This program me contains some strong language
I like to disappoint visitors. You know, they come in the house, they see a photoshopped, thinner,
younger version of you. You're pregnant now,
that's the only difference. Something happened to me. I swear.
I looked like that just, like, a few years ago. Mmm.
Ancl all my, like, good-looking hormones moved to the front
of the line. But as soon as I got married... I've been pregnant
solidly since then, and I started looking like this.
They were like, "job done." Yeah. They're like, "Oh, forget it."
Ancl then everyone's like, "Well, Katherine's really clone a number with plastic surgery." No.
I've clone absolutely nothing but get on the wrong side of 35.
That's all that's happened. You look great, by the way.
You look great, Louis. But what I've clone is... Do I?
You're not allowed to get Botox when you're pregnant.
So that's what's happened. Yeah, you do. I wish.
Did you meet the clogs? I think I did, yeah.
OK. Do we just sit down?
Katherine Ryan is one of the most successful and outspoken comedians
working in the UK.
Here we go. This is going to be interesting.
I mean, I'm fine with it.
I can lock them up if you want but then they might cry.
Who knew that I was so popular in the dog community?
Sorry about this, but I really think it'll keep the animals
out of your hair. Here you go.
For a few days, she'd allowed me a glimpse of the private person
behind her provocative material.
So if they should come into frame, you want us to take them out?
Take them out.
On the Essex coast, I had an appointment to see some comedy.
Here she is.
Welcome... Hey! ..to South end-on-Sea.
Nice to see you. Hey. Nice to see you in civilian clothing.
I know. It's so humanising. I didn't even cheat.
I didn't even do, like, half make-up.
Have you been to South end before? Been to South end loads. Have you?
Hi! Look at that.
Hi, girls. There we are, on camera. jeez.
Skewing very female.
Katherine was doing one of the final dates of her latest tour
around Europe and the UK.
May I? Can we? Should we? Dare we?
We see so many exciting dressing rooms in our travels.
How does this rate on the dressing room-ometer?
I mean, it's not bad.
Ta-da! So glamorous.
I always wear a headband.
I feel like it completes the look.
Here we go. How's it looking out there? It's good.
They've just opened doors. What's the vibe? It's Friday night,
it's South end so anything cold happen.
Anything can happen. I forgot it's Friday.
Yeah. Friday. Apparently, David Essex last night.
Are you serious? A few fisticuffs.
Really? Oh, no!
For real or are you just...? No, seriously.
I was just talking to the venue. David or the fans? I think the fans.
Ta-da. Hello. Wow.
You look sensational. I look like the Statue of Liberty in drag,
and I don't see how that's a bad thing. Pretty accurate.
That's the look I'm going for, every clay. What's the timer?
Very unprofessionally I bring this on stage.
To see how long you're on stage for? Yeah. It's already started.
You've started the meter. Well, we're three minutes late.
Time is money.
I want to be more like British girls.
I want to be more like you and less Canadian, barf.
That's where I'm from. So I've stopped saying hi to strangers.
I've started getting drunk and fucking them.
Katherine arrived in the UK 15 years ago and has gone on to become
one of the hardest-working and most bankable stand-ups in the country.
I loved being pregnant, though.
People ask you all those baby questions, don't they?
"Oh, what's it going to be like? Who's it going to look like?"
And you give a standard baby answer, right? "We don't care as long as it's..."
AUDIENCE: Healthy. "..not gay." Exactly right.
With two Netflix specials and a near ubiquitous TV presence,
she brings a style, both glamorous and foul-mouthed...
DROWNED OUT BY APPLAUSE
...speaking on issues like celebrity, female power and family.
My sister's genuinely just had a baby and named him Dick.
When I want to see pictures of him, I'll text my mom and be like,
"Mom, you got any Dick pics for me?"
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
Hello, South end. Thank you so much for being here.
CHEERING
Her most recent show, titled Missus,
describes how she found love and contentment with an old flame.
Now, we can't stress this enough, guys. I was not looking.
They say don't go food shopping hungry.
Don't go man shopping thirsty.
LAUGHTER
He's only 5'11 which isn't even small.
But guess what? He's seven feet standing on his click, bitch, so.
LAUGHTER
So!
But Katherine's journey hasn't all been easy.
There have been personal challenges and controversy.
At her home in far North London,
I sat down with her to discuss her life and craft.
Thank you for having me. You're not supposed to say that, I learned.
Why not? It means we had sex. Oh.
You must never say thank you for having me cos it means you had me.
So I never say that. Thank you for letting me into your...
...home?
Your ass? There we go. In some access.
I'll try not to say anything like that. It doesn't sound right
coming from me. So how's it all going?
Like ,| have the feeling that you're really, really busy
in a good way. You've got a lot going on personally,
obviously, a baby on its way, but also professionally,
like a million projects.
What we were told was there's basically two days this month
when Katherine's not working and that included weekends, I think.
Yeah, I pretty much work every clay.
Ancl certainly since Fred was born 15 months ago,
I've worked almost every clay.
I started back at work when he was eight clays old. Eight days old.
It wasn't very long ago that I was on the poverty line
in this country and I worked at an office job.
And there was a time when people didn't ask me to go and do comedy
for the day and earn a tonne of money that I didn't deserve.
So now, if anyone is ever like,
"There's a bunch of money over there, do you want to go get it?"
I'll go, "Yeah." Mmm. Yeah. I feel like it's almost rude to say no.
What about adverts? I like adverts.
Have you done many? I've clone some adverts.
I've turned some down. Because of ethics or too busy
or just... Never too busy because adverts pay loads of money.
I'm never too busy for loads of money.
There's the quote.
I'm not. I'm not.
You have a show at the moment called Missus that you're touring,
which has had amazing reviews. Did you know that?
People were enjoying a version of you on stage that felt maybe
a little closer to the real you and was maybe in certain respects
less provocative, less edgy, if that makes sense.
Well, I didn't see that, but I saw a headline that said "Softer."
Well, I was trying not to say softer. You can say it.
But that jumped out to me because I am definitely aware
that for a long time people would have this idea
that I wasn't kind or I wasn't soft.
The show's not softer at all.
It just happens to be that the things that are significant
in my life right now are things like I've had a baby
and I really love this man all of a sudden, but it's spun
on this axis of, like, hypocrisy. I go, I know I've let you down.
I stomped around and I said,
I got to empower a nation of young feminists and say,
"You don't need a man." Ancl then I cashed in those chips
and got married like a stupid whore. So it's not terribly soft.
It's still got me all over it. I was just wrong about myself
and what I wanted and what I thought my life was going to be.
In 2019, Katherine reunited with her Canadian high school sweetheart,
Bobby Kootstra.
He moved to London to live with her and her daughter Violet.
Two years later, a son, Fred, came along.
Here he is. Hello. Come on. Let's say hello to Bobby.
How are you doing? Good. Nice to meet you. You too. Yeah, yeah.
Thanks for coming by now. Thanks for having us. Where's baby?
Baby's asleep, I'm just coming to get the screen... Oh!
I'm going to get the camera hooked up. Yeah. Nice one.
Nice to meet you, Bobby.
We have some sliders because the grass a bit wet.
Oh, well, that's a nice idea. Do they fit you?
I could get you... Pretty much. Cute. Cute, cute.
So we didn't have a pool when we first moved here.
Ancl then Bobby got together with this amazing company and dug a hole,
and he loved the hole. He sat in the hole.
He put a little lawn chair in the hole. Bobby did? Yeah.
I couldn't find him sometimes. Ancl he'd just be down that hole.
So Bobby helped put this in? Yeah. So he's handy.
Canadian men know how to do a lot of stuff.
Course they do, they're real men.
So Bobby was my high school boyfriend, and I loved him so much.
Yeah. But then I saw him again very randomly, um, January 2019.
And then... Was that when you were filming?
When I was filming Who Do You Think You Are in Canada.
Shagged him, cos I thought it'd be funny to do.
Ancl he thought it would be funny. Ancl I was not... It was not in my
personality to do, that as much as I let on, like, I'm loads of fun,
I'd never had a one-night stand and I still haven't.
In your whole life? My whole life.
I just thought, oh, that will be funny.
I'd been single for, like, almost a year.
Ancl then we got married, like, eight months later. Isn't that lovely?
The story of reuniting with your long lost high school sweetheart
20 years on, and finding out that he's the man of your dreams
and that every part of it that you thought was a missed opportunity
or maybe romanticised in hindsight... Yeah.
...in fact, it was all real. Well, it was. That's so lovely.
So far. But I got a lot of people holding out for the divorce
they want to see. They want to see this end badly for me. Like who?
Just people... Trolls? Yeah.
They're like, "You'll have egg on your face." Maybe.
You have a joke in your new show, I think saying he fell in love
with you when you when he saw your house. Yeah.
Ancl I say that because that's what people want me to say.
They want me to be aware that he might be using me for money.
But in reality, when he came to London, I hadn't bought the house.
Really? I lived in a flat.
So you played into the... whatever that is, the stereotype
or the prejudice because it is funny. It's fun for people.
Yeah. I don't want to spoil their fun.
Like, if it's fun for people to think that Bobby's using me
for money and they've had loads of plastic surgery and this and that,
then that's great that I know that and then I use that cos my job
is to make them laugh. I don't care if I'm the punch line at all,
at all, cos I get to live here and I have the pool.
Do you know what I mean? Like, what? I don't understand being precious
about that stuff, but then that gets me in trouble sometimes
cos I'll assume that everyone's that way.
Ancl then so when I do roast comedy or that type of thing,
or sometimes I'll say something about a celebrity
and it can be misconstrued, then I feel badly cos I don't actually
want to hurt people's feelings. I forget that people have feelings
that I don't have. What do you mean that you don't have?
Like, if someone had a really good joke about me, I would love it.
I don't care what most people think.
To not care at all about what anyone thinks, you would...
I would worry that it's almost like sort of slightly sociopathic.
I've worried about that, too. Do you know what I mean?
Because actually isn't part of our morality
created by a sense of feeling ashamed when...
...when there's a shame... You know,
when there's a shame attached to something.
It's my preference that people like me.
But if they don't like, I just don't mind. I don't.
But I have questioned that, I've gone, why don't I mind at all?
Ancl you know how everyone has some varying degree of neuro diversion
now that they're self diagnosing with? Of course, yeah.
I'm like, maybe I have, like, a version of autism
where I don't care about that. Ancl then I went, probably not.
Cos we're on the subject, you have told jokes over the years
that came in for criticism. One in particular, you've mentioned
where it was a joke the Filipino community took amiss. Yeah.
And you had death threats.
The way it sounded was that an entire nation, basically,
was up in arms about what they saw as a racist joke.
The joke was on a show where you had to play a game
and fill in a blank. Ancl the game was,
"Name something that's unlikely to hear from a cosmetics company."
So I said, "We don't test our products on animals.
"We use Filipino children instead."
So it's a pull back and reveal joke about like, "We're so great,
"we're so biased, but we're actually doing something much worse."
Ancl that is a joke at the expense of big industries and, you know,
lab our laws and stuff. It's not a joke about Filipino children,
but I knew what I was doing. I think if you can stand behind what you say
and you know what it means... Cos you'll be misunderstood
or you be wilfully misunderstood, I wasn't that upset about it,
all things considered, I wasn't, even though I was young,
cos I knew...| knew what I was trying to say.
Did Bobby put this up as well? Yeah, but don't go from too far.
Is this good? Really slams at the end.
So you'll go up and you have to hold on. And then this is your legal
disclaimer. This is my legal disclaimer.
I didn't hear any of what you just said.
I heard you say it's fine and it's perfectly safe. just hold on.
"The nation goes into mourning tonight
"with news the documentary legend
"Louis Theroux has died in a bizarre..." You've had all the kids
you want to have, right? "..at the house of comedian Katherine Ryan."
Just hold on.
YEP, yep. Good, g00d_
Do you think you can be cancel led? Like, is that a real thing?
Or if you decide, like, "I don't really care what you say.
"And if a few of my gigs dry up, I'll just find some other gigs"?
Hmm. I don't know.
I think you can be cancel led, like, if you...
...accuse too many men of sexual assault.
Ancl then you're labelled a troublemaker... Right.
...people won't book you any more.
I think it's more quiet disappearing than cancellation.
You were in the papers recently for saying that there was a predator.
Was that the term that you had worked with?
And that you'd informed the employers that he was a predator,
right? I didn't inform employers.
I informed him to his face... Oh, him. ..that he was a predator.
When we say predator, what do you mean?
I mean...
I think I mean a perpetrator of sexual assault.
But it is very dangerous for us to have this conversation.
I'm happy to have it... Why? ..but it is a litigious minefield.
Cos lots of people have tried to nail this person down
for their alleged crimes.
Ancl this person has very good lawyers.
So am I going to put my mortgage on the line by saying who this person
is or, like, entering into any conversations like that?
We've seen what happens to people who talk about alleged predators.
I mean, it's not really my story to tell.
No-one has perpetrated any sexual assaults against me.
But this person, I believe very strongly - so do a lot of people
believe very strongly, it's an open secret - is a perpetrator
of sexual assault. And I in front of loads of people in the format of the
show said to this person's face that they were a predator.
You said on the show? Loads of times.
Not backstage? No.
Again and again.
But... Did they... Did they keep that in the episode?
No.
Which is fine.
It's fine. I still got paid and I still did my job,
but I did it in my way that I felt was fair.
This is what we talk about.
This is what female comics and probably actresses and women
in my industry talk about all the time, because that's the safest
way for us to talk about it.
I didn't tell any employer or blow a whistle or do anything at all.
I handled it, for lack of a better term, like a man. Mm-hm.
Ancl said it to his face. Did you get some criticism for that?
I got criticism for not naming who it was after the fact
when I spoke about the original show, yes.
Is there a chance that the allegations are not well sourced
and that it would be irresponsible on that level?
No. Because they're too credible?
Yeah, they're really credible.
But also...
SHE SIGHS
...every time these things are eventually proven
and you look at Bill Cosby and you look at Harvey Weinstein
and you look at the unmentionable British personality,
everybody knew. And they go, "Well, everybody knew."
I'll say jimmy Savile.
I'll be the one who says it. Yeah, you know him best. Mm-hm.
But, yeah. So, I mean, I didn't mean to cause, like, a stir about it.
No. I just do... I say things as they are.
Come on, then.
What's this one called, Katherine?
Manny.
Don't be afraid.
There's nothing to be afraid of.
Hello. Hello!
I love it - matching outfits.
If you'd told me, I would have worn pink too!
Nice to see you. How are you?
Before Bobby's arrival, two years ago, the significant other
in Katherine's life was her daughter, Violet, now aged 13.
At a spa on the outskirts of London,
I was joining them for some high-end pampering.
So I'm just going to pop the sheet mask on.
It's going to feel slightly cold.
Ooh, there's something inside it!
VIOLET CH UCKLES
It feels a bit like I'm delivering a calf.
LAUGHTER
I was aware, given Katherine and Violet's closeness, that Bobby's
entering the scene had caused ripples. I was curious to know more.
So what happened at the wedding?
The night before, Mum was like, "Violet, wear something nice."
I was like, "No."
I wore bicycle shorts and an oversized T-shirt.
Didn't brush my hair.
She sartorially objected.
It's like your version of a dirty protest. Yeah!
So it wasn't like you were in nappies and rubbing poo everywhere,
but the next best thing.
Because you didn't think the event should be happening. Mm-hm.
You weren't happy about it. I wasn't, but I did object.
I'd just start crying
and I'd go, "I object!" And then I'd just keep crying.
But then they did a lovely synchronised swim
in the rooftop pool, kind of two hours after the ceremony.
Violet directed Bobby in the choreography of this swim,
and then she wasn't mad at him by that point.
Still mad at you, though. You were still mad at me. Yeah.
For how long?
Like, a clay and a half. OK. Yeah.
I could take it. A clay and a half for the rest of our lives.
Well, I had promised you that I wasn't going
to have another boyfriend. Yeah. And I had...
What a promise to make, though.
Like, it's one thing to be in the moment and not have one,
but to say that won't happen ever again,
what would lead you to do that?
I had reached this point of realisation.
This epiphany came over me where I went,
"I have had an amazing eight to ten months without any men in our lives.
"We are happy on our own."
So I purchased sperm, frozen sperm on fine
and we decorated our house just for us, exactly the way we liked it,
and I went, "This is it, jackpot.
"We've reached, like, the pinnacle of how happy I can be as a mom
"to you, and this is our family."
So I said, "I will never have another new boyfriend."
Ancl Violet was like, "Great!"
Ancl I genuinely was not looking at all.
I was blissfully happy.
But I think the universe knew that Violet was soon going to slowly
move away from me into teenage hood,
and they'd better send me someone for us both.
Here he is.
A little later, Bobby showed up.
A stroll in the grounds of the spa was an opportunity
to hear his version of the romance.
Would you say you're a fan of Katherine's comedy, Bobby?
Absolutely. I've always been. Even teenager, like,
that's what kind of drew me to her.
We had so much fun and laughed. She was funny in high school?
Absolutely. Yeah. No-one else thought that.
No-one else thought so. I did.
So I kind of followed her comedy a little bit throughout the years,
and then certainly a big fan. Always have been.
That's kind of part of how we got back together, because we didn't
interact on social media a lot.
I knew Bobby's sisters, but he posted a clip of my stand-up
and I saw that, and I was like... Which bit was it?
It was on James Corden.
It was about never wanting a boyfriend. Yeah.
And I just said, like, "Congrats." Yeah.
And some other... Whatever. I forget what else I said. Something.
Something cute, it was a little bit. It wasn't flirty.
It was, like, oblique enough. He just said, "Oh, my celebrity crush,
"same as my first crush. Congratulations."
Cos I was on like a US chat show or something.
Ancl I was like... That's flirty. How is that not flirty?
Well, we hadn't chatted really, you know?
It was just like... You put, "My celebrity crush,
"Same as my first crush."
But it's a laugh. That is literally... Yeah, I can see how...
That is literally putting it on the menu.
But then it got me... It got him on my radar.
I was like, "Hmm." Course it did, which is exactly what he wanted.
I always loved Bobby.
I feel like part of the magic of our relationship now
is that I find myself, like, still having a teenage
infatuation with him. Like, I love him like...
...like a, like a teenager, like a Romeo and Juliet.
Like, I'm obsessed with him like a teenager. Really?
Can you feel it in your heart?
Lower. Lower'?
Yeah!
THEY LAUGH
Yeah. I love him.
Right? We're out of that. We don't want to hear about that, do we?
No, I do feel it in my heart. Yes, I love Bobby.
TMI! Sorry, GUYS-
This is for a family audience. Sorry, guys. Please!
Keep it clean, guys. I'm just kidding.
SPEAKS IN FRENCH
Katherine was raised in Sarnia, a small town in Canada, speaking
French at school and at least one early performance.
Her dad, an Irish immigrant, was an engineer.
Her mum, a computer programmer.
Later came university in Toronto and a job as a waitress.
From the beginning, there was a sense of not quite fitting in.
Were you always funny, growing up? I was always odd, growing up.
I would come up against people who really were confused by me.
They found me either offensive or just strange or unpalatable.
You know, there was a beginning high school period where I had, you know,
a gap between my teeth and I didn't dress the way I was meant to
and I just was unattractive. I don't know what.
Eventually, I changed the things I could,
and puberty helped me to just become visually more appealing
to these people. But then my group in the later part
of high school were the cool girls.
But at that time, it was very like nineties movies. Mm-hm.
Do you remember those movies where it was cool to be mean? Mm-hm.
It was really, like, cool to be the popular girls who were nasty,
so we acted like that.
You talk about a kid doing a very earnest
guitar recital in class.
How cool is this?
This guy is doing the guitar solo.
He's, you know, been mean to us before
because he's like what we would call a skid.
Like, a skater boy. But I turned around and I went...
Probably like this.
"Well, at least I'll have a hobby in prison."
It was cool. It was funny. Was that your line?
Ancl all my friends laughed. Yes, it was my line.
It wasn't the meanest thing I'd said.
I'd said... I had lots of one liners. But I was just very good
at being a bitch if someone pushed me the wrong way.
Yeah, I get it.
I feel like Hooters was quite important for you.
Yeah. When people talk about their school friends,
that was Hooters for me.
Like, I went to university and I worked at Hooters.
Hooters is a bar and grill chain. Mm-hm.
The Hooters, it refers to owls but also breasts. Right.
And so that's the concept, and it's all... I'm assuming
it's all female waitstaff, is it? Mm-hm.
Wearing short shorts... Tight tops? Yes.
But you don't... Anyway. Yeah.
You don't show your nipples. No.
No. You definitely don't do that.
Selling point! You don't show your nipples!
That's always the rule.
What did it do for you?
I felt like it validated that I was doing the role
that I wanted to do, being pretty and being kind.
And, you know, if you're a Hooters girl, then you're presumably,
like, for decoration. And I wanted to be for decoration.
At that time, it was very Britney Spears,
Christina Aguilera, early noughties vibe.
I could see the type of woman that the world wanted me
to be, and the type of woman that was rewarded.
All the messaging in my life from pop culture and everything else,
and even my mom - she wouldn't say it.
My mom would say, "You're very smart and you're very interesting."
You know, my mom said all the right things, but lived
all the wrong body dysmorphia.
My mom was very glamorous and very body conscious
and very eating-conscious and everything else.
Ancl so I knew that it was advantageous for a young women
to be really pretty, and I wanted to be that.
And I'd be lying if I said I didn't.
Ancl so I worked at Hooters, and I got more tanned
and I had white blonde hair.
Ancl I said, "I'll never get breast implants working here, though.
"That's the line. I just won't do that."
Ancl then one of my friends got amazing breast implants
and I was like, "Oh, I'll get breast implants. But only from that doctor.
"Yeah, I'll go get breast implants next week." And I did.
Ancl I could afford them because I worked at Hooters.
You made a good income? Yeah.
And you were getting into stand-up around the same time?
You're meant to have some chat at Hooters.
You're meant to be fun, and you're meant to engage
the customer and talk to them a lot.
Ancl then we had bikini pageants, and I did one bikini pageant and I won,
and I was excited about that. Congratulations.
Thank you. It was a long, long time ago.
Ancl then the second bikini pageant, I just plucked up the courage
to be like, "I want to host the bikini pageant."
Ancl I didn't think about it more than that, really.
I just went, "I want to hold a microphone and wear a dress.
"I don't want to do the bikini."
Ancl the manager said yes. Maybe because I was sleeping with him.
Ancl so then I got to host the pageant, and I was funny
when I hosted the pageant. Well, let's pause there, because you said
you were sleeping with your boss, right?
You actually said to him... Yeah.
What did you say?
I think I said...
I think I said to him, "If I suck your click, can I leave early?"
Something like that. You really said that? Yeah.
But I liked him.
That's key.
He wasn't just some guy. And what did he say?
He said, "Yes, you can."
"Course you can."
So then I sucked his click, and then I left early. In the office? Yeah.
Ancl all the girls were...
Not ALL the girls, but several of the girls had the same
arrangement, I think. But think about it. Like, I'm going
to sound really pious now, but... No, go ahead.
Someone who wants to leave early but doesn't want to do that
isn't going to leave early. Right.
And so they're being, in a way, they're the losers
in the transaction. Am I missing the point?
Who's the loser? The one who can't leave early because she's like,
"Well, I'm not going to give you a blow job, but I still want
"to leave early." And he's like, "Uh-uh, it doesn't work like that.
"You've got to tickle the pickle."
No, he would never say to someone, though, like,
"You have to do this if you want to leave early."
Looking back on it, do you have the same view of it now
or do you feel maybe he should have said,
"No, that's totally inappropriate"?
It's tricky because we were all very close friends
and I really did like him. I had a crush on him.
I have never sucked the click of anyone I didn't like
at the time, ever. I think, erm...
If, um... OK, I was just worried if you... If my husband
or the baby come in, they both know the story already, so don't worry.
Thank you. What, you told the baby young? Told it in front of him, and he was listening.
He's 15 months. Mm-hm.
LOUIS SNORTS We don't censor ourselves.
I don't think he would have understood that much.
Just in case, though. I'd be worried... Yeah.
...if the baby was like, "You sucked off who?"
CHUCKLING Yeah.
If we zoom out, it kind of goes to the heart of, I suppose,
a big question within feminism, right? About female power
and to what extent using sexuality is powerful or not powerful, right?
It's so tricky.
Ancl I feel like the journey for feminism in general
and for each feminist is not a linear one.
Ancl we all deserve, like, grace for being young
and for being, like... Trying to figure it out and receiving messages
and how to translate those messages into positive behaviour.
And I mean, I would be lying if I said I didn't feel happy
and cared for and empowered, working at Hooters.
But I think you've said that you get a lot of criticism
from within the feminist community.
People say that I can't be a feminist
because I get plastic surgery, or I worked at Hooters,
or because I present very, like, feminine sometimes.
But I mean, I just don't... I don't really mind.
CHILD GURGLES Hi, Fred! Look out.
He can come.
Trouble's coming. Mama.
Fred, you want a cuddle? Wow.
Hi! What a cutie.
Hi. You want to say hello? Oh! What a cutie.
Oh! This is Louis.
Can you say "Hi, Louis"? How are you doing?
I was talking about a place I worked called Hooters.
You can come here if you want. Uh-oh! Uh-oh! I know.
Isn't it crazy? Look at all this stuff.
Go find your digger. Where is it?
Where's the digger?
Where's the dig-dig-digger? Digger.
Aaah!
He's so sweet.
Katherine Ryan is someone special from Canada.
APPLAUSE Thank you.
I am from Canada.
Are you all... Yeah! Are you from Canada?
You just like Canadians?
I'll change that.
Katherine pursued comedy as a profession
only once she'd moved to London.
I am pregnant. Yay!
Thank you. That's the same reaction my parents had.
Combining gigging with life as a single mum to Violet,
she found her voice on stage.
But it was also around this time that she ran into problems
in her private life.
One of the most striking things about your journey is how, at a time
when you were speaking out from a place of power, on stage,
in your own life, you began seeing a guy who, by the sounds of it,
was extremely toxic.
I know.
And I found it quite disturbing and extraordinary
to read about, if I'm honest.
Yeah, it is kind of disturbing now, but it surprised me,
because at the time, I really normalised all of it.
He's called, in the book, The Overlap.
The Overlap. And he was someone you began seeing while you were
kind of fizzling out with the relationship with the father
of your daughter. Which is another... Hence "The Overlap".
...reason it's a bad time to make a decision.
Any time you're in a vulnerable position, it's a really bad time
to get into a new relationship.
I had lots of anxiety back then, lots of feelings of inadequacy.
I'd moved to a different country, far away from my family,
had a grandchild that they never got to see.
Ancl I was going to have to go back home to my small town with my tail
between my legs when everyone expected a lot from me.
My parents always expected a lot from me.
I felt so low about myself and I let myself meet this random dude
on a train who insisted that I take my headphones out.
And my initial reaction upon meeting this Overlap was like,
what an asshole! Fuck off!
Was he very good looking?
No.
I just...
All of a sudden, someone was very interested in me.
Very, very interested in me.
Really romantic and kind of made me feel like, oh, you know,
maybe this isn't the end of my romantic life,
and I'm not damaged goods for being a single mum,
and I can date this exciting musician guy.
Ancl then, he started treating me quite badly
and being very controlling and getting really upset
when I had any success, which I incidentally started to have.
He was also openly pursuing other physical relationships, right?
He invented a character,
which he didn't signpost as a character.
Called? Adam Diablo.
So every time he went out,
"Oh, Adam Diablo shagged this girl in the loos.
"Oh, Adam Diablo was there again."
Like, why have I never met this Adam Diablo?
But then I learned through time. You didn't...
Your spider senses didn't tingle at that point?
What's great about dating a working single mother
is they don't have loads of time to concentrate on what you are doing
or if you're lying or check your phone.
He could be really lovely. We'd have really lovely moments.
Those moments became fewer and far between, but I thought,
he's treated me badly and he's humiliated me
in all of these ways,
but if we can be a family and I can turn it all around,
it's like none of that ever happened.
Ancl everyone will say, "Wow, Katherine!"
It's almost a form of narcissism for me to be like, "I can change him."
Like... And then one time, you woke up...
Yeah. ..and what happened?
It's quite extreme.
But I just woke up...
Is this on the BBC? Really?
OK. BBC Two. Oh, BBC TWO.
Then I woke up with cum all over me and I said, "What is this?"
Ancl he said, "Oh, I thought it would be sexy to masturbate
"on you in the night. I took all these photos as well."
He took so many, like, very explicit photos of himself.
He always wanted, like, adoration and praise,
constantly, constantly, constantly.
And if I ever questioned him or, like, God forbid, ignored him,
then he was really upset.
How did it come to an end?
It was just like an epiphany at some point that I went,
"Oh, this guy just is horrible and I just don't want to be with him any more."
I don't know. I think it was about
hearing myself say enough times on stage
that I knew his behaviour was wrong because even when I didn't live out
this strength in my real life, I was able to take situations
from my real life and talk about them on stage
with a different ending.
And I would say, "Oh, my God, this guy did this and this,
"and here's what I said," but I never actually said
that I was still with this guy.
But I heard myself say it on stage enough times and it convinced me,
like, "Wait, you know what to do, you're just not doing it."
So in a way, your comedy brain was smarter
than your normal brain, right?
Oh, my comedy... Or more emotionally intuitive.
My comedy brain is more smart and emotionally intuitive
than my normal brain, for sure.
All right.
In a small comedy club in London's Covent Garden, Katherine was doing
a short unannounced spot.
Everyone's performed here, is what I'm getting.
Yeah! Right?
Is this like a holy space of comedy?
It's a good one.
It's got a very quintessential stand-up comedy club vibe,
doesn't it?
Tiny, tiny stage. Yeah.
Tiny.
One, two, one, two.
Is this part of the process of generating new material?
Going to open mic nights certainly is part of the process
of generating new material.
Ideally, you would write some ideas long before you arrive,
and I don't have anything - like, I've just written this now.
It sounds like you're under prepared. I'm totally under prepared.
But, like, this is what you have to do also, I think, is make yourself
uncomfortable and bomb - like, I'm prepared to bomb.
I don't mind.
For me, it was a chance to see Katherine in workshop mode.
I'd come along for an insight into her creative process.
I haven't clone an open mic gig in three years.
SHE EXHALES And 'R's not that I'm nervous.
I'm just, like, bewildered, like, what am I going to say to these kids?
What I'm hearing from you more and more is a kind of
domestic happiness and a generosity of spirit and a real love
that you and your husband have.
Yeah. I don't know where to go from here.
I just don't know what's next.
But I really do love my husband.
He could do no wrong in my life. Like, I just love him.
Weird! Don't say that on stage.
Why? Not funny.
No, it's not.
But like I'm just telling you, this is why I'm not funny!
I need him to cheat on me.
This has got to go bad.
This has got to go bad if I'm ever going to be funny again.
I mean, I had some material about my horse was a sex offender.
Have you done this in a bit before?
No, but it's just true about my life.
That's quite good, I think.
Louis, I don't think that I can come into a comedy club
where ZO-year-olds facing an energy crisis are gathering on a Wednesday
and talk to them about the stables
and my problems with my sex offender son, who's a horse.
INDISTINCT CHATTER
Scream and shout, please, for Katherine Ryan!
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Oh, my God! Thank you so much.
It's so nice to see you here. Gosh! What is, like, the normal age...?
Like, give me a cheer if you're in your twenties.
CHEERING
We have nothing in common any more.
LAUGHTER Oh, no!
I don't know how I can relate to you guys.
Like, I'm married and I'm really old now.
I feel like I'm almost 40.
Also, I have a heated swimming pool and no real problems.
LAUGHTER
I was trying to think about material that you would identify with,
and I was like, "Oh, well, I had a problem with a horse
"down at the stables."
LAUGHTER
Let me just try it.
When your horse is misbehaving
and you get a call from the stables. Am I right?
I'd been concerned Katherine was going on without much to work with,
but I needn't have been.
I don't worry about being cancel led at all, because if I'm cancel led,
it'll be for a joke I told a long time ago.
Like, ten years ago.
And when they pf int the story,
they'll have to use a photo of me from ten years ago.
LAUGHTER
Seasoned over many hours of stage time, Katherine's ability
to work a crowd was never in doubt.
I don't know if I'm having a boy or a girl.
Why don't you grow up and be more woke?
You don't know if you're a boy or a girl.
I don't know if I'm a boy or a girl.
I don't see gender. just race.
No... LAUGHTER
Her natural presence and quick wit keeping total control over the room.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'll see you soon. Please look after yourselves.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
I think what's distinctive about your comedy is,
among other things, is the sense of just owning your power.
You just look like you belong there on stage.
I feel like it's really relaxing being on stage.
It's exciting, I like it.
And, um... Now my life is busy,
my, like, home life is always really busy.
Ancl when you're on stage, I just find it a place where, like...
I don't know.
I don't know if I go into, like, a trance.
I just like it. I think it's relaxing.
It feels like you're maybe slightly in a trance?
Like a fugue state, almost? Maybe... What's fugue?
It's that feeling of no... sort of no future, no past.
Yes! Oh, that's called fugue?
Well, fugue state is technically when you're in almost, like,
a moment of amnesia.
Right? I think. I like that.
This is what it is.
As much as my stand-up is dick jokes and everything else, I really want
people to feel, like, infected by my genuine, like, peace...
...contentment with life,
and I think that I've had different lives where I made
really bad choices and I was really vulnerable,
and I was a terrible example of a feminist,
and then, just through...
...sheer, like, luck and gratitude and changing the way
I thought about things,
I started to have a wonderful life.
Ancl I do have a wonderful, peaceful life.
I think a lot of comedy has been about
advertising your failures, your failings.
It seems to me yours isn't about that.
And it's something maybe more interesting.
There's no cringing, there's no apology.
Even your face... It's not expressionless,
but there's a certain aloofness, would you say?
Sure. I feel like I'm talking too much.
No. Am I mansplaining?
Not at all, because you just taught me fugue.
You might teach me something else.
Do you know about feminism?
It's very exciting.
I don't think I do know about feminism,
because I keep changing it every clay.
And that was me being ironic.
That could get me in trouble.
Thank you so much for coming today.
Let's get Fred in.
Eeh-oh!
Yeah! Is he a good sleeper?
Are you a good sleeper? He's getting better.
FRED GURGLES
That's not the answer I was expecting.
Is he in your bed?
He is in bed with me, yeah, and Bobby.
In preparation for having TWO of them in bed with us!
Nice. So that's how you'll work it? There'll be four of you in the bed.
He's huge, too.
He weighs as much as a cooker spaniel.
To quote jaws, "We're going to need a bigger bed."
FRED SHOUTS