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[interviewer] It would make perfect sense
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that sitting down here
today would be too much.
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What was it that recently changed?
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Yeah, I mean doing an
interview like this isn't easy
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and like I didn't wanna do it.
There's a lot there that like,
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do I wanna open that can of worms?
It's just hard to go through.
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There were a lot of families
in a similar situation,
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but it was very different in the sense
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that like my family was on television.
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[narrator] You've probably
heard of the Duggar family,
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Jim Bob, Michelle, and their
19 biological children.
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It became like a phenomenon really fast.
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[man] I want to name my child
Jim Bob. Jim Bob is the man.
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Everyone knew who the family was.
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[girls cheer]
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I actually decided to save
my first kiss for marriage.
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[creepy dramatic music throughout]
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[Amy] I asked him, my uncle, "You don't
believe in TV. Why are you on television?"
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And he responded with, "Well, this is a
ministry."
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- 19 children.
- 19 Kids and Counting.
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{\an8}The whole world knows them for their hit
show on TLC's 19 Kids and Counting.
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{\an8}[Chad] Everyone keeps focusing
on Duggar, Duggar, Duggar.
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{\an8}What they do not focus on is
how the Duggars came to be.
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[Jill] We were part of the Institute
of Basic Life Principles
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from as early as I can remember.
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[dramatic music continues]
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[Chad] The Duggars were the poster
children for the Institute.
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The leader of the Institute,
he believed Christian families
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should have as many children as possible
in order to have more chances
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{\an8}to influence the world for Jesus Christ.
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It's what we've trained our children,
their whole lives to do good in the world.
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[Josh Pease] The show
explodes and there are spinoffs
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and there are more families who are
getting their own reality TV series while
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at the same time that that's happening,
there's more and more evidence coming out
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of just the pandemic of abuse that is
happening everywhere this culture touches.
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{\an8}[Jim Bob] God has used this situation
with our oldest son, Josh,
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really to purify our family.
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Oh boy.
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It's hard to actually let
yourself speak the truth.
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[woman] These people in
this church who are supposed
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to be keeping me safe
are harboring pedophiles.
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In this community, the word
abuse doesn't really exist.
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Punish him with the rod severely.
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[woman] These are people who
are scarring their children
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and doing it in the name of God.
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[Josh Pease] They turned
every father into a cult leader
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and franchised, spiritual, physical,
emotional, psychological abuse.
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[woman] It's patriarchal,
it's authoritarian.
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Women don't have rights, children break.
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Instant obedience!
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That's the society that they're building.
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[Brooke] The IBLP
teachings aren't Christianity
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they're something entirely different.
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[Kristin] The homeschooling is kind of the
linchpin of this whole project.
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Instead of learning math,
you're learning slut shaming.
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It's infiltrating into
so many people's lives.
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[man] The goal was to funnel
Christian homeschoolers
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into positions of influence in government.
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- [creepy dramatic music continues]
- [soldiers hut]
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[woman] They're training
their kids to refashion America.
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{\an8}They operate as a cult in plain sight.
World domination was the goal.
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{\an8}And they believe that they're populating
the army that will help us get there.
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The Duggars' TV show was the
engine for letting this thrive.
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The shiny happy images is the sugar
and we're all high on it.
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[Josh Pease] There's so much more to that
story. There's so much more there.
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I didn't know what was
going on behind the scenes.
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[dramatic music crescendoing]
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They were just deceiving us all.
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[uplifting music]
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{\an8}[peaceful music]
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{\an8}I'm Derick Dillard, I'm
from Rogers, Arkansas.
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{\an8}I'm Jill Dillard and I'm
from Springdale, Arkansas.
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I'm the fourth born of 19
children in the Duggar family.
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- Hello, I'm Jill Duggar.
- [laughs]
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[Jill] I grew up on TV.
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{\an8}[Michelle] As she's
blossomed into womanhood,
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{\an8}I've seen the good qualities
of being very organized
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with this friendly, outgoing
personality that she has.
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[Jill] There's a story
that's gonna be told
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and I would rather be the one
telling it than the tabloids
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and anybody else who can
make up whatever they want.
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My parents are Jim Bob
and Michelle Duggar.
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{\an8}The oldest in our family
is Josh and then twins,
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{\an8}Jana and John, then me, I'm
Jill, and then Jessa, Jinger,
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{\an8}Joseph, Josiah, Joy, Jedediah, Jeremiah,
they're another set of twins.
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{\an8}Then Jason, James, Justin,
Jackson, Johannah, Jordyn.
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{\an8}Uh, wait, Justin, Jackson, Johannah,
Jennifer, Jordyn, Josie.
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{\an8}We were on the TV show
on TLC about our family.
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[dramatic music]
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{\an8}My parents met when my dad was out on
church visitation with a friend of his.
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His friend had mentioned, "Oh, there's
this girl, she's a cheerleader.
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She just became a Christian" and my dad's
like, "Let's go see her!"
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[Michelle] I was the baby of seven.
I had a happy childhood, I have to say,
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but I wasn't like Jim Bob.
I had dated, I had gotten mixed up
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in that boyfriend, girlfriend mess.
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[Jill] My dad invited her to his junior
senior banquet. She went and then.
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[Michelle] We talked for four hours
about the things of God.
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He opened up the word of God and explained
things to me that I had never heard.
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That night I got on my knees
and I gave my life to God.
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Somewhere in there, somewhere after that,
they got married. Pretty young actually.
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She was 17, he was 19.
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[Jim Bob] When we first
got married, we thought
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maybe we'd have one or
two or three children.
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Michelle went on birth control pills.
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She was on that up until
we had her first son, Josh,
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{\an8}and then she went back on the pill.
And then she ended up getting pregnant
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{\an8}while she was on the pill, and so the pill
actually caused a miscarriage.
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And so, at that point together
we just got on our knees
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before God and we asked His forgiveness
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and then right after that,
God blessed us with twins.
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And then another one and another one.
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[audience laughs]
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We gave that area of our life to God
and He just kept blessing us.
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[uplifting music]
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[Jill] My parents believed you should have
as many kids as you're capable of having
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until your body tells you to stop.
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My grandparents, neither
one on either side
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agreed with my parents
having a million kids.
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They were like, concerned
about my mom's health
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and like they would always
say, "Oh, is this your last one?"
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{\an8}[Jim Bob] Look at here, Grandpa,
this is your new grandbaby.
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This is Jordyn Grace Makiya Duggar, yeah.
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[Jill] My dad was working like three jobs.
He was working at a convenience store,
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and he had a car business,
and then he had a tow truck service.
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When I smell that diesel smell,
it reminds me of my dad with his sweet tea
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in his lap, riding like one or two of us
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in the truck next to him up
in the cab bouncing along.
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We would find all of
the Kids Eat Free places
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and like we'd just stay there for hours.
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My dad and mom have like
a little bit of pride
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where it's like, "Yeah, I think
we put him out of business."
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My dad grew up very poor.
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I think it made him feel like he probably
had to like grow up a little early
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and try and like protect his family.
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He had one sister and her name is Deanna.
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My brother and I always had a really close
relationship and we got along really well.
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We were brought up Missionary Baptist,
which is a conservative Baptist.
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We weren't allowed to go to dances.
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I was not allowed to
wear jeans for a while.
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Being a cheerleader, I
couldn't be, I wasn't allowed,
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so that's why I gave
my daughter, Amy, freedom
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of anything she wanted to do
that I was not allowed to do.
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{\an8}I'm Amy King, I was the crazy cousin.
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{\an8}So I'm Dillon King, I'm just a supportive
husband. That's all.
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[Amy laughs]
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{\an8}Everyone asks me if I'm gonna have this
many kids and that's a no. [laughs]
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Amy isn't the same way as
us, but we still like her. [laughing]
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[Amy] I am Jim Bob's niece.
I'm the oldest out of all the kids.
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I literally grew up on camera.
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It is a constructed regality,
you know you have to get the angles right.
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You walk through a door 20 times.
If they miss part of an interview,
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you have to look a certain way so it's
like, "Oh, it's the same day!"
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Like, it's reality but it's not. [laughs]
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The way that I was raised was rock and
roll, you know, this is life and enjoy it.
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Teenage years was Jonathan
Taylor Thomas posters on the wall,
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and NSYNC, and all the boy bands
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and I got to have pool
parties and there were boys.
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I had my first boyfriend
when I was in eighth grade.
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[interviewer] Have you
ever kissed a guy before?
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Yes, sorry, Aunt
Michelle and Uncle Jim Bob!
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But I loved my cousins
and I loved my family.
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I was over there every day.
This is how like country we are.
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During recess, I would literally
sneak into the cow pasture
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and go across the field to see them.
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But every aspect of their life
was completely different than mine.
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I didn't know what they
were being taught, you know,
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I just knew they were homeschooled.
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At a young age, you
realized really quickly
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that it was a very strict household.
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You know, you couldn't turn on the radio.
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They don't have TVs either.
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Yeah, or TV.
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Um, you know, my mom used to call them
when there'd be like a tornado warning.
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[meteorologist] God, we've
had numerous lightning strikes.
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[Amy] Because they had no way of knowing.
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You know, they had pantaloons
underneath their dresses
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- and those are considered...
- I don't even know what that is.
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[Amy] Pantaloons are white cotton pants,
T-shirt.
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[Dillon] Pants under a dress?
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But they're not just
pants, they're billowy.
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You can't wear shorts, you
can't show your shoulders.
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You just knew that... you just
didn't act like your actual self.
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{\an8}[Jim Bob] This is my niece Amy.
I love her very much.
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{\an8}I was there at her birth and it's amazing.
Now I'm here at your baptism.
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I know!
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And in the name of the
Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.
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[Amy] I admired my uncle.
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He was a father figure in a way to me.
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Back then it was just like, "Oh my
goodness, what? What can't this guy do?"
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I just remember thinking,
is he gonna be president?
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Like what? How far is this gonna go, you
know?
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{\an8}[crowd chatter]
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{\an8}[Jill] My dad heard about this pro-life
rally at the capitol.
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{\an8}[Jim Bob] When we got to the rally,
there was 2000 people
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{\an8}standing out in front of the capitol,
begging these representatives
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{\an8}and senators to ban
partial birth abortion.
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But that day, instead of going and voting
to pass that ban, they voted it down.
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God put in my heart that
day to get involved.
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[Jill] After this rally, we went and like
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toured the capitol and met
the governor, Mike Huckabee.
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For my dad, I think that started
opening his eyes to like,
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00:12:13,984 --> 00:12:16,403
"Hey, I should run for office
and maybe I can make a difference."
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00:12:16,486 --> 00:12:22,075
[Jim Bob] I was totally scared to death,
but we ran and the Lord put us in there.
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{\an8}[reporter] From Little Rock, Republican
State Representative Jim Bob Duggar.
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00:12:26,163 --> 00:12:29,416
[Jill] We moved to Little Rock for a few
months while they were in session,
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00:12:29,833 --> 00:12:31,918
which was obviously easier
to do when you homeschool.
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00:12:32,002 --> 00:12:35,380
We loved going to the Capitol.
You could take your school with you
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00:12:35,464 --> 00:12:39,593
and hang out in the balcony
and watch everything happen.
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00:12:39,926 --> 00:12:43,221
Josh, my big brother, loved
being there with my dad.
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00:12:43,722 --> 00:12:46,266
He got to go more than the rest of us
'cause he was the oldest.
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[Jim Bob] A lot of the other state
representatives named him Little Governor.
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00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:53,523
They thought he has a lot of
charisma even from a young age.
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00:12:54,399 --> 00:12:57,611
[Jill] Josh had like a little boys club
thing with some of his friends.
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00:12:57,694 --> 00:12:59,029
No rugrats allowed.
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[Jill] They named their club "Boycott",
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00:13:00,864 --> 00:13:04,201
Boy's Christian Outreach Team,
because the convenience store
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00:13:04,284 --> 00:13:09,080
at the end of our street, I
think they started selling,
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00:13:09,414 --> 00:13:12,042
it was either alcohol or
pornography or something like that
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00:13:12,125 --> 00:13:14,002
and they were like,
we're gonna boycott them.
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00:13:15,212 --> 00:13:18,131
My dad ran twice, was elected twice,
221
00:13:18,215 --> 00:13:21,259
served four years in the State
House of Representatives.
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00:13:21,343 --> 00:13:23,845
[dramatic music]
223
00:13:24,763 --> 00:13:30,435
[Kristin] In 2002, Jim Bob sets his sights
on the US Senate.
224
00:13:31,603 --> 00:13:35,190
{\an8}I'm Kristin Kobes Du Mez.
I'm a religious historian.
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00:13:35,524 --> 00:13:38,109
{\an8}For people like Jim Bob Duggar,
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00:13:38,193 --> 00:13:40,654
Christianity required action.
227
00:13:40,737 --> 00:13:44,824
So Jim Bob Duggar and his family
are at the right place at the right time.
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00:13:46,743 --> 00:13:50,121
[Jill] All the kids we went in to vote
with my parents all lined up.
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00:13:50,539 --> 00:13:52,916
All of us in our weird dresses and stuff.
230
00:13:53,667 --> 00:13:56,169
Somebody took a picture of us
and then it was printed in,
231
00:13:56,253 --> 00:13:57,837
I think the New York Times.
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00:13:57,921 --> 00:14:01,174
Jim Bob loses his bid for the Senate,
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00:14:02,133 --> 00:14:06,346
but it's that picture that's going
to change the direction of his life.
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00:14:08,014 --> 00:14:11,226
Parents Magazine sees that
and they run a profile
235
00:14:11,309 --> 00:14:16,898
on the Duggar family and that draws the
attention of Discovery Health.
236
00:14:16,982 --> 00:14:19,526
[Jill] Discovery Health
reached out to my dad.
237
00:14:19,609 --> 00:14:23,655
[narrator] This fall, explore medical
science on the cutting edge.
238
00:14:24,906 --> 00:14:26,658
[Jill] The network was
always very much focused
239
00:14:26,741 --> 00:14:29,828
on like surgeries and random stuff.
240
00:14:29,911 --> 00:14:33,582
[narrator] Will George's fantasy
of a full head of hair become a reality?
241
00:14:34,332 --> 00:14:35,458
[Jill] Like conjoined twins!
242
00:14:35,542 --> 00:14:38,128
[narrator] Above the waist,
they seem to function independently.
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00:14:38,670 --> 00:14:41,590
[Jill] They wanted to do a one hour
documentary about our family.
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00:14:41,923 --> 00:14:46,177
[Kristin] Jim Bob is presented
with a new opportunity
245
00:14:46,261 --> 00:14:50,765
which will give him the
power to present his values
246
00:14:50,849 --> 00:14:55,228
to the entire country and an opportunity
to make a lot of money.
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00:14:55,895 --> 00:14:58,857
[narrator] Ladies and
gentlemen, meet the Duggars.
248
00:15:00,066 --> 00:15:03,737
{\an8}I'm Jim Bob, and this is my wife Michelle.
Welcome to the Duggar home.
249
00:15:04,487 --> 00:15:06,781
{\an8}[narrator] If you lost
count, allow us to help.
250
00:15:07,282 --> 00:15:10,785
That was a total of 14
kids and two sets of twins.
251
00:15:11,494 --> 00:15:15,915
And the keen observer might have detected
that, yes, number 15 is on the way.
252
00:15:18,084 --> 00:15:22,422
That family of eight kids are the Holts.
Father, Jim has known Jim Bob for years.
253
00:15:22,505 --> 00:15:24,215
[Jim Holt] Jim Bob Duggar and I grew up
together.
254
00:15:24,299 --> 00:15:27,552
{\an8}We went to Shiloh Christian High School
together from seventh grade on.
255
00:15:27,636 --> 00:15:31,431
[Jill] And Jim Holt was one of my dad's
friends, one of his best friends.
256
00:15:32,682 --> 00:15:34,017
{\an8}- I'll let you go first.
- Ladies first.
257
00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:36,603
{\an8}No, don't do that to me.
Go ahead.
258
00:15:36,686 --> 00:15:38,313
{\an8}You want me to just talk
for you, like Jim and Bobye?
259
00:15:38,396 --> 00:15:39,689
- No.
- Okay, just me?
260
00:15:39,773 --> 00:15:40,607
Just you for you.
261
00:15:40,815 --> 00:15:43,068
- Jim Holt.
- And I'm Bobye.
262
00:15:43,151 --> 00:15:47,572
[Jim] We kind of met on a blind date.
I was 19 and...
263
00:15:48,239 --> 00:15:49,366
And I was 14.
264
00:15:49,449 --> 00:15:51,785
Well, we didn't know that.
I didn't know that at the time.
265
00:15:51,868 --> 00:15:55,705
She was, she was developed,
she looked mature.
266
00:15:56,206 --> 00:16:00,335
I was told by my cousin that she was 17 or
18, so I didn't know she was that young.
267
00:16:01,044 --> 00:16:03,129
We all marry young in Arkansas, you know.
268
00:16:03,922 --> 00:16:06,341
Did I tell you we're related? No, I'm just
kidding. [laughs] We're not.
269
00:16:06,424 --> 00:16:08,510
So anyway, Jim Bob said,
270
00:16:08,593 --> 00:16:10,970
{\an8}"We need some people there at the ice
skating rink at the Jones Center."
271
00:16:11,388 --> 00:16:13,473
And so we said, "Yeah,
we'll come there and skate."
272
00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:15,266
And then they come up
and just stuck the camera
273
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:18,061
in our face right off the bat and said,
"Well what do you think about this?"
274
00:16:18,144 --> 00:16:21,314
And I thought, "Well, what I do?"
And so, I did a little quick interview
275
00:16:21,398 --> 00:16:22,857
but wished it wasn't that time.
276
00:16:22,941 --> 00:16:26,236
- And you regret that?
- Yeah, I regret, I regret doing that.
277
00:16:26,319 --> 00:16:29,197
{\an8}♪ Jesus is my everything ♪
278
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,116
{\an8}[narrator] The two
families composed the core
279
00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:33,284
{\an8}of what amounts to a homegrown church.
280
00:16:34,828 --> 00:16:36,996
[Jim Holt] When we had our first
daughter, it was March 1st.
281
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,498
Well, Josh was born March 3rd.
282
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,127
[Bobye] Over the years, our relationship
with him had grown.
283
00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:46,965
{\an8}He was our first daughter's boyfriend
and we had known him since he was a baby.
284
00:16:49,384 --> 00:16:52,804
{\an8}My name is Joshua Duggar.
I may not be a household name,
285
00:16:52,887 --> 00:16:54,305
but you might have heard of my family.
286
00:16:55,473 --> 00:16:57,976
[all] We're the Duggars!
287
00:16:58,476 --> 00:17:02,230
[Jill] Discovery Health did their one hour
documentary and it did really well.
288
00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:07,110
Then they did a Christmas
special where we pretended
289
00:17:07,193 --> 00:17:09,070
to have Christmas and it
was like really weird.
290
00:17:09,696 --> 00:17:12,657
There was five of those specials.
291
00:17:12,741 --> 00:17:14,242
[narrator] The small
house where the Duggars
292
00:17:14,325 --> 00:17:18,496
currently live might seem crowded with
half the people with only two bathrooms.
293
00:17:18,705 --> 00:17:21,374
{\an8}When we moved from the smaller house,
294
00:17:21,458 --> 00:17:24,502
{\an8}which was like 2,400 square
feet into the bigger house,
295
00:17:24,586 --> 00:17:27,589
which was 7,000 square
feet, I was a teenager.
296
00:17:27,672 --> 00:17:32,260
There were a lot more bathrooms for all of
us, like nine bathrooms.
297
00:17:32,427 --> 00:17:33,762
{\an8}The kitchen is gorgeous.
298
00:17:33,845 --> 00:17:36,723
{\an8}[Josh Duggar] This is pretty much
my mom's dream come true.
299
00:17:36,806 --> 00:17:38,850
{\an8}[Jim Holt] Jim Bob needed
help getting his house done
300
00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:41,436
and the show made arrangements
to help him finish his house,
301
00:17:41,686 --> 00:17:44,147
which was $200 or several hundred thousand
dollars to get it finished.
302
00:17:44,856 --> 00:17:47,734
[Jill] And then 2008,
the reality show started.
303
00:17:47,817 --> 00:17:49,652
17 Kids and Counting,
16 Kids and Counting,
304
00:17:49,736 --> 00:17:52,405
something like that, I don't know
which kid we were on by then.
305
00:17:52,489 --> 00:17:53,698
One of 'em and counting!
306
00:17:54,282 --> 00:17:57,660
[Deanna] The popularity grew very large.
307
00:17:58,912 --> 00:18:03,166
[Amy] Everyone was mesmerized
by how you can have that many kids
308
00:18:03,583 --> 00:18:07,921
and have a clean house,
have everything color coded.
309
00:18:08,004 --> 00:18:10,632
The laundry itself is a story.
310
00:18:10,924 --> 00:18:13,593
[Josh Duggar] Poor Jessa,
she's in charge of the laundry
311
00:18:13,676 --> 00:18:16,888
with up to 10 loads a day.
Jessa needs some help.
312
00:18:16,971 --> 00:18:19,474
[Jessa] Who's available to help with the
laundry?
313
00:18:19,557 --> 00:18:22,769
[Amy] Grocery shopping was insane!
314
00:18:23,102 --> 00:18:28,149
It was just such a different way of living
and in a way it looked good.
315
00:18:28,233 --> 00:18:29,692
You know, there wasn't any drama.
316
00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:34,906
The kids were never allowed to argue.
The mom and dad were peaceful.
317
00:18:34,989 --> 00:18:39,118
They never had fights.
Everyone was like, who's this family?
318
00:18:39,202 --> 00:18:41,287
Who's this family?
Who is this family?
319
00:18:43,748 --> 00:18:46,543
[Josiah] Even though we're nine times the
size of an average family.
320
00:18:46,626 --> 00:18:48,545
[Joy Anna] We somehow make it all work.
321
00:18:51,548 --> 00:18:53,883
[Jill] We visited TLC headquarters,
322
00:18:54,551 --> 00:18:59,556
they had this picture of us on their wall
and it was this tandem bike
323
00:18:59,639 --> 00:19:03,351
that they had taken a picture and then
like photoshopped us all on one bike.
324
00:19:04,352 --> 00:19:06,396
We realized this is a big deal.
325
00:19:06,896 --> 00:19:10,191
Reality TV can sort of take a network
326
00:19:10,275 --> 00:19:13,820
that's not exactly a juggernaut
in terms of performance
327
00:19:13,903 --> 00:19:15,613
and really give it new life.
328
00:19:16,114 --> 00:19:19,909
Other networks like Bravo,
VH1, and MTV quickly
329
00:19:19,993 --> 00:19:23,371
learned these shows are
relatively cheap to produce
330
00:19:23,454 --> 00:19:26,457
and at the same time, lots and
lots of people consume them.
331
00:19:27,208 --> 00:19:31,379
{\an8}My name is Danielle Lindemann.
I am a professor of sociology.
332
00:19:31,462 --> 00:19:33,673
I am an evangelist for reality TV.
333
00:19:33,756 --> 00:19:36,259
{\an8}[Jill] This is the beginning
of Tater Tot Casserole.
334
00:19:36,342 --> 00:19:39,095
{\an8}19 Kids and Counting is kind
of the perfect reality show
335
00:19:39,178 --> 00:19:41,764
to teach us about why we like reality TV.
336
00:19:43,057 --> 00:19:45,393
{\an8}How do they make casserole
for all these people?
337
00:19:45,476 --> 00:19:48,271
{\an8}And if that's the biggest
problem in an entire episode,
338
00:19:48,354 --> 00:19:50,648
{\an8}there's something relaxing about that.
339
00:19:51,691 --> 00:19:56,404
Reality TV at its core, it's
incredibly conservative.
340
00:19:56,487 --> 00:19:59,198
Your sister's going to jail,
have a little compassion.
341
00:19:59,282 --> 00:20:02,243
[Danielle] The Kardashians
like, yes, they have sex tapes.
342
00:20:02,327 --> 00:20:05,663
Like yes, they're really
extreme in a lot of ways,
343
00:20:05,872 --> 00:20:08,041
but at the same time
they're super conventional
344
00:20:08,124 --> 00:20:10,543
in terms of how they're
performing their gender.
345
00:20:10,919 --> 00:20:12,420
I did not wake up like this.
346
00:20:12,503 --> 00:20:14,964
[Danielle] The Duggars
also are performing gender
347
00:20:15,048 --> 00:20:19,177
in this way where the women do the
cooking, women do the cleaning.
348
00:20:19,677 --> 00:20:21,095
[interviewer] Do you believe that you are
349
00:20:21,179 --> 00:20:25,058
reinforcing gender stereotypes by having
your girls do the cooking and cleaning?
350
00:20:25,141 --> 00:20:27,101
[Michelle] I think there
are some gender aspects you
351
00:20:27,185 --> 00:20:30,730
just can't get around and that's not bad.
I think that's a good thing.
352
00:20:30,813 --> 00:20:34,025
[Danielle] Some people are watching
because that can be very comforting.
353
00:20:35,526 --> 00:20:39,739
It's hearkening back to some
imagined pastime where things
354
00:20:39,822 --> 00:20:42,700
were simpler and roles
were more clearly defined.
355
00:20:43,159 --> 00:20:46,245
It's these kind of modern
day freak show programs
356
00:20:46,329 --> 00:20:52,877
that have built TLC, Discovery
into this empire that it is today.
357
00:20:52,961 --> 00:20:58,800
{\an8}And then the cash cows of the series were
really these wedding and birth episodes,
358
00:20:58,883 --> 00:21:02,136
{\an8}which were bringing in
monster, monster ratings.
359
00:21:02,220 --> 00:21:07,308
{\an8}But then as their popularity soars, as
ratings soar, they keep producing kids.
360
00:21:07,392 --> 00:21:11,270
So in season four, Michelle
gives birth to Josie.
361
00:21:11,354 --> 00:21:13,731
That was a big deal because
she was medically fragile.
362
00:21:13,815 --> 00:21:15,441
[interviewer] Were you
and Jim Bob surprised
363
00:21:15,525 --> 00:21:17,527
to find out that you were
pregnant with your 19th?
364
00:21:17,735 --> 00:21:21,155
[Michelle] I thought maybe it might not
happen.
365
00:21:21,614 --> 00:21:24,450
{\an8}[Jim Bob] Michelle's blood pressure
just kept going up and up and I knew it
366
00:21:24,534 --> 00:21:26,577
{\an8}would be life threatening
for her and the baby.
367
00:21:26,828 --> 00:21:28,955
{\an8}The situation is fixing to
change our lives...
368
00:21:33,292 --> 00:21:34,127
{\an8}...forever.
369
00:21:34,877 --> 00:21:40,675
{\an8}But you know, we praise God
when all the good things
370
00:21:40,758 --> 00:21:46,472
{\an8}are happening and we're gonna praise God
even through this difficult situation.
371
00:21:46,556 --> 00:21:50,101
{\an8}There she is, Michelle,
here she comes, oh my.
372
00:21:50,435 --> 00:21:54,439
{\an8}[Danielle] And so all of this kind of
feeds into this lifestyle.
373
00:21:54,522 --> 00:21:57,191
{\an8}The women, girls are
really like the engine,
374
00:21:57,275 --> 00:21:58,985
keeping it afloat, keeping it running.
375
00:22:01,070 --> 00:22:06,743
The Duggars were a big get for TLC.
They helped to put the network on the map.
376
00:22:07,452 --> 00:22:09,746
Some might say that TLC went
377
00:22:09,829 --> 00:22:13,124
from being The Learning
Channel to The Lurking Channel.
378
00:22:13,207 --> 00:22:16,002
We're not necessarily tuning in to learn.
379
00:22:16,085 --> 00:22:18,254
- [Big Ed screams]
- [Big Ed laughs]
380
00:22:18,379 --> 00:22:21,090
We're kind of tuning in
more for the train wreck.
381
00:22:21,549 --> 00:22:27,388
From these medical documentary shows
to these more contemporary freak shows.
382
00:22:28,056 --> 00:22:30,016
{\an8}[narrator] Julius' addiction to balloons
383
00:22:30,099 --> 00:22:33,269
{\an8}started when he was hospitalized
at just four years old.
384
00:22:33,728 --> 00:22:37,356
Discovery ultimately became
a multibillion dollar company
385
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,900
and now they own Warner Brothers.
386
00:22:38,983 --> 00:22:41,402
{\an8}We're positioned to get 200 million homes,
387
00:22:41,486 --> 00:22:45,281
{\an8}300 million homes 'cause we have all the
content that people love.
388
00:22:45,364 --> 00:22:48,659
{\an8}And so I think coming together,
we're not just better together.
389
00:22:48,743 --> 00:22:50,661
{\an8}I think we're the best
media company in the world.
390
00:22:52,747 --> 00:22:54,332
[Jennifer] The Duggars became a beacon
391
00:22:54,415 --> 00:22:57,627
for the evangelical community,
the fundamentalist community.
392
00:22:57,710 --> 00:23:00,338
And they finally saw
themselves represented on TV.
393
00:23:00,922 --> 00:23:04,258
{\an8}- We had had Christian programming.
- Father, we just praise you.
394
00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:05,760
But never like this.
395
00:23:05,843 --> 00:23:08,596
I brought my ticket
and I'm getting it signed by all of them.
396
00:23:08,679 --> 00:23:11,057
They have good core
values and we love them.
397
00:23:11,140 --> 00:23:13,768
{\an8}My name is Jennifer Sutphin
and I run a YouTube channel
398
00:23:13,851 --> 00:23:18,523
{\an8}called Fundie Fridays where I do my makeup
while discussing Christian fundamentalism.
399
00:23:19,732 --> 00:23:24,112
A fundie is kind of a derogative
term for a fundamentalist
400
00:23:24,195 --> 00:23:28,991
and it's the entire starting point
for the Fundie Snark community,
401
00:23:29,075 --> 00:23:32,036
which is the camp that I fall
into like, the Hate Watchers.
402
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:33,955
The show has devolved more and more
403
00:23:34,038 --> 00:23:36,541
into just straight propaganda
as time has gone on.
404
00:23:36,624 --> 00:23:39,418
But the Duggar Show is
just so insanely popular
405
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:44,340
that they doubled down and they started
making a bunch of other shows just like it
406
00:23:44,590 --> 00:23:47,009
about Christian fundamentalist families.
407
00:23:47,093 --> 00:23:51,722
♪ I've got the joy, joy,
joy, joy down in my heart ♪
408
00:23:52,265 --> 00:23:53,766
♪ Down in my heart ♪
409
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:55,059
We prayed about it and we thought,
410
00:23:55,143 --> 00:23:57,812
{\an8}well maybe this is an opportunity
to share with the world
411
00:23:57,895 --> 00:24:00,106
{\an8}that children are a blessing
and a gift from God.
412
00:24:00,189 --> 00:24:02,233
{\an8}And so we went back to 'em and we said,
413
00:24:02,316 --> 00:24:05,778
{\an8}"We will do this documentary with you as
long as you don't edit out our faith."
414
00:24:07,071 --> 00:24:10,992
[Jim Holt] It was March of 1980, I was 15.
Jim Bob was 14 at the time.
415
00:24:11,826 --> 00:24:14,412
My family was pretty dysfunctional.
I had a stepfather that was pretty rough.
416
00:24:14,495 --> 00:24:18,791
I had a few stepfathers that
were pretty rough on my mom
417
00:24:18,875 --> 00:24:20,293
and then pretty rough on me.
418
00:24:20,376 --> 00:24:22,044
Jim Bob said I was like the
brother he always wanted
419
00:24:22,128 --> 00:24:23,963
and his mother called me like a own son.
420
00:24:25,631 --> 00:24:28,259
{\an8}But Jim Bob had problems too.
421
00:24:28,426 --> 00:24:31,345
{\an8}[Jim Bob] I grew up in a situation where
sometimes we had electricity shut off.
422
00:24:31,429 --> 00:24:33,264
At one point we had our
house foreclosed on.
423
00:24:33,347 --> 00:24:35,725
My dad did not really have
a spiritual focus in life.
424
00:24:35,808 --> 00:24:37,435
It caused a lot of problems in our family.
425
00:24:38,227 --> 00:24:40,646
The church said, "We're
gonna go to this seminar.
426
00:24:40,730 --> 00:24:42,273
Y'all want to go?
We'll drive you."
427
00:24:42,648 --> 00:24:43,941
Jim Bob and I went together.
428
00:24:44,567 --> 00:24:46,777
That was our first time
seeing Bill Gothard.
429
00:24:49,655 --> 00:24:54,076
{\an8}[narrator] The Basic Seminar, a ministry
of the Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts.
430
00:24:54,243 --> 00:24:56,287
{\an8}As a high schooler, Bill
Gothard was concerned
431
00:24:56,370 --> 00:24:59,749
about the wrong decisions that many
of his classmates were making.
432
00:24:59,916 --> 00:25:02,877
The Basic Seminar offers
lasting answers for:
433
00:25:03,127 --> 00:25:07,381
resolving family conflicts,
overcoming feelings of inferiority,
434
00:25:07,798 --> 00:25:13,387
removing guilt and bitterness, conquering
destructive habits, establishing marriage...
435
00:25:13,512 --> 00:25:15,598
[drowning applause]
436
00:25:15,681 --> 00:25:21,062
Do you have a sig... a vision for what you
could do
437
00:25:21,437 --> 00:25:26,734
for the kingdom of the Lord
that is worth you giving your life for?
438
00:25:26,817 --> 00:25:30,154
If you have nothing worth dying for,
you have nothing worth living for.
439
00:25:30,238 --> 00:25:33,241
Here's another way of putting it.
When you get to the end of your life,
440
00:25:33,866 --> 00:25:35,743
what do you wanna be able
to look back and say,
441
00:25:35,826 --> 00:25:38,537
this is what God
accomplished through my life.
442
00:25:39,205 --> 00:25:42,875
{\an8}Our lives were falling apart around us.
Our kids were rebelling.
443
00:25:42,959 --> 00:25:46,128
{\an8}So this institute in Basic
Youth Conflict saved my life.
444
00:25:46,212 --> 00:25:48,130
{\an8}I really can honestly truly say that.
445
00:25:48,214 --> 00:25:52,009
{\an8}That first night that Mr.
Gothard spoke, I just wept.
446
00:25:52,843 --> 00:25:55,888
It was some of the most revolutionary
things I'd heard outta scripture.
447
00:25:55,972 --> 00:25:59,225
It was about, you know, how to love God
more and how to show Him you love more.
448
00:25:59,308 --> 00:26:00,268
'Cause that's the greatest commandment,
449
00:26:00,351 --> 00:26:01,894
is love God with everything
that you have, right?
450
00:26:01,978 --> 00:26:04,021
It was like one of the best things I'd
ever heard in my life.
451
00:26:04,105 --> 00:26:05,439
I thought it was fantastic.
452
00:26:05,523 --> 00:26:07,233
[audience applauds]
453
00:26:07,316 --> 00:26:09,402
{\an8}Most of the people in the
Institute thought Bill Gothard
454
00:26:09,485 --> 00:26:12,113
{\an8}hung the moon and Jim Bob was one
of 'em.
455
00:26:13,823 --> 00:26:17,326
We have for every one of you the answer
456
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:20,913
on how to conquer any habit you have.
457
00:26:20,997 --> 00:26:22,665
[audience applauds]
458
00:26:22,748 --> 00:26:26,460
[Brooke] Growing up, my family
attended Bill Gothard's seminar,
459
00:26:26,544 --> 00:26:28,879
the same program as the Duggars.
460
00:26:30,298 --> 00:26:32,008
{\an8}My name is Brooke Arnold.
461
00:26:32,341 --> 00:26:35,344
{\an8}I had really hesitated to talk
to you guys because to me,
462
00:26:35,428 --> 00:26:38,806
{\an8}the whole Bill Gothard thing
was this like hornets' nest
463
00:26:39,223 --> 00:26:41,684
that didn't need to be kicked right now.
[laughing]
464
00:26:41,767 --> 00:26:43,936
[interviewer] What do you know
about Institute in Basic Life Principles?
465
00:26:44,061 --> 00:26:46,439
[Brooke laughs]
466
00:26:46,522 --> 00:26:49,108
How long do you have? [laughs]
467
00:26:51,485 --> 00:26:53,237
{\an8}[narrator] Welcome to
the Children's Institute
468
00:26:53,321 --> 00:26:55,740
{\an8}of the Seminar and Basic Life Principles.
469
00:26:56,157 --> 00:26:58,409
{\an8}We learn about authority
and the importance
470
00:26:58,492 --> 00:27:02,079
of obeying the spoken as
well as the unspoken wishes
471
00:27:02,163 --> 00:27:04,290
of those who are responsible for us.
472
00:27:04,373 --> 00:27:06,417
[Brooke] To me, you
know, Bill Gothard came
473
00:27:06,667 --> 00:27:11,589
to loom over my life, almost
mythologically, and I just felt like there
474
00:27:11,672 --> 00:27:14,592
was something important
I needed to find out.
475
00:27:15,468 --> 00:27:18,220
I felt like the more that I
understood about Bill Gothard,
476
00:27:18,304 --> 00:27:20,097
the more I would understand myself.
477
00:27:21,349 --> 00:27:24,727
Bill Gothard, Senior was a minister.
478
00:27:24,894 --> 00:27:28,773
He was actually head of
the Gideons Association.
479
00:27:28,856 --> 00:27:32,735
The little Bible that you
find in every hotel room,
480
00:27:32,860 --> 00:27:34,945
that's there because of the Gideons.
481
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:40,034
So, Bill Gothard kind of comes
from this evangelical dynasty
482
00:27:40,284 --> 00:27:42,620
and he ended up going to Wheaton College,
483
00:27:42,703 --> 00:27:45,790
which is basically the
Harvard for fundamentalists.
484
00:27:47,124 --> 00:27:50,211
[Kristin] In 1961, Bill Gothard
485
00:27:50,586 --> 00:27:54,340
establishes these local
workshops on how to parent,
486
00:27:54,423 --> 00:27:58,761
how to raise your kids, how to discipline.
They teach the prosperity gospel.
487
00:27:59,136 --> 00:28:01,514
Obey God, and God's going to bless you.
488
00:28:01,889 --> 00:28:04,517
People were getting
this and then taking it
489
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,353
into their communities,
taking it into their churches.
490
00:28:07,770 --> 00:28:10,856
{\an8}[Brooke] In the late '60s,
people were really scared at that time,
491
00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:15,653
{\an8}you know, there was huge social, cultural,
political, economic shifts happening.
492
00:28:15,986 --> 00:28:17,822
[Kristin] You have the
civil rights movement,
493
00:28:18,072 --> 00:28:22,368
you have the women's rights movement,
you had student protestors.
494
00:28:22,827 --> 00:28:25,704
People were wondering, you know,
is it Christian to have long hair?
495
00:28:25,788 --> 00:28:29,375
Is it Christian to listen to rock and
roll? Is it Christian to watch television?
496
00:28:29,834 --> 00:28:32,169
Bill Gothard says, you
don't have to be worried
497
00:28:32,420 --> 00:28:33,963
about what the right thing to do is
498
00:28:34,046 --> 00:28:38,008
because I know the right
thing to do about everything.
499
00:28:38,384 --> 00:28:42,263
The simplicity of his
program was really appealing
500
00:28:42,346 --> 00:28:46,392
to people who were kind of living
in these moments of extreme upheaval.
501
00:28:46,517 --> 00:28:49,228
[majestic music]
502
00:28:50,771 --> 00:28:55,359
IBLP is the abbreviation for the Institute
in Basic Life Principles.
503
00:28:55,443 --> 00:28:58,195
{\an8}- IBLP.
- IBLP Movement, thought process.
504
00:28:58,362 --> 00:29:01,449
{\an8}- I... IBLP. Okay.
- I said, IBLP right.
505
00:29:01,532 --> 00:29:03,742
{\an8}- IBLP.
- The IBLP.
506
00:29:03,826 --> 00:29:05,661
{\an8}- The IBLP.
- IBLP.
507
00:29:05,744 --> 00:29:09,665
{\an8}[Brooke] Bill Gothard has never passed up
an opportunity to use an acronym.
508
00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:15,796
{\an8}[Bill Gothard] This matter of authority is
so important.
509
00:29:17,173 --> 00:29:22,094
[Brooke] Bill Gothard's teachings. There's
seven non-optional Basic Principles,
510
00:29:22,178 --> 00:29:25,848
but the biggest feature of Gothardism
is the authority teaching.
511
00:29:26,182 --> 00:29:28,142
Because we are living in a day
512
00:29:29,268 --> 00:29:32,521
in which we wanna have equal authority.
513
00:29:33,147 --> 00:29:36,942
Sons and daughters wanna be
on equal level with parents.
514
00:29:37,610 --> 00:29:39,737
Citizens, equal level with government.
515
00:29:40,196 --> 00:29:45,743
I mean, the whole attitude of
our day is equal authority,
516
00:29:46,368 --> 00:29:50,456
but God didn't structure your life that
way and it doesn't work that way.
517
00:29:51,624 --> 00:29:54,001
As long as we're under these
umbrellas of protection,
518
00:29:54,251 --> 00:29:57,087
Satan cannot get through
with destructive temptations.
519
00:29:58,214 --> 00:30:00,090
[Jim Holt] There's a lot
of good people in IBLP.
520
00:30:00,299 --> 00:30:03,511
They go into it thinking,
I don't want my child to get in trouble.
521
00:30:03,594 --> 00:30:06,388
I don't want them to go down some of the
path and have some of the guilt of some
522
00:30:06,472 --> 00:30:07,848
of the sins that we've committed.
523
00:30:08,432 --> 00:30:11,685
And so, they go into it
thinking this is a better life.
524
00:30:12,061 --> 00:30:16,732
{\an8}I had gotten to go to The
Basic Seminar in high school.
525
00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:20,069
{\an8}I think it was about 1980. Right after we
got married, Michelle got to go
526
00:30:20,152 --> 00:30:23,030
to The Basic Seminar and that was one
of the best things that happened to us.
527
00:30:23,906 --> 00:30:27,993
[Kristin] Jim Bob Duggar is influenced
by Gothard's teachings
528
00:30:28,077 --> 00:30:33,916
including that of this Quiverfull idea
of having as many children as possible.
529
00:30:34,124 --> 00:30:36,544
{\an8}People say, well, how many
children should you have?
530
00:30:38,254 --> 00:30:41,549
{\an8}The answer is, how many blessings of God.
531
00:30:42,132 --> 00:30:43,926
{\an8}[Kristin] Within the Quiverfull movement,
532
00:30:44,009 --> 00:30:48,556
to be faithful Christians,
one needs to open themselves
533
00:30:48,639 --> 00:30:51,559
to as many children as God will give them.
534
00:30:51,809 --> 00:30:53,477
Well, I mean the source
of it is from the Bible.
535
00:30:53,561 --> 00:30:55,229
So whoever took it,
took it and ran with it.
536
00:30:55,312 --> 00:30:58,691
As arrows in the hand of a mighty man,
so are children of one's youth.
537
00:30:58,774 --> 00:31:01,610
[kids] So are children of the youth.
538
00:31:02,570 --> 00:31:08,200
Happy is the man that hath
his quiver full of them.
539
00:31:08,284 --> 00:31:09,368
[audience applauds]
540
00:31:09,493 --> 00:31:13,581
{\an8}[Michelle] Overpopulation is really a
myth.
541
00:31:13,664 --> 00:31:17,501
{\an8}The whole world population could fit into
the city limits of Jacksonville, Florida.
542
00:31:17,876 --> 00:31:19,670
We have two children, a boy and a girl.
543
00:31:22,006 --> 00:31:23,591
We have 11 children.
544
00:31:23,674 --> 00:31:25,426
[Jim Holt] According to the IBLP,
545
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:28,262
the more children you have, the
more blessed by God you are.
546
00:31:28,345 --> 00:31:30,931
{\an8}- Good morning, everybody.
- [Duggars] Good morning!
547
00:31:31,015 --> 00:31:33,434
{\an8}Michelle, I'm almost
a little afraid to ask.
548
00:31:33,517 --> 00:31:35,269
{\an8}I understand you've got a big
announcement this morning?
549
00:31:35,352 --> 00:31:39,898
We are expecting our 20th child, yes!
550
00:31:39,982 --> 00:31:42,151
And just thrilled.
551
00:31:42,860 --> 00:31:44,028
[Amy] Be fruitful and multiply.
552
00:31:44,111 --> 00:31:48,115
That's what I heard when I was 12, when I
was eight.
553
00:31:48,198 --> 00:31:49,867
- That is crazy to me.
- When I was...
554
00:31:49,992 --> 00:31:51,368
[dramatic music]
555
00:31:51,535 --> 00:31:53,412
[doctor] I don't see a heartbeat.
556
00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:55,623
You don't see a heartbeat?
557
00:31:56,540 --> 00:31:57,708
Oh...
558
00:31:57,791 --> 00:31:59,627
{\an8}[Jim Bob] Both of our hearts just sank.
559
00:32:00,628 --> 00:32:04,590
{\an8}There was no heartbeat and we just,
we both were just devastated.
560
00:32:07,176 --> 00:32:10,888
[Amy] You know, with all of the babies
and with the popularity of the show,
561
00:32:10,971 --> 00:32:14,350
they literally became the
poster child for IBLP.
562
00:32:14,433 --> 00:32:17,394
{\an8}If you have not gone
through The Basic Seminar,
563
00:32:17,770 --> 00:32:19,313
{\an8}I highly recommend it.
564
00:32:20,773 --> 00:32:25,653
{\an8}[Brooke] Bill Gothard was traveling around
playing to huge coliseums of people.
565
00:32:26,111 --> 00:32:28,989
{\an8}The Institute estimates
that over 2 million people
566
00:32:29,073 --> 00:32:31,825
{\an8}have attended Bill Gothard's seminars.
567
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:33,243
He was a rockstar.
568
00:32:33,327 --> 00:32:35,412
[dramatic music]
569
00:32:35,829 --> 00:32:38,916
[Josh Pease] In an age in
which Christian institutions
570
00:32:38,999 --> 00:32:42,920
and authority was slipping,
here's a guy drawing crowds.
571
00:32:44,922 --> 00:32:47,883
For people like the Duggars,
it felt like winning.
572
00:32:49,385 --> 00:32:51,345
{\an8}So my name is Josh Pease.
573
00:32:51,553 --> 00:32:54,807
{\an8}And several years ago
now, I wrote an article
574
00:32:54,890 --> 00:32:59,812
{\an8}for the New Republic about Bill Gothard,
IBLP, and that whole world.
575
00:33:00,604 --> 00:33:02,189
{\an8}[narrator] The Advanced
Training Institute
576
00:33:02,356 --> 00:33:05,776
{\an8}is biblically centered,
parent supervised, and home based.
577
00:33:06,694 --> 00:33:11,281
{\an8}[Josh Pease] In 1984, Bill Gothard
launches the Advanced Training Institute,
578
00:33:11,365 --> 00:33:14,368
a homeschool curriculum that is basically
579
00:33:14,451 --> 00:33:16,453
taking all of these things
he had been teaching
580
00:33:16,537 --> 00:33:21,291
in these seminars and then turning it
into a curriculum for families.
581
00:33:21,709 --> 00:33:26,630
{\an8}The resources that at
ATI has are... are what we needed.
582
00:33:26,714 --> 00:33:31,385
{\an8}I couldn't do it, I don't think, alone
without the resources there.
583
00:33:31,468 --> 00:33:32,928
[Jill] Growing up, it was kind of the idea
584
00:33:33,011 --> 00:33:37,224
that like they wanted to
protect us from the world.
585
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:42,229
{\an8}People go into the IBLP group
and all of these conferences and stuff
586
00:33:42,312 --> 00:33:44,940
{\an8}because it's fun and
exciting and community.
587
00:33:45,441 --> 00:33:47,776
This is the key. They're all about the
keys to success,
588
00:33:47,860 --> 00:33:49,027
the key to that, key to this.
589
00:33:49,111 --> 00:33:52,030
The key that's gonna
like give us what we need
590
00:33:52,114 --> 00:33:54,491
to be good parents and to
homeschool our kids and make sure,
591
00:33:54,575 --> 00:33:56,827
make sure that our kids turn out right.
592
00:33:58,662 --> 00:34:03,292
It's very appealing when you see an
organization that promises that to you.
593
00:34:03,375 --> 00:34:05,919
[audience applauds]
594
00:34:06,170 --> 00:34:09,131
[dramatic music]
595
00:34:09,339 --> 00:34:12,760
[Jennifer] The Duggars were definitely
used as a recruiting tool for IBLP.
596
00:34:12,843 --> 00:34:17,431
{\an8}God has opened up a lot
of ministry opportunities for our family.
597
00:34:17,514 --> 00:34:21,477
It's not a show. It's really not, it's
our life, it really is.
598
00:34:22,352 --> 00:34:25,063
[Jennifer] Christian fundamentalism
was largely underground.
599
00:34:25,147 --> 00:34:27,524
They had their own schools,
their own entertainment,
600
00:34:27,608 --> 00:34:29,276
their own everything, really.
601
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:32,321
They had no reason to
interact with secular culture.
602
00:34:32,738 --> 00:34:37,034
And then the Duggars came around
and it suddenly was mainstream.
603
00:34:37,367 --> 00:34:39,953
{\an8}[narrator] Tom Cruise, Scientologist,
604
00:34:41,747 --> 00:34:44,374
{\an8}I think it's a privilege to
call yourself a Scientologist.
605
00:34:44,458 --> 00:34:46,251
{\an8}[Josh Pease] Scientology,
sort of the gateway
606
00:34:46,335 --> 00:34:51,089
{\an8}for most people into that was Tom Cruise.
It kind of legitimized Scientology.
607
00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:54,426
And in a lot of ways, that's exactly what
the Duggars were for Bill Gothard.
608
00:34:54,843 --> 00:34:57,596
{\an8}Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar,
Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar.
609
00:34:57,679 --> 00:35:00,432
[reporter] Michelle and Jim Bob have
now written their second book.
610
00:35:00,516 --> 00:35:02,434
[woman] We've never had this many people
in our store ever.
611
00:35:02,518 --> 00:35:06,855
[Michelle] The kids have been on TV for 10
years, but we never expected our family
612
00:35:06,939 --> 00:35:09,566
to receive so much
attention everywhere we go.
613
00:35:09,650 --> 00:35:11,652
- Are these all your kids?
- 18, yes.
614
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:13,070
My name is Joshua Duggar.
615
00:35:13,153 --> 00:35:15,739
[Kristin] All of the
Duggar children were steeped
616
00:35:15,823 --> 00:35:19,785
in Gothard's teachings and
Josh Duggar was no exception.
617
00:35:20,828 --> 00:35:25,123
And as he comes of age, he kind of steps
into his own place in this world.
618
00:35:26,166 --> 00:35:28,502
His star just continues to rise.
619
00:35:30,462 --> 00:35:32,047
- We have...
- Hello.
620
00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:33,340
How are you?
621
00:35:33,423 --> 00:35:36,635
[Meredith] And Josh and Anna are with us
in the studio. Cut in.
622
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,220
- Cut in?
- [Meredith] Mhm-hmm. Any piece.
623
00:35:38,303 --> 00:35:39,513
[drum roll]
624
00:35:39,596 --> 00:35:42,099
- Okay, now flip it over.
- Wow.
625
00:35:42,558 --> 00:35:44,601
{\an8}- [Meredith] Do you know what that means?
- I think that means it's a girl.
626
00:35:44,935 --> 00:35:47,938
{\an8}The pink is for a girl!
You got a girl!
627
00:35:48,397 --> 00:35:52,401
We have decided to
accept that that job in DC.
628
00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:56,864
[Danielle] It's not unusual or unexpected
that someone who's like the golden boy
629
00:35:56,947 --> 00:35:59,575
on a reality TV show would
also want to go into politics.
630
00:35:59,658 --> 00:36:01,618
♪ This land is your land ♪
631
00:36:01,702 --> 00:36:03,453
♪ This land is my land ♪
632
00:36:03,537 --> 00:36:04,580
{\an8}Hello, I'm Josh Duggar.
633
00:36:04,872 --> 00:36:07,541
{\an8}[narrator] Two years ago, Josh
accepted a high profile job
634
00:36:07,624 --> 00:36:11,962
{\an8}with the Family Research Council, a deeply
conservative lobbying group devoted
635
00:36:12,045 --> 00:36:13,964
{\an8}to promoting a Christian worldview.
636
00:36:14,339 --> 00:36:18,051
[Deanna] You know, I was excited for them
to get their own show.
637
00:36:18,135 --> 00:36:20,345
I felt like it was a good
opportunity for them.
638
00:36:20,429 --> 00:36:22,180
[audience applauds]
639
00:36:22,306 --> 00:36:23,807
But I didn't know everything.
640
00:36:27,019 --> 00:36:30,564
I didn't know what was
going on behind the scenes.
641
00:36:30,647 --> 00:36:32,733
Reality TV family in free fall.
642
00:36:33,066 --> 00:36:35,402
{\an8}[Megyn] A bombshell May 19th, 2015.
643
00:36:35,652 --> 00:36:37,446
[reporter] Shocking
accusations come to light
644
00:36:37,529 --> 00:36:41,241
that the eldest Duggar child
sexually abused children.
645
00:36:41,325 --> 00:36:43,952
{\an8}[reporter] After an anonymous letter
to the Oprah Winfrey Show,
646
00:36:44,036 --> 00:36:46,622
{\an8}Oprah's team called
the Child Abuse Hotline
647
00:36:46,705 --> 00:36:48,415
{\an8}and police started asking questions.
648
00:36:48,498 --> 00:36:51,084
{\an8}[reporter] Stunning, even
by reality TV standards,
649
00:36:51,168 --> 00:36:53,837
{\an8}the news came to light
when InTouch Magazine
650
00:36:53,921 --> 00:36:58,008
{\an8}obtained a decade old police report
detailing Josh's alleged molestation.
651
00:36:58,133 --> 00:37:01,178
{\an8}[Megyn] It reveals that
Josh, while 14 or 15 years old,
652
00:37:01,261 --> 00:37:06,475
{\an8}forcibly touched at least
five girls in 2002 and 2003.
653
00:37:06,558 --> 00:37:08,477
{\an8}[reporter] Some are
speculating the unnamed victims
654
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,312
are some of Josh's sisters.
655
00:37:10,395 --> 00:37:12,773
[tense music]
656
00:37:14,149 --> 00:37:16,109
[interviewer] Do you
remember when he was sent away?
657
00:37:18,278 --> 00:37:19,154
Yeah.
658
00:37:19,655 --> 00:37:20,489
Only what you're comfortable with.
659
00:37:20,572 --> 00:37:24,451
I don't know, I just, I kind of don't
really wanna talk about all that, um...
660
00:37:26,078 --> 00:37:27,162
Just because like...
661
00:37:27,245 --> 00:37:28,538
We wish nobody had ever
found out about any of that.
662
00:37:28,622 --> 00:37:31,166
Yeah, it's really hard for
me because I'm just like...
663
00:37:32,876 --> 00:37:34,753
There were certain things
that like she shared with me
664
00:37:34,836 --> 00:37:37,214
in confidence because we
were a married couple that,
665
00:37:37,923 --> 00:37:40,634
with all of our hopes would
remain confident between us
666
00:37:40,717 --> 00:37:43,136
until we both died and nobody
would ever find out about it.
667
00:37:46,556 --> 00:37:50,227
This is something that like
is heavily guarded and...
668
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:52,479
I sho... And nobody should have
ever known about it.
669
00:37:52,562 --> 00:37:55,691
So I don't like talking about it, um...
670
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,152
The moment that the reports,
everything was released,
671
00:37:59,236 --> 00:38:00,946
that was the moment it was public.
672
00:38:03,031 --> 00:38:05,450
[interviewer] When did you
first find out about Josh?
673
00:38:12,541 --> 00:38:16,420
Well, how deep do we go?
'Cause that's a rabbit hole that's... man.
674
00:38:17,212 --> 00:38:18,463
- It's really twisted.
- Um...
675
00:38:20,632 --> 00:38:22,592
[Bobye] Um, we had known
him from a baby, you know,
676
00:38:22,676 --> 00:38:26,096
{\an8}and he was our first daughter's boyfriend.
677
00:38:26,638 --> 00:38:28,056
[Jim Holt] And Josh says something like,
678
00:38:28,181 --> 00:38:31,393
"I'd like to know if I'd be able to court
Kaeleigh for the purpose of marriage."
679
00:38:31,476 --> 00:38:32,769
And we said yes.
680
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,816
{\an8}[narrator] With lead son Josh, age 16,
681
00:38:38,025 --> 00:38:40,944
{\an8}how will the Duggars handle
the delicate issue of dating?
682
00:38:41,028 --> 00:38:42,529
{\an8}[Josh Duggar] I think that if you're
gonna give your heart away,
683
00:38:42,612 --> 00:38:45,032
{\an8}you need to be giving it to
someone who's gonna love you
684
00:38:45,115 --> 00:38:47,951
and care about you and not
someone who's gonna simply
685
00:38:48,035 --> 00:38:50,037
get carried away with their emotions.
686
00:38:51,621 --> 00:38:55,667
[Jim Holt] So, March 30th, 2003,
when we found out,
687
00:38:56,043 --> 00:38:58,211
I went out to the field and just bawled.
688
00:38:58,837 --> 00:39:03,383
What Jim Bob had said to us was,
Josh had has gotten into some trouble.
689
00:39:03,633 --> 00:39:06,219
You know, he is touched his
sisters inappropriately.
690
00:39:06,303 --> 00:39:08,847
That was their big thing
that they would say, is it?
691
00:39:08,930 --> 00:39:11,141
Yeah, he had said one time,
he molested his sisters.
692
00:39:11,224 --> 00:39:13,477
And Michelle said, "Don't
you say that again."
693
00:39:13,810 --> 00:39:15,854
He apparently been doing
it since he was 12,
694
00:39:16,354 --> 00:39:18,273
but we found out about it when he was 15.
695
00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:20,150
So, when were you gonna tell us?
696
00:39:20,484 --> 00:39:24,071
And Michelle said, "We weren't gonna have
them tell you guys at all.
697
00:39:24,279 --> 00:39:26,907
We were gonna have Josh confess
to Kaeleigh once they were married."
698
00:39:27,365 --> 00:39:28,575
And so I asked Jim Bob, I said,
699
00:39:28,658 --> 00:39:30,869
"So are you basically saying you
were kinda using my daughter
700
00:39:30,952 --> 00:39:33,330
as like a carrot to get him
to behave the right way?"
701
00:39:33,413 --> 00:39:35,332
And he goes, "Well, yeah, kind of."
702
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:40,754
Jim Bob had written a bill
that created a sex offender website.
703
00:39:40,921 --> 00:39:42,172
I confronted him, I said, "Jim Bob,
704
00:39:42,255 --> 00:39:43,590
according to your own
bill that you've written
705
00:39:43,673 --> 00:39:46,635
and what you've told me,
your son should be on it.
706
00:39:46,718 --> 00:39:47,844
He needs to make it right with the law
707
00:39:47,928 --> 00:39:51,681
because he violated the law and
he needs to turn himself in."
708
00:39:52,057 --> 00:39:54,684
He's like, "I'm getting ready to take Josh
in. Would you wanna go?"
709
00:39:54,768 --> 00:39:56,937
I said, "Oh, yeah."
So I went right with him.
710
00:39:57,020 --> 00:39:58,438
We met at the state trooper's office.
711
00:39:58,522 --> 00:40:01,942
The state trooper sat down
and we told him the story.
712
00:40:02,025 --> 00:40:05,654
Josh told him what we thought at the time
was everything that he had done.
713
00:40:05,987 --> 00:40:08,782
He goes, "I'm gonna let you go this time."
He said, "But if you do it again,
714
00:40:08,865 --> 00:40:10,158
I'm really gonna come down hard on you."
715
00:40:10,242 --> 00:40:13,161
Well, we found out later that this guy
was a friend of Jim Bob's.
716
00:40:13,537 --> 00:40:17,791
[Bobye] Jim was considering, "What should
I do? We gotta get him outta the house.
717
00:40:17,958 --> 00:40:20,502
Where should we go?
Where should we take him?"
718
00:40:21,169 --> 00:40:24,256
[Jim Holt] He took him to Bill Gothard's
facility down in Little Rock.
719
00:40:24,339 --> 00:40:28,260
{\an8}[Bobye] Which was an IBLP
facility for troubled boys.
720
00:40:30,512 --> 00:40:32,973
{\an8}[Amy] I was like, "Where's Josh?
Where is he?"
721
00:40:33,056 --> 00:40:38,603
{\an8}And they're like, "Oh, he is helping
families build homes at a camp."
722
00:40:39,104 --> 00:40:40,438
And I was like, "Oh."
723
00:40:40,522 --> 00:40:42,315
And they're like, "Yeah,
he's a good guy like that."
724
00:40:42,399 --> 00:40:43,775
You just knew something was off.
725
00:40:44,734 --> 00:40:48,363
Josh was away and they were
gonna do this Parent Magazine interview.
726
00:40:48,613 --> 00:40:49,447
[producer] The one that led to their show?
727
00:40:49,531 --> 00:40:50,365
Yeah.
728
00:40:50,448 --> 00:40:54,703
[Jim Holt] And I was asking Jim Bob,
"What are you going to tell them?"
729
00:40:55,412 --> 00:40:58,206
He said, "Well, we're gonna tell them
that Josh is down there ministering."
730
00:40:58,290 --> 00:41:01,293
And I said, "Jim Bob, you
know that's not true."
731
00:41:01,376 --> 00:41:02,919
So he actually just checked him out.
732
00:41:03,003 --> 00:41:04,713
- Yeah, he didn't tell them.
- And brought him back.
733
00:41:04,796 --> 00:41:07,048
He brought him back and he said he wanted
him there for his birthday.
734
00:41:07,132 --> 00:41:08,592
It was right before Jim Bob's birthday.
735
00:41:08,675 --> 00:41:11,136
- They didn't turn him in.
- Or like make a report.
736
00:41:11,219 --> 00:41:13,597
They didn't write a report,
they didn't do anything.
737
00:41:15,098 --> 00:41:16,391
[Jim Holt] I said, "It doesn't matter if
you're the best
738
00:41:16,474 --> 00:41:17,851
Christian family to ever live.
739
00:41:18,143 --> 00:41:21,438
If somebody finds out about this 20 years
down the road, they will eat you alive."
740
00:41:22,022 --> 00:41:24,482
You know, it wasn't a blessing
to Josh, I'll tell you that.
741
00:41:24,566 --> 00:41:27,652
No, a curse, it was a curse to Josh.
742
00:41:29,404 --> 00:41:32,824
[Amy] It breaks my heart to
think about my sweet cousins
743
00:41:35,118 --> 00:41:37,078
and anyone else in the IBLP.
744
00:41:37,162 --> 00:41:38,246
[dramatic music]
745
00:41:38,330 --> 00:41:42,584
TLC created a PR show
for Gothard's teachings.
746
00:41:44,044 --> 00:41:46,087
[Jennifer] This is much
bigger than the Duggars.
747
00:41:46,171 --> 00:41:47,714
There are a lot of other people who are
748
00:41:47,797 --> 00:41:49,633
doing the same thing
who haven't been caught.
749
00:41:50,675 --> 00:41:52,677
[Tara] This isn't the first time I've
heard about this happening
750
00:41:52,761 --> 00:41:55,096
within this IBLP community.
751
00:41:55,639 --> 00:42:00,936
I look at Bill Gothard himself
and what he has been accused of.
752
00:42:02,729 --> 00:42:05,023
So much of the focus has been
specifically on the Duggars
753
00:42:05,273 --> 00:42:07,108
and not on The Institute itself.
754
00:42:07,192 --> 00:42:10,487
The Institute raises little predators.
755
00:42:11,321 --> 00:42:14,074
[Bill Gothard] We're all proud of these
mothers, fathers
756
00:42:14,241 --> 00:42:19,412
who obeyed the Lord in bringing more sons
and daughters into the world.
757
00:42:19,621 --> 00:42:21,122
[audience applauds]
758
00:42:21,498 --> 00:42:25,835
[Deanna] There's been so many people that
have been hurt by this so called ministry.
759
00:42:27,420 --> 00:42:31,758
[Tara] People look at Josh
Duggar and they see a monster.
760
00:42:34,344 --> 00:42:38,348
But, monsters are created.
761
00:42:39,516 --> 00:42:41,768
[Chad] At this point, you know,
I've pretty much burned every bridge
762
00:42:41,851 --> 00:42:44,562
in my family just by
being here, but whatever. [laughing]
763
00:42:46,773 --> 00:42:49,818
[Tara] Being a homeschool kid, like
you can spot 'em a mile away.
764
00:42:49,901 --> 00:42:52,779
{\an8}[Brooke] Bill Gothard promised
that his homeschool program
765
00:42:52,862 --> 00:42:57,867
{\an8}would be the equivalent of a prelaw degree
and a premedical degree.
766
00:42:57,993 --> 00:43:01,204
[Jim Bob] We teach our children
that evolution is totally unscientific.
767
00:43:01,288 --> 00:43:05,417
When I first started watching the Duggars,
everyone is very meek.
768
00:43:05,542 --> 00:43:09,462
[Michelle] Obey mama, sit really still,
look at me with big old smiles.
769
00:43:09,796 --> 00:43:13,717
But they don't show how
you get to the calmness.
770
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,012
[interviewer] Did you see your cousins
being punished with rods?
771
00:43:17,554 --> 00:43:20,640
[Lara] The audacity of Jim Bob Duggar to
say,
772
00:43:20,724 --> 00:43:23,059
"I can bring a camera crew
in here for years on end
773
00:43:23,143 --> 00:43:24,894
and nobody's gonna find out how we live."
774
00:43:24,978 --> 00:43:27,480
{\an8}[reporter] Do you ever worry that
the treatment didn't work?
775
00:43:27,564 --> 00:43:29,024
{\an8}No, Josh was a changed person.
776
00:43:29,107 --> 00:43:30,150
A lot of abuse happened.
777
00:43:30,233 --> 00:43:32,027
[man] Fear was a huge component.
778
00:43:32,319 --> 00:43:34,779
I would dream about being burned alive.
779
00:43:34,863 --> 00:43:36,823
[Brooke] Bill Gothard
taught that the creator
780
00:43:37,157 --> 00:43:39,075
of Cabbage Patch dolls was a warlock.
781
00:43:39,409 --> 00:43:41,411
This is what Gothard wants,
this is what God wants.
782
00:43:41,953 --> 00:43:45,373
[woman] Everything about that world sets
you up to be the perfect victim.
783
00:43:45,457 --> 00:43:51,129
[Jill] I just hope and pray that this
never happens to anyone else ever again.
784
00:43:52,172 --> 00:43:55,050
[dramatic music]