1
00:00:59,459 --> 00:01:03,334
My name's David Farrier, and I'm
a journalist from New Zealand.

2
00:01:04,167 --> 00:01:06,375
Five years ago,
I started writing

3
00:01:06,417 --> 00:01:09,500
what I thought would be
a very simple quirky story.

4
00:01:11,167 --> 00:01:13,917
But here I am,
half a decade later,

5
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,167
still trying to make
sense of it all.

6
00:01:24,375 --> 00:01:26,792
I'm driving to an abandoned
psychiatric hospital

7
00:01:26,875 --> 00:01:28,417
in the middle of nowhere...

8
00:01:31,042 --> 00:01:34,292
which is funny, because I do
feel like I'm losing my mind.

9
00:01:36,917 --> 00:01:38,292
What's he doing in there?

10
00:01:52,292 --> 00:01:54,375
I'm just gonna park
up where we were.

11
00:01:56,167 --> 00:01:58,250
Or further on.

12
00:01:59,875 --> 00:02:01,667
- I'm not going by them.

13
00:02:01,667 --> 00:02:03,792
I don't even know who
I'm here to meet -

14
00:02:05,542 --> 00:02:07,875
I just know that somewhere
in these crumbling buildings

15
00:02:07,917 --> 00:02:09,959
lie the answers I need -

16
00:02:09,959 --> 00:02:11,542
at least that's what I hope.

17
00:02:16,959 --> 00:02:19,209
- So, two people
got out and walked in.

18
00:02:24,792 --> 00:02:26,542
- Can we see who is in that car?
— No.

19
00:02:31,084 --> 00:02:32,709
What the fuck are you up to?

20
00:02:59,959 --> 00:03:01,959
I guess you could
call the city I live in

21
00:03:02,042 --> 00:03:04,709
the Beverly Hills
of New Zealand.

22
00:03:04,709 --> 00:03:07,334
And on one of its most
expensive streets

23
00:03:07,417 --> 00:03:10,792
sits this high-end antique
store, Bashford Antiques.

24
00:03:12,167 --> 00:03:15,084
During the day,
it's quiet, uneventful;

25
00:03:15,084 --> 00:03:17,459
blue skies and canoodling
pigeons.

26
00:03:21,084 --> 00:03:23,709
But as the sun sets,
and the store closes,...

27
00:03:26,917 --> 00:03:30,209
things get crazy outside.

28
00:03:31,209 --> 00:03:33,084
- You were given
every chance to pay.

29
00:03:33,084 --> 00:03:35,167
- We're trying to pay you money.

30
00:03:36,584 --> 00:03:38,584
You saw me go and get
the cash. You saw me.

31
00:03:38,584 --> 00:03:40,917
- I haven't seen
you get anything.

32
00:03:40,959 --> 00:03:44,042
- Yes, you did. You are a liar!
You saw me go and get the cash.

33
00:03:44,084 --> 00:03:46,209
- No, I saw you walk past here.

34
00:03:46,292 --> 00:03:48,209
- Excuse me.
- Yes, to go and get the cash,

35
00:03:48,292 --> 00:03:51,334
where you told me
the cashpoint was.

36
00:03:51,417 --> 00:03:54,709
- The owner of the antique
store is Jillian Bashford,

37
00:03:54,709 --> 00:03:57,209
and she's making a bold stand

38
00:03:57,209 --> 00:04:01,292
against anyone who dares
park outside when it's shut.

39
00:04:01,334 --> 00:04:03,584
- When I bought this
building over 15 years ago,

40
00:04:03,584 --> 00:04:06,709
there was no parking
issues round the area.

41
00:04:06,792 --> 00:04:08,334
Ah, how times have changed!

42
00:04:10,042 --> 00:04:11,959
People think they've got
a sense of entitlement

43
00:04:12,042 --> 00:04:14,292
to park in somebody's
private car park.

44
00:04:15,334 --> 00:04:17,875
- To fix the problem,

45
00:04:17,917 --> 00:04:20,792
she's hired a man to watch
her car park like a hawk.

46
00:04:22,750 --> 00:04:25,625
When people park there,
he waits till they walk away,

47
00:04:25,667 --> 00:04:27,167
then swoops, . . .

48
00:04:28,792 --> 00:04:30,792
Placing a clamp on their wheel

49
00:04:30,792 --> 00:04:32,542
or blocking them
in with his van.

50
00:04:37,792 --> 00:04:39,167
- There was car parks.
- You are not...

51
00:04:39,250 --> 00:04:41,417
- When they come back,
the aggro begins.

52
00:04:42,625 --> 00:04:45,042
- I told the police that you-
- It's all right. Leave it-

53
00:04:45,125 --> 00:04:47,292
- ...were given every-
- You're an absolute crook.

54
00:04:47,375 --> 00:04:51,167
- Because it's private property,
this is fully legal.

55
00:04:51,167 --> 00:04:54,375
So if people want to leave,
they have to pay him.

56
00:04:54,417 --> 00:04:56,625
And I realised this car park is

57
00:04:56,667 --> 00:04:59,917
quite the money-maker
for Bashford Antiques.

58
00:04:59,917 --> 00:05:02,042
- I'm literally trying to
give you 400 bucks cash,

59
00:05:02,042 --> 00:05:03,667
which is what you asked for,
and you want to-

60
00:05:03,667 --> 00:05:06,292
- No, it is $760.

61
00:05:06,375 --> 00:05:08,792
- Oh my God.

62
00:05:08,792 --> 00:05:11,750
- Charging $760 for
half an hour's parking

63
00:05:11,792 --> 00:05:13,292
is ludicrous to me...

64
00:05:14,625 --> 00:05:18,167
so I start writing about Jillian
and her bonkers clamping.

65
00:05:19,292 --> 00:05:22,750
- You go to Westhaven,
you'll be clamped there too.

66
00:05:22,750 --> 00:05:24,167
- No problem.
And I'm willing to pay.

67
00:05:24,167 --> 00:05:26,917
- So go and park at Westhaven
and be clamped there.

68
00:05:26,917 --> 00:05:28,167
- Ooh!
- Ooh.

69
00:05:28,250 --> 00:05:29,667
- I know.
- Tale of a bully.

70
00:05:29,750 --> 00:05:33,292
- Pretty soon, she's on
the prime-time news.

71
00:05:33,375 --> 00:05:36,042
- This week, we heard that a
full-scale war was breaking out

72
00:05:36,042 --> 00:05:38,000
on the streets of an
Auckland suburb, and...

73
00:05:38,042 --> 00:05:41,042
- Diners told us they were being
preyed on by a wheel clamper,

74
00:05:41,167 --> 00:05:43,667
who was then demanding they
pay to get their vehicles back.

75
00:05:43,750 --> 00:05:45,875
- Hannah parked in front
of Bashford's Antiques

76
00:05:45,917 --> 00:05:47,417
on Williamson Ave.

77
00:05:47,542 --> 00:05:51,292
- Something in this
report gets my attention -

78
00:05:51,375 --> 00:05:55,417
I've seen Jillian and her
clamper together a lot now,

79
00:05:55,417 --> 00:05:58,875
and yet here she is saying she
doesn't know anything about him.

80
00:05:58,875 --> 00:06:01,375
- I have nothing to
do with Premiere.

81
00:06:01,375 --> 00:06:04,542
They're purely the people
that do the clamping for me.

82
00:06:05,750 --> 00:06:08,917
- I don't understand why
she's lying about this,

83
00:06:08,917 --> 00:06:10,917
so I give her a call.

84
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,042
- Oh, hey, Jillian.
It's David Farrier speaking.

85
00:06:18,125 --> 00:06:20,292
- It's David Farrier.

86
00:06:20,292 --> 00:06:21,875
I'm a journalist
from The Spinoff.

87
00:06:21,917 --> 00:06:24,167
- Yeah. Hi.

88
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,625
- Where?

89
00:06:41,542 --> 00:06:44,417
- Part of the reason why
we're...

90
00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:47,500
- As their victims increase
into the hundreds...

91
00:06:48,667 --> 00:06:50,792
Jillian takes things up a notch.

92
00:06:55,542 --> 00:06:58,167
Her legal representatives
sends threats in all-caps

93
00:06:58,250 --> 00:07:00,500
to people who are
speaking out about it.

94
00:07:05,125 --> 00:07:07,625
They're signed by an MDA Organ.

95
00:07:10,792 --> 00:07:13,250
I try and find him
to interview him,

96
00:07:13,292 --> 00:07:15,917
but there's no lawyer
with that name -

97
00:07:15,917 --> 00:07:17,417
he doesn't exist.

98
00:07:21,250 --> 00:07:24,167
The only Organ I can
find is this Organ,

99
00:07:24,167 --> 00:07:28,125
who once made headlines claiming
to be a blue-blooded prince.

100
00:07:31,125 --> 00:07:32,625
I stare at the prince...

101
00:07:35,250 --> 00:07:37,417
and I see the clamper
staring back at me.

102
00:07:41,417 --> 00:07:43,750
The prince,
the clamper and the lawyer;

103
00:07:45,375 --> 00:07:48,500
I think they're all the same
person - Michael Organ.

104
00:07:52,042 --> 00:07:55,375
This is exactly my
kind of weird mess.

105
00:07:55,375 --> 00:07:59,167
I know there must be more
to this car-park terrorist.

106
00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:02,917
Something else is going on here,
and I want to find out what.

107
00:08:11,917 --> 00:08:13,417
- Yes?
- Oh, hi.

108
00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:15,500
It's David Farrier speaking.

109
00:08:15,542 --> 00:08:18,542
I'm a journalist based in
Auckland. How are you doing?

110
00:08:18,542 --> 00:08:20,042
- I'm fine. I'm good.
- You're good.

111
00:08:20,042 --> 00:08:22,750
Hey, it's a bit of a random
call out of the blue -

112
00:08:22,792 --> 00:08:25,792
I'm looking into the background
of Michael Organ.

113
00:08:27,125 --> 00:08:28,917
- Oh, do me a favour.

114
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,875
Now, you've asked me a
question about Michael Organ,

115
00:08:30,917 --> 00:08:33,209
but I'm gonna ask you
to do me a quick favour,

116
00:08:33,209 --> 00:08:34,834
and you're gonna answer this
very, very quickly for me,

117
00:08:34,917 --> 00:08:37,667
straight off the bat.
When were you born?

118
00:08:37,709 --> 00:08:40,334
- I was born on
Christmas Day, '82.

119
00:08:40,334 --> 00:08:43,334
- Nice one. You are
David Farrier. OK.

120
00:08:43,334 --> 00:08:45,334
The reason why I ask
you that is because

121
00:08:45,334 --> 00:08:47,167
this is something that
Michael would do,

122
00:08:47,209 --> 00:08:50,792
so you'll forgive me if had to
check you there a little bit.

123
00:08:50,834 --> 00:08:53,709
- This paranoid voice
belongs to Jazz,

124
00:08:53,792 --> 00:08:56,334
a man who lived with
Organ in the late '90s.

125
00:08:56,459 --> 00:08:58,792
- Yeah. Um...
- I was just wondering if you'd

126
00:08:58,834 --> 00:09:00,959
talk me through, like,
the day-to-day of, like,

127
00:09:00,959 --> 00:09:03,792
- living in that place.
- Man. It was hell.

128
00:09:04,917 --> 00:09:07,834
Every single day with
Michael Organ is like hell.

129
00:09:09,834 --> 00:09:11,959
Um, it's like
high-velocity hell.

130
00:09:11,959 --> 00:09:13,084
He's the kind of guy that

131
00:09:13,084 --> 00:09:14,709
if you're talking to
him for 10 minutes,

132
00:09:14,792 --> 00:09:17,042
that 10 minutes will
turn into 10 hours.

133
00:09:17,042 --> 00:09:18,584
And it's not a good 10 hours.

134
00:09:21,709 --> 00:09:25,709
- I'd already heard of Michael
before I moved into this flat.

135
00:09:25,709 --> 00:09:27,209
- What had you heard?

136
00:09:28,709 --> 00:09:30,167
Nothing nice.

137
00:09:32,084 --> 00:09:34,959
It all was a bit, sort of,
like... you know, like,

138
00:09:34,959 --> 00:09:37,417
urban legend,

139
00:09:37,459 --> 00:09:40,584
um, that this man
was a Satanist and,

140
00:09:40,667 --> 00:09:43,209
uh, part of the Knights Templar

141
00:09:43,209 --> 00:09:46,709
and he was dangerous and he
could put curses on you and...

142
00:09:46,709 --> 00:09:49,792
um, and that he was
part of a fraud ring

143
00:09:49,792 --> 00:09:52,084
and all sorts of
things like that.

144
00:09:52,167 --> 00:09:55,334
You know, like, there was just
all these stories about him.

145
00:09:55,334 --> 00:09:59,042
- But because of the stories and
the speed that he's doing it,

146
00:09:59,084 --> 00:10:02,834
he kind of captures you into
it, and you kind of get...

147
00:10:02,834 --> 00:10:05,334
you know, you kind of get
taken along for the ride.

148
00:10:05,334 --> 00:10:07,834
It's like being in love.
You know,

149
00:10:07,834 --> 00:10:09,167
a lot of people go through
it - you're in love,

150
00:10:09,209 --> 00:10:11,917
and you don't realise just
how bad the relationship is,

151
00:10:11,959 --> 00:10:14,209
until you step away
from it, cos you're in it.

152
00:10:14,209 --> 00:10:17,959
Once you step away from it,
you realise how crazy... shit got.

153
00:10:20,709 --> 00:10:22,709
- There's clearly more
to Michael Organ

154
00:10:22,709 --> 00:10:25,709
than just being
a vindictive clamper.

155
00:10:25,792 --> 00:10:28,292
When he was living
with Jazz in the '90s,

156
00:10:28,334 --> 00:10:30,167
Organ ran a sex
shop called Taboo.

157
00:10:32,417 --> 00:10:35,834
When he stopped paying rent,
the landlord changed the locks,

158
00:10:35,834 --> 00:10:38,584
evicting him.

159
00:10:38,584 --> 00:10:42,292
Organ wasn't happy and decided
he'd get back at the landlord.

160
00:10:43,334 --> 00:10:45,167
This is the landlord, Rene Dunn.

161
00:10:47,792 --> 00:10:49,834
He's sitting on his
yacht, the Matia.

162
00:10:51,584 --> 00:10:53,209
- So, you know, revenge sets in.

163
00:10:54,834 --> 00:10:57,959
So he's got Matia in his sights.

164
00:10:57,959 --> 00:11:01,167
And it was... you know, it was
tied up to the pole mooring,

165
00:11:01,167 --> 00:11:02,959
and one night,

166
00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:05,584
Michael Organ went aboard
the boat and tried to steal it.

167
00:11:05,584 --> 00:11:08,792
You know, I mean, you can't
just steal a boat. Right?

168
00:11:08,834 --> 00:11:10,334
But this is the
gall of the guy -

169
00:11:11,584 --> 00:11:13,834
he tried to do it.

170
00:11:13,834 --> 00:11:17,042
And the only reason
why it failed

171
00:11:17,917 --> 00:11:20,209
is because Jamie Lockett
threw him off.

172
00:11:23,084 --> 00:11:26,584
- I was not expecting Jamie
Lockett to be a part of this.

173
00:11:26,584 --> 00:11:29,584
Jamie hit the headlines in 2007,

174
00:11:29,584 --> 00:11:32,459
when police accused
him of being a terrorist.

175
00:11:32,459 --> 00:11:35,084
- This is the man police
alleged talked of training

176
00:11:35,167 --> 00:11:38,834
for guerrilla warfare and taking
out white men with no manners.

177
00:11:38,834 --> 00:11:40,959
- He's known to be
an intimidating man,

178
00:11:41,959 --> 00:11:45,334
which is why I'm a little
nervous to meet him.

179
00:11:45,334 --> 00:11:47,792
He lives three hours
north, off the grid,

180
00:11:47,834 --> 00:11:49,334
moving from house to house.

181
00:11:50,959 --> 00:11:54,709
The fact he was somehow involved
in this story had me curious.

182
00:11:54,709 --> 00:11:56,959
- Jamie.

183
00:11:57,292 --> 00:11:58,292
- How are you?

184
00:12:00,459 --> 00:12:00,959
Sorry?

185
00:12:01,709 --> 00:12:02,917
Oh, we'll go down.
That's all right.

186
00:12:02,959 --> 00:12:04,709
- Yep.
- Nice to meet you, sir.

187
00:12:04,792 --> 00:12:06,334
How are you going?

188
00:12:10,042 --> 00:12:13,334
- Rene came to see me and said,
'Jamie, you know, we've found

189
00:12:13,334 --> 00:12:17,167
'the boat. It's in Westhaven.
We want you to get it back.'

190
00:12:17,167 --> 00:12:19,709
Yeah, Rene had organized,
another yacht, a friend's yacht,

191
00:12:19,709 --> 00:12:21,917
where we all were on that,

192
00:12:21,959 --> 00:12:24,042
and we cut the motor
about a kilometer away

193
00:12:24,084 --> 00:12:27,584
and just cruised in
in the early morning,

194
00:12:27,584 --> 00:12:29,167
so you couldn't even hear
us coming. And, of course,

195
00:12:29,209 --> 00:12:32,334
I did my old Bruce Lee
jump on to the boat...

196
00:12:35,084 --> 00:12:38,334
and just went downstairs,
and there was Michael Organe.

197
00:12:39,959 --> 00:12:43,334
He just couldn't believe me
coming down the companionway.

198
00:12:43,334 --> 00:12:45,334
So, he had a phone in one
hand...

199
00:12:45,334 --> 00:12:47,709
and, um...

200
00:12:47,709 --> 00:12:50,167
he started trying to
call somebody,

201
00:12:50,167 --> 00:12:52,667
so I just knocked the
phone out of his hand.

202
00:12:52,709 --> 00:12:55,709
And pretty well just...

203
00:12:55,792 --> 00:12:58,292
you know, cos I've
been doing this all my life.

204
00:13:01,334 --> 00:13:04,792
OK? That's what karate's
all about. And so...

205
00:13:04,792 --> 00:13:06,959
what you do,
in situations like that,

206
00:13:07,042 --> 00:13:09,667
when I have to manhandle
another human being,

207
00:13:09,709 --> 00:13:11,709
now, if they've got
hair on their head,

208
00:13:11,709 --> 00:13:13,584
I'll come in and grab
their head, their hair.

209
00:13:13,584 --> 00:13:16,167
- Right.
- And cos this is so strong,

210
00:13:16,167 --> 00:13:19,334
that I actually can
pull the skin up tight,

211
00:13:19,334 --> 00:13:22,209
and the brain goes into a...
like, into a zombie mode.

212
00:13:22,209 --> 00:13:24,834
So I come in and just
go...

213
00:13:24,834 --> 00:13:27,417
On his head, and I've got it.

214
00:13:27,417 --> 00:13:30,167
So I had him in my... you know,
I had him in my grip.

215
00:13:30,167 --> 00:13:33,709
And he's just gone
into an instant fright.

216
00:13:33,709 --> 00:13:36,459
So I then have to
manhandle him...

217
00:13:36,459 --> 00:13:39,917
cos he can't manhandle - he's in
a... the whole body's stopped,

218
00:13:39,959 --> 00:13:42,292
cos I've got his - this here;
this here's so tight,

219
00:13:42,292 --> 00:13:45,084
and for good measure,
I just did a nice, uh...

220
00:13:46,084 --> 00:13:49,917
heel, uh, kick on his phone,
and that broke,

221
00:13:49,959 --> 00:13:53,542
which is probably I shouldn't
have done that, but, you know...

222
00:13:53,584 --> 00:13:55,917
So I got Organe...
into the dinghy.

223
00:13:55,959 --> 00:13:57,959
We even provided a dinghy...

224
00:13:59,209 --> 00:14:02,959
just in case he didn't have one,
which I don't think he did.

225
00:14:02,959 --> 00:14:05,959
So we had our own dinghy, and
I put Organe into the dinghy,

226
00:14:05,959 --> 00:14:07,667
and I looked him in
the eyes, and I said,

227
00:14:07,709 --> 00:14:09,334
'Don't speak.'

228
00:14:11,209 --> 00:14:13,042
And then we saw all the police
cars going over the bumpity

229
00:14:13,084 --> 00:14:15,709
bumps down Westhaven.

230
00:14:15,709 --> 00:14:17,959
There was about eight
of them.

231
00:14:20,792 --> 00:14:23,459
So, you know,
I'd committed no of fence.

232
00:14:23,542 --> 00:14:25,167
I got him out of the boat, um...

233
00:14:26,959 --> 00:14:28,959
I actually accidentally stood
on his cell phone, I suppose.

234
00:14:28,959 --> 00:14:32,209
But, you know, besides
that, I used, um...

235
00:14:32,209 --> 00:14:34,834
not excessive force to
get him off that boat,

236
00:14:34,917 --> 00:14:36,834
and I got him off
that boat quickly.

237
00:14:38,917 --> 00:14:40,959
No mucking around.
That's why, you know,

238
00:14:41,042 --> 00:14:43,042
Rene wanted me to do it.

239
00:14:43,084 --> 00:14:45,542
I don't think anybody else could
have done it like I did it.

240
00:14:45,584 --> 00:14:48,584
You should have seen him. He was
running up the A Pier screaming,

241
00:14:48,584 --> 00:14:50,459
'Argh!' in his underpants.

242
00:14:54,792 --> 00:14:56,834
- Michael was sentenced
to three years in prison

243
00:14:56,834 --> 00:14:58,334
for stealing the Matia.

244
00:15:01,334 --> 00:15:04,834
This is the article that got
me hooked on Michael -

245
00:15:04,917 --> 00:15:07,209
the one that also mentioned
he was a prince.

246
00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:13,417
Well, the thing is,
Michael Organ

247
00:15:13,459 --> 00:15:17,084
is constantly doing wildly
strange things with his name.

248
00:15:18,167 --> 00:15:20,292
He often misspells
his first name.

249
00:15:22,459 --> 00:15:26,084
But then he gets more elaborate,
claiming to be a prince,

250
00:15:27,334 --> 00:15:29,334
sometimes a count.

251
00:15:39,334 --> 00:15:42,417
I know about this because
he's doing it all in court,...

252
00:15:42,459 --> 00:15:44,584
a lot.

253
00:15:44,584 --> 00:15:47,209
- He, uh,

254
00:15:47,209 --> 00:15:51,167
arrived with a big box, and it
was very, very important.

255
00:15:51,209 --> 00:15:53,917
It was held out as if to say,
'I'm very, very important.

256
00:15:53,959 --> 00:15:56,084
'Be careful with this.'
You know?

257
00:15:56,167 --> 00:15:58,584
Uh, and at the appropriate
time in the case,

258
00:15:59,959 --> 00:16:03,084
when he was trying to drive
home how important he was,

259
00:16:03,167 --> 00:16:06,209
he opened up the box
and presented a crown

260
00:16:06,334 --> 00:16:08,917
and said that it was
given to him by royalty

261
00:16:08,959 --> 00:16:11,584
and he's dined with royalty
and...

262
00:16:11,584 --> 00:16:14,084
- Did he pop the crown on
his head in the courtroom?

263
00:16:14,167 --> 00:16:16,042
Or just hold it?
- I don't think he actually got

264
00:16:16,084 --> 00:16:18,084
to the point where
he was allowed to,

265
00:16:18,167 --> 00:16:21,334
because I think the judge almost
instantly said, 'Put it away.'

266
00:16:21,417 --> 00:16:23,709
You know, she just...

267
00:16:23,709 --> 00:16:26,584
The ending of the case
was the interesting bit,

268
00:16:26,584 --> 00:16:28,417
because she said to Michael...

269
00:16:29,959 --> 00:16:33,084
uh, 'I'm going to ask
you to leave first.

270
00:16:33,167 --> 00:16:35,709
'And I'm going to
walk you to the elevator,

271
00:16:35,792 --> 00:16:37,542
'and I'm going to
watch you go down.'

272
00:16:38,834 --> 00:16:40,834
So I thought, 'Ooh, that's...

273
00:16:42,334 --> 00:16:45,334
'odd, interesting.'
So she walked out,

274
00:16:45,334 --> 00:16:47,959
and John and I were sitting
there alone for a few minutes.

275
00:16:48,042 --> 00:16:50,834
And I thought, 'OK.
I wonder why that was.'

276
00:16:50,834 --> 00:16:52,917
And then she came back
into the room and said,

277
00:16:52,917 --> 00:16:55,209
'I'm sorry about that.

278
00:16:55,209 --> 00:16:58,792
'Michael Organ might
not have recognised me,

279
00:16:58,792 --> 00:17:00,959
'but I most certainly
recognised him.'

280
00:17:02,459 --> 00:17:06,042
And she advised that we, not
just walk out of there, but run.

281
00:17:06,125 --> 00:17:08,625
And she said,
'Don't ever look back.

282
00:17:08,667 --> 00:17:12,000
'Don't ever have anything
to do with that man again.'

283
00:17:15,042 --> 00:17:18,250
- I wonder if I should listen
to the judge's advice.

284
00:17:18,292 --> 00:17:21,125
The fact Michael's known
to the legal system here

285
00:17:21,125 --> 00:17:24,542
speaks volumes - he's obviously
a litigious nightmare.

286
00:17:26,042 --> 00:17:29,042
But not because he's
a lawyer - he's not.

287
00:17:29,125 --> 00:17:31,417
I've checked his
legal qualifications,

288
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:32,917
and he doesn't have any.

289
00:17:35,292 --> 00:17:38,917
But that doesn't stop him
acting like he's a lawyer.

290
00:17:38,917 --> 00:17:40,542
And as I look through
other cases Michael's

291
00:17:40,625 --> 00:17:43,167
been involved in,

292
00:17:43,250 --> 00:17:46,375
I can't help but think of his
behaviour clamping cars.

293
00:17:48,042 --> 00:17:51,292
- The problem with Michael
is once he gets on to you,

294
00:17:51,375 --> 00:17:53,875
he won't let go.

295
00:17:53,917 --> 00:17:57,792
<i>—</i> If he perceives someone's
giving you information,

296
00:17:57,792 --> 00:18:00,917
if he gets any inkling of who
it might be or whatever,

297
00:18:00,917 --> 00:18:02,917
I'll tell you what -
he'll go after them.

298
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,375
- Are you there?
- Yes. Hello.

299
00:18:05,417 --> 00:18:07,292
- There you are. What do
you wanna talk about tonight?

300
00:18:07,292 --> 00:18:10,542
- Well, my name is Michael
Organ, and I'm, um,

301
00:18:10,542 --> 00:18:12,542
the chap who's been, um,

302
00:18:12,542 --> 00:18:14,667
cited in the media,

303
00:18:14,667 --> 00:18:17,292
um, in regards to the
clamping in Ponsonby —

304
00:18:18,667 --> 00:18:21,542
the journalist, David Farrier.

305
00:18:21,542 --> 00:18:24,542
- He's calling talk back radio
about his bonkers clamping,

306
00:18:24,542 --> 00:18:26,542
and he's read my articles.

307
00:18:26,542 --> 00:18:28,417
- With clamping,
there are no real rules.

308
00:18:28,542 --> 00:18:30,417
And in your situation,

309
00:18:30,417 --> 00:18:33,917
you were basically allowed
to do whatever you liked.

310
00:18:33,917 --> 00:18:37,292
And what I'm saying-
- No, no, no, no. Jeremy, no.

311
00:18:37,292 --> 00:18:39,625
We- We- We- No, no.
- ...on your property, you can-

312
00:18:39,667 --> 00:18:41,500
— Farrier - and this is
one of the things-

313
00:18:41,542 --> 00:18:43,792
<i>_</i> NO-
- ...that we have considered-

314
00:18:43,792 --> 00:18:46,292
And it's a matter of record.

315
00:18:46,375 --> 00:18:48,167
- So the very first time- Hold
on, mate. Hold on. Hold on.

316
00:18:48,167 --> 00:18:50,917
Hold on.
- We have proof of that.

317
00:18:50,917 --> 00:18:53,792
- The very first time
you clamped someone -

318
00:18:53,875 --> 00:18:56,042
not the 50th time or
the hundredth time,

319
00:18:56,042 --> 00:18:59,167
or the fourth time David Farrier
did an article on you —

320
00:18:59,167 --> 00:19:01,500
the very first time.
- Every single time.

321
00:19:05,292 --> 00:19:08,292
- The $760 for half an
hour of illicit car parking.

322
00:19:09,167 --> 00:19:12,917
- Uncontrolled, um, exorbitant,

323
00:19:12,917 --> 00:19:16,375
uh, and sometimes
intimidating behaviour.

324
00:19:16,417 --> 00:19:19,792
- Bashford Antiques,
they were called.

325
00:19:19,875 --> 00:19:23,375
- Thanks, in part, to Jillian's
extreme stance on clamping,

326
00:19:23,375 --> 00:19:25,042
Parliament is now debating

327
00:19:25,042 --> 00:19:26,917
whether the law
should be changed.

328
00:19:26,917 --> 00:19:29,042
- I just simply can't get

329
00:19:29,042 --> 00:19:30,750
my head around
that sort of practice

330
00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:32,542
and that sort of behaviour.

331
00:19:32,542 --> 00:19:34,542
And it is time to
bring an end to it.

332
00:19:34,625 --> 00:19:37,042
- The question is that
the motion be agreed to.

333
00:19:37,125 --> 00:19:39,125
Those of that opinion
will say 'aye'.

334
00:19:39,167 --> 00:19:41,167
- MPs: Aye.
- To the contrary, no.

335
00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:42,750
The ayes have it.

336
00:19:44,292 --> 00:19:45,792
- No more clamping...

337
00:19:46,917 --> 00:19:48,417
and no more Bashfords -

338
00:19:52,792 --> 00:19:56,000
the clamping mania has
scared a lot of people away,

339
00:19:56,042 --> 00:19:58,167
and Jillian shuts the shop down.

340
00:20:02,542 --> 00:20:04,750
All that's left behind
is the old sign.

341
00:20:07,292 --> 00:20:09,792
I take it home as a memento
to the madness.

342
00:20:11,917 --> 00:20:14,542
I guess this is my final
piece, the eulogy...

343
00:20:16,542 --> 00:20:20,417
but my mistake -
Bashfords isn't dead.

344
00:20:20,417 --> 00:20:22,667
- You're talking to me about
allegation of the theft of

345
00:20:22,667 --> 00:20:25,292
business signs from
Bashford Antiques,

346
00:20:25,292 --> 00:20:28,167
and that these are your rights
here that I need to read you.

347
00:20:28,167 --> 00:20:30,542
So you have the
right to remain silent.

348
00:20:30,542 --> 00:20:32,292
You do not have to
make any statement.

349
00:20:32,375 --> 00:20:33,917
Anything you say
will be recorded

350
00:20:33,917 --> 00:20:35,250
and may be given in evidence.

351
00:20:35,292 --> 00:20:38,292
- It looks like Jillian wants
me charged with theft.

352
00:20:39,417 --> 00:20:42,875
This is fucking crazy,
because the sign was just trash

353
00:20:42,917 --> 00:20:44,667
for a store that
no longer exists.

354
00:20:46,292 --> 00:20:48,875
Then I get a court
summons from Jillian.

355
00:20:48,875 --> 00:20:50,417
She's taking legal action.

356
00:20:51,167 --> 00:20:53,750
It's so ridiculous,

357
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:56,250
because the broken old things
are just under my house -

358
00:20:56,292 --> 00:20:58,792
I could've just given them back.

359
00:20:58,792 --> 00:21:00,792
Reading her court filing,

360
00:21:00,792 --> 00:21:03,000
Jillian says we've met
to talk about all this,

361
00:21:03,042 --> 00:21:05,375
but we've never met.

362
00:21:05,375 --> 00:21:07,000
I tried calling her
when all this started,

363
00:21:07,042 --> 00:21:09,292
but she just hung up.

364
00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:17,417
- I don't understand
why Jillian is doing this,

365
00:21:17,417 --> 00:21:19,167
going to all these extremes.

366
00:21:20,167 --> 00:21:22,250
And I wonder if it's really
her...

367
00:21:23,875 --> 00:21:25,542
or if something
else is going on.

368
00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:32,917
When Michael stole that yacht,
he had an accomplice -

369
00:21:32,917 --> 00:21:34,500
someone he'd moved in with;

370
00:21:36,542 --> 00:21:38,667
someone he had
made forge documents

371
00:21:38,792 --> 00:21:41,750
to make it look like
Michael Organ owned the boat.

372
00:21:44,667 --> 00:21:47,792
- He was persistently
gaslighting me...

373
00:21:49,417 --> 00:21:51,875
and everything I did was wrong.

374
00:21:51,875 --> 00:21:54,375
There was a, sort of a...
you know, I was forever being...

375
00:21:54,375 --> 00:21:55,917
Um, it was like, uh...

376
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:01,042
Uh, I felt as though I was
groomed to begin with.

377
00:22:01,042 --> 00:22:03,917
- So you're saying it was a
really calculated decision by

378
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,417
him to really get into your
life and groom you in that way?

379
00:22:07,417 --> 00:22:09,792
- You couldn't think -

380
00:22:09,792 --> 00:22:13,542
I couldn't, and when
you're under that stress,

381
00:22:13,542 --> 00:22:15,167
in that situation, you can't
make sensible decisions.

382
00:22:18,875 --> 00:22:20,542
That's what was getting to me -

383
00:22:22,750 --> 00:22:26,292
I couldn't be the master
of my own destiny.

384
00:22:26,375 --> 00:22:29,417
I mean, that's the
worst space to be in.

385
00:22:30,417 --> 00:22:32,750
It was really getting
me down. I had...

386
00:22:34,542 --> 00:22:37,417
one or two people I could talk
to over this. And, of course,

387
00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:41,292
Michael was trying to separate
me from my friends; like,

388
00:22:41,375 --> 00:22:44,542
some of them were
prohibited from visiting.

389
00:22:44,542 --> 00:22:47,542
He nagged at me one day to...

390
00:22:47,625 --> 00:22:50,542
to help him forge a
signature on a contract.

391
00:22:53,375 --> 00:22:54,667
I was in such a space then,

392
00:22:55,667 --> 00:22:58,375
I would just do anything
to keep him quiet.

393
00:22:59,417 --> 00:23:01,667
I just said, 'Oh well.
If this'll shut him up for...

394
00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:03,917
'you know, for half
a day, it's worth it.'

395
00:23:06,417 --> 00:23:09,375
- When Organ got arrested,
Simon went down with him.

396
00:23:11,542 --> 00:23:14,375
- It was just my darkest time.

397
00:23:14,375 --> 00:23:17,750
All the other parts of my life
that were dark, you know,

398
00:23:17,792 --> 00:23:20,542
sort of, watching the
parents die or whatever;

399
00:23:21,875 --> 00:23:24,792
but, no, this was a dark year.
It was a tough year.

400
00:23:27,792 --> 00:23:29,792
I'm glad that the...

401
00:23:29,792 --> 00:23:33,500
yacht theft happened,

402
00:23:33,542 --> 00:23:35,000
because that gave me an out.

403
00:23:36,125 --> 00:23:37,792
It was the price I had to pay.

404
00:23:39,042 --> 00:23:42,667
Um, yes. Being arrested,

405
00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:45,500
sitting in a jail cell,
doing my community service -

406
00:23:45,542 --> 00:23:47,917
that's what I had to go through

407
00:23:47,917 --> 00:23:50,917
to... to, uh, get away from it-

408
00:23:50,917 --> 00:23:52,417
get away from him.

409
00:23:54,792 --> 00:23:57,667
I was surprised he
was let out so soon.

410
00:23:57,750 --> 00:24:01,000
He... I remember
coming to a traffic...

411
00:24:01,042 --> 00:24:03,542
you know, a pedestrian crossing,
and there he was,

412
00:24:03,542 --> 00:24:07,167
across the street,
sort of making this gesture.

413
00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:10,875
And I went like this - I went,
'Oh my... I don't believe it.'

414
00:24:12,667 --> 00:24:16,125
- It's clear to me that Michael
Organ really affects people -

415
00:24:16,167 --> 00:24:18,417
he can tunnel into their lives,

416
00:24:18,417 --> 00:24:20,125
draw them into his schemes.

417
00:24:21,542 --> 00:24:23,417
And he refuses
to let anything go.

418
00:24:26,042 --> 00:24:28,000
OK. So, I'm walking down
the side of my house,

419
00:24:28,042 --> 00:24:29,542
which is where...

420
00:24:31,792 --> 00:24:34,375
you get to the, uh,
underside of our house.

421
00:24:36,542 --> 00:24:38,375
And up until two days ago...

422
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:42,542
uh, the Bashford Antiques
signs were...

423
00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:46,417
right there.

424
00:24:47,792 --> 00:24:49,292
And they're gone.

425
00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:54,917
Just in time for my
court appearance,

426
00:24:54,917 --> 00:24:57,917
the signs have gone missing
from under my house.

427
00:25:00,792 --> 00:25:03,250
It's a six-hour drive
to Whanganui,

428
00:25:03,292 --> 00:25:06,042
a small town in the
middle of nowhere.

429
00:25:14,917 --> 00:25:17,667
This is where Jillian
filed her legal papers,

430
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:19,125
so it's where I have to go.

431
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:23,792
As I wait outside court,

432
00:25:23,792 --> 00:25:25,167
a figure appears.

433
00:25:33,667 --> 00:25:37,292
It's the man I've been
learning so much about;

434
00:25:37,292 --> 00:25:40,167
the clamper, the prince,
the yacht thief -

435
00:25:40,167 --> 00:25:41,792
Michael Organ.

436
00:25:43,875 --> 00:25:46,917
He's not the disheveled
man I saw clamping cars -

437
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,667
he's now in a velvet
suit and deadly serious,

438
00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:53,042
arguing the signs
I took weren't rubbish,

439
00:25:53,042 --> 00:25:54,542
but precious and valuable.

440
00:25:56,625 --> 00:25:59,042
He talks for hours.

441
00:25:59,042 --> 00:26:01,750
He's incredibly comfortable
in the courtroom,

442
00:26:01,750 --> 00:26:03,875
and despite not being a lawyer,

443
00:26:03,917 --> 00:26:07,292
he absolutely wipes
the floor with me.

444
00:26:07,375 --> 00:26:09,500
Because those signs
vanished into thin air,

445
00:26:09,542 --> 00:26:11,500
I can't give them back,

446
00:26:11,542 --> 00:26:13,750
and so I lose the case.

447
00:26:13,792 --> 00:26:16,917
And I'm ordered to
pay nearly $3000...

448
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,625
for these.

449
00:26:25,542 --> 00:26:28,167
- Thank you, Anna.
- Thanks. Bye.

450
00:26:28,167 --> 00:26:30,542
- Cheers. Bye. Oh, it's gonna be
hard to beat that.

451
00:26:30,625 --> 00:26:32,542
- Hi, Mike, good morning.

452
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,792
- So Michael's a director at

453
00:26:39,875 --> 00:26:43,042
Jillian's now non-existent
antique store,

454
00:26:43,125 --> 00:26:46,167
and he's back on talk back radio,
gloating that he beat me.

455
00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:49,542
Now, this is clamp -
the clamping of people's wheels?

456
00:27:17,375 --> 00:27:20,542
- Yeah. Now, because this is
before the courts and it's-

457
00:27:20,542 --> 00:27:22,917
- Well,

458
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,875
can we just get away from-?
Hey, Mike, Mike,

459
00:27:24,917 --> 00:27:26,667
can we just get away
from David Farrier -

460
00:27:26,667 --> 00:27:28,792
you wanna talk about
clamping in general?

461
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:41,917
- I stay in town for a few days,

462
00:27:41,917 --> 00:27:45,875
to try and figure out what this
unlikely pair is doing together.

463
00:27:48,167 --> 00:27:50,750
When Jillian moved
to this small town,

464
00:27:50,750 --> 00:27:53,542
she bought this beautiful
old bank building.

465
00:27:53,542 --> 00:27:55,917
But who's got the keys?
Michael Organ.

466
00:27:58,792 --> 00:28:00,750
Where he goes,

467
00:28:00,750 --> 00:28:02,667
she follows.

468
00:28:09,917 --> 00:28:12,375
At this point, it's clear
to me that the clamper

469
00:28:12,375 --> 00:28:16,417
she once denied knowing
is deeply involved in her life.

470
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:25,792
- Yeah?

471
00:28:25,875 --> 00:28:27,375
- What?
- They're there.

472
00:28:29,792 --> 00:28:32,000
- They're right across the road.
- OK.

473
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:38,917
I need answers,

474
00:28:38,917 --> 00:28:42,917
so I invite him to
my hotel to talk.

475
00:28:42,917 --> 00:28:46,167
For the last year,
he's refused to speak to me.

476
00:28:46,167 --> 00:28:48,625
That courtroom was the
first time I'd met him,

477
00:28:48,667 --> 00:28:50,917
and all I got was animosity.

478
00:28:50,917 --> 00:28:53,500
I figure there's no
way he'll turn up.

479
00:28:53,542 --> 00:28:55,125
But then...

480
00:28:57,167 --> 00:28:59,792
meet Prince Organe-ski.

481
00:28:59,792 --> 00:29:02,167
- I was furious, cos I had my
hair coloured this morning,

482
00:29:02,167 --> 00:29:04,792
and the guy said,
'I'll do your beard.'

483
00:29:04,792 --> 00:29:07,042
And I've never
had it done before,

484
00:29:07,125 --> 00:29:10,667
and he left all this residue,
which is visible.

485
00:29:10,667 --> 00:29:13,917
So if you want to save me
from being embarrassed,

486
00:29:13,917 --> 00:29:15,375
don't come in on my
face from this side.

487
00:29:15,417 --> 00:29:18,000
- Can I plug it in in the spare
room, inside? Or do you...?

488
00:29:18,042 --> 00:29:19,917
- You're doing a bloody feed.
- Do you want to record

489
00:29:19,917 --> 00:29:21,917
- anything?
- No, no. It's fine.

490
00:29:21,917 --> 00:29:24,875
- Yeah, so what's gonna
happen - this is Danny.

491
00:29:24,875 --> 00:29:26,375
- He works on sound.
- Hi, Danny.

492
00:29:26,375 --> 00:29:29,792
Anyway, when this
was done, I said, 'That's it.'

493
00:29:29,792 --> 00:29:32,250
I said, 'I don't want
you to cut my hair.'

494
00:29:32,292 --> 00:29:34,875
- I like it. It looks good.
- It actually put me off. No.

495
00:29:34,917 --> 00:29:37,125
- It looks great.
- Because he did something I

496
00:29:37,167 --> 00:29:39,375
didn't want him to do. He talked
me into it the first time.

497
00:29:39,417 --> 00:29:41,292
Now, this is your
chair, Jillian. Over here.

498
00:29:41,292 --> 00:29:43,250
And plus
I already had a headache,

499
00:29:43,292 --> 00:29:45,917
and the smell of the
chemicals he put my face,

500
00:29:45,917 --> 00:29:47,792
I just about bloody...
- Yeah. Am I sitting there?

501
00:29:47,875 --> 00:29:50,000
Where's Michael sitting?
- ...it was toxic.

502
00:29:50,042 --> 00:29:51,542
- He's over here.
- This is a radio microphone.

503
00:29:51,625 --> 00:29:53,917
- Unless you wanna take part.

504
00:29:53,917 --> 00:29:55,667
Cos the camera is
gonna have Michael there.

505
00:29:55,667 --> 00:29:57,875
How did you two meet?

506
00:29:57,917 --> 00:30:00,375
How did you come
into each other's lives?

507
00:30:00,375 --> 00:30:03,792
Are you both married?
What's your relationship?

508
00:30:03,875 --> 00:30:05,917
That's private, David.

509
00:30:05,917 --> 00:30:08,250
- You're not much of an
investigative journalist,

510
00:30:08,292 --> 00:30:10,250
if you don't. Or is this
a rhetorical question?

511
00:30:10,292 --> 00:30:11,667
- Oh, I thought I'd
put it straight to you.

512
00:30:11,667 --> 00:30:13,667
I mean, you'd know,

513
00:30:13,667 --> 00:30:15,417
so I thought
I'd ask you directly.

514
00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:19,917
- Is this not a...? Well...

515
00:30:21,542 --> 00:30:23,292
we're going to
say that's private.

516
00:30:24,292 --> 00:30:26,917
Mm.

517
00:30:26,917 --> 00:30:30,917
- I thought it would be a
straightforward yes or no.

518
00:30:30,917 --> 00:30:34,167
So what's it's... I... What
I'd like to cover here is...

519
00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:35,792
- I don't wanna waste
your time if you can't-

520
00:30:35,792 --> 00:30:39,375
- But there's one thing.
There's nothing more irksome,

521
00:30:39,417 --> 00:30:42,875
if someone is controlling -
trying to control the narrative,

522
00:30:42,917 --> 00:30:45,875
when you're the person
who should be doing it.

523
00:30:45,917 --> 00:30:47,167
Where they hopefully will.

524
00:30:47,167 --> 00:30:49,250
- Yeah. You've got no
particular reason to trust me.

525
00:30:49,292 --> 00:30:53,000
- But there are things that
you may not realise fully

526
00:30:53,042 --> 00:30:55,542
the ramifications,
because I'm not telling you

527
00:30:55,625 --> 00:31:00,417
everything that I know
and have evidence of.

528
00:31:00,417 --> 00:31:03,417
I'm not telling you that, cos
you don't need to know it yet.

529
00:31:03,417 --> 00:31:05,917
David, do you know this?

530
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,625
If this was in front of a
tribunal or court of law...

531
00:31:08,667 --> 00:31:11,875
- Mm.
- ...or just a,

532
00:31:11,917 --> 00:31:14,917
um, debate, in so much that

533
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,875
people had to make an
assessment on point of fact...

534
00:31:17,917 --> 00:31:19,542
- Yeah. Mm.

535
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:22,542
- There's not one thing
that you've asserted -

536
00:31:22,542 --> 00:31:25,292
not one thing -
that would stand up.

537
00:31:25,375 --> 00:31:27,292
And I'm not just talking
about you couldn't prove it -

538
00:31:27,292 --> 00:31:29,875
I could actually prove,
beyond all reasonable doubt,

539
00:31:29,917 --> 00:31:32,667
that that assertion was false.

540
00:31:32,667 --> 00:31:34,167
Because there's
a difference between

541
00:31:34,167 --> 00:31:37,167
you not being able
to prove something is true

542
00:31:37,167 --> 00:31:40,667
and me being able to
prove that it's false.

543
00:31:40,667 --> 00:31:43,000
- Why do think I've
got everything wrong -

544
00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:46,917
from your side?
- Uh, wrong?

545
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,125
— It's quite weird sitting
in a room together.

546
00:31:48,167 --> 00:31:50,167
- No, you didn't get
anything wrong, David.

547
00:31:50,292 --> 00:31:52,292
You knew right from the
start what you were doing.

548
00:31:52,292 --> 00:31:54,542
You didn't know all the
facts, but, you know,

549
00:31:54,542 --> 00:31:57,167
you knew what you were doing.

550
00:31:57,250 --> 00:32:00,917
- But what... Like, what does
that make you think of me?

551
00:32:00,917 --> 00:32:03,917
- Uh, I just look
at it objectively,

552
00:32:03,917 --> 00:32:06,792
and, uh... Jillian's laughing.

553
00:32:08,917 --> 00:32:10,375
Jesus.

554
00:32:12,125 --> 00:32:14,292
- I mean, I think I've...

555
00:32:14,375 --> 00:32:17,042
I've described you
as a reptile to people.

556
00:32:17,917 --> 00:32:19,667
- Yeah.
- Mm. As a reptile?

557
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:21,792
Is that fair?

558
00:32:21,792 --> 00:32:24,375
- But, you know,
it's such a shame,

559
00:32:24,375 --> 00:32:27,375
because you probably

560
00:32:27,417 --> 00:32:29,542
would have been quite an
interesting person to know,

561
00:32:29,542 --> 00:32:31,375
if you weren't such a cunt.

562
00:32:34,750 --> 00:32:36,500
— Your life's quite
chaotic, Jillian.

563
00:32:36,542 --> 00:32:38,042
It's quite extraordinary.

564
00:32:38,792 --> 00:32:40,375
- Well...
- It must be quite

565
00:32:40,417 --> 00:32:42,917
extraordinary,
having Michael around.

566
00:32:44,542 --> 00:32:46,000
- Well, he is a genius.

567
00:32:48,667 --> 00:32:50,542
- Yeah.
- I'm not joking.

568
00:32:50,625 --> 00:32:52,917
- Does he grow on you over time?

569
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,917
- Sorry?
- Does he grow on you over time?

570
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,292
- Oh. He's an absolute
genius and...

571
00:33:00,167 --> 00:33:02,417
to be highly respected
in every way.

572
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:03,792
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

573
00:33:03,875 --> 00:33:06,792
- He has an
extraordinary talent.

574
00:33:06,875 --> 00:33:08,917
-Hmm?
- I'm just telling David that

575
00:33:09,042 --> 00:33:10,917
you're a genius - that's all.

576
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,375
— Oh, well, no, that's just...

577
00:33:13,375 --> 00:33:15,250
Don't get into that
stuff, Jillian, please.

578
00:33:15,292 --> 00:33:17,125
- What's your life
been like since

579
00:33:17,167 --> 00:33:19,917
Michael's come into your life?

580
00:33:19,917 --> 00:33:22,042
- Uh, Michael has

581
00:33:22,125 --> 00:33:24,000
enriched my life immensely.

582
00:33:26,375 --> 00:33:28,042
Mm.

583
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:31,417
Every day.
- Oh, well, that sounds lovely.

584
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:32,917
Mm.

585
00:33:35,167 --> 00:33:37,125
- Well, he's a very
caring person.

586
00:33:37,125 --> 00:33:39,750
He is very, very
kind to animals,

587
00:33:39,792 --> 00:33:41,417
and he's very kind to people.

588
00:33:43,125 --> 00:33:44,917
- And it is late. I'm just gonna
grab that out of your pocket.

589
00:33:44,917 --> 00:33:46,750
- You've gotta unhook me.
I'm gonna be taking off

590
00:33:46,792 --> 00:33:48,542
with your microphone.

591
00:33:52,125 --> 00:33:53,917
Well, it's quite interesting
because, like...

592
00:33:53,917 --> 00:33:57,667
- Mm.
- I mean, David's 37; I'm... 67.

593
00:33:57,667 --> 00:34:00,042
So there's a 30-year age gap.

594
00:34:01,042 --> 00:34:03,125
- You know, it's quite...
- Mm. Yeah. There is.

595
00:34:03,167 --> 00:34:06,375
- I mean, that's quite a big
age gap, really, isn't it?

596
00:34:06,417 --> 00:34:07,917
- Do you have any life advice
for me? I've got a bit to go,

597
00:34:08,042 --> 00:34:10,334
as do you.
- Oh, I've got heaps.

598
00:34:10,417 --> 00:34:12,084
- What would be your main thing,
what would be your takeaway for

599
00:34:12,084 --> 00:34:14,792
me, as a sprightly 37-year-old?

600
00:34:14,792 --> 00:34:16,709
- Oh. Well, I think
you already know -

601
00:34:17,667 --> 00:34:19,459
winners never give up.

602
00:34:21,834 --> 00:34:24,459
And happiness is a
place to come from,

603
00:34:24,459 --> 00:34:26,709
- not to get to.
- No, Jillian.

604
00:34:27,834 --> 00:34:29,584
- Well, thanks for
meeting with me, Michael.

605
00:34:29,584 --> 00:34:31,709
- I know you find it
a little... you know,

606
00:34:31,792 --> 00:34:33,709
it's all very well
being jocular, but

607
00:34:33,792 --> 00:34:36,709
this is actually the man
whose helped, um,

608
00:34:36,709 --> 00:34:38,834
fuel the fires of, um...
- Well...

609
00:34:38,917 --> 00:34:41,709
...of in some cases,

610
00:34:41,709 --> 00:34:44,334
hatred.

611
00:34:44,417 --> 00:34:46,459
- You know, and you must
take responsibility for that.

612
00:34:46,459 --> 00:34:50,292
I'm not being necessarily
duped to fall for anything.

613
00:34:50,292 --> 00:34:51,584
But anyway, it's an eye-opener
for you with a few things.

614
00:34:51,667 --> 00:34:53,167
- It is.
- OK.

615
00:34:53,167 --> 00:34:54,584
- Oh, look, and it's raining.
- Goodnight.

616
00:34:54,584 --> 00:34:56,042
- OK.
- Be safe out there.

617
00:34:56,792 --> 00:34:58,334
- Goodnight.

618
00:35:07,042 --> 00:35:09,584
What? Ha.

619
00:35:09,584 --> 00:35:11,584
- Fucking hell.
- Holy shit. What happened?

620
00:35:11,709 --> 00:35:13,167
I dunno.

621
00:35:15,792 --> 00:35:19,334
He's such an odd... He's
likeable when he wants to be liked.

622
00:35:19,417 --> 00:35:22,042
He's funny -
he's, like, a real funny fucker.

623
00:35:22,084 --> 00:35:24,292
And Jillian's quite
funny as well.

624
00:35:24,334 --> 00:35:25,417
It's just a very different
situation to, sort of,

625
00:35:25,459 --> 00:35:26,667
what you expect.

626
00:35:26,709 --> 00:35:30,084
But I don't know what
I expected with them, really.

627
00:35:30,084 --> 00:35:31,709
I don't know.

628
00:35:35,084 --> 00:35:38,042
I don't know what just happened.

629
00:35:38,042 --> 00:35:41,792
This whole situation just
doesn't make sense to me.

630
00:35:41,834 --> 00:35:45,959
The ex-con clamper has embedded
himself in Jillian's life,

631
00:35:45,959 --> 00:35:48,584
and while neither of them
wants to clarify anything,

632
00:35:48,709 --> 00:35:50,167
they seem perfectly happy.

633
00:35:52,209 --> 00:35:55,709
Maybe I'm the problem, blowing
all things out of proportion;

634
00:35:55,834 --> 00:35:58,292
annoyed I just paid this
man nearly $3000.

635
00:36:11,584 --> 00:36:13,084
- Over the next few months,

636
00:36:13,084 --> 00:36:16,084
I talked to over 30
of Jillian's friends,

637
00:36:16,084 --> 00:36:18,292
and they're all terrified
of Michael.

638
00:36:28,584 --> 00:36:30,167
- Just the lawyers
had your name to call.

639
00:36:31,334 --> 00:36:32,959
<i>_</i> Um-

640
00:36:35,667 --> 00:36:38,292
- New Zealand is a small place,

641
00:36:38,334 --> 00:36:41,709
and they think if they talk to
me, he'll come after them.

642
00:36:41,709 --> 00:36:44,459
Only one person agrees
to go on the record -

643
00:36:44,459 --> 00:36:46,584
Jillian's son.

644
00:36:46,667 --> 00:36:48,959
- He's just in your ear.

645
00:36:48,959 --> 00:36:50,084
He's like the little
devil on your shoulder;

646
00:36:50,167 --> 00:36:51,584
he just churns away at you.

647
00:36:52,834 --> 00:36:55,209
He managed to just drive a wedge
between all the close friends;

648
00:36:55,209 --> 00:36:56,792
slowly chipping away-

649
00:36:58,167 --> 00:37:00,209
More or less just scared
them, to the point where

650
00:37:00,292 --> 00:37:02,209
they didn't wanna
come in the door.

651
00:37:05,334 --> 00:37:06,959
- When Michael Organ
got out of prison,

652
00:37:06,959 --> 00:37:09,334
he filed for bankruptcy.

653
00:37:09,459 --> 00:37:12,959
It was October of 2007.

654
00:37:13,042 --> 00:37:15,084
Like, do you remember when

655
00:37:15,084 --> 00:37:18,209
Michael did turn
up on the scene?

656
00:37:18,209 --> 00:37:20,334
- It was October 2007.

657
00:37:20,334 --> 00:37:22,917
And I remember it quite vividly.

658
00:37:22,959 --> 00:37:25,292
I walked in to the shop,...

659
00:37:25,292 --> 00:37:28,209
and here was this character
sitting there...

660
00:37:28,292 --> 00:37:30,209
eating lunch with Mum.

661
00:37:30,292 --> 00:37:32,792
And I felt this, um...

662
00:37:32,792 --> 00:37:36,584
As you do, I just sort of almost
walked into it - an aura.

663
00:37:36,584 --> 00:37:39,542
And, um, she just fobbed it
off, 'Oh, he's harmless.

664
00:37:39,542 --> 00:37:41,834
'He's just a... just, you know,

665
00:37:41,917 --> 00:37:44,167
'he's just coming in for lunch
every day of the week,

666
00:37:44,209 --> 00:37:46,334
'and he's quite clever, and he's
really good at antiques,

667
00:37:46,459 --> 00:37:47,834
'and he knows his stuff,

668
00:37:47,834 --> 00:37:50,334
'and I'm really enjoying
conversation with him.'

669
00:37:50,459 --> 00:37:53,334
That was, sort of, really,
the initial meeting.

670
00:37:53,334 --> 00:37:56,334
And I just felt, straightaway,
this aura that was totally

671
00:37:56,334 --> 00:37:58,792
really creepy and evil.

672
00:37:58,834 --> 00:38:02,167
- I wonder why no one
tried to get rid of Michael.

673
00:38:02,167 --> 00:38:05,834
But here's the thing - they did.

674
00:38:05,917 --> 00:38:07,584
- I've clone it twice. Twice,

675
00:38:07,584 --> 00:38:09,959
I've actually formally
trespassed him,

676
00:38:10,042 --> 00:38:12,542
packed all his belongings into
boxes and delivered it to him,

677
00:38:12,584 --> 00:38:14,167
wherever he was residing
at the time.

678
00:38:14,209 --> 00:38:16,459
- And so where did he
go and live in that time?

679
00:38:16,459 --> 00:38:19,334
- And I believe that's probably,
thinking about it now,

680
00:38:19,334 --> 00:38:21,417
that's probably around the
time that he went to

681
00:38:21,417 --> 00:38:23,417
those guys and said,
'I've been beaten and abused.'

682
00:38:23,417 --> 00:38:26,709
And, 'Poor me! Woe is me! Help!'

683
00:38:28,834 --> 00:38:31,209
- We'd obviously got

684
00:38:31,209 --> 00:38:33,834
into a conversation
about homophobia or...

685
00:38:33,834 --> 00:38:36,584
whatever it was, and
I had relayed the story

686
00:38:36,709 --> 00:38:39,459
of my growing up in
a homophobic family.

687
00:38:39,584 --> 00:38:41,709
Uh, and then
a little while later...

688
00:38:42,834 --> 00:38:45,167
his story matched mine.

689
00:38:45,167 --> 00:38:48,334
Uh, but it was aimed
at Jillian Bashford —

690
00:38:49,959 --> 00:38:52,334
Uh, you know, 'Oh, yes, I get
treated like that every day;

691
00:38:52,459 --> 00:38:54,792
'I get homophobic comments,
and she beats me,

692
00:38:54,834 --> 00:38:56,292
"and she hits me and...'

693
00:38:57,959 --> 00:39:01,292
The story resonated with
me so much that I thought,

694
00:39:01,292 --> 00:39:03,834
'Oh. If there's any...

695
00:39:03,917 --> 00:39:07,167
'any truth to that whatsoever,
then I've gotta help out.'

696
00:39:07,209 --> 00:39:09,459
And, uh, a couple of days
after he'd moved in,

697
00:39:09,542 --> 00:39:11,417
I thought, 'Oh, my God...

698
00:39:11,459 --> 00:39:12,917
'this is trouble.'

699
00:39:14,709 --> 00:39:18,167
It was a very weird
out-of-body experience.

700
00:39:18,167 --> 00:39:21,292
I couldn't make
head or tails of it.

701
00:39:21,334 --> 00:39:23,334
It was frightening.
It was, uh...

702
00:39:24,834 --> 00:39:27,334
He had this sort of control
and hold over you,

703
00:39:27,417 --> 00:39:30,459
and you found yourself

704
00:39:30,542 --> 00:39:32,334
doing all these things and
putting up with various things

705
00:39:32,417 --> 00:39:34,459
and... But, yeah, I...

706
00:39:34,542 --> 00:39:37,834
I didn't know how to handle it;

707
00:39:37,834 --> 00:39:40,417
I didn't know how to get
rid of him. It was like this,

708
00:39:40,459 --> 00:39:43,584
you know, puss-y thing
on you that won't go away.

709
00:39:43,584 --> 00:39:45,334
- A fairly desperate kind of
situation that you're stuck in?

710
00:39:45,417 --> 00:39:47,709
- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

711
00:39:47,792 --> 00:39:51,084
I was pretty suicidal
at the time anyway.

712
00:39:51,084 --> 00:39:54,084
And that just, sort of, was
pulling me over the edge,

713
00:39:54,167 --> 00:39:55,959
because I just thought,
you know,

714
00:39:57,292 --> 00:40:00,042
'This is a... What crazy world
have I landed in here?'

715
00:40:01,334 --> 00:40:04,709
Yeah. I mean, <i>I... I...</i>
There was a few attempts;

716
00:40:04,792 --> 00:40:07,792
one that I shouldn't
have survived.

717
00:40:07,792 --> 00:40:10,334
And I wondered why,
when I did survive it.

718
00:40:11,917 --> 00:40:14,167
I was very angry about that.
I thought, 'No. I can't...

719
00:40:14,209 --> 00:40:16,709
'I can't keep waking
up in this world.

720
00:40:16,709 --> 00:40:19,334
'I don't want to
be a part of this.'

721
00:40:19,417 --> 00:40:21,042
- Right. So you'd be in a
pretty terrible way around him,

722
00:40:21,084 --> 00:40:23,084
and he'd just have no...
- Oh, no.

723
00:40:23,167 --> 00:40:25,459
- Nothing? Not,
'How are you going? And...'?

724
00:40:25,459 --> 00:40:27,584
- No. Never got a 'Hello'
or a 'How are you,'

725
00:40:27,667 --> 00:40:30,209
or 'Can I make you a cup
of tea? Are you OK?'

726
00:40:30,209 --> 00:40:32,459
No, no, no. I was
just the manservant.

727
00:40:32,459 --> 00:40:35,584
- But, I mean, obviously, when
you were traumatized by that,

728
00:40:35,667 --> 00:40:37,459
I mean, you would
have almost been dead,

729
00:40:37,542 --> 00:40:39,334
where was he? What was he doing?

730
00:40:40,042 --> 00:40:42,584
What?

731
00:40:42,667 --> 00:40:45,209
- Telling his stories.
- I don't know.

732
00:40:45,292 --> 00:40:47,292
- Yeah. But he's in
the house with you?

733
00:40:47,334 --> 00:40:48,917
- Yeah. Yeah.

734
00:40:50,917 --> 00:40:53,417
Just ordering me
around.

735
00:40:53,459 --> 00:40:54,959
Getting me out of bed.

736
00:40:58,334 --> 00:41:00,959
- Happened to be driving
down Ponsonby Rd,

737
00:41:00,959 --> 00:41:02,709
and there was the van coming
towards me. And I thought, 'Oh.

738
00:41:02,709 --> 00:41:05,334
'Here - this must be Mum,
and...'

739
00:41:05,459 --> 00:41:08,834
Sure enough, it was two weeks
later, and there he was...

740
00:41:08,834 --> 00:41:10,834
in the van; wangled
his way back in.

741
00:41:14,042 --> 00:41:16,334
- I think once Organ latches on,

742
00:41:16,417 --> 00:41:17,917
he doesn't let go.

743
00:41:19,167 --> 00:41:21,709
It's why he thrived
clamping cars.

744
00:41:21,709 --> 00:41:24,292
It was never about the money;

745
00:41:24,334 --> 00:41:26,209
it was about physically
trapping people,

746
00:41:26,292 --> 00:41:28,334
so he could torment
them for hours.

747
00:41:30,084 --> 00:41:33,584
I don't believe Jillian ever
wanted her signs back -

748
00:41:33,584 --> 00:41:37,334
I believe it was Michael
who wanted me in court.

749
00:41:37,334 --> 00:41:39,959
And thanks to that case...
he's got my number.

750
00:41:49,292 --> 00:41:50,334
- Sorry?
- Which I still...

751
00:41:50,334 --> 00:41:52,667
— What? I'm curious who...

752
00:41:54,834 --> 00:41:56,584
- Oh, so you're saying you've
got a key to my house?

753
00:42:23,709 --> 00:42:25,834
- That does seem
quite weird. I mean,

754
00:42:25,917 --> 00:42:28,167
I'd prefer you didn't have
a key to my house, you know?

755
00:42:34,959 --> 00:42:36,584
So, yeah. Well, it's...

756
00:42:36,667 --> 00:42:38,834
I don't know what the
point of any of it is.

757
00:42:38,917 --> 00:42:42,334
Like, if he has a key
for my house, it's like...

758
00:42:42,334 --> 00:42:44,209
- if it is a key to your house,
that's very bizarre. Like, who...?

759
00:42:44,209 --> 00:42:47,959
- It's weird. But, like, the
story is so, <i>like...</i> it's <i>so...</i>

760
00:42:47,959 --> 00:42:50,459
But what he's done has
now made me think,

761
00:42:50,542 --> 00:42:52,334
'Holy shit. Who do I know...

762
00:42:52,417 --> 00:42:54,334
'has turned on me?'

763
00:42:54,334 --> 00:42:56,709
And if it is my key,

764
00:42:56,709 --> 00:42:59,584
then he's either fucking
stolen it somehow,...

765
00:42:59,584 --> 00:43:01,959
which is, um...
makes me sound crazy.

766
00:43:01,959 --> 00:43:03,167
Like, if I told anyone this -
if that key opens my house,

767
00:43:04,209 --> 00:43:06,084
if I explain the situation
to anyone,

768
00:43:06,084 --> 00:43:08,584
it makes me sound
like I've lost the plot,

769
00:43:08,584 --> 00:43:12,167
cos it makes no sense. Or I
spend the rest of my life now,

770
00:43:12,209 --> 00:43:13,167
looking at every friend and,
like, every crew member,

771
00:43:14,209 --> 00:43:16,167
going, 'Who gave Michael
Organ my key?'

772
00:43:16,209 --> 00:43:18,834
- Well. Don't
actually look happy,

773
00:43:18,834 --> 00:43:20,667
because we should be quite
stern in front of Mr Farrier,

774
00:43:20,709 --> 00:43:23,542
considering how-
- Well, I'll film it.

775
00:43:23,584 --> 00:43:25,584
- ...terrible he's
been towards us.

776
00:43:26,834 --> 00:43:29,459
Oh, are you going to film it?
Well, I hope it's all right.

777
00:43:29,542 --> 00:43:31,459
OK.

778
00:43:31,542 --> 00:43:35,084
- So, like, explain to me
what is going on now,

779
00:43:35,084 --> 00:43:37,584
cos this is an odd scene.
- Well, as we discussed earlier,

780
00:43:37,584 --> 00:43:40,084
and no doubt you recorded,...
<i>—</i> Mm.

781
00:43:40,084 --> 00:43:44,709
— ...um, this was a key that
was given to Jillian and I...

782
00:43:44,709 --> 00:43:48,292
about three months after
we vacated Ponsonby.

783
00:43:48,334 --> 00:43:50,209
— It's super-weird.
I'll admit that. Like, you know.

784
00:43:50,209 --> 00:43:52,334
- Well, you trigger
this, you see.

785
00:43:52,417 --> 00:43:55,542
And you've triggered it in our
life, because this man came into

786
00:43:55,542 --> 00:43:58,209
our life because of you,...
<i>—</i> Mm.

787
00:43:58,209 --> 00:43:59,917
- ...personally, and because
of what you've published.

788
00:43:59,917 --> 00:44:01,709
- Why did you tell
me about this?

789
00:44:01,709 --> 00:44:04,959
- Because it tied in

790
00:44:04,959 --> 00:44:08,084
with some of the things
that you were saying

791
00:44:08,167 --> 00:44:10,292
in our conversation
an hour or so ago,

792
00:44:11,459 --> 00:44:14,709
that sometimes people,
when you know them,

793
00:44:14,792 --> 00:44:17,959
or they get close to you,

794
00:44:17,959 --> 00:44:21,959
or in your circle through
other people you know,

795
00:44:21,959 --> 00:44:24,792
may actually be- I don't use the
term wolves in sheep's clothing,

796
00:44:24,834 --> 00:44:26,834
but that's what
they can actually be.

797
00:44:26,959 --> 00:44:28,584
- Right.
- You know, they can even sit

798
00:44:28,584 --> 00:44:30,084
there, they can eat your food,

799
00:44:30,167 --> 00:44:32,834
they can sit at the table with
you, share your wine,

800
00:44:32,959 --> 00:44:37,084
they can smile when they
greet you - all those things.

801
00:44:37,084 --> 00:44:39,542
- These people are amongst us.
- And at the end of the day,

802
00:44:39,584 --> 00:44:43,167
there is that side
to some people.

803
00:44:43,209 --> 00:44:46,542
— Just don't know why anyone
would want you in the house,

804
00:44:46,584 --> 00:44:48,334
or to give you the opportunity
to come into my house.

805
00:44:48,334 --> 00:44:50,792
It's just a super-weird thing.
- Well, I think I know.

806
00:44:50,834 --> 00:44:52,709
But that's supposition.
- Why? What? You're saying what?

807
00:44:52,792 --> 00:44:55,584
- That might be for a
documentary that I do.

808
00:44:55,584 --> 00:44:58,834
I mean, and the thing is
you haven't played ball,

809
00:44:58,834 --> 00:45:01,167
and you've been printing
bloody twaddle for years.

810
00:45:01,167 --> 00:45:03,709
- OK.

811
00:45:03,709 --> 00:45:06,917
Well, thanks for giving
my key back to me.

812
00:45:06,917 --> 00:45:08,209
And I appreciate that.
- Yeah. Yeah. Well-

813
00:45:08,209 --> 00:45:09,709
- So thank you.
- You know.

814
00:45:09,709 --> 00:45:11,959
- And are you OK, Jillian?

815
00:45:12,042 --> 00:45:14,084
- I'm very well.
- Well, that's...

816
00:45:14,084 --> 00:45:15,584
- Very well.
- Yeah.

817
00:45:21,084 --> 00:45:23,084
Knowing what I know
about Organ...

818
00:45:23,167 --> 00:45:24,584
I worry about Jillian.

819
00:45:25,959 --> 00:45:27,584
And now I'm worried
that Michael Organ

820
00:45:27,584 --> 00:45:29,959
somehow has a key to my house.

821
00:45:29,959 --> 00:45:33,834
I don't know.
I don't. It's like <i>my...</i>

822
00:45:33,834 --> 00:45:35,834
- And It looks like your key?
- Yeah, it does.

823
00:45:35,959 --> 00:45:37,167
Yeah, it does look
a lot like my key.

824
00:45:37,167 --> 00:45:39,334
I think he does have
the key to my house.

825
00:45:41,417 --> 00:45:44,917
Um, I just don't know how it
fits in with the story at all.

826
00:45:44,959 --> 00:45:47,917
And I mean,
what the fuck is going on?

827
00:45:47,959 --> 00:45:50,959
Back at my house,
away from Michael Organ...

828
00:45:50,959 --> 00:45:52,417
I try the key.

829
00:45:57,334 --> 00:45:59,042
Fuck!

830
00:46:01,959 --> 00:46:04,709
Michael knows I'm making
a film about him,

831
00:46:04,792 --> 00:46:06,834
and I think he wants
to be a part of it.

832
00:46:08,209 --> 00:46:11,167
I wasn't expecting
to be in this position,

833
00:46:11,209 --> 00:46:13,542
but I figure that if I spend
enough time with him,

834
00:46:13,584 --> 00:46:15,584
he'll show some cracks.

835
00:46:15,584 --> 00:46:17,584
So me and Michael, well...

836
00:46:17,584 --> 00:46:19,084
we start to hang out.

837
00:46:26,209 --> 00:46:29,167
- We're just getting
you - we're not...

838
00:46:29,209 --> 00:46:30,709
- Well, what-
- No, he doesn't wanna...

839
00:46:33,584 --> 00:46:35,459
So he, urn...

840
00:46:35,459 --> 00:46:37,834
- OK, we'll put the camera down.

841
00:46:37,917 --> 00:46:40,792
Despite inviting me
and my crew in...

842
00:46:40,834 --> 00:46:43,292
he's hot and cold
about us filming.

843
00:46:43,334 --> 00:46:45,834
He seems to enjoy the
power he has over me.

844
00:46:45,834 --> 00:46:47,209
- You see -
he's filming in here.

845
00:46:47,334 --> 00:46:48,834
- Yeah, but we're
bringing it down now.

846
00:46:48,834 --> 00:46:50,167
Once we enter, it comes down.
- Out of interest -

847
00:46:50,209 --> 00:46:51,792
I don't want to control
your editing of it,

848
00:46:51,834 --> 00:46:53,834
but I'd love to see what -

849
00:46:53,917 --> 00:46:54,792
cos you can play it back on it,
so just show me a few excerpts;

850
00:46:54,834 --> 00:46:56,959
- Yep.
- I'm curious.

851
00:46:56,959 --> 00:46:59,834
- He hates being filmed,
but he also loves it.

852
00:46:59,834 --> 00:47:02,542
<i>To the key...</i>

853
00:47:02,542 --> 00:47:06,334
- I'm not going to tell you,
at this stage, about the key.

854
00:47:06,459 --> 00:47:08,167
- ...will you tell me at some
point? Cos I think that's, like-

855
00:47:08,167 --> 00:47:10,167
- Perhaps,
but that's not a promise.

856
00:47:10,167 --> 00:47:12,834
- ...a bit of a game.
- No, it's not a game,

857
00:47:12,834 --> 00:47:15,917
because the person
who provided that key...

858
00:47:17,667 --> 00:47:20,709
um, would expect
confidentiality.

859
00:47:20,709 --> 00:47:23,292
It wasn't promised them,
but they'd expect it.

860
00:47:23,334 --> 00:47:25,959
And they're not the kinds
of people you want to cross.

861
00:47:25,959 --> 00:47:28,834
- He refuses to expand
on why he's got my key,

862
00:47:28,917 --> 00:47:31,334
or say anything, really.

863
00:47:31,334 --> 00:47:34,584
He avoids naming
anyone or being specific.

864
00:47:34,584 --> 00:47:37,042
- Are you a monarchist, David?

865
00:47:37,084 --> 00:47:39,667
- I'm not particularly,
no, to be honest.

866
00:47:39,709 --> 00:47:41,584
- Mm. Are you
right- or left-handed?

867
00:47:41,584 --> 00:47:42,959
- I'm left-handed.
- Damn.

868
00:47:44,334 --> 00:47:46,167
- OK. I can have this one here?
- Yeah, we'll give you that one.

869
00:47:46,209 --> 00:47:47,792
So you can't escape,
you see.

870
00:47:47,792 --> 00:47:50,334
— Thank you. Thank you, Michael.

871
00:47:50,459 --> 00:47:52,667
No poison in this?

872
00:47:52,667 --> 00:47:55,084
Just“.
- Hey. Don't imply such things.

873
00:47:55,167 --> 00:47:56,959
I'm not into that.

874
00:47:57,334 --> 00:47:59,417
Cheers.

875
00:47:59,459 --> 00:48:01,459
- Cheers.

876
00:48:01,584 --> 00:48:03,959
Without being... snobby,

877
00:48:04,084 --> 00:48:07,084
I'm proud of my ancestry.

878
00:48:07,084 --> 00:48:09,167
There's Crown charters in which

879
00:48:09,209 --> 00:48:12,167
my ancestors are
referred to as nobles.

880
00:48:12,167 --> 00:48:13,667
We're talking about
from the earliest days of

881
00:48:13,709 --> 00:48:16,209
the Norman Conquest.

882
00:48:16,209 --> 00:48:19,584
And then things like the
sheriff, you know, um...

883
00:48:19,667 --> 00:48:22,667
sheriffs of London,

884
00:48:22,709 --> 00:48:25,959
Keeper of... of... of the seas.

885
00:48:26,042 --> 00:48:28,417
Keeper of the seas in
the medieval period.

886
00:48:29,084 --> 00:48:31,584
And, like, that was the king.

887
00:48:31,584 --> 00:48:33,959
- I get what you're saying.
Yeah. No, totally. And I get-

888
00:48:34,042 --> 00:48:36,084
- You know, and I'm
actually proud of that.

889
00:48:36,084 --> 00:48:39,917
And there's more stuff
behind- besides.

890
00:48:39,959 --> 00:48:42,209
- 'It's really hard, just
listening and nodding to

891
00:48:42,292 --> 00:48:45,584
'Michael; taking in his
insufferable topics,

892
00:48:45,584 --> 00:48:48,292
'like his disproven
noble lineage.

893
00:48:48,334 --> 00:48:51,209
'For my own sanity,
I try and steer the conversation

894
00:48:51,292 --> 00:48:53,834
'towards things I actually
want to know about.'

895
00:48:53,959 --> 00:48:55,709
I've never taken
anyone to court myself.

896
00:48:55,709 --> 00:48:58,084
- Mm.
— You've taken, I think,

897
00:48:58,084 --> 00:48:59,917
more people to court
than I have, and you're -

898
00:48:59,959 --> 00:49:01,584
I think you're quite good -
from what I can tell,

899
00:49:01,584 --> 00:49:03,167
of looking through cases - like,

900
00:49:03,209 --> 00:49:06,792
you're quite formidable in
there and quite good at it.

901
00:49:06,834 --> 00:49:09,292
Is that a fair call?
- Uh, I'll only take...

902
00:49:10,542 --> 00:49:13,167
I only wanna get involved
in legal action as the last-

903
00:49:13,167 --> 00:49:16,584
as a last -
or close to last - resort,

904
00:49:16,584 --> 00:49:18,084
because you can be...

905
00:49:19,584 --> 00:49:22,959
represent yourself or your
case as best as possible.

906
00:49:24,209 --> 00:49:27,792
But you then...
It's the vagaries of,

907
00:49:27,792 --> 00:49:31,167
um, whoever's hearing the case.

908
00:49:32,167 --> 00:49:35,542
Um, it's amazing how much...

909
00:49:36,834 --> 00:49:39,334
things come into play
that really shouldn't.

910
00:49:42,209 --> 00:49:44,459
- No one knows this
more than the people

911
00:49:44,584 --> 00:49:47,334
who end up in court with him.

912
00:49:47,334 --> 00:49:51,084
They all talk about the
wild stories Organ spins,

913
00:49:51,167 --> 00:49:53,834
his defense to even the
simplest of allegations

914
00:49:53,917 --> 00:49:56,167
taking on fantastical
twists and turns.

915
00:49:57,542 --> 00:49:58,959
- He knows his shit,

916
00:50:00,834 --> 00:50:04,292
including how to filibuster
a pretty direct,

917
00:50:04,334 --> 00:50:08,209
'You stole that stuff from
me; can I have it back?'

918
00:50:08,209 --> 00:50:11,417
And turning that into an
international espionage...

919
00:50:11,417 --> 00:50:14,084
like, deep plot.

920
00:50:14,167 --> 00:50:17,584
He went into this big, long
tirade about how the Russians

921
00:50:17,584 --> 00:50:20,042
and Norwegians were fighting

922
00:50:20,084 --> 00:50:23,834
over the rights to drilling
in the North Sea.

923
00:50:23,917 --> 00:50:27,959
And that due to my family
contacts and studies,

924
00:50:27,959 --> 00:50:31,084
I was obviously spying on
behalf of - I don't know -

925
00:50:31,167 --> 00:50:33,959
one of these two great
world giants.

926
00:50:34,584 --> 00:50:36,959
It was, like,

927
00:50:36,959 --> 00:50:38,709
that took up most of the
hearing, to be honest.

928
00:50:38,709 --> 00:50:41,167
- Mm.
- And he was, like,

929
00:50:41,209 --> 00:50:44,042
pontificating like he was
in fucking Supreme Court.

930
00:50:45,292 --> 00:50:49,167
He just... And he just wasted
the court's time, basically.

931
00:50:49,167 --> 00:50:50,959
We can laugh at it now,
but in the moment,

932
00:50:51,042 --> 00:50:53,834
he's there to intimidate you.

933
00:50:53,834 --> 00:50:56,917
My friend who went
to court with me,

934
00:50:56,959 --> 00:50:59,917
he actually left
halfway through.

935
00:50:59,959 --> 00:51:02,417
He asked, 'Can I go?
I'm scared of this guy.'

936
00:51:02,459 --> 00:51:06,167
And I was, like, 'Yeah.
Well, totally. I understand.

937
00:51:06,167 --> 00:51:08,334
'He's scaring the
shit out of me too.'

938
00:51:11,084 --> 00:51:13,834
If you're in that
position, you can't be cowardly.

939
00:51:13,834 --> 00:51:15,334
You can't falter.

940
00:51:16,167 --> 00:51:18,417
- Mm.
- And you've got to be on...

941
00:51:18,459 --> 00:51:20,959
on your toes as
best as possible.

942
00:51:20,959 --> 00:51:23,584
I mean, especially if people
are lying through their...

943
00:51:23,584 --> 00:51:25,584
their... their teeth.

944
00:51:25,584 --> 00:51:28,084
- You'd be a good
lawyer in another life.

945
00:51:28,084 --> 00:51:31,792
Cos you're good at this stuff.
You were good in that tribunal.

946
00:51:31,834 --> 00:51:33,917
Like, I didn't-
you know, you were, uh...

947
00:51:33,959 --> 00:51:36,584
- If I'd represented
myself in the yacht case,

948
00:51:36,709 --> 00:51:38,042
I would never have
been convicted;

949
00:51:38,084 --> 00:51:40,167
it wouldn't have
got past base one.

950
00:51:40,167 --> 00:51:42,709
- Yeah. So if you
have your time again,

951
00:51:42,709 --> 00:51:44,292
yeah, you'd represent yourself?
- Absolutely.

952
00:51:44,334 --> 00:51:46,292
- Yeah. Yeah.

953
00:51:46,334 --> 00:51:49,334
I'm reminded of those emails
coming from Jillian's account

954
00:51:49,334 --> 00:51:53,167
years ago, the ones signed
off from a supposed lawyer,

955
00:51:53,167 --> 00:51:56,292
MDA Organ, the man
sitting in front of me now.

956
00:51:57,834 --> 00:52:00,792
But according to him, he never
wrote those legal threats.

957
00:52:00,834 --> 00:52:02,792
- You ran with that.

958
00:52:02,834 --> 00:52:05,459
I know who did it.

959
00:52:05,459 --> 00:52:08,709
Jillian knows who did it.
It wasn't me. It wasn't her.

960
00:52:08,709 --> 00:52:11,459
It wasn't done with our consent.

961
00:52:11,459 --> 00:52:14,834
Urn, you may have an
inkling who it is. But that...

962
00:52:14,834 --> 00:52:16,542
- No, I-
- I'll disclose later.

963
00:52:17,834 --> 00:52:20,334
- I'm just frustrated with him,

964
00:52:20,334 --> 00:52:22,584
frustrated with his process,

965
00:52:22,667 --> 00:52:25,709
frustrated with him
not giving anything.

966
00:52:25,709 --> 00:52:28,834
It's just a pointless
exercise in talking to him.

967
00:52:28,834 --> 00:52:30,584
Like, you can't crack
him. He, sort of,

968
00:52:30,584 --> 00:52:33,084
dodges around everything.

969
00:52:33,084 --> 00:52:36,584
Used a lot of time in assuming
I could out him in some way,

970
00:52:36,667 --> 00:52:38,792
or, like, show what
he's like. But it's...

971
00:52:38,834 --> 00:52:40,334
he's better than me.

972
00:52:43,917 --> 00:52:46,834
One thing he keeps
coming back to is me -

973
00:52:46,917 --> 00:52:48,959
me and the articles
I wrote about clamping

974
00:52:49,084 --> 00:52:51,167
when this whole thing started.

975
00:52:51,167 --> 00:52:52,834
The
more you reported it,

976
00:52:52,917 --> 00:52:54,834
the more people
were parking there.

977
00:52:54,834 --> 00:52:56,667
And they all -

978
00:52:56,709 --> 00:52:59,709
every one of them made
reference to your articles -

979
00:52:59,834 --> 00:53:02,042
every single one.

980
00:53:02,084 --> 00:53:04,209
- Whenever he
calls me about this,

981
00:53:04,209 --> 00:53:06,709
it's at least an
hour on the phone.

982
00:53:06,709 --> 00:53:09,167
- There was something
about those articles,

983
00:53:09,209 --> 00:53:11,084
and the way it went
through social media

984
00:53:11,084 --> 00:53:13,917
that it became
sporting for people.

985
00:53:13,959 --> 00:53:16,167
It got very, very strange.
- He's on mute.

986
00:53:16,209 --> 00:53:17,959
- But that's the way it happens.
- This is so boring.

987
00:53:17,959 --> 00:53:20,834
— Most people would think, 'Oh
God. I'm not gonna park there.'

988
00:53:20,834 --> 00:53:22,709
But it was literally -

989
00:53:22,709 --> 00:53:24,584
literally -

990
00:53:24,584 --> 00:53:27,042
and, um-

991
00:53:27,084 --> 00:53:29,417
- OK.
- I really wish we had more, um-

992
00:53:29,417 --> 00:53:31,709
- Yeah. He's on mute. Yeah.
- ...applications of polygraph,

993
00:53:31,709 --> 00:53:33,084
you know, the old
lying detectors here.

994
00:53:33,084 --> 00:53:36,084
- I'm trying to think where to
go. Work him up more?

995
00:53:37,084 --> 00:53:38,209
- ...because I actually
have a great faith.

996
00:53:38,209 --> 00:53:40,167
- Shall we see how
long he talks for?

997
00:53:40,209 --> 00:53:43,917
- In the last- As time
went through with that,

998
00:53:43,959 --> 00:53:46,584
- having to resort to clamping-
- I'll go meet him soon.

999
00:53:46,584 --> 00:53:48,209
...we used to let
a lot of people off.

1000
00:53:48,292 --> 00:53:49,584
- This is such a weird

1001
00:53:49,584 --> 00:53:51,959
conversation.
- It was the recidivist..

1002
00:53:51,959 --> 00:53:55,167
- And then the next
time I see him, I get this.

1003
00:53:55,167 --> 00:53:57,584
- OK, well. Let's walk out.
- OK. Oh!

1004
00:53:57,584 --> 00:53:59,459
Shit.

1005
00:53:59,542 --> 00:54:02,042
God.

1006
00:54:02,084 --> 00:54:04,584
How dare
you, sir!

1007
00:54:04,584 --> 00:54:07,834
- You're an absolute
maniac, Michael.

1008
00:54:07,834 --> 00:54:09,959
You're an absolute maniac.

1009
00:54:09,959 --> 00:54:12,584
- It's destabilizing,

1010
00:54:12,584 --> 00:54:15,959
as I don't know what version
of Michael I'm going to get.

1011
00:54:17,209 --> 00:54:19,334
- The three of us
were in our pyjamas...

1012
00:54:19,417 --> 00:54:21,584
and we were arguing
over this receipt, and, um,

1013
00:54:21,667 --> 00:54:23,709
he followed me
down to my bedroom.

1014
00:54:23,709 --> 00:54:25,959
And he punched me
in the head six times.

1015
00:54:27,709 --> 00:54:30,959
So, yeah. I ended up leaving -
as most flatmates -

1016
00:54:30,959 --> 00:54:32,334
with a police phone call.

1017
00:54:33,834 --> 00:54:36,167
So, in my case, he, apparently,

1018
00:54:36,209 --> 00:54:38,542
went straight down
to the bathroom,

1019
00:54:38,584 --> 00:54:40,917
and there was not a mark on
him. One of the flatmates

1020
00:54:40,959 --> 00:54:43,959
even told the police that
he came out of the bathroom,

1021
00:54:44,042 --> 00:54:45,959
and suddenly had scratches on
his face. He'd actually gone to

1022
00:54:45,959 --> 00:54:48,459
the bathroom and
scratched his own face,

1023
00:54:48,459 --> 00:54:50,459
to say to the police
that I had assaulted him.

1024
00:54:50,542 --> 00:54:54,042
But at that time,
I had blatantly chewed nails

1025
00:54:54,084 --> 00:54:55,709
from the anxiety living
with him. And I said,

1026
00:54:55,792 --> 00:54:57,584
'It's not fricking possible.'

1027
00:54:59,209 --> 00:55:01,417
And you're moving house
at 3 o'clock in the morning,

1028
00:55:01,417 --> 00:55:03,584
get everything out on your
trailer and everything.

1029
00:55:03,584 --> 00:55:05,584
The next-door neighbour,
who's a registered teacher,

1030
00:55:05,584 --> 00:55:07,209
comes out in her dressing
gown, says, 'Jesus Christ.

1031
00:55:07,334 --> 00:55:09,084
'When are they
gonna put him away?'

1032
00:55:09,167 --> 00:55:10,709
And you're like, 'I know.'

1033
00:55:14,334 --> 00:55:17,792
- Michael's clearly capable
of physical violence,

1034
00:55:17,834 --> 00:55:20,584
and yet he simply denies it all.

1035
00:55:20,667 --> 00:55:23,917
There is not one
piece of footage substantiating

1036
00:55:23,959 --> 00:55:26,959
any allegation of threats or-

1037
00:55:27,084 --> 00:55:29,167
or a threatening
behaviour from me.

1038
00:55:29,209 --> 00:55:31,709
There is nil.

1039
00:55:31,709 --> 00:55:34,584
- I've seen you driving
a van and trapping...

1040
00:55:37,084 --> 00:55:39,334
...young females
in that car park.

1041
00:55:39,334 --> 00:55:41,792
It's extremely threatening.

1042
00:55:41,834 --> 00:55:45,167
- The- No, it's not. The vehicle
had a wheel clamp on it.

1043
00:55:45,209 --> 00:55:48,167
- Yeah, you've been extremely
threatening to people.

1044
00:55:48,209 --> 00:55:50,709
And I've seen the video,
and I've heard the stories.

1045
00:55:50,709 --> 00:55:54,834
And I'm gonna believe 20 people
that talk to me about

1046
00:55:54,834 --> 00:55:58,209
their interactions they had,
over what you're telling me.

1047
00:55:58,292 --> 00:56:01,959
I don't know why I would
believe you over them.

1048
00:56:01,959 --> 00:56:05,334
- You have not seen any footage
of me threatening anyone,

1049
00:56:05,459 --> 00:56:09,167
because it never happened. So
that's how I know you are lying,

1050
00:56:09,167 --> 00:56:11,834
because it never happened.
Ipso facto,

1051
00:56:11,834 --> 00:56:14,584
there cannot be footage
of it. Never happened.

1052
00:56:14,584 --> 00:56:17,417
- I'm talking about
your mannerisms

1053
00:56:17,459 --> 00:56:19,584
and you trapping people
in with your van.

1054
00:56:19,584 --> 00:56:22,584
- Don't talk over me
please, David. David!

1055
00:56:22,667 --> 00:56:25,792
If you wanna get some copy,
which you're getting now,

1056
00:56:25,792 --> 00:56:27,792
be grateful for it and listen
to what I'm telling you,

1057
00:56:27,792 --> 00:56:29,334
because it's fact.

1058
00:56:29,334 --> 00:56:31,334
Whatever the current
version of reality is

1059
00:56:31,417 --> 00:56:33,834
spilling out of his mouth...

1060
00:56:33,834 --> 00:56:36,917
that is the current
reality that he lives in,

1061
00:56:36,959 --> 00:56:38,792
and he expects us to all accept.

1062
00:56:40,542 --> 00:56:41,959
And pushing back
against that reality

1063
00:56:42,042 --> 00:56:43,709
doesn't really do that much,

1064
00:56:43,709 --> 00:56:46,584
because it's like
you're not even there.

1065
00:56:46,584 --> 00:56:48,209
It's fucked. Like, it's...

1066
00:56:51,084 --> 00:56:54,209
Yeah, I feel wound up by him,
every dose I have of him.

1067
00:56:54,334 --> 00:56:56,917
Which is about, say,
three hours at a time.

1068
00:56:58,792 --> 00:57:02,084
Living with him, like Simon
has, and like Paul did

1069
00:57:02,167 --> 00:57:04,167
and like Jillian has for a very
long time, I don't even...

1070
00:57:04,167 --> 00:57:05,959
I couldn't even imagine that.

1071
00:57:10,584 --> 00:57:12,709
No. Do you
know where everything is?

1072
00:57:16,917 --> 00:57:19,709
- Yeah. We do.

1073
00:57:27,959 --> 00:57:30,584
- Oh, really?
- One of those people...

1074
00:57:30,667 --> 00:57:33,834
I had really objected to,

1075
00:57:33,917 --> 00:57:36,792
because he had said in forum
that Jesus - this is verbatim -

1076
00:57:37,792 --> 00:57:40,917
Jesus Christ was a sex
pest with 12 boyfriends.

1077
00:57:42,292 --> 00:57:43,459
Do you know who
I'm talking about?

1078
00:57:43,542 --> 00:57:44,834
- No. I don't, no.

1079
00:57:44,917 --> 00:57:48,584
- If he'd said Mohammed...
and his disciples...

1080
00:57:48,667 --> 00:57:50,709
- Yeah. I would actually prefer
if you didn't actually make

1081
00:57:50,792 --> 00:57:52,334
that- uh, yeah, no.
- Mm. Yes. I know.

1082
00:57:52,334 --> 00:57:53,834
- Just, Jillian.
I mean, honestly.

1083
00:57:53,834 --> 00:57:55,584
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
<i>—</i> But he might have been. Well,

1084
00:57:55,667 --> 00:57:56,959
the Islamic people
wouldn't put up with it.

1085
00:57:56,959 --> 00:57:58,709
- Just, you know,
zip it. Because -

1086
00:57:58,709 --> 00:58:00,209
I'll just give you
that as advice -

1087
00:58:00,292 --> 00:58:01,834
You just don't wanna go there.
- Mm. I know, but, I mean-

1088
00:58:01,917 --> 00:58:03,334
- So no, no. I'm just
saying to you, don't.

1089
00:58:03,334 --> 00:58:05,084
For your own personal safety.
- Mm.

1090
00:58:05,084 --> 00:58:06,584
- As you're recording this,

1091
00:58:06,667 --> 00:58:08,459
then make sure
that that's exempt,

1092
00:58:08,459 --> 00:58:10,959
cos I don't want that
kind of thing being said.

1093
00:58:11,084 --> 00:58:12,709
Cos it'll take the wrong person-

1094
00:58:12,792 --> 00:58:14,709
- Mm.
- ...and you'll end up...

1095
00:58:14,792 --> 00:58:17,792
You just don't wanna
go there, OK?

1096
00:58:17,792 --> 00:58:19,709
Because there are people
out there who could manipulate

1097
00:58:19,709 --> 00:58:20,917
that comment that you just made.

1098
00:58:20,959 --> 00:58:23,584
- Mm.
- Just trust me.

1099
00:58:23,667 --> 00:58:25,084
Don't even make
any reference to it.

1100
00:58:25,084 --> 00:58:27,834
- Mm.

1101
00:58:27,917 --> 00:58:30,084
- You're not even meant to say
the name without a certain

1102
00:58:30,084 --> 00:58:32,084
preamble.
- Well...

1103
00:58:32,167 --> 00:58:33,834
- OK? Which you didn't do. And
you'll get someone potentially-

1104
00:58:33,834 --> 00:58:35,042
- It's what happens
in Paris or France.

1105
00:58:35,084 --> 00:58:37,334
- ...who'll object to that.
No, no, no, no. Don't.

1106
00:58:37,334 --> 00:58:38,709
In the context of what
we're talking about. Please.

1107
00:58:38,709 --> 00:58:41,417
- Mm.
- You know, that -

1108
00:58:41,459 --> 00:58:43,084
you just don't wanna go there.

1109
00:58:46,709 --> 00:58:48,334
- Cos, yeah, he's impossible.

1110
00:58:48,334 --> 00:58:50,542
Like, he's absolutely
impossible.

1111
00:58:52,667 --> 00:58:54,334
Um...

1112
00:58:59,834 --> 00:59:01,709
and he'll keep being fine. Like,

1113
00:59:01,709 --> 00:59:03,584
he'll keep drifting
through life doing this,

1114
00:59:03,584 --> 00:59:06,209
and it kind of works for him.

1115
00:59:06,292 --> 00:59:10,167
He's got more money than I have.
He's done pretty well.

1116
00:59:12,584 --> 00:59:14,292
So yeah. That'll do for the day.

1117
00:59:18,959 --> 00:59:22,792
So, it's 12.20 am.

1118
00:59:22,834 --> 00:59:26,334
And I'm lying awake
thinking about Michael Organ.

1119
00:59:26,334 --> 00:59:27,834
Fucking Michael Organ.

1120
00:59:30,042 --> 00:59:32,334
There's a gap in my blinds,

1121
00:59:32,334 --> 00:59:34,584
and I keep thinking
he's gonna be, um...

1122
00:59:36,209 --> 00:59:37,959
like, when I open my eyes,

1123
00:59:38,042 --> 00:59:40,709
I'll see him staring back
at me through the gap.

1124
00:59:40,709 --> 00:59:42,709
I know Michael had my key.

1125
00:59:42,709 --> 00:59:45,084
And I know somebody crept around

1126
00:59:45,167 --> 00:59:48,709
to take those signs from
the back of my house.

1127
00:59:48,709 --> 00:59:52,084
I know he's capable
of stuff like this...

1128
00:59:52,084 --> 00:59:55,917
as I find more and more cases
of people Michael's gone after.

1129
00:59:57,584 --> 01:00:00,084
There's so much.

1130
01:00:00,167 --> 01:00:01,459
Gives me a headache just
thinking about the number of

1131
01:00:01,542 --> 01:00:04,167
things to chase.

1132
01:00:04,209 --> 01:00:05,959
It's like everyone you talk to
mentions about five other

1133
01:00:05,959 --> 01:00:08,167
people's names
and says...

1134
01:00:10,167 --> 01:00:12,542
you have to talk to them.
And it's, like...

1135
01:00:12,584 --> 01:00:16,167
It's, like, get anxiety
just thinking about it.

1136
01:00:33,959 --> 01:00:36,959
- Hey, Michael. I'm good.
I'm good. How are you doing?

1137
01:00:44,042 --> 01:00:47,459
- Spending time with Michael
is a paradox; on one hand,

1138
01:00:47,542 --> 01:00:50,167
it's intriguing and fascinating.

1139
01:00:50,167 --> 01:00:53,584
But at the same time his stories
are so complex and impenetrable,

1140
01:00:53,667 --> 01:00:55,709
I feel like I'm getting
a lobotomy.

1141
01:00:57,292 --> 01:01:01,084
Everyone I've met talks about
this side to him - he wears you

1142
01:01:01,167 --> 01:01:05,084
down by talking for hours on
end about absolutely nothing.

1143
01:01:05,167 --> 01:01:06,542
...and the people
would be quite capable...

1144
01:01:06,542 --> 01:01:09,209
-Absolutely nothing.

1145
01:01:09,292 --> 01:01:12,959
...of taking probably
a successful action against me for

1146
01:01:12,959 --> 01:01:15,709
asserting them. But in this
case, if I was to assert them,

1147
01:01:15,709 --> 01:01:18,542
I've got proof.
And some of these things...

1148
01:01:18,584 --> 01:01:21,334
- You pay a soul tax every
minute you spend with

1149
01:01:21,334 --> 01:01:24,417
Michael Organ. And when those
minutes turn into days and

1150
01:01:24,459 --> 01:01:26,584
weeks, months and years...

1151
01:01:26,667 --> 01:01:28,167
well, that soul tax adds up.

1152
01:01:30,167 --> 01:01:31,584
- And a bottle. Thank you.

1153
01:01:31,667 --> 01:01:34,792
- As a film-maker, I'm used
to finding amazing subjects,

1154
01:01:34,834 --> 01:01:37,459
but this is the opposite.
Michael Organ is a black hole,

1155
01:01:37,584 --> 01:01:38,834
and I've fallen in.

1156
01:01:39,792 --> 01:01:41,959
Cos I- I- like, why...?
He's- He's...

1157
01:01:52,167 --> 01:01:53,959
- He's what?
- Well, I just-

1158
01:01:54,042 --> 01:01:56,542
I don't know what to do
with him. He's like a void.

1159
01:01:56,584 --> 01:01:59,209
- Like...
- Like, he, uh...

1160
01:02:00,709 --> 01:02:02,084
And I don't know
how to express this.

1161
01:02:02,167 --> 01:02:04,834
Like, I- I don't know
how to... Like, I don't know-

1162
01:02:04,917 --> 01:02:07,167
I don't quite understand why
he winds me up so much.

1163
01:02:07,167 --> 01:02:09,584
Like, I can spend time with,
like, a lot of dimwits, and,

1164
01:02:09,667 --> 01:02:11,084
like, a lot of people that
are boring, but it's, like,

1165
01:02:11,084 --> 01:02:13,334
I can't be in the room
with him.

1166
01:02:16,334 --> 01:02:18,792
I'm trapped. I-
It's a weird situation for me,

1167
01:02:18,834 --> 01:02:21,334
cos I'm trapped with him.
Like, if- if I was in-

1168
01:02:21,334 --> 01:02:24,917
in a friendship with him or
something, or he was a flatmate,

1169
01:02:24,959 --> 01:02:25,709
like these other people
who have encountered him,

1170
01:02:25,792 --> 01:02:27,959
I'd just leave...
- Yeah.

1171
01:02:28,042 --> 01:02:31,709
- ...and go on with my life. But
I'm literally trapped with him.

1172
01:02:31,709 --> 01:02:33,834
Cos I have to-
- You just- No, you can't.

1173
01:02:34,709 --> 01:02:36,917
- Cos I have to
make a film, right?

1174
01:02:36,959 --> 01:02:38,292
- Yep.
- So there's no out.

1175
01:02:40,709 --> 01:02:42,334
Except to spend
more time with him,

1176
01:02:42,334 --> 01:02:44,417
until something
magically happens.

1177
01:02:47,084 --> 01:02:48,792
- YEP-

1178
01:02:53,084 --> 01:02:56,209
- Well, it's- I feel stupid
being so wound up about it.

1179
01:02:58,459 --> 01:02:59,959
But it's just, like...

1180
01:03:01,709 --> 01:03:03,334
It's what, um...

1181
01:03:05,334 --> 01:03:07,792
It's like... A few people have
talked to me about this.

1182
01:03:07,792 --> 01:03:09,209
They're, like, you think
it's gonna be interesting,

1183
01:03:09,209 --> 01:03:12,959
but it's just, like, so boring,
it drives you insane.

1184
01:03:12,959 --> 01:03:15,959
And it's like, I've kind
of fucked up in...

1185
01:03:16,084 --> 01:03:18,209
like, I feel like
I fucked up in, like,

1186
01:03:18,292 --> 01:03:21,834
pitching the film in the first
place, because it's so...

1187
01:03:26,167 --> 01:03:28,209
like, it's so obvious there's
nothing there. It's, like,

1188
01:03:28,209 --> 01:03:31,334
he's a fuckwit who bores people
to death until they, like,

1189
01:03:31,334 --> 01:03:32,834
jump off a building.

1190
01:03:34,667 --> 01:03:37,959
But now I'm in his world,
he just keeps calling me.

1191
01:03:37,959 --> 01:03:40,292
And he's back to
the yacht case -

1192
01:03:40,292 --> 01:03:44,084
the one big court case
he's lost, his downfall.

1193
01:03:44,084 --> 01:03:47,959
I want, at some
stage, to get that, um,

1194
01:03:47,959 --> 01:03:50,792
the convictions pertaining
to the yacht overturned.

1195
01:03:50,834 --> 01:03:52,042
Now, I'll tell you
this for a fact -

1196
01:03:52,084 --> 01:03:54,959
if I had represented
myself in that,

1197
01:03:54,959 --> 01:03:56,417
- OK...
- Who was your lawyer in that,

1198
01:03:56,459 --> 01:03:58,084
um, case again?

1199
01:03:59,584 --> 01:04:02,334
- Um...

1200
01:04:10,417 --> 01:04:11,959
- YEP-

1201
01:04:11,959 --> 01:04:14,167
- So, has he got
some sort of disorder,

1202
01:04:14,209 --> 01:04:16,584
or is he just a bit
out there, or...?

1203
01:04:16,584 --> 01:04:18,959
What do you think his deal is?

1204
01:04:18,959 --> 01:04:20,459
Cos I've been spending
a lot of time with him,

1205
01:04:20,542 --> 01:04:24,334
and I cannot make heads or tails
of what's going on in his brain.

1206
01:04:42,084 --> 01:04:43,709
But, uh...

1207
01:05:18,084 --> 01:05:20,667
- So Michael's brother
is a real lawyer,

1208
01:05:20,667 --> 01:05:23,334
Dean Organ.

1209
01:05:23,334 --> 01:05:25,834
I'd actually contacted him
when I was trying to find

1210
01:05:25,917 --> 01:05:28,167
the fake lawyer -
the mysterious MDA Organ.

1211
01:05:30,084 --> 01:05:32,459
Back then, Dean hadn't
been forthcoming.

1212
01:05:35,584 --> 01:05:37,834
And all he said was
something like,

1213
01:05:37,834 --> 01:05:40,709
'Don't know anything
about this.'

1214
01:05:40,709 --> 01:05:42,959
It would have been
nice if he'd said...

1215
01:05:42,959 --> 01:05:44,542
'That's my brother.'

1216
01:05:45,542 --> 01:05:47,709
Now I know he's family,

1217
01:05:47,709 --> 01:05:49,917
maybe he can provide
some insight.

1218
01:05:49,959 --> 01:05:52,167
I drive to his office,

1219
01:05:52,209 --> 01:05:54,209
which appears to
be just his house.

1220
01:05:59,959 --> 01:06:02,709
- Oh, hey, Dean. I'm David.

1221
01:06:02,709 --> 01:06:04,792
- Yeah.

1222
01:06:06,959 --> 01:06:09,959
- OK, I can... I've...

1223
01:06:09,959 --> 01:06:11,792
been looking into your brother,
Michael, for some time...

1224
01:06:16,209 --> 01:06:18,042
- Yeah, no. I understood.
Yeah, understood.

1225
01:06:20,292 --> 01:06:21,709
- Yeah. I definitely don't
wanna create any angst.

1226
01:06:23,209 --> 01:06:23,792
- Yeah.

1227
01:06:25,584 --> 01:06:26,792
- No, and I certainly
don't mean-

1228
01:06:29,042 --> 01:06:32,459
- No, no. Cos what I'm trying
to do is try and figure out...

1229
01:06:34,334 --> 01:06:36,959
- I'm trying to learn about who
Michael is, because the effect-

1230
01:06:36,959 --> 01:06:38,709
- ...Michael's had on people

1231
01:06:38,709 --> 01:06:40,167
over the years is
what I'm interested in.

1232
01:06:42,584 --> 01:06:43,834
- OK.

1233
01:06:48,084 --> 01:06:48,917
- Yeah, I'm with you.

1234
01:06:51,584 --> 01:06:53,417
- Well, when I emailed
you as a journalist -

1235
01:06:53,459 --> 01:06:56,167
I guess my issue was I emailed
you saying, you know,

1236
01:06:56,209 --> 01:06:58,959
there's an Organ that's saying
he's a lawyer; is this you?

1237
01:06:59,084 --> 01:07:01,417
And I guess, what would
be so helpful at that point,

1238
01:07:01,459 --> 01:07:03,167
when I'm looking into something,
is for you to go,

1239
01:07:03,209 --> 01:07:05,292
'It's not me,
but it's my brother,

1240
01:07:07,459 --> 01:07:09,209
'and maybe just be wary,'
or something, I don't know.

1241
01:07:09,209 --> 01:07:11,167
It was just...

1242
01:07:29,917 --> 01:07:31,584
- Hello.
- Oh, hey. Is that Albert?

1243
01:07:33,084 --> 01:07:34,584
- Speaking.
- Oh, hey. It's-

1244
01:07:34,709 --> 01:07:36,334
My name's David Farrier.

1245
01:07:36,417 --> 01:07:39,084
I'm a documentary film-maker
based in New Zealand.

1246
01:07:39,084 --> 01:07:40,959
How are you?
- Fine, thank you.

1247
01:07:41,792 --> 01:07:43,334
- Good. Hey, look, it's a...

1248
01:07:43,334 --> 01:07:45,959
a bit of an obscure phone call
to get out of the blue, but

1249
01:07:45,959 --> 01:07:47,959
I've... I'm... I'm making a

1250
01:07:47,959 --> 01:07:50,334
documentary about Michael Organ.

1251
01:07:51,959 --> 01:07:54,167
- Ah, that'll do, thank you.

1252
01:07:54,167 --> 01:07:57,084
- You don't -
I'm just trying to...

1253
01:07:57,167 --> 01:07:59,334
I'm just trying to figure-
- No, thank you, um, I know.

1254
01:07:59,334 --> 01:08:02,584
I know your name,
and I know your reputation.

1255
01:08:02,584 --> 01:08:06,209
And I'll leave it at that. Don't
phone here again. Thank you.

1256
01:08:06,292 --> 01:08:08,792
- I just wanna try and figure
out why your son is doing what

1257
01:08:08,834 --> 01:08:10,459
he's doing.

1258
01:08:12,292 --> 01:08:15,042
All right. I guess that's
a 'no' from the parents.

1259
01:08:16,167 --> 01:08:19,167
It's about his brother Michael.
It's a weird one.

1260
01:08:19,292 --> 01:08:21,167
I'm the guy that was,
um... I'm David.

1261
01:08:21,167 --> 01:08:22,917
- I was writing about him a

1262
01:08:22,917 --> 01:08:24,375
little bit. But I-
- Yeah. I don't- Look,

1263
01:08:26,167 --> 01:08:28,375
- No, no. And that's
totally valid and fair.

1264
01:08:28,375 --> 01:08:31,000
And I just wanted to reach out-

1265
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,250
- Yeah, she just felt...
It didn't feel... She was...

1266
01:08:50,292 --> 01:08:52,792
I think she was
different to Dean.

1267
01:08:52,792 --> 01:08:55,000
She was more, like,
just pained by it.

1268
01:08:55,042 --> 01:08:56,542
Like, she was just, like,
'Oh, make this go away,'

1269
01:08:56,542 --> 01:08:58,167
was kind of her vibe.

1270
01:08:58,250 --> 01:09:01,542
And not necessarily to protect
the family, but just, like,

1271
01:09:01,542 --> 01:09:03,750
kind of got the vibe that
Michael had been a real

1272
01:09:03,792 --> 01:09:05,542
fucking arsehole or something.

1273
01:09:06,875 --> 01:09:09,292
She just felt a bit
more damaged.

1274
01:09:09,375 --> 01:09:12,375
She didn't feel like
she was being devious.

1275
01:09:12,417 --> 01:09:14,125
Um...

1276
01:09:15,750 --> 01:09:19,417
like, Dean was just straight-up
making me the bad guy -

1277
01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:21,292
there was none of that from her.
She was just, like, 'I think,

1278
01:09:21,375 --> 01:09:22,375
'like, oh, this is just awful.
You should leave it.'

1279
01:09:27,042 --> 01:09:28,792
Yeah.

1280
01:09:34,250 --> 01:09:37,292
David, I can't talk
now. Can you hear me?

1281
01:09:39,917 --> 01:09:42,292
Can you hear me?
- I can. I can hear you.

1282
01:09:42,375 --> 01:09:46,167
- It's a council-related
meeting, so we can't talk.

1283
01:09:46,167 --> 01:09:48,500
- Oh. Oh.
- So call back after 2.

1284
01:09:48,542 --> 01:09:50,250
- OK. I'll call
you back after 2.

1285
01:09:52,500 --> 01:09:55,167
Um, so if Michael is in
a council meeting till 2,

1286
01:09:56,125 --> 01:09:58,042
that means Jillian might
be home on her own.

1287
01:09:58,125 --> 01:10:01,417
So I think it's worth
just going over and...

1288
01:10:01,500 --> 01:10:03,292
seeing if I can talk to her
without Michael there,

1289
01:10:03,375 --> 01:10:05,292
which would be... like, a gift.

1290
01:10:07,875 --> 01:10:09,375
I think that's it.

1291
01:10:10,375 --> 01:10:11,875
Is that the front door?

1292
01:10:14,250 --> 01:10:15,875
I guess it is.

1293
01:10:17,542 --> 01:10:19,250
Hello!

1294
01:10:28,375 --> 01:10:29,792
I wonder if there's any...

1295
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:39,042
No one home.

1296
01:10:42,542 --> 01:10:44,125
Hey, Michael.

1297
01:10:45,417 --> 01:10:48,167
- Hey, um, you might
wanna film me doing this.

1298
01:10:48,167 --> 01:10:50,167
I'm just serving you with that.
- OK.

1299
01:10:50,167 --> 01:10:52,375
- OK.
- Because I didn't trust you

1300
01:10:52,417 --> 01:10:56,167
before, I was going to serve you
at the last meeting. You've...

1301
01:10:56,250 --> 01:10:57,167
- OK. Oh, so this is a
trespass notice for your house.

1302
01:10:57,167 --> 01:10:58,542
- I'll explain why to you.

1303
01:11:00,417 --> 01:11:01,667
OK?

1304
01:11:01,667 --> 01:11:02,500
- Wanted to go and
catch up with Jillian.

1305
01:11:02,542 --> 01:11:05,000
-You...

1306
01:11:05,042 --> 01:11:06,542
— But no one was
home, so we left.

1307
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:09,750
- You're actually
crossing the line.

1308
01:11:09,792 --> 01:11:12,375
Your excuses are that you're

1309
01:11:12,375 --> 01:11:14,167
giving us the right to reply.

1310
01:11:15,250 --> 01:11:17,917
My reply to you is you
can get fucked. OK?

1311
01:11:19,167 --> 01:11:20,917
Actually, you are quite-
- You know you know we've been

1312
01:11:20,917 --> 01:11:23,917
filming this
documentary with you.

1313
01:11:23,917 --> 01:11:26,292
- You are quite prepared-
- And you've been very hot and

1314
01:11:26,292 --> 01:11:29,417
cold on it.
- You are quite prepared-

1315
01:11:29,417 --> 01:11:32,167
- And this is the cold bit.
- You are quite prepared to

1316
01:11:32,250 --> 01:11:33,792
override...

1317
01:11:34,792 --> 01:11:37,417
law...

1318
01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:41,417
by committing conversion.
As the court said...

1319
01:11:41,500 --> 01:11:44,375
- I find it really had to trust
anything you tell me, because

1320
01:11:44,375 --> 01:11:46,542
even the simplest thing-
- I'm not interested, David,

1321
01:11:46,542 --> 01:11:49,042
because you're not
interested in the truth.

1322
01:11:49,125 --> 01:11:50,417
It's shown because of the shit
that you misled Parliament with.

1323
01:11:50,500 --> 01:11:51,917
-I am.

1324
01:11:53,167 --> 01:11:55,292
I didn't mislead Parliament.
— You misled Parliament.

1325
01:11:55,292 --> 01:11:59,292
- I've got you on camera saying
that you were charging $760,

1326
01:11:59,375 --> 01:12:02,542
uh, to remove a clamp. I've got
footage of you saying that.

1327
01:12:02,542 --> 01:12:04,625
You've been continuously telling
me that you never said it -

1328
01:12:04,625 --> 01:12:06,375
I've got it.
- It wasn't for a clamp;

1329
01:12:06,417 --> 01:12:08,792
it was for two clamps.

1330
01:12:08,792 --> 01:12:10,167
- OK, it was for two clamps;
not one clamp - for two.

1331
01:12:10,250 --> 01:12:12,542
- Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- Oh, OK.

1332
01:12:12,542 --> 01:12:14,375
It's like, I know you stole that
yacht, like I know those-

1333
01:12:14,417 --> 01:12:16,542
- Well, I didn't.
- ...signatures were forged,

1334
01:12:16,542 --> 01:12:18,292
and I know you removed the
yacht - like, that's a fact.

1335
01:12:18,375 --> 01:12:21,042
- Pardon?
- Like, you stole that yacht -

1336
01:12:21,042 --> 01:12:23,250
like, that's just that a fact,

1337
01:12:23,292 --> 01:12:24,750
and so when you're
continuously calling me-

1338
01:12:24,792 --> 01:12:26,292
- No, I didn't, David.

1339
01:12:27,542 --> 01:12:29,667
- It was you, Michael.
- It wasn't.

1340
01:12:29,750 --> 01:12:32,250
- It was you. Come on.
- You can say it as much as...

1341
01:12:32,292 --> 01:12:34,417
as you like - it's supposition,
and it's false.

1342
01:12:34,417 --> 01:12:37,417
- That's all you're doing.
I think you go through life

1343
01:12:37,417 --> 01:12:39,292
creating your own version
of reality continuously.

1344
01:12:39,292 --> 01:12:42,625
- No. Unless you are
calling a Jillian a liar.

1345
01:12:42,625 --> 01:12:45,292
Jillian has stated that-
- I'm talking about you.

1346
01:12:45,292 --> 01:12:47,917
Before we part ways, do you
wanna have a coffee, with just-

1347
01:12:47,917 --> 01:12:49,750
a casual coffee and
a relax before we take off?

1348
01:12:49,792 --> 01:12:51,667
- Ah, yeah. That's fine.

1349
01:12:51,667 --> 01:12:53,292
That's fine.

1350
01:12:54,417 --> 01:12:56,542
- Let's just have a nice coffee.

1351
01:12:56,542 --> 01:12:58,542
What sort of coffee
would you like?

1352
01:13:01,375 --> 01:13:03,625
- Probably an Irish
one after this, but-

1353
01:13:03,625 --> 01:13:06,500
Excuse me, just for a moment.

1354
01:13:06,500 --> 01:13:09,667
- No, get in there.
- Hello. Michael speaking.

1355
01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:11,917
- How did you meet Michael?
- Pardon?

1356
01:13:11,917 --> 01:13:13,250
- How did you meet Michael?
- Yes.

1357
01:13:13,292 --> 01:13:15,542
- Oh, Michael was a, um,

1358
01:13:15,542 --> 01:13:18,375
customer, a client, who came in

1359
01:13:18,417 --> 01:13:20,375
to buy antiques in
the... in the store.

1360
01:13:20,375 --> 01:13:22,375
- Right.
- Ah, sorry.

1361
01:13:22,375 --> 01:13:25,042
- Sorry-I.

1362
01:13:25,042 --> 01:13:28,667
Well, we're just- Could we come
down and see you? Is that OK?

1363
01:13:28,750 --> 01:13:30,750
- What was your
first impression?

1364
01:13:30,792 --> 01:13:32,250
- Oh, that he was
very knowledgeable.

1365
01:13:32,292 --> 01:13:34,417
- OK. Well, that's good.
Thank you.

1366
01:13:35,250 --> 01:13:37,125
- Very informed buyer.

1367
01:13:37,167 --> 01:13:38,250
- Mm.
- Mm.

1368
01:13:38,292 --> 01:13:41,125
Did you ever lie, Michael,
about anything?

1369
01:13:41,167 --> 01:13:42,750
- That, um...

1370
01:13:46,167 --> 01:13:48,792
is not relevant.
Nor is it your business.

1371
01:13:48,875 --> 01:13:51,292
- It's pretty relevant.
- I would say that that

1372
01:13:51,292 --> 01:13:53,292
would be a no.
- No, it was pretty relevant.

1373
01:13:53,292 --> 01:13:55,042
You're calling
other people liars a lot.

1374
01:13:55,125 --> 01:13:57,417
You've called me a liar, called
a lot of other people liars.

1375
01:13:57,417 --> 01:13:59,417
- No, I said you've been
dishonest, and that you've-

1376
01:13:59,500 --> 01:14:01,750
- Oh Christ.
- ...hidden the truth from

1377
01:14:01,750 --> 01:14:03,917
people.
- Yeah.

1378
01:14:03,917 --> 01:14:06,667
Yeah, I don't know. It's just...

1379
01:14:06,667 --> 01:14:10,375
I just- You accuse a lot of
other people of a lot of things;

1380
01:14:10,375 --> 01:14:11,917
that's all.
- Oh, if someone testifies

1381
01:14:11,917 --> 01:14:14,417
falsely in court,
then they're a bloody liar.

1382
01:14:14,500 --> 01:14:17,917
- Right. But you've never lied?
- And it's evil.

1383
01:14:17,917 --> 01:14:19,917
- In what context?
- Just in life, you know.

1384
01:14:20,792 --> 01:14:22,750
- As I said to you,
I'm not answering that;

1385
01:14:22,750 --> 01:14:24,792
it's none of...
of your business.

1386
01:14:24,792 --> 01:14:28,292
- If I'm totally honest
with you, Michael...

1387
01:14:28,375 --> 01:14:30,375
- You're sounding like
you're a little bit piqued.

1388
01:14:30,375 --> 01:14:31,875
- I find it, like...

1389
01:14:33,042 --> 01:14:35,167
It- It's frustrating...

1390
01:14:35,167 --> 01:14:37,417
spending all this time with you,

1391
01:14:37,417 --> 01:14:39,417
because you do,

1392
01:14:39,417 --> 01:14:42,500
continuously...

1393
01:14:42,542 --> 01:14:46,042
lie... about everything.

1394
01:14:46,125 --> 01:14:48,292
- No.
- And I mean everything.

1395
01:14:48,292 --> 01:14:51,917
I haven't been around
someone like you before,

1396
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,750
that does continuously lie.
- What are you wanting me to do?

1397
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:55,875
Are you wanting me
to say I stole a yacht,

1398
01:14:55,917 --> 01:14:58,375
when I didn't steal a yacht?

1399
01:14:58,417 --> 01:15:01,542
- Is there anything else,
Jillian, you wanted to add,

1400
01:15:01,542 --> 01:15:03,167
to any of this discussion?
— Well, I can't think, really.

1401
01:15:03,167 --> 01:15:05,917
- Well, could
I ever talk to you,

1402
01:15:05,917 --> 01:15:09,042
just on your own, just to get
your take on everything?

1403
01:15:10,417 --> 01:15:12,417
- Well, not at the
moment. I can't...

1404
01:15:16,292 --> 01:15:18,375
- Cos I feel I've
talked to Michael a lot,

1405
01:15:18,417 --> 01:15:21,042
but I'd love to talk to
you at some point, um...

1406
01:15:24,542 --> 01:15:26,125
if you're open to that.

1407
01:15:29,792 --> 01:15:32,375
- Well, not at the moment. Not
today. It's all too much today.

1408
01:15:32,375 --> 01:15:34,667
- Yeah.

1409
01:15:34,667 --> 01:15:36,667
- The, um...
If you want to sometime,

1410
01:15:36,750 --> 01:15:38,500
that would be really neat.
- Mm.

1411
01:15:40,875 --> 01:15:43,542
- I've heard from a lot of
people that you've come into

1412
01:15:43,625 --> 01:15:46,375
contact with over the
years, that you have...

1413
01:15:46,375 --> 01:15:48,375
moved in on, in a fairly

1414
01:15:48,375 --> 01:15:51,917
systematic way to,

1415
01:15:51,917 --> 01:15:54,917
sort of, ingratiate yourself
into their- their lives.

1416
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:57,375
And... I think you've-
- What a load of codswallop!

1417
01:15:57,417 --> 01:16:00,500
- I think you've left people
behind who are, um,

1418
01:16:00,542 --> 01:16:02,000
incredibly damaged.

1419
01:16:03,542 --> 01:16:06,625
- Oh, what a load of rubbish!

1420
01:16:07,792 --> 01:16:09,292
- Who are these people?
- And who are...?

1421
01:16:09,375 --> 01:16:12,625
It's absolute twaddle.

1422
01:16:13,792 --> 01:16:17,167
Rubbish. Absolute rubbish...

1423
01:16:19,250 --> 01:16:21,542
you know?
- Someone like Brent Lewis.

1424
01:16:21,542 --> 01:16:23,250
Do you- Do you know Brent Lewis?

1425
01:16:24,750 --> 01:16:27,542
He owned- owned a bookstore,
Nostromo Books.

1426
01:16:29,167 --> 01:16:30,917
- He was a very
good friend of...

1427
01:16:31,250 --> 01:16:32,917
of ours.

1428
01:16:46,042 --> 01:16:48,917
- Yeah, right. Right,
right, right. I'm with you.

1429
01:17:06,875 --> 01:17:08,917
- Right. Right, right, right.

1430
01:17:18,042 --> 01:17:21,417
- Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.

1431
01:17:32,042 --> 01:17:34,292
- Right. So that's
where he met Organ?

1432
01:17:34,292 --> 01:17:35,917
- Yeah. Yep.

1433
01:17:38,167 --> 01:17:40,292
- The story, as I recall it, um,

1434
01:17:40,917 --> 01:17:42,917
was that...

1435
01:17:42,917 --> 01:17:45,792
Brent had been given...
I think it was a model yacht...

1436
01:17:45,917 --> 01:17:50,042
to put on display in his
shop window. And, uh,

1437
01:17:50,125 --> 01:17:53,417
Michael Organ then had taken
a complaint to the police

1438
01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:56,792
that Brent had stolen it.
Now, I know Brent -

1439
01:17:56,875 --> 01:17:58,750
Brent didn't steal anything.
You know?

1440
01:17:58,750 --> 01:18:00,917
Um, he was totally honest.

1441
01:18:01,750 --> 01:18:03,542
Uh, and it was causing him

1442
01:18:03,542 --> 01:18:05,167
real anxiety.

1443
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,542
- I think, Michael Organ - he...

1444
01:18:09,542 --> 01:18:11,042
accused him of...

1445
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:14,042
stealing some model boat;

1446
01:18:14,125 --> 01:18:16,667
it arose out of something
as simple as that.

1447
01:18:17,792 --> 01:18:21,167
And he accused Brent,
and he worked on him

1448
01:18:21,250 --> 01:18:23,500
psychologically.

1449
01:18:23,542 --> 01:18:26,500
He was very fearful of him -

1450
01:18:26,542 --> 01:18:29,750
he was fearful.
He thought that he would...

1451
01:18:29,750 --> 01:18:33,375
that he would
cause him some harm;

1452
01:18:33,375 --> 01:18:35,375
get at him some way

1453
01:18:35,375 --> 01:18:37,750
and cause him harm.

1454
01:18:37,750 --> 01:18:40,667
It's really all I can
say about it, I think.

1455
01:18:40,750 --> 01:18:43,167
Mm.
- Was there anything,

1456
01:18:43,167 --> 01:18:45,625
any friends could do around
him? Like, what was your...

1457
01:18:45,625 --> 01:18:47,917
what was your take that you
could sort of do, you know?

1458
01:18:47,917 --> 01:18:49,667
Cos it's hard to know
how to deal with someone

1459
01:18:49,667 --> 01:18:51,167
when they're
scared of something,

1460
01:18:51,167 --> 01:18:53,917
and you really don't
know whether that's...

1461
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,250
- valid or not.
- Well, it was...

1462
01:18:57,250 --> 01:18:59,292
It had to be valid,
because he...

1463
01:18:59,292 --> 01:19:02,417
he felt it.

1464
01:19:02,417 --> 01:19:04,750
- I just remember the...

1465
01:19:04,792 --> 01:19:08,167
the haunted look in
Brent's eyes when he-

1466
01:19:08,167 --> 01:19:10,667
when he talked about this.
Nothing like this had happened

1467
01:19:10,667 --> 01:19:14,750
to him before. He was on
medication to deal with it.

1468
01:19:15,375 --> 01:19:18,792
Uh, but for reasons that
we don't clearly understand -

1469
01:19:18,792 --> 01:19:21,042
one night, um, I remember it,

1470
01:19:21,125 --> 01:19:23,917
back in 2009. I'd seen
him just a week earlier;

1471
01:19:25,167 --> 01:19:27,292
He was staying in a
flat on Symonds St,

1472
01:19:27,875 --> 01:19:30,042
on the seventh floor.

1473
01:19:30,042 --> 01:19:32,042
And he went on to the
balcony and jumped off,

1474
01:19:32,042 --> 01:19:34,042
and that's how he lost his life.

1475
01:19:41,167 --> 01:19:44,292
I remember sadly looking at
the...

1476
01:19:44,292 --> 01:19:46,500
the hollow in the ground that
had been left by the impact of

1477
01:19:46,500 --> 01:19:48,750
his body when he jumped...

1478
01:19:48,792 --> 01:19:50,417
and just the overwhelming
feeling, 'Brent,

1479
01:19:50,417 --> 01:19:53,125
'what was in your head that
things had become so bad,

1480
01:19:53,167 --> 01:19:55,250
'that you thought
you had to do this?'

1481
01:20:00,250 --> 01:20:03,875
Now, in his bookshop,

1482
01:20:36,167 --> 01:20:39,167
- Watching Organ being talked
about at Brent's funeral is

1483
01:20:39,167 --> 01:20:42,792
surreal; this whole story I've
just been told is surreal.

1484
01:20:44,167 --> 01:20:46,792
That Organ accused Brent of the
crime he himself had carried

1485
01:20:46,875 --> 01:20:48,375
out - stealing a yacht.

1486
01:20:54,917 --> 01:20:57,750
It seems almost
poetic, in a way.

1487
01:20:57,750 --> 01:20:59,917
But it's not poetic.
It's horrible.

1488
01:21:03,375 --> 01:21:06,500
- And I just think it's to
do with Michael Organ's...

1489
01:21:07,875 --> 01:21:11,292
uh, psychological interest

1490
01:21:11,375 --> 01:21:13,667
in manipulating Brent,

1491
01:21:13,667 --> 01:21:15,417
because he saw him
as a ready victim.

1492
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:21,667
And he got into Brent's mind

1493
01:21:21,667 --> 01:21:23,500
and, to a degree, dominated him.

1494
01:21:26,125 --> 01:21:30,042
- The Germans have that term,
you know, dark mind, that, uh,

1495
01:21:30,042 --> 01:21:34,292
people get a satisfaction from
spreading misery or seeing,

1496
01:21:34,292 --> 01:21:36,417
um...

1497
01:21:36,417 --> 01:21:38,042
um, somebody...

1498
01:21:39,792 --> 01:21:41,917
in some form of...

1499
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,917
what they see is crisis
or whatever.

1500
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:47,792
- Oh, that sounds awful. Yeah.

1501
01:21:47,917 --> 01:21:50,792
'Suddenly, all the conversations
I've had with Michael

1502
01:21:50,792 --> 01:21:52,375
'start to make sense.'

1503
01:21:53,917 --> 01:21:57,125
— Sometimes people,
when you know them,

1504
01:21:57,125 --> 01:22:00,125
or they get close to you,

1505
01:22:00,167 --> 01:22:02,917
or in your circle through
other people you know

1506
01:22:03,500 --> 01:22:05,250
may actually be-

1507
01:22:05,292 --> 01:22:07,000
I don't use the term wolves
in sheep's clothing,

1508
01:22:07,042 --> 01:22:09,292
but that's what they
can actually be.

1509
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:16,375
You know, they can even sit
there, they can eat your food,

1510
01:22:16,375 --> 01:22:19,542
they can sit at the table
with you, share your wine...

1511
01:22:22,792 --> 01:22:26,042
they can smile when they
greet you - they can...

1512
01:22:26,042 --> 01:22:27,792
all those things.
- These people are amongst us.

1513
01:22:27,875 --> 01:22:30,750
- And at the end of the
day, there is that side...

1514
01:22:30,750 --> 01:22:32,375
to some people.

1515
01:22:35,542 --> 01:22:38,917
- For years, I've been trying
to get Michael Organ to tell

1516
01:22:38,917 --> 01:22:42,625
me who's behind all the crazy
stuff I've been discovering.

1517
01:22:42,625 --> 01:22:44,917
- And I, to this day,

1518
01:22:45,042 --> 01:22:47,292
do not know what the
name of that man is.

1519
01:22:47,292 --> 01:22:50,167
But if I was lined up, I could
pick him out of any crowd.

1520
01:22:52,167 --> 01:22:55,000
If I told you what the person
looked like and how he spoke,

1521
01:22:56,917 --> 01:22:59,542
um, then you would be able
to ascertain who it was,

1522
01:22:59,625 --> 01:23:02,167
I would think.

1523
01:23:02,167 --> 01:23:05,292
- Of course I could,
because I think they're all him.

1524
01:23:07,167 --> 01:23:09,792
It's my theory that anyone
Michael doesn't name

1525
01:23:09,875 --> 01:23:11,500
is himself.

1526
01:23:12,917 --> 01:23:16,042
- The person who
provided that key...

1527
01:23:17,500 --> 01:23:20,292
um, would expect
confidentiality.

1528
01:23:20,292 --> 01:23:23,167
It wasn't promised them,
but they'd expect it.

1529
01:23:23,292 --> 01:23:25,917
And they're not the kinds
of people you wanna cross.

1530
01:23:25,917 --> 01:23:28,167
- He knew who stole my key,

1531
01:23:28,167 --> 01:23:29,917
the same way he knew who
sent those legal threats

1532
01:23:30,667 --> 01:23:33,000
from Jillian's email account.

1533
01:23:33,042 --> 01:23:36,667
- Urn, you may have an
inkling who it is. But that...

1534
01:23:36,667 --> 01:23:38,625
- No, I don't.
- ...I'LL disclose later.

1535
01:23:38,667 --> 01:23:41,375
- 'And Michael
gets very specific,

1536
01:23:41,375 --> 01:23:45,125
'telling me the person who set
him up spelled his name wrong.'

1537
01:23:45,167 --> 01:23:47,917
- A tell with it was
that what was written...

1538
01:23:49,792 --> 01:23:50,750
um, one of the things
that was written,

1539
01:23:50,792 --> 01:23:52,250
someone spelled my name wrong -

1540
01:23:52,292 --> 01:23:55,542
I think they put E-A-L
instead of A-E-L.

1541
01:23:55,542 --> 01:24:00,250
- But Michael's been signing his
own name like this for decades.

1542
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:05,917
And, of course,
Michael Organ had told me

1543
01:24:05,917 --> 01:24:09,042
he knew who'd
harassed Brent Lewis;

1544
01:24:09,125 --> 01:24:11,417
it was someone who
sounded very familiar.

1545
01:24:13,542 --> 01:24:16,542
- And it was very strange,
because there was a lawyer -

1546
01:24:16,542 --> 01:24:19,542
all I remember's he said he was
a lawyer - I never had his name.

1547
01:24:19,625 --> 01:24:22,375
And...
he started

1548
01:24:22,417 --> 01:24:26,250
becoming involved in doing
this weird stuff with Brett,

1549
01:24:26,292 --> 01:24:28,917
and...

1550
01:24:28,917 --> 01:24:30,292
when I first saw him,
he was quite disheveled -

1551
01:24:31,542 --> 01:24:33,500
and not that lawyers can't
be disheveled - but I thought,

1552
01:24:33,542 --> 01:24:36,542
'Is this guy actually a lawyer?'
And I thought at the time,

1553
01:24:36,625 --> 01:24:38,167
he seemed very dodgy.

1554
01:24:39,917 --> 01:24:41,250
- So, who is this guy,
this disheveled guy?

1555
01:24:41,292 --> 01:24:44,042
- I don't know his name.
Never knew his name.

1556
01:24:46,042 --> 01:24:48,625
- 'Even in our
very last meeting,

1557
01:24:48,667 --> 01:24:52,042
'he started making allegations
about someone else.'

1558
01:24:52,042 --> 01:24:55,292
- The police referred
to him as predatory.

1559
01:24:55,292 --> 01:24:58,375
So as soon as I heard that,
I thought, 'That's it.'

1560
01:24:58,417 --> 01:25:00,167
- Right.

1561
01:25:01,375 --> 01:25:04,167
We don't
do predatory.

1562
01:25:08,167 --> 01:25:10,167
I wonder who we're
talking about, eh?

1563
01:25:10,250 --> 01:25:13,542
Because you and I know we both
know who we're talking about.

1564
01:25:13,542 --> 01:25:16,750
- I've got a suspicion of
who we're talking about.

1565
01:25:16,792 --> 01:25:18,417
Yes.

1566
01:25:30,375 --> 01:25:33,500
- I thought all my time with
Michael had been wasted,

1567
01:25:33,542 --> 01:25:36,167
that I'd learned nothing.
But the truth is,

1568
01:25:36,167 --> 01:25:38,042
Michael had been
telling me about himself

1569
01:25:38,042 --> 01:25:40,875
from the first day I met him.

1570
01:25:40,875 --> 01:25:43,542
He's a man almost
detached from his own body;

1571
01:25:43,542 --> 01:25:46,875
occupying this unique
place in society,

1572
01:25:46,917 --> 01:25:49,375
free from consequence,
free from the law -

1573
01:25:49,375 --> 01:25:51,667
free to do whatever
he wants to people.

1574
01:25:57,792 --> 01:26:01,375
I've been trespassed from all
Michael's properties now - well,

1575
01:26:01,375 --> 01:26:03,875
his and Jillian's.
Their house, the bank -

1576
01:26:03,875 --> 01:26:05,917
it's all off-limits.

1577
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,375
But there's one place I can go;

1578
01:26:08,417 --> 01:26:10,667
another place Michael lived,

1579
01:26:10,667 --> 01:26:12,042
up until a few months ago.

1580
01:26:15,167 --> 01:26:17,542
While I'll never understand
Michael's mind,

1581
01:26:17,542 --> 01:26:19,792
maybe this place
will provide answers.

1582
01:26:25,667 --> 01:26:28,042
Kingseat was an old
psychiatric hospital,

1583
01:26:28,042 --> 01:26:30,250
originally opening back in 1932.

1584
01:26:32,625 --> 01:26:36,500
Patients would later complain
of abuse, tiny locked rooms,

1585
01:26:36,500 --> 01:26:39,542
deadbolts on the doors,
physical and mental torture.

1586
01:26:42,167 --> 01:26:44,667
It shut down in 1999.

1587
01:26:44,667 --> 01:26:47,792
But some people still
choose to live out here —

1588
01:26:47,792 --> 01:26:49,750
cheap rent, sprawling grounds.

1589
01:26:52,792 --> 01:26:55,792
Michael lived in one of
the old psychiatric wards.

1590
01:26:57,917 --> 01:26:59,917
I wonder what he left behind...

1591
01:27:01,167 --> 01:27:02,625
who he left behind.

1592
01:27:07,875 --> 01:27:11,625
- Yeah, well, see, he had
most of this whole interior

1593
01:27:11,667 --> 01:27:14,750
of the villa to himself,
cos he was the...

1594
01:27:16,500 --> 01:27:19,167
head tenant. So he was
letting out rooms to people,

1595
01:27:19,167 --> 01:27:20,667
getting them in
to rent and that.

1596
01:27:20,750 --> 01:27:23,250
So...

1597
01:27:23,292 --> 01:27:24,542
this is, sort of, where
the foyer is, urn, yes.

1598
01:27:25,667 --> 01:27:27,792
- This is all- It's a big place.
- Yeah. Well,

1599
01:27:27,875 --> 01:27:29,750
they had a lot of people here
at once, you know - they'd have

1600
01:27:29,792 --> 01:27:31,667
50 to a hundred people.
They'd bring them in here

1601
01:27:31,750 --> 01:27:33,792
when they were running
the mental hospital.

1602
01:27:33,792 --> 01:27:37,167
- So, where did he used to live?
Where was his room?

1603
01:27:37,250 --> 01:27:38,500
- This is upstairs. We'll go
upstairs and have a look.

1604
01:27:38,542 --> 01:27:41,375
I'll show you where he had
his bedroom and their kitchen

1605
01:27:41,417 --> 01:27:43,375
and their lounge and that sort
of thing. But he used to like to

1606
01:27:43,417 --> 01:27:46,500
spend most of his time dwelling
around other people's areas -

1607
01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:49,375
being a parasite,
he would come into their area.

1608
01:27:52,542 --> 01:27:55,625
It's been tidied up a lot. A
bloody mess of a pigsty he had.

1609
01:27:55,667 --> 01:27:57,667
Yeah.

1610
01:27:57,750 --> 01:27:59,750
- You know, he poisoned me off.

1611
01:27:59,792 --> 01:28:01,917
He left me angry
and crazy in the head.

1612
01:28:02,042 --> 01:28:04,792
That's what-
That's his trademark.

1613
01:28:04,792 --> 01:28:08,000
You know? Soften them up,
poison them off,

1614
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:09,792
and then shoot
them down in flames.

1615
01:28:10,792 --> 01:28:12,792
That's all you are.
- And what do you mean by

1616
01:28:12,792 --> 01:28:15,500
poisoning people off?
- What he does, he tries to get

1617
01:28:15,542 --> 01:28:18,125
inside their head and
psycho-dysfunctional-ise them -

1618
01:28:18,167 --> 01:28:20,917
muck them up and dull them down
and try and give them- you know,

1619
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:23,667
stun them and turn them
into a zombie, and then he...

1620
01:28:23,667 --> 01:28:25,542
- Ah. See,

1621
01:28:25,542 --> 01:28:28,167
I've been filming with him
over the last couple of years,

1622
01:28:28,250 --> 01:28:30,292
and I've been feeling
elements of that.

1623
01:28:30,375 --> 01:28:34,792
Like, it's hard to explain to
people why you get that way.

1624
01:28:34,875 --> 01:28:36,792
But it's like he does- Yeah.
- And that's what he does -

1625
01:28:36,875 --> 01:28:39,792
he just victimizes people;
that's all he's all about.

1626
01:28:39,875 --> 01:28:42,375
Just crushes and chews and shits
on people as he goes, basically.

1627
01:28:42,667 --> 01:28:45,500
- Mm.

1628
01:28:45,500 --> 01:28:48,750
- He wanted me to go and move
down to, um, Whanganui with him-

1629
01:28:48,792 --> 01:28:50,250
- Did he?
- ...and live there with him.

1630
01:28:50,292 --> 01:28:52,167
Yeah, he was trying to
talk me into leaving here

1631
01:28:52,167 --> 01:28:54,167
and going and moving
with him to Whanganui.

1632
01:28:54,250 --> 01:28:56,792
You may as well jump
out the bloody window -

1633
01:28:56,875 --> 01:29:00,167
be better off. Hopefully you'd
break your legs or your neck,

1634
01:29:00,167 --> 01:29:01,917
and you'd be dead;
rather than go with him.

1635
01:29:01,917 --> 01:29:03,292
You'd end up dead anyway.

1636
01:29:06,917 --> 01:29:09,042
Cos he used to come in my room
quite a bit. He loves to go

1637
01:29:09,042 --> 01:29:12,000
round when you're in bed
asleep and get in your room.

1638
01:29:12,042 --> 01:29:13,292
- Jesus.
- He's got this really...

1639
01:29:13,375 --> 01:29:15,750
He's got this really
sort of weird,

1640
01:29:15,750 --> 01:29:17,417
sneaky, creepy thing.

1641
01:29:19,792 --> 01:29:21,917
- God, it's a certain
vibe, isn't it?

1642
01:29:24,167 --> 01:29:27,542
Cos he... Yeah, he, um... sort
of, long, very boring story,

1643
01:29:27,625 --> 01:29:28,917
but when the shop closed down,

1644
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:30,917
I took some old signs
that were by the bin,

1645
01:29:32,042 --> 01:29:33,500
and then he accused
me of stealing them.

1646
01:29:33,542 --> 01:29:34,875
- That'd be about right.

1647
01:29:34,917 --> 01:29:36,542
- And then I was gonna give
them back to him, and they

1648
01:29:36,542 --> 01:29:38,750
disappeared overnight from
where I had them under my house.

1649
01:29:38,792 --> 01:29:40,125
- Yeah, he would have
gone and taken them.

1650
01:29:40,167 --> 01:29:42,542
You live in, is it,
um, Ponsonby?

1651
01:29:42,542 --> 01:29:43,917
- I'm in Ponsonby.
— Yeah, yeah.

1652
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:46,625
He's been round your house,
sneaking round your house.

1653
01:29:46,667 --> 01:29:48,167
- How... How do you know that?
- He prowls.

1654
01:29:48,167 --> 01:29:50,792
He goes and prowls
and lurks after people -

1655
01:29:50,792 --> 01:29:52,875
that's what he does.
He goes and he... Yeah.

1656
01:29:52,917 --> 01:29:54,542
Yeah, he goes round
people's houses and that

1657
01:29:54,625 --> 01:29:56,792
and spies on them and that.

1658
01:29:56,792 --> 01:29:59,542
- So, how did you know
that he'd been to my house?

1659
01:29:59,542 --> 01:30:02,292
- Cos he's talked all about you
and said that he's on to you.

1660
01:30:02,292 --> 01:30:04,792
- Oh! Fucking hell.
- Yeah.

1661
01:30:04,792 --> 01:30:06,542
And he's been going
round. Apparently,

1662
01:30:06,625 --> 01:30:08,167
he's even got a key to your
house. He's got a hold of it.

1663
01:30:08,167 --> 01:30:09,542
- Yeah, he does - he does
have a key to my house.

1664
01:30:09,542 --> 01:30:11,167
- Yeah. Yes.
That's actually illegal.

1665
01:30:11,167 --> 01:30:12,542
- How? But-

1666
01:30:12,542 --> 01:30:13,542
- He's not supposed
to be doing that,

1667
01:30:13,625 --> 01:30:15,250
cos it's your house
and your property.

1668
01:30:15,250 --> 01:30:17,417
- So he openly talks about this?
- Yes.

1669
01:30:18,875 --> 01:30:21,167
He just- In his head,
he gets delusions

1670
01:30:21,167 --> 01:30:24,167
about making
victims out of people.

1671
01:30:24,167 --> 01:30:26,167
And once he gets the
idea in his head about,

1672
01:30:26,250 --> 01:30:28,292
you know, he's going to
go and go for someone,

1673
01:30:28,375 --> 01:30:30,875
or go after someone,
that's the end of it.

1674
01:30:32,417 --> 01:30:34,750
What do you do?
- Well, that's the thing -

1675
01:30:34,750 --> 01:30:36,917
what do you do?
- Well, he needs- See,

1676
01:30:36,917 --> 01:30:39,667
in the old days, they sent
people to places like that,

1677
01:30:39,667 --> 01:30:40,792
like here. And what
they've clone now is

1678
01:30:40,792 --> 01:30:42,792
they just chuck
them into the street.

1679
01:30:42,917 --> 01:30:45,167
- But he weirdly
ended up here anyway.

1680
01:30:45,292 --> 01:30:46,375
But it's not
a mental institution.

1681
01:30:46,375 --> 01:30:47,917
- Yeah, well, 20 years too late,

1682
01:30:47,917 --> 01:30:49,917
cos the doctors and the
nurses aren't here any more.

1683
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:53,875
But he could fill this place up
on his own. Oh yeah. Yeah,

1684
01:30:53,917 --> 01:30:56,750
you just get him to go round
the general population,

1685
01:30:56,750 --> 01:30:59,417
he could make plenty of,
um, customers for this place.

1686
01:30:59,500 --> 01:31:01,792
Poisoning people off,
making people mental, crazy,

1687
01:31:01,917 --> 01:31:05,250
destabilizing people —
that's his function.

1688
01:31:05,292 --> 01:31:06,750
Yeah.

1689
01:31:08,292 --> 01:31:10,000
Fuck.

1690
01:31:18,750 --> 01:31:22,042
- He makes up so
much muck about people,

1691
01:31:22,042 --> 01:31:23,917
like you're some evil person.

1692
01:31:25,542 --> 01:31:27,417
- Yep. Yeah.
- Um, 'Oh, there's this bastard

1693
01:31:27,417 --> 01:31:29,417
'who's going round making
this documentary about me.'

1694
01:31:29,417 --> 01:31:32,125
And on one sort of hand,
you can, sort of, see that

1695
01:31:32,167 --> 01:31:35,250
he's loving it and he's getting
his euphoric pleasure from it.

1696
01:31:35,292 --> 01:31:37,667
But the same time, it's bugging
him or biting at him as well...

1697
01:31:37,667 --> 01:31:39,417
- Yeah.
- ...uh, psychologically,

1698
01:31:39,417 --> 01:31:42,917
because it's the truth
that really he's a bastard,

1699
01:31:42,917 --> 01:31:45,792
and he's gone round just
poisoning the world off

1700
01:31:45,792 --> 01:31:49,375
and leaving everybody in
a wake of destructive mess

1701
01:31:49,375 --> 01:31:51,167
that he leaves behind
with everybody afterwards.

1702
01:31:51,167 --> 01:31:52,375
That's all he does.
- Yeah. Yeah.

1703
01:31:58,417 --> 01:32:00,792
- It just adds up.

1704
01:32:00,875 --> 01:32:04,625
- Well, what his... Like
I said, it's just what he did.

1705
01:32:04,667 --> 01:32:07,917
His whole life,
he'll just spend expanding,

1706
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:10,917
continuously goes along
just getting people

1707
01:32:10,917 --> 01:32:13,750
and just trying to poison
them off. That's what he does.

1708
01:32:13,750 --> 01:32:16,292
Possibly he's an evil spirit -

1709
01:32:16,292 --> 01:32:18,167
that's why he runs
the way he does.

1710
01:32:21,875 --> 01:32:24,167
- Wonder where
Michael will end up.

1711
01:32:24,167 --> 01:32:27,417
- Um, if he went down to
hell... - Mm.

1712
01:32:27,500 --> 01:32:30,167
- ...Satan would be up banging
on the door, asking God,

1713
01:32:30,250 --> 01:32:32,417
'Oh, please get me
away from Michael.'

1714
01:33:11,875 --> 01:33:13,167
You
have crossed the line,

1715
01:33:13,167 --> 01:33:14,917
in terms of civil threshold.

1716
01:33:17,167 --> 01:33:21,625
OK. The way you were speaking
and making hateful comments,

1717
01:33:21,625 --> 01:33:24,542
your body language
and your voice tone -

1718
01:33:24,542 --> 01:33:27,875
your voice tone come through,
but your body language,

1719
01:33:27,875 --> 01:33:28,917
I mean...
- OK.

1720
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:30,042
- OK?
- OK. Bye, Mike.

1721
01:33:30,042 --> 01:33:30,542
- See ya.

1722
01:33:30,667 --> 01:33:32,167
- So I just have...