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Downloaded from
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Hi, how are you?
How did you guys get here?
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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- We took an Uber.
- Uber, honey.
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And he was really kind.
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Yeah, he thought we were funny,
because we are.
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- How you feeling?
- I feel good.
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I'm excited to see my second showing
of this to see how it's different.
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I know. Sorry I couldn't make
the other one.
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You're in school, that's okay.
So you're free?
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Yeah, I'm free.
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Yeah, the ponytail feels like
a last show kind of moment.
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- You've been ponytailing, okay?
- You have, I know.
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- Your braid on Kimmel this morning?
- Did you see that?
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- It was so cute.
- Yeah?
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- Yeah.
- Thanks! I'm glad you guys approve.
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We do.
We approve.
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- I miss you guys.
I know. We missed you!
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But we have a full two weeks
of actual time together.
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See, I'm not gonna ask for more.
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- I was gonna say--
- We were saying that.
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Only because you
called us both separately.
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And we were like, "Why is she calling?
Like, we don't have too many dinners
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to run out of things to say."
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Three-and-a-half hours in the car.
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Wow!
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I could've flown from here to Chicago.
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It's true. You could
go back to Chicago sometime soon.
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Could have gone back to Chicago, unbelievable.
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- So we will--
- Hi, there.
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- Hello, welcome.
- This is Rita.
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- She will be our stage manager...
- Hey, Rita.
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- ...getting us everywhere.
- Stage manager. Hey.
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- It's the last show, you guys.
I know.
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She's good. Want these on here?
All right.
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Well done.
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Are you ready to see Michelle Obama?
Make some noise!
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- Come on! Here we go!
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Last night!
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- Last night. We're gon' make it right.
- In LA.
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- It's gon' be real bright.
- On the last night.
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Two, three!
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I am becoming!
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Four years ago when I released
my memoir Becoming,
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I traveled across the country
and around the world,
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meeting so many incredible people,
including some of you.
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The tour was one of
the best experiences of my life.
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But then, almost in an instant,
everything changed.
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The world locked down
and closed in.
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We were torn apart from one another.
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{\an8}At the same time, we were dealing
with other deeply personal challenges.
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{\an8}A long past due reckoning
with race in America.
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All of this has left us shaken
and angry,
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despondent and unseen,
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and perhaps
more than anything else, alone.
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How did we get here?
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How have we changed?
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And most importantly,
how can we regain some stability?
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These are the questions
I've been pondering
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in my new book and podcast.
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And I'm sure a lot of you have too.
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And that's why we're here tonight,
together again.
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Because even when the world
feels so dark,
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we're all trying to protect, kindle,
and share the light we carry.
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Believe me, I don't have
all the answers.
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Far from it.
But I do have my story.
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And you do too.
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And to help us begin
to weave those stories together,
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I'm thrilled to have my dear friend here
to illuminate a path forward.
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{\an8}Please give a warm welcome
to the one and only
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{\an8}-Oprah Winfrey!
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Hello, LA!
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Hello!
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Hello, LA!
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Hello, LA up there!
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Hello, LA out there!
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So good to see you, LA!
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Wow!
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Oh, my goodness.
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So, how fantastic that you're out here
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on a Tuesday night?
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For the last night
of The Light We Carry tour!
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Look at you!
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Okay. So I know all of you who have been,
at some point in your life,
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to an event where the host
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is standing there before you and says,
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"We have our guest this evening
who needs no introduction,"
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and then they spend
the next 20 minutes...
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telling you everything that person did
since they was born.
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I'm not gon' do that.
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I'm not gon' do that.
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'Cause I know you already know
who's here.
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I know 'cause you went through the 101
and the 405 and the 5...
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and the 10...
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I came down on the 101,
took three-and-a-half hours.
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I'm here for the same reason you are.
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To get some of that light
she's carrying!
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So the woman who needs
no introduction, for real.
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Our forever First Lady,
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Michelle Obama!
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Michelle Obama!
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Oprah Winfrey!
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- Look at this.
- Look at LA!
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YouTube Theater!
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Final night!
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Wow!
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Oh, my goodness!
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LA!
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- Woo!
- Woo!
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Now, this is a way to end a tour.
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- This is--
- I think this is it.
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Wow.
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I have to say, it's a Tuesday night...
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- It's Tuesday night!
- It's not even...
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It's not even the middle of the week
and the people came
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- to see you.
- Oh, my goodness.
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Well...
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I think it was a pretty big added bonus
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that we got Miss Oprah Winfrey here, too.
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I have to just say this,
every other moderator
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was so glad that they weren't
following you.
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- So...
- Well...
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It's so interesting, because...
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I've been watching you on Instagram
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and people have been sending me,
"Oh, my gosh,
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you should see what Conan did,
what Tracee Ellis Ross did,
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what Gayle did."
"Did you see Tyler? Did you see Ellen?"
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And so I was feeling kind of like,
"Oh, my God..."
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Was your fearful mind kicking in?
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- My fearful mind!
- See? Even Oprah Winfrey has
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- a fearful mind.
- A fearful mind!
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- You know?
- Actually--
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You know what happened?
I thought,
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"Okay, I'm going to go back
to the toolbox..."
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Exactly. You know how to do this.
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-"I know how to do an interview."
- I know how to do an interview!
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- I'm not scurred of the people.
Right!
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- So here we are.
- Yes. Thank you for being here,
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- my dear, dear friend.
- Thank you. I love you so much.
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- I love you too.
- I appreciate you so much.
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- Same. Back at you.
- What you stand for.
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So this is a final night, you all,
of a six-city tour
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that evolved from a lockdown.
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- Oh, yeah.
- So, you came out on the other side
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and brought us The Light We Carry.
Championing of The Light We Carry.
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But before you got to the other side,
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I want to know where were you
and what was going on
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when you first realized
this here is serious,
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- and we not going nowhere?
- Yeah, yeah.
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You know, interestingly enough,
I was on the road.
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The tour had just finished, we took
some time off, and I was on the road
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doing a couple of speaking engagements.
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And I was in Las Vegas because
I also coupled those engagements
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with a celebration with my team
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to thank them for the hard work
they had done on the tour.
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- So this is March 2020.
- This is March.
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And there was still buzz about COVID
in the air, but,
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you know, it's sort of back and forth,
"What is this?" So we're in Las Vegas,
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and that's when there was a slow wave
of cancellations.
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You remember that ripple effect?
Because people didn't know what to do.
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- Correct.
- Companies were making
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split decisions
and so we're stuck in Vegas
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watching the world slowly turn off.
That's what it felt like.
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You know? Events started being canceled.
And we're in Vegas.
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Slowly, the casinos started to empty out.
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The streets in Las Vegas started to empty.
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It felt like we were in a ghost town.
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- Did you think you needed to get home?
- Oh, yeah, yeah.
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We were trying to be responsible
and wait until the last event canceled.
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- Right.
- And then finally, they canceled it,
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we got back on the plane, got home.
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So that felt eerie,
being out there on the road
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when slowly, the world was shutting off.
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- Well, we really weren't sure.
- We weren't sure about anything.
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- Everybody was just using hand sanitizer.
- That's right.
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- Washing off their groceries.
- Yeah.
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- Washing off the groceries, yes.
- With soap. Yeah.
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It was that phase, yes.
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And then, I was worried about the girls
because they were in--
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still at school, and I'm thinking,
"My babies are out there with the COVID!"
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And I was hoping that the universities
were gonna be responsible.
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And then finally, the decision was made
that they were coming home,
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but then I was thinking, "Oh, my God,
they're coming to my house?"
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I was thinking, "They're going through
airports and sitting on airplanes,"
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so Barack and I cautioned them
to wear masks.
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And, when they got home,
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I made them stay in the garage
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and open all their stuff up.
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I was going to make them stay out there.
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I told them to take off
their travel clothes.
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We didn't know what was going on.
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My husband thought I was being
a little irrational,
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but I was like, "We're trying to--"
I-- We didn't know!
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That's not irrational, honey.
Stedman was in the guesthouse for 14 days.
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I remember that!
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That was during the 14-day period.
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See now, Malia and Sasha,
at least I let you come in the house.
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But we were preparing to create
a COVID-safe community,
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and since they had traveled,
we were kind of holding our breath
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making sure they didn't bring
any virus home.
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So we didn't know how long to wait,
what was the incubation period.
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Were you actually afraid of getting COVID
that first year before the vaccines
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- were available?
- It's interesting.
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I think it helped that we lived
with a former president...
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- That might be helpful.
- ...who...
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Not just any president, but a president
who reads and believes in science.
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Who had...
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steered the country through
several pandemics.
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Remember Ebola?
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I think one case reported in the U.S.
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That was my husband.
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Brought us back from the brink
of depression,
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everybody forgets that, how--
what bad shape we were in.
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So we were living with
what we call the fact guy.
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He knew enough to know what this was.
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So it was scary, but we had information.
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- What was scary--
- So you were comfortably afraid.
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We were comfortably afraid.
What was scary--
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As you talk about in the book,
being comfortably afraid.
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- I was downright scurred.
- Yeah, but what scared me, Oprah,
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was watching the confusion...
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- Yes.
- ...in the world.
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The mixed messages,
the inconsistency,
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the lack of leadership,
the lack of a plan,
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you know, watching people
not take this seriously.
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People treating the pandemic
like it was an extended vacation.
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People arguing about wearing masks,
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watching kids partying
on the beach in Florida.
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- Remember? Yes.
- That was scary
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because I'm thinking all those kids
are gonna go home
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to a grandparent or somebody
with an autoimmune disease,
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and it is going to be catastrophic.
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That was the thing that scared me.
Watching disinformation.
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That's scary.
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Watching people attack
scientists and the experts.
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That was the frightening part
of it for me.
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Watching the world not deal
with this well.
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Listen, I ate my way
through the pandemic.
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- And we would have Taco Tuesday--
- We had Taco Tuesday!
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- We loved Taco Tuesday.
- We loved Taco Tuesday,
241
00:13:52,414 --> 00:13:55,960
- but Tuesday kept coming around so fast.
- Right, you know?
242
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,963
-"It's Tuesday again?"
- Does that happen at your house
243
00:13:58,963 --> 00:14:01,632
- where, "It's Tuesday again?"
- Again?
244
00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:06,845
Oh, my gosh. I was like what we now need
to do Taco Tuesday every other Tuesday,
245
00:14:06,845 --> 00:14:10,933
because it's happening so fast, and days
would pass where I would be like,
246
00:14:10,933 --> 00:14:15,521
"Did I do anything?
Did I accomplish anything?"
247
00:14:15,521 --> 00:14:19,984
And then you come out on the other side,
you have written a book.
248
00:14:21,235 --> 00:14:22,486
You have written a book.
249
00:14:22,486 --> 00:14:25,865
So you weren't that way at first, right?
250
00:14:25,865 --> 00:14:31,704
You didn't just say, "I am now
going to take all of the personal problems
251
00:14:31,704 --> 00:14:34,790
that I have had, Barack,
252
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:37,042
and I'm going to take that energy
253
00:14:37,668 --> 00:14:42,172
and I'm going to allow it to be a beacon
for the lights
254
00:14:42,882 --> 00:14:44,800
that we all carry."
255
00:14:47,136 --> 00:14:49,972
- It didn't happen like that.
- It didn't happen like that. Yes.
256
00:14:51,056 --> 00:14:54,810
Well, the book came out of,
like you-- people ask
257
00:14:54,810 --> 00:14:57,104
for advice all the time. You know?
258
00:14:57,104 --> 00:15:00,149
They're always asking me
how have I done this?
259
00:15:00,149 --> 00:15:02,818
"How'd you get here?"
"How do you overcome your fear?"
260
00:15:02,818 --> 00:15:05,696
"How do you find your voice?"
"How do you feel seen when,
261
00:15:05,696 --> 00:15:10,075
you know, you've been raised
to not see yourself in the world?"
262
00:15:10,075 --> 00:15:13,579
And so, I'd already been grappling
with these questions, thinking,
263
00:15:13,579 --> 00:15:16,999
"Well, when I get an opportunity
to talk to kids,"
264
00:15:16,999 --> 00:15:20,461
which I do occasionally, I still spend
a lot of time talking to kids,
265
00:15:20,461 --> 00:15:22,171
I try to answer those questions,
266
00:15:22,171 --> 00:15:24,757
but I can only connect with so many kids,
I'm thinking,
267
00:15:24,757 --> 00:15:27,927
"They're looking for guidance,
they're looking for a voice."
268
00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:33,223
So, I started shaping the book
even before the pandemic,
269
00:15:33,223 --> 00:15:38,938
but I also found that I was spiraling down
in a depression,
270
00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:41,231
you know, with the loop in my head,
271
00:15:41,231 --> 00:15:44,443
my fearful mind watching
the world unravel,
272
00:15:44,443 --> 00:15:47,279
and I needed to find my own hope.
273
00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:50,366
I felt like I was losing a little bit
of my own light.
274
00:15:50,366 --> 00:15:53,619
And I had to kind of search
my own toolbox
275
00:15:53,619 --> 00:15:57,539
for ways to come out of that so that
I could answer those questions
276
00:15:57,539 --> 00:15:59,249
and continue to be of service,
277
00:15:59,249 --> 00:16:02,670
because when you get
to those low emotional places,
278
00:16:02,670 --> 00:16:04,546
it's hard to find your light.
279
00:16:04,546 --> 00:16:07,257
It's hard to think
that sharing it will even matter.
280
00:16:07,257 --> 00:16:10,844
Were you looking at the world the way
we were all looking at the world?
281
00:16:10,844 --> 00:16:15,015
From that fearful space?
Because so much was happening
282
00:16:15,015 --> 00:16:19,770
- and we had seen so many lies...
- Yeah.
283
00:16:19,770 --> 00:16:22,106
- ...that had been denied...
- Yeah.
284
00:16:22,106 --> 00:16:25,901
...by people who we thought
should have been reasonable,
285
00:16:25,901 --> 00:16:28,028
that I think a lot of us started to think,
286
00:16:28,028 --> 00:16:31,073
"Well, it doesn't matter.
You know, Charlottesville,
287
00:16:31,073 --> 00:16:34,952
very fine people on both sides."
That nothing is going to change.
288
00:16:34,952 --> 00:16:39,164
- Then we saw fear being weaponized.
- Yeah.
289
00:16:39,164 --> 00:16:42,584
And when you saw fear
being weaponized
290
00:16:42,584 --> 00:16:47,715
- by former president, not your husband...
- Yes.
291
00:16:48,882 --> 00:16:52,636
...did that make you fearful
or did that make you angry?
292
00:16:52,636 --> 00:16:53,804
Both.
293
00:16:53,804 --> 00:16:58,517
It made me afraid. It made me angry.
It was disappointing.
294
00:16:58,517 --> 00:17:03,355
It was disappointing that, you know,
after we tried so hard
295
00:17:03,355 --> 00:17:08,861
to set such a high bar, where we tried
so hard to get everything right,
296
00:17:08,861 --> 00:17:14,491
to lead with hope, to promote kindness
and compassion and empathy,
297
00:17:14,491 --> 00:17:16,076
that...
298
00:17:16,076 --> 00:17:20,122
- the world chose either affirmatively--
299
00:17:20,122 --> 00:17:24,209
they chose it or they were complacent
and didn't vote.
300
00:17:25,169 --> 00:17:28,714
Which hurt probably even more,
because the people who didn't vote,
301
00:17:28,714 --> 00:17:31,925
a lot of those people were the people
who voted for us.
302
00:17:31,925 --> 00:17:36,013
So, in a way, I felt a little abandoned,
you know?
303
00:17:36,013 --> 00:17:39,892
It's like, "Did it really matter,
what we did? Does it?"
304
00:17:39,892 --> 00:17:44,146
You know? And that's the dark part
of those times.
305
00:17:45,272 --> 00:17:47,566
But-- no, I-- and--
306
00:17:47,566 --> 00:17:49,526
That was at that time, you know?
307
00:17:49,526 --> 00:17:53,489
And we-- And I share it because
we all go through those moments, you know?
308
00:17:53,489 --> 00:17:57,117
It's like, we all can't be
the beacons of hope all the time.
309
00:17:57,117 --> 00:18:00,704
And I'm more of a cynic
than my husband
310
00:18:00,704 --> 00:18:04,625
who just has a light
that is always hopeful.
311
00:18:04,625 --> 00:18:08,128
And I am so lucky to live
in the house with him
312
00:18:08,128 --> 00:18:12,257
because he keeps me focused
on the truth.
313
00:18:12,257 --> 00:18:16,845
But yes, the weaponization of fear
is a dangerous, dangerous thing.
314
00:18:16,845 --> 00:18:20,474
You know, you look over any atrocity
that has happened
315
00:18:20,474 --> 00:18:22,643
in the course of human history,
316
00:18:22,643 --> 00:18:25,270
slavery, The Holocaust, any war,
317
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:28,982
any misogyny, any hate crime,
or homophobia,
318
00:18:28,982 --> 00:18:34,446
it's all based in fear, greed,
and a quest for power.
319
00:18:34,446 --> 00:18:37,825
And so, it is a dangerous thing.
320
00:18:37,825 --> 00:18:41,411
It is a dangerous thing to watch
321
00:18:41,411 --> 00:18:44,456
how life is influenced by that fear.
322
00:18:44,456 --> 00:18:48,043
It determines who gets an education,
323
00:18:48,043 --> 00:18:50,379
who gets justice, you know?
324
00:18:50,379 --> 00:18:53,549
Oftentimes, it's the difference between
a slap on the hand
325
00:18:53,549 --> 00:18:55,509
and a knee on the neck.
326
00:18:56,135 --> 00:18:59,304
So it's got to be something
that we are mindful of
327
00:18:59,304 --> 00:19:02,099
and that we learn how to decode it
for ourselves
328
00:19:02,099 --> 00:19:07,938
so that leaders cannot use our fear
against us to turn on one another.
329
00:19:09,189 --> 00:19:12,234
It's a dangerous proposition.
330
00:19:12,234 --> 00:19:17,072
And it's also, as you know, Oprah,
as someone who has a huge platform,
331
00:19:17,072 --> 00:19:18,824
has had it for a long time,
332
00:19:18,824 --> 00:19:22,911
you know how easy it would be
if you chose
333
00:19:22,911 --> 00:19:25,622
to use your platform in a negative light.
334
00:19:25,622 --> 00:19:26,999
But why don't you?
335
00:19:26,999 --> 00:19:29,918
Why? After all those years,
you had a TV show,
336
00:19:29,918 --> 00:19:33,297
you could have gotten people whipped up
about a whole lot of stuff,
337
00:19:33,297 --> 00:19:37,634
but you chose not to.
Why was that, pray tell?
338
00:19:42,431 --> 00:19:45,934
Yes, and when you see
other people using it
339
00:19:45,934 --> 00:19:49,104
for such a disadvantage,
340
00:19:50,856 --> 00:19:55,903
it's depressing, I think a lot of people
were depressed and also numbed by it.
341
00:19:55,903 --> 00:20:00,699
And you say that by the time you ordered
those knitting needles online,
342
00:20:00,699 --> 00:20:04,661
- that you had reached a really low place.
- Yeah, yeah.
343
00:20:04,661 --> 00:20:08,540
And so, I mean, I don't know how
knitting's gon' bring you out of that,
344
00:20:08,540 --> 00:20:09,958
- but okay.
- I know, I know.
345
00:20:09,958 --> 00:20:12,169
Well, knitting is a metaphor.
346
00:20:12,586 --> 00:20:14,254
But I did learn how to knit.
347
00:20:14,254 --> 00:20:16,048
Didn't I knit you something?
348
00:20:16,048 --> 00:20:19,426
- Oh, I knit-- That was Gayle.
- No, you did-- That was Gayle.
349
00:20:19,426 --> 00:20:20,636
Gayle's grandson.
350
00:20:20,636 --> 00:20:23,889
- You knitted a lovely, beautiful...
- Yeah, well... You know, I--
351
00:20:24,139 --> 00:20:25,390
I made that sweater!
352
00:20:25,390 --> 00:20:27,226
- I made that sweater!
- Sweater.
353
00:20:27,226 --> 00:20:30,479
- You made that sweater!
- There's that cute little baby.
354
00:20:30,479 --> 00:20:31,521
Yes. Luca.
355
00:20:32,231 --> 00:20:35,359
What I got from knitting,
356
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,528
it was more meditative,
357
00:20:38,528 --> 00:20:42,616
it served to quiet my mind
358
00:20:42,616 --> 00:20:45,369
in a way that I needed,
you know, in that way.
359
00:20:45,369 --> 00:20:47,913
That's kind of what faith does for you.
360
00:20:47,913 --> 00:20:50,290
You know? It shuts your brain off.
361
00:20:50,290 --> 00:20:53,126
See, we try to think our way
out of so much.
362
00:20:53,126 --> 00:20:56,213
And our mind, we don't have
much control over it.
363
00:20:56,213 --> 00:20:58,507
That's why you give it up, you know?
364
00:20:58,507 --> 00:21:01,760
You got to give it up
to something bigger than you.
365
00:21:02,427 --> 00:21:06,056
But what I learned through that,
what I was able to unravel,
366
00:21:06,056 --> 00:21:10,978
was like, when we're in these times
where the problem seems so big
367
00:21:10,978 --> 00:21:12,271
and insurmountable,
368
00:21:12,271 --> 00:21:15,816
we really have to focus
on what we can control.
369
00:21:15,816 --> 00:21:20,153
You know? That's really all we can do,
is tend to the knitting in our lap.
370
00:21:20,153 --> 00:21:21,989
And guess what? That's enough.
371
00:21:21,989 --> 00:21:25,450
I mean, we live in a world
where bigger always is better,
372
00:21:25,450 --> 00:21:27,286
where we're always being busy.
373
00:21:27,286 --> 00:21:30,080
We're trying to tackle everything
in a big way.
374
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,999
Our kids are subjected to that.
375
00:21:31,999 --> 00:21:35,502
When I get letters from young people,
they're trying to, at 15,
376
00:21:35,502 --> 00:21:38,588
"I gotta save the world.
I'm gonna fix my neighborhood."
377
00:21:38,588 --> 00:21:43,093
And my whole thing is you don't have
the power or the leverage to do that yet.
378
00:21:43,093 --> 00:21:45,178
You need to focus on your knitting,
379
00:21:45,178 --> 00:21:48,432
and if you're 12 or 15,
your knitting is your homework,
380
00:21:48,432 --> 00:21:49,850
it's finishing school.
381
00:21:49,850 --> 00:21:53,645
And the reason-- the lesson
that came out of that for me is that,
382
00:21:53,645 --> 00:21:56,940
start with the thing that is small
that you can control.
383
00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:59,151
- That's right.
- Control what you can.
384
00:21:59,151 --> 00:22:00,444
That's right.
385
00:22:00,444 --> 00:22:02,070
You know, the one theme
386
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:06,199
that lifts from the pages
of The Light We Carry for me
387
00:22:06,199 --> 00:22:10,078
is that you were raised well.
388
00:22:10,078 --> 00:22:13,206
- I was lucky.
- You were raised well.
389
00:22:13,206 --> 00:22:16,460
- I was blessed.
- My goodness, did you have incredible,
390
00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:21,381
- stellar, powerful parents.
- Yeah. Yes.
391
00:22:21,381 --> 00:22:25,594
Yes. Who cared about you
and had an open mind.
392
00:22:25,594 --> 00:22:28,388
And I think
what's really wonderful is that
393
00:22:28,388 --> 00:22:33,310
you give-- devote a whole section,
chapter to "Meet my mom,"
394
00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:36,438
and, and some of her great gems
for raising children,
395
00:22:36,438 --> 00:22:39,858
one of my favorite, which is,
"Parent the child you've got."
396
00:22:39,858 --> 00:22:41,526
- Yes, indeed.
- That's great.
397
00:22:41,526 --> 00:22:44,154
But what I was left with,
this feeling that,
398
00:22:44,154 --> 00:22:47,115
wow, I wish we all
could have met your father.
399
00:22:47,115 --> 00:22:48,283
Yeah.
400
00:22:48,283 --> 00:22:50,243
I wish we all could have met him
401
00:22:50,243 --> 00:22:54,456
because I think the message
that he gave you as a young girl,
402
00:22:54,456 --> 00:22:59,711
"Nobody can make you feel bad
about yourself
403
00:22:59,711 --> 00:23:02,798
- if you feel good about yourself..."
- That's right.
404
00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:05,759
- ...is the underlying theme of this book.
- Yeah.
405
00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:07,052
- Yeah.
- Yes.
406
00:23:07,052 --> 00:23:08,845
At the very end of the day,
407
00:23:08,845 --> 00:23:12,557
we cannot control what other people
think, say, or do.
408
00:23:12,557 --> 00:23:14,184
We just can't do it.
409
00:23:14,184 --> 00:23:18,271
Our light can't be dependent
on somebody else, right?
410
00:23:18,271 --> 00:23:21,316
Because they may not have it to give.
411
00:23:21,316 --> 00:23:25,529
My father was just a living life lesson
for me, you know,
412
00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:28,782
because he was a Black man, working class,
413
00:23:28,782 --> 00:23:32,285
probably poor, although we didn't feel
like we were poor,
414
00:23:32,285 --> 00:23:34,579
you know, who had MS
415
00:23:34,579 --> 00:23:39,334
and struggled throughout his life
with the disability.
416
00:23:39,334 --> 00:23:43,213
And we watched his body deteriorate,
417
00:23:43,213 --> 00:23:48,176
and I opened with the story of his cane
because that was an important tool.
418
00:23:48,176 --> 00:23:50,929
You know? Instead of giving up on life,
419
00:23:50,929 --> 00:23:55,308
he could have, you know, chucked it all
and started collecting disability
420
00:23:55,308 --> 00:23:57,435
and never worked a day in his life.
421
00:23:57,435 --> 00:24:00,772
But instead he chose to use
whatever tool he needed.
422
00:24:00,772 --> 00:24:03,900
First, it was a cane,
and when that stopped working,
423
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:06,444
he switched those out for two crutches.
424
00:24:06,444 --> 00:24:09,531
And then when that stopped working
later on in life,
425
00:24:09,531 --> 00:24:11,158
he needed more assistance.
426
00:24:11,158 --> 00:24:13,368
He replaced that with a walker.
427
00:24:13,368 --> 00:24:15,787
Eventually, he needed a motorized cart.
428
00:24:15,787 --> 00:24:19,457
All throughout our life.
But he never stopped.
429
00:24:19,457 --> 00:24:22,335
He never blamed anyone,
430
00:24:22,335 --> 00:24:26,673
he never let his-- the disappointment
that must-- he must have felt,
431
00:24:26,673 --> 00:24:28,216
it never burned him up.
432
00:24:28,216 --> 00:24:30,886
It didn't turn him negative, you know?
433
00:24:30,886 --> 00:24:33,096
He would have falls,
434
00:24:33,096 --> 00:24:36,057
I don't know whether he fell
when he was on his way to work,
435
00:24:36,057 --> 00:24:39,227
but he would fall at home,
catch his foot on the rug.
436
00:24:39,227 --> 00:24:43,398
And to see your father fall to the ground,
437
00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:47,152
it exposed all of our vulnerabilities.
438
00:24:47,152 --> 00:24:48,612
It was frightening,
439
00:24:48,612 --> 00:24:52,199
but my dad did his best to get up quick
and laugh it off
440
00:24:52,199 --> 00:24:54,993
because laughter was a tool as well.
441
00:24:54,993 --> 00:24:58,747
But what I learned from him,
as I say in the book,
442
00:24:58,747 --> 00:25:02,125
"You fall, you get up, you keep moving."
443
00:25:02,709 --> 00:25:07,756
So if he could find a light
in all that he was going through,
444
00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:10,258
and he could be a light for others,
445
00:25:10,258 --> 00:25:13,803
because he was like the father of many
who didn't have them,
446
00:25:13,803 --> 00:25:16,139
in my family, in my community.
447
00:25:16,139 --> 00:25:21,645
He saw his own light,
and he taught me that that's my job,
448
00:25:21,645 --> 00:25:23,855
to see my own light, you know?
449
00:25:23,855 --> 00:25:27,567
Yeah. That's why I love that
as the reigning theme of the book,
450
00:25:27,567 --> 00:25:31,404
"Nobody can make you feel bad
about yourself if you feel good."
451
00:25:31,404 --> 00:25:34,032
And what you're saying
in The Light We Carry
452
00:25:34,032 --> 00:25:39,579
is that it's your job to do the work
to make yourself feel good.
453
00:25:39,579 --> 00:25:42,540
- That's your responsibility.
- That's right.
454
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:45,126
- That always made me feel better.
455
00:25:45,126 --> 00:25:49,839
It was like my father was showing me
that I had control over my life.
456
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:52,801
- Yes.
- I had control over my feelings.
457
00:25:52,801 --> 00:25:56,846
I didn't have to count on somebody
being nice to me,
458
00:25:56,846 --> 00:25:58,682
somebody being fair to me.
459
00:25:58,682 --> 00:26:00,433
We knew life was unfair.
460
00:26:00,433 --> 00:26:05,689
So when I think of my father,
I, you know, anytime I feel self-pity,
461
00:26:05,689 --> 00:26:11,278
I feel sorry for myself, you know,
I feel like it's somebody else's fault,
462
00:26:11,278 --> 00:26:16,324
I think about my father,
and that keeps me focused, and straight,
463
00:26:16,324 --> 00:26:19,452
and clear-headed, and grateful,
464
00:26:19,452 --> 00:26:23,873
in ways that I just,
it-- it's a gift.
465
00:26:23,873 --> 00:26:28,586
Can you finish this sentence?
"I still hear my father's voice when..."
466
00:26:29,421 --> 00:26:30,630
Whenever.
467
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:34,050
I mean, it's as deep as like, whenever.
468
00:26:34,050 --> 00:26:36,553
His voice is ringing through my head.
469
00:26:36,553 --> 00:26:42,309
His voice was, you know, with me
on my first day at Princeton, you know,
470
00:26:42,309 --> 00:26:46,896
settling myself
into this bastion of elitism.
471
00:26:46,896 --> 00:26:51,568
You know? He was with me
on my first day at my law firm.
472
00:26:51,568 --> 00:26:53,320
And even after he died,
473
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,905
he still was there walking me
down the aisle
474
00:26:55,905 --> 00:26:59,367
because he helped model for me
the man I should have.
475
00:26:59,367 --> 00:27:01,745
So I was able to see Barack.
476
00:27:01,745 --> 00:27:06,666
I was able to see him,
see past all the external stuff,
477
00:27:06,666 --> 00:27:10,295
and the external stuff
was really pretty good ladies, but...
478
00:27:12,922 --> 00:27:18,595
but I could see what was important
to look for in a man.
479
00:27:18,595 --> 00:27:23,558
You know? He's with me now,
he is with me on this stage.
480
00:27:23,558 --> 00:27:29,439
He is what I tap into when I'm trying
to speak some truth to people
481
00:27:29,439 --> 00:27:32,609
and show my authenticity
and my vulnerability.
482
00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:34,444
He is there whenever.
483
00:27:35,111 --> 00:27:39,866
I love that you said that he helped you
in many ways
484
00:27:39,866 --> 00:27:44,621
to be able to see what you needed to see
in Barack Obama.
485
00:27:44,621 --> 00:27:46,581
Can we talk about
your husband for a minute?
486
00:27:46,581 --> 00:27:49,876
- Oh, yes, please. Yes, please.
- Okay.
487
00:27:49,876 --> 00:27:51,836
People have tried
488
00:27:51,836 --> 00:27:55,965
to capture your love story.
489
00:27:55,965 --> 00:27:59,552
- Oh, there he goes.
- They've tried to capture the love story.
490
00:27:59,552 --> 00:28:02,472
They made a movie,
the drama movie,
491
00:28:02,472 --> 00:28:05,642
they did the series on the First Lady.
492
00:28:05,642 --> 00:28:08,395
They did--
trying, but they can't get it!
493
00:28:08,395 --> 00:28:09,938
- Nah.
- They cannot get it.
494
00:28:09,938 --> 00:28:14,818
But you summed it up so completely
in just one sentence
495
00:28:14,818 --> 00:28:17,195
that was so powerful that when I read it,
496
00:28:17,195 --> 00:28:19,906
it actually stopped me
and made my eyes water.
497
00:28:19,906 --> 00:28:22,075
You remember what the sentence was
in the book?
498
00:28:22,075 --> 00:28:23,868
- No, what was it?
499
00:28:23,868 --> 00:28:26,037
Well, I don't know what sentence
made you weep.
500
00:28:26,037 --> 00:28:28,873
Okay, the sentence--
501
00:28:28,873 --> 00:28:32,127
You were talking about you've lived
many places.
502
00:28:33,378 --> 00:28:39,300
- And... "And Barack is my home!"
- Oh, and Barack is my home.
503
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:40,802
- Yes.
-"Barack is my home."
504
00:28:40,802 --> 00:28:43,138
- Barack is my home.
-"Barack is my home."
505
00:28:43,138 --> 00:28:44,305
Yes, he is.
506
00:28:44,305 --> 00:28:48,059
Now, go home and see
if you can ask yourself that question.
507
00:28:50,937 --> 00:28:52,480
About the person you with.
508
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,815
You so silly.
509
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,360
Are they your home?
510
00:28:58,278 --> 00:29:02,449
And I appreciate
how you break it down to us
511
00:29:02,449 --> 00:29:05,118
that first trip to Hawaii.
512
00:29:05,118 --> 00:29:08,329
Because when you first arrived in Hawaii,
you were looking for--
513
00:29:08,329 --> 00:29:10,457
and I understand why,
you a working woman
514
00:29:10,457 --> 00:29:12,041
and had never been to Hawaii,
515
00:29:12,041 --> 00:29:14,294
so you looking for the Hawaii
in Hawaii Five-O.
516
00:29:14,294 --> 00:29:15,837
Those of you who remember that show.
517
00:29:15,837 --> 00:29:19,132
- Mai tais and sunsets on the beach.
- Mai tais and honeymoon...
518
00:29:19,132 --> 00:29:20,383
and honeymoon suites.
519
00:29:20,383 --> 00:29:21,926
But instead...
520
00:29:21,926 --> 00:29:25,138
Yeah, instead, it was a trip home
to visit his family.
521
00:29:25,138 --> 00:29:26,514
That's where he was from.
522
00:29:26,514 --> 00:29:29,100
He wasn't going back
to some island vacation,
523
00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:31,519
he was going back to be with his people.
524
00:29:31,519 --> 00:29:35,440
But I was young
and I was-- it was cold in Chicago
525
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,567
and I thought,
"I'm going to Hawaii with my man."
526
00:29:37,567 --> 00:29:39,152
"It's gonna be so romantic."
527
00:29:41,613 --> 00:29:45,116
And then we landed and we went straight
to Toot and Gramps' apartment.
528
00:29:45,116 --> 00:29:46,326
No ocean.
529
00:29:46,326 --> 00:29:49,245
It was a high-rise building,
go up to the tenth floor,
530
00:29:49,245 --> 00:29:53,249
you know, walk in.
Looks like my grandparents' house.
531
00:29:53,249 --> 00:29:56,795
Might as well be on south side of Chicago,
which was a wonderful thing.
532
00:29:56,795 --> 00:29:57,754
- Right?
- Yes.
533
00:29:57,754 --> 00:30:02,133
To know that I was familiar
with his family, right?
534
00:30:02,133 --> 00:30:04,344
Then we cuddle up. What's on the TV?
535
00:30:04,344 --> 00:30:05,845
60 Minutes.
536
00:30:05,845 --> 00:30:10,308
And, you know,
they-- they pull out some TV trays
537
00:30:10,308 --> 00:30:13,561
and I think we probably had
tuna sandwiches with sweet pickles.
538
00:30:13,561 --> 00:30:15,480
I was like, "Yes, I do like this."
539
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,273
But then some days,
you would go to the beach.
540
00:30:17,273 --> 00:30:18,817
And then I love the moment where he says,
541
00:30:18,817 --> 00:30:20,985
-"Okay, gotta go."
-"We're going back to Toot and Gramps'."
542
00:30:20,985 --> 00:30:23,112
-"We're going back to the house."
- Like, "Aw," you know.
543
00:30:23,112 --> 00:30:25,615
So I was young and silly
and I started feeling like,
544
00:30:25,615 --> 00:30:30,119
"I don't know if I like this.
It's not as romantic as I thought."
545
00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:31,538
Although, I didn't act like that.
546
00:30:31,538 --> 00:30:34,958
So my mother knows I did not act
like some little spoiled person.
547
00:30:34,958 --> 00:30:36,459
- I was very--
- But you are thinking,
548
00:30:36,459 --> 00:30:38,920
-"Where is the Hawaii from Hawaii-Five-O?"
- Yeah. Where is--
549
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,588
Right. Exactly.
550
00:30:40,588 --> 00:30:43,550
But I conclude the story
by saying that, you know,
551
00:30:43,550 --> 00:30:47,220
what Barack was showing me
was the real of him.
552
00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:50,306
And sometimes as people looking
for partners,
553
00:30:50,306 --> 00:30:53,476
we're looking for what we think
are mai tais and sunsets,
554
00:30:53,476 --> 00:30:56,771
and what we need is somebody
who respects and loves their family
555
00:30:56,771 --> 00:30:59,274
- and is going to show up for them...
- And showing you that.
556
00:30:59,274 --> 00:31:01,818
- ...again and again.
- That's what they're showing you.
557
00:31:01,818 --> 00:31:05,238
And Barack valued the time
that he had with his family.
558
00:31:05,238 --> 00:31:06,573
It was nice to go to the beach,
559
00:31:06,573 --> 00:31:10,702
but being there for his mother
and his grandmother, his little sister,
560
00:31:10,702 --> 00:31:14,831
helping them work through their stuff,
he was the rock of their family.
561
00:31:14,831 --> 00:31:18,585
And let me just tell you,
he always shows up
562
00:31:18,585 --> 00:31:21,462
for me and the girls in that same way.
563
00:31:21,462 --> 00:31:25,091
He is present and there when we need him.
564
00:31:25,091 --> 00:31:27,343
And that's what
he was showing me in Hawaii
565
00:31:27,343 --> 00:31:29,345
when I was trying to get to the beach.
566
00:31:29,345 --> 00:31:32,807
I think what we also appreciate
567
00:31:32,807 --> 00:31:36,644
in both Becoming
and also in The Light We Carry
568
00:31:36,644 --> 00:31:41,566
is how you are so candid
about your relationship,
569
00:31:41,566 --> 00:31:44,485
about your life, and how everything
is not perfect.
570
00:31:44,485 --> 00:31:48,031
You say it took some time
and a lot of practice
571
00:31:48,031 --> 00:31:51,075
for you all to work through
your disagreements.
572
00:31:51,075 --> 00:31:54,579
- So, what's your style and his style?
- Yeah.
573
00:31:54,579 --> 00:31:58,207
You know, I've said this to him,
I've said this before,
574
00:31:58,207 --> 00:32:01,336
one of the things that's different
in how we show love is that
575
00:32:01,336 --> 00:32:04,923
because his family lived far away
and traveled a lot,
576
00:32:04,923 --> 00:32:08,343
he had to learn to love at a distance,
you know?
577
00:32:08,343 --> 00:32:13,848
And that means there are more words said,
more love exchanged,
578
00:32:13,848 --> 00:32:15,600
more physical, you know...
579
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,269
- The "I love you" and all that.
- Yeah, "I love you. I love you."
580
00:32:18,269 --> 00:32:20,521
-"Love you too. Love you too." You know?
- Yeah.
581
00:32:21,648 --> 00:32:23,733
I grew up where everybody, like,
582
00:32:23,733 --> 00:32:26,277
within eight blocks of each other,
you know,
583
00:32:26,277 --> 00:32:29,906
all my aunts and uncles,
and great uncles and cousins
584
00:32:29,906 --> 00:32:32,533
and, you know,
everybody celebrated birthdays.
585
00:32:32,533 --> 00:32:35,078
So we were with each other every weekend,
586
00:32:35,078 --> 00:32:37,997
twice a week, and, "Happy birthday
to you." That's what we did.
587
00:32:37,997 --> 00:32:40,291
We were always together,
so it was like, "Bye.
588
00:32:40,291 --> 00:32:43,836
I don't have to tell you I love you 'cause
I'm gonna see you Saturday, right?"
589
00:32:45,421 --> 00:32:49,300
So love for me was showing up, you know,
it was like,
590
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:53,054
"Yeah, yeah, stop kissing me,
just do the laundry."
591
00:32:54,138 --> 00:32:57,433
And we also are temperamentally different.
You know?
592
00:32:57,433 --> 00:33:00,520
Guess what I am?
Kind of hot-headed, you know?
593
00:33:01,312 --> 00:33:02,897
Talkative, easy to get mad.
594
00:33:02,897 --> 00:33:06,275
It's like, "What?"
Barack wants to talk rationally.
595
00:33:06,275 --> 00:33:10,321
And I'm like, "Rational?
Ration-- Don't come to me with sense.
596
00:33:10,321 --> 00:33:11,656
- I'm angry.
597
00:33:11,656 --> 00:33:13,866
Don't come to me
with your three bullet points.
598
00:33:13,866 --> 00:33:16,411
You better get out of here
and let me cool down."
599
00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:20,415
I don't wanna hear none of that reason.
600
00:33:20,415 --> 00:33:23,835
Okay. So how long--
What's the cooling off period for you?
601
00:33:23,835 --> 00:33:26,504
It's definitely, like,
what he thought was like,
602
00:33:26,504 --> 00:33:28,798
"Okay, that was five minutes.
Are you ready to talk?"
603
00:33:28,798 --> 00:33:30,341
It's like, "That's not enough!"
604
00:33:32,176 --> 00:33:35,513
It's time. It could be hours.
605
00:33:35,513 --> 00:33:37,765
Sometimes it could be days
where I just don't--
606
00:33:37,765 --> 00:33:39,726
I just don't want to talk to you
right now.
607
00:33:39,726 --> 00:33:41,060
But we had to learn--
608
00:33:41,060 --> 00:33:43,980
But here's the thing,
we had to learn how to compromise.
609
00:33:43,980 --> 00:33:47,316
I have to learn that I can't pop off
on him, you know?
610
00:33:47,316 --> 00:33:51,571
And also, he's got to give me
space to calm down.
611
00:33:51,571 --> 00:33:52,989
That-- That is a lesson.
612
00:33:52,989 --> 00:33:56,451
We're still-- We're still practicing that,
but I share it
613
00:33:56,451 --> 00:33:59,996
because I see so many young couples
614
00:33:59,996 --> 00:34:03,416
who don't know what real marriage is.
615
00:34:03,416 --> 00:34:06,335
You know?
They spend more time, you know,
616
00:34:06,335 --> 00:34:10,298
picking out the third dress
for the wedding and reception
617
00:34:10,298 --> 00:34:13,468
and the wish board
of the flowers they want,
618
00:34:13,468 --> 00:34:16,596
and, you know,
planning the third bachelorette thing.
619
00:34:16,596 --> 00:34:19,682
I mean, y'all spend
way too much money on weddings.
620
00:34:19,682 --> 00:34:22,101
- Way too much.
621
00:34:22,101 --> 00:34:24,312
- And--
- Yeah, what you want is big anniversaries.
622
00:34:24,312 --> 00:34:27,732
- You want big, huge anniversaries, right?
- You want big anniversaries.
623
00:34:27,732 --> 00:34:30,943
But we have to be honest with people,
624
00:34:30,943 --> 00:34:34,197
I believe, more of us have to be honest
about the work
625
00:34:34,197 --> 00:34:36,908
that it takes to build a life
with another person.
626
00:34:36,908 --> 00:34:41,204
It-- To me, it doesn't seem, like,
it's that controversial, you know?
627
00:34:41,204 --> 00:34:43,122
- I mean--
- What's controversial
628
00:34:43,122 --> 00:34:46,626
is somebody of your stature
being dishonest about it.
629
00:34:46,626 --> 00:34:48,336
That's exactly right.
630
00:34:48,336 --> 00:34:51,964
You know? It's like all,
"hashtag relationship goals,"
631
00:34:51,964 --> 00:34:54,967
and I'm like,
"I was mad at him in that picture."
632
00:34:54,967 --> 00:34:55,968
Not only that...
633
00:35:02,642 --> 00:35:06,062
So you told Gayle during the tour
in Philadelphia,
634
00:35:06,062 --> 00:35:09,816
which was just a couple of weeks ago,
that in 30 years of marriage,
635
00:35:09,816 --> 00:35:11,901
ten of them, you couldn't stand
your husband.
636
00:35:11,901 --> 00:35:13,444
- Exactly.
- And then...
637
00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:15,655
You know, and people are like,
"Oh, my God!"
638
00:35:15,655 --> 00:35:17,949
Yes. Social media went crazy, like...
639
00:35:17,949 --> 00:35:21,035
- I was like, "It's been 30 years."
- Look at Michelle Obama keeping it real.
640
00:35:21,035 --> 00:35:22,245
- Keeping it real.
- Exactly.
641
00:35:22,245 --> 00:35:25,873
That's because social media
is anything but real, you know?
642
00:35:25,873 --> 00:35:29,752
They wouldn't know real social media
if it kicked them in the face.
643
00:35:29,752 --> 00:35:32,672
Why do you think, though,
that struck such a nerve?
644
00:35:32,672 --> 00:35:36,801
- Like, when you said 30 years--
- Well, because young people can't imagine
645
00:35:36,801 --> 00:35:39,929
being unhappy for a minute,
let alone for ten years.
646
00:35:39,929 --> 00:35:43,182
It's like, "I can't--
I deserve to be happy."
647
00:35:43,182 --> 00:35:48,104
And it's like, "Who said that?
Where'd you get that from?"
648
00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:52,733
I was never raised that happy--,
my personal happiness,
649
00:35:52,733 --> 00:35:56,487
and my feelings in my household.
It was like, "You better sit down."
650
00:35:56,487 --> 00:35:58,614
"I don't care what you talking about."
651
00:36:00,783 --> 00:36:06,706
But, you know, the point being is that
you are gonna hit on some hard times.
652
00:36:06,706 --> 00:36:10,168
Because if you're married for 30 years,
and you have ten bad ones,
653
00:36:10,168 --> 00:36:12,962
I would take those odds, you know?
654
00:36:12,962 --> 00:36:18,843
But I also said they happen to coincide
with the birth of the children.
655
00:36:21,095 --> 00:36:24,390
Those two, they ruined all the love.
656
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:27,101
They just sucked it out of the house.
657
00:36:27,852 --> 00:36:32,899
They came in with their cuteness
and their needing to eat all the time
658
00:36:32,899 --> 00:36:37,528
and their inability to communicate
and you can't be mad at them.
659
00:36:37,528 --> 00:36:39,572
I mean, they're cute.
They're your babies.
660
00:36:39,572 --> 00:36:44,452
So who else is in the household
that I can, "Oh, it's you!"
661
00:36:45,828 --> 00:36:48,664
"It's your fault, Barack Obama."
662
00:36:51,334 --> 00:36:55,630
So, and then they, you know,
they grow up and they leave the nest
663
00:36:55,630 --> 00:36:59,675
and it's like, "Oh, there you are."
664
00:36:59,675 --> 00:37:02,345
"That's my boo. I remember you."
665
00:37:02,345 --> 00:37:04,472
That's about ten years, you know?
666
00:37:05,181 --> 00:37:08,351
- So, look--
- So, what for you is romantic now?
667
00:37:08,351 --> 00:37:10,686
- What do you consider romantic?
- Romantic is...
668
00:37:10,686 --> 00:37:14,523
I love when my husband
plans something, right?
669
00:37:14,523 --> 00:37:17,401
Because it is-- it is hard to plan
670
00:37:17,401 --> 00:37:20,071
when you are the president
or the former president, right?
671
00:37:20,071 --> 00:37:22,073
So if he can surprise me with a--
672
00:37:22,073 --> 00:37:26,661
And he gets so pleased with himself
when he pulls something off, right?
673
00:37:26,661 --> 00:37:29,705
And our 30th anniversary was probably
674
00:37:29,705 --> 00:37:32,750
the latest romantic thing that he did
675
00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:35,628
because he recreated our honeymoon,
676
00:37:35,628 --> 00:37:40,466
which was driving along the Pacific Coast
when we were first married.
677
00:37:40,466 --> 00:37:46,347
We started in San Francisco, rented a car,
drove all the way down through Big Sur,
678
00:37:46,347 --> 00:37:50,268
stopped and saw the Redwoods
and went through Santa Barbara,
679
00:37:50,268 --> 00:37:53,437
and then ended in LA,
and it was just the two of us.
680
00:37:53,437 --> 00:37:54,605
And he created that.
681
00:37:54,605 --> 00:37:57,566
Now, it wasn't just the two of us
because we were in a motorcade,
682
00:37:57,566 --> 00:38:01,279
and we had our agents
and three cars behind.
683
00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:05,783
In that shot, there are like 12 people
in the back, you know, trying to hide.
684
00:38:06,826 --> 00:38:09,453
It's changed, but everyone was so excited.
685
00:38:09,453 --> 00:38:13,374
All of his agents were like,
"You-- You-- We're going on a walk next."
686
00:38:13,374 --> 00:38:16,794
And it's like-- And they were trying to--
they were trying to lay back,
687
00:38:16,794 --> 00:38:20,047
and all our aids.
We travel with a crowd, you know?
688
00:38:20,047 --> 00:38:22,341
- But he planned it.
- It was romantic.
689
00:38:22,341 --> 00:38:26,429
It was very romantic.
It was very, very sweet.
690
00:38:26,429 --> 00:38:29,307
- And he didn't golf, not once.
- Okay. At all?
691
00:38:29,974 --> 00:38:34,353
Okay. So in Becoming,
you told us so much about, you know,
692
00:38:34,353 --> 00:38:37,732
the years when he was away,
and those years,
693
00:38:37,732 --> 00:38:41,819
I think, when you were feeling badly
in the relationship, in the marriage.
694
00:38:41,819 --> 00:38:46,907
Has it changed now that he's home?
695
00:38:47,783 --> 00:38:51,495
Where the-- all the wives are like, "Mmm."
696
00:38:51,495 --> 00:38:53,289
Has it changed?
697
00:38:53,289 --> 00:38:55,750
- Yeah.
- Is he a different kind of husband now
698
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:58,502
than he was in all those years
with all the pressure?
699
00:38:58,502 --> 00:38:59,712
Well, you know what?
700
00:38:59,712 --> 00:39:03,466
No, I think he's been pretty consistent,
you know?
701
00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:06,135
I've grown, I've changed.
702
00:39:07,136 --> 00:39:11,390
I've learned that, you know,
over these years that I, you know,
703
00:39:11,390 --> 00:39:13,476
I have to make me happy, you know?
704
00:39:13,476 --> 00:39:16,687
It goes back to the-- the lessons
from my father.
705
00:39:16,687 --> 00:39:19,315
- He's not responsible for my happiness.
706
00:39:19,315 --> 00:39:21,192
He loves me, he cares about me,
707
00:39:21,192 --> 00:39:25,488
but most of my unhappiness
had to do with choices I was making,
708
00:39:25,488 --> 00:39:27,615
like I had to be the perfect mother.
709
00:39:27,615 --> 00:39:29,408
I had to do everything right.
710
00:39:29,408 --> 00:39:31,577
I had to hold down a job
and make sure that the--
711
00:39:31,577 --> 00:39:36,540
I was holding myself to a standard
that was stressful for me.
712
00:39:37,124 --> 00:39:41,504
- And also impossible.
- And absolutely impossible.
713
00:39:41,504 --> 00:39:44,840
Because you can have it all,
perhaps, but you can't have it all--
714
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,008
At the same time.
715
00:39:46,008 --> 00:39:48,928
- Let us say that again.
- You can-- You say it.
716
00:39:48,928 --> 00:39:52,473
You can have it all,
but not at the same time.
717
00:39:52,473 --> 00:39:55,309
You really can't.
You know, that whole--
718
00:39:55,309 --> 00:39:57,144
No, it is impossible,
719
00:39:57,144 --> 00:39:59,522
especially if you want to be
a good parent,
720
00:39:59,522 --> 00:40:01,774
you know, and spend
any time with your kids.
721
00:40:01,774 --> 00:40:05,945
It's a tough balancing act.
722
00:40:06,821 --> 00:40:09,824
I really appreciated in The Light We Carry
723
00:40:09,824 --> 00:40:14,954
when you talked about how you recognized
and Barack recognized
724
00:40:14,954 --> 00:40:17,415
that you couldn't be everything
for each other,
725
00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:21,961
and that's why your kitchen table
of friends is so important,
726
00:40:21,961 --> 00:40:26,382
and as you say, has helped
to take the pressure off of your marriage.
727
00:40:26,382 --> 00:40:29,844
- Yeah. Absolutely.
- Tell us about that kitchen table.
728
00:40:29,844 --> 00:40:32,179
You know-- All right.
729
00:40:32,179 --> 00:40:35,474
I'm going to tell the story
of when you met my kitchen table.
730
00:40:35,474 --> 00:40:37,393
- Yeah. Tell it, sure.
- Can I tell that story?
731
00:40:37,393 --> 00:40:39,437
It's not in the book, but...
732
00:40:39,437 --> 00:40:43,524
Oprah kindly hosted
my 50th birthday party.
733
00:40:43,524 --> 00:40:45,109
- Was it my 50th?
- It was your 50th.
734
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:47,486
Not just your 50th-- Oh, see,
I wasn't going to tell that story.
735
00:40:47,486 --> 00:40:49,196
- I didn't know I could tell that story.
- Okay.
736
00:40:49,196 --> 00:40:51,240
So you said yes before you knew
I was talking about it.
737
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,742
No, I know you gon'-- I want you
to talk about what I was gonna--
738
00:40:53,742 --> 00:40:55,202
I was gonna-- A moment ago,
739
00:40:55,202 --> 00:40:59,540
say Barack Obama,
President of the United States,
740
00:40:59,540 --> 00:41:02,543
- called me...
- Yeah, right.
741
00:41:02,543 --> 00:41:05,629
to ask me would I host--
742
00:41:05,629 --> 00:41:07,298
And at the end of the conversation,
743
00:41:07,298 --> 00:41:10,801
he says, "Make sure you note
that I'm the one making this call."
744
00:41:13,762 --> 00:41:17,183
"I'm the one that told you
to arrange all this."
745
00:41:17,183 --> 00:41:20,102
"So I'm the one that made the call.
I didn't have an assistant call you."
746
00:41:20,102 --> 00:41:22,146
So when you were telling that story,
I just thought,
747
00:41:22,146 --> 00:41:24,773
-"Oh, that's why he said that."
- That's why he said that.
748
00:41:24,773 --> 00:41:27,151
-"I'm the one that's making this call."
- That's right.
749
00:41:27,151 --> 00:41:30,321
So we're coming to stay with you,
graciously hosting us,
750
00:41:30,321 --> 00:41:33,616
you said, "Bring your friends,"
and I was like, "Okay."
751
00:41:34,283 --> 00:41:37,244
And she's like, "How many people?"
And I said, "Well, it's like 12."
752
00:41:37,244 --> 00:41:39,330
- Twelve.
- And you were like...
753
00:41:39,330 --> 00:41:42,291
What'd you say? You were like,
"You don't have 12 good friends."
754
00:41:42,291 --> 00:41:45,544
- I did.
- I was like, "I do, I do."
755
00:41:45,544 --> 00:41:49,173
-"I'm not trying to stack the date!"
- Who has 12 good friends?
756
00:41:49,173 --> 00:41:50,424
I do.
757
00:41:50,424 --> 00:41:53,010
And-- And Oprah's like, "I got Gayle."
758
00:41:54,303 --> 00:41:56,305
- And what I said was like--
- The only person
759
00:41:56,305 --> 00:41:59,391
I know with 12 good friends
was Jesus and the disciples.
760
00:42:01,894 --> 00:42:03,395
That's the only person I know.
761
00:42:03,395 --> 00:42:06,524
- But then you met--
- And then one of them betrayed him.
762
00:42:08,108 --> 00:42:09,318
Okay?
763
00:42:10,152 --> 00:42:12,696
- But then you met my kitchen table.
- Yes.
764
00:42:12,696 --> 00:42:18,369
And you saw that I collect and keep
my friends throughout life, you know.
765
00:42:18,369 --> 00:42:21,956
So I got my roommate from college,
766
00:42:21,956 --> 00:42:24,917
I've got my best friend from law school,
767
00:42:24,917 --> 00:42:29,004
I've got the moms who, you know,
helped me in Chicago,
768
00:42:29,004 --> 00:42:31,799
we were like a unit,
we raised our kids together.
769
00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:33,926
Some of those kids are here tonight.
770
00:42:33,926 --> 00:42:36,595
- You know, they are like my children.
- Yes.
771
00:42:36,595 --> 00:42:40,266
I had a whole new set
of mom friends and women
772
00:42:40,266 --> 00:42:41,976
in Washington, D.C.
773
00:42:41,976 --> 00:42:44,770
who could understand that life,
774
00:42:44,770 --> 00:42:49,316
a couple of who were married to people
in Barack's administration.
775
00:42:49,316 --> 00:42:51,694
And when you're in that world,
776
00:42:51,694 --> 00:42:55,489
you need someone who understands,
like, that plight.
777
00:42:55,489 --> 00:42:57,616
They were my ride or dies.
778
00:42:57,616 --> 00:43:02,162
So I tend to collect people
throughout life and keep them.
779
00:43:02,913 --> 00:43:07,167
Because different people
bring different things to my life.
780
00:43:07,167 --> 00:43:11,672
But the bottom line
is that I call it my kitchen table
781
00:43:11,672 --> 00:43:16,385
because the kitchen table in our home
was always the place
782
00:43:16,385 --> 00:43:18,596
where we felt safe, you know?
783
00:43:18,596 --> 00:43:22,349
We'd come in as little kids
from the woes of the playground
784
00:43:22,349 --> 00:43:26,979
and the, you know,
give and take of the neighborhood
785
00:43:26,979 --> 00:43:29,773
and complaining about a teacher
or some unfairness
786
00:43:29,773 --> 00:43:32,943
and you could always let it out
at the kitchen table.
787
00:43:32,943 --> 00:43:34,278
You felt safe and seen.
788
00:43:34,278 --> 00:43:38,907
It was probably the first table
where I felt seen by my mother and father
789
00:43:38,907 --> 00:43:41,702
who loved to hear our stories
and our voices.
790
00:43:41,702 --> 00:43:45,414
But you always got rejuvenated
at that table.
791
00:43:45,414 --> 00:43:48,751
You know, you could let out the insults
and the slights
792
00:43:48,751 --> 00:43:52,046
and yell and scream
and get that out your system
793
00:43:52,046 --> 00:43:54,590
so that you could get yourself together
794
00:43:54,590 --> 00:43:57,676
and go back out there
like you had some sense, you know?
795
00:43:57,676 --> 00:44:01,055
So my kitchen table is that for me.
796
00:44:01,055 --> 00:44:05,517
There are so many different aspects
to my life, you know?
797
00:44:05,517 --> 00:44:09,521
I've had so many different facets,
from motherhood to professionalism,
798
00:44:09,521 --> 00:44:10,898
and on and on and on,
799
00:44:10,898 --> 00:44:13,817
that that table has just
gotten bigger and bigger.
800
00:44:13,817 --> 00:44:15,986
This is a question, just occurred to me.
801
00:44:15,986 --> 00:44:20,574
Did all of the friends--
So I met those 12, kitchen table--
802
00:44:20,574 --> 00:44:25,079
But did all of your friends make the cut
once you went to the White House?
803
00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:26,080
Nope.
804
00:44:27,247 --> 00:44:29,083
- No, they did not.
- Because, you know what?
805
00:44:29,083 --> 00:44:31,168
I remember having a conversation with you,
806
00:44:31,168 --> 00:44:35,047
and we were talking about-- and you said,
"Lost oxygen, couldn't make the climb."
807
00:44:35,047 --> 00:44:39,843
- Yep. Nope.
-"Lost oxygen, couldn't make the climb."
808
00:44:39,843 --> 00:44:43,847
And I tell the story about friendship
because, you know, we--
809
00:44:43,847 --> 00:44:45,766
It feels like we--
810
00:44:45,766 --> 00:44:49,520
The studies are showing
that people have fewer friends than ever,
811
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,315
and we're reporting
these ridiculous rates of loneliness.
812
00:44:53,315 --> 00:44:54,274
Loneliness, yes.
813
00:44:54,274 --> 00:44:56,777
I think social media
has gotten us out of the habit.
814
00:44:56,777 --> 00:44:59,279
I think our young people,
because of the pandemic,
815
00:44:59,279 --> 00:45:01,990
they think they've got friends
on social media.
816
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:06,620
I remember Sasha's first account
with that, you know, when she was little,
817
00:45:06,620 --> 00:45:09,039
and we let her have a--
whatever it was called,
818
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:11,125
and then she comes up but the--
819
00:45:11,125 --> 00:45:14,753
Because we had everybody follow her,
agents, staff, you know.
820
00:45:14,753 --> 00:45:17,714
It was like, you know,
if you gon' have this,
821
00:45:17,714 --> 00:45:20,426
everybody's watching.
And then somebody came back and said,
822
00:45:20,426 --> 00:45:22,636
"You know,
Sasha's got a thousand friends,"
823
00:45:22,636 --> 00:45:24,304
and I was like, "Little girl,
824
00:45:25,097 --> 00:45:28,183
you don't know a thousand people,"
you know?
825
00:45:28,183 --> 00:45:29,810
But that's how young people--
It's early.
826
00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:33,063
You think you got a thousand friends
and you're, you know, ten?
827
00:45:33,063 --> 00:45:34,982
We've gotten out of that habit.
828
00:45:34,982 --> 00:45:36,567
But we need people.
829
00:45:36,567 --> 00:45:39,069
We need real contact.
830
00:45:39,069 --> 00:45:43,699
We need connection
to keep us grounded and stable.
831
00:45:43,699 --> 00:45:45,826
So for the friends
that didn't make the cut
832
00:45:45,826 --> 00:45:48,537
- or couldn't-- who lost oxygen--
- Oh, yeah, we'll go back to...
833
00:45:48,537 --> 00:45:49,913
- Yeah.
- ...who didn't make the cut.
834
00:45:49,913 --> 00:45:51,748
I want to know
for the friends who didn't make it,
835
00:45:51,748 --> 00:45:56,295
did you actually have to tell them that,
"Sorry," or did somebody else tell 'em?
836
00:45:56,295 --> 00:45:59,506
There were different versions
for different people, right?
837
00:45:59,506 --> 00:46:02,426
Depending upon what the issue was.
838
00:46:02,426 --> 00:46:04,386
But here's the thing that I learned.
839
00:46:04,386 --> 00:46:08,056
Stay open to friends,
be open to making new ones.
840
00:46:08,056 --> 00:46:09,641
I want my girls to be this way
841
00:46:09,641 --> 00:46:12,519
because I don't want them living
in the world afraid of opening up
842
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:14,313
and making friends, you know?
843
00:46:14,313 --> 00:46:16,356
'Cause you got sense, you can trust,
844
00:46:16,356 --> 00:46:19,359
you know when people,
how far they-- to take them,
845
00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:22,196
but when they show you who they are,
you gotta...
846
00:46:22,196 --> 00:46:26,158
- Believe them. Believe them.
- Gotta believe them, and then move on.
847
00:46:26,158 --> 00:46:31,997
And some friends, you know, had foibles
that were fine for regular friends.
848
00:46:32,706 --> 00:46:35,209
But once you--
we get into the White House,
849
00:46:35,209 --> 00:46:39,755
it's like, "Oh, you--
Oh, you can't be that person...
850
00:46:39,755 --> 00:46:42,758
- Up in here.
- ...and be up in here, you know?"
851
00:46:42,758 --> 00:46:45,302
It's like, "We-- We got too much
at stake."
852
00:46:45,302 --> 00:46:46,637
- Absolutely.
- You know?
853
00:46:46,637 --> 00:46:48,889
And they weren't gon' be
my friends that messed up.
854
00:46:48,889 --> 00:46:51,308
I mean, Barack might want to keep
some friends that--
855
00:46:51,308 --> 00:46:53,352
but that, it was his presidency.
856
00:46:53,352 --> 00:46:56,188
But my--
if my friends weren't acting right?
857
00:46:56,188 --> 00:46:58,732
It was like "slow ghost."
858
00:46:58,732 --> 00:47:00,734
You know, the "slow ghost"?
859
00:47:00,734 --> 00:47:03,695
Where you don't like,
cut 'em off right away,
860
00:47:03,695 --> 00:47:08,116
- but you just become less available?
861
00:47:08,116 --> 00:47:11,537
- Slow ghost. Okay.
- Slow ghost.
862
00:47:13,539 --> 00:47:18,335
I really appreciated how
in Becoming you talked about,
863
00:47:18,335 --> 00:47:22,923
and you use this word,
the velocity of things coming at you
864
00:47:22,923 --> 00:47:24,967
when you were in the White House.
865
00:47:24,967 --> 00:47:27,678
And in The Light We Carry,
866
00:47:27,678 --> 00:47:31,515
you talk about it being surreal.
867
00:47:31,515 --> 00:47:33,809
- Yeah.
- There's a point where you say,
868
00:47:33,809 --> 00:47:37,771
"We needed a pencil box for Sasha
and a ball gown for me,
869
00:47:37,771 --> 00:47:41,775
and we needed a toothbrush holder,
and an economic rescue package."
870
00:47:41,775 --> 00:47:46,029
- Yes.
-"That my days became a surreal mishmash
871
00:47:46,029 --> 00:47:49,032
of the mundane and the extraordinary,"
is what you said.
872
00:47:49,032 --> 00:47:51,326
I appreciated the moment
where you talked about
873
00:47:51,326 --> 00:47:55,622
watching Sasha for
the first time with a playmate
874
00:47:55,622 --> 00:47:59,376
and the-- how relieved you were
seeing that that was working out.
875
00:47:59,376 --> 00:48:01,545
And then the playmate's mom
comes to pick her up,
876
00:48:01,545 --> 00:48:03,839
secret service is like,
"Don't get out of the car."
877
00:48:03,839 --> 00:48:05,090
Yeah.
878
00:48:05,090 --> 00:48:09,052
And that mom ended up being
one of your kitchen table friends.
879
00:48:09,052 --> 00:48:10,137
Absolutely.
880
00:48:10,137 --> 00:48:12,931
I was more worried
about the girls settling in
881
00:48:12,931 --> 00:48:14,558
and having a normal life,
882
00:48:14,558 --> 00:48:19,313
and nothing spells normalcy
than having a playdate in your house,
883
00:48:19,313 --> 00:48:21,273
even if it's the White House.
884
00:48:21,273 --> 00:48:26,403
Having real friends and feeling like
a regular parent, you know?
885
00:48:26,403 --> 00:48:28,739
Going to the parent-teacher conference
886
00:48:28,739 --> 00:48:32,909
and, you know, Barack coached
the fourth grade Vipers,
887
00:48:32,909 --> 00:48:34,995
a little girls basketball league.
888
00:48:34,995 --> 00:48:36,830
He was the coach.
889
00:48:36,830 --> 00:48:40,000
I know. I don't know
if I've told that story before.
890
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,085
He's written about it in his book,
891
00:48:42,085 --> 00:48:47,174
but he was the parent coach
of her fourth-grade team.
892
00:48:47,174 --> 00:48:49,885
- Were people freaking out?
- That was kind of surreal,
893
00:48:49,885 --> 00:48:52,888
probably more so
for everybody else in the gym,
894
00:48:52,888 --> 00:48:58,226
but he would start easing his way down,
because it was a parent coach team,
895
00:48:58,226 --> 00:49:01,938
and he being a basketball freak
was very disturbed
896
00:49:01,938 --> 00:49:04,483
by the fact that the little girls
weren't tying their shoes
897
00:49:04,483 --> 00:49:06,443
and they were running no plays.
898
00:49:07,152 --> 00:49:10,447
And he felt like
they were just squandering their skills...
899
00:49:10,447 --> 00:49:13,367
- ...and it wasn't just Sasha on the team,
900
00:49:13,367 --> 00:49:18,038
but it was also Maisy Biden,
who's Joe's youngest granddaughter.
901
00:49:18,038 --> 00:49:19,623
They're best of friends.
902
00:49:19,623 --> 00:49:22,209
But Maisy was a superb athlete
903
00:49:22,209 --> 00:49:25,087
and Barack felt like
they could be champions.
904
00:49:25,087 --> 00:49:29,299
So he's slowly moved
those coaches out of the way
905
00:49:29,299 --> 00:49:34,680
and started running practices
for the girls outside on weekends.
906
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,265
They learned two plays,
I think one was "box"
907
00:49:37,265 --> 00:49:40,644
and it was, like-- that's all
they could manage, two plays.
908
00:49:41,603 --> 00:49:45,691
But being in that gym on any given Sunday
when they were playing in it--
909
00:49:45,691 --> 00:49:48,777
all of us went
because we were all kind of engaged.
910
00:49:48,777 --> 00:49:52,447
So you imagine a little community gym
on a Sunday
911
00:49:52,447 --> 00:49:57,244
with the President, the First Lady,
the Vice President, the Second Lady,
912
00:49:57,911 --> 00:50:01,665
Grandma, Malia, all of the kids,
913
00:50:01,665 --> 00:50:03,667
and all their agents
914
00:50:05,001 --> 00:50:07,754
descending upon this one gym,
915
00:50:07,754 --> 00:50:11,383
and then you got the people
on the other side, right?
916
00:50:13,468 --> 00:50:17,472
You know, and it wasn't like Joe
or Barack were holding back.
917
00:50:17,472 --> 00:50:21,685
They were like, "Shoot the ball!
Steal it! Steal it! Get her! Get her!"
918
00:50:21,685 --> 00:50:26,189
- And I'd have to say, "Joe, Joe." Like...
It's fourth grade.
919
00:50:26,189 --> 00:50:28,108
And you're the Vice President.
920
00:50:28,108 --> 00:50:29,443
Okay.
921
00:50:29,443 --> 00:50:33,363
You know? These little girls were like,
"Is he yelling at me?"
922
00:50:35,115 --> 00:50:37,159
But those times felt...
923
00:50:39,703 --> 00:50:43,415
Those times felt like...
that's when we felt like we were alive,
924
00:50:43,415 --> 00:50:46,376
and we were doing
not just the work of the country,
925
00:50:46,376 --> 00:50:50,672
but we weren't neglecting the children
that were ours. You know?
926
00:50:50,672 --> 00:50:55,552
We had a responsibility as parents
to make sure our kids weren't screwed up.
927
00:50:55,552 --> 00:50:58,346
Even as we, you know,
worked on health care
928
00:50:58,346 --> 00:51:00,432
and helped girls get an education.
929
00:51:00,432 --> 00:51:02,559
It's like, who would we be if we didn't...
930
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:04,561
- Great job.
- ...take care of our knitting,
931
00:51:04,561 --> 00:51:05,645
which was our girls.
932
00:51:08,273 --> 00:51:11,026
What is so surprising about
The Light We Carry
933
00:51:11,026 --> 00:51:13,403
is you open the door
to your own vulnerabilities.
934
00:51:13,403 --> 00:51:16,948
I mean, you just open them all up there,
935
00:51:16,948 --> 00:51:21,828
which makes us feel ever
and even more close to you,
936
00:51:21,828 --> 00:51:25,874
because you have shown us
that you are so real.
937
00:51:25,874 --> 00:51:30,670
And so, I wonder if you
still struggle with self-consciousness.
938
00:51:30,670 --> 00:51:33,048
Oh, my God, yes.
939
00:51:33,048 --> 00:51:36,092
That fearful mind
is still in there, you know?
940
00:51:36,092 --> 00:51:38,428
I'm still trying to manage her.
941
00:51:39,429 --> 00:51:45,185
But yeah, I think that, you know,
that's baked into my DNA as a Black woman.
942
00:51:46,144 --> 00:51:48,897
You know, I am here now, but, you know,
943
00:51:48,897 --> 00:51:51,900
I've had my slings and arrows, you know.
944
00:51:51,900 --> 00:51:54,986
I don't know if you remember
what it was like for us
945
00:51:54,986 --> 00:51:56,822
when we first came to the White House,
946
00:51:56,822 --> 00:52:00,742
when people were challenging
my husband's birth certificate
947
00:52:00,742 --> 00:52:04,621
and calling me an angry,
bitter Black woman
948
00:52:04,621 --> 00:52:07,332
and accusing us of not loving our country,
949
00:52:07,332 --> 00:52:10,210
not "being American," "one of them."
950
00:52:10,210 --> 00:52:13,755
That was part of the game
of "otherising" us, as I say,
951
00:52:13,755 --> 00:52:15,799
"Make them other, not like us,
952
00:52:15,799 --> 00:52:19,010
and then you'll be afraid of them
and scared of them."
953
00:52:19,010 --> 00:52:23,348
You know, you don't let go
of needing to constantly prove yourself
954
00:52:23,348 --> 00:52:27,143
because people's bar is so low for you.
955
00:52:27,143 --> 00:52:29,646
I know that there are a lot
of people in this audience
956
00:52:29,646 --> 00:52:32,315
who have experienced
people who continually
957
00:52:32,315 --> 00:52:35,110
- underestimate them, you know?
- Right. Right.
958
00:52:35,110 --> 00:52:39,322
Who talk down to you,
who think less of you, who misjudge you
959
00:52:39,322 --> 00:52:43,410
because of the-- your differentness,
whatever it is.
960
00:52:43,410 --> 00:52:46,204
And again,
I define differentness broadly.
961
00:52:46,204 --> 00:52:47,539
You carry that.
962
00:52:47,539 --> 00:52:51,793
But I have worked over time
to try to use that energy
963
00:52:51,793 --> 00:52:56,423
and fuel my light
and not let somebody else dim it.
964
00:52:56,423 --> 00:53:00,677
I've tried to take the attitude of,
"I'll show you."
965
00:53:00,677 --> 00:53:02,304
"You don't think I can do this?"
966
00:53:02,304 --> 00:53:04,723
"You don't think I'm gonna be
a good First Lady?"
967
00:53:04,723 --> 00:53:06,683
-"I'm going to work my butt off."
968
00:53:06,683 --> 00:53:11,146
So hard work, for me, is the way
I try to combat that.
969
00:53:11,146 --> 00:53:14,858
I'm going to work my way into visibility.
970
00:53:14,858 --> 00:53:19,779
I don't think anybody
who is not a person of color
971
00:53:19,779 --> 00:53:24,075
can ever fully understand when you say
in The Light We Carry
972
00:53:24,075 --> 00:53:27,704
that for eight years
as First Lady, you said,
973
00:53:27,704 --> 00:53:32,459
"I've been vigilant and cautious
and deeply aware that Barack and I,
974
00:53:32,459 --> 00:53:36,338
and our daughters,
had the eyes of the nation upon us,
975
00:53:36,338 --> 00:53:40,175
and that Black people
in an historically White House,
976
00:53:40,175 --> 00:53:44,220
- we could not afford to screw up."
- Yeah.
977
00:53:44,220 --> 00:53:47,307
And you did not.
978
00:53:49,517 --> 00:53:51,269
You did not!
979
00:53:52,854 --> 00:53:54,272
Not once!
980
00:53:56,566 --> 00:53:58,026
Not once!
981
00:54:00,028 --> 00:54:01,988
Not once did you screw up!
982
00:54:07,369 --> 00:54:09,245
Well, there was the tan suit.
983
00:54:09,245 --> 00:54:11,581
But there was the tan suit.
984
00:54:11,581 --> 00:54:14,417
Although, I was gonna say-- I know.
985
00:54:15,460 --> 00:54:17,671
Do you know how extraordinary that is?
986
00:54:17,671 --> 00:54:20,048
Not only did they not screw up,
987
00:54:20,048 --> 00:54:22,801
nobody in the family screwed up.
988
00:54:23,468 --> 00:54:25,679
There were no sidebar family members.
989
00:54:25,679 --> 00:54:30,225
But let me just say
what Marian Robinson always says,
990
00:54:30,225 --> 00:54:32,936
which is-- it keeps us humble
and focused.
991
00:54:32,936 --> 00:54:37,899
We're representing the truth
of who we have always been, you know?
992
00:54:37,899 --> 00:54:42,320
There are a lot of us out there
that people, again, who feel different,
993
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,950
who are proving their way into relevancy
and are not making missteps.
994
00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:50,370
And, you know, so that's why,
as my father tried to say,
995
00:54:50,370 --> 00:54:52,956
I have to constantly remind myself,
996
00:54:52,956 --> 00:54:56,376
"I cannot prove my way out
of somebody else's mirror
997
00:54:56,376 --> 00:54:58,920
if they're choosing to see me
in a different way."
998
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,966
"That cannot be my focus,
their poison can't be mine."
999
00:55:02,966 --> 00:55:07,262
And that is the message to everybody here,
especially our young people
1000
00:55:07,262 --> 00:55:11,016
who are starting to feel
the slings and arrows of otherness,
1001
00:55:11,016 --> 00:55:13,852
the limits that people
are trying to set in their world.
1002
00:55:13,852 --> 00:55:17,480
We have to practice
being kind to ourselves
1003
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,816
and greeting ourselves with gladness
1004
00:55:19,816 --> 00:55:24,404
and fueling our own light
and managing our own fears
1005
00:55:24,404 --> 00:55:28,783
because some people out there,
they will never see us.
1006
00:55:28,783 --> 00:55:31,202
It will never be enough,
1007
00:55:31,202 --> 00:55:36,166
and I contend with that by using empathy
1008
00:55:36,166 --> 00:55:37,834
and reminding myself
1009
00:55:37,834 --> 00:55:42,380
if somebody is that locked
into their smallness,
1010
00:55:42,380 --> 00:55:45,508
they are struggling
with self-doubt, you know?
1011
00:55:45,508 --> 00:55:48,803
They're struggling
with a level of not-enoughness,
1012
00:55:48,803 --> 00:55:51,014
and I've got to be able to see that
1013
00:55:51,014 --> 00:55:53,767
and find compassion for that,
1014
00:55:53,767 --> 00:55:56,478
and then keep living my life as real,
1015
00:55:56,478 --> 00:55:59,397
as vulnerably, as truthfully as I can,
1016
00:55:59,397 --> 00:56:01,608
and not let that bog me down.
1017
00:56:02,275 --> 00:56:05,111
Well, that's 'cause
you always goin' high, that's why.
1018
00:56:05,111 --> 00:56:07,197
Oh, yeah.
We'll talk about that in a minute.
1019
00:56:07,197 --> 00:56:10,408
- There you go again.
- There you go, going high.
1020
00:56:10,408 --> 00:56:14,579
Okay. How does it feel now to be liberated
1021
00:56:14,579 --> 00:56:17,248
from the scrutiny and the judgment
1022
00:56:17,248 --> 00:56:19,334
in something as simple as
1023
00:56:19,334 --> 00:56:22,170
- what you choose to wear on your body?
- Yeah.
1024
00:56:22,170 --> 00:56:25,715
Because, remember when
Michelle and Barack and the family
1025
00:56:25,715 --> 00:56:29,302
went to the Grand Canyon,
and Michelle wore the shorts?
1026
00:56:29,302 --> 00:56:32,972
You... They tried to turn that
into the biggest scandal.
1027
00:56:32,972 --> 00:56:36,434
And I was thinking the other day
when I saw you in Atlanta
1028
00:56:36,434 --> 00:56:37,936
in some leather pants...
1029
00:56:40,355 --> 00:56:44,692
I said, "Mitch McConnell would call
a senate hearing."
1030
00:56:45,485 --> 00:56:46,486
That's right.
1031
00:56:46,903 --> 00:56:51,491
If he saw you
in those black leather pants...
1032
00:56:54,536 --> 00:56:57,497
...there would be a special session
to discuss...
1033
00:56:57,497 --> 00:56:59,582
"What is she trying to say
with those pants?"
1034
00:56:59,582 --> 00:57:03,378
- ..."What is she trying to say?"
-"What devilment is she plotting?"
1035
00:57:04,170 --> 00:57:05,213
"A revolution."
1036
00:57:05,213 --> 00:57:10,510
Can we talk about
your evolving fab, funky...
1037
00:57:10,510 --> 00:57:13,012
What is happening with all this fly--
1038
00:57:13,012 --> 00:57:15,849
- You know, I think--
- What is happening?
1039
00:57:15,849 --> 00:57:20,186
Oprah, I think we...
but we can relate to like '50s, '60s.
1040
00:57:20,186 --> 00:57:23,064
Plus, when you have lived long enough
1041
00:57:23,064 --> 00:57:27,152
not to care what anybody else thinks,
I mean...
1042
00:57:28,111 --> 00:57:33,491
you know, it's just evolution
and it's just growing up
1043
00:57:33,491 --> 00:57:38,329
and just realizing,
"Let me just live my life, you know,
1044
00:57:38,329 --> 00:57:41,666
let me embrace who I am,"
1045
00:57:41,666 --> 00:57:45,503
and, you know, that's the thing
about tools and, you know,
1046
00:57:45,503 --> 00:57:48,381
what I try to caution young people
who feel like,
1047
00:57:48,381 --> 00:57:51,050
"I don't think that way.
I haven't figured that out."
1048
00:57:51,050 --> 00:57:53,887
The first thing I say in that book
to young people reading it
1049
00:57:53,887 --> 00:57:56,306
is be patient with yourself.
1050
00:57:56,306 --> 00:58:00,143
You know, it takes a lifetime
to find your voice.
1051
00:58:00,143 --> 00:58:03,021
It is a process. It is an evolution.
1052
00:58:03,897 --> 00:58:07,567
You will not be--
You will not be all that you will be
1053
00:58:07,567 --> 00:58:09,402
until you're our age
1054
00:58:09,402 --> 00:58:12,989
and you've lived a little bit
and you've had some bumps and you can--
1055
00:58:12,989 --> 00:58:14,991
- I love this book for young people.
- Yeah.
1056
00:58:14,991 --> 00:58:17,702
- I bought 24 copies.
- Excellent.
1057
00:58:17,702 --> 00:58:18,703
Yes.
1058
00:58:19,496 --> 00:58:22,248
I paid myself.
I didn't ask for naa free.
1059
00:58:23,291 --> 00:58:25,335
- I bought 24--
- You sure didn't.
1060
00:58:25,335 --> 00:58:27,629
I did not. I bought 24 copies.
1061
00:58:27,629 --> 00:58:29,839
You should double that number.
1062
00:58:31,549 --> 00:58:32,800
For the...
1063
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,345
See? Oprah's like never satisfied.
1064
00:58:35,345 --> 00:58:37,055
I sent... I sent...
1065
00:58:37,055 --> 00:58:39,891
- I sent them all to my girls.
- Yeah.
1066
00:58:39,891 --> 00:58:43,186
And what I did was
I underlined different part,
1067
00:58:43,186 --> 00:58:46,022
like page 68, page 157...
1068
00:58:46,022 --> 00:58:48,316
-"This is for you!"
-"This is for you!"
1069
00:58:49,359 --> 00:58:53,863
And then I wrote in the beginning,
"Love, from Mama O and Michelle."
1070
00:58:53,863 --> 00:58:55,573
- Yes, I'm glad you did.
- Yes.
1071
00:58:55,573 --> 00:58:58,117
- You know I love your girls, so yeah.
- Yeah.
1072
00:58:58,117 --> 00:59:01,079
So I think that this is a valuable tool...
1073
00:59:01,829 --> 00:59:03,831
Available wherever fine books are sold.
1074
00:59:03,831 --> 00:59:08,503
I think it's a valuable tool
for young people, especially,
1075
00:59:08,503 --> 00:59:10,672
- not to mention a great gift.
- Yeah.
1076
00:59:10,672 --> 00:59:14,592
And I hope it's the beginning
of a lot of conversations
1077
00:59:14,592 --> 00:59:17,762
because this book is me sharing my tools.
1078
00:59:17,762 --> 00:59:21,516
This is what's worked, didn't work for me,
but we all have them,
1079
00:59:21,516 --> 00:59:24,978
and we need to be vulnerable
with each other, you know?
1080
00:59:24,978 --> 00:59:27,981
I mean, you think of all the things
that we don't talk about?
1081
00:59:27,981 --> 00:59:30,608
Yes. Yes, like the Big M?
1082
00:59:30,608 --> 00:59:31,776
- Like the Big M?
- Yes.
1083
00:59:31,776 --> 00:59:33,945
- I wonder--
- Young women are like, "What's that?"
1084
00:59:33,945 --> 00:59:37,365
How is the Big M?
How is menopause treating ya?
1085
00:59:37,365 --> 00:59:40,702
You know, it's going all right.
It's going all right.
1086
00:59:40,702 --> 00:59:42,620
I mean, I think I'm doing okay.
1087
00:59:42,620 --> 00:59:44,706
I think you're looking good!
1088
00:59:44,706 --> 00:59:47,000
But it's a trip.
1089
00:59:48,543 --> 00:59:54,257
You know... you know, it happened to me
around 52, 53,
1090
00:59:54,257 --> 00:59:57,802
and I thought I was dying.
1091
00:59:59,220 --> 01:00:02,223
I really did, because I did not--
Did you have hot flashes?
1092
01:00:02,223 --> 01:00:05,268
I was able to--
I started hormone therapy. Yeah.
1093
01:00:05,268 --> 01:00:07,312
Okay. So I didn't know nothing about that.
1094
01:00:07,312 --> 01:00:09,063
See? And that's what we didn't know
1095
01:00:09,063 --> 01:00:10,940
- because the studies--
- People don't talk about it.
1096
01:00:10,940 --> 01:00:14,736
And here's the thing.
People don't research us as women.
1097
01:00:14,736 --> 01:00:18,573
Why don't we know
all about this, you know?
1098
01:00:18,573 --> 01:00:21,451
And then they want to tell us
what to do with our wombs
1099
01:00:21,451 --> 01:00:23,119
and you don't even-- Stay--
1100
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:25,955
This is what I tell the men in my life.
1101
01:00:26,706 --> 01:00:30,668
"You don't know me, you know,
so you should not comment on me."
1102
01:00:30,668 --> 01:00:34,255
"You shouldn't have opinion about me,
the way my hair looks,
1103
01:00:34,255 --> 01:00:38,968
what happens inside my body,
just stay out of it."
1104
01:00:42,055 --> 01:00:44,724
- Stay out of it.
- I love that. I love that.
1105
01:00:44,724 --> 01:00:48,728
So, you-- Yes, I use hormone therapy also,
1106
01:00:48,728 --> 01:00:51,397
but I didn't know about it
in the beginning.
1107
01:00:51,397 --> 01:00:54,025
So I didn't have hot flashes, I only had--
1108
01:00:54,025 --> 01:00:57,362
When I asked my mother about it,
she was like, "I don't remember."
1109
01:00:57,362 --> 01:00:59,113
My mother says the same thing.
1110
01:00:59,113 --> 01:01:00,740
-"I don't remember."
-"I don't remember."
1111
01:01:00,740 --> 01:01:04,202
It's like, "Ma, you don't
remember anything. What good are you?"
1112
01:01:04,202 --> 01:01:06,621
And so I was having these--
I never had a hot flash,
1113
01:01:06,621 --> 01:01:09,707
- but I had terrible heart palpitations.
- Oh, yeah.
1114
01:01:09,707 --> 01:01:13,836
I went from doctor to doctor to doctor,
and nobody ever said,
1115
01:01:13,836 --> 01:01:16,297
"Oh, you know what?
This could probably be--"
1116
01:01:16,297 --> 01:01:20,093
That's because no one
is taking the time to focus on this issue.
1117
01:01:20,093 --> 01:01:22,804
I think our generation
is going to change that...
1118
01:01:22,804 --> 01:01:25,223
- That's right. Absolutely.
- ...because we don't want our girls
1119
01:01:25,223 --> 01:01:27,558
to go through that.
So we are going to talk about it.
1120
01:01:27,558 --> 01:01:31,938
So Maya Angelou used to say to me,
"Baby, the fifties are everything
1121
01:01:31,938 --> 01:01:34,023
- you've been meaning to be."
- Oh, yes.
1122
01:01:34,023 --> 01:01:35,525
"The fifties are everything
1123
01:01:35,525 --> 01:01:37,151
- you've been meaning to be."
- It is amazing!
1124
01:01:37,151 --> 01:01:38,444
Do you feel that?
1125
01:01:38,444 --> 01:01:42,532
This is the best time
I feel most clearly me.
1126
01:01:42,532 --> 01:01:46,911
And that's what--
This is where I feel the wisest, right?
1127
01:01:46,911 --> 01:01:50,832
And I think, you know, again,
it's like, "This is social media."
1128
01:01:50,832 --> 01:01:54,669
It's like everybody--
We like to listen to young people
1129
01:01:54,669 --> 01:01:57,380
'cause we think
there's some value in youth.
1130
01:01:57,380 --> 01:01:58,965
Y'all don't know nothing.
1131
01:02:01,008 --> 01:02:04,303
You know, it's like,
if I want to hear about mothering,
1132
01:02:04,303 --> 01:02:08,266
I want to hear it from somebody
who's finished it, you know?
1133
01:02:08,266 --> 01:02:11,310
I want to see how you--
yours has turned out
1134
01:02:11,310 --> 01:02:16,482
before I decide
whether I take your advice.
1135
01:02:17,150 --> 01:02:20,319
Like, so I'd talk to my mother
about mothering,
1136
01:02:20,319 --> 01:02:22,488
I'm not talking to, you know,
1137
01:02:22,488 --> 01:02:25,616
somebody on the 'Gram or whatever.
1138
01:02:25,616 --> 01:02:28,369
Who's now raising kids.
1139
01:02:28,369 --> 01:02:31,914
But that's the thing
about women and wisdom.
1140
01:02:31,914 --> 01:02:36,878
You know? We get older and society
sort of puts us out to pasture.
1141
01:02:36,878 --> 01:02:42,467
Men get older and they are distinguished,
their gray hairs are, "Oh, sexy."
1142
01:02:42,467 --> 01:02:45,636
We're supposed to look like we did
when we were 20, you know?
1143
01:02:45,636 --> 01:02:47,972
Or we're failing, right?
1144
01:02:47,972 --> 01:02:49,515
We are our wisest.
1145
01:02:49,515 --> 01:02:53,770
There is so much wisdom
in women our age and older.
1146
01:02:53,770 --> 01:02:59,192
And all I'm saying to young women
is make your kitchen table broad.
1147
01:02:59,192 --> 01:03:02,570
Make sure that it's not just
a bunch of people your age.
1148
01:03:02,570 --> 01:03:04,155
And I do the same thing.
1149
01:03:04,155 --> 01:03:07,909
I have young people
at my kitchen table, but I have elders.
1150
01:03:07,909 --> 01:03:12,830
There is so much we can learn about
just being a woman, being human.
1151
01:03:12,830 --> 01:03:16,834
But we have to be open to the fact
that women know a lot.
1152
01:03:16,834 --> 01:03:18,795
And we have to be open to that.
1153
01:03:18,795 --> 01:03:21,047
It's like it takes us this long
1154
01:03:21,047 --> 01:03:25,426
to be able to look over
all of our successes and claim victory.
1155
01:03:25,426 --> 01:03:28,179
Men claim at-- They're 20.
It's like, "I'm the man,"
1156
01:03:28,179 --> 01:03:31,265
and it's like,
"You don't know anything either."
1157
01:03:31,265 --> 01:03:35,603
But we have to have raised kids,
we have to have 50 million successes,
1158
01:03:35,603 --> 01:03:37,563
and just now, I can look over and go,
1159
01:03:37,563 --> 01:03:41,442
"I do know something.
I was right. I am strategic."
1160
01:03:41,442 --> 01:03:43,528
"I was-- I'm good at this."
1161
01:03:43,528 --> 01:03:46,823
We don't give ourselves that credit
as women until now.
1162
01:03:46,823 --> 01:03:49,325
Yes. And you help us do that through this.
1163
01:03:49,325 --> 01:03:52,829
But we all have it.
We all have it in us, so...
1164
01:03:52,829 --> 01:03:57,458
As a parent, you often don't know
when your lessons are getting through.
1165
01:03:57,458 --> 01:03:59,669
- Oh, yes.
- Right?
1166
01:03:59,669 --> 01:04:02,964
And then you tell the story
in The Light We Carry
1167
01:04:02,964 --> 01:04:06,050
about a time you and Barack
went to visit the girls.
1168
01:04:06,050 --> 01:04:09,595
- Yes.
- And they were in their new apartment.
1169
01:04:09,595 --> 01:04:12,223
And there was
an a-ha moment with a coaster.
1170
01:04:12,223 --> 01:04:14,058
- Tell us about that moment.
- Oh, yeah.
1171
01:04:14,058 --> 01:04:16,310
They invited us over
for cocktails before dinner.
1172
01:04:16,310 --> 01:04:18,604
And so, this is the first time
we're seeing--
1173
01:04:18,604 --> 01:04:21,691
They lived together,
and they were adulting.
1174
01:04:21,691 --> 01:04:23,442
And it was so cool to watch.
1175
01:04:23,442 --> 01:04:28,030
They had furniture and, you know,
they tried to make us some weak martinis.
1176
01:04:28,030 --> 01:04:30,199
- You know.
1177
01:04:30,199 --> 01:04:32,326
They had a charcuterie board,
1178
01:04:32,326 --> 01:04:34,745
even though Malia complained
about the price of cheese.
1179
01:04:34,745 --> 01:04:37,290
She's like, "I didn't know
it was this expensive."
1180
01:04:37,290 --> 01:04:41,085
I was like, "Oh, now, you counting money
when it's your cheese. You--"
1181
01:04:41,085 --> 01:04:43,713
She would sidle up
to our charcuterie board,
1182
01:04:43,713 --> 01:04:45,965
eat everything on it
before the guests got there.
1183
01:04:45,965 --> 01:04:50,219
I was like, "Have some respect
for the cost of charcuterie."
1184
01:04:52,179 --> 01:04:54,140
So we're having our little drinks
1185
01:04:54,140 --> 01:04:56,976
and we go to put our drinks
on the table, and whoop!
1186
01:04:56,976 --> 01:04:58,853
They whip out some coasters.
1187
01:04:59,687 --> 01:05:05,109
I was like, "Oh, now you care
about your cheap li'l table."
1188
01:05:05,109 --> 01:05:08,654
I was like, "I didn't see you
whipping out coasters in the White House
1189
01:05:08,654 --> 01:05:13,993
when that-- on that 100-year-old,
you know, side table,"
1190
01:05:13,993 --> 01:05:15,202
you know?
1191
01:05:15,620 --> 01:05:19,248
But it is good to see
that they were listening.
1192
01:05:19,874 --> 01:05:22,126
And watching them in the background
1193
01:05:22,126 --> 01:05:25,046
discover dust, you know?
1194
01:05:25,046 --> 01:05:27,632
I mean, Malia's been fascinated by it.
1195
01:05:27,632 --> 01:05:32,261
It's like, "You know, I dust,
and then days later, it's back."
1196
01:05:33,346 --> 01:05:35,640
- I'm like, "Yeah."
It works that way.
1197
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,643
"That's why you gotta
keep dusting," you know?
1198
01:05:40,436 --> 01:05:44,315
I think that the dream
that you express for your daughters
1199
01:05:44,315 --> 01:05:46,817
was so poignant in The Light We Carry.
1200
01:05:46,817 --> 01:05:50,738
It's kind of a manifesto, I think,
for the 21st century woman.
1201
01:05:50,738 --> 01:05:54,367
You say, "I don't want them
to see marriage
1202
01:05:54,367 --> 01:05:58,621
as some kind of trophy
to be hunted and won."
1203
01:05:58,621 --> 01:05:59,622
Yeah.
1204
01:06:00,706 --> 01:06:04,627
So can you tell us more about
what that dream is for your--
1205
01:06:04,627 --> 01:06:07,838
Yeah. I want my girls to make choices
1206
01:06:07,838 --> 01:06:12,927
based on who they are
and not who society says they should be.
1207
01:06:12,927 --> 01:06:18,766
Because we define what it means
to be a happy human so narrowly.
1208
01:06:18,766 --> 01:06:22,478
And it doesn't fit everyone,
and I think a lot of depression
1209
01:06:22,478 --> 01:06:27,775
and anxiety on both sides,
young men and women, older men and women,
1210
01:06:27,775 --> 01:06:30,820
have to do with the fact
that we're trying to cram our lives
1211
01:06:30,820 --> 01:06:32,530
into these narrow definitions.
1212
01:06:32,530 --> 01:06:36,450
You can only be happy
if you find the love of your life
1213
01:06:36,450 --> 01:06:38,536
and get married, right?
1214
01:06:38,536 --> 01:06:40,913
Some people aren't built for marriage.
1215
01:06:40,913 --> 01:06:44,500
Some people may never find
a partner that they love,
1216
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:46,919
but there's happiness on the other side.
1217
01:06:46,919 --> 01:06:48,879
I mean, I know you've experienced this.
1218
01:06:48,879 --> 01:06:51,257
It's like how many people
have come up and go,
1219
01:06:51,257 --> 01:06:53,050
-"Are you going to have a baby?"
- Yes.
1220
01:06:53,050 --> 01:06:56,679
You know, it's like you got
a number one TV show,
1221
01:06:56,679 --> 01:06:59,432
you're a kabillionaire,
and it's almost like...
1222
01:06:59,432 --> 01:07:00,808
people are still like,
1223
01:07:00,808 --> 01:07:04,353
"Oh, but you're not a mother.
I'm so sorry for you."
1224
01:07:04,353 --> 01:07:06,355
- Yes.
- It's like, "No, Oprah's happy."
1225
01:07:06,355 --> 01:07:08,566
- Very.
-"I've seen her."
1226
01:07:08,566 --> 01:07:11,861
-"She real happy." You know?
- I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right.
1227
01:07:11,861 --> 01:07:13,404
- Yeah.
1228
01:07:13,404 --> 01:07:17,408
But I want my girls and all young girls
1229
01:07:17,408 --> 01:07:20,786
to have the option
of taking the time to discover
1230
01:07:20,786 --> 01:07:23,706
who they are
and deciding who they want to be.
1231
01:07:23,706 --> 01:07:26,375
I think this is true
for men too. Young boys.
1232
01:07:26,375 --> 01:07:30,379
There's such a narrow definition
of what it means to be a man. You know?
1233
01:07:30,379 --> 01:07:34,633
What if you don't want to run a company?
What if you are not naturally a leader?
1234
01:07:34,633 --> 01:07:37,136
What if you love working with your hands?
1235
01:07:37,136 --> 01:07:42,058
What if you want to stay home
and be a stay-at-home dad?
1236
01:07:42,058 --> 01:07:44,351
Imagine all the CEOs out there--
1237
01:07:44,351 --> 01:07:47,563
This is why I think
a lot of men are unhappy and angry
1238
01:07:47,563 --> 01:07:51,525
and they're trying to get power
because they're not living their truth.
1239
01:07:51,525 --> 01:07:54,361
- I agree.
- They're living some version
1240
01:07:54,361 --> 01:07:56,489
of what they think a man should be.
1241
01:07:56,489 --> 01:07:58,991
- Of what society says you should be. Yes.
- Exactly.
1242
01:07:58,991 --> 01:08:03,079
So, I want us as parents
to let our kids show us who they are
1243
01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:06,082
before we start imposing these,
1244
01:08:06,082 --> 01:08:08,959
- you know, our goals on to them...
- Yeah.
1245
01:08:08,959 --> 01:08:10,961
...so that they can find some happiness.
1246
01:08:10,961 --> 01:08:13,881
I love how you end that piece
1247
01:08:13,881 --> 01:08:16,675
where you're talking
about Malia and Sasha.
1248
01:08:16,675 --> 01:08:19,553
You ended the whole section saying,
1249
01:08:19,553 --> 01:08:22,098
-"I hope they find home."
- Yes.
1250
01:08:22,098 --> 01:08:23,641
"I hope they find home."
1251
01:08:25,935 --> 01:08:29,897
You know, every time
there's a discussion about politics
1252
01:08:29,897 --> 01:08:33,025
and who should run for president,
your name comes up.
1253
01:08:33,025 --> 01:08:36,654
- So why you bring it up?
1254
01:08:37,988 --> 01:08:41,033
So why are you bringing it up now, Oprah?
What you trying to do?
1255
01:08:41,033 --> 01:08:44,537
This is why. I want you to--
So I was at a Sunday brunch
1256
01:08:44,537 --> 01:08:48,165
and some people were talking about it,
and they were like,
1257
01:08:48,165 --> 01:08:50,459
"Well, perhaps maybe
she would consider it."
1258
01:08:50,459 --> 01:08:54,755
"Do you think she'll ever consider it?"
I say, "Guaranteed no."
1259
01:08:55,548 --> 01:09:00,010
So, can you tell the people
why you will never even consider it?
1260
01:09:00,010 --> 01:09:01,387
Running for president.
1261
01:09:01,387 --> 01:09:05,224
You know, first of all,
it was like I've never expressed
1262
01:09:05,224 --> 01:09:07,101
any interest in politics.
1263
01:09:07,101 --> 01:09:12,398
Ever. I mean, I agreed
to support my husband.
1264
01:09:12,398 --> 01:09:16,068
You know, he wanted to do it
and he's been-- was great at it.
1265
01:09:16,068 --> 01:09:19,405
But at no point have I ever like, said,
1266
01:09:19,405 --> 01:09:21,657
"I think I want to run."
1267
01:09:21,657 --> 01:09:24,618
Ever. So I'm just wondering,
1268
01:09:24,618 --> 01:09:28,622
does what I want
have anything to do with anything?
1269
01:09:28,622 --> 01:09:32,042
- That's nice.
- Does who I choose to be, you know,
1270
01:09:32,042 --> 01:09:33,752
have anything to do with it?
1271
01:09:33,752 --> 01:09:35,671
Politics is hard, and it's--
1272
01:09:35,671 --> 01:09:37,631
And the people who get into it--
1273
01:09:37,631 --> 01:09:41,468
Just like marriage,
just like kids, you got to want it!
1274
01:09:41,468 --> 01:09:45,055
It's got to be in your soul
because it is so important.
1275
01:09:45,055 --> 01:09:47,558
It is not in my soul, you know.
1276
01:09:47,558 --> 01:09:49,768
Service is in my soul,
1277
01:09:49,768 --> 01:09:53,939
helping people is in my soul,
working with kids, that's my...
1278
01:09:54,773 --> 01:09:59,278
I will spend my lifetime
trying to make kids feel seen
1279
01:09:59,278 --> 01:10:00,863
and find their light.
1280
01:10:00,863 --> 01:10:02,406
That I will do.
1281
01:10:02,406 --> 01:10:04,867
- I don't have to hold office to do that.
- Yeah.
1282
01:10:04,867 --> 01:10:09,371
In fact, I think I'm actually
more effective outside of politics
1283
01:10:09,371 --> 01:10:12,374
because sadly,
politics has become so divided.
1284
01:10:12,374 --> 01:10:14,418
You know, the minute you declare a party,
1285
01:10:14,418 --> 01:10:17,963
you've alienated
the other half of the country, you know?
1286
01:10:17,963 --> 01:10:22,218
Now, maybe people who don't agree
with me politically
1287
01:10:22,218 --> 01:10:26,764
can still gain some tools
that can help them, you know?
1288
01:10:26,764 --> 01:10:30,809
Maybe I can help a kid
who's a republican, right?
1289
01:10:30,809 --> 01:10:36,106
Because maybe they'll listen to me.
I think sadly, politics has limited us.
1290
01:10:36,106 --> 01:10:38,692
Now, we have to work ourselves
out of that.
1291
01:10:38,692 --> 01:10:42,488
You know, we have to sort of
get ourselves together
1292
01:10:42,488 --> 01:10:46,450
in how we view one another
across party lines
1293
01:10:46,450 --> 01:10:48,661
because we are still one country.
1294
01:10:48,661 --> 01:10:52,206
You know, we have to be rooting
for each other all the time.
1295
01:10:52,206 --> 01:10:55,084
We can't afford to be split and conquered.
1296
01:10:55,084 --> 01:10:56,961
But that won't be me.
1297
01:10:56,961 --> 01:11:00,297
I will not be the one
politically doing that.
1298
01:11:00,297 --> 01:11:03,509
And I don't think you could wear
those black leather pants either.
1299
01:11:03,509 --> 01:11:06,553
I certainly can't! So there. That's that.
1300
01:11:07,471 --> 01:11:10,432
So, before reading The Light We Carry,
1301
01:11:10,432 --> 01:11:14,186
I was feeling, and I know so many of you
were feeling this too,
1302
01:11:14,186 --> 01:11:17,982
because we have all these conversations
about how bad things are
1303
01:11:17,982 --> 01:11:19,650
- when we're with our friends.
- Yeah.
1304
01:11:19,650 --> 01:11:25,656
And I think a lot of us were feeling like
you felt before you wrote it,
1305
01:11:25,656 --> 01:11:28,492
that there are so many massive problems,
1306
01:11:28,492 --> 01:11:31,078
there's so many things
that need to be overcome,
1307
01:11:31,078 --> 01:11:37,001
and it feels like there's a conspiracy
of craziness going on out here.
1308
01:11:37,001 --> 01:11:41,046
So how do we get back to trust?
1309
01:11:41,046 --> 01:11:42,006
Yeah.
1310
01:11:42,006 --> 01:11:45,968
Trusting our government,
trusting each other...
1311
01:11:45,968 --> 01:11:47,428
- Yeah.
- ...in a way
1312
01:11:47,428 --> 01:11:51,807
that doesn't make us feel
numbed and tired all the time.
1313
01:11:51,807 --> 01:11:55,853
Yeah. I think we can't underestimate
1314
01:11:55,853 --> 01:11:59,898
what quarantine did to exacerbate that
1315
01:11:59,898 --> 01:12:04,361
because we were isolated
from each other, physically.
1316
01:12:04,361 --> 01:12:07,072
And while, to some, that felt good.
1317
01:12:07,072 --> 01:12:09,700
It's like,
"Whew, I am so tired of people," right?
1318
01:12:11,243 --> 01:12:15,998
I think we need
to be with each other, you know.
1319
01:12:15,998 --> 01:12:17,041
We really do.
1320
01:12:17,041 --> 01:12:19,084
I think when we gather
1321
01:12:19,084 --> 01:12:24,506
and we mix our togetherness, you know,
1322
01:12:24,506 --> 01:12:27,217
we feel better, you know?
1323
01:12:27,217 --> 01:12:28,260
We feel better--
1324
01:12:28,260 --> 01:12:30,471
Don't you all feel better
just being here tonight?
1325
01:12:30,471 --> 01:12:34,600
- Don't you feel better? Tuesday night?
- And we haven't been able to do that.
1326
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:38,228
I always say it's harder to hate up close.
1327
01:12:38,228 --> 01:12:40,898
And we have been isolated from each other.
1328
01:12:40,898 --> 01:12:45,527
We're just hearing about each other
from the news and from our feeds.
1329
01:12:45,527 --> 01:12:48,364
And my experience with this country
1330
01:12:48,364 --> 01:12:52,451
is that it's a distortion of the truth
of who we are.
1331
01:12:52,451 --> 01:12:55,621
I have traveled all around this country,
1332
01:12:55,621 --> 01:12:58,415
in communities of all different races,
1333
01:12:58,415 --> 01:13:02,294
and socioeconomic backgrounds,
and political affiliations,
1334
01:13:02,294 --> 01:13:04,046
and people have...
1335
01:13:05,255 --> 01:13:08,884
across the board,
been kind and decent to me,
1336
01:13:08,884 --> 01:13:11,720
to my family, once they get to know us.
1337
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:16,767
They may not agree, but we are not
the people that we see on TV,
1338
01:13:16,767 --> 01:13:19,812
and I just want us to remember that.
1339
01:13:19,812 --> 01:13:22,940
That we should never fear each other.
1340
01:13:22,940 --> 01:13:28,195
Everyone-- There are the outliers
of people who are struggling deeply,
1341
01:13:28,195 --> 01:13:33,117
but the vast majority of people are like
Toot and Gramps, and Mom and Dad.
1342
01:13:33,117 --> 01:13:37,037
They are hardworking,
honest, decent people
1343
01:13:37,037 --> 01:13:39,248
who are not entitled,
1344
01:13:39,248 --> 01:13:42,000
who are grateful, who are proud Americans,
1345
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:44,962
who are willing to work hard,
who tell the truth.
1346
01:13:44,962 --> 01:13:47,840
That's who our country is, and...
1347
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:50,134
But we have to have leaders...
1348
01:13:51,218 --> 01:13:53,762
that reflect that back.
1349
01:13:54,471 --> 01:13:55,556
You know?
1350
01:13:56,390 --> 01:14:00,144
It is dangerous when our leadership
says something different.
1351
01:14:01,103 --> 01:14:03,147
I love the beginning of the book.
1352
01:14:03,147 --> 01:14:06,483
You have this poem
by Alberto Ríos that says,
1353
01:14:06,483 --> 01:14:09,862
"If someone in your family tree
was trouble,
1354
01:14:09,862 --> 01:14:11,822
a hundred were not."
1355
01:14:11,822 --> 01:14:14,450
"The bad do not win."
1356
01:14:14,450 --> 01:14:16,201
"Not finally."
1357
01:14:16,201 --> 01:14:18,745
"No matter how loud they are."
1358
01:14:18,745 --> 01:14:24,042
"We simply would not be here
if that were so."
1359
01:14:24,042 --> 01:14:26,086
It's simple truth.
1360
01:14:26,086 --> 01:14:30,424
So that brings us to the phrase
that has become synonymous with your name,
1361
01:14:30,424 --> 01:14:35,137
"When they go low, we go high."
1362
01:14:35,762 --> 01:14:36,847
"We go high."
1363
01:14:36,847 --> 01:14:39,308
And you say that going high
1364
01:14:39,308 --> 01:14:42,728
usually involves taking a pause
1365
01:14:42,728 --> 01:14:45,314
before you react to anything. Correct?
1366
01:14:45,314 --> 01:14:46,815
- Absolutely.
- Okay.
1367
01:14:46,815 --> 01:14:51,195
So, what has happened recently
in your life or in the country
1368
01:14:51,195 --> 01:14:55,574
that you had to step back and say,
"Let me pause and try to get to high"?
1369
01:14:57,618 --> 01:15:00,245
There's plenty in the world
that makes me mad, you know.
1370
01:15:00,245 --> 01:15:02,206
- Wait a minute. Can I just ask you this?
- Yes.
1371
01:15:02,206 --> 01:15:04,041
Do you go high immediately?
1372
01:15:04,041 --> 01:15:08,212
- Oh, no, no, no. No.
- Okay.
1373
01:15:08,212 --> 01:15:10,672
No, that's what the kitchen table
is for, remember?
1374
01:15:10,672 --> 01:15:14,218
I go sit at my kitchen table and we have
a "go low session."
1375
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:16,720
- You know?
1376
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:21,099
We just go low. We are all
picking ourselves off the floor.
1377
01:15:21,099 --> 01:15:24,311
- Okay.
- I used to do this thing with my staff
1378
01:15:24,311 --> 01:15:26,772
in the White House
where before I would give a speech
1379
01:15:26,772 --> 01:15:28,440
or do an interview,
1380
01:15:28,440 --> 01:15:30,984
we'd mock answer the questions
1381
01:15:30,984 --> 01:15:34,613
because they knew
I needed to get the low out, you know.
1382
01:15:34,613 --> 01:15:37,324
- So I would have--
- Don't we feel better knowing that?
1383
01:15:37,324 --> 01:15:40,327
Oh, yeah. I would just play out
what I would call
1384
01:15:40,327 --> 01:15:44,373
"Presidential ending statements"
that I could make.
1385
01:15:44,373 --> 01:15:46,041
I'd be like, "You know what?"
1386
01:15:46,041 --> 01:15:49,878
"We could just go home
if I said 'burr,'" right?
1387
01:15:49,878 --> 01:15:52,089
And my team would look and go,
1388
01:15:52,089 --> 01:15:55,801
"Yeah, don't do that." You know?
1389
01:15:55,801 --> 01:15:57,302
But sometimes, you know...
1390
01:15:57,302 --> 01:16:00,973
so going high doesn't mean
you don't feel the rage, right?
1391
01:16:00,973 --> 01:16:04,434
It doesn't mean
that you're not supposed to feel.
1392
01:16:05,060 --> 01:16:08,105
It doesn't mean that you are complacent
1393
01:16:08,105 --> 01:16:11,775
in unfairness and inequality.
1394
01:16:11,775 --> 01:16:14,319
It doesn't mean you don't do the work.
1395
01:16:14,319 --> 01:16:17,322
It's just the choice of your approach.
1396
01:16:18,532 --> 01:16:21,201
And going high is a choice.
1397
01:16:21,201 --> 01:16:24,913
It's a choice that I think is most mature.
1398
01:16:24,913 --> 01:16:27,749
It's a long-term choice.
1399
01:16:27,749 --> 01:16:32,045
And it's not you just wallowing
in the gut feeling
1400
01:16:32,045 --> 01:16:36,466
of what you feel that...
at that moment, that's self-indulgent.
1401
01:16:36,466 --> 01:16:39,469
And when you're a leader with a platform,
1402
01:16:39,469 --> 01:16:44,725
we can't afford
to indulge our innermost ugly, right?
1403
01:16:44,725 --> 01:16:49,187
We have a responsibility to go high
because we are living--
1404
01:16:49,187 --> 01:16:52,065
We've lived through leadership
that goes low
1405
01:16:52,065 --> 01:16:54,109
and no one feels good in that.
1406
01:16:54,109 --> 01:16:57,487
It doesn't lead to solutions.
It just doesn't work.
1407
01:16:57,487 --> 01:17:01,575
So I answer-- in the book,
by answering the question
1408
01:17:01,575 --> 01:17:03,702
that everybody has been asking me,
1409
01:17:03,702 --> 01:17:08,040
"Still go high, Michelle?
Now? Really? Really?"
1410
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:11,335
And my answer is, "Yes, absolutely."
1411
01:17:11,335 --> 01:17:14,713
"We always go high. We go high..."
1412
01:17:16,256 --> 01:17:17,799
"...but we do the work."
1413
01:17:18,425 --> 01:17:21,470
And that's what I want
young people to know,
1414
01:17:21,470 --> 01:17:23,930
that the light we carry is in all of us,
1415
01:17:23,930 --> 01:17:27,726
you know, we have to learn
how to build it up in ourselves first.
1416
01:17:27,726 --> 01:17:30,687
We can't look to other people
to build it up in us
1417
01:17:30,687 --> 01:17:32,814
because sometimes,
they don't have it in them.
1418
01:17:32,814 --> 01:17:36,068
And once we build it up,
we have to protect it, you know?
1419
01:17:36,068 --> 01:17:39,571
Protect it with a good kitchen table,
keeping people in,
1420
01:17:39,571 --> 01:17:43,784
but also letting people go
when they're not serving you for the best.
1421
01:17:43,784 --> 01:17:47,245
- When they're losing oxygen.
- When they're losing oxygen, you know.
1422
01:17:47,245 --> 01:17:50,248
You have to protect yourself
from the poison that's out there.
1423
01:17:50,248 --> 01:17:52,876
You've got to get out
of other people's mirrors, right?
1424
01:17:52,876 --> 01:17:56,880
And then once you've buttressed yourself
and you've got it together,
1425
01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:00,676
then it's our responsibility
to share that light.
1426
01:18:00,676 --> 01:18:02,678
That's the going high part.
1427
01:18:02,678 --> 01:18:04,805
So as you think about interacting,
1428
01:18:04,805 --> 01:18:09,101
speaking out, texting, using social media,
1429
01:18:09,101 --> 01:18:11,520
think about the light you carry.
1430
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:13,355
Lead with that light
1431
01:18:13,355 --> 01:18:17,776
because light begets light,
hope begets hope.
1432
01:18:17,776 --> 01:18:20,529
Going high begets more of it.
1433
01:18:20,529 --> 01:18:22,072
That's why we do it.
1434
01:18:22,739 --> 01:18:26,993
Thank you for reminding us
of the light we carry. Michelle Obama!
1435
01:18:28,036 --> 01:18:32,249
- Thank you, Oprah Winfrey!
- The YouTube Theater!
1436
01:18:32,249 --> 01:18:36,086
- Thank you, LA! Be good!
- Thank you, LA!
1437
01:18:56,064 --> 01:18:57,816
Good night, everybody!