1 00:00:11,764 --> 00:00:14,266 (tense music) 2 00:00:17,728 --> 00:00:21,648 [Reporter 1] A bombshell as a dark family secret explodes out into the open. 3 00:00:21,815 --> 00:00:23,567 [Reporter 2] Josh Duggar, the family's eldest, 4 00:00:23,734 --> 00:00:26,987 was accused of repeatedly molesting five underage girls. 5 00:00:27,154 --> 00:00:31,450 [Reporter 3] Some of them include his own siblings. 6 00:00:31,617 --> 00:00:36,079 [Reporter 2] Trooper Joseph Hutchens gave Josh a very stern talk. 7 00:00:36,246 --> 00:00:41,960 Hutchens, by the way, is now serving 56 years in prison for child pornography. 8 00:00:42,419 --> 00:00:43,504 - It's hard to sweep this under the rug. - Mhm. 9 00:00:43,670 --> 00:00:47,508 I mean a lot of people are feeling, "Hey, they weren't being really truthful to us." 10 00:00:49,468 --> 00:00:50,344 [Derick] I honestly (Jill sniffles) 11 00:00:50,511 --> 00:00:53,722 She called me crying whenever all this came up. No one knew any of this. 12 00:00:54,139 --> 00:00:56,600 We were engaged, and I had no idea that this had happened. 13 00:00:56,767 --> 00:00:59,061 Thanks. (sniffles) 14 00:00:59,228 --> 00:01:06,318 [Deanna] When I learned of what happened with my nieces, I broke down and cried, 15 00:01:06,693 --> 00:01:08,737 and I couldn't even be there for them, 16 00:01:08,904 --> 00:01:14,785 because it was hush hush, and nobody told me the truth. 17 00:01:14,952 --> 00:01:18,872 [Jill] My dad and the producers and people, they would talk about it. 18 00:01:19,039 --> 00:01:22,960 There was an urgency to figure out how the show was gonna be handled 19 00:01:23,126 --> 00:01:26,713 in the wake of 2015 events. 20 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,174 As far as recovery and damage control, 21 00:01:29,341 --> 00:01:33,762 you just feel like the burden, and the weight falls on you to help, 22 00:01:34,221 --> 00:01:35,806 'cause you're the only one who can. 23 00:01:37,933 --> 00:01:41,019 (tense music continues) 24 00:01:48,235 --> 00:01:49,987 Tonight for the very first time, 25 00:01:50,153 --> 00:01:53,782 the family that became famous for their conservative Christian values, 26 00:01:53,949 --> 00:01:56,994 and their 19 children, speak out. 27 00:01:57,159 --> 00:02:01,039 Take us back to 2002. How did you first learn that there was a problem with Josh? 28 00:02:01,415 --> 00:02:04,585 He was just curious about girls, and he had gone in, 29 00:02:04,751 --> 00:02:07,588 and just basically touched them over their clothes while they were sleeping. 30 00:02:07,754 --> 00:02:09,673 - They didn't even know he had done it. - Mhm. 31 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,592 [Jim Holt] I don't remember that's the way that happened. 32 00:02:11,758 --> 00:02:14,720 He wasn't really honest totally in that interview. 33 00:02:14,887 --> 00:02:18,765 And that thing about sending Josh in the IBLP facility wasn't true. 34 00:02:19,182 --> 00:02:22,227 Did you ever worry that the treatment didn't work, 35 00:02:22,394 --> 00:02:24,479 especially with so many young children in the house? 36 00:02:26,481 --> 00:02:28,525 No, no. Josh was a changed person. 37 00:02:28,692 --> 00:02:33,697 [Jill] Even after that, me and Jessa just felt the weight of it fall on us. 38 00:02:33,864 --> 00:02:36,992 In moments, a preview of what is sure to be the big story, 39 00:02:37,326 --> 00:02:39,536 the sisters, two of them, 40 00:02:39,703 --> 00:02:44,333 who identify themselves as Josh's victims, for the first time. 41 00:02:44,499 --> 00:02:47,419 [Jen] After the Megyn Kelly show came out, 42 00:02:47,586 --> 00:02:51,798 there was a huge leak at the Ashley Madison website. 43 00:02:51,965 --> 00:02:53,383 [Reporter 2] Another bombshell. 44 00:02:53,550 --> 00:02:57,804 Former reality show star Josh Duggar again facing public embarrassment 45 00:02:57,971 --> 00:03:00,057 after being outed on Ashley Madison, 46 00:03:00,223 --> 00:03:02,851 the site known for matching up married cheaters. 47 00:03:03,018 --> 00:03:07,689 [Jim Bob] I guess you've read about it in the newspapers or seen it on TV, 48 00:03:07,856 --> 00:03:11,318 but we've gone through a lot of trials. 49 00:03:11,485 --> 00:03:16,615 [Deanna] It could have all been taken care of in a different way. 50 00:03:16,782 --> 00:03:22,579 If my brother had just woke up, and realized he needed to help his son. 51 00:03:22,746 --> 00:03:28,335 I don't think I need to talk to Josh. I'm gonna talk to our Heavenly Father. 52 00:03:28,502 --> 00:03:34,007 [Reporter 8] Now, porn star, Danica Dillon details her alleged sex with Josh Duggar. 53 00:03:34,174 --> 00:03:38,178 Though it was consensual, it more or less felt like I was being raped. 54 00:03:38,345 --> 00:03:41,181 She had sex with Duggar while his wife was pregnant. 55 00:03:41,348 --> 00:03:46,061 He had paid her thousands to remain quiet. 56 00:03:46,228 --> 00:03:49,106 [Josh Pease] The Duggar family is not a bizarre fascination. 57 00:03:49,271 --> 00:03:55,612 It is a horrifying glimpse of a story that was told over, and over, and over again, 58 00:03:55,779 --> 00:03:57,823 in so many different families. 59 00:03:57,990 --> 00:03:59,824 [Amy] It stirred something in a lot of people, 60 00:03:59,992 --> 00:04:04,788 and they finally got that magnifying glass out going, wait, what is this? 61 00:04:04,955 --> 00:04:06,665 What's really, really going on? 62 00:04:13,505 --> 00:04:14,506 [Interviewer] Okay. 63 00:04:17,091 --> 00:04:20,762 So what's it like sitting here? 64 00:04:20,929 --> 00:04:22,764 - Surreal. - Yeah. 65 00:04:22,931 --> 00:04:25,100 That's definitely the word. (both laughing) 66 00:04:25,267 --> 00:04:26,268 Okay. (laughs) 67 00:04:27,936 --> 00:04:30,439 (curious music) 68 00:04:33,650 --> 00:04:36,653 This is a lot more than, like, TikTok selfies. 69 00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:38,321 (indistinct background chatter) 70 00:04:38,488 --> 00:04:39,990 Ooh. (lips fluttering) 71 00:04:40,157 --> 00:04:42,492 At this point, you know, I've pretty much burned every bridge of my family, 72 00:04:42,659 --> 00:04:45,662 just by being here, but whatever. (laughs) 73 00:04:45,829 --> 00:04:49,166 (Lindsey clears throat) 74 00:04:49,332 --> 00:04:52,127 [Lindsey] My friend, kind of, gave me this really wise advice, 75 00:04:52,294 --> 00:04:55,005 and he was like, you need to step boldly into this moment, 76 00:04:55,172 --> 00:04:58,759 because this is the sacred space that you manifested years ago 77 00:04:58,925 --> 00:05:04,556 when you said that this needs to stop, and people need to know what really happened. 78 00:05:04,723 --> 00:05:08,977 And, so, I'm trying to just (exhales) 79 00:05:09,144 --> 00:05:15,192 So, back when the Duggars first were on TLC, I was so weirded out. 80 00:05:15,358 --> 00:05:20,238 No, no, no. This is not I don't need to watch this, 'cause I've lived it. 81 00:05:20,405 --> 00:05:21,281 (suspenseful music) 82 00:05:21,448 --> 00:05:25,577 I was introduced to the world of Bill Gothard when I was eight years old. 83 00:05:25,952 --> 00:05:29,372 It started actually with my parents attending IBLP seminars. 84 00:05:30,582 --> 00:05:33,210 So, I was taken out of school. 85 00:05:33,375 --> 00:05:35,045 I knew what public school structure was, 86 00:05:35,212 --> 00:05:38,256 and this idea of sitting in the basement with my two brothers, 87 00:05:38,423 --> 00:05:41,051 with milk cartons and some plywood for desks. 88 00:05:41,218 --> 00:05:44,638 I was like, "What is this honky-tonk situation going on here?" (laughs) 89 00:05:46,515 --> 00:05:49,518 [Floyd] The Duggars, they spoke at IBLP conferences 90 00:05:49,684 --> 00:05:52,354 long before I ever heard of them on television. 91 00:05:52,521 --> 00:05:53,855 When they gained some popularity there, 92 00:05:54,022 --> 00:05:59,653 I was shocked, dismayed. (Tara laughing) 93 00:05:59,820 --> 00:06:01,863 [Tara] My parents decided to homeschool. 94 00:06:02,030 --> 00:06:07,035 I know that they wanted to have a hand in what kind of education we got. 95 00:06:07,202 --> 00:06:09,955 When we first met, when he said he was homeschooled, 96 00:06:10,122 --> 00:06:11,289 you could have knocked me over. 97 00:06:11,456 --> 00:06:14,751 I'm like, "Oh, then he definitely understands why I am such a weirdo." 98 00:06:14,918 --> 00:06:16,586 (both laughing) 99 00:06:16,753 --> 00:06:19,840 Being a homeschooled kid, like, you can spot 'em a mile away. 100 00:06:20,006 --> 00:06:23,093 You just like, "Oh, they were homeschooled." 101 00:06:25,053 --> 00:06:28,181 We started homeschooling when I was in second grade. 102 00:06:28,348 --> 00:06:32,185 One of the things that I noticed when I first started watching the Duggars, 103 00:06:33,687 --> 00:06:37,107 everyone is very meek and mild. 104 00:06:37,274 --> 00:06:42,195 Had you put a video camera on my family as children, 105 00:06:42,362 --> 00:06:45,574 you would've seen us the same way. 106 00:06:45,740 --> 00:06:48,910 [Chad] I was the first fully homeschooled child in our family. 107 00:06:49,077 --> 00:06:51,830 You really weren't supposed to watch TV in the IBLP, 108 00:06:51,997 --> 00:06:54,374 and we certainly didn't most of the time. 109 00:06:54,541 --> 00:06:55,917 If you did have a TV, 110 00:06:56,084 --> 00:06:58,003 it was supposed to be hooked up just to a VCR, 111 00:06:58,420 --> 00:07:04,467 and you would only watch things that were approved by IBLP or produced by them. 112 00:07:04,634 --> 00:07:09,097 And I hope that the time we spend together through these gospel piano lessons 113 00:07:09,264 --> 00:07:12,142 [Chad] And to be quite honest, it was very boring. 114 00:07:12,309 --> 00:07:13,560 [Pianist] And experience the joy. 115 00:07:13,727 --> 00:07:17,272 My parents lived in the back woods of Walker County, Alabama. 116 00:07:17,439 --> 00:07:19,482 There were very few options for them. 117 00:07:19,649 --> 00:07:23,069 You either worked in a coal mine, you worked at a steel mill, 118 00:07:23,236 --> 00:07:24,446 or you just starved. 119 00:07:24,779 --> 00:07:27,115 When my dad had the opportunity to become a pastor, 120 00:07:27,282 --> 00:07:31,286 especially in a movement that was supposed to stand up in the last days, 121 00:07:31,453 --> 00:07:32,954 well, yes, of course he went for it. 122 00:07:33,121 --> 00:07:35,749 I mean it beats working in a steel mill. (laughs) 123 00:07:37,792 --> 00:07:39,002 (Tia sighing) 124 00:07:39,169 --> 00:07:44,299 My background, well, I started (laughs), I grew up in Michigan. 125 00:07:44,466 --> 00:07:47,761 I became directly involved with IBLP as a new mom. 126 00:07:50,055 --> 00:07:55,185 They were looking for new families to bring into IBLP way of thinking. 127 00:07:55,351 --> 00:07:59,898 I was a young wife looking for somebody to teach me, 128 00:08:00,065 --> 00:08:02,192 and I'm sure the Duggars had mentors, too, 129 00:08:02,359 --> 00:08:05,654 that taught them how they should be doing these things. 130 00:08:05,820 --> 00:08:10,492 I never went to public school at all. I was homeschooled from day one. 131 00:08:10,659 --> 00:08:16,539 My mother's childhood was very, very traumatic. A lot of abuse happened. 132 00:08:16,706 --> 00:08:21,670 IBLP offered her solace, and promised her peace and a safe space, 133 00:08:21,836 --> 00:08:24,005 and she bought all in. 134 00:08:24,172 --> 00:08:26,299 She had been going to Bill Gothard seminars 135 00:08:26,466 --> 00:08:29,678 from the time the basic seminar became a thing. 136 00:08:29,844 --> 00:08:31,888 (suspenseful music continues) 137 00:08:32,347 --> 00:08:36,643 [Brooke] Bill Gothard was traveling around playing to huge coliseums of people, 138 00:08:36,810 --> 00:08:39,645 and he's doing one every single week. 139 00:08:39,813 --> 00:08:42,315 [Tia] IBLP spread through my church when I was a kid. 140 00:08:42,481 --> 00:08:44,818 The Gothard market is churched people. 141 00:08:45,151 --> 00:08:48,863 They were to leave their seminar, go back to their home churches, 142 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:53,576 be influences for that program, and it caught on. 143 00:08:53,743 --> 00:08:55,829 It spread through the Southern Baptist churches. 144 00:08:55,996 --> 00:09:00,583 It was also spreading in the national scene. 145 00:09:00,750 --> 00:09:03,545 [Brooke] We typically think of a cult as having a commune, 146 00:09:03,712 --> 00:09:07,799 or having this, you know, centered geographic location. 147 00:09:07,966 --> 00:09:09,634 Gothard didn't have that. 148 00:09:09,801 --> 00:09:15,265 Bill Gothard's not a pastor. There was no specific church. 149 00:09:15,432 --> 00:09:17,183 [Brooke] His teachings became the means 150 00:09:17,350 --> 00:09:20,895 with which he exerted control over his followers. 151 00:09:22,647 --> 00:09:25,984 [Bill Gothard] Every one of us has umbrellas of protection. 152 00:09:26,151 --> 00:09:29,237 If we get out from under that umbrella, 153 00:09:29,404 --> 00:09:33,742 we expose ourself to the realm and the power of Satan's control. 154 00:09:34,117 --> 00:09:36,953 Bill Gothard's main thrust was authority, authority, authority. 155 00:09:37,287 --> 00:09:41,416 [Brooke] God creates an umbrella of authority over us. 156 00:09:41,583 --> 00:09:45,170 The kids obey the parents, the parents obey the pastor, 157 00:09:45,337 --> 00:09:50,508 the pastor obeys Bill Gothard, and I guess Bill Gothard talks to God himself. 158 00:09:50,675 --> 00:09:54,512 You must always obey your chain of command, 159 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,058 and that included wives obeying their husbands. 160 00:09:58,224 --> 00:10:03,897 If you're under your umbrella of authority nothing bad can happen to you. 161 00:10:04,064 --> 00:10:07,817 [Josh Pease] Gothard's whole vibe was that he was the good authority. 162 00:10:07,984 --> 00:10:10,653 It's like, "Look, authority's not so bad. 163 00:10:10,820 --> 00:10:15,909 Look how reasonable it is, look how calm I am. Look at how much sense this makes." 164 00:10:16,076 --> 00:10:18,286 (crowd applauding) (suspenseful music continues) 165 00:10:18,453 --> 00:10:19,621 [Bill Gothard] I am thrilled to be able to say 166 00:10:19,954 --> 00:10:23,792 that we can present to your sons and daughters, 167 00:10:23,958 --> 00:10:26,878 the whole world on a golden platter. 168 00:10:27,045 --> 00:10:31,091 [Josh Pease] What Gothard was selling was, sort of, 169 00:10:31,257 --> 00:10:35,553 this mythical idea of returning to a time in which things were better. 170 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,306 Better for who? It wasn't better for the women, 171 00:10:38,473 --> 00:10:41,017 who were being abused by their husbands, and it wasn't getting reported. 172 00:10:41,184 --> 00:10:42,477 It wasn't better for black people 173 00:10:42,644 --> 00:10:44,312 who didn't have the same rights as white people. 174 00:10:44,479 --> 00:10:48,983 It really was better for white Protestants, is what was meant by that. 175 00:10:49,067 --> 00:10:49,901 (suspenseful music continues) 176 00:10:49,984 --> 00:10:53,655 Two, four, six, eight, we don't want to integrate. 177 00:10:54,030 --> 00:10:57,659 [Reporter 4] Negroes made inroads towards integration of schools in the deep south. 178 00:10:57,992 --> 00:11:01,538 [Josh Pease] With Brown versus board of education in 1954, 179 00:11:01,704 --> 00:11:05,834 the government starts insisting on the desegregation of schools. 180 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,711 [Reporter 4] For two days, white crowds gathered at the school. 181 00:11:08,878 --> 00:11:11,256 [Josh Pease] White evangelical Christians are saying, 182 00:11:11,423 --> 00:11:15,552 "We don't want our kids to be a part of the public school system anymore." 183 00:11:15,718 --> 00:11:19,764 A part of the homeschooling movement is in response to that. 184 00:11:19,931 --> 00:11:23,518 What made Gothard so effective is that he was able to realize 185 00:11:23,685 --> 00:11:26,729 that there is a way to dovetail all these things he's teaching 186 00:11:26,896 --> 00:11:30,900 that would also capture the momentum of people who are wanting to say, 187 00:11:31,067 --> 00:11:35,613 "I wanna take back control" over their kids' education. 188 00:11:35,780 --> 00:11:38,283 Out of that, the Advanced Training Institute is born. 189 00:11:38,450 --> 00:11:39,951 (suspenseful music continues) 190 00:11:40,118 --> 00:11:44,581 In 1984, Bill Gothard launches the Advanced Training Institute, 191 00:11:44,747 --> 00:11:47,500 a homeschool curriculum. 192 00:11:47,667 --> 00:11:50,503 [Tara] ATI can be interchangeable sometimes with IBLP. 193 00:11:50,670 --> 00:11:54,549 The people inside of that program will refer to it both ways. 194 00:11:54,716 --> 00:11:58,970 [Jill] We were a part of ATI from as early as I can remember. 195 00:11:59,137 --> 00:12:01,306 We liked to go to the ATI conferences. 196 00:12:01,473 --> 00:12:04,350 At the time they only had one conference a year. 197 00:12:04,517 --> 00:12:06,436 People who were in ATI, I felt like, 198 00:12:06,603 --> 00:12:11,649 were very concerned about any kind of public education for their kids, 199 00:12:11,816 --> 00:12:13,401 because their kids would get brainwashed, 200 00:12:13,568 --> 00:12:16,988 which is true, like, those things can happen. 201 00:12:17,155 --> 00:12:18,948 [Josh Duggar] Well, the purpose of the Advanced Training Institute 202 00:12:19,115 --> 00:12:24,162 is to train up young men and women to become leaders of the next century. 203 00:12:24,329 --> 00:12:28,374 Young people need a role model, someone to look up to. 204 00:12:28,541 --> 00:12:34,380 [Bill Gothard] 20 years ago, 102 families gathered together in the north woods 205 00:12:34,547 --> 00:12:38,051 and began ATI. 206 00:12:38,218 --> 00:12:41,971 For 10 years, we met to write the material, 207 00:12:42,138 --> 00:12:46,309 3,000 pages of the Wisdom Booklets. 208 00:12:46,476 --> 00:12:52,524 The Wisdom Booklets, the fundamental building blocks of our entire education. 209 00:12:52,690 --> 00:12:54,776 Learning to see life from God's perspective, 210 00:12:54,943 --> 00:12:57,654 because who needs an actual academic education 211 00:12:57,820 --> 00:13:00,740 when you've got Wisdom Booklets. 212 00:13:00,907 --> 00:13:03,368 [Lindsey] There were 54 Wisdom Booklets. 213 00:13:03,535 --> 00:13:05,411 There were categories within the Wisdom Booklet, 214 00:13:05,578 --> 00:13:08,831 and so each week you would focus on one category. 215 00:13:08,998 --> 00:13:13,044 - At the end of the year you start over. - That was an entire grade. 216 00:13:13,211 --> 00:13:17,173 In our Wisdom Booklet on page 20, 23 Please sit down. 217 00:13:17,340 --> 00:13:20,552 [Floyd] I deeply am sorrowful for anyone 218 00:13:20,718 --> 00:13:27,016 who only had this material as an education, because it is no such thing. 219 00:13:27,183 --> 00:13:30,019 [Jim Bob] We went to a conference, and we heard about homeschooling, 220 00:13:30,186 --> 00:13:31,980 and then we met several families that homeschooled, 221 00:13:32,146 --> 00:13:34,065 and we saw how mature the children were, 222 00:13:34,232 --> 00:13:37,485 and we thought we really want those character qualities 223 00:13:37,652 --> 00:13:38,611 in our children's lives. 224 00:13:40,446 --> 00:13:43,533 [Jill] We definitely read the Wisdom Booklets. 225 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:45,535 I do remember the character qualities. 226 00:13:45,702 --> 00:13:47,161 [Voice] Orderliness. 227 00:13:47,495 --> 00:13:50,623 Persuasiveness. Obedience. (bear growls) 228 00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:54,252 [Jill] We would memorize their definitions. 229 00:13:54,419 --> 00:13:57,171 The entire curriculum, of course, is based on the Sermon on the Mount. 230 00:13:57,255 --> 00:13:58,089 (curious music) 231 00:13:58,256 --> 00:14:02,468 They would take a passage and they would purport to teach us 232 00:14:02,635 --> 00:14:06,889 everything that we needed to know academically, just from that passage. 233 00:14:07,056 --> 00:14:10,143 [Brooke] Bill Gothard promised that his homeschool program 234 00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:14,314 would be the equivalent of a high school diploma 235 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:19,694 with a pre-law degree, and a pre-medical degree, like, two bachelor's degrees. 236 00:14:19,861 --> 00:14:22,822 "Sign up for the Wisdom Booklets." 237 00:14:22,989 --> 00:14:25,617 We teach our children that evolution is something 238 00:14:25,783 --> 00:14:29,203 that a lot of people are teaching, but yet it's totally unscientific. 239 00:14:29,370 --> 00:14:34,667 You can see how the earth was formed and, with the flood and all of the things, 240 00:14:34,833 --> 00:14:38,755 that science really backs up what scripture says. 241 00:14:40,590 --> 00:14:42,342 [Danielle] They were not being very well educated, 242 00:14:42,508 --> 00:14:44,761 and that was largely by design, right? 243 00:14:44,927 --> 00:14:47,347 You're not gonna teach the kids about dangerous ideas 244 00:14:47,513 --> 00:14:50,058 that exist outside the family's ideology. 245 00:14:50,433 --> 00:14:53,144 A lot of what they taught was just conjecture from Bill Gothard 246 00:14:53,311 --> 00:14:56,147 and from the other authors that he brought in to write his books. 247 00:14:56,314 --> 00:14:57,190 (curious music continues) 248 00:14:57,357 --> 00:15:00,401 [Voice] Fossils did not accumulate over millions of years. 249 00:15:00,568 --> 00:15:04,906 They were all formed simultaneously in one great flood. 250 00:15:05,073 --> 00:15:09,869 Poorly sourced, just complete utter made up nonsense. 251 00:15:10,286 --> 00:15:13,414 [Voice] Hands are composed of non-living atoms. 252 00:15:13,581 --> 00:15:14,999 I have a friend of mine who is in ATI, 253 00:15:15,166 --> 00:15:18,795 and she said that she never learned math outside of fractions, 254 00:15:18,961 --> 00:15:20,004 because her dad said, 255 00:15:20,171 --> 00:15:24,258 "Well, you use fractions in baking and that's good enough." 256 00:15:24,425 --> 00:15:26,803 [Lindsey] Through the Wisdom Booklets, through all the other ATI materials, 257 00:15:26,969 --> 00:15:28,471 and every seminar that we went to, 258 00:15:28,638 --> 00:15:31,808 more and more of my freedoms and my rights were getting taken away from me. 259 00:15:31,974 --> 00:15:34,811 What I could wear, what I could watch, what I could listen to. 260 00:15:34,977 --> 00:15:38,815 It really became a world of all the things I couldn't do. 261 00:15:38,981 --> 00:15:43,569 [Bill Gothard] When a young person listens to a rock song, even a Christian rock, 262 00:15:43,736 --> 00:15:47,115 they give Satan a little square in their soul. 263 00:15:47,281 --> 00:15:51,035 [Voice] The characteristic offbeat in today's rock music 264 00:15:51,202 --> 00:15:56,582 has been traced to the Satanic rituals in the jungles of West Africa. 265 00:15:56,749 --> 00:15:59,794 [Brooke] Gothard had all these crazy rules. 266 00:15:59,961 --> 00:16:02,797 He was just, kind of, this Wizard of Oz-like head, 267 00:16:02,964 --> 00:16:05,007 looming over the whole audience 268 00:16:05,174 --> 00:16:08,261 being like "God thinks you should homeschool your children," 269 00:16:08,428 --> 00:16:11,556 and the, you know, "rock beat is evil." 270 00:16:11,723 --> 00:16:15,101 I threw away all of my evil Amy Grant CDs. 271 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,605 ♪ Baby, baby, the stars are shining for you ♪ 272 00:16:19,981 --> 00:16:22,483 ♪ Be a winner at the game of Life ♪ 273 00:16:22,650 --> 00:16:24,318 [Heather] The game of Life, you could not have the game of Life. 274 00:16:24,485 --> 00:16:26,779 There was not enough seats in that car to fill your quiver. 275 00:16:28,197 --> 00:16:29,657 They had their own games. 276 00:16:29,824 --> 00:16:36,038 This is the Commands of Christ board game, which is super fun and traumatic. 277 00:16:36,205 --> 00:16:38,499 Here you have the venomous pit of bitterness, 278 00:16:38,666 --> 00:16:43,963 the torture pit of temporal values, and then the miry pit of moral impurity. 279 00:16:44,130 --> 00:16:49,135 There's temptation to be bitter, and then temptation to lust, temptation to worry. 280 00:16:49,302 --> 00:16:53,556 Temptation to worry. How do you not worry about that? (laughs) 281 00:16:53,973 --> 00:16:56,100 They set you up for failure. 282 00:16:58,019 --> 00:17:01,147 Good afternoon, Piglet. If it is a good afternoon. 283 00:17:01,314 --> 00:17:02,857 Some people couldn't have Winnie the Pooh. 284 00:17:03,024 --> 00:17:06,526 - Why? - Because Eeyore glorified depression. 285 00:17:06,694 --> 00:17:08,446 (Eeyore sighs) 286 00:17:08,612 --> 00:17:13,367 And Barbie dolls were just harlots. 287 00:17:13,534 --> 00:17:15,035 [Derick] I've asked Jill about the cabbage patch thing. 288 00:17:15,203 --> 00:17:17,246 I don't remember if I fully understood. 289 00:17:17,412 --> 00:17:19,207 I don't know if I fully ever understood. 290 00:17:19,372 --> 00:17:21,250 We were never allowed to have 'em, so (laughs) 291 00:17:21,417 --> 00:17:24,587 [Brooke] Bill Gothard taught that Xavier Roberts, 292 00:17:24,754 --> 00:17:27,757 the creator of Cabbage Patch dolls, was a warlock. 293 00:17:30,092 --> 00:17:33,596 That every cabbage patch doll comes off of the factory line, 294 00:17:33,763 --> 00:17:37,725 he, like, en-curses it with a demon. 295 00:17:37,892 --> 00:17:43,564 [Tara] I remember going to conferences and coming home, and feeling so afraid. 296 00:17:43,731 --> 00:17:46,776 This stuffed animal has a tag on it that says the word magic. 297 00:17:47,193 --> 00:17:49,946 - I'm bringing evil into my family's home. - Devil worship. 298 00:17:50,112 --> 00:17:52,490 - Yeah. - Yeah. 299 00:17:52,657 --> 00:17:59,038 [Michelle] And live happily ever after. Okay, girls, let's go to bed. 300 00:18:01,082 --> 00:18:04,544 Goodnight girls, I love you. 301 00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:08,965 The way that my aunt is so soft spoken, meek and mild, 302 00:18:09,131 --> 00:18:11,467 and just really quiet spirit 303 00:18:11,634 --> 00:18:13,177 - Oh, it drives me nuts. - And then Stop. 304 00:18:13,344 --> 00:18:15,638 The voice is a very intentional, trained thing. 305 00:18:15,805 --> 00:18:18,015 It's part of what we were instructed to do. 306 00:18:18,182 --> 00:18:21,853 - She infantilizes herself on purpose. - She used to be a cheerleader. 307 00:18:22,019 --> 00:18:25,106 I know the woman can yell, and she does not yell anymore. 308 00:18:25,273 --> 00:18:33,155 Listen, the first time I say it, what is it? You obey it. 309 00:18:33,739 --> 00:18:41,747 [Heather] They want young, innocent, sweet girls, not women. 310 00:18:41,956 --> 00:18:45,918 [Jill] My parents wanted all the girls to wear dresses, like all the time. 311 00:18:46,085 --> 00:18:51,966 [Amy] We got pilgrim collars going on, big pilgrim collars, and big skirts. 312 00:18:52,133 --> 00:18:55,094 Our goal is to draw attention to our countenance, 313 00:18:55,261 --> 00:19:00,850 and that helps us to decide what things we wear. 314 00:19:01,017 --> 00:19:03,936 [Chad] You had to wear your hair a certain way to frame your face. 315 00:19:04,103 --> 00:19:06,856 [Lindsey] At one point, Bill Gothard, he took me aside, 316 00:19:07,023 --> 00:19:12,194 because he seemed frustrated that my hair wasn't curly enough. 317 00:19:12,361 --> 00:19:16,866 That it just, needed more Godly "umph." 318 00:19:17,033 --> 00:19:23,247 [Jill] My dad likes long hair, and so we've tried to keep our hair long. 319 00:19:23,414 --> 00:19:29,420 [Lindsey] I would curl my hair ad nauseam. I felt that I had to do this all the time. 320 00:19:29,587 --> 00:19:35,760 We're gonna be talking about clothing. Why is this such an area of contention? 321 00:19:35,927 --> 00:19:40,389 The problem is that men have a problem with their eyes. 322 00:19:40,556 --> 00:19:42,558 The solution is to avoid eye traps. 323 00:19:42,725 --> 00:19:47,480 The shorter the skirt, the more vicious the trap. 324 00:19:47,647 --> 00:19:51,859 [Brooke] In the Wisdom Booklet, there's these drawings of women, 325 00:19:52,026 --> 00:19:54,904 and they're wearing various different outfits. 326 00:19:55,279 --> 00:19:58,866 [Voice] Can you identify the eye traps in these pictures? 327 00:19:59,033 --> 00:20:01,869 (curious music) 328 00:20:02,036 --> 00:20:10,044 [Brooke] The assignment is to figure out what's slutty about each woman's outfit. 329 00:20:10,252 --> 00:20:15,132 And so you circle, "Oh, it's the lace right here. 330 00:20:15,299 --> 00:20:18,344 Oh, it's the mid-calf length skirt." 331 00:20:18,511 --> 00:20:20,846 Instead of learning math, you're learning slut shaming. 332 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:23,808 [Josh Duggar] What is Joy doing right now? 333 00:20:23,975 --> 00:20:26,727 She's covering up the immodest dress. 334 00:20:26,894 --> 00:20:30,856 [Jana] If we're walking past a girl that is immodestly dressed, 335 00:20:31,023 --> 00:20:32,191 they'll call out Nike, 336 00:20:32,358 --> 00:20:37,279 and all the boys will immediately put their heads down, and just walk past. 337 00:20:37,446 --> 00:20:41,701 [Voice] The winking eye. Those who fall to her whoredom 338 00:20:41,867 --> 00:20:45,538 are stripped of resources and vibrancy of life. 339 00:20:46,998 --> 00:20:50,251 You are on display for everyone. 340 00:20:50,418 --> 00:20:57,133 [Woman] You could be a trap for anyone, so if the pastor is molesting you, 341 00:20:57,299 --> 00:21:00,136 it's probably because he's attracted to the young woman you're becoming, 342 00:21:00,302 --> 00:21:02,888 and it's your fault for seducing him. 343 00:21:03,055 --> 00:21:05,474 [Heather] Don't have older brothers change girl babies, 344 00:21:05,641 --> 00:21:08,394 because if you have an older brother change a girl baby, 345 00:21:08,561 --> 00:21:10,563 he'll know what female anatomy looks like, 346 00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:12,523 and he'll be tempted to touch it. 347 00:21:14,734 --> 00:21:18,279 [Brooke] There's a very prepubescent sexual subtext 348 00:21:18,446 --> 00:21:20,656 that I think runs throughout Gothard's teachings, 349 00:21:20,823 --> 00:21:22,992 and I think runs throughout the Wisdom Booklet. 350 00:21:23,159 --> 00:21:27,204 [Voice] Fornicator, lust, lechery, perversion. The pubic louse. 351 00:21:27,371 --> 00:21:31,959 [Brooke] It's almost as if there's this fear of burgeoning sexuality, 352 00:21:32,126 --> 00:21:35,254 and so it must be completely repressed, controlled, ignored, 353 00:21:35,421 --> 00:21:38,382 and refused at all costs. 354 00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:44,263 This repression definitely feeds into a hypersexuality. 355 00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:47,975 [Voice] Adulterer, prostitution, homosexuality, incest. 356 00:21:49,518 --> 00:21:50,770 Don't think about your sister's boobs. 357 00:21:50,936 --> 00:21:52,938 What are you gonna do, think about your sister's boobs? 358 00:21:55,066 --> 00:21:56,567 (tense music continues) 359 00:21:56,734 --> 00:21:59,361 [Bill Gothard] The one who made pornography popular in America 360 00:21:59,528 --> 00:22:02,865 has done more damage in America than a hundred Hitlers. 361 00:22:03,282 --> 00:22:06,911 A lot of these newspaper inserts are pornography. 362 00:22:07,244 --> 00:22:10,081 Romance novels are like pornography. 363 00:22:10,247 --> 00:22:13,334 We said, "You know what, kids, we think there's a lot of things in our home, 364 00:22:13,709 --> 00:22:17,421 DVDs and all kinds of, you know, books and all kinds of stuff 365 00:22:17,588 --> 00:22:20,800 that we don't feel like are pleasing the Lord." I said, "Would you guys help us?" 366 00:22:24,512 --> 00:22:29,809 [Amy] So, my family had a huge bonfire where they burned everything Disney, 367 00:22:29,975 --> 00:22:36,148 and everything, everything, literally everything that was worldly. 368 00:22:36,315 --> 00:22:38,275 [Chad] I've heard of Bill Gothard being personally asked 369 00:22:38,442 --> 00:22:41,487 to cleanse people's houses for them. That meant going room to room, 370 00:22:41,654 --> 00:22:44,365 praying that any demonic influence that had ever been in there 371 00:22:44,532 --> 00:22:47,451 would be cleansed by the power of Jesus Christ. 372 00:22:47,827 --> 00:22:55,751 If we allow a hole in our umbrella, Satan will come in, and will attack our family. 373 00:22:55,918 --> 00:23:00,798 It was guaranteed destruction, you know, or something like that. 374 00:23:00,965 --> 00:23:02,883 And, so, as like a young imaginative kid, 375 00:23:03,050 --> 00:23:07,847 I'm like, "Oh my God," you know, "I'm gonna be destroyed." 376 00:23:08,013 --> 00:23:14,687 [Floyd] Fear was a a huge component of what they pushed through the seminar 377 00:23:14,854 --> 00:23:15,938 and through the materials. 378 00:23:16,105 --> 00:23:21,735 ♪ Why should I not be put in hell ♪ 379 00:23:21,902 --> 00:23:26,615 ♪ To suffer for all time? ♪♪ 380 00:23:26,782 --> 00:23:31,328 [Lara] In IBLP, you're at high alert all the time digging into everything, 381 00:23:31,495 --> 00:23:34,165 making sure you're not doing, or thinking, 382 00:23:34,331 --> 00:23:38,919 or feeling anything that's going to get you sent to hell, 383 00:23:39,086 --> 00:23:44,592 and hell was very vivid for us. It was not an abstract concept. 384 00:23:44,758 --> 00:23:51,891 I would dream about being burned alive, because I had thought, 385 00:23:52,057 --> 00:23:54,435 "Ugh, I really hate my brother today." 386 00:23:54,602 --> 00:23:58,939 And I thought (laughs), "Oh, no, going to hell again." 387 00:23:59,273 --> 00:24:02,526 I realized at a young age that I was a sinner. 388 00:24:02,693 --> 00:24:05,863 I have done so many bad deeds, I've sinned against God, 389 00:24:06,030 --> 00:24:08,824 and I cannot save myself from my sins. 390 00:24:08,991 --> 00:24:12,203 [Woman] Within this community, critical thinking is turned on yourself. 391 00:24:14,580 --> 00:24:18,918 So, you end up, kind of, cannibalizing your self-confidence 392 00:24:19,084 --> 00:24:22,504 with over analyzing, "Am I doing it right?" 393 00:24:22,671 --> 00:24:25,424 Rather than criticizing the system as a whole. 394 00:24:25,591 --> 00:24:31,388 If you are so preoccupied with self-examination, 395 00:24:31,555 --> 00:24:34,558 you're not gonna have enough energy to challenge the system itself. 396 00:24:34,725 --> 00:24:37,686 (suspicious music) 397 00:24:37,853 --> 00:24:40,397 [Jim Bob] Man has his role, woman has her role, 398 00:24:40,564 --> 00:24:44,568 and everyone will just be happy if they stick to those two things. 399 00:24:44,735 --> 00:24:50,783 Every single one of us will see life through our particular spiritual gift. 400 00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:53,494 [Chad] You were taught you had a spiritual gift, 401 00:24:53,661 --> 00:24:56,247 and you were supposed to determine what your spiritual gift was, 402 00:24:56,413 --> 00:24:59,959 and that spiritual gift was to be used for the ministry. 403 00:25:00,125 --> 00:25:02,962 [Brooke] Really and truly, everyone's a prophet or a mercy. 404 00:25:03,128 --> 00:25:06,298 It's kind of a funny little type-casting, 405 00:25:06,465 --> 00:25:10,344 and prophets have carte blanche to be as big of jerks as they want, 406 00:25:10,511 --> 00:25:11,887 and mercies are just supposed to take it. 407 00:25:12,054 --> 00:25:14,390 And then, of course, all the men are prophets, 408 00:25:14,556 --> 00:25:16,934 and all the women are mercies. (laughs) 409 00:25:17,101 --> 00:25:18,435 [Bill Gothard] The gift of mercy. 410 00:25:18,602 --> 00:25:22,856 They have an amazing capacity to share the burdens of others. 411 00:25:23,023 --> 00:25:27,528 They take them up, they assume them, they just kind of collect burdens. 412 00:25:27,695 --> 00:25:30,072 [Interviewer] Do you remember what your spiritual gift was? 413 00:25:30,239 --> 00:25:33,993 (laughs) Yes, mercy giver. 414 00:25:35,703 --> 00:25:37,413 (toddler fussing) 415 00:25:39,164 --> 00:25:42,668 [Bill Gothard] The older ones must be trained, 416 00:25:42,835 --> 00:25:46,130 because the older ones take care of the younger ones. 417 00:25:46,297 --> 00:25:50,968 [Jill] In my family, usually the older kids helped take care of the younger kids. 418 00:25:51,135 --> 00:25:55,180 We had buddy pairs, and I had a buddy team. 419 00:25:55,347 --> 00:25:58,100 [Jen] There's a lot of parentification within the Quiverfull movement. 420 00:25:58,267 --> 00:26:03,564 Just the sheer number of children, it is impossible to parent all of them, 421 00:26:04,064 --> 00:26:06,567 and they usually have the older children, the daughters, 422 00:26:06,734 --> 00:26:10,487 - take care of the younger kids. - I think my experience of parentification 423 00:26:10,654 --> 00:26:15,868 is still one of my biggest traumas from this world that I'm still working through. 424 00:26:16,035 --> 00:26:20,914 My upbringing really looked a lot like the early years of the Duggars. 425 00:26:21,081 --> 00:26:22,750 (suspicious music continues) 426 00:26:22,916 --> 00:26:27,463 I grew up in a Quiverfull family. I'm the oldest of nine. 427 00:26:27,629 --> 00:26:32,551 I helped raise approximately five of my younger siblings. 428 00:26:32,968 --> 00:26:36,555 I was my sibling's surrogate mom. I had been at the birth, 429 00:26:36,722 --> 00:26:42,811 and done night duty, and done feedings, and I was so tired, so tired all the time. 430 00:26:42,978 --> 00:26:46,732 [Michelle] When the baby is born, it's my buddy until it's weaned, 431 00:26:46,899 --> 00:26:49,735 and then from there it goes to the other buddy, 432 00:26:49,902 --> 00:26:51,695 whoever's turn it is to get a buddy. 433 00:26:51,862 --> 00:26:54,823 [Tia] To a child who is 11 years old raising a baby, 434 00:26:54,990 --> 00:26:58,786 and they just saw on TV it touted it as the buddy system, 435 00:26:58,952 --> 00:27:03,248 and nobody said, "Is anybody checking to see if that 11 year old had some needs? 436 00:27:03,415 --> 00:27:05,876 That maybe she shouldn't have the baby in the bed with her? 437 00:27:06,335 --> 00:27:09,129 That maybe she needs school?" 438 00:27:09,296 --> 00:27:12,716 I cannot emphasize enough how hurtful that is. 439 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,220 [Jill] Smile, and have a pleasant look on your face 440 00:27:16,637 --> 00:27:18,555 so you don't look like you're mad or something. 441 00:27:18,722 --> 00:27:20,849 (strings humming) [Lara] When I was watching the Duggars, 442 00:27:21,016 --> 00:27:25,396 the attitudes of the children are what I noticed right off the bat. 443 00:27:25,562 --> 00:27:29,024 My heart broke for them, because they were so calm, 444 00:27:29,191 --> 00:27:32,361 and they were so peaceful and well-behaved, 445 00:27:32,528 --> 00:27:35,155 and I knew what it took to get there. 446 00:27:35,322 --> 00:27:37,032 (audience applauding) 447 00:27:37,491 --> 00:27:39,493 [Bill Ligon] So, if I had someone who would loan me a little boy, 448 00:27:39,660 --> 00:27:42,996 I would show you how to spank a boy, and bless him at the same time right now. 449 00:27:43,330 --> 00:27:47,626 And you got one coming? Well, bring him around here, and bring him on up here. 450 00:27:47,793 --> 00:27:49,169 (applause) 451 00:27:49,336 --> 00:27:51,296 - Hi son, what's your name? - [Jason] Jason. 452 00:27:51,463 --> 00:27:53,132 Jason, wow, that's a fine name. 453 00:27:53,298 --> 00:27:56,593 Well, Jason, I'm gonna pretend that I'm your dad for a moment, okay? 454 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,638 I want to tell you, Jason, you know, that daddy is not pleased 455 00:27:59,805 --> 00:28:02,891 with the way you've acted today, and you know it's wrong, right? 456 00:28:03,058 --> 00:28:07,104 - [Jason] Yes sir. - And, so, I'm gonna spank you. 457 00:28:07,271 --> 00:28:08,814 So, lean over here right now. 458 00:28:12,109 --> 00:28:15,821 Now, Jason, you're a fine boy. You're gonna grow up to be an outstanding man. 459 00:28:17,156 --> 00:28:19,283 God's hand is on your life son. 460 00:28:19,450 --> 00:28:22,244 (audience laughing) 461 00:28:22,411 --> 00:28:26,165 Now, okay, let's see. You understand? Did you understand now? 462 00:28:26,331 --> 00:28:28,167 - Yes, sir. - Okay, well, give daddy a hug. 463 00:28:31,211 --> 00:28:33,922 I don't think you put yourself into that hug, son, 464 00:28:34,089 --> 00:28:35,966 so let's spank a little more. 465 00:28:37,593 --> 00:28:38,677 (audience laughing) 466 00:28:38,844 --> 00:28:42,514 Let's see if we can get a good hug out of this. Let's see, give daddy a hug. 467 00:28:42,681 --> 00:28:45,476 Boy, oh wow, wow! (audience laughing) 468 00:28:45,642 --> 00:28:49,438 [Chad] They believed in physical punishment for nearly everything. 469 00:28:49,605 --> 00:28:51,815 It was a fear-based tactic, and it was very effective. 470 00:28:53,692 --> 00:28:56,403 In my family, my mom was my primary abuser. 471 00:28:56,570 --> 00:28:59,364 She would scream at us, she would threaten us, 472 00:28:59,531 --> 00:29:00,657 she would beat us mercilessly. 473 00:29:00,824 --> 00:29:04,536 At one point she beat me for an entire hour in a church bathroom 474 00:29:04,703 --> 00:29:07,623 in an effort to "break my will," as she said. 475 00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:10,792 Family friend happened to be there when the incident occurred, and she said, 476 00:29:10,959 --> 00:29:13,795 "Oh, yes, and the whole time I was saying, 'please stop hurting that sweet boy.'" 477 00:29:13,962 --> 00:29:16,173 And mom said, "Yes, but I had to break his will." 478 00:29:16,340 --> 00:29:21,094 This was treated as a funny family story. Everybody laughed except me. 479 00:29:21,261 --> 00:29:25,098 I'm not gonna let you disobey. What you need to do is honor. 480 00:29:25,265 --> 00:29:30,646 [Jill] Having a voice about what you think and how you feel, 481 00:29:30,812 --> 00:29:35,234 and being able to voice and say no about things 482 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,489 was stifled and not encouraged in the IBLP setting, in my family. 483 00:29:40,656 --> 00:29:42,574 (bells ringing) 484 00:29:42,741 --> 00:29:48,163 [Tara] The show is basically saying, perfect angel children exist, 485 00:29:48,330 --> 00:29:54,044 but I didn't see calm, happy children. I saw broken spirits. 486 00:29:54,211 --> 00:29:57,464 [Michelle] It is so sweet. It goes into all areas of their life, 487 00:29:57,631 --> 00:30:00,384 and so the guys will help me bring this next one up. 488 00:30:00,551 --> 00:30:01,593 Say it again. 489 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:08,141 Instant obedience to initial prompting of God's spirit. 490 00:30:08,308 --> 00:30:12,396 Our eighth born just resisted every bit of training I tried to give him, 491 00:30:12,563 --> 00:30:17,859 and when he was about 14 months old, I just didn't know what to do with him, 492 00:30:18,026 --> 00:30:20,445 and he was really shaming his mother. 493 00:30:20,612 --> 00:30:25,200 And I would spank that child all day long. And many mothers 494 00:30:25,367 --> 00:30:29,246 [Lara] All children, if they were following the institute's guidelines, 495 00:30:29,413 --> 00:30:32,249 you're spanked until you stop crying, which could be hours. 496 00:30:32,416 --> 00:30:33,458 (solemn music) 497 00:30:33,625 --> 00:30:36,962 In the institute, Michael and Debi Pearl's book "To Train Up a Child" 498 00:30:37,129 --> 00:30:39,965 was the endorsed book by Gothard. 499 00:30:40,132 --> 00:30:42,009 If that child is gonna have authority, 500 00:30:42,175 --> 00:30:45,554 mother, you gotta let that man be the authority. 501 00:30:45,887 --> 00:30:49,516 Punish him with the rod severely. 502 00:30:49,683 --> 00:30:53,604 If he screams too hard with the first five, gets hysterical, wait. 503 00:30:53,770 --> 00:30:57,524 You know, a little psychological terror is sometimes more effective than the pain. 504 00:30:57,899 --> 00:31:00,485 Michael and Debi Pearl are some mother fuckers. 505 00:31:00,652 --> 00:31:02,988 The rules, the principles, techniques 506 00:31:03,155 --> 00:31:08,076 for training an animal and a human are the same. 507 00:31:08,243 --> 00:31:12,789 [Tia] His goal is to help you spank your child with extreme measures 508 00:31:12,956 --> 00:31:15,292 and not get in trouble with the police. 509 00:31:15,459 --> 00:31:20,005 So, how you spank is just as important as what you spank with. 510 00:31:20,172 --> 00:31:21,381 It can be a switch from a tree, 511 00:31:21,548 --> 00:31:26,470 it can be a length of craft glue, the long glue stick, it can be PVC pipe. 512 00:31:26,637 --> 00:31:28,639 The rod of reproof. 513 00:31:28,805 --> 00:31:34,728 The real benefit of that is that when a child sees this neutral object 514 00:31:34,895 --> 00:31:39,775 coming out of the drawer or whatever, it becomes like a policeman. 515 00:31:39,941 --> 00:31:43,945 [Interviewer] Did you see your cousins being punished with rods? 516 00:31:44,112 --> 00:31:45,197 They called it encouragement. 517 00:31:45,364 --> 00:31:48,367 They literally said, "You need to come into the room, 518 00:31:48,533 --> 00:31:50,744 and we need to give you some encouragement." 519 00:31:50,911 --> 00:31:54,706 But it was in the sweetest tone ever of, like, "Do you need encouragement?" 520 00:31:56,124 --> 00:31:57,709 "I think you need encouragement." 521 00:31:57,876 --> 00:32:00,045 (tense music) 522 00:32:00,212 --> 00:32:03,590 [Chad] I know that there was a particular style of child training 523 00:32:03,757 --> 00:32:04,675 called blanket training. 524 00:32:04,841 --> 00:32:08,679 You put the kid on a blanket, probably six-month old, 525 00:32:08,845 --> 00:32:11,973 and you put something they want just outside of reach off the blanket, 526 00:32:12,140 --> 00:32:14,768 and when they go to reach for it, you hit them, 527 00:32:14,935 --> 00:32:18,730 and if they continue to reach for it, you hit them again. 528 00:32:18,897 --> 00:32:23,110 The idea is you're breaking the rebellious spirit they are born with. 529 00:32:23,527 --> 00:32:27,072 So, blanket training was also covered in Michelle Duggar's book. 530 00:32:27,239 --> 00:32:28,990 [Michelle] I would focus on blanket training, 531 00:32:29,157 --> 00:32:34,788 calling out, "Okay boys, it's blanket time. Oh, isn't this fun?" 532 00:32:34,955 --> 00:32:37,916 "Come pick a toy so we can have blanket time." 533 00:32:38,083 --> 00:32:40,168 And we're gonna practice, "obey mama." 534 00:32:40,335 --> 00:32:43,088 Sit really still, and look at me with a big old smile. 535 00:32:43,255 --> 00:32:46,341 Wanna see that smile now. No wiggles, be still. 536 00:32:46,508 --> 00:32:49,386 (tense music continues) 537 00:32:49,553 --> 00:32:51,054 [Woman] When you are told to not resist 538 00:32:51,221 --> 00:32:54,558 when your parents are hitting you as a child, because it's for your own good, 539 00:32:54,725 --> 00:32:59,771 when you believe that your body belongs to the church 540 00:32:59,938 --> 00:33:02,858 and to the authorities that be, 541 00:33:03,024 --> 00:33:06,278 it's absolutely designed to groom victims 542 00:33:06,445 --> 00:33:11,366 to be ready for more predators later on as adults, as young adults. 543 00:33:11,533 --> 00:33:16,163 Like, everything about it sets you up to be the perfect victim. 544 00:33:16,329 --> 00:33:17,289 (tense music continues) 545 00:33:17,622 --> 00:33:22,878 It's like Gothard franchised spiritual, physical, emotional, psychological abuse. 546 00:33:23,044 --> 00:33:29,468 [Bill Gothard] The way to be free is to learn the wishes of your authority. 547 00:33:29,634 --> 00:33:30,969 [Josh Pease] He figured out how to package it, 548 00:33:31,136 --> 00:33:35,348 and then put it in all these different places that he never actually went. 549 00:33:35,515 --> 00:33:38,435 It was so entrenched into the DNA of the message 550 00:33:38,602 --> 00:33:40,854 that it went everywhere. 551 00:33:41,021 --> 00:33:48,361 Gothard turned every father into a cult leader and every home into an island. 552 00:33:48,528 --> 00:33:51,490 (tense music continues) 553 00:33:51,656 --> 00:33:56,745 [Floyd] My father was very attracted to the patriarchal teachings of IBLP. 554 00:33:56,912 --> 00:34:01,416 The control and protection that it would've afforded him 555 00:34:01,583 --> 00:34:03,877 was exceptionally valuable to him, 556 00:34:04,044 --> 00:34:10,759 especially as I would come to learn later that he was a predator. 557 00:34:10,925 --> 00:34:15,847 When I was 12, he was convicted for a sexual assault against a minor. 558 00:34:16,014 --> 00:34:20,811 So, it destroyed my idea of what a family was, 559 00:34:20,977 --> 00:34:28,108 and the support that my mother received through IBLP 560 00:34:28,276 --> 00:34:32,905 to stay with him, to continue, to bring him back into our home, 561 00:34:33,073 --> 00:34:36,785 was deeply traumatic as well. 562 00:34:36,952 --> 00:34:38,829 This kind of stuff was swept under the rug. 563 00:34:38,995 --> 00:34:41,748 That's something that I experienced directly. 564 00:34:41,914 --> 00:34:45,001 (breathing deeply) 565 00:34:47,963 --> 00:34:53,425 When we met, I was very reserved and rigid, and she was the opposite of that, 566 00:34:53,593 --> 00:34:57,137 and that's one of the reasons I fell in love with her originally. 567 00:34:57,305 --> 00:35:01,560 (crowd clapping and cheering) [Tara] I met you when I was 18. 568 00:35:01,726 --> 00:35:07,899 My entire drive, looking back, was to find my husband. 569 00:35:08,066 --> 00:35:10,735 We're not just dating to have fun, and go to the movies. 570 00:35:10,902 --> 00:35:13,154 We are on a schedule. We have to get this done. 571 00:35:13,321 --> 00:35:18,118 We've got babies to make, and that's the entire focus and purpose. 572 00:35:18,285 --> 00:35:21,538 [Anna] My family had known about the Duggar family for several years. 573 00:35:21,705 --> 00:35:25,250 Then in 2006, when I was 17, and Josh was 18, 574 00:35:25,417 --> 00:35:29,880 we met for the first time at a homeschool conference. 575 00:35:30,046 --> 00:35:31,339 (tense music continues) 576 00:35:31,506 --> 00:35:35,594 [Bill Gothard] Every one of you sons, every one of you daughters, 577 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,973 upgraded dating to courtship. 578 00:35:40,140 --> 00:35:43,852 Courtship established the parents as the head of every relationship 579 00:35:44,019 --> 00:35:45,937 between a young man and young woman in ATI. 580 00:35:46,104 --> 00:35:49,274 The man would approach the woman's parents, ask for permission to court, 581 00:35:49,441 --> 00:35:50,317 everything else from from there 582 00:35:50,650 --> 00:35:52,944 was essentially handled like an arranged marriage. 583 00:35:53,111 --> 00:35:55,655 [Derick and Jill] It's the Duggar Guide to Love. 584 00:35:55,822 --> 00:35:59,409 [Jill] Today we're sharing the Duggar rules of side hugs, chaperones, 585 00:35:59,576 --> 00:36:01,369 and saving your first kiss for marriage. 586 00:36:02,621 --> 00:36:03,747 [Kristin] The idea of courtship 587 00:36:03,914 --> 00:36:08,960 It's promoted as a way of guaranteeing sexual purity. 588 00:36:09,336 --> 00:36:11,421 - [Josh Duggar] Anna, will you marry me? - Yes. 589 00:36:11,588 --> 00:36:12,714 (laughing) 590 00:36:13,089 --> 00:36:16,259 [Amy] I hear my uncle in the background go, 591 00:36:16,426 --> 00:36:20,055 "So, who wants to be Josh and Anna's chaperone?" 592 00:36:20,221 --> 00:36:22,474 So beautiful, oh, Anna! 593 00:36:22,849 --> 00:36:24,142 [Amy] Yeah, and they're engaged at this point. 594 00:36:24,309 --> 00:36:26,645 They're engaged. I literally was like, 595 00:36:29,064 --> 00:36:32,233 don't you know how to act toward each other when no one's around? 596 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,778 [TLC Producer] Did you Google or YouTube how to kiss? 597 00:36:34,945 --> 00:36:35,779 What's that? 598 00:36:35,862 --> 00:36:37,155 [TLC Producer 2] Google or YouTube how to kiss. 599 00:36:37,322 --> 00:36:41,201 [laughs] No, no, no, no. Do they have it on there? 600 00:36:41,368 --> 00:36:42,702 (everyone laughing) 601 00:36:42,869 --> 00:36:45,455 [Tia] You would save your kissing for the wedding. 602 00:36:45,956 --> 00:36:49,250 You would save all experience for the one person that God had for you. 603 00:36:49,751 --> 00:36:51,753 It really beautified purity culture. 604 00:36:52,253 --> 00:36:56,049 It made it seem like it was this romantic wonderful concept. 605 00:36:56,549 --> 00:36:58,843 I thought it'd be time to have a man-to-man talk with you. 606 00:36:59,010 --> 00:37:02,514 - Oh. - About the birds and the bees. 607 00:37:02,681 --> 00:37:07,143 [Tia] There was this CD. Jim Bob is giving it to Josh. 608 00:37:07,310 --> 00:37:10,605 Definition of normal (beeping sound). 609 00:37:10,772 --> 00:37:11,690 Yeah. Shh. (both laughing) 610 00:37:11,815 --> 00:37:15,652 It's supposed to be a Kama Sutra for Christians. There's one position in it, 611 00:37:15,819 --> 00:37:20,281 and instructions on how to give a good hand job, and be available at all times. 612 00:37:20,615 --> 00:37:22,742 I think I kind of understand how it works. 613 00:37:23,076 --> 00:37:23,910 - [Jim Bob] Yeah. - I think I learned that- 614 00:37:24,077 --> 00:37:25,537 - [Jim Bob] It's kinda like Legos. - [Tia] In hindsight, 615 00:37:26,162 --> 00:37:28,373 we know that Josh Duggar had already molested his sisters at this point. 616 00:37:28,540 --> 00:37:31,793 He was already well acquainted with what was going on with sexuality, 617 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:37,632 and he'd already been through their farce of rehabilitation. 618 00:37:37,799 --> 00:37:40,301 But when America saw that, it's a joke, it's a joke. 619 00:37:40,468 --> 00:37:41,386 This doesn't have pictures or anything, but it's good. 620 00:37:41,553 --> 00:37:43,304 - Aw, man, no, I'm joking. - That's good. 621 00:37:43,471 --> 00:37:47,600 No, no, I got enough. I'll have a working model, right? 622 00:37:47,767 --> 00:37:48,935 Yeah. 623 00:37:49,102 --> 00:37:50,854 [Jessa] I have a feeling it's gonna be a very short engagement. 624 00:37:50,937 --> 00:37:51,771 [Interviewer 2] Why is that? 625 00:37:53,773 --> 00:37:56,192 Um, I don't think Josh wants to wait. [laughs] 626 00:37:56,359 --> 00:37:59,237 [Tia] In this culture, you are not really allowed 627 00:37:59,404 --> 00:38:02,657 to say no to who shows up and says they want you. 628 00:38:02,824 --> 00:38:05,827 If a man says he wants you, then he's God's man for you, 629 00:38:05,994 --> 00:38:10,540 and you have to learn how to adjust your feelings and thoughts around that. 630 00:38:10,707 --> 00:38:14,002 So, by the time I was an 18 year old woman, 631 00:38:14,169 --> 00:38:18,923 I had fully expected to just be nothing more than a submissive wife and mother. 632 00:38:19,090 --> 00:38:21,551 And then I met somebody at church. 633 00:38:23,136 --> 00:38:25,638 I didn't have instant attraction to this person. 634 00:38:25,805 --> 00:38:27,682 I didn't feel safe with this person, 635 00:38:27,849 --> 00:38:30,018 but I had spent my lifetime praying for the man 636 00:38:30,185 --> 00:38:31,853 God was going to bring me to marry. 637 00:38:32,020 --> 00:38:34,189 (organ music) 638 00:38:34,355 --> 00:38:39,360 And, so, I bent my will around this idea. 639 00:38:39,527 --> 00:38:40,779 (upbeat music) 640 00:38:40,945 --> 00:38:43,573 We're having the wedding today. 641 00:38:44,032 --> 00:38:48,078 [Michael] The way God ordained it all, Josh becomes the authority at the wedding. 642 00:38:48,244 --> 00:38:50,622 You know, he becomes her authority, not me. 643 00:38:50,789 --> 00:38:54,167 And that's the way God designed the transfer of authority. 644 00:38:54,334 --> 00:38:57,378 [Brooke] Women cannot be in authority over themselves. 645 00:38:57,545 --> 00:39:00,757 They have to have a male authority figure over them. 646 00:39:00,924 --> 00:39:04,427 The idea is that you're under the total authority of your father 647 00:39:04,928 --> 00:39:09,140 until he transfers that authority over to your husband on your wedding day. 648 00:39:09,307 --> 00:39:13,103 [Officiant] Anna, placing yourself under the leadership of Joshua, 649 00:39:13,269 --> 00:39:18,858 submitting to his authority, following his direction through Christ in your lives. 650 00:39:19,025 --> 00:39:23,905 Also, do both of you commit to trust God with the size of your family? 651 00:39:24,072 --> 00:39:25,532 - We do. - We do. 652 00:39:25,698 --> 00:39:27,158 [Officiant] You may kiss your bride. 653 00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:30,620 [Tia] We had a beautiful wedding. 654 00:39:30,787 --> 00:39:32,330 (wedding goers clapping) 655 00:39:32,497 --> 00:39:34,999 My parents gave me the wedding of my dreams. 656 00:39:35,166 --> 00:39:38,419 I was on cloud nine. I thought I was starting my fairytale. 657 00:39:38,753 --> 00:39:40,755 (wedding goers cheering) 658 00:39:40,922 --> 00:39:45,343 [Officiant] I would like to introduce to you, Mr. And Mrs. Joshua James Duggar. 659 00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:50,723 (crowd cheering and applauding) 660 00:39:50,890 --> 00:39:54,686 [Dr. Edwin] This is Dr. Edwin. Love involves close bodily contact 661 00:39:54,853 --> 00:39:58,565 and the pleasure of seeing, touching and enjoying with all the senses. 662 00:39:58,731 --> 00:39:59,649 [Crew Member 1] We're getting this last shot, 663 00:39:59,816 --> 00:40:03,027 which should be the last shot in the show, them walking to the hotel room. 664 00:40:03,194 --> 00:40:04,904 (upbeat music) 665 00:40:05,071 --> 00:40:05,905 [Josh Duggar] Goodbye. 666 00:40:07,031 --> 00:40:08,366 (door slams) 667 00:40:08,533 --> 00:40:11,995 I had successfully remained pure. I had followed all of the rules, 668 00:40:12,370 --> 00:40:16,166 and I had spent the engagement fending off physical advances 669 00:40:16,332 --> 00:40:18,376 in trying to save myself for the wedding night. 670 00:40:20,003 --> 00:40:22,046 On my wedding night I was raped three times, 671 00:40:23,882 --> 00:40:27,468 and after that found out I was pregnant. 672 00:40:29,762 --> 00:40:33,558 Why is marriage like this? Is this like this for everybody? 673 00:40:33,725 --> 00:40:35,768 Is love supposed to hurt this much? 674 00:40:35,935 --> 00:40:40,523 I didn't have any idea what was normal or natural. I'd had no sex education. 675 00:40:40,690 --> 00:40:46,571 I was 19, and I was totally in shock. I had an abusive husband. 676 00:40:46,738 --> 00:40:50,575 Had my first baby at 20. My fifth baby was born when I was 30. 677 00:40:53,453 --> 00:40:55,121 I trusted my Gothard mentors, 678 00:40:55,288 --> 00:41:01,044 because I felt I could trust a mother of 10 whose children all sat in a row, 679 00:41:01,211 --> 00:41:03,004 and clearly had order and structure. 680 00:41:03,171 --> 00:41:04,422 The answers I got back were, 681 00:41:04,589 --> 00:41:07,634 "These are your duties, these are your responsibilities." 682 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,761 - [Levings] Blow, blow, blow - [Tia] Blow, baby. 683 00:41:09,928 --> 00:41:10,762 (child blowing) (all cheering) 684 00:41:10,845 --> 00:41:12,639 [Tia] If you do better at being a wife, 685 00:41:12,805 --> 00:41:15,516 you will solve the problems of your marriage. 686 00:41:15,683 --> 00:41:17,310 I needed my baby to sleep through the night, 687 00:41:17,477 --> 00:41:20,063 because if my baby cried at night, and my husband didn't sleep, 688 00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:22,649 there was going to be violence. 689 00:41:22,815 --> 00:41:24,776 Michael Pearl talks about child spanking. 690 00:41:24,943 --> 00:41:28,655 A careful reader will realize there is no age limit to spanking. 691 00:41:28,821 --> 00:41:30,865 Children in homeschooling, fundamentalist families 692 00:41:31,032 --> 00:41:33,868 are spanked all the way up into adulthood, 693 00:41:34,035 --> 00:41:38,498 and that includes older daughters, and that includes wives. 694 00:41:38,665 --> 00:41:41,167 And this is something the fundamentalist husbands do to their wives. 695 00:41:41,334 --> 00:41:43,711 For example, if you forget to say, yes sir, 696 00:41:43,878 --> 00:41:48,424 or my lord, when you're talking to your husband, then there's a consequence. 697 00:41:48,591 --> 00:41:51,719 There's an implement that's agreed upon as part of the contract, 698 00:41:51,886 --> 00:41:53,888 a domestic discipline contract. 699 00:41:54,055 --> 00:41:57,350 There are rules for whether or not you're allowed to cry. 700 00:41:57,517 --> 00:42:01,187 If there's going to involve what they call corner time, where you go sit in a corner, 701 00:42:01,354 --> 00:42:03,147 if there will be sex afterward or not 702 00:42:03,314 --> 00:42:05,650 as part of the restoration of the relationship. 703 00:42:06,025 --> 00:42:09,320 No matter how old you are, the whole point is inflict pain 704 00:42:09,487 --> 00:42:15,576 until you have the submissive confession that the oppressor wants. 705 00:42:19,831 --> 00:42:21,040 When the show first premiered, 706 00:42:21,207 --> 00:42:25,420 I instantly recognized their belief pattern as my own. 707 00:42:25,586 --> 00:42:27,255 My first thought was, "Oh my God, 708 00:42:27,422 --> 00:42:30,341 are they really gonna show America what my life is like? 709 00:42:30,508 --> 00:42:33,803 What's America gonna say when they find out how these people live?" 710 00:42:33,970 --> 00:42:35,263 What actually happened is nothing like that. 711 00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:38,725 It was heavily produced, very shined up. 712 00:42:38,891 --> 00:42:42,186 The audacity of Jim Bob Duggar to say, 713 00:42:42,353 --> 00:42:44,564 "I've got my family under so much control." 714 00:42:44,731 --> 00:42:48,901 They were that secure they could keep their secrets with a camera crew, 715 00:42:49,068 --> 00:42:51,362 and that their kids were not gonna betray the truth. 716 00:42:51,529 --> 00:42:53,072 I cannot believe that he got away with that, 717 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,659 and that it was a hit show for as long as it was. 718 00:42:56,826 --> 00:43:01,748 [Megyn] Why would a family with such a painful secret launch a reality TV show? 719 00:43:01,914 --> 00:43:04,125 It was a very difficult situation. 720 00:43:04,292 --> 00:43:08,546 But as we've talked to other parents and different ones since then, 721 00:43:08,713 --> 00:43:09,756 a lot of families have said 722 00:43:09,922 --> 00:43:12,884 that they've had similar things happen in their families, and 723 00:43:13,051 --> 00:43:15,094 [Heather] Nobody in my circle was surprised 724 00:43:15,261 --> 00:43:17,138 when the allegations against Josh came out. 725 00:43:17,305 --> 00:43:21,559 It was so prevalent that nobody was shocked. 726 00:43:21,726 --> 00:43:25,104 That's what happens, brothers do that. 727 00:43:28,066 --> 00:43:29,734 [Jill] We were hiding from paparazzi, 728 00:43:29,901 --> 00:43:33,154 and it's, like, everybody's in this room, this family meeting. 729 00:43:33,321 --> 00:43:35,615 My dad's PR guy would be there as well. 730 00:43:35,782 --> 00:43:38,076 - [Producer] And who was that? - Chad Gallagher. 731 00:43:38,242 --> 00:43:40,286 [Jill] Chad worked with Mike Huckabee as well. 732 00:43:40,620 --> 00:43:41,829 [Derick] He was an advocate to the extent 733 00:43:41,996 --> 00:43:44,832 that it represented Jim Bob's goals financially. 734 00:43:45,249 --> 00:43:49,045 [Jill] So, Chad was the one who was setting up the Megyn Kelly thing 735 00:43:49,212 --> 00:43:55,802 to try and get it to where TLC would be cool with moving forward with this show. 736 00:43:55,968 --> 00:44:00,640 You are going on the record as being two of Josh's victims. 737 00:44:00,807 --> 00:44:06,771 As victims we have to come out and speak. This is something we chose to do. 738 00:44:06,938 --> 00:44:09,107 Nobody asked us to do this. Jessa and I were talking 739 00:44:09,273 --> 00:44:13,694 [Danielle] The survivors of the abuse go on the Megyn Kelly show, 740 00:44:13,861 --> 00:44:17,115 and are kind of forced to kind of relive that trauma, 741 00:44:17,281 --> 00:44:19,826 and kind of downplay it. 742 00:44:19,992 --> 00:44:23,162 [Jill] In hindsight, I wouldn't have done the Megyn Kelly stuff. 743 00:44:23,329 --> 00:44:29,877 I felt like I was in a place again of bearing the burden and the weight of just 744 00:44:33,673 --> 00:44:41,180 (thickly) Um Even though you volunteer, it's, like, you feel obligated to help. 745 00:44:41,347 --> 00:44:45,560 [Megyn] How old were you when Josh inappropriately touched you? 746 00:44:45,726 --> 00:44:47,311 I was 12. 747 00:44:47,478 --> 00:44:49,105 I do wanna speak up in his defense 748 00:44:49,272 --> 00:44:51,649 against people who are calling him a child molester, 749 00:44:51,816 --> 00:44:56,279 or a pedophile, or a rapist some people are saying. 750 00:44:56,446 --> 00:45:00,158 I'm, like, that is so overboard and a lie, really. 751 00:45:02,118 --> 00:45:04,954 [Derick] The whole Megyn Kelly thing, I would not call it voluntary. 752 00:45:05,121 --> 00:45:10,126 Basically being called on to carry out a suicide mission. 753 00:45:10,293 --> 00:45:13,254 You're gonna destroy yourself, but we need you to take the fall 754 00:45:13,421 --> 00:45:16,924 so that you can carry the show forward, because the show cannot fail. 755 00:45:17,091 --> 00:45:19,802 And they were gonna do whatever they could to get the return on their investment. 756 00:45:19,969 --> 00:45:23,848 If that meant collateral damage, that meant collateral damage. 757 00:45:24,015 --> 00:45:27,310 And in our case, you know, it's very mild compared to what happens to some. 758 00:45:27,477 --> 00:45:29,979 [Jessa] I know so many girls go through things that are way worse. 759 00:45:30,146 --> 00:45:35,026 So, for me, I'm sad, because this is my older brother who I love a lot, 760 00:45:35,193 --> 00:45:38,988 and I had to make that choice to forgive him, you know. 761 00:45:39,155 --> 00:45:41,949 It wasn't something that somebody forced, like, "Oh, you need to do this," 762 00:45:42,116 --> 00:45:45,036 you know, it was like, you have to make that decision for yourself. 763 00:45:46,329 --> 00:45:47,455 [Megyn] Did you fight? 764 00:45:47,622 --> 00:45:48,956 - [Jill] (laughs) No. - [Jessa] No. Girls were sleeping. 765 00:45:49,123 --> 00:45:53,252 We didn't know about it until he went and confessed it to my parents, 766 00:45:53,419 --> 00:45:55,296 - and they shared it with us. No. - Neither one of you 767 00:45:55,463 --> 00:45:57,340 No, none of the victims were aware of what happened. 768 00:45:57,507 --> 00:45:59,133 [Amy] It did feel a little scripted. 769 00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:03,221 It felt like it was maybe a little bit forced. 770 00:46:03,387 --> 00:46:06,641 Jill has strength and tenacity. 771 00:46:06,807 --> 00:46:12,063 She is not one to just keep quiet and silent, 772 00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:17,443 and so she's the one that really did something about Josh 773 00:46:17,610 --> 00:46:21,531 and hit him the night that he tried to do something to her. 774 00:46:21,697 --> 00:46:25,076 (tense music continues) 775 00:46:25,243 --> 00:46:27,286 [Andrew] As a father of three little girls, 776 00:46:27,453 --> 00:46:29,622 this was a brutal hour of television to watch. 777 00:46:29,789 --> 00:46:31,082 [Reporter 5] While there's been a lot of backlash, 778 00:46:31,249 --> 00:46:33,960 lots of people are also coming to his defense, 779 00:46:34,126 --> 00:46:36,462 mostly saying everyone makes mistakes. 780 00:46:36,629 --> 00:46:39,298 [Reporter 6] Their best pal, Mike Huckabee, came to their defense a well. 781 00:46:39,465 --> 00:46:44,262 [Civilian] When the Duggars came out, and their son had molested their child, 782 00:46:44,428 --> 00:46:46,889 you more or less said that you felt sorry for their parents. 783 00:46:47,390 --> 00:46:48,849 [Mike] Ma'am, let me tell you something. 784 00:46:49,016 --> 00:46:50,726 You have no idea what you're talking about. 785 00:46:50,893 --> 00:46:52,603 You don't know that family and I do. 786 00:46:53,104 --> 00:46:55,523 (group clapping) You're done. 787 00:46:55,690 --> 00:46:58,818 [Reporter 7] For months the family presented a united front. 788 00:46:58,985 --> 00:47:03,239 Sisters Jessa and Jill defending their brother on Fox News. 789 00:47:03,406 --> 00:47:08,286 But in the wake of the shocking news, TLC canceled their popular show. 790 00:47:09,870 --> 00:47:13,082 Like, it didn't save everything. It wasn't enough. 791 00:47:15,001 --> 00:47:15,835 Yeah. 792 00:47:17,878 --> 00:47:20,506 [Derick] Jim Bob's clawing to get the show back as quick as possible. 793 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,593 TLC was like, well we can't focus on you and your wife 794 00:47:23,759 --> 00:47:25,595 or any of the kids in the home, 795 00:47:25,761 --> 00:47:28,389 'cause that's too close to ground zero, basically. 796 00:47:28,556 --> 00:47:31,726 But we're gonna focus on the older kids, mostly the ones who are outta the house. 797 00:47:31,892 --> 00:47:33,477 Jill, and Jessa, and their families. 798 00:47:33,644 --> 00:47:35,855 We're gonna name it "Jill and Jessa: Counting On". 799 00:47:36,022 --> 00:47:41,777 [Announcer 2] Counting On, premieres Tuesday, March 15th at nine on TLC. 800 00:47:41,944 --> 00:47:44,530 We were having all these talks about this promo shoot coming up. 801 00:47:44,697 --> 00:47:46,532 We're being pressured to come back. 802 00:47:46,699 --> 00:47:51,078 I didn't want to, but at the same time, I've never said no to my family before. 803 00:47:51,245 --> 00:47:54,874 It's this whole, like, umbrellas of authority thing. That was ingrained in me. 804 00:47:55,041 --> 00:47:59,670 I felt like if I said no, I am not obeying my parents, 805 00:47:59,837 --> 00:48:01,714 and bad things are gonna happen to me. (laughs) 806 00:48:01,797 --> 00:48:02,632 (tense music continues) 807 00:48:02,757 --> 00:48:08,429 IBLP and the teachings draw in people like my dad, 808 00:48:08,596 --> 00:48:14,518 who want this control. It can foster this cult-like environment. 809 00:48:14,685 --> 00:48:18,397 I absolutely think that people would be drawn to that. 810 00:48:18,564 --> 00:48:22,777 [Tia] Bill Gothard, Jim Bob Duggar, these are all feathers of a kind, 811 00:48:22,943 --> 00:48:26,864 with a slightly different outward presentation. 812 00:48:27,031 --> 00:48:30,534 [Lindsey] This was my actual life that these people fucked with. 813 00:48:30,701 --> 00:48:32,870 Along with the Duggars. 814 00:48:33,037 --> 00:48:36,290 [Jill] I said, "We cannot do what you're asking us to do." 815 00:48:36,457 --> 00:48:39,001 Basically, they're like (baby crying) 816 00:48:39,418 --> 00:48:41,712 Well, you have to. 817 00:48:41,879 --> 00:48:43,047 [Heather] I don't think our parents realized 818 00:48:43,214 --> 00:48:46,342 that anything terrible was happening at these training centers. 819 00:48:46,717 --> 00:48:50,763 (tense music continues) 820 00:48:50,930 --> 00:48:54,684 The Gothard teachings take on more power and more power. 821 00:48:54,850 --> 00:48:57,436 [Josh Pease] Gothard starts building these different training centers 822 00:48:57,603 --> 00:48:59,271 all over the world. 823 00:48:59,438 --> 00:49:01,107 [Chad] It was near slave labor 824 00:49:01,273 --> 00:49:04,026 out of young people that he made work at his training centers. 825 00:49:05,444 --> 00:49:07,446 He built that empire off our backs. 826 00:49:07,822 --> 00:49:13,285 [Lara] They would lock you in the prayer room for hours up to days, up to weeks. 827 00:49:13,452 --> 00:49:14,620 [Jill] You have to obey. 828 00:49:14,787 --> 00:49:17,623 Are we gonna get off the plane, and, like, they're gonna arrest us? 829 00:49:17,790 --> 00:49:21,502 [Danielle] I look at that kind of a thing as just further exploitation of the girls. 830 00:49:21,669 --> 00:49:26,298 I didn't know how to say, "I don't want you in my bed." 831 00:49:26,465 --> 00:49:30,720 Whatever was repressed inside of Gothard was spilling out. 832 00:49:30,886 --> 00:49:34,807 Bill never married, and he never had any children. 833 00:49:34,974 --> 00:49:39,019 He pointed at me, and he said, "Don't let this one go." 834 00:49:39,186 --> 00:49:41,105 [Josh Pease] IBLP modeling the exact opposite 835 00:49:41,272 --> 00:49:43,315 of everything that it claims to represent. 836 00:49:43,482 --> 00:49:45,693 The institute had a tremendous amount of money, 837 00:49:45,860 --> 00:49:47,862 and if you could get rid of Bill Gothard, 838 00:49:48,028 --> 00:49:51,532 somebody who was left gets control of all of that cash. 839 00:49:51,699 --> 00:49:56,078 [Jill] You had to sign another deal with my dad. It would be, like, forever. 840 00:49:56,245 --> 00:49:59,498 (tense music continues)