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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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Giant.

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Giant!

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I'm just gonna wear
the same thing
I was wearing before,

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but it's still inside out.
I wear it inside out.

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This is how you
keep the men away at the mics.

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You just wear lots of layers.

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With the law of attraction
and stuff,

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you have to articulate things
for them to come
into existence.

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Bye dog,
I love you.

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Be a good boy, please.

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What else do I need?
I'll bring that joint.

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Dear Lord.
Hm.

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When I said I wanted to
work with Louis
or Dave Chappelle,

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I should've been
more specific.

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Bye, everybody.

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Bye!

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As opposed to, like,
how it all panned out.

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See ya.

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Not only do they talk about

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you being
the undisputed king of comedy

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and people love this show,
there are these... I mean,
yours is deeper and broader.

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Comparisons to Lenny Bruce,
comparisons to Bob Dylan,

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comparisons to being
a sort of philosopher king.

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Hmm, Jesus.

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Do you wanna
not talk about that?
Because...

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It should be...

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...where does it come from,

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and how do you see
what you are?

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I don't know,
I mean, I'm just a comedian.

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How do women
still go out with guys,
when you consider the fact

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that there is
no greater threat to women
than men?

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We're the number one
threat to women.

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Globally and historically,
we're the number one
cause of injury,

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and mayhem to women.

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We're the worst thing
that ever happens to them.

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Like, I think about flashers
and how well they dressed,
though.

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You know, like,
in my day,

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you dressed up
to go on an airplane,

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and you dressed up
to show a woman your dick,
and I appreciated that.

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Because when Louis C.K.
tried to show me his dick,

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he was just wearing
a shitty black t-shirt
and jeans

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and it's like,
listen you schlub,

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you can't do a little outfit
for me if you're gonna...?

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You know?

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My own personal feeling
about him,

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he's a top 10th
of 1%
insightful person.

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He's able to make that funny,

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and almost nobody else
can do that,

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and that's kind of
the definition of genius,
right?

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So you're top 10th
of 1% ability
at something,

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that no one else can do.

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If you can do something
that no one else can do,

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that almost alone makes you
a kind of a genius,
even if it's something stupid.

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Children who
have nut allergies
need to be protected.

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Of course!

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We have to segregate
their food from nuts.

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Have their medication
available at all times

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and anybody who manufactures
or serves food

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needs to be aware of
deadly nut allergies.

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Of course.

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But maybe...

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...maybe if touching a nut
kills you,

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you're supposed to die.

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I thought of him as, like,

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a misanthrope
who loved people.

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He saw the very, very worst,

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like, least attractive
parts of people,
of humanity,

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of the human condition,
and then found a way

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to be sympathetic
to those parts of us.

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There's one kid
in my daughter's class
who I hate so much,

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and it's really fucked up
'cause I'm 44
and I hate a six year old.

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And his comedy was so good
at what it really meant

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to open out your nasty,
broken, dark heart

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in front of
thousands of people,

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hundreds of people,
every night.

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I don't stop eating
when I'm full.

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The meal is not over
when I'm full.

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The meal is over
when I hate myself,
that's when I...

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...that's when I stop.

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He seemed to be
brutally honest.

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Brutally honest about himself,

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and about his relationship
with his kids,

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in a way that
we weren't used to seeing
from comedians.

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I like Mama's better,

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because she makes good food.

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And I love her more,
so I like being there more.

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-Alright,
go and get on your PJs.
-Bye, Daddy.

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OK, baby.

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The heart of Louis' act was,

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I'm fucked up,

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and in my fuck uppedness,

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in my navigating through
the world, I'm trying to
do the right thing.

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I don't always succeed,
but I'm trying to
be a good guy.

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You know what's really sad
about men?

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That we can't have
a beautiful thought
about a woman,

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that isn't followed by
a disgusting thought
about that same woman.

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We're not capable of it.

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That's how our brains work.

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She's an angel,

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and I want her to drown
in my cum.

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He would talk about
how men are these creatures,

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that have
these irrepressible impulses,

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that are clearly unpleasant
for women to deal with.

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Oh yeah, oh,
what the fuck
is wrong with me?

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Goddammit.

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And just being self-aware
in a way that, you know,

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to female fans such as myself,
was very endearing.

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He created a show
that was really, like,

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the beating center
of the zeitgeist.

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When Louis
garners critical acclaim,

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that is really what
catapulted
Louis C.K.,

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from just a funny guy,

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to a guy who got
the full genius treatment
from our culture.

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Listen, I'm, I'm...

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What? No.
No, no, no, no!

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-Just...
-No!

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Come on.

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He did a lot of material
that was borderline.

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God, you can't even rape well!

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But he did it
from this persona of,

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I understand that
these things are wrong.

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Wait, does it offend you
when I say that word?

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What word, hello?

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No, faggot.

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Yeah, does it bother you
when he says the word faggot?

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No, it bothers me
when you say it,
'cause you mean it.

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He became this, like,

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unlikely moral conscience
of the comedy world.

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A lot of Louis' fans felt like
we know a lot about Louis.

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We know, like,
what makes his brain tick.

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We know the kinds of things
he thinks about.

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We know what pisses him off.

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For, as disgusting
as he painted himself to
be...

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...we felt like
we understood his heart.

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For those of you tuning in
to see my interview

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with Louis C.K. tonight,
I have some bad news.

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Then I have
some really bad news.

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Breaking tonight,
five women are accusing
comedian, Louis C.K.,

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of sexual misconduct
in a bombshell report
from The New York Times.

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The women say
that the comedian would make

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sexually inappropriate
comments.

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Some say he also masturbated
in front of them.

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Three more women
report similar incidents,

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one in the 1990s,
one in 2003, and one in 2005.

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Some of the women
say they feared

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career repercussions
if they spoke out.

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The news this morning
about the comedian,
Louis C.K.,

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who has come out to say that
the accusations against him
are in fact true.

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FX cutting all ties.

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HBO and Netflix
also dropping him
from upcoming projects.

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The release of his new film,
I Love You Daddy,
abruptly canceled.

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He was said to appear on

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The Late Show
with Stephen Colbert,
but was replaced.

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When reached for comment,
Jesus said,

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"Bla la la la la.
I don't wanna hear about it,
I was a big fan. Bla la la."

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I need to,
while you're here,

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ask you for your comment
on something quickly.

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Your friend and colleague,
Louis C.K.,
what was the impact on you

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when you heard
not only the accusations,
but his admission?

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Um...

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...stunned, I think.
You know, um...

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...you give your friends
the benefit of the doubt.

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I tried to think of it
in terms of,
you know,

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I've had friends
who have compulsions

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and who have done things,
gambling, or drinking,
or drugs,

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and we've lost some of them.
Some of them have died.

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And you always find yourself
back to a moment of,
did I miss something?

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Could I have done more
on the thing?

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And in this situation,
I think we all could've.

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It's a real mind fuck,
you know,

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because I... I love Louis,
but Louis did these things.

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Both of those statements
are true, so I just
keep asking myself,

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"Can you love someone
who did bad things?"

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"Can you still love them?"

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I can mull that over later,
certainly,
because the only people

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that matter right now
are the victims.

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They are victims
and they're victims
because of something he did.

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The Louis thing came out
at the worst possible time,

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which is right after the
Harvey Weinstein thing
and Bill Cosby.

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I mean,
this was a real wake-up call
to a lot of America

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about how awful
men in power could be.

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So he got swept into that.

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I think it's gross.

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What he did,
I think was just gross.

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It was gross
if he did it to a man.

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It takes on more ominous tones
when he's doing it to women.

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-Completely agree.
-Yeah.

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I mean, I'm not...
I don't think he's anything--

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-But it's not a crime, right?
-No, no, I don't think so.

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No,
I think it's just sad.

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It's nothing like Cosby,
it's just pathetic.

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Somebody would walk in
and I would say--
Somebody well known,

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I'm like,
"What do you
think about Louis?"

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And they would say,
"What do you
think about Louis?"

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He didn't assault anybody,
he asked for permission.

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I don't know, I still think
he should be allowed to
perform at the Cellar.

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Because what did he do wrong?
Ask for consent?

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For non-contact in--
Like, what are you
talking about?

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When he came out
and he said,
"I did this."

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He said, "I did these things,
these women are all
telling the truth."

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I just remember thinking,
well, that's the sign
of somebody who--

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Well we can work with that,
you know what I mean?

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00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:05,623
Like, that's--
You know,
what the hell else

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are you supposed to do?

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00:11:06,999 --> 00:11:10,169
Every comedian has their
skeletons,

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every comedian has their shit
in their closet that
they don't want to come out,

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I'm sure, you know?

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00:11:15,466 --> 00:11:17,343
And not just comedians,
everybody.

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00:11:19,220 --> 00:11:20,346
But I felt like...

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00:11:22,264 --> 00:11:24,350
...there's just a lot of
hypocrisy around it,

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because... so many of us...

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spend our careers
trying to sort of
hold the light up and be like,

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"Hey,
I'm telling the truth here.

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00:11:35,277 --> 00:11:37,488
"I'm the truth teller."
You know?

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00:11:40,241 --> 00:11:42,743
But when it comes to
telling the truth about
one of our own...

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...suddenly, we shut up.

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00:11:57,133 --> 00:11:58,426
Zero to 40 was fun.

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You were born, bleurgh,
you don't even know
where you are.

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00:12:00,886 --> 00:12:02,096
Yeah,
you had your first kiss.

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00:12:02,179 --> 00:12:03,514
Not right away,
I'm just saying,

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00:12:03,597 --> 00:12:05,266
you had your first kiss
during those years.

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00:12:05,349 --> 00:12:07,143
You had some masturbation,
you had some sex,

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00:12:07,226 --> 00:12:09,019
you had some drinking,
you had some driving.

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Nothing good happens
between 40 and 80.

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00:12:11,564 --> 00:12:14,066
I understand
what's going to happen.

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First, I'm gonna get
that cougar chest,
with the freckles,

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00:12:18,988 --> 00:12:20,531
and then I'm gonna die.

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That's what's gonna happen.

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00:12:24,577 --> 00:12:26,579
When I have
younger people ask me,

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00:12:26,662 --> 00:12:27,913
"How did you get
where you are?"

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00:12:27,997 --> 00:12:30,499
And I tell them
how long it took,
they're like,

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"Oh, I don't want that.

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00:12:32,668 --> 00:12:34,336
"Like, I wanna, you know--

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00:12:34,420 --> 00:12:36,839
"What do you mean you were 35
before you got your first job?

237
00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:38,674
"When did you start?"
"When I was 21."

238
00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:40,426
"Yeah, no, I can't do that."

239
00:12:41,927 --> 00:12:46,348
I was 21 or 22
out of college
in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

240
00:12:47,016 --> 00:12:49,560
I met this guy,
Eugene Mirman,
and he said,

241
00:12:49,643 --> 00:12:52,188
"I run this open mic,
I think you're funny,
do you wanna do it?"

242
00:12:52,271 --> 00:12:55,566
And he didn't know me
from anything, he just thought
I was a funny person.

243
00:12:56,484 --> 00:13:00,654
And I just told a story
that was very raw
and vulnerable for me,

244
00:13:00,738 --> 00:13:02,782
about when
I lost my virginity.

245
00:13:03,741 --> 00:13:07,828
But it broke the seal of,
I think this is how
I wanna do things.

246
00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:14,043
Then I moved to New York,
and got temp jobs,
and did stand up at night.

247
00:13:14,126 --> 00:13:15,544
My boyfriend at the time,
was like,

248
00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:18,172
"Oh, I really love
this comedian, Louis C.K.,
let's go see him."

249
00:13:19,006 --> 00:13:21,175
He used to have
a totally different act
than he did now,

250
00:13:21,258 --> 00:13:23,636
it was very absurdist,
and that's fine,
you know, whatever.

251
00:13:24,970 --> 00:13:26,597
He wasn't, like,
my favorite comic.

252
00:13:29,141 --> 00:13:31,185
Hey, mind if I get
a quick interview?

253
00:13:31,268 --> 00:13:32,394
I don't really feel like it.

254
00:13:32,478 --> 00:13:34,104
It'll just take a second.

255
00:13:34,522 --> 00:13:38,442
We both were
on this cartoon show
called Home Movies,

256
00:13:38,526 --> 00:13:40,820
and the studios
are in Massachusetts,

257
00:13:40,903 --> 00:13:44,573
and we're both
on the same flight,
to Boston,

258
00:13:44,657 --> 00:13:46,408
so we can go do
this voice-over.

259
00:13:46,492 --> 00:13:50,037
We're sitting
next to each other and I think
we are in First Class,

260
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,124
or maybe just planes back then
were more comfortable,
but he was drinking coffee,

261
00:13:54,208 --> 00:13:56,669
he was drinking orange juice,
and he had his newspaper,

262
00:13:56,752 --> 00:14:01,131
and he was just ignoring me,
which is fine,
but I remember thinking,

263
00:14:01,215 --> 00:14:02,550
"Of course
he's not talking to me,

264
00:14:02,633 --> 00:14:05,010
"'cause I'm just like
a dumb kid, open mic-er,

265
00:14:05,094 --> 00:14:07,179
"and we both happen to be
on this show."

266
00:14:07,263 --> 00:14:11,767
When we got off the plane,
he said, "I'm renting a car,
do you want a ride?"

267
00:14:11,851 --> 00:14:15,896
So we're talking in the car
and he's driving me through,

268
00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:18,524
I think we sort of
went through the town
he grew up in, or near it,

269
00:14:18,607 --> 00:14:23,445
and he very vaguely
started doing a tour of,
like, his sexual thoughts.

270
00:14:23,529 --> 00:14:25,531
Like, that girl in that house
had big tits, red hair

271
00:14:25,614 --> 00:14:28,033
I was in love with her,
used to masturbate
and think about her,

272
00:14:28,117 --> 00:14:29,034
stuff like that.

273
00:14:29,118 --> 00:14:30,786
Am I scared?

274
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:31,704
No.

275
00:14:31,787 --> 00:14:34,331
I would be now,
but I didn't know about
that stuff back then,

276
00:14:34,415 --> 00:14:39,670
and I just remember thinking,
it was the same thought I had
when I auditioned for college,

277
00:14:39,753 --> 00:14:46,051
and the Dean of Acting
asked me to do
the monologue again,

278
00:14:46,135 --> 00:14:48,637
except do it this time
like you've just been raped.

279
00:14:49,805 --> 00:14:52,474
And I didn't know
what that meant.

280
00:14:52,558 --> 00:14:53,851
I've never been raped.

281
00:14:53,934 --> 00:14:57,771
And then I remember thinking,
"You naive child,
this is the theater.

282
00:14:57,855 --> 00:14:59,231
"This is how they talk."

283
00:14:59,315 --> 00:15:02,151
So I had the same thoughts
as Louis is like,

284
00:15:02,234 --> 00:15:04,820
"Hey, I jerked off to this,
and this girl's tits,
and whatever."

285
00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:08,324
I'm like,
"Guess this is
how comedians talk."

286
00:15:08,407 --> 00:15:09,825
And it is, by the way.

287
00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:12,953
But I think that's what people
get confused by,
when you tell them a story

288
00:15:13,037 --> 00:15:16,165
of sexual harassment, like,
that you were so sure
what was happening

289
00:15:16,248 --> 00:15:18,042
and you were laser focused
and taking notes,

290
00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:20,377
because 25 years later,
you're gonna talk about it.

291
00:15:20,461 --> 00:15:23,005
I just thought, like,
whatever feelings
I have about this,

292
00:15:23,088 --> 00:15:24,924
that didn't even
get to come up all the way...

293
00:15:25,925 --> 00:15:26,800
...I'm wrong.

294
00:15:29,428 --> 00:15:31,513
Later in life
we're all living in L.A.

295
00:15:31,597 --> 00:15:33,349
It's like 2003, 2004.

296
00:15:35,601 --> 00:15:37,478
There was just this one night
that I remember.

297
00:15:37,561 --> 00:15:40,397
We're all in the same kinda
shows together.

298
00:15:40,481 --> 00:15:42,608
You know, Louis' like,
becoming Louis.

299
00:15:42,691 --> 00:15:44,735
He's like, doing his honest,
confessional stuff.

300
00:15:44,818 --> 00:15:46,445
He's not doing
the absurd stuff anymore.

301
00:15:46,528 --> 00:15:48,697
He's talking about his wife,
and my daughter's a cunt,

302
00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:50,866
and all that stuff
that seemed really edgy
and funny.

303
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:53,327
And he's like,
"We're all going to the bar."
And I thought,

304
00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:54,828
"Oh, well he never joins us,
but OK."

305
00:15:54,912 --> 00:15:56,956
He's like,
"I'd love to talk to you about
your act."

306
00:15:57,039 --> 00:15:58,040
Or something like that.

307
00:15:59,083 --> 00:16:03,295
We go around the corner
and the bar we go into
has a bar level,

308
00:16:03,379 --> 00:16:05,381
and then there's stairs,
and you can sit up in this

309
00:16:05,464 --> 00:16:07,341
groovy lounge
and sit on floor pillows.

310
00:16:07,424 --> 00:16:09,426
We get up there
and we're kind of, like,

311
00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:12,763
in this corner where
if you're in the downstairs
part of the bar,

312
00:16:12,846 --> 00:16:14,473
you can't see
what we're doing up there.

313
00:16:14,556 --> 00:16:17,226
And so we just kept talking
and, basically,

314
00:16:17,309 --> 00:16:23,774
all that I remember is
he said something about,
"What if a guy asked you

315
00:16:23,857 --> 00:16:26,902
"if he could jerk off
in front of you,
would you oppose that?"

316
00:16:26,986 --> 00:16:29,989
And so many thoughts
were going through my head,
none of which were,

317
00:16:30,072 --> 00:16:32,616
"He's asking me
if he can pull his dick out
and jerk off."

318
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:36,370
One of them was,
"Oh, he's doing a bit
and he's running it by me,

319
00:16:36,453 --> 00:16:43,127
"and he's asking me
what I would think of a loser,
who would pull his dick out,

320
00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:45,838
"or ask a woman
if he could pull his dick out
in front of her."

321
00:16:45,921 --> 00:16:52,094
I remember some, like,
riffing with him about this
absolute loser persona

322
00:16:52,177 --> 00:16:54,346
he was adapting
in order to tell this joke.

323
00:16:54,430 --> 00:16:55,848
What was the punchline
going to be?

324
00:16:55,931 --> 00:16:57,391
Maybe we would
work it out together.

325
00:16:57,474 --> 00:17:02,938
I was so oblivious
that he was, like,
"Are you fucking kidding me?"

326
00:17:03,022 --> 00:17:04,773
You know,
and I was like, "What?"

327
00:17:04,857 --> 00:17:06,859
And he's like,
"What did you think this was?

328
00:17:06,942 --> 00:17:08,402
"Or what did you think
I was asking?"

329
00:17:08,485 --> 00:17:09,820
Something in that vibe.

330
00:17:09,903 --> 00:17:12,865
He basically said something
along the lines of, like,

331
00:17:12,948 --> 00:17:15,034
"What? I like to jerk off
in front of people."

332
00:17:15,117 --> 00:17:17,870
And I was, like,
"You mean you'd have done it,
like, here?

333
00:17:17,953 --> 00:17:19,705
"Like, in public?"

334
00:17:19,788 --> 00:17:25,669
And a friend of mine
came over at that moment
and interrupted, thank God,

335
00:17:25,753 --> 00:17:29,465
and Louis took out a picture,
again, pre-phone cameras,

336
00:17:29,548 --> 00:17:32,217
and just was like,
"I was just showing Jen
a picture of my daughter."

337
00:17:32,301 --> 00:17:35,596
That's when I was just, like,
ew, ew, ew,
'cause he wasn't.

338
00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:37,139
So that was it,
and, again,

339
00:17:37,222 --> 00:17:40,225
I wasn't like,
in a shower after, crying,
like a Lifetime movie.

340
00:17:40,309 --> 00:17:42,102
I was just like,
"What the fuck was that?"

341
00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:45,022
I knew, from then on,
I didn't like him.

342
00:17:45,105 --> 00:17:47,149
I didn't want to
be around him,
but it's just tough,

343
00:17:47,232 --> 00:17:50,277
'cause you'd see, like,
everyone you like and know
hanging out with the dude.

344
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,572
And then it, like,
didn't dawn on me at the time
to ask my guy friends,

345
00:17:53,655 --> 00:17:55,407
"Why are you
friends with him?"

346
00:17:55,491 --> 00:17:59,161
Like... isn't that weird,
to know that he lives
this double life

347
00:17:59,244 --> 00:18:00,621
and you just kinda
let it happen?

348
00:18:00,704 --> 00:18:03,749
And I started to adopt
the attitude of, like,
for a while I was like,

349
00:18:03,832 --> 00:18:05,626
"Yeah, it's totally cool
that he does that."

350
00:18:05,709 --> 00:18:08,462
'Cause I started hearing
more stories, "Oh,
he does it to everyone."

351
00:18:08,545 --> 00:18:09,797
I'm like,
"He is such a weirdo."

352
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,007
I just was like,
I guess it's cool
to act like that.

353
00:18:12,091 --> 00:18:14,510
I mean, I was too old
to think that way,
but I did.

354
00:18:14,593 --> 00:18:19,139
There was another time,
when he got off stage,
same club, same thing,

355
00:18:19,223 --> 00:18:22,726
he was like,
really becoming him
and he came off stage,

356
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:27,231
and like, I'm not saying this
to imply there was
any physical abuse,

357
00:18:27,314 --> 00:18:29,358
but he just sort of,
put his hand
on the back of my neck

358
00:18:29,441 --> 00:18:32,069
and was, like,
"I'm gonna fuck you some day."
Something like that.

359
00:18:32,152 --> 00:18:34,196
I am not saying he meant rape.

360
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:38,534
I think he meant
we're gonna fuck some day,
you know, like, consensual.

361
00:18:38,617 --> 00:18:41,161
I just remember kind of
looking around and...

362
00:18:41,995 --> 00:18:44,873
...like, no one heard that,
you know, and I was, like,
"That's so weird."

363
00:18:45,707 --> 00:18:50,379
I went on a date
and I didn't know this guy
very well, and I sneezed.

364
00:18:50,462 --> 00:18:54,049
And I sneezed so hard
that it shook my entire body

365
00:18:54,133 --> 00:18:55,592
and I shit my pants.

366
00:18:55,676 --> 00:18:57,970
And it was, um...

367
00:18:58,053 --> 00:18:59,471
And then, a few years later,

368
00:18:59,555 --> 00:19:02,683
I was on one of my
opening act gigs in Florida,

369
00:19:02,766 --> 00:19:06,019
and in order to be
a headlining act,
you have to work the road

370
00:19:06,103 --> 00:19:08,105
and be an opening act
for a long time.

371
00:19:08,188 --> 00:19:10,065
And I got an email from him
and, again,

372
00:19:10,149 --> 00:19:12,526
I was just
using the hotel computer,
and he said,

373
00:19:12,609 --> 00:19:16,029
"I see on your website
that you're in
West Palm Beach, Florida."

374
00:19:16,113 --> 00:19:18,615
He's like, "I have a gig
in Miami next week.

375
00:19:18,699 --> 00:19:22,452
"If you just stayed in Florida
you can open for me in Miami,
and just come down to Miami."

376
00:19:22,536 --> 00:19:24,830
And I just was really poor
and had no money,

377
00:19:24,913 --> 00:19:27,708
and I couldn't have afforded
a hotel for five days,

378
00:19:27,791 --> 00:19:29,501
and I would love to be
his opening act.

379
00:19:29,585 --> 00:19:33,839
I'd love to get
that experience of being
in front of bigger crowds

380
00:19:33,922 --> 00:19:35,757
that are--
It was probably gonna be full.

381
00:19:35,841 --> 00:19:39,011
But he said,
"P.S., I'm divorced now,
or getting divorced."

382
00:19:39,094 --> 00:19:40,637
And I went,
"Oh, I'm not gonna do it,

383
00:19:40,721 --> 00:19:42,890
"because he probably wants
someone that might, like,

384
00:19:42,973 --> 00:19:45,058
"fool around with him,
or sleep with him
on the road."

385
00:19:45,142 --> 00:19:47,060
That was, like,
the first time with him that,

386
00:19:47,144 --> 00:19:49,188
an instinct kicked in
and I wasn't like,

387
00:19:49,271 --> 00:19:52,065
"Oh my God, isn't it..."
I kind of was, like,
this isn't good.

388
00:19:53,442 --> 00:19:55,694
You don't know
how it affects you

389
00:19:55,777 --> 00:19:59,072
because it's so weird
and small,

390
00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:01,283
that you don't know
something's weird,

391
00:20:01,366 --> 00:20:05,954
because you've been socialized
in this world where men get to
treat women however they want.

392
00:20:07,456 --> 00:20:10,751
Guys,
give it up for Jen Kirkman,
let her hear it!

393
00:20:12,753 --> 00:20:15,255
I don't know
to be traumatized by
what Louis did,

394
00:20:15,339 --> 00:20:16,965
but I was bothered by it,
I was disturbed.

395
00:20:17,049 --> 00:20:20,552
As the years went on,
and I had more of
a sense of self, I went,

396
00:20:20,636 --> 00:20:22,930
"Oh my God,
that is so fucked up."

397
00:20:23,013 --> 00:20:25,724
And this whole culture
of people that think

398
00:20:25,807 --> 00:20:28,018
it's normal,
they're fucked up.

399
00:20:28,101 --> 00:20:29,519
But that was really it.

400
00:20:29,603 --> 00:20:32,856
That was
the big ending to my story,
until I talked about it.

401
00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:35,567
You guys are awesome,
have a good night,
I'm Jen Kirkman.

402
00:20:55,879 --> 00:20:59,591
So I got a call from my agent,
before this.

403
00:20:59,675 --> 00:21:02,261
And I had some
pretty bad news.

404
00:21:02,344 --> 00:21:06,431
Turns out I have aged out
of both being able to play
Mark Maron's girlfriend

405
00:21:06,515 --> 00:21:08,684
on an episode of Maron,

406
00:21:08,767 --> 00:21:11,520
and getting jerked off
in front of by Louis C.K.

407
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,274
That's a joke,
I don't have an agent.

408
00:21:18,986 --> 00:21:20,779
I knew about the Louis stuff

409
00:21:20,862 --> 00:21:24,574
because it was just,
basically, an open secret
in the comedy community,

410
00:21:24,658 --> 00:21:27,703
but also one of those sort of,
like, open secrets where

411
00:21:27,786 --> 00:21:30,539
sometimes I would hear,
"Well, he did it
to this person, this person."

412
00:21:30,622 --> 00:21:31,999
One time I heard
he did it to men,

413
00:21:32,082 --> 00:21:33,709
and I was, like,
"That's interesting."

414
00:21:33,792 --> 00:21:35,168
That ended up being
just a rumor.

415
00:21:36,169 --> 00:21:41,300
But I had just heard about
this habitual behavior
that had been happening

416
00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:46,471
for a series of years,
and not just to randos,
I mean, to other comedians.

417
00:21:46,555 --> 00:21:48,682
Also, I mean,
I'm a fucking amateur.

418
00:21:48,765 --> 00:21:50,017
I'm a fucking scrub.

419
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:53,812
If I know about this shit,
everybody knows
about this shit.

420
00:21:53,895 --> 00:21:56,857
Someone's, like,
"Oh he did it to
these two girls,

421
00:21:56,940 --> 00:22:00,402
"they did this comedy
festival together in Aspen,
this comedy duo."

422
00:22:00,485 --> 00:22:03,113
I was like,
"Well were they upset?
What was the thing?"

423
00:22:03,196 --> 00:22:05,824
The telephone game
that was played was,

424
00:22:05,907 --> 00:22:07,993
"Oh, no, no, no,
it was a party
and there was, like,

425
00:22:08,076 --> 00:22:10,829
"a bunch of people in the room
and everyone was
doing their thing.

426
00:22:10,912 --> 00:22:13,457
"Some people
were drinking beer,
some people were smoking pot,

427
00:22:13,540 --> 00:22:15,751
"he was jerking off
in the corner,
like you do at a party,

428
00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:17,836
"you know, everyone's
got their own thing."

429
00:22:19,421 --> 00:22:22,174
I would say
an open secret is
the sort of thing in which

430
00:22:22,257 --> 00:22:25,719
people love engaging
in discussion about it,

431
00:22:25,802 --> 00:22:28,180
love being horrified by it,
but it's like,

432
00:22:28,263 --> 00:22:30,432
"At the end of the day,
my hands are tied."

433
00:22:30,515 --> 00:22:34,144
Ma'am, as I've told you
several times already,
this is a police matter.

434
00:22:34,227 --> 00:22:37,147
Well it doesn't
seem to matter to the police.

435
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,275
We had him on the show

436
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,444
because whenever you have
a big, juicy guest spot,

437
00:22:42,527 --> 00:22:44,821
and this was a love interest
for the main character,

438
00:22:44,905 --> 00:22:47,866
there's always, like,
get the biggest star you can.

439
00:22:48,784 --> 00:22:51,661
We took a different approach
which was, like,

440
00:22:51,745 --> 00:22:54,247
let's just get
the funniest person,
like, who cares?

441
00:22:55,707 --> 00:22:59,044
It was the beginning
of the second season

442
00:22:59,127 --> 00:23:01,463
and the show was, like,
teetering on the brink.

443
00:23:01,546 --> 00:23:04,091
I don't think he's the reason
that we stuck around
and survived,

444
00:23:04,174 --> 00:23:05,258
but he's one of them.

445
00:23:06,259 --> 00:23:09,346
And then, at some point,
and, again,
I don't remember when,

446
00:23:09,429 --> 00:23:12,099
or how,
or who told me,
but I started hearing those--

447
00:23:12,182 --> 00:23:16,561
A story of him in a hotel room
or something.

448
00:23:16,645 --> 00:23:19,856
It was vague,
and it was sort of, like,

449
00:23:19,940 --> 00:23:22,734
it was confusing,
there weren't
a lot of details,

450
00:23:22,818 --> 00:23:26,905
but I heard it then
a bunch of times, like,
and from different people.

451
00:23:26,988 --> 00:23:29,783
If his name came up,
that was a thing
that people have said.

452
00:23:29,866 --> 00:23:34,913
And then we, many years
later, had this idea of having
him come back for an episode.

453
00:23:34,996 --> 00:23:36,623
Hey, Leslie.

454
00:23:38,041 --> 00:23:39,543
-Dave!
-Hey.

455
00:23:39,626 --> 00:23:42,546
Oh my God, wow.

456
00:23:42,629 --> 00:23:44,214
And I kinda
didn't do anything about it.

457
00:23:44,297 --> 00:23:48,427
We just kinda had him back
and I pretended like
I didn't know.

458
00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:50,178
My attitude,
when I look back on it,

459
00:23:50,262 --> 00:23:52,055
was, well,
that's not my problem.

460
00:23:52,139 --> 00:23:57,394
Like, I didn't do that
and that's something
that had happened

461
00:23:57,477 --> 00:24:00,647
somewhere else
and I don't know the details,
and I don't know if--

462
00:24:00,730 --> 00:24:05,193
I don't even know
if it's true or not, and so,
it's not my problem.

463
00:24:10,031 --> 00:24:13,452
2012,
there's the Gawker Blind Item
that said,

464
00:24:13,535 --> 00:24:15,787
"This famous comedian
masturbated
in front of people."

465
00:24:16,913 --> 00:24:18,832
Most people were
assuming it's Louis.

466
00:24:21,042 --> 00:24:23,962
I would hear,
"This comedian
knows who the women are.

467
00:24:24,045 --> 00:24:25,839
"This comedian
confirms it's true."

468
00:24:25,922 --> 00:24:29,134
But most people
don't read blind items,

469
00:24:29,217 --> 00:24:31,845
and it didn't break
his ascent,
it's just sort of like,

470
00:24:31,928 --> 00:24:33,305
a blind item happened.

471
00:24:33,388 --> 00:24:35,474
You're exploding in a way
that is--

472
00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:37,767
You're now like
an internet pioneer.

473
00:24:37,851 --> 00:24:43,607
You've got the show,
but then you've found a way
to circumvent Ticketmaster.

474
00:24:43,690 --> 00:24:47,360
You've figured out a way
that people don't have to
pay taxes on toiletries,

475
00:24:47,444 --> 00:24:48,862
you've somehow...

476
00:24:48,945 --> 00:24:51,865
Louis C.K.,
he's an elite comedian,

477
00:24:51,948 --> 00:24:55,619
and he's been
an elite comedian
for 15 years.

478
00:24:55,702 --> 00:24:58,121
These stories have been around
for a while.

479
00:24:58,205 --> 00:25:03,376
Everybody knows and I mean,
and everybody kind of,
casually knows really.

480
00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:07,047
I mean, it's obviously,
this jerking off comedian,

481
00:25:07,130 --> 00:25:09,716
is obviously Louis C.K.

482
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:13,136
One time I was jerking off.
This is another--
This is another aging thing,

483
00:25:13,220 --> 00:25:15,180
I was jerking off
and I looked at my penis,

484
00:25:15,263 --> 00:25:16,890
and it was blurry,

485
00:25:16,973 --> 00:25:21,853
because my eyes... are going,
so I can't--

486
00:25:21,937 --> 00:25:25,440
Because you're supposed to get
reading glasses
when this becomes blurry

487
00:25:25,524 --> 00:25:26,775
and that's exactly--

488
00:25:28,276 --> 00:25:30,820
That's the precise,
fixed length.

489
00:25:34,115 --> 00:25:38,537
In 2015,
Gawker then elaborated
with another report

490
00:25:38,620 --> 00:25:41,790
from an anonymous tipster
who reported that

491
00:25:41,873 --> 00:25:44,292
he had emailed Louis C.K.'s
website to say,

492
00:25:44,376 --> 00:25:46,670
"It's messed up
that you're doing this,
you shouldn't."

493
00:25:46,753 --> 00:25:50,549
And then Louis C.K.
called this person directly.

494
00:25:50,632 --> 00:25:52,259
The way I rationalized it,

495
00:25:52,342 --> 00:25:54,135
I was always like,

496
00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:59,266
"Well, they're not allegations
with a name on them."

497
00:26:04,145 --> 00:26:09,150
It's kind of remarkable
how close to the surface
all this was brewing,

498
00:26:09,234 --> 00:26:15,073
and the cognitive dissonance
it created with fans
and critics

499
00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:17,617
and journalists
including, frankly, myself,

500
00:26:17,701 --> 00:26:20,829
who were aware of this
on some level,

501
00:26:20,912 --> 00:26:23,039
at the same time
that we were

502
00:26:23,123 --> 00:26:26,334
evaluating
and enjoying his work.

503
00:26:28,169 --> 00:26:31,840
I Seem Fun,
The Diary of Jen Kirkman,
episode 90,

504
00:26:31,923 --> 00:26:33,592
coming to you
from Melbourne, Australia,

505
00:26:33,675 --> 00:26:35,427
in a hotel room, on an
iPhone.

506
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:39,389
I had a podcast at the time,
every week,
for my die hard fans,

507
00:26:39,472 --> 00:26:41,808
where I just talked about
what it was like touring.

508
00:26:41,891 --> 00:26:45,312
I was doing this
Melbourne Comedy Festival
in Australia,

509
00:26:45,395 --> 00:26:46,896
but I'm doing
all these interviews.

510
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:48,982
You do press all day long.

511
00:26:49,065 --> 00:26:50,525
Just confirming,
for our audience,

512
00:26:50,609 --> 00:26:51,901
when they come along
and see you,

513
00:26:51,985 --> 00:26:56,489
they won't get any sex stories
or any swearing in the show?

514
00:26:56,573 --> 00:26:58,491
Oh, there's some sex stories.

515
00:26:59,326 --> 00:27:01,161
My act had
very mild jokes

516
00:27:01,244 --> 00:27:04,456
about my first time
having sex,
after being divorced.

517
00:27:04,539 --> 00:27:06,541
I had sex with a younger man,
I was, like,

518
00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:10,503
39 or 38
and he was, like, 25.

519
00:27:10,587 --> 00:27:13,798
I regret it now,
but I exaggerated.

520
00:27:13,882 --> 00:27:15,508
I was 37 when I got divorced.

521
00:27:15,592 --> 00:27:17,385
I went on a date
with a 20-year-old.

522
00:27:17,469 --> 00:27:20,013
I thought,
"I'm gonna be a cougar.
Seems to be in style."

523
00:27:20,889 --> 00:27:22,766
He was not legal
to get into any bars,

524
00:27:22,849 --> 00:27:24,059
so I took him back
to my place.

525
00:27:24,142 --> 00:27:26,436
I served him wine
out of the glasses
I got for my wedding.

526
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:28,480
I knew I would use those
some day.

527
00:27:28,563 --> 00:27:32,859
And all the reviews came out
and people were
calling my show "dirty",

528
00:27:32,942 --> 00:27:34,486
in a derogatory way.

529
00:27:35,236 --> 00:27:37,447
I was like, wait,
I'm A, not even dirty,

530
00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:39,074
but B,
so what if I was?

531
00:27:39,157 --> 00:27:41,201
I know a ton of guys
that are way dirtier than me

532
00:27:41,284 --> 00:27:42,952
and they're, like,
getting lauded for it.

533
00:27:43,036 --> 00:27:45,705
So here I am
in my little hotel room,
with my podcast

534
00:27:45,789 --> 00:27:48,667
that maybe a thousand people
listen to a week,
you know,

535
00:27:48,750 --> 00:27:49,918
not a lot of people,
was like,

536
00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:53,046
"I'll tell you what it's like
being a woman in comedy."
That was the episode.

537
00:27:53,129 --> 00:27:55,298
I am so sick of being told
I can't talk about my age.

538
00:27:55,382 --> 00:27:58,718
I am so sick of being told
everything that I can't do.

539
00:27:58,802 --> 00:28:01,054
Well, you should see the way
some of these men behave,

540
00:28:01,137 --> 00:28:05,725
not on camera,
not on stage,
that is so appalling to me.

541
00:28:05,809 --> 00:28:11,231
The fact that my art
gets reviews that paint me
as this nasty whore,

542
00:28:11,314 --> 00:28:12,899
it really angers me.

543
00:28:13,525 --> 00:28:16,361
If the problem with my act
is you think it means
something about me,

544
00:28:16,444 --> 00:28:17,779
well you're wrong,
it doesn't.

545
00:28:17,862 --> 00:28:20,073
I'm not actually
a problematic person

546
00:28:20,156 --> 00:28:21,866
who's sexually harassing
people.

547
00:28:21,950 --> 00:28:26,496
If that is the problem,
then you need to take
these pervert guys to task,

548
00:28:26,579 --> 00:28:30,125
'cause they're actually
doing it in real life,
and their act is kind of

549
00:28:30,208 --> 00:28:32,794
a cover for it,
or they're telling us
who they are,

550
00:28:32,877 --> 00:28:34,838
but you're not listening.

551
00:28:34,921 --> 00:28:36,881
I have this friend,
his daughter is 15,
he's like,

552
00:28:36,965 --> 00:28:40,760
"She's gonna start having sex.
I don't know what to do.

553
00:28:40,844 --> 00:28:43,138
"What if she has
a bad sexual experience?"

554
00:28:43,221 --> 00:28:48,309
Oh, she's gonna have
a number of those.
Oh yes, she is.

555
00:28:48,393 --> 00:28:51,855
Her whole life is gonna be
just walking through
a blizzard of bad dicks,

556
00:28:51,938 --> 00:28:55,066
just...

557
00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:58,570
Ow!
This dick just--

558
00:28:58,653 --> 00:28:59,904
Jesus.

559
00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:01,698
What the fuck,
that was a big one.

560
00:29:01,781 --> 00:29:03,450
Holy fuck, I'm just
trying to get to work.

561
00:29:05,034 --> 00:29:09,330
A very famous comic, probably
at Cosby level at this point,

562
00:29:09,414 --> 00:29:13,418
he is lauded as a genius,
he is basically
a French film maker

563
00:29:13,501 --> 00:29:17,005
at this point, you know,
new material every year.

564
00:29:17,088 --> 00:29:20,967
He's a known perv,
and there's a lockdown
on talking about him,

565
00:29:21,050 --> 00:29:25,555
and this guy didn't rape me,
but he made a certain,
difficult decision

566
00:29:25,638 --> 00:29:28,308
to go on tour with him
really hard,
because I knew if I did,

567
00:29:28,391 --> 00:29:30,101
I would get
more of the same
weird treatment

568
00:29:30,185 --> 00:29:32,353
I had been getting from him
and it was
really fucked up.

569
00:29:32,437 --> 00:29:34,105
What it's like
to be a woman in comedy,

570
00:29:34,189 --> 00:29:36,149
you hear these comments,
you get offered dicks.

571
00:29:36,232 --> 00:29:37,192
That's it.

572
00:29:40,153 --> 00:29:43,114
And so this blog
put a picture of me
and a picture of Louis,

573
00:29:43,198 --> 00:29:44,741
said something to the effect,

574
00:29:44,824 --> 00:29:46,951
"Did Jen Kirkman
call out Louis C.K.
on her podcast?"

575
00:29:47,619 --> 00:29:49,954
That was the first day of,
like, the end of my life.

576
00:29:50,038 --> 00:29:51,956
Like,
it just snowballed after that.

577
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,416
And so then I took it down.

578
00:29:54,292 --> 00:29:56,836
Articles were coming out,
"What's Jen Kirkman
talking about?"

579
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,421
It was lonely,
lonely, bad time.

580
00:29:59,297 --> 00:30:01,716
Louis at one point
was, like, emailed me,
like, "Call me."

581
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,802
I was, like, I knew
what it was about
and I was, like,

582
00:30:03,885 --> 00:30:06,429
"No. We have to have
this discussion over email."

583
00:30:06,513 --> 00:30:11,392
And he's, like, "Look,
I know what I did to you."
And he named all the things.

584
00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:13,853
I said, "Do you want to
make a joint statement
with me, then?

585
00:30:13,937 --> 00:30:18,358
"That would really help,
if you could just be like,
'Jen and I talked,

586
00:30:18,441 --> 00:30:21,861
"'Yes, I did say these things,
she's cool and I never
did this to anyone else?'"

587
00:30:21,945 --> 00:30:23,029
He's like, "I can't."

588
00:30:24,113 --> 00:30:25,865
And I didn't see that
as a red flag.

589
00:30:25,949 --> 00:30:27,992
He's like,
"I've just learned to
handle this stuff.

590
00:30:28,076 --> 00:30:30,161
"This is your first time
going through it,
but, like,

591
00:30:30,245 --> 00:30:33,456
"you don't talk to the media,
ever, and like,
I have daughters."

592
00:30:33,540 --> 00:30:36,501
I said, "You're right,
you're right, your daughters,
no, totally right."

593
00:30:36,584 --> 00:30:39,087
He's, like,
"Just let this go
and it'll go away."

594
00:30:39,879 --> 00:30:42,090
Every year, I had
something good happening.

595
00:30:42,173 --> 00:30:45,093
Then I had another special,
I had another book,
I had another tour.

596
00:30:45,176 --> 00:30:47,053
Every single press was like,

597
00:30:47,136 --> 00:30:49,430
"If she doesn't talk about
Louis, we're not interested."

598
00:30:50,849 --> 00:30:53,810
So I ended up
not doing a lot of press
for any of those things

599
00:30:53,893 --> 00:30:56,187
because they only want to
talk about Louis.

600
00:30:57,689 --> 00:31:00,692
I have a lot of regrets
about the way
I handled things

601
00:31:00,775 --> 00:31:03,736
but it was something
I went through
that I was not prepared for.

602
00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:06,239
Like, thrown into a war
with no battle training.

603
00:31:06,322 --> 00:31:08,241
Nobody was fighting for me,
nobody was, like,

604
00:31:08,324 --> 00:31:09,909
"Leave her alone."
Nobody was, like,

605
00:31:09,993 --> 00:31:12,203
"You know what,
I have to fucking
say something, guys.

606
00:31:12,287 --> 00:31:15,164
"I'm a successful man
in comedy,
this shit's true."

607
00:31:15,248 --> 00:31:16,791
Even some women comics
were, like,

608
00:31:16,875 --> 00:31:19,127
"That's just Louis,
he does that, it's funny."

609
00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:21,629
So, I just, pfft, you know.

610
00:31:21,713 --> 00:31:24,966
At one point I just lied
and said, "Louis never
did anything to me.

611
00:31:25,049 --> 00:31:26,342
"All those stories
are made up."

612
00:31:26,426 --> 00:31:28,595
I didn't know what else to do,
I needed it to stop.

613
00:31:33,391 --> 00:31:36,519
We're in my home, sadly.

614
00:31:36,603 --> 00:31:39,856
This is my, you know,
wall of effects.

615
00:31:39,939 --> 00:31:42,150
We got
my Wood Man painting,

616
00:31:42,233 --> 00:31:44,819
that I got at
the Six Street Good Will,
I enjoy.

617
00:31:44,903 --> 00:31:47,155
The size of the clarinet
relative to
the rest of his body.

618
00:31:48,364 --> 00:31:51,200
Here is a knife
my friend Sarah
found in a bush.

619
00:31:51,284 --> 00:31:53,578
That goes there.
This is just--

620
00:31:53,661 --> 00:31:56,998
This whole apartment's got big
"that goes there energy",
you know what I mean?

621
00:31:57,081 --> 00:31:58,625
Where it's, like,
you put something,

622
00:31:58,708 --> 00:32:00,543
and then three years later,
it's still there.

623
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,172
It's incredibly dispiriting
to see, like,

624
00:32:04,255 --> 00:32:07,467
the retention rate
of female comedians.

625
00:32:07,550 --> 00:32:12,680
Most female comedians quit,
because it's just
a series of indignities

626
00:32:12,764 --> 00:32:14,724
that they have to suffer
their entire life,

627
00:32:14,807 --> 00:32:18,311
to get less than 50%
of what men get.

628
00:32:20,229 --> 00:32:23,983
Just For Laughs quite
possibly is the biggest comedy
festival in the world.

629
00:32:24,859 --> 00:32:26,027
They contacted me.

630
00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:28,947
They were looking for
somebody to write
about the festival.

631
00:32:29,030 --> 00:32:31,574
I knew someone who was
an editor at Gawker.

632
00:32:31,658 --> 00:32:33,242
I asked them
if that would be fine,

633
00:32:33,326 --> 00:32:35,745
if I went there
on their behalf.

634
00:32:36,704 --> 00:32:40,083
I knew that I wanted to write
about the Louis stuff,

635
00:32:40,166 --> 00:32:41,709
because I had seen
people ignore it.

636
00:32:41,793 --> 00:32:43,503
I knew everybody else
knew about it,

637
00:32:43,586 --> 00:32:47,131
and the fact that he was
the biggest motherfucker
in the game at the time,

638
00:32:47,215 --> 00:32:50,635
people were unwilling
to do anything
to shame him publicly,

639
00:32:50,718 --> 00:32:53,846
for what he had been doing
for, like, 20 years
at that fucking point.

640
00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:57,934
Around the time
that I went there,
the Bill Cosby thing,

641
00:32:58,017 --> 00:33:03,147
basically, it was undeniable
that he had committed
miscellaneous sex crimes.

642
00:33:03,231 --> 00:33:05,274
And so I thought that
I would just ask people,

643
00:33:05,358 --> 00:33:06,818
that were going down
the red carpet,

644
00:33:06,901 --> 00:33:08,778
"How do you feel
about the Cosby accusations?"

645
00:33:08,861 --> 00:33:09,988
And they'd say,
you know,

646
00:33:10,071 --> 00:33:12,323
"I don't think
they're accusations,
I think it's true."

647
00:33:12,407 --> 00:33:15,910
And then I would go,
"Well how do you feel about
the Louis accusations?"

648
00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:19,789
And people that I know knew,
because I know,
would be, like,

649
00:33:19,872 --> 00:33:21,666
"Oh, I don't know
what you're talking about?

650
00:33:21,749 --> 00:33:23,626
"Louis did what? What?"

651
00:33:23,710 --> 00:33:25,211
"Hey, I don't know,
I don't know."

652
00:33:25,294 --> 00:33:28,006
Because, again, at the time
he was the biggest comedian
in the world.

653
00:33:28,089 --> 00:33:32,260
You can't say shit about him
because he's the one
putting asses into seats.

654
00:33:32,343 --> 00:33:35,680
I would say I asked it
to maybe about, like,
four or five people

655
00:33:35,763 --> 00:33:38,099
before the COO, I believe now

656
00:33:38,182 --> 00:33:40,226
he's the head
of the Just For Laughs
organization,

657
00:33:40,309 --> 00:33:42,854
because the
former one was ousted
for being a sex pest.

658
00:33:42,937 --> 00:33:45,398
He approached me
and basically, like,

659
00:33:45,481 --> 00:33:49,652
red in the face,
started yelling at me that
he had heard what I was doing,

660
00:33:49,736 --> 00:33:54,490
what I was asking,
and I could ask those sort of
questions on my own turf,

661
00:33:54,574 --> 00:33:59,328
but this was their turf
and Louis was a friend of the
Just For Laughs organization.

662
00:33:59,412 --> 00:34:01,748
And so I start,
sort of, tearing up

663
00:34:01,831 --> 00:34:03,291
because,
at the end of the day,

664
00:34:03,374 --> 00:34:06,377
I'm really a comedian
and I just got yelled at

665
00:34:06,461 --> 00:34:10,089
by one of the heads of
the biggest comedy festival
in the world,

666
00:34:10,173 --> 00:34:12,216
and threatened, basically,

667
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:15,595
for just simply
asking a fucking question.

668
00:34:16,596 --> 00:34:19,932
I wanted to ask you
about the last
interview on your show,

669
00:34:20,016 --> 00:34:21,642
which I think was Louis C.K.

670
00:34:21,726 --> 00:34:23,019
Yeah.

671
00:34:23,102 --> 00:34:26,939
So from my memory,
I think that was after
some of the rumors

672
00:34:27,023 --> 00:34:30,109
about Louis C.K.'s
alleged harassment
of female comedians

673
00:34:30,193 --> 00:34:31,778
-had started to come out.
-Whoa.

674
00:34:31,861 --> 00:34:34,489
-it was just a thing
circulating on the internet.
-Wait, what?

675
00:34:34,572 --> 00:34:38,493
I think this was after
Jen Kirkman, for example,
had talked about, like,

676
00:34:38,576 --> 00:34:42,080
her knowledge of Louis C.K.'s
alleged harassment
of female comedians.

677
00:34:42,163 --> 00:34:44,540
-At least people
interpreted it that way.
-Yeah.

678
00:34:44,624 --> 00:34:47,960
There was an article
on Gawker, I believe,
about it,

679
00:34:48,044 --> 00:34:51,714
and I just wanted to know,
I mean, if this is
the first you're hearing of it

680
00:34:51,798 --> 00:34:54,133
maybe I already
got my answer.

681
00:34:54,217 --> 00:34:57,386
That there really wasn't
a discussion about this,
on the show, but...

682
00:34:57,470 --> 00:35:00,890
So, wait, wait, wait,
I'm a little lost.

683
00:35:00,973 --> 00:35:04,268
So the internet said
Louis harassed women?

684
00:35:04,352 --> 00:35:06,354
So there was first
a Gawker article,

685
00:35:06,437 --> 00:35:08,856
and then there was
a couple of Tweets by people,

686
00:35:08,940 --> 00:35:11,609
-and I know this is all
internet stuff.
-So, pretty authoritative.

687
00:35:11,692 --> 00:35:14,195
-I know that this is how--
-You know who you're
talking to, right?

688
00:35:14,278 --> 00:35:16,739
No, I totally get that
and it's a fair point

689
00:35:16,823 --> 00:35:21,369
that like, internet rumors
are not, you know,
court cases or anything.

690
00:35:21,452 --> 00:35:23,663
I just wanted to know
if there was
any sort of discussion

691
00:35:23,746 --> 00:35:26,499
about that on the show,
if that was a thing
on your radar?

692
00:35:26,582 --> 00:35:28,626
No, uh, he's...

693
00:35:30,795 --> 00:35:33,506
I-I-I didn't see
the... Tweets.

694
00:35:36,634 --> 00:35:39,929
Louis was directly asked
about these rumors in 2016,

695
00:35:40,012 --> 00:35:43,224
in an interview with Vulture,
and so first he said,

696
00:35:43,307 --> 00:35:46,727
"That's nothing to me,
that's not real."

697
00:35:46,811 --> 00:35:50,606
To say, "that's not real",
it's almost, like,

698
00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:55,862
denying the validity,
or personhood,
or standing of the person

699
00:35:55,945 --> 00:35:58,322
who's even
brought up that concern
in the first place.

700
00:35:58,406 --> 00:36:03,744
And then later on he says,
"You can't expect every
single person to like you,

701
00:36:03,828 --> 00:36:07,623
"or have a positive opinion
of you, and so I'm just
going to focus on the work

702
00:36:07,707 --> 00:36:09,417
"and not on my life."

703
00:36:12,295 --> 00:36:17,633
Before 2017,
he started moving into a role
of more of a producer,

704
00:36:17,717 --> 00:36:20,720
in addition to being a creator
in his own right.

705
00:36:20,803 --> 00:36:25,975
I'm grateful to Louis
for telling John Langraf
that I was a funny lady,

706
00:36:26,058 --> 00:36:29,645
to do a show
from a lady's perspective.

707
00:36:29,729 --> 00:36:36,611
He used his
power and sway in the business
to get Better Things made,

708
00:36:36,694 --> 00:36:38,029
which is Pamela Adlon's show.

709
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:42,283
In a fascinating way,

710
00:36:42,366 --> 00:36:45,077
it's kind of Louis' mirror
image as a show.

711
00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:50,082
It's, like, the perspective
of a divorced woman,
as opposed to a divorced man.

712
00:36:50,166 --> 00:36:51,959
Good evening, hello.

713
00:36:54,003 --> 00:36:56,130
I have cancer,
how are you?

714
00:36:57,673 --> 00:37:01,510
He was there
when Tig Notaro
did the legendary set

715
00:37:01,594 --> 00:37:03,804
where she came out
and she says,
"I have cancer."

716
00:37:03,888 --> 00:37:05,181
He was, like,
"Let me put it out."

717
00:37:05,264 --> 00:37:06,849
He had a big platform,

718
00:37:06,933 --> 00:37:10,186
so, that was a way to get
a lot of attention
to this thing.

719
00:37:10,269 --> 00:37:13,189
Louis watched your performance
and Tweeted,
"It's the greatest stand up

720
00:37:13,272 --> 00:37:16,609
"I've seen."
That he has seen
in his 27 year career,

721
00:37:16,692 --> 00:37:18,027
what you did that night.

722
00:37:18,110 --> 00:37:20,446
-Wow.
-Absolutely incredible
performance.

723
00:37:22,365 --> 00:37:24,408
Thanks.

724
00:37:24,492 --> 00:37:28,913
And then,
after that, Louis C.K. was
an executive producer

725
00:37:28,996 --> 00:37:33,459
on One Mississippi,
which is the Amazon show
that Tig made,

726
00:37:33,542 --> 00:37:37,296
based on the events
that she described
in that stand up set.

727
00:37:37,380 --> 00:37:39,882
We're making an animated show
now with Albert Brookes.

728
00:37:39,966 --> 00:37:43,678
We make Pamela Adlon's show,
Better Things,

729
00:37:43,761 --> 00:37:47,098
Zach Galifianakis' show,
Baskets, that's a big hit.

730
00:37:47,181 --> 00:37:50,268
And Tig Notaro's show
on Amazon.

731
00:37:50,351 --> 00:37:51,936
So we make a lot of shows.

732
00:37:52,019 --> 00:37:55,273
You say, well,
Louis's not a studio head,
but isn't he?

733
00:37:55,356 --> 00:37:58,943
He's a comedy head
of his comedy community.

734
00:37:59,026 --> 00:38:01,779
That's a lot of power,
'cause he can put friends
on the show,

735
00:38:01,862 --> 00:38:03,698
he can not put friends
on the show.

736
00:38:03,781 --> 00:38:08,327
People are scared that they
want to be on his side,
for work.

737
00:38:09,495 --> 00:38:11,998
My friend, Tig Notaro,
I was over her house,

738
00:38:12,081 --> 00:38:14,166
and we were talking,
and she's, like,

739
00:38:14,250 --> 00:38:16,127
telling me a story
about Louis,

740
00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:18,337
and then she was like,
"Oh, by the way,
have you, like,

741
00:38:18,421 --> 00:38:21,382
"heard stuff about him?
Like, I've heard stuff."

742
00:38:22,425 --> 00:38:24,802
When we were moving towards
doing the pilot

743
00:38:24,885 --> 00:38:30,641
is when I saw sides of him
that I hadn't seen,

744
00:38:30,725 --> 00:38:35,688
and I shared that
with other people,

745
00:38:35,771 --> 00:38:42,778
and that's when I started
hearing stories
about the behavior.

746
00:38:43,779 --> 00:38:47,742
I had been asked,
in the press, what I thought

747
00:38:47,825 --> 00:38:49,368
and I said
he should handle it.

748
00:38:51,704 --> 00:38:53,789
Hey, I'm just finishing up
an email, come on in.

749
00:38:54,999 --> 00:38:56,709
Oh, could you
close the door, please?

750
00:38:56,792 --> 00:38:58,294
-Oh yeah, sure.
-Thanks.

751
00:39:01,797 --> 00:39:02,757
Um...

752
00:39:07,636 --> 00:39:08,512
I mean, I...

753
00:39:10,056 --> 00:39:14,018
-I definitely want to
get out of here.
-Yeah, right?

754
00:39:14,101 --> 00:39:16,854
She did an episode,
on her show, One Mississippi,

755
00:39:16,937 --> 00:39:20,024
where an executive masturbates
in front of a woman.

756
00:39:22,109 --> 00:39:24,528
People would ask her
about that episode

757
00:39:24,612 --> 00:39:27,156
and that's when
people started to
put the pieces together.

758
00:39:30,826 --> 00:39:33,996
Even while
these rumors are circulating
and even building,

759
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,248
because there's more
online attention,

760
00:39:36,332 --> 00:39:38,209
he's continuing to
build his career.

761
00:39:38,292 --> 00:39:41,587
He even had this movie come
to the Toronto Film Festival,

762
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:47,176
which seemed to go right up
to the line of addressing some
of these same situations.

763
00:39:47,259 --> 00:39:49,970
Please welcome
Louis fucking C.K.

764
00:39:54,934 --> 00:39:58,145
I was there
as a Hollywood
awards season reporter

765
00:39:58,229 --> 00:40:00,689
and Louis was
premiering this film.

766
00:40:00,773 --> 00:40:02,066
There was a lot of buzz
about it.

767
00:40:02,149 --> 00:40:03,818
You know,
he was a beloved character.

768
00:40:03,901 --> 00:40:05,611
-Hi, Daddy.
-Hi.

769
00:40:05,736 --> 00:40:07,196
Hey, China.

770
00:40:07,279 --> 00:40:10,574
It starts with
this teenage girl
walking around

771
00:40:10,658 --> 00:40:13,035
in almost next to nothing,
and that's his daughter,

772
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:16,497
and she ends up
being seduced by
a 60-something-year-old man.

773
00:40:17,331 --> 00:40:21,293
And then there are characters
in the movie
pretending to masturbate.

774
00:40:25,714 --> 00:40:26,882
Oh, God.

775
00:40:28,259 --> 00:40:30,553
I emerged from
that screening

776
00:40:30,636 --> 00:40:31,804
with my jaw on the ground.

777
00:40:31,887 --> 00:40:33,556
I couldn't believe the movie,

778
00:40:33,639 --> 00:40:40,104
given it almost seemed like
a... a defiance, for him
to write these scenes in.

779
00:40:41,230 --> 00:40:45,818
I had a sit down with him
and asked him,
"Why did you do this?

780
00:40:46,777 --> 00:40:49,572
"What was the purpose?"
And he actually said,

781
00:40:49,655 --> 00:40:52,408
"Oh, it means nothing,
it's just coincidental.

782
00:40:52,491 --> 00:40:55,453
"There're scenes in the
movie, a character's
pretending to masturbate,

783
00:40:55,536 --> 00:40:58,789
"while these are
the huge rumors
circulating about me."

784
00:40:59,582 --> 00:41:01,667
And with
an absolute straight face.

785
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:04,295
We were sitting right across
from each other,

786
00:41:04,378 --> 00:41:07,798
at a not very large cafe table
having this conversation.

787
00:41:10,718 --> 00:41:12,303
You like looking at
young girls?

788
00:41:13,929 --> 00:41:15,764
Sure, who doesn't?

789
00:41:15,848 --> 00:41:19,477
I mean if you had a choice
between looking at
a pretty girl your age,

790
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,271
or a retired bus driver,
who would you choose?

791
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:25,733
I Love You Daddy

792
00:41:25,816 --> 00:41:28,944
is almost explicitly about
a Woody Allen type figure.

793
00:41:29,028 --> 00:41:33,574
It's essentially a movie
about how to deal with
a problematic artist,

794
00:41:33,657 --> 00:41:38,454
by someone many would
now consider to be
a problematic artist.

795
00:41:38,537 --> 00:41:41,499
You know,
you're really kind
of close to

796
00:41:41,582 --> 00:41:43,959
some things within the
entertainment industry.

797
00:41:44,043 --> 00:41:48,005
Tell us a little bit about,
you know, why you wanted to
tell this story.

798
00:41:48,088 --> 00:41:51,675
You know, it just, um...

799
00:41:51,759 --> 00:41:56,305
I guess I like to go up to
electric fences and pee on 'em
and shit on 'em.

800
00:41:56,388 --> 00:41:58,933
I just...

801
00:41:59,808 --> 00:42:02,686
Out of the blue,
I get this email asking,

802
00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:05,648
"Hey, do you want to see
a screening of
I Love You Daddy?"

803
00:42:05,731 --> 00:42:07,733
And I was, like,
you know what, I do.

804
00:42:07,816 --> 00:42:10,110
It was very odd
to receive this invitation.

805
00:42:11,195 --> 00:42:14,490
After I saw that movie,
and as I was driving home,

806
00:42:14,573 --> 00:42:17,243
I just started crying,
'cause I thought
he got away with it.

807
00:42:17,326 --> 00:42:20,204
Not only did he
fucking get away with it,
he's, like,

808
00:42:20,287 --> 00:42:21,747
rubbing it
in all of our faces.

809
00:42:21,830 --> 00:42:24,542
No one's ever gonna
fucking care about this.

810
00:42:24,625 --> 00:42:29,964
I just felt, like, as bad,
perhaps even worse,
than I felt at Just For Laughs

811
00:42:30,047 --> 00:42:32,841
because so much more time
had passed after that.

812
00:42:36,595 --> 00:42:39,723
In 2015, I attended
the Just For Laughs
Festival as a journalist

813
00:42:39,807 --> 00:42:41,475
writing on behalf of Gawker.

814
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:44,103
A profoundly flawed
organization
I miss desperately.

815
00:42:44,186 --> 00:42:47,231
The organizers of the festival
did not know
the purpose of my presence

816
00:42:47,314 --> 00:42:48,816
was a desire to
get to the bottom

817
00:42:48,899 --> 00:42:52,403
of Louis CK's
numerous accusations
of sexual impropriety.

818
00:42:52,486 --> 00:42:55,155
The article where
I talked about what had
happened to me at JFL,

819
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,408
I just published on
my own personal website

820
00:42:57,491 --> 00:43:00,202
because I didn't think anyone
would want to run it,

821
00:43:00,286 --> 00:43:05,749
And then it ended up, like,
getting hard traction online,
like, people were sharing it.

822
00:43:07,167 --> 00:43:09,295
And so Vice re-ran it.

823
00:43:10,921 --> 00:43:15,426
I mean, I just got
infinite fucking just hate
from, you know,

824
00:43:15,509 --> 00:43:18,387
fans of him
saying that I was a liar,

825
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:20,889
that I was jealous,
that I wasn't funny,

826
00:43:20,973 --> 00:43:25,728
that he should sue me
for libel, ETC., ETC.,
ETC., ETC., ETC.

827
00:43:25,811 --> 00:43:29,023
I haven't, like,
uploaded a video of myself
doing comedy

828
00:43:29,106 --> 00:43:31,025
really since this
shit happened,

829
00:43:31,108 --> 00:43:33,694
just because it was
such a tidal wave of hatred

830
00:43:33,777 --> 00:43:36,405
for these people
violently disturbed by me

831
00:43:36,488 --> 00:43:41,118
even suggesting that their
king of comedy could've
done something improprietous.

832
00:43:41,201 --> 00:43:43,787
The argument is always,
well, you know,

833
00:43:43,871 --> 00:43:47,124
comedy is a meritocracy,
just like the entire
entertainment industry,

834
00:43:47,207 --> 00:43:50,586
and you're just bitter
because you're not as talented
as my king,

835
00:43:50,669 --> 00:43:51,879
you know what I mean?

836
00:43:51,962 --> 00:43:56,425
There I stood alone,
in the rain, waiting for a
man who never emerged.

837
00:43:56,508 --> 00:43:58,135
"I think what you're doing
is so brave",

838
00:43:58,218 --> 00:43:59,678
a friend told me, at the time.

839
00:43:59,762 --> 00:44:02,556
"I'm so scared",
I replied.
"I still am."

840
00:44:04,725 --> 00:44:08,187
And just a little lesson
in there for you guys,
do not call a woman crazy,

841
00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:11,523
unless you want to see a woman
go fucking crazy, OK?

842
00:44:11,774 --> 00:44:13,442
Just don't.
Just save yourselves.

843
00:44:13,525 --> 00:44:15,778
If you wanna see--
If you want to tell a woman
she's crazy,

844
00:44:15,861 --> 00:44:17,946
just call her calm,
it'll just throw us off

845
00:44:18,030 --> 00:44:19,448
and the whole thing's
dissipated.

846
00:44:19,531 --> 00:44:21,700
Just go, "Hey, you're being
really calm right now."

847
00:44:22,868 --> 00:44:25,829
"Oh, thank you, a psychic
told me I was calm once,
thanks."

848
00:44:27,289 --> 00:44:29,750
"What were we fighting about,
I don't even know?"

849
00:44:29,833 --> 00:44:32,836
I was interviewed
by the Village Voice,

850
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:34,755
and it was this nice woman
who was, like,

851
00:44:34,838 --> 00:44:37,341
"So you've said all these
conflicting things
about Louis."

852
00:44:37,424 --> 00:44:40,928
And I was, like,
Louis is my friend
and I believe him,

853
00:44:41,011 --> 00:44:44,306
and if these women
come forward,
I will believe them,

854
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:47,184
but they haven't,
so what do you want me to say?

855
00:44:47,267 --> 00:44:49,812
And then New York Times
calls me and they're, like,

856
00:44:49,895 --> 00:44:52,231
"We're doing an article
about Louis,

857
00:44:52,314 --> 00:44:53,607
"and it's coming out
next week."

858
00:44:53,691 --> 00:44:55,275
I'm, like,
"Oh good!"

859
00:45:05,202 --> 00:45:07,705
Listen up,
creeps of Hollywood,

860
00:45:07,788 --> 00:45:09,957
we know who you are.

861
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,503
Weinstein isn't the only
cool democrat lurking in
Film Festival hotels,

862
00:45:14,586 --> 00:45:17,214
waiting to play a jolly
masturbation prank.

863
00:45:17,297 --> 00:45:22,094
Women talk to each other,
and we talk to journalists,
and we talk to lawyers.

864
00:45:22,177 --> 00:45:25,097
It's 2017, we don't have to
put up with this shit.

865
00:45:25,180 --> 00:45:26,515
We are coming for you.

866
00:45:31,103 --> 00:45:33,188
This was
a real moment in time.

867
00:45:34,398 --> 00:45:37,359
Our phones were ringing
off the hook,

868
00:45:37,443 --> 00:45:41,655
and it felt like
the dam was ready to burst.

869
00:45:41,739 --> 00:45:44,700
And that was certainly true
with the Louis C.K. story,

870
00:45:44,783 --> 00:45:49,371
because there were
these rumors
but nobody knew the truth.

871
00:45:50,122 --> 00:45:52,207
It felt like
something we had to cover

872
00:45:52,291 --> 00:45:55,419
because he's
this very prominent comedian

873
00:45:55,502 --> 00:45:57,796
blotted by some
as this feminist.

874
00:45:58,881 --> 00:46:02,384
If he's done this stuff
and he's denied it...

875
00:46:02,468 --> 00:46:06,638
...we just thought, "Well,
let's see how much of a story
there is there." You know?

876
00:46:08,766 --> 00:46:12,978
The story
that had become
an unverified legend

877
00:46:13,061 --> 00:46:17,232
in comedy circles
took place in 2002.

878
00:46:19,067 --> 00:46:20,861
Dana Goodman
and Julia Wolov

879
00:46:20,944 --> 00:46:23,781
are comedians from Chicago,
they were up and coming.

880
00:46:23,864 --> 00:46:27,618
They had a kind of, like,
raucous, raunchy
sort of humor.

881
00:46:28,869 --> 00:46:32,915
And they got a spot at
the Aspen Comedy Festival,
which is a big deal.

882
00:46:32,998 --> 00:46:35,918
After their show,
they encountered Louis

883
00:46:36,001 --> 00:46:37,461
and he asked them
to come hang out,

884
00:46:37,544 --> 00:46:39,171
have a drink with him
in his hotel room.

885
00:46:39,254 --> 00:46:40,589
They didn't think
anything of it,

886
00:46:40,672 --> 00:46:42,257
beyond, "Yeah,
this guy wants to hang."

887
00:46:42,341 --> 00:46:43,884
Aspen's a small town.

888
00:46:43,967 --> 00:46:46,136
So, you know,
everybody kind of, like,

889
00:46:46,220 --> 00:46:48,972
gathers in hotel bars,
hotel spaces,

890
00:46:49,056 --> 00:46:51,934
because there's not
many other places to go
after the clubs close.

891
00:46:53,602 --> 00:46:56,021
So when they
got back to his hotel room,

892
00:46:56,104 --> 00:46:58,690
they were still
in their coats and hats
and just bundled up.

893
00:46:59,483 --> 00:47:02,778
And he said to them,
"Can I take my penis out?"

894
00:47:02,861 --> 00:47:04,363
They were, like,
"What? No."

895
00:47:04,446 --> 00:47:06,657
You know,
they didn't consent,
they just didn't know--

896
00:47:06,740 --> 00:47:08,575
They thought it was a joke,
and laughed it off.

897
00:47:08,659 --> 00:47:10,828
But then he continued
and he just got totally naked

898
00:47:10,911 --> 00:47:13,789
and started masturbating
in front of them.

899
00:47:16,667 --> 00:47:19,044
They described themselves
as being just, like,

900
00:47:19,127 --> 00:47:22,172
frozen in that moment
and not knowing what to do.

901
00:47:22,256 --> 00:47:26,677
And then,
when he was finished,
they fled the room,

902
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,597
and he called after them,
"Which one is Dana
and which one is Julia?"

903
00:47:32,808 --> 00:47:34,893
They told a lot of people
what happened,

904
00:47:34,977 --> 00:47:37,437
they couldn't believe
that it had happened.

905
00:47:38,397 --> 00:47:41,817
Dave Becky was
Louis' manager at the time.

906
00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:45,571
Word got back to him about
what happened to them.

907
00:47:45,654 --> 00:47:48,532
Their manager had
a conversation with
Dave Becky

908
00:47:48,615 --> 00:47:50,784
and Dana and Julia's
perception of
that conversation

909
00:47:50,868 --> 00:47:52,703
was that they were
told to keep quiet.

910
00:47:54,705 --> 00:47:56,999
They were able to
get some work when they
first moved to LA,

911
00:47:57,082 --> 00:47:59,001
but overall, they didn't have
the kind of career

912
00:47:59,084 --> 00:48:00,377
that you
might have envisioned.

913
00:48:00,460 --> 00:48:04,381
Comedy writers who had
such a hit following
in Chicago and Aspen.

914
00:48:04,464 --> 00:48:07,926
They didn't know if they could
pitch themselves to shows,

915
00:48:08,010 --> 00:48:09,887
or projects that Dave Becky
was attached to,

916
00:48:09,970 --> 00:48:12,139
which ended up being
a lot of shows and projects

917
00:48:12,222 --> 00:48:15,058
'cause he ended up being
kind of a king maker
in the comedy world.

918
00:48:16,894 --> 00:48:18,729
If you get a reputation
of somebody who's like

919
00:48:18,812 --> 00:48:22,024
the squeaky wheel
in this world, that cuts off
your career at its knees.

920
00:48:23,859 --> 00:48:25,944
We got the sense that
there were gonna be
other women.

921
00:48:26,028 --> 00:48:28,739
We just sort of divvied up,
you take this period
of his career,

922
00:48:28,822 --> 00:48:31,825
you take this,
and we just started
making calls.

923
00:48:31,909 --> 00:48:34,369
It's a very tricky thing
we're building.

924
00:48:34,453 --> 00:48:37,164
You have a couple of people
who are willing to go
on the record

925
00:48:37,247 --> 00:48:39,583
and talk about it,
and then you
approach someone else

926
00:48:39,666 --> 00:48:41,793
and they say, "Well,
who else have you talked to?"

927
00:48:41,877 --> 00:48:44,838
And you can't say,
but you can say
something like,

928
00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:47,174
"We have other women
willing to go on the record."

929
00:48:47,257 --> 00:48:49,051
You know, imagine
how exposing that is?

930
00:48:49,134 --> 00:48:50,344
You're just living your life.

931
00:48:50,427 --> 00:48:51,970
Do you want to go
in the New York Times

932
00:48:52,054 --> 00:48:54,598
and talk about how Louis C.K.
masturbated in front of you?

933
00:48:55,641 --> 00:48:57,851
New York Times
calls me and they're like,

934
00:48:57,935 --> 00:48:58,894
"Do you want to be in it?"

935
00:48:58,977 --> 00:49:00,812
I said "no",
only because I thought

936
00:49:00,896 --> 00:49:04,316
all the victims in the article
were more physical.

937
00:49:04,399 --> 00:49:06,985
That he actually jerked off
in front of everyone,
and I was like,

938
00:49:07,069 --> 00:49:09,446
Then I'm gonna
get harassed for,
"Why is she in this article?

939
00:49:09,529 --> 00:49:11,448
"He only said something."
So I was just like,

940
00:49:11,531 --> 00:49:14,701
"Please, please
leave me alone,
I cannot be in this."

941
00:49:14,785 --> 00:49:15,911
So I declined.

942
00:49:17,788 --> 00:49:22,250
We eventually
found two other women
willing to go on the record,

943
00:49:22,334 --> 00:49:25,170
and a fifth
who didn't want to.

944
00:49:26,463 --> 00:49:29,383
As we talked to people,
it became really clear

945
00:49:29,466 --> 00:49:31,927
that there was
a pattern of behavior.

946
00:49:32,010 --> 00:49:34,554
I think there was
some confusion
in the early part

947
00:49:34,638 --> 00:49:38,475
of this kind of reporting,
where you thought,
"Is Louis just a bad flirt?"

948
00:49:38,558 --> 00:49:41,770
Probably.
But that's not what this was.

949
00:49:41,853 --> 00:49:44,481
You know,
one of the things that helped
frame my thinking around it

950
00:49:44,564 --> 00:49:49,903
as I was writing it, was just,
what if you worked in a bank?

951
00:49:49,987 --> 00:49:52,072
And you were, like,
a regional manager,

952
00:49:52,155 --> 00:49:54,157
and you were in another office
for a conference,

953
00:49:54,241 --> 00:49:56,827
and another regional manager
came up and said,

954
00:49:56,910 --> 00:49:58,578
"Can I jerk off
in front of you?"

955
00:50:00,914 --> 00:50:01,999
"What?"

956
00:50:02,082 --> 00:50:04,918
Like, that would be
horrifying to you

957
00:50:05,002 --> 00:50:07,045
as a professional
in that context.

958
00:50:09,006 --> 00:50:12,843
As a last step,
you go to the subject
of the story and you say,

959
00:50:12,926 --> 00:50:17,055
"These are the allegations
we have against you.
What can you respond?"

960
00:50:17,889 --> 00:50:20,225
"For Louis,
one of the incidents

961
00:50:20,308 --> 00:50:23,145
"of sexual misconduct
involves two comedians,

962
00:50:23,228 --> 00:50:25,522
"Dana Min Goodman
and Julia Wolov,

963
00:50:25,605 --> 00:50:28,525
"who told us that
you invited them back
to your hotel room,

964
00:50:28,608 --> 00:50:31,278
"asked if you could
take out your penis,
then take off your clothes

965
00:50:31,361 --> 00:50:33,321
"and masturbated
in front of them.

966
00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:34,906
"How do you respond to this?

967
00:50:34,990 --> 00:50:37,701
"Rebecca Cory told us
that in 2005,

968
00:50:37,784 --> 00:50:40,287
"while she was appearing in
a TV pilot with you,

969
00:50:40,370 --> 00:50:42,497
"you asked if you could
masturbate in front of her.

970
00:50:42,581 --> 00:50:43,874
"How do you respond?

971
00:50:43,957 --> 00:50:47,252
"Abby Schachner said that
in a 2003 phone conversation

972
00:50:47,335 --> 00:50:50,589
"she could
clearly hear you masturbating
as the two of you spoke.

973
00:50:50,672 --> 00:50:52,007
"How do you respond?

974
00:50:52,090 --> 00:50:54,217
"At the Chris Rock show,
a female co-worker

975
00:50:54,301 --> 00:50:57,721
"said that you masturbated
in front of her in your
office on a work day,

976
00:50:57,804 --> 00:50:59,973
"while colleagues were
on the other side
of the door.

977
00:51:00,057 --> 00:51:01,725
"How do you respond?

978
00:51:01,808 --> 00:51:06,021
"The women we spoke to
say that you have put them
in an untenable situation,

979
00:51:06,104 --> 00:51:09,024
"that they felt used by
someone they saw
as a gifted comic

980
00:51:09,107 --> 00:51:11,068
"and a major figure
in their field.

981
00:51:11,151 --> 00:51:16,031
"Tig Notaro suspects that
you released her album
to shore up your reputation

982
00:51:16,114 --> 00:51:18,450
"and distract from rumors
about these incidents.

983
00:51:18,533 --> 00:51:20,077
"What is
your response to that?"

984
00:51:22,537 --> 00:51:23,914
And we never got a reply.

985
00:51:26,124 --> 00:51:29,795
We then heard that he
canceled his appearance
on Colbert...

986
00:51:31,046 --> 00:51:33,215
...and that
the movie's premiere
was canceled.

987
00:51:37,844 --> 00:51:40,347
I knew some of the names,
but not all.

988
00:51:40,430 --> 00:51:42,224
The fact that this is
in print

989
00:51:42,307 --> 00:51:43,809
solidifies something.

990
00:51:43,892 --> 00:51:45,977
It makes it
part of the public record.

991
00:51:46,061 --> 00:51:47,813
You can't say
you don't know anymore.

992
00:51:48,563 --> 00:51:53,068
For his entire career,
he kept it quiet.

993
00:51:54,152 --> 00:51:56,071
How many rumors were there
about him?

994
00:51:56,154 --> 00:51:59,491
He got caught,
the man got caught.

995
00:52:00,575 --> 00:52:04,788
What's nearly unique
about the Louis C.K. story

996
00:52:04,871 --> 00:52:10,961
is that there is
no factual dispute
at the heart of this story.

997
00:52:11,044 --> 00:52:13,588
About a day
after it was published,

998
00:52:13,672 --> 00:52:15,507
he put out
a statement that said,

999
00:52:15,590 --> 00:52:17,342
"These stories are true."

1000
00:52:17,425 --> 00:52:18,844
He didn't
use the word "sorry",

1001
00:52:18,927 --> 00:52:21,263
but he wrote a whole essay

1002
00:52:21,346 --> 00:52:24,766
explaining that he knew
he did something wrong.

1003
00:52:24,850 --> 00:52:27,269
He talked a lot
about his own power

1004
00:52:27,352 --> 00:52:29,688
and how he abused
the power that he had.

1005
00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:36,236
Good apologies,

1006
00:52:36,319 --> 00:52:38,655
you acknowledge
in the apology

1007
00:52:38,738 --> 00:52:41,491
what you're
actually apologizing for.

1008
00:52:41,575 --> 00:52:45,287
Like, what're you truly saying
you're sorry you have done?

1009
00:52:45,370 --> 00:52:51,793
I think the short statement
that he offered,
did some version of that.

1010
00:52:51,877 --> 00:52:55,839
But, I mean,
it's a process atonement,
right?

1011
00:53:03,513 --> 00:53:04,723
I didn't know.

1012
00:53:04,806 --> 00:53:06,099
Right.

1013
00:53:06,183 --> 00:53:07,809
-What if I did?
-OK.

1014
00:53:07,893 --> 00:53:10,729
That's the thing
that bothers me.

1015
00:53:10,812 --> 00:53:12,063
What if I did?

1016
00:53:12,147 --> 00:53:14,649
What if I had known
one of the women

1017
00:53:14,733 --> 00:53:18,904
who was making
the accusations, and I don't.

1018
00:53:18,987 --> 00:53:22,282
I know they're
in the comedy world,
but I had not heard of them.

1019
00:53:22,365 --> 00:53:23,867
But let's say I did.

1020
00:53:23,950 --> 00:53:26,244
And one of them
came to me and said,

1021
00:53:26,328 --> 00:53:29,748
"Ten years ago," or whatever,
"Louis did this."

1022
00:53:29,831 --> 00:53:31,041
What would you have done?

1023
00:53:31,124 --> 00:53:34,044
Would I still have
worked with him?

1024
00:53:34,127 --> 00:53:36,171
Would I still greet him,
like, that's the part.

1025
00:53:36,254 --> 00:53:38,215
You can't
answer that question.

1026
00:53:38,298 --> 00:53:40,508
I can't honestly answer,
and that makes me feel shitty.

1027
00:53:40,592 --> 00:53:42,510
When the actual story broke,

1028
00:53:42,594 --> 00:53:45,764
and it was not just
that story, but, like, boom,
boom, boom, boom, boom,

1029
00:53:45,847 --> 00:53:49,726
I was like, well,
the fact that I thought
it wasn't my problem

1030
00:53:49,809 --> 00:53:51,061
is the problem.

1031
00:53:51,144 --> 00:53:54,064
That's exactly the problem,
is that everybody
was treating this

1032
00:53:54,147 --> 00:53:55,440
like it wasn't their problem.

1033
00:53:55,523 --> 00:53:59,194
And it takes, like, years of
investigative journalism

1034
00:53:59,277 --> 00:54:01,780
and the courage of
dozens of women
to step forward,

1035
00:54:01,863 --> 00:54:05,492
at the risk of their own
sanity, health, safety
and careers,

1036
00:54:05,575 --> 00:54:08,203
in order to make it
not a problem anymore.

1037
00:54:08,286 --> 00:54:11,539
Well, shit.
Like, that is my problem.

1038
00:54:11,790 --> 00:54:13,041
They tried to kill Louis C.K.

1039
00:54:14,876 --> 00:54:16,378
They won't stop 'til
that man is dead.

1040
00:54:16,461 --> 00:54:19,381
They're trying to kill
Louis C.K., you know?

1041
00:54:19,464 --> 00:54:22,884
Who would have thought in 2018
I would be the most powerful
Louis in comedy?

1042
00:54:27,847 --> 00:54:29,641
What did Louis C.K.
really do?
What did he do?

1043
00:54:29,724 --> 00:54:31,977
He jerked off
in front of a few women,
right?

1044
00:54:32,811 --> 00:54:33,853
Who hasn't?

1045
00:54:37,774 --> 00:54:39,985
For some of the women
in the Louis story,

1046
00:54:40,068 --> 00:54:44,948
the comedy community did not
go to bat for them in the way
that they might have hoped.

1047
00:54:45,031 --> 00:54:49,744
I mean, there's just--
There's litany of things
that are way worse

1048
00:54:49,828 --> 00:54:51,997
than whacking off
in front of people.

1049
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:53,832
which is not cool either,
of course.

1050
00:54:53,915 --> 00:54:56,001
If we're gonna grade it
on a scale of this,

1051
00:54:56,084 --> 00:54:58,044
to drugging
and raping 60 women,

1052
00:54:58,128 --> 00:55:02,132
I guess if we must
measure things that way,
yes, this is less bad.

1053
00:55:02,215 --> 00:55:03,508
I don't know.

1054
00:55:03,591 --> 00:55:06,553
If nothing else, if you can
find no compassion for him,

1055
00:55:06,636 --> 00:55:08,930
which I think you should,
think about how his daughters,

1056
00:55:09,014 --> 00:55:11,016
who hear all of this stuff,
feel.

1057
00:55:11,099 --> 00:55:14,019
Why don't you
leave him alone for them,
if you're so women empowering.

1058
00:55:14,102 --> 00:55:15,603
People saying,
"What's the big deal?

1059
00:55:15,687 --> 00:55:17,105
"You were masturbated
in front of.

1060
00:55:17,188 --> 00:55:19,232
"Why didn't you just
leave the hotel room?"

1061
00:55:19,316 --> 00:55:22,527
Like, people questioning
their experience over and over
and saying,

1062
00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:24,904
"You're making a mountain
out of a molehill."

1063
00:55:24,988 --> 00:55:27,073
If you don't run out the room

1064
00:55:27,157 --> 00:55:29,617
and go, "Excuse me,
you don't talk to me that--

1065
00:55:29,701 --> 00:55:32,579
"You don't do that to me,
excuse me." And leave.

1066
00:55:32,662 --> 00:55:34,372
But you stayed around
'cause you're like,

1067
00:55:34,456 --> 00:55:37,792
"Well, I thought maybe
he was gonna give me
a writing job."

1068
00:55:37,876 --> 00:55:39,252
Well, you ain't nothing
but a ho.

1069
00:55:41,046 --> 00:55:44,341
If something horrible
has happened to you,

1070
00:55:44,424 --> 00:55:47,844
why should it
continue to hurt you
when you bring it to light?

1071
00:55:47,927 --> 00:55:49,137
You know?

1072
00:55:52,432 --> 00:55:54,976
That to me is kind of
the more interesting question.

1073
00:55:57,354 --> 00:55:58,938
and almost
the more important one.

1074
00:56:01,983 --> 00:56:05,278
One lady said,
"Louis C.K. masturbating
in front of me...

1075
00:56:06,571 --> 00:56:09,324
"...ruined my comedy dreams."
Word.

1076
00:56:14,454 --> 00:56:17,332
I got a phone call, it was the
beginning of the new year.

1077
00:56:17,415 --> 00:56:20,668
Apparently Dave Chappelle
came out with a special

1078
00:56:20,752 --> 00:56:23,129
and he brought up
the Louis stuff.

1079
00:56:23,213 --> 00:56:24,631
People were
watching the special,

1080
00:56:24,714 --> 00:56:26,633
and then they know
that he's talking about me.

1081
00:56:26,716 --> 00:56:31,596
Louis C.K. was masturbating
while I was
on the phone with him.

1082
00:56:31,679 --> 00:56:33,515
Bitch, you don't know
how to hang up the phone?

1083
00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:38,520
I became the joke.

1084
00:56:39,646 --> 00:56:42,190
To a certain extent,
I felt like he wasn't
talking about me,

1085
00:56:42,273 --> 00:56:46,027
'cause he got it wrong, like,
I didn't say
what he thought I said.

1086
00:56:46,111 --> 00:56:49,155
I think he took
the spin out of Judd Apatow,

1087
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,867
the dream killer tweet,
and that's what
he's took from.

1088
00:56:52,951 --> 00:56:54,077
And then I think later on,

1089
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,413
became a Martin Luther King,
having a dream,

1090
00:56:56,496 --> 00:56:58,540
you know, like,
don't have a dream.

1091
00:56:58,623 --> 00:57:00,125
Well then I dare say, madam...

1092
00:57:01,292 --> 00:57:02,919
...you may have
never had a dream.

1093
00:57:05,213 --> 00:57:06,965
Come on, man,
that's a brittle spirit.

1094
00:57:10,969 --> 00:57:13,054
That is a brittle ass spirit.

1095
00:57:13,138 --> 00:57:15,849
That shit is too much,
this is a grown-ass woman.

1096
00:57:15,932 --> 00:57:17,725
I don't know,
I think initially
I was pissed,

1097
00:57:17,809 --> 00:57:20,728
because, I mean,
I remember when he was offered
$50 million or whatever

1098
00:57:20,812 --> 00:57:22,147
and he didn't take--
You know?

1099
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:23,648
And people had thoughts
about that

1100
00:57:23,731 --> 00:57:26,025
and he lost his mind there
for whatever reason,

1101
00:57:26,109 --> 00:57:28,236
I felt empathy towards him
for that.

1102
00:57:28,319 --> 00:57:31,197
Because I thought
if you're a creative person
and you're giving that,

1103
00:57:31,281 --> 00:57:32,490
that would be very difficult.

1104
00:57:33,658 --> 00:57:36,870
But years later,
Dave can say it's completely
something different.

1105
00:57:38,163 --> 00:57:40,582
I just don't think
he understands that

1106
00:57:40,665 --> 00:57:43,585
things are situational,
it's not black and white.

1107
00:57:43,668 --> 00:57:48,548
"Hello, police?
Yes, I am on the other line
with comedian Louis C.K.,

1108
00:57:48,631 --> 00:57:55,180
"and I think
that he is masturbating
while I'm on the phone."

1109
00:57:55,263 --> 00:57:58,183
You know what the police
are gonna say in Atlanta?

1110
00:57:58,266 --> 00:58:00,101
"Well, what are you guys
talking about?"

1111
00:58:02,729 --> 00:58:05,732
It does bother me that, like,
I'm not gonna live this down.

1112
00:58:05,815 --> 00:58:09,944
Like, this is gonna be,
like, in my fucking obituary.

1113
00:58:10,028 --> 00:58:11,529
And it bothers me
that this is, like,

1114
00:58:11,613 --> 00:58:13,781
the bigger, you know--
This is like my thing,

1115
00:58:13,865 --> 00:58:16,409
I haven't, like,
surpassed this.
You know?

1116
00:58:16,493 --> 00:58:18,661
I don't know what else
will be mentioned,
you know?

1117
00:58:18,745 --> 00:58:20,497
Besides, it's like...

1118
00:58:33,092 --> 00:58:34,302
Hey, Giant?

1119
00:58:34,385 --> 00:58:35,803
What? Come here.

1120
00:58:38,223 --> 00:58:39,891
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm an artist.

1121
00:58:40,725 --> 00:58:43,186
Do you know
I love children's poems,

1122
00:58:43,269 --> 00:58:45,730
And I always wanted to write,
create for children.

1123
00:58:46,397 --> 00:58:48,733
And for a while,
I was writing
young adult books.

1124
00:58:50,151 --> 00:58:52,445
I think creating
is part of my nature,

1125
00:58:52,529 --> 00:58:54,739
I think performing
is definitely
more of a challenge.

1126
00:58:56,658 --> 00:58:58,952
Let's see here, so...

1127
00:58:59,035 --> 00:59:02,914
Bob, I'm looking for--
They want to see
embarrassing things,

1128
00:59:02,997 --> 00:59:06,459
to see that I was--
To validate me
that I was once...

1129
00:59:07,544 --> 00:59:09,128
They want--
I don't know what they want.

1130
00:59:09,212 --> 00:59:12,632
They want me to find--
I hosted a children's show
at one point in time.

1131
00:59:13,466 --> 00:59:15,093
Water is all around you.

1132
00:59:15,176 --> 00:59:18,680
You drink it,
you swim in it, and if you
had to live without it,

1133
00:59:18,763 --> 00:59:20,265
you'd be like a fish out of...

1134
00:59:21,516 --> 00:59:23,851
...well that is today's topic
on Up and Running.

1135
00:59:23,935 --> 00:59:27,897
Let's see,
I think it might be in here.

1136
00:59:27,981 --> 00:59:30,608
Yes.
This is a bunch of stuff.

1137
00:59:33,903 --> 00:59:35,363
Ah, sorry.

1138
00:59:35,446 --> 00:59:37,824
Yeah,
so there's this stuff.

1139
00:59:37,907 --> 00:59:40,201
Oh, my first thing I ever did,
a body piece.

1140
00:59:40,285 --> 00:59:41,578
That was in college.

1141
00:59:41,661 --> 00:59:43,955
4, 16, '93.

1142
00:59:48,293 --> 00:59:50,128
So I think
I always loved comedy.

1143
00:59:50,211 --> 00:59:51,963
Just needing to
express myself.

1144
00:59:54,132 --> 00:59:56,217
After school,
I went to Chicago,

1145
00:59:56,301 --> 00:59:58,970
because I saw a book
about improvising,

1146
00:59:59,053 --> 01:00:00,722
and I started studying
in Chicago.

1147
01:00:01,431 --> 01:00:04,851
The Second City is like
a comedic institution,

1148
01:00:04,934 --> 01:00:08,313
it's where all these
wonderful people
have come from, you know?

1149
01:00:08,396 --> 01:00:14,027
Gilda Radner, Joan Rivers,
Tina, Amy Poehler.

1150
01:00:14,110 --> 01:00:17,071
I think I auditioned for it
and I didn't get it
and then I auditioned for it,

1151
01:00:17,155 --> 01:00:19,574
and I rolled around
like a meat ball and I got it.

1152
01:00:20,825 --> 01:00:23,786
I performed for two years
with Second City.

1153
01:00:24,662 --> 01:00:27,290
I think it was Adam McKay
or someone I admired, said,

1154
01:00:27,373 --> 01:00:30,084
"Don't lose your voice."
And I got really scared.

1155
01:00:30,168 --> 01:00:32,337
I said, "What's my voice?
What's my voice?"

1156
01:00:33,046 --> 01:00:35,548
I always thought of myself
as more of a writer,

1157
01:00:35,632 --> 01:00:38,384
and creator,
more than a performer.

1158
01:00:41,304 --> 01:00:45,433
From the ABC
Broadcast Center in New York,

1159
01:00:45,516 --> 01:00:49,604
it's the Pepsi Stuff
Dana Carvey Show.

1160
01:00:50,647 --> 01:00:55,234
-Can I help you?
-Uh, two tickets
for Dead Man's Highway.

1161
01:00:55,318 --> 01:00:58,738
-Yeah, two! Two tickets!
-$60.

1162
01:00:58,821 --> 01:01:02,992
The first time I found out
about the writing gig

1163
01:01:03,076 --> 01:01:04,494
for the Dana Carvey Show,

1164
01:01:04,577 --> 01:01:07,497
was via my boyfriend
at the time, Jon.

1165
01:01:07,580 --> 01:01:09,707
And he told me about,
that there was a thing,

1166
01:01:09,791 --> 01:01:11,376
that they're looking
for writers.

1167
01:01:11,459 --> 01:01:14,170
I wrote up a little packet
in my closet,

1168
01:01:14,253 --> 01:01:16,214
and I sent it
to Brillstein-Grey.

1169
01:01:16,297 --> 01:01:19,092
My boyfriend,
he went for an interview

1170
01:01:19,175 --> 01:01:20,677
with Robert Smigel,

1171
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,762
and my stuff was
on the top of his desk.

1172
01:01:23,221 --> 01:01:25,556
And that was just,
kind of, exciting enough.

1173
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,726
But then, a few days later,
I got a phone call
from Louis C.K.,

1174
01:01:28,810 --> 01:01:31,646
Louis, to, um,
submit more writing.

1175
01:01:32,438 --> 01:01:35,900
I don't hear back,
but Jon gets the job.

1176
01:01:36,776 --> 01:01:39,153
And then, I went to visit,
and I know, one day,

1177
01:01:39,237 --> 01:01:41,406
we ate with Louis
and his wife at the time.

1178
01:01:41,489 --> 01:01:44,409
And then, I ran into him for,
like, a UCB thing,

1179
01:01:44,492 --> 01:01:46,828
they were doing something,
and I was helping them.

1180
01:01:46,911 --> 01:01:48,788
And he seemed happy
to see me, you know?

1181
01:01:48,871 --> 01:01:50,623
Then remembered
something that I sent

1182
01:01:50,707 --> 01:01:53,334
in that second writing
sample that he liked.

1183
01:01:53,418 --> 01:01:55,545
So, it was always nice
when someone comment--

1184
01:01:55,628 --> 01:01:57,630
You know,
they remember that thing.

1185
01:02:00,591 --> 01:02:02,427
Well, I moved to California.

1186
01:02:02,844 --> 01:02:05,972
Then, I ran into him again,
the end of 2002,

1187
01:02:06,055 --> 01:02:07,557
or the beginning of 2003.

1188
01:02:08,266 --> 01:02:09,809
And he gave me his information

1189
01:02:09,892 --> 01:02:12,061
and where he was working,
or his phone number,

1190
01:02:12,145 --> 01:02:13,980
to get in contact with him,
or whatnot.

1191
01:02:14,397 --> 01:02:16,899
But I guess
I created the show,
because it was kind of

1192
01:02:16,983 --> 01:02:18,609
who I was afraid
I was gonna be,

1193
01:02:18,693 --> 01:02:19,902
and who I think I am.

1194
01:02:20,486 --> 01:02:22,488
I called him up,
'cause I wanted him

1195
01:02:22,572 --> 01:02:25,241
to come to this show,
'cause, hey,

1196
01:02:25,324 --> 01:02:28,161
I'd just created
my first solo show
since I'd been out here,

1197
01:02:28,244 --> 01:02:29,829
and this is something I do,

1198
01:02:29,912 --> 01:02:31,998
and why not show
what I've been working on?

1199
01:02:32,081 --> 01:02:34,917
And, uh,
he started telling me,

1200
01:02:35,001 --> 01:02:38,838
very early on, um...
It veered very quickly,

1201
01:02:38,921 --> 01:02:41,549
I didn't even get to say why
I was calling, or whatever.

1202
01:02:41,632 --> 01:02:45,428
And then, he started
talking about... my picture,

1203
01:02:45,511 --> 01:02:47,263
that he remembered that,
you know,

1204
01:02:47,346 --> 01:02:51,017
Jon had it when
he worked on the show,

1205
01:02:51,100 --> 01:02:53,686
and that, some of the things
I had made Jon,

1206
01:02:53,770 --> 01:02:56,147
and he was commenting,
and then it just started...

1207
01:02:56,230 --> 01:02:57,982
It was beginning to turn.

1208
01:02:58,065 --> 01:02:59,901
Where, he was talking about...

1209
01:02:59,984 --> 01:03:01,319
..what turns him on,

1210
01:03:01,402 --> 01:03:04,030
but it came in through
how cute I was.

1211
01:03:04,113 --> 01:03:06,032
It just started
getting into fantasy.

1212
01:03:06,115 --> 01:03:07,909
It just started
getting inappropriate.

1213
01:03:07,992 --> 01:03:10,411
Yet, I thought I was
being hazed, and I felt like,

1214
01:03:10,495 --> 01:03:13,623
at one point,
he turned his blinds,
I don't even know why,

1215
01:03:13,706 --> 01:03:16,501
there was something
that happened,
'cause I'm only hearing.

1216
01:03:16,584 --> 01:03:19,128
Are you supposed to say,
"Are you masturb--"

1217
01:03:19,212 --> 01:03:22,590
-That's a weird thing to say
to someone you don't know.
-I didn't say that.

1218
01:03:22,673 --> 01:03:25,176
If someone says,
"Can I masturbate
in front of you..."

1219
01:03:25,259 --> 01:03:27,011
-Well, he didn't ask me!
-No, I know.

1220
01:03:27,094 --> 01:03:29,430
-He didn't ask me,
he just started doing it.
-Yeah.

1221
01:03:30,389 --> 01:03:32,642
But, when I brought up
the show, I remember,

1222
01:03:32,725 --> 01:03:34,352
he kind of quickly skedaddled,

1223
01:03:34,435 --> 01:03:36,229
like, "Yeah, I'll see,
really busy."

1224
01:03:36,312 --> 01:03:39,482
And I said... And this
was what bothered me the most,

1225
01:03:39,565 --> 01:03:42,819
is that I said,
"This isn't gonna be
the last time we talk, is it?"

1226
01:03:43,694 --> 01:03:47,073
That was the part that felt
extremely vulnerable to me,

1227
01:03:47,156 --> 01:03:49,992
that it just sounds weird,
it seemed weird, even then.

1228
01:03:50,076 --> 01:03:52,787
It's like...
I just felt duped.

1229
01:03:53,329 --> 01:03:56,874
When I got off the phone,
I called up my friend, Stu.

1230
01:03:56,958 --> 01:03:59,335
He brought up Dana and Julia
and I didn't know,

1231
01:03:59,418 --> 01:04:01,462
and I said,
"Why didn't you tell me?"

1232
01:04:01,546 --> 01:04:03,881
And he thought
I-- he thought I knew.

1233
01:04:03,965 --> 01:04:05,800
And we still fight
about it sometimes.

1234
01:04:05,883 --> 01:04:07,593
When the article
came out, I said,

1235
01:04:07,677 --> 01:04:10,179
"Why didn't you tell me?"
If I would've known,

1236
01:04:10,263 --> 01:04:13,099
I wouldn't have been
in that sit-- I would've known

1237
01:04:13,182 --> 01:04:15,977
that I was, you know,
being duped.

1238
01:04:16,060 --> 01:04:17,812
It was one of those times...

1239
01:04:18,813 --> 01:04:21,566
...you know, where just--
where things in life happen,

1240
01:04:21,649 --> 01:04:24,861
and various things happen
in kind of a sequential order,

1241
01:04:24,944 --> 01:04:27,113
that just, kind of,
knock at your worth.

1242
01:04:28,155 --> 01:04:31,993
I moved back to Chicago
for a short time, after that.

1243
01:04:32,076 --> 01:04:35,913
My dad had just died,
I was a bit broken.

1244
01:04:37,498 --> 01:04:38,916
So, I hid for a couple years.

1245
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,586
I'm a hider. I'm a hider.

1246
01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:45,923
So, I think it was,
like, 2009,

1247
01:04:46,007 --> 01:04:48,175
I got a Facebook message
from Louis...

1248
01:04:49,635 --> 01:04:52,388
...saying, "I think, you know,
the last time we talked,

1249
01:04:52,471 --> 01:04:53,764
it was weird."

1250
01:04:55,099 --> 01:04:56,475
I said, "Yes, it was weird."

1251
01:05:10,197 --> 01:05:11,866
And then,
am I gonna be around,

1252
01:05:11,949 --> 01:05:13,534
and I met him at Canter's.

1253
01:05:15,244 --> 01:05:17,663
The first thing I said is,
"Do you have a problem?"

1254
01:05:17,747 --> 01:05:19,916
'Cause, you know,
when I got off the phone,

1255
01:05:19,999 --> 01:05:21,834
I learned about
two other people.

1256
01:05:21,918 --> 01:05:23,419
I said,
"Do you have a problem?"

1257
01:05:23,502 --> 01:05:25,463
And he said, "No, no,"
and he-- he told me

1258
01:05:25,546 --> 01:05:27,465
his sob story
about, you know,

1259
01:05:27,548 --> 01:05:29,800
what happened to him at Aspen.

1260
01:05:29,884 --> 01:05:33,262
Then, he told me
his perspective,
which was, you know,

1261
01:05:33,346 --> 01:05:35,765
he felt like everybody
made fun of him,

1262
01:05:35,848 --> 01:05:38,684
whatever, he made himself
the victim in that dynamic.

1263
01:05:38,768 --> 01:05:41,687
Although, when I left him
that day, I said,

1264
01:05:41,771 --> 01:05:43,522
"Your children
will always love you."

1265
01:05:43,606 --> 01:05:45,650
I said, "No matter what,
you know, happens,

1266
01:05:45,733 --> 01:05:47,443
"your children
will always love you."

1267
01:05:47,526 --> 01:05:50,988
'Cause my dad didn't do
the most wonderful things,

1268
01:05:51,072 --> 01:05:52,990
and, like, I still love him.

1269
01:05:53,074 --> 01:05:54,116
So, like...

1270
01:05:55,326 --> 01:05:57,370
...that's why,
you know, people do--

1271
01:05:57,453 --> 01:06:01,499
People don't always
follow, you know,

1272
01:06:01,582 --> 01:06:04,585
they don't always follow
the path of the norm.

1273
01:06:05,586 --> 01:06:07,880
But, you know, it doesn't
justify hurting people,

1274
01:06:07,964 --> 01:06:09,382
or making people, you know...

1275
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:11,634
You know.

1276
01:06:25,147 --> 01:06:27,650
I was at Wholefoods,
I picked up an eggplant,

1277
01:06:27,733 --> 01:06:30,152
and this dude looked at me,
and did me like this...

1278
01:06:30,236 --> 01:06:31,904
I was like,

1279
01:06:31,988 --> 01:06:35,116
"I do not expect that shit
at Wholefoods."

1280
01:06:35,908 --> 01:06:37,660
That is some
Trader Joe's shit.

1281
01:06:39,453 --> 01:06:42,123
I did not pay $13
for some grapes

1282
01:06:42,206 --> 01:06:44,750
to get sexually
assaulted, asshole.

1283
01:06:45,918 --> 01:06:49,130
I'm at the Cellar one day,
and someone starts
talking to me,

1284
01:06:49,213 --> 01:06:52,299
and he said,
"Hey, I wanted to ask
you about the Louis thing."

1285
01:06:52,383 --> 01:06:53,884
It was very
matter of fact, like,

1286
01:06:53,968 --> 01:06:55,636
"Do you think
he's gonna come back?"

1287
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:57,096
"Yeah, of course I do."

1288
01:06:57,179 --> 01:06:59,682
My reality is, usually,

1289
01:06:59,765 --> 01:07:02,143
white men get away with
the stuff that they do,

1290
01:07:02,226 --> 01:07:03,978
'cause if they didn't,
we wouldn't be

1291
01:07:04,061 --> 01:07:05,896
where we are today, right?

1292
01:07:05,980 --> 01:07:08,190
And that-- that was
appalling to some people.

1293
01:07:08,274 --> 01:07:10,484
And I'm like, "Well,
what world do you live in?

1294
01:07:10,568 --> 01:07:12,737
"Do you think they're gonna
put him on a boat,

1295
01:07:12,820 --> 01:07:14,864
"and send him to an island
and stone him?

1296
01:07:14,947 --> 01:07:16,407
"Like, what the hell do you--

1297
01:07:16,490 --> 01:07:18,284
"What society have
you been living in?

1298
01:07:18,367 --> 01:07:20,703
"Why am I the only one
that is,

1299
01:07:20,786 --> 01:07:22,413
"you know,
subject to reality?

1300
01:07:22,496 --> 01:07:24,832
"Like, you know
he's coming back, right?"

1301
01:07:34,675 --> 01:07:37,845
Louis's quiet period
lasted about nine months,

1302
01:07:37,928 --> 01:07:40,181
and then he suddenly made
an unannounced drop-in

1303
01:07:40,264 --> 01:07:41,307
at the Comedy Cellar.

1304
01:07:42,308 --> 01:07:46,437
The Cellar is like this locus
of the comedy world
in Manhattan.

1305
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:49,398
It's the place where you can
see an up-and-coming act,

1306
01:07:49,482 --> 01:07:51,400
and Chris Rock
on the same night.

1307
01:07:51,484 --> 01:07:53,360
It's a comedians hang-out.

1308
01:07:53,444 --> 01:07:55,654
People talk about
making it at the Cellar,

1309
01:07:55,738 --> 01:07:57,531
like, if you get past
the booker,

1310
01:07:57,615 --> 01:07:59,950
that is considered
the gold standard

1311
01:08:00,034 --> 01:08:01,452
of stand-up comedy.

1312
01:08:02,203 --> 01:08:05,122
I knew, at some point,
I'm gonna have a predicament,

1313
01:08:05,372 --> 01:08:07,750
'cause I just knew he would
wanna come back,

1314
01:08:07,833 --> 01:08:11,504
and it would be here
that he'd wanna come back.

1315
01:08:12,213 --> 01:08:15,216
And then, the-- you know,
the shit hit the fan.

1316
01:08:15,299 --> 01:08:16,759
It was-- it was nuts.

1317
01:08:16,842 --> 01:08:18,302
"Uncomfortable,"

1318
01:08:18,385 --> 01:08:20,387
"Disgusting,"
and "Frustrating."

1319
01:08:20,471 --> 01:08:22,640
That's how two women
in attendance described

1320
01:08:22,723 --> 01:08:25,684
the atmosphere during
Louis C.K.'s surprise
stand-up comedy set.

1321
01:08:25,768 --> 01:08:28,020
One audience
member called the club

1322
01:08:28,104 --> 01:08:30,439
-to object to
the surprise set.
-When, if ever,

1323
01:08:30,523 --> 01:08:33,192
is it appropriate for people
accused of sexual misconduct

1324
01:08:33,275 --> 01:08:36,278
-to try and make a comeback?
-A social
media firestorm...

1325
01:08:39,698 --> 01:08:42,827
He could've waited two years,
he still would've been OK.

1326
01:08:42,910 --> 01:08:44,662
Donate to
the Me Too movement.

1327
01:08:44,745 --> 01:08:48,499
Go spend your time with women
that have been crime victims.

1328
01:08:48,582 --> 01:08:51,335
Then, when somebody
like Louis C.K. comes out,

1329
01:08:51,418 --> 01:08:54,213
he's changing the rules,
he's testing the waters,

1330
01:08:54,296 --> 01:08:57,049
and he's saying,
"I'm ready to come back."

1331
01:08:58,634 --> 01:09:01,846
Everybody I know,
knows people...

1332
01:09:01,929 --> 01:09:04,640
...who've done things
they should be ashamed of.

1333
01:09:04,723 --> 01:09:07,643
Everybody. Normally,
in a moral world,

1334
01:09:07,726 --> 01:09:10,437
we forgive the people
who apologize,

1335
01:09:10,521 --> 01:09:13,023
and admit that
they did something wrong.

1336
01:09:13,816 --> 01:09:15,985
What's the criteria
people have to meet

1337
01:09:16,068 --> 01:09:18,737
-to go on your stage?
-No, I don't
have a standard.

1338
01:09:18,821 --> 01:09:21,031
Right now,
it's a case-by-case basis,

1339
01:09:21,115 --> 01:09:23,325
and I can't imagine
every situation

1340
01:09:23,409 --> 01:09:24,994
that might come before me.

1341
01:09:25,077 --> 01:09:26,912
I don't mind living and dying

1342
01:09:26,996 --> 01:09:28,539
based on what
the audience feels.

1343
01:09:28,622 --> 01:09:30,291
But, the people
who are saying

1344
01:09:30,374 --> 01:09:31,959
that Louis shall not work,

1345
01:09:32,042 --> 01:09:34,086
they need to be
questioned more closely,

1346
01:09:34,170 --> 01:09:36,213
-as to where
they draw the line.
-Mm-hm.

1347
01:09:36,297 --> 01:09:38,632
What's their world view?
What are their standards?

1348
01:09:38,716 --> 01:09:41,051
How much evidence
do they think is enough?

1349
01:09:41,135 --> 01:09:44,054
How long is enough?
How long should somebody
go without working?

1350
01:09:44,138 --> 01:09:46,265
What should they do
when they're not working?

1351
01:09:46,348 --> 01:09:48,142
Should they become
wards of the state?

1352
01:09:48,225 --> 01:09:50,186
Can they do some jobs,
but not other jobs?

1353
01:09:50,269 --> 01:09:52,855
Is it OK for Walmart
to hire Louis?

1354
01:09:52,938 --> 01:09:55,983
Or is he so radioactive
that nobody shall hire him?

1355
01:09:56,066 --> 01:09:58,235
These are
the tough questions.

1356
01:09:58,319 --> 01:10:01,238
These decisions have meaning,
whether we like it or not,

1357
01:10:01,322 --> 01:10:04,533
whether you like it or not,
the decision to have
Louis C.K. on stage,

1358
01:10:04,617 --> 01:10:06,452
it has meaning.

1359
01:10:06,535 --> 01:10:08,871
And how much you,
and the rest of us,

1360
01:10:08,954 --> 01:10:10,456
have to come to terms
with that.

1361
01:10:10,956 --> 01:10:13,751
You can feel whatever you want
about these things,

1362
01:10:13,834 --> 01:10:16,003
but the idea that
you have the right

1363
01:10:16,086 --> 01:10:19,924
to impose on
a private business,

1364
01:10:20,007 --> 01:10:22,009
who's employing
a free person...

1365
01:10:22,718 --> 01:10:25,846
...to perform in front of
people who want to see him,

1366
01:10:25,930 --> 01:10:27,389
in a free country,

1367
01:10:28,265 --> 01:10:33,687
that you feel that
this is your business...

1368
01:10:34,939 --> 01:10:36,774
I think that's very,
very dangerous.

1369
01:10:37,399 --> 01:10:41,737
And that is where
I was really drawing my line.

1370
01:10:45,658 --> 01:10:47,243
People were tweeting me,

1371
01:10:47,326 --> 01:10:50,037
demanding that I didn't
perform at the Cellar,

1372
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,248
because Louis
was performing there.

1373
01:10:52,331 --> 01:10:53,958
I was like, "How, um, awesome,

1374
01:10:54,041 --> 01:10:56,919
"for you to be able
to make me the bad guy,

1375
01:10:57,002 --> 01:10:59,171
"and how often
does that happen,

1376
01:10:59,255 --> 01:11:00,881
"when you try to make women

1377
01:11:00,965 --> 01:11:03,175
"responsible for
the behaviors of men?"

1378
01:11:03,259 --> 01:11:05,219
Why can't we just
let Louis go back to...

1379
01:11:06,011 --> 01:11:10,182
...writing jokes about how
men are the gravest threat

1380
01:11:10,266 --> 01:11:11,976
to the safety of women.

1381
01:11:14,144 --> 01:11:15,688
But, he doesn't
just write jokes,

1382
01:11:15,771 --> 01:11:17,022
he walks the walk!

1383
01:11:19,149 --> 01:11:21,277
And I think that
is to be commended.

1384
01:11:22,319 --> 01:11:24,321
He's a performance artist.

1385
01:11:26,824 --> 01:11:28,826
So, he steps back,
for nine months,

1386
01:11:28,909 --> 01:11:30,869
or whatever it was,
and people are saying,

1387
01:11:30,953 --> 01:11:33,247
"That's not long enough.
You didn't do anything."

1388
01:11:33,330 --> 01:11:34,832
Like, you gotta...

1389
01:11:34,915 --> 01:11:37,251
So, what-- what should
someone do?

1390
01:11:38,794 --> 01:11:42,089
I wrote a tweet thread.
It started by me going,

1391
01:11:42,172 --> 01:11:44,008
"I know I'll take
some heat for this,

1392
01:11:44,091 --> 01:11:46,969
"but I feel this
is a conversation
that needs to happen.

1393
01:11:47,052 --> 01:11:51,557
"There's gonna be other men
who experience these problems,

1394
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,185
"and what is the path forward
for them?

1395
01:11:55,269 --> 01:11:57,688
"Louis is right now
on the vanguard of this,

1396
01:11:57,771 --> 01:11:59,982
"and I'm--" I think I said,

1397
01:12:00,065 --> 01:12:02,526
"I'm excited to see
how he does it."

1398
01:12:04,611 --> 01:12:07,906
The pushback that I got
from that immediately,

1399
01:12:07,990 --> 01:12:09,158
was overwhelming.

1400
01:12:10,576 --> 01:12:12,411
And I felt horrible.

1401
01:12:13,329 --> 01:12:15,831
I was like, "I'm not defending
Louis's actions.

1402
01:12:15,914 --> 01:12:18,167
"I'm having, in public.
a conversation

1403
01:12:18,250 --> 01:12:20,836
"that I feel like men are
having in private, and women,

1404
01:12:20,919 --> 01:12:23,130
"are having in private,
all over this country."

1405
01:12:23,213 --> 01:12:25,466
And saying, "How do--
How do we deal with this?

1406
01:12:25,549 --> 01:12:27,301
"How do we deal with this?

1407
01:12:27,384 --> 01:12:29,178
"How do we welcome
people back,

1408
01:12:29,261 --> 01:12:30,721
"or not welcome people back?"

1409
01:12:31,263 --> 01:12:35,059
I apologized,
and what I apologized for,

1410
01:12:35,142 --> 01:12:41,357
was not acknowledging
the pain around Louis

1411
01:12:41,440 --> 01:12:42,858
is real for people.

1412
01:12:43,650 --> 01:12:46,737
And there's obviously
hypocrisy coming
from Louis, himself.

1413
01:12:47,488 --> 01:12:49,865
Like, I lost
so much fucking money...

1414
01:12:50,699 --> 01:12:53,494
..in a day.
In one day, I lost,

1415
01:12:53,577 --> 01:12:56,580
I'm not gonna tell you
how much, but it was
millions of dollars.

1416
01:12:57,247 --> 01:12:59,666
It was $35M,
I don't give a fuck, fuck it.

1417
01:12:59,750 --> 01:13:02,669
-I'll tell you I lost $35M.

1418
01:13:02,753 --> 01:13:04,963
You don't tell people
you have $35M,

1419
01:13:05,047 --> 01:13:07,716
but you can tell 'em
you lost $35M,

1420
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:09,760
because that shit
is hilarious!

1421
01:13:09,843 --> 01:13:11,428
That's fucking funny.

1422
01:13:12,846 --> 01:13:15,599
He started to do more touring,

1423
01:13:15,682 --> 01:13:17,393
and they started to sell out.

1424
01:13:17,476 --> 01:13:19,645
I just love comedy.
I saw Louis C.K.

1425
01:13:19,728 --> 01:13:21,897
-in Toronto last week.
-Oh, yeah!

1426
01:13:21,980 --> 01:13:24,608
I heard about that,
it came out of nowhere,
how was that?

1427
01:13:24,691 --> 01:13:26,693
There were protestors,
it was fucking nuts.

1428
01:13:26,777 --> 01:13:28,362
-Seriously?
-Yeah, fuck all that.

1429
01:13:28,445 --> 01:13:30,656
He talked about, uh,
the jerking off thing

1430
01:13:30,739 --> 01:13:33,325
-for, like, 30 minutes,
it was hilarious.
-Don't spoil it,

1431
01:13:33,409 --> 01:13:35,536
'cause I really wanna
see when it's finished.

1432
01:13:35,619 --> 01:13:37,871
It was really funny, though.
He's probably gonna

1433
01:13:37,955 --> 01:13:39,998
-release, like, an hour set.
-Pretty soon.

1434
01:13:40,082 --> 01:13:42,251
-It's gonna be
the biggest comeback.
-Super dope.

1435
01:13:43,419 --> 01:13:46,088
How are you?
How was your last
couple of years?

1436
01:13:46,171 --> 01:13:48,215
How was...

1437
01:13:51,093 --> 01:13:54,263
How was 2018
and '19 for you guys?

1438
01:13:58,559 --> 01:14:00,853
Anybody else get in
global amounts of trouble?

1439
01:14:00,936 --> 01:14:03,272
Anybody else...

1440
01:14:03,355 --> 01:14:05,983
I was, sort of,
seduced into thinking that,

1441
01:14:06,066 --> 01:14:08,652
he could take a thing
that he knew as an artist

1442
01:14:08,735 --> 01:14:12,156
he was doing as a person,
and use that...

1443
01:14:12,865 --> 01:14:14,908
...in the art, in some way,

1444
01:14:14,992 --> 01:14:17,870
to create his own reckoning
with his behavior.

1445
01:14:17,953 --> 01:14:20,414
You wanna talk about it?
Should we talk about it?

1446
01:14:20,497 --> 01:14:22,875
Yeah, alright. Alright.

1447
01:14:22,958 --> 01:14:25,252
I don't mind-- I don't
mind talking about it.

1448
01:14:25,335 --> 01:14:26,962
If you ever ask somebody...

1449
01:14:27,921 --> 01:14:31,008
..."May I jerk off
in front of you?"

1450
01:14:31,091 --> 01:14:32,426
And they say, "Yes."

1451
01:14:32,509 --> 01:14:34,428
Just say, "Are you sure?"

1452
01:14:34,511 --> 01:14:36,597
That's the first part.

1453
01:14:37,222 --> 01:14:40,225
And then if they say yes,
just don't fucking do it.

1454
01:14:40,309 --> 01:14:43,312
Just-- just don't do it.

1455
01:14:44,605 --> 01:14:46,231
Wait, what?

1456
01:14:46,315 --> 01:14:48,692
It was different
than what his apology was.

1457
01:14:48,775 --> 01:14:50,360
He framed it as a kink.

1458
01:14:50,444 --> 01:14:51,987
You can't be
the smart-guy comic

1459
01:14:52,070 --> 01:14:54,239
and be this stupid,
you don't get both.

1460
01:14:54,323 --> 01:14:55,782
You all have your thing.

1461
01:14:55,866 --> 01:14:57,659
I don't know
what your thing is.

1462
01:14:57,743 --> 01:14:59,661
You're so fucking lucky
that I don't know

1463
01:14:59,745 --> 01:15:01,205
what your thing is.

1464
01:15:01,288 --> 01:15:03,040
'Cause everybody
knows my thing.

1465
01:15:04,374 --> 01:15:06,835
Everybody knows
my fucking thing, now.

1466
01:15:08,003 --> 01:15:10,672
Obama knows my thing,
do you understand...

1467
01:15:10,756 --> 01:15:13,342
...how that feels?

1468
01:15:14,885 --> 01:15:16,762
He never talked about
the repercussions

1469
01:15:16,845 --> 01:15:18,764
for the women,
but he talked a lot

1470
01:15:18,847 --> 01:15:20,516
about the repercussions
for himself.

1471
01:15:20,599 --> 01:15:22,559
"Now, the whole world knows

1472
01:15:22,643 --> 01:15:24,978
"my weird sexual hang-up."

1473
01:15:25,062 --> 01:15:27,189
I like jerking off,
I don't like being alone,

1474
01:15:27,272 --> 01:15:28,941
that's all I can
tell ya', alright?

1475
01:15:29,024 --> 01:15:30,984
I get lonely.
"Where is everyone?"

1476
01:15:31,068 --> 01:15:34,112
It's just sad,
I-- I like company.

1477
01:15:34,196 --> 01:15:36,907
I like to share,
I'm good at it, too.

1478
01:15:36,990 --> 01:15:40,118
If you're good at juggling,
you wouldn't do it
alone in the dark,

1479
01:15:40,202 --> 01:15:43,330
you would gather folks
and amaze them.

1480
01:15:46,667 --> 01:15:47,501
Woo!

1481
01:15:48,752 --> 01:15:51,088
Anyway, that's all I'm gonna
say about that shit.

1482
01:15:56,510 --> 01:16:00,514
I think it was like
an "Emperor has no clothes,"
sort of situation.

1483
01:16:00,597 --> 01:16:02,641
He came back,
he learned nothing.

1484
01:16:02,724 --> 01:16:06,186
He didn't say anything
profound about the experience.

1485
01:16:06,270 --> 01:16:09,690
There is this
defensiveness around

1486
01:16:09,773 --> 01:16:11,900
and, in some cases,
to it now, right?

1487
01:16:11,984 --> 01:16:13,652
What he will not
be addressing.

1488
01:16:13,735 --> 01:16:15,737
I don't know
if that's his best mode.

1489
01:16:15,821 --> 01:16:17,906
It's the opposite
of what made him famous,

1490
01:16:17,990 --> 01:16:19,616
and what made him
a great comedian.

1491
01:16:20,534 --> 01:16:22,286
Louis had a whole bit about

1492
01:16:22,369 --> 01:16:24,788
how the greatest threat
to women is men, you know?

1493
01:16:25,872 --> 01:16:27,791
Louis could still
do that bit and say,

1494
01:16:27,874 --> 01:16:29,334
"And I was one of
those guys...

1495
01:16:30,669 --> 01:16:32,170
"...and let me talk about it."

1496
01:16:32,879 --> 01:16:35,007
And it feels like such
a missed opportunity

1497
01:16:35,090 --> 01:16:36,633
that he didn't do it.

1498
01:16:37,301 --> 01:16:39,469
For the times
he was willing to tell us

1499
01:16:39,553 --> 01:16:42,139
everything about who he was,
and about his foibles,

1500
01:16:42,222 --> 01:16:44,224
there was still
this one part of himself

1501
01:16:44,308 --> 01:16:46,977
that he was holding back,
and, you know,

1502
01:16:47,060 --> 01:16:49,271
that goes back
to the discussion of,

1503
01:16:49,354 --> 01:16:51,106
"Is a comedian
just a joke teller,

1504
01:16:51,189 --> 01:16:52,608
"or are they a truth teller?"

1505
01:16:52,691 --> 01:16:54,568
Are the jokes supposed
to be the truth,

1506
01:16:54,651 --> 01:16:56,153
or are the jokes just jokes?

1507
01:17:10,083 --> 01:17:12,377
He called
his next special, "Sorry."

1508
01:17:12,961 --> 01:17:15,213
It's just such a big
middle finger, you know?

1509
01:17:15,297 --> 01:17:17,466
And it's like,
who are you really

1510
01:17:17,549 --> 01:17:18,967
giving that middle finger to?

1511
01:17:19,885 --> 01:17:22,179
You're pissed at
all the people who got
mad at you

1512
01:17:22,262 --> 01:17:24,681
for jerking off in front
of people? Like, why?

1513
01:17:24,765 --> 01:17:26,183
Why are you mad at them?

1514
01:17:26,266 --> 01:17:28,352
Michael Jackson.
Wonderful music.

1515
01:17:28,435 --> 01:17:30,228
Blessed us with
wonderful music,

1516
01:17:30,312 --> 01:17:33,148
did some other things, too.

1517
01:17:33,231 --> 01:17:36,610
What-- Look, what's worse?
A pedophile who makes
beautiful music,

1518
01:17:36,693 --> 01:17:39,112
or one that doesn't?

1519
01:17:39,988 --> 01:17:41,990
This is the choices.

1520
01:17:44,368 --> 01:17:46,787
"No pedophiles"
is not on the menu.

1521
01:17:49,373 --> 01:17:52,751
We simultaneously
want too much of our artists,

1522
01:17:52,834 --> 01:17:55,170
but they also
want too much from us,

1523
01:17:55,253 --> 01:17:56,755
in some ways.

1524
01:17:56,838 --> 01:17:59,716
They want to
be thought of only

1525
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,302
as these people who
make things, even though,

1526
01:18:02,386 --> 01:18:06,682
the thing they make
is entirely predicated
on what people they are.

1527
01:18:06,765 --> 01:18:09,142
What kind of person they are.

1528
01:18:09,226 --> 01:18:11,019
"Sorry" was like...

1529
01:18:11,103 --> 01:18:13,939
You just see a man that's,
like, zero fucks given.

1530
01:18:14,022 --> 01:18:16,400
Do you feel like...
Do you feel like...

1531
01:18:16,483 --> 01:18:18,360
...because of
what you've endured,

1532
01:18:18,443 --> 01:18:20,445
you transcended
giving a fuck?

1533
01:18:20,529 --> 01:18:23,281
This is the way I look
at my life before,

1534
01:18:23,365 --> 01:18:26,910
was that I just
didn't think there was
danger in the world, somehow.

1535
01:18:26,993 --> 01:18:29,287
So, now I do, and that's
changed me a little bit.

1536
01:18:29,371 --> 01:18:32,457
So, that's the opposite of
"no fucks given," in a sense,

1537
01:18:32,541 --> 01:18:34,960
but that's more about
the way I live my life,

1538
01:18:35,043 --> 01:18:37,671
and the way I plan my life,
now, but on stage,

1539
01:18:37,754 --> 01:18:39,965
that's holy,
that's a holy place for me.

1540
01:18:40,048 --> 01:18:41,550
And I do think
I got that back.

1541
01:18:54,187 --> 01:18:57,357
I love that you've made
this return,

1542
01:18:57,441 --> 01:19:00,277
and then, you know,
you experienced
a bunch of resistance,

1543
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:02,571
but now it's kind of gone,
you know?

1544
01:19:02,654 --> 01:19:05,741
-Yeah, just, like,
just keep doing it.
-Yeah, and now,

1545
01:19:05,824 --> 01:19:08,952
you're-- you're doing
shit that's really
being recognized.

1546
01:19:09,035 --> 01:19:11,371
-Like, you won
a fucking Emmy.
-Well, a GRAMMY.

1547
01:19:11,455 --> 01:19:13,874
-I won a GRAMMY
since I came back.
-A GRAMMY, rather.

1548
01:19:13,957 --> 01:19:15,167
-It's nice!
-That's amazing!

1549
01:19:18,295 --> 01:19:21,423
Did the GRAMMYs snub
the cancel culture club?

1550
01:19:21,506 --> 01:19:24,509
It's ironic that the
term "Cancel culture,"

1551
01:19:24,593 --> 01:19:26,928
which is reductive
and stupid and misused,

1552
01:19:27,012 --> 01:19:30,390
is applied to a lot of people
who have flourishing careers.

1553
01:19:30,474 --> 01:19:33,268
Like, these people are, like,
they're all fine.

1554
01:19:34,186 --> 01:19:37,439
Louis won the GRAMMY
for best comedy album,

1555
01:19:37,522 --> 01:19:40,609
and that album was the album
he did where he's like,

1556
01:19:40,692 --> 01:19:43,653
"I asked everyone's consent
and they said, 'yes',"
and I was like,

1557
01:19:43,737 --> 01:19:46,156
"What are the fucking
odds?" You know?

1558
01:19:46,239 --> 01:19:48,325
I believe he won
the GRAMMY award,

1559
01:19:48,408 --> 01:19:50,035
because it's a secret ballot.

1560
01:19:50,994 --> 01:19:54,080
There is no way that
the people who voted for him

1561
01:19:54,164 --> 01:19:56,458
to win that GRAMMY
would've done so,

1562
01:19:56,541 --> 01:19:58,502
if it was gonna be reported
in the papers,

1563
01:19:58,585 --> 01:20:00,837
their names,
as having voted for Louis C.K.

1564
01:20:00,921 --> 01:20:02,839
How good did that GRAMMY feel?

1565
01:20:02,923 --> 01:20:04,758
It was nice!
When I used to win awards,

1566
01:20:04,841 --> 01:20:07,427
I just found it awkward,
I didn't really care about it,

1567
01:20:07,511 --> 01:20:09,554
-but this one was--
it was very nice.
-I bet!

1568
01:20:10,180 --> 01:20:13,475
Didn't Dave Chappelle
win awards for calling
one of Louis C.K. accusers

1569
01:20:13,558 --> 01:20:15,101
a "brittle-ass spirit?"

1570
01:20:15,185 --> 01:20:16,937
Making fun of the victims
is still...

1571
01:20:18,104 --> 01:20:19,397
...good for business.

1572
01:20:20,357 --> 01:20:22,275
Thank you for
coming tonight

1573
01:20:22,359 --> 01:20:25,737
to the world premiere
of Fourth of July.

1574
01:20:25,821 --> 01:20:28,198
Enjoy the movie, hang out
for the talk afterwards,

1575
01:20:28,281 --> 01:20:30,742
I hope you like it, thank you
very much for coming.

1576
01:20:30,826 --> 01:20:31,743
Goodnight!

1577
01:20:32,786 --> 01:20:35,747
I think it is
somewhat unprecedented

1578
01:20:35,831 --> 01:20:40,377
just how much he has
been able to restore

1579
01:20:40,460 --> 01:20:43,463
elements of
his pre-2017 success.

1580
01:20:45,423 --> 01:20:49,094
I don't think he was
intentionally trying
to cancel-proof himself

1581
01:20:49,177 --> 01:20:52,597
when he was distributing
his own stand-up specials,

1582
01:20:52,681 --> 01:20:55,392
or self-financing
his own TV series,

1583
01:20:55,475 --> 01:20:59,312
but it's been fascinating
to watch the culture,

1584
01:20:59,396 --> 01:21:01,022
kind of, catch up with that.

1585
01:21:01,106 --> 01:21:03,692
Louis C.K.,
go get everything he has.

1586
01:21:03,775 --> 01:21:05,235
LouisCK.com. Go to my website,

1587
01:21:05,318 --> 01:21:06,903
otherwise I can't
do this anymore.

1588
01:21:06,987 --> 01:21:08,572
There's no other
stream of income,

1589
01:21:08,655 --> 01:21:10,156
except my own industry.

1590
01:21:10,699 --> 01:21:13,159
You know, Louis
is not on the Tonight Show,

1591
01:21:13,243 --> 01:21:15,370
he's not on TV and Netflix.

1592
01:21:15,453 --> 01:21:18,832
He created his own thing
outside of the business.

1593
01:21:18,915 --> 01:21:21,626
The people who love
Louis C.K. are still there.

1594
01:21:23,003 --> 01:21:26,339
I have never asked
anyone to denounce him,

1595
01:21:26,423 --> 01:21:28,508
say he shouldn't work,
I've just said,

1596
01:21:28,592 --> 01:21:31,887
when you see women that
are hurting and feel
like they're crazy,

1597
01:21:31,970 --> 01:21:35,348
because everyone's letting
all these predators back,

1598
01:21:35,432 --> 01:21:37,225
while some people
never had a chance,

1599
01:21:37,309 --> 01:21:39,603
it really hurts, especially...

1600
01:21:40,562 --> 01:21:43,356
...in this culture,
where it just seems
like nobody cares.

1601
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:45,609
Ladies and gentlemen,
Louis C.K.

1602
01:21:50,238 --> 01:21:51,823
For all the fans
he's lost,

1603
01:21:51,907 --> 01:21:54,159
he's able to gain these
new ones who don't care.

1604
01:21:55,577 --> 01:21:56,828
Maybe, they never cared.

1605
01:21:58,121 --> 01:22:00,123
But, now they see him
as someone

1606
01:22:00,206 --> 01:22:04,085
who's waving the banner
for people who don't care.

1607
01:22:04,169 --> 01:22:06,713
You're doing Madison
Square Garden in the round.

1608
01:22:06,796 --> 01:22:10,050
Yeah, so I, uh-- so,
I'm doing it on January 28th,

1609
01:22:10,133 --> 01:22:13,970
and I'm going to, uh,
livestream it on my website.

1610
01:22:14,054 --> 01:22:16,890
It's also expensive,
it's an expensive place.

1611
01:22:16,973 --> 01:22:20,060
-Renting it is about 400,000?
-Something like that,
yeah, I forget.

1612
01:22:20,143 --> 01:22:22,395
-To just rent it.
-Yeah, it's astronomical.

1613
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:25,106
They know they got you,
'cause you wanna
play the Garden.

1614
01:22:29,444 --> 01:22:31,029
I mean, he's back, you know,

1615
01:22:31,112 --> 01:22:32,781
and, like,
we all make mistakes.

1616
01:22:32,864 --> 01:22:35,450
You know what, I don't mind,
whatever, you know?

1617
01:22:35,533 --> 01:22:38,620
I'm more or less looking
more to give someone
a second chance.

1618
01:22:38,703 --> 01:22:41,164
I feel kinda mad at him,
'cause I think it took away

1619
01:22:41,247 --> 01:22:43,333
-from what he could
have accomplished...
-Yeah.

1620
01:22:43,416 --> 01:22:45,251
...as far as
his television shows,

1621
01:22:45,335 --> 01:22:47,003
he had movies
that were coming out,

1622
01:22:47,087 --> 01:22:49,047
where could've been iconic.

1623
01:22:49,130 --> 01:22:51,299
I'm glad he came back,
just as he should have.

1624
01:22:51,383 --> 01:22:53,635
There's no reason why
he should've stayed quiet,

1625
01:22:53,718 --> 01:22:55,804
why he should've just
disappeared forever.

1626
01:22:55,887 --> 01:22:58,098
I'm very glad you're here.
I'm really grateful.

1627
01:22:58,181 --> 01:23:01,935
I know that, uh, it's not easy
being my fan, these days.

1628
01:23:02,018 --> 01:23:03,812
Uh...

1629
01:23:03,895 --> 01:23:07,983
I know that, uh,
all of you have one person

1630
01:23:08,066 --> 01:23:09,526
who doesn't know you're here.

1631
01:23:13,029 --> 01:23:14,572
There is that one person.

1632
01:23:15,365 --> 01:23:18,576
You know, I think
everybody lives with
a certain amount of hypocrisy,

1633
01:23:18,660 --> 01:23:21,830
and this is the amount that
I've allocated for myself.

1634
01:23:23,915 --> 01:23:26,793
We all have to draw a line.
This is one of
my favorite things

1635
01:23:26,876 --> 01:23:29,004
that John Oliver says.
People will often say,

1636
01:23:29,087 --> 01:23:31,673
"Where do you draw the line?"
Can't listen to R. Kelly,

1637
01:23:31,756 --> 01:23:33,967
we can't do that,
where do you draw the line?

1638
01:23:34,050 --> 01:23:36,302
Somewhere.
You draw it somewhere.

1639
01:23:36,386 --> 01:23:39,222
You have to draw it somewhere,
like, you can't have no line.

1640
01:23:39,305 --> 01:23:41,266
And maybe, tomorrow,

1641
01:23:41,349 --> 01:23:43,143
I will get a new
piece of information.

1642
01:23:43,226 --> 01:23:45,270
And I will have to
erase that line,

1643
01:23:45,353 --> 01:23:47,647
and I will have to
draw it somewhere else.

1644
01:23:47,731 --> 01:23:49,774
The sort of ability
to speculate about

1645
01:23:49,858 --> 01:23:53,194
what all could have happened
to the many, many, many,

1646
01:23:53,278 --> 01:23:56,948
many people who have suffered
at the hands of these men,

1647
01:23:57,032 --> 01:24:00,952
is long, and the longer
you think about it,

1648
01:24:01,745 --> 01:24:05,582
the harder it is to--
to really care

1649
01:24:05,665 --> 01:24:07,876
what art these men make.

1650
01:24:07,959 --> 01:24:10,920
Because there's a bunch
of artists who didn't
get to do anything

1651
01:24:11,004 --> 01:24:13,423
as a result of, either,
the incident having happened,

1652
01:24:13,506 --> 01:24:15,258
and they've got
a lot of PTSD over it,

1653
01:24:15,341 --> 01:24:17,802
or they were literally
not hired,

1654
01:24:17,886 --> 01:24:21,681
because they were
prevented from getting jobs.

1655
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:24,893
Cancel culture, for me, was...

1656
01:24:24,976 --> 01:24:27,562
It was all a ruse,
you know, like,

1657
01:24:27,645 --> 01:24:32,567
homophobia, transphobia,
racism, misogyny,

1658
01:24:32,650 --> 01:24:35,653
none of it went away,
it's still here today, right?

1659
01:24:35,737 --> 01:24:38,448
People are making money,
money, money, right now,

1660
01:24:38,531 --> 01:24:41,201
doing it,
so what's the cancel culture?

1661
01:24:41,284 --> 01:24:42,494
Tell me what happened.

1662
01:24:47,082 --> 01:24:49,626
Since I gave up
on the entertainment industry,

1663
01:24:49,709 --> 01:24:53,171
I pretty much only make money
selling garbage on eBay.

1664
01:24:53,254 --> 01:24:57,175
Um, and by garbage, I mean,
like, shit people don't want.

1665
01:24:57,258 --> 01:24:58,760
If you wanna
make money on eBay,

1666
01:24:58,843 --> 01:25:00,929
and you wanna
do it fast, spanks.

1667
01:25:01,012 --> 01:25:03,389
Because, as long as women

1668
01:25:03,473 --> 01:25:05,391
are, you know,
capable of self-loathing,

1669
01:25:05,475 --> 01:25:07,811
which will be
until earth ends,

1670
01:25:07,894 --> 01:25:09,687
they're buying spanks
left and right,

1671
01:25:09,771 --> 01:25:11,940
all day,
every fucking day, dude.

1672
01:25:15,401 --> 01:25:18,321
It's hard
to draw a line, I think.

1673
01:25:18,404 --> 01:25:21,032
That's what makes it easy
for people to be like,

1674
01:25:21,116 --> 01:25:22,742
"Well, I'm not doing
anything bad,

1675
01:25:22,826 --> 01:25:24,869
"and this person's
not doing anything bad."

1676
01:25:24,953 --> 01:25:27,539
But then, to kind of,
like, stop there.

1677
01:25:27,622 --> 01:25:30,416
And I think Meg
is someone that's, uh,

1678
01:25:30,500 --> 01:25:32,877
so moral,
she won't work with anyone.

1679
01:25:35,797 --> 01:25:38,800
Meg has so much integrity,
she hasn't worked in a year.

1680
01:25:42,679 --> 01:25:46,224
But at the end of the day,
I don't wanna participate
with the sort of people

1681
01:25:46,307 --> 01:25:50,353
who are willing to just
blindly ignore their morality.

1682
01:25:50,436 --> 01:25:54,232
So, that's why I sell shit
on eBay for a living,

1683
01:25:54,315 --> 01:25:57,944
and occasionally do comedy,
when people will let me,

1684
01:25:58,027 --> 01:26:00,780
because I refuse to fucking
participate in this shit.

1685
01:26:01,197 --> 01:26:04,909
This is my quick story
about the wonderful time

1686
01:26:04,993 --> 01:26:08,329
that the very thoughtful,
Louis C.K., asked my consent.

1687
01:26:10,582 --> 01:26:12,250
I get emotional
thinking about it,

1688
01:26:12,333 --> 01:26:13,918
because it was
so sweet of him.

1689
01:26:16,963 --> 01:26:18,756
When you say anything,
as a woman...

1690
01:26:20,175 --> 01:26:22,719
...it is the scarlet letter,
right? It just becomes

1691
01:26:22,802 --> 01:26:25,680
who I am, no matter
how hard I try to fight it,

1692
01:26:25,763 --> 01:26:28,600
and what I'm told is,
"You shouldn't have
said anything."

1693
01:26:28,683 --> 01:26:30,768
I thought that could
just be one part of me,

1694
01:26:30,852 --> 01:26:32,896
I do this, I do that,
I might tell everyone

1695
01:26:32,979 --> 01:26:35,190
if someone showed
me their dick, then I do this,

1696
01:26:35,273 --> 01:26:37,859
someone else showed
me their dick,
I might mention it.

1697
01:26:37,942 --> 01:26:39,569
I'm a well-rounded person.

1698
01:26:39,652 --> 01:26:41,529
And I'm talking about this,

1699
01:26:41,613 --> 01:26:43,656
literally almost
20 years later.

1700
01:26:43,740 --> 01:26:45,992
Why am I talking about it?
I don't fucking know.

1701
01:26:46,659 --> 01:26:49,996
I don't want-- I'd literally
be happy if I never
thought about it again.

1702
01:26:50,663 --> 01:26:54,125
Um, but I guess,
because culturally,

1703
01:26:54,209 --> 01:26:56,753
something hasn't changed,
so here I go with my story.

1704
01:26:57,629 --> 01:27:00,048
I always put it this way.
For women in comedy,

1705
01:27:00,131 --> 01:27:01,716
there's always
a threat of rain,

1706
01:27:01,799 --> 01:27:03,718
so we carry
an umbrella everywhere,

1707
01:27:03,801 --> 01:27:06,429
and men walk out
the door and assume
it's gonna be sunny.

1708
01:27:06,512 --> 01:27:08,681
We always have to think
of something, be aware

1709
01:27:08,765 --> 01:27:10,934
that the men that
work with us might be

1710
01:27:11,017 --> 01:27:12,727
trying to get
something out of us.

1711
01:27:12,810 --> 01:27:15,813
It just changes things enough,
that it taints...

1712
01:27:15,897 --> 01:27:17,982
...your experience.

1713
01:27:18,066 --> 01:27:20,026
Um, I said "taint,"
that's why I stopped.

1714
01:27:25,031 --> 01:27:26,532
I don't regret doing it.

1715
01:27:27,325 --> 01:27:28,952
At least I've gotten
to that point.

1716
01:27:29,494 --> 01:27:32,664
People were coming forward
to let people know

1717
01:27:32,747 --> 01:27:35,083
who people are dealing with,
and not keep it quiet

1718
01:27:35,166 --> 01:27:37,085
and put other people
in those situations,

1719
01:27:37,168 --> 01:27:39,128
was, for me, why you did it.

1720
01:27:40,838 --> 01:27:43,216
But, it's bigger
than you imagine.

1721
01:27:43,299 --> 01:27:46,594
It's loud, it's hard,
and you just have to manage,

1722
01:27:46,678 --> 01:27:48,846
after that,
however best you can.

1723
01:27:51,432 --> 01:27:54,143
After the Louis article
came out,

1724
01:27:54,227 --> 01:27:56,813
and Chapelle made fun of me,

1725
01:27:56,896 --> 01:28:00,984
I thought, "Ooh, I need to
start expressing myself."

1726
01:28:02,485 --> 01:28:03,987
I need a voice,

1727
01:28:04,070 --> 01:28:06,823
and I can't do this
with solo shows.

1728
01:28:08,574 --> 01:28:11,619
And so, I started
doing stand-up in 2018.

1729
01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:15,331
And the same stuff
that can take you down,

1730
01:28:15,415 --> 01:28:18,710
can be the same stuff that's
a rise for the next thing.

1731
01:28:18,793 --> 01:28:21,796
Wow, can you believe it?
It's March 4th!

1732
01:28:21,879 --> 01:28:24,716
March 4th!

1733
01:28:25,633 --> 01:28:29,095
And Dave, I feel like I would
say something if I saw him.

1734
01:28:29,178 --> 01:28:32,432
I'd like to say,
"I'm the person that
you made a comment about.

1735
01:28:32,515 --> 01:28:33,933
"I'm the brittle-ass spirit."