1 00:00:00,919 --> 00:00:02,518 [TV static drones] 2 00:00:02,587 --> 00:00:05,124 [bright tone] 3 00:00:20,004 --> 00:00:22,938 [soft twangy music] 4 00:00:23,007 --> 00:00:29,747 ♪ ♪ 5 00:00:31,315 --> 00:00:33,882 - In 2003, Texas was about to execute 6 00:00:33,951 --> 00:00:37,253 its 300th inmate, Delma Banks. 7 00:00:37,321 --> 00:00:40,126 - Texas is about to kill an innocent man. 8 00:00:42,626 --> 00:00:44,592 - Many of us who'd followed his case 9 00:00:44,661 --> 00:00:46,295 thought he was very likely innocent. 10 00:00:46,364 --> 00:00:48,363 - Now, at this point, only the governor 11 00:00:48,432 --> 00:00:50,166 or the United States Supreme Court 12 00:00:50,234 --> 00:00:51,533 can stop that from happening 13 00:00:51,601 --> 00:00:54,069 and stop Banks from becoming the 300th inmate 14 00:00:54,138 --> 00:00:57,506 to be executed within the state of Texas. 15 00:00:57,575 --> 00:01:00,275 - What I saw as an unfolding tragedy 16 00:01:00,344 --> 00:01:02,677 created a kind of panic in me. 17 00:01:02,746 --> 00:01:04,914 This was all happening just down the hill 18 00:01:04,982 --> 00:01:06,548 from where I went to high school, 19 00:01:06,617 --> 00:01:08,884 and I felt compelled to try to do something, 20 00:01:08,953 --> 00:01:11,286 however likely futile. 21 00:01:11,355 --> 00:01:13,088 I ended up just going there 22 00:01:13,157 --> 00:01:15,327 and trying to capture the moment on film. 23 00:01:16,660 --> 00:01:20,228 In the one spot designated for media and protesters, 24 00:01:20,297 --> 00:01:22,398 I found myself talking to some people 25 00:01:22,466 --> 00:01:24,801 and slowly realized it was his family. 26 00:01:24,869 --> 00:01:26,301 - As much as I love him, 27 00:01:26,370 --> 00:01:29,537 if I knew in my heart that he had done this, 28 00:01:29,606 --> 00:01:31,439 you know what I would have told him? 29 00:01:31,508 --> 00:01:33,209 I would've said, "Delma, I'm against the death penalty. 30 00:01:33,277 --> 00:01:34,109 "But, you know, you're here. 31 00:01:34,178 --> 00:01:35,906 "You're just gonna have to pay the price 32 00:01:35,975 --> 00:01:37,179 'cause you took somebody else's life." 33 00:01:37,247 --> 00:01:38,547 But that's not the case. 34 00:01:38,616 --> 00:01:42,684 I'm saying what I'm saying because I know he's innocent. 35 00:01:42,752 --> 00:01:45,454 - There were a lot of problems with this case. 36 00:01:45,522 --> 00:01:49,826 No evidence really, no motive, guy with a clean record... 37 00:01:49,894 --> 00:01:51,360 - Banks was tried and convicted 38 00:01:51,428 --> 00:01:52,860 by an all-white jury. 39 00:01:52,929 --> 00:01:55,297 - The jailhouse informant who testified that Delma 40 00:01:55,366 --> 00:01:57,466 had privately confessed to the crime-- 41 00:01:57,534 --> 00:02:01,203 all the trappings of a wrongful conviction. 42 00:02:01,271 --> 00:02:03,172 I'd always thought that if it were ever proven 43 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,273 that we'd executed an innocent person, 44 00:02:05,342 --> 00:02:07,676 the public outcry would be so great 45 00:02:07,744 --> 00:02:09,712 that it would probably mean the end of the death penalty 46 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:11,250 in our country. 47 00:02:12,782 --> 00:02:15,850 When I lived here from 1970 to 1981, 48 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,221 the state of Texas did not execute a single prisoner. 49 00:02:19,290 --> 00:02:22,124 Capital punishment was a thing of the past. 50 00:02:22,193 --> 00:02:24,426 Now every execution I read or heard about 51 00:02:24,495 --> 00:02:26,729 felt sort of personal to me. 52 00:02:26,797 --> 00:02:29,698 [soft twangy music] 53 00:02:29,767 --> 00:02:36,767 ♪ ♪ 54 00:02:36,841 --> 00:02:38,440 What is it about hometowns 55 00:02:38,509 --> 00:02:40,409 and the American consciousness, 56 00:02:40,477 --> 00:02:43,479 stories of people coming to grips with hidden truths 57 00:02:43,547 --> 00:02:45,547 or darker undercurrents they've come to realize 58 00:02:45,616 --> 00:02:49,251 about the town they grew up in? 59 00:02:49,319 --> 00:02:51,920 - I didn't do anything differently. 60 00:02:51,989 --> 00:02:58,793 ♪ ♪ 61 00:02:58,862 --> 00:03:01,463 - But this can't be one of those stories, 62 00:03:01,532 --> 00:03:03,532 because Huntsville's darkest element 63 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,536 is right out in the open in the middle of town 64 00:03:07,605 --> 00:03:10,306 emanating from the state's largest agency. 65 00:03:10,375 --> 00:03:13,542 [soft music] 66 00:03:13,611 --> 00:03:20,586 ♪ ♪ 67 00:03:23,687 --> 00:03:25,087 The only question is to what degree 68 00:03:25,156 --> 00:03:28,290 you even want to think about the nearly 1,000 people 69 00:03:28,359 --> 00:03:30,993 that have been put to death behind these walls. 70 00:03:31,062 --> 00:03:38,037 ♪ ♪ 71 00:03:42,539 --> 00:03:44,768 - ♪ Rock and roll, hoochie koo ♪ 72 00:03:44,837 --> 00:03:46,042 - ♪ Rock and roll... ♪ 73 00:03:46,110 --> 00:03:47,642 - I've made three or four films 74 00:03:47,711 --> 00:03:50,312 inspired by my time here-- mostly comedies. 75 00:03:50,380 --> 00:03:51,981 [indistinct shouting] 76 00:03:52,050 --> 00:03:53,382 - This is where the South begins. 77 00:03:53,450 --> 00:03:55,650 This is life behind the pine curtain. 78 00:03:55,719 --> 00:03:57,520 - I've touched on the East Texasness 79 00:03:57,588 --> 00:03:59,455 of towns like Huntsville. 80 00:03:59,523 --> 00:04:01,723 But outside a brief reference here or there, 81 00:04:01,791 --> 00:04:03,592 I'd never directly taken on the notion 82 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:05,461 of criminal justice or prisons, 83 00:04:05,529 --> 00:04:09,497 even though it looms large in my life. 84 00:04:09,566 --> 00:04:12,867 In 2002, I went pretty far down the road in trying 85 00:04:12,936 --> 00:04:15,370 to make a movie about two high-school football players 86 00:04:15,439 --> 00:04:17,940 that end up on opposite sides of the prison bars 87 00:04:18,008 --> 00:04:19,375 a year out of high school. 88 00:04:19,443 --> 00:04:21,343 But it never got financed. 89 00:04:21,412 --> 00:04:24,446 And then the next year, I found myself here, 90 00:04:24,515 --> 00:04:26,816 just trying to record what was happening on this day 91 00:04:26,885 --> 00:04:28,917 and not sure where it might lead to. 92 00:04:28,986 --> 00:04:30,353 - No eyewitness. 93 00:04:30,421 --> 00:04:31,887 Gun wasn't his. 94 00:04:31,956 --> 00:04:34,456 The car they said he had stolen wasn't his. 95 00:04:34,525 --> 00:04:37,525 And they took an ex-convict word 96 00:04:37,594 --> 00:04:39,927 against my son, who had never been in trouble. 97 00:04:39,996 --> 00:04:43,365 And the burden of proof was on the state's shoulder, 98 00:04:43,434 --> 00:04:45,668 and they didn't prove it. 99 00:04:45,737 --> 00:04:47,902 They fixing to execute my son. 100 00:04:47,971 --> 00:04:50,840 - If they kill my father or if they let my father go, 101 00:04:50,909 --> 00:04:53,175 you cannot take nothing away from him. 102 00:04:53,243 --> 00:04:54,344 You see what I'm saying? 103 00:04:54,413 --> 00:04:56,173 He is happy, 104 00:04:56,241 --> 00:04:57,879 whether you lay him down and put him sleep-- 105 00:04:57,948 --> 00:04:59,915 'cause all you're doing, you're putting him to sleep. 106 00:04:59,984 --> 00:05:01,283 He gonna wake up again. 107 00:05:01,351 --> 00:05:02,750 You see what I'm saying? 108 00:05:02,819 --> 00:05:05,287 So for all those who need to do what they need to do, 109 00:05:05,356 --> 00:05:09,324 do what you need to do, and we pray for you all. 110 00:05:09,393 --> 00:05:11,326 - It soon felt like one of the most intense 111 00:05:11,395 --> 00:05:13,495 and dramatic things I'd ever been around, 112 00:05:13,564 --> 00:05:15,831 a real-life version of the silent-movie scene 113 00:05:15,899 --> 00:05:17,732 where someone is tied to the railroad tracks 114 00:05:17,801 --> 00:05:21,603 as the locomotive approaches in the distance. 115 00:05:21,671 --> 00:05:23,939 But in this case, the rescue could only come 116 00:05:24,008 --> 00:05:26,008 from the Supreme Court. 117 00:05:26,077 --> 00:05:27,844 But no one had heard anything. 118 00:05:27,912 --> 00:05:30,813 [tense music] 119 00:05:30,882 --> 00:05:31,948 ♪ ♪ 120 00:05:32,016 --> 00:05:35,217 The executions are scheduled for 6:00, 121 00:05:35,285 --> 00:05:36,818 and if there were to be a stay, 122 00:05:36,887 --> 00:05:39,321 it would usually come in around 5:00 at the latest, 123 00:05:39,389 --> 00:05:41,223 but it was now approaching 6:00, 124 00:05:41,291 --> 00:05:43,829 and the pressure felt like it was doubling every minute. 125 00:05:48,165 --> 00:05:51,934 - Robert Sparks, if you can hear us, 126 00:05:52,003 --> 00:05:55,637 there's a bunch of us out here supporting you. 127 00:05:55,705 --> 00:05:59,107 We know that what is happening tonight 128 00:05:59,176 --> 00:06:01,176 is wrong. 129 00:06:01,245 --> 00:06:05,075 We know that the state of Texas 130 00:06:05,144 --> 00:06:09,952 has no right to execute anybody. 131 00:06:10,021 --> 00:06:14,524 - God is the only one that can take our lives away. 132 00:06:14,593 --> 00:06:17,660 [mellow country music] 133 00:06:17,729 --> 00:06:24,736 ♪ ♪ 134 00:06:37,714 --> 00:06:40,282 - When Larry Wright, my friend of almost three decades, 135 00:06:40,351 --> 00:06:43,218 asked me to work on this, I agreed because I thought 136 00:06:43,287 --> 00:06:46,021 it might be an opportunity to finally try to explore 137 00:06:46,090 --> 00:06:48,290 and articulate some of my mixed feelings 138 00:06:48,359 --> 00:06:52,794 about how the criminal justice system looms over my hometown. 139 00:06:52,862 --> 00:06:56,365 I'm used to framing stories in fictional contexts, 140 00:06:56,434 --> 00:06:58,267 but this one would be Larry dragging me 141 00:06:58,335 --> 00:06:59,868 through my own life and history. 142 00:06:59,936 --> 00:07:02,036 On the other hand, it would put me in closer contact 143 00:07:02,105 --> 00:07:05,040 with the modern and growing Huntsville of the present, 144 00:07:05,109 --> 00:07:07,676 allow me to see some folks I haven't seen in a while, 145 00:07:07,745 --> 00:07:10,479 and introduce me to a number of other wonderful characters 146 00:07:10,547 --> 00:07:14,050 that typify different aspects of life here. 147 00:07:14,118 --> 00:07:15,384 We just kind of jumped in, 148 00:07:15,452 --> 00:07:17,652 not knowing what we might find. 149 00:07:17,721 --> 00:07:20,456 - One of the reasons we're here is that Texas, 150 00:07:20,524 --> 00:07:24,326 you know, leads the nation in prisons, prisoners, 151 00:07:24,395 --> 00:07:26,528 and growth of prisons and executions. 152 00:07:26,597 --> 00:07:29,331 There's no other state that even comes close to that. 153 00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:33,269 And the heart of the prison society 154 00:07:33,337 --> 00:07:35,738 that Texas represents is Huntsville. 155 00:07:35,807 --> 00:07:37,672 - It weighs over the town, for sure. 156 00:07:37,741 --> 00:07:41,377 You know, like, if a fourth of the town's population 157 00:07:41,445 --> 00:07:43,579 are incarcerated people who aren't free... 158 00:07:43,648 --> 00:07:45,281 - Yeah. - That's a big chunk 159 00:07:45,349 --> 00:07:46,716 of the population. - Right. 160 00:07:46,785 --> 00:07:49,851 [upbeat country music] 161 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,755 - How many prisons are there in the Huntsville area? 162 00:07:52,824 --> 00:07:54,390 - I think there are seven. 163 00:07:54,459 --> 00:07:58,561 ♪ ♪ 164 00:07:58,630 --> 00:08:00,796 On the left here, Goree Unit, 165 00:08:00,865 --> 00:08:03,698 where my sister had her senior prom. 166 00:08:03,767 --> 00:08:05,835 - Oh, your sister had her prom in the prison? 167 00:08:05,904 --> 00:08:08,738 - At Goree Unit, yeah, at the women's prison. 168 00:08:08,807 --> 00:08:11,106 When I first moved here, the vast majority 169 00:08:11,175 --> 00:08:13,709 of the Texas prison system was in the area. 170 00:08:13,777 --> 00:08:17,646 - There are so many prisons. - Yeah, everywhere you go. 171 00:08:17,715 --> 00:08:19,448 At some point, you don't really even see it. 172 00:08:19,517 --> 00:08:23,485 So, in the '90s, I think Huntsville was trying 173 00:08:23,553 --> 00:08:25,720 to rebrand themselves... - Yeah. 174 00:08:25,789 --> 00:08:30,225 - As not just the prison town but home of Sam Houston, 175 00:08:30,294 --> 00:08:31,960 the George Washington of Texas. 176 00:08:32,029 --> 00:08:34,496 If you look closely, it looks like 177 00:08:34,565 --> 00:08:36,565 he's stepping out onto the highway here. 178 00:08:36,634 --> 00:08:38,601 The scale of this thing is crazy. 179 00:08:38,670 --> 00:08:40,570 - Well, it is crazy, 180 00:08:40,638 --> 00:08:42,471 but on the other hand, 181 00:08:42,539 --> 00:08:44,706 it's totally appropriate in some ways, 182 00:08:44,775 --> 00:08:48,811 because Sam Houston really was the father of Texas. 183 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,308 ♪ ♪ 184 00:08:51,376 --> 00:08:52,882 - In my movie "Dazed and Confused," 185 00:08:52,951 --> 00:08:55,217 that was where the Emporium was right there. 186 00:08:55,286 --> 00:08:56,613 - Oh, really? 187 00:08:56,681 --> 00:08:59,087 - The nightly cruise on Friday and Saturday nights 188 00:08:59,156 --> 00:09:00,756 as a teenager was through the Sonic 189 00:09:00,825 --> 00:09:02,425 and then the Emporium. 190 00:09:02,494 --> 00:09:04,694 ♪ ♪ 191 00:09:04,762 --> 00:09:06,328 I think the Texas tradition, 192 00:09:06,397 --> 00:09:08,497 we accept eccentrics 193 00:09:08,566 --> 00:09:09,631 and people doing-- - Yeah. 194 00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:12,001 - You know, expressing their own freedom. 195 00:09:12,069 --> 00:09:14,336 Speaking of, look at this house right there. 196 00:09:14,405 --> 00:09:15,605 It's a boot. - Oh, my God. 197 00:09:15,673 --> 00:09:18,007 [laughs] - The great Dan Phillips. 198 00:09:18,075 --> 00:09:20,342 The first thing they see in Huntsville 199 00:09:20,410 --> 00:09:22,879 is the hat and the boot. 200 00:09:22,947 --> 00:09:26,248 The old Huntsville High School-- 201 00:09:26,316 --> 00:09:28,284 big, red old brick building. 202 00:09:28,352 --> 00:09:30,853 Practice fields on the left, 203 00:09:30,922 --> 00:09:33,659 all just up the hill from the prison. 204 00:09:35,059 --> 00:09:36,692 Even though my family weren't members 205 00:09:36,761 --> 00:09:38,160 of the First Baptist Church, 206 00:09:38,229 --> 00:09:40,730 when I had a particularly nasty bout with mono 207 00:09:40,798 --> 00:09:42,532 my sophomore year in high school, 208 00:09:42,601 --> 00:09:45,300 they prayed for my recovery. 209 00:09:45,369 --> 00:09:47,770 I'm forever touched by the kindness and decency 210 00:09:47,838 --> 00:09:49,638 of the people here, 211 00:09:49,707 --> 00:09:52,375 this tight-knit community that is Huntsville. 212 00:09:52,444 --> 00:09:55,344 [soft music] 213 00:09:55,413 --> 00:09:58,917 ♪ ♪ 214 00:10:00,485 --> 00:10:03,246 [pensive music] 215 00:10:03,315 --> 00:10:04,753 But as I drive past the house 216 00:10:04,821 --> 00:10:06,621 we lived in in fifth and sixth grade, 217 00:10:06,690 --> 00:10:08,790 I think of my next-door neighbor Mark, 218 00:10:08,858 --> 00:10:11,059 a childhood friend and high-school teammate, 219 00:10:11,128 --> 00:10:13,195 and I'm haunted by how his life could go 220 00:10:13,264 --> 00:10:14,596 so far off the rails, 221 00:10:14,664 --> 00:10:17,532 he'd end up dying on death row. 222 00:10:17,601 --> 00:10:19,496 It seemed like the prison just had 223 00:10:19,564 --> 00:10:21,937 this gravitational inevitability to it, 224 00:10:22,006 --> 00:10:24,673 not only pulling so many into its workforce 225 00:10:24,742 --> 00:10:27,109 but also into a life behind bars. 226 00:10:27,178 --> 00:10:29,711 ♪ ♪ 227 00:10:29,780 --> 00:10:31,781 A much larger than normal percentage of the guys 228 00:10:31,850 --> 00:10:34,682 I grew up with ended up doing time. 229 00:10:34,751 --> 00:10:37,520 I haven't been back here in a couple years, 230 00:10:37,588 --> 00:10:39,021 since my mom's memorial. 231 00:10:39,089 --> 00:10:41,089 We were the only divorced family 232 00:10:41,158 --> 00:10:43,759 I'd ever heard of in the whole town, 233 00:10:43,828 --> 00:10:45,261 it felt like. - Yeah. 234 00:10:45,329 --> 00:10:46,796 - She was just so different, 235 00:10:46,865 --> 00:10:48,663 in the fact that she was dating, 236 00:10:48,732 --> 00:10:50,933 and she was kind of a woman of the, you know, 237 00:10:51,001 --> 00:10:53,502 '60s and '70s, you know? - Yeah. 238 00:10:53,571 --> 00:10:55,305 - Just--she was far from a housewife. 239 00:10:55,374 --> 00:10:56,505 - Right. 240 00:10:56,574 --> 00:10:58,240 - But I remember people loving her. 241 00:10:58,309 --> 00:11:00,142 [soft music] 242 00:11:00,211 --> 00:11:02,445 Yeah, we moved out here, which is the boonies. 243 00:11:02,513 --> 00:11:03,780 It's not the inner city. 244 00:11:03,848 --> 00:11:05,380 - Well, it seems kind of nice now. 245 00:11:05,449 --> 00:11:07,582 - It's really pretty. I mean, it's always been this way. 246 00:11:07,651 --> 00:11:09,051 I haven't been back here in years. 247 00:11:09,119 --> 00:11:11,520 The Cowerts lived there. - Yeah. 248 00:11:11,589 --> 00:11:14,193 - The Lossacks lived over there. 249 00:11:15,826 --> 00:11:18,961 We moved, like, four times in three years. 250 00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:20,462 - Yeah. 251 00:11:20,531 --> 00:11:23,733 - After sixth grade, my mom finally bought a house 252 00:11:23,802 --> 00:11:25,334 for $18,000. 253 00:11:25,403 --> 00:11:26,668 - This is it? 254 00:11:26,737 --> 00:11:28,571 - Yeah, looks like we can pull up here. 255 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:31,273 She said we can come by. 256 00:11:31,342 --> 00:11:33,842 Mowing this yard was just hell. - Sure. 257 00:11:33,911 --> 00:11:35,712 - It was like painting the Golden Gate Bridge. 258 00:11:35,780 --> 00:11:36,745 You start on one end. 259 00:11:36,813 --> 00:11:40,182 By the time you get done, it's time to start again. 260 00:11:40,250 --> 00:11:42,318 - Look, they put out a lawn mower for you. 261 00:11:42,386 --> 00:11:43,820 - Yeah. [both laughing] 262 00:11:43,888 --> 00:11:45,654 Aah, PTSD. - He's coming back. 263 00:11:45,723 --> 00:11:46,789 - PTSD. 264 00:11:46,857 --> 00:11:48,991 We had a pen in the back where we had a-- 265 00:11:49,060 --> 00:11:50,859 for Christmas one time, some-- 266 00:11:50,928 --> 00:11:54,764 my stepfather's in-laws gave us a baby bull... 267 00:11:54,832 --> 00:11:56,165 - A bull? - For Christmas, yeah. 268 00:11:56,233 --> 00:11:57,933 - They don't stay babies. - No. 269 00:11:58,002 --> 00:11:59,535 - Yeah. - No, it got so big, 270 00:11:59,604 --> 00:12:00,969 it would break out of its pen. 271 00:12:01,038 --> 00:12:03,338 So we kept that gate locked all the time, 'cause we had dogs. 272 00:12:03,407 --> 00:12:05,741 But also, you had this bull that might attack you. 273 00:12:05,809 --> 00:12:07,777 - Right, yeah. - It would just come at you. 274 00:12:07,845 --> 00:12:09,778 - Uh-huh. - Yeah, we had a tambourine. 275 00:12:09,846 --> 00:12:12,582 We would hit it, you know, and it would scare it. 276 00:12:12,650 --> 00:12:13,782 - Hello. - Hello. 277 00:12:13,851 --> 00:12:15,251 - How are you? - I'm all right. 278 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:16,752 - Hi. 279 00:12:16,820 --> 00:12:18,521 Yeah, I was saying I lived here a long time ago. 280 00:12:18,590 --> 00:12:19,789 - Oh, okay. 281 00:12:19,858 --> 00:12:21,589 - In the '70's, my mom had this house. 282 00:12:21,658 --> 00:12:23,826 We bought it in '73 and stuff, so... 283 00:12:23,894 --> 00:12:25,061 I'm Rick, by the way. 284 00:12:25,129 --> 00:12:26,895 - Nice to meet you. I'm Nikki. 285 00:12:26,964 --> 00:12:28,564 - Do you have to mow this whole yard? 286 00:12:28,633 --> 00:12:29,865 - Yes. - Do you do it? 287 00:12:29,934 --> 00:12:31,633 - I do it. - How long does it take? 288 00:12:31,702 --> 00:12:32,869 - When I do it with my push mower, 289 00:12:32,937 --> 00:12:34,169 it takes me three hours. 290 00:12:34,238 --> 00:12:36,572 - She has a push mower. - [laughs] 291 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,473 Where is it? - I even have that one. 292 00:12:38,542 --> 00:12:41,344 - You're killing my story. You do it with this mower? 293 00:12:41,413 --> 00:12:42,544 - This is great. 294 00:12:42,613 --> 00:12:45,247 - No, I was saying how this was the worst of my childhood, 295 00:12:45,316 --> 00:12:48,150 having to mow this huge yard. - Oh, yes. 296 00:12:48,219 --> 00:12:50,887 - I want to know, what do you use this building for? 297 00:12:50,955 --> 00:12:52,621 - Oh, just like a storage. - Storage? 298 00:12:52,690 --> 00:12:55,391 Okay, because I built this with my uncle and grandfather. 299 00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:56,525 - Really? 300 00:12:56,593 --> 00:12:58,828 - My grandfather had a little woodworking studio. 301 00:12:58,896 --> 00:12:59,928 - Uh-huh, still-- 302 00:12:59,997 --> 00:13:01,629 - And I don't think it's changed. 303 00:13:01,698 --> 00:13:04,033 - Still here. - Yeah. This is it. 304 00:13:04,101 --> 00:13:05,935 But, hey, it's a good little storage. 305 00:13:06,004 --> 00:13:07,102 I just thought this plywood-- 306 00:13:07,171 --> 00:13:11,040 I just would never have thought it would still be here. 307 00:13:11,109 --> 00:13:13,408 My mom landed a job teaching speech pathology 308 00:13:13,477 --> 00:13:16,878 at the local university, Sam Houston State. 309 00:13:16,947 --> 00:13:19,882 That's why we moved here when I was a kid in 1970. 310 00:13:19,950 --> 00:13:21,150 It was about a year or two 311 00:13:21,218 --> 00:13:23,551 after they had finally integrated the schools. 312 00:13:23,620 --> 00:13:26,955 - Desegregation by order of the federal district court 313 00:13:27,024 --> 00:13:30,025 is proceeding this year in kindergarten 314 00:13:30,094 --> 00:13:31,727 through junior and senior high school. 315 00:13:31,796 --> 00:13:33,362 - Before I moved to Huntsville, 316 00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:35,665 hundreds of prisoners had been put to death 317 00:13:35,734 --> 00:13:37,032 in the electric chair, 318 00:13:37,101 --> 00:13:40,002 affectionately referred to as Old Sparky. 319 00:13:40,071 --> 00:13:44,039 Old Sparky's last execution was in 1964. 320 00:13:44,108 --> 00:13:46,342 - The Supreme Court declared the death penalty 321 00:13:46,410 --> 00:13:50,012 unconstitutional today and spared the lives of 600 men 322 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,048 in death row cells across the country. 323 00:13:52,116 --> 00:13:54,451 - As it stands now, the death penalty is illegal 324 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:55,717 in the United States. 325 00:13:55,786 --> 00:13:59,054 - This was also the heyday of the Texas Prison Rodeo. 326 00:13:59,123 --> 00:14:01,691 - Once a year, 90,000 people from all over the country 327 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,425 fill this East Texas arena. 328 00:14:03,494 --> 00:14:05,361 It's the most unique rodeo in the world. 329 00:14:05,429 --> 00:14:07,396 You see, all of the participants are convicts. 330 00:14:07,464 --> 00:14:09,665 - It was an economic boom for the town 331 00:14:09,734 --> 00:14:10,933 every Sunday in October. 332 00:14:11,002 --> 00:14:12,569 - I'm in here for burglary. 333 00:14:12,637 --> 00:14:13,736 - Aggravated robbery. 334 00:14:13,805 --> 00:14:14,837 - Murder. 335 00:14:14,906 --> 00:14:17,039 - Many of us parked cars at the rodeo 336 00:14:17,107 --> 00:14:19,275 just to make a few extra dollars. 337 00:14:19,344 --> 00:14:22,681 [crowd cheering] 338 00:14:24,014 --> 00:14:27,550 In 1982, a year or so after I moved away, 339 00:14:27,619 --> 00:14:29,218 I was living in Houston 340 00:14:29,287 --> 00:14:32,889 when they brought the death penalty back. 341 00:14:32,957 --> 00:14:35,057 - After a 10-year struggle, the Senate voted 342 00:14:35,125 --> 00:14:36,424 to reinstate the death penalty. 343 00:14:36,493 --> 00:14:38,961 - Texas was about to execute its first person 344 00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:40,362 in almost two decades. 345 00:14:40,431 --> 00:14:42,131 - Death row inmate Charlie Brooks Jr. 346 00:14:42,199 --> 00:14:43,999 will be the first man in the country 347 00:14:44,068 --> 00:14:45,968 executed by lethal injection 348 00:14:46,037 --> 00:14:48,904 and the first man executed in Texas since 1964. 349 00:14:48,973 --> 00:14:51,239 - I remember the news footage that night. 350 00:14:51,308 --> 00:14:53,643 They cut to what looked like a huge mob of people 351 00:14:53,712 --> 00:14:55,177 outside the Walls Unit. 352 00:14:55,246 --> 00:14:57,645 [crowd shouting indistinctly] 353 00:14:57,714 --> 00:15:00,448 For a second, I thought, "Oh, good for my hometown 354 00:15:00,517 --> 00:15:02,885 "for protesting this barbaric practice 355 00:15:02,953 --> 00:15:05,221 that's been brought back." 356 00:15:05,289 --> 00:15:07,623 - Outside the prison, a crowd had gathered. 357 00:15:07,692 --> 00:15:08,991 Some had come to cheer. 358 00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:10,592 - Then I realized, 359 00:15:10,661 --> 00:15:13,863 "Oh, it's mostly a pro-death penalty rally." 360 00:15:13,932 --> 00:15:15,463 - Hey, where's the stopping point? 361 00:15:15,532 --> 00:15:17,199 - He's already stopped. He's behind bars. 362 00:15:17,268 --> 00:15:18,967 - What happens if he kills somebody else? 363 00:15:19,036 --> 00:15:20,202 - Behind bars? 364 00:15:20,271 --> 00:15:22,071 - Sure, they do it all the time. 365 00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:23,873 - It was really disturbing. 366 00:15:23,942 --> 00:15:26,041 - Kill first, ask questions later. 367 00:15:26,110 --> 00:15:28,277 - It just feels like there's still some element 368 00:15:28,346 --> 00:15:30,479 of frontier justice in the Texas spirit. 369 00:15:30,547 --> 00:15:32,448 - Are you in favor to support lowering 370 00:15:32,516 --> 00:15:35,985 the capital punishment age for juveniles from 17? 371 00:15:36,053 --> 00:15:39,288 - I think we ought to try 14-year-olders as adults. 372 00:15:39,357 --> 00:15:43,091 - On all issues of punishment, we think we're the toughest. 373 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,528 - Governor Perry, your state has executed 374 00:15:45,596 --> 00:15:47,529 234 death row inmates, 375 00:15:47,597 --> 00:15:50,165 more than any other governor in modern times. 376 00:15:50,234 --> 00:15:52,134 Have you-- [applause] 377 00:15:52,202 --> 00:15:53,836 - I'm in favor of the death penalty, 378 00:15:53,905 --> 00:15:55,805 and we want to ensure the death penalty 379 00:15:55,873 --> 00:15:58,408 is going to be enforced effectively. 380 00:15:58,476 --> 00:16:00,877 [tense music] 381 00:16:00,945 --> 00:16:03,312 - So the prison is right downtown. 382 00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:04,947 - Right downtown. - Fascinating. 383 00:16:05,016 --> 00:16:06,715 - One block from the courthouse. 384 00:16:06,784 --> 00:16:07,749 - Yeah. 385 00:16:07,817 --> 00:16:10,848 - The Walls Unit is the oldest prison in Texas. 386 00:16:10,916 --> 00:16:14,290 That's where the executions certainly are. 387 00:16:14,358 --> 00:16:16,925 I had a stepfather who was a prison guard. 388 00:16:16,994 --> 00:16:19,461 I had another stepfather who was in prison. 389 00:16:19,530 --> 00:16:21,729 Yeah, I remember visiting him a couple times. 390 00:16:21,798 --> 00:16:25,201 He was really a bright guy, an electronics whiz. 391 00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:27,635 My mom had met him through some activist friends of hers. 392 00:16:27,704 --> 00:16:29,839 And I think she thought if she married him, 393 00:16:29,907 --> 00:16:31,974 it would help him get out sooner. 394 00:16:32,042 --> 00:16:33,475 In the end, it didn't work out, 395 00:16:33,543 --> 00:16:35,412 and their marriage was annulled. 396 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,346 [pensive music] 397 00:16:37,414 --> 00:16:40,416 My mom was compassionate, strong, a fighter. 398 00:16:40,484 --> 00:16:42,451 When she saw something she thought was wrong, 399 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,320 her impulse was to actually try 400 00:16:44,388 --> 00:16:46,155 to make it better if she could. 401 00:16:46,224 --> 00:16:47,556 I see many of her qualities 402 00:16:47,625 --> 00:16:49,959 in some of the folks who live here. 403 00:16:50,027 --> 00:16:51,327 - She was a delight. 404 00:16:51,395 --> 00:16:53,929 She was a little bit of a spitfire and kept-- 405 00:16:53,998 --> 00:16:55,297 - Really? - She was our spice. 406 00:16:55,366 --> 00:16:57,667 Yeah, she was our Spice Girl down there. 407 00:16:57,736 --> 00:16:59,968 But, yeah, she was a fighter. 408 00:17:00,037 --> 00:17:02,872 She did not--she was tenacious. 409 00:17:02,940 --> 00:17:04,640 That's a word I would apply to her. 410 00:17:04,709 --> 00:17:05,574 - I think so, yeah. 411 00:17:05,642 --> 00:17:07,777 - I was really sad when she was gone. 412 00:17:07,846 --> 00:17:09,478 - Yeah. - You know. 413 00:17:09,547 --> 00:17:11,513 - Bambi is an old classmate from high school. 414 00:17:11,582 --> 00:17:13,548 We were on the newspaper staff together. 415 00:17:13,617 --> 00:17:16,652 Later, she became my mom's neighbor and friend, 416 00:17:16,721 --> 00:17:18,053 and she spent her career 417 00:17:18,122 --> 00:17:20,088 as an educator in the prison system. 418 00:17:20,157 --> 00:17:22,085 - These are people that, for the most part, 419 00:17:22,154 --> 00:17:25,027 have never had any kind of success in their lives... 420 00:17:25,095 --> 00:17:26,562 - Mm-hmm. - Much less academic. 421 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:29,031 So to watch somebody make the change 422 00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:32,067 or realize that they had worth and value 423 00:17:32,136 --> 00:17:35,204 and that they could go and be released 424 00:17:35,272 --> 00:17:37,239 and then take care of their families, 425 00:17:37,307 --> 00:17:39,675 go back to society, stay out of prison... 426 00:17:39,744 --> 00:17:40,775 - Yeah. 427 00:17:40,844 --> 00:17:43,145 - That was really a gratifying thing to be a part of. 428 00:17:43,214 --> 00:17:45,981 - When my mom heard that inmates being released, 429 00:17:46,050 --> 00:17:47,749 all with $200 in their pocket, 430 00:17:47,818 --> 00:17:51,120 were being met first by drug dealers and prostitutes, 431 00:17:51,188 --> 00:17:53,722 she started a program where they were invited 432 00:17:53,790 --> 00:17:57,225 to a reception area for free coffee and doughnuts. 433 00:17:57,294 --> 00:18:00,295 That way, their reintroduction into society 434 00:18:00,364 --> 00:18:02,965 began with a conversation with someone who cared 435 00:18:03,034 --> 00:18:05,234 about what was next for them. 436 00:18:05,303 --> 00:18:08,070 But that was her, trying to right a wrong, 437 00:18:08,139 --> 00:18:11,908 trying to help folks in any way she could. 438 00:18:11,976 --> 00:18:14,944 [light music] 439 00:18:15,013 --> 00:18:16,511 - I was asked one time 440 00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:18,715 how many tickets I've made for inmates. 441 00:18:18,783 --> 00:18:21,745 Okay, if you do an average 442 00:18:21,814 --> 00:18:26,321 of 60 a day, 5 days a week... 443 00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:29,992 52 weeks a year for 30 years, 444 00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:32,895 it's been a lot of tickets. 445 00:18:32,964 --> 00:18:36,498 And I would say... 446 00:18:36,567 --> 00:18:39,367 somewhere around 20% of those, 447 00:18:39,436 --> 00:18:41,371 I've seen more than one time. 448 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,839 ♪ ♪ 449 00:18:43,908 --> 00:18:46,141 I have seen fights. 450 00:18:46,210 --> 00:18:48,077 - Yeah, that was the funny one. 451 00:18:48,146 --> 00:18:51,847 - Yeah, two women show up to pick up one guy. 452 00:18:51,915 --> 00:18:54,216 It don't work that way. - And he gets on the bus. 453 00:18:54,284 --> 00:18:56,384 [both laughing] 454 00:18:56,453 --> 00:18:58,087 "Give me my ticket. I'm getting on the bus." 455 00:18:58,156 --> 00:18:59,288 - Mm-hmm. - You know? 456 00:18:59,357 --> 00:19:01,223 And two ladies are just out there, 457 00:19:01,291 --> 00:19:03,158 squabbling over him, and-- 458 00:19:03,227 --> 00:19:04,659 - There's been a lot of comedy. 459 00:19:04,728 --> 00:19:06,795 There's been a lot of sad things that happen, too. 460 00:19:06,864 --> 00:19:08,030 - Yeah. - Yeah. 461 00:19:08,099 --> 00:19:09,664 If I take five minutes and talk to 'em, 462 00:19:09,733 --> 00:19:11,600 I can tell you whether they're coming back or not. 463 00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:13,702 - I'll get to the halfway house today. 464 00:19:13,771 --> 00:19:17,305 Oh, couple days, I should know what's going on. 465 00:19:17,374 --> 00:19:20,042 I just wanted to let y'all know I'm out. 466 00:19:20,111 --> 00:19:22,811 I got three months of parole, but, hey... 467 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,479 - Next. 468 00:19:24,548 --> 00:19:27,850 In 30 years, you can't come up with an excuse 469 00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:30,219 that I haven't heard already. 470 00:19:30,288 --> 00:19:34,023 Nobody has committed a major crime. 471 00:19:34,092 --> 00:19:35,858 Nobody wants to be a criminal. 472 00:19:35,927 --> 00:19:38,326 ♪ ♪ 473 00:19:38,395 --> 00:19:40,062 - We're the first leg of their trip. 474 00:19:40,131 --> 00:19:43,098 You know, this is just the beginning of their journey 475 00:19:43,167 --> 00:19:44,766 back into society. 476 00:19:44,834 --> 00:19:46,501 They're trying to figure out where they're gonna go, 477 00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:48,231 how they're gonna get there, 478 00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:50,072 and they're just trying to get it all figured out. 479 00:19:50,141 --> 00:19:52,574 ♪ ♪ 480 00:19:52,643 --> 00:19:54,277 - Okay, we'll see y'all tomorrow. 481 00:19:54,345 --> 00:19:55,681 - Bye. - Bye. 482 00:19:57,181 --> 00:19:59,515 - And some of them will tell you, 483 00:19:59,583 --> 00:20:02,919 "Oh, well, I'll be back in a couple years. 484 00:20:02,987 --> 00:20:04,486 I guess I'll see you again." 485 00:20:04,555 --> 00:20:06,054 And I'll tell them, I say, "Hey, 486 00:20:06,123 --> 00:20:07,556 "let me give you a round-trip ticket. 487 00:20:07,625 --> 00:20:09,491 "That way, they don't have to come get you. 488 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:10,959 You can come back on your own." 489 00:20:11,028 --> 00:20:13,565 ♪ ♪ 490 00:20:18,402 --> 00:20:20,973 - I really hope they get out soon. 491 00:20:22,639 --> 00:20:24,640 I just saw him, like, walking down the street, 492 00:20:24,708 --> 00:20:26,946 and I asked him if he's-- - I don't see him. 493 00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:31,583 - Oh, look, there's a... 494 00:20:33,846 --> 00:20:35,750 - Well, it started off 495 00:20:35,819 --> 00:20:38,520 when I was, like, super little, for five years. 496 00:20:38,588 --> 00:20:41,356 He got on parole for about three years. 497 00:20:41,425 --> 00:20:46,195 And then he went back for another two years, so... 498 00:20:46,264 --> 00:20:48,030 I actually want to be a football player 499 00:20:48,098 --> 00:20:49,265 when I grow up, 500 00:20:49,333 --> 00:20:52,968 and I haven't really been able to play football with anybody, 501 00:20:53,037 --> 00:20:55,838 'cause, like, my grandma's not really into football, 502 00:20:55,907 --> 00:20:57,406 'cause she's a grandma. 503 00:20:57,474 --> 00:21:01,443 And my dad is, like, a huge sports fanatic. 504 00:21:01,512 --> 00:21:04,814 So me and him are gonna, like, play football and stuff, 505 00:21:04,883 --> 00:21:06,352 and it's gonna be fun. 506 00:21:16,127 --> 00:21:17,225 - It's crazy. 507 00:21:17,294 --> 00:21:19,427 We've been waiting on this day for so long. 508 00:21:19,496 --> 00:21:22,464 It seemed like it was never coming. 509 00:21:22,532 --> 00:21:24,801 And now it's here. It don't seem real. 510 00:21:24,869 --> 00:21:26,668 I think it's just the time away, 511 00:21:26,737 --> 00:21:28,437 and you're missing out on so much. 512 00:21:28,505 --> 00:21:30,106 And it ain't nothing you can do. 513 00:21:30,174 --> 00:21:31,073 It ain't no second chances 514 00:21:31,142 --> 00:21:33,208 and creating the stuff you missed out on. 515 00:21:33,277 --> 00:21:35,877 [bell tolling] 516 00:21:35,946 --> 00:21:38,113 - I'm super excited, 'cause, like, I actually have 517 00:21:38,182 --> 00:21:41,250 my football, like, in the car. 518 00:21:41,318 --> 00:21:42,718 He's changed. 519 00:21:42,786 --> 00:21:45,087 And he said that his, like, number-one priority 520 00:21:45,156 --> 00:21:47,422 would be me... 521 00:21:47,491 --> 00:21:49,928 like, taking care of me and stuff. 522 00:21:52,696 --> 00:21:55,565 - Y'all keep looking. They got me looking. 523 00:21:55,634 --> 00:21:56,865 [laughs] 524 00:21:56,934 --> 00:21:59,702 The dude looking. I'm like, is he coming? 525 00:21:59,771 --> 00:22:01,138 [laughs] 526 00:22:01,206 --> 00:22:02,338 Oh. 527 00:22:02,406 --> 00:22:04,106 My heart is, like, beating. 528 00:22:04,175 --> 00:22:07,075 [soft music] 529 00:22:07,144 --> 00:22:11,146 ♪ ♪ 530 00:22:11,215 --> 00:22:13,383 - There they go. They coming out. 531 00:22:13,451 --> 00:22:15,617 - Look at 'em, y'all. 532 00:22:15,686 --> 00:22:17,253 - I don't see him. - They coming, y'all. 533 00:22:17,322 --> 00:22:18,588 They coming. 534 00:22:18,657 --> 00:22:20,557 He coming, y'all. He coming. 535 00:22:20,625 --> 00:22:24,861 [laughs] Oh, my gosh. 536 00:22:24,929 --> 00:22:26,195 - I don't see him. Who-- 537 00:22:26,264 --> 00:22:27,763 - Shit, is this him right here? 538 00:22:27,832 --> 00:22:28,798 - Yeah. 539 00:22:28,867 --> 00:22:30,165 Let me see. 540 00:22:30,234 --> 00:22:31,767 - Welcome home, all y'all. 541 00:22:31,836 --> 00:22:33,636 - Welcome home. - Welcome home. 542 00:22:33,705 --> 00:22:35,271 Welcome home, man. Welcome home. 543 00:22:35,339 --> 00:22:36,808 - Welcome home. 544 00:22:38,643 --> 00:22:40,509 Oh. - What's up, man? 545 00:22:40,578 --> 00:22:42,779 - Welcome home, everybody. 546 00:22:42,847 --> 00:22:44,742 - What's up, man? 547 00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:46,983 What's up, Mom? 548 00:22:47,051 --> 00:22:48,820 - Hi. - What's going on? 549 00:22:50,655 --> 00:22:52,154 My son, he's my world. 550 00:22:52,222 --> 00:22:53,322 What's up, bud? 551 00:22:53,390 --> 00:22:54,890 Out of the ten years of his life, 552 00:22:54,959 --> 00:22:56,758 I've been incarcerated about eight of 'em. 553 00:22:56,826 --> 00:22:58,928 So you can't really be too good of a father from in here. 554 00:22:58,997 --> 00:22:59,828 - Dad? - Yeah. 555 00:22:59,897 --> 00:23:01,698 - You don't have to check in over there? 556 00:23:01,766 --> 00:23:03,165 - No. Let's go. - Oh, are you done? 557 00:23:03,233 --> 00:23:04,466 All right. 558 00:23:04,535 --> 00:23:06,234 - I mean, I love my son more than anything. 559 00:23:06,303 --> 00:23:07,936 But, you know, I do have a little-- 560 00:23:08,005 --> 00:23:09,872 you know, you get a little nervous stepping out of here. 561 00:23:09,941 --> 00:23:12,174 So, you know, he asked me why I'm not excited. 562 00:23:12,243 --> 00:23:13,275 I am excited. 563 00:23:13,344 --> 00:23:15,744 But, I mean, at the same time, I got to start all over. 564 00:23:15,813 --> 00:23:17,679 I had to sell my house. I sold some things. 565 00:23:17,748 --> 00:23:20,283 So I'm starting from scratch again, so... 566 00:23:20,352 --> 00:23:22,484 ♪ ♪ 567 00:23:22,553 --> 00:23:24,787 - I didn't think this day would ever come. 568 00:23:24,856 --> 00:23:27,356 Ahh! [laughs] 569 00:23:27,425 --> 00:23:29,825 Somebody call and tell my mama we got her baby. 570 00:23:29,894 --> 00:23:33,395 - For real. [indistinct chatter] 571 00:23:33,464 --> 00:23:36,632 - 11 years, 7 months, 572 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:39,735 my brother been off up in that thing. 573 00:23:39,804 --> 00:23:41,670 Now he here for all the holidays. 574 00:23:41,738 --> 00:23:44,807 We're about to party for Halloween, Thanksgiving, 575 00:23:44,876 --> 00:23:47,443 Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa. 576 00:23:47,512 --> 00:23:49,045 What's next? 577 00:23:49,113 --> 00:23:51,313 We celebrating it all. 578 00:23:51,381 --> 00:23:53,349 We got so much time to make up for. 579 00:23:53,418 --> 00:23:58,754 ♪ ♪ 580 00:23:58,823 --> 00:24:01,793 - He said that this is the last time. 581 00:24:03,561 --> 00:24:06,729 [indistinct chatter] 582 00:24:06,798 --> 00:24:11,166 ♪ ♪ 583 00:24:11,235 --> 00:24:13,002 - You know, I think I got a lot more going for me 584 00:24:13,071 --> 00:24:14,803 than a lot of people getting out of here. 585 00:24:14,872 --> 00:24:17,372 So, I mean, they don't offer no rehabilitation. 586 00:24:17,441 --> 00:24:19,609 If you're trying to get right, you need to do it on your own, 587 00:24:19,678 --> 00:24:21,143 you know what I mean? 588 00:24:21,211 --> 00:24:23,015 - We out of here. 589 00:24:24,816 --> 00:24:26,448 Ahh! 590 00:24:26,517 --> 00:24:28,751 He here now, man. Ain't no looking back. 591 00:24:28,819 --> 00:24:30,452 Nigga, we finna burn rubber. 592 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:31,954 Don't even look out the window, kid. 593 00:24:32,023 --> 00:24:33,956 Close your eyes till we get on the freeway. 594 00:24:34,025 --> 00:24:37,260 [laughter] Don't even look at the shit. 595 00:24:37,329 --> 00:24:39,161 We leaving. 596 00:24:39,230 --> 00:24:42,168 [indistinct chatter] 597 00:24:46,703 --> 00:24:49,406 - Kiner, what are you doing in town, brother? 598 00:24:49,474 --> 00:24:50,640 - [laughs] 599 00:24:50,708 --> 00:24:52,074 - Oh, it's a wife thing. 600 00:24:52,142 --> 00:24:53,075 - Dale, hey, man. 601 00:24:53,144 --> 00:24:55,377 - My wife's helping his wife put on a-- 602 00:24:55,445 --> 00:24:57,013 - Yeah. A baby shower. - A baby shower. 603 00:24:57,081 --> 00:25:01,550 - Dale and I played baseball together at Sam Houston. 604 00:25:01,619 --> 00:25:03,786 And my film "Everybody Wants Some!!" 605 00:25:03,855 --> 00:25:06,225 is based on my own experiences there. 606 00:25:07,892 --> 00:25:09,992 The off-campus houses we all lived in 607 00:25:10,061 --> 00:25:12,895 were just a few blocks from the prison. 608 00:25:12,964 --> 00:25:14,663 Amityville East. 609 00:25:14,732 --> 00:25:17,299 - Yes, quite a-- quite an experience. 610 00:25:17,368 --> 00:25:19,834 - [laughs] - 40 years ago. 611 00:25:19,903 --> 00:25:22,204 - It's still here, man. What, the couch was right here? 612 00:25:22,273 --> 00:25:23,372 - Couch here. 613 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,107 This was--and you remember the couch? 614 00:25:25,176 --> 00:25:27,043 It had all kinds of rips and tears, fuzz coming out. 615 00:25:27,111 --> 00:25:28,177 - Yeah. Total... 616 00:25:28,245 --> 00:25:30,746 This was also the Nerf ball court, as I remember. 617 00:25:30,814 --> 00:25:32,680 - Yeah, we had a Nerf hoop mounted somewhere. 618 00:25:32,749 --> 00:25:34,549 - Yeah, it was, I think, against that wall. 619 00:25:34,618 --> 00:25:36,152 - And we had a foosball table... 620 00:25:36,220 --> 00:25:37,353 - Uh-huh. - In here. 621 00:25:37,421 --> 00:25:39,021 - It was a cool bonding experience 622 00:25:39,089 --> 00:25:40,823 just to be living with 18 guys. 623 00:25:40,891 --> 00:25:42,790 - Mm-hmm. - That was a damn good team. 624 00:25:42,859 --> 00:25:44,827 Did you ever think you'd still be in Huntsville? 625 00:25:44,895 --> 00:25:48,430 - No, it was almost like... 626 00:25:48,499 --> 00:25:51,466 fate that brought me back here. - Yeah. 627 00:25:51,535 --> 00:25:53,169 I remember, just from my perspective-- 628 00:25:53,237 --> 00:25:54,403 I got a call from Keith. 629 00:25:54,472 --> 00:25:55,904 It was like, "Hey, we think something-- 630 00:25:55,973 --> 00:25:57,474 "you know, I think Dale, something happened to him 631 00:25:57,542 --> 00:25:58,708 "or something's wrong. 632 00:25:58,777 --> 00:26:00,176 "He's not returning phone calls. 633 00:26:00,244 --> 00:26:01,510 - Mm-hmm. - "Where's Dale?" 634 00:26:01,578 --> 00:26:03,077 - I had shut everybody off... - Right. 635 00:26:03,146 --> 00:26:05,547 - Because I didn't want to drag anybody else through my mess. 636 00:26:05,615 --> 00:26:07,516 - Yeah, so-- - You know, I created it. 637 00:26:07,585 --> 00:26:09,952 And so, you know, I paid the price for that-- 638 00:26:10,020 --> 00:26:12,120 sentenced to 30 years in prison, 639 00:26:12,189 --> 00:26:14,691 never been in trouble with the law ever. 640 00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:16,726 - For a financial thing. - Mm-hmm. 641 00:26:16,794 --> 00:26:18,761 - 30 years, that goes for people who-- 642 00:26:18,830 --> 00:26:20,863 that's in rape/murder territory. 643 00:26:20,932 --> 00:26:23,032 - Yeah, it was an interesting experience. 644 00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:25,067 Prison is not what people think it is. 645 00:26:25,135 --> 00:26:28,538 Being in prison is not a lot different than being 646 00:26:28,606 --> 00:26:29,939 out here in the free world. 647 00:26:30,007 --> 00:26:33,575 About 90% of the people are good people... 648 00:26:33,643 --> 00:26:35,878 - Mm-hmm. - Who have made bad choices, 649 00:26:35,947 --> 00:26:37,880 just like out here. - Right. 650 00:26:37,949 --> 00:26:40,377 - Not everybody in prison is bad. 651 00:26:40,445 --> 00:26:42,785 - How long were you in? - 39 months. 652 00:26:42,854 --> 00:26:45,054 - 39 months out of a 30-year sentence? 653 00:26:45,123 --> 00:26:47,890 - Yeah. Of all the things that I regret seeing 654 00:26:47,958 --> 00:26:49,626 through this whole process, 655 00:26:49,694 --> 00:26:53,628 it's how young minorities... 656 00:26:53,697 --> 00:26:56,432 that don't have money are treated. 657 00:26:56,501 --> 00:26:58,233 They don't have a chance. 658 00:26:58,302 --> 00:27:00,636 I mean, they make you sit in there until you plead guilty. 659 00:27:00,705 --> 00:27:02,304 - Yeah. Oh, gosh. - They do. 660 00:27:02,373 --> 00:27:04,639 I mean, I sat and watched it. It's sickening. 661 00:27:04,708 --> 00:27:06,576 It doesn't matter whether you're guilty or not. 662 00:27:06,644 --> 00:27:07,810 They just want a conviction. 663 00:27:07,878 --> 00:27:09,477 - How do you explain-- 664 00:27:09,546 --> 00:27:11,246 When I was a kid here in Huntsville, 665 00:27:11,315 --> 00:27:12,948 there were 50,000 inmates, 666 00:27:13,017 --> 00:27:15,184 and now there's, like, 10 times as much. 667 00:27:15,252 --> 00:27:17,820 In a generation, it's a tenfold thing. 668 00:27:17,888 --> 00:27:19,721 There were-- there were, like, 11 prisons. 669 00:27:19,790 --> 00:27:21,758 Now there's 100 and something. - There's 104. 670 00:27:21,826 --> 00:27:24,060 - What's going on? What does it mean? 671 00:27:24,128 --> 00:27:25,827 - I think it's about money. - Yeah. 672 00:27:25,895 --> 00:27:28,565 - Texas Correctional Industries run the prison system, 673 00:27:28,633 --> 00:27:30,098 'cause it's industry. 674 00:27:30,167 --> 00:27:31,768 I mean, that's how they... - Yeah. 675 00:27:31,836 --> 00:27:33,702 - Keep the cost of the prison down. 676 00:27:33,771 --> 00:27:36,038 What would the economy in Huntsville do 677 00:27:36,107 --> 00:27:39,208 if they shut down half the prisons here? 678 00:27:39,277 --> 00:27:40,376 It would-- - [scoffs] 679 00:27:40,444 --> 00:27:41,843 - Right. It would be tough. 680 00:27:41,911 --> 00:27:43,679 - It just seems like there's a machinery involved 681 00:27:43,748 --> 00:27:46,182 in this prosecution, punitive... 682 00:27:46,250 --> 00:27:48,750 And then, ultimately, it's the machinery of death, too. 683 00:27:48,819 --> 00:27:50,787 You know, they're executing someone this evening. 684 00:27:50,855 --> 00:27:52,288 Did you know that? - I did. 685 00:27:52,356 --> 00:27:56,258 The spiritual side of me says it's not our-- 686 00:27:56,326 --> 00:27:59,829 it's not our job to decide life and death. 687 00:27:59,897 --> 00:28:02,331 I mean, that's what the Bible says. 688 00:28:02,399 --> 00:28:05,734 So I struggle with that. 689 00:28:05,803 --> 00:28:08,103 [soft music] 690 00:28:08,172 --> 00:28:10,239 - Sam Houston State's student population 691 00:28:10,307 --> 00:28:12,107 of over 20,000 692 00:28:12,176 --> 00:28:15,011 is almost double what it was when I was here. 693 00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:17,012 They have many top-notch programs, 694 00:28:17,081 --> 00:28:19,282 one of the largest criminal justice departments 695 00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:21,017 in the country. 696 00:28:21,085 --> 00:28:23,452 And recently the Bearkat football team 697 00:28:23,521 --> 00:28:25,521 even won a national championship. 698 00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:26,922 - Sam Houston wins it! 699 00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:30,226 The Bearkats capture their first FCS championship! 700 00:28:30,295 --> 00:28:33,528 ♪ ♪ 701 00:28:33,597 --> 00:28:36,866 - Well, I think prisons don't really define the town, 702 00:28:36,935 --> 00:28:38,100 you know, 'cause it's not like 703 00:28:38,168 --> 00:28:40,002 they're running around here, you know. 704 00:28:40,071 --> 00:28:41,936 - I mean, every now and then, you know, 705 00:28:42,005 --> 00:28:44,506 you see people in their guard uniforms walking around. 706 00:28:44,575 --> 00:28:46,341 But I never thought to myself, 707 00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:47,610 "Huh, I'm in a prison town 708 00:28:47,679 --> 00:28:49,211 with a whole bunch of prisoners." 709 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,614 - And it's weird because you can see, like, 710 00:28:51,683 --> 00:28:53,448 whenever they're getting released 711 00:28:53,517 --> 00:28:56,218 or even when there's, like, an execution about to happen, 712 00:28:56,287 --> 00:28:57,887 like, you see the protesters and stuff. 713 00:28:57,955 --> 00:28:59,556 But it's weird because it's just 714 00:28:59,624 --> 00:29:00,923 kind of, like, normal now. 715 00:29:00,992 --> 00:29:02,757 - You know, it's, like, an open campus. 716 00:29:02,826 --> 00:29:04,760 People come and protest down in the mall area. 717 00:29:04,829 --> 00:29:07,029 But other than that, 718 00:29:07,097 --> 00:29:08,831 I've never heard no professor talk about it, 719 00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:09,932 none of my friends. 720 00:29:10,001 --> 00:29:11,567 - Oh, man. [scoffs] 721 00:29:11,636 --> 00:29:13,168 We don't talk about it enough, 722 00:29:13,237 --> 00:29:15,604 being so close-- like, maybe a mile away 723 00:29:15,672 --> 00:29:17,639 from a prison that's had, like, 724 00:29:17,708 --> 00:29:20,509 the most executions in the country. 725 00:29:20,577 --> 00:29:23,512 They just executed, like, the youngest guy ever. 726 00:29:23,581 --> 00:29:25,781 And I went to high school with him. 727 00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:27,750 - I've never given too much thought to it 728 00:29:27,818 --> 00:29:29,552 until you hear the siren go off. 729 00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:32,955 [siren blaring] 730 00:29:33,024 --> 00:29:34,790 - So, when I was hearing it and it was, like, 731 00:29:34,859 --> 00:29:37,327 just me by myself and I heard that foghorn 732 00:29:37,395 --> 00:29:38,794 and I'm like... 733 00:29:38,863 --> 00:29:41,096 It just creeped me out, 'cause it's like, 734 00:29:41,165 --> 00:29:43,832 people are dictated by that horn, 735 00:29:43,901 --> 00:29:45,801 and it means something completely different to them 736 00:29:45,870 --> 00:29:47,102 inside that wall. 737 00:29:47,171 --> 00:29:49,706 - From what I know, there's a siren 738 00:29:49,774 --> 00:29:51,941 when they're doing guard change, 739 00:29:52,009 --> 00:29:54,076 and then they blow the siren again 740 00:29:54,145 --> 00:29:56,311 whenever they do the count, 741 00:29:56,380 --> 00:29:58,814 and then if there's a third siren, 742 00:29:58,883 --> 00:30:02,051 I think it's bad, but I'm not sure. 743 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,353 [laughs] 744 00:30:04,422 --> 00:30:06,955 - It's just an ominous sound, you know. 745 00:30:07,024 --> 00:30:09,359 So, yeah, it's freaky. It's freaky. 746 00:30:09,428 --> 00:30:11,393 [laughs] 747 00:30:11,462 --> 00:30:12,694 - I get a good vibe here. 748 00:30:12,763 --> 00:30:14,830 And I don't think you'd really get that kind of, like, vibe 749 00:30:14,899 --> 00:30:16,431 in, like, a prison, you know? 750 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:19,001 It doesn't feel like it's really that close. 751 00:30:19,070 --> 00:30:21,671 - Yeah, what a difference a few blocks makes, huh? 752 00:30:21,739 --> 00:30:23,138 - It seems very separate. 753 00:30:23,207 --> 00:30:25,141 It seems that everyone's aware of it, 754 00:30:25,209 --> 00:30:27,109 but no one wants to talk about it. 755 00:30:27,177 --> 00:30:29,712 It seems too controversial. 756 00:30:29,781 --> 00:30:31,279 - They're always like, "Oh, it's crazy 757 00:30:31,348 --> 00:30:33,616 that people are dying in there," but that's it. 758 00:30:33,684 --> 00:30:35,217 No one really-- 759 00:30:35,286 --> 00:30:38,254 It's something that I don't try to think about, 'cause... 760 00:30:38,323 --> 00:30:39,421 I don't like it. 761 00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:41,891 It's just weird, like, knowing people are dying in there. 762 00:30:41,959 --> 00:30:44,026 But I don't know. 763 00:30:44,095 --> 00:30:46,394 There's nothing I can do about it. 764 00:30:46,463 --> 00:30:48,464 - There's always been this disconnect 765 00:30:48,532 --> 00:30:49,699 between the prison system 766 00:30:49,767 --> 00:30:51,366 and a lot of the local population. 767 00:30:51,435 --> 00:30:53,335 It's kind of a Huntsville tradition, actually, 768 00:30:53,404 --> 00:30:55,070 to see what goes on at the prison 769 00:30:55,139 --> 00:30:56,338 as the state's business 770 00:30:56,407 --> 00:30:58,874 and to try not to give it any more thought 771 00:30:58,943 --> 00:31:01,147 than anyone else around the state would. 772 00:31:03,475 --> 00:31:05,415 Oh, look, there you go. 773 00:31:05,483 --> 00:31:07,550 That's a hairdo for you. 774 00:31:07,618 --> 00:31:11,721 [laughter] 775 00:31:11,789 --> 00:31:13,890 This was a great team. It really was. 776 00:31:13,958 --> 00:31:15,524 It was a good group of guys. 777 00:31:15,593 --> 00:31:17,693 There's John. 778 00:31:17,762 --> 00:31:19,356 There I am, sitting there. 779 00:31:19,424 --> 00:31:20,797 I never wanted number 1, 780 00:31:20,865 --> 00:31:23,198 but the coach saddled me with that. 781 00:31:23,267 --> 00:31:25,668 Hornets ranked at the top. Indeed, we were. 782 00:31:25,737 --> 00:31:28,671 [soft music] 783 00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:31,839 [crowd cheering] 784 00:31:31,908 --> 00:31:34,609 Several of the guys we played ball with ended up in prison, 785 00:31:34,678 --> 00:31:37,980 and I know a lot ended up working there, too. 786 00:31:38,049 --> 00:31:40,049 - Growing up here, 787 00:31:40,118 --> 00:31:42,484 unless somebody specifically asks you 788 00:31:42,553 --> 00:31:44,921 about being around prisoners, we don't even-- 789 00:31:44,989 --> 00:31:46,922 I don't--I don't even-- - Mm-mm. 790 00:31:46,991 --> 00:31:48,725 - Doesn't even come to my consciousness. 791 00:31:48,793 --> 00:31:50,392 It was nothing that I ever-- 792 00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:53,061 - Yeah. - Never even gave a thought. 793 00:31:53,130 --> 00:31:55,031 - Do you remember anybody that you hung out with 794 00:31:55,099 --> 00:31:56,132 that worked for the prison, 795 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,934 their parents worked for the prison? 796 00:31:58,002 --> 00:32:00,002 - I had a stepfather who was a prison guard 797 00:32:00,071 --> 00:32:01,403 in there somewhere. 798 00:32:01,472 --> 00:32:03,506 So that kind of put me a little closer to it 799 00:32:03,574 --> 00:32:04,907 or a little aware of it. 800 00:32:04,975 --> 00:32:06,709 It was in the house, you know. - Right. 801 00:32:06,778 --> 00:32:08,344 - It is a job. - It's a tough job. 802 00:32:08,413 --> 00:32:09,877 - Yeah. 803 00:32:09,946 --> 00:32:12,882 I remember my stepfather going from being this really fun guy 804 00:32:12,951 --> 00:32:14,816 that my mom was dating 805 00:32:14,885 --> 00:32:17,754 to the guy who was sitting in a chair across the room 806 00:32:17,822 --> 00:32:19,389 just staring at the floor. 807 00:32:19,457 --> 00:32:21,323 [tense music] 808 00:32:21,391 --> 00:32:23,887 I saw the toll it takes on the corrections officers. 809 00:32:23,956 --> 00:32:25,660 They're spending a big part of their lives 810 00:32:25,729 --> 00:32:28,564 behind bars, too, in really trying conditions. 811 00:32:28,633 --> 00:32:32,969 ♪ ♪ 812 00:32:33,037 --> 00:32:34,636 In meeting and following around Italia, 813 00:32:34,705 --> 00:32:36,806 I was trying to see if anything had changed, 814 00:32:36,875 --> 00:32:38,273 if it was any better now 815 00:32:38,342 --> 00:32:40,604 than it had been decades before 816 00:32:40,673 --> 00:32:43,546 when my stepfather was there. 817 00:32:43,614 --> 00:32:45,780 I got my answer. 818 00:32:45,849 --> 00:32:49,284 - They always kind of tell you not necessarily to be afraid, 819 00:32:49,353 --> 00:32:51,654 but just to be on your toes. 820 00:32:51,723 --> 00:32:53,216 Anything could happen. 821 00:32:53,285 --> 00:32:56,092 That's the scary part, knowing that you're agreeing to that. 822 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,394 But it's part of the job. 823 00:32:58,462 --> 00:33:01,329 For me, my top priority is to keep 824 00:33:01,398 --> 00:33:03,298 the other officers safe first. 825 00:33:03,367 --> 00:33:05,801 You know, of course, everybody has families. 826 00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:07,903 And you want them to go home. 827 00:33:07,972 --> 00:33:09,004 Morning. 828 00:33:09,073 --> 00:33:12,408 And then second, you know, keep the offenders safe. 829 00:33:12,476 --> 00:33:14,342 I talk to them like human beings. 830 00:33:14,411 --> 00:33:18,113 I always tell them, "Hey, I'm gonna respect you, 831 00:33:18,182 --> 00:33:19,815 and I want that in return." 832 00:33:19,884 --> 00:33:23,052 ♪ ♪ 833 00:33:23,121 --> 00:33:24,920 - All right, communication is key 834 00:33:24,989 --> 00:33:26,489 to running an effective facility, right? 835 00:33:26,558 --> 00:33:27,456 Okay? 836 00:33:27,525 --> 00:33:29,058 Make sure that we're talking to one another. 837 00:33:29,127 --> 00:33:30,793 Y'all been doing really good about that. 838 00:33:30,862 --> 00:33:31,827 I thank y'all. 839 00:33:31,896 --> 00:33:34,096 - We're short-staffed a lot. 840 00:33:34,164 --> 00:33:35,998 There's a lot of stress, you know, 841 00:33:36,067 --> 00:33:37,934 especially at our unit. 842 00:33:38,002 --> 00:33:39,936 You know, when I started, it was in January. 843 00:33:40,004 --> 00:33:41,837 And so, you know, you always hear, 844 00:33:41,906 --> 00:33:43,105 "Hey, just wait till summer." 845 00:33:43,173 --> 00:33:44,935 We don't have any AC. 846 00:33:45,004 --> 00:33:46,508 You know, the unit is made out of brick. 847 00:33:46,577 --> 00:33:48,577 It literally gets like a brick oven. 848 00:33:48,645 --> 00:33:53,415 I remember one day hearing that it was, like, 114 inside. 849 00:33:53,484 --> 00:33:56,518 - And it's not just offenders, people behind bars, 850 00:33:56,586 --> 00:33:59,587 who are being, you know, pushed to the brink. 851 00:33:59,656 --> 00:34:01,356 It's state employees... - Right. Right. 852 00:34:01,425 --> 00:34:03,191 - People such as yourself. - Yeah. 853 00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:05,027 - Do you think things are changing 854 00:34:05,096 --> 00:34:07,096 or has the possibility of changing? 855 00:34:07,165 --> 00:34:09,464 - Well, you know, Texas is Texas. 856 00:34:09,533 --> 00:34:12,068 It's, you know, extremely conservative. 857 00:34:12,136 --> 00:34:13,435 Like they say, you know, 858 00:34:13,503 --> 00:34:15,537 you do the crime, you do the time. 859 00:34:15,606 --> 00:34:17,339 And so I think they don't really care, 860 00:34:17,407 --> 00:34:18,540 you know, like... - Mm-hmm. 861 00:34:18,608 --> 00:34:20,676 - What kind of conditions they're in. 862 00:34:20,745 --> 00:34:23,106 - So what came first here, 863 00:34:23,175 --> 00:34:26,916 you coming to Sam Houston or getting the job at the-- 864 00:34:26,984 --> 00:34:29,251 - Prison? - At the prison? Yeah. 865 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,355 - I had no idea about corrections, to be honest. 866 00:34:33,424 --> 00:34:35,690 Nobody in my family really went to college. 867 00:34:35,759 --> 00:34:39,394 I came here to Sam Houston, and I love college, 868 00:34:39,463 --> 00:34:41,463 because it's nothing like, you know, 869 00:34:41,532 --> 00:34:43,765 high school or anything like that. 870 00:34:43,833 --> 00:34:47,903 My dream job definitely is to work for the FBI. 871 00:34:47,972 --> 00:34:52,341 ♪ ♪ 872 00:34:52,410 --> 00:34:56,278 One day, I saw the recruiters here. 873 00:34:56,346 --> 00:34:59,248 And they were like, "Hey, you could work part-time 874 00:34:59,316 --> 00:35:01,350 "and still go to school full-time, 875 00:35:01,419 --> 00:35:03,118 and we'll work with your schedule." 876 00:35:03,187 --> 00:35:05,520 That's kind of how I got into corrections. 877 00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:07,822 I kind of see it just like as a sacrifice 878 00:35:07,891 --> 00:35:12,061 that I have to keep making to improve our situation. 879 00:35:12,130 --> 00:35:14,696 My kids, sometimes I only get to see them 880 00:35:14,764 --> 00:35:18,534 right before they go to bed or sometimes not at all. 881 00:35:18,603 --> 00:35:21,270 ♪ ♪ 882 00:35:21,338 --> 00:35:23,506 - "Ev"-- - Mm-hmm, that's right. 883 00:35:23,575 --> 00:35:25,540 - "Very lots. 884 00:35:25,609 --> 00:35:29,540 "First, I love my chocolatey cake. 885 00:35:29,609 --> 00:35:31,647 I nodded my head." 886 00:35:31,715 --> 00:35:34,016 - We were really young parents. 887 00:35:34,085 --> 00:35:36,718 Our oldest son was born when I was 15. 888 00:35:36,787 --> 00:35:39,922 I want them to continue their education, 889 00:35:39,991 --> 00:35:41,558 you know, when they get older. 890 00:35:41,626 --> 00:35:43,192 - "Unsuitable"... 891 00:35:43,260 --> 00:35:45,361 - That's good enough. 892 00:35:45,429 --> 00:35:47,791 Noah, you're reading in the dark, son. 893 00:35:47,860 --> 00:35:49,932 You're gonna mess up your eyes. 894 00:35:50,001 --> 00:35:51,767 [device beeping] 895 00:35:51,836 --> 00:35:54,103 I feel a lot of sadness. 896 00:35:54,171 --> 00:35:55,337 Just the stuff-- 897 00:35:55,406 --> 00:35:57,206 you know, the stories that they tell you, 898 00:35:57,274 --> 00:35:58,841 the lives that they used to have 899 00:35:58,910 --> 00:36:01,443 before, you know, they were incarcerated, 900 00:36:01,512 --> 00:36:03,546 I feel really bad for them. 901 00:36:03,615 --> 00:36:07,382 ♪ ♪ 902 00:36:07,451 --> 00:36:11,587 You know you're there, like, clock in, clock out, 903 00:36:11,656 --> 00:36:14,489 but even though we can leave, 904 00:36:14,558 --> 00:36:16,925 it's still like I'm locked up. 905 00:36:16,994 --> 00:36:21,497 ♪ ♪ 906 00:36:21,565 --> 00:36:24,132 - I think every industry town-- 907 00:36:24,201 --> 00:36:26,135 And you think about coal-mining towns... 908 00:36:26,203 --> 00:36:27,669 - Yeah. - Or Hollywood or, you know, 909 00:36:27,737 --> 00:36:29,471 whatever, you know, the-- - Oh, yeah. 910 00:36:29,540 --> 00:36:32,274 - A culture arises because of the work. 911 00:36:32,342 --> 00:36:34,376 - We've seen the prison industry grow, 912 00:36:34,445 --> 00:36:36,678 and I guess, on one hand, it's a blessing. 913 00:36:36,747 --> 00:36:40,315 It's the local economy largely. - Right. 914 00:36:40,384 --> 00:36:42,417 - But it is a bit of a curse. 915 00:36:42,486 --> 00:36:45,724 - What does your mom think about the prisons? 916 00:36:47,491 --> 00:36:49,191 - I mean, when we moved here, I don't think 917 00:36:49,260 --> 00:36:50,626 she thought about it much at all. 918 00:36:50,694 --> 00:36:52,728 I don't remember her having an opinion 919 00:36:52,797 --> 00:36:54,758 one way or another about the prison. 920 00:36:54,827 --> 00:36:55,863 - Mm-hmm. - But, you know, 921 00:36:55,932 --> 00:36:58,200 you open your eyes, and you get to talking to people 922 00:36:58,268 --> 00:36:59,501 and know people who've been, 923 00:36:59,569 --> 00:37:01,237 you know, deeply affected by it, 924 00:37:01,305 --> 00:37:02,839 and you meet people getting out of prison, 925 00:37:02,907 --> 00:37:04,206 you eventually kind of-- 926 00:37:04,275 --> 00:37:06,075 She became a little more of an activist, 927 00:37:06,143 --> 00:37:07,843 took a more active part in that. 928 00:37:07,911 --> 00:37:12,384 I remember her just, you know, and it kind of opened my eyes. 929 00:37:13,818 --> 00:37:17,019 [soft music] 930 00:37:17,088 --> 00:37:19,755 ♪ ♪ 931 00:37:19,824 --> 00:37:21,657 - Hey, Rick. 932 00:37:21,726 --> 00:37:23,092 [both chuckling] 933 00:37:23,161 --> 00:37:25,060 - I think the last time I was out here 934 00:37:25,129 --> 00:37:27,029 was, like, '77, summer of '77. 935 00:37:27,098 --> 00:37:28,563 - I think that's probably about it. 936 00:37:28,632 --> 00:37:30,299 It's changed a bit. - How you doing? 937 00:37:30,368 --> 00:37:31,733 - Good, good. We-- 938 00:37:31,802 --> 00:37:35,065 - I remember I fell asleep out here one night I was here. 939 00:37:35,134 --> 00:37:37,239 - I think it was in that end. - Yeah. 940 00:37:37,308 --> 00:37:39,108 God, it's still here, everything. 941 00:37:39,176 --> 00:37:41,343 - Well, we've done quite a bit to it. 942 00:37:41,412 --> 00:37:43,245 - So this was where the house ended, right? 943 00:37:43,313 --> 00:37:45,080 - This is where the house ended, 944 00:37:45,149 --> 00:37:46,781 right here with this wall. 945 00:37:46,850 --> 00:37:51,120 And we've knocked all of this out over here, enlarged it, 946 00:37:51,188 --> 00:37:53,588 put the fireplace in. - Mm-hmm. 947 00:37:53,657 --> 00:37:56,525 Yeah, I think when I first met you, 948 00:37:56,593 --> 00:37:59,294 you were hanging out with my mom 949 00:37:59,363 --> 00:38:00,762 when you were playing Richard Pryor 950 00:38:00,830 --> 00:38:02,532 in my living room for the first time. 951 00:38:02,601 --> 00:38:04,232 Thank you, by the way. 952 00:38:04,301 --> 00:38:06,301 You and my mom, I think, had just started 953 00:38:06,370 --> 00:38:08,170 seeing each other-- I'm thinking fall '75. 954 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:09,938 - Well, I always thought well of her. 955 00:38:10,006 --> 00:38:14,544 And we would talk about every six months or so on the phone. 956 00:38:14,612 --> 00:38:17,380 She was a good friend. 957 00:38:17,448 --> 00:38:18,981 I came to Huntsville 958 00:38:19,050 --> 00:38:22,151 because I was interested in prison rights. 959 00:38:22,219 --> 00:38:23,953 I wanted to be a criminal lawyer. 960 00:38:24,022 --> 00:38:25,487 I was just out of law school. 961 00:38:25,556 --> 00:38:28,524 And this opportunity developed here 962 00:38:28,592 --> 00:38:31,193 with a public-defender system the prison was opening. 963 00:38:31,262 --> 00:38:32,595 - Yeah. I remember you came in. 964 00:38:32,663 --> 00:38:34,363 You were just kind of a radical. 965 00:38:34,431 --> 00:38:35,797 You had a chip on your shoulder. 966 00:38:35,866 --> 00:38:37,599 I think you saw a lot of racial injustice. 967 00:38:37,668 --> 00:38:39,401 - I came to Huntsville, and I thought 968 00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:42,671 I'd landed in Mississippi 20 years before. 969 00:38:42,739 --> 00:38:45,507 - It does feel like it's the South, the Old South. 970 00:38:45,576 --> 00:38:49,615 - It is, the prison being a plantation mentality. 971 00:38:50,882 --> 00:38:52,882 They shot through the window, and it came, 972 00:38:52,951 --> 00:38:57,380 and I left this as a memento. - Yeah. 973 00:38:57,449 --> 00:38:59,622 - There probably was 12, 15 bullet holes in the house. 974 00:38:59,691 --> 00:39:00,622 - Yeah. 975 00:39:00,691 --> 00:39:02,925 You were involved in a pretty high-profile case 976 00:39:02,993 --> 00:39:04,626 to do with Darrell Shaw. 977 00:39:04,695 --> 00:39:07,063 - Darrell Shaw was the leading ground gainer 978 00:39:07,131 --> 00:39:08,230 for the high school. 979 00:39:08,299 --> 00:39:09,565 - Darrell was the star running back 980 00:39:09,633 --> 00:39:11,166 on the high-school football team, 981 00:39:11,235 --> 00:39:12,468 and everyone knew who he was. 982 00:39:12,536 --> 00:39:14,737 Even though we weren't that many years apart, 983 00:39:14,806 --> 00:39:15,837 it felt like Darrell grew up 984 00:39:15,906 --> 00:39:18,174 in a completely different Huntsville than I had. 985 00:39:18,242 --> 00:39:20,209 - My grandparents were sharecroppers, 986 00:39:20,277 --> 00:39:22,544 picked cotton. 987 00:39:22,612 --> 00:39:24,746 They'd take us out in the cotton field, 988 00:39:24,815 --> 00:39:28,317 and they'd sit us all down, find a good shady spot. 989 00:39:28,385 --> 00:39:30,185 And one lady would be designated 990 00:39:30,254 --> 00:39:32,315 to take care of all the kids 991 00:39:32,384 --> 00:39:34,924 while everybody else was out picking cotton. 992 00:39:34,993 --> 00:39:36,959 During the day, the other grandparents 993 00:39:37,028 --> 00:39:37,960 give you a dime, 15 cents, 994 00:39:38,029 --> 00:39:40,529 and we'd go upstairs to the town theater 995 00:39:40,597 --> 00:39:43,299 and to the back door of the Texan Café 996 00:39:43,367 --> 00:39:45,733 for a hamburger or so, you know. 997 00:39:45,802 --> 00:39:48,638 - Wow, you're describing a very segregated city. 998 00:39:48,707 --> 00:39:51,407 - Yes, very segregated. 999 00:39:51,475 --> 00:39:54,042 - You were the star running back. 1000 00:39:54,111 --> 00:39:55,811 - I knew I was good. 1001 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,546 [crowd cheering] 1002 00:39:57,615 --> 00:40:00,249 The lineman coach, he told me, 1003 00:40:00,318 --> 00:40:03,555 "Darrell Shaw, you are poison." 1004 00:40:05,356 --> 00:40:06,955 Yeah, I took it as a compliment, you know, 1005 00:40:07,024 --> 00:40:10,627 kind of got to be known as outspoken, little radical guy. 1006 00:40:10,695 --> 00:40:12,489 Used to get paddlings. 1007 00:40:12,557 --> 00:40:16,565 And that was very humiliating getting those licks. 1008 00:40:16,633 --> 00:40:18,300 - Back then, they beat all of us. 1009 00:40:18,369 --> 00:40:20,136 And not surprisingly, Black students 1010 00:40:20,204 --> 00:40:23,638 were more likely to be paddled than white students. 1011 00:40:23,707 --> 00:40:26,042 I saw things that would put an adult in jail 1012 00:40:26,110 --> 00:40:27,776 on assault charges today. 1013 00:40:27,845 --> 00:40:30,579 - I think it was my junior year 1014 00:40:30,648 --> 00:40:33,048 was when I had the issues with Mr. Hooker, 1015 00:40:33,117 --> 00:40:35,918 who was assistant principal at the high school. 1016 00:40:35,986 --> 00:40:39,087 Ben Hooker was a big man, and he could hurt. 1017 00:40:39,156 --> 00:40:42,591 And I just was fed up that day when he called me 1018 00:40:42,660 --> 00:40:44,626 into his office and wanted to paddle me. 1019 00:40:44,695 --> 00:40:47,697 And I wasn't gonna take any paddles that day. 1020 00:40:47,766 --> 00:40:49,632 He told me to get off our campus. 1021 00:40:49,701 --> 00:40:51,167 "You can go home." 1022 00:40:51,235 --> 00:40:54,636 And my mom came home, 1023 00:40:54,705 --> 00:40:57,039 and I told her I'd got kicked out of school. 1024 00:40:57,107 --> 00:40:58,908 - The choice for all of us was simple. 1025 00:40:58,976 --> 00:41:00,642 If you didn't want to get paddled, 1026 00:41:00,711 --> 00:41:02,812 you could instead just take an F in the class 1027 00:41:02,881 --> 00:41:04,780 or be kicked out of school like Darrell. 1028 00:41:04,849 --> 00:41:06,815 Not much of a choice, really. 1029 00:41:06,884 --> 00:41:11,253 - The school system ran their disciplinary program 1030 00:41:11,322 --> 00:41:15,458 just like the prisons ran their disciplinary program. 1031 00:41:15,527 --> 00:41:17,994 No due process to mention. 1032 00:41:18,062 --> 00:41:20,395 Zip, zap, you're gone. 1033 00:41:20,464 --> 00:41:22,231 Darrell came over, and they talked. 1034 00:41:22,299 --> 00:41:24,533 And I said, "Well, I don't think they can do that." 1035 00:41:24,601 --> 00:41:26,769 You can't kick a school kid out of school 1036 00:41:26,838 --> 00:41:28,437 without giving him a hearing. 1037 00:41:28,505 --> 00:41:30,105 I talked to the school superintendent. 1038 00:41:30,174 --> 00:41:32,208 And they said, "Okay, we kicked him out of school 1039 00:41:32,276 --> 00:41:35,510 'cause he didn't wear socks to school one day." 1040 00:41:35,579 --> 00:41:38,581 I said, "Now, look, if we can't resolve this, 1041 00:41:38,650 --> 00:41:40,916 we're going to court over it." 1042 00:41:40,985 --> 00:41:43,853 When I said that, I'm sure they thought I meant 1043 00:41:43,921 --> 00:41:45,954 we're going to court in Walker County. 1044 00:41:46,023 --> 00:41:47,956 - Between my junior and senior year, 1045 00:41:48,025 --> 00:41:50,625 we sued Huntsville Independent School District 1046 00:41:50,694 --> 00:41:53,562 in federal court down in Houston, Texas. 1047 00:41:53,630 --> 00:41:56,064 - I'd never filed a civil-rights case in my life. 1048 00:41:56,133 --> 00:41:58,968 I didn't know which end of the pencil to hold. 1049 00:41:59,037 --> 00:42:01,103 But I was so pissed off about it. 1050 00:42:01,172 --> 00:42:04,439 And that has happened to me several times in my life. 1051 00:42:04,508 --> 00:42:06,208 - Yeah. - The situation would get 1052 00:42:06,277 --> 00:42:08,845 to where I was so pissed off about it, I'd say, 1053 00:42:08,913 --> 00:42:11,413 "We're gonna do something about this." 1054 00:42:11,482 --> 00:42:14,549 - [chuckles] - So we filed our lawsuit. 1055 00:42:14,618 --> 00:42:18,287 The school board shows up with some hot-dog lawyer 1056 00:42:18,355 --> 00:42:21,590 from a white-shoe firm that I'd never heard of before. 1057 00:42:21,658 --> 00:42:23,860 - And the superintendent was there, you know, 1058 00:42:23,928 --> 00:42:26,028 and I think Ben Hooker was even there, too. 1059 00:42:26,096 --> 00:42:28,631 They did not want me back on their campus. 1060 00:42:28,699 --> 00:42:30,899 - The judge comes out. 1061 00:42:30,968 --> 00:42:34,470 - Judge John V. Singleton-- I'll never forget that man. 1062 00:42:34,538 --> 00:42:36,872 - He says, "Gentlemen, why are we here? 1063 00:42:36,941 --> 00:42:39,141 "I don't know if Mr. Habern can prove 1064 00:42:39,209 --> 00:42:41,711 what he's pled or not," but he said, "If he can," 1065 00:42:41,779 --> 00:42:44,046 he says, "I'm gonna have to rule for him. 1066 00:42:44,115 --> 00:42:46,882 "Now, I haven't had my coffee this morning. 1067 00:42:46,951 --> 00:42:49,051 "I'm gonna go in and have a cup of coffee, 1068 00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:51,020 "and why don't you guys go out in the hall 1069 00:42:51,088 --> 00:42:52,689 "and talk for about 30 minutes, 1070 00:42:52,757 --> 00:42:54,290 "see if you can't work this out, 1071 00:42:54,358 --> 00:42:55,757 and then we'll re-adjourn?" 1072 00:42:55,826 --> 00:43:00,062 - Man, he slammed that gavel down and told them, 1073 00:43:00,131 --> 00:43:02,064 "Instead of kicking folks out of school, 1074 00:43:02,133 --> 00:43:04,200 "you ought to be doing everything you can 1075 00:43:04,268 --> 00:43:06,897 to keep a child in school." 1076 00:43:06,966 --> 00:43:08,470 - You won. 1077 00:43:08,539 --> 00:43:10,239 And I think it changed things, 1078 00:43:10,307 --> 00:43:13,109 because that paddle-happy era finally came to an end. 1079 00:43:13,177 --> 00:43:14,910 - I believe it did, too. 1080 00:43:14,978 --> 00:43:17,812 Looking on the Internet or whatever, I do Bill Habern, 1081 00:43:17,881 --> 00:43:22,021 and I see all the compliments, awards, and stuff he's got. 1082 00:43:23,287 --> 00:43:25,888 - Winning Darrell's case inspired Bill to keep going. 1083 00:43:25,956 --> 00:43:27,890 He went on to have a long and storied career 1084 00:43:27,959 --> 00:43:29,691 defending prisoners' rights. 1085 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,994 At 83 years old, he continues to fight 1086 00:43:32,063 --> 00:43:33,763 for criminal justice reform. 1087 00:43:33,832 --> 00:43:35,765 - Old Bill Habern, look at him now. 1088 00:43:35,833 --> 00:43:37,299 - I feel the same way. 1089 00:43:37,368 --> 00:43:38,868 I feel the same way. - Yeah. 1090 00:43:38,937 --> 00:43:42,404 - I think the things... 1091 00:43:42,472 --> 00:43:46,376 [voice breaking] That have been the most meaningful... 1092 00:43:46,444 --> 00:43:48,076 Pardon me. 1093 00:43:48,145 --> 00:43:50,646 [inhales deeply] 1094 00:43:50,715 --> 00:43:52,615 [sniffles, groans softly] 1095 00:43:52,683 --> 00:43:55,418 Are the ones... 1096 00:43:55,487 --> 00:43:57,586 that... 1097 00:43:57,655 --> 00:43:59,789 I don't make a penny on. - Right. 1098 00:43:59,858 --> 00:44:01,691 - They need to be done. 1099 00:44:01,759 --> 00:44:04,527 - Mm-hmm. Yeah. - That's that. 1100 00:44:04,596 --> 00:44:06,729 - Yeah, no. 1101 00:44:06,798 --> 00:44:09,893 [upbeat country music] 1102 00:44:09,962 --> 00:44:15,404 ♪ ♪ 1103 00:44:15,473 --> 00:44:16,806 - Thank you. Have a good one. 1104 00:44:16,874 --> 00:44:18,407 - Enjoy, guys. Thank you. 1105 00:44:18,476 --> 00:44:24,747 ♪ ♪ 1106 00:44:24,816 --> 00:44:28,351 - Two, three, and four. 1107 00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:32,889 ♪ ♪ 1108 00:44:32,957 --> 00:44:36,491 - I'm always amused by the radicals 1109 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,928 that still live here, you know. 1110 00:44:38,997 --> 00:44:40,362 My... 1111 00:44:40,430 --> 00:44:42,665 You know, it's like, they have an option to move, 1112 00:44:42,734 --> 00:44:44,367 but people who choose to stay... 1113 00:44:44,436 --> 00:44:45,501 - Right. 1114 00:44:45,569 --> 00:44:47,569 - And kind of be in opposition to this, 1115 00:44:47,638 --> 00:44:50,167 to the local small-town power structure 1116 00:44:50,235 --> 00:44:52,174 and the local economy, 1117 00:44:52,242 --> 00:44:54,276 they've always kind of fascinated me. 1118 00:44:54,345 --> 00:44:56,879 - You know, it's evidence of their cherishing 1119 00:44:56,948 --> 00:44:59,815 the place they come from in order to change it 1120 00:44:59,884 --> 00:45:01,816 in the way they want it to become. 1121 00:45:01,885 --> 00:45:04,119 - Yeah, I think there's an oppositional personality 1122 00:45:04,188 --> 00:45:07,293 that just wants to be butting up against power. 1123 00:45:10,228 --> 00:45:12,094 - Here's the thing-- people say, well, 1124 00:45:12,163 --> 00:45:15,030 why don't you go to Granola Land, 1125 00:45:15,099 --> 00:45:16,765 like Boulder, Colorado? - Right. 1126 00:45:16,834 --> 00:45:19,067 - Well, I lived in Boulder, Colorado, for a while. 1127 00:45:19,136 --> 00:45:21,469 There was nobody to argue with, nobody to educate. 1128 00:45:21,538 --> 00:45:23,472 You know, if you're all sitting around drinking tea 1129 00:45:23,541 --> 00:45:24,840 while the whole world is burning 1130 00:45:24,909 --> 00:45:27,676 and you're not helping put out the fire, 1131 00:45:27,745 --> 00:45:29,744 what good are you? 1132 00:45:29,813 --> 00:45:33,983 I have never been accepted in Huntsville. 1133 00:45:34,051 --> 00:45:38,524 I didn't play football, and I didn't shoot animals. 1134 00:45:40,124 --> 00:45:41,356 [bell tolls] 1135 00:45:41,425 --> 00:45:43,760 I went bird watching. 1136 00:45:43,828 --> 00:45:45,660 I love beautiful flowers. 1137 00:45:45,729 --> 00:45:47,429 All right, that's enough. [tolling echoes] 1138 00:45:47,498 --> 00:45:49,932 I'm not masculine enough for this culture. 1139 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,001 Who would think that a rusty old iron bell 1140 00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:53,703 would have a tone like that? 1141 00:45:53,771 --> 00:45:55,337 Isn't that crazy? 1142 00:45:55,406 --> 00:45:58,074 You know, most people call me asshole, son of a bitch, 1143 00:45:58,142 --> 00:46:00,843 dickhead, 'cause I'm not well-liked... 1144 00:46:00,912 --> 00:46:02,111 - [chuckles] 1145 00:46:02,180 --> 00:46:04,180 - Because I hold up growth and progress. 1146 00:46:04,248 --> 00:46:05,114 - Yeah, yeah. 1147 00:46:05,182 --> 00:46:06,648 So all this land out here, you bought. 1148 00:46:06,717 --> 00:46:08,250 I remember when this was a big development. 1149 00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:10,252 It was gonna be a big, booming community. 1150 00:46:10,321 --> 00:46:12,821 It went bankrupt at some point. - Right. 1151 00:46:12,890 --> 00:46:15,558 - And so did you buy it just to preserve the land? 1152 00:46:15,627 --> 00:46:17,020 - Absolutely. 1153 00:46:17,089 --> 00:46:21,531 ♪ ♪ 1154 00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:23,098 The fact that this is now 1155 00:46:23,167 --> 00:46:25,267 under a perpetual conservation easement 1156 00:46:25,335 --> 00:46:27,697 means it can never, ever be developed. 1157 00:46:27,766 --> 00:46:32,374 We've been able to save about 3,000 acres. 1158 00:46:32,443 --> 00:46:35,410 We have some of the rarest plants in North America, 1159 00:46:35,479 --> 00:46:39,281 more biodiversity than anywhere in Texas. 1160 00:46:39,350 --> 00:46:41,917 We have two archaeological landmarks. 1161 00:46:41,986 --> 00:46:43,653 I have a rattlesnake sanctuary, 1162 00:46:43,721 --> 00:46:45,422 red wolf sanctuary... - Yeah. 1163 00:46:45,490 --> 00:46:47,489 - Arachnid sanctuary. 1164 00:46:47,558 --> 00:46:49,992 We opened the first green cemetery in Texas, 1165 00:46:50,061 --> 00:46:51,794 third in the United States. 1166 00:46:51,863 --> 00:46:53,390 There's a grave. 1167 00:46:53,458 --> 00:46:55,030 That one's marked with that. 1168 00:46:55,099 --> 00:46:57,766 The sad thing is just the toxicity, 1169 00:46:57,835 --> 00:47:00,302 turning graveyards into toxic wastelands. 1170 00:47:00,370 --> 00:47:03,806 They use herbicides, fungicides, biocides. 1171 00:47:03,874 --> 00:47:06,642 They turn Grandma into a toxic pickle. 1172 00:47:06,711 --> 00:47:07,609 - Yeah. 1173 00:47:07,678 --> 00:47:10,246 - Spend thousands of dollars, for what? 1174 00:47:10,315 --> 00:47:14,383 ♪ ♪ 1175 00:47:14,452 --> 00:47:17,720 My mother died in 2007, 1176 00:47:17,788 --> 00:47:21,427 and my father, 2013. 1177 00:47:23,861 --> 00:47:26,098 And then here's my grave. 1178 00:47:28,065 --> 00:47:29,966 I think they'll have to make it 1179 00:47:30,034 --> 00:47:31,898 a little bit bigger. [laughter] 1180 00:47:34,506 --> 00:47:37,405 [upbeat music] 1181 00:47:37,474 --> 00:47:39,308 - George and his family got rich making 1182 00:47:39,376 --> 00:47:42,244 and selling educational films back in the day. 1183 00:47:42,313 --> 00:47:44,479 And he's used that wealth to follow his passion 1184 00:47:44,548 --> 00:47:48,778 as a conservationist, an obsessive collector... 1185 00:47:48,847 --> 00:47:50,920 - We have the world's largest collection 1186 00:47:50,989 --> 00:47:54,023 of handmade Texas furniture from the 1800s. 1187 00:47:54,092 --> 00:47:56,826 But it's also a kitsch collection. 1188 00:47:56,895 --> 00:47:59,061 We have different categories of kitsch. 1189 00:47:59,129 --> 00:48:03,633 California Raisins, golf kitsch, clown kitsch-- 1190 00:48:03,702 --> 00:48:06,735 - [laughs] Good Lord. 1191 00:48:06,804 --> 00:48:08,571 Jeez, there's a whole nother room. 1192 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,240 - This is overflow. - God. 1193 00:48:11,309 --> 00:48:14,076 - [laughs] - I'm looking-- 1194 00:48:14,145 --> 00:48:16,278 We're gonna find Rosebud in here somewhere. 1195 00:48:16,347 --> 00:48:18,748 - [laughs] Isn't this absurd? 1196 00:48:18,816 --> 00:48:21,183 Seriously. 1197 00:48:21,252 --> 00:48:23,519 - And fun things like making horror films... 1198 00:48:23,588 --> 00:48:25,053 - It's good. 1199 00:48:25,122 --> 00:48:26,755 - And starting his own church. 1200 00:48:26,824 --> 00:48:28,390 - You're hereby anointed as a deacon 1201 00:48:28,459 --> 00:48:30,760 in the Universal Ethician Church for eternity. 1202 00:48:30,829 --> 00:48:32,327 - George buys buildings 1203 00:48:32,396 --> 00:48:34,296 to keep them from being developed. 1204 00:48:34,364 --> 00:48:36,398 - This was a funeral home in 1905. 1205 00:48:36,467 --> 00:48:38,033 - And this grouping near the university 1206 00:48:38,102 --> 00:48:39,435 has been deemed Russellville, 1207 00:48:39,503 --> 00:48:42,237 which is really just a series of funky museums 1208 00:48:42,306 --> 00:48:43,973 crammed with all of his archaeological 1209 00:48:44,041 --> 00:48:45,040 and art collections. 1210 00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:46,809 - This is a mammoth tooth. 1211 00:48:46,878 --> 00:48:49,344 ♪ ♪ 1212 00:48:49,413 --> 00:48:51,346 It's Museum of Genocide and Atrocities 1213 00:48:51,415 --> 00:48:53,115 Perpetrated Against Native Americans 1214 00:48:53,183 --> 00:48:55,251 and Other Native Peoples. - Right. 1215 00:48:55,319 --> 00:48:57,887 - Columbus was responsible for a genocidal campaign 1216 00:48:57,955 --> 00:49:00,384 that murdered more Native Americans 1217 00:49:00,453 --> 00:49:02,024 than Hitler killed. 1218 00:49:02,093 --> 00:49:03,959 So this is our rogues gallery, 1219 00:49:04,028 --> 00:49:07,129 and there are many more rogues than this. 1220 00:49:07,198 --> 00:49:10,499 These are two of the most evil men 1221 00:49:10,567 --> 00:49:12,569 in the history of the United States. 1222 00:49:12,637 --> 00:49:14,770 Andrew Jackson--oh, my gosh, 1223 00:49:14,839 --> 00:49:18,841 Trail of Tears, horror stories. 1224 00:49:18,910 --> 00:49:20,309 And we just go on and on. 1225 00:49:20,378 --> 00:49:23,145 - What concerns me here, George--is this the future? 1226 00:49:23,214 --> 00:49:24,747 You got-- - Yeah, that's the future. 1227 00:49:24,816 --> 00:49:26,081 - Do teachers bring their students 1228 00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:27,249 over here for field trips? 1229 00:49:27,317 --> 00:49:28,917 - No. No. No, they don't like-- 1230 00:49:28,986 --> 00:49:30,418 any time I come up with an idea 1231 00:49:30,487 --> 00:49:31,987 that will make Huntsville better... 1232 00:49:32,056 --> 00:49:33,655 - Yeah. [chuckles] - Then they shoot it down. 1233 00:49:33,724 --> 00:49:35,958 - Yeah, I don't think they like you, George. 1234 00:49:36,026 --> 00:49:37,526 Taking an unpopular stance 1235 00:49:37,595 --> 00:49:39,696 goes back centuries in this town. 1236 00:49:39,764 --> 00:49:40,829 - This is Sam Houston. 1237 00:49:40,898 --> 00:49:42,965 And he's one of my heroes. - Yeah. 1238 00:49:43,034 --> 00:49:45,100 - He represents... 1239 00:49:45,169 --> 00:49:48,370 good in the history of Texas. 1240 00:49:48,439 --> 00:49:50,873 - As governor of Texas when the Civil War broke out, 1241 00:49:50,942 --> 00:49:54,343 he opposed Texas joining the Confederacy. 1242 00:49:54,411 --> 00:49:58,380 - He refused to take the oath to the Confederacy. 1243 00:49:58,449 --> 00:50:00,950 And so he was thrown out of the governor's office. 1244 00:50:01,018 --> 00:50:03,852 And it was the worst mistake Texas ever made. 1245 00:50:03,921 --> 00:50:05,921 - Yeah. We're still paying for it. 1246 00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:09,158 - Yeah. - History proves him so right. 1247 00:50:09,226 --> 00:50:10,826 So he retires to Huntsville, 1248 00:50:10,895 --> 00:50:12,527 where we are now. - Right. 1249 00:50:12,596 --> 00:50:15,930 - And there was talk of this maybe being the state capital. 1250 00:50:15,999 --> 00:50:19,902 But they decided to throw that to Stephen F. Austin, right? 1251 00:50:19,970 --> 00:50:22,839 - Yeah. - Or to Central Texas. 1252 00:50:22,907 --> 00:50:24,372 - Right. - And in lieu of-- 1253 00:50:24,441 --> 00:50:28,376 But they still--they gave Sam some state government 1254 00:50:28,445 --> 00:50:31,246 for his local economy, the prison system. 1255 00:50:31,315 --> 00:50:32,915 - The prison system. 1256 00:50:32,984 --> 00:50:36,351 ♪ ♪ 1257 00:50:36,420 --> 00:50:38,816 - Trey, did you know what a badass your dad was? 1258 00:50:38,884 --> 00:50:40,522 - [laughing] - Have you heard stories? 1259 00:50:40,590 --> 00:50:42,391 Did he grow up telling you stories-- 1260 00:50:42,459 --> 00:50:44,359 old war stories about how good he was and stuff? 1261 00:50:44,428 --> 00:50:45,961 - Yeah. - Dads are usually pretty good 1262 00:50:46,030 --> 00:50:46,962 at that. 1263 00:50:47,031 --> 00:50:48,397 - Well, yeah. 1264 00:50:48,466 --> 00:50:51,867 This is where we resided for five years maybe. 1265 00:50:51,936 --> 00:50:52,968 - Mm-hmm. 1266 00:50:53,037 --> 00:50:55,070 I knew Ed from high school. 1267 00:50:55,139 --> 00:50:56,438 He was a senior when I was a freshman, 1268 00:50:56,506 --> 00:50:59,542 a kind of big man on campus you naturally looked up to. 1269 00:50:59,611 --> 00:51:01,410 So TDCJ owns these-- 1270 00:51:01,479 --> 00:51:03,245 they kind of own the neighborhood, don't they? 1271 00:51:03,313 --> 00:51:07,253 - Yeah, they own this whole block almost. 1272 00:51:08,652 --> 00:51:10,385 You know, I'm second generation. 1273 00:51:10,454 --> 00:51:12,321 My father was an industrial supervisor. 1274 00:51:12,389 --> 00:51:14,456 So, you know, I've been coming in and out of prison 1275 00:51:14,524 --> 00:51:17,592 since I got my first haircut there when I was 12. 1276 00:51:17,661 --> 00:51:20,395 I really didn't get exposed to a lot of racism 1277 00:51:20,464 --> 00:51:22,197 till I went to work at the prison. 1278 00:51:22,266 --> 00:51:25,301 And I guess it was from that whole experience-- 1279 00:51:25,369 --> 00:51:30,039 that's what made me want to do more in the system. 1280 00:51:30,107 --> 00:51:32,174 Back in the '70's when I went to work, 1281 00:51:32,243 --> 00:51:35,143 there was not a lot of people that looked like me... 1282 00:51:35,212 --> 00:51:36,946 - Right. - That worked in the prison. 1283 00:51:37,015 --> 00:51:39,581 I assumed that the warden was God. 1284 00:51:39,650 --> 00:51:42,017 He ruled the world because he ruled mine. 1285 00:51:42,086 --> 00:51:45,221 I never could see myself as a warden, 1286 00:51:45,289 --> 00:51:48,224 the main reason being, at that time, 1287 00:51:48,292 --> 00:51:50,225 I could never see a Black... 1288 00:51:50,294 --> 00:51:51,493 - Right. - Being a warden. 1289 00:51:51,561 --> 00:51:53,156 - Had there been-- I don't remember-- 1290 00:51:53,225 --> 00:51:54,629 It seems like all the authority figures, to me, 1291 00:51:54,698 --> 00:51:56,598 it seemed like they were all white. 1292 00:51:56,667 --> 00:51:58,868 - They were. At that time, they were. 1293 00:51:58,937 --> 00:52:02,738 I was promoted to warden in 1990. 1294 00:52:02,807 --> 00:52:07,443 And from 1990 to '95, 1295 00:52:07,511 --> 00:52:10,713 the prison system doubled in size. 1296 00:52:10,782 --> 00:52:14,216 '95, I became region one director. 1297 00:52:14,285 --> 00:52:17,153 You know, it came with a lot of responsibility. 1298 00:52:17,221 --> 00:52:18,888 We told our employees, you know, 1299 00:52:18,957 --> 00:52:20,222 leave it at the gate. - Right. 1300 00:52:20,291 --> 00:52:23,491 - Go home to your families, enjoy your families. 1301 00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,461 But that's something I know the higher up I got, 1302 00:52:26,530 --> 00:52:29,231 you never left it at the gate. 1303 00:52:29,300 --> 00:52:31,233 The job consumed you. 1304 00:52:31,302 --> 00:52:33,703 And I lived the job. 1305 00:52:33,772 --> 00:52:35,737 - Mm-hmm. 1306 00:52:35,806 --> 00:52:38,306 - After the executions, I would make this-- 1307 00:52:38,375 --> 00:52:40,743 This was a long walk. - Ooh, man. 1308 00:52:40,812 --> 00:52:42,511 - Yeah. Yeah. - Yeah. 1309 00:52:42,580 --> 00:52:45,114 - Of course, nothing was said about what happened. 1310 00:52:45,183 --> 00:52:48,050 Life just carried on as usual. - Yeah. 1311 00:52:48,119 --> 00:52:50,552 - Did you an execution day from another? 1312 00:52:50,621 --> 00:52:52,687 - Only if it was just because my mom would say, 1313 00:52:52,756 --> 00:52:54,490 "Oh, yeah, your dad's got an execution at 6:00," 1314 00:52:54,558 --> 00:52:56,458 and then, snap, like it was never-- 1315 00:52:56,527 --> 00:52:58,527 - They used to block the street. 1316 00:52:58,595 --> 00:53:00,529 They still block the street down there. 1317 00:53:00,597 --> 00:53:04,099 - Yeah, through all that. - And they pull just a... 1318 00:53:04,168 --> 00:53:05,900 a tape across there. 1319 00:53:05,969 --> 00:53:08,703 - Yeah, 'cause certain executions really stand out. 1320 00:53:08,772 --> 00:53:10,606 - You had Karla Faye Tucker and Gary Graham. 1321 00:53:10,675 --> 00:53:11,606 - Yeah. - You have the KKK 1322 00:53:11,675 --> 00:53:13,541 and the Black Panthers outside your house. 1323 00:53:13,610 --> 00:53:15,311 - Which side was the Klan on, and which side was the-- 1324 00:53:15,380 --> 00:53:16,412 Was it right here? 1325 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:17,980 - The new Black Panthers was on that end. 1326 00:53:18,049 --> 00:53:19,148 - Mm-hmm. 1327 00:53:19,217 --> 00:53:21,117 - And the Klan was right here in front of our house. 1328 00:53:21,185 --> 00:53:22,684 - House, yeah. 1329 00:53:22,752 --> 00:53:24,820 - You all was talking that big shit when we walked over here. 1330 00:53:24,889 --> 00:53:26,088 Talk that shit now. 1331 00:53:26,157 --> 00:53:27,923 That's what I thought, with your bad ass. 1332 00:53:27,992 --> 00:53:31,160 - I sent Trey and his mother out to my parents' home. 1333 00:53:31,229 --> 00:53:32,294 - For that. 1334 00:53:32,362 --> 00:53:34,430 That's a little scary. 1335 00:53:34,498 --> 00:53:36,765 - I remember my first execution. 1336 00:53:36,834 --> 00:53:41,103 I remember the feeling that I had when... 1337 00:53:41,172 --> 00:53:44,306 I saw this guy one minute, and he was fine, 1338 00:53:44,375 --> 00:53:47,944 and the next minute, he was-- he was--he was deceased. 1339 00:53:48,012 --> 00:53:50,880 So it had a profound impact on me. 1340 00:53:50,949 --> 00:53:53,783 I actually went to a minister 1341 00:53:53,852 --> 00:53:57,385 and talked to him about-- 1342 00:53:57,454 --> 00:53:59,955 talked to him about, okay, how do you... 1343 00:54:00,024 --> 00:54:02,653 You know, I wanted to make sure my soul wasn't going 1344 00:54:02,722 --> 00:54:03,726 to hell. - Yeah. 1345 00:54:03,795 --> 00:54:07,562 - He basically told me that, you know... 1346 00:54:07,631 --> 00:54:10,398 mankind is supposed to obey the laws of the land, 1347 00:54:10,467 --> 00:54:15,171 and if the laws of the land is execution 1348 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,906 and that is your job, 1349 00:54:17,975 --> 00:54:20,643 then so be it. 1350 00:54:20,712 --> 00:54:22,679 Uh... 1351 00:54:22,747 --> 00:54:25,180 I guess from a spiritual standpoint, 1352 00:54:25,249 --> 00:54:27,684 that's how I dealt with it. - Right. 1353 00:54:27,752 --> 00:54:31,453 - It became the job. It was the job. 1354 00:54:31,522 --> 00:54:33,222 - Do you think more poor people are sentenced 1355 00:54:33,291 --> 00:54:34,957 to death than rich people? - Yes, sir. 1356 00:54:35,026 --> 00:54:36,491 - Can you show us-- 1357 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,994 You cannot give no exact time 1358 00:54:39,063 --> 00:54:42,901 or place where a rich man has been sentenced to death. 1359 00:54:45,669 --> 00:54:47,635 - You think there's discrimination 1360 00:54:47,704 --> 00:54:49,637 in the death sentence? - It really is. It really is. 1361 00:54:49,706 --> 00:54:51,940 - Look for yourself, sir. - It really is. 1362 00:54:52,009 --> 00:54:54,476 - I haven't seen nobody else but colored people 1363 00:54:54,544 --> 00:54:58,113 and one Jew boy and a white girl 1364 00:54:58,182 --> 00:55:00,683 that I know of that I've seen. 1365 00:55:00,752 --> 00:55:02,951 - The state of Texas has electrocuted 1366 00:55:03,020 --> 00:55:07,622 a total of 357 men. 1367 00:55:07,691 --> 00:55:09,992 - The death-penalty debate isn't new around here. 1368 00:55:10,061 --> 00:55:12,895 - I favor capital punishment because I think 1369 00:55:12,964 --> 00:55:15,125 it is a strong deterrent. 1370 00:55:15,194 --> 00:55:16,798 - It has to be admitted that the Bible 1371 00:55:16,867 --> 00:55:20,602 does recognize the enforcement of capital punishment. 1372 00:55:20,670 --> 00:55:22,570 But if we follow this to the letter, 1373 00:55:22,639 --> 00:55:26,308 then we would have to say that the Bible also says 1374 00:55:26,377 --> 00:55:28,578 that we must use capital punishment 1375 00:55:28,646 --> 00:55:30,880 for striking a parent 1376 00:55:30,949 --> 00:55:34,550 or for witchcraft or for breaking the Sabbath. 1377 00:55:34,618 --> 00:55:36,819 - Huntsville newspaperman Don Reid 1378 00:55:36,888 --> 00:55:39,054 has witnessed every execution held here 1379 00:55:39,123 --> 00:55:41,724 in the past 18 years. 1380 00:55:41,792 --> 00:55:44,927 - Do you think all of them were guilty? 1381 00:55:44,995 --> 00:55:46,494 - No, I do not. 1382 00:55:46,563 --> 00:55:51,433 Eight to ten, in my opinion, were innocent. 1383 00:55:51,502 --> 00:55:53,835 - In the cases where you saw executed people 1384 00:55:53,904 --> 00:55:56,934 you thought were innocent, did you try to stop it? 1385 00:55:57,002 --> 00:55:58,706 - I tried the best I could. 1386 00:55:58,775 --> 00:56:00,810 - Have ever saved anybody from the electric chair? 1387 00:56:00,878 --> 00:56:02,011 - Yes, I have. 1388 00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:03,412 - How many? - Two. 1389 00:56:03,481 --> 00:56:05,715 [soft music] 1390 00:56:05,783 --> 00:56:08,484 - By killing us, will not solve anything. 1391 00:56:08,552 --> 00:56:11,454 It will only add to their own sin. 1392 00:56:11,523 --> 00:56:13,322 - Damnation, that's right. 1393 00:56:13,391 --> 00:56:18,593 ♪ ♪ 1394 00:56:18,662 --> 00:56:20,562 - Another guy I was in high school with 1395 00:56:20,631 --> 00:56:22,432 who played football but was a year behind me 1396 00:56:22,500 --> 00:56:23,765 was Fred Allen. 1397 00:56:23,833 --> 00:56:26,168 He ended up about as close to the executions 1398 00:56:26,237 --> 00:56:27,970 as you could get. 1399 00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:30,467 He put in 16 years at the Huntsville Unit 1400 00:56:30,535 --> 00:56:33,142 and a lot of it as a member of the tie-down team, 1401 00:56:33,211 --> 00:56:35,878 where he oversaw 130 executions. 1402 00:56:35,946 --> 00:56:38,080 - Going through school, you know, 1403 00:56:38,149 --> 00:56:39,381 I didn't even pay no attention 1404 00:56:39,450 --> 00:56:41,016 to what was going on with the prison. 1405 00:56:41,085 --> 00:56:44,486 I knew when I graduated, I knew I wanted to get a job. 1406 00:56:44,555 --> 00:56:45,888 I wanted to go make some money. 1407 00:56:45,957 --> 00:56:48,590 - So I was living in Houston, working offshore 1408 00:56:48,658 --> 00:56:51,727 when they started up the executions again. 1409 00:56:51,796 --> 00:56:53,496 So do you remember having an opinion 1410 00:56:53,564 --> 00:56:55,001 about that back then? 1411 00:56:57,401 --> 00:56:59,401 - My opinion on that was, is, you know, 1412 00:56:59,469 --> 00:57:01,437 if it's gonna be the law, let's do it. 1413 00:57:01,505 --> 00:57:06,174 And I'm taking care of the last part of the law. 1414 00:57:06,243 --> 00:57:10,882 But let's do it humanely and, you know, with integrity. 1415 00:57:12,983 --> 00:57:15,051 I sat back there with those individuals 1416 00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:17,419 eight, nine, ten hours... 1417 00:57:17,488 --> 00:57:18,954 before we would even execute them. 1418 00:57:19,023 --> 00:57:21,994 So, I mean, I would get to even know the person. 1419 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,794 It's like, "What you need?" 1420 00:57:25,863 --> 00:57:27,730 "Hey, man, can I have a cup of coffee?" 1421 00:57:27,799 --> 00:57:29,264 "Yeah, I'll get you a cup of coffee. 1422 00:57:29,333 --> 00:57:30,365 What else you want, doughnut?" 1423 00:57:30,434 --> 00:57:32,301 You know, I mean, I had those individuals-- 1424 00:57:32,369 --> 00:57:34,070 "Hey, you know how to play checkers?" 1425 00:57:34,138 --> 00:57:35,370 "Yeah, I can play checkers." 1426 00:57:35,439 --> 00:57:36,905 "How about chess?" "I can play ch--" 1427 00:57:36,974 --> 00:57:38,940 And I'm playing chess with this son of a gun, 1428 00:57:39,009 --> 00:57:42,344 you know, because we got eight hours to burn, you know. 1429 00:57:42,413 --> 00:57:44,046 And then I got the other ones back there 1430 00:57:44,114 --> 00:57:45,814 that they want to talk about their football team, 1431 00:57:45,883 --> 00:57:47,210 you know. 1432 00:57:47,279 --> 00:57:48,650 "Oh, I want to talk about Dallas." 1433 00:57:48,719 --> 00:57:50,252 And I said, "I don't really want to talk 1434 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:51,319 "about Dallas too much 1435 00:57:51,388 --> 00:57:52,588 "since I'm a Washington Redskin fan, 1436 00:57:52,657 --> 00:57:54,990 "but let's talk, you know. 1437 00:57:55,059 --> 00:57:56,892 Yeah, let's talk." 1438 00:57:56,961 --> 00:57:59,128 ♪ ♪ 1439 00:57:59,196 --> 00:58:01,297 This is the quietest time they've ever had. 1440 00:58:01,366 --> 00:58:02,564 It's quiet. 1441 00:58:02,633 --> 00:58:04,600 You know, I asked 'em, "You want me to turn on the radio?" 1442 00:58:04,668 --> 00:58:06,869 "I heard enough noise, you know. 1443 00:58:06,938 --> 00:58:10,672 I just enjoy talking to y'all." 1444 00:58:10,740 --> 00:58:13,876 A lot of them, they're just ready to... 1445 00:58:13,944 --> 00:58:17,814 they were just ready, you know. 1446 00:58:17,882 --> 00:58:19,649 And then when I unlocked the door, 1447 00:58:19,717 --> 00:58:21,253 I'd tell 'em to follow me. 1448 00:58:23,053 --> 00:58:27,023 And it wouldn't take 10, 15 steps to get to the gurney. 1449 00:58:27,091 --> 00:58:28,791 And then when I get to the gurney, 1450 00:58:28,860 --> 00:58:30,959 I tell them to hop up on the gurney. 1451 00:58:31,028 --> 00:58:33,128 And when he hops up on the gurney, 1452 00:58:33,197 --> 00:58:37,366 all five of us have different assigned straps, 1453 00:58:37,434 --> 00:58:40,803 and I always took care of the left leg. 1454 00:58:40,872 --> 00:58:43,472 Anyways, we'd strap 'em all down, 1455 00:58:43,541 --> 00:58:46,542 and then we would all exit. 1456 00:58:46,610 --> 00:58:49,312 The door would close just a little bit. 1457 00:58:49,381 --> 00:58:52,614 ♪ ♪ 1458 00:58:52,682 --> 00:58:55,779 Then they would escort all the witnesses in... 1459 00:58:55,848 --> 00:58:57,987 ♪ ♪ 1460 00:58:58,056 --> 00:59:00,189 On the other side. 1461 00:59:00,257 --> 00:59:04,593 One of the wardens would take his glasses off to start. 1462 00:59:04,662 --> 00:59:08,030 And within... 1463 00:59:08,098 --> 00:59:11,995 a few seconds, you'll hear him cough, 1464 00:59:12,064 --> 00:59:13,202 and that's about it. 1465 00:59:13,271 --> 00:59:14,637 That's all you're gonna hear. 1466 00:59:14,706 --> 00:59:18,240 And then he's over with. 1467 00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:22,612 As soon as that's done, the doctor's out... 1468 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:24,647 all the witnesses leave. 1469 00:59:24,716 --> 00:59:26,415 And as soon as they leave, 1470 00:59:26,484 --> 00:59:29,051 then the funeral home comes in there with their gurney. 1471 00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,688 Then we go back in there and unstrap him 1472 00:59:32,757 --> 00:59:35,157 and pick him up, put him on a gurney. 1473 00:59:35,225 --> 00:59:38,594 [solemn music] 1474 00:59:38,662 --> 00:59:41,024 Go home, drink a couple cold beers, 1475 00:59:41,093 --> 00:59:44,633 and try to unwind. 1476 00:59:44,702 --> 00:59:47,937 But then when you do and when you do lay down, 1477 00:59:48,006 --> 00:59:50,606 you know, when you have something traumatic 1478 00:59:50,674 --> 00:59:53,275 that you're dealing with all day long, 1479 00:59:53,343 --> 00:59:56,011 eight, nine, ten hours, even though you lay down, 1480 00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:57,914 that stuff just goes through your brain, 1481 00:59:57,982 --> 01:00:00,750 what happened all day long, you know. 1482 01:00:00,819 --> 01:00:03,319 But the main thing is the next day, 1483 01:00:03,388 --> 01:00:05,388 get up and get on. 1484 01:00:05,457 --> 01:00:06,858 Forget about it. 1485 01:00:08,292 --> 01:00:10,726 And you keep on doing that, and you keep on doing that, 1486 01:00:10,795 --> 01:00:13,857 and eventually you're gonna break. 1487 01:00:13,926 --> 01:00:18,166 ♪ ♪ 1488 01:00:18,235 --> 01:00:20,736 Once it finally hit me was at Karla Faye. 1489 01:00:20,804 --> 01:00:22,838 - Karla Faye Tucker was convicted and sentenced 1490 01:00:22,907 --> 01:00:24,774 by a jury of her peers. 1491 01:00:24,842 --> 01:00:27,209 Therefore, I will not grant 1492 01:00:27,277 --> 01:00:29,211 a 30-day stay. 1493 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,514 - What she did back in her younger--that was-- 1494 01:00:32,583 --> 01:00:35,517 that was horrible, totally horrible. 1495 01:00:35,586 --> 01:00:39,756 But what was it, 15, 16, 18 years later? 1496 01:00:39,824 --> 01:00:42,592 Now you got a... 1497 01:00:42,661 --> 01:00:45,994 more mature woman that... 1498 01:00:46,063 --> 01:00:48,898 [clears throat] Could've been more beneficial 1499 01:00:48,966 --> 01:00:52,802 to the other younger ladies in the penitentiary, 1500 01:00:52,870 --> 01:00:54,669 talking to them and counseling them, 1501 01:00:54,738 --> 01:00:56,372 saying, "Hey, you can change your life," 1502 01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:57,940 before they do something. 1503 01:00:58,009 --> 01:01:00,710 That's the way I looked at it. 1504 01:01:00,778 --> 01:01:02,778 One of the things she said to me 1505 01:01:02,847 --> 01:01:04,579 probably two hours into it, 1506 01:01:04,648 --> 01:01:08,584 she asked, "Captain Allen, you doing okay?" 1507 01:01:08,653 --> 01:01:09,885 And I looked at her. 1508 01:01:09,954 --> 01:01:11,286 I said, "I'm fine." 1509 01:01:11,355 --> 01:01:13,622 She goes, "I want to make sure you're okay." 1510 01:01:13,691 --> 01:01:16,158 I said, "I'm here for you. 1511 01:01:16,227 --> 01:01:18,728 I want to make sure you're okay, you know." 1512 01:01:18,797 --> 01:01:20,129 "Oh, I am." 1513 01:01:20,197 --> 01:01:21,333 I said, "Okay." 1514 01:01:23,133 --> 01:01:25,902 Two days afterwards, I'm sitting in my shop, 1515 01:01:25,970 --> 01:01:28,165 and that's when I broke. 1516 01:01:28,233 --> 01:01:30,605 I just--I had no emo-- 1517 01:01:30,674 --> 01:01:34,109 I couldn't control my emotions at all. 1518 01:01:34,178 --> 01:01:36,879 I called Chaplain Pickett, and I said, 1519 01:01:36,947 --> 01:01:41,116 "You need to come see me, 'cause I'm just"-- 1520 01:01:41,185 --> 01:01:42,685 I was a mess. 1521 01:01:42,754 --> 01:01:44,920 He said, "You take a vase. 1522 01:01:44,989 --> 01:01:47,723 "You put a drop of water in it. 1523 01:01:47,792 --> 01:01:49,819 "Every drop of water is your execution. 1524 01:01:49,888 --> 01:01:52,429 "Eventually you're gonna put that last drop of water in, 1525 01:01:52,497 --> 01:01:53,596 "it's gonna overfill. 1526 01:01:53,664 --> 01:01:55,197 That means you're done." 1527 01:01:55,266 --> 01:01:57,266 And I said, "You're right," and the next day, 1528 01:01:57,334 --> 01:01:59,568 I went in the warden's office, said, "I can't do it no more." 1529 01:01:59,636 --> 01:02:01,037 - If someone were to ask you today 1530 01:02:01,105 --> 01:02:02,739 what you feel about the death penalty, 1531 01:02:02,807 --> 01:02:04,606 what do you say? - I say--[clears throat] 1532 01:02:04,675 --> 01:02:07,809 I'm definitely against it, period. 1533 01:02:07,878 --> 01:02:11,680 And that took me a while. It took me a while to do it. 1534 01:02:11,749 --> 01:02:14,350 I went from the point of being pro-- 1535 01:02:14,418 --> 01:02:15,785 this is what the law is-- 1536 01:02:15,853 --> 01:02:18,954 to where, you know, this ain't right. 1537 01:02:19,023 --> 01:02:22,258 You ain't got a right to take nobody's life, period. 1538 01:02:22,326 --> 01:02:25,928 It should just be completely life without parole, 1539 01:02:25,997 --> 01:02:27,863 because that's the worst sentence 1540 01:02:27,932 --> 01:02:30,166 that an individual could have. 1541 01:02:30,235 --> 01:02:32,700 ♪ ♪ 1542 01:02:32,769 --> 01:02:34,731 It is a different kind of generation. 1543 01:02:34,799 --> 01:02:37,873 40 years ago, you still had that Wild West, 1544 01:02:37,942 --> 01:02:41,077 Texas, you know, mentality. 1545 01:02:41,145 --> 01:02:43,012 - Do you think we'd change people's opinion 1546 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:44,212 if they knew for sure 1547 01:02:44,281 --> 01:02:48,050 Texas had executed someone innocent? 1548 01:02:48,118 --> 01:02:50,086 - It should wake some people up. 1549 01:02:50,154 --> 01:02:52,955 We've had some people get off of death row 1550 01:02:53,024 --> 01:02:57,026 and actually got paroled back out because of DNA. 1551 01:02:57,095 --> 01:02:59,061 So, I mean, it's there. 1552 01:02:59,130 --> 01:03:01,731 ♪ ♪ 1553 01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,265 It gives you the opportunity 1554 01:03:03,334 --> 01:03:05,828 to find out if we got the right one. 1555 01:03:05,897 --> 01:03:08,470 If you do, he's in there for the rest of his life. 1556 01:03:08,538 --> 01:03:09,872 If you find out something, 1557 01:03:09,941 --> 01:03:13,275 you got an opportunity to make it right. 1558 01:03:13,343 --> 01:03:15,411 After the execution, you don't have the opportunity 1559 01:03:15,479 --> 01:03:17,679 to make it right anymore. 1560 01:03:17,748 --> 01:03:20,982 - Texas is about to kill an innocent man. 1561 01:03:21,051 --> 01:03:24,286 - Well, he's said to be very quiet and calm this evening. 1562 01:03:24,355 --> 01:03:27,790 He's surrounded by a chaplain and a spiritual advisor. 1563 01:03:27,859 --> 01:03:29,719 - Yes, I am expecting a miracle. 1564 01:03:29,788 --> 01:03:32,898 I am expecting God to move the hearts of men. 1565 01:03:37,168 --> 01:03:38,801 - That leads some to believe 1566 01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:41,103 that Texas could break its own record... 1567 01:03:41,172 --> 01:03:43,038 - The air was thick with this intensity, 1568 01:03:43,107 --> 01:03:45,340 and I'm thinking, "The state's about to do it. 1569 01:03:45,409 --> 01:03:47,446 They're actually going through with this." 1570 01:03:49,113 --> 01:03:51,981 Then I happened to look over at a national-news guy 1571 01:03:52,049 --> 01:03:53,615 who's on the phone. 1572 01:03:53,683 --> 01:03:56,619 He looks over and says, "They just granted a stay." 1573 01:03:56,688 --> 01:03:58,120 - Oh, Lord. - He got a stay? 1574 01:03:58,189 --> 01:03:59,888 - Now, now-- - We don't know. 1575 01:03:59,957 --> 01:04:02,058 both: We don't know yet. - Is it for real, though? 1576 01:04:02,126 --> 01:04:03,726 - Did it come over the wire? Did it come over the wire? 1577 01:04:03,795 --> 01:04:04,993 - Yes. - Oh, my God. 1578 01:04:05,062 --> 01:04:06,295 - Yeah, it's coming across the wire. 1579 01:04:06,363 --> 01:04:08,731 - Thank you, Lord. Hallelujah. Whoo! 1580 01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:10,366 [shouts indistinctly] Thank you. 1581 01:04:10,435 --> 01:04:12,134 Whoo. Whoo! 1582 01:04:12,202 --> 01:04:13,703 Thank you, Lord. Hallelujah. 1583 01:04:13,771 --> 01:04:15,471 Whoo-hoo! Yeah! 1584 01:04:15,540 --> 01:04:16,706 Whoo! 1585 01:04:16,774 --> 01:04:19,375 [squealing, laughing] 1586 01:04:19,444 --> 01:04:20,476 - Stand back. 1587 01:04:20,545 --> 01:04:22,044 - Whoo! - For real? 1588 01:04:22,112 --> 01:04:24,647 It's for real? Are you for real? 1589 01:04:24,716 --> 01:04:26,649 - Whoo! Hallelujah! 1590 01:04:26,718 --> 01:04:28,578 Whoo! Glory to God. 1591 01:04:28,647 --> 01:04:31,288 Ooh, God, there is some justice. 1592 01:04:31,356 --> 01:04:32,822 [laughs] Whoo! 1593 01:04:32,891 --> 01:04:34,317 Hallelujah. 1594 01:04:34,386 --> 01:04:37,293 [indistinct chatter] 1595 01:04:37,362 --> 01:04:40,296 [soft music] 1596 01:04:40,365 --> 01:04:47,339 ♪ ♪ 1597 01:04:51,575 --> 01:04:54,777 - I do want to say this about the victim's family. 1598 01:04:54,845 --> 01:04:56,913 My heart goes out for them. 1599 01:04:56,981 --> 01:04:59,381 They suffered a great loss. 1600 01:04:59,450 --> 01:05:02,284 And we are praying that justice will prevail. 1601 01:05:02,352 --> 01:05:05,187 - Whoo! Thank you. Thank you. 1602 01:05:05,256 --> 01:05:08,190 I said a prayer. Hallelujah. 1603 01:05:08,258 --> 01:05:11,527 Glory, hallelujah. Whoo. 1604 01:05:11,595 --> 01:05:13,962 - It's so bittersweet looking at this footage 1605 01:05:14,031 --> 01:05:16,165 of Delma's family celebrating. 1606 01:05:16,234 --> 01:05:18,562 Yes, his life was spared that day 1607 01:05:18,631 --> 01:05:21,070 by a 7-2 Supreme Court ruling, 1608 01:05:21,138 --> 01:05:23,540 but a state panel eventually voted 2-1 1609 01:05:23,608 --> 01:05:24,907 to not release him, 1610 01:05:24,975 --> 01:05:26,909 so he's still behind bars today, 1611 01:05:26,978 --> 01:05:29,345 and their suffering has never ended. 1612 01:05:29,414 --> 01:05:32,881 ♪ ♪ 1613 01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:34,684 Knowing what I know now, it was so naive 1614 01:05:34,752 --> 01:05:36,318 to even think that showing 1615 01:05:36,386 --> 01:05:38,053 we'd executed an innocent person 1616 01:05:38,122 --> 01:05:39,722 would have changed anything. 1617 01:05:39,791 --> 01:05:41,057 Why? 1618 01:05:41,125 --> 01:05:42,424 'Cause the very next year, 1619 01:05:42,492 --> 01:05:46,262 Texas did execute an innocent person. 1620 01:05:46,330 --> 01:05:49,031 But as long as the state gets to be its own jury, 1621 01:05:49,100 --> 01:05:51,067 it will never officially acknowledge it 1622 01:05:51,135 --> 01:05:53,169 or deal with it honestly. 1623 01:05:53,237 --> 01:05:55,604 Some states impose moratoriums on the death penalty 1624 01:05:55,672 --> 01:05:58,173 when they find a lot of wrongful convictions 1625 01:05:58,242 --> 01:06:01,676 and come to see it as an inherently flawed institution. 1626 01:06:01,745 --> 01:06:04,479 Texas, on the other hand, despite leading the nation 1627 01:06:04,548 --> 01:06:07,517 in DNA exonerations, is seemingly still okay 1628 01:06:07,586 --> 01:06:09,051 with its approach of, 1629 01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,623 "Kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out." 1630 01:06:13,391 --> 01:06:16,158 - So I've got a Delma Banks folder. 1631 01:06:16,227 --> 01:06:18,094 - I first got to know Michelle back in '02 1632 01:06:18,162 --> 01:06:19,461 when I was trying to make 1633 01:06:19,529 --> 01:06:21,363 that prison and football movie. 1634 01:06:21,432 --> 01:06:24,333 She was early in her career as co-communications director 1635 01:06:24,402 --> 01:06:26,002 at TDCJ. 1636 01:06:26,070 --> 01:06:29,105 - And this was the stay of execution that he had. 1637 01:06:29,173 --> 01:06:32,607 And this shows-- okay, so it was at 5:59. 1638 01:06:32,676 --> 01:06:36,512 So he was given a stay right before 6:00, 1639 01:06:36,581 --> 01:06:38,380 and I ran back there 1640 01:06:38,449 --> 01:06:41,484 to ask him what his reaction was. 1641 01:06:41,553 --> 01:06:42,918 The gist of it was, 1642 01:06:42,987 --> 01:06:46,989 "I just want to give Jesus all the credit." 1643 01:06:47,058 --> 01:06:48,590 And... [clears throat] 1644 01:06:48,659 --> 01:06:51,363 He said that he wasn't really surprised. 1645 01:06:52,797 --> 01:06:54,096 - Here we go. 1646 01:06:54,164 --> 01:06:57,265 [dramatic music] 1647 01:06:57,334 --> 01:06:58,868 - Until I moved to Huntsville, 1648 01:06:58,937 --> 01:07:00,803 even though, again, I'm from Texas, 1649 01:07:00,871 --> 01:07:02,404 I grew up here, 1650 01:07:02,472 --> 01:07:05,908 I never gave any thought to the death penalty at all. 1651 01:07:05,977 --> 01:07:08,010 The Texas Department of Criminal Justice 1652 01:07:08,078 --> 01:07:10,046 is the largest state agency in Texas, 1653 01:07:10,114 --> 01:07:11,947 and there were two of us 1654 01:07:12,016 --> 01:07:13,883 that were acting as the spokespeople. 1655 01:07:13,951 --> 01:07:16,318 And we were working around the clock, 1656 01:07:16,386 --> 01:07:19,254 because the news cycle is around the clock. 1657 01:07:19,323 --> 01:07:22,057 The 1993 rape and murder of Elizabeth Peña 1658 01:07:22,126 --> 01:07:24,260 and Jennifer Ertman in Houston. 1659 01:07:24,328 --> 01:07:25,928 In his last statement, 1660 01:07:25,997 --> 01:07:27,930 he looked to the victim's family. 1661 01:07:27,999 --> 01:07:30,532 I tended to favor the death penalty. 1662 01:07:30,601 --> 01:07:33,801 I was empathetic with the victim's family. 1663 01:07:33,870 --> 01:07:36,372 You can't lose sight of the fact that, you know, 1664 01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,274 he's not on death row for no reason. 1665 01:07:39,343 --> 01:07:41,743 For the most part, I was very good at being able 1666 01:07:41,812 --> 01:07:45,414 to separate myself from what I was witnessing. 1667 01:07:45,483 --> 01:07:49,046 Yes, I'm watching someone, ultimately, who is dying, 1668 01:07:49,114 --> 01:07:52,054 but I was very, very good at compartmentalizing it. 1669 01:07:52,122 --> 01:07:53,488 - You're 25 years old, 1670 01:07:53,557 --> 01:07:55,658 and you've seen, by your own count, 1671 01:07:55,727 --> 01:07:58,394 50 executions. - Mm-hmm. 1672 01:07:58,462 --> 01:08:02,025 - That must affect you, doesn't it? 1673 01:08:02,094 --> 01:08:04,366 - When I was working there as the spokesperson, 1674 01:08:04,435 --> 01:08:06,135 you know, part of our job was to go 1675 01:08:06,204 --> 01:08:08,536 and see them just a few hours 1676 01:08:08,605 --> 01:08:10,572 before they were scheduled to die. 1677 01:08:10,641 --> 01:08:14,843 After the executions, any media that wasn't there, 1678 01:08:14,912 --> 01:08:18,280 I would be responsible for giving them interviews. 1679 01:08:18,349 --> 01:08:22,151 And so I would take notes about the color in the room. 1680 01:08:22,220 --> 01:08:24,920 Said at the very end, "They're killing me tonight. 1681 01:08:24,989 --> 01:08:26,121 They're murdering me tonight." 1682 01:08:26,190 --> 01:08:28,023 And then he basically just stopped talking. 1683 01:08:28,092 --> 01:08:29,720 And that was it. 1684 01:08:29,789 --> 01:08:31,493 He kind of gave a short gasp, 1685 01:08:31,561 --> 01:08:34,829 and about eight minutes later, he was pronounced dead. 1686 01:08:34,898 --> 01:08:38,400 He said, "I am sorry for everything that I have done. 1687 01:08:38,468 --> 01:08:40,368 I've hurt a lot of people." 1688 01:08:40,437 --> 01:08:43,105 He then said, "I'm ready, Warden. 1689 01:08:43,174 --> 01:08:44,639 Let's get this show on the road." 1690 01:08:44,708 --> 01:08:47,209 So I would create a folder for every execution. 1691 01:08:47,277 --> 01:08:49,644 I have a file cabinet in my little home office 1692 01:08:49,713 --> 01:08:53,848 that is nothing but execution files. 1693 01:08:53,917 --> 01:08:56,985 You had inmates that professed their innocence 1694 01:08:57,054 --> 01:08:57,953 till the very end. 1695 01:08:58,022 --> 01:09:00,688 You had inmates that professed innocence 1696 01:09:00,757 --> 01:09:02,591 until they got to the gurney and then said, 1697 01:09:02,660 --> 01:09:04,526 "You know what? I'm really sorry. 1698 01:09:04,595 --> 01:09:06,494 I hate that I've done this to you." 1699 01:09:06,563 --> 01:09:08,697 And they would apologize to the victim's family. 1700 01:09:08,765 --> 01:09:10,900 Some that never acknowledged the victim's family 1701 01:09:10,968 --> 01:09:13,201 and only apologized to their families and said, 1702 01:09:13,270 --> 01:09:15,004 "I'm sorry for putting you through this." 1703 01:09:15,073 --> 01:09:16,672 You know, and then there were a few 1704 01:09:16,740 --> 01:09:19,174 that would say something that you just never saw coming. 1705 01:09:19,243 --> 01:09:21,644 There was a man named Robert Coulson. 1706 01:09:21,713 --> 01:09:22,844 This is it. 1707 01:09:22,912 --> 01:09:24,981 And it was notable because I received the letter 1708 01:09:25,049 --> 01:09:27,349 after he was executed. 1709 01:09:27,417 --> 01:09:30,486 And so it was really creepy, because, basically, 1710 01:09:30,554 --> 01:09:32,821 I saw the letter and saw the name on it 1711 01:09:32,890 --> 01:09:36,724 and realized, "This is someone that died a few days ago." 1712 01:09:36,793 --> 01:09:39,557 And this is how the letter started out. 1713 01:09:39,625 --> 01:09:41,363 "Ms. Lyons, hi. 1714 01:09:41,432 --> 01:09:43,898 "If you are reading this, then they killed me. 1715 01:09:43,967 --> 01:09:47,502 "I just wanted to tell you that I enjoyed talking to you. 1716 01:09:47,571 --> 01:09:49,604 "You seem like a really great lady. 1717 01:09:49,673 --> 01:09:51,673 "I wish you all the luck in the world. 1718 01:09:51,742 --> 01:09:54,409 "Take care. Give yourself a hug for me. 1719 01:09:54,478 --> 01:09:56,945 "Thank you for your kindness. Have a wonderful day. 1720 01:09:57,014 --> 01:09:58,714 "Best wishes, Bob Coulson. 1721 01:09:58,783 --> 01:10:02,752 PS, don't let anyone steal your smile." 1722 01:10:02,820 --> 01:10:05,553 [somber music] 1723 01:10:05,622 --> 01:10:08,590 - Michelle resigned from her post in 2012 1724 01:10:08,659 --> 01:10:11,626 after a long struggle with her bosses over media relations. 1725 01:10:11,695 --> 01:10:14,263 She advocated for more transparency, 1726 01:10:14,331 --> 01:10:17,633 but that didn't sit well with the new leadership. 1727 01:10:17,702 --> 01:10:19,067 - [sighs] 1728 01:10:19,136 --> 01:10:20,702 You know, by the time I left, 1729 01:10:20,771 --> 01:10:23,005 you know, it was over 280 executions 1730 01:10:23,074 --> 01:10:24,173 that I witnessed. 1731 01:10:24,242 --> 01:10:26,808 And there were maybe 3 1732 01:10:26,877 --> 01:10:29,479 that actually fought on the way to the gurney. 1733 01:10:29,547 --> 01:10:31,413 He was not restrained. 1734 01:10:31,482 --> 01:10:35,517 And I found that just so incredibly unsettling 1735 01:10:35,585 --> 01:10:38,554 and contrary to what you would think 1736 01:10:38,622 --> 01:10:40,856 a human would do-- you know, that you would think 1737 01:10:40,924 --> 01:10:43,326 somebody would fight and be screaming and kicking 1738 01:10:43,395 --> 01:10:44,961 and all of that. 1739 01:10:45,029 --> 01:10:46,896 And so it really unnerved me 1740 01:10:46,965 --> 01:10:50,065 to see how docile and just... 1741 01:10:50,134 --> 01:10:52,502 resigned they were to it. 1742 01:10:52,571 --> 01:10:53,802 - Wow. 1743 01:10:53,871 --> 01:10:59,475 ♪ ♪ 1744 01:10:59,543 --> 01:11:03,779 - All of the inmates who die in the Texas prison system 1745 01:11:03,847 --> 01:11:06,482 whose bodies aren't claimed, they're taken here, 1746 01:11:06,551 --> 01:11:08,485 and they're buried. 1747 01:11:08,553 --> 01:11:10,990 This is Thomas Mason. 1748 01:11:12,622 --> 01:11:14,957 And this execution I witnessed. 1749 01:11:15,026 --> 01:11:18,627 This one was June 12th of 2000. 1750 01:11:18,696 --> 01:11:21,297 What struck me so much about that execution is, 1751 01:11:21,365 --> 01:11:24,333 he looked so much like my grandfather. 1752 01:11:24,402 --> 01:11:26,568 You know, because of the volume of executions, 1753 01:11:26,636 --> 01:11:28,904 you know, in rare cases, I do remember all of it. 1754 01:11:28,973 --> 01:11:30,439 But in a lot of cases, 1755 01:11:30,508 --> 01:11:32,374 some of the details bleed together. 1756 01:11:32,443 --> 01:11:35,539 And I wish that I could keep them sorted better. 1757 01:11:35,608 --> 01:11:37,779 ♪ ♪ 1758 01:11:37,848 --> 01:11:42,518 You know, when I left TDC, I was working in Houston. 1759 01:11:42,587 --> 01:11:44,347 So I'm in the car a lot. 1760 01:11:44,416 --> 01:11:46,621 And I was surprised at how much I kept thinking 1761 01:11:46,690 --> 01:11:49,758 about all these different executions. 1762 01:11:49,827 --> 01:11:52,089 And I was surprised that it was bothering me, 1763 01:11:52,157 --> 01:11:53,896 because I thought that all this time, 1764 01:11:53,965 --> 01:11:57,266 I'd been so good about really keeping it 1765 01:11:57,335 --> 01:11:59,401 very compartmentalized. 1766 01:11:59,470 --> 01:12:01,336 There was an execution 1767 01:12:01,405 --> 01:12:04,040 where there weren't any witnesses, 1768 01:12:04,108 --> 01:12:07,810 so we were able to go up right next to the glass. 1769 01:12:07,879 --> 01:12:11,146 The man was in the room, and he just stared 1770 01:12:11,215 --> 01:12:12,715 at the ceiling the entire time, 1771 01:12:12,784 --> 01:12:14,249 just looked up at the ceiling. 1772 01:12:14,318 --> 01:12:16,980 And so, when the warden came in, he said, 1773 01:12:17,049 --> 01:12:18,586 "Do you have a last statement?" 1774 01:12:18,655 --> 01:12:20,622 And he just barely shook his head no 1775 01:12:20,691 --> 01:12:22,758 and just kept looking at the ceiling. 1776 01:12:22,826 --> 01:12:26,228 And at that time, you just saw this one tear 1777 01:12:26,296 --> 01:12:29,065 roll down the right side of his cheek, 1778 01:12:29,133 --> 01:12:30,933 and the chemicals began flowing, 1779 01:12:31,002 --> 01:12:32,734 and that was it. 1780 01:12:32,803 --> 01:12:35,704 That was the one that just stayed with me the longest 1781 01:12:35,773 --> 01:12:40,143 because it was so sad how incredibly alone he was. 1782 01:12:40,212 --> 01:12:43,712 ♪ ♪ 1783 01:12:43,780 --> 01:12:45,648 The death penalty is sad all the way around, 1784 01:12:45,717 --> 01:12:47,316 because, I mean, nobody wins. 1785 01:12:47,385 --> 01:12:50,385 You have the initial taking of a life. 1786 01:12:50,454 --> 01:12:52,587 You have the victim's family, of course, 1787 01:12:52,656 --> 01:12:54,690 who never asked to be put in this position. 1788 01:12:54,759 --> 01:12:56,058 You have the inmate's family, 1789 01:12:56,127 --> 01:12:57,860 who never asked to be put in this position, 1790 01:12:57,929 --> 01:12:59,995 and they're also being drug along on this ride. 1791 01:13:00,064 --> 01:13:02,998 It's just a sad situation all the way around. 1792 01:13:03,067 --> 01:13:05,601 ♪ ♪ 1793 01:13:05,670 --> 01:13:06,869 - There are a lot of reasons 1794 01:13:06,937 --> 01:13:08,603 to be against the death penalty, 1795 01:13:08,672 --> 01:13:10,707 but the one I'm feeling the most right now 1796 01:13:10,775 --> 01:13:12,774 is what Michelle is talking about. 1797 01:13:12,842 --> 01:13:15,878 The death penalty takes one tragedy, a murder, 1798 01:13:15,947 --> 01:13:17,913 and expands the pain and suffering 1799 01:13:17,981 --> 01:13:20,883 to include so many others-- all the people involved 1800 01:13:20,952 --> 01:13:23,452 in the legal and criminal appeals process 1801 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:26,121 that get dragged slowly to the death chamber, 1802 01:13:26,190 --> 01:13:28,590 all the obligatory witnesses, 1803 01:13:28,658 --> 01:13:31,060 and all the people with various jobs in the system, 1804 01:13:31,129 --> 01:13:33,061 like Ed, Michelle, and Fred. 1805 01:13:33,130 --> 01:13:35,530 ♪ ♪ 1806 01:13:35,599 --> 01:13:37,966 The Eighth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution 1807 01:13:38,035 --> 01:13:41,136 specifically prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. 1808 01:13:41,205 --> 01:13:44,907 But what can be more cruel and certainly unusual 1809 01:13:44,976 --> 01:13:47,209 than to have to play a part in or witness 1810 01:13:47,278 --> 01:13:50,913 another person's murder, however state sanctioned? 1811 01:13:50,982 --> 01:13:53,181 ♪ ♪ 1812 01:13:53,250 --> 01:13:55,985 But institutions aren't built to end themselves. 1813 01:13:56,054 --> 01:13:58,053 So the whole system lumbers along. 1814 01:13:58,121 --> 01:14:01,891 And the city of Huntsville continues to supply the labor. 1815 01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:03,625 I would never have imagined the town 1816 01:14:03,693 --> 01:14:05,428 could have become a major destination 1817 01:14:05,497 --> 01:14:06,929 for African immigrants, 1818 01:14:06,997 --> 01:14:08,831 but that's exactly what's happened 1819 01:14:08,900 --> 01:14:10,732 over the last 15 years or so, 1820 01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:13,235 with the prison actively recruiting men and women 1821 01:14:13,304 --> 01:14:14,503 to fill positions 1822 01:14:14,572 --> 01:14:17,273 more and more locals don't want to take. 1823 01:14:17,341 --> 01:14:18,941 A few I talked with saw it 1824 01:14:19,010 --> 01:14:20,976 as a good starter job in America-- 1825 01:14:21,045 --> 01:14:24,913 a foot in the door in the land of opportunity. 1826 01:14:24,982 --> 01:14:28,083 - Can somebody shout "hallelujah"? 1827 01:14:28,152 --> 01:14:30,720 all: Hallelujah! 1828 01:14:30,788 --> 01:14:32,755 [upbeat music playing] 1829 01:14:32,824 --> 01:14:34,590 - Praise the Lord. - Hallelujah. 1830 01:14:34,658 --> 01:14:36,225 - May the Lord continue to help us, 1831 01:14:36,293 --> 01:14:38,795 in Jesus' mighty name. 1832 01:14:38,863 --> 01:14:41,396 [applause] 1833 01:14:41,465 --> 01:14:45,034 Hallelujah. Praise the living Jesus. 1834 01:14:45,103 --> 01:14:46,669 Amen. 1835 01:14:46,738 --> 01:14:51,107 So temptation will lead us into sin. 1836 01:14:51,175 --> 01:14:52,674 And sin ultimately... 1837 01:14:52,743 --> 01:14:54,443 - My parents, they're both, like, really, 1838 01:14:54,512 --> 01:14:55,778 really faithful in the Lord. 1839 01:14:55,847 --> 01:14:58,213 And they believe that it was because of God 1840 01:14:58,282 --> 01:15:00,248 that they were able to, like, get the opportunity 1841 01:15:00,317 --> 01:15:01,517 to come to America. 1842 01:15:01,585 --> 01:15:04,153 So the first thing they did when we landed 1843 01:15:04,221 --> 01:15:06,088 was go find a church. 1844 01:15:06,157 --> 01:15:08,456 It was hard for them to find a job. 1845 01:15:08,525 --> 01:15:12,127 And then my dad, he heard about the TDC. 1846 01:15:12,196 --> 01:15:13,729 He works really hard. 1847 01:15:13,797 --> 01:15:17,266 He goes to work at the prison at, like, 7:00 1848 01:15:17,334 --> 01:15:20,435 and then comes, like, at 6:00 in the morning, 1849 01:15:20,504 --> 01:15:23,309 and then he goes to church. 1850 01:15:24,908 --> 01:15:29,011 - But now there are many that have come to this land, 1851 01:15:29,079 --> 01:15:32,547 even though they have their two eyes open, 1852 01:15:32,616 --> 01:15:36,218 but, spiritually, they are blind. 1853 01:15:36,286 --> 01:15:38,554 When I was leaving, 1854 01:15:38,622 --> 01:15:42,659 some of my fellow ministers in charge went, 1855 01:15:42,727 --> 01:15:44,994 "Oh, you're going to Texas? 1856 01:15:45,062 --> 01:15:48,563 That's more of a Republican state." 1857 01:15:48,632 --> 01:15:51,868 There were not much Africans here then. 1858 01:15:51,936 --> 01:15:55,104 When I got the job in the prison, 1859 01:15:55,172 --> 01:15:57,372 I look at the inmates. 1860 01:15:57,441 --> 01:15:59,075 I look at the environment. 1861 01:15:59,143 --> 01:16:01,810 I said, "Can I cope in this place?" 1862 01:16:01,879 --> 01:16:06,449 But 95% of my congregation work in the prison. 1863 01:16:06,518 --> 01:16:11,353 ♪ ♪ 1864 01:16:11,421 --> 01:16:12,755 But I will travel long distance. 1865 01:16:12,824 --> 01:16:16,258 Some of us travel in the air for 14 hours. 1866 01:16:16,327 --> 01:16:17,860 - I was born in Nigeria. 1867 01:16:17,929 --> 01:16:19,896 We were really poor back there, you know. 1868 01:16:19,964 --> 01:16:21,897 Some nights we weren't able to, like, get food, 1869 01:16:21,966 --> 01:16:23,598 and we had to buy it on credit. 1870 01:16:23,667 --> 01:16:25,067 That was, like, what we thought 1871 01:16:25,135 --> 01:16:26,836 was gonna be, like, daily life. 1872 01:16:26,905 --> 01:16:28,403 And I'm really grateful we're here. 1873 01:16:28,472 --> 01:16:32,909 - Now, those of us that work with the state corrections, 1874 01:16:32,977 --> 01:16:35,644 when you talk to some of these offenders-- 1875 01:16:35,713 --> 01:16:37,012 - I get a lot of haircuts at the prison 1876 01:16:37,081 --> 01:16:38,480 because they give out free haircuts 1877 01:16:38,548 --> 01:16:39,882 to, like, people who work there 1878 01:16:39,951 --> 01:16:41,450 or, like, their family and all that. 1879 01:16:41,519 --> 01:16:42,918 - Your folks are working at a prison. 1880 01:16:42,987 --> 01:16:45,187 How has that affected your life? 1881 01:16:45,256 --> 01:16:46,923 - I think... 1882 01:16:46,991 --> 01:16:48,957 - Or not, you know? I mean, it's just there. 1883 01:16:49,026 --> 01:16:51,926 Stuff goes on behind those walls, but... 1884 01:16:51,995 --> 01:16:53,862 - I was able to, like, talk to a lot of the inmates 1885 01:16:53,931 --> 01:16:55,764 and just know their story. 1886 01:16:55,833 --> 01:16:59,135 And I don't like the way prisons are 1887 01:16:59,203 --> 01:17:00,903 in, like, the United States at all. 1888 01:17:00,972 --> 01:17:02,070 I don't like the way they are. 1889 01:17:02,139 --> 01:17:03,472 They just treat them like animals. 1890 01:17:03,540 --> 01:17:04,640 And it's like, these are people. 1891 01:17:04,709 --> 01:17:06,042 They're human beings, man. 1892 01:17:06,110 --> 01:17:08,110 - What are the odds you ever work at TDCJ? 1893 01:17:08,179 --> 01:17:10,612 - Low. I'm not--I don't see myself working there. 1894 01:17:10,681 --> 01:17:12,314 - Not for you. - And I'm not going to. 1895 01:17:12,383 --> 01:17:13,515 So... [laughs] - Yeah. 1896 01:17:13,584 --> 01:17:15,850 Ten years from now, what's Tega doing, 1897 01:17:15,919 --> 01:17:18,754 do you think, if you had to... - Modeling. Modeling. 1898 01:17:18,822 --> 01:17:21,957 That dream, like, it kind of directly, like, interferes 1899 01:17:22,026 --> 01:17:23,959 with, like, what my parents think. 1900 01:17:24,028 --> 01:17:25,961 - Yeah, my parents were a little slow to understand 1901 01:17:26,030 --> 01:17:27,895 what I was doing in the arts. - Yeah. 1902 01:17:27,964 --> 01:17:32,000 - I was about 30 when they finally said, "Oh, okay." 1903 01:17:32,069 --> 01:17:35,737 I see some of myself in Pastor John's son, Tega. 1904 01:17:35,806 --> 01:17:37,974 He wants to be an artist, move away, 1905 01:17:38,042 --> 01:17:41,304 and challenge himself in a bigger environment. 1906 01:17:41,373 --> 01:17:43,179 But he still loves Huntsville. 1907 01:17:43,247 --> 01:17:45,748 - I think I fit in in Huntsville, 1908 01:17:45,817 --> 01:17:49,252 but not to, like, the scale I would 1909 01:17:49,321 --> 01:17:50,789 in Austin. 1910 01:17:52,523 --> 01:17:54,256 Growing up in such a small town, 1911 01:17:54,325 --> 01:17:56,192 it's like, it gets boring, you know. 1912 01:17:56,260 --> 01:17:59,227 Like, things just remain too stagnant sometimes. 1913 01:17:59,296 --> 01:18:02,732 [camera beeping] 1914 01:18:02,801 --> 01:18:06,602 [shutter clicking] 1915 01:18:06,671 --> 01:18:08,337 And everybody knows everybody. 1916 01:18:08,405 --> 01:18:09,772 There's no bullying. 1917 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:11,040 Bullying is not a problem 1918 01:18:11,109 --> 01:18:13,708 at Huntsville High School, I don't think. 1919 01:18:13,777 --> 01:18:15,310 But I'd say in the last, like, three years, 1920 01:18:15,379 --> 01:18:17,680 Huntsville has been growing, like, really fast, 1921 01:18:17,749 --> 01:18:19,515 like, ridiculously fast. 1922 01:18:19,584 --> 01:18:24,419 ♪ ♪ 1923 01:18:24,488 --> 01:18:27,222 The way I look at Texas now, it's way different 1924 01:18:27,291 --> 01:18:29,925 from, like, what you'll hear in history books, 1925 01:18:29,993 --> 01:18:33,628 because Texas is, like, one of the most diverse states. 1926 01:18:33,697 --> 01:18:36,064 It's a very open culture. It's accepting. 1927 01:18:36,133 --> 01:18:38,661 And I feel like you won't get-- 1928 01:18:38,730 --> 01:18:41,303 you won't know about Texas until you live here. 1929 01:18:41,372 --> 01:18:43,873 [indistinct chatter] 1930 01:18:43,942 --> 01:18:46,175 Maybe this is just my perspective 1931 01:18:46,244 --> 01:18:48,911 as, like, a Huntsvillian and Texan. 1932 01:18:48,979 --> 01:18:50,680 These are the people I've grown up with 1933 01:18:50,749 --> 01:18:52,014 for, like, most of my life. 1934 01:18:52,082 --> 01:18:54,016 So it feels so tight-knit. 1935 01:18:54,085 --> 01:18:56,218 And it just feels like everybody's, like, 1936 01:18:56,287 --> 01:18:58,348 gonna be there for the rest of your lives. 1937 01:18:58,417 --> 01:18:59,655 And we came from a small town. 1938 01:18:59,724 --> 01:19:01,090 We're all Huntsville kids. - Yeah. 1939 01:19:01,158 --> 01:19:03,358 - We can't just, like, lose that sense of identity 1940 01:19:03,427 --> 01:19:05,497 and, like, where we came from, you know. 1941 01:19:07,131 --> 01:19:08,964 - She's from, like, Portland, so it's... 1942 01:19:09,033 --> 01:19:10,999 [indistinct chatter] 1943 01:19:11,068 --> 01:19:14,503 - And then I became Buzzy, which is another thing. 1944 01:19:14,572 --> 01:19:17,973 ♪ ♪ 1945 01:19:18,042 --> 01:19:19,808 And that allowed me to go to more football games. 1946 01:19:19,876 --> 01:19:21,810 And I was like, "Oh, wow, I'm really, like-- 1947 01:19:21,879 --> 01:19:23,445 I have pride in where I come from." 1948 01:19:23,514 --> 01:19:25,915 I bleed green, you know. - [laughs] They got you. 1949 01:19:25,983 --> 01:19:27,483 It happened eventually. - [laughing] 1950 01:19:27,552 --> 01:19:28,751 - Yeah, but... 1951 01:19:28,820 --> 01:19:30,387 - You will the rest of your life. 1952 01:19:30,455 --> 01:19:31,720 - [laughs] 1953 01:19:31,789 --> 01:19:35,561 ♪ ♪ 1954 01:19:37,828 --> 01:19:40,796 [soft music] 1955 01:19:40,865 --> 01:19:42,965 ♪ ♪ 1956 01:19:43,033 --> 01:19:44,832 - This will be my 12th execution 1957 01:19:44,901 --> 01:19:48,671 I've covered since I've been in Huntsville. 1958 01:19:48,740 --> 01:19:51,073 Been here a little over a year. 1959 01:19:51,141 --> 01:19:54,377 This is a Dallas County man 1960 01:19:54,446 --> 01:19:56,344 that was convicted 1961 01:19:56,413 --> 01:19:59,581 for murdering his stepsons and his wife. 1962 01:19:59,650 --> 01:20:02,619 And it looks like we already have 1963 01:20:02,687 --> 01:20:05,855 a few protesters lining up. 1964 01:20:05,924 --> 01:20:07,890 - You can be Robert Sparks, 1965 01:20:07,959 --> 01:20:09,591 and you're gonna be executed, 1966 01:20:09,660 --> 01:20:11,594 because you're poor, you're Black, 1967 01:20:11,663 --> 01:20:12,962 you're mentally ill. 1968 01:20:13,031 --> 01:20:15,030 - I'm in the inmate's witness room 1969 01:20:15,099 --> 01:20:18,467 with any family or friends. 1970 01:20:18,536 --> 01:20:20,770 Covering executions-- the first time I covered one, 1971 01:20:20,839 --> 01:20:22,271 I was nervous as heck. 1972 01:20:22,340 --> 01:20:24,673 I had nightmares for a few days. 1973 01:20:24,741 --> 01:20:27,710 Now I've got to a point where it doesn't bother me. 1974 01:20:27,779 --> 01:20:31,580 - We know that the state of Texas 1975 01:20:31,649 --> 01:20:36,018 has no right to execute anybody! 1976 01:20:36,087 --> 01:20:37,954 - Even as journalists, we're kind of called murderers 1977 01:20:38,022 --> 01:20:39,455 as we're walking in. 1978 01:20:39,524 --> 01:20:40,723 - [speaking indistinctly] 1979 01:20:40,791 --> 01:20:43,025 For his mental health. 1980 01:20:43,093 --> 01:20:47,129 He should not be executed tonight. 1981 01:20:47,197 --> 01:20:50,365 - I came to Texas 35 years ago, 1982 01:20:50,434 --> 01:20:52,434 and I think it would have been the second execution 1983 01:20:52,502 --> 01:20:54,502 that the state carried out that I came to. 1984 01:20:54,571 --> 01:20:57,807 But I'd say that I've been to 90% of the executions 1985 01:20:57,876 --> 01:20:59,274 that have taken place. 1986 01:20:59,343 --> 01:21:04,179 - We are here because we oppose every single execution, 1987 01:21:04,248 --> 01:21:06,348 whether people are innocent or guilty. 1988 01:21:06,417 --> 01:21:08,450 - I like to try to keep the victims 1989 01:21:08,519 --> 01:21:10,653 as well as the offender in my prayers 1990 01:21:10,721 --> 01:21:11,987 while I'm on the corner, 1991 01:21:12,056 --> 01:21:14,056 because there are real victims. 1992 01:21:14,125 --> 01:21:16,993 While I'm here, I spend a lot of time 1993 01:21:17,061 --> 01:21:18,921 imagining the conversations 1994 01:21:18,990 --> 01:21:21,764 that take place between the parents and the children 1995 01:21:21,833 --> 01:21:23,331 in the cars that drive by, 1996 01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:26,001 because I think that's the ultimate measure 1997 01:21:26,070 --> 01:21:28,337 of the justness of what we do. 1998 01:21:28,406 --> 01:21:31,774 Can we rightly explain it to our children? 1999 01:21:31,843 --> 01:21:35,444 - We know that what is happening tonight 2000 01:21:35,513 --> 01:21:38,114 is wrong! 2001 01:21:38,182 --> 01:21:41,350 - They give us these. 2002 01:21:41,418 --> 01:21:43,719 When you're part of the support group, 2003 01:21:43,788 --> 01:21:45,788 they issue these packets. 2004 01:21:45,857 --> 01:21:47,624 It's just the one picture of him. 2005 01:21:47,692 --> 01:21:49,659 No pictures of anyone else. 2006 01:21:49,727 --> 01:21:52,695 I have no sympathy for him. 2007 01:21:52,763 --> 01:21:55,531 I think he's 45 today. 2008 01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:56,965 Mm-hmm. 2009 01:21:57,034 --> 01:21:59,371 Yeah. Mm-hmm. 2010 01:22:00,738 --> 01:22:02,605 Yeah. 2011 01:22:02,673 --> 01:22:05,341 My cousin was 30 years old. 2012 01:22:05,410 --> 01:22:09,111 ♪ ♪ 2013 01:22:09,180 --> 01:22:11,814 - Word of God says, you know, that an eye for an eye 2014 01:22:11,882 --> 01:22:12,982 and tooth for a tooth. 2015 01:22:13,051 --> 01:22:15,017 I know that was in the Old Testament. 2016 01:22:15,086 --> 01:22:17,385 But it also said we must obey the laws of the land. 2017 01:22:17,454 --> 01:22:19,287 So, if the law of the land is say, 2018 01:22:19,356 --> 01:22:22,358 "Murder him, kill him because of the crime he did," 2019 01:22:22,427 --> 01:22:24,426 so be it. 2020 01:22:24,494 --> 01:22:27,096 So it's two blues for each son, 2021 01:22:27,164 --> 01:22:29,331 each brother, and their mom. 2022 01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:32,668 When they release it, for me, you know, 2023 01:22:32,737 --> 01:22:34,837 it means they finally can rest. 2024 01:22:34,905 --> 01:22:37,272 They can rest in heaven. 2025 01:22:37,341 --> 01:22:40,243 I know it'll make 'em feel better. 2026 01:22:40,312 --> 01:22:47,083 ♪ ♪ 2027 01:22:47,151 --> 01:22:51,019 [upbeat music] 2028 01:22:51,088 --> 01:22:52,521 - Yeah, baby! 2029 01:22:52,590 --> 01:22:55,491 [indistinct chatter] 2030 01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:59,228 ♪ ♪ 2031 01:22:59,297 --> 01:23:01,330 - Hey, JB, I saved you. 2032 01:23:01,398 --> 01:23:04,733 [cheers and applause] - Let's go, Hornets! 2033 01:23:04,802 --> 01:23:07,704 ♪ ♪ 2034 01:23:07,772 --> 01:23:11,540 [cheers and applause] 2035 01:23:11,609 --> 01:23:18,584 ♪ ♪ 2036 01:23:32,296 --> 01:23:35,259 [cheers and applause] 2037 01:23:35,328 --> 01:23:41,203 ♪ ♪ 2038 01:23:41,272 --> 01:23:44,810 - Tonight Texas has another notch in their belt. 2039 01:23:46,277 --> 01:23:49,078 This execution should never have happened 2040 01:23:49,147 --> 01:23:51,647 given the facts in this case--never. 2041 01:23:51,716 --> 01:23:52,648 - It was a full room. 2042 01:23:52,716 --> 01:23:55,084 There was four members of the inmate's family, 2043 01:23:55,153 --> 01:23:58,186 three state officials, three from victim services, 2044 01:23:58,255 --> 01:24:01,991 three law enforcement, and I was the only media. 2045 01:24:02,060 --> 01:24:03,492 He was very remorseful. 2046 01:24:03,561 --> 01:24:06,128 Yeah, he was very apologetic to both the inmate 2047 01:24:06,197 --> 01:24:08,697 and the victim's family. 2048 01:24:08,766 --> 01:24:11,133 It was a very... 2049 01:24:11,202 --> 01:24:13,001 somber environment. 2050 01:24:13,070 --> 01:24:16,004 [soft music] 2051 01:24:16,073 --> 01:24:19,275 ♪ ♪ 2052 01:24:19,343 --> 01:24:22,044 - In the last few decades, support for the death penalty 2053 01:24:22,112 --> 01:24:24,080 has dropped from a high in the 80s 2054 01:24:24,148 --> 01:24:26,148 down to its current level in the 50s. 2055 01:24:26,217 --> 01:24:28,884 It seems to be dying very slowly of, 2056 01:24:28,953 --> 01:24:30,886 of all things, old age. 2057 01:24:30,955 --> 01:24:32,854 ♪ ♪ 2058 01:24:32,923 --> 01:24:35,690 As more people come to truly understand how expensive, 2059 01:24:35,759 --> 01:24:38,956 arbitrary, racist, and classist it is 2060 01:24:39,024 --> 01:24:40,897 and that there are sentencing options, 2061 01:24:40,965 --> 01:24:42,965 like life without parole, 2062 01:24:43,034 --> 01:24:46,605 executions are way down, even in Texas. 2063 01:24:48,272 --> 01:24:50,439 Maybe the end will come with a bang, 2064 01:24:50,508 --> 01:24:53,241 like across-the-board moratoriums, 2065 01:24:53,310 --> 01:24:56,145 or a whimper, a slow trickle down to none. 2066 01:24:56,214 --> 01:24:58,546 But I wish I wasn't so sure the final holdout, 2067 01:24:58,615 --> 01:25:01,083 the very last execution in our country, 2068 01:25:01,152 --> 01:25:03,519 will be carried out in my hometown. 2069 01:25:03,588 --> 01:25:07,893 ♪ ♪ 2070 01:26:58,803 --> 01:27:01,773 [bright tone]