1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:03,760 - From the outside, this was a family 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,280 living the American dream. 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,200 - They were together close to 20 years. 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,040 They seemed like they were in love. Everything was going pretty well. 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,440 - They came up with the idea 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,920 to start a business to do government contracts. 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,400 - Her husband would find contracts that they could look into 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,000 and bid on. But all financial dealings 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:26,720 were through Natalie Coughlin. 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,280 - Things are not what they appear to be. 11 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,360 Michael was about to completely uncover what was going on. 12 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,000 He starts asking her, where is this money? 13 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,000 - These crimes are so impactful 14 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:44,920 because they erode trust in one another. 15 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,240 As much as I want to believe in the goodness of people, 16 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,480 the bad that they're capable of has no limits. 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,480 (dramatic, high-tempo music) 18 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,280 - Beckley's quiet for the most part. 19 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,440 Not really too much happens. It's not big city living. 20 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,080 But it's also not really rural like you would see. 21 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,600 It's kind of like maybe in between is how I would describe it. 22 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,800 - The coal mining industry is crucial to the economy, 23 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:42,440 to the job market for this area. 24 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,360 Railroads. Those two things go hand in hand. 25 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,400 - Everyone here has family members who go back generations, 26 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:56,440 having been coal miners or worked in coal mine construction. 27 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,520 - It's still pretty big now, 28 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,080 but it's not quite as big as it was then. 29 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,960 A lot of them kind of up and left. 30 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,120 When these companies up and leave, a lot of the people are just 31 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,600 kind of like left behind. There's not really 32 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,920 any economic opportunities for them. 33 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,120 So when they left, the population almost did with them. 34 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,360 - I'm in Beckley a lot and I never feel uncomfortable, 35 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,120 I never feel like I'm not safe. 36 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,800 I feel like we live 37 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,160 in a very sheltered part of the world, really, 38 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,240 especially in the US. 39 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,480 I think this is a very, I guess, boring, for lack of a better term, 40 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:36,880 a boring place to live. 41 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,520 If you're looking for a lot of drama, 42 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,240 we don't have that. 43 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,000 You know, I think that has been part of the appeal of this investigation 44 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,400 is because it is a little dramatic, and we usually don't have that here. 45 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,880 - I think this got media attention because it's like a TV drama. 46 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,240 You have very extensive fraud scheme, 47 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,880 so many different victims. 48 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,600 - Michael and Natalie Cochran were together close to 20 years. 49 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,520 They seemed like they were in love. 50 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,760 Everything was going pretty well for 'em. 51 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:21,840 - They were described as being high school sweethearts 52 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,840 and attended college together after high school. 53 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,400 She obtained her pharmacy degree. 54 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,520 They lived briefly in Tennessee, then moved back to West Virginia, 55 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,600 where she was employed as a pharmacist. 56 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,200 - By all accounts, they were a happy couple. 57 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,200 Everyone wanted to be them. 58 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:41,760 You know, from the outside, 59 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,800 this was a family living the American dream. 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,160 They had children who were involved in sports and extracurriculars. 61 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,920 The parents were very involved in those activities, 62 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,320 so they were a very tight-knit family. 63 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,120 Or at least that's how it appeared. 64 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,240 - They started Tactical Solutions Group 65 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,280 in 2017. At the time they started the business, 66 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,160 Natalie was still employed as a pharmacist. 67 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,640 Less than two months after they started the business, 68 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,840 she quit her job as a pharmacist 69 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,640 and went to work full-time for the business, 70 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:26,600 and the business was formed with her being the primary owner. 71 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,040 - Her husband would find contracts that they could look into 72 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,240 and bid on. 73 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,480 But all financial dealings were through Natalie Cochrane. 74 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,680 - Natalie and Michael would look into these contracts 75 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,320 that the government needed filled, whether that would be for firearms, 76 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,920 computers, medical supplies, 77 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,920 pretty much anything you can think of 78 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,640 that the government might need. 79 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,000 They would then bid on those contracts and say, 80 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,720 we can fulfil it for this amount of money. 81 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,520 And they would get special status 82 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,480 because Natalie was listed as the majority owner on the company. 83 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,440 So it was listed as a woman-owned company. 84 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,280 It was also listed as a minority ethnicity-owned company, 85 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,840 because she purported herself to be Native American as well. 86 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,880 That gave her preference on bids. 87 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,360 So they would then be awarded a contract 88 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,400 and would solicit investments from people in the community, 89 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,280 family members, friends, 90 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,040 and would say, hey, if you invest this amount of money, 91 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,480 I can promise you a large amount of return on your investment. 92 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,040 You're going to get back more than you put in 93 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,160 and help us fulfil these contracts. 94 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,640 They would say that they had all these contacts in guns 95 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,720 and technology and things, that's where 96 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,720 they would be able to fulfil contracts. 97 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,080 - Natalie Cochran had been soliciting money 98 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:54,920 from the friends and family, 99 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,440 and they begin to ask questions to Michael Cochran. 100 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,080 And so Michael Cochran had approached Natalie 101 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,480 and was beginning to wonder where the money was, 102 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,720 cos apparently some investors weren't getting their money back. 103 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,640 - The December, end of January of 2019 104 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,800 the US government had experienced a shutdown, 105 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,560 but it provided Natalie a little bit of cushion 106 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,040 and a little bit of time to fend off the investors, 107 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,560 fend off Michael, because he was being very adamant 108 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,000 at that time, wanting to know why they didn't have access 109 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,080 to the wealth that she had told him that they had. 110 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,600 So as the government shutdown was ending 111 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,840 and it was being very well publicised in the media, 112 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,200 she knew that was coming, 113 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,720 so she started telling all the investors, 114 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,320 including Michael, that the funds 115 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,120 from all their government contract work was going to be moved 116 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:06,920 to a wealth management account at the Bank of America in Virginia, 117 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,840 because, according to her, the banks here in the local area 118 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,400 didn't have the ability to manage the amount of wealth 119 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,560 that they had accumulated. 120 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,480 Michael Cochrane was literally at the end of his rope. 121 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,360 He wasn't accusing his wife of anything. 122 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:30,040 He was directing his anger and his frustration at the banks, 123 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,080 at the government. All these things that she was feeding to him, 124 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,160 he was accepting that. 125 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,360 - Natalie and Michael were about to fly out to Virginia 126 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,480 the morning that Michael fell ill, 127 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,760 and they were going to find out why their Bank of America account 128 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,320 was not being funded, and this is $9 million missing at this point. 129 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,680 And if they do that, then Michael finds out that nothing is real. 130 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,560 Things are not what they appear to be. 131 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,280 Michael was about to completely uncover what was going on, 132 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,200 to figure out that this was all a scam. 133 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,200 He starts asking her, where is this money? 134 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,880 Why have you not been paying my family back? 135 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,960 And they're telling me that they haven't gotten any money. 136 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,440 Also, where's the money we're supposed to get? 137 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,240 - Michael was getting excuse after excuse after excuse 138 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,560 as to why the money wasn't coming into the account 139 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,440 and being paid out to the investors. 140 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,920 So Michael was under the impression 141 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,840 that Bank of America was wrongfully sitting on all this money 142 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,280 that needed to come out. The Cochrans, 143 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,520 Natalie, in particular, chartered a flight 144 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:54,440 from Beckley to Virginia 145 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,800 to meet with the Bank of America banker handling their account. 146 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:04,000 That was to take place on the 6th of February, 2019. 147 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,480 - The morning that they are supposed to take that flight, 148 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,920 Natalie wakes up and says, oh, I'm really sick. 149 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,320 I need to go to the doctor. I think I have the flu. 150 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,200 So she goes to the doctor. 151 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,480 Michael says, go ahead and cancel the flight. 152 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,000 We can go tomorrow. 153 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,640 - We were told by three witnesses 154 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:34,040 that they were summoned by Natalie to the Cochran residence 155 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,280 on February 6th because she needed help with Michael, 156 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,640 and she indicated to them that he had fallen ill 157 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,240 and that she needed help with him. 158 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,320 - She actually took a picture of Michael 159 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,920 crumpled up in the kitchen floor and sent it to them, 160 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,920 and of course, people receiving this are horrified. 161 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,520 - When they got there, they found him in the kitchen floor, 162 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:04,800 unresponsive, unconscious. 163 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,680 She requested that they place him on the couch in the living room. 164 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,360 He had had two prior illnesses leading up to that, 165 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,080 in late October, early November. She was referencing that to them, 166 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,360 saying that he was sick like the last time, 167 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,600 and they knew he had been ill 168 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,400 and he had sought medical treatment for that. 169 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,680 Once they moved him to the couch, 170 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,360 she was checking his vital signs, 171 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,480 to include his blood glucose level. 172 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,240 - There had been a number of people in and out of the Cochrane home 173 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,400 all urging Natalie to take Michael to the hospital, 174 00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:53,640 and she ignored all of that advice, 175 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,760 claiming that Michael didn't want to go to the hospital. 176 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,960 But he clearly needed to go. 177 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,640 - Between 7 and 8 p.m., 178 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,720 Chris Davis came to the house. 179 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,200 He immediately made the decision that they were going to take Michael 180 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,320 to the hospital, and they drove him in a personal vehicle, 181 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,200 they didn't wait for an ambulance. 182 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,560 - Michael's family was not contacted until very late in the night, 183 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,040 after Michael had already gone to the hospital 184 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,040 and was being transported to a facility 185 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,120 where he would have required more care. 186 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,520 - Michael Cochrane was really big into weightlifting. 187 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:33,200 Natalie said that he would take a lot of supplements, 188 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,080 apparently handfuls at a time. 189 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,800 She said he would take anabolic steroids 190 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,880 on a dropper and that sort of thing in his mouth. 191 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,320 Natalie Cochrane said 192 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,720 that was maybe one of the reasons that he died. 193 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,800 - I first learned about this case in March of 2019. 194 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,640 My colleague that I was working with at the time, 195 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,160 Mr Heinzman, and I had just completed a cold case investigation 196 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,080 that we had worked on together, 197 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,680 but we had also been working towards identifying other cases 198 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,840 moving forward that we wanted to try to work on. 199 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,200 So I had a couple of those lined up and he said, 200 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,040 let me tell you about this case that I just heard about. 201 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,520 He had happened to cross paths 202 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:52,840 with another West Virginia state trooper 203 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,000 by the name of Sergeant Alan Marsh. 204 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,640 Sergeant Marsh was telling him about a friend of his 205 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,720 who was a local business owner. 206 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,760 He had entered into some type of investment with Natalie Cochran. 207 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,320 He was concerned because he had quite a bit of money 208 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,560 tied up in this deal, and he wasn't even trying 209 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,160 to get law enforcement involved necessarily, he said, 210 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,640 I just want to get my money back. 211 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,880 I don't want anybody to get in trouble with the law. 212 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,680 That's the resolution I'm seeking. 213 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,640 But in that conversation, 214 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,920 he also says Natalie Cochran's husband 215 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,600 recently passed away under suspicious circumstances. 216 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,280 All those red flags were just jumping out, 217 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,040 and I told Bob, I said, 218 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,320 well, even on on its face, I said, that is suspicious. 219 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:58,120 I said, you know, and there was no immediate rush to judgment, 220 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,520 it was just one of those things 221 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,960 that we have the time to investigate this. That's our job. 222 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,840 This was something that was fresh, and I was like, 223 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,960 let's focus on that, you know? 224 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,760 And he agreed, and we started the investigation. 225 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,440 There was no thought process from the beginning 226 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,200 that this was a murder. 227 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,800 There were just telltale signs that there was a lot more happening 228 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,760 than what met the eye. 229 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,560 We met with the United States Attorney's Office 230 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,800 for the Southern District of West Virginia, 231 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,720 because we realised that pretty early on 232 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,440 that if the financial scheme was of the magnitude 233 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,000 that we believed it was that they were best suited 234 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,960 to prosecute those crimes, if there were crimes identified. 235 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,640 They were very receptive to the case, 236 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:58,560 and that gave us the subpoena powers that we really needed 237 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,240 to really get the financial documentation 238 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:02,720 to take a really deep dive 239 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,720 into what was going on with Tactical Solutions Group. 240 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,840 - One of our investigators, Bob Heinzmann, 241 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,080 going through the transactions, said, this is a Ponzi scheme. 242 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,080 - A Ponzi scheme is essentially where a person gets investors 243 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,040 to invest in a company that doesn't exist. 244 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,080 And they continue to get investors and sort of perhaps 245 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,760 the second tier of investors provides money. 246 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,680 And the person who's operating the Ponzi scheme 247 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,760 would then perhaps use some of that money 248 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,320 to pay the initial investors. It kind of has a snowball effect. 249 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,480 - She had run this massive Ponzi scheme, and had gotten 250 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,560 lots of local business people who I knew specifically, 251 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,160 taken them for basically everything that they had. 252 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,160 - I think people would be surprised that there was that much money 253 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,880 in southern West Virginia that you could bilk people out of, 254 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,360 but people cashed in retirement plans 255 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,920 to join her parade of horrors. 256 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,080 For the most part, 257 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,880 they were friends, family or both. 258 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,560 But there were some other people. She took advantage 259 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,760 of some high end professionals, lawyers, dentists, smart people. 260 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,040 But they fell for Natalie's line. 261 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,640 - Natalie's Ponzi scheme involved obtaining investors to invest 262 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,760 in two of her companies that were purportedly 263 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,920 dealing with federal contractors to provide goods and services, 264 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,040 primarily to the Department of Defense. 265 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,800 - And what she would do is, she would claim that she had 266 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,280 a government contract that was going to generate 267 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,360 huge amounts of money. I mean, 268 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,640 we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars 269 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,600 in turning over these contracts. 270 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,680 And what she would do, essentially, 271 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,080 is, she would get investor one to put in money, 272 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,280 then she would go to investor two to put in money, 273 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,520 and as long as she kept enough people happy... 274 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,600 She was paying out some of the money, 275 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,240 but it was other investors' money or loans, 276 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,560 and she'd say, you know, you could take this money right now, 277 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,720 but I've got a contract coming up in two weeks 278 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,160 and it's going to generate huge amounts of money. 279 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,160 Why don't you take a little bit of cash 280 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,960 and we'll roll that over into the next contract? 281 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:34,440 And that's what people did. 282 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,360 - She would manufacture fake contracts 283 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,520 to show potential investors. 284 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,040 She then obtained approximately $2.5 million 285 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,560 from various investors 286 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,280 in support of these fake contracts. 287 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:57,080 She used fake documentation also about her companies 288 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,920 to obtain either lines of credit or loans 289 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,920 from financial institutions. 290 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,920 So from both of those sources of income, 291 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,760 she at times would pay investors to lull them 292 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,960 into thinking that her businesses were legitimate. 293 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,640 Most of the money, however, went to her own personal accounts. 294 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:21,120 - Natalie Cochran left a huge electronic trail of evidence. 295 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:26,960 The text messages between Michael and Natalie were 1600 pages, 296 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:30,760 and you could just see the pattern. 297 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,160 And there was the same pattern Natalie used 298 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,560 with all the other text messaging that went out to her investors. 299 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,360 There was always an excuse. Always, the money's on the way, 300 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,560 here's the wire transfer number, 301 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,880 wire transfers come out between such and such a day 302 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,560 and such and such a time. All of it just nonsense. 303 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,120 That's what she was telling people, 304 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,600 and they kind of wanted to believe it. 305 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,560 And Michael kind of wanted to believe it, too, 306 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,680 because he just couldn't face the fact 307 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,680 that money was not being paid out. 308 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,160 There was a local businessman who has got to be 309 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,800 one of the luckiest people in Raleigh County, 310 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,960 because he was going to buy half of her non-existent business 311 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,640 for $4.9 million. 312 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,400 When the search warrant was executed, 313 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,440 the investigators found the contract for that sale: 314 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,280 he had already wired $50,000 315 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,480 to act as earnest money, 316 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,880 but he was about to send another 500,000, 317 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,800 and he didn't, because they went to him and said, 318 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,040 we think this is a bad idea, and here's why. 319 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,880 - The point at which they felt they had enough evidence 320 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,280 to charge her was at the time of the search, 321 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,800 and the search was just sort of the final part of the investigation. 322 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,640 I think they felt very comfortable, 323 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,360 and we felt comfortable there was enough to charge her. 324 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,120 - The U.S. Attorney's Office prosecuted her on the Ponzi scheme. 325 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,360 - There were 26 total counts in the indictment itself. 326 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,480 So what we did was kind of just picked representative counts, 327 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,560 two counts: one of wire fraud, which was, you know, 328 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,680 sort of the main thing that she was doing, 329 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,200 then the unlawful money transaction or money laundering. 330 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,400 - Judge Volk, who sentenced her, said that he was surprised 331 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,640 that the U.S. Attorney's Office was as lenient with her 332 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,400 as they were: he thought she deserved more time, 333 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,080 but couldn't give it to her due to the plea agreement. 334 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,560 - She only pled to one of the wire fraud counts. 335 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,440 In terms of calculating her sentence, 336 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,000 the money that's involved in all the counts 337 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,360 is added up and included. 338 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,720 So she's still responsible for all that. 339 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,560 She was sentenced for one count of wire fraud 340 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,520 and one count of an unlawful money transaction. 341 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,440 So 11 years for a white collar crime 342 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,800 for a person who has no criminal history. 343 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,440 - Outside of the Ponzi scheme conviction, 344 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,600 the biggest benefit was actually then being able to sit down 345 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,040 with people who were close to Natalie 346 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,480 who were victims of the Ponzi scheme, 347 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,080 because some of the folks, even when we told them, 348 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,080 hey, this is a Ponzi scheme, you're a victim here, 349 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,120 they didn't want to believe it. If you're a business person, 350 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,240 you don't want to feel like you've been played for a fool. 351 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,720 It just shows her level of manipulation. 352 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,920 The problem is not you. The problem's her. 353 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,560 And we're here to help you. But you got to let us help you. 354 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,560 You've got to tell us the truth and tell us everything you know 355 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,880 and everything you did with her. And when we broke down that barrier 356 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,000 and they started doing that, then we were able 357 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,440 to ask the really hard questions about Michael's death. 358 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,640 You're trying to put yourself in Natalie Cochran's position 359 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,040 and to look at the chessboard the way they see it. 360 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:26,360 And that's something I never wanted to do because I'm not that person. 361 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,080 I'm not like Natalie Cochrane. 362 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,160 I'm not like people who do these kind of crimes. 363 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:36,080 But in order to investigate 'em, you've got to get pretty damn close 364 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,280 to putting yourself in their shoes. 365 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,400 The reiteration of a thought that I've had for many years 366 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,320 of doing this is that... 367 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,360 ..as much as I want to believe in the goodness of people... 368 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,360 ..the bad that they're capable of has no limits. 369 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,920 And that's that's a hard way to look at life. But it's the truth. 370 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,200 - Natalie Cochrane has a very interesting history. 371 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,800 She was successful as a pharmacist. 372 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,080 They were paying her $120,000 a year. 373 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,120 The pharmacy she worked for sent her to school 374 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,480 to get her an MBA at no cost to her. 375 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,760 In southern West Virginia, you can do very well at $,120,000 376 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,840 And she was only going up. 377 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,440 I mean, pretty clearly CVS corporate 378 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,600 thought she had a big future. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid 379 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,560 for an MBA. But that wasn't enough. She had to have more. 380 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,200 So she got into what became her Ponzi scam. 381 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:53,600 And there was just money, and more money. 382 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,680 That's apparently all she cared about. 383 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,320 - Natalie Cochran's Ponzi scheme was that she was taking money 384 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,880 from mostly family members and friends, 385 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,480 hundreds of thousands of dollars. 386 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,040 - What she did was obtain investors 387 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,520 in those companies, presented them with fake contracts, 388 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,760 with the idea that when she fulfilled these contracts 389 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,880 with the federal government, whatever profit she would make 390 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,320 she would share with these investors. 391 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,280 There were never any contracts. Not one. 392 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:38,760 - Natalie Cochran was sentenced to 135 months in federal custody 393 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,240 for a Ponzi scheme. 394 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:46,400 That in itself, I think, is a testament to the level of loss 395 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,880 and the level of impact that her actions had on victims, 396 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,800 on the community, and the judge took that into consideration. 397 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,560 - The victims were awarded restitution. 398 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,280 That was part of the sentencing order by the judge. 399 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,920 As a practical matter, there's probably not going to be 400 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,640 total restitution, because we're talking $2.5 million 401 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,720 that she actually received. 402 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,920 There were some expensive items seized at the time of the search. 403 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,040 Those would have been auctioned off by the Marshal's Office 404 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,760 and then that gone to restitution. 405 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,680 She was ordered to pay restitution once she was released from prison. 406 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,840 - This was like a meteor hitting this community. 407 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,600 It tore people apart. It tore people's lives apart 408 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,960 financially, emotionally. 409 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:45,600 I mean, people lost their life savings. 410 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,720 And these are all people that we all know. 411 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,960 We're all thinking, that could have been me. 412 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,520 - Any advice I would have to people 413 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,840 so they would not fall victims of this 414 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,160 is ask questions. 415 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,200 If you hear that your investment 416 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,680 is almost too good to be true, 417 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,080 it's too good to be true. 418 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,600 Because even with a legitimate investment, 419 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,640 there's always risk. In this case, people trusted her. 420 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:22,360 She provided great evidence, though it was totally manufactured, 421 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:23,800 that her company was good. 422 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,800 So it's tough. It's just get all the information you can get. 423 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,040 - Unfortunately, I think one of the messages is, be careful. 424 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,840 You can't be as trusting as West Virginians tend to be, 425 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,520 and that that's kind of sad. 426 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,760 But that is certainly one of the messages, 427 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,840 and especially if you're going to cash in your retirement account, 428 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,000 be very careful. 429 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,600 - Elderly people are typically victims. 430 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,880 I was reading in AARP today about how to avoid those scams, 431 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,160 almost the whole publication is dedicated to that. 432 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,240 I think just providing that information 433 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,000 and just making them more aware that this kind of thing does happen. 434 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,640 Hopefully the media attention will bring attention 435 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,040 to this type of crime and do two things: 436 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,040 number one will serve to keep people 437 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,920 from committing the kind of crime, 438 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,680 and also just make people aware that these kind of fraudsters exist, 439 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,760 make them a bit more careful, 440 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,440 so they don't become victims themselves. So yeah, 441 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,840 and I think any time, no matter what type of crime 442 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,320 you're talking about, if the public knows about it 443 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,720 and all aspects of it, that does serve 444 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,840 to keep those crimes from happening. 445 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,720 - People we identified that would be 446 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,720 a potentially very important witness, 447 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,240 possibly in the Ponzi scheme, we had to talk to them 448 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,920 just about Michael's death. 449 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:04,080 I was trying to work on things 450 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,640 related more specifically to Michael Cochran 451 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,160 and what happened with him medically, 452 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,880 because there was no thought process from the beginning 453 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,520 that this was a murder. 454 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,120 The thought process was that we don't know, 455 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,760 and there's only one way to find out. 456 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,440 - 21, which was the blood glucose level that Michael Cochran had 457 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,440 when he got to the Raleigh general emergency, 458 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,640 the only way that level could have been achieved 459 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,120 was by administering and injecting insulin. 460 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,080 - Insulin is listed as being a chemical 461 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,280 used to regulate blood sugar. 462 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,400 The human body generates insulin, human insulin, 463 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,440 and lispro is basically a different structural isomer 464 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,080 of human insulin. 465 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,320 So it's very, very similar, it has all the same building blocks. 466 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,520 Two of those blocks are switched in order. 467 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,120 Instead of it being proline and lysine, 468 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,080 it's lysine and proline, hence the name lispro. 469 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,400 Those two are switched, 470 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,680 and they're designed to mimic the same behaviour of human insulin. 471 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,560 - Natalie Cochran was not only a pharmacist, 472 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,760 but she also claimed to be a specialist in diabetes. 473 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,280 And so she would counsel people, she would help people. 474 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,400 She knew the ins and outs of diabetes, 475 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,720 and knew very well the consequences of giving insulin to non-diabetics. 476 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,600 - And Michael Cochran was not diabetic. 477 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,920 While the government shutdown was going on, 478 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,880 she had also made the allegation that she had been diagnosed 479 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,040 with cancer, a form of leukaemia. 480 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,520 And that was not accurate. She was not. 481 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,000 And... that gave her an excuse 482 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,800 for sympathy from people, 483 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,600 from investors. 484 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,000 Jennifer Davis, being a close friend of hers, was very aware of that. 485 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,680 So they were texting about Natalie's condition, 486 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,640 and Natalie told her, 487 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:19,400 due to whatever physical ailment that she had at that time, 488 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,400 and the treatments that they were using to help her, 489 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,080 that was going to require that she would have to use insulin. 490 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,680 - Jennifer has a son who is diabetic, 491 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,320 so she knew that she could get that insulin from her. 492 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,160 Jennifer says, do you need to borrow a bottle? 493 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,960 Natalie says, yes, that might be easier, just go ahead and do that, 494 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,000 and Jennifer's husband drops off a bag with a couple of drinks 495 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,440 and the insulin bottle a couple of hours later. 496 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,080 - Michael's mother did not find out until close to midnight, 497 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,600 and she was a retired nurse. 498 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,400 If you call her at 1 p.m., 499 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,800 being a retired nurse, and she comes to the house, 500 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,200 she's going to say, I'm calling an ambulance. 501 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,000 And Natalie knew that. 502 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,320 - Natalie was continuing to run the Ponzi scheme 503 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,760 while Michael was in the hospital. Still trying to solicit contracts. 504 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,280 still reaching out to investors, trying to get people to participate. 505 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,600 It turns out that while Michael's unconscious, 506 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,960 Natalie is actually in his phone and using it 507 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,160 and pretending to be him to other people. 508 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,960 She also had a scholarship in his memory, 509 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:36,800 with no money. 510 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,040 She awarded scholarships to a number of students 511 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,600 for four years of a college education, 512 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,840 sometimes five years of college education. 513 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,360 There was no money to support that, 514 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,640 but it diverted attention for a while. 515 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,120 When they executed the search warrant, 516 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,280 they found a bottle of insulin in her refrigerator. 517 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,440 It was identical to the insulin 518 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,600 that Natalie had fraudulently acquired, 519 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,840 but the insulin was still in the house in June, 520 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,480 and Michael died in February. 521 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,280 - This case was submitted to the lab in 2021. 522 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,360 I started working in June of 2021. 523 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,960 - The medical evidence in this case was very important, 524 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,080 because we were operating on a purely circumstantial case. 525 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,560 We had absolutely no direct evidence. 526 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,360 There's no eyewitness, there's no smoking gun. 527 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,480 We don't have DNA, anything like that 528 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,680 in this sort of case. 529 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,440 So the fact that we have medical evidence that says 530 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,760 Michael got to the hospital and his blood glucose was 21 531 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:44,920 is huge. 532 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,160 - This is a very unique case. The Ponzi scheme and a murder 533 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,560 is just something that you don't see very often. 534 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,160 - One reason that I was brought into the case 535 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,680 was to deal with the victims sort of pre-trial. 536 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,880 I've done a lot of that work. dealing with victims, witnesses 537 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,760 and that sort of thing. 538 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:18,040 So we dealt with Michael's mom and stepdad a good deal. 539 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,800 They just had a whole mix of emotions, 540 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:22,920 because this was their daughter-in-law, 541 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,640 and it was a daughter-in-law that they cared about. 542 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,920 They were hurt. They were angry, 543 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,080 including sometimes anger at us. 544 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,400 The case got delayed once after I got in, and that happens, 545 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,080 and we had to explain to them that this was normal, 546 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,120 and sort of alleviate any fears. I think 547 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,240 they were afraid she'd get away with it. 548 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,360 - We tried the murder case 549 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,160 five years after the Ponzi scheme was resolved. 550 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:58,200 Every conference and every time that I could see her do anything, 551 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,480 she was constantly trying to tell her attorneys what to do. 552 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,840 She was writing notes feverishly and passing them to them, 553 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,800 and I don't think she ever thought the trial would take place 554 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,600 or that she'd get convicted. 555 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,120 - We tried to keep our arguments pretty straightforward 556 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,760 and pretty in line, as opposed to the defence, 557 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,960 who touted five or six different theories. 558 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,240 But our theory of the case 559 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,800 was Michael was about to uncover the Ponzi scheme, 560 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,640 and Natalie could not allow that to happen. 561 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,400 So she obtained insulin from her friend Jennifer 562 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,640 because she was a diabetic counselor, 563 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,360 knew what insulin would do to the body, injected him with it, 564 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,640 and then made sure that he didn't receive 565 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,400 adequate medical care until it was too late. 566 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,840 I think the text messages were the main thing 567 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,600 that showed that the Ponzi scheme was related to the murder, 568 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,000 because we could look at those and we can see 569 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,760 Natalie giving Michael excuses over and over 570 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,160 about where money is, why money is missing, 571 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,080 when it's going to show up, why it hasn't shown up on those dates. 572 00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:14,440 Then there comes this date that Michael is promised 573 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,880 we're going to see our money today. 574 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,360 He becomes so sick that he never wakes up again. 575 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,120 - The main arguments by the defence were that Michael was involved 576 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,320 in this every bit as much as Natalie, 577 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,000 that Michael was this big, strong, tough, healthy guy 578 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:41,320 that physically dominated her and his children, 579 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,920 or that he was so sickly he was going to die anyhow, 580 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,080 and that there's no connection between anything Natalie did 581 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,440 and his death. That's kind of a summary of the defence approach. 582 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,400 The two Cochran children that were the product of the marriage 583 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,600 both testified on behalf of their mom. 584 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,880 I felt sorry for them. They had had a horrible five, six years, 585 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,200 and they tried their best to help their mom. 586 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,280 - Michael's family I've gotten to be kind of close to 587 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,800 over the last few years. My heart breaks for them. 588 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,160 My heart breaks for Michael Cochran's children. 589 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,720 They're the additional victims here that nobody talks about. 590 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,840 We talk about the victims of the Ponzi scheme, 591 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,560 about Michael Cochran being a victim, 592 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,640 those two children are just as much victims as anyone. 593 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,760 You know, they didn't ask for any of this. 594 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,720 They were just born into that family 595 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,960 and then there they are. That was just heartbreaking. 596 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,200 And I hope that at some point in their lives 597 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,720 they're able to reconcile with this. 598 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,000 To see her sit there as a mother 599 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,280 and allow her children to go through that, 600 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,000 knowing she could have prevented it, 601 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,000 that showed me who she really is. 602 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,640 - From my getting to know her 603 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,120 strictly through the prosecution of this case, 604 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,040 she was very smart, she was very good at talking. 605 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,920 I think she had no problems with self-esteem. 606 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,560 She was able to talk her way out of everything, 607 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:23,280 and I suspect that she thought that right up to the end. 608 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,640 - I still believe she thinks that. 609 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,640 I think that she still believes that people are going to 610 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,200 just believe her because she's Natalie Cochran. 611 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,640 That was what she got by on for so long, 612 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,680 and was able to fool so many people. 613 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,560 - Mike was one of my best friends. 614 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,880 MAN: You miss him? 615 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,520 - His testimony was so emotional, cos it's his best friend he lost, 616 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,360 that I think it came across as very raw and very genuine. 617 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:04,760 His wife also testified, and she was again extremely emotional, 618 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,520 because she was not only very close with the Cochrans as a whole, 619 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,960 but she believed that Natalie was one of her best friends, 620 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,480 and she's been deceived by her to such a level 621 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,560 that she manipulated her into providing the murder weapon 622 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:23,760 for her husband. 623 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,280 So those two, I thought, 624 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,520 were particularly moving particularly important for our case. 625 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,640 That moment had a lot of shock value. 626 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,000 The jury, I think they kind of knew at that very moment. 627 00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:43,200 JUDGE: It is the judgment and ruling of the court 628 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,520 that the defendant, Natalie Paige Cochran, 629 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,600 be committed to the penitentiary of this state 630 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,920 for her natural life. 631 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,000 - There's every indication, based upon what we saw, 632 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,120 that she has zero remorse. 633 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,360 She's never taken any responsibility for what she did. 634 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,920 She's always content to deflect. It's everybody else's fault 635 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,640 but hers. And the facts just don't support her on that. 636 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,640 I mean, there's no doubt in my mind 637 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,560 she did exactly what we accused her of. 638 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:25,280 And if given her druthers, she would try some other scam, 639 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,920 and clearly she's not afraid to kill people to achieve her goals. 640 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,480 There's no reason to think she wouldn't do it again. 641 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,280 - With Michael's family, nothing that we do can bring their son back, 642 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,040 but this is a sense of closure for them, I think. 643 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,720 It's probably the most closure that we could have gotten for them. 644 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,040 So I think that they can finally start to move on 645 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,040 and live their lives and let Michael rest. 646 00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:01,120 - Had it not been for just a chance encounter 647 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,840 between Trooper Marsh and this investor 648 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,880 having a conversation as friends, cos they're friends, 649 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,760 he didn't seek Marsh out to tell him about this, 650 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,320 they just happened to cross paths and were talking, and he's like, 651 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,720 hey, by the way. One of those conversations. 652 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:24,400 So I don't know, you know, what your belief system is, 653 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,000 but is that divine intervention? 654 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,440 Is it fate? You know, whatever label you want to put on it. 655 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,680 Uh... I don't know, 656 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,440 but I'll take it. If that hadn't happened, 657 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,120 we wouldn't be having this conversation, I promise you. 658 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,880 - Our investigative team was absolutely wonderful. 659 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,760 They have been working on this case since 2019, 660 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,640 so six years before it went to trial, 661 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,280 from the time that they started working on it. 662 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,560 And there is no way that we could have done this without them. 663 00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:02,720 They were so diligent and so thorough, 664 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,880 and they did not leave a single stone unturned. 665 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,320 I mean, the number of people they must have met and spoken with 666 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,000 during this investigation 667 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:16,520 is probably more than I will talk to in the next ten years of my career. 668 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,360 -What I do know is it's a trust game 669 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:29,400 and the victims lose... by trusting. 670 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:35,080 And... that's a... that's a hard thing to say, 671 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:40,800 because I don't want people to be any more suspicious of other people 672 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,160 than they already are, you know? 673 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,800 And that's why these crimes are so impactful, 674 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,120 because they erode our trust in one another. 675 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,120 They erode at the things 676 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,480 that make us want to believe in other humans. 677 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:02,240 And it's just... it's sickening that these things happen, 678 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,440 that, you know... there's so many ways 679 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,320 to make money in this world. 680 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,240 It's just a lazy-ass way to make money 681 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,280 by stealing off people that love you, 682 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:14,720 or people who trust in you. 683 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,600 I have no tolerance for it. 684 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,280 Michael Cochrane was on a quest. 685 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,720 He was on a quest to find out where his money was. 686 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,640 And that's all it was. If you read the text messages, 687 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,760 he's just trying to find out where... you tell me I'm wealthy, 688 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,200 show me the money, where's it at? 689 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,640 And every time he would get this close, 690 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,080 something would happen. 691 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:45,720 But February 6th, he wasn't this close, 692 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,000 he was going to walk in the door at the Bank of America, 693 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,840 and that was it. And she knew that. 694 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,240 It was... just like anything, 695 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,760 It just came to a head, and it was going to erupt. 696 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,240 And she had to stop that. 697 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,840 And that's what's so tragic for him. 698 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,080 He trusted his wife, 699 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:09,600 and it cost him his life. 700 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,840 (high-tempo, dramatic music) 701 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,960 Subtitles by Sky Access Services