1 00:00:08,875 --> 00:00:10,000 [Mary Ann] Growing up in the Order, 2 00:00:10,167 --> 00:00:12,917 too many girls my age that were around me 3 00:00:13,042 --> 00:00:15,042 probably experienced sexual abuse 4 00:00:15,208 --> 00:00:16,583 in one way or another. 5 00:00:16,750 --> 00:00:20,958 [music] 6 00:00:21,083 --> 00:00:24,125 [Mary Ann] I think it's time for getting the story out there 7 00:00:24,250 --> 00:00:27,417 to expose the abuse and neglect 8 00:00:27,583 --> 00:00:30,708 that the Order has put on their followers 9 00:00:30,875 --> 00:00:35,083 and hopefully show the people who want to leave they can. 10 00:00:37,333 --> 00:00:40,667 I have experienced abuse on several different levels 11 00:00:40,792 --> 00:00:43,250 growing up in that church and, and that community, 12 00:00:43,375 --> 00:00:46,208 and you're made to feel that it's your fault. 13 00:00:47,375 --> 00:00:48,833 The Order's not gonna get shut down 14 00:00:49,042 --> 00:00:50,500 unless the women stand up. 15 00:00:51,917 --> 00:00:55,333 So you put the survivors of polygamy 16 00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:58,917 at the same level as survivors of a prisoner of war camp? 17 00:00:59,042 --> 00:01:00,292 Yes. 18 00:01:03,750 --> 00:01:05,000 [Matt] My name's Matt Browning. 19 00:01:05,083 --> 00:01:07,333 I'm retired law enforcement out of Arizona. 20 00:01:07,458 --> 00:01:10,167 I was on both the Joint Terrorist Task Force 21 00:01:10,375 --> 00:01:13,083 and the Fugitive Task Force with the FBI. 22 00:01:13,208 --> 00:01:15,875 But most importantly, I'm a husband and a father. 23 00:01:16,042 --> 00:01:17,500 And I was born and raised a member 24 00:01:17,583 --> 00:01:20,500 of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 25 00:01:20,667 --> 00:01:22,583 A few years ago, my wife Tawni and I 26 00:01:22,708 --> 00:01:25,000 were contacted by women who wanted help 27 00:01:25,167 --> 00:01:27,042 leaving the polygamist groups. 28 00:01:27,208 --> 00:01:29,583 Since then, we've been contacted numerous times 29 00:01:29,708 --> 00:01:32,333 by people asking for help. 30 00:01:32,500 --> 00:01:33,833 Some of these groups have 31 00:01:33,958 --> 00:01:36,500 a history of incest and child abuse 32 00:01:36,667 --> 00:01:40,667 and are thriving right here in the United States. 33 00:01:40,833 --> 00:01:44,792 People need to know about this, and that's why we do what we do. 34 00:01:53,042 --> 00:01:59,167 [music] 35 00:02:12,250 --> 00:02:14,208 [Matt] So what I found in all my investigation 36 00:02:14,375 --> 00:02:17,625 and talking to a couple of the, the women who have left, 37 00:02:17,792 --> 00:02:21,833 the abuse that they received before they left 38 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,000 while they're in the Order is just... 39 00:02:25,167 --> 00:02:27,750 unbelievable sexual and physical abuse 40 00:02:27,875 --> 00:02:29,958 and has to stop. 41 00:02:30,083 --> 00:02:33,167 [music] 42 00:02:33,375 --> 00:02:35,000 [Chris] So, the Kingstons are interesting. 43 00:02:35,208 --> 00:02:37,375 They're headquartered in Davis County. 44 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:39,667 The organization is known as the Order. 45 00:02:39,833 --> 00:02:42,375 And one of the things that's interesting about them 46 00:02:42,458 --> 00:02:45,708 is they have quite a bit of money. 47 00:02:45,833 --> 00:02:49,292 There are members of the Order 48 00:02:49,375 --> 00:02:52,542 who own a series of small businesses 49 00:02:52,708 --> 00:02:56,833 that produce quite a bit of revenue. 50 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,500 And they practice polygamy. 51 00:02:58,625 --> 00:03:01,417 They've been doing it for as long as they've been around. 52 00:03:03,542 --> 00:03:05,167 [Nate] When you talk with people within the order, 53 00:03:05,292 --> 00:03:07,000 particularly women who have left, 54 00:03:07,125 --> 00:03:09,042 you hear about a lot of sex abuse, 55 00:03:09,167 --> 00:03:11,333 and a lot of sex abuse amongst the families. 56 00:03:12,208 --> 00:03:13,417 [Female reporter] Lu Ann Kingston says 57 00:03:13,583 --> 00:03:16,333 sometimes brothers sexually abuse sisters. 58 00:03:16,542 --> 00:03:18,833 They're raised to think that it's okay 59 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,833 because Dad marries his sister, 60 00:03:21,958 --> 00:03:23,417 and so I can do this to you. 61 00:03:25,875 --> 00:03:28,333 [Matt] A woman's role in the Order is simple-- 62 00:03:28,458 --> 00:03:30,375 bring kids into this world. 63 00:03:30,542 --> 00:03:31,958 You're being raised in the church 64 00:03:32,083 --> 00:03:33,250 that, from the day one, you're being told 65 00:03:33,375 --> 00:03:34,667 you will be married. 66 00:03:34,875 --> 00:03:38,500 Groomed from four years old to be married at 16. 67 00:03:38,625 --> 00:03:40,708 Then you go at a young age and you are married 68 00:03:40,875 --> 00:03:42,292 to bring kids into the world. 69 00:03:42,417 --> 00:03:44,083 But the most disgusting thing for me 70 00:03:44,208 --> 00:03:46,167 is that the parents are the middleman 71 00:03:46,292 --> 00:03:47,917 between the prophet and the kid. 72 00:03:52,792 --> 00:03:55,875 [Paul] You will find that there's... 73 00:03:56,042 --> 00:04:00,875 a happiness that will come from pleasing those around you... 74 00:04:01,042 --> 00:04:03,458 that can come in no other way. 75 00:04:04,708 --> 00:04:09,417 And as a parent, I am disgusted, I'm appalled, I'm angry. 76 00:04:09,542 --> 00:04:11,958 I'm doing what I do because this is just wrong. 77 00:04:14,708 --> 00:04:16,375 [car starts] 78 00:04:16,542 --> 00:04:18,292 Well, here comes Tawni. Hold on. 79 00:04:21,875 --> 00:04:22,833 -Hey. -[Matt] What's up? 80 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,500 I just spoke with Lu Ann and she's available now 81 00:04:25,708 --> 00:04:27,500 if you want to go over there and talk with her. 82 00:04:27,625 --> 00:04:29,667 She said that she'd love to help us with this. 83 00:04:29,833 --> 00:04:31,833 And maybe even let her speak to these women? 84 00:04:31,958 --> 00:04:34,292 [Matt] Well, it's better her. She, she's lived it. 85 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:36,333 So maybe we can come up with some ideas and things like that. 86 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:37,667 But she's available now? 87 00:04:37,792 --> 00:04:39,167 [Tawni] She is. She's available now. 88 00:04:39,375 --> 00:04:40,958 I mean, she's great. You already know that. 89 00:04:41,083 --> 00:04:42,000 -See you in a bit. -Love you. 90 00:04:42,167 --> 00:04:43,000 -Love you. -Bye. 91 00:04:43,208 --> 00:04:44,167 Bye. 92 00:04:44,292 --> 00:04:46,917 [music] 93 00:04:47,042 --> 00:04:48,292 [Matt] I first met Lu Ann 94 00:04:48,417 --> 00:04:51,542 in probably 2016, '17, around there. 95 00:04:51,708 --> 00:04:55,208 And I met Lu Ann through helping people leave polygamy. 96 00:04:55,375 --> 00:04:58,167 When you think about a person who has helped people 97 00:04:58,333 --> 00:05:00,000 and wants to help people leave polygamy, 98 00:05:00,208 --> 00:05:02,625 it's Lu Ann Cooper. 99 00:05:02,792 --> 00:05:04,375 [Male reporter] Lu Ann was 15 when her family told her 100 00:05:04,542 --> 00:05:07,375 she had to marry a man who already had three wives. 101 00:05:07,542 --> 00:05:09,250 "I am not ready because I'm too young." 102 00:05:09,375 --> 00:05:10,667 And he said, "No, you're not, 103 00:05:10,792 --> 00:05:13,625 because my other three wives were 15 or 16." 104 00:05:13,792 --> 00:05:18,417 [music] 105 00:05:32,083 --> 00:05:37,833 [music] 106 00:05:44,875 --> 00:05:48,542 [music] 107 00:05:48,708 --> 00:05:50,167 [Matt] What's common with all the women's stories 108 00:05:50,292 --> 00:05:51,750 is that nothing has changed. 109 00:05:51,875 --> 00:05:53,792 We have Lu Ann in one generation. 110 00:05:53,917 --> 00:05:56,250 We have other people in other generations. 111 00:05:56,375 --> 00:05:58,750 And to tell their story to Lu Ann, 112 00:05:58,875 --> 00:06:00,542 who can understand them 113 00:06:00,708 --> 00:06:02,375 and who has been through all the same things 114 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:03,667 that they have been through 115 00:06:03,792 --> 00:06:05,667 is just gonna make it easier for these people 116 00:06:05,875 --> 00:06:09,000 to stand up and say, yes, this happened to me 117 00:06:09,167 --> 00:06:11,083 and it needs to stop. 118 00:06:14,292 --> 00:06:16,292 [knocking on door] 119 00:06:16,375 --> 00:06:17,500 -Hey, Matt! -Hey! 120 00:06:17,667 --> 00:06:18,792 -How's it going? -What's going on? 121 00:06:18,917 --> 00:06:20,333 -[Lu Ann] Come on in. -[Matt] Thank you. 122 00:06:21,542 --> 00:06:24,208 -Smells good. -[Lu Ann] Thanks. 123 00:06:24,333 --> 00:06:25,875 -Too good. -Wanna stay for dinner? 124 00:06:26,042 --> 00:06:27,958 [laughs] Yeah, I wish. 125 00:06:29,500 --> 00:06:31,417 Hey, so, part of what I'm doing 126 00:06:31,542 --> 00:06:34,875 is I'm hearing the stories of abuse, whether it's physical, 127 00:06:34,958 --> 00:06:38,583 mental, within the Order. 128 00:06:38,708 --> 00:06:44,458 What if I told you that there's, a, a, a woman. 129 00:06:44,583 --> 00:06:46,292 Her name is Julia. 130 00:06:46,417 --> 00:06:50,000 And she wants to talk to you, and she's left. 131 00:06:50,208 --> 00:06:52,833 -I would welcome it. -All right. 132 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,542 She is in Montana, in a town in Montana, 133 00:06:56,667 --> 00:06:59,333 -and love for you to go see her. -Sure. 134 00:06:59,417 --> 00:07:00,958 Because she wants to talk to you. 135 00:07:01,083 --> 00:07:02,583 And I would go and talk to her, 136 00:07:02,708 --> 00:07:05,042 because I'm open to talk to anybody. 137 00:07:05,208 --> 00:07:06,792 -But I'm a guy. -Yup. 138 00:07:06,917 --> 00:07:08,167 [Matt] And when you leave polygamy, 139 00:07:08,292 --> 00:07:10,625 -you're leaving abusive men. -Yes. 140 00:07:10,708 --> 00:07:12,042 And probably when you left, 141 00:07:12,208 --> 00:07:15,125 you wanted nothing to do with talking to someone like me. 142 00:07:15,250 --> 00:07:16,833 I was triggered by men in suits. 143 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:17,833 -[Matt] Okay. -Yeah. 144 00:07:17,958 --> 00:07:19,125 [Matt] So... 145 00:07:19,208 --> 00:07:20,458 Can you go and talk to her? 146 00:07:20,583 --> 00:07:22,458 -Sure, absolutely. -[Matt] Okay, beautiful. 147 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,417 The next person, 148 00:07:25,583 --> 00:07:27,417 when you talk Kingstons and women leaving, 149 00:07:27,542 --> 00:07:30,833 there's--you and Mary Ann are like the-- 150 00:07:30,958 --> 00:07:33,167 you're either the angels or the devil, 151 00:07:33,375 --> 00:07:34,833 depending on who you talk to. 152 00:07:34,958 --> 00:07:43,667 [music] 153 00:07:53,958 --> 00:07:56,583 And Daniel was convicted for beating her. 154 00:07:56,708 --> 00:07:58,000 Yeah. 155 00:07:58,125 --> 00:08:02,250 [music] 156 00:08:02,417 --> 00:08:03,250 [Matt] And she's what to you? 157 00:08:03,417 --> 00:08:04,417 [Lu Ann] She's my niece. 158 00:08:04,583 --> 00:08:07,000 She's my full sister's kid. 159 00:08:07,167 --> 00:08:09,000 And so we grew up very close. 160 00:08:09,125 --> 00:08:12,000 So I can definitely reach out and ask to talk to her, 161 00:08:12,125 --> 00:08:14,292 ask her to share her story, 162 00:08:14,458 --> 00:08:15,875 but she's never shared it before. 163 00:08:16,042 --> 00:08:19,542 Why is that, you think? 164 00:08:19,667 --> 00:08:21,917 It's too traumatic. 165 00:08:23,167 --> 00:08:28,708 [music] 166 00:08:28,875 --> 00:08:31,292 I would love if you could sit down and talk to her. 167 00:08:31,417 --> 00:08:32,667 Okay. 168 00:08:32,833 --> 00:08:33,833 [Matt] Seriously, that would be amazing. 169 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,333 The Order's not gonna get shut down 170 00:08:35,458 --> 00:08:36,333 unless the women stand up. 171 00:08:36,542 --> 00:08:37,542 That's true. 172 00:08:37,708 --> 00:08:38,917 [Matt] And guess what? 173 00:08:39,083 --> 00:08:43,250 Lu Ann Cooper and Mary Ann and Julia and many others 174 00:08:43,417 --> 00:08:45,375 can be those voices. 175 00:08:45,542 --> 00:08:46,833 Okay. 176 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,250 -[Matt] All right, thank you. -Thanks, Matt. 177 00:08:48,417 --> 00:08:49,500 And we'll talk, all right? Keep in touch. 178 00:08:49,667 --> 00:08:51,333 And when you get back, give me a call. 179 00:08:51,417 --> 00:08:52,333 -Okay. -[Matt] All right. 180 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:54,625 I will for sure. Thanks, Matt. 181 00:08:56,500 --> 00:08:59,750 [music] 182 00:08:59,875 --> 00:09:01,667 [car starts] 183 00:09:01,792 --> 00:09:08,250 [music] 184 00:09:13,750 --> 00:09:15,792 [Lu Ann] They claim that being a part of the Order 185 00:09:15,917 --> 00:09:20,125 is going to get you to the celestial degree of glory, 186 00:09:20,292 --> 00:09:21,833 or however they put it. 187 00:09:21,917 --> 00:09:24,542 Meanwhile, when you're in the Order, 188 00:09:24,708 --> 00:09:26,792 you are literally in Hell. 189 00:09:26,917 --> 00:09:30,542 [music] 190 00:09:36,042 --> 00:09:41,667 [music] 191 00:09:46,083 --> 00:09:50,083 [Lu Ann] Julia Peterson left the Order when she was 18. 192 00:09:50,208 --> 00:09:52,083 And Julia has said that 193 00:09:52,208 --> 00:09:54,958 growing up in the Order is sexual abuse. 194 00:09:56,625 --> 00:09:59,042 I agree with her. I grew up sexually abused. 195 00:09:59,208 --> 00:10:04,000 The girls that I knew growing up were being sexually abused. 196 00:10:04,125 --> 00:10:06,083 It was...horrific. 197 00:10:08,833 --> 00:10:11,292 It's important to meet these girls and hear their stories 198 00:10:11,375 --> 00:10:15,417 so that we can, one, see what they've been through, 199 00:10:15,542 --> 00:10:18,167 and two, so that we can know how to help 200 00:10:18,333 --> 00:10:19,333 people that are still in there, 201 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:22,000 but also help people that have left. 202 00:10:22,125 --> 00:10:28,667 [music] 203 00:10:34,042 --> 00:10:35,000 [knocking on door] 204 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:38,833 -[Lu Ann] Hi. -[Julia] Hi, how are ya? 205 00:10:38,958 --> 00:10:40,958 -[Lu Ann] Good, how are you? -[Julia] Good. 206 00:10:41,042 --> 00:10:43,167 It's good to see you. [giggles] 207 00:10:43,333 --> 00:10:45,542 So I left when you were two. 208 00:10:45,667 --> 00:10:47,292 -In 2000. -Yes. 209 00:10:47,417 --> 00:10:49,833 And so I don't even remember you! 210 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,667 I just remember some of the stories 211 00:10:51,792 --> 00:10:53,333 and things that, of course-- 212 00:10:53,542 --> 00:10:57,125 Oh, I'm sure there were stories. I'm sure there were stories. 213 00:10:57,208 --> 00:10:59,042 Of course, they're never flattering, but... 214 00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:02,500 That's because they're covering their own... 215 00:11:02,625 --> 00:11:04,875 -crimes. -[both laugh] 216 00:11:05,083 --> 00:11:07,750 But, you know, it's to be expected. 217 00:11:07,917 --> 00:11:09,167 That's what they do. 218 00:11:11,125 --> 00:11:12,292 [Julia] My name is Julia Peterson. 219 00:11:12,375 --> 00:11:14,250 I grew up in the Order. 220 00:11:14,333 --> 00:11:17,083 I have over 20 siblings. 221 00:11:17,208 --> 00:11:20,542 Um, 13 of them belong to my mother 222 00:11:20,708 --> 00:11:23,292 and the others belong to my dad's second wife. 223 00:11:25,917 --> 00:11:29,167 The reason I am sharing my experience and my story now 224 00:11:29,333 --> 00:11:32,708 after all this time is because I have now become a parent 225 00:11:32,833 --> 00:11:34,583 and a mother myself, 226 00:11:34,708 --> 00:11:36,667 and the kids deserve it, 227 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:38,000 just as when I was a child, 228 00:11:38,125 --> 00:11:40,458 I wish somebody would've stood up for me. 229 00:11:40,625 --> 00:11:45,500 [music] 230 00:11:45,667 --> 00:11:47,708 [Lu Ann] So growing up, I was abused 231 00:11:47,875 --> 00:11:50,583 for as long as I can remember until I was 12. 232 00:11:50,708 --> 00:11:52,167 Have you experienced that? 233 00:11:52,292 --> 00:11:56,500 Yes, I, I have experienced, um, abuse 234 00:11:56,667 --> 00:11:58,667 on several different levels growing up 235 00:11:58,875 --> 00:12:01,833 in that church and in that community. 236 00:12:01,958 --> 00:12:05,000 And you're made to feel that it's your fault. 237 00:12:05,125 --> 00:12:07,833 And when I was a little girl, um, 238 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,000 I was molested by my cousin. 239 00:12:10,167 --> 00:12:12,875 And when I went to an adult to go tell them, 240 00:12:13,042 --> 00:12:15,250 you know, hey, this is happening, you get scolded! 241 00:12:15,417 --> 00:12:16,458 They start getting mad at you. 242 00:12:16,625 --> 00:12:18,542 And I instantly felt so much shame. 243 00:12:18,708 --> 00:12:22,167 So I instantly then thought this is normal. 244 00:12:22,333 --> 00:12:23,333 [Lu Ann] Oh my goodness. 245 00:12:23,458 --> 00:12:25,458 This is normal. There's nothing wrong with this. 246 00:12:27,208 --> 00:12:29,375 Your role as a, a woman in the church 247 00:12:29,542 --> 00:12:31,833 was to serve the men. 248 00:12:34,375 --> 00:12:36,000 If you're in between the ages of 10 and 12, 249 00:12:36,208 --> 00:12:37,542 when they introduce this idea to you 250 00:12:37,708 --> 00:12:39,500 that you gotta start praying to find 251 00:12:39,708 --> 00:12:41,333 your number one choice in marriage. 252 00:12:41,542 --> 00:12:48,667 [music] 253 00:12:48,833 --> 00:12:49,792 [Julia] They will start what they call 254 00:12:49,875 --> 00:12:51,167 the maturation classes, 255 00:12:51,333 --> 00:12:52,708 where they'll start telling you for the women 256 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,208 how your body's changing and how wonderful it is 257 00:12:54,375 --> 00:12:56,083 to be able to start finding your place and your number one, 258 00:12:56,208 --> 00:12:57,917 and to be able to start getting married, 259 00:12:58,042 --> 00:12:59,875 and that you could start having children. 260 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,750 And this is all before you're in high school, um... 261 00:13:06,708 --> 00:13:09,167 So when I finally decided to get married, 262 00:13:09,292 --> 00:13:12,250 I had chosen the choice that was presented to me 263 00:13:12,375 --> 00:13:14,500 who was about six years older than me. 264 00:13:14,667 --> 00:13:17,042 So he was in his twenties and I was 16. 265 00:13:22,167 --> 00:13:30,875 [music] 266 00:13:36,708 --> 00:13:42,833 [music] 267 00:13:43,042 --> 00:13:44,667 [Julia] It was about three months in that I realized, 268 00:13:44,833 --> 00:13:45,667 I don't like you. 269 00:13:45,833 --> 00:13:47,500 I don't wanna be married to you. 270 00:13:47,708 --> 00:13:49,458 And I'd even told, you know, my mother 271 00:13:49,542 --> 00:13:53,333 and aunts and people that I don't really like him. 272 00:13:54,125 --> 00:13:55,792 Everybody just kind of gave me the runaround, 273 00:13:55,917 --> 00:13:58,125 you know, of, "Oh, do you think I liked your dad 274 00:13:58,250 --> 00:13:59,875 when I married him at first?" 275 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,208 And you learn to like the people, 276 00:14:02,333 --> 00:14:04,333 and the more you care for him and the more you do for him, 277 00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:06,042 the more you love them. 278 00:14:06,208 --> 00:14:08,167 And...I don't know if they told you these kinds of things, but-- 279 00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:09,458 Oh yeah. 280 00:14:09,625 --> 00:14:12,833 In our 12-year-old classes and our marriage prep classes, 281 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,500 we were told that if you're not happy, 282 00:14:14,667 --> 00:14:15,958 -that's your own fault. -Yup. 283 00:14:16,042 --> 00:14:17,833 And your happiness is your responsibility. 284 00:14:17,958 --> 00:14:19,208 -[Julia] Mm-hmm. -And... 285 00:14:19,417 --> 00:14:20,708 Yours and your husband's happiness. 286 00:14:20,875 --> 00:14:22,042 You better make him happy too. 287 00:14:22,167 --> 00:14:23,667 Yeah, and your husband's happiness. 288 00:14:23,792 --> 00:14:25,083 Of course, you know, he's trying to 289 00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:27,667 get you to start your family. 290 00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:29,167 And so he's changing my diet, 291 00:14:29,375 --> 00:14:31,417 and drink raw milk, and do the comfrey, do this, do that. 292 00:14:31,542 --> 00:14:34,083 I was like, I don't think that's how this works. 293 00:14:34,208 --> 00:14:35,667 And I felt like a science experience. 294 00:14:35,833 --> 00:14:37,042 And then when you didn't agree with it 295 00:14:37,208 --> 00:14:40,167 and you'd speak up about it, you'd get in trouble, 296 00:14:40,333 --> 00:14:42,292 and then you'd get scheduled in a meeting, 297 00:14:42,417 --> 00:14:43,958 whether it be with one of the wives 298 00:14:44,125 --> 00:14:47,292 or with...you know, his dad, 299 00:14:47,417 --> 00:14:50,125 which, oh my gosh, those meetings are so uncomfortable. 300 00:14:52,333 --> 00:14:54,000 Paul would tell you, you know, "Oh, here's this book." 301 00:14:54,167 --> 00:14:56,917 And it was about how to time ovulation 302 00:14:57,042 --> 00:14:58,792 to get someone pregnant. 303 00:14:58,958 --> 00:15:00,083 And even--he was like, "Oh, maybe if we can 304 00:15:00,208 --> 00:15:01,750 try to find it more pleasurable for you." 305 00:15:01,875 --> 00:15:04,875 And I felt like an object so much by him. 306 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,500 It was very uncomfortable, and Paul would tell you, 307 00:15:25,625 --> 00:15:28,667 "This is a good vibrator." It was like, what? 308 00:15:28,833 --> 00:15:31,000 So of course the husband goes out and buys this vibrator. 309 00:15:31,083 --> 00:15:32,000 And, "Here, this is for you!" 310 00:15:32,167 --> 00:15:33,375 And it's like, I don't want that. 311 00:15:33,542 --> 00:15:35,333 I don't want you to do those things to me. 312 00:15:35,458 --> 00:15:38,333 And it was like, I am a child. I'm 16 years old. 313 00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:40,625 This isn't when we're supposed to be 314 00:15:40,792 --> 00:15:41,792 doing these kinds of things. 315 00:15:41,917 --> 00:15:43,333 So I was very confused by it 316 00:15:43,417 --> 00:15:47,583 because this seemed extreme, you know, and forceful. 317 00:15:50,125 --> 00:15:52,833 Then he would start the whole shame and blame 318 00:15:52,958 --> 00:15:54,708 that there are children and souls up in Heaven 319 00:15:54,875 --> 00:15:56,083 waiting to come down, 320 00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:57,625 and you're preventing them to come down. 321 00:15:57,792 --> 00:15:59,167 And, and just guilt trip you 322 00:15:59,333 --> 00:16:03,042 and almost coerce you into sleeping with him, you know? 323 00:16:03,167 --> 00:16:07,208 And, "Lay down." You know, it was like, okay. 324 00:16:09,042 --> 00:16:11,000 And when you try to talk to people about it, 325 00:16:11,083 --> 00:16:13,500 it was, oh, yeah, everyone has their things. 326 00:16:13,667 --> 00:16:14,833 Everyone has their deals. 327 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,042 And it was just kind of brush off. 328 00:16:19,167 --> 00:16:21,958 But then it just got to a point where... 329 00:16:22,083 --> 00:16:23,458 I just started to say no. 330 00:16:23,542 --> 00:16:26,667 And I was lucky that I was in my parents' basement. 331 00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:28,750 And I told him, "If you touch me, I'm gonna scream." 332 00:16:28,875 --> 00:16:33,958 [music] 333 00:16:37,708 --> 00:16:43,667 [music] 334 00:16:43,875 --> 00:16:46,667 My husband, he really wanted to move out of my parents' house 335 00:16:46,792 --> 00:16:49,250 because I wasn't cooperating. 336 00:16:49,375 --> 00:16:50,833 And he felt a big part of that was because 337 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,458 I was still home with my parents. 338 00:16:55,833 --> 00:16:57,833 [Lu Ann] So how did you finally leave? 339 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,875 That, uh, Fourth of July, on Independence Day, 340 00:17:03,958 --> 00:17:05,250 I went to work that morning 341 00:17:05,458 --> 00:17:07,958 and my parents went to my brothers' ball games. 342 00:17:08,125 --> 00:17:10,667 And he was at his mom's. And I thought, "This is it. 343 00:17:10,792 --> 00:17:12,375 This is my chance to leave." 344 00:17:14,042 --> 00:17:15,167 Nobody was here at the house. 345 00:17:15,292 --> 00:17:16,417 Now is the time to get some things. 346 00:17:16,542 --> 00:17:18,042 And I threw all my stuff out the window, 347 00:17:18,208 --> 00:17:19,667 pulled it back in, threw it all back out. 348 00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:24,667 But it was really hard to get the courage to finally leave 349 00:17:24,792 --> 00:17:26,833 because I was terrified, you know, 350 00:17:27,042 --> 00:17:30,042 of the repercussions, and was I making... 351 00:17:30,208 --> 00:17:33,583 the right choice, and what was gonna happen after. 352 00:17:33,792 --> 00:17:36,000 But... 353 00:17:36,083 --> 00:17:39,708 it was worth... 354 00:17:39,875 --> 00:17:41,750 it was worth the risk. 355 00:17:44,042 --> 00:17:50,750 [music] 356 00:17:53,375 --> 00:17:56,000 I had gotten an apartment out in Bountiful. 357 00:17:56,167 --> 00:17:58,833 I just met this, you know, outside girl 358 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,500 that had a room to rent. 359 00:18:02,250 --> 00:18:03,667 And the very next day, 360 00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:06,417 I went into a job interview and I got a job. 361 00:18:07,333 --> 00:18:09,125 So I went right back to work. 362 00:18:09,708 --> 00:18:11,458 My parents and my ex-husband 363 00:18:11,583 --> 00:18:13,125 started blowing up all my social media and everything 364 00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:16,167 when I left, trying to get in contact with me and... 365 00:18:16,292 --> 00:18:17,500 going through my phone records 366 00:18:17,708 --> 00:18:19,250 of anybody that I could've possibly have talked to 367 00:18:19,375 --> 00:18:21,708 and showing up at their homes and, "Is she here?" 368 00:18:21,875 --> 00:18:24,208 I felt very harassed. I... 369 00:18:24,375 --> 00:18:26,458 You know, I got my divorce and I said, 370 00:18:26,583 --> 00:18:28,583 "I want to be done with you guys. I don't... 371 00:18:28,750 --> 00:18:30,417 Yeah, leave me be." 372 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:32,750 [music] 373 00:18:32,875 --> 00:18:37,500 Life outside of the Order gets better and better every year. 374 00:18:37,625 --> 00:18:39,667 I have met some extraordinary people out in the world 375 00:18:39,792 --> 00:18:43,458 and I was able to fall in love with one of them. 376 00:18:43,542 --> 00:18:46,042 And together, we can raise a family in a way 377 00:18:46,208 --> 00:18:48,167 that we are okay answering for. 378 00:18:50,042 --> 00:18:55,500 [music] 379 00:18:58,333 --> 00:18:59,625 [Lu Ann] So thank you for meeting with me 380 00:18:59,750 --> 00:19:02,000 and being willing to talk and have a voice. 381 00:19:02,208 --> 00:19:03,833 I hope that by speaking up and speaking out, 382 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,042 more people have the courage, ah, 383 00:19:06,208 --> 00:19:08,667 and don't feel so alone in that, like, we once did. 384 00:19:08,833 --> 00:19:12,250 When more people start to speak up and stand up, 385 00:19:12,458 --> 00:19:14,500 strength is in numbers, because you're not alone. 386 00:19:14,708 --> 00:19:16,667 They're not alone. We're here for them. 387 00:19:16,833 --> 00:19:18,083 They can just reach out. 388 00:19:18,292 --> 00:19:21,708 -We're here with open arms. -Mm-hmm. Exactly. 389 00:19:21,833 --> 00:19:22,833 -I wanna give you a hug. -Okay. 390 00:19:22,958 --> 00:19:25,333 I feel so connected to you now. 391 00:19:25,542 --> 00:19:28,750 [music] 392 00:19:28,875 --> 00:19:30,375 [line trilling] 393 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,125 [Matt] Lu Ann, Matt. 394 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,667 I'm, I'm going good. How are you? 395 00:19:40,375 --> 00:19:42,417 [Matt] Julia, how, how did she do? 396 00:19:50,542 --> 00:19:52,167 [Matt] So how's she dealing with it? 397 00:20:04,292 --> 00:20:05,500 I just think it's super sad 398 00:20:05,625 --> 00:20:07,583 that she even has to do all that. 399 00:20:08,875 --> 00:20:09,792 Okay. 400 00:20:10,708 --> 00:20:12,375 [Matt] Oh, for sure. We'll talk soon. 401 00:20:13,792 --> 00:20:14,917 [Matt] All right, bye bye. 402 00:20:16,083 --> 00:20:20,583 [music] 403 00:20:20,708 --> 00:20:22,417 [Matt] With all the different abuses 404 00:20:22,542 --> 00:20:25,333 and things that happen within these communities, 405 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:27,667 I think the best thing to do is shed light on it 406 00:20:27,875 --> 00:20:30,042 because at least people know. 407 00:20:30,167 --> 00:20:31,542 But that's not all we can do. 408 00:20:31,708 --> 00:20:35,167 I think what we also need to do is provide a way to help 409 00:20:35,333 --> 00:20:39,583 these victims and survivors of polygamy survive. 410 00:20:40,583 --> 00:20:45,833 [music] 411 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,500 [Matt] You know, talking to survivors of the abuse 412 00:20:48,583 --> 00:20:50,333 and the traumas that happen 413 00:20:50,417 --> 00:20:53,875 within these polygamist societies, 414 00:20:54,042 --> 00:20:57,417 um, I thought it was good that we can actually talk to 415 00:20:57,542 --> 00:20:59,208 a professional, an expert in the area, 416 00:20:59,292 --> 00:21:01,500 that helps these survivors. 417 00:21:02,375 --> 00:21:04,500 I have yet to meet any psychologist 418 00:21:04,667 --> 00:21:09,333 who specializes in a field like Dr. Beall does. 419 00:21:10,708 --> 00:21:13,500 And really looking forward to talking to him about it. 420 00:21:19,042 --> 00:21:21,333 [music] 421 00:21:21,542 --> 00:21:22,667 [Matt] Dr. Beall, how are you? 422 00:21:22,792 --> 00:21:24,375 [Dr. Beall] Good. 423 00:21:24,542 --> 00:21:26,208 -[Matt] I'm Matt Browning. -[Dr. Beall] Matt. Come on in. 424 00:21:26,375 --> 00:21:27,708 So this is your place? 425 00:21:27,875 --> 00:21:30,333 Well, just a little part of it over here. 426 00:21:30,458 --> 00:21:33,083 Nice. How long you've been doing this? 427 00:21:33,208 --> 00:21:34,500 -Trauma work? -Trauma work. 428 00:21:34,625 --> 00:21:36,875 -Thirty-five years. -Wow. 429 00:21:37,042 --> 00:21:38,500 And how did you get involved with 430 00:21:38,625 --> 00:21:41,333 the religious side of things? 431 00:21:41,458 --> 00:21:46,125 Well, I worked with one victim, and then another. 432 00:21:46,208 --> 00:21:47,458 And I think somehow, the word got out 433 00:21:47,667 --> 00:21:50,875 that this guy works with us. 434 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,250 And I started seeing more, and it just grew over the years. 435 00:21:54,375 --> 00:21:55,833 Did you see a lot of Kingstons? 436 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,667 Do you talk to Kingstons at all? 437 00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:59,917 Just different polygamist groups. 438 00:22:01,292 --> 00:22:03,000 My name is Dr. Larry Beall. 439 00:22:03,083 --> 00:22:04,500 I'm a clinical psychologist 440 00:22:04,667 --> 00:22:08,167 who has worked in the field of trauma for 35 years. 441 00:22:08,375 --> 00:22:11,833 In 2005, I wrote a paper on 442 00:22:12,042 --> 00:22:16,333 the effects of modern-day polygamy on women and children. 443 00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:19,708 And that led to me doing a series of court cases. 444 00:22:21,292 --> 00:22:23,167 From the lives of those I've worked with, 445 00:22:23,375 --> 00:22:29,000 uh, they were, uh, married young. 446 00:22:29,167 --> 00:22:32,042 Some of them 12, 14, 16. 447 00:22:32,167 --> 00:22:36,292 And, uh, the obstacles they had to overcome to escape it 448 00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:38,833 were tremendous. 449 00:22:38,875 --> 00:22:41,958 [music] 450 00:22:42,083 --> 00:22:47,500 In Utah, you can marry with parental consent at 16. 451 00:22:47,667 --> 00:22:52,500 It's illegal to marry at 13, 14, and 15. 452 00:22:52,583 --> 00:22:56,250 In Utah, it's also illegal to marry an uncle, 453 00:22:56,375 --> 00:22:59,958 a stepparent, a brother, a half brother, 454 00:23:00,083 --> 00:23:02,750 or anything that creates incest. 455 00:23:06,708 --> 00:23:09,792 What I was observing resembled, um, 456 00:23:09,875 --> 00:23:15,792 those who had been controlled in a very restricted environment 457 00:23:15,875 --> 00:23:21,625 and suffered abuses without any ability to escape or retaliate 458 00:23:21,792 --> 00:23:24,375 or do anything to defend themselves. 459 00:23:24,542 --> 00:23:28,000 The result was post-traumatic stress disorder. 460 00:23:28,208 --> 00:23:32,458 And so I became concerned that this was going on 461 00:23:32,542 --> 00:23:34,042 within the state 462 00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:36,000 without anything being done about it. 463 00:23:46,375 --> 00:23:48,750 [Matt] You mention that you're dealing with young ladies-- 464 00:23:48,875 --> 00:23:50,208 I mean, I'll call them kids-- 465 00:23:50,375 --> 00:23:51,875 married at 12 years old. 466 00:23:52,042 --> 00:23:57,667 What does that psychologically do to a person at that age? 467 00:23:57,792 --> 00:24:02,500 Well, I'm working with women in their thirties and forties 468 00:24:02,625 --> 00:24:04,667 who were able to escape with their children. 469 00:24:04,792 --> 00:24:06,708 But when they were younger, you know, 470 00:24:06,875 --> 00:24:09,250 each individual has their own identity, 471 00:24:09,375 --> 00:24:13,083 and these polygamist groups did not give any recognition 472 00:24:13,292 --> 00:24:15,833 or validity to the person. 473 00:24:15,958 --> 00:24:20,417 It was about them as an instrument for their purposes. 474 00:24:21,333 --> 00:24:22,250 Now, would that be an instrument 475 00:24:22,375 --> 00:24:23,458 for the leader's purpose or for-- 476 00:24:23,625 --> 00:24:25,167 -Leader's. -Really? 477 00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:27,417 Not the organization. The leader's. 478 00:24:27,583 --> 00:24:29,333 So basically the kids are a pawn for 479 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:31,042 whoever's leading the organization at the time. 480 00:24:31,167 --> 00:24:32,167 Yes, absolutely. 481 00:24:32,292 --> 00:24:36,000 How did they instill that, that, um... 482 00:24:36,167 --> 00:24:37,250 that mentality in them? 483 00:24:37,375 --> 00:24:39,125 Is it through fear? Is it through abuse? 484 00:24:39,292 --> 00:24:40,833 Is it... How do they do that? 485 00:24:41,042 --> 00:24:42,167 A good question. 486 00:24:42,333 --> 00:24:45,875 Um, so the leader works through his mid-management people, 487 00:24:46,042 --> 00:24:48,542 if I can call them that, which would be the fathers 488 00:24:48,708 --> 00:24:50,708 of these children. 489 00:24:50,875 --> 00:24:54,667 And there's repetitious teaching, 490 00:24:54,792 --> 00:24:56,500 which could be considered brainwashing 491 00:24:56,708 --> 00:24:59,375 because of its nature. 492 00:24:59,542 --> 00:25:03,500 And then there would be the conditioning, 493 00:25:03,542 --> 00:25:07,250 which is--well, if you follow these teachings, 494 00:25:07,375 --> 00:25:09,000 you'll get this result-- 495 00:25:09,125 --> 00:25:13,125 good if you follow, bad if you don't. 496 00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:16,458 So by the time they get married, 497 00:25:16,583 --> 00:25:19,667 their path is very, very clear. 498 00:25:19,833 --> 00:25:21,500 And they don't wanna deviate from it 499 00:25:21,708 --> 00:25:24,833 for the reasons I just gave, the conditioning. 500 00:25:24,917 --> 00:25:27,750 So there's fear-- fear of consequences. 501 00:25:27,875 --> 00:25:29,708 There's fear of disapproval. 502 00:25:29,875 --> 00:25:32,125 It's very clear if you don't follow 503 00:25:32,292 --> 00:25:38,167 the dictates of the leader, um, you're outcast. 504 00:25:39,458 --> 00:25:41,208 [Matt] These religious polygamist groups, 505 00:25:41,375 --> 00:25:44,417 they're creating an atmosphere for women and children 506 00:25:44,583 --> 00:25:47,750 to be abused at all levels and at all ages. 507 00:25:47,875 --> 00:25:49,167 Yes. 508 00:25:51,875 --> 00:25:54,292 I've worked with prisoner of war camps. 509 00:25:54,417 --> 00:25:57,708 I put them up there with survivors of those experiences. 510 00:25:57,875 --> 00:26:01,333 So you put the survivors of polygamy 511 00:26:01,458 --> 00:26:05,042 at the same level as survivors of a prisoner of war camp? 512 00:26:05,208 --> 00:26:06,167 Yes. 513 00:26:06,375 --> 00:26:07,792 Explain to me how you do that. 514 00:26:07,875 --> 00:26:09,833 Control. 515 00:26:09,958 --> 00:26:12,958 The use of pain to get results. 516 00:26:13,083 --> 00:26:15,583 Information control. 517 00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:18,083 Creating conditions where the brain becomes pliable, 518 00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:20,375 like sleeplessness or whatever. 519 00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:21,333 Wow. 520 00:26:21,542 --> 00:26:23,875 Yeah, it's very similar. 521 00:26:24,042 --> 00:26:25,208 Wow. 522 00:26:25,333 --> 00:26:29,167 And my aim ultimately is to decondition their minds 523 00:26:29,375 --> 00:26:33,833 from things that are not true or helpful to them, beneficial, 524 00:26:33,958 --> 00:26:38,167 and then teach them to follow this, their inner voice, 525 00:26:38,375 --> 00:26:42,125 so they become free. 526 00:26:42,292 --> 00:26:44,708 I'm extremely humbled to be here and to talk to you 527 00:26:44,875 --> 00:26:47,500 because I've learned a lot. 528 00:26:47,625 --> 00:26:48,625 -Thank you. -Yeah. 529 00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:50,500 [Dr. Beall] Good to meet you, Matt. 530 00:26:50,583 --> 00:26:52,167 You're all right. 531 00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:58,208 [music] 532 00:27:08,167 --> 00:27:09,917 We grew up together. 533 00:27:10,042 --> 00:27:14,000 And she left after Daniel beat her 534 00:27:14,125 --> 00:27:17,208 for running away from her husband, David. 535 00:27:17,375 --> 00:27:19,792 Two of the brothers that help run the Davis County Co-Op-- 536 00:27:19,958 --> 00:27:21,750 that's the original name of the group-- 537 00:27:21,875 --> 00:27:24,500 now face separate felony charges. 538 00:27:24,667 --> 00:27:26,708 John Daniel for beating unconscious 539 00:27:26,875 --> 00:27:28,125 his 16-year-old daughter 540 00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:30,292 who fled a polygamist marriage to her uncle 541 00:27:30,417 --> 00:27:33,167 and David Kingston, the uncle charged with incest 542 00:27:33,333 --> 00:27:35,292 and unlawful sexual contact. 543 00:27:37,083 --> 00:27:40,667 [Lu Ann] She is finally willing to share her story. 544 00:27:40,792 --> 00:27:44,042 It's important that we speak out 545 00:27:44,208 --> 00:27:47,042 and this is not okay. 546 00:27:47,167 --> 00:27:49,708 Like, the abusers need to know what they're doing isn't okay, 547 00:27:49,875 --> 00:27:52,625 and the people being abused need to know that 548 00:27:52,792 --> 00:27:55,833 what's happening to them isn't okay. 549 00:27:56,042 --> 00:28:01,417 And we need to shine a light on what's happening and help them. 550 00:28:02,542 --> 00:28:03,917 Help them all. 551 00:28:09,083 --> 00:28:12,750 [music] 552 00:28:12,875 --> 00:28:16,333 This is gonna be vulnerable for both of us, 553 00:28:16,542 --> 00:28:19,458 but so good to share with the world. 554 00:28:19,583 --> 00:28:28,750 [music] 555 00:28:33,042 --> 00:28:36,042 [music] 556 00:28:36,167 --> 00:28:37,875 [knocking on door] 557 00:28:38,042 --> 00:28:39,333 [Lu Ann] Hi, how are ya? 558 00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:42,167 [Mary Ann] Good. How are you? 559 00:28:42,292 --> 00:28:43,958 [Lu Ann] I'm good. 560 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:46,958 So... 561 00:28:48,375 --> 00:28:50,667 We get to talk about... 562 00:28:54,208 --> 00:28:55,958 so many things. 563 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,833 [music] 564 00:29:02,958 --> 00:29:05,208 And I want to just tell you how proud I am... 565 00:29:09,667 --> 00:29:11,375 that you're willing to talk about it. 566 00:29:14,125 --> 00:29:16,250 It's time, time to do something. 567 00:29:18,458 --> 00:29:20,250 My name is Mary Ann Kingston. 568 00:29:20,417 --> 00:29:23,167 And I was a member of the Order. 569 00:29:23,250 --> 00:29:29,292 My parents were Susie Nelson and John Daniel Kingston. 570 00:29:30,292 --> 00:29:32,250 My parents are half siblings--different moms, 571 00:29:32,375 --> 00:29:33,417 same dad. 572 00:29:39,875 --> 00:29:42,500 Your mom is my sister, my full sister. 573 00:29:42,667 --> 00:29:44,667 Thus, I'm your aunt. 574 00:29:44,792 --> 00:29:49,042 But she was 23 years older than me. 575 00:29:49,208 --> 00:29:53,458 What was it like growing up in the Order for you? 576 00:29:53,625 --> 00:29:55,333 -Chaos. -[Lu Ann] Yeah. 577 00:29:55,458 --> 00:29:57,292 Um... 578 00:29:57,458 --> 00:29:58,333 A lot of secrets. 579 00:29:58,458 --> 00:30:00,750 A lot of secrets, a lot of lies. 580 00:30:04,667 --> 00:30:07,208 Growing up in the Order, 581 00:30:07,333 --> 00:30:09,833 I was told what to do. 582 00:30:09,958 --> 00:30:12,333 I was directed, and I didn't make decisions. 583 00:30:12,458 --> 00:30:15,667 I wasn't...allowed to. 584 00:30:15,833 --> 00:30:18,667 I had to ask permission for everything. 585 00:30:18,833 --> 00:30:21,833 I started to feel like I didn't belong there 586 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,333 in, I would say, junior high, 587 00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:28,042 seventh, eighth grade. 588 00:30:28,208 --> 00:30:32,750 I was being groomed for marriage. 589 00:30:32,875 --> 00:30:36,458 I didn't feel like I... 590 00:30:36,542 --> 00:30:39,000 wanted to serve a husband. 591 00:30:39,125 --> 00:30:40,458 I didn't feel good about it. 592 00:30:40,583 --> 00:30:42,667 It didn't sit right with me. 593 00:30:42,792 --> 00:30:45,333 It was scary as we got older, 594 00:30:45,458 --> 00:30:49,875 seeing our friends being groomed to get married 595 00:30:50,042 --> 00:30:52,000 and how excited they seemed to be 596 00:30:52,167 --> 00:30:55,917 and how I was the opposite of excited. 597 00:30:56,042 --> 00:30:57,708 I just felt like I was different 598 00:30:57,875 --> 00:31:00,917 and I needed to not get married so young. 599 00:31:01,042 --> 00:31:02,375 I felt like that too. 600 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:05,667 At 15, I felt like I was way too young to get married, 601 00:31:05,875 --> 00:31:08,667 but I knew there was no way out of it. 602 00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:09,833 And so... 603 00:31:09,958 --> 00:31:11,333 I pushed it off as long as I could. 604 00:31:11,542 --> 00:31:12,958 Me too. 605 00:31:14,208 --> 00:31:16,167 [Mary Ann] When I was 13, 606 00:31:16,375 --> 00:31:18,833 Daniel started talking to me about 607 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,000 who did I think I was gonna marry 608 00:31:21,167 --> 00:31:24,417 and to pray about who I was supposed to marry. 609 00:31:24,542 --> 00:31:29,375 And it felt like he was planting seeds, 610 00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:32,958 meaning he...mentioned, "Oh, my brother David 611 00:31:33,083 --> 00:31:37,167 would like to...meet with you." 612 00:31:37,333 --> 00:31:40,375 Or, "What do you think about David?" 613 00:31:40,542 --> 00:31:42,125 And I just... 614 00:31:43,125 --> 00:31:44,958 He was older. I didn't know him. 615 00:31:46,125 --> 00:31:47,667 You know, Daniel would say, "Oh, let's have a meeting, 616 00:31:47,833 --> 00:31:48,708 let's have a meeting." 617 00:31:48,833 --> 00:31:50,333 And I'd put it off and avoid it. 618 00:31:50,417 --> 00:31:55,667 And then...I'm getting older and older, 16 now, 619 00:31:55,708 --> 00:31:59,708 and...middle October, Monday night, 620 00:31:59,875 --> 00:32:01,208 I got a call from Daniel and he said, 621 00:32:01,375 --> 00:32:04,333 "You're gonna get married on Wednesday." 622 00:32:04,375 --> 00:32:07,333 So David had 14 other wives already. 623 00:32:07,417 --> 00:32:09,667 I was his 15th. 624 00:32:09,875 --> 00:32:13,167 But even at, at the wedding... 625 00:32:13,292 --> 00:32:15,833 I, I don't know if you remember this, 626 00:32:15,958 --> 00:32:18,000 but it was supposed to start at a certain time 627 00:32:18,125 --> 00:32:19,958 and I locked myself in the bathroom. 628 00:32:20,042 --> 00:32:21,333 I do remember. 629 00:32:21,542 --> 00:32:22,833 [Mary Ann] And Daniel's banging on the door, 630 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,417 "You gotta come out! It's time to come out!" 631 00:32:24,542 --> 00:32:25,625 [Lu Ann] I do remember. 632 00:32:25,792 --> 00:32:28,083 And he went in there alone with you 633 00:32:28,292 --> 00:32:30,625 and basically pushed you out the door. 634 00:32:30,708 --> 00:32:32,000 Yup. 635 00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:37,583 When we got married, I was 16 and he was 33. 636 00:32:37,708 --> 00:32:40,083 He would have sex with me. 637 00:32:40,250 --> 00:32:45,042 And no explanation of...this is what to expect. 638 00:32:46,292 --> 00:32:50,917 No...is this okay, is that okay. It just happened. 639 00:32:52,208 --> 00:32:53,583 I didn't know what to do. 640 00:32:56,792 --> 00:32:59,917 [Lu Ann] When you first tried to run away, what happened? 641 00:33:00,042 --> 00:33:01,042 It's not that I tried to run away. 642 00:33:01,208 --> 00:33:02,792 It's that I went out with friends 643 00:33:02,958 --> 00:33:05,250 and tried not to come home until... 644 00:33:05,417 --> 00:33:06,708 That's different. [laughs] 645 00:33:06,833 --> 00:33:09,667 You know, until... 646 00:33:09,792 --> 00:33:11,583 you have nowhere else to go. 647 00:33:13,208 --> 00:33:16,667 David had one of his other wives staying with me, 648 00:33:16,792 --> 00:33:19,208 kind of babysitting me, 649 00:33:19,375 --> 00:33:21,500 making sure that I wouldn't leave at night. 650 00:33:21,625 --> 00:33:24,500 She would stay with me, 651 00:33:24,583 --> 00:33:26,458 in my bed. 652 00:33:27,708 --> 00:33:29,958 It was one of the nights that David was staying with her 653 00:33:30,042 --> 00:33:32,000 at her house 654 00:33:32,167 --> 00:33:37,750 that I finally found a window where I could leave. 655 00:33:37,875 --> 00:33:40,833 But I didn't know where I was gonna go. 656 00:33:41,042 --> 00:33:43,333 I wanna say I was gone all night. 657 00:33:43,458 --> 00:33:47,250 Like, that was the first time I was gone all night. 658 00:33:47,417 --> 00:33:51,083 And I came back. 659 00:33:51,208 --> 00:33:53,000 And people were upset with me. 660 00:33:53,083 --> 00:33:55,667 So I, I remember taking a bus. 661 00:33:55,833 --> 00:33:58,000 I was just gonna go to see these-- 662 00:33:59,875 --> 00:34:04,000 My mom, she apparently was in trouble because I was missing. 663 00:34:08,208 --> 00:34:10,292 And she called Daniel. 664 00:34:12,042 --> 00:34:14,833 And I think I remember--were you there? 665 00:34:14,958 --> 00:34:16,167 Yeah. 666 00:34:16,250 --> 00:34:17,625 [Mary Ann] Yeah, you would've been with us. 667 00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:18,833 So I was at Susie's house. 668 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,208 When we got there, you were in the bathroom. 669 00:34:21,375 --> 00:34:24,083 And, um, Susie told you Daniel was coming, 670 00:34:24,167 --> 00:34:25,792 and you said, "I don't want him to come. 671 00:34:25,917 --> 00:34:27,042 I don't want to see him." 672 00:34:27,167 --> 00:34:29,500 And he got there and he's like, "Where is she?" 673 00:34:29,667 --> 00:34:31,083 And Susie's like, "She's in the bathroom." 674 00:34:31,208 --> 00:34:34,000 And so he went into the bathroom and, um, 675 00:34:34,125 --> 00:34:35,500 was in there for a few minutes. 676 00:34:35,667 --> 00:34:38,875 And then he had ahold of the back of your shirt 677 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,208 and pushed you out the front door. 678 00:34:40,375 --> 00:34:41,500 Yeah, I remember that now. 679 00:34:41,542 --> 00:34:42,958 [Lu Ann] And disappeared into the night. 680 00:34:43,083 --> 00:34:44,292 And all of a sudden, we hear this scream. 681 00:34:44,458 --> 00:34:45,667 And so I ran to the window. 682 00:34:45,792 --> 00:34:48,500 I said, "Did you guys hear that?" 683 00:34:48,583 --> 00:34:50,542 Everybody was like, "I didn't hear anything." 684 00:34:52,542 --> 00:34:55,333 I just remember thinking, "Oh my gosh, this is a nightmare!" 685 00:34:57,958 --> 00:35:03,125 And I...I mean, I hate to go down this lane and ask you 686 00:35:03,250 --> 00:35:05,167 to share what happened that night 687 00:35:05,292 --> 00:35:07,875 when he took you Washakie, but... 688 00:35:08,042 --> 00:35:11,500 as we share our abuses, 689 00:35:11,708 --> 00:35:13,500 we are letting other people in the Order know 690 00:35:13,667 --> 00:35:15,167 that they're not alone, 691 00:35:15,375 --> 00:35:17,083 that they're not the only ones, 692 00:35:17,208 --> 00:35:20,417 that they can overcome it like you did. 693 00:35:20,542 --> 00:35:25,917 So if you're willing to share how the rest of that night went, 694 00:35:26,042 --> 00:35:27,625 as much as you can. 695 00:35:29,708 --> 00:35:33,250 I don't remember knowing where I was going. 696 00:35:33,375 --> 00:35:35,500 I didn't know where he was gonna take me. 697 00:35:35,667 --> 00:35:38,917 I really didn't know... 698 00:35:39,042 --> 00:35:41,583 um, we were gonna go to Washakie. 699 00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:46,667 [music] 700 00:35:46,792 --> 00:35:48,167 My father, Daniel, 701 00:35:48,333 --> 00:35:51,167 hit me in the front of his truck next to him, 702 00:35:51,333 --> 00:35:55,000 in the front seat, hanging on to me, 703 00:35:55,125 --> 00:35:57,833 and yelling at me. 704 00:35:57,958 --> 00:36:00,833 And we just kept going north and north and north. 705 00:36:00,958 --> 00:36:03,417 So we get there, and I remember him taking off his belt, 706 00:36:03,542 --> 00:36:05,833 and he said, "Take off your coat." 707 00:36:05,958 --> 00:36:08,000 And he said, 708 00:36:08,125 --> 00:36:13,750 "You'll get one lashing for every... 709 00:36:13,875 --> 00:36:15,542 time you made a mistake." 710 00:36:15,708 --> 00:36:19,333 I remember it was, like, 27 or something, 28 times. 711 00:36:19,417 --> 00:36:22,542 [music] 712 00:36:28,417 --> 00:36:29,833 I remember getting to the end. 713 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,333 And then I wake up on the couch in the house, at the ranch. 714 00:36:35,458 --> 00:36:37,375 And nobody was there. Nobody's around. 715 00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:39,958 And it's dark. It's, you know-- 716 00:36:40,042 --> 00:36:41,667 I don't know what time. 717 00:36:44,792 --> 00:36:46,667 [Lu Ann] So when you woke up and it was still dark outside, 718 00:36:46,792 --> 00:36:50,000 did you stay on the couch or did you... 719 00:36:50,167 --> 00:36:51,333 [Mary Ann] I stayed right there. 720 00:36:51,542 --> 00:36:56,500 I didn't know what I was instructed to do. 721 00:36:56,583 --> 00:36:58,292 Everything hurt. 722 00:36:58,375 --> 00:37:00,958 I remember that just pain everywhere. 723 00:37:01,125 --> 00:37:04,500 [music] 724 00:37:04,667 --> 00:37:06,750 [Mary Ann] The next day, everybody was leaving 725 00:37:06,917 --> 00:37:09,292 to go to church. 726 00:37:09,375 --> 00:37:10,833 And after everybody left, 727 00:37:10,958 --> 00:37:14,875 I just got up and got my coat on, 728 00:37:15,042 --> 00:37:18,458 and I started walking. 729 00:37:18,625 --> 00:37:19,917 I knew the gas station was 730 00:37:20,042 --> 00:37:23,417 at the end of the, the road. 731 00:37:23,542 --> 00:37:24,708 I don't know how far that was, 732 00:37:24,833 --> 00:37:25,833 but I walked and walked. 733 00:37:25,958 --> 00:37:30,250 And each car that came up, I hid down in the-- 734 00:37:30,417 --> 00:37:32,375 on the side of the road, in the bushes, 735 00:37:32,542 --> 00:37:34,333 'cause I didn't know who it would be. 736 00:37:34,458 --> 00:37:38,958 And I didn't want to get caught walking away or leaving. 737 00:37:39,042 --> 00:37:41,208 Yeah. 738 00:37:44,833 --> 00:37:46,292 I decided that once I get to the gas station, 739 00:37:46,458 --> 00:37:47,875 I'm gonna call the cops. 740 00:37:49,708 --> 00:37:52,500 When the cop got to the gas station, 741 00:37:52,625 --> 00:37:57,000 I was still worried that he was gonna turn back to the farm. 742 00:37:57,792 --> 00:38:00,125 But I do remember the cop saying, 743 00:38:00,292 --> 00:38:01,583 "It's obvious something's going on here, 744 00:38:01,708 --> 00:38:03,833 "I mean, with the bruises on your face. 745 00:38:03,958 --> 00:38:05,167 You need some help." 746 00:38:05,875 --> 00:38:10,667 So the cop took me to, um, the hospital. 747 00:38:13,333 --> 00:38:15,458 So I was in the ER to get checked out. 748 00:38:15,583 --> 00:38:19,333 And, you know, I tell the story to them, 749 00:38:19,458 --> 00:38:21,208 'cause I'm getting braver and braver. 750 00:38:21,375 --> 00:38:23,250 And, uh, I told them about 751 00:38:23,375 --> 00:38:25,208 Daniel whipping me with his belt. 752 00:38:25,375 --> 00:38:27,542 They all seemed just horrified. 753 00:38:27,667 --> 00:38:32,708 "How could anybody do this to their child?" 754 00:38:32,875 --> 00:38:36,167 And then they sent me to a women's shelter 755 00:38:36,292 --> 00:38:39,458 until we could... 756 00:38:39,583 --> 00:38:41,083 figure out what to do with me. 757 00:38:41,208 --> 00:38:47,375 [music] 758 00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:52,083 [Lu Ann] So at what point did you realize, 759 00:38:52,292 --> 00:38:55,042 oh, I'm leaving the Order? 760 00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:57,792 Well, once I started telling all the secrets, 761 00:38:57,917 --> 00:39:02,167 which I had to tell or... 762 00:39:02,333 --> 00:39:04,333 -I would get sent back. -Yeah. 763 00:39:04,458 --> 00:39:08,167 You know, it's like I wouldn't qualify for foster care. 764 00:39:08,333 --> 00:39:13,500 But it was also, I, I didn't realize 765 00:39:13,625 --> 00:39:17,292 that I was actually leaving. 766 00:39:17,417 --> 00:39:19,208 I just knew I couldn't go back. 767 00:39:19,375 --> 00:39:29,333 [music] 768 00:40:12,375 --> 00:40:15,125 [Lu Ann] So what message do you wanna give, 769 00:40:15,292 --> 00:40:16,667 knowing that you're their pioneer, 770 00:40:16,833 --> 00:40:18,917 that you opened the door to the possibility 771 00:40:19,042 --> 00:40:21,167 of having a better life? 772 00:40:21,375 --> 00:40:22,792 What message do you want to give the people 773 00:40:22,958 --> 00:40:25,083 that are still in there? 774 00:40:25,208 --> 00:40:27,500 To not give up and try, 775 00:40:27,625 --> 00:40:31,875 and don't wait for somebody to come by and save you. 776 00:40:32,042 --> 00:40:37,833 To decide you have to make that decision wholeheartedly. 777 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,667 Like, this is what I'm going to do, 778 00:40:40,833 --> 00:40:43,333 -and follow through. -Yeah. 779 00:40:43,458 --> 00:40:46,167 You do not have to live this way. 780 00:40:47,333 --> 00:40:49,542 [sighs] Okay, well, I need to hug you. 781 00:40:50,875 --> 00:40:52,542 Thank you so much. 782 00:40:52,708 --> 00:40:59,542 [music] 783 00:41:04,208 --> 00:41:12,125 [music] 784 00:41:12,208 --> 00:41:14,667 [Matt] I have three women that we've talked to. 785 00:41:14,875 --> 00:41:17,000 We have Lu Ann, Mary Ann, and Julia. 786 00:41:17,125 --> 00:41:20,083 Each has their own horrific story to tell. 787 00:41:20,208 --> 00:41:21,833 Horrific! 788 00:41:21,958 --> 00:41:24,042 Bad enough that arrests were made. 789 00:41:24,167 --> 00:41:25,792 Bad enough that people fled. 790 00:41:25,958 --> 00:41:28,208 Bad enough that they would leave their families. 791 00:41:29,542 --> 00:41:31,250 You know the Kingstons better than I do, 792 00:41:31,375 --> 00:41:32,792 better than a lot of people. 793 00:41:32,917 --> 00:41:35,167 You tell me, Tawni, how many more times is this happening 794 00:41:35,375 --> 00:41:36,625 than just these three? 795 00:41:36,750 --> 00:41:39,542 Oh, I mean, documented and undocumented, 796 00:41:39,625 --> 00:41:41,750 these aren't isolated instances. 797 00:41:41,875 --> 00:41:44,500 It's systemic in every way. 798 00:41:44,583 --> 00:41:46,500 I mean, this is generational. 799 00:41:46,667 --> 00:41:48,042 I think that them telling their stories 800 00:41:48,167 --> 00:41:52,583 and getting out there on this kind of, um, platform is good. 801 00:41:52,708 --> 00:41:56,000 But now the platform that we're giving them 802 00:41:56,125 --> 00:41:58,500 I'm hoping is going to start changing the way 803 00:41:58,667 --> 00:42:00,917 that people look at these secretive societies 804 00:42:01,083 --> 00:42:02,667 and these polygamist organizations. 805 00:42:02,792 --> 00:42:04,792 And that's why we're doing this. 806 00:42:04,917 --> 00:42:08,750 [music]