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After the first time
that Mr. Dahmer killed,
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he then went for nine years
without killing.
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But then after this hiatus,
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he wakes up in the Ambassador Hotel
with a dead body next to him.
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He then had what I'd refer to
as a religious conversion in reverse.
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He began to think,
"Maybe there's a devil."
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"Maybe it's my destiny
to carry out the work of the devil."
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He began engaging
in all kinds of bizarre incantations.
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He began relating to parts of movies
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that seemed to suggest
there were evil forces out there.
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Return of the Jedi
was one of them.
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He really identified with the Emperor.
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He wanted like that mind control.
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He had those, you know, yellow eyes.
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So Jeff found some place where he could
get contacts that were yellow eyes.
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And so before he would go out at night,
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he would put the contacts in.
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He had to get himself charged up
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by trying to emulate
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a devil or evil person
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-to fulfill his fantasies.
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People go to
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these gory horror movies to…
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to get a glimpse
of what… of what they show in the movies.
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The only difference is
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I did it for real.
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My relationship with Jeff
grew over time.
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As we went on,
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I got to know different facets of him.
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There was a lot of conflict within him.
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He went a very long time
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where he didn't commit any murders.
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But after he met Steven Tuomi,
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his control over the issue was gone.
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And that's a slippery slope.
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So at what point in time
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did you totally give in
to these feelings altogether
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and not try and change anything?
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After the Ambassador.
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That really got things in full swing.
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Eventually, he got to a point
where he went over the cliff.
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And there's no coming back.
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And four years later,
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that reckless behavior
is what ultimately led to his arrest.
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The Dahmer case is
something we had never seen in Milwaukee.
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It was an unreal moment
in my reporting career.
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That night back in July of '91,
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on the 22nd,
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Milwaukee police officers
were on their nightly tour of duty.
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They came outside of…
of Dahmer's apartment
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just down the street in their cruiser.
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And that's when
Tracy Edwards approached them.
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Tracy Edwards was wearing boxer shorts,
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and a handcuff hanging down on his wrist.
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So the officers were talking to him,
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and he started to share
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this kind of fantastical story
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about where he had just been.
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About this weird white dude
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that he had just had contact with.
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Dahmer chose his victims
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by a certain body structure.
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He would offer them money,
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and they would let Dahmer
take photos of them.
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But he'd say,
"You have to come to my apartment."
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That night, Tracy Edwards agreed
to come over to Dahmer's apartment.
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Tracy, first of all,
he's a very nice fella,
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and he was very, very street-smart.
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And he told us about
how Jeffrey was acting that night.
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And he'd suddenly realized
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that he wasn't going there
for photography.
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He was going there for something worse.
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When they were in the bedroom,
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Dahmer slapped one cuff on him,
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and Edwards moved
so he couldn't get the other cuff on him.
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And Jeffrey put on
that Exorcist III movie.
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Dahmer was starting to get into the movie.
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So he wasn't concerned
about the other cuff.
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He started this crazy motion,
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sitting and rocking
back and forth in a chair,
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and making these strange noises,
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and talking like in tongues.
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Tracy started acting
like they were buddies,
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'cause he knew he had to get away
or he was gonna get killed.
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I told him I gotta go to the bathroom.
As I was walking past the guy, I hit him.
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Then I ran for the door,
and God had to be with me, right?
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'Cause he had, like,
eight different locks on that,
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and I just picked the right lock
out of all of them.
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Tracy flagged down
a Milwaukee police squad.
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At first, he just wanted the handcuff off.
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I don't think he wanted
to give a lot of information
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as to how the handcuff was put on him.
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Because it was different handcuffs
than Milwaukee police used,
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their keys actually
didn't even work in it.
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So they went back to the apartment,
both to get a handcuff key,
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and also to investigate.
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When Dahmer answered the door,
he was intoxicated.
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He allowed the officers in.
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The officers checked the bedroom,
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found a knife under the bed
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that Dahmer threatened Tracy Edwards with.
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Tracy Edwards had made
the comment
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about Dahmer saying that there was
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a head or heads in the refrigerator.
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The officer opened it
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and saw the head in the refrigerator
with the head looking up,
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and he screamed.
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He literally screamed.
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He eventually retired,
kept dreaming about it.
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He couldn't handle it.
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Dahmer was taken into custody.
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He was taken down to police headquarters.
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When I arrived at the scene
and met the night shift lieutenant,
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Roosevelt Harrell, he was just shaking
his head and gave me a briefing
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how unbelievable it was.
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It's a very, very small apartment,
but a tremendous amount of evidence.
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The scene itself was gruesome.
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The tools that were at the apartment
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were hacksaws, screwdrivers,
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other tools that he would use
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while he was dissecting the victims.
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I thought it was gonna be a routine scene,
and when I arrived,
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the, uh, law enforcement officer
took me into Dahmer's apartment.
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Forensic pathologists
are used to seeing trauma,
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but this was something different.
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Looking around the room, you could tell
people had fear on their face.
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And in the years that have passed,
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I have come to believe
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that that is a time
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that I actually encountered evil.
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And I can't describe it,
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but it is a feeling of human depravity.
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As we went through
these various drawers and containers,
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my feeling is that
I was not doing a crime scene,
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but I was dismantling Dahmer's museum.
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It was obvious that Dahmer had collected
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some of the body parts
from the individuals that he had killed.
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Desiccated genitals, you know, human hair.
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We found plastic bags
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that contained tissue.
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I was able to identify
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a human heart,
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and other types of skeletal muscle tissue.
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And then, in that bedroom,
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there was three intact skeletons
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that had been decapitated.
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And 11 human skulls.
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Then it all of a sudden hit me.
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"We have a serial killer in Milwaukee."
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It was just so extreme.
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It was almost unbelievable.
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But you knew it was believable
because we had all the evidence there.
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When I was in the bedroom,
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I noticed this large, plastic blue vat.
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And as I moved it and shook it,
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there was a sloshing of liquid,
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as well as some heavy weight.
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So I asked to have the HAZMAT team come in
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and remove that
in case there was any chemicals
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or other harmful materials
that were there.
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Early the next morning,
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I headed to the police headquarters
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and got a rundown on
what Dahmer had been saying.
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And so then we started
to go through the time frame.
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That started what was many weeks,
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in fact, uh, months of investigation.
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His attorney would be there and say,
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"Jeffrey,
I'm gonna advise you not to talk."
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And every day he would sign
a waiver saying, "No, I wanna talk."
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We were in the jail,
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and he was just going through each of them
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as he could remember, going back in time.
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I always kept my feelings
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completely to myself.
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And, uh, so this is a sort
of learning experience for me.
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It feels like
you've been open with me.
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Mm-hmm.
It gets easier as you practice.
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Can you answer for me what
was it that caused you to wanna kill them?
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The underlying force, I think,
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was obviously a warped sexual drive.
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Just a constant feeling of emptiness,
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and not being able to find
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anything in life that really gave me
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a sense of hap… happiness,
peace, or fulfillment.
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I was always searching for something more.
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One night I went out,
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and I met this… I guess he's Indian.
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And he was standing there.
Said he was waiting for the bus.
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Do you remember what his name was?
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No, I don't.
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In January of 1988,
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Jeffrey Dahmer, while living
at his grandma's house, went out,
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and he met James Doxtator, who was 14.
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He was in front of a gay bar
at the bus stop.
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Dahmer asked him to come back
to his grandmother's house with him.
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Doxtator named his price,
which was $50 for sex.
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-Where was Grandma?
-She was upstairs, sound asleep.
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I asked him, "How late can you stay?"
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And he said,
"Uh, not later than early morning."
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And it was already
approaching early morning.
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Okay.
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What was going through your mind?
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I just…
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…wanted to keep him. I guess
that's the best way to describe it.
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He would mix the potions
that would render the person asleep.
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and use the sleeping pills.
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00:13:20,342 --> 00:13:23,637
He would give them five or seven of them
in a coffee drink.
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Maybe… maybe with some alcohol
put in there.
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My thoughts obviously weren't, uh…
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the thoughts of a sane person at the time.
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Uh, I would've rather he'd stayed alive,
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but strangling seemed
to be the way to keep him.
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00:13:42,364 --> 00:13:46,326
He would kill somebody.
The body would be upstairs in the bedroom.
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00:13:46,410 --> 00:13:49,454
The grandmother would wake up,
and Jeffrey would come down
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00:13:49,538 --> 00:13:51,248
and have breakfast with her.
216
00:13:51,331 --> 00:13:53,667
The body's upstairs in the bedroom.
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Jeffrey would chitchat
with his grandmother
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and send her off to church.
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There's just a total detachment.
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00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:06,221
He kept the corpse of Doxtator
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00:14:06,305 --> 00:14:10,350
in his grandmother's fruit cellar
for about a week.
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00:14:10,434 --> 00:14:13,103
And when alone in the house
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would bring out the body
and make sexual use of it.
224
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What corpses, mannequins,
and unconscious people
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00:14:22,821 --> 00:14:24,448
all have in common
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is they don't make demands,
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they don't complain,
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and they don't leave.
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00:14:31,246 --> 00:14:33,332
For Dahmer, that's the big one.
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00:14:36,126 --> 00:14:39,171
There's no person
I've ever known of
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00:14:39,254 --> 00:14:42,466
that was as lonely a human being
as Jeffrey Dahmer.
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I'd say,
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00:14:45,135 --> 00:14:47,346
"Jeffrey, do you have any friends?"
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00:14:48,305 --> 00:14:49,139
"No."
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00:14:49,222 --> 00:14:51,600
"Did you ever go to a movie with a guy?"
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00:14:52,184 --> 00:14:53,018
"No."
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00:14:53,101 --> 00:14:55,646
"Do you ever go to a party?" "No."
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He had no friends,
so he wasn't talking to anybody.
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00:15:02,903 --> 00:15:06,949
All I got was a picture
of a shell of a human being.
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He had no sense about anything
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00:15:10,535 --> 00:15:13,789
other than satisfying this desire
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00:15:13,872 --> 00:15:17,668
to have sex with a dead
or an unconscious human being.
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This whole situation has forced me
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at how I've lived my life.
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You never saw that at the time?
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00:15:30,555 --> 00:15:34,518
I may have
seen it. I chose to ignore it, bury it,
247
00:15:35,394 --> 00:15:39,272
submerge it under the compulsion
that was driving me.
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00:15:41,441 --> 00:15:44,987
Jeffrey was very intellectually curious
about anatomy.
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00:15:45,988 --> 00:15:50,492
The interest occurred very young,
even when he was in third or fourth grade.
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00:15:57,916 --> 00:16:02,504
When Jeff and I were young,
we would often go hiking in the woods.
251
00:16:02,587 --> 00:16:07,759
And we'd often come across
bones in the ground,
252
00:16:07,843 --> 00:16:10,470
and he just took a particular interest
253
00:16:10,554 --> 00:16:12,723
in some of the anatomy of these animals.
254
00:16:14,057 --> 00:16:18,270
He would spend time
out in this little shack in the yard,
255
00:16:18,353 --> 00:16:20,605
where he collected animals.
256
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:24,276
And that garden shed
was at one point
257
00:16:24,359 --> 00:16:26,903
used to hold a bone collection.
258
00:16:27,779 --> 00:16:30,323
Squirrel bones or rabbit bones,
259
00:16:30,407 --> 00:16:33,243
or whatever you find out in the woods.
260
00:16:33,326 --> 00:16:37,080
He had it all nicely displayed
on some building tables in this shed.
261
00:16:37,664 --> 00:16:40,250
He'd already cleaned off
any flesh that was on them.
262
00:16:40,333 --> 00:16:43,211
Personally, it was nothing that I was
interested in collecting myself.
263
00:16:43,295 --> 00:16:45,172
Jeff found it interesting.
264
00:16:45,756 --> 00:16:48,175
What he was interested in
at that age
265
00:16:48,258 --> 00:16:52,012
was more along the lines
of amateur taxidermy.
266
00:16:52,637 --> 00:16:54,556
But in the process of that,
267
00:16:55,223 --> 00:16:56,641
it happened to him
268
00:16:56,725 --> 00:16:59,519
that he became interested
269
00:16:59,603 --> 00:17:01,521
in the internal organs.
270
00:17:03,607 --> 00:17:06,234
It was a morbid interest, obviously.
271
00:17:06,318 --> 00:17:08,653
All right.
And what did you start with?
272
00:17:10,030 --> 00:17:12,240
Just, uh, roadkill,
273
00:17:12,324 --> 00:17:13,784
dogs,
274
00:17:13,867 --> 00:17:15,452
uh, possums.
275
00:17:15,952 --> 00:17:19,039
He certainly had a fascination
with cutting open the animals,
276
00:17:19,122 --> 00:17:20,999
wanting to look at the insides.
277
00:17:21,083 --> 00:17:23,585
You know, see how everything laid out.
278
00:17:24,336 --> 00:17:30,550
In ninth grade, I dissected a baby pig.
279
00:17:30,634 --> 00:17:32,969
After we were done with dissection,
280
00:17:33,053 --> 00:17:34,805
took the pig's head home
281
00:17:34,888 --> 00:17:36,598
and took the flesh off,
282
00:17:37,265 --> 00:17:40,018
and kept the skull for a while.
283
00:17:40,102 --> 00:17:41,520
Why, I don't know.
284
00:17:43,063 --> 00:17:45,982
He wouldn't kill any animals.
He would find dead animals,
285
00:17:46,066 --> 00:17:47,150
and he would do it.
286
00:17:48,193 --> 00:17:50,904
This was all part of his fascination
287
00:17:50,987 --> 00:17:52,364
with a dead body.
288
00:17:55,158 --> 00:17:57,035
It's all that
he was interested in.
289
00:17:57,911 --> 00:17:59,621
It became an obsession for him.
290
00:18:00,539 --> 00:18:04,334
He had this wall
between himself and other people.
291
00:18:04,417 --> 00:18:06,128
No emotionality at all.
292
00:18:06,211 --> 00:18:09,881
Somebody who is unable
to attach himself to other people.
293
00:18:11,550 --> 00:18:14,261
I'm not even sure whether or not
294
00:18:14,344 --> 00:18:16,096
I was capable of a real…
295
00:18:16,930 --> 00:18:19,266
sense of love, even back then.
296
00:18:20,225 --> 00:18:21,685
I ain't sure if I am now.
297
00:18:22,269 --> 00:18:25,438
You don't know how to love.
Is that what you're saying?
298
00:18:25,522 --> 00:18:26,898
I'm not sure I do, no.
299
00:18:26,982 --> 00:18:30,610
A person who can love,
I don't think would do these things.
300
00:18:41,705 --> 00:18:44,499
The morning after
Dahmer had been arrested,
301
00:18:44,583 --> 00:18:46,168
the sun was rising,
302
00:18:46,251 --> 00:18:48,670
the nighttime police officers
were heading off,
303
00:18:48,753 --> 00:18:50,839
and the daytime officers were coming on.
304
00:18:54,968 --> 00:18:58,263
The alley behind Dahmer's apartment
was crowded now
305
00:18:58,346 --> 00:19:01,183
with some media people,
but mostly with residents
306
00:19:01,266 --> 00:19:04,019
who'd been evacuated
from Dahmer's apartment building.
307
00:19:06,479 --> 00:19:09,566
It's important for a crime reporter
to have connections,
308
00:19:09,649 --> 00:19:11,943
the inside scoop in a police department.
309
00:19:12,611 --> 00:19:15,071
And one of my friends
in the police department
310
00:19:15,155 --> 00:19:16,781
told me Dahmer's name.
311
00:19:17,282 --> 00:19:19,367
And that was not public at the time.
312
00:19:20,368 --> 00:19:22,913
I wanted to get away from the crime scene
313
00:19:22,996 --> 00:19:27,000
to the computer system
at the district attorney's office.
314
00:19:28,418 --> 00:19:30,170
In that computer system,
315
00:19:30,253 --> 00:19:33,423
I could type in Dahmer's name
and find out his history.
316
00:19:34,466 --> 00:19:37,928
And sure enough, there's a case,
a felony case, of sexual assault.
317
00:19:39,471 --> 00:19:43,141
I was able to go through the records
and find out he was represented
318
00:19:43,225 --> 00:19:45,894
in that case
by an attorney named Gerry Boyle.
319
00:19:46,436 --> 00:19:49,439
Dahmer had been a known commodity
to the police department.
320
00:19:57,948 --> 00:20:01,243
I met Dahmer
for the first time in 1988.
321
00:20:02,535 --> 00:20:07,332
He had been charged
with sexual misconduct with a young boy.
322
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:11,962
Saw this, uh, Eurasian guy
323
00:20:12,045 --> 00:20:15,090
walking down the street in the afternoon.
324
00:20:15,173 --> 00:20:19,010
Asked him if he wanted to make
some money, $50. He said, "Yes."
325
00:20:19,719 --> 00:20:21,554
"For pictures." We went back.
326
00:20:23,807 --> 00:20:25,642
He stripped down to his underwear.
327
00:20:26,309 --> 00:20:28,144
I took two pictures of him,
328
00:20:28,228 --> 00:20:30,188
one on the bed
and one standing up, I think.
329
00:20:31,606 --> 00:20:35,527
And I was drinking some coffee
with Irish Cream Mist in it.
330
00:20:36,027 --> 00:20:39,114
And I gave him some,
and it had sleeping pills in it.
331
00:20:39,698 --> 00:20:42,033
And, uh, he drank some.
332
00:20:43,034 --> 00:20:46,413
The whole time, he stayed there
maybe an hour at the most.
333
00:20:47,664 --> 00:20:50,583
Said he had to be going.
I paid him the $50.
334
00:20:51,543 --> 00:20:53,086
And he left.
335
00:20:56,506 --> 00:20:58,091
Why did you let him go?
336
00:20:58,883 --> 00:21:02,762
Because I had no knife.
I had no intention of… of injuring him.
337
00:21:02,846 --> 00:21:05,140
I just wanted to stay with him
338
00:21:05,223 --> 00:21:07,434
and… and, uh, lay with him for a while.
339
00:21:09,561 --> 00:21:14,316
He told me he liked
listening to people's stomach.
340
00:21:14,399 --> 00:21:16,443
Then I was on the bed still,
341
00:21:16,526 --> 00:21:20,030
and then he came more like leaning down,
and then he start…
342
00:21:20,739 --> 00:21:22,657
He put his ears to my stomach.
343
00:21:24,117 --> 00:21:25,744
The boy was able to escape.
344
00:21:25,827 --> 00:21:28,204
Got to his home in a drugged condition.
345
00:21:28,288 --> 00:21:29,998
His parents were quite concerned.
346
00:21:30,081 --> 00:21:32,334
Eventually, took him to the hospital
and called the police
347
00:21:32,417 --> 00:21:34,252
because he appeared to be drugged.
348
00:21:36,755 --> 00:21:40,425
Our office prosecuted Dahmer
for the boy's victimization.
349
00:21:41,384 --> 00:21:45,263
Dahmer was convicted of drugging
and sexual enticement of the youngster.
350
00:21:46,348 --> 00:21:49,851
At the time,
Dahmer was brought to my attention,
351
00:21:49,934 --> 00:21:52,562
I was chief psychologist
352
00:21:52,645 --> 00:21:55,190
for Department of Corrections,
Milwaukee region.
353
00:21:57,317 --> 00:21:59,944
While he was awaiting sentencing,
354
00:22:00,445 --> 00:22:03,823
I said I would just do a brief evaluation
355
00:22:04,491 --> 00:22:08,161
to get a sense of the status
of what we were working with.
356
00:22:09,913 --> 00:22:15,877
Jeffrey was guarded, angry,
and uncooperative from the start,
357
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,962
showing up a half hour late,
358
00:22:18,046 --> 00:22:20,590
hoping that I wouldn't
have waited for him.
359
00:22:21,299 --> 00:22:24,010
He would just stare at me,
360
00:22:24,094 --> 00:22:27,639
uh, with a very cold, icy, angry stare
361
00:22:27,722 --> 00:22:29,766
for the entire interview.
362
00:22:30,934 --> 00:22:34,479
But he still gave
a lot of very important information,
363
00:22:34,562 --> 00:22:36,564
just based on his behavior.
364
00:22:37,857 --> 00:22:39,484
His personality pattern
365
00:22:39,567 --> 00:22:43,113
was of an individual who uses people,
366
00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:49,160
sees them as objects,
does not have any empathy.
367
00:22:49,744 --> 00:22:54,374
My recommendation said that this person
is too dangerous to be in the community.
368
00:22:54,457 --> 00:22:57,085
This person should be incarcerated
at this point.
369
00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:02,799
The judge, in the end,
listened to Jeffrey's speech,
370
00:23:02,882 --> 00:23:05,385
which was quite moving.
371
00:23:06,594 --> 00:23:10,723
He basically in a nutshell said,
"Oh, this is terrible."
372
00:23:10,807 --> 00:23:14,060
"Uh, I'm sorry.
It's never going to happen again."
373
00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:18,231
His sentence was a year work release.
374
00:23:20,024 --> 00:23:22,193
Work release in our state is a program
375
00:23:22,277 --> 00:23:24,529
where you can work during the day
the regular work hours,
376
00:23:24,612 --> 00:23:26,781
and then you're in county jail
while you're not working.
377
00:23:26,865 --> 00:23:30,368
Jeffrey Dahmer was employed
at the Ambrosia chocolate factory.
378
00:23:35,206 --> 00:23:38,168
Our office took the position said
he should be sentenced for six years.
379
00:23:38,251 --> 00:23:40,253
So we disagreed with the judge on that.
380
00:23:41,671 --> 00:23:45,508
I thought I was pretty aware of people
that I couldn't be fooled.
381
00:23:45,592 --> 00:23:47,802
He plenty fooled me, I'll tell ya.
382
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,138
He fooled everyone.
383
00:23:51,097 --> 00:23:53,224
When we look
at the Jeffrey Dahmer case,
384
00:23:53,308 --> 00:23:56,728
there are a number of failures
by the system,
385
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,314
whether it's probation and parole,
386
00:23:59,397 --> 00:24:02,442
whether it's law enforcement,
or whether it's the courts,
387
00:24:02,525 --> 00:24:06,112
that failed to protect the victims.
388
00:24:06,779 --> 00:24:10,241
The boy was only 13 years old
when this happened.
389
00:24:11,493 --> 00:24:12,660
Thirteen years old.
390
00:24:14,162 --> 00:24:17,582
There was no way of really knowing
391
00:24:18,208 --> 00:24:21,419
that he had already murdered people.
392
00:24:23,713 --> 00:24:26,341
But when I initially heard
393
00:24:26,424 --> 00:24:28,134
what the judge had done,
394
00:24:28,635 --> 00:24:32,931
my sense was, "Oh okay.
Well, we're gonna get him back."
395
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,768
"There's no way
we're not gonna see him again."
396
00:24:40,438 --> 00:24:43,566
He had months
between the time he was convicted,
397
00:24:43,650 --> 00:24:46,319
and the time he would start
to serve his sentence.
398
00:24:46,402 --> 00:24:48,488
It was in that interval
399
00:24:48,571 --> 00:24:51,658
that he continued cruising gay bars
400
00:24:52,283 --> 00:24:56,871
and was doing one-night hookups.
401
00:24:57,622 --> 00:25:00,500
-Still living at Grandma's?
-Right.
402
00:25:00,583 --> 00:25:01,417
Okay.
403
00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:11,386
Two months before I was to go
into the work release center,
404
00:25:14,347 --> 00:25:16,641
it was closing time at La Cage.
405
00:25:17,141 --> 00:25:19,018
Was it one of your regular bars?
406
00:25:20,395 --> 00:25:24,148
And struck up a conversation
with this, uh, Black guy.
407
00:25:25,733 --> 00:25:28,486
-What was his name?
-I think his name was Tony.
408
00:25:28,570 --> 00:25:29,988
I think.
409
00:25:30,071 --> 00:25:32,615
That's what he told me
his name was anyway.
410
00:25:32,699 --> 00:25:33,741
Tony.
411
00:25:40,915 --> 00:25:44,669
Tony Sears was about 23 or 24.
412
00:25:44,752 --> 00:25:46,754
Tony Sears was a model.
413
00:25:46,838 --> 00:25:48,548
He was very attractive,
414
00:25:49,132 --> 00:25:52,302
and he was always immaculately dressed.
415
00:25:52,385 --> 00:25:54,762
Had the most beautiful hair.
416
00:25:54,846 --> 00:25:57,432
Back in the day,
we called them Jheri curls.
417
00:25:58,308 --> 00:26:00,685
He was always upbeat,
always energetic.
418
00:26:01,728 --> 00:26:06,316
He was always out for an adventure,
always wanted to do something new.
419
00:26:06,399 --> 00:26:09,444
You just never knew
where your night was gonna go,
420
00:26:09,527 --> 00:26:11,821
but you knew
you were gonna have a good time.
421
00:26:13,031 --> 00:26:14,449
Tony did not have a car,
422
00:26:15,033 --> 00:26:16,826
and so I would go pick him up,
423
00:26:16,909 --> 00:26:18,995
and we would go out to the bars.
424
00:26:24,208 --> 00:26:26,294
So it was a typical Saturday night.
425
00:26:26,377 --> 00:26:28,087
I picked him up at his apartment.
426
00:26:29,213 --> 00:26:31,090
And we were barhopping.
427
00:26:32,383 --> 00:26:35,803
Some point through the evening,
we decided to go our separate ways.
428
00:26:36,888 --> 00:26:39,182
We had our agreement
that at the end of the night,
429
00:26:39,265 --> 00:26:41,225
we're gonna meet at this spot.
430
00:26:43,019 --> 00:26:44,145
So that's what we did.
431
00:26:47,398 --> 00:26:49,359
When the end of the evening came,
432
00:26:49,442 --> 00:26:52,779
we met up back right on the corner
that we always did.
433
00:26:54,739 --> 00:26:56,824
And he had this other guy with him.
434
00:26:59,077 --> 00:27:02,538
He wasn't over good-looking.
I wouldn't say he was ugly.
435
00:27:02,622 --> 00:27:04,415
He had just blond hair.
436
00:27:04,916 --> 00:27:06,751
Uh, he was wearing glasses.
437
00:27:08,169 --> 00:27:11,464
We just sat on the corner
and talked a bit about our evenings,
438
00:27:11,547 --> 00:27:14,717
who we bumped into, where we went.
That sort of thing.
439
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,303
Tony wanted to go to breakfast
440
00:27:17,387 --> 00:27:20,765
'cause he always wanted to have fun,
never wanted the night to end.
441
00:27:22,767 --> 00:27:24,602
We had a really nice breakfast,
442
00:27:24,686 --> 00:27:27,188
and then we're dropping them off.
443
00:27:27,271 --> 00:27:29,148
He said it was at his house.
444
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,027
He had a friend, a white man, with him.
445
00:27:33,111 --> 00:27:35,029
And his friend had a car.
446
00:27:35,738 --> 00:27:38,032
And then during the car ride,
447
00:27:38,116 --> 00:27:41,369
he's very affectionate,
apparently very drunk.
448
00:27:42,453 --> 00:27:43,663
And we drove
449
00:27:45,248 --> 00:27:46,999
to 57th and Lincoln.
450
00:27:48,418 --> 00:27:51,504
He had me drop them off
just at the corner.
451
00:27:53,381 --> 00:27:57,176
There was no specific house or anything.
It was literally an intersection.
452
00:27:57,969 --> 00:28:00,638
Then they hopped out.
I said goodbye to Tony
453
00:28:00,722 --> 00:28:03,307
and reminded him
that if he needed a ride to call me
454
00:28:03,391 --> 00:28:05,268
before such and such a time.
455
00:28:05,351 --> 00:28:07,937
They just walked up the street,
and I drove off.
456
00:28:13,943 --> 00:28:16,279
When you did go out that night, though,
457
00:28:16,362 --> 00:28:19,407
and you met this guy,
and you decided he seemed a nice guy.
458
00:28:19,490 --> 00:28:20,366
Hmm.
459
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:23,661
What came into your mind
that you wanted to ask him back?
460
00:28:23,745 --> 00:28:27,915
Did you become fearful in any way
that it was gonna happen again?
461
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,837
Hm. No. I… I thought that
it would just be a regular night.
462
00:28:33,546 --> 00:28:34,714
I brought him back.
463
00:28:34,797 --> 00:28:37,508
My judgment isn't always so good
when I'm drinking,
464
00:28:37,592 --> 00:28:39,177
especially when I drink a lot.
465
00:28:39,927 --> 00:28:43,014
Jeffrey brought Tony Sears
to his grandmother's house
466
00:28:43,097 --> 00:28:45,516
in West Allis,
where he was residing at the time.
467
00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:50,438
And we went up to the bedroom
468
00:28:50,938 --> 00:28:52,648
and laid around.
469
00:28:53,357 --> 00:28:55,276
He was making some comments
470
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:58,196
about it getting to be early,
and he'd have to leave.
471
00:28:59,864 --> 00:29:03,493
I went down and made a cup of coffee
472
00:29:03,576 --> 00:29:04,869
with the pills.
473
00:29:08,956 --> 00:29:10,208
He fell asleep,
474
00:29:11,793 --> 00:29:14,378
and that's when I strangled him.
475
00:29:16,547 --> 00:29:18,466
His grandmother slept through it,
had no idea.
476
00:29:20,927 --> 00:29:23,513
His wanting to have a companion
477
00:29:23,596 --> 00:29:25,348
but not wanting them to leave
478
00:29:25,848 --> 00:29:28,309
was very big.
It was very powerful for him.
479
00:29:30,728 --> 00:29:33,773
Did it ever
get into your mind at that time
480
00:29:33,856 --> 00:29:36,943
that in fact, you had lost him
rather than keeping him?
481
00:29:37,527 --> 00:29:38,486
Hmm.
482
00:29:39,362 --> 00:29:42,615
I suppose that that realization
did hit me, yeah, but--
483
00:29:42,698 --> 00:29:44,784
-When?
-After they were dead.
484
00:29:44,867 --> 00:29:46,202
How did that feel?
485
00:29:46,953 --> 00:29:49,497
Unfulfilling.
It felt like a waste.
486
00:29:50,915 --> 00:29:53,876
He always had a way that he found
487
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,962
to dispose of the bodies.
488
00:29:56,462 --> 00:29:58,881
He had a nice-looking face, so I…
489
00:29:58,965 --> 00:30:01,259
With the head, I cut that off,
490
00:30:01,801 --> 00:30:04,929
put it in a large, white barrel,
491
00:30:05,012 --> 00:30:06,889
filled it up with acetone,
492
00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:09,892
and that preserved the head.
493
00:30:10,685 --> 00:30:12,311
Why did you do that this time?
494
00:30:12,395 --> 00:30:16,232
Well, just branching out
into different variations.
495
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:24,448
He kept the full head, not just the skull,
496
00:30:24,532 --> 00:30:26,617
and he also kept his genitals.
497
00:30:27,326 --> 00:30:30,413
And he put them in an airtight container.
498
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,624
And he put it in his locker
499
00:30:33,708 --> 00:30:36,002
at the chocolate plant where he worked.
500
00:30:36,502 --> 00:30:37,795
Most of this time,
501
00:30:37,879 --> 00:30:40,965
Dahmer was sitting
in a correctional institution,
502
00:30:41,048 --> 00:30:44,427
at least at night,
and was on work release.
503
00:30:44,510 --> 00:30:47,388
This was safer than having it
at Grandma's house,
504
00:30:47,471 --> 00:30:50,016
where somebody could stumble upon it.
505
00:30:52,393 --> 00:30:54,979
You kept
the genitals, and you kept the head?
506
00:30:55,062 --> 00:30:55,897
Mm-hmm.
507
00:30:55,980 --> 00:30:58,399
Did you still feel
as though you had your companion?
508
00:30:59,108 --> 00:31:02,069
This all is so bizarre
sounding now to me.
509
00:31:06,365 --> 00:31:07,783
You think you loved Tony?
510
00:31:07,867 --> 00:31:11,996
Yeah, I could say that if I knew
how to love, I would have loved him.
511
00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:15,082
It was a matter of trying
to preserve what I had left of him.
512
00:31:15,166 --> 00:31:17,084
-What were you hoping for?
-Um…
513
00:31:17,168 --> 00:31:20,630
I hoped he would just dry out
and stay looking like he did in life,
514
00:31:20,713 --> 00:31:23,049
but it didn't work out that way.
515
00:31:23,132 --> 00:31:27,553
By that time, it was fairly obvious
that it didn't look like Tony anymore.
516
00:31:27,637 --> 00:31:30,264
-It was just all shriveled up.
-Okay.
517
00:31:31,807 --> 00:31:33,476
But did it still excite you?
518
00:31:37,563 --> 00:31:40,608
No, not as much.
The excitement was wearing off.
519
00:31:50,409 --> 00:31:53,496
I was contacted by Tony's sister.
520
00:31:53,579 --> 00:31:56,999
They called and just asked
if I'd heard anything from Tony.
521
00:31:57,500 --> 00:32:00,169
And I told them,
I said, "No. We were out on Saturday."
522
00:32:00,252 --> 00:32:03,214
"I haven't heard from him."
And that was kind of our conversation.
523
00:32:03,798 --> 00:32:06,133
I would say probably a day or two later,
524
00:32:06,217 --> 00:32:09,762
I got another call that they wanted
to file a missing persons report.
525
00:32:11,347 --> 00:32:13,516
Because they hadn't heard anything at all.
526
00:32:17,228 --> 00:32:20,147
In the beginning,
I was the… the prime suspect
527
00:32:20,231 --> 00:32:22,650
for the reason that I was
the last person to see Tony alive.
528
00:32:25,194 --> 00:32:28,239
Tony's family would ask me things like,
529
00:32:28,948 --> 00:32:31,242
"Are you giving us all the details?"
530
00:32:31,325 --> 00:32:33,869
"Does this other person really exist?"
531
00:32:33,953 --> 00:32:35,871
"Or were you just with Tony?"
532
00:32:35,955 --> 00:32:39,959
It was questions like that that started
to take a turn with the family.
533
00:32:42,211 --> 00:32:45,131
I also had a lot of friends
that I had for quite some time
534
00:32:45,214 --> 00:32:47,341
that started thinking the same thing.
535
00:32:47,425 --> 00:32:50,344
That, you know,
maybe I had done something to Tony.
536
00:32:51,470 --> 00:32:54,765
Then the police came back
and started coming to visit me,
537
00:32:54,849 --> 00:32:56,684
and starting asking questions.
538
00:32:56,767 --> 00:33:01,522
More about what happened that night,
where we went, where he was dropped off.
539
00:33:02,982 --> 00:33:06,068
One of the things that I was forced to do
540
00:33:06,152 --> 00:33:07,737
during the investigation
541
00:33:08,237 --> 00:33:10,823
was go with police officers
542
00:33:11,490 --> 00:33:13,242
to the different bars
543
00:33:13,325 --> 00:33:15,286
to see if I could recognize
544
00:33:15,369 --> 00:33:18,205
who this blond mystery person was.
545
00:33:20,958 --> 00:33:24,837
At that time, the relationship
between the gay community and the police
546
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,464
was not the greatest at all.
547
00:33:26,547 --> 00:33:31,010
I thought for sure they would send
at least plain-clothed officers.
548
00:33:31,093 --> 00:33:34,263
They were in full uniform.
Guns, hats, badges.
549
00:33:34,346 --> 00:33:35,806
You know, he whole thing.
550
00:33:37,808 --> 00:33:40,269
I actually had some of the bar owners
ask me,
551
00:33:40,352 --> 00:33:43,147
"You really don't need
to come back here," type thing.
552
00:33:43,981 --> 00:33:47,318
The friends are all questioning
what's going on and what's happening.
553
00:33:47,401 --> 00:33:50,529
So at… at some point through all that,
554
00:33:50,613 --> 00:33:54,825
um, I decided I had to kind of just
get a fresh start.
555
00:33:56,452 --> 00:33:59,538
I basically left
my life in Milwaukee behind
556
00:33:59,622 --> 00:34:01,332
and moved out of the city.
557
00:34:04,418 --> 00:34:06,003
I really cared for Tony.
558
00:34:07,254 --> 00:34:08,964
Tony was a great guy.
559
00:34:09,048 --> 00:34:12,593
You know, I figured he and I were gonna
be friends for quite some time,
560
00:34:13,094 --> 00:34:14,095
and, um…
561
00:34:15,012 --> 00:34:16,097
I'm sorry.
562
00:34:19,308 --> 00:34:21,227
You know, there's a lot of "what-ifs."
563
00:34:25,231 --> 00:34:26,857
Just the fact that
564
00:34:27,942 --> 00:34:30,528
some of my actions
that I did that evening…
565
00:34:31,237 --> 00:34:32,113
Um…
566
00:34:34,698 --> 00:34:36,492
I helped this happen to Tony.
567
00:34:37,576 --> 00:34:40,788
You know, I kinda wish…
I wish could take it all back
568
00:34:40,871 --> 00:34:43,499
and make the evening end
in a different way.
569
00:34:57,429 --> 00:34:59,849
While Jeff Dahmer remains
in police custody,
570
00:34:59,932 --> 00:35:02,309
held on multiple homicide charges,
571
00:35:02,393 --> 00:35:05,312
the DA's office has already started
its investigation
572
00:35:05,396 --> 00:35:08,983
into the formal case
against the alleged murderer.
573
00:35:10,067 --> 00:35:12,736
A few days after he was arrested,
574
00:35:12,820 --> 00:35:16,740
my boss, Gerry Boyle, wanted someone
to walk through the apartment.
575
00:35:16,824 --> 00:35:20,828
He just wanted to make sure that
we were watching what they were doing.
576
00:35:21,871 --> 00:35:23,998
And I was nominated as such.
577
00:35:25,166 --> 00:35:28,836
Walking up to the door to his apartment
578
00:35:28,919 --> 00:35:30,421
and going inside,
579
00:35:30,504 --> 00:35:34,508
what went through my mind was,
"How could anybody ever live in here?"
580
00:35:36,093 --> 00:35:39,180
The mattress was still there,
sopping in blood.
581
00:35:40,264 --> 00:35:42,766
The carpeting, uh, bloodstains.
582
00:35:43,267 --> 00:35:45,019
Wall, bloodstains.
583
00:35:46,103 --> 00:35:50,524
The odor in there
was a culmination of death,
584
00:35:50,608 --> 00:35:52,860
with the humidity, the blood.
585
00:35:52,943 --> 00:35:54,028
It was awful.
586
00:35:55,571 --> 00:35:57,615
I had to leave and luckily,
587
00:35:57,698 --> 00:35:59,450
at the end of the hallway
588
00:35:59,533 --> 00:36:01,869
was a fire exit with a staircase,
589
00:36:01,952 --> 00:36:04,205
so I could run out there and, um…
590
00:36:05,331 --> 00:36:07,124
the gagging turned into throwing up.
591
00:36:08,667 --> 00:36:10,169
I was the only woman.
592
00:36:10,669 --> 00:36:12,546
The male officers that were there,
593
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:14,924
they all stood there,
and they all laughed.
594
00:36:15,007 --> 00:36:17,009
They're like, "How you doing on this now?"
595
00:36:17,092 --> 00:36:19,637
"You wanted to come to a crime scene.
This is what we get."
596
00:36:21,347 --> 00:36:22,681
It was, um…
597
00:36:23,432 --> 00:36:25,017
terrifying to see
598
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:26,977
that this was real.
599
00:36:29,438 --> 00:36:30,940
Who knows? At that point,
600
00:36:31,023 --> 00:36:34,526
you know, maybe all of this was a facade
and him being polite to me.
601
00:36:34,610 --> 00:36:36,612
And I started to think about that.
602
00:36:37,279 --> 00:36:39,281
What he couldn't control,
603
00:36:39,365 --> 00:36:41,242
his own little demon inside,
604
00:36:41,325 --> 00:36:43,994
is what we actually saw in his apartment.
605
00:36:58,717 --> 00:37:01,095
After I got out
of the work release center,
606
00:37:01,178 --> 00:37:04,098
I moved out of Grandma's
and into this apartment.
607
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:08,978
While I was looking for an apartment
that looked halfway decent,
608
00:37:10,229 --> 00:37:13,649
I saw the Oxford Apartments,
and, uh walked in.
609
00:37:13,732 --> 00:37:16,568
They had a "for rent" sign in front.
610
00:37:16,652 --> 00:37:19,029
And, uh, I moved in
611
00:37:19,113 --> 00:37:20,906
in May of '90, I guess.
612
00:37:22,408 --> 00:37:24,952
Had the movers bring my TV, and uh…
613
00:37:25,911 --> 00:37:30,791
and a big chest that I had
with all my possessions in it.
614
00:37:30,874 --> 00:37:32,501
Things you had at Grandma's house?
615
00:37:32,584 --> 00:37:36,005
Mm-hmm.
In my mind, I had my own place,
616
00:37:36,088 --> 00:37:38,132
someplace nice and private
617
00:37:38,215 --> 00:37:41,010
where I could just take someone back,
618
00:37:41,093 --> 00:37:43,721
drug them, and then strangle them.
619
00:37:52,229 --> 00:37:55,441
Milwaukee has always been
one of those types of cities
620
00:37:55,524 --> 00:37:57,568
where it's very hypersegregated.
621
00:37:59,695 --> 00:38:02,156
Blacks lived on one side of the town,
622
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,617
while whites lived on the other side
of the town and in the suburbs.
623
00:38:07,036 --> 00:38:11,415
And Dahmer lived in this apartment complex
called the Oxford Apartments,
624
00:38:12,541 --> 00:38:16,587
but it was a lot of African Americans
who lived in that building.
625
00:38:22,593 --> 00:38:24,845
The first time that I met Jeff
626
00:38:26,221 --> 00:38:30,309
we had been living there
for maybe… maybe two weeks or so.
627
00:38:31,602 --> 00:38:34,313
And he made it known to me
628
00:38:34,396 --> 00:38:37,316
that he had just moved from West Allis,
629
00:38:37,399 --> 00:38:40,110
and that he had broken up
with his girlfriend.
630
00:38:41,737 --> 00:38:43,447
And I took a liking to him
631
00:38:44,031 --> 00:38:46,325
because he looked so clean-cut.
632
00:38:47,076 --> 00:38:48,577
He looked so mild.
633
00:38:49,578 --> 00:38:51,914
He looked like a young Clark Kent.
634
00:38:53,165 --> 00:38:56,919
He was the only single white male
in the building.
635
00:38:58,670 --> 00:39:02,341
I never thought it to be strange or weird
636
00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:04,426
that he was there.
637
00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:06,720
To me, he was just an average guy
638
00:39:07,388 --> 00:39:09,264
trying to keep his head above water.
639
00:39:10,974 --> 00:39:12,393
There was one time
640
00:39:13,102 --> 00:39:15,396
when I did try to introduce him
641
00:39:15,479 --> 00:39:16,688
to a lady.
642
00:39:18,357 --> 00:39:21,735
She lived downstairs,
and she had a crush on Jeff.
643
00:39:23,028 --> 00:39:24,905
And so she told me, she said,
644
00:39:24,988 --> 00:39:27,658
"Why don't you see
if your neighbor across the hall
645
00:39:27,741 --> 00:39:29,827
wanna come over and play cards with us?"
646
00:39:31,662 --> 00:39:33,539
So I went and knocked on his door.
647
00:39:34,498 --> 00:39:38,544
I said, "I'm over here playing cards.
Hey, man, I'm getting my butt kicked."
648
00:39:39,211 --> 00:39:40,712
"You know, by these women."
649
00:39:40,796 --> 00:39:44,174
"I could really use another guy
who would come and help me."
650
00:39:45,634 --> 00:39:48,720
And he straight out told me
that he didn't wanna come over.
651
00:39:49,471 --> 00:39:53,225
So I said, "Well, one of the women there,
she kind of like you."
652
00:39:53,308 --> 00:39:56,061
"And it'd be a chance
for you guys to talk."
653
00:39:57,771 --> 00:40:00,816
He flat-out told me
that he was not interested
654
00:40:00,899 --> 00:40:02,776
in talking to her.
655
00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:06,947
I thought, "Well, hey.
This guy must really, really be stuck on
656
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:09,700
that other woman in West Allis."
657
00:40:11,994 --> 00:40:14,913
It didn't take very long for me to notice
658
00:40:14,997 --> 00:40:16,832
that Jeff was a loner,
659
00:40:16,915 --> 00:40:19,168
and that he kept to himself.
660
00:40:19,251 --> 00:40:22,796
And he… he wasn't a party type guy.
661
00:40:23,630 --> 00:40:25,591
-You and Timmy.
-That's right.
662
00:40:25,674 --> 00:40:27,176
-And who is this?
-Jeff.
663
00:40:27,259 --> 00:40:28,635
-That's cousin Jeff.
-Hey.
664
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:29,553
Yes.
665
00:40:31,722 --> 00:40:33,974
Jeffrey was able to fool people
666
00:40:34,057 --> 00:40:36,685
in situations where it was
critically important to do that.
667
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:43,692
Looks like a bunch
of satisfied people sitting around here.
668
00:40:44,610 --> 00:40:46,987
Even with Grandma or his dad.
669
00:40:47,571 --> 00:40:50,741
Of course,
you woke up at what, eight this morning?
670
00:40:50,824 --> 00:40:55,621
Then you… you cleaned up your apartment
so you could show us what it looks like.
671
00:40:55,704 --> 00:40:58,165
Yeah, I want you to come over
if you feel like it.
672
00:40:58,248 --> 00:41:01,877
I haven't done any dusting or vacuuming.
I do that on Sundays.
673
00:41:03,212 --> 00:41:06,965
Dahmer could be an engaging person.
He enticed many people into his apartment.
674
00:41:09,343 --> 00:41:10,761
But they had no idea
675
00:41:10,844 --> 00:41:14,139
they were walking into a viper's nest
when they went to his apartment.
676
00:41:17,392 --> 00:41:20,604
Is this the first person
you took pictures of?
677
00:41:20,687 --> 00:41:21,939
Yeah, yeah.
678
00:41:22,773 --> 00:41:26,360
The nickname was "Cash D," I think.
I don't know his real name.
679
00:41:28,028 --> 00:41:31,406
What did you use to take
the pictures? You had a camera?
680
00:41:32,157 --> 00:41:35,202
It was a Polaroid.
A Polaroid camera.
681
00:41:36,745 --> 00:41:38,455
In Dahmer's apartment,
682
00:41:38,539 --> 00:41:41,333
there were a number of albums
that were present,
683
00:41:41,416 --> 00:41:46,380
and these were a series
of organized Polaroid photographs
684
00:41:46,463 --> 00:41:49,633
that depicted Dahmer's previous victims
685
00:41:50,175 --> 00:41:53,595
before, during, and after dissection.
686
00:41:54,888 --> 00:41:57,391
Jeffrey took the photos
687
00:41:57,474 --> 00:42:00,894
of individuals that he favored the most.
688
00:42:01,478 --> 00:42:05,274
He put them in different poses
because it would show the physique.
689
00:42:05,357 --> 00:42:08,527
There were various parts
of various individuals
690
00:42:08,610 --> 00:42:12,948
that he favored more than other ones,
and so he took photos of it.
691
00:42:14,366 --> 00:42:17,578
-How long did this last?
-About an hour.
692
00:42:17,661 --> 00:42:19,788
- Of just taking photographs?
-Mm-hmm.
693
00:42:21,206 --> 00:42:23,792
When I saw the Polaroids
that Jeffrey took,
694
00:42:23,875 --> 00:42:25,168
I… I was horrified.
695
00:42:25,877 --> 00:42:28,088
Some of them were very intense.
696
00:42:29,047 --> 00:42:31,800
To see people cut in real life,
697
00:42:31,883 --> 00:42:36,680
it takes on a whole different, uh, scope,
a whole different level.
698
00:42:38,181 --> 00:42:39,683
I had nightmares with it.
699
00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:43,812
But I wanted to stay professional.
700
00:42:46,231 --> 00:42:49,985
I… I was just thinking, you know,
"How am I gonna get through this?"
701
00:42:51,111 --> 00:42:52,946
"I don't have anybody
to talk to about it."
702
00:42:54,865 --> 00:42:58,243
It just
felt like a waste to me to destroy someone
703
00:42:58,327 --> 00:43:01,121
that looked so nice.
704
00:43:01,204 --> 00:43:03,582
But by that time, I had no choice.
705
00:43:03,665 --> 00:43:05,000
He was dead,
706
00:43:05,083 --> 00:43:08,253
and I had to find some way
to dispose of the remains.
707
00:43:10,339 --> 00:43:14,926
He now realized he had a different problem
than at he had at his grandmother's house
708
00:43:15,010 --> 00:43:17,429
because he wasn't gonna be able
to use a sledgehammer
709
00:43:17,512 --> 00:43:19,765
to break up bones in an apartment.
710
00:43:20,807 --> 00:43:22,809
A day or two later,
711
00:43:22,893 --> 00:43:27,147
I went out and bought
this large, 80-gallon kettle
712
00:43:27,898 --> 00:43:30,067
from one of the restaurant's supply.
713
00:43:31,151 --> 00:43:32,986
He could then boil
714
00:43:33,070 --> 00:43:35,447
what was left of the body.
715
00:43:36,615 --> 00:43:40,744
And this began
his more sophisticated production
716
00:43:40,827 --> 00:43:42,496
of body disposal.
717
00:43:44,373 --> 00:43:46,917
I mean, makes you sick
even talking about it,
718
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,087
but he'd get rid of the…
the bones in acid.
719
00:43:50,629 --> 00:43:52,881
That's why you got a huge barrel?
720
00:43:52,964 --> 00:43:54,841
So you could put
the acid in for the bones?
721
00:43:55,342 --> 00:43:57,260
Yeah, that… It was
722
00:43:57,886 --> 00:43:59,680
a trash barrel. It's…
723
00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:02,933
So you put the bones in there,
and it would just…
724
00:44:03,016 --> 00:44:05,102
Turn into a slush
725
00:44:05,185 --> 00:44:08,313
that then could be
scooped out into the toilet
726
00:44:08,397 --> 00:44:09,564
and flushed down.
727
00:44:10,565 --> 00:44:13,110
-What did you do with the skull?
-Kept that.
728
00:44:13,193 --> 00:44:15,946
-Where'd you keep it?
-In the closet area.
729
00:44:21,493 --> 00:44:25,539
Jeff became more than just
the neighbor across the hall.
730
00:44:28,542 --> 00:44:31,795
I liked him because I felt
that he had a soft heart.
731
00:44:32,796 --> 00:44:34,506
There was one time
732
00:44:34,589 --> 00:44:37,634
when my sister was getting married.
733
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,304
I didn't have any money
to get a gift for her.
734
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:44,391
I knocked on Jeff's door,
735
00:44:45,058 --> 00:44:49,271
and I told him, "You know, I'm getting
ready to go to my sister's wedding."
736
00:44:49,354 --> 00:44:53,191
And I said, "Is it possible you can
loan me some money to get her a gift?"
737
00:44:55,277 --> 00:44:56,820
He gave me $60.
738
00:44:57,362 --> 00:44:59,531
Told me, "Don't even worry about it."
739
00:45:00,407 --> 00:45:02,993
He said, "Get your sister something nice."
740
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:06,371
I knew nothing about his past.
741
00:45:07,581 --> 00:45:10,625
How many people know
what their neighbor does
742
00:45:10,709 --> 00:45:13,295
once they go inside and close their door?
743
00:45:13,795 --> 00:45:16,840
You can only go by
744
00:45:16,923 --> 00:45:18,341
what you see,
745
00:45:18,967 --> 00:45:22,304
and what you hear from out of their mouth.
746
00:45:33,857 --> 00:45:37,402
Jeff, what do we know
about the suspect? He's 31 years old?
747
00:45:37,486 --> 00:45:38,737
He's 31 years old.
748
00:45:38,820 --> 00:45:41,698
Neighbors talked briefly about him
to me during the night.
749
00:45:41,782 --> 00:45:45,327
They said they didn't really know him.
They described him as strange, a loner,
750
00:45:45,410 --> 00:45:48,288
uh, but they did say he had a job
and worked every day.
751
00:45:50,540 --> 00:45:52,334
The night of his arrest,
752
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,671
we had no idea of why they were there.
753
00:45:57,506 --> 00:46:00,175
And when I asked one of the officers,
754
00:46:00,884 --> 00:46:02,219
"Is Jeff okay?"
755
00:46:02,844 --> 00:46:05,138
He said, "Yeah, that fucker's okay."
756
00:46:08,350 --> 00:46:09,851
I was standing there
757
00:46:10,936 --> 00:46:13,730
watching them take the body parts
758
00:46:13,814 --> 00:46:16,191
that were in little small boxes.
759
00:46:16,775 --> 00:46:19,611
A little bit bigger than a shoe box,
all brown.
760
00:46:19,694 --> 00:46:22,447
Taking the boxes out
two and three at a time.
761
00:46:22,531 --> 00:46:24,825
Two and three at a time,
taking the boxes out.
762
00:46:26,368 --> 00:46:29,412
Turns out that Jeff
763
00:46:29,496 --> 00:46:31,998
is actually Jeffrey Dahmer,
764
00:46:32,082 --> 00:46:34,292
who has murdered men
765
00:46:34,376 --> 00:46:36,795
inside apartment 213.
766
00:46:39,130 --> 00:46:42,342
The parts, box after box
of dismembered human remains,
767
00:46:42,425 --> 00:46:43,426
were taken away
768
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:46,137
Now the job is to identify the victims.
769
00:46:46,221 --> 00:46:48,765
At this time, we have no identifications
770
00:46:48,849 --> 00:46:52,227
on any of the, uh, specimens
that we have recovered.
771
00:46:54,271 --> 00:46:57,816
At that time,
there was no such thing as DNA
772
00:46:57,899 --> 00:47:01,736
that was accessible
to a routine, regular medical examiner.
773
00:47:02,487 --> 00:47:05,740
So we were using dental analysis,
774
00:47:05,824 --> 00:47:07,576
and fingerprints,
775
00:47:07,659 --> 00:47:09,578
and personal effects,
776
00:47:09,661 --> 00:47:13,415
uh, tattoos, surgical scars, etc.
777
00:47:13,498 --> 00:47:16,126
in our trying to identify these victims.
778
00:47:19,129 --> 00:47:21,631
Putting the skeletons back together
779
00:47:21,715 --> 00:47:23,717
was like putting a puzzle together.
780
00:47:25,594 --> 00:47:29,264
Forensic anthropologists
could tell us age, race, sex,
781
00:47:29,347 --> 00:47:33,476
and also help us interpret
some of the injuries that we were seeing.
782
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,103
Once investigators here
783
00:47:35,186 --> 00:47:38,815
are able to put together
physical descriptions of the victims,
784
00:47:38,899 --> 00:47:41,818
that information will be fed
into a computer
785
00:47:41,902 --> 00:47:46,031
and cross-referenced with the descriptions
of missing persons around the country.
786
00:47:46,948 --> 00:47:49,451
Now there had been reports
787
00:47:49,534 --> 00:47:52,329
of a number of missing persons
788
00:47:52,412 --> 00:47:54,748
over the previous year and a half.
789
00:47:55,373 --> 00:47:57,834
And so we had a manifest
790
00:47:57,918 --> 00:47:59,920
of potential victims.
791
00:48:00,545 --> 00:48:02,589
After Jeffrey was arrested,
792
00:48:02,672 --> 00:48:04,883
we have 300 calls a day from people
793
00:48:04,966 --> 00:48:07,802
asking what happened to their child,
794
00:48:07,886 --> 00:48:10,347
or if he knew anything
about their children.
795
00:48:10,931 --> 00:48:13,642
People are concerned tonight,
people who lived in the area,
796
00:48:13,725 --> 00:48:16,353
people who have loved ones
who have been missing in this case.
797
00:48:16,436 --> 00:48:18,313
They have started showing up
this afternoon
798
00:48:18,396 --> 00:48:21,358
at the scene of that crime
at 25th and Kilbourn.
799
00:48:21,441 --> 00:48:24,152
We were just out here looking,
just by chance.
800
00:48:24,235 --> 00:48:27,739
It might not be so, but it might be so.
We're looking for leads ourself.
801
00:48:28,531 --> 00:48:32,953
We would check
with the medical examiner
802
00:48:33,036 --> 00:48:35,413
who tried to put the parts together.
803
00:48:36,456 --> 00:48:38,583
Once we had that information,
804
00:48:39,376 --> 00:48:41,419
and if we had a picture of him,
805
00:48:41,503 --> 00:48:43,546
we would show the photos to Dahmer
806
00:48:43,630 --> 00:48:46,466
in an attempt to identify these people.
807
00:48:47,467 --> 00:48:49,219
It was a monumental task.
808
00:48:49,761 --> 00:48:53,056
He would explain in great detail
every victim.
809
00:48:53,848 --> 00:48:57,852
There certainly were victims
that we would not have been able
810
00:48:57,936 --> 00:49:01,690
to connect to Dahmer
without his cooperation.
811
00:49:01,773 --> 00:49:04,192
Henry Smith has searched
for his brother in gay bars
812
00:49:04,275 --> 00:49:06,277
in both Milwaukee and Chicago,
813
00:49:06,361 --> 00:49:08,238
but so far has turned up nothing.
814
00:49:09,197 --> 00:49:12,784
It was often you walk in a bar
and people say,
815
00:49:13,785 --> 00:49:16,079
"Child! Another one missing."
816
00:49:16,162 --> 00:49:18,832
And you say, "What? Who's missing now?"
817
00:49:18,915 --> 00:49:21,334
Because Milwaukee's so small,
818
00:49:22,168 --> 00:49:24,045
especially the Black gays.
819
00:49:24,879 --> 00:49:28,591
So if you didn't see somebody
for two, three weeks,
820
00:49:28,675 --> 00:49:30,218
you figured they'd moved.
821
00:49:32,262 --> 00:49:34,431
But then it was almost
822
00:49:35,015 --> 00:49:38,268
I would say weekly,
somebody else was saying,
823
00:49:38,351 --> 00:49:39,769
"So and so is gone."
824
00:49:41,104 --> 00:49:44,065
I was seeing Eddie Smith all the time.
825
00:49:44,816 --> 00:49:47,986
And all of a sudden, he was gone.
826
00:49:48,570 --> 00:49:51,823
Me myself, I don't…
I don't think he's out there.
827
00:49:51,906 --> 00:49:55,243
Carolyn Smith is praying
that her fears don't come true.
828
00:49:55,326 --> 00:49:59,539
Her 28-year-old brother Eddie
was last seen a year ago on June 16,
829
00:49:59,622 --> 00:50:02,667
the day he went to go watch
Milwaukee's Gay Pride parade.
830
00:50:03,251 --> 00:50:05,587
Eddie's sister came to the bar.
831
00:50:06,671 --> 00:50:09,466
She would ask people. She had pictures.
832
00:50:09,549 --> 00:50:12,552
She was like,
"He would have called somebody."
833
00:50:12,635 --> 00:50:15,847
"I know he would have called me.
I talk to my brother every day."
834
00:50:16,806 --> 00:50:19,350
While Ernest Miller
grew up here in Milwaukee,
835
00:50:19,434 --> 00:50:22,395
he was about to return to Chicago
when he suddenly disappeared.
836
00:50:23,688 --> 00:50:26,274
Ernest Miller, another young man.
837
00:50:26,357 --> 00:50:28,443
Ernest had a good soul.
838
00:50:28,985 --> 00:50:30,528
He was very creative.
839
00:50:30,612 --> 00:50:34,949
So of course, when Ernest came up missing,
that was talk in the bars too.
840
00:50:35,700 --> 00:50:38,203
Eighteen-year-old
Curtis Straughter lived in this home
841
00:50:38,286 --> 00:50:39,871
with his grandmother on the north side.
842
00:50:39,954 --> 00:50:42,582
She last saw him about five months ago.
843
00:50:45,919 --> 00:50:47,378
In those days,
844
00:50:47,462 --> 00:50:51,299
you could buy cigarettes
in a cigarette machine in the bars.
845
00:50:52,842 --> 00:50:58,306
They used to have missing persons posters
on the cigarette machine.
846
00:50:59,182 --> 00:51:02,644
These were missing posters of adults
who had completely vanished.
847
00:51:02,727 --> 00:51:06,356
And their family members, their friends
were trying to track them down.
848
00:51:06,439 --> 00:51:08,650
Fight back! Fight AIDS!
849
00:51:08,733 --> 00:51:12,153
But the years in which Dahmer
was most active in Milwaukee
850
00:51:12,237 --> 00:51:13,780
coincide with years
851
00:51:13,863 --> 00:51:17,951
where the number of AIDS deaths
in Wisconsin increased ten times over.
852
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,621
So people would literally just disappear.
853
00:51:23,039 --> 00:51:24,499
Were they dead?
854
00:51:24,582 --> 00:51:27,669
Were they sick? Had they moved away?
No one would know.
855
00:51:27,752 --> 00:51:30,255
Gay rights right now!
Gay rights right now!
856
00:51:30,338 --> 00:51:31,840
Gay rights right now!
857
00:51:31,923 --> 00:51:33,758
Dahmer had a rare opportunity,
858
00:51:34,717 --> 00:51:36,636
a rare window in time
859
00:51:39,013 --> 00:51:41,432
where people were vanishing
in the community,
860
00:51:43,268 --> 00:51:44,561
but no one knew why.
861
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,064
Jeffrey Dahmer was known
to the Hughes family too.
862
00:51:48,148 --> 00:51:50,483
Friends of Tony Hughes, a deaf-mute,
863
00:51:50,567 --> 00:51:53,528
have told Tony's mother and sister
that they saw Tony leave this bar
864
00:51:53,611 --> 00:51:54,946
with a blond man.
865
00:52:04,164 --> 00:52:07,458
Tony was unable to hear or speak,
866
00:52:07,542 --> 00:52:09,043
but he'd write notes.
867
00:52:09,127 --> 00:52:11,754
He always had a pad and paper.
868
00:52:12,547 --> 00:52:15,383
Whenever you were in his presence,
you wanted to have fun
869
00:52:15,466 --> 00:52:17,051
because he was having fun.
870
00:52:18,970 --> 00:52:22,557
Tony knew Jeff for a long time.
871
00:52:23,766 --> 00:52:28,062
And Tony and Jeff had had relations.
872
00:52:28,146 --> 00:52:30,106
Tony told me so.
873
00:52:32,233 --> 00:52:35,820
It was Memorial Day weekend of 1991.
874
00:52:38,364 --> 00:52:39,991
Tony Hughes and I
875
00:52:40,533 --> 00:52:43,703
were together in a bar called The Phoenix.
876
00:52:44,954 --> 00:52:47,582
We were sitting at the bar
having cocktails,
877
00:52:48,208 --> 00:52:50,877
and Jeff came in the back door.
Jeffrey Dahmer.
878
00:52:52,712 --> 00:52:54,255
When Jeff walked in,
879
00:52:54,797 --> 00:52:58,384
Tony got up from the bar
and approached him.
880
00:53:00,428 --> 00:53:05,225
Tony left me and went
to follow Jeff on the dance floor.
881
00:53:06,976 --> 00:53:09,687
And that was the last time
I saw Tony Hughes.
882
00:53:19,447 --> 00:53:21,950
Jeff discussed
all of the victims with me.
883
00:53:23,034 --> 00:53:26,496
However, it takes time
to get that rapport and that trust
884
00:53:26,579 --> 00:53:29,290
until you really feel like you can discuss
885
00:53:29,374 --> 00:53:32,543
all those inside secrets with people.
886
00:53:34,963 --> 00:53:37,215
With the deaf-mute guy,
887
00:53:37,924 --> 00:53:40,260
I wanted to keep him with me,
888
00:53:41,219 --> 00:53:44,806
so I gave him the drink
with the pills in it.
889
00:53:45,348 --> 00:53:46,849
He fell asleep,
890
00:53:46,933 --> 00:53:49,894
and I wanted to see
891
00:53:49,978 --> 00:53:52,188
if I could, uh, think of a way
892
00:53:52,272 --> 00:53:53,982
to keep him with me
893
00:53:54,065 --> 00:53:57,068
without actually, you know, killing him.
894
00:53:57,902 --> 00:54:02,073
Once we got to that point
where he felt real comfortable with me,
895
00:54:02,156 --> 00:54:05,243
there was, in fact, additional things
that came out from him
896
00:54:05,326 --> 00:54:07,537
that didn't come out with the police.
897
00:54:08,496 --> 00:54:10,290
And so, uh…
898
00:54:10,373 --> 00:54:11,708
I had a drill at home.
899
00:54:12,500 --> 00:54:13,876
And, uh…
900
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,670
It's gonna sound bad,
901
00:54:16,296 --> 00:54:17,171
but, uh…
902
00:54:18,047 --> 00:54:20,216
Should I say it or not?
903
00:54:21,884 --> 00:54:23,886
I took the drill while he was asleep
904
00:54:23,970 --> 00:54:27,056
and drilled a small hole in his skull,
905
00:54:27,682 --> 00:54:29,017
to see if I could,
906
00:54:30,018 --> 00:54:32,145
uh, make it so that he would, uh…
907
00:54:32,937 --> 00:54:36,149
just sorta be like, uh, in a zombie state.
908
00:54:37,984 --> 00:54:41,112
I think he truly believed
that if he could keep one of them alive,
909
00:54:41,195 --> 00:54:43,323
like doing this crude lobotomy,
910
00:54:43,406 --> 00:54:46,784
that it would be sufficient
to satisfy his needs.
911
00:54:48,578 --> 00:54:50,079
I was flabbergasted.
912
00:54:50,163 --> 00:54:53,541
I mean, to hear that
was more than I could stand.
913
00:54:53,624 --> 00:54:56,794
In fact, one of the psychologists, uh,
914
00:54:56,878 --> 00:54:59,088
that we were working with,
915
00:54:59,172 --> 00:55:02,008
uh, Kenneth Smail, I… I made him stay.
916
00:55:02,091 --> 00:55:04,385
Jeff, where did you get that idea?
917
00:55:04,469 --> 00:55:07,638
Uh,
it came from my own thoughts.
918
00:55:09,015 --> 00:55:10,099
Uh…
919
00:55:10,183 --> 00:55:13,728
Just in my own thinking
that I thought maybe it would work,
920
00:55:13,811 --> 00:55:15,480
because I didn't wanna keep
921
00:55:16,439 --> 00:55:20,276
killing people and not have anything left
except the skull.
922
00:55:22,779 --> 00:55:26,157
He wanted to take the person's will away
is the way he would put it.
923
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:28,618
It's astounding. It's jaw-dropping.
924
00:55:29,952 --> 00:55:33,247
He then injected muriatic acid
925
00:55:33,331 --> 00:55:35,291
through that hole in the skull.
926
00:55:36,959 --> 00:55:39,879
Mr. Hughes died from that injection.
927
00:55:39,962 --> 00:55:42,340
It wasn't necessary to strangle him later.
928
00:55:43,508 --> 00:55:46,260
And Dahmer kept the skull long term.
929
00:55:46,803 --> 00:55:48,721
In fact, that was one of the skulls
930
00:55:48,805 --> 00:55:51,140
still in his apartment
at the time of his arrest.
931
00:55:57,897 --> 00:55:59,482
It saddens me
932
00:55:59,565 --> 00:56:01,234
every time I think about
933
00:56:01,317 --> 00:56:03,069
any of those gentlemen.
934
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,115
Because like everybody else
during that time,
935
00:56:07,198 --> 00:56:09,158
they were trying to find themselves.
936
00:56:10,451 --> 00:56:12,662
They weren't expecting to get killed.
937
00:56:13,621 --> 00:56:15,748
These were, in most cases,
938
00:56:15,832 --> 00:56:18,960
uh, poor, gay men
939
00:56:19,544 --> 00:56:22,547
who probably didn't have
a large support system,
940
00:56:23,172 --> 00:56:26,467
or whose support system
when they said that,
941
00:56:26,551 --> 00:56:28,052
"My loved one is missing,"
942
00:56:28,136 --> 00:56:31,472
the attention was not given to them
the way it should've been.
943
00:56:33,015 --> 00:56:35,768
Authorities are wondering
how anyone could have committed
944
00:56:35,852 --> 00:56:36,686
these gruesome acts,
945
00:56:36,769 --> 00:56:40,106
just as others in Milwaukee are wondering
how police couldn't have known.
946
00:56:40,189 --> 00:56:44,235
Especially since Dahmer was
a convicted sex offender out on parole.
947
00:56:47,947 --> 00:56:49,949
I was in the bars often.
948
00:56:50,741 --> 00:56:52,869
Nobody asked me about anybody.
949
00:56:53,453 --> 00:56:57,081
I didn't have any police officer,
any detective,
950
00:56:57,165 --> 00:56:58,583
come up to me and say,
951
00:56:58,666 --> 00:57:01,294
"What do you know
about this person or that person?"
952
00:57:02,503 --> 00:57:05,506
This wasn't a couple of months
or a couple of weeks.
953
00:57:06,632 --> 00:57:08,176
This went on for years.
954
00:57:08,968 --> 00:57:11,721
How could one man kill
so many for so long
955
00:57:11,804 --> 00:57:13,848
without being detected by police?
956
00:57:13,931 --> 00:57:17,643
The answer in part, according to some,
is a law-enforcement community
957
00:57:17,727 --> 00:57:20,521
which is slow to investigate
gay-related crime.
958
00:57:21,606 --> 00:57:24,484
If the victims had been white
959
00:57:24,567 --> 00:57:25,776
and straight,
960
00:57:26,861 --> 00:57:30,198
the search would have been more in-depth,
961
00:57:30,281 --> 00:57:31,741
more specific.
962
00:57:32,366 --> 00:57:33,826
Bitter charges of racism,
963
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:36,412
a belief many of the killings
could've been stopped.
964
00:57:36,496 --> 00:57:38,289
It just shows you the feeling
965
00:57:38,372 --> 00:57:41,209
towards the minority community,
like we're a burden.
966
00:57:42,001 --> 00:57:44,879
The families that didn't think
the police did enough…
967
00:57:46,672 --> 00:57:49,008
To be honest, I think
some of them might have had a point.
968
00:57:49,091 --> 00:57:51,344
I think there was this feeling,
969
00:57:51,427 --> 00:57:53,346
it's a 20-year-old guy
970
00:57:53,429 --> 00:57:56,307
that was going to the bars
and picking up guys.
971
00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:58,851
And so who knows where he is?
972
00:58:00,436 --> 00:58:03,481
There's a real question
as to whether the police department
973
00:58:03,564 --> 00:58:05,942
sufficiently followed up
on those missing people.
974
00:58:06,609 --> 00:58:09,403
Did they just assume
that they were into trouble
975
00:58:09,487 --> 00:58:11,572
and not worth following up on?
976
00:58:11,656 --> 00:58:14,408
If they would have listened
to people of color,
977
00:58:14,492 --> 00:58:18,037
they could have really saved
a lot of young people's lives.
978
00:58:18,829 --> 00:58:23,668
I went out
and bought a five-foot square freezer.
979
00:58:23,751 --> 00:58:26,629
What made you think
that you wanted to do this?
980
00:58:27,547 --> 00:58:30,508
Because I was preparing
for more.