1 00:00:06,500 --> 00:00:07,583 [Matt] I'm out here, trying to 2 00:00:07,708 --> 00:00:09,042 shed some light on the Kingstons 3 00:00:09,208 --> 00:00:10,667 on their prejudices 4 00:00:10,792 --> 00:00:13,625 and the allegations of incest that I've heard. 5 00:00:23,917 --> 00:00:25,375 Through the bloodline? 6 00:00:26,583 --> 00:00:30,083 [Woman] He literally had no reserve for life. 7 00:00:30,208 --> 00:00:32,292 Any birth defect we get 8 00:00:32,458 --> 00:00:35,250 will be worth the perfect babies that we get. 9 00:00:46,208 --> 00:00:47,417 The bloodline has to be pure 10 00:00:47,542 --> 00:00:50,500 and gay is not okay in their minds. 11 00:00:51,083 --> 00:00:54,125 I was pariah to the entire Order community. 12 00:00:54,625 --> 00:00:57,000 This is your time to tell me and everybody else 13 00:00:57,125 --> 00:00:59,167 what it is you want to see done. 14 00:00:59,333 --> 00:01:02,417 Go arrest the people who are breaking the law. 15 00:01:03,208 --> 00:01:04,500 [Matt] My name's Matt Browning, 16 00:01:04,667 --> 00:01:06,958 and retired law enforcement out of Arizona. 17 00:01:07,083 --> 00:01:09,917 I was on both the Joint Terrorist Task Force 18 00:01:10,042 --> 00:01:12,167 and the Fugitive Task Force with the FBI. 19 00:01:12,667 --> 00:01:15,500 But, most importantly, I'm a husband and a father, 20 00:01:15,542 --> 00:01:17,375 and I was born and raised a member 21 00:01:17,542 --> 00:01:19,667 of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 22 00:01:20,375 --> 00:01:22,625 A few years ago, my wife, Tawni, and I 23 00:01:22,708 --> 00:01:24,958 were contacted by women who wanted help 24 00:01:25,083 --> 00:01:26,250 leaving the polygamist groups. 25 00:01:26,708 --> 00:01:29,583 Since then, we've been contacted numerous times 26 00:01:29,708 --> 00:01:31,667 by people asking for help. 27 00:01:32,375 --> 00:01:33,583 Some of these groups have a history 28 00:01:33,708 --> 00:01:35,667 of incest and child abuse, 29 00:01:36,458 --> 00:01:39,250 and are thriving right here in the United State. 30 00:01:40,583 --> 00:01:44,333 People need to know about this and that's why we do what we d. 31 00:01:56,250 --> 00:01:58,792 We're in Utah, investigating one group 32 00:01:58,917 --> 00:02:01,917 who has a specific belief 33 00:02:02,125 --> 00:02:04,667 that spurs all their criminal activity. 34 00:02:06,292 --> 00:02:08,583 The Kingstons, the Davis County Coop, 35 00:02:08,750 --> 00:02:10,083 or The Order, 36 00:02:10,208 --> 00:02:11,917 is located is Salt Lake City, Utah, 37 00:02:12,042 --> 00:02:14,208 and the surrounding cities within. 38 00:02:20,083 --> 00:02:21,500 [Chris] They practice polygamy. 39 00:02:21,708 --> 00:02:24,167 They've been doing it for as long as they've been around. 40 00:02:24,292 --> 00:02:26,875 And they keep to themselves. 41 00:02:26,958 --> 00:02:28,125 They do their very best 42 00:02:28,250 --> 00:02:30,250 to not draw attention to themselves. 43 00:02:31,667 --> 00:02:32,833 [Matt] When they originally started 44 00:02:32,958 --> 00:02:33,958 during the Great Depression, 45 00:02:34,083 --> 00:02:35,542 they had a cooperative society 46 00:02:35,667 --> 00:02:37,833 where everything was brought into a storehouse 47 00:02:38,042 --> 00:02:38,833 and then divvied out. 48 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,750 Started out as a great idea, 49 00:02:40,917 --> 00:02:42,125 a great belief, 50 00:02:42,292 --> 00:02:44,625 that just got twisted as time went on. 51 00:02:46,667 --> 00:02:50,500 Ortell Kingston was a second prophet of The Order. 52 00:02:51,708 --> 00:02:57,625 [music] 53 00:03:15,292 --> 00:03:16,750 It's hard to find out what's going on 54 00:03:16,875 --> 00:03:18,042 in these closed societies. 55 00:03:18,167 --> 00:03:19,750 And what I'm trying to do is find out 56 00:03:19,875 --> 00:03:23,417 what is going on about this Holy Bloodline 57 00:03:23,792 --> 00:03:24,958 and the reason for it. 58 00:03:25,167 --> 00:03:26,917 The idea of a holy bloodline 59 00:03:27,083 --> 00:03:29,125 is truly unique to the Kingstons 60 00:03:29,250 --> 00:03:30,875 and their theology. 61 00:03:31,083 --> 00:03:32,542 One of the ways that the Kingstons 62 00:03:32,708 --> 00:03:35,750 have been able to keep this bloodline pure 63 00:03:35,917 --> 00:03:39,333 was by not allowing a lot of outsiders into their group. 64 00:03:40,042 --> 00:03:43,833 Members of the group have allowed a lot of interbreeding, 65 00:03:44,333 --> 00:03:45,833 close relatives. 66 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,792 Paul Kingston is Ortell's son 67 00:03:57,875 --> 00:04:00,375 who's been the leader or the man on the watchtower 68 00:04:00,542 --> 00:04:02,750 for The Order since 1987. 69 00:04:09,792 --> 00:04:13,292 The Kingstons will always defend their practice of incest. 70 00:04:13,375 --> 00:04:15,833 They claim that, because they're a small organization, 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,042 a small church, 72 00:04:17,208 --> 00:04:18,667 then there is going to be crossover 73 00:04:18,875 --> 00:04:20,750 in marriages and in blood. 74 00:04:28,625 --> 00:04:30,500 We speak to people who leave The Order. 75 00:04:30,708 --> 00:04:32,333 They tell stories about kids being born 76 00:04:32,542 --> 00:04:35,875 with genetic defects that they attribute to inbreeding. 77 00:04:36,042 --> 00:04:37,500 And you can see 78 00:04:37,667 --> 00:04:40,500 that for congenital malformation like a cleft lip, 79 00:04:40,625 --> 00:04:43,000 for disabilities of different kinds, 80 00:04:43,083 --> 00:04:44,792 genetic disease, early death, 81 00:04:44,917 --> 00:04:47,792 there's about a doubling of overall genetic damage 82 00:04:47,917 --> 00:04:49,375 in these inbred populations 83 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:51,833 compared to outbred populations. 84 00:04:52,292 --> 00:04:54,667 Incest within The Order is illegal. 85 00:04:54,875 --> 00:04:59,542 The birth defects alone is creating a hopeless future 86 00:04:59,708 --> 00:05:01,000 for these kids. 87 00:05:03,708 --> 00:05:05,167 I think that's why law enforcement 88 00:05:05,333 --> 00:05:06,667 needs to get involved. 89 00:05:07,333 --> 00:05:09,000 [Mark] Members of the Kingston family 90 00:05:09,125 --> 00:05:10,208 who would talk to us, 91 00:05:10,375 --> 00:05:12,375 they said incest was a big part, 92 00:05:12,542 --> 00:05:15,000 another marry within this holy blood 93 00:05:15,208 --> 00:05:16,667 of the Kingston family. 94 00:05:17,542 --> 00:05:19,625 So we got quite aggressive 95 00:05:19,750 --> 00:05:21,917 as far as getting search warrants issued 96 00:05:22,042 --> 00:05:23,000 and so forth. 97 00:05:23,208 --> 00:05:24,167 It is a felony. 98 00:05:24,333 --> 00:05:27,250 And it is more than just the practice 99 00:05:27,417 --> 00:05:29,292 of polygamy with these guys. 100 00:05:30,667 --> 00:05:32,500 I know that there is at least one 101 00:05:32,583 --> 00:05:35,375 conviction of incest with The Order. 102 00:05:46,708 --> 00:05:48,542 And I've been told by some survivors 103 00:05:48,708 --> 00:05:49,708 of other times 104 00:05:49,958 --> 00:05:53,875 where incest has occurred but was never prosecuted. 105 00:05:54,042 --> 00:06:00,000 [music] 106 00:06:09,417 --> 00:06:11,333 We're on our way to meet a person 107 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:13,208 who's born and raised Kingston. 108 00:06:13,792 --> 00:06:15,417 He claims to have information 109 00:06:15,583 --> 00:06:17,625 regarding incest within The Order 110 00:06:18,208 --> 00:06:21,167 and I wanna see what kind of information he can provide. 111 00:06:21,292 --> 00:06:24,292 He's really careful about showing who he is. 112 00:06:24,417 --> 00:06:26,333 So he doesn't wanna be seen. 113 00:06:28,500 --> 00:06:31,333 I believe that Kingston sources wanna hide their identity 114 00:06:31,542 --> 00:06:33,000 out of nothing but fear. 115 00:06:56,792 --> 00:06:57,625 Hey, man. 116 00:06:58,542 --> 00:06:59,875 I'm good, man. Thanks for meeting me. 117 00:07:01,875 --> 00:07:03,917 Why are you doing what you're doing? 118 00:07:04,042 --> 00:07:05,625 You can just walk away. 119 00:07:19,625 --> 00:07:21,250 You showing your face, 120 00:07:21,458 --> 00:07:23,750 what's the most that they could do to you? 121 00:07:28,542 --> 00:07:30,500 I need to ask you about the rumors 122 00:07:30,667 --> 00:07:33,792 that there's still incest going on within The Order. 123 00:07:53,458 --> 00:07:55,417 Uh-huh. Sure. 124 00:08:01,708 --> 00:08:03,250 Through the bloodline? 125 00:08:03,833 --> 00:08:05,958 How many of these incestual relationships 126 00:08:06,083 --> 00:08:07,125 do you know about? 127 00:08:14,750 --> 00:08:16,833 We're talking half-sisters? 128 00:08:27,875 --> 00:08:30,083 All for this pure bloodline? 129 00:08:31,042 --> 00:08:34,667 Have you seen, I don't know how to say it, 130 00:08:34,833 --> 00:08:37,500 the ramifications of this incest going on? 131 00:08:37,625 --> 00:08:39,625 Like birth defects and... 132 00:08:55,708 --> 00:08:56,958 Give me an example. 133 00:08:59,375 --> 00:09:00,625 No. 134 00:09:08,208 --> 00:09:09,167 All right. 135 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,792 Compared to The Order 10 to 15 years ago, 136 00:09:21,875 --> 00:09:23,750 has anything changed? 137 00:09:43,167 --> 00:09:44,292 How are they doing that? 138 00:10:04,792 --> 00:10:06,833 So they have an actual geneticist 139 00:10:07,042 --> 00:10:08,042 with The Order? 140 00:10:18,417 --> 00:10:20,208 What the Kingstons are doing 141 00:10:20,375 --> 00:10:22,625 is they're not going to outside sources to do this. 142 00:10:22,750 --> 00:10:25,000 They're keeping it within their own organization 143 00:10:25,167 --> 00:10:28,000 and having members become geneticists. 144 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:40,750 Okay. 145 00:10:47,333 --> 00:10:51,750 So they put her blood and everything in one database 146 00:10:51,833 --> 00:10:55,375 and then they match it up with some other guy, 147 00:10:55,542 --> 00:10:56,750 even the adults? 148 00:10:56,917 --> 00:10:58,292 What are they looking for? 149 00:11:00,875 --> 00:11:04,292 They want to get blood from A and blood from B, 150 00:11:04,458 --> 00:11:05,667 and put them together, and see 151 00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:07,875 what mutations may or may not happen. 152 00:11:08,042 --> 00:11:10,500 And the least mutations that they can get 153 00:11:10,625 --> 00:11:12,833 is the people that they will pair up together. 154 00:11:13,042 --> 00:11:15,000 But, most importantly, you're taking 155 00:11:15,125 --> 00:11:18,458 a young girl, stripping her of her choice, 156 00:11:18,958 --> 00:11:21,333 and you are making yourself God 157 00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:23,208 to create what you want, 158 00:11:23,333 --> 00:11:24,750 not what she wants. 159 00:11:24,875 --> 00:11:27,292 Decisions are made for them with the geneticist. 160 00:11:53,708 --> 00:11:55,917 What happens with all these birth defects? 161 00:12:09,167 --> 00:12:10,417 Jeez, man. 162 00:12:19,875 --> 00:12:22,292 So not only are they taking 163 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,542 blood tests, DNA, whatever you wanna call it, 164 00:12:25,625 --> 00:12:27,083 from the younger kids, 165 00:12:27,208 --> 00:12:29,792 but even the adults, so the brothers' DNA 166 00:12:29,958 --> 00:12:31,458 or their kids' DNA, 167 00:12:31,583 --> 00:12:33,375 people who are already married DNA? 168 00:12:34,167 --> 00:12:36,375 Then they're matching their results 169 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:38,792 with these younger girls' results? 170 00:12:38,958 --> 00:12:40,042 It's like what you said, 171 00:12:40,208 --> 00:12:41,667 they're trying to avoid birth defects. 172 00:12:42,083 --> 00:12:44,000 This is wrong, man. It's just wrong. 173 00:13:04,125 --> 00:13:04,833 Wow. 174 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,417 So your goal is what? 175 00:13:16,333 --> 00:13:19,750 It's just, it's mind-blowing for anybody to hear. 176 00:13:20,250 --> 00:13:22,167 So I got a lot of digging into this 177 00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:24,500 and we'll be in contact, I'll call you. 178 00:13:24,917 --> 00:13:26,417 All right. Thanks. 179 00:13:35,208 --> 00:13:36,833 Talking to the Kingston source, 180 00:13:37,542 --> 00:13:39,917 we discussed the members, the incest, 181 00:13:40,042 --> 00:13:44,792 and we got into birth defects because of the incest. 182 00:13:53,083 --> 00:13:55,292 Lu Ann Cooper is a Kingston. 183 00:13:55,708 --> 00:13:57,708 Her father is Ortell Kingston. 184 00:13:57,875 --> 00:14:01,792 Her half-brothers are Daniel and Paul Kingston. 185 00:14:02,375 --> 00:14:05,125 Her first husband is Jeremy Kingston 186 00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:08,833 who happens to be her nephew and first cousin. 187 00:14:09,208 --> 00:14:12,875 Lu Ann, by far, is the most knowledgeable 188 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,833 when it comes to the practice 189 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,792 of the Holy Bloodline with The Order 190 00:14:16,917 --> 00:14:18,917 who is willing to talk to us. 191 00:14:19,458 --> 00:14:20,625 My name is Lu Ann Cooper. 192 00:14:20,750 --> 00:14:22,833 I am from the Kingston polygamist group. 193 00:14:23,458 --> 00:14:26,500 I am an advocate for people that want relief 194 00:14:26,625 --> 00:14:28,208 from the abuses of polygamy. 195 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:32,917 My father, Ortell Kingston, was the leader. 196 00:14:33,042 --> 00:14:34,833 He died when I was seven. 197 00:14:36,208 --> 00:14:39,417 He believed that he wanted to keep our bloodline pure. 198 00:14:40,042 --> 00:14:43,125 And so we marry the family into the family 199 00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:45,000 to keep the bloodline pure. 200 00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:47,167 [Brian] Ortell had a belief 201 00:14:47,333 --> 00:14:51,917 that they were of the blood of Jesus Christ, literally, 202 00:14:52,042 --> 00:14:54,000 and he raised cattle 203 00:14:54,208 --> 00:14:58,000 and knew about conserving the bloodline. 204 00:14:58,958 --> 00:15:00,958 [Lu Ann] The Order had a farm in Woods Cross 205 00:15:01,125 --> 00:15:03,750 and my father, John Ortell, 206 00:15:03,875 --> 00:15:05,917 was breeding the cows on that farm 207 00:15:06,417 --> 00:15:10,042 and got the idea that if you could breed the perfect cow 208 00:15:10,625 --> 00:15:13,333 from the same bloodline, 209 00:15:13,958 --> 00:15:16,500 then why couldn't he do that with his bloodline 210 00:15:17,208 --> 00:15:21,125 and breed his own kids to keep his bloodline pure? 211 00:15:25,958 --> 00:15:29,333 He attempted to apply those same principles 212 00:15:29,458 --> 00:15:32,208 to human genetics. 213 00:15:32,375 --> 00:15:35,625 So you had a lot of closely related individuals 214 00:15:35,792 --> 00:15:37,542 sometimes marrying each other. 215 00:15:53,333 --> 00:15:54,750 [Lu Ann] Babies are disposable. 216 00:15:54,875 --> 00:15:57,500 In fact, Ortell Kingston, when he decided 217 00:15:57,667 --> 00:16:01,292 to start inbreeding to keep the bloodline pure, 218 00:16:01,375 --> 00:16:05,917 he said, "Any birth defect we get 219 00:16:06,083 --> 00:16:08,542 will be worth the pure-bred, 220 00:16:08,708 --> 00:16:10,333 the perfect babies that we get." 221 00:16:10,875 --> 00:16:14,833 He literally had no reserve for life 222 00:16:15,292 --> 00:16:18,667 and he raised Paul Kingston, 223 00:16:18,833 --> 00:16:21,083 Daniel, and all of those boys. 224 00:16:24,042 --> 00:16:25,125 [Matt] The amount of birth defects 225 00:16:25,208 --> 00:16:26,542 that come from incest, 226 00:16:26,708 --> 00:16:28,917 the amount of damage and traumas 227 00:16:29,083 --> 00:16:30,833 that it has caused on this child, 228 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,167 this baby, who has zero choice 229 00:16:33,292 --> 00:16:35,208 in what he or she is doing. 230 00:16:37,542 --> 00:16:39,708 And that's because some sick and twisted people 231 00:16:39,875 --> 00:16:41,500 want their bloodline to be pure. 232 00:16:41,667 --> 00:16:44,083 It's sad. It's just sad. 233 00:16:45,542 --> 00:16:47,458 [Lu Ann] They don't believe in birth control. 234 00:16:48,583 --> 00:16:52,000 Married women are told to have a baby every year 235 00:16:52,125 --> 00:16:53,958 to help The Order grow. 236 00:16:54,375 --> 00:16:57,167 Part of our role of building the Kingdom of God 237 00:16:57,292 --> 00:16:58,833 is to have a baby every year. 238 00:16:59,250 --> 00:17:01,417 So whenever a baby is born 239 00:17:01,583 --> 00:17:04,083 that doesn't make it, they keep it quiet. 240 00:17:06,708 --> 00:17:08,917 If one of my daughters would have been born stillborn, 241 00:17:09,042 --> 00:17:12,375 I would've had to pretend like it never happened. 242 00:17:32,625 --> 00:17:35,292 Lu Ann hooked me up with a co-founder 243 00:17:35,417 --> 00:17:38,792 of Hope After Polygamy, Julie Adkison. 244 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:41,333 What's good about Lu Ann hooking us up with Julie 245 00:17:41,458 --> 00:17:44,292 is that we can see both sides of the spectrum. 246 00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:48,417 Lu Ann was pretty much on the royal line 247 00:17:48,542 --> 00:17:49,833 with her bloodline 248 00:17:50,333 --> 00:17:54,333 while Julie was on the outskirts 249 00:17:54,458 --> 00:17:58,250 and was actually pushed out because of her bloodline. 250 00:17:59,417 --> 00:18:01,167 [Xavier] So bloodlines become really important 251 00:18:01,375 --> 00:18:03,000 because they give you authority. 252 00:18:03,208 --> 00:18:04,500 It tells people in your bloodline 253 00:18:04,667 --> 00:18:07,375 that, "Because we are descendants, for example, 254 00:18:07,542 --> 00:18:08,625 of Christ, 255 00:18:08,833 --> 00:18:11,167 we have certain attributes compared to other people. 256 00:18:11,292 --> 00:18:12,792 We're better than other people." 257 00:18:12,958 --> 00:18:13,958 So it gives you authority 258 00:18:14,083 --> 00:18:17,792 and it also reinforces the sequestering, 259 00:18:17,875 --> 00:18:20,583 the bubble, that's created. 260 00:18:22,417 --> 00:18:24,333 [Matt] Even though Julie's been out a long time, 261 00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:26,667 she has the same worries and fears 262 00:18:26,792 --> 00:18:29,958 that everybody I've ever talked to has left The Order has. 263 00:18:30,708 --> 00:18:32,333 Because of that fear that she has, 264 00:18:32,458 --> 00:18:34,708 she's requested that we don't show her house. 265 00:18:34,875 --> 00:18:38,083 So, for her safety, we're just gonna meet with her outside. 266 00:18:43,958 --> 00:18:45,583 -Hey. -[Julie] Hi. 267 00:18:46,042 --> 00:18:47,292 Jump in. 268 00:18:48,417 --> 00:18:50,583 It's a lot warmer in her than it is outside. 269 00:18:50,708 --> 00:18:52,500 [Julie giggling] 270 00:18:53,375 --> 00:18:55,500 -How you been? -[Julie] Good. How are you? 271 00:18:55,583 --> 00:18:56,583 Good, good, good. 272 00:18:56,708 --> 00:18:59,583 My name's Julie and I grew up in The Order. 273 00:19:00,875 --> 00:19:02,833 I grew up very different 274 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,208 than a lot of Order members. 275 00:19:06,667 --> 00:19:10,208 I had parents who protected me from a lot 276 00:19:10,417 --> 00:19:12,500 of what was going on in The Order. 277 00:19:14,542 --> 00:19:17,167 The Kingstons believe that they are the chosen, 278 00:19:17,333 --> 00:19:19,375 or God's chosen, on this Earth. 279 00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:28,208 Part of that is the belief 280 00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:30,667 of being white and delightsome 281 00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:32,375 makes you pure. 282 00:19:35,125 --> 00:19:37,333 Growing up as a kid, 283 00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:40,167 we knew that when dark-skin people died, 284 00:19:40,375 --> 00:19:42,000 they were going to hell. 285 00:19:42,542 --> 00:19:45,833 So that's the extent of that 286 00:19:46,042 --> 00:19:50,417 which breeds incredible racism. 287 00:19:51,208 --> 00:19:53,667 "We're better than you because we're white. 288 00:19:56,292 --> 00:19:59,000 We're better than you because our bloodline is pure. 289 00:19:59,167 --> 00:20:00,833 It goes all the way back to Jesus. 290 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,167 We can do what we want 291 00:20:03,333 --> 00:20:05,125 because we're God's chosen." 292 00:20:05,458 --> 00:20:08,250 Egh, makes me sick. 293 00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:12,208 Most have no idea this kind of stuff is going on. 294 00:20:12,375 --> 00:20:15,083 They heard about it here and there, 295 00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:17,000 but they didn't think it was real, 296 00:20:17,208 --> 00:20:20,875 no clue the extent of what things are. 297 00:20:21,708 --> 00:20:26,833 And a lot of my reason behind talking to reporters, 298 00:20:26,958 --> 00:20:28,208 telling my story, 299 00:20:28,375 --> 00:20:30,000 is awareness. 300 00:20:30,083 --> 00:20:32,375 Were you guys a popular family? 301 00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:37,000 We were a part of the outer circle 302 00:20:37,167 --> 00:20:38,583 because of my bloodline. 303 00:20:38,708 --> 00:20:40,125 What's wrong with your bloodline? 304 00:20:40,333 --> 00:20:42,250 It wasn't pure. 305 00:20:42,667 --> 00:20:46,458 My grandmother, she married an outsider. 306 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,125 He wasn't a part of The Order. 307 00:20:49,667 --> 00:20:51,125 He didn't have roots there. 308 00:20:51,292 --> 00:20:53,250 He wasn't part of that genetic line 309 00:20:53,417 --> 00:20:55,333 that they are trying to recreate. 310 00:20:56,458 --> 00:20:58,458 And they had kids together. 311 00:20:58,583 --> 00:21:02,042 And so, every child she had with this man 312 00:21:02,208 --> 00:21:04,000 had tainted blood. 313 00:21:04,333 --> 00:21:06,375 So how is his blood tainted? 314 00:21:06,542 --> 00:21:10,833 There is a rumor in The Order, 315 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,625 Ladonna was Ortell's wife. 316 00:21:15,625 --> 00:21:18,958 She is also Paul and Daniel's mom. 317 00:21:19,125 --> 00:21:22,708 She was the main woman in charge. 318 00:21:23,083 --> 00:21:26,542 She claims to have had a dream 319 00:21:26,708 --> 00:21:31,042 that anyone who marries an outsider 320 00:21:31,208 --> 00:21:33,333 will marry a black man. 321 00:21:33,708 --> 00:21:37,958 The Order believed, because my grandmother 322 00:21:38,125 --> 00:21:39,708 had children with him, 323 00:21:39,917 --> 00:21:45,250 then their children will be tainted by that black blood. 324 00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:47,792 -Is he a white guy? -Yes. 325 00:21:48,833 --> 00:21:51,375 [Julie] That relationship with my grandfather 326 00:21:51,542 --> 00:21:53,292 who was an outside man 327 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:54,875 didn't work out. 328 00:21:55,875 --> 00:21:59,833 My grandmother, she ended up coming back to The Order 329 00:21:59,958 --> 00:22:02,000 and married my step-grandpa 330 00:22:02,167 --> 00:22:07,000 who was in The Order and had more children with him. 331 00:22:07,625 --> 00:22:10,292 And so, when my grandma came back, 332 00:22:10,458 --> 00:22:13,500 that put my mom and her sisters 333 00:22:13,625 --> 00:22:15,167 who were born in that first marriage 334 00:22:15,333 --> 00:22:17,375 in that tainted bloodline. 335 00:22:18,250 --> 00:22:19,875 [Matt] So how was your life, growing up 336 00:22:20,083 --> 00:22:22,167 with that hung over your head? 337 00:22:22,333 --> 00:22:24,167 [Julie] Because of our bloodline 338 00:22:24,333 --> 00:22:27,333 and the rumor that we were black, 339 00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:29,458 we were outcast. 340 00:22:31,542 --> 00:22:34,292 Members don't really get kicked out of the order 341 00:22:35,667 --> 00:22:39,000 because The Order is also a business. 342 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:41,792 And members run the businesses. 343 00:22:41,917 --> 00:22:45,625 And so, anytime somebody is "less than" 344 00:22:45,708 --> 00:22:49,458 or outer circle, or have done something bad, 345 00:22:49,625 --> 00:22:51,625 you're just sent to the businesses 346 00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:54,417 that no one else wants to work at. 347 00:22:56,917 --> 00:22:58,750 When I was young, growing up in The Order, 348 00:22:58,875 --> 00:23:03,583 I was one of the families sent to live at the mine. 349 00:23:05,042 --> 00:23:07,583 I started working about six years old. 350 00:23:07,708 --> 00:23:11,208 I would cut piles of clothes into grease rags 351 00:23:11,375 --> 00:23:13,958 for the people who worked in the shop. 352 00:23:14,125 --> 00:23:16,458 It wasn't an option to say no. 353 00:23:16,625 --> 00:23:19,875 You were just told you're going to work here 354 00:23:20,958 --> 00:23:22,792 and you said, "Okay." 355 00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:26,625 The government, they think that it's just this "family" 356 00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:29,000 that's living their beliefs, 357 00:23:29,125 --> 00:23:30,917 and what harm can they do? 358 00:23:31,083 --> 00:23:32,167 Live and let live. 359 00:23:32,333 --> 00:23:34,875 But they are doing harm. 360 00:23:35,375 --> 00:23:37,875 The leaders of the Kingston group, 361 00:23:38,042 --> 00:23:39,458 if they're not stopped, 362 00:23:39,583 --> 00:23:44,375 I think that they're just going to continue to grow. 363 00:23:45,083 --> 00:23:48,167 And they've already become so much more powerful 364 00:23:48,292 --> 00:23:49,917 than anyone realizes. 365 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,750 [Matt] People within The Order believe 366 00:24:04,542 --> 00:24:09,667 that they are direct bloodline to who? 367 00:24:10,208 --> 00:24:11,208 Christ. 368 00:24:12,042 --> 00:24:14,167 You know what's sad is it's so engrained in you 369 00:24:14,333 --> 00:24:16,500 that you don't even realize that's your frame of mind. 370 00:24:16,667 --> 00:24:18,667 You don't even realize those are your thoughts. 371 00:24:19,542 --> 00:24:23,375 You can't continue all these practices, 372 00:24:24,042 --> 00:24:26,667 and then have someone run and ask for help. 373 00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:28,500 You have to instill that belief 374 00:24:28,667 --> 00:24:30,875 that the outside world is bad, 375 00:24:31,042 --> 00:24:33,083 that the outside world will hurt you. 376 00:24:33,458 --> 00:24:37,958 Most of the members are victims of the leaders. 377 00:24:38,625 --> 00:24:40,958 I was maybe 17 or 18. 378 00:24:41,375 --> 00:24:45,000 So one of the boys, men, 379 00:24:45,208 --> 00:24:47,958 went to ask for permission to marry me. 380 00:24:48,083 --> 00:24:51,167 The response to him was 381 00:24:51,625 --> 00:24:53,333 he can't marry me 382 00:24:53,917 --> 00:24:56,042 because of our tainted bloodline. 383 00:24:56,542 --> 00:24:59,667 I knew my grandpa wasn't an Order member 384 00:24:59,792 --> 00:25:03,667 and so that did give me less pure blood. 385 00:25:04,708 --> 00:25:07,958 One of my biggest things is with that black rumor. 386 00:25:08,083 --> 00:25:10,417 What would it matter if it were true? 387 00:25:10,583 --> 00:25:11,625 Why is it such a big deal? 388 00:25:11,792 --> 00:25:13,583 Why am I getting these looks from you? 389 00:25:14,042 --> 00:25:18,458 And even talking about it with all of you, 390 00:25:19,208 --> 00:25:23,000 it's just like, "But that shouldn't matter." 391 00:25:24,208 --> 00:25:27,167 I think they were okay with me being a second wife. 392 00:25:27,375 --> 00:25:31,042 I didn't wanna be a second wife. I wanted to be a first wife. 393 00:25:31,875 --> 00:25:33,500 When I found out 394 00:25:34,042 --> 00:25:37,375 that they were actually putting stock into that rumor 395 00:25:37,542 --> 00:25:39,875 and making decisions about my life 396 00:25:40,042 --> 00:25:41,875 based off of that rumor, 397 00:25:42,583 --> 00:25:46,167 it was a big opening 398 00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:49,708 to start to look at things 399 00:25:49,875 --> 00:25:52,500 and ask why. 400 00:25:53,583 --> 00:25:54,958 I was 18 at this time 401 00:25:55,125 --> 00:25:57,333 and at that point in my life, I'd forgotten 402 00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:59,458 that you can do that. 403 00:25:59,792 --> 00:26:01,250 You can ask why. 404 00:26:01,958 --> 00:26:04,833 And just the way it clicked for me, 405 00:26:04,958 --> 00:26:07,667 like, "Yeah, I can. I can do that." 406 00:26:11,250 --> 00:26:14,208 I left in 1999. 407 00:26:15,250 --> 00:26:17,750 Going to college and gaining an education 408 00:26:17,917 --> 00:26:20,500 helped me gain the confidence 409 00:26:20,625 --> 00:26:22,958 I needed after leaving The Order 410 00:26:23,583 --> 00:26:26,083 to know that I would be fine. 411 00:26:38,042 --> 00:26:41,250 Lu Ann and I started Hope After Polygamy. 412 00:26:41,417 --> 00:26:47,000 I wanted to start something ever since I left The Order. 413 00:26:47,375 --> 00:26:50,833 I knew a scholarship foundation 414 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,833 was the direction I wanted to go. 415 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,000 I wanted to give others leaving polygamy 416 00:26:58,167 --> 00:27:00,875 the stepping stone. 417 00:27:01,750 --> 00:27:06,500 I think an education helped me grow more 418 00:27:06,708 --> 00:27:09,417 after leaving than most things, 419 00:27:09,542 --> 00:27:11,333 most other things, did. 420 00:27:12,250 --> 00:27:15,708 My whole family left two years after I left. 421 00:27:16,667 --> 00:27:18,833 The one thing that we have 422 00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:21,667 to start this whole ball rolling 423 00:27:22,208 --> 00:27:24,125 is incest is a felony. 424 00:27:24,875 --> 00:27:27,292 This is your time to tell me and everybody else 425 00:27:27,458 --> 00:27:29,500 what it is you want to see done. 426 00:27:29,708 --> 00:27:32,875 Go arrest the people who are breaking the law. 427 00:27:33,833 --> 00:27:34,875 Why don't they do that? 428 00:27:35,042 --> 00:27:36,500 I couldn't have said it better myself. 429 00:27:36,875 --> 00:27:38,292 Now, who else can I talk to 430 00:27:38,417 --> 00:27:40,667 that wants to spread the word around about this group? 431 00:27:40,750 --> 00:27:43,500 It's just figuring out how to get him 432 00:27:43,583 --> 00:27:45,667 -to take those steps. -It's not a problem. 433 00:27:45,833 --> 00:27:48,000 -Sure. -All right. 434 00:27:48,708 --> 00:27:49,667 -[Julie] Thank you. -So I'll see you. 435 00:27:49,833 --> 00:27:51,250 -[Julie] Yeah, you too. -Be in touch. 436 00:27:51,417 --> 00:27:52,917 -Yep, for sure. -All right, cool. 437 00:27:53,333 --> 00:27:55,125 All righty, we'll be in touch. 438 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,417 So talking to Julie, she connected us 439 00:28:03,542 --> 00:28:05,042 with Joshua Kingston. 440 00:28:05,208 --> 00:28:07,167 He went on the run with his sisters 441 00:28:07,333 --> 00:28:11,042 because of the DNA search warrants in 2006 442 00:28:11,208 --> 00:28:14,250 on high-ranking members within the Kingston group 443 00:28:14,375 --> 00:28:15,875 to try to prove incest. 444 00:28:17,042 --> 00:28:19,458 Joshua Kingston went on the run with his family 445 00:28:19,625 --> 00:28:20,792 because they were trying 446 00:28:20,875 --> 00:28:22,917 to protect and preserve the Holy Bloodline. 447 00:28:23,042 --> 00:28:24,833 If law enforcement found out 448 00:28:24,958 --> 00:28:27,875 that incest was, in fact, 449 00:28:28,042 --> 00:28:30,042 being practiced within the Kingstons, 450 00:28:30,208 --> 00:28:32,125 then people could've gone to jail. 451 00:28:32,292 --> 00:28:35,083 That would've disrupted the whole pure bloodline. 452 00:28:43,708 --> 00:28:47,208 The true bloodline theory is not a victimless crime. 453 00:28:47,917 --> 00:28:50,083 Joshua Kingston went on the run with his family 454 00:28:50,208 --> 00:28:53,875 because of the DNA search warrants in 2006 455 00:28:54,042 --> 00:28:56,500 on high-ranking members within the Kingston group 456 00:28:56,708 --> 00:28:58,833 that were trying to prove incest. 457 00:29:04,208 --> 00:29:07,000 There were some search warrants drawn up in 2006 458 00:29:07,167 --> 00:29:09,833 to go out and get some DNA samples 459 00:29:09,958 --> 00:29:12,833 from children within The Order and men within The Order 460 00:29:13,042 --> 00:29:16,208 with the belief that there was far more sex abuse 461 00:29:16,333 --> 00:29:17,667 that had already been prosecuted, 462 00:29:17,958 --> 00:29:20,208 far more incest that had already been prosecuted. 463 00:29:20,292 --> 00:29:26,208 [music] 464 00:29:35,375 --> 00:29:37,042 [Mark] We were concerned about the incest, 465 00:29:37,208 --> 00:29:41,667 so, ultimately, we had our investigators, 466 00:29:41,792 --> 00:29:43,000 there were several working on it, 467 00:29:43,208 --> 00:29:45,667 put together multiple search warrant affidavits 468 00:29:45,833 --> 00:29:47,292 to take DNA. 469 00:29:48,958 --> 00:29:51,375 That's the only way you can really prove the incest. 470 00:29:53,375 --> 00:29:55,667 [Matt] The plan was to go into the church 471 00:29:55,792 --> 00:30:00,375 and get women and children's swabs in their mouth 472 00:30:00,750 --> 00:30:02,583 for DNA on a search warrant. 473 00:30:02,750 --> 00:30:04,542 What Shurtleff's concern was, 474 00:30:04,708 --> 00:30:06,417 "Well, we can't do this with kids." 475 00:30:07,083 --> 00:30:09,917 Safety concerns are through the roof in that situation, 476 00:30:10,083 --> 00:30:11,875 so that was never gonna happen. 477 00:30:13,833 --> 00:30:15,000 [Mark] It did not sit well with me. 478 00:30:15,167 --> 00:30:16,500 I didn't think that was the... 479 00:30:16,708 --> 00:30:18,417 Come in and frighten these people 480 00:30:18,958 --> 00:30:22,875 with guns and badges, and barring the doors. 481 00:30:23,042 --> 00:30:25,292 It didn't feel right as a way to serve it. 482 00:30:25,417 --> 00:30:27,792 And so I said, "No, we're not gonna do that." 483 00:30:34,958 --> 00:30:36,583 And we did talk to an attorney. 484 00:30:36,708 --> 00:30:38,708 And he was, "Oh, so grateful. Thank you. 485 00:30:38,875 --> 00:30:40,333 That would've been horrible. Thank you so much. 486 00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:41,917 Yes, we'll cooperate." 487 00:30:42,083 --> 00:30:45,792 And he thanked us and then they disappeared into the wind. 488 00:30:51,875 --> 00:30:53,542 All the fathers 489 00:30:53,708 --> 00:30:56,167 and many of the wives and children went into hiding, 490 00:30:56,333 --> 00:30:59,375 and we unfortunately could not serve those search warrants. 491 00:30:59,542 --> 00:31:00,958 They expired. 492 00:31:13,042 --> 00:31:14,875 [Matt] We're on our way to meet Joshua Kingston. 493 00:31:15,042 --> 00:31:17,500 He has the courage to come out and step up, 494 00:31:17,667 --> 00:31:20,125 and say what his life was like 495 00:31:20,958 --> 00:31:23,625 and what really happened in The Order, 496 00:31:24,292 --> 00:31:27,250 specifically, is this whole DNA thing. 497 00:31:28,083 --> 00:31:29,208 Josh is the only person 498 00:31:29,333 --> 00:31:31,000 that I have personally ever talked to 499 00:31:31,125 --> 00:31:34,333 that knows anything about going on the run 500 00:31:34,833 --> 00:31:36,625 because of the Holy Bloodline. 501 00:31:36,792 --> 00:31:40,250 Everybody else is afraid to admit that they did it. 502 00:31:48,792 --> 00:31:50,208 Hey. 503 00:31:50,417 --> 00:31:51,250 How's it going? 504 00:31:51,708 --> 00:31:54,000 [Matt] Ooh, it's cold. 505 00:31:54,208 --> 00:31:56,667 I wanna shake your hand. Thank you. 506 00:31:56,750 --> 00:31:59,292 So tell me, first of all, 507 00:32:01,208 --> 00:32:03,542 why do you wanna talk to me? 508 00:32:04,333 --> 00:32:06,042 I think it's important that the public knows 509 00:32:06,208 --> 00:32:08,000 what's going on with The Order. 510 00:32:08,083 --> 00:32:09,250 My name is Joshua Kingston. 511 00:32:09,375 --> 00:32:12,292 I'm a former member of the Kingston clan. 512 00:32:12,458 --> 00:32:13,542 We call it The Order. 513 00:32:14,958 --> 00:32:16,708 My father is Rodger Kingston. 514 00:32:16,833 --> 00:32:19,625 His father was Charles Kingston. 515 00:32:20,125 --> 00:32:22,833 I am the seventh-born from my dad. 516 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,333 Currently, he has 26 children. 517 00:32:26,167 --> 00:32:28,375 [Matt] Paul and Daniel are married to your sisters. 518 00:32:28,542 --> 00:32:30,833 And both Paul Kingston and Daniel Kingston 519 00:32:30,958 --> 00:32:32,917 are both high-up guys in The order. 520 00:32:33,417 --> 00:32:35,458 Paul's the leader. Daniel's his brother. 521 00:32:35,542 --> 00:32:37,167 So his number-one guy. 522 00:32:39,042 --> 00:32:41,333 Your story is just crazy, 523 00:32:41,458 --> 00:32:44,417 the whole bloodline, the whole incest, 524 00:32:44,542 --> 00:32:45,667 all of that. 525 00:32:46,083 --> 00:32:47,167 Yeah, everything... 526 00:32:47,333 --> 00:32:48,333 [Matt] And you know all about that. 527 00:32:48,417 --> 00:32:49,917 Everything involved is pretty crazy. 528 00:32:51,958 --> 00:32:53,167 [Matt] So when did you find out 529 00:32:53,292 --> 00:32:55,083 that you were different from everybody else? 530 00:32:56,167 --> 00:33:00,000 I've pretty much known since I was 11, 12. 531 00:33:00,708 --> 00:33:02,667 I learned at a very young age in The Order 532 00:33:02,833 --> 00:33:04,458 that I was attracted to men. 533 00:33:05,292 --> 00:33:07,958 I had never heard about gays in The Order. 534 00:33:09,875 --> 00:33:12,000 I was watching Little House on the Prairie one day 535 00:33:12,167 --> 00:33:14,167 and I was attracted to Charles Ingalls. 536 00:33:14,292 --> 00:33:16,000 That's how I learned what gay was. 537 00:33:16,208 --> 00:33:18,500 And I felt different. I felt strange. 538 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,750 The bloodline has to be pure and gay is not okay 539 00:33:21,917 --> 00:33:23,167 in their minds. 540 00:33:24,125 --> 00:33:27,417 When did you tell your family that you're gay? 541 00:33:27,542 --> 00:33:29,333 I just made friends and told them, 542 00:33:29,542 --> 00:33:31,375 and then my family found out about it. 543 00:33:31,542 --> 00:33:32,625 How'd that go? 544 00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:34,333 Not good. 545 00:33:35,083 --> 00:33:37,708 I was a pariah to the entire Order community. 546 00:33:38,917 --> 00:33:40,375 I got along with my sisters really well. 547 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:42,958 And I felt like I could be a little bit more myself, 548 00:33:43,667 --> 00:33:46,583 slightly feminine, if that felt natural to me. 549 00:33:46,750 --> 00:33:47,875 I could be myself around them, 550 00:33:48,042 --> 00:33:50,000 but, no, I do not believe 551 00:33:50,208 --> 00:33:51,750 that they would ever understand 552 00:33:51,875 --> 00:33:53,792 if I came out of the closet to them. 553 00:33:54,167 --> 00:33:55,667 I go to church. Nobody talks to me. 554 00:33:55,833 --> 00:33:58,625 Even my aunts and uncles, when they do talk to me, 555 00:33:58,792 --> 00:34:00,083 they wouldn't look me in the eye. 556 00:34:00,208 --> 00:34:01,458 At what age we talking? 557 00:34:01,583 --> 00:34:04,125 -Probably 16 when they learned. -[Matt] Sixteen. 558 00:34:04,292 --> 00:34:06,083 As long as I didn't act on it, 559 00:34:06,208 --> 00:34:07,750 you're allowed to stick around. 560 00:34:07,917 --> 00:34:10,958 And so they didn't feel it necessary 561 00:34:11,083 --> 00:34:13,542 to kick me out because I was labor. 562 00:34:14,708 --> 00:34:16,833 There were years that I was praying to God, 563 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,250 "Make me a heterosexual 564 00:34:18,375 --> 00:34:23,000 so I can marry multiple wives, tie into my family," 565 00:34:23,625 --> 00:34:26,542 and that answer from God never came. 566 00:34:29,708 --> 00:34:32,875 I felt like there was absolutely zero chance 567 00:34:33,042 --> 00:34:35,542 that anybody would try to relate to me 568 00:34:35,708 --> 00:34:36,917 regarding my sexuality 569 00:34:37,125 --> 00:34:41,917 because I had not heard of gays in the community. 570 00:34:42,375 --> 00:34:46,042 So it very much was my isolation. 571 00:34:46,792 --> 00:34:48,167 So as time goes on, you hear 572 00:34:48,375 --> 00:34:50,708 that the AG's office is coming after you guys 573 00:34:50,833 --> 00:34:52,000 or something like that 574 00:34:52,125 --> 00:34:55,875 with this whole DNA, search warrants, and... 575 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,042 Yeah, I was around for that. 576 00:34:58,542 --> 00:35:01,542 For me, it was my sisters went into hiding. 577 00:35:03,083 --> 00:35:05,000 A major turning point in my life 578 00:35:05,083 --> 00:35:06,875 was about 2006. 579 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,708 I was around 18 years old. 580 00:35:09,542 --> 00:35:11,458 Why would your sisters go into hiding? 581 00:35:13,250 --> 00:35:16,375 Paul and Daniel are both married to my sisters 582 00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:20,833 to avoid DNA warrants from being carried out. 583 00:35:21,042 --> 00:35:23,167 [Matt] Okay, and what are Paul and Daniel to your sisters 584 00:35:23,375 --> 00:35:26,333 besides they're husband and wife? 585 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:27,208 Cousins. 586 00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:28,333 [Matt] All right, so first cousins? 587 00:35:28,417 --> 00:35:29,667 -Yes. -Yeah, first cousins 588 00:35:29,792 --> 00:35:32,833 which would, by law, is incest in Utah, correct? 589 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,167 [Joshua] Illegal. 590 00:35:34,333 --> 00:35:35,292 [Matt] So, you just, all of a sudden, 591 00:35:35,417 --> 00:35:39,500 your sisters are gone and it's like 592 00:35:39,667 --> 00:35:40,833 you start questioning, 593 00:35:40,917 --> 00:35:42,667 "Where'd my sisters go?" or anything? 594 00:35:43,125 --> 00:35:45,375 Yeah, they just vanished into thin air. 595 00:35:45,542 --> 00:35:48,333 So it was a little bit unnerving for me. 596 00:35:48,542 --> 00:35:51,292 And so they just showed up one day. 597 00:35:52,167 --> 00:35:54,042 -Your sisters just showed up? -[Joshua] Yeah. 598 00:35:54,542 --> 00:35:56,417 They were allowed to come see us just for the day. 599 00:35:56,542 --> 00:35:58,458 This is after months of not seeing them. 600 00:35:58,625 --> 00:35:59,333 Okay. 601 00:35:59,458 --> 00:36:02,458 And had a few hours with them. 602 00:36:03,250 --> 00:36:05,083 And then they said, "We have to go back into hiding." 603 00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:07,583 And at that point, I was so miserable 604 00:36:07,708 --> 00:36:09,333 in The Order, gay, 605 00:36:09,542 --> 00:36:11,833 I had the decision, I either need to leave. 606 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,958 In my mind, I either need to leave 607 00:36:14,042 --> 00:36:15,333 so that I can be happy 608 00:36:15,708 --> 00:36:19,833 or stay and be miserable in turmoil. 609 00:36:20,042 --> 00:36:21,958 So I prayed to God for a third option. 610 00:36:22,125 --> 00:36:25,292 And I saw that opportunity 611 00:36:25,458 --> 00:36:27,708 in returning with them into hiding. 612 00:36:28,417 --> 00:36:30,167 Daniel was against it at first, 613 00:36:30,333 --> 00:36:31,750 but he eventually came around. 614 00:36:31,917 --> 00:36:35,042 I think Daniel finally came around to the idea 615 00:36:35,125 --> 00:36:38,417 that leaving three women alone is not safe, 616 00:36:38,583 --> 00:36:41,000 so he came around to the idea 617 00:36:41,125 --> 00:36:42,708 of me going to help out. 618 00:36:44,333 --> 00:36:48,167 So we climbed into a van 619 00:36:48,708 --> 00:36:49,667 and headed out. 620 00:37:00,708 --> 00:37:03,042 [Matt] So you went with them. Where were they at? 621 00:37:03,208 --> 00:37:04,042 Where were they hiding at? 622 00:37:04,208 --> 00:37:05,458 Colorado. 623 00:37:05,542 --> 00:37:07,958 Tell me, basically, how everything worked. 624 00:37:08,375 --> 00:37:09,958 Did you get sent away? 625 00:37:10,083 --> 00:37:12,083 Did Paul and Daniel send you guys money? 626 00:37:12,833 --> 00:37:14,958 No, he wasn't supporting his wives, financially. 627 00:37:15,083 --> 00:37:17,708 He did give them the opportunity to provide for themselves 628 00:37:17,875 --> 00:37:18,750 which was nice. 629 00:37:19,375 --> 00:37:21,167 -Oh, what a sweetheart. -[Joshua] Yeah. 630 00:37:21,292 --> 00:37:23,000 "Here, you wanna live. Go get a job." 631 00:37:23,208 --> 00:37:25,000 -[Joshua] Yeah. -That's what it was. 632 00:37:25,167 --> 00:37:26,792 The Order already had an operation here 633 00:37:26,917 --> 00:37:28,667 winterizing foreclosed homes. 634 00:37:28,792 --> 00:37:31,542 And so they would have the same company 635 00:37:31,708 --> 00:37:34,458 bid the jobs in Colorado, pass them to the wives, 636 00:37:34,542 --> 00:37:35,417 and the wives would go out 637 00:37:35,583 --> 00:37:36,833 and make a living for themselves 638 00:37:37,042 --> 00:37:38,333 under pseudonym names. 639 00:37:38,458 --> 00:37:39,750 How were they living? 640 00:37:39,958 --> 00:37:42,667 When I showed up, they were living in a town home, 641 00:37:42,875 --> 00:37:45,833 three wives to a town home with all of their children. 642 00:37:46,042 --> 00:37:48,833 Who else had to leave because of the DNA, do you know? 643 00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:51,125 Twenty-seven individuals including the children. 644 00:37:51,250 --> 00:37:53,417 -In one town home. -[Joshua] Mm-hmm. 645 00:37:54,125 --> 00:37:56,167 I remember my sister telling me 646 00:37:56,292 --> 00:37:58,083 they had arrived in Colorado 647 00:37:58,250 --> 00:38:00,750 and she was extremely upset. 648 00:38:00,917 --> 00:38:01,958 She was crying. 649 00:38:02,833 --> 00:38:06,167 She told me her children were on the floor, 650 00:38:06,375 --> 00:38:10,417 playing with little cutouts of paper animals 651 00:38:10,542 --> 00:38:12,792 because they had been forced to leave their toys at home. 652 00:38:12,875 --> 00:38:14,625 I remember her telling me 653 00:38:16,125 --> 00:38:18,042 that she was ashamed 654 00:38:18,708 --> 00:38:21,083 that her children were able to find light 655 00:38:21,208 --> 00:38:22,417 and hope in that situation 656 00:38:22,542 --> 00:38:25,333 and she wasn't able to bring that out of herself. 657 00:38:25,792 --> 00:38:26,833 It was upsetting 658 00:38:26,958 --> 00:38:29,208 to learn that these children had been uprooted 659 00:38:29,375 --> 00:38:30,500 and they weren't able 660 00:38:30,708 --> 00:38:32,542 to associate with their family anymore. 661 00:38:33,125 --> 00:38:34,792 [Matt] How long did you stay there? 662 00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,667 I was in Colorado with them for a year. 663 00:38:37,875 --> 00:38:39,542 Did Daniel ever show up? 664 00:38:39,667 --> 00:38:42,625 [Joshua] Both Daniel and Paul would show up 665 00:38:42,792 --> 00:38:45,500 the impregnate the wives and then they'd leave. 666 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,917 My sisters would talk about that experience 667 00:38:48,042 --> 00:38:49,667 and they'd cry. 668 00:38:50,167 --> 00:38:51,625 But it's what we had to do. 669 00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:54,375 God expected it of them, Paul expected it of them. 670 00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:56,375 So it keeps the bloodline pure. 671 00:38:56,875 --> 00:38:58,667 [Matt] Dude, you're blowing my mind here. 672 00:39:00,042 --> 00:39:01,500 So Daniel and Paul would show up, 673 00:39:01,667 --> 00:39:04,125 have sex with the girls to get them pregnant, 674 00:39:04,292 --> 00:39:05,542 and then they'd leave? 675 00:39:05,833 --> 00:39:07,083 Exactly. Yeah. 676 00:39:07,542 --> 00:39:09,292 Dude, does Paul... 677 00:39:09,417 --> 00:39:11,875 Do these guys ever take responsibility for anything? 678 00:39:12,042 --> 00:39:13,500 [Joshua] No. Nope. 679 00:39:14,417 --> 00:39:17,167 They will uproot their own children's lives 680 00:39:17,333 --> 00:39:19,167 if it means protecting their own assets. 681 00:39:19,792 --> 00:39:21,917 I started to feel like I was trapped there. 682 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,667 So I felt like I needed to get away from this situation 683 00:39:24,833 --> 00:39:27,542 just as much as I needed to get away from The Order. 684 00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:37,875 I didn't want to run the risk of them 685 00:39:39,875 --> 00:39:41,000 convincing me to stay, 686 00:39:41,208 --> 00:39:45,042 so I didn't let them know or say goodbye to any of them. 687 00:39:45,125 --> 00:39:46,417 It was stressful. 688 00:39:46,583 --> 00:39:49,792 I felt like I would be abandoning all of these kids. 689 00:39:49,958 --> 00:39:52,125 I felt like I would be abandoning my sisters. 690 00:39:52,708 --> 00:39:55,542 So it was difficult to leave. 691 00:39:56,042 --> 00:39:59,333 But for my own health and sanity, I had to do it. 692 00:39:59,542 --> 00:40:03,500 So it was only a matter of how and when. 693 00:40:03,583 --> 00:40:05,792 And that opportunity did come 694 00:40:06,375 --> 00:40:09,667 when I learned Daniel needed me to drive 695 00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:13,375 the wives' van back to Utah in order to register it. 696 00:40:13,542 --> 00:40:14,833 And so I saw that as my opportunity. 697 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,500 "I'm going to drive this van to Utah 698 00:40:17,667 --> 00:40:20,708 and I'm going to stay in Utah." 699 00:40:21,208 --> 00:40:22,458 And that's what I did. 700 00:40:24,042 --> 00:40:26,500 I really didn't know when I would see them again. 701 00:40:29,208 --> 00:40:30,958 But it didn't necessarily matter 702 00:40:31,125 --> 00:40:34,167 because, even though I was going back to Utah, 703 00:40:34,875 --> 00:40:38,292 I wouldn't be able to go back into The Order regardless. 704 00:40:38,417 --> 00:40:40,542 So I just made up my mind 705 00:40:40,750 --> 00:40:44,042 that I was cutting ties and going to live my life. 706 00:40:44,583 --> 00:40:47,083 It was an empowering moment. 707 00:40:47,417 --> 00:40:49,000 Huge weight off my chest. 708 00:40:50,042 --> 00:40:53,083 I didn't necessarily have anywhere to go immediately 709 00:40:53,208 --> 00:40:54,458 when I got back to Utah. 710 00:40:54,583 --> 00:40:56,417 My brother allowed me to stay with him. 711 00:40:56,708 --> 00:40:58,583 I got a job at a diner. 712 00:40:58,708 --> 00:41:01,833 From there, it was a few years of couch-surfing 713 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,000 on friends' couches 714 00:41:03,208 --> 00:41:05,917 until I could afford my own place. 715 00:41:06,375 --> 00:41:07,708 [Matt] Why don't you just get out of here? 716 00:41:07,917 --> 00:41:09,250 [Joshua] Why don't I get out of Utah? 717 00:41:09,375 --> 00:41:11,000 Yeah, what keeps you here? 718 00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:13,750 I prefer to be close to my family 719 00:41:13,917 --> 00:41:15,833 in case any one of them wants to reach out. 720 00:41:16,292 --> 00:41:18,500 If anything changes and they want a relationship with me, 721 00:41:18,708 --> 00:41:20,083 I wanna be close to them. 722 00:41:20,792 --> 00:41:21,750 [Matt] Wow. 723 00:41:22,125 --> 00:41:25,958 It would be amazing if my family 724 00:41:27,458 --> 00:41:28,542 met my husband 725 00:41:28,667 --> 00:41:29,875 and if I was able to interact with them, 726 00:41:30,042 --> 00:41:32,917 and if my husband could be a part of that family. 727 00:41:33,833 --> 00:41:36,708 And things like that, that's never going to happen. 728 00:41:37,708 --> 00:41:41,833 And so, you think now, if, say, the AG, 729 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,917 the county attorney, 730 00:41:43,083 --> 00:41:44,833 any law enforcement, were to come in 731 00:41:45,042 --> 00:41:49,292 with warrants to get DNA from people, 732 00:41:49,417 --> 00:41:51,833 the incest will probably still show up? 733 00:41:52,250 --> 00:41:53,875 They're never gonna give that up. 734 00:41:54,917 --> 00:41:56,042 -I appreciate it, man. -[Joshua] No problem. 735 00:41:56,292 --> 00:41:58,292 It was nice talking to you. It was great to meet you. 736 00:41:58,375 --> 00:41:59,500 [Joshua] Good to meet you too. 737 00:41:59,708 --> 00:42:01,500 Please stay in contact 738 00:42:01,667 --> 00:42:04,000 and we'll see what we can do. 739 00:42:04,125 --> 00:42:05,167 [Joshua] Will do. 740 00:42:09,042 --> 00:42:10,417 [Matt] Within The Order, 741 00:42:10,875 --> 00:42:14,042 they're taught, because of their pure bloodline, 742 00:42:14,208 --> 00:42:15,750 "We are greater than them, 743 00:42:15,833 --> 00:42:17,667 therefore we are God's chosen people 744 00:42:17,792 --> 00:42:21,333 and only we will live with God again." 745 00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:22,667 How people gain control 746 00:42:22,833 --> 00:42:25,583 is they say, "You're superior over everybody else, 747 00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:28,583 but in order to stay that way, 748 00:42:28,750 --> 00:42:30,208 you have to do these things. 749 00:42:30,375 --> 00:42:31,833 But if you don't do these things, 750 00:42:31,958 --> 00:42:33,917 then you're gonna be pushed out." 751 00:42:35,333 --> 00:42:38,375 So the pure bloodline, in my opinion, 752 00:42:38,542 --> 00:42:41,333 is strictly for control purposes 753 00:42:41,458 --> 00:42:42,875 that the Kingstons are using 754 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:43,958 to bring in power 755 00:42:44,083 --> 00:42:46,333 for the leadership and only the leadership, 756 00:42:46,833 --> 00:42:48,958 not worrying at all about the women and children 757 00:42:49,042 --> 00:42:50,500 who suffer daily 758 00:42:50,583 --> 00:42:53,208 because of this pure bloodline belief. 759 00:42:53,375 --> 00:42:55,625 And unless we, as society, 760 00:42:55,792 --> 00:42:58,458 step in to correct it, 761 00:42:58,542 --> 00:43:00,292 to protect the children, 762 00:43:00,458 --> 00:43:02,292 then it's just going to continue.