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WWW.MY-SUBS.CO
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After the first time
that Mr. Dahmer killed,
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he then went for nine years
without killing.
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But then after this hiatus,
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he wakes up in the Ambassador Hotel
with a dead body next to him.
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He then had what I'd refer to
as a religious conversion in reverse.
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He began to think,
"Maybe there's a devil."
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"Maybe it's my destiny
to carry out the work of the devil."
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He began engaging
in all kinds of bizarre incantations.
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He began relating to parts of movies
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that seemed to suggest
there were evil forces out there.
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Return of the Jedi
was one of them.
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He really identified with the Emperor.
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He wanted like that mind control.
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He had those, you know, yellow eyes.
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So Jeff found some place where he could
get contacts that were yellow eyes.
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And so before he would go out at night,
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he would put the contacts in.
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He had to get himself charged up
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by trying to emulate
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a devil or evil person
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to fulfill his fantasies.
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People go to
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these gory horror movies to...
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to get a glimpse
of what... of what they show in the movies.
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The only difference is
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I did it for real.
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My relationship with Jeff
grew over time.
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As we went on,
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I got to know different facets of him.
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There was a lot of conflict within him.
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He went a very long time
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where he didn't commit any murders.
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But after he met Steven Tuomi,
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his control over the issue was gone.
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And that's a slippery slope.
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So at what point in time
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did you totally give in
to these feelings altogether
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and not try and change anything?
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After the Ambassador.
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That really got things in full swing.
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Eventually, he got to a point
where he went over the cliff.
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And there's no coming back.
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And four years later,
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that reckless behavior
is what ultimately led to his arrest.
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The Dahmer case is
something we had never seen in Milwaukee.
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It was an unreal moment
in my reporting career.
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That night back in July of '91,
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on the 22nd,
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Milwaukee police officers
were on their nightly tour of duty.
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They came outside of...
of Dahmer's apartment
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just down the street in their cruiser.
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And that's when
Tracy Edwards approached them.
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Tracy Edwards was wearing boxer shorts,
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and a handcuff hanging down on his wrist.
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So the officers were talking to him,
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and he started to share
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this kind of fantastical story
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about where he had just been.
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About this weird white dude
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that he had just had contact with.
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Dahmer chose his victims
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by a certain body structure.
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He would offer them money,
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and they would let Dahmer
take photos of them.
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But he'd say,
"You have to come to my apartment."
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That night, Tracy Edwards agreed
to come over to Dahmer's apartment.
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Tracy, first of all,
he's a very nice fella,
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and he was very, very street-smart.
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And he told us about
how Jeffrey was acting that night.
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And he'd suddenly realized
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that he wasn't going there
for photography.
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He was going there for something worse.
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When they were in the bedroom,
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Dahmer slapped one cuff on him,
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and Edwards moved
so he couldn't get the other cuff on him.
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And Jeffrey put on
that Exorcist III movie.
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Dahmer was starting to get into the movie.
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So he wasn't concerned
about the other cuff.
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He started this crazy motion,
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sitting and rocking
back and forth in a chair,
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and making these strange noises,
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and talking like in tongues.
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Tracy started acting
like they were buddies,
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'cause he knew he had to get away
or he was gonna get killed.
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I told him I gotta go to the bathroom.
As I was walking past the guy, I hit him.
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Then I ran for the door,
and God had to be with me, right?
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'Cause he had, like,
eight different locks on that,
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and I just picked the right lock
out of all of them.
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Tracy flagged down
a Milwaukee police squad.
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At first, he just wanted the handcuff off.
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I don't think he wanted
to give a lot of information
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as to how the handcuff was put on him.
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Because it was different handcuffs
than Milwaukee police used,
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their keys actually
didn't even work in it.
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So they went back to the apartment,
both to get a handcuff key,
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and also to investigate.
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When Dahmer answered the door,
he was intoxicated.
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He allowed the officers in.
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The officers checked the bedroom,
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found a knife under the bed
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that Dahmer threatened Tracy Edwards with.
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Tracy Edwards had made
the comment
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about Dahmer saying that there was
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a head or heads in the refrigerator.
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The officer opened it
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and saw the head in the refrigerator
with the head looking up,
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and he screamed.
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He literally screamed.
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He eventually retired,
kept dreaming about it.
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He couldn't handle it.
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Dahmer was taken into custody.
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He was taken down to police headquarters.
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When I arrived at the scene
and met the night shift lieutenant,
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Roosevelt Harrell, he was just shaking
his head and gave me a briefing
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how unbelievable it was.
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It's a very, very small apartment,
but a tremendous amount of evidence.
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The scene itself was gruesome.
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The tools that were at the apartment
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were hacksaws, screwdrivers,
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other tools that he would use
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while he was dissecting the victims.
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I thought it was gonna be a routine scene,
and when I arrived,
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the, uh, law enforcement officer
took me into Dahmer's apartment.
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Forensic pathologists
are used to seeing trauma,
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but this was something different.
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Looking around the room, you could tell
people had fear on their face.
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And in the years that have passed,
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I have come to believe
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that that is a time
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that I actually encountered evil.
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And I can't describe it,
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but it is a feeling of human depravity.
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As we went through
these various drawers and containers,
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my feeling is that
I was not doing a crime scene,
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but I was dismantling Dahmer's museum.
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It was obvious that Dahmer had collected
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some of the body parts
from the individuals that he had killed.
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Desiccated genitals, you know, human hair.
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We found plastic bags
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that contained tissue.
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I was able to identify
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a human heart,
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and other types of skeletal muscle tissue.
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And then, in that bedroom,
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there was three intact skeletons
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that had been decapitated.
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And 11 human skulls.
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Then it all of a sudden hit me.
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"We have a serial killer in Milwaukee."
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It was just so extreme.
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It was almost unbelievable.
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But you knew it was believable
because we had all the evidence there.
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When I was in the bedroom,
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I noticed this large, plastic blue vat.
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And as I moved it and shook it,
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there was a sloshing of liquid,
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as well as some heavy weight.
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So I asked to have the HAZMAT team come in
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and remove that
in case there was any chemicals
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or other harmful materials
that were there.
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Early the next morning,
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I headed to the police headquarters
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and got a rundown on
what Dahmer had been saying.
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And so then we started
to go through the time frame.
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That started what was many weeks,
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in fact, uh, months of investigation.
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His attorney would be there and say,
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"Jeffrey,
I'm gonna advise you not to talk."
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And every day he would sign
a waiver saying, "No, I wanna talk."
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We were in the jail,
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and he was just going through each of them
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as he could remember, going back in time.
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I always kept my feelings
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completely to myself.
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And, uh, so this is a sort
of learning experience for me.
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It feels like
you've been open with me.
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Mm-hmm.
It gets easier as you practice.
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Can you answer for me what
was it that caused you to wanna kill them?
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The underlying force, I think,
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was obviously a warped sexual drive.
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Just a constant feeling of emptiness,
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and not being able to find
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anything in life that really gave me
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a sense of hap... happiness,
peace, or fulfillment.
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I was always searching for something more.
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One night I went out,
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and I met this... I guess he's Indian.
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And he was standing there.
Said he was waiting for the bus.
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Do you remember what his name was?
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No, I don't.
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In January of 1988,
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Jeffrey Dahmer, while living
at his grandma's house, went out,
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and he met James Doxtator, who was 14.
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He was in front of a gay bar
at the bus stop.
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Dahmer asked him to come back
to his grandmother's house with him.
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Doxtator named his price,
which was $50 for sex.
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- Where was Grandma?
- She was upstairs, sound asleep.
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I asked him, "How late can you stay?"
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And he said,
"Uh, not later than early morning."
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And it was already
approaching early morning.
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Okay.
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What was going through your mind?
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I just...
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...wanted to keep him. I guess
that's the best way to describe it.
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He would mix the potions
that would render the person asleep.
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and use the sleeping pills.
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He would give them five or seven of them
in a coffee drink.
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Maybe... maybe with some alcohol
put in there.
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My thoughts obviously weren't, uh...
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the thoughts of a sane person at the time.
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Uh, I would've rather he'd stayed alive,
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but strangling seemed
to be the way to keep him.
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He would kill somebody.
The body would be upstairs in the bedroom.
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The grandmother would wake up,
and Jeffrey would come down
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and have breakfast with her.
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The body's upstairs in the bedroom.
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Jeffrey would chitchat
with his grandmother
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and send her off to church.
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There's just a total detachment.
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He kept the corpse of Doxtator
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in his grandmother's fruit cellar
for about a week.
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And when alone in the house
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would bring out the body
and make sexual use of it.
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What corpses, mannequins,
and unconscious people
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all have in common
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is they don't make demands,
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they don't complain,
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and they don't leave.
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For Dahmer, that's the big one.
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There's no person
I've ever known of
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that was as lonely a human being
as Jeffrey Dahmer.
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I'd say,
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"Jeffrey, do you have any friends?"
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"No."
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"Did you ever go to a movie with a guy?"
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"No."
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"Do you ever go to a party?" "No."
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He had no friends,
so he wasn't talking to anybody.
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All I got was a picture
of a shell of a human being.
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He had no sense about anything
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other than satisfying this desire
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to have sex with a dead
or an unconscious human being.
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This whole situation has forced me
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at how I've lived my life.
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You never saw that at the time?
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I may have
seen it. I chose to ignore it, bury it,
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submerge it under the compulsion
that was driving me.
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Jeffrey was very intellectually curious
about anatomy.
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The interest occurred very young,
even when he was in third or fourth grade.
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When Jeff and I were young,
we would often go hiking in the woods.
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And we'd often come across
bones in the ground,
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and he just took a particular interest
253
00:16:10,511 --> 00:16:12,680
in some of the anatomy of these animals.
254
00:16:14,014 --> 00:16:18,227
He would spend time
out in this little shack in the yard,
255
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:20,562
where he collected animals.
256
00:16:21,897 --> 00:16:24,233
And that garden shed
was at one point
257
00:16:24,316 --> 00:16:26,860
used to hold a bone collection.
258
00:16:27,736 --> 00:16:30,280
Squirrel bones or rabbit bones,
259
00:16:30,364 --> 00:16:33,200
or whatever you find out in the woods.
260
00:16:33,283 --> 00:16:37,037
He had it all nicely displayed
on some building tables in this shed.
261
00:16:37,621 --> 00:16:40,207
He'd already cleaned off
any flesh that was on them.
262
00:16:40,290 --> 00:16:43,168
Personally, it was nothing that I was
interested in collecting myself.
263
00:16:43,252 --> 00:16:45,129
Jeff found it interesting.
264
00:16:45,713 --> 00:16:48,132
What he was interested in
at that age
265
00:16:48,215 --> 00:16:51,969
was more along the lines
of amateur taxidermy.
266
00:16:52,594 --> 00:16:54,513
But in the process of that,
267
00:16:55,180 --> 00:16:56,598
it happened to him
268
00:16:56,682 --> 00:16:59,476
that he became interested
269
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,478
in the internal organs.
270
00:17:03,564 --> 00:17:06,244
It was a morbid interest, obviously.
271
00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:08,610
All right.
And what did you start with?
272
00:17:09,987 --> 00:17:12,197
Just, uh, roadkill,
273
00:17:12,281 --> 00:17:13,741
dogs,
274
00:17:13,824 --> 00:17:15,409
uh, possums.
275
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:18,996
He certainly had a fascination
with cutting open the animals,
276
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:20,956
wanting to look at the insides.
277
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,542
You know, see how everything laid out.
278
00:17:24,293 --> 00:17:30,507
In ninth grade, I dissected a baby pig.
279
00:17:30,591 --> 00:17:32,926
After we were done with dissection,
280
00:17:33,010 --> 00:17:34,762
took the pig's head home
281
00:17:34,845 --> 00:17:36,555
and took the flesh off,
282
00:17:37,222 --> 00:17:39,975
and kept the skull for a while.
283
00:17:40,059 --> 00:17:41,477
Why, I don't know.
284
00:17:43,020 --> 00:17:45,939
He wouldn't kill any animals.
He would find dead animals,
285
00:17:46,023 --> 00:17:47,107
and he would do it.
286
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:50,861
This was all part of his fascination
287
00:17:50,944 --> 00:17:52,321
with a dead body.
288
00:17:55,115 --> 00:17:56,992
It's all that
he was interested in.
289
00:17:57,868 --> 00:17:59,578
It became an obsession for him.
290
00:18:00,496 --> 00:18:04,291
He had this wall
between himself and other people.
291
00:18:04,374 --> 00:18:06,085
No emotionality at all.
292
00:18:06,168 --> 00:18:09,838
Somebody who is unable
to attach himself to other people.
293
00:18:11,507 --> 00:18:14,218
I'm not even sure whether or not
294
00:18:14,301 --> 00:18:16,053
I was capable of a real...
295
00:18:16,887 --> 00:18:19,223
sense of love, even back then.
296
00:18:20,182 --> 00:18:21,642
I ain't sure if I am now.
297
00:18:22,226 --> 00:18:25,395
You don't know how to love.
Is that what you're saying?
298
00:18:25,479 --> 00:18:26,855
I'm not sure I do, no.
299
00:18:26,939 --> 00:18:30,567
A person who can love,
I don't think would do these things.
300
00:18:41,662 --> 00:18:44,456
The morning after
Dahmer had been arrested,
301
00:18:44,540 --> 00:18:46,125
the sun was rising,
302
00:18:46,208 --> 00:18:48,627
the nighttime police officers
were heading off,
303
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:50,796
and the daytime officers were coming on.
304
00:18:54,925 --> 00:18:58,220
The alley behind Dahmer's apartment
was crowded now
305
00:18:58,303 --> 00:19:01,140
with some media people,
but mostly with residents
306
00:19:01,223 --> 00:19:03,976
who'd been evacuated
from Dahmer's apartment building.
307
00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:09,523
It's important for a crime reporter
to have connections,
308
00:19:09,606 --> 00:19:11,900
the inside scoop in a police department.
309
00:19:12,568 --> 00:19:15,028
And one of my friends
in the police department
310
00:19:15,112 --> 00:19:16,738
told me Dahmer's name.
311
00:19:17,239 --> 00:19:19,324
And that was not public at the time.
312
00:19:20,325 --> 00:19:22,870
I wanted to get away from the crime scene
313
00:19:22,953 --> 00:19:26,957
to the computer system
at the district attorney's office.
314
00:19:28,375 --> 00:19:30,127
In that computer system,
315
00:19:30,210 --> 00:19:33,380
I could type in Dahmer's name
and find out his history.
316
00:19:34,423 --> 00:19:37,885
And sure enough, there's a case,
a felony case, of sexual assault.
317
00:19:39,428 --> 00:19:43,098
I was able to go through the records
and find out he was represented
318
00:19:43,182 --> 00:19:45,851
in that case
by an attorney named Gerry Boyle.
319
00:19:46,393 --> 00:19:49,396
Dahmer had been a known commodity
to the police department.
320
00:19:57,905 --> 00:20:01,200
I met Dahmer
for the first time in 1988.
321
00:20:02,492 --> 00:20:07,289
He had been charged
with sexual misconduct with a young boy.
322
00:20:08,457 --> 00:20:11,919
Saw this, uh, Eurasian guy
323
00:20:12,002 --> 00:20:15,047
walking down the street in the afternoon.
324
00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:18,967
Asked him if he wanted to make
some money, $50. He said, "Yes."
325
00:20:19,676 --> 00:20:21,511
"For pictures." We went back.
326
00:20:23,764 --> 00:20:25,599
He stripped down to his underwear.
327
00:20:26,266 --> 00:20:28,101
I took two pictures of him,
328
00:20:28,185 --> 00:20:30,145
one on the bed
and one standing up, I think.
329
00:20:31,563 --> 00:20:35,484
And I was drinking some coffee
with Irish Cream Mist in it.
330
00:20:35,984 --> 00:20:39,071
And I gave him some,
and it had sleeping pills in it.
331
00:20:39,655 --> 00:20:41,990
And, uh, he drank some.
332
00:20:42,991 --> 00:20:46,370
The whole time, he stayed there
maybe an hour at the most.
333
00:20:47,621 --> 00:20:50,540
Said he had to be going.
I paid him the $50.
334
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:53,043
And he left.
335
00:20:56,463 --> 00:20:58,048
Why did you let him go?
336
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,719
Because I had no knife.
I had no intention of... of injuring him.
337
00:21:02,803 --> 00:21:05,097
I just wanted to stay with him
338
00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:07,391
and... and, uh, lay with him for a while.
339
00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:14,273
He told me he liked
listening to people's stomach.
340
00:21:14,356 --> 00:21:16,400
Then I was on the bed still,
341
00:21:16,483 --> 00:21:19,987
and then he came more like leaning down,
and then he start...
342
00:21:20,696 --> 00:21:22,614
He put his ears to my stomach.
343
00:21:24,074 --> 00:21:25,701
The boy was able to escape.
344
00:21:25,784 --> 00:21:28,161
Got to his home in a drugged condition.
345
00:21:28,245 --> 00:21:29,955
His parents were quite concerned.
346
00:21:30,038 --> 00:21:32,319
Eventually, took him to the hospital
and called the police
347
00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:34,209
because he appeared to be drugged.
348
00:21:36,712 --> 00:21:40,382
Our office prosecuted Dahmer
for the boy's victimization.
349
00:21:41,341 --> 00:21:45,220
Dahmer was convicted of drugging
and sexual enticement of the youngster.
350
00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:49,808
At the time,
Dahmer was brought to my attention,
351
00:21:49,891 --> 00:21:52,519
I was chief psychologist
352
00:21:52,602 --> 00:21:55,147
for Department of Corrections,
Milwaukee region.
353
00:21:57,274 --> 00:21:59,901
While he was awaiting sentencing,
354
00:22:00,402 --> 00:22:03,780
I said I would just do a brief evaluation
355
00:22:04,448 --> 00:22:08,118
to get a sense of the status
of what we were working with.
356
00:22:09,870 --> 00:22:15,834
Jeffrey was guarded, angry,
and uncooperative from the start,
357
00:22:15,917 --> 00:22:17,919
showing up a half hour late,
358
00:22:18,003 --> 00:22:20,547
hoping that I wouldn't
have waited for him.
359
00:22:21,256 --> 00:22:23,967
He would just stare at me,
360
00:22:24,051 --> 00:22:27,596
uh, with a very cold, icy, angry stare
361
00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:29,723
for the entire interview.
362
00:22:30,891 --> 00:22:34,436
But he still gave
a lot of very important information,
363
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:36,521
just based on his behavior.
364
00:22:37,814 --> 00:22:39,441
His personality pattern
365
00:22:39,524 --> 00:22:43,070
was of an individual who uses people,
366
00:22:43,987 --> 00:22:49,117
sees them as objects,
does not have any empathy.
367
00:22:49,701 --> 00:22:54,331
My recommendation said that this person
is too dangerous to be in the community.
368
00:22:54,414 --> 00:22:57,042
This person should be incarcerated
at this point.
369
00:22:58,377 --> 00:23:02,756
The judge, in the end,
listened to Jeffrey's speech,
370
00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:05,342
which was quite moving.
371
00:23:06,551 --> 00:23:10,680
He basically in a nutshell said,
"Oh, this is terrible."
372
00:23:10,764 --> 00:23:14,017
"Uh, I'm sorry.
It's never going to happen again."
373
00:23:15,727 --> 00:23:18,188
His sentence was a year work release.
374
00:23:19,981 --> 00:23:22,150
Work release in our state is a program
375
00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:24,486
where you can work during the day
the regular work hours,
376
00:23:24,569 --> 00:23:26,769
and then you're in county jail
while you're not working.
377
00:23:26,822 --> 00:23:30,325
Jeffrey Dahmer was employed
at the Ambrosia chocolate factory.
378
00:23:35,163 --> 00:23:38,125
Our office took the position said
he should be sentenced for six years.
379
00:23:38,208 --> 00:23:40,210
So we disagreed with the judge on that.
380
00:23:41,628 --> 00:23:45,465
I thought I was pretty aware of people
that I couldn't be fooled.
381
00:23:45,549 --> 00:23:47,759
He plenty fooled me, I'll tell ya.
382
00:23:48,677 --> 00:23:50,095
He fooled everyone.
383
00:23:51,054 --> 00:23:53,181
When we look
at the Jeffrey Dahmer case,
384
00:23:53,265 --> 00:23:56,685
there are a number of failures
by the system,
385
00:23:57,477 --> 00:23:59,271
whether it's probation and parole,
386
00:23:59,354 --> 00:24:02,399
whether it's law enforcement,
or whether it's the courts,
387
00:24:02,482 --> 00:24:06,069
that failed to protect the victims.
388
00:24:06,736 --> 00:24:10,198
The boy was only 13 years old
when this happened.
389
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:12,617
Thirteen years old.
390
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,539
There was no way of really knowing
391
00:24:18,165 --> 00:24:21,376
that he had already murdered people.
392
00:24:23,670 --> 00:24:26,298
But when I initially heard
393
00:24:26,381 --> 00:24:28,091
what the judge had done,
394
00:24:28,592 --> 00:24:32,888
my sense was, "Oh okay.
Well, we're gonna get him back."
395
00:24:33,597 --> 00:24:36,725
"There's no way
we're not gonna see him again."
396
00:24:40,395 --> 00:24:43,523
He had months
between the time he was convicted,
397
00:24:43,607 --> 00:24:46,276
and the time he would start
to serve his sentence.
398
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,445
It was in that interval
399
00:24:48,528 --> 00:24:51,615
that he continued cruising gay bars
400
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,828
and was doing one-night hookups.
401
00:24:57,579 --> 00:25:00,457
- Still living at Grandma's?
- Right.
402
00:25:00,540 --> 00:25:01,540
Okay.
403
00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:11,343
Two months before I was to go
into the work release center,
404
00:25:14,304 --> 00:25:16,598
it was closing time at La Cage.
405
00:25:17,098 --> 00:25:18,975
Was it one of your regular bars?
406
00:25:20,352 --> 00:25:24,105
And struck up a conversation
with this, uh, Black guy.
407
00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:28,443
- What was his name?
- I think his name was Tony.
408
00:25:28,527 --> 00:25:29,945
I think.
409
00:25:30,028 --> 00:25:32,572
That's what he told me
his name was anyway.
410
00:25:32,656 --> 00:25:33,698
Tony.
411
00:25:40,872 --> 00:25:44,626
Tony Sears was about 23 or 24.
412
00:25:44,709 --> 00:25:46,711
Tony Sears was a model.
413
00:25:46,795 --> 00:25:48,505
He was very attractive,
414
00:25:49,089 --> 00:25:52,259
and he was always immaculately dressed.
415
00:25:52,342 --> 00:25:54,719
Had the most beautiful hair.
416
00:25:54,803 --> 00:25:57,389
Back in the day,
we called them Jheri curls.
417
00:25:58,265 --> 00:26:00,642
He was always upbeat,
always energetic.
418
00:26:01,685 --> 00:26:06,273
He was always out for an adventure,
always wanted to do something new.
419
00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:09,401
You just never knew
where your night was gonna go,
420
00:26:09,484 --> 00:26:11,778
but you knew
you were gonna have a good time.
421
00:26:12,988 --> 00:26:14,406
Tony did not have a car,
422
00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:16,783
and so I would go pick him up,
423
00:26:16,866 --> 00:26:18,952
and we would go out to the bars.
424
00:26:24,165 --> 00:26:26,251
So it was a typical Saturday night.
425
00:26:26,334 --> 00:26:28,044
I picked him up at his apartment.
426
00:26:29,170 --> 00:26:31,047
And we were barhopping.
427
00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:35,760
Some point through the evening,
we decided to go our separate ways.
428
00:26:36,845 --> 00:26:39,139
We had our agreement
that at the end of the night,
429
00:26:39,222 --> 00:26:41,182
we're gonna meet at this spot.
430
00:26:42,976 --> 00:26:44,102
So that's what we did.
431
00:26:47,355 --> 00:26:49,316
When the end of the evening came,
432
00:26:49,399 --> 00:26:52,736
we met up back right on the corner
that we always did.
433
00:26:54,696 --> 00:26:56,781
And he had this other guy with him.
434
00:26:59,034 --> 00:27:02,495
He wasn't over good-looking.
I wouldn't say he was ugly.
435
00:27:02,579 --> 00:27:04,372
He had just blond hair.
436
00:27:04,873 --> 00:27:06,708
Uh, he was wearing glasses.
437
00:27:08,126 --> 00:27:11,421
We just sat on the corner
and talked a bit about our evenings,
438
00:27:11,504 --> 00:27:14,674
who we bumped into, where we went.
That sort of thing.
439
00:27:15,717 --> 00:27:17,260
Tony wanted to go to breakfast
440
00:27:17,344 --> 00:27:20,722
'cause he always wanted to have fun,
never wanted the night to end.
441
00:27:22,724 --> 00:27:24,559
We had a really nice breakfast,
442
00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:27,145
and then we're dropping them off.
443
00:27:27,228 --> 00:27:29,105
He said it was at his house.
444
00:27:30,357 --> 00:27:33,044
He had a friend, a white man, with him.
445
00:27:33,068 --> 00:27:34,986
And his friend had a car.
446
00:27:35,695 --> 00:27:37,989
And then during the car ride,
447
00:27:38,073 --> 00:27:41,326
he's very affectionate,
apparently very drunk.
448
00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:43,620
And we drove
449
00:27:45,205 --> 00:27:46,956
to 57th and Lincoln.
450
00:27:48,375 --> 00:27:51,461
He had me drop them off
just at the corner.
451
00:27:53,338 --> 00:27:57,133
There was no specific house or anything.
It was literally an intersection.
452
00:27:57,926 --> 00:28:00,595
Then they hopped out.
I said goodbye to Tony
453
00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:03,264
and reminded him
that if he needed a ride to call me
454
00:28:03,348 --> 00:28:05,225
before such and such a time.
455
00:28:05,308 --> 00:28:07,894
They just walked up the street,
and I drove off.
456
00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:16,295
When you did go out that night, though,
457
00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:19,364
and you met this guy,
and you decided he seemed a nice guy.
458
00:28:19,447 --> 00:28:20,323
Hmm.
459
00:28:20,407 --> 00:28:23,618
What came into your mind
that you wanted to ask him back?
460
00:28:23,702 --> 00:28:27,872
Did you become fearful in any way
that it was gonna happen again?
461
00:28:28,957 --> 00:28:32,794
Hm. No. I... I thought that
it would just be a regular night.
462
00:28:33,503 --> 00:28:34,671
I brought him back.
463
00:28:34,754 --> 00:28:37,465
My judgment isn't always so good
when I'm drinking,
464
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:39,134
especially when I drink a lot.
465
00:28:39,884 --> 00:28:42,971
Jeffrey brought Tony Sears
to his grandmother's house
466
00:28:43,054 --> 00:28:45,473
in West Allis,
where he was residing at the time.
467
00:28:48,393 --> 00:28:50,473
And we went up to the bedroom
468
00:28:50,895 --> 00:28:52,605
and laid around.
469
00:28:53,314 --> 00:28:55,233
He was making some comments
470
00:28:55,316 --> 00:28:58,153
about it getting to be early,
and he'd have to leave.
471
00:28:59,821 --> 00:29:03,450
I went down and made a cup of coffee
472
00:29:03,533 --> 00:29:04,826
with the pills.
473
00:29:08,913 --> 00:29:10,165
He fell asleep,
474
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:14,335
and that's when I strangled him.
475
00:29:16,504 --> 00:29:18,423
His grandmother slept through it,
had no idea.
476
00:29:20,884 --> 00:29:23,470
His wanting to have a companion
477
00:29:23,553 --> 00:29:25,305
but not wanting them to leave
478
00:29:25,805 --> 00:29:28,266
was very big.
It was very powerful for him.
479
00:29:30,685 --> 00:29:33,730
Did it ever
get into your mind at that time
480
00:29:33,813 --> 00:29:36,900
that in fact, you had lost him
rather than keeping him?
481
00:29:37,484 --> 00:29:38,484
Hmm.
482
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:42,572
I suppose that that realization
did hit me, yeah, but...
483
00:29:42,655 --> 00:29:44,741
- When?
- After they were dead.
484
00:29:44,824 --> 00:29:46,159
How did that feel?
485
00:29:46,910 --> 00:29:49,454
Unfulfilling.
It felt like a waste.
486
00:29:50,872 --> 00:29:53,833
He always had a way that he found
487
00:29:53,917 --> 00:29:55,919
to dispose of the bodies.
488
00:29:56,419 --> 00:29:58,898
He had a nice-looking face, so I...
489
00:29:58,922 --> 00:30:01,216
With the head, I cut that off,
490
00:30:01,758 --> 00:30:04,886
put it in a large, white barrel,
491
00:30:04,969 --> 00:30:06,846
filled it up with acetone,
492
00:30:07,847 --> 00:30:09,849
and that preserved the head.
493
00:30:10,642 --> 00:30:12,268
Why did you do that this time?
494
00:30:12,352 --> 00:30:16,189
Well, just branching out
into different variations.
495
00:30:21,236 --> 00:30:24,405
He kept the full head, not just the skull,
496
00:30:24,489 --> 00:30:26,574
and he also kept his genitals.
497
00:30:27,283 --> 00:30:30,370
And he put them in an airtight container.
498
00:30:31,037 --> 00:30:33,581
And he put it in his locker
499
00:30:33,665 --> 00:30:35,959
at the chocolate plant where he worked.
500
00:30:36,459 --> 00:30:37,752
Most of this time,
501
00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:40,922
Dahmer was sitting
in a correctional institution,
502
00:30:41,005 --> 00:30:44,384
at least at night,
and was on work release.
503
00:30:44,467 --> 00:30:47,345
This was safer than having it
at Grandma's house,
504
00:30:47,428 --> 00:30:49,973
where somebody could stumble upon it.
505
00:30:52,350 --> 00:30:54,990
You kept
the genitals, and you kept the head?
506
00:30:55,019 --> 00:30:55,854
Mm-hmm.
507
00:30:55,937 --> 00:30:58,356
Did you still feel
as though you had your companion?
508
00:30:59,065 --> 00:31:02,026
This all is so bizarre
sounding now to me.
509
00:31:06,322 --> 00:31:07,740
You think you loved Tony?
510
00:31:07,824 --> 00:31:11,953
Yeah, I could say that if I knew
how to love, I would have loved him.
511
00:31:12,036 --> 00:31:15,039
It was a matter of trying
to preserve what I had left of him.
512
00:31:15,123 --> 00:31:17,101
- What were you hoping for?
- Um...
513
00:31:17,125 --> 00:31:20,587
I hoped he would just dry out
and stay looking like he did in life,
514
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:23,006
but it didn't work out that way.
515
00:31:23,089 --> 00:31:27,510
By that time, it was fairly obvious
that it didn't look like Tony anymore.
516
00:31:27,594 --> 00:31:30,221
- It was just all shriveled up.
- Okay.
517
00:31:31,764 --> 00:31:33,433
But did it still excite you?
518
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,565
No, not as much.
The excitement was wearing off.
519
00:31:50,366 --> 00:31:53,453
I was contacted by Tony's sister.
520
00:31:53,536 --> 00:31:56,956
They called and just asked
if I'd heard anything from Tony.
521
00:31:57,457 --> 00:32:00,126
And I told them,
I said, "No. We were out on Saturday."
522
00:32:00,209 --> 00:32:03,171
"I haven't heard from him."
And that was kind of our conversation.
523
00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:06,090
I would say probably a day or two later,
524
00:32:06,174 --> 00:32:09,719
I got another call that they wanted
to file a missing persons report.
525
00:32:11,304 --> 00:32:13,473
Because they hadn't heard anything at all.
526
00:32:17,185 --> 00:32:20,104
In the beginning,
I was the... the prime suspect
527
00:32:20,188 --> 00:32:22,607
for the reason that I was
the last person to see Tony alive.
528
00:32:25,151 --> 00:32:28,196
Tony's family would ask me things like,
529
00:32:28,905 --> 00:32:31,199
"Are you giving us all the details?"
530
00:32:31,282 --> 00:32:33,826
"Does this other person really exist?"
531
00:32:33,910 --> 00:32:35,828
"Or were you just with Tony?"
532
00:32:35,912 --> 00:32:39,916
It was questions like that that started
to take a turn with the family.
533
00:32:42,168 --> 00:32:45,088
I also had a lot of friends
that I had for quite some time
534
00:32:45,171 --> 00:32:47,298
that started thinking the same thing.
535
00:32:47,382 --> 00:32:50,301
That, you know,
maybe I had done something to Tony.
536
00:32:51,427 --> 00:32:54,722
Then the police came back
and started coming to visit me,
537
00:32:54,806 --> 00:32:56,641
and starting asking questions.
538
00:32:56,724 --> 00:33:01,479
More about what happened that night,
where we went, where he was dropped off.
539
00:33:02,939 --> 00:33:06,025
One of the things that I was forced to do
540
00:33:06,109 --> 00:33:07,694
during the investigation
541
00:33:08,194 --> 00:33:10,780
was go with police officers
542
00:33:11,447 --> 00:33:13,199
to the different bars
543
00:33:13,282 --> 00:33:15,243
to see if I could recognize
544
00:33:15,326 --> 00:33:18,162
who this blond mystery person was.
545
00:33:20,915 --> 00:33:24,794
At that time, the relationship
between the gay community and the police
546
00:33:24,877 --> 00:33:26,421
was not the greatest at all.
547
00:33:26,504 --> 00:33:30,967
I thought for sure they would send
at least plain-clothed officers.
548
00:33:31,050 --> 00:33:34,220
They were in full uniform.
Guns, hats, badges.
549
00:33:34,303 --> 00:33:35,763
You know, he whole thing.
550
00:33:37,765 --> 00:33:40,226
I actually had some of the bar owners
ask me,
551
00:33:40,309 --> 00:33:43,104
"You really don't need
to come back here," type thing.
552
00:33:43,938 --> 00:33:47,275
The friends are all questioning
what's going on and what's happening.
553
00:33:47,358 --> 00:33:50,486
So at... at some point through all that,
554
00:33:50,570 --> 00:33:54,782
um, I decided I had to kind of just
get a fresh start.
555
00:33:56,409 --> 00:33:59,495
I basically left
my life in Milwaukee behind
556
00:33:59,579 --> 00:34:01,289
and moved out of the city.
557
00:34:04,375 --> 00:34:05,960
I really cared for Tony.
558
00:34:07,211 --> 00:34:08,921
Tony was a great guy.
559
00:34:09,005 --> 00:34:12,550
You know, I figured he and I were gonna
be friends for quite some time,
560
00:34:13,051 --> 00:34:14,052
and, um...
561
00:34:14,969 --> 00:34:16,054
I'm sorry.
562
00:34:19,265 --> 00:34:21,184
You know, there's a lot of "what-ifs."
563
00:34:25,188 --> 00:34:26,814
Just the fact that
564
00:34:27,899 --> 00:34:30,485
some of my actions
that I did that evening...
565
00:34:31,194 --> 00:34:32,194
Um...
566
00:34:34,655 --> 00:34:36,449
I helped this happen to Tony.
567
00:34:37,533 --> 00:34:40,745
You know, I kinda wish...
I wish could take it all back
568
00:34:40,828 --> 00:34:43,456
and make the evening end
in a different way.
569
00:34:57,386 --> 00:34:59,806
While Jeff Dahmer remains
in police custody,
570
00:34:59,889 --> 00:35:02,266
held on multiple homicide charges,
571
00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:05,269
the DA's office has already started
its investigation
572
00:35:05,353 --> 00:35:08,940
into the formal case
against the alleged murderer.
573
00:35:10,024 --> 00:35:12,693
A few days after he was arrested,
574
00:35:12,777 --> 00:35:16,697
my boss, Gerry Boyle, wanted someone
to walk through the apartment.
575
00:35:16,781 --> 00:35:20,785
He just wanted to make sure that
we were watching what they were doing.
576
00:35:21,828 --> 00:35:23,955
And I was nominated as such.
577
00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:28,793
Walking up to the door to his apartment
578
00:35:28,876 --> 00:35:30,378
and going inside,
579
00:35:30,461 --> 00:35:34,465
what went through my mind was,
"How could anybody ever live in here?"
580
00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:39,137
The mattress was still there,
sopping in blood.
581
00:35:40,221 --> 00:35:42,723
The carpeting, uh, bloodstains.
582
00:35:43,224 --> 00:35:44,976
Wall, bloodstains.
583
00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:50,481
The odor in there
was a culmination of death,
584
00:35:50,565 --> 00:35:52,817
with the humidity, the blood.
585
00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:53,985
It was awful.
586
00:35:55,528 --> 00:35:57,572
I had to leave and luckily,
587
00:35:57,655 --> 00:35:59,407
at the end of the hallway
588
00:35:59,490 --> 00:36:01,826
was a fire exit with a staircase,
589
00:36:01,909 --> 00:36:04,162
so I could run out there and, um...
590
00:36:05,288 --> 00:36:07,081
the gagging turned into throwing up.
591
00:36:08,624 --> 00:36:10,126
I was the only woman.
592
00:36:10,626 --> 00:36:12,503
The male officers that were there,
593
00:36:12,587 --> 00:36:14,881
they all stood there,
and they all laughed.
594
00:36:14,964 --> 00:36:16,966
They're like, "How you doing on this now?"
595
00:36:17,049 --> 00:36:19,594
"You wanted to come to a crime scene.
This is what we get."
596
00:36:21,304 --> 00:36:22,638
It was, um...
597
00:36:23,389 --> 00:36:24,974
terrifying to see
598
00:36:25,057 --> 00:36:26,934
that this was real.
599
00:36:29,395 --> 00:36:30,897
Who knows? At that point,
600
00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:34,483
you know, maybe all of this was a facade
and him being polite to me.
601
00:36:34,567 --> 00:36:36,569
And I started to think about that.
602
00:36:37,236 --> 00:36:39,238
What he couldn't control,
603
00:36:39,322 --> 00:36:41,199
his own little demon inside,
604
00:36:41,282 --> 00:36:43,951
is what we actually saw in his apartment.
605
00:36:58,674 --> 00:37:01,111
After I got out
of the work release center,
606
00:37:01,135 --> 00:37:04,055
I moved out of Grandma's
and into this apartment.
607
00:37:05,556 --> 00:37:08,935
While I was looking for an apartment
that looked halfway decent,
608
00:37:10,186 --> 00:37:13,606
I saw the Oxford Apartments,
and, uh walked in.
609
00:37:13,689 --> 00:37:16,525
They had a "for rent" sign in front.
610
00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:18,986
And, uh, I moved in
611
00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:20,863
in May of '90, I guess.
612
00:37:22,365 --> 00:37:24,909
Had the movers bring my TV, and uh...
613
00:37:25,868 --> 00:37:30,748
and a big chest that I had
with all my possessions in it.
614
00:37:30,831 --> 00:37:32,511
Things you had at Grandma's house?
615
00:37:32,541 --> 00:37:35,962
Mm-hmm.
In my mind, I had my own place,
616
00:37:36,045 --> 00:37:38,089
someplace nice and private
617
00:37:38,172 --> 00:37:40,967
where I could just take someone back,
618
00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:43,678
drug them, and then strangle them.
619
00:37:52,186 --> 00:37:55,398
Milwaukee has always been
one of those types of cities
620
00:37:55,481 --> 00:37:57,525
where it's very hypersegregated.
621
00:37:59,652 --> 00:38:02,113
Blacks lived on one side of the town,
622
00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:05,574
while whites lived on the other side
of the town and in the suburbs.
623
00:38:06,993 --> 00:38:11,372
And Dahmer lived in this apartment complex
called the Oxford Apartments,
624
00:38:12,498 --> 00:38:16,544
but it was a lot of African Americans
who lived in that building.
625
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:24,802
The first time that I met Jeff
626
00:38:26,178 --> 00:38:30,266
we had been living there
for maybe... maybe two weeks or so.
627
00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:34,270
And he made it known to me
628
00:38:34,353 --> 00:38:37,273
that he had just moved from West Allis,
629
00:38:37,356 --> 00:38:40,067
and that he had broken up
with his girlfriend.
630
00:38:41,694 --> 00:38:43,404
And I took a liking to him
631
00:38:43,988 --> 00:38:46,282
because he looked so clean-cut.
632
00:38:47,033 --> 00:38:48,534
He looked so mild.
633
00:38:49,535 --> 00:38:51,871
He looked like a young Clark Kent.
634
00:38:53,122 --> 00:38:56,876
He was the only single white male
in the building.
635
00:38:58,627 --> 00:39:02,298
I never thought it to be strange or weird
636
00:39:03,007 --> 00:39:04,383
that he was there.
637
00:39:04,467 --> 00:39:06,677
To me, he was just an average guy
638
00:39:07,345 --> 00:39:09,221
trying to keep his head above water.
639
00:39:10,931 --> 00:39:12,350
There was one time
640
00:39:13,059 --> 00:39:15,353
when I did try to introduce him
641
00:39:15,436 --> 00:39:16,645
to a lady.
642
00:39:18,314 --> 00:39:21,692
She lived downstairs,
and she had a crush on Jeff.
643
00:39:22,985 --> 00:39:24,862
And so she told me, she said,
644
00:39:24,945 --> 00:39:27,615
"Why don't you see
if your neighbor across the hall
645
00:39:27,698 --> 00:39:29,784
wanna come over and play cards with us?"
646
00:39:31,619 --> 00:39:33,496
So I went and knocked on his door.
647
00:39:34,455 --> 00:39:38,501
I said, "I'm over here playing cards.
Hey, man, I'm getting my butt kicked."
648
00:39:39,168 --> 00:39:40,669
"You know, by these women."
649
00:39:40,753 --> 00:39:44,131
"I could really use another guy
who would come and help me."
650
00:39:45,591 --> 00:39:48,677
And he straight out told me
that he didn't wanna come over.
651
00:39:49,428 --> 00:39:53,182
So I said, "Well, one of the women there,
she kind of like you."
652
00:39:53,265 --> 00:39:56,018
"And it'd be a chance
for you guys to talk."
653
00:39:57,728 --> 00:40:00,773
He flat-out told me
that he was not interested
654
00:40:00,856 --> 00:40:02,733
in talking to her.
655
00:40:02,817 --> 00:40:06,904
I thought, "Well, hey.
This guy must really, really be stuck on
656
00:40:06,987 --> 00:40:09,657
that other woman in West Allis."
657
00:40:11,951 --> 00:40:14,870
It didn't take very long for me to notice
658
00:40:14,954 --> 00:40:16,789
that Jeff was a loner,
659
00:40:16,872 --> 00:40:19,125
and that he kept to himself.
660
00:40:19,208 --> 00:40:22,753
And he... he wasn't a party type guy.
661
00:40:23,587 --> 00:40:25,548
- You and Timmy.
- That's right.
662
00:40:25,631 --> 00:40:27,191
- And who is this?
- Jeff.
663
00:40:27,216 --> 00:40:28,616
- That's cousin Jeff.
- Hey.
664
00:40:28,676 --> 00:40:29,510
Yes.
665
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:33,931
Jeffrey was able to fool people
666
00:40:34,014 --> 00:40:36,642
in situations where it was
critically important to do that.
667
00:40:40,187 --> 00:40:43,649
Looks like a bunch
of satisfied people sitting around here.
668
00:40:44,567 --> 00:40:46,944
Even with Grandma or his dad.
669
00:40:47,528 --> 00:40:50,698
Of course,
you woke up at what, eight this morning?
670
00:40:50,781 --> 00:40:55,578
Then you... you cleaned up your apartment
so you could show us what it looks like.
671
00:40:55,661 --> 00:40:58,122
Yeah, I want you to come over
if you feel like it.
672
00:40:58,205 --> 00:41:01,834
I haven't done any dusting or vacuuming.
I do that on Sundays.
673
00:41:03,169 --> 00:41:06,922
Dahmer could be an engaging person.
He enticed many people into his apartment.
674
00:41:09,300 --> 00:41:10,718
But they had no idea
675
00:41:10,801 --> 00:41:14,096
they were walking into a viper's nest
when they went to his apartment.
676
00:41:17,349 --> 00:41:20,561
Is this the first person
you took pictures of?
677
00:41:20,644 --> 00:41:21,896
Yeah, yeah.
678
00:41:22,730 --> 00:41:26,317
The nickname was "Cash D," I think.
I don't know his real name.
679
00:41:27,985 --> 00:41:31,363
What did you use to take
the pictures? You had a camera?
680
00:41:32,114 --> 00:41:35,159
It was a Polaroid.
A Polaroid camera.
681
00:41:36,702 --> 00:41:38,412
In Dahmer's apartment,
682
00:41:38,496 --> 00:41:41,290
there were a number of albums
that were present,
683
00:41:41,373 --> 00:41:46,337
and these were a series
of organized Polaroid photographs
684
00:41:46,420 --> 00:41:49,590
that depicted Dahmer's previous victims
685
00:41:50,132 --> 00:41:53,552
before, during, and after dissection.
686
00:41:54,845 --> 00:41:57,348
Jeffrey took the photos
687
00:41:57,431 --> 00:42:00,851
of individuals that he favored the most.
688
00:42:01,435 --> 00:42:05,231
He put them in different poses
because it would show the physique.
689
00:42:05,314 --> 00:42:08,484
There were various parts
of various individuals
690
00:42:08,567 --> 00:42:12,905
that he favored more than other ones,
and so he took photos of it.
691
00:42:14,323 --> 00:42:17,535
- How long did this last?
- About an hour.
692
00:42:17,618 --> 00:42:19,858
- Of just taking photographs?
- Mm-hmm.
693
00:42:21,163 --> 00:42:23,749
When I saw the Polaroids
that Jeffrey took,
694
00:42:23,832 --> 00:42:25,125
I... I was horrified.
695
00:42:25,834 --> 00:42:28,045
Some of them were very intense.
696
00:42:29,004 --> 00:42:31,757
To see people cut in real life,
697
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,637
it takes on a whole different, uh, scope,
a whole different level.
698
00:42:38,138 --> 00:42:39,640
I had nightmares with it.
699
00:42:42,017 --> 00:42:43,769
But I wanted to stay professional.
700
00:42:46,188 --> 00:42:49,942
I... I was just thinking, you know,
"How am I gonna get through this?"
701
00:42:51,068 --> 00:42:52,903
"I don't have anybody
to talk to about it."
702
00:42:54,822 --> 00:42:58,200
It just
felt like a waste to me to destroy someone
703
00:42:58,284 --> 00:43:01,078
that looked so nice.
704
00:43:01,161 --> 00:43:03,539
But by that time, I had no choice.
705
00:43:03,622 --> 00:43:04,957
He was dead,
706
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,210
and I had to find some way
to dispose of the remains.
707
00:43:10,296 --> 00:43:14,883
He now realized he had a different problem
than at he had at his grandmother's house
708
00:43:14,967 --> 00:43:17,386
because he wasn't gonna be able
to use a sledgehammer
709
00:43:17,469 --> 00:43:19,722
to break up bones in an apartment.
710
00:43:20,764 --> 00:43:22,766
A day or two later,
711
00:43:22,850 --> 00:43:27,104
I went out and bought
this large, 80-gallon kettle
712
00:43:27,855 --> 00:43:30,024
from one of the restaurant's supply.
713
00:43:31,108 --> 00:43:32,943
He could then boil
714
00:43:33,027 --> 00:43:35,404
what was left of the body.
715
00:43:36,572 --> 00:43:40,701
And this began
his more sophisticated production
716
00:43:40,784 --> 00:43:42,453
of body disposal.
717
00:43:44,330 --> 00:43:46,874
I mean, makes you sick
even talking about it,
718
00:43:46,957 --> 00:43:50,044
but he'd get rid of the...
the bones in acid.
719
00:43:50,586 --> 00:43:52,838
That's why you got a huge barrel?
720
00:43:52,921 --> 00:43:54,798
So you could put
the acid in for the bones?
721
00:43:55,299 --> 00:43:57,217
Yeah, that... It was
722
00:43:57,843 --> 00:43:59,637
a trash barrel. It's...
723
00:44:00,137 --> 00:44:02,890
So you put the bones in there,
and it would just...
724
00:44:02,973 --> 00:44:05,059
Turn into a slush
725
00:44:05,142 --> 00:44:08,270
that then could be
scooped out into the toilet
726
00:44:08,354 --> 00:44:09,521
and flushed down.
727
00:44:10,522 --> 00:44:13,067
- What did you do with the skull?
- Kept that.
728
00:44:13,150 --> 00:44:15,903
- Where'd you keep it?
- In the closet area.
729
00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:25,496
Jeff became more than just
the neighbor across the hall.
730
00:44:28,499 --> 00:44:31,752
I liked him because I felt
that he had a soft heart.
731
00:44:32,753 --> 00:44:34,463
There was one time
732
00:44:34,546 --> 00:44:37,591
when my sister was getting married.
733
00:44:38,717 --> 00:44:41,261
I didn't have any money
to get a gift for her.
734
00:44:42,596 --> 00:44:44,348
I knocked on Jeff's door,
735
00:44:45,015 --> 00:44:49,228
and I told him, "You know, I'm getting
ready to go to my sister's wedding."
736
00:44:49,311 --> 00:44:53,148
And I said, "Is it possible you can
loan me some money to get her a gift?"
737
00:44:55,234 --> 00:44:56,777
He gave me $60.
738
00:44:57,319 --> 00:44:59,488
Told me, "Don't even worry about it."
739
00:45:00,364 --> 00:45:02,950
He said, "Get your sister something nice."
740
00:45:03,867 --> 00:45:06,328
I knew nothing about his past.
741
00:45:07,538 --> 00:45:10,582
How many people know
what their neighbor does
742
00:45:10,666 --> 00:45:13,252
once they go inside and close their door?
743
00:45:13,752 --> 00:45:16,797
You can only go by
744
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,298
what you see,
745
00:45:18,924 --> 00:45:22,261
and what you hear from out of their mouth.
746
00:45:33,814 --> 00:45:37,359
Jeff, what do we know
about the suspect? He's 31 years old?
747
00:45:37,443 --> 00:45:38,694
He's 31 years old.
748
00:45:38,777 --> 00:45:41,655
Neighbors talked briefly about him
to me during the night.
749
00:45:41,739 --> 00:45:45,284
They said they didn't really know him.
They described him as strange, a loner,
750
00:45:45,367 --> 00:45:48,245
uh, but they did say he had a job
and worked every day.
751
00:45:50,497 --> 00:45:52,291
The night of his arrest,
752
00:45:53,917 --> 00:45:56,628
we had no idea of why they were there.
753
00:45:57,463 --> 00:46:00,132
And when I asked one of the officers,
754
00:46:00,841 --> 00:46:02,176
"Is Jeff okay?"
755
00:46:02,801 --> 00:46:05,095
He said, "Yeah, that fucker's okay."
756
00:46:08,307 --> 00:46:09,808
I was standing there
757
00:46:10,893 --> 00:46:13,687
watching them take the body parts
758
00:46:13,771 --> 00:46:16,148
that were in little small boxes.
759
00:46:16,732 --> 00:46:19,568
A little bit bigger than a shoe box,
all brown.
760
00:46:19,651 --> 00:46:22,404
Taking the boxes out
two and three at a time.
761
00:46:22,488 --> 00:46:24,782
Two and three at a time,
taking the boxes out.
762
00:46:26,325 --> 00:46:29,369
Turns out that Jeff
763
00:46:29,453 --> 00:46:31,955
is actually Jeffrey Dahmer,
764
00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:34,249
who has murdered men
765
00:46:34,333 --> 00:46:36,752
inside apartment 213.
766
00:46:39,087 --> 00:46:42,299
The parts, box after box
of dismembered human remains,
767
00:46:42,382 --> 00:46:43,383
were taken away
768
00:46:43,467 --> 00:46:46,094
Now the job is to identify the victims.
769
00:46:46,178 --> 00:46:48,722
At this time, we have no identifications
770
00:46:48,806 --> 00:46:52,184
on any of the, uh, specimens
that we have recovered.
771
00:46:54,228 --> 00:46:57,773
At that time,
there was no such thing as DNA
772
00:46:57,856 --> 00:47:01,693
that was accessible
to a routine, regular medical examiner.
773
00:47:02,444 --> 00:47:05,697
So we were using dental analysis,
774
00:47:05,781 --> 00:47:07,533
and fingerprints,
775
00:47:07,616 --> 00:47:09,535
and personal effects,
776
00:47:09,618 --> 00:47:13,372
uh, tattoos, surgical scars, etc.
777
00:47:13,455 --> 00:47:16,083
in our trying to identify these victims.
778
00:47:19,086 --> 00:47:21,588
Putting the skeletons back together
779
00:47:21,672 --> 00:47:23,674
was like putting a puzzle together.
780
00:47:25,551 --> 00:47:29,221
Forensic anthropologists
could tell us age, race, sex,
781
00:47:29,304 --> 00:47:33,433
and also help us interpret
some of the injuries that we were seeing.
782
00:47:33,517 --> 00:47:35,060
Once investigators here
783
00:47:35,143 --> 00:47:38,772
are able to put together
physical descriptions of the victims,
784
00:47:38,856 --> 00:47:41,775
that information will be fed
into a computer
785
00:47:41,859 --> 00:47:45,988
and cross-referenced with the descriptions
of missing persons around the country.
786
00:47:46,905 --> 00:47:49,408
Now there had been reports
787
00:47:49,491 --> 00:47:52,286
of a number of missing persons
788
00:47:52,369 --> 00:47:54,705
over the previous year and a half.
789
00:47:55,330 --> 00:47:57,791
And so we had a manifest
790
00:47:57,875 --> 00:47:59,877
of potential victims.
791
00:48:00,502 --> 00:48:02,546
After Jeffrey was arrested,
792
00:48:02,629 --> 00:48:04,840
we have 300 calls a day from people
793
00:48:04,923 --> 00:48:07,759
asking what happened to their child,
794
00:48:07,843 --> 00:48:10,304
or if he knew anything
about their children.
795
00:48:10,888 --> 00:48:13,649
People are concerned tonight,
people who lived in the area,
796
00:48:13,682 --> 00:48:16,310
people who have loved ones
who have been missing in this case.
797
00:48:16,393 --> 00:48:18,270
They have started showing up
this afternoon
798
00:48:18,353 --> 00:48:21,315
at the scene of that crime
at 25th and Kilbourn.
799
00:48:21,398 --> 00:48:24,109
We were just out here looking,
just by chance.
800
00:48:24,192 --> 00:48:27,696
It might not be so, but it might be so.
We're looking for leads ourself.
801
00:48:28,488 --> 00:48:32,910
We would check
with the medical examiner
802
00:48:32,993 --> 00:48:35,370
who tried to put the parts together.
803
00:48:36,413 --> 00:48:38,540
Once we had that information,
804
00:48:39,333 --> 00:48:41,376
and if we had a picture of him,
805
00:48:41,460 --> 00:48:43,503
we would show the photos to Dahmer
806
00:48:43,587 --> 00:48:46,423
in an attempt to identify these people.
807
00:48:47,424 --> 00:48:49,176
It was a monumental task.
808
00:48:49,718 --> 00:48:53,013
He would explain in great detail
every victim.
809
00:48:53,805 --> 00:48:57,809
There certainly were victims
that we would not have been able
810
00:48:57,893 --> 00:49:01,647
to connect to Dahmer
without his cooperation.
811
00:49:01,730 --> 00:49:04,208
Henry Smith has searched
for his brother in gay bars
812
00:49:04,232 --> 00:49:06,234
in both Milwaukee and Chicago,
813
00:49:06,318 --> 00:49:08,195
but so far has turned up nothing.
814
00:49:09,154 --> 00:49:12,741
It was often you walk in a bar
and people say,
815
00:49:13,742 --> 00:49:16,036
"Child! Another one missing."
816
00:49:16,119 --> 00:49:18,789
And you say, "What? Who's missing now?"
817
00:49:18,872 --> 00:49:21,291
Because Milwaukee's so small,
818
00:49:22,125 --> 00:49:24,002
especially the Black gays.
819
00:49:24,836 --> 00:49:28,548
So if you didn't see somebody
for two, three weeks,
820
00:49:28,632 --> 00:49:30,175
you figured they'd moved.
821
00:49:32,219 --> 00:49:34,388
But then it was almost
822
00:49:34,972 --> 00:49:38,225
I would say weekly,
somebody else was saying,
823
00:49:38,308 --> 00:49:39,726
"So and so is gone."
824
00:49:41,061 --> 00:49:44,022
I was seeing Eddie Smith all the time.
825
00:49:44,773 --> 00:49:47,943
And all of a sudden, he was gone.
826
00:49:48,527 --> 00:49:51,780
Me myself, I don't...
I don't think he's out there.
827
00:49:51,863 --> 00:49:55,200
Carolyn Smith is praying
that her fears don't come true.
828
00:49:55,283 --> 00:49:59,496
Her 28-year-old brother Eddie
was last seen a year ago on June 16,
829
00:49:59,579 --> 00:50:02,624
the day he went to go watch
Milwaukee's Gay Pride parade.
830
00:50:03,208 --> 00:50:05,544
Eddie's sister came to the bar.
831
00:50:06,628 --> 00:50:09,423
She would ask people. She had pictures.
832
00:50:09,506 --> 00:50:12,509
She was like,
"He would have called somebody."
833
00:50:12,592 --> 00:50:15,804
"I know he would have called me.
I talk to my brother every day."
834
00:50:16,763 --> 00:50:19,307
While Ernest Miller
grew up here in Milwaukee,
835
00:50:19,391 --> 00:50:22,352
he was about to return to Chicago
when he suddenly disappeared.
836
00:50:23,645 --> 00:50:26,231
Ernest Miller, another young man.
837
00:50:26,314 --> 00:50:28,400
Ernest had a good soul.
838
00:50:28,942 --> 00:50:30,485
He was very creative.
839
00:50:30,569 --> 00:50:34,906
So of course, when Ernest came up missing,
that was talk in the bars too.
840
00:50:35,657 --> 00:50:38,217
Eighteen-year-old
Curtis Straughter lived in this home
841
00:50:38,243 --> 00:50:39,828
with his grandmother on the north side.
842
00:50:39,911 --> 00:50:42,539
She last saw him about five months ago.
843
00:50:45,876 --> 00:50:47,335
In those days,
844
00:50:47,419 --> 00:50:51,256
you could buy cigarettes
in a cigarette machine in the bars.
845
00:50:52,799 --> 00:50:58,263
They used to have missing persons posters
on the cigarette machine.
846
00:50:59,139 --> 00:51:02,601
These were missing posters of adults
who had completely vanished.
847
00:51:02,684 --> 00:51:06,313
And their family members, their friends
were trying to track them down.
848
00:51:06,396 --> 00:51:08,607
Fight back! Fight AIDS!
849
00:51:08,690 --> 00:51:12,110
But the years in which Dahmer
was most active in Milwaukee
850
00:51:12,194 --> 00:51:13,737
coincide with years
851
00:51:13,820 --> 00:51:17,908
where the number of AIDS deaths
in Wisconsin increased ten times over.
852
00:51:19,117 --> 00:51:21,578
So people would literally just disappear.
853
00:51:22,996 --> 00:51:24,456
Were they dead?
854
00:51:24,539 --> 00:51:27,626
Were they sick? Had they moved away?
No one would know.
855
00:51:27,709 --> 00:51:30,212
Gay rights right now!
Gay rights right now!
856
00:51:30,295 --> 00:51:31,797
Gay rights right now!
857
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:33,715
Dahmer had a rare opportunity,
858
00:51:34,674 --> 00:51:36,593
a rare window in time
859
00:51:38,970 --> 00:51:41,389
where people were vanishing
in the community,
860
00:51:43,225 --> 00:51:44,518
but no one knew why.
861
00:51:45,477 --> 00:51:48,021
Jeffrey Dahmer was known
to the Hughes family too.
862
00:51:48,105 --> 00:51:50,440
Friends of Tony Hughes, a deaf-mute,
863
00:51:50,524 --> 00:51:53,485
have told Tony's mother and sister
that they saw Tony leave this bar
864
00:51:53,568 --> 00:51:54,903
with a blond man.
865
00:52:04,121 --> 00:52:07,415
Tony was unable to hear or speak,
866
00:52:07,499 --> 00:52:09,000
but he'd write notes.
867
00:52:09,084 --> 00:52:11,711
He always had a pad and paper.
868
00:52:12,504 --> 00:52:15,340
Whenever you were in his presence,
you wanted to have fun
869
00:52:15,423 --> 00:52:17,008
because he was having fun.
870
00:52:18,927 --> 00:52:22,514
Tony knew Jeff for a long time.
871
00:52:23,723 --> 00:52:28,019
And Tony and Jeff had had relations.
872
00:52:28,103 --> 00:52:30,063
Tony told me so.
873
00:52:32,190 --> 00:52:35,777
It was Memorial Day weekend of 1991.
874
00:52:38,321 --> 00:52:39,948
Tony Hughes and I
875
00:52:40,490 --> 00:52:43,660
were together in a bar called The Phoenix.
876
00:52:44,911 --> 00:52:47,539
We were sitting at the bar
having cocktails,
877
00:52:48,165 --> 00:52:50,834
and Jeff came in the back door.
Jeffrey Dahmer.
878
00:52:52,669 --> 00:52:54,212
When Jeff walked in,
879
00:52:54,754 --> 00:52:58,341
Tony got up from the bar
and approached him.
880
00:53:00,385 --> 00:53:05,182
Tony left me and went
to follow Jeff on the dance floor.
881
00:53:06,933 --> 00:53:09,644
And that was the last time
I saw Tony Hughes.
882
00:53:19,404 --> 00:53:21,907
Jeff discussed
all of the victims with me.
883
00:53:22,991 --> 00:53:26,453
However, it takes time
to get that rapport and that trust
884
00:53:26,536 --> 00:53:29,247
until you really feel like you can discuss
885
00:53:29,331 --> 00:53:32,500
all those inside secrets with people.
886
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,172
With the deaf-mute guy,
887
00:53:37,881 --> 00:53:40,217
I wanted to keep him with me,
888
00:53:41,176 --> 00:53:44,763
so I gave him the drink
with the pills in it.
889
00:53:45,305 --> 00:53:46,806
He fell asleep,
890
00:53:46,890 --> 00:53:49,851
and I wanted to see
891
00:53:49,935 --> 00:53:52,145
if I could, uh, think of a way
892
00:53:52,229 --> 00:53:53,939
to keep him with me
893
00:53:54,022 --> 00:53:57,025
without actually, you know, killing him.
894
00:53:57,859 --> 00:54:02,030
Once we got to that point
where he felt real comfortable with me,
895
00:54:02,113 --> 00:54:05,200
there was, in fact, additional things
that came out from him
896
00:54:05,283 --> 00:54:07,494
that didn't come out with the police.
897
00:54:08,453 --> 00:54:10,247
And so, uh...
898
00:54:10,330 --> 00:54:11,665
I had a drill at home.
899
00:54:12,457 --> 00:54:13,833
And, uh...
900
00:54:13,917 --> 00:54:15,627
It's gonna sound bad,
901
00:54:16,253 --> 00:54:17,253
but, uh...
902
00:54:18,004 --> 00:54:20,173
Should I say it or not?
903
00:54:21,841 --> 00:54:23,843
I took the drill while he was asleep
904
00:54:23,927 --> 00:54:27,013
and drilled a small hole in his skull,
905
00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:28,974
to see if I could,
906
00:54:29,975 --> 00:54:32,102
uh, make it so that he would, uh...
907
00:54:32,894 --> 00:54:36,106
just sorta be like, uh, in a zombie state.
908
00:54:37,941 --> 00:54:41,069
I think he truly believed
that if he could keep one of them alive,
909
00:54:41,152 --> 00:54:43,280
like doing this crude lobotomy,
910
00:54:43,363 --> 00:54:46,741
that it would be sufficient
to satisfy his needs.
911
00:54:48,535 --> 00:54:50,036
I was flabbergasted.
912
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,498
I mean, to hear that
was more than I could stand.
913
00:54:53,581 --> 00:54:56,751
In fact, one of the psychologists, uh,
914
00:54:56,835 --> 00:54:59,045
that we were working with,
915
00:54:59,129 --> 00:55:01,965
uh, Kenneth Smail, I... I made him stay.
916
00:55:02,048 --> 00:55:04,402
Jeff, where did you get that idea?
917
00:55:04,426 --> 00:55:07,595
Uh,
it came from my own thoughts.
918
00:55:08,972 --> 00:55:10,056
Uh...
919
00:55:10,140 --> 00:55:13,685
Just in my own thinking
that I thought maybe it would work,
920
00:55:13,768 --> 00:55:15,437
because I didn't wanna keep
921
00:55:16,396 --> 00:55:20,233
killing people and not have anything left
except the skull.
922
00:55:22,736 --> 00:55:26,114
He wanted to take the person's will away
is the way he would put it.
923
00:55:26,197 --> 00:55:28,575
It's astounding. It's jaw-dropping.
924
00:55:29,909 --> 00:55:33,204
He then injected muriatic acid
925
00:55:33,288 --> 00:55:35,248
through that hole in the skull.
926
00:55:36,916 --> 00:55:39,836
Mr. Hughes died from that injection.
927
00:55:39,919 --> 00:55:42,297
It wasn't necessary to strangle him later.
928
00:55:43,465 --> 00:55:46,217
And Dahmer kept the skull long term.
929
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,678
In fact, that was one of the skulls
930
00:55:48,762 --> 00:55:51,097
still in his apartment
at the time of his arrest.
931
00:55:57,854 --> 00:55:59,439
It saddens me
932
00:55:59,522 --> 00:56:01,191
every time I think about
933
00:56:01,274 --> 00:56:03,026
any of those gentlemen.
934
00:56:04,277 --> 00:56:07,072
Because like everybody else
during that time,
935
00:56:07,155 --> 00:56:09,115
they were trying to find themselves.
936
00:56:10,408 --> 00:56:12,619
They weren't expecting to get killed.
937
00:56:13,578 --> 00:56:15,705
These were, in most cases,
938
00:56:15,789 --> 00:56:18,917
uh, poor, gay men
939
00:56:19,501 --> 00:56:22,504
who probably didn't have
a large support system,
940
00:56:23,129 --> 00:56:26,424
or whose support system
when they said that,
941
00:56:26,508 --> 00:56:28,009
"My loved one is missing,"
942
00:56:28,093 --> 00:56:31,429
the attention was not given to them
the way it should've been.
943
00:56:32,972 --> 00:56:35,725
Authorities are wondering
how anyone could have committed
944
00:56:35,809 --> 00:56:36,643
these gruesome acts,
945
00:56:36,726 --> 00:56:40,063
just as others in Milwaukee are wondering
how police couldn't have known.
946
00:56:40,146 --> 00:56:44,192
Especially since Dahmer was
a convicted sex offender out on parole.
947
00:56:47,904 --> 00:56:49,906
I was in the bars often.
948
00:56:50,698 --> 00:56:52,826
Nobody asked me about anybody.
949
00:56:53,410 --> 00:56:57,038
I didn't have any police officer,
any detective,
950
00:56:57,122 --> 00:56:58,540
come up to me and say,
951
00:56:58,623 --> 00:57:01,251
"What do you know
about this person or that person?"
952
00:57:02,460 --> 00:57:05,463
This wasn't a couple of months
or a couple of weeks.
953
00:57:06,589 --> 00:57:08,133
This went on for years.
954
00:57:08,925 --> 00:57:11,678
How could one man kill
so many for so long
955
00:57:11,761 --> 00:57:13,805
without being detected by police?
956
00:57:13,888 --> 00:57:17,600
The answer in part, according to some,
is a law-enforcement community
957
00:57:17,684 --> 00:57:20,478
which is slow to investigate
gay-related crime.
958
00:57:21,563 --> 00:57:24,441
If the victims had been white
959
00:57:24,524 --> 00:57:25,733
and straight,
960
00:57:26,818 --> 00:57:30,155
the search would have been more in-depth,
961
00:57:30,238 --> 00:57:31,698
more specific.
962
00:57:32,323 --> 00:57:33,783
Bitter charges of racism,
963
00:57:33,867 --> 00:57:36,369
a belief many of the killings
could've been stopped.
964
00:57:36,453 --> 00:57:38,246
It just shows you the feeling
965
00:57:38,329 --> 00:57:41,166
towards the minority community,
like we're a burden.
966
00:57:41,958 --> 00:57:44,836
The families that didn't think
the police did enough...
967
00:57:46,629 --> 00:57:48,965
To be honest, I think
some of them might have had a point.
968
00:57:49,048 --> 00:57:51,301
I think there was this feeling,
969
00:57:51,384 --> 00:57:53,303
it's a 20-year-old guy
970
00:57:53,386 --> 00:57:56,264
that was going to the bars
and picking up guys.
971
00:57:56,347 --> 00:57:58,808
And so who knows where he is?
972
00:58:00,393 --> 00:58:03,438
There's a real question
as to whether the police department
973
00:58:03,521 --> 00:58:05,899
sufficiently followed up
on those missing people.
974
00:58:06,566 --> 00:58:09,360
Did they just assume
that they were into trouble
975
00:58:09,444 --> 00:58:11,529
and not worth following up on?
976
00:58:11,613 --> 00:58:14,365
If they would have listened
to people of color,
977
00:58:14,449 --> 00:58:17,994
they could have really saved
a lot of young people's lives.
978
00:58:18,786 --> 00:58:23,625
I went out
and bought a five-foot square freezer.
979
00:58:23,708 --> 00:58:26,586
What made you think
that you wanted to do this?
980
00:58:27,504 --> 00:58:30,465
Because I was preparing
for more.