1 00:00:02,420 --> 00:00:05,588 If people knew what this man and his family did to me. 2 00:00:05,589 --> 00:00:07,132 They'd demand it be made right. 3 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:09,217 They're just waiting to see me die. 4 00:00:09,218 --> 00:00:12,554 I know that you... you don't abandon hope without hope abandoning you first. 5 00:00:12,555 --> 00:00:14,431 So why don't you and I work together on this? 6 00:00:14,432 --> 00:00:16,266 Make sure we get through this thing safe and sound. 7 00:00:16,267 --> 00:00:17,643 The immunity agreement isn't real. 8 00:00:18,894 --> 00:00:22,272 - It's all bullshit. - You have to sell the immunity, Fred. 9 00:00:22,273 --> 00:00:23,773 Sorry. I don't sell lies on the news. 10 00:00:23,774 --> 00:00:25,358 Two men's lives are at stake here. 11 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:29,320 WIBC can confirm that the unprecedented agreement exonerates Kiritsis. 12 00:00:29,321 --> 00:00:33,199 Kiritsis, if he so wishes, can walk out of Crestwood Apartments, a free man. 13 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,452 Signed, sealed, and delivered. 14 00:00:35,453 --> 00:00:36,995 Maybe they tapped Tony's phones. 15 00:00:36,996 --> 00:00:39,247 Maybe Rucks knew about it the whole time. Maybe he didn't. 16 00:00:39,248 --> 00:00:41,750 Maybe those hypothetical confidential phone calls 17 00:00:41,751 --> 00:00:43,293 fall under lawyer-client privilege. 18 00:00:43,294 --> 00:00:46,129 Maybe those hypothetical phone calls also got them on tape. 19 00:00:46,130 --> 00:00:47,297 We're with WIBC. 20 00:00:47,298 --> 00:00:48,132 Excuse me... 21 00:00:49,675 --> 00:00:52,553 - You know they're gonna kill him, right? - Handkerchief... 22 00:00:53,512 --> 00:00:54,971 McNally. 23 00:00:54,972 --> 00:00:56,055 Tony. 24 00:00:56,056 --> 00:00:57,266 Then Walt goes. 25 00:00:59,143 --> 00:01:00,978 And I shoot. 26 00:02:45,457 --> 00:02:46,375 Where is everyone? 27 00:02:47,334 --> 00:02:48,919 - You missed it. - What do you mean? 28 00:02:51,422 --> 00:02:55,259 - Is that blood? - Like I said, you missed it. 29 00:03:36,050 --> 00:03:37,509 Flip the lights on, please. 30 00:03:41,931 --> 00:03:42,765 Thank you. 31 00:03:45,017 --> 00:03:46,936 Hey. What the... What's going on here? 32 00:03:47,519 --> 00:03:50,189 - Tony can't resist the show. - Well, how does this show end? 33 00:03:51,899 --> 00:03:53,359 All the world's a stage, Fred. 34 00:03:57,237 --> 00:03:58,780 {\an8}Well, it's not over yet, Tony, no. 35 00:03:58,781 --> 00:04:00,198 {\an8}Listen, I want you to think about something. 36 00:04:00,199 --> 00:04:03,702 {\an8}There's an awful lot of cameras down here, they're all at the ready. 37 00:04:04,495 --> 00:04:05,954 What exactly are they gonna see? 38 00:04:05,955 --> 00:04:09,040 Me walking out a rich man and a national hero. 39 00:04:09,041 --> 00:04:10,750 You need to come down here unarmed. 40 00:04:10,751 --> 00:04:13,503 The immunity agreement didn't specify I'd have to be unarmed. 41 00:04:13,504 --> 00:04:14,796 Don't worry so much, Fred. 42 00:04:14,797 --> 00:04:16,839 Listen, I ain't going back to a hospital. 43 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:19,842 And if I have to wave a gun around to be free, 44 00:04:19,843 --> 00:04:21,219 well, that's what I'm gonna do. 45 00:04:21,220 --> 00:04:23,763 - Please, Tony. - I'll think about it, baby. 46 00:04:23,764 --> 00:04:25,765 Listen, I want to share a steak with you. 47 00:04:25,766 --> 00:04:27,059 Tell them I'm coming down. 48 00:04:39,321 --> 00:04:40,406 He's coming down. 49 00:05:25,993 --> 00:05:27,077 How do I look? 50 00:05:33,625 --> 00:05:35,502 Don't get any fucking ideas. 51 00:05:39,923 --> 00:05:41,341 Go, go, go! 52 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,143 Well, ain't that something? 53 00:05:54,438 --> 00:05:55,897 Hey, everyone! 54 00:05:55,898 --> 00:05:58,108 - Tony! - We love you, Tony! 55 00:06:12,581 --> 00:06:15,625 Mr. Kiritsis, FBI Special Agent Cormac McNally. 56 00:06:15,626 --> 00:06:19,837 Who's got the statement? Give it to Dick, Chief. Give it to Dick. 57 00:06:19,838 --> 00:06:20,923 He's gonna read it. 58 00:06:22,049 --> 00:06:23,424 Where's Mikey? 59 00:06:23,425 --> 00:06:24,425 I'm right here, Tone. 60 00:06:24,426 --> 00:06:25,843 Hey, Rick. How are you? Where's Mikey? 61 00:06:25,844 --> 00:06:28,679 Tone, I'm right here. Right here, Tone. 62 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:29,681 Ciao, baby! 63 00:06:30,474 --> 00:06:33,935 - You got this. - Yeah, I'm a maniac. I'm a fucking maniac. 64 00:06:33,936 --> 00:06:36,188 - We're in the homestretch, baby. - You be strong. 65 00:06:40,150 --> 00:06:42,026 - Mr. Fred Heckman. - Tony. 66 00:06:42,027 --> 00:06:43,403 Great to see you in the flesh. 67 00:06:44,113 --> 00:06:46,740 It's gonna be a hell of a show. Hell of a show. 68 00:06:52,246 --> 00:06:53,956 Get the hell out of the way! 69 00:06:54,957 --> 00:06:56,291 Get out of the way! 70 00:06:59,419 --> 00:07:00,546 Get out of the way! 71 00:07:02,047 --> 00:07:03,507 Get the hell out of the way! 72 00:07:07,511 --> 00:07:11,974 Turn the goddamn cameras on! I'm gonna show you something. 73 00:07:12,850 --> 00:07:14,184 Read that, pal. Read it! 74 00:07:15,435 --> 00:07:18,355 Turn the cameras on all three channels. Hold it, hold it! 75 00:07:19,022 --> 00:07:22,275 I've been called a kidnapper, an extortionist, 76 00:07:22,276 --> 00:07:24,110 a thug, and everything else. 77 00:07:24,111 --> 00:07:28,281 I want it on all three national channels. I got friends all over the country. 78 00:07:28,282 --> 00:07:30,783 - Where's Fred Heckman? - Right here, Tony. Right here. 79 00:07:30,784 --> 00:07:32,577 Get over here. Come here, Fred. 80 00:07:32,578 --> 00:07:34,496 Come here, Fred. Why so shy? Come here. 81 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,622 Look at this guy. 82 00:07:36,623 --> 00:07:39,667 You guys with them Kodaks, get the hell out of the way. 83 00:07:39,668 --> 00:07:43,004 Listen, this gentleman here is with WIBC, 84 00:07:43,005 --> 00:07:45,089 and without his unbiased reporting, 85 00:07:45,090 --> 00:07:49,219 without the fairness of his company, WIBC in Indianapolis, 86 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,139 I would be considered a goddamn thug today. 87 00:07:52,890 --> 00:07:54,515 I owe everything to this man. 88 00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:56,935 Fred Heckman has joined Tony Kiritsis by his side. 89 00:07:58,312 --> 00:08:02,191 Now, you guys be good and quiet and let this gentleman read that. 90 00:08:03,025 --> 00:08:05,735 He goddamn near made me blow his goddamn brains out. 91 00:08:05,736 --> 00:08:08,112 Hold it. Hold it. We got all three going? 92 00:08:08,113 --> 00:08:10,031 All three nationals? 93 00:08:10,032 --> 00:08:12,033 - Yeah. - Yeah, okay. Put it on him, pal. 94 00:08:12,034 --> 00:08:13,492 We're partners in this. 95 00:08:13,493 --> 00:08:15,870 It appears Dick Hall is going to read a prepared statement. 96 00:08:15,871 --> 00:08:19,332 Read it. Wait, wait, wait. Wait. Where's... where's Chief Gallagher? 97 00:08:19,333 --> 00:08:20,625 Right here, Tony. 98 00:08:20,626 --> 00:08:23,169 Chief, I got some good news for you, and I hope you take it well. 99 00:08:23,170 --> 00:08:27,090 All I had in them bottles was gasoline. I just wanted to fry the son of a bitch. 100 00:08:27,633 --> 00:08:28,926 But I had it rigged, pal. 101 00:08:30,177 --> 00:08:31,303 Now, read it. 102 00:08:35,098 --> 00:08:37,309 "February 10th, 1977. 103 00:08:38,685 --> 00:08:43,481 This statement is being made to try and state the items 104 00:08:43,482 --> 00:08:47,818 that Mr. Kiritsis alludes to as being the--" 105 00:08:47,819 --> 00:08:50,613 No, no, no. You're not doing it right. 106 00:08:50,614 --> 00:08:52,324 I want this thing understood. 107 00:08:53,158 --> 00:08:54,117 I'll read it. 108 00:08:55,869 --> 00:08:59,831 "February 10th, 1977--" I need a glass of water. 109 00:09:00,916 --> 00:09:03,668 Grab him some water. Whoever's closest. Just a cup of water. 110 00:09:03,669 --> 00:09:06,879 "This statement is being made to try and state the items 111 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:08,339 that Mr. Kiritsis alludes--" 112 00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:11,718 And I don't like that word. I charge, and they've admitted it. 113 00:09:14,179 --> 00:09:17,139 "Requesting that the loan be paid in full." Of course. 114 00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:18,391 - "If the $130,000 loan... - Get this up there. 115 00:09:18,392 --> 00:09:19,475 Get it up there quick. 116 00:09:19,476 --> 00:09:22,646 "...is not paid by August 1, 1977, parenthesis... 117 00:09:24,648 --> 00:09:28,109 This lease negotiation approved the Kiritsis site 118 00:09:28,110 --> 00:09:30,569 and had a definite interest in building there." 119 00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:32,114 Here, Tony. Here's the water. 120 00:09:35,826 --> 00:09:36,910 Thank you, Fred. 121 00:09:37,411 --> 00:09:38,287 Good guy. 122 00:09:38,954 --> 00:09:41,330 "We show Eisner-Osco other sites, 123 00:09:41,331 --> 00:09:44,250 but to date, they have not made any commitments 124 00:09:44,251 --> 00:09:46,043 to the best of our knowledge." 125 00:09:46,044 --> 00:09:46,961 "Number two--" 126 00:09:46,962 --> 00:09:49,715 Now, listen. Eisner-Osco was my tenant, by the way. 127 00:09:51,008 --> 00:09:53,802 They were my tenant. Remember all... Remember that. 128 00:09:54,344 --> 00:09:57,013 "We also showed them other sites. 129 00:09:57,014 --> 00:10:00,725 It is our understanding that Marsh built on another site, 130 00:10:00,726 --> 00:10:02,268 which we had nothing to do with." 131 00:10:02,269 --> 00:10:03,729 That's 'cause they couldn't steal them. 132 00:10:05,314 --> 00:10:06,189 Right, Walt? 133 00:10:14,448 --> 00:10:15,865 This trooper right here. 134 00:10:15,866 --> 00:10:17,950 Hell of a good friend of mine. Come here, Walt. 135 00:10:17,951 --> 00:10:20,077 Hell of a guy. I got a lot of friends here. 136 00:10:20,078 --> 00:10:24,749 He's seen me... he's seen me almost every night. 137 00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:28,002 Almost every night for three or four years in a couple restaurants 138 00:10:28,003 --> 00:10:30,212 around here having coffee. 139 00:10:30,213 --> 00:10:31,798 He always wondered what was wrong. 140 00:10:32,632 --> 00:10:33,633 Now he knows. 141 00:10:36,303 --> 00:10:37,721 Hell of a cop. Good cop. 142 00:10:46,313 --> 00:10:48,230 - Where's that goddamn thing? - I'll get it for you, Tony. 143 00:10:48,231 --> 00:10:49,815 Let me get it for you. 144 00:10:49,816 --> 00:10:51,443 There you go. There you go, Tony. 145 00:10:53,153 --> 00:10:54,196 It's okay. 146 00:10:55,530 --> 00:10:58,032 - Fred, you got that all wet. - I'm sorry, Tony... 147 00:10:58,033 --> 00:10:59,117 You guys are so... 148 00:11:01,578 --> 00:11:03,914 These guys... That's Fred Heckman. 149 00:11:30,941 --> 00:11:33,484 This brave young man and his father would've said is that... 150 00:11:33,485 --> 00:11:36,237 is that, "Listen here, Tony, here's what we're gonna do. 151 00:11:36,238 --> 00:11:37,738 Here's what we're gonna do. 152 00:11:37,739 --> 00:11:40,741 Because you're a nice fella, because we really love you, 153 00:11:40,742 --> 00:11:42,785 we would never wanna do anything to hurt you, 154 00:11:42,786 --> 00:11:44,036 we're gonna keep the cream, 155 00:11:44,037 --> 00:11:46,956 we're gonna keep the front 10 acres for 130,000 dollars, 156 00:11:46,957 --> 00:11:49,543 and you can keep the back seven, where all the hogs shit." 157 00:11:53,130 --> 00:11:56,048 Pardon my language, ladies and gentlemen. I curse because it's good for my ulcer. 158 00:11:56,049 --> 00:11:58,009 I don't have one. Where's my attorney? 159 00:12:00,053 --> 00:12:01,762 - Back up. Back up. - Guys, give him some space. 160 00:12:01,763 --> 00:12:04,266 - Just give him some space. - I'm holding a fucking shotgun, guys. 161 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,528 Give me some room. I'm holding a fucking shotgun. 162 00:12:17,237 --> 00:12:18,822 I'm cool. I'm cool. 163 00:12:19,322 --> 00:12:21,533 You ain't seen me shake no place. 164 00:12:22,617 --> 00:12:25,912 The only thing wagging is my tongue and that never gets tired when I'm mad. 165 00:12:26,955 --> 00:12:28,248 Walt, pull my pants up. 166 00:12:29,541 --> 00:12:31,126 Pull my pants up, Walt. 167 00:12:37,382 --> 00:12:38,757 Where's Chuck Wilson? 168 00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:40,134 Where's Ruckelshaus? 169 00:12:40,135 --> 00:12:42,554 - He's back here. - Tony, we're... we're right here. 170 00:12:43,638 --> 00:12:44,805 There he is. 171 00:12:44,806 --> 00:12:46,640 There he is, that son of a bitch. 172 00:12:46,641 --> 00:12:49,602 Where... where have you been? Well, you're awful bashful tonight. 173 00:12:49,603 --> 00:12:51,562 Not usual when you want your attorney's fees. 174 00:12:51,563 --> 00:12:54,231 Well, I'm the shy one. 175 00:12:54,232 --> 00:12:57,359 Oh, man, you know, I came down here, I shaved before I came down. 176 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,321 You didn't even come out. Get that goddamn thing done. 177 00:13:00,322 --> 00:13:02,448 We're... we're on that right now, Tony. Heading there right now. 178 00:13:02,449 --> 00:13:03,616 Listen. Hey, listen, Rucks, 179 00:13:03,617 --> 00:13:06,035 if you weren't such a good lawyer, I don't know what I'd do without you. 180 00:13:06,036 --> 00:13:07,746 Tony, you look great. 181 00:13:08,538 --> 00:13:09,498 Thank you. 182 00:13:10,874 --> 00:13:14,084 I'm the man they called a goddamn kidnapper. 183 00:13:14,085 --> 00:13:17,172 I'm a goddamn national hero, and don't you forget it. 184 00:13:20,884 --> 00:13:21,760 Rucks! 185 00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:24,596 Rucks, where are you going? 186 00:13:26,556 --> 00:13:28,058 Hey, what are we gonna do? 187 00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:30,893 Hypothetically, this might be the kind of thing 188 00:13:30,894 --> 00:13:32,771 that the bar might disapprove of, you know. 189 00:13:34,397 --> 00:13:36,024 Rucks. Hey, listen to me. 190 00:13:37,901 --> 00:13:38,943 What are we gonna do? 191 00:13:38,944 --> 00:13:39,819 We? 192 00:13:41,404 --> 00:13:45,158 This, my friend, is where we part ways. 193 00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:47,786 - Rucks. - Yeah. 194 00:13:48,787 --> 00:13:49,871 What do you mean, Rucks? 195 00:13:51,957 --> 00:13:52,874 Rucks! 196 00:14:00,382 --> 00:14:01,341 Where's Jimmie? 197 00:14:02,342 --> 00:14:04,051 - Jimmie's on his way-- - Where's my brother Jimmie? 198 00:14:04,052 --> 00:14:06,053 He's on his way, Tony. All right? He's... he's coming. 199 00:14:06,054 --> 00:14:08,640 I love that man. He's a hell of a... hell of a guy. 200 00:14:09,140 --> 00:14:11,226 Hell of a good guy. I know a lot of good people. 201 00:14:11,768 --> 00:14:13,353 You know, I got some friends 202 00:14:14,229 --> 00:14:16,522 who might be watching this in various places, 203 00:14:16,523 --> 00:14:19,234 and I want them to know that I'm not trying to be funny. 204 00:14:20,610 --> 00:14:23,989 I never like notoriety, and I don't like it any more tonight. 205 00:14:26,908 --> 00:14:30,869 My aunt in Akron, Ohio, and my cousins. 206 00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:34,039 I got some damn good Greek friends in the state of Florida 207 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,042 and some people that I was in the army... 208 00:14:37,794 --> 00:14:39,879 I was in the army with in New England. 209 00:14:42,048 --> 00:14:43,883 And the good people of Indianapolis. 210 00:14:44,426 --> 00:14:46,636 I want them to know that, by God, I was right. 211 00:14:48,722 --> 00:14:50,307 And this damn well ought to prove it. 212 00:14:51,891 --> 00:14:56,855 Now, you don't have to be ashamed. And I was terrified that I embarrassed... 213 00:15:02,861 --> 00:15:05,988 And I have to... I have to apologize to this man's family. 214 00:15:05,989 --> 00:15:07,574 I'm sorry, Dick. I'm sorry. 215 00:15:08,491 --> 00:15:11,494 Sorry I humiliated him in this... in this way. 216 00:15:12,287 --> 00:15:15,206 - Hey, Tony, you okay? - Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm steady. 217 00:15:18,543 --> 00:15:20,170 And I cry all the time. 218 00:15:21,671 --> 00:15:23,798 Makes the ladies like me. They think I'm gentle. 219 00:15:29,888 --> 00:15:31,764 Why don't we get you someplace a little cooler, huh, Tony? 220 00:15:31,765 --> 00:15:32,806 - Yeah. - Maybe we'll... 221 00:15:32,807 --> 00:15:34,600 we'll go back to that little back... back room. 222 00:15:34,601 --> 00:15:35,809 Yeah. 223 00:15:35,810 --> 00:15:37,686 - Come on, then. Come on. - Get you to a nice cool room. 224 00:15:37,687 --> 00:15:39,981 - Maybe sit down while we wait for Jimmie. - Don't stumble, baby! 225 00:15:44,361 --> 00:15:46,196 What are you doing? 226 00:15:49,324 --> 00:15:53,410 He's moving off and they're going around the corner. 227 00:15:53,411 --> 00:15:56,998 He says he wants to go somewhere cooler, rather... 228 00:15:58,041 --> 00:16:01,835 I repeat, Tony Kiritsis, who still has a dead man's line 229 00:16:01,836 --> 00:16:04,588 around his hostage, Dick Hall. 230 00:16:04,589 --> 00:16:07,884 They are behind closed doors. For now, we wait. 231 00:16:14,683 --> 00:16:17,601 You have a superior-court judge lined up to oversee his bail hearing 232 00:16:17,602 --> 00:16:18,769 when this is done? 233 00:16:18,770 --> 00:16:19,895 That's correct. 234 00:16:19,896 --> 00:16:21,397 No fucking argument about bail. 235 00:16:21,398 --> 00:16:22,816 The judge watches the news. 236 00:16:29,698 --> 00:16:33,575 Because we cannot afford to fucking fuck this up or we're fucked. 237 00:16:33,576 --> 00:16:35,829 Yeah, I'm aware of that, Gene. 238 00:17:02,647 --> 00:17:03,732 Change of plans. 239 00:17:51,321 --> 00:17:52,822 Fuck you! 240 00:17:54,657 --> 00:17:56,993 I've been wanting to do that for three days. 241 00:17:58,286 --> 00:17:59,578 Oh, shit. 242 00:17:59,579 --> 00:18:01,289 Oh, shit. No, no, no! 243 00:18:03,082 --> 00:18:04,292 I have immunity! 244 00:18:05,084 --> 00:18:06,919 - I have immunity! - Bag it. 245 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:07,961 I have immunity! 246 00:18:07,962 --> 00:18:10,839 You voided the deal when you came down armed, Tony. 247 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,091 I have immunity. 248 00:18:14,219 --> 00:18:17,138 You were never gonna give it to me anyways, were you? 249 00:18:25,396 --> 00:18:26,648 Did you know about this? 250 00:18:29,776 --> 00:18:31,069 Did you know about this? 251 00:18:33,655 --> 00:18:34,531 Take him. 252 00:18:39,285 --> 00:18:40,703 - Tony! - Tony! 253 00:18:53,591 --> 00:18:54,550 Fred. 254 00:18:54,551 --> 00:18:56,553 - Is he going to jail? - Fred! Fred! 255 00:18:59,931 --> 00:19:00,807 Fred! 256 00:20:04,412 --> 00:20:07,415 After 68 hours, this crisis has peacefully ended. 257 00:20:07,999 --> 00:20:10,292 Richard Hall has been discharged from the hospital 258 00:20:10,293 --> 00:20:13,087 and is now resting comfortably at home with his wife and children. 259 00:20:13,796 --> 00:20:17,007 {\an8}The pre-trial hearing of Anthony Kiritsis will begin today in Superior Court Five. 260 00:20:17,008 --> 00:20:18,842 {\an8}Judge Michael Dugan will sit as replacement 261 00:20:18,843 --> 00:20:21,053 {\an8}for Judge John Tranberg of Criminal Court. 262 00:20:21,054 --> 00:20:23,680 Kiritsis is being held in jail on charges of kidnapping, 263 00:20:23,681 --> 00:20:25,767 armed extortion, and armed robbery. 264 00:20:26,768 --> 00:20:29,938 Kiritsis is contesting the state's right to prosecute him as there was 265 00:20:30,647 --> 00:20:32,190 an immunity agreement in place. 266 00:20:33,191 --> 00:20:36,193 Kiritsis may also raise questions of improper collusion 267 00:20:36,194 --> 00:20:38,571 with his attorneys, John Ruckelshaus and Charles Wilson, 268 00:20:39,155 --> 00:20:41,491 and the district attorneys during the crisis. 269 00:20:41,991 --> 00:20:43,241 The time is 9:25. 270 00:20:43,242 --> 00:20:44,451 Coming up, sports highlights, 271 00:20:44,452 --> 00:20:46,703 followed by the farm report, and at the top of the hour, 272 00:20:46,704 --> 00:20:49,331 a lucky listener's chance to play Break the Bank and win. 273 00:20:49,332 --> 00:20:50,792 This is WIBC. 274 00:20:51,334 --> 00:20:55,003 WI, WIBC 275 00:20:55,004 --> 00:20:58,382 Take your morning drive and divide 276 00:20:58,383 --> 00:21:01,718 By the number of your fresh cups of coffee 277 00:21:01,719 --> 00:21:04,555 Multiply by the time... 278 00:21:05,056 --> 00:21:06,682 Ginny, anything yet? 279 00:21:06,683 --> 00:21:08,558 Indiana Bell's still not talking. 280 00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:09,643 Did you try the secretaries? 281 00:21:09,644 --> 00:21:11,436 I even bought Tupperware from two of them. 282 00:21:11,437 --> 00:21:12,562 They are pretty tight-lipped, 283 00:21:12,563 --> 00:21:15,649 but I have a lead on a former employee who was there during the crisis. 284 00:21:15,650 --> 00:21:17,484 Allegedly, not confirmed. 285 00:21:17,485 --> 00:21:20,112 Well, I think she's gonna talk. So, maybe not allegedly at all. 286 00:21:20,113 --> 00:21:21,197 Oh, stand corrected. 287 00:21:23,616 --> 00:21:25,410 So, nothing concrete yet. 288 00:21:27,578 --> 00:21:30,330 I sure would love to just plant a seed. 289 00:21:30,331 --> 00:21:31,790 Saying what? 290 00:21:31,791 --> 00:21:35,753 Talk about the existence of illegal wiretap tapes on a broadcast. 291 00:21:42,010 --> 00:21:44,053 - Big day today. - Yeah. 292 00:21:45,722 --> 00:21:47,390 Any idea what Tony's gonna ask you? 293 00:21:48,391 --> 00:21:51,769 Probably why I lied to him about a fake immunity deal on the radio. 294 00:21:52,311 --> 00:21:54,480 - What are you gonna say? - I don't know. 295 00:21:56,315 --> 00:21:58,150 Sure be great if we could get our hands on those tapes 296 00:21:58,151 --> 00:21:59,609 before I go on the record, though. 297 00:21:59,610 --> 00:22:03,031 It is interesting about this Judge Dugan. 298 00:22:04,282 --> 00:22:07,118 He's very ambitious, eyes on the mayor's office. 299 00:22:08,619 --> 00:22:10,871 Someone like Dugan needs the support of the cops 300 00:22:10,872 --> 00:22:13,791 and the lawyers and the DA's. 301 00:22:14,292 --> 00:22:15,209 He sure does. 302 00:22:19,630 --> 00:22:24,176 Oh, I got a call from a Ralph Bass from CBS. 303 00:22:24,177 --> 00:22:25,470 Any idea what that's about? 304 00:22:26,054 --> 00:22:28,597 I have a feeling someone's about to offer you a very nice job. 305 00:22:28,598 --> 00:22:32,350 A meeting. They need you upstairs. Very important, very important. 306 00:22:32,351 --> 00:22:33,352 Need you upstairs. 307 00:22:34,645 --> 00:22:35,980 He wants to make a movie. 308 00:22:36,689 --> 00:22:40,692 The meat, the bones, the lifeblood of this Tony Kiritsis saga. 309 00:22:40,693 --> 00:22:44,238 - The standoff. That wild press conference. - Fred, you could play yourself. 310 00:22:44,781 --> 00:22:46,948 Perhaps Fred could be a consultant. 311 00:22:46,949 --> 00:22:49,409 I can promote the hell out of this. And WIBC. 312 00:22:49,410 --> 00:22:51,787 We could even have the premiere here in town at the... 313 00:22:51,788 --> 00:22:53,455 - Pam, what's the big theater on the-- - Eastwood. 314 00:22:53,456 --> 00:22:54,539 The Eastwood, exactly. 315 00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:57,084 Picture this, your name up in the big lights. 316 00:22:57,085 --> 00:22:58,919 - Yeah. Nice to meet you. - Yeah. Okay. 317 00:22:58,920 --> 00:22:59,879 Just wanna say-- 318 00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:02,714 - Jesus, Fred. Help me out here. - We don't... 319 00:23:02,715 --> 00:23:04,424 we don't have time for this, Jerry, okay? 320 00:23:04,425 --> 00:23:06,051 We have a lead on the wiretap story. 321 00:23:06,052 --> 00:23:09,012 Oh, is it someone with aluminum foil on their head, or is it a real lead? 322 00:23:09,013 --> 00:23:11,556 Because I'm starting to worry about you, Fred. 323 00:23:11,557 --> 00:23:14,893 You sound like a loon going on and on about these tapes. 324 00:23:14,894 --> 00:23:16,895 You need to get your head on straight, man. 325 00:23:16,896 --> 00:23:20,941 Look, think of the ratings we could get with this cross marketing. 326 00:23:20,942 --> 00:23:22,860 Let Tony go to jail or the nut house. 327 00:23:23,361 --> 00:23:26,696 This is a real movie, and you're the fucking hero. 328 00:23:26,697 --> 00:23:29,408 You saved the day. That's the story. 329 00:23:30,993 --> 00:23:32,994 - Hey. Okay. - Are we okay? 330 00:23:32,995 --> 00:23:34,746 Oh, yeah, there'll always gonna be little bumps, but... 331 00:23:34,747 --> 00:23:35,914 It's gonna happen? 332 00:23:35,915 --> 00:23:39,794 I know why you're here. I know you want an exclusive. 333 00:23:40,294 --> 00:23:43,381 A WIBC exclusive. 334 00:23:44,674 --> 00:23:46,759 Let me tell you why you're not gonna get it. 335 00:23:48,511 --> 00:23:50,596 Barbara Walters. 336 00:23:51,222 --> 00:23:56,393 She currently is considered the best, most exciting interviewer in the country. 337 00:23:56,394 --> 00:23:58,895 She pulls higher ratings than anyone. 338 00:23:58,896 --> 00:24:02,024 So, to Barbara Walters we go. 339 00:24:04,694 --> 00:24:11,366 Meridian Mortgage will finally get to right the reeling havoc 340 00:24:11,367 --> 00:24:17,289 you and your ilk perpetrated against this fine American company and my family. 341 00:24:17,290 --> 00:24:18,916 - Mr. Hall-- - I'm not finished. 342 00:24:21,294 --> 00:24:27,967 You'll not receive access to me or to Dick or to any other Meridian employee. 343 00:24:29,343 --> 00:24:32,304 - Did Angie offer you a drink? - Yeah. 344 00:24:32,305 --> 00:24:34,556 Yes, she sure did. 345 00:24:34,557 --> 00:24:37,517 We... Mr. Hall, thank you again for taking this time. 346 00:24:37,518 --> 00:24:39,895 We just have a few follow-up questions for Dick. 347 00:24:39,896 --> 00:24:42,564 Dick's indisposed at the moment. 348 00:24:42,565 --> 00:24:45,775 He's getting a shave and a haircut 349 00:24:45,776 --> 00:24:51,990 before he flies the friendly TWA skies for a glorious interview. 350 00:24:51,991 --> 00:24:53,743 Any questions, you can ask me. 351 00:24:54,410 --> 00:24:55,745 Well, what's next? 352 00:24:57,079 --> 00:24:59,039 - Well, like I said-- - Sorry, sorry. 353 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,210 I... I meant for the land, for the 17 acres. 354 00:25:02,752 --> 00:25:05,338 Some sort of sheriff sale, right, M.L.? 355 00:25:05,838 --> 00:25:06,964 Something like that. 356 00:25:08,216 --> 00:25:11,719 And what are your thoughts on Mr. Kiritsis' pre-trial today? 357 00:25:13,721 --> 00:25:17,140 Throw that small imp of a man in prison and throw away the key. 358 00:25:17,141 --> 00:25:20,561 He doesn't deserve my thoughts, my time, or a trial. 359 00:25:21,562 --> 00:25:22,480 Interesting. 360 00:25:24,857 --> 00:25:30,112 Well, I would just think that you, of all people, 361 00:25:30,947 --> 00:25:34,491 someone who's been through the legal system himself 362 00:25:34,492 --> 00:25:37,369 and been convicted of a felony for fraud, 363 00:25:37,370 --> 00:25:40,413 you would understand a man's need for a... a fair trial. 364 00:25:40,414 --> 00:25:43,042 Now, Ben, I don't think there's any reason to insult Mr. Hall. 365 00:25:44,168 --> 00:25:45,461 Apologies, M.L. 366 00:25:46,420 --> 00:25:49,465 It's all right, Fred. Let him do his worst. 367 00:25:57,014 --> 00:25:59,100 You think you know everything, don't you? 368 00:25:59,892 --> 00:26:01,685 I think we've overstayed our welcome. 369 00:26:01,686 --> 00:26:04,688 Yeah. Good luck with the big interview tomorrow, 370 00:26:04,689 --> 00:26:08,566 and I apologize for any hard feelings due to our coverage. 371 00:26:08,567 --> 00:26:11,236 I have no doubt that, under your leadership, 372 00:26:11,237 --> 00:26:14,407 Meridian will regain its reputation. 373 00:26:15,658 --> 00:26:16,701 Thank you, Fred. 374 00:26:17,493 --> 00:26:19,161 Maybe we'll see you at the lodge. 375 00:26:19,662 --> 00:26:20,621 Maybe. 376 00:26:22,540 --> 00:26:24,332 And I wouldn't say anything like this on the air, 377 00:26:24,333 --> 00:26:27,752 but I thought your handling of the situation was commanding. 378 00:26:27,753 --> 00:26:31,172 But say, there was one thing that I was wondering. 379 00:26:31,173 --> 00:26:34,759 When did you get wind of the fact that the promissory note was a hoax? 380 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,221 Because that was a masterful move. 381 00:26:38,681 --> 00:26:41,975 Well, I didn't need Chief Gallagher to tell me when he did, 382 00:26:41,976 --> 00:26:43,226 if that's what you're asking, 383 00:26:43,227 --> 00:26:45,770 I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. 384 00:26:45,771 --> 00:26:47,939 So, he told you during that first phone call, did he? 385 00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:49,650 Quite the vaudeville, if you ask me. 386 00:26:50,192 --> 00:26:51,193 Sure was. 387 00:26:52,111 --> 00:26:53,112 Thank you again. 388 00:27:03,581 --> 00:27:05,124 - How'd I do? - Pretty good. 389 00:27:08,127 --> 00:27:11,004 So, we have confirmation. Gallagher called him. 390 00:27:11,005 --> 00:27:12,548 This was all in play from the beginning. 391 00:27:14,467 --> 00:27:16,594 You're gonna do great. We're gonna get these guys. 392 00:27:26,604 --> 00:27:30,149 Before this all ends, and I don't know what's gonna happen to us. 393 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,318 Well... 394 00:27:36,572 --> 00:27:37,698 I forgive you. 395 00:27:40,743 --> 00:27:42,036 I forgive you, too. 396 00:27:45,831 --> 00:27:48,292 And you got a free steak anytime you come. 397 00:27:49,668 --> 00:27:50,669 Thanks, Tony. 398 00:27:58,052 --> 00:27:59,178 Oh, God. 399 00:28:02,306 --> 00:28:05,559 It's gonna be all right. Right, Fred? We're gonna be okay? 400 00:28:08,396 --> 00:28:09,438 You are, Tony. 401 00:28:12,483 --> 00:28:14,151 What's gonna happen to us? 402 00:28:17,196 --> 00:28:19,698 ...before you enter the courthouse. 403 00:28:20,366 --> 00:28:21,450 Oh, that's cold. 404 00:28:30,918 --> 00:28:32,086 There he is! 405 00:28:33,087 --> 00:28:35,005 I'm a celebrity... 406 00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:39,051 They come to me like I'm John Wayne. 407 00:28:41,429 --> 00:28:44,223 That's the truth. How many people can say that? 408 00:28:48,894 --> 00:28:50,019 Heckman residence. 409 00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:51,312 - Hi. - Hi. 410 00:28:51,313 --> 00:28:52,690 How's the patient? 411 00:28:53,566 --> 00:28:54,691 No more fever? 412 00:28:54,692 --> 00:28:58,946 No more fever. We were just having a nutritious lunch. 413 00:29:00,364 --> 00:29:01,573 Are you at the courthouse? 414 00:29:01,574 --> 00:29:03,409 Yeah, I just saw Tony walk by. 415 00:29:04,034 --> 00:29:05,453 Any luck on finding the tapes? 416 00:29:06,412 --> 00:29:09,039 Ginny might possibly have a lead. 417 00:29:09,790 --> 00:29:11,542 Are you worried about testifying? 418 00:29:12,251 --> 00:29:14,336 A lot of people are gonna be upset with what I have to say. 419 00:29:15,087 --> 00:29:16,380 Important people. 420 00:29:17,923 --> 00:29:19,967 Once I testify, they'll know we're on to them. 421 00:29:20,801 --> 00:29:24,305 Are you afraid of us losing our good standing at the country club? 422 00:29:25,848 --> 00:29:27,183 I guess something like that. 423 00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:29,143 We'll be okay. 424 00:29:29,768 --> 00:29:31,145 I'll talk to you later, I gotta go. 425 00:29:40,905 --> 00:29:41,739 Jesus. 426 00:29:42,573 --> 00:29:46,327 Who's in the galley? Martz, Rimstidt, DA Kelley? 427 00:29:47,244 --> 00:29:50,163 - How's the press outside? - Well, I don't know. 428 00:29:50,164 --> 00:29:51,457 It's just a pre-trial. 429 00:29:53,834 --> 00:29:57,630 It would be better for your campaign if it were a packed room. 430 00:30:01,342 --> 00:30:02,301 Fred Heckman's here. 431 00:30:04,553 --> 00:30:05,387 Oh, that's good. 432 00:30:09,433 --> 00:30:11,977 Ladies and gentlemen, this is a pre-trial hearing. 433 00:30:12,478 --> 00:30:15,356 State of Indiana versus Anthony G. Kiritsis. 434 00:30:16,023 --> 00:30:18,775 Its purpose will be to determine whether there is enough evidence 435 00:30:18,776 --> 00:30:21,319 in this case to proceed with a full trial. 436 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,572 Mr. Mullin, you may call your first witness. 437 00:30:25,199 --> 00:30:27,868 We would like to call Mr. John Ruckelshaus to the stand. 438 00:30:30,037 --> 00:30:32,623 All witnesses, please step outside. We'll call you in. 439 00:30:40,422 --> 00:30:43,675 Mr. Ruckelshaus, what was the nature of the negotiations 440 00:30:43,676 --> 00:30:45,093 you had with the Assistant District Attorneys 441 00:30:45,094 --> 00:30:46,886 Mr. Martz and Mr. Rimstidt? 442 00:30:46,887 --> 00:30:51,683 Well, about as standard as could be, considering the crisis we were in. 443 00:30:51,684 --> 00:30:54,602 And did you have any sense that the immunity deal would not be honored? 444 00:30:54,603 --> 00:30:56,020 Absolutely not. 445 00:30:56,021 --> 00:30:59,482 If it's all right with you and with you, Your Honor, 446 00:30:59,483 --> 00:31:01,860 may I read from my record of events? 447 00:31:02,444 --> 00:31:04,655 - I'll allow it. - Sure, John. Go ahead. 448 00:31:06,365 --> 00:31:07,448 Okay. 449 00:31:07,449 --> 00:31:12,579 "February 9th, 1977, at a meeting with ADA Martz and ADA Rimstidt, 450 00:31:12,580 --> 00:31:16,541 I said the following." Quote, "The right to fair and zealous counsel 451 00:31:16,542 --> 00:31:21,170 is inalienable no matter what Mr. Kiritsis may or may not have done. 452 00:31:21,171 --> 00:31:24,841 If you think for one second that myself or my co-counsel will act 453 00:31:24,842 --> 00:31:29,679 as anything other than Mr. Kiritsis' honest advocates, think again." End quote. 454 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,474 "I then proceeded to demand complete criminal immunity, 455 00:31:33,475 --> 00:31:35,853 as Mr. Kiritsis directed." 456 00:31:38,856 --> 00:31:40,733 Oh, what a fucking day. 457 00:31:43,777 --> 00:31:47,905 No one got shot. No one died. And what do I get as my reward? 458 00:31:47,906 --> 00:31:51,577 This fucking lunatic and this fucking pre-trial motion. 459 00:31:52,620 --> 00:31:55,497 This is why people hate lawyers. 460 00:31:58,584 --> 00:31:59,710 You okay, Fred? 461 00:32:01,712 --> 00:32:02,796 Don't you think it's... 462 00:32:04,506 --> 00:32:06,925 odd that Tony's old lawyer and... 463 00:32:07,926 --> 00:32:10,220 Tony's new lawyer are so cozy? 464 00:32:13,057 --> 00:32:14,642 Keep your eye on the ball, Fred. 465 00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:25,026 And your discussions with the ADAs never touched on other matters 466 00:32:25,027 --> 00:32:27,487 outside the scope of Mr. Kiritsis' case? 467 00:32:27,488 --> 00:32:28,404 No, sir. 468 00:32:28,405 --> 00:32:31,240 And have you always held yourself to the ethics delineated 469 00:32:31,241 --> 00:32:34,035 - by the Indianapolis State Bar? - Yes, sir. 470 00:32:34,036 --> 00:32:36,996 Has anyone, Chief Gallagher or anyone at the DA's office, 471 00:32:36,997 --> 00:32:38,581 ever suggested to you 472 00:32:38,582 --> 00:32:41,417 that they were not making the offer of immunity in good faith? 473 00:32:41,418 --> 00:32:42,544 No. 474 00:32:43,545 --> 00:32:44,797 No further questions, Your Honor. 475 00:32:46,507 --> 00:32:48,424 - No further ques-- - Mr. Kiritsis. 476 00:32:48,425 --> 00:32:50,635 - Your Honor. - I don't wanna have to warn you again. 477 00:32:50,636 --> 00:32:53,680 Given the preexisting, amicable relationship 478 00:32:53,681 --> 00:32:56,974 between my current defense lawyer and my former defense lawyer, 479 00:32:56,975 --> 00:33:01,229 and... given the fact that the only reason I'm here is to attain the protections 480 00:33:01,230 --> 00:33:05,316 that were unconstitutionally denied me in February of this year, 481 00:33:05,317 --> 00:33:08,986 moving forward in this hearing, I will be representing myself pro se. 482 00:33:08,987 --> 00:33:12,073 - Tony, I really-- - No, thank you. Yeah, okay. Your Honor. 483 00:33:12,074 --> 00:33:13,492 Did you get all that, sweetheart? 484 00:33:15,327 --> 00:33:19,247 You are allowed to represent yourself, Mr. Kiritsis, but I must caution you. 485 00:33:19,248 --> 00:33:24,502 In the words of Abe Lincoln himself, be prepared to have a fool for a client. 486 00:33:24,503 --> 00:33:28,005 Thank you, Your Honor. I intend to be my most zealous advocate. 487 00:33:28,006 --> 00:33:29,091 Clarence Darrow. 488 00:33:30,676 --> 00:33:31,885 Pack it up, buddy. 489 00:33:40,894 --> 00:33:41,770 Good luck. 490 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,325 - You owe me a new pair of shoes. - Not my finest moment, I apologize. 491 00:33:56,243 --> 00:34:00,956 - Well, it was a crazy three days... - Let me ask you a question. 492 00:34:02,958 --> 00:34:06,294 If Meridian's promissory note had been real 493 00:34:06,295 --> 00:34:09,381 and upheld by a court of law, what was your fee gonna be? 494 00:34:10,674 --> 00:34:12,175 I'm sorry, I don't follow. 495 00:34:12,176 --> 00:34:14,385 I mean, it's a five-million dollar offer. 496 00:34:14,386 --> 00:34:17,180 You're considering what your fee might be? 497 00:34:17,181 --> 00:34:19,640 Well, I was a little busy, if you recall-- 498 00:34:19,641 --> 00:34:23,020 I just don't remember reading it anywhere in the promissory note, that's... 499 00:34:23,812 --> 00:34:28,734 Make you the first attorney I ever met that didn't negotiate their fee up front. 500 00:34:32,321 --> 00:34:33,697 He really got to you. 501 00:34:34,698 --> 00:34:38,327 I look forward to hearing all your wild ideas on your broadcast. 502 00:34:39,077 --> 00:34:40,745 I always loved the sound of your voice, Fred. 503 00:34:40,746 --> 00:34:42,790 As I'm sure you do, too. 504 00:34:47,836 --> 00:34:53,883 At any point, was the legally-binding offer of immunity, 505 00:34:53,884 --> 00:34:57,805 which I have already entered into evidence, intended honestly? 506 00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:59,932 It wasn't fake. 507 00:35:00,724 --> 00:35:03,976 You broke the agreement when you came down armed. 508 00:35:03,977 --> 00:35:08,523 And yet the promise to come down unarmed was made via the phone, 509 00:35:08,524 --> 00:35:11,275 and not in writing on the original document. 510 00:35:11,276 --> 00:35:12,860 Is that correct? 511 00:35:12,861 --> 00:35:14,904 That's correct. 512 00:35:14,905 --> 00:35:19,659 Mr. Wilson, do you believe the state intended to honor my immunity offer? 513 00:35:19,660 --> 00:35:21,912 On the advice of counsel, I am exercising my right 514 00:35:22,663 --> 00:35:24,872 to remain silent and not incriminate myself. 515 00:35:24,873 --> 00:35:27,416 Can I just answer the question for him, Your Honor? 516 00:35:27,417 --> 00:35:29,544 No, Mr. Kiritsis, you may not. 517 00:35:29,545 --> 00:35:31,839 Fake is a loaded word. 518 00:35:32,381 --> 00:35:36,551 You broke the agreement when you brought a loaded weapon to the lobby. 519 00:35:36,552 --> 00:35:42,390 Mr. Martz, why were you meeting with my lawyers at odd hours of the day, 520 00:35:42,391 --> 00:35:45,894 in secret, if not to let them in on your plan? 521 00:35:46,395 --> 00:35:49,772 What is the policy of the Indianapolis Police Department 522 00:35:49,773 --> 00:35:51,357 when it comes to storing evidence? 523 00:35:51,358 --> 00:35:55,736 Any pertinent evidence is stored until such time as it is needed. 524 00:35:55,737 --> 00:35:58,072 - A time such as now? - Sure. 525 00:35:58,073 --> 00:36:02,827 I unfortunately can't speak to the exact procedure for storage 526 00:36:02,828 --> 00:36:06,247 or archiving alleged tapes. 527 00:36:06,248 --> 00:36:08,332 - I know about them. I know about them! - Your Honor. 528 00:36:08,333 --> 00:36:11,794 On advice of counsel, I am exercising my right to remain silent. 529 00:36:11,795 --> 00:36:14,673 - I did not aid or abet. - I'm the Chief of Police. 530 00:36:15,299 --> 00:36:19,261 I don't answer to anybody except for Mrs. Gallagher and God. 531 00:36:19,887 --> 00:36:22,930 Well, it's well-established legal precedent 532 00:36:22,931 --> 00:36:27,268 that agreements made under duress are not legally binding. 533 00:36:27,269 --> 00:36:28,394 I did not aid or... 534 00:36:28,395 --> 00:36:30,605 - I don't recall. - I can't recall exactly. 535 00:36:30,606 --> 00:36:31,606 I do not recall. 536 00:36:31,607 --> 00:36:34,275 The incompetence... the incompetence of these-- 537 00:36:34,276 --> 00:36:37,028 - And perhaps never knew to begin with. - And what about the drinking? 538 00:36:37,029 --> 00:36:39,780 Do you deny that there was excessive drinking during the incident 539 00:36:39,781 --> 00:36:42,158 - which impaired your judgment? - Your Honor, really? 540 00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:46,038 Why did you represent me if you thought I was crazy? 541 00:36:49,875 --> 00:36:53,462 I thought that you deserved representation, 542 00:36:54,171 --> 00:36:58,550 but that you also needed hospitalization. 543 00:37:06,892 --> 00:37:09,770 Your Honor. I'd like to request a recess, please. 544 00:37:28,997 --> 00:37:29,831 Tony? 545 00:37:31,708 --> 00:37:34,962 Looks like they were able to find you a little peace and quiet, huh? 546 00:37:35,712 --> 00:37:38,048 Yeah. Deputy Dunlap and Cotes are good men. 547 00:37:38,548 --> 00:37:40,591 Well, I'm still trying to find the evidence 548 00:37:40,592 --> 00:37:41,717 that shows there was collusion between-- 549 00:37:41,718 --> 00:37:44,679 Save it for the stand. I don't believe anything you say. 550 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,181 I don't believe anything you say. 551 00:37:48,809 --> 00:37:49,935 Take me in, boys. 552 00:37:55,983 --> 00:37:58,609 You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, 553 00:37:58,610 --> 00:37:59,902 so help you God? 554 00:37:59,903 --> 00:38:00,862 I do. 555 00:38:06,243 --> 00:38:07,285 Mr. Heckman. 556 00:38:09,830 --> 00:38:12,290 Was I just another interview subject to you? 557 00:38:14,292 --> 00:38:15,168 Is that it? 558 00:38:16,253 --> 00:38:19,006 Boy, when I called you up, you must have been licking your chops. 559 00:38:19,798 --> 00:38:23,969 Interview of a goddamn lifetime. Pardon my language, Your Honor. 560 00:38:25,721 --> 00:38:28,264 Did you put me on the air and get me to talk, 561 00:38:28,265 --> 00:38:30,599 not because you believed I had a point to make, 562 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,268 but for your own selfish reasons? 563 00:38:32,269 --> 00:38:33,853 Is there a relevant question in there? 564 00:38:33,854 --> 00:38:38,024 You got me to trust you. You told me things to get me to open up. 565 00:38:38,025 --> 00:38:41,360 Meanwhile, you and the other suits are laughing it up at my expense. 566 00:38:41,361 --> 00:38:43,571 - The question, Mr. Kiritsis. - Yeah, here's the question. 567 00:38:43,572 --> 00:38:46,365 Do you feel guilty for lying to your audience 568 00:38:46,366 --> 00:38:47,868 and betraying their trust? 569 00:38:50,746 --> 00:38:52,039 I do, Tony. I do. 570 00:38:52,539 --> 00:38:54,041 Why do it, Fred? 571 00:38:55,751 --> 00:38:56,585 Why? 572 00:38:57,377 --> 00:38:59,755 Because I was trying to save two lives, Tony. 573 00:39:00,338 --> 00:39:02,673 Now, if you want, you can ask the same questions 574 00:39:02,674 --> 00:39:03,883 you asked all the other witnesses. 575 00:39:03,884 --> 00:39:06,260 No, I don't need to, I already know what you're gonna say. 576 00:39:06,261 --> 00:39:08,054 - I don't think you do, Tony. - I'm Fred Heckman. 577 00:39:08,055 --> 00:39:09,638 I'm the biggest liar of them all. 578 00:39:09,639 --> 00:39:11,475 Tony, I'm here to tell the truth. 579 00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:14,560 Now, if you wanna ask me about the immunity agreement-- 580 00:39:14,561 --> 00:39:15,561 Objection, Your Honor. 581 00:39:15,562 --> 00:39:18,105 - You can ask about the immunity agreement. - Objection, Your Honor. 582 00:39:18,106 --> 00:39:20,149 Mr. Heckman, please answer questions you've been asked-- 583 00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:24,904 Oh, no further questions, Your Honor. I wouldn't believe a word this man says. 584 00:39:24,905 --> 00:39:27,908 I liked him better when he was just a voice on the radio I could turn off. 585 00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:30,786 At least with a lawyer, you know you're gonna get cheated. 586 00:39:35,332 --> 00:39:36,750 The witness is dismissed. 587 00:40:03,902 --> 00:40:04,945 Are you all packed? 588 00:40:07,489 --> 00:40:10,117 I'm... I'm not doing the interview. 589 00:40:11,535 --> 00:40:13,495 You canceled on Barbara Walters? 590 00:40:15,497 --> 00:40:17,332 - Does M.L. know? - No. 591 00:40:20,293 --> 00:40:21,961 Well, then where are you going? 592 00:40:21,962 --> 00:40:26,091 I'm just gonna go for a drive and clear my head. 593 00:40:28,969 --> 00:40:30,762 Well, I hope you make it home in time for dinner. 594 00:40:40,272 --> 00:40:44,025 Who wants to have a dance party? 595 00:40:45,610 --> 00:40:46,528 Yeah. 596 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,718 Hey there. 597 00:41:12,429 --> 00:41:13,680 How did you find me? 598 00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:16,641 You know, Barb. 599 00:41:19,227 --> 00:41:20,145 Ibby. 600 00:41:20,979 --> 00:41:23,023 Beer, please. Whatever's on tap. 601 00:41:28,361 --> 00:41:29,362 Thank you. 602 00:41:36,912 --> 00:41:39,497 So, no... no big... 603 00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:44,293 no big interview, I guess. No national exposure for Meridian. 604 00:41:44,294 --> 00:41:45,170 No. 605 00:41:47,088 --> 00:41:48,048 No. 606 00:41:49,382 --> 00:41:52,384 How'd it go with Tony today? Are we gonna have to testify in trial? 607 00:41:52,385 --> 00:41:55,764 Looks like it. The judge threw out Tony's motion, so... 608 00:41:59,643 --> 00:42:01,478 I don't know if I can do it, Fred. 609 00:42:03,313 --> 00:42:07,484 A courtroom full of strangers. I have to relive all that? 610 00:42:08,902 --> 00:42:10,819 Well, unfortunately, we don't have the tapes 611 00:42:10,820 --> 00:42:14,366 to catch the people who lied in their lies. 612 00:42:16,493 --> 00:42:18,995 You were always so fucking focused on Tony. 613 00:42:20,872 --> 00:42:24,042 You know, how Tony got the raw deal. 614 00:42:27,420 --> 00:42:29,339 I guess crime does pay. 615 00:42:36,137 --> 00:42:37,138 I'm sorry, Dick. 616 00:42:40,642 --> 00:42:41,601 I know. 617 00:42:42,644 --> 00:42:43,603 I know. 618 00:42:46,314 --> 00:42:47,482 But I don't get it. 619 00:42:49,609 --> 00:42:50,694 I don't get it. 620 00:42:55,407 --> 00:42:56,658 Let me tell you something. 621 00:42:58,285 --> 00:42:59,410 That first day, 622 00:42:59,411 --> 00:43:02,746 when you got frog-marched out of the office into the cold, 623 00:43:02,747 --> 00:43:06,042 with that wire around your neck, 624 00:43:07,294 --> 00:43:09,087 I thought to myself, there's no way. 625 00:43:10,380 --> 00:43:12,006 No way in hell this guy survives this. 626 00:43:12,007 --> 00:43:15,050 Every hour you were in that apartment, I thought the same damn thing. 627 00:43:15,051 --> 00:43:17,803 There is no way this guy survives this. 628 00:43:17,804 --> 00:43:19,931 How did you do it, Dick? How did you survive? 629 00:43:23,101 --> 00:43:25,312 You have to find a small... 630 00:43:28,273 --> 00:43:31,067 quiet place inside of you that no one can touch. 631 00:43:34,112 --> 00:43:35,280 You just stay there. 632 00:43:42,412 --> 00:43:43,371 You know? 633 00:43:47,167 --> 00:43:48,209 Can I have one more? 634 00:43:52,797 --> 00:43:54,840 You know, I had a... I had a tape recorder in my pocket 635 00:43:54,841 --> 00:43:57,052 that night that the three of us were in the back room. 636 00:44:01,097 --> 00:44:02,766 I'm... I'm not surprised. 637 00:44:04,184 --> 00:44:07,687 Are you gonna use it? Some big exposé or something? 638 00:44:13,693 --> 00:44:15,987 I haven't... I haven't shared it with a single person. 639 00:45:23,555 --> 00:45:27,141 After being found not guilty by reason of insanity, 640 00:45:27,142 --> 00:45:30,644 Anthony Kiritsis has been remanded to a psychiatric hospital 641 00:45:30,645 --> 00:45:33,273 to undergo psychiatric evaluation. 642 00:45:34,232 --> 00:45:37,901 President Carter will participate in Dial-a-President, 643 00:45:37,902 --> 00:45:39,903 a two-hour radio call-in show 644 00:45:39,904 --> 00:45:43,783 produced by CBS News and hosted by Walter Cronkite. 645 00:45:49,497 --> 00:45:51,415 Fred Heckman to see Tony Kiritsis. 646 00:45:51,416 --> 00:45:53,209 Just sign your name and the time, please. 647 00:46:10,185 --> 00:46:11,478 I wasn't sure you'd see me, Tony. 648 00:46:12,312 --> 00:46:14,188 You see, I have good news and I have bad news, 649 00:46:14,189 --> 00:46:16,398 and the bad news is I can't find the tapes. 650 00:46:16,399 --> 00:46:17,483 I don't know what happened to them. 651 00:46:17,484 --> 00:46:19,443 You don't know what happened to the tapes? 652 00:46:19,444 --> 00:46:20,862 I know what happened to the tapes. 653 00:46:22,614 --> 00:46:24,740 They destroyed them. That's what happened. 654 00:46:24,741 --> 00:46:27,826 Ruckelshaus and the DA made a side deal 655 00:46:27,827 --> 00:46:30,913 about the investigation into police bribery. 656 00:46:30,914 --> 00:46:32,956 And who was the sacrificial lamb in that deal? 657 00:46:32,957 --> 00:46:34,958 Me. Me, me, me. 658 00:46:34,959 --> 00:46:37,503 I know that, you know that, and they did that. 659 00:46:37,504 --> 00:46:39,630 You should have done something when you could've done something. 660 00:46:39,631 --> 00:46:41,716 Why don't you just take the test, Tony? I mean... 661 00:46:42,509 --> 00:46:45,636 The good news is you were found not guilty by reason of insanity. 662 00:46:45,637 --> 00:46:47,596 If you submit to the psychiatric evaluation, 663 00:46:47,597 --> 00:46:49,723 there's a good chance you get out of here, isn't that what you want? 664 00:46:49,724 --> 00:46:51,308 You want me to submit to a test 665 00:46:51,309 --> 00:46:54,229 for them to determine whether or not I'm crazy? 666 00:46:54,854 --> 00:46:58,190 I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy. I've never been crazy. 667 00:46:58,191 --> 00:47:01,151 I'm not letting these people get... get into my head. 668 00:47:01,152 --> 00:47:02,819 That's why I'm appealing, Fred. 669 00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:05,697 People win on appeals. There's justice for the little guy. 670 00:47:05,698 --> 00:47:07,366 They can't force me to take the test. 671 00:47:07,367 --> 00:47:10,160 It's against my constitutional right as an American. 672 00:47:10,161 --> 00:47:11,495 That I believe in. 673 00:47:11,496 --> 00:47:13,914 The day I stop believing that I'm gonna walk outta here, 674 00:47:13,915 --> 00:47:15,458 is the day I stop being. 675 00:47:19,462 --> 00:47:20,797 I'm sorry I lied to you, Tony. 676 00:47:22,924 --> 00:47:24,133 You know, there's a... 677 00:47:25,718 --> 00:47:29,555 People can say whatever they want about me and say a lot of things about me, 678 00:47:29,556 --> 00:47:32,767 but the one thing they can't say is that I lied. 679 00:47:36,604 --> 00:47:38,523 You can never come back from that, Fred. 680 00:47:40,692 --> 00:47:42,819 At the end of the day, all a man has is his word. 681 00:47:44,571 --> 00:47:46,989 All anyone's ever gonna remember about this 682 00:47:46,990 --> 00:47:49,492 is that a madman took his mortgage broker hostage. 683 00:47:55,498 --> 00:47:57,708 You know, that night when the three of us were in the back room, 684 00:47:57,709 --> 00:48:00,627 I had a tape recorder in my pocket. 685 00:48:00,628 --> 00:48:02,005 Yeah, that figures. 686 00:48:02,839 --> 00:48:04,716 Be a part of some big exposé. 687 00:48:19,397 --> 00:48:22,650 This is a list of all the violations committed by these institutions. 688 00:48:24,068 --> 00:48:25,153 You were right. 689 00:48:26,362 --> 00:48:29,698 Judge Dugan did receive kickbacks on certain cases, 690 00:48:29,699 --> 00:48:32,909 and the police did conspire with your attorneys. 691 00:48:32,910 --> 00:48:35,788 It's all in there, Tony. 692 00:48:38,750 --> 00:48:39,834 Make a fuss. 693 00:48:41,544 --> 00:48:43,880 We certainly gave them a good show, didn't we, Fred? 694 00:48:49,886 --> 00:48:51,554 You would never say that. 695 00:48:54,515 --> 00:48:55,350 Sir. 696 00:48:55,975 --> 00:48:59,228 Sir. Sir, the patient has refused the visit. 697 00:49:01,898 --> 00:49:04,484 - I'm sorry? - Mr. Kiritsis doesn't wanna see you. 698 00:49:07,153 --> 00:49:11,074 Oh, well, could you see that he gets this? 699 00:49:12,075 --> 00:49:14,035 - I'll see what I can do. - Thank you. 700 00:50:20,143 --> 00:50:24,564 Dr. Davis, telephone, please. 701 00:51:45,478 --> 00:51:47,437 - Look at this guy. Here he is. - Hey! 702 00:51:47,438 --> 00:51:49,397 - Man of the hour. - Look at this beautiful family. 703 00:51:49,398 --> 00:51:51,566 - How about you? - Beautiful. Yeah. How you doing? 704 00:51:51,567 --> 00:51:53,026 - You enjoying this? - Oh, my God. 705 00:51:53,027 --> 00:51:54,653 It's great to see you. It's great to see you. 706 00:51:54,654 --> 00:51:56,947 Listen, it's on me tonight, but just... 707 00:51:56,948 --> 00:51:59,574 You're too kind. Of course, you got it. 708 00:51:59,575 --> 00:52:02,160 Okay. It's good to see you all. Good to see you all. 709 00:52:02,161 --> 00:52:03,663 All right. Pleasure to see you. 710 00:52:05,289 --> 00:52:08,251 WIBC, December 1st, 1978. 711 00:52:08,918 --> 00:52:13,464 Meridian Mortgage bought Tony's land for 180,000 dollars in a sheriff's sale. 712 00:52:14,257 --> 00:52:16,383 Exactly as Tony had predicted. 713 00:52:16,384 --> 00:52:20,346 M.L., Bill, and Jack Hall died soon after the hostage crisis, 714 00:52:20,930 --> 00:52:22,473 Dick outliving them all. 715 00:52:23,224 --> 00:52:24,475 He and Ibby divorced. 716 00:52:25,142 --> 00:52:28,062 Dick got sober and remained so for the rest of his life. 717 00:52:29,272 --> 00:52:32,274 DA Kelley's strike team investigating police corruption 718 00:52:32,275 --> 00:52:35,652 was suspiciously shuttered two weeks after the crisis. 719 00:52:35,653 --> 00:52:37,737 Barbara Heckman went back to school, 720 00:52:37,738 --> 00:52:41,784 earned her college degree, and worked as a computer programmer. 721 00:52:42,827 --> 00:52:44,744 After decades in radio, 722 00:52:44,745 --> 00:52:49,624 Fred Heckman left WIBC after it moved into a talk-radio format, 723 00:52:49,625 --> 00:52:52,920 switching its focus to infotainment. 724 00:52:54,005 --> 00:52:56,298 Tony was held in contempt of court for 10 years 725 00:52:56,299 --> 00:52:59,468 and was housed in the state prison unit for the criminally insane. 726 00:53:00,261 --> 00:53:05,808 It remained the longest contempt charge in American history until 2009. 727 00:53:06,350 --> 00:53:07,435 What do you think? 728 00:53:08,978 --> 00:53:11,564 You're saying there... you're saying there's a conspiracy? 729 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:17,277 Every... Mr. Price has told me unequivocally that there's a conspiracy. 730 00:53:17,278 --> 00:53:18,487 Has he ever told you that? 731 00:53:19,447 --> 00:53:21,740 Mr. Price has told Joe Collins there's a conspiracy. 732 00:53:21,741 --> 00:53:24,744 Mr. Price has told Dan Luzader there's a conspiracy. 733 00:53:25,369 --> 00:53:28,038 My question to you is, that's all in the past. What about right now? 734 00:53:28,039 --> 00:53:29,497 What do you hope is gonna happen right now? 735 00:53:29,498 --> 00:53:32,668 Well, I'm a human being. I'd like to get my freedom. 736 00:53:33,336 --> 00:53:37,547 And after years of making a fuss, Tony scored a major victory 737 00:53:37,548 --> 00:53:41,593 when the Indiana Supreme Court ruled that the state had no right to force Tony 738 00:53:41,594 --> 00:53:44,221 to submit to a psychiatric evaluation. 739 00:53:45,222 --> 00:53:48,601 Tony was finally released in 1988. 740 00:53:50,728 --> 00:53:53,940 This is Fred Heckman, WIBC.