1
00:00:51,384 --> 00:00:57,434
<i>gentle dramatic music </i>

2
00:01:27,796 --> 00:01:29,836
<i>[Adrian] Of course we regret
the fact that Lee Murray</i>

3
00:01:29,839 --> 00:01:32,429
<i>and Paul Allen left the country.</i>

4
00:01:32,759 --> 00:01:34,929
<i>And in hindsight,
we would have acted quicker</i>

5
00:01:34,928 --> 00:01:37,098
<i>to sort of stop them.</i>

6
00:01:37,847 --> 00:01:39,467
<i>[Dave E.] No one had any idea
they'd traveled</i>

7
00:01:39,474 --> 00:01:41,394
<i>into Morocco when they did.</i>

8
00:01:41,392 --> 00:01:43,652
<i>There was no intelligence
to support the fact</i>

9
00:01:43,645 --> 00:01:46,225
<i>that they were
traveling to Morocco.</i>

10
00:01:47,148 --> 00:01:49,478
<i>The Moroccan authorities
would have just processed them</i>

11
00:01:49,484 --> 00:01:51,494
<i>as any other individual.</i>

12
00:02:13,508 --> 00:02:16,138
<i>dramatic music </i>

13
00:02:16,594 --> 00:02:20,144
<i>dramatic rhythmic music </i>

14
00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:23,140
<i>[Sir John] A robbery
occurred in Kent.</i>

15
00:02:23,726 --> 00:02:26,726
<i>A substantial amount
of money was stolen.</i>

16
00:02:27,021 --> 00:02:29,151
<i>It was all in cash.</i>

17
00:02:30,191 --> 00:02:31,321
<i>This theft</i>

18
00:02:31,317 --> 00:02:35,157
<i>represented the largest
amount ever stolen.</i>

19
00:02:36,364 --> 00:02:39,374
<i>The robbers used hostages</i>

20
00:02:39,367 --> 00:02:42,577
<i>as the means to enter
the depot.</i>

21
00:02:43,121 --> 00:02:45,751
<i>There are few things
more terrifying</i>

22
00:02:45,748 --> 00:02:49,538
<i>than the invasion
of home or workplace</i>

23
00:02:49,544 --> 00:02:50,674
<i>at the dead of night</i>

24
00:02:50,670 --> 00:02:53,800
<i>by men dressed
entirely in black,</i>

25
00:02:53,798 --> 00:02:58,508
<i>whose faces and heads
are covered by masks,</i>

26
00:02:58,511 --> 00:03:01,101
<i>brandishing deadly weapons,</i>

27
00:03:01,097 --> 00:03:03,597
<i>and shouting that you will die</i>

28
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,560
<i>if you do not do
as you are told.</i>

29
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,270
<i>And the motive for this crime?</i>

30
00:03:10,273 --> 00:03:12,153
<i>Pure and simple.</i>

31
00:03:13,401 --> 00:03:14,531
<i>Greed.</i>

32
00:03:14,527 --> 00:03:20,737
<i>dramatic rhythmic music </i>

33
00:03:22,619 --> 00:03:26,869
<i>dramatic music </i>

34
00:03:30,752 --> 00:03:35,172
<i>The first time I went to
Morocco was with my mom.</i>

35
00:03:35,465 --> 00:03:37,875
<i>And then we met my dad there.</i>

36
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,180
<i>All I remember was
us at the pool,</i>

37
00:03:43,181 --> 00:03:44,141
<i>restaurants,</i>

38
00:03:44,140 --> 00:03:46,390
<i>doing just family things,</i>

39
00:03:46,392 --> 00:03:47,642
<i>riding camels,</i>

40
00:03:47,644 --> 00:03:50,864
<i>and we were meeting
his friends out there.</i>

41
00:03:52,190 --> 00:03:55,610
<i>I think I was about
seven years old.</i>

42
00:03:57,528 --> 00:04:01,238
<i>[Mus] I went to Morocco on
holiday to go and see Lee.</i>

43
00:04:01,241 --> 00:04:05,041
<i>Lee was with his
friend Paul and</i>

44
00:04:05,036 --> 00:04:08,206
<i>I think his missus
and the kids.</i>

45
00:04:10,667 --> 00:04:14,587
<i>I took the car to Lee and
then stayed for a holiday.</i>

46
00:04:14,921 --> 00:04:18,261
<i>I didn't have anything
to do with the robbery.</i>

47
00:04:20,551 --> 00:04:23,391
<i>Most days we were just
watching football,</i>

48
00:04:23,388 --> 00:04:26,268
<i>going to restaurants,
going to the beach,</i>

49
00:04:26,266 --> 00:04:27,596
<i>going to the gym.</i>

50
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,770
<i>Lee looked like he was relaxed.</i>

51
00:04:29,769 --> 00:04:33,229
<i>It didn't really feel like he
was worried about anything.</i>

52
00:04:34,899 --> 00:04:36,689
<i>[Andy] The first time we were
aware that Lee Murray</i>

53
00:04:36,693 --> 00:04:40,533
<i>and Paul Allen were in
Morocco was April, 2006.</i>

54
00:04:40,530 --> 00:04:44,410
<i>I would be quite confident he
thought he was home and dry.</i>

55
00:04:44,409 --> 00:04:46,369
<i>At that time, it made
a little bit of sense</i>

56
00:04:46,369 --> 00:04:49,619
<i>inasmuch as there was
no extradition treaty</i>

57
00:04:49,622 --> 00:04:52,332
<i>between the United Kingdom
and Morocco.</i>

58
00:04:53,459 --> 00:04:54,959
<i>[Andy] One thing you could
say about Lee Murray,</i>

59
00:04:54,961 --> 00:04:56,961
<i>he was quite organized.</i>

60
00:04:56,963 --> 00:04:59,593
<i>He had those criminal
associates in South London,</i>

61
00:04:59,590 --> 00:05:03,680
<i>so he had much more choice
of people he went to.</i>

62
00:05:05,513 --> 00:05:08,433
<i>Lee Murray's money,
I'm absolutely certain,</i>

63
00:05:08,433 --> 00:05:11,693
<i>nine million, ended up in Dubai.</i>

64
00:05:12,395 --> 00:05:14,725
<i>They set up bank
accounts in Morocco,</i>

65
00:05:14,731 --> 00:05:16,521
<i>and they were having money
put into the bank accounts</i>

66
00:05:16,524 --> 00:05:18,404
<i>and business accounts.</i>

67
00:05:18,401 --> 00:05:19,821
<i>A lot of money.</i>

68
00:05:19,819 --> 00:05:21,069
<i>They might have had
somewhere in the region</i>

69
00:05:21,070 --> 00:05:25,370
<i>of 1.8 million pounds in
an account in Morocco.</i>

70
00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:28,080
<i>[Duncan] They were able
to get that money</i>

71
00:05:28,077 --> 00:05:29,827
<i>out of the country physically</i>

72
00:05:29,829 --> 00:05:33,419
<i>without it being traced
almost immediately.</i>

73
00:05:33,416 --> 00:05:36,626
<i>And that, in a way, is
the most difficult thing</i>

74
00:05:36,627 --> 00:05:40,967
<i>for crime involving
large amounts of cash.</i>

75
00:05:43,009 --> 00:05:45,429
<i>[Dave E.] Lee Murray and
Paul Allen were living</i>

76
00:05:45,428 --> 00:05:48,888
<i>with a Moroccan businessman
whom they were relying on</i>

77
00:05:48,890 --> 00:05:52,730
<i>to help them set up companies
that bought houses,</i>

78
00:05:52,727 --> 00:05:54,227
<i>significant properties,</i>

79
00:05:54,228 --> 00:05:56,898
<i>each around about
a million pounds.</i>

80
00:05:57,398 --> 00:05:59,278
<i>[Andy] Two large properties,</i>

81
00:05:59,275 --> 00:06:00,525
<i>one each,</i>

82
00:06:00,902 --> 00:06:01,782
<i>palaces.</i>

83
00:06:01,778 --> 00:06:03,738
<i>They just needed a lot
of work done to them.</i>

84
00:06:03,738 --> 00:06:06,278
<i>They were in the process
of having that done.</i>

85
00:06:06,741 --> 00:06:09,581
<i>Once finished, lavish
would be an understatement.</i>

86
00:06:09,577 --> 00:06:13,707
<i>Allen's one had at least
15 or 20 bedrooms.</i>

87
00:06:13,706 --> 00:06:17,916
<i>dramatic music </i>

88
00:06:17,919 --> 00:06:20,089
<i>When you get into
Lee Murray's place,</i>

89
00:06:20,088 --> 00:06:21,008
<i>the walls are marble,</i>

90
00:06:21,005 --> 00:06:21,835
<i>the floors are marble,</i>

91
00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,389
<i>very kind of opulent furniture.</i>

92
00:06:26,094 --> 00:06:28,814
<i>Some of it quite
pretentious, if you like.</i>

93
00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:31,769
<i>It's not stuff I'd
choose myself, you know,</i>

94
00:06:31,766 --> 00:06:33,386
<i>not that I'm an
interior designer.</i>

95
00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:38,313
<i>And there's a- an
awful mural</i>

96
00:06:38,314 --> 00:06:39,364
<i>of Lee Murray.</i>

97
00:06:39,357 --> 00:06:40,567
<i>I wonder whether the person</i>

98
00:06:40,566 --> 00:06:42,896
<i>that did it had
visual impairment.</i>

99
00:06:43,903 --> 00:06:46,163
<i>And then some of the other
rooms clearly showed signs</i>

100
00:06:46,155 --> 00:06:49,695
<i>that he was preparing to
take the kids there as well,</i>

101
00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:52,290
<i>fitted out with smaller beds.</i>

102
00:06:52,787 --> 00:06:56,917
<i>He's moving everything, lock,
stock and barrel, to Morocco.</i>

103
00:06:58,209 --> 00:07:00,709
<i>[Lilly] There was a plan
for us to move to Morocco,</i>

104
00:07:00,711 --> 00:07:02,511
<i>so he bought the house</i>

105
00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:04,545
<i>and showed us all our bedrooms.</i>

106
00:07:04,549 --> 00:07:07,259
<i>dramatic music </i>

107
00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:10,260
<i>We were definitely
gonna be living there.</i>

108
00:07:11,222 --> 00:07:16,352
<i>gentle music </i>

109
00:07:16,352 --> 00:07:18,402
<i>[Andy] I'm back in the UK.</i>

110
00:07:18,396 --> 00:07:20,816
<i>And as the officer in
the case, my job would be</i>

111
00:07:20,815 --> 00:07:23,645
<i>to get a case together
against Paul Allen</i>

112
00:07:23,651 --> 00:07:25,861
<i>and Lee Murray in the UK.</i>

113
00:07:25,862 --> 00:07:28,112
<i>We're trying to get the
Moroccans to arrest them</i>

114
00:07:28,114 --> 00:07:29,574
<i>on our behalf.</i>

115
00:07:30,241 --> 00:07:31,831
<i>When you go to other
countries as a police officer,</i>

116
00:07:31,826 --> 00:07:33,616
<i>you are not allowed
to do anything.</i>

117
00:07:33,619 --> 00:07:34,789
<i>That is the rules.</i>

118
00:07:34,787 --> 00:07:36,077
<i>Internationally,
that's the rules.</i>

119
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,670
<i>But you can ask the
force of the host country</i>

120
00:07:39,667 --> 00:07:41,627
<i>to do stuff on your behalf.</i>

121
00:07:43,963 --> 00:07:47,843
<i>I'm on holiday and
I receive a phone call</i>

122
00:07:47,842 --> 00:07:52,182
<i>effectively saying to me how
quickly can I get to Morocco.</i>

123
00:07:52,763 --> 00:07:54,893
<i>And the Moroccan authorities
were very welcoming.</i>

124
00:07:54,891 --> 00:07:56,771
<i>We were very respectful
of each other.</i>

125
00:07:56,767 --> 00:08:00,347
<i>You know, it was all new
territory for everybody.</i>

126
00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:01,980
<i>So, there were a number
of objectives,</i>

127
00:08:01,981 --> 00:08:04,731
<i>but the main one was,
obviously, to seek their</i>

128
00:08:04,734 --> 00:08:07,534
<i>arrest and extradition back
to the United Kingdom</i>

129
00:08:07,528 --> 00:08:08,908
<i>for them to answer
the allegations</i>

130
00:08:08,905 --> 00:08:11,655
<i>that they were a
part of this robbery.</i>

131
00:08:11,657 --> 00:08:13,157
<i>[Adrian] Kent Police have
no powers abroad.</i>

132
00:08:13,159 --> 00:08:15,789
<i>But fortunately, there was a
good relationship politically</i>

133
00:08:15,786 --> 00:08:18,536
<i>between the British government
and the Moroccan authorities,</i>

134
00:08:18,539 --> 00:08:23,209
<i>so the Moroccans were happy
to allow us to work with them.</i>

135
00:08:24,962 --> 00:08:26,592
<i>[Andy] And they took it upon
themselves to kind of</i>

136
00:08:26,589 --> 00:08:28,129
<i>keep an eye on them and see
where they were going.</i>

137
00:08:28,132 --> 00:08:29,972
<i>They didn't follow them
around all day every day,</i>

138
00:08:29,967 --> 00:08:31,717
<i>but they kept an eye on things.</i>

139
00:08:31,719 --> 00:08:36,769
<i>soft dramatic music </i>

140
00:08:41,354 --> 00:08:42,944
<i>They were living the high life.</i>

141
00:08:42,939 --> 00:08:45,149
<i>They were spending money,</i>

142
00:08:45,149 --> 00:08:46,689
<i>shopping,</i>

143
00:08:46,692 --> 00:08:48,572
<i>just having a really nice time,</i>

144
00:08:48,569 --> 00:08:52,029
<i>without an inkling
that we were there.</i>

145
00:08:52,740 --> 00:08:53,870
<i>[Lilly] I didn't know that</i>

146
00:08:53,866 --> 00:08:56,536
<i>undercover police were
following us at all.</i>

147
00:08:56,827 --> 00:09:00,497
<i>We're just going on
holiday to see my dad.</i>

148
00:09:00,498 --> 00:09:02,708
<i>It was all just pretty normal.</i>

149
00:09:02,708 --> 00:09:05,628
<i>dramatic music </i>

150
00:09:05,628 --> 00:09:07,418
<i>[Dave E.] One of the things
that I spent a lot</i>

151
00:09:07,421 --> 00:09:08,671
<i>of time doing was to try</i>

152
00:09:08,673 --> 00:09:12,133
<i>and influence the Moroccans'
decision-making process</i>

153
00:09:12,134 --> 00:09:13,724
<i>in our favor.</i>

154
00:09:14,178 --> 00:09:17,178
<i>It did take our Moroccan
colleagues quite some time</i>

155
00:09:17,181 --> 00:09:21,351
<i>to fully understand why we
were investing so much</i>

156
00:09:21,352 --> 00:09:22,692
<i>time and resources.</i>

157
00:09:22,687 --> 00:09:25,567
<i>dramatic music </i>

158
00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:27,605
<i>I was focused on trying
to explain to them</i>

159
00:09:27,608 --> 00:09:29,738
<i>the level of violence they
were prepared to use,</i>

160
00:09:29,735 --> 00:09:33,235
<i>showing them some of the CCTV
footage from the robbery.</i>

161
00:09:33,239 --> 00:09:36,279
<i>dramatic music </i>

162
00:09:36,284 --> 00:09:40,204
<i>The video showed automatic
weapons, body armor,</i>

163
00:09:40,204 --> 00:09:43,424
<i>some of them were
wearing police uniforms.</i>

164
00:09:45,042 --> 00:09:47,382
<i>The fact that they
had kidnapped people,</i>

165
00:09:47,378 --> 00:09:49,338
<i>put people in cages.</i>

166
00:09:49,338 --> 00:09:52,968
<i>dramatic music </i>

167
00:09:52,967 --> 00:09:56,047
<i>However, that wasn't what
they were looking for,</i>

168
00:09:56,053 --> 00:09:58,723
<i>and I wasn't sure what
they were looking for.</i>

169
00:09:59,098 --> 00:10:02,728
<i>I had not expected to have</i>

170
00:10:02,727 --> 00:10:05,437
<i>succeeded in the way that I did.</i>

171
00:10:06,897 --> 00:10:07,897
<i>But there came a point</i>

172
00:10:07,898 --> 00:10:10,688
<i>where I was showing them
the hired truck reversing</i>

173
00:10:10,693 --> 00:10:12,573
<i>into the back of the depot.</i>

174
00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:16,660
<i>One of the robbers has got
Mrs. Dixon by the neck.</i>

175
00:10:16,657 --> 00:10:19,367
<i>There's the son there as well.</i>

176
00:10:19,368 --> 00:10:22,198
<i>dramatic music </i>

177
00:10:22,204 --> 00:10:24,504
<i>The Prosecutor General
put his hands up</i>

178
00:10:24,498 --> 00:10:25,998
<i>and asked me to stop.</i>

179
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,000
<i>I was asked to leave the room.</i>

180
00:10:28,002 --> 00:10:30,382
<i>They were gonna have a meeting.</i>

181
00:10:30,379 --> 00:10:34,299
<i>Every day I was asked how
my wife and children are.</i>

182
00:10:34,300 --> 00:10:36,890
<i>And I had never, ever
given it a second thought.</i>

183
00:10:36,886 --> 00:10:37,846
<i>I said, "They're very well.</i>

184
00:10:37,845 --> 00:10:39,055
<i>Thank you very much."</i>

185
00:10:39,055 --> 00:10:41,635
<i>But I never understood
in their culture</i>

186
00:10:41,641 --> 00:10:43,061
<i>that actually my wife
and children</i>

187
00:10:43,059 --> 00:10:45,309
<i>were more important than me.</i>

188
00:10:48,397 --> 00:10:49,187
<i>I was called back.</i>

189
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:50,520
<i>They effectively sat
me down and said,</i>

190
00:10:50,524 --> 00:10:53,494
<i>"Right, what is it</i>

191
00:10:53,486 --> 00:10:55,856
<i>that we can do for you
to help you?"</i>

192
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,370
<i>The decision to make the
arrest was a joint agreement</i>

193
00:10:59,367 --> 00:11:01,157
<i>by everybody.</i>

194
00:11:02,370 --> 00:11:04,460
<i>[Mus] There wasn't any crime
committed in Morocco,</i>

195
00:11:04,455 --> 00:11:09,875
<i>so I don't think
anyone was thinking that</i>

196
00:11:09,877 --> 00:11:12,047
<i>police could do anything.</i>

197
00:11:13,005 --> 00:11:15,835
<i>I do remember that
the last few days,</i>

198
00:11:15,841 --> 00:11:18,761
<i>Paul or Lee were
saying that, um,</i>

199
00:11:18,761 --> 00:11:22,181
<i>they think we might be
getting followed by someone.</i>

200
00:11:23,391 --> 00:11:25,691
<i>So on June 25th,</i>

201
00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:27,765
<i>we knew something weren't right</i>

202
00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:30,650
<i>because they showed
themselves, really, to us.</i>

203
00:11:30,648 --> 00:11:32,648
<i>They were right behind us,</i>

204
00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:34,690
<i>like right behind us.</i>

205
00:11:35,611 --> 00:11:37,741
<i>June 25th, it was
quite a long day.</i>

206
00:11:37,738 --> 00:11:39,778
<i>We had an early start.</i>

207
00:11:39,782 --> 00:11:42,412
<i>And we were very much relying
on intelligence coming</i>

208
00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:46,500
<i>from the Moroccans to know
what was going to happen next.</i>

209
00:11:46,497 --> 00:11:49,997
<i>gentle dramatic music </i>

210
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,840
<i>[Mus] The World Cup was on,</i>

211
00:11:51,836 --> 00:11:53,706
<i>so we just drove to the mall,</i>

212
00:11:53,713 --> 00:11:57,173
<i>me, Paul and Lee.</i>

213
00:11:59,635 --> 00:12:01,135
<i>It was like a
nice place to go,</i>

214
00:12:01,137 --> 00:12:03,807
<i>big screens and all chairs,</i>

215
00:12:03,806 --> 00:12:07,176
<i>all set out in the mall
where the food place is.</i>

216
00:12:07,476 --> 00:12:09,726
<i>[Dave E.] Moroccan authorities
dropped us off</i>

217
00:12:09,729 --> 00:12:12,769
<i>at the Mega Mall during
the World Cup and told,</i>

218
00:12:12,773 --> 00:12:13,773
<i>"Go and have some lunch.</i>

219
00:12:13,774 --> 00:12:16,364
<i>We'll get back to you
as soon as we can."</i>

220
00:12:16,652 --> 00:12:18,032
<i>[Mus] We jumped out of the car,</i>

221
00:12:18,028 --> 00:12:20,658
<i>walking into the mall.</i>

222
00:12:20,656 --> 00:12:22,366
<i>Opened the door to
walk in the mall.</i>

223
00:12:22,366 --> 00:12:25,866
<i>Everyone in front of us just
turned into undercover police.</i>

224
00:12:25,870 --> 00:12:27,620
<i>Everyone just pulled out guns,</i>

225
00:12:27,621 --> 00:12:29,001
<i>started wrapping us up,</i>

226
00:12:28,998 --> 00:12:31,128
<i>bending us up, beating us.</i>

227
00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:33,875
<i>It was like a full-on attack.</i>

228
00:12:33,878 --> 00:12:36,378
<i>Maybe they thought we was
gonna fight back or something,</i>

229
00:12:36,380 --> 00:12:39,220
<i>I don't know, so they just
went in full-handed</i>

230
00:12:39,216 --> 00:12:43,716
<i>and just took us down
with force,</i>

231
00:12:43,721 --> 00:12:45,641
<i>no fucking about.</i>

232
00:12:46,223 --> 00:12:49,313
<i>[Dave E.] Smoke, shouting
and screaming.</i>

233
00:12:49,310 --> 00:12:53,650
<i>Something told us that it was
probably to do with our job.</i>

234
00:12:54,273 --> 00:12:57,033
<i>[Mus] This is not no
normal police officers.</i>

235
00:12:57,026 --> 00:12:59,236
<i>They were like a
trained tactical unit.</i>

236
00:12:59,236 --> 00:13:02,236
<i>And they took us down
like we was terrorists.</i>

237
00:13:02,239 --> 00:13:04,619
<i>That's the way they-they
handled it.</i>

238
00:13:04,617 --> 00:13:07,447
<i>It was quite impressive.
[chuckles]</i>

239
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,160
<i>[Mus] And then they throw
us in the back of the van,</i>

240
00:13:10,164 --> 00:13:14,214
<i>handcuffed like we were just
piled just like bits of meat.</i>

241
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:18,170
<i>And we was in the back of the
van for about an hour or so.</i>

242
00:13:19,507 --> 00:13:21,587
<i>[Dave E.] I got a phone call
from Moroccan police,</i>

243
00:13:21,592 --> 00:13:22,472
<i>"Yeah, it's on.</i>

244
00:13:22,468 --> 00:13:23,338
<i>Where are you?</i>

245
00:13:23,344 --> 00:13:24,804
<i>You're required."</i>

246
00:13:25,513 --> 00:13:26,433
<i>There was a police van,</i>

247
00:13:26,430 --> 00:13:29,350
<i>and our detained persons
were on the floor.</i>

248
00:13:30,142 --> 00:13:32,272
<i>[Mus] There was English
police officers there</i>

249
00:13:32,269 --> 00:13:33,899
<i>when we got arrested that day.</i>

250
00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:35,226
<i>They didn't directly speak to us</i>

251
00:13:35,231 --> 00:13:37,941
<i>because, obviously, they're
not supposed to be there,</i>

252
00:13:37,942 --> 00:13:40,282
<i>or they was doing some
fuckeries, weren't they?</i>

253
00:13:40,277 --> 00:13:43,447
<i>So they were there,
but they weren't there.</i>

254
00:13:44,198 --> 00:13:46,238
<i>[Dave E.] Lee Murray got put in
the back of a police car.</i>

255
00:13:46,242 --> 00:13:47,992
<i>They put a hood on his face.</i>

256
00:13:47,993 --> 00:13:49,753
<i>He was handcuffed.</i>

257
00:13:49,745 --> 00:13:52,405
<i>I remember him being fed
some chips at one point</i>

258
00:13:52,414 --> 00:13:55,424
<i>whilst the search
was sort of going on.</i>

259
00:13:55,918 --> 00:13:58,168
<i>We recovered this
gold Mercedes,</i>

260
00:13:58,170 --> 00:13:59,670
<i>a rocket on wheels.</i>

261
00:14:00,047 --> 00:14:02,007
<i>[Andy] Searches happened
at the villa</i>

262
00:14:02,007 --> 00:14:03,177
<i>where they were staying.</i>

263
00:14:03,175 --> 00:14:05,795
<i>The rooms that they were
occupying were identified.</i>

264
00:14:05,803 --> 00:14:08,563
<i>And in those rooms were
found a number of watches.</i>

265
00:14:09,265 --> 00:14:10,975
<i>[Dave E.] I've never seen
anything quite like it,</i>

266
00:14:10,975 --> 00:14:11,925
<i>personally.</i>

267
00:14:11,934 --> 00:14:14,194
<i>They were worth a fortune.</i>

268
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,690
<i>[Andy] Audemars Piguet,
Franck Muller,</i>

269
00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:18,609
<i>Cartier, Rolex,</i>

270
00:14:18,607 --> 00:14:21,687
<i>some of them must have
been 30,000 pounds a watch.</i>

271
00:14:22,236 --> 00:14:23,446
<i>And also cocaine.</i>

272
00:14:23,445 --> 00:14:26,065
<i>And this is something
that's very dimly viewed</i>

273
00:14:26,073 --> 00:14:28,493
<i>by the Moroccan authorities.</i>

274
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,710
<i>Four months from him leaving
the country to being arrested.</i>

275
00:14:33,706 --> 00:14:36,286
<i>dramatic music </i>

276
00:14:36,292 --> 00:14:38,462
<i>[Paul] This was a major
national story,</i>

277
00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:40,340
<i>that he'd been
arrested in Morocco,</i>

278
00:14:40,337 --> 00:14:42,917
<i>and a spectacular
arrest it was too.</i>

279
00:14:43,132 --> 00:14:44,722
<i>[newswoman] Kent Police
had been tracking the man</i>

280
00:14:44,717 --> 00:14:45,797
<i>for three months.</i>

281
00:14:45,801 --> 00:14:49,181
<i>But it was Moroccan officers
who led the operation.</i>

282
00:14:49,179 --> 00:14:52,849
<i>dramatic music </i>

283
00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:54,810
<i>[Mus] Obviously, we thought
it's something to do</i>

284
00:14:54,810 --> 00:14:57,100
<i>with the robbery.</i>

285
00:14:57,688 --> 00:15:00,268
<i>But we was all baffled
because we was in Morocco</i>

286
00:15:00,274 --> 00:15:02,284
<i>and no crime got
committed there,</i>

287
00:15:02,276 --> 00:15:06,066
<i>so we still didn't understand
why we was in there.</i>

288
00:15:08,449 --> 00:15:11,869
<i>And then they took us into the
police station into a room,</i>

289
00:15:11,869 --> 00:15:14,289
<i>handcuffed our feet as well,</i>

290
00:15:14,288 --> 00:15:15,868
<i>hoods over our heads.</i>

291
00:15:17,291 --> 00:15:20,591
<i>I think we was handcuffed
to the radiator...</i>

292
00:15:21,045 --> 00:15:24,205
<i>and like, we was in a chain--
me, Lee, Paul,</i>

293
00:15:24,214 --> 00:15:25,934
<i>our feet together.</i>

294
00:15:25,925 --> 00:15:29,005
<i>dramatic music </i>

295
00:15:29,011 --> 00:15:32,351
<i>And we was in the
room for about,</i>

296
00:15:32,348 --> 00:15:34,978
<i>I think it was about
four or five days.</i>

297
00:15:35,768 --> 00:15:38,058
<i>No food, no water.</i>

298
00:15:38,479 --> 00:15:41,859
<i>We thought we
was gonna die,</i>

299
00:15:41,857 --> 00:15:42,607
<i>literally.</i>

300
00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:44,818
<i>We didn't know what
was happening.</i>

301
00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:48,074
<i>Then they got us each
into a room separately</i>

302
00:15:48,072 --> 00:15:51,452
<i>and started doing
interviews with us.</i>

303
00:15:52,368 --> 00:15:54,198
<i>They're speaking
broken English:</i>

304
00:15:54,203 --> 00:15:55,543
<i>"Is this your name?"</i>

305
00:15:55,537 --> 00:15:56,707
<i>Writing it down.</i>

306
00:15:56,705 --> 00:15:58,115
<i>"Do you take drugs?"</i>

307
00:15:58,123 --> 00:16:00,003
<i>And I was saying, "No."</i>

308
00:16:00,459 --> 00:16:03,089
<i>Afterwards we found out that
they've put the opposite</i>

309
00:16:03,087 --> 00:16:04,297
<i>of whatever we said.</i>

310
00:16:04,296 --> 00:16:07,676
<i>It made us look like we
said we take drugs,</i>

311
00:16:07,675 --> 00:16:09,465
<i>but we didn't.</i>

312
00:16:25,985 --> 00:16:29,235
<i>Lee has never, as an adult,
taken drugs.</i>

313
00:16:29,238 --> 00:16:31,198
<i>He did drink,
but he didn't smoke,</i>

314
00:16:31,198 --> 00:16:32,908
<i>and he didn't do drugs.</i>

315
00:16:32,908 --> 00:16:34,578
<i>The Kent Police knew this.</i>

316
00:16:34,576 --> 00:16:39,666
<i>They know who in Lee's circle
took drugs at that time.</i>

317
00:16:41,208 --> 00:16:45,418
<i>[Dave] Lee Murray was gonna
fight again for us in 2006.</i>

318
00:16:45,421 --> 00:16:46,881
<i>He was training every day.</i>

319
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,050
<i>He couldn't come
back to this country,</i>

320
00:16:48,048 --> 00:16:50,218
<i>but it was either sort a
fight out in Amsterdam</i>

321
00:16:50,217 --> 00:16:51,507
<i>or sort a fight in Morocco.</i>

322
00:16:51,510 --> 00:16:54,760
<i>"I'm coming back on a fight
for middleweight title."</i>

323
00:16:54,972 --> 00:16:56,682
<i>[Mus] He's a fitness freak,
isn't he?</i>

324
00:16:56,682 --> 00:16:59,022
<i>So he's always been</i>

325
00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,058
<i>on his fighting thing
and on his fitness.</i>

326
00:17:01,061 --> 00:17:03,861
<i>He's never been
on a drugs thing.</i>

327
00:17:04,398 --> 00:17:07,148
<i>soft dramatic music </i>

328
00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:08,321
<i>There was no trial at that time.</i>

329
00:17:08,318 --> 00:17:11,158
<i>It was just a hearing.</i>

330
00:17:12,322 --> 00:17:14,032
<i>And when we first
went into court,</i>

331
00:17:14,033 --> 00:17:15,913
<i>they said that they was
charging us with</i>

332
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:17,909
<i>fighting with the police</i>

333
00:17:17,911 --> 00:17:20,331
<i>and for drugs
found at the house.</i>

334
00:17:20,330 --> 00:17:21,170
<i>Whoever's drugs they were,</i>

335
00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:22,415
<i>they took the rap for the drugs</i>

336
00:17:22,416 --> 00:17:24,916
<i>and they told them
that that was theirs</i>

337
00:17:24,918 --> 00:17:26,748
<i>and it wasn't me or Lee.</i>

338
00:17:27,254 --> 00:17:29,264
<i>[Andy] The drugs, they
were Paul Allen's.</i>

339
00:17:29,256 --> 00:17:32,586
<i>He claimed that in court
at some point later on.</i>

340
00:17:32,593 --> 00:17:35,683
<i>They slightly put our
process to one side</i>

341
00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:38,809
<i>and they charged them with
offenses around the drugs</i>

342
00:17:38,807 --> 00:17:40,807
<i>and of assaulting
police officers</i>

343
00:17:40,809 --> 00:17:41,889
<i>when they were arrested.</i>

344
00:17:41,894 --> 00:17:44,614
<i>They arrested us and then
said that we fight the police.</i>

345
00:17:44,605 --> 00:17:47,355
<i>So what was the reason
they come to arrest us for</i>

346
00:17:47,357 --> 00:17:48,477
<i>in the first place?</i>

347
00:17:48,484 --> 00:17:51,034
<i>Because we didn't fight the
police in the first place,</i>

348
00:17:51,028 --> 00:17:53,108
<i>so why did they come?</i>

349
00:17:53,113 --> 00:17:54,993
<i>It doesn't make no sense at all.</i>

350
00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:59,080
<i>Who would fight 50 police
with guns?</i>

351
00:17:59,328 --> 00:18:00,788
<i>Who's gonna do that?</i>

352
00:18:00,788 --> 00:18:02,038
<i>It just didn't happen.</i>

353
00:18:02,247 --> 00:18:03,207
<i>They beat us up.</i>

354
00:18:03,207 --> 00:18:05,957
<i>Lee's legs, I think,
was all busted up.</i>

355
00:18:05,959 --> 00:18:07,539
<i>We all just got battered.</i>

356
00:18:07,544 --> 00:18:10,464
<i>I think that was the only thing
they could use at that time</i>

357
00:18:10,464 --> 00:18:15,394
<i>to get us held there while
they worked out their plan,</i>

358
00:18:15,385 --> 00:18:17,755
<i>made up fake accusations.</i>

359
00:18:20,307 --> 00:18:21,767
<i>They just took us
straight to the prison</i>

360
00:18:21,767 --> 00:18:24,097
<i>and we got remanded.</i>

361
00:18:25,395 --> 00:18:28,435
<i>Power of England got us
wrapped up in another country</i>

362
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,940
<i>for crimes that we didn't
commit in that country.</i>

363
00:18:32,528 --> 00:18:35,698
<i>Maddest situation that
anyone's been in, I think.</i>

364
00:18:35,697 --> 00:18:38,577
<i>dramatic music </i>

365
00:18:38,575 --> 00:18:42,615
<i>At this point I'm scared, worried,</i>

366
00:18:42,621 --> 00:18:45,121
<i>thinking, "What the fuck's
going on?"</i>

367
00:18:45,916 --> 00:18:47,326
<i>Put us in the hole,</i>

368
00:18:47,334 --> 00:18:51,714
<i>so they can keep an
eye on us more.</i>

369
00:18:52,089 --> 00:18:55,379
<i>Lee got put next door to me,</i>

370
00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:58,184
<i>and Paul got put in
another part of the prison.</i>

371
00:18:58,554 --> 00:19:01,814
<i>Windows with bars on it,
but no glass in it.</i>

372
00:19:01,807 --> 00:19:03,227
<i>You'd get frostbite.</i>

373
00:19:03,225 --> 00:19:05,095
<i>When it rained,
the water would come in.</i>

374
00:19:05,102 --> 00:19:07,442
<i>When it snowed,
the snow would come in.</i>

375
00:19:07,437 --> 00:19:09,857
<i>Everywhere, there's cockroaches.</i>

376
00:19:10,524 --> 00:19:13,694
<i>You've got a hole in the
floor for your toilet there.</i>

377
00:19:13,986 --> 00:19:15,356
<i>The rats come out of the toilet.</i>

378
00:19:15,362 --> 00:19:17,112
<i>You have to put a
bottle in the toilet</i>

379
00:19:17,114 --> 00:19:19,204
<i>to stop them coming out.</i>

380
00:19:19,199 --> 00:19:22,539
<i>soft dramatic music </i>

381
00:19:22,536 --> 00:19:24,536
<i>I think it must have been a
good two or three months</i>

382
00:19:24,538 --> 00:19:26,538
<i>until we went to court again.</i>

383
00:19:26,540 --> 00:19:30,340
<i>And then as soon as we went
to court the second time,</i>

384
00:19:30,335 --> 00:19:33,125
<i>they just adjourned it
for another three months.</i>

385
00:19:33,547 --> 00:19:35,167
<i>Went back to court again,</i>

386
00:19:35,174 --> 00:19:36,684
<i>got adjourned again.</i>

387
00:19:36,675 --> 00:19:39,085
<i>And we went back for
another three months.</i>

388
00:19:39,678 --> 00:19:41,848
<i>We was in solitary
for the whole time.</i>

389
00:19:43,307 --> 00:19:44,267
<i>Even the guards,</i>

390
00:19:44,266 --> 00:19:45,926
<i>they said the longest
someone's been in there was,</i>

391
00:19:45,934 --> 00:19:48,444
<i>like, two weeks, in solitary.</i>

392
00:19:48,437 --> 00:19:50,227
<i>They didn't understand
what was going on.</i>

393
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:52,520
<i>They've never seen anything
like this before in their lives.</i>

394
00:19:52,524 --> 00:19:54,284
<i>They just kept adjourning it
and adjourning it,</i>

395
00:19:54,276 --> 00:19:57,106
<i>adjourning it, until finally,
when we did go to court</i>

396
00:19:57,112 --> 00:19:59,032
<i>and get sentenced,</i>

397
00:19:59,031 --> 00:20:00,491
<i>we got eight months.</i>

398
00:20:00,490 --> 00:20:03,580
<i>But we was already in
there for 14 months,</i>

399
00:20:03,577 --> 00:20:06,117
<i>even though the person
whose drugs it was stood up</i>

400
00:20:06,121 --> 00:20:08,421
<i>and said that it was his drugs,</i>

401
00:20:08,415 --> 00:20:10,705
<i>and we still got charged for it.</i>

402
00:20:11,543 --> 00:20:13,463
<i>No, we never fought
the police, no.</i>

403
00:20:13,962 --> 00:20:16,672
<i>We didn't know really
what was happening.</i>

404
00:20:18,425 --> 00:20:19,885
<i>[Andy] They were convicted
and sentenced</i>

405
00:20:19,885 --> 00:20:21,005
<i>for those offenses,</i>

406
00:20:21,011 --> 00:20:25,811
<i>which then gave the Moroccans
time to deal with our request.</i>

407
00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:28,635
<i>[Mus] We heard rumors
from family,</i>

408
00:20:28,644 --> 00:20:30,774
<i>"This is what's
going on in England."</i>

409
00:20:30,771 --> 00:20:33,481
<i>But no one said to us
that we was in prison</i>

410
00:20:33,482 --> 00:20:36,862
<i>for any robbery in England.</i>

411
00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:40,950
<i>[siren wailing]</i>

412
00:20:40,948 --> 00:20:44,278
<i>[newsman] 16 months after
Britain's biggest cash heist,</i>

413
00:20:44,284 --> 00:20:46,664
<i>six of those accused of
being part of it were brought</i>

414
00:20:46,662 --> 00:20:50,582
<i>to the Old Bailey, amidst
the tightest of security.</i>

415
00:20:50,874 --> 00:20:52,964
<i>There was certainly an
issue from the very beginning</i>

416
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,210
<i>of the case, that two of the
main defendants were missing.</i>

417
00:20:57,965 --> 00:21:03,045
<i>We very much hoped to extradite
those two, um, villains.</i>

418
00:21:03,053 --> 00:21:05,473
<i>But we had to get
on with the case</i>

419
00:21:05,472 --> 00:21:08,232
<i>as best we could without them.</i>

420
00:21:08,225 --> 00:21:11,895
<i>The defendants were Lea Rusha,</i>

421
00:21:15,899 --> 00:21:17,939
<i>Stuart Royle,</i>

422
00:21:19,403 --> 00:21:21,953
<i>a man called Bucpapa,</i>

423
00:21:23,156 --> 00:21:24,736
<i>Ermir Hysenaj,</i>

424
00:21:24,741 --> 00:21:27,911
<i>Hysenaj, of course,
the inside man,</i>

425
00:21:27,911 --> 00:21:30,501
<i>and Roger Coutts,</i>

426
00:21:30,497 --> 00:21:35,917
<i>responsible for tying the
hands of the employees</i>

427
00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:37,959
<i>with cable ties.</i>

428
00:21:38,797 --> 00:21:43,257
<i>They were alleged to be
kidnappers and robbers,</i>

429
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:47,680
<i>with a caveat that it
was impossible to know</i>

430
00:21:47,681 --> 00:21:51,311
<i>which of them had
been kidnappers.</i>

431
00:21:52,728 --> 00:21:54,688
<i>And then John Fowler,</i>

432
00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:59,108
<i>who was the man who
owned the flop,</i>

433
00:21:59,109 --> 00:22:00,779
<i>as it's known,</i>

434
00:22:00,777 --> 00:22:04,237
<i>the place where the robbers
took the kidnapped victims</i>

435
00:22:04,239 --> 00:22:07,489
<i>before the robbery and
divided up the money.</i>

436
00:22:08,869 --> 00:22:11,749
<i>And then there
was Michelle Hogg,</i>

437
00:22:11,747 --> 00:22:16,337
<i>who had prepared the
prosthetic masks,</i>

438
00:22:17,294 --> 00:22:19,094
<i>and a man called Borer,</i>

439
00:22:19,087 --> 00:22:24,507
<i>who had helped to change the
identity of a post office van,</i>

440
00:22:24,509 --> 00:22:28,179
<i>which the kidnappers
used for the purposes</i>

441
00:22:28,180 --> 00:22:30,020
<i>of the conspiracies.</i>

442
00:22:30,682 --> 00:22:35,352
<i>I was amazed by the
quantity of evidence.</i>

443
00:22:36,355 --> 00:22:39,605
<i>Really professional villains</i>

444
00:22:39,608 --> 00:22:42,278
<i>do not leave behind</i>

445
00:22:42,277 --> 00:22:44,737
<i>trails of evidence</i>

446
00:22:44,738 --> 00:22:47,318
<i>which allow the police</i>

447
00:22:47,324 --> 00:22:51,504
<i>to amass a strong
case against them.</i>

448
00:22:51,495 --> 00:22:54,285
<i>These defendants left behind</i>

449
00:22:54,289 --> 00:22:58,339
<i>their DNA on the prosthetics.</i>

450
00:22:58,794 --> 00:23:02,884
<i>Really professional
criminals don't leave behind</i>

451
00:23:02,881 --> 00:23:06,261
<i>the balaclava with
their DNA all over it.</i>

452
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,430
<i>This was more Keystone Cops
than The Italian Job.</i>

453
00:23:12,015 --> 00:23:16,395
<i>But that said, it required a
certain amount of chutzpah,</i>

454
00:23:16,395 --> 00:23:18,515
<i>and they showed it.</i>

455
00:23:19,231 --> 00:23:21,861
<i>[Paul] The Chief Prosecutor
was Sir John Nutting, QC,</i>

456
00:23:21,858 --> 00:23:23,738
<i>unquestionably, at that time,</i>

457
00:23:23,735 --> 00:23:26,145
<i>Britain's leading prosecutor.</i>

458
00:23:26,154 --> 00:23:30,164
<i>It was his last case, so he
was keen to go out on a high</i>

459
00:23:30,158 --> 00:23:32,868
<i>in terms of large
prison sentences.</i>

460
00:23:33,537 --> 00:23:36,417
<i>When Sir John Nutting rose,
I wasn't the only one</i>

461
00:23:36,415 --> 00:23:38,375
<i>with butterflies and sort
of nerves in my hands</i>

462
00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:41,085
<i>as we prepared to take down
the start of the trial.</i>

463
00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:46,511
<i>[Sir John] I get to my
feet and I say this:</i>

464
00:23:46,508 --> 00:23:52,348
<i>"On the night of
Tuesday/Wednesday the 21st/22nd</i>

465
00:23:52,347 --> 00:23:56,557
<i>of February, 2006,</i>

466
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,900
<i>a robbery occurred in Kent.</i>

467
00:24:02,274 --> 00:24:03,824
<i>In all the circumstances,</i>

468
00:24:03,817 --> 00:24:06,567
<i>it is perhaps not surprising</i>

469
00:24:06,570 --> 00:24:10,780
<i>that the defenses which
Securitas had put in place</i>

470
00:24:10,782 --> 00:24:13,242
<i>to prevent a robbery,</i>

471
00:24:13,243 --> 00:24:16,003
<i>although perhaps not perfect,</i>

472
00:24:15,996 --> 00:24:20,666
<i>should have proved vulnerable
to men driven by greed</i>

473
00:24:20,667 --> 00:24:25,297
<i>and with the advantages
not only of an inside man</i>

474
00:24:25,297 --> 00:24:27,257
<i>but professional assistance</i>

475
00:24:27,257 --> 00:24:29,757
<i>in the creation of disguises."</i>

476
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:33,469
<i>And I invited the jury
to follow the spore</i>

477
00:24:33,472 --> 00:24:37,522
<i>of the evidence
identifying the defendants.</i>

478
00:24:41,438 --> 00:24:42,768
<i>[Graeme] I defended Lea Rusha.</i>

479
00:24:42,772 --> 00:24:47,612
<i>He did mixed martial arts and
was connected with Lee Murray.</i>

480
00:24:47,611 --> 00:24:50,321
<i>Those two were
deemed by the police</i>

481
00:24:50,322 --> 00:24:53,992
<i>to be probably the
two main organizers.</i>

482
00:24:53,992 --> 00:24:57,622
<i>Lee Murray was portrayed
as basically the mastermind,</i>

483
00:24:57,621 --> 00:25:01,211
<i>the man who was at the
center of the plot.</i>

484
00:25:01,875 --> 00:25:03,245
<i>There was reporting
restrictions placed on it</i>

485
00:25:03,251 --> 00:25:05,881
<i>because, obviously, at that
time he was still abroad.</i>

486
00:25:05,879 --> 00:25:07,709
<i>So we couldn't report
the name Lee Murray</i>

487
00:25:07,714 --> 00:25:08,724
<i>throughout the trial,</i>

488
00:25:08,715 --> 00:25:10,715
<i>yet it kept on coming up
and coming up,</i>

489
00:25:10,717 --> 00:25:12,297
<i>"He's the one responsible,
not me.</i>

490
00:25:12,302 --> 00:25:13,182
<i>I'm innocent.</i>

491
00:25:13,178 --> 00:25:14,098
<i>It's Lee Murray.</i>

492
00:25:14,095 --> 00:25:15,505
<i>Murray's the man."</i>

493
00:25:16,473 --> 00:25:18,063
<i>At that time, it was
blowing up.</i>

494
00:25:18,058 --> 00:25:18,888
<i>Everyone was...</i>

495
00:25:18,892 --> 00:25:20,772
<i>But we didn't see none of that,</i>

496
00:25:20,769 --> 00:25:21,939
<i>because we was there.</i>

497
00:25:21,937 --> 00:25:23,607
<i>So we didn't even know
what was going on.</i>

498
00:25:23,605 --> 00:25:25,105
<i>We didn't see no newspapers.</i>

499
00:25:25,106 --> 00:25:27,566
<i>We didn't even know that
it blew up like that</i>

500
00:25:27,567 --> 00:25:29,527
<i>and they were saying
that Lee was a mastermind</i>

501
00:25:29,528 --> 00:25:31,658
<i>and whatever crap
they were saying.</i>

502
00:26:30,005 --> 00:26:32,665
<i>[Graeme] We had a conference
with Lea Rusha.</i>

503
00:26:32,674 --> 00:26:34,054
<i>I remember advising him:</i>

504
00:26:34,050 --> 00:26:38,140
<i>"Look, don't speak, just listen,</i>

505
00:26:38,138 --> 00:26:41,598
<i>because the evidence
is exceptionally</i>

506
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:42,930
<i>strong against you.</i>

507
00:26:42,934 --> 00:26:47,114
<i>I've got 34 points which
you're gonna have to cover</i>

508
00:26:47,105 --> 00:26:49,605
<i>if you wanna get
acquitted of this case."</i>

509
00:26:50,025 --> 00:26:52,525
<i>The forensics, the maps,</i>

510
00:26:52,527 --> 00:26:56,157
<i>links to stashes of money,</i>

511
00:26:56,156 --> 00:26:57,776
<i>and firearms.</i>

512
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,500
<i>That's hard to say, I mean...</i>

513
00:27:10,045 --> 00:27:12,545
<i>To a certain extent,</i>

514
00:27:12,547 --> 00:27:14,297
<i>what happened with Colin Dixon</i>

515
00:27:14,299 --> 00:27:15,719
<i>and the coincidences.</i>

516
00:27:15,717 --> 00:27:19,047
<i>gentle dramatic music </i>

517
00:27:19,054 --> 00:27:22,974
<i>For example, he'd
taken photographs</i>

518
00:27:22,974 --> 00:27:24,734
<i>of some of the staff.</i>

519
00:27:24,726 --> 00:27:28,226
<i>And they were recovered
from his laptop at his home.</i>

520
00:27:28,647 --> 00:27:30,897
<i>That was against
the company policy,</i>

521
00:27:30,899 --> 00:27:33,279
<i>to have any photographs
of any staff</i>

522
00:27:33,276 --> 00:27:36,656
<i>outside of the building.</i>

523
00:27:37,656 --> 00:27:40,196
<i>There was no report
to the police</i>

524
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,790
<i>about his failing
to turn up at home.</i>

525
00:27:44,329 --> 00:27:48,709
<i>It struck us that she
hadn't reported it</i>

526
00:27:48,708 --> 00:27:49,788
<i>and that he was, what,</i>

527
00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:51,423
<i>two, two and a half hours late</i>

528
00:27:51,419 --> 00:27:53,249
<i>turning up at home.</i>

529
00:27:53,254 --> 00:27:56,934
<i>Then there was the fact that,
prior to the robbery,</i>

530
00:27:56,925 --> 00:27:59,835
<i>there had been a system in place</i>

531
00:27:59,844 --> 00:28:02,894
<i>whereby there would be
two separate key holders</i>

532
00:28:02,889 --> 00:28:04,179
<i>for the vault.</i>

533
00:28:04,182 --> 00:28:09,272
<i>But he set up a system involving
two safes outside his room.</i>

534
00:28:09,938 --> 00:28:12,938
<i>And he was the only one who
had codes to those safes</i>

535
00:28:12,941 --> 00:28:15,491
<i>that you needed to
access the vault.</i>

536
00:28:15,485 --> 00:28:18,355
<i>He had both keys.</i>

537
00:28:19,030 --> 00:28:20,870
<i>At one stage, he had a top
and a bottom key</i>

538
00:28:20,865 --> 00:28:22,695
<i>and he shouldn't have had.</i>

539
00:28:23,993 --> 00:28:26,833
<i>[Graeme] And then there
was the delay afterwards.</i>

540
00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:28,210
<i>After the robbers had left,</i>

541
00:28:28,206 --> 00:28:30,826
<i>he waited before he
sounded the alarm.</i>

542
00:28:32,168 --> 00:28:34,088
<i>[Chris] The depot manager,
Colin Dixon,</i>

543
00:28:34,087 --> 00:28:36,257
<i>behaved extremely strangely,</i>

544
00:28:36,256 --> 00:28:40,586
<i>deliberately sort of delaying
the call to the police</i>

545
00:28:40,593 --> 00:28:43,393
<i>after the robbery
for 30 minutes.</i>

546
00:28:43,388 --> 00:28:46,098
<i>dramatic music </i>

547
00:28:46,099 --> 00:28:49,099
<i>Colin Dixon had
to explain away</i>

548
00:28:49,102 --> 00:28:52,732
<i>some strange conduct.</i>

549
00:28:53,815 --> 00:28:57,395
<i>Colin Dixon had been
clearly instructed,</i>

550
00:28:57,402 --> 00:28:58,652
<i>as the manager,</i>

551
00:28:58,653 --> 00:29:01,163
<i>that if he was ever
stopped by a policeman,</i>

552
00:29:01,156 --> 00:29:03,906
<i>he must not get out of his car,</i>

553
00:29:03,908 --> 00:29:07,908
<i>but that he must show
the policeman a document</i>

554
00:29:07,912 --> 00:29:10,042
<i>indicating his job</i>

555
00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:14,709
<i>and agree then to follow
to a police station.</i>

556
00:29:15,170 --> 00:29:18,760
<i>He didn't do that
when he was waylaid.</i>

557
00:29:18,757 --> 00:29:21,967
<i>He's not supposed to stop
the car to the police</i>

558
00:29:21,968 --> 00:29:24,718
<i>and get out of the car
for any reason,</i>

559
00:29:24,721 --> 00:29:26,431
<i>for anything.</i>

560
00:29:28,183 --> 00:29:30,893
<i>[Sir John] Armed with those
aspects of his behavior,</i>

561
00:29:30,894 --> 00:29:34,194
<i>the defense alleged he
was part of the robbery.</i>

562
00:29:34,564 --> 00:29:36,444
<i>"Was Colin the inside man?"</i>

563
00:29:36,441 --> 00:29:41,031
<i>At the trial they asked me that,
and that was my...</i>

564
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:44,069
<i>That was my initial
gut reaction.</i>

565
00:29:44,616 --> 00:29:47,696
<i>[Anca] Knowing the few protocols
that he didn't follow properly,</i>

566
00:29:47,702 --> 00:29:50,662
<i>I can say that
probably he can be...</i>

567
00:29:50,663 --> 00:29:52,623
<i>He can be the
inside man as well.</i>

568
00:29:52,624 --> 00:29:55,844
<i>Our theory was that
he got cold feet.</i>

569
00:29:55,835 --> 00:29:59,875
<i>When he decided not to</i>

570
00:29:59,881 --> 00:30:03,551
<i>carry through with the robbery,</i>

571
00:30:03,551 --> 00:30:08,851
<i>that's when others decided to
force his hand, so to speak.</i>

572
00:30:11,184 --> 00:30:12,604
<i>[knocking on door]</i>

573
00:30:13,770 --> 00:30:16,650
<i>That's why we took
the line that we did</i>

574
00:30:16,648 --> 00:30:19,228
<i>and cross-examined Colin Dixon</i>

575
00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:20,744
<i>to the extent that we did,</i>

576
00:30:20,735 --> 00:30:23,775
<i>because I think he'd been
interviewed over 45 times</i>

577
00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:24,820
<i>by the police.</i>

578
00:30:24,823 --> 00:30:27,833
<i>You don't interview
someone 45 times</i>

579
00:30:27,826 --> 00:30:30,196
<i>if you didn't believe
they had nothing to hide.</i>

580
00:30:30,203 --> 00:30:32,873
<i>There's just so many coincidences</i>

581
00:30:32,872 --> 00:30:34,752
<i>and so many things that,</i>

582
00:30:34,749 --> 00:30:38,549
<i>had he not changed or
not done that night,</i>

583
00:30:38,545 --> 00:30:39,995
<i>this doesn't happen.</i>

584
00:30:40,004 --> 00:30:43,474
<i>The defense made an
awful lot of this</i>

585
00:30:43,466 --> 00:30:47,756
<i>and sort of portrayed him as
maybe the original inside man</i>

586
00:30:47,762 --> 00:30:50,142
<i>who'd bottled it, hadn't
gone along with it,</i>

587
00:30:50,139 --> 00:30:54,479
<i>and had to be sort of forced
at gunpoint with his family.</i>

588
00:31:01,776 --> 00:31:02,986
<i>Yes.</i>

589
00:32:25,109 --> 00:32:28,819
<i>He probably had something
to do with this.</i>

590
00:32:28,821 --> 00:32:30,701
<i>But they had to make a choice.</i>

591
00:32:30,698 --> 00:32:33,908
<i>I think that without the victim</i>

592
00:32:33,910 --> 00:32:36,160
<i>and the victims,</i>

593
00:32:36,162 --> 00:32:38,002
<i>without them,</i>

594
00:32:37,997 --> 00:32:39,707
<i>it is just a heist.</i>

595
00:32:39,707 --> 00:32:42,207
<i>It is just a bank robbery.</i>

596
00:32:42,210 --> 00:32:45,840
<i>You don't have that-</i>

597
00:32:45,838 --> 00:32:47,918
<i>that public support.</i>

598
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:51,929
<i>We did investigate
this at some length.</i>

599
00:32:51,928 --> 00:32:53,178
<i>Did he follow protocol?</i>

600
00:32:53,179 --> 00:32:56,059
<i>No, he didn't, because these
people had taken him hostage.</i>

601
00:32:56,057 --> 00:32:57,637
<i>They'd shown him firearms,</i>

602
00:32:57,642 --> 00:32:58,692
<i>stuck them to his head,</i>

603
00:32:58,685 --> 00:33:01,055
<i>and then shown him his
child and his wife.</i>

604
00:33:01,062 --> 00:33:02,862
<i>And he was terrified.</i>

605
00:33:02,855 --> 00:33:05,315
<i>He just wanted
everything to go smoothly</i>

606
00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:07,066
<i>'cause he just
wanted it over with</i>

607
00:33:07,068 --> 00:33:09,528
<i>and he maintained that
just to try and get it over</i>

608
00:33:09,529 --> 00:33:11,609
<i>and done with as
quickly as possible.</i>

609
00:33:12,198 --> 00:33:14,368
<i>[Paul] I watched Colin Dixon
give evidence.</i>

610
00:33:14,367 --> 00:33:17,287
<i>The look in his eyes and
the sort of pleading,</i>

611
00:33:17,286 --> 00:33:18,366
<i>"This is the truth.</i>

612
00:33:18,371 --> 00:33:20,751
<i>I have never ever ever been
in anything like this."</i>

613
00:33:20,748 --> 00:33:22,378
<i>And he was like this.</i>

614
00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,165
<i>The jurists were
not having this.</i>

615
00:33:24,168 --> 00:33:25,998
<i>They had made their
mind up already</i>

616
00:33:26,004 --> 00:33:28,304
<i>that Colin Dixon
was a wronged man.</i>

617
00:33:28,297 --> 00:33:30,507
<i>He's not a man who
had done wrong.</i>

618
00:33:32,343 --> 00:33:36,063
<i>[Adrian] These people carried
live automatic weapons</i>

619
00:33:36,055 --> 00:33:37,135
<i>and kidnapped people,</i>

620
00:33:37,140 --> 00:33:39,020
<i>held them against their will,</i>

621
00:33:39,017 --> 00:33:40,977
<i>held an eight-year-old
child at gunpoint.</i>

622
00:33:40,977 --> 00:33:42,397
<i>This is a callous crime</i>

623
00:33:42,395 --> 00:33:44,555
<i>by armed criminals.</i>

624
00:35:34,382 --> 00:35:35,172
<i>Yes.</i>

625
00:35:35,174 --> 00:35:38,184
<i>He was on the
periphery of this case.</i>

626
00:35:38,177 --> 00:35:40,297
<i>Lea Rusha's case is
that Sean Lupton was</i>

627
00:35:40,304 --> 00:35:43,524
<i>one of the organizers
of the conspiracy</i>

628
00:35:43,516 --> 00:35:48,476
<i>and that he got us
inadvertently involved,</i>

629
00:35:48,479 --> 00:35:52,529
<i>getting us to do tasks for
him and things like that.</i>

630
00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:58,660
<i>He then became a central
part of Lea Rusha's case.</i>

631
00:35:58,656 --> 00:36:03,906
<i>One or two of the robbers
had a link to Herne Bay, oddly,</i>

632
00:36:03,911 --> 00:36:07,211
<i>quite a truthful
link to Herne Bay,</i>

633
00:36:07,206 --> 00:36:09,206
<i>where the Dixons lived,
of course.</i>

634
00:36:09,208 --> 00:36:11,668
<i>dramatic music </i>

635
00:36:11,669 --> 00:36:13,549
<i>[Therese] Herne Bay is
definitely an area</i>

636
00:36:13,546 --> 00:36:16,546
<i>where everybody knows everybody.</i>

637
00:36:16,549 --> 00:36:19,179
<i>It's quite a small
town in that way.</i>

638
00:36:19,844 --> 00:36:23,764
<i>I think it's possible that
Sean probably gave others</i>

639
00:36:23,764 --> 00:36:28,484
<i>that were involved
information regarding</i>

640
00:36:28,477 --> 00:36:32,017
<i>the bank manager and his wife,
possible.</i>

641
00:36:33,357 --> 00:36:37,857
<i>I met Sean at a party, 1983.</i>

642
00:36:38,613 --> 00:36:40,113
<i>He worked in construction.</i>

643
00:36:40,114 --> 00:36:41,874
<i>He was a builder.</i>

644
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,040
<i>Both seemed to want
the same things:</i>

645
00:36:44,035 --> 00:36:45,285
<i>to settle down,</i>

646
00:36:45,286 --> 00:36:46,616
<i>have a family,</i>

647
00:36:46,621 --> 00:36:49,041
<i>have a nice life, really.</i>

648
00:36:49,790 --> 00:36:51,920
<i>Sean was born with a
weakness of the muscle</i>

649
00:36:51,918 --> 00:36:53,088
<i>at the back of the eye.</i>

650
00:36:53,085 --> 00:36:56,125
<i>It would just turn
inwards sometimes,</i>

651
00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:58,380
<i>especially if he was tired.</i>

652
00:36:59,050 --> 00:37:01,260
<i>Someone actually
said to me once,</i>

653
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:02,140
<i>"I can't believe it,</i>

654
00:37:02,136 --> 00:37:05,306
<i>I thought you were
the perfect family,"</i>

655
00:37:05,306 --> 00:37:07,346
<i>after everything happened.</i>

656
00:37:08,726 --> 00:37:11,516
<i>Sean used to meet Stuart Royle
and they used to go</i>

657
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,610
<i>and have a cooked
breakfast together.</i>

658
00:37:13,606 --> 00:37:15,816
<i>Different things Sean told
me about Stuart Royle,</i>

659
00:37:15,816 --> 00:37:17,526
<i>I didn't really like
the sound of him.</i>

660
00:37:17,526 --> 00:37:19,276
<i>He said he had
some money problems</i>

661
00:37:19,278 --> 00:37:23,028
<i>and that he owed
somebody some money.</i>

662
00:37:25,034 --> 00:37:29,754
<i>Sean, liked some movies,
especially "Ocean's Eleven."</i>

663
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:33,540
<i>I saw him watching
that movie quite a lot</i>

664
00:37:33,542 --> 00:37:37,422
<i>of times just before
the robbery took place.</i>

665
00:37:37,421 --> 00:37:40,301
<i>dramatic music </i>

666
00:37:40,299 --> 00:37:41,629
<i>The night of the robbery,</i>

667
00:37:41,634 --> 00:37:45,104
<i>Sean said he was
going out to fit blinds</i>

668
00:37:45,096 --> 00:37:48,266
<i>and that he would
be back later.</i>

669
00:37:50,476 --> 00:37:52,016
<i>The next day,</i>

670
00:37:52,019 --> 00:37:54,309
<i>I think he came in about seven.</i>

671
00:37:56,732 --> 00:37:59,652
<i>He never came home
at all that night, no.</i>

672
00:38:00,403 --> 00:38:02,243
<i>We had a television
in the kitchen</i>

673
00:38:02,238 --> 00:38:04,408
<i>and the news had come on</i>

674
00:38:04,407 --> 00:38:06,827
<i>to say that there'd
been this robbery.</i>

675
00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:09,579
<i>And then Sean came in the room</i>

676
00:38:09,578 --> 00:38:10,788
<i>as cool as a cucumber</i>

677
00:38:10,788 --> 00:38:13,578
<i>and said, "Did they say
they've got the gang</i>

678
00:38:13,582 --> 00:38:15,582
<i>that have done that robbery?"</i>

679
00:38:15,584 --> 00:38:17,804
<i>And then walked off laughing.</i>

680
00:38:19,338 --> 00:38:20,588
<i>Oh, yes, here's a...</i>

681
00:38:20,589 --> 00:38:22,879
<i>Here was a bit with Lupton.</i>

682
00:38:22,883 --> 00:38:24,433
<i>I've forgotten this.</i>

683
00:38:24,427 --> 00:38:29,057
<i>At 2:36 a.m.,</i>

684
00:38:29,056 --> 00:38:33,096
<i>Royle's mobile activated</i>

685
00:38:33,102 --> 00:38:35,272
<i>as a result of a call</i>

686
00:38:35,271 --> 00:38:40,111
<i>from a mobile belonging to
a man named Sean Lupton,</i>

687
00:38:40,109 --> 00:38:44,109
<i>two minutes after the robbers</i>

688
00:38:44,113 --> 00:38:45,873
<i>left the depot.</i>

689
00:38:46,532 --> 00:38:51,122
<i>Lupton's mobile was situated
at or in the vicinity</i>

690
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,290
<i>of Elderden Farm,</i>

691
00:38:53,289 --> 00:38:54,869
<i>at the flop.</i>

692
00:38:54,874 --> 00:38:59,504
<i>Was Lupton's frayed patience
wearing a little thin</i>

693
00:38:59,503 --> 00:39:02,723
<i>by 2:36 in the morning?</i>

694
00:39:05,176 --> 00:39:06,136
<i>[Andy] We were pretty certain</i>

695
00:39:06,135 --> 00:39:09,135
<i>that Sean Lupton
helped Stuart Royle</i>

696
00:39:09,138 --> 00:39:11,178
<i>get his cut of the money,</i>

697
00:39:11,182 --> 00:39:12,392
<i>get it
out of the country,</i>

698
00:39:12,391 --> 00:39:14,141
<i>eight million pounds.</i>

699
00:39:14,143 --> 00:39:17,193
<i>dramatic music </i>

700
00:39:17,188 --> 00:39:19,938
<i>That money was somehow packaged</i>

701
00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:23,780
<i>and given to a fixer
in Northern Cyprus.</i>

702
00:39:24,153 --> 00:39:27,453
<i>And he arranged for the money
to be flown out as cargo.</i>

703
00:39:27,823 --> 00:39:29,203
<i>It went to Northern Cyprus,</i>

704
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,490
<i>where it was
delivered to the fixer.</i>

705
00:39:31,494 --> 00:39:34,254
<i>And he was to launder
it for Stuart Royle.</i>

706
00:39:34,246 --> 00:39:35,366
<i>He didn't.</i>

707
00:39:35,373 --> 00:39:36,623
<i>He nicked it.</i>

708
00:39:36,624 --> 00:39:41,884
<i>dramatic music </i>

709
00:39:45,841 --> 00:39:47,591
<i>[Therese] Six o'clock
in the morning.</i>

710
00:39:47,593 --> 00:39:49,013
<i>We were in bed.</i>

711
00:39:49,011 --> 00:39:50,551
<i>The doorbell went</i>

712
00:39:50,554 --> 00:39:51,934
<i>and I remember Sean said to me,</i>

713
00:39:51,931 --> 00:39:54,351
<i>"You know what this is,
don't you?"</i>

714
00:39:54,350 --> 00:39:56,890
<i>And I said, "No."</i>

715
00:39:57,603 --> 00:39:59,273
<i>Sean did have a
smile on his face</i>

716
00:39:59,271 --> 00:40:00,861
<i>when he was talking
to the police.</i>

717
00:40:00,856 --> 00:40:03,526
<i>He seemed very laid back
about everything,</i>

718
00:40:03,526 --> 00:40:05,486
<i>not worried at all.</i>

719
00:40:05,736 --> 00:40:08,606
<i>I remember Dad
walking up the stairs,</i>

720
00:40:08,614 --> 00:40:11,664
<i>going to get changed, um,</i>

721
00:40:11,659 --> 00:40:14,369
<i>no glance back, nothing.</i>

722
00:40:14,370 --> 00:40:17,330
<i>Walked back down the stairs
after he'd got changed,</i>

723
00:40:17,331 --> 00:40:18,871
<i>and I heard them say that,</i>

724
00:40:18,874 --> 00:40:23,964
<i>"You are being arrested on
conspiracy to kidnap and rob."</i>

725
00:40:25,923 --> 00:40:28,633
<i>They dug through the garden,</i>

726
00:40:28,634 --> 00:40:31,434
<i>tore up all the carpets.</i>

727
00:40:31,929 --> 00:40:35,559
<i>[Therese] They found
10,450 pounds.</i>

728
00:40:36,392 --> 00:40:38,772
<i>Sean was arrested and
put on police bail,</i>

729
00:40:38,769 --> 00:40:40,689
<i>which means you
don't pay any money.</i>

730
00:40:40,688 --> 00:40:45,068
<i>You just have to
report at certain times</i>

731
00:40:45,067 --> 00:40:46,607
<i>to the police station.</i>

732
00:40:48,446 --> 00:40:51,906
<i>It was December the 12th, 2006,
in the morning.</i>

733
00:40:52,783 --> 00:40:54,583
<i>The children were at school.</i>

734
00:40:54,827 --> 00:40:57,497
<i>Sean, he went to work,</i>

735
00:40:57,496 --> 00:40:58,826
<i>left,</i>

736
00:40:58,831 --> 00:41:00,461
<i>and never came back.</i>

737
00:41:01,167 --> 00:41:02,787
<i>[Jasmine] Dad was always
there in the morning</i>

738
00:41:02,793 --> 00:41:04,553
<i>to do breakfast with us,</i>

739
00:41:04,545 --> 00:41:06,625
<i>but this morning, he wasn't.</i>

740
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:07,590
<i>"Something's not right.</i>

741
00:41:07,590 --> 00:41:08,550
<i>Dad isn't home."</i>

742
00:41:08,549 --> 00:41:11,139
<i>He went missing two weeks
before Christmas.</i>

743
00:41:11,135 --> 00:41:13,345
<i>Never heard from him again.</i>

744
00:41:13,762 --> 00:41:17,812
<i>Police informed me that
he'd spent his last day</i>

745
00:41:17,808 --> 00:41:19,598
<i>with a prostitute.</i>

746
00:41:20,478 --> 00:41:24,608
<i>There were bits of
information regarding drugs,</i>

747
00:41:24,607 --> 00:41:26,277
<i>dealing of drugs,</i>

748
00:41:26,275 --> 00:41:27,435
<i>that came to light.</i>

749
00:41:27,443 --> 00:41:29,903
<i>Basically learned that
I'd obviously been living</i>

750
00:41:29,904 --> 00:41:32,414
<i>with two different people.</i>

751
00:41:32,406 --> 00:41:35,156
<i>I was having a
breakdown at that time.</i>

752
00:41:36,535 --> 00:41:38,865
<i>Sean Lupton disappeared
off the face of the earth.</i>

753
00:41:38,871 --> 00:41:41,171
<i>We had an interest in him
and wanted to talk to him.</i>

754
00:41:41,165 --> 00:41:44,625
<i>He'd left his wife and his
kids, just abandoned them, gone.</i>

755
00:41:44,627 --> 00:41:50,337
<i>dramatic music </i>

756
00:41:51,175 --> 00:41:53,925
<i>[Paul] During the trial, we were
picking up certain vibes</i>

757
00:41:53,928 --> 00:41:56,218
<i>outside court amongst
various lawyers</i>

758
00:41:56,222 --> 00:41:58,562
<i>that there's something up here.</i>

759
00:41:58,891 --> 00:42:01,311
<i>What happened was that
the prosecution asked</i>

760
00:42:01,310 --> 00:42:02,690
<i>for an adjournment.</i>

761
00:42:02,686 --> 00:42:06,516
<i>We had very substantial
evidence of</i>

762
00:42:06,524 --> 00:42:08,234
<i>conspiracy to kidnap</i>

763
00:42:08,234 --> 00:42:09,744
<i>and conspiracy to rob.</i>

764
00:42:09,735 --> 00:42:12,695
<i>The problem in the case was</i>

765
00:42:12,696 --> 00:42:14,816
<i>that we did not know which</i>

766
00:42:14,823 --> 00:42:19,623
<i>of the defendants had actually
achieved the kidnapping.</i>

767
00:42:19,870 --> 00:42:23,540
<i>And then the other problem
was that we could not,</i>

768
00:42:23,541 --> 00:42:25,671
<i>with any certainty,</i>

769
00:42:25,668 --> 00:42:27,878
<i>associate any particular role</i>

770
00:42:27,878 --> 00:42:31,918
<i>to any of the defendants
in the robbery itself.</i>

771
00:42:32,383 --> 00:42:34,343
<i>We could make an educated guess,</i>

772
00:42:34,343 --> 00:42:37,683
<i>but the jury longed to be told</i>

773
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,810
<i>who did what.</i>

774
00:42:39,807 --> 00:42:42,387
<i>And that was really
where Miss Hogg</i>

775
00:42:42,393 --> 00:42:44,233
<i>came in.</i>

776
00:42:45,854 --> 00:42:48,824
<i>Her counsel came to me</i>

777
00:42:48,816 --> 00:42:52,946
<i>during the closing
stages of the case</i>

778
00:42:52,945 --> 00:42:55,815
<i>and told me that she was
willing to give evidence.</i>

779
00:42:55,823 --> 00:42:57,413
<i>Without her,</i>

780
00:42:57,408 --> 00:43:00,038
<i>their case was not watertight.</i>

781
00:43:00,786 --> 00:43:04,496
<i>[Sir John] Those who had been
kidnappers were disguised</i>

782
00:43:04,498 --> 00:43:05,958
<i>by Miss Hogg,</i>

783
00:43:05,958 --> 00:43:08,878
<i>and she was able to
reveal who they were.</i>

784
00:43:08,877 --> 00:43:12,417
<i>She was potentially a
very valuable witness.</i>

785
00:43:13,966 --> 00:43:16,886
<i>[William] She would only give
evidence for the prosecution</i>

786
00:43:16,885 --> 00:43:19,255
<i>if she was found not guilty.</i>

787
00:43:19,263 --> 00:43:22,643
<i>Her defense, as always,
was, "Yes, I did it.</i>

788
00:43:22,641 --> 00:43:25,731
<i>No, I didn't know they were
going to commit a robbery."</i>

789
00:43:26,395 --> 00:43:28,475
<i>I do not resile</i>

790
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,820
<i>from what I said to the
jury at the outset,</i>

791
00:43:31,817 --> 00:43:35,317
<i>which was that she knew
what she was about.</i>

792
00:43:35,613 --> 00:43:39,913
<i>Such men do not risk
an associate of the</i>

793
00:43:39,908 --> 00:43:41,908
<i>significance of Miss Hogg</i>

794
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:44,710
<i>without revealing what
they're doing.</i>

795
00:43:44,705 --> 00:43:46,955
<i>So it was a deal.</i>

796
00:43:46,957 --> 00:43:50,627
<i>It was set a thief
to catch a thief.</i>

797
00:43:50,628 --> 00:43:55,628
<i>It was, um, unashamedly
an agreement</i>

798
00:43:55,633 --> 00:43:57,803
<i>between Bill and I.</i>

799
00:43:57,801 --> 00:44:00,681
<i>We then had to, of course,
go back into court.</i>

800
00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:03,679
<i>Now, I sent a message
to the judge</i>

801
00:44:03,682 --> 00:44:07,442
<i>and asked for a good reason</i>

802
00:44:07,436 --> 00:44:10,806
<i>that she not go into
the dock that day</i>

803
00:44:10,814 --> 00:44:13,824
<i>but stand at the back of court.</i>

804
00:44:15,235 --> 00:44:17,855
<i>[Sir John] It's a
significant regret</i>

805
00:44:17,863 --> 00:44:21,493
<i>that I couldn't see the
faces of the defendants.</i>

806
00:44:21,909 --> 00:44:23,659
<i>But I then announced</i>

807
00:44:23,661 --> 00:44:27,001
<i>that the Crown was offering
no further evidence</i>

808
00:44:26,997 --> 00:44:28,537
<i>against Miss Hogg</i>

809
00:44:28,540 --> 00:44:30,380
<i>and that we were
calling Miss Hogg</i>

810
00:44:30,376 --> 00:44:32,836
<i>as a witness for
the prosecution.</i>

811
00:44:32,836 --> 00:44:34,796
<i>The moment he said that,</i>

812
00:44:34,797 --> 00:44:36,797
<i>the cat was out of the bag.</i>

813
00:44:36,799 --> 00:44:40,179
<i>[Andy] She walked across the
floor to the witness box,</i>

814
00:44:40,177 --> 00:44:41,717
<i>mid-trial.</i>

815
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,930
<i>That was an historical
moment in one</i>

816
00:44:43,931 --> 00:44:46,351
<i>of the biggest trials
in criminal history.</i>

817
00:44:47,226 --> 00:44:49,896
<i>"Thou shalt not grass"
is the 11th Commandment</i>

818
00:44:49,895 --> 00:44:51,105
<i>of criminal.</i>

819
00:44:51,105 --> 00:44:53,725
<i>Grass is somebody who informs.</i>

820
00:44:54,233 --> 00:44:56,653
<i>She was breaking the
underworld code,</i>

821
00:44:56,652 --> 00:44:57,652
<i>and that's--</i>

822
00:44:57,653 --> 00:44:58,953
<i>she was putting her
life in danger,</i>

823
00:44:58,946 --> 00:45:00,816
<i>even to the extent</i>

824
00:45:00,823 --> 00:45:03,913
<i>that she would be naming
those not in the dock,</i>

825
00:45:03,909 --> 00:45:05,909
<i>like Lee Murray and others,</i>

826
00:45:05,911 --> 00:45:08,041
<i>who she had also made up,</i>

827
00:45:08,038 --> 00:45:10,578
<i>and the danger that
they would pose to her.</i>

828
00:45:10,582 --> 00:45:12,002
<i>She was providing
the key information</i>

829
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,250
<i>that would lead to
their conviction.</i>

830
00:45:14,670 --> 00:45:15,920
<i>[Graeme] The phrase we
use over here is</i>

831
00:45:15,921 --> 00:45:18,051
<i>she went Queen's Evidence.</i>

832
00:45:18,382 --> 00:45:21,222
<i>She becomes effectively,
as they say, a grass,</i>

833
00:45:21,218 --> 00:45:23,678
<i>with all that may follow
from that in terms</i>

834
00:45:23,679 --> 00:45:27,889
<i>of who she might have upset
as a result of doing so.</i>

835
00:45:29,309 --> 00:45:32,899
<i>[William] And she could
effectively destroy their cases</i>

836
00:45:32,896 --> 00:45:35,016
<i>and ensure their conviction.</i>

837
00:45:35,023 --> 00:45:38,193
<i>She was their biggest
problem in that case.</i>

838
00:45:39,194 --> 00:45:43,704
<i>Michelle Hogg was
a poor little thing.</i>

839
00:45:44,366 --> 00:45:47,366
<i>It wasn't until I
called her as a witness</i>

840
00:45:47,369 --> 00:45:50,909
<i>that I really appreciated</i>

841
00:45:50,914 --> 00:45:53,884
<i>what a pathetic, uh,</i>

842
00:45:53,876 --> 00:45:55,876
<i>creature she was.</i>

843
00:45:56,545 --> 00:45:59,165
<i>She moaned and wailed.</i>

844
00:45:59,506 --> 00:46:02,796
<i>She got very easily upset.</i>

845
00:46:03,135 --> 00:46:05,965
<i>She cried in the witness box,</i>

846
00:46:05,971 --> 00:46:08,311
<i>never a good thing.</i>

847
00:46:09,433 --> 00:46:11,523
<i>She had undoubtedly</i>

848
00:46:11,518 --> 00:46:14,398
<i>got herself involved</i>

849
00:46:14,396 --> 00:46:17,436
<i>in something which was</i>

850
00:46:17,441 --> 00:46:19,571
<i>way above her pay grade.</i>

851
00:46:20,694 --> 00:46:21,614
<i>[Paul] She shook.</i>

852
00:46:21,612 --> 00:46:22,992
<i>Her hands were shaking.</i>

853
00:46:22,988 --> 00:46:24,618
<i>Her voice was shaking.</i>

854
00:46:24,615 --> 00:46:27,985
<i>She was totally not
just white but gray,</i>

855
00:46:27,993 --> 00:46:30,203
<i>a sight of a woman in fear.</i>

856
00:46:30,204 --> 00:46:32,794
<i>She went through an
absolute torturous</i>

857
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:34,830
<i>hours and hours of
cross examination.</i>

858
00:46:35,083 --> 00:46:36,213
<i>[Graeme] "You're saying
that you're</i>

859
00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:38,590
<i>innocent of these offenses.</i>

860
00:46:39,129 --> 00:46:40,089
<i>I don't believe you.</i>

861
00:46:40,088 --> 00:46:41,918
<i>Sir John Nutting, who
sits right next to me,</i>

862
00:46:41,924 --> 00:46:43,134
<i>doesn't believe you.</i>

863
00:46:43,133 --> 00:46:44,803
<i>What do you say about that?</i>

864
00:46:45,219 --> 00:46:47,599
<i>You'd do anything to get
out of being prosecuted</i>

865
00:46:47,596 --> 00:46:49,636
<i>and ending up in prison."</i>

866
00:46:51,975 --> 00:46:54,305
<i>[Sir John] Miss Hogg's
identification</i>

867
00:46:54,311 --> 00:46:58,611
<i>of those to whom she applied
prosthetic masks,</i>

868
00:46:58,607 --> 00:47:01,487
<i>included Murray,</i>

869
00:47:02,778 --> 00:47:03,948
<i>Rusha,</i>

870
00:47:04,196 --> 00:47:06,616
<i>and Patterson.</i>

871
00:47:06,615 --> 00:47:09,825
<i>Keyinde Patterson had a twin,</i>

872
00:47:09,827 --> 00:47:13,867
<i>and that presented real
problems in relation</i>

873
00:47:13,872 --> 00:47:17,332
<i>to the DNA evidence,
for example.</i>

874
00:47:18,377 --> 00:47:21,167
<i>[Andy] Kane was the man
going into the depot</i>

875
00:47:21,171 --> 00:47:23,511
<i>with Colin Dixon, the kidnapper.</i>

876
00:47:23,507 --> 00:47:27,967
<i>dramatic music </i>

877
00:47:27,970 --> 00:47:30,680
<i>She sort of made Lee Murray
and Patterson...</i>

878
00:47:30,681 --> 00:47:33,681
<i>She gave them a
designer stubble look,</i>

879
00:47:33,976 --> 00:47:36,096
<i>applied a latex
nose to Lea Rusha.</i>

880
00:47:36,103 --> 00:47:37,983
<i>He didn't like it.</i>

881
00:47:40,065 --> 00:47:42,645
<i>And then she just lists
Stuart Royle,</i>

882
00:47:42,651 --> 00:47:44,241
<i>Jetmir Bucpapa,</i>

883
00:47:44,236 --> 00:47:46,356
<i>Roger Coutts, and Allen.</i>

884
00:47:46,905 --> 00:47:48,195
<i>[Andy] She names all of them.</i>

885
00:47:48,198 --> 00:47:50,828
<i>She doesn't name John Fowler.</i>

886
00:47:50,826 --> 00:47:52,826
<i>Well, she can't,
because he wasn't there.</i>

887
00:47:53,036 --> 00:47:55,616
<i>Everything she told us</i>

888
00:47:55,622 --> 00:47:56,872
<i>fit every defendant,</i>

889
00:47:56,874 --> 00:47:59,544
<i>exactly what we knew about them.</i>

890
00:48:00,627 --> 00:48:05,127
<i>Everything we had found
out through hard work,</i>

891
00:48:05,132 --> 00:48:07,382
<i>collecting evidence,</i>

892
00:48:07,384 --> 00:48:10,144
<i>following the spider's
web to the end,</i>

893
00:48:10,137 --> 00:48:13,597
<i>was found to be
justified and correct.</i>

894
00:48:15,183 --> 00:48:16,063
<i>[newswoman] Good evening.</i>

895
00:48:16,059 --> 00:48:17,769
<i>It was Britain's
biggest cash robbery,</i>

896
00:48:17,769 --> 00:48:19,609
<i>and today five men
have been found guilty</i>

897
00:48:19,605 --> 00:48:21,435
<i>of stealing 53 million pounds</i>

898
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,940
<i>from a Securitas depot
in Tonbridge in Kent.</i>

899
00:48:25,319 --> 00:48:26,569
<i>[Andy] The jury returned
guilty verdicts</i>

900
00:48:26,570 --> 00:48:30,910
<i>on all other than John
Fowler and Keith Borer.</i>

901
00:48:30,908 --> 00:48:34,828
<i>[Sir John] John Fowler,
who was acquitted,</i>

902
00:48:34,828 --> 00:48:39,628
<i>he certainly did things to, um,</i>

903
00:48:39,625 --> 00:48:41,455
<i>assist the robbers.</i>

904
00:48:41,752 --> 00:48:42,882
<i>[Paul] He persuaded the jury</i>

905
00:48:42,878 --> 00:48:45,008
<i>that he had no idea what
was going on,</i>

906
00:48:45,005 --> 00:48:45,955
<i>no idea.</i>

907
00:48:45,964 --> 00:48:47,514
<i>[Andy] He'd hired a
legitimate lorry,</i>

908
00:48:47,507 --> 00:48:50,637
<i>seven-and-a-half ton
Renault Midlum.</i>

909
00:48:50,636 --> 00:48:52,886
<i>But, obviously, Mr. Fowler
didn't know anything</i>

910
00:48:52,888 --> 00:48:55,138
<i>about the fact that they
had five armed robbers</i>

911
00:48:55,140 --> 00:48:58,640
<i>and three hostages in his
compound next to his house.</i>

912
00:48:58,644 --> 00:49:00,104
<i>Um...</i>

913
00:49:01,772 --> 00:49:05,152
<i>The judge gave Royle, Rusha,</i>

914
00:49:05,150 --> 00:49:07,190
<i>Bucpapa, and Coutts,</i>

915
00:49:07,194 --> 00:49:09,244
<i>what we call an
indeterminate sentence</i>

916
00:49:09,237 --> 00:49:10,777
<i>for public protection.</i>

917
00:49:10,781 --> 00:49:11,871
<i>They go to prison</i>

918
00:49:11,865 --> 00:49:13,445
<i>and it's indeterminate
the length of time</i>

919
00:49:13,450 --> 00:49:16,790
<i>they spend in there, but they
have a minimum tariff,</i>

920
00:49:16,787 --> 00:49:20,077
<i>and their minimum tariff
was 15 years each.</i>

921
00:49:20,082 --> 00:49:22,332
<i>Michelle Hogg has gone
into witness protection</i>

922
00:49:22,334 --> 00:49:24,254
<i>because she's given</i>

923
00:49:24,252 --> 00:49:26,462
<i>Queen's Evidence on
behalf of the Crown,</i>

924
00:49:26,463 --> 00:49:29,683
<i>which has led to the
conviction of these men.</i>

925
00:49:31,927 --> 00:49:33,097
<i>[Paul] There were
certainly stories</i>

926
00:49:33,095 --> 00:49:35,255
<i>of a seven-million-pound
contract that would be</i>

927
00:49:35,263 --> 00:49:38,893
<i>taken out on her life,
presumably by those</i>

928
00:49:38,892 --> 00:49:40,392
<i>not before the court who,</i>

929
00:49:40,394 --> 00:49:43,984
<i>if they could take out a key
witness like Michelle Hogg,</i>

930
00:49:43,981 --> 00:49:46,651
<i>it would be less chance
of being convicted.</i>

931
00:49:47,901 --> 00:49:53,991
<i>[people yelling]</i>

932
00:49:54,324 --> 00:49:55,994
<i>[woman] Just fuck off,
the lot of you!</i>

933
00:49:55,993 --> 00:49:57,663
<i>God, leave us alone!
-Okay, okay, okay.</i>

934
00:49:57,661 --> 00:49:58,871
<i>[woman] Just leave us alone!</i>

935
00:49:58,870 --> 00:50:00,080
<i>Stop it!</i>

936
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,250
<i>Just stop taking her photo.</i>

937
00:50:02,249 --> 00:50:03,709
<i>We don't want it.</i>

938
00:50:03,709 --> 00:50:05,499
<i>We'll stop.
-Turn it off!</i>

939
00:50:48,754 --> 00:50:51,974
<i>[Nicola] My personal
opinion is that was concocted</i>

940
00:50:51,965 --> 00:50:54,505
<i>to imply that it was Lee.</i>

941
00:50:54,634 --> 00:50:56,474
<i>Nothing could have been
further from the truth.</i>

942
00:50:56,470 --> 00:51:00,220
<i>He was fighting to
survive in prison.</i>

943
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:19,120
<i>[Dave E.] The intention was to
extradite both Paul Allen</i>

944
00:51:19,117 --> 00:51:21,907
<i>and Lee Murray back-back
to Kent.</i>

945
00:51:21,912 --> 00:51:25,002
<i>We became aware that
Lee Murray could ask</i>

946
00:51:24,998 --> 00:51:26,498
<i>for Moroccan nationality,</i>

947
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:29,880
<i>and that would
hinder the process.</i>

948
00:51:29,878 --> 00:51:31,838
<i>Murray said,</i>

949
00:51:31,838 --> 00:51:32,918
<i>"I'm Moroccan.</i>

950
00:51:32,923 --> 00:51:33,883
<i>My father's Moroccan,</i>

951
00:51:33,882 --> 00:51:35,842
<i>so therefore I am a Moroccan."</i>

952
00:51:35,842 --> 00:51:38,142
<i>In Moroccan law, that is true.</i>

953
00:51:38,136 --> 00:51:39,386
<i>If anybody is Moroccan,</i>

954
00:51:39,387 --> 00:51:41,347
<i>they will not extradite them.</i>

955
00:51:41,348 --> 00:51:44,888
<i>It went all the way to
the Moroccan Supreme Court.</i>

956
00:51:45,769 --> 00:51:47,479
<i>[newsman] To Morocco now,
where judges are set</i>

957
00:51:47,479 --> 00:51:49,269
<i>to decide today
whether a key suspect</i>

958
00:51:49,272 --> 00:51:52,782
<i>in Britain's biggest cash
robbery will be extradited.</i>

959
00:51:53,443 --> 00:51:54,323
<i>I'm Morocco.</i>

960
00:51:54,319 --> 00:51:56,069
<i>My son is Morocco.</i>

961
00:51:56,071 --> 00:51:57,911
<i>That I can say.</i>

962
00:51:59,074 --> 00:52:00,454
<i>[newsman] Murray's
family and friends</i>

963
00:52:00,450 --> 00:52:04,450
<i>flew to the Moroccan capital
to await the judge's decision.</i>

964
00:52:04,454 --> 00:52:08,134
<i>dramatic music </i>

965
00:52:08,125 --> 00:52:09,665
<i>[Lilly] When I went
back to Morocco,</i>

966
00:52:09,668 --> 00:52:12,338
<i>we stayed, I think,
for a couple of months.</i>

967
00:52:12,337 --> 00:52:14,917
<i>My dad was in prison then.</i>

968
00:52:15,132 --> 00:52:17,932
<i>And I remember
having to go see him,</i>

969
00:52:17,926 --> 00:52:20,926
<i>having to leave him there,</i>

970
00:52:20,929 --> 00:52:21,929
<i>being so young</i>

971
00:52:21,930 --> 00:52:23,100
<i>and not knowing what's going on</i>

972
00:52:23,098 --> 00:52:24,638
<i>and why can't my dad come home,</i>

973
00:52:24,641 --> 00:52:28,811
<i>and it was literally
the worst thing ever.</i>

974
00:52:31,231 --> 00:52:32,571
<i>[newsman] Authorities in
Rabat have determined</i>

975
00:52:32,566 --> 00:52:34,566
<i>he is a Moroccan citizen.</i>

976
00:52:34,568 --> 00:52:36,898
<i>As such, he can't be extradited,</i>

977
00:52:36,903 --> 00:52:38,283
<i>foiling a bid by Kent Police</i>

978
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,120
<i>to return him to Britain
to face questioning</i>

979
00:52:41,116 --> 00:52:44,196
<i>over the country's
biggest-ever cash haul.</i>

980
00:52:44,786 --> 00:52:47,826
<i>[Andy] They said, "You can't
have Lee Murray.</i>

981
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:50,669
<i>You can have Paul Allen."</i>

982
00:52:51,459 --> 00:52:53,799
<i>They sign him over to us.</i>

983
00:52:54,337 --> 00:52:56,917
<i>Never been done, there wasn't
any extradition treaty.</i>

984
00:52:56,923 --> 00:53:00,343
<i>dramatic music </i>

985
00:53:00,343 --> 00:53:01,723
<i>[Mus] There's no extradition
treaty between</i>

986
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:04,310
<i>England and Morocco
that I've heard of.</i>

987
00:53:07,309 --> 00:53:09,229
<i>We don't know. [chuckles]</i>

988
00:53:10,812 --> 00:53:14,022
<i>[siren wailing]</i>

989
00:53:14,024 --> 00:53:16,444
<i>dramatic music </i>

990
00:53:16,443 --> 00:53:18,323
<i>[Nicola] When Paul was extradited,</i>

991
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,320
<i>they held a trial within a trial</i>

992
00:53:20,322 --> 00:53:23,702
<i>to test the evidence
gathered in Morocco.</i>

993
00:53:24,326 --> 00:53:27,366
<i>I've read all the transcripts
between Paul's barrister</i>

994
00:53:27,370 --> 00:53:28,750
<i>and Mick Judge.</i>

995
00:53:28,747 --> 00:53:32,037
<i>Mick Judge was the senior
investigating officer</i>

996
00:53:32,042 --> 00:53:33,002
<i>in this robbery.</i>

997
00:53:33,001 --> 00:53:36,001
<i>[Nicola] It is clear
from those transcripts,</i>

998
00:53:36,004 --> 00:53:38,424
<i>Kent Police put Lee and Paul</i>

999
00:53:38,423 --> 00:53:41,513
<i>under surveillance
24 hours a day.</i>

1000
00:53:41,509 --> 00:53:47,139
<i>dramatic music </i>

1001
00:53:49,100 --> 00:53:51,350
<i>Lee Murray was first
surveilled,</i>

1002
00:53:51,353 --> 00:53:53,733
<i>first watched by police
before his actual arrest</i>

1003
00:53:53,730 --> 00:53:58,440
<i>because of a routine
international police tool,</i>

1004
00:53:58,443 --> 00:54:02,993
<i>which is gathering as
much evidence as possible.</i>

1005
00:54:02,989 --> 00:54:05,529
<i>It all depends on the
quality of the relationship</i>

1006
00:54:05,533 --> 00:54:07,583
<i>with the given country.</i>

1007
00:54:07,577 --> 00:54:09,077
<i>The UK is one of the countries</i>

1008
00:54:09,079 --> 00:54:11,159
<i>that Morocco has a
great relationship with,</i>

1009
00:54:11,164 --> 00:54:13,834
<i>so friends do help friends.</i>

1010
00:54:14,542 --> 00:54:16,802
<i>[Nicola] Police in Morocco,
they weren't, you know,</i>

1011
00:54:16,795 --> 00:54:19,045
<i>looking at the
newspapers thinking,</i>

1012
00:54:19,047 --> 00:54:21,167
<i>"Oh, we need to
follow these guys."</i>

1013
00:54:21,174 --> 00:54:22,764
<i>There would be no reason
for them to do it.</i>

1014
00:54:22,759 --> 00:54:25,599
<i>They did not commit
a crime in Morocco.</i>

1015
00:54:25,595 --> 00:54:30,845
<i>dramatic music </i>

1016
00:54:35,981 --> 00:54:38,231
<i>[Giles] There are a number of
areas where the police</i>

1017
00:54:38,233 --> 00:54:40,613
<i>would appear to have
acted unlawfully.</i>

1018
00:54:40,610 --> 00:54:41,650
<i>It certainly appears</i>

1019
00:54:41,653 --> 00:54:43,703
<i>that the Kent Police were
ordering the Moroccans</i>

1020
00:54:43,697 --> 00:54:46,277
<i>to carry out surveillance
on their own behalf.</i>

1021
00:54:46,283 --> 00:54:48,493
<i>I believe that the Kent
Police were clearly operating</i>

1022
00:54:48,493 --> 00:54:50,203
<i>in a foreign country.</i>

1023
00:54:50,203 --> 00:54:51,503
<i>It's not allowed.</i>

1024
00:54:51,788 --> 00:54:53,708
<i>In that transcript,
it's really strange</i>

1025
00:54:53,707 --> 00:54:58,337
<i>that they would be only
asking for the arrest of Lee.</i>

1026
00:54:59,421 --> 00:55:01,131
<i>They knew that they
weren't allowed</i>

1027
00:55:01,131 --> 00:55:02,721
<i>to do what they were doing.</i>

1028
00:55:02,716 --> 00:55:06,586
<i>They didn't want to
look like they were</i>

1029
00:55:06,594 --> 00:55:08,644
<i>seeking the arrest of Paul</i>

1030
00:55:08,638 --> 00:55:11,978
<i>when there's not hard evidence.</i>

1031
00:55:11,975 --> 00:55:15,145
<i>They knew that they could
do what they'd done to us</i>

1032
00:55:15,145 --> 00:55:17,975
<i>and have no comeback
from it because</i>

1033
00:55:17,981 --> 00:55:19,821
<i>they're in Morocco.</i>

1034
00:55:30,785 --> 00:55:33,285
<i>At the end of it,
we had a hung jury,</i>

1035
00:55:33,288 --> 00:55:34,708
<i>which was very unusual.</i>

1036
00:55:34,706 --> 00:55:38,706
<i>We then said, "Right, we
will prosecute him again."</i>

1037
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,550
<i>Allen, as we know, then
came back some months later</i>

1038
00:55:42,547 --> 00:55:48,547
<i>and pleaded guilty to both
the conspiracy charges,</i>

1039
00:55:48,553 --> 00:55:50,063
<i>kidnap and robbery,</i>

1040
00:55:50,055 --> 00:55:52,095
<i>but on a specific basis</i>

1041
00:55:52,098 --> 00:55:53,808
<i>as to his participation.</i>

1042
00:55:53,808 --> 00:55:57,518
<i>[Andy] The only basis of plea
was that we accepted</i>

1043
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,070
<i>that we couldn't prove
he was in the depot.</i>

1044
00:56:00,357 --> 00:56:02,147
<i>We know who he was in there.</i>

1045
00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:03,530
<i>I've told you it's Hoodie.</i>

1046
00:56:03,526 --> 00:56:04,896
<i>And that is Paul Allen.</i>

1047
00:56:04,903 --> 00:56:07,493
<i>I am certain,</i>

1048
00:56:07,489 --> 00:56:08,949
<i>bet my life on it,</i>

1049
00:56:08,948 --> 00:56:10,618
<i>but,</i>

1050
00:56:10,617 --> 00:56:12,287
<i>can we prove it</i>

1051
00:56:12,285 --> 00:56:13,695
<i>beyond reasonable doubt</i>

1052
00:56:13,703 --> 00:56:15,463
<i>in a court of law?</i>

1053
00:56:15,455 --> 00:56:16,865
<i>Probably not.</i>

1054
00:56:30,512 --> 00:56:32,012
<i>He was given 18 years.</i>

1055
00:56:32,013 --> 00:56:34,393
<i>They counted his time
in Morocco towards that</i>

1056
00:56:34,391 --> 00:56:38,061
<i>because we were clearly
behind his arrest in Morocco.</i>

1057
00:56:39,687 --> 00:56:42,267
<i>He came out and has
subsequently been involved</i>

1058
00:56:42,273 --> 00:56:44,233
<i>in other criminality.</i>

1059
00:56:45,443 --> 00:56:46,823
<i>In 2019 he was shot</i>

1060
00:56:46,820 --> 00:56:50,450
<i>and is now paralyzed
as a result.</i>

1061
00:56:51,991 --> 00:56:53,951
<i>He now has a reputation,
doesn't he?</i>

1062
00:56:53,952 --> 00:56:56,202
<i>He's the man that took part in
one of the biggest robberies</i>

1063
00:56:56,204 --> 00:56:57,334
<i>in world history.</i>

1064
00:56:57,330 --> 00:56:59,170
<i>And he will use that.</i>

1065
00:56:59,165 --> 00:57:04,375
<i>dramatic music </i>

1066
00:57:05,004 --> 00:57:08,554
<i>We've still got this issue
with Lee Murray running,</i>

1067
00:57:08,550 --> 00:57:10,390
<i>so what do we do?</i>

1068
00:57:10,802 --> 00:57:12,392
<i>[Dave E.] Prosecutor General
informed me</i>

1069
00:57:12,387 --> 00:57:15,677
<i>that Lee Murray lawfully
gained Moroccan citizenship,</i>

1070
00:57:15,682 --> 00:57:19,892
<i>so at that point, I had to
buy some legal manuals.</i>

1071
00:57:21,521 --> 00:57:23,361
<i>[Andy] Dave Ecuyer
was a switched-on cookie</i>

1072
00:57:23,356 --> 00:57:24,896
<i>and a French speaker,
and he said,</i>

1073
00:57:24,899 --> 00:57:28,069
<i>"I'm gonna get a copy of
the Moroccan Penal Code."</i>

1074
00:57:29,487 --> 00:57:30,817
<i>[Dave E.] We do not extradite
foreign nationals.</i>

1075
00:57:30,822 --> 00:57:34,582
<i>However, we will accept
a request for prosecution</i>

1076
00:57:34,576 --> 00:57:37,246
<i>on the behalf of a
foreign jurisdiction.</i>

1077
00:57:37,245 --> 00:57:41,705
<i>We could look at instigating
judicial proceedings in Morocco</i>

1078
00:57:41,708 --> 00:57:45,418
<i>for the offenses
committed in-in the UK.</i>

1079
00:57:46,045 --> 00:57:48,715
<i>He said, "Why don't I
file a report of the crime</i>

1080
00:57:48,715 --> 00:57:50,875
<i>at the Securitas
robbery in Morocco?"</i>

1081
00:57:50,884 --> 00:57:53,304
<i>I said, "Sounds like a plan."</i>

1082
00:57:53,303 --> 00:57:55,723
<i>dramatic music </i>

1083
00:57:55,722 --> 00:57:59,642
<i>We sent a lot of the evidence
to one of their senior judges,</i>

1084
00:57:59,642 --> 00:58:01,352
<i>and he came to this country</i>

1085
00:58:01,352 --> 00:58:03,652
<i>and we briefed him
on the whole case.</i>

1086
00:58:05,523 --> 00:58:09,153
<i>[Dave E.] You know, we were
able to put the evidence</i>

1087
00:58:09,152 --> 00:58:10,402
<i>in a way that was acceptable</i>

1088
00:58:10,403 --> 00:58:13,203
<i>to the Ministry of Justice
in Morocco.</i>

1089
00:58:14,908 --> 00:58:19,498
<i>[Reda] The Moroccans culturally
do not like very violent crimes.</i>

1090
00:58:19,496 --> 00:58:22,576
<i>So the fact that
those cages were used</i>

1091
00:58:22,582 --> 00:58:25,292
<i>and shown to the
Moroccan authorities</i>

1092
00:58:25,293 --> 00:58:26,713
<i>probably played a big role</i>

1093
00:58:26,711 --> 00:58:31,881
<i>in deciding to
prosecute in Morocco.</i>

1094
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,770
<i>[Nicola] Morocco got
all of the bad bits.</i>

1095
00:59:27,772 --> 00:59:32,362
<i>He couldn't defend
himself against any of it.</i>

1096
00:59:33,069 --> 00:59:34,949
<i>[Reda] I believe that the
lawyers, previous lawyers,</i>

1097
00:59:34,946 --> 00:59:39,076
<i>of Lee Murray, they
were not thinking</i>

1098
00:59:39,075 --> 00:59:42,945
<i>that there would be
so much UK pressure</i>

1099
00:59:42,954 --> 00:59:45,214
<i>to try him to Morocco.</i>

1100
00:59:45,623 --> 00:59:48,543
<i>Morocco, and usually countries</i>

1101
00:59:48,543 --> 00:59:50,713
<i>that have legal Latin tradition,</i>

1102
00:59:50,712 --> 00:59:53,212
<i>follow what we call an
inquisitorial system.</i>

1103
00:59:53,214 --> 00:59:56,264
<i>The people will not decide on
whether you're guilty or not,</i>

1104
00:59:56,259 --> 00:59:57,389
<i>the judge will,</i>

1105
00:59:57,385 --> 01:00:00,135
<i>with an absolute
discretionary power.</i>

1106
01:00:00,638 --> 01:00:03,308
<i>There is no jury system.</i>

1107
01:00:03,308 --> 01:00:06,518
<i>There is no cross-examination.</i>

1108
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:07,729
<i>If you tell a judge,</i>

1109
01:00:07,729 --> 01:00:11,109
<i>"Your Honor, this person could
not have killed this person</i>

1110
01:00:11,107 --> 01:00:13,897
<i>because they were
100 miles away,</i>

1111
01:00:13,901 --> 01:00:17,491
<i>and I have 12 witnesses
who can attest to that,</i>

1112
01:00:17,488 --> 01:00:20,028
<i>that we were in a party
together."</i>

1113
01:00:20,033 --> 01:00:21,743
<i>"Thank you very much,
but I'm not interested</i>

1114
01:00:21,743 --> 01:00:23,083
<i>in your witnesses.</i>

1115
01:00:23,077 --> 01:00:24,447
<i>Move on."</i>

1116
01:00:25,872 --> 01:00:30,382
<i>The judge will be more prone</i>

1117
01:00:30,376 --> 01:00:32,416
<i>to defer to the prosecution</i>

1118
01:00:32,420 --> 01:00:33,800
<i>rather than to the defense.</i>

1119
01:00:33,796 --> 01:00:36,086
<i>I feel, and most lawyers
in Morocco</i>

1120
01:00:36,090 --> 01:00:38,050
<i>almost unanimously will feel,</i>

1121
01:00:38,051 --> 01:00:41,681
<i>very inferior and powerless</i>

1122
01:00:41,679 --> 01:00:44,099
<i>in front of the judge.</i>

1123
01:01:22,762 --> 01:01:23,812
<i>[Paul] I was astounded to hear</i>

1124
01:01:23,805 --> 01:01:26,095
<i>that the Moroccan
authorities were prepared</i>

1125
01:01:26,099 --> 01:01:29,059
<i>to put him on trial,
at their own expense,</i>

1126
01:01:29,060 --> 01:01:31,560
<i>for a crime that was
committed elsewhere.</i>

1127
01:01:31,979 --> 01:01:34,899
<i>It is almost unheard
of for a British citizen</i>

1128
01:01:34,899 --> 01:01:37,649
<i>to be charged in
a foreign country</i>

1129
01:01:37,652 --> 01:01:40,912
<i>for a crime committed
in the United Kingdom.</i>

1130
01:01:40,905 --> 01:01:42,615
<i>And the circumstances
in which we</i>

1131
01:01:42,615 --> 01:01:44,115
<i>in this country can try people</i>

1132
01:01:44,117 --> 01:01:46,737
<i>for crimes abroad
are extremely limited</i>

1133
01:01:46,744 --> 01:01:49,794
<i>and confined primarily
to war crimes</i>

1134
01:01:49,789 --> 01:01:53,749
<i>and to child sex offenses.</i>

1135
01:01:54,043 --> 01:01:57,803
<i>I personally don't
know of any other case</i>

1136
01:01:57,797 --> 01:02:02,387
<i>where a Moroccan has been</i>

1137
01:02:02,385 --> 01:02:04,635
<i>tried in Morocco for a
crime committed abroad.</i>

1138
01:02:04,637 --> 01:02:09,807
<i>It makes the Lee Murray
quite unique,</i>

1139
01:02:09,809 --> 01:02:10,939
<i>quite unique.</i>

1140
01:02:11,561 --> 01:02:14,021
<i>[Andy] They found him guilty
and sentenced him to 10 years</i>

1141
01:02:14,021 --> 01:02:15,771
<i>in prison in Morocco.</i>

1142
01:02:15,773 --> 01:02:17,613
<i>We thought that was a bit light</i>

1143
01:02:17,608 --> 01:02:19,898
<i>because he was the
leader of the gang.</i>

1144
01:02:19,902 --> 01:02:21,152
<i>He was the main
man sort of thing.</i>

1145
01:02:21,154 --> 01:02:23,244
<i>And we were a bit
disturbed at that.</i>

1146
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:25,779
<i>We asked what our
recourse was to this.</i>

1147
01:02:25,783 --> 01:02:27,833
<i>And the answer was that
our only recourse was</i>

1148
01:02:27,827 --> 01:02:30,707
<i>to appeal the leniency
of the sentence.</i>

1149
01:02:43,801 --> 01:02:45,971
<i>dramatic music </i>

1150
01:02:45,970 --> 01:02:47,890
<i>[Reda] In Morocco, in
criminal matters,</i>

1151
01:02:47,889 --> 01:02:51,019
<i>the prosecution automatically
appeals the case</i>

1152
01:02:51,017 --> 01:02:52,557
<i>all the time.</i>

1153
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,310
<i>You can pretty much be assured</i>

1154
01:02:54,312 --> 01:02:56,772
<i>that the sentence
will be increased.</i>

1155
01:02:58,316 --> 01:02:59,606
<i>[Andy] They came back and said,</i>

1156
01:02:59,609 --> 01:03:01,399
<i>"Yes, the sentence was wrong.</i>

1157
01:03:01,402 --> 01:03:04,782
<i>It was too lenient and we
sentenced him to 25 years."</i>

1158
01:03:05,698 --> 01:03:07,778
<i>[Nicola] 25 years,</i>

1159
01:03:07,784 --> 01:03:10,334
<i>and there's no early
release in Morocco.</i>

1160
01:03:10,328 --> 01:03:12,788
<i>There's no such thing
as parole, it's out.</i>

1161
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:14,999
<i>You are in for a long time
and you will ne--</i>

1162
01:03:14,999 --> 01:03:16,749
<i>you're not going to get out.</i>

1163
01:03:16,751 --> 01:03:19,881
<i>I think the biggest mistake
that Lee Murray made</i>

1164
01:03:19,879 --> 01:03:24,009
<i>is that he invoked his
Moroccan citizenship,</i>

1165
01:03:24,008 --> 01:03:26,678
<i>because had he not done that,</i>

1166
01:03:26,677 --> 01:03:30,847
<i>he would have been
extradited to the UK.</i>

1167
01:03:30,848 --> 01:03:32,428
<i>And from what I know,</i>

1168
01:03:32,433 --> 01:03:35,523
<i>he would have gotten a
much lighter sentence</i>

1169
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:36,810
<i>for this bank robbery.</i>

1170
01:03:37,063 --> 01:03:40,193
<i>I think absolutely
there was a desire</i>

1171
01:03:40,191 --> 01:03:42,651
<i>even at the political level
to ensure that this case</i>

1172
01:03:42,652 --> 01:03:44,452
<i>had been tried and people
were convicted.</i>

1173
01:03:44,445 --> 01:03:47,275
<i>The message here is even if you
go to a country like Morocco</i>

1174
01:03:47,281 --> 01:03:49,781
<i>and you commit a crime of
this nature, that the police,</i>

1175
01:03:49,784 --> 01:03:51,954
<i>certainly from Britain, will
come after you, you know,</i>

1176
01:03:51,953 --> 01:03:54,833
<i>and ultimately, as we've seen
here, you'll be convicted.</i>

1177
01:04:20,231 --> 01:04:24,071
<i>In Morocco, and in
most countries,</i>

1178
01:04:24,068 --> 01:04:27,198
<i>at the end of the day,</i>

1179
01:04:27,196 --> 01:04:30,366
<i>what the government wants,
the government gets.</i>

1180
01:04:31,784 --> 01:04:35,124
<i>dramatic music </i>

1181
01:04:35,121 --> 01:04:36,371
<i>[Mus] Lee didn't rob a bank,
did he?</i>

1182
01:04:36,372 --> 01:04:39,462
<i>He robbed the Bank of England,
which is</i>

1183
01:04:39,458 --> 01:04:42,248
<i>completely different
to robbing a bank.</i>

1184
01:04:42,962 --> 01:04:45,092
<i>You've robbed off
the government.</i>

1185
01:04:45,089 --> 01:04:47,259
<i>You're actually
robbing the Queen.</i>

1186
01:04:47,258 --> 01:04:49,758
<i>Lee pissed them off proper.</i>

1187
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,470
<i>dramatic music </i>

1188
01:04:52,471 --> 01:04:56,431
<i>[Nicola] They were gonna move
hell and heaven to get Lee.</i>

1189
01:04:56,976 --> 01:04:58,436
<i>They were gonna pull
out all of the stops</i>

1190
01:04:58,436 --> 01:05:01,396
<i>to take him down
as hard as possible</i>

1191
01:05:01,397 --> 01:05:06,777
<i>and see that he never sees
the light of day again.</i>

1192
01:05:09,614 --> 01:05:13,284
<i>It is an irony that, in
order to escape justice,</i>

1193
01:05:13,284 --> 01:05:15,584
<i>Lee Murray fled to a country
where he could be tried</i>

1194
01:05:15,578 --> 01:05:18,708
<i>for that very offense and
receive a stiffer penalty</i>

1195
01:05:18,706 --> 01:05:20,916
<i>than if he'd remained at home.</i>

1196
01:05:22,168 --> 01:05:25,798
<i>He's copped the longest
sentence in the worst conditions</i>

1197
01:05:25,796 --> 01:05:27,086
<i>of the entire gang,</i>

1198
01:05:27,089 --> 01:05:28,419
<i>from up here to down there.</i>

1199
01:05:28,424 --> 01:05:31,144
<i>There is no greater
fall from paradise</i>

1200
01:05:31,135 --> 01:05:33,175
<i>that you could possibly imagine.</i>

1201
01:05:33,179 --> 01:05:34,429
<i>They will all be
walking the streets</i>

1202
01:05:34,430 --> 01:05:37,890
<i>and breathing God's good air
while Murray is still</i>

1203
01:05:37,892 --> 01:05:40,982
<i>in a cesspit of a prison cell.</i>

1204
01:05:42,980 --> 01:05:44,230
<i>[Andy] Ermir Hysenaj
served his time.</i>

1205
01:05:44,231 --> 01:05:45,941
<i>He's been deported.</i>

1206
01:05:45,942 --> 01:05:48,072
<i>And Jetmir Bucpapa
has come to the end</i>

1207
01:05:48,069 --> 01:05:50,109
<i>of his 15 years minimum tariff.</i>

1208
01:05:50,112 --> 01:05:52,662
<i>And he has also been deported.</i>

1209
01:05:53,741 --> 01:05:58,621
<i>In prison in this country
is Lea Rusha, Stuart Royle,</i>

1210
01:05:58,621 --> 01:06:00,871
<i>and Roger Coutts.</i>

1211
01:06:00,873 --> 01:06:02,083
<i>They're coming to
that moment now</i>

1212
01:06:02,083 --> 01:06:03,583
<i>where decisions will be made
whether they should stay</i>

1213
01:06:03,584 --> 01:06:06,634
<i>in prison or whether they
can be released on parole.</i>

1214
01:06:10,675 --> 01:06:12,085
<i>I don't know.</i>

1215
01:06:12,635 --> 01:06:16,635
<i>Kane Patterson fled
the country as well.</i>

1216
01:06:17,139 --> 01:06:18,519
<i>He was of Jamaican origin</i>

1217
01:06:18,516 --> 01:06:20,686
<i>and he may well have
gone to the West Indies.</i>

1218
01:06:20,685 --> 01:06:22,935
<i>[newswoman] More than half
of the 53 million pounds</i>

1219
01:06:22,937 --> 01:06:24,607
<i>that was stolen
is still missing.</i>

1220
01:06:24,605 --> 01:06:25,475
<i>So where is it?</i>

1221
01:06:25,481 --> 01:06:27,111
<i>As we've heard
prosecutors say today,</i>

1222
01:06:27,108 --> 01:06:29,608
<i>the hunt for the money goes on.</i>

1223
01:06:29,610 --> 01:06:31,860
<i>I'd love to know</i>

1224
01:06:31,862 --> 01:06:33,362
<i>the whereabouts of the money,</i>

1225
01:06:33,364 --> 01:06:36,874
<i>how they got 32 million
clean away.</i>

1226
01:06:37,743 --> 01:06:40,833
<i>I'd love to know how much
went to the West Indies,</i>

1227
01:06:40,830 --> 01:06:43,170
<i>to Keyinde Patterson.</i>

1228
01:06:44,083 --> 01:06:47,253
<i>I'd love to know
whether Hysenaj</i>

1229
01:06:47,253 --> 01:06:50,173
<i>took possession of his money.</i>

1230
01:06:51,215 --> 01:06:56,005
<i>I'd love to know where
Royle's share is.</i>

1231
01:06:58,097 --> 01:07:02,137
<i>I'd love to know the whereabouts
of that 32 million quid.</i>

1232
01:07:03,019 --> 01:07:06,019
<i>It just seems to have
disappeared into the ether.</i>

1233
01:07:06,397 --> 01:07:10,477
<i>How do you lose 32 million
pounds without a trace?</i>

1234
01:07:11,610 --> 01:07:14,070
<i>That's one of the
mysteries of this case.</i>

1235
01:07:14,071 --> 01:07:18,201
<i>dramatic music </i>

1236
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,580
<i>[Jasmine] I was working at
a bar in Whitstable.</i>

1237
01:07:20,578 --> 01:07:23,288
<i>There was a lad that
came in and said,</i>

1238
01:07:23,289 --> 01:07:26,789
<i>"Oh, I've been with
your dad in Cyprus."</i>

1239
01:07:26,792 --> 01:07:28,132
<i>"Excuse me?"</i>

1240
01:07:28,794 --> 01:07:31,594
<i>He said that they were doing
building works out there,</i>

1241
01:07:31,589 --> 01:07:34,179
<i>which would fit because
Dad was a builder,</i>

1242
01:07:34,175 --> 01:07:37,545
<i>that they were in bars
laughing and joking.</i>

1243
01:07:38,262 --> 01:07:40,472
<i>I couldn't believe it,
because at that point,</i>

1244
01:07:40,473 --> 01:07:43,773
<i>we didn't know whether
he's dead or alive.</i>

1245
01:07:45,561 --> 01:07:47,861
<i>I find it really
hard to accept it.</i>

1246
01:07:47,855 --> 01:07:48,765
<i>I don't know why</i>

1247
01:07:48,773 --> 01:07:50,073
<i>because they've got
enough evidence there</i>

1248
01:07:50,066 --> 01:07:51,686
<i>that he's done it.</i>

1249
01:07:51,692 --> 01:07:53,572
<i>I know he has.</i>

1250
01:07:55,279 --> 01:07:58,159
<i>I find it really hard to
accept that he did that.</i>

1251
01:07:58,157 --> 01:08:01,787
<i>soft dramatic music </i>

1252
01:08:01,786 --> 01:08:05,206
<i>[Therese] There aren't many
men who do crimes</i>

1253
01:08:05,206 --> 01:08:09,246
<i>and completely cut
their children off.</i>

1254
01:08:09,543 --> 01:08:11,383
<i>They might not bother
with their wives.</i>

1255
01:08:11,378 --> 01:08:13,088
<i>Not many of them would
completely cut their</i>

1256
01:08:13,089 --> 01:08:15,759
<i>own children off like that.</i>

1257
01:08:16,842 --> 01:08:19,472
<i>Why did he never contact us?</i>

1258
01:08:20,346 --> 01:08:23,216
<i>If you've got that
much money around you,</i>

1259
01:08:23,224 --> 01:08:27,944
<i>surely it's easy to get
some sort of message across.</i>

1260
01:08:28,395 --> 01:08:31,015
<i>What did we do so wrong</i>

1261
01:08:31,023 --> 01:08:34,653
<i>that we weren't enough
for him to stay?</i>

1262
01:08:36,529 --> 01:08:40,619
<i>[Andy] Sean Lupton is a
person of interest.</i>

1263
01:08:40,616 --> 01:08:43,486
<i>We're pretty certain
that he is out there.</i>

1264
01:08:43,494 --> 01:08:46,084
<i>We're still looking for him.</i>

1265
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,420
<i>He handled Stuart Royle's cash.</i>

1266
01:08:48,415 --> 01:08:50,035
<i>The fact that it
was stolen, again,</i>

1267
01:08:50,042 --> 01:08:52,212
<i>by people that you may class</i>

1268
01:08:52,211 --> 01:08:54,961
<i>as Turkish mafia, is irrelevant.</i>

1269
01:08:55,589 --> 01:08:58,759
<i>The crime was committed
by Sean Lupton.</i>

1270
01:08:58,759 --> 01:09:03,259
<i>dramatic music </i>

1271
01:09:03,264 --> 01:09:05,684
<i>[Nicola] They know there's
somebody walking around</i>

1272
01:09:05,683 --> 01:09:11,193
<i>out there in Cyprus that
they show no interest in</i>

1273
01:09:11,188 --> 01:09:13,858
<i>doing the same to what
they did to Lee,</i>

1274
01:09:13,858 --> 01:09:15,278
<i>it's strange to me.</i>

1275
01:09:15,276 --> 01:09:17,146
<i>It's really strange.</i>

1276
01:09:18,404 --> 01:09:20,364
<i>I feel like they
only wanted Lee.</i>

1277
01:09:20,364 --> 01:09:21,704
<i>The guy was Lee.</i>

1278
01:09:21,699 --> 01:09:24,329
<i>They didn't care
about anyone else.</i>

1279
01:09:25,494 --> 01:09:27,294
<i>This investigation
is not closed.</i>

1280
01:09:27,288 --> 01:09:29,788
<i>Eventually, those people
will be tracked down</i>

1281
01:09:29,790 --> 01:09:31,670
<i>and we will convict them.</i>

1282
01:09:33,627 --> 01:09:37,337
<i>[Nicola] Lee did deserve
to go to prison for his role.</i>

1283
01:09:37,339 --> 01:09:39,799
<i>Nobody condones what happened.</i>

1284
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,470
<i>But at the same time,</i>

1285
01:09:42,469 --> 01:09:44,349
<i>I don't condone, like,</i>

1286
01:09:44,346 --> 01:09:48,386
<i>extremely harsh sentences,
you know.</i>

1287
01:09:48,392 --> 01:09:50,602
<i>I do believe in second chances</i>

1288
01:09:50,603 --> 01:09:53,483
<i>and I do believe that
Lee is someone who's</i>

1289
01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:56,230
<i>worthy of a second chance.</i>

1290
01:09:56,233 --> 01:09:58,573
<i>In 2009,</i>

1291
01:09:58,569 --> 01:10:00,109
<i>Lee and Siobhan got divorced</i>

1292
01:10:00,112 --> 01:10:02,322
<i>after he was in prison.</i>

1293
01:10:02,698 --> 01:10:04,908
<i>People were falling away.</i>

1294
01:10:06,327 --> 01:10:07,657
<i>The more we spoke,</i>

1295
01:10:07,661 --> 01:10:09,581
<i>we just naturally fell in love.</i>

1296
01:10:09,580 --> 01:10:11,370
<i>It just, like, evolved.</i>

1297
01:10:11,373 --> 01:10:12,883
<i>It just naturally...</i>

1298
01:10:12,875 --> 01:10:15,245
<i>it just happened.</i>

1299
01:10:15,252 --> 01:10:17,172
<i>I always say,
"Why did you do that?</i>

1300
01:10:17,171 --> 01:10:18,131
<i>It's so stupid.</i>

1301
01:10:18,130 --> 01:10:20,380
<i>It's the stupidest thing."</i>

1302
01:10:20,674 --> 01:10:22,554
<i>And he'll say,
"If I didn't do this,</i>

1303
01:10:22,551 --> 01:10:24,351
<i>me and you wouldn't
be together."</i>

1304
01:10:24,345 --> 01:10:27,055
<i>Like, you know, so</i>

1305
01:10:27,056 --> 01:10:29,306
<i>there's some positives there,</i>

1306
01:10:29,308 --> 01:10:31,978
<i>and you have to take the
positives where you can</i>

1307
01:10:31,977 --> 01:10:34,727
<i>and make the most
of it, I guess.</i>

1308
01:10:35,356 --> 01:10:39,526
<i>I only asked my dad
once about the robbery.</i>

1309
01:10:39,526 --> 01:10:42,356
<i>And he just said it was
just a massive mistake,</i>

1310
01:10:42,363 --> 01:10:46,533
<i>and now he's paying the
massive price for it.</i>

1311
01:10:46,533 --> 01:10:49,453
<i>He did just really
wanna be a UFC fighter,</i>

1312
01:10:49,453 --> 01:10:52,623
<i>and that's what he wanted
people to see him as.</i>

1313
01:10:55,125 --> 01:10:56,415
<i>[Fryklund] He made his own path.</i>

1314
01:10:56,418 --> 01:10:59,798
<i>I mean, I'm sure it feels
amazing too to be able</i>

1315
01:10:59,797 --> 01:11:03,587
<i>to mastermind, you know,
the biggest robbery</i>

1316
01:11:03,592 --> 01:11:07,052
<i>in world history and
be that type of-</i>

1317
01:11:07,054 --> 01:11:08,394
<i>be that type of figure,</i>

1318
01:11:08,389 --> 01:11:10,349
<i>and, I mean, God, it's
like everyone wants</i>

1319
01:11:10,349 --> 01:11:12,309
<i>their own theme music
walking around, you know?</i>

1320
01:11:12,309 --> 01:11:14,189
<i>When they go to CVS
and shit like that.</i>

1321
01:11:14,186 --> 01:11:15,146
<i>You know what I mean?</i>

1322
01:11:15,145 --> 01:11:16,515
<i>But you really
got to listen hard.</i>

1323
01:11:16,522 --> 01:11:18,232
<i>It's really not playing.</i>

1324
01:11:18,232 --> 01:11:19,152
<i>Do you know what I mean?</i>

1325
01:11:19,149 --> 01:11:23,069
<i>But if you believe
it's playing, I mean,</i>

1326
01:11:23,070 --> 01:11:24,360
<i>you can get caught
up in that game.</i>

1327
01:11:24,363 --> 01:11:26,743
<i>And as long as you keep
the music up loud enough,</i>

1328
01:11:26,740 --> 01:11:28,450
<i>the rest of the world
doesn't play that game.</i>

1329
01:11:28,450 --> 01:11:31,450
<i>And there's a reason
for it, you know.</i>

1330
01:11:31,453 --> 01:11:34,833
<i>It doesn't fuckin'
last long. [chuckles]</i>

1331
01:11:35,624 --> 01:11:37,464
<i>[Anca] Was it worth it,
you done this?</i>

1332
01:11:37,459 --> 01:11:41,089
<i>I mean, that moment is, uh,</i>

1333
01:11:41,088 --> 01:11:43,668
<i>it will be with me forever.</i>

1334
01:11:43,924 --> 01:11:47,054
<i>[Tony] I don't think you're
ever gonna get away</i>

1335
01:11:47,052 --> 01:11:49,312
<i>from it completely.</i>

1336
01:11:50,222 --> 01:11:51,222
<i>It's part of my life.</i>

1337
01:11:51,223 --> 01:11:54,643
<i>I can't not acknowledge it.</i>

1338
01:11:54,643 --> 01:11:58,273
<i>But I just try to forget it</i>

1339
01:11:58,272 --> 01:12:00,822
<i>and move on with the
more important things.</i>

1340
01:12:02,526 --> 01:12:04,316
<i>[Alun] The potential
there was for people</i>

1341
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,320
<i>to be traumatized long term.</i>

1342
01:12:08,282 --> 01:12:09,162
<i>For what?</i>

1343
01:12:09,158 --> 01:12:11,408
<i>You know, for money.</i>

1344
01:12:11,785 --> 01:12:13,445
<i>If you've got that
kind of talent,</i>

1345
01:12:13,454 --> 01:12:16,544
<i>you should have used that,
you know, properly,</i>

1346
01:12:16,540 --> 01:12:18,290
<i>used it the right way.</i>

1347
01:12:18,292 --> 01:12:21,462
<i>dramatic music </i>

1348
01:12:21,462 --> 01:12:23,762
<i>[Dave E.] Lee Murray was
prosecuted outside</i>

1349
01:12:23,756 --> 01:12:26,426
<i>the jurisdiction of
England and Wales.</i>

1350
01:12:26,759 --> 01:12:31,469
<i>We did a good job in very
difficult circumstances.</i>

1351
01:12:31,472 --> 01:12:35,352
<i>We were able to get
the main offenders.</i>

1352
01:12:35,351 --> 01:12:37,601
<i>Ultimately, it's not my decision</i>

1353
01:12:37,603 --> 01:12:40,903
<i>whether it's the right thing
or the wrong thing.</i>

1354
01:12:41,482 --> 01:12:42,612
<i>My job is to make sure</i>

1355
01:12:42,608 --> 01:12:45,358
<i>that people do face the
criminal justice system.</i>

1356
01:12:45,361 --> 01:12:47,701
<i>dramatic music </i>

1357
01:12:47,696 --> 01:12:50,486
<i>[Andy] Pardon the phrase, but
you can piss off an individual.</i>

1358
01:12:50,491 --> 01:12:52,081
<i>You can piss off a company.</i>

1359
01:12:52,076 --> 01:12:53,366
<i>You can piss off
an organization.</i>

1360
01:12:53,369 --> 01:12:55,909
<i>But do not piss
off a government.</i>

1361
01:12:55,913 --> 01:12:58,873
<i>They will give you all the
resources they have to hand</i>

1362
01:12:58,874 --> 01:13:01,594
<i>to assist you to get
their money back.</i>

1363
01:13:01,585 --> 01:13:02,625
<i>That was one thing</i>

1364
01:13:02,628 --> 01:13:06,548
<i>that hopefully these
robbers have learned.</i>

1365
01:13:06,548 --> 01:13:08,378
<i>But I've certainly learned it.</i>

1366
01:13:08,384 --> 01:13:10,934
<i>dramatic music </i>

1367
01:13:10,928 --> 01:13:13,178
<i>[Reda] He should have been
prosecuted somewhere.</i>

1368
01:13:13,180 --> 01:13:17,230
<i>However, nobody has died.</i>

1369
01:13:17,226 --> 01:13:19,346
<i>Nobody was maimed.</i>

1370
01:13:19,353 --> 01:13:23,573
<i>Morocco should have given him</i>

1371
01:13:23,565 --> 01:13:26,605
<i>about the same sentences,</i>

1372
01:13:26,610 --> 01:13:29,910
<i>or a little bit more, than he
would have gotten in the UK.</i>

1373
01:13:29,905 --> 01:13:34,325
<i>People still think that
Lee's some sort of connected</i>

1374
01:13:34,326 --> 01:13:35,446
<i>with the money still.</i>

1375
01:13:35,452 --> 01:13:36,752
<i>He's living like a king.</i>

1376
01:13:36,745 --> 01:13:38,495
<i>He can't be in a
Third World country</i>

1377
01:13:38,497 --> 01:13:43,167
<i>and have that sort of money
and not have freedom.</i>

1378
01:13:43,168 --> 01:13:44,168
<i>For his whole sentence,</i>

1379
01:13:44,169 --> 01:13:45,799
<i>he's just been in
solitary confinement.</i>

1380
01:13:45,796 --> 01:13:49,216
<i>To do 25 years full
stretch in Morocco</i>

1381
01:13:49,216 --> 01:13:54,426
<i>is something you
would never wish</i>

1382
01:13:54,430 --> 01:13:57,100
<i>for your worst nightmare, mate.</i>

1383
01:13:57,099 --> 01:14:01,269
<i>soft dramatic music </i>

1384
01:14:10,529 --> 01:14:13,279
<i>[Terry] Know the man,
know the beast he was.</i>

1385
01:14:13,282 --> 01:14:13,912
<i>Yeah.</i>

1386
01:14:13,907 --> 01:14:16,237
<i>And if you really knew him,</i>

1387
01:14:16,243 --> 01:14:17,453
<i>if you really truly knew him,</i>

1388
01:14:17,453 --> 01:14:19,253
<i>there's a lot of people that
did know him would agree</i>

1389
01:14:19,246 --> 01:14:20,116
<i>with what I said:</i>

1390
01:14:20,122 --> 01:14:23,292
<i>he was a gentleman,
a fuckin' gentleman.</i>

1391
01:14:59,161 --> 01:15:00,911
<i>I think- I think we--</i>

1392
01:15:00,913 --> 01:15:05,383
<i>the only interactions
we had was via letters.</i>

1393
01:15:05,375 --> 01:15:06,285
<i>And that was it.</i>

1394
01:15:06,293 --> 01:15:08,633
<i>And it was, "I'm hoping
that the King of Morocco,</i>

1395
01:15:08,629 --> 01:15:10,669
<i>because I'm half
Moroccan, you know,</i>

1396
01:15:10,672 --> 01:15:16,222
<i>will-will be lenient upon me
and get me out earlier."</i>

1397
01:15:16,595 --> 01:15:18,755
<i>I think a lot of people
wrote letters to the King</i>

1398
01:15:18,764 --> 01:15:22,024
<i>and things like that,
but to no avail.</i>

1399
01:15:22,893 --> 01:15:24,693
<i>No early release program.</i>

1400
01:15:24,686 --> 01:15:27,686
<i>You just, if the King
pardons you then, yeah,</i>

1401
01:15:27,689 --> 01:15:30,319
<i>and thinks you're worthy
of a second chance,</i>

1402
01:15:30,317 --> 01:15:33,737
<i>then sometimes that's
extended to you.</i>

1403
01:15:33,737 --> 01:15:35,107
<i>I will 100% wait.</i>

1404
01:15:35,113 --> 01:15:38,873
<i>There is no shadow of a
doubt that I will wait</i>

1405
01:15:38,867 --> 01:15:41,537
<i>every year of the next 12 years.</i>

1406
01:15:41,537 --> 01:15:43,367
<i>If I have to, I will.</i>

1407
01:17:55,629 --> 01:18:00,629
<i>soft dramatic music </i>

1408
01:19:12,873 --> 01:19:17,843
<i>dramatic music </i>