1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:01,480 # 2 00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:02,919 In February, 1922, 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 4 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Winston Churchill predicted to the House of Commons, 5 00:00:07,199 --> 00:00:09,319 that Ireland would turn to civil war, 6 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 7 00:00:10,199 --> 00:00:11,760 and he was soon proved right. 8 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:15,440 (Gunfire) 9 00:00:15,879 --> 00:00:16,879 And he wrote... 10 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,279 ...that "the Irish have a genius for conspiracy rather than for government." 11 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,000 I have before you, British archives, the enemy files, 12 00:00:25,879 --> 00:00:27,720 as far as Ireland is concerned, 13 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,720 to learn how Britain crushed the Easter Rising, 14 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,440 and fought the War of Independence. 15 00:00:34,239 --> 00:00:37,239 And now I'm compelled to return on another centenary, 16 00:00:37,839 --> 00:00:40,720 to discover how Ireland's revolutionary generation, 17 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,199 descended into civil war. 18 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,080 As Michael Collins signed a treaty with the British, 19 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,800 which Eamon de Valera rejected. 20 00:00:48,879 --> 00:00:52,199 And how the British intervened decisively, 21 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:54,720 revealed in these documents, 22 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,599 to ensure that their side won. 23 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,120 # 24 00:01:03,199 --> 00:01:07,120 Here is history that Irish people may prefer not to know. 25 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,680 The Treaty was just the start. 26 00:01:10,839 --> 00:01:14,559 Both the Irish who signed it, and British ministers were agreed, 27 00:01:14,599 --> 00:01:17,239 that they should smash Republican dissenters. 28 00:01:17,279 --> 00:01:21,279 And the willingness of the British to supply artillery and ammunition, 29 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,760 was matched by the zeal of the Irish Provisional Government, 30 00:01:24,919 --> 00:01:26,519 to accept British ordinance, 31 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:28,720 to pulverise the foe. 32 00:01:29,279 --> 00:01:32,720 If the British were the devil, then this was a Faustian pact. 33 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,160 And these British documents reveal how Michael Collins, 34 00:01:36,199 --> 00:01:39,519 on the winning side, reportedly sent a valedictory message, 35 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,800 before dying in a hail of bullets. 36 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,120 "Sir Winston... 37 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,440 "...we could never have done anything, without him." 38 00:01:49,519 --> 00:01:50,519 # 39 00:01:53,199 --> 00:01:54,760 After two years of fighting, 40 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,639 hostilities in the Irish War of Independence, 41 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,120 were halted with a truce. 42 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,000 Called on the 11th of July 1921, 43 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,839 followed by negotiations towards an Anglo-Irish Treaty. 44 00:02:06,639 --> 00:02:07,639 Later that summer, 45 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,440 British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, 46 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,120 accompanied by both his wife and his mistress, 47 00:02:14,239 --> 00:02:18,080 was on a long fishing holiday in a remote Scottish village, Garrol, 48 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:19,800 when he learned that the Dail government, 49 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,120 had rejected the UK government's peace offer, 50 00:02:23,519 --> 00:02:25,720 and would accept only full independence. 51 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,800 He invited the self proclaimed president of the Irish Republic, Eamon de Valera, 52 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,839 to meet him for Treaty talks nearby at Inverness. 53 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,160 After de Valera refused the invitation, 54 00:02:38,279 --> 00:02:40,279 Lloyd George convened the cabinet, 55 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,639 the first time that it had met outside London. 56 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:46,360 # 57 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,080 Military commanders and government officials, 58 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,480 were ordered from Dublin here to Inverness, 59 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,559 and the humbly born, radical Welsh Prime Minister, 60 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,160 David Lloyd George, 61 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,440 summoned his cabinet, including Tory grandees, 62 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,599 to attend his Highland fishing holiday. 63 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,199 And that involved for at least seven of them, 64 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,559 a massive return train journey. 65 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,879 According to the civil servant Tom Jones, 66 00:03:18,199 --> 00:03:21,080 the Conservative Home Secretary Austin Chamberlain, 67 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:26,440 said "this is outrageous, dragging us to Inverness." 68 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,839 And sat up on the sleeper, 69 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,000 with one bottle of whiskey, 70 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:32,559 and six of soda water. 71 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:34,160 # 72 00:03:38,879 --> 00:03:40,720 This is an interesting document. 73 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,279 A bit of paper is passed around the table, 74 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,639 the members of the cabinet who were attending sign it. 75 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,480 You've got Lloyd George at the top, Austin Chamberlain, 76 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,080 Birkenhead. 77 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,080 Down the bottom Winston Churchill, 78 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,360 and in the middle, Stanley Baldwin. 79 00:03:53,639 --> 00:03:56,680 And for discussion is what conditions if any, 80 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,080 should be placed upon a conference with de Valera, and the Irish Republicans. 81 00:04:02,599 --> 00:04:06,080 Yeah, so the difficulty for both Lloyd George and de Valera, 82 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,120 was that, the truce had really em, 83 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,279 engendered expectations amongst the public, 84 00:04:13,319 --> 00:04:15,919 that peace was really very much on the cards. 85 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,199 And the public were war weary, and they wanted their politicians to explore every avenue. 86 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,000 The Inverness cabinet, split into two camps, 87 00:04:26,199 --> 00:04:29,800 a minority who wanted the Irish to accept as a pre-condition, 88 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,040 that there could be no Irish Republic, 89 00:04:33,199 --> 00:04:36,319 and a majority, who were prepared to talk to Sinn Fein, 90 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:37,400 without conditions. 91 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,160 Lloyd George had breakfasted with the king, 92 00:04:41,238 --> 00:04:42,599 on the morning of the cabinet meeting. 93 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:47,639 And the monarch had put pressure on him to be conciliatory in his talks with de Valera. 94 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,839 But Lloyd George sided with the hard liners. 95 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,279 The Irish would have to accept the oath to the Crown, 96 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,839 and remaining inside the Empire. 97 00:04:56,879 --> 00:04:58,519 Or no talks...and no peace. 98 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:04,080 This is Tom Jones writing about Lloyd George's intervention. 99 00:05:04,519 --> 00:05:07,599 "If the Conference started without securing in advance, 100 00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:10,919 "Irish allegiance to the crown and membership of the Empire, 101 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,800 "the discussion would become quite entangled in the Ulster problem, 102 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:16,919 "where we had a very weak case. 103 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,559 "The Conference might break on that point, a very bad one. 104 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,519 "He, Lloyd George, would rather break, if there was to be a break, now, 105 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:28,599 "on allegiance and Empire. 106 00:05:29,238 --> 00:05:31,199 "All this he delivered, very gravely, 107 00:05:33,238 --> 00:05:36,480 "and it obviously shook some of his wobbling colleagues." 108 00:05:36,519 --> 00:05:39,040 Sounds like that was a decisive intervention. 109 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:44,199 Lloyd George, could not confer with people that he'd once branded as the 'murder gang'. 110 00:05:44,238 --> 00:05:49,480 And then...sort of be seen to give way on these vital symbols of the Crown and the Empire, 111 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,000 and allow them to take the PR battle if you like, 112 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:00,199 and win public favour by breaking down on the subject, 113 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,000 on the question of Ulster, 114 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:03,120 because as Lloyd George also says, 115 00:06:03,599 --> 00:06:07,879 the British public might go to war for the Crown and the Empire, 116 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:14,120 but would they go to war to defend the manor in Tyrone? No they wouldn't. 117 00:06:14,639 --> 00:06:18,199 This historic cabinet meeting, prompted a flurry of telegrams, 118 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:19,680 from each side. 119 00:06:20,519 --> 00:06:22,400 And eventually, de Valera agreed, 120 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,199 to what became known as 'The Inverness Formula.' 121 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,279 After the meeting here in Inverness, 122 00:06:29,919 --> 00:06:32,800 David Lloyd George writes to de Valera. 123 00:06:33,879 --> 00:06:36,238 And this is extraordinary, a letter from the Prime Minister, 124 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,879 it comes from the Town Hall, Inverness, September the 7th, 1921, 125 00:06:40,559 --> 00:06:44,199 And it ends up saying "you will agree that this correspondence, 126 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:45,800 "has lasted long enough. 127 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,519 "His Majesty's government, must therefore ask, 128 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:53,120 "for a definite reply, as to whether you're prepared to enter a conference, 129 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,480 "to ascertain, how the association of Ireland, with the community of nations, 130 00:06:57,519 --> 00:06:59,279 "known as the British Empire, 131 00:06:59,319 --> 00:07:02,519 "can best be reconciled with Irish national aspirations." 132 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,839 And that is quite interesting, because the early part of the letter, 133 00:07:06,919 --> 00:07:10,760 makes it perfectly clear, that certain demands are not acceptable, 134 00:07:11,639 --> 00:07:14,919 that it has to be on the basis of membership of the Empire. 135 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,040 On the other hand, that last paragraph says, 136 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,480 let's see how we can somehow accommodate the aspirations of the Irish people. 137 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,319 And that is the key paragraph, 138 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,879 because that is the formula, 139 00:07:26,839 --> 00:07:30,279 the phrase that essentially unlocks the deadlock between, 140 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:33,919 de Valera and Lloyd George. 141 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,519 Dail Eireann had started the process of selecting its negotiating team, 142 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,239 while the exchange of telegrams, 143 00:07:45,279 --> 00:07:47,639 between de Valera and Lloyd George went on. 144 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,199 Meanwhile, the British made sure that they were well prepared, 145 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,360 should the Irish delegation ever make it to London. 146 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,000 Once the negotiations got under way in London, 147 00:07:59,559 --> 00:08:02,080 Brigadier General Ormonde de l'Épée Winter, 148 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:04,360 nicknamed 'O', 149 00:08:05,239 --> 00:08:07,440 who'd conducted British Intelligence operations in Ireland, 150 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,760 masterminded spying against the Irish delegation, 151 00:08:11,519 --> 00:08:13,639 who were headquartered at 22 Hans Place. 152 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,360 O recorded this amusing anecdote. 153 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:22,040 "Although I missed the chance of making the personal acquaintance of Daniel Breen", 154 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:23,800 leader of the IRA in Tipperary, 155 00:08:23,839 --> 00:08:25,800 "I once rubbed shoulders with him, 156 00:08:25,839 --> 00:08:27,800 "after the signing of the truce, 157 00:08:27,839 --> 00:08:31,879 "when we were both making a bet with Dan Leahy, the well-known bookmaker, 158 00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:33,080 "at the Galway races. 159 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,559 "I wondered if he had an automatic in his pocket at the time. 160 00:08:36,599 --> 00:08:37,639 "I know that I had." 161 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,160 Well, in this dossier, I have a detailed report, 162 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,199 from an informant, who met senior members of the Irish delegation, 163 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,720 on the 30th of October, and the 1st of November. 164 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,160 Clearly they trusted the informant, 165 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,679 because they told him everything. 166 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,040 # 167 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,679 The British had mount an intelligence operation, 168 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,279 they want to understand the Irish delegation. 169 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,720 Some of this is by way of profile, 170 00:09:07,639 --> 00:09:10,040 and is maybe pretty low level intelligence, 171 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:11,080 but, for example, 172 00:09:11,199 --> 00:09:14,360 de Valera is described here as a 'school teacher type idealist'. 173 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,559 Feels "Ireland is in bondage, strong on the wrongs to Ireland. 174 00:09:18,879 --> 00:09:23,120 "In the Conference will probably speak at length on the bad treatment of Ireland by England, 175 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,160 "the broken promises, 176 00:09:25,199 --> 00:09:29,080 "the support given by England to the 600,000 Protestants of Ulster, 177 00:09:29,199 --> 00:09:31,040 "the bigotry of the Ulster men." 178 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,080 Well it's a very interesting pen portrait, 179 00:09:33,199 --> 00:09:36,679 because we know that when de Valera met Lloyd George in the summer after the Truce, 180 00:09:38,319 --> 00:09:40,120 he did go on for a very long period of time, in a long winded way, 181 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,599 about British oppression over hundreds and hundreds of years of the Irish. 182 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,800 So I think it's quite close to the truth on how de Valera negotiated, 183 00:09:46,839 --> 00:09:50,360 he wasn't very good at getting to the point in negotiations, 184 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,160 in fact, that may have been one of the reasons why he ultimately didn't go, 185 00:09:53,199 --> 00:09:54,879 to the peace talks in London. 186 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,800 What's also interesting is, that document suggests the British thought he would go. 187 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,839 They thought he would be leading the delegation, 188 00:10:01,879 --> 00:10:04,000 and they built their plans around that. 189 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,679 So I think that's a very revealing document, 190 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,720 everyone thought de Valera would go, 191 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,319 not just on the Irish side. 192 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,679 Of course there are people who suspect more cynical motives for non-attendance. 193 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,519 Yeah, so I think de Valera also realised from those talks with Lloyd George, 194 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,360 just how difficult it would be to get compromise. 195 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,639 One of the things Lloyd George does when he meets de Valera, 196 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,639 is he brings him into his office, 197 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,120 and he shows him a huge map of the British Empire, 198 00:10:25,319 --> 00:10:27,199 and talks about how important the Empire is, 199 00:10:27,239 --> 00:10:30,000 and how much of the world is actually under the Crown. 200 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,879 So I think very quickly de Valera realises 201 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,879 this was something the British weren't going to give way on, 202 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,040 and he didn't want to be associated with talks that might fail. 203 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,239 I think we'll now move on to what I would regard as higher grade intelligence. 204 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,760 And this is based on an informant, 205 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,639 and the informant apparently has contact with the Irish delegation, 206 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,440 on the 30th of October and the 1st of November. 207 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,440 And this note is written to 'O', the head of the espionage operation. 208 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,519 "The general impression given by a conversation with members of the delegation, 209 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,559 "is that the clear statement of the Premier in the House of Commons, 210 00:11:03,639 --> 00:11:05,400 "has made them realise, at last, 211 00:11:05,879 --> 00:11:08,360 "that the government are determined to carry through their propositions. 212 00:11:09,239 --> 00:11:13,239 "This spirit is difficult to recognise through the haze of stubbornness and bravado, 213 00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:15,839 "which the delegates have created around them. 214 00:11:15,879 --> 00:11:18,519 "But the informant states, that in his opinion, 215 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,839 "there's a distinct difference in his conversation today, 216 00:11:21,879 --> 00:11:23,599 "from those he had previously." 217 00:11:23,639 --> 00:11:27,400 So this informant thinks it's sinking in, on the Irish delegation, 218 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:32,160 that the British government is not gonna move on the questions of Crown and Empire. 219 00:11:32,199 --> 00:11:35,440 Yes and I think that some of the delegation realise that quicker than others, 220 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,800 that actually the oath of allegiance was non-negotiable. 221 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:39,120 They were also very worried about the issue of Northern Ireland and Partition. 222 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,239 They've also been in London for some time now. 223 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,080 They're far from home, 224 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,120 they're isolated. 225 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,599 In Dublin they're still expecting this delegation to come home, 226 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,400 with a Republic, and with a removal of the border. 227 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,279 And the delegation themselves in London, are increasingly aware, 228 00:11:56,319 --> 00:11:58,120 that they can't deliver on that. 229 00:11:58,319 --> 00:11:59,319 # 230 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,519 In London, the Plenipotentiaries became a magnate for journalists. 231 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,679 With Michael Collins a particular focus of fascination. 232 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,080 The Irish negotiating team, was also introduced, 233 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,599 to the leading lights of London high society. 234 00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:20,040 Largely thanks to the efforts of one of the city's most celebrated hostesses, 235 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,879 in fashionable South Kensington. 236 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,120 On the 16th of November, 1921, 237 00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:31,360 Michael Collins came here to Cromwell Place, 238 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,279 to be painted by Sir John Lavery, 239 00:12:33,319 --> 00:12:34,319 who wrote... 240 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,000 ..."he walked into my studio, a tall, young Hercules, 241 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,000 "with a pasty face, sparkling eyes, 242 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,120 "and a fascinating smile. 243 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,879 "I helped him off with his overcoat, 244 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,360 "to which he clung, excusing himself by saying casually, 245 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,440 "'there's a gun in the pocket.'". 246 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:08,120 John and Hazel Lavery, became increasingly friendly with the Irish delegation. 247 00:13:09,319 --> 00:13:12,279 And from mid November, they would dine together here quite frequently. 248 00:13:13,599 --> 00:13:15,519 Some friends of the Lavery's thought 249 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,480 that she played an important part of the negotiations. 250 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:21,679 Daisy, the Countess of Fingall commented, 251 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,679 "it might be said truly, that the Irish Treaty was framed, 252 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,879 "and almost signed at 5, Cromwell Place." 253 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,160 Sinead, what a pleasure! 254 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,360 Very nice to meet you. 255 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,400 Great to see you. 256 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:40,400 I'm just wondering... 257 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,120 ...how was it that the Lavery's became involved at all in this business? 258 00:13:45,919 --> 00:13:49,480 Well you have to remember that John Lavery was Belfast born. 259 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,519 He had been orphaned, and had spent a lot of time in Scotland. 260 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,239 Most people would associate him in the art world with the Glasgow Boys, 261 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,440 but he was Irish, 262 00:13:58,319 --> 00:14:01,519 and then he married an American, Hazel Martyn Trudeau. 263 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,239 But she claimed to be Irish, 264 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:05,319 so she had an interest in Ireland. 265 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,400 So they became interested in being a neutral space, 266 00:14:09,599 --> 00:14:11,239 where both sides could meet. 267 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,120 What about the Lavery's connections to the British government, 268 00:14:14,639 --> 00:14:16,160 to Churchill in particular? 269 00:14:16,199 --> 00:14:20,040 Sure, I mean Churchill was a really close friend of the Lavery's, 270 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,760 and I don't say that lightly. 271 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,239 John Lavery would paint with him, 272 00:14:23,839 --> 00:14:26,480 he credited Hazel with teaching him to paint, 273 00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:29,279 and really that relationship was really strong. 274 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,080 What do you think of the assessment of the Countess of Fingall, 275 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,760 that the Irish Treaty was pretty much crafted and almost signed, 276 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:39,480 at 5 Cromwell Place? 277 00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:40,599 Does she exaggerate? 278 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,599 I think the sources that we have for the Lavery's involvement, 279 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,680 come from gossip, 280 00:14:48,839 --> 00:14:50,800 so we know that Barbara Cartland, 281 00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:52,440 Daisy Countess of Fingall, 282 00:14:53,319 --> 00:14:56,319 we have Cleme Churchill talking about Lady Lavery, 283 00:14:56,919 --> 00:15:00,440 travelling in the car to Downing Street in her favourite opera coat. 284 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,360 So we have that sense that we're hearing gossip. 285 00:15:04,239 --> 00:15:06,559 But what I've always been interested in, 286 00:15:06,599 --> 00:15:09,000 is the whole concept of salon politics, 287 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,639 the whole idea of the unwritten, sort of negotiation that happens between people. 288 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:16,080 And I think that's where the Lavery's were very instrumental, 289 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,639 in keeping the lines of communication open, 290 00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:20,839 in a very tense period in Irish history. 291 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:23,480 Here's an interesting document, it's the type script, 292 00:15:23,519 --> 00:15:25,519 on which Churchill has been working, 293 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,080 it's a draft of the 4th Volume of the World Crisis. 294 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,559 And he's talking here, looking back on the Civil War, 295 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,080 about Collins. 296 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,319 "The presentment of death, 297 00:15:37,599 --> 00:15:39,760 "had been strong upon him for some days, 298 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,559 "and he narrowly escaped several murderous traps. 299 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,279 "He sent me a valedictory message through a friend, for which I'm grateful. 300 00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:51,680 "'Tell Winston we could never have done anything, 301 00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:53,519 "'without him.'" 302 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,519 I'm kind of assuming, that the intermediary was indeed, 303 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:01,239 Hazel Lavery. Would you share that assumption? 304 00:16:01,559 --> 00:16:02,559 Hazel or John. 305 00:16:02,599 --> 00:16:04,879 I think that when we think about Hazel, 306 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,199 we have to remember that John outlives her, 307 00:16:08,239 --> 00:16:11,080 so he wants to place her centrally to the story. 308 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,839 Because so much of what was written about her, 309 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,559 was coming from the society magazines, 310 00:16:16,599 --> 00:16:17,839 maybe her detractors. 311 00:16:18,599 --> 00:16:19,599 # 312 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,360 The Anglo-Irish Treaty was signed on the 6th of December, 1921. 313 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,120 Having secured his settlement, 314 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,120 Lloyd George intended to take a back seat on Ireland. 315 00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:36,400 The task of transferring power to the Irish Provisional Government, 316 00:16:37,199 --> 00:16:40,919 was entrusted to one of the great defenders of the British Empire. 317 00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:45,680 David Lloyd George's wizardry, 318 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,680 had induced the Irish delegation to sign the Treaty, 319 00:16:49,319 --> 00:16:53,160 and now the Prime Minister could turn his attention to other things, 320 00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:54,919 unless the pact was in danger. 321 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,839 Winston Churchill was charged with transferring power to the Irish Provisional Government, 322 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,599 steering the Free State Bill through parliament, 323 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:05,839 against Unionist opposition. 324 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,160 He foresaw civil war, 325 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,199 and looked to the coming conflict in terms of good and evil. 326 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,199 Telling the House, "if you want to see Ireland degenerate into a meaningless welter, 327 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,279 "of lawless chaos and confusion, 328 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:23,720 "delay this Bill. 329 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,119 "If you wish to see increasingly serious bloodshed along the borders of Ulster, 330 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,080 "delay this Bill. 331 00:17:32,239 --> 00:17:35,000 "If you want to enable dangerous and extreme men, 332 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,638 "working out schemes of hatred, 333 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,800 "in subterranean secrecy, 334 00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:43,239 "to undermine and overturn a government, 335 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,839 "which is faithfully doing its best, 336 00:17:45,879 --> 00:17:47,440 "to keep its word with us. 337 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,720 "And enabling us to keep our word with it... 338 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:53,879 "...delay this Bill." 339 00:18:02,599 --> 00:18:07,279 Winston Churchill became de facto the Minister for Irish Affairs, North and South. 340 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,480 In a letter to his wife he wrote: "Ireland is sure to bring us every 341 00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:16,400 form of difficulty and embarrassment 342 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,119 and I expect I shall have to bear the brunt at the House of Commons." 343 00:18:21,959 --> 00:18:26,959 There's a very interesting letter here which the Prime Minister Lloyd George writes to Winston Churchill 344 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,839 on the 8th of June 1922, "My dear Winston" it begins. 345 00:18:31,879 --> 00:18:35,879 During the letter it's suggested that there have been exaggerated fears and claims 346 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:42,000 in Ulster that there's going to be an invasion by the IRA from the South. 347 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,160 Lloyd George is concerned that Churchill may go off the rails a bit here. 348 00:18:46,879 --> 00:18:50,919 "Let's keep on the high ground of the Treaty, the Crown, the Empire. 349 00:18:50,959 --> 00:18:54,440 There we are unassailable. But if you come down from that height 350 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,800 and fight in the swats, 351 00:18:56,839 --> 00:18:57,959 you will be overwhelmed. 352 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,080 You've conducted these negotiations with such skill and patience 353 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,319 I beg you not to be tempted into squandering what you have already gained. 354 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,839 by a precipitous action, however alluring the immediate prospect may be. 355 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,080 We've surely done everything that Ulster can possibly expect 356 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:16,239 to ensure its security." 357 00:19:16,599 --> 00:19:19,199 Lloyd George had very good reason for his fears 358 00:19:19,239 --> 00:19:24,080 because Churchill was never afraid of force and one can say in his defence 359 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:28,519 that as a hero and of course he was always seeking to play the hero 360 00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:32,400 that in wars, of national wars, that this was an enormous service to Britain. 361 00:19:34,239 --> 00:19:38,239 But when it came to maintaining control as he saw it of the British Empire, 362 00:19:38,279 --> 00:19:41,959 then it's a very ugly side of Churchill's character. 363 00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:45,040 He was quite unafraid of using violence 364 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,119 and of indeed oppressing subject people. 365 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:53,559 Churchill, the man of action, found himself tempted both north and south of the border. 366 00:19:54,519 --> 00:19:57,839 General Macready writes to him from the General Headquarters in Dublin 367 00:19:57,959 --> 00:20:01,879 on the 14th of February 1922, suggesting that there could be a 368 00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:04,559 coups by de Valera to overturn the Treaty. 369 00:20:04,599 --> 00:20:06,839 Or indeed that de Valera might win an election on the republican ticket. 370 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,279 Macready says, "In default of any instruction on the subject, 371 00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:15,000 I shall declare martial law at once in Dublin. 372 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,279 Tell the provisional government that they will kindly remain quiescent 373 00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:24,359 and I shall take complete charge of the town, railway termini, seaborne traffic etc." 374 00:20:25,239 --> 00:20:31,080 It was a very ugly business and one always has to see that British policy even at this stage 375 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:37,400 was still dedicated to keep effective control of Ireland. 376 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,919 Churchill believed that Ireland was entitled to a measure of self government 377 00:20:42,959 --> 00:20:47,040 but he always believed that must be under the Crown. 378 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,919 He believed that Ireland, even at the '22 settlement should be reunited, 379 00:20:52,959 --> 00:20:55,800 that Ulster should rejoin the Irish Free State. 380 00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:59,919 But on the other hand, he believed that that must be under the Crown. 381 00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:07,800 Early on the morning of the 14th of April 1922, 382 00:21:07,839 --> 00:21:12,119 a force of heavily armed and anti-Treaty IRA men from Tipperary 383 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,839 arrived in Dublin under cover of darkness 384 00:21:16,199 --> 00:21:20,000 and seized the Four Courts, the iconic centre of the Irish legal system. 385 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,080 Viewing this occupation as a direct threat to the Treaty, 386 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,160 the British Government urged Collins to remove the garrison. 387 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,319 The pressure was subtle at first and Collins played for time. 388 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,440 But when two IRA gunmen launched an extraordinary operation in London, 389 00:21:38,879 --> 00:21:41,440 events suddenly spiralled out of control. 390 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:50,559 On the 22nd of June 1922, Sir Henry Wilson, who was the hard-line Security Chief in Northern Ireland, 391 00:21:50,599 --> 00:21:53,519 who had attended in full ceremonial uniform the unveiling 392 00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:57,400 of a war memorial at Liverpool Street Station, 393 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,879 was trailed by two gunmen to his Belgravia home 394 00:22:00,919 --> 00:22:04,359 and shot dead on his doorstep despite drawing his sword in self-defence. 395 00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:10,800 Was Collins involved? The British Government was more inclined to 396 00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:13,359 blame the men holed up in the Four Courts in Dublin. 397 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,359 And at Lloyd George's instigation, Churchill wrote impatiently to Collins 398 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,359 to ask him formally to bring the situation to an end. 399 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,599 "The British Government are prepared to place at your disposal 400 00:22:27,638 --> 00:22:32,800 the necessary pieces of artillery which may be required." 401 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,279 On the day of Henry Wilson's assassination, Lloyd George wrote to Michael Collins 402 00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:43,319 claiming that documents had been found on the murderers that clearly 403 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,599 connected them with the IRA garrison; 404 00:22:46,879 --> 00:22:51,599 and that the British Government had a right to expect that necessary action against Rory O'Connor 405 00:22:51,638 --> 00:22:54,839 and the occupation of the Four Courts would be taken without delay. 406 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,279 Meanwhile, Churchill was talking about converting Dublin into a Pale once more, 407 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,519 with a bombardment from the sky. 408 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,480 The Bristol F2B was introduced as a fighter during the Great War. 409 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,319 But it was capable of carrying 12 20-pound bombs. 410 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,119 And as the siege of the Four Courts continued, 411 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,638 four Royal Air Force planes were readied to bomb the 412 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,119 centre of the city on behalf of the Provisional Government of Ireland. 413 00:23:31,559 --> 00:23:37,040 The Bristol Fighters based at Collinstown were being readied for action. 414 00:23:39,839 --> 00:23:41,400 Here is a very interesting memo. 415 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,199 It's a telegram. 416 00:23:43,239 --> 00:23:49,720 It's dated the 29th of June and it's written by Churchill to be passed on to Michael Collins. 417 00:23:50,879 --> 00:23:55,680 "Aeroplanes to be used by untrained persons for bombing will be a grave danger to you 418 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,040 and very likely to lead to blowing up of a lot of women and children. 419 00:24:00,199 --> 00:24:06,480 Our aeroplanes manned by their own pilots will carry out any needed operations. 420 00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:10,839 They could quickly be painted in Free State colours to show that 421 00:24:10,879 --> 00:24:12,879 they were an essential part of your forces." 422 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,480 This is a most extraordinary document. 423 00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:22,199 So Churchill is proposing here that RAF crews bomb the Four Courts 424 00:24:22,239 --> 00:24:26,239 but that the planes be painted so they could be disguised 425 00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:29,040 as though they were flying for the Provisional Government. 426 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,040 Yeah, obviously it points to the problem that the Irish Air Force as was 427 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,160 just didn't really have the capability and certainly didn't have the experience. 428 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,239 You have the RAF here at Collinstown, who have the planes and the material. 429 00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:42,400 It would have been a quick run into the city centre. 430 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,000 But they didn't want the imagery of British planes over the Dublin skies. 431 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,720 So this sleight of hand, of painting them in the Irish colours 432 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,119 to make them identifiable on Collins' side, 433 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,000 was a way the Four Courts could be attacked from the air. 434 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,239 Meanwhile the British are doubting whether they have bomb power 435 00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:03,279 to do the job. 436 00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:08,638 Here's a conference of ministers which is held on June the 23rd 1922. 437 00:25:09,879 --> 00:25:14,480 Air Marshall Trenchard states that the machines at Dublin, 438 00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:19,480 the ones that were here were capable only of dropping light bombs of 20 pounds. 439 00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:21,800 "These would knock out the upper storeys of the buildings 440 00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:24,119 but could not be counted upon to penetrate. 441 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,959 It would be better to employ heavier bombs of 350 or 500 pounds." 442 00:25:30,919 --> 00:25:33,599 Quite extraordinary, the level of violence that is being contemplated. 443 00:25:33,638 --> 00:25:38,559 It is and they're in terms of the time very big bombs that he's talking about. 444 00:25:39,559 --> 00:25:41,839 I think the problem again is the practicality. 445 00:25:41,879 --> 00:25:43,879 Could a plane lift a bomb that heavy? 446 00:25:44,319 --> 00:25:47,080 Even if it could get in the air, could it drop it in the right place? 447 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:48,879 In case we're in any doubt as to 448 00:25:48,919 --> 00:25:52,040 whether this operation was taken seriously by the British Government, 449 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,959 what I've got here are log book entries. 450 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:01,239 On the 28th of June, there was a flight here at 18.30. 451 00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:05,638 It says quite clearly here, "Reconnaissance, Practice Bombing". 452 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,559 This is not just an idle plan, this is something that is being built 453 00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:15,040 around military preparedness for the IRA practising in theory to fly 454 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,040 over the city and bomb the Four Courts. 455 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,519 It's remarkable how gung ho Churchill is that he believes... 456 00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:26,839 He's constantly looking for solutions. 457 00:26:26,879 --> 00:26:30,599 Even in the case of air power, relatively untested technology, 458 00:26:30,638 --> 00:26:34,599 certainly again within the setting of this major city, 459 00:26:34,638 --> 00:26:35,879 so forceful but misguided. 460 00:26:40,199 --> 00:26:44,000 By the night of Tuesday 27th of June 1922, 461 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,638 Michael Collins could no longer resist British demands to move from the Four Courts. 462 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,919 He sent a force of around 500 Provisional Government troops 463 00:26:52,959 --> 00:26:57,638 to surround the building and two 18-pounder field guns, 464 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,599 borrowed from the British Army, were wheeled into place across the Liffey. 465 00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:05,559 At 4 in the morning of the 28th of June, 466 00:27:05,599 --> 00:27:07,279 the bombardment began. 467 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,279 (EXPLOSION) 468 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,480 The British saw the occupation of the Four Courts here in the heart of Dublin 469 00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:19,959 by anti-Treaty forces week after week absolutely as a test 470 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,400 of the credibility of the Provisional Government. 471 00:27:24,239 --> 00:27:25,239 (EXPLOSIONS) 472 00:27:26,638 --> 00:27:30,839 Churchill grew impatient and issued an ultimatum in the House of Commons. 473 00:27:32,239 --> 00:27:36,480 "The presence in Dublin in violent occupation of the Four Courts 474 00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:38,839 of a band of men styling themselves 475 00:27:38,879 --> 00:27:42,400 the Headquarters of the Republican Executive 476 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,638 is a gross breach and defiance of the Treaty. 477 00:27:45,919 --> 00:27:48,359 Unless the occupation were brought to an end, 478 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,760 a very speedy end, then the Government would regard the Treaty 479 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,359 as having been formally violated 480 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,800 and would resume full liberty of action." 481 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,319 The attempt by Collins to retake the Four Courts begins in earnest 482 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,319 almost immediately after Churchill has issued in the House of Commons an ultimatum. 483 00:28:12,959 --> 00:28:16,119 Yes and Collins was dismayed by this. 484 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,480 Rory O'Connor, the leader of the Four Courts Garrison, 485 00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:22,279 and the others were anxious that the British should attack them. 486 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,319 That would unite the Irish, he hoped, against the British, 487 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,000 reopen the war against the British. 488 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,800 He wanted to provoke Collins into an attack. 489 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,000 If Rory O'Connor inside the Four Courts was setting a trap, 490 00:28:36,879 --> 00:28:39,400 Churchill very nearly fell into it. 491 00:28:40,319 --> 00:28:45,080 I have here the proclamation by General Macready 492 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,559 in typed form but the draft is here in manuscript. 493 00:28:49,879 --> 00:28:51,879 We see the workings of this proclamation. 494 00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:55,800 We see the crossings out, we see what it eventually becomes. 495 00:28:56,279 --> 00:29:00,440 The last paragraph of this proclamation is from General Macready: 496 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,639 "I've therefore received instructions to clear the Four Courts of the lawless persons 497 00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:10,160 who have occupied them and to take such persons into British military custody, 498 00:29:10,199 --> 00:29:12,559 pending their further disposal. 499 00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:14,879 These instructions have been duly carried out." 500 00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:16,279 Except they weren't. 501 00:29:16,919 --> 00:29:18,239 They weren't carried out. 502 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,360 And Macready didn't really want them to be carried out. 503 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,800 He was a clever man. He disliked the Irish but he was a very, very clever man 504 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,440 and he knew that if he attacked the Four Courts 505 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,680 it would force Collins into an effective alliance 506 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,080 with Rory O'Connor. 507 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,559 It would reopen the Anglo-Irish War, the War of Independence, 508 00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:40,000 that was an appalling prospect for a man who wanted to get out of Ireland with his head held high. 509 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,559 He didn't want to implement these decisions, 510 00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:45,239 so he played for time. 511 00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:51,760 Fortunately for him and of course fortunately for Collins, he didn't need to implement them. 512 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,440 Collins went ahead and did the job himself. 513 00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:55,919 Now here's an extraordinary thing. 514 00:29:55,959 --> 00:30:01,360 Here is a note written by Maurice Hankey, the Cabinet Secretary, on the 23rd of October of that year. 515 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,800 Significant because a few days before Churchill has ceased to be a minister 516 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,519 because Lloyd George has ceased to be prime minister. 517 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,639 He says, "I received a telephone message from Mr Churchill's 518 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,599 private secretary asking me to destroy the draft Proclamation 519 00:30:16,639 --> 00:30:18,120 that referred to in these notes. 520 00:30:18,919 --> 00:30:20,919 Mr Curtis also wrote me the note attached. 521 00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:25,800 I was unwilling to take responsibility of destroying the document." 522 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,519 How extraordinary that Churchill is after destroying this Proclamation. 523 00:30:29,559 --> 00:30:32,680 He obviously didn't want history to record 524 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,599 how close he'd come to a terrible blunder. 525 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:35,760 Yes. 526 00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:38,760 Hankey was obviously a good civil servant. 527 00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:43,639 Churchill must have by then been mortified at the memory of what he wanted to do. 528 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,080 The blunder that he nearly charged into. 529 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,919 You have the extraordinary pattern that he and Rory O'Connor wanted the same thing, 530 00:30:49,959 --> 00:30:54,040 wanted a war between the British and the Four Courts Garrison. 531 00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:58,040 Macready didn't. Collins didn't. 532 00:30:58,239 --> 00:31:01,400 Churchill was rightly ashamed of the role that he had played. 533 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,519 The Provisional Government's forces eventually took the Four Courts 534 00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:10,440 after a three day bombardment. 535 00:31:10,879 --> 00:31:13,360 But there were other republican garrisons in the city 536 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:14,760 and the fighting continued on the streets of Dublin. 537 00:31:16,919 --> 00:31:19,480 British assistance was still needed. 538 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,000 As a former Secretary of State for Defence, 539 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,879 I'm struck by one item of business in particular that landed on the desk of one of my predecessors. 540 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,480 I've got here the conclusions of a meeting of the Cabinet 541 00:31:33,639 --> 00:31:37,599 on the 4th of July, 1922. 542 00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:43,279 "The Cabinet were informed that the Irish Free State Government had intimated 543 00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:48,040 that if they could be supplied with some form of gas grenades, 544 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,160 their task at clearing the rebels out of their strongholds 545 00:31:52,199 --> 00:31:53,360 would be greatly simplified. 546 00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:58,080 The view was expressed that having regard to the Washington Convention 547 00:31:58,639 --> 00:32:02,160 on subject of poison gas, it would be improper for the British Government 548 00:32:02,199 --> 00:32:07,760 to supply the Free State Government of Ireland with the gas of lethal 549 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:08,919 or permanently injurious character." 550 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,000 Did you have any idea that the Provisional Government could ask the British for gas? 551 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,919 I didn't. 552 00:32:16,959 --> 00:32:18,000 I think it odd. 553 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,639 I think it disconcerting, worrying and embarrassing 554 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,199 that an Irish Government should have wanted that, 555 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,040 after all the consequences of gas in the trenches in the First World War, 556 00:32:27,959 --> 00:32:31,760 were by now by 1922, very, very widely known. 557 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,559 Maybe it was a sign of desperation. 558 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,239 Three days after the Anti-Treaty garrisons had been cleared from Dublin, 559 00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:44,239 Churchill sent Collins a letter of congratulations, commenting that: 560 00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:48,519 "The events which have taken place since you opened fire on the Four Courts 561 00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:53,080 seem to me to have in them the possibilities of very great hope 562 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,160 for the peace and ultimate unity of Ireland." 563 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,239 There is also an interesting P.S. to Churchill's letter: 564 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,760 "I hope you are taking good care of yourself and your colleagues. 565 00:33:04,919 --> 00:33:07,639 The times are very dangerous." 566 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,160 But Michael Collins didn't heed Churchill's warning. 567 00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:21,879 Churchill had at first regarded Collins simply as a murderer. 568 00:33:21,919 --> 00:33:25,319 And then, as a kindred spirit man of action. 569 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,639 And after the signing of the Treaty, 570 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,480 as a person of dubious reliability. 571 00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:33,080 His reaction to his death was unsentimental. 572 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,879 He feared simply that it might clear the way 573 00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:39,400 for an accommodation between the civil warring factions. 574 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,919 He wrote, almost immediately, 575 00:33:41,959 --> 00:33:44,040 to Andy Cope at Dublin Castle. 576 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,639 "The danger to be avoided is a sloppy accommodation 577 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,879 with a quasi repentant De Valera. 578 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,879 It may well be that he will take advantage of the present situation, 579 00:33:53,919 --> 00:33:57,239 to try to get back from the position of a hunted rebel 580 00:33:57,279 --> 00:33:59,720 to that of a political negotiator. 581 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,599 You should do everything in your power to frustrate this." 582 00:34:03,639 --> 00:34:04,639 # (music) 583 00:34:11,518 --> 00:34:13,719 Caoimhe, what do you think of Churchill's fear 584 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,120 immediately after Collins' death - that this may 585 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,080 bring the two warring factions together? 586 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,719 Certainly, the death of Collins following so quickly on the death 587 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,879 of Griffith, you know, removes the two known quantities 588 00:34:24,919 --> 00:34:27,839 from the British perspective. Collins and Griffith are men 589 00:34:27,879 --> 00:34:31,120 that they negotiated the treaty with. They're partners I suppose 590 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,719 in this new arrangement, new political arrangement, 591 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,639 are suddenly gone from the scene/ 592 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:36,680 # (music) 593 00:34:38,319 --> 00:34:42,839 After Collins' death, Churchill appealed to WT Cosgrave 594 00:34:42,879 --> 00:34:46,719 and other pro treaty figures to make the life sacrifice 595 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,319 of Michael Collins a bond of future Irish unity. 596 00:34:51,518 --> 00:34:55,000 Warning against any accommodation with anti-treaty forces. 597 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,199 But Churchill needn't have worried. 598 00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:02,319 The new leaders of the provisional government had no appetite 599 00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:05,040 for compromising with the enemy. 600 00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:11,319 It seems that the British view on this began to change fairly quickly. 601 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,680 Here's a cabinet minute of September the 21st: 602 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,400 "There seemed to be the general feeling that Cosgrave 603 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,160 with his administrative experience 604 00:35:19,199 --> 00:35:23,279 upon the Dublin Corporation would be much more likely to overcome 605 00:35:23,319 --> 00:35:25,199 these difficulties than Collins 606 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,279 with his cinema and stat turn attitudinising." 607 00:35:29,319 --> 00:35:30,400 (Caoimhe laughs) 608 00:35:30,959 --> 00:35:34,959 Yeah. I mean Cosgrave, his political journey begins 609 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,239 in pre Rising Sinn Fein. So pre Republican Sinn Fein. 610 00:35:39,279 --> 00:35:43,120 This is the Sinn Fein of the Arthur Griffith era, 611 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,800 when they're interested in, you know, 612 00:35:44,839 --> 00:35:47,040 novel political arrangements like a dual monarchy. 613 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,120 They're not fixated on a republic. 614 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,760 Whereas Collins comes from a very different political background. 615 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,639 He is an IRB man, he is a Fenian. 616 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,599 His maneuvering even after the Four Courts, he still is retaining 617 00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:02,120 hope that there might be some possibility of a reproachment. 618 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,760 There might be some way that they can march together on the North, for example. 619 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,319 So there are questions around how reliable Collins is to deliver the Treaty. 620 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,160 And then of course, the nature of Collins' death, 621 00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:14,279 killed in action at such a young age, 622 00:36:14,319 --> 00:36:15,959 cements that celebrity status. 623 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,279 And the funeral really is the kind of the pinnacle of that. 624 00:36:19,319 --> 00:36:22,199 Kevin O'Higgins is the Free State minister of justice: 625 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,400 Sir Francis Greer, the chief legal adviser to the British colonial office 626 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,040 says of him, "His performance has been admirable. 627 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,360 I'm amazed by the firmness and loyalty 628 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,080 he's shown by taking a stand on the treaty. 629 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,360 His attitude has been just what we would have dictated 630 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,040 had we been in a position to do so." 631 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,879 I might just remind you that O'Higgins 632 00:36:43,919 --> 00:36:45,760 signed 77 death warrants. 633 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,000 Yeah. Including one for his friend Rory O'Connor, 634 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,480 who had been best man at his wedding. 635 00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:58,279 The executions of the Civil War are not all of the leadership of the Republican movement. 636 00:36:58,319 --> 00:37:01,559 Across the board, what you see is it's rank and file soldiers, 637 00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:03,160 sometimes very, very young, 638 00:37:03,199 --> 00:37:05,559 who are the ones selected for execution. 639 00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:09,680 And there's been some interesting work that shows how, you know, 640 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,000 the geographical excursion of those executions 641 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,199 happen all across Ireland, in the four corners of the country, 642 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,800 and it's a way of kind of projecting and displaying, 643 00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:18,839 state power. 644 00:37:18,879 --> 00:37:21,800 You see as a Brit looking at these things for the first time, 645 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,639 I'm struck by how painful this must be. 646 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,760 That the anti treatites kill Michael Collins, 647 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,719 and what apparently they actually achieve in that moment 648 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,279 is to make things much better for the British by introducing 649 00:37:34,319 --> 00:37:37,680 a new leadership which is even more wedded to the Treaty. 650 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,800 I think that's one of the reasons why Collins' death is so compelling. 651 00:37:40,839 --> 00:37:42,279 Even a hundred years on. 652 00:37:42,319 --> 00:37:45,080 You have all of these kinda sliding door moments; 653 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,559 what if Collins would have lived? 654 00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:49,239 You know, would there have been a different sort of Ireland? 655 00:37:49,279 --> 00:37:51,800 Would there have been a different course to the Civil War? 656 00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:54,160 Would something different have happened vis a vis the North? 657 00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:57,000 So the death of Collins closes down all those possibilities, 658 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,518 all those different paths that might have been taken. 659 00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:00,559 # (music) 660 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,559 Michael Collins and Arthur Griffith, 661 00:38:06,599 --> 00:38:09,719 the two leading Irish signatures of the treaty, 662 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,839 had died within ten days of each other in August 1922. 663 00:38:14,879 --> 00:38:18,160 A few weeks later, the two men who'd steered the treaty 664 00:38:18,199 --> 00:38:21,760 through Britain's parliament were both removed from office. 665 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,919 On October the 19th 1922, 666 00:38:27,959 --> 00:38:30,239 the Conservative parliamentary party 667 00:38:30,279 --> 00:38:33,040 met here at the parties club at the Carlton 668 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,680 There was a spirited debate. 669 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:40,599 And then it voted to withdraw from the government coalition with the Liberals. 670 00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:43,080 Since David Lloyd George was a liberal, 671 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,919 he had to resign. Bringing to an end almost 17 years in office, 672 00:38:47,959 --> 00:38:50,559 and nearly six as prime minister. 673 00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:55,599 Conservative back benchers would found the 1922 committee. 674 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,160 Called after the year in which the ousted Lloyd George. 675 00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:03,680 The name oozes menace for any leader. 676 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,160 # (music) 677 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,080 The pro unionist die hards in the Conservative Party 678 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,279 saw the treaty as a humiliating sell Sinn Fein, 679 00:39:18,319 --> 00:39:21,599 and a threat to Northern Ireland, and to the empire. 680 00:39:21,879 --> 00:39:24,040 Their opposition to the settlement 681 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,719 had fatally cost Lloyd George his coalition, 682 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,559 the support of some conservative MPs. 683 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,559 Niamh, just before being brought down 684 00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:35,680 Lloyd George had been going through a tricky time. 685 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,480 He'd been selling honour for cash. Mm-hmm. 686 00:39:38,518 --> 00:39:41,959 And there'd been a horrible bi election result for the coalition. 687 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,639 But how important a factor do you think Ireland was? 688 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,199 Ireland was very important to the Carlton Club rebellion 689 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:48,680 in October 1922. 690 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:49,719 # (music) 691 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,120 Bonar Law was absolutely against any negotiation with Sinn Fein. 692 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:54,879 Whom he deemed terrorists. 693 00:39:54,919 --> 00:39:57,239 The murder gang, that word that Lloyd George had used 694 00:39:57,279 --> 00:40:00,040 to describe them was what Bonar Law continued to describe them. 695 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,199 And so because of that, 696 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,040 he helped influence that vote that was decisively against the coalition. 697 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,599 Causing Lloyd George to therefore no longer be prime minister. 698 00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:09,639 # (music) 699 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,440 The government very quickly contemplated holding a general election. 700 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,760 And Leo Amery, who has become the First Lord of the Admiralty 701 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,518 writes to the new prime minister Bonar Law, 702 00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:27,599 and he is recommending to him pretty much an election manifesto. 703 00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:31,160 And on Ireland, Leo Amery has drafted the following: 704 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,959 "The Free State government must be given a fair chance to restore 705 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,239 orderly government in Southern Ireland. 706 00:40:36,279 --> 00:40:39,719 Which it is obviously endeavoring to do amid great difficulties. 707 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,599 But the government must insist on the protection 708 00:40:42,639 --> 00:40:45,639 of the Unionist minority, and on full compensation 709 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,400 for damage done. There must be no interference with the rights 710 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,599 and position of Ulster." Do you think that represents 711 00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:55,080 a toughening of language under Bonar Law? 712 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,639 I don't think it represents a toughening. 713 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,559 I think Bonar Law and those who clearly wrote that view 714 00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:03,839 they wanted to make sure that Ulster was protected, 715 00:41:03,879 --> 00:41:06,518 Unionist minorities were protected, 716 00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:08,879 and they were very happy to give the Free State whatever 717 00:41:08,919 --> 00:41:11,400 loosening in ties of sovereignty from London could be given. 718 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,800 As long as those who are against it, or those who threaten Ulster 719 00:41:14,839 --> 00:41:17,239 or indeed the Unionist minority that are still in the Free State 720 00:41:17,279 --> 00:41:18,559 are quashed. 721 00:41:21,879 --> 00:41:23,680 On becoming prime minister, 722 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,440 Andrew Bonar Law called a general election. 723 00:41:26,959 --> 00:41:31,040 And on the 15th of November 1922 led the Conservative Party 724 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,599 to an overall majority. 725 00:41:33,279 --> 00:41:35,959 A big casualty in the polls was Winston Churchill, 726 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,040 who lost his seat. 727 00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:40,360 He'd just been operated on for appendicitis. 728 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,120 and was too weak to hit the campaign trail. 729 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,518 Churchill later wrote that he was without an office, 730 00:41:46,559 --> 00:41:47,719 without a seat, 731 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:48,879 without a party, 732 00:41:48,919 --> 00:41:50,639 and without an appendix. 733 00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:55,639 For Lloyd George, it was the end of his career in high office. 734 00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,559 But he left believing he had solved the Irish question. 735 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,480 Looking back on the career of David Lloyd George, 736 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,400 he made great progress with the Irish question. 737 00:42:09,919 --> 00:42:12,480 How do you assess Lloyd George's roll 738 00:42:12,518 --> 00:42:15,080 and Lloyd George's sentiment about Ireland? 739 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,839 He thought he'd fixed the problem. 740 00:42:16,879 --> 00:42:20,719 That long standing, age old Irish question had now been solved. 741 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:21,760 Matter done. 742 00:42:22,279 --> 00:42:23,879 Winston Churchill for example 743 00:42:23,919 --> 00:42:26,919 talked about it being a heroic, historic moment. 744 00:42:26,959 --> 00:42:30,599 That finally the embittered question of decades was now at an end. 745 00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:34,199 He saw it as done. In fact so many British ministers did. 746 00:42:34,518 --> 00:42:36,959 Took them quite a few decades to realise that it wasn't. 747 00:42:37,839 --> 00:42:38,839 # (music) 748 00:42:41,839 --> 00:42:45,120 Nestled on a hilltop in the Phoenix Park, 749 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,199 the magazine fort for much of its 300 year history 750 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:50,879 bustling military village. 751 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,760 Soldiers, officers, 752 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,839 and their families, 753 00:42:53,879 --> 00:42:57,040 living and working in the buildings within its walls. 754 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:58,080 # (music) 755 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,080 It's even been argued that the opening shots 756 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,000 of the Easter Rising were fired here, 757 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,279 as part of a Republican raid for arms. 758 00:43:06,319 --> 00:43:07,319 # (music) 759 00:43:09,919 --> 00:43:12,760 With the route of the anti treaty forces in Dublin. 760 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,919 Lloyd George's government was satisfied that the national army 761 00:43:16,959 --> 00:43:19,639 had the situation in Ireland under control. 762 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,360 Now the British had a dilemma 763 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,360 over what to do with its remaining troops in Ireland. 764 00:43:30,879 --> 00:43:34,719 By June 1922, most British soldiers had left Ireland, 765 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,239 but about 6,000 remained in Dublin 766 00:43:37,279 --> 00:43:40,518 under the command of General Neville Macready. 767 00:43:40,879 --> 00:43:43,959 The British government was keen to insure the stability 768 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,080 of the provisional government of the Irish Free State. 769 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,680 And ready to support the treaty side. 770 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,959 The British also needed a contingency plan 771 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,360 in case the Republicans got the other upper hand. 772 00:43:56,559 --> 00:44:01,279 And Macready was around to provide what he called a watching brief. 773 00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:05,959 In October, Churchill expressed the fear that a further withdrawal 774 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,680 would weaken the provisional government. 775 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,120 But Macready argued that his troops were vulnerable to attack, 776 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,959 and by then too few to make any difference in an emergency. 777 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,959 And so the last of them left the royal barracks. 778 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,319 And shipped from Dublin Port with their horses and equipment 779 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,959 on the 12th of December 1922. 780 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,000 # (music) 781 00:44:33,879 --> 00:44:35,639 Throughout 1922, 782 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:41,040 the civil and military arms of the British state were dismantled across the 26 counties. 783 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,639 Dublin Castle is handed over to the provisional government in January. 784 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,800 The Royal Irish Constabulary was disbanded. 785 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,120 While the Black and Tans and the Auxiliaries were quickly evacuated. 786 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,879 The Union flag was replaced by the tricolour. 787 00:44:59,518 --> 00:45:03,440 But perhaps the mot symbolic moment of all occurred at Windsor Castle. 788 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,480 # (music) 789 00:45:05,559 --> 00:45:09,199 On the 12th of June 1922 in a ceremony 790 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,680 in Saint George's Hall in Windsor Castle. 791 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,719 King George V received back the colours of Irish regiments 792 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,400 that were being abandoned on the establishment of the Irish Free State. 793 00:45:20,919 --> 00:45:24,239 He offered to look after them in perpetuity. 794 00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:27,599 # (music) 795 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,639 Using this photograph from 1922, 796 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,239 we are following the route of the soldiers, bearing their colours. 797 00:45:37,279 --> 00:45:39,760 How do you see the significance of this moment? 798 00:45:40,879 --> 00:45:43,959 I think the ceremony really marks a really important 799 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,400 turning point in the history between Ireland and Britain. 800 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,160 And it essentially symbolises a British military withdrawal. 801 00:45:51,199 --> 00:45:53,239 Perhaps even a British military defeat 802 00:45:53,279 --> 00:45:56,319 in terms of the historic presents of Britain in Ireland. 803 00:45:57,599 --> 00:46:00,199 The pass inside Saint George's Hall 804 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:01,919 and there the ceremony occurs. 805 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,800 What was the reaction of the people who were present there that day? 806 00:46:05,839 --> 00:46:09,239 Well George V addresses the soldiers and officers. 807 00:46:09,279 --> 00:46:12,839 And the reaction is very emotional. Men are crying. 808 00:46:12,879 --> 00:46:15,599 This is a really interesting moment in history 809 00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:18,279 because the British Empire's still expanding. 810 00:46:18,319 --> 00:46:19,639 They've won the First World War, 811 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,440 they're expanding into parts of the Middle East... 812 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,279 The thoughts of home bring us to the biggest story of all. 813 00:46:24,319 --> 00:46:28,120 The inspiring tale of a little nation that has encompassed he world. 814 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,839 One of the smallest countries on the map is responsible 815 00:46:30,879 --> 00:46:33,559 for one of the mightiest common wealths in history. 816 00:46:34,879 --> 00:46:38,000 What's happening in Ireland we can see as a kind of 817 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,959 early form of decolonisation. 818 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,199 Britain is withdrawing from it's first colony. 819 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:43,639 Now why has that happened? 820 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,959 Partly it's happened because the world had changed. 821 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,000 In a post war age of self determination, 822 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,040 and an age of democracy 823 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,279 it's becoming increasingly more difficult to make the argument for 824 00:46:53,319 --> 00:46:55,800 imperialism, and I think we're seeing here one of 825 00:46:55,839 --> 00:46:59,518 the first kind of examples of that kind of phenomenon unfolding. 826 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,040 So thinking about the tears that were shed in this room, 827 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,959 it seems that both Irish Republicans 828 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,040 and British Imperialists are quite gloomy at this moment. 829 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,199 Yeah, there's a really interest symmetry for Irish Republicans 830 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,080 who think that the Free State would be 831 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,199 permanently locked into the British Empire. 832 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,120 And in a sense they've lost the struggle for independence. 833 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,719 If you look at the other side, if you look at die hard imperialists 834 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,319 and Conservatives in the House of Lords. 835 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,839 They think this is the beginning of the end of an empire. 836 00:47:24,879 --> 00:47:26,480 Ireland has been let go. 837 00:47:26,518 --> 00:47:28,319 Its been given its own government. 838 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,400 It will only build upon that freedom, 839 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,760 and other parts of the empire will follow. 840 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:33,800 And of course, 841 00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:37,480 the fascinating thing is nobody knows who's right in 1921 or 1922. 842 00:47:37,518 --> 00:47:39,199 Just to complete the register of misery, 843 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:40,480 those who support the treaty 844 00:47:40,518 --> 00:47:42,120 are not all that happy either. 845 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,680 No, I mean supporters of the treaty are painfully aware 846 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,559 that they haven't got what they fought for. 847 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:50,040 It's not the republic that they took an oath to defend 848 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,319 and it's not the republic that their comrades died for. 849 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,400 And then they have to fight the Civil War to defend 850 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,559 this very partial step forward towards independence. 851 00:47:58,599 --> 00:48:00,160 So it's a tragedy all round. 852 00:48:00,199 --> 00:48:01,199 # (music) 853 00:48:02,599 --> 00:48:03,599 (gunshots) 854 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,760 The Irish Civil War has historically been 855 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,400 the cause of bitterness and shame. 856 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:12,879 It was fought between Irish people, 857 00:48:12,919 --> 00:48:16,279 those who had made a deal with the British, like Collins, 858 00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:18,719 and those opposed, like De Valera. 859 00:48:19,319 --> 00:48:22,360 But these documents reveal to what extent those who 860 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,440 supported the treaty were aligned with the British. 861 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,199 Who supplied the weaponry that enabled them to win. 862 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:30,719 (canon fire) 863 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,559 I'm shocked to discover that Churchill wanted 864 00:48:36,599 --> 00:48:40,440 thinly disguised British planes to bomb the centre of Dublin. 865 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,440 And that the Irish Provisional Government asked for poison 866 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,760 gas to use against its Irish opponents. 867 00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:50,639 A request so outrageous that the British refused. 868 00:48:53,518 --> 00:48:57,360 A few years after De Valera and Collins had fought to the death, 869 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:58,839 the death of Collins, 870 00:48:58,879 --> 00:49:00,080 and may others. 871 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,800 Much of what both men had always wanted was achieved. 872 00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:06,120 The oath to the king is discarded, 873 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,800 and then Ireland became a republic. 874 00:49:08,839 --> 00:49:10,879 And to Britain's great pain, 875 00:49:10,919 --> 00:49:14,199 that began the sunset of the empire. 876 00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:15,959 Although out of the commonwealth, 877 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,559 Eire's many common interests with Britain 878 00:49:18,599 --> 00:49:20,319 will still keep the two nations 879 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,319 close partners in the years to come. 880 00:49:22,959 --> 00:49:25,760 When I was British Secretary of the State for Defence, 881 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,120 helicoptered into British barracks, smuggled into South Armagh, 882 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,760 I saw how pain afflicted Ireland still. 883 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,000 But while the British had crushed the Easter Rising, 884 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,680 and ended the War of Independence, and secured the Treaty. 885 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,839 Lloyd George and Churchill created a settlement 886 00:49:43,879 --> 00:49:46,120 that pleased neither imperialists, 887 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:47,319 nor Unionists, 888 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:48,480 no Republican. 889 00:49:48,959 --> 00:49:50,680 And a hundred years later, 890 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,400 many in Ireland live still with a second best for them, 891 00:49:54,839 --> 00:49:58,160 but at least now they can live in peace. 892 00:49:58,559 --> 00:49:59,559 # (music) 893 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:24,160 Subtitling RTE 2023.