1 00:00:11,430 --> 00:00:12,765 [interviewer] It would make perfect sense 2 00:00:12,848 --> 00:00:15,851 that sitting down here today would be too much. 3 00:00:17,728 --> 00:00:20,439 What was it that recently changed? 4 00:00:20,981 --> 00:00:23,233 Yeah, I mean doing an interview like this isn't easy 5 00:00:23,317 --> 00:00:27,029 and like I didn't wanna do it. There's a lot there that like, 6 00:00:27,112 --> 00:00:30,449 do I wanna open that can of worms? It's just hard to go through. 7 00:00:31,366 --> 00:00:33,869 There were a lot of families in a similar situation, 8 00:00:33,952 --> 00:00:36,580 but it was very different in the sense 9 00:00:36,663 --> 00:00:41,585 that like my family was on television. 10 00:00:44,046 --> 00:00:46,423 [narrator] You've probably heard of the Duggar family, 11 00:00:46,715 --> 00:00:50,344 Jim Bob, Michelle, and their 19 biological children. 12 00:00:50,469 --> 00:00:52,679 It became like a phenomenon really fast. 13 00:00:53,305 --> 00:00:56,642 [man] I want to name my child Jim Bob. Jim Bob is the man. 14 00:00:57,017 --> 00:00:58,811 Everyone knew who the family was. 15 00:00:59,144 --> 00:01:00,187 [girls cheer] 16 00:01:00,270 --> 00:01:02,940 I actually decided to save my first kiss for marriage. 17 00:01:03,023 --> 00:01:04,733 [creepy dramatic music throughout] 18 00:01:04,817 --> 00:01:11,240 [Amy] I asked him, my uncle, "You don't believe in TV. Why are you on television?" 19 00:01:11,615 --> 00:01:15,369 And he responded with, "Well, this is a ministry." 20 00:01:16,036 --> 00:01:18,247 - 19 children. - 19 Kids and Counting. 21 00:01:18,372 --> 00:01:22,459 The whole world knows them for their hit show on TLC's 19 Kids and Counting. 22 00:01:22,543 --> 00:01:24,753 [Chad] Everyone keeps focusing on Duggar, Duggar, Duggar. 23 00:01:24,837 --> 00:01:29,091 What they do not focus on is how the Duggars came to be. 24 00:01:29,883 --> 00:01:32,969 [Jill] We were part of the Institute of Basic Life Principles 25 00:01:33,052 --> 00:01:35,264 from as early as I can remember. 26 00:01:35,347 --> 00:01:36,598 [dramatic music continues] 27 00:01:36,723 --> 00:01:39,977 [Chad] The Duggars were the poster children for the Institute. 28 00:01:41,645 --> 00:01:44,647 The leader of the Institute, he believed Christian families 29 00:01:44,772 --> 00:01:47,860 should have as many children as possible in order to have more chances 30 00:01:47,943 --> 00:01:50,112 to influence the world for Jesus Christ. 31 00:01:50,863 --> 00:01:53,699 It's what we've trained our children, their whole lives to do good in the world. 32 00:01:54,533 --> 00:01:57,536 [Josh Pease] The show explodes and there are spinoffs 33 00:01:57,619 --> 00:02:01,206 and there are more families who are getting their own reality TV series while 34 00:02:01,498 --> 00:02:04,793 at the same time that that's happening, there's more and more evidence coming out 35 00:02:04,877 --> 00:02:09,006 of just the pandemic of abuse that is happening everywhere this culture touches. 36 00:02:10,007 --> 00:02:12,342 [Jim Bob] God has used this situation with our oldest son, Josh, 37 00:02:12,426 --> 00:02:13,552 really to purify our family. 38 00:02:14,136 --> 00:02:15,387 Oh boy. 39 00:02:15,512 --> 00:02:19,600 It's hard to actually let yourself speak the truth. 40 00:02:20,767 --> 00:02:22,769 [woman] These people in this church who are supposed 41 00:02:22,853 --> 00:02:25,564 to be keeping me safe are harboring pedophiles. 42 00:02:25,646 --> 00:02:29,610 In this community, the word abuse doesn't really exist. 43 00:02:29,693 --> 00:02:31,653 Punish him with the rod severely. 44 00:02:31,737 --> 00:02:34,156 [woman] These are people who are scarring their children 45 00:02:34,239 --> 00:02:35,949 and doing it in the name of God. 46 00:02:36,283 --> 00:02:39,453 [Josh Pease] They turned every father into a cult leader 47 00:02:39,536 --> 00:02:43,707 and franchised, spiritual, physical, emotional, psychological abuse. 48 00:02:44,166 --> 00:02:46,084 [woman] It's patriarchal, it's authoritarian. 49 00:02:46,168 --> 00:02:48,629 Women don't have rights, children break. 50 00:02:48,711 --> 00:02:50,380 Instant obedience! 51 00:02:50,464 --> 00:02:52,132 That's the society that they're building. 52 00:02:52,507 --> 00:02:55,427 [Brooke] The IBLP teachings aren't Christianity 53 00:02:55,636 --> 00:02:57,471 they're something entirely different. 54 00:02:57,846 --> 00:03:01,183 [Kristin] The homeschooling is kind of the linchpin of this whole project. 55 00:03:01,266 --> 00:03:03,727 Instead of learning math, you're learning slut shaming. 56 00:03:03,810 --> 00:03:07,105 It's infiltrating into so many people's lives. 57 00:03:07,189 --> 00:03:10,067 [man] The goal was to funnel Christian homeschoolers 58 00:03:10,150 --> 00:03:12,361 into positions of influence in government. 59 00:03:12,444 --> 00:03:14,613 - [creepy dramatic music continues] - [soldiers hut] 60 00:03:14,696 --> 00:03:17,574 [woman] They're training their kids to refashion America. 61 00:03:17,658 --> 00:03:22,788 They operate as a cult in plain sight. World domination was the goal. 62 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,166 And they believe that they're populating the army that will help us get there. 63 00:03:27,167 --> 00:03:31,296 The Duggars' TV show was the engine for letting this thrive. 64 00:03:31,630 --> 00:03:35,509 The shiny happy images is the sugar and we're all high on it. 65 00:03:35,592 --> 00:03:38,845 [Josh Pease] There's so much more to that story. There's so much more there. 66 00:03:39,179 --> 00:03:42,140 I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. 67 00:03:42,683 --> 00:03:44,726 [dramatic music crescendoing] 68 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,187 They were just deceiving us all. 69 00:03:47,813 --> 00:03:50,607 [uplifting music] 70 00:04:02,119 --> 00:04:04,496 [peaceful music] 71 00:04:04,663 --> 00:04:06,915 I'm Derick Dillard, I'm from Rogers, Arkansas. 72 00:04:07,249 --> 00:04:10,877 I'm Jill Dillard and I'm from Springdale, Arkansas. 73 00:04:11,336 --> 00:04:14,798 I'm the fourth born of 19 children in the Duggar family. 74 00:04:16,507 --> 00:04:19,469 - Hello, I'm Jill Duggar. - [laughs] 75 00:04:19,553 --> 00:04:21,388 [Jill] I grew up on TV. 76 00:04:21,888 --> 00:04:24,516 [Michelle] As she's blossomed into womanhood, 77 00:04:24,599 --> 00:04:28,603 I've seen the good qualities of being very organized 78 00:04:28,687 --> 00:04:32,232 with this friendly, outgoing personality that she has. 79 00:04:32,315 --> 00:04:34,192 [Jill] There's a story that's gonna be told 80 00:04:34,276 --> 00:04:36,570 and I would rather be the one telling it than the tabloids 81 00:04:36,653 --> 00:04:39,698 and anybody else who can make up whatever they want. 82 00:04:41,241 --> 00:04:42,951 My parents are Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar. 83 00:04:43,827 --> 00:04:47,497 The oldest in our family is Josh and then twins, 84 00:04:47,581 --> 00:04:51,375 Jana and John, then me, I'm Jill, and then Jessa, Jinger, 85 00:04:51,460 --> 00:04:56,006 Joseph, Josiah, Joy, Jedediah, Jeremiah, they're another set of twins. 86 00:04:56,089 --> 00:04:59,259 Then Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah, Jordyn. 87 00:04:59,968 --> 00:05:06,767 Uh, wait, Justin, Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer, Jordyn, Josie. 88 00:05:07,934 --> 00:05:11,021 We were on the TV show on TLC about our family. 89 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,571 [dramatic music] 90 00:05:21,531 --> 00:05:27,329 My parents met when my dad was out on church visitation with a friend of his. 91 00:05:27,412 --> 00:05:30,415 His friend had mentioned, "Oh, there's this girl, she's a cheerleader. 92 00:05:30,499 --> 00:05:34,336 She just became a Christian" and my dad's like, "Let's go see her!" 93 00:05:34,836 --> 00:05:38,882 [Michelle] I was the baby of seven. I had a happy childhood, I have to say, 94 00:05:38,965 --> 00:05:43,637 but I wasn't like Jim Bob. I had dated, I had gotten mixed up 95 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,263 in that boyfriend, girlfriend mess. 96 00:05:45,347 --> 00:05:48,934 [Jill] My dad invited her to his junior senior banquet. She went and then. 97 00:05:49,017 --> 00:05:53,480 [Michelle] We talked for four hours about the things of God. 98 00:05:53,688 --> 00:05:59,277 He opened up the word of God and explained things to me that I had never heard. 99 00:06:00,028 --> 00:06:04,908 That night I got on my knees and I gave my life to God. 100 00:06:05,492 --> 00:06:09,579 Somewhere in there, somewhere after that, they got married. Pretty young actually. 101 00:06:09,663 --> 00:06:11,456 She was 17, he was 19. 102 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,917 [Jim Bob] When we first got married, we thought 103 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,294 maybe we'd have one or two or three children. 104 00:06:16,378 --> 00:06:17,838 Michelle went on birth control pills. 105 00:06:17,921 --> 00:06:20,340 She was on that up until we had her first son, Josh, 106 00:06:20,465 --> 00:06:24,553 and then she went back on the pill. And then she ended up getting pregnant 107 00:06:24,636 --> 00:06:29,683 while she was on the pill, and so the pill actually caused a miscarriage. 108 00:06:31,726 --> 00:06:37,816 And so, at that point together we just got on our knees 109 00:06:37,899 --> 00:06:41,486 before God and we asked His forgiveness 110 00:06:41,778 --> 00:06:45,490 and then right after that, God blessed us with twins. 111 00:06:45,574 --> 00:06:47,701 And then another one and another one. 112 00:06:47,784 --> 00:06:49,577 [audience laughs] 113 00:06:49,827 --> 00:06:52,789 We gave that area of our life to God and He just kept blessing us. 114 00:06:52,873 --> 00:06:55,834 [uplifting music] 115 00:06:56,209 --> 00:07:02,382 [Jill] My parents believed you should have as many kids as you're capable of having 116 00:07:02,465 --> 00:07:04,176 until your body tells you to stop. 117 00:07:04,801 --> 00:07:07,762 My grandparents, neither one on either side 118 00:07:07,846 --> 00:07:10,515 agreed with my parents having a million kids. 119 00:07:10,599 --> 00:07:13,226 They were like, concerned about my mom's health 120 00:07:13,310 --> 00:07:16,062 and like they would always say, "Oh, is this your last one?" 121 00:07:16,146 --> 00:07:18,690 [Jim Bob] Look at here, Grandpa, this is your new grandbaby. 122 00:07:18,940 --> 00:07:22,819 This is Jordyn Grace Makiya Duggar, yeah. 123 00:07:24,738 --> 00:07:28,325 [Jill] My dad was working like three jobs. He was working at a convenience store, 124 00:07:28,742 --> 00:07:32,621 and he had a car business, and then he had a tow truck service. 125 00:07:33,288 --> 00:07:38,000 When I smell that diesel smell, it reminds me of my dad with his sweet tea 126 00:07:38,084 --> 00:07:41,004 in his lap, riding like one or two of us 127 00:07:41,087 --> 00:07:43,965 in the truck next to him up in the cab bouncing along. 128 00:07:45,050 --> 00:07:47,260 We would find all of the Kids Eat Free places 129 00:07:47,344 --> 00:07:48,970 and like we'd just stay there for hours. 130 00:07:49,596 --> 00:07:52,098 My dad and mom have like a little bit of pride 131 00:07:52,182 --> 00:07:54,601 where it's like, "Yeah, I think we put him out of business." 132 00:07:56,811 --> 00:07:59,648 My dad grew up very poor. 133 00:08:00,148 --> 00:08:05,403 I think it made him feel like he probably had to like grow up a little early 134 00:08:05,487 --> 00:08:08,031 and try and like protect his family. 135 00:08:08,990 --> 00:08:11,952 He had one sister and her name is Deanna. 136 00:08:13,662 --> 00:08:19,250 My brother and I always had a really close relationship and we got along really well. 137 00:08:20,377 --> 00:08:24,673 We were brought up Missionary Baptist, which is a conservative Baptist. 138 00:08:24,756 --> 00:08:27,717 We weren't allowed to go to dances. 139 00:08:28,677 --> 00:08:31,763 I was not allowed to wear jeans for a while. 140 00:08:32,597 --> 00:08:35,892 Being a cheerleader, I couldn't be, I wasn't allowed, 141 00:08:36,726 --> 00:08:40,188 so that's why I gave my daughter, Amy, freedom 142 00:08:40,272 --> 00:08:43,858 of anything she wanted to do that I was not allowed to do. 143 00:08:45,986 --> 00:08:49,364 I'm Amy King, I was the crazy cousin. 144 00:08:49,447 --> 00:08:52,993 So I'm Dillon King, I'm just a supportive husband. That's all. 145 00:08:53,076 --> 00:08:54,035 [Amy laughs] 146 00:08:54,119 --> 00:08:58,957 Everyone asks me if I'm gonna have this many kids and that's a no. [laughs] 147 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,794 Amy isn't the same way as us, but we still like her. [laughing] 148 00:09:02,919 --> 00:09:06,673 [Amy] I am Jim Bob's niece. I'm the oldest out of all the kids. 149 00:09:08,091 --> 00:09:10,343 I literally grew up on camera. 150 00:09:11,553 --> 00:09:14,973 It is a constructed regality, you know you have to get the angles right. 151 00:09:15,056 --> 00:09:19,561 You walk through a door 20 times. If they miss part of an interview, 152 00:09:19,644 --> 00:09:22,897 you have to look a certain way so it's like, "Oh, it's the same day!" 153 00:09:22,981 --> 00:09:28,153 Like, it's reality but it's not. [laughs] 154 00:09:29,154 --> 00:09:35,076 The way that I was raised was rock and roll, you know, this is life and enjoy it. 155 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,664 Teenage years was Jonathan Taylor Thomas posters on the wall, 156 00:09:39,831 --> 00:09:42,958 and NSYNC, and all the boy bands 157 00:09:43,043 --> 00:09:46,421 and I got to have pool parties and there were boys. 158 00:09:46,504 --> 00:09:48,673 I had my first boyfriend when I was in eighth grade. 159 00:09:48,757 --> 00:09:50,008 [interviewer] Have you ever kissed a guy before? 160 00:09:50,091 --> 00:09:53,094 Yes, sorry, Aunt Michelle and Uncle Jim Bob! 161 00:09:53,178 --> 00:09:56,598 But I loved my cousins and I loved my family. 162 00:09:56,931 --> 00:10:00,560 I was over there every day. This is how like country we are. 163 00:10:00,643 --> 00:10:05,273 During recess, I would literally sneak into the cow pasture 164 00:10:05,398 --> 00:10:09,027 and go across the field to see them. 165 00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:14,949 But every aspect of their life was completely different than mine. 166 00:10:15,784 --> 00:10:18,912 I didn't know what they were being taught, you know, 167 00:10:18,995 --> 00:10:20,580 I just knew they were homeschooled. 168 00:10:20,914 --> 00:10:23,708 At a young age, you realized really quickly 169 00:10:23,792 --> 00:10:26,920 that it was a very strict household. 170 00:10:27,921 --> 00:10:29,714 You know, you couldn't turn on the radio. 171 00:10:29,798 --> 00:10:30,882 They don't have TVs either. 172 00:10:30,965 --> 00:10:32,342 Yeah, or TV. 173 00:10:32,425 --> 00:10:36,596 Um, you know, my mom used to call them when there'd be like a tornado warning. 174 00:10:37,097 --> 00:10:38,890 [meteorologist] God, we've had numerous lightning strikes. 175 00:10:39,140 --> 00:10:41,476 [Amy] Because they had no way of knowing. 176 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,686 You know, they had pantaloons underneath their dresses 177 00:10:44,020 --> 00:10:45,438 - and those are considered… - I don't even know what that is. 178 00:10:46,398 --> 00:10:49,984 [Amy] Pantaloons are white cotton pants, T-shirt. 179 00:10:50,068 --> 00:10:51,236 [Dillon] Pants under a dress? 180 00:10:51,319 --> 00:10:53,988 But they're not just pants, they're billowy. 181 00:10:54,406 --> 00:10:57,659 You can't wear shorts, you can't show your shoulders. 182 00:10:57,742 --> 00:11:01,287 You just knew that… you just didn't act like your actual self. 183 00:11:01,788 --> 00:11:04,332 [Jim Bob] This is my niece Amy. I love her very much. 184 00:11:04,416 --> 00:11:09,587 I was there at her birth and it's amazing. Now I'm here at your baptism. 185 00:11:09,671 --> 00:11:10,505 I know! 186 00:11:10,672 --> 00:11:13,007 And in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. 187 00:11:16,052 --> 00:11:17,846 [Amy] I admired my uncle. 188 00:11:18,263 --> 00:11:21,141 He was a father figure in a way to me. 189 00:11:21,641 --> 00:11:25,770 Back then it was just like, "Oh my goodness, what? What can't this guy do?" 190 00:11:25,937 --> 00:11:28,523 I just remember thinking, is he gonna be president? 191 00:11:28,606 --> 00:11:31,609 Like what? How far is this gonna go, you know? 192 00:11:31,693 --> 00:11:36,823 [crowd chatter] 193 00:11:37,699 --> 00:11:42,162 [Jill] My dad heard about this pro-life rally at the capitol. 194 00:11:42,704 --> 00:11:44,873 [Jim Bob] When we got to the rally, there was 2000 people 195 00:11:44,956 --> 00:11:48,501 standing out in front of the capitol, begging these representatives 196 00:11:48,585 --> 00:11:51,087 and senators to ban partial birth abortion. 197 00:11:51,546 --> 00:11:58,553 But that day, instead of going and voting to pass that ban, they voted it down. 198 00:12:00,555 --> 00:12:03,057 God put in my heart that day to get involved. 199 00:12:04,726 --> 00:12:06,394 [Jill] After this rally, we went and like 200 00:12:06,478 --> 00:12:09,522 toured the capitol and met the governor, Mike Huckabee. 201 00:12:10,273 --> 00:12:13,776 For my dad, I think that started opening his eyes to like, 202 00:12:14,027 --> 00:12:16,446 "Hey, I should run for office and maybe I can make a difference." 203 00:12:16,529 --> 00:12:22,118 [Jim Bob] I was totally scared to death, but we ran and the Lord put us in there. 204 00:12:22,202 --> 00:12:25,747 [reporter] From Little Rock, Republican State Representative Jim Bob Duggar. 205 00:12:26,206 --> 00:12:29,459 [Jill] We moved to Little Rock for a few months while they were in session, 206 00:12:29,876 --> 00:12:31,961 which was obviously easier to do when you homeschool. 207 00:12:32,045 --> 00:12:35,423 We loved going to the Capitol. You could take your school with you 208 00:12:35,507 --> 00:12:39,636 and hang out in the balcony and watch everything happen. 209 00:12:39,969 --> 00:12:43,264 Josh, my big brother, loved being there with my dad. 210 00:12:43,765 --> 00:12:46,309 He got to go more than the rest of us 'cause he was the oldest. 211 00:12:46,392 --> 00:12:49,979 [Jim Bob] A lot of the other state representatives named him Little Governor. 212 00:12:50,063 --> 00:12:53,566 They thought he has a lot of charisma even from a young age. 213 00:12:54,442 --> 00:12:57,654 [Jill] Josh had like a little boys club thing with some of his friends. 214 00:12:57,737 --> 00:12:59,072 No rugrats allowed. 215 00:12:59,364 --> 00:13:00,823 [Jill] They named their club "Boycott", 216 00:13:00,907 --> 00:13:04,244 Boy's Christian Outreach Team, because the convenience store 217 00:13:04,327 --> 00:13:09,123 at the end of our street, I think they started selling, 218 00:13:09,457 --> 00:13:12,085 it was either alcohol or pornography or something like that 219 00:13:12,168 --> 00:13:14,045 and they were like, we're gonna boycott them. 220 00:13:15,255 --> 00:13:18,174 My dad ran twice, was elected twice, 221 00:13:18,258 --> 00:13:21,302 served four years in the State House of Representatives. 222 00:13:21,386 --> 00:13:23,888 [dramatic music] 223 00:13:24,806 --> 00:13:30,478 [Kristin] In 2002, Jim Bob sets his sights on the US Senate. 224 00:13:31,646 --> 00:13:35,233 I'm Kristin Kobes Du Mez. I'm a religious historian. 225 00:13:35,567 --> 00:13:38,152 For people like Jim Bob Duggar, 226 00:13:38,236 --> 00:13:40,697 Christianity required action. 227 00:13:40,780 --> 00:13:44,867 So Jim Bob Duggar and his family are at the right place at the right time. 228 00:13:46,786 --> 00:13:50,164 [Jill] All the kids we went in to vote with my parents all lined up. 229 00:13:50,582 --> 00:13:52,958 All of us in our weird dresses and stuff. 230 00:13:53,710 --> 00:13:56,212 Somebody took a picture of us and then it was printed in, 231 00:13:56,296 --> 00:13:57,880 I think the New York Times. 232 00:13:57,964 --> 00:14:01,217 Jim Bob loses his bid for the Senate, 233 00:14:02,176 --> 00:14:06,389 but it's that picture that's going to change the direction of his life. 234 00:14:08,057 --> 00:14:11,269 Parents Magazine sees that and they run a profile 235 00:14:11,352 --> 00:14:16,941 on the Duggar family and that draws the attention of Discovery Health. 236 00:14:17,025 --> 00:14:19,569 [Jill] Discovery Health reached out to my dad. 237 00:14:19,652 --> 00:14:23,698 [narrator] This fall, explore medical science on the cutting edge. 238 00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:26,701 [Jill] The network was always very much focused 239 00:14:26,784 --> 00:14:29,871 on like surgeries and random stuff. 240 00:14:29,954 --> 00:14:33,625 [narrator] Will George's fantasy of a full head of hair become a reality? 241 00:14:34,375 --> 00:14:35,501 [Jill] Like conjoined twins! 242 00:14:35,585 --> 00:14:38,171 [narrator] Above the waist, they seem to function independently. 243 00:14:38,713 --> 00:14:41,633 [Jill] They wanted to do a one hour documentary about our family. 244 00:14:41,966 --> 00:14:46,220 [Kristin] Jim Bob is presented with a new opportunity 245 00:14:46,304 --> 00:14:50,808 which will give him the power to present his values 246 00:14:50,892 --> 00:14:55,271 to the entire country and an opportunity to make a lot of money. 247 00:14:55,938 --> 00:14:58,900 [narrator] Ladies and gentlemen, meet the Duggars. 248 00:15:00,109 --> 00:15:03,780 I'm Jim Bob, and this is my wife Michelle. Welcome to the Duggar home. 249 00:15:04,530 --> 00:15:06,824 [narrator] If you lost count, allow us to help. 250 00:15:07,325 --> 00:15:10,828 That was a total of 14 kids and two sets of twins. 251 00:15:11,537 --> 00:15:15,958 And the keen observer might have detected that, yes, number 15 is on the way. 252 00:15:18,127 --> 00:15:22,465 That family of eight kids are the Holts. Father, Jim has known Jim Bob for years. 253 00:15:22,548 --> 00:15:24,258 [Jim Holt] Jim Bob Duggar and I grew up together. 254 00:15:24,342 --> 00:15:27,595 We went to Shiloh Christian High School together from seventh grade on. 255 00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:31,474 [Jill] And Jim Holt was one of my dad's friends, one of his best friends. 256 00:15:32,725 --> 00:15:34,060 - I'll let you go first. - Ladies first. 257 00:15:34,143 --> 00:15:36,646 No, don't do that to me. Go ahead. 258 00:15:36,729 --> 00:15:38,356 You want me to just talk for you, like Jim and Bobye? 259 00:15:38,439 --> 00:15:39,732 - No. - Okay, just me? 260 00:15:39,816 --> 00:15:40,650 Just you for you. 261 00:15:40,858 --> 00:15:43,111 - Jim Holt. - And I'm Bobye. 262 00:15:43,194 --> 00:15:47,615 [Jim] We kind of met on a blind date. I was 19 and… 263 00:15:48,282 --> 00:15:49,409 And I was 14. 264 00:15:49,492 --> 00:15:51,828 Well, we didn't know that. I didn't know that at the time. 265 00:15:51,911 --> 00:15:55,748 She was, she was developed, she looked mature. 266 00:15:56,249 --> 00:16:00,378 I was told by my cousin that she was 17 or 18, so I didn't know she was that young. 267 00:16:01,087 --> 00:16:03,172 We all marry young in Arkansas, you know. 268 00:16:03,965 --> 00:16:06,384 Did I tell you we're related? No, I'm just kidding. [laughs] We're not. 269 00:16:06,467 --> 00:16:08,553 So anyway, Jim Bob said, 270 00:16:08,636 --> 00:16:11,013 "We need some people there at the ice skating rink at the Jones Center." 271 00:16:11,431 --> 00:16:13,516 And so we said, "Yeah, we'll come there and skate." 272 00:16:13,599 --> 00:16:15,309 And then they come up and just stuck the camera 273 00:16:15,393 --> 00:16:18,104 in our face right off the bat and said, "Well what do you think about this?" 274 00:16:18,187 --> 00:16:21,357 And I thought, "Well, what I do?" And so, I did a little quick interview 275 00:16:21,441 --> 00:16:22,900 but wished it wasn't that time. 276 00:16:22,984 --> 00:16:26,279 - And you regret that? - Yeah, I regret, I regret doing that. 277 00:16:26,362 --> 00:16:29,240 ♪ Jesus is my everything ♪ 278 00:16:29,323 --> 00:16:31,159 [narrator] The two families composed the core 279 00:16:31,242 --> 00:16:33,327 of what amounts to a homegrown church. 280 00:16:34,871 --> 00:16:37,039 [Jim Holt] When we had our first daughter, it was March 1st. 281 00:16:37,123 --> 00:16:38,541 Well, Josh was born March 3rd. 282 00:16:39,083 --> 00:16:42,170 [Bobye] Over the years, our relationship with him had grown. 283 00:16:42,503 --> 00:16:47,008 He was our first daughter's boyfriend and we had known him since he was a baby. 284 00:16:49,427 --> 00:16:52,847 My name is Joshua Duggar. I may not be a household name, 285 00:16:52,930 --> 00:16:54,348 but you might have heard of my family. 286 00:16:55,516 --> 00:16:58,019 [all] We're the Duggars! 287 00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:02,273 [Jill] Discovery Health did their one hour documentary and it did really well. 288 00:17:03,983 --> 00:17:07,152 Then they did a Christmas special where we pretended 289 00:17:07,236 --> 00:17:09,112 to have Christmas and it was like really weird. 290 00:17:09,738 --> 00:17:12,699 There was five of those specials. 291 00:17:12,784 --> 00:17:14,285 [narrator] The small house where the Duggars 292 00:17:14,368 --> 00:17:18,539 currently live might seem crowded with half the people with only two bathrooms. 293 00:17:18,747 --> 00:17:21,417 When we moved from the smaller house, 294 00:17:21,501 --> 00:17:24,545 which was like 2,400 square feet into the bigger house, 295 00:17:24,629 --> 00:17:27,632 which was 7,000 square feet, I was a teenager. 296 00:17:27,715 --> 00:17:32,303 There were a lot more bathrooms for all of us, like nine bathrooms. 297 00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:33,805 The kitchen is gorgeous. 298 00:17:33,888 --> 00:17:36,766 [Josh Duggar] This is pretty much my mom's dream come true. 299 00:17:36,849 --> 00:17:38,893 [Jim Holt] Jim Bob needed help getting his house done 300 00:17:39,101 --> 00:17:41,479 and the show made arrangements to help him finish his house, 301 00:17:41,729 --> 00:17:44,190 which was $200 or several hundred thousand dollars to get it finished. 302 00:17:44,899 --> 00:17:47,777 [Jill] And then 2008, the reality show started. 303 00:17:47,860 --> 00:17:49,695 17 Kids and Counting, 16 Kids and Counting, 304 00:17:49,779 --> 00:17:52,448 something like that, I don't know which kid we were on by then. 305 00:17:52,532 --> 00:17:53,741 One of 'em and counting! 306 00:17:54,325 --> 00:17:57,703 [Deanna] The popularity grew very large. 307 00:17:58,955 --> 00:18:03,209 [Amy] Everyone was mesmerized by how you can have that many kids 308 00:18:03,626 --> 00:18:07,964 and have a clean house, have everything color coded. 309 00:18:08,047 --> 00:18:10,675 The laundry itself is a story. 310 00:18:10,967 --> 00:18:13,636 [Josh Duggar] Poor Jessa, she's in charge of the laundry 311 00:18:13,719 --> 00:18:16,931 with up to 10 loads a day. Jessa needs some help. 312 00:18:17,014 --> 00:18:19,517 [Jessa] Who's available to help with the laundry? 313 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,812 [Amy] Grocery shopping was insane! 314 00:18:23,145 --> 00:18:28,192 It was just such a different way of living and in a way it looked good. 315 00:18:28,276 --> 00:18:29,735 You know, there wasn't any drama. 316 00:18:30,653 --> 00:18:34,949 The kids were never allowed to argue. The mom and dad were peaceful. 317 00:18:35,032 --> 00:18:39,161 They never had fights. Everyone was like, who's this family? 318 00:18:39,245 --> 00:18:41,330 Who's this family? Who is this family? 319 00:18:43,791 --> 00:18:46,586 [Josiah] Even though we're nine times the size of an average family. 320 00:18:46,669 --> 00:18:48,588 [Joy Anna] We somehow make it all work. 321 00:18:51,591 --> 00:18:53,926 [Jill] We visited TLC headquarters, 322 00:18:54,594 --> 00:18:59,599 they had this picture of us on their wall and it was this tandem bike 323 00:18:59,682 --> 00:19:03,394 that they had taken a picture and then like photoshopped us all on one bike. 324 00:19:04,395 --> 00:19:06,439 We realized this is a big deal. 325 00:19:06,939 --> 00:19:10,234 Reality TV can sort of take a network 326 00:19:10,318 --> 00:19:13,863 that's not exactly a juggernaut in terms of performance 327 00:19:13,946 --> 00:19:15,656 and really give it new life. 328 00:19:16,157 --> 00:19:19,952 Other networks like Bravo, VH1, and MTV quickly 329 00:19:20,036 --> 00:19:23,414 learned these shows are relatively cheap to produce 330 00:19:23,497 --> 00:19:26,500 and at the same time, lots and lots of people consume them. 331 00:19:27,251 --> 00:19:31,422 My name is Danielle Lindemann. I am a professor of sociology. 332 00:19:31,505 --> 00:19:33,716 I am an evangelist for reality TV. 333 00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:36,302 [Jill] This is the beginning of Tater Tot Casserole. 334 00:19:36,385 --> 00:19:39,138 19 Kids and Counting is kind of the perfect reality show 335 00:19:39,221 --> 00:19:41,807 to teach us about why we like reality TV. 336 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:45,436 How do they make casserole for all these people? 337 00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:48,314 And if that's the biggest problem in an entire episode, 338 00:19:48,397 --> 00:19:50,691 there's something relaxing about that. 339 00:19:51,734 --> 00:19:56,447 Reality TV at its core, it's incredibly conservative. 340 00:19:56,530 --> 00:19:59,241 Your sister's going to jail, have a little compassion. 341 00:19:59,325 --> 00:20:02,286 [Danielle] The Kardashians like, yes, they have sex tapes. 342 00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:05,706 Like yes, they're really extreme in a lot of ways, 343 00:20:05,915 --> 00:20:08,084 but at the same time they're super conventional 344 00:20:08,167 --> 00:20:10,586 in terms of how they're performing their gender. 345 00:20:10,962 --> 00:20:12,463 I did not wake up like this. 346 00:20:12,546 --> 00:20:15,007 [Danielle] The Duggars also are performing gender 347 00:20:15,091 --> 00:20:19,220 in this way where the women do the cooking, women do the cleaning. 348 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,138 [interviewer] Do you believe that you are 349 00:20:21,222 --> 00:20:25,101 reinforcing gender stereotypes by having your girls do the cooking and cleaning? 350 00:20:25,184 --> 00:20:27,144 [Michelle] I think there are some gender aspects you 351 00:20:27,228 --> 00:20:30,773 just can't get around and that's not bad. I think that's a good thing. 352 00:20:30,856 --> 00:20:34,068 [Danielle] Some people are watching because that can be very comforting. 353 00:20:35,569 --> 00:20:39,782 It's hearkening back to some imagined pastime where things 354 00:20:39,865 --> 00:20:42,743 were simpler and roles were more clearly defined. 355 00:20:43,202 --> 00:20:46,288 It's these kind of modern day freak show programs 356 00:20:46,372 --> 00:20:52,920 that have built TLC, Discovery into this empire that it is today. 357 00:20:53,004 --> 00:20:58,843 And then the cash cows of the series were really these wedding and birth episodes, 358 00:20:58,926 --> 00:21:02,179 which were bringing in monster, monster ratings. 359 00:21:02,263 --> 00:21:07,351 But then as their popularity soars, as ratings soar, they keep producing kids. 360 00:21:07,435 --> 00:21:11,313 So in season four, Michelle gives birth to Josie. 361 00:21:11,397 --> 00:21:13,774 That was a big deal because she was medically fragile. 362 00:21:13,858 --> 00:21:15,484 [interviewer] Were you and Jim Bob surprised 363 00:21:15,568 --> 00:21:17,570 to find out that you were pregnant with your 19th? 364 00:21:17,778 --> 00:21:21,198 [Michelle] I thought maybe it might not happen. 365 00:21:21,657 --> 00:21:24,493 [Jim Bob] Michelle's blood pressure just kept going up and up and I knew it 366 00:21:24,577 --> 00:21:26,620 would be life threatening for her and the baby. 367 00:21:26,871 --> 00:21:28,998 The situation is fixing to change our lives… 368 00:21:33,335 --> 00:21:34,170 …forever. 369 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:40,718 But you know, we praise God when all the good things 370 00:21:40,801 --> 00:21:46,515 are happening and we're gonna praise God even through this difficult situation. 371 00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:50,144 There she is, Michelle, here she comes, oh my. 372 00:21:50,478 --> 00:21:54,482 [Danielle] And so all of this kind of feeds into this lifestyle. 373 00:21:54,565 --> 00:21:57,234 The women, girls are really like the engine, 374 00:21:57,318 --> 00:21:59,028 keeping it afloat, keeping it running. 375 00:22:01,113 --> 00:22:06,786 The Duggars were a big get for TLC. They helped to put the network on the map. 376 00:22:07,495 --> 00:22:09,789 Some might say that TLC went 377 00:22:09,872 --> 00:22:13,167 from being The Learning Channel to The Lurking Channel. 378 00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:16,045 We're not necessarily tuning in to learn. 379 00:22:16,128 --> 00:22:18,297 - [Big Ed screams] - [Big Ed laughs] 380 00:22:18,422 --> 00:22:21,133 We're kind of tuning in more for the train wreck. 381 00:22:21,592 --> 00:22:27,431 From these medical documentary shows to these more contemporary freak shows. 382 00:22:28,099 --> 00:22:30,059 [narrator] Julius' addiction to balloons 383 00:22:30,142 --> 00:22:33,312 started when he was hospitalized at just four years old. 384 00:22:33,771 --> 00:22:37,399 Discovery ultimately became a multibillion dollar company 385 00:22:37,483 --> 00:22:38,943 and now they own Warner Brothers. 386 00:22:39,026 --> 00:22:41,445 We're positioned to get 200 million homes, 387 00:22:41,529 --> 00:22:45,324 300 million homes 'cause we have all the content that people love. 388 00:22:45,407 --> 00:22:48,702 And so I think coming together, we're not just better together. 389 00:22:48,786 --> 00:22:50,704 I think we're the best media company in the world. 390 00:22:52,790 --> 00:22:54,375 [Jennifer] The Duggars became a beacon 391 00:22:54,458 --> 00:22:57,670 for the evangelical community, the fundamentalist community. 392 00:22:57,753 --> 00:23:00,381 And they finally saw themselves represented on TV. 393 00:23:00,965 --> 00:23:04,301 - We had had Christian programming. - Father, we just praise you. 394 00:23:04,802 --> 00:23:05,803 But never like this. 395 00:23:05,886 --> 00:23:08,639 I brought my ticket and I'm getting it signed by all of them. 396 00:23:08,722 --> 00:23:11,100 They have good core values and we love them. 397 00:23:11,183 --> 00:23:13,811 My name is Jennifer Sutphin and I run a YouTube channel 398 00:23:13,894 --> 00:23:18,566 called Fundie Fridays where I do my makeup while discussing Christian fundamentalism. 399 00:23:19,775 --> 00:23:24,155 A fundie is kind of a derogative term for a fundamentalist 400 00:23:24,238 --> 00:23:29,034 and it's the entire starting point for the Fundie Snark community, 401 00:23:29,118 --> 00:23:32,079 which is the camp that I fall into like, the Hate Watchers. 402 00:23:32,163 --> 00:23:33,998 The show has devolved more and more 403 00:23:34,081 --> 00:23:36,584 into just straight propaganda as time has gone on. 404 00:23:36,667 --> 00:23:39,461 But the Duggar Show is just so insanely popular 405 00:23:39,712 --> 00:23:44,383 that they doubled down and they started making a bunch of other shows just like it 406 00:23:44,633 --> 00:23:47,052 about Christian fundamentalist families. 407 00:23:47,136 --> 00:23:51,765 ♪ I've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart ♪ 408 00:23:52,308 --> 00:23:53,809 ♪ Down in my heart ♪ 409 00:23:53,893 --> 00:23:55,102 We prayed about it and we thought, 410 00:23:55,186 --> 00:23:57,855 well maybe this is an opportunity to share with the world 411 00:23:57,938 --> 00:24:00,149 that children are a blessing and a gift from God. 412 00:24:00,232 --> 00:24:02,276 And so we went back to 'em and we said, 413 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,821 "We will do this documentary with you as long as you don't edit out our faith." 414 00:24:07,114 --> 00:24:11,035 [Jim Holt] It was March of 1980, I was 15. Jim Bob was 14 at the time. 415 00:24:11,869 --> 00:24:14,455 My family was pretty dysfunctional. I had a stepfather that was pretty rough. 416 00:24:14,538 --> 00:24:18,834 I had a few stepfathers that were pretty rough on my mom 417 00:24:18,918 --> 00:24:20,336 and then pretty rough on me. 418 00:24:20,419 --> 00:24:22,087 Jim Bob said I was like the brother he always wanted 419 00:24:22,171 --> 00:24:24,006 and his mother called me like a own son. 420 00:24:25,674 --> 00:24:28,302 But Jim Bob had problems too. 421 00:24:28,469 --> 00:24:31,388 [Jim Bob] I grew up in a situation where sometimes we had electricity shut off. 422 00:24:31,472 --> 00:24:33,307 At one point we had our house foreclosed on. 423 00:24:33,390 --> 00:24:35,768 My dad did not really have a spiritual focus in life. 424 00:24:35,851 --> 00:24:37,478 It caused a lot of problems in our family. 425 00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:40,689 The church said, "We're gonna go to this seminar. 426 00:24:40,773 --> 00:24:42,316 Y'all want to go? We'll drive you." 427 00:24:42,691 --> 00:24:43,984 Jim Bob and I went together. 428 00:24:44,610 --> 00:24:46,820 That was our first time seeing Bill Gothard. 429 00:24:49,698 --> 00:24:54,119 [narrator] The Basic Seminar, a ministry of the Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts. 430 00:24:54,286 --> 00:24:56,330 As a high schooler, Bill Gothard was concerned 431 00:24:56,413 --> 00:24:59,792 about the wrong decisions that many of his classmates were making. 432 00:24:59,959 --> 00:25:02,920 The Basic Seminar offers lasting answers for: 433 00:25:03,170 --> 00:25:07,424 resolving family conflicts, overcoming feelings of inferiority, 434 00:25:07,841 --> 00:25:13,430 removing guilt and bitterness, conquering destructive habits, establishing marriage… 435 00:25:13,555 --> 00:25:15,641 [drowning applause] 436 00:25:15,724 --> 00:25:21,105 Do you have a sig-- a vision for what you could do 437 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,777 for the kingdom of the Lord that is worth you giving your life for? 438 00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:30,197 If you have nothing worth dying for, you have nothing worth living for. 439 00:25:30,281 --> 00:25:33,284 Here's another way of putting it. When you get to the end of your life, 440 00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:35,786 what do you wanna be able to look back and say, 441 00:25:35,869 --> 00:25:38,580 this is what God accomplished through my life. 442 00:25:39,248 --> 00:25:42,918 Our lives were falling apart around us. Our kids were rebelling. 443 00:25:43,002 --> 00:25:46,171 So this institute in Basic Youth Conflict saved my life. 444 00:25:46,255 --> 00:25:48,173 I really can honestly truly say that. 445 00:25:48,257 --> 00:25:52,052 That first night that Mr. Gothard spoke, I just wept. 446 00:25:52,886 --> 00:25:55,931 It was some of the most revolutionary things I'd heard outta scripture. 447 00:25:56,015 --> 00:25:59,268 It was about, you know, how to love God more and how to show Him you love more. 448 00:25:59,351 --> 00:26:00,311 'Cause that's the greatest commandment, 449 00:26:00,394 --> 00:26:01,937 is love God with everything that you have, right? 450 00:26:02,021 --> 00:26:04,064 It was like one of the best things I'd ever heard in my life. 451 00:26:04,148 --> 00:26:05,482 I thought it was fantastic. 452 00:26:05,566 --> 00:26:07,276 [audience applauds] 453 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,445 Most of the people in the Institute thought Bill Gothard 454 00:26:09,528 --> 00:26:12,156 hung the moon and Jim Bob was one of 'em. 455 00:26:13,866 --> 00:26:17,369 We have for every one of you the answer 456 00:26:17,453 --> 00:26:20,956 on how to conquer any habit you have. 457 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,708 [audience applauds] 458 00:26:22,791 --> 00:26:26,503 [Brooke] Growing up, my family attended Bill Gothard's seminar, 459 00:26:26,587 --> 00:26:28,922 the same program as the Duggars. 460 00:26:30,341 --> 00:26:32,051 My name is Brooke Arnold. 461 00:26:32,384 --> 00:26:35,387 I had really hesitated to talk to you guys because to me, 462 00:26:35,471 --> 00:26:38,849 the whole Bill Gothard thing was this like hornets' nest 463 00:26:39,266 --> 00:26:41,727 that didn't need to be kicked right now. [laughing] 464 00:26:41,810 --> 00:26:43,979 [interviewer] What do you know about Institute in Basic Life Principles? 465 00:26:44,104 --> 00:26:46,482 [Brooke laughs] 466 00:26:46,565 --> 00:26:49,151 How long do you have? [laughs] 467 00:26:51,528 --> 00:26:53,280 [narrator] Welcome to the Children's Institute 468 00:26:53,364 --> 00:26:55,783 of the Seminar and Basic Life Principles. 469 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,452 We learn about authority and the importance 470 00:26:58,535 --> 00:27:02,122 of obeying the spoken as well as the unspoken wishes 471 00:27:02,206 --> 00:27:04,333 of those who are responsible for us. 472 00:27:04,416 --> 00:27:06,460 [Brooke] To me, you know, Bill Gothard came 473 00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:11,632 to loom over my life, almost mythologically, and I just felt like there 474 00:27:11,715 --> 00:27:14,635 was something important I needed to find out. 475 00:27:15,511 --> 00:27:18,263 I felt like the more that I understood about Bill Gothard, 476 00:27:18,347 --> 00:27:20,140 the more I would understand myself. 477 00:27:21,392 --> 00:27:24,770 Bill Gothard, Senior was a minister. 478 00:27:24,937 --> 00:27:28,816 He was actually head of the Gideons Association. 479 00:27:28,899 --> 00:27:32,778 The little Bible that you find in every hotel room, 480 00:27:32,903 --> 00:27:34,988 that's there because of the Gideons. 481 00:27:35,322 --> 00:27:40,077 So, Bill Gothard kind of comes from this evangelical dynasty 482 00:27:40,327 --> 00:27:42,663 and he ended up going to Wheaton College, 483 00:27:42,746 --> 00:27:45,833 which is basically the Harvard for fundamentalists. 484 00:27:47,167 --> 00:27:50,254 [Kristin] In 1961, Bill Gothard 485 00:27:50,629 --> 00:27:54,383 establishes these local workshops on how to parent, 486 00:27:54,466 --> 00:27:58,804 how to raise your kids, how to discipline. They teach the prosperity gospel. 487 00:27:59,179 --> 00:28:01,557 Obey God, and God's going to bless you. 488 00:28:01,932 --> 00:28:04,560 People were getting this and then taking it 489 00:28:04,643 --> 00:28:07,396 into their communities, taking it into their churches. 490 00:28:07,813 --> 00:28:10,899 [Brooke] In the late '60s, people were really scared at that time, 491 00:28:10,983 --> 00:28:15,696 you know, there was huge social, cultural, political, economic shifts happening. 492 00:28:16,029 --> 00:28:17,865 [Kristin] You have the civil rights movement, 493 00:28:18,115 --> 00:28:22,411 you have the women's rights movement, you had student protestors. 494 00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:25,747 People were wondering, you know, is it Christian to have long hair? 495 00:28:25,831 --> 00:28:29,418 Is it Christian to listen to rock and roll? Is it Christian to watch television? 496 00:28:29,877 --> 00:28:32,212 Bill Gothard says, you don't have to be worried 497 00:28:32,463 --> 00:28:34,006 about what the right thing to do is 498 00:28:34,089 --> 00:28:38,051 because I know the right thing to do about everything. 499 00:28:38,427 --> 00:28:42,306 The simplicity of his program was really appealing 500 00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:46,435 to people who were kind of living in these moments of extreme upheaval. 501 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,271 [majestic music] 502 00:28:50,814 --> 00:28:55,402 IBLP is the abbreviation for the Institute in Basic Life Principles. 503 00:28:55,486 --> 00:28:58,238 - IBLP. - IBLP Movement, thought process. 504 00:28:58,405 --> 00:29:01,492 - I-- IBLP. Okay. - I said, IBLP right. 505 00:29:01,575 --> 00:29:03,785 - IBLP. - The IBLP. 506 00:29:03,869 --> 00:29:05,704 - The IBLP. - IBLP. 507 00:29:05,787 --> 00:29:09,708 [Brooke] Bill Gothard has never passed up an opportunity to use an acronym. 508 00:29:11,293 --> 00:29:15,839 [Bill Gothard] This matter of authority is so important. 509 00:29:17,216 --> 00:29:22,137 [Brooke] Bill Gothard's teachings. There's seven non-optional Basic Principles, 510 00:29:22,221 --> 00:29:25,891 but the biggest feature of Gothardism is the authority teaching. 511 00:29:26,225 --> 00:29:28,185 Because we are living in a day 512 00:29:29,311 --> 00:29:32,564 in which we wanna have equal authority. 513 00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:36,985 Sons and daughters wanna be on equal level with parents. 514 00:29:37,653 --> 00:29:39,780 Citizens, equal level with government. 515 00:29:40,239 --> 00:29:45,786 I mean, the whole attitude of our day is equal authority, 516 00:29:46,411 --> 00:29:50,499 but God didn't structure your life that way and it doesn't work that way. 517 00:29:51,667 --> 00:29:54,044 As long as we're under these umbrellas of protection, 518 00:29:54,294 --> 00:29:57,130 Satan cannot get through with destructive temptations. 519 00:29:58,257 --> 00:30:00,133 [Jim Holt] There's a lot of good people in IBLP. 520 00:30:00,342 --> 00:30:03,554 They go into it thinking, I don't want my child to get in trouble. 521 00:30:03,637 --> 00:30:06,431 I don't want them to go down some of the path and have some of the guilt of some 522 00:30:06,515 --> 00:30:07,891 of the sins that we've committed. 523 00:30:08,475 --> 00:30:11,728 And so, they go into it thinking this is a better life. 524 00:30:12,104 --> 00:30:16,775 I had gotten to go to The Basic Seminar in high school. 525 00:30:16,858 --> 00:30:20,112 I think it was about 1980. Right after we got married, Michelle got to go 526 00:30:20,195 --> 00:30:23,073 to The Basic Seminar and that was one of the best things that happened to us. 527 00:30:23,949 --> 00:30:28,036 [Kristin] Jim Bob Duggar is influenced by Gothard's teachings 528 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,959 including that of this Quiverfull idea of having as many children as possible. 529 00:30:34,167 --> 00:30:36,587 People say, well, how many children should you have? 530 00:30:38,297 --> 00:30:41,592 The answer is, how many blessings of God. 531 00:30:42,175 --> 00:30:43,969 [Kristin] Within the Quiverfull movement, 532 00:30:44,052 --> 00:30:48,599 to be faithful Christians, one needs to open themselves 533 00:30:48,682 --> 00:30:51,602 to as many children as God will give them. 534 00:30:51,852 --> 00:30:53,520 Well, I mean the source of it is from the Bible. 535 00:30:53,604 --> 00:30:55,272 So whoever took it, took it and ran with it. 536 00:30:55,355 --> 00:30:58,734 As arrows in the hand of a mighty man, so are children of one's youth. 537 00:30:58,817 --> 00:31:01,653 [kids] So are children of the youth. 538 00:31:02,613 --> 00:31:08,243 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them. 539 00:31:08,327 --> 00:31:09,411 [audience applauds] 540 00:31:09,536 --> 00:31:13,624 [Michelle] Overpopulation is really a myth. 541 00:31:13,707 --> 00:31:17,544 The whole world population could fit into the city limits of Jacksonville, Florida. 542 00:31:17,919 --> 00:31:19,713 We have two children, a boy and a girl. 543 00:31:22,049 --> 00:31:23,634 We have 11 children. 544 00:31:23,717 --> 00:31:25,469 [Jim Holt] According to the IBLP, 545 00:31:25,552 --> 00:31:28,305 the more children you have, the more blessed by God you are. 546 00:31:28,388 --> 00:31:30,974 - Good morning, everybody. - [Duggars] Good morning! 547 00:31:31,058 --> 00:31:33,477 Michelle, I'm almost a little afraid to ask. 548 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,312 I understand you've got a big announcement this morning? 549 00:31:35,395 --> 00:31:39,941 We are expecting our 20th child, yes! 550 00:31:40,025 --> 00:31:42,194 And just thrilled. 551 00:31:42,903 --> 00:31:44,071 [Amy] Be fruitful and multiply. 552 00:31:44,154 --> 00:31:48,158 That's what I heard when I was 12, when I was eight. 553 00:31:48,241 --> 00:31:49,910 - That is crazy to me. - When I was… 554 00:31:50,035 --> 00:31:51,411 [dramatic music] 555 00:31:51,578 --> 00:31:53,455 [doctor] I don't see a heartbeat. 556 00:31:54,039 --> 00:31:55,666 You don't see a heartbeat? 557 00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:57,751 Oh… 558 00:31:57,834 --> 00:31:59,670 [Jim Bob] Both of our hearts just sank. 559 00:32:00,671 --> 00:32:04,633 There was no heartbeat and we just, we both were just devastated. 560 00:32:07,219 --> 00:32:10,931 [Amy] You know, with all of the babies and with the popularity of the show, 561 00:32:11,014 --> 00:32:14,393 they literally became the poster child for IBLP. 562 00:32:14,476 --> 00:32:17,437 If you have not gone through The Basic Seminar, 563 00:32:17,813 --> 00:32:19,356 I highly recommend it. 564 00:32:20,816 --> 00:32:25,696 [Brooke] Bill Gothard was traveling around playing to huge coliseums of people. 565 00:32:26,154 --> 00:32:29,032 The Institute estimates that over 2 million people 566 00:32:29,116 --> 00:32:31,868 have attended Bill Gothard's seminars. 567 00:32:31,952 --> 00:32:33,286 He was a rockstar. 568 00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:35,455 [dramatic music] 569 00:32:35,872 --> 00:32:38,959 [Josh Pease] In an age in which Christian institutions 570 00:32:39,042 --> 00:32:42,963 and authority was slipping, here's a guy drawing crowds. 571 00:32:44,965 --> 00:32:47,926 For people like the Duggars, it felt like winning. 572 00:32:49,428 --> 00:32:51,388 So my name is Josh Pease. 573 00:32:51,596 --> 00:32:54,850 And several years ago now, I wrote an article 574 00:32:54,933 --> 00:32:59,855 for the New Republic about Bill Gothard, IBLP, and that whole world. 575 00:33:00,647 --> 00:33:02,232 [narrator] The Advanced Training Institute 576 00:33:02,399 --> 00:33:05,819 is biblically centered, parent supervised, and home based. 577 00:33:06,737 --> 00:33:11,324 [Josh Pease] In 1984, Bill Gothard launches the Advanced Training Institute, 578 00:33:11,408 --> 00:33:14,411 a homeschool curriculum that is basically 579 00:33:14,494 --> 00:33:16,496 taking all of these things he had been teaching 580 00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:21,334 in these seminars and then turning it into a curriculum for families. 581 00:33:21,752 --> 00:33:26,673 The resources that at ATI has are… are what we needed. 582 00:33:26,757 --> 00:33:31,428 I couldn't do it, I don't think, alone without the resources there. 583 00:33:31,511 --> 00:33:32,971 [Jill] Growing up, it was kind of the idea 584 00:33:33,054 --> 00:33:37,267 that like they wanted to protect us from the world. 585 00:33:37,642 --> 00:33:42,272 People go into the IBLP group and all of these conferences and stuff 586 00:33:42,355 --> 00:33:44,983 because it's fun and exciting and community. 587 00:33:45,484 --> 00:33:47,819 This is the key. They're all about the keys to success, 588 00:33:47,903 --> 00:33:49,070 the key to that, key to this. 589 00:33:49,154 --> 00:33:52,073 The key that's gonna like give us what we need 590 00:33:52,157 --> 00:33:54,534 to be good parents and to homeschool our kids and make sure, 591 00:33:54,618 --> 00:33:56,870 make sure that our kids turn out right. 592 00:33:58,705 --> 00:34:03,335 It's very appealing when you see an organization that promises that to you. 593 00:34:03,418 --> 00:34:05,962 [audience applauds] 594 00:34:06,213 --> 00:34:09,173 [dramatic music] 595 00:34:09,382 --> 00:34:12,803 [Jennifer] The Duggars were definitely used as a recruiting tool for IBLP. 596 00:34:12,885 --> 00:34:17,474 God has opened up a lot of ministry opportunities for our family. 597 00:34:17,557 --> 00:34:21,519 It's not a show. It's really not, it's our life, it really is. 598 00:34:22,394 --> 00:34:25,106 [Jennifer] Christian fundamentalism was largely underground. 599 00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:27,567 They had their own schools, their own entertainment, 600 00:34:27,651 --> 00:34:29,318 their own everything, really. 601 00:34:29,402 --> 00:34:32,364 They had no reason to interact with secular culture. 602 00:34:32,780 --> 00:34:37,077 And then the Duggars came around and it suddenly was mainstream. 603 00:34:37,410 --> 00:34:39,996 [narrator] Tom Cruise, Scientologist, 604 00:34:41,789 --> 00:34:44,416 I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Scientologist. 605 00:34:44,501 --> 00:34:46,294 [Josh Pease] Scientology, sort of the gateway 606 00:34:46,378 --> 00:34:51,132 for most people into that was Tom Cruise. It kind of legitimized Scientology. 607 00:34:51,383 --> 00:34:54,469 And in a lot of ways, that's exactly what the Duggars were for Bill Gothard. 608 00:34:54,885 --> 00:34:57,639 Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar, Duggar. 609 00:34:57,722 --> 00:35:00,475 [reporter] Michelle and Jim Bob have now written their second book. 610 00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:02,477 [woman] We've never had this many people in our store ever. 611 00:35:02,561 --> 00:35:06,898 [Michelle] The kids have been on TV for 10 years, but we never expected our family 612 00:35:06,982 --> 00:35:09,609 to receive so much attention everywhere we go. 613 00:35:09,693 --> 00:35:11,695 - Are these all your kids? - 18, yes. 614 00:35:12,112 --> 00:35:13,113 My name is Joshua Duggar. 615 00:35:13,196 --> 00:35:15,782 [Kristin] All of the Duggar children were steeped 616 00:35:15,866 --> 00:35:19,828 in Gothard's teachings and Josh Duggar was no exception. 617 00:35:20,871 --> 00:35:25,166 And as he comes of age, he kind of steps into his own place in this world. 618 00:35:26,209 --> 00:35:28,545 His star just continues to rise. 619 00:35:30,505 --> 00:35:32,090 - We have… - Hello. 620 00:35:32,173 --> 00:35:33,383 How are you? 621 00:35:33,466 --> 00:35:36,678 [Meredith] And Josh and Anna are with us in the studio. Cut in. 622 00:35:36,803 --> 00:35:38,263 - Cut in? - [Meredith] Mhm-hmm. Any piece. 623 00:35:38,346 --> 00:35:39,556 [drum roll] 624 00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:42,142 - Okay, now flip it over. - Wow. 625 00:35:42,601 --> 00:35:44,644 - [Meredith] Do you know what that means? - I think that means it's a girl. 626 00:35:44,978 --> 00:35:47,981 The pink is for a girl! You got a girl! 627 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,444 We have decided to accept that that job in DC. 628 00:35:53,653 --> 00:35:56,907 [Danielle] It's not unusual or unexpected that someone who's like the golden boy 629 00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:59,618 on a reality TV show would also want to go into politics. 630 00:35:59,701 --> 00:36:01,661 ♪ This land is your land ♪ 631 00:36:01,745 --> 00:36:03,496 ♪ This land is my land ♪ 632 00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:04,623 Hello, I'm Josh Duggar. 633 00:36:04,915 --> 00:36:07,584 [narrator] Two years ago, Josh accepted a high profile job 634 00:36:07,667 --> 00:36:12,005 with the Family Research Council, a deeply conservative lobbying group devoted 635 00:36:12,088 --> 00:36:14,007 to promoting a Christian worldview. 636 00:36:14,382 --> 00:36:18,094 [Deanna] You know, I was excited for them to get their own show. 637 00:36:18,178 --> 00:36:20,388 I felt like it was a good opportunity for them. 638 00:36:20,472 --> 00:36:22,223 [audience applauds] 639 00:36:22,349 --> 00:36:23,850 But I didn't know everything. 640 00:36:27,062 --> 00:36:30,607 I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. 641 00:36:30,690 --> 00:36:32,776 Reality TV family in free fall. 642 00:36:33,109 --> 00:36:35,445 [Megyn] A bombshell May 19th, 2015. 643 00:36:35,695 --> 00:36:37,489 [reporter] Shocking accusations come to light 644 00:36:37,572 --> 00:36:41,284 that the eldest Duggar child sexually abused children. 645 00:36:41,368 --> 00:36:43,995 [reporter] After an anonymous letter to the Oprah Winfrey Show, 646 00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:46,665 Oprah's team called the Child Abuse Hotline 647 00:36:46,748 --> 00:36:48,458 and police started asking questions. 648 00:36:48,541 --> 00:36:51,127 [reporter] Stunning, even by reality TV standards, 649 00:36:51,211 --> 00:36:53,880 the news came to light when InTouch Magazine 650 00:36:53,964 --> 00:36:58,051 obtained a decade old police report detailing Josh's alleged molestation. 651 00:36:58,176 --> 00:37:01,221 [Megyn] It reveals that Josh, while 14 or 15 years old, 652 00:37:01,304 --> 00:37:06,518 forcibly touched at least five girls in 2002 and 2003. 653 00:37:06,601 --> 00:37:08,520 [reporter] Some are speculating the unnamed victims 654 00:37:08,603 --> 00:37:10,355 are some of Josh's sisters. 655 00:37:10,438 --> 00:37:12,816 [tense music] 656 00:37:14,192 --> 00:37:16,152 [interviewer] Do you remember when he was sent away? 657 00:37:18,321 --> 00:37:19,197 Yeah. 658 00:37:19,698 --> 00:37:20,532 Only what you're comfortable with. 659 00:37:20,615 --> 00:37:24,494 I don't know, I just, I kind of don't really wanna talk about all that, um… 660 00:37:26,121 --> 00:37:27,205 Just because like… 661 00:37:27,288 --> 00:37:28,581 We wish nobody had ever found out about any of that. 662 00:37:28,665 --> 00:37:31,209 Yeah, it's really hard for me because I'm just like… 663 00:37:32,919 --> 00:37:34,796 There were certain things that like she shared with me 664 00:37:34,879 --> 00:37:37,257 in confidence because we were a married couple that, 665 00:37:37,966 --> 00:37:40,677 with all of our hopes would remain confident between us 666 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,179 until we both died and nobody would ever find out about it. 667 00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:50,270 This is something that like is heavily guarded and… 668 00:37:50,353 --> 00:37:52,522 I sho-- And nobody should have ever known about it. 669 00:37:52,605 --> 00:37:55,734 So I don't like talking about it, um… 670 00:37:56,443 --> 00:37:59,195 The moment that the reports, everything was released, 671 00:37:59,279 --> 00:38:00,989 that was the moment it was public. 672 00:38:03,074 --> 00:38:05,493 [interviewer] When did you first find out about Josh? 673 00:38:12,584 --> 00:38:16,463 Well, how deep do we go? 'Cause that's a rabbit hole that's… man. 674 00:38:17,255 --> 00:38:18,506 - It's really twisted. - Um… 675 00:38:20,675 --> 00:38:22,635 [Bobye] Um, we had known him from a baby, you know, 676 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,139 and he was our first daughter's boyfriend. 677 00:38:26,681 --> 00:38:28,099 [Jim Holt] And Josh says something like, 678 00:38:28,224 --> 00:38:31,436 "I'd like to know if I'd be able to court Kaeleigh for the purpose of marriage." 679 00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:32,812 And we said yes. 680 00:38:35,356 --> 00:38:37,859 [narrator] With lead son Josh, age 16, 681 00:38:38,068 --> 00:38:40,987 how will the Duggars handle the delicate issue of dating? 682 00:38:41,071 --> 00:38:42,572 [Josh Duggar] I think that if you're gonna give your heart away, 683 00:38:42,655 --> 00:38:45,075 you need to be giving it to someone who's gonna love you 684 00:38:45,158 --> 00:38:47,994 and care about you and not someone who's gonna simply 685 00:38:48,078 --> 00:38:50,080 get carried away with their emotions. 686 00:38:51,664 --> 00:38:55,710 [Jim Holt] So, March 30th, 2003, when we found out, 687 00:38:56,086 --> 00:38:58,254 I went out to the field and just bawled. 688 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,426 What Jim Bob had said to us was, Josh had has gotten into some trouble. 689 00:39:03,676 --> 00:39:06,262 You know, he is touched his sisters inappropriately. 690 00:39:06,346 --> 00:39:08,890 That was their big thing that they would say, is it? 691 00:39:08,973 --> 00:39:11,184 Yeah, he had said one time, he molested his sisters. 692 00:39:11,267 --> 00:39:13,520 And Michelle said, "Don't you say that again." 693 00:39:13,853 --> 00:39:15,897 He apparently been doing it since he was 12, 694 00:39:16,397 --> 00:39:18,316 but we found out about it when he was 15. 695 00:39:18,733 --> 00:39:20,193 So, when were you gonna tell us? 696 00:39:20,527 --> 00:39:24,114 And Michelle said, "We weren't gonna have them tell you guys at all. 697 00:39:24,322 --> 00:39:26,950 We were gonna have Josh confess to Kaeleigh once they were married." 698 00:39:27,408 --> 00:39:28,618 And so I asked Jim Bob, I said, 699 00:39:28,701 --> 00:39:30,912 "So are you basically saying you were kinda using my daughter 700 00:39:30,995 --> 00:39:33,373 as like a carrot to get him to behave the right way?" 701 00:39:33,456 --> 00:39:35,375 And he goes, "Well, yeah, kind of." 702 00:39:36,543 --> 00:39:40,797 Jim Bob had written a bill that created a sex offender website. 703 00:39:40,964 --> 00:39:42,215 I confronted him, I said, "Jim Bob, 704 00:39:42,298 --> 00:39:43,633 according to your own bill that you've written 705 00:39:43,716 --> 00:39:46,678 and what you've told me, your son should be on it. 706 00:39:46,761 --> 00:39:47,887 He needs to make it right with the law 707 00:39:47,971 --> 00:39:51,724 because he violated the law and he needs to turn himself in." 708 00:39:52,100 --> 00:39:54,727 He's like, "I'm getting ready to take Josh in. Would you wanna go?" 709 00:39:54,811 --> 00:39:56,980 I said, "Oh, yeah." So I went right with him. 710 00:39:57,063 --> 00:39:58,481 We met at the state trooper's office. 711 00:39:58,565 --> 00:40:01,985 The state trooper sat down and we told him the story. 712 00:40:02,068 --> 00:40:05,697 Josh told him what we thought at the time was everything that he had done. 713 00:40:06,030 --> 00:40:08,825 He goes, "I'm gonna let you go this time." He said, "But if you do it again, 714 00:40:08,908 --> 00:40:10,201 I'm really gonna come down hard on you." 715 00:40:10,285 --> 00:40:13,204 Well, we found out later that this guy was a friend of Jim Bob's. 716 00:40:13,580 --> 00:40:17,834 [Bobye] Jim was considering, "What should I do? We gotta get him outta the house. 717 00:40:18,001 --> 00:40:20,545 Where should we go? Where should we take him?" 718 00:40:21,212 --> 00:40:24,299 [Jim Holt] He took him to Bill Gothard's facility down in Little Rock. 719 00:40:24,382 --> 00:40:28,303 [Bobye] Which was an IBLP facility for troubled boys. 720 00:40:30,555 --> 00:40:33,016 [Amy] I was like, "Where's Josh? Where is he?" 721 00:40:33,099 --> 00:40:38,646 And they're like, "Oh, he is helping families build homes at a camp." 722 00:40:39,147 --> 00:40:40,481 And I was like, "Oh." 723 00:40:40,565 --> 00:40:42,358 And they're like, "Yeah, he's a good guy like that." 724 00:40:42,442 --> 00:40:43,818 You just knew something was off. 725 00:40:44,777 --> 00:40:48,406 Josh was away and they were gonna do this Parent Magazine interview. 726 00:40:48,656 --> 00:40:49,490 [producer] The one that led to their show? 727 00:40:49,574 --> 00:40:50,408 Yeah. 728 00:40:50,491 --> 00:40:54,746 [Jim Holt] And I was asking Jim Bob, "What are you going to tell them?" 729 00:40:55,455 --> 00:40:58,249 He said, "Well, we're gonna tell them that Josh is down there ministering." 730 00:40:58,333 --> 00:41:01,336 And I said, "Jim Bob, you know that's not true." 731 00:41:01,419 --> 00:41:02,962 So he actually just checked him out. 732 00:41:03,046 --> 00:41:04,756 - Yeah, he didn't tell them. - And brought him back. 733 00:41:04,839 --> 00:41:07,091 He brought him back and he said he wanted him there for his birthday. 734 00:41:07,175 --> 00:41:08,635 It was right before Jim Bob's birthday. 735 00:41:08,718 --> 00:41:11,179 - They didn't turn him in. - Or like make a report. 736 00:41:11,262 --> 00:41:13,640 They didn't write a report, they didn't do anything. 737 00:41:15,141 --> 00:41:16,434 [Jim Holt] I said, "It doesn't matter if you're the best 738 00:41:16,517 --> 00:41:17,894 Christian family to ever live. 739 00:41:18,186 --> 00:41:21,481 If somebody finds out about this 20 years down the road, they will eat you alive." 740 00:41:22,065 --> 00:41:24,525 You know, it wasn't a blessing to Josh, I'll tell you that. 741 00:41:24,609 --> 00:41:27,695 No, a curse, it was a curse to Josh. 742 00:41:29,447 --> 00:41:32,867 [Amy] It breaks my heart to think about my sweet cousins 743 00:41:35,161 --> 00:41:37,121 and anyone else in the IBLP. 744 00:41:37,205 --> 00:41:38,289 [dramatic music] 745 00:41:38,373 --> 00:41:42,627 TLC created a PR show for Gothard's teachings. 746 00:41:44,087 --> 00:41:46,130 [Jennifer] This is much bigger than the Duggars. 747 00:41:46,214 --> 00:41:47,757 There are a lot of other people who are 748 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,676 doing the same thing who haven't been caught. 749 00:41:50,718 --> 00:41:52,720 [Tara] This isn't the first time I've heard about this happening 750 00:41:52,804 --> 00:41:55,139 within this IBLP community. 751 00:41:55,682 --> 00:42:00,979 I look at Bill Gothard himself and what he has been accused of. 752 00:42:02,772 --> 00:42:05,066 So much of the focus has been specifically on the Duggars 753 00:42:05,316 --> 00:42:07,151 and not on The Institute itself. 754 00:42:07,235 --> 00:42:10,530 The Institute raises little predators. 755 00:42:11,364 --> 00:42:14,117 [Bill Gothard] We're all proud of these mothers, fathers 756 00:42:14,284 --> 00:42:19,455 who obeyed the Lord in bringing more sons and daughters into the world. 757 00:42:19,664 --> 00:42:21,165 [audience applauds] 758 00:42:21,541 --> 00:42:25,878 [Deanna] There's been so many people that have been hurt by this so called ministry. 759 00:42:27,463 --> 00:42:31,801 [Tara] People look at Josh Duggar and they see a monster. 760 00:42:34,387 --> 00:42:38,391 But, monsters are created. 761 00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:41,811 [Chad] At this point, you know, I've pretty much burned every bridge 762 00:42:41,894 --> 00:42:44,605 in my family just by being here, but whatever. [laughing] 763 00:42:46,816 --> 00:42:49,861 [Tara] Being a homeschool kid, like you can spot 'em a mile away. 764 00:42:49,944 --> 00:42:52,822 [Brooke] Bill Gothard promised that his homeschool program 765 00:42:52,905 --> 00:42:57,910 would be the equivalent of a prelaw degree and a premedical degree. 766 00:42:58,036 --> 00:43:01,247 [Jim Bob] We teach our children that evolution is totally unscientific. 767 00:43:01,331 --> 00:43:05,460 When I first started watching the Duggars, everyone is very meek. 768 00:43:05,585 --> 00:43:09,505 [Michelle] Obey mama, sit really still, look at me with big old smiles. 769 00:43:09,839 --> 00:43:13,760 But they don't show how you get to the calmness. 770 00:43:13,843 --> 00:43:17,055 [interviewer] Did you see your cousins being punished with rods? 771 00:43:17,597 --> 00:43:20,683 [Lara] The audacity of Jim Bob Duggar to say, 772 00:43:20,767 --> 00:43:23,102 "I can bring a camera crew in here for years on end 773 00:43:23,186 --> 00:43:24,937 and nobody's gonna find out how we live." 774 00:43:25,021 --> 00:43:27,523 [reporter] Do you ever worry that the treatment didn't work? 775 00:43:27,607 --> 00:43:29,067 No, Josh was a changed person. 776 00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:30,193 A lot of abuse happened. 777 00:43:30,276 --> 00:43:32,070 [man] Fear was a huge component. 778 00:43:32,362 --> 00:43:34,822 I would dream about being burned alive. 779 00:43:34,906 --> 00:43:36,866 [Brooke] Bill Gothard taught that the creator 780 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,118 of Cabbage Patch dolls was a warlock. 781 00:43:39,452 --> 00:43:41,454 This is what Gothard wants, this is what God wants. 782 00:43:41,996 --> 00:43:45,416 [woman] Everything about that world sets you up to be the perfect victim. 783 00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:51,172 [Jill] I just hope and pray that this never happens to anyone else ever again. 784 00:43:52,215 --> 00:43:55,093 [dramatic music]