1 00:00:06,383 --> 00:00:08,385 [crowd clamoring] 2 00:00:17,185 --> 00:00:19,145 [reporter 1] Right now, I would say there's about 500 people 3 00:00:19,145 --> 00:00:22,065 standing around, and they have strange looks on their faces. 4 00:00:22,065 --> 00:00:25,277 It's a look of-- I don't know, it's hard to describe. 5 00:00:25,277 --> 00:00:26,903 They seem to be in a daze. 6 00:00:26,903 --> 00:00:28,863 They just can't believe John Lennon is dead. 7 00:00:28,863 --> 00:00:32,116 [reporter 2] It was a somber crowd. They had not come to socialize. 8 00:00:32,116 --> 00:00:33,618 They'd come to mourn. 9 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:37,455 John Lennon's wife, Yoko Ono, had asked that the singer's death... 10 00:00:39,082 --> 00:00:41,042 {\an8}[interviewee] In the morning after John died, 11 00:00:42,335 --> 00:00:43,920 {\an8}I went through the gate, 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,715 and there was a police yellow tape 13 00:00:46,715 --> 00:00:49,134 around the driveway area. 14 00:00:50,135 --> 00:00:53,054 And there was broken glass on the ground. 15 00:00:54,681 --> 00:00:57,893 And John's blood on the, uh, sidewalk, 16 00:00:59,519 --> 00:01:03,356 {\an8}and I had to step over that to enter the building. 17 00:01:05,567 --> 00:01:07,277 Yoko was barely there. 18 00:01:07,986 --> 00:01:12,365 She stared at the television for a while, although the sound was off. 19 00:01:12,365 --> 00:01:16,953 It was only showing one thing over and over and over again. 20 00:01:17,829 --> 00:01:23,460 We heard the singing from downstairs, although we were on the top floor. 21 00:01:24,211 --> 00:01:26,213 We heard it very, very clearly. 22 00:01:28,298 --> 00:01:32,719 And then she looked at me and said, "Why would that man do that?" 23 00:02:39,035 --> 00:02:41,663 Yes. Uh, I'm the chief of detectives, James T. Sullivan, 24 00:02:42,205 --> 00:02:44,040 New York City Police Department. 25 00:02:46,751 --> 00:02:48,336 We asked you to come here to, uh, 26 00:02:48,336 --> 00:02:50,547 give you a briefing on what we know at this point 27 00:02:51,089 --> 00:02:53,174 and what has... [stammers] ...occurred at this point 28 00:02:53,174 --> 00:02:55,802 regarding the homicide of John Lennon. 29 00:02:56,553 --> 00:02:59,723 We have arrested Mark David Chapman 30 00:03:00,390 --> 00:03:05,520 of 55 South Kukui-- K-U-K-U-I-- Street, 31 00:03:06,187 --> 00:03:09,816 Hawaii, for the homicide of John Lennon. 32 00:03:09,816 --> 00:03:12,152 [journalist 1] Does he have a history of psychiatric care? 33 00:03:12,152 --> 00:03:13,570 [Sullivan] We don't know that at this point. 34 00:03:13,570 --> 00:03:15,655 [journalist 2] How did he behave? Did he appear rational? 35 00:03:16,656 --> 00:03:19,576 - He behaved very calmly. - [journalist 3] Could you tell us where... 36 00:03:19,576 --> 00:03:21,953 - [journalist 2] But was rational? - ...Mr. Lennon was shot, please? 37 00:03:21,953 --> 00:03:24,205 Uh, there were th-- He was shot three ti-- Well, no. 38 00:03:24,205 --> 00:03:25,457 I can't say that he was shot. 39 00:03:25,457 --> 00:03:27,918 That will be determined by the medical examiner. 40 00:03:27,918 --> 00:03:30,795 But there are seven... [stammers] ...wounds. 41 00:03:32,339 --> 00:03:34,674 And they can be entries and exits, though. 42 00:03:35,550 --> 00:03:37,093 [journalist 4] How many shots was fired? 43 00:03:37,093 --> 00:03:39,304 The gun was empty. Five-- Five shots. 44 00:03:40,013 --> 00:03:41,932 [journalist 5] Did he give any reason? Any motive? 45 00:03:41,932 --> 00:03:43,225 No. 46 00:03:43,225 --> 00:03:45,143 - [officer 1] Okay. Thank you. - Thank you. 47 00:03:48,521 --> 00:03:50,148 {\an8}[Sutherland] The world's media have descended 48 00:03:50,148 --> 00:03:52,525 {\an8}on the New York Police Department's 20th Precinct. 49 00:03:52,525 --> 00:03:55,278 They're desperate to know more about the man 50 00:03:55,278 --> 00:03:57,739 who has just assassinated John Lennon. 51 00:03:57,739 --> 00:03:59,908 [journalist 6] Where had they been? Did they act together? 52 00:04:01,159 --> 00:04:02,160 Thank you, everyone. 53 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:03,995 [Sutherland] They're allowed to roam around, 54 00:04:03,995 --> 00:04:06,665 interviewing police dealing with the case. 55 00:04:06,665 --> 00:04:08,792 Can I get-- Just let me get this paperwork done. 56 00:04:08,792 --> 00:04:10,252 [NYPD officer] At the precinct... [stammers] 57 00:04:10,252 --> 00:04:13,630 ...I was surrounded by reporters 'cause everybody wanted to know. 58 00:04:13,630 --> 00:04:15,298 [journalist 7] How many times was he shot? 59 00:04:15,298 --> 00:04:17,425 [journalist 8] Was he unconscious? 60 00:04:17,425 --> 00:04:19,469 He was, uh-- As far as I know, he was unconscious. 61 00:04:19,469 --> 00:04:21,137 [journalist 9] Was he moaning, saying anything at all? 62 00:04:21,137 --> 00:04:22,305 - No. - And how about Yoko? 63 00:04:23,056 --> 00:04:25,016 She was hysterical. Hmm. Yeah. 64 00:04:25,016 --> 00:04:28,728 {\an8}It would be somebody from England, somebody from Germany, 65 00:04:29,229 --> 00:04:32,190 {\an8}I mean, just wanting to talk to me, you know, and-- 66 00:04:32,190 --> 00:04:36,820 This was such a major case that was heard around the world, 67 00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:39,155 and everybody wanted to know. 68 00:04:39,155 --> 00:04:41,157 What do we know about the suspect upstairs? 69 00:04:41,157 --> 00:04:42,993 - What're you being told? - I know nothing, man. 70 00:04:42,993 --> 00:04:45,328 [journalist 10] Where was he when you-- when you got there? 71 00:04:45,328 --> 00:04:47,330 - He was already in custody. - [journalist 11] Who's he being held by? 72 00:04:47,330 --> 00:04:48,999 He was being held by Police Officer Spiro. 73 00:04:48,999 --> 00:04:49,916 [journalists clamoring] 74 00:04:49,916 --> 00:04:51,918 [journalist 12] Have you got a description of the suspect, 75 00:04:51,918 --> 00:04:53,211 like a general description? 76 00:04:53,837 --> 00:04:58,675 [Palma] When I was assigned to guard, uh, Chapman at the detectives office, 77 00:04:59,634 --> 00:05:01,344 it was... [stutters] ...shocking, you know, 78 00:05:01,845 --> 00:05:07,017 to be sitting there with this-- this guy who just killed John Lennon. 79 00:05:08,018 --> 00:05:09,811 And at first, he was very calm, 80 00:05:10,604 --> 00:05:14,024 but then he started to get nervous, and he started shaking. 81 00:05:14,691 --> 00:05:18,320 And the detective came in and said, "We notified your wife in Hawaii that--" 82 00:05:18,904 --> 00:05:22,365 Then he really got-- he really got upset and nervous. 83 00:05:22,365 --> 00:05:24,451 And he said, "I have to go to the bathroom." 84 00:05:24,451 --> 00:05:26,745 I said, "Okay, I'll take you, uh, to the bathroom." 85 00:05:26,745 --> 00:05:28,496 I took him to the bathroom. 86 00:05:29,456 --> 00:05:31,917 And while I was in there, I said to him, 87 00:05:31,917 --> 00:05:33,668 "Do you realize what you've done here?" 88 00:05:34,461 --> 00:05:38,381 He says, "Yes. I-I killed myself. I'm John Lennon." 89 00:05:39,799 --> 00:05:42,761 And I-- [sighs] I just looked at him. I-I felt like, you know, 90 00:05:42,761 --> 00:05:45,180 I wanted to throw him out the window, you know, but... [sighs] 91 00:05:45,180 --> 00:05:47,724 [people clamoring] 92 00:05:47,724 --> 00:05:50,435 [Sutherland] The police take an initial statement from Chapman. 93 00:05:51,019 --> 00:05:53,313 He's then allowed to speak to his wife. 94 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,317 {\an8}[phone line ringing] 95 00:05:58,902 --> 00:06:00,362 {\an8}- [Spiro] Hello, Gloria? - [Gloria] Yes. 96 00:06:00,362 --> 00:06:02,405 {\an8}[Spiro] Yeah. This is Police Officer Spiro. 97 00:06:02,405 --> 00:06:04,324 - [Gloria] Yes. - [Spiro] I'm here with your husband. 98 00:06:04,324 --> 00:06:06,117 - [Gloria] Uh-huh. Is he-- - [Spiro] He just wanted me 99 00:06:06,117 --> 00:06:08,578 to get you on the phone first to tell you that he's all right. 100 00:06:08,578 --> 00:06:10,497 - [Gloria] Uh-huh. - [Spiro] He's gonna talk to you now. 101 00:06:12,582 --> 00:06:15,877 [Sutherland] Their phone conversation is recorded in case Chapman 102 00:06:15,877 --> 00:06:17,671 reveals any key information. 103 00:06:18,213 --> 00:06:19,923 {\an8}- [Chapman] Hi. - [Gloria] Hi, Mark. 104 00:06:20,507 --> 00:06:21,925 {\an8}[Chapman] Are the police with you? 105 00:06:21,925 --> 00:06:25,428 {\an8}[Gloria] No. [chuckles] First call I got was a reporter. 106 00:06:25,428 --> 00:06:27,472 {\an8}[Chapman] Well, I don't want to talk to anybody else. 107 00:06:27,472 --> 00:06:31,268 {\an8}[Gloria] I know, but you don't want me to go there then? 108 00:06:32,394 --> 00:06:34,187 {\an8}- [Chapman] Where? - [Gloria] To New York. 109 00:06:34,187 --> 00:06:38,650 {\an8}[Chapman] No. No. No. Just stay where you are. 110 00:06:39,442 --> 00:06:41,945 {\an8}[Gloria] Has it hit you yet, what you've really done? 111 00:06:44,614 --> 00:06:47,951 [Gloria] Okay. I love you though. [sobs] I always will love you. 112 00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:50,704 [Chapman] I love you too. Love you. 113 00:06:50,704 --> 00:06:52,080 [Gloria] Okay. Bye. 114 00:06:52,872 --> 00:06:53,873 [phone disconnects] 115 00:06:53,873 --> 00:06:57,460 [Hoffman] The problem was not, "Did we have the right man?" 116 00:06:58,879 --> 00:07:00,088 {\an8}We did have the killer. 117 00:07:00,088 --> 00:07:03,800 {\an8}We were very positive about that, but we just wanted to close 118 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:09,264 {\an8}every possibility that he had no help or anything. 119 00:07:10,724 --> 00:07:13,602 I wanted to get all the possible witnesses and anybody 120 00:07:13,602 --> 00:07:16,855 that saw anything together before they disappeared. 121 00:07:19,941 --> 00:07:21,651 [Sutherland] Taxi driver Richard Peterson 122 00:07:22,152 --> 00:07:24,362 steps forward as a crucial witness. 123 00:07:26,114 --> 00:07:29,326 {\an8}When I got to the police station, it was a madhouse. 124 00:07:30,452 --> 00:07:31,995 {\an8}A madhouse. 125 00:07:32,579 --> 00:07:35,373 {\an8}The press had begun to... [stutters] ...assemble. 126 00:07:35,373 --> 00:07:36,666 It was a big deal. 127 00:07:38,376 --> 00:07:41,755 They questioned me, and I told them exactly what I saw. 128 00:07:41,755 --> 00:07:45,091 But they made me repeat it a thousand times 129 00:07:45,634 --> 00:07:47,761 because it's the weirdest thing. 130 00:07:49,888 --> 00:07:51,306 After he shot him, 131 00:07:52,140 --> 00:07:54,559 Chapman was still standing there with the gun. 132 00:07:56,978 --> 00:08:01,191 And he dropped the gun, took off his overcoat, 133 00:08:01,942 --> 00:08:04,194 and pulled out that book and held it up. 134 00:08:04,194 --> 00:08:05,403 Catcher on the Rye. 135 00:08:09,950 --> 00:08:12,619 [Sutherland] This bizarre behavior is corroborated 136 00:08:12,619 --> 00:08:15,121 by one of the first police officers at the scene. 137 00:08:16,623 --> 00:08:21,169 {\an8}One of the unusual things was when Chapman was apprehended, 138 00:08:21,169 --> 00:08:25,298 {\an8}he was not trying to flee, but he was reading a book. 139 00:08:26,883 --> 00:08:29,886 I go back to, uh, you know, the maybe minute or two 140 00:08:29,886 --> 00:08:32,889 that he had to run into the park and disappear, 141 00:08:33,515 --> 00:08:35,433 get on a plane and go back to Hawaii. 142 00:08:35,933 --> 00:08:37,185 And who would know? 143 00:08:41,147 --> 00:08:44,693 [Sutherland] After questioning, the police charge Chapman with murder. 144 00:08:45,485 --> 00:08:46,945 [journalists clamoring] 145 00:08:46,945 --> 00:08:49,030 [Cullen] When they took him out of the station house, 146 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:51,032 {\an8}down to court, it was decided that if-- 147 00:08:51,032 --> 00:08:54,077 {\an8}Somebody may want to take a shot at this guy. 148 00:08:54,077 --> 00:08:55,996 {\an8}So, let's do a decoy. 149 00:08:57,163 --> 00:09:00,333 Now we had to get a volunteer who was gonna be the decoy. [chuckles] 150 00:09:01,293 --> 00:09:03,670 Some guy who didn't care about life too much. 151 00:09:03,670 --> 00:09:07,173 I don't know who it was. And that's what happened. 152 00:09:09,134 --> 00:09:13,096 The picture you see of Steve taking him out is not him. [chuckles] 153 00:09:15,724 --> 00:09:20,687 He went out another door and then in a patrol wagon down to court. 154 00:09:25,233 --> 00:09:27,861 [Sutherland] While he is taken to court to be charged, 155 00:09:27,861 --> 00:09:30,155 journalists from around the world begin 156 00:09:30,155 --> 00:09:33,450 the process of finding out who Mark Chapman is. 157 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,287 As Beatles fans held their own private vigils, 158 00:09:37,287 --> 00:09:39,414 the same question was on everyone's lips: 159 00:09:39,414 --> 00:09:41,625 Why would anyone want to kill John Lennon? 160 00:09:41,625 --> 00:09:45,337 The suspect is identified as Mark David Chapman, 25 years old. 161 00:09:45,337 --> 00:09:47,839 [reporter 3] Mark David Chapman, an unemployed security guard from Honolulu. 162 00:09:47,839 --> 00:09:49,299 [reporter 4] Mark David Chapman, 163 00:09:49,299 --> 00:09:52,177 identified as a freelance photographer from Honolulu, Hawaii. 164 00:09:52,177 --> 00:09:54,429 [reporter 5] Well, we know Chapman worked as a housekeeper 165 00:09:54,429 --> 00:09:56,389 and printer at the Castle Memorial Hospital... 166 00:09:56,389 --> 00:09:59,267 ...picture. Every time a new fact comes into view, 167 00:09:59,267 --> 00:10:02,187 the picture of Mark David Chapman changes. 168 00:10:02,687 --> 00:10:05,273 You see, the whole world knows who John Lennon was, 169 00:10:05,273 --> 00:10:07,150 and now we're trying to get our grips-- 170 00:10:07,150 --> 00:10:09,694 We're trying to get a picture of his alleged killer, 171 00:10:09,694 --> 00:10:12,113 perhaps to make some sense of it, if any. 172 00:10:16,451 --> 00:10:18,662 [Sutherland] Police discover, the night before the murder, 173 00:10:18,662 --> 00:10:20,664 Chapman stayed at the Sheraton Hotel. 174 00:10:25,585 --> 00:10:28,755 [Sutherland] They ask a judge for a warrant to search his hotel room. 175 00:10:28,755 --> 00:10:30,799 And detectives arrive at the scene. 176 00:10:34,261 --> 00:10:35,595 [elevator dings] 177 00:10:39,724 --> 00:10:41,851 [Hoffman] After arresting the subject, 178 00:10:41,851 --> 00:10:46,565 we went to the hotel room and got permission to enter. 179 00:10:53,363 --> 00:10:59,327 We found, on the dresser, pictures and certain-- 180 00:10:59,327 --> 00:11:01,913 and personal possessions of Chapman. 181 00:11:02,831 --> 00:11:05,417 Obviously, for us to find. 182 00:11:08,128 --> 00:11:11,256 "The defendant had laid the following items on the table: 183 00:11:12,674 --> 00:11:17,304 his passport, an 8-track tape of the music of Todd Rundgren, 184 00:11:17,304 --> 00:11:21,641 a Bible open to the gospel according to John. 185 00:11:21,641 --> 00:11:24,936 At the center of the arrangement of personal effects, 186 00:11:24,936 --> 00:11:27,606 he had placed a small Wizard of Oz poster." 187 00:11:28,523 --> 00:11:32,193 "A letter from a former YMC supervisor at Fort Chaffee, 188 00:11:32,944 --> 00:11:36,239 where he had worked with Vietnamese refugees." 189 00:11:36,239 --> 00:11:40,619 He was-- Always seemed to be working with children, 190 00:11:41,786 --> 00:11:43,163 or people that needed help. 191 00:11:45,123 --> 00:11:47,834 [Sutherland] For some, the items left by Chapman 192 00:11:47,834 --> 00:11:50,253 prove the murder was premeditated. 193 00:11:50,253 --> 00:11:52,255 Not only had he planned the killing, 194 00:11:52,756 --> 00:11:55,592 but he'd also anticipated the police investigation. 195 00:11:59,930 --> 00:12:02,098 For Chapman's defense team, however, 196 00:12:02,098 --> 00:12:05,018 the display is clear evidence of his insanity. 197 00:12:05,518 --> 00:12:08,521 [reporter 5] Another part of the picture comes from Mark Chapman's lawyer, 198 00:12:08,521 --> 00:12:10,857 Herbert Adlerberg, who convinced the court 199 00:12:10,857 --> 00:12:13,318 to put Chapman under psychiatric observation. 200 00:12:14,277 --> 00:12:15,403 {\an8}He seems confused. 201 00:12:15,403 --> 00:12:19,491 {\an8}He seems, uh, at least in my opinion, unable to fully cooperate 202 00:12:19,491 --> 00:12:22,244 with his attorney at this point. And, uh-- 203 00:12:22,744 --> 00:12:23,745 In what way? 204 00:12:23,745 --> 00:12:26,665 Well, his answers are not responsive to the questions that I pose to him, 205 00:12:27,249 --> 00:12:29,834 specifically the questions dealing with the incident itself. 206 00:12:30,335 --> 00:12:32,712 Uh, and I thought that it would be advisable 207 00:12:32,712 --> 00:12:36,174 to have him examined psychiatrically before any further proceedings occurred. 208 00:12:39,970 --> 00:12:41,846 {\an8}[Sutherland] Chapman is taken to Bellevue Hospital 209 00:12:41,846 --> 00:12:44,474 {\an8}prison ward for evaluation. 210 00:12:46,434 --> 00:12:49,729 Assistant Commissioner Ed Hershey awaits his arrival. 211 00:12:51,356 --> 00:12:53,650 [Hershey] I was at Bellevue when he was brought in. 212 00:12:54,442 --> 00:12:57,654 [people chattering] 213 00:12:57,654 --> 00:13:00,365 [Hershey] And I actually went up in the elevator to the floor 214 00:13:00,365 --> 00:13:02,867 that our jail complex was 215 00:13:04,452 --> 00:13:07,163 {\an8}with him and the officer who was escorting him. 216 00:13:07,914 --> 00:13:10,959 And we were inches apart. 217 00:13:10,959 --> 00:13:15,463 I said to him, "You okay?" And he nodded. 218 00:13:17,716 --> 00:13:20,176 I remember thinking how ordinary he looked. 219 00:13:20,176 --> 00:13:22,846 There was nothing particularly distinguishable about him. 220 00:13:23,847 --> 00:13:25,348 And I was trying to think of stuff 221 00:13:25,348 --> 00:13:28,351 because I had to go tell the reporters what I'd seen. 222 00:13:28,351 --> 00:13:30,604 He almost looked at peace. 223 00:13:30,604 --> 00:13:33,940 Boy, he did not betray any emotion at all. 224 00:13:34,566 --> 00:13:38,361 This is the prison unit of Bellevue Hospital where Mark Chapman, 225 00:13:38,361 --> 00:13:40,739 the alleged killer of former Beatle, John Lennon, 226 00:13:40,739 --> 00:13:45,118 is being held on a second-floor cell amidst extraordinary security precautions 227 00:13:45,118 --> 00:13:46,912 by the Department of Corrections. 228 00:13:49,664 --> 00:13:52,500 [Sutherland] Chapman is now in the hands of psychiatric professionals, 229 00:13:53,001 --> 00:13:58,006 and Dr. Naomi Goldstein assesses his sanity and ability to stand trial. 230 00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:04,304 She's never spoken publicly about her findings before. 231 00:14:05,222 --> 00:14:07,515 {\an8}They send him in, and he walks in. 232 00:14:07,515 --> 00:14:11,603 {\an8}And I say, "Hi, I'm Dr. Goldstein. Would you have a seat here?" 233 00:14:12,312 --> 00:14:15,398 I wanted to know what happened and how he got there. 234 00:14:16,691 --> 00:14:18,735 And we talked for quite a while, if I recall. 235 00:14:19,819 --> 00:14:21,947 He showed so many different facades. 236 00:14:22,656 --> 00:14:26,701 He could be nasty. He could be sweet. He-He was difficult. 237 00:14:28,578 --> 00:14:33,667 He was... [stammers] ...trying to avoid giving straight answers, 238 00:14:34,584 --> 00:14:36,127 so it was a puzzle. 239 00:14:39,506 --> 00:14:43,260 "Speech coherent, relevant and logical. 240 00:14:44,261 --> 00:14:48,098 Very anxious, hyperventilating and exhausted, 241 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,394 but cooperative, appropriate and in good contact." 242 00:14:52,394 --> 00:14:54,271 Meaning he's talking to me. 243 00:14:55,355 --> 00:14:58,775 [crowd singing "Give Peace A Chance"] 244 00:14:59,276 --> 00:15:03,530 [Mintz] When I was in the old bedroom with Yoko, 245 00:15:03,530 --> 00:15:09,202 we heard John's songs being sung by thousands of people. 246 00:15:09,995 --> 00:15:11,871 [singing "Give Peace A Chance" continues] 247 00:15:15,333 --> 00:15:17,836 [singing "Give Peace A Chance" continues] 248 00:15:17,836 --> 00:15:22,632 {\an8}Ringo was the first to call and to physically show up. 249 00:15:24,426 --> 00:15:29,139 {\an8}[stammers] John loved Ringo. Spoke about him all the time, glowingly. 250 00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:33,184 [Ringo Starr] I went into the Dakota. 251 00:15:33,184 --> 00:15:35,687 I said to Yoko, "I know how you feel." 252 00:15:36,354 --> 00:15:38,398 And the woman, straight as a die, 253 00:15:38,398 --> 00:15:39,900 she said, "No, you don't." 254 00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:42,402 Because no matter how close I was to him, 255 00:15:43,612 --> 00:15:46,364 I was not half as close as she was to him. 256 00:15:53,455 --> 00:15:55,957 [Starr] And there were people, while we were there, shouting up, 257 00:15:55,957 --> 00:15:59,002 you know, to Yoko, "Come to the window." Or Sean. 258 00:15:59,753 --> 00:16:03,006 Uh. Where-- I mean, in fact, it would have been better 259 00:16:03,006 --> 00:16:06,885 if they'd all left her alone because they're not gonna bring him back. 260 00:16:06,885 --> 00:16:09,512 And they didn't help her by having this whole crowd outside, 261 00:16:10,388 --> 00:16:11,765 uh, playing his music. 262 00:16:11,765 --> 00:16:14,392 [shouting, clamoring] 263 00:16:17,896 --> 00:16:19,522 [Starr] And then when we came out, 264 00:16:21,149 --> 00:16:24,819 I didn't need to hear people telling me how much they loved the Beatles 265 00:16:24,819 --> 00:16:27,739 or any of that when we'd just lost John. 266 00:16:27,739 --> 00:16:30,033 'Cause I wasn't there to see a Beatle. 267 00:16:30,533 --> 00:16:33,411 I was there to see my friend not relating to this band. 268 00:16:40,544 --> 00:16:44,130 [Mintz] This is what Yoko wrote on December 9, 1980. 269 00:16:44,798 --> 00:16:47,008 "There is no funeral for John. 270 00:16:47,717 --> 00:16:53,056 Later in the week, we will set a time for a silent vigil to pray for his soul." 271 00:16:55,058 --> 00:16:57,852 With John... [stammers] ...he was to be cremated 272 00:16:58,687 --> 00:17:03,275 and his remains, to this day, remains in an undisclosed place. 273 00:17:06,777 --> 00:17:10,489 [Sutherland] Lennon's sudden murder without any apparent motive 274 00:17:10,489 --> 00:17:14,077 leaves those closest to him desperate for answers. 275 00:17:15,078 --> 00:17:18,081 [Mintz] I've never expressed this before. 276 00:17:19,708 --> 00:17:23,169 One of the things that Yoko asked me 277 00:17:23,169 --> 00:17:26,673 was to look into the various theories, 278 00:17:26,673 --> 00:17:31,970 the conspiracy theories, uh, after... [stammers] ...John's murder. 279 00:17:34,306 --> 00:17:38,518 [Sutherland] Some believed hidden forces might be behind Lennon's murder. 280 00:17:39,728 --> 00:17:44,316 In the 1970s, he was an outspoken figure in American political life, 281 00:17:44,316 --> 00:17:47,444 mobilizing his huge following against President Nixon 282 00:17:47,444 --> 00:17:49,446 and the war in Vietnam. 283 00:17:49,446 --> 00:17:50,947 [protestors shouting] 284 00:17:52,157 --> 00:17:56,870 We're here to bring the boys home, but let's not forget the machines. 285 00:17:57,495 --> 00:18:01,166 Bring the machines home, and then we'll really get somewhere. 286 00:18:01,166 --> 00:18:04,586 The two of them were convinced that the Dakota building, 287 00:18:04,586 --> 00:18:08,798 their-- their apartment area, was being bugged. 288 00:18:08,798 --> 00:18:11,468 There is no question 289 00:18:11,468 --> 00:18:16,056 that the intelligence agencies of this country, 290 00:18:16,556 --> 00:18:19,976 be it CIA, FBI, National Security, 291 00:18:19,976 --> 00:18:25,315 a variety of others, were doing that. 292 00:18:26,149 --> 00:18:28,568 [Lennon] I know the difference between the phone being normal 293 00:18:28,568 --> 00:18:30,403 when I pick it up and when every time I pick it up, 294 00:18:30,403 --> 00:18:31,988 there's a lot of noises, you know. 295 00:18:31,988 --> 00:18:35,367 And I'd open the door and there'd be guys standing on the other side of the street. 296 00:18:35,367 --> 00:18:37,410 I'd get in the car, and they'd be following me. 297 00:18:37,410 --> 00:18:39,454 Suddenly I realized this was serious, you know. 298 00:18:39,454 --> 00:18:41,581 They were coming for me one way or the other. 299 00:18:43,833 --> 00:18:46,795 [Sutherland] John and Yoko's paranoia was well-founded. 300 00:18:48,255 --> 00:18:50,799 [reporter 6] These FBI files, 26 pounds of them, 301 00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:53,593 obtained by author Jon Wiener clearly reveal Lennon 302 00:18:53,593 --> 00:18:56,846 was considered a political threat by the Nixon administration. 303 00:18:59,057 --> 00:19:01,309 There are hundreds and hundreds of pages 304 00:19:02,018 --> 00:19:06,022 written to the director of the FBI from Richard Nixon, 305 00:19:06,523 --> 00:19:09,818 where it was determined that John and Yoko 306 00:19:09,818 --> 00:19:13,071 were to be followed, monitored, 307 00:19:14,072 --> 00:19:18,952 and steps were taken on the highest level of government... 308 00:19:20,453 --> 00:19:23,331 to do something about the Lennon problem. 309 00:19:23,957 --> 00:19:26,001 Nobody's ever given peace a complete chance. 310 00:19:26,001 --> 00:19:28,628 Gandhi tried it and Martin Luther King tried it, but they were shot. 311 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,593 [Sutherland] If a third party was behind Lennon's death, 312 00:19:34,593 --> 00:19:37,345 how might Mark Chapman have been involved? 313 00:19:37,345 --> 00:19:42,309 [reporter 7] MKUltra is the code word for a secret CIA project 314 00:19:42,309 --> 00:19:46,646 in which unsuspecting people were used in mind control experiments. 315 00:19:47,397 --> 00:19:50,734 [Sutherland] Dr. Milton Kline, a world expert in hypnosis, 316 00:19:50,734 --> 00:19:54,654 was a significant part of the CIA's MKUltra program. 317 00:19:54,654 --> 00:19:58,491 Most government agencies concerned with intelligence operations 318 00:19:58,491 --> 00:20:01,786 have been looking to hypnosis as a tool 319 00:20:01,786 --> 00:20:05,665 to execute certain intelligence operations. 320 00:20:06,458 --> 00:20:10,086 [Sutherland] Dr. Kline will later visit Chapman during his incarceration 321 00:20:10,587 --> 00:20:13,215 and become part of his defense team. 322 00:20:13,215 --> 00:20:16,259 [reporter 8] Documents clearly show that the CIA was attempting 323 00:20:16,259 --> 00:20:20,055 to develop agents over whom they had as much control as possible. 324 00:20:20,639 --> 00:20:24,476 It is the closest experimentation to brainwashing yet disclosed. 325 00:20:25,060 --> 00:20:28,230 [Sutherland] The CIA was fascinated by the idea of mind control, 326 00:20:28,730 --> 00:20:32,692 and some believed it had a role to play in Robert Kennedy's assassination. 327 00:20:33,401 --> 00:20:34,653 [gunshots] 328 00:20:34,653 --> 00:20:36,446 [reporter 9] Sirhan says he remembers 329 00:20:36,446 --> 00:20:38,490 being at the hotel the night of the killing. 330 00:20:38,490 --> 00:20:40,951 He remembers pouring coffee for a pretty girl, 331 00:20:40,951 --> 00:20:42,244 and then he goes blank. 332 00:20:42,244 --> 00:20:46,122 Sirhan remembered then walking through an alcove filled with mirrors, 333 00:20:46,122 --> 00:20:47,958 and he was dazed by the mirrors. 334 00:20:47,958 --> 00:20:51,127 The defense believes they put him into a form of hypnotic trance. 335 00:20:51,127 --> 00:20:54,965 Sirhan remembered his first reaction was to shake hands with Kennedy, 336 00:20:54,965 --> 00:20:58,176 but then as the crowd rushed at him, he pulled the gun. 337 00:20:58,677 --> 00:21:02,514 [Sutherland] Chapman's unusual behavior immediately after shooting Lennon 338 00:21:02,514 --> 00:21:06,476 is a key concern for lead detective Ron Hoffman. 339 00:21:12,274 --> 00:21:13,692 [Hoffman] Was he alone? 340 00:21:14,234 --> 00:21:17,070 Was somebody working behind the lines with him? 341 00:21:17,737 --> 00:21:19,322 Was it a conspiracy? 342 00:21:20,824 --> 00:21:24,911 All these questions started running through my mind and everybody else's mind. 343 00:21:27,789 --> 00:21:29,666 We sent the team to Hawaii 344 00:21:29,666 --> 00:21:33,461 to interview his current friends and relatives. 345 00:21:33,461 --> 00:21:35,005 We spoke to his family. 346 00:21:35,672 --> 00:21:39,843 We spoke to everybody that we could find that knew him. 347 00:21:41,052 --> 00:21:45,265 He was very quiet most of the time, and he was a very good worker. 348 00:21:46,016 --> 00:21:48,935 Soft-spoken, quiet, intelligent young man. 349 00:21:48,935 --> 00:21:52,731 He, uh-- Very intellectual. Very level-headed 350 00:21:52,731 --> 00:21:56,484 [reporter 10] In many ways, Chapman's life remains a jumbled mosaic. 351 00:21:56,484 --> 00:21:59,571 His friends are still trying to put together the pieces, 352 00:21:59,571 --> 00:22:01,281 are still wondering, 353 00:22:01,281 --> 00:22:04,993 "Could the Mark Chapman they have known here these last several years 354 00:22:04,993 --> 00:22:09,873 really be the same man who now stands accused of John Lennon's murder?" 355 00:22:09,873 --> 00:22:11,207 [reporters speaking indistinctly] 356 00:22:11,207 --> 00:22:12,626 [Sutherland] Chapman remains a puzzle, 357 00:22:13,251 --> 00:22:16,713 and the world's media are as eager as the police to understand him. 358 00:22:18,673 --> 00:22:23,220 They soon track down one of those closest to him in the hope of revealing more. 359 00:22:24,804 --> 00:22:26,681 [reporter 11] A guard was posted this afternoon 360 00:22:26,681 --> 00:22:29,017 at the Chapmans' 21st-floor apartment. 361 00:22:29,017 --> 00:22:32,020 Chapman's wife, the former Gloria Abe, 362 00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:34,898 is reported to be inside with a woman friend, 363 00:22:34,898 --> 00:22:36,691 declining to speak with reporters. 364 00:22:36,691 --> 00:22:39,778 We approached the door at about 7:00 this morning 365 00:22:39,778 --> 00:22:42,530 before the guard was posted, and heard crying. 366 00:22:45,242 --> 00:22:48,411 [attorney] She was so overwhelmed by the media. 367 00:22:48,411 --> 00:22:52,249 She needed legal help, and she called me. 368 00:22:55,919 --> 00:23:01,091 {\an8}So, I thought the most effective way was to get all the press together in one room, 369 00:23:01,633 --> 00:23:05,887 {\an8}let them ask as many questions as they wanted to and be done with it. 370 00:23:06,596 --> 00:23:08,265 [Gloria] Being a Beatles fan, 371 00:23:08,265 --> 00:23:12,727 I mourn the death of John Lennon and feel great sadness for his wife, 372 00:23:12,727 --> 00:23:14,563 Yoko, and his son, Sean. 373 00:23:15,272 --> 00:23:20,193 I just want to say that I'm just very, very sorry that this had to happen to, uh, 374 00:23:21,027 --> 00:23:25,115 Yoko Ono and-and her family, and that her husband had to die. 375 00:23:27,325 --> 00:23:29,035 [Hart] When I heard her saying, you know, 376 00:23:29,035 --> 00:23:32,163 "It's a great shame that he had to die," 377 00:23:33,290 --> 00:23:38,712 I wasn't sure whether that was Gloria's poor choice of words. 378 00:23:39,212 --> 00:23:43,967 Because he didn't have to die if Chapman didn't go and kill him. 379 00:23:45,051 --> 00:23:48,013 I don't think it bespoke of any foreknowledge 380 00:23:48,013 --> 00:23:49,890 that he was going to die. 381 00:23:50,891 --> 00:23:54,311 I don't think she had accepted, at that point, 382 00:23:54,811 --> 00:23:57,898 the reality that her husband killed him. 383 00:23:59,399 --> 00:24:04,654 Gloria did not do anything or participate in any way 384 00:24:04,654 --> 00:24:09,659 in this trip in a way in which she did consciously 385 00:24:09,659 --> 00:24:14,039 lend any support to, uh, Mark's actions. 386 00:24:15,957 --> 00:24:19,878 [Hart] She... [stutters] ...didn't waiver much from that straightforward, 387 00:24:20,462 --> 00:24:23,048 matter-of-fact presentation. 388 00:24:23,673 --> 00:24:25,884 I would've expected more... [stutters] ...emotion. 389 00:24:26,468 --> 00:24:28,261 I think that's just the way she is. 390 00:24:29,512 --> 00:24:33,558 I'm a Christian, and I believe that forgiveness is one of the greatest things. 391 00:24:34,184 --> 00:24:36,603 I've always felt that I'm a very forgiving person. 392 00:24:38,772 --> 00:24:41,441 [Sutherland] Gloria answers questions from the press, 393 00:24:41,441 --> 00:24:46,279 but there are aspects of her relationship with Chapman that are not disclosed. 394 00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:51,159 [Hart] She told me that after they married, Chapman, uh, 395 00:24:51,159 --> 00:24:55,455 took to, uh, drinking and even hit her several times. 396 00:24:56,206 --> 00:25:00,544 And then, uh, you know, he would be unkempt and kind of out of it. 397 00:25:02,045 --> 00:25:06,967 And this caused her to have some great doubt about his mental health. 398 00:25:13,014 --> 00:25:17,102 [Sutherland] Back in New York, psychiatrist Dr. Naomi Goldstein 399 00:25:17,102 --> 00:25:21,690 has reached a conclusion regarding Chapman's ability to stand trial. 400 00:25:22,399 --> 00:25:27,362 Competency to stand trial is defined as the ability 401 00:25:27,362 --> 00:25:32,367 to understand the charges against him and to cooperate in his own defense. 402 00:25:33,326 --> 00:25:35,787 Nothing remotely psychotic came out of him. 403 00:25:36,621 --> 00:25:40,125 No evidence of hallucinations or delusions. 404 00:25:42,502 --> 00:25:45,630 Final assessment: Fit to stand trial. 405 00:25:47,841 --> 00:25:51,469 Step to the side, folks. Come on, folks. Step to the side. Come on. 406 00:25:51,469 --> 00:25:54,306 [Sutherland] With the trial imminent, anti-Chapman sentiment 407 00:25:54,848 --> 00:25:57,726 shifts the public mood from grief to anger. 408 00:25:58,643 --> 00:26:01,479 [journalist] Mr. Adlerberg, can you tell us why you've resigned? 409 00:26:02,063 --> 00:26:04,774 [Sutherland] It proves too much for even his own lawyer. 410 00:26:05,483 --> 00:26:07,485 Crackpot calls, curiosity seekers. 411 00:26:07,485 --> 00:26:10,238 My phones were tied up constantly throughout the day. 412 00:26:10,238 --> 00:26:13,033 I felt I couldn't really represent this fellow 413 00:26:13,033 --> 00:26:15,118 to the best of my ability under those circumstances. 414 00:26:15,118 --> 00:26:16,828 [officer 2] Walk back. Walk back. 415 00:26:19,497 --> 00:26:22,834 [Hershey] We had to make the assumption that any number 416 00:26:22,834 --> 00:26:25,295 of people would have loved to get at him 417 00:26:26,463 --> 00:26:30,342 because we had an individual who had just shot a Beatle. 418 00:26:30,342 --> 00:26:34,679 So we needed to find the most secure place in our system, 419 00:26:34,679 --> 00:26:38,141 and overnight it was determined that that was 420 00:26:38,141 --> 00:26:40,936 in an infirmary on Rikers Island. 421 00:26:40,936 --> 00:26:43,104 [reporter 12] Mark David Chapman was moved from Bellevue Hospital 422 00:26:43,104 --> 00:26:46,066 yesterday following an avalanche of death threats. 423 00:26:46,066 --> 00:26:47,734 {\an8}[sirens wailing] 424 00:26:48,818 --> 00:26:51,696 [Hershey] Rikers Island Prison is in the East River, 425 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,241 reachable only by bridge, 426 00:26:54,741 --> 00:26:58,245 and it is fairly remote considering it's in the city of New York. 427 00:26:58,245 --> 00:27:02,415 That isolation made it ideal for somebody like Chapman. 428 00:27:08,338 --> 00:27:10,423 [Sutherland] Amid the growing hostility, 429 00:27:10,423 --> 00:27:14,844 a young and relatively inexperienced defense lawyer steps into the limelight. 430 00:27:16,304 --> 00:27:18,598 [reporter 13] Thirty-seven-year-old Jonathan Marks said he was 431 00:27:18,598 --> 00:27:21,309 called this morning and asked if he would take the case. 432 00:27:21,309 --> 00:27:24,271 He told reporters he couldn't think of a reason why not. 433 00:27:25,230 --> 00:27:27,649 [journalist] The fact that a lot of people are angry with, uh, Mr. Chapman-- 434 00:27:27,649 --> 00:27:29,734 the fact that you're going to represent him-- 435 00:27:29,734 --> 00:27:31,236 how do you feel about that? 436 00:27:31,236 --> 00:27:35,865 Well, I can't imagine that anybody who feels anger for Mr. Chapman 437 00:27:36,491 --> 00:27:38,243 would take that out on me. 438 00:27:38,243 --> 00:27:40,954 I am simply a lawyer representing a client. 439 00:27:42,497 --> 00:27:44,583 [Sutherland] To assist with the growing scale of the case, 440 00:27:45,292 --> 00:27:49,045 Marks recruits a junior lawyer, David Suggs. 441 00:27:51,214 --> 00:27:53,383 [Suggs] In my view then and now, 442 00:27:53,967 --> 00:27:56,428 {\an8}there's really no higher calling for a lawyer 443 00:27:56,428 --> 00:28:00,974 {\an8}than to defend an unpopular criminal defendant. 444 00:28:00,974 --> 00:28:05,020 But there was no question that, uh, you know, you were feeling the pressure. 445 00:28:06,271 --> 00:28:10,108 I'd been on a number of high-profile cases before. 446 00:28:10,108 --> 00:28:14,321 But as it turned out, this was like a quantum leap... [chuckles] 447 00:28:14,321 --> 00:28:16,489 ...beyond anything else I had ever worked on. 448 00:28:20,577 --> 00:28:22,370 [Sutherland] In preparation for trial, 449 00:28:22,370 --> 00:28:25,916 Chapman's defense team start visiting him in prison. 450 00:28:28,543 --> 00:28:30,086 [Marks] It is Sunday 451 00:28:30,086 --> 00:28:32,172 and I'm at Rikers Island 452 00:28:32,172 --> 00:28:33,340 to see Mark Chapman. 453 00:28:35,467 --> 00:28:39,137 [Sutherland] They now record every conversation they have with him. 454 00:28:39,137 --> 00:28:41,389 [Marks] I'm truly happy 455 00:28:41,389 --> 00:28:42,849 to be representing you. 456 00:28:43,725 --> 00:28:48,104 [Sutherland] These conversations have never been heard publicly before. 457 00:28:48,772 --> 00:28:50,398 [Chapman] Do you promise that, uh-- 458 00:28:50,398 --> 00:28:52,609 I'll just ask this once and I won't ask it again. 459 00:28:53,318 --> 00:28:55,278 Uh, you'll stick this out with me? 460 00:28:55,779 --> 00:28:56,947 [Marks] I promise. 461 00:28:56,947 --> 00:28:59,491 And you can ask that as many times as you like. 462 00:29:00,992 --> 00:29:04,037 It was weird because you could talk to him at times 463 00:29:04,037 --> 00:29:07,249 and he would seem pretty normal. 464 00:29:07,249 --> 00:29:09,376 And then wham! 465 00:29:09,376 --> 00:29:12,045 Out of his mouth in the next instant would come something 466 00:29:12,045 --> 00:29:14,506 that was just so out of left field, uh, 467 00:29:15,090 --> 00:29:17,467 you know, you realize, "Oh, yeah, he's crazy." 468 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,387 [Marks] So, tell me what happened. 469 00:29:21,471 --> 00:29:23,557 [Chapman] Well, this is kind of a crazy thought. 470 00:29:23,557 --> 00:29:26,851 I thought I would turn into somebody if I killed somebody. 471 00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:29,020 [Marks] What did you think you'd turn into? 472 00:29:29,020 --> 00:29:30,772 [Chapman] You know the book The Catcher in the Rye? 473 00:29:30,772 --> 00:29:34,401 - [Marks] Yeah. Yes. - I had that book on me, you know? 474 00:29:34,401 --> 00:29:38,196 I thought that I would turn into the character of the book. 475 00:29:38,196 --> 00:29:39,573 Now, I realize that-that-- 476 00:29:40,699 --> 00:29:42,701 [Marks] What'd you think you'd turn into? 477 00:29:42,701 --> 00:29:43,994 [Chapman] Holden Caulfield. 478 00:29:47,163 --> 00:29:51,126 He thought he was going to turn literally into Holden Caulfield, 479 00:29:51,126 --> 00:29:53,545 the character in the book The Catcher in the Rye. 480 00:29:53,545 --> 00:29:57,716 He was gonna change from, you know... [stammers] ...a pretty stout, 481 00:29:57,716 --> 00:30:03,763 uh, young man into a t-tall, uh, slender, uh, teenager. 482 00:30:03,763 --> 00:30:05,473 He was not rational. 483 00:30:05,473 --> 00:30:08,476 This was not a whodunit. Clearly, he shot Lennon. 484 00:30:08,476 --> 00:30:10,145 He made no attempt to escape. 485 00:30:10,145 --> 00:30:11,980 The question was going to be, 486 00:30:11,980 --> 00:30:16,067 "What was his mental state at the time he committed the act?" 487 00:30:16,067 --> 00:30:20,322 You know, our intent was to prove to the jury that this man was, in fact, 488 00:30:20,322 --> 00:30:25,452 insane, uh, and warranted, uh-- as a result of that-- uh, 489 00:30:25,452 --> 00:30:29,789 psychiatric care, um, as opposed to, you know, 490 00:30:29,789 --> 00:30:32,542 punishment in a, uh-- in a prison. 491 00:30:34,211 --> 00:30:39,007 [Sutherland] The prosecution, however, don't accept Chapman's insanity defense. 492 00:30:39,883 --> 00:30:44,721 {\an8}Now, if someone were suffering from a mental disease so severe 493 00:30:44,721 --> 00:30:47,641 that they picked up a gun and thought that it was a banana, 494 00:30:48,225 --> 00:30:52,604 uh, that would be one-- one pathway to establish an insanity defense. 495 00:30:54,564 --> 00:30:58,401 But in our view, he didn't have a mental disease. 496 00:30:59,194 --> 00:31:03,531 He knew what he was doing, he had a gun, he used it for its intended purpose. 497 00:31:04,241 --> 00:31:06,326 And-And he knew what he was doing was wrong 498 00:31:06,326 --> 00:31:09,663 because after the murder, he waited for the police to arrive. 499 00:31:15,293 --> 00:31:17,212 [journalist 1] And what will your psychiatrist examine? 500 00:31:17,212 --> 00:31:18,838 - When will they be examining him? - [journalist 1] What and why. 501 00:31:18,838 --> 00:31:19,965 And what for? 502 00:31:19,965 --> 00:31:23,134 They're going to be looking into his state of mind at the time of the act. 503 00:31:25,136 --> 00:31:27,556 [Sutherland] Chapman's lead lawyer, Jonathan Marks, 504 00:31:27,556 --> 00:31:30,600 now reveals a controversial appointment to his team. 505 00:31:31,643 --> 00:31:33,478 I've chosen, uh, the best I could find. 506 00:31:33,478 --> 00:31:35,063 [journalist 2] Can you tell us who they are? 507 00:31:35,063 --> 00:31:37,941 [journalist 3] Isn't Milton Kline a, uh, hypnotist? 508 00:31:38,441 --> 00:31:40,860 Uh, Milton Kline is a clinical psychologist, uh, 509 00:31:40,860 --> 00:31:43,655 and he does use hypnosis as a diagnostic tool. 510 00:31:46,241 --> 00:31:48,201 [Sutherland] He's hired the former consultant 511 00:31:48,201 --> 00:31:52,330 to the CIA's mind control program, Dr. Milton Kline. 512 00:31:53,456 --> 00:31:56,251 {\an8}You could train them to use firearms indiscriminately. 513 00:31:56,251 --> 00:31:59,963 {\an8}You could train them to shoot people with very little feeling or thought, 514 00:32:00,630 --> 00:32:03,383 with no hesitancy, with no concern. 515 00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:06,970 [Marks] Mark, this is Dr. Milton Kline. 516 00:32:06,970 --> 00:32:09,556 [Kline] How are you, Mark? Good to meet you. 517 00:32:09,556 --> 00:32:12,225 [Sutherland] If there are any hidden aspects to the murder, 518 00:32:12,726 --> 00:32:16,438 Dr. Kline hopes to reveal them via hypnosis. 519 00:32:16,438 --> 00:32:18,189 [Kline] What I'd like you to do, Mark, 520 00:32:18,189 --> 00:32:20,317 is just focus your eyes up on the ceiling. 521 00:32:21,234 --> 00:32:24,237 Just begin to close the eyelids down gently. 522 00:32:24,237 --> 00:32:26,740 Let the whole body begin to relax now, 523 00:32:27,449 --> 00:32:31,328 from the top of the head all the way back to the tips of the toes. 524 00:32:32,412 --> 00:32:36,541 And feel yourself growing deeper and deeper relaxed now. 525 00:32:36,541 --> 00:32:41,171 Deeper and deeper and deeper. 526 00:32:43,715 --> 00:32:45,258 [Chapman] I'm in a very weird state right now. 527 00:32:45,258 --> 00:32:46,676 I feel very relaxed. 528 00:32:46,676 --> 00:32:48,720 - [Kline] It has that effect, doesn't it? - [Chapman] Mm-hmm. 529 00:32:49,804 --> 00:32:52,349 [Kline] Try to visualize that scene for me if you would. 530 00:32:52,349 --> 00:32:54,184 - [Chapman] The death scene? - Yeah. 531 00:32:54,684 --> 00:32:58,063 [Chapman] Okay. I was sitting down and a car pulled up. 532 00:32:58,605 --> 00:33:02,359 And I knew it was his, so I said, "This is it." 533 00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:07,739 The door opened up. Yoko got out, and I nodded to her. 534 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,741 And then he came out. 535 00:33:10,617 --> 00:33:12,285 I looked at John when he went by. 536 00:33:12,285 --> 00:33:17,290 And then I stepped out off that little curb area, 537 00:33:18,124 --> 00:33:21,711 walked about six feet, turned and faced him, 538 00:33:22,546 --> 00:33:24,172 took the gun out of my pocket 539 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,260 and aimed it at him, 540 00:33:28,260 --> 00:33:30,637 and then just fired away. 541 00:33:30,637 --> 00:33:32,639 All five shots. 542 00:33:33,139 --> 00:33:34,891 And then they took me away, and that's when I said, 543 00:33:34,891 --> 00:33:37,060 "I'm the Catcher in the Rye." 544 00:33:37,602 --> 00:33:41,898 [Kline] Do you remember how you were feeling? Just the feeling. 545 00:33:42,941 --> 00:33:46,111 [Chapman] It just felt like it wasn't me, but it was me. 546 00:33:46,111 --> 00:33:48,113 I did it, and I remember doing it. 547 00:33:48,113 --> 00:33:52,409 [Kline] And what part of your mind made the decision? 548 00:33:53,618 --> 00:33:55,161 [Chapman] Oh, I see a struggle. 549 00:33:55,161 --> 00:33:57,372 Part of me didn't want to, part of me did. 550 00:33:58,540 --> 00:34:02,419 All I remember is-is I had a voice in my head 551 00:34:02,419 --> 00:34:06,298 that said, "Do it, do it, do it, do it," right when he was going past me. 552 00:34:06,298 --> 00:34:08,133 And I did it. 553 00:34:15,807 --> 00:34:20,061 [reporter 14] And now we will have ten minutes of silent prayer to pray, 554 00:34:20,061 --> 00:34:21,229 as Yoko Ono has asked, 555 00:34:21,229 --> 00:34:23,315 - for John Lennon's soul. - Ladies and gentlemen... 556 00:34:23,315 --> 00:34:26,651 Please turn off all radios. 557 00:34:27,736 --> 00:34:32,324 Please stop any sale or vending of any merchandise. 558 00:34:33,115 --> 00:34:36,827 Meditate in your quiet way. We start now. 559 00:34:38,121 --> 00:34:39,831 May we all pray. Thank you. 560 00:34:40,874 --> 00:34:42,959 [Sutherland] As Chapman prepares for trial, 561 00:34:42,959 --> 00:34:46,922 thousands gather for Lennon's vigil in Central Park. 562 00:34:47,881 --> 00:34:52,719 One attendee has followed recent events especially closely. 563 00:34:55,387 --> 00:34:57,474 His name is John Hinckley Jr. 564 00:34:57,974 --> 00:35:01,061 He also has a copy of The Catcher in the Rye. 565 00:35:03,063 --> 00:35:07,150 And he's about to shoot the president of the United States. 566 00:35:07,150 --> 00:35:09,694 - [people clamoring, screaming] - [gunshots] 567 00:35:18,536 --> 00:35:20,997 {\an8}[reporter 15] Mark Chapman has pleaded innocent to the shooting 568 00:35:20,997 --> 00:35:22,624 {\an8}by reason of insanity. 569 00:35:22,624 --> 00:35:24,501 {\an8}God told him to do it. 570 00:35:24,501 --> 00:35:28,713 {\an8}He's guilty 'cause I don't believe in the insanity clause or whatever. 571 00:35:28,713 --> 00:35:30,006 {\an8}He wasn't mentally ill. 572 00:35:30,006 --> 00:35:33,760 {\an8}His intention was to bring fame to himself. 573 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,887 {\an8}[interviewee] Under any other circumstance, 574 00:35:35,887 --> 00:35:38,014 {\an8}he would have been tried as an insane person. 575 00:35:38,014 --> 00:35:39,307 {\an8}He shot the wrong man.