1 00:00:12,013 --> 00:00:14,474 Sometime around 2005, 2 00:00:15,016 --> 00:00:17,685 my mother and I were at Palm Beach Country Club. 3 00:00:18,269 --> 00:00:20,980 It was a beautiful day. We played golf. 4 00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:28,362 And we went upstairs to the balcony to eat lunch. 5 00:00:28,446 --> 00:00:29,447 We were seated, 6 00:00:29,947 --> 00:00:32,116 and there was only one other couple there, 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,703 and it was Bernie Madoff and his wife, Ruth. 8 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:38,956 And my mother immediately noticed. 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,333 "Oh, it's Bernie." 10 00:00:40,416 --> 00:00:43,795 She went up and started talking, "Hi," and introduced me. 11 00:00:44,378 --> 00:00:47,006 "This is Jeff, my son. He has an account with you." 12 00:00:48,424 --> 00:00:50,426 And I shook Mr. Madoff's hand. 13 00:00:50,510 --> 00:00:52,178 And I was, like, in awe. 14 00:00:52,804 --> 00:00:55,223 He was the god of Palm Beach. 15 00:00:56,557 --> 00:00:58,518 He was the god of finance. 16 00:00:59,977 --> 00:01:01,646 We went back to the table, 17 00:01:02,688 --> 00:01:05,858 and my mother, in her fashion, said, 18 00:01:05,942 --> 00:01:09,529 "Oh, what a wonderful man." 19 00:01:09,612 --> 00:01:13,950 But then she said, "There's just one thing about him though." 20 00:01:15,743 --> 00:01:17,787 "He never looks you in the eye." 21 00:01:20,540 --> 00:01:22,667 My mother got it before anybody. 22 00:01:22,750 --> 00:01:24,669 She just didn't put it together. 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,132 Because this god was a demon, a devil. 24 00:01:31,843 --> 00:01:33,970 Bernie Madoff has been arrested. 25 00:01:34,053 --> 00:01:37,223 He's the founder of Bernie Madoff Investment Securities. 26 00:01:37,306 --> 00:01:38,307 He's 70 years old. 27 00:01:38,391 --> 00:01:40,184 He is a fixture on Wall Street. 28 00:01:40,268 --> 00:01:43,771 Bernie Madoff, 70 years old, arrested by the FBI. 29 00:01:43,855 --> 00:01:48,359 This former iconic figure on Wall Street has allegedly, but by his own admission, 30 00:01:48,442 --> 00:01:51,737 destroyed many lives, charities, and reputations on Wall Street 31 00:01:51,821 --> 00:01:52,905 and around the world. 32 00:01:54,282 --> 00:01:56,492 A walk of shame, and shoving. 33 00:01:56,576 --> 00:01:57,660 Don't push me. 34 00:01:59,328 --> 00:02:01,414 People think they know this story. 35 00:02:01,497 --> 00:02:04,917 They think it's a story about one man, 36 00:02:05,001 --> 00:02:08,546 but when you pull back the curtain, it's actually about so much more. 37 00:02:12,133 --> 00:02:14,969 Bernie Madoff ran the biggest criminal enterprise 38 00:02:15,052 --> 00:02:16,554 in the history of Wall Street. 39 00:02:16,637 --> 00:02:20,308 He was a financial sociopath, a serial financial killer. 40 00:02:21,058 --> 00:02:23,269 He was kind of like an uncle figure to me. 41 00:02:23,352 --> 00:02:26,147 He was someone who I really liked and I trusted, 42 00:02:26,230 --> 00:02:29,609 and then there's this monster that's living this lie. 43 00:02:30,151 --> 00:02:33,070 Trust. Betrayal. Pure evil. 44 00:02:33,654 --> 00:02:36,657 A hundred years from now, people will remember this story. 45 00:02:37,241 --> 00:02:39,952 We're talking about $64 billion. 46 00:02:40,036 --> 00:02:42,163 When you see that many zeros, 47 00:02:42,788 --> 00:02:43,664 it's mind-boggling. 48 00:02:44,624 --> 00:02:46,542 You had to step through the looking glass 49 00:02:46,626 --> 00:02:50,713 into this alternate reality where literally nothing was real. 50 00:02:51,214 --> 00:02:53,591 It was all fake. The money went poof. 51 00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:55,426 Gone. 52 00:02:56,510 --> 00:02:59,096 It's one thing to lose your life savings. 53 00:02:59,180 --> 00:03:02,183 But when you lose our house too, it's terrible. 54 00:03:03,434 --> 00:03:06,771 How could he fool so many people for so long? 55 00:03:06,854 --> 00:03:09,232 What happened was so avoidable, 56 00:03:09,815 --> 00:03:13,402 and so many people enabled it to happen because of greed. 57 00:03:14,528 --> 00:03:16,072 It's about the big banks. 58 00:03:16,155 --> 00:03:18,824 It's about the regulatory agencies. 59 00:03:18,908 --> 00:03:23,287 It's about this whole ecosystem 60 00:03:23,371 --> 00:03:26,499 that completely and utterly failed. 61 00:03:27,416 --> 00:03:31,087 You're going to put billions into something, you check everything. 62 00:03:32,213 --> 00:03:34,340 Even if God sends you a résumé… 63 00:03:35,841 --> 00:03:37,009 check the references. 64 00:03:39,095 --> 00:03:41,847 Mr. Madoff, by your own admission, 65 00:03:41,931 --> 00:03:43,266 you lied for a living. 66 00:03:43,349 --> 00:03:46,435 -Isn't that true? You lied for a living. -Yeah. Yeah. 67 00:03:47,311 --> 00:03:50,606 Nobody can figure out, "Why did Bernie Madoff do this?" 68 00:03:51,148 --> 00:03:53,359 He had a very successful business 69 00:03:53,442 --> 00:03:56,779 that was the envy of everybody on Wall Street. 70 00:03:57,613 --> 00:04:02,493 Everybody says, "Why would Bernie Madoff commit the largest fraud in history?" 71 00:04:04,537 --> 00:04:07,623 Nothing in this industry is what it looks like. 72 00:04:08,207 --> 00:04:12,336 That's why the industry runs, because… 73 00:04:12,420 --> 00:04:14,922 You also have to understand one thing. 74 00:04:15,006 --> 00:04:16,841 The one thing every one of them was, 75 00:04:16,924 --> 00:04:19,260 which is everybody in the industry, is they're greedy. 76 00:05:18,861 --> 00:05:21,989 We begin our coverage tonight of what's been called 77 00:05:22,073 --> 00:05:25,284 the worst financial crisis in modern times. 78 00:05:25,368 --> 00:05:29,497 Certainly, the largest financial disaster in decades in this country. 79 00:05:30,081 --> 00:05:33,542 In 2008, the economy was being decimated. 80 00:05:33,626 --> 00:05:36,462 This was Armageddon. 81 00:05:36,545 --> 00:05:38,422 Wall Street in crisis mode this morning. 82 00:05:38,506 --> 00:05:41,759 Reeling because of these bad real estate loans. 83 00:05:41,842 --> 00:05:43,219 Mortgage brokers 84 00:05:43,302 --> 00:05:46,389 had been selling mortgages to people that couldn't afford them. 85 00:05:46,472 --> 00:05:49,642 Wall Street knew a lot of them were shit, 86 00:05:49,725 --> 00:05:52,561 packaged them and sold them to their clients, 87 00:05:52,645 --> 00:05:54,522 whereupon they blew up. 88 00:05:54,605 --> 00:05:59,402 Foreclosures across the country are up a staggering 87%. 89 00:05:59,485 --> 00:06:02,113 Property values nationwide this year 90 00:06:02,196 --> 00:06:04,740 could drop more than half a trillion dollars. 91 00:06:04,824 --> 00:06:07,535 It's mind-boggling. Everybody's losing their homes. 92 00:06:07,618 --> 00:06:09,286 The stock market is just cratering. 93 00:06:09,370 --> 00:06:11,747 -Every day is worse than the day before. 94 00:06:11,831 --> 00:06:14,500 The Dow down nearly 450 points. 95 00:06:14,583 --> 00:06:16,836 We just hit 730 or something. 96 00:06:16,919 --> 00:06:18,546 That's… We've never seen that. 97 00:06:18,629 --> 00:06:21,507 Traders in Tokyo worried about a spreading US recession. 98 00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:23,717 Every bank was falling to pieces. 99 00:06:23,801 --> 00:06:26,679 Lehman Brothers says it will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. 100 00:06:26,762 --> 00:06:29,640 The financial crisis continues to cause panic. 101 00:06:29,723 --> 00:06:33,978 We are faced with the prospect of a global meltdown. 102 00:06:34,061 --> 00:06:37,773 This was this once-in-a-century, cataclysmic event 103 00:06:37,857 --> 00:06:40,818 that was causing carnage throughout the system, 104 00:06:40,901 --> 00:06:42,153 and then there was Bernie. 105 00:06:42,236 --> 00:06:43,696 Now to what turns out to be 106 00:06:43,779 --> 00:06:46,615 the biggest Ponzi scheme in the history of Wall Street. 107 00:06:46,699 --> 00:06:50,286 Fallout from allegations against Bernie Madoff 108 00:06:50,369 --> 00:06:55,749 in the realization that as much as $50 billion investors thought they had, 109 00:06:55,833 --> 00:06:57,126 is simply gone. 110 00:06:57,209 --> 00:06:58,669 How do you feel? 111 00:06:58,752 --> 00:07:03,174 Bernie Madoff was arrested on Thursday, December 11, 2008. 112 00:07:04,008 --> 00:07:09,138 Friday morning, FBI agents show up to Madoff's offices 113 00:07:09,221 --> 00:07:13,434 in the very upscale Lipstick Building on the east side of New York. 114 00:07:13,517 --> 00:07:17,313 We walked into the lobby of the Lipstick Building, 115 00:07:17,396 --> 00:07:21,650 and it resembled the scene from the movie Frankenstein, 116 00:07:22,401 --> 00:07:28,491 where you have the angry villagers with their pitchforks and the torches 117 00:07:28,574 --> 00:07:31,410 wanting to get upstairs to kill the monster. 118 00:07:32,620 --> 00:07:36,499 So FBI agents come up with their raid jackets on, 119 00:07:36,582 --> 00:07:40,586 and I'm the first agent through the door. 120 00:07:45,883 --> 00:07:49,595 All the employees had been corralled on the 19th floor. 121 00:07:50,221 --> 00:07:51,931 It's just total chaos. 122 00:07:58,729 --> 00:08:01,315 There's employees crying, 123 00:08:01,941 --> 00:08:04,235 trying to figure out what's going on. 124 00:08:04,860 --> 00:08:07,821 The FBI was the lead criminal investigation agency, 125 00:08:07,905 --> 00:08:11,909 but we also had IRS, Department of Labor, accountants, 126 00:08:11,992 --> 00:08:15,246 the agency that oversees the brokerage industry, SIPC. 127 00:08:15,746 --> 00:08:18,457 They start disconnecting people's access. 128 00:08:18,999 --> 00:08:23,420 I was a little surprised because it looked like a legitimate business. 129 00:08:24,088 --> 00:08:28,884 Computers everywhere, clocks showing different time zones… 130 00:08:28,968 --> 00:08:31,679 It looked like a legit trading business. 131 00:08:33,806 --> 00:08:36,058 As we're conducting the search, 132 00:08:36,141 --> 00:08:40,479 I walk into Bernie's office and start getting a sense of the man, 133 00:08:40,563 --> 00:08:42,982 who he is and what he's about. 134 00:08:43,065 --> 00:08:47,987 To the left are these Lichtenstein prints all with a bull motif. 135 00:08:48,779 --> 00:08:51,782 To me, the bull didn't stand for bull market. 136 00:08:51,865 --> 00:08:53,701 It actually meant bullshit. 137 00:08:54,910 --> 00:09:00,291 And right behind his desk, there is a very modern piece of art, 138 00:09:00,374 --> 00:09:01,834 and it's a giant screw. 139 00:09:03,085 --> 00:09:08,716 I think the screw was basically a big… "screw you" to the world. 140 00:09:11,427 --> 00:09:14,638 The office has been secured, we have Bernie Madoff in custody, 141 00:09:14,722 --> 00:09:16,640 and we just know a lot of money is missing. 142 00:09:16,724 --> 00:09:20,477 Our biggest problem was, we don't know how it happened. 143 00:09:20,561 --> 00:09:22,229 You have a bunch of employees 144 00:09:22,313 --> 00:09:25,107 and you don't know who's guilty, who's innocent. 145 00:09:25,899 --> 00:09:28,527 We want to know how many people were victimized. 146 00:09:28,611 --> 00:09:30,821 How much money was stolen. 147 00:09:30,904 --> 00:09:33,324 What was the scale of this. 148 00:09:33,407 --> 00:09:37,828 And we want to know who else was doing this with him. 149 00:09:38,954 --> 00:09:41,915 Who are the players? What is everybody's role? 150 00:09:41,999 --> 00:09:43,417 Where's the money? 151 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:45,753 Who benefited from this crime? 152 00:09:46,712 --> 00:09:53,385 Because there is no way you can run a $50 billion Ponzi scheme 153 00:09:53,469 --> 00:09:56,305 and not have anybody else know about it. 154 00:10:00,851 --> 00:10:04,855 With Bernie Madoff, it's very hard to figure out 155 00:10:04,938 --> 00:10:07,816 where the truth ended and the lies began. 156 00:10:10,527 --> 00:10:14,782 Look, I'm not proud that I did what I did. 157 00:10:15,407 --> 00:10:19,370 I spent a lot of hours trying to analyze why I did what I did. 158 00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:23,749 One of my problems was I always wanted to please everybody. 159 00:10:24,458 --> 00:10:28,379 When I started doing business, people showed a lot of faith in me. 160 00:10:28,462 --> 00:10:29,922 Now, I made them a lot of money, 161 00:10:30,005 --> 00:10:33,467 and everybody in the industry thought I was like, this terrific success story, 162 00:10:33,550 --> 00:10:34,885 which I was. 163 00:10:37,012 --> 00:10:39,973 Mr. Madoff, do you agree to the first sentence on page seven? 164 00:10:40,557 --> 00:10:43,018 That that is an accurate reflection of your business? 165 00:10:43,102 --> 00:10:45,604 "When Madoff began a retail business in 1960…" 166 00:10:45,688 --> 00:10:48,482 -Yes. -"…he had about a dozen clients, 167 00:10:48,565 --> 00:10:50,484 all of whom are family and friends"? Yes. 168 00:10:51,443 --> 00:10:53,862 Well, let's go back to the beginning. 169 00:10:57,616 --> 00:11:01,870 Bernie Madoff is the son of Jewish immigrants. 170 00:11:02,996 --> 00:11:07,376 His grandparents came over from Russia and Poland. 171 00:11:07,459 --> 00:11:10,087 He grows up in Laurelton, Queens, 172 00:11:10,170 --> 00:11:12,089 just outside of New York City. 173 00:11:13,424 --> 00:11:15,592 It's important to put 174 00:11:15,676 --> 00:11:18,762 Madoff's early years in the right historical context. 175 00:11:19,888 --> 00:11:21,890 The United States, and most of the world, 176 00:11:21,974 --> 00:11:27,479 had struggled through the most horrendous Depression in the '30s. 177 00:11:28,981 --> 00:11:31,692 And then the war in the '40s. 178 00:11:32,818 --> 00:11:37,698 A decade and a half of turbulence, of trauma. 179 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,616 So, by the '50s, 180 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:45,080 there was a hunger for quiet, for peace, for normality. 181 00:11:45,164 --> 00:11:46,290 And that hunger 182 00:11:46,373 --> 00:11:51,336 became this conformist culture of the American suburbs. 183 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,090 Most Americans are moving into a new-moneyed middle-class. 184 00:11:55,174 --> 00:11:58,594 They're promised an almost unlimited capacity to consume. 185 00:11:58,677 --> 00:12:01,221 And that was where Bernie's father 186 00:12:01,305 --> 00:12:06,143 was able to move the family to solidly middle-class Queens. 187 00:12:06,226 --> 00:12:09,104 Bernie's parents were named Ralph and Sylvia. 188 00:12:09,188 --> 00:12:10,689 His mother was a homemaker. 189 00:12:10,773 --> 00:12:12,816 His father worked various odd jobs. 190 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:17,946 Bernie is an average kid who goes to public school. 191 00:12:18,030 --> 00:12:21,408 He was kind of an awkward guy. I heard one story in particular. 192 00:12:21,492 --> 00:12:24,286 He couldn't get this girl to come out and play with him, right? 193 00:12:24,369 --> 00:12:26,580 He finally offered her 25 cents, 194 00:12:26,663 --> 00:12:28,457 and she came out and played with him. 195 00:12:28,540 --> 00:12:33,295 Bernie learned at a very young age how to motivate people with money. 196 00:12:34,755 --> 00:12:37,174 In high school, he was a lifeguard. 197 00:12:37,257 --> 00:12:40,803 He sees himself as not only a doer of good, 198 00:12:40,886 --> 00:12:42,846 but a protector. 199 00:12:42,930 --> 00:12:44,139 "I'm the go-to guy." 200 00:12:44,890 --> 00:12:48,477 And he sold lawn sprinkler equipment on the side. 201 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:49,812 He wanted to make money. 202 00:12:50,938 --> 00:12:52,981 He was determined to be successful. 203 00:12:59,780 --> 00:13:02,783 Bernie met his future wife, Ruth Alpern, 204 00:13:02,866 --> 00:13:04,910 at a party in a friend's basement. 205 00:13:05,536 --> 00:13:08,580 This was a time of bobby socks and poodle skirts. 206 00:13:08,664 --> 00:13:11,041 It was a high-school sweetheart romance. 207 00:13:14,586 --> 00:13:16,755 Ruth was very smart. 208 00:13:16,839 --> 00:13:21,385 When she graduated from high school, she went to college, 209 00:13:21,468 --> 00:13:23,595 which was unusual for women at that time. 210 00:13:24,263 --> 00:13:26,640 She was beautiful and elegant. 211 00:13:26,723 --> 00:13:28,809 She was obviously from more money. 212 00:13:28,892 --> 00:13:33,272 Her father, Saul Alpern, ran a successful accounting business in New York City, 213 00:13:33,355 --> 00:13:35,107 so she was like a catch for him. 214 00:13:35,732 --> 00:13:38,944 Ruth's father didn't think that Bernie was good enough for her, 215 00:13:39,027 --> 00:13:40,654 that she could have done better, 216 00:13:40,737 --> 00:13:44,575 that this kid was just never going to make much of himself. 217 00:13:45,075 --> 00:13:47,202 Bernie's own dad wanted him to be a lawyer, 218 00:13:47,286 --> 00:13:50,747 and Bernie did well enough in school to get into law school. 219 00:13:50,831 --> 00:13:54,334 He spent one year there and then just couldn't stick it any further. 220 00:13:56,461 --> 00:13:59,590 Bernie Madoff lived in the shadow of failure. 221 00:14:00,257 --> 00:14:02,718 Bernie's family was engulfed in failure. 222 00:14:02,801 --> 00:14:04,803 Over time, his father had several businesses. 223 00:14:04,887 --> 00:14:07,431 They all seemed to fail for one reason or the other. 224 00:14:08,056 --> 00:14:10,893 At one point, a tax lien was put on the family home. 225 00:14:10,976 --> 00:14:15,606 At another point, his mother had to go to work at a local blood bank 226 00:14:15,689 --> 00:14:17,649 to help the family get through. 227 00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:24,197 This was not how the successful suburban family was supposed to operate, 228 00:14:24,281 --> 00:14:27,200 and it instilled in Madoff 229 00:14:27,284 --> 00:14:32,581 an absolutely non-negotiable requirement to succeed, 230 00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:36,793 to not be a failure like his dad. 231 00:14:36,877 --> 00:14:41,006 All of us have the possibility of living better than we do right now. 232 00:14:42,090 --> 00:14:48,013 What he wanted was the fast, flamboyant success of Wall Street. 233 00:14:49,348 --> 00:14:51,808 Wall Street, the financial heart of the nation. 234 00:14:51,892 --> 00:14:54,937 Nerve center of American business and industry. 235 00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:59,608 This was an era on Wall Street when "fast" and "flamboyant" were the operative words. 236 00:15:00,275 --> 00:15:03,570 This was the '60s, the go-go years. 237 00:15:03,654 --> 00:15:05,906 High risk, high returns. 238 00:15:05,989 --> 00:15:11,328 Young traders, young money managers flooding into a post-war market. 239 00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:13,664 Through the investment banking industry, 240 00:15:13,747 --> 00:15:17,918 we can invest our savings, vitalize our industrial plants, 241 00:15:18,001 --> 00:15:21,171 and continue to give ourselves the steadily rising level 242 00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:23,382 of goods and services we all want. 243 00:15:23,966 --> 00:15:28,178 We have the privilege of underwriting America's future. 244 00:15:31,223 --> 00:15:34,059 A few weeks after Bernie and Ruth married, 245 00:15:34,142 --> 00:15:36,436 he decided to plant his flag 246 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,440 in a tiny little desk in Ruth's father's accounting firm. 247 00:15:41,483 --> 00:15:43,527 He started off with $5,000, 248 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:49,616 and he registered Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities, BLMIS, in 1960. 249 00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:51,660 And Ruth was involved in the business. 250 00:15:51,743 --> 00:15:55,414 She helped with administrative work and often dealt with the checkbook. 251 00:15:56,748 --> 00:16:00,919 Bernie, from the beginning, saw himself as a good guy 252 00:16:01,003 --> 00:16:03,255 that was going to go on and tackle the system 253 00:16:03,338 --> 00:16:05,132 and beat them at their own game. 254 00:16:05,757 --> 00:16:10,095 Bernie began trading in over-the-counter stocks. 255 00:16:10,178 --> 00:16:13,682 At that time, the stock market, to most affluent Americans, 256 00:16:13,765 --> 00:16:15,809 meant the New York Stock Exchange. 257 00:16:15,892 --> 00:16:21,189 But there was a huge market, unseen by most investors, 258 00:16:21,273 --> 00:16:24,609 that didn't have a building, called the over-the-counter market. 259 00:16:25,193 --> 00:16:29,448 It was comprised of a bunch of dealers and traders with a telephone, 260 00:16:29,531 --> 00:16:30,574 that was it. 261 00:16:31,241 --> 00:16:35,579 That market was made up of this garbage bin, if you will, 262 00:16:35,662 --> 00:16:38,081 of companies that were not reputable enough, 263 00:16:38,165 --> 00:16:41,585 or were too small, or were frankly disreputable, 264 00:16:41,668 --> 00:16:43,587 traded in what's called the pink sheets, 265 00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:46,673 over the counter, outside of the New York Stock Exchange. 266 00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:50,385 And Bernie stood ready to buy or sell 267 00:16:50,469 --> 00:16:55,557 in an increasingly large roster of over-the-counter stocks. 268 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:02,272 And no one knew exactly what prices were being charged for those stocks. 269 00:17:02,898 --> 00:17:04,566 Back then, there were no computers. 270 00:17:04,649 --> 00:17:06,359 The Internet didn't exist. 271 00:17:06,443 --> 00:17:07,652 There was no app for this. 272 00:17:07,736 --> 00:17:11,823 This was literally, you pick up the phone, you call Bobby in Boston, 273 00:17:11,907 --> 00:17:15,368 you say, "I've got 100 shares." He says he's gonna buy 100 shares. 274 00:17:15,452 --> 00:17:18,080 You agree on the price over the phone, 275 00:17:18,163 --> 00:17:20,707 and then you literally mail them the certificates. 276 00:17:20,791 --> 00:17:24,127 This was the Wild West of Wall Street. 277 00:17:24,961 --> 00:17:26,588 The risks were huge. 278 00:17:26,671 --> 00:17:28,840 The potential profits were huge. 279 00:17:28,924 --> 00:17:33,053 You had to have nerves of steel, ice water in your veins 280 00:17:33,136 --> 00:17:37,140 to be able to navigate this market day in and day out. 281 00:17:37,224 --> 00:17:38,225 Bernie had those. 282 00:17:39,309 --> 00:17:42,020 It was a very successful business, and it grew quickly. 283 00:17:43,021 --> 00:17:44,773 But on the side, 284 00:17:44,856 --> 00:17:48,985 he began running this very small investment advisory business. 285 00:17:51,196 --> 00:17:54,449 Bernie thinks, "In addition to the over-the-counter business, 286 00:17:54,533 --> 00:17:58,703 I can manage some money for people acting as a pure investment advisor." 287 00:17:58,787 --> 00:18:01,373 And this is where you manage people's money. 288 00:18:01,456 --> 00:18:05,919 You make the investments for them and try to earn them returns, 289 00:18:06,002 --> 00:18:09,131 but you earn fees rather than commissions. 290 00:18:09,214 --> 00:18:12,634 It's much more profitable than doing commission-based business. 291 00:18:13,802 --> 00:18:16,721 It turns out that his father-in-law, Saul Alpern, 292 00:18:16,805 --> 00:18:19,891 has a lot of clients that he'd done accounting business for, 293 00:18:19,975 --> 00:18:21,935 that he started to refer to his son-in-law. 294 00:18:23,645 --> 00:18:27,149 So, Bernie ended up with this group of 20 to 24 people 295 00:18:27,232 --> 00:18:28,984 wanting to do investments with him. 296 00:18:29,860 --> 00:18:33,989 The form that Madoff's early investment advisory business took 297 00:18:34,072 --> 00:18:38,910 was a little unusual, and I might argue, a little bit outside the lines. 298 00:18:38,994 --> 00:18:40,078 Saul Alpern, 299 00:18:40,162 --> 00:18:44,541 instead of just having Bernie set up individual accounts for these clients, 300 00:18:44,624 --> 00:18:47,377 he decided to make it easy on his son-in-law. 301 00:18:47,460 --> 00:18:49,588 He would pool all of their money 302 00:18:49,671 --> 00:18:52,799 and then give that money to Bernie to invest. 303 00:18:52,883 --> 00:18:56,219 And then when Bernie reported back the profits, 304 00:18:56,303 --> 00:19:00,765 Saul would allocate the profits among the investors in the pool. 305 00:19:00,849 --> 00:19:04,269 A careful lawyer would have told Saul Alpern, "You can't do this." 306 00:19:05,020 --> 00:19:07,731 It was essentially an unregulated mutual fund. 307 00:19:08,773 --> 00:19:10,650 Beyond around 20 accounts, 308 00:19:10,734 --> 00:19:14,613 you are required to register with the government, with the SEC. 309 00:19:14,696 --> 00:19:18,074 But Bernie Madoff doesn't register as an investment advisor. 310 00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:20,368 So, from the very beginning, 311 00:19:20,452 --> 00:19:25,999 you can see the cellular division that shaped the rest of Bernie's career. 312 00:19:26,082 --> 00:19:29,794 He had a legitimate trading business in the over-the-counter market. 313 00:19:29,878 --> 00:19:33,965 And on the side, he had a private investment advisory business 314 00:19:34,049 --> 00:19:35,717 that not many people knew about, 315 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,096 that he wasn't really running according to all the rules in the rule book. 316 00:19:40,805 --> 00:19:42,474 He's completely driven 317 00:19:42,557 --> 00:19:46,269 to make it on Wall Street from nowhere, from nothing, 318 00:19:46,353 --> 00:19:51,524 and to avoid the failure that he watched befall his parents, and rise to the top. 319 00:19:53,068 --> 00:19:55,987 In his unofficial investment advisory business, 320 00:19:56,071 --> 00:20:02,077 Bernie invested his clients' savings in wildly speculative stocks. 321 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:08,291 He was making money, he was taking risks, he was taking very big risks. 322 00:20:09,084 --> 00:20:11,628 And then came May 1962. 323 00:20:11,711 --> 00:20:15,090 Headline news is made in a mighty avalanche of selling, 324 00:20:15,173 --> 00:20:17,050 which sees stock prices dive 325 00:20:17,133 --> 00:20:20,136 and more than $20 billion in paper values lost. 326 00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:22,639 The biggest drop since 1929. 327 00:20:23,306 --> 00:20:27,477 Suddenly, the market just dropped like a stone, 328 00:20:28,603 --> 00:20:31,606 and the first securities to go up in smoke 329 00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:36,486 are the speculative stocks that Bernie has bought for these private clients. 330 00:20:37,195 --> 00:20:39,406 They're wiped out almost immediately. 331 00:20:40,365 --> 00:20:43,326 The customers, theoretically, lost their money. 332 00:20:43,410 --> 00:20:46,830 The total investment that they had made was $30,000. 333 00:20:46,913 --> 00:20:49,291 I felt guilty because of the fact 334 00:20:49,374 --> 00:20:52,544 that they bought the stock because I told them to buy the stock. 335 00:20:53,545 --> 00:20:55,755 But, rather than admit 336 00:20:55,839 --> 00:20:59,759 that he had taken ridiculous risks with their money and lost it all, 337 00:20:59,843 --> 00:21:02,429 he decides to cover them up. 338 00:21:03,138 --> 00:21:06,224 He had to go to his father-in-law, Saul Alpern, 339 00:21:06,308 --> 00:21:08,184 and borrow $30,000, 340 00:21:08,727 --> 00:21:10,103 and he paid them all back. 341 00:21:11,813 --> 00:21:16,359 He uses the $30,000 to make them whole in their accounts, 342 00:21:16,443 --> 00:21:18,903 and then he lies to them about what he's done. 343 00:21:18,987 --> 00:21:22,490 The outcome of his lies was that he looked like a genius. 344 00:21:22,574 --> 00:21:24,784 He looked like an incredible success, 345 00:21:24,868 --> 00:21:28,330 a brilliant strategist that navigated 346 00:21:28,413 --> 00:21:33,418 the worst week in the stock market since 1929, without losing a nickel. 347 00:21:34,586 --> 00:21:39,299 At that intersection, he had to accept being a liar 348 00:21:40,133 --> 00:21:41,301 or a failure. 349 00:21:43,678 --> 00:21:46,389 And the choice he made was, 350 00:21:46,473 --> 00:21:48,850 he could live with himself as a liar 351 00:21:49,809 --> 00:21:53,271 much more easily than he could live with himself as a failure. 352 00:22:12,165 --> 00:22:16,711 The whole world is watching! 353 00:22:17,295 --> 00:22:19,089 And then the 1970s came along. 354 00:22:19,172 --> 00:22:22,217 The attacks slashed at North Vietnam with renewed fury. 355 00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:25,678 People have got to know whether or not their president's a crook. 356 00:22:25,762 --> 00:22:27,430 The recession is indeed upon us. 357 00:22:27,514 --> 00:22:30,141 Gas lines of 10 and 12 blocks were everywhere. 358 00:22:30,225 --> 00:22:33,144 The current slide in the economy could get worse. 359 00:22:33,228 --> 00:22:38,108 You had unemployment rising, gas prices going up, skyrocketing. 360 00:22:38,191 --> 00:22:41,611 You had inflation really start to gain steam, 361 00:22:41,694 --> 00:22:43,738 which, all of a sudden, led to a recession. 362 00:22:43,822 --> 00:22:49,744 Wall Street underwent some of the most dramatic changes in its history. 363 00:22:50,328 --> 00:22:52,747 It was like a slow-motion stock market crash. 364 00:22:53,540 --> 00:22:56,209 As Bernie moved into the 1970s, 365 00:22:56,292 --> 00:23:00,130 he decided it was time to move to an office building at 110 Wall Street, 366 00:23:00,213 --> 00:23:03,842 and his legitimate trading business became more and more conservative. 367 00:23:04,342 --> 00:23:07,679 Bernie Madoff became what's called a market maker. 368 00:23:07,762 --> 00:23:09,389 When you buy a stock, 369 00:23:09,472 --> 00:23:11,683 buying 100 shares from somebody else over there 370 00:23:11,766 --> 00:23:14,519 who's selling 100 shares, that's not really what's happening. 371 00:23:14,602 --> 00:23:15,979 What's really happening is, 372 00:23:16,062 --> 00:23:19,858 there's a middleman who's actually already bought those 100 shares. 373 00:23:19,941 --> 00:23:23,153 What you're actually doing is buying from the middleman, 374 00:23:23,236 --> 00:23:25,738 and that's who Bernie Madoff was, he was a wholesaler. 375 00:23:25,822 --> 00:23:29,325 He would effectively warehouse stock, 376 00:23:29,868 --> 00:23:33,997 and he would turn around and sell them when somebody else wanted to buy them, 377 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,668 and he would make a commission, a couple of cents for every sale. 378 00:23:38,751 --> 00:23:40,545 That's what a market maker is. 379 00:23:41,087 --> 00:23:45,383 Their obligation is to buy and sell shares in good times or bad. 380 00:23:46,801 --> 00:23:49,679 Bernie's business on the market-making side grows so quickly 381 00:23:49,762 --> 00:23:51,723 that he hires his brother Peter. 382 00:23:52,765 --> 00:23:56,644 They were really visionaries, pioneering computerized trading. 383 00:23:59,105 --> 00:24:00,857 When the computer arrived, 384 00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:04,360 it just radically changed the way Wall Street worked. 385 00:24:04,444 --> 00:24:06,070 It's the beginning of a new age, 386 00:24:06,154 --> 00:24:09,073 launched by the tremendous force of a revolution. 387 00:24:09,157 --> 00:24:13,995 Computers are so profoundly important that it altered the path of civilization. 388 00:24:14,871 --> 00:24:17,207 The biggest players moving into Wall Street, 389 00:24:17,290 --> 00:24:20,168 they didn't want to trade 200 shares. 390 00:24:20,251 --> 00:24:25,048 They wanted to trade 20,000 shares on a moderate day. 391 00:24:25,715 --> 00:24:30,470 In the '70s, buying and selling stocks actually took a really long time. 392 00:24:30,553 --> 00:24:32,680 It took, usually, a few weeks. 393 00:24:33,264 --> 00:24:37,644 Wall Street needs people who can do these trades fast. 394 00:24:37,727 --> 00:24:42,524 That requires computerization, and Bernie rides that wave. 395 00:24:43,483 --> 00:24:47,779 Using computerized trading, he could process a trade in three days. 396 00:24:47,862 --> 00:24:49,239 It was just unheard of. 397 00:24:50,156 --> 00:24:53,034 By being able to speed up his process, 398 00:24:53,117 --> 00:24:56,371 he was able to compete for big institutional business 399 00:24:56,454 --> 00:24:58,206 in his legitimate operation, 400 00:24:58,289 --> 00:25:00,083 and it gave him a huge edge. 401 00:25:00,917 --> 00:25:03,711 Bernie's brilliance was that he consolidated 402 00:25:03,795 --> 00:25:09,217 all the off-the-exchange markets, the pink sheets, sort of small firms, 403 00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:10,843 not reputable type firms, 404 00:25:10,927 --> 00:25:13,388 into what you might call one computer screen, 405 00:25:13,972 --> 00:25:17,141 in what became the NASDAQ and the NASD. 406 00:25:17,225 --> 00:25:19,185 He legitimized that business. 407 00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:24,649 Today, Apple, Google, Microsoft, are all NASDAQ companies. 408 00:25:26,276 --> 00:25:29,821 His legitimate brokerage firm was doing gangbusters, 409 00:25:29,904 --> 00:25:31,698 which made it all the more bizarre 410 00:25:31,781 --> 00:25:36,578 that he was running this very shadowy investment advisory business 411 00:25:36,661 --> 00:25:39,706 that no one knew about, which was also growing. 412 00:25:40,915 --> 00:25:43,459 People were hearing about Bernie and how great he was. 413 00:25:43,543 --> 00:25:45,878 He was going to the Catskills in the summer, 414 00:25:45,962 --> 00:25:48,840 raising money from friends and other family members. 415 00:25:48,923 --> 00:25:50,717 They thought he was going to be a star. 416 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:56,014 He was still getting referrals from his wife's father, Saul Alpern, 417 00:25:56,097 --> 00:25:59,809 and over the years, Saul had hired two accountants, 418 00:25:59,892 --> 00:26:02,186 Frank Avellino and Michael Bienes. 419 00:26:02,270 --> 00:26:09,068 When Saul Alpern retires in the 1970s, they rename the firm Avellino & Bienes, 420 00:26:09,152 --> 00:26:10,194 or A and B. 421 00:26:11,988 --> 00:26:14,198 Michael Bienes and Frank Avellino 422 00:26:14,282 --> 00:26:17,785 are a match made somewhere outside of heaven. 423 00:26:18,703 --> 00:26:20,246 Avellino and Bienes certainly knew 424 00:26:20,330 --> 00:26:24,667 that Bernie Madoff was managing money for Saul's family and friends. 425 00:26:24,751 --> 00:26:30,506 But it was really when Saul retired that Avellino and Bienes see dollar signs. 426 00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:32,759 They're like kids in a candy store. 427 00:26:33,343 --> 00:26:37,180 They began to construct one of Bernie's first feeder funds, 428 00:26:37,263 --> 00:26:40,725 collecting money from all sorts of investors, 429 00:26:40,808 --> 00:26:45,521 corporations, family offices, and trust departments, individuals, 430 00:26:45,605 --> 00:26:47,774 pooling their money into a fund 431 00:26:47,857 --> 00:26:51,903 and then send the money to Bernie's unofficial investment advisory business. 432 00:26:53,446 --> 00:26:55,239 They push it to their clients, 433 00:26:55,323 --> 00:26:58,409 to friends of their clients, to relatives of their clients. 434 00:26:59,577 --> 00:27:02,747 In exchange for raising that money, they take a fee, 435 00:27:02,830 --> 00:27:06,584 and they start bringing in a river of money 436 00:27:06,668 --> 00:27:09,128 to Bernie Madoff to manage. 437 00:27:09,671 --> 00:27:12,507 Avellino and Bienes, they weren't a hedge fund 438 00:27:12,590 --> 00:27:13,591 or a Wall Street fund. 439 00:27:13,675 --> 00:27:16,386 They weren't money managers at all. They were accountants. 440 00:27:16,469 --> 00:27:19,889 And they don't register the investment business, which is illegal. 441 00:27:19,972 --> 00:27:22,183 They took money from their clients, 442 00:27:22,266 --> 00:27:26,270 and they put it with a secret manager whose name couldn't be revealed, 443 00:27:26,354 --> 00:27:29,649 without even telling the clients what was happening with their money, 444 00:27:29,732 --> 00:27:31,943 and that manager was Bernie Madoff. 445 00:27:35,154 --> 00:27:36,572 By the end of the '70s, 446 00:27:36,656 --> 00:27:40,368 Bernie began to experience the American success dream. 447 00:27:40,451 --> 00:27:43,329 Bernie and Ruth have two sons, Andrew and Mark. 448 00:27:43,413 --> 00:27:46,874 He was a family man, he truly loved his family, 449 00:27:46,958 --> 00:27:50,461 and he was able to move his family into a very lovely suburb, 450 00:27:50,545 --> 00:27:52,046 Roslyn, Long Island, 451 00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:55,842 one of the wealthier communities along the coast. 452 00:27:55,925 --> 00:27:57,677 He even splurged as much 453 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,056 as to commute into Manhattan by seaplane instead of the train 454 00:28:02,140 --> 00:28:05,268 or the Long Island traffic like everybody else. 455 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:17,280 We've moved from malaise to hope, confidence, and opportunity. 456 00:28:20,825 --> 00:28:25,747 Government that has high taxes, excessive spending, and over-regulation 457 00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:29,375 had thrown a wrench in the works of our free markets. 458 00:28:29,459 --> 00:28:31,961 Our economic program for the next four years, 459 00:28:32,044 --> 00:28:34,422 we're going to turn the bull loose. 460 00:28:38,009 --> 00:28:40,303 As the '80s unfolded, 461 00:28:40,386 --> 00:28:44,557 the bull market that began in America very rapidly became a global phenomenon. 462 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,517 It was the dawn of globalization. 463 00:28:46,601 --> 00:28:48,352 Everyone wanted to be in the stock market, 464 00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:52,857 and Bernie's legitimate trading business started making major money. 465 00:28:56,986 --> 00:28:58,905 Wall Street in the '80s was crazy. 466 00:29:00,239 --> 00:29:04,327 There was a lot of excitement, and people were making money. 467 00:29:04,410 --> 00:29:07,789 I heard there was a lot of cocaine, a lot of drinking, 468 00:29:07,872 --> 00:29:11,042 and a lot of wining and dining. 469 00:29:11,125 --> 00:29:12,710 Every firm was hiring. 470 00:29:13,753 --> 00:29:17,548 I started working for Bernie Madoff in July of '85. 471 00:29:17,632 --> 00:29:20,510 Bernie had an incredible mystique about him. 472 00:29:20,593 --> 00:29:22,553 He was revered on Wall Street, 473 00:29:22,637 --> 00:29:24,931 he was on the Board of Governors of NASDAQ. 474 00:29:25,014 --> 00:29:28,142 He was always jetting off to London and having meetings. 475 00:29:28,226 --> 00:29:30,061 Bernie would walk into the trading room 476 00:29:30,144 --> 00:29:32,522 and he would buy things, and the market would go up. 477 00:29:32,605 --> 00:29:34,690 He'd sell things, and the market would go down, 478 00:29:34,774 --> 00:29:39,195 and he developed a reputation as being almost all-knowing. 479 00:29:39,821 --> 00:29:43,449 Bernie's legitimate firm was doing a spectacular business. 480 00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:48,955 He and Ruth move into a lovely penthouse apartment in Manhattan. 481 00:29:49,038 --> 00:29:51,249 He bought a summer place in Montauk. 482 00:29:51,332 --> 00:29:52,583 He joined a country club. 483 00:29:52,667 --> 00:29:53,960 He bought a boat. 484 00:29:54,627 --> 00:29:57,380 Now Bernie could certainly look his father-in-law in the eye 485 00:29:57,463 --> 00:29:59,674 and say, "See, I told you I'd be a success." 486 00:30:00,383 --> 00:30:03,386 You know, I started my business with literally $500. 487 00:30:03,469 --> 00:30:04,804 I had gone from nothing. 488 00:30:04,887 --> 00:30:06,973 I was this little kid from Queens. 489 00:30:07,056 --> 00:30:08,850 Didn't go to Harvard and so on. 490 00:30:08,933 --> 00:30:12,979 All of a sudden, you know, by '87, I was very successful. 491 00:30:13,062 --> 00:30:14,105 I was a rich guy. 492 00:30:17,525 --> 00:30:19,861 We were making a lot of money. 493 00:30:19,944 --> 00:30:22,363 We were growing, we were hiring more traders. 494 00:30:22,446 --> 00:30:25,658 Bernie wanted a more prestigious building, 495 00:30:25,741 --> 00:30:28,995 so we move sometime in the summer of 1987 496 00:30:29,078 --> 00:30:32,290 to 885 3rd Avenue, to the Lipstick Building. 497 00:30:33,082 --> 00:30:35,042 It's a very unusual building. 498 00:30:35,126 --> 00:30:38,045 It kind of looked like a lipstick container. 499 00:30:39,213 --> 00:30:43,676 Bernie's move uptown to this iconic skyscraper 500 00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:46,554 would impress investors. It would impress employees. 501 00:30:46,637 --> 00:30:48,139 It would even impress regulators. 502 00:30:48,222 --> 00:30:54,020 So this was part of the classy new image that Bernie was building for himself. 503 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,652 The offices were absolutely stunning when we first moved in. 504 00:31:01,736 --> 00:31:04,572 Sophisticated, high-tech looking. 505 00:31:04,655 --> 00:31:08,242 It was all windows. It was all bright lights. 506 00:31:09,368 --> 00:31:14,040 When I started working for Bernie Madoff in 1987, 507 00:31:14,123 --> 00:31:16,834 it absolutely was a family atmosphere, 508 00:31:16,918 --> 00:31:20,254 because they were very family-oriented people. 509 00:31:21,923 --> 00:31:25,051 It was a nice atmosphere, it was very comfortable. 510 00:31:25,134 --> 00:31:26,552 It was very safe. 511 00:31:26,636 --> 00:31:29,680 Almost everybody that worked there were relatives, 512 00:31:29,764 --> 00:31:31,557 they were friends of relatives. 513 00:31:32,141 --> 00:31:35,353 Bernie's kids, Mark and Andy, were working there. 514 00:31:36,145 --> 00:31:39,023 Mark and Andy were all-American. 515 00:31:39,106 --> 00:31:41,817 Anybody would have been proud to have them as children. 516 00:31:42,860 --> 00:31:46,822 I liked his brother, Peter, he was the compliance officer. 517 00:31:47,698 --> 00:31:50,493 Ruth had an office at the firm. 518 00:31:50,993 --> 00:31:52,578 She was a warm person. 519 00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:55,206 She was a really great mother. 520 00:31:55,289 --> 00:31:58,584 I could see Bernie and Ruth loved their children very much. 521 00:31:59,085 --> 00:32:03,881 She adored Bernie, and I think that she was the person he confided in. 522 00:32:04,757 --> 00:32:08,219 Bernie had said once to me, "Ruth is a great partner." 523 00:32:09,053 --> 00:32:11,222 And Bernie was very generous. 524 00:32:11,722 --> 00:32:13,849 He gave a lot of money to charity. 525 00:32:13,933 --> 00:32:17,019 He paid for the airfare for the honeymoons 526 00:32:17,103 --> 00:32:20,272 for all of their employees when they got married. 527 00:32:20,356 --> 00:32:22,984 He was on the board of Yeshiva. 528 00:32:23,067 --> 00:32:25,069 He worked with the Special Olympics. 529 00:32:25,152 --> 00:32:27,655 There was a time he paid for a woman's heart surgery. 530 00:32:28,656 --> 00:32:32,535 The Madoffs took everyone to Montauk for a weekend in the summer 531 00:32:32,618 --> 00:32:35,413 with all their family and put them up in hotels. 532 00:32:35,496 --> 00:32:37,206 We'd play volleyball on the beach. 533 00:32:37,289 --> 00:32:40,084 We'd have a real party, a lot of drinking. 534 00:32:40,167 --> 00:32:42,837 We'd dance, and it was fun. 535 00:32:44,171 --> 00:32:46,132 But there was another side of Bernie. 536 00:32:48,718 --> 00:32:53,347 He was meticulous about his appearance, about his surrounding. 537 00:32:54,140 --> 00:32:55,891 Everything had to be pristine. 538 00:32:55,975 --> 00:32:58,102 If he looked down the trading desk 539 00:32:58,185 --> 00:33:01,480 and he saw a computer monitor that was a little askew, 540 00:33:01,564 --> 00:33:04,859 he'd have to go and fix it and make it in line. 541 00:33:04,942 --> 00:33:07,445 Even if you're sitting at the desk, using it, 542 00:33:07,528 --> 00:33:09,530 he would fix it while he walked by. 543 00:33:09,613 --> 00:33:13,701 You couldn't have silver picture frames or anything that wasn't black and gray. 544 00:33:13,784 --> 00:33:16,078 You couldn't have plants on your desk. 545 00:33:16,162 --> 00:33:18,247 Everything had to be the same. 546 00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:22,334 As time went on, 547 00:33:23,127 --> 00:33:25,171 he became more intense. 548 00:33:27,006 --> 00:33:30,009 There were definitely days where you could feel the tension, 549 00:33:30,634 --> 00:33:32,887 and you would just want to stay away from him. 550 00:33:34,430 --> 00:33:37,141 You never knew whether he was going to bite your head off. 551 00:33:37,224 --> 00:33:38,893 Son of a bitch. Will you shut up?! 552 00:33:38,976 --> 00:33:43,439 I remember one time Bernie was just screaming at his brother, Peter. 553 00:33:44,023 --> 00:33:45,232 Get the fuck out of my office! 554 00:33:45,316 --> 00:33:46,817 I got such a stomachache. 555 00:33:46,901 --> 00:33:49,403 I-I just got up and said, "Please stop." 556 00:33:50,196 --> 00:33:52,615 And Peter would back off, because Bernie was a bully. 557 00:33:52,698 --> 00:33:54,241 That was another side of him. 558 00:33:55,159 --> 00:33:58,579 I think Peter was probably a little bit afraid of Bernie, 559 00:33:59,663 --> 00:34:01,957 the way everybody was a little afraid of Bernie. 560 00:34:02,041 --> 00:34:03,918 He wanted to control you, 561 00:34:04,001 --> 00:34:06,545 and it's because he disapproved of you 562 00:34:07,171 --> 00:34:08,798 that he could control you. 563 00:34:09,715 --> 00:34:12,426 Bernie could flip the switch in a second. 564 00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:17,348 I saw times when he could be so kind and so caring, 565 00:34:17,431 --> 00:34:19,892 and times where he could be so brutal. 566 00:34:19,975 --> 00:34:24,146 -What the hell do you think you're doing? -Stop you dead in your tracks. 567 00:34:25,022 --> 00:34:27,191 What the hell do you think you're doing?! 568 00:34:27,733 --> 00:34:30,152 I think there were a lot of people in Bernie. 569 00:34:30,236 --> 00:34:31,737 He was a lot of things. 570 00:34:32,571 --> 00:34:34,990 I figured he was under a lot of pressure. 571 00:34:36,617 --> 00:34:39,995 This morning, the stock market has been in a free fall. 572 00:34:42,206 --> 00:34:44,416 Close this deal, choose…! 573 00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:47,503 In trading rooms on Wall Street, there was panic. 574 00:34:47,586 --> 00:34:51,215 Sell orders flooded in from big institutional investors, 575 00:34:51,298 --> 00:34:54,301 from private investors, from mutual funds, 576 00:34:54,385 --> 00:34:56,846 worried about inflation, rising interest rates, 577 00:34:56,929 --> 00:35:01,267 a declining dollar, and huge budget and trade deficits. 578 00:35:02,309 --> 00:35:05,813 Monday, October 19, 1987, 579 00:35:05,896 --> 00:35:08,691 was one of the scariest days I've ever experienced in my life. 580 00:35:09,275 --> 00:35:12,987 The moment I got to work, and the market opened at 9:30, 581 00:35:13,070 --> 00:35:15,614 until the moment it closed, was bedlam. 582 00:35:16,323 --> 00:35:18,242 Within two hours of the opening bell, 583 00:35:18,325 --> 00:35:21,412 the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 200 points. 584 00:35:21,495 --> 00:35:24,248 The activity is incredible. 585 00:35:24,331 --> 00:35:28,711 It's a frenzy, and I would say some fear and panic going on. 586 00:35:29,545 --> 00:35:32,923 During the crash, every firm on Wall Street was trying to dump stock. 587 00:35:33,007 --> 00:35:38,345 We had so many phones ringing, we were inundated with orders. 588 00:35:38,429 --> 00:35:40,556 People are screaming, we're writing tickets. 589 00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:43,267 It just felt like a war zone. 590 00:35:45,311 --> 00:35:48,522 I remember my uncle called me, and I picked up the phone, and he says, 591 00:35:48,606 --> 00:35:49,982 "Three guys walk into a bar…" 592 00:35:50,065 --> 00:35:53,068 I'm like, "Sam, I can't talk to you now, goodbye," and I hung up. 593 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,989 We had to maintain an orderly market. 594 00:35:57,072 --> 00:36:00,409 A market maker is someone who was willing to be the buyer 595 00:36:00,492 --> 00:36:02,745 and the seller of last resort. 596 00:36:02,828 --> 00:36:05,456 So we were the only ones buying. 597 00:36:05,539 --> 00:36:07,708 A lot of firms were not picking up their phones, 598 00:36:07,791 --> 00:36:10,002 and I remember very distinctly Bernie yelling, 599 00:36:10,085 --> 00:36:13,547 "Pick up the phone. We're not gonna be the firm that doesn't pick up." 600 00:36:13,631 --> 00:36:17,968 So we're picking up the phone and we're buying a lot of stock. 601 00:36:18,052 --> 00:36:21,138 And all I'm doing is pressing buttons on the computer, down, down, 602 00:36:21,222 --> 00:36:23,349 taking my market down. 603 00:36:23,974 --> 00:36:26,977 It never seemed like it was going to bottom. 604 00:36:27,061 --> 00:36:30,564 Bedlam reigned at New York Stock Exchange as frantic traders dealt 605 00:36:30,648 --> 00:36:33,525 with more than half a billion sell orders flooding Wall Street. 606 00:36:33,609 --> 00:36:35,986 No one has one particular reason. 607 00:36:36,070 --> 00:36:39,823 There's a kind of dark, gloomy psychology at work here. 608 00:36:39,907 --> 00:36:41,617 Definitely panic selling. 609 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,286 Panic, complete panic. Everyone's going crazy. 610 00:36:44,370 --> 00:36:47,957 For brokers and traders, it was an unmitigated disaster. 611 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,416 Bloodbath. 612 00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:51,001 The sudden collapse 613 00:36:51,085 --> 00:36:54,088 brought back memories of a fateful October day 58 years ago, 614 00:36:54,171 --> 00:36:58,717 the crash of 1929 that heralded the beginning of the Great Depression. 615 00:36:59,802 --> 00:37:02,346 It was scary and it was overwhelming. 616 00:37:02,429 --> 00:37:03,889 It was devastating. 617 00:37:04,515 --> 00:37:07,309 But Bernie never seemed to sweat anything. 618 00:37:07,393 --> 00:37:10,187 He was actually pretty cool and calm about it. 619 00:37:10,271 --> 00:37:13,274 It was one of those things that really helped us to revere him, 620 00:37:13,357 --> 00:37:14,775 because this was his money. 621 00:37:14,858 --> 00:37:18,779 His name is the one on the door, Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities, 622 00:37:18,862 --> 00:37:22,658 and we were one of the few firms that honored our commitments. 623 00:37:22,741 --> 00:37:23,826 We stayed open. 624 00:37:24,326 --> 00:37:26,120 Bernie Madoff kept buying, 625 00:37:26,203 --> 00:37:29,623 even as all of the other market makers on Wall Street, 626 00:37:29,707 --> 00:37:32,876 who had an obligation to buy the stocks, 627 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,963 even when they were falling, even if they're going to lose money, 628 00:37:36,046 --> 00:37:38,674 that is the obligation of a market maker. 629 00:37:38,757 --> 00:37:40,301 They weren't picking up the phone. 630 00:37:40,384 --> 00:37:43,846 You couldn't get them on the line. You couldn't make that transaction. 631 00:37:43,929 --> 00:37:45,472 But you could with Bernie Madoff. 632 00:37:46,432 --> 00:37:49,685 The mood on Wall Street is one of shock and disbelief. 633 00:37:49,768 --> 00:37:53,564 For five years, the great Bull Market seemed unstoppable. 634 00:37:53,647 --> 00:37:55,482 Confidence had been so high. 635 00:37:56,066 --> 00:37:59,695 Then came the month of October, and then came Black Monday. 636 00:38:01,030 --> 00:38:02,364 It's not clear 637 00:38:02,448 --> 00:38:06,493 how much money Bernie's legitimate business lost in the '87 crash, 638 00:38:06,994 --> 00:38:09,621 but the fact that Bernie was at the cutting edge 639 00:38:09,705 --> 00:38:13,709 of both communications technology and trading technology allowed him 640 00:38:13,792 --> 00:38:19,923 to keep the Madoff firm open, functioning, and serving customers. 641 00:38:20,007 --> 00:38:26,055 This won him recognition from the SEC, from the New York Stock Exchange. 642 00:38:26,138 --> 00:38:29,141 He testified in Congressional hearings, 643 00:38:29,224 --> 00:38:31,310 he helped rewrite the rule book 644 00:38:31,393 --> 00:38:36,106 to keep the market functioning through a crisis like Black Monday. 645 00:38:36,607 --> 00:38:38,817 People started talking about Bernie Madoff 646 00:38:38,901 --> 00:38:43,405 as a man of his word, this trustworthy, loyal guy, 647 00:38:43,489 --> 00:38:45,657 and it crystallized his reputation. 648 00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:48,660 He began serving on industry boards. 649 00:38:48,744 --> 00:38:51,955 He began being invited to regulatory roundtables, 650 00:38:52,039 --> 00:38:57,753 and he was elected to three terms as the chairman of the board of NASDAQ. 651 00:38:57,836 --> 00:39:03,050 And in the early '90s he was a trusted, respected Wall Street statesman. 652 00:39:04,176 --> 00:39:08,013 Bernie fed on being "the guy." 653 00:39:08,097 --> 00:39:11,600 He liked that pedestal that people put him on, 654 00:39:12,184 --> 00:39:14,520 and I think as he got more and more of it, 655 00:39:14,603 --> 00:39:17,356 he got more in love with that reverence. 656 00:39:19,483 --> 00:39:21,902 Read my lips, 657 00:39:21,985 --> 00:39:24,321 no new taxes. 658 00:39:24,905 --> 00:39:27,074 Booster, ignition and liftoff. 659 00:39:27,616 --> 00:39:29,410 People are working harder than ever, 660 00:39:29,493 --> 00:39:33,038 spending less time with their children, working nights and weekends. 661 00:39:33,122 --> 00:39:35,124 A look at business news this morning. 662 00:39:35,207 --> 00:39:36,834 A rally in technology stocks 663 00:39:36,917 --> 00:39:40,003 helped push the blue chips deeper into record territory. 664 00:39:40,087 --> 00:39:42,506 I started at Bernie Madoff's firm. 665 00:39:42,589 --> 00:39:44,967 I believe it was 1991. 666 00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:48,303 Bernie Madoff had a very excellent reputation. 667 00:39:48,387 --> 00:39:51,765 "Bernie's a great guy. He's very involved in the community." 668 00:39:51,849 --> 00:39:55,060 "He's generous," you know, "You'd do well working for him." 669 00:39:55,144 --> 00:39:57,896 It was a very bullish time in the market. 670 00:39:57,980 --> 00:40:00,774 This is when the technology age started exploding. 671 00:40:00,858 --> 00:40:02,401 The Internet came into being. 672 00:40:02,484 --> 00:40:04,736 You had more people getting involved in the stock market. 673 00:40:04,820 --> 00:40:06,363 Dow Jones has a website. 674 00:40:06,447 --> 00:40:10,659 Real-time numbers, just as traders see them on Wall Street. 675 00:40:11,577 --> 00:40:14,621 So we got more business, we had more customer flow. 676 00:40:14,705 --> 00:40:17,499 It was a great time to be in stocks 677 00:40:17,583 --> 00:40:20,544 because they became a lot more efficient through technology, 678 00:40:20,627 --> 00:40:22,045 and profits started soaring. 679 00:40:23,130 --> 00:40:24,673 Madoff was doing somewhere 680 00:40:24,756 --> 00:40:28,385 between 5 and 7% of the total volume in the New York Stock Exchange, 681 00:40:28,469 --> 00:40:30,929 which is huge for a relatively small company. 682 00:40:31,013 --> 00:40:34,975 I don't envision it changing anytime soon unless the market really cools down. 683 00:40:36,226 --> 00:40:39,938 Bernie's growing a legitimate market-making business, 684 00:40:40,022 --> 00:40:43,025 and at the same time, he's also very quietly 685 00:40:43,108 --> 00:40:46,278 been growing his secret investment advisory business, 686 00:40:46,361 --> 00:40:47,863 which he keeps under the table, 687 00:40:47,946 --> 00:40:50,532 which he keeps separate from the market-making business. 688 00:40:50,616 --> 00:40:53,952 Initially, returns for investors were 11%, 689 00:40:54,036 --> 00:40:56,914 but he was actually giving as high as 15 to 19%. 690 00:40:56,997 --> 00:41:00,584 He is always consistently profitable. 691 00:41:01,210 --> 00:41:05,923 What had begun in the mid-'60s as this little, kind of, 692 00:41:06,006 --> 00:41:08,133 bridge club investment advisory business 693 00:41:08,217 --> 00:41:11,011 has grown and grown and grown. 694 00:41:11,803 --> 00:41:15,807 And Avellino and Bienes continued funneling a boatload of money 695 00:41:15,891 --> 00:41:17,684 into Bernie Madoff's hands. 696 00:41:18,310 --> 00:41:21,480 Avellino and Bienes operate their feeder fund 697 00:41:21,563 --> 00:41:23,857 very under the radar, very quiet, 698 00:41:23,941 --> 00:41:26,318 never putting anything in writing, 699 00:41:26,401 --> 00:41:29,446 until one of their subcontractors, 700 00:41:29,530 --> 00:41:34,868 who was setting up pooled investments and attracting friends and family to it, 701 00:41:34,952 --> 00:41:38,455 breaks the first commandment of Avellino and Bienes 702 00:41:38,539 --> 00:41:40,040 and puts something in writing. 703 00:41:43,502 --> 00:41:47,381 In 1992, a brochure was brought to the attention 704 00:41:47,464 --> 00:41:49,508 of the Securities and Exchange Commission. 705 00:41:49,591 --> 00:41:53,971 The SEC is a regulatory agency whose main mission is to protect investors. 706 00:41:54,054 --> 00:41:56,390 And basically on the brochure it said, 707 00:41:56,473 --> 00:41:59,560 "We offer 100% safe investments." 708 00:41:59,643 --> 00:42:03,188 "We haven't had a losing transaction in over 20 years, 709 00:42:03,272 --> 00:42:06,900 and they're basically riskless trading." 710 00:42:06,984 --> 00:42:10,237 The SEC looks at the brochure and immediately realizes 711 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:11,863 there are significant red flags. 712 00:42:11,947 --> 00:42:16,285 You cannot have 100% safe trading investment. 713 00:42:16,368 --> 00:42:18,078 No such thing as riskless trading. 714 00:42:18,954 --> 00:42:22,624 And their investigation led to these two guys, 715 00:42:22,708 --> 00:42:24,585 Frank Avellino and Michael Bienes. 716 00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:30,674 So Avellino and Bienes came voluntarily to the SEC with their lawyer. 717 00:42:32,259 --> 00:42:34,177 They wanted to take the testimony 718 00:42:34,261 --> 00:42:36,513 of Avellino and Bienes together. 719 00:42:37,514 --> 00:42:39,224 And I'm sitting in the middle, 720 00:42:40,225 --> 00:42:45,522 and I think Bienes was to my left, Avellino was to my right. 721 00:42:45,606 --> 00:42:48,859 And they get to the point where they say to them, 722 00:42:48,942 --> 00:42:51,111 "How much money did you raise for investment?" 723 00:42:51,194 --> 00:42:55,282 I think the SEC was expecting something like five or 10 million or something, 724 00:42:55,907 --> 00:42:57,576 and they look at each other, 725 00:42:58,619 --> 00:43:02,497 and one of them says, "I think it's about 726 00:43:02,581 --> 00:43:04,875 $444 million." 727 00:43:06,043 --> 00:43:09,963 And I thought the SEC staff were going to fall out of their chairs. 728 00:43:10,464 --> 00:43:15,427 $444 million from small investors, that's a lot of money. 729 00:43:15,927 --> 00:43:18,055 This is the early '90s. That's a lot of money. 730 00:43:18,972 --> 00:43:20,515 They stopped the testimony. 731 00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:23,560 They ran up front to talk to the head of the office of the SEC, 732 00:43:23,644 --> 00:43:25,729 New York office, and… 733 00:43:26,229 --> 00:43:27,898 "My God! What's going on here?" 734 00:43:27,981 --> 00:43:29,733 They were apoplectic. 735 00:43:29,816 --> 00:43:33,028 The head of the office I thought was going to have a coronary. 736 00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:38,784 The SEC did suspect that there was fraud being perpetrated, 737 00:43:38,867 --> 00:43:43,497 but they suspected Avellino and Bienes were the ones perpetrating the scheme. 738 00:43:44,498 --> 00:43:48,210 And so then Frank Avellino and Michael Bienes explained that 739 00:43:48,293 --> 00:43:52,881 all the trading decisions had been done essentially by Bernie Madoff. 740 00:43:52,964 --> 00:43:56,259 They were basically saying, "Don't look at us, look at Bernie Madoff." 741 00:43:57,302 --> 00:44:00,347 So the SEC seeks documents from Bernie Madoff. 742 00:44:02,474 --> 00:44:04,476 The SEC comes sniffing around, 743 00:44:05,018 --> 00:44:07,437 and Madoff gets scared because 744 00:44:07,938 --> 00:44:09,314 it was all a fraud. 745 00:44:13,193 --> 00:44:17,614 Madoff never did any investing for his investment advisory business. 746 00:44:18,532 --> 00:44:20,826 It involved simply taking people's money 747 00:44:20,909 --> 00:44:23,704 and telling them he was going to invest it, and he never did. 748 00:44:23,787 --> 00:44:25,872 They were fictitious trades. 749 00:44:25,956 --> 00:44:26,998 It was a Ponzi. 750 00:44:27,541 --> 00:44:31,420 Here, in 1919, is Charles Ponzi. 751 00:44:32,087 --> 00:44:37,134 Ponzi's proved his boasts he can make 50% profit on investments in 90 days, 752 00:44:37,217 --> 00:44:39,469 and wise men follow him. 753 00:44:39,553 --> 00:44:42,139 When government proves Ponzi a swindler… 754 00:44:44,224 --> 00:44:46,184 A classic definition of a Ponzi 755 00:44:46,268 --> 00:44:48,478 is taking money from Peter and giving it to Paul. 756 00:44:49,104 --> 00:44:50,439 It's telling Peter, 757 00:44:50,522 --> 00:44:53,316 "I'm gonna take your money, I'm gonna do something, invest it, 758 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:54,818 and I'm going to give you a return," 759 00:44:55,861 --> 00:44:58,363 but I take your money and I just give it to Paul. 760 00:44:58,905 --> 00:45:01,533 And this process just goes on and on and on, 761 00:45:01,616 --> 00:45:06,329 because I continually need new investors to pay back old investors, 762 00:45:06,413 --> 00:45:09,583 and there's no investing, no business whatsoever going on. 763 00:45:12,377 --> 00:45:17,382 So when the SEC came in, in 1992, to investigate Avellino and Bienes, 764 00:45:17,883 --> 00:45:20,844 Madoff has to prove to them that the trades were real. 765 00:45:22,137 --> 00:45:25,640 So, he turns to Frank Dipascali to create fake trading documents 766 00:45:25,724 --> 00:45:29,060 using historical information to give to the SEC. 767 00:45:30,353 --> 00:45:33,857 Frank Dipascali was Madoff's right-hand man. 768 00:45:33,940 --> 00:45:35,650 He'd been with him for many years. 769 00:45:35,734 --> 00:45:37,569 He handled the feeder funds, 770 00:45:37,652 --> 00:45:39,154 and handled a lot of money. 771 00:45:39,738 --> 00:45:42,365 Frank was a real guy's guy, 772 00:45:42,449 --> 00:45:44,284 and he was incredibly bright. 773 00:45:44,367 --> 00:45:48,288 You could cast Frank Dipascali in a mob movie quite easily. 774 00:45:48,371 --> 00:45:50,999 He was a working-class guy, 775 00:45:51,082 --> 00:45:53,126 and he was incredibly loyal. 776 00:45:54,669 --> 00:45:59,382 Dipascali rises to the occasion in spectacular fashion. 777 00:45:59,466 --> 00:46:02,511 He starts creating the fake paper trail. 778 00:46:03,136 --> 00:46:07,432 This has to be legitimate-looking account records, trade logs, 779 00:46:07,516 --> 00:46:09,059 account statements, 780 00:46:09,142 --> 00:46:12,354 and this can't just be paper that'll fool Aunt Myrtle, 781 00:46:12,437 --> 00:46:15,357 this has to be paper that will fool the SEC. 782 00:46:16,441 --> 00:46:18,652 When the SEC came calling, 783 00:46:18,735 --> 00:46:21,029 Bernie Madoff showed them the fake documents. 784 00:46:21,112 --> 00:46:22,823 They believed that they were real. 785 00:46:22,906 --> 00:46:26,159 I don't know how carefully they scrutinized those documents. 786 00:46:26,243 --> 00:46:28,411 I think a lot of it goes into the mindset. 787 00:46:28,495 --> 00:46:30,622 I mean, what are the chances that Bernie Madoff, 788 00:46:30,705 --> 00:46:34,251 or any of these guys, to such a degree, is just faking the whole thing? 789 00:46:34,835 --> 00:46:40,090 And in 1992, the SEC closed the case without any action whatsoever, 790 00:46:40,173 --> 00:46:42,592 or any real investigation of Bernie Madoff. 791 00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,014 But what they did was, instead, 792 00:46:48,098 --> 00:46:52,269 they forced Avellino and Bienes to give up their business, 793 00:46:52,352 --> 00:46:55,689 because they were running, essentially, an unregistered investment firm. 794 00:46:56,606 --> 00:47:00,485 The SEC made the decision that, "This is structured illegally." 795 00:47:00,569 --> 00:47:03,989 "You must take all the money out of Bernie's shop 796 00:47:04,072 --> 00:47:06,032 and return it to all of those individuals." 797 00:47:08,243 --> 00:47:11,538 That's $440 million, 798 00:47:11,621 --> 00:47:15,500 and Bernie doesn't have it because it's all a fraud. 799 00:47:16,126 --> 00:47:18,003 So he turns, at that point, 800 00:47:18,086 --> 00:47:22,215 to three of his biggest, longest-standing investors. 801 00:47:23,008 --> 00:47:26,136 Jeffry Picower, Carl Shapiro, and Norman Levy 802 00:47:26,219 --> 00:47:32,475 were foundational individual investors in Bernie's investment advisory business. 803 00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:36,104 Over the years, he made them very, very happy with his results. 804 00:47:36,688 --> 00:47:41,151 So now Bernie persuades them to help him out. 805 00:47:41,651 --> 00:47:43,570 Whether they knew what he was doing, 806 00:47:43,653 --> 00:47:46,948 or whether they were truly innocent of his intentions, 807 00:47:47,032 --> 00:47:48,533 they came up with the money, 808 00:47:49,075 --> 00:47:51,870 and so Bernie was able to write checks 809 00:47:51,953 --> 00:47:55,832 for all of Avellino and Bienes' customers. 810 00:47:57,918 --> 00:47:59,377 And guess what happened? 811 00:48:00,462 --> 00:48:02,547 None of his customers wanted their money back. 812 00:48:02,631 --> 00:48:04,132 They loved what Bernie was doing. 813 00:48:05,383 --> 00:48:08,553 When the SEC closed down Avellino and Bienes, 814 00:48:09,054 --> 00:48:12,891 many of their clients went directly to Madoff for investment. 815 00:48:12,974 --> 00:48:14,768 All of a sudden, Bernie said to me, 816 00:48:14,851 --> 00:48:15,936 "We're gonna be very busy." 817 00:48:16,019 --> 00:48:18,939 He said, "Something happened, we'll be getting in a lot of calls, 818 00:48:19,022 --> 00:48:20,607 and people are gonna be investing." 819 00:48:21,191 --> 00:48:24,110 A lot of the people were senior citizens, 820 00:48:24,819 --> 00:48:26,905 a lot of them from Florida. 821 00:48:27,447 --> 00:48:29,074 These widows, they'd be like, 822 00:48:29,574 --> 00:48:30,867 "I was told to call." 823 00:48:30,951 --> 00:48:35,080 "I was told to call, and I have $15,000 that I want to invest." 824 00:48:35,163 --> 00:48:38,041 This went on for days and days and days. 825 00:48:38,750 --> 00:48:41,670 When we closed the Avellino and Bienes accounts, 826 00:48:41,753 --> 00:48:45,048 I started getting, you know, a lot of pressure from these people 827 00:48:45,131 --> 00:48:48,510 who were relying upon that money to live on. 828 00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:51,304 The SEC had told me at the time, 829 00:48:51,388 --> 00:48:54,766 "Look, you want to still do business with these people, that's fine." 830 00:48:54,849 --> 00:48:57,394 "There's nothing wrong with you doing business with these people." 831 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,481 Bernie Madoff still did not register as an investment advisor. 832 00:49:01,564 --> 00:49:03,316 The SEC missed it, and, 833 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,612 unfortunately, they missed one of the biggest frauds in history. 834 00:49:09,406 --> 00:49:12,450 I had worked very hard running a natural foods business. 835 00:49:12,534 --> 00:49:15,370 After 20 years, I decided to sell it and retire. 836 00:49:15,453 --> 00:49:16,955 And I sold it for a million dollars. 837 00:49:17,038 --> 00:49:22,293 So I ended up investing maybe $100,000 with Avellino and Bienes, 838 00:49:22,377 --> 00:49:24,587 and when the SEC busted them, 839 00:49:25,422 --> 00:49:29,634 that's when I first learned that Avellino and Bienes invested in Madoff. 840 00:49:30,301 --> 00:49:33,263 And when the SEC looked into Madoff, 841 00:49:33,346 --> 00:49:34,889 they found no evidence of fraud, 842 00:49:34,973 --> 00:49:37,892 so I thought there's an opportunity to invest directly in Madoff. 843 00:49:39,269 --> 00:49:42,063 He promised steady returns, 844 00:49:42,147 --> 00:49:44,065 averaging 9% a year. 845 00:49:44,149 --> 00:49:45,859 It was so attractive. 846 00:49:45,942 --> 00:49:48,737 It wasn't promising the moon, it was just steady. 847 00:49:49,946 --> 00:49:51,448 I did due diligence. 848 00:49:51,531 --> 00:49:56,077 I would follow stories saying he was leading the pack in electronic trading. 849 00:49:56,161 --> 00:49:59,372 He was someone who was a mover and shaker. 850 00:50:00,957 --> 00:50:05,420 The fact that the SEC found no evidence of wrongdoing was, to me, 851 00:50:05,503 --> 00:50:08,006 putting a stamp of approval on Madoff, 852 00:50:08,089 --> 00:50:12,927 so I sent a wire for $900,000 to Madoff. 853 00:50:16,556 --> 00:50:20,185 All of a sudden, it's no longer Avellino and Bienes 854 00:50:20,268 --> 00:50:22,437 pooling the money and handing it to Bernie. 855 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,981 It's thousands of people handing money 856 00:50:25,065 --> 00:50:28,443 to Bernie's unregistered investment advisory business. 857 00:50:28,526 --> 00:50:31,404 His name got around largely by word of mouth. 858 00:50:32,030 --> 00:50:34,491 You get an introduction at the country club, 859 00:50:34,574 --> 00:50:37,077 you get an introduction on this philanthropy board. 860 00:50:37,660 --> 00:50:41,539 He's becoming better known in the world of elite money managers. 861 00:50:41,623 --> 00:50:43,750 And they're all saying the same thing. 862 00:50:43,833 --> 00:50:45,627 "You gotta put your money with Bernie." 863 00:50:45,710 --> 00:50:48,004 "We don't know how he's doing it, but it's magic." 864 00:50:49,380 --> 00:50:51,966 Madoff's unregistered investment business 865 00:50:52,050 --> 00:50:57,263 attracts endowments from very well-known Jewish universities, 866 00:50:57,347 --> 00:51:00,558 and philanthropists like Elie Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor, 867 00:51:00,642 --> 00:51:02,811 and of course, some very wealthy families, 868 00:51:02,894 --> 00:51:06,064 among them the Katz family and the Wilpon family, 869 00:51:06,147 --> 00:51:08,483 who are the owners of the New York Mets. 870 00:51:08,983 --> 00:51:11,569 And this is when the fundamental nature 871 00:51:11,653 --> 00:51:13,613 of the Ponzi scheme has to change. 872 00:51:13,696 --> 00:51:15,573 It's a whole different ballgame. 873 00:51:15,657 --> 00:51:17,951 He was able to fool the SEC. 874 00:51:18,034 --> 00:51:21,454 He had just survived an investigation without a scratch, 875 00:51:21,538 --> 00:51:24,916 and so he was emboldened and felt he was untouchable. 876 00:51:24,999 --> 00:51:26,501 The sky was the limit. 877 00:51:26,584 --> 00:51:28,670 The legitimate trading business gives Madoff 878 00:51:28,753 --> 00:51:31,047 the credibility of being successful, 879 00:51:31,131 --> 00:51:35,260 and he's now got about 5,000 clients in the investment advisory business. 880 00:51:35,343 --> 00:51:38,763 So he needs to scale up the Ponzi scheme. 881 00:51:38,847 --> 00:51:40,515 He needs a lot more space 882 00:51:40,598 --> 00:51:43,893 to keep the Ponzi separate from the legitimate side of the business. 883 00:51:44,561 --> 00:51:46,938 So he subleases some space 884 00:51:48,565 --> 00:51:51,651 on the 17th floor of the Lipstick Building. 885 00:51:52,735 --> 00:51:57,157 A little warren of offices where Frank Dipascali is king. 886 00:51:58,074 --> 00:52:04,080 Messy, cluttered, nothing like the elegant, stately offices upstairs. 887 00:52:05,415 --> 00:52:10,253 This is where the Ponzi scheme will grow exponentially in the years ahead 888 00:52:11,462 --> 00:52:13,423 into a fraud on steroids.