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People go to
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these gory horror movies to…
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to get a glimpse
of what… of what they show in the movies.
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The only difference is
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I did it for real.
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So at what point in time
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did you totally give in
to these feelings altogether
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and not try and change anything?
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After the Ambassador.
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That really got things in full swing.
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I always kept my feelings
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completely to myself.
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And, uh, so this is a sort
of learning experience for me.
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It feels like
you've been open with me.
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Mm-hmm.
It gets easier as you practice.
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Can you answer for me what
was it that caused you to wanna kill them?
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The underlying force, I think,
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was obviously a warped sexual drive.
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Just a constant feeling of emptiness,
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and not being able to find
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anything in life that really gave me
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a sense of hap… happiness,
peace, or fulfillment.
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I was always searching for something more.
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One night I went out,
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and I met this… I guess he's Indian.
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And he was standing there.
Said he was waiting for the bus.
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Do you remember what his name was?
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No, I don't.
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- Where was Grandma?
- She was upstairs, sound asleep.
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I asked him, "How late can you stay?"
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And he said,
"Uh, not later than early morning."
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And it was already
approaching early morning.
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Okay.
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What was going through your mind?
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I just…
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…wanted to keep him. I guess
that's the best way to describe it.
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My thoughts obviously weren't, uh…
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the thoughts of a sane person at the time.
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Uh, I would've rather he'd stayed alive,
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but strangling seemed
to be the way to keep him.
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This whole situation has forced me
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at how I've lived my life.
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You never saw that at the time?
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I may have
seen it. I chose to ignore it, bury it,
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submerge it under the compulsion
that was driving me.
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It was a morbid interest, obviously.
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All right.
And what did you start with?
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Just, uh, roadkill,
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dogs,
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uh, possums.
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In ninth grade, I dissected a baby pig.
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After we were done with dissection,
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took the pig's head home
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and took the flesh off,
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and kept the skull for a while.
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Why, I don't know.
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I'm not even sure whether or not
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I was capable of a real…
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sense of love, even back then.
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I ain't sure if I am now.
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You don't know how to love.
Is that what you're saying?
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I'm not sure I do, no.
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A person who can love,
I don't think would do these things.
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Saw this, uh, Eurasian guy
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walking down the street in the afternoon.
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Asked him if he wanted to make
some money, $50. He said, "Yes."
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"For pictures." We went back.
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He stripped down to his underwear.
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I took two pictures of him,
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one on the bed
and one standing up, I think.
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And I was drinking some coffee
with Irish Cream Mist in it.
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And I gave him some,
and it had sleeping pills in it.
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And, uh, he drank some.
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The whole time, he stayed there
maybe an hour at the most.
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Said he had to be going.
I paid him the $50.
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And he left.
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Why did you let him go?
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Because I had no knife.
I had no intention of… of injuring him.
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I just wanted to stay with him
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and… and, uh, lay with him for a while.
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- Still living at Grandma's?
- Right.
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Okay.
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Two months before I was to go
into the work release center,
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it was closing time at La Cage.
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Was it one of your regular bars?
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And struck up a conversation
with this, uh, Black guy.
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- What was his name?
- I think his name was Tony.
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I think.
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That's what he told me
his name was anyway.
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Tony.
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He had a friend, a white man, with him.
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And his friend had a car.
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And then during the car ride,
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he's very affectionate,
apparently very drunk.
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And we drove
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to 57th and Lincoln.
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When you did go out that night, though,
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and you met this guy,
and you decided he seemed a nice guy.
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Hmm.
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What came into your mind
that you wanted to ask him back?
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Did you become fearful in any way
that it was gonna happen again?
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Hm. No. I… I thought that
it would just be a regular night.
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I brought him back.
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My judgment isn't always so good
when I'm drinking,
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especially when I drink a lot.
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And we went up to the bedroom
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and laid around.
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He was making some comments
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about it getting to be early,
and he'd have to leave.
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I went down and made a cup of coffee
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with the pills.
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He fell asleep,
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and that's when I strangled him.
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Did it ever
get into your mind at that time
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that in fact, you had lost him
rather than keeping him?
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Hmm.
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I suppose that that realization
did hit me, yeah, but--
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- When?
- After they were dead.
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How did that feel?
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Unfulfilling.
It felt like a waste.
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He had a nice-looking face, so I…
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With the head, I cut that off,
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put it in a large, white barrel,
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filled it up with acetone,
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and that preserved the head.
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Why did you do that this time?
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Well, just branching out
into different variations.
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You kept
the genitals, and you kept the head?
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Mm-hmm.
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Did you still feel
as though you had your companion?
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This all is so bizarre
sounding now to me.
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You think you loved Tony?
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Yeah, I could say that if I knew
how to love, I would have loved him.
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It was a matter of trying
to preserve what I had left of him.
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- What were you hoping for?
- Um…
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I hoped he would just dry out
and stay looking like he did in life,
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but it didn't work out that way.
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By that time, it was fairly obvious
that it didn't look like Tony anymore.
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-It was just all shriveled up.
- Okay.
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But did it still excite you?
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No, not as much.
The excitement was wearing off.
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After I got out
of the work release center,
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I moved out of Grandma's
and into this apartment.
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While I was looking for an apartment
that looked halfway decent,
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I saw the Oxford Apartments,
and, uh walked in.
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They had a "for rent" sign in front.
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And, uh, I moved in
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in May of '90, I guess.
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Had the movers bring my TV, and uh…
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and a big chest that I had
with all my possessions in it.
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Things you had at Grandma's house?
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Mm-hmm.
In my mind, I had my own place,
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someplace nice and private
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where I could just take someone back,
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drug them, and then strangle them.
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Is this the first person
you took pictures of?
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Yeah, yeah.
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The nickname was "Cash D," I think.
I don't know his real name.
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00:41:28,028 --> 00:41:31,406
What did you use to take
the pictures? You had a camera?
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It was a Polaroid.
A Polaroid camera.
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- How long did this last?
- About an hour.
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-Of just taking photographs?
- Mm-hmm.
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It just
felt like a waste to me to destroy someone
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that looked so nice.
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But by that time, I had no choice.
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He was dead,
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and I had to find some way
to dispose of the remains.
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A day or two later,
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I went out and bought
this large, 80-gallon kettle
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from one of the restaurant's supply.
171
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That's why you got a huge barrel?
172
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So you could put
the acid in for the bones?
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Yeah, that… It was
174
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a trash barrel. It's…
175
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So you put the bones in there,
and it would just…
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Turn into a slush
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that then could be
scooped out into the toilet
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and flushed down.
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- What did you do with the skull?
- Kept that.
180
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- Where'd you keep it?
- In the closet area.
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With the deaf-mute guy,
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I wanted to keep him with me,
183
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so I gave him the drink
with the pills in it.
184
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He fell asleep,
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and I wanted to see
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if I could, uh, think of a way
187
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to keep him with me
188
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without actually, you know, killing him.
189
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And so, uh…
190
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I had a drill at home.
191
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And, uh…
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It's gonna sound bad,
193
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but, uh…
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Should I say it or not?
195
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I took the drill while he was asleep
196
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and drilled a small hole in his skull,
197
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to see if I could,
198
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uh, make it so that he would, uh…
199
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just sorta be like, uh, in a zombie state.
200
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Jeff, where did you get that idea?
201
00:55:04,469 --> 00:55:07,638
Uh,
it came from my own thoughts.
202
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Uh…
203
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Just in my own thinking
that I thought maybe it would work,
204
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because I didn't wanna keep
205
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killing people and not have anything left
except the skull.