1 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,679 [Dan Rivers on TV] Documents obtained by ITV News show 2 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,359 that claims Mr. de Menezes fled from the police, 3 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:40,879 that he was dressed suspiciously, 4 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,399 and that he was behaving erratically, are false. 5 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,599 Police believed that a suspected terrorist bomber 6 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,279 lived in this block of flats behind me. 7 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,999 {\an8}At 9.30 am Jean Charles left to walk to the bus stop on a journey to work 8 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,440 {\an8}that would ultimately end in his death. 9 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,319 None of the police officers covertly watching outside 10 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,239 was sure he was the man they were after, 11 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,080 but they decided to follow him anyway. 12 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,799 At Stockwell train station, the commander of the operation, 13 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,799 Cressida Dick, ordered that de Menezes was to be stopped 14 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,879 from entering the tube network. Code Red was called. 15 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,759 The firearms officers had now been given permission to shoot at Jean Charles, 16 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,399 but as they raced after him into the tube station, 17 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,079 contrary to numerous police reports since issued, 18 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,319 the documents we've seen point to a catastrophic failure 19 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,559 of the police surveillance operation 20 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,159 which resulted in a violent and unnecessary killing. 21 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,519 Dan Rivers, ITV News, Stockwell. 22 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,520 [speaking in Portuguese] Now maybe we'll get justice. 23 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,000 Who the bloody hell leaked this? 24 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:11,919 We're looking into it. 25 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:14,239 [Ian Blair] Well, this is catastrophic. 26 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:15,599 These were honest mistakes. 27 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,119 The whole thing would have come out once the IPCC had delivered its findings. 28 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,159 I think what we're facing here is the perception that, 29 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,760 whatever the truth, the Met won't face up to its failings. 30 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:27,440 Nonsense. 31 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,840 What utter nonsense. 32 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,279 - Hey. - Did you watch the news last night? 33 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,359 Yeah. Yeah. 34 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,360 It's gone mad in here this morning. 35 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:25,560 They think it's someone from inside this office. 36 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:27,760 What do you think about it? 37 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:29,520 I don't really know. 38 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,119 [Jane] I tell you what I think. 39 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,320 Whoever's done this must have been paid a lot of money for it. 40 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,279 Why do you think they did it for money? 41 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:40,120 [Jane] Well, why else would you do it? 42 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,320 I think it's incredibly selfish what they've done. 43 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:47,840 Yeah, I suppose so. 44 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,479 I think we have to get our side of the story out there. 45 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,000 Yes, we can't let this define us. 46 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,519 [Fedorcio] My suggestion would be the News of the World. 47 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,039 You don't look convinced, Brian. 48 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,360 I'm just not sure now's the time to try and launch a defense. 49 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,839 It shouldn't be about trying to protect ourselves. 50 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:15,399 Sir, shooting an innocent man's a huge thing. 51 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,720 Well, it's a tragedy, of course it is. 52 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,999 But only two weeks ago, the whole world was mesmerized 53 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,919 by our responses to two bomb attacks 54 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,640 and by our ability to detect and prevent others. 55 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:30,880 Isn't that what we should be talking about? 56 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,880 [in Portuguese] Why did your police give no warning that you were coming? 57 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,639 We only heard about this last night. 58 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,359 We wanted to have a lawyer here with us 59 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:56,639 but it was not possible. 60 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,479 We didn't have the time to. 61 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,879 There are many things we want to understand. 62 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,799 {\an8}[in English] The purpose of this meeting is purely 63 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,000 {\an8}for us to express our condolences and to discuss funeral expenses. 64 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,800 Here... in your letter, 65 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:13,680 what does this mean? 66 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,680 Fifteen thousand pounds? Huh? 67 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,679 You want us to take this money 68 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,159 and we don't talk about Jean Charles anymore? 69 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:26,519 No, no, the letter was very clear-- 70 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:31,000 No, so we don't talk about how you shoot my brother seven times in the head? 71 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:33,680 No. 72 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:36,560 We won't exchange money for my brother's life. 73 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,599 The money is an ex-gratia payment. 74 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,400 It's to compensate you and your family for your loss. 75 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,720 It doesn't stop you from taking legal proceedings in the future. 76 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:50,240 [speaking Portuguese] Why did my son have to die? 77 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,480 [in Portuguese] Why did they shoot him in the head so many times? 78 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,800 He was an innocent boy. 79 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:01,679 [in English] I'm very sorry 80 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,719 but I cannot discuss the circumstances of your son's death. 81 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,400 [speaking Portuguese] Those responsible must be brought to justice. 82 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,559 I think they're trying to pressure us to agree to something in exchange for money. 83 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,199 If it's true, then it is humiliating. Humiliating that they think that of us. 84 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,800 I can tell them that we are going to fight. 85 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,119 We are going to fight for justice for my brother 86 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:27,920 until the last day of our lives. 87 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,319 [Wistrich in English] Yesterday, the family of Jean Charles de Menezes 88 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,479 and we, their lawyers 89 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,719 {\an8}became aware that virtually the entire body of information, 90 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,599 {\an8}either placed, or allowed to remain in the public domain since his killing 91 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,079 on July 22nd 2005, has been false. 92 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,399 The family asks that the truth surrounding his death be made public now 93 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,280 as a matter of urgency. 94 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,600 [HR director] Ms. Vandenberghe, could we have a quiet word, please? 95 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,079 Firstly, Commissioner, thank you for agreeing to this 96 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,040 at a very difficult time for you and the Met. 97 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:38,920 Let's get started. 98 00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:40,560 Okay. 99 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,679 {\an8}Well, I'd like to start by asking you about the moment you found out 100 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:49,080 {\an8}that the man who'd been shot at Stockwell Station wasn't a terrorist, 101 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:50,640 but an innocent man. 102 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:52,879 Yes, I remember it distinctly. 103 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,600 I was in my office at about 10:30 on the morning of July 23rd, 104 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,239 the day after Mr. de Menezes was shot, 105 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,160 and I was told that an innocent man had been killed. 106 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,920 My first thought was, "Houston, we have a problem." 107 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,399 So you didn't know straight away? 108 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:17,519 No. 109 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,359 The key component was that at that time, 110 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,879 and for the next 24 hours or so, 111 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,399 I, and everybody who advised me, 112 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,240 believed the person shot was a suicide bomber. 113 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,479 Either one of the four 114 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,240 or, even worse, someone else. 115 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,840 [people murmuring indistinctly] 116 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,959 Okay, he's saying that for 24 hours after the shooting, 117 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,359 he and all his senior team believed 118 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,439 that the person who was shot was a suicide bomber, right? 119 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,439 Even though on the afternoon of the shooting, 120 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,279 two of his closest advisors told me, 121 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,799 "We have shot a Brazilian tourist." 122 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,919 And by three o'clock that afternoon, we had his wallet, 123 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,199 for God's sake, with a driving permit in it, 124 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,839 photo ID with the name Jean Charles de Menezes. 125 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,399 Alan Brown read out the name Jean Charles de Menezes 126 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,199 in that meeting we had about community issues. 127 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:35,639 When was that? 128 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,560 I mean, what was that, about four o'clock? 129 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,879 The public are gonna believe he's lying or withholding vital information. 130 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,320 This is about credibility. 131 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,999 [sighs] I can't stay quiet, Alf. 132 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,120 Not anymore. 133 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,080 Be careful, Brian. 134 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:00,240 [knocking on door] 135 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,000 Ah, Brian. 136 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,040 Will this take long? 137 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,880 The first thing to say is that I am here as a friend. 138 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:12,720 Is that right? 139 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,120 - Can I sit down? - Of course. 140 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,039 Ian, you spoke at a press conference on July 22nd, the day of the shooting, 141 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,159 and you said that the shooting was directly linked to the ongoing 142 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,359 and expanding anti-terrorist operation. 143 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,600 The timing of this was 3:39 p.m. 144 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,159 What of it? 145 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,399 Well, by then, Moir Stewart and Caroline Murdoch, 146 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:42,959 speaking to me just out there, 147 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,039 had already told me that it was a Brazilian tourist who'd been shot, 148 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,039 clearly implying that we had killed the wrong guy. 149 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,119 You must have got the wrong time. 150 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,920 I haven't got my timings wrong. 151 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,480 Because I then told Alf Hitchcock that we had shot a Brazilian tourist. 152 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:01,600 You're wrong. 153 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,759 The point is, Ian, that up until that article was published yesterday, 154 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,079 I had managed to convince myself that Jean Charles being directly linked 155 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,999 to the ongoing anti-terrorist operation was arguably correct, 156 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,159 given that he had emerged from a building that was under observation. 157 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,799 That's exactly what I meant. 158 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:20,959 Yes, yes, yes. 159 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,479 But you've just said in your News of the World interview 160 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,759 that for 24 hours after the shooting, 161 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,919 you, and everyone that advised you, 162 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,640 believed that the man who was shot was a suicide bomber. 163 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,759 You see, I'm telling you this, Ian, because if your team told me on the 22nd 164 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,600 that Jean Charles was a Brazilian tourist, but they didn't tell you, 165 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:43,880 then, in my opinion, 166 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:45,640 they should have. 167 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,640 I'm wondering if you got the wrong day. 168 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,880 I'm wondering if you heard what you heard on the 23rd, rather than the 22nd. 169 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,959 Alan Brown asked Alf Hitchcock at a meeting on the afternoon of the 22nd, 170 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,559 to prepare a Community Impact Assessment on the basis that we'd shot the wrong guy. 171 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,559 The computer system shows a document being created 172 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:21,560 just after 5 p.m. on the 22nd. 173 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,519 I distinctly remember being told on the Saturday morning by Alan Brown 174 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,960 that we had shot the wrong man. 175 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,160 I just thought it was important that you knew... 176 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,320 what I knew. 177 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,920 I'm genuinely trying to help you here, Ian. 178 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,280 You must do what you have to do. 179 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,440 But we both know the penalty for not telling the truth. 180 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,840 They used dum-dum bullets to kill Jean Charles. 181 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,079 How can the police in the UK use bullets that not even the army is allowed to use? 182 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,039 The police needs to be open about what they're doing. 183 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,599 And if they act illegally, they should be punished. 184 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:58,760 [audience applauding] 185 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,280 The pain of the loss of our cousin 186 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,560 at the hands of the police was immense. 187 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,679 But the fact that the police lied about what happened, 188 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,880 and tried to cover up the truth made our pain unbearable. 189 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,359 For Ian Blair to say he did not know for 24 hours that Jean is innocent 190 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,119 is hard to believe. 191 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,039 We say Jean Charles was killed unlawfully. 192 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,080 The IPCC investigation should not have been delayed by Ian Blair. 193 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,279 Who knows what evidence was lost in this period? 194 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,760 [audience applauding] 195 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,159 I thought the family were so dignified, so full of humility. 196 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,920 Yeah, I was thinking that too. Watching them tonight, so inspiring. 197 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:23,840 [applauding] 198 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,279 Shameful! Their behaviour is shameful! 199 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,319 [Erionaldo] They must tell the truth! 200 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,480 No lies! 201 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,479 [radio presenter] When did they know? 202 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,239 That is the key. 203 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,319 Did the Met know only hours after Jean Charles was killed 204 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,239 that he was an innocent man 205 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,039 and yet still released misleading press statements 206 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,000 about what had happened? 207 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,439 Home Affairs correspondent Holly Salisbury, 208 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,280 what do you make of the situation? 209 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,919 [Holly] Well, the problem is we don't really believe 210 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,759 what the police are telling us anymore. 211 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:11,959 Trust has been eroded. 212 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,120 And the truth now seems to have become just a commodity. 213 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,439 Clearly, when we recognized that we had killed an innocent man, 214 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,839 we could have put the record straight about the issues around him 215 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,999 jumping over barriers, heavy coats and so on, 216 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,919 but, in a terrible way at that time, 217 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,360 the Met was transfixed on other things. 218 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,160 It was transfixed on, "Where are the bombers?" 219 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,000 That was our mistake. 220 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,559 [interviewer] The family of Jean Charles de Menezes want to know why, 221 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,719 for a number of days after his shooting, 222 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,519 you prevented an independent investigation into what had happened. 223 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,599 Because we were hunting for four suicide bombers. 224 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,840 They want to know what evidence was lost or damaged in that period. 225 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,880 Look, the answer to all of this is that, you know, 226 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,439 we will have to account for what happened. 227 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,440 We're not looking to blame anybody else. 228 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:12,360 [banging on door] 229 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:15,920 [officer] Police! 230 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,039 - [banging continues] - Police! 231 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,360 One second. 232 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,359 Lana Vandenberghe? 233 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:33,440 Yeah. 234 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,119 What... Hey, what-- 235 00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,680 - We have a warrant to search the premises. - What are you doing? 236 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:40,880 What are you looking for? 237 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,839 - Hey... - Lana Vandenberghe, I am arresting you 238 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,599 on suspicion of misconduct in a public office 239 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,479 and theft from your place of work 240 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,679 - on August 16th. - Theft? What have I stolen? 241 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,119 You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defense 242 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:58,240 if you do not mention when questioned something that you later rely on in court. 243 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,799 Did you provide ITN with documents and photographs from restricted files 244 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,560 to help them compile their news report? 245 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,440 No comment. 246 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,840 Do you know Neil Garrett? 247 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:19,400 No comment. 248 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,000 Did he pay you for this information? 249 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,640 Right, you do realize you could be facing a long prison sentence here? 250 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,440 When I was arrested, one of the offences I was accused of was theft. 251 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,560 - Theft of what? - The documents. 252 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,600 You do know I never signed the Official Secrets Act. 253 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,920 The theft refers to the physical documents. 254 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,600 The paper? 255 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,520 The paper and the ink, yeah. 256 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:57,640 Really? 257 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,599 This is the SO12 surveillance team log for the 22nd, 258 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,560 which we've finally been able to examine. 259 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:26,200 I wanna show you page eleven. 260 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,359 As you can see, two words have been added to the log. 261 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,759 In the text, NT is Nettle Tip, the suspect, 262 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,399 who was, in fact, Jean Charles de Menezes. 263 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,360 "A split second view of his face and I believe it was not NT." 264 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,799 So it looks as if somebody has added the word 'and' and the word 'not', 265 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,560 changing it from "I believe it was NT" to "And I believe it was not NT." 266 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,360 The whole meaning of the entry has been changed. 267 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,680 [Bixel] Nobody has admitted to making the amendments. 268 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,519 Well, there may be a simple explanation for all this, 269 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:00,719 but it's just another example 270 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,320 of why we should not have been excluded from the scene. 271 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,599 [Bixel] Commissioner, we have a note made by your Chief of Staff Caroline Murdoch, 272 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,999 of a meeting to discuss a press release 273 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,719 {\an8}which you attended at around 5:30 p.m, 274 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,519 {\an8}on Friday, 22nd July, the day of the shooting. 275 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,039 She notes that the person shot was referred to as 276 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,279 "not being one of the four", 277 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,679 meaning one of the four suspected terrorists 278 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,520 from the failed explosions the day before. 279 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,719 Assistant Commissioner Hayman then says, 280 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,320 "We need to present this that he is believed to be. 281 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,000 This is different to confirming that he is". 282 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,040 What... 283 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:45,480 What does that mean? 284 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,199 Well, I have no memory of it. 285 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,040 That's the first thing to say. 286 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,960 I really don't understand it. 287 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,720 No, I'm genuinely puzzled by it. 288 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,999 I repeatedly pressed Andy Hayman during the day for information 289 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,559 as to the connection between the dead man and the previous day's bombings, 290 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,120 and, long into the evening, he did not provide an answer. 291 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,159 But I can say that I would never preside over a meeting 292 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,960 where press statements were designed to deliberately mislead. 293 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,640 [Paddick] Are you kidding me? 294 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,520 [Bixel] I've read your notes. 295 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,519 Chief Superintendent Stewart accepts discussing with you, 296 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,639 on the afternoon of the 22nd, 297 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,039 a wallet being found with Brazilian identity documents in it, 298 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,480 but denies saying that a Brazilian tourist had been shot. 299 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,160 You mistaken about that phrase? 300 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,760 Absolutely not. 301 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,120 The Commissioner insists he did not know the dead man's identity 302 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,480 when he left work at around 9 o'clock that evening. 303 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:28,680 Then my point is a simple one. 304 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,000 Why not? 305 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,799 Why, on one of the most crucial days in police history, 306 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,479 does the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police leave his office 307 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,840 still not knowing who it was his officers had shot? 308 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,160 Or at the very least, 309 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,519 why did no one think to tell him 310 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,480 what was being openly discussed amongst senior management? 311 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,479 I recently had a meeting with Brian Paddick 312 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,719 where he brought all this up with me 313 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,760 and I told him that I thought he was mistaken with his timings. 314 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,439 Tell me, did Brian make notes of our meeting? 315 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,080 I mean, it was just a quick chat. 316 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,839 Yes, he did. He made them just after the meeting. 317 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,240 And he has given them to us. 318 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:14,840 I'd like to read them. 319 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,320 Please. 320 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,960 You gave the Commissioner my notes? 321 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,999 He said that you were very seriously mistaken 322 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,920 about your recollection of the meeting. 323 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,960 He says he fundamentally disagrees with your account. 324 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,199 Commissioner, I have to ask if you know of any reason 325 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,639 why Brian Paddick is saying what he is? 326 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,959 I do have concerns, 327 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,080 and a number of ideas, but... 328 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,360 it would be unfair to make those points here, 329 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,400 so I'll stop at that. 330 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,400 "A number of ideas"? 331 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,680 I honestly have no idea what he's talking about. 332 00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:08,919 [Patricia] Where did this story come from? 333 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,079 My instinct is that the leak to the Sunday Mirror 334 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,599 came from a police source. 335 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,760 Jean Charles rape a girl? 336 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,599 No, no way. 337 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:18,920 This is lies. 338 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,079 This is bullshit. 339 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,800 First they kill him, now they want to kill his name? 340 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,519 They say the alleged attack took place more than three years ago, 341 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,399 and the woman involved contacted them 342 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,439 and provided them with the name of a suspect, 343 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,080 and the name she gave them was Jean Charles de Menezes. 344 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,079 All they will say at this stage is inquiries are ongoing. 345 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,599 Of course. They spread these lies around, 346 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,159 this way they can make everybody forget what they have done to him. 347 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,520 [Vivian] It is the same when they say he have cocaine in his body. 348 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,999 I've never seen Jean take cocaine once. 349 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,399 Well, that was ridiculous. 350 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,039 It was such a tiny amount. 351 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,679 But they say it, so they can say he's a cocaine addict 352 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,960 or something like that, 353 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:58,840 so it's okay to shoot him. 354 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,000 With regard to the rape accusation, 355 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,080 they're going to ask you one thing. 356 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,799 They're going to want permission to take DNA samples 357 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,560 taken from Jean Charles' body after his death. 358 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,240 This is disgusting. 359 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:15,919 This is too much. 360 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,040 No. 361 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:18,719 I say go ahead. 362 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,519 [cousin speaking Portuguese] Seriously, Patricia! 363 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,719 We know without a shadow of a doubt that Jean is innocent. 364 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,840 [in English] He would never force himself on a woman. 365 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,720 They probably want us to say no. 366 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,840 Let them do the test. 367 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,559 The BBC has learned that the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, 368 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,479 Sir Ian Blair, is facing new questions about exactly when he knew 369 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,719 that an innocent man had been shot dead on the London Underground. 370 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,559 Jean Charles de Menezes was shot at Stockwell underground station last July 371 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,039 after he was mistaken for a terrorist. 372 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,359 Sir Ian Blair has always said 373 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:07,159 he didn't know an innocent man had been killed until the following day. 374 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,159 Now investigators are studying a claim 375 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,679 that someone in Sir Ian's private office believed, 376 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,239 as soon as six hours after the shooting, 377 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,160 that the wrong man had been shot. 378 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,479 Thank you. 379 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:33,560 Commissioner. 380 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:37,840 Martin. 381 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,159 I've asked Martin to be here. 382 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,080 I thought HR should be present. 383 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,320 I'll come straight to the point. 384 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,600 I believe that someone is leaking information to the press. 385 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,920 Information that calls into question the integrity of the Met and me personally. 386 00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:03,440 I believe you are the source, Brian. 387 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,120 Well, I'm not. 388 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,320 I don't know who it was, but it wasn't me. 389 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,360 Yes, we disagree about what happened at certain moments. 390 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,720 And I do and have spoken to journalists from time to time, 391 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,400 but I have absolutely not briefed against you or the Met 392 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:28,920 about any of this. 393 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,760 I'm sorry but I don't believe you. 394 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,960 And in any event, I've lost confidence in you. 395 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,559 I can't have you at management board meetings, 396 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,159 so I'm moving you from Territorial Policing 397 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,120 to Management of Police Information with immediate effect. 398 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,719 Those wishing to turn this tragedy into something it isn't, 399 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,800 are, I'm afraid, going to be very disappointed. 400 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,240 [in Portuguese] He did not rape that woman. 401 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,160 I knew it. 402 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,520 {\an8}[crowd chanting] Justice! Justice! Justice! 403 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,439 {\an8}Our family believe it is disgraceful 404 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,239 {\an8}that over a year has passed since Jean was shot by those police thugs 405 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,639 and there has still not been a proper public investigation 406 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,480 into his assassination. 407 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,599 {\an8}[in English] The IPCC and the CPS are acting like gang members, 408 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,920 trying to cover up the actions of their bosses, the police. 409 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,520 It's clear they want to hide the truth from everybody. 410 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,679 [in Portuguese] We know the justice system is flawed 411 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,079 and we are asking the British government 412 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,680 to open a public inquiry into Jean's murder. 413 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,520 Justice! Justice! 414 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,759 [in English] Patricia, I'd like you to meet somebody. 415 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,399 This is Lana Vandenberghe. She's the woman from the IPCC who-- 416 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,680 I know who she is. 417 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:54,720 You're the whistleblower. 418 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,120 Thank you for telling the truth. 419 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,760 Thank you, thank you. 420 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,160 - Hi. - Hi. 421 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,959 I was so nervous to meet you. 422 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,040 What you did was very brave. 423 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,639 Do you know what's going to happen to you? 424 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,240 You know, I only just found out that I'm not going to face criminal charges. 425 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,519 I'm glad they didn't put you in prison just for telling the truth. 426 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:25,999 Well, the ones that should be in prison 427 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,879 are the ones that lie about why they kill an innocent man. 428 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,519 So, what will the family do next? 429 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,719 [Vivian] Keep fighting. 430 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,639 But with no police facing charges, 431 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,399 our only hope is the inquest into Jean's death. 432 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,880 This is our best chance for justice. 433 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,799 This is not the police investigating the police. 434 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,640 This time there will be a jury. 435 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,879 Brian, thank you so much for coming. 436 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,719 {\an8}- Of course. - Let me introduce you to a few people. 437 00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:59,800 {\an8}Yes, please. 438 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,160 - George, it's Brian. - Hi, George. Brian Paddick. 439 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,120 I've heard you're going to resign. 440 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,800 It's a good idea. 441 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,679 - I met you in... - I work in the mayor's office. 442 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,759 - I remember you. Brian. - Yeah, hello. 443 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:20,920 Hi. 444 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,680 So, why is it a good idea I should resign? 445 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,519 Well, someone from the Commissioner's office 446 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,759 phoned our office on the afternoon of the day Jean Charles was shot 447 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,000 to say they'd shot the wrong man. 448 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,480 - Friday, 22nd? - Yeah. 449 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,080 Thought you should know. 450 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,479 Yes. Yes. He's just told me he's certain of the date. 451 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,559 He couldn't be sure who made the call though. 452 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,840 Interesting. 453 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,879 Perhaps we should have seized the records of all telephone calls made 454 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,880 from the Commissioner's office on the Friday. 455 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,440 Are you telling me you didn't? 456 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,359 [news reporters] Three years after the shooting by police officers 457 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,959 of an innocent young man, Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes... 458 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,879 {\an8}...the inquest into what happened finally gets underway today. 459 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,759 {\an8}It's in the unlikely setting of the Oval cricket ground 460 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,320 as it was decided Southwark Coroners Court was too small. 461 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,039 Over the next seven weeks... 462 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,959 Over the next seven weeks, a jury will be asked to decide 463 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,599 how Jean Charles came to be shot dead 464 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,480 during a police surveillance operation. 465 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,280 And whether what happened that day amounted to an unlawful killing. 466 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,039 {\an8}Could you tell the jury, 467 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,119 {\an8}after all the briefings that you'd had, 468 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:51,599 {\an8}what it felt like... 469 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,799 {\an8}as you ran along the platform that morning 470 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,160 {\an8}and got as far as the next set of open doors? 471 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:58,959 [Charlie 12] I wasn't running. 472 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,600 It was a controlled, purposeful walk. 473 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,560 And I remember thinking we were gonna be coming up against totally unknown threat, 474 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,639 the highest possible threat that certainly I could ever imagine. 475 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,320 Okay, now tell us what happened as you entered the carriage. 476 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,880 Sir, can I just pause for a moment? 477 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,560 I know obviously where we're leading to. [clears throat] 478 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:21,920 I'm a family man myself, 479 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,119 and to lose a son or any member of your family in this situation, 480 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:28,680 I just couldn't imagine. 481 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:30,959 So, I offer my sincere condolences. 482 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,240 I really, really respectfully do that. 483 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,000 Thank you very much. 484 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,919 What I suggest was in your mind was, 485 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,999 once you knew he was identified 486 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,239 as a potential mass killer from the day before, 487 00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:55,319 that was it. 488 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,880 {\an8}You were down the escalators, in the carriage, and he's dead. 489 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,640 This couldn't be further from the truth. 490 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,480 Let me take you now through your statement, 491 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,520 made the following day. 492 00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:13,639 You say as you entered the tube carriage, 493 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,919 "The male immediately looked in my direction and stood up. 494 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,239 I was aware of the male wearing a bulky denim jacket". 495 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,439 That's not quite the right order of things. 496 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,439 The jacket actually appeared bulky to me whilst he was sitting down, 497 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,759 not when he was standing up. 498 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,039 "The male immediately looked in my direction and stood up". 499 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,079 So he's standing up, or is he sitting down? 500 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,919 As I've just said, the bulkiness of the jacket 501 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,919 was what I perceived when he was sitting down. 502 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,799 You see, you're having to say that because you now recognize, don't you, 503 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,719 that he wasn't wearing a bulky jacket 504 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:45,559 that might be consistent with hiding an explosive. 505 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,159 The snapshot I had was him sitting down and that it was a bulky jacket. 506 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,519 But you don't make any distinction between standing and sitting 507 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,680 and the bulkiness of the jacket in your statement. 508 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,199 You only do so now, when the inconsistency is pointed out. 509 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,959 I can only say it's a mistake in my statement writing, 510 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,680 as I have just explained to you. 511 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,120 And did you discuss this with your fellow officer, C2? 512 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,880 I can't recall, sir. 513 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,999 This incident, it happened over a very short space of time, 514 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,719 and the initial impression I had was that the jacket appeared bulky. 515 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:42,759 And that's just on the basis of a fraction of a second glimpse. 516 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:47,000 What did he do after he'd been pointed to by the surveillance officer? 517 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,320 Well, he turned and looked at us, 518 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,920 he stood up very quickly, 519 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,400 and he advanced towards us with his hands down at his side. 520 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:01,240 But, sir... 521 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,760 can I take the opportunity to acknowledge the family. 522 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,320 Because, well... 523 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,480 I'm very aware about... 524 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,280 what I'm about to describe. 525 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,200 And I find it very distressing. 526 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,520 But I completely respect and understand how difficult it is for them. 527 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,200 [Hilliard] Thank you very much. 528 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,479 Now back to your statement. 529 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,759 "I shouted 'Armed Police' and brought my weapon to bear on him. 530 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,320 He continued to close me down." 531 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,239 [Charlie 12] That was the perception that I had, 532 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,319 that he wanted to get as close to me 533 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:41,920 as possible before detonation. 534 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,879 So a lot of this depends on whether you did shout "Armed Police," 535 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,400 and whether you did bring your weapon up to bear on him, 536 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,959 and whether he effectively closed you down and you thought he was going to detonate? 537 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,679 That is what happened, sir, yes. 538 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,520 [Mansfield] I'm going to suggest to you in the clearest terms, it didn't. 539 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,480 I would like you to think carefully. 540 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,560 Could this be subject to perceptual distortion 541 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,960 and you just got it all wrong? 542 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,120 No, sir. 543 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,960 Now, why did you shout "Armed Police"? 544 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,359 Because if you thought he was a suicide bomber, 545 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,000 the one thing you don't do is warn the person because they might detonate. 546 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,359 I think I just reverted back to my training. 547 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,320 It was just an instant reaction for me to challenge. 548 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,479 [Mansfield] Before you came into the witness box, 549 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,559 did you either listen to or read the evidence 550 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,680 your fellow officer C12 gave yesterday? 551 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,480 Yes, I did, sir. 552 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,680 Have you been influenced by what he said, in what you have said today? 553 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,479 Absolutely not. No, sir. 554 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,000 - What, there's no possibility of that? - No, sir. 555 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,679 Not even to the adoption by you of phrases he used in evidence 556 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,640 that do not appear in your statement? 557 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:11,080 No, sir. 558 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,119 You went straight down the escalator that morning 559 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,520 with one object in mind, didn't you? 560 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,200 No, sir. 561 00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:23,839 That object was, I suggest, 562 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,319 to kill the man who you thought, 563 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,159 because of the way you interpreted what you'd been told, 564 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,839 was a suicide bomber who was about to blow up the train. 565 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,040 No, sir. 566 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,040 When I first saw him... 567 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,640 I described to you what I saw with his jacket, 568 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,960 he turned and looked at us. 569 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,240 He stood up quickly. 570 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,280 He then advanced towards us. 571 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,800 I believed at that time that he was a threat. 572 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,280 I believed that he was about to blow up the train. 573 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,760 I thought I was gonna die. 574 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,119 I don't want to be rude to you or offensive, 575 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,239 but you do seem to be in automatic mode, as it were, 576 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:14,320 just repeating various things. 577 00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,040 Absolutely not. No, sir. 578 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:27,120 So, the surveillance officer, Ivor, is by the partition... 579 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,240 He doesn't hear you shout "Armed Police." 580 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:32,480 Another surveillance officer, Geoff, 581 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,840 he doesn't hear you say "Armed Police." 582 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,879 Ken, another surveillance officer, 583 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,399 he doesn't describe this scenario of "Armed Police," 584 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,079 a raised gun and a man continuing to go forward. 585 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,359 And, of course, there are a number of civilians 586 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,159 in the carriage, 17 in total. 587 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,199 No civilian, who is in a position to see what happened, 588 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,040 says they heard or saw the scenario you describe. 589 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,559 I'm going to suggest, the truth of the situation was you were pumped up 590 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,239 and just wanted to dispatch this man altogether, irrespective. 591 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:08,359 - He's here. - Absolutely not. No, sir. 592 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,880 And that what you failed to do, dismally, was after you entered the tube station, 593 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,000 you had an obligation to make an independent assessment, 594 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,879 even if you thought the man was a suicide bomber. 595 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,440 I did make that assessment... 596 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,480 And it is my responsibility, and I accept that. 597 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,399 I killed an innocent man 598 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,760 and I've gotta live with that for the rest of my life. 599 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,680 Do you think, one final time, that you could be wrong, 600 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,240 and that you've made a serious mistake of assessment? 601 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,720 No, I don't. 602 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,719 What happened on that day 603 00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:24,319 under your authority and responsibility 604 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,880 was a chain of events that spiralled out of your control so disastrously, 605 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:33,039 {\an8}and I'm gonna use the colloquial phrase, 606 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,919 {\an8}so that you may understand, that essentially from the beginning, 607 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,039 you were sprinting to catch up 608 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,880 with something that had not been properly organized that morning. 609 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,479 Now, do you follow that? 610 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,640 I follow it. 611 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:47,480 I don't accept it. 612 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,000 Please understand... 613 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:52,360 Everybody is human. 614 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:53,640 We all make mistakes. 615 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,240 It's very pleasant when people say, "I have made a mistake." 616 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,640 You are really not prepared to say that any mistake was made here, are you? 617 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,480 No. 618 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,839 What I am trying to portray, sir, is, 619 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,080 on any operation, 620 00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:28,000 some things that in an ideal world would happen, 621 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:29,880 don't happen. 622 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,520 You don't think the Met did anything wrong? 623 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,599 If you ask me whether anybody did anything wrong or unreasonable 624 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,120 on the operation... 625 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:43,600 I don't think they did. 626 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,439 [Mansfield] If the Met did nothing wrong, 627 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,720 then what did go wrong on the 22nd of July? 628 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,440 Well, sir, you've started then, 629 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,920 I would start with two weeks before that. 630 00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:00,600 I think one thing that clearly went wrong was that we, as a nation, 631 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,039 did not manage to prevent those attacks on the 7th of July, 632 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,480 or indeed Hussain Osman's and others' attempts on the 21st. 633 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,640 Mr. de Menezes was extraordinarily unfortunate 634 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,240 to live in the same block as Hussain Osman had lived in, 635 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,680 and he was desperately unfortunate to look very like Hussain Osman. 636 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,999 There was the fact that the first surveillance officer was indisposed 637 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,119 and only able to get a relatively short glance at him. 638 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,280 Some of the things he did in all innocence, the way he behaved, 639 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,000 the way he got off the bus and back on the bus, 640 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,839 the fact that three of the bombers from the day before 641 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,600 had entered Stockwell station, 642 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,799 all of this contributed to our assessment... 643 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,120 My assessment of him as a bomber, 644 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,240 and someone who might be intent on causing an explosion today. 645 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,880 So he was desperately unfortunate 646 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,880 to look very like Hussain Osman? 647 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:05,800 Yes. 648 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,200 But he didn't, did he? 649 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,479 I know that is what 650 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,719 the Metropolitan Police would have us to believe. 651 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:20,119 Now, I accept that this has nothing to do with you, Commander Dick, 652 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,720 or should I say now, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dick, 653 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,080 but if you and the jury could turn your attention to the screen. 654 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,039 You will see a composite picture created by the Metropolitan Police 655 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,200 for the recent Health and Safety proceedings. 656 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,839 It shows half of each man's face, Jean Charles on the right, 657 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,480 and is intended to show how similar they are. 658 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,000 But it has been manipulated. 659 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,880 Jean Charles' face has been elongated to make the noses fit, 660 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,959 {\an8}and the picture has been brightened 661 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,279 {\an8}so that it washes out some clear differences. 662 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,399 This shows us, I suggest, 663 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,520 how desperate the Metropolitan Police are 664 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,960 to persuade us that Hussain Osman 665 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,480 and Jean Charles de Menezes look alike. 666 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,399 Now, if I told you that the evidence before this jury 667 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,920 is that no surveillance officer says 668 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,960 there was a positive identification 669 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,919 of the suspect as Nettle Tip, 670 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,200 that their identification never went beyond "possible," 671 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,920 does that come as a shock? 672 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,199 I know what I was being told, and I know what that made me think. 673 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,479 And were you aware that there are photographs available 674 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,960 that could have been given to the surveillance team, 675 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,399 photographs that were found in Hussain Osman's rucksack 676 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:48,519 the day before? 677 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,279 Clear photographs, rather than the fuzzy photocopies 678 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,160 they were issued with that morning? 679 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,839 I was not aware of that, sir, until maybe three weeks ago 680 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,800 when I was shown some correspondence. 681 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,399 These are the wedding photographs? 682 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,439 They're on the screen now. 683 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,199 {\an8}So, up until this inquest, 684 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,559 {\an8}nobody had told you about these photographs, 685 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,159 {\an8}which could have been distributed to the surveillance team 686 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,919 to give them a much better chance 687 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,519 of eliminating as a suspect the man they were following, 688 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,039 Jean Charles de Menezes? 689 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,120 No, sir. 690 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,280 Where were the firearms officers that morning, DAC Dick? 691 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,999 You were misled, weren't you? 692 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,800 They were not in a position to deal with the suspect when he got off the bus, 693 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,080 when you thought they were. 694 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,480 Do you accept even now, that you were misled? 695 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,480 No, sir, I don't. 696 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,879 I accept that, with the benefit of hindsight, 697 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,279 it is clear that they did not arrive, 698 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,279 we have seen that on the video at the tube station, 699 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,360 until a minute behind him. 700 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,480 I don't accept that I was misled. 701 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,240 [Mansfield] Then, what has gone wrong here? 702 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,239 I think you could turn that on its head and say they did incredibly well 703 00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:07,119 to get there in that time, 704 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,400 given what was going on. 705 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,279 Of course, Mr. de Menezes wouldn't have been on the bus 706 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:18,039 if you hadn't taken the decision not to suspend the bus services 707 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,959 near Scotia Road that morning. 708 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,640 Do you now accept that that was a mistake? 709 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,079 I don't, sir, no. 710 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,479 My thinking was that 711 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,360 suspending the buses may have alerted the terrorists to our operation. 712 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,120 Right. Erm... 713 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,919 DAC Dick, I come back to that question 714 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,160 I asked you initially. 715 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,400 What do you think went wrong? 716 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:45,719 I mean, apart from 717 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:48,439 the surveillance officer needing to relieve himself, 718 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,519 your answer had everything to do with Jean Charles de Menezes 719 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,720 and absolutely nothing to do with the police. 720 00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:58,079 It was all his fault. 721 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,799 I certainly did not intend that. 722 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,759 But the Met even had a pathologist tell us 723 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,000 how minute traces of cocaine in his blood 724 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,760 may have made Jean Charles anxious 725 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,359 and paranoid in the carriage that morning. 726 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:14,719 His fault. 727 00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:18,199 Is there a problem within the Metropolitan Police hierarchy 728 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,799 about admitting when things go wrong? 729 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:21,999 No. 730 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,000 Is there within you a problem 731 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,360 about admitting when things go wrong? 732 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,519 I regard myself as somebody who will always take full responsibility 733 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:36,960 for what I have done. 734 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,400 I regret tremendously that Mr. de Menezes died, 735 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,640 but I don't look back and think I made irrational decisions, 736 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,160 unreasonable decisions, 737 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,640 and nor do I think anybody else did. 738 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,119 Members of the jury, 739 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,760 before you consider your verdict, 740 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,359 I have to tell you that the conclusion I have come to 741 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,199 is that the evidence in this case, taken at its highest, 742 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:17,080 would not justify my leaving verdicts of unlawful killing to you. 743 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,519 This is so in respect of Charlie 12 and Charlie 2, 744 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,800 concerning their direct involvement in the shooting of Mr. de Menezes. 745 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,240 This is also in respect of any of the particular senior officers 746 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,760 in relation to their management and conduct of the operation. 747 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,920 - [audience members clamouring] - A verdict of unlawful killing... 748 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,319 could have only been left to you if you could be sure 749 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,560 that a specific officer had committed a very serious crime 750 00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:55,960 such as murder or manslaughter. 751 00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:01,200 And I don't believe that the evidence we have heard passes that threshold. 752 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:11,399 {\an8}There was uproar in court yesterday when the coroner, Sir Michael Wright, 753 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,760 {\an8}told the jury they could not return a verdict of unlawful killing, 754 00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,439 {\an8}leaving them with just two possible verdicts, 755 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,639 {\an8}Lawful Killing or an Open verdict, 756 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,719 which would suggest the jury were not satisfied 757 00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:29,160 that the force used by the police was justified. 758 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,999 As Sir Michael continued his summing up to the jury today, 759 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,479 proceedings were interrupted by a silent protest 760 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,039 from Mr. de Menezes' family. 761 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:44,239 {\an8}They say he has presided over a complete whitewash, 762 00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:49,039 but he says he will ask the jury a series of questions after the verdict 763 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,800 to help explain how Mr. de Menezes died. 764 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,280 Forewoman of the jury, 765 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,040 I am now going to ask you for your verdict. 766 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:18,600 Open verdict. 767 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,200 That is unanimous or a majority verdict? 768 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,720 [jury foreman] A majority, by eight to two. 769 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,799 [Sir Wright] We now move on to the series of questions I asked you to decide upon. 770 00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,279 Could you indicate please if your decisions are unanimous 771 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:38,680 or by majority. 772 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,240 Did the firearms officer Charlie 12 773 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,440 shout the words "Armed Police" 774 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,320 at Mr. de Menezes before he fired? 775 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,320 No. And that is unanimous. 776 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,720 [Sir Wright] Did Mr. de Menezes move towards officer C12 777 00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,560 before he was grabbed in a bear hug by the surveillance officer Ivor? 778 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,800 [jury foreman] No. Unanimous. 779 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,759 [Sir Wright] Do you consider that any of the following factors 780 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,719 caused or contributed to the death of Mr. de Menezes: 781 00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:14,759 A failure to obtain and provide better photographic images of the suspect 782 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,840 Hussain Osman for the surveillance team? 783 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,000 Yes. Unanimous. 784 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:25,560 {\an8}[Sir Wright] A failure by the police to ensure that Mr. de Menezes was stopped 785 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,680 {\an8}before he reached public transport? 786 00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:30,800 [jury foreman] Yes, sir. Unanimous. 787 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,519 [Sir Wright] That the views of the surveillance officers 788 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,199 regarding identification were not accurately communicated 789 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,199 to the command team and the firearms officers? 790 00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,080 Yes. Unanimous. 791 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:49,359 [Sir Wright] Did the suicide attacks and attempted attacks of July 2005 792 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,839 place pressure upon the Metropolitan Police 793 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,959 in responding to the threat? 794 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,360 Cannot decide, sir. 795 00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,279 Did the behaviour of Mr. de Menezes, though entirely innocent, play a role 796 00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,200 by increasing the suspicions of some officers? 797 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,519 No. Majority eight to two. 798 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,679 That concludes your verdict. Thank you. 799 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,040 [jury foreman] Thank you. 800 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:20,920 [inaudible] 801 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,639 [reporter] Scotland Yard Commissioner Sir Ian Blair today 802 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:18,279 apologized to the family, 803 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,839 but also said the shooting had to be put into context. 804 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,839 So we have to consider what would have happened if these officers had not shot 805 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,759 and that man had been a suicide bomber and got on the tube, and the doors closed, 806 00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:31,879 with the officers having taken the wrong decision. 807 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,759 That would have been absolutely dreadful. 808 00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,999 The most important thing I can do is to, you know, offer our regrets, 809 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,839 but then we have to move on in the biggest operation 810 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,680 the Metropolitan Police has ever undertaken.