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[people clamoring, clapping]
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[gunshots]
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[people screaming]
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[people shouting indistinctly]
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[Sutherland] Only three months
after the shooting of John Lennon,
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President Reagan is gunned down
in Washington, D.C.
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[reporter 1] In custody tonight,
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charged with firing the shots
at the president
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and those around him,
is a young man named John Hinckley Jr.
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[Sutherland] Like Lennon's murder,
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the shooting is in full view
of the public,
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and the suspect is apprehended
at the scene.
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[reporter 2]
Security was extremely tight
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{\an8}as John Hinckley Jr. arrived
at the federal courthouse
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{\an8}in an armored motorcade,
surrounded by armed federal marshals.
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[Sutherland] In another parallel
to the Lennon case,
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a copy of The Catcher in the Rye
is found in Hinckley's hotel room.
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His defense team plan to prove he's
not guilty by reason of insanity.
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{\an8}Schizophrenia is-- is considered
the most severe of the mental illnesses.
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This would refer to people who are
experiencing hearing of-- of voices,
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that are developing false belief systems,
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uh, that are becoming dominant
in their life.
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[reporter 3] Carpenter said John Hinckley
suffered from schizophrenia
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and could not conform to the law
or realize what he was doing.
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[Carpenter] There was no assumption
that he would be found not guilty
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by reason of insanity.
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Um, there was an assumption
that the public would be upset.
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[stammers] I mean, the-- there'd be anger.
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{\an8}[reporter 4] The Hinckley verdict:
Innocent by reason of insanity.
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{\an8}Reacting to that verdict today,
many New Yorkers
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said the insanity defense
was just a cop-out.
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Think he sh-- he's guilty
'cause I don't believe
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in the insanity clause or whatever.
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People hate the insanity defense
being successful.
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And it seems to be taken as a given
that if it's a heinous crime,
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that the person's gotta pay for it.
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[reporter 5] Mark David Chapman,
the accused killer
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of former Beatle John Lennon
has pleaded innocent
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to the shooting by reason of insanity.
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[reporter 6] But when Chapman was asked,
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"How do you plead to the charge
of second-degree murder?"
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the answer was,
"Not guilty by reason of insanity."
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{\an8}[Sutherland] Chapman never denies
shooting Lennon.
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{\an8}And after much psychiatric assessment,
including hypnosis,
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his defense team believe he was insane
at the time he pulled the trigger.
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It'll be a controversial defense,
and they prepare their client for trial.
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{\an8}[lawyer] The law is that
if you were legally insane
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{\an8}at the time that you--
that you killed John Lennon,
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then you must be acquitted
by reason of insanity.
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That you don't go to prison,
but instead you go to a state institution.
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- [court member 1] A mental hospital.
- [lawyer] Mental hospital. Exactly.
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Is the question in this trial going
to be his state of mind
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{\an8}the night of the shooting?
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{\an8}Uh, the on-- the only issue in this--
in this trial, really, will be,
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{\an8}uh, whether or not he was, uh, insane
at the time of the-- of the shooting.
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{\an8}And I think that our witnesses
will establish that he was.
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{\an8}Whether or not we can get a jury
to find that he is, uh,
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{\an8}not guilty by reason
of insanity is another question.
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I found that the climate
is extremely hostile towards Mr. Chapman.
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It doesn't come as a surprise, but it is.
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[Suggs] Pretty much everyone was feeling
pretty emotional about this,
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and there was a lot of animosity,
obviously, towards Chapman.
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His last attorney,
he was only on it for, like,
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a couple of days before he quit
because of death threats.
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I know we-- we got some death threats
as well through the mail.
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{\an8}You know, that L-- Lennon was, uh--
was near godlike, and how dare we,
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{\an8}you know, defend this man who,
uh-- who murdered him in cold blood,
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and, "You'll pay the price for this."
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The other element at that time was
the attempted assassination of Reagan.
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And that really kicked up a lot
of public sentiment
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against the insanity defense in general.
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We knew we were gonna
be facing a very, very uphill battle.
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[Sutherland] The prosecution
doesn't accept the insanity plea.
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They believe Chapman
killed Lennon for fame.
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[Hogrefe] In the context
of this interview that I'm having now,
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{\an8}I will not use the defendant's name, uh,
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{\an8}because I don't wish
to be part or parcel, uh, of any,
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um... [stammers] ...situation
which brings attention to him by name.
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So, I will refer
to him repeatedly as "the defendant."
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I will not use his name.
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This defendant wanted to be arrested
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because this was what was going
to bring attention to himself.
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He didn't seek to flee the scene
of the crime.
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{\an8}He could very easily have run
to get into the subway system
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and try to flee in that way,
or flee into the park, but he didn't.
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He just stood there and waited.
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[Suggs] Their theory was
that Chapman was a failure,
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he hadn't succeeded in anything,
he had these delusions of grandeur,
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and he wanted a lot of publicity.
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Is it-- Is it rational, is it sane
for someone to murder some other human
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in cold blood with the--
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the full knowledge
that as a result of that,
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they're likely gonna wind up in,
uh... [stutters] ...prison for life
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or in a mental institution for life?
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So they can, you know,
have an article or two
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on the front page of the papers?
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It just does not make sense.
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[Sutherland] The prosecution will explain
to the jury that Chapman's movements
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before the shooting show
that this was not a random act of madness,
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but instead a meticulously planned murder.
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{\an8}[Taira] The gun used
to kill John Lennon was traced
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{\an8}by New York authorities
to J&S Enterprises.
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A sales receipt shows
the gun was purchased
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by Mark Chapman
on October 27th of this year.
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Guy looked like a normal, uh,
upright human being when he bought it.
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He buys it and goes out and does something
like this six weeks later.
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What the hell can you do, you know?
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[Hogrefe] What the defendant's behavior
leading up to the crime,
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uh, indicated was that he was rational.
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He had the gun-- he came to New York--
but he didn't have any bullets for it.
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Having not been able
to buy bullets in New York,
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he went to visit this
friend of his in the Atlanta, Georgia area
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and got bullets from him.
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Not only that.
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Before the murder,
he had met up with a couple of female fans
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that stood in front of the Dakota
on a regular basis trying to meet
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with John Lennon as he-- as he entered
or left his apartment building.
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So, there was no indication
that he was suffering
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from such a mental disease, uh,
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that would cause him
to not be able to function appropriately.
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[Sutherland] But recordings made
by his defense team at Rikers Island
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before the trial reveal how
incoherent Chapman's thinking is.
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[Chapman] I'm under complete
understanding now of what happened,
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and it's very clear and very rational.
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It is my sincere belief
that I killed John Lennon
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to get as many people as possible
to read The Catcher in the Rye.
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{\an8}[Chapman] All of my efforts will now
be devoted toward this goal.
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{\an8}[Suggs] People ask me, you know,
"Why did he kill Lennon?" I--
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And I said,
"Well, he said, because he wanted
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to promote the reading
of The Catcher in the Rye."
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And they sort of look at me
with puzzlement, and-- and-- and I say,
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"Your-- Your question assumes
that there's some sort of rational reason
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for why, you know,
a crazy man kills another...
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[stammers] ...human in cold blood."
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I said, "You're-- You're not ever gonna
get a rational explanation
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for-- for why a crazy person
did a crazy act."
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The character in the book was a young man
in his teens called Holden Caulfield,
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who goes to New York on a weekend,
and he's disillusioned
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by what he sees as the phoniness
of the world.
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You know... [stutters] ...as a young child,
you're told that the world works one way,
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and as you get older, you see that, uh,
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there are aspects of it that are false
and-- and phony.
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[Sutherland] Chapman tells his
defense team he's the Holden Caulfield
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of his generation and on a mission
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to rid the world
of people he considers phonies.
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[Chapman] Here's what I say
about John Lennon.
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"All you need is love."
Have you ever heard that?
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Well, this is what I say to that:
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All you need is love and $250 million.
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He was the biggest,
phoniest bastard that ever lived.
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I wasn't about to let the world
endure ten more years
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of his menagerie of bullshit.
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In my view,
he was obviously insane, you know,
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when I came across him,
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and we just needed to have a testimony
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that would demonstrate
the fact that, you know,
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he was not in touch with reality, and, um,
you know, is clearly mentally ill.
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You know, trying to find out
why somebody went crazy is a difficult,
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difficult thing to do.
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But there are obviously... [stammers]
...a bunch of people who,
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uh, had some insights.
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So, we went about interviewing, uh,
people who had known him in the past.
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[Sutherland] The defense team travel
to Chapman's hometown in Georgia
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and speak to childhood friends.
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[friend] Well, when I first met Mark,
everything seemed fine.
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The typical American family.
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But as time went on,
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{\an8}I noticed that something dark
was happening.
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He'd be told to "go to your room."
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And then Mark's dad would come in
with a belt and start hitting him,
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even using the buckle end--
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just go into a fit and just pound away.
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But then, uh, he would stop and leave,
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and then you could hear him downstairs,
uh, beating on his mother.
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I mean, he beat the snot out
of his mother.
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And then Mark's dad
would go to the bedroom
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or to wherever the TV was at and sit down,
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and 30 minutes later,
be a completely different person.
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It's just that little click that happened.
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I went up to his house one day,
and he said,
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"Hey, look. I've got some marijuana here."
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But then, uh,
there was mescaline that showed up,
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uh, opium that showed up,
and then the acid
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from California would show up.
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And one particular weekend,
Mark took eight hits of LSD-25,
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which was very powerful,
and disappeared for the weekend.
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Sunday evening,
I got in touch with Mark, and I said,
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"Where were you at all weekend?"
He said, "Man, you won't believe it.
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[stammers] I-- I saw Jesus Christ
and he was just beautiful,
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and he was talking to me."
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[Sutherland] Chapman's chaotic childhood
leads him to the local church in Atlanta.
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[pastor] Mark was kind of a loner, uh,
didn't have lots of friends,
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and I got the impression that, uh,
his home life was an unhappy home life.
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{\an8}He-- He was playing around
with drugs and was very, very
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{\an8}uh, involved in hard rock,
acid rock music.
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In the South, in those days,
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people would identify
with the local church and, uh,
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most of them would be pretty active
and pretty faithful in the church.
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Mark had no church background
that I know of.
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And so, when he professed faith in Christ,
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it was my privilege to baptize him
in this very sanctuary,
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and to shepherd him.
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He immediately found a group
of people who loved him and accepted him.
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And he was quite attracted
to one of the girls in the youth group.
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Um, uh, Jessica.
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[woman] I usually start by saying,
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00:14:04,429 --> 00:14:10,602
{\an8}"I used to date Mark Chapman
who later on killed John Lennon,"
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and... [stammers]
...everybody's really shocked.
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[Sutherland] Ex-girlfriend,
Jessica Blankenship,
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might prove a key witness
at Chapman's trial.
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00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:24,157
[Blankenship] I was 16,
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and I was at a retreat, um,
with my church.
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Someone had invited him to come.
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I just thought he was kind of cool
and sensitive, you know.
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00:14:36,878 --> 00:14:40,799
His feelings really came through
when he talked.
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00:14:41,633 --> 00:14:44,219
He just had a great sense of humor.
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And I guess I was smitten. [chuckles]
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He was, um, an excellent guitar player,
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00:14:57,148 --> 00:14:59,317
and he could play anything.
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00:14:59,943 --> 00:15:05,031
Um, he particularly loved the Beatles
until John Lennon said
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00:15:05,532 --> 00:15:09,077
that they were more popular
than Jesus Christ.
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00:15:13,707 --> 00:15:19,462
He wanted to learn more about the Bible
and grow deeper in his faith.
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What the problem was,
he got very depressed.
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He would just sort
of pour his heart out about how, uh,
225
00:15:28,763 --> 00:15:30,181
sad he was,
226
00:15:30,181 --> 00:15:34,561
and he just didn't feel
like he could make it.
227
00:15:35,353 --> 00:15:38,315
I felt like he was having
a nervous breakdown.
228
00:15:41,943 --> 00:15:47,365
I was actually begging him
to get some psychological help,
229
00:15:47,365 --> 00:15:48,950
and he would say,
230
00:15:48,950 --> 00:15:51,661
"I don't need to talk to anybody."
[chuckles]
231
00:15:52,954 --> 00:15:56,917
He also, at that point,
started yelling at me,
232
00:15:57,709 --> 00:16:03,048
and this was about the time I believe
the relationship started falling apart.
233
00:16:07,344 --> 00:16:08,929
[Sutherland]
The breakdown of this relationship
234
00:16:08,929 --> 00:16:11,348
means Chapman's looking for a fresh start.
235
00:16:12,682 --> 00:16:14,809
He decides to move to Hawaii.
236
00:16:15,685 --> 00:16:18,813
[Chapman] Think about it.
Hawaii, beautiful place to live.
237
00:16:18,813 --> 00:16:22,359
Weather's perfect. Then it would be ideal.
238
00:16:22,359 --> 00:16:24,694
It would be like the Garden of the Eden.
239
00:16:24,694 --> 00:16:26,821
But I was getting depressed again,
240
00:16:27,322 --> 00:16:29,658
and I was just sick
and tired of everything,
241
00:16:30,325 --> 00:16:35,413
things I thought were gonna be so good
and they turned out the exact opposite.
242
00:16:42,045 --> 00:16:47,259
[Blankenship] He drove to this
beautiful spot near the ocean,
243
00:16:47,259 --> 00:16:51,763
and, um, he took a ho-- hose
244
00:16:51,763 --> 00:16:54,724
and took it from the exhaust pipe,
245
00:16:54,724 --> 00:16:58,687
um, and back into the, um, car.
246
00:16:58,687 --> 00:17:01,565
And then he just sat there,
waiting to die.
247
00:17:05,776 --> 00:17:10,489
[Chapman] It was a relief when I realized
that I was gonna be dead.
248
00:17:11,157 --> 00:17:12,492
Life sure stinks.
249
00:17:16,746 --> 00:17:19,791
[Sutherland] The defense team
believe the suicide attempt is evidence
250
00:17:19,791 --> 00:17:21,918
of Chapman's mental health issues,
251
00:17:22,419 --> 00:17:26,631
but it only reinforces the prosecution's
belief he craves attention.
252
00:17:27,757 --> 00:17:32,304
[Hogrefe] He had engaged in what
I would call a feigned suicide attempt.
253
00:17:32,304 --> 00:17:36,224
Again, activity designed
to bring attention to himself.
254
00:17:38,143 --> 00:17:43,231
This was a 25-year-old person
who had engaged in conduct in the past--
255
00:17:43,231 --> 00:17:46,151
none of which was
particularly noteworthy-- uh,
256
00:17:46,151 --> 00:17:49,446
who was frustrated by that,
and-- and had a, uh,
257
00:17:49,446 --> 00:17:52,949
personality disorder that felt
that he was worthy of attention.
258
00:17:54,159 --> 00:17:59,998
It is incredibly unfortunate
that he sought to, uh,
259
00:18:00,790 --> 00:18:04,211
bring that attention
to himself by stealing, uh,
260
00:18:04,211 --> 00:18:07,172
the-- the-- the-- the fame
of someone like John Lennon.
261
00:18:12,969 --> 00:18:15,388
[sirens wailing]
262
00:18:16,806 --> 00:18:20,644
[Sutherland] The world's media now gather
for the trial of Mark Chapman.
263
00:18:21,978 --> 00:18:24,731
They hope to finally understand
why a global icon
264
00:18:25,232 --> 00:18:27,150
has been gunned down in cold blood.
265
00:18:29,611 --> 00:18:32,280
[reporter 7] In New York,
two dozen spectators were searched
266
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,492
and admitted to the opening
of the trial of Mark Chapman.
267
00:18:36,743 --> 00:18:39,037
[reporter 8] It was the first day
of jury selection,
268
00:18:39,037 --> 00:18:40,830
the beginning of a long trial.
269
00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:44,960
A mob of reporters and some spectators
waited to get into the courtroom.
270
00:18:47,796 --> 00:18:49,256
{\an8}[Shipp] I love trials.
271
00:18:50,006 --> 00:18:53,385
{\an8}I find this great opportunity
to see drama.
272
00:18:53,385 --> 00:18:56,054
{\an8}There's a certain kind
of excitement that kicks in
273
00:18:56,054 --> 00:18:58,765
{\an8}and the adrenaline goes up a notch.
274
00:19:01,268 --> 00:19:06,773
I was a rookie reporter,
and this was one of my first big stories.
275
00:19:07,357 --> 00:19:09,025
The whole world was watching.
276
00:19:09,693 --> 00:19:12,195
He really did intend to kill John Lennon.
277
00:19:12,195 --> 00:19:15,907
He really did know what he was doing
when he killed John Lennon.
278
00:19:16,491 --> 00:19:18,326
[Sutherland] Emotions are running high
279
00:19:18,326 --> 00:19:21,371
and opinions around Chapman
remain divided.
280
00:19:22,205 --> 00:19:23,540
We love John!
281
00:19:23,540 --> 00:19:26,668
For killing the legend, a loved,
peacing man like John Lennon.
282
00:19:27,168 --> 00:19:29,421
- He should get the death penalty.
- John believed in peace.
283
00:19:29,421 --> 00:19:31,506
To anyone out there
who's a true John Lennon fan,
284
00:19:32,007 --> 00:19:33,300
don't touch the guy.
285
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:36,052
'Cause John Lennon just wouldn't like it.
It's not what he was on about.
286
00:19:36,052 --> 00:19:37,345
John Lennon was on about forgiveness.
287
00:19:37,345 --> 00:19:40,390
People are people, no matter what--
what they turn out like.
288
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:42,976
How sick-- The guy's just sick.
That's all there is to it.
289
00:19:44,477 --> 00:19:48,440
[Hogrefe] I'm sure some of his friends
would say his activity was not normal,
290
00:19:48,940 --> 00:19:52,777
but there was no evidence
to suggest that he was suffering
291
00:19:52,777 --> 00:19:56,573
{\an8}from a mental disease so severe
that he didn't know
292
00:19:56,573 --> 00:19:58,700
{\an8}what he was doing or that it was wrong.
293
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,411
That is the key issue in the case.
294
00:20:02,662 --> 00:20:05,707
[Shipp] It was a lot of excitement
as we gathered there
295
00:20:05,707 --> 00:20:07,042
outside of that courtroom,
296
00:20:07,042 --> 00:20:11,713
waiting for the doors to open
and the games to begin.
297
00:20:12,923 --> 00:20:14,716
[reporter 9] This was the scene
on the 13th floor
298
00:20:14,716 --> 00:20:17,302
{\an8}outside Judge Dennis Edwards' courtroom.
299
00:20:17,302 --> 00:20:20,263
The hallway was crawling
with reporters and crews flown in
300
00:20:20,263 --> 00:20:23,141
from all over the world
for the sensational murder case.
301
00:20:23,808 --> 00:20:26,853
So everybody was outside of the courtroom,
302
00:20:27,354 --> 00:20:29,397
waiting for the doors to open.
303
00:20:30,649 --> 00:20:34,277
But after an hour went by and even more,
304
00:20:34,778 --> 00:20:36,988
we began to worry
that something was going on
305
00:20:36,988 --> 00:20:38,782
and we were not a part of it.
306
00:20:44,871 --> 00:20:48,625
[Hogrefe] The judge decided
in his discretion to close the courtroom.
307
00:20:48,625 --> 00:20:51,920
So the only people that were there,
uh, were myself,
308
00:20:53,004 --> 00:20:57,425
the senior prosecutor,
the defense attorneys and the judge.
309
00:20:58,802 --> 00:21:01,304
[Sutherland] Behind the closed doors
of the courtroom,
310
00:21:01,304 --> 00:21:03,515
events take an unexpected turn.
311
00:21:05,225 --> 00:21:09,854
Chapman has pleaded guilty.
[chuckles] And we were going, "What?"
312
00:21:12,357 --> 00:21:15,402
[Sutherland] Even more bizarre
is the reason Chapman gives
313
00:21:15,402 --> 00:21:17,404
for his sudden guilty plea.
314
00:21:18,613 --> 00:21:22,409
{\an8}He said God came to him in his cell
and told him to plead guilty,
315
00:21:22,909 --> 00:21:26,621
{\an8}um, and that he felt a great sense
of relief after that.
316
00:21:28,623 --> 00:21:30,792
[Chapman]
I'm sitting in front of the radio,
317
00:21:30,792 --> 00:21:32,502
listening to rock music,
318
00:21:33,336 --> 00:21:35,714
{\an8}and I just felt the Holy Spirit talk
to my heart.
319
00:21:35,714 --> 00:21:41,469
And-- And I knew that evening, you know,
the Lord wanted me to plead guilty.
320
00:21:41,469 --> 00:21:44,556
{\an8}Uh, but I didn't want to.
I wanted to go ahead with it.
321
00:21:45,515 --> 00:21:46,725
{\an8}[gavel banging]
322
00:21:46,725 --> 00:21:48,810
[Suggs] We told the judge that it was,
you know,
323
00:21:48,810 --> 00:21:50,729
further evidence of his insanity.
324
00:21:51,605 --> 00:21:55,609
And that's when the judge said,
"I have relatives who believe they speak
325
00:21:55,609 --> 00:21:58,403
with God every day, and I'm not
about to say that they're insane."
326
00:21:58,403 --> 00:22:00,363
And that was pretty much the end of it.
327
00:22:00,947 --> 00:22:03,617
{\an8}God told him to do it.
That's why Mark David Chapman
328
00:22:03,617 --> 00:22:06,411
{\an8}claims he switched his plea
from innocent to guilty
329
00:22:06,411 --> 00:22:08,204
in the killing
of former Beatle John Lennon.
330
00:22:09,789 --> 00:22:12,459
[Suggs] If a judge has a defendant
before him who's willing
331
00:22:12,459 --> 00:22:18,048
to-- to plead guilty and forgo a trial,
from the judge's perspective, that's fine.
332
00:22:21,218 --> 00:22:23,053
To some extent,
I wasn't surprised, I mean,
333
00:22:23,053 --> 00:22:26,306
'cause he had--
he had talked earlier before
334
00:22:26,306 --> 00:22:29,768
about how he was afraid
that if he went to a mental hospital,
335
00:22:30,518 --> 00:22:32,562
he was gonna be surrounded
by demons everywhere.
336
00:22:33,188 --> 00:22:34,481
And he was just adamant:
337
00:22:34,481 --> 00:22:37,692
He did not want to go
to a mental hospital,
338
00:22:38,318 --> 00:22:42,197
even though he was obviously crazy.
[chuckles]
339
00:22:42,197 --> 00:22:45,659
Chapman's plea cuts off a trial
that could have revealed his reasons
340
00:22:45,659 --> 00:22:49,120
for pumping four bullets into one
of the greatest stars of modern music.
341
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,497
[reporter 10]
Defense attorney Jonathan Marks
342
00:22:50,497 --> 00:22:53,541
said he was very disappointed
by his client's decision.
343
00:22:53,541 --> 00:22:56,419
{\an8}Was, uh, greatly looking forward
to what would have been
344
00:22:56,419 --> 00:23:01,633
{\an8}I think, uh, a very exciting... [stammers]
...and interesting and useful trial.
345
00:23:01,633 --> 00:23:03,051
Because I think
that there are a lot of people
346
00:23:03,051 --> 00:23:05,011
who would have been educated about, uh--
347
00:23:05,595 --> 00:23:08,431
about Mark Chapman and about
the insanity defense as a result of it.
348
00:23:08,431 --> 00:23:10,559
- Do you think he is insane?
- Yes, I certainly do.
349
00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:12,394
- There's no doubt in my mind about that.
- Legally insane?
350
00:23:12,394 --> 00:23:13,603
Legally insane. That's correct.
351
00:23:14,688 --> 00:23:17,399
{\an8}[sirens wailing]
352
00:23:22,362 --> 00:23:26,700
[sighs] Yeah, obviously,
the psychiatric testimony
353
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:29,619
would have been, uh, critical.
354
00:23:30,328 --> 00:23:35,375
The prosecution-- their description
that he was seeking attention,
355
00:23:35,875 --> 00:23:38,044
that he had these delusions of grandeur--
356
00:23:38,545 --> 00:23:42,382
yes, it was a partial description
of Chapman and his conduct,
357
00:23:42,382 --> 00:23:44,968
but it was by no means a full picture.
358
00:23:45,635 --> 00:23:49,931
The depths of his insanity
were far greater
359
00:23:49,931 --> 00:23:51,433
than they were willing to acknowledge.
360
00:23:54,728 --> 00:23:57,439
[Sutherland] Dr. Liza Gold
is a forensic psychiatrist
361
00:23:57,439 --> 00:23:59,816
specializing in the insanity defense.
362
00:24:00,775 --> 00:24:02,944
She wasn't involved in Chapman's case,
363
00:24:03,445 --> 00:24:06,114
but assesses decisions made at the time.
364
00:24:06,740 --> 00:24:09,743
The lawyer said,
"I don't think he's competent."
365
00:24:10,285 --> 00:24:13,204
I'm not sure why a judge would--
would say,
366
00:24:13,204 --> 00:24:15,665
"Well, I think he is."
[stammers] He's a judge.
367
00:24:15,665 --> 00:24:17,542
He's not a mental health professional.
368
00:24:17,542 --> 00:24:20,045
I would have voted for him
to get another competency hearing.
369
00:24:23,089 --> 00:24:25,634
I would want someone to ask him, you know,
370
00:24:25,634 --> 00:24:28,261
"Why are you changing your mind?"
371
00:24:28,261 --> 00:24:33,058
My suspicion is that he was starting
to fray under the stress
372
00:24:33,058 --> 00:24:36,436
of an upcoming high-profile media circus.
373
00:24:38,021 --> 00:24:40,440
[Sutherland] Awaiting sentencing
at Rikers Island,
374
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,236
the full extent of Chapman's mental state
is becoming apparent.
375
00:24:45,695 --> 00:24:48,240
[Suggs] This is a memo I wrote
to the file.
376
00:24:48,949 --> 00:24:54,079
"On July 12, 1981, Mark Chapman
underwent a violent psychotic episode
377
00:24:54,079 --> 00:24:56,873
at Rikers Island Prison Hospital.
378
00:24:57,374 --> 00:24:59,584
He threw a chair at a television set
379
00:24:59,584 --> 00:25:03,213
and taunted in a high-pitched voice
saying that he was a demon.
380
00:25:03,964 --> 00:25:06,675
He was then locked in his cell
and began jumping around,
381
00:25:06,675 --> 00:25:10,804
climbing the bars of his cell,
and screeching and hooting like a monkey."
382
00:25:13,390 --> 00:25:15,517
By the time I saw him,
he had been medicated
383
00:25:15,517 --> 00:25:17,811
with a powerful antipsychotic drug.
384
00:25:17,811 --> 00:25:21,898
He told me that he... [stammers]
...was possessed by two demons.
385
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:25,443
He had already pleaded guilty.
386
00:25:25,443 --> 00:25:28,280
He had nothing to gain by this.
387
00:25:29,364 --> 00:25:31,324
I thought that
was pretty powerful evidence
388
00:25:31,324 --> 00:25:33,326
for, uh, again, his insanity.
389
00:25:39,541 --> 00:25:41,585
[Sutherland] In the months
after the shooting,
390
00:25:41,585 --> 00:25:45,297
Yoko is still coming to terms
with the sudden loss of John.
391
00:25:45,922 --> 00:25:48,633
[Ono] We were doing very well
in New York together,
392
00:25:49,384 --> 00:25:50,802
and that's gone, you know.
393
00:25:50,802 --> 00:25:54,180
And the-- the fact
that he was gone so suddenly too,
394
00:25:54,180 --> 00:25:58,226
I think that affected me
because if it was a slow process,
395
00:25:58,226 --> 00:26:00,145
we could have talked about it or anything.
396
00:26:00,645 --> 00:26:05,859
But the-- the last John I remember
is a very gregarious,
397
00:26:06,484 --> 00:26:08,945
energetic, high-spirited guy. Hmm.
398
00:26:16,828 --> 00:26:20,081
[Sutherland] Mark Chapman now appears
in public for sentencing.
399
00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:23,001
It's a final chance for his legal team
400
00:26:23,001 --> 00:26:26,213
to request leniency based
on his mental health.
401
00:26:27,005 --> 00:26:29,424
[reporter 11] Authorities take
no chances with Chapman.
402
00:26:29,424 --> 00:26:32,177
Figuring there are too many
die-hard Lennon fans around,
403
00:26:32,677 --> 00:26:36,681
Chapman arrived at court this morning
unseen under tight security.
404
00:26:36,681 --> 00:26:38,350
[Hogrefe] When the defendant
was sentenced,
405
00:26:38,350 --> 00:26:41,311
uh, the-the courtroom was open,
so the members of the public,
406
00:26:41,311 --> 00:26:42,729
uh, packed the courtroom.
407
00:26:43,396 --> 00:26:45,982
{\an8}Uh, the first couple of rows
in the courtroom filled with,
408
00:26:45,982 --> 00:26:48,610
{\an8}uh-- with reporters and--
and members of the press.
409
00:26:48,610 --> 00:26:51,196
{\an8}[reporter 12] Guards used
metal detectors to search everyone
410
00:26:51,196 --> 00:26:52,739
who entered the courtroom.
411
00:26:52,739 --> 00:26:54,115
Inside, Mark David Chapman,
412
00:26:54,115 --> 00:26:55,742
wearing a bulletproof vest
under his shirt,
413
00:26:55,742 --> 00:26:59,579
{\an8}sat clutching a paperback copy
of J. D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye.
414
00:27:00,205 --> 00:27:03,375
{\an8}[Shipp] We'd seen Chapman
in the initial arraignment,
415
00:27:03,375 --> 00:27:06,628
and we'd seen Chapman
after he had pleaded guilty.
416
00:27:07,254 --> 00:27:11,216
The sentencing became
an opportunity to actually hear him.
417
00:27:11,216 --> 00:27:13,426
[reporter 13] Chapman made
no reference to the man he killed
418
00:27:13,426 --> 00:27:16,513
when he took the judge up on his offer
to address the court.
419
00:27:16,513 --> 00:27:19,432
Instead, Chapman read a passage
from the book he's carried
420
00:27:19,432 --> 00:27:21,601
with him through most
of the court proceedings,
421
00:27:21,601 --> 00:27:23,937
J. D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye.
422
00:27:26,273 --> 00:27:28,275
[Gold] He never articulates a reason
423
00:27:28,275 --> 00:27:32,529
why publicizing the book
is such a good thing.
424
00:27:34,489 --> 00:27:36,533
He felt this book was so important
425
00:27:37,617 --> 00:27:40,453
that it was his statement
to commit an act like this.
426
00:27:41,162 --> 00:27:42,622
{\an8}You wanna know something?
427
00:27:43,415 --> 00:27:46,209
{\an8}Everybody on the case read it but me.
428
00:27:47,210 --> 00:27:48,753
{\an8}I just didn't buy it.
429
00:27:50,714 --> 00:27:54,509
This is the first time I'm admitting
publicly that I did not read this book.
430
00:27:57,095 --> 00:27:59,806
{\an8}[Gold] He tries to get his name changed
to Holden Caulfield.
431
00:27:59,806 --> 00:28:04,185
{\an8}You know, he's--
he's trying to be those people.
432
00:28:04,185 --> 00:28:06,187
There is really-- isn't a rational reason
433
00:28:06,187 --> 00:28:08,732
for thinking you're gonna turn
into somebody else,
434
00:28:08,732 --> 00:28:11,443
but it says how much he doesn't
want to be him.
435
00:28:15,906 --> 00:28:18,033
[reporter 14] Today,
two of Chapman's psychiatrists
436
00:28:18,033 --> 00:28:19,534
urged more treatment for him.
437
00:28:19,534 --> 00:28:22,120
[Hoffman] They got a shrink
that said he was crazy,
438
00:28:23,204 --> 00:28:26,458
so we got a shrink
that said he's not crazy.
439
00:28:26,958 --> 00:28:29,794
Then they got another shrink
to say he's crazy,
440
00:28:29,794 --> 00:28:32,047
and we got another one to say he's not.
441
00:28:32,631 --> 00:28:36,009
All I know is, I spoke to a lot
of psychiatrists on the job,
442
00:28:36,885 --> 00:28:39,638
and most of them are crazy themselves.
443
00:28:39,638 --> 00:28:41,306
[reporter 15] Today,
Mark David Chapman was sentenced
444
00:28:41,306 --> 00:28:42,766
to 20 years to life for the murder
445
00:28:42,766 --> 00:28:44,684
- of former Beatle John Lennon.
- [reporter 16] ...Chapman was sentenced
446
00:28:44,684 --> 00:28:47,062
to 20 years to life for the murder
of John Lennon.
447
00:28:47,062 --> 00:28:49,105
[reporter 17] There was also
no question he was criminally responsible
448
00:28:49,105 --> 00:28:50,774
for a premeditated act of murder.
449
00:28:51,942 --> 00:28:55,237
[reporter 18] The defense attorney didn't
dispute the facts, just the conclusion.
450
00:28:55,237 --> 00:28:56,738
Absolutely.
It certainly was carefully planned.
451
00:28:56,738 --> 00:28:59,532
It was well carried out.
It was intentional. It was also insane.
452
00:28:59,532 --> 00:29:01,243
[reporter 19] You are Marks, right?
453
00:29:01,910 --> 00:29:05,830
[Suggs] At that point, Jonathan and I both
knew he was gonna be in prison
454
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:08,959
for the rest of his life,
and that if he was in prison,
455
00:29:08,959 --> 00:29:11,962
he wasn't gonna be getting
any psychiatric treatment.
456
00:29:11,962 --> 00:29:14,965
Um, and that didn't seem
like the right result to me.
457
00:29:22,305 --> 00:29:26,017
[Sutherland] Yoko remains at
the Dakota building with their son, Sean,
458
00:29:26,518 --> 00:29:28,395
trying to process what's happened.
459
00:29:30,272 --> 00:29:33,984
[Ono] The only thing that I regret
is the fact that John had to die the--
460
00:29:33,984 --> 00:29:35,402
the way he did, you know.
461
00:29:35,902 --> 00:29:39,781
And some people say
if John was not in America, uh,
462
00:29:39,781 --> 00:29:43,159
if he was in a-- Britain,
for instance, he wouldn't have,
463
00:29:43,159 --> 00:29:45,412
uh, been, uh, shot to death.
464
00:29:45,412 --> 00:29:47,831
Maybe we should have been more careful.
465
00:29:52,002 --> 00:29:53,253
[photographer] After John died,
466
00:29:53,253 --> 00:29:56,006
it was such an enormous shock
for all of us.
467
00:29:56,590 --> 00:29:58,258
We were all pretty numb.
468
00:29:58,258 --> 00:30:01,887
Uh, Yoko was quite a pillar
of strength in that time.
469
00:30:01,887 --> 00:30:05,849
And John did not die
because he committed suicide
470
00:30:05,849 --> 00:30:09,936
or he was drugged or--
or he w-- he had a heart attack.
471
00:30:09,936 --> 00:30:12,564
No, John was, um, killed,
472
00:30:13,064 --> 00:30:16,401
and it was very important
for me to show that to the world.
473
00:30:17,277 --> 00:30:22,073
And both John and I were always
trying to make a peaceful world.
474
00:30:22,699 --> 00:30:27,037
And it's very ironical that John,
who loved peace so much,
475
00:30:27,037 --> 00:30:28,997
died in such a violent way.
476
00:30:30,665 --> 00:30:34,544
[Gruen] I remember Yoko saying that
when the leader with the flag goes down...
477
00:30:35,295 --> 00:30:37,923
[clicks tongue] ...someone else has
to pick up that flag and keep going.
478
00:30:40,550 --> 00:30:41,718
[Sutherland] Yoko eventually found a way
479
00:30:41,718 --> 00:30:44,888
of turning John's death
into a force for good.
480
00:30:45,388 --> 00:30:48,266
[Gruen] When she shared the picture
of John's bloody glasses
481
00:30:48,266 --> 00:30:49,392
as an album cover,
482
00:30:49,392 --> 00:30:52,729
a lot of people were very horrified
that she could do something like that.
483
00:30:53,230 --> 00:30:57,943
Uh, she called me that morning to help her
take the picture of the glasses.
484
00:30:58,443 --> 00:31:01,154
Um, I went to the Dakota
and I set up some lights,
485
00:31:01,154 --> 00:31:04,741
and she wanted to have the glasses
on a windowsill with a glass of water,
486
00:31:04,741 --> 00:31:07,369
and Central Park on the other side
of the window.
487
00:31:09,037 --> 00:31:12,582
I felt it was her picture to take,
and so I took my other camera
488
00:31:12,582 --> 00:31:14,960
and took a picture
of her taking the picture.
489
00:31:15,877 --> 00:31:18,505
Now, when you look
at that picture of the glasses,
490
00:31:18,505 --> 00:31:21,091
you feel that horror.
491
00:31:21,091 --> 00:31:25,595
And that is one tiny bit
of what Yoko actually feels,
492
00:31:25,595 --> 00:31:26,680
because she was there.
493
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,181
She saw the glasses happen.
494
00:31:28,765 --> 00:31:31,101
But if you feel that bad looking
at a picture of it,
495
00:31:31,101 --> 00:31:34,688
you can imagine a little bit
of how Yoko's feeling.
496
00:31:37,148 --> 00:31:41,444
[Ono] The glasses that he was wearing,
um, in the last moment,
497
00:31:42,404 --> 00:31:47,450
it was, uh, a kind of statement
about how important to have gun control.
498
00:31:47,951 --> 00:31:50,370
[protesters clamoring]
499
00:31:53,707 --> 00:31:55,458
Something has to be done about the guns,
500
00:31:55,458 --> 00:31:59,170
gun control,
and the minds of this country,
501
00:31:59,170 --> 00:32:00,881
the people who carry guns.
502
00:32:00,881 --> 00:32:02,465
It's-- It's horrible.
503
00:32:02,465 --> 00:32:06,553
If Chapman had a knife instead of a gun,
John Lennon might still be alive.
504
00:32:07,262 --> 00:32:11,725
Guns are very lethal.
There's no turning back.
505
00:32:13,351 --> 00:32:17,480
{\an8}The final decision to do it
can actually be quite impulsive.
506
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,816
And that's what appeared
to happen with Chapman.
507
00:32:25,196 --> 00:32:28,783
[Sutherland] Chapman has spent
nearly ten years in solitary confinement
508
00:32:28,783 --> 00:32:31,745
when he accepts an offer
to be interviewed in prison
509
00:32:31,745 --> 00:32:34,331
by US talk show host, Larry King.
510
00:32:34,331 --> 00:32:37,417
{\an8}[announcer] Tonight,
12 years ago, the music died
511
00:32:37,417 --> 00:32:41,296
{\an8}when Mark David Chapman shot
and killed former Beatle John Lennon...
512
00:32:42,297 --> 00:32:45,634
{\an8}[Sutherland] It's the first time
the American public has heard directly
513
00:32:45,634 --> 00:32:47,135
from John Lennon's killer.
514
00:32:47,844 --> 00:32:52,224
Mark David Chapman joins us
from Attica Correctional Facility on this,
515
00:32:52,224 --> 00:32:55,435
the 12th anniversary
of John Lennon's death.
516
00:32:55,435 --> 00:32:58,521
{\an8}Mark, why-- why now?
Why tell the story now?
517
00:32:59,606 --> 00:33:01,566
{\an8}Well, Larry, I'm-- I'm well now.
518
00:33:01,566 --> 00:33:05,070
{\an8}I've had a number of years of--
of wellness.
519
00:33:05,904 --> 00:33:07,072
{\an8}I feel good.
520
00:33:07,072 --> 00:33:10,784
{\an8}There's always been things inside
of me that I wanted to-- to get out,
521
00:33:10,784 --> 00:33:13,078
{\an8}to tell people why I did what I did.
522
00:33:14,329 --> 00:33:16,498
Back then, I was lost.
523
00:33:17,123 --> 00:33:20,919
And I didn't know who I was, but now I do.
524
00:33:21,419 --> 00:33:26,758
{\an8}Uh, therefore, you-- you have
to have daily regrets.
525
00:33:28,552 --> 00:33:31,930
{\an8}I have regrets. I'm sorry for what I did.
526
00:33:33,056 --> 00:33:36,768
{\an8}I realize now
that I-- I really ended a man's life.
527
00:33:37,477 --> 00:33:39,854
{\an8}Then, he was an album cover to me.
528
00:33:39,854 --> 00:33:42,607
{\an8}He didn't exist,
even when I met him earlier that day
529
00:33:42,607 --> 00:33:46,236
{\an8}when he signed the album for me,
which he did very graciously.
530
00:33:46,987 --> 00:33:50,907
{\an8}And he was not a phony, by the way.
He was, uh, very patient.
531
00:33:50,907 --> 00:33:52,492
I just saw him as a--
532
00:33:53,577 --> 00:33:57,080
- as a two-dimensional celebrity...
- Okay.
533
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,707
{\an8}- ...with no real feelings.
- What cured
534
00:33:58,707 --> 00:34:00,917
{\an8}what you believe was schizophrenia?
535
00:34:01,793 --> 00:34:07,424
{\an8}Well, not medication and not doctors,
but the Lord.
536
00:34:07,424 --> 00:34:10,093
Mark David Chapman
was a failure in his own mind.
537
00:34:11,428 --> 00:34:14,681
He wanted to become
somebody important, Larry.
538
00:34:15,557 --> 00:34:18,268
He didn't know how
to handle being a nobody.
539
00:34:18,268 --> 00:34:22,771
He tried to be a-- a somebody
through his years.
540
00:34:22,771 --> 00:34:25,733
But as he progressively got worse--
541
00:34:25,733 --> 00:34:27,693
And I believe I was
schizophrenic at the time.
542
00:34:27,693 --> 00:34:29,528
- No one can tell me I wasn't.
- Hmm.
543
00:34:29,528 --> 00:34:34,326
Although I was responsible,
Mark David Chapman struck out
544
00:34:34,326 --> 00:34:36,661
at something he perceived to be phony,
545
00:34:36,661 --> 00:34:39,831
something he was angry at,
to become something he wasn't,
546
00:34:39,831 --> 00:34:41,041
to become somebody.
547
00:34:41,624 --> 00:34:43,919
[reporter 20] Chapman says
he's a changed man,
548
00:34:43,919 --> 00:34:46,796
a born-again Christian,
sorry for what he did.
549
00:34:49,132 --> 00:34:53,260
Now for the first time,
and after almost 20 years in prison,
550
00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:57,390
Chapman goes before the parole board
today seeking his freedom.
551
00:34:58,016 --> 00:34:59,976
[reporter 21] Yoko Ono wrote
to the parole board
552
00:34:59,976 --> 00:35:04,731
that "should Chapman be released,
myself and John's two sons Sean and Julian
553
00:35:04,731 --> 00:35:07,275
would not feel safe
for the rest of our lives."
554
00:35:07,275 --> 00:35:09,486
[interviewer]
Should Mark David Chapman be forgiven?
555
00:35:12,364 --> 00:35:17,744
Um... I know that the pope,
556
00:35:18,286 --> 00:35:20,538
uh, went to the jail and, uh,
557
00:35:20,538 --> 00:35:26,336
visited the jail, uh, and, uh--
and, uh, forgave this person
558
00:35:26,336 --> 00:35:29,256
who was trying to assassinate him,
something like that.
559
00:35:29,256 --> 00:35:32,384
But I'm not a pope...
[chuckles] ...and it's, um,
560
00:35:32,384 --> 00:35:35,470
very difficult for me
to forgive what happened.
561
00:35:36,429 --> 00:35:39,057
{\an8}[reporter 22] This is Mark David Chapman's
third parole board hearing.
562
00:35:39,057 --> 00:35:40,725
{\an8}He is now 49 years old
563
00:35:40,725 --> 00:35:44,312
{\an8}an inmate at Attica State Prison
for nearly 24 years.
564
00:35:45,105 --> 00:35:48,400
[Sutherland] Chapman has been eligible
for parole since the year 2000
565
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,820
and at every opportunity it's been denied.
566
00:35:52,487 --> 00:35:54,489
[interviewee] I think it's just terrible
that someone
567
00:35:54,489 --> 00:35:55,949
who killed a member of the Beatles
568
00:35:55,949 --> 00:35:59,369
is going to potentially
be let out of prison.
569
00:36:01,788 --> 00:36:03,331
[McGowan] I do still see him.
570
00:36:04,082 --> 00:36:06,209
He's paid a bigger penalty
than a lot of people realize
571
00:36:06,209 --> 00:36:09,004
because he's having
to live in isolation in prison.
572
00:36:09,713 --> 00:36:12,507
He can't even go to chapel services
because of fear of harm
573
00:36:12,507 --> 00:36:14,426
to him from other prisoners.
574
00:36:17,304 --> 00:36:18,930
Under any other circumstance,
575
00:36:18,930 --> 00:36:21,558
{\an8}he would have been tried
as an insane person.
576
00:36:21,558 --> 00:36:25,061
When he talked about the-- the struggle
and the compulsion that he had,
577
00:36:25,061 --> 00:36:27,063
we'd call that a psychosis.
578
00:36:28,732 --> 00:36:30,734
If he had shot somebody who wasn't famous,
579
00:36:30,734 --> 00:36:34,237
I don't think he'd be in prison today.
But he shot the wrong man.
580
00:36:35,906 --> 00:36:38,700
I'm absolutely convinced
that he's no longer dangerous.
581
00:36:40,410 --> 00:36:43,038
The man who tried
to kill President Reagan,
582
00:36:43,038 --> 00:36:46,333
uh, he just was released
and he was judged to be insane.
583
00:36:47,292 --> 00:36:51,171
[Sutherland] John Hinckley Jr.
was found not guilty by reason of insanity
584
00:36:51,171 --> 00:36:53,215
for the shooting of President Reagan.
585
00:36:53,215 --> 00:36:55,383
[reporter 23]
John Hinckley Jr. will be freed
586
00:36:55,383 --> 00:37:00,013
after 35 years and released
to live with his mother.
587
00:37:00,764 --> 00:37:03,600
{\an8}[Sutherland] He was successfully treated
in a psychiatric hospital
588
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:06,770
{\an8}and is no longer deemed
a danger to society.
589
00:37:07,437 --> 00:37:12,150
{\an8}I'm here today to call
on the New York State Parole Board
590
00:37:12,150 --> 00:37:16,571
{\an8}to deny the release of Mark Chapman.
591
00:37:17,405 --> 00:37:20,242
{\an8}[Sutherland] Mark Chapman meanwhile
remains in prison
592
00:37:20,242 --> 00:37:22,953
{\an8}with limited access
to psychiatric treatment.
593
00:37:25,789 --> 00:37:28,667
{\an8}[Suggs] You know, I try to have
compassion for all my clients,
594
00:37:28,667 --> 00:37:30,835
{\an8}uh, you know, and-- and sometimes that's--
595
00:37:30,835 --> 00:37:33,505
that's harder to do than--
than other times.
596
00:37:33,505 --> 00:37:35,590
And I had-- I had compassion for him.
597
00:37:35,590 --> 00:37:37,551
I mean, who could explain
why somebody goes crazy?
598
00:37:37,551 --> 00:37:41,429
I mean, I-- I don't think he--
he wanted to c-- You know,
599
00:37:41,429 --> 00:37:42,722
if he'd had a choice,
600
00:37:42,722 --> 00:37:47,310
I don't think he would have chosen
to be crazy, um, but he was, you know.
601
00:37:47,310 --> 00:37:52,107
And, um, so I had compassion
for him because of that.
602
00:37:57,737 --> 00:38:00,323
[Sutherland] John Lennon died
over 40 years ago,
603
00:38:01,616 --> 00:38:05,579
but the words from that final interview
still resonate today.
604
00:38:07,664 --> 00:38:10,458
{\an8}[Lennon] Seemed like
the underlying theme to the universe,
605
00:38:10,458 --> 00:38:13,753
{\an8}or to everything that was worthwhile,
606
00:38:14,254 --> 00:38:16,882
got down to this love, love, love thing.
607
00:38:17,591 --> 00:38:19,467
And it was the struggle to--
608
00:38:20,218 --> 00:38:23,847
to love, be loved, and express that.
609
00:38:23,847 --> 00:38:26,892
You know, there's something
about love that's fantastic.
610
00:38:27,809 --> 00:38:30,979
I want to be as loving as possible.
611
00:38:34,441 --> 00:38:39,654
[Ono] I still miss him, e-especially now,
because of-- The world is,
612
00:38:39,654 --> 00:38:45,285
um, not quite right
and everybody seems to be suffering.
613
00:38:46,661 --> 00:38:49,247
And if he was here,
it would have been difficult--
614
00:38:49,247 --> 00:38:50,707
different, I think.
615
00:38:56,379 --> 00:38:59,424
[interviewer 2]
When you think of your dad now,
616
00:38:59,424 --> 00:39:02,802
what are the most wonderful memories
that come up for you?
617
00:39:02,802 --> 00:39:04,012
What is it that you really go,
618
00:39:04,012 --> 00:39:06,473
"Yeah, that's the essence
of my relationship with my father?"
619
00:39:10,185 --> 00:39:15,148
Footage of just me and my father,
just like-- I'd-I'd always sit on his lap.
620
00:39:15,148 --> 00:39:16,566
You know, just being together.
621
00:39:16,566 --> 00:39:19,027
'Cause that was what it was like.
We'd always be together.
622
00:39:22,948 --> 00:39:25,700
You know, I just knew he was there,
and I knew he was my father...
623
00:39:28,036 --> 00:39:29,454
and I knew I loved him.
624
00:39:33,416 --> 00:39:35,919
What do you think your dad's
biggest contribution was?
625
00:39:36,628 --> 00:39:40,006
His music affected everybody,
626
00:39:41,383 --> 00:39:43,677
almost everybody in the entire world.
627
00:39:43,677 --> 00:39:48,848
I mean-- And it's amazing,
the impact that music can have on people.
628
00:39:49,891 --> 00:39:51,476
And his contribution to you?
629
00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:53,562
To me, he was my father.