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It feels strange being here with my father
in the Judean Desert,
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which his own father crossed in 1917,
during the First World War,
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when he was the youngest
non-commissioned officer
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in the German army.
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30 years later, when he was
nearing his death, he wrote,
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"The life and death of the Jews
is truly a riddle
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I have not been able to solve."
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By then, he had killed more people
than any other man in all of history.
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Okay.
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I'm not a writer.
Writing has never been my strength.
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I've recorded everything as I remember it.
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My life has been colorful and varied.
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My fate has led me through
all the highs and lows of life.
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I have had two guiding stars
since I returned as a man
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from the war I entered as a schoolboy,
my fatherland and my family.
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I became the Commandant
of a new camp, Auschwitz.
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I, myself, hadn't expected to be promoted
to Commandant so soon,
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and it wasn't an easy task.
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Out of nothing, and without any resources,
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I was to build something enormous
as quickly as possible.
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Russian prisoners of war
were meant to build the camp.
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They arrived in a totally decrepit state.
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We were constantly giving
them additional rations,
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but without success.
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They were dying like flies.
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Cases of cannibalism were not uncommon.
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Of more than 10,000
Russian prisoners of war
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who were supposed to make up
the main workforce,
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by the summer of 1942,
only a few hundred were still alive.
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Himmler visited Auschwitz
and had a thorough look at everything.
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We drove through the entire
Zone of Interest.
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I was constantly drawing
his attention to the shortages.
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He, too, saw them.
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He shouted at me when
I could not stop talking about
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the atrocious conditions.
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"I don't want to hear anything
else about difficulties.
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"For an SS leader,
there are no difficulties.
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His task is to resolve them."
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The enormity, I mean,
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of what he do-- what he did,
what he conceived.
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For years, planning,
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making this concentration camp
the most efficient
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extermination machine ever--
that ever existed, right?
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I mean, that's his plan.
Auschwitz was his
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kinda his brainchild.
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Auschwitz became a Jew camp,
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a gathering camp for Jews
to an extent not known before.
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For the Jews of Auschwitz,
there was no more hope.
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They knew that, without exception,
they were condemned to death.
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Zyklon B was in constant use
for pest control in Auschwitz.
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We decided to use this gas
for the mass extermination.
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"I, myself, watched a killing,
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protected by a gas mask."
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"The door was closed,
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"and the gas was poured
in through the openings.
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"Some shouted, 'Gas,'
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and a mighty yelling..."
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...and pushing towards both doors ensued.
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But they withstood the pressure.
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They were only opened after a few hours
when the chamber was aired.
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How long this killing took,
I'm not sure of,
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but you could still hear a
humming noise for a long time.
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That is when I saw gas corpses
for the first time in a heap.
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I did not give any thought
to the killing itself.
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It had been ordered,
and I had to execute it.
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When I first read
my grandfather's memoirs,
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what struck me was, he was
like a clinical observer,
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00:13:43,531 --> 00:13:45,575
just looking at himself,
looking at what he was doing.
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It was a very clinical, like a scientist
that looks at a lifeless experiment,
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and that had showed me some
kind of a coldness of his soul.
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There wasn't much conversation
about Auschwitz in my family.
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I think my dad was always
pretty quiet about it.
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That's just silent generation, right?
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They don't really talk
about stuff that much,
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and he's not a big talker today either.
So, yeah, it's hard.
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I mean, it freaks me a
little bit when you think about,
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like, there's this, you know,
this joyful family life
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going on with, you know, actually
quite beautiful presence and
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joy, fun, having toys, and enjoying life.
And then, just a couple of hundred yards
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behind the walls, you know,
and barbed wired walls,
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there would be people being murdered.
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That is just mind-blowing
when you think about it.
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For me, it's pretty difficult to kind of
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imagine that they did not actually smell,
or hear, or see anything.
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I think my dad probably, subconsciously,
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suppresses some of
the experiences he's had.
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Put it in some very deep layers
of his conscience
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where he just really doesn't remember,
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like protecting himself, his mind.
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In Auschwitz, you were killed
in the most sophisticated manner.
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People got gassed in a gas chamber.
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The place is full of black smoke,
horrible smell.
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Hell.
Hell on Earth is Auschwitz.
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When I arrived in Auschwitz,
it transpired that there was a band there
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that needed a cellist.
They didn't have a cellist.
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So, my arrival seems to have been a,
you know, a great event.
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So I became the only cellist
in the camp orchestra,
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which was a very,
very lucky position to have.
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Absolutely saved my life.
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My mother survived
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the murder of her parents,
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witnessed the murder
of millions of others,
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being starved,
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every imaginable horror.
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We had the job of playing marches
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for the thousands of people
who were working in the factories
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that surrounded Auschwitz.
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Because the Germans like
everything nice and neat,
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so we had to play marches
so that the working people could,
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you know, walk out to the music.
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But, this was also conceived as
a sort of entertainment for the guards.
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Very boring places, you know, for us
all just to be guards in Auschwitz.
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Those were times long before television
or any entertainment.
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I found out after the war
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that there were orchestras in every camp.
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And the camp commander
of Birkenau where I was
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suddenly is all,
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"They all got music.
I want music as well."
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We played. Hopefully,
next day, we are still alive.
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That's how it was. Yeah.
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I was just looking, Mom,
at your cello case.
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It's such
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- a monument, isn't it?
- Yeah.
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A symbol to your life as a cellist.
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I know.
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The way in which my mother
found some kind of way
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to be in the world after the Holocaust
was by not speaking.
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She had settled into a kind of silence.
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I only had one thought in mind
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when I came here to catch up with lost--
my lost life, my lost youth.
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When I arrived in England,
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nobody asked any questions
about Auschwitz.
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So, we decided,
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"What's the point here?"
So, we didn't talk about it.
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It took nearly-- I think it was 50 years,
and then my children said to me,
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"Mom, you never actually
told us anything."
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As a child, I was very aware
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that there were no-go areas.
Anything German was bad.
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So, you kind of settle into
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a limbo of not knowing,
not knowing facts,
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but a sense of knowing that
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there is something really awful
in the hinterland.
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I know now, as a psychotherapist,
that those born to Holocaust survivors,
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as I am, can inherit a traumatization
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that it sort of sits inside the psyche
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and has no shape,
has no form, has no words
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because words-- it hasn't
been given a context.
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And I felt this from being a tiny child.
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But nobody in those days
understood the impact of the Holocaust
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on the second generation.
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And this was my room.
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It was the first room of my own,
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but it wasn't a happy place.
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When I look at the pictures of myself,
probably aged under 2,
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I'm overwhelmed with sadness.
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See, these are snaps
of a child in deep despair.
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A child, which who is not sweetly plump,
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but a misshapen child.
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My struggle through life
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is somehow symbolized
in these early pictures.
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My mother wasn't there.
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They are pictures of an inability
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to take care of me
in the way that I needed.
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And that, certainly for me,
was a consequence
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of my mother's experiences
in the Holocaust.
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I'm the wrong mother for my daughter.
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I'm very basic.
Traumatized? Forget it. Get on with life.
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If you have lived through
the unbelievable horror
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that I've lived through,
it's quite difficult to actually
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sympathize or empathize.
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Do you know that
I'm somebody who needs nothing?
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I could never understand
why you needed everything.
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Completely anathema to me.
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And it's still anathema to me.
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What I needed just wasn't available.
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I think what you needed
is to have your mother at home.
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- Right.
- That's what I thought. But for me--
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- Yeah.
- Your mother wasn't at home because we had
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- to put bread on the table, you know?
- Yeah.
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- But how can a child understand that?
- Yeah.
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- Yeah.
- Of course.
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00:25:24,691 --> 00:25:30,071
I think you think
that you and I are very different.
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00:25:32,741 --> 00:25:36,453
Do you think that there
are any similarities?
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I would have to look a long way.
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I would have to look a long way.
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- Really?
- Yeah.
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It's really interesting, isn't it?
That my whole life,
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00:25:49,299 --> 00:25:55,221
which chunks of it have been
about a feeling of not belonging,
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00:25:58,224 --> 00:26:01,728
in any sense, in British society or
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just not belonging,
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00:26:04,105 --> 00:26:07,525
and everything always
being a huge struggle--
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But, I was lucky because I had a very
fulfilled life in England, which...
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which you didn't manage.
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00:26:16,785 --> 00:26:18,286
For you,
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00:26:18,286 --> 00:26:21,664
- this has been a place of refuge.
- Yeah.
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00:26:23,541 --> 00:26:28,254
Well, one must realize also, looking back,
what was the situation like in Germany.
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00:26:28,254 --> 00:26:32,926
A lot of unemployment,
and then this lovely Mr. Hitler appears.
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00:26:32,926 --> 00:26:35,887
Suddenly, we are somebody again.
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00:26:36,805 --> 00:26:38,223
So, yeah.
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00:26:38,598 --> 00:26:40,975
National Socialism became a big success.
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00:26:53,071 --> 00:26:56,324
I considered the National
Socialist worldview to be
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the only appropriate one
for the German people.
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00:27:05,041 --> 00:27:07,585
Antisemitism is nothing new.
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00:27:11,006 --> 00:27:13,508
It has always existed all over the world.
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It becomes more apparent
when the Jews push themselves forward
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00:27:18,221 --> 00:27:20,098
too much in their quest for power.
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00:27:22,976 --> 00:27:27,063
I'd like to stress that, personally,
I've never hated Jews,
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00:27:27,063 --> 00:27:29,899
but I considered them
the enemy of our people.
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00:29:26,391 --> 00:29:30,228
Once, two little children
were so absorbed into their game
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that they absolutely did not
want to allow their mother
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00:29:33,023 --> 00:29:34,107
to pull them away from it.
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00:29:38,903 --> 00:29:43,116
Even the Jews of the Sonderkommando
did not want to take the children.
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00:29:48,496 --> 00:29:50,457
I will never forget
the mother's expression
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00:29:50,457 --> 00:29:54,878
in her eyes, begging for mercy,
as she surely knew what was happening.
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00:29:57,714 --> 00:30:00,884
Those in the gas chamber
were already getting restless.
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00:30:02,260 --> 00:30:03,762
I had to act.
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00:30:04,346 --> 00:30:06,264
Everyone was looking at me.
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00:30:07,724 --> 00:30:11,311
I gave the non-commissioned officer a nod,
and he took the children,
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00:30:11,311 --> 00:30:13,855
who were putting up
a fierce struggle in his arms,
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00:30:13,855 --> 00:30:15,940
and put them into the gas
chamber with the mother,
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00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:18,526
whose screams were heartbreaking.
224
00:30:23,740 --> 00:30:25,992
I also saw a woman
who tried to push her children
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00:30:25,992 --> 00:30:29,454
out of the gas chamber
as the door was being closed.
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00:30:30,038 --> 00:30:34,501
Weeping, she cried out,
"At least let my precious children live."
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00:30:37,003 --> 00:30:40,465
Seeing women walk into
the gas chambers with children,
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00:30:40,465 --> 00:30:43,051
I often thought of my own family.
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00:32:06,134 --> 00:32:11,931
I come from a completely assimilated
German-Jewish family.
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00:32:12,265 --> 00:32:16,019
My father was a soldier
in the First World War
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00:32:16,019 --> 00:32:20,815
with the Iron Cross and all the--
Yeah, we were Germans.
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00:32:22,025 --> 00:32:25,528
And Jewish, but we did not
practice the Jewish faith.
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00:32:28,615 --> 00:32:30,909
My father, unfortunately,
was a complete optimist.
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00:32:30,909 --> 00:32:33,661
He said, "The Germans
can't be that stupid."
235
00:32:33,661 --> 00:32:35,413
And then, he realized
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00:32:36,081 --> 00:32:38,583
the Germans are that stupid.
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00:32:40,001 --> 00:32:45,548
In the 1930s, all Jews in Germany
were stripped of their nationality.
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00:32:46,591 --> 00:32:48,968
My mother, and father, for that matter,
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00:32:48,968 --> 00:32:53,431
were never interested in
reclaiming German citizenship
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00:32:53,431 --> 00:32:55,433
although they would've been entitled to.
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00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,733
Germany was finished for me.
I don't belong there.
242
00:33:03,733 --> 00:33:07,237
I couldn't wait to become
naturalized British.
243
00:33:08,029 --> 00:33:11,533
Life without a passport
is very complicated.
244
00:33:17,706 --> 00:33:22,293
But I decided that it was time
to get my citizenship.
245
00:33:23,670 --> 00:33:27,549
When my German passport
was delivered to my house,
246
00:33:27,549 --> 00:33:31,428
I remember just feeling
a huge sense of elation.
247
00:33:31,428 --> 00:33:33,930
I felt triumphant.
248
00:33:48,445 --> 00:33:49,612
Do you want this?
249
00:33:53,199 --> 00:33:56,536
Will your home move
be within the next 28 days?
250
00:33:56,536 --> 00:33:57,829
Yes.
251
00:34:01,416 --> 00:34:05,253
Will your home move be
within the next 28 days?
252
00:34:06,379 --> 00:34:07,797
Yes!
253
00:34:07,797 --> 00:34:11,343
So now, I'm embarking on a new life.
254
00:34:11,343 --> 00:34:14,346
I've decided to try and live in Germany,
255
00:34:14,346 --> 00:34:20,393
a country that I've never lived in
and don't even speak the language.
256
00:34:20,393 --> 00:34:26,566
But my bones belong there.
I should never have been born here.
257
00:34:26,566 --> 00:34:29,277
I should have been born in Germany.
258
00:34:29,277 --> 00:34:30,362
Hi, Mom.
259
00:34:31,279 --> 00:34:35,283
It's gonna take me a bit of time to load.
Can you just move forward a bit?
260
00:34:37,869 --> 00:34:39,454
No, stop!
261
00:34:42,332 --> 00:34:44,167
Would you like these lights?
262
00:34:44,167 --> 00:34:46,252
- Well, just bring it or whatever.
- Okay.
263
00:34:47,128 --> 00:34:49,381
I'm doing my best, Mom.
264
00:35:18,910 --> 00:35:22,372
Immigrating to Germany was met
265
00:35:22,372 --> 00:35:28,086
with some incredulous responses
'cause, after all, this was the country
266
00:35:28,086 --> 00:35:30,964
that my grandparents had been murdered in,
267
00:35:30,964 --> 00:35:34,592
as so many Jews were,
and it was the country
268
00:35:34,592 --> 00:35:37,679
that my parents had fled from.
269
00:35:38,388 --> 00:35:41,266
Indeed, my mother didn't
set foot back in Germany
270
00:35:41,266 --> 00:35:42,851
for many, many years.
271
00:35:45,687 --> 00:35:47,605
- Mom.
- Well, well, well.
272
00:35:47,605 --> 00:35:49,274
So this is where you're living?
273
00:35:49,274 --> 00:35:51,192
This is it.
274
00:35:51,776 --> 00:35:55,155
Well, well, well. Oh, my goodness.
275
00:36:01,619 --> 00:36:03,747
Oh, this looks beautiful.
276
00:36:03,747 --> 00:36:04,664
Do you wanna sit down
277
00:36:04,664 --> 00:36:05,999
- and have a cigarette?
- Yeah.
278
00:36:06,791 --> 00:36:08,251
Oh, yes, a whole gallery there.
279
00:36:08,251 --> 00:36:09,794
Yeah.
280
00:36:09,794 --> 00:36:13,381
Very, very impressive.
281
00:36:14,090 --> 00:36:17,302
Now, you gotta take
all these schnukies away,
282
00:36:17,302 --> 00:36:19,679
so they can see the books.
283
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:22,265
Is it an exhibition place or a bookshelf?
284
00:36:23,224 --> 00:36:26,144
No, I like my schnukies.
285
00:36:26,144 --> 00:36:30,065
I guess, in some way,
making this home here
286
00:36:30,732 --> 00:36:33,610
has something to do with an idea of trying
287
00:36:33,610 --> 00:36:40,325
to reclaim stolen lives,
and also my unlived life.
288
00:36:40,909 --> 00:36:43,578
Yeah. It also shows
what could have been
289
00:36:43,578 --> 00:36:47,791
and was destroyed for no reason
other than stupidity.
290
00:36:47,791 --> 00:36:49,876
Yeah. Yeah.
291
00:36:51,586 --> 00:36:52,837
Yeah.
292
00:36:53,588 --> 00:36:58,009
But, alas, the stupidity
seems to be perpetuating.
293
00:36:58,635 --> 00:37:01,388
You know, obviously,
people need scapegoats,
294
00:37:01,388 --> 00:37:03,765
and seeing the world is
in such a mess at the moment,
295
00:37:03,765 --> 00:37:08,603
it is typical, it was the fault
of the Jews again.
296
00:37:08,603 --> 00:37:14,984
I kept experiencing being here,
this terrible cultural dissonance,
297
00:37:14,984 --> 00:37:20,407
and I was confronted with
unconscious antisemitism.
298
00:37:20,407 --> 00:37:23,159
- You sure you don't imagine that?
- No, I don't imagine it.
299
00:37:23,159 --> 00:37:26,037
And it's hard sometimes not just want
300
00:37:26,037 --> 00:37:27,956
to turn round and run away.
301
00:37:27,956 --> 00:37:30,041
- But where to?
- Exactly.
302
00:37:30,041 --> 00:37:33,294
- That's the Jewish fate.
- That's the Jewish fate.
303
00:37:33,294 --> 00:37:35,005
- You don't belong anywhere.
- Yeah.
304
00:37:35,005 --> 00:37:39,467
And where you do, where you should belong,
you got the biggest problem.
305
00:37:46,099 --> 00:37:48,059
The process of selection on the ramp
306
00:37:48,059 --> 00:37:49,602
was full of incidents.
307
00:37:50,603 --> 00:37:52,355
When families were ripped apart,
308
00:37:52,355 --> 00:37:55,191
the men separated from
the women and children,
309
00:37:55,191 --> 00:37:59,195
great agitation and turmoil
rippled through the transport.
310
00:37:59,195 --> 00:38:02,574
And the separation of those fit
for work added to this
311
00:38:03,700 --> 00:38:06,661
because the families wanted
to stay together by all means.
312
00:38:11,291 --> 00:38:14,711
The Jews have a strongly
developed sense of family.
313
00:38:14,711 --> 00:38:17,589
They cling to each other like limpets.
314
00:38:19,507 --> 00:38:22,552
This gave every one commanded
to do this monstrous work
315
00:38:22,552 --> 00:38:24,971
a lot to think about.
316
00:38:24,971 --> 00:38:27,057
It left lasting impressions.
317
00:38:29,267 --> 00:38:33,855
Most of those involved often came up to me
during my inspection round.
318
00:38:33,855 --> 00:38:36,608
I heard the same question again and again.
319
00:38:38,651 --> 00:38:40,779
Is it necessary that hundreds of thousands
320
00:38:40,779 --> 00:38:43,573
of women and children
have to be exterminated?
321
00:38:46,076 --> 00:38:50,872
And I would ask myself the same question
countless times deep inside,
322
00:38:51,414 --> 00:38:54,292
had to have fob them off
with the Fuhrer Order,
323
00:38:54,292 --> 00:38:56,086
console them with that.
324
00:38:57,212 --> 00:39:00,215
I had to tell them that
the extermination of the Jews
325
00:39:00,215 --> 00:39:03,510
was necessary to free Germany
and our descendants
326
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:06,388
of our adversaries once and for all.
327
00:39:15,063 --> 00:39:18,441
My grandfather, obviously
he somehow swallowed,
328
00:39:18,441 --> 00:39:20,485
you know, Nazi ideology,
329
00:39:20,485 --> 00:39:24,280
I mean, socio-Darwinism in a sense,
he swallowed that hook, line, and sinker.
330
00:39:24,948 --> 00:39:28,451
It made sense to him
at the time, the master race.
331
00:39:29,661 --> 00:39:34,582
Auschwitz was given to him
and the way he was wired,
332
00:39:34,582 --> 00:39:36,543
as a human being in his character,
333
00:39:36,543 --> 00:39:38,962
was to do an excellent job.
334
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,310
Father, we just thank You
so much, Lord, for Your word.
335
00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:58,231
Thank You for Your love for us, Lord.
Your patience with us, Lord.
336
00:39:58,231 --> 00:40:00,150
You care for us like
we're Your children, God,
337
00:40:00,150 --> 00:40:02,527
and just thank You
for blessing us this way.
338
00:40:02,527 --> 00:40:04,946
I pray all this in Jesus' name. Amen.
339
00:40:05,530 --> 00:40:07,115
Alright, tuck in, guys. Let's get it.
340
00:40:07,115 --> 00:40:09,034
- I would say ladies' first.
- Dig in. Dig in.
341
00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:13,580
I'm a pastor for
Bible Church for Stuttgart
342
00:40:13,580 --> 00:40:15,665
and we serve an international community,
343
00:40:15,665 --> 00:40:18,710
including personnel
from American military bases
344
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:20,420
and other expats.
345
00:40:20,420 --> 00:40:23,548
We're our having monthly
men's prayer breakfast.
346
00:40:23,548 --> 00:40:26,509
Just the men of the church
having a wholesome,
347
00:40:26,509 --> 00:40:28,553
Godly good time together, that's all.
348
00:40:28,553 --> 00:40:30,805
You guys, you have
enough space there, everybody?
349
00:40:30,805 --> 00:40:32,974
On this study, I was just thinking about,
350
00:40:32,974 --> 00:40:36,686
you know, men here today, men,
Christian men, any man.
351
00:40:37,354 --> 00:40:40,440
Men in general in the,
in the 21st century, right?
352
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,733
What is our mission?
353
00:40:41,733 --> 00:40:45,028
The Bible calls on us men to be leaders.
354
00:40:45,028 --> 00:40:47,864
With leadership
comes great responsibility,
355
00:40:47,864 --> 00:40:51,785
not just in what we teach at home,
but also how we act and walk with God
356
00:40:51,785 --> 00:40:54,079
in each and every day, so...
357
00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:57,040
When I became a Christian
and I read the Old Testament,
358
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,876
it's talking about
the sins of the fathers,
359
00:40:59,876 --> 00:41:03,630
like how we revisit those, you know,
to the third or fourth generation,
360
00:41:03,630 --> 00:41:05,465
and I thought, "Whoa."
361
00:41:06,007 --> 00:41:08,677
My grandfather, he was a go-getter,
362
00:41:08,677 --> 00:41:11,763
an ambitious man, a meticulous man,
363
00:41:12,347 --> 00:41:16,142
but to the point where he, you know,
he turned into this monster,
364
00:41:16,142 --> 00:41:22,232
this ruthless killer and, yeah,
he was not watchful.
365
00:41:22,232 --> 00:41:24,275
And I don't think we can
become mass murderers,
366
00:41:24,275 --> 00:41:30,031
but I think every human being, all of us,
have the propensity to go into a direction
367
00:41:30,031 --> 00:41:31,074
that is totally wrong.
368
00:41:31,533 --> 00:41:33,827
Thank you so much. So let's pray.
369
00:41:34,744 --> 00:41:37,872
Thinking about it,
my grandfather's legacy,
370
00:41:37,872 --> 00:41:40,834
there is blood on
the hands of the Höss family.
371
00:41:40,834 --> 00:41:42,419
People are still suffering now.
372
00:41:42,419 --> 00:41:46,047
I mean, even in my family,
you know, almost 80 years later.
373
00:43:28,191 --> 00:43:29,359
Oh, and you have--
374
00:43:34,989 --> 00:43:37,992
Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
Look at The Frog King.
375
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,333
Oh, God...
376
00:43:53,383 --> 00:43:59,597
Oh, my God. Come on in.
I have to go on-- I'm a little
377
00:44:00,598 --> 00:44:04,019
uneasy without the stick, you know?
378
00:44:04,686 --> 00:44:05,687
Yeah.
379
00:44:09,024 --> 00:44:10,275
Oh, boy.
380
00:44:20,493 --> 00:44:22,454
Oh, my God.
381
00:44:49,189 --> 00:44:51,024
I'm happy now you're here.
382
00:45:19,511 --> 00:45:22,222
My family had a lovely time in Auschwitz.
383
00:45:23,723 --> 00:45:26,226
My wife had her flower paradise.
384
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,148
The children could lead
a carefree and pleasant life.
385
00:45:34,067 --> 00:45:37,070
In summer, they splashed
in the paddling pool in the garden
386
00:45:38,154 --> 00:45:41,157
but their greatest joy was
when Daddy bathed with them.
387
00:45:42,033 --> 00:45:44,869
It often happened at home that
my thoughts suddenly turned
388
00:45:44,869 --> 00:45:47,664
to some of the extermination processes.
389
00:45:50,375 --> 00:45:53,795
Often when I saw
our children happily playing,
390
00:45:53,795 --> 00:45:57,590
my wife being overjoyed with
the youngest one, I thought,
391
00:45:58,299 --> 00:46:01,302
"How much longer will our happiness last?"
392
00:46:28,663 --> 00:46:31,875
We had a beautiful mother and father.
393
00:46:31,875 --> 00:46:33,501
- Yeah.
- Beautiful.
394
00:46:35,712 --> 00:46:38,506
Many people don't have that good
395
00:46:38,506 --> 00:46:39,966
- of a life.
- Yeah.
396
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:46,556
When he talks in his book,
he was outside gas chambers
397
00:46:46,556 --> 00:46:48,808
when women and children were herded in,
398
00:46:48,808 --> 00:46:51,227
how does that feel
when you think about it?
399
00:46:51,227 --> 00:46:55,231
I was very sad, and I have
nightmares sometimes
400
00:46:55,231 --> 00:47:01,237
because he was the only one who said
what was done there.
401
00:47:02,072 --> 00:47:04,115
He was a good person.
402
00:47:04,115 --> 00:47:07,786
You mean he was honest
about his role in mass extermination?
403
00:47:07,786 --> 00:47:11,456
Yes, but he got into it,
and he couldn't get out of it.
404
00:47:11,456 --> 00:47:14,501
And, what about your mother Hedwig?
405
00:47:48,618 --> 00:47:49,786
Yeah.
406
00:48:24,863 --> 00:48:25,864
Yeah.
407
00:48:27,657 --> 00:48:28,658
Yeah.
408
00:50:09,092 --> 00:50:11,553
Don't want to talk about it anymore.
409
00:50:11,553 --> 00:50:12,929
Do you find it, you know,
410
00:50:12,929 --> 00:50:15,265
- do you find that--
- Depressing.
411
00:50:15,265 --> 00:50:17,350
- It's depressing?
- Yes, yes.
412
00:50:22,522 --> 00:50:24,858
Sometimes, I even thought,
413
00:50:24,858 --> 00:50:28,445
"Why do I have to...
414
00:50:28,987 --> 00:50:33,366
suffer, like, physically, so bad?"
415
00:50:34,909 --> 00:50:40,832
And I even sort of said,
"Is this God will be angry with me
416
00:50:40,832 --> 00:50:43,626
because my dad did things?"
417
00:50:44,627 --> 00:50:48,298
But, I said, "I will never
be angry with my dad."
418
00:50:56,181 --> 00:50:59,517
He must've been a very strong person
419
00:50:59,517 --> 00:51:02,604
to live like this
and do what he had to do.
420
00:51:04,564 --> 00:51:06,066
So...
421
00:51:10,904 --> 00:51:15,200
What he had to do was to basically kill
more than a million people--
422
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,660
I don't think that way.
423
00:51:17,994 --> 00:51:21,873
And look at all the people
that say they died in the camp,
424
00:51:21,873 --> 00:51:26,753
but all the survivors,
why didn't they die?
425
00:51:26,753 --> 00:51:30,173
They're still living,
and they get money now
426
00:51:30,173 --> 00:51:35,595
from Germany or from the Jewish people.
427
00:51:35,595 --> 00:51:37,138
And, you know...
428
00:51:37,597 --> 00:51:42,811
So, just whatever you want
to believe, you do.
429
00:51:43,687 --> 00:51:45,855
Do you think you're in the denial?
430
00:51:45,855 --> 00:51:47,941
No. Why?
431
00:51:49,025 --> 00:51:51,361
I mean, it was the way it was.
432
00:51:54,656 --> 00:51:56,658
It was the Third Reich.
433
00:51:59,327 --> 00:52:01,329
It's a long time ago.
434
00:52:08,962 --> 00:52:14,050
All that's history, I think.
What can I do? What can I say?
435
00:52:15,969 --> 00:52:20,974
Happy birthday to you
436
00:52:21,307 --> 00:52:25,478
Happy birthday to you
437
00:52:25,478 --> 00:52:30,150
Happy birthday dear, Mom
438
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:34,070
Happy birthday to you
439
00:52:41,578 --> 00:52:44,372
Nothing wrong with
your breath or oxygen supply.
440
00:52:44,372 --> 00:52:45,415
Well done.
441
00:52:45,415 --> 00:52:47,917
I'm nearly 100 years old.
442
00:52:47,917 --> 00:52:50,587
I don't know why
I should get so old, really.
443
00:52:50,587 --> 00:52:53,214
There must be a reason somehow. I mean,
444
00:52:53,214 --> 00:52:59,637
some of us, thank God,
who lived in those days are still alive.
445
00:53:01,264 --> 00:53:04,642
But, when we've gone, finished.
446
00:53:04,642 --> 00:53:11,316
Mom always says she hates birthdays,
she hates fuss, leave her alone,
447
00:53:11,316 --> 00:53:13,651
so on and so forth.
448
00:53:13,651 --> 00:53:19,032
But, today, she celebrated her--
she's celebrating her 98th birthday
449
00:53:19,032 --> 00:53:22,243
and is surrounded by very dear people.
450
00:53:22,243 --> 00:53:26,247
It's quite incredible, Anita,
to think that your parents
451
00:53:26,247 --> 00:53:29,542
were such close friends
of my grandparents.
452
00:53:29,542 --> 00:53:31,544
Yeah, we were tremendous friends.
453
00:53:31,544 --> 00:53:36,675
My story's the typical Jewish story
because Judy's grandfather and my father,
454
00:53:36,675 --> 00:53:39,552
we lived very happily in Germany.
455
00:53:39,552 --> 00:53:41,471
And when the trouble started,
456
00:53:41,471 --> 00:53:45,058
Judy's family had
the intelligence to leave.
457
00:53:45,767 --> 00:53:47,852
And they encouraged my father
to leave as well.
458
00:53:47,852 --> 00:53:51,648
My father went to Palestine,
and he came back and said,
459
00:53:51,648 --> 00:53:54,234
"I don't want to live in the desert."
460
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,865
But Judy's family survived,
and my father did not.
461
00:54:21,928 --> 00:54:25,557
And this is the place
where my family were from.
462
00:54:30,645 --> 00:54:33,815
Now it's called Wroclaw, and it's Poland.
463
00:54:34,399 --> 00:54:38,695
Although it's not Breslau anymore,
it will always be to me.
464
00:54:40,196 --> 00:54:45,869
I want to, I have to, I must
connect the parts of our family history
465
00:54:45,869 --> 00:54:50,331
into one narrative that lives on.
466
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:54,753
And so, I have to be here
467
00:54:55,587 --> 00:54:58,590
because it's all part of one story.
468
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:18,693
The recollection of my youth
is a very happy one.
469
00:55:20,653 --> 00:55:24,282
I had two sisters, Marianne and Renate.
470
00:55:26,117 --> 00:55:28,495
My father was a lawyer,
471
00:55:28,495 --> 00:55:31,956
and my mother was a very,
very accomplished violinist.
472
00:55:34,334 --> 00:55:37,837
I mean, culture was written in
very big letters in our house.
473
00:55:44,260 --> 00:55:48,431
We have a large collection
of Wroclaw photographs,
474
00:55:48,431 --> 00:55:53,395
and the home that my mother lived in,
which was a residential,
475
00:55:53,395 --> 00:55:57,023
beautiful outbound apartment house
476
00:55:57,023 --> 00:55:58,983
with a wonderful terrace.
477
00:55:59,359 --> 00:56:03,029
I knew that didn't stand anymore,
478
00:56:03,029 --> 00:56:06,574
but I hadn't imagined what's in its place.
479
00:56:13,540 --> 00:56:16,751
We were, yeah,
just a normal family really.
480
00:56:16,751 --> 00:56:19,838
We became abnormal
with the advent of Hitler.
481
00:56:29,556 --> 00:56:30,974
The front just closed, and
482
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,145
it was all too late for
a whole family to get away.
483
00:56:37,689 --> 00:56:39,733
And then, the war broke out,
484
00:56:39,733 --> 00:56:42,485
and then that was obviously
the end of everything.
485
00:56:45,989 --> 00:56:47,699
And in 1942,
486
00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:50,702
the deportation started.
487
00:56:57,709 --> 00:57:01,421
And my parents were deported to the east.
488
00:57:21,900 --> 00:57:24,861
My grandparents were given
489
00:57:24,861 --> 00:57:28,907
24 hours' warning by the Gestapo
490
00:57:29,699 --> 00:57:32,535
but they had to report the following day
491
00:57:32,535 --> 00:57:35,997
to where the rounding up
of the Jews was happening.
492
00:57:39,292 --> 00:57:42,962
So my mother spent that
last night packing, packing
493
00:57:42,962 --> 00:57:47,550
and my grandmother
was in another room, crying.
494
00:57:49,511 --> 00:57:53,056
And I know that my grandfather's hair
turned gray that night.
495
00:57:55,975 --> 00:58:02,315
My mother wanted to go with her parents,
but my grandfather said,
496
00:58:02,315 --> 00:58:07,487
"No. Where we're going,
you will get there soon enough."
497
00:58:20,875 --> 00:58:24,295
My grandparents were deported
498
00:58:24,295 --> 00:58:28,008
to a place called Izbica.
499
00:58:35,515 --> 00:58:38,768
We need to leave something symbolic
500
00:58:38,768 --> 00:58:42,772
to let you know that your
daughter, my mom's cello,
501
00:58:42,772 --> 00:58:45,608
literally saved her life.
502
00:58:53,241 --> 00:58:58,830
Miraculously,
my grandfather was able to smuggle out
503
00:58:58,830 --> 00:59:02,500
two notes to my mother and her sister.
504
00:59:03,793 --> 00:59:06,963
The last one being the psalm,
505
00:59:06,963 --> 00:59:10,967
"I lift up mine eyes
from whence cometh my help.
506
00:59:10,967 --> 00:59:13,595
A help coming from the Lord."
507
00:59:13,595 --> 00:59:18,808
"Send food. Mutti can't write.
She isn't well."
508
00:59:18,808 --> 00:59:22,604
Which I always understood
that she was dead already.
509
00:59:24,647 --> 00:59:28,318
I've been driven by the need
to create some sort of
510
00:59:28,318 --> 00:59:31,613
in perpetuity for my grandparents.
511
00:59:31,613 --> 00:59:34,699
This happened, these people existed,
512
00:59:34,699 --> 00:59:38,953
and these people happen
to be my grandparents,
513
00:59:38,953 --> 00:59:42,123
and the millions of others
who have no graves.
514
00:59:48,797 --> 00:59:51,007
I think I want to call my mom.
515
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:52,634
Hello, Mom.
516
00:59:52,634 --> 00:59:54,719
Hi. Where are you?
517
00:59:54,719 --> 00:59:56,304
Can you see?
518
00:59:57,555 --> 00:59:58,765
Can you see?
519
00:59:58,765 --> 01:00:00,016
What is it?
520
01:00:00,016 --> 01:00:01,851
- Your parents.
- What?
521
01:00:02,811 --> 01:00:06,773
Pictures of your parents
and the candles I've lit.
522
01:00:08,525 --> 01:00:11,653
Yeah, I can't really
recognize it. Very nice.
523
01:00:11,653 --> 01:00:14,406
But, I'd like to--
524
01:00:14,406 --> 01:00:16,574
Oh, yeah, yeah. I can see now.
525
01:00:16,574 --> 01:00:20,328
I was smoking in front
of my grandparents,
526
01:00:20,328 --> 01:00:22,747
and I felt guilty.
527
01:00:26,876 --> 01:00:29,921
So, where are you exactly now?
528
01:00:29,921 --> 01:00:32,007
Standing in the middle of Izbica.
529
01:00:32,007 --> 01:00:33,883
What village, is it?
530
01:00:33,883 --> 01:00:38,221
No. I'm in like a big wood.
531
01:00:43,893 --> 01:00:46,312
- What is that?
- Another memorial.
532
01:00:46,312 --> 01:00:48,189
What does it say?
533
01:00:48,189 --> 01:00:52,027
I can't read Hebrew or Polish,
534
01:00:52,652 --> 01:00:55,530
but I did what I wanted to do.
535
01:00:56,823 --> 01:00:59,159
- Good choice.
- Bye-bye.
536
01:00:59,159 --> 01:01:00,994
Bye-bye.
537
01:01:49,042 --> 01:01:50,043
Ja.
538
01:03:31,811 --> 01:03:32,687
Nein.
539
01:04:21,945 --> 01:04:25,240
I have memories of my grandma, Hedwig.
540
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,159
She would sometimes visit
when we were small.
541
01:04:28,159 --> 01:04:30,203
She was like the lady of the manor,
542
01:04:30,203 --> 01:04:33,039
where my mom always felt, like,
intimidated by her.
543
01:04:33,039 --> 01:04:35,166
She'd wear this white apron,
her hair in a bun.
544
01:04:38,420 --> 01:04:40,964
And she was kind of rigid,
too, in her views.
545
01:04:40,964 --> 01:04:42,799
Now, I never talked to her
about the Holocaust
546
01:04:42,799 --> 01:04:44,968
as a child, you know?
547
01:04:44,968 --> 01:04:47,846
What my mom told me that there was,
548
01:04:47,846 --> 01:04:51,599
you know, a sort of reluctance
to actually own up,
549
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:54,227
to call it for what it was,
you know, a mass murder.
550
01:04:54,227 --> 01:04:59,566
Holocaust. Shoah. Millions of people
killed by, you know, by her husband.
551
01:05:02,652 --> 01:05:04,738
My grandmother, Hedwig Höss,
552
01:05:04,738 --> 01:05:08,324
she got a one-way ticket
to visit Aunt Püppi,
553
01:05:08,324 --> 01:05:11,828
but the rumor has it that
she took this cyanide pill
554
01:05:11,828 --> 01:05:14,164
that she had actually showed
to members of the family
555
01:05:14,164 --> 01:05:17,792
years earlier, that she still
was in possession of this,
556
01:05:17,792 --> 01:05:19,753
you know, suicide device
from the Second World War
557
01:05:19,753 --> 01:05:23,381
that they were all handed
or all issued to commit suicide
558
01:05:23,381 --> 01:05:25,800
if they were captured
by the enemy or something.
559
01:05:27,469 --> 01:05:31,389
What do you think of the rumors
that she committed suicide
560
01:05:31,389 --> 01:05:35,060
- by biting into a cyanide pill?
- Who?
561
01:05:35,060 --> 01:05:37,479
- Your mother.
- No way!
562
01:05:37,479 --> 01:05:39,064
No way.
563
01:05:39,814 --> 01:05:41,066
Who said that?
564
01:05:42,567 --> 01:05:44,152
It's not true.
565
01:05:47,113 --> 01:05:50,325
I just would love to die the way she died,
566
01:05:50,325 --> 01:05:54,079
just go to sleep and wake--
not wake up.
567
01:05:57,999 --> 01:06:00,794
She had these ideas that
it just all went wrong,
568
01:06:00,794 --> 01:06:04,589
that it could've been so good,
you know, if given the chance.
569
01:06:04,589 --> 01:06:08,134
As she said, "We rose with that star,
and we fell with that star."
570
01:06:14,933 --> 01:06:17,352
The Fuhrer was dead.
571
01:06:19,813 --> 01:06:23,191
My wife and I had the same
thought at the same time.
572
01:06:23,900 --> 01:06:26,277
Now, we, too, must go.
573
01:06:28,113 --> 01:06:30,156
Our world had gone down with the Fuhrer.
574
01:06:32,909 --> 01:06:35,245
Did it make any sense
for us to go on living?
575
01:06:37,497 --> 01:06:40,792
We would be hunted.
They would search for us everywhere.
576
01:06:53,304 --> 01:06:55,098
We wanted to take poison.
577
01:06:56,391 --> 01:06:59,394
We did not do it
for the sake of our children.
578
01:07:00,645 --> 01:07:03,398
Later on, I regretted it again and again.
579
01:07:05,316 --> 01:07:07,861
We were bound and chained to that world.
580
01:07:08,528 --> 01:07:10,530
We should have gone down with it.
581
01:07:14,034 --> 01:07:18,038
I knew that the English Field
Security Police were looking for me,
582
01:07:18,038 --> 01:07:21,249
and also that my family
was strictly monitored,
583
01:07:21,249 --> 01:07:23,668
and that there were constant
searches of their quarters.
584
01:08:21,351 --> 01:08:24,688
On the 11th of March, I was arrested.
585
01:08:24,688 --> 01:08:28,191
My poison ampule had
broken two days before.
586
01:08:28,858 --> 01:08:32,195
I was treated very badly
by the field security police.
587
01:08:33,446 --> 01:08:37,659
I was paraded around
like a particularly interesting animal.
588
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:41,162
The interrogations were not very pleasant.
589
01:08:42,664 --> 01:08:47,502
I cannot resent the interrogators.
They were all Jews.
590
01:08:57,721 --> 01:08:59,973
I'm gonna see Mom now,
and I'm gonna show her
591
01:08:59,973 --> 01:09:05,854
some absolutely remarkable papers
that I just received 48 hours ago,
592
01:09:05,854 --> 01:09:09,941
and I think she'll be
kind of pretty stunned by.
593
01:09:17,032 --> 01:09:22,245
"I, Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Höss,
594
01:09:22,245 --> 01:09:27,125
"alias Franz Lang,
having been duly warned,
595
01:09:27,125 --> 01:09:31,713
hereby declare that the
following statements are true."
596
01:09:32,172 --> 01:09:38,386
They are, apparently,
the first interrogation documents
597
01:09:38,386 --> 01:09:44,976
when Rudolf Höss was arrested
when he was found on the run.
598
01:09:44,976 --> 01:09:47,395
God. Who sent that to you?
599
01:09:47,395 --> 01:09:49,647
Somebody who wrote to me saying,
600
01:09:49,647 --> 01:09:54,361
"My uncle, who died recently,
they were found in his attic,
601
01:09:54,361 --> 01:09:56,363
"and I don't know what to do with them.
602
01:09:56,363 --> 01:09:58,740
Can I send them to you?"
603
01:09:58,740 --> 01:10:01,201
What a find. What a find.
604
01:10:01,201 --> 01:10:04,913
He says here,
"I was ordered to report to Berlin
605
01:10:04,913 --> 01:10:07,290
"in June 1941 to Himmler,
606
01:10:07,957 --> 01:10:12,629
"where he told me
approximately the following.
607
01:10:12,629 --> 01:10:16,174
"He wanted me to produce,
within four weeks,
608
01:10:16,174 --> 01:10:20,470
"construction plans in accordance
with these directions.
609
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:27,018
"He added that the task was so difficult
that he could only trust me with it.
610
01:10:28,478 --> 01:10:32,273
"Prisoners had to be gassed,
then the doors were...
611
01:10:32,273 --> 01:10:36,653
"screwed tight, and two
canisters of Cyclone B
612
01:10:36,653 --> 01:10:39,364
"were thrown in through small holes.
613
01:10:39,364 --> 01:10:42,659
"People would die within three
and ten minutes.
614
01:10:42,659 --> 01:10:48,164
"After half an hour, the doors were opened
and the bodies extracted
615
01:10:48,164 --> 01:10:51,251
"by a special squad of prisoners
616
01:10:51,251 --> 01:10:54,254
who were permanently
employed for this job."
617
01:10:57,632 --> 01:10:59,134
What a find.
618
01:10:59,801 --> 01:11:01,803
Now, you go and deny that.
619
01:11:58,276 --> 01:12:02,864
On the 25th of May,
our wedding anniversary of all days,
620
01:12:02,864 --> 01:12:08,495
I was driven to the airport
and handed over to Polish officers there.
621
01:12:11,373 --> 01:12:14,334
An American plane took us to Warsaw.
622
01:12:35,939 --> 01:12:37,482
You darling little fellow,
623
01:12:38,066 --> 01:12:40,694
may you keep your affectionate nature.
624
01:12:40,694 --> 01:12:45,407
Life, my dear boy, will wrench you
too soon from the world of childhood.
625
01:12:45,949 --> 01:12:49,703
Now, you poor boy only have
your dear good mommy left.
626
01:13:22,569 --> 01:13:24,779
You know, throughout my years of ministry,
627
01:13:25,530 --> 01:13:27,532
I've spoken to a number of people.
628
01:13:28,199 --> 01:13:31,578
People whose lives were marred
by trials and tribulations,
629
01:13:31,578 --> 01:13:33,163
hardship,
630
01:13:34,706 --> 01:13:36,207
calamity.
631
01:13:37,459 --> 01:13:40,128
And some of them were wondering
whether their plight,
632
01:13:40,128 --> 01:13:43,465
their suffering, was due
to a generational curse,
633
01:13:43,465 --> 01:13:46,426
brought upon them by an ancestor.
634
01:13:47,135 --> 01:13:50,638
This hits particularly
close to home in my own life.
635
01:13:52,265 --> 01:13:55,268
I mean, being the grandson,
right, of Rudolf Höss.
636
01:13:58,146 --> 01:14:03,526
The infamous, ruthless SS Commandant
of the Auschwitz concentration camp.
637
01:14:03,526 --> 01:14:08,490
Just imagine having
such a person as your grandfather.
638
01:14:09,491 --> 01:14:12,160
I mean, you hear people say,
"Like father, like son."
639
01:14:13,119 --> 01:14:15,080
And so, when I considered
my own ways, and I thought,
640
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:17,290
you know, "Am I like my grandfather?
641
01:14:18,333 --> 01:14:20,001
Am I like him to some extent?"
642
01:14:21,086 --> 01:14:24,506
When I first read
Exodus chapter 20, verse 5,
643
01:14:24,506 --> 01:14:27,467
I was horrified by the thought
at having been born
644
01:14:27,467 --> 01:14:30,470
into the second generation
after Rudolf Höss,
645
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:33,056
that God's wrath was upon me.
646
01:14:35,433 --> 01:14:37,394
Because of the wicked, cold-blooded evil
647
01:14:37,394 --> 01:14:41,439
that my grandfather
had inflicted upon the Jews.
648
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:46,903
God's people.
The people of Israel.
649
01:14:46,903 --> 01:14:48,988
And, of course, many others.
650
01:14:51,366 --> 01:14:54,661
Let me just read it again
what God says here in verse 5.
651
01:14:55,328 --> 01:14:59,124
"I will visit the iniquity
the sins of the fathers
652
01:14:59,124 --> 01:15:02,627
"upon the children
and the children's children,
653
01:15:02,627 --> 01:15:05,422
to the third and fourth generation."
654
01:15:06,131 --> 01:15:08,091
But God says that any generational curse
655
01:15:08,091 --> 01:15:11,970
and the guilt and suffering
and the pain that comes with it
656
01:15:11,970 --> 01:15:15,849
can be canceled by earnest repentance.
657
01:15:15,849 --> 01:15:18,977
In other words,
what breaks the curse of sin
658
01:15:18,977 --> 01:15:23,440
is the blood of God's spotless lamb,
and he is Jesus Christ.
659
01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:27,193
Believe and you shall be saved.
660
01:15:29,863 --> 01:15:33,825
When I am in awesome wonder
661
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:37,787
Consider all the worlds
662
01:15:37,787 --> 01:15:40,999
Thy hands have made
663
01:15:41,666 --> 01:15:44,461
I see the stars
664
01:15:44,461 --> 01:15:49,007
I hear the rolling thunder
665
01:15:49,007 --> 01:15:52,010
Thy power throughout
666
01:15:52,010 --> 01:15:55,805
The universe displayed
667
01:15:55,805 --> 01:15:59,309
Then sings my soul
668
01:15:59,309 --> 01:16:03,355
My savior God, to thee
669
01:16:04,105 --> 01:16:07,108
How great Thou art
670
01:16:07,817 --> 01:16:10,653
How great Thou art
671
01:16:11,571 --> 01:16:14,115
Then sings my soul
672
01:16:14,115 --> 01:16:17,994
My savior God to Thee
673
01:16:21,706 --> 01:16:24,376
The Holocaust throws a long shadow.
674
01:16:24,376 --> 01:16:28,797
The trauma is not only
on the survivor side.
675
01:16:28,797 --> 01:16:32,300
How many German families are traumatized,
676
01:16:32,300 --> 01:16:37,514
who know or don't know
what their grandfathers have done?
677
01:16:51,069 --> 01:16:55,532
With a very small "a,"
I think of myself as an activist.
678
01:16:55,532 --> 01:16:59,994
And one of the key parts is to work with
679
01:16:59,994 --> 01:17:04,833
and understand the experience
of the children of perpetrators.
680
01:17:08,044 --> 01:17:12,007
This trip to London is very much
about seeing my mother,
681
01:17:12,007 --> 01:17:16,011
and I come this time
with a very big request
682
01:17:16,011 --> 01:17:20,015
which provokes some anxiety for me.
683
01:17:27,105 --> 01:17:28,314
Hi, Mom!
684
01:17:29,607 --> 01:17:30,900
I'm here.
685
01:17:32,485 --> 01:17:33,737
I made it.
686
01:17:33,737 --> 01:17:36,072
Good. Had a good trip?
687
01:17:36,072 --> 01:17:39,284
Yeah, not too bad
compared to some times.
688
01:17:40,702 --> 01:17:42,162
How are you?
689
01:17:42,162 --> 01:17:44,956
- I'm okay.
- What's news?
690
01:17:46,124 --> 01:17:48,001
News is that I can no longer drive,
691
01:17:48,001 --> 01:17:51,296
and I feel a bit like a trapped animal,
but I'll get used to it.
692
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,549
Anyway, that's how it is. Can't be helped.
693
01:18:01,264 --> 01:18:02,390
So, Mom.
694
01:18:03,224 --> 01:18:05,185
I'm going to be meeting
695
01:18:05,602 --> 01:18:07,437
the son of the Commandant
696
01:18:07,437 --> 01:18:11,024
and grandson of
the Commandant in Auschwitz.
697
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:14,569
Yes?
698
01:18:14,569 --> 01:18:17,947
Partly motivated--
Well, I actually would say
699
01:18:17,947 --> 01:18:22,619
largely motivated by
what I've learned from you
700
01:18:22,619 --> 01:18:24,704
and the things that you've said.
701
01:18:25,455 --> 01:18:28,333
And what do you think about that?
702
01:18:28,333 --> 01:18:31,169
Well, I think it's fantastic.
703
01:18:31,628 --> 01:18:33,797
Since the hatred goes on
704
01:18:33,797 --> 01:18:37,509
and antisemitism
is absolutely flourishing,
705
01:18:38,093 --> 01:18:40,303
it's very important
to talk about these things.
706
01:18:41,179 --> 01:18:44,224
I wanted to ask you whether
you would consider
707
01:18:44,224 --> 01:18:46,309
coming to Auschwitz with me.
708
01:18:48,895 --> 01:18:50,563
Not really, no. You know,
709
01:18:50,563 --> 01:18:53,108
my Auschwitz is very
different from your Auschwitz.
710
01:18:53,108 --> 01:18:57,779
You haven't actually been in it,
I mean, that's what I mean.
711
01:18:57,779 --> 01:19:00,907
You haven't actually been
in this situation
712
01:19:00,907 --> 01:19:04,494
where you didn't know whether
you're going to live another hour or not.
713
01:19:04,494 --> 01:19:07,789
You don't know what my Auschwitz is.
714
01:19:09,249 --> 01:19:13,128
And I want it left alone.
I want it left alone.
715
01:19:13,128 --> 01:19:17,048
I have nothing against meeting
the son of Höss,
716
01:19:17,048 --> 01:19:18,591
but I'm not going to Auschwitz.
717
01:19:18,591 --> 01:19:21,845
He should come to my house.
You know, I'm pretty disabled.
718
01:19:21,845 --> 01:19:24,973
If anybody wants anything,
has to come here.
719
01:19:24,973 --> 01:19:28,059
- That's quite a thought.
- What?
720
01:19:28,059 --> 01:19:30,770
Kaffee und kuchen in your house.
721
01:19:30,770 --> 01:19:33,481
Yes, why not? If he brings the kuchen.
722
01:20:00,508 --> 01:20:03,178
So this is Oswiecim,
723
01:20:03,178 --> 01:20:05,930
infamously known
and will always be remembered
724
01:20:05,930 --> 01:20:07,766
as "Auschwitz."
725
01:20:11,603 --> 01:20:15,106
It's a very strange thing
that there is a town
726
01:20:15,106 --> 01:20:19,361
so close to the actual concentration camp.
727
01:20:32,082 --> 01:20:38,004
When this possibility came up
that I could accompany
728
01:20:38,004 --> 01:20:43,385
the son of the Commandant of Auschwitz,
who had never been to the camp...
729
01:20:45,053 --> 01:20:47,514
and his son, my contemporary,
730
01:20:47,514 --> 01:20:54,187
that I could witness them witnessing
what they had never seen before
731
01:20:54,187 --> 01:20:57,524
was somehow, in some perverse way, a gift.
732
01:21:34,644 --> 01:21:38,356
The Hösses and I met for
the first time in the cafe
733
01:21:38,356 --> 01:21:41,609
of the last remaining
synagogue of Oswiecim,
734
01:21:41,609 --> 01:21:44,946
which used to have
a thriving Jewish community.
735
01:21:47,157 --> 01:21:52,495
It was as if time stood still.
I felt we were all breathless.
736
01:21:58,043 --> 01:21:59,502
- Ja.
- Hello.
737
01:21:59,502 --> 01:22:02,088
It's difficult to find words.
738
01:22:03,923 --> 01:22:05,925
- Yeah. I know.
- Yeah.
739
01:22:07,177 --> 01:22:09,471
It's been a heavy on-- in my heart,
740
01:22:09,471 --> 01:22:10,513
- you know, just--
- Yes.
741
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:33,203
Yeah. I understand that.
742
01:23:05,276 --> 01:23:08,530
By the will of the
Reichsfuhrer-SS Himmler,
743
01:23:08,530 --> 01:23:12,242
Auschwitz became the greatest
human extermination facility
744
01:23:12,242 --> 01:23:13,827
of all time.
745
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,128
When he personally gave me
the order to prepare a place
746
01:23:23,128 --> 01:23:25,714
for mass extermination in Auschwitz
747
01:23:25,714 --> 01:23:28,675
and to personally carry out
this extermination,
748
01:23:28,675 --> 01:23:33,346
I did not have the slightest idea
of the scale and consequences.
749
01:23:39,936 --> 01:23:42,355
This order was unusual.
750
01:23:42,355 --> 01:23:44,649
Indeed, monstrous.
751
01:23:44,649 --> 01:23:49,904
But the justification made the process
of extermination seem right to me.
752
01:24:41,831 --> 01:24:44,334
So, this is the crematoria.
753
01:24:45,335 --> 01:24:47,337
- The gas chamber.
- Right.
754
01:24:48,672 --> 01:24:50,173
Which,
755
01:24:50,715 --> 01:24:53,009
believe it or not, was maybe
756
01:24:53,009 --> 01:24:58,682
100 steps from where my mother
and the women's orchestra played.
757
01:25:01,685 --> 01:25:06,856
Transport after transport
would walk this way
758
01:25:06,856 --> 01:25:10,276
and hear music, and people
759
01:25:11,027 --> 01:25:13,530
who were coming to their deaths,
760
01:25:14,489 --> 01:25:16,991
would come to this building,
761
01:25:18,076 --> 01:25:19,911
be asked to undress,
762
01:25:19,911 --> 01:25:23,248
thinking that they were
going to have a shower,
763
01:25:23,957 --> 01:25:28,712
and told to put their shoes
and their clothes neatly,
764
01:25:28,712 --> 01:25:32,132
so that they could find them again easily.
765
01:25:34,801 --> 01:25:39,305
And within the next 30 minutes,
they were gassed.
766
01:25:50,442 --> 01:25:53,278
It's just shocking how there
was this evil deception
767
01:25:53,278 --> 01:25:55,488
that was kept up
for these people to believe
768
01:25:55,488 --> 01:25:57,907
that there was something.
There was a silver lining,
769
01:25:57,907 --> 01:26:00,535
some offer them safety, perhaps.
770
01:26:00,535 --> 01:26:03,663
Even having, when you said sh--
you know, having to fold their clothes,
771
01:26:03,663 --> 01:26:05,665
that they were gonna have a shower,
772
01:26:05,665 --> 01:26:08,585
and perhaps to keep
people from panicking
773
01:26:08,585 --> 01:26:11,171
because if all these thousands
of people had panicked...
774
01:26:11,171 --> 01:26:12,088
Yeah.
775
01:26:12,088 --> 01:26:14,174
...it would've been very difficult
to contain that.
776
01:26:14,174 --> 01:26:17,218
I think this is so terrible.
777
01:26:17,510 --> 01:26:21,848
Schrecklich, as they say in German.
It's a horror.
778
01:26:21,848 --> 01:26:25,310
And then the realization hits home,
779
01:26:25,894 --> 01:26:27,395
who did this?
780
01:26:28,438 --> 01:26:31,483
And it is actually no other
than my grandfather.
781
01:26:45,830 --> 01:26:46,706
Yeah.
782
01:27:13,775 --> 01:27:18,780
I had to witness death itself
through the spyhole of the gas chamber.
783
01:27:34,796 --> 01:27:37,298
I had to witness all the processes.
784
01:27:41,845 --> 01:27:44,305
I had to watch, day and night,
785
01:27:44,305 --> 01:27:47,225
the dragging and
the burning of the bodies.
786
01:27:51,980 --> 01:27:53,481
The removal of the teeth.
787
01:27:55,358 --> 01:28:00,447
The cutting off of the hair.
All this ghastliness, for hours on end.
788
01:28:10,415 --> 01:28:13,626
I had to do all this
because I had to show everyone
789
01:28:13,626 --> 01:28:16,921
that I was willing to be
present everywhere myself
790
01:28:16,921 --> 01:28:20,008
as I had to demand
of those I was commanding.
791
01:28:21,843 --> 01:28:25,180
The smell of the burning was
carried many kilometers away
792
01:28:25,180 --> 01:28:26,473
and led to the whole population
793
01:28:26,473 --> 01:28:29,017
talking of the burning of the Jews.
794
01:28:33,188 --> 01:28:37,734
I think there is no one else that did
what he did on such a scale.
795
01:28:37,734 --> 01:28:44,574
It is a fact, an undeniable fact,
that my grandfather is really the...
796
01:28:46,076 --> 01:28:49,329
the greatest mass murderer
in human history.
797
01:30:16,416 --> 01:30:21,296
May the public continue seeing in me
the bloodthirsty beast,
798
01:30:21,921 --> 01:30:23,923
the savage sadist,
799
01:30:25,133 --> 01:30:26,843
the murderer of millions
800
01:30:27,927 --> 01:30:30,680
because the mass of people cannot imagine
801
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:34,142
the Commandant of Auschwitz
to be anything other.
802
01:30:36,478 --> 01:30:40,315
They would never understand
that he had a heart, too.
803
01:30:41,608 --> 01:30:43,109
Rudolf Höss.
804
01:30:49,532 --> 01:30:53,203
I think he was kinda polishing
his image a little bit.
805
01:30:53,203 --> 01:30:56,873
He had come to the end of the line.
Death was inevitable.
806
01:31:58,518 --> 01:32:00,979
This is the last statement
Rudolf Höss, my grandfather,
807
01:32:00,979 --> 01:32:02,772
made before his execution.
808
01:32:04,024 --> 01:32:07,527
"My conscience compels me to
make the following declaration.
809
01:32:08,236 --> 01:32:11,740
"In the solitude of my prison cell,
I have come to the bitter recognition
810
01:32:11,740 --> 01:32:14,743
that I have sinned gravely
against humanity."
811
01:32:21,583 --> 01:32:23,293
As Commandant of Auschwitz,
812
01:32:23,293 --> 01:32:26,046
I carried out part of the cruel plans
813
01:32:26,046 --> 01:32:29,132
of the Third Reich
for human extermination.
814
01:32:31,843 --> 01:32:36,723
In so doing,
I inflicted grievous damage onto humans
815
01:32:36,723 --> 01:32:38,725
and humanity.
816
01:32:44,064 --> 01:32:47,901
I'm to pay with my life
for what I'm responsible for.
817
01:32:53,156 --> 01:32:56,868
May the Lord God forgive me
one day for what I have done.
818
01:33:05,627 --> 01:33:08,046
Do you think we could see
something like the Holocaust
819
01:33:08,046 --> 01:33:10,924
- happening again?
- It could happen again,
820
01:33:10,924 --> 01:33:12,884
something like the Holocaust
could happen again.
821
01:33:12,884 --> 01:33:14,719
I mean, look at the world now.
822
01:33:15,136 --> 01:33:19,599
It looks different. Yes, it can happen
again because I think
823
01:33:19,599 --> 01:33:22,686
we humans behave atrociously badly.
824
01:34:36,176 --> 01:34:38,178
- Guten tag.
- Come in.
825
01:34:48,229 --> 01:34:49,522
Oops.
826
01:35:01,534 --> 01:35:04,120
Wunderbar. Fantastisch.
827
01:35:17,217 --> 01:35:18,718
Ja.
828
01:35:23,056 --> 01:35:24,057
Ja.
829
01:35:53,712 --> 01:35:55,130
- Ja.
- Ja.
830
01:36:02,429 --> 01:36:07,892
So do you hate your grandfather now?
What is your feeling?
831
01:36:07,892 --> 01:36:10,020
I would hate him, yes. I could say that.
832
01:36:10,020 --> 01:36:12,605
- I hate him, yeah.
- What about you?
833
01:36:30,999 --> 01:36:32,542
- Ja.
- Ja.
834
01:36:32,542 --> 01:36:35,837
Very peculiar situations that we
should be sitting here together
835
01:36:35,837 --> 01:36:39,466
and talking about
these terrible days, yes?
836
01:36:40,091 --> 01:36:44,012
And there are you,
who knew nothing about it
837
01:36:44,012 --> 01:36:47,098
because there was a fence
between the horror
838
01:36:47,098 --> 01:36:49,517
and a normal life, yes.
839
01:36:50,060 --> 01:36:56,775
To somebody like your father, I suppose,
these Jews seemed like vermin,
840
01:36:56,775 --> 01:36:59,152
- not people. Vermin.
- Yeah, yeah.
841
01:36:59,152 --> 01:37:01,946
You need the Jews
to have something to let
842
01:37:01,946 --> 01:37:04,949
your own shortcomings out on, you know?
843
01:37:04,949 --> 01:37:07,535
- Yeah.
- The Jews are original.
844
01:37:07,535 --> 01:37:13,917
They're just people. And it's time
to stop that stupid hatred of Jews.
845
01:37:15,377 --> 01:37:17,212
The Jews are God's chosen people.
846
01:37:17,212 --> 01:37:19,422
Only what for are we chosen?
847
01:37:19,422 --> 01:37:21,925
You know the famous prayer of the Jews...
848
01:37:24,511 --> 01:37:26,346
"Why don't You choose
somebody else for a change
849
01:37:26,346 --> 01:37:29,432
as the chosen people?"
You know, what have we done?
850
01:37:31,142 --> 01:37:33,520
What have we done?
851
01:37:34,813 --> 01:37:38,775
I mean, today, a boy wears
a koppel on the head
852
01:37:38,775 --> 01:37:40,944
is not out of danger.
853
01:37:40,944 --> 01:37:43,488
So, we haven't really made
so much progress yet,
854
01:37:43,488 --> 01:37:46,032
so we have still got lots to do.
855
01:37:46,032 --> 01:37:49,786
We have a responsibility,
the second generation,
856
01:37:49,786 --> 01:37:52,664
to continue to communicate
857
01:37:52,664 --> 01:37:55,917
and speak about humanity
858
01:37:55,917 --> 01:37:57,836
and the absence of...
859
01:37:57,836 --> 01:38:00,171
And make sure it's not forgotten, move on.
860
01:38:02,132 --> 01:38:03,883
You can't forgive what-- what's happened,
861
01:38:03,883 --> 01:38:07,345
but the important thing is that
we talk to each other
862
01:38:08,513 --> 01:38:09,973
and understand each other.
863
01:38:14,561 --> 01:38:18,231
This is going to the next stage,
not what we've done,
864
01:38:18,231 --> 01:38:21,484
but what are we doing now.
That is important.
865
01:38:24,863 --> 01:38:27,532
Yeah, it certainly was a unique moment,
866
01:38:27,532 --> 01:38:31,578
of the son of the Commandant of Auschwitz
walking into my house,
867
01:38:31,578 --> 01:38:37,000
sitting down in a chair opposite me,
and we're having a cup of coffee together.
868
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:40,587
I mean, in a way, that was beautiful.
869
01:39:08,281 --> 01:39:10,283
My grandfather, Rudolf Höss,
870
01:39:10,283 --> 01:39:15,663
was instrumental in the annihilation
of two-thirds of Europe's Jews.
871
01:39:29,135 --> 01:39:32,097
Thirty years after he had
crossed the Judean Desert
872
01:39:32,097 --> 01:39:36,685
during the First World War,
a Jewish state was proclaimed here
873
01:39:37,727 --> 01:39:40,730
in the hope that it would
protect future generations.