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This program me
contains some strong language
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I like to disappoint visitors. You know, they come
in the house, they see a photoshopped, thinner,
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younger version of you.
You're pregnant now,
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that's the only difference.
Something happened to me. I swear.
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I looked like that
just, like, a few years ago. Mmm.
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Ancl all my, like, good-looking
hormones moved to the front
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of the line. But as soon as I got
married... I've been pregnant
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solidly since then,
and I started looking like this.
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They were like, "job done." Yeah.
They're like, "Oh, forget it."
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Ancl then everyone's like, "Well, Katherine's
really clone a number with plastic surgery." No.
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I've clone absolutely nothing
but get on the wrong side of 35.
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That's all that's happened.
You look great, by the way.
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You look great, Louis.
But what I've clone is... Do I?
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You're not allowed to get Botox
when you're pregnant.
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So that's what's happened.
Yeah, you do. I wish.
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Did you meet the clogs?
I think I did, yeah.
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OK. Do we just sit down?
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Katherine Ryan is one of the most
successful and outspoken comedians
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working in the UK.
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Here we go.
This is going to be interesting.
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I mean, I'm fine with it.
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I can lock them up if you want
but then they might cry.
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Who knew that I was so popular
in the dog community?
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Sorry about this, but I really think
it'll keep the animals
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out of your hair. Here you go.
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For a few days, she'd allowed me
a glimpse of the private person
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behind her provocative material.
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So if they should come into frame,
you want us to take them out?
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Take them out.
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On the Essex coast, I had
an appointment to see some comedy.
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Here she is.
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Welcome... Hey!
..to South end-on-Sea.
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Nice to see you. Hey. Nice
to see you in civilian clothing.
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I know. It's so humanising.
I didn't even cheat.
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I didn't even do, like,
half make-up.
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Have you been to South end before?
Been to South end loads. Have you?
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Hi! Look at that.
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Hi, girls. There we are,
on camera. jeez.
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Skewing very female.
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Katherine was doing one of the final
dates of her latest tour
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around Europe and the UK.
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May I? Can we?
Should we? Dare we?
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We see so many exciting
dressing rooms in our travels.
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How does this rate
on the dressing room-ometer?
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I mean, it's not bad.
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Ta-da! So glamorous.
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I always wear a headband.
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I feel like it completes the look.
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Here we go. How's it looking
out there? It's good.
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They've just opened doors.
What's the vibe? It's Friday night,
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it's South end
so anything cold happen.
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Anything can happen.
I forgot it's Friday.
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Yeah. Friday. Apparently,
David Essex last night.
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Are you serious? A few fisticuffs.
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Really? Oh, no!
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For real or are you just...?
No, seriously.
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I was just talking to the venue.
David or the fans? I think the fans.
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Ta-da. Hello. Wow.
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You look sensational. I look like
the Statue of Liberty in drag,
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and I don't see how that's a bad
thing. Pretty accurate.
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That's the look I'm going for,
every clay. What's the timer?
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Very unprofessionally
I bring this on stage.
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To see how long you're on stage for?
Yeah. It's already started.
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You've started the meter.
Well, we're three minutes late.
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Time is money.
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I want to be more like
British girls.
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I want to be more like you
and less Canadian, barf.
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That's where I'm from. So I've
stopped saying hi to strangers.
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I've started getting drunk
and fucking them.
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Katherine arrived in the UK 15 years
ago and has gone on to become
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one of the hardest-working and most
bankable stand-ups in the country.
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I loved being pregnant, though.
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People ask you all those baby
questions, don't they?
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"Oh, what's it going to be like?
Who's it going to look like?"
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And you give a standard baby answer,
right? "We don't care as long as it's..."
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AUDIENCE: Healthy. "..not gay."
Exactly right.
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With two Netflix specials
and a near ubiquitous TV presence,
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she brings a style, both
glamorous and foul-mouthed...
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DROWNED OUT BY APPLAUSE
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...speaking on issues like celebrity,
female power and family.
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My sister's genuinely just had
a baby and named him Dick.
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When I want to see pictures of him,
I'll text my mom and be like,
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"Mom, you got any Dick pics for
me?"
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LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
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Hello, South end.
Thank you so much for being here.
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CHEERING
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Her most recent show, titled
Missus,
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describes how she found love
and contentment with an old flame.
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Now, we can't stress this enough,
guys. I was not looking.
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They say don't go food
shopping hungry.
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Don't go man shopping thirsty.
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LAUGHTER
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He's only 5'11
which isn't even small.
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But guess what? He's seven feet
standing on his click, bitch, so.
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LAUGHTER
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So!
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But Katherine's journey
hasn't all been easy.
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There have been personal challenges
and controversy.
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At her home in far North London,
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I sat down with her to discuss
her life and craft.
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Thank you for having me. You're not
supposed to say that, I learned.
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Why not? It means we had sex.
Oh.
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You must never say thank you for
having me cos it means you had me.
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So I never say that. Thank you
for letting me into your...
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...home?
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Your ass?
There we go. In some access.
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I'll try not to say anything like
that. It doesn't sound right
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coming from me.
So how's it all going?
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Like ,| have the feeling
that you're really, really busy
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in a good way. You've got
a lot going on personally,
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obviously, a baby on its way,
but also professionally,
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like a million projects.
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What we were told was there's
basically two days this month
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when Katherine's not working
and that included weekends, I think.
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Yeah, I pretty much work every clay.
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Ancl certainly since Fred was born
15 months ago,
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I've worked almost every clay.
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I started back at work when he was
eight clays old. Eight days old.
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It wasn't very long ago
that I was on the poverty line
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in this country
and I worked at an office job.
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And there was a time when people
didn't ask me to go and do comedy
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for the day and earn a tonne
of money that I didn't deserve.
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So now, if anyone is ever like,
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"There's a bunch of money over
there, do you want to go get it?"
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I'll go, "Yeah." Mmm. Yeah. I feel
like it's almost rude to say no.
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What about adverts?
I like adverts.
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Have you done many?
I've clone some adverts.
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I've turned some down.
Because of ethics or too busy
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or just... Never too busy because
adverts pay loads of money.
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I'm never too busy
for loads of money.
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There's the quote.
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I'm not. I'm not.
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You have a show at the moment
called Missus that you're touring,
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which has had amazing reviews.
Did you know that?
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People were enjoying a version
of you on stage that felt maybe
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a little closer to the real you
and was maybe in certain respects
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less provocative, less edgy,
if that makes sense.
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Well, I didn't see that, but I saw
a headline that said "Softer."
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Well, I was trying not to say
softer. You can say it.
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But that jumped out to me
because I am definitely aware
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that for a long time
people would have this idea
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that I wasn't kind or I wasn't soft.
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The show's not softer at all.
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It just happens to be that
the things that are significant
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in my life right now are things
like I've had a baby
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and I really love this man
all of a sudden, but it's spun
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on this axis of, like, hypocrisy.
I go, I know I've let you down.
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I stomped around and I said,
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I got to empower a nation of young
feminists and say,
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"You don't need a man."
Ancl then I cashed in those chips
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and got married like a stupid whore.
So it's not terribly soft.
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It's still got me all over it.
I was just wrong about myself
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and what I wanted and what I thought
my life was going to be.
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In 2019, Katherine reunited with her
Canadian high school sweetheart,
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Bobby Kootstra.
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He moved to London to live with her
and her daughter Violet.
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Two years later, a son,
Fred, came along.
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Here he is. Hello. Come on.
Let's say hello to Bobby.
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How are you doing? Good. Nice to
meet you. You too. Yeah, yeah.
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Thanks for coming by now.
Thanks for having us. Where's baby?
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Baby's asleep, I'm just coming
to get the screen... Oh!
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I'm going to get the camera hooked
up. Yeah. Nice one.
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Nice to meet you, Bobby.
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We have some sliders
because the grass a bit wet.
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Oh, well, that's a nice idea.
Do they fit you?
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I could get you... Pretty much.
Cute. Cute, cute.
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So we didn't have a pool
when we first moved here.
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Ancl then Bobby got together with
this amazing company and dug a hole,
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and he loved the hole.
He sat in the hole.
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He put a little lawn chair
in the hole. Bobby did? Yeah.
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00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,095
I couldn't find him sometimes.
Ancl he'd just be down that hole.
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So Bobby helped put this in?
Yeah. So he's handy.
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Canadian men know how to do
a lot of stuff.
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Course they do, they're real men.
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So Bobby was my high school
boyfriend, and I loved him so much.
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Yeah. But then I saw him again
very randomly, um, January 2019.
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And then...
Was that when you were filming?
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When I was filming Who Do
You Think You Are in Canada.
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Shagged him, cos I thought
it'd be funny to do.
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Ancl he thought it would be funny.
Ancl I was not... It was not in my
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personality to do, that as much as I
let on, like, I'm loads of fun,
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I'd never had a one-night stand
and I still haven't.
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In your whole life? My whole life.
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I just thought,
oh, that will be funny.
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I'd been single for, like,
almost a year.
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00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,375
Ancl then we got married, like, eight
months later. Isn't that lovely?
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The story of reuniting with your
long lost high school sweetheart
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00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:06,015
20 years on, and finding out
that he's the man of your dreams
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00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:10,015
and that every part of it that you
thought was a missed opportunity
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00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,735
or maybe romanticised in
hindsight... Yeah.
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00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,375
...in fact, it was all real.
Well, it was. That's so lovely.
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So far. But I got a lot of people
holding out for the divorce
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they want to see. They want to see
this end badly for me. Like who?
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00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,055
Just people... Trolls? Yeah.
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They're like, "You'll have egg
on your face." Maybe.
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You have a joke in your new show,
I think saying he fell in love
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00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,815
with you when you when he saw
your house. Yeah.
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00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,935
Ancl I say that because that's
what people want me to say.
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00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,895
They want me to be aware
that he might be using me for money.
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00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,815
But in reality, when he came to
London, I hadn't bought the house.
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00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,135
Really? I lived in a flat.
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00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,135
So you played into the...
whatever that is, the stereotype
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00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,375
or the prejudice because it is
funny. It's fun for people.
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00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,655
Yeah.
I don't want to spoil their fun.
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00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:58,415
Like, if it's fun for people to
think that Bobby's using me
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00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,415
for money and they've had loads of
plastic surgery and this and that,
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00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,175
then that's great that I know that
and then I use that cos my job
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00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,455
is to make them laugh. I don't care
if I'm the punch line at all,
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00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,615
at all, cos I get to live here
and I have the pool.
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00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,455
Do you know what I mean? Like, what?
I don't understand being precious
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00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,015
about that stuff, but then that gets
me in trouble sometimes
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00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,055
cos I'll assume
that everyone's that way.
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Ancl then so when I do roast comedy
or that type of thing,
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00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,815
or sometimes I'll say something
about a celebrity
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00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,735
and it can be misconstrued, then I
feel badly cos I don't actually
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00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,535
want to hurt people's feelings.
I forget that people have feelings
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00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:35,695
that I don't have. What do you mean
that you don't have?
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00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:41,895
Like, if someone had a really good
joke about me, I would love it.
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I don't care what most people think.
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00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,935
To not care at all about what anyone
thinks, you would...
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00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,615
I would worry that it's almost
like sort of slightly sociopathic.
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00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,815
I've worried about that, too.
Do you know what I mean?
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00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,015
Because actually isn't part
of our morality
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00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,255
created by a sense of
feeling ashamed when...
225
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,015
...when there's a shame... You know,
226
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:04,975
when there's a shame
attached to something.
227
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,255
It's my preference that people
like me.
228
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,615
But if they don't like,
I just don't mind. I don't.
229
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,695
But I have questioned that,
I've gone, why don't I mind at all?
230
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:20,335
Ancl you know how everyone has some
varying degree of neuro diversion
231
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,615
now that they're self diagnosing
with? Of course, yeah.
232
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,855
I'm like, maybe I have, like,
a version of autism
233
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,815
where I don't care about that.
Ancl then I went, probably not.
234
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,215
Cos we're on the subject,
you have told jokes over the years
235
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,615
that came in for criticism. One in
particular, you've mentioned
236
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,535
where it was a joke the Filipino
community took amiss. Yeah.
237
00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:42,015
And you had death threats.
238
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,175
The way it sounded was that
an entire nation, basically,
239
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,175
was up in arms about what they saw
as a racist joke.
240
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,095
The joke was on a show where
you had to play a game
241
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,055
and fill in a blank.
Ancl the game was,
242
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,495
"Name something that's unlikely
to hear from a cosmetics company."
243
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,735
So I said, "We don't test
our products on animals.
244
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,615
"We use Filipino children instead."
245
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,215
So it's a pull back and reveal joke
about like, "We're so great,
246
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,215
"we're so biased, but we're actually
doing something much worse."
247
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:15,895
Ancl that is a joke at the expense
of big industries and, you know,
248
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,735
lab our laws and stuff. It's not a
joke about Filipino children,
249
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,695
but I knew what I was doing. I think
if you can stand behind what you say
250
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,655
and you know what it means...
Cos you'll be misunderstood
251
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:27,895
or you be wilfully misunderstood,
I wasn't that upset about it,
252
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,055
all things considered, I wasn't,
even though I was young,
253
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,375
cos I knew...| knew
what I was trying to say.
254
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,015
Did Bobby put this up as well?
Yeah, but don't go from too far.
255
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,495
Is this good?
Really slams at the end.
256
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,135
So you'll go up and you have to hold
on. And then this is your legal
257
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,295
disclaimer. This is my legal
disclaimer.
258
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,215
I didn't hear any
of what you just said.
259
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,095
I heard you say it's fine and it's
perfectly safe. just hold on.
260
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,255
"The nation
goes into mourning tonight
261
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,175
"with news the documentary legend
262
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,855
"Louis Theroux has died in a
bizarre..." You've had all the kids
263
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,895
you want to have, right? "..at the
house of comedian Katherine Ryan."
264
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,415
Just hold on.
265
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,295
YEP, yep. Good, g00d_
266
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,095
Do you think you can be cancel led?
Like, is that a real thing?
267
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,335
Or if you decide, like,
"I don't really care what you say.
268
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,735
"And if a few of my gigs dry up,
I'll just find some other gigs"?
269
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,535
Hmm. I don't know.
270
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,215
I think you can be cancel led,
like, if you...
271
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,015
...accuse too many men
of sexual assault.
272
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,135
Ancl then you're labelled
a troublemaker... Right.
273
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,695
...people won't book you any more.
274
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,415
I think it's more quiet
disappearing than cancellation.
275
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,455
You were in the papers recently for
saying that there was a predator.
276
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,335
Was that the term
that you had worked with?
277
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,895
And that you'd informed the
employers that he was a predator,
278
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,495
right? I didn't inform employers.
279
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,695
I informed him to his face...
Oh, him. ..that he was a predator.
280
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,375
When we say predator,
what do you mean?
281
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:05,895
I mean...
282
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,095
I think I mean a perpetrator
of sexual assault.
283
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:17,335
But it is very dangerous for us
to have this conversation.
284
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,175
I'm happy to have it... Why?
..but it is a litigious minefield.
285
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,575
Cos lots of people have tried
to nail this person down
286
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,815
for their alleged crimes.
287
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,015
Ancl this person has very
good lawyers.
288
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:37,135
So am I going to put my mortgage on
the line by saying who this person
289
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,935
is or, like, entering into any
conversations like that?
290
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:47,095
We've seen what happens to people
who talk about alleged predators.
291
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,855
I mean, it's not really my story
to tell.
292
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,095
No-one has perpetrated any sexual
assaults against me.
293
00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:01,735
But this person, I believe very
strongly - so do a lot of people
294
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,215
believe very strongly, it's an
open secret - is a perpetrator
295
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:12,375
of sexual assault. And I in front of
loads of people in the format of the
296
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,295
show said to this person's face
that they were a predator.
297
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,655
You said on the show?
Loads of times.
298
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,335
Not backstage? No.
299
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,095
Again and again.
300
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,615
But... Did they...
Did they keep that in the episode?
301
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,895
No.
302
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,815
Which is fine.
303
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,855
It's fine. I still got paid
and I still did my job,
304
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,695
but I did it in my way that
I felt was fair.
305
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,175
This is what we talk about.
306
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,175
This is what female comics
and probably actresses and women
307
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,335
in my industry talk about all the
time, because that's the safest
308
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:48,695
way for us to talk about it.
309
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,415
I didn't tell any employer or blow
a whistle or do anything at all.
310
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,615
I handled it, for lack of a better
term, like a man. Mm-hm.
311
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,695
Ancl said it to his face.
Did you get some criticism for that?
312
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,615
I got criticism for not naming
who it was after the fact
313
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,055
when I spoke about the original
show, yes.
314
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,215
Is there a chance that the
allegations are not well sourced
315
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,335
and that it would be
irresponsible on that level?
316
00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:15,295
No. Because they're too credible?
317
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,695
Yeah, they're really credible.
318
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,015
But also...
319
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,375
SHE SIGHS
320
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,255
...every time these things
are eventually proven
321
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,735
and you look at Bill Cosby
and you look at Harvey Weinstein
322
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,775
and you look at the unmentionable
British personality,
323
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,775
everybody knew. And they go,
"Well, everybody knew."
324
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,295
I'll say jimmy Savile.
325
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,415
I'll be the one who says it.
Yeah, you know him best. Mm-hm.
326
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,815
But, yeah. So, I mean, I didn't mean
to cause, like, a stir about it.
327
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,615
No. I just do... I say things
as they are.
328
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:53,135
Come on, then.
329
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:56,895
What's this one called, Katherine?
330
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,295
Manny.
331
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,055
Don't be afraid.
332
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,895
There's nothing to be afraid of.
333
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:12,895
Hello. Hello!
334
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,175
I love it - matching outfits.
335
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,735
If you'd told me, I would
have worn pink too!
336
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,895
Nice to see you. How are you?
337
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,175
Before Bobby's arrival, two years
ago, the significant other
338
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,295
in Katherine's life was her
daughter, Violet, now aged 13.
339
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,655
At a spa on the outskirts of London,
340
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,535
I was joining them for some
high-end pampering.
341
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,655
So I'm just going to pop
the sheet mask on.
342
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,455
It's going to feel slightly cold.
343
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,415
Ooh, there's something inside it!
344
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,135
VIOLET CH UCKLES
345
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,735
It feels a bit like I'm
delivering a calf.
346
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,615
LAUGHTER
347
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,135
I was aware, given Katherine and
Violet's closeness, that Bobby's
348
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,655
entering the scene had caused
ripples. I was curious to know more.
349
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,895
So what happened at the wedding?
350
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,975
The night before, Mum was like,
"Violet, wear something nice."
351
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,815
I was like, "No."
352
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,735
I wore bicycle shorts
and an oversized T-shirt.
353
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,615
Didn't brush my hair.
354
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,615
She sartorially objected.
355
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,375
It's like your version of a
dirty protest. Yeah!
356
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,775
So it wasn't like you were in
nappies and rubbing poo everywhere,
357
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,575
but the next best thing.
358
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,335
Because you didn't think the event
should be happening. Mm-hm.
359
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:30,695
You weren't happy about it.
I wasn't, but I did object.
360
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,575
I'd just start crying
361
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,735
and I'd go, "I object!" And then
I'd just keep crying.
362
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,895
But then they did a lovely
synchronised swim
363
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:46,295
in the rooftop pool, kind of two
hours after the ceremony.
364
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,535
Violet directed Bobby
in the choreography of this swim,
365
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,415
and then she wasn't mad
at him by that point.
366
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,735
Still mad at you, though.
You were still mad at me. Yeah.
367
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,255
For how long?
368
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,815
Like, a clay and a half. OK. Yeah.
369
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,615
I could take it. A clay and a half
for the rest of our lives.
370
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,415
Well, I had promised
you that I wasn't going
371
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,695
to have another boyfriend.
Yeah. And I had...
372
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,215
What a promise to make, though.
373
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,055
Like, it's one thing to be
in the moment and not have one,
374
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,855
but to say that won't happen
ever again,
375
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,575
what would lead you to do that?
376
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,015
I had reached this point
of realisation.
377
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,655
This epiphany came over me
where I went,
378
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:29,135
"I have had an amazing eight to ten
months without any men in our lives.
379
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:30,935
"We are happy on our own."
380
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,415
So I purchased sperm, frozen sperm
on fine
381
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,375
and we decorated our house just for
us, exactly the way we liked it,
382
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,815
and I went, "This is it, jackpot.
383
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,895
"We've reached, like, the pinnacle
of how happy I can be as a mom
384
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,575
"to you, and this is our family."
385
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,775
So I said, "I will never
have another new boyfriend."
386
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,255
Ancl Violet was like, "Great!"
387
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,495
Ancl I genuinely was not
looking at all.
388
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,375
I was blissfully happy.
389
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,055
But I think the universe knew that
Violet was soon going to slowly
390
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,335
move away from me into teenage hood,
391
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,295
and they'd better send me someone
for us both.
392
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,975
Here he is.
393
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,975
A little later, Bobby showed up.
394
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,015
A stroll in the grounds
of the spa was an opportunity
395
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,655
to hear his version of the romance.
396
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,055
Would you say you're a fan
of Katherine's comedy, Bobby?
397
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,735
Absolutely. I've always been.
Even teenager, like,
398
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,575
that's what kind of drew me to her.
399
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,255
We had so much fun and laughed.
She was funny in high school?
400
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,175
Absolutely. Yeah.
No-one else thought that.
401
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,255
No-one else thought so. I did.
402
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:39,575
So I kind of followed her comedy
a little bit throughout the years,
403
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,655
and then certainly a big fan.
Always have been.
404
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,375
That's kind of part of how we got
back together, because we didn't
405
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,975
interact on social media a lot.
406
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,215
I knew Bobby's sisters,
but he posted a clip of my stand-up
407
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,575
and I saw that, and I was like...
Which bit was it?
408
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,815
It was on James Corden.
409
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,695
It was about never wanting
a boyfriend. Yeah.
410
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,815
And I just said, like, "Congrats."
Yeah.
411
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,495
And some other... Whatever. I
forget what else I said. Something.
412
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,735
Something cute, it was a little bit.
It wasn't flirty.
413
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,335
It was, like, oblique enough. He
just said, "Oh, my celebrity crush,
414
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,495
"same as my first crush.
Congratulations."
415
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,775
Cos I was on like a US chat show
or something.
416
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,255
Ancl I was like... That's flirty.
How is that not flirty?
417
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,695
Well, we hadn't chatted really,
you know?
418
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,215
It was just like... You put,
"My celebrity crush,
419
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,895
"Same as my first crush."
420
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,575
But it's a laugh. That is
literally... Yeah, I can see how...
421
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,775
That is literally putting
it on the menu.
422
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,015
But then it got me... It got him
on my radar.
423
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,735
I was like, "Hmm." Course it did,
which is exactly what he wanted.
424
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,175
I always loved Bobby.
425
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,895
I feel like part of the magic
of our relationship now
426
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,455
is that I find myself,
like, still having a teenage
427
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,655
infatuation with him.
Like, I love him like...
428
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,855
...like a, like a teenager,
like a Romeo and Juliet.
429
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,255
Like, I'm obsessed with him
like a teenager. Really?
430
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,015
Can you feel it in your heart?
431
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,255
Lower. Lower'?
432
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,295
Yeah!
433
00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:59,735
THEY LAUGH
434
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,015
Yeah. I love him.
435
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,815
Right? We're out of that. We don't
want to hear about that, do we?
436
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,415
No, I do feel it in my heart.
Yes, I love Bobby.
437
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,175
TMI! Sorry, GUYS-
438
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,295
This is for a family audience.
Sorry, guys. Please!
439
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,975
Keep it clean, guys.
I'm just kidding.
440
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,815
SPEAKS IN FRENCH
441
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,695
Katherine was raised in Sarnia,
a small town in Canada, speaking
442
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,975
French at school and at least
one early performance.
443
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,535
Her dad, an Irish immigrant,
was an engineer.
444
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,455
Her mum, a computer programmer.
445
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,655
Later came university in Toronto
and a job as a waitress.
446
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,015
From the beginning, there was
a sense of not quite fitting in.
447
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,735
Were you always funny, growing up?
I was always odd, growing up.
448
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,695
I would come up against people
who really were confused by me.
449
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,535
They found me either offensive
or just strange or unpalatable.
450
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,375
You know, there was a beginning high
school period where I had, you know,
451
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,095
a gap between my teeth and I didn't
dress the way I was meant to
452
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:10,455
and I just was unattractive.
I don't know what.
453
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,255
Eventually, I changed the things
I could,
454
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:18,295
and puberty helped me to just
become visually more appealing
455
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,695
to these people.
But then my group in the later part
456
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,375
of high school were the cool girls.
457
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,175
But at that time, it was
very like nineties movies. Mm-hm.
458
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,015
Do you remember those movies
where it was cool to be mean? Mm-hm.
459
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,375
It was really, like, cool to be the
popular girls who were nasty,
460
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,855
so we acted like that.
461
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,255
You talk about a kid doing
a very earnest
462
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,255
guitar recital in class.
463
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,055
How cool is this?
464
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,095
This guy is doing the guitar solo.
465
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,135
He's, you know, been
mean to us before
466
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,575
because he's like what we
would call a skid.
467
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,495
Like, a skater boy.
But I turned around and I went...
468
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,535
Probably like this.
469
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,255
"Well, at least I'll have
a hobby in prison."
470
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,175
It was cool. It was funny.
Was that your line?
471
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,215
Ancl all my friends laughed.
Yes, it was my line.
472
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,655
It wasn't the meanest
thing I'd said.
473
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,215
I'd said... I had lots of one
liners. But I was just very good
474
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,695
at being a bitch if someone pushed
me the wrong way.
475
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,095
Yeah, I get it.
476
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:16,135
I feel like Hooters was quite
important for you.
477
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,335
Yeah. When people talk about their
school friends,
478
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:20,935
that was Hooters for me.
479
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,455
Like, I went to university
and I worked at Hooters.
480
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,295
Hooters is a bar and grill chain.
Mm-hm.
481
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,015
The Hooters, it refers to owls
but also breasts. Right.
482
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,695
And so that's the concept,
and it's all... I'm assuming
483
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,935
it's all female waitstaff, is it?
Mm-hm.
484
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,495
Wearing short shorts... Tight tops?
Yes.
485
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,775
But you don't... Anyway. Yeah.
486
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,695
You don't show your nipples. No.
487
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,615
No. You definitely don't do that.
488
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,695
Selling point!
You don't show your nipples!
489
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,375
That's always the rule.
490
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,655
What did it do for you?
491
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,295
I felt like it validated
that I was doing the role
492
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,175
that I wanted to do, being pretty
and being kind.
493
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,135
And, you know, if you're a Hooters
girl, then you're presumably,
494
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,455
like, for decoration.
And I wanted to be for decoration.
495
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,175
At that time, it was very
Britney Spears,
496
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,215
Christina Aguilera,
early noughties vibe.
497
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,055
I could see the type of woman
that the world wanted me
498
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,695
to be, and the type of woman
that was rewarded.
499
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,455
All the messaging in my life from
pop culture and everything else,
500
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,255
and even my mom -
she wouldn't say it.
501
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,975
My mom would say, "You're very smart
and you're very interesting."
502
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,615
You know, my mom said all
the right things, but lived
503
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,335
all the wrong body dysmorphia.
504
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,895
My mom was very glamorous
and very body conscious
505
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,935
and very eating-conscious
and everything else.
506
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,215
Ancl so I knew that it was
advantageous for a young women
507
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,935
to be really pretty, and I wanted
to be that.
508
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,535
And I'd be lying if I said I didn't.
509
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,135
Ancl so I worked at Hooters, and I
got more tanned
510
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:54,615
and I had white blonde hair.
511
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,575
Ancl I said, "I'll never get breast
implants working here, though.
512
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,495
"That's the line.
I just won't do that."
513
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,975
Ancl then one of my friends got
amazing breast implants
514
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,895
and I was like, "Oh, I'll get breast
implants. But only from that doctor.
515
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,295
"Yeah, I'll go get breast implants
next week." And I did.
516
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,455
Ancl I could afford them
because I worked at Hooters.
517
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:10,695
You made a good income? Yeah.
518
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,855
And you were getting into stand-up
around the same time?
519
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,855
You're meant to have some chat
at Hooters.
520
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,095
You're meant to be fun,
and you're meant to engage
521
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:19,575
the customer and talk to them a lot.
522
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,335
Ancl then we had bikini pageants, and
I did one bikini pageant and I won,
523
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,495
and I was excited about that.
Congratulations.
524
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,655
Thank you.
It was a long, long time ago.
525
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,935
Ancl then the second bikini pageant,
I just plucked up the courage
526
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,095
to be like, "I want to host
the bikini pageant."
527
00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,375
Ancl I didn't think about it
more than that, really.
528
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,695
I just went, "I want to hold
a microphone and wear a dress.
529
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,055
"I don't want to do the bikini."
530
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,855
Ancl the manager said yes. Maybe
because I was sleeping with him.
531
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,735
Ancl so then I got to host
the pageant, and I was funny
532
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,655
when I hosted the pageant. Well,
let's pause there, because you said
533
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,095
you were sleeping
with your boss, right?
534
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:54,615
You actually said to him... Yeah.
535
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,215
What did you say?
536
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:57,495
I think I said...
537
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,975
I think I said to him, "If I suck
your click, can I leave early?"
538
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,775
Something like that.
You really said that? Yeah.
539
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,695
But I liked him.
540
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,415
That's key.
541
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,535
He wasn't just some guy.
And what did he say?
542
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,135
He said, "Yes, you can."
543
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:16,055
"Course you can."
544
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,935
So then I sucked his click, and then
I left early. In the office? Yeah.
545
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,575
Ancl all the girls were...
546
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,295
Not ALL the girls, but several
of the girls had the same
547
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,655
arrangement, I think.
But think about it. Like, I'm going
548
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,735
to sound really pious now, but...
No, go ahead.
549
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,415
Someone who wants to leave early
but doesn't want to do that
550
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,375
isn't going to leave early. Right.
551
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,655
And so they're being, in a way,
they're the losers
552
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,615
in the transaction.
Am I missing the point?
553
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,975
Who's the loser? The one who can't
leave early because she's like,
554
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,215
"Well, I'm not going to give
you a blow job, but I still want
555
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,095
"to leave early." And he's like,
"Uh-uh, it doesn't work like that.
556
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,975
"You've got to tickle the pickle."
557
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,535
No, he would never say to someone,
though, like,
558
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,775
"You have to do
this if you want to leave early."
559
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,175
Looking back on it, do
you have the same view of it now
560
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,415
or do you feel maybe
he should have said,
561
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,015
"No, that's totally inappropriate"?
562
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,535
It's tricky because we were all
very close friends
563
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,135
and I really did like him.
I had a crush on him.
564
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,255
I have never sucked the click of
anyone I didn't like
565
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,535
at the time, ever. I think, erm...
566
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,975
If, um... OK, I was just worried
if you... If my husband
567
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,815
or the baby come in, they both know
the story already, so don't worry.
568
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,815
Thank you. What, you told the baby young?
Told it in front of him, and he was listening.
569
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,535
He's 15 months. Mm-hm.
570
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,495
LOUIS SNORTS
We don't censor ourselves.
571
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,575
I don't think he would
have understood that much.
572
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,935
Just in case, though.
I'd be worried... Yeah.
573
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,135
...if the baby was like,
"You sucked off who?"
574
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,935
CHUCKLING
Yeah.
575
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,375
If we zoom out, it kind of goes
to the heart of, I suppose,
576
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,815
a big question within feminism,
right? About female power
577
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:56,815
and to what extent using sexuality
is powerful or not powerful, right?
578
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,255
It's so tricky.
579
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,095
Ancl I feel like the journey
for feminism in general
580
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,655
and for each feminist
is not a linear one.
581
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,935
Ancl we all deserve, like, grace
for being young
582
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,975
and for being, like... Trying to
figure it out and receiving messages
583
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,135
and how to translate those messages
into positive behaviour.
584
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,935
And I mean, I would be lying
if I said I didn't feel happy
585
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,775
and cared for and empowered,
working at Hooters.
586
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,975
But I think you've said
that you get a lot of criticism
587
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,175
from within the feminist community.
588
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,815
People say that I can't be
a feminist
589
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,415
because I get plastic surgery,
or I worked at Hooters,
590
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,615
or because I present
very, like, feminine sometimes.
591
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,975
But I mean, I just don't...
I don't really mind.
592
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,455
CHILD GURGLES
Hi, Fred! Look out.
593
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,655
He can come.
594
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,575
Trouble's coming. Mama.
595
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,535
Fred, you want a cuddle? Wow.
596
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,775
Hi! What a cutie.
597
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,855
Hi. You want to say hello?
Oh! What a cutie.
598
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,775
Oh! This is Louis.
599
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,735
Can you say "Hi, Louis"?
How are you doing?
600
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,975
I was talking about a place
I worked called Hooters.
601
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,935
You can come here if you want.
Uh-oh! Uh-oh! I know.
602
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,575
Isn't it crazy?
Look at all this stuff.
603
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,855
Go find your digger.
Where is it?
604
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,495
Where's the digger?
605
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,055
Where's the dig-dig-digger?
Digger.
606
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,895
Aaah!
607
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,615
He's so sweet.
608
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,575
Katherine Ryan is someone special
from Canada.
609
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,775
APPLAUSE
Thank you.
610
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,575
I am from Canada.
611
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,815
Are you all...
Yeah! Are you from Canada?
612
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,215
You just like Canadians?
613
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,135
I'll change that.
614
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,455
Katherine pursued comedy
as a profession
615
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,295
only once she'd moved to London.
616
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:46,935
I am pregnant. Yay!
617
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,055
Thank you. That's the same reaction
my parents had.
618
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,215
Combining gigging with life
as a single mum to Violet,
619
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,015
she found her voice on stage.
620
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,055
But it was also around this time
that she ran into problems
621
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,095
in her private life.
622
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:09,175
One of the most striking things
about your journey is how, at a time
623
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,615
when you were speaking out
from a place of power, on stage,
624
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,255
in your own life, you began seeing
a guy who, by the sounds of it,
625
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,055
was extremely toxic.
626
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,655
I know.
627
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,335
And I found it quite disturbing
and extraordinary
628
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,215
to read about, if I'm honest.
629
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,735
Yeah, it is kind of disturbing now,
but it surprised me,
630
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,495
because at the time,
I really normalised all of it.
631
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,495
He's called, in the book,
The Overlap.
632
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,175
The Overlap. And he was someone
you began seeing while you were
633
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,015
kind of fizzling out with
the relationship with the father
634
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,095
of your daughter. Which is
another... Hence "The Overlap".
635
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,335
...reason it's a bad time
to make a decision.
636
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,175
Any time you're in a vulnerable
position, it's a really bad time
637
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,935
to get into a new relationship.
638
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,055
I had lots of anxiety back then,
lots of feelings of inadequacy.
639
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,255
I'd moved to a different country,
far away from my family,
640
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,255
had a grandchild
that they never got to see.
641
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,895
Ancl I was going to have to go back
home to my small town with my tail
642
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,135
between my legs when everyone
expected a lot from me.
643
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,455
My parents always expected
a lot from me.
644
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:18,455
I felt so low about myself and I let
myself meet this random dude
645
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,735
on a train who insisted
that I take my headphones out.
646
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,615
And my initial reaction
upon meeting this Overlap was like,
647
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,775
what an asshole! Fuck off!
648
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,855
Was he very good looking?
649
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:31,975
No.
650
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,055
I just...
651
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,415
All of a sudden, someone was
very interested in me.
652
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,135
Very, very interested in me.
653
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:46,495
Really romantic and kind of made me
feel like, oh, you know,
654
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,815
maybe this isn't the end
of my romantic life,
655
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,255
and I'm not damaged goods
for being a single mum,
656
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,815
and I can date this exciting
musician guy.
657
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,615
Ancl then, he started treating me
quite badly
658
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,215
and being very controlling
and getting really upset
659
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,815
when I had any success, which
I incidentally started to have.
660
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:09,095
He was also openly pursuing other
physical relationships, right?
661
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,215
He invented a character,
662
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:13,615
which he didn't signpost
as a character.
663
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,375
Called? Adam Diablo.
664
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,975
So every time he went out,
665
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,855
"Oh, Adam Diablo shagged this girl
in the loos.
666
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,535
"Oh, Adam Diablo was there again."
667
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,055
Like, why have I never met
this Adam Diablo?
668
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,735
But then I learned through time.
You didn't...
669
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,055
Your spider senses didn't tingle
at that point?
670
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,575
What's great about dating
a working single mother
671
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,495
is they don't have loads of time
to concentrate on what you are doing
672
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,895
or if you're lying
or check your phone.
673
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,335
He could be really lovely.
We'd have really lovely moments.
674
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,415
Those moments became fewer
and far between, but I thought,
675
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,255
he's treated me badly
and he's humiliated me
676
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:49,495
in all of these ways,
677
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,415
but if we can be a family
and I can turn it all around,
678
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,935
it's like none of that
ever happened.
679
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,055
Ancl everyone will say,
"Wow, Katherine!"
680
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,615
It's almost a form of narcissism for
me to be like, "I can change him."
681
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,055
Like...
And then one time, you woke up...
682
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,855
Yeah. ..and what happened?
683
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,295
It's quite extreme.
684
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,095
But I just woke up...
685
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,135
Is this on the BBC? Really?
686
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,815
OK. BBC Two. Oh, BBC TWO.
687
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,095
Then I woke up with cum all over me
and I said, "What is this?"
688
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,695
Ancl he said, "Oh, I thought
it would be sexy to masturbate
689
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:29,495
"on you in the night.
I took all these photos as well."
690
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,295
He took so many, like, very explicit
photos of himself.
691
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,415
He always wanted, like, adoration
and praise,
692
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,135
constantly, constantly, constantly.
693
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,895
And if I ever questioned him
or, like, God forbid, ignored him,
694
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,215
then he was really upset.
695
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:45,975
How did it come to an end?
696
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,975
It was just like an epiphany at some
point that I went,
697
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,935
"Oh, this guy just is horrible and I
just don't want to be with him any more."
698
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,655
I don't know. I think it was about
699
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,455
hearing myself say
enough times on stage
700
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,055
that I knew his behaviour was wrong
because even when I didn't live out
701
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,135
this strength in my real life,
I was able to take situations
702
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,375
from my real life and talk
about them on stage
703
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,055
with a different ending.
704
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,615
And I would say, "Oh, my God,
this guy did this and this,
705
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,735
"and here's what I said,"
but I never actually said
706
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,015
that I was still with this guy.
707
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,895
But I heard myself say it on stage
enough times and it convinced me,
708
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,015
like, "Wait, you know what to do,
you're just not doing it."
709
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,695
So in a way, your comedy brain
was smarter
710
00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:32,175
than your normal brain, right?
711
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,175
Oh, my comedy...
Or more emotionally intuitive.
712
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,375
My comedy brain is more smart
and emotionally intuitive
713
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,735
than my normal brain, for sure.
714
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,135
All right.
715
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,335
In a small comedy club in London's
Covent Garden, Katherine was doing
716
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,535
a short unannounced spot.
717
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,975
Everyone's performed here,
is what I'm getting.
718
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,855
Yeah! Right?
719
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,975
Is this like a holy space of comedy?
720
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,055
It's a good one.
721
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,335
It's got a very quintessential
stand-up comedy club vibe,
722
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:08,615
doesn't it?
723
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,935
Tiny, tiny stage. Yeah.
724
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,495
Tiny.
725
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,615
One, two, one, two.
726
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,095
Is this part of the process
of generating new material?
727
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,735
Going to open mic nights
certainly is part of the process
728
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,255
of generating new material.
729
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,895
Ideally, you would write some ideas
long before you arrive,
730
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,575
and I don't have anything -
like, I've just written this now.
731
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,455
It sounds like you're under prepared.
I'm totally under prepared.
732
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,615
But, like, this is what you have to
do also, I think, is make yourself
733
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,455
uncomfortable and bomb -
like, I'm prepared to bomb.
734
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,015
I don't mind.
735
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,615
For me, it was a chance to see
Katherine in workshop mode.
736
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,495
I'd come along for an insight
into her creative process.
737
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:54,135
I haven't clone an open mic gig
in three years.
738
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,615
SHE EXHALES
And 'R's not that I'm nervous.
739
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,735
I'm just, like, bewildered, like,
what am I going to say to these kids?
740
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,655
What I'm hearing from you
more and more is a kind of
741
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,655
domestic happiness and a generosity
of spirit and a real love
742
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,375
that you and your husband have.
743
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,055
Yeah. I don't know where to go
from here.
744
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,575
I just don't know what's next.
745
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,255
But I really do love my husband.
746
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,575
He could do no wrong in my life.
Like, I just love him.
747
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,375
Weird! Don't say that on stage.
748
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:21,695
Why? Not funny.
749
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:23,095
No, it's not.
750
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,535
But like I'm just telling you,
this is why I'm not funny!
751
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,255
I need him to cheat on me.
752
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,055
This has got to go bad.
753
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,535
This has got to go bad if I'm ever
going to be funny again.
754
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:39,375
I mean, I had some material about
my horse was a sex offender.
755
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,055
Have you done this in a bit before?
756
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,735
No, but it's just true
about my life.
757
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,215
That's quite good, I think.
758
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,135
Louis, I don't think that I can come
into a comedy club
759
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:53,615
where ZO-year-olds facing an energy
crisis are gathering on a Wednesday
760
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,015
and talk to them about the stables
761
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,495
and my problems with my sex offender
son, who's a horse.
762
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:03,455
INDISTINCT CHATTER
763
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,175
Scream and shout, please,
for Katherine Ryan!
764
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,655
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
765
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,855
Oh, my God! Thank you so much.
766
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,935
It's so nice to see you here. Gosh!
What is, like, the normal age...?
767
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,895
Like, give me a cheer
if you're in your twenties.
768
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,975
CHEERING
769
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,895
We have nothing in common any more.
770
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,255
LAUGHTER
Oh, no!
771
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,215
I don't know how I can relate
to you guys.
772
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:38,615
Like, I'm married
and I'm really old now.
773
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,375
I feel like I'm almost 40.
774
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,455
Also, I have a heated swimming pool
and no real problems.
775
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,375
LAUGHTER
776
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,695
I was trying to think about material
that you would identify with,
777
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:51,855
and I was like, "Oh, well,
I had a problem with a horse
778
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,495
"down at the stables."
779
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,495
LAUGHTER
780
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,415
Let me just try it.
781
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,895
When your horse is misbehaving
782
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,015
and you get a call from the stables.
Am I right?
783
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,895
I'd been concerned Katherine was
going on without much to work with,
784
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,055
but I needn't have been.
785
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,375
I don't worry about being cancel led
at all, because if I'm cancel led,
786
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,175
it'll be for a joke I told
a long time ago.
787
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,295
Like, ten years ago.
788
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:17,615
And when they pf int the story,
789
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,135
they'll have to use a photo of me
from ten years ago.
790
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,695
LAUGHTER
791
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,535
Seasoned over many hours of
stage time, Katherine's ability
792
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,215
to work a crowd was never in doubt.
793
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,175
I don't know
if I'm having a boy or a girl.
794
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,935
Why don't you grow up
and be more woke?
795
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,775
You don't know if you're a boy
or a girl.
796
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,495
I don't know if I'm a boy or a girl.
797
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,575
I don't see gender. just race.
798
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,255
No...
LAUGHTER
799
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,055
Her natural presence and quick wit
keeping total control over the room.
800
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,415
Thank you so much for having me.
801
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,855
I'll see you soon.
Please look after yourselves.
802
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,935
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
803
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:04,175
I think what's distinctive
about your comedy is,
804
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,735
among other things, is the sense
of just owning your power.
805
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,855
You just look like you belong
there on stage.
806
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,935
I feel like it's really relaxing
being on stage.
807
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:17,615
It's exciting, I like it.
808
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,455
And, um... Now my life is busy,
809
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,415
my, like, home life is always
really busy.
810
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,335
Ancl when you're on stage, I just
find it a place where, like...
811
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,655
I don't know.
812
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,495
I don't know if I go into, like,
a trance.
813
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,175
I just like it. I think
it's relaxing.
814
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,535
It feels like you're maybe
slightly in a trance?
815
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,415
Like a fugue state, almost?
Maybe... What's fugue?
816
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,055
It's that feeling of no...
sort of no future, no past.
817
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,335
Yes! Oh, that's called fugue?
818
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,055
Well, fugue state is technically
when you're in almost, like,
819
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,855
a moment of amnesia.
820
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,375
Right? I think. I like that.
821
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,335
This is what it is.
822
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,775
As much as my stand-up is dick jokes
and everything else, I really want
823
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:04,935
people to feel, like, infected
by my genuine, like, peace...
824
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,735
...contentment with life,
825
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,775
and I think that I've had different
lives where I made
826
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,295
really bad choices
and I was really vulnerable,
827
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,175
and I was a terrible example
of a feminist,
828
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,015
and then, just through...
829
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,735
...sheer, like, luck and gratitude
and changing the way
830
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,455
I thought about things,
831
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,935
I started to have a wonderful life.
832
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,255
Ancl I do have a wonderful,
peaceful life.
833
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,335
I think a lot of comedy
has been about
834
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,335
advertising your failures,
your failings.
835
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,895
It seems to me yours
isn't about that.
836
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,575
And it's something maybe
more interesting.
837
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,575
There's no cringing,
there's no apology.
838
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,055
Even your face...
It's not expressionless,
839
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,855
but there's a certain aloofness,
would you say?
840
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,215
Sure.
I feel like I'm talking too much.
841
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:55,615
No. Am I mansplaining?
842
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,535
Not at all,
because you just taught me fugue.
843
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,135
You might teach me something else.
844
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:01,695
Do you know about feminism?
845
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:03,295
It's very exciting.
846
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,415
I don't think I do know
about feminism,
847
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,255
because I keep changing it
every clay.
848
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,735
And that was me being ironic.
849
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,655
That could get me in trouble.
850
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,015
Thank you so much for coming today.
851
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:17,495
Let's get Fred in.
852
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,335
Eeh-oh!
853
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:21,655
Yeah! Is he a good sleeper?
854
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,775
Are you a good sleeper?
He's getting better.
855
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,095
FRED GURGLES
856
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:27,775
That's not the answer
I was expecting.
857
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,375
Is he in your bed?
858
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,655
He is in bed with me, yeah,
and Bobby.
859
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,055
In preparation for having
TWO of them in bed with us!
860
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,695
Nice. So that's how you'll work it?
There'll be four of you in the bed.
861
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:39,975
He's huge, too.
862
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,855
He weighs as much as
a cooker spaniel.
863
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,615
To quote jaws, "We're going to need
a bigger bed."
864
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,775
FRED SHOUTS