People go to
these gory horror movies to…
to get a glimpse of what… of what they show in the movies.
The only difference is
I did it for real.
So at what point in time
did you totally give in to these feelings altogether
and not try and change anything?
After the Ambassador.
That really got things in full swing.
I always kept my feelings
completely to myself.
And, uh, so this is a sort of learning experience for me.
It feels like you've been open with me.
Mm-hmm. It gets easier as you practice.
Can you answer for me what was it that caused you to wanna kill them?
The underlying force, I think,
was obviously a warped sexual drive.
Just a constant feeling of emptiness,
and not being able to find
anything in life that really gave me
a sense of hap… happiness, peace, or fulfillment.
I was always searching for something more.
One night I went out,
and I met this… I guess he's Indian.
And he was standing there. Said he was waiting for the bus.
Do you remember what his name was?
No, I don't.
- Where was Grandma? - She was upstairs, sound asleep.
I asked him, "How late can you stay?"
And he said, "Uh, not later than early morning."
And it was already approaching early morning.
Okay.
What was going through your mind?
I just…
…wanted to keep him. I guess that's the best way to describe it.
My thoughts obviously weren't, uh…
the thoughts of a sane person at the time.
Uh, I would've rather he'd stayed alive,
but strangling seemed to be the way to keep him.
This whole situation has forced me
at how I've lived my life.
You never saw that at the time?
I may have seen it. I chose to ignore it, bury it,
submerge it under the compulsion that was driving me.
It was a morbid interest, obviously.
All right. And what did you start with?
Just, uh, roadkill,
dogs,
uh, possums.
In ninth grade, I dissected a baby pig.
After we were done with dissection,
took the pig's head home
and took the flesh off,
and kept the skull for a while.
Why, I don't know.
I'm not even sure whether or not
I was capable of a real…
sense of love, even back then.
I ain't sure if I am now.
You don't know how to love. Is that what you're saying?
I'm not sure I do, no.
A person who can love, I don't think would do these things.
Saw this, uh, Eurasian guy
walking down the street in the afternoon.
Asked him if he wanted to make some money, $50. He said, "Yes."
"For pictures." We went back.
He stripped down to his underwear.
I took two pictures of him,
one on the bed and one standing up, I think.
And I was drinking some coffee with Irish Cream Mist in it.
And I gave him some, and it had sleeping pills in it.
And, uh, he drank some.
The whole time, he stayed there maybe an hour at the most.
Said he had to be going. I paid him the $50.
And he left.
Why did you let him go?
Because I had no knife. I had no intention of… of injuring him.
I just wanted to stay with him
and… and, uh, lay with him for a while.
- Still living at Grandma's? - Right.
Okay.
Two months before I was to go into the work release center,
it was closing time at La Cage.
Was it one of your regular bars?
And struck up a conversation with this, uh, Black guy.
- What was his name? - I think his name was Tony.
I think.
That's what he told me his name was anyway.
Tony.
He had a friend, a white man, with him.
And his friend had a car.
And then during the car ride,
he's very affectionate, apparently very drunk.
And we drove
to 57th and Lincoln.
When you did go out that night, though,
and you met this guy, and you decided he seemed a nice guy.
Hmm.
What came into your mind that you wanted to ask him back?
Did you become fearful in any way that it was gonna happen again?
Hm. No. I… I thought that it would just be a regular night.
I brought him back.
My judgment isn't always so good when I'm drinking,
especially when I drink a lot.
And we went up to the bedroom
and laid around.
He was making some comments
about it getting to be early, and he'd have to leave.
I went down and made a cup of coffee
with the pills.
He fell asleep,
and that's when I strangled him.
Did it ever get into your mind at that time
that in fact, you had lost him rather than keeping him?
Hmm.
I suppose that that realization did hit me, yeah, but--
- When? - After they were dead.
How did that feel?
Unfulfilling. It felt like a waste.
He had a nice-looking face, so I…
With the head, I cut that off,
put it in a large, white barrel,
filled it up with acetone,
and that preserved the head.
Why did you do that this time?
Well, just branching out into different variations.
You kept the genitals, and you kept the head?
Mm-hmm.
Did you still feel as though you had your companion?
This all is so bizarre sounding now to me.
You think you loved Tony?
Yeah, I could say that if I knew how to love, I would have loved him.
It was a matter of trying to preserve what I had left of him.
- What were you hoping for? - Um…
I hoped he would just dry out and stay looking like he did in life,
but it didn't work out that way.
By that time, it was fairly obvious that it didn't look like Tony anymore.
-It was just all shriveled up. - Okay.
But did it still excite you?
No, not as much. The excitement was wearing off.
After I got out of the work release center,
I moved out of Grandma's and into this apartment.
While I was looking for an apartment that looked halfway decent,
I saw the Oxford Apartments, and, uh walked in.
They had a "for rent" sign in front.
And, uh, I moved in
in May of '90, I guess.
Had the movers bring my TV, and uh…
and a big chest that I had with all my possessions in it.
Things you had at Grandma's house?
Mm-hmm. In my mind, I had my own place,
someplace nice and private
where I could just take someone back,
drug them, and then strangle them.
Is this the first person you took pictures of?
Yeah, yeah.
The nickname was "Cash D," I think. I don't know his real name.
What did you use to take the pictures? You had a camera?
It was a Polaroid. A Polaroid camera.
- How long did this last? - About an hour.
-Of just taking photographs? - Mm-hmm.
It just felt like a waste to me to destroy someone
that looked so nice.
But by that time, I had no choice.
He was dead,
and I had to find some way to dispose of the remains.
A day or two later,
I went out and bought this large, 80-gallon kettle
from one of the restaurant's supply.
That's why you got a huge barrel?
So you could put the acid in for the bones?
Yeah, that… It was
a trash barrel. It's…
So you put the bones in there, and it would just…
Turn into a slush
that then could be scooped out into the toilet
and flushed down.
- What did you do with the skull? - Kept that.
- Where'd you keep it? - In the closet area.
With the deaf-mute guy,
I wanted to keep him with me,
so I gave him the drink with the pills in it.
He fell asleep,
and I wanted to see
if I could, uh, think of a way
to keep him with me
without actually, you know, killing him.
And so, uh…
I had a drill at home.
And, uh…
It's gonna sound bad,
but, uh…
Should I say it or not?
I took the drill while he was asleep
and drilled a small hole in his skull,
to see if I could,
uh, make it so that he would, uh…
just sorta be like, uh, in a zombie state.
Jeff, where did you get that idea?
Uh, it came from my own thoughts.
Uh…
Just in my own thinking that I thought maybe it would work,
because I didn't wanna keep
killing people and not have anything left except the skull.