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[music]
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[Operator] We're sorry,
you have reached the number
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that has been disconnected
or is no longer--
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[Tom] O.J., it's Tom again.
Can you to hear me?
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Hey, hang on the line,
I wanna talk to you.
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Okay. I'm still here.
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I'm just getting
a little interference here.
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You're going to break our
hearts, don't do this.
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That's okay. Listen,
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there's nothing
to be sorry about.
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My name is Tom Lang.
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I am a former LAPD homicide
detective of 29 years.
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[line trilling]
Hello, O.J.? You still there?
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He's thinking.
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I've been involved in
250 different homicides.
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One murder investigation
still bothers me.
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[Operator] 911 emergency.
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[Nicole] Yeah. Can you send
someone to my house?
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[Operator] Oh, okay. Is he the
sportscaster or whatever?
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[Nicole] Yeah.
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[Operator]
Is he threatening you?
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[Nicole]
Please send somebody over.
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[Tom] It's the double murder,
that occurred
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at 875 South Bundy.
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[Operator] Is he black, white
or Hispanic?
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[Nicole] Black.
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[Tom] I was the lead detective
in that case.
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The evidence led to one suspect
and that was O.J. Simpson.
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[Operator] He's back, okay,
what does he look like?
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[Nicole] He's O.J. Simpson.
I think you know his record.
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[Tom] The Hall of Fame,
NFL football player and actor.
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[Nicole] He just drove up again.
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[Operator]
What kind of car is he in?
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[Nicole] He's in a white Bronco.
But first of all,
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he broke the back door down--
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[Tom] In what has been referred
to as the trial of the century.
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O.J. was found not guilty
of killing his ex-wife,
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Nicole Brown Simpson,
and her friend Ron Goldman.
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- [Nicole] O.J.
- [Operator] O.J.
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Back then, we were gagged.
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We couldn't talk to anybody,
couldn't talk to the media,
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couldn't discuss the case
with anybody else.
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Victims had
their throat slashed.
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I'm not gagged now.
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All these years later,
I could tell a story,
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why it happened. The fact that
it shouldn't have happened.
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We've got the evidence
to show it.
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[Tom] Hang on the line.
I want to talk to you.
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- [O.J.] I'm here.
- [Tom] Okay, I'm still here.
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Just getting a little
interference here.
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Can you hear me?
O.J.? He's gone again.
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O.J., you there?
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[O.J.] Uh...
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[Tom] Get rid of the gun.
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[O.J.] Uh...
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[Tom]
Nobody's going to get hurt.
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Man to man, right?
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Listen, you've been a man
Listen, you've been a man
a
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Don't give in now.
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[Reporter] And there are reports
that blood stained clothes
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a
in Simpson's home.
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[Man] We can't jump the gun.
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We can't afford
to make a mistake.
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We are very meticulous
in what we do.
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You don't know the facts
of the case.
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This is where he parked the
Bronco, the night of the murder.
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A lot of things have changed
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approaching Bundy
where 875 used to be.
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[Reporter] An L.A. homicide
detective says
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O.J. Simpson's arrest
is imminent.
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Simpson trial was held
right here.
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[Reporter] It began early on the
morning of June 13th.
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Neighbors discovered
the bloody murder scene.
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He's shocked.
He's really grieving.
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He's upset.
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Mr. Simpson is a fugitive
of justice.
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I plead 100% not guilty.
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This is a trial about the man
that murdered my son.
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[Woman] Is a trail of blood from
[Woman] Is a trail of blood from
B
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and into the defendant's
very bedroom
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linked by the defendant's
white Ford Bronco.
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Get out of the way.
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[Man] You think O.J. had a bag
with the bloody clothes
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- and the knife?
- [Man] There!
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Have you ever heard
the term cover up?
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[Reporter]
Recognized around the world,
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first for speed
and athletic grace and now
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for a grisly,
gripping murder case.
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[Tom] Mr. Simpson, you have the
right to remain silent.
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If you give up the right
to remain silent,
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anything you say can
and will be used against you
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in a court of law.
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{\an8}Do you understand your rights?
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{\an8}[Tom] Are there any questions
about that?
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{\an8}[Tom] Okay. You going to speak
up audibly.
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[Tom] You can never have too
much evidence in a murder case
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period.
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It's almost embarrassing
to articulate.
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But the prosecution withheld
a lot of evidence
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really pisses you off
after a while.
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There's good evidence.
People don't realize that.
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This was just after
the Rodney King riots.
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The officers in that trial
were acquitted.
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The LAPD in particular,
was not particularly liked
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by the populace of L.A...
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Eye for an eye,
tooth for a tooth.
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[Tom] So the prosecution is a
little, little too careful,
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I think, not to put on
a certain amount of evidence
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brought by the LAPD.
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Okay, I want people
who watch this
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to walk away with the truth.
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I don't want them to have a
comic book version of this case.
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[O.J.] Is that I did not,
could not, would not
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have committed this crime.
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I have four kids,
kids I haven't seen in a year.
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All you can do
is all you can do.
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[Reporter]
Los Angeles homicide detective
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T
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But hey, we've got witnesses.
We've got experts.
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They're going to tell this
audience what happened for real,
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they're not going to juice it.
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{\an8}My name is Michelle Kessler,
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{\an8}former employee of the
Los Angeles Police Department.
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I was involved in
many high profile cases.
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Hillside Strangler case,
nude bodies were found
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on the hilly slopes
around the Hollywood--
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ARamirez is a devil worshiper
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And of course,
the O.J. Simpson case.
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{\an8}I'm Alan Park,
O.J. Simpson's limousine driver.
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{\an8}The night of June 12, 1994.
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{\an8}6' 200lbs, it just seems to be
a pretty big female.
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You wouldn't lie to me
when I talk to you, would you?
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{\an8}My name is Rod Englert. I'm a
crime scene reconstructionist.
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Now, let me tell you, the shots
that are fired, there's three.
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He was convicted and is doing
life in the penitentiary.
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I've worked on some
very high profile cases.
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Robert Blake.
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[Woman] We the jury find the
defendant not guilty
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of the crime of first degree
murder of Bonny Lee Bakley.
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I was retained in this
particular case
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to do a reconstruction of what
did or didn't occur.
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California versus O.J. Simpson.
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Okay, get your knife. It's very
important we start a time.
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{\an8}Just and it was sort of like,
you know, someone said,
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you're on the edge of your seat.
I'm on the edge of my seat.
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Listening of is he lying?
This guy's lying, like... Yes.
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[Reporter] As Clark stared down
her own witness.
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This isn't for entertainment
as much as it is for education.
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I'm not an actor. Okay?
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I'm going to put this out.
What really happened?
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Number one, I'm tired of people
lying and the media,
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the lawyers.
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This will clear all of that up.
We're going to get to everything
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that screwed this case up.
What happened happened.
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You don't buy it.
You buy it.
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It's still gonna tell you
2 and 2 is 4,
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I'm not a salesman.
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[Rod] This will be
a reconstruction based upon
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the physical evidence,
the autopsy, the blood patterns,
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trace evidence, and the patterns
of blood on the clothing
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and at the scene.
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I was retained in this case
to come in and do
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a crime scene reconstruction
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with emphasis
on blood pattern analysis,
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and to be able to
put the pieces together.
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This what appeared to be
a large puzzle at the time.
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{\an8}[Nicole] He's going to beat the
shit out of--
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{\an8}[Operator] Wait a minute,
just stay on the line
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{\an8}s
t
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- Okay Nicole?
- [Nicole] Uh-huh.
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[Rod] So I have these props
and props give one the ability
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to be able to reconstruct based
again solely upon the evidence.
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There's no speculation here.
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The attacker comes to
the residence
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and I want to put on the props.
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[Tom] This is about the victims.
That's where we're here.
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That's our job.
We gotta find out who did this.
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I asked you to go back up
to like you're pretending
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to come out of your apartment.
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And when the attacker
gets to the residence,
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gets a knife...
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And as Nicole steps down,
she is stabbed on the head
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and she have contusions
on her head.
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And there are four stab wounds
on the left side of her neck
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that penetrate down
to her heart.
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She goes down on the ground
with her head on the first step.
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She's bleeding from the wounds
on her left side,
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making a pool of blood
that not only is filling up
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this particular area, but it's
running down onto the sidewalk,
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simultaneously to that as Ron
walks up a witness hears,
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Hey, hey, hey.
He is stabbed on his left side,
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which is a very fatal wound
that starts bleeding
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down his pant leg and they will
stomp spreading the blood
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that's projecting large and
small stains onto the clothing.
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They back up into this area,
spattering blood
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by stomping in the blood of
Nicole that is now running
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from her wounds.
She's bleeding profusely.
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I am backed up against her
as the glove comes off
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and as you pull it off, let it
go down over to the left,
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along with the
glasses that drop.
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[Tom] And every question that
came up, he's answered
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and he was never called.
There's no reason for that,
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except I have my own opinion
on why he wasn't called.
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If you want to hear that?
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[Rod] During the struggle,
I'm trying to get in your throat
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and then you reach up and pull
the hat off of my head.
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It will fall there to
our left hand side.
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[Tom] This is the LAPD on trial.
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This is the LAPD who've been
accused of being racist,
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of planting evidence
and the jury, again,
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they were being fed this
by the prosecution.
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Fine. But you can't put evidence
on unless you put the person on
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who found the evidence.
You have to admit it
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legally in a court of law,
on the stand, under oath,
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in court, you can't just come in
and drop a piece of evidence,
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and say, we want this, we want
the jury to look at this.
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The prosecutor,
for better or worse,
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did not want to appear
to be in bed with the cops.
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[Rod] You get the knife in
while you're struggling,
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cutting in the margins
of the wound,
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different planes creating what's
called a swallowtail wound.
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And as we go over to the area
here, we're still fighting.
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You will go around and then down
on your buttocks,
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your pager will pop off
of your belt.
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And as it comes off, you will
also bleed on to this rail,
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the bottom rail
that we have here.
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And I go back over to Nicole,
cut from left to right,
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capturing and cutting a large
amount of hairs on to the knife
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and then goes over to
Ron Goldman.
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There's two grab marks and blood
on the back side of his shirt.
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Grab Mark is consistent
with pulling him over
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because in the scene photograph,
this shirt is pulled up
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and then the attacker
from right to left
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will cut his throat also,
as was done to Nicole.
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00:10:23,466 --> 00:10:26,803
The attacker will leave
and go over to Nicole,
236
00:10:26,803 --> 00:10:30,807
step on and put an impression
of the Bruno Magli shoe
237
00:10:30,807 --> 00:10:33,576
onto her right side
below the arm,
238
00:10:33,676 --> 00:10:37,847
and then continue and drop blood
from cutting his own finger
239
00:10:37,847 --> 00:10:40,483
when attacking Ron
will drip blood to the left,
240
00:10:40,483 --> 00:10:42,485
continue all the way
back to the alley,
241
00:10:42,485 --> 00:10:45,321
which is about 200 feet back.
242
00:10:45,321 --> 00:10:48,524
There is so much evidence in
this case, the only way
243
00:10:48,658 --> 00:10:51,828
that the defense can work
towards resolving it
244
00:10:51,828 --> 00:10:54,230
in their favor
is to just throwing dirt
245
00:10:54,363 --> 00:10:58,701
to take the attention away
from the case in chief.
246
00:10:58,701 --> 00:11:03,606
O
and the cover up continues.
247
00:11:04,407 --> 00:11:06,843
[Tom] This is the only
personal journal that exists
248
00:11:06,843 --> 00:11:09,278
in this entire case.
249
00:11:09,379 --> 00:11:12,849
It is currently in
the Law Enforcement Museum
250
00:11:12,849 --> 00:11:14,584
in Washington, DC.
251
00:11:14,717 --> 00:11:18,755
This is personal. These are
observations that I made,
252
00:11:18,888 --> 00:11:23,126
people I had dealings with, and
it's the case in my own words
253
00:11:23,226 --> 00:11:25,628
and my own thoughts
and my own deeds.
254
00:11:25,728 --> 00:11:28,731
I'm using a rubber glove.
It's human blood.
255
00:11:30,633 --> 00:11:33,970
That is medium velocity spatter.
256
00:11:34,137 --> 00:11:35,772
[Tom] Photographed here, we're
very interested in
257
00:11:35,905 --> 00:11:39,308
this blood droplet or cast off
whatever you want to call it,
258
00:11:39,409 --> 00:11:42,211
possibly from a wound you said
or maybe a murder weapon.
259
00:11:42,211 --> 00:11:45,148
We don't know. But we want this
because it's out of place.
260
00:11:45,248 --> 00:11:47,316
[Rod] But the thing that's
significant, it shows up,
261
00:11:47,417 --> 00:11:49,919
up here by the steps
and it goes all the way back,
262
00:11:50,053 --> 00:11:52,422
drops like that
to the back gate,
263
00:11:52,422 --> 00:11:54,757
which about 200 feet away
to the alley.
264
00:11:54,757 --> 00:11:57,493
[Tom] I made a specific request
through the investigator
265
00:11:57,593 --> 00:12:00,096
- to collect all of this blood.
- You did say that.
266
00:12:00,229 --> 00:12:02,231
Oh, I said that
and she wrote it down.
267
00:12:02,231 --> 00:12:04,934
Again everything goes sideways,
sometimes at the worst times,
268
00:12:04,934 --> 00:12:09,272
the coroner's investigator
was off with a broken leg,
269
00:12:09,405 --> 00:12:11,240
so they did not have
a criminalist there.
270
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,444
So instead of somebody inquiring
washed the body down.
271
00:12:14,577 --> 00:12:15,945
Which can be
the attackers blood.
272
00:12:16,112 --> 00:12:17,480
Yeah, the donor
could be the attacker.
273
00:12:17,613 --> 00:12:20,183
[Tom] Yeah. And of course,
the defense got all over us.
274
00:12:20,283 --> 00:12:24,253
The real story behind this,
however, just inches away,
275
00:12:24,253 --> 00:12:27,256
we have a similar drop
on the sole of the left boot.
276
00:12:27,256 --> 00:12:28,791
Here it is right here,
Ron Goldman.
277
00:12:28,925 --> 00:12:30,460
- Okay.
- We have this, is a droplet
278
00:12:30,593 --> 00:12:34,797
- or a cast off tailing down.
- And it's not disturbed.
279
00:12:34,797 --> 00:12:37,166
- Blood's everywhere.
- Yeah, but no some's fallen
280
00:12:37,300 --> 00:12:41,537
in the air after these two
are down and they're immobile.
281
00:12:41,637 --> 00:12:44,173
So what would that be? Right.
282
00:12:44,307 --> 00:12:47,377
The knife. Because they had
knife wounds or like you said,
283
00:12:47,477 --> 00:12:48,644
the attacker.
284
00:12:48,778 --> 00:12:50,680
Thank God the coroner didn't get
hold of that boot
285
00:12:50,813 --> 00:12:52,148
and wash it down.
286
00:12:52,281 --> 00:12:54,484
So we were able to get the blood
off of the sole of the boot.
287
00:12:54,617 --> 00:12:57,019
Take your eye off the ball
or off the prize.
288
00:12:57,153 --> 00:12:58,988
{\an8}If you deviate from
what you normally do,
289
00:12:58,988 --> 00:13:00,490
{\an8}you're going to screw it up.
290
00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:02,658
Whose blood is on that droplet?
It's a mixture.
291
00:13:02,792 --> 00:13:05,161
Both victims
is on that blood droplet.
292
00:13:05,294 --> 00:13:08,097
Came from a common source
to further corroborate,
293
00:13:08,097 --> 00:13:10,900
we look at the same area here,
indicating what appears to be
294
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,136
a footwear impression
right here. See that?
295
00:13:13,136 --> 00:13:15,538
Turns out that that is a
footwear impression
296
00:13:15,671 --> 00:13:17,974
from a pair of
Bruno Magli shoes.
297
00:13:18,107 --> 00:13:21,744
At this point, the FBI had
identified the bloody footwear
298
00:13:21,844 --> 00:13:25,181
impressions at the crime scene
as being from Bruno Maglis,
299
00:13:25,314 --> 00:13:27,884
but we couldn't at that point
put Bruno Maglis
300
00:13:28,017 --> 00:13:29,185
on Simpson's feet.
301
00:13:29,185 --> 00:13:31,854
Dominic Brown is
Nicole's younger sister,
302
00:13:31,988 --> 00:13:33,689
so I met her for lunch
and I said,
303
00:13:33,689 --> 00:13:35,691
I've got six pictures
I want to show you.
304
00:13:35,825 --> 00:13:38,361
They're all of shoes, she goes
right to the Bruno Maglis.
305
00:13:38,494 --> 00:13:40,363
She says, O.J. has
shoes like that.
306
00:13:40,363 --> 00:13:43,032
So I'm thinking this is
a little too good to be true.
307
00:13:43,166 --> 00:13:47,537
So she says Nicole was
back in New York in January
308
00:13:47,537 --> 00:13:49,439
and she may have bought
them for him at that time,
309
00:13:49,539 --> 00:13:50,873
but I don't know for sure.
310
00:13:51,007 --> 00:13:53,609
There she also bought some
Bruno Maglis for herself.
311
00:13:53,710 --> 00:13:55,545
She wore 'em for a while
and just she didn't
312
00:13:55,545 --> 00:13:58,548
really care for them,
so she gave them to me.
313
00:13:58,548 --> 00:14:00,550
So really, in fact,
I'm wearing them.
314
00:14:00,683 --> 00:14:05,288
She takes off for Bruno Maglis
and puts them on the table.
315
00:14:05,388 --> 00:14:06,889
That's pretty good stuff.
316
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:09,459
Why would you not want to have
her testify to that in court?
317
00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,561
And that never happened.
It turns out that
318
00:14:11,694 --> 00:14:14,697
the Bruno Maglis at
the crime scene, were size 12.
319
00:14:14,697 --> 00:14:17,233
His athletic shoes,
by his own admission
320
00:14:17,233 --> 00:14:19,635
that he was wearing
were size 12 also.
321
00:14:19,736 --> 00:14:22,271
If Simpson turns out,
if he's a size 10,
322
00:14:22,405 --> 00:14:25,408
that's exculpatory evidence,
defense would use that.
323
00:14:25,408 --> 00:14:26,909
And that's enough for a juror
to say, well,
324
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:29,112
it couldn't have been him,
this is different shoe size.
325
00:14:29,112 --> 00:14:30,480
We've got nothing like that.
326
00:14:30,580 --> 00:14:31,981
Wife beater, rapist, murderer.
327
00:14:32,115 --> 00:14:33,249
[Reporter]
There is enough evidence
328
00:14:33,249 --> 00:14:34,617
to put Simpson on trial.
329
00:14:34,751 --> 00:14:36,919
About two or three days
after the murders occurred.
330
00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:39,288
Defense attorneys at the time,
Bob Shapiro.
331
00:14:39,422 --> 00:14:41,891
Is it not 60?
Is it 10,000?
332
00:14:41,891 --> 00:14:45,795
[Tom] He came to our office
at robbery homicide in his style
333
00:14:45,928 --> 00:14:50,133
requested, suggested
that he could perhaps help
334
00:14:50,133 --> 00:14:53,302
our investigation along
as a defense attorney
335
00:14:53,436 --> 00:14:58,141
if he would provide us with a
criminalist and a pathologist
336
00:14:58,274 --> 00:15:01,577
to assist us with our
investigation of the body
337
00:15:01,577 --> 00:15:04,113
as evidence,
but that is brassy,
338
00:15:04,113 --> 00:15:06,849
so I guess we can't
blame him for trying.
339
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:08,518
It didn't work that way.
340
00:15:08,618 --> 00:15:11,454
Now, as we're sitting here doing
the crime scene investigation,
341
00:15:11,454 --> 00:15:14,791
this pager continually went off
the entire night.
342
00:15:14,924 --> 00:15:18,127
We find out coworkers at the
Mezzaluna Restaurant
343
00:15:18,261 --> 00:15:20,797
was trying to get a hold of him,
that this was kind of eerie
344
00:15:20,797 --> 00:15:23,466
listening to this. This is going
on throughout the whole night.
345
00:15:23,466 --> 00:15:26,169
We're doing the whole crime
scene investigation,
346
00:15:26,302 --> 00:15:28,371
but it turns out it was,
in fact, his friend.
347
00:15:28,471 --> 00:15:29,939
They wanted to go out drinking.
348
00:15:29,939 --> 00:15:32,809
[Rod] Look at the blood that's
on the small tree transfer.
349
00:15:32,809 --> 00:15:34,544
He had to be up against that.
350
00:15:34,644 --> 00:15:36,479
And then there's a little pool
of blood where he was
351
00:15:36,612 --> 00:15:40,483
up against that so that when the
attacker went over to Nicole
352
00:15:40,483 --> 00:15:43,786
to cut her throat, then he came
back to him and cut his throat.
353
00:15:43,786 --> 00:15:45,988
And that's what evidence does.
It tells that he was
354
00:15:46,122 --> 00:15:48,524
in this seated position
before being pulled over
355
00:15:48,658 --> 00:15:50,126
and then his throat was cut.
356
00:15:50,126 --> 00:15:51,828
[Tom] So he was going between
her and him.
357
00:15:51,828 --> 00:15:53,396
- [Rod] Exactly.
- [Tom] More than once.
358
00:15:53,496 --> 00:15:55,531
[Rod] You know why? Because he
want to make sure they're dead.
359
00:15:55,665 --> 00:15:57,233
And the only way to do that
in this person,
360
00:15:57,333 --> 00:15:59,502
- the attacker's mind.
- Yeah?
361
00:15:59,502 --> 00:16:02,071
Here's the cap, again,
the Bruno Magli
362
00:16:02,171 --> 00:16:05,074
footwear impression here.
Very important stuff.
363
00:16:05,074 --> 00:16:06,743
And note, she's still bleeding
364
00:16:06,843 --> 00:16:08,911
because the blood is running
over the top of the footprint.
365
00:16:09,078 --> 00:16:10,513
She's nearly decapitated.
366
00:16:10,513 --> 00:16:13,716
As we remove her body, you can
see her vertebra from the front.
367
00:16:13,850 --> 00:16:16,185
{\an8}If you look at Ron Goldman,
you have, you know, like
368
00:16:16,185 --> 00:16:21,524
{\an8}20 different sized stab wounds.
Ron fought hard, hard, hard.
369
00:16:21,657 --> 00:16:24,327
Ron, he was just at the wrong
place at the wrong time.
370
00:16:24,327 --> 00:16:26,095
The blood in here is everywhere.
371
00:16:26,095 --> 00:16:28,998
Nicole, she was in the wrong
place for a long time.
372
00:16:29,098 --> 00:16:31,567
[Tom] And that became a bone of
contention later on
373
00:16:31,701 --> 00:16:33,870
when we were also accused of
planting the blood.
374
00:16:33,870 --> 00:16:36,105
Yeah, which is something else.
But then you and later--
375
00:16:36,205 --> 00:16:38,374
[Rod] But you had to have
knowledge on how to plant it.
376
00:16:38,374 --> 00:16:39,709
Well, to make it fit.
377
00:16:39,842 --> 00:16:41,511
[Tom] Not only that,
but Simpson's blood
378
00:16:41,511 --> 00:16:44,113
w-we picked up at the scene.
He's back in Chicago,
379
00:16:44,113 --> 00:16:46,115
so how did we get his blood
from Chicago to here?
380
00:16:46,115 --> 00:16:47,216
[Rod] Yeah.
381
00:16:47,216 --> 00:16:48,718
[Tom] Well, it didn't
make any sense.
382
00:16:48,718 --> 00:16:49,952
I know, I know.
Listen to this.
383
00:16:50,119 --> 00:16:51,220
So there's a city of
8 million people.
384
00:16:51,354 --> 00:16:52,622
- Yeah?
- You have a Bronco,
385
00:16:52,722 --> 00:16:53,856
that's a scene.
386
00:16:53,856 --> 00:16:55,958
You have Bundy Street,
that's a scene.
387
00:16:56,125 --> 00:16:57,593
And you have Rockingham.
That's a scene.
388
00:16:57,727 --> 00:17:01,731
You got all three people's blood
at each one of those locations
389
00:17:01,731 --> 00:17:03,733
in that two hour period.
390
00:17:03,733 --> 00:17:06,069
And it's so simple.
It is so simple.
391
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:08,805
So everybody was taking shots
at everybody else.
392
00:17:08,905 --> 00:17:10,773
Everybody pointing fingers
in every direction.
393
00:17:10,907 --> 00:17:14,077
We were fighting, not just
involving in the case
394
00:17:14,210 --> 00:17:16,079
and these attorneys,
but the media.
395
00:17:16,212 --> 00:17:20,616
Rod Englert alluded to some of
this when his home was prowled,
396
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:22,552
there was a team
for the defense
397
00:17:22,552 --> 00:17:24,220
that was going
through people's trash.
398
00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:28,591
Friends of mine at my church
were contacted secretly
399
00:17:28,725 --> 00:17:30,126
because I was a youth leader.
400
00:17:30,259 --> 00:17:34,464
People were interviewed about
my interaction with kids.
401
00:17:34,597 --> 00:17:39,102
Yes, it did affect my life.
It was both my wife, my family.
402
00:17:39,102 --> 00:17:42,605
Now, before Ron Goldman was
removed, you couldn't see
403
00:17:42,739 --> 00:17:44,774
the keys because
they were concealed.
404
00:17:44,774 --> 00:17:48,578
You can see the drag marks here
after the pull the body out.
405
00:17:48,578 --> 00:17:52,482
Keys are interesting because he
was probably holding the keys.
406
00:17:52,615 --> 00:17:54,517
The keys belong
to his girlfriend.
407
00:17:54,617 --> 00:17:57,820
He drove her car
the night of the murders.
408
00:17:57,954 --> 00:18:00,957
When these keys were picked up,
they were booked into evidence.
409
00:18:01,057 --> 00:18:03,659
There was no blood in those keys
and they were booked
410
00:18:03,793 --> 00:18:07,130
and they were consequently
released to the girlfriend.
411
00:18:07,130 --> 00:18:09,198
She made a complaint when
she got the keys back
412
00:18:09,298 --> 00:18:11,134
said, oh, there's blood all over
them, they were terrible
413
00:18:11,267 --> 00:18:12,535
- and everything else.
- Right.
414
00:18:12,635 --> 00:18:15,605
Well, somehow the defense
got a hold of this statement.
415
00:18:15,605 --> 00:18:19,609
The defense said, well, perhaps
the real suspect
416
00:18:19,609 --> 00:18:22,845
got the keys from Ron
and there was blood on them.
417
00:18:22,979 --> 00:18:26,349
And that blood belongs to
perhaps the real suspect
418
00:18:26,482 --> 00:18:27,950
using the keys as a weapon.
419
00:18:28,084 --> 00:18:30,153
[Rod] There's no speculation,
there's no guesswork where
420
00:18:30,153 --> 00:18:34,157
the donor has been identified
with those particular patterns.
421
00:18:34,157 --> 00:18:35,792
It made it very, very solid.
422
00:18:35,792 --> 00:18:38,361
[Tom] Because we have a mixture
of blood coming from
423
00:18:38,494 --> 00:18:41,664
a common murder weapon
and his sole to this day,
424
00:18:41,664 --> 00:18:45,001
the defense claims, well,
there's probably a second one.
425
00:18:45,101 --> 00:18:46,836
There's no evidence
of a second one.
426
00:18:46,836 --> 00:18:49,405
{\an8}We looked for that evidence.
I looked for that evidence.
427
00:18:49,505 --> 00:18:53,142
{\an8}I examined every piece of that
sidewalk and then going
428
00:18:53,142 --> 00:18:56,312
all the way back to the back,
about 200 feet to where
429
00:18:56,312 --> 00:18:58,347
the Bronco was parked
in the alley.
430
00:18:58,481 --> 00:19:00,583
And there's no evidence
whatsoever that there was
431
00:19:00,683 --> 00:19:02,218
more than one individual.
432
00:19:02,351 --> 00:19:04,487
[Tom] The evidence tells us
without any doubt,
433
00:19:04,487 --> 00:19:06,055
because of the blood
and because of this,
434
00:19:06,055 --> 00:19:07,557
- there's only one suspect.
- Right.
435
00:19:07,690 --> 00:19:10,526
When we came, the blood is going
all the way down the walkway
436
00:19:10,660 --> 00:19:13,663
and she just about bled out.
When we did the autopsy.
437
00:19:13,663 --> 00:19:16,866
She didn't have a whole lot
of blood in her.
438
00:19:22,438 --> 00:19:24,540
{\an8}As far as my role
in the OJ Simpson case,
439
00:19:24,674 --> 00:19:28,444
{\an8}I was involved in
examining the Bronco.
440
00:19:28,544 --> 00:19:29,879
[Tom] John Rogers,
remember John?
441
00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:31,514
- Yes.
- [Tom] Good guy,
442
00:19:31,514 --> 00:19:35,184
classmate of mine, he calls me
at about 3-3:15 in the morning,
443
00:19:35,184 --> 00:19:37,553
Tom, the captain wants to buy
you a cup of coffee.
444
00:19:39,389 --> 00:19:41,724
{\an8}No, hello, how are you?
I'm sorry I woke you.
445
00:19:41,858 --> 00:19:43,459
So we know we got
something going on.
446
00:19:43,559 --> 00:19:46,629
So he tells me they have this
double O.J. Simpson's ex-wife,
447
00:19:46,729 --> 00:19:48,231
I think he said,
may be involved,
448
00:19:48,231 --> 00:19:49,632
but we don't know for sure.
449
00:19:49,732 --> 00:19:51,801
They got all of Bundy
blocked off. He's on the steps.
450
00:19:51,901 --> 00:19:54,637
The lower part of the steps,
four feet, ten inches away.
451
00:19:54,737 --> 00:19:56,973
There's a second victim,
Ron Goldman.
452
00:19:57,106 --> 00:19:59,742
When the sun came up,
we begin to find more blood.
453
00:19:59,876 --> 00:20:03,713
This is Rockingham gate,
the blood tailed up the driveway
454
00:20:03,713 --> 00:20:06,916
and right into the house. A
Bronco was parked out in front.
455
00:20:06,916 --> 00:20:09,919
I had nothing against
O.J. Simpson, and I was shocked
456
00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:11,554
that he was a suspect.
457
00:20:11,554 --> 00:20:14,590
Here's the master bedroom.
These are O.J. socks he took off
458
00:20:14,590 --> 00:20:16,125
when he returned
from the crime scene.
459
00:20:16,259 --> 00:20:18,094
So the bathroom is
back over here.
460
00:20:18,227 --> 00:20:20,063
What's interesting,
your guys went up there
461
00:20:20,063 --> 00:20:22,465
and they checked the sink
and they check the shower stall
462
00:20:22,598 --> 00:20:24,934
because Simpson had said that
he took a shower,
463
00:20:24,934 --> 00:20:28,104
but in the sink
and the shower stall,
464
00:20:28,104 --> 00:20:29,739
the bar soap
lying in the bottom,
465
00:20:29,739 --> 00:20:30,807
what do we find?
466
00:20:30,940 --> 00:20:32,642
- Blood.
- Blood. Traces of blood.
467
00:20:32,775 --> 00:20:35,111
So we know he was in the shower.
468
00:20:35,244 --> 00:20:38,915
Now you can see some of these
photos where you start to see
469
00:20:38,915 --> 00:20:43,286
stains by the naked eye.
Smears of blood everywhere.
470
00:20:43,286 --> 00:20:47,356
Began to believe it was really
O.J. Simpson and nobody else.
471
00:20:52,729 --> 00:20:55,698
{\an8}He has a knife.
She's nearly decapitated.
472
00:20:55,698 --> 00:20:57,066
He is stabbed.
473
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,203
When the sun came up,
begin to find more blood.
474
00:21:00,203 --> 00:21:03,372
In the sink
and the shower stall.
475
00:21:03,506 --> 00:21:06,209
{\an8}The bar soap lying in the bottom
what do we find?
476
00:21:06,209 --> 00:21:07,710
{\an8}- Blood.
- Blood.
477
00:21:07,710 --> 00:21:10,446
This is what, 25 years later
that there was a second suspect.
478
00:21:10,546 --> 00:21:14,117
They can't tell you why. They
say the cops planted evidence,
479
00:21:14,117 --> 00:21:16,786
but they can't show us evidence
of the cops planting evidence.
480
00:21:16,886 --> 00:21:19,188
They said the lab was
involved in this conspiracy,
481
00:21:19,188 --> 00:21:21,224
but they can't show us
any evidence of that.
482
00:21:21,224 --> 00:21:23,459
{\an8}And I don't know if you can
imagine how many people
483
00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:26,396
{\an8}it would take to
pull together this conspiracy.
484
00:21:26,396 --> 00:21:28,965
Basically, overnight,
the evidence in general
485
00:21:29,132 --> 00:21:32,301
was found within 24 hours.
486
00:21:32,402 --> 00:21:36,272
[Tom] The LAPD has a policy
that all searches,
487
00:21:36,406 --> 00:21:39,275
after they're completed,
will be videotaped
488
00:21:39,409 --> 00:21:41,411
to show that we have not
trashed it.
489
00:21:41,411 --> 00:21:43,613
The defense gets the video
that we took.
490
00:21:43,746 --> 00:21:45,248
We turned it over
to the defense.
491
00:21:45,248 --> 00:21:46,549
Looking at the video, they say,
492
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:47,917
wait a minute,
where are the socks?
493
00:21:48,051 --> 00:21:50,386
There's no socks here.
They must have been planted.
494
00:21:50,386 --> 00:21:51,821
They're not in the video.
495
00:21:51,921 --> 00:21:55,258
Unknowing to them, when the
video was actually made
496
00:21:55,391 --> 00:21:58,795
after, not before, this is very
simply explained
497
00:21:58,928 --> 00:22:01,397
where the video was taken after.
498
00:22:01,397 --> 00:22:05,268
Today, people still say,
what about the socks thing?
499
00:22:05,601 --> 00:22:07,837
There were a little over 1,000
crime scene photos
500
00:22:07,937 --> 00:22:10,106
of the Bronco, of Rockingham,
of Bundy
501
00:22:10,106 --> 00:22:11,908
and all turned over
to the defense.
502
00:22:11,908 --> 00:22:14,610
This is August 27th.
So this is a
503
00:22:14,610 --> 00:22:15,945
little over two months later
504
00:22:15,945 --> 00:22:17,313
and they don't know
where the bodies were
505
00:22:17,447 --> 00:22:19,115
at the crime scene?
No, they had no idea.
506
00:22:19,248 --> 00:22:20,817
They thought the bodies were
by the front doors.
507
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:23,820
I said no, they're down here
near the front gate.
508
00:22:23,953 --> 00:22:26,789
This is where Nicole was.
This is where Ron was over here.
509
00:22:26,923 --> 00:22:29,125
And they're not taking any
notes, but there's plenty of
510
00:22:29,125 --> 00:22:31,294
camera work going on
with the media.
511
00:22:33,329 --> 00:22:35,031
You can see in
this picture right here,
512
00:22:35,131 --> 00:22:37,934
my hair used to be red
and not white.
513
00:22:37,934 --> 00:22:39,469
- Okay.
- But anyway,
514
00:22:39,469 --> 00:22:42,939
we went in to examine the Bronco
for blood patterns.
515
00:22:42,939 --> 00:22:46,843
To our surprise,
we found a lot more blood.
516
00:22:46,976 --> 00:22:50,446
You can see some of these photos
that I have here
517
00:22:50,446 --> 00:22:53,983
where you start to see stains
by the naked eye.
518
00:22:53,983 --> 00:22:56,052
Smears of blood everywhere.
519
00:22:56,152 --> 00:23:00,356
Began to believe it was really
O.J. Simpson and nobody else
520
00:23:00,490 --> 00:23:03,092
when there was no other blood
found at the crime scene
521
00:23:03,092 --> 00:23:05,094
except the victims
522
00:23:05,094 --> 00:23:09,098
and O.J. Simpson's by th-- where
he said he parked his car.
523
00:23:09,098 --> 00:23:12,168
[Tom] When we take the doors
off, take the console out,
524
00:23:12,168 --> 00:23:14,871
take the seats out,
take the back out,
525
00:23:15,004 --> 00:23:17,874
strip everything out. We find a
lot of interesting stuff.
526
00:23:18,007 --> 00:23:21,010
We were accused of finding all
this extra blood,
527
00:23:21,144 --> 00:23:25,581
more of it as planting it.
It's another stab to the heart.
528
00:23:25,681 --> 00:23:30,119
The jurors, that was another
story testifying.
529
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,156
And I look over and you try to
talk to the jury
530
00:23:33,156 --> 00:23:34,991
and you try to speak
in lay terms
531
00:23:35,124 --> 00:23:38,361
and they're taking notes and
kind of giggling to each other
532
00:23:38,361 --> 00:23:41,030
and whispering,
I can't believe that Judge Ito
533
00:23:41,130 --> 00:23:44,934
didn't put a stop to that, nor
did the prosecuting attorneys
534
00:23:45,034 --> 00:23:46,269
say anything.
535
00:23:46,369 --> 00:23:48,738
Everything was attacked.
That's their only defense.
536
00:23:48,871 --> 00:23:50,540
{\an8}They're going to
tell you it was lies.
537
00:23:50,673 --> 00:23:53,242
They're going to tell you
it was a conspiracy.
538
00:23:53,376 --> 00:23:55,712
We were very happy that
we found this amount of blood
539
00:23:55,845 --> 00:23:58,014
because in those days,
analyzing DNA,
540
00:23:58,147 --> 00:24:00,516
you needed a lot of blood.
We proved that it was
541
00:24:00,516 --> 00:24:05,188
a combination of Ron Goldman,
Nicole Simpson and O.J. Simpson.
542
00:24:05,188 --> 00:24:10,359
{\an8}Evidence that was collected from
the Bronco is enormous.
543
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,097
Get any prosecutor in the
country that prosecutes cases,
544
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:16,399
would love to have
what's just in the Bronco.
545
00:24:16,532 --> 00:24:18,101
{\an8}[O.J.] Just tell them
I'm all sorry.
546
00:24:18,201 --> 00:24:20,403
{\an8}Y
and tomorrow that I was sorry
547
00:24:20,403 --> 00:24:23,206
{\an8}and that I'm sorry that I did
this to the police department.
548
00:24:23,206 --> 00:24:25,241
[Tom] Listen, I think you
should tell them yourself.
549
00:24:25,374 --> 00:24:29,112
{\an8}After the chase, we obviously
searched-- searched the rear.
550
00:24:29,112 --> 00:24:30,546
{\an8}We searched the whole thing.
551
00:24:30,546 --> 00:24:32,115
{\an8}You gonna go to the house?
552
00:24:32,215 --> 00:24:33,649
{\an8}[O.J.] That's where I told you
we weren't-- you know,
553
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:35,752
{\an8}you just let them all know.
You let the police know,
554
00:24:35,752 --> 00:24:37,587
{\an8}you let them all know
I wasn't running.
555
00:24:37,587 --> 00:24:38,988
[Tom]
I know you weren't running.
556
00:24:39,122 --> 00:24:41,424
This was Simpson's mobile phone
that I spoke to him with.
557
00:24:41,557 --> 00:24:44,394
[Rod] And that was during the
Bronco chase after the murder.
558
00:24:44,394 --> 00:24:45,962
- The slow chase?
- Yeah.
559
00:24:46,129 --> 00:24:47,497
- [Tom] You there?
- [O.J.] Just let me get to
560
00:24:47,597 --> 00:24:48,931
- my house.
- Okay. We're going to do that.
561
00:24:48,931 --> 00:24:50,433
[O.J.] I swear to you,
I'll give you what--
562
00:24:50,566 --> 00:24:52,235
I'll give you me,
I'll give you my whole body.
563
00:24:52,235 --> 00:24:53,736
[Tom] Just throw the gun
out the window.
564
00:24:53,736 --> 00:24:56,572
Let's look at this disguise kit,
of significance in this kit,
565
00:24:56,572 --> 00:24:59,242
see, you got a little beard,
and a mustache here.
566
00:24:59,242 --> 00:25:03,679
But what's significant
is May the 27th, 1994.
567
00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:07,083
So this disguise kit was bought
two weeks before the murders.
568
00:25:07,083 --> 00:25:08,618
Why would he have
a disguise kit?
569
00:25:08,618 --> 00:25:09,986
This was found in the back seat.
570
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,088
- Premeditation. Premeditation.
- Yeah.
571
00:25:12,088 --> 00:25:14,257
Later is in pursuit.
He's got a gun.
572
00:25:14,257 --> 00:25:17,093
Here's the gun right here.
A revolver.
573
00:25:17,093 --> 00:25:20,430
This becomes very important
to my conversations with him,
574
00:25:20,430 --> 00:25:22,365
that isn't brought
into evidence.
575
00:25:22,465 --> 00:25:24,467
{\an8}Just have A.C. pull over
and just toss that gun out
576
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,536
{\an8}and everything will be okay.
It's gonna be better tomorrow.
577
00:25:26,636 --> 00:25:28,104
- [O.J.] He's takin' me home.
- [Tom] I know he's
578
00:25:28,104 --> 00:25:31,207
taking you home, but will you
please toss that gun?
579
00:25:31,307 --> 00:25:34,377
Here's a set of keys.
Ten days before the murders,
580
00:25:34,477 --> 00:25:36,713
Nicole went to her mother
and she says, Mom,
581
00:25:36,813 --> 00:25:39,148
I'm a little concerned
because I think O.J.,
582
00:25:39,282 --> 00:25:41,984
when he was in the last time,
stole my keys.
583
00:25:42,118 --> 00:25:44,187
- There they are. He was right.
- What were those keys to,
584
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,988
other than her door? Was it to--
585
00:25:46,122 --> 00:25:48,458
[Tom] The gate
and the front door.
586
00:25:48,458 --> 00:25:50,660
Why would he want to steal the
keys? Perhaps because he wanted
587
00:25:50,793 --> 00:25:53,229
to go in there
at his own choosing.
588
00:25:53,329 --> 00:25:54,731
There's actually two Broncos.
589
00:25:54,831 --> 00:25:57,133
The first Bronco was given
to O.J. by Hertz.
590
00:25:57,133 --> 00:25:59,168
He used the Bronco
the night of the murders.
591
00:25:59,302 --> 00:26:03,840
His good friend, A.C. Cowlings,
also bought a 1994 white Bronco.
592
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,541
[Rod] O.J. was supposed to
turn himself in
593
00:26:05,675 --> 00:26:08,077
at Parker Center downtown.
He never showed.
594
00:26:08,177 --> 00:26:10,079
So this goes out
all over the news.
595
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:12,482
People are actually
running up to the car
596
00:26:12,482 --> 00:26:14,751
- and banging on the windows.
- I saw that.
597
00:26:14,851 --> 00:26:16,552
We jump ahead to the trial.
598
00:26:16,686 --> 00:26:17,987
Where's all this stuff?
599
00:26:18,087 --> 00:26:19,355
[Rod] None of this was used.
600
00:26:19,355 --> 00:26:21,157
[Tom] No, this goes to
intent to flee, obviously,
601
00:26:21,157 --> 00:26:22,658
that's the very least.
602
00:26:22,658 --> 00:26:24,360
[Rod] Okay. What do we have?
We have two people murdered.
603
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:27,196
We have three locations.
We have a Bronco.
604
00:26:27,330 --> 00:26:29,932
We have Rockingham
and we have Bundy Street. Right?
605
00:26:30,099 --> 00:26:31,934
And we know that there's
a lot of blood.
606
00:26:32,101 --> 00:26:33,669
[Tom] There's a ton of blood
in this car.
607
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:35,204
[Rod] I wanted to do a little
demonstration for you
608
00:26:35,338 --> 00:26:37,874
that I was planning on doing
for the jurors
609
00:26:38,007 --> 00:26:40,376
and this is stage blood.
And what I'm going to do
610
00:26:40,510 --> 00:26:43,379
is put some on my knuckle.
O.J. Simpson was bleeding,
611
00:26:43,513 --> 00:26:45,415
- left middle finger.
- Yeah.
612
00:26:45,548 --> 00:26:48,117
I could come up. Sure.
And open the door like this.
613
00:26:48,217 --> 00:26:49,719
But then it would be awkward
because you got to
614
00:26:49,719 --> 00:26:53,189
push the button. But then I go
in like that and I'm bleeding
615
00:26:53,189 --> 00:26:56,292
and I pull it out.
I open the door.
616
00:26:56,392 --> 00:27:00,229
Even TV viewers of that trial
never knew that there was
617
00:27:00,363 --> 00:27:03,566
enormous amounts of blood,
that these these were patterns
618
00:27:03,566 --> 00:27:06,736
that were identifiable.
Pretty hard to refute.
619
00:27:06,869 --> 00:27:08,571
Here's a photo
taken at the time of
620
00:27:08,704 --> 00:27:10,807
the crime scene investigation.
621
00:27:10,907 --> 00:27:12,809
This is the door handle
on this one.
622
00:27:12,909 --> 00:27:14,911
Here's the same door handle
here.
623
00:27:14,911 --> 00:27:16,746
And notice where it's located.
624
00:27:16,879 --> 00:27:18,481
It's not where
the thumb would be.
625
00:27:18,581 --> 00:27:20,416
It's not where the
little finger would be.
626
00:27:20,550 --> 00:27:22,952
And we have a person
bleeding from which finger?
627
00:27:23,086 --> 00:27:26,489
The left middle finger.
And that's O.J. Simpson's blood.
628
00:27:26,589 --> 00:27:29,592
They did not put Rod Englert
on the stand to testify
629
00:27:29,592 --> 00:27:32,829
{\an8}to the months and months
of work that he did.
630
00:27:32,929 --> 00:27:35,732
As to every bit of blood
evidence in this case
631
00:27:35,732 --> 00:27:37,600
that the jury, I'm sure,
632
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,570
regardless of how they thought
about cops or anything else,
633
00:27:40,570 --> 00:27:42,171
I'm sure they wanted to hear it.
634
00:27:42,271 --> 00:27:43,973
Nobody else did that
on either side.
635
00:27:44,107 --> 00:27:46,943
This is at the very end
when O.J. Simpson gets out of
636
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:50,680
the vehicle and leaves after
parking it on Rockingham.
637
00:27:50,780 --> 00:27:52,615
- You didn't see that at trial.
- Exactly.
638
00:27:52,749 --> 00:27:56,119
Somebody needed to tell that
story because the story
639
00:27:56,252 --> 00:27:57,687
is pretty hard to refute.
640
00:27:57,787 --> 00:27:59,856
I've done something here that I
think that will help the viewers
641
00:27:59,956 --> 00:28:03,793
to realize how much blood
is actually in this vehicle
642
00:28:03,793 --> 00:28:06,295
and the size of the scenes.
643
00:28:06,295 --> 00:28:08,064
So this is not the same vehicle.
644
00:28:08,064 --> 00:28:10,099
That vehicle had leather seats.
They were beige.
645
00:28:10,099 --> 00:28:12,301
This has seats that are cloth.
646
00:28:12,435 --> 00:28:15,805
But I just want to take the
viewer through how much blood
647
00:28:15,938 --> 00:28:18,808
and what the patterns were
inside of the vehicle.
648
00:28:18,941 --> 00:28:20,643
{\an8}Well, who was bleeding?
O.J. Simpson.
649
00:28:20,643 --> 00:28:22,178
{\an8}Where was he bleeding?
Left finger.
650
00:28:22,311 --> 00:28:25,648
{\an8}And this is a transfer
that appears to be something,
651
00:28:25,648 --> 00:28:31,320
could be the knife laying right
under it is a long blond hair.
652
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,989
And you're supposed to
testify to that
653
00:28:33,122 --> 00:28:34,824
and admit it in court,
never happened.
654
00:28:40,430 --> 00:28:41,998
{\an8}Smears of blood everywhere.
655
00:28:42,098 --> 00:28:45,201
{\an8}[Tom] Crime scene photos of the
bronco of Rockingham, of Bundy.
656
00:28:45,201 --> 00:28:48,104
Let's look at this disguise kit.
A mustache here.
657
00:28:48,104 --> 00:28:49,572
Here's the gun right here.
658
00:28:49,705 --> 00:28:51,841
This goes to intent to flee, obviously.
659
00:28:51,841 --> 00:28:53,543
{\an8}Well, who was bleeding?
O.J. Simpson.
660
00:28:53,543 --> 00:28:55,611
{\an8}Where was he bleeding?
Left finger.
661
00:28:55,712 --> 00:28:58,581
How it lines up with not only
opening the door on the outside,
662
00:28:58,715 --> 00:29:01,050
but just opening the door
to get out on the inside.
663
00:29:01,050 --> 00:29:04,087
It's only his blood. It's in
line with where he's bleeding.
664
00:29:04,220 --> 00:29:05,955
And then when did
the crime occur?
665
00:29:06,055 --> 00:29:07,356
Nighttime.
666
00:29:07,356 --> 00:29:09,358
Well, what do you do on a car
when you get in it
667
00:29:09,358 --> 00:29:10,893
to drive it at night,
you turn on the lights.
668
00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:15,231
We actually Luminoled this
and this is on the light switch,
669
00:29:15,364 --> 00:29:19,068
not only on the switch itself,
but below the switch.
670
00:29:19,068 --> 00:29:22,105
And when the donor came back
as to whose blood this was,
671
00:29:22,238 --> 00:29:25,575
it came back as human blood.
And it came back as the donor
672
00:29:25,708 --> 00:29:28,077
being O.J. Simpson.
Now, that's a lot of blood,
673
00:29:28,077 --> 00:29:31,080
but it even gets to be more.
674
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,250
{\an8}On the steering wheel
at about 1:00, you will see
675
00:29:34,384 --> 00:29:39,655
a faint transfer of blood there
down here at about 7:00.
676
00:29:39,756 --> 00:29:41,924
Well, what hand do you
turn the lights on with?
677
00:29:41,924 --> 00:29:43,493
You turn it on
with your left hand.
678
00:29:43,593 --> 00:29:46,763
Sure, you can reach over
and turn it on with your right.
679
00:29:46,763 --> 00:29:50,733
But in this particular case,
then you've got outside door,
680
00:29:50,733 --> 00:29:56,639
inside door, light switch,
steering wheel. 1:00 and 7:00
681
00:29:56,773 --> 00:29:58,808
is O.J. Simpson's blood.
682
00:29:58,941 --> 00:30:02,145
Well, in getting in the vehicle,
we have a swipe
683
00:30:02,278 --> 00:30:05,281
that goes from left,
the door side,
684
00:30:05,415 --> 00:30:07,950
the driver's door side
to the right.
685
00:30:08,084 --> 00:30:11,254
And that is
Nicole Simpson's blood.
686
00:30:11,254 --> 00:30:12,789
See, there was never any theme.
687
00:30:12,922 --> 00:30:17,994
There was never a story
that started at Bundy Street
688
00:30:18,127 --> 00:30:21,631
and then went into a Bronco.
689
00:30:21,631 --> 00:30:24,801
And that evidence then
transferred some of it
690
00:30:24,801 --> 00:30:27,303
into a house and around a house.
691
00:30:27,437 --> 00:30:29,338
I mean, there's a
ton of blood in here.
692
00:30:29,472 --> 00:30:31,274
Why it was never
put into evidence.
693
00:30:31,274 --> 00:30:32,975
You got blood here
that's visible,
694
00:30:32,975 --> 00:30:34,610
anjd you got blood
that's not visible.
695
00:30:34,610 --> 00:30:36,312
[Rod] Right, in trial,
only pieces were.
696
00:30:36,312 --> 00:30:37,814
Well, this blood here
is this person.
697
00:30:37,814 --> 00:30:40,149
[Tom] Sitting on the jury, I
want to know how, why.
698
00:30:40,283 --> 00:30:42,719
[Rod] But there was never
any explanation of theme
699
00:30:42,819 --> 00:30:44,987
that followed
from beginning to end
700
00:30:45,121 --> 00:30:47,523
about these patterns,
what the patterns were,
701
00:30:47,657 --> 00:30:50,827
what they mean,
what they came from.
702
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,130
We had two swipes of
Nicole Brown Simpson's blood
703
00:30:54,130 --> 00:30:57,033
going from left to right
near the door sill,
704
00:30:57,166 --> 00:30:59,669
as you can see here,
was also a swipe
705
00:30:59,802 --> 00:31:01,637
of Nicole Brown Simpson's blood.
706
00:31:01,637 --> 00:31:03,873
What is that consistent with?
That's consistent with
707
00:31:04,006 --> 00:31:07,510
having blood on a hand
which we know he was bleeding
708
00:31:07,643 --> 00:31:10,346
that swipes across
or a sleeve
709
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,882
in both of these,
Nicole Simpson's blood.
710
00:31:13,015 --> 00:31:14,117
[Tom] You know,
there is a story.
711
00:31:14,117 --> 00:31:15,518
What we needed was
someone to tell it.
712
00:31:15,651 --> 00:31:16,919
- [Rod] I was ready.
- [Tom] I know.
713
00:31:17,019 --> 00:31:19,122
[Rod] If I were his defense
attorney, I'd be worried.
714
00:31:19,122 --> 00:31:21,891
I would be really worried.
The evidence is overwhelming.
715
00:31:22,024 --> 00:31:24,260
It's enormous. It's big.
This is a lot of blood.
716
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:25,728
These aren't little
specks of blood.
717
00:31:25,862 --> 00:31:28,131
These aren't projected stains.
718
00:31:28,131 --> 00:31:30,867
They are patterns,
large patterns of blood
719
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,904
to indicate that someone
is bleeding extensively.
720
00:31:35,037 --> 00:31:38,574
On the console, it's as though
O.J. Simpson is reaching around.
721
00:31:38,708 --> 00:31:40,710
And inside of that was a mixture
722
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:45,281
of Nicole Brown Simpson
and Ron Goldman's blood.
723
00:31:45,381 --> 00:31:46,883
These are visible
to the naked eye.
724
00:31:47,016 --> 00:31:51,621
Transfer stains from a hand
that is wet with blood.
725
00:31:51,721 --> 00:31:53,389
[Tom] You look at
the DNA in this case
726
00:31:53,389 --> 00:31:55,158
and the fact
there's nothing exculpatory,
727
00:31:55,158 --> 00:31:57,693
never have too much evidence
in a murder case.
728
00:31:57,693 --> 00:32:00,229
Like I have too much,
they'll never believe it.
729
00:32:00,363 --> 00:32:01,764
Well, that was this case.
730
00:32:01,898 --> 00:32:03,900
You had a ton of evidence
that was never brought.
731
00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:06,936
[Rod] Just another transfer.
And this is a transfer
732
00:32:07,103 --> 00:32:10,907
that appears to be something
that is it could be the knife.
733
00:32:11,107 --> 00:32:13,543
You'll notice here, Tom.
Notice at the edge of it.
734
00:32:13,543 --> 00:32:17,113
It's well-defined, laying right
under it in the seat
735
00:32:17,113 --> 00:32:20,249
is a long, blond hair.
736
00:32:20,249 --> 00:32:23,486
And remember I told you what I
picked off 39 hairs
737
00:32:23,586 --> 00:32:26,255
from Goldman's shirt
after her throat had been cut.
738
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:31,160
Nicole's throat was cut. The
attacker went back to Goldman,
739
00:32:31,260 --> 00:32:34,130
cut his throat,
and all those hairs came off
740
00:32:34,263 --> 00:32:37,400
because there's close contact
and on to Goldman's shirt.
741
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,569
[Tom] Simpson never even knew
Ron Goldman.
742
00:32:39,569 --> 00:32:42,805
So what would Ron Goldman's
blood be doing in Simpson's car?
743
00:32:42,939 --> 00:32:44,474
Never could put
those two together.
744
00:32:44,607 --> 00:32:48,945
In the seat, you have
Nicole Brown Simpson's blood
745
00:32:49,145 --> 00:32:52,248
in the form of what appears
to be a knife transfer.
746
00:32:52,248 --> 00:32:55,785
It's a very well-defined line
that's different than what
747
00:32:55,918 --> 00:32:57,854
cloth would do
or a finger would do.
748
00:32:57,954 --> 00:33:01,524
And then below that is
a long blond hair.
749
00:33:01,624 --> 00:33:03,459
See the enormity
of that evidence?
750
00:33:03,593 --> 00:33:05,161
And you're supposed to
testify to that
751
00:33:05,294 --> 00:33:07,296
and admit it in court
and it never happened.
752
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:09,766
Any piece of evidence,
including the hair,
753
00:33:09,766 --> 00:33:12,969
the strand of hair,
was found by
754
00:33:13,102 --> 00:33:16,005
one of the prosecution's
criminalists, Rod Englert.
755
00:33:16,139 --> 00:33:17,840
In order to get that
into evidence,
756
00:33:17,974 --> 00:33:21,144
something that the jury
can look at and consider,
757
00:33:21,277 --> 00:33:23,546
it has to be admitted.
It was never admitted
758
00:33:23,646 --> 00:33:26,015
because if it were admitted,
it would have been admitted
759
00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:29,685
through Rod Englert.
That didn't happen.
760
00:33:29,819 --> 00:33:31,354
And the only reason
that wouldn't have happened
761
00:33:31,487 --> 00:33:33,489
is because the prosecution
wouldn't have wanted it,
762
00:33:33,623 --> 00:33:35,124
well, why don't they want it?
763
00:33:35,124 --> 00:33:37,226
Well, they didn't want a lot of
evidence submitted in this case.
764
00:33:37,326 --> 00:33:39,796
That's why we're here today
doing this thing.
765
00:33:39,796 --> 00:33:42,031
And this was one of them
because a cop
766
00:33:42,165 --> 00:33:44,333
was delivering the evidence,
cops are on trial
767
00:33:44,333 --> 00:33:47,737
as far as the jury is concerned.
And Rod is one of them.
768
00:33:47,837 --> 00:33:49,839
Okay, Rod, why don't you to step
back a second.
769
00:33:49,839 --> 00:33:53,009
I want to show you a little fun
fact here with it we found.
770
00:33:53,142 --> 00:33:55,211
And he pulls the seat out
and there's a little
771
00:33:55,344 --> 00:33:58,347
illumination bulb rolling
around underneath
772
00:33:58,481 --> 00:33:59,882
- when you took the seat out.
- I remember that.
773
00:34:00,083 --> 00:34:02,752
Plastic cover over the
illumination bulb was missing.
774
00:34:02,852 --> 00:34:06,155
And so is the bulb, so I look
up, this bulb fits
775
00:34:06,155 --> 00:34:08,591
at the top of the Bronco.
But I'm thinking back
776
00:34:08,691 --> 00:34:11,094
to when I was a young cop,
the first thing we did
777
00:34:11,194 --> 00:34:13,863
at nightwatch, we'd reach up
and we grab that bulb,
778
00:34:13,996 --> 00:34:16,365
we'd pull it out.
Why would you remove the bulb?
779
00:34:16,499 --> 00:34:18,101
For the same reason we did.
We didn't want--
780
00:34:18,201 --> 00:34:19,702
He didn't want
to be illuminated.
781
00:34:19,836 --> 00:34:21,404
This to me, again,
goes to intent.
782
00:34:21,537 --> 00:34:25,241
It's very significant.
We never saw it in trial.
783
00:34:29,112 --> 00:34:31,347
[Rod] Okay, Tom, now let's
talk about the socks.
784
00:34:31,347 --> 00:34:36,219
[Tom] More accusations of cops
planting blood right.
785
00:34:36,352 --> 00:34:37,754
[Rod] Tell me about that.
786
00:34:37,887 --> 00:34:41,224
[Tom] Well, the socks Simpson's
house belonging to Simpson
787
00:34:41,224 --> 00:34:43,393
- were recovered in his bedroom.
- Right.
788
00:34:49,766 --> 00:34:51,868
{\an8}Tom Lange picked them up
at the foot of the bed
789
00:34:51,868 --> 00:34:54,904
and those socks
went into evidence.
790
00:34:55,037 --> 00:34:57,907
[Tom] More accusations of
cops planting blood.
791
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,610
You get involved in this whole
thing as a blood expert,
792
00:35:00,743 --> 00:35:02,111
blood spatter expert.
793
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,882
A shotgun blast was down
through the floor
794
00:35:05,882 --> 00:35:07,250
that accounted for
the third shell.
795
00:35:07,383 --> 00:35:10,420
Another third was here.
Here's your knife.
796
00:35:10,553 --> 00:35:13,923
And then the person
rolls him over on his back.
797
00:35:13,923 --> 00:35:19,262
We find on the socks that the
victim, Nicole Simpson's blood
798
00:35:19,395 --> 00:35:22,231
is on these socks,
on O.J. socks in his bedroom.
799
00:35:22,231 --> 00:35:25,935
We get accused of planting
that blood on those socks.
800
00:35:26,102 --> 00:35:28,938
Ron and Nicole, you wouldn't
even know there's any victims
801
00:35:29,105 --> 00:35:30,773
when all this B.S. starts.
802
00:35:30,907 --> 00:35:32,275
{\an8}They're talking about
everything else,
803
00:35:32,275 --> 00:35:34,277
{\an8}everything around the periphery
of this entire case
804
00:35:34,277 --> 00:35:37,246
except the victims.
Nobody cares about that.
805
00:35:37,246 --> 00:35:40,750
One of the defense attorneys,
Alan Dershowitz,
806
00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:42,785
You would have voted to acquit.
807
00:35:42,919 --> 00:35:45,955
And he says officer, he calls
him Officer Vannatter.
808
00:35:46,122 --> 00:35:48,157
It was my late partner,
my late homicide partner
809
00:35:48,291 --> 00:35:50,426
planted the victim's blood
on Simpson's socks
810
00:35:50,426 --> 00:35:53,029
and he very demonstrably
puts his hands up
811
00:35:53,129 --> 00:35:55,131
and says he's holding
the sock here
812
00:35:55,131 --> 00:35:56,699
and there's a
vial of blood here.
813
00:35:56,799 --> 00:36:00,803
And Vannatter poured the blood
on the sock.
814
00:36:00,937 --> 00:36:05,641
Anything to throw doubt
within a case.
815
00:36:05,641 --> 00:36:07,810
And this is a very,
very good example.
816
00:36:07,944 --> 00:36:10,113
If this were true, number one,
why didn't we see this
817
00:36:10,113 --> 00:36:12,315
during the trial?
And quite frankly,
818
00:36:12,448 --> 00:36:15,218
waited until after
my partner died?
819
00:36:15,318 --> 00:36:19,122
So we have the defense attorney
saying my partner poured blood,
820
00:36:19,122 --> 00:36:21,657
planting it.
Their own investigator says
821
00:36:21,791 --> 00:36:24,494
the lab planted it, well, they
can't get their lies straight.
822
00:36:24,627 --> 00:36:28,231
Why wasn't this challenged
in rebuttal during the trial?
823
00:36:28,331 --> 00:36:31,901
People can lie.
Look at me, Tom.
824
00:36:32,001 --> 00:36:35,204
People can lie,
but the evidence never lies.
825
00:36:35,338 --> 00:36:39,642
Blood was poured onto the socks
and the blood was planted
826
00:36:39,642 --> 00:36:42,145
- on the socks by the cops.
- Well, that's ridiculous.
827
00:36:42,145 --> 00:36:44,147
It's common sense.
If you pour it,
828
00:36:44,147 --> 00:36:47,517
that's a different pattern
than projected stains.
829
00:36:47,650 --> 00:36:50,653
The blood pattern on the socks
was projected stain,
830
00:36:50,653 --> 00:36:53,856
impact into blood
that projected the blood out.
831
00:36:53,856 --> 00:36:56,692
This random distribution of
large and small drops
832
00:36:56,692 --> 00:37:00,263
that were on both socks.
Just like go in your kitchen,
833
00:37:00,363 --> 00:37:02,065
get some water
and pour it on a cloth.
834
00:37:02,198 --> 00:37:04,534
Everybody knows that's not
the same pattern.
835
00:37:04,534 --> 00:37:06,069
And then you have to
turn it over.
836
00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:07,937
You have to do it to this side.
837
00:37:08,071 --> 00:37:10,073
It doesn't create
that type of pattern.
838
00:37:10,073 --> 00:37:11,607
If I'm in the jury,
I want to know
839
00:37:11,707 --> 00:37:13,376
how the blood got on the socks.
840
00:37:13,509 --> 00:37:16,212
[
t
841
00:37:16,345 --> 00:37:17,780
I'm uncertain.
842
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,583
Here you have transfer pattern,
transfer pattern on the toes
843
00:37:20,717 --> 00:37:25,521
and then projective stains on
360 degrees round those socks.
844
00:37:25,521 --> 00:37:27,256
We looked at these socks
together, remember?
845
00:37:27,390 --> 00:37:31,094
I flew to DOJ. You met me there
at Department of Justice
846
00:37:31,194 --> 00:37:33,763
in Sacramento. Now, they hadn't
been analyzed yet
847
00:37:33,896 --> 00:37:36,699
and we counted
and looking with magnification,
848
00:37:36,699 --> 00:37:41,704
we've counted 29 projected
stains right here,
849
00:37:41,704 --> 00:37:45,308
meaning little dots, the same
that are on Ron Goldman's boots.
850
00:37:45,408 --> 00:37:49,145
And then 19 on this particular
sock, another sock.
851
00:37:49,245 --> 00:37:51,280
Now, we don't know which one
was left or worn left
852
00:37:51,414 --> 00:37:54,283
or which one was right.
On the toe of both of the socks
853
00:37:54,417 --> 00:37:57,754
and on the top of one of them
was a different type of stain.
854
00:37:57,754 --> 00:38:01,090
It wasn't projected stains,
it was a transfer stain.
855
00:38:01,224 --> 00:38:03,259
Now transfer means if
I've got blood on my hand,
856
00:38:03,259 --> 00:38:05,762
give me your hand
and I transfer it to your jacket
857
00:38:05,895 --> 00:38:09,132
and I hit some blood
and projects,
858
00:38:09,265 --> 00:38:10,800
that creates a little
random distribution
859
00:38:10,933 --> 00:38:12,335
of large and small drops.
Right?
860
00:38:12,435 --> 00:38:13,836
Now, I want to
show you something.
861
00:38:13,936 --> 00:38:17,673
{\an8}I've got a cut, and I reach down
and I pull the sock down.
862
00:38:17,774 --> 00:38:22,445
{\an8}A neighbor told us that he saw
O.J. peeking in Nicole's window.
863
00:38:22,445 --> 00:38:26,082
Coincidentally, the same type of
knit cap at the crime scene.
864
00:38:26,082 --> 00:38:28,317
I believe that she was dating
guy, that his name was Keith.
865
00:38:28,451 --> 00:38:31,320
The time that I think that
was who O.J. was spying on.
866
00:38:36,926 --> 00:38:39,195
{\an8}And we have a person bleeding
from which finger?
867
00:38:39,328 --> 00:38:42,765
{\an8}The left finger.
Inside of that was a mixture of
868
00:38:42,865 --> 00:38:46,502
Nicole Brown Simpson
and Ron Goldman's blood.
869
00:38:46,502 --> 00:38:50,873
We get accused of planning
that blood on those socks.
870
00:38:51,007 --> 00:38:54,777
I've got a cut and I reach down
and I pull the sock down.
871
00:38:54,877 --> 00:38:56,112
{\an8}I've got blood on my hands.
872
00:38:56,212 --> 00:38:57,714
{\an8}We know he's bleeding
from the middle finger.
873
00:38:57,847 --> 00:38:59,716
We know that
that blood is fresh.
874
00:38:59,849 --> 00:39:01,384
And this is where
the transfer occurs
875
00:39:01,517 --> 00:39:04,120
when I pull the socks down.
There is your transfer.
876
00:39:04,220 --> 00:39:07,557
That is a pattern that's
different from the pattern
877
00:39:07,557 --> 00:39:13,429
on both socks, 360 degrees
around the ankles,
878
00:39:13,563 --> 00:39:15,732
but not where
my pants are covering
879
00:39:15,732 --> 00:39:18,234
and not where my shoes
are being worn.
880
00:39:18,367 --> 00:39:20,703
And then you pull it off.
You usually have to grab the toe
881
00:39:20,703 --> 00:39:24,874
or it's consistent with grabbing
the toe on both of these socks.
882
00:39:24,874 --> 00:39:27,543
O.J. Simpson's blood
on the toes.
883
00:39:27,543 --> 00:39:29,712
O.J. Simpson's blood at the top.
884
00:39:29,712 --> 00:39:33,449
And Nicole Brown Simpson,
360 degrees of projected stains
885
00:39:33,583 --> 00:39:38,287
from what the demonstration is
fighting, stomping, projecting
886
00:39:38,421 --> 00:39:41,758
stains, out to the side.
You cannot pour blood
887
00:39:41,891 --> 00:39:44,827
onto these socks to create
those kind of patterns.
888
00:39:44,927 --> 00:39:47,130
It's pretty powerful evidence.
Remember, this is interesting.
889
00:39:47,263 --> 00:39:50,600
When we was there at the lab,
you call me five days later
890
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,103
and you said, go to a secure
phone and left my office.
891
00:39:54,103 --> 00:39:56,139
So I went to a phone booth.
It was raining.
892
00:39:56,272 --> 00:39:58,107
I'll never forget the words
that you told me,
893
00:39:58,107 --> 00:39:59,742
you said, want to know whose
blood this is?
894
00:39:59,742 --> 00:40:01,444
She said there's only five
people that know
895
00:40:01,577 --> 00:40:04,280
and the two of us
are two of the five.
896
00:40:04,414 --> 00:40:08,818
Nicole Brown Simpson blood
and Simpson's blood.
897
00:40:08,951 --> 00:40:10,653
And then there was
another accusation
898
00:40:10,787 --> 00:40:12,688
that the lab rehydrated
these little stains
899
00:40:12,789 --> 00:40:14,624
to make it go through
to the other side,
900
00:40:14,624 --> 00:40:16,259
meaning nobody
could be wearing them.
901
00:40:16,259 --> 00:40:17,493
Do you know what that means?
902
00:40:17,627 --> 00:40:19,295
That means there was
no foot in that sock.
903
00:40:19,429 --> 00:40:21,597
Can you really think of this?
Just think that
904
00:40:21,597 --> 00:40:23,633
someone with a Q-Tip
is going to rehydrate blood
905
00:40:23,633 --> 00:40:27,170
and 29 times...
906
00:40:27,303 --> 00:40:30,139
to make it go through the other
side that-- that was,
907
00:40:30,273 --> 00:40:34,544
that was not true. And that was
actually testified to in trial.
908
00:40:34,644 --> 00:40:36,846
Tom, let me just show you
how ridiculous this is,
909
00:40:36,979 --> 00:40:40,349
this false accusation,
910
00:40:40,483 --> 00:40:43,653
the blood pouring that
allegedly has occurred
911
00:40:43,653 --> 00:40:46,055
is when I pour blood into blood
912
00:40:46,155 --> 00:40:47,523
and pour it on the socks.
913
00:40:47,657 --> 00:40:50,526
You're not going to get
those individual stains.
914
00:40:50,660 --> 00:40:52,328
It just isn't going to happen.
Look at that.
915
00:40:52,462 --> 00:40:53,696
[Tom] It's solid.
916
00:40:53,830 --> 00:40:55,298
[Rod] And it doesn't go around
to the other side.
917
00:40:55,298 --> 00:40:57,567
This is a transfer.
Now, I've got blood on there
918
00:40:57,667 --> 00:40:59,569
and that's a transfer.
And that's what we have
919
00:40:59,669 --> 00:41:01,671
at the top that we couldn't see
with the naked eye.
920
00:41:01,804 --> 00:41:03,172
- [Tom] Yeah.
- [Rod] Not only do we have
921
00:41:03,172 --> 00:41:07,009
a transfer there,
but we have a transfer here
922
00:41:07,143 --> 00:41:10,680
and we have a transfer here
on these socks.
923
00:41:10,813 --> 00:41:13,116
And this tells a story.
It's that simple.
924
00:41:13,116 --> 00:41:15,351
And so in going and meeting
with the criminalist,
925
00:41:15,351 --> 00:41:18,421
the Department of Justice
and I contacted you later
926
00:41:18,521 --> 00:41:21,023
as to what the results were.
And I've got a little video here
927
00:41:21,124 --> 00:41:23,493
that he sent to us.
You remember this?
928
00:41:23,493 --> 00:41:26,162
It's called an
infrared examination.
929
00:41:26,162 --> 00:41:30,266
That is the camera that is able
to focus and be able to see
930
00:41:30,366 --> 00:41:32,135
what the eye cannot see.
931
00:41:32,135 --> 00:41:34,670
You can see the different
stains. They were there.
932
00:41:34,670 --> 00:41:37,373
And I want you to see this.
This is the top of the sock.
933
00:41:37,373 --> 00:41:39,041
[Tom] That is
O.J. Simpson's sock.
934
00:41:39,175 --> 00:41:40,777
[Rod] That is O.J. Simpson's
socks found at
935
00:41:40,877 --> 00:41:43,246
the foot of the bed
that you found.
936
00:41:43,379 --> 00:41:46,682
This is a transfer stain
that we're looking at here.
937
00:41:46,682 --> 00:41:48,918
And this is sock number 42A.
938
00:41:49,052 --> 00:41:52,855
But now the criminalist is going
to go down this knee high sock
939
00:41:52,855 --> 00:41:56,292
and you're going to start seeing
those projected stains.
940
00:41:56,392 --> 00:41:59,562
And mind you, there's like 19 on
one and 29 on the other.
941
00:41:59,695 --> 00:42:02,598
They start showing up and look
where they're showing up.
942
00:42:02,732 --> 00:42:04,300
And look,
you're coming up to the heel.
943
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:05,535
[Tom] Yeah.
944
00:42:05,535 --> 00:42:07,270
[Rod] And also on the sock
was O.J. Simpson
945
00:42:07,403 --> 00:42:09,238
at the transfer stain,
the upper one.
946
00:42:09,372 --> 00:42:12,475
And look at the stain.
These are projected stains.
947
00:42:12,575 --> 00:42:14,477
And there's little ones.
There's big ones.
948
00:42:14,577 --> 00:42:19,916
That's a random distribution
of large and small drops from
949
00:42:19,916 --> 00:42:21,317
fighting.
950
00:42:21,417 --> 00:42:24,721
Here we start to see with
infrared photography and video
951
00:42:24,721 --> 00:42:29,125
projected stains that comes back
to the blood of who?
952
00:42:29,258 --> 00:42:30,560
- [Tom] Nicole Simpson.
- [Rod] Because you're the one
953
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,929
who told me that when you had to
go to a phone booth
954
00:42:32,929 --> 00:42:35,131
- and call you.
- These are the ones you counted.
955
00:42:35,131 --> 00:42:36,766
[Rod] That's right.
956
00:42:36,899 --> 00:42:38,735
So there's a lot of them
all around the socks.
957
00:42:38,735 --> 00:42:41,170
- [Tom] 360 degrees.
- [Rod] 360 degrees.
958
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:43,606
And there's a photograph
of Ron Goldman's boots.
959
00:42:43,606 --> 00:42:45,141
You know what's on
the side of his boots?
960
00:42:45,141 --> 00:42:46,576
Same type of projected stains.
961
00:42:46,576 --> 00:42:49,145
This is like a transfer stain
at the toe.
962
00:42:49,145 --> 00:42:51,614
- And guess who's blood that was?
- [Tom] Simpson's.
963
00:42:51,614 --> 00:42:52,915
[Rod] That's Simpson's blood.
964
00:42:52,915 --> 00:42:54,617
At the top and at the toe.
965
00:42:54,751 --> 00:42:56,753
And the same on the other
at the toe.
966
00:42:56,753 --> 00:42:59,655
[Tom] You've got Simpson's
blood, the suspect on the toe
967
00:42:59,789 --> 00:43:01,858
and at the top of the sock.
968
00:43:01,958 --> 00:43:05,328
You indicated how that got
there. And in the center,
969
00:43:05,461 --> 00:43:07,797
- you got projected blood.
- Exactly.
970
00:43:07,797 --> 00:43:10,099
From the victim.
And juror number seven,
971
00:43:10,099 --> 00:43:13,102
she never believed
he was guilty.
972
00:43:13,102 --> 00:43:15,505
Is this before she heard the
evidence, apparently.
973
00:43:15,638 --> 00:43:18,641
Thought that the physical
abuse side of the case
974
00:43:18,641 --> 00:43:23,546
was, quote, belongs somewhere
down the hall in another court.
975
00:43:23,646 --> 00:43:26,282
This was a murder trial.
The defense shows
976
00:43:26,282 --> 00:43:29,318
without any doubt that
that's exactly what it was.
977
00:43:29,452 --> 00:43:32,688
Yet she associated this
apparently with some kind of,
978
00:43:32,822 --> 00:43:36,492
uh, uh, abuse to the victim.
979
00:43:36,492 --> 00:43:38,961
Yeah, it was plenty of abuse,
but I guess it just didn't
980
00:43:38,961 --> 00:43:41,831
sink in that way with her.
981
00:43:41,964 --> 00:43:43,166
[911 operator]
Attention all units,
982
00:43:43,166 --> 00:43:44,133
domestic violence at 30--
correction,
983
00:43:44,133 --> 00:43:45,968
325 south crescent ring way,
984
00:43:45,968 --> 00:43:48,671
advise, the suspect has now
entered--
985
00:43:48,671 --> 00:43:52,475
[Nicole]
O.J., the kids are sleeping.
986
00:43:52,475 --> 00:43:54,811
[911 operator] 4-2-2-1 are the
825, children involved.
987
00:43:54,811 --> 00:43:56,345
[O.J.] You didn't give a shit
about the kids
988
00:43:56,345 --> 00:43:57,714
when they were fucking sitting
in the living room.
989
00:43:57,847 --> 00:43:58,648
They were here.
990
00:43:58,648 --> 00:44:01,918
You give my kids shit?
991
00:44:02,085 --> 00:44:05,655
Oh, it's different now...
992
00:44:07,356 --> 00:44:08,658
[Bill] My partner,
Detective Lange
993
00:44:08,658 --> 00:44:12,095
{\an8}enter interview room
in Parker Center.
994
00:44:12,195 --> 00:44:17,533
{\an8}Tand the time is 13:35 hours.
995
00:44:17,533 --> 00:44:19,102
And we're here
with O.J. Simpson,
996
00:44:19,102 --> 00:44:22,205
i
997
00:44:22,205 --> 00:44:24,941
And what is your birthdate?
998
00:44:25,108 --> 00:44:26,709
[O.J.] July 9, 1947.
999
00:44:26,843 --> 00:44:29,879
[Tom] Okay, prior to us talking
to you as we agreed
1000
00:44:29,879 --> 00:44:31,714
with your attorney,
I'm gonna give you...
1001
00:44:31,848 --> 00:44:36,119
Is my hair okay? Is there.
1002
00:44:36,219 --> 00:44:38,421
{\an8}Every time I meet someone and
they find out that I'm Kato,
1003
00:44:38,554 --> 00:44:41,124
{\an8}the witness in the trial, they
all want to be a part of it.
1004
00:44:41,224 --> 00:44:43,126
They all have a story,
and it's like, why do you
1005
00:44:43,126 --> 00:44:44,260
want to be associated with that?
1006
00:44:44,394 --> 00:44:45,862
I don't want to be
associated with that.
1007
00:44:45,862 --> 00:44:47,597
But they are coming up with
these different theories.
1008
00:44:47,730 --> 00:44:50,400
You know, if I'm a detective.
I'm going, geez,
1009
00:44:50,533 --> 00:44:53,136
Tom, you take this call.
It's the psychic.
1010
00:44:53,236 --> 00:44:56,139
I'll never forget when
detective Vannatter said to me,
1011
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,141
It's just there in my brain,
1012
00:44:58,241 --> 00:45:00,243
this is a two minute
Columbo episode
1013
00:45:00,243 --> 00:45:01,878
because we have
so much evidence.
1014
00:45:01,878 --> 00:45:03,813
And I was like, Oh, wow.
1015
00:45:03,913 --> 00:45:05,748
All of little pointed
in one direction.
1016
00:45:05,882 --> 00:45:08,084
[Reporter] Mark asked Kato if he
thought his new pal O.J.
1017
00:45:08,217 --> 00:45:10,219
could help his
struggling acting career.
1018
00:45:10,219 --> 00:45:12,488
I don't think we're going for
the same parts, right.
1019
00:45:12,588 --> 00:45:15,091
I'm going to L.A. to be an actor
and things are going okay.
1020
00:45:15,091 --> 00:45:17,593
And I was in a few commercials.
I was doing my things.
1021
00:45:17,593 --> 00:45:20,096
I kept going,
Hey, I could be Brad Pitt.
1022
00:45:20,229 --> 00:45:22,265
Oh, okay, maybe Armpit.
His brother.
1023
00:45:22,265 --> 00:45:24,267
- What's your name?
- Erin.
1024
00:45:24,267 --> 00:45:26,436
[Man] Any book deals or anything
happening for you?
1025
00:45:26,569 --> 00:45:27,937
Coloring book, maybe one day.
1026
00:45:27,937 --> 00:45:29,338
I'll do a coloring book.
We'll see.
1027
00:45:29,439 --> 00:45:30,606
Do you have a crayon?
1028
00:45:30,606 --> 00:45:31,974
You do. You do carry a crayon,
don't you?
1029
00:45:32,108 --> 00:45:33,242
I noticed that about you.
1030
00:45:33,242 --> 00:45:35,111
Everything has a blueprint
in your life,
1031
00:45:35,111 --> 00:45:36,446
and for whatever reason,
1032
00:45:36,446 --> 00:45:38,448
{\an8}mine was to be a witness
in this trial.
1033
00:45:38,581 --> 00:45:40,750
In 1994, my friend
produced a movie.
1034
00:45:40,750 --> 00:45:42,685
Believe it or not, I had the
script three months earlier
1035
00:45:42,785 --> 00:45:46,322
to Dumb and Dumber, and that was
the film that I was tested for.
1036
00:45:46,456 --> 00:45:48,357
And later in life I got to meet
the Farrelly brothers
1037
00:45:48,458 --> 00:45:50,626
who directed that film.
And I'm going,
1038
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,328
You guys got to hear this story.
1039
00:45:52,462 --> 00:45:54,464
[Tom] You were hanging around
O.J. for quite a while,
1040
00:45:54,597 --> 00:45:56,632
and you probably get opinions.
1041
00:45:56,632 --> 00:45:59,135
He was a wealthy guy. I wasn't.
So it was sort of like
1042
00:45:59,135 --> 00:46:02,071
he was tax bracket was Danish,
I was donuts.
1043
00:46:02,071 --> 00:46:07,076
So I converted that way.
He loved having people
1044
00:46:07,076 --> 00:46:08,644
make sure they knew it was him.
1045
00:46:08,644 --> 00:46:13,783
A neighbor told us that he saw
O.J. peeking in Nicole's window
1046
00:46:13,783 --> 00:46:17,353
and he was wearing
a dark colored knit cap.
1047
00:46:17,487 --> 00:46:21,157
Coincidentally, the same type
of knit cap at the crime scene.
1048
00:46:21,157 --> 00:46:22,525
[Kato] I Believe that
she was dating a guy,
1049
00:46:22,658 --> 00:46:24,827
that his name was Keith
at the time that I think
1050
00:46:24,961 --> 00:46:26,496
that was who O.J. was spying on.
1051
00:46:26,629 --> 00:46:28,865
[Tom] There's a lot of things in
this case that weren't brought
1052
00:46:28,998 --> 00:46:30,800
as evidence
that should have been brought.
1053
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,169
Marcia Clark's doing her job.
The only thing was
1054
00:46:33,302 --> 00:46:35,104
{\an8}I don't know why she called me
a hostile witness.
1055
00:46:35,104 --> 00:46:38,241
Basically what she's saying is
whatever Kato says,
1056
00:46:38,341 --> 00:46:40,009
it really means nothing.
1057
00:46:40,109 --> 00:46:44,347
{\an8}Kato was Kato and Kato didn't
give up a lot during that trial.
1058
00:46:44,347 --> 00:46:46,416
Probably just
because of that fact,
1059
00:46:46,516 --> 00:46:48,317
you're not going to cooperate.
I wouldn't either.
1060
00:46:48,317 --> 00:46:50,186
I think he was as forthright
as he could be,
1061
00:46:50,319 --> 00:46:52,021
and there's no reason
for him not to be.
1062
00:46:52,121 --> 00:46:54,490
Everybody's says and even the
media says, you know,
1063
00:46:54,490 --> 00:46:58,127
then the cops get involved.
And the biggest problem they had
1064
00:46:58,127 --> 00:47:00,329
is they concentrated
on O.J. Simpson.
1065
00:47:00,329 --> 00:47:02,165
They never looked at
another person.
1066
00:47:02,165 --> 00:47:04,067
That's all B.S.
That's not true.
1067
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,701
There's other people
that were suspects.
1068
00:47:05,835 --> 00:47:07,670
We actually have what we call
a clue file.
1069
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:10,373
And among those were
512 of these things
1070
00:47:10,506 --> 00:47:12,208
that we investigated.
And among them
1071
00:47:12,341 --> 00:47:14,610
were about 50
potential suspects.
1072
00:47:14,711 --> 00:47:16,713
- [Kato] 150?
- [Tom] Fifty, 5-0
1073
00:47:16,846 --> 00:47:18,347
potential suspects.
1074
00:47:18,347 --> 00:47:21,417
We spent months on other
possible suspects in this case.
1075
00:47:21,551 --> 00:47:24,087
It's all documented.
It was all turned over.
1076
00:47:24,087 --> 00:47:27,290
Go down here to, oh, look at
this, 317, what does that say?
1077
00:47:27,390 --> 00:47:30,593
[Kato] Kato killed the Nicole
because she broke up with Kato.
1078
00:47:30,727 --> 00:47:33,296
Suggest putting Kato
on the lie detector.
1079
00:47:33,396 --> 00:47:34,430
Well, it's not me.
1080
00:47:34,564 --> 00:47:36,432
- You know what the good news is?
- What?
1081
00:47:36,566 --> 00:47:37,900
- You're a three.
- I'm a three.
1082
00:47:37,900 --> 00:47:41,738
That's a Category three,
that's always good to know.
1083
00:47:41,738 --> 00:47:44,440
{\an8}On top of her head,
she also has a stab wound.
1084
00:47:44,574 --> 00:47:47,443
She has contusions.
There's another wound on her
1085
00:47:47,577 --> 00:47:49,112
that hasn't happened yet.
1086
00:47:55,685 --> 00:47:57,487
{\an8}O.J. Simpson's blood
on the toes.
1087
00:47:57,487 --> 00:48:00,223
{\an8}[Kato] His name was Keith.
That was who O.J. was spying on.
1088
00:48:00,323 --> 00:48:02,358
There's a lot of things in this
case that weren't brought
1089
00:48:02,492 --> 00:48:04,327
as evidence.
This was one of them.
1090
00:48:04,460 --> 00:48:07,063
Kato, suggest putting Kato
and the lie detector.
1091
00:48:07,063 --> 00:48:09,232
Well, it's not me.
1092
00:48:09,332 --> 00:48:12,835
{\an8}They're interviewing over 50
suspects, 5-0, and to know
1093
00:48:12,835 --> 00:48:15,138
they collected so much evidence
that never was used,
1094
00:48:15,138 --> 00:48:18,307
{\an8}- I'd be so pissed off.
- I told you we had this audio,
1095
00:48:18,307 --> 00:48:19,675
{\an8}I wanna play that
for you in a bit.
1096
00:48:19,809 --> 00:48:21,544
But looking around here
at all these pictures,
1097
00:48:21,677 --> 00:48:23,379
what does that look like?
This picture right here?
1098
00:48:23,513 --> 00:48:25,815
That's the old Kato room
right there. It's clean.
1099
00:48:25,815 --> 00:48:27,517
It was 5:00 or so
in the morning,
1100
00:48:27,517 --> 00:48:29,919
there's a knock at my door,
and all I saw to the door
1101
00:48:30,086 --> 00:48:32,255
were four guys.
And I just let you in.
1102
00:48:32,355 --> 00:48:34,490
I'm in a daze at that time,
I'm always in a daze
1103
00:48:34,490 --> 00:48:36,092
but I'm in a daze
because of sleep.
1104
00:48:36,092 --> 00:48:38,861
Picture this though, really,
four guys at 5:00 a.m.
1105
00:48:38,861 --> 00:48:40,730
coming to your door
and you don't even ask
1106
00:48:40,863 --> 00:48:43,199
if they're really police
and you say, Come on in.
1107
00:48:43,332 --> 00:48:45,368
He said to me, he said,
What did you wear last night?
1108
00:48:45,368 --> 00:48:47,703
And I said,
Oh, it's on that chair.
1109
00:48:47,703 --> 00:48:50,339
Now, you have to understand,
I don't know what's going on.
1110
00:48:50,339 --> 00:48:52,909
Then I start thinking,
something happened to O.J.
1111
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:54,277
is there plane crash?
1112
00:48:54,377 --> 00:48:56,713
Ten hours earlier?
Were you lying in bed?
1113
00:48:56,846 --> 00:48:59,115
Something happened.
I was on the phone.
1114
00:48:59,215 --> 00:49:02,218
I heard a noise,
and a picture moved,
1115
00:49:02,218 --> 00:49:03,786
and I said,
did we have an earthquake?
1116
00:49:03,886 --> 00:49:05,388
- To her on the phone?
- Yeah.
1117
00:49:05,521 --> 00:49:07,090
Sort of a...
like, what was that?
1118
00:49:07,223 --> 00:49:09,058
What's behind your bed wall,
on the outside?
1119
00:49:09,058 --> 00:49:11,127
There's an air conditioner.
And that's about it.
1120
00:49:11,227 --> 00:49:13,396
Does that look like the air
conditioning unit behind you?
1121
00:49:13,529 --> 00:49:15,798
Yeah. Someone said, you hear
anything unusual last night?
1122
00:49:15,898 --> 00:49:17,767
I said, I don't know if
this is an important thing,
1123
00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:19,769
but my picture moved.
But it might not be anything.
1124
00:49:19,902 --> 00:49:21,137
It happened behind this wall.
1125
00:49:21,237 --> 00:49:22,638
[Tom] Yeah, that was
kind of important
1126
00:49:22,739 --> 00:49:24,907
because right down here
was the glove, right?
1127
00:49:25,074 --> 00:49:26,976
- So it kind of was important.
- Yeah, it was important.
1128
00:49:27,076 --> 00:49:29,879
[Kato] Everybody remembers
the bloody glove, everybody.
1129
00:49:29,879 --> 00:49:32,415
[Tom] And so I get back to this
audio I was telling you about.
1130
00:49:32,548 --> 00:49:35,985
I want to get a feeling for what
you think about his responses.
1131
00:49:36,085 --> 00:49:38,154
This isn't interrogation.
If the cops are going to
1132
00:49:38,254 --> 00:49:40,623
interrogate somebody,
they usually confront them.
1133
00:49:40,757 --> 00:49:43,793
You don't do that with someone
like this, who's a sociopath.
1134
00:49:43,926 --> 00:49:45,661
Number two, probably
kick your ass anyway.
1135
00:49:45,762 --> 00:49:48,631
The audio for Kato was the
interview that Bill Vannatter
1136
00:49:48,765 --> 00:49:50,233
and I did with Simpson.
1137
00:49:50,233 --> 00:49:53,269
And this is about 14 hours after
the murders occurred.
1138
00:49:53,269 --> 00:49:55,638
At this point, Simpson is
not a suspect.
1139
00:49:55,772 --> 00:49:57,106
He's a potential suspect.
1140
00:49:57,106 --> 00:49:58,808
We still want to know
his side of things.
1141
00:49:58,941 --> 00:50:00,777
What's going on?
What did you do last night?
1142
00:50:00,910 --> 00:50:02,612
I know you just
got in from Chicago.
1143
00:50:02,745 --> 00:50:04,013
We had these terrible murders.
1144
00:50:04,113 --> 00:50:06,282
I want to see what
he's got to say about that.
1145
00:50:06,282 --> 00:50:08,518
{\an8}[Tom] We're investigating,
obviously, the death
1146
00:50:08,618 --> 00:50:13,356
{\an8}of your ex-wife
and another man.
1147
00:50:13,456 --> 00:50:14,757
{\an8}Someone told us that.
1148
00:50:14,757 --> 00:50:16,125
{\an8}How did you get the injury
on your hands?
1149
00:50:16,259 --> 00:50:17,693
{\an8}[O.J.] I don't know.
1150
00:50:17,794 --> 00:50:21,597
N
I was in Chicago, I know.
1151
00:50:21,597 --> 00:50:23,766
But at the house, I was just
running around and I--
1152
00:50:23,766 --> 00:50:25,501
[Tom] How'd you do it?
1153
00:50:25,635 --> 00:50:27,470
[O.J.] I broke a glass.
I just was--
1154
00:50:27,470 --> 00:50:29,639
you had, one of you guys had
just call me
1155
00:50:29,772 --> 00:50:32,542
and I was in the bathroom
and I was in the bathroom
a
1156
00:50:32,642 --> 00:50:34,010
for a little bit.
1157
00:50:34,143 --> 00:50:36,779
And it was a normal dance,
humbling, bumbling around.
1158
00:50:36,779 --> 00:50:41,017
Well, you know, I cut it
back in Chicago on a glass,
1159
00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:43,820
on a drinking glass.
I cut my fingers all the time.
1160
00:50:43,820 --> 00:50:46,856
You know, I'm playing golf,
I'm doing this, I'm doing that.
1161
00:50:46,989 --> 00:50:49,492
So we're getting two or three
different scenarios.
1162
00:50:49,492 --> 00:50:51,027
[Tom] If you recall,
bleeding at all
1163
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,329
in the truck, in the Bronco?
1164
00:50:53,329 --> 00:50:55,732
[O.J.] I recall bleeding
at my house.
1165
00:50:55,832 --> 00:50:58,835
And then I went to the--
went to the Bronco.
1166
00:50:58,835 --> 00:51:02,805
The last thing I did
The last thing I did
b
1167
00:51:02,805 --> 00:51:05,007
was I went and got my phone
out of the Bronco.
1168
00:51:05,141 --> 00:51:06,876
[Tom] Do you recall
bleeding at all?
1169
00:51:07,009 --> 00:51:09,178
Yeah. I mean, I knew I was
bleeding. It was no big deal.
1170
00:51:09,178 --> 00:51:12,548
I bleed all the time, I mean,
I bleed all the time, I mean,
I
1171
00:51:12,682 --> 00:51:14,517
There's always some knicks
and stuff.
1172
00:51:14,517 --> 00:51:16,486
But if you cut it in Chicago,
you stick with it,
1173
00:51:16,486 --> 00:51:19,188
you don't say, Well, I might
have cut it over here.
1174
00:51:19,322 --> 00:51:21,124
I might have done this
and I'm cut--and like,
1175
00:51:21,124 --> 00:51:23,259
it's no big thing. Let's forget
about it and move on.
1176
00:51:23,359 --> 00:51:24,660
That's what he wanted.
1177
00:51:24,660 --> 00:51:29,565
Most important evidence now
is blood. Blood evidence.
1178
00:51:29,699 --> 00:51:31,134
[Bill] You haven't had any
problems with her lately,
1179
00:51:31,134 --> 00:51:34,704
have you?
1180
00:51:34,837 --> 00:51:37,206
[O.J.] I always have problems
with her, you know,
1181
00:51:37,206 --> 00:51:42,345
I guess our relationship
has been a problem relationship.
1182
00:51:42,345 --> 00:51:45,048
[Bill] O.J., well,
that's sort of a problem.
1183
00:51:45,181 --> 00:51:49,585
We've got some blood on
and in your car.
1184
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:51,888
Y
1185
00:51:51,888 --> 00:51:54,757
and sort of a problem with it.
1186
00:51:54,891 --> 00:51:56,292
[O.J.] Well,
we'll take my blood test.
1187
00:51:56,392 --> 00:51:58,294
[Tom] Well,
we'd like to do that.
1188
00:51:58,394 --> 00:52:00,463
We've got to, of course,
the cut on your finger
1189
00:52:00,563 --> 00:52:06,202
that you don't--
not real clear on.
1190
00:52:06,202 --> 00:52:09,539
Bleeding with the middle left
finger left side of his body.
1191
00:52:09,539 --> 00:52:11,808
So right away
the wheels start spinning.
1192
00:52:11,908 --> 00:52:13,643
I want to find out
about that finger.
1193
00:52:13,743 --> 00:52:16,112
So I'm building this rapport
and it worked.
1194
00:52:16,112 --> 00:52:18,715
He didn't invoke,
as a consequence,
1195
00:52:18,715 --> 00:52:22,985
we ended up him cooperating and
letting us look at his finger.
1196
00:52:23,119 --> 00:52:25,621
Do you recall having that cut
on your finger the last time
1197
00:52:25,755 --> 00:52:27,123
you were at Nicole's house?
1198
00:52:27,123 --> 00:52:28,891
[O.J.] A week ago?
No, no.
1199
00:52:28,891 --> 00:52:31,127
- [Tom] So it's been since...
- [O.J.] Yeah, right.
1200
00:52:31,127 --> 00:52:32,328
Since last night.
1201
00:52:32,428 --> 00:52:34,931
So intense and now he's like,
oh I got to cut.
1202
00:52:34,931 --> 00:52:37,300
I don't, I don't know
the cut, where I got it.
1203
00:52:37,433 --> 00:52:40,269
He's thinking now
what can he say?
1204
00:52:40,269 --> 00:52:42,905
I think you're right.
I think you're right.
1205
00:52:42,905 --> 00:52:44,407
O.J., you're bleeding.
1206
00:52:44,407 --> 00:52:46,976
We'll maybe have somebody
take a look at that,
1207
00:52:47,143 --> 00:52:49,312
put a Band-Aid on it, and he
said, Oh, no, that's fine,
1208
00:52:49,445 --> 00:52:51,147
everything's okay.
The back of my mind,
1209
00:52:51,147 --> 00:52:54,951
I'm thinking evidence. Meanwhile
he gives us three really sketchy
1210
00:52:55,151 --> 00:52:57,153
responses about how
he cut his finger.
1211
00:52:57,253 --> 00:52:58,454
[Bill] What do you think
happened?
1212
00:52:58,588 --> 00:53:00,957
[O.J.] I had no idea, man.
1213
00:53:01,090 --> 00:53:03,359
You guys haven't
told me anything.
1214
00:53:03,459 --> 00:53:06,295
I have no idea what happened
when you said to my daughter,
1215
00:53:06,295 --> 00:53:08,297
said something to me today
that somebody else
1216
00:53:08,297 --> 00:53:11,100
might have been involved.
might have been involved.
I
1217
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:14,170
w
why or what?
1218
00:53:14,303 --> 00:53:15,805
You guys haven't
told me anything.
1219
00:53:15,805 --> 00:53:17,640
Every time I asked you guys,
are you going to tell me?
1220
00:53:17,774 --> 00:53:20,143
[Tom] Well, we don't we don't
know a lot of the answers
1221
00:53:20,276 --> 00:53:24,847
to those questions yet ourself
O.J., okay?
1222
00:53:24,981 --> 00:53:26,849
[Bill] Did you ever hit her
O.J.?
1223
00:53:26,983 --> 00:53:29,152
[O.J.] Uh... That one night,
we had a fight that night.
1224
00:53:29,285 --> 00:53:32,288
That night we had a fight.
She hit me, you know.
1225
00:53:32,288 --> 00:53:34,624
And as I said,
they never took my statement.
1226
00:53:34,624 --> 00:53:37,460
T
They never want to hear
1227
00:53:37,460 --> 00:53:39,328
the housekeeper's side.
Nicole was drunk.
1228
00:53:39,328 --> 00:53:42,165
She did her thing.
She did her thing.
S
1229
00:53:42,298 --> 00:53:43,399
She hit me.
1230
00:53:43,499 --> 00:53:45,668
I, I, I got to tell you,
just listen to this.
1231
00:53:45,668 --> 00:53:47,837
It's sort of--
1232
00:53:47,837 --> 00:53:49,338
she's dead, right?
1233
00:53:49,472 --> 00:53:51,174
Let's what else we got here.
1234
00:53:51,307 --> 00:53:54,043
[O.J.] I didn't punch her or
anything, but I, I, you know--
1235
00:53:54,177 --> 00:53:55,478
[Bill]
Slapped her a couple times.
1236
00:53:55,478 --> 00:53:57,847
[O.J.] No, no, I wrastled her
is what I did.
1237
00:53:57,980 --> 00:54:00,817
I haven't slapped her at all.
Nicole's a strong girl.
1238
00:54:00,817 --> 00:54:03,686
{\an8}She's a [scoffs] one of
the most conditioned women
1239
00:54:03,820 --> 00:54:06,322
{\an8}since that period of time.
She's hit me a few times,
1240
00:54:06,322 --> 00:54:08,091
but I've never touched her
after that.
1241
00:54:08,091 --> 00:54:10,159
[Tom] Did Mr. Weissman, your
your lawyer, your attorney
1242
00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:12,095
talk to you anything
about this polygraph?
1243
00:54:12,195 --> 00:54:13,830
About us performing one?
1244
00:54:13,830 --> 00:54:15,531
But what are your thoughts on
that?
1245
00:54:15,531 --> 00:54:17,200
[O.J.] Should I talk about my
thoughts on that?
1246
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,202
You know, I mean, I'm sure
eventually I'll do it.
1247
00:54:19,335 --> 00:54:21,704
But it's like I got some
weird thoughts now.
1248
00:54:21,704 --> 00:54:23,740
[Tom] The reason we're
talking to you is you're,
1249
00:54:23,873 --> 00:54:25,108
you're the ex-husband.
1250
00:54:25,108 --> 00:54:27,377
[O.J.] I know I'm
the number one target.
1251
00:54:27,510 --> 00:54:29,779
And now you're telling me
And now you're telling me
I
1252
00:54:29,879 --> 00:54:32,115
[Tom] Well, there's blood at
your house in the driveway
1253
00:54:32,115 --> 00:54:34,450
and that footstep,
we got a search warrant.
1254
00:54:34,550 --> 00:54:35,918
W
1255
00:54:36,119 --> 00:54:37,920
[Bill] Is that your blood?
This drip there.
1256
00:54:38,121 --> 00:54:41,391
[O.J.] If this is what I dripped
running around trying to leave.
1257
00:54:41,391 --> 00:54:43,292
- [Tom] Last night?
- [O.J.] Yeah and I wasn't aware
1258
00:54:43,393 --> 00:54:46,796
that it-- I was aware that
I you know, I was trying to
1259
00:54:46,896 --> 00:54:49,966
get out of the house. I didn't
pay any attention to it.
1260
00:54:50,133 --> 00:54:52,402
I mean, you've got to be,
like just pissed off.
1261
00:54:52,535 --> 00:54:54,404
Why aren't they using
this stuff that we found?
1262
00:54:54,404 --> 00:54:56,906
It was never put on as evidence
and it should have been.
1263
00:54:56,906 --> 00:54:59,742
Could have sent you or me to
prison for the rest of our life.
1264
00:54:59,742 --> 00:55:01,744
[Kato] I can tell you one thing
I keep close to my heart
1265
00:55:01,744 --> 00:55:03,913
is to know where I came from
and all that and I still have
1266
00:55:03,913 --> 00:55:07,984
my house guest key
and yeah...
1267
00:55:11,921 --> 00:55:15,725
Much of autopsy photos trying to
determine what happened.
1268
00:55:15,725 --> 00:55:19,095
Now, again, the blood tells the
story, but the wounds
1269
00:55:19,095 --> 00:55:20,430
also tell the story.
1270
00:55:20,563 --> 00:55:22,298
{\an8}Well, one thing,
the body is evidence
1271
00:55:22,432 --> 00:55:24,767
{\an8}and then the clothing that the
person wears is evidence.
1272
00:55:24,901 --> 00:55:27,403
And one other thing that
people don't regard a lot
1273
00:55:27,403 --> 00:55:31,507
is the lack of blood in certain
areas is also evidence.
1274
00:55:31,607 --> 00:55:36,245
She goes down because of these
four stab wounds, that here,
1275
00:55:36,245 --> 00:55:41,951
that penetrate her heart and it
had to be a long bladed knife
1276
00:55:42,118 --> 00:55:45,455
to go that deep.
On top of her head,
1277
00:55:45,588 --> 00:55:48,424
she also has a stab wound.
She has contusions.
1278
00:55:48,424 --> 00:55:50,326
This would put somebody down
very quickly.
1279
00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:53,596
There's another wound on her
that hasn't happened yet
1280
00:55:53,596 --> 00:55:55,698
because Ron Goldman walks up.
1281
00:55:55,798 --> 00:55:59,035
He is stabbed multiple, multiple
times. He's in a fight.
1282
00:55:59,135 --> 00:56:02,105
Look at all the
defensive wounds on him.
1283
00:56:02,105 --> 00:56:04,474
He is struggling
with everything within him.
1284
00:56:04,474 --> 00:56:08,978
There's a total of 29 stabbing
wounds, cuts, defensive wounds.
1285
00:56:09,078 --> 00:56:11,881
And this happened, as we know,
in seconds.
1286
00:56:11,981 --> 00:56:13,483
There's what's called
a swallowtail,
1287
00:56:13,616 --> 00:56:17,387
if you will look at this,
you'll see that the knife is in
1288
00:56:17,487 --> 00:56:19,489
its down deep in his neck.
1289
00:56:19,622 --> 00:56:22,191
Now this is a long bladed knife.
Here's what's significant.
1290
00:56:22,325 --> 00:56:25,728
This swallowtail means that the
knife cut at this plane
1291
00:56:25,828 --> 00:56:28,364
and then the knife shifted
and cut at this plane.
1292
00:56:28,498 --> 00:56:30,800
Do you know why it shifted?
It's because he's moving.
1293
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,169
He's got a knife in his neck
and he is struggling
1294
00:56:33,302 --> 00:56:35,838
and he is still up.
Now, one thing that tells me
1295
00:56:35,838 --> 00:56:38,508
that he was up
a significant amount of time
1296
00:56:38,508 --> 00:56:42,245
is the wounds to his body
bled as he is standing.
1297
00:56:42,345 --> 00:56:45,181
If you go shift over to the
picture of his pants
1298
00:56:45,181 --> 00:56:48,317
that are over here on the wall,
it's down both sides,
1299
00:56:48,317 --> 00:56:51,154
this doesn't happen when you're
laying in on the ground
1300
00:56:51,154 --> 00:56:52,688
in the position that he's in.
1301
00:56:52,822 --> 00:56:54,690
Look at all the way down
on the right side.
1302
00:56:54,824 --> 00:56:56,826
- Sure.
- Huge amount of blood.
1303
00:56:56,826 --> 00:56:59,195
But it takes a little time
to soak, and to run.
1304
00:56:59,195 --> 00:57:00,530
So he's fighting.
1305
00:57:00,663 --> 00:57:03,066
This kid is fighting
with everything within him.
1306
00:57:03,166 --> 00:57:05,068
Even with the wounds,
he's not going to go down
1307
00:57:05,068 --> 00:57:07,437
because he's trying to save
that person's life
1308
00:57:07,537 --> 00:57:09,705
that's laying there, that he's
delivering the glasses to,
1309
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:11,340
that's laying down on that step.
1310
00:57:11,340 --> 00:57:13,076
[Tom] And you can tell
by the lack of blood,
1311
00:57:13,176 --> 00:57:15,344
- they're perimortem wounds.
- [Rod] Exactly.
1312
00:57:15,344 --> 00:57:17,380
She has abrasions from
consistent with going down
1313
00:57:17,513 --> 00:57:20,083
against that tree.
So he's in a fight.
1314
00:57:20,083 --> 00:57:22,685
So now he's down
and he's seated on his buttocks.
1315
00:57:22,685 --> 00:57:24,721
He has his back
up against the fence,
1316
00:57:24,854 --> 00:57:27,724
the attacker could have left
the scene at that time.
1317
00:57:27,857 --> 00:57:29,559
But that's when
the attacker goes over
1318
00:57:29,692 --> 00:57:32,695
and we've already looked at
the wounds of Nicole Simpson,
1319
00:57:32,695 --> 00:57:36,432
but the one that is going to
ensure that she's going to die.
1320
00:57:36,566 --> 00:57:38,935
[Allan] You know,
made the second call at 10:44.
1321
00:57:39,102 --> 00:57:42,405
He made the third call.
I think we're up to about 10:46
1322
00:57:42,538 --> 00:57:46,743
at about that time.
That's when I see a dark figure
1323
00:57:46,743 --> 00:57:48,311
come across the driveway here.
1324
00:57:54,317 --> 00:57:57,019
{\an8}I heard a noise,
a picture moved.
1325
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,122
Sort of a...
like, what was that?
1326
00:57:59,122 --> 00:58:01,224
[O.J.] I know I'm
the number one target.
1327
00:58:01,357 --> 00:58:03,226
You've got to be, like,
just pissed off.
1328
00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:05,094
[O.J.] I knew I was bleeding,
but it was no big deal.
1329
00:58:05,228 --> 00:58:05,962
I bleed all the time.
1330
00:58:06,062 --> 00:58:07,430
[Tom] The blood tells the story,
1331
00:58:07,563 --> 00:58:10,700
but the wounds also
tell a story.
1332
00:58:10,700 --> 00:58:13,636
{\an8}[Rod] And we've already looked
at the wounds of Nicole Simpson,
1333
00:58:13,736 --> 00:58:17,140
but the one that is going to
ensure that she's going to die.
1334
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:18,474
That's right here.
1335
00:58:18,574 --> 00:58:20,109
This is cut all the way
back to the vertebrae.
1336
00:58:20,243 --> 00:58:21,711
But the attacker
didn't stop there.
1337
00:58:21,711 --> 00:58:24,647
Turns and goes back to
Ron Goldman,
1338
00:58:24,747 --> 00:58:26,883
which is just a step
and pulls him over.
1339
00:58:26,883 --> 00:58:29,152
That's when you saw
his shirt way up.
1340
00:58:29,252 --> 00:58:30,920
Sure, these are grab marks
on the shirt.
1341
00:58:31,087 --> 00:58:32,288
- [Tom] Goldman's shirt.
- [Rod] That's what they--
1342
00:58:32,422 --> 00:58:33,723
that's a pattern.
That's another pattern.
1343
00:58:33,723 --> 00:58:37,393
And grabs him and then goes from
his right to his left
1344
00:58:37,393 --> 00:58:39,495
with the same knife
cutting his throat.
1345
00:58:39,595 --> 00:58:43,499
And that's insurance
that both of them are dead.
1346
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:45,134
Got everything but
a serial number.
1347
00:58:45,268 --> 00:58:47,603
I mean, with all of these
wounds, people will say, well,
1348
00:58:47,737 --> 00:58:49,639
there's two different knives
and all that is
1349
00:58:49,772 --> 00:58:51,174
is an intersecting wound.
1350
00:58:51,274 --> 00:58:54,310
[Rod] Just imagine Nicole was
probably playing with her Akita.
1351
00:58:54,444 --> 00:58:55,845
- Yeah.
- The door rings or something,
1352
00:58:55,945 --> 00:58:59,482
and she goes out,
life is over in seconds.
1353
00:58:59,615 --> 00:59:02,251
- My gosh.
- You know you're going to die.
1354
00:59:02,251 --> 00:59:05,121
You don't see it. If I could--
You know you're going to die.
1355
00:59:05,121 --> 00:59:07,123
This is nine months
after the trial,
1356
00:59:07,123 --> 00:59:09,459
jurors are appearing on things
like Larry King,
1357
00:59:09,459 --> 00:59:12,295
juror number three,
female, white, age 60.
1358
00:59:12,295 --> 00:59:15,631
She states she feels
he was guilty,
1359
00:59:15,631 --> 00:59:19,635
but the evidence wasn't there
and I've got, huh?
1360
00:59:19,769 --> 00:59:21,804
With a big question mark, I
don't care if he was guilty
1361
00:59:21,804 --> 00:59:24,073
or not guilty, you didn't look
at the evidence.
1362
00:59:24,073 --> 00:59:25,875
But there was other things
in this, too,
1363
00:59:25,975 --> 00:59:28,077
that was very important
that need to be brought out.
1364
00:59:28,077 --> 00:59:32,548
And one of them was a photograph
of Nicole in a little negligee,
1365
00:59:32,648 --> 00:59:34,717
a black negligee
that she was wearing.
1366
00:59:34,817 --> 00:59:37,820
There was a pattern
on that negligee
1367
00:59:37,954 --> 00:59:41,157
right under her right arm
on her back.
1368
00:59:41,290 --> 00:59:42,892
And it appeared to be
a footprint.
1369
00:59:42,992 --> 00:59:44,227
And it was very well defined,
1370
00:59:44,327 --> 00:59:46,362
but a good picture
wasn't taken of it.
1371
00:59:46,496 --> 00:59:48,331
[Tom] You circled something
here. What did you circle?
1372
00:59:48,331 --> 00:59:50,900
[Rod] I did. When I looked at
this clothing.
1373
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,704
This was a footprint type
impression in like mud and blood
1374
00:59:54,837 --> 00:59:56,239
on her back.
1375
00:59:56,339 --> 00:59:59,008
There was a lot of flaky blood
there. Doesn't show it here.
1376
00:59:59,108 --> 01:00:01,411
Now, what does that mean?
That means that blood
1377
01:00:01,511 --> 01:00:03,913
had to be on the ground
before this was applied, right?
1378
01:00:04,013 --> 01:00:06,182
- Yeah.
- And so this is a
1379
01:00:06,315 --> 01:00:10,686
stomp impression before he left,
which includes that--
1380
01:00:10,820 --> 01:00:13,256
there's that rage
and it's right here
1381
01:00:13,356 --> 01:00:15,525
on her back
underneath the clothing.
1382
01:00:15,525 --> 01:00:17,894
Looks like a shoe impression,
which is bruising,
1383
01:00:18,027 --> 01:00:19,829
which means her heart
is still beating.
1384
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:21,564
- Right.
- So she had a little bit of life
1385
01:00:21,697 --> 01:00:23,433
left in her in those
few seconds that it took
1386
01:00:23,533 --> 01:00:27,703
this thing to occur and here you
have that pattern.
1387
01:00:27,837 --> 01:00:33,376
That's not lividity. So that is
a last final, you know...
1388
01:00:33,676 --> 01:00:34,944
He's thinking.
1389
01:00:34,944 --> 01:00:36,379
I don't want to say it.
1390
01:00:36,379 --> 01:00:39,682
- You testify to that?
- That's a medical examiner's.
1391
01:00:39,682 --> 01:00:41,718
- And we had it.
- Who found it?
1392
01:00:41,851 --> 01:00:44,220
- Well, I found it.
- Yeah. You're supposed to share
1393
01:00:44,220 --> 01:00:47,557
- with the prosecutor, right?
- Right. Well, we did.
1394
01:00:47,557 --> 01:00:50,126
I know you did. We've shared a
lot with the prosecutor.
1395
01:00:50,226 --> 01:00:53,563
- We just didn't see it in trial.
- Right. Right.
1396
01:00:53,563 --> 01:00:56,632
You have to look at every piece
of evidence, every piece,
1397
01:00:56,733 --> 01:00:59,435
looking at everything
in order to reconstruct.
1398
01:00:59,569 --> 01:01:01,704
In Ron Goldman's shirt
had two patterns
1399
01:01:01,704 --> 01:01:04,907
on the back of the shirt
and they were grab patterns.
1400
01:01:04,907 --> 01:01:06,576
[Tom] This is Ron Goldman's
shirt.
1401
01:01:06,709 --> 01:01:07,910
[Rod] Okay. This is very
interesting.
1402
01:01:08,111 --> 01:01:10,646
This is something that
wasn't used in the trial.
1403
01:01:10,747 --> 01:01:14,217
But these are hand transfers.
1404
01:01:14,217 --> 01:01:17,153
And I looked at that,
took pictures of that
1405
01:01:17,253 --> 01:01:20,890
and actually picked hairs
off of the front of that jacket.
1406
01:01:20,890 --> 01:01:23,926
This is consistent with a
grabbing of the material
1407
01:01:24,127 --> 01:01:27,230
and in the struggle
or pulling him over to his side
1408
01:01:27,230 --> 01:01:29,132
when he's up against the fence.
1409
01:01:29,132 --> 01:01:31,267
And that's why you see what
looks like fingers
1410
01:01:31,401 --> 01:01:34,303
in the voids in between, because
the blood can't get there.
1411
01:01:34,437 --> 01:01:37,440
And you have sort of a twisting
action that is here
1412
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,510
in both of these. If I grabbed
you with the bloody hand,
1413
01:01:40,610 --> 01:01:42,245
I'm going to grab you
1414
01:01:42,245 --> 01:01:44,180
when it's released
and goes to the lab.
1415
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,649
The laboratory will
lay it out flat
1416
01:01:46,783 --> 01:01:50,153
and then you will see voids,
blood can't get down in there.
1417
01:01:50,253 --> 01:01:52,288
And that's why you see
what looks like fingers
1418
01:01:52,288 --> 01:01:55,258
in the voids in between because
the blood can't get there.
1419
01:01:55,258 --> 01:01:58,494
And you have a sort of a
twisting action that is here
1420
01:01:58,628 --> 01:02:00,963
- in both of these.
- Same time you showed the DA
1421
01:02:01,097 --> 01:02:03,199
- the pictures?
- Yes. And explained
1422
01:02:03,299 --> 01:02:05,835
what the grab marks were.
Yeah. It's not a stab and run.
1423
01:02:05,968 --> 01:02:08,137
This is going to tell us what
happened during the struggle.
1424
01:02:08,137 --> 01:02:10,440
So the jury sitting there,
they don't know about this.
1425
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:10,506
Man to man, right?
1426
01:02:11,407 --> 01:02:12,875
Ron Goldman had no stab wounds
in his back.
1427
01:02:12,975 --> 01:02:14,977
They were at the side
and there were five defects
1428
01:02:15,111 --> 01:02:18,381
in the back of the shirt, but he
had no stab wounds in his back.
1429
01:02:18,481 --> 01:02:20,650
What does that mean? It's
consistent with the struggle.
1430
01:02:20,650 --> 01:02:24,854
Struggle around while the
jacket, the shirt is being held
1431
01:02:24,987 --> 01:02:27,323
tightly, and then it's twisted
in such a way
1432
01:02:27,323 --> 01:02:30,827
that when he's stabbed, he's
actually stabbing into his side.
1433
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,729
That's just indicative
of a struggle.
1434
01:02:32,829 --> 01:02:34,864
There were superficial wounds
on his neck.
1435
01:02:34,997 --> 01:02:37,834
These are just simply wounds
where the attacker
1436
01:02:37,834 --> 01:02:40,536
couldn't get the knife in
trying to cut the throat.
1437
01:02:40,670 --> 01:02:43,473
What came between
were these appendages the hands,
1438
01:02:43,473 --> 01:02:46,743
the gloves on the hand
in this fight, this is going on.
1439
01:02:46,843 --> 01:02:49,512
- Yeah.
- And there's a there's has to be
1440
01:02:49,645 --> 01:02:52,749
an arm around the neck
of Ron Goldman because
1441
01:02:52,849 --> 01:02:54,717
the glove comes off.
I mean, he's not going to
1442
01:02:54,851 --> 01:02:56,018
turn around, say,
hey, stop fighting.
1443
01:02:56,152 --> 01:02:57,687
I'ma take off the glove.
You just don't do that.
1444
01:02:57,687 --> 01:02:59,155
This is a struggle.
1445
01:02:59,155 --> 01:03:01,190
[Tom] Recovered a bunch of
gloves from Simpson's house
1446
01:03:01,190 --> 01:03:03,559
per the search warrant
and I was told to go in
1447
01:03:03,693 --> 01:03:08,097
and in court, open court
out of the presence of the jury,
1448
01:03:08,097 --> 01:03:10,733
prosecutors here,
defense lawyers here,
1449
01:03:10,867 --> 01:03:13,102
investigators behind them
and I'm just kind of
1450
01:03:13,102 --> 01:03:16,873
looking over the top and they
don't want me to be looking.
1451
01:03:17,006 --> 01:03:18,941
And I said, wait a minute.
I've been instructed to watch
1452
01:03:19,108 --> 01:03:21,277
what he's doing when
he puts the gloves on,
1453
01:03:21,277 --> 01:03:21,377
[Man] You think O.J. had a bag
with the bloody clothes
1454
01:03:22,378 --> 01:03:23,613
because every time he put
a new pair of gloves on,
1455
01:03:23,713 --> 01:03:26,115
he's under the counsel table
like this, putting them on,
1456
01:03:26,215 --> 01:03:27,717
well, they were
slipping right on.
1457
01:03:27,717 --> 01:03:30,386
These are from my house?
Simpson is asking me.
1458
01:03:30,386 --> 01:03:31,888
These are from my house?
1459
01:03:32,021 --> 01:03:34,357
No, no, no talking. No talking.
They shut me up real quick.
1460
01:03:34,357 --> 01:03:34,424
[Tom] Mr. Simpson, you have the
right to remain silent.
1461
01:03:35,425 --> 01:03:36,225
This again, was out of the
presence of the jury.
1462
01:03:36,592 --> 01:03:39,128
But again, they're just trying
to cover this stuff up.
1463
01:03:39,228 --> 01:03:42,131
You got to keep it simple.
Be able to explain it.
1464
01:03:42,231 --> 01:03:44,133
Don't talk over anybody
at a level
1465
01:03:44,233 --> 01:03:45,468
that they don't understand.
1466
01:03:45,568 --> 01:03:47,136
I'm not the best artist
in the world.
1467
01:03:47,136 --> 01:03:49,439
You know, this is
Nicole Simpson's wounds.
1468
01:03:49,572 --> 01:03:52,642
She had seven stab wounds
to neck and the scalp.
1469
01:03:52,742 --> 01:03:55,144
I describe the severed wound
on her neck.
1470
01:03:55,244 --> 01:03:58,214
There's not one thing
that's not explainable.
1471
01:03:58,214 --> 01:04:00,750
[Tom] Somebody made a quote
about it sounds like
1472
01:04:00,750 --> 01:04:02,785
we screwed everything up.
I said, you know,
1473
01:04:02,919 --> 01:04:04,754
we screwed this case up
at every level
1474
01:04:04,754 --> 01:04:07,590
and everything still comes back
pointing at Simpson,
1475
01:04:07,590 --> 01:04:10,493
there was nothing exculpatory
in this case
1476
01:04:10,593 --> 01:04:13,096
that was substantive nature.
And by that, I mean
1477
01:04:13,096 --> 01:04:15,164
{\an8}there's nothing anybody could
point to that says,
1478
01:04:15,264 --> 01:04:17,834
well, maybe he didn't do it,
which is very rare
1479
01:04:17,934 --> 01:04:19,135
in any murder case.
1480
01:04:19,268 --> 01:04:20,636
Would you use these
testifying in court?
1481
01:04:20,770 --> 01:04:22,105
[Rod] Oh, I'd have them
in front of me.
1482
01:04:22,105 --> 01:04:23,406
[Tom] That's why you did this.
1483
01:04:23,406 --> 01:04:25,475
And I would provide the defense
a copy of these.
1484
01:04:25,608 --> 01:04:27,777
- That's what you did.
- I don't hide these.
1485
01:04:27,910 --> 01:04:29,579
They never ask for my numbers.
1486
01:04:29,579 --> 01:04:34,851
10-11-1994, a few months after
it happened on June 12th.
1487
01:04:34,951 --> 01:04:36,753
- For the trial.
- And here we have the autopsy,
1488
01:04:36,753 --> 01:04:39,255
the transection of the neck,
the left jugular.
1489
01:04:39,255 --> 01:04:43,126
That gives me where the wound
started, you know,
1490
01:04:43,259 --> 01:04:46,796
from his right to his left,
because it comes deeper,
1491
01:04:46,796 --> 01:04:49,699
starts shallower, and then we
have multiple stab wounds
1492
01:04:49,799 --> 01:04:51,968
to the chest and the abdomen
and the thigh.
1493
01:04:52,135 --> 01:04:54,504
That's why you have all the
bleeding that we have
1494
01:04:54,637 --> 01:04:58,975
on his pants and numerous
bruises, abrasions, cuts,
1495
01:04:58,975 --> 01:05:01,978
stab wounds, the left jugular.
1496
01:05:02,111 --> 01:05:04,680
You know where my reports
had to go?
1497
01:05:04,814 --> 01:05:06,849
Did you--are you aware
that I was not allowed
1498
01:05:06,983 --> 01:05:09,652
to send my reports
to who I worked for
1499
01:05:09,652 --> 01:05:12,789
and was hired by
and retained by the prosecution?
1500
01:05:12,789 --> 01:05:18,127
I was ordered to send everything
everything to Judge Ito.
1501
01:05:18,127 --> 01:05:20,196
So I think the ball
is in your court to justify.
1502
01:05:20,329 --> 01:05:22,165
That's the strangest thing
I've ever had happened.
1503
01:05:22,165 --> 01:05:24,100
Who ordered you to send
everything to judge Ito?
1504
01:05:24,100 --> 01:05:25,835
Judge Ito did.
You didn't know that, did you?
1505
01:05:25,835 --> 01:05:27,136
No, I didn't know that.
1506
01:05:27,136 --> 01:05:29,672
The National Enquirer was
setting up some kind of
1507
01:05:29,806 --> 01:05:33,509
a command post in Simi Valley
to do some background on me.
1508
01:05:33,643 --> 01:05:37,346
Sunday, March 12th. I got one of
my daughters, 11 years old,
1509
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:38,881
and I'm taking her
to Sunday school.
1510
01:05:39,015 --> 01:05:41,517
Back around this time,
they still had phone booths
1511
01:05:41,651 --> 01:05:43,686
and there was a phone booth
outside the service station.
1512
01:05:43,686 --> 01:05:46,022
And I look over
and I do a double take.
1513
01:05:46,122 --> 01:05:49,192
If it wasn't Carl Douglas,
the defense attorney,
1514
01:05:49,192 --> 01:05:50,860
then he's got
a double somewhere.
1515
01:05:50,860 --> 01:05:53,896
I live in Simi Valley and
everybody knows that's where
1516
01:05:54,030 --> 01:05:58,234
the Rodney King trial occurred.
So people who are racists,
1517
01:05:58,367 --> 01:06:01,337
and who are dirty cops,
who plant evidence,
1518
01:06:01,337 --> 01:06:02,905
they must live in Simi Valley.
1519
01:06:03,072 --> 01:06:05,441
Three times, while I was on the
stand, Cochran asked me
1520
01:06:05,541 --> 01:06:07,910
about Simi Valley,
to tie me into that.
1521
01:06:08,077 --> 01:06:10,279
So I look at this
and I'm thinking, Well, yeah,
1522
01:06:10,380 --> 01:06:11,781
they tried to push this thing.
1523
01:06:11,881 --> 01:06:13,416
This is not a racist valley.
1524
01:06:13,549 --> 01:06:17,587
In a high profile case,
especially one that's televised,
1525
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:21,290
to 55 million people a day.
The court wants to maintain
1526
01:06:21,391 --> 01:06:24,093
some type of control,
I would think.
1527
01:06:24,093 --> 01:06:26,095
Not true necessarily
in this case.
1528
01:06:26,095 --> 01:06:28,231
{\an8}Stop this cover up.
1529
01:06:28,231 --> 01:06:30,967
If you have the defense
going to the media
1530
01:06:31,100 --> 01:06:34,370
two or three times a day
during trial,
1531
01:06:34,370 --> 01:06:37,440
going after witnesses, the court
should have instructed
1532
01:06:37,573 --> 01:06:41,477
all the attorneys, cops,
anybody else involved
1533
01:06:41,577 --> 01:06:44,580
that they should not talk to
anybody about any evidence
1534
01:06:44,580 --> 01:06:47,617
at any time in this case
until the case is concluded.
1535
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:50,920
Nobody got gagged,
except two people.
1536
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:52,622
Me and my partner.
1537
01:06:52,755 --> 01:06:55,391
And the defense loved it
when we got gagged
1538
01:06:55,391 --> 01:06:56,592
and they weren't.
1539
01:06:56,592 --> 01:06:57,994
[Rod] Looking at
this photograph here,
1540
01:06:58,127 --> 01:07:00,396
that bring back any memories.
1541
01:07:00,396 --> 01:07:04,300
[Allan] Yeah it does
and you know, not good ones.
1542
01:07:04,434 --> 01:07:07,236
{\an8}I'm Allan Park,
O.J. Simpson's limousine driver,
1543
01:07:07,236 --> 01:07:12,341
the unknown that became the
known more than I ever wanted.
1544
01:07:13,276 --> 01:07:14,777
The time I left?
11:15.
1545
01:07:14,777 --> 01:07:16,612
{\an8}You wouldn't lie to me when I
talk to you, would you?
1546
01:07:16,746 --> 01:07:17,780
No.
1547
01:07:17,780 --> 01:07:19,782
It was for a 10:45
pickup that night.
1548
01:07:19,916 --> 01:07:22,785
No activity in the house
or on the property or anything.
1549
01:07:22,785 --> 01:07:25,354
I sat there for a little bit,
smoked a cigarette.
1550
01:07:25,455 --> 01:07:27,857
I saw that there was a um,
an intercom system right there
1551
01:07:27,957 --> 01:07:30,159
with a telephone.
Rang, rang, rang, rang, rang.
1552
01:07:30,293 --> 01:07:31,360
No answer, no answer.
1553
01:07:31,461 --> 01:07:33,129
Started to ring
on the intercom again.
1554
01:07:33,262 --> 01:07:35,631
Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring.
No answer, no answer.
1555
01:07:35,631 --> 01:07:37,633
When I made the first call,
you know you're talking,
1556
01:07:37,767 --> 01:07:42,972
you know, 10:43 you know,
I made the second call 10:44.
1557
01:07:43,106 --> 01:07:44,340
Made the third call.
1558
01:07:44,474 --> 01:07:46,976
I think we're up to about 10:46
at about that time.
1559
01:07:47,110 --> 01:07:52,148
{\an8}That's when I see a dark figure
come across the driveway here
1560
01:07:52,281 --> 01:07:54,817
{\an8}and there you see the paw print,
just like we have
1561
01:07:54,951 --> 01:07:56,386
in the photograph that's here.
1562
01:07:56,486 --> 01:08:00,123
Same pattern was projected
onto her back.
1563
01:08:00,123 --> 01:08:01,524
- Yeah.
- In that photograph.
1564
01:08:01,657 --> 01:08:03,693
You just don't speculate and
throw ideas out there
1565
01:08:03,826 --> 01:08:04,961
to the jury and say,
because I said so.
1566
01:08:05,061 --> 01:08:06,162
That doesn't cut it.
1567
01:08:12,168 --> 01:08:14,937
{\an8}The one that is going to ensure
that she's going to die.
1568
01:08:15,071 --> 01:08:16,272
It's right here.
1569
01:08:16,272 --> 01:08:20,076
And numerous bruises, abrasions,
cuts, stab wounds.
1570
01:08:20,076 --> 01:08:22,812
I was ordered to send everything
to Judge Ito.
1571
01:08:22,812 --> 01:08:24,180
It's the strangest thing.
1572
01:08:24,313 --> 01:08:28,718
That's when I see dark figure
come across the driveway.
1573
01:08:29,519 --> 01:08:31,654
I'm here at the gate looking
straight in.
1574
01:08:31,788 --> 01:08:33,856
I could see him
from about this area here,
1575
01:08:33,990 --> 01:08:35,291
is when he comes into view.
1576
01:08:35,291 --> 01:08:36,826
{\an8}- It was a quick walk.
- Quick walk.
1577
01:08:36,959 --> 01:08:38,227
{\an8}It wasn't a run,
pick up the intercom again
1578
01:08:38,327 --> 01:08:40,096
and start to ring.
It rang a few times
1579
01:08:40,096 --> 01:08:42,198
before he finally picked up
and he said, you know,
1580
01:08:42,331 --> 01:08:43,699
Hey, hey, man, sorry
I overslept.
1581
01:08:43,833 --> 01:08:45,701
I just got outta the shower
and I'll be down in a minute.
1582
01:08:45,835 --> 01:08:47,003
I'm expecting him to
open up the gate.
1583
01:08:47,103 --> 01:08:48,371
He never buzzed me in,
the gate never opened.
1584
01:08:48,504 --> 01:08:50,406
{\an8}And Allan said that he
felt something strange.
1585
01:08:50,506 --> 01:08:52,742
{\an8}It didn't fit. You know, he's
here to pick someone up,
1586
01:08:52,842 --> 01:08:57,013
take 'em to the airport,
something he didn't understand.
1587
01:08:57,146 --> 01:08:59,582
And it's not too long
after I hang up the intercom,
1588
01:08:59,682 --> 01:09:02,885
I see another person come out
from this walkway out here
1589
01:09:03,052 --> 01:09:03,920
up to the driveway.
1590
01:09:04,053 --> 01:09:05,354
We all know now it was Kato.
1591
01:09:05,354 --> 01:09:06,689
Opens up the gate
and lets me in.
1592
01:09:06,823 --> 01:09:09,058
Kato's right up on me and he's
like, hey man, hey, hey,
1593
01:09:09,192 --> 01:09:10,359
did you feel an earthquake?
1594
01:09:12,061 --> 01:09:14,397
[Reporter] Kato had not seen
O.J. for more than an hour
1595
01:09:14,530 --> 01:09:17,333
since their return
from McDonald's at 9:35.
1596
01:09:17,333 --> 01:09:19,869
[Attorney] Did he seem real
excited to have you come?
1597
01:09:20,069 --> 01:09:21,204
[Judge] Sustained.
1598
01:09:21,337 --> 01:09:22,705
Wouldn't you?
1599
01:09:22,839 --> 01:09:24,273
[Allan] Meanwhile OJ still
hasn't come out of the house.
1600
01:09:24,373 --> 01:09:26,509
At one point Kato tells me that,
he goes, well, I was talking
1601
01:09:26,509 --> 01:09:28,444
to a girlfriend of mine
on the phone.
1602
01:09:28,544 --> 01:09:30,680
I heard some thumps on the wall
and the picture moved.
1603
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,182
And that's about when OJ
came out of the house.
1604
01:09:33,182 --> 01:09:35,785
[Tom] The word is it occurred
about 10:35 give or take.
1605
01:09:35,885 --> 01:09:39,222
We had this witness
hearing this commotion.
1606
01:09:39,222 --> 01:09:42,759
[Allan] When OJ came over to the
car, he was uh, I don't know.
1607
01:09:42,892 --> 01:09:45,094
A little bit aggitated.
He seemed to be sweating.
1608
01:09:45,094 --> 01:09:47,230
[Tom] It was warm that night
then, you're saying?
1609
01:09:47,363 --> 01:09:49,699
[Allan] It was June 12,
11:00 at night.
1610
01:09:49,699 --> 01:09:51,734
I was wearing a suit
and I wasn't hot.
1611
01:09:51,868 --> 01:09:53,569
[Tom] Was he actually sweating?
1612
01:09:53,703 --> 01:09:56,105
I'm not the sweat expert.
1613
01:09:56,239 --> 01:10:00,376
It's almost laughable.
The defense had to do something.
1614
01:10:00,376 --> 01:10:02,311
They had their
reputations on the line.
1615
01:10:02,412 --> 01:10:05,148
The world is watching them, too.
What are they gonna do?
1616
01:10:05,248 --> 01:10:07,316
Are they gonna roll over
and say, yeah, he did it.
1617
01:10:07,417 --> 01:10:08,785
That he didn't mean to?
1618
01:10:08,918 --> 01:10:11,054
No, they're gonna
attack everything.
1619
01:10:11,054 --> 01:10:13,423
[Allan] As we're standing there,
he overhears Kato asking about
1620
01:10:13,423 --> 01:10:15,558
an earthquake again.
And that's when O.J. asked.
1621
01:10:15,558 --> 01:10:17,126
He goes, oh,
we had an earthquake?
1622
01:10:17,260 --> 01:10:18,795
It's like, no man,
we didn't have an earthquake.
1623
01:10:18,928 --> 01:10:20,329
Dude, come on.
1624
01:10:20,430 --> 01:10:23,499
Kato is generally, he's scared
about something back there.
1625
01:10:23,599 --> 01:10:25,001
I can tell.
He's really aggitated.
1626
01:10:25,101 --> 01:10:26,903
And he really wants to go
back there and check it out.
1627
01:10:26,903 --> 01:10:28,404
[Tom] Back where?
1628
01:10:28,404 --> 01:10:30,573
[Allan] To go see where these,
the sounds were on his wall.
1629
01:10:30,573 --> 01:10:32,341
O.J. asked him about, you know,
we had an earthquake.
1630
01:10:32,442 --> 01:10:34,077
I said, no,
we didn't have any earthquake.
1631
01:10:34,077 --> 01:10:37,814
I hear O.J. clearly say, all
right, we'll go check it out.
1632
01:10:37,947 --> 01:10:39,682
And he points to Kato
to go around here.
1633
01:10:39,782 --> 01:10:43,920
He says he's gonna go that way.
O.J. follows right behind him.
1634
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:45,288
And I'm like,
that's kind of weird.
1635
01:10:45,421 --> 01:10:46,856
He just said he was gonna
go the other way.
1636
01:10:46,956 --> 01:10:49,158
O.J. turns around and as he sees
that I'm following him,
1637
01:10:49,292 --> 01:10:51,761
he's all, we gotta go.
We gotta get out of here.
1638
01:10:51,761 --> 01:10:53,196
You know, we're runnin' late.
1639
01:10:53,296 --> 01:10:55,031
Kato offered to go get this
little, black bag that was
1640
01:10:55,131 --> 01:10:57,300
behind the uh, the black car
that, that was there,
1641
01:10:57,433 --> 01:10:58,868
with the trunk opened.
1642
01:10:58,968 --> 01:11:01,838
Simpson abruptly stopped him.
Said, no, no. I'll get that bag.
1643
01:11:01,971 --> 01:11:04,941
Went himself and grabbed this
half-bone shaped travel bag.
1644
01:11:04,941 --> 01:11:07,310
We've never seen that bag,
what was in it.
1645
01:11:07,310 --> 01:11:08,811
No, I thought it was
a little bit strange.
1646
01:11:08,811 --> 01:11:12,448
When he left American Airlines,
the last thing he remembers
1647
01:11:12,448 --> 01:11:17,987
seeing is O.J. standing right
next to the trash container
1648
01:11:18,121 --> 01:11:19,856
at the left of the entrance.
1649
01:11:19,989 --> 01:11:22,625
And on top of that trash
container is that half
1650
01:11:22,625 --> 01:11:25,228
bone-shaped travel bag
that the other witness
1651
01:11:25,328 --> 01:11:27,697
identifies as being on
top of the container.
1652
01:11:27,830 --> 01:11:29,866
Says, yeah, I also saw
him shove something down
1653
01:11:29,999 --> 01:11:31,334
in the trash container.
1654
01:11:31,467 --> 01:11:32,902
Prior to the
preliminary hearing,
1655
01:11:33,002 --> 01:11:36,139
he's interviewed by Marcia,
the prosecutor.
1656
01:11:36,139 --> 01:11:38,574
And he tells her this.
This is the last thing I saw.
1657
01:11:38,674 --> 01:11:40,843
That should have been used.
Again, to this day,
1658
01:11:40,977 --> 01:11:42,345
people say,
where is the knife?
1659
01:11:42,345 --> 01:11:44,380
Where is the shoes?
Where is the clothing?
1660
01:11:44,514 --> 01:11:46,516
Well, what did he stick
in that trash container?
1661
01:11:46,516 --> 01:11:49,018
Tell me in your own words what
you think of this whole mess.
1662
01:11:49,152 --> 01:11:50,520
I'm nervous.
1663
01:11:50,653 --> 01:11:52,688
I know that I'm going on TV
in front of the world, you know,
1664
01:11:52,822 --> 01:11:54,891
and here my attorney mom is
like, oh, isn't this exciting,
1665
01:11:55,024 --> 01:11:56,492
you know?
1666
01:11:56,492 --> 01:11:58,861
I'm like, no, mom.
I'm gonna freakin' puke here.
1667
01:11:58,995 --> 01:12:00,763
[Tom] Like two days
after this occurs,
1668
01:12:00,863 --> 01:12:02,832
you get a phone call
from a couple of guys
1669
01:12:02,832 --> 01:12:04,867
who say they're lawyers,
Bob and Skip.
1670
01:12:05,001 --> 01:12:06,169
[Allan] The defense.
They were the first ones
1671
01:12:06,169 --> 01:12:08,738
- to get ahold of me, yes.
- [Tom] Anybody? Simpson?
1672
01:12:08,871 --> 01:12:10,006
They said that
they were attorneys
1673
01:12:10,106 --> 01:12:11,541
and that they were
representing Mr. Simpson.
1674
01:12:11,674 --> 01:12:13,710
[Tom] Well, when they interview
you, nobody ever advised you
1675
01:12:13,710 --> 01:12:15,111
that it was being tape recorded.
1676
01:12:15,111 --> 01:12:16,946
It was illegal,
but they continued on.
1677
01:12:17,113 --> 01:12:21,451
This is what you call
a fishing expedition.
1678
01:12:21,551 --> 01:12:23,753
[Allan] It was like Patty Jo
or something that's in charge
1679
01:12:23,886 --> 01:12:25,121
of the witnesses.
1680
01:12:25,221 --> 01:12:26,889
And she says, well,
Marcia's coming back up here.
1681
01:12:27,023 --> 01:12:28,257
She wants to talk to you.
1682
01:12:28,391 --> 01:12:30,593
Brought a tape recording
that the defense did with me.
1683
01:12:30,727 --> 01:12:32,528
We listened to the tape all
the way through and then you
1684
01:12:32,528 --> 01:12:35,298
can hear me hang-up
and the tape's still rolling.
1685
01:12:35,398 --> 01:12:38,735
And the first thing we hear them
say is, well, that's funny.
1686
01:12:38,735 --> 01:12:40,236
That's not what
O.J.'s telling us.
1687
01:12:40,369 --> 01:12:42,038
I mean, we looked
at all each other,
1688
01:12:42,138 --> 01:12:44,373
Marcia, I and our
jaws just dropped.
1689
01:12:44,373 --> 01:12:45,808
And the next thing he says,
1690
01:12:45,908 --> 01:12:47,543
are you usually sweaty when
you get out of the shower?
1691
01:12:47,543 --> 01:12:49,712
Bob Shapiro, the defense
attorney was involved.
1692
01:12:49,712 --> 01:12:52,782
He was called by his nickname
was BS, Bob Shapiro.
1693
01:12:52,915 --> 01:12:55,151
Why don't we jump to the trial?
1694
01:12:55,151 --> 01:12:56,919
Johnny Cochran has you on cross.
1695
01:12:56,919 --> 01:12:59,155
They really hammered me
on the bags.
1696
01:12:59,255 --> 01:13:02,325
You know, they brought in the
Louis Vuitton garment bag.
1697
01:13:02,425 --> 01:13:03,993
They seemed to have those bags.
1698
01:13:04,093 --> 01:13:06,095
[Reporter] O.J.'s lawyers tried
to claim the vanished valise
1699
01:13:06,229 --> 01:13:07,563
was really this one.
1700
01:13:07,563 --> 01:13:10,266
They started asking me firstly
is that, is this the bag?
1701
01:13:10,266 --> 01:13:11,634
I said, no, that's not the bag.
1702
01:13:11,768 --> 01:13:13,936
When they said, the bag,
what the bag is he talking to?
1703
01:13:14,103 --> 01:13:16,105
The bag that was on the trash
can, trying to tell me that,
1704
01:13:16,105 --> 01:13:17,740
that's it and they said,
and I even told them.
1705
01:13:17,740 --> 01:13:20,109
I said, look and that bag's
never been used.
1706
01:13:20,243 --> 01:13:22,111
It's brand new,
still folded and crushed.
1707
01:13:22,111 --> 01:13:23,913
It looks like it just
came out of a package.
1708
01:13:23,913 --> 01:13:26,349
I mean, I can't believe I didn't
even see a price tag on it.
1709
01:13:26,449 --> 01:13:29,485
Judge Ito is listening to this,
but he's doing something.
1710
01:13:29,619 --> 01:13:31,621
He's not really
paying attention.
1711
01:13:31,754 --> 01:13:35,124
I don't know what they were
trying to do with the bag thing.
1712
01:13:35,124 --> 01:13:37,126
Get you to roll over on it
and say, yeah, that was it.
1713
01:13:37,126 --> 01:13:38,461
- I never did.
- Case closed.
1714
01:13:38,461 --> 01:13:40,963
Yeah, never did.
1715
01:13:43,933 --> 01:13:46,469
[Tom] I got this shot from
Bundy looking westwards,
1716
01:13:46,602 --> 01:13:48,971
towards Nicole.
We look at this.
1717
01:13:48,971 --> 01:13:49,138
There she also bought some
Bruno Maglis for herself.
1718
01:13:50,139 --> 01:13:52,508
We see all this blood flowing
down towards the street.
1719
01:13:52,642 --> 01:13:57,380
But in the middle here,
there's a lot of prints, okay?
1720
01:13:57,480 --> 01:14:01,551
The defense, one of the defense
experts came out and said
1721
01:14:01,551 --> 01:14:01,651
She takes off for Bruno Maglis
and puts them on the table.
1722
01:14:02,719 --> 01:14:03,786
{\an8}when talking about the crime
scene, one of the problems
1723
01:14:03,786 --> 01:14:06,089
{\an8}to the LAPD cops who were
at the crime scene,
1724
01:14:06,089 --> 01:14:07,457
they walked through
a lot of blood,
1725
01:14:07,457 --> 01:14:09,992
left their footwear impressions
all over the place.
1726
01:14:10,093 --> 01:14:11,828
[Rod] Nicole's dog got out
1727
01:14:11,828 --> 01:14:14,530
and that was the
Akita dog named Kato.
1728
01:14:14,664 --> 01:14:17,233
All this is he's running up
and down in the blood
1729
01:14:17,333 --> 01:14:19,502
creating transfers
from paw prints.
1730
01:14:19,635 --> 01:14:20,837
The dog is frantic.
1731
01:14:20,970 --> 01:14:22,672
But there's dozens of them.
They're all over.
1732
01:14:22,672 --> 01:14:25,975
{\an8}Yeah, the dog even goes
and puts his paws up above her,
1733
01:14:26,109 --> 01:14:30,146
{\an8}the step, bloody paw prints
and doesn't go any further,
1734
01:14:30,146 --> 01:14:32,215
and drew the feet back.
1735
01:14:32,348 --> 01:14:33,516
There you can see
the paw prints.
1736
01:14:33,516 --> 01:14:35,151
He drew it back.
And it's spattered blood.
1737
01:14:35,151 --> 01:14:38,121
And then leaves,
goes up and down the sidewalk.
1738
01:14:38,121 --> 01:14:41,257
There is so much evidence
in this case.
1739
01:14:41,357 --> 01:14:46,362
Multiple paw prints,
bloody paw prints of the dog,
1740
01:14:46,496 --> 01:14:49,532
Nicole's dog running up
and down traumatized
1741
01:14:49,532 --> 01:14:50,767
as to what's going on.
1742
01:14:50,867 --> 01:14:53,035
Those are not footprints
from a human being.
1743
01:14:53,169 --> 01:14:55,338
[Tom] If I was just
looking at it objectively,
1744
01:14:55,338 --> 01:14:57,006
this needs an explanation.
1745
01:14:57,140 --> 01:14:59,709
That's a dog paw
going across here.
1746
01:14:59,709 --> 01:15:01,377
If I'm gonna look at this crime
scene and see anything,
1747
01:15:01,511 --> 01:15:02,712
and I'm of the jury
or anyone else,
1748
01:15:02,712 --> 01:15:03,913
I want to find out
what happened.
1749
01:15:04,981 --> 01:15:06,249
[Rod] So you experiment.
And I made a video.
1750
01:15:06,382 --> 01:15:08,918
And we're doing this last
experiment on concrete
1751
01:15:09,085 --> 01:15:12,555
to simulate the conditions of
concrete with the state
1752
01:15:12,555 --> 01:15:16,125
of the home with a
simulated body in the scene.
1753
01:15:16,225 --> 01:15:19,095
And we're gonna have the dog run
up close to create patterns
1754
01:15:19,228 --> 01:15:22,098
on the back of the subject to
see if those patterns match
1755
01:15:22,098 --> 01:15:24,233
the one in the scene, if
they're from a different source
1756
01:15:24,233 --> 01:15:28,805
or if they could be from the
source we're gonna create here.
1757
01:15:28,805 --> 01:15:28,905
[Rod] Look at the blood that's
on the small tree transfer.
1758
01:15:29,505 --> 01:15:30,273
So we'll pour the stage blood.
1759
01:15:30,406 --> 01:15:31,808
[Rod] And this is
a canine deputy.
1760
01:15:33,743 --> 01:15:35,111
There you go.
1761
01:15:35,111 --> 01:15:38,715
It's animal blood.
Gets the dog excited.
1762
01:15:38,715 --> 01:15:41,384
And the dog will run around
leaving paw prints.
1763
01:15:41,384 --> 01:15:43,619
And I pour some more blood there
1764
01:15:43,753 --> 01:15:46,589
to see if we can replicate.
1765
01:15:46,723 --> 01:15:49,125
And the dog, there you see
the paw prints just like
1766
01:15:49,125 --> 01:15:52,128
that we have in the
photograph that's here.
1767
01:15:52,228 --> 01:15:53,930
- Yeah.
- And...
1768
01:15:54,130 --> 01:15:58,468
And then the same pattern was
projected onto her back
1769
01:15:58,601 --> 01:16:03,072
as we have here
in that photograph.
1770
01:16:03,072 --> 01:16:05,241
You just don't speculate
and throw ideas out there
1771
01:16:05,241 --> 01:16:07,577
to the jury and say
because I said so.
1772
01:16:07,577 --> 01:16:08,945
That doesn't cut it.
1773
01:16:09,078 --> 01:16:10,780
They had a bunch of kids out
front during the trial
1774
01:16:10,913 --> 01:16:13,583
selling t-shirts, free O.J...
1775
01:16:13,583 --> 01:16:16,252
I asked this one kid.
Nice kids, actually.
1776
01:16:16,252 --> 01:16:17,520
We talked to them a little bit.
1777
01:16:17,620 --> 01:16:20,123
We had kind of a back and forth
with these kids.
1778
01:16:20,123 --> 01:16:21,791
Because they did
have a sense of humor.
1779
01:16:21,791 --> 01:16:23,092
I'd asked them, you know,
1780
01:16:23,092 --> 01:16:24,761
how do sales go
in something like this?
1781
01:16:24,761 --> 01:16:26,763
And this kid looked me right
in the eye and he said,
1782
01:16:26,763 --> 01:16:28,464
the longer you have
him in there,
1783
01:16:28,464 --> 01:16:30,466
the more money I make out here.
1784
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:32,101
So keep going type of thing.
1785
01:16:32,101 --> 01:16:34,170
So we went inside.
We got stopped halfway in there.
1786
01:16:34,303 --> 01:16:36,973
I think it was CNN,
a young reporter, a young woman.
1787
01:16:37,106 --> 01:16:41,310
And she asked, who are those
fellas you were talking to?
1788
01:16:41,444 --> 01:16:44,447
I said, well, I'm not supposed
to tell anybody,
1789
01:16:44,447 --> 01:16:46,883
but these are these four kids.
They're witnesses.
1790
01:16:46,983 --> 01:16:49,285
And we're trying to get into
court, so nobody sees them.
1791
01:16:49,285 --> 01:16:50,820
Just screwing with them.
1792
01:16:50,953 --> 01:16:53,990
And they come on and they report
these four mysterious witnesses
1793
01:16:54,123 --> 01:16:57,627
that the prosecutors are trying
to sneak into the court.
1794
01:16:57,627 --> 01:17:00,696
Now it's the big
story of the morning.
1795
01:17:04,300 --> 01:17:05,868
[Tom] I'm gonna say
that the major controversy
1796
01:17:06,069 --> 01:17:08,504
in this whole case was
blood on the rear gate.
1797
01:17:08,638 --> 01:17:09,539
Do you remember
hearing that phrase?
1798
01:17:09,672 --> 01:17:11,140
[Rod] Yeah.
1799
01:17:11,140 --> 01:17:13,976
I didn't get involved in that
issue, but I do know about it.
1800
01:17:14,077 --> 01:17:16,646
That's why it's good to have
an objective opinion now
1801
01:17:16,646 --> 01:17:18,748
on something that I'm
about to show you here.
1802
01:17:18,848 --> 01:17:21,150
[Reporter] Defense attorney,
Barry Sheck illicits testimony
1803
01:17:21,150 --> 01:17:24,320
to support his theory
that O.J. Simpson was framed.
1804
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:25,822
We had criminalists
at the scene,
1805
01:17:25,822 --> 01:17:27,423
you had blood everywhere.
1806
01:17:27,523 --> 01:17:29,692
Three weeks later,
we go on a walk through
1807
01:17:29,692 --> 01:17:32,862
and we come to the rear gate,
the infamous rear gate.
1808
01:17:32,995 --> 01:17:36,099
One of the district attorneys
looks down at the lower rung.
1809
01:17:36,099 --> 01:17:37,767
And he sees what
appears to be blood.
1810
01:17:37,867 --> 01:17:40,169
This is three weeks later.
And he looks at it.
1811
01:17:40,169 --> 01:17:42,105
And he says, well,
we better take that.
1812
01:17:42,205 --> 01:17:44,841
They collect the sample.
It's O.J. Simpson's blood.
1813
01:17:44,841 --> 01:17:46,909
So the big question
from the defense,
1814
01:17:47,110 --> 01:17:48,611
well, why didn't you get
this the first time?
1815
01:17:48,711 --> 01:17:50,713
It must've been planted,
so of course the media runs
1816
01:17:50,847 --> 01:17:52,782
with that and everybody
else runs with it.
1817
01:17:52,882 --> 01:17:54,717
{\an8}Blood on the rear gate.
1818
01:17:54,717 --> 01:17:57,120
{\an8}The Simpson jury never got
an explanation for anything.
1819
01:17:57,220 --> 01:17:59,122
This is in seconds,
in 12 seconds
1820
01:17:59,122 --> 01:18:00,790
is an explanation that
1821
01:18:00,890 --> 01:18:04,427
could take some people a month.
And you did it in 12 seconds.
1822
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:06,262
Why in the hell
they never saw this.
1823
01:18:06,396 --> 01:18:07,530
I don't know the answer to that.
1824
01:18:13,069 --> 01:18:15,071
{\an8}[Rod] The door rings or
something and she goes out.
1825
01:18:15,171 --> 01:18:17,340
{\an8}Life is over in seconds.
1826
01:18:17,473 --> 01:18:18,808
You know you're gonna die.
1827
01:18:18,808 --> 01:18:21,377
We hear them say, that's not
what O.J.'s telling us.
1828
01:18:21,511 --> 01:18:25,481
[Tom] The infamous rear gate.
It's O.J. Simpson's blood.
1829
01:18:25,481 --> 01:18:27,083
Well, why didn't you get this
the first time?
1830
01:18:27,183 --> 01:18:29,185
{\an8}It must've been planted,
so of course the media runs
1831
01:18:29,318 --> 01:18:31,354
{\an8}with that and everybody
else runs with it.
1832
01:18:31,354 --> 01:18:33,923
Blood on the rear gate.
1833
01:18:34,090 --> 01:18:37,160
Well, in this one here, I call
my bible, my Simpson bible.
1834
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:40,730
It's about details
with all of the nonsense
1835
01:18:40,863 --> 01:18:42,331
and all of the bureaucracy.
1836
01:18:42,331 --> 01:18:44,700
So I put the realities
in there with perceptions.
1837
01:18:44,700 --> 01:18:46,102
Neglected evidence.
1838
01:18:46,202 --> 01:18:49,939
There were 512 additional
so-called clues.
1839
01:18:50,106 --> 01:18:52,508
So I've got a couple of photos
taken on the day of the
1840
01:18:52,508 --> 01:18:54,777
crime scene investigation.
This is the rear gate.
1841
01:18:54,877 --> 01:18:56,112
I don't know how
good your sight is,
1842
01:18:56,212 --> 01:18:58,748
but if you want to
get a magnifying glass.
1843
01:18:58,881 --> 01:19:00,249
Oh, I can see what
you're talking about.
1844
01:19:00,383 --> 01:19:03,953
Can you see something down here?
1845
01:19:04,921 --> 01:19:07,857
See a little blood drop?
1846
01:19:11,894 --> 01:19:14,230
Three weeks later we had
this photograph here.
1847
01:19:14,230 --> 01:19:18,234
Same location, same
configuration, same blood.
1848
01:19:18,234 --> 01:19:20,603
I'm 100% that's the blood drop.
1849
01:19:20,737 --> 01:19:24,607
{\an8}Drops of blood that are
a certain distance apart.
1850
01:19:24,741 --> 01:19:26,642
You can see the
measurement here.
1851
01:19:26,743 --> 01:19:29,579
And that still exists
in this photograph.
1852
01:19:29,712 --> 01:19:33,449
So I wanted them to rebut the
planted blood on the rear gate.
1853
01:19:33,583 --> 01:19:34,884
They wouldn't do it.
1854
01:19:34,884 --> 01:19:37,620
The bottom line is the
prosecution did not put this on.
1855
01:19:37,754 --> 01:19:41,124
It's very strong when you get
accused of planting blood
1856
01:19:41,257 --> 01:19:44,260
and you're the investigating
officer in a double murder case.
1857
01:19:44,260 --> 01:19:47,296
Someone's gotta say something.
Someone's gotta get pissed off.
1858
01:19:47,430 --> 01:19:48,598
It's as simple as that.
1859
01:19:48,731 --> 01:19:49,999
[Rod] It's a pattern.
1860
01:19:50,099 --> 01:19:51,901
In other words you have
two drops that are distant,
1861
01:19:51,901 --> 01:19:55,671
the same measurement apart.
Somebody dropped the ball.
1862
01:19:55,772 --> 01:19:57,640
Why wasn't this found
originally?
1863
01:19:57,774 --> 01:20:00,343
They did have the criminalist
testify. That's why he was--
1864
01:20:00,443 --> 01:20:01,611
Attention was diverted.
1865
01:20:01,744 --> 01:20:03,146
It was a mistake
that he didn't collect it.
1866
01:20:03,279 --> 01:20:06,516
That's too bad, but if somebody
turned this around
1867
01:20:06,616 --> 01:20:09,185
and made it sound like cops
planted this evidence.
1868
01:20:09,285 --> 01:20:10,787
We just proved that they didn't.
1869
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,189
Why wouldn't they want a
jury to look at these two?
1870
01:20:13,289 --> 01:20:14,624
The defense has a motion.
1871
01:20:14,624 --> 01:20:15,992
Have you ever heard
the term, coverup?
1872
01:20:16,125 --> 01:20:18,628
[Tom] To get hair
samples from myself.
1873
01:20:18,761 --> 01:20:19,762
The coverup continues.
1874
01:20:19,762 --> 01:20:20,930
[Tom] I don't have
all that much.
1875
01:20:20,930 --> 01:20:23,366
I think the standard
was 40 follicles.
1876
01:20:23,466 --> 01:20:25,301
Maybe they'll find me
in contempt or something.
1877
01:20:25,301 --> 01:20:28,271
Cause I don't even
have that many.
1878
01:20:29,705 --> 01:20:31,974
He wants some hair samples
from us because if hair becomes
1879
01:20:31,974 --> 01:20:35,845
an issue in the case, it could
be that cops had left it there.
1880
01:20:35,978 --> 01:20:37,947
For what? I don't know.
Just a dirty cop.
1881
01:20:37,947 --> 01:20:39,482
They actually pushed it.
1882
01:20:39,482 --> 01:20:41,784
They said we would like blood
samples from these cops.
1883
01:20:41,784 --> 01:20:44,153
Well, there's only three bloods
here of any interest.
1884
01:20:44,287 --> 01:20:46,355
The two victims
and the suspect, Simpson.
1885
01:20:46,489 --> 01:20:48,357
And that's the defense.
1886
01:20:48,491 --> 01:20:49,959
And they get away
with this crap.
1887
01:20:49,959 --> 01:20:53,996
If you gag everybody involved,
prevent them from going to the
1888
01:20:53,996 --> 01:20:55,998
media three to four times a day,
1889
01:20:56,132 --> 01:20:59,001
and putting their own spin on
evidence and cops are dirty.
1890
01:20:59,135 --> 01:21:01,871
Cops are lying.
Cops are planting evidence.
1891
01:21:02,004 --> 01:21:03,973
We can't respond to that.
We're gagged.
1892
01:21:04,107 --> 01:21:05,241
We're investigating this.
1893
01:21:05,341 --> 01:21:07,577
If we're dirty,
the case against him is lost.
1894
01:21:07,677 --> 01:21:10,413
{\an8}[Nicole] He drove up again.
Can you send somebody over?
1895
01:21:10,513 --> 01:21:12,148
{\an8}[Operator] Wait a minute.
What kind of car is he in?
1896
01:21:12,148 --> 01:21:13,516
[Nicole] He's in a white Bronco.
1897
01:21:13,649 --> 01:21:16,018
First of all,
he broke the back door down.
1898
01:21:16,352 --> 01:21:18,321
but they can't show us
any evidence of that.
1899
01:21:18,488 --> 01:21:20,390
[Rod] Before the speculation
that occurred out there
1900
01:21:20,523 --> 01:21:23,659
among the public and experts
that one of them said
1901
01:21:23,659 --> 01:21:26,929
that this fight between
whoever the attacker was
1902
01:21:27,029 --> 01:21:30,867
and Nicole Brown Simpson
lasted at least 15 minutes.
1903
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:32,535
- 15 minutes is a long time.
- Oh, yeah.
1904
01:21:32,535 --> 01:21:34,904
When the public
was thrown astray,
1905
01:21:35,037 --> 01:21:39,008
it messed up the timeline
because O.J. Simpson, a suspect
1906
01:21:39,142 --> 01:21:41,878
was already at the airport when
this fight is still going on,
1907
01:21:42,011 --> 01:21:43,746
alledgely type thing.
Well, let me show you something.
1908
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,682
Took two homicide detectives,
put them in white,
1909
01:21:46,682 --> 01:21:48,684
used a retracted-bladed knife.
1910
01:21:48,684 --> 01:21:51,220
And the instructions were,
we want you two to fight.
1911
01:21:51,354 --> 01:21:53,523
And we want you to fight
as long as you can fight.
1912
01:21:53,523 --> 01:21:57,860
So I want to show you something
as to how long it takes
1913
01:21:57,860 --> 01:22:02,899
for this fight to occur
simulating the attack
1914
01:22:02,899 --> 01:22:04,467
and the information,
the evidence that we had
1915
01:22:04,567 --> 01:22:07,804
from the Simpson crime scene.
1916
01:22:07,904 --> 01:22:10,907
{\an8}When that video starts running,
we'll say go.
1917
01:22:10,907 --> 01:22:14,243
{\an8}We'll put, put it on this.
It'll all be videoed.
1918
01:22:14,377 --> 01:22:17,146
And here's your knife.
1919
01:22:17,246 --> 01:22:18,448
So watch this.
1920
01:22:18,581 --> 01:22:20,717
The cameras are going.
1921
01:22:20,717 --> 01:22:22,385
Okay, Ron Goldman walks in.
1922
01:22:22,385 --> 01:22:25,955
Here he comes.
Hey, hey, hey, hey.
1923
01:22:34,297 --> 01:22:35,498
He's stepping in the blood.
1924
01:22:35,598 --> 01:22:37,967
There you see
the projected stains.
1925
01:22:38,134 --> 01:22:39,435
Okay. How long did that take?
1926
01:22:39,569 --> 01:22:40,970
Stop time.
1927
01:22:41,137 --> 01:22:44,407
Okay, don't step in anything.
Just stay there right now.
1928
01:22:44,407 --> 01:22:46,309
Now you know how
much time that was?
1929
01:22:46,442 --> 01:22:48,444
12 seconds.
1930
01:22:48,578 --> 01:22:52,014
- How many times is he stabbed?
- 30 times.
1931
01:22:52,148 --> 01:22:53,449
How long did that take?
1932
01:22:53,583 --> 01:22:55,184
- 12 seconds.
- 12 seconds.
1933
01:22:55,284 --> 01:22:56,686
That's a long time.
1934
01:22:56,786 --> 01:22:58,921
Look how much blood is on the
person that gets attacked.
1935
01:22:58,921 --> 01:23:00,456
And this would be Ron Goldman.
1936
01:23:00,590 --> 01:23:03,626
Look how little gets on
to this person and where it was,
1937
01:23:03,626 --> 01:23:05,328
was around the socks
and the shoes.
1938
01:23:05,461 --> 01:23:06,963
I still have that clothing.
1939
01:23:07,096 --> 01:23:10,633
Took it as evidence to present
in the trial to show how little
1940
01:23:10,633 --> 01:23:13,336
blood gets on the attacker
because it forces away from
1941
01:23:13,469 --> 01:23:16,806
and here you have all the blood
that's down here.
1942
01:23:16,806 --> 01:23:19,609
This is not something
where we're just gonna
1943
01:23:19,609 --> 01:23:21,844
play around here.
No, they fought.
1944
01:23:21,978 --> 01:23:25,615
It was almost identical
to what my findings were.
1945
01:23:25,615 --> 01:23:27,116
Goldman went down.
1946
01:23:27,116 --> 01:23:29,452
The person playing Goldman
went down by the force from
1947
01:23:29,452 --> 01:23:31,721
the person that's stabbing him.
1948
01:23:31,821 --> 01:23:34,657
And his feet go up.
And he goes down.
1949
01:23:34,657 --> 01:23:36,826
And they're moving
around in the blood.
1950
01:23:36,826 --> 01:23:39,796
Smearing the blood exactly
like it was at the scene
1951
01:23:39,796 --> 01:23:44,834
for 30 stab wounds,
incised wounds in this fight.
1952
01:23:44,967 --> 01:23:48,838
There's another transfer pattern
here on the north wall,
1953
01:23:48,838 --> 01:23:51,474
which at its highest point is
1954
01:23:51,474 --> 01:23:51,541
We were very happy that
we found this amount of blood
1955
01:23:52,575 --> 01:23:56,212
one foot, four and three
quarters of an inch high.
1956
01:23:59,882 --> 01:24:03,319
[Tom] That kind of takes me
back to 3:00 AM on June 12th.
1957
01:24:03,319 --> 01:24:04,921
All this blood
and everything else.
1958
01:24:05,088 --> 01:24:08,491
Someone who gets stabbed this
many times, this viciously--
1959
01:24:08,491 --> 01:24:09,859
[Rod] This is personal, hate.
1960
01:24:09,859 --> 01:24:11,194
[Tom] Because we're
assuming if it's hate,
1961
01:24:11,194 --> 01:24:12,562
the suspect has
to know the victim.
1962
01:24:12,695 --> 01:24:13,930
[Rod] You've done the deed.
1963
01:24:14,097 --> 01:24:15,531
You've killed the people
that you went there to kill.
1964
01:24:15,531 --> 01:24:17,767
And then somebody was wrong
place, wrong time.
1965
01:24:17,867 --> 01:24:18,901
As soon as they got there,
1966
01:24:19,102 --> 01:24:20,403
I felt that, that's what
happened here.
1967
01:24:20,536 --> 01:24:21,904
This wasn't sex.
1968
01:24:22,105 --> 01:24:26,109
This wasn't theft.
This was revenge, mad, hate.
1969
01:24:26,209 --> 01:24:30,713
Notice that these projected
stains, they go out to the side,
1970
01:24:30,847 --> 01:24:33,449
those that didn't hit the
pavement hit the socks.
1971
01:24:33,549 --> 01:24:35,118
[Tom] The average person
would think there should be
1972
01:24:35,118 --> 01:24:36,619
a whole lot of blood
on him and there's not.
1973
01:24:36,719 --> 01:24:38,388
[Rod] But the victims have
a lot of blood on them.
1974
01:24:38,388 --> 01:24:39,889
Ron Goldman's covered in blood.
1975
01:24:40,022 --> 01:24:41,891
Nicole Brown Simpson
is covered in blood.
1976
01:24:41,891 --> 01:24:44,260
But the person that you
suspected, O.J. Simpson,
1977
01:24:44,394 --> 01:24:45,795
where did it have his blood?
1978
01:24:45,895 --> 01:24:48,131
On the back of the legs,
around the feet,
1979
01:24:48,231 --> 01:24:49,399
on the socks.
1980
01:24:49,532 --> 01:24:51,267
[Tom] Sure. One or two
of the jurors alluded to,
1981
01:24:51,401 --> 01:24:54,137
they said that Simpson, if he
was the killer would've been
1982
01:24:54,237 --> 01:24:55,405
covered in blood.
1983
01:24:55,405 --> 01:24:57,140
If they were shown this video,
1984
01:24:57,140 --> 01:24:58,574
they might have a
different opinion.
1985
01:24:58,574 --> 01:25:00,543
How can you
question any of this?
1986
01:25:00,543 --> 01:25:02,612
And the blood would
be on the gloves.
1987
01:25:02,745 --> 01:25:04,580
There you go.
This doesn't lie.
1988
01:25:04,580 --> 01:25:06,249
And there were a lot of
people observing it.
1989
01:25:06,249 --> 01:25:07,750
This is the grab mark.
1990
01:25:07,750 --> 01:25:09,419
[Tom] Yeah. And the Simpson
jury never got an explanation
1991
01:25:09,552 --> 01:25:10,753
for anything.
1992
01:25:10,753 --> 01:25:11,921
You know? You're right.
1993
01:25:11,921 --> 01:25:13,923
This here, in seconds,
in 12 seconds,
1994
01:25:14,090 --> 01:25:17,493
is an explanation that could
take some people a month.
1995
01:25:17,593 --> 01:25:19,429
And you did it in 12 seconds.
1996
01:25:19,562 --> 01:25:21,097
Why in the hell
I never saw this?
1997
01:25:21,097 --> 01:25:22,632
I don't know the answer to that.
1998
01:25:22,765 --> 01:25:25,835
The answer's simple.
Put it in the damn evidence.
1999
01:25:25,935 --> 01:25:27,837
The first ballot
was 10 to 2, actually.
2000
01:25:27,937 --> 01:25:31,407
And there were two holdouts that
said, we think he was guilty.
2001
01:25:31,407 --> 01:25:34,277
{\an8}It didn't take but an hour and a
half for the rest of the jurors
2002
01:25:34,277 --> 01:25:36,446
{\an8}to talk these two
into rolling over.
2003
01:25:36,446 --> 01:25:39,115
Juror number six just flat out
came and said,
2004
01:25:39,115 --> 01:25:41,317
I don't believe any
of the police witnesses
2005
01:25:41,417 --> 01:25:41,451
other than her door? Was it to--
2006
01:25:42,118 --> 01:25:43,286
without any further explanation.
2007
01:25:43,286 --> 01:25:44,921
They need evidence to show,
so they're like,
2008
01:25:44,921 --> 01:25:47,323
the glove has his
print on it, whatever.
2009
01:25:47,457 --> 01:25:49,292
And see the grab mark?
Look at the grab mark.
2010
01:25:49,425 --> 01:25:50,660
That's a grab mark.
2011
01:25:50,793 --> 01:25:52,628
Two of those were on the back
of Goldman's shirt.
2012
01:25:52,628 --> 01:25:55,431
All they need is one person
in that jury box to roll over
2013
01:25:55,431 --> 01:25:57,300
and say, hey,
I don't think he did it.
2014
01:25:57,433 --> 01:26:00,603
There is so much
evidence in this case.
2015
01:26:00,603 --> 01:26:01,971
[Rod] This wasn't staged.
2016
01:26:02,071 --> 01:26:03,206
I mean,
we just told them to fight.
2017
01:26:03,306 --> 01:26:04,373
[Tom] It's rage.
2018
01:26:04,474 --> 01:26:08,144
[Rod] Rage, fear,
revenge, theft or sex.
2019
01:26:08,277 --> 01:26:12,148
It all fits.
It all fits.
2020
01:26:13,316 --> 01:26:16,986
Everybody says today, they say,
he'd have been covered in blood.
2021
01:26:17,086 --> 01:26:18,321
Yeah, look at
the projected stain.
2022
01:26:18,321 --> 01:26:19,822
Look at the projected stains.
2023
01:26:19,822 --> 01:26:21,357
[Tom] If I was in the jury
looking at this,
2024
01:26:21,491 --> 01:26:23,493
I can say, well, maybe he
wouldn't be covered in blood.
2025
01:26:23,493 --> 01:26:24,794
You know?
2026
01:26:24,794 --> 01:26:27,196
That would be my responsibility
to explain that.
2027
01:26:27,330 --> 01:26:30,099
Of course, we never saw it.
2028
01:26:30,099 --> 01:26:32,668
We never saw it.
2029
01:26:34,804 --> 01:26:37,340
Nine months of this
and you take four hours
2030
01:26:37,473 --> 01:26:40,343
to come to a decision,
two of those being lunch.
2031
01:26:40,343 --> 01:26:42,378
I don't care whether
he was guilty or not guilty,
2032
01:26:42,512 --> 01:26:43,980
that means you
didn't ask questions.
2033
01:26:44,113 --> 01:26:46,716
You didn't ask for inquiries
in this, that or the other.
2034
01:26:46,849 --> 01:26:48,384
Were they napping?
I don't know.
2035
01:26:48,518 --> 01:26:50,119
[Reporter] Juror number one
shocked the court
2036
01:26:50,119 --> 01:26:53,322
{\an8}by handing over the verdict.
2037
01:26:54,857 --> 01:26:56,192
{\an8}[Tom] Look at the evidence.
2038
01:26:56,192 --> 01:27:01,364
A supposition is not evidence.
Evidence is evidence.
2039
01:27:01,364 --> 01:27:04,333
Come back this soon,
they have found him guilty.
2040
01:27:04,333 --> 01:27:07,437
And no one can tell me
they looked at this evidence
2041
01:27:07,537 --> 01:27:10,373
with any amount
of curiosity, period.
2042
01:27:10,506 --> 01:27:14,077
Some fancy lawyer throws a bunch
of nine dollar words at you.
2043
01:27:14,177 --> 01:27:16,279
And you're like, boy,
he sounds really good.
2044
01:27:16,379 --> 01:27:18,614
He can't be lying
or whatever else. He's lying.
2045
01:27:18,715 --> 01:27:21,084
How could anyone say
that he didn't do it?
2046
01:27:21,084 --> 01:27:24,620
There's absolutely no doubt
in my mind that O.J. Simpson
2047
01:27:24,721 --> 01:27:27,890
killed Nicole and Ron.
There's no doubt.
2048
01:27:28,091 --> 01:27:29,859
[Woman] Not guilty
of the crime of murder.
2049
01:27:29,859 --> 01:27:31,728
[cheering]
2050
01:27:31,861 --> 01:27:33,129
[Woman] It made me very sad.
2051
01:27:33,229 --> 01:27:35,398
I felt very sad for the families
watching their reactions.
2052
01:27:35,531 --> 01:27:37,900
If we go back
in history 100 years,
2053
01:27:38,101 --> 01:27:41,738
I've never seen
anything like this.
2054
01:27:57,887 --> 01:27:59,789
I don't care what people think.
2055
01:27:59,922 --> 01:28:02,658
But if you really care and you
wanna know what happened,
2056
01:28:02,759 --> 01:28:06,095
dig a little deeper
and see what happened.
2057
01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:08,498
Do your own edition.
2058
01:28:08,765 --> 01:28:10,099
[Mark] I would like you
to listen carefully.
2059
01:28:10,099 --> 01:28:13,069
If you don't understand
anything, tell me, okay?
2060
01:28:13,069 --> 01:28:15,571
Mr. Simpson, you have the
right to remain silent.
2061
01:28:15,571 --> 01:28:17,173
If you give up the right
to remain silent,
2062
01:28:17,273 --> 01:28:18,975
anything you say can and will
be used against you
2063
01:28:19,108 --> 01:28:20,777
in a court of law.