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[theme music]

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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When I first stepped
into a vocal booth

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to record the voice
of Disney's Mulan,

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I had no idea how
much joy that film

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would continue to
bring audiences

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for all of these years.

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It also changed my life
and led to many other voice

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acting roles, including
returning to the character

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and world of Mulan many times.

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No matter what it takes,
I'm finishing this mission.

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As I gave voice
to these characters,

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I got to see firsthand the
changes in the animation

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industry as it shifted
from the 2D hand-drawn

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animation I loved
growing up, to fully

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computer-generated animation.

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Sometimes your song can't
start until you go someplace.

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This is a story
celebrating the unique

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magic of hand-drawn
animation, how

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technology changed everything.

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And most importantly,
the remarkable people

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at the center of it all.

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And who better to
tell this story

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than these visionary artists
themselves and the dreamers

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they continue to inspire.

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[music playing]

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Animation is a weird
unnatural art form in a way.

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I mean, you're
bringing something

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that is not alive to life.

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A character comes to life by a
whole bunch of scribbly strokes

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on a piece of paper.

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And I think this is
what grabs most animators

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or guys who eventually
become animators,

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is when they see that drawing
come to life on screen.

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It's like your brain goes,
OK, part of it is alive,

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and it's real, and it's moving.

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And the other part
is like, no, no.

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Look, I can see lines up there.

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I can see things that
were made by people,

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and that's I think
what fascinated me.

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You just run it
over and over and over

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and it's just
mesmerizing like this.

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Wow, I actually did this.

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It's a kind of black
magic, and it's something

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that many people can
go their entire lives

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without ever understanding.

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So is that what animation is?

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It's feeling the energy,
it's animating the forces,

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it's scribbling.

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It's like an explosion
of acting passion

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and physics on the page.

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And man, it's making
the impossible possible.

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That was so cool.

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No, it's not real.

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You're looking at a
drawing but it's living.

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How does that work?

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That's the most amazing
thing to me about it.

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When they hear a voice
come out of a drawing,

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out of a character
that they've created,

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it's an illusion but it's
a marvelous illusion.

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And you just can't
wait to do more of it.

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The level of artistry to
achieve this is mind blowing.

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It's unlike any other art form.

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And when you examine
an isolated moment,

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each frame is a masterpiece.

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But yet, when you put all of
them collectively together,

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you have an entirely new
dimension, a new level

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of the illusion of life.

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The people who invented this
art, craft, skill, however you

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want to describe it,
developed it to a point

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where they made you believe in
characters who didn't exist.

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And I can go back to Windsor
McCay and Gertie the dinosaur.

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He had it.

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He got it right away.

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Somehow he breathed life
into this inanimate object.

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As an animator, it's almost
without sounding too pompous,

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but I feel almost godlike.

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It was alive, and I just
like, oh, I can do this.

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It was great.

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I think it speaks to everyone.

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It is a universal art form.

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It comes from a
very unique place.

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Creating out of the ethers
stories, drawing them,

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or whether it's on
computer now or whatever,

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it touches everybody and it
can elevate and bring people

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great joy and great connection.

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Cartoons make
people laugh, man.

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Cartoons are a way
into a person's soul

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and to a person's heart.

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But I think that first moment
where the light switch goes on

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in your head, whether
you're a kid or an adult

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and you really start
to understand it,

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once you get it you
really can't go back.

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WEN: And it all
starts with one very

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simple thing, a pencil test.

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A pencil test to me is
the purest form of what

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it is that we do of animation.

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For us, the pencil test is the
first reveal of a performance,

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in its rawest form.

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A pencil test is when you
find out how bad you are.

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I've done a lot of
pencil tests actually.

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When I was in college, when I
first started in this business,

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that was probably the first
time I really had a sense

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of what the potential was.

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And we were still
working with film.

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So you would shoot, hope
to God you timed it right,

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and wait eight weeks for
the film to come back,

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which now seems crazy.

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As painful as it
might be, it gives you

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a really good
grounding and starts

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to get it into your head
what a 24th of a second

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really feels like.

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It's a blink of an
eye for everybody.

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But for an animator, you have
to know what that period of time

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means in terms of
certain actions.

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You have to know what a
24th of a second feels like.

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It was rough and wild,
but the forms had weight.

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And it was magic.

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And I thought that to get it
work at Disney, to animate,

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you needed to draw a
perfectly like Sleeping Beauty

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and I didn't do that.

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I didn't know it was possible
to animate like that.

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Something pretty
amazing about a pencil

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test that it didn't have color.

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And really the artifice or
the fact that it was drawn

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with a pencil was evident.

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When you just have
stacks of paper,

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you don't really get a
sense of the movement

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and the timing and
the performance

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until you see it playing
through the camera's eye.

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A first peek, it's kind
of birth, if you will,

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for an animated scene.

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So there's a vitality that is
in the very first pencil test

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after you shoot them that is
very exciting, very exciting.

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You're taking something
that only exists here.

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Nobody else in the
universe has it.

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It's only here.

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And it's coming out of your hand
and it's going onto the paper

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or on the screen.

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And those lines
are going to define

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that thing that's in your head.

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But it's not just going
to define it as an image,

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you're using all
four dimensions.

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You're using height,
width, depth, and time.

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And all of those to create
something that lives.

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WEN: 2D hand-drawn animation
is one of the most incredible

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storytelling illusions
ever performed,

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and the inspiration for
becoming an animator

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usually comes at an early age.

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We all have our
first film that we

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see that drops you
into this medium

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in a sort of a true epiphany.

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And that movie for me
was 101 Dalmatians.

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It just felt so
alive and vibrant.

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And the characters were
like real, even though they

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were completely exaggerated.

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The dogs were real to me.

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Roger was real.

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Anita was real and
their dancing together,

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and this is a real dance.

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And then in steps
Cruella de Vil.

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I mean, everything about
that movie lit up my senses.

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Even seeing in a
newspaper article.

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I remember there was
an article about 101

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Dalmatians being reissued.

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And there was a series of
drawings of Pongo running.

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Even seeing something like
that just makes my heart race.

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This is something about
a series of drawings

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that connect and projected will
give you the illusion of life.

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That is the ultimate magic trick
to me and it won't let me go.

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I will always do this.

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My mom took me to see Dumbo
when I was a little boy.

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And I saw these moving
images on screen.

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I fell in love with animation.

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I saw Sleeping Beauty in the
theater on its first release

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and it was so powerful to me.

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I was terrified of Maleficent.

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I saw Snow White.

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I saw Bambi, Lady and
the Tramp, Cinderella,

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all of the classics.

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And they made such an
incredible impression on me.

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The film that sealed the deal
for me, it was Jungle Book.

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And I was just mesmerized.

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And I started raining.

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And my family said, "Let's go."

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I said, "No way.

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Not moving from here right now."

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So I sat soaking wet
until the movie was over

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because it was just
something happened that day

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that sealed the deal.

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We definitely
had Disney movies

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on at home when I was young.

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My mom said when I was four, I
watched Bambi every single day

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and that's still one
of my favorite movies.

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The first movie I ever
saw in a movie theater,

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this is Mexico
City, was Pinocchio.

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And I became obsessed
with that movie.

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I dreamt of being
a little wooden boy

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that would be eaten by a whale.

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I was so excited by all
the adventures he went.

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I mean, it's kind of a
scary movie but I loved it.

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I saw a special
or a series actually

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on Nickelodeon called
Lights, Camera, Action that

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was hosted by Leonard Nimoy.

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And they profiled a college
kid who had done an animated

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short called Bandits.

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How long did it take
you to make this seven

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minutes of film work?

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It took about two years.

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I think it was
about a guy and a cat

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chasing some bank robbers.

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It was pretty simple but
it was cel animation.

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And this was a kid
who was just like me.

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He wasn't in the business.
He wasn't in Hollywood.

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He was hoping to get into it.

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And it was the first
indication that, wow, this

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is not this unreachable thing.

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This is something that
I maybe can access

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at some point in my life.

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In the '70s, we
didn't have choices.

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There was no cable TV.

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You had like three
channels for adults

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and every once in a
while at Christmas,

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they'd run a thing for a kid.

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Then you had to
syndicated channels.

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And on those channels, they
would run programming for kids

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in certain parts of the day.

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So naturally, it was cartoons.

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So my entire life was cartoons.

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I didn't like the real world.

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I liked cartoons.

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Can you do this for a living?

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WEN: Animators
are often inspired

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and mentored by the
artists and visionaries

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who came before them.

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Most of the people who
produced animated cartoons

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were in it as a
business, but Walt

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saw it almost as a calling.

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He had artistic
ambitions for a time.

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He put those aside
because he was a leader.

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He was a visionary.

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He saw steps ahead that no
one else seemed to recognize.

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And he knew that for his
cartoons to get better,

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which is always his
mantra, make them better.

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Make the gags funnier.

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Make the characters
more endearing.

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In order to do that, the
artwork had to improve.

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His artists had to do better.

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And he was the only
cartoon producer

251
00:12:17,319 --> 00:12:19,447
who thought in those
terms and actually

252
00:12:19,530 --> 00:12:22,074
put those thoughts into action.

253
00:12:22,158 --> 00:12:25,453
WEN: In fact, Walt Disney
started his own art school,

254
00:12:25,536 --> 00:12:28,247
which would go on
to train generations

255
00:12:28,330 --> 00:12:31,584
of animators and storytellers.

256
00:12:31,667 --> 00:12:32,918
The first thing
I did when I got

257
00:12:33,002 --> 00:12:35,963
a little money to
experiment, I put

258
00:12:36,046 --> 00:12:37,423
all my artists back in school.

259
00:12:37,506 --> 00:12:40,759
Art schools that existed
then didn't quite

260
00:12:40,843 --> 00:12:43,929
have enough for
what we needed so we

261
00:12:44,013 --> 00:12:45,431
set up our own art school.

262
00:12:45,514 --> 00:12:48,100
I can really mention anybody
more than the nine old men

263
00:12:48,184 --> 00:12:54,273
because the nine old men were
Walt Disney's nine chosen best,

264
00:12:54,356 --> 00:12:55,483
if you will.

265
00:12:55,566 --> 00:12:57,276
And this was a term
that Walt gave them.

266
00:12:57,359 --> 00:12:58,944
He borrowed it from
the nine Supreme

267
00:12:59,028 --> 00:13:01,989
Court justices of the
United States Supreme Court.

268
00:13:02,072 --> 00:13:04,658
And the funny thing
is that Walt called them

269
00:13:04,742 --> 00:13:08,120
the nine old men of
a joke because they

270
00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:10,664
were pretty pretty young at the
time that he named them that.

271
00:13:10,748 --> 00:13:13,792
I think they had like in
their 30s or maybe 40s,

272
00:13:13,876 --> 00:13:16,837
but certainly not really gray
haired old men at that point.

273
00:13:16,921 --> 00:13:20,466
They were Woolie Reitherman,
Marc Davis, Frank Thomas,

274
00:13:20,549 --> 00:13:23,135
Ollie Johnston,
Ward Kimball, John

275
00:13:23,219 --> 00:13:27,473
Lounsbery, Les Clark, Milt
Kahl, and my first mentor,

276
00:13:27,556 --> 00:13:28,974
Eric Larson.

277
00:13:29,058 --> 00:13:35,481
And these guys were
individualists who found a way

278
00:13:35,564 --> 00:13:39,818
to sacrifice some of
their individuality

279
00:13:39,902 --> 00:13:42,655
for the sake of
the greater good.

280
00:13:42,738 --> 00:13:46,325
If they were all going to
work together on a project,

281
00:13:46,408 --> 00:13:48,661
be it Snow White and
the Seven Dwarfs,

282
00:13:48,744 --> 00:13:51,997
or Pinocchio, or even
one of the silly symphony

283
00:13:52,081 --> 00:13:56,001
shorts like The Old Mill,
they had to work in harmony.

284
00:13:56,085 --> 00:14:00,339
They had to work toward a
common goal, which can't

285
00:14:00,422 --> 00:14:02,841
have been easy for artists.

286
00:14:02,925 --> 00:14:05,553
When I came to Disney,
the nine old men were still

287
00:14:05,636 --> 00:14:07,054
very much in the trenches.

288
00:14:07,137 --> 00:14:10,015
They were still cranking
out footage every week.

289
00:14:10,099 --> 00:14:13,852
About the only difference I can
say as far as guys like Ollie

290
00:14:13,936 --> 00:14:16,689
and Frank and Milt and
Ward and all the others

291
00:14:16,772 --> 00:14:19,400
is that they were so
good at what they did.

292
00:14:19,483 --> 00:14:21,527
They just knocked
this footage out.

293
00:14:21,610 --> 00:14:24,363
They made it look effortless.

294
00:14:24,446 --> 00:14:25,864
They were that good.

295
00:14:25,948 --> 00:14:29,868
But they were the guys
that did the main character.

296
00:14:29,952 --> 00:14:33,872
So it was like, Milt
Kahl did Cinderella.

297
00:14:33,956 --> 00:14:37,084
Frank and Ollie, they did like
Baloo the bear, and Mowgli.

298
00:14:37,167 --> 00:14:39,211
And they would always
work on characters

299
00:14:39,295 --> 00:14:40,379
that were closely related.

300
00:14:40,462 --> 00:14:42,047
Captain Hook and Mr. Smee.

301
00:14:42,131 --> 00:14:45,384
So these nine old men and some
of them were better at comedy,

302
00:14:45,467 --> 00:14:46,885
some of them were
better at drama,

303
00:14:46,969 --> 00:14:49,597
and girl characters, and guy
characters, and villains.

304
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,725
But whatever their
skill set is, they

305
00:14:52,808 --> 00:14:56,729
represented the top
stars for Walt Disney

306
00:14:56,812 --> 00:14:58,063
in those early eras.

307
00:14:58,147 --> 00:15:00,566
And they were the
ones that ended up

308
00:15:00,649 --> 00:15:02,901
training the next generation.

309
00:15:02,985 --> 00:15:06,071
They handed down the
legacy of Disney Animation.

310
00:15:06,155 --> 00:15:12,911
Eric Larson was my mentor
and what a wonderful man.

311
00:15:12,995 --> 00:15:19,918
He was kind and
grandfatherly, yet very firm

312
00:15:20,002 --> 00:15:22,796
about how you go
about doing this.

313
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,925
And I was so overwhelmed
with the idea of what it

314
00:15:27,009 --> 00:15:29,762
took to even just flip paper.

315
00:15:29,845 --> 00:15:32,598
I got sick that first
week because it was just,

316
00:15:32,681 --> 00:15:34,308
oh my gosh, what's going on?

317
00:15:34,391 --> 00:15:35,434
Can I do this?

318
00:15:35,517 --> 00:15:37,770
But Eric was very encouraging.

319
00:15:37,853 --> 00:15:40,439
And he stepped me
through the process.

320
00:15:40,522 --> 00:15:44,151
What he would always ask is,
what are you trying to do here?

321
00:15:44,234 --> 00:15:45,277
What are you trying to say?

322
00:15:45,361 --> 00:15:46,945
What is the character thinking?

323
00:15:47,029 --> 00:15:51,450
And then you explain your
plans and your ideas.

324
00:15:51,533 --> 00:15:54,453
And then he said, "Oh OK.

325
00:15:54,536 --> 00:15:55,788
That's what you have in mind.

326
00:15:55,871 --> 00:15:58,624
Then you don't
need this drawing.

327
00:15:58,707 --> 00:16:00,292
You do need this.

328
00:16:00,376 --> 00:16:01,835
You do need a new drawing."

329
00:16:01,919 --> 00:16:04,463
He would throw in
two or three drawings

330
00:16:04,546 --> 00:16:05,798
that he would sketch out.

331
00:16:05,881 --> 00:16:08,634
And then you would
time this whole thing

332
00:16:08,717 --> 00:16:11,470
and film it and it was magical.

333
00:16:11,553 --> 00:16:12,971
It worked.

334
00:16:13,055 --> 00:16:16,141
We wouldn't even approach
animators that first year we

335
00:16:16,225 --> 00:16:17,142
were at Disney.

336
00:16:17,226 --> 00:16:18,477
We wouldn't even
talk to an animator

337
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,479
because they were
like gods to us.

338
00:16:20,562 --> 00:16:27,486
I worked with Milt Kahl on
his most favorite character,

339
00:16:27,569 --> 00:16:28,696
which was Medusa.

340
00:16:28,779 --> 00:16:31,990
And he had more fun
with that character when

341
00:16:32,074 --> 00:16:34,326
she pulls off her eyelashes.

342
00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:35,661
I don't know.

343
00:16:35,744 --> 00:16:37,037
He just really had fun
with that character

344
00:16:37,121 --> 00:16:39,331
and it was a joy
to work with him.

345
00:16:39,415 --> 00:16:42,167
When I started at Disney, Eric
Larson, one of the nine old men

346
00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:43,877
who had animated on
Snow White and that,

347
00:16:43,961 --> 00:16:46,171
literally would take a piece
of paper and put it over yours

348
00:16:46,255 --> 00:16:47,172
and draw over that.

349
00:16:47,256 --> 00:16:48,841
You had a one on one
experience of somebody

350
00:16:48,924 --> 00:16:51,176
who had spent years
honing his craft.

351
00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:53,846
I do think animation
we learned quickly

352
00:16:53,929 --> 00:16:57,182
was best taught as a sort of a
master apprentice type thing.

353
00:16:57,266 --> 00:17:01,019
I think the big guys,
the veterans, the masters,

354
00:17:01,103 --> 00:17:04,690
I think they suffered as much
as we did because keep in mind,

355
00:17:04,772 --> 00:17:07,192
even though these guys
were experienced animators,

356
00:17:07,276 --> 00:17:10,028
they had their moments too
when things didn't work out

357
00:17:10,112 --> 00:17:12,030
as well as they had expected.

358
00:17:12,114 --> 00:17:14,366
Now, I must say that,
for the most part,

359
00:17:14,450 --> 00:17:17,035
these guys knew they were
good but every now and then,

360
00:17:17,118 --> 00:17:18,369
they would push themselves.

361
00:17:18,454 --> 00:17:19,704
Frank would try something.

362
00:17:19,788 --> 00:17:21,205
Milt would try something.

363
00:17:21,290 --> 00:17:24,710
And if it worked, then
they were just delighted

364
00:17:24,792 --> 00:17:26,712
but they also pushed themselves.

365
00:17:26,795 --> 00:17:28,714
They didn't rest
on their laurels.

366
00:17:28,797 --> 00:17:31,216
They were always trying
to push the boundaries,

367
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:33,719
trying to be better
than they were.

368
00:17:33,802 --> 00:17:39,767
So working side by side,
that's where we grow.

369
00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:43,729
As iron sharpens iron,
one man sharpens another,

370
00:17:43,812 --> 00:17:46,732
one woman sharpens another.

371
00:17:46,815 --> 00:17:50,778
It's the friction of learning.

372
00:17:50,861 --> 00:17:53,906
Eric Larson, I would
present him problems that

373
00:17:53,989 --> 00:17:57,743
were when only you
would present me with,

374
00:17:57,826 --> 00:17:59,119
and it was as
close as I ever saw

375
00:17:59,203 --> 00:18:02,414
to Eric getting
angry because but he

376
00:18:02,498 --> 00:18:04,082
would sit down with this.

377
00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:04,917
"All right.

378
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,085
I'm going to figure this out."

379
00:18:06,168 --> 00:18:09,254
And there's this
joy to learning.

380
00:18:09,338 --> 00:18:12,424
Walt Disney was a
pioneer in many ways

381
00:18:12,508 --> 00:18:17,596
and recognized what was
possible with this art form.

382
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:19,932
That there really was
an unlimited ceiling

383
00:18:20,015 --> 00:18:21,475
to what could be done.

384
00:18:21,558 --> 00:18:24,937
But he had to push boundaries
with rather analog approaches.

385
00:18:25,020 --> 00:18:27,981
And indeed, he did
with early, very

386
00:18:28,065 --> 00:18:30,943
basic technological advances.

387
00:18:31,026 --> 00:18:35,280
He even advanced with the
multiplane camera and later

388
00:18:35,364 --> 00:18:36,615
xerography.

389
00:18:36,698 --> 00:18:39,117
There were other studios that
were working in these areas

390
00:18:39,201 --> 00:18:43,789
as well, but he recognized in
order to keep the medium fresh,

391
00:18:43,872 --> 00:18:45,999
there needed to be advances.

392
00:18:46,083 --> 00:18:48,627
The advent of color
and where women's

393
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:51,004
roles expanded in animation.

394
00:18:51,088 --> 00:18:53,173
I think people would
be surprised to know

395
00:18:53,257 --> 00:18:58,178
how many women there were
at Disney in the 1950s.

396
00:18:58,262 --> 00:19:01,306
So I think that's something
that young women should bear

397
00:19:01,390 --> 00:19:04,184
in mind because there were
a lot of talented women

398
00:19:04,268 --> 00:19:05,519
who mentored me.

399
00:19:05,602 --> 00:19:08,313
And I'm very grateful for that.

400
00:19:08,397 --> 00:19:11,483
I was putting myself through
school so I needed a job.

401
00:19:11,567 --> 00:19:15,487
And I was fortunate enough
to find out that Disney

402
00:19:15,571 --> 00:19:18,991
was hiring for Sleeping Beauty.

403
00:19:19,074 --> 00:19:21,994
And I went over there
with my meager portfolio.

404
00:19:22,077 --> 00:19:25,163
And they brought me on
as an apprentice working

405
00:19:25,247 --> 00:19:28,333
with six or seven other girls.

406
00:19:28,417 --> 00:19:30,711
And we were in a bullpen
all together, all of us

407
00:19:30,794 --> 00:19:32,170
apprentices.

408
00:19:32,254 --> 00:19:36,842
We had full access to
anybody and a lot of freedom

409
00:19:36,925 --> 00:19:40,012
for a first job in animation.

410
00:19:40,095 --> 00:19:43,682
It was pretty
incredible way to start.

411
00:19:43,765 --> 00:19:45,851
Mary was certainly
a giant at Disney.

412
00:19:45,934 --> 00:19:47,227
Good heavens.

413
00:19:47,311 --> 00:19:50,856
The film she influenced
during her time at Disney,

414
00:19:50,939 --> 00:19:53,025
and she was incredibly prolific.

415
00:19:53,108 --> 00:19:57,362
So Mary Blair, she was
a giant in animation.

416
00:19:57,446 --> 00:19:59,573
She was just incredible.

417
00:19:59,656 --> 00:20:02,868
WEN: After dominating the
animation world for decades,

418
00:20:02,951 --> 00:20:05,871
Disney's lack of
innovation and inability

419
00:20:05,954 --> 00:20:08,206
to keep up with the
times opened the door

420
00:20:08,290 --> 00:20:12,211
for some impressive
competition to step right in.

421
00:20:12,294 --> 00:20:15,047
There were young
people who were keenly

422
00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:19,217
interested in taking
on the mantle of Frank,

423
00:20:19,301 --> 00:20:21,219
and Ollie, and
all of those guys.

424
00:20:21,303 --> 00:20:24,056
But there was no
greater intelligence.

425
00:20:24,139 --> 00:20:30,062
There was no Walt to set a goal.

426
00:20:30,145 --> 00:20:32,064
Where do we want
to go with this?

427
00:20:32,147 --> 00:20:33,565
What do we want to try to do?

428
00:20:33,649 --> 00:20:37,069
What kind of stories do
we want to be telling?

429
00:20:37,152 --> 00:20:39,571
And what's happening
to our audience?

430
00:20:39,655 --> 00:20:41,573
Is our audience changing?

431
00:20:41,657 --> 00:20:43,241
Because it was.

432
00:20:43,325 --> 00:20:47,079
We had a cultural, social
revolution in the late '60s,

433
00:20:47,162 --> 00:20:49,915
early '70s that was
reflected everywhere

434
00:20:49,998 --> 00:20:52,125
but perhaps the
Walt Disney studio.

435
00:20:52,209 --> 00:20:55,087
Easy Rider changed
the entire motion

436
00:20:55,170 --> 00:20:58,924
picture industry, except
that the Walt Disney studio.

437
00:20:59,007 --> 00:21:03,470
It's no one's fault. It's
just they were out of step

438
00:21:03,553 --> 00:21:07,599
and there was no one
to put them on a course

439
00:21:07,683 --> 00:21:08,934
that everyone could agree on.

440
00:21:09,017 --> 00:21:11,436
Don Bluth, he's a pretty
amazing success story.

441
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,271
I knew who Don Bluth was.

442
00:21:13,355 --> 00:21:16,441
Most kids didn't, there was
no internet but that was huge.

443
00:21:16,525 --> 00:21:18,944
Because you had a Disney
animator who drew in the Disney

444
00:21:19,027 --> 00:21:22,280
style stepping outside
the system and going like,

445
00:21:22,364 --> 00:21:23,782
"I think I could
do it elsewhere.

446
00:21:23,865 --> 00:21:25,784
I don't need them.

447
00:21:25,867 --> 00:21:28,829
When we left Disney
Studios in '79, it

448
00:21:28,912 --> 00:21:31,665
was a scary
situation and equally

449
00:21:31,748 --> 00:21:33,291
exhilarating and exciting.

450
00:21:33,375 --> 00:21:36,128
Those two elements,
they're just propelled

451
00:21:36,211 --> 00:21:42,134
us into our first feature film
together, The Secret of NIMH.

452
00:21:42,217 --> 00:21:44,970
I must tell you about NIMH.

453
00:21:45,053 --> 00:21:46,221
Look there.

454
00:21:49,224 --> 00:21:51,351
It was a crazy
brave thing to do.

455
00:21:51,435 --> 00:21:54,855
And I know that many of
my younger colleagues

456
00:21:54,938 --> 00:21:56,815
that I've worked
with, that movie

457
00:21:56,898 --> 00:21:59,192
inspired them to
get into animation,

458
00:21:59,276 --> 00:22:02,362
which I really I'm so pleased.

459
00:22:02,446 --> 00:22:06,324
Mavericks, renegades who are
happy to push at the system

460
00:22:06,408 --> 00:22:09,327
and see how far they
can take their own art.

461
00:22:09,411 --> 00:22:13,165
Starting within the system and
taking their art outside of it

462
00:22:13,248 --> 00:22:16,543
for their own benefit as opposed
to just working for somebody

463
00:22:16,626 --> 00:22:20,505
else is in the creative DNA
of every indie filmmaker,

464
00:22:20,589 --> 00:22:21,840
I would say.

465
00:22:21,923 --> 00:22:24,176
Sadly enough, it didn't do
very well at the Box Office.

466
00:22:24,259 --> 00:22:26,553
And that summer, we
were up against ET,

467
00:22:26,636 --> 00:22:29,347
the extra-terrestrial
which everybody saw.

468
00:22:29,431 --> 00:22:32,559
They saw no other
movie except ET.

469
00:22:32,642 --> 00:22:36,021
The irony there is that
one of the greatest

470
00:22:36,104 --> 00:22:40,025
fans for The Secret of
NIMH was Steven Spielberg.

471
00:22:40,108 --> 00:22:42,027
He came and visited
us at our studio

472
00:22:42,110 --> 00:22:45,363
and said, "Guys,
your film is amazing.

473
00:22:45,447 --> 00:22:48,867
I thought that type of
animation storytelling was dead.

474
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:52,537
I haven't seen anything like
that since Pinocchio or Bambi.

475
00:22:52,621 --> 00:22:53,705
It was phenomenal."

476
00:22:53,789 --> 00:22:55,040
He loved the minutia.

477
00:22:55,123 --> 00:22:57,542
He loved all of
the little details

478
00:22:57,626 --> 00:23:00,545
that we put in with
sparkles, and dewdrops,

479
00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:01,880
and animation effects.

480
00:23:01,963 --> 00:23:05,384
Everything that we poured
our hearts in artistically,

481
00:23:05,467 --> 00:23:08,428
he picked up on and he loved it.

482
00:23:08,512 --> 00:23:09,554
I remember it well.

483
00:23:09,638 --> 00:23:11,556
Somebody had to run
to Jerry's Deli.

484
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:12,432
What does he like?

485
00:23:12,516 --> 00:23:14,059
What does he want?

486
00:23:14,142 --> 00:23:18,230
But it was just, oh
my goodness, this well

487
00:23:18,313 --> 00:23:21,066
known director is here
looking at our work

488
00:23:21,149 --> 00:23:22,901
and really enjoying it.

489
00:23:22,984 --> 00:23:28,281
But yes, it moved on
with an American tail.

490
00:23:28,365 --> 00:23:30,450
It's about a little
family of Russian mice

491
00:23:30,534 --> 00:23:34,246
that immigrate from Europe to
the United States to New York

492
00:23:34,329 --> 00:23:37,582
just as they're finishing
the Statue of Liberty.

493
00:23:37,666 --> 00:23:38,750
Perfect.

494
00:23:38,834 --> 00:23:41,086
Won't it be nice
to get to America

495
00:23:41,169 --> 00:23:44,131
where we don't have to
worry about cats anymore?

496
00:23:44,214 --> 00:23:45,590
We had landed.

497
00:23:45,674 --> 00:23:48,093
We were on the map making
a movie with that kind

498
00:23:48,176 --> 00:23:54,099
of support and the talent.

499
00:23:54,182 --> 00:23:56,810
James Horner, and Score,
and Linda Ronstadt.

500
00:23:56,893 --> 00:23:58,937
It was wonderful.

501
00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:01,606
It was wonderful
working in collaboration

502
00:24:01,690 --> 00:24:03,275
with Steven Spielberg.

503
00:24:03,358 --> 00:24:06,444
All the studios began thinking
we've got to get into that.

504
00:24:06,528 --> 00:24:09,447
We've got to jump in with
our own animation studio

505
00:24:09,531 --> 00:24:11,950
and compete because
that makes money.

506
00:24:12,033 --> 00:24:14,286
And that changed
the whole complexion

507
00:24:14,369 --> 00:24:19,791
of not just domestic animation,
but worldwide animation.

508
00:24:19,875 --> 00:24:21,459
I think, the
lover of animation,

509
00:24:21,543 --> 00:24:23,295
it was the first time
where we were like,

510
00:24:23,378 --> 00:24:25,672
oh, something's happening.

511
00:24:25,755 --> 00:24:28,800
Something magical is
happening over there.

512
00:24:28,884 --> 00:24:32,471
WEN: We were embarking
upon the second golden age

513
00:24:32,554 --> 00:24:34,139
of 2D animation.

514
00:24:34,222 --> 00:24:36,141
It was exciting
and groundbreaking,

515
00:24:36,224 --> 00:24:39,644
and connected deeply with
a whole new generation

516
00:24:39,728 --> 00:24:41,813
of both kids and adults.

517
00:24:41,897 --> 00:24:45,650
A resetting and recalibration
of the executive command

518
00:24:45,734 --> 00:24:47,194
at Disney happened.

519
00:24:47,277 --> 00:24:51,656
The old regime was removed
and replaced with Roy Disney.

520
00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:53,325
I don't think it's
an exaggeration

521
00:24:53,408 --> 00:24:59,164
to say that Roy Edward Disney
saved animation, and helped

522
00:24:59,247 --> 00:25:00,999
reinvent and redefine it.

523
00:25:01,082 --> 00:25:05,670
And that's the premise of Don
Juan's wonderful documentary,

524
00:25:05,754 --> 00:25:07,005
Waking Sleeping Beauty.

525
00:25:07,088 --> 00:25:12,385
And here finally was someone
in the person of Howard Ashman,

526
00:25:12,469 --> 00:25:15,180
the brilliant
lyricist and Broadway

527
00:25:15,263 --> 00:25:19,184
trained talent who gave
everyone a direction.

528
00:25:19,267 --> 00:25:21,686
Gave everyone a goal
and a path to follow.

529
00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:24,898
And who would have dreamed that
it was the Broadway Musical,

530
00:25:24,981 --> 00:25:31,196
the form of the Broadway
musical that would redefine

531
00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:34,074
what Disney Animation could be.

532
00:25:34,157 --> 00:25:39,537
I remember when we went
to see Little Mermaid.

533
00:25:39,621 --> 00:25:42,374
And it was like,
oh, suddenly they

534
00:25:42,457 --> 00:25:46,044
had this formula where
it's, oh the animation

535
00:25:46,127 --> 00:25:47,545
looks like Disney.

536
00:25:47,629 --> 00:25:49,089
And they're all singing songs
and the songs are singable.

537
00:25:49,172 --> 00:25:50,382
And this is fun.

538
00:25:50,465 --> 00:25:51,883
So those songs are
classics and it's

539
00:25:51,967 --> 00:25:55,887
just the epitome of really
great Broadway songwriting.

540
00:25:55,971 --> 00:25:57,389
And I mean, there
are some people

541
00:25:57,472 --> 00:25:59,891
who say it's the last
great Broadway songwriting.

542
00:25:59,975 --> 00:26:05,730
And that was the rebirth
of the Disney animated epic.

543
00:26:05,814 --> 00:26:09,442
There are chapters
with every studio.

544
00:26:09,526 --> 00:26:16,741
And there has to be a continuum
of energy, and new ideas,

545
00:26:16,825 --> 00:26:18,076
and what have you.

546
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:21,413
And it was starting
to happen back

547
00:26:21,496 --> 00:26:23,248
at Disney with Little Mermaid.

548
00:26:23,331 --> 00:26:25,583
And we knew what was going on.

549
00:26:25,667 --> 00:26:29,254
Little Mermaid, that
was the, it's back.

550
00:26:29,337 --> 00:26:32,924
Whatever the magic that we
lost, it's now fully back.

551
00:26:33,008 --> 00:26:35,760
And you could see
the confidence.

552
00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:40,432
And you could see this artistry
that acknowledged the past

553
00:26:40,515 --> 00:26:42,309
but was creating their own path.

554
00:26:42,392 --> 00:26:44,436
They call the
'90s and the 2000

555
00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:47,772
the second golden age or the
new renaissance of animation.

556
00:26:47,856 --> 00:26:48,773
And it really was.

557
00:26:48,857 --> 00:26:52,610
And why I think it
was the nine old men

558
00:26:52,694 --> 00:26:56,114
had passed on what
they learned making

559
00:26:56,197 --> 00:26:57,949
those classic Disney films.

560
00:26:58,033 --> 00:27:02,620
And they'd pass it on to
that second generation.

561
00:27:02,704 --> 00:27:04,956
And that second
generation, right

562
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,793
around the '90s and the
2000s were getting good.

563
00:27:08,877 --> 00:27:11,338
We were all just super
excited at the time to be

564
00:27:11,421 --> 00:27:12,964
working on a series of films.

565
00:27:13,048 --> 00:27:16,343
By that point, people started
to realize that we were working

566
00:27:16,426 --> 00:27:19,346
on a series of films
which were doing well

567
00:27:19,429 --> 00:27:20,972
and people were
really responding to.

568
00:27:21,056 --> 00:27:23,641
Back at the beginning of that
period like Little Mermaid,

569
00:27:23,725 --> 00:27:27,645
everyone was more like, "We just
have to keep this thing going."

570
00:27:27,729 --> 00:27:30,190
We were trying to do a movie
that would please ourselves

571
00:27:30,273 --> 00:27:31,816
and you never know.

572
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:33,985
It's amazing and I didn't think
you 30 years after we made

573
00:27:34,069 --> 00:27:36,988
Little Mermaid that there
would be people and little kids

574
00:27:37,072 --> 00:27:38,490
discovering the movie.

575
00:27:38,573 --> 00:27:40,825
But they're doing what I did
with Pinocchio which is great.

576
00:27:40,909 --> 00:27:43,703
I saw Pinocchio and I had
no idea it was from 20 years

577
00:27:43,787 --> 00:27:46,498
before I saw it in a
theater that had been made.

578
00:27:46,581 --> 00:27:49,334
I think at the
time, many of us

579
00:27:49,417 --> 00:27:53,004
animators, we had no
idea that we were living

580
00:27:53,088 --> 00:27:54,339
through the second golden age.

581
00:27:54,422 --> 00:27:56,174
That's the kind
of thing you don't

582
00:27:56,257 --> 00:27:57,675
know until you look back on.

583
00:27:57,759 --> 00:28:00,011
Competition breeds excellence.

584
00:28:00,095 --> 00:28:04,849
So I think us leaving,
having a competition out

585
00:28:04,933 --> 00:28:07,685
there is what helped this
animation renaissance

586
00:28:07,769 --> 00:28:09,354
that Disney was experiencing.

587
00:28:09,437 --> 00:28:13,358
So they had the character
design as a given.

588
00:28:13,441 --> 00:28:18,405
But what they did with it
was new, and inventive,

589
00:28:18,488 --> 00:28:20,698
and crowd pleasing.

590
00:28:20,782 --> 00:28:23,410
The stories are relatable,
the characters are relatable.

591
00:28:23,493 --> 00:28:25,370
You can project
yourself into the story.

592
00:28:25,453 --> 00:28:27,705
The conflicts that
are universal.

593
00:28:27,789 --> 00:28:29,874
A kid dealing with an
overprotective parent.

594
00:28:29,958 --> 00:28:31,543
Is that story ever
going to get old?

595
00:28:31,626 --> 00:28:32,877
We didn't invent that story.

596
00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:34,712
That story has been around
for thousands of years.

597
00:28:34,796 --> 00:28:36,423
It's part of the
nature of growing up.

598
00:28:36,506 --> 00:28:38,383
I think the stories in
the '90s that we did,

599
00:28:38,466 --> 00:28:41,553
they tapped into
universal classic ideas

600
00:28:41,636 --> 00:28:43,054
that don't go away.

601
00:28:43,138 --> 00:28:46,724
Well, I got to say the thing
that I love about animation

602
00:28:46,808 --> 00:28:50,103
is animating
characters that believe

603
00:28:50,186 --> 00:28:52,564
the impossible is possible.

604
00:28:52,647 --> 00:28:57,777
Ariel wanting to walk on land.

605
00:28:57,861 --> 00:28:59,362
I want more.

606
00:29:02,365 --> 00:29:03,741
Beast thinking
that somebody could

607
00:29:03,825 --> 00:29:11,291
see past the ugly exterior
and see somebody to love.

608
00:29:11,374 --> 00:29:14,085
I thought I saw,
and when we touched

609
00:29:14,169 --> 00:29:17,088
she didn't shudder at my part.

610
00:29:17,172 --> 00:29:18,923
I find that fascinating.

611
00:29:19,007 --> 00:29:20,258
It's seeing beyond.

612
00:29:20,341 --> 00:29:21,926
I was a brand new animator.

613
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:24,929
I wasn't very good, but
I was working hard at it.

614
00:29:25,013 --> 00:29:28,933
And it was time to work
on Beauty and the Beast.

615
00:29:29,017 --> 00:29:31,936
And Glenn was
animating the beast.

616
00:29:32,020 --> 00:29:35,648
Animator by the name of Mark
Henn was animating Belle.

617
00:29:35,732 --> 00:29:38,443
And he asked me if I would
be the Florida beast guy.

618
00:29:38,526 --> 00:29:39,611
And so I said, "OK."

619
00:29:39,694 --> 00:29:40,778
But I was really nervous.

620
00:29:40,862 --> 00:29:42,489
The beast is a
complex character.

621
00:29:42,572 --> 00:29:46,284
He's a main character of
the film and I was 21 or 22,

622
00:29:46,367 --> 00:29:49,496
and really not that
good but eager.

623
00:29:49,579 --> 00:29:50,997
And one of the great
things about Glenn

624
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,292
is not only his abilities
and all of that,

625
00:29:54,375 --> 00:29:55,793
but his generosity.

626
00:29:55,877 --> 00:29:57,837
His generosity of giving you
work that can really make you

627
00:29:57,921 --> 00:29:59,172
shine.

628
00:29:59,255 --> 00:30:02,133
And I remember he gave me this
sequence in the film where

629
00:30:02,217 --> 00:30:04,344
beast is being
bandaged by Belle,

630
00:30:04,427 --> 00:30:06,012
but he gave me the
whole sequence.

631
00:30:06,095 --> 00:30:09,807
And I remember looking at
this going, "I can't do this.

632
00:30:09,891 --> 00:30:10,642
I can't do it.

633
00:30:10,725 --> 00:30:12,310
This is not going to happen."

634
00:30:12,393 --> 00:30:13,645
And I was so scared.

635
00:30:13,728 --> 00:30:15,146
And that's the other
thing he always did.

636
00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:19,651
Is he always had faith in all
of us that worked with him.

637
00:30:19,734 --> 00:30:23,363
Over the span of
time, you'd be here

638
00:30:23,446 --> 00:30:25,365
and he'd bring you up to here.

639
00:30:25,448 --> 00:30:27,033
Now, hold still.

640
00:30:27,116 --> 00:30:28,201
This might sting a little.

641
00:30:28,284 --> 00:30:29,160
Hmm?

642
00:30:29,244 --> 00:30:31,496
[groans]

643
00:30:31,579 --> 00:30:35,917
By the way, thank
you for saving my life.

644
00:30:40,588 --> 00:30:41,548
You're welcome.

645
00:30:41,631 --> 00:30:43,174
We worked on
Beauty and the Beast

646
00:30:43,258 --> 00:30:46,678
and that got an Academy Award
nomination for the first time.

647
00:30:46,761 --> 00:30:48,846
No other animated film
had ever gotten that.

648
00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:52,350
And here are the nominees
for the best picture.

649
00:30:52,433 --> 00:30:55,186
Beauty and the Beast,
Don Hahn producer.

650
00:30:55,270 --> 00:30:59,232
[clapping]

651
00:30:59,315 --> 00:31:01,192
And that was a big
deal at the time.

652
00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:06,948
Well deserved but that sent
a panic through the academy.

653
00:31:09,951 --> 00:31:11,411
And some people
thought this was

654
00:31:11,494 --> 00:31:17,375
going to open all sorts of doors
but the academy closed ranks.

655
00:31:17,458 --> 00:31:19,252
We don't want the
animated films to be

656
00:31:19,335 --> 00:31:23,590
competing directly head to
head with live action movies.

657
00:31:23,673 --> 00:31:25,883
They have their place
and we love them,

658
00:31:25,967 --> 00:31:27,552
but they have their place.

659
00:31:27,635 --> 00:31:29,053
We didn't make it.

660
00:31:29,137 --> 00:31:31,889
We lost that, but we got
a Golden Globe that year.

661
00:31:31,973 --> 00:31:35,101
And then Aladdin comes out and
it got really huge acclaim.

662
00:31:35,184 --> 00:31:37,770
Robin Williams, and the
genie, and all of that.

663
00:31:37,854 --> 00:31:40,565
But then we make this
little movie, Lion King.

664
00:31:40,648 --> 00:31:43,234
The Lion King may
have the last roar.

665
00:31:43,318 --> 00:31:46,070
Beauty and the Beast and
Aladdin breathed new life

666
00:31:46,154 --> 00:31:47,071
into the Disney Kingdom.

667
00:31:47,155 --> 00:31:50,074
I remember how
massive that movie was.

668
00:31:50,158 --> 00:31:53,244
And the night that we
went to see Lion King ,

669
00:31:53,328 --> 00:31:54,412
we didn't go to a matinee.

670
00:31:54,495 --> 00:31:56,247
We went at night, 7:00 at night.

671
00:31:56,331 --> 00:31:57,790
Sold the [bleep] out.

672
00:31:57,874 --> 00:32:00,627
That had never happened
before for a cartoon movie.

673
00:32:00,710 --> 00:32:03,588
It really was the
movie that brought

674
00:32:03,671 --> 00:32:05,423
adults into the theaters.

675
00:32:05,506 --> 00:32:06,799
They were coming in droves.

676
00:32:06,883 --> 00:32:09,260
They were happy to come
back over and over again

677
00:32:09,344 --> 00:32:10,428
with their kids.

678
00:32:10,511 --> 00:32:12,096
And so that's why that blew up.

679
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:14,265
That's why it became
$1 billion film.

680
00:32:14,349 --> 00:32:15,433
Circle of life.

681
00:32:15,516 --> 00:32:16,934
Everybody knew that.

682
00:32:17,018 --> 00:32:20,438
It made us feel OK about
eating animals for a long time.

683
00:32:20,521 --> 00:32:21,814
I'm a vegan now but
when I was a kid,

684
00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:23,608
it was like, wow,
circle of life.

685
00:32:23,691 --> 00:32:25,109
They said it in that movie.

686
00:32:25,193 --> 00:32:28,738
And the Oscar goes to is
Hans Zimmer for the Lion King.

687
00:32:32,533 --> 00:32:35,787
Winner of the Oscar is,

688
00:32:35,870 --> 00:32:36,788
Elton John and Tim Rice.

689
00:32:36,871 --> 00:32:38,873
Can you feel the love tonight?

690
00:32:43,044 --> 00:32:48,675
That officially made animation
this second golden age.

691
00:32:48,758 --> 00:32:50,802
It was official at that
point, when you had

692
00:32:50,885 --> 00:32:53,012
a more than $1 billion film.

693
00:32:53,096 --> 00:32:56,808
It was an animation boom and
it was all because of money.

694
00:32:56,891 --> 00:33:00,478
Animation directors
suddenly had agents.

695
00:33:00,561 --> 00:33:03,314
Everything about the
business changed.

696
00:33:03,398 --> 00:33:09,987
Simultaneously, television
animation enjoyed a rebirth.

697
00:33:10,071 --> 00:33:13,825
Steven Spielberg gave it a
kick in the right direction

698
00:33:13,908 --> 00:33:18,329
with Tiny Toon and Animaniacs,
and demanded a certain level

699
00:33:18,413 --> 00:33:23,167
of quality that no one had seen
in television animation before.

700
00:33:23,251 --> 00:33:28,673
Followed by The Simpsons
where again, it was not just

701
00:33:28,756 --> 00:33:30,174
the quality of the animation.

702
00:33:30,258 --> 00:33:32,677
In fact, barely the
quality of the animation.

703
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,681
The quality of the
timing of the animation

704
00:33:36,764 --> 00:33:39,016
too great script writing.

705
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:43,730
I will never forget watching
the first Simpsons carton show.

706
00:33:43,813 --> 00:33:47,859
And Marge Simpson going--

707
00:33:47,942 --> 00:33:49,026
Do you hear that?

708
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:49,569
What dear?

709
00:33:49,652 --> 00:33:50,903
The punching bag.

710
00:33:50,987 --> 00:33:52,530
They're just playing, Homer.

711
00:33:52,613 --> 00:33:54,365
I can't sleep
with that racket.

712
00:33:54,449 --> 00:33:55,700
Go tell him to knock it off.

713
00:33:55,783 --> 00:33:57,702
I like the punching bag sound.

714
00:33:57,785 --> 00:34:01,372
I like the punching
bag sound destroyed us.

715
00:34:01,456 --> 00:34:04,041
It was literally the funniest
thing we'd ever heard.

716
00:34:04,125 --> 00:34:06,419
It was like watching
the birth of new comedy.

717
00:34:06,502 --> 00:34:11,882
The Simpsons dominated most
of my free time from 1989

718
00:34:11,966 --> 00:34:14,051
I think when it
debuted all the way up

719
00:34:14,135 --> 00:34:18,556
until I made Clerks and
probably a few years past that.

720
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:21,726
That was the cultural
stew that fed

721
00:34:21,809 --> 00:34:24,228
and nourished me before
I went and became

722
00:34:24,312 --> 00:34:27,065
a pop culturist myself.

723
00:34:27,148 --> 00:34:29,609
I was well prepared
and armed because I'd

724
00:34:29,692 --> 00:34:33,446
watched a decade of
Simpsons by the time I was

725
00:34:33,529 --> 00:34:36,741
entering the public discourse.

726
00:34:36,824 --> 00:34:38,242
It teaches you to be quick.

727
00:34:38,326 --> 00:34:39,952
It teaches you what
great writing is.

728
00:34:40,036 --> 00:34:44,581
I attribute a lot of Family
Guy's emergence to everybody

729
00:34:44,665 --> 00:34:45,792
wanted animation.

730
00:34:45,875 --> 00:34:47,085
They wanted exactly
this kind of animation.

731
00:34:47,168 --> 00:34:50,588
So I was pitching at
exactly the right time.

732
00:34:50,670 --> 00:34:52,799
Exactly the right tone of show.

733
00:34:52,882 --> 00:34:56,761
They wanted something that
was going to do for them what

734
00:34:56,844 --> 00:34:58,638
The Simpsons had done
and what King of the Hill

735
00:34:58,721 --> 00:35:00,264
was doing at the time.

736
00:35:00,348 --> 00:35:03,935
Sort of experimenting with
the traditions that we've been

737
00:35:04,018 --> 00:35:07,105
taught, but now taking in
a new generation taking it

738
00:35:07,188 --> 00:35:11,275
a new direction was really
what the '90s and 2000s

739
00:35:11,359 --> 00:35:12,610
were all about.

740
00:35:12,693 --> 00:35:14,445
WEN: And just when
animation seemed

741
00:35:14,529 --> 00:35:18,282
to be taking over the
world with no end in sight,

742
00:35:18,366 --> 00:35:20,952
a new technique
was on the horizon,

743
00:35:21,035 --> 00:35:23,996
computer-generated animation.

744
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,125
No one, especially the
animators themselves,

745
00:35:27,208 --> 00:35:30,962
had any idea how this
would change everything

746
00:35:31,045 --> 00:35:33,130
and change it so quickly.

747
00:35:33,214 --> 00:35:37,802
Right after The Fox and the
Hound, John Lasseter, and I

748
00:35:37,885 --> 00:35:40,346
had gone across
the little whatever

749
00:35:40,429 --> 00:35:43,808
dopey drive there to the
Disney Animation theater there.

750
00:35:43,891 --> 00:35:46,477
And we saw Tron.

751
00:35:46,561 --> 00:35:51,816
They were just doing some
initial experimental animation,

752
00:35:51,899 --> 00:35:53,317
and Bill Kroyer, Jerry Reese.

753
00:35:53,401 --> 00:35:56,320
Who they were working on some
stuff with these light cycles.

754
00:35:56,404 --> 00:36:04,662
And we came back to my office
and sat there just depressed.

755
00:36:04,745 --> 00:36:08,332
Whoa, there's so much dimension.

756
00:36:08,416 --> 00:36:10,334
We just did The
Fox and the Hound

757
00:36:10,418 --> 00:36:15,381
and we had one multi-plane
shot we could use in the movie.

758
00:36:15,464 --> 00:36:20,344
And there, every shot is
multi-plane dimensional.

759
00:36:20,428 --> 00:36:24,557
Wouldn't it be cool if we
could design a little story

760
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:25,850
that could use that.

761
00:36:25,933 --> 00:36:28,019
And so we did this
little Wild Things test

762
00:36:28,102 --> 00:36:31,022
where we designed the
backgrounds to move,

763
00:36:31,105 --> 00:36:35,026
but we knew that we couldn't
do the characters so yet in CG

764
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:36,694
but we could do the backgrounds.

765
00:36:36,777 --> 00:36:38,362
So John worked with
the backgrounds

766
00:36:38,446 --> 00:36:41,365
and I animated the characters,
moving in dimension,

767
00:36:41,449 --> 00:36:44,911
and that was our
first step into CG.

768
00:36:44,994 --> 00:36:47,371
And it was so wonderful.

769
00:36:47,455 --> 00:36:51,083
We wanted to actually propose to
animating Wild Things to Disney

770
00:36:51,167 --> 00:36:54,253
but we couldn't get
the rights to it.

771
00:36:54,337 --> 00:36:58,382
Eventually, John was
fired from Disney.

772
00:36:58,466 --> 00:37:01,719
I don't know what
happened to the guy.

773
00:37:01,802 --> 00:37:03,221
Did something with
Pixar or whatever.

774
00:37:03,304 --> 00:37:08,768
What became Pixar Animation
Studios was originally

775
00:37:08,851 --> 00:37:11,729
an experimental
division of Lucasfilm

776
00:37:11,812 --> 00:37:14,565
and George Lucas and
his friend Steve Jobs

777
00:37:14,649 --> 00:37:20,571
had equal degree of interest
in the possibilities that this

778
00:37:20,655 --> 00:37:23,282
new approach presented to them.

779
00:37:23,366 --> 00:37:25,242
I don't think they
fully envisioned

780
00:37:25,326 --> 00:37:29,246
what it would become, but they
knew there was something there.

781
00:37:29,330 --> 00:37:33,751
I heard about this incredible
group of computer graphics

782
00:37:33,834 --> 00:37:37,421
specialists that George Lucas
had assembled at Lucasfilm,

783
00:37:37,505 --> 00:37:38,923
that he wanted to sell.

784
00:37:39,006 --> 00:37:40,758
And so I went up there and
saw what they were doing

785
00:37:40,841 --> 00:37:46,097
and I met the the leader of
this group, Dr. Ed Catmull.

786
00:37:46,180 --> 00:37:50,142
WEN: In 1972, Ed
Catmull and Fred Parke

787
00:37:50,226 --> 00:37:53,437
created the world's
first 3D rendered

788
00:37:53,521 --> 00:37:58,818
movie, an animated
version of Ed's left hand.

789
00:37:58,901 --> 00:38:01,112
The pioneering
techniques used here

790
00:38:01,195 --> 00:38:03,614
are the basis for
3D rendering we

791
00:38:03,698 --> 00:38:09,829
still do today in video games,
movies, and visual effects.

792
00:38:09,912 --> 00:38:12,999
A film that came out
was Great Mouse Detective.

793
00:38:13,082 --> 00:38:15,626
And there was the
first foray into doing

794
00:38:15,710 --> 00:38:20,131
computer animation in the Big
Ben sequence in that film.

795
00:38:20,214 --> 00:38:24,969
And that was a one
engineer and one animator

796
00:38:25,052 --> 00:38:30,808
in the basement of the
main lot with a computer,

797
00:38:30,891 --> 00:38:34,812
just doing it, not
having any roadmap.

798
00:38:34,895 --> 00:38:36,480
They built the gears
in the computer.

799
00:38:36,564 --> 00:38:41,986
They printed them out
on a sheet feed plotter.

800
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:45,322
Hand fed the 24 field paper.

801
00:38:45,406 --> 00:38:47,658
And because our
goal at the time was

802
00:38:47,742 --> 00:38:52,997
we are the legacy of a 60-year
history of 2D animated films,

803
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,332
the real design
goal is that this

804
00:38:55,416 --> 00:38:58,169
needs to blend in seamlessly.

805
00:38:58,252 --> 00:39:01,839
You can't tell how this is
done to celebrate the Walt

806
00:39:01,922 --> 00:39:03,507
Disney traditional medium.

807
00:39:03,591 --> 00:39:06,677
So it was printed on
paper, Xerox on cels,

808
00:39:06,761 --> 00:39:09,013
hand-painted, shot
at our camera,

809
00:39:09,096 --> 00:39:12,850
just like every other
element in the film.

810
00:39:12,933 --> 00:39:16,479
[ticking]

811
00:39:30,284 --> 00:39:32,369
Based on the
success of that film,

812
00:39:32,453 --> 00:39:35,414
they went on to
buy one computer.

813
00:39:35,498 --> 00:39:38,209
And they put it in the
animation department.

814
00:39:38,292 --> 00:39:40,211
It wasn't in the
basement somewhere

815
00:39:40,294 --> 00:39:42,379
with wavefront software.

816
00:39:42,463 --> 00:39:45,549
And like a seed, they
just put it there.

817
00:39:45,633 --> 00:39:48,761
And we had an engineer
and some tech people who

818
00:39:48,844 --> 00:39:52,556
knew how these things operated.

819
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,228
And they started to get the
animators interested in it.

820
00:39:57,311 --> 00:40:00,898
It really was the
Wild West of software,

821
00:40:00,981 --> 00:40:04,944
and technology, and materials.

822
00:40:05,027 --> 00:40:10,074
And literally
grappling and pivoting,

823
00:40:10,157 --> 00:40:13,119
and making it up as you went
along through the course

824
00:40:13,202 --> 00:40:14,495
of this time frame.

825
00:40:17,873 --> 00:40:21,418
Technology is always a
tool to serve the art form.

826
00:40:21,502 --> 00:40:24,755
And in many cases
in the trajectory

827
00:40:24,839 --> 00:40:29,093
of animation history, technology
was there to save costs.

828
00:40:29,176 --> 00:40:31,095
In order to keep
the industry alive,

829
00:40:31,178 --> 00:40:33,764
you have that
example in everything

830
00:40:33,848 --> 00:40:39,937
from xerography, where it
helped the cost of having

831
00:40:40,020 --> 00:40:42,606
an entire division
of hundreds of inkers

832
00:40:42,690 --> 00:40:46,318
taking hours and hours to
carefully hand ink cels

833
00:40:46,402 --> 00:40:48,320
which was incredible artistry.

834
00:40:48,404 --> 00:40:50,948
But suddenly when you
have several Xerox cameras

835
00:40:51,031 --> 00:40:53,325
and teams working,
you could accomplish

836
00:40:53,409 --> 00:40:56,120
close to 1,000 cels a day.

837
00:40:56,203 --> 00:41:00,124
A single anchor might
get about 15 or 20 cels

838
00:41:00,207 --> 00:41:02,126
done a day if they were fast.

839
00:41:02,209 --> 00:41:04,295
So it was a tremendous
cost savings.

840
00:41:04,378 --> 00:41:05,963
Ink and paint was
one of the largest

841
00:41:06,046 --> 00:41:07,464
departments in our pipeline.

842
00:41:07,548 --> 00:41:11,302
They had been developing a
digital ink and paint system

843
00:41:11,385 --> 00:41:14,305
called CAPS, computer
animation production system,

844
00:41:14,388 --> 00:41:16,807
to scan, and paint,
and composite.

845
00:41:16,891 --> 00:41:20,311
And we used The Little
Mermaid, the last shot

846
00:41:20,394 --> 00:41:22,980
of the film to test it out.

847
00:41:23,063 --> 00:41:26,233
[music playing]

848
00:41:32,907 --> 00:41:37,995
And from then on, we
integrated it in every film

849
00:41:38,078 --> 00:41:39,496
after that.

850
00:41:39,580 --> 00:41:45,836
When that technology was
offered to the Disney Animation

851
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,506
studio, they were intrigued.

852
00:41:49,590 --> 00:41:53,719
The younger element, the younger
minds there were intrigued

853
00:41:53,802 --> 00:41:59,850
and they adopted it for the
magic carpet in Aladdin.

854
00:41:59,934 --> 00:42:01,685
And being a part of
the process like that,

855
00:42:01,769 --> 00:42:04,521
it really helped tell
the story about our--

856
00:42:04,605 --> 00:42:06,690
because we did become
part of the problem

857
00:42:06,774 --> 00:42:10,027
solving where they might
come like in Aladdin,

858
00:42:10,110 --> 00:42:11,195
the tiger's head.

859
00:42:11,278 --> 00:42:13,405
It's going to rise
up out of the ground,

860
00:42:13,489 --> 00:42:15,241
and it's going to
be this big thing.

861
00:42:15,324 --> 00:42:18,911
The computer animators
and designers could then

862
00:42:18,994 --> 00:42:22,039
be involved and say, "Well,
you know what you can do,

863
00:42:22,122 --> 00:42:24,250
is we could build
it in the computer,

864
00:42:24,333 --> 00:42:26,877
and we could render
it like sand."

865
00:42:26,961 --> 00:42:29,463
[wind blowing]

866
00:42:36,136 --> 00:42:39,723
We were the only ones who
were doing this integration

867
00:42:39,807 --> 00:42:43,394
and it was a wonderful design
challenge, like the ballroom

868
00:42:43,477 --> 00:42:44,561
in Beauty and the Beast.

869
00:42:44,645 --> 00:42:47,231
It was an added
story element and it

870
00:42:47,314 --> 00:42:49,400
had to be designed
so that it wouldn't

871
00:42:49,483 --> 00:42:51,277
trigger you out of the story.

872
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:52,569
It's like, "Oh my God.

873
00:42:52,653 --> 00:42:53,237
What's that?

874
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,738
It's 3D."

875
00:42:54,822 --> 00:43:01,745
This idea of incorporating
technology into this art form

876
00:43:01,829 --> 00:43:06,083
that an entire company had
been built around for decades

877
00:43:06,166 --> 00:43:07,585
was a little intimidating.

878
00:43:07,668 --> 00:43:11,755
And the powers that be made
the careful decision, perhaps

879
00:43:11,839 --> 00:43:15,259
wisely at the time,
to keep this idea

880
00:43:15,342 --> 00:43:16,927
of digital technology quiet.

881
00:43:17,011 --> 00:43:19,763
It was very important
that word did not get out

882
00:43:19,847 --> 00:43:23,642
that Disney, the home of
this great classic library

883
00:43:23,726 --> 00:43:28,272
of animation, was
moving into computers.

884
00:43:28,355 --> 00:43:30,649
But it was the great
success of The Lion King.

885
00:43:30,733 --> 00:43:32,776
They had proved
themselves over many years

886
00:43:32,860 --> 00:43:36,447
and many films as more
and more digital elements

887
00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:41,785
were being integrated that, OK,
audiences are ready to learn

888
00:43:41,869 --> 00:43:43,620
how we made this magic.

889
00:43:43,704 --> 00:43:48,834
Computer animation, to me,
was a way of feeling dimension

890
00:43:48,917 --> 00:43:52,171
and so I've always
embraced it for Tarzan.

891
00:43:52,254 --> 00:43:57,468
I wanted Tarzan to be
surfing on the trees.

892
00:43:57,551 --> 00:44:01,347
With Eric Daniels, we took
a section of a tree, turned

893
00:44:01,430 --> 00:44:06,143
it that way in space so that
I could imagine I'm Tarzan

894
00:44:06,226 --> 00:44:07,978
and he was moving
through the branches.

895
00:44:08,062 --> 00:44:08,979
I said, "OK.

896
00:44:09,063 --> 00:44:10,356
Now, I want to jump over there.

897
00:44:10,439 --> 00:44:11,982
Can you cut that branch
off and put it in space?"

898
00:44:12,066 --> 00:44:15,652
And he did and then I felt like
I could leap over to there.

899
00:44:15,736 --> 00:44:19,323
So we played this whole
action out of Tarzan

900
00:44:19,406 --> 00:44:22,326
and then they printed it
all out and gave it to me

901
00:44:22,409 --> 00:44:25,829
on photostats so I could
be Tarzan in space.

902
00:44:25,913 --> 00:44:30,167
And once again, it was giving
me a freedom to be the way

903
00:44:30,250 --> 00:44:31,710
I was picturing in my head.

904
00:44:31,794 --> 00:44:34,380
When I started working in
the computer animation which we

905
00:44:34,463 --> 00:44:37,549
hadn't really done
much of at school,

906
00:44:37,633 --> 00:44:40,344
I actually told John Lasseter
and everybody up here,

907
00:44:40,427 --> 00:44:41,845
"I don't know anything
about computers."

908
00:44:41,929 --> 00:44:44,181
And they said, "Don't
worry, it's the same thing."

909
00:44:44,264 --> 00:44:45,516
And they were right.

910
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:49,853
But it's different in
that hand-drawn animation,

911
00:44:49,937 --> 00:44:52,189
like I say, you feel
your way through.

912
00:44:52,272 --> 00:44:54,692
You draw it and
you can feel poses.

913
00:44:54,775 --> 00:44:58,195
And you can move from one frame
to another and you just sense.

914
00:44:58,278 --> 00:45:01,198
And you work by
feeling your way out.

915
00:45:01,281 --> 00:45:03,534
And with computers,
what I had to do

916
00:45:03,617 --> 00:45:07,204
is understand that and then
step back and analyze it,

917
00:45:07,287 --> 00:45:09,706
and break it down into levels.

918
00:45:09,790 --> 00:45:12,709
So it was much less intuitive.

919
00:45:12,793 --> 00:45:15,421
It was a little more like taking
apart a lawnmower or something,

920
00:45:15,504 --> 00:45:16,880
which I'm also excited by.

921
00:45:16,964 --> 00:45:19,550
So it was a fun place
to be and to start

922
00:45:19,633 --> 00:45:21,552
to figure out a lot
of stuff that had

923
00:45:21,635 --> 00:45:22,886
never been done at that point.

924
00:45:22,970 --> 00:45:26,390
I remember the first
time I saw a Pixar movie.

925
00:45:26,473 --> 00:45:28,725
Actually, it wasn't
even the whole movie,

926
00:45:28,809 --> 00:45:31,395
the studio was screening
for all of us staff

927
00:45:31,478 --> 00:45:32,730
that were doing 2D animation.

928
00:45:32,813 --> 00:45:34,398
And we were working
on The Lion King.

929
00:45:34,481 --> 00:45:36,233
We were right in the
middle of The Lion King

930
00:45:36,316 --> 00:45:38,569
and they had a screening
of one sequence that was

931
00:45:38,652 --> 00:45:42,448
done by Pixar from Toy Story.

932
00:45:42,531 --> 00:45:43,949
And it was amazing.

933
00:45:44,032 --> 00:45:47,995
[music playing]

934
00:45:51,999 --> 00:45:52,916
Ha.

935
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:53,584
Ha, what are you doing?

936
00:45:53,667 --> 00:45:54,918
I'm Tempus from morph.

937
00:45:55,002 --> 00:45:55,586
Yeah.

938
00:45:55,669 --> 00:45:56,795
What's this button?

939
00:45:56,879 --> 00:45:58,922
And I remember walking
out of the theater

940
00:45:59,006 --> 00:46:00,924
and talking to other
animators as we're

941
00:46:01,008 --> 00:46:03,927
walking back to our desks
to go work on The Lion King.

942
00:46:04,011 --> 00:46:08,599
And I remember saying, "That's
the end of 2D animation."

943
00:46:08,682 --> 00:46:13,604
But when I saw Toy Story man,
I had seen Pixar's Tin Toy was

944
00:46:13,687 --> 00:46:16,482
like, "How do they make
that lamp do that?"

945
00:46:16,565 --> 00:46:18,275
I was blown away.

946
00:46:18,358 --> 00:46:20,652
By the time Toy
Story came, it was

947
00:46:20,736 --> 00:46:23,780
incredible being
thrown into a world

948
00:46:23,864 --> 00:46:26,617
where everything
looked like that.

949
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:29,119
Where it was one
gigantic CG cartoon.

950
00:46:29,203 --> 00:46:31,830
And nowadays, they make
humans that look like humans

951
00:46:31,914 --> 00:46:34,791
but back then, the
toys were easy to nail,

952
00:46:34,875 --> 00:46:37,794
the humans less so
but we didn't notice.

953
00:46:37,878 --> 00:46:40,297
We were all just so
amazed like that's crazy.

954
00:46:40,380 --> 00:46:41,298
Look at the texture on it.

955
00:46:41,381 --> 00:46:42,466
Look at the slinky dog.

956
00:46:42,549 --> 00:46:43,634
Look at Mr. Potato Head.

957
00:46:43,717 --> 00:46:45,302
It all tracks, it all works.

958
00:46:45,385 --> 00:46:46,970
And then you add to
it a wonderful story

959
00:46:47,054 --> 00:46:48,472
and fantastic voices.

960
00:46:48,555 --> 00:46:50,807
And the magic of what they
were able to accomplish

961
00:46:50,891 --> 00:46:54,186
with the animation
is elevated trifold.

962
00:46:54,269 --> 00:46:55,812
Suddenly, you have
an instant classic

963
00:46:55,896 --> 00:46:59,983
that becomes a milestone
in animation history.

964
00:47:00,067 --> 00:47:01,985
Everything changes from
that point forward.

965
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:05,822
When the movie came
out, it was mind blowing.

966
00:47:05,906 --> 00:47:07,491
I'd never seen anything like it.

967
00:47:07,574 --> 00:47:09,493
It was like seeing Jurassic
Park for the first time.

968
00:47:09,576 --> 00:47:13,205
It was just a whole
new kind of filmmaking,

969
00:47:13,288 --> 00:47:15,832
and it was hugely impressive.

970
00:47:15,916 --> 00:47:21,004
I wouldn't call it sort
of a looming specter of CG.

971
00:47:21,088 --> 00:47:22,714
But there was
definitely this sort

972
00:47:22,798 --> 00:47:26,677
of feeling like, gosh, I wonder
how far this is going to go.

973
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,680
And people were
like, "Yeah, what's

974
00:47:29,763 --> 00:47:31,056
going to be like in 10 years."

975
00:47:31,139 --> 00:47:33,392
There was an awareness,
a definite awareness

976
00:47:33,475 --> 00:47:35,686
of what's this going
to be like in 10 years?

977
00:47:35,769 --> 00:47:37,354
Are we going to be here?

978
00:47:37,437 --> 00:47:38,855
Never in a million
years did I think it

979
00:47:38,939 --> 00:47:42,693
would completely eclipse
and devour the art

980
00:47:42,776 --> 00:47:44,528
of hand-drawn animation.

981
00:47:44,611 --> 00:47:48,865
By the end of that screening,
there were jaws dropped

982
00:47:48,949 --> 00:47:55,872
and realizations of, oh my
God, the power of this thing

983
00:47:55,956 --> 00:47:57,040
is too much.

984
00:47:57,124 --> 00:47:59,876
We have to evolve because
that is where it's going,

985
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:04,381
and 2D as it is at that point,
especially at that time,

986
00:48:04,464 --> 00:48:06,884
was starting box
office wise to go down.

987
00:48:06,967 --> 00:48:09,219
It was the magic was
starting to fade,

988
00:48:09,303 --> 00:48:13,724
and I think everybody at
that time went CG animation.

989
00:48:13,807 --> 00:48:15,058
Go.

990
00:48:15,142 --> 00:48:16,768
Now, it took five more
years, probably five to seven

991
00:48:16,852 --> 00:48:19,771
more years for it
actually to come true

992
00:48:19,855 --> 00:48:22,065
but that was the
beginning of the end.

993
00:48:22,149 --> 00:48:25,402
Because they could do
things in CG and it

994
00:48:25,485 --> 00:48:28,405
was so new and
revolutionary at the time.

995
00:48:28,488 --> 00:48:30,240
The subtlety of acting
and performance,

996
00:48:30,324 --> 00:48:33,744
the camera that was moving
it had a more cinematic look,

997
00:48:33,827 --> 00:48:37,414
that I thought, are people going
to continue to see the films

998
00:48:37,497 --> 00:48:39,916
that we produce in
hand-drawn animation

999
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,919
when there's this new technology
that's giving a higher level

1000
00:48:43,003 --> 00:48:44,755
of sophistication animation?

1001
00:48:44,838 --> 00:48:46,131
When the R-Rex
started running down

1002
00:48:46,214 --> 00:48:49,593
the street in Jurassic
Park, we were working

1003
00:48:49,676 --> 00:48:50,927
on Lion King at the time.

1004
00:48:51,011 --> 00:48:52,763
And there really
was a little bit

1005
00:48:52,846 --> 00:48:56,642
of a sense of yep, that's over.

1006
00:48:56,725 --> 00:48:59,770
There was a little bit,
yeah, we're not going to get

1007
00:48:59,853 --> 00:49:02,606
to handle that stuff anymore.

1008
00:49:02,689 --> 00:49:03,607
That's done.

1009
00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:04,775
They were showing a sequence.

1010
00:49:04,858 --> 00:49:05,942
The army man sequence.

1011
00:49:06,026 --> 00:49:08,612
They showed at
Disney in Burbank.

1012
00:49:08,695 --> 00:49:10,447
They almost didn't know
what to make of it.

1013
00:49:10,530 --> 00:49:11,615
And they're like,
"Is this any good?"

1014
00:49:11,698 --> 00:49:13,116
And we're like,
"Are you kidding?"

1015
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,117
This is a riot.

1016
00:49:14,201 --> 00:49:15,452
This is a blast.

1017
00:49:15,535 --> 00:49:17,663
We thought it was very cool that
we thought it was entertaining.

1018
00:49:17,746 --> 00:49:19,790
We thought it was entertaining
to the next level.

1019
00:49:19,873 --> 00:49:23,168
We thought it worked
amazingly well.

1020
00:49:23,251 --> 00:49:25,295
We were all super enthused.

1021
00:49:25,379 --> 00:49:26,797
We did not view it as a threat.

1022
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,300
We just saw it as another way
to make a work of art or a film.

1023
00:49:30,384 --> 00:49:34,471
Just like there's painting and
there's sculpture, that they

1024
00:49:34,554 --> 00:49:35,847
could mutually coexist.

1025
00:49:35,931 --> 00:49:38,350
We did not view it as a
threat that would somehow one

1026
00:49:38,433 --> 00:49:39,518
might replace the other.

1027
00:49:39,601 --> 00:49:41,144
Is this going to
replace hand-drawn?

1028
00:49:41,228 --> 00:49:42,813
And we were like, "No way."

1029
00:49:42,896 --> 00:49:44,648
This is a totally
separate medium.

1030
00:49:44,731 --> 00:49:46,525
It's a separate art form.

1031
00:49:46,608 --> 00:49:49,653
I thought it was more
of a split in the road.

1032
00:49:49,736 --> 00:49:53,490
We have now a whole new
way of producing animation.

1033
00:49:53,573 --> 00:49:55,826
Other people with
different skill sets

1034
00:49:55,909 --> 00:49:56,993
can access animation.

1035
00:49:57,077 --> 00:49:58,370
That's great.
The more, the merrier.

1036
00:49:58,453 --> 00:49:59,830
That's awesome, right?

1037
00:49:59,913 --> 00:50:03,375
So I never assumed that
Hollywood would basically

1038
00:50:03,458 --> 00:50:08,338
consider it not a split but an
evolution, where you had to do

1039
00:50:08,422 --> 00:50:10,006
away with the old ways, right?

1040
00:50:10,090 --> 00:50:13,343
So it was around Treasure
Planet where it was

1041
00:50:13,427 --> 00:50:14,845
very clear what was happening.

1042
00:50:14,928 --> 00:50:17,889
And I remember having a
conversation with John Ripa.

1043
00:50:17,973 --> 00:50:20,726
We were both supervising
characters on that film

1044
00:50:20,809 --> 00:50:24,563
and saying, "Well, this
might be the last one we get

1045
00:50:24,646 --> 00:50:27,357
to make so let's make it count.

1046
00:50:27,441 --> 00:50:28,525
Let's go with a bang."

1047
00:50:28,608 --> 00:50:32,529
And then we went
out with a bomb."

1048
00:50:32,612 --> 00:50:35,031
It covered a few
films, actually.

1049
00:50:35,115 --> 00:50:39,035
A period of DreamWorks and
Jeffrey Katzenberg weaning

1050
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:41,872
themselves off of hand-drawn.

1051
00:50:41,955 --> 00:50:43,707
And I think just for
like box office reasons,

1052
00:50:43,790 --> 00:50:45,917
you know as much as anything
that was the bottom line.

1053
00:50:46,001 --> 00:50:48,712
The cost of making those films
was going higher and higher.

1054
00:50:48,795 --> 00:50:50,714
At the same time, the
box office revenues

1055
00:50:50,797 --> 00:50:52,215
were not necessarily
keeping pace

1056
00:50:52,299 --> 00:50:55,719
with that so that gap was
putting tremendous strains

1057
00:50:55,802 --> 00:50:57,387
on the films.

1058
00:50:57,471 --> 00:51:01,391
All the reasons they gave us
for why we should shift I never

1059
00:51:01,475 --> 00:51:03,059
bought into them.

1060
00:51:03,143 --> 00:51:08,064
They seemed based on very
flawed selective statistics.

1061
00:51:08,148 --> 00:51:11,902
2Ds not doing well,
3D is doing great so

1062
00:51:11,985 --> 00:51:14,237
that means the audiences
don't want to see 2D.

1063
00:51:14,321 --> 00:51:17,741
I was like, "Well, that's a very
selective way to look at it."

1064
00:51:17,824 --> 00:51:19,618
We would have teachers
come in and say,

1065
00:51:19,701 --> 00:51:21,411
"Guys, you've got to shift.

1066
00:51:21,495 --> 00:51:23,079
The world is changing."

1067
00:51:23,163 --> 00:51:26,416
The medium is being blamed for
these movies not doing well.

1068
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:28,752
You're not factoring in
the quality of the stories

1069
00:51:28,835 --> 00:51:30,253
or the innovation.

1070
00:51:30,337 --> 00:51:32,297
Has nothing to do with
the medium, by the way.

1071
00:51:32,380 --> 00:51:36,134
It was rushing the stories and
the stories weren't connecting.

1072
00:51:36,218 --> 00:51:39,304
But people at the top,
especially the money people,

1073
00:51:39,387 --> 00:51:43,767
blame the medium and that I
think broke everybody's heart.

1074
00:51:43,850 --> 00:51:45,811
Well there's
this myth out there

1075
00:51:45,894 --> 00:51:49,606
that 2D animation is it
takes longer to produce,

1076
00:51:49,689 --> 00:51:51,441
and it's more expensive,
and that's largely

1077
00:51:51,525 --> 00:51:53,485
why we don't do it anymore.

1078
00:51:53,568 --> 00:51:55,445
But that is a myth actually.

1079
00:51:55,529 --> 00:51:59,950
I've directed and 2D animated
feature Mulan at Disney,

1080
00:52:00,033 --> 00:52:03,829
but I've also been an animation
supervisor on a CG film,

1081
00:52:03,912 --> 00:52:05,956
Stuart Little 2 over at Sony.

1082
00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:08,959
So I've seen hands-on
from my perspective

1083
00:52:09,042 --> 00:52:10,794
and they're about the same.

1084
00:52:10,877 --> 00:52:12,629
It's just in 2D
animation, you can

1085
00:52:12,712 --> 00:52:14,840
get one drawing of a
character and start

1086
00:52:14,923 --> 00:52:16,299
animating from day one.

1087
00:52:16,383 --> 00:52:19,803
In CG animation, there's
a lot of crafting

1088
00:52:19,886 --> 00:52:21,805
of creating the
model, and the rig,

1089
00:52:21,888 --> 00:52:23,974
and how it's going to
move, and pre-planning

1090
00:52:24,057 --> 00:52:25,350
that goes into the model.

1091
00:52:25,433 --> 00:52:27,143
And then you can animate faster.

1092
00:52:27,227 --> 00:52:29,312
But when you put
them side to side,

1093
00:52:29,396 --> 00:52:31,314
those schedules
are about the same.

1094
00:52:31,398 --> 00:52:33,483
So the time is the
same and really

1095
00:52:33,567 --> 00:52:34,818
the money is the same too.

1096
00:52:34,901 --> 00:52:37,320
You have the same amount
of animators on a 2D film

1097
00:52:37,404 --> 00:52:39,030
as you do on a CG film.

1098
00:52:39,114 --> 00:52:44,160
There's just a swap of different
job titles and technology.

1099
00:52:44,244 --> 00:52:46,663
When DreamWorks
released Shrek,

1100
00:52:46,746 --> 00:52:51,835
it was such an enormous hit that
the rest of the movie industry

1101
00:52:51,918 --> 00:52:55,672
said, "Oh, that's what
we should be doing,

1102
00:52:55,755 --> 00:52:57,841
and we can make
lots of money too.

1103
00:52:57,924 --> 00:53:00,343
And it all ought to be
dimensional animation.

1104
00:53:00,427 --> 00:53:04,681
The heck with this
pencil drawn stuff."

1105
00:53:04,764 --> 00:53:11,688
My contention is that Shrek was
a hit because it was hilarious.

1106
00:53:11,771 --> 00:53:15,525
It was a funny,
funny script enacted

1107
00:53:15,609 --> 00:53:21,865
by really talented people like
Mike Myers and Eddie Murphy.

1108
00:53:21,948 --> 00:53:24,409
And if it had been
animated with matchsticks,

1109
00:53:24,492 --> 00:53:25,869
it would have been a hit.

1110
00:53:25,952 --> 00:53:29,372
It was the content that
made it successful,

1111
00:53:29,456 --> 00:53:34,544
but the money people read
it as it was the look of it

1112
00:53:34,628 --> 00:53:36,046
that people wanted.

1113
00:53:36,129 --> 00:53:41,718
And that old 2D hand-drawn
stuff was out of fashion now.

1114
00:53:41,801 --> 00:53:44,220
Officially, it was over.

1115
00:53:44,304 --> 00:53:45,430
It was over.

1116
00:53:45,513 --> 00:53:51,394
Well, Pixar had been
acquired by Disney in 2005,

1117
00:53:51,478 --> 00:53:57,734
and then slowly they stopped
making the 2D animated films.

1118
00:53:57,817 --> 00:53:59,402
And we were really
sad to see those go.

1119
00:53:59,486 --> 00:54:02,948
I mean, that was a gain for us
to get those people with the 2D

1120
00:54:03,031 --> 00:54:05,408
hand-drawn experience,
and to see how they would

1121
00:54:05,492 --> 00:54:07,744
incorporate that into
their work and we

1122
00:54:07,827 --> 00:54:09,245
can be inspired by that too.

1123
00:54:09,329 --> 00:54:11,247
But it was very
sad to see the way

1124
00:54:11,331 --> 00:54:13,917
that the industry was going.

1125
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,086
The industry was
going away from 2D

1126
00:54:16,169 --> 00:54:22,092
and I felt like that was a
real loss and a mistake too.

1127
00:54:22,175 --> 00:54:25,261
One, what's interesting
is it's a very common belief

1128
00:54:25,345 --> 00:54:28,431
that when computers come
into a new artistic medium,

1129
00:54:28,515 --> 00:54:32,268
there's something is it's
either less expensive,

1130
00:54:32,352 --> 00:54:36,439
takes less time, or it's
going to replace something.

1131
00:54:36,523 --> 00:54:39,275
It reminds me a lot of when
photography was invented.

1132
00:54:39,359 --> 00:54:42,445
Everybody thought that painting
was going to get replaced.

1133
00:54:42,529 --> 00:54:48,159
And what computer animation
does is it has a whole new look,

1134
00:54:48,243 --> 00:54:50,286
but the key word is animation.

1135
00:54:50,370 --> 00:54:52,789
Animation by definition
is making a motion

1136
00:54:52,872 --> 00:54:54,958
picture frame by frame
by frame by frame

1137
00:54:55,041 --> 00:54:56,126
and that doesn't change.

1138
00:54:56,209 --> 00:54:58,128
We labor over
every single frame.

1139
00:54:58,211 --> 00:54:59,963
When we started
on Toy Story, there

1140
00:55:00,046 --> 00:55:01,965
were like four people
in the world who knew

1141
00:55:02,048 --> 00:55:03,299
how to do computer animation.

1142
00:55:03,383 --> 00:55:06,136
And so when we
hired animators, we

1143
00:55:06,219 --> 00:55:10,140
got them largely from hand-drawn
tradition and a number

1144
00:55:10,223 --> 00:55:11,474
of stop motion people.

1145
00:55:11,558 --> 00:55:14,978
And so then we had a
long intensive training

1146
00:55:15,061 --> 00:55:16,354
program where we started.

1147
00:55:16,438 --> 00:55:20,316
And it was not quite as
straightforward as it is now.

1148
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,528
To run the software, you
had to know some command

1149
00:55:23,611 --> 00:55:25,321
line coding and things.

1150
00:55:25,405 --> 00:55:27,323
And so it was a
little complicated

1151
00:55:27,407 --> 00:55:28,658
and it took a
little bit of doing.

1152
00:55:28,742 --> 00:55:31,202
And I remember people
getting really frustrated

1153
00:55:31,286 --> 00:55:32,871
because literally
you would hear people

1154
00:55:32,954 --> 00:55:34,330
going, "If I was
drawing, I could

1155
00:55:34,414 --> 00:55:35,540
do this in a half an hour."

1156
00:55:35,623 --> 00:55:37,333
And it would take days.

1157
00:55:37,417 --> 00:55:40,003
In one sense, it was sudden
but in another sense because I

1158
00:55:40,086 --> 00:55:42,172
was working on other
projects, it was

1159
00:55:42,255 --> 00:55:43,506
this slow thing that happened.

1160
00:55:43,590 --> 00:55:46,009
And the next thing you
know, I just didn't--

1161
00:55:46,092 --> 00:55:47,177
what just happened?

1162
00:55:47,260 --> 00:55:49,554
It happened so gradually.

1163
00:55:49,637 --> 00:55:50,680
Yeah.

1164
00:55:50,764 --> 00:55:52,182
That was a hard time.

1165
00:55:52,265 --> 00:55:56,352
That was when all of us had
to make a decision that we

1166
00:55:56,436 --> 00:55:57,854
never thought we'd have to.

1167
00:55:57,937 --> 00:56:00,732
I went into Disney thinking
it was going to be a career.

1168
00:56:00,815 --> 00:56:03,860
I was in this thought
process of the nine old men

1169
00:56:03,943 --> 00:56:05,195
did it for 40 years.

1170
00:56:05,278 --> 00:56:08,198
And I thought I'd be
there most of my career,

1171
00:56:08,281 --> 00:56:11,034
and I wouldn't have to really
consider going somewhere else

1172
00:56:11,117 --> 00:56:13,036
or figuring out what
else, especially

1173
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:15,371
to just leave
animation altogether.

1174
00:56:15,455 --> 00:56:19,876
Some people were able to
make that jump from 2D to 3D,

1175
00:56:19,959 --> 00:56:21,044
but a few people weren't.

1176
00:56:21,127 --> 00:56:22,378
They didn't have that ability.

1177
00:56:22,462 --> 00:56:26,091
And I know one guy that
became a forklift operator.

1178
00:56:26,174 --> 00:56:29,886
I know somebody else that went
and took jobs in the parks

1179
00:56:29,969 --> 00:56:33,056
and doing retail.

1180
00:56:33,139 --> 00:56:37,393
It's sad to see that because
they're really talented

1181
00:56:37,477 --> 00:56:41,898
great artists that decided to
just let it go because they had

1182
00:56:41,981 --> 00:56:43,566
this big blow happen
to them and they

1183
00:56:43,650 --> 00:56:46,903
feel that they lost their
livelihood rather than adapt.

1184
00:56:46,986 --> 00:56:48,446
It was sad.

1185
00:56:48,530 --> 00:56:50,115
The change
happened at CalArts.

1186
00:56:50,198 --> 00:56:53,118
So when your teacher comes
in and he looks depressed,

1187
00:56:53,201 --> 00:56:55,745
and he goes, "I've been
at Disney for 15 years

1188
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:57,580
and they just let me go."

1189
00:56:57,664 --> 00:57:02,085
That has a profound effect
on everybody in school.

1190
00:57:02,168 --> 00:57:05,255
And you started seeing
that story happen.

1191
00:57:05,338 --> 00:57:07,924
And as a student you
go, "I love the medium

1192
00:57:08,007 --> 00:57:12,303
and I love the craft, but the
people who are teaching me,

1193
00:57:12,387 --> 00:57:14,764
who are amazing, who
have been at Disney

1194
00:57:14,848 --> 00:57:19,769
and worked on all these landmark
movies, they're getting let go.

1195
00:57:19,853 --> 00:57:21,312
What chance do I have?"

1196
00:57:21,396 --> 00:57:24,774
So I love you art form,
I love your craft,

1197
00:57:24,858 --> 00:57:26,609
but we can't be together.

1198
00:57:26,693 --> 00:57:28,444
I get a job.

1199
00:57:28,528 --> 00:57:31,948
For a lot of us, I think
what the question became was,

1200
00:57:32,031 --> 00:57:33,283
all right.

1201
00:57:33,366 --> 00:57:36,119
Did I get into animation
because I love to draw

1202
00:57:36,202 --> 00:57:37,954
or did I get into
animation because I

1203
00:57:38,037 --> 00:57:39,956
love to make things move?

1204
00:57:40,039 --> 00:57:44,294
And it almost became that basic
because if you got into it just

1205
00:57:44,377 --> 00:57:47,297
to make things move and
come alive, well then,

1206
00:57:47,380 --> 00:57:50,300
you could adapt probably and
become a computer animator.

1207
00:57:50,383 --> 00:57:53,469
And go down that road, and get
retrained, and go maybe work

1208
00:57:53,553 --> 00:57:55,305
at Pixar or some other studio.

1209
00:57:55,388 --> 00:57:59,017
But what we did,
this hand-crafted 2D

1210
00:57:59,100 --> 00:58:01,644
animation was now a dinosaur.

1211
00:58:01,728 --> 00:58:05,190
Basically, we were being
told all the skills that we've

1212
00:58:05,273 --> 00:58:11,154
been asking you to develop
and become top tier at,

1213
00:58:11,237 --> 00:58:13,156
we don't need them anymore.

1214
00:58:13,239 --> 00:58:14,407
You need to go away.

1215
00:58:21,289 --> 00:58:23,666
Thankfully, I had
already directed Mulan

1216
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:27,378
and I had this new
path of, OK, well,

1217
00:58:27,462 --> 00:58:30,173
if I stay away from 2D
animation in general

1218
00:58:30,256 --> 00:58:33,051
but I just direct,
I could direct CG.

1219
00:58:33,134 --> 00:58:34,510
I could direct 2D.

1220
00:58:34,594 --> 00:58:37,347
As a director, it gave me
a lot more flexibility.

1221
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:39,849
So I just tried to go
the path of creating

1222
00:58:39,933 --> 00:58:42,518
stories, and scripts, and
producing, and directing.

1223
00:58:42,602 --> 00:58:44,062
Eventually, I moved up North.

1224
00:58:44,145 --> 00:58:48,858
I moved up to Pixar and worked
with the team on Toy Story 2,

1225
00:58:48,942 --> 00:58:53,905
and followed that with Monsters
Inc. But since that time,

1226
00:58:53,988 --> 00:58:56,532
animation has been
totally changed.

1227
00:58:56,616 --> 00:59:00,036
Traditional hand-drawn
animation has been regretfully

1228
00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:01,579
pushed to the sidelines.

1229
00:59:01,663 --> 00:59:02,580
It's not gone.

1230
00:59:02,664 --> 00:59:04,249
It's not dead.

1231
00:59:04,332 --> 00:59:05,708
I'm not a pessimist.

1232
00:59:05,792 --> 00:59:08,878
Hand-drawn animation
will always be with us.

1233
00:59:08,962 --> 00:59:10,421
It'll be back one day.

1234
00:59:10,505 --> 00:59:14,550
Audiences will discover it the
same way they discovered CGI,

1235
00:59:14,634 --> 00:59:16,886
and we're going to have
hand-drawn animated films

1236
00:59:16,970 --> 00:59:17,720
again.

1237
00:59:17,804 --> 00:59:18,721
You know why?

1238
00:59:18,805 --> 00:59:21,057
Because animators love it.

1239
00:59:21,140 --> 00:59:23,226
Audiences love it.

1240
00:59:23,309 --> 00:59:27,730
We all love hand-drawn
traditional animation.

1241
00:59:27,814 --> 00:59:30,733
WEN: Traditional 2D
animators are continuing

1242
00:59:30,817 --> 00:59:33,403
to find ways to use
their skills to tell

1243
00:59:33,486 --> 00:59:39,409
stories, and even add the human
touch to computer animation.

1244
00:59:39,492 --> 00:59:42,578
Well, now we know now,
historically looking back,

1245
00:59:42,662 --> 00:59:44,247
they had great storytellers.

1246
00:59:44,330 --> 00:59:46,791
They were all trained
in Disney anyway

1247
00:59:46,874 --> 00:59:48,293
but their stories were great.

1248
00:59:48,376 --> 00:59:49,919
They knew how to make
really great stories.

1249
00:59:50,003 --> 00:59:54,757
It just gives me so much
more respect for that medium

1250
00:59:54,841 --> 00:59:58,803
because I'm starting with a
CG character, which is already

1251
00:59:58,886 --> 01:00:01,931
more or less on model
and I'm just kind

1252
01:00:02,015 --> 01:00:03,266
of manipulating it from there.

1253
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:04,767
They're starting with
a blank piece of paper

1254
01:00:04,851 --> 01:00:06,436
and creating something
that's on model,

1255
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:08,438
and then turning it,
and then evolving it,

1256
01:00:08,521 --> 01:00:10,606
and then making it expressive.

1257
01:00:10,690 --> 01:00:15,486
And that sort of discipline
just blows my mind.

1258
01:00:15,570 --> 01:00:18,448
And so I find myself
constantly returning

1259
01:00:18,531 --> 01:00:20,325
to drawing because I've
always loved to draw,

1260
01:00:20,408 --> 01:00:23,619
but wanting to go deeper
and wanting to learn

1261
01:00:23,703 --> 01:00:25,121
to keep a character on model.

1262
01:00:25,204 --> 01:00:27,290
And know what are
the rules of appeal?

1263
01:00:27,373 --> 01:00:31,127
I always tell people
Bambi is not a real deer,

1264
01:00:31,210 --> 01:00:33,463
but he's a very believable deer.

1265
01:00:33,546 --> 01:00:37,633
You believe his situation,
you believe his story.

1266
01:00:37,717 --> 01:00:41,637
The idea of believability
versus just duplicating reality,

1267
01:00:41,721 --> 01:00:43,973
and that's a subtle
difference, but there

1268
01:00:44,057 --> 01:00:44,974
is a difference there.

1269
01:00:45,058 --> 01:00:47,643
We hit a glass ceiling.

1270
01:00:47,727 --> 01:00:54,817
When everything is digital
and everything is dimensional,

1271
01:00:54,901 --> 01:00:57,487
how do you make
something look different?

1272
01:00:57,570 --> 01:01:01,491
Go back to the earlier style.

1273
01:01:01,574 --> 01:01:04,160
Everything old is new again.

1274
01:01:04,243 --> 01:01:07,830
That's what Lauren McMullen did
with her very ingenious short,

1275
01:01:07,914 --> 01:01:09,207
get a horse.

1276
01:01:09,290 --> 01:01:13,503
That's what the Disney studio
did with the movie Enchanted.

1277
01:01:13,586 --> 01:01:17,507
And they hired a former
Disney animator, James Baxter,

1278
01:01:17,590 --> 01:01:20,843
to animate the opening
segment of that movie.

1279
01:01:20,927 --> 01:01:24,514
And to do so, he hired
other ex-Disney animators

1280
01:01:24,597 --> 01:01:28,059
and a few guys who were
working freelance on the side

1281
01:01:28,142 --> 01:01:32,021
because they were the only ones
who could produce that quality

1282
01:01:32,105 --> 01:01:33,731
of hand-drawn animation.

1283
01:01:33,815 --> 01:01:39,529
These artisans are
now folk heroes

1284
01:01:39,612 --> 01:01:42,365
to a generation
of young animators

1285
01:01:42,448 --> 01:01:45,535
who never learned
that technique,

1286
01:01:45,618 --> 01:01:48,204
and never acquired those skills.

1287
01:01:48,287 --> 01:01:51,374
And if anything,
I think 2D animation

1288
01:01:51,457 --> 01:01:53,876
has really freed us a lot more.

1289
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,379
It has really pushed
us to the next level.

1290
01:01:56,462 --> 01:01:59,382
We learned this from
Glen Keane on Rapunzel.

1291
01:01:59,465 --> 01:02:02,718
He would sit and
look at the CG work

1292
01:02:02,802 --> 01:02:05,263
being done, and pause
on frames and draw

1293
01:02:05,346 --> 01:02:07,890
over to emphasize poses.

1294
01:02:07,974 --> 01:02:12,228
The elevation for me
at Disney of CG animation

1295
01:02:12,311 --> 01:02:14,397
took a huge jump
for me in Tangled

1296
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,400
when Glen started
taking CG animators

1297
01:02:17,483 --> 01:02:20,236
and really pushing 2D
principles back into it.

1298
01:02:20,319 --> 01:02:22,405
Break it to make it
look, feel right.

1299
01:02:22,488 --> 01:02:24,407
Don't worry about it
being technically right.

1300
01:02:24,490 --> 01:02:25,575
Make it feel right.

1301
01:02:25,658 --> 01:02:27,743
And we picked that
up on Inside Out,

1302
01:02:27,827 --> 01:02:29,454
and we've done it
on every film since.

1303
01:02:29,537 --> 01:02:32,415
I know that Frozen gets
a lot of the accolades

1304
01:02:32,498 --> 01:02:35,793
as far as the rebirth of
Disney feature animation.

1305
01:02:35,877 --> 01:02:40,256
But for me, Tangled was the film
where I was like, oh my God.

1306
01:02:40,339 --> 01:02:42,592
It felt like it really
set the bar higher.

1307
01:02:42,675 --> 01:02:44,594
And we saw that and we're
like, "OK, that's what

1308
01:02:44,677 --> 01:02:45,928
we're aiming towards now.

1309
01:02:46,012 --> 01:02:46,971
That is just beautiful."

1310
01:02:47,054 --> 01:02:49,098
Well, whether you are
doing it with a computer

1311
01:02:49,182 --> 01:02:53,311
or we're doing it with a
pencil, it doesn't matter.

1312
01:02:53,394 --> 01:02:57,106
It's about taking what's inside
and showing it to other people.

1313
01:02:57,190 --> 01:03:01,611
It's the gift that we each
have that God's given us

1314
01:03:01,694 --> 01:03:05,281
that we are trying to
translate, to share, to give it

1315
01:03:05,364 --> 01:03:07,283
to somebody else to appreciate.

1316
01:03:07,366 --> 01:03:12,330
So I thought, all right, I
think I know what drawing is.

1317
01:03:12,413 --> 01:03:15,625
When I draw, I watch
the line I make.

1318
01:03:15,708 --> 01:03:17,126
And I started to do that.

1319
01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:19,629
And I thought, I'm just
going to watch what I do.

1320
01:03:19,712 --> 01:03:22,840
I started making a line
of drawing of a character.

1321
01:03:22,924 --> 01:03:27,470
And as I drew, I realized I
wasn't looking at the line.

1322
01:03:27,553 --> 01:03:30,973
You don't look at the
line you're making.

1323
01:03:31,057 --> 01:03:33,809
So I realized I was
always looking to the left

1324
01:03:33,893 --> 01:03:35,645
or to the right of the line.

1325
01:03:35,728 --> 01:03:38,147
And I realized, the
line you're making

1326
01:03:38,231 --> 01:03:42,485
is you're defining the reality
that's between the lines.

1327
01:03:42,568 --> 01:03:44,320
That's what's real.

1328
01:03:44,403 --> 01:03:46,656
And that CG was
doing the same thing.

1329
01:03:46,739 --> 01:03:51,661
It was shading that character
that's between those lines,

1330
01:03:51,744 --> 01:03:54,664
but it was about the
existence of that character.

1331
01:03:54,747 --> 01:03:57,708
And so I realized there's
really no difference.

1332
01:03:57,792 --> 01:04:01,587
We are all living in the skin of
the characters that we create.

1333
01:04:05,925 --> 01:04:08,678
WEN: Now we've come full
circle, with technology

1334
01:04:08,761 --> 01:04:12,682
making it easier than ever to
create hand-drawn animation.

1335
01:04:12,765 --> 01:04:18,229
And this is bringing in a whole
new generation of 2D animators.

1336
01:04:18,312 --> 01:04:21,566
I remember when I was a
freshman, the first teacher I

1337
01:04:21,649 --> 01:04:24,569
ever had, the first
lecture he ever gave us was

1338
01:04:24,652 --> 01:04:26,696
he dimmed the lights ominously.

1339
01:04:26,779 --> 01:04:28,698
And he gathered us
all together and said,

1340
01:04:28,781 --> 01:04:30,741
"2D animation is dying.

1341
01:04:30,825 --> 01:04:33,077
This is a candle
that is dwindling.

1342
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,871
It is in the middle of a
howling storm of commerce,

1343
01:04:35,955 --> 01:04:39,083
and it is up to you to
protect and carry this flame

1344
01:04:39,166 --> 01:04:40,376
to the next generation.

1345
01:04:40,459 --> 01:04:41,919
And if you don't,
animation is dead

1346
01:04:42,003 --> 01:04:44,213
and you're all going to
be delivering my pizza."

1347
01:04:44,297 --> 01:04:46,882
This is how my education began.

1348
01:04:46,966 --> 01:04:50,219
Now, I in retrospect,
find that metaphor

1349
01:04:50,303 --> 01:04:52,054
to be a bit hyperbolic.

1350
01:04:52,138 --> 01:04:56,058
My personal perspective is
that you can't kill art.

1351
01:04:56,142 --> 01:04:58,728
You can't kill an art form.

1352
01:04:58,811 --> 01:05:03,232
An art form grows and evolves
with the culture it's in.

1353
01:05:03,316 --> 01:05:09,280
So even though Disney,
hand-drawn, feature length

1354
01:05:09,363 --> 01:05:14,619
films, that specific world
is currently non-existent,

1355
01:05:14,702 --> 01:05:19,123
2D animation is not
just Disney hand-drawn

1356
01:05:19,206 --> 01:05:20,291
feature length films.

1357
01:05:20,374 --> 01:05:21,584
I think there's
an irony once again

1358
01:05:21,667 --> 01:05:25,421
because I think
the thing that sent

1359
01:05:25,504 --> 01:05:27,089
animation away is technology.

1360
01:05:27,173 --> 01:05:29,592
The advancement of
technology and the ability

1361
01:05:29,675 --> 01:05:30,926
to do these CG animated films.

1362
01:05:31,010 --> 01:05:32,470
But I think the
thing that's going

1363
01:05:32,553 --> 01:05:34,597
to bring it back is technology.

1364
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,808
Technology advancing
for us to do the ways

1365
01:05:37,892 --> 01:05:39,435
that we distribute content.

1366
01:05:39,518 --> 01:05:43,481
And plus, the ways to create 2D
animated films, the software,

1367
01:05:43,564 --> 01:05:47,276
whether you do it digitally or
if you want to do it on paper.

1368
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,612
It's still shooting it.

1369
01:05:49,695 --> 01:05:54,617
There's ways of creating
it quicker and cheaper.

1370
01:05:54,700 --> 01:05:56,619
So some of the things
that we may have been

1371
01:05:56,702 --> 01:05:59,622
prohibitive in the past from
a cost standpoint really

1372
01:05:59,705 --> 01:06:00,790
don't exist anymore.

1373
01:06:00,873 --> 01:06:02,792
The African saying,
"They buried us

1374
01:06:02,875 --> 01:06:06,796
but they didn't
know we were seeds."

1375
01:06:06,879 --> 01:06:08,964
That's what happened
to 2D animation.

1376
01:06:09,048 --> 01:06:11,967
I think everybody
thought it was done

1377
01:06:12,051 --> 01:06:15,846
and it kept growing in
different parts of the world,

1378
01:06:15,930 --> 01:06:17,640
especially in Europe and Japan.

1379
01:06:17,723 --> 01:06:19,308
It kept growing and
it kept growing.

1380
01:06:19,392 --> 01:06:22,812
And the whole generation of
people who grew up with it

1381
01:06:22,895 --> 01:06:28,484
and loved it willed it back and
it slowly started rising again.

1382
01:06:28,567 --> 01:06:32,655
And now, Netflix is spending
real money on a 2D feature

1383
01:06:32,738 --> 01:06:34,323
with Sergio Pablos.

1384
01:06:34,407 --> 01:06:38,327
Who would have thought
a Spaniard from CalArts

1385
01:06:38,411 --> 01:06:42,206
would potentially save feature
animation with his studio?

1386
01:06:42,289 --> 01:06:46,335
When we had an attempt
at reviving 2D animation,

1387
01:06:46,419 --> 01:06:48,003
we just kept looking back.

1388
01:06:48,087 --> 01:06:52,007
We just kept asking audiences,
"Have you been missing these?"

1389
01:06:52,091 --> 01:06:55,344
And audiences said, "We're
all good on princesses

1390
01:06:55,428 --> 01:06:56,679
and singing animals.
Thank you.

1391
01:06:56,762 --> 01:06:57,680
We're fine.

1392
01:06:57,763 --> 01:06:59,181
So we don't need that anymore."

1393
01:06:59,265 --> 01:07:01,183
So instead of saying, "What
else can we give them?"

1394
01:07:01,267 --> 01:07:03,853
Then they just said,
"Oh, I guess they want 3D

1395
01:07:03,936 --> 01:07:05,354
and that's what we--"

1396
01:07:05,438 --> 01:07:11,861
So we never tried anything else
and I thought someone should.

1397
01:07:11,944 --> 01:07:16,866
And it was many people
resentful at Disney

1398
01:07:16,949 --> 01:07:19,201
because we all felt if someone
should, it should be them.

1399
01:07:19,285 --> 01:07:21,036
They made the medium
what it is today.

1400
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,372
So they should be doing
something about it.

1401
01:07:23,456 --> 01:07:27,209
And then one day I just
looked at myself in the mirror

1402
01:07:27,293 --> 01:07:31,046
and I realized I'm one
of the few people who

1403
01:07:31,130 --> 01:07:34,717
got to work in 2D
animation professionally

1404
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,385
and I had my own studio.

1405
01:07:36,469 --> 01:07:39,430
So how am I any less to blame
than Disney for not doing

1406
01:07:39,513 --> 01:07:40,890
something about it, right?

1407
01:07:40,973 --> 01:07:45,728
So I said, "Well, at least
let's give it a try."

1408
01:07:45,811 --> 01:07:51,066
One of the things that
2D was held back from was

1409
01:07:51,150 --> 01:07:56,405
as the filmmaking advanced, and
you've got real dynamic live

1410
01:07:56,489 --> 01:08:00,075
action filmmakers, those ideas
weren't necessarily translated

1411
01:08:00,159 --> 01:08:01,911
in the hand-drawn medium.

1412
01:08:01,994 --> 01:08:03,412
But now, with the
help of technology,

1413
01:08:03,496 --> 01:08:06,248
now we can get more immersive
in our storytelling.

1414
01:08:06,332 --> 01:08:09,084
Klaus is pretty successful
at that, I think.

1415
01:08:09,168 --> 01:08:13,923
Adding elements that really sort
of sweeten the palate when you

1416
01:08:14,006 --> 01:08:16,591
can actually really play
space, and dimension,

1417
01:08:16,675 --> 01:08:19,261
and add atmosphere,
and shadow techniques,

1418
01:08:19,345 --> 01:08:21,930
and shading and stuff like
that, that actually gives

1419
01:08:22,014 --> 01:08:24,265
2D characters a 3D dimension.

1420
01:08:24,350 --> 01:08:26,435
It had a magical feel to it.

1421
01:08:26,519 --> 01:08:28,103
It was really fun to look at.

1422
01:08:28,187 --> 01:08:33,776
So however we get there, it's
just the organic feeling when

1423
01:08:33,859 --> 01:08:38,823
you animate a scene and
you see just I don't want

1424
01:08:38,906 --> 01:08:40,950
to say imperfections,
but there are

1425
01:08:41,033 --> 01:08:42,952
shifts and changes of realness.

1426
01:08:43,035 --> 01:08:46,455
You look at any movie,
beautiful 2D movie,

1427
01:08:46,538 --> 01:08:50,960
it has a spark in it that's
just a little different.

1428
01:08:51,042 --> 01:08:55,130
We did this two-minute test
proof of concept where we

1429
01:08:55,214 --> 01:08:57,966
basically was meant
to convince investors

1430
01:08:58,050 --> 01:08:59,676
to put money into the film.

1431
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:01,303
The great thing about
that was because it

1432
01:09:01,386 --> 01:09:03,346
looked like it had
volumetric lighting,

1433
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:04,807
people assumed it was CGI.

1434
01:09:04,890 --> 01:09:06,684
And I never pitched
it as a 2D film.

1435
01:09:06,767 --> 01:09:08,477
I just said this is a film.

1436
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:10,979
We made that
conversation go away.

1437
01:09:11,063 --> 01:09:14,524
All the rejection
just disappeared.

1438
01:09:14,608 --> 01:09:18,654
What was surprising as we
were putting the film together

1439
01:09:18,737 --> 01:09:21,657
and hiring talent,
I started calling

1440
01:09:21,740 --> 01:09:24,827
of course, all the old guard.

1441
01:09:24,910 --> 01:09:26,662
Get out of retirement.

1442
01:09:26,745 --> 01:09:28,997
Whatever you're
doing, we need you.

1443
01:09:29,081 --> 01:09:31,709
Some did, some of
course, had moved on.

1444
01:09:31,792 --> 01:09:34,002
And there was a big
question mark about,

1445
01:09:34,086 --> 01:09:36,671
can we actually get enough
people to be able to animate

1446
01:09:36,755 --> 01:09:39,174
at this level on a film today?

1447
01:09:39,258 --> 01:09:43,345
And that's when the new
generation started coming up.

1448
01:09:43,429 --> 01:09:47,182
Kids right out of school, maybe
they only work in one film.

1449
01:09:47,265 --> 01:09:50,019
And they had seen
that piece which

1450
01:09:50,102 --> 01:09:51,562
was not meant for
recruiting, but it

1451
01:09:51,645 --> 01:09:53,689
was a best recruitment tool.

1452
01:09:53,772 --> 01:09:57,192
People would say,
"I will relocate.

1453
01:09:57,276 --> 01:09:59,862
I will move my family
to work on that."

1454
01:09:59,945 --> 01:10:00,988
And they did.

1455
01:10:03,782 --> 01:10:04,825
Hello.

1456
01:10:10,122 --> 01:10:11,206
Yeah.

1457
01:10:11,290 --> 01:10:15,252
It's going to take nothing
short of a miracle.

1458
01:10:15,336 --> 01:10:19,381
Just looking at the crew of
Klaus is really interesting.

1459
01:10:19,465 --> 01:10:23,552
Apart from a couple
of outliers, lunatics

1460
01:10:23,636 --> 01:10:27,556
like Matt Williams and Andrew
Chesworth who are in their 30s.

1461
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:32,061
It's basically a crew of you're
under 26 or you're over 50.

1462
01:10:32,144 --> 01:10:35,773
And there's this big
gap in the middle where

1463
01:10:35,856 --> 01:10:37,232
everyone went to go do CG.

1464
01:10:37,316 --> 01:10:39,068
But there's all
these kids which are

1465
01:10:39,151 --> 01:10:41,070
under like 26 or
something who are

1466
01:10:41,153 --> 01:10:43,072
just insane about this stuff.

1467
01:10:43,155 --> 01:10:48,410
And like me, like many of us,
they got hooked on this drug

1468
01:10:48,494 --> 01:10:51,580
and it's a powerful drug,
hand-drawn animation.

1469
01:10:51,664 --> 01:10:54,250
And animators out there,
hand-drawn animators that are

1470
01:10:54,333 --> 01:10:56,794
being born now watching that
movie for the first time

1471
01:10:56,877 --> 01:10:58,754
and wanting to jump into
this medium and say,

1472
01:10:58,837 --> 01:11:01,298
"Hey, I saw 101 Dalmatians.

1473
01:11:01,382 --> 01:11:02,591
Wow, blow my mind."

1474
01:11:02,675 --> 01:11:04,593
I think that there's artists
out there that, "Yeah,

1475
01:11:04,677 --> 01:11:07,930
3D is really great, but
this hand-drawn stuff, this

1476
01:11:08,013 --> 01:11:09,431
is not that.

1477
01:11:09,515 --> 01:11:11,100
This is not the 3D stuff.

1478
01:11:11,183 --> 01:11:12,643
Those performances
are really cool

1479
01:11:12,726 --> 01:11:14,103
and I want to
learn this medium."

1480
01:11:14,186 --> 01:11:17,439
I grew up to work on
Masters of the Universe.

1481
01:11:17,523 --> 01:11:21,944
So all that time I spent as a
kid watching Masters Universe,

1482
01:11:22,027 --> 01:11:23,487
and not always
watching it as a fan.

1483
01:11:23,570 --> 01:11:26,281
Sometimes hate watching
and be like, Orko.

1484
01:11:26,365 --> 01:11:28,617
All the time I spent
watching it and all

1485
01:11:28,701 --> 01:11:30,494
the time my parents
were like, "Why don't

1486
01:11:30,577 --> 01:11:31,620
you go out and do something?

1487
01:11:31,704 --> 01:11:32,788
Stop watching these cartoons.

1488
01:11:32,871 --> 01:11:34,623
This is a waste of your time."

1489
01:11:34,707 --> 01:11:35,666
I love my parents to death.

1490
01:11:35,749 --> 01:11:37,292
They were wrong.

1491
01:11:37,376 --> 01:11:39,795
Thank God I put in the work when
I did because when I grew up,

1492
01:11:39,878 --> 01:11:42,965
somebody was like, "Would you
like to take over Eternia?

1493
01:11:43,048 --> 01:11:45,300
Would you like to put words
in the mouth of Cringer?

1494
01:11:45,384 --> 01:11:46,802
I was like, "Words and more.

1495
01:11:46,885 --> 01:11:47,803
Let me at it."

1496
01:11:47,886 --> 01:11:50,973
And so that came
from a childhood

1497
01:11:51,056 --> 01:11:52,516
growing up with cartoons.

1498
01:11:52,599 --> 01:11:55,477
I feel like that love of the
medium, that acknowledgment

1499
01:11:55,561 --> 01:11:59,982
of a profound impact it
had on a whole generation

1500
01:12:00,065 --> 01:12:01,984
of not only artists,
but kids who

1501
01:12:02,067 --> 01:12:04,319
grew up loving these movies.

1502
01:12:04,403 --> 01:12:06,488
These movies that
changed people's lives.

1503
01:12:06,572 --> 01:12:07,990
They changed their dreams.

1504
01:12:08,073 --> 01:12:12,661
They literally formed their
view of the world, is now,

1505
01:12:12,745 --> 01:12:14,163
you're seeing the seeds grow.

1506
01:12:14,246 --> 01:12:16,040
And now, you're seeing all
these different trees all over

1507
01:12:16,123 --> 01:12:18,500
the world blossoming with that.

1508
01:12:18,584 --> 01:12:21,170
And I don't even think people
who made those movies back then

1509
01:12:21,253 --> 01:12:26,050
had any idea how endless
these movies were going to be,

1510
01:12:26,133 --> 01:12:29,678
how profound the impact was
going to be on these things.

1511
01:12:29,762 --> 01:12:33,015
It's an amazing time where we're
now looking at these things

1512
01:12:33,098 --> 01:12:35,184
in a whole different way.

1513
01:12:35,267 --> 01:12:39,188
Every university
in a major city now

1514
01:12:39,271 --> 01:12:43,025
has a course on how to do
animation, which is insane.

1515
01:12:43,108 --> 01:12:44,359
When I was getting
into animation,

1516
01:12:44,443 --> 01:12:47,529
there was one in the UK
where you could go learn

1517
01:12:47,613 --> 01:12:49,364
to do animation and a
couple in the United

1518
01:12:49,448 --> 01:12:50,866
States that was
just like, "That's

1519
01:12:50,949 --> 01:12:52,201
where you go to do animation."

1520
01:12:52,284 --> 01:12:54,536
Every university now
has some little thing

1521
01:12:54,620 --> 01:12:55,537
where you go do animation.

1522
01:12:55,621 --> 01:12:58,207
So many of my
students are coming in

1523
01:12:58,290 --> 01:13:00,876
because they grew up with Lion
King, Beauty and the Beast,

1524
01:13:00,959 --> 01:13:02,044
and Aladdin.

1525
01:13:02,127 --> 01:13:03,212
All these films
that I worked on.

1526
01:13:03,295 --> 01:13:05,714
They are adamant
about wanting to be

1527
01:13:05,798 --> 01:13:07,716
2D animators just like I was.

1528
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:10,385
And look at the stuff that's
coming out of Europe and Japan,

1529
01:13:10,469 --> 01:13:13,222
and there's still the
great stuff over there.

1530
01:13:13,305 --> 01:13:15,724
But I feel like the
mainstream high end

1531
01:13:15,808 --> 01:13:23,065
you broad appeal feature
animation in traditional needs

1532
01:13:23,148 --> 01:13:24,066
to come back.

1533
01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:25,609
It doesn't need to take over.

1534
01:13:25,692 --> 01:13:26,902
That's not what I'm saying.

1535
01:13:26,985 --> 01:13:29,571
It just needs to have a place.

1536
01:13:29,655 --> 01:13:34,576
It's a way of registering
something inside of me

1537
01:13:34,660 --> 01:13:37,913
that I almost
can't even control.

1538
01:13:37,996 --> 01:13:42,251
That it comes out in the way
I put the line on the paper.

1539
01:13:42,334 --> 01:13:45,420
I think of it as a
seismograph of your soul

1540
01:13:45,504 --> 01:13:48,757
is this energy
that you draw with.

1541
01:13:48,841 --> 01:13:50,968
And I feel like
there is something

1542
01:13:51,051 --> 01:13:54,096
that we are communicating
actually in the way

1543
01:13:54,179 --> 01:13:55,764
you put the line down.

1544
01:13:55,848 --> 01:14:00,102
My son Max, as we were
working on Duet at one

1545
01:14:00,185 --> 01:14:02,771
point, which was hand drawn.

1546
01:14:02,855 --> 01:14:07,484
He said, "Dad, do you
realize every line you make

1547
01:14:07,568 --> 01:14:10,279
is the first time
and the last time

1548
01:14:10,362 --> 01:14:13,448
that that stroke will ever be
made in the history of time.

1549
01:14:13,532 --> 01:14:17,119
There will never be another
line like that line."

1550
01:14:17,202 --> 01:14:20,456
And we learned that because
as we would do that,

1551
01:14:20,539 --> 01:14:25,002
we took a look at a line
and it was like a field

1552
01:14:25,085 --> 01:14:26,962
of graphite Stardust.

1553
01:14:27,045 --> 01:14:29,464
That it was different
every stroke.

1554
01:14:29,548 --> 01:14:34,636
It was a revelation to me of the
importance of line and energy,

1555
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:40,642
and that little film allowed
me to communicate how I felt

1556
01:14:40,726 --> 01:14:45,480
about little boy, a little girl,
growing up through the drawing.

1557
01:14:45,564 --> 01:14:50,152
And then Kobe saw that and
when he asked me to animate

1558
01:14:50,235 --> 01:14:53,989
his letter to basketball,
Dear Basketball,

1559
01:14:54,072 --> 01:14:56,658
he said, "But it's
got to be hand-drawn.

1560
01:14:56,742 --> 01:14:58,160
There's this soul to it.

1561
01:14:58,243 --> 01:14:59,703
There's this touch."

1562
01:14:59,786 --> 01:15:03,207
And all the things that I
felt, he was saying back to me.

1563
01:15:03,290 --> 01:15:04,833
And was like, "Yeah,
we got to do this."

1564
01:15:04,917 --> 01:15:09,338
We won an Academy Award in
2018, which was an experience

1565
01:15:09,421 --> 01:15:11,173
I'll never forget.

1566
01:15:11,256 --> 01:15:15,010
PRESENTER: And the Oscar
goes to Dear Basketball,

1567
01:15:15,093 --> 01:15:16,762
Glen Keane and Kobe.

1568
01:15:19,598 --> 01:15:23,560
Whatever form
your dream may take,

1569
01:15:23,644 --> 01:15:27,189
it's through passion
and perseverance

1570
01:15:27,272 --> 01:15:31,693
that the impossible is possible.

1571
01:15:31,777 --> 01:15:37,032
WEN: So what lies ahead in
the future for animation?

1572
01:15:37,115 --> 01:15:39,368
We are in a unique
moment right now,

1573
01:15:39,451 --> 01:15:41,370
I think, in the
history of animation.

1574
01:15:41,453 --> 01:15:46,041
There is a enormous boom
happening right now and coming.

1575
01:15:46,124 --> 01:15:49,044
I would say that there has
literally never been a better

1576
01:15:49,127 --> 01:15:51,880
time in the history of the
world to pitch an animated TV

1577
01:15:51,964 --> 01:15:53,382
show than right now.

1578
01:15:53,465 --> 01:15:55,550
What's interesting to me
about television animation

1579
01:15:55,634 --> 01:15:58,554
is it's the one place
now where 2D animation is

1580
01:15:58,637 --> 01:16:00,764
still very much alive and well.

1581
01:16:00,847 --> 01:16:03,558
And not only alive and
well, but preferred.

1582
01:16:03,642 --> 01:16:05,894
The hunger for
animation is red hot

1583
01:16:05,978 --> 01:16:08,438
and the competition
among studios is red hot.

1584
01:16:08,522 --> 01:16:11,066
And whenever there's a lot
of studios in competition,

1585
01:16:11,149 --> 01:16:13,068
that's an exciting
time for creators.

1586
01:16:13,151 --> 01:16:14,403
It's an exciting
time for artists

1587
01:16:14,486 --> 01:16:16,238
because it means
there's a lot of work

1588
01:16:16,321 --> 01:16:18,615
and it means there's
enormous opportunity.

1589
01:16:18,699 --> 01:16:22,077
An amazing new
world of 2D animation

1590
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:25,247
is happening right
now and I haven't

1591
01:16:25,330 --> 01:16:27,249
been busier in my
whole life I think,

1592
01:16:27,332 --> 01:16:29,918
than I am right now at age 53.

1593
01:16:30,002 --> 01:16:32,587
I'm really excited about
the future of animation

1594
01:16:32,671 --> 01:16:38,093
as it becomes easier to
find more and more diverse

1595
01:16:38,176 --> 01:16:39,594
influences.

1596
01:16:39,678 --> 01:16:42,597
I feel like I was part of the
first generation to grow up

1597
01:16:42,681 --> 01:16:47,436
with anime really easily
accessible, and web comics

1598
01:16:47,519 --> 01:16:50,105
really accessible, which
definitely influenced

1599
01:16:50,188 --> 01:16:52,274
me and my contemporaries.

1600
01:16:52,357 --> 01:16:55,110
And I think the next
generation has even

1601
01:16:55,193 --> 01:16:57,487
more tools at their disposal.

1602
01:16:57,571 --> 01:17:00,115
There's enough small
commercial houses.

1603
01:17:00,198 --> 01:17:02,451
There's enough video
games that are embracing

1604
01:17:02,534 --> 01:17:04,494
2D animation like
Cuphead and all

1605
01:17:04,578 --> 01:17:07,831
these amazing indie
game studios that

1606
01:17:07,914 --> 01:17:09,291
said, "Is 2D animation dead?

1607
01:17:09,374 --> 01:17:10,625
We don't care.
We love it.

1608
01:17:10,709 --> 01:17:12,002
We're going to bring it back."

1609
01:17:12,085 --> 01:17:15,005
I think accessibility is
going to be the big changing

1610
01:17:15,088 --> 01:17:16,298
factor in animation.

1611
01:17:16,381 --> 01:17:17,632
I mean, I think back
to when I was a kid,

1612
01:17:17,716 --> 01:17:20,302
there was no information at all.

1613
01:17:20,385 --> 01:17:22,804
I mean, you could go to
the library and maybe find,

1614
01:17:22,888 --> 01:17:25,640
maybe find a book on
animation but that was it.

1615
01:17:25,724 --> 01:17:28,143
And everything else
was just a mystery.

1616
01:17:28,226 --> 01:17:30,979
And then here comes
YouTube which suddenly,

1617
01:17:31,063 --> 01:17:32,147
it's a little more accessible.

1618
01:17:32,230 --> 01:17:33,482
And now there are apps.

1619
01:17:33,565 --> 01:17:35,150
It will always have
2D animation with us.

1620
01:17:35,233 --> 01:17:38,487
As long as there's a child out
there who watches a cartoon,

1621
01:17:38,570 --> 01:17:41,031
who takes a pencil and a
pen to a piece of paper,

1622
01:17:41,114 --> 01:17:42,824
2D animation will always exist.

1623
01:17:42,908 --> 01:17:46,495
It's now in the domain
of the common man.

1624
01:17:46,578 --> 01:17:49,498
When Disney was popularizing it
throughout the '40s and '50s,

1625
01:17:49,581 --> 01:17:50,832
only gods could do that.

1626
01:17:50,916 --> 01:17:53,668
Now, you got a kid at
home doing it on TikTok.

1627
01:17:53,752 --> 01:17:56,338
You got a kid at home doing
it on Instagram and stuff.

1628
01:17:56,421 --> 01:17:59,007
So 2D animation will
be with us forever.

1629
01:17:59,091 --> 01:18:03,387
But it really comes down to
is that the level of artistry

1630
01:18:03,470 --> 01:18:07,182
was so high that these guys
did under the leadership

1631
01:18:07,265 --> 01:18:08,683
of Walt Disney.

1632
01:18:08,767 --> 01:18:10,727
That when you do something
so good, it's for the ages

1633
01:18:10,811 --> 01:18:13,855
and it will keep
inspiring people to do

1634
01:18:13,939 --> 01:18:15,524
great things in the future.

1635
01:18:15,607 --> 01:18:18,527
The last few years,
we've seen hybrids

1636
01:18:18,610 --> 01:18:22,531
of documentary and animation.

1637
01:18:22,614 --> 01:18:25,701
Just last year, one
film was nominated

1638
01:18:25,784 --> 01:18:31,206
in three separate categories,
Best Animated Feature, Best

1639
01:18:31,289 --> 01:18:34,710
Documentary, and Best
International Film,

1640
01:18:34,793 --> 01:18:40,215
and that was Flee, which told
a dramatic true life story

1641
01:18:40,298 --> 01:18:42,259
using animation as its medium.

1642
01:18:42,342 --> 01:18:46,888
Animation, as people say over
and over again, is not a genre.

1643
01:18:46,972 --> 01:18:49,099
It's a medium.

1644
01:18:49,182 --> 01:18:52,728
It's a medium in which you
can tell any kind of story.

1645
01:18:52,811 --> 01:18:55,063
We're all communicating
with pictures.

1646
01:18:55,147 --> 01:18:59,734
And the more you abstract
your art direction,

1647
01:18:59,818 --> 01:19:03,447
you're dealing with drawing,
even if you're still modeling,

1648
01:19:03,530 --> 01:19:07,451
and rigging, and
using virtual puppets,

1649
01:19:07,534 --> 01:19:09,911
the more you abstract
things and they start

1650
01:19:09,995 --> 01:19:12,622
to look less and less real
and more and more caricatured

1651
01:19:12,706 --> 01:19:15,083
and stuff, you are
dealing with all

1652
01:19:15,167 --> 01:19:18,587
of these lessons that have
been learned tried and true

1653
01:19:18,670 --> 01:19:20,464
for the last 100 years.

1654
01:19:20,547 --> 01:19:21,923
Of like, "Oh, this works.

1655
01:19:22,007 --> 01:19:22,841
That doesn't."

1656
01:19:26,011 --> 01:19:28,930
WEN: Whether it is 2D
hand-drawn animation,

1657
01:19:29,014 --> 01:19:33,768
computer-generated animation, or
techniques we have yet to even

1658
01:19:33,852 --> 01:19:36,771
discover, one thing is certain.

1659
01:19:36,855 --> 01:19:42,944
Animation is by nature an
incredibly human art form.

1660
01:19:43,028 --> 01:19:45,947
These are moving images
that come directly

1661
01:19:46,031 --> 01:19:49,451
from the imagination of some
of the most creative artists

1662
01:19:49,534 --> 01:19:53,288
and storytellers the
world has ever seen.

1663
01:19:53,371 --> 01:19:57,667
Animation lets us communicate
and connect with each other

1664
01:19:57,751 --> 01:20:01,463
in a unique way that is
easy to take for granted.

1665
01:20:01,546 --> 01:20:04,966
But to me, it's pure magic.

1666
01:20:05,050 --> 01:20:08,553
[music playing]

1667
01:20:14,768 --> 01:20:17,312
So next time you're
watching an animated film,

1668
01:20:17,395 --> 01:20:20,982
especially if it's hand-drawn,
perhaps you'll take a moment

1669
01:20:21,066 --> 01:20:26,488
to appreciate the heart and soul
that's poured into every frame.

1670
01:20:26,571 --> 01:20:28,156
[music playing] ready
for you, Ming-Na.

1671
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:29,074
Want to do a take?

1672
01:20:33,745 --> 01:20:34,579
Ready.

1673
01:20:43,588 --> 01:20:50,679
[paper rustling]

1674
01:20:50,762 --> 01:20:53,348
So what are you
doing there, Tom?

1675
01:20:53,431 --> 01:20:54,558
Oh, hey Ming-Na.

1676
01:20:54,641 --> 01:20:56,726
I'm just animating you jumping.

1677
01:20:56,810 --> 01:20:59,187
I'm using the squash
and stretch technique

1678
01:20:59,271 --> 01:21:01,189
to give you that jump illusion.

1679
01:21:01,273 --> 01:21:02,566
Interesting.

1680
01:21:02,649 --> 01:21:06,027
Well, that frame right
there isn't very flattering.

1681
01:21:06,111 --> 01:21:06,862
Oh no, Ming-Na.

1682
01:21:06,945 --> 01:21:08,363
That's just a blur drawing.

1683
01:21:08,446 --> 01:21:10,073
So you only see
it for one frame.

1684
01:21:10,156 --> 01:21:13,577
But when we put all the drawings
together and we speed them up,

1685
01:21:13,660 --> 01:21:16,079
it'll feel like you're
jumping up and down.

1686
01:21:16,162 --> 01:21:17,038
See.

1687
01:21:17,122 --> 01:21:17,872
Ah.

1688
01:21:17,956 --> 01:21:18,540
Now I see.

1689
01:21:18,623 --> 01:21:19,791
That's pretty cool.

1690
01:21:22,961 --> 01:21:23,545
OK, Ming-Na.

1691
01:21:23,628 --> 01:21:25,422
Rough animation is done.

1692
01:21:25,505 --> 01:21:28,717
Now it's time for clean
up, but I need you

1693
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:32,387
to stay really, really still.

1694
01:21:32,470 --> 01:21:35,557
Is-- is that pencil sharp?

1695
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:38,059
No it's not too sharp.

1696
01:21:38,143 --> 01:21:39,060
All right.

1697
01:21:39,144 --> 01:21:40,562
So this is clean up line.

1698
01:21:40,645 --> 01:21:42,897
So you have to stay very still.

1699
01:21:42,981 --> 01:21:46,276
We also call this
the final line.

1700
01:21:46,359 --> 01:21:48,737
And that means
it's the one that's

1701
01:21:48,820 --> 01:21:54,409
going to get colored in so
it's got to be just right.

1702
01:21:54,492 --> 01:21:55,994
Doing the best I can.

1703
01:21:58,496 --> 01:22:03,084
Ooh, loving those lashes.

1704
01:22:03,168 --> 01:22:04,085
OK.

1705
01:22:04,169 --> 01:22:07,297
Almost ready.

1706
01:22:07,380 --> 01:22:08,923
Camera looks good.

1707
01:22:09,007 --> 01:22:09,591
All right.

1708
01:22:09,674 --> 01:22:10,592
Say cheese.

1709
01:22:10,675 --> 01:22:12,469
Oh wait, wait, don't say cheese.

1710
01:22:12,552 --> 01:22:14,179
No, no, just stay still.

1711
01:22:16,848 --> 01:22:19,267
There's a lot of being still
in the animation process,

1712
01:22:19,351 --> 01:22:20,769
isn't there?

1713
01:22:20,852 --> 01:22:23,605
I guess this is why they
call it a still shot, ha.

1714
01:22:23,688 --> 01:22:25,273
Ming-Na, don't move.

1715
01:22:25,357 --> 01:22:27,108
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1716
01:22:27,192 --> 01:22:28,443
All right.

1717
01:22:28,526 --> 01:22:33,114
Now, I'm uploading
your image and there.

1718
01:22:33,198 --> 01:22:34,449
Perfect.

1719
01:22:34,532 --> 01:22:35,951
All right.

1720
01:22:36,034 --> 01:22:36,826
Look.

1721
01:22:36,910 --> 01:22:39,454
Looking pretty good,
ready for color.

1722
01:22:39,537 --> 01:22:41,873
Oh, I was made for the screen.

1723
01:22:51,883 --> 01:22:53,134
Hey.

1724
01:22:53,218 --> 01:22:54,302
Whoopsies.

1725
01:22:54,386 --> 01:22:56,971
Didn't your mother teach
you to color in the lines?

1726
01:22:57,055 --> 01:22:58,723
I thought you were
a pro at this.

1727
01:23:01,059 --> 01:23:03,978
Hey, I'm just messing
with you, Tom.

1728
01:23:04,062 --> 01:23:05,980
OK, OK, for real.

1729
01:23:06,064 --> 01:23:06,690
I'll stay still.

1730
01:23:06,773 --> 01:23:08,817
Yeah, that would help.

1731
01:23:08,900 --> 01:23:10,485
Come on.
- Last time.

1732
01:23:10,568 --> 01:23:11,319
That was it.

1733
01:23:11,403 --> 01:23:12,487
Promise.

1734
01:23:12,570 --> 01:23:13,405
Yeah.

1735
01:23:21,413 --> 01:23:22,163
Wow.

1736
01:23:22,247 --> 01:23:23,331
What a great film.

1737
01:23:23,415 --> 01:23:25,834
Thanks so much for letting
me be a part of it, Tom.

1738
01:23:25,917 --> 01:23:26,501
Oh no.

1739
01:23:26,584 --> 01:23:27,877
Thank you, Ming-Na.

1740
01:23:27,961 --> 01:23:31,172
We were so happy to have
you on this journey with us.

1741
01:23:31,256 --> 01:23:33,174
Me too.

1742
01:23:33,258 --> 01:23:34,426
Hey, nice one.

1743
01:23:38,596 --> 01:23:42,434
By the way, I loved
you in Mandalorian.