1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:03,870 --> 00:00:06,139 [music] 3 00:00:06,206 --> 00:00:08,208 [Operator] We're sorry, you have reached the number 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 5 00:00:08,341 --> 00:00:10,210 that has been disconnected or is no longer... 6 00:00:10,343 --> 00:00:12,912 [Tom] O.J., it's Tom again. Can you to hear me? 7 00:00:13,013 --> 00:00:15,348 Hey, hang on the line, I wanna talk to you. 8 00:00:15,482 --> 00:00:16,750 Okay. I'm still here. 9 00:00:16,850 --> 00:00:19,853 I'm just getting a little interference here. 10 00:00:19,919 --> 00:00:22,822 You're going to break our hearts, don't do this. 11 00:00:22,889 --> 00:00:24,257 That's okay. Listen, 12 00:00:24,357 --> 00:00:25,925 there's nothing to be sorry about. 13 00:00:26,026 --> 00:00:28,695 My name is Tom Lang. 14 00:00:28,762 --> 00:00:32,198 I am a former LAPD homicide detective of 29 years. 15 00:00:32,332 --> 00:00:35,402 [line trilling] Hello, O.J.? You still there? 16 00:00:35,535 --> 00:00:37,871 He's thinking. 17 00:00:38,371 --> 00:00:41,541 I've been involved in 250 different homicides. 18 00:00:41,608 --> 00:00:44,344 One murder investigation still bothers me. 19 00:00:44,411 --> 00:00:45,779 [Operator] 911 emergency. 20 00:00:45,879 --> 00:00:47,947 [Nicole] Yeah. Can you send someone to my house? 21 00:00:48,048 --> 00:00:50,884 [Operator] Oh, okay. Is he the sportscaster or whatever? 22 00:00:50,950 --> 00:00:52,052 [Nicole] Yeah. 23 00:00:52,118 --> 00:00:53,229 [Operator] Is he threatening you? 24 00:00:53,253 --> 00:00:54,888 [Nicole] Please send somebody over. 25 00:00:55,021 --> 00:00:56,565 [Tom] It's the double murder, that occurred 26 00:00:56,589 --> 00:00:58,391 at 875 South Bundy. 27 00:00:58,525 --> 00:00:59,669 [Operator] Is he black, white or Hispanic? 28 00:00:59,693 --> 00:01:00,894 [Nicole] Black. 29 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,463 [Tom] I was the lead detective in that case. 30 00:01:03,563 --> 00:01:06,866 The evidence led to one suspect and that was O.J. Simpson. 31 00:01:06,933 --> 00:01:08,577 [Operator] He's back, okay, what does he look like? 32 00:01:08,601 --> 00:01:11,071 [Nicole] He's O.J. Simpson. I think you know his record. 33 00:01:11,204 --> 00:01:14,407 [Tom] The Hall of Fame, NFL football player and actor. 34 00:01:14,474 --> 00:01:15,775 [Nicole] He just drove up again. 35 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:17,286 [Operator] What kind of car is he in? 36 00:01:17,310 --> 00:01:18,888 [Nicole] He's in a white Bronco. But first of all, 37 00:01:18,912 --> 00:01:20,413 he broke the back door down... 38 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,216 [Tom] In what has been referred to as the trial of the century. 39 00:01:23,283 --> 00:01:26,119 O.J. was found not guilty of killing his ex-wife, 40 00:01:26,252 --> 00:01:29,255 Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend Ron Goldman. 41 00:01:29,389 --> 00:01:32,759 - [Nicole] O.J. - [Operator] O.J. 42 00:01:33,793 --> 00:01:35,228 Back then, we were gagged. 43 00:01:35,295 --> 00:01:37,139 We couldn't talk to anybody, couldn't talk to the media, 44 00:01:37,163 --> 00:01:39,265 couldn't discuss the case with anybody else. 45 00:01:39,332 --> 00:01:41,334 Victims had their throat slashed. 46 00:01:41,434 --> 00:01:42,769 I'm not gagged now. 47 00:01:42,836 --> 00:01:44,771 All these years later, I could tell a story, 48 00:01:44,904 --> 00:01:47,407 why it happened. The fact that it shouldn't have happened. 49 00:01:47,474 --> 00:01:49,642 We've got the evidence to show it. 50 00:01:56,149 --> 00:01:58,118 [Tom] Hang on the line. I want to talk to you. 51 00:01:58,251 --> 00:01:59,595 - [O.J.] I'm here. - [Tom] Okay, I'm still here. 52 00:01:59,619 --> 00:02:01,354 Just getting a little interference here. 53 00:02:01,454 --> 00:02:03,690 Can you hear me? O.J.? He's gone again. 54 00:02:03,790 --> 00:02:04,958 O.J., you there? 55 00:02:05,091 --> 00:02:07,293 [O.J.] Uh... 56 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:08,194 [Tom] Get rid of the gun. 57 00:02:08,294 --> 00:02:09,462 [O.J.] Uh... 58 00:02:09,596 --> 00:02:11,097 [Tom] Nobody's going to get hurt. 59 00:02:11,164 --> 00:02:14,701 Man to man, right? 60 00:02:15,802 --> 00:02:19,806 Listen, you've been a man Listen, you've been a man a 61 00:02:19,939 --> 00:02:23,143 Don't give in now. 62 00:02:23,276 --> 00:02:25,454 [Reporter] And there are reports that blood stained clothes 63 00:02:25,478 --> 00:02:30,517 a in Simpson's home. 64 00:02:31,284 --> 00:02:32,786 [Man] We can't jump the gun. 65 00:02:32,852 --> 00:02:34,788 We can't afford to make a mistake. 66 00:02:34,854 --> 00:02:37,090 We are very meticulous in what we do. 67 00:02:37,157 --> 00:02:40,827 You don't know the facts of the case. 68 00:02:40,894 --> 00:02:43,172 This is where he parked the Bronco, the night of the murder. 69 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:45,832 A lot of things have changed 70 00:02:45,965 --> 00:02:49,969 approaching Bundy where 875 used to be. 71 00:02:50,103 --> 00:02:52,105 [Reporter] An L.A. homicide detective says 72 00:02:52,172 --> 00:02:54,808 O.J. Simpson's arrest is imminent. 73 00:02:54,874 --> 00:02:57,243 Simpson trial was held right here. 74 00:02:57,344 --> 00:02:59,579 [Reporter] It began early on the morning of June 13th. 75 00:02:59,679 --> 00:03:01,681 Neighbors discovered the bloody murder scene. 76 00:03:01,748 --> 00:03:04,184 He's shocked. He's really grieving. 77 00:03:04,317 --> 00:03:05,518 He's upset. 78 00:03:05,585 --> 00:03:07,887 Mr. Simpson is a fugitive of justice. 79 00:03:08,054 --> 00:03:09,889 I plead 100% not guilty. 80 00:03:10,056 --> 00:03:13,693 This is a trial about the man that murdered my son. 81 00:03:13,827 --> 00:03:17,197 [Woman] Is a trail of blood from [Woman] Is a trail of blood from B 82 00:03:17,263 --> 00:03:18,865 and into the defendant's very bedroom 83 00:03:19,065 --> 00:03:21,501 linked by the defendant's white Ford Bronco. 84 00:03:21,568 --> 00:03:23,068 Get out of the way. 85 00:03:23,069 --> 00:03:24,747 [Man] You think O.J. had a bag with the bloody clothes 86 00:03:24,771 --> 00:03:25,971 - and the knife? - [Man] There! 87 00:03:26,072 --> 00:03:27,350 Have you ever heard the term cover up? 88 00:03:27,374 --> 00:03:28,884 [Reporter] Recognized around the world, 89 00:03:28,908 --> 00:03:31,611 first for speed and athletic grace and now 90 00:03:31,711 --> 00:03:34,080 for a grisly, gripping murder case. 91 00:03:34,180 --> 00:03:36,449 [Tom] Mr. Simpson, you have the right to remain silent. 92 00:03:36,549 --> 00:03:38,060 If you give up the right to remain silent, 93 00:03:38,084 --> 00:03:39,829 anything you say can and will be used against you 94 00:03:39,853 --> 00:03:40,887 in a court of law. 95 00:03:41,087 --> 00:03:43,088 Do you understand your rights? 96 00:03:43,089 --> 00:03:45,458 [Tom] Are there any questions about that? 97 00:03:45,558 --> 00:03:49,229 [Tom] Okay. You going to speak up audibly. 98 00:03:50,730 --> 00:03:53,366 [Tom] You can never have too much evidence in a murder case 99 00:03:53,433 --> 00:03:55,735 period. 100 00:04:00,774 --> 00:04:02,475 It's almost embarrassing to articulate. 101 00:04:02,575 --> 00:04:05,311 But the prosecution withheld a lot of evidence 102 00:04:05,412 --> 00:04:07,747 really pisses you off after a while. 103 00:04:07,814 --> 00:04:10,617 There's good evidence. People don't realize that. 104 00:04:10,750 --> 00:04:12,952 This was just after the Rodney King riots. 105 00:04:13,086 --> 00:04:15,822 The officers in that trial were acquitted. 106 00:04:15,922 --> 00:04:18,658 The LAPD in particular, was not particularly liked 107 00:04:18,758 --> 00:04:20,593 by the populace of L.A.. 108 00:04:20,660 --> 00:04:24,230 Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. 109 00:04:24,297 --> 00:04:27,133 [Tom] So the prosecution is a little, little too careful, 110 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:29,569 I think, not to put on a certain amount of evidence 111 00:04:29,636 --> 00:04:31,471 brought by the LAPD. 112 00:04:31,604 --> 00:04:33,073 Okay, I want people who watch this 113 00:04:33,106 --> 00:04:34,507 to walk away with the truth. 114 00:04:34,607 --> 00:04:37,944 I don't want them to have a comic book version of this case. 115 00:04:38,078 --> 00:04:39,946 [O.J.] Is that I did not, could not, would not 116 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,449 have committed this crime. 117 00:04:42,515 --> 00:04:46,619 I have four kids, kids I haven't seen in a year. 118 00:04:53,093 --> 00:04:55,962 All you can do is all you can do. 119 00:04:56,096 --> 00:04:57,473 [Reporter] Los Angeles homicide detective 120 00:04:57,497 --> 00:04:59,699 T 121 00:04:59,799 --> 00:05:02,435 But hey, we've got witnesses. We've got experts. 122 00:05:02,502 --> 00:05:07,040 They're going to tell this audience what happened for real, 123 00:05:07,107 --> 00:05:08,541 they're not going to juice it. 124 00:05:08,641 --> 00:05:10,143 My name is Michelle Kessler, 125 00:05:10,210 --> 00:05:12,479 former employee of the Los Angeles Police Department. 126 00:05:12,612 --> 00:05:14,948 I was involved in many high profile cases. 127 00:05:15,048 --> 00:05:17,384 Hillside Strangler case, nude bodies were found 128 00:05:17,484 --> 00:05:19,128 on the hilly slopes around the Hollywood... 129 00:05:19,152 --> 00:05:21,888 ARamirez is a devil worshiper 130 00:05:22,055 --> 00:05:24,624 And of course, the O.J. Simpson case. 131 00:05:24,691 --> 00:05:27,460 I'm Alan Park, O.J. Simpson's limousine driver. 132 00:05:27,527 --> 00:05:30,063 The night of June 12, 1994. 133 00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:33,900 6' 200lbs, it just seems to be a pretty big female. 134 00:05:34,067 --> 00:05:35,845 You wouldn't lie to me when I talk to you, would you? 135 00:05:35,869 --> 00:05:40,073 My name is Rod Englert. I'm a crime scene reconstructionist. 136 00:05:40,173 --> 00:05:42,676 Now, let me tell you, the shots that are fired, there's three. 137 00:05:42,742 --> 00:05:45,178 He was convicted and is doing life in the penitentiary. 138 00:05:45,311 --> 00:05:47,514 I've worked on some very high profile cases. 139 00:05:47,647 --> 00:05:49,082 Robert Blake. 140 00:05:49,149 --> 00:05:50,826 [Woman] We the jury find the defendant not guilty 141 00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:53,253 of the crime of first degree murder of Bonny Lee Bakley. 142 00:05:53,353 --> 00:05:55,155 I was retained in this particular case 143 00:05:55,221 --> 00:05:58,391 to do a reconstruction of what did or didn't occur. 144 00:05:58,525 --> 00:06:00,527 California versus O.J. Simpson. 145 00:06:00,660 --> 00:06:04,864 Okay, get your knife. It's very important we start a time. 146 00:06:04,931 --> 00:06:06,909 Just and it was sort of like, you know, someone said, 147 00:06:06,933 --> 00:06:09,145 you're on the edge of your seat. I'm on the edge of my seat. 148 00:06:09,169 --> 00:06:13,340 Listening of is he lying? This guy's lying, like... Yes. 149 00:06:13,406 --> 00:06:15,542 [Reporter] As Clark stared down her own witness. 150 00:06:15,608 --> 00:06:18,678 This isn't for entertainment as much as it is for education. 151 00:06:18,745 --> 00:06:20,580 I'm not an actor. Okay? 152 00:06:20,714 --> 00:06:22,558 I'm going to put this out. What really happened? 153 00:06:22,582 --> 00:06:25,285 Number one, I'm tired of people lying and the media, 154 00:06:25,385 --> 00:06:26,886 the lawyers. 155 00:06:26,953 --> 00:06:29,589 This will clear all of that up. We're going to get to everything 156 00:06:29,723 --> 00:06:33,126 that screwed this case up. What happened happened. 157 00:06:33,226 --> 00:06:34,694 You don't buy it. You buy it. 158 00:06:34,761 --> 00:06:36,730 It's still gonna tell you 2 and 2 is 4, 159 00:06:36,796 --> 00:06:39,566 I'm not a salesman. 160 00:06:39,699 --> 00:06:41,444 [Rod] This will be a reconstruction based upon 161 00:06:41,468 --> 00:06:44,237 the physical evidence, the autopsy, the blood patterns, 162 00:06:44,371 --> 00:06:47,807 trace evidence, and the patterns of blood on the clothing 163 00:06:47,907 --> 00:06:49,642 and at the scene. 164 00:06:49,743 --> 00:06:51,811 I was retained in this case to come in and do 165 00:06:51,911 --> 00:06:53,446 a crime scene reconstruction 166 00:06:53,580 --> 00:06:56,149 with emphasis on blood pattern analysis, 167 00:06:56,249 --> 00:06:58,752 and to be able to put the pieces together. 168 00:06:58,818 --> 00:07:02,088 This what appeared to be a large puzzle at the time. 169 00:07:02,222 --> 00:07:03,599 [Nicole] He's going to beat the shit out of... 170 00:07:03,623 --> 00:07:05,267 [Operator] Wait a minute, just stay on the line 171 00:07:05,291 --> 00:07:09,162 s t 172 00:07:09,262 --> 00:07:10,797 - Okay Nicole? - [Nicole] Uh-huh. 173 00:07:10,930 --> 00:07:13,299 [Rod] So I have these props and props give one the ability 174 00:07:13,433 --> 00:07:18,338 to be able to reconstruct based again solely upon the evidence. 175 00:07:18,438 --> 00:07:19,939 There's no speculation here. 176 00:07:20,073 --> 00:07:22,575 The attacker comes to the residence 177 00:07:22,642 --> 00:07:24,277 and I want to put on the props. 178 00:07:24,411 --> 00:07:26,322 [Tom] This is about the victims. That's where we're here. 179 00:07:26,346 --> 00:07:28,448 That's our job. We gotta find out who did this. 180 00:07:28,581 --> 00:07:30,617 I asked you to go back up to like you're pretending 181 00:07:30,750 --> 00:07:32,118 to come out of your apartment. 182 00:07:32,252 --> 00:07:33,972 And when the attacker gets to the residence, 183 00:07:34,054 --> 00:07:35,054 gets a knife... 184 00:07:39,092 --> 00:07:43,663 And as Nicole steps down, she is stabbed on the head 185 00:07:43,797 --> 00:07:45,331 and she have contusions on her head. 186 00:07:45,465 --> 00:07:49,803 And there are four stab wounds on the left side of her neck 187 00:07:49,936 --> 00:07:51,971 that penetrate down to her heart. 188 00:07:52,072 --> 00:07:56,476 She goes down on the ground with her head on the first step. 189 00:07:56,609 --> 00:07:59,212 She's bleeding from the wounds on her left side, 190 00:07:59,312 --> 00:08:02,015 making a pool of blood that not only is filling up 191 00:08:02,115 --> 00:08:05,785 this particular area, but it's running down onto the sidewalk, 192 00:08:05,852 --> 00:08:09,322 simultaneously to that as Ron walks up a witness hears, 193 00:08:09,456 --> 00:08:12,692 Hey, hey, hey. He is stabbed on his left side, 194 00:08:12,826 --> 00:08:16,162 which is a very fatal wound that starts bleeding 195 00:08:16,229 --> 00:08:19,833 down his pant leg and they will stomp spreading the blood 196 00:08:20,033 --> 00:08:23,069 that's projecting large and small stains onto the clothing. 197 00:08:23,169 --> 00:08:25,638 They back up into this area, spattering blood 198 00:08:25,705 --> 00:08:28,808 by stomping in the blood of Nicole that is now running 199 00:08:28,875 --> 00:08:32,379 from her wounds. She's bleeding profusely. 200 00:08:32,512 --> 00:08:36,149 I am backed up against her as the glove comes off 201 00:08:36,216 --> 00:08:38,885 and as you pull it off, let it go down over to the left, 202 00:08:39,052 --> 00:08:41,221 along with the glasses that drop. 203 00:08:41,354 --> 00:08:43,857 [Tom] And every question that came up, he's answered 204 00:08:44,057 --> 00:08:46,259 and he was never called. There's no reason for that, 205 00:08:46,359 --> 00:08:48,595 except I have my own opinion on why he wasn't called. 206 00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:50,063 If you want to hear that? 207 00:08:50,196 --> 00:08:52,341 [Rod] During the struggle, I'm trying to get in your throat 208 00:08:52,365 --> 00:08:56,069 and then you reach up and pull the hat off of my head. 209 00:08:56,102 --> 00:08:59,539 It will fall there to our left hand side. 210 00:08:59,606 --> 00:09:01,441 [Tom] This is the LAPD on trial. 211 00:09:01,541 --> 00:09:04,577 This is the LAPD who've been accused of being racist, 212 00:09:04,711 --> 00:09:07,547 of planting evidence and the jury, again, 213 00:09:07,614 --> 00:09:10,717 they were being fed this by the prosecution. 214 00:09:10,784 --> 00:09:15,622 Fine. But you can't put evidence on unless you put the person on 215 00:09:15,722 --> 00:09:18,725 who found the evidence. You have to admit it 216 00:09:18,858 --> 00:09:22,228 legally in a court of law, on the stand, under oath, 217 00:09:22,295 --> 00:09:25,231 in court, you can't just come in and drop a piece of evidence, 218 00:09:25,365 --> 00:09:27,734 and say, we want this, we want the jury to look at this. 219 00:09:27,867 --> 00:09:30,437 The prosecutor, for better or worse, 220 00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:33,239 did not want to appear to be in bed with the cops. 221 00:09:33,306 --> 00:09:35,375 [Rod] You get the knife in while you're struggling, 222 00:09:35,442 --> 00:09:37,210 cutting in the margins of the wound, 223 00:09:37,277 --> 00:09:39,746 different planes creating what's called a swallowtail wound. 224 00:09:39,813 --> 00:09:43,383 And as we go over to the area here, we're still fighting. 225 00:09:43,450 --> 00:09:47,220 You will go around and then down on your buttocks, 226 00:09:47,287 --> 00:09:50,390 your pager will pop off of your belt. 227 00:09:50,457 --> 00:09:53,827 And as it comes off, you will also bleed on to this rail, 228 00:09:53,927 --> 00:09:56,062 the bottom rail that we have here. 229 00:09:56,129 --> 00:10:00,000 And I go back over to Nicole, cut from left to right, 230 00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:04,104 capturing and cutting a large amount of hairs on to the knife 231 00:10:04,170 --> 00:10:06,473 and then goes over to Ron Goldman. 232 00:10:06,606 --> 00:10:10,610 There's two grab marks and blood on the back side of his shirt. 233 00:10:10,744 --> 00:10:13,480 Grab Mark is consistent with pulling him over 234 00:10:13,613 --> 00:10:17,183 because in the scene photograph, this shirt is pulled up 235 00:10:17,283 --> 00:10:19,953 and then the attacker from right to left 236 00:10:20,020 --> 00:10:23,423 will cut his throat also, as was done to Nicole. 237 00:10:23,490 --> 00:10:26,760 The attacker will leave and go over to Nicole, 238 00:10:26,826 --> 00:10:30,764 step on and put an impression of the Bruno Magli shoe 239 00:10:30,830 --> 00:10:33,533 onto her right side below the arm, 240 00:10:33,633 --> 00:10:37,804 and then continue and drop blood from cutting his own finger 241 00:10:37,871 --> 00:10:40,440 when attacking Ron will drip blood to the left, 242 00:10:40,507 --> 00:10:42,442 continue all the way back to the alley, 243 00:10:42,509 --> 00:10:45,278 which is about 200 feet back. 244 00:10:45,345 --> 00:10:48,481 There is so much evidence in this case, the only way 245 00:10:48,615 --> 00:10:51,785 that the defense can work towards resolving it 246 00:10:51,851 --> 00:10:54,187 in their favor is to just throwing dirt 247 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,658 to take the attention away from the case in chief. 248 00:10:58,725 --> 00:11:03,563 O and the cover up continues. 249 00:11:04,364 --> 00:11:06,800 [Tom] This is the only personal journal that exists 250 00:11:06,866 --> 00:11:09,235 in this entire case. 251 00:11:09,336 --> 00:11:12,806 It is currently in the Law Enforcement Museum 252 00:11:12,872 --> 00:11:14,541 in Washington, DC. 253 00:11:14,674 --> 00:11:18,712 This is personal. These are observations that I made, 254 00:11:18,845 --> 00:11:23,083 people I had dealings with, and it's the case in my own words 255 00:11:23,183 --> 00:11:25,585 and my own thoughts and my own deeds. 256 00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:28,688 I'm using a rubber glove. It's human blood. 257 00:11:30,590 --> 00:11:33,927 That is medium velocity spatter. 258 00:11:34,094 --> 00:11:35,838 [Tom] Photographed here, we're very interested in 259 00:11:35,862 --> 00:11:39,265 this blood droplet or cast off whatever you want to call it, 260 00:11:39,366 --> 00:11:42,168 possibly from a wound you said or maybe a murder weapon. 261 00:11:42,235 --> 00:11:45,105 We don't know. But we want this because it's out of place. 262 00:11:45,205 --> 00:11:47,273 [Rod] But the thing that's significant, it shows up, 263 00:11:47,374 --> 00:11:49,876 up here by the steps and it goes all the way back, 264 00:11:50,010 --> 00:11:52,379 drops like that to the back gate, 265 00:11:52,445 --> 00:11:54,714 which about 200 feet away to the alley. 266 00:11:54,781 --> 00:11:57,450 [Tom] I made a specific request through the investigator 267 00:11:57,550 --> 00:12:00,053 - to collect all of this blood. - You did say that. 268 00:12:00,186 --> 00:12:02,188 Oh, I said that and she wrote it down. 269 00:12:02,255 --> 00:12:04,891 Again everything goes sideways, sometimes at the worst times, 270 00:12:04,958 --> 00:12:09,229 the coroner's investigator was off with a broken leg, 271 00:12:09,362 --> 00:12:11,197 so they did not have a criminalist there. 272 00:12:11,264 --> 00:12:14,401 So instead of somebody inquiring washed the body down. 273 00:12:14,534 --> 00:12:15,902 Which can be the attackers blood. 274 00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:17,546 Yeah, the donor could be the attacker. 275 00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:20,140 [Tom] Yeah. And of course, the defense got all over us. 276 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,210 The real story behind this, however, just inches away, 277 00:12:24,277 --> 00:12:27,213 we have a similar drop on the sole of the left boot. 278 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:28,748 Here it is right here, Ron Goldman. 279 00:12:28,882 --> 00:12:30,417 - Okay. - We have this, is a droplet 280 00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:34,754 - or a cast off tailing down. - And it's not disturbed. 281 00:12:34,821 --> 00:12:37,123 - Blood's everywhere. - Yeah, but no some's fallen 282 00:12:37,257 --> 00:12:41,494 in the air after these two are down and they're immobile. 283 00:12:41,594 --> 00:12:44,130 So what would that be? Right. 284 00:12:44,264 --> 00:12:47,334 The knife. Because they had knife wounds or like you said, 285 00:12:47,434 --> 00:12:48,601 the attacker. 286 00:12:48,735 --> 00:12:50,695 Thank God the coroner didn't get hold of that boot 287 00:12:50,770 --> 00:12:52,105 and wash it down. 288 00:12:52,238 --> 00:12:54,550 So we were able to get the blood off of the sole of the boot. 289 00:12:54,574 --> 00:12:56,976 Take your eye off the ball or off the prize. 290 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:58,945 If you deviate from what you normally do, 291 00:12:59,012 --> 00:13:00,447 you're going to screw it up. 292 00:13:00,513 --> 00:13:02,615 Whose blood is on that droplet? It's a mixture. 293 00:13:02,749 --> 00:13:05,118 Both victims is on that blood droplet. 294 00:13:05,251 --> 00:13:08,054 Came from a common source to further corroborate, 295 00:13:08,121 --> 00:13:10,857 we look at the same area here, indicating what appears to be 296 00:13:10,957 --> 00:13:13,093 a footwear impression right here. See that? 297 00:13:13,159 --> 00:13:15,495 Turns out that that is a footwear impression 298 00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:17,931 from a pair of Bruno Magli shoes. 299 00:13:18,064 --> 00:13:21,701 At this point, the FBI had identified the bloody footwear 300 00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:25,138 impressions at the crime scene as being from Bruno Maglis, 301 00:13:25,271 --> 00:13:27,841 but we couldn't at that point put Bruno Maglis 302 00:13:27,974 --> 00:13:29,142 on Simpson's feet. 303 00:13:29,209 --> 00:13:31,811 Dominic Brown is Nicole's younger sister, 304 00:13:31,945 --> 00:13:33,646 so I met her for lunch and I said, 305 00:13:33,713 --> 00:13:35,648 I've got six pictures I want to show you. 306 00:13:35,782 --> 00:13:38,318 They're all of shoes, she goes right to the Bruno Maglis. 307 00:13:38,451 --> 00:13:40,320 She says, O.J. has shoes like that. 308 00:13:40,387 --> 00:13:42,989 So I'm thinking this is a little too good to be true. 309 00:13:43,123 --> 00:13:47,494 So she says Nicole was back in New York in January 310 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,472 and she may have bought them for him at that time, 311 00:13:49,496 --> 00:13:50,830 but I don't know for sure. 312 00:13:50,964 --> 00:13:53,566 There she also bought some Bruno Maglis for herself. 313 00:13:53,667 --> 00:13:55,502 She wore 'em for a while and just she didn't 314 00:13:55,568 --> 00:13:58,505 really care for them, so she gave them to me. 315 00:13:58,571 --> 00:14:00,507 So really, in fact, I'm wearing them. 316 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,245 She takes off for Bruno Maglis and puts them on the table. 317 00:14:05,345 --> 00:14:06,846 That's pretty good stuff. 318 00:14:06,913 --> 00:14:09,416 Why would you not want to have her testify to that in court? 319 00:14:09,516 --> 00:14:11,518 And that never happened. It turns out that 320 00:14:11,651 --> 00:14:14,654 the Bruno Maglis at the crime scene, were size 12. 321 00:14:14,721 --> 00:14:17,190 His athletic shoes, by his own admission 322 00:14:17,257 --> 00:14:19,592 that he was wearing were size 12 also. 323 00:14:19,693 --> 00:14:22,228 If Simpson turns out, if he's a size 10, 324 00:14:22,362 --> 00:14:25,365 that's exculpatory evidence, defense would use that. 325 00:14:25,432 --> 00:14:27,043 And that's enough for a juror to say, well, 326 00:14:27,067 --> 00:14:29,078 it couldn't have been him, this is different shoe size. 327 00:14:29,102 --> 00:14:30,437 We've got nothing like that. 328 00:14:30,537 --> 00:14:31,938 Wife beater, rapist, murderer. 329 00:14:32,072 --> 00:14:33,249 [Reporter] There is enough evidence 330 00:14:33,273 --> 00:14:34,574 to put Simpson on trial. 331 00:14:34,708 --> 00:14:36,876 About two or three days after the murders occurred. 332 00:14:36,943 --> 00:14:39,245 Defense attorneys at the time, Bob Shapiro. 333 00:14:39,379 --> 00:14:41,848 Is it not 60? Is it 10,000? 334 00:14:41,915 --> 00:14:45,752 [Tom] He came to our office at robbery homicide in his style 335 00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:50,089 requested, suggested that he could perhaps help 336 00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:53,259 our investigation along as a defense attorney 337 00:14:53,393 --> 00:14:58,098 if he would provide us with a criminalist and a pathologist 338 00:14:58,231 --> 00:15:01,534 to assist us with our investigation of the body 339 00:15:01,601 --> 00:15:04,070 as evidence, but that is brassy, 340 00:15:04,137 --> 00:15:06,806 so I guess we can't blame him for trying. 341 00:15:06,906 --> 00:15:08,475 It didn't work that way. 342 00:15:08,575 --> 00:15:11,411 Now, as we're sitting here doing the crime scene investigation, 343 00:15:11,478 --> 00:15:14,748 this pager continually went off the entire night. 344 00:15:14,881 --> 00:15:18,084 We find out coworkers at the Mezzaluna Restaurant 345 00:15:18,218 --> 00:15:20,754 was trying to get a hold of him, that this was kind of eerie 346 00:15:20,820 --> 00:15:23,423 listening to this. This is going on throughout the whole night. 347 00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:26,126 We're doing the whole crime scene investigation, 348 00:15:26,259 --> 00:15:28,328 but it turns out it was, in fact, his friend. 349 00:15:28,428 --> 00:15:29,896 They wanted to go out drinking. 350 00:15:29,963 --> 00:15:32,766 [Rod] Look at the blood that's on the small tree transfer. 351 00:15:32,832 --> 00:15:34,501 He had to be up against that. 352 00:15:34,601 --> 00:15:36,545 And then there's a little pool of blood where he was 353 00:15:36,569 --> 00:15:40,440 up against that so that when the attacker went over to Nicole 354 00:15:40,507 --> 00:15:43,743 to cut her throat, then he came back to him and cut his throat. 355 00:15:43,810 --> 00:15:45,945 And that's what evidence does. It tells that he was 356 00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:48,481 in this seated position before being pulled over 357 00:15:48,615 --> 00:15:50,083 and then his throat was cut. 358 00:15:50,116 --> 00:15:51,785 [Tom] So he was going between her and him. 359 00:15:51,851 --> 00:15:53,411 - [Rod] Exactly. - [Tom] More than once. 360 00:15:53,453 --> 00:15:55,598 [Rod] You know why? Because he want to make sure they're dead. 361 00:15:55,622 --> 00:15:57,266 And the only way to do that in this person, 362 00:15:57,290 --> 00:15:59,459 - the attacker's mind. - Yeah? 363 00:15:59,526 --> 00:16:02,028 Here's the cap, again, the Bruno Magli 364 00:16:02,128 --> 00:16:05,031 footwear impression here. Very important stuff. 365 00:16:05,098 --> 00:16:06,700 And note, she's still bleeding 366 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,011 because the blood is running over the top of the footprint. 367 00:16:09,035 --> 00:16:10,470 She's nearly decapitated. 368 00:16:10,537 --> 00:16:13,673 As we remove her body, you can see her vertebra from the front. 369 00:16:13,807 --> 00:16:16,142 If you look at Ron Goldman, you have, you know, like 370 00:16:16,209 --> 00:16:21,481 20 different sized stab wounds. Ron fought hard, hard, hard. 371 00:16:21,614 --> 00:16:24,284 Ron, he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. 372 00:16:24,351 --> 00:16:26,051 The blood in here is everywhere. 373 00:16:26,052 --> 00:16:28,955 Nicole, she was in the wrong place for a long time. 374 00:16:29,055 --> 00:16:31,524 [Tom] And that became a bone of contention later on 375 00:16:31,658 --> 00:16:33,827 when we were also accused of planting the blood. 376 00:16:33,893 --> 00:16:36,093 Yeah, which is something else. But then you and later... 377 00:16:36,162 --> 00:16:38,331 [Rod] But you had to have knowledge on how to plant it. 378 00:16:38,398 --> 00:16:39,666 Well, to make it fit. 379 00:16:39,799 --> 00:16:41,468 [Tom] Not only that, but Simpson's blood 380 00:16:41,534 --> 00:16:44,070 w-we picked up at the scene. He's back in Chicago, 381 00:16:44,137 --> 00:16:46,072 so how did we get his blood from Chicago to here? 382 00:16:46,139 --> 00:16:47,173 [Rod] Yeah. 383 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:48,680 [Tom] Well, it didn't make any sense. 384 00:16:48,742 --> 00:16:49,942 I know, I know. Listen to this. 385 00:16:50,076 --> 00:16:51,287 So there's a city of 8 million people. 386 00:16:51,311 --> 00:16:52,579 - Yeah? - You have a Bronco, 387 00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:53,813 that's a scene. 388 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,915 You have Bundy Street, that's a scene. 389 00:16:56,082 --> 00:16:57,642 And you have Rockingham. That's a scene. 390 00:16:57,684 --> 00:17:01,688 You got all three people's blood at each one of those locations 391 00:17:01,755 --> 00:17:03,690 in that two hour period. 392 00:17:03,757 --> 00:17:06,026 And it's so simple. It is so simple. 393 00:17:06,092 --> 00:17:08,762 So everybody was taking shots at everybody else. 394 00:17:08,862 --> 00:17:10,730 Everybody pointing fingers in every direction. 395 00:17:10,864 --> 00:17:14,034 We were fighting, not just involving in the case 396 00:17:14,167 --> 00:17:16,036 and these attorneys, but the media. 397 00:17:16,169 --> 00:17:20,573 Rod Englert alluded to some of this when his home was prowled, 398 00:17:20,707 --> 00:17:22,509 there was a team for the defense 399 00:17:22,575 --> 00:17:24,177 that was going through people's trash. 400 00:17:24,244 --> 00:17:28,548 Friends of mine at my church were contacted secretly 401 00:17:28,682 --> 00:17:30,083 because I was a youth leader. 402 00:17:30,216 --> 00:17:34,421 People were interviewed about my interaction with kids. 403 00:17:34,554 --> 00:17:39,059 Yes, it did affect my life. It was both my wife, my family. 404 00:17:39,092 --> 00:17:42,562 Now, before Ron Goldman was removed, you couldn't see 405 00:17:42,696 --> 00:17:44,731 the keys because they were concealed. 406 00:17:44,798 --> 00:17:48,535 You can see the drag marks here after the pull the body out. 407 00:17:48,601 --> 00:17:52,439 Keys are interesting because he was probably holding the keys. 408 00:17:52,572 --> 00:17:54,474 The keys belong to his girlfriend. 409 00:17:54,574 --> 00:17:57,777 He drove her car the night of the murders. 410 00:17:57,911 --> 00:18:00,914 When these keys were picked up, they were booked into evidence. 411 00:18:01,014 --> 00:18:03,616 There was no blood in those keys and they were booked 412 00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:07,087 and they were consequently released to the girlfriend. 413 00:18:07,153 --> 00:18:09,155 She made a complaint when she got the keys back 414 00:18:09,255 --> 00:18:11,200 said, oh, there's blood all over them, they were terrible 415 00:18:11,224 --> 00:18:12,492 - and everything else. - Right. 416 00:18:12,592 --> 00:18:15,562 Well, somehow the defense got a hold of this statement. 417 00:18:15,628 --> 00:18:19,566 The defense said, well, perhaps the real suspect 418 00:18:19,632 --> 00:18:22,802 got the keys from Ron and there was blood on them. 419 00:18:22,936 --> 00:18:26,306 And that blood belongs to perhaps the real suspect 420 00:18:26,439 --> 00:18:27,907 using the keys as a weapon. 421 00:18:28,041 --> 00:18:30,152 [Rod] There's no speculation, there's no guesswork where 422 00:18:30,176 --> 00:18:34,114 the donor has been identified with those particular patterns. 423 00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:35,749 It made it very, very solid. 424 00:18:35,815 --> 00:18:38,318 [Tom] Because we have a mixture of blood coming from 425 00:18:38,451 --> 00:18:41,621 a common murder weapon and his sole to this day, 426 00:18:41,688 --> 00:18:44,958 the defense claims, well, there's probably a second one. 427 00:18:45,058 --> 00:18:46,793 There's no evidence of a second one. 428 00:18:46,860 --> 00:18:49,362 We looked for that evidence. I looked for that evidence. 429 00:18:49,462 --> 00:18:53,099 I examined every piece of that sidewalk and then going 430 00:18:53,166 --> 00:18:56,269 all the way back to the back, about 200 feet to where 431 00:18:56,336 --> 00:18:58,304 the Bronco was parked in the alley. 432 00:18:58,438 --> 00:19:00,540 And there's no evidence whatsoever that there was 433 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,175 more than one individual. 434 00:19:02,308 --> 00:19:04,444 [Tom] The evidence tells us without any doubt, 435 00:19:04,511 --> 00:19:06,022 because of the blood and because of this, 436 00:19:06,046 --> 00:19:07,514 - there's only one suspect. - Right. 437 00:19:07,647 --> 00:19:10,483 When we came, the blood is going all the way down the walkway 438 00:19:10,617 --> 00:19:13,620 and she just about bled out. When we did the autopsy. 439 00:19:13,687 --> 00:19:16,823 She didn't have a whole lot of blood in her. 440 00:19:22,395 --> 00:19:24,497 As far as my role in the OJ Simpson case, 441 00:19:24,631 --> 00:19:28,401 I was involved in examining the Bronco. 442 00:19:28,501 --> 00:19:29,836 [Tom] John Rogers, remember John? 443 00:19:30,036 --> 00:19:31,471 - Yes. - [Tom] Good guy, 444 00:19:31,538 --> 00:19:35,141 classmate of mine, he calls me at about 3-3:15 in the morning, 445 00:19:35,208 --> 00:19:37,510 Tom, the captain wants to buy you a cup of coffee. 446 00:19:39,346 --> 00:19:41,681 No, hello, how are you? I'm sorry I woke you. 447 00:19:41,815 --> 00:19:43,416 So we know we got something going on. 448 00:19:43,516 --> 00:19:46,586 So he tells me they have this double O.J. Simpson's ex-wife, 449 00:19:46,686 --> 00:19:48,188 I think he said, may be involved, 450 00:19:48,254 --> 00:19:49,589 but we don't know for sure. 451 00:19:49,689 --> 00:19:51,769 They got all of Bundy blocked off. He's on the steps. 452 00:19:51,858 --> 00:19:54,594 The lower part of the steps, four feet, ten inches away. 453 00:19:54,694 --> 00:19:56,930 There's a second victim, Ron Goldman. 454 00:19:57,063 --> 00:19:59,699 When the sun came up, we begin to find more blood. 455 00:19:59,833 --> 00:20:03,670 This is Rockingham gate, the blood tailed up the driveway 456 00:20:03,737 --> 00:20:06,873 and right into the house. A Bronco was parked out in front. 457 00:20:06,940 --> 00:20:09,876 I had nothing against O.J. Simpson, and I was shocked 458 00:20:09,943 --> 00:20:11,511 that he was a suspect. 459 00:20:11,578 --> 00:20:14,547 Here's the master bedroom. These are O.J. socks he took off 460 00:20:14,614 --> 00:20:16,094 when he returned from the crime scene. 461 00:20:16,216 --> 00:20:18,051 So the bathroom is back over here. 462 00:20:18,184 --> 00:20:20,020 What's interesting, your guys went up there 463 00:20:20,086 --> 00:20:22,422 and they checked the sink and they check the shower stall 464 00:20:22,555 --> 00:20:24,891 because Simpson had said that he took a shower, 465 00:20:24,958 --> 00:20:28,061 but in the sink and the shower stall, 466 00:20:28,128 --> 00:20:29,696 the bar soap lying in the bottom, 467 00:20:29,763 --> 00:20:30,764 what do we find? 468 00:20:30,897 --> 00:20:32,599 - Blood. - Blood. Traces of blood. 469 00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:35,068 So we know he was in the shower. 470 00:20:35,201 --> 00:20:38,872 Now you can see some of these photos where you start to see 471 00:20:38,938 --> 00:20:43,243 stains by the naked eye. Smears of blood everywhere. 472 00:20:43,309 --> 00:20:47,313 Began to believe it was really O.J. Simpson and nobody else. 473 00:20:52,686 --> 00:20:55,655 He has a knife. She's nearly decapitated. 474 00:20:55,722 --> 00:20:57,023 He is stabbed. 475 00:20:57,157 --> 00:21:00,160 When the sun came up, begin to find more blood. 476 00:21:00,226 --> 00:21:03,329 In the sink and the shower stall. 477 00:21:03,463 --> 00:21:06,166 The bar soap lying in the bottom what do we find? 478 00:21:06,232 --> 00:21:07,667 - Blood. - Blood. 479 00:21:07,734 --> 00:21:10,403 This is what, 25 years later that there was a second suspect. 480 00:21:10,503 --> 00:21:14,073 They can't tell you why. They say the cops planted evidence, 481 00:21:14,074 --> 00:21:16,743 but they can't show us evidence of the cops planting evidence. 482 00:21:16,843 --> 00:21:19,145 They said the lab was involved in this conspiracy, 483 00:21:19,212 --> 00:21:21,181 but they can't show us any evidence of that. 484 00:21:21,247 --> 00:21:23,416 And I don't know if you can imagine how many people 485 00:21:23,516 --> 00:21:26,353 it would take to pull together this conspiracy. 486 00:21:26,419 --> 00:21:28,922 Basically, overnight, the evidence in general 487 00:21:29,089 --> 00:21:32,258 was found within 24 hours. 488 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,229 [Tom] The LAPD has a policy that all searches, 489 00:21:36,363 --> 00:21:39,232 after they're completed, will be videotaped 490 00:21:39,366 --> 00:21:41,368 to show that we have not trashed it. 491 00:21:41,434 --> 00:21:43,570 The defense gets the video that we took. 492 00:21:43,703 --> 00:21:45,205 We turned it over to the defense. 493 00:21:45,271 --> 00:21:46,511 Looking at the video, they say, 494 00:21:46,573 --> 00:21:47,933 wait a minute, where are the socks? 495 00:21:48,008 --> 00:21:50,343 There's no socks here. They must have been planted. 496 00:21:50,410 --> 00:21:51,778 They're not in the video. 497 00:21:51,878 --> 00:21:55,215 Unknowing to them, when the video was actually made 498 00:21:55,348 --> 00:21:58,752 after, not before, this is very simply explained 499 00:21:58,885 --> 00:22:01,354 where the video was taken after. 500 00:22:01,421 --> 00:22:05,225 Today, people still say, what about the socks thing? 501 00:22:05,558 --> 00:22:07,794 There were a little over 1,000 crime scene photos 502 00:22:07,894 --> 00:22:10,063 of the Bronco, of Rockingham, of Bundy 503 00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:11,865 and all turned over to the defense. 504 00:22:11,931 --> 00:22:14,567 This is August 27th. So this is a 505 00:22:14,634 --> 00:22:15,902 little over two months later 506 00:22:15,969 --> 00:22:17,380 and they don't know where the bodies were 507 00:22:17,404 --> 00:22:19,072 at the crime scene? No, they had no idea. 508 00:22:19,205 --> 00:22:20,883 They thought the bodies were by the front doors. 509 00:22:20,907 --> 00:22:23,777 I said no, they're down here near the front gate. 510 00:22:23,910 --> 00:22:26,746 This is where Nicole was. This is where Ron was over here. 511 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,082 And they're not taking any notes, but there's plenty of 512 00:22:29,149 --> 00:22:31,251 camera work going on with the media. 513 00:22:33,286 --> 00:22:34,988 You can see in this picture right here, 514 00:22:35,088 --> 00:22:37,891 my hair used to be red and not white. 515 00:22:37,957 --> 00:22:39,426 - Okay. - But anyway, 516 00:22:39,492 --> 00:22:42,896 we went in to examine the Bronco for blood patterns. 517 00:22:42,962 --> 00:22:46,800 To our surprise, we found a lot more blood. 518 00:22:46,933 --> 00:22:50,403 You can see some of these photos that I have here 519 00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:53,940 where you start to see stains by the naked eye. 520 00:22:54,007 --> 00:22:56,009 Smears of blood everywhere. 521 00:22:56,109 --> 00:23:00,313 Began to believe it was really O.J. Simpson and nobody else 522 00:23:00,447 --> 00:23:03,049 when there was no other blood found at the crime scene 523 00:23:03,116 --> 00:23:05,051 except the victims 524 00:23:05,118 --> 00:23:09,055 and O.J. Simpson's by th... where he said he parked his car. 525 00:23:09,122 --> 00:23:12,125 [Tom] When we take the doors off, take the console out, 526 00:23:12,192 --> 00:23:14,828 take the seats out, take the back out, 527 00:23:14,961 --> 00:23:17,831 strip everything out. We find a lot of interesting stuff. 528 00:23:17,964 --> 00:23:20,967 We were accused of finding all this extra blood, 529 00:23:21,101 --> 00:23:25,538 more of it as planting it. It's another stab to the heart. 530 00:23:25,638 --> 00:23:30,076 The jurors, that was another story testifying. 531 00:23:30,143 --> 00:23:33,113 And I look over and you try to talk to the jury 532 00:23:33,179 --> 00:23:34,948 and you try to speak in lay terms 533 00:23:35,081 --> 00:23:38,318 and they're taking notes and kind of giggling to each other 534 00:23:38,385 --> 00:23:40,987 and whispering, I can't believe that Judge Ito 535 00:23:41,087 --> 00:23:44,891 didn't put a stop to that, nor did the prosecuting attorneys 536 00:23:44,991 --> 00:23:46,226 say anything. 537 00:23:46,326 --> 00:23:48,695 Everything was attacked. That's their only defense. 538 00:23:48,828 --> 00:23:50,497 They're going to tell you it was lies. 539 00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:53,199 They're going to tell you it was a conspiracy. 540 00:23:53,333 --> 00:23:55,669 We were very happy that we found this amount of blood 541 00:23:55,802 --> 00:23:57,971 because in those days, analyzing DNA, 542 00:23:58,104 --> 00:24:00,473 you needed a lot of blood. We proved that it was 543 00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:05,145 a combination of Ron Goldman, Nicole Simpson and O.J. Simpson. 544 00:24:05,211 --> 00:24:10,316 Evidence that was collected from the Bronco is enormous. 545 00:24:10,383 --> 00:24:14,054 Get any prosecutor in the country that prosecutes cases, 546 00:24:14,187 --> 00:24:16,356 would love to have what's just in the Bronco. 547 00:24:16,489 --> 00:24:18,058 [O.J.] Just tell them I'm all sorry. 548 00:24:18,158 --> 00:24:20,360 Y and tomorrow that I was sorry 549 00:24:20,427 --> 00:24:23,163 and that I'm sorry that I did this to the police department. 550 00:24:23,229 --> 00:24:25,269 [Tom] Listen, I think you should tell them yourself. 551 00:24:25,331 --> 00:24:29,068 After the chase, we obviously searched... searched the rear. 552 00:24:29,069 --> 00:24:30,503 We searched the whole thing. 553 00:24:30,570 --> 00:24:32,072 You gonna go to the house? 554 00:24:32,172 --> 00:24:33,683 [O.J.] That's where I told you we weren't... you know, 555 00:24:33,707 --> 00:24:35,747 you just let them all know. You let the police know, 556 00:24:35,775 --> 00:24:37,544 you let them all know I wasn't running. 557 00:24:37,610 --> 00:24:38,945 [Tom] I know you weren't running. 558 00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:41,381 This was Simpson's mobile phone that I spoke to him with. 559 00:24:41,514 --> 00:24:44,351 [Rod] And that was during the Bronco chase after the murder. 560 00:24:44,417 --> 00:24:45,919 - The slow chase? - Yeah. 561 00:24:46,086 --> 00:24:47,530 - [Tom] You there? - [O.J.] Just let me get to 562 00:24:47,554 --> 00:24:48,931 - my house. - Okay. We're going to do that. 563 00:24:48,955 --> 00:24:50,499 [O.J.] I swear to you, I'll give you what... 564 00:24:50,523 --> 00:24:52,234 I'll give you me, I'll give you my whole body. 565 00:24:52,258 --> 00:24:53,736 [Tom] Just throw the gun out the window. 566 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,529 Let's look at this disguise kit, of significance in this kit, 567 00:24:56,596 --> 00:24:59,199 see, you got a little beard, and a mustache here. 568 00:24:59,265 --> 00:25:03,636 But what's significant is May the 27th, 1994. 569 00:25:03,737 --> 00:25:07,040 So this disguise kit was bought two weeks before the murders. 570 00:25:07,073 --> 00:25:08,575 Why would he have a disguise kit? 571 00:25:08,641 --> 00:25:09,943 This was found in the back seat. 572 00:25:10,076 --> 00:25:12,045 - Premeditation. Premeditation. - Yeah. 573 00:25:12,078 --> 00:25:14,214 Later is in pursuit. He's got a gun. 574 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,050 Here's the gun right here. A revolver. 575 00:25:17,083 --> 00:25:20,387 This becomes very important to my conversations with him, 576 00:25:20,453 --> 00:25:22,322 that isn't brought into evidence. 577 00:25:22,422 --> 00:25:24,424 Just have A.C. pull over and just toss that gun out 578 00:25:24,557 --> 00:25:26,569 and everything will be okay. It's gonna be better tomorrow. 579 00:25:26,593 --> 00:25:28,104 - [O.J.] He's takin' me home. - [Tom] I know he's 580 00:25:28,128 --> 00:25:31,164 taking you home, but will you please toss that gun? 581 00:25:31,264 --> 00:25:34,334 Here's a set of keys. Ten days before the murders, 582 00:25:34,434 --> 00:25:36,670 Nicole went to her mother and she says, Mom, 583 00:25:36,770 --> 00:25:39,105 I'm a little concerned because I think O.J., 584 00:25:39,239 --> 00:25:41,941 when he was in the last time, stole my keys. 585 00:25:42,075 --> 00:25:44,253 - There they are. He was right. - What were those keys to, 586 00:25:44,277 --> 00:25:45,945 other than her door? Was it to... 587 00:25:46,079 --> 00:25:48,415 [Tom] The gate and the front door. 588 00:25:48,481 --> 00:25:50,726 Why would he want to steal the keys? Perhaps because he wanted 589 00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:53,186 to go in there at his own choosing. 590 00:25:53,286 --> 00:25:54,688 There's actually two Broncos. 591 00:25:54,788 --> 00:25:57,090 The first Bronco was given to O.J. by Hertz. 592 00:25:57,157 --> 00:25:59,125 He used the Bronco the night of the murders. 593 00:25:59,259 --> 00:26:03,797 His good friend, A.C. Cowlings, also bought a 1994 white Bronco. 594 00:26:03,863 --> 00:26:05,503 [Rod] O.J. was supposed to turn himself in 595 00:26:05,632 --> 00:26:08,034 at Parker Center downtown. He never showed. 596 00:26:08,134 --> 00:26:10,036 So this goes out all over the news. 597 00:26:10,103 --> 00:26:12,439 People are actually running up to the car 598 00:26:12,505 --> 00:26:14,708 - and banging on the windows. - I saw that. 599 00:26:14,808 --> 00:26:16,509 We jump ahead to the trial. 600 00:26:16,643 --> 00:26:17,944 Where's all this stuff? 601 00:26:18,044 --> 00:26:19,312 [Rod] None of this was used. 602 00:26:19,379 --> 00:26:21,157 [Tom] No, this goes to intent to flee, obviously, 603 00:26:21,181 --> 00:26:22,615 that's the very least. 604 00:26:22,682 --> 00:26:24,360 [Rod] Okay. What do we have? We have two people murdered. 605 00:26:24,384 --> 00:26:27,153 We have three locations. We have a Bronco. 606 00:26:27,287 --> 00:26:29,889 We have Rockingham and we have Bundy Street. Right? 607 00:26:30,056 --> 00:26:31,891 And we know that there's a lot of blood. 608 00:26:32,058 --> 00:26:33,658 [Tom] There's a ton of blood in this car. 609 00:26:33,693 --> 00:26:35,271 [Rod] I wanted to do a little demonstration for you 610 00:26:35,295 --> 00:26:37,831 that I was planning on doing for the jurors 611 00:26:37,964 --> 00:26:40,333 and this is stage blood. And what I'm going to do 612 00:26:40,467 --> 00:26:43,336 is put some on my knuckle. O.J. Simpson was bleeding, 613 00:26:43,470 --> 00:26:45,372 - left middle finger. - Yeah. 614 00:26:45,505 --> 00:26:48,074 I could come up. Sure. And open the door like this. 615 00:26:48,174 --> 00:26:49,719 But then it would be awkward because you got to 616 00:26:49,743 --> 00:26:53,146 push the button. But then I go in like that and I'm bleeding 617 00:26:53,213 --> 00:26:56,249 and I pull it out. I open the door. 618 00:26:56,349 --> 00:27:00,186 Even TV viewers of that trial never knew that there was 619 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,523 enormous amounts of blood, that these these were patterns 620 00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:06,693 that were identifiable. Pretty hard to refute. 621 00:27:06,826 --> 00:27:08,528 Here's a photo taken at the time of 622 00:27:08,661 --> 00:27:10,764 the crime scene investigation. 623 00:27:10,864 --> 00:27:12,766 This is the door handle on this one. 624 00:27:12,866 --> 00:27:14,868 Here's the same door handle here. 625 00:27:14,934 --> 00:27:16,703 And notice where it's located. 626 00:27:16,836 --> 00:27:18,438 It's not where the thumb would be. 627 00:27:18,538 --> 00:27:20,373 It's not where the little finger would be. 628 00:27:20,507 --> 00:27:22,909 And we have a person bleeding from which finger? 629 00:27:23,043 --> 00:27:26,446 The left middle finger. And that's O.J. Simpson's blood. 630 00:27:26,546 --> 00:27:29,549 They did not put Rod Englert on the stand to testify 631 00:27:29,616 --> 00:27:32,786 to the months and months of work that he did. 632 00:27:32,886 --> 00:27:35,689 As to every bit of blood evidence in this case 633 00:27:35,755 --> 00:27:37,557 that the jury, I'm sure, 634 00:27:37,624 --> 00:27:40,527 regardless of how they thought about cops or anything else, 635 00:27:40,593 --> 00:27:42,128 I'm sure they wanted to hear it. 636 00:27:42,228 --> 00:27:43,930 Nobody else did that on either side. 637 00:27:44,064 --> 00:27:46,900 This is at the very end when O.J. Simpson gets out of 638 00:27:47,067 --> 00:27:50,637 the vehicle and leaves after parking it on Rockingham. 639 00:27:50,737 --> 00:27:52,572 - You didn't see that at trial. - Exactly. 640 00:27:52,706 --> 00:27:56,076 Somebody needed to tell that story because the story 641 00:27:56,209 --> 00:27:57,644 is pretty hard to refute. 642 00:27:57,744 --> 00:27:59,889 I've done something here that I think that will help the viewers 643 00:27:59,913 --> 00:28:03,750 to realize how much blood is actually in this vehicle 644 00:28:03,817 --> 00:28:06,252 and the size of the scenes. 645 00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:08,021 So this is not the same vehicle. 646 00:28:08,088 --> 00:28:10,056 That vehicle had leather seats. They were beige. 647 00:28:10,123 --> 00:28:12,258 This has seats that are cloth. 648 00:28:12,392 --> 00:28:15,762 But I just want to take the viewer through how much blood 649 00:28:15,895 --> 00:28:18,765 and what the patterns were inside of the vehicle. 650 00:28:18,898 --> 00:28:20,600 Well, who was bleeding? O.J. Simpson. 651 00:28:20,667 --> 00:28:22,135 Where was he bleeding? Left finger. 652 00:28:22,268 --> 00:28:25,605 And this is a transfer that appears to be something, 653 00:28:25,672 --> 00:28:31,277 could be the knife laying right under it is a long blond hair. 654 00:28:31,344 --> 00:28:32,946 And you're supposed to testify to that 655 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:34,781 and admit it in court, never happened. 656 00:28:40,387 --> 00:28:41,955 Smears of blood everywhere. 657 00:28:42,055 --> 00:28:45,158 [Tom] Crime scene photos of the bronco of Rockingham, of Bundy. 658 00:28:45,225 --> 00:28:48,061 Let's look at this disguise kit. A mustache here. 659 00:28:48,128 --> 00:28:49,529 Here's the gun right here. 660 00:28:49,662 --> 00:28:51,798 This goes to intent to flee, obviously. 661 00:28:51,865 --> 00:28:53,500 Well, who was bleeding? O.J. Simpson. 662 00:28:53,566 --> 00:28:55,568 Where was he bleeding? Left finger. 663 00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:58,538 How it lines up with not only opening the door on the outside, 664 00:28:58,672 --> 00:29:01,007 but just opening the door to get out on the inside. 665 00:29:01,041 --> 00:29:04,044 It's only his blood. It's in line with where he's bleeding. 666 00:29:04,177 --> 00:29:05,912 And then when did the crime occur? 667 00:29:06,012 --> 00:29:07,313 Nighttime. 668 00:29:07,380 --> 00:29:09,315 Well, what do you do on a car when you get in it 669 00:29:09,382 --> 00:29:10,993 to drive it at night, you turn on the lights. 670 00:29:11,017 --> 00:29:15,188 We actually Luminoled this and this is on the light switch, 671 00:29:15,321 --> 00:29:19,025 not only on the switch itself, but below the switch. 672 00:29:19,059 --> 00:29:22,062 And when the donor came back as to whose blood this was, 673 00:29:22,195 --> 00:29:25,532 it came back as human blood. And it came back as the donor 674 00:29:25,665 --> 00:29:28,034 being O.J. Simpson. Now, that's a lot of blood, 675 00:29:28,101 --> 00:29:31,037 but it even gets to be more. 676 00:29:31,071 --> 00:29:34,207 On the steering wheel at about 1:00, you will see 677 00:29:34,341 --> 00:29:39,612 a faint transfer of blood there down here at about 7:00. 678 00:29:39,713 --> 00:29:41,881 Well, what hand do you turn the lights on with? 679 00:29:41,948 --> 00:29:43,450 You turn it on with your left hand. 680 00:29:43,550 --> 00:29:46,720 Sure, you can reach over and turn it on with your right. 681 00:29:46,786 --> 00:29:50,690 But in this particular case, then you've got outside door, 682 00:29:50,757 --> 00:29:56,596 inside door, light switch, steering wheel. 1:00 and 7:00 683 00:29:56,730 --> 00:29:58,765 is O.J. Simpson's blood. 684 00:29:58,898 --> 00:30:02,102 Well, in getting in the vehicle, we have a swipe 685 00:30:02,235 --> 00:30:05,238 that goes from left, the door side, 686 00:30:05,372 --> 00:30:07,907 the driver's door side to the right. 687 00:30:08,041 --> 00:30:11,211 And that is Nicole Simpson's blood. 688 00:30:11,277 --> 00:30:12,746 See, there was never any theme. 689 00:30:12,879 --> 00:30:17,951 There was never a story that started at Bundy Street 690 00:30:18,084 --> 00:30:21,588 and then went into a Bronco. 691 00:30:21,654 --> 00:30:24,758 And that evidence then transferred some of it 692 00:30:24,824 --> 00:30:27,260 into a house and around a house. 693 00:30:27,394 --> 00:30:29,295 I mean, there's a ton of blood in here. 694 00:30:29,429 --> 00:30:31,231 Why it was never put into evidence. 695 00:30:31,297 --> 00:30:32,932 You got blood here that's visible, 696 00:30:32,999 --> 00:30:34,567 anjd you got blood that's not visible. 697 00:30:34,634 --> 00:30:36,269 [Rod] Right, in trial, only pieces were. 698 00:30:36,336 --> 00:30:37,776 Well, this blood here is this person. 699 00:30:37,837 --> 00:30:40,106 [Tom] Sitting on the jury, I want to know how, why. 700 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,676 [Rod] But there was never any explanation of theme 701 00:30:42,776 --> 00:30:44,944 that followed from beginning to end 702 00:30:45,078 --> 00:30:47,480 about these patterns, what the patterns were, 703 00:30:47,614 --> 00:30:50,784 what they mean, what they came from. 704 00:30:50,917 --> 00:30:54,087 We had two swipes of Nicole Brown Simpson's blood 705 00:30:54,154 --> 00:30:56,990 going from left to right near the door sill, 706 00:30:57,123 --> 00:30:59,626 as you can see here, was also a swipe 707 00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:01,594 of Nicole Brown Simpson's blood. 708 00:31:01,661 --> 00:31:03,830 What is that consistent with? That's consistent with 709 00:31:03,963 --> 00:31:07,467 having blood on a hand which we know he was bleeding 710 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,303 that swipes across or a sleeve 711 00:31:10,437 --> 00:31:12,839 in both of these, Nicole Simpson's blood. 712 00:31:12,972 --> 00:31:14,116 [Tom] You know, there is a story. 713 00:31:14,140 --> 00:31:15,584 What we needed was someone to tell it. 714 00:31:15,608 --> 00:31:16,952 - [Rod] I was ready. - [Tom] I know. 715 00:31:16,976 --> 00:31:19,079 [Rod] If I were his defense attorney, I'd be worried. 716 00:31:19,145 --> 00:31:21,848 I would be really worried. The evidence is overwhelming. 717 00:31:21,981 --> 00:31:24,217 It's enormous. It's big. This is a lot of blood. 718 00:31:24,317 --> 00:31:25,717 These aren't little specks of blood. 719 00:31:25,819 --> 00:31:28,088 These aren't projected stains. 720 00:31:28,154 --> 00:31:30,824 They are patterns, large patterns of blood 721 00:31:30,957 --> 00:31:34,861 to indicate that someone is bleeding extensively. 722 00:31:34,994 --> 00:31:38,531 On the console, it's as though O.J. Simpson is reaching around. 723 00:31:38,665 --> 00:31:40,667 And inside of that was a mixture 724 00:31:40,734 --> 00:31:45,238 of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman's blood. 725 00:31:45,338 --> 00:31:46,840 These are visible to the naked eye. 726 00:31:46,973 --> 00:31:51,578 Transfer stains from a hand that is wet with blood. 727 00:31:51,678 --> 00:31:53,346 [Tom] You look at the DNA in this case 728 00:31:53,413 --> 00:31:55,115 and the fact there's nothing exculpatory, 729 00:31:55,181 --> 00:31:57,650 never have too much evidence in a murder case. 730 00:31:57,717 --> 00:32:00,186 Like I have too much, they'll never believe it. 731 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,721 Well, that was this case. 732 00:32:01,855 --> 00:32:03,857 You had a ton of evidence that was never brought. 733 00:32:03,923 --> 00:32:06,893 [Rod] Just another transfer. And this is a transfer 734 00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:10,864 that appears to be something that is it could be the knife. 735 00:32:11,064 --> 00:32:13,500 You'll notice here, Tom. Notice at the edge of it. 736 00:32:13,566 --> 00:32:17,069 It's well-defined, laying right under it in the seat 737 00:32:17,070 --> 00:32:20,206 is a long, blond hair. 738 00:32:20,273 --> 00:32:23,443 And remember I told you what I picked off 39 hairs 739 00:32:23,543 --> 00:32:26,212 from Goldman's shirt after her throat had been cut. 740 00:32:26,346 --> 00:32:31,117 Nicole's throat was cut. The attacker went back to Goldman, 741 00:32:31,217 --> 00:32:34,087 cut his throat, and all those hairs came off 742 00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:37,357 because there's close contact and on to Goldman's shirt. 743 00:32:37,424 --> 00:32:39,526 [Tom] Simpson never even knew Ron Goldman. 744 00:32:39,592 --> 00:32:42,762 So what would Ron Goldman's blood be doing in Simpson's car? 745 00:32:42,896 --> 00:32:44,431 Never could put those two together. 746 00:32:44,564 --> 00:32:48,902 In the seat, you have Nicole Brown Simpson's blood 747 00:32:49,102 --> 00:32:52,205 in the form of what appears to be a knife transfer. 748 00:32:52,272 --> 00:32:55,742 It's a very well-defined line that's different than what 749 00:32:55,875 --> 00:32:57,811 cloth would do or a finger would do. 750 00:32:57,911 --> 00:33:01,481 And then below that is a long blond hair. 751 00:33:01,581 --> 00:33:03,416 See the enormity of that evidence? 752 00:33:03,550 --> 00:33:05,118 And you're supposed to testify to that 753 00:33:05,251 --> 00:33:07,253 and admit it in court and it never happened. 754 00:33:07,387 --> 00:33:09,723 Any piece of evidence, including the hair, 755 00:33:09,789 --> 00:33:12,926 the strand of hair, was found by 756 00:33:13,059 --> 00:33:15,962 one of the prosecution's criminalists, Rod Englert. 757 00:33:16,096 --> 00:33:17,797 In order to get that into evidence, 758 00:33:17,931 --> 00:33:21,101 something that the jury can look at and consider, 759 00:33:21,234 --> 00:33:23,503 it has to be admitted. It was never admitted 760 00:33:23,603 --> 00:33:25,972 because if it were admitted, it would have been admitted 761 00:33:26,106 --> 00:33:29,642 through Rod Englert. That didn't happen. 762 00:33:29,776 --> 00:33:31,420 And the only reason that wouldn't have happened 763 00:33:31,444 --> 00:33:33,446 is because the prosecution wouldn't have wanted it, 764 00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:35,081 well, why don't they want it? 765 00:33:35,115 --> 00:33:37,259 Well, they didn't want a lot of evidence submitted in this case. 766 00:33:37,283 --> 00:33:39,753 That's why we're here today doing this thing. 767 00:33:39,819 --> 00:33:41,988 And this was one of them because a cop 768 00:33:42,122 --> 00:33:44,290 was delivering the evidence, cops are on trial 769 00:33:44,357 --> 00:33:47,694 as far as the jury is concerned. And Rod is one of them. 770 00:33:47,794 --> 00:33:49,796 Okay, Rod, why don't you to step back a second. 771 00:33:49,863 --> 00:33:52,966 I want to show you a little fun fact here with it we found. 772 00:33:53,099 --> 00:33:55,168 And he pulls the seat out and there's a little 773 00:33:55,301 --> 00:33:58,304 illumination bulb rolling around underneath 774 00:33:58,438 --> 00:34:00,016 - when you took the seat out. - I remember that. 775 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,709 Plastic cover over the illumination bulb was missing. 776 00:34:02,809 --> 00:34:06,112 And so is the bulb, so I look up, this bulb fits 777 00:34:06,179 --> 00:34:08,548 at the top of the Bronco. But I'm thinking back 778 00:34:08,648 --> 00:34:11,051 to when I was a young cop, the first thing we did 779 00:34:11,151 --> 00:34:13,820 at nightwatch, we'd reach up and we grab that bulb, 780 00:34:13,953 --> 00:34:16,322 we'd pull it out. Why would you remove the bulb? 781 00:34:16,456 --> 00:34:18,134 For the same reason we did. We didn't want... 782 00:34:18,158 --> 00:34:19,659 He didn't want to be illuminated. 783 00:34:19,793 --> 00:34:21,361 This to me, again, goes to intent. 784 00:34:21,494 --> 00:34:25,198 It's very significant. We never saw it in trial. 785 00:34:29,069 --> 00:34:31,304 [Rod] Okay, Tom, now let's talk about the socks. 786 00:34:31,371 --> 00:34:36,176 [Tom] More accusations of cops planting blood right. 787 00:34:36,309 --> 00:34:37,711 [Rod] Tell me about that. 788 00:34:37,844 --> 00:34:41,181 [Tom] Well, the socks Simpson's house belonging to Simpson 789 00:34:41,247 --> 00:34:43,350 - were recovered in his bedroom. - Right. 790 00:34:49,723 --> 00:34:51,825 Tom Lange picked them up at the foot of the bed 791 00:34:51,891 --> 00:34:54,861 and those socks went into evidence. 792 00:34:54,994 --> 00:34:57,864 [Tom] More accusations of cops planting blood. 793 00:34:57,997 --> 00:35:00,567 You get involved in this whole thing as a blood expert, 794 00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:02,068 blood spatter expert. 795 00:35:04,037 --> 00:35:05,839 A shotgun blast was down through the floor 796 00:35:05,905 --> 00:35:07,265 that accounted for the third shell. 797 00:35:07,340 --> 00:35:10,377 Another third was here. Here's your knife. 798 00:35:10,510 --> 00:35:13,880 And then the person rolls him over on his back. 799 00:35:13,947 --> 00:35:19,219 We find on the socks that the victim, Nicole Simpson's blood 800 00:35:19,352 --> 00:35:22,188 is on these socks, on O.J. socks in his bedroom. 801 00:35:22,255 --> 00:35:25,892 We get accused of planting that blood on those socks. 802 00:35:26,059 --> 00:35:28,895 Ron and Nicole, you wouldn't even know there's any victims 803 00:35:29,062 --> 00:35:30,730 when all this B.S. starts. 804 00:35:30,864 --> 00:35:32,274 They're talking about everything else, 805 00:35:32,298 --> 00:35:34,276 everything around the periphery of this entire case 806 00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:37,203 except the victims. Nobody cares about that. 807 00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:40,707 One of the defense attorneys, Alan Dershowitz, 808 00:35:40,774 --> 00:35:42,742 You would have voted to acquit. 809 00:35:42,876 --> 00:35:45,912 And he says officer, he calls him Officer Vannatter. 810 00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:48,114 It was my late partner, my late homicide partner 811 00:35:48,248 --> 00:35:50,383 planted the victim's blood on Simpson's socks 812 00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:52,986 and he very demonstrably puts his hands up 813 00:35:53,086 --> 00:35:55,088 and says he's holding the sock here 814 00:35:55,155 --> 00:35:56,656 and there's a vial of blood here. 815 00:35:56,756 --> 00:36:00,760 And Vannatter poured the blood on the sock. 816 00:36:00,894 --> 00:36:05,598 Anything to throw doubt within a case. 817 00:36:05,665 --> 00:36:07,767 And this is a very, very good example. 818 00:36:07,901 --> 00:36:10,070 If this were true, number one, why didn't we see this 819 00:36:10,136 --> 00:36:12,272 during the trial? And quite frankly, 820 00:36:12,405 --> 00:36:15,175 waited until after my partner died? 821 00:36:15,275 --> 00:36:19,079 So we have the defense attorney saying my partner poured blood, 822 00:36:19,145 --> 00:36:21,614 planting it. Their own investigator says 823 00:36:21,748 --> 00:36:24,451 the lab planted it, well, they can't get their lies straight. 824 00:36:24,584 --> 00:36:28,188 Why wasn't this challenged in rebuttal during the trial? 825 00:36:28,288 --> 00:36:31,858 People can lie. Look at me, Tom. 826 00:36:31,958 --> 00:36:35,161 People can lie, but the evidence never lies. 827 00:36:35,295 --> 00:36:39,599 Blood was poured onto the socks and the blood was planted 828 00:36:39,666 --> 00:36:42,102 - on the socks by the cops. - Well, that's ridiculous. 829 00:36:42,168 --> 00:36:44,104 It's common sense. If you pour it, 830 00:36:44,170 --> 00:36:47,474 that's a different pattern than projected stains. 831 00:36:47,607 --> 00:36:50,610 The blood pattern on the socks was projected stain, 832 00:36:50,677 --> 00:36:53,813 impact into blood that projected the blood out. 833 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,649 This random distribution of large and small drops 834 00:36:56,716 --> 00:37:00,220 that were on both socks. Just like go in your kitchen, 835 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,022 get some water and pour it on a cloth. 836 00:37:02,155 --> 00:37:04,491 Everybody knows that's not the same pattern. 837 00:37:04,557 --> 00:37:06,025 And then you have to turn it over. 838 00:37:06,026 --> 00:37:07,894 You have to do it to this side. 839 00:37:08,028 --> 00:37:10,030 It doesn't create that type of pattern. 840 00:37:10,063 --> 00:37:11,564 If I'm in the jury, I want to know 841 00:37:11,664 --> 00:37:13,333 how the blood got on the socks. 842 00:37:13,466 --> 00:37:16,169 [ t 843 00:37:16,302 --> 00:37:17,737 I'm uncertain. 844 00:37:17,837 --> 00:37:20,540 Here you have transfer pattern, transfer pattern on the toes 845 00:37:20,674 --> 00:37:25,478 and then projective stains on 360 degrees round those socks. 846 00:37:25,545 --> 00:37:27,265 We looked at these socks together, remember? 847 00:37:27,347 --> 00:37:31,051 I flew to DOJ. You met me there at Department of Justice 848 00:37:31,151 --> 00:37:33,720 in Sacramento. Now, they hadn't been analyzed yet 849 00:37:33,853 --> 00:37:36,656 and we counted and looking with magnification, 850 00:37:36,723 --> 00:37:41,661 we've counted 29 projected stains right here, 851 00:37:41,728 --> 00:37:45,265 meaning little dots, the same that are on Ron Goldman's boots. 852 00:37:45,365 --> 00:37:49,102 And then 19 on this particular sock, another sock. 853 00:37:49,202 --> 00:37:51,237 Now, we don't know which one was left or worn left 854 00:37:51,371 --> 00:37:54,240 or which one was right. On the toe of both of the socks 855 00:37:54,374 --> 00:37:57,711 and on the top of one of them was a different type of stain. 856 00:37:57,777 --> 00:38:01,047 It wasn't projected stains, it was a transfer stain. 857 00:38:01,181 --> 00:38:03,216 Now transfer means if I've got blood on my hand, 858 00:38:03,283 --> 00:38:05,719 give me your hand and I transfer it to your jacket 859 00:38:05,852 --> 00:38:09,089 and I hit some blood and projects, 860 00:38:09,222 --> 00:38:10,822 that creates a little random distribution 861 00:38:10,890 --> 00:38:12,292 of large and small drops. Right? 862 00:38:12,392 --> 00:38:13,793 Now, I want to show you something. 863 00:38:13,893 --> 00:38:17,630 I've got a cut, and I reach down and I pull the sock down. 864 00:38:17,731 --> 00:38:22,402 A neighbor told us that he saw O.J. peeking in Nicole's window. 865 00:38:22,469 --> 00:38:26,039 Coincidentally, the same type of knit cap at the crime scene. 866 00:38:26,072 --> 00:38:28,384 I believe that she was dating guy, that his name was Keith. 867 00:38:28,408 --> 00:38:31,277 The time that I think that was who O.J. was spying on. 868 00:38:36,883 --> 00:38:39,152 And we have a person bleeding from which finger? 869 00:38:39,285 --> 00:38:42,722 The left finger. Inside of that was a mixture of 870 00:38:42,822 --> 00:38:46,459 Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman's blood. 871 00:38:46,526 --> 00:38:50,830 We get accused of planning that blood on those socks. 872 00:38:50,964 --> 00:38:54,734 I've got a cut and I reach down and I pull the sock down. 873 00:38:54,834 --> 00:38:56,069 I've got blood on my hands. 874 00:38:56,169 --> 00:38:57,780 We know he's bleeding from the middle finger. 875 00:38:57,804 --> 00:38:59,673 We know that that blood is fresh. 876 00:38:59,806 --> 00:39:01,341 And this is where the transfer occurs 877 00:39:01,474 --> 00:39:04,077 when I pull the socks down. There is your transfer. 878 00:39:04,177 --> 00:39:07,514 That is a pattern that's different from the pattern 879 00:39:07,580 --> 00:39:13,386 on both socks, 360 degrees around the ankles, 880 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,689 but not where my pants are covering 881 00:39:15,755 --> 00:39:18,191 and not where my shoes are being worn. 882 00:39:18,324 --> 00:39:20,660 And then you pull it off. You usually have to grab the toe 883 00:39:20,727 --> 00:39:24,831 or it's consistent with grabbing the toe on both of these socks. 884 00:39:24,898 --> 00:39:27,500 O.J. Simpson's blood on the toes. 885 00:39:27,567 --> 00:39:29,669 O.J. Simpson's blood at the top. 886 00:39:29,736 --> 00:39:33,406 And Nicole Brown Simpson, 360 degrees of projected stains 887 00:39:33,540 --> 00:39:38,244 from what the demonstration is fighting, stomping, projecting 888 00:39:38,378 --> 00:39:41,715 stains, out to the side. You cannot pour blood 889 00:39:41,848 --> 00:39:44,784 onto these socks to create those kind of patterns. 890 00:39:44,884 --> 00:39:47,196 It's pretty powerful evidence. Remember, this is interesting. 891 00:39:47,220 --> 00:39:50,557 When we was there at the lab, you call me five days later 892 00:39:50,623 --> 00:39:54,060 and you said, go to a secure phone and left my office. 893 00:39:54,094 --> 00:39:56,096 So I went to a phone booth. It was raining. 894 00:39:56,229 --> 00:39:58,064 I'll never forget the words that you told me, 895 00:39:58,131 --> 00:39:59,742 you said, want to know whose blood this is? 896 00:39:59,766 --> 00:40:01,446 She said there's only five people that know 897 00:40:01,534 --> 00:40:04,237 and the two of us are two of the five. 898 00:40:04,371 --> 00:40:08,775 Nicole Brown Simpson blood and Simpson's blood. 899 00:40:08,908 --> 00:40:10,610 And then there was another accusation 900 00:40:10,744 --> 00:40:12,645 that the lab rehydrated these little stains 901 00:40:12,746 --> 00:40:14,581 to make it go through to the other side, 902 00:40:14,647 --> 00:40:16,216 meaning nobody could be wearing them. 903 00:40:16,282 --> 00:40:17,450 Do you know what that means? 904 00:40:17,584 --> 00:40:19,252 That means there was no foot in that sock. 905 00:40:19,386 --> 00:40:21,554 Can you really think of this? Just think that 906 00:40:21,621 --> 00:40:23,590 someone with a Q-Tip is going to rehydrate blood 907 00:40:23,656 --> 00:40:27,127 and 29 times... 908 00:40:27,260 --> 00:40:30,096 to make it go through the other side that... that was, 909 00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:34,501 that was not true. And that was actually testified to in trial. 910 00:40:34,601 --> 00:40:36,803 Tom, let me just show you how ridiculous this is, 911 00:40:36,936 --> 00:40:40,306 this false accusation, 912 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,610 the blood pouring that allegedly has occurred 913 00:40:43,677 --> 00:40:46,012 is when I pour blood into blood 914 00:40:46,112 --> 00:40:47,480 and pour it on the socks. 915 00:40:47,614 --> 00:40:50,483 You're not going to get those individual stains. 916 00:40:50,617 --> 00:40:52,337 It just isn't going to happen. Look at that. 917 00:40:52,419 --> 00:40:53,653 [Tom] It's solid. 918 00:40:53,787 --> 00:40:55,297 [Rod] And it doesn't go around to the other side. 919 00:40:55,321 --> 00:40:57,524 This is a transfer. Now, I've got blood on there 920 00:40:57,624 --> 00:40:59,526 and that's a transfer. And that's what we have 921 00:40:59,626 --> 00:41:01,628 at the top that we couldn't see with the naked eye. 922 00:41:01,761 --> 00:41:03,172 - [Tom] Yeah. - [Rod] Not only do we have 923 00:41:03,196 --> 00:41:06,966 a transfer there, but we have a transfer here 924 00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:10,637 and we have a transfer here on these socks. 925 00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:13,073 And this tells a story. It's that simple. 926 00:41:13,139 --> 00:41:15,308 And so in going and meeting with the criminalist, 927 00:41:15,375 --> 00:41:18,378 the Department of Justice and I contacted you later 928 00:41:18,478 --> 00:41:20,980 as to what the results were. And I've got a little video here 929 00:41:21,081 --> 00:41:23,450 that he sent to us. You remember this? 930 00:41:23,516 --> 00:41:26,119 It's called an infrared examination. 931 00:41:26,186 --> 00:41:30,223 That is the camera that is able to focus and be able to see 932 00:41:30,323 --> 00:41:32,092 what the eye cannot see. 933 00:41:32,158 --> 00:41:34,627 You can see the different stains. They were there. 934 00:41:34,694 --> 00:41:37,330 And I want you to see this. This is the top of the sock. 935 00:41:37,397 --> 00:41:38,998 [Tom] That is O.J. Simpson's sock. 936 00:41:39,132 --> 00:41:40,810 [Rod] That is O.J. Simpson's socks found at 937 00:41:40,834 --> 00:41:43,203 the foot of the bed that you found. 938 00:41:43,336 --> 00:41:46,639 This is a transfer stain that we're looking at here. 939 00:41:46,706 --> 00:41:48,875 And this is sock number 42A. 940 00:41:49,009 --> 00:41:52,812 But now the criminalist is going to go down this knee high sock 941 00:41:52,879 --> 00:41:56,249 and you're going to start seeing those projected stains. 942 00:41:56,349 --> 00:41:59,519 And mind you, there's like 19 on one and 29 on the other. 943 00:41:59,652 --> 00:42:02,555 They start showing up and look where they're showing up. 944 00:42:02,689 --> 00:42:04,257 And look, you're coming up to the heel. 945 00:42:04,357 --> 00:42:05,492 [Tom] Yeah. 946 00:42:05,558 --> 00:42:07,238 [Rod] And also on the sock was O.J. Simpson 947 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,195 at the transfer stain, the upper one. 948 00:42:09,329 --> 00:42:12,432 And look at the stain. These are projected stains. 949 00:42:12,532 --> 00:42:14,434 And there's little ones. There's big ones. 950 00:42:14,534 --> 00:42:19,873 That's a random distribution of large and small drops from 951 00:42:19,939 --> 00:42:21,274 fighting. 952 00:42:21,374 --> 00:42:24,678 Here we start to see with infrared photography and video 953 00:42:24,744 --> 00:42:29,082 projected stains that comes back to the blood of who? 954 00:42:29,215 --> 00:42:30,559 - [Tom] Nicole Simpson. - [Rod] Because you're the one 955 00:42:30,583 --> 00:42:32,886 who told me that when you had to go to a phone booth 956 00:42:32,952 --> 00:42:35,088 - and call you. - These are the ones you counted. 957 00:42:35,121 --> 00:42:36,723 [Rod] That's right. 958 00:42:36,856 --> 00:42:38,692 So there's a lot of them all around the socks. 959 00:42:38,758 --> 00:42:41,127 - [Tom] 360 degrees. - [Rod] 360 degrees. 960 00:42:41,227 --> 00:42:43,563 And there's a photograph of Ron Goldman's boots. 961 00:42:43,630 --> 00:42:45,097 You know what's on the side of his boots? 962 00:42:45,098 --> 00:42:46,533 Same type of projected stains. 963 00:42:46,599 --> 00:42:49,101 This is like a transfer stain at the toe. 964 00:42:49,102 --> 00:42:51,571 - And guess who's blood that was? - [Tom] Simpson's. 965 00:42:51,638 --> 00:42:52,872 [Rod] That's Simpson's blood. 966 00:42:52,939 --> 00:42:54,574 At the top and at the toe. 967 00:42:54,708 --> 00:42:56,710 And the same on the other at the toe. 968 00:42:56,776 --> 00:42:59,612 [Tom] You've got Simpson's blood, the suspect on the toe 969 00:42:59,746 --> 00:43:01,815 and at the top of the sock. 970 00:43:01,915 --> 00:43:05,285 You indicated how that got there. And in the center, 971 00:43:05,418 --> 00:43:07,754 - you got projected blood. - Exactly. 972 00:43:07,821 --> 00:43:10,056 From the victim. And juror number seven, 973 00:43:10,090 --> 00:43:13,059 she never believed he was guilty. 974 00:43:13,093 --> 00:43:15,462 Is this before she heard the evidence, apparently. 975 00:43:15,595 --> 00:43:18,598 Thought that the physical abuse side of the case 976 00:43:18,665 --> 00:43:23,503 was, quote, belongs somewhere down the hall in another court. 977 00:43:23,603 --> 00:43:26,239 This was a murder trial. The defense shows 978 00:43:26,306 --> 00:43:29,275 without any doubt that that's exactly what it was. 979 00:43:29,409 --> 00:43:32,645 Yet she associated this apparently with some kind of, 980 00:43:32,779 --> 00:43:36,449 uh, uh, abuse to the victim. 981 00:43:36,516 --> 00:43:38,918 Yeah, it was plenty of abuse, but I guess it just didn't 982 00:43:38,985 --> 00:43:41,788 sink in that way with her. 983 00:43:41,921 --> 00:43:43,165 [911 operator] Attention all units, 984 00:43:43,189 --> 00:43:44,090 domestic violence at 30... correction, 985 00:43:44,157 --> 00:43:45,925 325 south crescent ring way, 986 00:43:45,992 --> 00:43:48,628 advise, the suspect has now entered... 987 00:43:48,695 --> 00:43:52,432 [Nicole] O.J., the kids are sleeping. 988 00:43:52,499 --> 00:43:54,768 [911 operator] 4-2-2-1 are the 825, children involved. 989 00:43:54,834 --> 00:43:56,345 [O.J.] You didn't give a shit about the kids 990 00:43:56,369 --> 00:43:57,780 when they were fucking sitting in the living room. 991 00:43:57,804 --> 00:43:58,605 They were here. 992 00:43:58,672 --> 00:44:01,875 You give my kids shit? 993 00:44:02,042 --> 00:44:05,612 Oh, it's different now... 994 00:44:07,313 --> 00:44:08,633 [Bill] My partner, Detective Lange 995 00:44:08,682 --> 00:44:12,052 enter interview room in Parker Center. 996 00:44:12,152 --> 00:44:17,490 Tand the time is 13:35 hours. 997 00:44:17,557 --> 00:44:19,058 And we're here with O.J. Simpson, 998 00:44:19,059 --> 00:44:22,162 i 999 00:44:22,228 --> 00:44:24,898 And what is your birthdate? 1000 00:44:25,065 --> 00:44:26,666 [O.J.] July 9, 1947. 1001 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,836 [Tom] Okay, prior to us talking to you as we agreed 1002 00:44:29,903 --> 00:44:31,671 with your attorney, I'm gonna give you... 1003 00:44:31,805 --> 00:44:36,076 Is my hair okay? Is there. 1004 00:44:36,176 --> 00:44:38,457 Every time I meet someone and they find out that I'm Kato, 1005 00:44:38,511 --> 00:44:41,081 the witness in the trial, they all want to be a part of it. 1006 00:44:41,181 --> 00:44:43,082 They all have a story, and it's like, why do you 1007 00:44:43,083 --> 00:44:44,327 want to be associated with that? 1008 00:44:44,351 --> 00:44:45,861 I don't want to be associated with that. 1009 00:44:45,885 --> 00:44:47,663 But they are coming up with these different theories. 1010 00:44:47,687 --> 00:44:50,357 You know, if I'm a detective. I'm going, geez, 1011 00:44:50,490 --> 00:44:53,093 Tom, you take this call. It's the psychic. 1012 00:44:53,193 --> 00:44:56,096 I'll never forget when detective Vannatter said to me, 1013 00:44:56,196 --> 00:44:58,098 It's just there in my brain, 1014 00:44:58,198 --> 00:45:00,200 this is a two minute Columbo episode 1015 00:45:00,266 --> 00:45:01,835 because we have so much evidence. 1016 00:45:01,901 --> 00:45:03,770 And I was like, Oh, wow. 1017 00:45:03,870 --> 00:45:05,705 All of little pointed in one direction. 1018 00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:08,079 [Reporter] Mark asked Kato if he thought his new pal O.J. 1019 00:45:08,174 --> 00:45:10,176 could help his struggling acting career. 1020 00:45:10,243 --> 00:45:12,445 I don't think we're going for the same parts, right. 1021 00:45:12,545 --> 00:45:15,048 I'm going to L.A. to be an actor and things are going okay. 1022 00:45:15,081 --> 00:45:17,550 And I was in a few commercials. I was doing my things. 1023 00:45:17,617 --> 00:45:20,053 I kept going, Hey, I could be Brad Pitt. 1024 00:45:20,186 --> 00:45:22,222 Oh, okay, maybe Armpit. His brother. 1025 00:45:22,288 --> 00:45:24,224 - What's your name? - Erin. 1026 00:45:24,290 --> 00:45:26,393 [Man] Any book deals or anything happening for you? 1027 00:45:26,526 --> 00:45:27,894 Coloring book, maybe one day. 1028 00:45:27,961 --> 00:45:29,321 I'll do a coloring book. We'll see. 1029 00:45:29,396 --> 00:45:30,563 Do you have a crayon? 1030 00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:32,041 You do. You do carry a crayon, don't you? 1031 00:45:32,065 --> 00:45:33,199 I noticed that about you. 1032 00:45:33,266 --> 00:45:35,068 Everything has a blueprint in your life, 1033 00:45:35,135 --> 00:45:36,403 and for whatever reason, 1034 00:45:36,469 --> 00:45:38,405 mine was to be a witness in this trial. 1035 00:45:38,538 --> 00:45:40,707 In 1994, my friend produced a movie. 1036 00:45:40,774 --> 00:45:42,718 Believe it or not, I had the script three months earlier 1037 00:45:42,742 --> 00:45:46,279 to Dumb and Dumber, and that was the film that I was tested for. 1038 00:45:46,413 --> 00:45:48,391 And later in life I got to meet the Farrelly brothers 1039 00:45:48,415 --> 00:45:50,583 who directed that film. And I'm going, 1040 00:45:50,717 --> 00:45:52,285 You guys got to hear this story. 1041 00:45:52,419 --> 00:45:54,499 [Tom] You were hanging around O.J. for quite a while, 1042 00:45:54,554 --> 00:45:56,589 and you probably get opinions. 1043 00:45:56,656 --> 00:45:59,092 He was a wealthy guy. I wasn't. So it was sort of like 1044 00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:02,028 he was tax bracket was Danish, I was donuts. 1045 00:46:02,095 --> 00:46:07,033 So I converted that way. He loved having people 1046 00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:08,601 make sure they knew it was him. 1047 00:46:08,668 --> 00:46:13,740 A neighbor told us that he saw O.J. peeking in Nicole's window 1048 00:46:13,807 --> 00:46:17,310 and he was wearing a dark colored knit cap. 1049 00:46:17,444 --> 00:46:21,114 Coincidentally, the same type of knit cap at the crime scene. 1050 00:46:21,181 --> 00:46:22,591 [Kato] I Believe that she was dating a guy, 1051 00:46:22,615 --> 00:46:24,784 that his name was Keith at the time that I think 1052 00:46:24,918 --> 00:46:26,453 that was who O.J. was spying on. 1053 00:46:26,586 --> 00:46:28,931 [Tom] There's a lot of things in this case that weren't brought 1054 00:46:28,955 --> 00:46:30,757 as evidence that should have been brought. 1055 00:46:30,824 --> 00:46:33,126 Marcia Clark's doing her job. The only thing was 1056 00:46:33,259 --> 00:46:35,104 I don't know why she called me a hostile witness. 1057 00:46:35,128 --> 00:46:38,198 Basically what she's saying is whatever Kato says, 1058 00:46:38,298 --> 00:46:39,966 it really means nothing. 1059 00:46:40,066 --> 00:46:44,304 Kato was Kato and Kato didn't give up a lot during that trial. 1060 00:46:44,371 --> 00:46:46,373 Probably just because of that fact, 1061 00:46:46,473 --> 00:46:48,317 you're not going to cooperate. I wouldn't either. 1062 00:46:48,341 --> 00:46:50,143 I think he was as forthright as he could be, 1063 00:46:50,276 --> 00:46:51,978 and there's no reason for him not to be. 1064 00:46:52,078 --> 00:46:54,447 Everybody's says and even the media says, you know, 1065 00:46:54,514 --> 00:46:58,084 then the cops get involved. And the biggest problem they had 1066 00:46:58,151 --> 00:47:00,286 is they concentrated on O.J. Simpson. 1067 00:47:00,353 --> 00:47:02,122 They never looked at another person. 1068 00:47:02,188 --> 00:47:04,024 That's all B.S. That's not true. 1069 00:47:04,157 --> 00:47:05,717 There's other people that were suspects. 1070 00:47:05,792 --> 00:47:07,627 We actually have what we call a clue file. 1071 00:47:07,694 --> 00:47:10,330 And among those were 512 of these things 1072 00:47:10,463 --> 00:47:12,165 that we investigated. And among them 1073 00:47:12,298 --> 00:47:14,567 were about 50 potential suspects. 1074 00:47:14,668 --> 00:47:16,670 - [Kato] 150? - [Tom] Fifty, 5-0 1075 00:47:16,803 --> 00:47:18,304 potential suspects. 1076 00:47:18,371 --> 00:47:21,374 We spent months on other possible suspects in this case. 1077 00:47:21,508 --> 00:47:24,044 It's all documented. It was all turned over. 1078 00:47:24,077 --> 00:47:27,247 Go down here to, oh, look at this, 317, what does that say? 1079 00:47:27,347 --> 00:47:30,550 [Kato] Kato killed the Nicole because she broke up with Kato. 1080 00:47:30,684 --> 00:47:33,253 Suggest putting Kato on the lie detector. 1081 00:47:33,353 --> 00:47:34,387 Well, it's not me. 1082 00:47:34,521 --> 00:47:36,389 - You know what the good news is? - What? 1083 00:47:36,523 --> 00:47:37,857 - You're a three. - I'm a three. 1084 00:47:37,924 --> 00:47:41,695 That's a Category three, that's always good to know. 1085 00:47:41,761 --> 00:47:44,397 On top of her head, she also has a stab wound. 1086 00:47:44,531 --> 00:47:47,400 She has contusions. There's another wound on her 1087 00:47:47,534 --> 00:47:49,069 that hasn't happened yet. 1088 00:47:55,642 --> 00:47:57,444 O.J. Simpson's blood on the toes. 1089 00:47:57,510 --> 00:48:00,180 [Kato] His name was Keith. That was who O.J. was spying on. 1090 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,425 There's a lot of things in this case that weren't brought 1091 00:48:02,449 --> 00:48:04,284 as evidence. This was one of them. 1092 00:48:04,417 --> 00:48:07,019 Kato, suggest putting Kato and the lie detector. 1093 00:48:07,020 --> 00:48:09,189 Well, it's not me. 1094 00:48:09,289 --> 00:48:12,792 They're interviewing over 50 suspects, 5-0, and to know 1095 00:48:12,859 --> 00:48:15,095 they collected so much evidence that never was used, 1096 00:48:15,161 --> 00:48:18,264 - I'd be so pissed off. - I told you we had this audio, 1097 00:48:18,331 --> 00:48:19,691 I wanna play that for you in a bit. 1098 00:48:19,766 --> 00:48:21,566 But looking around here at all these pictures, 1099 00:48:21,634 --> 00:48:23,446 what does that look like? This picture right here? 1100 00:48:23,470 --> 00:48:25,772 That's the old Kato room right there. It's clean. 1101 00:48:25,839 --> 00:48:27,474 It was 5:00 or so in the morning, 1102 00:48:27,540 --> 00:48:29,876 there's a knock at my door, and all I saw to the door 1103 00:48:30,043 --> 00:48:32,212 were four guys. And I just let you in. 1104 00:48:32,312 --> 00:48:34,447 I'm in a daze at that time, I'm always in a daze 1105 00:48:34,514 --> 00:48:36,049 but I'm in a daze because of sleep. 1106 00:48:36,116 --> 00:48:38,818 Picture this though, really, four guys at 5:00 a.m. 1107 00:48:38,885 --> 00:48:40,687 coming to your door and you don't even ask 1108 00:48:40,820 --> 00:48:43,156 if they're really police and you say, Come on in. 1109 00:48:43,289 --> 00:48:45,368 He said to me, he said, What did you wear last night? 1110 00:48:45,392 --> 00:48:47,660 And I said, Oh, it's on that chair. 1111 00:48:47,727 --> 00:48:50,296 Now, you have to understand, I don't know what's going on. 1112 00:48:50,363 --> 00:48:52,866 Then I start thinking, something happened to O.J. 1113 00:48:53,066 --> 00:48:54,234 is there plane crash? 1114 00:48:54,334 --> 00:48:56,670 Ten hours earlier? Were you lying in bed? 1115 00:48:56,803 --> 00:48:59,072 Something happened. I was on the phone. 1116 00:48:59,172 --> 00:49:02,175 I heard a noise, and a picture moved, 1117 00:49:02,242 --> 00:49:03,743 and I said, did we have an earthquake? 1118 00:49:03,843 --> 00:49:05,345 - To her on the phone? - Yeah. 1119 00:49:05,478 --> 00:49:07,047 Sort of a... like, what was that? 1120 00:49:07,180 --> 00:49:09,015 What's behind your bed wall, on the outside? 1121 00:49:09,082 --> 00:49:11,084 There's an air conditioner. And that's about it. 1122 00:49:11,184 --> 00:49:13,424 Does that look like the air conditioning unit behind you? 1123 00:49:13,486 --> 00:49:15,755 Yeah. Someone said, you hear anything unusual last night? 1124 00:49:15,855 --> 00:49:17,833 I said, I don't know if this is an important thing, 1125 00:49:17,857 --> 00:49:19,835 but my picture moved. But it might not be anything. 1126 00:49:19,859 --> 00:49:21,094 It happened behind this wall. 1127 00:49:21,194 --> 00:49:22,672 [Tom] Yeah, that was kind of important 1128 00:49:22,696 --> 00:49:24,864 because right down here was the glove, right? 1129 00:49:25,031 --> 00:49:27,009 - So it kind of was important. - Yeah, it was important. 1130 00:49:27,033 --> 00:49:29,836 [Kato] Everybody remembers the bloody glove, everybody. 1131 00:49:29,903 --> 00:49:32,372 [Tom] And so I get back to this audio I was telling you about. 1132 00:49:32,505 --> 00:49:35,942 I want to get a feeling for what you think about his responses. 1133 00:49:36,042 --> 00:49:38,111 This isn't interrogation. If the cops are going to 1134 00:49:38,211 --> 00:49:40,580 interrogate somebody, they usually confront them. 1135 00:49:40,714 --> 00:49:43,750 You don't do that with someone like this, who's a sociopath. 1136 00:49:43,883 --> 00:49:45,618 Number two, probably kick your ass anyway. 1137 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,588 The audio for Kato was the interview that Bill Vannatter 1138 00:49:48,722 --> 00:49:50,190 and I did with Simpson. 1139 00:49:50,256 --> 00:49:53,226 And this is about 14 hours after the murders occurred. 1140 00:49:53,293 --> 00:49:55,595 At this point, Simpson is not a suspect. 1141 00:49:55,729 --> 00:49:57,063 He's a potential suspect. 1142 00:49:57,097 --> 00:49:58,765 We still want to know his side of things. 1143 00:49:58,898 --> 00:50:00,734 What's going on? What did you do last night? 1144 00:50:00,867 --> 00:50:02,569 I know you just got in from Chicago. 1145 00:50:02,702 --> 00:50:03,970 We had these terrible murders. 1146 00:50:04,070 --> 00:50:06,239 I want to see what he's got to say about that. 1147 00:50:06,306 --> 00:50:08,475 [Tom] We're investigating, obviously, the death 1148 00:50:08,575 --> 00:50:13,313 of your ex-wife and another man. 1149 00:50:13,413 --> 00:50:14,714 Someone told us that. 1150 00:50:14,781 --> 00:50:16,192 How did you get the injury on your hands? 1151 00:50:16,216 --> 00:50:17,650 [O.J.] I don't know. 1152 00:50:17,751 --> 00:50:21,554 N I was in Chicago, I know. 1153 00:50:21,621 --> 00:50:23,723 But at the house, I was just running around and I... 1154 00:50:23,790 --> 00:50:25,458 [Tom] How'd you do it? 1155 00:50:25,592 --> 00:50:27,427 [O.J.] I broke a glass. I just was... 1156 00:50:27,494 --> 00:50:29,596 you had, one of you guys had just call me 1157 00:50:29,729 --> 00:50:32,499 and I was in the bathroom and I was in the bathroom a 1158 00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:33,967 for a little bit. 1159 00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:36,736 And it was a normal dance, humbling, bumbling around. 1160 00:50:36,803 --> 00:50:40,974 Well, you know, I cut it back in Chicago on a glass, 1161 00:50:41,107 --> 00:50:43,777 on a drinking glass. I cut my fingers all the time. 1162 00:50:43,843 --> 00:50:46,813 You know, I'm playing golf, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. 1163 00:50:46,946 --> 00:50:49,449 So we're getting two or three different scenarios. 1164 00:50:49,516 --> 00:50:50,984 [Tom] If you recall, bleeding at all 1165 00:50:51,117 --> 00:50:53,286 in the truck, in the Bronco? 1166 00:50:53,353 --> 00:50:55,689 [O.J.] I recall bleeding at my house. 1167 00:50:55,789 --> 00:50:58,792 And then I went to the... went to the Bronco. 1168 00:50:58,858 --> 00:51:02,762 The last thing I did The last thing I did b 1169 00:51:02,829 --> 00:51:04,964 was I went and got my phone out of the Bronco. 1170 00:51:05,098 --> 00:51:06,833 [Tom] Do you recall bleeding at all? 1171 00:51:06,966 --> 00:51:09,166 Yeah. I mean, I knew I was bleeding. It was no big deal. 1172 00:51:09,202 --> 00:51:12,505 I bleed all the time, I mean, I bleed all the time, I mean, I 1173 00:51:12,639 --> 00:51:14,474 There's always some knicks and stuff. 1174 00:51:14,541 --> 00:51:16,443 But if you cut it in Chicago, you stick with it, 1175 00:51:16,509 --> 00:51:19,145 you don't say, Well, I might have cut it over here. 1176 00:51:19,279 --> 00:51:21,119 I might have done this and I'm cut... and like, 1177 00:51:21,147 --> 00:51:23,227 it's no big thing. Let's forget about it and move on. 1178 00:51:23,316 --> 00:51:24,617 That's what he wanted. 1179 00:51:24,684 --> 00:51:29,522 Most important evidence now is blood. Blood evidence. 1180 00:51:29,656 --> 00:51:31,133 [Bill] You haven't had any problems with her lately, 1181 00:51:31,157 --> 00:51:34,661 have you? 1182 00:51:34,794 --> 00:51:37,163 [O.J.] I always have problems with her, you know, 1183 00:51:37,230 --> 00:51:42,302 I guess our relationship has been a problem relationship. 1184 00:51:42,369 --> 00:51:45,005 [Bill] O.J., well, that's sort of a problem. 1185 00:51:45,138 --> 00:51:49,542 We've got some blood on and in your car. 1186 00:51:49,676 --> 00:51:51,845 Y 1187 00:51:51,911 --> 00:51:54,714 And sort of a problem with it. 1188 00:51:54,848 --> 00:51:56,325 [O.J.] Well, we'll take my blood test. 1189 00:51:56,349 --> 00:51:58,251 [Tom] Well, we'd like to do that. 1190 00:51:58,351 --> 00:52:00,420 We've got to, of course, the cut on your finger 1191 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:06,159 that you don't... not real clear on. 1192 00:52:06,226 --> 00:52:09,496 Bleeding with the middle left finger left side of his body. 1193 00:52:09,562 --> 00:52:11,765 So right away the wheels start spinning. 1194 00:52:11,865 --> 00:52:13,600 I want to find out about that finger. 1195 00:52:13,700 --> 00:52:16,068 So I'm building this rapport and it worked. 1196 00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:18,672 He didn't invoke, as a consequence, 1197 00:52:18,738 --> 00:52:22,942 we ended up him cooperating and letting us look at his finger. 1198 00:52:23,076 --> 00:52:25,578 Do you recall having that cut on your finger the last time 1199 00:52:25,712 --> 00:52:27,080 you were at Nicole's house? 1200 00:52:27,113 --> 00:52:28,848 [O.J.] A week ago? No, no. 1201 00:52:28,915 --> 00:52:31,084 - [Tom] So it's been since... - [O.J.] Yeah, right. 1202 00:52:31,117 --> 00:52:32,285 Since last night. 1203 00:52:32,385 --> 00:52:34,888 So intense and now he's like, oh I got to cut. 1204 00:52:34,954 --> 00:52:37,257 I don't, I don't know the cut, where I got it. 1205 00:52:37,390 --> 00:52:40,226 He's thinking now what can he say? 1206 00:52:40,293 --> 00:52:42,862 I think you're right. I think you're right. 1207 00:52:42,929 --> 00:52:44,364 O.J., you're bleeding. 1208 00:52:44,431 --> 00:52:46,933 We'll maybe have somebody take a look at that, 1209 00:52:47,100 --> 00:52:49,269 put a Band-Aid on it, and he said, Oh, no, that's fine, 1210 00:52:49,402 --> 00:52:51,103 everything's okay. The back of my mind, 1211 00:52:51,104 --> 00:52:54,908 I'm thinking evidence. Meanwhile he gives us three really sketchy 1212 00:52:55,108 --> 00:52:57,110 responses about how he cut his finger. 1213 00:52:57,210 --> 00:52:58,521 [Bill] What do you think happened? 1214 00:52:58,545 --> 00:53:00,914 [O.J.] I had no idea, man. 1215 00:53:01,047 --> 00:53:03,316 You guys haven't told me anything. 1216 00:53:03,416 --> 00:53:06,252 I have no idea what happened when you said to my daughter, 1217 00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:08,254 said something to me today that somebody else 1218 00:53:08,321 --> 00:53:11,057 might have been involved. might have been involved. I 1219 00:53:11,091 --> 00:53:14,127 w why or what? 1220 00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:15,762 You guys haven't told me anything. 1221 00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:17,707 Every time I asked you guys, are you going to tell me? 1222 00:53:17,731 --> 00:53:20,100 [Tom] Well, we don't we don't know a lot of the answers 1223 00:53:20,233 --> 00:53:24,804 to those questions yet ourself O.J., okay? 1224 00:53:24,938 --> 00:53:26,806 [Bill] Did you ever hit her O.J.? 1225 00:53:26,940 --> 00:53:29,109 [O.J.] Uh... That one night, we had a fight that night. 1226 00:53:29,242 --> 00:53:32,245 That night we had a fight. She hit me, you know. 1227 00:53:32,312 --> 00:53:34,581 And as I said, they never took my statement. 1228 00:53:34,647 --> 00:53:37,417 T They never want to hear 1229 00:53:37,484 --> 00:53:39,285 the housekeeper's side. Nicole was drunk. 1230 00:53:39,352 --> 00:53:42,122 She did her thing. She did her thing. S 1231 00:53:42,255 --> 00:53:43,356 She hit me. 1232 00:53:43,456 --> 00:53:45,625 I, I, I got to tell you, just listen to this. 1233 00:53:45,692 --> 00:53:47,794 It's sort of... 1234 00:53:47,861 --> 00:53:49,295 she's dead, right? 1235 00:53:49,429 --> 00:53:51,131 Let's what else we got here. 1236 00:53:51,264 --> 00:53:54,000 [O.J.] I didn't punch her or anything, but I, I, you know... 1237 00:53:54,134 --> 00:53:55,454 [Bill] Slapped her a couple times. 1238 00:53:55,502 --> 00:53:57,804 [O.J.] No, no, I wrastled her is what I did. 1239 00:53:57,937 --> 00:54:00,774 I haven't slapped her at all. Nicole's a strong girl. 1240 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,643 She's a [scoffs] one of the most conditioned women 1241 00:54:03,777 --> 00:54:06,279 since that period of time. She's hit me a few times, 1242 00:54:06,346 --> 00:54:08,047 but I've never touched her after that. 1243 00:54:08,048 --> 00:54:10,159 [Tom] Did Mr. Weissman, your your lawyer, your attorney 1244 00:54:10,183 --> 00:54:12,052 talk to you anything about this polygraph? 1245 00:54:12,152 --> 00:54:13,787 About us performing one? 1246 00:54:13,853 --> 00:54:15,488 But what are your thoughts on that? 1247 00:54:15,555 --> 00:54:17,199 [O.J.] Should I talk about my thoughts on that? 1248 00:54:17,223 --> 00:54:19,159 You know, I mean, I'm sure eventually I'll do it. 1249 00:54:19,292 --> 00:54:21,661 But it's like I got some weird thoughts now. 1250 00:54:21,728 --> 00:54:23,697 [Tom] The reason we're talking to you is you're, 1251 00:54:23,830 --> 00:54:25,064 you're the ex-husband. 1252 00:54:25,065 --> 00:54:27,334 [O.J.] I know I'm the number one target. 1253 00:54:27,467 --> 00:54:29,736 And now you're telling me And now you're telling me I 1254 00:54:29,836 --> 00:54:32,071 [Tom] Well, there's blood at your house in the driveway 1255 00:54:32,072 --> 00:54:34,407 and that footstep, we got a search warrant. 1256 00:54:34,507 --> 00:54:35,875 W 1257 00:54:36,076 --> 00:54:37,877 [Bill] Is that your blood? This drip there. 1258 00:54:38,078 --> 00:54:41,348 [O.J.] If this is what I dripped running around trying to leave. 1259 00:54:41,414 --> 00:54:43,326 - [Tom] Last night? - [O.J.] Yeah and I wasn't aware 1260 00:54:43,350 --> 00:54:46,753 that it... I was aware that I you know, I was trying to 1261 00:54:46,853 --> 00:54:49,923 get out of the house. I didn't pay any attention to it. 1262 00:54:50,090 --> 00:54:52,359 I mean, you've got to be, like just pissed off. 1263 00:54:52,492 --> 00:54:54,361 Why aren't they using this stuff that we found? 1264 00:54:54,427 --> 00:54:56,863 It was never put on as evidence and it should have been. 1265 00:54:56,930 --> 00:54:59,699 Could have sent you or me to prison for the rest of our life. 1266 00:54:59,766 --> 00:55:01,744 [Kato] I can tell you one thing I keep close to my heart 1267 00:55:01,768 --> 00:55:03,913 is to know where I came from and all that and I still have 1268 00:55:03,937 --> 00:55:07,941 my house guest key and yeah... 1269 00:55:11,878 --> 00:55:15,682 Much of autopsy photos trying to determine what happened. 1270 00:55:15,749 --> 00:55:19,052 Now, again, the blood tells the story, but the wounds 1271 00:55:19,085 --> 00:55:20,387 also tell the story. 1272 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,255 Well, one thing, the body is evidence 1273 00:55:22,389 --> 00:55:24,724 and then the clothing that the person wears is evidence. 1274 00:55:24,858 --> 00:55:27,360 And one other thing that people don't regard a lot 1275 00:55:27,427 --> 00:55:31,464 is the lack of blood in certain areas is also evidence. 1276 00:55:31,564 --> 00:55:36,202 She goes down because of these four stab wounds, that here, 1277 00:55:36,269 --> 00:55:41,908 that penetrate her heart and it had to be a long bladed knife 1278 00:55:42,075 --> 00:55:45,412 to go that deep. On top of her head, 1279 00:55:45,545 --> 00:55:48,381 she also has a stab wound. She has contusions. 1280 00:55:48,448 --> 00:55:50,283 This would put somebody down very quickly. 1281 00:55:50,417 --> 00:55:53,553 There's another wound on her that hasn't happened yet 1282 00:55:53,620 --> 00:55:55,655 because Ron Goldman walks up. 1283 00:55:55,755 --> 00:55:58,992 He is stabbed multiple, multiple times. He's in a fight. 1284 00:55:59,092 --> 00:56:02,062 Look at all the defensive wounds on him. 1285 00:56:02,128 --> 00:56:04,431 He is struggling with everything within him. 1286 00:56:04,497 --> 00:56:08,935 There's a total of 29 stabbing wounds, cuts, defensive wounds. 1287 00:56:09,035 --> 00:56:11,838 And this happened, as we know, in seconds. 1288 00:56:11,938 --> 00:56:13,440 There's what's called a swallowtail, 1289 00:56:13,573 --> 00:56:17,344 if you will look at this, you'll see that the knife is in 1290 00:56:17,444 --> 00:56:19,446 its down deep in his neck. 1291 00:56:19,579 --> 00:56:22,148 Now this is a long bladed knife. Here's what's significant. 1292 00:56:22,282 --> 00:56:25,685 This swallowtail means that the knife cut at this plane 1293 00:56:25,785 --> 00:56:28,321 and then the knife shifted and cut at this plane. 1294 00:56:28,455 --> 00:56:30,757 Do you know why it shifted? It's because he's moving. 1295 00:56:30,824 --> 00:56:33,126 He's got a knife in his neck and he is struggling 1296 00:56:33,259 --> 00:56:35,795 and he is still up. Now, one thing that tells me 1297 00:56:35,862 --> 00:56:38,465 that he was up a significant amount of time 1298 00:56:38,531 --> 00:56:42,202 is the wounds to his body bled as he is standing. 1299 00:56:42,302 --> 00:56:45,138 If you go shift over to the picture of his pants 1300 00:56:45,205 --> 00:56:48,274 that are over here on the wall, it's down both sides, 1301 00:56:48,341 --> 00:56:51,111 this doesn't happen when you're laying in on the ground 1302 00:56:51,177 --> 00:56:52,645 in the position that he's in. 1303 00:56:52,779 --> 00:56:54,647 Look at all the way down on the right side. 1304 00:56:54,781 --> 00:56:56,783 - Sure. - Huge amount of blood. 1305 00:56:56,850 --> 00:56:59,152 But it takes a little time to soak, and to run. 1306 00:56:59,219 --> 00:57:00,487 So he's fighting. 1307 00:57:00,620 --> 00:57:03,023 This kid is fighting with everything within him. 1308 00:57:03,123 --> 00:57:05,025 Even with the wounds, he's not going to go down 1309 00:57:05,058 --> 00:57:07,394 because he's trying to save that person's life 1310 00:57:07,494 --> 00:57:09,734 that's laying there, that he's delivering the glasses to, 1311 00:57:09,796 --> 00:57:11,297 that's laying down on that step. 1312 00:57:11,364 --> 00:57:13,084 [Tom] And you can tell by the lack of blood, 1313 00:57:13,133 --> 00:57:15,301 - they're perimortem wounds. - [Rod] Exactly. 1314 00:57:15,368 --> 00:57:17,337 She has abrasions from consistent with going down 1315 00:57:17,470 --> 00:57:20,040 against that tree. So he's in a fight. 1316 00:57:20,073 --> 00:57:22,642 So now he's down and he's seated on his buttocks. 1317 00:57:22,709 --> 00:57:24,678 He has his back up against the fence, 1318 00:57:24,811 --> 00:57:27,681 the attacker could have left the scene at that time. 1319 00:57:27,814 --> 00:57:29,516 But that's when the attacker goes over 1320 00:57:29,649 --> 00:57:32,652 and we've already looked at the wounds of Nicole Simpson, 1321 00:57:32,719 --> 00:57:36,389 but the one that is going to ensure that she's going to die. 1322 00:57:36,523 --> 00:57:38,892 [Allan] You know, made the second call at 10:44. 1323 00:57:39,059 --> 00:57:42,362 He made the third call. I think we're up to about 10:46 1324 00:57:42,495 --> 00:57:46,700 at about that time. That's when I see a dark figure 1325 00:57:46,766 --> 00:57:48,268 come across the driveway here. 1326 00:57:54,274 --> 00:57:56,976 I heard a noise, a picture moved. 1327 00:57:57,077 --> 00:57:59,079 Sort of a... like, what was that? 1328 00:57:59,145 --> 00:58:01,181 [O.J.] I know I'm the number one target. 1329 00:58:01,314 --> 00:58:03,183 You've got to be, like, just pissed off. 1330 00:58:03,316 --> 00:58:05,161 [O.J.] I knew I was bleeding, but it was no big deal. 1331 00:58:05,185 --> 00:58:05,919 I bleed all the time. 1332 00:58:06,019 --> 00:58:07,387 [Tom] The blood tells the story, 1333 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,657 but the wounds also tell a story. 1334 00:58:10,724 --> 00:58:13,593 [Rod] And we've already looked at the wounds of Nicole Simpson, 1335 00:58:13,693 --> 00:58:17,097 but the one that is going to ensure that she's going to die. 1336 00:58:17,197 --> 00:58:18,431 That's right here. 1337 00:58:18,531 --> 00:58:20,176 This is cut all the way back to the vertebrae. 1338 00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:21,668 But the attacker didn't stop there. 1339 00:58:21,735 --> 00:58:24,604 Turns and goes back to Ron Goldman, 1340 00:58:24,704 --> 00:58:26,840 which is just a step and pulls him over. 1341 00:58:26,906 --> 00:58:29,109 That's when you saw his shirt way up. 1342 00:58:29,209 --> 00:58:30,877 Sure, these are grab marks on the shirt. 1343 00:58:31,044 --> 00:58:32,355 - [Tom] Goldman's shirt. - [Rod] That's what they... 1344 00:58:32,379 --> 00:58:33,723 that's a pattern. That's another pattern. 1345 00:58:33,747 --> 00:58:37,350 And grabs him and then goes from his right to his left 1346 00:58:37,417 --> 00:58:39,452 with the same knife cutting his throat. 1347 00:58:39,552 --> 00:58:43,456 And that's insurance that both of them are dead. 1348 00:58:43,556 --> 00:58:45,091 Got everything but a serial number. 1349 00:58:45,225 --> 00:58:47,560 I mean, with all of these wounds, people will say, well, 1350 00:58:47,694 --> 00:58:49,596 there's two different knives and all that is 1351 00:58:49,729 --> 00:58:51,131 is an intersecting wound. 1352 00:58:51,231 --> 00:58:54,267 [Rod] Just imagine Nicole was probably playing with her Akita. 1353 00:58:54,401 --> 00:58:55,878 - Yeah. - The door rings or something, 1354 00:58:55,902 --> 00:58:59,439 and she goes out, life is over in seconds. 1355 00:58:59,572 --> 00:59:02,208 - My gosh. - You know you're going to die. 1356 00:59:02,275 --> 00:59:05,078 You don't see it. If I could... You know you're going to die. 1357 00:59:05,145 --> 00:59:07,080 This is nine months after the trial, 1358 00:59:07,147 --> 00:59:09,416 jurors are appearing on things like Larry King, 1359 00:59:09,482 --> 00:59:12,252 juror number three, female, white, age 60. 1360 00:59:12,318 --> 00:59:15,588 She states she feels he was guilty, 1361 00:59:15,655 --> 00:59:19,592 but the evidence wasn't there and I've got, huh? 1362 00:59:19,726 --> 00:59:21,804 With a big question mark, I don't care if he was guilty 1363 00:59:21,828 --> 00:59:24,030 or not guilty, you didn't look at the evidence. 1364 00:59:24,097 --> 00:59:25,832 But there was other things in this, too, 1365 00:59:25,932 --> 00:59:28,034 that was very important that need to be brought out. 1366 00:59:28,101 --> 00:59:32,505 And one of them was a photograph of Nicole in a little negligee, 1367 00:59:32,605 --> 00:59:34,674 a black negligee that she was wearing. 1368 00:59:34,774 --> 00:59:37,777 There was a pattern on that negligee 1369 00:59:37,911 --> 00:59:41,114 right under her right arm on her back. 1370 00:59:41,247 --> 00:59:42,849 And it appeared to be a footprint. 1371 00:59:42,949 --> 00:59:44,184 And it was very well defined, 1372 00:59:44,284 --> 00:59:46,319 but a good picture wasn't taken of it. 1373 00:59:46,453 --> 00:59:48,331 [Tom] You circled something here. What did you circle? 1374 00:59:48,355 --> 00:59:50,857 [Rod] I did. When I looked at this clothing. 1375 00:59:50,957 --> 00:59:54,661 This was a footprint type impression in like mud and blood 1376 00:59:54,794 --> 00:59:56,196 on her back. 1377 00:59:56,296 --> 00:59:58,965 There was a lot of flaky blood there. Doesn't show it here. 1378 00:59:59,065 --> 01:00:01,368 Now, what does that mean? That means that blood 1379 01:00:01,468 --> 01:00:03,870 had to be on the ground before this was applied, right? 1380 01:00:03,970 --> 01:00:06,139 - Yeah. - And so this is a 1381 01:00:06,272 --> 01:00:10,643 stomp impression before he left, which includes that... 1382 01:00:10,777 --> 01:00:13,213 there's that rage and it's right here 1383 01:00:13,313 --> 01:00:15,482 on her back underneath the clothing. 1384 01:00:15,548 --> 01:00:17,851 Looks like a shoe impression, which is bruising, 1385 01:00:17,984 --> 01:00:19,786 which means her heart is still beating. 1386 01:00:19,853 --> 01:00:21,521 - Right. - So she had a little bit of life 1387 01:00:21,654 --> 01:00:23,414 left in her in those few seconds that it took 1388 01:00:23,490 --> 01:00:27,660 this thing to occur and here you have that pattern. 1389 01:00:27,794 --> 01:00:33,333 That's not lividity. So that is a last final, you know... 1390 01:00:33,633 --> 01:00:34,900 He's thinking. 1391 01:00:34,901 --> 01:00:36,336 I don't want to say it. 1392 01:00:36,403 --> 01:00:39,639 - You testify to that? - That's a medical examiner's. 1393 01:00:39,706 --> 01:00:41,675 - And we had it. - Who found it? 1394 01:00:41,808 --> 01:00:44,177 - Well, I found it. - Yeah. You're supposed to share 1395 01:00:44,244 --> 01:00:47,514 - with the prosecutor, right? - Right. Well, we did. 1396 01:00:47,580 --> 01:00:50,083 I know you did. We've shared a lot with the prosecutor. 1397 01:00:50,183 --> 01:00:53,520 - We just didn't see it in trial. - Right. Right. 1398 01:00:53,586 --> 01:00:56,589 You have to look at every piece of evidence, every piece, 1399 01:00:56,690 --> 01:00:59,392 looking at everything in order to reconstruct. 1400 01:00:59,526 --> 01:01:01,661 In Ron Goldman's shirt had two patterns 1401 01:01:01,728 --> 01:01:04,864 on the back of the shirt and they were grab patterns. 1402 01:01:04,931 --> 01:01:06,533 [Tom] This is Ron Goldman's shirt. 1403 01:01:06,666 --> 01:01:08,044 [Rod] Okay. This is very interesting. 1404 01:01:08,068 --> 01:01:10,603 This is something that wasn't used in the trial. 1405 01:01:10,704 --> 01:01:14,174 But these are hand transfers. 1406 01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:17,110 And I looked at that, took pictures of that 1407 01:01:17,210 --> 01:01:20,847 and actually picked hairs off of the front of that jacket. 1408 01:01:20,914 --> 01:01:23,883 This is consistent with a grabbing of the material 1409 01:01:24,084 --> 01:01:27,187 and in the struggle or pulling him over to his side 1410 01:01:27,253 --> 01:01:29,089 when he's up against the fence. 1411 01:01:29,122 --> 01:01:31,224 And that's why you see what looks like fingers 1412 01:01:31,358 --> 01:01:34,260 in the voids in between, because the blood can't get there. 1413 01:01:34,394 --> 01:01:37,397 And you have sort of a twisting action that is here 1414 01:01:37,464 --> 01:01:40,467 in both of these. If I grabbed you with the bloody hand, 1415 01:01:40,567 --> 01:01:42,202 I'm going to grab you 1416 01:01:42,268 --> 01:01:44,137 when it's released and goes to the lab. 1417 01:01:44,237 --> 01:01:46,606 The laboratory will lay it out flat 1418 01:01:46,740 --> 01:01:50,110 and then you will see voids, blood can't get down in there. 1419 01:01:50,210 --> 01:01:52,245 And that's why you see what looks like fingers 1420 01:01:52,312 --> 01:01:55,215 in the voids in between because the blood can't get there. 1421 01:01:55,281 --> 01:01:58,451 And you have a sort of a twisting action that is here 1422 01:01:58,585 --> 01:02:00,920 - in both of these. - Same time you showed the DA 1423 01:02:01,054 --> 01:02:03,156 - the pictures? - Yes. And explained 1424 01:02:03,256 --> 01:02:05,792 what the grab marks were. Yeah. It's not a stab and run. 1425 01:02:05,925 --> 01:02:08,137 This is going to tell us what happened during the struggle. 1426 01:02:08,161 --> 01:02:10,396 So the jury sitting there, they don't know about this. 1427 01:02:10,397 --> 01:02:10,463 Man to man, right? 1428 01:02:11,364 --> 01:02:12,908 Ron Goldman had no stab wounds in his back. 1429 01:02:12,932 --> 01:02:14,934 They were at the side and there were five defects 1430 01:02:15,068 --> 01:02:18,338 in the back of the shirt, but he had no stab wounds in his back. 1431 01:02:18,438 --> 01:02:20,607 What does that mean? It's consistent with the struggle. 1432 01:02:20,674 --> 01:02:24,811 Struggle around while the jacket, the shirt is being held 1433 01:02:24,944 --> 01:02:27,280 tightly, and then it's twisted in such a way 1434 01:02:27,347 --> 01:02:30,784 that when he's stabbed, he's actually stabbing into his side. 1435 01:02:30,917 --> 01:02:32,686 That's just indicative of a struggle. 1436 01:02:32,786 --> 01:02:34,821 There were superficial wounds on his neck. 1437 01:02:34,954 --> 01:02:37,791 These are just simply wounds where the attacker 1438 01:02:37,857 --> 01:02:40,493 couldn't get the knife in trying to cut the throat. 1439 01:02:40,627 --> 01:02:43,430 What came between were these appendages the hands, 1440 01:02:43,496 --> 01:02:46,700 the gloves on the hand in this fight, this is going on. 1441 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,469 - Yeah. - And there's a there's has to be 1442 01:02:49,602 --> 01:02:52,706 an arm around the neck of Ron Goldman because 1443 01:02:52,806 --> 01:02:54,674 the glove comes off. I mean, he's not going to 1444 01:02:54,808 --> 01:02:56,085 turn around, say, hey, stop fighting. 1445 01:02:56,109 --> 01:02:57,687 I'ma take off the glove. You just don't do that. 1446 01:02:57,711 --> 01:02:59,112 This is a struggle. 1447 01:02:59,179 --> 01:03:01,190 [Tom] Recovered a bunch of gloves from Simpson's house 1448 01:03:01,214 --> 01:03:03,516 per the search warrant and I was told to go in 1449 01:03:03,650 --> 01:03:08,054 and in court, open court out of the presence of the jury, 1450 01:03:08,121 --> 01:03:10,690 prosecutors here, defense lawyers here, 1451 01:03:10,824 --> 01:03:13,059 investigators behind them and I'm just kind of 1452 01:03:13,126 --> 01:03:16,830 looking over the top and they don't want me to be looking. 1453 01:03:16,963 --> 01:03:19,041 And I said, wait a minute. I've been instructed to watch 1454 01:03:19,065 --> 01:03:21,233 what he's doing when he puts the gloves on, 1455 01:03:21,234 --> 01:03:22,311 [Man] You think O.J. had a bag with the bloody clothes 1456 01:03:22,335 --> 01:03:23,646 because every time he put a new pair of gloves on, 1457 01:03:23,670 --> 01:03:26,072 he's under the counsel table like this, putting them on, 1458 01:03:26,172 --> 01:03:27,674 well, they were slipping right on. 1459 01:03:27,741 --> 01:03:30,343 These are from my house? Simpson is asking me. 1460 01:03:30,410 --> 01:03:31,845 These are from my house? 1461 01:03:31,978 --> 01:03:34,313 No, no, no talking. No talking. They shut me up real quick. 1462 01:03:34,314 --> 01:03:35,358 [Tom] Mr. Simpson, you have the right to remain silent. 1463 01:03:35,382 --> 01:03:36,525 This again, was out of the presence of the jury. 1464 01:03:36,549 --> 01:03:39,085 But again, they're just trying to cover this stuff up. 1465 01:03:39,185 --> 01:03:42,088 You got to keep it simple. Be able to explain it. 1466 01:03:42,188 --> 01:03:44,090 Don't talk over anybody at a level 1467 01:03:44,190 --> 01:03:45,425 that they don't understand. 1468 01:03:45,525 --> 01:03:47,092 I'm not the best artist in the world. 1469 01:03:47,093 --> 01:03:49,396 You know, this is Nicole Simpson's wounds. 1470 01:03:49,529 --> 01:03:52,599 She had seven stab wounds to neck and the scalp. 1471 01:03:52,699 --> 01:03:55,101 I describe the severed wound on her neck. 1472 01:03:55,201 --> 01:03:58,171 There's not one thing that's not explainable. 1473 01:03:58,238 --> 01:04:00,707 [Tom] Somebody made a quote about it sounds like 1474 01:04:00,774 --> 01:04:02,742 we screwed everything up. I said, you know, 1475 01:04:02,876 --> 01:04:04,711 we screwed this case up at every level 1476 01:04:04,778 --> 01:04:07,547 and everything still comes back pointing at Simpson, 1477 01:04:07,614 --> 01:04:10,450 there was nothing exculpatory in this case 1478 01:04:10,550 --> 01:04:13,053 that was substantive nature. And by that, I mean 1479 01:04:13,119 --> 01:04:15,121 there's nothing anybody could point to that says, 1480 01:04:15,221 --> 01:04:17,791 well, maybe he didn't do it, which is very rare 1481 01:04:17,891 --> 01:04:19,092 in any murder case. 1482 01:04:19,225 --> 01:04:20,703 Would you use these testifying in court? 1483 01:04:20,727 --> 01:04:22,104 [Rod] Oh, I'd have them in front of me. 1484 01:04:22,128 --> 01:04:23,363 [Tom] That's why you did this. 1485 01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:25,432 And I would provide the defense a copy of these. 1486 01:04:25,565 --> 01:04:27,734 - That's what you did. - I don't hide these. 1487 01:04:27,867 --> 01:04:29,536 They never ask for my numbers. 1488 01:04:29,602 --> 01:04:34,808 10-11-1994, a few months after it happened on June 12th. 1489 01:04:34,908 --> 01:04:36,752 - For the trial. - And here we have the autopsy, 1490 01:04:36,776 --> 01:04:39,212 the transection of the neck, the left jugular. 1491 01:04:39,279 --> 01:04:43,083 That gives me where the wound started, you know, 1492 01:04:43,216 --> 01:04:46,753 from his right to his left, because it comes deeper, 1493 01:04:46,820 --> 01:04:49,656 starts shallower, and then we have multiple stab wounds 1494 01:04:49,756 --> 01:04:51,925 to the chest and the abdomen and the thigh. 1495 01:04:52,092 --> 01:04:54,461 That's why you have all the bleeding that we have 1496 01:04:54,594 --> 01:04:58,932 on his pants and numerous bruises, abrasions, cuts, 1497 01:04:58,998 --> 01:05:01,935 stab wounds, the left jugular. 1498 01:05:02,068 --> 01:05:04,637 You know where my reports had to go? 1499 01:05:04,771 --> 01:05:06,806 Did you... are you aware that I was not allowed 1500 01:05:06,940 --> 01:05:09,609 to send my reports to who I worked for 1501 01:05:09,676 --> 01:05:12,746 and was hired by and retained by the prosecution? 1502 01:05:12,812 --> 01:05:18,084 I was ordered to send everything everything to Judge Ito. 1503 01:05:18,151 --> 01:05:20,153 So I think the ball is in your court to justify. 1504 01:05:20,286 --> 01:05:22,164 That's the strangest thing I've ever had happened. 1505 01:05:22,188 --> 01:05:24,068 Who ordered you to send everything to judge Ito? 1506 01:05:24,124 --> 01:05:25,835 Judge Ito did. You didn't know that, did you? 1507 01:05:25,859 --> 01:05:27,093 No, I didn't know that. 1508 01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,629 The National Enquirer was setting up some kind of 1509 01:05:29,763 --> 01:05:33,466 a command post in Simi Valley to do some background on me. 1510 01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:37,303 Sunday, March 12th. I got one of my daughters, 11 years old, 1511 01:05:37,437 --> 01:05:38,838 and I'm taking her to Sunday school. 1512 01:05:38,972 --> 01:05:41,474 Back around this time, they still had phone booths 1513 01:05:41,608 --> 01:05:43,686 and there was a phone booth outside the service station. 1514 01:05:43,710 --> 01:05:45,979 And I look over and I do a double take. 1515 01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:49,149 If it wasn't Carl Douglas, the defense attorney, 1516 01:05:49,215 --> 01:05:50,817 then he's got a double somewhere. 1517 01:05:50,884 --> 01:05:53,853 I live in Simi Valley and everybody knows that's where 1518 01:05:53,987 --> 01:05:58,191 the Rodney King trial occurred. So people who are racists, 1519 01:05:58,324 --> 01:06:01,294 and who are dirty cops, who plant evidence, 1520 01:06:01,361 --> 01:06:02,862 they must live in Simi Valley. 1521 01:06:03,029 --> 01:06:05,398 Three times, while I was on the stand, Cochran asked me 1522 01:06:05,498 --> 01:06:07,867 about Simi Valley, to tie me into that. 1523 01:06:08,034 --> 01:06:10,236 So I look at this and I'm thinking, Well, yeah, 1524 01:06:10,337 --> 01:06:11,738 they tried to push this thing. 1525 01:06:11,838 --> 01:06:13,373 This is not a racist valley. 1526 01:06:13,506 --> 01:06:17,544 In a high profile case, especially one that's televised, 1527 01:06:17,677 --> 01:06:21,247 to 55 million people a day. The court wants to maintain 1528 01:06:21,348 --> 01:06:24,049 some type of control, I would think. 1529 01:06:24,050 --> 01:06:26,052 Not true necessarily in this case. 1530 01:06:26,086 --> 01:06:28,188 Stop this cover up. 1531 01:06:28,254 --> 01:06:30,924 If you have the defense going to the media 1532 01:06:31,057 --> 01:06:34,327 two or three times a day during trial, 1533 01:06:34,394 --> 01:06:37,397 going after witnesses, the court should have instructed 1534 01:06:37,530 --> 01:06:41,434 all the attorneys, cops, anybody else involved 1535 01:06:41,534 --> 01:06:44,537 that they should not talk to anybody about any evidence 1536 01:06:44,604 --> 01:06:47,574 at any time in this case until the case is concluded. 1537 01:06:47,707 --> 01:06:50,877 Nobody got gagged, except two people. 1538 01:06:51,077 --> 01:06:52,579 Me and my partner. 1539 01:06:52,712 --> 01:06:55,348 And the defense loved it when we got gagged 1540 01:06:55,415 --> 01:06:56,549 and they weren't. 1541 01:06:56,616 --> 01:06:58,060 [Rod] Looking at this photograph here, 1542 01:06:58,084 --> 01:07:00,353 that bring back any memories. 1543 01:07:00,420 --> 01:07:04,257 [Allan] Yeah it does and you know, not good ones. 1544 01:07:04,391 --> 01:07:07,193 I'm Allan Park, O.J. Simpson's limousine driver, 1545 01:07:07,260 --> 01:07:12,298 the unknown that became the known more than I ever wanted. 1546 01:07:13,233 --> 01:07:14,734 The time I left? 11:15. 1547 01:07:14,801 --> 01:07:16,679 You wouldn't lie to me when I talk to you, would you? 1548 01:07:16,703 --> 01:07:17,737 No. 1549 01:07:17,804 --> 01:07:19,739 It was for a 10:45 pickup that night. 1550 01:07:19,873 --> 01:07:22,742 No activity in the house or on the property or anything. 1551 01:07:22,809 --> 01:07:25,311 I sat there for a little bit, smoked a cigarette. 1552 01:07:25,412 --> 01:07:27,814 I saw that there was a um, an intercom system right there 1553 01:07:27,914 --> 01:07:30,116 with a telephone. Rang, rang, rang, rang, rang. 1554 01:07:30,250 --> 01:07:31,317 No answer, no answer. 1555 01:07:31,418 --> 01:07:33,086 Started to ring on the intercom again. 1556 01:07:33,219 --> 01:07:35,588 Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring. No answer, no answer. 1557 01:07:35,655 --> 01:07:37,695 When I made the first call, you know you're talking, 1558 01:07:37,724 --> 01:07:42,929 you know, 10:43 you know, I made the second call 10:44. 1559 01:07:43,063 --> 01:07:44,297 Made the third call. 1560 01:07:44,431 --> 01:07:46,933 I think we're up to about 10:46 at about that time. 1561 01:07:47,067 --> 01:07:52,105 That's when I see a dark figure come across the driveway here 1562 01:07:52,238 --> 01:07:54,774 and there you see the paw print, just like we have 1563 01:07:54,908 --> 01:07:56,343 in the photograph that's here. 1564 01:07:56,443 --> 01:08:00,080 Same pattern was projected onto her back. 1565 01:08:00,146 --> 01:08:01,481 - Yeah. - In that photograph. 1566 01:08:01,614 --> 01:08:03,650 You just don't speculate and throw ideas out there 1567 01:08:03,783 --> 01:08:04,994 to the jury and say, because I said so. 1568 01:08:05,018 --> 01:08:06,119 That doesn't cut it. 1569 01:08:12,125 --> 01:08:14,894 The one that is going to ensure that she's going to die. 1570 01:08:15,028 --> 01:08:16,229 It's right here. 1571 01:08:16,296 --> 01:08:20,033 And numerous bruises, abrasions, cuts, stab wounds. 1572 01:08:20,100 --> 01:08:22,769 I was ordered to send everything to Judge Ito. 1573 01:08:22,836 --> 01:08:24,137 It's the strangest thing. 1574 01:08:24,270 --> 01:08:28,675 That's when I see dark figure come across the driveway. 1575 01:08:29,476 --> 01:08:31,611 I'm here at the gate looking straight in. 1576 01:08:31,745 --> 01:08:33,813 I could see him from about this area here, 1577 01:08:33,947 --> 01:08:35,248 is when he comes into view. 1578 01:08:35,315 --> 01:08:36,783 - It was a quick walk. - Quick walk. 1579 01:08:36,916 --> 01:08:38,260 It wasn't a run, pick up the intercom again 1580 01:08:38,284 --> 01:08:40,053 and start to ring. It rang a few times 1581 01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,155 before he finally picked up and he said, you know, 1582 01:08:42,288 --> 01:08:43,656 Hey, hey, man, sorry I overslept. 1583 01:08:43,790 --> 01:08:45,768 I just got outta the shower and I'll be down in a minute. 1584 01:08:45,792 --> 01:08:47,036 I'm expecting him to open up the gate. 1585 01:08:47,060 --> 01:08:48,437 He never buzzed me in, the gate never opened. 1586 01:08:48,461 --> 01:08:50,363 And Allan said that he felt something strange. 1587 01:08:50,463 --> 01:08:52,699 It didn't fit. You know, he's here to pick someone up, 1588 01:08:52,799 --> 01:08:56,970 take 'em to the airport, something he didn't understand. 1589 01:08:57,103 --> 01:08:59,539 And it's not too long after I hang up the intercom, 1590 01:08:59,639 --> 01:09:02,842 I see another person come out from this walkway out here 1591 01:09:03,009 --> 01:09:03,877 up to the driveway. 1592 01:09:04,010 --> 01:09:05,311 We all know now it was Kato. 1593 01:09:05,378 --> 01:09:06,658 Opens up the gate and lets me in. 1594 01:09:06,780 --> 01:09:09,015 Kato's right up on me and he's like, hey man, hey, hey, 1595 01:09:09,149 --> 01:09:10,316 did you feel an earthquake? 1596 01:09:12,018 --> 01:09:14,354 [Reporter] Kato had not seen O.J. for more than an hour 1597 01:09:14,487 --> 01:09:17,290 since their return from McDonald's at 9:35. 1598 01:09:17,357 --> 01:09:19,826 [Attorney] Did he seem real excited to have you come? 1599 01:09:20,026 --> 01:09:21,161 [Judge] Sustained. 1600 01:09:21,294 --> 01:09:22,662 Wouldn't you? 1601 01:09:22,796 --> 01:09:24,306 [Allan] Meanwhile OJ still hasn't come out of the house. 1602 01:09:24,330 --> 01:09:26,509 At one point Kato tells me that, he goes, well, I was talking 1603 01:09:26,533 --> 01:09:28,401 to a girlfriend of mine on the phone. 1604 01:09:28,501 --> 01:09:30,637 I heard some thumps on the wall and the picture moved. 1605 01:09:30,704 --> 01:09:33,139 And that's about when OJ came out of the house. 1606 01:09:33,206 --> 01:09:35,742 [Tom] The word is it occurred about 10:35 give or take. 1607 01:09:35,842 --> 01:09:39,179 We had this witness hearing this commotion. 1608 01:09:39,245 --> 01:09:42,716 [Allan] When OJ came over to the car, he was uh, I don't know. 1609 01:09:42,849 --> 01:09:45,050 A little bit aggitated. He seemed to be sweating. 1610 01:09:45,051 --> 01:09:47,187 [Tom] It was warm that night then, you're saying? 1611 01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,656 [Allan] It was June 12, 11:00 at night. 1612 01:09:49,723 --> 01:09:51,691 I was wearing a suit and I wasn't hot. 1613 01:09:51,825 --> 01:09:53,526 [Tom] Was he actually sweating? 1614 01:09:53,660 --> 01:09:56,062 I'm not the sweat expert. 1615 01:09:56,196 --> 01:10:00,333 It's almost laughable. The defense had to do something. 1616 01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,268 They had their reputations on the line. 1617 01:10:02,369 --> 01:10:05,105 The world is watching them, too. What are they gonna do? 1618 01:10:05,205 --> 01:10:07,273 Are they gonna roll over and say, yeah, he did it. 1619 01:10:07,374 --> 01:10:08,742 That he didn't mean to? 1620 01:10:08,875 --> 01:10:11,011 No, they're gonna attack everything. 1621 01:10:11,077 --> 01:10:13,422 [Allan] As we're standing there, he overhears Kato asking about 1622 01:10:13,446 --> 01:10:15,515 an earthquake again. And that's when O.J. asked. 1623 01:10:15,582 --> 01:10:17,083 He goes, oh, we had an earthquake? 1624 01:10:17,217 --> 01:10:18,861 It's like, no man, we didn't have an earthquake. 1625 01:10:18,885 --> 01:10:20,286 Dude, come on. 1626 01:10:20,387 --> 01:10:23,456 Kato is generally, he's scared about something back there. 1627 01:10:23,556 --> 01:10:24,958 I can tell. He's really aggitated. 1628 01:10:25,058 --> 01:10:26,902 And he really wants to go back there and check it out. 1629 01:10:26,926 --> 01:10:28,361 [Tom] Back where? 1630 01:10:28,428 --> 01:10:30,573 [Allan] To go see where these, the sounds were on his wall. 1631 01:10:30,597 --> 01:10:32,375 O.J. asked him about, you know, we had an earthquake. 1632 01:10:32,399 --> 01:10:34,039 I said, no, we didn't have any earthquake. 1633 01:10:34,100 --> 01:10:37,771 I hear O.J. clearly say, all right, we'll go check it out. 1634 01:10:37,904 --> 01:10:39,639 And he points to Kato to go around here. 1635 01:10:39,739 --> 01:10:43,877 He says he's gonna go that way. O.J. follows right behind him. 1636 01:10:43,943 --> 01:10:45,303 And I'm like, that's kind of weird. 1637 01:10:45,378 --> 01:10:46,889 He just said he was gonna go the other way. 1638 01:10:46,913 --> 01:10:49,115 O.J. turns around and as he sees that I'm following him, 1639 01:10:49,249 --> 01:10:51,718 he's all, we gotta go. We gotta get out of here. 1640 01:10:51,785 --> 01:10:53,153 You know, we're runnin' late. 1641 01:10:53,253 --> 01:10:55,064 Kato offered to go get this little, black bag that was 1642 01:10:55,088 --> 01:10:57,257 behind the uh, the black car that, that was there, 1643 01:10:57,390 --> 01:10:58,825 with the trunk opened. 1644 01:10:58,925 --> 01:11:01,795 Simpson abruptly stopped him. Said, no, no. I'll get that bag. 1645 01:11:01,928 --> 01:11:04,898 Went himself and grabbed this half-bone shaped travel bag. 1646 01:11:04,964 --> 01:11:07,267 We've never seen that bag, what was in it. 1647 01:11:07,334 --> 01:11:08,811 No, I thought it was a little bit strange. 1648 01:11:08,835 --> 01:11:12,405 When he left American Airlines, the last thing he remembers 1649 01:11:12,472 --> 01:11:17,944 seeing is O.J. standing right next to the trash container 1650 01:11:18,078 --> 01:11:19,813 at the left of the entrance. 1651 01:11:19,946 --> 01:11:22,582 And on top of that trash container is that half 1652 01:11:22,649 --> 01:11:25,185 bone-shaped travel bag that the other witness 1653 01:11:25,285 --> 01:11:27,654 identifies as being on top of the container. 1654 01:11:27,787 --> 01:11:29,823 Says, yeah, I also saw him shove something down 1655 01:11:29,956 --> 01:11:31,291 in the trash container. 1656 01:11:31,424 --> 01:11:32,859 Prior to the preliminary hearing, 1657 01:11:32,959 --> 01:11:36,096 he's interviewed by Marcia, the prosecutor. 1658 01:11:36,162 --> 01:11:38,531 And he tells her this. This is the last thing I saw. 1659 01:11:38,631 --> 01:11:40,800 That should have been used. Again, to this day, 1660 01:11:40,934 --> 01:11:42,302 people say, where is the knife? 1661 01:11:42,369 --> 01:11:44,337 Where is the shoes? Where is the clothing? 1662 01:11:44,471 --> 01:11:46,473 Well, what did he stick in that trash container? 1663 01:11:46,539 --> 01:11:48,975 Tell me in your own words what you think of this whole mess. 1664 01:11:49,109 --> 01:11:50,477 I'm nervous. 1665 01:11:50,610 --> 01:11:52,755 I know that I'm going on TV in front of the world, you know, 1666 01:11:52,779 --> 01:11:54,957 and here my attorney mom is like, oh, isn't this exciting, 1667 01:11:54,981 --> 01:11:56,449 you know? 1668 01:11:56,516 --> 01:11:58,818 I'm like, no, mom. I'm gonna freakin' puke here. 1669 01:11:58,952 --> 01:12:00,720 [Tom] Like two days after this occurs, 1670 01:12:00,820 --> 01:12:02,789 you get a phone call from a couple of guys 1671 01:12:02,856 --> 01:12:04,824 who say they're lawyers, Bob and Skip. 1672 01:12:04,958 --> 01:12:06,168 [Allan] The defense. They were the first ones 1673 01:12:06,192 --> 01:12:08,695 - to get ahold of me, yes. - [Tom] Anybody? Simpson? 1674 01:12:08,828 --> 01:12:10,039 They said that they were attorneys 1675 01:12:10,063 --> 01:12:11,607 and that they were representing Mr. Simpson. 1676 01:12:11,631 --> 01:12:13,709 [Tom] Well, when they interview you, nobody ever advised you 1677 01:12:13,733 --> 01:12:15,067 that it was being tape recorded. 1678 01:12:15,068 --> 01:12:16,903 It was illegal, but they continued on. 1679 01:12:17,070 --> 01:12:21,408 This is what you call a fishing expedition. 1680 01:12:21,508 --> 01:12:23,789 [Allan] It was like Patty Jo or something that's in charge 1681 01:12:23,843 --> 01:12:25,078 of the witnesses. 1682 01:12:25,178 --> 01:12:26,956 And she says, well, Marcia's coming back up here. 1683 01:12:26,980 --> 01:12:28,214 She wants to talk to you. 1684 01:12:28,348 --> 01:12:30,550 Brought a tape recording that the defense did with me. 1685 01:12:30,684 --> 01:12:32,528 We listened to the tape all the way through and then you 1686 01:12:32,552 --> 01:12:35,255 can hear me hang-up and the tape's still rolling. 1687 01:12:35,355 --> 01:12:38,692 And the first thing we hear them say is, well, that's funny. 1688 01:12:38,758 --> 01:12:40,193 That's not what O.J.'s telling us. 1689 01:12:40,326 --> 01:12:41,995 I mean, we looked at all each other, 1690 01:12:42,095 --> 01:12:44,330 Marcia, I and our jaws just dropped. 1691 01:12:44,397 --> 01:12:45,765 And the next thing he says, 1692 01:12:45,865 --> 01:12:47,543 are you usually sweaty when you get out of the shower? 1693 01:12:47,567 --> 01:12:49,669 Bob Shapiro, the defense attorney was involved. 1694 01:12:49,736 --> 01:12:52,739 He was called by his nickname was BS, Bob Shapiro. 1695 01:12:52,872 --> 01:12:55,107 Why don't we jump to the trial? 1696 01:12:55,108 --> 01:12:56,876 Johnny Cochran has you on cross. 1697 01:12:56,943 --> 01:12:59,112 They really hammered me on the bags. 1698 01:12:59,212 --> 01:13:02,282 You know, they brought in the Louis Vuitton garment bag. 1699 01:13:02,382 --> 01:13:03,950 They seemed to have those bags. 1700 01:13:04,050 --> 01:13:06,162 [Reporter] O.J.'s lawyers tried to claim the vanished valise 1701 01:13:06,186 --> 01:13:07,520 was really this one. 1702 01:13:07,587 --> 01:13:10,223 They started asking me firstly is that, is this the bag? 1703 01:13:10,290 --> 01:13:11,591 I said, no, that's not the bag. 1704 01:13:11,725 --> 01:13:13,893 When they said, the bag, what the bag is he talking to? 1705 01:13:14,060 --> 01:13:16,105 The bag that was on the trash can, trying to tell me that, 1706 01:13:16,129 --> 01:13:17,740 that's it and they said, and I even told them. 1707 01:13:17,764 --> 01:13:20,066 I said, look and that bag's never been used. 1708 01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:22,068 It's brand new, still folded and crushed. 1709 01:13:22,135 --> 01:13:23,870 It looks like it just came out of a package. 1710 01:13:23,937 --> 01:13:26,306 I mean, I can't believe I didn't even see a price tag on it. 1711 01:13:26,406 --> 01:13:29,442 Judge Ito is listening to this, but he's doing something. 1712 01:13:29,576 --> 01:13:31,578 He's not really paying attention. 1713 01:13:31,711 --> 01:13:35,081 I don't know what they were trying to do with the bag thing. 1714 01:13:35,115 --> 01:13:37,093 Get you to roll over on it and say, yeah, that was it. 1715 01:13:37,117 --> 01:13:38,418 - I never did. - Case closed. 1716 01:13:38,485 --> 01:13:40,920 Yeah, never did. 1717 01:13:43,890 --> 01:13:46,426 [Tom] I got this shot from Bundy looking westwards, 1718 01:13:46,559 --> 01:13:48,927 towards Nicole. We look at this. 1719 01:13:48,928 --> 01:13:50,072 There she also bought some Bruno Maglis for herself. 1720 01:13:50,096 --> 01:13:52,465 We see all this blood flowing down towards the street. 1721 01:13:52,599 --> 01:13:57,337 But in the middle here, there's a lot of prints, okay? 1722 01:13:57,437 --> 01:14:01,507 The defense, one of the defense experts came out and said 1723 01:14:01,508 --> 01:14:02,652 She takes off for Bruno Maglis and puts them on the table. 1724 01:14:02,676 --> 01:14:03,786 When talking about the crime scene, one of the problems 1725 01:14:03,810 --> 01:14:06,046 to the LAPD cops who were at the crime scene, 1726 01:14:06,112 --> 01:14:07,456 they walked through a lot of blood, 1727 01:14:07,480 --> 01:14:09,949 left their footwear impressions all over the place. 1728 01:14:10,050 --> 01:14:11,785 [Rod] Nicole's dog got out 1729 01:14:11,851 --> 01:14:14,487 and that was the Akita dog named Kato. 1730 01:14:14,621 --> 01:14:17,190 All this is he's running up and down in the blood 1731 01:14:17,290 --> 01:14:19,459 creating transfers from paw prints. 1732 01:14:19,592 --> 01:14:20,794 The dog is frantic. 1733 01:14:20,927 --> 01:14:22,672 But there's dozens of them. They're all over. 1734 01:14:22,696 --> 01:14:25,932 Yeah, the dog even goes and puts his paws up above her, 1735 01:14:26,066 --> 01:14:30,103 the step, bloody paw prints and doesn't go any further, 1736 01:14:30,170 --> 01:14:32,172 and drew the feet back. 1737 01:14:32,305 --> 01:14:33,516 There you can see the paw prints. 1738 01:14:33,540 --> 01:14:35,151 He drew it back. And it's spattered blood. 1739 01:14:35,175 --> 01:14:38,078 And then leaves, goes up and down the sidewalk. 1740 01:14:38,144 --> 01:14:41,214 There is so much evidence in this case. 1741 01:14:41,314 --> 01:14:46,319 Multiple paw prints, bloody paw prints of the dog, 1742 01:14:46,453 --> 01:14:49,489 Nicole's dog running up and down traumatized 1743 01:14:49,556 --> 01:14:50,724 as to what's going on. 1744 01:14:50,824 --> 01:14:52,992 Those are not footprints from a human being. 1745 01:14:53,126 --> 01:14:55,295 [Tom] If I was just looking at it objectively, 1746 01:14:55,362 --> 01:14:56,963 this needs an explanation. 1747 01:14:57,097 --> 01:14:59,666 That's a dog paw going across here. 1748 01:14:59,733 --> 01:15:01,444 If I'm gonna look at this crime scene and see anything, 1749 01:15:01,468 --> 01:15:02,712 and I'm of the jury or anyone else, 1750 01:15:02,736 --> 01:15:04,013 I want to find out what happened. 1751 01:15:04,938 --> 01:15:06,315 [Rod] So you experiment. And I made a video. 1752 01:15:06,339 --> 01:15:08,875 And we're doing this last experiment on concrete 1753 01:15:09,042 --> 01:15:12,512 to simulate the conditions of concrete with the state 1754 01:15:12,579 --> 01:15:16,082 of the home with a simulated body in the scene. 1755 01:15:16,182 --> 01:15:19,052 And we're gonna have the dog run up close to create patterns 1756 01:15:19,185 --> 01:15:22,054 on the back of the subject to see if those patterns match 1757 01:15:22,055 --> 01:15:24,233 the one in the scene, if they're from a different source 1758 01:15:24,257 --> 01:15:28,761 or if they could be from the source we're gonna create here. 1759 01:15:28,762 --> 01:15:28,862 [Rod] Look at the blood that's on the small tree transfer. 1760 01:15:29,462 --> 01:15:30,230 So we'll pour the stage blood. 1761 01:15:30,363 --> 01:15:31,765 [Rod] And this is a canine deputy. 1762 01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:35,068 There you go. 1763 01:15:35,101 --> 01:15:38,672 It's animal blood. Gets the dog excited. 1764 01:15:38,738 --> 01:15:41,341 And the dog will run around leaving paw prints. 1765 01:15:41,408 --> 01:15:43,576 And I pour some more blood there 1766 01:15:43,710 --> 01:15:46,546 to see if we can replicate. 1767 01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:49,082 And the dog, there you see the paw prints just like 1768 01:15:49,115 --> 01:15:52,085 that we have in the photograph that's here. 1769 01:15:52,185 --> 01:15:53,887 - Yeah. - And... 1770 01:15:54,087 --> 01:15:58,425 And then the same pattern was projected onto her back 1771 01:15:58,558 --> 01:16:03,029 as we have here in that photograph. 1772 01:16:03,096 --> 01:16:05,198 You just don't speculate and throw ideas out there 1773 01:16:05,265 --> 01:16:07,534 to the jury and say because I said so. 1774 01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:08,902 That doesn't cut it. 1775 01:16:09,035 --> 01:16:10,846 They had a bunch of kids out front during the trial 1776 01:16:10,870 --> 01:16:13,540 selling t-shirts, free O.J.. 1777 01:16:13,606 --> 01:16:16,209 I asked this one kid. Nice kids, actually. 1778 01:16:16,276 --> 01:16:17,516 We talked to them a little bit. 1779 01:16:17,577 --> 01:16:20,080 We had kind of a back and forth with these kids. 1780 01:16:20,146 --> 01:16:21,748 Because they did have a sense of humor. 1781 01:16:21,815 --> 01:16:23,049 I'd asked them, you know, 1782 01:16:23,083 --> 01:16:24,718 how do sales go in something like this? 1783 01:16:24,784 --> 01:16:26,762 And this kid looked me right in the eye and he said, 1784 01:16:26,786 --> 01:16:28,421 the longer you have him in there, 1785 01:16:28,488 --> 01:16:30,423 the more money I make out here. 1786 01:16:30,557 --> 01:16:32,058 So keep going type of thing. 1787 01:16:32,092 --> 01:16:34,127 So we went inside. We got stopped halfway in there. 1788 01:16:34,260 --> 01:16:36,930 I think it was CNN, a young reporter, a young woman. 1789 01:16:37,063 --> 01:16:41,267 And she asked, who are those fellas you were talking to? 1790 01:16:41,401 --> 01:16:44,404 I said, well, I'm not supposed to tell anybody, 1791 01:16:44,471 --> 01:16:46,840 but these are these four kids. They're witnesses. 1792 01:16:46,940 --> 01:16:49,242 And we're trying to get into court, so nobody sees them. 1793 01:16:49,309 --> 01:16:50,777 Just screwing with them. 1794 01:16:50,910 --> 01:16:53,947 And they come on and they report these four mysterious witnesses 1795 01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:57,584 that the prosecutors are trying to sneak into the court. 1796 01:16:57,650 --> 01:17:00,653 Now it's the big story of the morning. 1797 01:17:04,257 --> 01:17:06,002 [Tom] I'm gonna say that the major controversy 1798 01:17:06,026 --> 01:17:08,461 in this whole case was blood on the rear gate. 1799 01:17:08,595 --> 01:17:09,605 Do you remember hearing that phrase? 1800 01:17:09,629 --> 01:17:11,097 [Rod] Yeah. 1801 01:17:11,164 --> 01:17:13,933 I didn't get involved in that issue, but I do know about it. 1802 01:17:14,034 --> 01:17:16,603 That's why it's good to have an objective opinion now 1803 01:17:16,670 --> 01:17:18,705 on something that I'm about to show you here. 1804 01:17:18,805 --> 01:17:21,125 [Reporter] Defense attorney, Barry Sheck illicits testimony 1805 01:17:21,174 --> 01:17:24,277 to support his theory that O.J. Simpson was framed. 1806 01:17:24,344 --> 01:17:25,779 We had criminalists at the scene, 1807 01:17:25,845 --> 01:17:27,380 you had blood everywhere. 1808 01:17:27,480 --> 01:17:29,649 Three weeks later, we go on a walk through 1809 01:17:29,716 --> 01:17:32,819 and we come to the rear gate, the infamous rear gate. 1810 01:17:32,952 --> 01:17:36,056 One of the district attorneys looks down at the lower rung. 1811 01:17:36,122 --> 01:17:37,724 And he sees what appears to be blood. 1812 01:17:37,824 --> 01:17:40,126 This is three weeks later. And he looks at it. 1813 01:17:40,193 --> 01:17:42,062 And he says, well, we better take that. 1814 01:17:42,162 --> 01:17:44,798 They collect the sample. It's O.J. Simpson's blood. 1815 01:17:44,864 --> 01:17:46,866 So the big question from the defense, 1816 01:17:47,067 --> 01:17:48,644 well, why didn't you get this the first time? 1817 01:17:48,668 --> 01:17:50,708 It must've been planted, so of course the media runs 1818 01:17:50,804 --> 01:17:52,739 with that and everybody else runs with it. 1819 01:17:52,839 --> 01:17:54,674 Blood on the rear gate. 1820 01:17:54,741 --> 01:17:57,077 The Simpson jury never got an explanation for anything. 1821 01:17:57,177 --> 01:17:59,079 This is in seconds, in 12 seconds 1822 01:17:59,145 --> 01:18:00,747 is an explanation that 1823 01:18:00,847 --> 01:18:04,384 could take some people a month. And you did it in 12 seconds. 1824 01:18:04,517 --> 01:18:06,219 Why in the hell they never saw this. 1825 01:18:06,353 --> 01:18:07,633 I don't know the answer to that. 1826 01:18:13,026 --> 01:18:15,028 [Rod] The door rings or something and she goes out. 1827 01:18:15,128 --> 01:18:17,297 Life is over in seconds. 1828 01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:18,765 You know you're gonna die. 1829 01:18:18,832 --> 01:18:21,334 We hear them say, that's not what O.J.'s telling us. 1830 01:18:21,468 --> 01:18:25,438 [Tom] The infamous rear gate. It's O.J. Simpson's blood. 1831 01:18:25,505 --> 01:18:27,116 Well, why didn't you get this the first time? 1832 01:18:27,140 --> 01:18:29,180 It must've been planted, so of course the media runs 1833 01:18:29,275 --> 01:18:31,311 with that and everybody else runs with it. 1834 01:18:31,378 --> 01:18:33,880 Blood on the rear gate. 1835 01:18:34,047 --> 01:18:37,117 Well, in this one here, I call my bible, my Simpson bible. 1836 01:18:37,183 --> 01:18:40,687 It's about details with all of the nonsense 1837 01:18:40,820 --> 01:18:42,288 and all of the bureaucracy. 1838 01:18:42,355 --> 01:18:44,657 So I put the realities in there with perceptions. 1839 01:18:44,724 --> 01:18:46,059 Neglected evidence. 1840 01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:49,896 There were 512 additional so-called clues. 1841 01:18:50,063 --> 01:18:52,465 So I've got a couple of photos taken on the day of the 1842 01:18:52,532 --> 01:18:54,734 crime scene investigation. This is the rear gate. 1843 01:18:54,834 --> 01:18:56,145 I don't know how good your sight is, 1844 01:18:56,169 --> 01:18:58,705 but if you want to get a magnifying glass. 1845 01:18:58,838 --> 01:19:00,316 Oh, I can see what you're talking about. 1846 01:19:00,340 --> 01:19:03,910 Can you see something down here? 1847 01:19:04,878 --> 01:19:07,814 See a little blood drop? 1848 01:19:11,851 --> 01:19:14,187 Three weeks later we had this photograph here. 1849 01:19:14,254 --> 01:19:18,191 Same location, same configuration, same blood. 1850 01:19:18,258 --> 01:19:20,560 I'm 100% that's the blood drop. 1851 01:19:20,694 --> 01:19:24,564 Drops of blood that are a certain distance apart. 1852 01:19:24,698 --> 01:19:26,599 You can see the measurement here. 1853 01:19:26,700 --> 01:19:29,536 And that still exists in this photograph. 1854 01:19:29,669 --> 01:19:33,406 So I wanted them to rebut the planted blood on the rear gate. 1855 01:19:33,540 --> 01:19:34,841 They wouldn't do it. 1856 01:19:34,908 --> 01:19:37,577 The bottom line is the prosecution did not put this on. 1857 01:19:37,711 --> 01:19:41,081 It's very strong when you get accused of planting blood 1858 01:19:41,214 --> 01:19:44,217 and you're the investigating officer in a double murder case. 1859 01:19:44,284 --> 01:19:47,253 Someone's gotta say something. Someone's gotta get pissed off. 1860 01:19:47,387 --> 01:19:48,555 It's as simple as that. 1861 01:19:48,688 --> 01:19:49,956 [Rod] It's a pattern. 1862 01:19:50,056 --> 01:19:51,901 In other words you have two drops that are distant, 1863 01:19:51,925 --> 01:19:55,628 the same measurement apart. Somebody dropped the ball. 1864 01:19:55,729 --> 01:19:57,597 Why wasn't this found originally? 1865 01:19:57,731 --> 01:20:00,300 They did have the criminalist testify. That's why he was... 1866 01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:01,568 Attention was diverted. 1867 01:20:01,701 --> 01:20:03,212 It was a mistake that he didn't collect it. 1868 01:20:03,236 --> 01:20:06,473 That's too bad, but if somebody turned this around 1869 01:20:06,573 --> 01:20:09,142 and made it sound like cops planted this evidence. 1870 01:20:09,242 --> 01:20:10,744 We just proved that they didn't. 1871 01:20:10,877 --> 01:20:13,146 Why wouldn't they want a jury to look at these two? 1872 01:20:13,246 --> 01:20:14,581 The defense has a motion. 1873 01:20:14,647 --> 01:20:16,058 Have you ever heard the term, coverup? 1874 01:20:16,082 --> 01:20:18,585 [Tom] To get hair samples from myself. 1875 01:20:18,718 --> 01:20:19,719 The coverup continues. 1876 01:20:19,786 --> 01:20:20,930 [Tom] I don't have all that much. 1877 01:20:20,954 --> 01:20:23,323 I think the standard was 40 follicles. 1878 01:20:23,423 --> 01:20:25,263 Maybe they'll find me in contempt or something. 1879 01:20:25,325 --> 01:20:28,228 Cause I don't even have that many. 1880 01:20:29,662 --> 01:20:31,943 He wants some hair samples from us because if hair becomes 1881 01:20:31,998 --> 01:20:35,802 an issue in the case, it could be that cops had left it there. 1882 01:20:35,935 --> 01:20:37,904 For what? I don't know. Just a dirty cop. 1883 01:20:37,971 --> 01:20:39,439 They actually pushed it. 1884 01:20:39,506 --> 01:20:41,741 They said we would like blood samples from these cops. 1885 01:20:41,808 --> 01:20:44,110 Well, there's only three bloods here of any interest. 1886 01:20:44,244 --> 01:20:46,312 The two victims and the suspect, Simpson. 1887 01:20:46,446 --> 01:20:48,314 And that's the defense. 1888 01:20:48,448 --> 01:20:49,916 And they get away with this crap. 1889 01:20:49,983 --> 01:20:53,953 If you gag everybody involved, prevent them from going to the 1890 01:20:54,020 --> 01:20:55,955 media three to four times a day, 1891 01:20:56,089 --> 01:20:58,958 and putting their own spin on evidence and cops are dirty. 1892 01:20:59,092 --> 01:21:01,828 Cops are lying. Cops are planting evidence. 1893 01:21:01,961 --> 01:21:03,930 We can't respond to that. We're gagged. 1894 01:21:04,064 --> 01:21:05,198 We're investigating this. 1895 01:21:05,298 --> 01:21:07,534 If we're dirty, the case against him is lost. 1896 01:21:07,634 --> 01:21:10,370 [Nicole] He drove up again. Can you send somebody over? 1897 01:21:10,470 --> 01:21:12,148 [Operator] Wait a minute. What kind of car is he in? 1898 01:21:12,172 --> 01:21:13,473 [Nicole] He's in a white Bronco. 1899 01:21:13,606 --> 01:21:15,975 First of all, he broke the back door down. 1900 01:21:16,309 --> 01:21:18,278 But they can't show us any evidence of that. 1901 01:21:18,445 --> 01:21:20,456 [Rod] Before the speculation that occurred out there 1902 01:21:20,480 --> 01:21:23,616 among the public and experts that one of them said 1903 01:21:23,683 --> 01:21:26,886 that this fight between whoever the attacker was 1904 01:21:26,986 --> 01:21:30,824 and Nicole Brown Simpson lasted at least 15 minutes. 1905 01:21:30,957 --> 01:21:32,517 - 15 minutes is a long time. - Oh, yeah. 1906 01:21:32,559 --> 01:21:34,861 When the public was thrown astray, 1907 01:21:34,994 --> 01:21:38,965 it messed up the timeline because O.J. Simpson, a suspect 1908 01:21:39,099 --> 01:21:41,835 was already at the airport when this fight is still going on, 1909 01:21:41,968 --> 01:21:43,813 alledgely type thing. Well, let me show you something. 1910 01:21:43,837 --> 01:21:46,639 Took two homicide detectives, put them in white, 1911 01:21:46,706 --> 01:21:48,641 used a retracted-bladed knife. 1912 01:21:48,708 --> 01:21:51,177 And the instructions were, we want you two to fight. 1913 01:21:51,311 --> 01:21:53,480 And we want you to fight as long as you can fight. 1914 01:21:53,546 --> 01:21:57,817 So I want to show you something as to how long it takes 1915 01:21:57,884 --> 01:22:02,856 for this fight to occur simulating the attack 1916 01:22:02,922 --> 01:22:04,500 and the information, the evidence that we had 1917 01:22:04,524 --> 01:22:07,761 from the Simpson crime scene. 1918 01:22:07,861 --> 01:22:10,864 When that video starts running, we'll say go. 1919 01:22:10,930 --> 01:22:14,200 We'll put, put it on this. It'll all be videoed. 1920 01:22:14,334 --> 01:22:17,103 And here's your knife. 1921 01:22:17,203 --> 01:22:18,405 So watch this. 1922 01:22:18,538 --> 01:22:20,674 The cameras are going. 1923 01:22:20,740 --> 01:22:22,342 Okay, Ron Goldman walks in. 1924 01:22:22,409 --> 01:22:25,912 Here he comes. Hey, hey, hey, hey. 1925 01:22:34,254 --> 01:22:35,455 He's stepping in the blood. 1926 01:22:35,555 --> 01:22:37,924 There you see the projected stains. 1927 01:22:38,091 --> 01:22:39,392 Okay. How long did that take? 1928 01:22:39,526 --> 01:22:40,927 Stop time. 1929 01:22:41,094 --> 01:22:44,364 Okay, don't step in anything. Just stay there right now. 1930 01:22:44,431 --> 01:22:46,266 Now you know how much time that was? 1931 01:22:46,399 --> 01:22:48,401 12 seconds. 1932 01:22:48,535 --> 01:22:51,971 - How many times is he stabbed? - 30 times. 1933 01:22:52,105 --> 01:22:53,406 How long did that take? 1934 01:22:53,540 --> 01:22:55,141 - 12 seconds. - 12 seconds. 1935 01:22:55,241 --> 01:22:56,643 That's a long time. 1936 01:22:56,743 --> 01:22:58,921 Look how much blood is on the person that gets attacked. 1937 01:22:58,945 --> 01:23:00,413 And this would be Ron Goldman. 1938 01:23:00,547 --> 01:23:03,583 Look how little gets on to this person and where it was, 1939 01:23:03,650 --> 01:23:05,285 was around the socks and the shoes. 1940 01:23:05,418 --> 01:23:06,920 I still have that clothing. 1941 01:23:07,053 --> 01:23:10,590 Took it as evidence to present in the trial to show how little 1942 01:23:10,657 --> 01:23:13,293 blood gets on the attacker because it forces away from 1943 01:23:13,426 --> 01:23:16,763 and here you have all the blood that's down here. 1944 01:23:16,830 --> 01:23:19,566 This is not something where we're just gonna 1945 01:23:19,632 --> 01:23:21,801 play around here. No, they fought. 1946 01:23:21,935 --> 01:23:25,572 It was almost identical to what my findings were. 1947 01:23:25,638 --> 01:23:27,073 Goldman went down. 1948 01:23:27,107 --> 01:23:29,409 The person playing Goldman went down by the force from 1949 01:23:29,476 --> 01:23:31,678 the person that's stabbing him. 1950 01:23:31,778 --> 01:23:34,614 And his feet go up. And he goes down. 1951 01:23:34,681 --> 01:23:36,783 And they're moving around in the blood. 1952 01:23:36,850 --> 01:23:39,753 Smearing the blood exactly like it was at the scene 1953 01:23:39,819 --> 01:23:44,791 for 30 stab wounds, incised wounds in this fight. 1954 01:23:44,924 --> 01:23:48,795 There's another transfer pattern here on the north wall, 1955 01:23:48,862 --> 01:23:51,430 which at its highest point is 1956 01:23:51,431 --> 01:23:52,508 We were very happy that we found this amount of blood 1957 01:23:52,532 --> 01:23:56,169 one foot, four and three quarters of an inch high. 1958 01:23:59,839 --> 01:24:03,276 [Tom] That kind of takes me back to 3:00 AM on June 12th. 1959 01:24:03,343 --> 01:24:04,878 All this blood and everything else. 1960 01:24:05,045 --> 01:24:08,448 Someone who gets stabbed this many times, this viciously... 1961 01:24:08,515 --> 01:24:09,816 [Rod] This is personal, hate. 1962 01:24:09,883 --> 01:24:11,193 [Tom] Because we're assuming if it's hate, 1963 01:24:11,217 --> 01:24:12,577 the suspect has to know the victim. 1964 01:24:12,652 --> 01:24:13,887 [Rod] You've done the deed. 1965 01:24:14,054 --> 01:24:15,531 You've killed the people that you went there to kill. 1966 01:24:15,555 --> 01:24:17,724 And then somebody was wrong place, wrong time. 1967 01:24:17,824 --> 01:24:18,864 As soon as they got there, 1968 01:24:19,059 --> 01:24:20,469 I felt that, that's what happened here. 1969 01:24:20,493 --> 01:24:21,861 This wasn't sex. 1970 01:24:22,062 --> 01:24:26,066 This wasn't theft. This was revenge, mad, hate. 1971 01:24:26,166 --> 01:24:30,670 Notice that these projected stains, they go out to the side, 1972 01:24:30,804 --> 01:24:33,406 those that didn't hit the pavement hit the socks. 1973 01:24:33,506 --> 01:24:35,074 [Tom] The average person would think there should be 1974 01:24:35,075 --> 01:24:36,652 a whole lot of blood on him and there's not. 1975 01:24:36,676 --> 01:24:38,387 [Rod] But the victims have a lot of blood on them. 1976 01:24:38,411 --> 01:24:39,846 Ron Goldman's covered in blood. 1977 01:24:39,979 --> 01:24:41,848 Nicole Brown Simpson is covered in blood. 1978 01:24:41,915 --> 01:24:44,217 But the person that you suspected, O.J. Simpson, 1979 01:24:44,351 --> 01:24:45,752 where did it have his blood? 1980 01:24:45,852 --> 01:24:48,088 On the back of the legs, around the feet, 1981 01:24:48,188 --> 01:24:49,356 on the socks. 1982 01:24:49,489 --> 01:24:51,334 [Tom] Sure. One or two of the jurors alluded to, 1983 01:24:51,358 --> 01:24:54,094 they said that Simpson, if he was the killer would've been 1984 01:24:54,194 --> 01:24:55,362 covered in blood. 1985 01:24:55,428 --> 01:24:57,097 If they were shown this video, 1986 01:24:57,163 --> 01:24:58,563 they might have a different opinion. 1987 01:24:58,598 --> 01:25:00,500 How can you question any of this? 1988 01:25:00,567 --> 01:25:02,569 And the blood would be on the gloves. 1989 01:25:02,702 --> 01:25:04,537 There you go. This doesn't lie. 1990 01:25:04,604 --> 01:25:06,248 And there were a lot of people observing it. 1991 01:25:06,272 --> 01:25:07,707 This is the grab mark. 1992 01:25:07,774 --> 01:25:09,485 [Tom] Yeah. And the Simpson jury never got an explanation 1993 01:25:09,509 --> 01:25:10,710 for anything. 1994 01:25:10,777 --> 01:25:11,878 You know? You're right. 1995 01:25:11,945 --> 01:25:13,880 This here, in seconds, in 12 seconds, 1996 01:25:14,047 --> 01:25:17,450 is an explanation that could take some people a month. 1997 01:25:17,550 --> 01:25:19,386 And you did it in 12 seconds. 1998 01:25:19,519 --> 01:25:21,054 Why in the hell I never saw this? 1999 01:25:21,087 --> 01:25:22,589 I don't know the answer to that. 2000 01:25:22,722 --> 01:25:25,792 The answer's simple. Put it in the damn evidence. 2001 01:25:25,892 --> 01:25:27,794 The first ballot was 10 to 2, actually. 2002 01:25:27,894 --> 01:25:31,364 And there were two holdouts that said, we think he was guilty. 2003 01:25:31,431 --> 01:25:34,234 It didn't take but an hour and a half for the rest of the jurors 2004 01:25:34,300 --> 01:25:36,403 to talk these two into rolling over. 2005 01:25:36,469 --> 01:25:39,072 Juror number six just flat out came and said, 2006 01:25:39,105 --> 01:25:41,274 I don't believe any of the police witnesses 2007 01:25:41,374 --> 01:25:41,408 other than her door? Was it to... 2008 01:25:42,075 --> 01:25:43,285 without any further explanation. 2009 01:25:43,309 --> 01:25:44,920 They need evidence to show, so they're like, 2010 01:25:44,944 --> 01:25:47,280 the glove has his print on it, whatever. 2011 01:25:47,414 --> 01:25:49,249 And see the grab mark? Look at the grab mark. 2012 01:25:49,382 --> 01:25:50,617 That's a grab mark. 2013 01:25:50,750 --> 01:25:52,628 Two of those were on the back of Goldman's shirt. 2014 01:25:52,652 --> 01:25:55,388 All they need is one person in that jury box to roll over 2015 01:25:55,455 --> 01:25:57,257 and say, hey, I don't think he did it. 2016 01:25:57,390 --> 01:26:00,560 There is so much evidence in this case. 2017 01:26:00,627 --> 01:26:01,928 [Rod] This wasn't staged. 2018 01:26:02,028 --> 01:26:03,239 I mean, we just told them to fight. 2019 01:26:03,263 --> 01:26:04,330 [Tom] It's rage. 2020 01:26:04,431 --> 01:26:08,101 [Rod] Rage, fear, revenge, theft or sex. 2021 01:26:08,234 --> 01:26:12,105 It all fits. It all fits. 2022 01:26:13,273 --> 01:26:16,943 Everybody says today, they say, he'd have been covered in blood. 2023 01:26:17,043 --> 01:26:18,321 Yeah, look at the projected stain. 2024 01:26:18,345 --> 01:26:19,779 Look at the projected stains. 2025 01:26:19,846 --> 01:26:21,424 [Tom] If I was in the jury looking at this, 2026 01:26:21,448 --> 01:26:23,492 I can say, well, maybe he wouldn't be covered in blood. 2027 01:26:23,516 --> 01:26:24,751 You know? 2028 01:26:24,818 --> 01:26:27,153 That would be my responsibility to explain that. 2029 01:26:27,287 --> 01:26:30,056 Of course, we never saw it. 2030 01:26:30,123 --> 01:26:32,625 We never saw it. 2031 01:26:34,761 --> 01:26:37,297 Nine months of this and you take four hours 2032 01:26:37,430 --> 01:26:40,300 to come to a decision, two of those being lunch. 2033 01:26:40,367 --> 01:26:42,335 I don't care whether he was guilty or not guilty, 2034 01:26:42,469 --> 01:26:43,937 that means you didn't ask questions. 2035 01:26:44,070 --> 01:26:46,673 You didn't ask for inquiries in this, that or the other. 2036 01:26:46,806 --> 01:26:48,341 Were they napping? I don't know. 2037 01:26:48,475 --> 01:26:50,119 [Reporter] Juror number one shocked the court 2038 01:26:50,143 --> 01:26:53,279 by handing over the verdict. 2039 01:26:54,814 --> 01:26:56,149 [Tom] Look at the evidence. 2040 01:26:56,216 --> 01:27:01,321 A supposition is not evidence. Evidence is evidence. 2041 01:27:01,388 --> 01:27:04,290 Come back this soon, they have found him guilty. 2042 01:27:04,357 --> 01:27:07,394 And no one can tell me they looked at this evidence 2043 01:27:07,494 --> 01:27:10,330 with any amount of curiosity, period. 2044 01:27:10,463 --> 01:27:14,034 Some fancy lawyer throws a bunch of nine dollar words at you. 2045 01:27:14,134 --> 01:27:16,236 And you're like, boy, he sounds really good. 2046 01:27:16,336 --> 01:27:18,571 He can't be lying or whatever else. He's lying. 2047 01:27:18,672 --> 01:27:21,041 How could anyone say that he didn't do it? 2048 01:27:21,074 --> 01:27:24,577 There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that O.J. Simpson 2049 01:27:24,678 --> 01:27:27,847 killed Nicole and Ron. There's no doubt. 2050 01:27:28,048 --> 01:27:29,816 [Woman] Not guilty of the crime of murder. 2051 01:27:29,883 --> 01:27:31,685 [cheering] 2052 01:27:31,818 --> 01:27:33,086 [Woman] It made me very sad. 2053 01:27:33,186 --> 01:27:35,464 I felt very sad for the families watching their reactions. 2054 01:27:35,488 --> 01:27:37,857 If we go back in history 100 years, 2055 01:27:38,058 --> 01:27:41,695 I've never seen anything like this. 2056 01:27:57,844 --> 01:27:59,746 I don't care what people think. 2057 01:27:59,879 --> 01:28:02,615 But if you really care and you wanna know what happened, 2058 01:28:02,716 --> 01:28:06,052 dig a little deeper and see what happened. 2059 01:28:06,186 --> 01:28:08,455 Do your own edition. 2060 01:28:08,722 --> 01:28:10,099 [Mark] I would like you to listen carefully. 2061 01:28:10,123 --> 01:28:13,026 If you don't understand anything, tell me, okay? 2062 01:28:13,059 --> 01:28:15,528 Mr. Simpson, you have the right to remain silent. 2063 01:28:15,595 --> 01:28:17,206 If you give up the right to remain silent, 2064 01:28:17,230 --> 01:28:19,041 anything you say can and will be used against you 2065 01:28:19,065 --> 01:28:20,734 in a court of law.