1 00:00:25,901 --> 00:00:29,155 -[ominous music plays] -[film projector clicking] 2 00:00:29,238 --> 00:00:31,282 [woman screaming] 3 00:00:33,284 --> 00:00:34,535 [music continues] 4 00:00:36,203 --> 00:00:38,664 [Morrison] I was doing emergency coverage 5 00:00:38,748 --> 00:00:41,333 at Mendota Mental Health Institute. 6 00:00:41,417 --> 00:00:43,335 [screaming continues] 7 00:00:43,419 --> 00:00:47,089 [music builds, continues] 8 00:00:47,173 --> 00:00:48,716 I was on the ward, 9 00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:51,677 and one of the nurses said, "Have you met Ed Gein?" 10 00:00:51,761 --> 00:00:53,596 I said, "No, I haven't." 11 00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:55,765 She said, "Well, let me introduce you." 12 00:00:57,767 --> 00:01:01,729 I knew that he had murdered two people... 13 00:01:03,773 --> 00:01:08,694 ...in this tiny town in the middle of Wisconsin. 14 00:01:09,612 --> 00:01:14,241 Then I learned all the other things that he had done. 15 00:01:15,910 --> 00:01:19,747 Make lampshades out of human skin, 16 00:01:19,830 --> 00:01:24,210 take skulls and make soup bowls out of them, 17 00:01:24,293 --> 00:01:29,173 and had a tremendous number of things that he did 18 00:01:29,256 --> 00:01:31,759 that were kind of macabre. 19 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,277 [Morrison] He knew that they had made a movie. 20 00:01:50,361 --> 00:01:52,112 [music builds, continues] 21 00:01:57,535 --> 00:02:03,916 The comparison between the two of them was so right on 22 00:02:03,999 --> 00:02:07,253 that it was very, very scary. 23 00:02:11,507 --> 00:02:13,132 But I was interested. 24 00:02:13,217 --> 00:02:15,386 I've always been curious. 25 00:02:15,469 --> 00:02:18,597 That's been my downfall. [laughs] 26 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,891 [mid-tempo music plays] 27 00:02:43,247 --> 00:02:45,291 [ominous music plays] 28 00:02:53,549 --> 00:02:54,967 [button clicks] 29 00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:57,344 [men speaking indistinctly on recording] 30 00:03:03,517 --> 00:03:05,352 [Weiland] You know, over the years, 31 00:03:05,436 --> 00:03:07,897 when these movies would come out about Ed Gein, 32 00:03:07,980 --> 00:03:12,526 I never was really interested because we lived the fact. 33 00:03:14,403 --> 00:03:16,780 It's a terrible thing for Ed Gein, 34 00:03:16,864 --> 00:03:19,325 it's a terrible thing for the people involved, 35 00:03:19,408 --> 00:03:20,701 and it was a terrible thing 36 00:03:20,784 --> 00:03:22,620 for the whole community of Plainfield. 37 00:03:26,874 --> 00:03:30,628 Why Ed Gein done what he done, I don't know. 38 00:03:30,711 --> 00:03:33,505 It's just too bad that the whole thing happened. 39 00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:35,215 Don't know what to call him. 40 00:03:35,299 --> 00:03:37,635 I don't know if he was deranged or if he was insane. 41 00:03:37,718 --> 00:03:40,638 [ominous music plays] 42 00:03:40,721 --> 00:03:43,807 I'm not proud to connect my dad with Ed Gein. 43 00:03:44,433 --> 00:03:48,395 But I'm proud of the way he handled the case 44 00:03:48,479 --> 00:03:52,399 and that things were handled the way they were handled. 45 00:03:52,483 --> 00:03:55,277 [projector clicking] 46 00:03:55,361 --> 00:03:58,364 [music continues] 47 00:04:12,336 --> 00:04:14,463 [music builds, ends] 48 00:04:14,546 --> 00:04:16,757 [mid-tempo music plays] 49 00:04:34,149 --> 00:04:36,026 [camera flash clicks, whirs] 50 00:04:36,110 --> 00:04:37,778 [Hitchcock] I once made a movie, 51 00:04:37,861 --> 00:04:40,698 rather tongue-in-cheek, called Psycho. 52 00:04:40,781 --> 00:04:43,033 [music continues] 53 00:04:45,869 --> 00:04:48,038 A lot of people looked at this thing and said, 54 00:04:48,122 --> 00:04:51,500 "What a dreadful thing to do," "How awful," and so forth. 55 00:04:51,583 --> 00:04:52,918 But, of course, to me, 56 00:04:53,002 --> 00:04:56,588 it had great elements of the cinema in it. 57 00:04:56,672 --> 00:04:59,466 [music slows, continues] 58 00:04:59,550 --> 00:05:01,427 [Gillard] Psycho originally appealed 59 00:05:01,510 --> 00:05:03,012 to one of Hitchcock's assistants, 60 00:05:03,095 --> 00:05:05,514 who placed the novel in front of Hitchcock and said, 61 00:05:05,597 --> 00:05:06,807 "Let's do this next, boss." 62 00:05:08,433 --> 00:05:11,311 [Hitchcock] We all enjoy, shall we say, 63 00:05:11,395 --> 00:05:15,399 putting our toe in the cold water of fear. 64 00:05:15,482 --> 00:05:19,611 [music builds, continues] 65 00:05:19,695 --> 00:05:22,990 [Gillard] Hitchcock had just made North by Northwest. 66 00:05:23,574 --> 00:05:26,702 And what came after this was The Birds. 67 00:05:30,456 --> 00:05:33,333 Psycho is a kind of outlier for Hitchcock in many ways. 68 00:05:33,417 --> 00:05:35,919 First of all, of course, it's much more of a horror film 69 00:05:36,003 --> 00:05:38,964 compared to the suspense that he typically is associated with. 70 00:05:40,841 --> 00:05:43,427 [Gillard] Possibly what drew Hitchcock to Psycho 71 00:05:43,510 --> 00:05:46,889 was the idea that this was an American 72 00:05:46,972 --> 00:05:49,558 small-town horror story. 73 00:05:49,641 --> 00:05:51,643 [projector clicking] 74 00:05:53,896 --> 00:05:55,522 [Szczepaniak-Gillece] I think he was so attracted 75 00:05:55,606 --> 00:05:57,066 to this material in general 76 00:05:57,149 --> 00:06:00,110 because he was interested in what makes a character tick 77 00:06:00,194 --> 00:06:01,862 and how we can understand a character 78 00:06:01,945 --> 00:06:03,781 via that character's psychology. 79 00:06:03,864 --> 00:06:05,908 [ominous music plays] 80 00:06:10,454 --> 00:06:14,416 [reporter] The name of Ed Gein means return of memories, 81 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:16,960 memories that many have been trying to forget. 82 00:06:17,044 --> 00:06:19,630 [down-tempo music plays] 83 00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:24,009 Hitchcock attempted to get financing 84 00:06:24,093 --> 00:06:25,844 through his studio for this, 85 00:06:25,928 --> 00:06:28,722 and the studio pushed it away, rejected it, and said, 86 00:06:28,806 --> 00:06:31,391 "You can't make this film. This is not what we want." 87 00:06:32,601 --> 00:06:34,019 And so what Hitchcock did 88 00:06:34,103 --> 00:06:36,480 was enforce the terms of his contract, 89 00:06:36,563 --> 00:06:39,525 which gave him creative control over even big questions like, 90 00:06:39,608 --> 00:06:42,402 "Okay. What film are we doing next?" 91 00:06:42,486 --> 00:06:46,698 You have to remember that this process of frightening 92 00:06:46,782 --> 00:06:50,702 is done by means of a given medium, 93 00:06:50,786 --> 00:06:52,996 the medium of pure cinema. 94 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,165 [suspenseful music plays] 95 00:06:58,293 --> 00:07:01,421 [camera flash clicks, whirs] 96 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,049 [Gillard] Hitchcock used his TV crew, 97 00:07:04,133 --> 00:07:07,469 not his film crew, to make this. 98 00:07:07,886 --> 00:07:09,555 And that's part of the reason 99 00:07:09,638 --> 00:07:11,223 why the film's in black and white 100 00:07:11,306 --> 00:07:14,601 when his previous films had been in color. 101 00:07:14,977 --> 00:07:17,938 He was using the tools that his TV crew knew best 102 00:07:18,021 --> 00:07:19,148 to make this film. 103 00:07:19,231 --> 00:07:21,608 [dramatic music plays] 104 00:07:25,612 --> 00:07:29,116 That's one really interesting thing about Psycho. 105 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:32,161 Of course, at that time, black and white 106 00:07:32,244 --> 00:07:34,788 is still a little bit more associated with realism 107 00:07:34,872 --> 00:07:35,956 than color film, right? 108 00:07:36,039 --> 00:07:37,875 Because color has this long history 109 00:07:37,958 --> 00:07:40,460 of being used as something of fantasy. 110 00:07:41,003 --> 00:07:42,754 Think about The Wizard of Oz. 111 00:07:42,838 --> 00:07:44,548 When Dorothy goes to Oz, 112 00:07:44,631 --> 00:07:46,133 all of a sudden, everything's in color. 113 00:07:46,216 --> 00:07:48,260 We still kind of have those associations 114 00:07:48,343 --> 00:07:52,097 with black and white versus color by 1960. 115 00:07:52,181 --> 00:07:55,142 We don't think of Psycho as, like, a realism, 116 00:07:55,225 --> 00:07:57,102 realistic kind of movie. 117 00:07:57,186 --> 00:08:00,105 But the use of that particular kind of film stock 118 00:08:00,189 --> 00:08:04,193 actually places it much more in the realm of lived experience 119 00:08:04,276 --> 00:08:05,861 and of the world. 120 00:08:05,944 --> 00:08:10,282 The assembly of pieces of film to create fright 121 00:08:10,365 --> 00:08:13,952 is the essential part of my job, 122 00:08:14,035 --> 00:08:18,164 just as much as a painter would, 123 00:08:18,248 --> 00:08:21,043 by putting certain colors together, 124 00:08:21,126 --> 00:08:24,046 create evil on canvas. 125 00:08:24,129 --> 00:08:28,091 [dramatic music plays] 126 00:08:28,175 --> 00:08:30,510 [Norman] Well, I-I run the office 127 00:08:30,594 --> 00:08:33,305 and, uh, tend the cabins and grounds and -- 128 00:08:33,388 --> 00:08:35,807 and do little, uh, errands for my mother. 129 00:08:35,891 --> 00:08:39,686 I think the first time I saw Psycho, I was a teenager. 130 00:08:39,770 --> 00:08:41,104 I think I was about 15. 131 00:08:41,188 --> 00:08:43,023 And it scared the living daylights out of me. 132 00:08:43,106 --> 00:08:44,733 I was absolutely terrified. 133 00:08:44,816 --> 00:08:46,902 I mean, it was just absolute terror. 134 00:08:46,985 --> 00:08:48,987 [Bernard Herrmann's "The Murder" plays] 135 00:08:49,071 --> 00:08:53,075 The movie signals something about this interest in violence, 136 00:08:53,158 --> 00:08:55,035 this interest in the kind of perversions 137 00:08:55,118 --> 00:08:57,287 underneath the placid surface. 138 00:08:57,371 --> 00:09:00,958 Sometimes when she talks to me like that, 139 00:09:01,041 --> 00:09:02,668 I feel I'd like to go up there. 140 00:09:02,751 --> 00:09:05,003 [Szczepaniak-Gillece] This is a shot that is so famous, 141 00:09:05,087 --> 00:09:06,546 and many people turn to this shot 142 00:09:06,630 --> 00:09:08,006 when they're talking about Psycho. 143 00:09:08,090 --> 00:09:10,926 And that's because this is a really, really great 144 00:09:11,009 --> 00:09:13,762 low angle here where we see Norman Bates. 145 00:09:13,845 --> 00:09:16,014 Something's very, very wrong. 146 00:09:16,098 --> 00:09:18,100 Something's wrong in Norman's psychology. 147 00:09:18,183 --> 00:09:19,893 All is not what it seems. 148 00:09:19,977 --> 00:09:22,229 And this is the scene where Norman says something equivalent 149 00:09:22,312 --> 00:09:26,191 to, "A boy's best friend is his mother." 150 00:09:26,275 --> 00:09:27,859 One of the things that we can see 151 00:09:27,943 --> 00:09:31,613 as Hitchcock's career progresses is that he really uses 152 00:09:31,697 --> 00:09:34,658 a lot of these kind of psychoanalytic approaches 153 00:09:34,741 --> 00:09:36,994 and approaches to character psychology. 154 00:09:37,077 --> 00:09:40,622 And that was part of what made it such a raging success. 155 00:09:40,706 --> 00:09:42,749 [mid-tempo music plays] 156 00:09:51,133 --> 00:09:53,969 [down-tempo music plays] 157 00:09:54,052 --> 00:09:56,096 Psycho was released just over two years 158 00:09:56,179 --> 00:09:58,223 after Ed Gein's crimes were discovered. 159 00:10:00,392 --> 00:10:02,894 [Hitchcock] I've suggested that Psycho be seen 160 00:10:02,978 --> 00:10:04,229 from the beginning. 161 00:10:04,855 --> 00:10:08,942 In fact, this is more than a suggestion. 162 00:10:09,026 --> 00:10:11,653 It is required. 163 00:10:11,737 --> 00:10:14,239 [music continues] 164 00:10:14,323 --> 00:10:16,199 [Szczepaniak-Gillece] This was the very first time 165 00:10:16,283 --> 00:10:19,703 that audiences were not allowed to enter the film 166 00:10:19,786 --> 00:10:22,831 after the movie had started. 167 00:10:23,332 --> 00:10:26,626 So if you wanted to buy a ticket and go see Psycho, 168 00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:28,378 you had to get there when it started, 169 00:10:28,462 --> 00:10:31,882 because Hitchcock didn't want anybody to give away the twist. 170 00:10:31,965 --> 00:10:35,385 [announcer] No one but no one will be admitted to the theater 171 00:10:35,469 --> 00:10:38,638 after the start of each performance of Psycho. 172 00:10:39,264 --> 00:10:42,726 [Gillard] Audiences loved the film. 173 00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:45,812 It was amazingly popular. 174 00:10:45,896 --> 00:10:48,857 But reviewers, less so. 175 00:10:49,524 --> 00:10:51,693 And in many of the reviews, 176 00:10:51,777 --> 00:10:53,779 Hitchcock was getting a lot of credit for, like... 177 00:10:53,862 --> 00:10:55,322 "And, wow, Hitchcock had the courage 178 00:10:55,405 --> 00:10:57,949 to kill off the main character so early." 179 00:10:58,033 --> 00:10:59,951 [dramatic music plays] 180 00:11:00,035 --> 00:11:02,412 [Hitchcock] This film had a horrible scene at the beginning 181 00:11:02,496 --> 00:11:04,790 of a girl being murdered in a shower. 182 00:11:04,873 --> 00:11:08,418 Well, I deliberately made that pretty rough, 183 00:11:08,502 --> 00:11:10,337 but as the film developed, 184 00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:15,967 I put less and less physical horror into it. 185 00:11:16,051 --> 00:11:19,805 I was transferring it from film into their minds. 186 00:11:19,888 --> 00:11:22,349 So towards the end, I had no violence at all. 187 00:11:22,432 --> 00:11:26,103 But the audience, by this time, was screaming in agony. 188 00:11:26,186 --> 00:11:28,188 [down-tempo music plays] 189 00:11:28,271 --> 00:11:31,066 Psycho was a lot more raw than earlier Hitchcock films. 190 00:11:31,149 --> 00:11:32,734 And I don't want to make it sound 191 00:11:32,818 --> 00:11:35,695 that Hitchcock wasn't interested in psychology before, 192 00:11:35,779 --> 00:11:38,240 but here in Psycho, we have it linked up 193 00:11:38,323 --> 00:11:40,367 with it actually being a real story, 194 00:11:40,450 --> 00:11:42,911 and that makes it really, really scary. 195 00:11:42,994 --> 00:11:45,163 [music builds, continues] 196 00:11:45,247 --> 00:11:47,249 It's in the title. 197 00:11:47,332 --> 00:11:50,460 It's about somebody being a psychotic. 198 00:11:50,544 --> 00:11:53,130 And that is really different 199 00:11:53,213 --> 00:11:56,341 from just saying, "This monster is outlandish. 200 00:11:56,425 --> 00:11:58,844 This monster can never happen." 201 00:11:58,927 --> 00:12:02,264 Here we have a monster who is defined 202 00:12:02,347 --> 00:12:05,392 by the inner workings of his brain. 203 00:12:06,184 --> 00:12:09,396 And that's what I think makes it such a different horror film. 204 00:12:09,479 --> 00:12:12,357 [music continues] 205 00:12:12,441 --> 00:12:15,360 [Schechter] I grew up in the 1950s, baby boomer, 206 00:12:15,444 --> 00:12:18,029 and going to the movies all the time. 207 00:12:18,113 --> 00:12:20,115 All the monsters -- 208 00:12:20,198 --> 00:12:22,993 All the monsters in movies back then... 209 00:12:24,578 --> 00:12:28,206 ...were alien in some way. 210 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:31,334 [ominous music plays] 211 00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:37,382 What Hitchcock did with Psycho 212 00:12:37,466 --> 00:12:43,346 was he created the first, like, all-American cinematic monster. 213 00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:45,056 [camera flash clicks, whirs] 214 00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:48,894 And it was, of course, directly inspired by Gein. 215 00:12:48,977 --> 00:12:50,979 [down-tempo music plays] 216 00:12:58,987 --> 00:13:01,156 [projector clicking] 217 00:13:01,239 --> 00:13:03,909 [music continues] 218 00:13:08,497 --> 00:13:11,500 [Morrison] I was doing emergency coverage 219 00:13:11,583 --> 00:13:14,377 at Mendota Mental Health Institute. 220 00:13:14,461 --> 00:13:16,796 I was on the ward, 221 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,382 and one of the nurses said, "Have you met Ed Gein?" 222 00:13:19,466 --> 00:13:21,301 I said, "No, I haven't." 223 00:13:21,384 --> 00:13:23,595 She said, "Well, let me introduce you." 224 00:13:23,678 --> 00:13:24,971 I was interested. 225 00:13:25,055 --> 00:13:27,140 I've always been curious. 226 00:13:27,224 --> 00:13:30,352 That's been my downfall. [laughs] 227 00:13:30,435 --> 00:13:33,230 [projector clicking] 228 00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:38,902 I saw the movie Psycho when I was in high school. 229 00:13:38,985 --> 00:13:41,321 [down-tempo music plays] 230 00:13:41,404 --> 00:13:44,824 And I was terrified by it. 231 00:13:44,908 --> 00:13:47,536 I remember I was with a girlfriend of mine. 232 00:13:47,619 --> 00:13:49,454 We had gone to see the movie. 233 00:13:49,538 --> 00:13:50,914 When we left the movie, 234 00:13:50,997 --> 00:13:53,250 we walked down the middle of the street 235 00:13:53,333 --> 00:13:55,293 'cause we weren't going to be near anybody 236 00:13:55,377 --> 00:13:57,003 who could do anything to us. 237 00:13:57,087 --> 00:13:58,421 [camera flash clicks, whirs] 238 00:13:58,505 --> 00:14:03,134 When you saw the rocker, the rocking chair... 239 00:14:03,218 --> 00:14:05,845 and you saw the mother. 240 00:14:06,972 --> 00:14:08,974 ...and you saw him, 241 00:14:09,057 --> 00:14:16,982 you could see that Ed Gein was the prototype for the character. 242 00:14:18,525 --> 00:14:20,610 The first meeting of him, 243 00:14:20,694 --> 00:14:23,947 he was in what we called the day room. 244 00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:26,533 And I went up to talk to him. 245 00:14:48,555 --> 00:14:50,056 [music continues] 246 00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:52,100 [Morrison] We would talk about the weather. 247 00:14:52,183 --> 00:14:55,020 We would talk about some of the things he remembered 248 00:14:55,103 --> 00:14:57,480 about his life. 249 00:14:57,564 --> 00:15:01,192 He was aware that he had been very much written about 250 00:15:01,276 --> 00:15:03,361 and talked about. 251 00:15:03,695 --> 00:15:07,282 [man] Nice man. Just like anybody else. 252 00:15:07,365 --> 00:15:10,118 Seems to be harmless fella, you know? 253 00:15:10,201 --> 00:15:14,205 I knew his dad more than 40 years ago, 254 00:15:14,289 --> 00:15:16,916 when he used to haul potatoes in town. 255 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,543 He was very soft spoken. 256 00:15:18,627 --> 00:15:21,921 My sister-in-law -- she's in a home now -- 257 00:15:22,005 --> 00:15:25,258 She said, "Did you know Eddie Gein killed Mrs. Worden?" 258 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,057 [music continues] 259 00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:35,226 He knew that they had made a movie 260 00:15:35,310 --> 00:15:39,981 in which he was the prototype for the character. 261 00:15:41,024 --> 00:15:42,442 Oh. 262 00:15:42,525 --> 00:15:45,654 We have 12 vacancies -- 12 cabins, 12 vacancies. 263 00:15:45,737 --> 00:15:50,075 Ed Gein was Norman Bates, and Norman Bates was Ed Gein -- 264 00:15:50,158 --> 00:15:56,414 mild-mannered, attractive, nice to people around him. 265 00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:59,542 [ominous music plays] 266 00:16:00,168 --> 00:16:05,173 But very much hidden were all of the crazy things that he did. 267 00:16:05,256 --> 00:16:08,009 [camera whirs, clicks] 268 00:16:08,093 --> 00:16:10,053 [music continues] 269 00:16:13,139 --> 00:16:18,436 Some people had made movies or some characters after him, 270 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,314 but that didn't make him any better. 271 00:16:21,398 --> 00:16:24,317 He was just very bland about everything. 272 00:16:24,401 --> 00:16:28,071 He never seemed to show much emotion. 273 00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:33,034 But that's so common in serial murderers. 274 00:16:33,535 --> 00:16:36,705 But he didn't like to talk about his crimes. 275 00:16:36,788 --> 00:16:39,998 He didn't want to glorify it. 276 00:16:40,083 --> 00:16:42,419 [dramatic music plays] 277 00:16:45,213 --> 00:16:49,175 Psycho was such a powerful movie. 278 00:16:50,385 --> 00:16:54,472 He had so many people after him. 279 00:16:54,555 --> 00:16:58,016 He was hounded by everybody. 280 00:17:16,161 --> 00:17:19,080 [music continues] 281 00:17:24,711 --> 00:17:27,464 [reporter] There will be an auction here Palm Sunday. 282 00:17:27,547 --> 00:17:30,341 But this house and the personal belongings of Ed Gein 283 00:17:30,425 --> 00:17:32,510 will be conspicuously absent. 284 00:17:32,594 --> 00:17:35,263 Call it an act of God or whatever you will. 285 00:17:35,346 --> 00:17:37,348 The main attraction will be missing, 286 00:17:37,432 --> 00:17:41,102 reduced to a mass of rubble by a mysterious fire. 287 00:17:44,647 --> 00:17:47,734 All we knew is that one morning we got up 288 00:17:47,817 --> 00:17:49,778 and Eddie Gein's house had burnt down. 289 00:17:49,861 --> 00:17:51,529 [music continues] 290 00:17:51,613 --> 00:17:53,782 [reporter] The farm where at Gein lived 291 00:17:53,865 --> 00:17:57,368 and where much of the grisly evidence has been found 292 00:17:57,452 --> 00:17:58,620 has been leveled. 293 00:17:58,703 --> 00:18:01,372 It burned down one night. No one knows why. 294 00:18:01,456 --> 00:18:03,875 But since then, the ground has been bulldozed over 295 00:18:03,958 --> 00:18:06,711 and trees planted there, trying, apparently, 296 00:18:06,795 --> 00:18:10,673 to wipe out every vestige of the grisly tragedy. 297 00:18:11,299 --> 00:18:13,676 [Reid] We had heard that it took a long time 298 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,596 for the fire department to get there. 299 00:18:16,679 --> 00:18:19,140 I'm sure it was arson, and I think there was proof of that, 300 00:18:19,224 --> 00:18:22,101 but everybody was glad. 301 00:18:36,324 --> 00:18:38,451 [ominous music plays] 302 00:18:41,538 --> 00:18:44,582 [Reid] We'd heard they were gonna make a museum out of it, 303 00:18:44,666 --> 00:18:48,419 and that would be the last thing that the community needed. 304 00:18:48,962 --> 00:18:52,340 After it burnt, everybody was glad that it had burnt 305 00:18:52,423 --> 00:18:57,136 rather than having a museum of a sick man's home. 306 00:18:57,595 --> 00:19:00,306 [music continues] 307 00:19:04,352 --> 00:19:07,772 The people of Plainfield and the area hope that 10 years -- 308 00:19:07,856 --> 00:19:10,817 Oh, stop. There's... Stop a minute. 309 00:19:13,027 --> 00:19:15,613 [man speaking indistinctly] 310 00:19:16,698 --> 00:19:20,493 But a period of 10 years isn't enough for people to forget. 311 00:19:20,577 --> 00:19:23,162 The farmers and people of Plainfield 312 00:19:23,246 --> 00:19:25,665 hope they won't have to return to the agony, 313 00:19:25,748 --> 00:19:29,294 the notoriety that accompanied the Ed Gein case 314 00:19:29,377 --> 00:19:30,461 just 10 years ago. 315 00:19:30,545 --> 00:19:32,589 [projector clicking] 316 00:19:37,302 --> 00:19:39,512 [music continues] 317 00:19:42,891 --> 00:19:45,685 [button clicks] 318 00:19:45,935 --> 00:19:48,771 [Schlesinger] He was found incompetent for many years. 319 00:19:48,855 --> 00:19:52,525 And I think the reason was because what he did 320 00:19:52,609 --> 00:19:54,319 was just so outrageous. 321 00:19:54,402 --> 00:19:57,947 It was so bizarre that the psychiatrists that evaluated him 322 00:19:58,031 --> 00:20:01,659 as well as the judge, probably, said, "I just don't know. 323 00:20:01,743 --> 00:20:04,370 Let's just wait and see what we have." 324 00:20:04,454 --> 00:20:06,706 [projector clicking] 325 00:20:07,332 --> 00:20:09,667 Eventually, he was found competent to proceed 326 00:20:09,751 --> 00:20:11,878 because he always was competent. 327 00:20:11,961 --> 00:20:14,505 [music continues] 328 00:20:14,589 --> 00:20:16,507 Oh, he looks somewhat healthier. 329 00:20:16,591 --> 00:20:21,346 He seemed a rather dark and gaunt personage 10 years ago. 330 00:20:23,473 --> 00:20:27,727 He seems more like a middle-aged businessman at this time. 331 00:20:29,437 --> 00:20:31,731 Ed Gein, he had all kinds of fantasies 332 00:20:31,814 --> 00:20:33,316 about traveling to Europe. 333 00:20:33,399 --> 00:20:35,568 [dramatic music plays] 334 00:20:50,375 --> 00:20:52,669 [music continues] 335 00:20:53,544 --> 00:20:55,880 [Bowser] This is the courtroom where Ed Gein was. 336 00:20:55,964 --> 00:20:57,548 -Hey, Scott. -Hey, Wes. 337 00:20:57,632 --> 00:20:58,549 Nice to see you. 338 00:20:58,633 --> 00:21:00,885 [music continues] 339 00:21:02,971 --> 00:21:04,973 This would have been whereabouts Ed Gein stood 340 00:21:05,056 --> 00:21:06,516 when he was on trial. 341 00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:08,059 I pretty much think it's identical 342 00:21:08,142 --> 00:21:11,688 to what it was back then, from the photos I've seen. 343 00:21:11,771 --> 00:21:14,315 [music continues] 344 00:21:21,698 --> 00:21:25,576 [reporter] Judge Robert Gollmar presided over Gein's 1968 trial. 345 00:21:25,660 --> 00:21:26,911 Gein was found insane. 346 00:21:26,995 --> 00:21:29,914 When he first appeared before me, 347 00:21:29,998 --> 00:21:33,001 I got the impression somewhat of a puppy. 348 00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:37,296 He was a small, neat-looking man, 349 00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:38,798 and he stood there 350 00:21:38,881 --> 00:21:42,510 with a kind of ingratiating little smile on his face. 351 00:21:42,593 --> 00:21:45,638 It was obvious he wanted to make a good impression on the judge, 352 00:21:45,722 --> 00:21:47,807 and if he'd had a tail to wiggle, 353 00:21:47,890 --> 00:21:52,311 I'm sure the puppy description would apply to him. 354 00:21:52,395 --> 00:21:54,313 [down-tempo music plays] 355 00:21:54,397 --> 00:21:57,734 [Schechter] I had contacted Judge Robert Gollmar 356 00:21:57,817 --> 00:22:00,820 and was invited to his home. 357 00:22:03,823 --> 00:22:08,369 He did have this kind of Colonel Sanders aura about him. 358 00:22:08,453 --> 00:22:10,705 [music continues] 359 00:22:10,788 --> 00:22:13,458 He'd kind of basked, I think, a little 360 00:22:13,541 --> 00:22:16,002 in his connection to the Gein case... 361 00:22:17,837 --> 00:22:21,674 ...because it was obviously kind of the highlight 362 00:22:21,758 --> 00:22:23,926 of his judicial career, 363 00:22:24,010 --> 00:22:30,516 and he had taken advantage of his position in the case 364 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,810 to write a book about Gein. 365 00:22:35,646 --> 00:22:38,691 One thing he did do in the book 366 00:22:38,775 --> 00:22:43,362 was reproduce crime-scene photographs 367 00:22:43,446 --> 00:22:49,660 of Bernice Worden's violated corpse hanging from the rafters, 368 00:22:49,744 --> 00:22:53,122 disemboweled -- very shocking photographs... 369 00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:57,627 ...which had incurred the anger 370 00:22:57,710 --> 00:23:00,505 and the resentment of the people of Plainfield, 371 00:23:00,588 --> 00:23:02,924 because they felt those photographs 372 00:23:03,007 --> 00:23:05,718 should never have been publicized. 373 00:23:08,679 --> 00:23:11,808 [Gollmar] He took parts of the people home with him. 374 00:23:11,891 --> 00:23:15,895 He took the skin of women particularly. 375 00:23:15,978 --> 00:23:18,689 He decorated furniture with it. 376 00:23:18,773 --> 00:23:23,444 He made many other items out of it. 377 00:23:23,528 --> 00:23:24,862 [down-tempo music plays] 378 00:23:24,946 --> 00:23:26,030 [Schechter] At that time -- 379 00:23:26,114 --> 00:23:28,116 I don't know if it still holds -- 380 00:23:28,199 --> 00:23:30,952 but Wisconsin had what they call these bifurcated, 381 00:23:31,035 --> 00:23:32,662 or split trials. 382 00:23:33,287 --> 00:23:37,959 First, Gein would be tried for the murder of Bernice Worden. 383 00:23:38,042 --> 00:23:41,003 Then he would immediately have another trial 384 00:23:41,087 --> 00:23:44,590 in which his mental competence would be determined. 385 00:23:44,674 --> 00:23:46,801 [projector clicking] 386 00:23:46,884 --> 00:23:49,720 [Weiland] My folks never talked about a trial. 387 00:23:49,804 --> 00:23:51,973 I don't think that they thought we needed to know 388 00:23:52,056 --> 00:23:55,685 these horrific details of the crime. 389 00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:58,187 We knew that my dad was having -- 390 00:23:58,271 --> 00:24:01,607 We thought that my dad was having heart problems. 391 00:24:01,691 --> 00:24:06,529 My dad would get such bad pains, and I hated to see that. 392 00:24:06,612 --> 00:24:07,989 I'd say, "Dad, what's the matter? 393 00:24:08,072 --> 00:24:09,740 What's the matter?" "Oh, nothing. 394 00:24:09,824 --> 00:24:11,742 I just got indigestion," he'd say. 395 00:24:12,201 --> 00:24:14,745 But then one night, it was just a massive heart attack, 396 00:24:14,829 --> 00:24:15,955 and that was it. 397 00:24:16,038 --> 00:24:19,709 He had just turned 43 years old. 398 00:24:20,334 --> 00:24:22,044 [Marcus] One of his relatives said 399 00:24:22,128 --> 00:24:25,131 that the sheriff was actually the last victim of Ed Gein 400 00:24:25,214 --> 00:24:28,092 because he was so disturbed by what he'd seen 401 00:24:28,176 --> 00:24:30,178 and so disturbed at what Ed Gein's actions 402 00:24:30,261 --> 00:24:31,679 did to him personally, 403 00:24:31,762 --> 00:24:34,056 Ed Gein may as well have killed him. 404 00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:38,978 -[group vocalizing] -[ominous music plays] 405 00:24:39,687 --> 00:24:41,606 [Schechter] Gein was found guilty 406 00:24:41,689 --> 00:24:45,067 of the first-degree murder of Bernice Worden. 407 00:24:45,151 --> 00:24:48,571 Immediately, there was a second part of the trial, 408 00:24:48,654 --> 00:24:51,574 and he was declared mentally incompetent 409 00:24:51,657 --> 00:24:54,619 and returned to the mental institution. 410 00:24:54,702 --> 00:24:56,537 [music continues] 411 00:24:56,621 --> 00:24:57,914 So, in effect, 412 00:24:57,997 --> 00:25:02,043 Gein was convicted and acquitted at the same time. 413 00:25:02,919 --> 00:25:04,921 [music continues] 414 00:25:14,013 --> 00:25:16,807 [Schlesinger] The issue is his mental state 415 00:25:16,891 --> 00:25:18,893 at the time of the crime. 416 00:25:18,976 --> 00:25:21,854 In this case, you could argue that he has a mental disorder, 417 00:25:21,938 --> 00:25:24,941 but that's not all with respect in meeting the legal standard. 418 00:25:38,871 --> 00:25:41,207 [Schlesinger] You need a defect of reason. 419 00:25:41,290 --> 00:25:44,752 And that usually means your thinking is delusional -- 420 00:25:44,835 --> 00:25:46,587 "God told me to do it." 421 00:25:46,671 --> 00:25:48,673 "Martians are controlling my mind" -- that type of thing. 422 00:25:48,756 --> 00:25:50,007 Well, Gein knew what he was doing. 423 00:25:50,091 --> 00:25:51,676 He knew very well what he was doing. 424 00:26:11,362 --> 00:26:13,823 [music continues] 425 00:26:14,782 --> 00:26:17,618 [Schlesinger] When I look at this from a distance, 426 00:26:17,702 --> 00:26:21,706 I don't see any basis for incompetency or legal insanity. 427 00:26:21,789 --> 00:26:23,207 Disturbance? Yes. 428 00:26:23,291 --> 00:26:25,793 Legal insanity? Based on what? 429 00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:27,086 He knew what he was doing, 430 00:26:27,169 --> 00:26:28,796 and he knew what he was doing was wrong. 431 00:26:28,879 --> 00:26:29,922 That's the standard. 432 00:26:30,006 --> 00:26:33,592 [ominous music plays] 433 00:26:43,477 --> 00:26:45,354 [Bowser] Back in 1962, 434 00:26:45,438 --> 00:26:48,733 the crime-scene investigators returned all the body parts 435 00:26:48,816 --> 00:26:51,694 from Ed Gein's house, and they put them in a mass grave, 436 00:26:51,777 --> 00:26:53,946 which would include Mary Hogan's head. 437 00:26:54,030 --> 00:26:55,990 So they're all in that one grave. 438 00:26:59,076 --> 00:27:01,078 So this is the spot of the mass grave 439 00:27:01,162 --> 00:27:03,247 where all the body parts are. 440 00:27:03,331 --> 00:27:05,666 His skin suit, all the masks, 441 00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:08,002 Mary Hogan's head is probably here. 442 00:27:08,085 --> 00:27:09,795 So now we're trying to uncover it. 443 00:27:17,345 --> 00:27:20,306 Okay. This is it. We found it. 444 00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:22,933 [down-tempo music plays] 445 00:27:23,768 --> 00:27:26,103 It says, "This is dedicated to the unknown 446 00:27:26,187 --> 00:27:27,396 that are buried here." 447 00:27:31,859 --> 00:27:35,071 [reporter] Gein admitted to digging up nine to 11 bodies, 448 00:27:35,154 --> 00:27:37,198 most from this Plainfield cemetery. 449 00:27:37,281 --> 00:27:38,949 But to this day, 450 00:27:39,033 --> 00:27:41,702 no one is sure how many graves may actually be empty. 451 00:27:53,172 --> 00:27:55,216 [music continues] 452 00:27:59,303 --> 00:28:02,348 So it's actually weird that they would not have confirmed 453 00:28:02,431 --> 00:28:06,936 and identified precisely who was missing from which grave. 454 00:28:07,812 --> 00:28:11,357 I don't think nowadays anyone would accept the -- 455 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,900 What should we call him? 456 00:28:14,235 --> 00:28:16,946 The patient or the perpetrator? 457 00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:21,826 ...would accept their self-report as being valid 458 00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:23,452 and entirely truthful, 459 00:28:23,536 --> 00:28:27,790 especially if you're raising issues about mental illness. 460 00:28:28,499 --> 00:28:31,001 [reporter] Plainfield does not want to be remembered 461 00:28:31,085 --> 00:28:32,837 as the home of Ed Gein. 462 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,840 People here do not want to be reminded that it was murder 463 00:28:35,923 --> 00:28:38,843 and grave robbery which put Plainfield on the map. 464 00:28:38,926 --> 00:28:41,470 [down-tempo music plays] 465 00:28:41,554 --> 00:28:43,848 [Marcus] The people of Plainfield were angry 466 00:28:43,931 --> 00:28:47,768 that the world had shined a spotlight on them 467 00:28:47,852 --> 00:28:50,020 as the home of Ed Gein. 468 00:28:50,104 --> 00:28:52,523 [projector clicking] 469 00:28:52,606 --> 00:28:54,859 They were this small farming community 470 00:28:54,942 --> 00:28:57,862 that was perfectly happy with being isolated 471 00:28:57,945 --> 00:29:00,865 and not being known by the rest of the world. 472 00:29:01,615 --> 00:29:04,493 [Schechter] It was very traumatic to the community. 473 00:29:05,161 --> 00:29:09,039 And after the Gein crimes came to light, 474 00:29:09,123 --> 00:29:14,503 all these jokes began to circulate around the community. 475 00:29:17,214 --> 00:29:18,883 They were called "Geiners." 476 00:29:18,966 --> 00:29:22,094 So they're not especially funny, but it would be like, 477 00:29:22,178 --> 00:29:27,141 "Why did Ed Gein always keep the heat on in his house? 478 00:29:27,224 --> 00:29:30,519 So the furniture wouldn't get goose bumps." 479 00:29:30,603 --> 00:29:35,858 Or, "Why didn't people want to play cards with Ed? 480 00:29:35,941 --> 00:29:39,945 'Cause they were afraid he'd come up with a good hand." 481 00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:45,534 "What were Ed Gein's favorite pastries? 482 00:29:45,618 --> 00:29:48,245 Ladyfingers." You know, stuff like that. 483 00:29:48,329 --> 00:29:52,208 You know, folklorists tend to see that kind of sick humor 484 00:29:52,291 --> 00:29:57,546 as, you know, a defense against all the horrors. 485 00:30:01,967 --> 00:30:03,886 I remember when we first were reading Harold Schechter 486 00:30:03,969 --> 00:30:06,180 about the concept of Geiners, 487 00:30:06,263 --> 00:30:08,432 and it's kind of a direct line to us, 488 00:30:08,516 --> 00:30:10,267 to The Last Podcast on the Left. 489 00:30:10,351 --> 00:30:12,603 It's more of kind of a mirror of, like, how people react 490 00:30:12,686 --> 00:30:15,940 to that horrible thing and why we say these jokes, 491 00:30:16,023 --> 00:30:19,527 which is to cope with horrible information. 492 00:30:19,610 --> 00:30:21,987 [down-tempo music plays] 493 00:30:36,043 --> 00:30:38,003 [music continues] 494 00:30:41,257 --> 00:30:42,925 [announcer] It's showtime. 495 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,433 [Szczepaniak-Gillece] Texas Chainsaw Massacre 496 00:30:51,517 --> 00:30:53,477 came out in 1974. 497 00:30:53,561 --> 00:30:57,523 A lot of people were very upset by Texas Chainsaw Massacre. 498 00:30:57,606 --> 00:31:01,610 What's the matter, honey? You don't look so good. 499 00:31:01,694 --> 00:31:03,571 Some people were very, very disgusted 500 00:31:03,654 --> 00:31:06,073 and walked out of the film. 501 00:31:06,907 --> 00:31:12,204 They were so upset by what they saw as hyperviolence on-screen. 502 00:31:12,288 --> 00:31:16,917 [music builds, ends] 503 00:31:17,001 --> 00:31:18,586 You're going to see a movie called Texas Chainsaw Massacre. 504 00:31:18,669 --> 00:31:20,462 Like, what do you expect? 505 00:31:20,546 --> 00:31:24,633 But for a lot of audiences, it also was thrilling. 506 00:31:24,717 --> 00:31:26,343 [projector clicking] 507 00:31:26,427 --> 00:31:29,430 It was something that was so new, that was so different, 508 00:31:29,513 --> 00:31:32,558 that was doing something entirely new with this form 509 00:31:32,641 --> 00:31:34,893 and with this genre. 510 00:31:35,978 --> 00:31:37,271 When you understand 511 00:31:37,354 --> 00:31:40,357 that it's partially based on an actual story, 512 00:31:40,441 --> 00:31:41,984 on something that actually happened... 513 00:31:42,067 --> 00:31:44,528 [announcer] What happened was true. 514 00:31:44,612 --> 00:31:47,323 ...all of the sudden, that outlandishness 515 00:31:47,406 --> 00:31:50,117 becomes something that's possible in real life 516 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,578 and possible in somewhere like Wisconsin. 517 00:31:54,622 --> 00:31:58,334 [Hooper] Part of the film's inspiration came from the news. 518 00:31:59,335 --> 00:32:01,545 And it was so graphic. 519 00:32:01,629 --> 00:32:03,547 I mean, it was -- it was unbelievable. 520 00:32:03,631 --> 00:32:06,050 [dramatic music plays] 521 00:32:06,133 --> 00:32:07,259 [projector clicking] 522 00:32:07,343 --> 00:32:09,678 I have relatives from Wisconsin 523 00:32:09,762 --> 00:32:13,182 that lived about 27 miles from, you know, 524 00:32:13,265 --> 00:32:15,184 where the Ed Gein incident happened. 525 00:32:17,311 --> 00:32:20,481 And so when the Wisconsin relatives came to town... 526 00:32:21,065 --> 00:32:23,567 ...they would tell this story 527 00:32:23,651 --> 00:32:27,488 about the guy that covered his furniture with human skin... 528 00:32:29,073 --> 00:32:31,950 ...makes the human-skin lampshades. 529 00:32:32,034 --> 00:32:33,452 "Oh, my God." 530 00:32:33,535 --> 00:32:38,123 And, you know, those people continuously wound me up. 531 00:32:38,582 --> 00:32:40,292 Whatever they told me -- 532 00:32:40,376 --> 00:32:44,588 and I'm sure I can't or wouldn't even want to recall all of it -- 533 00:32:44,672 --> 00:32:45,964 but it stuck with me. 534 00:32:46,048 --> 00:32:48,634 It was always ever-present. 535 00:32:48,717 --> 00:32:51,053 [announcer] The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. 536 00:32:51,136 --> 00:32:53,722 After you stop screaming, you'll start talking about it. 537 00:32:56,725 --> 00:33:00,062 People are afraid of that little house 538 00:33:00,145 --> 00:33:02,147 in the middle of an abandoned field... 539 00:33:02,231 --> 00:33:03,649 [camera flash clicks, whirs] 540 00:33:03,732 --> 00:33:05,609 ...when you're driving down the highway. 541 00:33:05,693 --> 00:33:08,195 It's why Texas Chainsaw Massacre 542 00:33:08,278 --> 00:33:10,030 was based off of his actions, 543 00:33:10,114 --> 00:33:11,990 why Psycho was based off of his actions. 544 00:33:12,074 --> 00:33:17,204 Because it was just such a unique moment in crime history. 545 00:33:17,287 --> 00:33:18,997 And then you see the guy who did it, 546 00:33:19,081 --> 00:33:23,085 and it's this goofy backwoods gremlin. 547 00:33:23,168 --> 00:33:25,379 [dramatic music plays] 548 00:33:31,802 --> 00:33:35,222 [music builds, ends] 549 00:33:35,305 --> 00:33:38,809 I first saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre when I was 22. 550 00:33:38,892 --> 00:33:42,646 I can identify that it was at this exact moment 551 00:33:42,730 --> 00:33:46,108 because it left, like, a really dirty stain on my brain 552 00:33:46,191 --> 00:33:48,026 that I have never been able to scrub away since. 553 00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:50,112 [down-tempo music plays] 554 00:33:52,573 --> 00:33:57,619 I remember really clearly seeing that opening of the film... 555 00:33:58,327 --> 00:34:01,582 and being so unsettled and so upset, 556 00:34:01,664 --> 00:34:04,835 because what that extreme close-up of an eye does 557 00:34:04,918 --> 00:34:09,131 is it puts us immediately in the zone of watching something. 558 00:34:09,213 --> 00:34:11,340 [squeaking in distance] 559 00:34:14,219 --> 00:34:18,432 I think by making Leatherface into this character 560 00:34:18,515 --> 00:34:21,184 who wears somebody else's face, 561 00:34:21,268 --> 00:34:24,146 Tobe Hooper is in some ways making a really sick joke 562 00:34:24,229 --> 00:34:27,191 about how we understand character psychology to work 563 00:34:27,273 --> 00:34:29,693 and how we understand our own psychologies to work. 564 00:34:29,777 --> 00:34:31,653 The face that we present to the world, 565 00:34:31,737 --> 00:34:34,615 often that is kind of the face of another person, 566 00:34:34,698 --> 00:34:36,825 but here it's literalized in Leatherface. 567 00:34:36,909 --> 00:34:39,703 And so imitators and people inspired by it, 568 00:34:39,787 --> 00:34:42,456 they kind of sprang up really, really quickly, 569 00:34:42,539 --> 00:34:44,291 because it was so abundantly clear 570 00:34:44,374 --> 00:34:47,419 that this was a work of such imagination, such creativity, 571 00:34:47,503 --> 00:34:50,297 but also it was a work that was so rooted 572 00:34:50,380 --> 00:34:54,760 in exactly what was happening in the U.S. at exactly that moment. 573 00:35:03,811 --> 00:35:06,146 [down-tempo music plays] 574 00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:10,234 [Morrison] I probably saw him about 10 times. 575 00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:13,737 Every time I went, I was a new person to him, 576 00:35:13,821 --> 00:35:16,240 even though I had seen him before. 577 00:35:16,323 --> 00:35:19,409 And he would not recognize me -- 578 00:35:19,493 --> 00:35:22,287 or he wouldn't seem to recognize me. 579 00:35:22,371 --> 00:35:24,456 [music continues] 580 00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:33,757 People in the hospital basically didn't react at all to him 581 00:35:33,841 --> 00:35:36,844 because he was basically just a patient. 582 00:35:36,927 --> 00:35:38,679 He was demented. 583 00:35:38,762 --> 00:35:42,140 So he really didn't cause any problems. 584 00:35:42,224 --> 00:35:44,768 They never had to call any codes 585 00:35:44,852 --> 00:35:47,604 or any special kinds of interventions 586 00:35:47,688 --> 00:35:49,356 because he was acting out. 587 00:35:49,439 --> 00:35:51,441 He was just there. 588 00:35:51,525 --> 00:35:54,152 [music builds, continues] 589 00:36:06,540 --> 00:36:08,333 He was a monster. 590 00:36:08,417 --> 00:36:14,840 And I think people tended to not see that part of him. 591 00:36:20,596 --> 00:36:23,181 [music slows, continues] 592 00:36:26,268 --> 00:36:29,730 [Schechter] Gein lived as a model prisoner. 593 00:36:30,397 --> 00:36:35,485 Never displayed, certainly, any signs of violence. 594 00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:39,781 [Sherman] The big story was that he was harmless. 595 00:36:39,865 --> 00:36:42,659 I think people kind of felt sorry for him 596 00:36:42,743 --> 00:36:46,663 because he had been there for years now 597 00:36:46,747 --> 00:36:49,666 and wasn't showing symptoms. 598 00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:51,960 [music continues] 599 00:36:52,044 --> 00:36:54,796 [Schechter] It just seemed, in many, many ways, 600 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,676 Ed's life in a mental institution 601 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,764 was far better, you know, than the kind of life 602 00:37:03,847 --> 00:37:06,683 he had been living up to that point. 603 00:37:06,767 --> 00:37:09,686 You know, he was living in this horror house, 604 00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:14,316 you know, surrounded by the body parts of human beings. 605 00:37:14,399 --> 00:37:17,903 No electricity, no running water. 606 00:37:17,986 --> 00:37:22,324 The only living things in the house were the spiders 607 00:37:22,407 --> 00:37:23,575 and the vermin. 608 00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:27,871 Now he was, as they say, three hots and a cot. 609 00:37:27,955 --> 00:37:30,916 We had other human interactions and so on and so forth. 610 00:37:30,999 --> 00:37:34,336 So, you know, I think he lived out his life, 611 00:37:34,419 --> 00:37:36,797 you know, pretty contentedly. 612 00:37:37,506 --> 00:37:40,550 [Morrison] My takeaway from my time with Ed Gein 613 00:37:40,634 --> 00:37:44,012 was I was very sad for him. 614 00:37:44,096 --> 00:37:46,306 [down-tempo music plays] 615 00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:50,394 He was really an enigma... 616 00:37:50,477 --> 00:37:55,983 and he could never have made anything different in his life. 617 00:37:56,066 --> 00:37:59,319 [music builds, continues] 618 00:38:16,503 --> 00:38:18,463 [music ends] 619 00:38:23,427 --> 00:38:25,470 [dramatic music plays] 620 00:38:37,649 --> 00:38:39,609 [music continues] 621 00:38:39,693 --> 00:38:42,362 [snow crunching] 622 00:38:50,537 --> 00:38:51,913 This is it. 623 00:38:51,997 --> 00:38:53,707 Ed's right here. 624 00:38:56,001 --> 00:38:58,587 The tombstone got stolen. 625 00:38:59,212 --> 00:39:03,008 So once it got returned, it's right now in a basement -- 626 00:39:03,091 --> 00:39:06,011 Some cemetery board member has it, 627 00:39:06,094 --> 00:39:07,804 and they're talking about burying it somewhere, 628 00:39:07,888 --> 00:39:09,598 so they never put one back on. 629 00:39:09,681 --> 00:39:11,641 [exhales deeply] Augusta's right here. 630 00:39:11,725 --> 00:39:15,353 Henry's on the far left end. 631 00:39:15,896 --> 00:39:17,814 I always get an adrenaline rush being out here, 632 00:39:17,898 --> 00:39:19,733 seeing all the souvenirs being left for Ed. 633 00:39:19,816 --> 00:39:20,859 [chuckles] 634 00:39:20,942 --> 00:39:22,736 [music continues] 635 00:39:22,819 --> 00:39:25,614 All the incense and work gloves and flowers. 636 00:39:26,031 --> 00:39:28,909 A lot of people come out here and visit Ed. 637 00:39:28,992 --> 00:39:31,036 [music continues] 638 00:39:39,169 --> 00:39:42,714 [Reid] Eddie had a very troubled life, 639 00:39:42,798 --> 00:39:48,386 and I think it had to be a relief to him when the end came. 640 00:39:48,762 --> 00:39:50,889 [music continues] 641 00:39:53,892 --> 00:39:56,019 It affected me not one way or the other. 642 00:39:56,103 --> 00:39:58,563 Eddie had been there part of my life. 643 00:39:58,647 --> 00:40:00,482 Now he's gone. 644 00:40:00,565 --> 00:40:03,443 [dramatic music plays] 645 00:40:12,994 --> 00:40:15,789 -[Down-tempo music plays] -[Parello] I'm from Chicago, 646 00:40:15,872 --> 00:40:20,544 so Ed Gein was always satelliting in my consciousness. 647 00:40:20,627 --> 00:40:21,878 I'm Chuck Parello. 648 00:40:21,962 --> 00:40:25,132 I am the director of the movie Ed Gein. 649 00:40:25,215 --> 00:40:28,718 [Augusta] It is time for you to do the Lord's work. 650 00:40:28,802 --> 00:40:30,011 Are you ready, Edward? 651 00:40:30,095 --> 00:40:31,930 I'm ready, Mama. 652 00:40:32,013 --> 00:40:34,182 [camera flash clicks, whirs] 653 00:40:34,266 --> 00:40:36,226 [Parello] I got into the preparation 654 00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:40,021 for making the Ed Gein movie by first watching 655 00:40:40,105 --> 00:40:43,984 as many incarnations of the story that I could. 656 00:40:44,067 --> 00:40:46,987 So I watched Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, 657 00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:50,740 Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Deranged. 658 00:40:50,824 --> 00:40:52,450 [music continues] 659 00:40:52,534 --> 00:40:55,871 And we did go to Plainfield. 660 00:40:56,955 --> 00:41:01,251 I did feel an obligation to make it historically accurate. 661 00:41:01,334 --> 00:41:05,589 I thought there had been so many fictitious takes on it 662 00:41:05,672 --> 00:41:07,966 and people just borrowing elements from it 663 00:41:08,049 --> 00:41:10,093 that this time around, we were going to tell it 664 00:41:10,177 --> 00:41:12,220 the way that it really happened. 665 00:41:13,889 --> 00:41:16,600 The portrayal of Ed in my film 666 00:41:16,683 --> 00:41:19,519 actually comes off as kind of sympathetic. 667 00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:22,731 I think that ended up being the right decision 668 00:41:22,814 --> 00:41:24,900 because you do empathize with him, 669 00:41:24,983 --> 00:41:27,986 even though he's a horrible, degenerate person. 670 00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:30,989 He was misunderstood, and he just didn't get any help. 671 00:41:31,698 --> 00:41:33,992 I don't really see him as evil. 672 00:41:34,075 --> 00:41:36,077 I see him as someone who's sick, 673 00:41:36,161 --> 00:41:39,122 whose psychosis just kept getting worse and worse 674 00:41:39,206 --> 00:41:43,627 and...who couldn't get any help. 675 00:41:44,085 --> 00:41:47,172 The evilness that manifests itself 676 00:41:47,255 --> 00:41:51,635 in the bad stuff that he did was quite another matter. 677 00:41:51,718 --> 00:41:54,095 [dramatic music plays] 678 00:41:56,681 --> 00:41:58,975 There was a scene in the script 679 00:41:59,059 --> 00:42:03,521 where Ed was sewing together a skin suit, 680 00:42:03,605 --> 00:42:06,983 and I ended up taking it out just because it was too similar 681 00:42:07,067 --> 00:42:10,070 to something that was in The Silence of the Lambs. 682 00:42:10,153 --> 00:42:12,781 [down-tempo music plays] 683 00:42:16,243 --> 00:42:18,245 I knew there would be fanboys who would say, 684 00:42:18,328 --> 00:42:20,664 "Oh, you took that from The Silence of the Lambs, 685 00:42:20,747 --> 00:42:24,042 not knowing that it was actual source-material stuff. 686 00:42:25,710 --> 00:42:28,588 [dramatic music plays] 687 00:42:35,428 --> 00:42:39,057 There's been six movies based on the book Psycho, 688 00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:41,893 and there's been a prequel TV show. 689 00:42:42,352 --> 00:42:44,813 [Szczepaniak-Gillece] House of 1000 Corpses 690 00:42:44,896 --> 00:42:48,733 is a movie that clearly fits into this lineage. 691 00:42:48,817 --> 00:42:51,236 It's so clearly influenced by Tobe Hooper, 692 00:42:51,319 --> 00:42:55,282 but then also with Ed Gein put back in and made central, 693 00:42:55,365 --> 00:42:57,784 more so than in Texas Chainsaw Massacre. 694 00:42:58,618 --> 00:43:00,829 Then Devil's Rejects is a great example, 695 00:43:00,912 --> 00:43:05,083 because that film also takes on a kind of twisted Americana. 696 00:43:07,877 --> 00:43:10,380 There's definitely things about movies like Ed Gein 697 00:43:10,463 --> 00:43:13,925 and Psycho that really makes you look twice 698 00:43:14,009 --> 00:43:15,760 at the kindly neighbor, 699 00:43:15,844 --> 00:43:17,971 you know, that lives next door to you. 700 00:43:18,888 --> 00:43:22,017 When Ed Gein came out, it just became a hit. 701 00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:23,643 [down-tempo music plays] 702 00:43:23,727 --> 00:43:25,895 All of a sudden, it was everywhere. 703 00:43:25,979 --> 00:43:27,939 But at the end of the day, 704 00:43:28,023 --> 00:43:32,610 you just turn it off and go back to leading your normal life. 705 00:43:32,694 --> 00:43:36,156 One thing I tried to do was to show the plight of the victims 706 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,241 and show that these people 707 00:43:38,325 --> 00:43:40,744 actually had horrible things happen. 708 00:43:40,827 --> 00:43:43,288 I think that's what makes it have longevity 709 00:43:43,371 --> 00:43:47,167 and stick-to-your-ribs kind of appeal. 710 00:43:47,876 --> 00:43:50,086 [Szczepaniak-Gillece] I think all of these movies 711 00:43:50,170 --> 00:43:52,047 and the story of Ed Gein, 712 00:43:52,130 --> 00:43:55,050 they really demonstrate a couple of things. 713 00:43:55,133 --> 00:43:57,761 They tell us that horror 714 00:43:57,844 --> 00:44:02,182 is something that is a way that we understand ourselves. 715 00:44:02,265 --> 00:44:07,103 It is a necessary element of how the United States functions. 716 00:44:07,187 --> 00:44:09,022 [projector clicking] 717 00:44:09,105 --> 00:44:11,024 [Parello] I think one of the main attractions 718 00:44:11,107 --> 00:44:13,443 to the Ed Gein character is that he was an outsider. 719 00:44:13,526 --> 00:44:15,945 We've all felt like we didn't belong, 720 00:44:16,029 --> 00:44:18,031 people didn't like us. 721 00:44:18,114 --> 00:44:21,201 So there's this general thing that just -- 722 00:44:21,284 --> 00:44:24,954 that everybody can identify with, and I certainly did. 723 00:44:25,038 --> 00:44:27,248 [ominous music plays] 724 00:44:46,184 --> 00:44:48,269 [music continues] 725 00:44:57,070 --> 00:45:00,865 Well, I mean, no one knew of the existence of this tape. 726 00:45:01,908 --> 00:45:05,328 I mean, this casts a whole new light on the Gein case. 727 00:45:05,412 --> 00:45:09,249 -[button clicks] -It's the whole context. 728 00:45:24,848 --> 00:45:28,017 [Schechter] It's almost as if something emerged, 729 00:45:28,101 --> 00:45:33,523 a crack in Gein's psychology that allowed all this primitive, 730 00:45:33,606 --> 00:45:36,192 archaic stuff to pour out. 731 00:45:36,276 --> 00:45:38,194 [music continues] 732 00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:40,113 In this modern America, 733 00:45:40,196 --> 00:45:42,907 where all these families were gathered around, 734 00:45:42,991 --> 00:45:46,744 you know, watching Leave It to Beaver on TV, 735 00:45:46,828 --> 00:45:49,414 you know, you had this guy, simultaneously, 736 00:45:49,497 --> 00:45:52,917 in this little hellhole of a house... 737 00:45:53,001 --> 00:45:54,794 [music continues] 738 00:45:54,878 --> 00:45:58,882 ...dressing in the victims' skin and so on. 739 00:45:59,215 --> 00:46:01,759 [music continues] 740 00:46:07,849 --> 00:46:10,560 The question arises as to why does Gein 741 00:46:10,643 --> 00:46:14,981 or any offender like him keep doing it over and over again? 742 00:46:15,064 --> 00:46:18,776 And the answer is it's part of what arouses them sexually, 743 00:46:18,860 --> 00:46:21,946 and the sexual instinct itself is strong. 744 00:46:23,323 --> 00:46:25,241 The fact that Gein kept doing it 745 00:46:25,325 --> 00:46:29,162 shows how strong the compulsion was, 746 00:46:29,245 --> 00:46:34,918 how strong the urge was to do it over and over and over again. 747 00:46:35,335 --> 00:46:37,086 And if he didn't get caught, 748 00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:40,548 he would have continued to do it until he got arrested. 749 00:46:43,051 --> 00:46:45,970 [music continues] 750 00:46:46,846 --> 00:46:50,600 When I listen to the tapes, there's the researcher in me 751 00:46:50,683 --> 00:46:53,603 that's interested at an intellectual level 752 00:46:53,686 --> 00:46:59,025 about learning more from the actual words of a killer 753 00:46:59,108 --> 00:47:03,029 describing in detail why they did what they did. 754 00:47:03,112 --> 00:47:04,489 So there's a part of me 755 00:47:04,572 --> 00:47:06,407 that's just intellectually fascinated by that. 756 00:47:06,491 --> 00:47:08,493 But then there's another part of me that, you know, 757 00:47:08,576 --> 00:47:10,954 when I take off the researcher hat, 758 00:47:11,037 --> 00:47:13,456 there's an eeriness in hearing somebody 759 00:47:13,540 --> 00:47:16,084 who's seemingly so oblivious 760 00:47:16,167 --> 00:47:19,170 to the nature of what they have been doing. 761 00:47:19,712 --> 00:47:22,549 Ed Gein doesn't even remember some of the things 762 00:47:22,632 --> 00:47:25,635 or pretends or talks about how he doesn't remember things. 763 00:47:25,718 --> 00:47:29,055 So the banality of what he's talking about 764 00:47:29,138 --> 00:47:31,599 is also really striking. 765 00:47:37,397 --> 00:47:38,523 [music continues] 766 00:47:38,606 --> 00:47:40,900 The man is truly very ill. 767 00:47:40,984 --> 00:47:42,318 So as you're talking to him, 768 00:47:42,402 --> 00:47:44,571 it's becoming very, very evident that he is -- 769 00:47:44,654 --> 00:47:47,156 You're hearing him. One-word sentences. 770 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:49,909 They end like, "That's right. That's right." 771 00:47:49,993 --> 00:47:53,371 Like just trying to just -- like he's talking about the weather. 772 00:47:53,454 --> 00:47:55,164 [music continues] 773 00:48:02,130 --> 00:48:05,216 [Marcus] He sounds exactly as I expected him to sound, 774 00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:09,345 but he has an underlying urge that he does not understand. 775 00:48:09,429 --> 00:48:11,097 Like, there's something inside of him 776 00:48:11,180 --> 00:48:14,642 that is absolutely undying. 777 00:48:14,726 --> 00:48:16,477 It will not go away. 778 00:48:16,561 --> 00:48:19,188 And this is the only way that he can manifest that. 779 00:48:19,272 --> 00:48:20,690 That's the most calm person I've ever heard 780 00:48:20,773 --> 00:48:23,443 with a bunch of vulvas in a box, you know? 781 00:48:31,993 --> 00:48:33,703 What do you think Augusta would have thought of all this? 782 00:48:33,786 --> 00:48:35,705 Augusta would have disapproved. 783 00:48:35,788 --> 00:48:38,416 [laughter] 784 00:48:38,499 --> 00:48:40,543 [music continues] 785 00:48:40,627 --> 00:48:43,379 [Morrison] Ed Gein was a puzzle. 786 00:48:43,463 --> 00:48:47,216 Why did he come out the way he did? 787 00:48:47,717 --> 00:48:52,305 Why didn't his brother turn out the way Ed Gein did? 788 00:48:52,388 --> 00:48:54,390 They were raised in the same family... 789 00:48:56,017 --> 00:48:58,227 ...the same kind of relationship, 790 00:48:58,311 --> 00:49:02,231 the same mother and father, the same environment. 791 00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:09,697 Why did Ed Gein become such a horrible murderer? 792 00:49:11,532 --> 00:49:14,577 Someday, somebody who's smarter than I am 793 00:49:14,661 --> 00:49:17,080 is going to figure out these people 794 00:49:17,163 --> 00:49:19,290 before they kill everybody. 795 00:49:20,249 --> 00:49:21,668 [projector clicking] 796 00:49:21,751 --> 00:49:25,129 [music builds, ends] 797 00:49:28,174 --> 00:49:30,551 [mid-tempo orchestral music plays] 798 00:50:41,247 --> 00:50:44,041 [Music ends]