1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,200 For me, drawing is definitely a way of saying, "Look at this, 4 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:43,640 "what do you think of this? 5 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,360 "How does that make you feel?" 6 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,360 "Look at where that tree sits on that hill." 7 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,200 Or, "look at the way that creature fits into the landscape." 8 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,640 "Look at how it all works together, all these lines." 9 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,440 The Boy, The Mole, The Fox and The Horse... Has been on the best 10 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,080 seller's list for a frankly ridiculous number of weeks. 11 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,200 It's just stunningly beautiful. 12 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,400 I found it really emotional, I burst into tears 13 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:25,880 when I was reading the book. 14 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,960 This thing sold more than a million copies and readers are feeling 15 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:30,880 a real special connection. 16 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,920 The way I did the book was in a dip pen, so I'd dip it in ink. 17 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,400 And it's a thin nib, the harder you press, the thicker it becomes. 18 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,520 I like the fact that it often it's really imperfect 19 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,480 and it's permanent. 20 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,840 I like the risk, I think, and the strength of it, the darkness 21 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,440 of it, just feels free and expressive. 22 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:01,360 This is the story of a book that's touched readers around the world. 23 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,840 One of my new favourite books, it's called The Boy, The Mole, 24 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,520 The Fox and the Horse by Charlie Mackesy. 25 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,640 How did a first time author create a publishing phenomenon? 26 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:39,040 And how do you turn a book without a story, as such, into a film? 27 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,240 "What do you think success is?" asked the boy. 28 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,640 "To love," said the mole. 29 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,680 Charlie's book started out 30 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,120 as a series of sketches in 2018. 31 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,320 It was a couple of years before the pandemic arrived. 32 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,160 I was doing loads of drawings and putting them on Instagram 33 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:09,960 and people would emotionally respond. 34 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,880 And I got very stuck on the boy and the mole and then obviously 35 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,360 the horse came along and the fox. 36 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,960 I looked forward to posting daily and it was like measuring the pulse 37 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,080 of where people were, and, you know, because sometimes on your own 38 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,200 it's quite hard. 39 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,760 It was all reciprocal because people said they got so much from them 40 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,480 and I got so much from their comments. 41 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,280 So it was a really lovely thing. 42 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,960 And you could feel their energy. 43 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,720 I could feel their desire for it to become something. 44 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,320 You know, social media can be a really wonderful thing 45 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,960 sometimes, a great community. 46 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,240 The things that people were sharing are potentially things 47 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,600 that they weren't necessarily sharing in their own lives, 48 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,240 but he had created this safe space through the works 49 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,160 that he was posting. 50 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,280 The mission was to start positive conversations 51 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:21,480 around mental health, around how we were feeling 52 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,520 and I had a real sense of urgency that it was an important thing 53 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,440 that needed to happen. 54 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,520 Charlie's growing social media following played an important part 55 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,440 in the success of the book. 56 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,440 There was a critical point for me with social media because now it's, 57 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,440 you know, like, 1.5 million people is a lot of people. 58 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,920 And, in a way, when it was like, you know, not so many, you recognise 59 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,560 people and I could chat and say, "I've posted a drawing." 60 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,480 And so everyone felt like they were contributing 61 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,800 and were part of the journey towards the book. 62 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,840 I was always worried that I was over-posting or posting 63 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:08,960 too many of one thing. 64 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:14,360 I will always be really grateful to everyone 65 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,280 on it because they helped me so much... 66 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,880 ..in the development and processing of everything that's in the book. 67 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,440 Everything. 68 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,040 I think the reason why Charlie's work is relatable is because 69 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,440 it contains these universal truths. 70 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,320 Each pairing of words and picture that he creates in the book, 71 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,800 they speak to us quite deeply and they reveal these fundamental 72 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,720 ideas that we have about ourselves. 73 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,640 I think people really related to the book during the pandemic 74 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,400 because we were all looking for something to comfort us. 75 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,720 It was an unprecedented time to live through and the kind of words 76 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,360 and the sentiments in Charlie's book obviously struck a chord with people 77 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,680 and enabled them perhaps to feel better about what was going on. 78 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:20,200 "The boy is full of questions and the mole is greedy for cake. 79 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:25,360 "The fox is mainly silent and wary because he's been hurt by life. 80 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,160 "The horse is the biggest thing they've ever encountered 81 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:30,760 "and also the gentlest." 82 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,440 One of Charlie's friends and collaborators is film-maker 83 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,160 Richard Curtis, who encouraged him to write the book. 84 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,160 How old are you? 85 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,360 59. Nice. 86 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,760 Why is that nice? 87 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,240 You're just a bit younger than me. 88 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,120 Not much. 89 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,240 That is the strange thing about friendship, is it needs 90 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,920 circumstances, doesn't it? 91 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,760 And the characters in your book are thrown by a journey... 92 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,920 Yeah. ..together by chance. 93 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,240 And, as it were, we knew each other for years 94 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,600 and then we ended up in the same village. 95 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,520 And that's, as it were, our journey. 96 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,400 And now we're together forever because we're on that 97 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,320 particular road. 98 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,920 Remind me of the name of the book? 99 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,840 The Boy, The Mole, The Fox And The Horse. 100 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,640 It's just so hard to remember the order. 101 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,680 It is, but if you think of terms of chronology, 102 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,800 it's the first the boy and then the mole appears. 103 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,920 Then the fox and the horse. Everyone gets it wrong, I don't really mind. 104 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,280 Doesn't matter, as long as they're all mentioned. 105 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,200 I don't think they mind. They don't exist. 106 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,760 What do you mean, they mind? 107 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,480 They're all just you. 108 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:40,800 That's true, that's true. 109 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,040 I do think they exist, though, that's the problem. 110 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,960 But your obsessive iteration of those things must have meant 111 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,680 that you were incredibly interested 112 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,480 in those particular relationships? 113 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,440 That that idea of someone who offers you advice or someone who offers 114 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,880 you protection or someone who stays distant? 115 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,680 I mean, why do you think you landed on those four? 116 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,680 Because there were lots of other characters, there's a penguin 117 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,280 and a polar bear, there are other creatures on the edges. 118 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,840 But I always just came back to those four because I think 119 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,120 they're very particular and they're all very 120 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,720 different from each other. 121 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,720 In a funny way, they are both who you are and what you need. 122 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,720 Very innocent, like the boy, but you'd also love life 123 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,640 to be simpler and less painful. Yes. 124 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:37,360 And the mole is like a really good friend that you need. 125 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,800 But then he's also, in some ways, like you, he's full of wisdom 126 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,200 and he's funny and he pops up all the time. 127 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,840 I mean, I think they both are you and are what you need. 128 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,760 Yeah, I think you're right, I think they are what I need... 129 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:52,920 Definitely. 130 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,520 I remember talking to a friend about what courage was, 131 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,760 and he was all for climbing mountains. 132 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,800 And I think that's a type of courage. 133 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,560 But I remember thinking, well, the bravest thing I ever did 134 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:11,960 was when I was really struggling, and I said, "I'm really struggling." 135 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:23,520 Charlie has been a best friend and a brother since I was a teenager. 136 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:28,160 We met on a summer camp originally and instantly found a kindred spirit 137 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,640 in Charlie, somebody who I think, bit more of a misfit together. 138 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,080 I think the last few years has been incredibly 139 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,400 tough on everybody. 140 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,360 There's no-one who hasn't been affected by it, and I think 141 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,240 it's been a time of great loneliness and a lot of anxiety 142 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,840 more than ever before and his book has been a book of its time. 143 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:51,040 Seeing your best friend succeed is a very beautiful thing, you know? 144 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,720 And truth is, it's a, as I say, 25-year overnight success. 145 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,880 You know, he's been inspiring and helping 146 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,520 and being that inspiration to people for decades. 147 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,400 It actually makes me quite emotional to think about it. 148 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,760 People just think he's, you know, he's a writer or they're cartoons. 149 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,640 But actually his... You look at some of 150 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,600 his beautiful, beautiful paintings 151 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,280 over many years and his sculptures, they are stunning and they make 152 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,520 people cry when they see them because they're always rooted 153 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,960 in love and redemption and holding each other and connection. 154 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,400 I do really remember after my dad died, when I was in my mid-20s, 155 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,360 and just really struggling at that time. 156 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,240 And I remember saying to him, I said, "The weird thing is, 157 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,640 "is that people always sort of think I'm strong. 158 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,440 "And the truth is I'm not and I'm really struggling at the moment." 159 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,320 And he would often then, a day or so later, send me little drawings 160 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,080 he would do, just encouraging stuff. 161 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,360 And I remember him doing one along those lines, 162 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,440 saying you need help is brave. 163 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,960 One of the things that struck me about Charlie's work on Instagram 164 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,680 is the instant emotional connection it had with people. 165 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:10,040 It certainly, for me, I found it a very moving experience. 166 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,400 Looking at his work on Instagram and thinking, 167 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,240 "My gosh, there could be something here, there could be something 168 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,480 "that we could collect these images into these artworks, into a book 169 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,520 "and introduce him to even more people." 170 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,400 The process of making the book began with us, considering how the book 171 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,440 should look and feel in someone's hand. 172 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,600 And it was really important to Charlie that the book reflected 173 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,720 how the original artworks looked. 174 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,880 I don't think any of us at the beginning knew 175 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,000 what it would really entail. 176 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,560 I got a call from Laura from Penguin and she said, 177 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:57,520 "There's a guy called Charlie, he's produced all of this work. 178 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,440 "He's just had an exhibition, can you go and meet him?" 179 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,360 I popped over one morning. 180 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,600 It's freezing cold, a February morning, 181 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,600 and we sat out in the garden and we had this really 182 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,760 wonderful morning together. 183 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,640 I had meetings for the rest of the day all lined up and ended 184 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,440 up cancelling all of them and just ended up spending time 185 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,800 just talking about everything. 186 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,040 And then Charlie said, "Oh, I'll just go and get 187 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,480 "what I've got for the book." 188 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,560 So he went into the house and he wheeled out this wheelbarrow, 189 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:34,400 which is full of these drawings, and I thought, "Maybe it's not 190 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,160 "going to be a week's work." 191 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,000 He started talking about the book and his relationship 192 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,440 with his community online and what it was all about. 193 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,200 At that point, Charlie already had a fairly significant 194 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,160 following on social media, so his work was almost being 195 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,040 demanded by that community. 196 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,320 We sat in the garden. 197 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,960 Colm, we kind of agreed we'd try and make a treasure 198 00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:03,400 that was not about selling anything, but was going to help people, right? 199 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,960 Yeah. Colm just said, "Oh, we'll put it together in a day or so." 200 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,280 And then, so began this journey where we just slowly, over time, 201 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:14,480 arranged the book. 202 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,160 It was a long journey, and because, you know, essentially, 203 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,240 there was hundreds and probably thousands of drawings. 204 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,000 It was a process of elimination more than it was construction. 205 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,840 It was like pulling things out, saying, that's not relevant, 206 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,480 that's not relevant, until eventually we were left with 207 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,640 the bare essentials. 208 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,640 Yeah, we spoke about, like, creating like an object, something 209 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,680 that has this energy to it, no matter how much it's reproduced. 210 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:41,800 And I think all of that energy comes from, like, putting 211 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,640 all of this work into it, like, you know, it was kind of like 212 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,480 lots and lots of time and patience. 213 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,000 See, all these, these are all, like, all these pads 214 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,000 are full of mistakes. 215 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,400 That's the thing, you're looking at basically a sea of error. 216 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,200 And out of which, if you keep going, you'll find something that's worth 217 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,040 keeping, but it's mainly error. 218 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,200 So what I started with deeply was, out of all these drawings trying 219 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,960 to find, choose them that feel they have meaning, 220 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,880 that they take you on a journey. 221 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,400 "What is that over there?" asked the boy. 222 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,760 "It's the wild," said the mole. 223 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,800 "Don't fear it." 224 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,840 I was brought up in Northumberland and lived in the landscape. 225 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,800 As a boy, I used to stand on a hill and look at the horizon a quarter, 226 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,880 or half a mile away and say, if I get to that wood, 227 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,800 I wouldn't be able to see myself from here, I'd be part of it. 228 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,280 So I'd pick a spot in the distance and then walk to it and then sit 229 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,920 down and think, "I'm now invisible to where I was before." 230 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,560 I love the idea that you can be immersed in something so much 231 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,080 bigger than yourself. 232 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,640 For the book, part of why I've loved doing drawings of landscape 233 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,880 is just to share the love of it, really. 234 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,200 And animals and nature generally. 235 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,400 Because I think, you know, there's part of us deeply trusts it. 236 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,680 Animals are such a great medium, really, for storytelling. 237 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,720 Children can relate to them. 238 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,240 You know, I think children are natural animal lovers. 239 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,640 There's a special relationship between children and animals. 240 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,040 They have this very direct connection, very responsive 241 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,800 connection to animals and the natural world. 242 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,920 I think all books that contain words and pictures are relatable 243 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,240 to a wide audience. 244 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,160 Even very young children can look at pictures 245 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,960 and understand them. 246 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,880 I really like the expressiveness of Charlie's drawing. 247 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,440 It makes us sort of feel that it's effortless, 248 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,040 and actually, there's a whole lifetime of draughtsmanship 249 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,600 has gone into the way those drawings unfold and the many times 250 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,000 that he's drawn those characters and, you know, this sort 251 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,600 of fluidity to them. 252 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,800 Books like Charlie's are really rare because he has the ability 253 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,640 to cross over genres. 254 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,000 He has the ability to speak to adults and children, 255 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,960 people of all ages. 256 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,840 The book might bring to mind AA Milne's Winnie-the-Pooh 257 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,920 or Raymond Briggs' Snowman. 258 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,400 Winnie-the-Pooh came at a very similar time 259 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,520 in that it was post-war and it was a very hard 260 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,880 time for everybody. 261 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,200 And Winnie-the-Pooh brought the similar kind of comfort and joy. 262 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,760 Our home is full of so many little drawings of Charlie's 263 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,120 from over the years. 264 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,360 You know, we struggle with anxiety or stress or frustration or anger 265 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:09,320 or whatever it is, I think Charlie's drawings hit straight 266 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,800 to the heart of actually saying, "It's OK, that's OK." 267 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,360 You know, "Just... Just be honest, it's OK." 268 00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:18,880 And as soon as you kind of let that guard down, of course, 269 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,680 you create connections with people, whether it's around 270 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,800 you or your readers or whatever, and where there's connections, 271 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,520 there's always strength. 272 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,040 "Always remember, you matter. 273 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,720 "You're important and you're loved, and you bring to this world, 274 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,920 "things no-one else can." 275 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,640 The wisdom in Charlie's book has its roots 276 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,640 in his own life experiences. 277 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,920 My parents were both so lovely and really wanted me to get 278 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,920 the best education. 279 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,320 I think at boarding school it was tougher. 280 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,160 You competed far harder and it was an all boys school, a monoculture. 281 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,800 And more Darwinian, you tended to bury your thoughts in yourself. 282 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,680 When you're away from home, it's harder to process stuff 283 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,560 and you get used to internalising things. 284 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,440 At some point I thought I'd really love to just be at home and go 285 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,360 to the state school. 286 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,720 When I was at the state school, there was some lads 287 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:32,320 who were just openly vulnerable and didn't need to compete so much. 288 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,120 Marie, who was in biology next to me, 289 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,760 I remember her loving the vulnerability of Mark. 290 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,200 I was like, "He's not showing off", and she was like, 291 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,280 "Oh, that's lovely, isn't it? He's so honest. 292 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,680 "He's lovely, isn't he?" 293 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,800 I thought... 294 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,080 ..wow. 295 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,440 She liked the fact that he said that he struggled. 296 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,800 I think, for me, I just discovered a whole world of honesty 297 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,920 and communicating emotion. 298 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,440 You know, there's one drawing that's not in the book, where the boy 299 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,360 says, you know, "I haven't really achieved anything, have I? 300 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,040 "What have I actually done?" 301 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,440 The horse says, "Well, you've been a friend, 302 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,360 "and that's a spectacular thing." 303 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,480 Jamie, I met at school, he was hilarious. 304 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,400 And we sort of got each other. 305 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,120 You know, we're kind of semi-feral, rural types. 306 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:28,600 We just used to muck about on the farm and just eat a lot 307 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,720 of toast and get covered in mud. 308 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,160 Talk about girls and... 309 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,640 ..fail at having girlfriends and we just understood each other 310 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,640 and we made each other laugh and he thought I was ridiculous. 311 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,720 And you know how boys are, you know, friends are, you just share 312 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,120 the same connections. 313 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:48,200 We were just really good friends, you know? 314 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,160 I always remember he had this wreck of a car and I didn't drive 315 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,800 and he was always giving me lifts and we used to listen 316 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,120 to Tom Petty loudly. 317 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,120 Yeah, and just go to the local pub and it was a really good 318 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:01,800 rural farming community there. 319 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,880 And Jamie and I were sort of part of it, really. 320 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,320 We didn't have big dreams. 321 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,680 We just enjoyed existing. 322 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,640 So, one day, I just got a call from a mutual friend saying... 323 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,800 I was away at the time, actually, I was up north seeing my family. 324 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,160 And he just said, "I just got some news." 325 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,880 I said, "Oh, yeah?" 326 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,520 "Jamie was killed today." 327 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,600 Yeah, came off the road and the car burst into flames. 328 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,200 The funeral was this tiny little church on a hill with loads 329 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:40,760 of people standing outside. 330 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,600 And I remember one of the guys saying, "Big boys don't cry." 331 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:49,680 And still hadn't connected with my emotion. 332 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,080 There was a man that Jamie and I had worked with. 333 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,640 He was a big, strong... 334 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,840 ..man. 335 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,680 And he came up to me. 336 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,120 He saw me, he walked straight over to me. 337 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:05,440 He had tears hanging in the bottom of the eyelids. 338 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,680 He looked straight in my eyes and pressed his head against... 339 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,760 He leant and he goes... 340 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,000 "What a bloody waste, Charlie." 341 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,240 "What a bloody waste." 342 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,400 And it was like someone... 343 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,280 ..had... 344 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,240 ..pulled the ripcord or something in my inner being. 345 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,360 It was an extraordinary experience to suddenly feel... 346 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:44,880 ..everything. 347 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,160 Like, they are red lines in life, but nothing's ever the same again 348 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,480 and that was one of my red lines, Jamie dying, 349 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,720 and wondering why and how and... 350 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,680 I remember it was like a tumble dryer spinning, spinning, spinning. 351 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,040 I went mad for months. 352 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,560 One day you feel nothing and feel bad for not feeling anything. 353 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,520 Oh, he's died. 354 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,720 And the next day, you feel angry or very, very low. 355 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,520 I think the whole idea of grief is unexplored 356 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,560 or under-explored, generally. 357 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,520 That loss, even though it's agony, can awaken in you 358 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,800 something beautiful. 359 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,600 It was a big thing for me, both deep grief and loss 360 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,320 and also this kind of liberation from a certain way of thinking. 361 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,160 His death definitely catalysed me into daring to make 362 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,720 a living from drawing. 363 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,160 Because what have you got to lose, you know? 364 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,240 Really? 365 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,560 I began drawing when I was about 19. 366 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,520 I went to London because my sister had a flat there and she said, 367 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,320 "Oh, just come and sleep on the floor." 368 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:08,640 So I did. 369 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,680 London in the '80s was very different to how it is now. 370 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,800 It was lighter and sillier and more playful 371 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,240 and I was fascinated by it. 372 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,360 I liked the energy - you could see in Technicolor. 373 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:29,600 The colours were turned up or it was intense and you could feel so much. 374 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,240 And I liked the massive variation in cultures 375 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,880 and, coming from Northumberland, I'd never seen that before. 376 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,720 I was quite drawn to that. 377 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,680 London for me was so much opportunity. 378 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,640 I did loads of jobs - I was a waiter, 379 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,000 I worked on building sites, I was a hospital porter. 380 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,640 I did anything. 381 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,600 I remember the day I started drawing, I got The Standard 382 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,760 newspaper and I'd been looking in the back pages because there 383 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,360 were jobs there and I couldn't really see anything. 384 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,080 And there was a messy table. 385 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,600 And on that table was a pen. 386 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,640 It was russety red, like a maroon colour. 387 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,240 And I looked at it and I remember just being a bit intrigued by it. 388 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,080 So I picked it up and unscrewed the lid and there's a very thin nib. 389 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,600 And I remember doing a few dots of ink on an envelope with it, 390 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,720 thinking, "Wow, this is a very fine nib, bet you could get some 391 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,800 "detail with this." 392 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,520 And it was a kind of miracle to me the ink could even get down 393 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,520 such a thin nib. 394 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,720 So I took the pen and the paper and wandered across the road and went 395 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,160 into the park and sat under a tree. 396 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,440 I started drawing. 397 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,920 The freedom I felt when I started making the marks 398 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,720 was like a tiny spark to a flame. 399 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,960 There was something here that was intriguing and intoxicating. 400 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,920 I remember drawing some houses with trees in front and loving 401 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,360 the shapes of the trees with the architecture. 402 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,720 I could think when I did it. 403 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Like the process of making art helps you feel and think 404 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,720 and get things in order. 405 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,520 We have these moments in our lives, don't we? 406 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,200 We have these little things 407 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,040 that they come and they grow like mustard seed, 408 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,720 like tiny and then grow. 409 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,600 And that just happened to be it. 410 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,960 It was an amazing journey, but I couldn't... I couldn't seem... 411 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,680 ..to stop drawing. 412 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,400 And, you know, I remember someone coming up to me saying, 413 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,880 you know, "Is that for sale?" 414 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,560 And I was like, "Are you...?" 415 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,120 I didn't think they were sellable at the time. 416 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:10,000 I started selling them, started sitting on streets. 417 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,400 And for four years, I sat on the streets of London, drawing it 418 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,560 and selling straight to strangers. 419 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,360 Even in February, I remember freezing, 420 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:24,400 I kept doing the drawings and that's how I made a living. 421 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,520 Then, of course, a gallery guy walks past eventually, 422 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,840 stops and he looked at the drawings and said, 423 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,480 "Do you want to come and talk to us?" 424 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,320 I was amazed that a gallery would be interested in me. 425 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,480 I said, "OK". Before I knew it, I was with a gallery. 426 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,800 The gallery took me to New York. 427 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,600 When I was there I went to New Orleans and stayed there 428 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,760 and ended up drawing so much in those clubs. 429 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,160 I liked their energy and they felt very free. 430 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,680 How long did you spend there? 431 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,240 A few months. 432 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,240 It's so hot. 433 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,720 Just sit there and just drip sweat onto the paper, you know, 434 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,320 sit at the back of these clubs. 435 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,800 This Preservation Hall, I remember, in New Orleans was amazing. 436 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,640 The line is a bit of a blur, but just generally splodging 437 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,960 along, renting studios, doing shows with galleries. 438 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,880 I've always loved making people laugh, so that was always... 439 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,640 ..like part of me was... 440 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,880 You know, for my mum, my family, my mother's room is just 441 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,320 wall-to-wall ridiculous cartoons. 442 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,200 When I was little, I remember someone saying, "Oh, I can't get 443 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,440 "over your new house, Jane," or whatever. 444 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,120 And I'm thinking, "Are you trying to climb it? 445 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,120 "What do you mean, you can't get over it?" 446 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,080 And so I had this kind of literal, literal brain where people said 447 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,400 to me, and actually, you know, 448 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,440 "Jeffrey's watching the cricket," and I see Jeffrey on his hands 449 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,920 and he's looking at this little insect in the grass. 450 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,880 And so the cartoons have always been in the back of my head, 451 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,680 and largely just to make people smile. 452 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,520 Never done anything with them, really. 453 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,560 "How do they look so together and perfect?" asked the boy. 454 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,600 "There's a lot of frantic paddling going on beneath," 455 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,120 said the horse. 456 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,600 People see the book or the finished drawings, but they don't see 457 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,240 the thousands, actually tens of thousands of drawings 458 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,560 that didn't work. 459 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,680 Basically, all we're trying to do is create something that makes, 460 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,200 that completely makes visual sense and the words 461 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,920 work with the image. 462 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,240 This one here, "The great illusion," said the mole, 463 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,880 "is that life should be perfect." 464 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,640 I had that, I drew that and I put it... It was behind me. 465 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,680 The ink takes, like, 25 minutes to dry. 466 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,360 And so you can't just put a drawing on top of a drawing 467 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,760 because it just smudges. 468 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,880 So I would arrange more around here. 469 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,200 And then I heard Barney and he just walked right 470 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,720 across it and taken the ink straight across, right across those words. 471 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,080 Those are his paw marks there. 472 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,560 Erm, "The great illusion is that life should be perfect." 473 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,760 And Barney was making the point really that this drawing therefore 474 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,560 should not be perfect. 475 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,760 Most of the time, it was like taking lots of different versions 476 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,760 of this drawing and putting it together. 477 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,720 So we'd say, "Oh, the mole looks big in this, 478 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,680 "or the mole looks better in this drawing." 479 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,320 So we might take three or four different drawings... Yeah. 480 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:26,560 ..and put them together. 481 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,280 That's trying to kind of get a balance of how do you perfect 482 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,680 a messy drawing, essentially? Yeah, exactly. 483 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,240 The reason why I think the ink was important 484 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,280 is because it's very simple. 485 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,040 So we made complex things both visually simple, 486 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,640 and the words as bare as possible, as naked as possible. 487 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,480 I think we're like sponges, you know, and I think we absorb 488 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,960 everything around us and everything is telling us stuff. 489 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,520 And, in the end, you know, you then produce something 490 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,680 in response to all of that information. 491 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,120 All the empathy and anger and frustration and loss and grief 492 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,360 all went into making a cake... 493 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,680 ..that we cooked... Yeah. 494 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,280 Erm, which is wholly inadequate and only scratches 495 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,600 the flipping surface of everything. 496 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,160 But it was enough of a little scratch, I think, to help 497 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,960 some people somewhere. 498 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,320 I think if art can repeat something to someone over and over again 499 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,240 by being in a permanent place where it can permanently speak 500 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,560 to you over and over again, say, "You are loved, you are held, 501 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,760 "you are known," I think as symbols, they can feed your... 502 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,520 ..your existence. 503 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,880 One of our greatest freedoms is how we react to things. 504 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,520 I think we all liberate each other. 505 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,240 The more vulnerable we can be, the more we set each other free. 506 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,080 And the characters, each one sets the other free, really, 507 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:03,720 by being fragile. 508 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,720 On one level, nothing's really changed because 509 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,040 I'm in the same place as I've been for a long time 510 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,120 and see, you know, four old ladies, I mean, I see my family every 511 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,560 day, my lovely mum, my brilliant family who look 512 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,440 after her and they know me really well. 513 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,800 And whether you're doing well or not, it doesn't 514 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,640 really make any difference, you know? 515 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,680 They just sort of love you wherever you are. 516 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,840 And I think that's probably more successful. 517 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,600 That's success to me. 518 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,920 Charlie created the book using a dip pen and ink. 519 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,880 Adapting his work into an animated short film presents new challenges. 520 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,200 If someone, when I was 19, said to me, "You're going to do a book 521 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,480 "about a boy, a mole a fox and a horse," 522 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,360 I'd have found that bizarre. 523 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,880 If the same person had said, "Yeah, you going to make a film of it", 524 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:58,040 I would have been a little bit sceptical. 525 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:03,640 Obviously, I'm not a film-maker, so I learned on the hoof. 526 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,000 I just did a book, you know, we were all clueless to begin with, 527 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,600 how are we going to do this? 528 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,960 Making a film out of some drawings I made. 529 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,680 So I think, when you started to put it together, I think I helped 530 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,440 a little bit just moving some sections around in terms 531 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,080 of beginning, middle and end. 532 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,280 You'd created a book and now it had to have an even stronger narrative. 533 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,280 Is that what you felt at the start with working on the film? 534 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,320 Yeah, I mean, doing all the storyboards, 535 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,120 I remember having big boards and you came in and saw them all 536 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,480 and it was a sea of things. 537 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,560 And I, as usual, was quite defensive about things. 538 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:46,840 About making changes. 539 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,880 Yeah, because, with the book, a lot of people have said, "It needs 540 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,320 "more of a story." I said, "No, it doesn't, the story 541 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,160 "is in the conversation, it doesn't need to have this 542 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,200 "over developed narrative." 543 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,800 I just want them to be chatting and honest. 544 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,000 And you said, "Yeah, but the film is different. 545 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,600 "You can't just have them wandering around chatting. 546 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,840 "They need... They need purpose and..." 547 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,240 "Oh, yeah, yeah, you've made films, haven't you?" 548 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,800 I seem to remember my major contribution was by suggesting 549 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,680 that the first sentence of the film, did I say, 550 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,400 "So what's the motivation?" 551 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,760 No, you said, "What's the boy's issue? 552 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,600 Like, "What, what's the problem here?" 553 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,800 And the problem was, the main problem was that he was lost. 554 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,560 Yeah, so I think we put that in right at the top. Yeah. 555 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,440 And then, of course, if he's lost, then their journey 556 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,600 is more directional. Yeah, exactly. 557 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,640 Because they've got to head for home. 558 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,600 And then, the end is more decisive in this now, isn't it? 559 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,360 They get somewhere and then... 560 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,920 They all have their own arcs in the film, you know, 561 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:53,360 and they all arrive... They move from one place to another internally 562 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,320 and as creatures, as personalities. 563 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,360 And then, I think you worked quite hard on the end, didn't you? 564 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,200 I think the end is basically they were all realising that... 565 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,200 That the home they're looking for is them, 566 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,080 that they are home. 567 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,720 I think that's fairly simple. 568 00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:14,120 It's a classic structure, the idea that you're changed by the journey. 569 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,840 The journey, yeah. You know, that you set off thinking 570 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,640 you're aiming for one thing and then you get to the end. Yeah. 571 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,720 We began in October 2020. 572 00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:29,960 So that's when the production really kicked off and no-one 573 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,840 could meet or, you know, 574 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,200 actually do anything normal. 575 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,480 And we were in the throes 576 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:36,800 of our second lockdown. 577 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,640 It was clear right from the start 578 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,480 that to do justice to Charlie's 579 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,200 work, we needed to find the finest 580 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,000 artists we could find 581 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,160 all around the world. 582 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,840 Everyone was working from home, 583 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,000 but through the course of making the film over the last two years 584 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:56,920 we've had over 130 artists working on it from over 15 different 585 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,920 countries, all working on different time zones. 586 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:05,000 We spent a lot of time talking about the personalities of each 587 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,080 character, how they would react in certain situations, 588 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,040 how they would react to each other and what kind of mannerisms 589 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,800 they might have, depending on their personality. 590 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,400 For example, the boy, you know, never just sits still, 591 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,200 because little boys rarely do sit still. 592 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,880 It's uncharted territory. 593 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,240 But that's incredibly, you know, that's incredibly exciting. 594 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,960 One of the producers of Charlie's film is JJ Abrams, the film-maker 595 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,440 behind Super 8, Star Wars and Mission Impossible III. 596 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,600 It's amazing reading the script. 597 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,080 It immediately translates, 598 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,360 even in an animated script form, 599 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,600 to that feeling you have 600 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,880 when you read the book. 601 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,920 And it just, it was so alive, so quickly. 602 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,080 One of the things that I thought was wonderful and it was the idea 603 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,240 that the boy declares up front, "I'm lost." 604 00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:59,200 Right, right. I just think it is a brilliant brushstroke. 605 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:04,760 I just think that, by doing that, that little thing of, "I'm lost," 606 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,800 it gives you purchase as a viewer to say, "I know why I'm here." 607 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,360 But my biggest fear, and I know we'll avoid this, but I just want 608 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,320 to say it so I know I will have said it, 609 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,440 is to have something that is a beautiful object 610 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,760 to look at and to experience 611 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,920 and yet, somehow, not allow the audience 612 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,080 to be inside of it and to be a character. 613 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,640 The difference in the film and the book is that the book 614 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,240 can be taken at a pace the reader wants it to be taken at. 615 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:36,080 And the film is for us to decide the pace. 616 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,480 And I think that's a really big thing, is working out, 617 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,680 you know, how it's paced and where we allow space just to... Yes. 618 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,600 ..absorb or allow things to land emotionally before we move on. 619 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,840 Yeah, exactly right. 620 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,440 Those are big decisions. 621 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,560 The book is the characters meandering through the landscape... 622 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,440 ..and they're just chatting. 623 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,160 People say, "There's no story." 624 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,400 Well, the story is their conversation. 625 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,160 So I've never felt anything dramatic should happen, 626 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:16,280 or if they even needed a real purpose except for to communicate. 627 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,200 And I think that's the central issue of the human being, 628 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,040 is we have to find ways of communicating 629 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,120 who we are and how we feel. 630 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,080 You're basically the mole, aren't you, Barney? 631 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,840 You are the mole. 632 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,440 Did it make you very happy when you would think 633 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,200 of another bit of wisdom? 634 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,480 It's just like me thinking of a joke, did you think, 635 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,120 "Oh, yes, that's a bit of wisdom?" 636 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,080 I don't think I ever really saw it as wisdom. 637 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,320 I think I... What I really loved was if I felt something 638 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,160 was working, posted it on Instagram, you know, 639 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,360 you will get people writing to you, telling you a lot of stories, 640 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,160 some of which are really hard to read. Yeah. 641 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,000 And I've, I have read a lot now and I've kept a lot of the emails 642 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,520 that were the most moving. 643 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,840 But some of them are very hard to read about loss and death. 644 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,440 And out of the blue, I just suddenly started... 645 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,480 ..crying and then really weeping. 646 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,360 I think, "Why am... Why am I...? Where is this coming from?" 647 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,120 And I sort of realised later that it was probably stored 648 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,680 up emotion of reading so many people's lives. 649 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,120 You are offering consolation. 650 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,040 The book has an enormous, is, in a way, kind. 651 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,440 You know, it has a consolation in there and you would expect people 652 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,560 to take that consolation at its word. 653 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,120 The book is popular with people of all ages and children 654 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,360 in particular feel a special connection to the four friends. 655 00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:00,600 Sometimes a school has sent me drawings and pictures and a play 656 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,720 they'd written or whatever it is, or they send videos of plays 657 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:05,960 they've made or... And that just breaks my heart. 658 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,440 The character of the book, I just... 659 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,360 Because obviously they see things in the four that I don't. 660 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,320 They've taken the characters, and, you know, put their own 661 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,400 emotions into them. 662 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,360 And what more can you ask for than that? 663 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:27,000 You've started, you've licensed other people to feel or say or speak 664 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,120 or have a voice or draw or make something together or alone. 665 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,160 To have had the privilege of being that kind of catalyst... 666 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,840 ..to people saying how they really feel. 667 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,160 If at first you don't succeed, have some cake. 668 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,880 LAUGHTER 669 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,000 I see... Watch this, watch this. 670 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,400 I see. 671 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,960 "Does it work?" the boy asked. 672 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,880 "Every time." 673 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,000 This book is just filled with such whimsy and magic and wonder. 674 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,760 "Sometimes," said the horse. 675 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,360 "Sometimes what?" asked the boy. 676 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,480 "Sometimes just getting up and carrying on 677 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,880 "is brave and magnificent." 678 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,120 Oh, the emails I get from people saying "Thank you, but can we 679 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,960 "have this or can you do that? 680 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,000 "Can you write to my son who's dying?" or all those things, 681 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,680 an incredible privilege, but they, you know, 682 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,720 the reservoir empties a little bit. 683 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,400 And I was very bad initially at knowing how to manage 684 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:30,080 that, really bad, and got worn out very fast and then got grumpy... 685 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,240 ..and overwhelmed. 686 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,800 I mean, you know, I'm completely and utterly out of my depth with it. 687 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,520 For me, it's not just a drawing, it's what the drawing can do. 688 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,600 Don't stop making your messy drawings. 689 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,880 Just keep your mind alive to, you know, everything that you... 690 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,880 I... Anyway. 691 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,920 And, you know, I've struggled a little in my life with things, 692 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,240 like, I get anxious a lot, I get low quite a lot. 693 00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,280 Well, I think we're worshipful creatures, I think we like idols. 694 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,800 When we do it to a person and put them on a plinth, 695 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,640 I think, particularly in this country, we were very good 696 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,200 at putting someone on the plinth and then, and then once 697 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,520 they're on the plinth, we kind of shoot them down. 698 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,080 The year we were making it, it was a very difficult time. 699 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,880 Making the book was extremely hard. 700 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,760 I used to have terrible panic attacks. 701 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,640 There have been times when, you know, I've been interviewed 702 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,760 and I remember hiding in the loo. 703 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,480 My heart was racing, I was very panicked. 704 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,080 It makes my head blur and I think, "What am I going to say 705 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:29,560 "and why am I here? 706 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,360 "What happens if I say something terrible or don't say 707 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,760 "the right thing, or don't do what they want me to do, or...?" 708 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,400 I find that difficult, I find being exposed difficult. 709 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,960 My brain just spins with the idea of sitting in front of a camera. 710 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,920 And I'm doing it because I think it, you know, it's important 711 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,160 to try to say things that you think are important, whoever you are, 712 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,840 however scary it is. 713 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,840 I think people have been brave with me, you know. 714 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,360 They've been really courageous in what they've told me 715 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,000 of their lives, like heart... 716 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,080 I can.... 717 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,480 Being human and being able to put yourself in someone else's 718 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,120 shoes, whether it's for five minutes or an hour or whatever it is, 719 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,800 is an incredible thing. 720 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,080 And if someone communicates a story to you in a way 721 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,280 that helps you do that, it's gold dust. 722 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,440 I think stories are crucial. 723 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:02,560 "We have a long way to go," sighed the boy. 724 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,120 "Yes, but look how far we've come," said the horse. 725 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,800 I think about, often, the last two years of what we've all 726 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,880 been through and the emails I've got from people and just how much 727 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,440 weaker they've felt, how much they've struggled. 728 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,840 And I thought, "I really want to make a film that... 729 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,960 "..that identifies with that, that meets people in that somehow." 730 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,200 So much beauty we need to look after. 731 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,200 Yes, so much. 732 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:44,400 Ooh! 733 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,320 My little book is quite suggestive. 734 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,640 It's not complete in its study of the faces. 735 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,480 You suggest what the boy looks like. 736 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,800 And, similarly, with the fox and the horse and the mole. 737 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:01,120 And I was really scared of changing them or making them, adapting them 738 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,360 in a way that wasn't true to them. 739 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,880 The journey of the film really has been discovering 740 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,880 more about them and how they move. 741 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,880 Because how you move shows a bit more of your character. 742 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,720 We studied foxes and the horse, we had a live reference 743 00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:18,560 and studied him. 744 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,080 And the boy, we often used references of children 745 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,760 of the people I work with. 746 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,920 The animated film is slowly coming to life. 747 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,480 Morning. Hi, Charlie. 748 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:36,960 Good morning. Morning, Charlie. 749 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,320 Hello. 750 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,840 How are you doing? 751 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,760 All right, how are you? 752 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,120 What's happening, what have you got today? 753 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,400 Kick off. 754 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:51,160 I think you believe in me more than I do. 755 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,360 You'll catch up. 756 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,000 The horse's eye there, Charlie. 757 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,720 That's floored me, that has floored me. 758 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:06,600 The timing of the hymn of the robin is just too much for me. 759 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:07,920 It's just... 760 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:10,560 Hang on, guys. 761 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,120 There's a robin wrapped up over there. 762 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,840 It died when I hit it in the car. 763 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,600 I got out of the car and put it on my lap that night talking 764 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,280 to some friends, one of whom is writing music for the film. 765 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,000 And I started humming this tune. 766 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,680 It was just all my emotion came out. 767 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,240 I know it sounds ridiculous, really, but I just, I can't 768 00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:29,320 bear killing songbirds. 769 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,400 And, erm... 770 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,720 ..the music you just heard there is the... 771 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,440 We wrote the... We based the soundtrack really on... 772 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,720 ..the hymn for the robin, which is the tune we came up with 773 00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:46,040 and the phone call straight after. 774 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,800 Can we play that one more time, the hymn for the robin there? 775 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,680 Yeah... Oops. 776 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,640 I think you believe in me 777 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,320 more than I do. 778 00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,640 You'll catch up. 779 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:03,960 Life is difficult. 780 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,120 But you are loved. 781 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,880 The mole was always a tricky one because the mole 782 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,520 is a derivation of a mole, I think, it's my own mole. 783 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,240 So we haven't got any... There was no, like, 784 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:26,880 "Oh, that's how they move." 785 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,880 Because a real mole doesn't look like the mole so much. 786 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,840 If he's standing up and he's got these big, round Oreo 787 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,480 biscuit-like hands, you know... 788 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,040 Does he...? Does he use his feet? Does he...? 789 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:41,560 How's it going to happen? 790 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,120 I watched a lot of David Attenborough stuff and I was 791 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,040 watching really late one night and there was this penguin 792 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,160 just shuffling and it was moving like it... 793 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,960 ..45 degree turns so the body sways and I was like... 794 00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:58,520 "..Oh, that's the mole." 795 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,520 What are you doing here? 796 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,520 I'm lost. 797 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:08,080 Oh, dear, well, that's no good. 798 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,120 So, how...? 799 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,880 How did you get here? 800 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,000 Well, hello. 801 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,360 Hello, who? 802 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,000 Hello, cake. 803 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,920 Tom Holland is the mole. 804 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,080 He's so hilarious, he's such a brilliant actor. 805 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,080 He's a legend, really, and he's the perfect mole. 806 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,440 "What do you think is the biggest 807 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:32,640 "waste of time?" 808 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,280 "Comparing yourself to others," said the mole. 809 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:40,480 That leapt out at me as an idea when I read it, because... 810 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,160 ..I personally have found it to be a chronic problem 811 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:46,440 in my life. 812 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,440 People have tried to persuade me to stop doing that myself. 813 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:56,680 Because it's the source of a lot of pointless unhappiness. 814 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,120 Anyway, so we must stop. 815 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,120 And that was on, yes, page ten or something, 816 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,320 so I was immediately sucked in. 817 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:11,480 I always, in my head, wanted the boy to have a soft Scottish accent. 818 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,240 You know, I'm lost, that long lost. 819 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:15,560 Ah, man. 820 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,560 And when I heard his voice in the audition... 821 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,360 His voice... 822 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,240 I knew instantly that it should be him. 823 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,360 How fast can you run? 824 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,200 Well, I wouldn't say I was a natural athlete. 825 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,960 I think my favourite character is the mole, I think, 826 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,960 because he's quite playful and he kind of brings 827 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:39,440 the whole group to life. 828 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,680 The fox is quite an outsider, but he's been welcomed into the group 829 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,320 and he feels at home there. 830 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,640 The horse is very, erm... 831 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,480 He's very wise, but he also has some insecurities 832 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,440 that the group help him kind 833 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,600 of express his real feelings. 834 00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,440 And I think the boy's quite adventurous, but he still needs 835 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,840 the rest of the group to help him with his confidence 836 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,640 to finish his journey that he's been on. 837 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:13,360 It just seemed like one of those very special opportunities 838 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,600 to do, to be part of some magical little film that might 839 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,320 be eternally on at Christmas-time. 840 00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:27,200 And then Idris Elba, well, I mean, you know, legend, really. 841 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,480 He did the fox so well and the fox's arc, you know, 842 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,960 being dangerous, then coming through to having the killer lines. 843 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,600 You are loved. 844 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,480 And important. 845 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,120 And you bring to this world things that no-one else can. 846 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:46,520 So hold on. 847 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:57,880 We went through a few different people 848 00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,800 who were going to do the horse and I'd always loved Gabriel Byrne. 849 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,280 And I wrote him a letter and we had a phone conversation. 850 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,080 He said, "Charlie, I am the horse." 851 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,000 "I have the book." 852 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,640 I was like, "What?!" 853 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,760 Yeah, so that was them, you know, we had our four. 854 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,120 It took us just under two years to complete the film, 855 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:25,520 from the day that we started developing the script 856 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,000 to the day we were able to send it off. 857 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,840 Without a doubt, this has been the most challenging production 858 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,960 that I think any of us have worked on. 859 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,680 And most of that was driven by the fact that our collective 860 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:46,600 ambitions for the film were so incredibly high. 861 00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:51,320 One of the challenges was just getting used to the idea of seeing 862 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,000 the characters up close and seeing some different angles 863 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,720 or having camera moves. 864 00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:59,720 We did lots of kind of storyboarding and shifting around and changing 865 00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:03,320 angles and just getting something that feels right. 866 00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:09,720 In key moments, key lines from the book, we actually do mirror 867 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:12,000 the same viewpoint. 868 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,080 The mole asks the boy, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" 869 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,520 And the boy kind of thinks about it and answers, "Kind." 870 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,400 And then you kind of move through them. 871 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,960 And that was shot just from the same view behind the characters, 872 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,800 sat on that branch so that anyone who feels connected to the book 873 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,120 also connects to those moments in the film. 874 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:36,840 Thank you. 875 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,640 "I've discovered something better than cake," said the mole. 876 00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:46,840 "No, you haven't," said the boy. 877 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:48,800 "I have." 878 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,440 "What is it?" 879 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,400 "A hug... It lasts longer." 880 00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:56,840 Where do the hugs come from? 881 00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,920 I've always loved the idea of redemption. 882 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,440 I've loved the idea of forgiveness, I've loved the idea of coming home. 883 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,400 I love the feeling of being held. 884 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,760 I think humans, I think everybody really wants to feel 885 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,960 like they're loved and known and held and understood and accepted. 886 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,760 So I was very drawn to making images that make people 887 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,400 feel that viscerally. 888 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,200 Like, I think, "Oh, it can heal you." 889 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:25,240 You can feel something and see something and it can have 890 00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:26,760 a physical effect on you. 891 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:32,080 And to make images that help people feel hope or understood, 892 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,480 or not alone or held or loved or... I don't know. 893 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,280 It's just this whole thing that we thirst for, 894 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,160 but can't put our fingers on. 895 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,080 "Just take this step." 896 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,000 "The horizon will look after itself." 897 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,840 The film's coming to an end, which is quite strange. 898 00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,720 We're just finishing the music. 899 00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:02,560 The BBC Orchestra are recording it and... 900 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,680 I just feel it's quite surreal. 901 00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,080 All this sound and beauty that's being recorded has come 902 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:11,440 from tiny places. 903 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,320 Tiny conversations, events. 904 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,280 I will die... 905 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,360 ..relieved we've done it, and pleased. 906 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,040 But I still know that I'm scruffy Charlie, who wanders round 907 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,920 and doesn't wash his clothes properly, and when I get the chance 908 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,000 to feel and really think about what's gone on with it, 909 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,520 I just feel this deep sense of gratitude and pleasure. 910 00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:42,840 This is Charlie Mackesy, who's the author and illustrator. 911 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,840 Thank you so much. 912 00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:48,160 That's lovely. 913 00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,600 That's... What do you think? 914 00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:52,800 No, no, that's wrong. 915 00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,080 A normal three, and... 916 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,920 Whoa-ho-ho! 917 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,400 I think when the boy says, "I'm lost," in the film, 918 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,720 I think that's definitely how I felt, a bit. 919 00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:26,880 I think I've always felt slightly lost. 920 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,960 I think maybe all of us do, I think, you know, 921 00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,760 we're all looking for home in some way 922 00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,520 and the journey, you know, 923 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,760 so the whole idea of the film is, that is their journey. 924 00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,080 Charlie is a master communicator and his success was never 925 00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:45,600 just going to be quite good. 926 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,320 It was always going to be off the scale and out of this world. 927 00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,880 And, you know, his book now has been three years in the top ten. 928 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,360 It's broken all the records. 929 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,280 It's just amazing seeing it now, seeing millions and millions 930 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,000 of people around the world kind of get it and be able to share 931 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,480 a little bit of that. 932 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,840 I remember saying to them, "I don't care if this is a good 933 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,520 "or a bad film, I don't give a damn. 934 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:16,120 "I just want it, to someone, to feel something that makes them feel... 935 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,280 "..hopeful or better or..." 936 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,840 So, ultimately, if someone sees it and is moved and it changes 937 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,880 how they see themselves for good or their existence, 938 00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,760 to me, that's a good film. 939 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,560 APPLAUSE 940 00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,880 I love the idea of the natural landscape being 941 00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:03,360 a metaphor for something. 942 00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,280 Pain being a glacier 943 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,120 moving through you, carving out deep valleys. 944 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,800 If the characters have an arc... 945 00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,640 ..I have an arc and I think it takes a lifetime to work out 946 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,000 what you really want to say, at least it has for me. 947 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,360 I think tiny things can lead to big things. 948 00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,160 The tiniest act of kindness can save a life. 949 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:39,840 It was never in my sights that we were awarded an Oscar for the film. 950 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,560 It's very surreal. 951 00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:45,240 At the actual ceremony I hid in the loo a couple of times! 952 00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,720 Sometimes I get overwhelmed by things 953 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,480 and it is easier to recoup and regroup 954 00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,480 and collect myself just in a little bit of space in the loo 955 00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:53,640 just for a minute. 956 00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,040 I actually remember going in and just writing 957 00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,000 "We just won an Oscar" and posted it. 958 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,840 I didn't prepare a speech because I was so sure we wouldn't win 959 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,520 and after I'd made the speech I regretted not mentioning 960 00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:04,880 so many people - 961 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:09,400 Peter and Cara and all the team and 120 animators, my family, 962 00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,120 friends, people on Instagram, everybody who contributed 963 00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,040 to the thinking and the direction of the characters in the film. 964 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,120 I'm just so elated for everyone 965 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,880 and the Oscar is for all of us, so thank you. 966 00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:21,920 Thanks for being part of it.