1 00:00:01,275 --> 00:00:03,172 She's abusive! 2 00:00:05,620 --> 00:00:06,758 [sighs] 3 00:00:16,309 --> 00:00:20,689 [sniffs] I couldn't [bleep] stand up to that woman! 4 00:00:21,620 --> 00:00:22,965 I could today. 5 00:00:24,724 --> 00:00:27,586 I could now, with distance and space and clarity. 6 00:00:27,586 --> 00:00:28,862 I could now. 7 00:00:29,896 --> 00:00:31,586 I couldn't! 8 00:00:32,482 --> 00:00:34,413 I just couldn't. 9 00:00:34,413 --> 00:00:36,034 [crying] 10 00:01:13,482 --> 00:01:14,482 [Jacob] Oh, no, that's just... 11 00:01:14,482 --> 00:01:15,793 That's just all I wanted to talk about, 12 00:01:15,793 --> 00:01:18,482 but now I feel like a moron because I have my microphone on. 13 00:01:39,172 --> 00:01:40,551 [Jacob] Uh, [bleep]. 14 00:01:59,482 --> 00:02:01,379 [interviewer] Were you disciplined by Kristine and Mike? 15 00:02:02,482 --> 00:02:04,068 -Mmm. -[interviewer] Okay. Tell me about that. 16 00:02:04,068 --> 00:02:07,068 Um, they didn't, like, really, like, whup me or nothing like that. 17 00:02:07,068 --> 00:02:08,172 [interviewer] Okay. 18 00:02:08,172 --> 00:02:09,689 Did anyone ever put their hands on you? 19 00:02:11,172 --> 00:02:12,482 -Um... -[interviewer] Do you know what that means? 20 00:02:12,482 --> 00:02:13,793 Like physically, did anyone... 21 00:02:13,793 --> 00:02:15,275 -No. -[interviewer] ...physically harm you? 22 00:02:15,275 --> 00:02:16,689 [Natalia speaking] 23 00:02:21,586 --> 00:02:22,586 [Beth] Initially, Natalia, 24 00:02:22,586 --> 00:02:26,413 in her interview with the forensic interviewer, 25 00:02:26,413 --> 00:02:27,517 with the prosecutor's office, 26 00:02:27,517 --> 00:02:30,172 she's made a lot of conflicting statements 27 00:02:30,172 --> 00:02:32,689 and they are memorialized in police reports. 28 00:02:32,689 --> 00:02:34,517 Now, they whupped me, like, you know, how, like, 29 00:02:34,517 --> 00:02:37,344 sometimes, um, parents they whup you with a belt. 30 00:02:37,896 --> 00:02:39,103 They did whup me. 31 00:02:39,103 --> 00:02:41,793 She literally let the boys whup me. 32 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,517 -[interviewer] She let the three boys whup you? -Yes. 33 00:02:44,517 --> 00:02:46,655 -[interviewer] Okay. -Uh, Jacob, he just dropped me. 34 00:02:48,275 --> 00:02:49,793 -[Natalia mumbles] -[interviewer] When you say he just dropped you, 35 00:02:49,793 --> 00:02:51,689 -what does that mean? -Like, he literally... 36 00:02:51,689 --> 00:02:53,000 [interviewer] Just... Oh, he just dropped you? 37 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,620 -Yeah. -[interviewer] So did he, like, pick you up? 38 00:02:54,620 --> 00:02:55,896 -Mmm. -[interviewer] Okay. 39 00:02:55,896 --> 00:02:58,103 [interviewer] So when the three boys were whupping you, 40 00:02:58,103 --> 00:02:59,344 who was in the room? 41 00:03:00,586 --> 00:03:02,620 Kristine, she was sitting right on my left. 42 00:03:02,620 --> 00:03:05,896 First she whupped me. Then she had the boys, 43 00:03:05,896 --> 00:03:07,137 and then Michael whupped me. 44 00:03:08,793 --> 00:03:09,724 [interviewer speaking] 45 00:03:09,724 --> 00:03:11,241 -[Natalia speaking] -[interviewer] Okay. 46 00:03:40,896 --> 00:03:44,862 So, so this is actually, uh, this ties in to one of the things I, uh... 47 00:03:46,103 --> 00:03:48,379 didn't know whether or not to talk about here. 48 00:03:49,067 --> 00:03:50,482 But... 49 00:03:50,482 --> 00:03:52,758 Uh, I think I decided I will anyways. 50 00:03:55,482 --> 00:03:59,172 One of Natalia's problematic behaviors 51 00:03:59,172 --> 00:04:03,689 was that she would frequently soil, urinate, 52 00:04:03,689 --> 00:04:04,965 in places where she shouldn't. 53 00:04:05,724 --> 00:04:07,275 Um... 54 00:04:07,275 --> 00:04:09,482 Such as, for example, on blankets 55 00:04:09,482 --> 00:04:11,689 or on furniture, such as a couch, 56 00:04:12,206 --> 00:04:13,724 uh, or a bed. 57 00:04:13,724 --> 00:04:16,000 Because it was happening frequently, whatever, my, uh, mother 58 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,379 was trying to do to address the situation, 59 00:04:20,379 --> 00:04:21,757 uh, wasn't working. 60 00:04:23,103 --> 00:04:24,482 So, uh... 61 00:04:24,482 --> 00:04:26,310 One solution my mom came up with 62 00:04:26,310 --> 00:04:30,137 was for me to urinate in Natalia's bed. 63 00:04:32,896 --> 00:04:34,862 She had pink blankets. 64 00:04:36,724 --> 00:04:39,448 The vivid part is just, like, basically the action. 65 00:04:40,896 --> 00:04:44,137 I remember feeling anger, while I was doing it, like... 66 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,482 Like, uh, experiencing a thought, like, 67 00:04:46,482 --> 00:04:48,793 "Oh, this will, this will show her." 68 00:04:55,517 --> 00:04:58,586 Do... Do we need more on this topic, or are we good or... 69 00:05:01,689 --> 00:05:03,344 [sighs] 70 00:05:06,103 --> 00:05:08,241 She... She didn't give me instructions, man. 71 00:05:09,896 --> 00:05:11,689 Like, she didn't, like, 72 00:05:11,689 --> 00:05:13,620 "Oh, let's aim that way!" 73 00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:16,172 Like, I was never... [groans] 74 00:05:22,724 --> 00:05:24,551 [sighs] 75 00:05:28,379 --> 00:05:34,275 [Jacob] I had performed this, uh, action of urinating in Natalia's bed, 76 00:05:34,275 --> 00:05:38,965 and, uh, yeah, to this day I feel horrible that I actually did that. 77 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,241 Uh... It's one of those things that keeps me up at night. 78 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,034 Like, I , uh, kind of feel like a Nazi following orders, in a way. 79 00:05:58,896 --> 00:06:00,172 So there is definitely guilt. 80 00:06:04,482 --> 00:06:06,758 I don't think Natalia was treated fairly. 81 00:06:10,517 --> 00:06:15,103 In the unlikely scenario that Natalia, uh, listens to this, 82 00:06:15,103 --> 00:06:17,172 and doesn't just, like, turn it off, 83 00:06:17,172 --> 00:06:20,482 I hope she understands that I'm apologetic. 84 00:06:21,620 --> 00:06:24,793 Uh... I've had a lot of time to really... just... 85 00:06:24,793 --> 00:06:27,344 think about stuff and grow up. 86 00:06:30,103 --> 00:06:31,482 But... uh... 87 00:06:31,482 --> 00:06:33,551 I don't know if I wish to talk about this further. 88 00:06:36,275 --> 00:06:38,586 I mean, I've gotten a lot of stuff off my chest, that... 89 00:06:39,689 --> 00:06:41,793 I haven't really had a chance to speak about publicly. 90 00:06:44,586 --> 00:06:45,827 Yeah, I'm good. 91 00:06:54,517 --> 00:06:57,275 [gulps] Yeah, I don't think I have anything else to add. 92 00:07:04,724 --> 00:07:06,344 Jacob has relayed to me 93 00:07:07,517 --> 00:07:10,689 that Kristine made him specifically, 94 00:07:10,689 --> 00:07:12,448 we're not going to talk about anybody else... 95 00:07:14,896 --> 00:07:16,586 [sighs] While I was at work, 96 00:07:17,620 --> 00:07:20,965 Kristine made Jacob pee all over Natalia's things. 97 00:07:23,379 --> 00:07:24,655 Jacob's words to me, 98 00:07:26,172 --> 00:07:29,896 his mom explained it to him as, "It is therapeutic." 99 00:07:29,896 --> 00:07:33,793 It is something that a therapist told her to be done. 100 00:07:33,793 --> 00:07:36,137 Kristine told Jake that it's okay. 101 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,137 And my wife made my [bleep] 12-year-old son 102 00:07:42,482 --> 00:07:47,068 pee all over Natalia's things as a get-you-back. 103 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,241 Give me a second. 104 00:07:51,275 --> 00:07:53,172 [inhales deeply] 105 00:07:59,482 --> 00:08:01,068 Parents that are out there... 106 00:08:03,172 --> 00:08:04,896 [sniffs] 107 00:08:04,896 --> 00:08:07,034 ...you hear your kid tell you something like that... 108 00:08:09,103 --> 00:08:10,241 12 years later... 109 00:08:12,275 --> 00:08:14,551 I heard about this for the first time this week. 110 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,551 [exhales] 111 00:08:18,275 --> 00:08:20,482 You don't know how to react. 112 00:08:20,482 --> 00:08:23,000 I don't know... I don't know what Jacob needs from me in that moment. 113 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,793 I tried to put my arm on him as he was telling me 114 00:08:25,793 --> 00:08:27,379 and he smacked me away. 115 00:08:31,586 --> 00:08:33,895 Kristine controlled her children, 116 00:08:33,895 --> 00:08:36,275 and used them to control Natalia. 117 00:08:36,275 --> 00:08:39,724 It was all about control and manipulation. 118 00:08:39,724 --> 00:08:43,517 The Barnett's are supposed to, like all parents, protect their children. 119 00:08:43,517 --> 00:08:45,793 Kristine put Jacob on the frontlines. 120 00:08:45,793 --> 00:08:50,137 And it makes you wonder, what did she force Natalia to do? 121 00:08:51,620 --> 00:08:54,000 Natalia was abused by that woman! 122 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,586 I was abused by that woman! 123 00:08:55,586 --> 00:08:57,620 Jacob was abused by that woman! 124 00:08:57,620 --> 00:09:02,000 My other two sons are abused by that woman right now, today! 125 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,896 That woman is a controlling, lying, manipulating woman! 126 00:09:06,896 --> 00:09:08,862 We were all abused! 127 00:09:11,206 --> 00:09:12,448 [crying] 128 00:09:15,517 --> 00:09:17,172 [Kathy] Kristine's a monster. 129 00:09:18,517 --> 00:09:20,241 One time she yelled at me 130 00:09:21,482 --> 00:09:22,896 because she was standing on a step, 131 00:09:22,896 --> 00:09:24,620 on a chair, to change a lightbulb, 132 00:09:24,620 --> 00:09:26,344 and I want her to get off the chair, 133 00:09:27,517 --> 00:09:29,482 because she was pregnant and due the next day. 134 00:09:29,482 --> 00:09:31,000 And she's up on a... 135 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,689 Yelling because Michael hadn't changed a lightbulb. 136 00:09:33,689 --> 00:09:36,896 And I said, "Kristine, you need to come down." 137 00:09:36,896 --> 00:09:39,000 She told everybody I hit her. 138 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,896 And then she told me I had to leave their house, 139 00:09:41,896 --> 00:09:43,758 that I wasn't welcome there anymore. 140 00:09:45,482 --> 00:09:50,586 But the really hard part is what this has done to my son. 141 00:09:52,275 --> 00:09:54,275 He's been raked over the coals. 142 00:09:54,275 --> 00:09:56,344 He's been treated like crap. 143 00:09:57,620 --> 00:09:59,103 When... He's a... He's a good person, 144 00:09:59,103 --> 00:10:01,068 and I know every mother is going to say that. 145 00:10:02,413 --> 00:10:05,724 But I think that a piece of him has been carved out 146 00:10:05,724 --> 00:10:06,965 and thrown away. 147 00:10:17,310 --> 00:10:19,172 So... 148 00:10:19,172 --> 00:10:22,379 There's the easy definition of sexual abuse, 149 00:10:22,379 --> 00:10:26,310 which is obvious and visual. 150 00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:28,758 And you can see it and you can know it. 151 00:10:30,068 --> 00:10:32,172 And then there's what I went through. 152 00:10:33,482 --> 00:10:38,793 Did she sexually abuse me by physically violating my body? 153 00:10:39,724 --> 00:10:41,172 No, she did not. 154 00:10:42,103 --> 00:10:45,655 Did she sexually abuse me by using it as a tool? 155 00:10:46,724 --> 00:10:48,034 Yes, she did. 156 00:10:48,896 --> 00:10:50,482 [sighs] 157 00:10:52,068 --> 00:10:56,655 So, Kristine's sexual things to manipulate me was basically holding it from me. 158 00:10:57,620 --> 00:10:58,793 Keeping it from me. 159 00:10:58,793 --> 00:11:00,275 She knew I was attracted to her. 160 00:11:00,275 --> 00:11:01,689 There were many years 161 00:11:01,689 --> 00:11:04,275 that the number of times that she permitted it to happen 162 00:11:04,275 --> 00:11:06,068 was single digits. 163 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,275 She never came on to me. 164 00:11:10,275 --> 00:11:12,000 She never told me I was attractive. 165 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,275 She's the attractive one, I'm the ugly one. 166 00:11:15,275 --> 00:11:16,689 So, invariably, 167 00:11:18,103 --> 00:11:20,172 I get a wee bit addicted to pornography. 168 00:11:21,517 --> 00:11:23,965 Pornography is not going to tell me I'm ugly. 169 00:11:25,172 --> 00:11:26,241 It's not going to reject me. 170 00:11:28,103 --> 00:11:30,620 So... 171 00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:33,034 Kristine would use the pornography stuff against me. 172 00:11:33,724 --> 00:11:35,034 It made it worse. 173 00:11:38,379 --> 00:11:40,758 October, 2013, 174 00:11:41,896 --> 00:11:43,172 I leave Canada. 175 00:11:44,517 --> 00:11:46,793 We were not yet divorced at this time, 176 00:11:46,793 --> 00:11:50,620 and Kristine decides to start using sex as a weapon 177 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:52,068 to make me come back 178 00:11:52,689 --> 00:11:55,586 and get back in role and serve. 179 00:11:56,517 --> 00:11:59,344 So she would start sending naughty pictures to me. 180 00:12:00,517 --> 00:12:02,000 Teasing me, tempting me. 181 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,448 "If you just come back, you'll get this." 182 00:12:37,620 --> 00:12:41,172 Kristine was leveraging her body, her sex, 183 00:12:41,172 --> 00:12:42,793 to get what she wanted in the divorce. 184 00:12:43,517 --> 00:12:45,000 You can have this, 185 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,724 but give me what I want, which is custody of the boys. 186 00:12:47,724 --> 00:12:49,551 And he agrees! 187 00:12:50,586 --> 00:12:53,517 [Michael] Kristine is the walking epitome of evil. 188 00:12:53,517 --> 00:12:55,724 At first, for a very long time, 189 00:12:55,724 --> 00:12:58,620 I thought the brainwashing was only on me. 190 00:12:58,620 --> 00:13:02,103 I didn't see it happening to anybody else. 191 00:13:02,103 --> 00:13:06,896 Until I saw how my sons had been manipulated after divorce. 192 00:13:06,896 --> 00:13:11,000 She told my kids over and over and over and over and over, 193 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,137 "Your father is going to kill you, I'm going to protect you." 194 00:13:15,793 --> 00:13:18,068 And, for a young developing mind... 195 00:13:19,413 --> 00:13:21,620 How often do you need your mom 196 00:13:21,620 --> 00:13:25,862 to repeat to you, "Your dad is going to kill you," 197 00:13:27,620 --> 00:13:29,379 until you start buying it? 198 00:13:29,379 --> 00:13:30,620 My middle son and my youngest son, 199 00:13:30,620 --> 00:13:32,448 I've not seen them in over eight years. 200 00:13:34,517 --> 00:13:38,137 And they want nothing to do with seeing me. 201 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,689 Evil. She's earned it. 202 00:13:42,689 --> 00:13:45,586 She's earned every single letter of it. Evil. 203 00:13:57,275 --> 00:14:00,413 Given the bitter divorce between Michael and Kristine, 204 00:14:00,413 --> 00:14:02,379 they really hate each other. 205 00:14:02,379 --> 00:14:04,103 There's a war between them 206 00:14:04,103 --> 00:14:08,482 and the criminal cases against Michael and Kristine are coming up. 207 00:14:08,482 --> 00:14:12,482 The prosecution had to file charges separately against Michael and Kristine, 208 00:14:12,482 --> 00:14:16,068 I suspect because Michael told Detective Davenport 209 00:14:16,068 --> 00:14:19,482 about a lot of alleged criminal conduct by Kristine, 210 00:14:20,482 --> 00:14:22,689 and Michael's trial is first. 211 00:14:22,689 --> 00:14:25,896 So was he trying to put all the blame on Kristine, 212 00:14:25,896 --> 00:14:27,758 to escape any accountability? 213 00:14:28,482 --> 00:14:31,068 Or is he motivated by revenge? 214 00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:35,793 [Michael] For the first year, after the divorce, 215 00:14:35,793 --> 00:14:37,482 we were using the one communal phone. 216 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,103 The one communal phone, at that point in time, 217 00:14:42,103 --> 00:14:44,689 had been set up to automatically back up 218 00:14:44,689 --> 00:14:46,517 pictures and videos. 219 00:14:46,517 --> 00:14:50,482 So, every time she takes a picture of my sons. 220 00:14:50,482 --> 00:14:55,620 It's automatically backing up to my Dropbox account. 221 00:14:55,620 --> 00:14:58,379 So I'm opening Dropbox every day, 222 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,379 hoping to see my kids. 223 00:15:01,379 --> 00:15:03,689 Hoping to see smiles. Hoping to see a video. 224 00:15:03,689 --> 00:15:05,655 Hoping to hear their voices. 225 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:12,034 And, nearly immediately after, I'm seeing pictures. 226 00:15:13,275 --> 00:15:16,241 Pictures of her in various states of undress, 227 00:15:17,172 --> 00:15:20,965 that I know are being sent to other people. 228 00:15:23,896 --> 00:15:25,620 [Kristine] You saw those pictures, they were tame. 229 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:28,482 I could have been wearing a fricking pair of shorts in those pictures. 230 00:15:29,689 --> 00:15:31,620 And you've not... And... 231 00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:33,482 You don't know which ones I sent to him, 232 00:15:33,482 --> 00:15:36,068 because there were some really, really tame ones, 233 00:15:36,068 --> 00:15:38,689 and then there were the ones that I sent to you. 234 00:15:38,689 --> 00:15:40,689 -[Michael] You didn't... -[Kristine] And why did I send them to you? 235 00:15:40,689 --> 00:15:42,068 -[sighs] -[Kristine] Why did I send them to you? 236 00:15:42,068 --> 00:15:43,586 -Tell me the truth. You know. -[Michael] You didn't... 237 00:15:43,586 --> 00:15:44,689 [Kristine] Tell me why I sent them to you. 238 00:15:44,689 --> 00:15:45,896 [Michael] ...send me anything, Kris. 239 00:15:45,896 --> 00:15:47,379 -You didn't email me any of them. -[Kristine] What? 240 00:15:47,379 --> 00:15:48,793 [Michael] You didn't text me any of them, you didn't send any to me. 241 00:15:48,793 --> 00:15:52,379 [Kristine] I know that you stalk the frick out of me. 242 00:15:52,379 --> 00:15:53,793 [Michael] It was in... 243 00:15:53,793 --> 00:15:55,793 -[Kristine] I know it. -[Michael] ...Kris, it's in my Dropbox. 244 00:15:55,793 --> 00:15:58,379 [Kristine] I know that you go on Spotify on my computer. 245 00:15:58,379 --> 00:15:59,793 -I know that you search my internet. -[Michael] Spotify... 246 00:15:59,793 --> 00:16:04,000 Wait, wait, wait, stop. Do you know what Spotify is? 247 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,517 [Kristine] I do not, no. It's a... I don't know what it is but... 248 00:16:06,517 --> 00:16:11,448 [Michael] Spotify... Spotify is like Pandora, it's a music player! 249 00:16:12,896 --> 00:16:16,517 Kristine was not tech-savvy. 250 00:16:16,517 --> 00:16:18,310 She didn't understand computers. 251 00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:20,793 She didn't understand technology. 252 00:16:20,793 --> 00:16:24,620 She would take pictures of herself in lingerie 253 00:16:24,620 --> 00:16:27,068 and save them there. 254 00:16:27,068 --> 00:16:32,586 And this whole time Michael is living with me and my family and... 255 00:16:33,793 --> 00:16:37,586 these are just appearing on his computer. 256 00:16:37,586 --> 00:16:42,379 And... to watch him go through the devastation is... 257 00:16:42,379 --> 00:16:46,379 It was almost like his life was being ripped apart from the inside, 258 00:16:46,379 --> 00:16:49,655 and not only his life but his heart. 259 00:16:52,068 --> 00:16:57,000 There has been a lot of pain in their 15-year broken marriage. 260 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,103 She has twisted, convoluted, 261 00:17:00,103 --> 00:17:04,275 lied publicly, privately, repeatedly, 262 00:17:04,275 --> 00:17:09,172 over and over and over again so she can maintain power, money, control 263 00:17:09,172 --> 00:17:11,689 over everything and everyone. 264 00:17:12,619 --> 00:17:16,172 Natalia was manipulated, brainwashed, engineered 265 00:17:16,172 --> 00:17:19,137 into looking as crazy as possible. 266 00:17:20,205 --> 00:17:23,172 Summer 2012, Marion County Court has ruled 267 00:17:23,172 --> 00:17:26,000 that Natalia is, and has been, an adult. 268 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,862 A month or two before that moment... 269 00:17:28,896 --> 00:17:32,068 Kristine has taught and rehearsed 270 00:17:32,068 --> 00:17:35,000 a greeting with Natalia. 271 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,000 "Hi..." I... I even have to do it in the voice and everything. 272 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,379 So, let me get me a little sip of water. 273 00:17:42,896 --> 00:17:44,310 Because I can see her do it. 274 00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:47,000 Because I can see her, with her hands, her fingers don't bend 275 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,965 due to one of her dysplasias, and it's just the way it is. 276 00:17:50,896 --> 00:17:54,206 "Hi, my name's Natalia. 277 00:17:54,206 --> 00:17:58,310 I might look young but I'm actually 23 years old, 278 00:17:58,310 --> 00:18:01,689 and I'm dangerous. I have tried to kill people before." 279 00:18:11,068 --> 00:18:12,586 [sighs] 280 00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:15,068 This is going to sound terrible. 281 00:18:16,275 --> 00:18:18,172 I don't think I ever witnessed her 282 00:18:18,172 --> 00:18:21,034 say that greeting to a stranger, publicly aloud. 283 00:18:21,896 --> 00:18:24,172 I don't think I was ever present 284 00:18:24,172 --> 00:18:26,896 when Natalia, on her own, met a stranger. 285 00:18:26,896 --> 00:18:28,896 It was something Kristine had taught Natalia 286 00:18:28,896 --> 00:18:30,310 for when we weren't around 287 00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:34,172 and Kristine couldn't warn the people herself 288 00:18:34,172 --> 00:18:35,758 that she's dangerous. 289 00:18:37,586 --> 00:18:39,793 Should I have been more of a man? 290 00:18:39,793 --> 00:18:43,620 Should I have stood up and taken control 291 00:18:43,620 --> 00:18:46,172 and put my foot down? Yeah. 292 00:18:47,068 --> 00:18:48,379 Take that back. 293 00:18:48,379 --> 00:18:51,413 That's not being a man. Should I have been a different person? 294 00:18:51,413 --> 00:18:54,896 Yes. Absolutely. 295 00:18:54,896 --> 00:18:59,689 Was I at all, mentally or emotionally, capable of doing such a thing? 296 00:19:00,310 --> 00:19:01,275 No. 297 00:19:08,206 --> 00:19:10,275 She's abusive! 298 00:19:12,793 --> 00:19:14,068 [sighs] 299 00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:28,034 [sniffs] I couldn't [bleep] stand up to that woman! 300 00:19:28,689 --> 00:19:30,379 I could today! 301 00:19:30,379 --> 00:19:32,172 [heavy breathing] 302 00:19:32,172 --> 00:19:36,068 I could now, with distance and space and clarity. I could now! 303 00:19:36,793 --> 00:19:38,068 I couldn't. 304 00:19:39,310 --> 00:19:41,965 [sobs] I just couldn't. 305 00:19:42,517 --> 00:19:44,275 [crying] 306 00:19:45,586 --> 00:19:50,000 [Melanie] When she told me that she had tried to kill her mom, 307 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,413 it's like, "Why was that?" 308 00:19:51,413 --> 00:19:55,689 And I felt like either she was coached to say that, 309 00:19:55,689 --> 00:19:58,172 and those things didn't happen 310 00:19:58,172 --> 00:20:02,068 and somebody was just saying, like, "This is what... This is what happened." 311 00:20:02,068 --> 00:20:03,379 And kind of made her believe that. 312 00:20:03,379 --> 00:20:06,413 Or she was just so far disconnected emotionally 313 00:20:06,413 --> 00:20:08,172 from what was happening. 314 00:20:09,275 --> 00:20:12,034 [Michael] Abuse, in general, is all about power. 315 00:20:13,517 --> 00:20:16,000 Kristine was the one in power 316 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,137 at all times. 317 00:20:19,379 --> 00:20:22,482 Kristine's the one in power right now, today. 318 00:20:23,379 --> 00:20:24,793 If it's true 319 00:20:24,793 --> 00:20:27,275 that Kristine was manipulating Natalia 320 00:20:27,275 --> 00:20:29,068 to say things that were false 321 00:20:29,068 --> 00:20:30,793 then it's really disturbing. 322 00:20:30,793 --> 00:20:33,068 And it begs the question of whether or not 323 00:20:33,068 --> 00:20:36,413 this is evidence of Stockholm syndrome, 324 00:20:36,413 --> 00:20:39,000 or is it evidence that Natalia was a child 325 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000 following the orders of her mother? 326 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,310 Now, that may explain 327 00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:44,379 some of Natalia's inconsistencies. 328 00:20:44,379 --> 00:20:49,206 For example, Natalia admitted trying to poison Kristine. 329 00:20:49,206 --> 00:20:52,310 She just said, "I tried to poison them, 330 00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:54,620 so I had to live in the garage for a while." 331 00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:56,172 And then she denied it. 332 00:20:56,172 --> 00:21:00,689 Did you try to put a foreign substance into her coffee? 333 00:21:00,689 --> 00:21:04,482 -No. That's what she told me to tell them. -[Mark] Okay. 334 00:21:05,517 --> 00:21:08,172 It sure sounds like these statements 335 00:21:08,172 --> 00:21:10,586 were things that Natalia didn't necessarily 336 00:21:10,586 --> 00:21:11,689 want to say. 337 00:21:11,689 --> 00:21:13,068 That sounds like compulsion, 338 00:21:13,068 --> 00:21:15,758 like she was being forced to say certain things. 339 00:21:22,344 --> 00:21:23,586 [Beth] Everything in this case 340 00:21:23,586 --> 00:21:25,655 boils down to Natalia's age. 341 00:21:26,896 --> 00:21:29,206 Is she a child or is she an adult? 342 00:21:30,344 --> 00:21:34,379 Could she really have been born in 2003? 343 00:21:34,379 --> 00:21:38,586 How old is Natalia Barnett, really? 344 00:21:38,586 --> 00:21:40,482 It's clear that the prosecution believes 345 00:21:40,482 --> 00:21:42,965 Natalia was a child when she was left alone 346 00:21:42,965 --> 00:21:46,413 to fend for herself in this apartment in Lafayette, Indiana. 347 00:21:47,379 --> 00:21:49,137 Getting her re-aged to an adult 348 00:21:49,137 --> 00:21:51,896 could have been a way for Michael and Kristine to protect themselves 349 00:21:51,896 --> 00:21:54,896 from child neglect charges. 350 00:21:54,896 --> 00:21:58,000 There are two sets, or theories, of charges. 351 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,379 One is based on Natalia being a child. 352 00:22:00,379 --> 00:22:06,034 The other set of charges is based on Natalia being a dependent with a disability. 353 00:22:07,103 --> 00:22:11,034 This is where Natalia's age becomes extremely important. 354 00:22:11,034 --> 00:22:14,793 If the prosecution can prove that Natalia was a child, 355 00:22:14,793 --> 00:22:16,586 despite her re-aging, 356 00:22:16,586 --> 00:22:19,448 it should be an open and shut case with any jury. 357 00:23:20,034 --> 00:23:22,034 [Bob] In regards to Natalia being re-aged, 358 00:23:22,034 --> 00:23:24,034 there could be a motive factor here. 359 00:23:24,034 --> 00:23:25,172 And the motive factor could be 360 00:23:25,172 --> 00:23:28,275 that whatever abuse might have taken place, 361 00:23:28,275 --> 00:23:30,482 the age makes a big difference 362 00:23:30,482 --> 00:23:32,206 in how that's looked at, legally. 363 00:23:33,896 --> 00:23:35,862 [Davenport] Hey, doctor, my name is Brandon Davenport, 364 00:23:35,862 --> 00:23:37,793 I'm a detective with the Indiana state police, 365 00:23:37,793 --> 00:23:39,344 and I was trying to get hold of you 366 00:23:39,344 --> 00:23:41,655 about Natalia Barnett. 367 00:25:11,241 --> 00:25:12,448 [Davenport] Yes. 368 00:25:33,275 --> 00:25:36,137 So what's curious is that this emergency petition 369 00:25:36,137 --> 00:25:40,103 to re-age Natalia is based, in large part, 370 00:25:40,103 --> 00:25:42,482 on Dr. McLaren, the family doctor, 371 00:25:42,482 --> 00:25:43,896 a general practitioner. 372 00:25:43,896 --> 00:25:48,896 Dr. McLaren's opinion is apparently what ruled the day 373 00:25:48,896 --> 00:25:50,034 for the judge, and it was enough. 374 00:25:50,034 --> 00:25:53,655 This becomes a central issue for the prosecution. 375 00:25:56,034 --> 00:25:59,344 Would you agree that the fact that you personally believe 376 00:25:59,344 --> 00:26:03,862 that Natalia is a child, that that biases your investigation? 377 00:26:05,689 --> 00:26:07,689 I don't think my investigation is biased. 378 00:26:07,689 --> 00:26:09,275 [Mark] Okay, so do you believe that Natalia, 379 00:26:09,275 --> 00:26:13,103 back in 2013, do you believe she is child? 380 00:26:13,103 --> 00:26:15,689 The facts suggest that she was a child at that time. 381 00:26:15,689 --> 00:26:17,689 Actually the facts are there's a court order 382 00:26:17,689 --> 00:26:19,034 saying that she's... 383 00:26:19,034 --> 00:26:20,482 [Jackie] Uh, Mr. Nicholson, we're not going to fight over this. 384 00:26:20,482 --> 00:26:21,482 Okay. 385 00:26:21,482 --> 00:26:22,379 [Jackie] He has said that it's his opinion 386 00:26:22,379 --> 00:26:23,862 the facts show she is a child. 387 00:26:23,862 --> 00:26:26,275 Is that would you said, that it's your opinion 388 00:26:26,275 --> 00:26:28,586 that the facts show she's a child? 389 00:26:28,586 --> 00:26:31,448 If you're asking me? Sir, yes, sir. 390 00:26:33,896 --> 00:26:36,896 [Beth] Natalia's age, her birth year, 391 00:26:36,896 --> 00:26:39,137 was so important that prosecutors 392 00:26:39,137 --> 00:26:42,862 and Detective Davenport went to Ukraine. 393 00:26:50,034 --> 00:26:52,896 They went there to track down this woman, 394 00:26:52,896 --> 00:26:57,482 Anna Gava, who is, allegedly, Natalia's biological mother, 395 00:26:57,482 --> 00:26:59,758 and get a DNA sample from her. 396 00:27:03,965 --> 00:27:05,103 [translator speaking] 397 00:27:05,103 --> 00:27:08,586 [Davenport] So, we came a long way to meet you. 398 00:27:08,586 --> 00:27:11,241 [translator speaking] 399 00:27:11,241 --> 00:27:13,482 [Davenport] Our goal, and I think your goal, 400 00:27:13,482 --> 00:27:18,379 is we want the best for a little girl. 401 00:27:18,379 --> 00:27:20,103 So, we're going to take this test, 402 00:27:20,793 --> 00:27:23,758 to swab the lower part of the cheek. 403 00:27:31,896 --> 00:27:34,034 -[woman] Everything is done? -[Davenport] Yes, we are. 404 00:27:34,034 --> 00:27:35,965 [Beth] The DNA test results came back, 405 00:27:37,586 --> 00:27:38,862 it is a match. 406 00:27:38,862 --> 00:27:41,965 She is indeed Natalia's biological mother. 407 00:27:43,379 --> 00:27:46,275 This is a huge deal, 408 00:27:46,275 --> 00:27:49,862 and may put this whole age issue to rest. 409 00:27:50,896 --> 00:27:53,103 This changes everything. 410 00:28:00,103 --> 00:28:01,689 [Mark] Can you go ahead and state your name 411 00:28:01,689 --> 00:28:03,758 and spell it for the record, please? 412 00:28:03,758 --> 00:28:04,965 Natalia Barnett. 413 00:28:04,965 --> 00:28:07,068 [Mark] And how old are you? 414 00:28:09,379 --> 00:28:12,000 Biologically, 32... 33, sorry. 415 00:28:12,896 --> 00:28:13,965 Uh... 416 00:28:16,862 --> 00:28:18,241 I'm 33... 417 00:28:19,137 --> 00:28:20,482 legally. 418 00:28:20,482 --> 00:28:22,172 Biologically 19. 419 00:28:35,034 --> 00:28:38,758 [reporter] Ukraine's president says 30% of the country's power stations 420 00:28:38,758 --> 00:28:41,034 have been destroyed in just over a week, 421 00:28:41,034 --> 00:28:44,586 prompting residents to restrict their use of electricity and water. 422 00:28:44,586 --> 00:28:47,137 [woman] It's part of Moscow's campaign to drive the nation 423 00:28:47,137 --> 00:28:48,862 into the cold and dark. 424 00:28:58,689 --> 00:29:00,448 [in Ukrainian] 425 00:29:47,482 --> 00:29:48,862 [coughs] 426 00:30:11,793 --> 00:30:12,931 [Anna clears throat] 427 00:31:10,034 --> 00:31:11,000 [Anna sniffling] 428 00:31:13,275 --> 00:31:15,000 [quavering] 429 00:32:03,896 --> 00:32:05,827 [siren blaring distantly] 430 00:32:14,275 --> 00:32:16,206 [audio distorted, cuts out] 431 00:32:26,896 --> 00:32:31,758 Anna Gava was born in 1979, which means she would have been 10 years old 432 00:32:31,758 --> 00:32:37,379 if Natalia was born in 1989, as the courts ruled when they re-aged her. 433 00:32:37,379 --> 00:32:42,379 So there aren't a lot of good reasons, besides seeing pubic hair on her, 434 00:32:42,379 --> 00:32:46,241 to believe she was born any time before 2003. 435 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,482 Also, we know that Michael's attorneys have the DNA results of Anna Gava, 436 00:32:53,482 --> 00:32:56,965 because they got it in discovery in preparation for the trial. 437 00:32:56,965 --> 00:33:00,689 So they know Anna Gava is a match for Natalia. 438 00:33:00,689 --> 00:33:04,655 So... so, regarding, uh, the... the woman in the Ukraine... 439 00:33:04,655 --> 00:33:07,862 that supposedly is... is her mom, or any of that stuff, 440 00:33:07,862 --> 00:33:10,275 I don't know the truth of anything. 441 00:33:10,275 --> 00:33:13,482 And that is... that is the God's honest truth. I don't know. 442 00:33:13,482 --> 00:33:16,482 And this is where my... if my attorney were hanging out with me, 443 00:33:16,482 --> 00:33:18,586 he would jump in and say some attorney things. 444 00:33:18,586 --> 00:33:23,034 And he would say something about due process, and inspecting the evidence, 445 00:33:23,034 --> 00:33:26,896 and researching the validity of such things. 446 00:33:26,896 --> 00:33:29,896 I've never met her, I've never been to the Ukraine, 447 00:33:29,896 --> 00:33:32,689 I didn't conduct any test, I've done none of these things. 448 00:33:32,689 --> 00:33:36,482 Is it somebody that I was present for during any kind of screening? No. 449 00:33:36,482 --> 00:33:39,862 Has... has the... has this information 450 00:33:39,862 --> 00:33:41,965 been validated in a court of law, 451 00:33:41,965 --> 00:33:46,000 and been made official that yes, this is all legit? No. 452 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,172 I have this test submitted by a prosecutor 453 00:33:50,172 --> 00:33:55,068 who has a... a... a... a reason to want to win their case. 454 00:33:57,275 --> 00:33:59,655 [newscaster] The Tippecanoe County Superior Court judge 455 00:33:59,655 --> 00:34:01,758 sided with the defense's argument 456 00:34:01,758 --> 00:34:05,586 that Natalia's age cannot be part of this case. 457 00:34:05,586 --> 00:34:08,757 A judge ruled years ago that Natalia was an adult 458 00:34:08,757 --> 00:34:10,862 when this series of events took place. 459 00:34:10,862 --> 00:34:14,688 For that reason, no one can portray her as a child. 460 00:34:14,688 --> 00:34:17,241 A big setback for the prosecution. 461 00:34:25,655 --> 00:34:27,379 [Beth] Despite this DNA evidence 462 00:34:27,379 --> 00:34:31,447 that Anna Gava is Natalia's biological mother, 463 00:34:31,447 --> 00:34:35,655 the court ruling that Natalia's age was not gonna be relitigated 464 00:34:35,655 --> 00:34:40,344 at this criminal trial is a huge blow to the prosecution. 465 00:34:40,344 --> 00:34:44,862 All of the witnesses were prepared to testify about Natalia's age, 466 00:34:44,862 --> 00:34:48,241 and now they're being muzzled, and silenced. 467 00:34:50,655 --> 00:34:55,896 I am attorney Mark Nicholson for Kristine Barnett. 468 00:34:55,896 --> 00:34:58,586 Jackie Starbuck, deputy prosecuting attorney. 469 00:34:58,586 --> 00:35:01,482 Attorney Terrance Kinnard, representing, um, Michael Barnett. 470 00:35:01,482 --> 00:35:06,241 Now, you have evaluated Natalia. Is that correct? 471 00:35:07,551 --> 00:35:11,275 -Um, I did... I treated her, back... -Treat... treat... 472 00:35:11,275 --> 00:35:13,586 ...2010, I believe. 473 00:35:13,586 --> 00:35:18,000 You know that Natalia is not a child? 474 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,172 When I saw her, her growth plates were open, 475 00:35:20,172 --> 00:35:22,758 so she was not an adult when I saw her. 476 00:35:22,758 --> 00:35:25,793 She has been legally declared an adult. 477 00:35:25,793 --> 00:35:28,793 Not at the time of treatment, just so we're clear. 478 00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:32,344 By time of treatment, she was not legally an adult. 479 00:35:32,344 --> 00:35:35,551 She came in, and I was told that she was six. 480 00:35:35,551 --> 00:35:39,000 It's not me that's saying it, Doctor, with all due respect. It's the court-- 481 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,551 -[Joseph's audio garbled] -[Mark] Well, sir, let me finish, please. 482 00:35:41,551 --> 00:35:46,655 Let me finish. It is the court order that gave her a date of birth. 483 00:35:46,655 --> 00:35:50,482 And the point I'm trying to get across to you is, 484 00:35:50,482 --> 00:35:55,758 that when you testify, and the prosecution tell you 485 00:35:55,758 --> 00:35:59,379 there's not gonna be any testimony of you 486 00:35:59,379 --> 00:36:03,482 trying to tell the jury that, "Well, when I saw her, she was a child." 487 00:36:03,482 --> 00:36:05,068 What I am telling you is... 488 00:36:05,896 --> 00:36:07,620 X-rays don't lie. 489 00:36:08,655 --> 00:36:10,862 Your growth plates are not open, sir. 490 00:36:12,103 --> 00:36:13,655 -Once you-- -But, Doctor, you understand 491 00:36:13,655 --> 00:36:15,586 that we can't talk about that at trial, right? 492 00:36:15,586 --> 00:36:17,965 So I'm to refer to her as an adult? 493 00:36:18,379 --> 00:36:20,896 Uh... a... a person. 494 00:36:20,896 --> 00:36:23,344 So we're not really interested in the truth, what we're interested in, 495 00:36:23,344 --> 00:36:25,862 is what was legally put out there? 496 00:36:25,862 --> 00:36:27,000 I don't appreciate you saying 497 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,827 that we're not interested in the truth. 498 00:36:29,655 --> 00:36:32,000 -Because I am interested in truth. -Okay. 499 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,379 -There's been a lot of lies that have been going on. -Hold up, hold up, hold up. 500 00:36:34,379 --> 00:36:36,482 -We are not going to argue about-- -Stop, stop. 501 00:36:36,482 --> 00:36:38,862 -I'm not arguing. What I'm telling him is... -[Jackie] Okay. But... 502 00:36:38,862 --> 00:36:42,000 -but, basically... -...he will... he will not... he will not disrespect me, 503 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,862 and say that I am not interested in the truth. 504 00:36:44,862 --> 00:36:46,000 -Okay. Look... -You know what I'm saying? 505 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,344 Because, you know, because he... 506 00:36:47,344 --> 00:36:49,241 -he just said that, well, "We're not... -[Joseph's audio muted] 507 00:36:49,241 --> 00:36:51,758 -...interested in the truth." -Um, Mr. Michaelson, can we... can we get back to the point? 508 00:36:51,758 --> 00:36:56,344 Her birth date, Doctor, is September 4th, 1989. 509 00:37:09,896 --> 00:37:14,000 [Michael] We are at the attorney's office, and it is game time. 510 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,862 We're here for court prep. 511 00:37:15,862 --> 00:37:18,344 Uh, we have my three attorneys waiting on the fourth floor, 512 00:37:18,344 --> 00:37:21,931 uh, for us to go in and figure out exactly what the game plan is. 513 00:37:24,448 --> 00:37:27,172 I wish I could tell you what comes after trial. 514 00:37:29,379 --> 00:37:33,862 I have zero idea or control of what my life will hold, 515 00:37:33,862 --> 00:37:36,517 what my future will be like, none. 516 00:37:38,103 --> 00:37:40,586 But when we go upstairs, you're gonna see, 517 00:37:40,586 --> 00:37:42,758 uh, I've got three full-time attorneys 518 00:37:42,758 --> 00:37:45,551 working on this case, and only this case, 24-7. 519 00:37:47,172 --> 00:37:50,000 We've got Riley. Riley is a new attorney on the case. 520 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,896 Kind of the... the new kid. He's sharp, he's skilled. 521 00:37:52,896 --> 00:37:56,137 He's bringing in something a little extra that we hadn't seen before. 522 00:37:57,655 --> 00:37:59,379 Then I've got Vincent Scott. 523 00:37:59,379 --> 00:38:02,000 Vince is calm, to help the jury understand, 524 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,379 and see, plainly and clearly, the lies. 525 00:38:06,379 --> 00:38:07,862 Then I get to the leader. 526 00:38:07,862 --> 00:38:09,344 Got my attorney and savior, 527 00:38:09,344 --> 00:38:11,586 -Terrance Kinnard, on my side. -Let's do this. 528 00:38:11,586 --> 00:38:12,793 Terrance and I have really gotten close. 529 00:38:12,793 --> 00:38:14,482 He truly feels like family. 530 00:38:14,482 --> 00:38:15,862 He feels like a friend. 531 00:38:15,862 --> 00:38:17,689 I'm 100% behind you. 532 00:38:17,689 --> 00:38:19,862 I absolutely believe you're innocent. 533 00:38:19,862 --> 00:38:22,103 I don't have to tell you this, 'cause you already know, the stakes are high. 534 00:38:22,103 --> 00:38:24,103 You can't predict what 12 people in a room will do. 535 00:38:24,103 --> 00:38:25,793 And neither can I. 536 00:38:25,793 --> 00:38:29,620 These men have dedicated their lives to saving me. 537 00:38:32,482 --> 00:38:34,827 I'm up against the impossible, but I can do it. 538 00:38:37,448 --> 00:38:41,103 [Terrance] The state of Indiana versus Michael Barnett. 539 00:38:41,103 --> 00:38:43,482 -Mmm-hmm. -[Terrance] This trial is about you. 540 00:38:43,482 --> 00:38:45,655 We're not defending Kristine Barnett. 541 00:38:45,655 --> 00:38:51,344 So, no part of our case will we attempt to, uh, pave the road for her. 542 00:38:51,344 --> 00:38:53,965 We will not use the name "Kristine" in trial. 543 00:38:55,172 --> 00:38:57,000 Well, we know their overall message 544 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,758 -is gonna be abandonment, right? -[Michael] Mmm-hmm. 545 00:38:58,758 --> 00:39:01,103 [Terrance] The word "adoption" can't be used. 546 00:39:01,103 --> 00:39:03,000 In this case, you know, it's kinda crazy, 547 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,172 'cause everybody's expecting this to be about this crazy adoption. 548 00:39:06,172 --> 00:39:07,862 But it's not. 549 00:39:07,862 --> 00:39:12,241 -It's not. -This case is about an allegation of neglect. 550 00:39:12,241 --> 00:39:17,344 If the jury looks at Natalia, and her physical stature, they'll know she's an adult. 551 00:39:17,344 --> 00:39:18,655 But even as an adult, they say, 552 00:39:18,655 --> 00:39:20,379 "But still, how can parents leave someone 553 00:39:20,379 --> 00:39:22,896 so tiny by themselves?" 554 00:39:22,896 --> 00:39:25,689 -Well, that's-- -And if a jury believes that one thing, 555 00:39:25,689 --> 00:39:29,896 they can find that you've abandoned a person that... that's in need. 556 00:39:29,896 --> 00:39:32,482 They can convict. 557 00:39:32,482 --> 00:39:36,275 -[Riley] In that order? -Here's the deal. We can't use the word "adult." 558 00:39:36,275 --> 00:39:39,000 -I don't know the [bleep] why. -You can't use the word "child." 559 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,068 [Terrance] Can't... Well, we don't wanna use the word "child." 560 00:39:41,068 --> 00:39:44,655 -What is Natalia to you? -She is my daughter. 561 00:39:44,655 --> 00:39:46,448 She's legally my adopted daughter. 562 00:39:46,448 --> 00:39:49,000 -Your 21-year-old daughter? -Yeah, look it. These... 563 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,551 -Thank you. -...[bleep] graduates, man. 564 00:39:50,551 --> 00:39:51,758 -They impress me. -That's what it is. 565 00:39:51,758 --> 00:39:52,862 -[Terrance] Yes. -[chuckling] Yes. 566 00:39:52,862 --> 00:39:54,655 We're gonna say, "Did you abandon 567 00:39:54,655 --> 00:39:56,655 -your 22-year-old daughter," right? -[Michael] No. 568 00:39:56,655 --> 00:40:00,551 That's... that's gonna be the phrase to counter that she's not a child, 569 00:40:00,551 --> 00:40:02,689 "She's an adult," without using the phrase. 570 00:40:02,689 --> 00:40:05,344 In terms of like, an ideal jury, I know it's hard to predict... 571 00:40:05,344 --> 00:40:07,000 -[whistles] -...but what are we looking for? 572 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,482 People that like me. 573 00:40:09,482 --> 00:40:11,689 -Um, and that's hard. -[Vincent chuckles] 574 00:40:11,689 --> 00:40:13,275 Uh, ideal jury? 575 00:40:13,275 --> 00:40:14,931 I would want... 576 00:40:16,275 --> 00:40:19,655 educated, middle-class jurors. 577 00:40:19,655 --> 00:40:23,103 So you're gonna have a very conservative mix. 578 00:40:23,103 --> 00:40:26,551 -You want to be relatable to them. -[Michael] Yes, sir. 579 00:40:26,551 --> 00:40:30,655 Facial expression and demeanor? Smile. 580 00:40:32,758 --> 00:40:34,758 [Terrance] A little less. There you go. 581 00:40:34,758 --> 00:40:37,551 Don't overexpress yourself, because it... 582 00:40:37,551 --> 00:40:40,172 it can come off as weird, or creepy, or detached. 583 00:40:40,172 --> 00:40:42,172 So, as I'm sitting there, facial expression-wise. 584 00:40:42,172 --> 00:40:44,655 So obviously not a hap... super happy smile. I'm not... 585 00:40:44,655 --> 00:40:46,551 -[Terrance] No. No. -Not happy to be in court. 586 00:40:46,551 --> 00:40:49,551 Um, it's also not... [sighs] 587 00:40:49,551 --> 00:40:51,344 -I'm not mad, I'm not upset. -[Terrance] No. 588 00:40:51,344 --> 00:40:53,586 It's just the truth of the matter. 589 00:40:53,586 --> 00:40:55,000 I'm an innocent person 590 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,000 -being reviewed and judged, so... -[Vincent] Right. 591 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,172 [Terrance] Yeah. And, the elephant in the room, you know, 592 00:41:00,172 --> 00:41:02,586 -whether or not Michael's taking the stand. -[Vincent] Mmm-hmm. 593 00:41:02,586 --> 00:41:06,241 [Terrance] All that's gonna depend on what we need to get out that's not there. 594 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,068 This is the [bleep] Super Bowl. 595 00:41:11,655 --> 00:41:14,103 Our goal is, we're gonna win. 596 00:41:14,103 --> 00:41:16,241 -[Michael] You're gonna go whoop somebody's ass. -[Terrance chuckles] 597 00:41:16,241 --> 00:41:18,482 [Michael] I know you got this. 598 00:41:18,482 --> 00:41:21,103 -I love you, man. -[Michael and Terrance laugh] 599 00:41:21,103 --> 00:41:22,275 -[Terrance] All right. -All right. 600 00:41:22,275 --> 00:41:23,275 -See you tomorrow. -Take it easy, Mike. 601 00:41:23,275 --> 00:41:24,379 -Bye, fellas. -All righty. 602 00:41:24,379 --> 00:41:25,827 -See you tomorrow. -[Michael] Bye, guys. 603 00:41:33,275 --> 00:41:36,172 [Terrance] The one thing I'd be worried about with Mike? 604 00:41:36,172 --> 00:41:37,862 He wears his heart on his sleeve. 605 00:41:39,172 --> 00:41:42,551 As lawyers, it's the scariest time, because it's like, 606 00:41:42,551 --> 00:41:44,931 what if I [bleep], what if I [bleep] up? 607 00:41:46,379 --> 00:41:49,379 If he gets convicted of this crime, 608 00:41:49,379 --> 00:41:52,241 I have every expectation he would have to do prison time. 609 00:41:55,482 --> 00:41:58,482 And in Indiana, with a Level 3 felony, 610 00:41:58,482 --> 00:42:00,551 he's looking at 16 years in prison. 611 00:42:01,793 --> 00:42:06,103 So, as much as I gotta be strong, and give the rah-rah speech to him, 612 00:42:06,103 --> 00:42:09,000 internally, I'm [bleep] terrified. 613 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,379 Because I know he's not the kind of guy 614 00:42:10,379 --> 00:42:13,172 that could do well if he had to go to prison. 615 00:42:15,068 --> 00:42:16,862 The battle begins.