1 00:00:10,011 --> 00:00:13,222 -The national spotlight is now focused on Orlando. 2 00:00:13,264 --> 00:00:16,559 -It's happening -- the most closely watched case 3 00:00:16,601 --> 00:00:19,562 maybe ever, or certainly since O.J. Simpson. 4 00:00:19,604 --> 00:00:23,399 -In the court of public opinion, Casey was already guilty. 5 00:00:23,441 --> 00:00:25,234 [ Twitter notifications whistling ] 6 00:00:25,276 --> 00:00:29,238 -As difficult as it may be for anyone to accept 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,240 that a mother would intentionally 8 00:00:31,282 --> 00:00:32,909 kill her own child, 9 00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:35,661 there is no other conclusion. 10 00:00:35,703 --> 00:00:41,250 -This case was full of purported evidence against Casey. 11 00:00:41,292 --> 00:00:43,753 -Evidence of duct tape found over the mouth 12 00:00:43,795 --> 00:00:45,254 of the child's skull, 13 00:00:45,296 --> 00:00:46,923 high levels of chloroform found 14 00:00:46,964 --> 00:00:48,925 in the trunk of Casey's car. 15 00:00:48,966 --> 00:00:52,261 -But when they did some testing on the remains, 16 00:00:52,303 --> 00:00:55,306 no chloroform was found, no drugs. 17 00:00:55,348 --> 00:00:59,102 There was no DNA at all on the duct tape. 18 00:00:59,143 --> 00:01:02,522 -It appeared to be that she was behaving incorrectly. 19 00:01:02,563 --> 00:01:04,816 -They say she went to clubs, got her nails done, 20 00:01:04,857 --> 00:01:07,527 got a tattoo that said "Good life." 21 00:01:07,568 --> 00:01:09,612 -During the 31 days, I genuinely believed 22 00:01:09,654 --> 00:01:11,406 that Caylee was still alive. 23 00:01:11,447 --> 00:01:14,659 My father kept telling me she was okay. 24 00:01:14,700 --> 00:01:17,954 I just had to keep following his instructions. 25 00:01:17,995 --> 00:01:19,622 It was like I was brainwashed. 26 00:01:19,664 --> 00:01:22,250 And it wasn't until much later 27 00:01:22,291 --> 00:01:25,420 that I started to really realize why. 28 00:01:25,461 --> 00:01:28,256 I wasn't the only one home. 29 00:01:28,297 --> 00:01:29,799 I'm not outright accusing him of murder, 30 00:01:29,841 --> 00:01:33,636 but it wasn't an accident in the pool. 31 00:01:33,678 --> 00:01:35,722 ** 32 00:01:44,272 --> 00:01:50,611 ** 33 00:01:50,653 --> 00:01:53,197 [ Indistinct conversations ] 34 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:59,370 ** 35 00:01:59,412 --> 00:02:02,331 -After 19 days of testimony, the prosecution rests 36 00:02:02,373 --> 00:02:04,000 in their case against Casey Anthony. 37 00:02:04,041 --> 00:02:07,128 -They announced this afternoon that there would be a verdict. 38 00:02:07,170 --> 00:02:09,338 ** 39 00:02:09,380 --> 00:02:11,716 -My life was literally hanging by a thread 40 00:02:11,758 --> 00:02:12,925 at that point. 41 00:02:12,967 --> 00:02:18,181 My potential of any kind of future hinged on 42 00:02:18,222 --> 00:02:20,767 the decision that those 12 people made. 43 00:02:20,808 --> 00:02:27,899 ** 44 00:02:33,863 --> 00:02:36,824 I don't -- I'm rarely at a loss for words. 45 00:02:36,866 --> 00:02:39,577 This is -- This is one of those moments. 46 00:02:40,661 --> 00:02:43,664 I can't describe to you how it feels 47 00:02:43,706 --> 00:02:47,627 except to say I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy. 48 00:02:47,668 --> 00:02:49,379 I wouldn't wish this upon any of the people 49 00:02:49,420 --> 00:02:51,089 who were trying to kill me or any of the people 50 00:02:51,130 --> 00:02:53,549 who would be watching this and still thinking that I'm guilty. 51 00:02:53,591 --> 00:02:56,386 I wouldn't wish this upon anyone, ever. 52 00:02:56,427 --> 00:02:58,513 That's how bad it is. 53 00:02:58,554 --> 00:03:02,058 This is what hell feels like, is what I was put through 54 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:03,601 for those three years. 55 00:03:03,643 --> 00:03:07,563 ** 56 00:03:07,605 --> 00:03:09,607 -Let's return the jury. 57 00:03:12,443 --> 00:03:15,571 Madam clerk, you may publish the verdicts. 58 00:03:18,991 --> 00:03:22,078 As to the charge of first-degree murder, 59 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,746 we, the jury, find the defendant 60 00:03:23,788 --> 00:03:25,748 not guilty. 61 00:03:25,790 --> 00:03:29,419 ** 62 00:03:29,460 --> 00:03:33,297 As to the charge of aggravated child abuse, 63 00:03:33,339 --> 00:03:34,966 we, the jury, find the defendant 64 00:03:35,007 --> 00:03:36,926 not guilty. 65 00:03:36,968 --> 00:03:40,012 ** 66 00:03:40,054 --> 00:03:41,514 -When that verdict was read, 67 00:03:41,556 --> 00:03:44,642 we have this massive team embrace. 68 00:03:46,602 --> 00:03:49,605 They saved my life. 69 00:03:49,647 --> 00:03:53,443 After three years of dread and sadness, 70 00:03:53,484 --> 00:03:57,447 finally, they proved my innocence. 71 00:04:01,367 --> 00:04:03,619 -That was the beginning of Casey's 72 00:04:03,661 --> 00:04:07,373 carefully constructed coping mechanisms 73 00:04:07,415 --> 00:04:10,293 just cracking and slowly falling apart. 74 00:04:10,334 --> 00:04:13,629 That hug that Dorothy Clay Sims gave her 75 00:04:13,671 --> 00:04:16,591 of love and comfort and support, 76 00:04:16,632 --> 00:04:19,635 she allowed that and needed it 77 00:04:19,677 --> 00:04:22,055 and knew she needed it. 78 00:04:22,096 --> 00:04:23,973 ** 79 00:04:24,015 --> 00:04:27,894 -I just lost control and just began sobbing. 80 00:04:27,935 --> 00:04:32,023 It was such a relief. Such a relief. 81 00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:35,818 Even though the jury came back with a not guilty verdict, 82 00:04:35,860 --> 00:04:37,820 we were really afraid for her life. 83 00:04:37,862 --> 00:04:40,406 We were all looking at each other saying, 84 00:04:40,448 --> 00:04:41,991 "Oh, my God, now what do we do?" 85 00:04:42,033 --> 00:04:44,619 -We know how the court of public opinion feels about this. 86 00:04:44,660 --> 00:04:47,497 Lot of people feel very surprised by this verdict. 87 00:04:50,124 --> 00:04:51,501 -Casey's a murderer! 88 00:04:51,542 --> 00:04:54,003 -They will kill Casey if they had a chance. 89 00:04:54,045 --> 00:04:57,131 -Casey Anthony's defense lawyers reported several death threats 90 00:04:57,173 --> 00:04:59,467 against her, including an image that showed her 91 00:04:59,509 --> 00:05:00,885 with a bullet through her head. 92 00:05:00,927 --> 00:05:03,471 ** 93 00:05:03,513 --> 00:05:05,723 -We were all getting so many death threats. 94 00:05:05,765 --> 00:05:08,101 They were talking about my children. 95 00:05:08,142 --> 00:05:11,270 We knew we had to get the hell out of Dodge. 96 00:05:11,312 --> 00:05:12,563 [ Crowd shouting ] 97 00:05:12,605 --> 00:05:14,857 We needed to escape. 98 00:05:14,899 --> 00:05:23,825 ** 99 00:05:23,866 --> 00:05:32,542 ** 100 00:05:32,583 --> 00:05:34,210 [ Helicopter blades whirring ] 101 00:05:34,252 --> 00:05:39,215 ** 102 00:05:39,257 --> 00:05:41,634 I rented a house in the Panhandle, 103 00:05:41,676 --> 00:05:45,096 and I collected Casey. 104 00:05:45,138 --> 00:05:49,934 And we went into this rental house, and Pat was there. 105 00:05:49,976 --> 00:05:52,270 -I've been doing this as a private investigator 106 00:05:52,311 --> 00:05:53,563 38 years. 107 00:05:53,604 --> 00:05:55,523 Done a lot of high-profile cases. 108 00:05:55,565 --> 00:05:58,151 I was a bodyguard for Yoko Ono. 109 00:06:00,611 --> 00:06:03,573 The media was burying this girl. 110 00:06:03,614 --> 00:06:06,909 There were a lot of death threats to her. 111 00:06:06,951 --> 00:06:10,830 It was just out of control, and so I sensed that 112 00:06:10,872 --> 00:06:14,250 it would get worse if we didn't have a plan. 113 00:06:14,292 --> 00:06:17,587 So now I'm, like, all-in, right? 114 00:06:17,628 --> 00:06:19,672 I don't know, maybe it's the Marine in me. 115 00:06:19,714 --> 00:06:20,923 I want to fight. We don't leave 116 00:06:20,965 --> 00:06:23,760 the wounded behind after battle. 117 00:06:25,636 --> 00:06:28,723 She had been convicted of lying to the police, 118 00:06:28,765 --> 00:06:31,017 which is a felony, and I knew we had to 119 00:06:31,059 --> 00:06:33,186 get her through a year of probation. 120 00:06:33,227 --> 00:06:37,065 It hit me that there was really no good plan for her. 121 00:06:37,106 --> 00:06:40,818 -We didn't know where she should go, where she should live. 122 00:06:40,860 --> 00:06:42,987 I was, at the time, decided I was leaving the country 123 00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:46,115 and moving to France, and I had considered 124 00:06:46,157 --> 00:06:48,284 having her stay with us. It didn't occur to me 125 00:06:48,326 --> 00:06:51,162 that she couldn't get a passport because of a felony conviction. 126 00:06:51,204 --> 00:06:53,915 So she couldn't leave the country. 127 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:59,670 -Do you need another water or are you good? 128 00:06:59,712 --> 00:07:00,922 You gonna grab one? -I'm gonna get one 129 00:07:00,963 --> 00:07:03,883 out of the fridge. -Okay. 130 00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:07,637 Here. For you. -Get one of these. 131 00:07:07,678 --> 00:07:08,805 Thank you. 132 00:07:08,846 --> 00:07:10,890 -Pat McKenna took in Casey 133 00:07:10,932 --> 00:07:13,351 when everybody else stepped away. 134 00:07:13,393 --> 00:07:14,727 -I got napkins in the cabinet. 135 00:07:14,769 --> 00:07:17,230 -Coffee-stained napkins. -I don't care, I recycle. 136 00:07:17,271 --> 00:07:20,149 -Frankly, our job was done as the lawyers. 137 00:07:20,191 --> 00:07:24,320 You don't take care of someone after the trial is over, 138 00:07:24,362 --> 00:07:26,197 but he did. 139 00:07:26,239 --> 00:07:32,370 ** 140 00:07:32,412 --> 00:07:35,248 -Yeah, you sit in the shade. I'll sit in the sun. 141 00:07:35,289 --> 00:07:37,667 ** 142 00:07:37,708 --> 00:07:40,253 -I'm using my fingers. 143 00:07:40,294 --> 00:07:41,963 -[ Laughs ] 144 00:07:42,004 --> 00:07:44,924 -With the approval of my family, 145 00:07:44,966 --> 00:07:46,634 I brought her to my house. 146 00:07:46,676 --> 00:07:48,678 Everybody agreed, and I said I'd, you know, 147 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,639 provide a year's worth of safety for this kid. 148 00:07:51,681 --> 00:07:54,517 -You're still allergic to bees, right? 149 00:07:54,559 --> 00:07:55,893 -Yeah, why? 150 00:07:55,935 --> 00:07:58,020 -There are bees. -Oh, they don't bother me. 151 00:07:58,062 --> 00:07:59,981 -[ Laughs ] 152 00:08:00,022 --> 00:08:02,191 ** 153 00:08:02,233 --> 00:08:05,862 -Being a sole practitioner, I'm a one-man band. 154 00:08:05,903 --> 00:08:08,531 I do my own filing. I'm surrounded by files. 155 00:08:08,573 --> 00:08:10,032 My house is a mess. 156 00:08:10,074 --> 00:08:13,286 And she's very organized, and so I saw that she could 157 00:08:13,327 --> 00:08:15,371 really help me out. 158 00:08:15,413 --> 00:08:19,125 I felt like she needed to do something. 159 00:08:20,126 --> 00:08:22,378 -I wonder if that's the one that 160 00:08:22,420 --> 00:08:24,213 they used after I made adjustments to mine, 161 00:08:24,255 --> 00:08:25,923 because I red-lined a couple things initially. 162 00:08:25,965 --> 00:08:27,633 -Oh, really? -But most of the appearance 163 00:08:27,675 --> 00:08:29,719 releases are standard. 164 00:08:29,761 --> 00:08:30,887 -I don't know. 165 00:08:30,928 --> 00:08:33,181 -Casey lived with Pat. 166 00:08:33,222 --> 00:08:38,394 I mean, she no longer does, but for a long time. 167 00:08:38,436 --> 00:08:41,981 -So, this is an album I made you a couple years ago. 168 00:08:42,023 --> 00:08:44,192 I have so many photos. -Mm-hmm. 169 00:08:44,233 --> 00:08:47,111 -My favorite picture -- [ Laughs ] 170 00:08:47,153 --> 00:08:49,363 I will never not laugh at this. 171 00:08:49,405 --> 00:08:52,283 [ Laughing ] In all the photos, you're always... 172 00:08:52,325 --> 00:08:56,079 Pat offered to let me stay at his house for nothing 173 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,373 until I figured out what my plan was going to be. 174 00:08:59,415 --> 00:09:01,876 -I'm pretty sure that was your 67th. I could look. 175 00:09:01,918 --> 00:09:03,753 He's the guy that would walk me down the aisle 176 00:09:03,795 --> 00:09:06,089 if I was ever dumb enough to get married. 177 00:09:06,130 --> 00:09:09,092 He's the closest thing to a real dad that I've ever had. 178 00:09:10,134 --> 00:09:13,805 -So, we became very close quickly. 179 00:09:16,808 --> 00:09:19,435 She's been in my family for, what, 180 00:09:19,477 --> 00:09:21,938 11 years going strong, so... 181 00:09:21,979 --> 00:09:26,609 This is my little group, and we've had her for, 182 00:09:26,651 --> 00:09:30,196 you know, all holidays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving. 183 00:09:30,238 --> 00:09:32,573 You know, and then just Sunday dinners. 184 00:09:32,615 --> 00:09:35,034 You know, she's become part of our whole extended 185 00:09:35,076 --> 00:09:37,286 group of people, family and friends. 186 00:09:37,328 --> 00:09:38,704 ** 187 00:09:38,746 --> 00:09:44,127 When I took Casey in, one of the rules was no photos 188 00:09:44,168 --> 00:09:48,089 so that it wouldn't get out to the media where Casey was. 189 00:09:48,131 --> 00:09:52,593 But, you know, she's got more of a family here 190 00:09:52,635 --> 00:09:56,973 than she ever had in Orlando, in Ohio, or wherever. 191 00:09:57,014 --> 00:09:59,308 She became like a daughter. 192 00:09:59,350 --> 00:10:05,273 ** 193 00:10:05,314 --> 00:10:10,194 -He taught her how to be a person and live her life. 194 00:10:10,236 --> 00:10:16,784 She engaged in deep therapy, and the relationship 195 00:10:16,826 --> 00:10:19,996 that you built with her, 196 00:10:20,037 --> 00:10:24,917 you had to move slowly because there were obvious trust issues. 197 00:10:24,959 --> 00:10:28,337 Not specific to anyone, but specific to everyone. 198 00:10:28,379 --> 00:10:32,467 She didn't have anyone. She was on her own. 199 00:10:32,508 --> 00:10:34,927 She felt hurt and betrayed. 200 00:10:34,969 --> 00:10:38,181 She had everyone she considered a friend 201 00:10:38,222 --> 00:10:40,975 sharing with the world every uncomfortable 202 00:10:41,017 --> 00:10:42,894 and embarrassing moment 203 00:10:42,935 --> 00:10:46,189 or conversation that she ever had. 204 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:47,857 -I always thought of myself as a pretty good 205 00:10:47,899 --> 00:10:50,068 judge of character, and, you know, 206 00:10:50,109 --> 00:10:53,071 she completely fooled all of us. 207 00:10:55,490 --> 00:11:02,246 There is absolutely nothing that Casey could ever say to anybody 208 00:11:02,288 --> 00:11:05,416 that is going to make me believe that she wasn't 209 00:11:05,458 --> 00:11:11,923 in some way responsible or involved with Caylee's death. 210 00:11:11,964 --> 00:11:14,217 -So, the lies make it hard 211 00:11:14,258 --> 00:11:17,595 to not think that she did murder this child. 212 00:11:17,637 --> 00:11:21,849 -When the story broke and the nanny's name got dropped, 213 00:11:21,891 --> 00:11:24,769 Zanny the Nanny, I stood up and said, 214 00:11:24,811 --> 00:11:27,980 "She was using Xanax to babysit her kid." 215 00:11:28,022 --> 00:11:34,237 I fully believe that Caylee was overdosed with Xanax. 216 00:11:34,278 --> 00:11:35,863 -Did you ever give Xanax to Caylee? 217 00:11:35,905 --> 00:11:37,907 -No, I never gave Caylee anything 218 00:11:37,949 --> 00:11:40,159 other than cold medicine when she had a cold. 219 00:11:40,201 --> 00:11:42,245 That was some concocted bullshit story, 220 00:11:42,286 --> 00:11:44,914 whether by the media or someone affiliated. 221 00:11:44,956 --> 00:11:46,416 There trying to piece things together 222 00:11:46,457 --> 00:11:50,044 that don't fit into anything because they don't exist. 223 00:11:50,086 --> 00:11:52,130 None of that is real. 224 00:11:52,171 --> 00:11:55,883 -I never saw Casey with Xanax. 225 00:11:55,925 --> 00:12:00,388 I never saw her give Caylee any Xanax. 226 00:12:00,430 --> 00:12:07,186 But just the fact that Zanny the Nanny was said, 227 00:12:07,228 --> 00:12:10,148 just sent a lightbulb off in my head. 228 00:12:12,024 --> 00:12:15,945 Two of the people that I feel the worst for 229 00:12:15,987 --> 00:12:18,114 is Cindy and George. 230 00:12:18,156 --> 00:12:21,075 George and I exchanged a couple e-mails. 231 00:12:21,117 --> 00:12:23,327 I couldn't even begin to understand 232 00:12:23,369 --> 00:12:27,999 what it would be like to not only lose your grandchild, 233 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,086 but to lose your child at the same time, too. 234 00:12:34,088 --> 00:12:35,631 -If Casey's even watching this someday, 235 00:12:35,673 --> 00:12:39,218 yeah, I blame my daughter for Caylee not being here today. 236 00:12:39,260 --> 00:12:42,305 -And you blamed her then and you blame her today? 237 00:12:42,346 --> 00:12:43,514 -Yes, sir, I do. 238 00:12:43,556 --> 00:12:45,308 I do. 239 00:12:45,349 --> 00:12:47,727 -And you all disagree about that? 240 00:12:47,769 --> 00:12:49,979 -We do. 241 00:12:50,021 --> 00:12:52,190 -What happened with my father was irreparable, 242 00:12:52,231 --> 00:12:55,318 and that's how I felt about my mom also. 243 00:12:55,359 --> 00:12:58,321 It's been the same pattern now for 11 years. 244 00:12:58,362 --> 00:13:00,156 My parents, being in the public eye, 245 00:13:00,198 --> 00:13:03,826 throw me under the bus for money. 246 00:13:03,868 --> 00:13:05,495 -What do you think really happened? 247 00:13:05,536 --> 00:13:08,122 -My gut feeling inside, I believe 248 00:13:08,164 --> 00:13:10,333 Caylee was given something and she didn't wake up. 249 00:13:10,374 --> 00:13:13,503 -Do you think she intentionally wanted to kill Caylee? 250 00:13:13,544 --> 00:13:15,380 -I don't think she intentionally wanted to. 251 00:13:15,421 --> 00:13:17,131 -Okay, then that -- -I don't think she 252 00:13:17,173 --> 00:13:20,301 intentionally wanted to, but she should be in jail 253 00:13:20,343 --> 00:13:23,012 because of Caylee not being here. 254 00:13:24,430 --> 00:13:27,392 -I want to think he doesn't have the power to hurt me anymore, 255 00:13:27,433 --> 00:13:30,228 but he still does. 256 00:13:30,269 --> 00:13:32,939 And this was years ago, 257 00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:35,358 this interview. 258 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,985 One of many that he and my mother did separately 259 00:13:38,027 --> 00:13:41,030 and together for money. 260 00:13:41,072 --> 00:13:43,074 For money. 261 00:13:43,116 --> 00:13:45,743 Throw me under the bus for money. 262 00:13:45,785 --> 00:13:47,203 Why? 263 00:13:47,245 --> 00:13:51,457 Why exploit the situation any more than it has been? 264 00:13:55,211 --> 00:13:58,464 I lost everything the day I lost her. 265 00:14:01,092 --> 00:14:02,510 Everything. 266 00:14:02,552 --> 00:14:07,390 And it doesn't matter what I've done in between 267 00:14:07,432 --> 00:14:09,726 in the life I try to live, 268 00:14:09,767 --> 00:14:13,438 and how good I try to be. 269 00:14:13,479 --> 00:14:16,399 Every day, I live with a broken heart. 270 00:14:19,026 --> 00:14:21,237 I want to know why. 271 00:14:23,406 --> 00:14:26,242 I want to know why she was taken out of my arms. 272 00:14:26,284 --> 00:14:27,952 Why didn't he call 911? 273 00:14:27,994 --> 00:14:30,580 I wasn't the only one that was home. 274 00:14:32,623 --> 00:14:34,375 Why? 275 00:14:36,794 --> 00:14:38,421 And why, after all this time, 276 00:14:38,463 --> 00:14:42,300 keep blaming me for something I didn't do? 277 00:14:44,635 --> 00:14:47,180 Why? 278 00:14:57,398 --> 00:14:58,900 ** 279 00:14:58,941 --> 00:15:00,443 -It's literally right here. 280 00:15:00,485 --> 00:15:06,699 -Yes, and recently opened as a small kind of a goth bar. 281 00:15:06,741 --> 00:15:07,992 -[ Laughs ] 282 00:15:08,034 --> 00:15:11,621 -Casey's someone who's like family. 283 00:15:11,662 --> 00:15:16,292 I've had the opportunity to see her, through therapy 284 00:15:16,334 --> 00:15:19,295 and through long-term friendships and love 285 00:15:19,337 --> 00:15:23,216 and support, become this warm, loving, 286 00:15:23,257 --> 00:15:28,388 trusting, hilarious person that I know today. 287 00:15:28,429 --> 00:15:29,806 -You're not gonna let me get this either, are you? 288 00:15:29,847 --> 00:15:31,182 -No. -Ugh, fine. 289 00:15:31,224 --> 00:15:32,809 -I've never asked her about 290 00:15:32,850 --> 00:15:35,311 what occurred with Caylee. 291 00:15:35,353 --> 00:15:37,522 I know what her experience has been, vaguely, 292 00:15:37,563 --> 00:15:43,027 but in terms of digging into the details of it, 293 00:15:43,069 --> 00:15:50,993 I've always given her space and I respect her boundaries. 294 00:15:51,035 --> 00:15:57,625 She's been through so, so much that it's not my place 295 00:15:57,667 --> 00:15:59,502 to do anything but love and support her 296 00:15:59,544 --> 00:16:02,547 and give her space to tell her story 297 00:16:02,588 --> 00:16:07,593 in the time that she feels comfortable doing that. 298 00:16:10,263 --> 00:16:13,725 -I never spoke to Casey about her theory 299 00:16:13,766 --> 00:16:15,852 of what happened to Caylee. 300 00:16:15,893 --> 00:16:17,353 I never pushed. 301 00:16:17,395 --> 00:16:20,690 I'm trying to provide a safe environment for this kid. 302 00:16:20,732 --> 00:16:24,360 Hopefully, make sure she don't implode because she can -- 303 00:16:24,402 --> 00:16:26,362 I always thought, you know, 304 00:16:26,404 --> 00:16:29,699 who knows what could happen to her? 305 00:16:29,741 --> 00:16:31,409 -I know that hearing some of this 306 00:16:31,451 --> 00:16:33,536 is going to make them hurt, too, 307 00:16:33,578 --> 00:16:36,497 because they're going to feel my pain. 308 00:16:39,667 --> 00:16:41,878 And that more than anything is the main reason 309 00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:43,713 I haven't talked about it. 310 00:16:43,755 --> 00:16:48,885 ** 311 00:16:48,926 --> 00:16:51,429 [ Sighs ] 312 00:16:55,308 --> 00:16:59,145 I put my memories into boxes. 313 00:16:59,187 --> 00:17:02,356 It protected me, but also was holding me back 314 00:17:02,398 --> 00:17:06,569 from really dealing with things. 315 00:17:08,279 --> 00:17:10,198 In this process of some of those boxes, 316 00:17:10,239 --> 00:17:14,452 I had to forcibly pull down off of a shelf and unlock. 317 00:17:16,370 --> 00:17:19,207 I have to rip my life back open. 318 00:17:20,917 --> 00:17:26,839 And when I finally was able to start to explore each of them, 319 00:17:26,881 --> 00:17:32,762 no matter how painful or how hurtful the gaps in my memory, 320 00:17:32,804 --> 00:17:36,140 it allowed me to work through some of that. 321 00:17:38,684 --> 00:17:42,438 But now it's all been knocked around on the floor. 322 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,857 And I have to feel that deepest sorrow, 323 00:17:44,899 --> 00:17:47,443 and I'm grieving all over again. 324 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,074 There are just answers I don't have. 325 00:17:53,116 --> 00:17:56,327 And that's been one of the hardest pieces of all of this, 326 00:17:56,369 --> 00:17:57,954 is still not knowing. 327 00:17:57,995 --> 00:18:04,460 ** 328 00:18:04,502 --> 00:18:07,922 My father promised me that I could come home from this place. 329 00:18:10,383 --> 00:18:11,884 I'm remembering him coming and visiting me. 330 00:18:11,926 --> 00:18:14,303 I remember him promising me that I would come home. 331 00:18:14,345 --> 00:18:15,888 I'm remembering him promise me 332 00:18:15,930 --> 00:18:17,306 that everything was going to be okay, 333 00:18:17,348 --> 00:18:18,850 that Caylee was going to be okay. 334 00:18:18,891 --> 00:18:22,145 I'm remembering every fucking day that I spent here. 335 00:18:22,186 --> 00:18:26,899 ** 336 00:18:26,941 --> 00:18:31,195 I still need the same answers that I needed then. 337 00:18:31,237 --> 00:18:33,531 I need to know why all of this happened in the first place 338 00:18:33,573 --> 00:18:36,659 and why he pinned it all in me. 339 00:18:36,701 --> 00:18:38,661 -I walked into your room last night 340 00:18:38,703 --> 00:18:41,456 and just looked around and had a couple 341 00:18:41,497 --> 00:18:43,332 extra little prayers and just said, you know, 342 00:18:43,374 --> 00:18:44,959 "You're coming home soon, sweetheart." 343 00:18:45,001 --> 00:18:49,922 Caylee's gonna be home soon, so you can be that family again. 344 00:18:49,964 --> 00:18:51,382 -[ Sighs ] 345 00:18:51,424 --> 00:18:53,593 [ Chuckles ] 346 00:18:56,721 --> 00:18:59,682 [ Sighs ] 347 00:18:59,724 --> 00:19:01,434 He's telling me that I was coming home soon. 348 00:19:01,476 --> 00:19:02,852 It would all be over soon. 349 00:19:02,894 --> 00:19:05,396 I just had to keep following his instructions. 350 00:19:05,438 --> 00:19:09,609 He told me what he thought I wanted to hear, 351 00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:11,235 that he was supporting me, that I was coming home, 352 00:19:11,277 --> 00:19:12,779 that everything would be okay. 353 00:19:12,820 --> 00:19:14,864 And on national television, acting like he was 354 00:19:14,906 --> 00:19:17,116 supporting me, coming to the jail prior to that, 355 00:19:17,158 --> 00:19:18,576 prior to me ever being indicted. 356 00:19:18,618 --> 00:19:21,454 -I don't believe my daughter could hurt anyone. 357 00:19:21,496 --> 00:19:24,999 -Why do you think she was arrested and charged, George? 358 00:19:25,041 --> 00:19:27,794 -Because like Cindy said, they had their mind made up. 359 00:19:27,835 --> 00:19:30,380 It was just too easy for them to just close the book on this 360 00:19:30,421 --> 00:19:32,382 and say, "Well, we're gonna charge you 361 00:19:32,423 --> 00:19:34,217 with your daughter's disappearance" 362 00:19:34,258 --> 00:19:36,219 and just be done with it. 363 00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:37,929 -In this interview, my father is telling the truth 364 00:19:37,970 --> 00:19:42,809 of my innocence, that law enforcement went after me. 365 00:19:42,850 --> 00:19:45,395 But yet he testified in front of the grand jury 366 00:19:45,436 --> 00:19:48,564 almost two months before this. 367 00:19:48,606 --> 00:19:52,110 -Florida grand jury indicted Casey Anthony on charges 368 00:19:52,151 --> 00:19:53,820 of first-degree murder. 369 00:19:53,861 --> 00:19:57,073 Among those called to testify before the 19-member grand jury 370 00:19:57,115 --> 00:20:01,411 Tuesday was George Anthony, Casey's father. 371 00:20:01,452 --> 00:20:03,621 -I found out that my father had testified against me 372 00:20:03,663 --> 00:20:07,917 at the grand jury on October 14th, 373 00:20:07,959 --> 00:20:11,421 the same day that the grand jury was convened. 374 00:20:11,462 --> 00:20:13,756 Besides law enforcement, the only 375 00:20:13,798 --> 00:20:17,301 non-law enforcement-affiliated individual to be called 376 00:20:17,343 --> 00:20:20,555 to testify was my father, and he was their first witness. 377 00:20:20,596 --> 00:20:24,851 -This is going to be very hard for me to do. 378 00:20:24,892 --> 00:20:27,019 My focus is always on my granddaughter. 379 00:20:27,061 --> 00:20:30,314 It always will be. 380 00:20:30,356 --> 00:20:32,358 -I thought it was very interesting 381 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,154 they chose to put George before the grand jury. 382 00:20:36,195 --> 00:20:37,447 We don't know what he said. 383 00:20:37,488 --> 00:20:39,532 We'll never get to know what he said. 384 00:20:39,574 --> 00:20:41,492 That's confidential, so we have no idea 385 00:20:41,534 --> 00:20:43,453 what they talked to him about. 386 00:20:43,494 --> 00:20:44,954 But we know they wound up 387 00:20:44,996 --> 00:20:49,625 with an indictment to charge her with first-degree murder. 388 00:20:49,667 --> 00:20:51,377 -At that point, did you have any idea 389 00:20:51,419 --> 00:20:54,255 that your father was going to testify against you in that way? 390 00:20:54,297 --> 00:20:56,049 -No. 391 00:20:57,842 --> 00:21:03,139 There were moments and instances that I knew something was off 392 00:21:03,181 --> 00:21:04,974 and I knew something was wrong, and the promises 393 00:21:05,016 --> 00:21:07,477 that he was making, he wasn't keeping. 394 00:21:07,518 --> 00:21:09,687 But after the indictment, 395 00:21:09,729 --> 00:21:13,649 I was able to listen to his interviews with law enforcement. 396 00:21:13,691 --> 00:21:15,485 Just before I was initially arrested, 397 00:21:15,526 --> 00:21:18,446 my father talked to investigators. 398 00:21:18,488 --> 00:21:20,281 -He talked to me at the car as I was 399 00:21:20,323 --> 00:21:21,908 at the end of the driveway. 400 00:21:21,949 --> 00:21:25,661 I noted in my report what he'd said. 401 00:21:25,703 --> 00:21:28,664 -He said I withheld information. 402 00:21:28,706 --> 00:21:30,917 -I interviewed George and I remember him 403 00:21:30,958 --> 00:21:34,629 just going on and on about what a liar Casey was. 404 00:21:34,670 --> 00:21:37,507 Don't believe anything she tells you. 405 00:21:37,548 --> 00:21:38,758 It took me a while. I said, "George, 406 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,593 do you understand my role here? 407 00:21:40,635 --> 00:21:42,053 I'm trying to help your daughter. 408 00:21:42,095 --> 00:21:43,388 She's looking at death." 409 00:21:43,429 --> 00:21:46,474 "Well, you can't believe anything she says." 410 00:22:05,868 --> 00:22:08,830 He's playing on his ex-cop persona. 411 00:22:08,871 --> 00:22:12,583 "Guys, we are all in this together. 412 00:22:12,625 --> 00:22:14,001 We're in this together." Meaning "we," 413 00:22:14,043 --> 00:22:16,587 "I'm an ex-cop. We're all in this together." 414 00:22:24,637 --> 00:22:25,847 "It's a puzzle. 415 00:22:25,888 --> 00:22:27,640 There are just some pieces missing. 416 00:22:27,682 --> 00:22:29,392 We got to get these pieces." 417 00:22:29,434 --> 00:22:32,395 George is kind of leading this interview, 418 00:22:32,437 --> 00:22:34,021 and it's like, "You're the fucking 419 00:22:34,063 --> 00:22:36,065 missing piece, George. 420 00:22:36,107 --> 00:22:37,817 ** 421 00:22:47,744 --> 00:22:52,582 ** 422 00:22:52,623 --> 00:22:56,544 -I was 22. I was a scared kid. 423 00:22:56,586 --> 00:22:58,629 I'm not scared anymore. Now I'm angry. 424 00:22:58,671 --> 00:23:03,259 I've reverted from that scared place to now, 425 00:23:03,301 --> 00:23:08,473 over the years, my anger just builds. 426 00:23:08,514 --> 00:23:11,476 The same man who would immediately go and report 427 00:23:11,517 --> 00:23:14,228 to law enforcement after he met with me. 428 00:23:14,270 --> 00:23:15,605 But yet on national television, 429 00:23:15,646 --> 00:23:17,398 acting like he was supporting me. 430 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,276 -Do 100% believe your daughter? 431 00:23:20,318 --> 00:23:22,236 -Yes, I do. -George, what about you? 432 00:23:22,278 --> 00:23:26,074 100%? -100%. 433 00:23:26,115 --> 00:23:30,036 -Manipulation after manipulation after manipulation. 434 00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:37,001 But somehow he got cleared by law enforcement from day one. 435 00:23:38,586 --> 00:23:40,588 -Was there ever any other suspect? 436 00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:43,424 Not just looking at Casey, right? 437 00:23:43,466 --> 00:23:46,803 -I mean, the first thing you have to do 438 00:23:46,844 --> 00:23:48,554 when you're investigating a missing child 439 00:23:48,596 --> 00:23:50,640 is go to the people that have custody care, 440 00:23:50,681 --> 00:23:52,100 custody and control over the child. 441 00:23:52,141 --> 00:23:55,228 As far as any other suspects, the family. 442 00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:58,231 You're always looking at the family. 443 00:23:58,272 --> 00:24:00,400 Cindy would always talk to you. 444 00:24:00,441 --> 00:24:02,652 Lee was much more reserved, as I recall. 445 00:24:02,693 --> 00:24:06,572 But George always tried to help. 446 00:24:06,614 --> 00:24:08,282 I mean, they all gave us timelines. 447 00:24:08,324 --> 00:24:12,495 Casey obviously was the last person with the victim. 448 00:24:15,832 --> 00:24:19,001 Well, that's what George had reported to us. 449 00:24:26,551 --> 00:24:28,302 -Did it trouble you that it was only George? 450 00:24:28,344 --> 00:24:33,891 You had no other witness for when Casey left with Caylee? 451 00:24:33,933 --> 00:24:36,269 -Would that, in my mind, make him -- 452 00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:37,603 immediately make him a suspect 453 00:24:37,645 --> 00:24:39,147 because he's one of the last people 454 00:24:39,188 --> 00:24:42,066 that that sees the two together? 455 00:24:42,108 --> 00:24:45,778 You'd be remiss not to realize that as a possibility, 456 00:24:45,820 --> 00:24:47,822 but there was just nothing that led us down that road 457 00:24:47,864 --> 00:24:51,492 that George was responsible in any way 458 00:24:51,534 --> 00:24:53,703 for the death of the child. 459 00:24:55,913 --> 00:24:57,832 -There was an honesty in George. 460 00:24:57,874 --> 00:24:59,542 The same questions we were asking 461 00:24:59,584 --> 00:25:01,127 are questions that he was asking, 462 00:25:01,169 --> 00:25:03,838 and now we're asking him, and he's frustrated in the fact 463 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,466 that he can't give us the answers. 464 00:25:15,516 --> 00:25:16,976 It's obvious that he wants to be 465 00:25:17,018 --> 00:25:19,896 the doting father or grandfather. 466 00:25:23,941 --> 00:25:26,277 Just the things he would say. It wasn't thought out 467 00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:28,613 before he would say it. 468 00:25:39,624 --> 00:25:42,377 He was certainly much more honest and open 469 00:25:42,418 --> 00:25:45,588 in the interview about Casey 470 00:25:45,630 --> 00:25:48,007 in terms of describing his own daughter. 471 00:25:53,805 --> 00:25:55,431 I don't want to say you take advantage of those things, 472 00:25:55,473 --> 00:25:57,600 but you use them to your advantage 473 00:25:57,642 --> 00:26:00,728 in trying to get information. -Yeah. 474 00:26:00,770 --> 00:26:03,606 -Everything that we found about George was that 475 00:26:03,648 --> 00:26:06,609 he was a loving grandfather, and I think he was a man 476 00:26:06,651 --> 00:26:10,196 that was dealing with a lot of things. 477 00:26:10,238 --> 00:26:15,368 ** 478 00:26:15,410 --> 00:26:17,787 -I talked to John Allen. 479 00:26:17,829 --> 00:26:19,288 You know, when I asked him about George, 480 00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:21,082 why wasn't George a suspect, 481 00:26:21,124 --> 00:26:23,209 it's the same answer as Eric Edwards, 482 00:26:23,251 --> 00:26:24,961 same answer as Scott Bolin. 483 00:26:25,002 --> 00:26:26,838 "He was a good guy. Such a good guy. 484 00:26:26,879 --> 00:26:31,175 He's a good granddad. He loved his grandchild." 485 00:26:31,217 --> 00:26:35,179 -Yeah. What proof did you have of that? 486 00:26:35,221 --> 00:26:36,806 When there's a murder, 487 00:26:36,848 --> 00:26:39,892 everybody's a suspect till you eliminate people. 488 00:26:39,934 --> 00:26:44,731 You don't eliminate a guy 'cause he's a good guy, okay? 489 00:26:46,190 --> 00:26:49,527 They believed everything out of his mouth, that she's a liar. 490 00:26:49,569 --> 00:26:53,114 They found out she's a liar, so I think they viewed George 491 00:26:53,156 --> 00:26:54,949 as rather than just be a witness, 492 00:26:54,991 --> 00:26:57,285 he's, like, in on that with them, you know? 493 00:26:57,326 --> 00:27:00,037 Be the mentality is, 494 00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:01,956 "We got our girl. We're not looking 495 00:27:01,998 --> 00:27:06,919 in any other place because it doesn't fit our story." 496 00:27:16,387 --> 00:27:17,805 -She became a pariah, 497 00:27:17,847 --> 00:27:20,141 one of the nation's most despised women. 498 00:27:20,183 --> 00:27:25,813 -I cannot believe that Casey Anthony still has friends. 499 00:27:25,855 --> 00:27:29,484 -I've avoided so much of what is in the media, 500 00:27:29,525 --> 00:27:30,985 but Pat's had a Google alert on me 501 00:27:31,027 --> 00:27:34,781 since just after I moved in. And I forget, 502 00:27:34,822 --> 00:27:40,495 it was some blog years ago, maybe 2013, 2014, 503 00:27:40,536 --> 00:27:43,706 and this woman, of her own volition, 504 00:27:43,748 --> 00:27:45,625 went back and started looking at stuff. 505 00:27:45,666 --> 00:27:50,463 And that was one of those things that that blog -- 506 00:27:50,505 --> 00:27:53,466 her... 507 00:27:53,508 --> 00:27:58,846 her reasonably unbiased view of the case 508 00:27:58,888 --> 00:28:01,724 helped me piece some of it together. 509 00:28:04,894 --> 00:28:09,065 -My name is Kristen Patton. I'm a citizen journalist. 510 00:28:09,107 --> 00:28:12,860 I love studying court cases. I love acquittals especially. 511 00:28:12,902 --> 00:28:14,987 You have this idea that it's one way, 512 00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:16,739 and then you find out that the jury 513 00:28:16,781 --> 00:28:19,409 saw it completely different, and the Casey Anthony case 514 00:28:19,450 --> 00:28:22,662 was just so unbelievable. 515 00:28:22,703 --> 00:28:24,414 I just kind of fell down that rabbit hole 516 00:28:24,455 --> 00:28:25,998 of I have to solve this case. 517 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,460 I have to figure out what really happened to Caylee Anthony. 518 00:28:30,878 --> 00:28:34,006 As I was researching this case, I was trying to get just 519 00:28:34,048 --> 00:28:36,801 some idea of how George felt about things. 520 00:28:36,843 --> 00:28:39,053 And the thing that I noticed first is that every time 521 00:28:39,095 --> 00:28:41,597 that I would get one opinion about -- 522 00:28:41,639 --> 00:28:43,766 that George had said, I would find some other 523 00:28:43,808 --> 00:28:45,768 statement that contradicted that. 524 00:28:45,810 --> 00:28:47,812 He's telling the media that the car smells like a pizza. 525 00:28:47,854 --> 00:28:49,272 But then he's going to the police and telling them 526 00:28:49,313 --> 00:28:50,940 that Casey's guilty and he's telling them 527 00:28:50,982 --> 00:28:54,110 that there's human decomposition in the trunk. 528 00:28:54,152 --> 00:28:57,613 And this is something that nobody ever noticed. 529 00:28:57,655 --> 00:29:00,783 Why didn't the media notice the differences? 530 00:29:03,244 --> 00:29:06,080 Even during the trial, George claimed that he wanted 531 00:29:06,122 --> 00:29:08,040 to help his daughter. 532 00:29:08,082 --> 00:29:11,127 But when the prosecution put him on the stand, 533 00:29:11,169 --> 00:29:15,757 George was very clearly trying to build the prosecution's case. 534 00:29:15,798 --> 00:29:17,967 -Prosecutors painted Casey as a monster 535 00:29:18,009 --> 00:29:20,762 who murdered her daughter, lied at every turn, 536 00:29:20,803 --> 00:29:24,182 and in the end, callously tossed away her remains. 537 00:29:24,223 --> 00:29:28,436 George Anthony was the first witness on the stand. 538 00:29:28,478 --> 00:29:31,189 -George testified a handful of times. 539 00:29:33,191 --> 00:29:37,236 -There is George Anthony. He is back on the witness stand. 540 00:29:37,278 --> 00:29:39,739 -The prosecution wanted to say that there was a body 541 00:29:39,781 --> 00:29:41,991 in the trunk of her car, and George was the one 542 00:29:42,033 --> 00:29:44,535 who was establishing that she didn't want anyone near her car. 543 00:29:44,577 --> 00:29:45,995 -I said, "Casey," I said, "I need to 544 00:29:46,037 --> 00:29:47,789 get something out of your car." 545 00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:50,833 Casey just brushes past me very quickly, says, 546 00:29:50,875 --> 00:29:52,585 "Dad, I'll get it. 547 00:29:52,627 --> 00:29:54,212 I'll get it out of the car." 548 00:29:54,253 --> 00:29:56,005 -He was the one who told the jurors 549 00:29:56,047 --> 00:29:59,509 that Casey had human decomposition in her car. 550 00:29:59,550 --> 00:30:01,636 -George and Cindy, although witnesses in the case, 551 00:30:01,677 --> 00:30:07,809 could remain in the courtroom as survivors of the victim. 552 00:30:07,850 --> 00:30:09,685 So George is in the back of the room, 553 00:30:09,727 --> 00:30:12,105 he listened to the testimony as it came in, 554 00:30:12,146 --> 00:30:15,525 then he got back up, went back to the stand, 555 00:30:15,566 --> 00:30:18,820 filled in blanks for the state. 556 00:30:18,861 --> 00:30:21,572 -It struck me as odd. He wasn't just a witness. 557 00:30:21,614 --> 00:30:23,991 He was the prosecution's key witness. 558 00:30:24,033 --> 00:30:27,245 -Thank you, Mr. Anthony. You may resume your seat. 559 00:30:27,286 --> 00:30:33,543 ** 560 00:30:33,584 --> 00:30:35,002 -Did it surprise you that George 561 00:30:35,044 --> 00:30:39,924 took the stand against Casey so many times? 562 00:30:39,966 --> 00:30:43,469 -No, It doesn't surprise me that George took the stand 563 00:30:43,511 --> 00:30:45,555 as many times as he did. 564 00:30:45,596 --> 00:30:47,390 -You may proceed. 565 00:30:47,432 --> 00:30:52,937 -Would you ever testify against your child in any situation? 566 00:30:52,979 --> 00:30:55,898 -Yes, I would testify against my own child 567 00:30:55,940 --> 00:30:58,568 if I thought my child did something wrong. 568 00:30:58,609 --> 00:31:02,113 And the only reason why I believe that he did testify 569 00:31:02,155 --> 00:31:05,324 was because of the allegations that were made against him. 570 00:31:06,451 --> 00:31:12,498 -Have you ever sexually molested your daughter, 571 00:31:12,540 --> 00:31:15,043 Casey Anthony? 572 00:31:15,084 --> 00:31:16,919 -No, sir. 573 00:31:20,131 --> 00:31:24,927 -It was hard for me to believe the abuse allegation 574 00:31:24,969 --> 00:31:30,016 because of every other lie that she told us. 575 00:31:30,058 --> 00:31:33,102 -If there is no abuse, there's no explanation. 576 00:31:33,144 --> 00:31:35,271 But when we talk to the psychologists 577 00:31:35,313 --> 00:31:37,523 who deal with people who've been sexually abused 578 00:31:37,565 --> 00:31:39,859 from a small age by a parent, 579 00:31:39,901 --> 00:31:44,030 they describe a kind of a mind control 580 00:31:44,072 --> 00:31:47,075 that the parent has over that child. 581 00:31:47,116 --> 00:31:50,078 And they also describe a child that results 582 00:31:50,119 --> 00:31:53,998 who has the ability to go into these compartmentalize worlds, 583 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,461 make them lock up the knowledge of one world, one reality, 584 00:31:58,503 --> 00:31:59,921 and move into another. 585 00:31:59,962 --> 00:32:02,131 And they often do that. 586 00:32:02,173 --> 00:32:03,674 They compartmentalize to the point 587 00:32:03,716 --> 00:32:05,635 where they seem like a compulsive liar. 588 00:32:05,676 --> 00:32:07,470 -Compulsive liar. 589 00:32:07,512 --> 00:32:09,639 ** 590 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,432 [ Sighs ] 591 00:32:11,474 --> 00:32:17,730 ** 592 00:32:17,772 --> 00:32:20,817 I have to admit, 593 00:32:20,858 --> 00:32:22,985 that makes sense. 594 00:32:24,654 --> 00:32:26,697 That makes a lot of sense. 595 00:32:31,369 --> 00:32:32,537 -During the case, 596 00:32:32,578 --> 00:32:34,705 Lee, the brother, comes in one day, 597 00:32:34,747 --> 00:32:35,998 says, "Hey, I got some information, 598 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,209 but I don't know if this is helpful." 599 00:32:38,251 --> 00:32:40,128 -Right before the end of the trial, 600 00:32:40,169 --> 00:32:42,964 Jose had talked to Lee and told him, 601 00:32:43,005 --> 00:32:46,467 "Lee, she could go to prison for the rest of her life." 602 00:32:46,509 --> 00:32:47,969 -Lee Anthony. 603 00:32:48,010 --> 00:32:50,555 -And then Lee called him and said, 604 00:32:50,596 --> 00:32:54,976 "I need to tell you about how our pets were buried." 605 00:32:55,017 --> 00:32:59,564 -Lee says, "When our family pets would die, 606 00:32:59,605 --> 00:33:03,192 Dad, George, would wrap the puppy in a blanket, 607 00:33:03,234 --> 00:33:08,030 put it in a trash bag, and duct tape the trash bag, 608 00:33:08,072 --> 00:33:10,158 and we would bury the thing." 609 00:33:10,199 --> 00:33:12,535 Now we are going nuts on the defense going, 610 00:33:12,577 --> 00:33:14,746 "Of course George does that, and of course, 611 00:33:14,787 --> 00:33:18,416 this is how Caylee's found, in a trash bag with duct tape 612 00:33:18,458 --> 00:33:21,044 and wrapped in a blanket," the little Winnie the Pooh 613 00:33:21,085 --> 00:33:22,837 or whatever that came from the house. 614 00:33:22,879 --> 00:33:24,213 So we're, like, going, 615 00:33:24,255 --> 00:33:27,133 "George has something to do with something." 616 00:33:29,260 --> 00:33:32,889 Another part of George's interesting behavior, 617 00:33:32,930 --> 00:33:38,102 he conducts an affair with a woman during this whole fiasco. 618 00:33:38,144 --> 00:33:40,980 He has an affair with this woman, Krystal Holloway. 619 00:33:41,022 --> 00:33:43,149 -A woman who said she had an affair 620 00:33:43,191 --> 00:33:44,734 with Casey Anthony's father 621 00:33:44,776 --> 00:33:46,903 took the stand for the defense. 622 00:33:46,944 --> 00:33:48,404 -Do you know George Anthony? 623 00:33:48,446 --> 00:33:49,572 -Yes. 624 00:33:49,614 --> 00:33:51,240 -How do you know him? 625 00:33:51,282 --> 00:33:55,244 -I met him at a tent when his granddaughter was missing. 626 00:33:55,286 --> 00:33:57,914 -Did you develop a relationship with Mr. Anthony? 627 00:33:57,955 --> 00:33:59,791 -Yes, sir, I did. 628 00:33:59,832 --> 00:34:01,959 -She said to me, "I never asked George 629 00:34:02,001 --> 00:34:03,920 about what he's going through. 630 00:34:03,961 --> 00:34:06,964 I just felt bad for him." She felt bad for George, 631 00:34:07,006 --> 00:34:09,759 and he just started to unburden himself. 632 00:34:09,801 --> 00:34:13,179 -And I was sitting on the floor, 633 00:34:13,221 --> 00:34:16,140 and he had told me -- he had said 634 00:34:16,182 --> 00:34:19,352 it was an accident that snowballed out of control. 635 00:34:19,394 --> 00:34:22,063 -And I think the jurors probably believed that. 636 00:34:22,105 --> 00:34:24,399 I think they found her to be a credible witness. 637 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,901 I think her testimony definitely brought up questions 638 00:34:26,943 --> 00:34:30,154 about George and the way that he was acting. 639 00:34:30,196 --> 00:34:34,033 -Were you present in your home 640 00:34:34,075 --> 00:34:37,620 when Caylee Anthony died? 641 00:34:37,662 --> 00:34:41,290 -No, and when I heard that today, it's really bad, 642 00:34:41,332 --> 00:34:43,042 because if I would have known something would've happened 643 00:34:43,084 --> 00:34:46,003 to Caylee, we wouldn't be here today. 644 00:34:46,045 --> 00:34:47,463 -Based on the jury's statements, 645 00:34:47,505 --> 00:34:50,216 they definitely questioned George's involvement. 646 00:35:07,108 --> 00:35:09,193 The day of Caylee's disappearance, 647 00:35:09,235 --> 00:35:11,195 they felt like his story for that day 648 00:35:11,237 --> 00:35:12,488 was a little bit too perfect. 649 00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:14,073 You know, he was able to remember the exact 650 00:35:14,115 --> 00:35:15,491 color socks everyone was wearing. 651 00:35:15,533 --> 00:35:18,327 -I remember Caylee coming out from Casey's room 652 00:35:18,369 --> 00:35:20,163 dressed in a nice little pink top, 653 00:35:20,204 --> 00:35:21,497 she had her blue jeans, 654 00:35:21,539 --> 00:35:24,500 little shorts on, her white sandals, 655 00:35:24,542 --> 00:35:28,504 pink socks, white sunglasses, her hair pulled back. 656 00:35:28,546 --> 00:35:30,715 -You go back and you look at his other testimony. 657 00:35:30,757 --> 00:35:33,676 He couldn't remember things that he should have a memory of. 658 00:35:33,718 --> 00:35:36,971 -What did Cindy wear that day? 659 00:35:37,013 --> 00:35:38,514 -I have no idea. 660 00:35:38,556 --> 00:35:40,308 I couldn't tell you. 661 00:35:40,349 --> 00:35:41,517 -From the jurors' perspective, 662 00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:43,186 there are two suspects in this case. 663 00:35:43,227 --> 00:35:44,687 They were both not telling the truth 664 00:35:44,729 --> 00:35:46,564 about what happened that day. 665 00:35:46,606 --> 00:35:49,233 I didn't really understand why George was trying so hard 666 00:35:49,275 --> 00:35:51,152 to put his daughter on death row. 667 00:35:51,194 --> 00:35:53,321 -What was your impression of George? 668 00:35:53,362 --> 00:35:58,409 -You know, he's a former cop, and you could see that in him. 669 00:35:58,451 --> 00:36:02,955 You know, he was sort of not as emotional 670 00:36:02,997 --> 00:36:05,374 as you would expect someone to be in a situation like that, 671 00:36:05,416 --> 00:36:08,086 at least in my dealings with him, 672 00:36:08,127 --> 00:36:09,545 perhaps because he'd been around. 673 00:36:09,587 --> 00:36:11,172 You know, that was interesting to me. 674 00:36:11,214 --> 00:36:14,759 And then, of course, he had his secrets, too. 675 00:36:14,801 --> 00:36:16,469 -But I know it was 10 minutes to 1:00 because I was watching 676 00:36:16,511 --> 00:36:19,097 this Food Channel thing that I watch. 677 00:36:19,138 --> 00:36:22,141 -And it's your testimony that both. 678 00:36:22,183 --> 00:36:27,105 Casey and Caylee left the house at 12:50? 679 00:36:27,146 --> 00:36:30,274 -12:50 or shortly thereafter. Yes, sir. 680 00:36:32,735 --> 00:36:36,447 -Through the Public Records Act, we got the cellphone records. 681 00:36:36,489 --> 00:36:41,035 We were able to pinpoint where Casey's cellphone was 682 00:36:41,077 --> 00:36:43,162 pretty much all the time. 683 00:36:43,204 --> 00:36:46,499 On that day when George said she left with Caylee 684 00:36:46,541 --> 00:36:49,293 to go to work and visit the nanny, 685 00:36:49,335 --> 00:36:51,295 we could see that was not true. 686 00:36:51,337 --> 00:36:53,256 Our records show she was at or near that house 687 00:36:53,297 --> 00:36:56,592 that entire day until 4:11 in the afternoon 688 00:36:56,634 --> 00:36:59,679 when she left and headed toward Tony's apartment. 689 00:36:59,721 --> 00:37:02,181 We have the cell locations of where she was. 690 00:37:02,223 --> 00:37:05,601 But to fill in the gaps, we have the computer records. 691 00:37:05,643 --> 00:37:08,187 At 2:51 that afternoon, 692 00:37:08,229 --> 00:37:12,316 someone searches for the term "foolproof suffocation." 693 00:37:12,358 --> 00:37:16,362 That computer was started up at 2:49 that afternoon. 694 00:37:16,404 --> 00:37:19,240 We authenticated the stuff as much as possible, 695 00:37:19,282 --> 00:37:22,577 and we are certain that our times are right. 696 00:37:25,288 --> 00:37:27,498 -Do you remember the Internet searches? 697 00:37:27,540 --> 00:37:30,626 "At 2:49, whilst Casey's cellphone 698 00:37:30,668 --> 00:37:32,295 is pinging a tower nearest the home, 699 00:37:32,336 --> 00:37:34,297 the Anthonys' family desktop computer's activated 700 00:37:34,338 --> 00:37:37,050 by someone using Casey's password-protected account. 701 00:37:37,091 --> 00:37:40,470 At 2:51, someone does a search for 'foolproof suffocation,' 702 00:37:40,511 --> 00:37:43,097 clicking on several pro-suicide websites." 703 00:37:43,139 --> 00:37:45,475 -Right. Wasn't me. 704 00:37:45,516 --> 00:37:47,393 I can tell you that. Everyone had each other's 705 00:37:47,435 --> 00:37:51,022 passwords because it was the family computer. 706 00:37:51,064 --> 00:37:53,566 But I didn't make those searches. 707 00:37:53,608 --> 00:37:56,235 -Do you think it's possible your dad did that 708 00:37:56,277 --> 00:37:59,447 2:51 p.m. search if he was at work at 3:00? 709 00:37:59,489 --> 00:38:03,034 -Where he worked and where our house was located 710 00:38:03,076 --> 00:38:04,702 was less than 10 minutes. 711 00:38:04,744 --> 00:38:06,537 There was enough time for him to have been home, 712 00:38:06,579 --> 00:38:09,040 still made those searches, and then left for work. 713 00:38:09,082 --> 00:38:11,250 -At 3:02, we have George using his cell 714 00:38:11,292 --> 00:38:13,753 to call the house landline. -Okay. 715 00:38:13,795 --> 00:38:15,755 But where was his phone pinging at that point? 716 00:38:15,797 --> 00:38:19,717 Was it pinging at work or was it pinging closer to the house? 717 00:38:19,759 --> 00:38:21,511 -We don't know 'cause we don't have George's cellphone records. 718 00:38:21,552 --> 00:38:23,262 -That's also part of the problem. 719 00:38:23,304 --> 00:38:25,598 We don't have George's cellphone records. 720 00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:29,477 -And I was like, "Why did we not get George's phone records?" 721 00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:31,521 And I don't know if they subpoenaed them, 722 00:38:31,562 --> 00:38:33,398 but I sure would have loved to have had them. 723 00:38:33,439 --> 00:38:35,441 When did he leave the house, you know? 724 00:38:35,483 --> 00:38:39,529 Did he go around the corner where the body was dumped? 725 00:38:39,570 --> 00:38:42,407 What time? When did he get to work? 726 00:38:42,448 --> 00:38:44,742 I mean, I don't know... 727 00:38:44,784 --> 00:38:47,370 I don't know why they either didn't have them 728 00:38:47,412 --> 00:38:48,371 or didn't turn them over to us, 729 00:38:48,413 --> 00:38:50,873 because I don't know. 730 00:38:50,915 --> 00:38:52,500 I just don't know. 731 00:38:55,461 --> 00:38:57,463 -Did you subpoena George's phone? 732 00:38:57,505 --> 00:39:00,091 -I don't remember. I mean, I know at the time, 733 00:39:00,133 --> 00:39:02,176 I mean, this has been years. 734 00:39:02,218 --> 00:39:04,595 I believe we subpoenaed a number of phones, 735 00:39:04,637 --> 00:39:09,183 but I don't recall whose and what we subpoenaed. 736 00:39:09,225 --> 00:39:11,227 I just don't remember. 737 00:39:11,269 --> 00:39:13,604 -I was able to verify. Yes, we did have 738 00:39:13,646 --> 00:39:16,399 George Anthony's cellphone records. 739 00:39:16,441 --> 00:39:18,443 -Do those include cell tower locations? 740 00:39:18,484 --> 00:39:20,653 -No, they do not have cell tower information. 741 00:39:20,695 --> 00:39:23,406 -Would that information have been useful to you 742 00:39:23,448 --> 00:39:27,368 being able to determine Mr. George Anthony's movement? 743 00:39:27,410 --> 00:39:29,787 -Yes, if I had a reason to even believe 744 00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:31,998 that that would play a part in this case, 745 00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:33,791 which at the time I did not. 746 00:39:33,833 --> 00:39:39,380 ** 747 00:39:39,422 --> 00:39:43,384 -Yeah, I mean, look, I say it again, 748 00:39:43,426 --> 00:39:46,220 I don't think George had anything to do with it. 749 00:39:46,262 --> 00:39:48,473 -Did George ever lie to you? 750 00:39:50,224 --> 00:39:53,478 -Well, yeah, at different points in time. 751 00:39:53,519 --> 00:39:56,689 I mean, everybody -- just about everybody in the family 752 00:39:56,731 --> 00:39:59,567 told us one thing or another that wasn't true. 753 00:39:59,609 --> 00:40:04,614 So yeah, we were lied to throughout the investigation. 754 00:40:04,655 --> 00:40:07,492 Being a liar doesn't make somebody a murderer. 755 00:40:07,533 --> 00:40:10,203 ** 756 00:40:21,255 --> 00:40:23,383 -At the time, my nightmares start to increase 757 00:40:23,424 --> 00:40:26,386 based off of what happened in court. 758 00:40:26,427 --> 00:40:29,430 -Within somewhere probably close to about a three-foot area 759 00:40:29,472 --> 00:40:32,683 of the passenger side of the car, 760 00:40:32,725 --> 00:40:37,271 I did smell a pretty -- pretty strong odor. 761 00:40:37,313 --> 00:40:40,983 -Was that the odor of a human corpse? 762 00:40:41,025 --> 00:40:42,318 -Yes. 763 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,861 -During that 31 days, 764 00:40:43,903 --> 00:40:48,366 I ran out of gas in front of that cash checking place. 765 00:40:48,408 --> 00:40:50,743 And my dad was supposed to go pick up the car. 766 00:40:50,785 --> 00:40:52,662 He said, "Don't worry about it. Just leave it there. 767 00:40:52,703 --> 00:40:54,497 Park it somewhere where I can find it." 768 00:40:54,539 --> 00:40:58,668 So I had two guys off the road help me push it in. 769 00:40:58,710 --> 00:41:02,171 And there was no smell when I even left my car that day. 770 00:41:02,213 --> 00:41:05,216 I don't know what a dead body smells like. 771 00:41:05,258 --> 00:41:08,678 But I know what rotten garbage smells like. 772 00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:10,388 I left garbage in the car. 773 00:41:10,430 --> 00:41:13,015 There were three bags and a pizza box. 774 00:41:13,057 --> 00:41:15,351 I only threw away two of the bags. 775 00:41:15,393 --> 00:41:17,270 I forgot that I had even taken the garbage 776 00:41:17,311 --> 00:41:19,188 because I got so distracted by a phone call 777 00:41:19,230 --> 00:41:21,023 when I was throwing the garbage out. 778 00:41:21,065 --> 00:41:24,819 So I just closed the trunk instinctually and left. 779 00:41:24,861 --> 00:41:28,281 After the 31 days, I know when I got home 780 00:41:28,322 --> 00:41:30,700 and that car was there, and there was a smell, 781 00:41:30,742 --> 00:41:32,618 and it's something I have, to this day, have still never 782 00:41:32,660 --> 00:41:34,537 smelled and don't ever want to smell again. 783 00:41:34,579 --> 00:41:38,708 I've never smelled that in my life even prior to. 784 00:41:38,750 --> 00:41:42,420 -You're smelling her car that smells like a dead body, 785 00:41:42,462 --> 00:41:44,047 and you don't call the police? 786 00:41:44,088 --> 00:41:45,548 -No, sir, I did not. 787 00:41:45,590 --> 00:41:50,762 -And you don't call your daughter to see if she's okay? 788 00:41:50,803 --> 00:41:55,058 -I didn't call my daughter at that time. 789 00:41:55,099 --> 00:41:56,350 -And you don't call your daughter 790 00:41:56,392 --> 00:41:58,811 to see if Caylee's okay? 791 00:41:58,853 --> 00:42:02,482 -I didn't call my daughter to inquire about her or Caylee 792 00:42:02,523 --> 00:42:04,192 at that time. I did not. 793 00:42:04,233 --> 00:42:07,403 And as a detective, you know 794 00:42:07,445 --> 00:42:09,697 that if you smell a dead body in a car 795 00:42:09,739 --> 00:42:14,118 that that's a potential crime scene? 796 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,120 -At the time, sir, I wasn't a detective. 797 00:42:16,162 --> 00:42:18,664 I am just a father and a grandfather. 798 00:42:21,667 --> 00:42:25,296 -Jose's bringing that up because my father would know 799 00:42:25,338 --> 00:42:28,966 protocol and procedure, 800 00:42:29,008 --> 00:42:30,885 how to work a scene. 801 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,472 Again, he didn't inquire 802 00:42:34,514 --> 00:42:38,309 to where I was that day because he knew. 803 00:42:38,351 --> 00:42:39,894 He didn't inquire to where Caylee was 804 00:42:39,936 --> 00:42:42,897 because he was the only one who knew where she was. 805 00:42:46,818 --> 00:42:50,238 I'm sitting there staring daggers at this man... 806 00:42:51,656 --> 00:42:53,741 ...because I'm one of the only people who knows the truth 807 00:42:53,783 --> 00:42:55,743 about who and what he is. 808 00:42:57,662 --> 00:43:02,500 It took so long for me to get to that point. 809 00:43:02,542 --> 00:43:04,627 So long. 810 00:43:04,669 --> 00:43:06,254 And I get that's not something 811 00:43:06,295 --> 00:43:07,797 that people really get or understand, 812 00:43:07,839 --> 00:43:11,634 but it's like you have Stockholm syndrome. 813 00:43:11,676 --> 00:43:14,679 He was the state of Florida's first witness against me, 814 00:43:14,721 --> 00:43:19,350 and he was a knowing and willing participant. 815 00:43:19,392 --> 00:43:24,897 He knew that his actions, his behavior, his words 816 00:43:24,939 --> 00:43:26,858 could potentially kill me. 817 00:43:28,609 --> 00:43:33,156 -And I can't imagine being used as a tool of the state 818 00:43:33,197 --> 00:43:35,283 to try to kill one of my children. 819 00:43:35,324 --> 00:43:38,661 He seemed fairly enthusiastic in that role. 820 00:43:38,703 --> 00:43:44,000 When George Anthony became the star witness for the state, 821 00:43:44,041 --> 00:43:48,671 when the goal of the state was to kill his daughter, 822 00:43:48,713 --> 00:43:50,214 he lost me. 823 00:43:50,256 --> 00:43:52,341 He lost me right then. 824 00:43:52,383 --> 00:43:54,677 -George was the star witness. 825 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,346 And he also was the star witness in front of the grand jury 826 00:43:57,388 --> 00:44:00,349 to make the indictment what it was. 827 00:44:00,391 --> 00:44:02,185 So the real question is, if you were telling people 828 00:44:02,226 --> 00:44:03,853 behind the scenes it was an accident, 829 00:44:03,895 --> 00:44:06,522 would you testify as a star witness in a trial 830 00:44:06,564 --> 00:44:10,234 that would get your child death for that accident? 831 00:44:12,445 --> 00:44:15,865 -I have to admit, what you just told me, 832 00:44:15,907 --> 00:44:20,328 and hearing that he was the grand jury's star witness 833 00:44:20,369 --> 00:44:23,581 to try to get the death penalty for his own kid, 834 00:44:23,623 --> 00:44:26,084 I have never heard that before. 835 00:44:26,125 --> 00:44:28,419 And that's... 836 00:44:28,461 --> 00:44:31,422 [ Sighs ] ...that's shocking. 837 00:44:31,464 --> 00:44:34,425 Why, if you did think it was an accident, 838 00:44:34,467 --> 00:44:38,262 would you want the death penalty? 839 00:44:38,304 --> 00:44:41,057 That doesn't make any sense. 840 00:44:41,099 --> 00:44:42,934 That... 841 00:44:48,314 --> 00:44:50,066 Oh, my God. 842 00:44:50,108 --> 00:44:55,571 ** 843 00:44:55,613 --> 00:44:57,990 -Like, that is, like -- 844 00:44:58,032 --> 00:45:02,703 how would you -- why would you put yourself in the situation? 845 00:45:02,745 --> 00:45:07,083 Or even, like -- even flirt with the idea that it will end up 846 00:45:07,125 --> 00:45:09,752 with your daughter being, like, 847 00:45:09,794 --> 00:45:13,631 you know, going to the death penalty? 848 00:45:13,673 --> 00:45:16,217 -Right, so that's the situation we have with George. 849 00:45:16,259 --> 00:45:20,263 Why did he want his daughter to die for an accident? 850 00:45:20,304 --> 00:45:24,976 ** 851 00:45:25,017 --> 00:45:26,853 -I have no idea. 852 00:45:28,813 --> 00:45:32,358 Covering up his own tracks or something, I guess. 853 00:45:34,318 --> 00:45:35,737 Like, that's the only thing that -- 854 00:45:35,778 --> 00:45:40,616 that's the only logical reason I could think. 855 00:45:40,658 --> 00:45:42,910 This is blowing my mind right now. 856 00:45:44,495 --> 00:45:46,038 Holy shit. 857 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:51,252 ** 858 00:45:51,294 --> 00:45:53,296 Do you mind if I take, like, a five-minute break? 859 00:45:53,337 --> 00:45:54,464 [ Laughs ] 860 00:45:54,505 --> 00:45:56,090 I need to, like, 861 00:45:56,132 --> 00:45:58,134 recollect my thoughts here. 862 00:45:58,176 --> 00:46:01,012 Holy shit. 863 00:46:01,054 --> 00:46:02,680 [ Sighs ] 864 00:46:02,722 --> 00:46:09,854 ** 865 00:46:14,734 --> 00:46:16,903 ** 866 00:46:16,944 --> 00:46:19,822 -We are back with my exclusive interview with George Anthony, 867 00:46:19,864 --> 00:46:24,368 who's recovering from a car crash that nearly took his life. 868 00:46:26,829 --> 00:46:28,539 You look better than I expected. 869 00:46:28,581 --> 00:46:30,041 -Thank you. -How you doing? 870 00:46:30,083 --> 00:46:31,584 -I'm doing good. 871 00:46:31,626 --> 00:46:36,172 -A few years ago, he'd been in a severe car accident. 872 00:46:36,214 --> 00:46:38,174 -Has your daughter called you? 873 00:46:38,216 --> 00:46:39,801 Has Casey reached out? 874 00:46:39,842 --> 00:46:41,677 -She did reach out to ask how I was. 875 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:43,971 -Would you like to see her? -No, I didn't. 876 00:46:44,013 --> 00:46:45,848 I'll be honest. -I mean, honestly, I would. 877 00:46:45,890 --> 00:46:47,642 I would like to just tell her I'm sorry. 878 00:46:47,683 --> 00:46:50,228 You know, that I-I forgive her. 879 00:46:50,269 --> 00:46:54,148 I forgive her, I -- and that's hard for me to say. 880 00:46:54,190 --> 00:46:55,566 But you know what? 881 00:46:55,608 --> 00:46:58,277 I need to be forgiven by her and my son 882 00:46:58,319 --> 00:47:00,196 and other family members or friends 883 00:47:00,238 --> 00:47:01,697 that I care so much about. 884 00:47:01,739 --> 00:47:04,659 Forgive me for what I've done to all of our lives. 885 00:47:04,700 --> 00:47:08,246 -It was an accident. -What would you forgive her for? 886 00:47:08,287 --> 00:47:09,330 -I'm sorry, what? 887 00:47:09,372 --> 00:47:12,041 -For what she has put -- 888 00:47:12,083 --> 00:47:13,710 -Uh, yeah, she asked the question. 889 00:47:13,751 --> 00:47:14,919 I want to know the answer to that. 890 00:47:14,961 --> 00:47:17,130 What does he need to be forgiven for? 891 00:47:19,382 --> 00:47:21,676 I'm sorry. Can you play that back? 892 00:47:21,718 --> 00:47:24,387 -I need to be forgiven by her and my son 893 00:47:24,429 --> 00:47:26,264 and other family members or friends 894 00:47:26,305 --> 00:47:27,765 that I care so much about. 895 00:47:27,807 --> 00:47:30,810 Forgive me for what I've done to all of our lives. 896 00:47:30,852 --> 00:47:33,438 -What do you want her to forgive you for? 897 00:47:35,815 --> 00:47:36,983 -I don't know, I guess that's something 898 00:47:37,024 --> 00:47:39,777 I'll have to wait to hear from her. 899 00:47:42,780 --> 00:47:45,575 -Okay. 900 00:47:45,616 --> 00:47:47,952 What does he need to be forgiven for? 901 00:47:50,288 --> 00:47:51,956 What did he do? 902 00:47:51,998 --> 00:47:55,960 ** 903 00:47:56,002 --> 00:47:58,921 I could still report him for what he did to me. 904 00:47:58,963 --> 00:48:00,715 There's no statute of limitations 905 00:48:00,757 --> 00:48:04,844 in the state of Florida for what he did to me, to us. 906 00:48:04,886 --> 00:48:10,725 ** 907 00:48:10,767 --> 00:48:13,770 I remember my father said something 908 00:48:13,811 --> 00:48:17,648 during the course of my case. 909 00:48:17,690 --> 00:48:22,779 I don't remember if it was in an interview or who he said it to. 910 00:48:22,820 --> 00:48:25,782 I'm pretty sure it was actually public. 911 00:48:25,823 --> 00:48:27,033 But he said he used to love 912 00:48:27,075 --> 00:48:30,995 the sweet smell of Caylee's sweat. 913 00:48:31,037 --> 00:48:34,165 -Casey, he said that at Caylee's funeral. 914 00:48:35,374 --> 00:48:36,417 -[ Chuckles ] 915 00:48:36,459 --> 00:48:38,586 Was it really? 916 00:48:38,628 --> 00:48:41,631 Of course he did. 917 00:48:41,672 --> 00:48:43,800 Of course he did. 918 00:48:45,802 --> 00:48:49,931 What better way to memorialize your granddaughter 919 00:48:49,972 --> 00:48:53,142 than to tell the world that you were abusing her, too? 920 00:48:54,811 --> 00:48:57,522 [ Voice breaking ] I'm gonna need a break. 921 00:49:00,566 --> 00:49:02,652 I need a minute, I'm sorry. 922 00:49:02,693 --> 00:49:05,321 ** 923 00:49:05,363 --> 00:49:07,031 [ Sniffles ] 924 00:49:07,073 --> 00:49:09,450 [ Sobbing ] 925 00:49:09,492 --> 00:49:15,665 ** 926 00:49:21,212 --> 00:49:24,549 ** 927 00:49:28,553 --> 00:49:33,099 ** 928 00:49:33,141 --> 00:49:35,226 [ Sighs ] 929 00:49:47,989 --> 00:49:50,032 ** 930 00:49:57,582 --> 00:49:59,625 Sorry, is the mic good still? 931 00:49:59,667 --> 00:50:01,294 Okay? -Yeah. 932 00:50:01,335 --> 00:50:03,629 -Okay. 933 00:50:03,671 --> 00:50:05,798 Sorry. 934 00:50:10,386 --> 00:50:17,560 ** 935 00:50:17,602 --> 00:50:20,521 [ Sighs ] 936 00:50:20,563 --> 00:50:23,858 -So... 937 00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:26,569 -You're going to ask that question -- 938 00:50:26,611 --> 00:50:28,905 not today. 939 00:50:28,946 --> 00:50:30,782 -What do you think my question was going to be? 940 00:50:30,823 --> 00:50:33,076 -What happened? 941 00:50:33,117 --> 00:50:35,328 It was written all over your face. 942 00:50:35,369 --> 00:50:39,082 And I'm telling you, I'm not ready to answer. 943 00:50:49,884 --> 00:50:52,553 -We talked about showing you the footage 944 00:50:52,595 --> 00:50:55,181 of the memorial that you had never seen. 945 00:50:55,223 --> 00:50:58,601 -Right. -Are you ready to watch that? 946 00:50:58,643 --> 00:51:01,938 -I don't want to do this, but I know I need to. 947 00:51:03,815 --> 00:51:05,525 -God, we're here to remember and honor 948 00:51:05,566 --> 00:51:08,778 and thank you for a beautiful gift 949 00:51:08,820 --> 00:51:11,781 named Caylee Marie Anthony. 950 00:51:11,823 --> 00:51:14,700 And so, Lord, we want to celebrate 951 00:51:14,742 --> 00:51:17,537 a life, though it was short, 952 00:51:17,578 --> 00:51:24,043 while the impact that she will have for generations to come. 953 00:51:24,085 --> 00:51:28,172 Lord, we pray for George and Cindy. 954 00:51:30,633 --> 00:51:34,554 -I wasn't allowed to be at her funeral. 955 00:51:34,595 --> 00:51:37,640 I was sitting in jail under indictment. 956 00:51:37,682 --> 00:51:40,393 -[ Indistinct singing ] 957 00:51:40,435 --> 00:51:48,443 ** 958 00:51:48,484 --> 00:51:50,862 -This wasn't something personal. 959 00:51:50,903 --> 00:51:55,867 I begged my mom to have a private, quiet funeral. 960 00:51:59,620 --> 00:52:03,583 -I stand here today, proud.. 961 00:52:05,668 --> 00:52:09,630 ...to be the grandfather of Caylee Marie Anthony, 962 00:52:09,672 --> 00:52:10,840 who not only meant the world to me, 963 00:52:10,882 --> 00:52:13,968 but meant the world to my family, 964 00:52:14,010 --> 00:52:15,845 and so many of you that never got a chance 965 00:52:15,887 --> 00:52:19,682 to actually hug her, 966 00:52:19,724 --> 00:52:21,809 smell her hair, 967 00:52:21,851 --> 00:52:25,980 smell the sweet sweat when she came in from outside. 968 00:52:26,022 --> 00:52:29,859 -Are you fucking kidding me? -To hear her call me JoJo. 969 00:52:29,901 --> 00:52:33,988 I missed that kiss on the cheek, 970 00:52:34,030 --> 00:52:36,240 that special hug that -- I tell everyone 971 00:52:36,282 --> 00:52:39,744 it's so great to get a hug from someone. 972 00:52:39,786 --> 00:52:43,122 But to get a hug from a small child, 973 00:52:43,164 --> 00:52:46,918 that gives me energy like you couldn't imagine. 974 00:52:46,959 --> 00:52:57,261 ** 975 00:52:57,303 --> 00:53:00,056 -That's not normal. 976 00:53:00,098 --> 00:53:03,851 Nothing about that is fucking normal. 977 00:53:05,603 --> 00:53:10,108 You're outright telling the world that you're a pedophile. 978 00:53:12,693 --> 00:53:15,238 Jesus Christ. 979 00:53:16,614 --> 00:53:19,200 -I'm not going to say how much I'm going to miss things 980 00:53:19,242 --> 00:53:20,952 that I won't be able to do with her, because someday 981 00:53:20,993 --> 00:53:24,831 I'll be able to hold her hand again in God's heaven. 982 00:53:24,872 --> 00:53:26,416 I'll be able to take her in wagon rides. 983 00:53:26,457 --> 00:53:29,752 I'll be able to kiss her. I'll be able to smell her again. 984 00:53:29,794 --> 00:53:32,964 -[ Exhales deeply ] 985 00:53:36,634 --> 00:53:39,011 -What are you thinking? 986 00:53:39,053 --> 00:53:45,893 ** 987 00:53:45,935 --> 00:53:48,938 -A lot more things make sense. 988 00:53:50,773 --> 00:53:53,901 That's not necessarily a good thing. 989 00:53:56,529 --> 00:53:58,322 -What things make sense? 990 00:54:01,951 --> 00:54:04,620 -I know what he did to me. 991 00:54:04,662 --> 00:54:07,206 And that was my fear. 992 00:54:09,834 --> 00:54:13,129 I have one job to keep her safe. 993 00:54:13,171 --> 00:54:15,590 As a parent, that's your most important job, 994 00:54:15,631 --> 00:54:18,551 is to keep your kid safe. 995 00:54:18,593 --> 00:54:21,012 As a kid who was abused... 996 00:54:24,474 --> 00:54:27,435 ...you don't ever want to see that happen to another kid, 997 00:54:27,477 --> 00:54:29,979 especially not your own. 998 00:54:32,106 --> 00:54:35,735 -If you're honest with yourself, Casey, did you do everything 999 00:54:35,777 --> 00:54:38,821 in your power to protect your daughter? 1000 00:54:38,863 --> 00:54:41,324 -I thought I did. 1001 00:54:41,365 --> 00:54:43,868 I tried. 1002 00:54:46,287 --> 00:54:48,456 I didn't leave when I should've. I should have 1003 00:54:48,498 --> 00:54:50,500 the moment I found out I was pregnant. 1004 00:54:50,541 --> 00:54:52,335 I should have just left. 1005 00:54:52,377 --> 00:54:56,964 ** 1006 00:54:57,006 --> 00:54:59,884 After Caylee was born, 1007 00:54:59,926 --> 00:55:03,763 my father was around initially. 1008 00:55:03,805 --> 00:55:05,848 He was never left alone with my dad. 1009 00:55:05,890 --> 00:55:08,101 Not even when she was an infant. 1010 00:55:09,727 --> 00:55:12,021 Because I know what I lived through. 1011 00:55:13,773 --> 00:55:17,568 As a kid who was abused, that was my fear. 1012 00:55:17,610 --> 00:55:19,070 -That she wouldn't be safe? 1013 00:55:19,112 --> 00:55:21,072 -That she wouldn't be safe. 1014 00:55:23,366 --> 00:55:30,415 And then my parents' marriage imploded in November of 2005. 1015 00:55:30,456 --> 00:55:31,999 He got caught cheating. 1016 00:55:32,041 --> 00:55:34,502 This time she kicked him out of the house. 1017 00:55:34,544 --> 00:55:40,258 ** 1018 00:55:40,299 --> 00:55:42,552 Caylee was little. She was just 1019 00:55:42,593 --> 00:55:44,637 a couple of months old. 1020 00:55:44,679 --> 00:55:47,890 It was just us, it was just the three girls in the house. 1021 00:55:47,932 --> 00:55:49,892 Her and I and the baby. 1022 00:55:49,934 --> 00:55:53,187 For the first time 1023 00:55:53,229 --> 00:55:56,941 since I was 8 years old, 11 years, 1024 00:55:56,983 --> 00:56:00,445 I finally felt safe because he wasn't there. 1025 00:56:03,948 --> 00:56:07,160 -What do you remember when you watch this? 1026 00:56:07,201 --> 00:56:11,706 -Just being happy. Being -- feeling safe, content. 1027 00:56:11,748 --> 00:56:14,584 He was gone. 1028 00:56:14,625 --> 00:56:19,922 I wasn't worried in these moments that I was with her. 1029 00:56:19,964 --> 00:56:21,799 I wasn't afraid. 1030 00:56:21,841 --> 00:56:28,556 ** 1031 00:56:28,598 --> 00:56:35,104 ** 1032 00:56:35,146 --> 00:56:37,273 But then she let him back. 1033 00:56:40,151 --> 00:56:42,945 I feel like so much of her facade 1034 00:56:42,987 --> 00:56:46,240 was being strong, being independent, 1035 00:56:46,282 --> 00:56:50,078 being able to take care of everything herself. 1036 00:56:50,119 --> 00:56:53,122 I could see through the cracks in the facade, 1037 00:56:53,164 --> 00:56:57,085 and there was a level of codependency, 1038 00:56:57,126 --> 00:57:00,838 and fear, I'm sure, of being alone. 1039 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,715 I knew from that point forward 1040 00:57:02,757 --> 00:57:05,259 I had to get out as soon as possible. 1041 00:57:05,301 --> 00:57:09,972 I could not live there with those people anymore. 1042 00:57:10,014 --> 00:57:13,101 -Do you remember this? -Of course I do. 1043 00:57:13,142 --> 00:57:15,645 That was my kid. That was my best friend. 1044 00:57:15,686 --> 00:57:17,647 -What do you remember? 1045 00:57:17,688 --> 00:57:19,232 -Not wanting to be home 1046 00:57:19,273 --> 00:57:22,860 because both of my parents were there. 1047 00:57:24,362 --> 00:57:26,072 -Hey, look! 1048 00:57:26,114 --> 00:57:29,617 -He had just moved back in a little bit before this. 1049 00:57:29,659 --> 00:57:36,040 ** 1050 00:57:36,082 --> 00:57:37,542 I was trying to work as much as I could 1051 00:57:37,583 --> 00:57:40,420 and not tell very many people where I was working, 1052 00:57:40,461 --> 00:57:43,339 what I was doing, how I was making money, 1053 00:57:43,381 --> 00:57:45,550 because I wanted an exit plan for Caylee 1054 00:57:45,591 --> 00:57:48,010 and I to get out of that house, to get away from those people, 1055 00:57:48,052 --> 00:57:49,679 and to start over. 1056 00:57:49,721 --> 00:57:57,478 ** 1057 00:57:59,105 --> 00:58:00,356 -Where are we, Casey? 1058 00:58:00,398 --> 00:58:04,193 -We're in the back lot at Universal. 1059 00:58:05,903 --> 00:58:12,368 I worked at Universal Studios between 2004 and 2006 1060 00:58:12,410 --> 00:58:17,373 as a third-party contractor with Eastman Kodak, 1061 00:58:17,415 --> 00:58:20,209 and I left when our contract expired 1062 00:58:20,251 --> 00:58:23,087 and another company was coming in. 1063 00:58:24,380 --> 00:58:26,883 At that point, I transitioned into 1064 00:58:26,924 --> 00:58:29,385 working in the nightlife, bartending, 1065 00:58:29,427 --> 00:58:32,430 and I was making a lot of side cash. 1066 00:58:34,807 --> 00:58:37,727 I had been telling my mom that I was still working at Universal 1067 00:58:37,769 --> 00:58:39,395 since I left Universal 1068 00:58:39,437 --> 00:58:41,230 because I didn't want her asking questions 1069 00:58:41,272 --> 00:58:43,941 about where I was getting extra money from 1070 00:58:43,983 --> 00:58:47,403 and why I had it and why it was all in cash. 1071 00:58:47,445 --> 00:58:49,489 I didn't want her to know my plan to leave 1072 00:58:49,530 --> 00:58:52,617 until I was ready to tell her that I was moving away. 1073 00:58:52,658 --> 00:58:55,036 If I told her anything, she would have done everything 1074 00:58:55,078 --> 00:58:57,413 in her power to stop me, guilted me into staying, 1075 00:58:57,455 --> 00:58:59,415 because I know there was part of her 1076 00:58:59,457 --> 00:59:03,378 that was living vicariously, even through my existence. 1077 00:59:03,419 --> 00:59:05,630 Because she wasn't happy with her own. 1078 00:59:05,671 --> 00:59:09,008 You have no idea the guilt trip she would lay on me the moment 1079 00:59:09,050 --> 00:59:11,094 I would make a decision for myself, 1080 00:59:11,135 --> 00:59:14,263 let alone a decision for my daughter. 1081 00:59:14,305 --> 00:59:18,893 No idea how hard that was. 1082 00:59:18,935 --> 00:59:25,983 ** 1083 00:59:26,025 --> 00:59:27,610 During that time, 1084 00:59:27,652 --> 00:59:30,113 it's not just that I was lying to my mom. 1085 00:59:30,154 --> 00:59:31,447 I also wasn't being honest 1086 00:59:31,489 --> 00:59:33,282 with a lot of the people who were in my life 1087 00:59:33,324 --> 00:59:36,369 because I didn't want things getting back to my mom. 1088 00:59:36,411 --> 00:59:38,496 So I told them that I was still working events 1089 00:59:38,538 --> 00:59:42,917 at universal, or that I was even, at that point, 1090 00:59:42,959 --> 00:59:45,002 working other separate events. 1091 00:59:47,171 --> 00:59:49,549 This is Sawgrass Apartments. 1092 00:59:52,385 --> 00:59:56,013 This was the place that 1093 00:59:56,055 --> 00:59:58,433 Zenaida Gonzalez, or Zanny the Nanny, 1094 00:59:58,474 --> 01:00:04,522 as she was referred to, was allegedly living. 1095 01:00:07,650 --> 01:00:09,694 Caylee was either with me at night or with my mom. 1096 01:00:09,736 --> 01:00:12,447 There was no third party. There was no other person. 1097 01:00:12,488 --> 01:00:16,492 I didn't trust anyone else to watch her overnight. 1098 01:00:16,534 --> 01:00:20,580 The whole nanny thing started because there were times 1099 01:00:20,621 --> 01:00:23,166 where I wanted to have a night with my friends, 1100 01:00:23,207 --> 01:00:24,834 but I also wanted to have my daughter there with me 1101 01:00:24,876 --> 01:00:27,712 because I knew my father was going to be home. 1102 01:00:27,754 --> 01:00:30,173 So I told my mom, "I'm going to drop her off 1103 01:00:30,214 --> 01:00:32,341 with my friend Zanny." 1104 01:00:32,383 --> 01:00:34,010 You know, that was kind of how that started 1105 01:00:34,052 --> 01:00:37,055 when Caylee was actually with me. 1106 01:00:37,096 --> 01:00:38,347 They weren't necessarily innocent lies. 1107 01:00:38,389 --> 01:00:39,682 They were lies and I was an adult 1108 01:00:39,724 --> 01:00:41,851 and it's the stupidest thing, but it's -- 1109 01:00:41,893 --> 01:00:43,561 again, it was like all of a sudden in my 20s, 1110 01:00:43,603 --> 01:00:47,356 I'm rebelling as a parent to have freedom. 1111 01:00:47,398 --> 01:00:49,734 And it wasn't the right thing. 1112 01:00:51,778 --> 01:00:55,198 -Let's go to the day where you tell law enforcement 1113 01:00:55,239 --> 01:00:57,200 about Zanny the Nanny. 1114 01:00:57,241 --> 01:00:59,118 Your dad told you say that? 1115 01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:03,498 -Told me to tell the cops what I told my mom. 1116 01:01:03,539 --> 01:01:08,378 Wanted me to be the biggest and best liar that I could be. 1117 01:01:08,419 --> 01:01:11,214 That's not what he said, but that's how I see it now, 1118 01:01:11,255 --> 01:01:13,966 because my father knew that if they looked at me 1119 01:01:14,008 --> 01:01:16,094 and that I was lying to them, they weren't going to believe 1120 01:01:16,135 --> 01:01:17,720 anything that I said, 1121 01:01:17,762 --> 01:01:23,393 even if, at that point, I said my father did all of this. 1122 01:01:23,434 --> 01:01:25,395 He knew. 1123 01:01:28,689 --> 01:01:31,567 -You felt that your dad had basically kidnapped her. 1124 01:01:31,609 --> 01:01:35,071 -And was keeping her from me, yes. 1125 01:01:35,113 --> 01:01:36,739 That whole time. 1126 01:01:36,781 --> 01:01:38,908 -Even though you felt that body in your arms 1127 01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:40,701 and you knew that something was terribly wrong. 1128 01:01:40,743 --> 01:01:43,454 -He told me she was going to be okay. 1129 01:01:43,496 --> 01:01:46,749 It's what I chose to accept. 1130 01:01:46,791 --> 01:01:48,710 There was that little girl inside of me 1131 01:01:48,751 --> 01:01:51,295 that wanted to believe he wouldn't hurt her 1132 01:01:51,337 --> 01:01:54,590 the way he hurt me. 1133 01:01:54,632 --> 01:01:56,342 -And you didn't think that there was any way 1134 01:01:56,384 --> 01:01:59,512 she could have drowned and he found her in the pool? 1135 01:02:00,346 --> 01:02:02,765 -No. -Even initially? 1136 01:02:02,807 --> 01:02:05,560 -No, she had no way of getting the pool. 1137 01:02:05,601 --> 01:02:07,770 There was nothing for her to have shimmied up. 1138 01:02:07,812 --> 01:02:10,773 To me, there's no way of explaining that... 1139 01:02:12,900 --> 01:02:15,486 ...unless he put her in the... 1140 01:02:16,738 --> 01:02:18,740 [ Sighs ] 1141 01:02:18,781 --> 01:02:21,784 Unless put her in the pool to cover up what he did. 1142 01:02:21,826 --> 01:02:26,122 ** 1143 01:02:26,164 --> 01:02:27,874 So if he decided to call the police 1144 01:02:27,915 --> 01:02:30,835 or if I decided to call the police... 1145 01:02:32,545 --> 01:02:34,338 ...that they would have looked at it as a drowning 1146 01:02:34,380 --> 01:02:36,799 and not actually examined her body. 1147 01:02:36,841 --> 01:02:40,803 ** 1148 01:02:40,845 --> 01:02:45,183 I'm sure there were times where I was incapacitated as a child, 1149 01:02:45,224 --> 01:02:48,269 where my body was limp and lifeless. 1150 01:02:48,311 --> 01:02:50,980 That's what I think about. I wish every day 1151 01:02:51,022 --> 01:02:54,567 I would have said something to somebody at some point. 1152 01:02:58,196 --> 01:03:01,699 Maybe things would be different. 1153 01:03:01,741 --> 01:03:03,659 Probably not. 1154 01:03:03,701 --> 01:03:09,207 ** 1155 01:03:09,248 --> 01:03:10,666 But there's always going to be 1156 01:03:10,708 --> 01:03:14,003 that little part of me that wonders. 1157 01:03:14,045 --> 01:03:15,797 -That wonders? 1158 01:03:15,838 --> 01:03:21,135 ** 1159 01:03:21,177 --> 01:03:22,762 -Because if she was still alive, 1160 01:03:22,804 --> 01:03:26,641 then where was she and what happened from there? 1161 01:03:26,682 --> 01:03:33,731 ** 1162 01:03:33,773 --> 01:03:36,109 Was there something that I could have done 1163 01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:37,985 to have changed things? 1164 01:03:40,822 --> 01:03:42,865 During all this time if she was alive, 1165 01:03:42,907 --> 01:03:45,284 if I didn't do what he said he wanted me to do, 1166 01:03:45,326 --> 01:03:46,869 or if I talked to my mom too much 1167 01:03:46,911 --> 01:03:47,912 or I said the wrong thing, 1168 01:03:47,954 --> 01:03:51,374 would it have triggered something? 1169 01:03:51,416 --> 01:03:54,794 All of my fear 1170 01:03:54,836 --> 01:03:59,549 just keeps becoming bigger and bigger... 1171 01:04:01,843 --> 01:04:04,011 ...as I knew what I lived through. 1172 01:04:07,932 --> 01:04:10,226 It's bad enough I had to imagine that it happened once, 1173 01:04:10,268 --> 01:04:14,480 but then to imagine that it could have kept happening. 1174 01:04:14,522 --> 01:04:17,650 -Did he take her away to abuse her? 1175 01:04:17,692 --> 01:04:20,236 That's the darkest question, isn't it? 1176 01:04:20,278 --> 01:04:28,578 ** 1177 01:04:28,619 --> 01:04:31,622 -That's why all of this is so hard. 1178 01:04:33,624 --> 01:04:36,461 I live with that guilt of feeling like I failed her 1179 01:04:36,502 --> 01:04:39,297 and didn't keep her safe and protect her. 1180 01:04:41,466 --> 01:04:44,594 I've always wanted the truth because I've lived 1181 01:04:44,635 --> 01:04:47,597 so long without it. 1182 01:04:47,638 --> 01:04:50,725 But I don't know if I could handle all of it. 1183 01:04:52,643 --> 01:04:54,604 I don't know if it would be better to know 1184 01:04:54,645 --> 01:04:57,732 or just keep not knowing, 1185 01:04:57,774 --> 01:04:59,484 because I don't know what the truth is. 1186 01:04:59,525 --> 01:05:02,487 All I know is that she's dead. 1187 01:05:03,071 --> 01:05:06,365 That something happened. 1188 01:05:13,414 --> 01:05:20,505 ** 1189 01:05:20,546 --> 01:05:23,299 -I think about this case all the time 1190 01:05:23,341 --> 01:05:25,760 all these years afterwards. 1191 01:05:28,846 --> 01:05:34,435 But, you know, so much added up to George 1192 01:05:34,477 --> 01:05:36,646 hiding this body. 1193 01:05:38,606 --> 01:05:42,652 All I know about incest is oftentimes, 1194 01:05:42,693 --> 01:05:46,656 if he's a pedophile abusing his own daughter, 1195 01:05:46,697 --> 01:05:49,659 as she gets older, as Casey did, 1196 01:05:49,700 --> 01:05:53,079 now we got a little one. He's more into the children. 1197 01:05:53,121 --> 01:05:56,082 And if he's a pedophile, I surmise that maybe 1198 01:05:56,124 --> 01:05:58,835 he had abused the little one, Caylee. 1199 01:05:58,876 --> 01:06:02,338 Maybe he thinks he holds her down long enough 1200 01:06:02,380 --> 01:06:05,633 where she passes out, and he can have his way with her. 1201 01:06:05,675 --> 01:06:09,679 Maybe that started this cover-up of what actually happened. 1202 01:06:09,721 --> 01:06:13,516 I'd like to go into a lot of detail with Casey 1203 01:06:13,558 --> 01:06:17,061 because she was there that day. 1204 01:06:19,981 --> 01:06:23,234 I'd want to go more into that with her. 1205 01:06:23,276 --> 01:06:26,404 What is George's role? 1206 01:06:26,446 --> 01:06:27,739 I think I already have coffee. 1207 01:06:27,780 --> 01:06:29,741 -Do you have coffee? Well, you have 1208 01:06:29,782 --> 01:06:32,869 fancy schmancy new mugs if you want them. 1209 01:06:32,910 --> 01:06:41,502 ** 1210 01:06:41,544 --> 01:06:43,546 [ Sighs ] 1211 01:06:43,588 --> 01:06:45,840 I don't think we've ever sat down in -- 1212 01:06:45,882 --> 01:06:48,718 I know we haven't sat down and ever talked about any of this, 1213 01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:50,803 like, talked this through. No, we've never done that. 1214 01:06:50,845 --> 01:06:54,098 -I didn't think we needed to until you decided 1215 01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:55,933 to do what we're doing now, you know, 1216 01:06:55,975 --> 01:06:58,561 which I thought was pretty admirable, 1217 01:06:58,603 --> 01:07:01,773 but, you know, we did our job. It was over. 1218 01:07:01,814 --> 01:07:05,568 And frankly, everybody I've ever talked to about the case 1219 01:07:05,610 --> 01:07:07,695 always says to me the same thing. 1220 01:07:07,737 --> 01:07:09,614 "What happened in those 30 days?" 1221 01:07:09,655 --> 01:07:13,659 And I said, "I don't know." 1222 01:07:13,701 --> 01:07:15,661 What happened those 31 days? Have you remembered? 1223 01:07:15,703 --> 01:07:17,747 -I was meeting up with George when he was asking me 1224 01:07:17,789 --> 01:07:20,750 to meet him at the house. 1225 01:07:20,792 --> 01:07:24,253 He had me hook, line, and sinker waiting for him 1226 01:07:24,295 --> 01:07:25,963 to tell me where to meet him. 1227 01:07:26,005 --> 01:07:28,883 He kept saying if I did what he wanted me to do, 1228 01:07:28,925 --> 01:07:32,387 tell Cindy what he wanted me to tell her, 1229 01:07:32,428 --> 01:07:33,930 because if I did what he wanted me to do, 1230 01:07:33,971 --> 01:07:36,474 he had me the whole time thinking Caylee was alive 1231 01:07:36,516 --> 01:07:37,600 and she was okay. -Oh, okay. 1232 01:07:37,642 --> 01:07:38,893 -The entire time. 1233 01:07:38,935 --> 01:07:40,770 -But why would he do that? 1234 01:07:40,812 --> 01:07:42,230 -I've been living with this since, 1235 01:07:42,271 --> 01:07:45,608 living with the same questions, and it's my life. 1236 01:07:45,650 --> 01:07:48,277 -Yeah. -And that's a hard thing 1237 01:07:48,319 --> 01:07:49,779 for me to reconcile. 1238 01:07:49,821 --> 01:07:52,990 I've spent the last 14 years, almost, 1239 01:07:53,032 --> 01:07:56,119 especially during this process, having those epiphany moments 1240 01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,621 where something clicks. 1241 01:07:58,663 --> 01:08:02,625 Watching for the first time 1242 01:08:02,667 --> 01:08:06,546 George's clips from the funeral 1243 01:08:06,587 --> 01:08:10,633 where he's talking about missing the smell of her sweet sweat. 1244 01:08:10,675 --> 01:08:12,468 -No, I know. 1245 01:08:12,510 --> 01:08:17,557 I've always had my eyeball on George and the pool. 1246 01:08:17,598 --> 01:08:20,643 It didn't make sense to me, 1247 01:08:20,685 --> 01:08:22,562 no 911 call. -Yeah. 1248 01:08:22,603 --> 01:08:24,105 -You know, if that's what would have happened, 1249 01:08:24,147 --> 01:08:26,149 there would have been a 911 call. 1250 01:08:26,190 --> 01:08:27,525 That's just my thoughts. 1251 01:08:27,567 --> 01:08:28,735 -The ladder wasn't on the pool, 1252 01:08:28,776 --> 01:08:29,986 so she couldn't have gotten in. 1253 01:08:30,027 --> 01:08:31,487 -So, none of that really -- 1254 01:08:31,529 --> 01:08:33,114 it didn't -- -None of it makes sense. 1255 01:08:33,156 --> 01:08:34,824 -Didn't make total sense, you know. 1256 01:08:34,866 --> 01:08:36,784 -Well, my thought was that he was using that 1257 01:08:36,826 --> 01:08:39,328 as a way to cover up, even then, what he had done. 1258 01:08:39,370 --> 01:08:42,623 -What he had done. Whatever this accident was 1259 01:08:42,665 --> 01:08:44,167 that he had done to Caylee. 1260 01:08:44,208 --> 01:08:47,253 And I got to tell you this for the first time. 1261 01:08:47,295 --> 01:08:57,055 ** 1262 01:08:57,096 --> 01:09:06,689 ** 1263 01:09:06,731 --> 01:09:08,274 I think there was an... 1264 01:09:08,316 --> 01:09:10,318 [ Clears throat ] 1265 01:09:15,573 --> 01:09:17,325 ...there was an accident. 1266 01:09:17,366 --> 01:09:23,623 ** 1267 01:09:23,664 --> 01:09:25,041 George was involved, and I don't think 1268 01:09:25,083 --> 01:09:27,460 the accident was in the pool. 1269 01:09:27,502 --> 01:09:32,006 ** 1270 01:09:32,048 --> 01:09:33,800 You know, after the case and everything, 1271 01:09:33,841 --> 01:09:35,718 I said George abused Caylee. 1272 01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,137 This is my opinion. 1273 01:09:38,179 --> 01:09:41,891 We never discussed this, but when he abused you, 1274 01:09:41,933 --> 01:09:45,144 was there anything that he did 1275 01:09:45,186 --> 01:09:48,022 that would make you think he did that to Caylee 1276 01:09:48,064 --> 01:09:49,482 to cause the accident? -Absolutely. 1277 01:09:49,524 --> 01:09:51,067 Absolutely. 1278 01:09:51,109 --> 01:09:54,278 If I didn't want to or if I said no... 1279 01:09:57,532 --> 01:09:59,033 ...he'd put a pillow over my face 1280 01:09:59,075 --> 01:10:01,661 and he'd smother me to knock me out. 1281 01:10:01,702 --> 01:10:04,956 -Really? -That happened several times. 1282 01:10:04,997 --> 01:10:07,792 -He'd take a pillow into your face? 1283 01:10:10,461 --> 01:10:13,256 That could be the accident. 1284 01:10:13,297 --> 01:10:15,800 -Possible. 1285 01:10:15,842 --> 01:10:18,219 -He abused her. 1286 01:10:18,261 --> 01:10:20,638 To stop noises, he'd grab a pillow, 1287 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:22,932 and that would be the accident. 1288 01:10:26,269 --> 01:10:27,770 Wow. 1289 01:10:27,812 --> 01:10:30,398 -[ Sighs ] 1290 01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:38,072 ** 1291 01:10:38,114 --> 01:10:45,329 ** 1292 01:10:45,371 --> 01:10:48,958 -I actually don't know what happened on Suburban Drive. 1293 01:10:52,503 --> 01:10:58,092 I think we don't like uncertainty. 1294 01:10:58,134 --> 01:11:00,678 And I think that's kind of a hard thing for us to deal with, 1295 01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:04,682 is we don't like cases where we don't know what happened. 1296 01:11:04,724 --> 01:11:07,977 We want them to be open and shut. 1297 01:11:08,019 --> 01:11:10,688 And that's not really ever how it works. 1298 01:11:10,730 --> 01:11:17,111 ** 1299 01:11:17,153 --> 01:11:19,989 The police never looked at George as a suspect. 1300 01:11:20,031 --> 01:11:23,868 That's not something they should have let go. 1301 01:11:23,910 --> 01:11:25,953 I think he definitely covered up a lot of things. 1302 01:11:25,995 --> 01:11:27,830 Whether he knew it was because Caylee was, 1303 01:11:27,872 --> 01:11:30,166 you know, dead or not, I don't know. 1304 01:11:30,208 --> 01:11:39,175 ** 1305 01:11:39,217 --> 01:11:41,344 -I would have done any and everything 1306 01:11:41,386 --> 01:11:45,473 that he told me to do. 1307 01:11:45,515 --> 01:11:49,519 But I did protect my abuser. 1308 01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,271 I protected her abuser. 1309 01:11:54,732 --> 01:11:57,944 And that crushes me. 1310 01:11:58,820 --> 01:12:02,407 I can't let that go. 1311 01:12:02,448 --> 01:12:04,700 -Why was your reflex to protect him? 1312 01:12:04,742 --> 01:12:08,746 -The same reason that so many victims protect their abusers. 1313 01:12:10,039 --> 01:12:13,126 'Cause you still love them 1314 01:12:13,167 --> 01:12:14,877 and you don't want to believe that they were doing 1315 01:12:14,919 --> 01:12:18,297 what they were doing because they were trying to hurt you. 1316 01:12:18,339 --> 01:12:27,223 ** 1317 01:12:27,265 --> 01:12:29,767 I am never going to have full closure. 1318 01:12:32,228 --> 01:12:35,773 And the irony for me is I think that's part of the reason 1319 01:12:35,815 --> 01:12:38,735 why people are still so hooked on this, 1320 01:12:38,776 --> 01:12:42,447 is because they feel they need closure. 1321 01:12:42,488 --> 01:12:47,410 It's like watching these reality shows or watching a movie 1322 01:12:47,452 --> 01:12:49,203 and you feel like you need to have this ending, 1323 01:12:49,245 --> 01:12:50,997 but if it's not the ending that you want, 1324 01:12:51,038 --> 01:12:54,208 are you ever going to have that sense of closure? 1325 01:12:56,335 --> 01:12:57,754 I didn't get the ending that I wanted 1326 01:12:57,795 --> 01:12:59,255 because I didn't get my kid back. 1327 01:12:59,297 --> 01:13:02,133 That's the only ending I wanted. 1328 01:13:03,384 --> 01:13:07,096 And that's the one thing I will never get out of all of this. 1329 01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:11,434 It's been hard to cope. 1330 01:13:14,854 --> 01:13:17,106 Not easier -- harder. 1331 01:13:18,816 --> 01:13:22,278 It's waking up every day and... 1332 01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:25,531 wishing that some days I would wake up and look over 1333 01:13:25,573 --> 01:13:27,366 and she'd be right there. 1334 01:13:27,408 --> 01:13:29,285 Sweet little kid. 1335 01:13:31,454 --> 01:13:35,374 That all of this is just the shittiest bad dream. 1336 01:13:38,294 --> 01:13:41,130 We all talk about all the things that we have in a lifetime, 1337 01:13:41,172 --> 01:13:44,467 and I had the shortest life with her. 1338 01:13:44,509 --> 01:13:51,224 ** 1339 01:13:51,265 --> 01:13:53,601 It's hard to deal with. 1340 01:13:53,643 --> 01:14:00,441 ** 1341 01:14:00,483 --> 01:14:02,652 -The quality of your voice as you speak to me now 1342 01:14:02,693 --> 01:14:05,530 is completely different than the beginning. 1343 01:14:08,157 --> 01:14:12,120 -I also just feel like I'm in a state of 1344 01:14:12,161 --> 01:14:14,288 trying to patch up the bleeding, 1345 01:14:14,330 --> 01:14:16,582 just like I was completely spliced open 1346 01:14:16,624 --> 01:14:19,961 and everything just came out, 1347 01:14:20,002 --> 01:14:23,297 everything that 1348 01:14:23,339 --> 01:14:27,468 I had been holding onto, even inadvertently. 1349 01:14:30,304 --> 01:14:33,599 I spent my entire life protecting our perfect, 1350 01:14:33,641 --> 01:14:35,685 beautiful little family. 1351 01:14:35,727 --> 01:14:38,730 But I failed at my one job, which was protecting my kid, 1352 01:14:38,771 --> 01:14:42,525 so I'm angry... 1353 01:14:43,985 --> 01:14:46,320 ...that I'm a victim, 1354 01:14:46,362 --> 01:14:49,699 and that I wasn't there to fight for my kid 1355 01:14:49,741 --> 01:14:52,827 in the way that I should have been able to. 1356 01:14:52,869 --> 01:14:58,666 ** 1357 01:14:58,708 --> 01:15:02,336 It's a hard thing to deal with. 1358 01:15:02,378 --> 01:15:06,257 It's a hard thing to live with every day. 1359 01:15:06,299 --> 01:15:09,093 Because nothing's going to bring her back. 1360 01:15:10,636 --> 01:15:12,055 Nothing. 1361 01:15:12,096 --> 01:15:16,434 Even if I someday get the answers that... 1362 01:15:18,686 --> 01:15:21,981 ...I need, 1363 01:15:22,023 --> 01:15:23,775 it's never going to be enough. 1364 01:15:23,816 --> 01:15:25,610 ** 1365 01:15:25,651 --> 01:15:28,362 -No. 1366 01:15:28,404 --> 01:15:30,907 No. -It's never gonna be enough. 1367 01:15:30,948 --> 01:15:41,584 ** 1368 01:15:41,626 --> 01:15:52,345 ** 1369 01:15:52,387 --> 01:16:02,855 ** 1370 01:16:02,897 --> 01:16:05,483 This was my childhood home. 1371 01:16:08,861 --> 01:16:10,780 I hate this house so much. 1372 01:16:10,822 --> 01:16:15,993 I feel like part of me will always, always be trapped here. 1373 01:16:16,035 --> 01:16:18,246 But it's a part of me that I try so hard 1374 01:16:18,287 --> 01:16:21,457 to continue to just let go. 1375 01:16:23,918 --> 01:16:26,129 That scared little girl. 1376 01:16:26,170 --> 01:16:30,925 But this is also where I brought my little girl home. 1377 01:16:30,967 --> 01:16:33,469 So... 1378 01:16:33,511 --> 01:16:35,221 as much as I want to hate this house, 1379 01:16:35,263 --> 01:16:36,973 part of me will always love it, too, 1380 01:16:37,014 --> 01:16:38,766 because it was her home. 1381 01:16:43,229 --> 01:16:45,106 The only good thing that's left at that house 1382 01:16:45,148 --> 01:16:48,443 are just the memories that I had with her. 1383 01:16:48,484 --> 01:16:52,029 There's a box of ashes inside. 1384 01:16:52,071 --> 01:16:56,075 That has this etched picture of Caylee on it. 1385 01:16:56,117 --> 01:16:57,410 And an inscription. 1386 01:16:57,452 --> 01:17:01,622 And I have asked several times now for them. 1387 01:17:01,664 --> 01:17:04,542 And my mom won't give them back to me. 1388 01:17:06,961 --> 01:17:10,339 I would like to... 1389 01:17:10,381 --> 01:17:14,010 take them and scatter them and take her to all the places 1390 01:17:14,052 --> 01:17:17,138 that she should have been able to go and see herself. 1391 01:17:17,180 --> 01:17:18,598 I wanted her to travel, 1392 01:17:18,639 --> 01:17:22,185 to do all the things I never got a chance to do. 1393 01:17:22,226 --> 01:17:27,690 To not have her trapped in a box on a shelf. 1394 01:17:27,732 --> 01:17:32,528 ** 1395 01:17:32,570 --> 01:17:36,741 All of the rest -- not worth holding onto. 1396 01:17:39,035 --> 01:17:41,454 It's just easier to let it all go. 1397 01:17:41,496 --> 01:17:48,753 ** 1398 01:17:48,795 --> 01:17:51,172 [ Sighs ] 1399 01:17:51,214 --> 01:17:53,716 I'm definitely done here. 1400 01:17:53,758 --> 01:18:05,144 ** 1401 01:18:05,186 --> 01:18:16,823 ** 1402 01:18:16,864 --> 01:18:28,251 ** 1403 01:18:28,292 --> 01:18:30,712 Can't leave this place without crying. 1404 01:18:32,839 --> 01:18:34,757 Not even now. 1405 01:18:34,799 --> 01:18:38,928 ** 1406 01:18:38,970 --> 01:18:40,388 [ Sighs ]