1 00:00:07,750 --> 00:00:10,208 [Matt] I think, when it comes to polygamy in Utah, 2 00:00:10,375 --> 00:00:13,250 hands down, from what I'm hearing, there's corruption. 3 00:00:17,250 --> 00:00:20,083 I was in what's called The Order, yeah. 4 00:00:21,208 --> 00:00:25,625 I participated in obstruction of justice. 5 00:00:31,542 --> 00:00:34,583 [Matt] I have been in law enforcement for 20 years 6 00:00:34,750 --> 00:00:35,958 and not one time 7 00:00:36,083 --> 00:00:38,667 was I ever meeting with an attorney general. 8 00:00:39,542 --> 00:00:42,958 But you put me out there as someone who took money 9 00:00:43,083 --> 00:00:45,333 and it affected my job. Bull [bleep]. 10 00:00:45,458 --> 00:00:47,500 You got 30 seconds right now to address 11 00:00:47,625 --> 00:00:49,708 every fricking rumor that has ever come out. 12 00:00:49,875 --> 00:00:52,167 Ask me anything. I told you, I'm not afraid of anything. 13 00:00:52,250 --> 00:00:54,417 You've never taken money from the Kingstons? 14 00:00:57,125 --> 00:00:58,333 [Matt] My name's Matt Browning 15 00:00:58,458 --> 00:01:01,000 and retired law enforcement out of Arizona. 16 00:01:01,083 --> 00:01:03,625 I was on both the Joint Terrorist Task Force 17 00:01:03,750 --> 00:01:06,167 and the Fugitive Task Force with the FBI. 18 00:01:06,792 --> 00:01:09,458 But, most importantly, I'm a husband and a father. 19 00:01:09,625 --> 00:01:11,375 And I was born and raised a member 20 00:01:11,542 --> 00:01:13,625 of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 21 00:01:14,208 --> 00:01:16,417 A few years ago, my wife, Tawni, and I 22 00:01:16,542 --> 00:01:18,917 were contacted by women who wanted help 23 00:01:19,083 --> 00:01:20,333 leaving the polygamist groups. 24 00:01:20,625 --> 00:01:23,583 Since then, we've been contacted numerous times 25 00:01:23,708 --> 00:01:25,625 by people asking for help. 26 00:01:26,333 --> 00:01:27,250 Some of these groups have a history 27 00:01:27,375 --> 00:01:29,625 of incest and child abuse, 28 00:01:30,458 --> 00:01:33,167 and are thriving right here in the United State. 29 00:01:34,375 --> 00:01:35,792 People need to know about this 30 00:01:35,917 --> 00:01:38,125 and that's why we do what we do. 31 00:01:47,875 --> 00:01:53,792 [music] 32 00:01:59,125 --> 00:02:01,708 [Matt] Think, when it comes to polygamy in Utah, 33 00:02:02,333 --> 00:02:03,500 the people in power, 34 00:02:03,667 --> 00:02:04,792 whether it's politicians 35 00:02:04,917 --> 00:02:06,917 or high-up people in government, 36 00:02:07,375 --> 00:02:09,083 they know what's going on, 37 00:02:09,708 --> 00:02:13,083 but they're not looking at it for one reason or another. 38 00:02:16,208 --> 00:02:17,542 They go by a lot of different names. 39 00:02:17,708 --> 00:02:19,125 They go by The Order, 40 00:02:19,208 --> 00:02:22,333 Davis County Coop, the Kingstons. 41 00:02:25,292 --> 00:02:26,500 The Kingstons are unique 42 00:02:26,625 --> 00:02:28,708 in Utah polygamy for a few different reasons. 43 00:02:28,875 --> 00:02:30,833 Back in the Depression era, 44 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,667 they formed a cooperative 45 00:02:32,792 --> 00:02:36,208 which was somewhat common during that era. 46 00:02:36,375 --> 00:02:37,833 The difference with this was 47 00:02:37,958 --> 00:02:39,917 it had a religious underpinning. 48 00:02:40,375 --> 00:02:42,667 They wanted to form a united order 49 00:02:42,792 --> 00:02:44,875 which is a Mormon concept. 50 00:02:45,333 --> 00:02:47,458 And, basically, the idea is that 51 00:02:48,208 --> 00:02:51,292 all your businesses are under this one umbrella. 52 00:02:51,417 --> 00:02:52,583 I this case, it's called 53 00:02:52,708 --> 00:02:54,875 the Davis County Cooperative Society. 54 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:11,333 [Brian] In 1935, Elden Kingston 55 00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:14,125 reported that he had gone to the highest peak 56 00:03:14,292 --> 00:03:15,375 behind Bountiful, Utah, 57 00:03:15,542 --> 00:03:17,667 which is just north of Salt Lake City, 58 00:03:19,708 --> 00:03:22,250 and there received angelic visitations 59 00:03:22,375 --> 00:03:26,417 and also put him in control of all plural marriages. 60 00:03:29,583 --> 00:03:32,458 The Kingstons were excommunicated 61 00:03:32,583 --> 00:03:34,875 from the mainstream church 62 00:03:35,292 --> 00:03:37,583 over the issue of plural marriage. 63 00:03:39,208 --> 00:03:42,625 After Elden Kingston died, his brother, Ortell, 64 00:03:42,792 --> 00:03:45,167 took the reins of their religious group. 65 00:03:45,667 --> 00:03:47,833 And Ortell had some interesting ideas 66 00:03:48,042 --> 00:03:49,500 about bloodlines 67 00:03:49,625 --> 00:03:53,542 and about a Holy Bloodline that the Kingstons possessed 68 00:03:53,708 --> 00:03:56,708 that went right back to Jesus Christ himself. 69 00:03:58,542 --> 00:04:03,208 [Matt] They are building a pure-blood race, they say, 70 00:04:03,375 --> 00:04:05,667 where the leader tells the young girls 71 00:04:05,750 --> 00:04:06,708 who they will marry, 72 00:04:06,875 --> 00:04:08,667 and a lot of these have been family members, 73 00:04:08,833 --> 00:04:12,292 so, allegedly, they're practicing incest. 74 00:04:16,667 --> 00:04:18,500 And when you talk with people within The Order, 75 00:04:18,708 --> 00:04:20,375 particularly women who have left, 76 00:04:20,542 --> 00:04:22,375 you hear about a lot of sex abuse 77 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:24,875 and a lot of sex abuse amongst the families. 78 00:04:25,042 --> 00:04:30,875 [music] 79 00:04:32,542 --> 00:04:35,333 In 2022, there was a law suit filed 80 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:36,667 against the Kingstons 81 00:04:36,917 --> 00:04:41,333 that included allegations of incest and sexual abuse. 82 00:04:43,083 --> 00:04:45,292 The Kingstons filed a counterclaim 83 00:04:45,375 --> 00:04:47,333 and the lawsuit was eventually dropped. 84 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:51,292 But the fact that people are still coming forward 85 00:04:51,417 --> 00:04:53,875 with these stories is troubling. 86 00:05:03,833 --> 00:05:09,667 [music] 87 00:05:22,625 --> 00:05:25,833 [Nate] There is a head of the church, Paul Kingston. 88 00:05:28,792 --> 00:05:31,500 He is both a spiritual and political, 89 00:05:31,625 --> 00:05:33,875 and business leader of The Order. 90 00:05:37,292 --> 00:05:41,292 You cannot be over a governmental agency 91 00:05:41,417 --> 00:05:44,500 in Utah and not know who the Kingstons are. 92 00:05:45,708 --> 00:05:48,708 And that's where corruption comes in. 93 00:05:50,833 --> 00:05:53,500 Because if the rumors of corruption are true, 94 00:05:53,625 --> 00:05:57,042 this corruption is preventing people 95 00:05:57,167 --> 00:05:59,000 from being able to speak out. 96 00:06:00,083 --> 00:06:02,292 One of the things that's interesting about them 97 00:06:02,458 --> 00:06:04,792 is they have quite a bit of money. 98 00:06:10,542 --> 00:06:13,375 They own a series of small businesses 99 00:06:13,542 --> 00:06:17,458 that produce quite a bit of revenue for The Order. 100 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,333 On the surface, everything appears to be legal, 101 00:06:24,500 --> 00:06:25,750 but the simple fact of the matter 102 00:06:25,875 --> 00:06:27,917 is there's so much about the organization 103 00:06:28,083 --> 00:06:29,833 that we simply do not know. 104 00:06:31,708 --> 00:06:34,042 [Matt] That's why Tawni and I are looking into 105 00:06:34,208 --> 00:06:36,667 the various people and survivors 106 00:06:36,833 --> 00:06:39,208 who have left the Kingstons that can help us understand, 107 00:06:39,375 --> 00:06:40,958 why is nothing happening? 108 00:06:41,083 --> 00:06:45,583 What makes the Kingstons to be so above the law? 109 00:07:06,292 --> 00:07:08,833 Is there corruption? Who did it pay off? 110 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,958 Who knew about it that didn't do anything? 111 00:07:11,333 --> 00:07:12,708 I have people speculating 112 00:07:12,875 --> 00:07:15,750 and that's why we wanna go talk to Ron Barton. 113 00:07:36,208 --> 00:07:37,667 Hey, Ron. 114 00:07:37,792 --> 00:07:39,750 Glad to meet you. Matt Browning. 115 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:42,250 Tell me about the AG's office 116 00:07:42,375 --> 00:07:43,667 'cause that's why we're here. 117 00:07:43,875 --> 00:07:47,042 The whole Polygamy Czar, how did all that happen? 118 00:07:47,167 --> 00:07:49,333 Well, they were concerned that there were victims 119 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:51,000 within the closed societies 120 00:07:51,125 --> 00:07:55,417 including the polygamist culture that were not being represented 121 00:07:55,542 --> 00:07:58,000 or receiving the full protection of the law. 122 00:07:58,792 --> 00:08:01,125 I had a position with the Utah Attorney General's Office 123 00:08:01,333 --> 00:08:05,833 assigned to investigate crimes within closed communities. 124 00:08:09,625 --> 00:08:12,667 Some used the concept of polygamy 125 00:08:12,833 --> 00:08:15,042 as a way to victimize other people. 126 00:08:15,542 --> 00:08:17,583 Men like to have power. 127 00:08:17,708 --> 00:08:22,000 They like to have sexual access to whoever they want. 128 00:08:23,042 --> 00:08:26,250 So take me back to when you get that position. 129 00:08:26,708 --> 00:08:28,500 Mark Shurtleff became the Attorney General 130 00:08:28,625 --> 00:08:31,417 shortly after I was hired to fill this position. 131 00:08:31,958 --> 00:08:34,833 Mark Shurtleff was extremely supportive 132 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,333 of my efforts to investigate crimes in polygamy. 133 00:08:38,542 --> 00:08:40,083 There were no guidelines. 134 00:08:40,875 --> 00:08:44,500 Tell me about what happened on Pioneer Day. 135 00:08:46,583 --> 00:08:50,000 [Ron] I first encountered Lu Ann Cooper 136 00:08:50,083 --> 00:08:53,333 early on in my assignment in the closed society position. 137 00:08:53,500 --> 00:08:56,875 Lu Ann was a very strong, courageous woman. 138 00:08:57,542 --> 00:08:59,292 She came into my office. 139 00:08:59,417 --> 00:09:01,375 She reported to me that she was a member 140 00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:02,875 of the Kingston group. 141 00:09:03,042 --> 00:09:07,125 She had been basically forced to marry 142 00:09:07,250 --> 00:09:08,750 Jeremy Kingston. 143 00:09:11,792 --> 00:09:14,042 What was your marriage date? 144 00:09:15,542 --> 00:09:18,625 June 16th, '95. 145 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:21,042 [Ron] June 16th of 1995? 146 00:09:26,708 --> 00:09:28,333 -Prior to me? Three. -[Ron] Yeah. 147 00:09:28,708 --> 00:09:30,542 [Ron] Three? So you were his fourth wife? 148 00:09:31,042 --> 00:09:34,417 And how old were you when you were married? 149 00:09:34,542 --> 00:09:36,083 Fifteen. 150 00:09:39,125 --> 00:09:40,833 [Man] Lu Ann was 15 when her family told her 151 00:09:41,042 --> 00:09:43,750 she had to marry a man who already had three wives. 152 00:09:43,958 --> 00:09:45,708 "I'm not ready because I'm too young," 153 00:09:45,875 --> 00:09:47,125 and he said, "No, you're not 154 00:09:47,208 --> 00:09:50,167 because my other three wives were 15 or 16." 155 00:09:50,708 --> 00:09:52,917 He was my cousin/nephew. 156 00:09:53,083 --> 00:09:56,667 And it gets confusing because everybody's so closely related. 157 00:09:56,833 --> 00:09:59,375 They're raised to think that it's okay 158 00:09:59,542 --> 00:10:02,292 because "Dad marries his sister 159 00:10:02,417 --> 00:10:04,083 and so I can do this to you." 160 00:10:04,875 --> 00:10:06,333 I didn't know at the time 161 00:10:06,542 --> 00:10:08,625 that being married to somebody 162 00:10:08,750 --> 00:10:12,333 that was 23 years old when I was 15 163 00:10:12,458 --> 00:10:14,042 was considered statutory rape. 164 00:10:17,125 --> 00:10:18,583 After I left, 165 00:10:18,708 --> 00:10:21,833 I started pursuing pressing charges against him. 166 00:10:22,708 --> 00:10:24,792 So Ron Barton went after Jeremy and arrested him, 167 00:10:24,958 --> 00:10:28,208 and we did DNA on me and my girls and Jeremy 168 00:10:28,375 --> 00:10:29,708 to prove that there is incest, 169 00:10:29,875 --> 00:10:32,000 and Jeremy went to jail for a year. 170 00:10:35,708 --> 00:10:37,667 [Ron] I had a warrant for the arrest 171 00:10:37,833 --> 00:10:39,333 of Jeremy Kingston, 172 00:10:39,458 --> 00:10:41,917 and I suspected that he would be 173 00:10:42,042 --> 00:10:45,875 at this Kingston gathering on July 24th. 174 00:10:49,042 --> 00:10:53,042 Pioneer day is a big celebration day for them. 175 00:10:53,167 --> 00:10:55,833 They believe that Christ appeared 176 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,167 to one of their early leaders on a piece of property 177 00:10:59,333 --> 00:11:00,333 in Bountiful. 178 00:11:00,458 --> 00:11:02,083 So every 24th of July, 179 00:11:02,208 --> 00:11:05,667 they have a large family gathering there. 180 00:11:06,083 --> 00:11:09,208 Early on, I was ordered by my supervisors 181 00:11:09,375 --> 00:11:11,375 that I wasn't supposed to go 182 00:11:11,792 --> 00:11:14,875 to visit any of these polygamist groups by myself. 183 00:11:15,583 --> 00:11:18,625 So I went there in violation 184 00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:20,750 of what their orders were. 185 00:11:21,167 --> 00:11:22,167 Arrested him. 186 00:11:26,042 --> 00:11:27,833 How many Kingstons were there? 187 00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:29,667 Hundreds. 188 00:11:30,625 --> 00:11:31,833 Wow. 189 00:11:32,167 --> 00:11:33,125 That's gutsy. 190 00:11:33,208 --> 00:11:39,250 [music] 191 00:11:42,875 --> 00:11:45,042 [Ron] People like Lu Ann Cooper 192 00:11:45,208 --> 00:11:47,125 have risked everything that they have 193 00:11:47,292 --> 00:11:50,667 to expose what's going on in these organizations. 194 00:11:53,083 --> 00:11:55,750 The whole organization or whole culture 195 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,083 makes it very difficult for them to report 196 00:12:00,875 --> 00:12:02,417 them being victimized. 197 00:12:03,708 --> 00:12:06,333 I'd given out my telephone number 198 00:12:06,458 --> 00:12:07,792 to a lot of people 199 00:12:07,917 --> 00:12:10,083 because I wanted the victims to be able to contact me 200 00:12:10,208 --> 00:12:11,958 anytime they wanted to, 201 00:12:12,083 --> 00:12:14,167 and I did get a lot of contacts. 202 00:12:14,333 --> 00:12:17,000 In fact, I was probably spending more time 203 00:12:17,083 --> 00:12:19,750 working and talking to people 204 00:12:19,875 --> 00:12:22,792 afterhours than during the regular day. 205 00:12:23,375 --> 00:12:26,500 I felt like I was getting a little bit burned out. 206 00:12:27,042 --> 00:12:30,125 I just felt like I needed to change. 207 00:12:36,208 --> 00:12:37,875 [Matt] Of course, you're gonna get a little burned out on it, 208 00:12:38,042 --> 00:12:40,125 so you leave, Jim Hill comes in. 209 00:12:41,250 --> 00:12:43,208 He writes 30-plus search warrants 210 00:12:43,375 --> 00:12:46,125 going after the Kingstons for incest. 211 00:12:46,583 --> 00:12:48,042 He had a judge sign off on them. 212 00:12:48,208 --> 00:12:50,583 He's out to execute the warrants. 213 00:12:50,958 --> 00:12:52,625 And what happened with those? 214 00:12:53,125 --> 00:12:56,000 I think Jim was ready to go forward with it. 215 00:12:59,167 --> 00:13:00,833 [Matt] You guys actually were gonna go out 216 00:13:01,042 --> 00:13:03,833 and change the makeup of how the Kingston was structured, 217 00:13:03,958 --> 00:13:06,167 and do great things, 218 00:13:06,292 --> 00:13:08,292 and I just don't know what happened. 219 00:13:08,458 --> 00:13:10,292 The warrants were ready to go, 220 00:13:11,708 --> 00:13:14,208 but someone put the kibosh on that. 221 00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:16,667 Somebody called them and said, "You're done." 222 00:13:17,208 --> 00:13:20,292 It screams something to me. What does that scream to you? 223 00:13:32,125 --> 00:13:33,833 [Ron] I was very disappointed. 224 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,917 Who were you disappointed in? 225 00:13:35,083 --> 00:13:36,208 Whoever made that decision 226 00:13:36,375 --> 00:13:37,917 that the warrants would not go forward. 227 00:13:38,083 --> 00:13:40,042 I still can't figure out who made the call. 228 00:13:40,542 --> 00:13:43,458 Well, I don't have firsthand knowledge of that either, 229 00:13:43,583 --> 00:13:44,958 who made that call. 230 00:13:45,167 --> 00:13:46,500 Who was the AG at that time? 231 00:13:46,583 --> 00:13:48,000 Mark Shurtleff. 232 00:13:52,167 --> 00:13:53,792 You don't think it was Shurtleff? 233 00:13:54,375 --> 00:13:55,958 No, absolutely not. 234 00:13:56,333 --> 00:13:57,000 Really, why's that? 235 00:13:57,167 --> 00:13:59,000 Shurtleff was totally supportive 236 00:13:59,167 --> 00:14:00,833 of our investigative efforts. 237 00:14:01,417 --> 00:14:03,250 So if there's one thing about all this stuff 238 00:14:03,375 --> 00:14:05,583 that keeps you awake at night, what would it be? 239 00:14:07,417 --> 00:14:12,958 That I worry that I abandoned victims within the culture, 240 00:14:13,583 --> 00:14:18,167 that I could've pushed forward and that, even today, 241 00:14:19,542 --> 00:14:21,500 that those things, those crimes 242 00:14:21,708 --> 00:14:22,958 that are occurring within the culture 243 00:14:23,125 --> 00:14:24,458 need to be investigated 244 00:14:24,583 --> 00:14:26,542 and that's not happening. 245 00:14:28,333 --> 00:14:29,375 [Matt] Yeah. 246 00:14:34,833 --> 00:14:37,542 I wanna find out who called off 247 00:14:37,708 --> 00:14:40,042 the execution of the search warrants, 248 00:14:40,458 --> 00:14:41,667 why they were called off, 249 00:14:41,792 --> 00:14:43,833 and if there's any type of public correction 250 00:14:44,042 --> 00:14:45,625 associated with it. 251 00:14:50,667 --> 00:14:56,500 [music] 252 00:14:59,208 --> 00:15:03,417 We're headed to a secluded location outside Salt Lake 253 00:15:03,917 --> 00:15:05,375 to speak to one of the sources 254 00:15:05,542 --> 00:15:08,500 of the DNA investigation that Jim Hill did. 255 00:15:09,042 --> 00:15:11,000 [Nate] There's typically not much of a paper trail 256 00:15:11,167 --> 00:15:12,667 within polygamist communities. 257 00:15:12,792 --> 00:15:14,708 DNA should be able to prove incest. 258 00:15:14,875 --> 00:15:17,667 If you've got too much of one family 259 00:15:17,833 --> 00:15:19,083 and one person's DNA, 260 00:15:19,208 --> 00:15:22,000 that would be a sign that incest was being committed. 261 00:15:24,958 --> 00:15:26,833 We don't know if money or corruption 262 00:15:27,042 --> 00:15:28,875 was the reason why these warrants weren't served, 263 00:15:29,458 --> 00:15:32,250 and we need to find out if this is going on. 264 00:15:32,375 --> 00:15:38,292 [music] 265 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,750 This person doesn't wanna be identified 266 00:15:50,917 --> 00:15:52,333 or shown or anything else, 267 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:54,583 so the more private and secure it is, 268 00:15:54,708 --> 00:15:56,292 the better off we are. 269 00:15:56,458 --> 00:16:02,333 [music] 270 00:16:04,208 --> 00:16:06,125 Now, if the search warrant 271 00:16:06,208 --> 00:16:08,250 would've been executed as it should've been, 272 00:16:08,375 --> 00:16:12,333 I know the leadership could've been hit with felony charges 273 00:16:12,417 --> 00:16:15,250 which is potential prison time. 274 00:16:17,542 --> 00:16:20,667 Do me a favor and just turn the cameras off 275 00:16:20,875 --> 00:16:23,333 until we get to where we're going. 276 00:16:29,542 --> 00:16:31,000 Hey. 277 00:16:31,208 --> 00:16:33,500 I'm Matt. How are you? 278 00:16:34,583 --> 00:16:36,875 Good, good, good, thank you for meeting with me. 279 00:16:37,042 --> 00:16:39,500 Are we around where Kingstons would be? 280 00:16:40,917 --> 00:16:42,208 Okay, good. 281 00:16:42,333 --> 00:16:43,833 That's what I was hoping for, 282 00:16:44,042 --> 00:16:47,083 that we can have a talk and you not as worried 283 00:16:47,250 --> 00:16:49,333 as you probably are, right? 284 00:16:57,208 --> 00:16:58,500 Kingston I can understand. 285 00:16:58,708 --> 00:17:00,208 Utah government, how's that? 286 00:17:03,125 --> 00:17:06,792 Okay. All right. 287 00:17:07,208 --> 00:17:10,083 And you were born into The Order, is that right? 288 00:17:11,917 --> 00:17:12,917 Okay. 289 00:17:13,708 --> 00:17:16,333 I've talked to people who've told me about the case. 290 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:19,417 Were you giving information to the AG's office 291 00:17:19,542 --> 00:17:23,542 on families, on people, on locations? 292 00:17:28,083 --> 00:17:31,208 And what was the purpose of the investigation? 293 00:17:56,375 --> 00:17:58,500 Do you know what some of the problems are? 294 00:18:17,833 --> 00:18:19,208 Wow. 295 00:18:47,667 --> 00:18:51,875 Wow. Now, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a geneticist, 296 00:18:52,042 --> 00:18:54,083 I'm not any of that stuff, 297 00:18:54,250 --> 00:18:56,708 and I don't think you are either. 298 00:18:57,583 --> 00:19:00,042 But it sounds to me like there's a pattern 299 00:19:00,208 --> 00:19:03,167 in all these deformities and abnormalities 300 00:19:03,667 --> 00:19:07,625 that all leads back to the whole incest thing. 301 00:19:09,292 --> 00:19:14,458 Wow. Now, you worked just with the investigator, Jim Hill. 302 00:19:15,208 --> 00:19:16,667 What'd you think of Jim? 303 00:19:24,625 --> 00:19:27,875 He took 2 years to write 30 search warrants. 304 00:19:30,458 --> 00:19:34,417 Can you tell me how it all just stopped? 305 00:19:53,708 --> 00:19:55,250 And then what happened? 306 00:20:06,125 --> 00:20:07,167 What was your reaction to it all? 307 00:20:36,917 --> 00:20:38,750 What's a "close relative"? 308 00:20:42,667 --> 00:20:45,125 Okay. What do you think would've happened? 309 00:20:45,625 --> 00:20:47,000 If they would've served the warrants 310 00:20:47,208 --> 00:20:48,500 and everything would've happened, 311 00:20:48,583 --> 00:20:50,625 do you think there would've been a change? 312 00:21:01,375 --> 00:21:03,958 Truly, honestly, I say this, 313 00:21:04,125 --> 00:21:06,667 if you need anything, please call me. 314 00:21:07,667 --> 00:21:11,750 And I hope I can call you too, and we will make a difference. 315 00:21:17,583 --> 00:21:21,458 Sometimes calling a lawyer for the defendant, 316 00:21:21,542 --> 00:21:23,875 it makes sense, sometimes. 317 00:21:24,375 --> 00:21:25,667 In this situation, 318 00:21:25,833 --> 00:21:27,458 it wasn't the smartest thing to do. 319 00:21:27,625 --> 00:21:30,458 What happens when you call the attorneys for the Kingston, 320 00:21:30,542 --> 00:21:33,500 they tell the Kingstons and everybody runs. 321 00:21:36,333 --> 00:21:39,167 All that time that Jim put in, 322 00:21:39,250 --> 00:21:41,417 talking to informants and getting information, 323 00:21:41,542 --> 00:21:42,917 just thrown out the window. 324 00:21:44,208 --> 00:21:45,708 Why would you do that? 325 00:21:45,833 --> 00:21:48,792 I am so motivated now to find out what's going on here. 326 00:21:49,917 --> 00:21:55,792 [music] 327 00:21:58,833 --> 00:22:01,333 When we're talking about the Kingston group, 328 00:22:02,292 --> 00:22:05,125 it's not just the incest that we have to look at. 329 00:22:05,542 --> 00:22:08,333 I think it's the totality of crimes being committed 330 00:22:08,542 --> 00:22:09,958 in the name of God. 331 00:22:12,708 --> 00:22:14,667 Washakie Renewable Energy scheme 332 00:22:14,833 --> 00:22:17,500 that was put together by Jacob and Isaiah Kingston 333 00:22:17,625 --> 00:22:19,333 who are Daniel's boys, 334 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:21,292 was brilliant. 335 00:22:22,042 --> 00:22:24,583 They've brought in $500 million. 336 00:22:26,625 --> 00:22:28,333 [Chris] What we eventually discovered 337 00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:31,583 is that WRE was a bio fuels company. 338 00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:33,167 And it turns out that they 339 00:22:33,375 --> 00:22:35,583 hadn't been really producing anything. 340 00:22:36,208 --> 00:22:39,375 But what they had been doing is taking these federal vouchers 341 00:22:39,583 --> 00:22:41,500 to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars 342 00:22:41,667 --> 00:22:43,042 from the federal government, 343 00:22:43,708 --> 00:22:46,875 and just taking that money and not producing anything. 344 00:22:48,417 --> 00:22:50,000 The federal government discovered the fraud 345 00:22:50,208 --> 00:22:51,625 because of some whistle blowers. 346 00:22:56,208 --> 00:22:58,458 And this winds up being an incredible 347 00:22:58,542 --> 00:23:00,792 half-billion-dollar fraud. 348 00:23:03,125 --> 00:23:04,708 Feds have run into some problems 349 00:23:04,875 --> 00:23:06,875 and that Davis County Cooperative Society 350 00:23:07,042 --> 00:23:08,333 and its various parts 351 00:23:08,458 --> 00:23:10,250 haven't been completely cooperative 352 00:23:10,375 --> 00:23:11,792 in where the money's gone. 353 00:23:11,875 --> 00:23:14,792 So however big and intricate you think the fraud was, 354 00:23:14,958 --> 00:23:16,625 it may have been even bigger than that. 355 00:23:16,750 --> 00:23:18,917 And the government doesn't have the evidence. 356 00:23:21,583 --> 00:23:23,333 [Matt] All money does within the Kingston 357 00:23:23,542 --> 00:23:24,917 is it brings power. 358 00:23:25,208 --> 00:23:27,792 Spend the money where you want. They have the power to spend it. 359 00:23:42,583 --> 00:23:44,333 I need to find somebody who's able to speak 360 00:23:44,542 --> 00:23:46,333 to modern day, like right now 361 00:23:46,458 --> 00:23:48,167 what's going on within the Kingstons. 362 00:23:48,375 --> 00:23:50,583 And it's really hard to find those people 363 00:23:50,708 --> 00:23:53,583 'cause some of the people who can speak of the corruption 364 00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:55,458 might've been part of the corruption. 365 00:23:55,625 --> 00:23:57,917 And so that's the battle I'm fighting now. 366 00:23:59,875 --> 00:24:03,958 So I'm looking for somebody within the Kingston group 367 00:24:04,917 --> 00:24:07,542 that, in or out, is gonna be able to give me 368 00:24:07,708 --> 00:24:10,667 some information on the Davis County Coop, 369 00:24:10,833 --> 00:24:12,375 the financial side of things, 370 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:14,167 as far as Kingstons go. 371 00:24:14,583 --> 00:24:16,833 So this guy's name is Kent Bull. 372 00:24:17,917 --> 00:24:19,167 Looks like he used to be a Kingston, 373 00:24:19,375 --> 00:24:24,042 but he can talk about the Latter-day Church of Christ, 374 00:24:24,208 --> 00:24:25,292 which is Kingstons. 375 00:24:25,375 --> 00:24:27,167 He can talk about the Davis County Coop, 376 00:24:27,583 --> 00:24:28,500 which is Kingstons. 377 00:24:29,042 --> 00:24:33,167 I came to realize that the truth claims 378 00:24:33,292 --> 00:24:34,625 that the group makes are false. 379 00:24:35,083 --> 00:24:39,292 And there is a structure inside of the group 380 00:24:39,375 --> 00:24:41,417 to controlling power and resources 381 00:24:41,625 --> 00:24:43,083 and people's minds. 382 00:24:43,375 --> 00:24:46,000 I like his eagerness. 383 00:24:46,167 --> 00:24:47,667 I understand what he's doing. 384 00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:48,875 He came from something bad 385 00:24:49,042 --> 00:24:50,542 and he wants to make something good. 386 00:24:50,667 --> 00:24:51,792 He's not afraid of doing it. 387 00:24:51,917 --> 00:24:53,667 He put it on a YouTube channel, 388 00:24:53,792 --> 00:24:56,000 so, yeah, let's get ahold of this guy. 389 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,500 Hands down, probably the most well-versed person 390 00:25:12,708 --> 00:25:16,125 in the criminal aspects of the Kingstons is Kent. 391 00:25:17,125 --> 00:25:20,125 He's been raised to take care of the financials 392 00:25:20,250 --> 00:25:24,167 and he developed the apps that they're using to this day 393 00:25:24,625 --> 00:25:26,917 for the Kingston banking system. 394 00:25:48,708 --> 00:25:50,250 -Hey. -[Kent] Hey, Matt. 395 00:25:50,708 --> 00:25:52,000 [Matt] What's going on? 396 00:25:52,167 --> 00:25:54,208 -Hey, it's good to see you. -[Matt] How are you? 397 00:25:54,375 --> 00:25:55,750 Sit down, sit down, sit down. 398 00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:58,917 Let's do this. Let's just start at the beginning. 399 00:25:59,042 --> 00:26:02,625 First of all, you grew up what? 400 00:26:02,875 --> 00:26:04,583 I was in what's called 401 00:26:04,750 --> 00:26:06,583 the Davis County Cooperative Society, 402 00:26:06,708 --> 00:26:08,167 the Latter-day Church of Jesus Christ, 403 00:26:08,292 --> 00:26:10,917 which is colloquially known as The Order, yeah. 404 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:11,667 [Matt] Okay. 405 00:26:11,792 --> 00:26:13,792 My name is Kent Bull. 406 00:26:13,917 --> 00:26:17,667 I am a member of the Kingston family. 407 00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:19,333 Is your dad a numbered man? 408 00:26:19,542 --> 00:26:20,625 Is he an important guy? 409 00:26:20,792 --> 00:26:22,500 Yes, he's number 26. 410 00:26:22,625 --> 00:26:24,500 According to the Kingston group, 411 00:26:24,708 --> 00:26:26,167 the numbered man concept 412 00:26:26,333 --> 00:26:30,750 is that there are 144,000 men 413 00:26:30,958 --> 00:26:33,667 who will reign with Christ at his second coming. 414 00:26:34,208 --> 00:26:36,333 That comes from the book of Revelations. 415 00:26:37,250 --> 00:26:40,042 He who has the lowest number has the most power. 416 00:26:40,208 --> 00:26:43,667 Paul is number 9. Daniel is number 15. 417 00:26:43,792 --> 00:26:46,292 Kent's father was number 26. 418 00:26:46,875 --> 00:26:48,333 The guy's got some pull. 419 00:26:48,458 --> 00:26:50,708 So Kent comes from a powerful family. 420 00:26:51,125 --> 00:26:52,875 [Kent] My father, he's on the board 421 00:26:53,042 --> 00:26:54,708 the Davis County Cooperative Society, 422 00:26:54,875 --> 00:26:57,292 the governing board, so he's pretty high up. 423 00:27:01,208 --> 00:27:07,167 [music] 424 00:27:09,417 --> 00:27:14,083 I, as a software engineer, built the software services 425 00:27:14,250 --> 00:27:16,083 that connected to the core accounting system. 426 00:27:16,250 --> 00:27:19,333 I built the systems. I know the data structures. 427 00:27:19,542 --> 00:27:20,792 I know how everything's organized. 428 00:27:20,958 --> 00:27:23,167 I know how it's labeled and filed. 429 00:27:24,167 --> 00:27:25,750 I wrote the software. 430 00:27:28,375 --> 00:27:29,500 What type of criminal stuff 431 00:27:29,708 --> 00:27:30,833 do you think they're involved in? 432 00:27:30,917 --> 00:27:34,875 Not just crime, lies, outright lies, fraud. 433 00:27:38,083 --> 00:27:39,708 Clearly, the elephant in the room 434 00:27:39,875 --> 00:27:41,250 is Washakie Renewable Energy. 435 00:27:41,375 --> 00:27:45,000 The top executives, Daniel Kingston's sons, 436 00:27:45,167 --> 00:27:47,625 Jacob Kingston and Isaiah Kingston, 437 00:27:47,792 --> 00:27:49,750 have pled guilty to fraud. 438 00:27:50,458 --> 00:27:53,667 To protect the Kingston family, I was instructed 439 00:27:53,792 --> 00:27:56,000 to remove evidence so that the federal government 440 00:27:56,125 --> 00:27:58,500 would not have what they needed 441 00:27:58,958 --> 00:28:00,083 to prove all of the fraud 442 00:28:00,208 --> 00:28:02,333 in the Washakie Renewable Energy case. 443 00:28:08,333 --> 00:28:09,667 I'm terrified. 444 00:28:19,792 --> 00:28:21,333 If there was anything that would get me in trouble, 445 00:28:21,458 --> 00:28:22,458 it would be this. 446 00:28:22,917 --> 00:28:25,250 I was at a American Digital Systems meeting. 447 00:28:25,417 --> 00:28:27,500 It's the group's internal tech department. 448 00:28:27,667 --> 00:28:29,083 I don't remember exactly who said it, 449 00:28:29,208 --> 00:28:30,792 but they said somebody from within the IRS 450 00:28:30,958 --> 00:28:33,208 told us that we're going to get raided. 451 00:28:42,208 --> 00:28:48,167 [music] 452 00:28:49,125 --> 00:28:52,625 And so they started planning for early February 453 00:28:52,875 --> 00:28:53,958 to have everything out, 454 00:28:54,042 --> 00:28:56,167 and about a week out, 455 00:28:56,292 --> 00:28:57,750 then we were planning, 456 00:28:57,875 --> 00:28:59,667 Okay, we need to do this, this, and this by this day." 457 00:28:59,833 --> 00:29:01,583 And so they said, "Go get this hard drive. 458 00:29:01,708 --> 00:29:03,250 Take it out." 459 00:29:03,917 --> 00:29:05,917 We left about 2:00, 3:00 in the morning. 460 00:29:06,042 --> 00:29:09,250 FBI team got there about 6:00 in the morning. 461 00:29:10,875 --> 00:29:12,458 [Matt] What were you told to remove? 462 00:29:12,542 --> 00:29:14,000 The inventory system 463 00:29:14,083 --> 00:29:16,708 which is an entire listing of all of the possessions 464 00:29:16,875 --> 00:29:18,250 of every member of the group. 465 00:29:18,375 --> 00:29:19,792 [Matt] Okay. 466 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,750 So I don't know if I'm gonna be a convicted criminal one day. 467 00:29:27,875 --> 00:29:33,875 I personally participated in obstruction of justice. 468 00:29:36,167 --> 00:29:38,042 [Matt] So you get hit with a warrant. 469 00:29:38,708 --> 00:29:40,000 Everything's gone. 470 00:29:40,750 --> 00:29:42,667 Week or two later, back to business. 471 00:29:42,792 --> 00:29:44,167 Back to business. 472 00:29:47,917 --> 00:29:51,792 What other forms of corruption is there going on? 473 00:29:55,375 --> 00:29:58,625 [Kent] Sean Reyes is the current Attorney General 474 00:29:58,708 --> 00:30:00,292 of the state of Utah. 475 00:30:01,208 --> 00:30:03,500 Right after the inauguration, 476 00:30:03,625 --> 00:30:08,167 Sean Reyes had a meeting with Jacob Kingston. 477 00:30:09,708 --> 00:30:11,500 My father told me 478 00:30:11,708 --> 00:30:14,083 that Paul said it would be good 479 00:30:14,208 --> 00:30:16,333 if I were to go with Jacob Kingston 480 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:17,750 to observe. 481 00:30:17,875 --> 00:30:19,708 It was this long table 482 00:30:19,875 --> 00:30:22,667 and on one side of the table was Jacob Kingston 483 00:30:22,833 --> 00:30:24,292 and everyone with Washakie Renewable Energy. 484 00:30:24,417 --> 00:30:27,167 And on the other side of the table, you had Sean Reyes. 485 00:30:30,250 --> 00:30:32,542 And they were leaned over in hushed tones. 486 00:30:32,667 --> 00:30:34,333 And they were talking and they were saying things. 487 00:30:34,458 --> 00:30:37,542 Do I know what they said? No, because I didn't listen in. 488 00:30:37,667 --> 00:30:40,792 Though, what I can say is that, after that meeting, 489 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,542 there was a $50,000 campaign donation 490 00:30:43,667 --> 00:30:46,250 to Sean Reyes by the Kingstons. 491 00:30:48,583 --> 00:30:51,125 Sean Reyes, he and his team lied 492 00:30:51,250 --> 00:30:53,375 about a $50,000 campaign donation 493 00:30:53,583 --> 00:30:56,292 they received from Washakie Renewable Energy. 494 00:30:56,417 --> 00:31:02,333 [music] 495 00:31:15,667 --> 00:31:16,833 So do you think that's the reason 496 00:31:16,958 --> 00:31:19,000 why law enforcement is scared to do anything 497 00:31:19,167 --> 00:31:20,958 when it's Kingston or Order related? 498 00:31:21,083 --> 00:31:23,125 In my opinion, yes. 499 00:31:24,333 --> 00:31:27,167 And you would go to your grave believing that? 500 00:31:27,333 --> 00:31:28,167 Hundred percent. 501 00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:29,417 Wow. 502 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,542 [Kent] In about September of 2018, 503 00:31:35,333 --> 00:31:38,417 I realized, "Okay, I probably don't want to be here." 504 00:31:38,875 --> 00:31:43,250 I thought, "How can I live with myself 505 00:31:44,042 --> 00:31:47,833 knowing that I helped the people that I love 506 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,417 be manipulated, abused, and enslaved 507 00:31:52,583 --> 00:31:55,167 by truly evil men?" 508 00:31:56,167 --> 00:31:59,292 I was a part of the machine. 509 00:32:00,375 --> 00:32:02,542 That's a kind of regret that never goes away. 510 00:32:04,208 --> 00:32:06,000 I think that, by telling this story, 511 00:32:06,125 --> 00:32:09,500 that it's gonna make people have to deal with it. 512 00:32:10,042 --> 00:32:11,292 -Let's do this. -[Kent] [whispering] Yeah. 513 00:32:11,375 --> 00:32:13,292 -All right? -[Kent] Okay. 514 00:32:15,542 --> 00:32:17,042 We'll get it done. 515 00:32:18,167 --> 00:32:20,292 Kent has a sense of anger 516 00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:22,917 because his family had him do things 517 00:32:23,083 --> 00:32:25,958 that he now is looking at 518 00:32:26,083 --> 00:32:29,333 as assisting and building a criminal organization. 519 00:32:31,833 --> 00:32:33,792 We know that Sean Reyes' campaign 520 00:32:33,917 --> 00:32:35,500 took money from the Kingstons. 521 00:32:35,708 --> 00:32:37,500 So you gotta ask yourself, 522 00:32:37,667 --> 00:32:39,375 "Is it at all possible 523 00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:42,083 that his predecessor, Mark Shurtleff, 524 00:32:42,250 --> 00:32:45,333 could have taken money from the Kingstons also?" 525 00:32:46,375 --> 00:32:49,542 There is only one person who can answer that 526 00:32:50,292 --> 00:32:52,167 and that would be Mark Shurtleff. 527 00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:11,667 [music] 528 00:33:13,125 --> 00:33:14,167 There's been a lot of rumors 529 00:33:14,375 --> 00:33:15,292 and a lot of things flying around 530 00:33:15,417 --> 00:33:16,542 about Mark since the beginning 531 00:33:16,708 --> 00:33:21,125 of working on anything polygamy-related in Utah. 532 00:33:21,292 --> 00:33:23,792 But that's why it's so important to go and talk to Mark 533 00:33:23,917 --> 00:33:25,542 to put an end to the rumors. 534 00:33:29,042 --> 00:33:31,250 We're going to meet Mark at the Utah State Capitol 535 00:33:31,375 --> 00:33:33,625 because that's what he has requested. 536 00:33:40,292 --> 00:33:42,208 I've received source information 537 00:33:42,375 --> 00:33:45,333 that Shurtleff actually called 538 00:33:45,958 --> 00:33:47,875 the Kingstons' attorney. 539 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,500 And after the phone call from Shurtleff 540 00:33:50,625 --> 00:33:52,208 to the Kingstons' attorney 541 00:33:52,375 --> 00:33:56,333 is when the key people in this investigation 542 00:33:56,417 --> 00:34:00,292 and in the search warrants all started leaving town. 543 00:34:04,833 --> 00:34:07,583 Jim Hill developed sources within the Kingston group 544 00:34:07,708 --> 00:34:10,917 that gave him 30-plus search warrants on incest. 545 00:34:11,708 --> 00:34:15,167 Then we were able to speak with one of his sources 546 00:34:15,292 --> 00:34:17,542 that confirmed the incest within the group. 547 00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:21,458 Those warrants in 2006 written by Jim Hill 548 00:34:21,542 --> 00:34:24,458 was the best chance that law enforcement had 549 00:34:24,667 --> 00:34:27,500 to stop the incest and stop the possible frauds 550 00:34:27,708 --> 00:34:30,208 that were occurring by the Kingston group. 551 00:34:38,042 --> 00:34:40,125 The people who the warrants were for, 552 00:34:40,292 --> 00:34:42,500 if found to be practicing incest, 553 00:34:42,583 --> 00:34:44,583 that would've been a felony conviction 554 00:34:44,708 --> 00:34:47,875 and it would basically knocked off that level 555 00:34:48,083 --> 00:34:49,417 within The Order. 556 00:34:50,333 --> 00:34:53,042 So what I wanna find out if money and corruption 557 00:34:53,208 --> 00:34:56,583 is any way tied into these warrants not being served. 558 00:35:07,458 --> 00:35:08,833 -Hey. -[Mark] Hey. 559 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,000 [Matt] How are you? I'm Matt. 560 00:35:10,125 --> 00:35:11,667 Good, Matt. Mark, nice to meet you. 561 00:35:12,250 --> 00:35:15,083 -You want me to call you Mark? -Regular Mark. 562 00:35:15,250 --> 00:35:18,000 As the AG, how did you get involved 563 00:35:18,208 --> 00:35:20,000 when it came to the polygamy side of things? 564 00:35:20,125 --> 00:35:21,833 So that's when I asked Ron Barton. 565 00:35:21,917 --> 00:35:23,042 He said he had an interest in it. 566 00:35:23,208 --> 00:35:26,125 And he ended up focusing a lot of his time. 567 00:35:26,333 --> 00:35:27,750 I think he ended up becoming full time. 568 00:35:27,875 --> 00:35:31,000 He even got that [indistinct] thrown at him. 569 00:35:31,208 --> 00:35:32,750 You didn't throw that label on him? 570 00:35:32,875 --> 00:35:34,375 I might've... 571 00:35:35,708 --> 00:35:38,458 The Kingstons, actually, I think you were 572 00:35:38,542 --> 00:35:40,542 one of the first ones that labeled them a crime family. 573 00:35:40,708 --> 00:35:44,292 Yeah, yeah, it just, it just looked like it to me. 574 00:35:44,875 --> 00:35:47,333 The fact that they have this business empire 575 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:49,792 that I believe is a criminal enterprise. 576 00:35:49,958 --> 00:35:51,000 Okay. 577 00:35:51,292 --> 00:35:52,958 People would come forward when it came down 578 00:35:53,042 --> 00:35:54,750 to actually charging... 579 00:35:54,875 --> 00:35:57,708 One gal came forward about having her baby 580 00:35:57,875 --> 00:36:01,167 with birth defects killed. 581 00:36:02,083 --> 00:36:03,375 Finally, we have someone who came forward. 582 00:36:03,542 --> 00:36:05,583 And then they backed out. They would do that. 583 00:36:06,292 --> 00:36:08,167 It was a criminal enterprise. 584 00:36:08,292 --> 00:36:10,083 We tried to get the feds involved. 585 00:36:10,708 --> 00:36:13,000 If you're labeling somebody a crime family 586 00:36:13,125 --> 00:36:14,333 and thinking that the feds 587 00:36:14,458 --> 00:36:16,292 are gonna come and take over for you, 588 00:36:16,458 --> 00:36:18,958 I've worked at the FBI, you've worked at the FBI, 589 00:36:19,708 --> 00:36:21,917 isn't it better just to have your own guys and go and do it? 590 00:36:22,042 --> 00:36:24,167 -Resources. -[Matt] Right. 591 00:36:24,292 --> 00:36:25,542 Why aren't they doing anything now? 592 00:36:25,708 --> 00:36:27,833 I don't think they have a Ron Barton or a Jim Hill. 593 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,583 Right, let me ask you this. 594 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,375 The search warrants. 595 00:36:32,375 --> 00:36:35,167 Jim was gearing up, getting guys for the DNA swabs, 596 00:36:35,333 --> 00:36:37,708 getting people, tac teams together, 597 00:36:37,875 --> 00:36:40,667 and it was a huge effort, a huge effort. 598 00:36:40,833 --> 00:36:47,375 [Mark] Mm-hmm. 599 00:36:47,375 --> 00:36:49,500 Who made the decision to say "Let's back off" 600 00:36:49,625 --> 00:36:51,792 and not to serve the search warrants? 601 00:36:52,250 --> 00:36:53,375 [Mark] It didn't feel right, 602 00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:55,042 so I said, "No, we're not gonna do that." 603 00:36:57,250 --> 00:36:58,333 So you're talking about the babies, 604 00:36:58,500 --> 00:36:59,667 swabbing the babies, swabbing the wives, 605 00:36:59,792 --> 00:37:01,583 and then getting the Kingston family, 606 00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:02,667 the men. 607 00:37:02,917 --> 00:37:05,292 All three have... We need them all, don't we? 608 00:37:05,375 --> 00:37:06,292 -We do. -[Matt] You got warrants. 609 00:37:06,458 --> 00:37:07,500 Yeah, you got warrants. 610 00:37:08,208 --> 00:37:10,833 Initial proposal was we're gonna go into church on Sunday. 611 00:37:12,208 --> 00:37:13,750 Why didn't you guys just to traffic stops? 612 00:37:13,875 --> 00:37:15,958 There's no resources here to do it. 613 00:37:17,333 --> 00:37:18,708 Okay. 614 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,208 You remember, after the time it was signed, 615 00:37:23,375 --> 00:37:24,333 the warrants were signed, 616 00:37:24,542 --> 00:37:25,625 do you remember how long it was 617 00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:27,167 before you called the attorney and said, 618 00:37:27,375 --> 00:37:28,833 "Hey, we got the warrants, 619 00:37:28,917 --> 00:37:30,458 so let's do this civilly"? 620 00:37:30,625 --> 00:37:32,333 I don't remember. It wasn't a long time after. 621 00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:33,667 I knew there was a clock ticking on it. 622 00:37:33,792 --> 00:37:35,958 It was like day eight, day two, day three? 623 00:37:36,125 --> 00:37:38,542 I would think it would be early on. I don't remember. 624 00:37:39,333 --> 00:37:40,583 [Matt] Not to sound like a jerk, 625 00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:43,167 but you know that was a bad call? 626 00:37:43,292 --> 00:37:44,500 Now, looking back on it, 627 00:37:44,667 --> 00:37:46,375 you know that they weren't gonna agree with you 628 00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:48,375 or they were just gonna run like they did? 629 00:37:48,542 --> 00:37:51,542 The only other option to make it happen 630 00:37:51,708 --> 00:37:54,542 was to go into their church and grab kids away from moms. 631 00:37:54,708 --> 00:37:55,500 Yeah, but... 632 00:37:55,583 --> 00:37:56,833 I don't know how we'd do that. 633 00:37:56,958 --> 00:37:58,583 I just wasn't ready to do that. And do I regret 634 00:37:58,750 --> 00:38:00,125 we couldn't prosecute those? Yeah. 635 00:38:00,250 --> 00:38:01,875 I had the hope beyond hope it would work. 636 00:38:02,042 --> 00:38:03,458 It was one other thing to try. 637 00:38:03,542 --> 00:38:04,583 In the meantime, we're gonna 638 00:38:04,708 --> 00:38:05,917 continue with our outreach efforts 639 00:38:06,042 --> 00:38:07,875 and try to get people to trust us and come forward. 640 00:38:08,208 --> 00:38:09,500 Egh. 641 00:38:10,208 --> 00:38:12,250 Don't do "Egh." I'm telling you, look, 642 00:38:12,417 --> 00:38:13,333 here's the thing... 643 00:38:13,458 --> 00:38:14,542 Mark, Mark, the problem is... 644 00:38:14,667 --> 00:38:16,125 Here's the problem about being a boss. 645 00:38:16,292 --> 00:38:17,333 Yeah. 646 00:38:17,417 --> 00:38:19,667 Everybody points the finger at you. 647 00:38:19,792 --> 00:38:21,167 -Yeah, point them at me. -And that sucks. 648 00:38:21,250 --> 00:38:22,500 Point them at me. 649 00:38:23,583 --> 00:38:25,250 [Matt] Did you ever have any sit-downs 650 00:38:25,417 --> 00:38:27,708 with Kingston attorneys, Kingstons themselves, 651 00:38:27,875 --> 00:38:29,292 Kingston leader, Kingston anybody? 652 00:38:29,375 --> 00:38:30,333 [Mark] Never. 653 00:38:31,042 --> 00:38:33,000 [Matt] Rumor has it, the time when you were the AG, 654 00:38:33,125 --> 00:38:35,917 there was a Kingston working at the AG's office. 655 00:38:36,625 --> 00:38:37,667 Not that I know of. 656 00:38:37,833 --> 00:38:39,167 I sure would've wanted to know that. 657 00:38:39,875 --> 00:38:43,875 Are you suggest that somehow I went light on the Kingstons? 658 00:38:44,042 --> 00:38:46,708 Because, if you're saying that, that's absolute bull [bleep]. 659 00:38:46,875 --> 00:38:48,583 That's cow [bleep]. It's horse [bleep]. 660 00:38:48,708 --> 00:38:50,000 -[Matt] I don't know. -All of the above. 661 00:38:50,167 --> 00:38:51,333 If that's what you're suggesting. 662 00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:52,833 No. How did I suggest that? 663 00:38:52,958 --> 00:38:55,000 I'm talking about how do we solve a problem... 664 00:38:55,125 --> 00:38:56,208 Whoa, why would you ask, 665 00:38:56,375 --> 00:38:58,625 have you ever had a Kingston in the office? 666 00:38:58,708 --> 00:39:00,500 You're trying to suggest, why did you meet with them? 667 00:39:00,583 --> 00:39:02,375 -No. -You must've had something... 668 00:39:02,542 --> 00:39:03,667 My dad's turning over in his grave 669 00:39:03,792 --> 00:39:07,292 because my daddy taught me honor and integrity, 670 00:39:07,417 --> 00:39:08,833 nothing more important than that. 671 00:39:09,042 --> 00:39:09,833 [Matt] I totally agree. 672 00:39:10,042 --> 00:39:12,333 And I did every decision I made in office 673 00:39:12,458 --> 00:39:14,708 based on getting good advice 674 00:39:14,875 --> 00:39:16,833 from law enforcement officers, attorneys below me, 675 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,708 looking into the constitution myself, 676 00:39:18,875 --> 00:39:21,208 getting on my knees, praying about it, 677 00:39:21,375 --> 00:39:23,000 and doing what I thought was right. 678 00:39:23,042 --> 00:39:24,417 But you put me out there 679 00:39:24,625 --> 00:39:27,875 as someone who took money and it affected my job. 680 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,125 Bull [bleep]. 681 00:39:29,250 --> 00:39:30,458 And it's highly offensive to me. 682 00:39:30,583 --> 00:39:32,042 I can totally understand. 683 00:39:32,208 --> 00:39:34,333 And you know what would help me and probably help you to... 684 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:35,625 What's that? 685 00:39:35,708 --> 00:39:37,458 Is that all the BS rumors, as you said, 686 00:39:37,583 --> 00:39:38,667 about you that are going on, 687 00:39:38,750 --> 00:39:40,250 you got 30 seconds right now 688 00:39:40,375 --> 00:39:43,167 to address every fricking rumor that has ever come out. 689 00:39:43,292 --> 00:39:44,500 Ask me anything. I told you, 690 00:39:44,625 --> 00:39:45,792 I'm not afraid of anything. 691 00:39:45,917 --> 00:39:47,708 You've never taken money from the Kingstons? 692 00:39:48,625 --> 00:39:50,167 Did I tell you "No"? 693 00:39:50,375 --> 00:39:51,167 That's why I'm asking. You said... 694 00:39:51,250 --> 00:39:52,208 -No. -Okay. 695 00:39:52,375 --> 00:39:53,458 How many times you gonna ask me? 696 00:39:53,625 --> 00:39:54,833 -You think it's gonna change? -No, this is it. 697 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,333 This is it because I want people to see. 698 00:39:56,458 --> 00:39:57,500 -Right. No. -I want people to know. 699 00:39:57,708 --> 00:39:59,250 -Hell, no. -Okay. 700 00:39:59,917 --> 00:40:02,750 I did not ever take any money from anybody. 701 00:40:02,875 --> 00:40:04,417 -Okay. -In an inappropriate manner. 702 00:40:04,917 --> 00:40:06,833 I don't know of any campaign contribution. 703 00:40:06,958 --> 00:40:08,667 I would never have taken if I had known that. 704 00:40:08,792 --> 00:40:11,167 Nobody gave any money to me 705 00:40:11,292 --> 00:40:13,500 from the Kingstons, from the FLDS. 706 00:40:13,667 --> 00:40:16,250 This should have been taken care of years ago. 707 00:40:16,417 --> 00:40:19,167 We have let one family grow into a monster. 708 00:40:19,708 --> 00:40:20,792 And the only reason why I'm telling you this 709 00:40:20,958 --> 00:40:22,417 is 'cause I got people calling me, saying, 710 00:40:22,542 --> 00:40:23,667 "Hey, what can you do? What can you do?" 711 00:40:23,875 --> 00:40:25,167 So now I'm standing here with Mark Shurtleff. 712 00:40:25,292 --> 00:40:26,542 Mark, what can I do? 713 00:40:26,667 --> 00:40:29,167 It starts with the media, with public outrage. 714 00:40:29,292 --> 00:40:32,417 That's what gets the attention of elected officials. 715 00:40:33,250 --> 00:40:36,000 You can convince whoever is in authority right now. 716 00:40:36,542 --> 00:40:38,875 Individual police chiefs, wherever they're at, 717 00:40:39,042 --> 00:40:41,167 a county sheriff, county attorneys, 718 00:40:41,250 --> 00:40:42,333 attorney general, 719 00:40:42,583 --> 00:40:44,125 somebody oughta be asking these questions of them. 720 00:40:44,667 --> 00:40:46,208 And then they oughta be putting the pressure on. 721 00:40:46,375 --> 00:40:48,667 I hate corruption in law enforcement. 722 00:40:48,792 --> 00:40:51,167 And I cannot stand cops that don't do their job. 723 00:40:51,333 --> 00:40:52,833 You took a stand at one time. 724 00:40:52,958 --> 00:40:55,667 Now I'm telling everybody else, "Fricking take a stand." 725 00:40:55,792 --> 00:40:57,000 -I agree with you. -Yeah. 726 00:40:57,833 --> 00:40:59,667 I sincerely think this is awesome. 727 00:40:59,833 --> 00:41:01,500 I hope the word spreads 728 00:41:01,625 --> 00:41:02,917 and this becomes something everybody watches 729 00:41:03,083 --> 00:41:06,917 and they get lots of angry Utah residents. 730 00:41:13,083 --> 00:41:15,917 [Matt] I agree completely with Mark 731 00:41:16,042 --> 00:41:18,583 for not wanting to do that at the church. 732 00:41:18,708 --> 00:41:20,708 I agree with that wholeheartedly. 733 00:41:21,208 --> 00:41:23,042 But there's other ways to take care of these warrants 734 00:41:23,208 --> 00:41:25,375 without making a phone call to an attorney 735 00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:27,083 and telling them ahead of time 736 00:41:27,208 --> 00:41:28,417 that they have warrants 737 00:41:28,583 --> 00:41:31,167 to serve for their DNA for incest. 738 00:41:31,292 --> 00:41:33,500 I can't say whether he did right or wrong. 739 00:41:33,667 --> 00:41:34,833 He was there. 740 00:41:34,917 --> 00:41:36,917 But I have to face the victims, not Mark. 741 00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:39,708 The most important thing is 742 00:41:39,833 --> 00:41:42,292 I think we should stay focused on the fact 743 00:41:42,458 --> 00:41:45,125 that there are victims within The Order 744 00:41:45,292 --> 00:41:47,417 who are afraid to get out 745 00:41:47,542 --> 00:41:50,333 because of the power that the Kingstons have. 746 00:41:50,750 --> 00:41:52,583 Stay focused on the crimes. 747 00:41:52,708 --> 00:41:55,333 Stay focused on protecting the kids. 748 00:41:55,417 --> 00:41:57,208 And we can take care of this.