1 00:00:35,383 --> 00:00:36,732 Did you feel anything at all 2 00:00:36,732 --> 00:00:40,170 about the little red room downstairs? 3 00:00:40,170 --> 00:00:43,086 That was like a secret room. 4 00:00:43,086 --> 00:00:45,610 And that was described as 5 00:00:45,610 --> 00:00:47,786 the gateway to hell. 6 00:00:47,786 --> 00:00:50,180 If the red room is there, 7 00:00:50,180 --> 00:00:52,313 then there really is something supernatural 8 00:00:52,313 --> 00:00:54,228 or satanic about the house. 9 00:00:54,228 --> 00:00:55,707 I'm not sure. 10 00:00:55,707 --> 00:00:59,320 I think it was just a concrete wall painted red. 11 00:01:04,542 --> 00:01:06,457 My name is Patty Commarato. 12 00:01:06,457 --> 00:01:08,372 I was friends with Allison DeFeo, 13 00:01:08,372 --> 00:01:10,679 the girl who was murdered with the rest of her family 14 00:01:10,679 --> 00:01:12,507 here in 1974. 15 00:01:12,507 --> 00:01:14,509 This is the red room. 16 00:01:14,509 --> 00:01:16,554 Nothing more than a storage area 17 00:01:16,554 --> 00:01:20,297 where Allison and her brothers and I used to keep toys. 18 00:01:20,297 --> 00:01:22,560 Just red, you know? 19 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,913 There's never any feeling of spirit presence or ghosts 20 00:01:27,913 --> 00:01:30,568 or any sort of thing like that. 21 00:01:52,677 --> 00:01:54,679 Get out. 22 00:03:14,629 --> 00:03:16,239 Haven't you made a lot of money 23 00:03:16,239 --> 00:03:18,720 out of this story, whether it is true or not, 24 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,549 to the point where people might well say 25 00:03:21,549 --> 00:03:22,898 they can't properly judge it 26 00:03:22,898 --> 00:03:25,857 because it's been a profit-making enterprise 27 00:03:25,857 --> 00:03:27,424 to tell the story? 28 00:03:27,424 --> 00:03:29,426 We didn't write the book. 29 00:03:29,426 --> 00:03:30,775 But are you not involved in the profits 30 00:03:30,775 --> 00:03:32,299 of the book in some way? 31 00:03:32,299 --> 00:03:33,865 We're involved with 32 00:03:33,865 --> 00:03:38,653 the author, Jay Anson, on profits. 33 00:03:38,653 --> 00:03:41,395 There is also-- 34 00:03:41,395 --> 00:03:46,617 We've been accused on occasion of fabricating a hoax. 35 00:03:46,617 --> 00:03:50,882 And it's very hard to live a lie. 36 00:03:50,882 --> 00:03:54,843 To daily come up against people who point a finger and say, 37 00:03:54,843 --> 00:03:56,627 "This can't be. 38 00:03:56,627 --> 00:03:59,935 "You went and you bought this house 39 00:03:59,935 --> 00:04:01,502 "just to make a book, 40 00:04:01,502 --> 00:04:04,983 "to take your children and to put them into this 41 00:04:04,983 --> 00:04:07,682 "and to stand them up in front of the public 42 00:04:07,682 --> 00:04:09,466 "and let the public ridicule them 43 00:04:09,466 --> 00:04:12,730 for the rest of their lives for a few dollars." No. 44 00:04:18,780 --> 00:04:21,826 Our parents sold us out for $275 a head 45 00:04:21,826 --> 00:04:25,787 for the children to be depicted in the film. 46 00:04:25,787 --> 00:04:29,617 George became obsessed with this moneymaking venture 47 00:04:29,617 --> 00:04:32,489 from this Amityville story. 48 00:04:32,489 --> 00:04:36,928 And he felt that it was fine to add fiction to it. 49 00:04:38,365 --> 00:04:40,454 But I know what happened. 50 00:04:40,454 --> 00:04:42,412 You don't get to play it off like 51 00:04:42,412 --> 00:04:46,416 you were a hero to the family 52 00:04:46,416 --> 00:04:49,289 when you're a perpetrator. 53 00:04:59,473 --> 00:05:04,129 In my closet, there was a paneling 54 00:05:04,129 --> 00:05:09,831 that revealed an area behind the wall. 55 00:05:09,831 --> 00:05:12,877 That would have been where Ronald DeFeo hid 56 00:05:12,877 --> 00:05:18,622 the things that he was trying to hide from his parents. 57 00:05:18,622 --> 00:05:23,627 Looking in there, there was two bags of capsules, 58 00:05:23,627 --> 00:05:26,543 pills. 59 00:05:26,543 --> 00:05:28,763 Exactly what kind they were, 60 00:05:28,763 --> 00:05:30,373 I didn't find out 61 00:05:30,373 --> 00:05:36,379 until questioning George way later in life. 62 00:05:36,379 --> 00:05:39,164 And he was really surprised that I remembered. 63 00:05:39,164 --> 00:05:41,036 He said they were quaaludes. 64 00:05:44,039 --> 00:05:46,824 So now, I don't know how quaaludes-- 65 00:05:46,824 --> 00:05:48,652 I've never taken them, so I don't know exactly 66 00:05:48,652 --> 00:05:50,654 how they'd react on the body-- 67 00:05:50,654 --> 00:05:52,569 but I do know this: 68 00:05:52,569 --> 00:05:56,747 George had a very different change in his demeanor... 69 00:06:00,185 --> 00:06:03,406 ...where he no longer went into work, 70 00:06:03,406 --> 00:06:07,932 he no longer was doing personal care. 71 00:06:07,932 --> 00:06:10,674 He became obsessed with just sitting around the fire 72 00:06:10,674 --> 00:06:14,069 and obsessed with his boats and his boathouse. 73 00:06:14,069 --> 00:06:17,420 And so to me, that sounds like a drug binge. 74 00:06:18,943 --> 00:06:21,990 Mama! 75 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:25,036 Oh, mama! Mama! 76 00:06:43,881 --> 00:06:46,754 We were going to do a sequel 77 00:06:46,754 --> 00:06:49,147 to The Amityville Horror. 78 00:06:49,147 --> 00:06:50,497 We're going to do a second book, 79 00:06:50,497 --> 00:06:52,890 absolutely non-fiction. 80 00:06:52,890 --> 00:06:56,633 We spent the money that we made from the first book 81 00:06:56,633 --> 00:07:00,898 and from the movie to hire the writer John Jones. 82 00:07:00,898 --> 00:07:03,901 And then subsequently go back and interview 83 00:07:03,901 --> 00:07:05,642 all the other people that had helped us 84 00:07:05,642 --> 00:07:08,602 and had been involved with us 85 00:07:08,602 --> 00:07:10,952 while we were in the house and afterwards, 86 00:07:10,952 --> 00:07:13,694 telling their stories. 87 00:07:13,694 --> 00:07:15,783 George hired a ghostwriter 88 00:07:15,783 --> 00:07:16,914 for the second book. 89 00:07:16,914 --> 00:07:18,829 And he wanted me to come out 90 00:07:18,829 --> 00:07:22,093 and help with all of that. 91 00:07:22,093 --> 00:07:25,053 And that's when I moved out to San Diego. 92 00:07:30,014 --> 00:07:33,104 George and Kathy wanted my recollections 93 00:07:33,104 --> 00:07:36,847 of all these things that had transpired. 94 00:07:36,847 --> 00:07:39,894 I actually went out to California. 95 00:07:39,894 --> 00:07:41,765 It turns out, 96 00:07:41,765 --> 00:07:43,767 George seemed to think that 97 00:07:43,767 --> 00:07:45,987 whatever type of entity was in the house 98 00:07:45,987 --> 00:07:47,771 followed them to California. 99 00:07:47,771 --> 00:07:50,165 And he said to me, "Well, when we were on the plane 100 00:07:50,165 --> 00:07:52,907 "going to San Diego, Missy was sitting there 101 00:07:52,907 --> 00:07:55,083 "and said, 'Oh, look, Jody is on the wing.'" 102 00:08:02,177 --> 00:08:07,661 Missy had a very high degree of sensitivity. 103 00:08:07,661 --> 00:08:11,099 She truly believed that they were little playmates 104 00:08:11,099 --> 00:08:13,797 that were there. 105 00:08:13,797 --> 00:08:15,886 It was--it was frightening. 106 00:08:15,886 --> 00:08:21,022 It was very, very, very, very frightening. 107 00:08:23,938 --> 00:08:26,767 The Warrens became a part of our lives. 108 00:08:26,767 --> 00:08:28,986 They'd visit us out in-- out in California 109 00:08:28,986 --> 00:08:31,032 when we were living there. 110 00:08:31,032 --> 00:08:33,687 And the Warrens started testing us kids 111 00:08:33,687 --> 00:08:36,994 for psychic abilities. 112 00:08:40,041 --> 00:08:44,175 We were walking alone with the children. 113 00:08:44,175 --> 00:08:49,006 And those innocent little kids were relating to us 114 00:08:49,006 --> 00:08:52,140 without us asking questions 115 00:08:52,140 --> 00:08:56,231 about things that occurred to them in that house. 116 00:09:02,716 --> 00:09:04,021 I remember Father Ray 117 00:09:04,021 --> 00:09:07,198 coming to California one time. 118 00:09:07,198 --> 00:09:09,897 It was Father Ray that suggested that we move out of 119 00:09:09,897 --> 00:09:12,595 the Amityville house. 120 00:09:12,595 --> 00:09:14,858 I felt safe around him. 121 00:09:14,858 --> 00:09:17,818 I remember I just ran to him and jumped at him 122 00:09:17,818 --> 00:09:21,735 and he picked me up and I--I just wept. 123 00:09:21,735 --> 00:09:26,304 I remember George asking later, "Why'd you cry?" 124 00:09:26,304 --> 00:09:28,132 I did ask Father Ray, 125 00:09:28,132 --> 00:09:31,701 "Did you hear a disembodied voice 126 00:09:31,701 --> 00:09:33,877 "telling you to get out? 127 00:09:33,877 --> 00:09:37,011 "Did you feel something smack you in the face? 128 00:09:37,011 --> 00:09:38,360 Did that happen?" 129 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,102 And he said "Yes, that did happen. 130 00:09:41,102 --> 00:09:42,625 That's accurate." 131 00:09:42,625 --> 00:09:44,627 Get out. 132 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,065 Get out! 133 00:09:48,065 --> 00:09:50,067 I vaguely remember it. 134 00:09:50,067 --> 00:09:52,287 I remember James Brolin, that's the main thing, 135 00:09:52,287 --> 00:09:55,638 and flies or something like that. 136 00:09:55,638 --> 00:09:57,727 Well, it was a haunted house movie. 137 00:09:57,727 --> 00:10:01,296 So for me, it's how well is it done? 138 00:10:04,212 --> 00:10:09,260 Haunted house movies, they began in France. 139 00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:13,917 I guess the earliest was George Méliès, 140 00:10:13,917 --> 00:10:16,354 1890s, 141 00:10:16,354 --> 00:10:20,881 and they've always been with us. 142 00:10:20,881 --> 00:10:23,231 It's always the same kind of basic story. 143 00:10:23,231 --> 00:10:25,189 House is haunted. 144 00:10:25,189 --> 00:10:27,191 People come in. 145 00:10:27,191 --> 00:10:29,019 They get terrorized. 146 00:10:29,019 --> 00:10:31,413 They don't leave like normal people would, 147 00:10:31,413 --> 00:10:33,241 they stay like movie people do. 148 00:10:37,332 --> 00:10:41,162 Horror is a great allegorical genre. 149 00:10:43,730 --> 00:10:46,907 Everybody is afraid in the entire world. 150 00:10:46,907 --> 00:10:48,386 We're born afraid. 151 00:10:51,302 --> 00:10:53,783 We are afraid of the same things. 152 00:10:53,783 --> 00:10:55,959 It's a universal feeling. 153 00:10:58,005 --> 00:11:02,139 Humor changes sometimes from country to country. 154 00:11:02,139 --> 00:11:03,837 The horror never changes. 155 00:11:03,837 --> 00:11:07,971 It's a powerful medium when it's done right. 156 00:11:15,718 --> 00:11:19,374 Part of where the title Get Out came from, 157 00:11:19,374 --> 00:11:22,116 this goes back to the old Eddie Murphy routine. 158 00:11:22,116 --> 00:11:23,857 In The Amityville Horror, the ghost told them 159 00:11:23,857 --> 00:11:25,206 to get out the house. 160 00:11:25,206 --> 00:11:26,947 White people stayed in there. 161 00:11:26,947 --> 00:11:29,863 Now that's a hint and a half for your ass. 162 00:11:29,863 --> 00:11:31,255 A ghost say get the fuck out, 163 00:11:31,255 --> 00:11:33,475 I would just tip the fuck out the door. 164 00:11:33,475 --> 00:11:36,826 And he did this Amityville bit of like, "Get out." 165 00:11:36,826 --> 00:11:38,349 We got a chandelier hanging up here, 166 00:11:38,349 --> 00:11:41,135 kids outside playing, it's a beautiful neighborhood. 167 00:11:41,135 --> 00:11:42,136 We ain't got nothing to worry-- I really love-- 168 00:11:42,136 --> 00:11:43,398 this is really nice-- 169 00:11:43,398 --> 00:11:45,400 "Get out." Too bad we can't stay, baby. 170 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,847 I'm wondering if you ever saw 171 00:11:57,847 --> 00:11:59,370 Amityville II: The Possession? 172 00:11:59,370 --> 00:12:02,199 Please no, please. 173 00:12:02,199 --> 00:12:04,854 Please, please. 174 00:12:04,854 --> 00:12:06,203 No, life's too short for some of this. 175 00:12:06,203 --> 00:12:09,032 Now, come on. 176 00:12:37,974 --> 00:12:40,542 I guess the light's changing, right? 177 00:12:40,542 --> 00:12:41,891 Let me know when you're ready. 178 00:12:41,891 --> 00:12:43,893 I'm gonna just stick this back there. 179 00:12:43,893 --> 00:12:46,069 Sound is speeding. 180 00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:48,463 Diane Franklin interview, take one. 181 00:12:48,463 --> 00:12:50,813 - It's changing, right? - Yep. 182 00:12:50,813 --> 00:12:51,771 Thank you. 183 00:12:55,905 --> 00:12:57,472 My name is Diane Franklin. 184 00:12:57,472 --> 00:12:59,953 And I was the actress who played the daughter 185 00:12:59,953 --> 00:13:02,477 in the film Amityville II: The Possession. 186 00:13:04,218 --> 00:13:07,482 The film is about a young family 187 00:13:07,482 --> 00:13:09,266 that moves to the suburbs 188 00:13:09,266 --> 00:13:11,138 trying to start a new life. 189 00:13:11,138 --> 00:13:13,401 I played Patricia Montelli, 190 00:13:13,401 --> 00:13:16,491 based on Dawn DeFeo. 191 00:13:16,491 --> 00:13:18,232 The minute they come into the house, 192 00:13:18,232 --> 00:13:21,975 there is an energy that is not normal. 193 00:13:21,975 --> 00:13:23,150 Take off your nightgown. 194 00:13:26,588 --> 00:13:27,894 There. 195 00:13:27,894 --> 00:13:30,113 And with that story, 196 00:13:30,113 --> 00:13:32,072 I don't think anyone 197 00:13:32,072 --> 00:13:36,424 has tackled the subject of incest that real. 198 00:13:36,424 --> 00:13:40,123 The stories of the brother who takes on this energy, 199 00:13:40,123 --> 00:13:44,519 taking on the poison of the family and the household. 200 00:13:47,957 --> 00:13:50,960 She sees this monster about to shoot her 201 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,268 and she believes he won't shoot me, he loves me. 202 00:13:54,268 --> 00:13:55,312 What are you doing? 203 00:13:58,881 --> 00:14:00,230 And if you just look from where you are 204 00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:03,146 and just look at my hand, it's out of the shot. 205 00:14:03,146 --> 00:14:05,148 - So look out the window again. - Right. 206 00:14:05,148 --> 00:14:06,889 And just turn to look at my hand. 207 00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:07,847 Just keep it there. 208 00:14:10,023 --> 00:14:12,112 Okay, and then walk to you. 209 00:14:12,112 --> 00:14:13,853 And then just walk towards me. 210 00:14:15,419 --> 00:14:17,160 Because of Amityville Horror, 211 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,597 I don't believe I'll ever get out of prison. 212 00:14:19,597 --> 00:14:22,252 You know, they made a monster out of me. 213 00:14:22,252 --> 00:14:23,906 And the public is terrified of me 214 00:14:23,906 --> 00:14:26,343 and they don't want me back out on the street. 215 00:14:31,174 --> 00:14:34,003 I spent the years 2004 to 2007 216 00:14:34,003 --> 00:14:38,007 in prison with Ronnie DeFeo. 217 00:14:38,007 --> 00:14:40,531 In prison, they show a lot of movies. 218 00:14:40,531 --> 00:14:43,404 But they never showed any of the Amityville Horror movies 219 00:14:43,404 --> 00:14:46,189 in Green Haven because Ronnie was there. 220 00:14:46,189 --> 00:14:48,496 And Ronnie would have made a big old stink 221 00:14:48,496 --> 00:14:51,978 about how showing the movie would put him in danger. 222 00:14:55,068 --> 00:14:58,941 He also blamed them for his parole problems. 223 00:14:58,941 --> 00:15:00,987 An Amityville Horror movie came out at the same time 224 00:15:00,987 --> 00:15:02,684 as his parole hearing. 225 00:15:02,684 --> 00:15:04,468 And he claimed that this made it 226 00:15:04,468 --> 00:15:06,993 absolutely impossible for him to get a fair hearing. 227 00:15:06,993 --> 00:15:10,300 And that's why he was denied parole. 228 00:15:14,087 --> 00:15:15,958 It's all because of those fucking movies, 229 00:15:15,958 --> 00:15:19,179 not because he had killed six people. 230 00:15:19,179 --> 00:15:20,615 You want me to look out the window first 231 00:15:20,615 --> 00:15:22,399 and look at Neil's hand and then walk into Neil. 232 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:23,618 When he first told me 233 00:15:23,618 --> 00:15:26,012 that the mob rubbed out his family, 234 00:15:26,012 --> 00:15:29,363 I of course nodded and said, "Sorry that happened." 235 00:15:29,363 --> 00:15:31,974 It took about a little over a year 236 00:15:31,974 --> 00:15:33,541 for him to start telling me a different story. 237 00:15:33,541 --> 00:15:35,238 And go. 238 00:15:35,238 --> 00:15:37,240 Ronnie talked to me in a hushed voice 239 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,548 and he said, "You know, it's really fucked up. 240 00:15:40,548 --> 00:15:43,377 "My sister, Dawn, 241 00:15:43,377 --> 00:15:45,161 "murdered my family. 242 00:15:45,161 --> 00:15:47,729 "The only way I survived was by 243 00:15:47,729 --> 00:15:50,079 "taking the gun away and shooting her. 244 00:15:50,079 --> 00:15:51,559 "It was the worst thing I ever did. 245 00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:52,603 It was horrible." 246 00:15:54,649 --> 00:15:57,086 I heard a roar. You know, it was a gunshot. 247 00:15:57,086 --> 00:15:59,088 It was loud. 248 00:15:59,088 --> 00:16:02,352 I soon entered my father's room. 249 00:16:02,352 --> 00:16:07,357 I pushed the light button on the wall there. 250 00:16:07,357 --> 00:16:09,794 I saw a hole in my father's back--one hole. 251 00:16:09,794 --> 00:16:11,622 I ran across the hallway, right? 252 00:16:11,622 --> 00:16:14,103 And I saw my little sister there, 253 00:16:14,103 --> 00:16:16,366 you know. 254 00:16:16,366 --> 00:16:18,455 I started really getting crazy there, you know. 255 00:16:18,455 --> 00:16:21,502 I saw her--with her head, you know-- 256 00:16:21,502 --> 00:16:23,069 blood running down the side of her head. 257 00:16:23,069 --> 00:16:24,635 I ran upstairs then. 258 00:16:24,635 --> 00:16:27,725 The only one alive in the house was my sister. 259 00:16:27,725 --> 00:16:29,466 I went off. 260 00:16:29,466 --> 00:16:31,164 I threw her across the room. 261 00:16:31,164 --> 00:16:33,253 She went flying, landed in the bed on her stomach. 262 00:16:33,253 --> 00:16:34,602 That's when I grabbed the rifle. 263 00:16:34,602 --> 00:16:37,039 It was all one big motion. 264 00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:38,345 I--I killed her. 265 00:16:38,345 --> 00:16:41,522 I shot my sister in the head. 266 00:16:41,522 --> 00:16:43,132 Like I say, I just lost it. 267 00:16:43,132 --> 00:16:44,699 It just happened so quick, I lost it. 268 00:16:52,750 --> 00:16:57,146 Over the years, Ron DeFeo had several versions of 269 00:16:57,146 --> 00:17:00,715 how his sister, Dawn, was one of the shooters. 270 00:17:00,715 --> 00:17:03,152 And this story changed over the decades. 271 00:17:03,152 --> 00:17:06,677 It wasn't just one "Dawn was involved" story. 272 00:17:06,677 --> 00:17:09,115 My father writes in his book that 273 00:17:09,115 --> 00:17:11,160 he characterizes the accusation that 274 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,598 Dawn was one of the killers as preposterous. 275 00:17:26,610 --> 00:17:29,526 He thought that it was unlikely that 276 00:17:29,526 --> 00:17:34,096 a young woman who had no known experience with firearms 277 00:17:34,096 --> 00:17:37,360 would be able to so expertly move from room to room 278 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:40,581 and in close range, with just a shot or two, 279 00:17:40,581 --> 00:17:42,409 kill her siblings. 280 00:17:42,409 --> 00:17:46,152 So my father did not believe the "Dawn is involved" story. 281 00:17:48,328 --> 00:17:50,373 When I heard him accuse Dawn 282 00:17:50,373 --> 00:17:51,809 of being part of the murders, 283 00:17:51,809 --> 00:17:54,377 I was just astounded. 284 00:17:54,377 --> 00:17:56,640 And I thought, "How dare you?" 285 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,208 She did not have that in her heart. 286 00:17:59,208 --> 00:18:01,819 She loved her parents. She loved her siblings. 287 00:18:04,344 --> 00:18:06,563 He was just trying to deflect, I think. 288 00:18:06,563 --> 00:18:10,219 Yeah, I just knew that he was full of shit. 289 00:18:10,219 --> 00:18:13,440 I read about the sequel, The Possession. 290 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,790 I was so incensed. And I'm trying to remember now. 291 00:18:15,790 --> 00:18:17,226 I'm pretty sure that was the one where 292 00:18:17,226 --> 00:18:19,141 they tried to now introduce the idea that 293 00:18:19,141 --> 00:18:20,925 there might have been some incest. 294 00:18:20,925 --> 00:18:23,276 And I said this is absolutely now obscene. 295 00:18:23,276 --> 00:18:27,323 They want to make a movie about whatever that's not true, 296 00:18:27,323 --> 00:18:28,803 you know, call it something else even. 297 00:18:28,803 --> 00:18:30,544 At that point, it's really so exploitative. 298 00:18:46,255 --> 00:18:48,431 The Possession shows the ways in which that story 299 00:18:48,431 --> 00:18:51,608 got out of the Lutz's hands. 300 00:18:51,608 --> 00:18:54,176 The sequel wildly fabricates things 301 00:18:54,176 --> 00:18:57,353 because that's what we do with stories like this. 302 00:18:57,353 --> 00:19:00,182 You can't tell the story in a strictly factual way 303 00:19:00,182 --> 00:19:02,271 because no one--no one really wants to see that. 304 00:19:02,271 --> 00:19:03,794 What was in this house? 305 00:19:03,794 --> 00:19:05,622 No. 306 00:19:05,622 --> 00:19:07,581 What evil could drive their son to madness 307 00:19:07,581 --> 00:19:09,583 and destroy everything and everyone he loved? 308 00:19:09,583 --> 00:19:11,324 Mommy! 309 00:19:11,324 --> 00:19:12,716 Dino De Laurentiis put out a movie called 310 00:19:12,716 --> 00:19:14,457 Amityville Horror II, 311 00:19:14,457 --> 00:19:16,285 which they eventually changed to Amityville II 312 00:19:16,285 --> 00:19:17,765 and did it without our permission. 313 00:19:17,765 --> 00:19:21,812 Amityville II: The Possession. 314 00:19:21,812 --> 00:19:25,555 And that became a 12, 13-year lawsuit. 315 00:19:25,555 --> 00:19:26,861 So even if you have the rights, 316 00:19:26,861 --> 00:19:28,689 even if you're trying to do this 317 00:19:28,689 --> 00:19:30,473 the best way you possibly can 318 00:19:30,473 --> 00:19:32,997 and fix the stuff that's been wrong or been said wrong, 319 00:19:32,997 --> 00:19:35,348 things will come along and keep you from doing that. 320 00:19:50,493 --> 00:19:53,366 I remember as a kid being in school 321 00:19:53,366 --> 00:19:56,238 and we were asked what our parents do for a living. 322 00:19:56,238 --> 00:19:58,675 I didn't even know what they did for a living. 323 00:19:58,675 --> 00:20:00,329 I remember asking George. 324 00:20:00,329 --> 00:20:01,678 And he said "I'm a writer." 325 00:20:01,678 --> 00:20:03,593 And I said, "What do you write about?" 326 00:20:03,593 --> 00:20:06,248 And he said, "Things that happened." 327 00:20:06,248 --> 00:20:07,684 And that was where he left it. 328 00:20:07,684 --> 00:20:12,254 Amityville became George's whole project. 329 00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:13,516 It was his business. 330 00:20:13,516 --> 00:20:15,605 He kept the publicity up. 331 00:20:15,605 --> 00:20:17,259 That was his way of working. 332 00:20:17,259 --> 00:20:19,783 He supported his family with Amityville. 333 00:20:21,959 --> 00:20:23,700 The progression that George went through 334 00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:26,964 was like, very obsessive 335 00:20:26,964 --> 00:20:29,663 of the notoriety 336 00:20:29,663 --> 00:20:33,406 and getting out there and his public image. 337 00:20:33,406 --> 00:20:35,495 Behind closed doors, he was a very different guy 338 00:20:35,495 --> 00:20:39,716 than what he was portraying publicly. 339 00:20:39,716 --> 00:20:42,763 I asked Kathy a couple of times about the children. 340 00:20:42,763 --> 00:20:46,810 And she told me that she was trying to 341 00:20:46,810 --> 00:20:50,945 shelter them from everything that was going on. 342 00:20:50,945 --> 00:20:52,729 But I didn't think, at that point, 343 00:20:52,729 --> 00:20:54,557 they were being sheltered. 344 00:20:54,557 --> 00:20:56,603 It was just too public. 345 00:20:56,603 --> 00:20:58,387 And when it happens to a family, 346 00:20:58,387 --> 00:21:01,434 usually they close the door and they don't talk about it. 347 00:21:01,434 --> 00:21:03,523 Yeah. 348 00:21:03,523 --> 00:21:06,090 And unless these things are talked about, 349 00:21:06,090 --> 00:21:08,745 they'll never be understood. 350 00:21:08,745 --> 00:21:10,791 When you would talk to the family and the kids 351 00:21:10,791 --> 00:21:14,055 and I would ask them questions, 352 00:21:14,055 --> 00:21:16,753 they would not go, "Well, um--" 353 00:21:16,753 --> 00:21:18,451 They'd have the answer right now, 354 00:21:18,451 --> 00:21:21,323 like they'd been schooled. 355 00:21:21,323 --> 00:21:23,325 I listened to James Brolin talk 356 00:21:23,325 --> 00:21:24,718 about how he met the kids 357 00:21:24,718 --> 00:21:27,721 and they sounded like they were coached. 358 00:21:27,721 --> 00:21:30,114 We were in a situation where 359 00:21:30,114 --> 00:21:31,986 if we weren't on our best behavior, 360 00:21:31,986 --> 00:21:33,901 we were gonna get the shit knocked out of us 361 00:21:33,901 --> 00:21:35,816 when we got home. 362 00:21:35,816 --> 00:21:37,948 So to say that we were coached, 363 00:21:37,948 --> 00:21:40,429 the guy doesn't know what we were going through. 364 00:21:40,429 --> 00:21:42,344 Ooh, "big star." 365 00:21:42,344 --> 00:21:44,781 Okay, so you made your name off of that movie. 366 00:21:44,781 --> 00:21:46,827 You didn't live it. 367 00:21:47,697 --> 00:21:51,353 George was a former Marine, a black belt in jujitsu. 368 00:21:51,353 --> 00:21:53,442 I had no defense against him. 369 00:22:04,671 --> 00:22:07,369 So George believed that, 370 00:22:07,369 --> 00:22:10,067 with my mind, I could make him ill... 371 00:22:12,418 --> 00:22:15,464 even to the point where... 372 00:22:17,553 --> 00:22:19,120 he thought he was gonna die. 373 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,775 And he came in and he started beating the shit out of me 374 00:22:21,775 --> 00:22:25,344 for my thoughts. 375 00:22:27,084 --> 00:22:29,391 Killing him through telepathy was just 376 00:22:29,391 --> 00:22:32,046 so fucking fucked up, man. 377 00:22:36,137 --> 00:22:38,574 And I really didn't plan on talking about that. 378 00:22:38,574 --> 00:22:40,881 I need a minute, man. 379 00:22:45,494 --> 00:22:47,366 Holy fuck. 380 00:22:54,068 --> 00:22:57,811 If the Warrens found that Christopher, in a sense, 381 00:22:57,811 --> 00:23:00,030 has some psychic ability, 382 00:23:00,030 --> 00:23:03,643 I can see where one step could lead to another. 383 00:23:03,643 --> 00:23:05,993 Because George, he was afraid that 384 00:23:05,993 --> 00:23:08,474 Christopher took the evil with him, 385 00:23:08,474 --> 00:23:10,606 was possessed by the evil. 386 00:23:12,565 --> 00:23:17,004 George was kind of constantly haunted. 387 00:23:17,004 --> 00:23:19,006 He would hear voices. 388 00:23:19,006 --> 00:23:21,922 We would be driving somewhere 389 00:23:21,922 --> 00:23:24,881 and he would turn around while he was driving 390 00:23:24,881 --> 00:23:29,059 and yell at something in the back of the car. 391 00:23:29,059 --> 00:23:31,584 He would be sitting in the room, 392 00:23:31,584 --> 00:23:34,543 and all of a sudden, 393 00:23:34,543 --> 00:23:38,112 he'd get up and start screaming at something... 394 00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:44,074 telling these spirits or whatever that was haunting him 395 00:23:44,074 --> 00:23:49,036 to go away, to not bother him. 396 00:23:49,036 --> 00:23:51,125 It gets to the point where you're convinced that 397 00:23:51,125 --> 00:23:54,563 there is evil, there is something there. 398 00:23:56,652 --> 00:24:00,264 It kind of felt like George was acting possessed. 399 00:24:05,487 --> 00:24:09,491 I had found out I was pregnant with my first child. 400 00:24:09,491 --> 00:24:11,928 And I didn't want my unborn child 401 00:24:11,928 --> 00:24:14,801 to have to experience anything like that. 402 00:24:14,801 --> 00:24:17,194 I was just frightened by it. 403 00:24:17,194 --> 00:24:20,502 I went back home to Brooklyn. 404 00:24:20,502 --> 00:24:23,505 I don't want anything to do with Amityville at all. 405 00:24:23,505 --> 00:24:25,725 I don't want anything to do with the Lutzes. 406 00:24:25,725 --> 00:24:30,164 And just--I never contacted 407 00:24:30,164 --> 00:24:32,514 George and Kathy again after that. 408 00:24:47,964 --> 00:24:49,531 Book number two 409 00:24:49,531 --> 00:24:51,794 that he authorized to have written, 410 00:24:51,794 --> 00:24:55,581 it talks about how he had to go through an exorcism. 411 00:25:07,244 --> 00:25:08,811 In London, England, 412 00:25:08,811 --> 00:25:10,683 the Archbishop of Canterbury's exorcist, 413 00:25:10,683 --> 00:25:13,207 Reverend Neil Smith, 414 00:25:13,207 --> 00:25:16,558 he performed for us what some people would call an exorcism. 415 00:25:16,558 --> 00:25:18,734 I'd call it more of a blessing. 416 00:25:20,823 --> 00:25:22,303 But it was a rite of separation 417 00:25:22,303 --> 00:25:24,261 in the Anglican church. 418 00:25:24,261 --> 00:25:26,350 And it was a separation from the house, 419 00:25:26,350 --> 00:25:28,918 from the effects of the house. 420 00:25:28,918 --> 00:25:30,354 He looked right at Kathy and said, 421 00:25:30,354 --> 00:25:32,705 "You're still affected by this." 422 00:25:32,705 --> 00:25:35,664 Beat down Satan under our feet 423 00:25:35,664 --> 00:25:40,843 and cause all evil forces to depart! 424 00:25:42,932 --> 00:25:44,717 I've personally observed exorcism 425 00:25:44,717 --> 00:25:49,373 both in Catholic circles and evangelical ones. 426 00:25:49,373 --> 00:25:53,987 Exorcism can function as a placebo ritual. 427 00:25:53,987 --> 00:25:56,729 And that that is then going to aid them 428 00:25:56,729 --> 00:25:58,644 in their feeling of recovery, 429 00:25:58,644 --> 00:26:01,385 and it actually will produce a physical sensation 430 00:26:01,385 --> 00:26:05,651 that could, in a way, improve their condition. 431 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:20,840 You don't need an exorcism 432 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,017 because you lived in a haunted house. 433 00:26:24,017 --> 00:26:27,629 You get an exorcism because you've got demons. 434 00:26:29,979 --> 00:26:31,633 What is it like to live with a man 435 00:26:31,633 --> 00:26:33,722 that's in need of an exorcism 436 00:26:33,722 --> 00:26:35,419 that's your stepdad 437 00:26:35,419 --> 00:26:38,031 who's treating you like a stepson 438 00:26:38,031 --> 00:26:40,903 that doesn't care who the hell you are? 439 00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:45,081 Christopher was always looking over his shoulder, 440 00:26:45,081 --> 00:26:47,693 like, "Oh, I better not say anything I'm not supposed to 441 00:26:47,693 --> 00:26:50,260 or I'll get in trouble." 442 00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:54,134 The thing that really struck me most was that 443 00:26:54,134 --> 00:26:57,006 Danny would just glare at George. 444 00:26:57,006 --> 00:27:01,097 He did not hide his feelings. 445 00:27:01,097 --> 00:27:03,099 If looks could kill, 446 00:27:03,099 --> 00:27:05,362 I mean, he would have had laser beams towards George 447 00:27:05,362 --> 00:27:08,931 coming out of both eyes. 448 00:27:08,931 --> 00:27:11,760 Kathy had, from what I know, 449 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,110 an abusive first husband. 450 00:27:14,110 --> 00:27:19,202 And it left her as a divorced woman in the '70s 451 00:27:19,202 --> 00:27:21,465 with three children, which, at that time, 452 00:27:21,465 --> 00:27:25,382 it was not exactly looked well upon. 453 00:27:25,382 --> 00:27:30,213 So when George came along and was willing to accept her 454 00:27:30,213 --> 00:27:33,303 and the children, it was wonderful, 455 00:27:33,303 --> 00:27:34,957 from her point of view, 456 00:27:34,957 --> 00:27:38,787 that somebody wanted to make them a family again. 457 00:27:38,787 --> 00:27:40,876 And she did everything she could 458 00:27:40,876 --> 00:27:42,748 to keep the marriage together 459 00:27:42,748 --> 00:27:45,272 because of the children. 460 00:27:47,404 --> 00:27:48,841 But you said you and Kathy 461 00:27:48,841 --> 00:27:50,930 weren't together anymore. 462 00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:55,717 And I was wondering if you can say when you divorced and why, 463 00:27:55,717 --> 00:27:57,414 if it had anything to do with this or-- 464 00:27:57,414 --> 00:28:00,156 The reasons we got divorced are really personal. 465 00:28:00,156 --> 00:28:05,771 We went in separate directions about exposing the house. 466 00:28:05,771 --> 00:28:07,990 As far as Kathy is concerned, 467 00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:11,907 her point is that she only wants to deal with 468 00:28:11,907 --> 00:28:13,169 the nonfiction part 469 00:28:13,169 --> 00:28:15,084 and does not believe that 470 00:28:15,084 --> 00:28:17,391 fiction also helps to do that. 471 00:28:20,829 --> 00:28:22,396 My mom became ill. 472 00:28:22,396 --> 00:28:26,487 She had a medical condition and she needed help. 473 00:28:26,487 --> 00:28:28,532 I took up residence with her, 474 00:28:28,532 --> 00:28:31,884 started to care for her until her death. 475 00:28:37,541 --> 00:28:38,978 That was when I decided to 476 00:28:38,978 --> 00:28:41,371 change my name back to Quaratino. 477 00:28:41,371 --> 00:28:45,288 And so for several years, I got to enjoy the anonymity 478 00:28:45,288 --> 00:28:48,770 of not being associated with that story anymore. 479 00:28:52,121 --> 00:28:55,037 And then one day, I got a phone call. 480 00:28:55,037 --> 00:28:57,083 And that's when I found out that 481 00:28:57,083 --> 00:28:58,954 George was getting ready to make another movie. 482 00:28:58,954 --> 00:29:00,564 Next year, there will finally be 483 00:29:00,564 --> 00:29:03,785 an authorized sequel of sorts, 484 00:29:03,785 --> 00:29:05,874 Amityville Horror: 25 Years Later. 485 00:29:05,874 --> 00:29:08,834 - Is it real? - Yes, it's in production now. 486 00:29:08,834 --> 00:29:11,097 And you're the first people I'm telling in the media. 487 00:29:11,097 --> 00:29:13,186 And then I find out that George's movie 488 00:29:13,186 --> 00:29:15,318 is gonna be about a Lutz son returning to the house 489 00:29:15,318 --> 00:29:17,016 25 years later, 490 00:29:17,016 --> 00:29:19,540 killing him through telepathy in the end of the movie. 491 00:29:19,540 --> 00:29:22,282 So I did whatever I could to, like, stop what he was doing. 492 00:29:25,241 --> 00:29:27,113 I took to the internet. 493 00:29:30,290 --> 00:29:33,075 AmityvilleHorror.com became available 494 00:29:33,075 --> 00:29:36,252 and I scooped it up. 495 00:29:36,252 --> 00:29:42,476 He sued me for what he said was a trademark violation. 496 00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:46,262 I can't say that what I had done actually stopped it, 497 00:29:46,262 --> 00:29:52,268 but I was making as much of a ruckus about it as I could. 498 00:29:52,268 --> 00:29:56,011 All in favor, sign up on my Facebook page 499 00:29:56,011 --> 00:30:00,276 and let's make history. 500 00:30:00,276 --> 00:30:02,148 Good night. 501 00:30:09,372 --> 00:30:13,289 I've made myself publicly available on social media 502 00:30:13,289 --> 00:30:15,944 for about a decade now. 503 00:30:15,944 --> 00:30:20,383 I'm just really amazed at the stories I hear from people 504 00:30:20,383 --> 00:30:22,995 that were greatly affected by it 505 00:30:22,995 --> 00:30:24,344 when it initially came out. 506 00:30:27,564 --> 00:30:32,265 People of my generation or even older that, like, 507 00:30:32,265 --> 00:30:36,008 this story really resonated with them. 508 00:30:36,008 --> 00:30:38,227 There's so many people in the paranormal field 509 00:30:38,227 --> 00:30:40,012 that I have met through the years, 510 00:30:40,012 --> 00:30:41,317 having gone to conferences, 511 00:30:41,317 --> 00:30:43,058 and I often ask people, 512 00:30:43,058 --> 00:30:45,234 "What's got you so interested in the paranormal?" 513 00:30:45,234 --> 00:30:47,541 And so many people have told me, 514 00:30:47,541 --> 00:30:49,499 you know, "When I was a kid, I saw your-- 515 00:30:49,499 --> 00:30:51,893 I saw the movie about your family." 516 00:30:57,986 --> 00:31:03,600 Enough about the story resonates as real. 517 00:31:08,388 --> 00:31:10,999 And that's why it continues on. 518 00:31:13,001 --> 00:31:14,916 Why is it you feel like people want to cling 519 00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:17,092 to this story? 520 00:31:17,092 --> 00:31:20,313 Partially because they have fantasies that they believe in 521 00:31:20,313 --> 00:31:22,706 and partially because there's money to be made. 522 00:31:24,534 --> 00:31:26,362 He holds the unique title of demonologist. 523 00:31:26,362 --> 00:31:27,711 She's a psychic. 524 00:31:27,711 --> 00:31:29,191 Together they just completed work as 525 00:31:29,191 --> 00:31:32,281 demonology advisors on the upcoming film 526 00:31:32,281 --> 00:31:34,501 Amityville II: The Possession. 527 00:31:34,501 --> 00:31:36,329 Please welcome Ed and Lorraine Warren. 528 00:31:38,635 --> 00:31:40,028 The Warrens, 529 00:31:40,028 --> 00:31:43,075 they made a career for themselves. 530 00:31:43,075 --> 00:31:44,467 They highlighted the fact that 531 00:31:44,467 --> 00:31:46,034 they were involved in our story. 532 00:31:46,034 --> 00:31:47,427 What's the most famous case 533 00:31:47,427 --> 00:31:49,211 you've ever been involved with? 534 00:31:49,211 --> 00:31:51,213 Well, I would have to say the Amityville Horror, 535 00:31:51,213 --> 00:31:53,389 since it's world renowned. 536 00:31:53,389 --> 00:31:56,523 Years later, I found out that they had been 537 00:31:56,523 --> 00:31:59,526 the creative consultant on multiple movies 538 00:31:59,526 --> 00:32:01,963 after the initial movie. 539 00:32:01,963 --> 00:32:05,967 And I didn't find that to be, like, genuine. 540 00:32:08,622 --> 00:32:09,971 When The Conjuring opened 541 00:32:09,971 --> 00:32:11,973 in theaters in 2013, 542 00:32:11,973 --> 00:32:13,627 it was a box-office hit 543 00:32:13,627 --> 00:32:17,457 that raked in $137 million in the U.S. 544 00:32:17,457 --> 00:32:20,242 and terrified audiences worldwide. 545 00:32:20,242 --> 00:32:22,505 This is as close to hell as I ever want to get. 546 00:32:26,161 --> 00:32:28,598 People would attach themselves to this 547 00:32:28,598 --> 00:32:31,079 in one way or another. 548 00:32:31,079 --> 00:32:34,256 Jay Anson, having been penned as the author, 549 00:32:34,256 --> 00:32:36,476 is the one that's making the big money on it. 550 00:32:36,476 --> 00:32:39,261 Last I know, he made, like, 16 million on it. 551 00:32:39,261 --> 00:32:40,697 16 million. 552 00:32:40,697 --> 00:32:42,699 My parents made, like, 400,000. 553 00:32:45,311 --> 00:32:48,096 Get out! 554 00:32:48,096 --> 00:32:49,619 It's a remake that's really worthy, 555 00:32:49,619 --> 00:32:51,099 simply because the original doesn't-- 556 00:32:51,099 --> 00:32:54,146 I don't believe, holds up after time. 557 00:32:54,146 --> 00:32:55,495 Kill them! 558 00:32:55,495 --> 00:32:57,671 The greatest haunted house story ever told. 559 00:33:00,021 --> 00:33:02,154 Catch them. 560 00:33:02,154 --> 00:33:04,330 Kill them. 561 00:33:04,330 --> 00:33:05,592 Catch 'em and you kill 'em. 562 00:33:05,592 --> 00:33:07,507 You catch 'em and you kill 'em. 563 00:33:07,507 --> 00:33:10,031 Ronnie DeFeo kept repeating this over and over. 564 00:33:10,031 --> 00:33:12,164 I've never seen anything like this. 565 00:33:12,164 --> 00:33:14,427 "How can I get a fair hearing when all they know 566 00:33:14,427 --> 00:33:18,213 is that I catch 'em and kill 'em?" 567 00:33:18,213 --> 00:33:20,563 He was angry at Hollywood. 568 00:33:20,563 --> 00:33:23,740 He claimed that he should have been compensated 569 00:33:23,740 --> 00:33:29,572 for his contribution to the Amityville Horror movies. 570 00:33:29,572 --> 00:33:32,488 The Amityville Horror really is supposed to be me. 571 00:33:32,488 --> 00:33:35,535 Because I'm the one that 572 00:33:35,535 --> 00:33:37,276 got convicted of killing my family. 573 00:33:37,276 --> 00:33:38,581 I'm the one they say did it. 574 00:33:38,581 --> 00:33:40,322 I'm the one that's supposed to be possessed. 575 00:33:42,716 --> 00:33:45,327 He had told me about the mob stuff, 576 00:33:45,327 --> 00:33:48,156 and then said Dawn killed the whole family. 577 00:33:48,156 --> 00:33:50,724 So I guess it's implied that 578 00:33:50,724 --> 00:33:53,292 he had acknowledged that the mafia story wasn't true. 579 00:33:56,295 --> 00:33:58,819 From what I understood, the father had 580 00:33:58,819 --> 00:34:01,300 legitimate connections with the mafia. 581 00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:04,694 But this did not spread to the son. 582 00:34:04,694 --> 00:34:06,609 The mob guys in the jail 583 00:34:06,609 --> 00:34:08,481 wouldn't have anything to do with him. 584 00:34:08,481 --> 00:34:10,700 I mean, they actively disliked him. 585 00:34:10,700 --> 00:34:13,094 They felt he was an embarrassment to them. 586 00:34:13,094 --> 00:34:15,488 I don't believe organized crime had anything to do with that. 587 00:34:15,488 --> 00:34:16,532 Anything. 588 00:34:16,532 --> 00:34:18,143 There were two major rules: 589 00:34:18,143 --> 00:34:19,666 you never killed a guy in his house 590 00:34:19,666 --> 00:34:21,755 and you never killed him in front of his family. 591 00:34:21,755 --> 00:34:25,193 That was the rule and you didn't break that rule. 592 00:34:25,193 --> 00:34:28,109 The horror itself is my family getting killed. 593 00:34:28,109 --> 00:34:30,459 I guess that's the only really tragedy here. 594 00:34:30,459 --> 00:34:34,724 Everything else... it's fantasy really. 595 00:34:35,812 --> 00:34:37,727 It's fiction. 596 00:34:47,172 --> 00:34:52,307 When Ronnie died in 2021, I felt really sad, 597 00:34:52,307 --> 00:34:56,137 which is kind of strange because he's a multi murderer. 598 00:34:56,137 --> 00:34:58,835 He hadn't been, like, the greatest guy I ever met. 599 00:34:58,835 --> 00:35:02,143 He was actually an oddity, if anything. 600 00:35:02,143 --> 00:35:03,753 And I was surprised that he died 601 00:35:03,753 --> 00:35:06,147 a little younger than I thought. 602 00:35:06,147 --> 00:35:09,803 But he had been using drugs his whole life, 603 00:35:09,803 --> 00:35:11,587 as a prisoner too. 604 00:35:11,587 --> 00:35:13,676 Also, of course, prison is a stressful place 605 00:35:13,676 --> 00:35:14,895 and it wears on you. 606 00:35:41,835 --> 00:35:46,361 My grandmother was the secretary to Father Ray. 607 00:35:47,232 --> 00:35:52,367 One of his annulment cases was George's first marriage. 608 00:35:52,367 --> 00:35:53,890 She really documented everything 609 00:35:53,890 --> 00:35:57,503 because she just had a bad intuition over time. 610 00:35:57,503 --> 00:36:00,288 And the intuition was just, there's something there, 611 00:36:00,288 --> 00:36:01,811 but I don't know what it is. 612 00:36:01,811 --> 00:36:04,988 I was married previously also to a Catholic. 613 00:36:04,988 --> 00:36:07,861 And as part of the annulment proceedings for that marriage, 614 00:36:07,861 --> 00:36:10,298 I was called down to the diocese office 615 00:36:10,298 --> 00:36:12,561 and interviewed. 616 00:36:12,561 --> 00:36:14,694 The annulment documents 617 00:36:14,694 --> 00:36:18,001 do reveal things about George's past 618 00:36:18,001 --> 00:36:20,787 and have never been released. 619 00:36:27,315 --> 00:36:29,839 Yeah, so the letter, um, 620 00:36:29,839 --> 00:36:32,886 from the therapist was quite interesting 621 00:36:32,886 --> 00:36:35,976 because of the fact that he has the perspective from both 622 00:36:35,976 --> 00:36:39,284 George and his first wife. 623 00:36:39,284 --> 00:36:40,850 And she defines her role as being 624 00:36:40,850 --> 00:36:43,331 a maid in his office and in his home. 625 00:36:43,331 --> 00:36:45,725 He never allowed me to open my mouth. 626 00:36:48,554 --> 00:36:51,252 Yeah. 627 00:36:51,252 --> 00:36:56,257 He'd proudly use terms as, "I got her trained," 628 00:36:56,257 --> 00:37:00,479 to defiantly state his position in their marriage. 629 00:37:01,436 --> 00:37:04,744 "His rigid expansive attitude appeared to conceal 630 00:37:04,744 --> 00:37:06,528 "a very frightened individual 631 00:37:06,528 --> 00:37:09,531 "who was most insecure concerning his role 632 00:37:09,531 --> 00:37:11,620 as a male and husband." 633 00:37:13,709 --> 00:37:16,364 George has effectively extorted money. 634 00:37:16,364 --> 00:37:18,540 She invested all of her savings, 635 00:37:18,540 --> 00:37:20,629 and he refused to allow her name 636 00:37:20,629 --> 00:37:24,894 to appear on the title of the house. 637 00:37:24,894 --> 00:37:27,897 This is a little uncomfortable to read. 638 00:37:30,509 --> 00:37:32,598 There is evidence that he abused her physically 639 00:37:32,598 --> 00:37:33,903 on several occasions. 640 00:37:33,903 --> 00:37:36,079 Apparently, she required medical assistance 641 00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:39,692 for injuries that were inflicted by George. 642 00:37:42,564 --> 00:37:45,524 The feedback from the medical expert, it says, 643 00:37:45,524 --> 00:37:47,787 "In this case, with the preparation 644 00:37:47,787 --> 00:37:50,920 "I am able to state with medical and moral certainty, 645 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,923 "that at the time of his marriage, 646 00:37:53,923 --> 00:37:55,882 "George Lutz was suffering from 647 00:37:55,882 --> 00:37:58,319 "a serious personality disorder. 648 00:37:58,319 --> 00:38:00,582 "This would appropriately be diagnosed as 649 00:38:00,582 --> 00:38:03,759 antisocial personality." 650 00:38:21,908 --> 00:38:24,606 "George Lutz was suffering from a serious 651 00:38:24,606 --> 00:38:27,348 "personality disorder. 652 00:38:27,348 --> 00:38:31,483 "His callousness and selfishness is typical 653 00:38:31,483 --> 00:38:33,528 "of the sociopathic 654 00:38:33,528 --> 00:38:35,922 or antisocial personality." 655 00:38:38,054 --> 00:38:41,623 I'm kind of mystified that somebody can be 656 00:38:41,623 --> 00:38:43,669 that much of a chameleon. 657 00:38:43,669 --> 00:38:48,891 I'm shocked that he hid it so well. 658 00:38:48,891 --> 00:38:50,545 I really am. 659 00:38:55,985 --> 00:38:58,553 Antisocial personality disorder 660 00:38:58,553 --> 00:39:01,034 is a diagnosis that tends to be given to people 661 00:39:01,034 --> 00:39:06,039 who have a blatant disregard for the rights of others. 662 00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:08,737 These are people who do not show empathy 663 00:39:08,737 --> 00:39:10,826 or remorse for other people. 664 00:39:10,826 --> 00:39:13,612 And they're oftentimes believed to be manipulative. 665 00:39:13,612 --> 00:39:15,918 So they might present differently 666 00:39:15,918 --> 00:39:19,922 or say different things or shift facts 667 00:39:19,922 --> 00:39:22,055 when they're talking to different people. 668 00:39:24,927 --> 00:39:28,017 In 2006, Dr. Hoge, a psychiatrist, 669 00:39:28,017 --> 00:39:31,151 interviewed Ronnie DeFeo to get a better understanding of 670 00:39:31,151 --> 00:39:33,196 how Ronnie DeFeo was presenting, 671 00:39:33,196 --> 00:39:35,590 how he was thinking about the crimes. 672 00:39:37,070 --> 00:39:40,160 He believed that Ronnie DeFeo was experiencing 673 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,901 an antisocial personality disorder, 674 00:39:41,901 --> 00:39:44,643 that he seems to be more manipulative. 675 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,139 Sometimes individuals try to 676 00:40:03,139 --> 00:40:07,883 give an excuse for violent behavior or abusive behavior. 677 00:40:07,883 --> 00:40:10,756 "The devil made me do it" or "I was possessed at the time." 678 00:40:10,756 --> 00:40:12,497 And sometimes these individuals will 679 00:40:12,497 --> 00:40:14,890 even undergo exorcisms, 680 00:40:14,890 --> 00:40:19,112 as in the case of the Lutz family stepfather. 681 00:40:19,112 --> 00:40:20,896 So that can be a little bit puzzling. 682 00:40:20,896 --> 00:40:23,551 How do we interpret that? 683 00:40:23,551 --> 00:40:25,988 Our only answer is that we're not totally sure. 684 00:40:38,914 --> 00:40:42,178 There was a tribe of Indians called the Shinnecocks, 685 00:40:42,178 --> 00:40:45,704 and they used this land as a sort of exposure pen. 686 00:40:45,704 --> 00:40:47,575 They put all the crazy people here, 687 00:40:47,575 --> 00:40:49,664 and they left them here to die. 688 00:40:49,664 --> 00:40:52,188 The Amityville Horror film 689 00:40:52,188 --> 00:40:53,886 is the first time in cinema 690 00:40:53,886 --> 00:40:57,846 where the Indian burial ground trope is used. 691 00:40:57,846 --> 00:40:59,587 That's why no one 692 00:40:59,587 --> 00:41:02,285 ever buried a human being out there. 693 00:41:02,285 --> 00:41:03,765 You are thinking of putting him out there. 694 00:41:03,765 --> 00:41:05,593 Don't deny the thought hadn't crossed your mind. 695 00:41:05,593 --> 00:41:07,769 The Indian burial ground trope-- 696 00:41:07,769 --> 00:41:09,684 I like to call it the IBG-- 697 00:41:09,684 --> 00:41:15,603 is the idea that if a place is built 698 00:41:15,603 --> 00:41:17,126 on an Indian burial ground, 699 00:41:17,126 --> 00:41:20,565 it is somehow more haunted or evil 700 00:41:20,565 --> 00:41:22,262 or is going to inspire 701 00:41:22,262 --> 00:41:25,961 something really dreadful to happen. 702 00:41:25,961 --> 00:41:31,793 And yes, the Shinnecock Nation exists on Long Island. 703 00:41:31,793 --> 00:41:35,971 They would venture to the area of the Amityville house 704 00:41:35,971 --> 00:41:38,191 for possibly hunting. 705 00:41:38,191 --> 00:41:40,802 But it wasn't really part of their traditional land. 706 00:41:45,764 --> 00:41:48,984 The Indian burial ground in movies 707 00:41:48,984 --> 00:41:51,552 is just such a cliché. 708 00:41:51,552 --> 00:41:55,556 But people love that shit. They eat it up. 709 00:41:55,556 --> 00:41:57,558 The site is supposed to be located on 710 00:41:57,558 --> 00:41:58,777 an Indian burial ground, 711 00:41:58,777 --> 00:42:00,213 and I believe they actually had to 712 00:42:00,213 --> 00:42:02,737 repel a few Indian attacks as they were building it. 713 00:42:02,737 --> 00:42:05,305 Why is it that the Indian burial ground 714 00:42:05,305 --> 00:42:07,873 is always what people claim? 715 00:42:07,873 --> 00:42:10,049 This was their burial ground. 716 00:42:10,049 --> 00:42:12,660 Is it the white settler guilt? 717 00:42:12,660 --> 00:42:14,183 Whose burial ground? 718 00:42:14,183 --> 00:42:15,968 Mi'kmaq Indians. 719 00:42:15,968 --> 00:42:20,233 Is it this idea that there has to be some kind of evil... 720 00:42:21,930 --> 00:42:26,369 to justify why we took this land? 721 00:42:30,896 --> 00:42:33,246 Even popular ghost shows 722 00:42:33,246 --> 00:42:36,031 and the paranormal hunters that go out, 723 00:42:36,031 --> 00:42:38,033 it's a very easy explanation, 724 00:42:38,033 --> 00:42:39,992 especially if you're in the areas 725 00:42:39,992 --> 00:42:43,082 that are associated with tribal people. 726 00:42:47,086 --> 00:42:48,348 Perhaps we can think about this as a way 727 00:42:48,348 --> 00:42:49,958 of dealing with the kind 728 00:42:49,958 --> 00:42:53,222 of repressed and unspoken complicity, 729 00:42:53,222 --> 00:42:54,397 especially in suburbia, 730 00:42:54,397 --> 00:42:56,878 as a way of trying to tease out 731 00:42:56,878 --> 00:42:59,838 some of the unspoken violence, 732 00:42:59,838 --> 00:43:02,841 the unspoken horror of American history itself. 733 00:43:30,825 --> 00:43:33,741 The fact that so many people wanted the story to be true 734 00:43:33,741 --> 00:43:36,091 or in fact believed the story to be true 735 00:43:36,091 --> 00:43:39,181 is much more revealing and is much more interesting 736 00:43:39,181 --> 00:43:40,922 than whether the story itself is true or not. 737 00:43:43,925 --> 00:43:49,191 What really happened is that we all joined in the story. 738 00:43:49,191 --> 00:43:54,153 It became something that is self-sustaining. 739 00:43:54,153 --> 00:43:58,287 It became kind of a feedback loop. 740 00:44:01,769 --> 00:44:04,380 You can come into a space you think is yours, 741 00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:06,165 but it has history. 742 00:44:06,165 --> 00:44:08,689 There's traces, there's trauma. 743 00:44:12,954 --> 00:44:15,000 Did this actually happen? 744 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,872 Maybe something did happen that was demonic. 745 00:44:17,872 --> 00:44:21,789 We still don't know how to reckon with historical trauma. 746 00:44:21,789 --> 00:44:24,966 It still rises up to battle with. 747 00:44:28,709 --> 00:44:30,189 If you think about buildings that have seen 748 00:44:30,189 --> 00:44:31,407 great violence or great suffering, 749 00:44:31,407 --> 00:44:32,974 you think to yourself, 750 00:44:32,974 --> 00:44:34,759 "Maybe they should be haunted." 751 00:44:34,759 --> 00:44:35,977 There should be something here 752 00:44:35,977 --> 00:44:37,892 because that way, it would mean that 753 00:44:37,892 --> 00:44:39,981 all of that pain and suffering hasn't been forgotten. 754 00:44:42,418 --> 00:44:45,030 She was shot in the head! 755 00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:47,989 I never thought it was gonna be the basis of 756 00:44:47,989 --> 00:44:51,732 an enduring story that we're still talking about 757 00:44:51,732 --> 00:44:53,342 nearly 50 years later. 758 00:44:53,342 --> 00:44:55,170 This has got to be the end. 759 00:44:55,170 --> 00:44:57,303 I don't understand why people-- 760 00:44:57,303 --> 00:44:59,827 I don't know why people are so interested in it. 761 00:44:59,827 --> 00:45:01,307 I guess because it's a ghost story 762 00:45:01,307 --> 00:45:03,352 and people love ghost stories 763 00:45:03,352 --> 00:45:05,180 and they want to believe they're real. 764 00:45:05,180 --> 00:45:07,966 You want to believe there's something beyond our lives, 765 00:45:07,966 --> 00:45:10,185 something that's beyond us. 766 00:45:10,185 --> 00:45:14,363 Everyone in the world that I've spoken to, 767 00:45:14,363 --> 00:45:18,280 if I mention it, know about this story. 768 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,544 They're fascinated by it. 769 00:45:21,544 --> 00:45:25,026 But the sad thing is that he killed everybody. 770 00:45:25,026 --> 00:45:29,161 No! No! No! 771 00:45:29,161 --> 00:45:30,205 No! 772 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,034 I think a lot of it's true 773 00:45:33,034 --> 00:45:34,862 and a lot of it's not. 774 00:45:34,862 --> 00:45:37,560 And I don't think there was a demon in the house doing it. 775 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,214 I think there's some people in this world 776 00:45:39,214 --> 00:45:41,869 are as evil as demons. 777 00:45:41,869 --> 00:45:46,395 I believe it's now been 32 movies 778 00:45:46,395 --> 00:45:49,529 that have attached the name Amityville to them 779 00:45:49,529 --> 00:45:54,534 to capitalize upon this crap that I went through as a kid. 780 00:45:54,534 --> 00:45:59,147 And none of those people give a shit what really happened. 781 00:45:59,147 --> 00:46:03,978 George was embroiled in one lawsuit after another. 782 00:46:03,978 --> 00:46:06,111 He had a lawsuit going with MGM 783 00:46:06,111 --> 00:46:09,201 over the 2005 remake. 784 00:46:09,201 --> 00:46:12,204 After that lawsuit was settled, 785 00:46:12,204 --> 00:46:15,555 May 6, 2006, 786 00:46:15,555 --> 00:46:18,036 George has a massive heart attack... 787 00:46:19,951 --> 00:46:21,953 and dies. 788 00:46:24,172 --> 00:46:26,479 Ronnie still haunts me. 789 00:46:26,479 --> 00:46:30,918 Maybe I had a shot at getting the truth out of him. 790 00:46:30,918 --> 00:46:32,485 I wanted to look him in the eye and say, 791 00:46:32,485 --> 00:46:34,922 "What went down?" 792 00:46:34,922 --> 00:46:37,838 But we'll probably never know. 793 00:46:37,838 --> 00:46:39,274 And that's a shame. 794 00:46:39,274 --> 00:46:43,191 I feel like Ronnie committed the murders alone. 795 00:46:43,191 --> 00:46:44,845 He's scum. 796 00:46:44,845 --> 00:46:46,847 And he's dead now and he's rotting in hell. 797 00:46:46,847 --> 00:46:48,849 And that's my feeling. 798 00:46:52,548 --> 00:46:55,073 No doubt George was a victim 799 00:46:55,073 --> 00:46:58,119 of the karma that he put out. 800 00:46:58,119 --> 00:47:00,121 "I'm gonna make a movie about my son 801 00:47:00,121 --> 00:47:02,384 killing me through telepathy." 802 00:47:04,299 --> 00:47:06,475 I'm not gonna tell the story about 803 00:47:06,475 --> 00:47:10,262 what happened the day that he did die. 804 00:47:10,262 --> 00:47:14,353 But that thing that he wanted in the movie? 805 00:47:14,353 --> 00:47:16,877 Careful what you wish for. 806 00:47:29,368 --> 00:47:32,023 The house will continue to be a time bomb... 807 00:47:34,634 --> 00:47:39,247 ticking away, ticking away. 808 00:47:39,247 --> 00:47:41,989 One fine day, someone will move into that house 809 00:47:41,989 --> 00:47:47,952 who have some of the qualities of young Ronald DeFeo Jr. 810 00:47:47,952 --> 00:47:51,129 and it'll start all over again. 811 00:48:12,411 --> 00:48:18,025 ♪ You were always Trying to mold me ♪ 812 00:48:18,025 --> 00:48:21,376 ♪ Mold me 813 00:48:21,376 --> 00:48:27,034 ♪ But I'm not made of clay 814 00:48:27,034 --> 00:48:30,516 ♪ Oh 815 00:48:30,516 --> 00:48:36,130 ♪ You were always Busy molding ♪ 816 00:48:36,130 --> 00:48:39,481 ♪ Molding 817 00:48:39,481 --> 00:48:45,096 ♪ Dating girls Half your age ♪ 818 00:48:51,972 --> 00:48:58,283 ♪ I know you like working With your hands ♪ 819 00:48:58,283 --> 00:49:03,331 ♪ But hands are for holding