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[ambient street noise]

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[foreboding music playing]

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[subway train rumbling]

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[siren wailing in distance]

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[foreboding music continuing]

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[woman 1] When I got the call,

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they said, "Oh, Carnegie Deli.
You've got a quintuple."

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Five homicides.

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[sirens wailing]

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[man 1] When we got to the scene,
we had a hell of a lot of people outside.

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The restaurant was jammed.
Uniform closed the place down.

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We want to keep the crowd there
so we can interview them.

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Try to get witnesses
as quickly as you can.

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I get up there
and I get briefed by the detectives.

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[steadily intensifying ticking]

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[woman 2] So at the scene,
there was three likely and two DOAs.

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Three people who are likely gonna
go to the emergency room, the hospital.

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I can't imagine laying there,

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hearing the shots go off
and knowing that you're next.

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You can't shoot five people in New York.

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They're gonna hunt your ass down.

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They're gonna find you.

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[tense intro music playing]

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[man 2] Every case
takes a piece out of your soul.

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[woman 1] You cannot do this job
unless you really care.

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[man 3] You want to find out the truth.

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That's what detectives do.

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[man 4] I've always liked
the peek behind the curtain.

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What really happened?

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[woman 2] It's so important for a family
to know who murdered their relative.

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That's my job.

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[man 5] In New York City, the NYPD…

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This is it.

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[intro music trails off]

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[siren wailing in distance]

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[mysterious music playing]

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[woman] I love New York.

38
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I grew up in Alphabet City
on 10th Street in housing projects.

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My parents were very strict with me.

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I was never allowed to do a thing.

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[funky music playing]

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But we used to cut out of high school
and go to movie theaters on 42nd Street.

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It was a real grungy area for a long time.

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You had the peep shows.

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You had all the pedophiles in the arcades.

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But it had color. It had life.

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It also had quite a bit
of business for me, most unfortunately.

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When I became a cop in the '80s,
it was still really high crime.

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[man] Police officers
who were hired in the 1980s

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kind of cleaned up those streets
in the 1990s.

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[funky music trails off]

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[man 2] By 2001,
Broadway was at one of its peaks.

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Theaters were all crowded every night.

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And the Carnegie Deli was thriving.
People would wait on line to get in there.

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[Butcher] It's bright and crazy,

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and it's filled with tourists
dislocating their jaws on huge sandwiches.

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It was right next to the theater
that Letterman filmed.

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So people flocked there.
It was a landmark.

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So it's a Thursday.
I worked earlier in the day and was done.

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And I was at the ball field,
coaching my son's baseball game.

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The game ended when I get the call.

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[phone rings]

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When you start
saying it's in Midtown Manhattan,

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and you start mentioning
a landmark like Carnegie Deli,

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I have to get up there
as soon as possible.

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In retrospect, I probably
should have put a suit on. I did not.

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I show up,
I'm wearing shorts and a T-shirt.

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The crime that took place in that building

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was on the top-floor apartment,
not in the restaurant.

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Fifth floor was
where everything took place.

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We spoke to the super.
We speak to the neighbors.

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We do canvasses, find out if anybody
can tell us who these people are.

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The cooperation from the deli downstairs…

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We identified Jennifer Stahl.

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[Rivera] It's her apartment.

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[Parrino] I remember standing
in the doorway of the apartment building

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and seein' this guy
coming down the stairs, takin' pictures.

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I don't know
everybody in Crime Scene by name,

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but I know
everybody in Crime Scene by now.

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I've been around long enough,
and I'm like,

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"I don't even see Crime Scene's car.
Who's this guy takin' pictures?"

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I remember it went something like this.
Like, "Who are you?"

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"What are you doing in my crime scene?"

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"Are you in Crime?" "No, I'm not."
"Then who are you?"

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"I'm the police commissioner's
photographer."

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I'll tell you what I said.
You could bleep it out.

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"I don't give a fuck who you are.
Get out of my fuckin' crime scene."

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[Rivera] Parrino's not a kiss ass.

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A case like this,
everybody wants to come and look.

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But when you're in charge of the scene,

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no matter who the boss is,
you tell them, "You can't come in."

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[Zeins] We get upstairs,
and inside, there on the floor,

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were two bodies face down

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with their hands behind their back,

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tied up in duct tape and shot in the head.

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[Butcher] They didn't break in.

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Door's not broken down.

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So that gives you some clue.

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Barbara Butcher was like
having another detective there,

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but a detective who knew more than you.

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[Butcher] I was
a medical legal death investigator

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working for the Office
of Chief Medical Examiner in New York.

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We go to that scene
and investigate the body.

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We work with the police.

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The scene belongs to them.

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The body belongs to me.

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[suspenseful music playing]

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Four people had been lined up and shot.

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[quietly] One, two, three, four.

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And there was blood in a rectangle

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down the living room floor.

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And then the smears of blood

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where two of the people
had been pulled away by EMTs.

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And then I photograph the wounds
and the bindings.

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[shutter snaps]

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Tied behind the back,
ankles tied, things like that.

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One of the detectives saying to me,

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"Let me take you where we think
the first shooting occurred,

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the first victim."

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That was Jennifer Stahl.

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[somber music playing]

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Somebody told me
that she was the owner of the apartment,

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and had been removed
because she still had a pulse.

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Even though the body isn't there,
I still need to collect whatever evidence,

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whatever story I can about that person

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if they're likely to die.

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And we went back
to a little recording studio.

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She had this
wonderful little creative thing.

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The kind of thing I would like.

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And, um, I… I had a flash of sadness.

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And to see blood in that little…

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sweet little studio.

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It was not good.

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You wanna be careful not to let
your emotions get away with you.

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So, you know, quick, boom.
Let's close the lid on that.

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Let's tamp that right the hell down.
Let's get about our business.

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[melancholy music trails off]

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[suspenseful music playing]

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[Parrino] I remember
walkin' into the apartment.

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It becomes apparent
this is a place of business.

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This was not the "nickel bag in
Washington Square Park cut with oregano"

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kind of pot dealing.

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She was dealing, uh, high-end marijuana.

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We discovered drugs and money missing.

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[Rivera] Right away, we're gonna think,
"It's a robbery gone bad."

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But you have five people tied up,
four people on the floor.

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That's very unusual,
especially in Midtown.

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That doesn't really happen there.

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All shot in the head,
back of the head, execution style.

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We can think it could be a personal thing.
We could think it might be domestic,

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where Jennifer might have had a problem
with a boyfriend or somebody else.

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The fact that Jennifer Stahl
was selling weed wasn't important to us,

153
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even though marijuana wasn't legal then.

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We were more concerned
that five people got shot.

155
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The media was all over it
from the beginning.

156
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They caught wind of it
the night it happened.

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[intense, riveting music playing]

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[reporter] Detectives and investigators
search for clues

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hours after two men
and a woman were killed

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and another man and woman hospitalized.

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A friend of mine called and was like,
"Mich, did you… Turn on the TV."

162
00:10:04,063 --> 00:10:06,940
"Did you see the news?
There's been a shooting at Jen's."

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[siren squawks]

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00:10:08,942 --> 00:10:10,486
They were interrupting TV shows.

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00:10:10,569 --> 00:10:12,613
Massacre happened above the Carnegie Deli.

166
00:10:12,696 --> 00:10:14,823
…execution-style shooting
inside the building

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were bound and gagged with duct tape.

168
00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:19,662
She'd broken her finger and had a surgery.

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You could see the cast on her hand,
and I knew it was Jen.

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I knew it was her.

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With media pressure came more resources,
which was very helpful.

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[man] Manhattan is divided
for police department purposes,

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Manhattan North and Manhattan South.

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00:10:38,263 --> 00:10:40,432
So the dividing line is 59th Street.

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Manhattan South
handles everything south of 59th Street,

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down to the Battery, river to river.

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00:10:47,731 --> 00:10:50,275
Each borough has several precincts.

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Each of those precincts
has a detective squad.

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00:10:53,779 --> 00:10:56,865
Homicide squads come in as a support group

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00:10:56,949 --> 00:11:01,328
when a homicide drops
in one of those precincts.

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00:11:02,037 --> 00:11:05,708
The case was assigned
to Midtown North Precinct.

182
00:11:06,417 --> 00:11:08,377
So it's Manhattan South Homicide.

183
00:11:08,961 --> 00:11:12,506
You need personnel. The more personnel,
the more information you're gonna get.

184
00:11:13,382 --> 00:11:16,301
You wanna get
Manhattan North Homicide down there.

185
00:11:17,094 --> 00:11:19,221
We would be called to assist them.

186
00:11:19,304 --> 00:11:22,015
They never would be called to assist us.

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[Rivera] Manhattan South,
we called them "Manhattan Soft."

188
00:11:25,185 --> 00:11:27,396
Cops that work
in Manhattan North are tougher.

189
00:11:27,479 --> 00:11:29,064
There was this whole competition.

190
00:11:29,148 --> 00:11:31,734
When I went to work in Manhattan South,
I changed my opinion.

191
00:11:31,817 --> 00:11:35,904
Manhattan South, you have to really use
your head and investigation skills,

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00:11:35,988 --> 00:11:40,200
because a lot of the cases
were stranger-on-stranger homicides.

193
00:11:40,284 --> 00:11:44,037
And a lot of the perpetrators
come from New Jersey, Brooklyn, Queens.

194
00:11:44,121 --> 00:11:45,622
They can come from anywhere.

195
00:11:45,706 --> 00:11:49,001
[intense, riveting music playing]

196
00:11:50,794 --> 00:11:55,966
There were witnesses on the scene
who saw a red car driving away.

197
00:11:56,049 --> 00:11:58,302
Close proximity to the deli.

198
00:11:58,385 --> 00:12:00,763
These bits of information,
when they're put together,

199
00:12:00,846 --> 00:12:03,599
it's either gonna
fit into the pattern of the investigation

200
00:12:03,682 --> 00:12:05,350
or it's gonna get ruled out.

201
00:12:05,434 --> 00:12:07,269
But everything is worthy of a look.

202
00:12:07,352 --> 00:12:10,689
It's a full-court press
to find out as much as we can.

203
00:12:11,273 --> 00:12:14,193
[Rivera] First, we identify Stahl.
It's her apartment.

204
00:12:14,276 --> 00:12:17,529
From there,
we have to identify all the victims.

205
00:12:17,613 --> 00:12:19,823
All your effort
goes into identifying the person

206
00:12:19,907 --> 00:12:21,909
before figuring out what happened.

207
00:12:22,534 --> 00:12:25,621
[McNeely] You do victimology.
You look into their backgrounds.

208
00:12:25,704 --> 00:12:26,955
We had a gang database.

209
00:12:27,039 --> 00:12:29,583
You're gonna
run them through that database.

210
00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:33,420
Check with Narcotics to see if they knew
any individuals that were there.

211
00:12:33,504 --> 00:12:35,422
Nicknames, phone numbers,
things like that.

212
00:12:36,381 --> 00:12:40,427
[Rivera] The DOAs were
Stephen King and Charles Helliwell.

213
00:12:41,345 --> 00:12:43,347
[Butcher] Jennifer didn't make it.

214
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:46,517
She died probably just a few hours later.

215
00:12:47,017 --> 00:12:49,019
Gunshot wound to the head.

216
00:12:50,395 --> 00:12:53,857
And the other two, by a miracle of God,

217
00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:58,403
despite being shot in the head,
they survived.

218
00:12:58,487 --> 00:13:01,156
[somber, pensive music playing]

219
00:13:07,412 --> 00:13:12,000
[Veader] I just feel like somebody
was watching out for me, you know?

220
00:13:13,126 --> 00:13:15,671
That my mother was with me
or something like that.

221
00:13:16,630 --> 00:13:19,341
God was on one shoulder
and my mother was on the other.

222
00:13:19,842 --> 00:13:20,884
Because…

223
00:13:22,177 --> 00:13:23,178
Um…

224
00:13:23,887 --> 00:13:26,890
Yeah, that was… that was close.

225
00:13:27,724 --> 00:13:29,726
[subtly menacing music playing]

226
00:13:32,145 --> 00:13:36,441
I was shot on my right side,

227
00:13:36,525 --> 00:13:39,069
behind my ear
right at the bottom of my hairline.

228
00:13:39,862 --> 00:13:44,157
And then the exit came out, um,
above my occipital bone.

229
00:13:47,035 --> 00:13:50,664
So it just basically followed
the curvature of the skull and came out.

230
00:13:51,373 --> 00:13:53,250
Which is a lucky thing,

231
00:13:53,333 --> 00:13:56,336
'cause I think if it went in,
I wouldn't be here probably.

232
00:13:58,797 --> 00:14:02,134
I never left my… my spot
'cause I didn't know…

233
00:14:02,217 --> 00:14:04,303
I was in this big puddle of blood.

234
00:14:04,887 --> 00:14:07,431
And I didn't know if I would lodge…

235
00:14:07,514 --> 00:14:11,727
If the bullet was still in me,
if I would lodge the bullet in me, or, um…

236
00:14:13,395 --> 00:14:15,606
or if I was gonna die, I didn't know.

237
00:14:16,106 --> 00:14:18,108
So I just stayed where I was.

238
00:14:20,277 --> 00:14:22,446
Once I thought that they were gone

239
00:14:22,529 --> 00:14:25,908
is when I got my hands untied
from the gaffer's tape

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00:14:27,075 --> 00:14:31,663
and reached for my cell phone in my pocket
and called 911.

241
00:14:31,747 --> 00:14:33,123
Then kept making phone calls.

242
00:14:34,416 --> 00:14:37,836
I dunno. I just wanted to say
some goodbyes to some of my friends.

243
00:14:42,841 --> 00:14:46,386
The two that survive,

244
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:48,972
we're trying to get statements
out of them.

245
00:14:50,724 --> 00:14:54,645
[Veader] The detectives were there
right from when I got to the hospital.

246
00:14:54,728 --> 00:14:56,521
I just told them what I knew.

247
00:14:56,605 --> 00:14:58,649
I mean, what… what I saw.

248
00:15:01,777 --> 00:15:05,739
[Rivera] We found out the victims,
they were all theater people, in the arts.

249
00:15:05,822 --> 00:15:08,325
And I understood
that one of those living victims

250
00:15:08,408 --> 00:15:11,870
was the fiancée of one of the DOAs.

251
00:15:15,874 --> 00:15:19,044
I told the police officer, "I walked in.
Jen introduced me to a couple,

252
00:15:19,127 --> 00:15:22,589
Rosemond and Trey,
that were up from St. John."

253
00:15:22,673 --> 00:15:25,133
They were sitting around
having a glass of wine.

254
00:15:25,217 --> 00:15:27,427
She just asked me to join them, and I did.

255
00:15:27,511 --> 00:15:31,807
My intent was just to go there
and give her a trim and get weed.

256
00:15:31,890 --> 00:15:34,851
I'm a hairstylist,
so we did a little bartering.

257
00:15:36,979 --> 00:15:40,565
About 15 minutes after I got there,
there was a buzz at the door.

258
00:15:41,650 --> 00:15:45,237
It was almost like a bit of a blur
of two people coming in,

259
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,031
but you could tell from the size of them…

260
00:15:48,115 --> 00:15:51,034
One was taller than the other one,
one was better-looking.

261
00:15:52,536 --> 00:15:53,912
I didn't know them from Adam.

262
00:15:54,663 --> 00:16:00,002
The taller one of the two took a gun
out from his waistband and said,

263
00:16:00,085 --> 00:16:03,213
"Everybody get on the ground
and put your arms behind your back."

264
00:16:03,922 --> 00:16:06,049
I mean, I just did what I was told, and…

265
00:16:06,883 --> 00:16:10,762
I thought maybe that would keep it
from anything escalating, but…

266
00:16:14,433 --> 00:16:17,686
One of them took my friend Jennifer
into the other room.

267
00:16:17,769 --> 00:16:20,564
I remember, um, her saying,

268
00:16:20,647 --> 00:16:23,650
"Please, take whatever you want.
Just don't hurt my friends."

269
00:16:23,734 --> 00:16:27,446
And with that, that's when
I heard the first gunshot go off.

270
00:16:27,529 --> 00:16:30,532
[intense, foreboding music pulsing]

271
00:16:30,615 --> 00:16:31,616
[gunshot]

272
00:16:34,202 --> 00:16:37,581
And I guess he… he…
he killed her right there.

273
00:16:42,252 --> 00:16:45,422
I just didn't hear her again after that.

274
00:16:46,465 --> 00:16:48,258
So I think I… I just think I…

275
00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:49,760
I knew then…

276
00:16:50,594 --> 00:16:51,887
"This is it."

277
00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:53,597
You know, I figured we're…

278
00:16:54,473 --> 00:16:56,475
There wasn't gonna be anything else.

279
00:16:57,225 --> 00:16:59,227
[delicate, somber music playing]

280
00:17:02,731 --> 00:17:03,774
[Zeins] In New York City,

281
00:17:03,857 --> 00:17:07,402
there's no telephone notifications
when someone dies. It's face-to-face.

282
00:17:07,486 --> 00:17:10,947
You gotta go knock on this person's door
in the middle of the night

283
00:17:11,031 --> 00:17:14,451
or middle of the day, and tell them
that someone in their family's deceased.

284
00:17:14,534 --> 00:17:16,161
That's really the hardest part.

285
00:17:16,244 --> 00:17:18,121
Those words
don't come out of your mouth easy,

286
00:17:18,205 --> 00:17:22,250
to say that their loved one
has been murdered.

287
00:17:22,334 --> 00:17:25,545
You know, tragically like this,
and senselessly, and…

288
00:17:25,629 --> 00:17:28,090
It's… I think there's another level to it.

289
00:17:28,173 --> 00:17:29,925
And, you know, I just…

290
00:17:30,008 --> 00:17:34,387
You can just feel it,
when people learn it for the first time.

291
00:17:34,471 --> 00:17:35,847
So it's just…

292
00:17:35,931 --> 00:17:38,558
Yeah. Yeah. It's not an easy thing.

293
00:17:38,642 --> 00:17:40,644
[somber, restrained music playing]

294
00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:46,566
-It was May 11th that we found out.
-Eleventh.

295
00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:50,195
My mom and dad, they were on the Cape,
and a police officer came to their house.

296
00:17:50,278 --> 00:17:53,782
My mother was watering her flowers
in her bathrobe, and two…

297
00:17:53,865 --> 00:17:55,242
At 6:00 in the morning.

298
00:17:55,325 --> 00:17:59,329
…two policemen walked down the driveway
and said, "Are you Karen Helliwell?"

299
00:17:59,412 --> 00:18:03,125
-She said she had this sinking sensation.
-Her heart sunk. Yeah.

300
00:18:03,208 --> 00:18:05,836
And they're like, "Is your husband here?"

301
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:07,754
He was, so they sat them down.

302
00:18:07,838 --> 00:18:10,006
And they told them
the news that Trey was dead.

303
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:13,718
-Yeah.
-Our lives were forever changed that day.

304
00:18:16,346 --> 00:18:18,223
[Jennifer] Two days later
was his birthday,

305
00:18:18,306 --> 00:18:20,016
and it was lilac season.

306
00:18:20,934 --> 00:18:22,602
He absolutely loved lilacs.

307
00:18:22,686 --> 00:18:25,522
He was born and he died in lilac.

308
00:18:25,605 --> 00:18:27,232
The height of its glory.

309
00:18:27,315 --> 00:18:28,316
[Holly] Mm-hmm.

310
00:18:31,778 --> 00:18:33,655
We knew Trey was coming to New York

311
00:18:33,738 --> 00:18:37,242
to meet Rosemond's family
and to attend a cousin's wedding.

312
00:18:39,494 --> 00:18:44,166
And they were supposed to stay at
Jennifer Stahl's Carnegie Deli apartment.

313
00:18:44,249 --> 00:18:47,377
-Yeah.
-And so that's how they ended up there.

314
00:18:48,378 --> 00:18:50,130
[Cramer] My heart goes out to them.

315
00:18:51,298 --> 00:18:53,592
Rosemond came to visit Jen,

316
00:18:53,675 --> 00:18:57,470
but I felt it was really sad
because Trey didn't really know Jen.

317
00:18:59,181 --> 00:19:02,601
Just, you know, a friend of a friend,
hanging out with her.

318
00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:05,478
[intense, erratic music playing]

319
00:19:07,189 --> 00:19:10,275
[Parrino] In this case,
we raised 18 fingerprints

320
00:19:10,358 --> 00:19:14,237
between inside the apartment
and on the banister.

321
00:19:14,321 --> 00:19:18,074
But we collected no ballistic shells.
So that tells you something.

322
00:19:18,158 --> 00:19:21,036
Five shots. You don't find any shells.

323
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,163
You're probably looking at a revolver.

324
00:19:24,623 --> 00:19:27,918
[Zeins] Maybe they threw a weapon,
the gun, in the sewer.

325
00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:30,879
We call DEP. We look at the garbage here.

326
00:19:30,962 --> 00:19:33,590
We have people lookin'
in garbage cans on the street.

327
00:19:34,174 --> 00:19:38,303
You're doing everything
to get as much information as possible.

328
00:19:41,014 --> 00:19:44,643
[McNeely] There had been
a camera installed in the staircase.

329
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,312
That night, they discovered that.

330
00:19:50,148 --> 00:19:52,984
The surveillance video
depicted two male Blacks.

331
00:19:53,068 --> 00:19:57,113
One had dreads and a hoodie,
and the other one had shorter hair.

332
00:19:58,531 --> 00:20:00,784
[Wagner] In my history,

333
00:20:00,867 --> 00:20:04,287
in the hundreds of homicides I worked on,

334
00:20:04,371 --> 00:20:09,209
only one other than this had video in it.

335
00:20:10,210 --> 00:20:13,129
So I was surprised when I saw the tape.

336
00:20:13,630 --> 00:20:17,259
I was like, "Whoa.
This is… This is very good."

337
00:20:17,342 --> 00:20:19,427
We knew those people were suspects,

338
00:20:19,511 --> 00:20:22,347
people we wanted
to get into contact with and speak to.

339
00:20:28,645 --> 00:20:30,730
[Rivera] This case happened at 7:30 p.m.

340
00:20:31,231 --> 00:20:34,150
We worked around the clock
in the same place.

341
00:20:34,234 --> 00:20:36,528
In Jennifer's apartment,
there was an answering machine.

342
00:20:36,611 --> 00:20:38,822
It was blinking. We hit play.

343
00:20:40,031 --> 00:20:43,368
Her friend was asking is she okay.

344
00:20:43,451 --> 00:20:46,871
She hadn't heard from her
and was wondering where she was.

345
00:20:46,955 --> 00:20:51,751
I had called Jennifer's house
while the murders were happening.

346
00:20:52,377 --> 00:20:54,629
[Rivera] Based on that,
we needed to interview her friend,

347
00:20:54,713 --> 00:20:56,798
find out why she was worried about her.

348
00:20:56,881 --> 00:20:59,801
Why was she concerned
that Jennifer wasn't answering her phone?

349
00:20:59,884 --> 00:21:01,886
[tense, arresting music playing]

350
00:21:06,224 --> 00:21:08,685
[Coleman] The morning of May 11,

351
00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:12,981
homicide detectives walked into my house.

352
00:21:13,565 --> 00:21:17,444
They looked like
they were off of a set of NYPD Blue.

353
00:21:18,028 --> 00:21:22,073
And they asked me
questions about her business.

354
00:21:22,657 --> 00:21:26,119
I said to them,
"It was a place to gather."

355
00:21:26,619 --> 00:21:30,665
It was just, like, friends hanging out,
and people smoking, talking.

356
00:21:30,749 --> 00:21:33,668
So they were people
that you met in passing,

357
00:21:33,752 --> 00:21:36,004
but we didn't necessarily become friends.

358
00:21:36,588 --> 00:21:40,925
Jennifer sold weed to support her artwork.

359
00:21:41,009 --> 00:21:44,095
We learned that she was an actress
that was in Dirty Dancing.

360
00:21:45,847 --> 00:21:51,227
But music was more of an interest to her
at that point than dancing and acting was.

361
00:21:51,311 --> 00:21:53,021
[Stahl singing] ♪ Ganja woman ♪

362
00:21:53,104 --> 00:21:56,941
[Cramer] Her recording studio
was the room that she dealt pot out of.

363
00:21:57,025 --> 00:22:00,362
She did also love to bring friends in
and record with them too.

364
00:22:01,196 --> 00:22:04,240
[Coleman] People that came
in and out of Jennifer's apartment

365
00:22:04,324 --> 00:22:06,117
were Jennifer's friends.

366
00:22:06,701 --> 00:22:08,119
[Cramer] It was just getting busier.

367
00:22:08,203 --> 00:22:11,664
I think it seemed chaotic
to her sometimes, hard to manage.

368
00:22:11,748 --> 00:22:13,041
Her buzzer going off.

369
00:22:13,124 --> 00:22:17,754
Occasionally, she would have a friend
there who would help manage the door.

370
00:22:17,837 --> 00:22:19,422
[low, somber music playing]

371
00:22:19,506 --> 00:22:22,050
[Coleman] Stephen was there
working that night,

372
00:22:22,133 --> 00:22:23,968
answering the door for her.

373
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,936
She was basically dealing to her friends
and people that she knew in the industry.

374
00:22:33,019 --> 00:22:34,896
She dealt with some famous people.

375
00:22:34,979 --> 00:22:37,315
Saturday Night Live cast,
things like that.

376
00:22:37,399 --> 00:22:39,651
Her clientele was, like, well-vetted.

377
00:22:39,734 --> 00:22:41,444
She had to know you.

378
00:22:41,528 --> 00:22:43,488
If you said, "So-and-so sent me,"

379
00:22:43,571 --> 00:22:46,491
I don't think you're getting buzzed up
into Jennifer's apartment. She was…

380
00:22:46,574 --> 00:22:48,076
She was ultra careful.

381
00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:51,830
[Coleman] This was very hard
for us as her friends,

382
00:22:51,913 --> 00:22:56,709
because if they wanted something from Jen,

383
00:22:56,793 --> 00:22:59,129
she would have given it to them.

384
00:22:59,212 --> 00:23:03,591
There was no reason to shoot five people.

385
00:23:03,675 --> 00:23:05,677
[somber, pensive music playing]

386
00:23:06,761 --> 00:23:12,350
[Coleman] I saw Jen
just a few days before her murder,

387
00:23:13,351 --> 00:23:15,478
and she was quite upset.

388
00:23:16,062 --> 00:23:19,524
Jennifer had been fighting
with her boyfriend.

389
00:23:19,607 --> 00:23:22,819
I believe she was trying to leave,
and he grabbed her hand,

390
00:23:22,902 --> 00:23:25,196
and so her finger got broken.

391
00:23:28,241 --> 00:23:33,455
One of the suspects
was the Black man with long dreads.

392
00:23:35,582 --> 00:23:41,421
I felt very certain
that her boyfriend had killed her,

393
00:23:42,797 --> 00:23:45,675
because he fit that description.

394
00:23:47,218 --> 00:23:51,389
With the information we got from Barbara,
we got Jennifer Stahl's boyfriend's name,

395
00:23:52,474 --> 00:23:54,184
and then we had to go interview him.

396
00:23:54,684 --> 00:23:56,769
There's some domestic issues
going on there.

397
00:23:56,853 --> 00:24:00,190
We had to make sure
he was not involved in this homicide.

398
00:24:01,399 --> 00:24:03,818
[Veader] I was positive
it wasn't her boyfriend.

399
00:24:03,902 --> 00:24:05,695
I didn't think it looked like him.

400
00:24:05,778 --> 00:24:08,448
I had met him,
and he was always very nice to me,

401
00:24:08,531 --> 00:24:11,784
and I don't think
that he would do something like that.

402
00:24:11,868 --> 00:24:13,870
[tense, intriguing music pulsing]

403
00:24:14,412 --> 00:24:16,623
We interviewed Jennifer Stahl's boyfriend,

404
00:24:16,706 --> 00:24:19,709
but he was ruled out
based on information he gave us

405
00:24:19,792 --> 00:24:22,003
as to where he was, what he was doing.

406
00:24:22,086 --> 00:24:24,422
We knew he was not the perpetrator.

407
00:24:24,506 --> 00:24:26,090
When he called me,

408
00:24:27,342 --> 00:24:29,302
he said, "I had to get a lawyer."

409
00:24:29,385 --> 00:24:31,763
"Everybody thought it was me."

410
00:24:32,388 --> 00:24:34,641
I said, "Yes, I thought it was you."

411
00:24:35,558 --> 00:24:40,230
And he said to me,
"How could you have thought it was me?"

412
00:24:40,313 --> 00:24:42,190
"I loved her!"

413
00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:46,110
I said, "You guys were fighting."

414
00:24:46,194 --> 00:24:47,695
"She had a broken finger,

415
00:24:47,779 --> 00:24:50,907
and they said a Black man
with long dreads left the scene."

416
00:24:51,574 --> 00:24:53,409
I said, "Who was I to think?"

417
00:24:53,910 --> 00:24:56,162
He said,
"How could you think I would hurt her?"

418
00:24:58,248 --> 00:25:00,124
I apologized to him.

419
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,962
[mysterious, puzzling music playing]

420
00:25:06,631 --> 00:25:09,133
[Veader] After I was released
from the hospital,

421
00:25:09,217 --> 00:25:13,012
the detectives told me that
Rosemond's gonna be in there a lot longer,

422
00:25:13,096 --> 00:25:15,390
and that the bullet lodged in her jaw.

423
00:25:16,641 --> 00:25:17,892
We didn't know each other.

424
00:25:17,976 --> 00:25:22,438
We just were both
the victims of an awful circumstance.

425
00:25:22,522 --> 00:25:24,274
Her more so than me.

426
00:25:24,357 --> 00:25:27,068
I mean, she lost her, you know…

427
00:25:28,528 --> 00:25:30,238
her other half, so…

428
00:25:31,197 --> 00:25:32,365
Um…

429
00:25:32,448 --> 00:25:33,950
I can't even imagine.

430
00:25:38,121 --> 00:25:39,330
[lawyer] As the prosecutor,

431
00:25:40,456 --> 00:25:45,712
I have to extract as much information
as I can as quickly as I can,

432
00:25:46,296 --> 00:25:49,799
but also be mindful of the fact
that this is traumatic

433
00:25:49,882 --> 00:25:53,595
to talk in detail about something
that they just want to forget.

434
00:25:56,264 --> 00:25:59,559
I remember speaking to Rosemond
two days later.

435
00:26:02,854 --> 00:26:06,399
Rosemond was describing
how the sound of the gunshots

436
00:26:06,482 --> 00:26:08,776
were coming closer and closer to her,

437
00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:12,030
and she was next in line.

438
00:26:12,113 --> 00:26:18,745
She heard the shot that killed her fiancé,
Charles Helliwell.

439
00:26:19,704 --> 00:26:23,666
I can't imagine laying there,
hearing the shots go off,

440
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:25,501
and knowing that you're next.

441
00:26:26,836 --> 00:26:28,838
[Nuzzi] If it was the last thing
she was gonna do,

442
00:26:28,921 --> 00:26:32,550
she was gonna turn around
and see the person who killed her,

443
00:26:32,634 --> 00:26:35,845
and she moved and turned her head

444
00:26:35,928 --> 00:26:38,264
at the last moment before she was shot.

445
00:26:38,348 --> 00:26:40,850
That might very well have saved her life.

446
00:26:45,021 --> 00:26:50,985
Rosemond said that the initial buzzer ring
was answered by Stephen King.

447
00:26:51,069 --> 00:26:56,699
And she heard Stephen King say,
"It's Sean," to Jennifer.

448
00:26:56,783 --> 00:26:59,077
And Jennifer said, "Okay. Let him up."

449
00:27:00,745 --> 00:27:05,541
And so it was at that point
that we had initially the name "Sean."

450
00:27:05,625 --> 00:27:06,876
We didn't have a last name,

451
00:27:06,959 --> 00:27:10,254
but we had at least a first name
for one of the two people.

452
00:27:13,424 --> 00:27:15,426
[enigmatic music playing]

453
00:27:19,555 --> 00:27:21,891
[Parrino] The two main leads we had

454
00:27:21,974 --> 00:27:25,144
were the fact
that there was a name of "Sean,"

455
00:27:25,228 --> 00:27:28,356
and the fact that there was a video.

456
00:27:28,439 --> 00:27:30,775
Those were the two main things
we had to go on.

457
00:27:30,858 --> 00:27:33,695
I know that there's
a number of prints that are removed,

458
00:27:33,778 --> 00:27:36,614
but we don't know the value,
or whether it's gonna lead us to anything,

459
00:27:36,698 --> 00:27:39,409
or whether it was
the police commissioner's.

460
00:27:40,201 --> 00:27:42,829
[McNeely] They interviewed people
that purchased weed from her,

461
00:27:42,912 --> 00:27:43,913
were friends with her.

462
00:27:43,996 --> 00:27:46,249
They were trying to run down
whatever leads they could

463
00:27:46,332 --> 00:27:47,667
and make connections.

464
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:50,670
It could be somebody that knows 'em
and knows the person "Sean."

465
00:27:51,671 --> 00:27:54,507
[Cramer] When I saw the footage,
I didn't recognize Sean.

466
00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:59,137
I… I really didn't know
who it could have been.

467
00:27:59,721 --> 00:28:02,140
[Parrino] When we were searching
the apartment and crime scene,

468
00:28:02,223 --> 00:28:05,017
after the initial
forensic collection is made,

469
00:28:05,101 --> 00:28:07,645
then you go back in looking for leads.

470
00:28:07,729 --> 00:28:09,689
Things that aren't forensically connected,

471
00:28:09,772 --> 00:28:12,066
pieces of paper, photographs,
this kind of thing.

472
00:28:12,150 --> 00:28:16,446
And we found a résumé
which gave us the first steps to a "Sean."

473
00:28:16,529 --> 00:28:18,281
Apparently, he was a roadie

474
00:28:18,364 --> 00:28:21,242
for George Clinton
and the Parliament-Funkadelic.

475
00:28:22,285 --> 00:28:27,165
Jen always tried
to connect people to create things.

476
00:28:27,749 --> 00:28:30,334
That was really
a big part of what she did.

477
00:28:31,377 --> 00:28:33,337
[erratic, unsettling music playing]

478
00:28:33,421 --> 00:28:37,633
They went to the address
that Sean Salley had listed on his résumé,

479
00:28:37,717 --> 00:28:41,095
and he wasn't living there.
He had left that place.

480
00:28:43,181 --> 00:28:45,975
[Parrino] We were concentrating on Sean,

481
00:28:46,976 --> 00:28:50,104
and we ended up with numerous addresses
in New Jersey.

482
00:28:56,027 --> 00:29:00,782
Detectives had contacted
every single person, just about,

483
00:29:00,865 --> 00:29:02,366
in his life that he knew.

484
00:29:03,075 --> 00:29:08,164
One of those individuals viewed
the videotape from the Carnegie Deli

485
00:29:08,247 --> 00:29:10,208
and recognized Sean Salley.

486
00:29:12,502 --> 00:29:16,798
Significantly, they knew the second person
who we were trying to identify.

487
00:29:16,881 --> 00:29:19,050
They knew his nickname was "Dre."

488
00:29:20,259 --> 00:29:22,303
So they started to run him down.

489
00:29:22,386 --> 00:29:25,515
We're going to different homes,
interviewin' people.

490
00:29:25,598 --> 00:29:30,186
And we go to…
And I recall it as his girlfriend's home.

491
00:29:31,103 --> 00:29:33,689
[Nuzzi] She knew someone named Dre,

492
00:29:33,773 --> 00:29:37,401
her boyfriend/common-law husband, Andre.

493
00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:40,154
[Parrino] Andre wasn't there.

494
00:29:40,655 --> 00:29:44,367
I was the only one who had business cards.
I think that's why my card gets left.

495
00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:46,452
[foreboding music playing]

496
00:29:56,712 --> 00:29:58,923
[Parrino] Sunday morning, the 20th…

497
00:29:59,882 --> 00:30:01,384
[ringing]

498
00:30:01,467 --> 00:30:03,761
[Parrino] We get a phone call
at the office.

499
00:30:03,845 --> 00:30:05,137
It… It's Andre.

500
00:30:06,764 --> 00:30:08,933
And he's willing to talk to us.

501
00:30:09,976 --> 00:30:13,688
Andre Smith showed up,
ironically, in a red car

502
00:30:13,771 --> 00:30:18,860
that fit the description of the car
that a witness saw driving away

503
00:30:18,943 --> 00:30:21,779
in close proximity
to where the murders occurred.

504
00:30:22,446 --> 00:30:24,031
When Andre Smith came in,

505
00:30:24,115 --> 00:30:26,659
we asked him
if he can give a set of prints,

506
00:30:26,742 --> 00:30:29,370
which he agreed to,
and they took his prints.

507
00:30:29,453 --> 00:30:33,207
[Parrino] I can only assume he thought
he was gonna be smart enough

508
00:30:33,291 --> 00:30:35,960
to keep us at bay
and never get trapped into anything,

509
00:30:36,043 --> 00:30:37,712
but totally show cooperation.

510
00:30:37,795 --> 00:30:39,630
I'm assuming that was his goal.

511
00:30:39,714 --> 00:30:42,717
The two people who spoke to him
had him in the room for a long time.

512
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,927
These are senior detectives, senior to us.

513
00:30:45,887 --> 00:30:48,306
They continued speaking to him for hours.

514
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:53,102
Then when they weren't getting anywhere,
then the next team comes in.

515
00:30:53,185 --> 00:30:55,021
Fresh people who'd slept all night.

516
00:30:55,688 --> 00:31:00,067
[Parrino] It's kinda like
this endless supply of pinch hitters

517
00:31:00,568 --> 00:31:04,113
until you find the pinch hitter
that makes the connection,

518
00:31:04,196 --> 00:31:05,281
then you run with it.

519
00:31:06,699 --> 00:31:09,994
Billy and Tommy Bidell go in there
and start trying to talk to him.

520
00:31:11,787 --> 00:31:15,583
[McNeely] He denied being in Manhattan,
denied being at the scene,

521
00:31:15,666 --> 00:31:19,128
denied having any knowledge
of who Sean Salley was.

522
00:31:19,211 --> 00:31:23,132
I showed him still photos
of the video surveillance tape.

523
00:31:23,215 --> 00:31:27,470
And Andre Smith's face
is right there for him to see.

524
00:31:27,553 --> 00:31:29,263
And, "Nope." He denied it.

525
00:31:29,347 --> 00:31:31,349
He was like that…

526
00:31:31,432 --> 00:31:34,518
What was that song?
That Shaggy song. "It Wasn't Me."

527
00:31:34,602 --> 00:31:37,855
He does a very good job at denying it,
but keeps on talking…

528
00:31:38,522 --> 00:31:40,191
And, you know, there's always…

529
00:31:40,274 --> 00:31:42,902
Detectives always joke
about the "levels of denial."

530
00:31:42,985 --> 00:31:45,529
"I don't know what you're talking about.
I wasn't there."

531
00:31:45,613 --> 00:31:47,907
"I know what you're talking about.
I wasn't there."

532
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:49,992
"I was there, but I didn't do it."

533
00:31:50,076 --> 00:31:53,204
To eventually,
"I was there, and I did it."

534
00:31:53,287 --> 00:31:56,624
So we're walkin' him
through those levels of denial.

535
00:31:56,707 --> 00:31:58,334
There comes a point in time

536
00:31:58,417 --> 00:32:04,674
where we are able to match his prints
while he's in there to the duct tape.

537
00:32:04,757 --> 00:32:07,176
And that becomes extremely important,

538
00:32:07,259 --> 00:32:10,846
because up to that point,
we're pretty sure he's in there.

539
00:32:10,930 --> 00:32:14,183
We feel very strongly he's involved,

540
00:32:14,266 --> 00:32:18,854
but you don't have physical evidence
that puts him on the scene at the time.

541
00:32:18,938 --> 00:32:23,275
It's a tremendous confidence builder
for the interrogators

542
00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:25,361
that they're in the right place.

543
00:32:25,444 --> 00:32:28,572
And now they could probably push
a little harder

544
00:32:29,073 --> 00:32:31,200
because they know he was there

545
00:32:31,283 --> 00:32:35,246
as opposed to pushing him to a place
they don't know the answer to.

546
00:32:35,746 --> 00:32:37,331
We had been in there several hours.

547
00:32:37,415 --> 00:32:40,543
We approached it from different angles
'cause he was not moving.

548
00:32:42,044 --> 00:32:43,671
This guy was tough enough.

549
00:32:43,754 --> 00:32:46,549
We know six detectives spoke to him
and basically told him,

550
00:32:46,632 --> 00:32:50,553
"We have you red-handed,"
and he still fuckin' denied it, you know?

551
00:32:52,930 --> 00:32:56,851
Tom Bidell and I are talkin'
and trying to figure out another strategy.

552
00:32:58,102 --> 00:32:59,687
And Irma came into the room.

553
00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:02,732
She said, "Would you guys mind
if I went in and talked to him

554
00:33:02,815 --> 00:33:04,316
just now while he's eating?"

555
00:33:04,984 --> 00:33:08,904
I was like, "No, Irma. Have at it."
Fresh face, that's my thinking.

556
00:33:08,988 --> 00:33:12,408
Anything just to, you know,
change up what's been going on.

557
00:33:12,491 --> 00:33:14,493
[tense, erratic music playing]

558
00:33:15,619 --> 00:33:18,164
"Let a female go in there.
See if you can soften him up."

559
00:33:20,833 --> 00:33:22,418
I don't know Andre Smith.

560
00:33:22,501 --> 00:33:24,503
I don't know
who the person is I'm interviewing

561
00:33:24,587 --> 00:33:25,880
till I sit in front of them.

562
00:33:26,756 --> 00:33:30,342
Then I can more or less read them.
I can read what they're like.

563
00:33:30,426 --> 00:33:32,178
You know, what triggers them.

564
00:33:32,261 --> 00:33:34,180
I go,
"You remind me of my brother, Ruben."

565
00:33:34,263 --> 00:33:37,099
'Cause he did.
He reminded me of my brother Ruben a bit.

566
00:33:37,183 --> 00:33:40,352
I'll talk to perpetrators
more on a personal level,

567
00:33:40,436 --> 00:33:42,813
and then go into an interrogation.

568
00:33:44,148 --> 00:33:45,316
And it works for me,

569
00:33:45,399 --> 00:33:47,818
'cause I make them feel comfortable
with me.

570
00:33:48,444 --> 00:33:49,695
But I've had prisoners who said,

571
00:33:49,779 --> 00:33:53,407
"That Rivera smiled in my face
and stabbed me in the back." You know.

572
00:33:54,366 --> 00:33:57,620
[Parrino] Irma has this ability
to read the suspect

573
00:33:57,703 --> 00:34:01,874
and figure out where it is
that she has to make her connection

574
00:34:01,957 --> 00:34:05,836
so that she can continue
and get the answers that she needs.

575
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,006
I don't care
if you're wearing a $5,000 suit,

576
00:34:09,090 --> 00:34:13,260
or if you're, uh, homeless wearing
a pair of sweatpants and dirty sneakers.

577
00:34:13,344 --> 00:34:16,347
It doesn't make a difference to me.
I treat everybody with respect.

578
00:34:16,430 --> 00:34:18,099
Everybody who's bad,

579
00:34:18,182 --> 00:34:20,893
there's still something good in them,
no matter what.

580
00:34:21,644 --> 00:34:25,272
You gotta find that good spot in them
when you interview them.

581
00:34:25,356 --> 00:34:27,483
"How did you grow up?"
"I grew up the same way."

582
00:34:27,566 --> 00:34:31,195
I didn't have toys when I was a kid.
I didn't have Christmas sometimes.

583
00:34:31,278 --> 00:34:32,822
We didn't have food sometimes.

584
00:34:32,905 --> 00:34:36,117
I grew up in a housing project,
so I can relate to them.

585
00:34:38,702 --> 00:34:41,622
Andre Smith was very polite.

586
00:34:41,705 --> 00:34:43,082
He was kinda soft-spoken.

587
00:34:44,416 --> 00:34:46,001
He said he has a baby.

588
00:34:46,877 --> 00:34:50,464
"Oh, you have a baby?" I know
that's gonna bring something soft in him.

589
00:34:53,342 --> 00:34:54,218
I use that.

590
00:34:56,428 --> 00:34:59,390
[McNeely] All of a sudden,
I just noticed these inflections.

591
00:34:59,473 --> 00:35:01,475
He picked his head up.

592
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:04,103
He was engaged. He was listening to her.

593
00:35:04,186 --> 00:35:07,273
You could see
his eyes kinda brightened up a bit.

594
00:35:08,149 --> 00:35:10,067
She hit something. Like a nerve.

595
00:35:14,238 --> 00:35:18,033
He told me he did it 'cause
he needed to get diapers for his kid.

596
00:35:18,534 --> 00:35:20,619
That's when I thought he was ready.

597
00:35:20,703 --> 00:35:24,123
I said, "They're gonna come back in.
They're great guys. They're my friends."

598
00:35:24,206 --> 00:35:26,125
"You can talk to them.
You can trust them."

599
00:35:26,208 --> 00:35:28,210
[tense music playing]

600
00:35:29,253 --> 00:35:30,963
[McNeely] Irma gave us the signal.

601
00:35:31,547 --> 00:35:34,425
I had to turn around.
I interrupted Tommy Bidell

602
00:35:34,508 --> 00:35:37,261
'cause he was eatin' a fuckin' Suzy Q
and drinkin' a Yoo-hoo,

603
00:35:37,344 --> 00:35:40,097
which was his dinner of choice, usually.

604
00:35:40,181 --> 00:35:42,391
I was like, "Hey, shithead, let's go."

605
00:35:42,474 --> 00:35:44,435
"Dump that Suzy Q. Let's get back in."

606
00:35:44,518 --> 00:35:47,021
"This guy's changing up.
Let's go and take a hit."

607
00:35:47,104 --> 00:35:50,441
This is an interrogation
by a team at its best.

608
00:35:51,358 --> 00:35:55,237
Irma gets this real personal connection
where he's ready to go.

609
00:35:55,321 --> 00:35:58,199
It's that tipping point
where they're done with the denial

610
00:35:58,282 --> 00:36:02,369
and they're ready to…
and they're ready to vomit information.

611
00:36:05,247 --> 00:36:07,833
He's nodding his head
when I'm asking him questions.

612
00:36:07,917 --> 00:36:10,211
We were able to get Andre to speak.

613
00:36:10,294 --> 00:36:14,465
And he said he met Sean Salley
in Newark through a mutual friend.

614
00:36:14,548 --> 00:36:17,343
Sean Salley was saying
how he was down on his luck,

615
00:36:17,426 --> 00:36:18,260
didn't have money,

616
00:36:18,344 --> 00:36:23,015
and brought about this plan
to… to rob a weed spot in Manhattan.

617
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:27,478
Then finally Andre Smith
gave an account, anyway, of the murders.

618
00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:30,189
He intended to go in,
rob the weed, rob the money.

619
00:36:31,106 --> 00:36:33,317
And he said, "I even told the girl

620
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,861
when she said, 'Don't hurt me.
Don't hurt my friends.'"

621
00:36:35,945 --> 00:36:38,656
He said, "I told her
that's not what I'm here for."

622
00:36:38,739 --> 00:36:41,158
She was bagging up the money
and the weed for him.

623
00:36:41,242 --> 00:36:44,954
He looked out. Salley was struggling
to get everybody taped up.

624
00:36:45,037 --> 00:36:47,831
So he went out and said,
"Here, you stay with her."

625
00:36:48,415 --> 00:36:49,625
Started to tape everybody,

626
00:36:49,708 --> 00:36:54,046
and then he said,
"This guy started shootin' everybody."

627
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:55,631
[gunshot]

628
00:36:55,714 --> 00:36:57,716
[low, ominous music playing]

629
00:37:00,135 --> 00:37:03,222
[Parrino] Once we were into
the written statement

630
00:37:03,305 --> 00:37:05,474
for the confession of Andre Smith,

631
00:37:05,557 --> 00:37:08,852
I get wind that
the police commissioner took exception

632
00:37:08,936 --> 00:37:12,898
to me, uh, correcting his photographer.

633
00:37:13,399 --> 00:37:17,736
He also took exception
to me showing up in shorts and a T-shirt.

634
00:37:18,737 --> 00:37:19,947
Within a day or two,

635
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:23,492
I'm removed from the case
by the police commissioner.

636
00:37:23,993 --> 00:37:28,038
I'm transferred
to the 2-5 Precinct in Harlem

637
00:37:28,122 --> 00:37:30,165
and to the detective squad there.

638
00:37:31,542 --> 00:37:35,212
Irma goes, "Take his name
and put it on a piece of paper."

639
00:37:35,296 --> 00:37:37,298
"Put that piece of paper in your shoe,

640
00:37:37,381 --> 00:37:40,676
step on him every day for ten days,
and it's all gonna work out."

641
00:37:42,803 --> 00:37:45,889
This was my father's mother.
She was into Santería.

642
00:37:45,973 --> 00:37:47,725
She believed so much in that.

643
00:37:47,808 --> 00:37:50,602
She taught me,
when anybody does anything wrong to you,

644
00:37:50,686 --> 00:37:52,980
take a piece of paper,
put their name in it…

645
00:37:53,063 --> 00:37:54,940
I know you're all gonna be doing this now.

646
00:37:55,024 --> 00:37:58,402
You take their name, put that in your shoe
and you walk on them.

647
00:37:58,485 --> 00:38:01,905
You walk on them and tell them
you want that person out of your path.

648
00:38:03,532 --> 00:38:06,660
[Parrino] So it is hard to walk away
because you kinda own it.

649
00:38:06,744 --> 00:38:10,539
But I can't be givin' my thoughts
or directions to the detectives

650
00:38:10,622 --> 00:38:12,082
and undermining the new boss.

651
00:38:12,166 --> 00:38:14,293
Because now somebody else is responsible.

652
00:38:14,376 --> 00:38:17,254
If they call you up
and ask for your advice, that's great.

653
00:38:17,338 --> 00:38:20,507
But you don't go callin' them,
offering advice, right?

654
00:38:20,591 --> 00:38:22,676
And it's difficult for them too now

655
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,512
because they know
the police commissioner's mad at you.

656
00:38:26,013 --> 00:38:28,015
They're not interested in talking to you

657
00:38:28,098 --> 00:38:30,017
because they don't want
your stink on them.

658
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:32,102
So, um…

659
00:38:33,062 --> 00:38:37,399
I forced myself
to completely remove myself from the case.

660
00:38:37,483 --> 00:38:40,069
I don't even think I followed it
too much in the media afterwards.

661
00:38:52,581 --> 00:38:59,088
They killed three people,
shot two execution-style, for $2,800.

662
00:38:59,171 --> 00:39:03,050
The New York City Police Department
has in custody Mr. Andre Smith.

663
00:39:04,343 --> 00:39:07,971
To the second suspect
responsible for these heinous crimes,

664
00:39:08,055 --> 00:39:11,892
who detectives
have identified as Sean Salley,

665
00:39:11,975 --> 00:39:15,229
make no mistake
that the New York City Police Department

666
00:39:15,312 --> 00:39:18,899
will be relentless
until he is in our custody

667
00:39:18,982 --> 00:39:20,818
alongside his accomplice.

668
00:39:21,318 --> 00:39:24,613
My suggestion is that
he follow Andre Smith's lead

669
00:39:24,696 --> 00:39:27,658
and turn himself in
at the nearest police station.

670
00:39:29,576 --> 00:39:33,831
[Nuzzi] Andre Smith said that he left
the apartment with Sean Salley.

671
00:39:33,914 --> 00:39:35,374
They went back to Newark,

672
00:39:35,457 --> 00:39:38,544
and that was the last time
he saw Sean Salley.

673
00:39:39,962 --> 00:39:41,922
[Rivera] We have to continue
looking for Salley.

674
00:39:42,005 --> 00:39:44,341
We gotta get a phone number,
find out who he's calling,

675
00:39:44,425 --> 00:39:45,843
and then track the phone.

676
00:39:47,302 --> 00:39:50,264
So what we were doing
is we were tracking the cell sites.

677
00:39:51,098 --> 00:39:53,183
He had stopped in Louisiana.

678
00:39:54,601 --> 00:39:56,019
[McNeely] We had a team of people,

679
00:39:56,103 --> 00:39:59,148
of detectives and sergeant,
down in New Orleans.

680
00:39:59,231 --> 00:40:01,775
Salley, he just seemed
to be one step ahead.

681
00:40:02,609 --> 00:40:05,487
At that point, you just keep continuing,

682
00:40:05,571 --> 00:40:08,657
see if you can get phone information,
but he got rid of his phone.

683
00:40:08,740 --> 00:40:11,285
We had run out of investigative leads.

684
00:40:12,828 --> 00:40:16,707
We're still pursuing it,
but now it's, like, two months.

685
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:18,834
You know, the case goes cold.

686
00:40:20,043 --> 00:40:23,130
We applied to have the case
put on America's Most Wanted.

687
00:40:24,131 --> 00:40:27,134
[Nuzzi] On July 14th,
America's Most Wanted

688
00:40:27,217 --> 00:40:31,013
aired the Sean Salley,
Carnegie Deli homicide case

689
00:40:31,096 --> 00:40:33,390
in an effort to get some leads.

690
00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:35,267
It's a national show.

691
00:40:35,851 --> 00:40:37,978
So it covers a tremendous amount of ground

692
00:40:38,061 --> 00:40:40,230
and you've alerted the American public.

693
00:40:40,314 --> 00:40:43,150
[multiple phones ringing]

694
00:40:43,233 --> 00:40:45,986
[Coleman] God bless America,
that's what I want to say,

695
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:49,448
because 20 minutes after that aired,

696
00:40:49,531 --> 00:40:51,450
people started calling in.

697
00:40:51,533 --> 00:40:54,203
[phones ringing]

698
00:40:54,286 --> 00:40:58,123
Someone in Florida
recognized him and notified us.

699
00:40:58,207 --> 00:41:03,086
And he was thought to be
at a homeless shelter in Miami.

700
00:41:03,170 --> 00:41:04,796
[suspenseful music pulsing]

701
00:41:06,256 --> 00:41:08,383
Miami gets contacted right away.

702
00:41:08,467 --> 00:41:11,261
And they're like,
"Hey, you need to go get this guy."

703
00:41:11,345 --> 00:41:13,055
A detective from Miami

704
00:41:13,138 --> 00:41:16,934
was interviewing people
at that homeless shelter.

705
00:41:18,018 --> 00:41:22,898
Sean Salley walked into the lobby,
and he bolted.

706
00:41:22,981 --> 00:41:28,111
The dogs tracked him down
and cornered him in someone's backyard.

707
00:41:31,657 --> 00:41:33,659
[thoughtful, somber music playing]

708
00:41:35,911 --> 00:41:38,914
[spokesperson] He was captured
by a City of Miami K9 officer.

709
00:41:38,997 --> 00:41:42,709
He did suffer a bite,
a dog bite, to the left forearm,

710
00:41:42,793 --> 00:41:45,712
but he was treated on the scene,
and we do have him in custody.

711
00:41:45,796 --> 00:41:48,757
He's facing three charges
of first-degree murder

712
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,927
and one charge
of resisting arrest without violence.

713
00:41:54,721 --> 00:41:56,765
Before they caught him, I was just like…

714
00:41:56,848 --> 00:42:00,352
Every creak that I heard,
I couldn't sleep through the night.

715
00:42:01,478 --> 00:42:03,438
I just thought somebody was coming in.

716
00:42:05,524 --> 00:42:07,317
Once both of them were caught,

717
00:42:08,569 --> 00:42:10,988
it was relief.

718
00:42:22,124 --> 00:42:25,335
[Rivera] The chief of detectives,
borough of Manhattan, at that time

719
00:42:25,419 --> 00:42:29,423
told me to go to Florida
and do the interrogation on Sean Salley.

720
00:42:33,093 --> 00:42:35,929
I really feel that sometimes
when people are on the run,

721
00:42:36,013 --> 00:42:38,015
it's kinda like a relief to get caught.

722
00:42:38,515 --> 00:42:42,853
He seemed like he was a bit relieved
that he was caught at that point.

723
00:42:42,936 --> 00:42:45,439
So I interviewed him.
I asked him what happened.

724
00:42:45,522 --> 00:42:46,940
He kinda just gave it up.

725
00:42:47,691 --> 00:42:50,902
[Nuzzi] They had gotten oral
and written statements from him

726
00:42:50,986 --> 00:42:53,071
where he admitted killing Jennifer.

727
00:42:53,155 --> 00:42:55,782
Although he said the gun went off
and it was an accident.

728
00:42:55,866 --> 00:43:00,871
And he, um, put the rest of the blame
on Andre Smith

729
00:43:00,954 --> 00:43:03,540
for the people in the living room.

730
00:43:03,624 --> 00:43:06,209
The fact that he admitted
pulling the trigger,

731
00:43:06,293 --> 00:43:10,631
accidentally or not,
to killing, uh, Jennifer Stahl,

732
00:43:10,714 --> 00:43:12,132
was significant.

733
00:43:12,215 --> 00:43:13,300
It was significant

734
00:43:13,383 --> 00:43:17,846
because it doesn't matter in a…
in a prosecution for felony murder

735
00:43:18,430 --> 00:43:21,683
whether you intentionally
or accidentally kill someone.

736
00:43:21,767 --> 00:43:25,937
In fact, it doesn't even matter
whether the person died

737
00:43:26,021 --> 00:43:28,815
because you shot them
or someone else shot them.

738
00:43:28,899 --> 00:43:31,985
If you participate
in the underlying robbery,

739
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:36,073
you are responsible
under the law for the murders

740
00:43:36,156 --> 00:43:39,117
just as much
as the person who pulled the trigger.

741
00:43:39,201 --> 00:43:42,371
[foreboding music playing]

742
00:43:42,454 --> 00:43:44,873
[reporter] Phillip King sat
in the second row of the courtroom

743
00:43:44,956 --> 00:43:48,835
for his first face-to-face encounter
with Sean Salley,

744
00:43:48,919 --> 00:43:52,464
one of the men who stands accused
of murdering King's son, Stephen.

745
00:43:52,547 --> 00:43:55,425
I just kept telling myself,
"Restrain yourself."

746
00:43:55,509 --> 00:43:58,970
"Don't jump over the rail and go for him."

747
00:43:59,638 --> 00:44:02,891
I could see it.
I could see what that man went through.

748
00:44:02,974 --> 00:44:05,435
I hope that's the relationship
I have with my son.

749
00:44:05,936 --> 00:44:07,938
I'm gettin' a little choked up here now.

750
00:44:08,730 --> 00:44:12,943
[shakily] Um, pretty sure I do, and that's
the relationship I had with my father.

751
00:44:16,238 --> 00:44:19,449
[Nuzzi] We're busy preparing
and trying to get ready for court.

752
00:44:19,533 --> 00:44:21,493
It's a year or two later for you,

753
00:44:21,576 --> 00:44:25,455
but for that mother,
or that father, or brother, or sister,

754
00:44:25,539 --> 00:44:27,416
it's like it happened yesterday.

755
00:44:31,253 --> 00:44:33,255
[portentous music pulsing]

756
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:40,887
[Parrino] It's a Tuesday.

757
00:44:41,388 --> 00:44:44,641
I'm with my children,
dropping them off at school.

758
00:44:44,725 --> 00:44:48,687
And I hear that a plane
crashed into the World Trade Center.

759
00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:51,231
[explosion rumbling faintly]

760
00:44:51,314 --> 00:44:54,067
I'm in jeans and a… and a T-shirt.

761
00:44:54,151 --> 00:44:57,070
Because of my trouble
that I ran into at the Carnegie Deli,

762
00:44:57,154 --> 00:44:58,697
I went home and put a suit on.

763
00:44:59,489 --> 00:45:01,867
I'm assuming that held me up
maybe 20 minutes.

764
00:45:01,950 --> 00:45:05,662
I actually hear the second plane hit
while I'm in my apartment.

765
00:45:05,746 --> 00:45:06,997
[chilling notes play]

766
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,331
[music halts abruptly]

767
00:45:08,415 --> 00:45:09,499
It was true…

768
00:45:09,583 --> 00:45:12,335
Like, when they say "terror,"
it was, like, terror.

769
00:45:12,419 --> 00:45:17,174
Everybody was fuckin', like,
beyond anxious and frightened.

770
00:45:17,257 --> 00:45:18,842
Everybody that you saw.

771
00:45:20,385 --> 00:45:22,763
It's unbelievable what took place there.

772
00:45:22,846 --> 00:45:26,391
When it all collapsed…
You never forget those things.

773
00:45:28,477 --> 00:45:30,479
And I lost some very good friends.

774
00:45:31,271 --> 00:45:33,732
I mean, it's a…
it's a hard thing to talk about.

775
00:45:36,109 --> 00:45:38,236
[indistinct radio chatter]

776
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,946
I survived September 11th.

777
00:45:40,697 --> 00:45:45,535
Perhaps that 20-minute change
would have put me in a different location

778
00:45:45,619 --> 00:45:47,621
that would have came up
with different results.

779
00:45:48,455 --> 00:45:53,502
And I kind of always accredited
that lesson with having to put the suit on

780
00:45:53,585 --> 00:45:57,339
and not responding in street attire
to saving my life.

781
00:46:01,802 --> 00:46:04,221
People that died that day,
God rest their memory,

782
00:46:04,304 --> 00:46:07,432
but it continued to kill people
for many years after.

783
00:46:07,516 --> 00:46:11,770
Twenty years later,
I'm diagnosed with 9/11-related cancer.

784
00:46:12,354 --> 00:46:15,857
The terrorists that did that
got more bang for their buck, so to speak.

785
00:46:16,525 --> 00:46:19,110
[Butcher] I was so wrapped up in 9/11.

786
00:46:19,820 --> 00:46:22,364
My office was turned upside down.

787
00:46:22,447 --> 00:46:25,992
That changed my life so radically.

788
00:46:26,076 --> 00:46:29,287
Changed my work life,
my personal life, everything.

789
00:46:30,288 --> 00:46:33,542
[McNeely] We were all involved,
all in the same day, all there.

790
00:46:33,625 --> 00:46:35,460
We all felt like it was necessary

791
00:46:35,544 --> 00:46:37,754
to pick each other up
and have each other's back.

792
00:46:37,838 --> 00:46:38,964
And we continued to do that.

793
00:46:39,047 --> 00:46:42,008
Then we got back into work
and did what we do well.

794
00:46:42,092 --> 00:46:44,219
And then we continued that.

795
00:46:52,644 --> 00:46:54,646
[frantic music pulsing]

796
00:46:58,525 --> 00:47:02,112
[Cramer] The trial was almost
a year to the date of the murders.

797
00:47:02,195 --> 00:47:04,447
It was a very unique court case.

798
00:47:04,531 --> 00:47:07,033
I had never seen
anything like that before.

799
00:47:07,826 --> 00:47:09,953
They were both on trial at the same time.

800
00:47:11,413 --> 00:47:15,667
They actually had two juries
and the two defendants in the courtroom.

801
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:18,545
The saving grace of doing it this way

802
00:47:18,628 --> 00:47:22,674
was to avoid the surviving victims
having to come back

803
00:47:22,757 --> 00:47:27,470
and relive this twice
in the two separate trials.

804
00:47:27,554 --> 00:47:29,139
It's traumatic enough once.

805
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:32,601
[Veader] I don't like to be
the center of attention.

806
00:47:32,684 --> 00:47:35,228
Here I am, in a box, telling my story.

807
00:47:35,312 --> 00:47:38,356
I think I focused on my friend Francesca
that was sitting there

808
00:47:39,274 --> 00:47:40,317
and went with me.

809
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,652
That kept me a little bit more grounded.

810
00:47:43,570 --> 00:47:45,697
[Nuzzi] The trial was a few weeks long.

811
00:47:45,780 --> 00:47:47,699
There were a lot of witnesses.

812
00:47:47,782 --> 00:47:50,577
[Cramer] I wanted to understand
what happened to Jen,

813
00:47:50,660 --> 00:47:53,914
what happened to her friends
who she loved so much.

814
00:47:53,997 --> 00:47:57,250
Seeing those crime scene photos
was way too much.

815
00:47:58,209 --> 00:47:59,461
The one perpetrator said,

816
00:47:59,544 --> 00:48:03,381
"Oh, when I was with Jennifer,
I was guarding her with a gun,

817
00:48:03,465 --> 00:48:06,509
and my hands were shaking,
and I was so afraid."

818
00:48:06,593 --> 00:48:09,846
"I just wanted to get out of there.
It accidentally went off."

819
00:48:11,431 --> 00:48:12,766
No, it did not.

820
00:48:13,308 --> 00:48:16,853
And the reason we know that
is because Jennifer's head wound,

821
00:48:16,937 --> 00:48:20,357
the bullet wound,
was a close-contact wound.

822
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,903
So don't tell me you were wiggling
and shaking, and it accidentally went off.

823
00:48:24,986 --> 00:48:29,783
No, you held it purposefully
with full intent, and you shot it.

824
00:48:32,327 --> 00:48:34,037
The evidence doesn't lie.

825
00:48:37,624 --> 00:48:38,667
People do.

826
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:40,418
A lot.

827
00:48:40,502 --> 00:48:42,420
[dramatic music playing]

828
00:48:46,758 --> 00:48:49,260
[McNeely] When we heard
the verdict for the Carnegie Deli,

829
00:48:49,344 --> 00:48:54,057
it was like, you know, a… a relief
and a sense of pride, obviously.

830
00:48:54,140 --> 00:48:57,227
I… I was so happy, because all the effort,

831
00:48:57,310 --> 00:49:00,730
and on behalf of the… the people
that had passed away,

832
00:49:00,814 --> 00:49:04,109
and… and, you know, Rosemond,
and Anthony that were still living,

833
00:49:04,192 --> 00:49:06,444
and their families, everybody's families.

834
00:49:06,528 --> 00:49:09,948
They finally…
Now they had something, a bit of closure.

835
00:49:10,865 --> 00:49:12,492
The sleep was much easier.

836
00:49:12,575 --> 00:49:16,621
To just say,
"You'll never see the light of day again."

837
00:49:17,122 --> 00:49:19,124
[somber, thoughtful music playing]

838
00:49:21,418 --> 00:49:24,629
Were people jumping up and down
and celebrating? No.

839
00:49:24,713 --> 00:49:26,923
It was sort of a very quiet moment

840
00:49:27,632 --> 00:49:29,300
where I think people just…

841
00:49:29,384 --> 00:49:30,802
Hugging and crying.

842
00:49:30,885 --> 00:49:33,096
-Just like, "Okay." I mean…
-Yeah.

843
00:49:33,179 --> 00:49:34,556
Justice has been served.

844
00:49:41,730 --> 00:49:45,442
[Cramer] The passing of Jen,
so many of us were affected,

845
00:49:45,525 --> 00:49:47,110
but we didn't know each other.

846
00:49:47,193 --> 00:49:50,071
And then we just eventually all connected.

847
00:49:50,572 --> 00:49:52,907
Every year after that tragedy,

848
00:49:52,991 --> 00:49:56,995
we celebrated Jen's life on her birthday.

849
00:49:57,579 --> 00:49:58,705
General Jen Day.

850
00:49:59,831 --> 00:50:01,541
[Cramer] She was such a good soul.

851
00:50:02,751 --> 00:50:04,127
She really was.

852
00:50:07,088 --> 00:50:09,299
[Parrino] Irma called me
and told me about the conviction.

853
00:50:09,382 --> 00:50:12,052
I was very pleased
to find out there was a conviction.

854
00:50:12,135 --> 00:50:14,220
But it's, you know…

855
00:50:14,304 --> 00:50:17,223
It's not like winning the World Series
or something like that.

856
00:50:17,307 --> 00:50:20,185
You're not elated because someone
had to die for this to happen.

857
00:50:20,268 --> 00:50:23,021
It's a very strange…
I don't know how to explain the feeling.

858
00:50:26,608 --> 00:50:29,986
[Rivera] When I first became a cop,
I started getting panic attacks.

859
00:50:30,070 --> 00:50:33,114
And the first time
that I ever experienced one,

860
00:50:33,198 --> 00:50:37,285
I had two dead bodies in one day.
I had never been really exposed to death.

861
00:50:37,368 --> 00:50:40,205
Eventually, I learned
how to shut my feelings on and off.

862
00:50:40,288 --> 00:50:43,333
I can actually visualize, like,
a switch in my head.

863
00:50:43,416 --> 00:50:45,710
Like a light switch.
And I can go, "Click."

864
00:50:45,794 --> 00:50:48,213
"On, off. On, off."
And I can shut it on and off.

865
00:50:49,923 --> 00:50:51,841
It's not that I don't care. It's that…

866
00:50:52,342 --> 00:50:54,969
You have no control
what's gonna happen, so…

867
00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:57,722
you learn to live a day at a time.

868
00:50:58,556 --> 00:51:00,642
That's how I live, a day at a time.

869
00:51:03,645 --> 00:51:06,356
[Butcher] These murders
were just senseless.

870
00:51:06,439 --> 00:51:08,650
It brought me back to that first case

871
00:51:08,733 --> 00:51:12,779
where I really understood
just how evil people could be.

872
00:51:13,446 --> 00:51:16,658
That was the Michael McMorrow case
in 1997.

873
00:51:17,826 --> 00:51:19,202
It was so brutal.

874
00:51:21,329 --> 00:51:22,831
So over the top.

875
00:51:23,414 --> 00:51:26,417
One of the most disturbing crime scenes
I ever saw,

876
00:51:27,210 --> 00:51:28,962
and I've seen thousands.

877
00:51:29,045 --> 00:51:31,673
[distorted audio warping]

878
00:51:31,756 --> 00:51:33,758
[train rumbling]

879
00:51:39,139 --> 00:51:41,141
[dramatic music building]

880
00:51:42,267 --> 00:51:43,893
[man] We respond to the location

881
00:51:43,977 --> 00:51:46,688
for a missing person
at 115 Central Park West.

882
00:51:47,814 --> 00:51:49,649
It's a very affluent building.

883
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,487
We see a young girl,
young boy in a bathtub,

884
00:51:54,571 --> 00:51:56,739
in water, washing each other off.

885
00:51:57,448 --> 00:52:00,702
As awkward as that scene must have been,

886
00:52:01,452 --> 00:52:03,454
he noticed that there was some blood.

887
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,666
[man] And she said,
"There's a body in the lake."

888
00:52:06,749 --> 00:52:09,377
Body in the lake.
Really? What's the chances of that?

889
00:52:10,253 --> 00:52:12,964
[reporter] The body
of 44-year-old Michael McMorrow

890
00:52:13,047 --> 00:52:15,967
was pulled from a lake
in New York's Central Park.

891
00:52:16,050 --> 00:52:20,180
The victim had been stabbed 30 times,
slit open, and disemboweled.

892
00:52:20,263 --> 00:52:24,142
Why would someone
want to destroy him like this?

893
00:52:24,225 --> 00:52:26,477
Why? Why? Why?

894
00:52:27,228 --> 00:52:29,230
[siren wailing]

895
00:52:31,274 --> 00:52:33,276
[intriguing outro music playing]