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[eerie music playing]
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-[phone rings]
[dispatcher] Fire department.
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[woman] Yes, could you send an ambulance
on the corner of 25th and State?
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[dispatcher] What's the problem?
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[woman] There's this butt-naked young boy
or man, or whatever.
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He's still out, and people's trying
to help him stand. He can't stand.
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He has no clothes on. He's very hurt.
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-[dispatcher] Is he awake?
-[woman] He ain't awake.
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They trying to get him to walk,
but he can't walk straight,
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can't even see straight.
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-[woman] Anytime he stand up, he falls.
-[dispatcher speaking indistinctly]
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[dispatcher] 25th and State?
[woman] Yeah.
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[dispatcher] All right. Okay.
[woman] The one-way. Okay. Bye.
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[tape rolling]
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[police sirens wailing]
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What happened that night,
it's unbelievable.
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[McCann] Here's this young man, naked,
outside Dahmer's apartment building.
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He had not a stitch of clothing on.
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Two people summoned
the fire department and the police
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because some of them saw he had blood
running out of his rectum.
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[Anne Schwartz]
He had a scrape on his knee.
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He was clearly dazed from something.
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[Causey] Why is this boy,
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naked, bleeding, and incoherent
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on the streets of Milwaukee?
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[theme music playing]
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[uneasy music playing]
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We had a mall called the Grand Avenue,
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and Jeffrey Dahmer
was in the mall all the time.
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We would see him in the food court,
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walking up and down the mall.
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He took pictures of people,
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and he'd say,
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"You look like a model.
Want me to take your picture?"
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[tape rolling]
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Dahmer was sitting
having pizza and a beer
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when he saw an attractive young man,
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Konerak Sinthasomphone, come by,
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whom he engaged in conversation.
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He offered the young man $50
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to pose for pictures.
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And the young man
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agreed to go back
to Dahmer's apartment with him.
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[Meuler] In the apartment,
Dahmer hands him this drink
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with the amount of Halcion
that was able to
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render him unconscious for a while.
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Dahmer wanted to keep this victim alive
as long as he could.
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[Dr. Smail] In my sessions with him,
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Mr. Dahmer told me what he wanted
was somebody perfectly compliant,
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who would stay with him
without fear of leaving.
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[Jeffrey from recorder] There were a few
where I tried the drilling technique.
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And I did the drilling with him too.
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[Dr. Smail] You did?
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[Jeffrey] Mm-hmm.
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[Dr. Smail] At what point?
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-Uh…
-Before the officers came or after?
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[Jeffrey] Yeah, before the officers came.
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Jeffrey told me about, uh, Konerak,
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and how he made some adjustments
and changes in his method
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in an effort to make him into a zombie
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that would actually live.
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[Dr. Dietz] Dahmer drilled a hole
in his skull,
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injected muriatic acid
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and was waiting to see
if he'd succeeded this time,
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because the others
died from that injection.
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[Dr. Smail] How far
you think you penetrated with the drill?
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-[Jeffrey] All the way to the brain.
-[Dr. Smail] Two or three inches?
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-[Jeffrey] Yeah.
-[Dr. Smail] And you went straight down?
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-[Jeffrey] Right. Mm-mm.
-[Wendy] Nothing came out?
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-[Dr. Smail] No fluid of any kind?
-[Jeffrey] No fluid that I could see.
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And no bleeding either.
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[Wendy] Konerak actually was able
to function to a limited degree.
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[Jeffrey playing from recorder]
He was groggy and everything.
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He wasn't dead or anything, and he talked.
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I thought maybe I'd be able
to keep him that way.
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Jeff would just tell him
what he wanted him to do, and it worked.
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What Jeff didn't take into consideration
was the fact
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that he might run
outside of the apartment.
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Dahmer went out to get liquor.
He often did while doing these crimes.
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In this particular case,
he left to get some beer at a nearby bar.
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[Anne] While Dahmer is out getting beer,
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Konerak takes the opportunity
to run out of the house
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and up the alley.
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That's when a neighbor
looks out her window and sees him.
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The women call the police.
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The police arrive,
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and Konerak is now sitting
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with a blanket around him at the scene.
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And the officers are approaching
to find out what's going on.
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[Causey] Police officers tried
to question Konerak.
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Konerak can't really communicate
his side of the story
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'cause he's been drugged.
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[Boyle] There was nothing
that would indicate
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that there was a hole in his head
that Dahmer put there.
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There was no blood flowing from it.
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And while that was going on,
Dahmer came up the street.
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These young women interceded.
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They asked Konerak,
"What's your name?" He couldn't talk.
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[indistinct police radio]
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That's when they got between them
and said, "Stay away from him."
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Two 18-year-old Black girls
protecting him from Dahmer.
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The police don't listen to those girls.
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They didn't even take their names.
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Kept telling them to be quiet. That they'd
arrest them if they kept talking.
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Dahmer grabbed his arm and said,
"No, he's my boyfriend,"
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and started to take him back.
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[Causey] Dahmer figured that,
as a white guy,
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"I could tell these officers
my version of the story."
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And I have to believe he believed that
because he knew that,
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"I'm white,
and I could get away with this."
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[Wendy] Jeffrey always had
a quick response.
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It seemed kind of natural to him
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to have that ability to manipulate
and get himself out of bad situations.
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[Boyle] Now you got a naked guy
out in the streets,
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making noises.
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The police thought
he was drunker than a billy goat.
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So what did they do?
They don't just leave him.
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They take him into a place of safety,
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the apartment from whence he came.
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So they go into the apartment.
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Konerak sat on the couch
as if this was his place.
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Konerak's clothes
are all in a little pile,
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neatly laid out
somewhere in the living room.
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[Causey] Dahmer shows the officers
photographs that he took of this young man
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and said that was…
You know, that was his lover.
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[Boyle] They say, "We're not gonna arrest
these two guys for being gay."
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"Ain't gonna happen."
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[Dr. Dietz] And they left Sinthasomphone
on the couch at Dahmer's home
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and never looked in the bedroom.
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[Anne] Little do those officers know
that in Dahmer's bedroom,
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Tony Hughes's dead body
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is on the bed just laying there.
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The police left, and shortly thereafter
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Dahmer injected more of this acid
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into the brain of Konerak Sinthasomphone.
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[Wendy from recorder] What you put in?
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[Jeffrey] Konerak, I filled a syringe
with muriatic acid.
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I used the acid again in a lesser dosage,
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but it was still too much the second time
after I injected the second amount in.
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[ominous music playing]
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[Crocker Stephenson] One of the girls
who tried to protect Konerak
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went home and told her mother,
Glenda Cleveland.
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[tape rolling]
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[dial tone rings]
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-[cop] Milwaukee Police.
-[Glenda] Yes, uh…
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Uh, there was a squad car, number 50,
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that was flagged down earlier
this evening, about 15 minutes ago.
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-[cop] That was me.
-[Glenda] What happened?
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I mean, my daughter and my niece, uh,
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witnessed what was going on.
Was anything done about the situation?
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[cop] Nope. It's an intoxicated,
uh, boyfriend
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of another boyfriend.
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[Glenda] How old was this child?
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-[cop] It wasn't a child. It was an adult.
[Glenda] Are you sure?
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[cop] Ma'am, I can't make it
any more clear. It's all taken care of.
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[ominous music playing]
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Sinthasomphone died.
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He died within an hour
after the police left the apartment.
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Konerak Sinthasomphone
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was 14 years old and was
one of the youngest of Dahmer's victims.
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[Boyle] If they thought for a moment
that he was at risk,
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they would never have let him
go back with Dahmer, ever.
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The police officers had been told
to be respectful
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of the gay community in Milwaukee.
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And I think they probably were thinking
they were being respectful,
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and not bringing a heterosexual bias
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to the situation.
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[Ross] Whatever the police did,
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obviously, it wasn't enough.
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[Causey] You have a number
of African Americans
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basically saying
that this young man is underage,
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that he didn't appear
to be in his right state of mind.
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People say they were doing their jobs,
just doing the best they could.
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That falls very far short
of what they should have done.
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If they'd run his name,
they'd have found he was on probation
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for assaulting a Laotian boy,
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who would turn out
to be Konerak's brother.
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How… How does this happen?
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[reporter] Twice victimized
by Jeffrey Dahmer,
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one of Konerak's brothers had been
molested by Dahmer three years ago.
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The family came to America 11 years ago
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with dreams of a better life.
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Instead, Jeffrey Dahmer
has given them a grisly nightmare.
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He said, "It… It seems
almost more than coincidence."
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However, it was something
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that really shocked Jeff
when he heard that.
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He just was… was floored by it.
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[Jeffrey from recorder] The Eurasians,
it's just amazing they were brothers.
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It's… It's incredible.
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I can't believe it.
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-[Wendy] Are you saying it's his brother?
-[Jeffrey] Mm-hmm.
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-[Wendy] You know what his name was?
-[Jeffrey] No.
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Sure don't.
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It's a horrible tragedy
for the Sinthasomphone family.
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A sexual assault victim
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and a separate murder victim
in the same family.
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It's hard to fathom
what that family had to go through
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at the hands of Jeffrey Dahmer.
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[tape rolling]
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[Anne] After Dahmer was arrested
in July of '91,
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the community was in an uproar
when they found out
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that the police had released Konerak
back to Dahmer.
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[phone ringing]
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[Crocker] Glenda Cleveland
called the police station
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again and again over the next week or so.
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She said,
"My daughter saw this boy naked,"
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just believing that he had been
sexually assaulted.
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I was a young reporter at the Sentinel
when the Dahmer case broke.
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Somebody wanted to talk about Dahmer,
and I said, "I can talk to you."
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The person on the phone
was Glenda Cleveland.
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She tells me this story
that they had tried to protect this boy,
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and the police wouldn't listen to them.
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I called a captain at the police station.
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I was expecting him to just deny it,
but they didn't.
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They said, "Yes,
this matter's under investigation."
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How could the police
give that boy back to that man?
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[Walter Farrell] They handed that
minority male back to Dahmer,
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but they took the word of the white male
over five Black witnesses.
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I have concluded that the officers failed
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to properly perform their duties
as required by the rules and regulations
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of the Milwaukee Police Department.
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[Anne] The two police officers,
John Balcerzak and Joe Gabrish,
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were fired from the Milwaukee
Police Department.
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[Causey] It was turmoil in
the police department. The city was torn.
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Some people supported the officers.
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We are behind our police officers 100%.
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[clapping]
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[reporter] Much of the white community
is not convinced
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that racism is a problem
in the police department.
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They are rallying behind the police,
even as the charges grow louder.
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I personally feel that there is
equal and fair treatment done
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throughout the community by our officers.
They're trained that way.
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I don't think that the officers
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made a decision based upon any race,
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any homophobia.
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00:13:46,869 --> 00:13:50,289
Obviously in retrospect,
the officers made a mistake,
237
00:13:50,372 --> 00:13:53,208
but there was a lot of people
that Dahmer had conned.
238
00:13:53,292 --> 00:13:55,586
And he conned those officers that night.
239
00:13:55,669 --> 00:13:58,505
And I'm sure those officers
240
00:13:58,589 --> 00:14:01,133
have second-guessed that many times.
241
00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:08,098
[Anne] People have pointed
to the radio transmission by the officers
242
00:14:08,724 --> 00:14:11,310
right after the contact.
243
00:14:12,144 --> 00:14:14,396
[cop] The intoxicated Asian naked male…
244
00:14:14,479 --> 00:14:16,064
[cops laughing]
245
00:14:16,148 --> 00:14:20,319
[cop] …was returned
to his sober boyfriend.
246
00:14:20,402 --> 00:14:24,114
It'll be a minute. My partner's
gonna get deloused at the station.
247
00:14:24,197 --> 00:14:26,283
You hear officers
laughing in the background.
248
00:14:26,366 --> 00:14:28,994
I think that what they did was a travesty.
249
00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:36,043
[Causey] That gets back to the root
of how we view homosexuality.
250
00:14:36,126 --> 00:14:38,921
Gay people were made fun of.
They were the butt of the joke.
251
00:14:40,339 --> 00:14:43,091
[Anne] But then the two police officers
252
00:14:43,175 --> 00:14:46,386
went to circuit court
to appeal their firing.
253
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:48,305
The court agreed with them,
254
00:14:48,972 --> 00:14:51,350
reinstated them with back pay.
255
00:14:53,185 --> 00:14:55,270
[Fleming] The Konerak Sinthasomphone case
256
00:14:55,354 --> 00:14:57,522
shed a spotlight on Milwaukee.
257
00:14:58,315 --> 00:15:01,860
This was telling them a lot
about their community.
258
00:15:01,944 --> 00:15:05,238
It was telling them a lot
about the police protection
259
00:15:05,322 --> 00:15:06,698
that they were offered.
260
00:15:07,366 --> 00:15:09,242
This was a very scary episode.
261
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,580
[tape rolling]
262
00:15:14,414 --> 00:15:15,999
[suspenseful music playing]
263
00:15:21,421 --> 00:15:25,384
After Mr. Dahmer
killed, uh, this young Laotian lad,
264
00:15:26,385 --> 00:15:28,762
bodies were piling up in his apartment.
265
00:15:30,847 --> 00:15:34,101
[Anne] Dahmer went on
to kill four more people.
266
00:15:35,060 --> 00:15:38,021
[Crocker] At first, it was nine years
between his homicides.
267
00:15:38,105 --> 00:15:41,316
Then it was months.
After Konerak, it was weeks.
268
00:15:43,151 --> 00:15:45,445
[Jeffrey from recorder]
An hour before I had to go to work,
269
00:15:45,529 --> 00:15:48,532
I was trying to decide
whether to strangle him then,
270
00:15:48,615 --> 00:15:51,076
or keep him alive during the night.
271
00:15:51,868 --> 00:15:54,663
And I chose the latter and missed work.
272
00:15:56,039 --> 00:15:59,042
And was fired that Sunday.
273
00:15:59,126 --> 00:16:01,086
And that was the domino.
274
00:16:01,169 --> 00:16:04,589
The first domino that started
the whole chain reaction falling.
275
00:16:08,927 --> 00:16:11,221
[Vernell Bass]
He had started drinking more
276
00:16:11,304 --> 00:16:13,640
and spiraling down.
277
00:16:15,851 --> 00:16:18,895
I noticed that I wasn't seeing him
278
00:16:19,896 --> 00:16:22,399
as often as before he lost his job.
279
00:16:24,359 --> 00:16:29,072
And I would actually go
to knock on his door to check on him.
280
00:16:29,656 --> 00:16:33,827
And I would notice
the peephole would go dark.
281
00:16:35,495 --> 00:16:36,872
Then it'd go back light.
282
00:16:37,372 --> 00:16:39,541
And I knew that he came to the door,
283
00:16:39,624 --> 00:16:40,876
and that he saw me.
284
00:16:40,959 --> 00:16:43,962
He knew that it was me
knocking on the door,
285
00:16:44,755 --> 00:16:46,631
and he didn't open the door for me.
286
00:16:47,132 --> 00:16:49,968
So I… I took it upon myself
287
00:16:50,052 --> 00:16:53,013
to think that he wanted me to go away,
288
00:16:53,847 --> 00:16:55,015
which I did.
289
00:16:57,809 --> 00:17:01,396
[Wendy] A couple of the doctors said,
"Yes, he was definitely an alcoholic."
290
00:17:02,397 --> 00:17:04,107
He had an addictive personality.
291
00:17:04,983 --> 00:17:08,528
I think he had
the same addiction to the killing.
292
00:17:08,612 --> 00:17:11,490
As it grew and grew and grew,
293
00:17:11,573 --> 00:17:14,201
he needed it more and more and more.
294
00:17:14,284 --> 00:17:16,161
He reached a point of time
295
00:17:16,244 --> 00:17:19,706
where he was consistently having to go out
296
00:17:19,790 --> 00:17:23,502
and deal with yet another individual,
297
00:17:23,585 --> 00:17:26,880
and not disposing of the other ones
he'd already killed.
298
00:17:28,548 --> 00:17:31,093
[Jeffrey plays from recorder] When I was
dismembering him in the tub,
299
00:17:31,176 --> 00:17:33,386
I didn't finish the job in one night.
300
00:17:34,596 --> 00:17:37,390
I was in too much of a rush
to get it done.
301
00:17:42,020 --> 00:17:46,274
[Boyle] He was getting so overwhelmed
with what he was doing
302
00:17:46,358 --> 00:17:49,528
that he had no more control of the scene.
303
00:17:50,862 --> 00:17:54,241
[Wendy] He was showering with two people
in the bottom of the tub.
304
00:17:54,741 --> 00:17:58,495
I asked him, "Why didn't you get rid of
the bodies before you went after another?"
305
00:17:58,578 --> 00:18:01,248
He said, "I couldn't help it.
I needed the excitement of it."
306
00:18:02,874 --> 00:18:05,168
It was important that I was nonjudgmental,
307
00:18:05,752 --> 00:18:09,089
and that I didn't put him into a position
308
00:18:09,172 --> 00:18:11,007
that would stop him from talking.
309
00:18:11,967 --> 00:18:16,513
But hearing the graphic detail
from Jeffrey Dahmer
310
00:18:16,596 --> 00:18:19,099
was a challenge.
311
00:18:20,809 --> 00:18:23,103
-[from recorder] Did it excite you?
-[Jeffrey] Yeah, it did.
312
00:18:24,062 --> 00:18:26,439
Yeah, just to see the inside.
313
00:18:27,816 --> 00:18:30,026
[Wendy] It grew through time
314
00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:32,988
where it wasn't
just having sex with a corpse,
315
00:18:33,697 --> 00:18:36,908
but it was opening the viscera of the body
316
00:18:36,992 --> 00:18:40,287
and… and, uh, having sex right there
317
00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:42,873
with the insides of the person.
318
00:18:44,541 --> 00:18:46,543
There were times where it was
319
00:18:46,626 --> 00:18:49,963
very, very difficult to listen to,
320
00:18:50,547 --> 00:18:54,801
and to pretend like, you know,
uh, this isn't affecting me.
321
00:18:56,136 --> 00:18:58,972
[Jeffrey plays from recorder]
I almost got in trouble because
322
00:19:00,682 --> 00:19:03,310
that smell apparently alerted neighbors.
323
00:19:07,772 --> 00:19:11,026
[Bass] One night, I was sleeping,
324
00:19:11,109 --> 00:19:15,071
and this horrible smell
woke me up about 2:30 in the morning.
325
00:19:16,114 --> 00:19:17,574
And I opened the door,
326
00:19:17,657 --> 00:19:20,827
and I could see a mist.
327
00:19:22,245 --> 00:19:26,208
You ever watch a movie, a scary movie
where you're in the graveyard,
328
00:19:26,291 --> 00:19:30,295
and they got the, you know, coming up?
That's what I saw.
329
00:19:31,421 --> 00:19:32,547
I closed the door,
330
00:19:33,048 --> 00:19:36,384
I took a towel,
and I covered the bottom of the door.
331
00:19:36,468 --> 00:19:37,969
So then I went back to bed.
332
00:19:39,804 --> 00:19:43,850
And when I woke up,
I told my wife Pam about the smell,
333
00:19:43,934 --> 00:19:48,355
and she said, "I'm gonna find out today
where it's coming from."
334
00:19:50,273 --> 00:19:51,608
Later, she said,
335
00:19:51,691 --> 00:19:53,318
"I sniffed the door hinges."
336
00:19:53,401 --> 00:19:55,820
"And the smell's
coming from Jeff's apartment."
337
00:19:57,364 --> 00:20:03,245
She took a lawn chair, and she sat
in our apartment with our door open,
338
00:20:03,328 --> 00:20:05,330
waiting for Jeff to come home.
339
00:20:05,914 --> 00:20:09,334
When he came home,
she confronted him about the smell.
340
00:20:09,417 --> 00:20:12,879
And he said that his freezer
had quit working,
341
00:20:12,963 --> 00:20:16,007
and the meat spoiled in his freezer.
342
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:18,677
And so I asked him,
343
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,138
"Don't you got a warranty on that thing?
How long have you had it?"
344
00:20:23,431 --> 00:20:25,475
[Wendy from recorder]
Did they ever come and inquire?
345
00:20:26,101 --> 00:20:28,395
-[Jeffrey] Yeah, they did.
-[Wendy] What happened?
346
00:20:28,478 --> 00:20:31,106
[Jeffrey] I told them
the freezer went on the blink.
347
00:20:35,986 --> 00:20:39,948
[Dr. Dietz] He used a variety of means
to keep what he could
348
00:20:40,949 --> 00:20:43,201
of the men he found attractive.
349
00:20:43,285 --> 00:20:46,579
And that included
taking photographs of them
350
00:20:46,663 --> 00:20:48,999
when they were unconscious or dead,
351
00:20:49,499 --> 00:20:52,877
removing parts of them
that he would preserve.
352
00:20:52,961 --> 00:20:56,589
And it included eventually
353
00:20:56,673 --> 00:20:58,967
some cannibalization.
354
00:21:00,385 --> 00:21:02,762
[Wendy from recorder] Did you select
what you decided to keep?
355
00:21:02,846 --> 00:21:04,097
How did you select that?
356
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,892
[Jeffrey] Just the meatiest-looking parts.
357
00:21:07,976 --> 00:21:10,687
The parts with the least amount of fat.
358
00:21:11,646 --> 00:21:14,899
-[Wendy] So the biceps, thighs, calves?
-[Jeffrey] Right. Mm-hmm.
359
00:21:17,152 --> 00:21:21,364
[man] The eating of victims is part of
the very disturbed thinking that developed
360
00:21:21,448 --> 00:21:25,702
once Mr. Dahmer gave up on the idea
that he could fight the urge to kill.
361
00:21:28,163 --> 00:21:31,082
There were various body parts
he'd thought about eating,
362
00:21:31,166 --> 00:21:32,751
including a human heart.
363
00:21:34,210 --> 00:21:36,755
[Wendy from recorder] So you took out
the heart and the liver,
364
00:21:36,838 --> 00:21:39,257
and you preserved that and his thigh.
365
00:21:39,341 --> 00:21:41,134
What did you do with the rest of it then?
366
00:21:41,217 --> 00:21:44,387
[Jeffrey] I kept about 50 pounds.
The rest went in the trash.
367
00:21:44,471 --> 00:21:47,432
[Wendy] How many pounds
would you estimate you've eaten?
368
00:21:47,515 --> 00:21:48,975
Total, about…
369
00:21:50,226 --> 00:21:51,144
ten.
370
00:21:52,395 --> 00:21:54,898
At one point, he drank human blood, again,
371
00:21:54,981 --> 00:21:58,860
somehow thinking in his disturbed way
that this was gonna connect him
372
00:21:58,943 --> 00:22:01,529
with the blood of the people
that he was consuming.
373
00:22:02,030 --> 00:22:05,450
His thinking was,
"Somehow, if I ingest these souls,
374
00:22:05,533 --> 00:22:07,702
they will still live on through me."
375
00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:12,499
[Wendy from recorder] If anybody looked
it looked like you just stocked up.
376
00:22:12,582 --> 00:22:15,418
[Jeffrey] So it looked
just like supermarket meat.
377
00:22:16,294 --> 00:22:17,796
I froze it for a while.
378
00:22:17,879 --> 00:22:19,255
Maybe a month.
379
00:22:19,339 --> 00:22:21,341
Or not that long. A couple weeks.
380
00:22:22,926 --> 00:22:25,178
Oh my God. I had no idea
381
00:22:25,762 --> 00:22:29,224
that this is what was occurring
right across the hall
382
00:22:29,307 --> 00:22:30,767
from where we lived.
383
00:22:31,935 --> 00:22:35,063
Everyone in the building felt suckered.
384
00:22:36,481 --> 00:22:40,610
We all felt
that Jeffrey Dahmer had played us.
385
00:22:41,903 --> 00:22:43,613
It's really hard
386
00:22:44,364 --> 00:22:46,533
to become fond of someone
387
00:22:47,325 --> 00:22:53,289
to find out that actually
that person had a dagger in your back.
388
00:22:54,207 --> 00:22:56,418
I thought this guy was my friend.
389
00:23:01,131 --> 00:23:05,176
[reporter 1] People who live in the
building are in a state of shock tonight.
390
00:23:05,260 --> 00:23:06,845
They simply cannot believe
391
00:23:06,928 --> 00:23:10,682
that a crime of this magnitude
was going on right next door.
392
00:23:11,266 --> 00:23:14,394
[reporter 2] The race question in
the Jeffrey Dahmer story was raised today,
393
00:23:14,477 --> 00:23:16,396
since most of the murder victims
were Black,
394
00:23:16,479 --> 00:23:19,190
and since it happened
in a largely Black neighborhood.
395
00:23:19,274 --> 00:23:22,569
The racism is the key
because the consistent thing,
396
00:23:22,652 --> 00:23:25,488
above the sex with the corpse,
above the number,
397
00:23:25,572 --> 00:23:26,990
is the consistency
398
00:23:27,073 --> 00:23:29,409
that these were Black young men.
399
00:23:30,285 --> 00:23:33,621
Dahmer said his ideal victim
was a young, athletic Black male,
400
00:23:34,747 --> 00:23:37,459
but his first two victims were white.
401
00:23:37,542 --> 00:23:40,753
He had Hispanic victims.
He had Asian victims.
402
00:23:41,463 --> 00:23:45,341
He was attracted to people of color.
This wasn't some hate crime.
403
00:23:45,425 --> 00:23:48,136
He was trying
to become involved intimately
404
00:23:48,219 --> 00:23:50,889
with the sort of person
towards whom he was attracted.
405
00:23:52,724 --> 00:23:55,185
[Causey] I don't know
what was in Dahmer's mind.
406
00:23:56,978 --> 00:23:59,230
Was he a racist? Who cares?
407
00:23:59,314 --> 00:24:00,815
He killed Black people.
408
00:24:00,899 --> 00:24:02,650
He killed people of color.
409
00:24:02,734 --> 00:24:04,110
He killed gay people.
410
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,281
In my opinion,
what matters is that he took the lives
411
00:24:08,364 --> 00:24:11,910
of a lot of people
that should still be alive today.
412
00:24:14,496 --> 00:24:15,705
[tape rolling]
413
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:27,425
With today's technology, the trial
will be beamed through outer space
414
00:24:27,509 --> 00:24:29,969
to other countries in a matter of seconds.
415
00:24:30,053 --> 00:24:32,972
The line people in England have used
is that Jeffrey Dahmer
416
00:24:33,056 --> 00:24:36,351
has made sure that Milwaukee's
not just gonna be famous for beer.
417
00:24:36,434 --> 00:24:38,728
It's now gonna be famous
for serial killers.
418
00:24:40,313 --> 00:24:44,234
[Jeff Fleming] Dahmer confessed
to killing 17 people altogether.
419
00:24:46,110 --> 00:24:48,154
Dahmer entered a plea of guilty.
420
00:24:48,238 --> 00:24:52,242
The only issue now
was whether he was sane or insane.
421
00:24:52,325 --> 00:24:55,453
Dahmer's plea was,
"Yes, I did the murders, but I'm insane."
422
00:24:57,163 --> 00:24:58,831
[Fleming] The trial was a big event.
423
00:24:58,915 --> 00:25:02,627
It had drawn a lot of reporters.
Family members were there.
424
00:25:04,796 --> 00:25:08,091
It was now, you know, the big show.
425
00:25:09,467 --> 00:25:13,596
Michael McCann was the DA at the time
that conducted the trial for the state.
426
00:25:18,101 --> 00:25:20,603
[Mccann] Gerry Boyle
was Dahmer's defense attorney,
427
00:25:20,687 --> 00:25:23,314
and a powerhouse
in delivering an argument to a jury.
428
00:25:23,398 --> 00:25:25,400
And I knew he'd be a tough guy.
429
00:25:26,609 --> 00:25:30,196
[Anne] I can still remember what
it was like to sit with the other media
430
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,614
at the Milwaukee County Courthouse
431
00:25:31,698 --> 00:25:35,326
when we were waiting
for Dahmer's initial appearance in court.
432
00:25:36,369 --> 00:25:40,915
This was going to be the first time
that we were going to see him in person.
433
00:25:43,126 --> 00:25:46,671
We were expecting like,
you know, maybe Charles Manson,
434
00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:49,757
but Dahmer was a good-looking man.
435
00:25:51,092 --> 00:25:52,552
He was subdued.
436
00:25:53,344 --> 00:25:57,307
He… didn't look like a serial killer.
437
00:25:59,183 --> 00:26:02,353
[Meuler] I think there was the hope
from Dahmer's father
438
00:26:02,437 --> 00:26:05,565
that there's some understanding
that he did this
439
00:26:05,648 --> 00:26:07,984
because of a mental disease.
440
00:26:08,818 --> 00:26:12,739
[Wendy] Lionel was hoping that the court
could give Jeffrey the help he needed.
441
00:26:13,239 --> 00:26:14,782
[clerk] Everyone please rise.
442
00:26:14,866 --> 00:26:16,242
[gavel bangs]
443
00:26:17,327 --> 00:26:21,289
Hear ye, Circuit court branch 33
in Milwaukee County's now in session,
444
00:26:21,372 --> 00:26:23,791
the Honorable Laurence C. Gram
here presiding.
445
00:26:24,334 --> 00:26:27,462
[Mccann] The burden to show the insanity
was on the defense.
446
00:26:28,713 --> 00:26:31,132
In an insanity plea,
the defense presents first.
447
00:26:31,215 --> 00:26:33,718
Very different from the typical
burden of proof.
448
00:26:34,594 --> 00:26:36,971
I accept the responsibility
449
00:26:37,055 --> 00:26:38,431
of proving to you
450
00:26:38,973 --> 00:26:41,684
that this was not an evil man.
451
00:26:41,768 --> 00:26:44,187
This was a sick man.
452
00:26:45,647 --> 00:26:48,566
My duty and my goal were to prove
453
00:26:48,650 --> 00:26:52,820
that he was insane
during the commission of these offenses.
454
00:26:52,904 --> 00:26:56,824
That when he killed somebody,
he was suffering from mental illness.
455
00:26:57,367 --> 00:27:00,453
And this is what I see
about this Jeffrey Dahmer
456
00:27:01,287 --> 00:27:03,039
as a total human being.
457
00:27:03,581 --> 00:27:06,918
A person who's into fantasy, drugging,
458
00:27:07,001 --> 00:27:09,337
keeping skulls in locker, cannibalism,
459
00:27:09,420 --> 00:27:12,215
sexual urges, drilling,
making zombies, necrophilia.
460
00:27:13,091 --> 00:27:16,052
[Fleming] Of course,
by an average person's view
461
00:27:16,552 --> 00:27:19,722
he was insane. He was a cannibal.
He was a serial killer.
462
00:27:20,223 --> 00:27:23,476
But by the criminal standard of insanity,
463
00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:25,978
was he insane?
464
00:27:26,062 --> 00:27:29,732
Did he meet the legal definition?
That was an open question.
465
00:27:29,816 --> 00:27:33,653
Before a person can be found insane
under the law,
466
00:27:34,779 --> 00:27:38,157
he must suffer
from a mental illness or defect,
467
00:27:38,241 --> 00:27:41,869
and they lack substantial capacity
468
00:27:41,953 --> 00:27:45,164
to understand the difference
between right and wrong.
469
00:27:45,248 --> 00:27:49,335
Or they're unable to control their conduct
470
00:27:49,419 --> 00:27:51,295
to the requirements of the law.
471
00:27:52,255 --> 00:27:57,176
I went to Chicago, and I got Dr. Wahlstrom
and was able to bring him in on the case.
472
00:27:57,260 --> 00:28:00,471
The defendant's personality structure,
473
00:28:00,555 --> 00:28:03,766
his underlying way
of looking at the world and himself,
474
00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:06,102
is diagnosed and meets the criteria
475
00:28:06,185 --> 00:28:08,896
for schizotypal
and borderline personality disorders.
476
00:28:08,980 --> 00:28:10,231
[Boyle] Tell us what that means.
477
00:28:10,982 --> 00:28:15,278
They have frantic attempts
to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
478
00:28:15,361 --> 00:28:16,988
And in this case,
479
00:28:17,071 --> 00:28:20,825
it's the most extreme example
of those kind of frantic attempts.
480
00:28:21,409 --> 00:28:24,245
[Wendy] Dahmer didn't want people
to leave him,
481
00:28:24,328 --> 00:28:25,747
but to stay with him.
482
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:29,667
That feeling of abandonment,
I think a part of that goes to
483
00:28:29,751 --> 00:28:33,421
why he kept the body parts of his victims.
484
00:28:34,005 --> 00:28:36,340
He saved the bones. He saved the skulls.
485
00:28:37,091 --> 00:28:39,177
He saved the hands.
486
00:28:39,761 --> 00:28:43,514
Jeff indicated that it…
it was for a shrine.
487
00:28:45,725 --> 00:28:47,935
[Jeffrey plays from recorder]
I have this pedestal.
488
00:28:48,019 --> 00:28:50,313
This black pedestal.
489
00:28:50,897 --> 00:28:55,902
And I had a, uh,
black, round top on top of it,
490
00:28:55,985 --> 00:28:59,447
and I had the skulls
set up on top of that, around it.
491
00:29:02,033 --> 00:29:04,994
It was just, uh, a remembrance of, uh…
492
00:29:06,579 --> 00:29:09,332
the people.
A keepsake of each one of them.
493
00:29:11,501 --> 00:29:15,129
It was my own, yeah,
private little world. Yeah.
494
00:29:17,381 --> 00:29:19,091
I had complete control.
495
00:29:22,011 --> 00:29:25,139
That's about the ultimate control
you can have.
496
00:29:30,728 --> 00:29:33,314
[Wendy] This is, in fact,
497
00:29:33,397 --> 00:29:35,316
the picture of what he drew.
498
00:29:38,945 --> 00:29:41,197
And as you see here,
499
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,241
he signed it below.
500
00:29:44,534 --> 00:29:46,661
[from recorder]
Did you feel by keeping the skulls,
501
00:29:46,744 --> 00:29:50,248
and if you would've
actually accomplished this shrine,
502
00:29:50,331 --> 00:29:52,917
that you would've felt less lonely,
503
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,378
like you were being kept company,
that they were there?
504
00:29:55,461 --> 00:30:00,216
[Jeffrey] I think that
must have, yeah, been, uh, my thinking.
505
00:30:02,426 --> 00:30:06,514
[Wendy] Jeffrey's building the shrine
was all about power and control for him.
506
00:30:06,597 --> 00:30:10,643
And that each trait that he liked
out of each one of them
507
00:30:10,726 --> 00:30:14,063
was something that was now
internalized into his own life.
508
00:30:14,146 --> 00:30:18,109
That was a bizarre delusion
that he thought that he could take
509
00:30:18,192 --> 00:30:22,697
the skulls and the bones of victims
510
00:30:23,781 --> 00:30:26,450
and create a power center
511
00:30:26,534 --> 00:30:29,787
in which he would be able
to get special powers.
512
00:30:29,871 --> 00:30:32,623
We're trying to win an insanity defense.
513
00:30:32,707 --> 00:30:34,625
This was where he lost control.
514
00:30:35,293 --> 00:30:37,461
We're trying to show that, you know,
515
00:30:37,545 --> 00:30:40,172
he didn't have
that rational thought anymore.
516
00:30:42,508 --> 00:30:45,344
[Berlin] I believe he had
a mental disease, necrophilia,
517
00:30:45,428 --> 00:30:49,015
a very rare and, uh, possibly dangerous
psychiatric condition.
518
00:30:49,974 --> 00:30:53,311
This is a human being
with a horrible psychiatric disorder
519
00:30:53,394 --> 00:30:56,939
who is really struggling very hard
not to allow that disorder
520
00:30:57,023 --> 00:31:00,026
to bring him to the point
where he's harming other people.
521
00:31:00,109 --> 00:31:01,569
Obviously, he lost that battle.
522
00:31:01,652 --> 00:31:03,112
In my professional opinion,
523
00:31:03,195 --> 00:31:06,908
Mr. Dahmer did lack substantial capacity
to conform his behavior
524
00:31:06,991 --> 00:31:08,659
to the requirements of law.
525
00:31:08,743 --> 00:31:12,330
But I believe they met, at that time,
the statutory requirements
526
00:31:12,413 --> 00:31:15,666
for an insanity defense.
And I still believe that today.
527
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:19,921
I was approached
by the district attorney's office
528
00:31:20,004 --> 00:31:22,131
to evaluate Mr. Dahmer.
529
00:31:22,214 --> 00:31:24,342
At the time of each of the killings,
530
00:31:24,425 --> 00:31:28,346
he did have the capacity
not to do the killing.
531
00:31:28,429 --> 00:31:32,308
There was no force pushing him to kill.
532
00:31:33,017 --> 00:31:35,186
There was merely a desire
533
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:37,688
to spend more time with the victim.
534
00:31:37,772 --> 00:31:40,983
If the victim had agreed voluntarily
to stay with him,
535
00:31:41,067 --> 00:31:43,152
he would not have done the killing.
536
00:31:43,235 --> 00:31:47,490
That's an indication
that he could control his behavior.
537
00:31:48,658 --> 00:31:51,535
I didn't think Dahmer had a mental disease
538
00:31:51,619 --> 00:31:53,329
or mental illness.
539
00:31:53,412 --> 00:31:54,956
Did he know it was wrong?
540
00:31:55,456 --> 00:31:58,584
Well, here's how I'm sure
he knew it was wrong.
541
00:31:58,668 --> 00:32:01,712
He said he knew it was wrong at that time.
542
00:32:02,546 --> 00:32:04,298
Every single one of them.
543
00:32:04,382 --> 00:32:08,260
He took steps for every single one
of the charged homicides
544
00:32:08,344 --> 00:32:10,972
to make sure that he wouldn't get caught.
545
00:32:11,055 --> 00:32:14,976
They included putting in
fake security cameras
546
00:32:15,059 --> 00:32:18,521
to deter people from breaking in
while he was at work.
547
00:32:18,604 --> 00:32:21,399
They included disposing of evidence.
548
00:32:21,482 --> 00:32:25,486
They included pulling the curtains
while he's dismembering bodies.
549
00:32:26,404 --> 00:32:29,907
The many, many steps
to try to evade detection.
550
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:32,827
And in order to kill,
551
00:32:32,910 --> 00:32:36,747
he had to overcome his inhibition
against it by getting drunk.
552
00:32:38,374 --> 00:32:40,459
[Mccann] All the psychiatrists
agreed basically
553
00:32:40,543 --> 00:32:43,045
that he was an alcoholic, necrophilic.
554
00:32:43,129 --> 00:32:47,049
Agreed he knew it was wrong,
but disagreed he couldn't control himself.
555
00:32:48,092 --> 00:32:50,886
[Wendy] For me, the trial was very
556
00:32:50,970 --> 00:32:52,513
anxiety-provoking.
557
00:32:53,139 --> 00:32:55,057
I was sitting next to… to Jeff.
558
00:32:55,141 --> 00:32:58,144
When he did have questions,
he would talk to me.
559
00:32:59,854 --> 00:33:03,607
Wendy Patrickus played a prominent role
to soften Jeffrey Dahmer's image.
560
00:33:04,275 --> 00:33:06,819
Having a young woman sitting there
561
00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:09,321
made Jeffrey Dahmer look
a little less threatening.
562
00:33:09,405 --> 00:33:12,158
And I think that was part of the intention
to show the jury
563
00:33:12,241 --> 00:33:16,287
that Jeffrey Dahmer was not quite
the monster many had made him out to be.
564
00:33:18,622 --> 00:33:21,208
[Wendy] I had issues during the course
565
00:33:21,292 --> 00:33:23,127
of representing Jeffrey Dahmer.
566
00:33:24,086 --> 00:33:27,423
I received death threats
from a number of different sources.
567
00:33:30,259 --> 00:33:34,764
There was really only one time I felt like
some of the threats became real.
568
00:33:35,931 --> 00:33:39,727
One of the victim's family members,
when I was out one night,
569
00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:41,771
came after me with a pool cue
570
00:33:41,854 --> 00:33:43,856
because I was representing Jeff.
571
00:33:44,648 --> 00:33:47,568
I said, "You do understand that's
just a job. That's a position."
572
00:33:47,651 --> 00:33:48,986
"I didn't kill your brother."
573
00:33:49,070 --> 00:33:53,532
Uh, she couldn't, or wouldn't,
discern the difference between the two.
574
00:33:53,616 --> 00:33:56,494
She just, you know, came after me.
575
00:33:57,203 --> 00:34:00,831
It did cause me to, uh,
escalate my concern
576
00:34:00,915 --> 00:34:02,333
during the trial,
577
00:34:02,875 --> 00:34:05,836
and pretty much
become a homebody at that point.
578
00:34:10,633 --> 00:34:14,053
Dahmer's father and stepmother
came every day to the trial.
579
00:34:14,887 --> 00:34:17,389
[Crocker] And you could tell
the trial got to them.
580
00:34:18,057 --> 00:34:21,268
Doctor would be on the stand
quoting from his confession,
581
00:34:22,311 --> 00:34:25,606
and it was the most appalling information.
582
00:34:26,857 --> 00:34:28,901
You'd see it on his father's face.
583
00:34:30,444 --> 00:34:33,572
And there Lionel Dahmer sat with Shari,
584
00:34:33,656 --> 00:34:34,824
his second wife,
585
00:34:34,907 --> 00:34:37,868
looking behind his son,
remaining behind his son.
586
00:34:41,330 --> 00:34:43,666
[Boyle] The trial went two weeks.
587
00:34:44,291 --> 00:34:46,418
He's out of control.
588
00:34:47,461 --> 00:34:50,381
He could not stop.
589
00:34:50,965 --> 00:34:53,425
He was a runaway train
590
00:34:54,552 --> 00:34:57,263
on a track of madness.
591
00:34:57,847 --> 00:35:00,099
It isn't, "Is he sane or insane?"
592
00:35:00,182 --> 00:35:04,186
It's, "Did he prove to a reasonable
certainty that he was insane?"
593
00:35:04,270 --> 00:35:06,397
If he didn't, the answer is no.
594
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,482
You don't have to make a finding
that he was sane.
595
00:35:08,566 --> 00:35:11,235
You're not being asked
to make a finding that he was sane.
596
00:35:11,318 --> 00:35:12,778
You're being asked to make a finding,
597
00:35:12,862 --> 00:35:15,948
"Did he prove to a reasonable certainty
that he was insane?"
598
00:35:16,031 --> 00:35:17,533
That's the issue before you.
599
00:35:18,576 --> 00:35:22,788
After all the testimony was in,
the jury went in to deliberate.
600
00:35:23,747 --> 00:35:26,625
[reporter] Is Dahmer legally not guilty
because of mental disease?
601
00:35:26,709 --> 00:35:28,794
That's what the jury must sort out.
602
00:35:28,878 --> 00:35:31,881
I think juries and people in general
are often concerned
603
00:35:31,964 --> 00:35:34,133
if someone's found
not criminally responsible,
604
00:35:34,216 --> 00:35:36,051
and they go to a mental institution,
605
00:35:36,135 --> 00:35:38,721
that they're gonna come out
and hurt people again.
606
00:35:38,804 --> 00:35:44,768
Even if you're successfully treated
while you're in a mental institution,
607
00:35:44,852 --> 00:35:48,022
the court would have to sign off
before you re-enter the community.
608
00:35:48,981 --> 00:35:52,735
In a case such as Mr. Dahmer's,
I find it exceedingly unlikely
609
00:35:52,818 --> 00:35:56,030
that a court would've approved him
going back into the community.
610
00:35:56,614 --> 00:35:59,241
[reporter] Few would place bets
on the decision they'll reach.
611
00:35:59,325 --> 00:36:01,035
They're gonna find him insane.
612
00:36:01,118 --> 00:36:03,454
I think they're probably gonna vote
that he's sane.
613
00:36:03,537 --> 00:36:05,748
[reporter] Which way do you think
the jury's gonna go?
614
00:36:05,831 --> 00:36:06,832
No clue.
615
00:36:06,916 --> 00:36:09,627
It went to the jury on Friday,
and it was late Saturday afternoon
616
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:11,545
before they came back.
617
00:36:11,629 --> 00:36:15,925
They looked at all the evidence.
They were very adamant in their decision.
618
00:36:16,008 --> 00:36:20,137
In a hushed courtroom in Milwaukee today,
the jury rendered its decision
619
00:36:20,221 --> 00:36:23,432
in one of the most grisly
and widely-followed murder trials
620
00:36:23,515 --> 00:36:24,975
in modern history.
621
00:36:25,059 --> 00:36:27,269
The verdict. Jeffrey Dahmer was sane
622
00:36:27,353 --> 00:36:29,980
when he killed and dismembered
men and boys
623
00:36:30,064 --> 00:36:33,734
in a gruesome quest for companionship
and sexual gratification.
624
00:36:34,568 --> 00:36:36,153
That's something that troubled me.
625
00:36:37,696 --> 00:36:42,034
If a man who is preoccupied
with having sex with corpses,
626
00:36:42,117 --> 00:36:45,037
if a man who's drilling holes
in the heads of human beings
627
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,457
to try to keep them alive
in a zombie-like state
628
00:36:49,416 --> 00:36:51,543
doesn't have a psychiatric disorder,
629
00:36:51,627 --> 00:36:54,505
then I don't know what we mean
by psychiatric disease.
630
00:36:54,588 --> 00:36:56,966
How many people does someone
have to eat in Milwaukee
631
00:36:57,049 --> 00:36:59,218
before they think
you have a mental disease?
632
00:37:02,137 --> 00:37:04,682
[Mccann] I've been trying cases
for 38 years as a DA.
633
00:37:04,765 --> 00:37:06,642
I don't find a… a celebratory feeling.
634
00:37:07,351 --> 00:37:08,894
Seventeen people died.
635
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,939
Seventeen families crushed and destroyed.
636
00:37:12,439 --> 00:37:14,108
There's just no room for elation.
637
00:37:15,067 --> 00:37:17,695
But I would've been crushed
if he had come back
638
00:37:17,778 --> 00:37:20,030
and found that he was insane.
639
00:37:21,532 --> 00:37:25,536
[Boyle] Dahmer had no reaction
to being found sane.
640
00:37:25,619 --> 00:37:27,705
No reaction whatsoever.
641
00:37:28,414 --> 00:37:29,248
None.
642
00:37:29,999 --> 00:37:32,293
[reporter 1] Ms. Dahmer,
do you have any comment?
643
00:37:32,376 --> 00:37:33,419
No.
644
00:37:33,502 --> 00:37:34,753
-[reporter 1] Mr. Dahmer?
-No.
645
00:37:36,088 --> 00:37:38,257
[reporter 2] We attempted
to talk to Dahmer's grandmother
646
00:37:38,340 --> 00:37:41,510
Catherine this morning,
but a sign is already posted on the door
647
00:37:41,593 --> 00:37:45,097
saying she is too weak and too troubled
to talk about the case.
648
00:37:45,180 --> 00:37:48,600
As far as the verdict is concerned,
it wasn't really very surprising.
649
00:37:48,684 --> 00:37:53,147
But I think he had a mental disease,
and he needed help.
650
00:37:53,230 --> 00:37:54,440
[tape rolling]
651
00:37:57,735 --> 00:38:00,154
[reporter 3] Families of his victims
wept with relief,
652
00:38:00,237 --> 00:38:03,324
knowing that Dahmer now faces
a probable prison sentence
653
00:38:03,407 --> 00:38:05,075
instead of a mental institution.
654
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:07,828
The case against Jeffrey Dahmer
comes to a close today
655
00:38:07,911 --> 00:38:11,165
when he is sentenced later this morning
in a Milwaukee courtroom.
656
00:38:11,665 --> 00:38:13,417
What do you expect
will happen this morning
657
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:15,586
in terms of Dahmer's sentencing?
658
00:38:15,669 --> 00:38:17,129
We first have the family speak.
659
00:38:17,212 --> 00:38:20,924
Under our state law, each family
has an opportunity to express to the court
660
00:38:21,008 --> 00:38:23,510
the impact of this offense
on their family.
661
00:38:23,594 --> 00:38:26,889
I think we'll see highly charged
emotional statements by the family.
662
00:38:29,183 --> 00:38:31,894
I'm the mother of Anthony Lee Sears.
663
00:38:33,896 --> 00:38:36,065
And I just wanted to know,
664
00:38:36,148 --> 00:38:40,194
you know, just why would it be my son?
665
00:38:40,819 --> 00:38:44,281
Um, I wanna thank the jury.
I wanna thank you, Judge.
666
00:38:44,365 --> 00:38:47,534
And just keep this man
off the street, please. [sniffles]
667
00:38:48,994 --> 00:38:54,458
I would like to say to Jeffrey Dahmer
that he don't know the pain, the hurt,
668
00:38:54,541 --> 00:38:59,171
the loss, and the mental state
that he had put our family in.
669
00:39:00,839 --> 00:39:04,385
I don't wanna ever see my mother
have to go through this again!
670
00:39:05,177 --> 00:39:06,428
Never, Jeffrey.
671
00:39:06,929 --> 00:39:09,848
Jeffrey, I hate you, motherfucker!
672
00:39:09,932 --> 00:39:11,475
[screams] I hate you!
673
00:39:11,558 --> 00:39:13,560
Jeffrey's out of control!
674
00:39:13,644 --> 00:39:16,438
Don't fuck with me, Jeffrey!
I'll kill you, goddamn it!
675
00:39:16,522 --> 00:39:18,482
Look at me, motherfucker!
676
00:39:18,565 --> 00:39:20,776
-Ah! I could kill you!
-[judge] Lunch and recess.
677
00:39:20,859 --> 00:39:23,904
Fucking kill you, motherfucker!
678
00:39:25,322 --> 00:39:27,449
[Mccann] She was coming
across the courtroom at him,
679
00:39:27,533 --> 00:39:29,660
intent, it appeared to me, to attack him.
680
00:39:29,743 --> 00:39:31,328
He was cool. He kept control.
681
00:39:31,412 --> 00:39:33,539
I would've thought he'd jump up.
He didn't.
682
00:39:33,622 --> 00:39:37,084
He just sat there.
This is Jeffrey Dahmer under stress.
683
00:39:42,005 --> 00:39:44,800
[Wendy] The judge said to Jeffrey,
"Is there anything you'd like to say
684
00:39:44,883 --> 00:39:46,802
in addressing the court
before I pass judgment?"
685
00:39:46,885 --> 00:39:49,972
This has never been a case
of trying to get free.
686
00:39:50,556 --> 00:39:52,516
Frankly, I wanted death for myself.
687
00:39:53,308 --> 00:39:54,768
I hated no one.
688
00:39:55,394 --> 00:39:58,063
I knew I was sick or evil, or both.
689
00:39:58,647 --> 00:40:00,149
Now I believe I was sick.
690
00:40:01,442 --> 00:40:03,569
I take all the blame for what I did.
691
00:40:03,652 --> 00:40:05,154
I hurt many people.
692
00:40:05,237 --> 00:40:08,282
I've hurt my mother and father
and stepmother.
693
00:40:08,365 --> 00:40:10,284
I love them all so very much.
694
00:40:11,243 --> 00:40:14,663
I hope that they will find
the same peace I am looking for.
695
00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:20,377
[reporter 4] This left the judge to
hand down the stiffest possible sentence
696
00:40:20,461 --> 00:40:22,504
in a state with no death penalty.
697
00:40:24,256 --> 00:40:27,926
Dahmer was sentenced to 15
consecutive terms of life imprisonment.
698
00:40:28,010 --> 00:40:30,637
-[cheering]
-[spectator] Yes!
699
00:40:35,309 --> 00:40:38,228
[reporter 5] Finally they had something
to cheer about for the first time
700
00:40:38,312 --> 00:40:41,899
since these family members learned
of Jeffrey Dahmer and what he did.
701
00:40:44,193 --> 00:40:45,694
[Shirley Hughes] Life goes on.
702
00:40:45,777 --> 00:40:49,031
Maybe what I've learned through
this tragedy will help someone else.
703
00:40:49,615 --> 00:40:51,909
And I just thank God for this verdict.
704
00:40:53,035 --> 00:40:57,456
Dahmer identified Steven's picture and
was asked how he could be sure who it was.
705
00:40:57,539 --> 00:41:00,459
He told the police,
"You always remember your first."
706
00:41:00,542 --> 00:41:03,545
I want him to know
that we also remember our first.
707
00:41:03,629 --> 00:41:06,507
Not one day has passed
that we've not thought about Steve.
708
00:41:07,966 --> 00:41:11,386
There's a sense of closure in the sense…
Especially for the families
709
00:41:11,470 --> 00:41:14,348
that waited years to find out
what had happened to their sons.
710
00:41:15,516 --> 00:41:17,392
It's a sad sense of closure,
711
00:41:18,018 --> 00:41:19,269
but it's closure.
712
00:41:20,646 --> 00:41:22,105
[uneasy music playing]
713
00:41:26,151 --> 00:41:29,613
Dahmer was sent to Columbia
Correctional Facility in Wisconsin.
714
00:41:32,241 --> 00:41:34,368
[Jeffrey]
I dunno what prison systems are like.
715
00:41:34,451 --> 00:41:37,454
I have a picture
of a very dreary, gray place.
716
00:41:38,121 --> 00:41:40,541
I was thinking maybe that in prison,
717
00:41:40,624 --> 00:41:44,962
they'll maybe let me do something
with growing some kind of a plant.
718
00:41:45,796 --> 00:41:49,883
Uh, I've always had an interest
in growing plants.
719
00:41:49,967 --> 00:41:51,760
I had plants at the apartment.
720
00:41:52,970 --> 00:41:55,430
[Murphy] He was put on suicide watch,
721
00:41:55,514 --> 00:41:59,059
so he was placed in a single cell,
not in the bullpen.
722
00:41:59,142 --> 00:42:01,353
[Wendy] He told me,
"What do I have to look forward to?"
723
00:42:01,436 --> 00:42:04,064
I said, "You know,
there's a lot of things that you can do."
724
00:42:04,147 --> 00:42:06,358
"You said you were reading the Bible."
725
00:42:06,441 --> 00:42:08,652
"And you wanted to get back into it."
726
00:42:08,735 --> 00:42:12,072
So he did make those, uh, overt actions
727
00:42:12,155 --> 00:42:16,076
to try and redeem himself in God's eyes.
728
00:42:18,662 --> 00:42:20,080
[tape rolling]
729
00:42:25,377 --> 00:42:29,923
I got a phone call in 1994
from a minister friend in Milwaukee,
730
00:42:30,007 --> 00:42:31,466
who was in Milwaukee at the time,
731
00:42:31,550 --> 00:42:33,969
saying an inmate wanted to be baptized.
732
00:42:34,469 --> 00:42:36,847
He said,
"You might wanna sit down for this one."
733
00:42:36,930 --> 00:42:38,181
"His name is Jeffrey Dahmer."
734
00:42:39,725 --> 00:42:41,727
I was nervous about meeting him.
735
00:42:43,645 --> 00:42:47,858
I'd never been to a prison before.
I'd never been to a murderer before.
736
00:42:49,276 --> 00:42:50,902
I was sitting there thinking, "Wow."
737
00:42:50,986 --> 00:42:54,156
"I'm in a room with a guy
who's killed a lot of young men."
738
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,116
And I looked at his hands. And his hands…
739
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:58,785
I thought his hands were relatively small
compared to my hands.
740
00:42:58,869 --> 00:43:00,829
With those hands, he strangled men,
741
00:43:00,912 --> 00:43:04,958
and yet here I am talking to him
as if, you know, we're just normal people.
742
00:43:05,917 --> 00:43:07,836
I said, "Yes, I'll… I'll baptize you."
743
00:43:07,919 --> 00:43:10,297
That seemed to cause him
a great deal of relief.
744
00:43:11,214 --> 00:43:14,259
He says, "Well, I was afraid you'd say,
'You are too evil."
745
00:43:14,343 --> 00:43:17,304
"You are too horrible,
too wicked to be baptized.'"
746
00:43:21,642 --> 00:43:23,185
Jeff was brought in.
747
00:43:24,353 --> 00:43:26,229
I pushed his head under the water,
748
00:43:27,189 --> 00:43:30,150
and when he came up, I said,
"Welcome to the family of God."
749
00:43:32,361 --> 00:43:34,112
On the day of his baptism,
750
00:43:34,196 --> 00:43:37,032
John Wayne Gacy
was executed on that same day.
751
00:43:39,242 --> 00:43:41,870
There was a full solar eclipse as well.
752
00:43:41,953 --> 00:43:46,667
Some tried to read into that some kind
of mystical, uh, meaning behind all this.
753
00:43:47,751 --> 00:43:50,879
I met him once a week from that point on
for about an hour.
754
00:43:50,962 --> 00:43:53,048
It was a matter of growing in his faith,
755
00:43:53,131 --> 00:43:56,760
understanding what his faith was about,
and then continue each week.
756
00:43:57,260 --> 00:43:59,680
Jeffrey Dahmer lives
in that building back there.
757
00:43:59,763 --> 00:44:01,807
Disciplinary Segregation Two.
758
00:44:01,890 --> 00:44:04,434
Now, he has a job,
mopping and sweeping up floors,
759
00:44:04,518 --> 00:44:08,438
and officials hope eventually he'll be
able to mix with the general population.
760
00:44:09,940 --> 00:44:13,026
[Ratcliff] On the last day I saw him,
it was the day before Thanksgiving.
761
00:44:14,236 --> 00:44:17,531
He gave me a card,
and he underlined the word "friend."
762
00:44:17,614 --> 00:44:20,617
It indicated that, uh, he was beginning
to understand
763
00:44:20,701 --> 00:44:22,911
what friendship was
for the very first time.
764
00:44:25,664 --> 00:44:27,791
[Wendy] After he was in prison for a year,
765
00:44:27,874 --> 00:44:29,584
I went and visited him.
766
00:44:29,668 --> 00:44:33,004
He said, "I'm not gonna do this anymore.
I can't just sit here in isolation."
767
00:44:33,088 --> 00:44:36,091
He said,
"If I can't interact with other people,
768
00:44:36,758 --> 00:44:39,344
that's gonna be worse than if I died."
769
00:44:40,721 --> 00:44:44,141
He said, "I'm gonna be asked
to be put in general population."
770
00:44:44,224 --> 00:44:47,102
I said, "Jeff, you know,
you're gonna be dead shortly."
771
00:44:47,185 --> 00:44:50,397
"Because everybody had such strong,
772
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,357
strong views
773
00:44:52,441 --> 00:44:54,484
and opinions about your actions."
774
00:44:55,736 --> 00:44:57,612
"We don't need any further loss of life."
775
00:44:59,990 --> 00:45:02,784
[Jeffrey] I tell you, Wendy.
I don't think I'm gonna be able to keep
776
00:45:02,868 --> 00:45:04,870
a level head. I really don't.
777
00:45:05,746 --> 00:45:07,414
Because I've always been one
778
00:45:07,497 --> 00:45:10,584
who needs stimulation, mental stimulation.
779
00:45:12,461 --> 00:45:13,587
Uh…
780
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:16,256
And I just don't have
the patience that I should.
781
00:45:25,474 --> 00:45:28,018
[Wendy] I had a very hard time
that day leaving.
782
00:45:31,813 --> 00:45:33,899
And I just said, "Please don't do this."
783
00:45:35,901 --> 00:45:38,236
"You're just not gonna make it."
784
00:45:43,617 --> 00:45:45,202
[suspenseful music playing]
785
00:45:47,996 --> 00:45:49,206
[door closes]
786
00:45:51,625 --> 00:45:52,959
[tape rolling]
787
00:46:00,592 --> 00:46:04,638
In November of 1994, while he was
in the prison, he was at the work detail.
788
00:46:06,014 --> 00:46:08,016
He and a man named Jesse Anderson
789
00:46:08,099 --> 00:46:10,811
were assigned to clean up
lockers in the gym.
790
00:46:13,021 --> 00:46:15,899
Christopher Scarver, a man who my office
had convicted of murder
791
00:46:15,982 --> 00:46:18,485
a number of years earlier,
was on the same work detail.
792
00:46:19,194 --> 00:46:21,780
He took the barbell from the exercise room
793
00:46:22,489 --> 00:46:25,283
and bludgeoned Dahmer
over the head with that weapon.
794
00:46:25,367 --> 00:46:28,203
The information I received
from the prison was
795
00:46:28,286 --> 00:46:30,914
he did not resist the attack.
796
00:46:32,666 --> 00:46:37,045
[Berlin] The irony in all of this is that
the first time that Mr. Dahmer killed
797
00:46:37,128 --> 00:46:39,840
was when he picked up
some weight lifting equipment
798
00:46:39,923 --> 00:46:42,133
and took the life of Steven Hicks.
799
00:46:43,051 --> 00:46:44,845
The whole thing came full cycle.
800
00:46:44,928 --> 00:46:46,304
[thuds]
801
00:46:48,598 --> 00:46:51,935
[Crocker] He was in general population
within a year of when he was killed.
802
00:46:52,477 --> 00:46:54,855
It was surprising
that Dahmer lived that long.
803
00:46:56,982 --> 00:46:58,733
[anchor] Dahmer's father Lionel joins us.
804
00:46:58,817 --> 00:47:00,986
Tell me, you told me that you were at work
805
00:47:01,069 --> 00:47:03,780
when your wife called
to say your son had been injured.
806
00:47:03,864 --> 00:47:05,407
What then happened after that?
807
00:47:06,157 --> 00:47:09,953
She had called and…
and hit me with the news
808
00:47:10,036 --> 00:47:13,206
that… that Jeff had passed away
809
00:47:13,290 --> 00:47:15,125
that morning about ten o'clock.
810
00:47:15,208 --> 00:47:17,544
I just couldn't believe it. I…
811
00:47:18,295 --> 00:47:21,089
I started sobbing and… and, uh, shaking.
812
00:47:22,090 --> 00:47:23,383
[Wendy] I was very upset.
813
00:47:24,175 --> 00:47:26,052
You can't help but become close
with somebody
814
00:47:26,136 --> 00:47:29,097
when you spend that many days,
weeks, months with them.
815
00:47:29,180 --> 00:47:33,602
Some suspected that the prison system
had deliberately undertaken
816
00:47:33,685 --> 00:47:35,103
to execute Dahmer,
817
00:47:35,186 --> 00:47:37,063
and the governor, very wisely,
818
00:47:37,147 --> 00:47:40,692
immediately ordered a commission
to investigate it.
819
00:47:40,775 --> 00:47:44,905
[reporter] This prison has nearly 3 dozen
video monitors, electronic steel doors,
820
00:47:44,988 --> 00:47:47,782
yet somehow 25-year-old
Christopher Scarver
821
00:47:47,866 --> 00:47:51,036
allegedly managed to elude
the elaborate security system.
822
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:54,497
[Ratcliff] One went to answer a phone call
the other was listening to music.
823
00:47:54,581 --> 00:47:56,708
It was ridiculous no one was around.
824
00:47:57,542 --> 00:47:59,502
[Ross] I used to work in prison.
825
00:48:00,170 --> 00:48:03,632
We watched them bathe.
We watched them eat and sleep.
826
00:48:03,715 --> 00:48:05,717
We watched them pee and poo.
827
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,261
Any time they moved, we were there.
828
00:48:08,345 --> 00:48:12,057
Dahmer was one of the most celebrated
prisoners in the western hemisphere.
829
00:48:13,266 --> 00:48:17,395
How is it that so prominent a prisoner
could be executed in the prison?
830
00:48:19,022 --> 00:48:22,776
There was a study, and, uh, the commission
said there was no crime involved,
831
00:48:22,859 --> 00:48:26,738
that there was no conspiracy,
no inside job to get rid of Dahmer.
832
00:48:26,821 --> 00:48:30,700
They have given him good, fair, uh, care.
833
00:48:31,368 --> 00:48:34,496
They've guarded him.
Uh, they knew the potential dangers.
834
00:48:34,579 --> 00:48:36,247
It's not the prison's fault.
835
00:48:36,331 --> 00:48:38,750
Jeff, for all that he was a killer,
836
00:48:38,833 --> 00:48:40,502
could never defend himself.
837
00:48:42,087 --> 00:48:44,589
[Mccann] I… I could not celebrate
when he was killed.
838
00:48:45,715 --> 00:48:49,427
I can understand why some might,
but I felt nothing but sadness.
839
00:48:50,261 --> 00:48:52,305
A sad story with a sad ending.
840
00:48:53,890 --> 00:48:55,183
[somber music playing]
841
00:48:59,229 --> 00:49:02,107
[Wendy] Jeffrey Dahmer
was a very complex person.
842
00:49:04,234 --> 00:49:07,362
He was a very hurting individual
843
00:49:07,445 --> 00:49:10,615
that felt soulless, felt empty.
844
00:49:13,576 --> 00:49:17,038
[from recorder] Did it enter your mind
that it seemed a waste to destroy somebody
845
00:49:17,122 --> 00:49:20,333
who looked so nice
while they were still alive?
846
00:49:20,417 --> 00:49:22,377
[Jeffrey] Yeah, it did.
847
00:49:23,169 --> 00:49:25,505
I felt that it was…
848
00:49:26,965 --> 00:49:31,344
a waste that I couldn't keep them longer
without having to kill them,
849
00:49:31,428 --> 00:49:34,723
but I didn't know any other way
to make them stay
850
00:49:34,806 --> 00:49:36,599
and to control them.
851
00:49:36,683 --> 00:49:38,476
I had no choice in the matter.
852
00:49:40,020 --> 00:49:43,857
[Wendy] Did you, uh,
feel emotions of any kind?
853
00:49:44,482 --> 00:49:47,277
[Jeffrey] I felt a lot of…
854
00:49:47,819 --> 00:49:49,571
a great deal of remorse.
855
00:49:54,576 --> 00:49:56,786
[Wendy] I don't think Jeffrey
ever found out
856
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:59,039
a good enough answer for him
857
00:49:59,122 --> 00:50:01,332
as to why he did what he did.
858
00:50:03,251 --> 00:50:06,921
He said, "Through all
of these forensic doctors I'm talking to,
859
00:50:07,005 --> 00:50:09,716
if one of them
could give me a reason why."
860
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,719
"I really would like to know."
861
00:50:12,802 --> 00:50:16,389
But with his death,
I knew he would never find out why.
862
00:50:18,224 --> 00:50:21,061
[Berlin] We can easily just say
this is an evil monster.
863
00:50:21,144 --> 00:50:24,606
"Why'd he do it?" "'Cause he's evil."
"How do we know?" "'Cause he did it."
864
00:50:24,689 --> 00:50:27,317
It's just a label
masquerading as an explanation.
865
00:50:28,151 --> 00:50:31,488
[Wendy] There were still things
that I wanted to know about him,
866
00:50:31,571 --> 00:50:33,782
things I wanted to talk to him about.
867
00:50:34,699 --> 00:50:36,951
It was a waste of an opportunity
868
00:50:37,035 --> 00:50:40,830
for people to study what made him tick.
869
00:50:42,290 --> 00:50:45,085
They were horrific, terrible things
that he did,
870
00:50:45,168 --> 00:50:48,338
but if he really couldn't
control his conduct,
871
00:50:48,421 --> 00:50:50,048
let's find out what's going on here.
872
00:50:50,131 --> 00:50:51,966
Maybe we can all learn something
as a society.
873
00:50:59,099 --> 00:51:01,059
[Boyle] Jeffrey Dahmer, he didn't care.
874
00:51:01,142 --> 00:51:03,561
He had no sympathy for them.
875
00:51:03,645 --> 00:51:05,021
He had no remorse.
876
00:51:07,899 --> 00:51:11,528
And far as I know, he never felt bad
for the people he harmed,
877
00:51:12,028 --> 00:51:13,613
all the damage he did.
878
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,036
[Fleming] Dahmer's victims had
very little recourse in the end.
879
00:51:21,371 --> 00:51:23,373
And the family members who had survived,
880
00:51:23,456 --> 00:51:26,835
there was very little
to compensate them for their losses.
881
00:51:27,418 --> 00:51:32,298
But what was left was Dahmer's property
that had been taken out of his apartment.
882
00:51:33,174 --> 00:51:34,717
[reporter 1] That's when a judge ordered
883
00:51:34,801 --> 00:51:38,138
that Dahmer's possessions,
including his instruments of death,
884
00:51:38,221 --> 00:51:40,473
be auctioned off to the highest bidder.
885
00:51:40,557 --> 00:51:43,434
The proceeds would be divided
among the victims' families.
886
00:51:44,394 --> 00:51:48,356
[Fleming] A philanthropist purchased
everything on behalf of the victims.
887
00:51:48,439 --> 00:51:51,025
[reporter 2] Milwaukee businessman
Joe Zilber
888
00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:53,444
launched an effort
to buy everything and destroy it.
889
00:51:53,528 --> 00:51:56,281
Zilber reached out
to fellow business leaders, politicians,
890
00:51:56,364 --> 00:51:58,032
and prominent Milwaukeeans.
891
00:51:58,116 --> 00:52:01,578
They raised $400,000
and purchased all the items.
892
00:52:02,078 --> 00:52:05,206
[Joe Zilber] They're upset that
a situation would have to occur
893
00:52:05,290 --> 00:52:07,125
where these terrible, terrible items
894
00:52:07,208 --> 00:52:09,961
would go on a public auction block
895
00:52:10,044 --> 00:52:13,506
in a very highly visible,
896
00:52:13,590 --> 00:52:15,008
worldwide way.
897
00:52:15,508 --> 00:52:18,761
[reporter 3] The items were then
loaded into a garbage truck
898
00:52:18,845 --> 00:52:21,598
and taken to an undisclosed landfill
899
00:52:21,681 --> 00:52:22,891
in Illinois.
900
00:52:28,104 --> 00:52:31,733
[Mccann] He took lives
for a few hours of sexual pleasure
901
00:52:32,317 --> 00:52:36,529
of persons that had done him nothing evil,
or toward which he would have no ill will.
902
00:52:36,613 --> 00:52:38,156
He took their life.
903
00:52:39,115 --> 00:52:40,408
That's the tragedy.
904
00:52:41,451 --> 00:52:43,745
I would hope the world
would forget about Dahmer,
905
00:52:43,828 --> 00:52:46,414
and he would become
a part of the ash bin of history.
906
00:52:46,497 --> 00:52:48,499
[revving]
907
00:52:51,419 --> 00:52:52,754
[birds chirping]
908
00:52:52,837 --> 00:52:55,632
[Bass] All the tenants
living in the Oxford Apartments,
909
00:52:55,715 --> 00:52:59,177
we held a meeting
to decide on what we were gonna do.
910
00:52:59,761 --> 00:53:03,306
And we decided
that we didn't want to live there anymore.
911
00:53:07,268 --> 00:53:09,145
[Shirley] It will give me relief
912
00:53:09,771 --> 00:53:12,273
to know that the young men that died here,
913
00:53:12,357 --> 00:53:15,485
their souls and their body,
will seem at rest with this down.
914
00:53:15,568 --> 00:53:17,987
[reporter 4] So the Oxford will be razed,
915
00:53:18,071 --> 00:53:21,699
and it is hoped the tragic memories
born here can be buried forever.
916
00:53:24,994 --> 00:53:28,122
[reporter 5] What many call a symbol
of pain and senseless violence
917
00:53:28,206 --> 00:53:30,959
will no longer be so visible
to the city of Milwaukee
918
00:53:31,042 --> 00:53:33,795
and the families
of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims.
919
00:53:38,007 --> 00:53:41,386
[Fleming] I can understand Milwaukee
wants to put this case behind it.
920
00:53:41,469 --> 00:53:43,721
I think it's important,
though, to understand
921
00:53:43,805 --> 00:53:46,849
that there are people out there
who do horrific things.
922
00:53:48,518 --> 00:53:49,811
Evil is real.
923
00:53:51,145 --> 00:53:53,856
Jeffrey Dahmer not only
killed his victims,
924
00:53:53,940 --> 00:53:55,733
but he hurt a community.
925
00:53:56,317 --> 00:54:00,655
The pain of Jeffrey Dahmer's killings
hurt Milwaukee.
926
00:54:01,447 --> 00:54:04,659
The… The families were people
that we saw on TV.
927
00:54:05,243 --> 00:54:08,079
The neighborhood was a neighborhood
that we knew.
928
00:54:08,162 --> 00:54:09,956
[chanting]
929
00:54:11,749 --> 00:54:14,419
[Anne] This was a case that exposed
930
00:54:15,003 --> 00:54:16,796
a lot of racial issues,
931
00:54:16,879 --> 00:54:19,173
a lot of different biases,
932
00:54:19,757 --> 00:54:23,011
both in the police department
and the community that is Milwaukee.
933
00:54:23,094 --> 00:54:24,470
[chanting]
934
00:54:25,221 --> 00:54:29,142
[Crocker] What Dahmer was doing was
he was feeding on the undetectable
935
00:54:29,225 --> 00:54:32,395
in our community,
and he was protected by the institutions
936
00:54:32,478 --> 00:54:36,441
that were supposed to be protecting
these weakest, most vulnerable people.
937
00:54:36,524 --> 00:54:39,360
He preyed on them,
and the police did not protect them.
938
00:54:42,405 --> 00:54:46,743
Whatever we learn, it's not gonna be worth
what these families have suffered,
939
00:54:46,826 --> 00:54:48,578
but let's not just throw it away.
940
00:54:49,454 --> 00:54:51,664
It's important to get this right,
941
00:54:52,332 --> 00:54:56,794
to talk about this in a way
that gives dignity to these victims.
942
00:54:58,546 --> 00:55:02,508
[Causey] We can't go back and fix
what happened back in 1991
943
00:55:02,592 --> 00:55:05,136
and prior to that
when he started killing people.
944
00:55:08,890 --> 00:55:10,433
What you can do, though,
945
00:55:10,516 --> 00:55:13,686
is have people talk about what happened,
946
00:55:14,437 --> 00:55:19,859
so we don't fall into the same traps
and shed light on it,
947
00:55:19,942 --> 00:55:24,947
so the crime that we see on a daily basis
stops or slows down.
948
00:55:26,324 --> 00:55:28,409
The poverty, the high crime,
949
00:55:29,077 --> 00:55:32,080
the fact that we don't care
about the disadvantaged,
950
00:55:32,163 --> 00:55:35,792
all those things provided
a playground for him to operate in.
951
00:55:36,626 --> 00:55:39,962
To prevent something like that
from happening again,
952
00:55:40,046 --> 00:55:42,215
you have to address these issues
953
00:55:43,383 --> 00:55:44,384
today.
954
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,596
[Connor] There's always
gonna be that pain,
955
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:50,640
that remembrance of what happened.
956
00:55:50,723 --> 00:55:53,893
We're always gonna do the "what-ifs."
957
00:55:53,976 --> 00:55:55,645
You know? Where would they be now?
958
00:55:55,728 --> 00:55:59,690
What kind of life would they have had?
You're always gonna miss that person.
959
00:56:02,193 --> 00:56:04,529
[Ross] Humanizing the individuals
960
00:56:04,612 --> 00:56:06,447
who lost their lives
961
00:56:06,531 --> 00:56:08,032
is important.
962
00:56:08,533 --> 00:56:11,786
Recognizing that
each one of those young men
963
00:56:12,453 --> 00:56:14,205
had a mother,
964
00:56:14,288 --> 00:56:15,873
a father,
965
00:56:15,957 --> 00:56:17,917
had sisters and brothers
966
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,254
that loved them and still miss them.
967
00:56:23,464 --> 00:56:25,091
[somber music playing]
968
00:56:26,300 --> 00:56:29,929
They were just trying to do
969
00:56:30,012 --> 00:56:32,098
what we're all trying to do.
970
00:56:32,181 --> 00:56:33,558
Survive.
971
00:56:34,308 --> 00:56:37,645
Live and enjoy the life
that they'd been given.
972
00:56:38,521 --> 00:56:40,898
They had a life
973
00:56:40,982 --> 00:56:43,067
that they loved.
974
00:56:43,818 --> 00:56:47,280
I think it's important
to tell their story.
975
00:56:48,614 --> 00:56:50,867
Nobody deserves to die like that.