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- From the outside,
this was a family
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00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,280
living the American dream.
3
00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,200
- They were together
close to 20 years.
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00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,040
They seemed like they were in love.
Everything was going pretty well.
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00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,440
- They came up with the idea
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00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,920
to start a business
to do government contracts.
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00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,400
- Her husband would find contracts
that they could look into
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00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,000
and bid on.
But all financial dealings
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00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:26,720
were through Natalie Coughlin.
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00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,280
- Things
are not what they appear to be.
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00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,360
Michael was about to completely
uncover what was going on.
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He starts asking her,
where is this money?
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00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,000
- These crimes are so impactful
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00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:44,920
because they erode trust
in one another.
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As much as I want to believe
in the goodness of people,
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the bad that they're capable of
has no limits.
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00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,480
(dramatic, high-tempo music)
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00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,280
- Beckley's quiet
for the most part.
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00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,440
Not really too much happens.
It's not big city living.
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But it's also not really rural
like you would see.
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It's kind of like maybe in between
is how I would describe it.
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00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,800
- The coal mining industry
is crucial to the economy,
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00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:42,440
to the job market for this area.
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00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,360
Railroads. Those two things
go hand in hand.
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00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,400
- Everyone here has family members
who go back generations,
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00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:56,440
having been coal miners
or worked in coal mine construction.
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00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,520
- It's still pretty big now,
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00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,080
but it's not quite as big
as it was then.
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00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,960
A lot of them kind of up and left.
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00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,120
When these companies up and leave,
a lot of the people are just
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kind of like left behind.
There's not really
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00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,920
any economic opportunities for them.
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00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,120
So when they left, the population
almost did with them.
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00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,360
- I'm in Beckley a lot
and I never feel uncomfortable,
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00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,120
I never feel like I'm not safe.
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00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,800
I feel like we live
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00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,160
in a very sheltered
part of the world, really,
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00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,240
especially in the US.
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00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,480
I think this is a very, I guess,
boring, for lack of a better term,
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00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:36,880
a boring place to live.
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00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,520
If you're looking for
a lot of drama,
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00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,240
we don't have that.
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00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,000
You know, I think that has been part
of the appeal of this investigation
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00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,400
is because it is a little dramatic,
and we usually don't have that here.
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00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,880
- I think this got media attention
because it's like a TV drama.
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00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,240
You have
very extensive fraud scheme,
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00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,880
so many different victims.
48
00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,600
- Michael and Natalie Cochran
were together close to 20 years.
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00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,520
They seemed like they were in love.
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00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,760
Everything was going pretty well
for 'em.
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00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:21,840
- They were described as being
high school sweethearts
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00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,840
and attended college together
after high school.
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00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,400
She obtained her pharmacy degree.
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00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,520
They lived briefly in Tennessee,
then moved back to West Virginia,
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00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,600
where she was employed
as a pharmacist.
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00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,200
- By all accounts,
they were a happy couple.
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00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,200
Everyone wanted to be them.
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00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:41,760
You know, from the outside,
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00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,800
this was a family
living the American dream.
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00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,160
They had children who were involved
in sports and extracurriculars.
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00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,920
The parents were very involved
in those activities,
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00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,320
so they were
a very tight-knit family.
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00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,120
Or at least that's how it appeared.
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00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,240
- They started
Tactical Solutions Group
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00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,280
in 2017. At the time
they started the business,
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00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,160
Natalie was still employed
as a pharmacist.
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00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,640
Less than two months
after they started the business,
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00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,840
she quit her job as a pharmacist
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00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,640
and went to work full-time
for the business,
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00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:26,600
and the business was formed
with her being the primary owner.
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00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,040
- Her husband would find contracts
that they could look into
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00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,240
and bid on.
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00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,480
But all financial dealings
were through Natalie Cochrane.
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00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,680
- Natalie and Michael
would look into these contracts
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00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,320
that the government needed filled,
whether that would be for firearms,
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00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,920
computers, medical supplies,
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00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,920
pretty much
anything you can think of
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00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,640
that the government might need.
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00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,000
They would then bid
on those contracts and say,
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00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,720
we can fulfil it
for this amount of money.
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00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,520
And they would get special status
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00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,480
because Natalie was listed as
the majority owner on the company.
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00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,440
So it was listed
as a woman-owned company.
84
00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,280
It was also listed as a
minority ethnicity-owned company,
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00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,840
because she purported herself
to be Native American as well.
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00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,880
That gave her preference on bids.
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00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,360
So they would then be awarded
a contract
88
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,400
and would solicit investments
from people in the community,
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00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,280
family members, friends,
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00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,040
and would say, hey,
if you invest this amount of money,
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00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,480
I can promise you a large amount
of return on your investment.
92
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,040
You're going to get back
more than you put in
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00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,160
and help us fulfil these contracts.
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00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,640
They would say that they had
all these contacts in guns
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00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,720
and technology and things,
that's where
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00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,720
they would be able
to fulfil contracts.
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00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,080
- Natalie Cochran
had been soliciting money
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00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:54,920
from the friends and family,
99
00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,440
and they begin to ask questions
to Michael Cochran.
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00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,080
And so Michael Cochran
had approached Natalie
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00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,480
and was beginning to wonder
where the money was,
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00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,720
cos apparently some investors
weren't getting their money back.
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00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,640
- The December,
end of January of 2019
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00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,800
the US government
had experienced a shutdown,
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00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,560
but it provided Natalie
a little bit of cushion
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00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,040
and a little bit of time
to fend off the investors,
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00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,560
fend off Michael,
because he was being very adamant
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00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,000
at that time, wanting to know
why they didn't have access
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00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,080
to the wealth that she had told him
that they had.
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00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,600
So as the government shutdown
was ending
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00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,840
and it was being
very well publicised in the media,
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00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,200
she knew that was coming,
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00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,720
so she started telling
all the investors,
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00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,320
including Michael, that the funds
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00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,120
from all their government
contract work was going to be moved
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00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:06,920
to a wealth management account
at the Bank of America in Virginia,
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00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,840
because, according to her,
the banks here in the local area
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00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,400
didn't have the ability to manage
the amount of wealth
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00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,560
that they had accumulated.
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00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,480
Michael Cochrane was literally
at the end of his rope.
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00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,360
He wasn't accusing his wife
of anything.
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00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:30,040
He was directing his anger
and his frustration at the banks,
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00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,080
at the government. All these things
that she was feeding to him,
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00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,160
he was accepting that.
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00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,360
- Natalie and Michael
were about to fly out to Virginia
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00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,480
the morning that Michael fell ill,
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00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,760
and they were going to find out
why their Bank of America account
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00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,320
was not being funded, and this is
$9 million missing at this point.
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00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,680
And if they do that, then Michael
finds out that nothing is real.
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00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,560
Things are not
what they appear to be.
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00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,280
Michael was about to completely
uncover what was going on,
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00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,200
to figure out
that this was all a scam.
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00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,200
He starts asking her,
where is this money?
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00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,880
Why have you not been
paying my family back?
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00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,960
And they're telling me
that they haven't gotten any money.
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00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,440
Also, where's the money
we're supposed to get?
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00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,240
- Michael was getting excuse
after excuse after excuse
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00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,560
as to why the money wasn't coming
into the account
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00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,440
and being paid out to the investors.
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00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,920
So Michael was under the impression
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00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,840
that Bank of America was wrongfully
sitting on all this money
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00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,280
that needed to come out.
The Cochrans,
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00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,520
Natalie, in particular,
chartered a flight
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00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:54,440
from Beckley to Virginia
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00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,800
to meet with the Bank of America
banker handling their account.
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00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:04,000
That was to take place
on the 6th of February, 2019.
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00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,480
- The morning that they are supposed
to take that flight,
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00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,920
Natalie wakes up and says,
oh, I'm really sick.
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00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,320
I need to go to the doctor.
I think I have the flu.
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00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,200
So she goes to the doctor.
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00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,480
Michael says, go ahead
and cancel the flight.
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00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,000
We can go tomorrow.
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00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,640
- We were told by three witnesses
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00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:34,040
that they were summoned by Natalie
to the Cochran residence
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00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,280
on February 6th because she needed
help with Michael,
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00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,640
and she indicated to them
that he had fallen ill
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00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,240
and that she needed help with him.
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00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,320
- She actually took a picture
of Michael
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00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,920
crumpled up in the kitchen floor
and sent it to them,
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00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,920
and of course, people
receiving this are horrified.
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00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,520
- When they got there,
they found him in the kitchen floor,
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00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:04,800
unresponsive, unconscious.
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00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,680
She requested that they place him
on the couch in the living room.
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00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,360
He had had two prior illnesses
leading up to that,
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00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,080
in late October, early November.
She was referencing that to them,
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00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,360
saying that he was sick
like the last time,
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00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,600
and they knew he had been ill
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00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,400
and he had sought medical treatment
for that.
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00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,680
Once they moved him to the couch,
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00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,360
she was checking his vital signs,
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00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,480
to include his blood glucose level.
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00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,240
- There had been a number of people
in and out of the Cochrane home
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00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,400
all urging Natalie to take Michael
to the hospital,
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00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:53,640
and she ignored all of that advice,
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00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,760
claiming that Michael
didn't want to go to the hospital.
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00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,960
But he clearly needed to go.
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00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,640
- Between 7 and 8 p.m.,
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00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,720
Chris Davis came to the house.
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00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,200
He immediately made the decision
that they were going to take Michael
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00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,320
to the hospital, and they drove him
in a personal vehicle,
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00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,200
they didn't wait for an ambulance.
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00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,560
- Michael's family was not contacted
until very late in the night,
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00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,040
after Michael had already gone
to the hospital
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00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,040
and was being transported
to a facility
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00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,120
where he would have
required more care.
186
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,520
- Michael Cochrane
was really big into weightlifting.
187
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:33,200
Natalie said that he would
take a lot of supplements,
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00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,080
apparently handfuls at a time.
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00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,800
She said he would take
anabolic steroids
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00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,880
on a dropper and that sort of thing
in his mouth.
191
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,320
Natalie Cochrane said
192
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,720
that was maybe one of the reasons
that he died.
193
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,800
- I first learned about this case
in March of 2019.
194
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,640
My colleague
that I was working with at the time,
195
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,160
Mr Heinzman, and I had just
completed a cold case investigation
196
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,080
that we had worked on together,
197
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,680
but we had also been working towards
identifying other cases
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00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,840
moving forward
that we wanted to try to work on.
199
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,200
So I had a couple of those lined up
and he said,
200
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,040
let me tell you about this case
that I just heard about.
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00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,520
He had happened to cross paths
202
00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:52,840
with another
West Virginia state trooper
203
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,000
by the name of Sergeant Alan Marsh.
204
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,640
Sergeant Marsh was telling him
about a friend of his
205
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,720
who was a local business owner.
206
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,760
He had entered into some type
of investment with Natalie Cochran.
207
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,320
He was concerned
because he had quite a bit of money
208
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,560
tied up in this deal,
and he wasn't even trying
209
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,160
to get law enforcement involved
necessarily, he said,
210
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,640
I just want to get my money back.
211
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,880
I don't want anybody
to get in trouble with the law.
212
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,680
That's the resolution I'm seeking.
213
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,640
But in that conversation,
214
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,920
he also says
Natalie Cochran's husband
215
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,600
recently passed away
under suspicious circumstances.
216
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,280
All those red flags
were just jumping out,
217
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,040
and I told Bob, I said,
218
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,320
well, even on on its face, I said,
that is suspicious.
219
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:58,120
I said, you know, and there was
no immediate rush to judgment,
220
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,520
it was just one of those things
221
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,960
that we have the time
to investigate this. That's our job.
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00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,840
This was something that was fresh,
and I was like,
223
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,960
let's focus on that, you know?
224
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,760
And he agreed,
and we started the investigation.
225
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,440
There was no thought process
from the beginning
226
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,200
that this was a murder.
227
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,800
There were just telltale signs
that there was a lot more happening
228
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,760
than what met the eye.
229
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,560
We met with
the United States Attorney's Office
230
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,800
for the Southern District
of West Virginia,
231
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,720
because we realised
that pretty early on
232
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,440
that if the financial scheme
was of the magnitude
233
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,000
that we believed it was
that they were best suited
234
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,960
to prosecute those crimes,
if there were crimes identified.
235
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,640
They were very receptive
to the case,
236
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:58,560
and that gave us the subpoena powers
that we really needed
237
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,240
to really get
the financial documentation
238
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:02,720
to take a really deep dive
239
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,720
into what was going on
with Tactical Solutions Group.
240
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,840
- One of our investigators,
Bob Heinzmann,
241
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,080
going through the transactions,
said, this is a Ponzi scheme.
242
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,080
- A Ponzi scheme is essentially
where a person gets investors
243
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,040
to invest in a company
that doesn't exist.
244
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,080
And they continue to get investors
and sort of perhaps
245
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,760
the second tier of investors
provides money.
246
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,680
And the person who's operating
the Ponzi scheme
247
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,760
would then perhaps use
some of that money
248
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,320
to pay the initial investors.
It kind of has a snowball effect.
249
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,480
- She had run this massive
Ponzi scheme, and had gotten
250
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,560
lots of local business people
who I knew specifically,
251
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,160
taken them for
basically everything that they had.
252
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,160
- I think people would be surprised
that there was that much money
253
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,880
in southern West Virginia
that you could bilk people out of,
254
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,360
but people cashed in
retirement plans
255
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,920
to join her parade of horrors.
256
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,080
For the most part,
257
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,880
they were friends, family or both.
258
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,560
But there were some other people.
She took advantage
259
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,760
of some high end professionals,
lawyers, dentists, smart people.
260
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,040
But they fell for Natalie's line.
261
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,640
- Natalie's Ponzi scheme involved
obtaining investors to invest
262
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,760
in two of her companies
that were purportedly
263
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,920
dealing with federal contractors
to provide goods and services,
264
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,040
primarily
to the Department of Defense.
265
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,800
- And what she would do is,
she would claim that she had
266
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,280
a government contract
that was going to generate
267
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,360
huge amounts of money. I mean,
268
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,640
we're talking about
hundreds of millions of dollars
269
00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,600
in turning over these contracts.
270
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,680
And what she would do, essentially,
271
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,080
is, she would get investor one
to put in money,
272
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,280
then she would go to investor two
to put in money,
273
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,520
and as long as she kept
enough people happy...
274
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,600
She was paying out
some of the money,
275
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,240
but it was other investors' money
or loans,
276
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,560
and she'd say, you know,
you could take this money right now,
277
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,720
but I've got a contract coming up
in two weeks
278
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,160
and it's going to generate
huge amounts of money.
279
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,160
Why don't you take
a little bit of cash
280
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,960
and we'll roll that over
into the next contract?
281
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:34,440
And that's what people did.
282
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,360
- She would manufacture
fake contracts
283
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,520
to show potential investors.
284
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,040
She then obtained
approximately $2.5 million
285
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,560
from various investors
286
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,280
in support of these fake contracts.
287
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:57,080
She used fake documentation also
about her companies
288
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,920
to obtain either lines of credit
or loans
289
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,920
from financial institutions.
290
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,920
So from both of those sources
of income,
291
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,760
she at times would pay investors
to lull them
292
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,960
into thinking that her businesses
were legitimate.
293
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,640
Most of the money, however,
went to her own personal accounts.
294
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:21,120
- Natalie Cochran left
a huge electronic trail of evidence.
295
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:26,960
The text messages between Michael
and Natalie were 1600 pages,
296
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:30,760
and you could just see the pattern.
297
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,160
And there was the same pattern
Natalie used
298
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,560
with all the other text messaging
that went out to her investors.
299
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,360
There was always an excuse.
Always, the money's on the way,
300
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,560
here's the wire transfer number,
301
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,880
wire transfers come out
between such and such a day
302
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,560
and such and such a time.
All of it just nonsense.
303
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,120
That's what she was telling people,
304
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,600
and they kind of
wanted to believe it.
305
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,560
And Michael kind of wanted
to believe it, too,
306
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,680
because he just couldn't
face the fact
307
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,680
that money was not being paid out.
308
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,160
There was a local businessman
who has got to be
309
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,800
one of the luckiest people
in Raleigh County,
310
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,960
because he was going to buy
half of her non-existent business
311
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,640
for $4.9 million.
312
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,400
When the search warrant
was executed,
313
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,440
the investigators found
the contract for that sale:
314
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,280
he had already wired $50,000
315
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,480
to act as earnest money,
316
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,880
but he was about to send
another 500,000,
317
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,800
and he didn't,
because they went to him and said,
318
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,040
we think this is a bad idea,
and here's why.
319
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,880
- The point at which they felt
they had enough evidence
320
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,280
to charge her
was at the time of the search,
321
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,800
and the search was just sort of
the final part of the investigation.
322
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,640
I think they felt very comfortable,
323
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,360
and we felt comfortable
there was enough to charge her.
324
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,120
- The U.S. Attorney's Office
prosecuted her on the Ponzi scheme.
325
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,360
- There were 26 total counts
in the indictment itself.
326
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,480
So what we did was kind of
just picked representative counts,
327
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,560
two counts: one of wire fraud,
which was, you know,
328
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,680
sort of the main thing
that she was doing,
329
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,200
then the unlawful money transaction
or money laundering.
330
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,400
- Judge Volk, who sentenced her,
said that he was surprised
331
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,640
that the U.S. Attorney's Office
was as lenient with her
332
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,400
as they were: he thought
she deserved more time,
333
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,080
but couldn't give it to her
due to the plea agreement.
334
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,560
- She only pled
to one of the wire fraud counts.
335
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,440
In terms
of calculating her sentence,
336
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,000
the money that's involved
in all the counts
337
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,360
is added up and included.
338
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,720
So she's still responsible
for all that.
339
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,560
She was sentenced
for one count of wire fraud
340
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,520
and one count
of an unlawful money transaction.
341
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,440
So 11 years
for a white collar crime
342
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,800
for a person
who has no criminal history.
343
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,440
- Outside of
the Ponzi scheme conviction,
344
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,600
the biggest benefit was actually
then being able to sit down
345
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,040
with people
who were close to Natalie
346
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,480
who were victims
of the Ponzi scheme,
347
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,080
because some of the folks,
even when we told them,
348
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,080
hey, this is a Ponzi scheme,
you're a victim here,
349
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,120
they didn't want to believe it.
If you're a business person,
350
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,240
you don't want to feel like
you've been played for a fool.
351
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,720
It just shows
her level of manipulation.
352
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,920
The problem is not you.
The problem's her.
353
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,560
And we're here to help you.
But you got to let us help you.
354
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,560
You've got to tell us the truth
and tell us everything you know
355
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,880
and everything you did with her.
And when we broke down that barrier
356
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,000
and they started doing that,
then we were able
357
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,440
to ask the really hard questions
about Michael's death.
358
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,640
You're trying to put yourself
in Natalie Cochran's position
359
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,040
and to look at the chessboard
the way they see it.
360
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:26,360
And that's something I never wanted
to do because I'm not that person.
361
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,080
I'm not like Natalie Cochrane.
362
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,160
I'm not like people
who do these kind of crimes.
363
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:36,080
But in order to investigate 'em,
you've got to get pretty damn close
364
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,280
to putting yourself in their shoes.
365
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,400
The reiteration of a thought
that I've had for many years
366
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,320
of doing this is that...
367
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,360
..as much as I want to believe
in the goodness of people...
368
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,360
..the bad that they're capable of
has no limits.
369
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,920
And that's that's a hard way
to look at life. But it's the truth.
370
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,200
- Natalie Cochrane
has a very interesting history.
371
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,800
She was successful as a pharmacist.
372
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,080
They were paying her
$120,000 a year.
373
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,120
The pharmacy she worked for
sent her to school
374
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,480
to get her an MBA
at no cost to her.
375
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,760
In southern West Virginia,
you can do very well at $,120,000
376
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,840
And she was only going up.
377
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,440
I mean, pretty clearly
CVS corporate
378
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,600
thought she had a big future.
Otherwise they wouldn't have paid
379
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,560
for an MBA. But that wasn't enough.
She had to have more.
380
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,200
So she got into
what became her Ponzi scam.
381
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:53,600
And there was just money,
and more money.
382
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,680
That's apparently
all she cared about.
383
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,320
- Natalie Cochran's Ponzi scheme
was that she was taking money
384
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,880
from mostly family members
and friends,
385
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,480
hundreds of thousands of dollars.
386
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,040
- What she did was obtain investors
387
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,520
in those companies,
presented them with fake contracts,
388
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,760
with the idea that
when she fulfilled these contracts
389
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,880
with the federal government,
whatever profit she would make
390
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,320
she would share
with these investors.
391
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,280
There were never any contracts.
Not one.
392
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:38,760
- Natalie Cochran was sentenced
to 135 months in federal custody
393
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,240
for a Ponzi scheme.
394
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:46,400
That in itself, I think,
is a testament to the level of loss
395
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,880
and the level of impact
that her actions had on victims,
396
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,800
on the community, and the judge
took that into consideration.
397
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,560
- The victims
were awarded restitution.
398
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,280
That was part of
the sentencing order by the judge.
399
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,920
As a practical matter,
there's probably not going to be
400
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,640
total restitution,
because we're talking $2.5 million
401
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,720
that she actually received.
402
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,920
There were some expensive items
seized at the time of the search.
403
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,040
Those would have been auctioned off
by the Marshal's Office
404
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,760
and then that gone to restitution.
405
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,680
She was ordered to pay restitution
once she was released from prison.
406
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,840
- This was like a meteor
hitting this community.
407
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,600
It tore people apart.
It tore people's lives apart
408
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,960
financially, emotionally.
409
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:45,600
I mean,
people lost their life savings.
410
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,720
And these are all people
that we all know.
411
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,960
We're all thinking,
that could have been me.
412
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,520
- Any advice I would have to people
413
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,840
so they would not
fall victims of this
414
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,160
is ask questions.
415
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,200
If you hear that your investment
416
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,680
is almost too good to be true,
417
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,080
it's too good to be true.
418
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,600
Because even with
a legitimate investment,
419
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,640
there's always risk. In this case,
people trusted her.
420
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:22,360
She provided great evidence,
though it was totally manufactured,
421
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:23,800
that her company was good.
422
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,800
So it's tough. It's just
get all the information you can get.
423
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,040
- Unfortunately, I think
one of the messages is, be careful.
424
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,840
You can't be as trusting
as West Virginians tend to be,
425
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,520
and that that's kind of sad.
426
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,760
But that is certainly
one of the messages,
427
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,840
and especially if you're going
to cash in your retirement account,
428
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,000
be very careful.
429
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,600
- Elderly people
are typically victims.
430
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,880
I was reading in AARP today
about how to avoid those scams,
431
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,160
almost the whole publication
is dedicated to that.
432
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,240
I think just providing
that information
433
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,000
and just making them more aware
that this kind of thing does happen.
434
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,640
Hopefully the media attention
will bring attention
435
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,040
to this type of crime
and do two things:
436
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,040
number one will serve
to keep people
437
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,920
from committing the kind of crime,
438
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,680
and also just make people aware
that these kind of fraudsters exist,
439
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,760
make them a bit more careful,
440
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,440
so they don't become victims
themselves. So yeah,
441
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,840
and I think any time, no matter
what type of crime
442
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,320
you're talking about,
if the public knows about it
443
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,720
and all aspects of it,
that does serve
444
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,840
to keep those crimes from happening.
445
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,720
- People we identified
that would be
446
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,720
a potentially
very important witness,
447
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,240
possibly in the Ponzi scheme,
we had to talk to them
448
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,920
just about Michael's death.
449
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:04,080
I was trying to work on things
450
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,640
related more specifically
to Michael Cochran
451
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,160
and what happened with him
medically,
452
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,880
because there was no thought process
from the beginning
453
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,520
that this was a murder.
454
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,120
The thought process was
that we don't know,
455
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,760
and there's only one way
to find out.
456
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,440
- 21, which was the blood glucose
level that Michael Cochran had
457
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,440
when he got to
the Raleigh general emergency,
458
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,640
the only way that level
could have been achieved
459
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,120
was by administering
and injecting insulin.
460
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,080
- Insulin is listed
as being a chemical
461
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,280
used to regulate blood sugar.
462
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,400
The human body generates insulin,
human insulin,
463
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,440
and lispro is basically
a different structural isomer
464
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,080
of human insulin.
465
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,320
So it's very, very similar,
it has all the same building blocks.
466
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,520
Two of those blocks are switched
in order.
467
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,120
Instead of it being proline
and lysine,
468
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,080
it's lysine and proline,
hence the name lispro.
469
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,400
Those two are switched,
470
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,680
and they're designed to mimic
the same behaviour of human insulin.
471
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,560
- Natalie Cochran
was not only a pharmacist,
472
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,760
but she also claimed to be
a specialist in diabetes.
473
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,280
And so she would counsel people,
she would help people.
474
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,400
She knew the ins and outs
of diabetes,
475
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,720
and knew very well the consequences
of giving insulin to non-diabetics.
476
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,600
- And Michael Cochran
was not diabetic.
477
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,920
While the government shutdown
was going on,
478
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,880
she had also made the allegation
that she had been diagnosed
479
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,040
with cancer, a form of leukaemia.
480
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,520
And that was not accurate.
She was not.
481
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,000
And... that gave her an excuse
482
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,800
for sympathy from people,
483
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,600
from investors.
484
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,000
Jennifer Davis, being a close friend
of hers, was very aware of that.
485
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,680
So they were texting
about Natalie's condition,
486
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,640
and Natalie told her,
487
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:19,400
due to whatever physical ailment
that she had at that time,
488
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,400
and the treatments
that they were using to help her,
489
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,080
that was going to require
that she would have to use insulin.
490
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,680
- Jennifer has a son
who is diabetic,
491
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,320
so she knew that she could get
that insulin from her.
492
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,160
Jennifer says, do you need
to borrow a bottle?
493
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,960
Natalie says, yes, that might be
easier, just go ahead and do that,
494
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,000
and Jennifer's husband drops off
a bag with a couple of drinks
495
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,440
and the insulin bottle
a couple of hours later.
496
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,080
- Michael's mother did not find out
until close to midnight,
497
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,600
and she was a retired nurse.
498
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,400
If you call her at 1 p.m.,
499
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,800
being a retired nurse,
and she comes to the house,
500
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,200
she's going to say,
I'm calling an ambulance.
501
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,000
And Natalie knew that.
502
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,320
- Natalie was continuing to run
the Ponzi scheme
503
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,760
while Michael was in the hospital.
Still trying to solicit contracts.
504
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,280
still reaching out to investors,
trying to get people to participate.
505
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,600
It turns out
that while Michael's unconscious,
506
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,960
Natalie is actually in his phone
and using it
507
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,160
and pretending to be him
to other people.
508
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,960
She also had a scholarship
in his memory,
509
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:36,800
with no money.
510
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,040
She awarded scholarships
to a number of students
511
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,600
for four years
of a college education,
512
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,840
sometimes five years
of college education.
513
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,360
There was no money to support that,
514
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,640
but it diverted attention
for a while.
515
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,120
When they executed
the search warrant,
516
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,280
they found a bottle of insulin
in her refrigerator.
517
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,440
It was identical to the insulin
518
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,600
that Natalie
had fraudulently acquired,
519
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,840
but the insulin was still
in the house in June,
520
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,480
and Michael died in February.
521
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,280
- This case was submitted
to the lab in 2021.
522
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,360
I started working in June of 2021.
523
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,960
- The medical evidence in this case
was very important,
524
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,080
because we were operating
on a purely circumstantial case.
525
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,560
We had
absolutely no direct evidence.
526
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,360
There's no eyewitness,
there's no smoking gun.
527
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,480
We don't have DNA,
anything like that
528
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,680
in this sort of case.
529
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,440
So the fact that we have
medical evidence that says
530
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,760
Michael got to the hospital
and his blood glucose was 21
531
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:44,920
is huge.
532
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,160
- This is a very unique case.
The Ponzi scheme and a murder
533
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,560
is just something
that you don't see very often.
534
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,160
- One reason that I was brought
into the case
535
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,680
was to deal with the victims
sort of pre-trial.
536
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,880
I've done a lot of that work.
dealing with victims, witnesses
537
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,760
and that sort of thing.
538
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:18,040
So we dealt with Michael's mom
and stepdad a good deal.
539
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,800
They just had
a whole mix of emotions,
540
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:22,920
because this was
their daughter-in-law,
541
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,640
and it was a daughter-in-law
that they cared about.
542
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,920
They were hurt. They were angry,
543
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,080
including sometimes anger at us.
544
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,400
The case got delayed once
after I got in, and that happens,
545
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,080
and we had to explain to them
that this was normal,
546
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,120
and sort of alleviate any fears.
I think
547
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,240
they were afraid
she'd get away with it.
548
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,360
- We tried the murder case
549
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,160
five years
after the Ponzi scheme was resolved.
550
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:58,200
Every conference and every time
that I could see her do anything,
551
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,480
she was constantly trying
to tell her attorneys what to do.
552
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,840
She was writing notes feverishly
and passing them to them,
553
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,800
and I don't think she ever thought
the trial would take place
554
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,600
or that she'd get convicted.
555
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,120
- We tried to keep our arguments
pretty straightforward
556
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,760
and pretty in line,
as opposed to the defence,
557
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,960
who touted
five or six different theories.
558
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,240
But our theory of the case
559
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,800
was Michael was about to uncover
the Ponzi scheme,
560
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,640
and Natalie
could not allow that to happen.
561
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,400
So she obtained insulin
from her friend Jennifer
562
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,640
because she was
a diabetic counselor,
563
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,360
knew what insulin would do
to the body, injected him with it,
564
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,640
and then made sure
that he didn't receive
565
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,400
adequate medical care
until it was too late.
566
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,840
I think the text messages
were the main thing
567
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,600
that showed that the Ponzi scheme
was related to the murder,
568
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,000
because we could look at those
and we can see
569
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,760
Natalie giving Michael excuses
over and over
570
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,160
about where money is,
why money is missing,
571
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,080
when it's going to show up, why
it hasn't shown up on those dates.
572
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:14,440
Then there comes this date
that Michael is promised
573
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,880
we're going to see our money today.
574
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,360
He becomes so sick
that he never wakes up again.
575
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,120
- The main arguments by the defence
were that Michael was involved
576
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,320
in this
every bit as much as Natalie,
577
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,000
that Michael was this big, strong,
tough, healthy guy
578
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:41,320
that physically dominated her
and his children,
579
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,920
or that he was so sickly
he was going to die anyhow,
580
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,080
and that there's no connection
between anything Natalie did
581
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,440
and his death. That's kind of
a summary of the defence approach.
582
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,400
The two Cochran children that were
the product of the marriage
583
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,600
both testified
on behalf of their mom.
584
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,880
I felt sorry for them. They had had
a horrible five, six years,
585
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,200
and they tried their best
to help their mom.
586
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,280
- Michael's family
I've gotten to be kind of close to
587
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,800
over the last few years.
My heart breaks for them.
588
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,160
My heart breaks
for Michael Cochran's children.
589
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,720
They're the additional victims here
that nobody talks about.
590
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,840
We talk about the victims
of the Ponzi scheme,
591
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,560
about Michael Cochran
being a victim,
592
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,640
those two children
are just as much victims as anyone.
593
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,760
You know,
they didn't ask for any of this.
594
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,720
They were just born
into that family
595
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,960
and then there they are.
That was just heartbreaking.
596
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,200
And I hope that at some point
in their lives
597
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,720
they're able to reconcile with this.
598
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,000
To see her sit there as a mother
599
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,280
and allow her children
to go through that,
600
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,000
knowing she could have prevented it,
601
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,000
that showed me who she really is.
602
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,640
- From my getting to know her
603
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,120
strictly through the prosecution
of this case,
604
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,040
she was very smart,
she was very good at talking.
605
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,920
I think she had
no problems with self-esteem.
606
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,560
She was able to talk her way
out of everything,
607
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:23,280
and I suspect that she thought that
right up to the end.
608
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,640
- I still believe she thinks that.
609
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,640
I think that she still believes
that people are going to
610
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,200
just believe her
because she's Natalie Cochran.
611
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,640
That was what she got by on
for so long,
612
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,680
and was able to fool so many people.
613
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,560
- Mike was one of my best friends.
614
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,880
MAN: You miss him?
615
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,520
- His testimony was so emotional,
cos it's his best friend he lost,
616
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,360
that I think it came across
as very raw and very genuine.
617
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:04,760
His wife also testified, and she was
again extremely emotional,
618
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,520
because she was not only very close
with the Cochrans as a whole,
619
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,960
but she believed that Natalie
was one of her best friends,
620
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,480
and she's been deceived by her
to such a level
621
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,560
that she manipulated her
into providing the murder weapon
622
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:23,760
for her husband.
623
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,280
So those two, I thought,
624
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,520
were particularly moving
particularly important for our case.
625
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,640
That moment
had a lot of shock value.
626
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,000
The jury, I think they kind of knew
at that very moment.
627
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:43,200
JUDGE: It is the judgment and ruling
of the court
628
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,520
that the defendant,
Natalie Paige Cochran,
629
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,600
be committed
to the penitentiary of this state
630
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,920
for her natural life.
631
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,000
- There's every indication,
based upon what we saw,
632
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,120
that she has zero remorse.
633
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,360
She's never taken any responsibility
for what she did.
634
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,920
She's always content to deflect.
It's everybody else's fault
635
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,640
but hers. And the facts
just don't support her on that.
636
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,640
I mean, there's no doubt in my mind
637
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,560
she did
exactly what we accused her of.
638
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:25,280
And if given her druthers,
she would try some other scam,
639
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,920
and clearly she's not afraid
to kill people to achieve her goals.
640
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,480
There's no reason
to think she wouldn't do it again.
641
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,280
- With Michael's family, nothing
that we do can bring their son back,
642
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,040
but this is a sense of closure
for them, I think.
643
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,720
It's probably the most closure
that we could have gotten for them.
644
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,040
So I think that they can
finally start to move on
645
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,040
and live their lives
and let Michael rest.
646
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:01,120
- Had it not been
for just a chance encounter
647
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,840
between Trooper Marsh
and this investor
648
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,880
having a conversation as friends,
cos they're friends,
649
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,760
he didn't seek Marsh out
to tell him about this,
650
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,320
they just happened to cross paths
and were talking, and he's like,
651
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,720
hey, by the way.
One of those conversations.
652
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:24,400
So I don't know, you know,
what your belief system is,
653
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,000
but is that divine intervention?
654
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,440
Is it fate? You know, whatever label
you want to put on it.
655
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,680
Uh... I don't know,
656
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,440
but I'll take it.
If that hadn't happened,
657
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,120
we wouldn't be having
this conversation, I promise you.
658
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,880
- Our investigative team
was absolutely wonderful.
659
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,760
They have been working on this case
since 2019,
660
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,640
so six years
before it went to trial,
661
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,280
from the time
that they started working on it.
662
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,560
And there is no way that we could
have done this without them.
663
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:02,720
They were so diligent
and so thorough,
664
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,880
and they did not
leave a single stone unturned.
665
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,320
I mean, the number of people
they must have met and spoken with
666
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,000
during this investigation
667
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:16,520
is probably more than I will talk to
in the next ten years of my career.
668
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,360
-What I do know is
it's a trust game
669
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:29,400
and the victims lose... by trusting.
670
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:35,080
And... that's a...
that's a hard thing to say,
671
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:40,800
because I don't want people to be
any more suspicious of other people
672
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,160
than they already are, you know?
673
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,800
And that's why these crimes
are so impactful,
674
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,120
because they erode
our trust in one another.
675
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,120
They erode at the things
676
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,480
that make us want to believe
in other humans.
677
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:02,240
And it's just... it's sickening
that these things happen,
678
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,440
that, you know...
there's so many ways
679
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,320
to make money in this world.
680
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,240
It's just a lazy-ass way
to make money
681
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,280
by stealing off people
that love you,
682
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:14,720
or people who trust in you.
683
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,600
I have no tolerance for it.
684
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,280
Michael Cochrane was on a quest.
685
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,720
He was on a quest
to find out where his money was.
686
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,640
And that's all it was.
If you read the text messages,
687
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,760
he's just trying to find out
where... you tell me I'm wealthy,
688
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,200
show me the money, where's it at?
689
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,640
And every time
he would get this close,
690
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,080
something would happen.
691
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:45,720
But February 6th,
he wasn't this close,
692
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,000
he was going to walk in the door
at the Bank of America,
693
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,840
and that was it. And she knew that.
694
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,240
It was... just like anything,
695
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,760
It just came to a head,
and it was going to erupt.
696
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,240
And she had to stop that.
697
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,840
And that's what's so tragic for him.
698
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,080
He trusted his wife,
699
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:09,600
and it cost him his life.
700
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,840
(high-tempo, dramatic music)
701
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,960
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