1 00:00:00,478 --> 00:00:06,441 ♪ 2 00:00:06,484 --> 00:00:08,182 Oh, hello. [Laughs] 3 00:00:08,225 --> 00:00:10,619 Welcome to "Off Script with The Hollywood Reporter." 4 00:00:10,662 --> 00:00:12,055 I'm your host, Yvonne Orji, 5 00:00:12,142 --> 00:00:14,536 here at the beautiful Georgian Hotel 6 00:00:14,666 --> 00:00:17,626 in sunny Santa Monica, California. 7 00:00:17,713 --> 00:00:21,238 Now, normally five comedians is usually a pretty long show. 8 00:00:21,325 --> 00:00:22,631 Six, and you're pushing it. 9 00:00:22,718 --> 00:00:24,807 Today we are definitely pushing it. 10 00:00:24,894 --> 00:00:26,896 But the good news is there are no tickets, 11 00:00:26,983 --> 00:00:30,291 no drink minimums, and definitely no hecklers. 12 00:00:30,378 --> 00:00:33,772 Oh, unless you count the comics heckling themselves. 13 00:00:33,903 --> 00:00:36,253 But today we are gonna hear from... 14 00:00:36,340 --> 00:00:39,561 Mike Birbiglia of "The Old Man and the Pool"... 15 00:00:39,691 --> 00:00:42,564 Alex Edelman of "Just for Us"... 16 00:00:42,694 --> 00:00:45,436 Jacqueline Novak of "Get on Your Knees"... 17 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:47,917 Jenny Slate of "Seasoned Professional"... 18 00:00:48,004 --> 00:00:49,614 Taylor Tomlinson of 19 00:00:49,745 --> 00:00:51,790 "Have It All" and "After Midnight"... 20 00:00:51,877 --> 00:00:54,576 and Ramy Youssef of "More Feelings." 21 00:00:54,663 --> 00:00:57,231 ♪♪ 22 00:00:57,318 --> 00:01:00,538 So sit back and relax as our panel goes on the record 23 00:01:00,582 --> 00:01:04,238 but just a little Off Script with The Hollywood Reporter. 24 00:01:05,761 --> 00:01:07,589 They're all yours, Lacey. 25 00:01:07,676 --> 00:01:09,156 Thanks, Yvonne. 26 00:01:09,199 --> 00:01:11,158 Hi, and welcome to the stand-up roundtable. 27 00:01:11,288 --> 00:01:14,291 I'm Lacey Rose. And thank you all for being here. 28 00:01:14,422 --> 00:01:16,380 I'm gonna start with a question for everyone. 29 00:01:16,424 --> 00:01:19,166 You're standing on stage. You look out at the audience. 30 00:01:19,253 --> 00:01:22,256 Describe the audience member that you dread the most. 31 00:01:22,343 --> 00:01:23,561 A man! 32 00:01:23,648 --> 00:01:25,128 [Laughter] 33 00:01:25,215 --> 00:01:27,957 Sorry. I had to. I couldn't resist. 34 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,698 Look. I've changed. 35 00:01:29,785 --> 00:01:31,961 Nothing's changed in me since joining a roundtable. 36 00:01:32,003 --> 00:01:34,572 It could be, uh, someone that's drunk. 37 00:01:34,703 --> 00:01:36,618 It could be someone you know. 38 00:01:36,705 --> 00:01:38,663 I mean, it could be any number of things. 39 00:01:38,707 --> 00:01:40,795 The figure in the joke? Person in the joke? 40 00:01:40,926 --> 00:01:42,014 I've had that experience before. 41 00:01:42,102 --> 00:01:43,494 You're telling the joke. 42 00:01:43,625 --> 00:01:45,322 The person the joke is about is in the crowd, 43 00:01:45,408 --> 00:01:46,454 and you're just like, "Oh, God." 44 00:01:46,584 --> 00:01:48,325 And you go for it anyway. 45 00:01:48,412 --> 00:01:50,240 I mean, you have to. 46 00:01:50,283 --> 00:01:52,851 I think "anybody you know" is a really good answer. 47 00:01:52,938 --> 00:01:55,071 Like, I've had people from high school come and sit 48 00:01:55,115 --> 00:01:57,856 in the front row, and you're like, "No, please. Not there." 49 00:01:57,987 --> 00:01:59,554 Why do they do that? They love that. 50 00:01:59,597 --> 00:02:01,121 They love that.They think they're supporting you. 51 00:02:01,208 --> 00:02:03,601 They do. And they are. And we appreciate it. 52 00:02:03,645 --> 00:02:05,429 But it's --Do we, though? 53 00:02:05,473 --> 00:02:07,910 I mean, I do. I'm just like, "Sit like halfway back. 54 00:02:07,997 --> 00:02:11,609 Right when the darkness starts at midway point in the audience. 55 00:02:11,696 --> 00:02:14,134 And any, like, folded pair of arms in the front row. 56 00:02:14,264 --> 00:02:16,527 I think, no matter who they're attached to, 57 00:02:16,571 --> 00:02:19,313 you're kind of like, "Let's unfold those over the course of the night." 58 00:02:19,356 --> 00:02:21,924 People you know is not who you want 59 00:02:22,011 --> 00:02:23,621 in a stand-up comedy audience. 60 00:02:23,708 --> 00:02:25,928 Jacqueline and I toured together for like a few years, 61 00:02:26,015 --> 00:02:28,670 and we always compared it to 62 00:02:28,713 --> 00:02:32,152 if you were an exotic dancer or a stripper, 63 00:02:32,239 --> 00:02:34,110 where it's like -- you don't really want 64 00:02:34,241 --> 00:02:36,460 your friends to be there when you're stripping. 65 00:02:36,504 --> 00:02:38,418 Your non-comedy friends. 66 00:02:38,506 --> 00:02:40,812 Yeah, your non-stripping friends or whatever. 67 00:02:40,899 --> 00:02:42,249 Right. You're non-stripping friends. 68 00:02:42,336 --> 00:02:43,728 Maybe they tip more, though. 69 00:02:43,815 --> 00:02:46,905 -Ooh! -I think it's a seduction. 70 00:02:46,992 --> 00:02:49,734 It's embarrassed to be seen in a seduction. Absolutely. 71 00:02:49,821 --> 00:02:51,867 We used to talk about a business voice or whatever. 72 00:02:51,954 --> 00:02:53,695 -Right? -Oh, my God. Yes. 73 00:02:53,781 --> 00:02:56,828 Someone catches you on the phone with your doctor's office 74 00:02:56,915 --> 00:02:58,874 being like, "I'm around on Tuesday, 75 00:02:58,961 --> 00:03:00,528 but if Wednesday works, that could work, too." 76 00:03:00,571 --> 00:03:02,225 It's like your business voice. 77 00:03:02,312 --> 00:03:04,401 If someone catches you doing your business voice, 78 00:03:04,488 --> 00:03:06,186 you're like, "Oh, I'm so ashamed." 79 00:03:06,273 --> 00:03:07,883 Yeah. It's a little bit of that. 80 00:03:07,970 --> 00:03:09,798 But, Jacqueline, I feel like I've read 81 00:03:09,928 --> 00:03:12,453 you used to actually look at who was coming to the show 82 00:03:12,583 --> 00:03:15,282 each night, and that would --Like a pervert. 83 00:03:15,369 --> 00:03:18,415 I wasn't going to say that, 84 00:03:18,459 --> 00:03:20,200 but that does feel like --Not every night. 85 00:03:20,329 --> 00:03:22,898 I will say the journalists pushed that towards hyperbole. 86 00:03:22,985 --> 00:03:25,204 Got it, got it, got it. 87 00:03:25,292 --> 00:03:27,337 [Laughter] 88 00:03:27,424 --> 00:03:29,296 You know what I did do the night before? 89 00:03:29,339 --> 00:03:33,256 Like, uh, opening my show at, uh, Cherry Lane -- 90 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:34,997 very, very nervous. 91 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,086 I started looking at the names, the ticket sales. 92 00:03:37,173 --> 00:03:39,654 Just like -- Literally. I'm a log-in girl. 93 00:03:39,741 --> 00:03:42,570 You know, I like to get into the back end and see it all live. 94 00:03:42,656 --> 00:03:45,790 -That's -- -Terrifying! 95 00:03:45,877 --> 00:03:48,358 And I just went through and I just -- Names I didn't know. 96 00:03:48,489 --> 00:03:51,143 Let this be a warning to all future comedy audience members. 97 00:03:51,231 --> 00:03:53,537 -We're watching you. -But I love it. 98 00:03:53,624 --> 00:03:55,409 I would never look at the list! 99 00:03:55,496 --> 00:03:56,888 Well, that's what I was gonna ask. Who else has looked? 100 00:03:57,019 --> 00:03:58,586 And have you been rattled? 101 00:03:58,673 --> 00:04:00,414 Whether it's an ex. Whether it's an idol. 102 00:04:00,544 --> 00:04:03,112 Do you look at the list? Do you actually want to know? 103 00:04:03,199 --> 00:04:05,593 And has it ever sort of rattled you in real time? 104 00:04:05,723 --> 00:04:07,769 For logistical reasons sometimes. 105 00:04:07,812 --> 00:04:10,119 Like, my cousin -- Because sometimes my cousins are coming. 106 00:04:10,206 --> 00:04:12,643 I have a lot of cousins, apparently, and my mom would be like, 107 00:04:12,730 --> 00:04:14,689 "Nancy was there and you didn't say hi!" 108 00:04:14,776 --> 00:04:16,603 And I'm like, "Well, I didn't know she was coming." 109 00:04:16,690 --> 00:04:18,475 And she was like, "She told you on the family WhatsApp." 110 00:04:18,562 --> 00:04:19,998 And it's like, "Well, I forgot." 111 00:04:20,084 --> 00:04:22,784 So my emcee will sometimes go through 112 00:04:22,914 --> 00:04:24,742 and pick anyone with the last name Edelman 113 00:04:24,829 --> 00:04:27,267 or any of the other associated names, and she'll be like, 114 00:04:27,397 --> 00:04:29,834 "Does this person belong to you?" Yeah. 115 00:04:29,965 --> 00:04:32,272 But it's weird when an idol comes to see your show. 116 00:04:32,359 --> 00:04:35,100 It's like, how did anyone ever, like, kill Lincoln? 117 00:04:35,231 --> 00:04:37,538 Because the entire audience is watching the famous person. 118 00:04:37,625 --> 00:04:39,148 I was like, "Wasn't at that show." 119 00:04:39,235 --> 00:04:40,802 Everyone's like, "Is Lincoln enjoying this? 120 00:04:40,889 --> 00:04:42,717 Does Lincoln think 'Our American Cousin' is good? 121 00:04:42,847 --> 00:04:45,067 Is he? Is he? Oh. Oh, no. Shit. They're..." 122 00:04:45,197 --> 00:04:47,069 Like, you know, that's how I felt like any time, 123 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:49,201 like, a famous comedian came. People would be like, 124 00:04:49,332 --> 00:04:52,335 "What does so-and-so? think of that joke? 125 00:04:52,466 --> 00:04:54,032 Does so-and-so think that punchline is...?" 126 00:04:54,119 --> 00:04:55,469 But are you doing that, too? 127 00:04:55,512 --> 00:04:57,122 I mean, from stage, are you also -- 128 00:04:57,253 --> 00:04:58,385 I try not to look at them. 129 00:04:58,472 --> 00:04:59,777 I scan the audience like... 130 00:04:59,864 --> 00:05:01,518 Do you blur your eyes at the audience? 131 00:05:01,605 --> 00:05:04,216 -I look right into the light. -You gotta engage. 132 00:05:04,260 --> 00:05:05,870 -Really? -I can't. 133 00:05:05,914 --> 00:05:08,960 I play to each section of the... Really? 134 00:05:09,047 --> 00:05:11,311 Like it's tic-tac-toe. You got to... 135 00:05:11,398 --> 00:05:14,357 Then you section them. You don't have a leader? 136 00:05:14,444 --> 00:05:16,664 I cater to the pockets that aren't laughing 137 00:05:16,794 --> 00:05:18,143 and try to sort of, like -- 138 00:05:18,230 --> 00:05:20,407 Desperately try to tickle them from below. 139 00:05:20,537 --> 00:05:22,757 Or sometimes I go "They're not laughing because I'm looking at them." 140 00:05:22,844 --> 00:05:25,716 So I look at the other side. I'm working the -- 141 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,328 Do you tickle them from below? Like, I just... 142 00:05:28,415 --> 00:05:29,720 [Laughter] 143 00:05:29,851 --> 00:05:31,592 I don't want us to move off that phrase 144 00:05:31,679 --> 00:05:33,289 because I saw you trying to get away from it, Jacqueline, 145 00:05:33,376 --> 00:05:35,944 and now I'm like, "I want a little bit more." 146 00:05:36,031 --> 00:05:37,554 -I was hiding my pride. -I love it. 147 00:05:37,685 --> 00:05:39,513 How do you actually define a bad show? 148 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,906 Like, there's got to be some memorable disasters 149 00:05:41,950 --> 00:05:43,299 in this bunch because everyone has them. 150 00:05:43,430 --> 00:05:44,953 It's always kind of nice 151 00:05:45,082 --> 00:05:47,085 when you don't get what you want from a show, 152 00:05:47,172 --> 00:05:50,698 because then the next show is better. 153 00:05:50,784 --> 00:05:52,352 That's kind of the only way I ever wrote material, 154 00:05:52,395 --> 00:05:53,614 was just having really bad shows. 155 00:05:53,701 --> 00:05:55,267 But how do you define that? 156 00:05:55,355 --> 00:05:56,834 What does that actually feel like in real time? 157 00:05:56,921 --> 00:05:59,141 For me, it just feels like not connecting 158 00:05:59,228 --> 00:06:00,751 with the people who were there. 159 00:06:00,838 --> 00:06:02,971 So sometimes if I walk off and I'm like, 160 00:06:03,058 --> 00:06:05,582 "Oh, I was just saying what I had in my head before I got up there," 161 00:06:05,626 --> 00:06:07,454 then it wasn't really effective, you know? 162 00:06:07,541 --> 00:06:09,281 So if I'm just saying things I could have said to myself 163 00:06:09,325 --> 00:06:10,805 in my hotel room, it's a pretty bad show. 164 00:06:10,892 --> 00:06:12,720 Like, I didn't connect with who was there. 165 00:06:12,807 --> 00:06:14,504 Edelman: So, like, at the Comedy Cellar, 166 00:06:14,635 --> 00:06:16,767 sometimes a bad show is a show where you fucking crush. 167 00:06:16,854 --> 00:06:19,117 Sometimes you go up there and you destroy 168 00:06:19,204 --> 00:06:20,597 and you come off, and people are like, "Great set." 169 00:06:20,641 --> 00:06:22,382 You're like, no, I wanted to try new stuff, 170 00:06:22,469 --> 00:06:25,428 but I tried a sort of half-new joke and it didn't work, 171 00:06:25,515 --> 00:06:29,084 and I lost a little faith, so I was like, well, here's 15 minutes of, you know... 172 00:06:29,171 --> 00:06:31,739 Here's 15 minutes of stuff that I know is gonna do well. 173 00:06:31,869 --> 00:06:35,090 And so, like, if I plan on going down to the Comedy Cellar, 174 00:06:35,133 --> 00:06:36,526 which is where you have to do well, 175 00:06:36,613 --> 00:06:38,746 but also, like, really work stuff out 176 00:06:38,789 --> 00:06:40,704 and I go on stage and I lose my nerve 177 00:06:40,791 --> 00:06:42,663 and I do really well with the audience, 178 00:06:42,750 --> 00:06:44,969 but I don't come away with anything, that's a failure. 179 00:06:45,056 --> 00:06:48,277 That's a big mistake because it's still a service industry. 180 00:06:48,364 --> 00:06:50,018 But you also have to progress as an artist. 181 00:06:50,105 --> 00:06:52,194 And sometimes those two things are --At odds. 182 00:06:52,324 --> 00:06:54,849 Oh, my gosh. I was just sitting here listening to Alex going, 183 00:06:54,892 --> 00:06:58,243 "I'm so glad I didn't tackle this bad-show question." 184 00:06:58,330 --> 00:07:01,508 Because Ramy and Alex had these very artistic answers, 185 00:07:01,551 --> 00:07:03,684 and I was like, "Acoustics!" 186 00:07:03,814 --> 00:07:05,250 [Laughter] 187 00:07:05,381 --> 00:07:07,731 A high ceiling? A nightmare! 188 00:07:07,862 --> 00:07:09,777 Like, ooh.And you're not wrong. 189 00:07:09,864 --> 00:07:12,693 Not wrong.When you crush, it can be a bad show. 190 00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:14,956 I was like, "Oh, no!" 191 00:07:15,043 --> 00:07:16,827 That is such a humblebrag. 192 00:07:16,914 --> 00:07:18,438 [Laughter] 193 00:07:18,525 --> 00:07:21,005 Well, since we all share and sharing is caring, 194 00:07:21,092 --> 00:07:23,443 the person that I was always most scared to see 195 00:07:23,530 --> 00:07:25,183 in the audience was my mama. 196 00:07:25,270 --> 00:07:27,229 I mean, she would just be sitting there all mad 197 00:07:27,359 --> 00:07:29,144 'cause technically I was wasting all the money 198 00:07:29,231 --> 00:07:31,015 she spent on college tuition to tell jokes. 199 00:07:31,146 --> 00:07:34,715 But she's good now. I think. I hope. 200 00:07:34,845 --> 00:07:36,412 Anyway, more with our panel after the break. 201 00:07:36,499 --> 00:07:38,022 No, she's really good. I promise. 202 00:07:38,066 --> 00:07:40,808 Oh, she's great. She loves it. [Chuckles] 203 00:07:40,895 --> 00:07:43,767 Oh, it's gonna be a long Thanksgiving. 204 00:07:43,811 --> 00:07:45,116 Anyway, see you soon. 205 00:07:45,290 --> 00:07:50,731 ♪ 206 00:07:52,994 --> 00:07:58,565 ♪ 207 00:07:58,739 --> 00:08:01,481 Welcome back to "Off Script with The Hollywood Reporter." 208 00:08:01,611 --> 00:08:03,395 Now, in stand-up, how do you know 209 00:08:03,526 --> 00:08:05,528 when you're having a bad show? That's easy. 210 00:08:05,659 --> 00:08:08,357 No one, and I do mean no one, is laughing. 211 00:08:08,488 --> 00:08:10,490 But is that always a bad thing? Hmm. 212 00:08:10,620 --> 00:08:12,753 Let's hear what these comics have to say. 213 00:08:12,796 --> 00:08:15,190 There are places that audiences will go with you, 214 00:08:15,277 --> 00:08:17,192 and there are places where you can sort of feel 215 00:08:17,279 --> 00:08:18,976 perhaps they won't. I feel like, Taylor, 216 00:08:19,107 --> 00:08:21,544 I've heard you talk about sort of earlier in your career, 217 00:08:21,631 --> 00:08:23,415 there was sort of darker material, 218 00:08:23,459 --> 00:08:25,287 whether it had to do with your mom or something else, 219 00:08:25,330 --> 00:08:29,247 where you could feel audiences didn't want to go with you. 220 00:08:29,334 --> 00:08:30,988 I'm curious sort of -- what does that feel like, 221 00:08:31,075 --> 00:08:32,207 and when does that shift for you? 222 00:08:32,294 --> 00:08:34,078 With that specific material, 223 00:08:34,164 --> 00:08:35,732 I mean, I just started really young. 224 00:08:35,818 --> 00:08:38,866 I started in high school, so watching a 19-year-old 225 00:08:38,953 --> 00:08:41,216 do stand-up at all is very uncomfortable. 226 00:08:41,346 --> 00:08:43,434 And people are already scared for you 227 00:08:43,523 --> 00:08:45,786 and nervous about the show. 228 00:08:45,915 --> 00:08:48,919 So I don't think I had the maturity as a performer to pull those jokes off. 229 00:08:48,963 --> 00:08:52,183 But what does it look like when it's not working? 230 00:08:52,270 --> 00:08:54,185 How do you know that? How are you -- 231 00:08:54,316 --> 00:08:55,665 Oh, people aren't laughing. 232 00:08:55,752 --> 00:08:58,668 And it's devastating. Oh, it's so bad. 233 00:08:58,712 --> 00:09:01,323 It's what I would call a bad show. 234 00:09:01,410 --> 00:09:03,194 For other people, it's when people are laughing too much, 235 00:09:03,281 --> 00:09:04,892 and you're like, "No, none of this is new." 236 00:09:04,979 --> 00:09:08,025 Uh, no -- I really like -- 237 00:09:08,112 --> 00:09:12,203 Yeah, when people are sad and uncomfortable 238 00:09:12,290 --> 00:09:15,119 and looking at you like, "Are you almost done?" 239 00:09:15,206 --> 00:09:18,209 Like, yeah, I think that's what's so great about stand-up, 240 00:09:18,253 --> 00:09:21,735 is you know pretty quickly if something does or doesn't work. 241 00:09:21,822 --> 00:09:23,867 Like Alex was saying, you just go up wherever you can 242 00:09:23,954 --> 00:09:26,261 and you try out the same material in front of 243 00:09:26,391 --> 00:09:28,393 as many different audiences as you can, 244 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,308 whether they're there for you or not. 245 00:09:30,395 --> 00:09:32,223 I think that's important to go up in front of people 246 00:09:32,310 --> 00:09:34,138 who aren't there to see you specifically, 247 00:09:34,225 --> 00:09:36,924 like you were saying, so that you know it is going to work, 248 00:09:37,011 --> 00:09:39,013 if not everywhere, most places, 249 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:41,102 so that when it does get on a big platform 250 00:09:41,189 --> 00:09:42,930 like Netflix or HBO, 251 00:09:43,060 --> 00:09:44,714 that people who aren't familiar with you 252 00:09:44,845 --> 00:09:47,195 will hopefully be converted into fans.Sure. 253 00:09:47,325 --> 00:09:49,676 Are there subjects that you feel like your audiences 254 00:09:49,763 --> 00:09:52,504 were at any point sort of uncomfortable going with you? 255 00:09:52,635 --> 00:09:54,419 Mike said something to me. "Birbigs." 256 00:09:54,463 --> 00:09:56,596 Said something like, you know, 257 00:09:56,683 --> 00:10:00,512 "There's your agenda and the audience's agenda 258 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,603 or the booker's agenda," or whatever. 259 00:10:03,733 --> 00:10:07,345 And something along the lines of, like, "Work your agenda." 260 00:10:07,432 --> 00:10:11,741 Right? So, for me, that meant working on my show or like, 261 00:10:11,785 --> 00:10:13,917 "Okay, I'm gonna put it up in New York or whatever." 262 00:10:14,004 --> 00:10:17,660 But I'm doing it at the Juke Box in Peoria 263 00:10:17,747 --> 00:10:20,707 and, like, I know it's not gonna -- 264 00:10:20,794 --> 00:10:22,839 Some people might find it kind of interesting or whatever, 265 00:10:22,970 --> 00:10:25,494 but there is no sort of pleasing them. 266 00:10:25,581 --> 00:10:28,845 I am planting my feet and saying the words, 267 00:10:28,932 --> 00:10:31,587 and I'm kind of maybe burning my chance in the room. 268 00:10:31,718 --> 00:10:33,023 You know what I mean? 269 00:10:33,154 --> 00:10:35,243 I did it at the Punch Line in Philly. 270 00:10:35,330 --> 00:10:37,201 Chris, my boyfriend, was like, 271 00:10:37,288 --> 00:10:38,812 "You know, the way you went up in Philly and just, like, bombed." 272 00:10:38,855 --> 00:10:40,770 And I was like, "I bombed?" You know? 273 00:10:40,857 --> 00:10:42,119 I was like, "What do you mean? 274 00:10:42,206 --> 00:10:44,731 I mean, I stood up there doing my art." 275 00:10:44,818 --> 00:10:46,863 It was almost the delusion. The required delusion. 276 00:10:46,950 --> 00:10:50,127 But this phrase, like, "my agenda," 277 00:10:50,214 --> 00:10:52,564 really helped me almost, you know, 278 00:10:52,652 --> 00:10:54,349 not listen to the crowd kind of 279 00:10:54,436 --> 00:10:56,394 and go, like, 280 00:10:56,481 --> 00:10:59,267 "I gotta just -- I gotta do what I think I gotta do 281 00:10:59,310 --> 00:11:03,445 and trust that what I'm saying will find its audience." 282 00:11:03,575 --> 00:11:07,536 And so I had to block almost the crowd reaction. 283 00:11:07,623 --> 00:11:09,059 I mean, it doesn't matter. 284 00:11:09,190 --> 00:11:10,408 Tonight everyone in this room might hate me. 285 00:11:10,495 --> 00:11:11,845 This club will never hire me again. 286 00:11:11,975 --> 00:11:13,716 I had a lot of bad nights, like, you know, 287 00:11:13,803 --> 00:11:15,892 and those nights where I had to stand there 288 00:11:15,979 --> 00:11:19,026 and say my words and get them in my head. 289 00:11:19,156 --> 00:11:20,723 Thanks, Birbigs. 290 00:11:20,810 --> 00:11:22,594 But you're getting at something, right? 291 00:11:22,638 --> 00:11:25,075 The thing is trying to get somewhere. 292 00:11:25,162 --> 00:11:27,643 Like, you can't just rehearse in a space. 293 00:11:27,730 --> 00:11:30,254 I've heard stories about some comics who have. 294 00:11:30,298 --> 00:11:32,039 Who just run their set and empty a room? 295 00:11:32,126 --> 00:11:34,128 Run their set in a carriage house filled with mirrors. 296 00:11:34,258 --> 00:11:35,956 -What? -Who does that? 297 00:11:36,043 --> 00:11:38,132 -Chris Rock. -Chris Rock. Yeah. 298 00:11:38,219 --> 00:11:40,221 I thought that was a metaphor. I was like, "That's beautiful." 299 00:11:40,308 --> 00:11:42,963 No, but he actually built mirrors, yeah. 300 00:11:43,050 --> 00:11:46,270 Built mirrors and, like, did that for I think -- 301 00:11:46,401 --> 00:11:48,055 Before "Bring the Pain."Yeah. Yeah. 302 00:11:48,098 --> 00:11:50,274 And, by the way, how embarrassing 303 00:11:50,405 --> 00:11:53,016 that Lacey knew that and none of the... 304 00:11:53,103 --> 00:11:54,539 I read an article once. I don't know. 305 00:11:54,626 --> 00:11:56,585 I remember it now that you said that. 306 00:11:56,672 --> 00:11:58,282 No, he absolutely did that....beautifully phrased. 307 00:11:58,326 --> 00:12:00,894 No one else has a mirrored room in their house? 308 00:12:00,981 --> 00:12:03,548 No, stand there with a hairbrush and the thing. 309 00:12:03,635 --> 00:12:06,682 But, like... I think you gotta -- 310 00:12:06,769 --> 00:12:08,379 You have to get on stage, and there is a goal. 311 00:12:08,466 --> 00:12:11,382 And the goal is growth. And it's also a service thing. 312 00:12:11,426 --> 00:12:13,428 So, like, what do you do? 313 00:12:13,471 --> 00:12:15,299 How do you show up for both? 314 00:12:15,386 --> 00:12:17,780 Sometimes I'll go on stage, material that I know works, 315 00:12:17,867 --> 00:12:19,695 and then graft it onto it very carefully 316 00:12:19,826 --> 00:12:21,566 new material, and the material I know works, 317 00:12:21,653 --> 00:12:23,743 and then grafted onto it very carefully new material. 318 00:12:23,786 --> 00:12:26,049 "Oh, and that's working. I'll follow that path. That didn't work." 319 00:12:26,093 --> 00:12:28,008 Here's new material grafted onto, like, a thing... 320 00:12:28,138 --> 00:12:29,270 That's so pro. 321 00:12:29,313 --> 00:12:31,141 That, to me, is like a discipline 322 00:12:31,228 --> 00:12:32,577 that I don't always have. 323 00:12:32,664 --> 00:12:33,927 I kind of like -- You know, I'm like, 324 00:12:33,970 --> 00:12:36,407 "Let's drive it into the ground!" 325 00:12:36,494 --> 00:12:39,584 You know, sort of these big swings of -- I don't know. 326 00:12:39,715 --> 00:12:40,977 Well, sometimes you get desperate. 327 00:12:41,064 --> 00:12:42,849 Sometimes if a big new show 328 00:12:42,936 --> 00:12:44,546 where you need a lot of new material is approaching, 329 00:12:44,633 --> 00:12:47,244 you go, "Well, tonight can't be service night. 330 00:12:47,331 --> 00:12:49,159 Tonight is kamikaze night." Right. 331 00:12:49,203 --> 00:12:50,813 And you just go out there with all this stuff. 332 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:52,423 And then some nights you're like, 333 00:12:52,510 --> 00:12:54,382 "I've got a couple months till that show 334 00:12:54,425 --> 00:12:57,602 that needs to be ready, and so here's a little more." 335 00:12:57,689 --> 00:13:00,605 Risk-averse. X, Y, and Z. So that you kill. 336 00:13:00,736 --> 00:13:02,259 But it's like a...Yeah. 337 00:13:02,346 --> 00:13:04,914 What felt at the time like the riskiest bit? 338 00:13:04,958 --> 00:13:06,742 I did a show called "The New One." 339 00:13:06,829 --> 00:13:08,700 It was on Netflix, and it was about having a child 340 00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:10,485 and about the darkest feelings 341 00:13:10,528 --> 00:13:12,443 because I never wanted to have a child, 342 00:13:12,487 --> 00:13:14,184 and it's all the reasons why I never wanted to have a child 343 00:13:14,228 --> 00:13:17,144 and about how I had a child and all the ways 344 00:13:17,187 --> 00:13:19,494 that I was right and then I was wrong. 345 00:13:19,537 --> 00:13:21,235 And it's kind of an emotional turn. 346 00:13:21,278 --> 00:13:24,020 And there's a moment in it where I say, you know, 347 00:13:24,107 --> 00:13:25,717 "At my darkest moments, 348 00:13:25,805 --> 00:13:27,632 I thought, like, 'I get why dads leave.'" 349 00:13:27,719 --> 00:13:29,547 And there's a -- 350 00:13:29,634 --> 00:13:31,723 You know, comedians laugh at that. 351 00:13:31,767 --> 00:13:33,813 Humans don't. 352 00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:35,379 [Laughter] 353 00:13:35,466 --> 00:13:36,816 You know, it's more of a dramatic turn. 354 00:13:36,859 --> 00:13:38,861 An emotional moment in the show. 355 00:13:38,948 --> 00:13:42,343 But there were times early in the process of that joke 356 00:13:42,430 --> 00:13:44,040 where I really felt 357 00:13:44,171 --> 00:13:47,652 that the audience felt almost betrayed by the show, 358 00:13:47,739 --> 00:13:50,264 that I had led them down a comedic path 359 00:13:50,394 --> 00:13:51,961 and then all of a sudden I'm saying essentially 360 00:13:52,092 --> 00:13:53,745 my deepest, darkest, 361 00:13:53,876 --> 00:13:57,619 um, "Dark Night of the Soul" confession. 362 00:13:57,662 --> 00:14:00,100 And I even had a reviewer, a prominent reviewer, 363 00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:02,711 said, "He lost me when he said, 'I get why dads leave.'" 364 00:14:02,754 --> 00:14:04,539 -Oh. -Very prominent reviewer. 365 00:14:04,582 --> 00:14:06,497 See, I smiled when he said that. 366 00:14:06,584 --> 00:14:08,238 Yeah.Because I'm like, "That's cool, Mike." 367 00:14:08,325 --> 00:14:09,892 I'm proud of you for that. 368 00:14:09,979 --> 00:14:11,720 -Yeah. -I'm really proud of you, 369 00:14:11,807 --> 00:14:14,418 like, for losing them because you know how to get them. 370 00:14:14,462 --> 00:14:15,811 You know what I mean? 371 00:14:15,898 --> 00:14:18,205 I'm like, "Yeah, keep it coming, baby." 372 00:14:18,248 --> 00:14:19,859 There's enough to see, right? 373 00:14:19,946 --> 00:14:21,643 Like, you have to see what -- 374 00:14:21,686 --> 00:14:23,645 Sometimes you just don't care about the thing as much, 375 00:14:23,688 --> 00:14:25,212 and then you say it and you're like, "Why did I even say that? 376 00:14:25,299 --> 00:14:26,430 I don't even care that much about it." 377 00:14:26,517 --> 00:14:28,476 Like, I had the thing -- 378 00:14:28,563 --> 00:14:30,478 I think, like, after I had my baby, 379 00:14:30,565 --> 00:14:33,655 I was, like, trying to talk about the changes in my body, 380 00:14:33,742 --> 00:14:36,092 but I didn't want it to sound cliché 381 00:14:36,179 --> 00:14:38,181 like "after-the-baby body" material. 382 00:14:38,268 --> 00:14:40,357 But, also, there was, like, some stuff 383 00:14:40,444 --> 00:14:42,620 that really weirded me out about my own body, 384 00:14:42,707 --> 00:14:46,059 and, like, it was really hard to do the material 385 00:14:46,102 --> 00:14:47,974 because it was uncomfortable. 386 00:14:48,061 --> 00:14:51,847 And sometimes I would do it, it would hit the right spot, 387 00:14:51,934 --> 00:14:54,937 and sometimes it would just seem like I didn't like myself 388 00:14:55,024 --> 00:14:56,678 and I was, like, asking people to be like, 389 00:14:56,808 --> 00:14:58,941 "Yeah, you're ugly and your body sucks, as well!" 390 00:14:58,985 --> 00:15:01,683 It was like this terrible focus on -- 391 00:15:01,813 --> 00:15:03,815 And I was like -- And I couldn't figure it out. 392 00:15:03,903 --> 00:15:05,643 And eventually I gave up. 393 00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:09,212 And I really regret it now because there's, like, one joke 394 00:15:09,299 --> 00:15:12,389 that I liked that I, like -- But I was so afraid to, like -- 395 00:15:12,476 --> 00:15:14,304 I didn't want that feeling of, like, 396 00:15:14,391 --> 00:15:17,612 feeling like such a -- The word that comes up for me 397 00:15:17,699 --> 00:15:19,657 is, like, "abomination." 398 00:15:19,788 --> 00:15:23,835 "She made us eat shit with her," you know? 399 00:15:23,923 --> 00:15:26,229 Like, "We thought we were invited to a party with cake! 400 00:15:26,273 --> 00:15:28,666 And she shat and she made us eat her fucking shit!" 401 00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:31,321 It's like -- [Gasps] "Oh, my God. I did not. 402 00:15:31,452 --> 00:15:33,019 I just wanted to talk about how, like, 403 00:15:33,149 --> 00:15:35,064 my nipples used to be for sex, and now they're not. 404 00:15:35,151 --> 00:15:36,718 And, like, I don't know. It got ruined." 405 00:15:36,805 --> 00:15:39,721 And everything collapsed and, like -- 406 00:15:39,764 --> 00:15:42,550 I can't even go in that area anymore and, like -- 407 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,160 But it's really hard 408 00:15:44,204 --> 00:15:45,901 when you're like, "I'm interested in it, 409 00:15:45,945 --> 00:15:50,340 but it might just show actually where I'm, like, sick." 410 00:15:50,384 --> 00:15:53,561 Not that I am, but maybe. Right to camera. 411 00:15:53,648 --> 00:15:55,606 I'm, like, right down the barrel. "Maybe." 412 00:15:55,693 --> 00:15:57,782 I think that's why, like, comedians 413 00:15:57,869 --> 00:15:59,480 like spending time with other comedians 414 00:15:59,567 --> 00:16:01,264 because, like, you and Chris, your boyfriend, 415 00:16:01,351 --> 00:16:03,353 were on the road with me when I was developing that. 416 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,965 And it took comedian friends saying, like, 417 00:16:06,052 --> 00:16:08,054 "No, no. Go towards that."Yeah, yeah. 418 00:16:08,141 --> 00:16:11,318 Because audiences often won't tell you to go towards that. 419 00:16:11,405 --> 00:16:13,668 Audiences will be like, "Yeah, easy on that." 420 00:16:13,798 --> 00:16:15,539 But it's people who are your -- 421 00:16:15,626 --> 00:16:17,933 who are comedians who are usually most likely to be like, 422 00:16:18,020 --> 00:16:20,936 "No, no, say the thing that's, like, really deep in your subconscious." 423 00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:23,330 Then on the other end of figuring out the joke, 424 00:16:23,373 --> 00:16:25,114 the audience is so happy that you figured it out. 425 00:16:25,201 --> 00:16:26,898 But there's that middle of the -- 426 00:16:27,029 --> 00:16:29,292 growing out your hair where you're like -- 427 00:16:29,336 --> 00:16:31,425 Just that middle where it's just a little, like -- 428 00:16:31,555 --> 00:16:33,427 A little, and then it's like, "Oh, yeah, I like that." 429 00:16:33,557 --> 00:16:36,299 You know, there's that bit that I think is -- 430 00:16:36,386 --> 00:16:38,214 Comedians will tell you, "No, no, no. Keep going. 431 00:16:38,258 --> 00:16:40,434 You should do that." That's why it's so fun. 432 00:16:40,521 --> 00:16:43,045 Hearing comics discuss comedy so seriously 433 00:16:43,132 --> 00:16:44,873 is a little funny -- I can't lie. 434 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,267 [Chuckles] But it really is a science. 435 00:16:47,354 --> 00:16:50,922 We'll get back to this lesson in chemistry right after the break. 436 00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:51,923 I mean, I'm just saying. 437 00:16:52,011 --> 00:16:53,969 Setup, punchline, okay? 438 00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:55,797 But you got to make sure the punchline is funny, 439 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,974 because, if not, you're gonna get punched in the face. 440 00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,803 Afterwards. They will wait for you by your car... 441 00:17:01,890 --> 00:17:07,156 ♪♪ 442 00:17:09,854 --> 00:17:15,730 ♪ 443 00:17:15,772 --> 00:17:17,513 Welcome back. 444 00:17:17,645 --> 00:17:20,952 Now, usually, stand-up can be lighthearted as it should be, 445 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,954 but it can also go to some serious places. 446 00:17:23,041 --> 00:17:24,781 Let's hear our panel weigh in 447 00:17:24,868 --> 00:17:27,872 on how they handle delivering, hm, heavier material. 448 00:17:27,959 --> 00:17:30,136 Is there a clear third rail for each of you? 449 00:17:30,223 --> 00:17:33,574 I don't do jokes about people in my family 450 00:17:33,617 --> 00:17:35,445 or friends of mine 451 00:17:35,532 --> 00:17:37,969 or people I'm dating without running it past them 452 00:17:38,057 --> 00:17:39,710 because I just don't think it's worth 453 00:17:39,797 --> 00:17:42,104 destroying your relationships for 90 seconds. 454 00:17:42,191 --> 00:17:44,019 Have you always done that? 455 00:17:44,106 --> 00:17:46,978 Probably not. No, Not when I was 21. 456 00:17:47,022 --> 00:17:50,243 I'm like, "Burn it all down to be a legend!" 457 00:17:50,373 --> 00:17:52,462 But, yeah, then you get older and you're like, "Oh, I'm alone." 458 00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:53,855 -Uh-huh. -So, yeah. 459 00:17:53,942 --> 00:17:56,031 Lonely legend.Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 460 00:17:56,075 --> 00:17:57,815 I always have to be kind of dragging myself into it 461 00:17:57,946 --> 00:17:59,687 if I'm talking about somebody else. 462 00:17:59,730 --> 00:18:01,906 Like, it's never really about anyone other than myself. 463 00:18:01,993 --> 00:18:03,604 And I think that's kind of a solo act of it. 464 00:18:03,691 --> 00:18:06,650 So even pulling in, like, uh, you know -- 465 00:18:06,694 --> 00:18:08,957 You mention a celebrity. You mention this. 466 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,828 I don't like doing jokes atpeople. 467 00:18:10,915 --> 00:18:13,440 I'll mention them, but it's really kind of like, 468 00:18:13,527 --> 00:18:16,095 oh, because I'm also kind of jumping off the same cliff with you. 469 00:18:16,225 --> 00:18:17,748 Like, we're gonna do it together. 470 00:18:17,835 --> 00:18:21,926 And also everyone here is just as, you know -- 471 00:18:21,970 --> 00:18:23,798 is guilty of the same exact thing. 472 00:18:23,928 --> 00:18:25,321 And the whole thing is like -- 473 00:18:25,408 --> 00:18:27,889 how do you offer something about yourself 474 00:18:27,976 --> 00:18:31,284 that actually would make someone feel less afraid or less alone? 475 00:18:31,414 --> 00:18:35,897 But then it gets like, really messy on the way to do that. 476 00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:38,552 But I just -- I can't, like, point at someone else 477 00:18:38,639 --> 00:18:41,120 and say, like, "That's a mess." It's like, "No, no, like, I know that mess 478 00:18:41,207 --> 00:18:43,948 because it's literally the same one that I have 479 00:18:44,035 --> 00:18:45,515 or I have a version of and --" 480 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:47,430 And so, yeah, third rail would be, like, 481 00:18:47,517 --> 00:18:49,345 if I'm not -- I wouldn't even do it. 482 00:18:49,432 --> 00:18:50,738 -You wouldn't go there. -it wouldn't even be fun. 483 00:18:50,781 --> 00:18:52,522 Yeah, yeah. But topic -- 484 00:18:52,609 --> 00:18:54,655 There's not a single topic you can't talk about. 485 00:18:54,742 --> 00:18:56,918 Does anyone that you have spoken about, that you have joked about -- 486 00:18:56,961 --> 00:18:59,660 Do you hear from people after? positively or negatively. 487 00:18:59,703 --> 00:19:01,662 I try to obscure.Yeah. That's wise. 488 00:19:01,705 --> 00:19:05,274 I try to turn real people into archetypes for, like, you know, 489 00:19:05,361 --> 00:19:08,408 obvious reasons, and I also don't talk about people that I date. 490 00:19:08,495 --> 00:19:11,585 It bothers me that I talk so much about my family sometimes, 491 00:19:11,628 --> 00:19:14,805 only because I speak very lovingly about my family always. 492 00:19:14,892 --> 00:19:17,330 And so people still sometimes come up to my parents 493 00:19:17,417 --> 00:19:19,201 and they're like, "Oh, he really got you!" 494 00:19:19,288 --> 00:19:21,116 And I'm like, "What? By saying my dad is, like, 495 00:19:21,203 --> 00:19:23,553 really nice and smart and thoughtful? 496 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,077 And my mom is very cool and collected?" 497 00:19:26,165 --> 00:19:28,645 Like, I speak really well of my family. 498 00:19:28,732 --> 00:19:30,647 But in terms of, like, third-rail topics, 499 00:19:30,734 --> 00:19:33,563 like, it's tricky because all the power is in the third rail. 500 00:19:33,607 --> 00:19:35,086 -Totally. -There are all these things 501 00:19:35,174 --> 00:19:36,784 you can't talk about anymore. 502 00:19:36,871 --> 00:19:38,394 And I'm like, "It's actually kind of more exciting." 503 00:19:38,525 --> 00:19:41,571 There are more tensions, more interesting tensions -- 504 00:19:41,658 --> 00:19:43,182 Comedy's about the buildup and release of tension. 505 00:19:43,269 --> 00:19:45,140 You have free tension. Deal with the new ones 506 00:19:45,184 --> 00:19:47,403 and try to release them or find tension in a topic 507 00:19:47,447 --> 00:19:48,839 that no one thought there was tension. 508 00:19:48,926 --> 00:19:51,102 So third rails are a big part of it, 509 00:19:51,233 --> 00:19:53,453 but what Ramy's talking about is elegance. 510 00:19:53,540 --> 00:19:55,716 You want a degree of elegance. You want a degree of personalization. 511 00:19:55,846 --> 00:19:57,805 It's another thing I picked up from Birbigs 512 00:19:57,892 --> 00:19:59,763 when we started sort of chatting in earnest, 513 00:19:59,850 --> 00:20:01,678 was sometimes Mike would be like, 514 00:20:01,722 --> 00:20:03,376 "The joke's good, but it's not personal enough to you yet." 515 00:20:03,419 --> 00:20:05,639 Even if it's about something random. 516 00:20:05,726 --> 00:20:08,642 And so it's a really -- I don't know. I think about this topic a lot. 517 00:20:08,772 --> 00:20:12,254 October 7th happened, and I think you called your producer, 518 00:20:12,341 --> 00:20:15,126 one of your producers and said, "I don't know 519 00:20:15,170 --> 00:20:18,521 if we should -- maybe we cancel these shows." 520 00:20:18,608 --> 00:20:20,480 I think I heard you say, "Who can dance in the slaughterhouse?" 521 00:20:20,567 --> 00:20:22,917 You obviously didn't cancel the show, 522 00:20:23,004 --> 00:20:26,660 so I'm curious if it actually felt that way once you got back on stage. 523 00:20:26,747 --> 00:20:29,228 It was a complicated moment. It remains a complicated moment. 524 00:20:29,315 --> 00:20:30,838 It certainly does. 525 00:20:30,925 --> 00:20:32,448 Ramy was one of the first people to call me, 526 00:20:32,579 --> 00:20:37,932 and we had a really amazing, like, really fulsome, 527 00:20:38,062 --> 00:20:41,240 helpful-for-me conversation. 528 00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:44,634 And just really appreciated that. 529 00:20:44,721 --> 00:20:47,724 It was -- It was -- It was hard. 530 00:20:47,811 --> 00:20:49,465 And it's made me more mindful of the fact 531 00:20:49,552 --> 00:20:51,598 that it's still hard. After a while, 532 00:20:51,728 --> 00:20:53,730 you get inured to human suffering 533 00:20:53,817 --> 00:20:55,515 because that's the way the thing works. 534 00:20:55,602 --> 00:20:58,431 But, like, it's been -- Been constantly reminded not to, 535 00:20:58,518 --> 00:21:00,824 which has made it difficult. 536 00:21:00,868 --> 00:21:03,523 Yeah, getting on stage -- Again, another conversation 537 00:21:03,610 --> 00:21:05,481 I had with Mike after, like, what -- 538 00:21:05,568 --> 00:21:08,092 How to -- What do you do? Do you change the show? 539 00:21:08,136 --> 00:21:10,312 And I thought that the best thing 540 00:21:10,399 --> 00:21:12,488 to do was make the show conversant with the moment 541 00:21:12,575 --> 00:21:15,056 that we're living in but still an escape from it. 542 00:21:15,186 --> 00:21:19,495 I think the best comedy is conversant with the tensions that we live with, 543 00:21:19,582 --> 00:21:21,889 but it makes me sad. 544 00:21:21,976 --> 00:21:25,632 So, at some point, going on stage and talking about not that 545 00:21:25,762 --> 00:21:27,286 feels like a real problem.Uh-huh 546 00:21:27,416 --> 00:21:30,114 So I'm glad we didn't cancel the shows. 547 00:21:30,201 --> 00:21:32,334 I went -- Right before I went on stage in San Francisco 548 00:21:32,378 --> 00:21:34,858 for that first show after October 7th, 549 00:21:34,989 --> 00:21:36,512 I was standing in the back of the room 550 00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:40,124 and I just saw a thousand people on their phones 551 00:21:40,211 --> 00:21:43,084 watching a war, and I was like, "Okay. 552 00:21:43,171 --> 00:21:45,391 Maybe this is a better thing to do 553 00:21:45,478 --> 00:21:48,132 than not getting people away from a war for an hour." 554 00:21:48,263 --> 00:21:50,047 An hour and a half -- Like -- 555 00:21:50,178 --> 00:21:51,875 But I wrestled with it all the way through, 556 00:21:51,962 --> 00:21:53,747 whether or not this is right, whether or not this... 557 00:21:53,834 --> 00:21:56,097 I put some new lines in to, like, talk about this feeling, 558 00:21:56,184 --> 00:21:58,186 but it didn't change the whole show. 559 00:21:58,273 --> 00:22:00,319 But like, yeah, something I wrestled with all the way through. 560 00:22:00,406 --> 00:22:02,146 And, Ramy, I feel like you would go up -- 561 00:22:02,277 --> 00:22:05,149 You were on stage, you were on tour in those weeks after, 562 00:22:05,236 --> 00:22:07,456 and you would talk at the top of the show 563 00:22:07,587 --> 00:22:09,110 about this very thing, 564 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,068 of is this the right thing to be doing right now? 565 00:22:11,155 --> 00:22:14,550 I'm curious sort of what you learned about yourself 566 00:22:14,637 --> 00:22:17,379 and your audience in those experiences? 567 00:22:17,466 --> 00:22:20,904 Well, I think my audience has always been kind of open 568 00:22:20,991 --> 00:22:23,254 for these conversations, and it's kind of why, like, 569 00:22:23,342 --> 00:22:27,128 I don't think -- I've never felt stand-up is actually that risky, 570 00:22:27,215 --> 00:22:30,653 because I've kind of always been in conversation with an audience 571 00:22:30,697 --> 00:22:35,049 that has, like, a really global perspective as to tragedy, 572 00:22:35,136 --> 00:22:37,051 I think, and suffering. 573 00:22:37,138 --> 00:22:40,315 And so there is a way to kind of go at it 574 00:22:40,402 --> 00:22:43,013 that, you know, leads with connecting hearts, 575 00:22:43,057 --> 00:22:46,190 you know, because I think that the news is very much, like, 576 00:22:46,234 --> 00:22:49,890 talking heads and people just like -- It's literally mental. 577 00:22:49,933 --> 00:22:52,893 And what we get to do gets to be emotional. 578 00:22:53,023 --> 00:22:54,590 And so it's really liberating 579 00:22:54,677 --> 00:22:57,158 because we're not -- We don't need to kind of -- 580 00:22:57,201 --> 00:22:58,768 I don't know. Anytime anything gets too factual 581 00:22:58,812 --> 00:23:01,641 or anything gets too, even, historical, 582 00:23:01,728 --> 00:23:05,209 um, overtly, it feels very like -- I'm just like, 583 00:23:05,253 --> 00:23:07,124 "This stopped being comedy."Right. 584 00:23:07,211 --> 00:23:10,301 And so I kind of try to, you know, 585 00:23:10,389 --> 00:23:13,522 center the emotional piece and -- and -- 586 00:23:13,609 --> 00:23:15,306 Yeah, so for me, like, it's interesting 587 00:23:15,394 --> 00:23:17,134 because my special is much different 588 00:23:17,221 --> 00:23:18,745 than what I thought it was gonna be. 589 00:23:18,832 --> 00:23:20,834 You know, even the special that I just put out, 590 00:23:20,921 --> 00:23:25,229 I probably left like 30, maybe even 40 minutes 591 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,623 of other material on the table because I kind of felt like, 592 00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:29,190 "Oh, there's actually something..." 593 00:23:29,277 --> 00:23:31,279 Back to what we were talking about before. 594 00:23:31,366 --> 00:23:33,586 If I'm actually present with the moment and with the audience, 595 00:23:33,629 --> 00:23:35,370 there's something totally different 596 00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:37,241 that they should be hearing that they want to hear. 597 00:23:37,328 --> 00:23:40,680 Alex -- I went and saw his show, and he has a diverse audience, 598 00:23:40,767 --> 00:23:43,117 but also a really Jewish audience, which was really cool. 599 00:23:43,204 --> 00:23:44,684 -What?! -Yeah. Yeah. 600 00:23:44,771 --> 00:23:46,729 And, like, you know, it's, like, really cool. 601 00:23:46,816 --> 00:23:49,166 And that was also really fun, too, for me because I do think, 602 00:23:49,297 --> 00:23:50,907 like, there would be a bunch of Orthodox Jews 603 00:23:50,994 --> 00:23:52,996 who were like, "Yo, dude, I've seen you. 604 00:23:53,083 --> 00:23:55,346 I've seen your show." 605 00:23:55,434 --> 00:23:57,958 Because we pray a lot on my show. 606 00:23:58,001 --> 00:24:01,004 Orthodox Jews like praying. 607 00:24:01,091 --> 00:24:03,267 Three times a day. We're obsessed. 608 00:24:03,354 --> 00:24:05,008 "We do a version of that." 609 00:24:05,095 --> 00:24:07,010 But then, you know, same thing with my audience. 610 00:24:07,097 --> 00:24:09,578 Obviously there's a lot of people who come out who are Muslim. 611 00:24:09,709 --> 00:24:12,973 And so I've always kind of felt that there is a space 612 00:24:13,016 --> 00:24:15,628 to have where you're talking to people 613 00:24:15,758 --> 00:24:17,194 who need to hear a specific thing 614 00:24:17,281 --> 00:24:18,761 they can't hear somewhere else 615 00:24:18,848 --> 00:24:20,589 and also challenging them to hear something 616 00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:22,722 that they probably might not want to hear... 617 00:24:22,809 --> 00:24:24,550 and getting to play with that. 618 00:24:24,637 --> 00:24:27,683 And I think that is kind of what's fun about it. 619 00:24:27,814 --> 00:24:30,120 It's, like, the very little thing that we could do. 620 00:24:30,251 --> 00:24:33,602 I constantly contend with how important that piece is. 621 00:24:33,689 --> 00:24:36,213 And I also think, like, a lot of the language around that 622 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:38,912 can feel a little -- a little hard for me to stomach 623 00:24:38,999 --> 00:24:41,697 when there's people who are -- who really, 624 00:24:41,784 --> 00:24:43,090 you know, put themselves on the line 625 00:24:43,177 --> 00:24:45,005 to kind of try and help the world. 626 00:24:45,092 --> 00:24:46,920 Because I'm always going for the joke. 627 00:24:47,007 --> 00:24:49,923 So it's my space -- The space I want to have in the conversation 628 00:24:50,010 --> 00:24:51,315 is really, really small. 629 00:24:51,446 --> 00:24:53,187 -Small? -It's really small. 630 00:24:53,274 --> 00:24:55,450 I want to be like -- I want to be like the doorman, 631 00:24:55,494 --> 00:24:57,583 like, letting people into a room 632 00:24:57,670 --> 00:25:00,063 where there are actual interesting things happening. 633 00:25:00,150 --> 00:25:03,153 Like, I am the valet. Like, there is nothing -- 634 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,504 This is not, like, about this philosophy thing. 635 00:25:05,634 --> 00:25:08,811 Like, this is truly just a little bit of 636 00:25:08,855 --> 00:25:10,726 the -- with the grease 637 00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:12,728 that makes the door not sound so squeaky 638 00:25:12,815 --> 00:25:15,470 so that, like, the people can kind of walk into a room 639 00:25:15,557 --> 00:25:17,428 and actually process real things. 640 00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:21,171 And so I'm really aware of, you know, kind of, of that. 641 00:25:21,258 --> 00:25:23,783 So, guys, we've learned that comedy 642 00:25:23,870 --> 00:25:26,960 can either be therapeutic or the reason you go to therapy... 643 00:25:27,090 --> 00:25:28,744 or start a habit. 644 00:25:28,788 --> 00:25:31,399 More of this free session after the break. 645 00:25:31,486 --> 00:25:38,711 ♪♪ 646 00:25:41,583 --> 00:25:47,458 ♪ 647 00:25:47,502 --> 00:25:49,460 One might think that the goal for a comic 648 00:25:49,548 --> 00:25:51,201 is to just make people laugh, 649 00:25:51,288 --> 00:25:53,682 but actually the goal can change from night to night. 650 00:25:53,769 --> 00:25:56,598 Mm-hmm. Let's have our panel explain. 651 00:25:56,642 --> 00:25:58,644 Stand-up comedy is one of the rare art forms 652 00:25:58,731 --> 00:26:01,821 where it's one person speaking to a group of people. 653 00:26:01,908 --> 00:26:04,867 There's no studio, there's no network, there's no filter. 654 00:26:04,998 --> 00:26:08,001 So you do have a sense when you're watching somebody speak 655 00:26:08,131 --> 00:26:10,612 that that's roughly what they're thinking about. 656 00:26:10,699 --> 00:26:12,658 And it's so raw. 657 00:26:12,788 --> 00:26:15,399 And it's the reason why I love watching comics. 658 00:26:15,486 --> 00:26:17,837 I just love comedy because it doesn't 659 00:26:17,924 --> 00:26:19,490 feel like it's processed. 660 00:26:19,578 --> 00:26:21,014 There's a lot of conversations 661 00:26:21,101 --> 00:26:22,842 around sort of truth in this moment. 662 00:26:22,972 --> 00:26:24,800 But I'm curious, like, do you worry about sort of 663 00:26:24,844 --> 00:26:27,716 your comedy being fact-checked in this moment, 664 00:26:27,803 --> 00:26:29,588 which is this ridiculous thing to say? 665 00:26:29,675 --> 00:26:32,112 And, yet, I think that's sort of where we are. 666 00:26:32,155 --> 00:26:35,115 After the Hasan article came out in The New Yorker, 667 00:26:35,202 --> 00:26:37,334 I got a lot of text messages that said, 668 00:26:37,421 --> 00:26:41,338 "I hope you jump through that second-story window," 669 00:26:41,382 --> 00:26:43,558 referencing a show I did many years ago 670 00:26:43,689 --> 00:26:45,691 where I jumped through a second-story window. 671 00:26:45,778 --> 00:26:47,780 I heard it was a first-story window. 672 00:26:47,867 --> 00:26:49,303 [Laughter] 673 00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:50,957 Yeah, that was definitely, like, something 674 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,350 people wanted to talk to me about. 675 00:26:53,481 --> 00:26:55,657 I don't know about you guys, but they wanted to talk to me about that a lot. 676 00:26:55,744 --> 00:26:58,442 And I take it -- You know, I love Hasan, 677 00:26:58,486 --> 00:27:03,186 and I think the intent of that writer remains very nebulous 678 00:27:03,273 --> 00:27:05,711 and why they would write that. It's very confusing to me. 679 00:27:05,798 --> 00:27:09,236 Yeah. It's not a thing to fact-check. Like, this isn't... 680 00:27:09,366 --> 00:27:11,151 [Indistinct conversations] 681 00:27:11,238 --> 00:27:12,892 I don't want to break anyone's heart. 682 00:27:12,979 --> 00:27:16,635 Nobody ever fact-checked "Swimming to Cambodia." 683 00:27:16,722 --> 00:27:18,419 It's not something people do. 684 00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:23,293 I think you have a sense of what level of truth 685 00:27:23,380 --> 00:27:26,949 the person is telling, and you take a guess. 686 00:27:26,993 --> 00:27:28,821 And sometimes you're right, and sometimes you're wrong. 687 00:27:28,864 --> 00:27:31,737 It's also really, like, interesting in terms of, 688 00:27:31,824 --> 00:27:33,652 like, what you need to say 689 00:27:33,739 --> 00:27:35,349 as, like, what's true to you 690 00:27:35,436 --> 00:27:37,481 that, like, you really want people to know. 691 00:27:37,568 --> 00:27:40,310 And I thought a lot about this when that article came out 692 00:27:40,397 --> 00:27:43,923 because I was like, "Everything in my special is true, 693 00:27:43,966 --> 00:27:49,102 but a lot of it also is about my perception."Of course! 694 00:27:49,189 --> 00:27:51,060 I didn't, like, hear what the people 695 00:27:51,104 --> 00:27:53,497 who decided to, you know, send me an audition 696 00:27:53,628 --> 00:27:56,675 to be Pennywise actually thought when they sent that to me. 697 00:27:56,762 --> 00:27:58,894 You'd have been so good. 698 00:27:58,981 --> 00:28:01,331 I know. It's such a bummer that I didn't go in on that. 699 00:28:01,418 --> 00:28:04,378 But like -- It's like I'm trying to show 700 00:28:04,465 --> 00:28:07,163 how I felt rather than saying, like -- 701 00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:09,470 I mean, I guess I did end up screaming like, 702 00:28:09,557 --> 00:28:11,646 "That really hurt my feelings," because that is also something 703 00:28:11,777 --> 00:28:14,083 that I wanted to say, but I wanted to show, 704 00:28:14,170 --> 00:28:17,652 like, how confounded I was, but also humiliated. 705 00:28:17,783 --> 00:28:20,437 And so, like, I acted it out and, like, yeah, 706 00:28:20,524 --> 00:28:23,702 I'm not accusing people of actually doing that or whatever, 707 00:28:23,832 --> 00:28:25,878 but I just started thinking for me, 708 00:28:25,965 --> 00:28:30,143 like, it would be weird if that was how my act was -- 709 00:28:30,186 --> 00:28:33,973 or my performance or whatever was assessed or something, 710 00:28:34,060 --> 00:28:37,541 because it's so much about, like, the psyche 711 00:28:37,585 --> 00:28:40,675 about, like, how you are in the world and how it feels and -- 712 00:28:40,806 --> 00:28:43,199 And the artistry.Yeah. 713 00:28:43,286 --> 00:28:45,158 And it's like -- I'm trying to show not just -- 714 00:28:45,245 --> 00:28:46,855 I'm not just trying to make an impression, 715 00:28:46,942 --> 00:28:48,509 but I'm trying to show what it feels like 716 00:28:48,596 --> 00:28:50,380 to have an impression made on me. 717 00:28:50,467 --> 00:28:52,818 I don't know.It's all about the how, though. 718 00:28:52,861 --> 00:28:55,690 And I have to say this because we're in this comedy thing because it's like -- 719 00:28:55,777 --> 00:28:58,084 And I told you this, but the first-ever 720 00:28:58,171 --> 00:29:02,784 one-person show I saw was Jenny's at UCB. 721 00:29:02,871 --> 00:29:04,786 -Wait. Which one? -The one 722 00:29:04,873 --> 00:29:07,049 where you were playing The Heiress, yeah. 723 00:29:07,136 --> 00:29:10,313 And it was like -- It literally made me go, "I want to do that." 724 00:29:10,444 --> 00:29:12,751 Aww!I think I was 17 or 18 or something. 725 00:29:12,838 --> 00:29:15,841 I remember just like -- Maybe it was my first year of college, 726 00:29:15,928 --> 00:29:19,496 and I remember seeing it and I just loved how you did it, 727 00:29:19,540 --> 00:29:21,672 and it was just all about that raw energy. 728 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,066 And I think that's all that this is, so to fact-check it 729 00:29:24,110 --> 00:29:25,589 is so weird because it's like -- 730 00:29:25,676 --> 00:29:27,548 I think it speaks to a larger -- 731 00:29:27,635 --> 00:29:30,812 We have an integrity problem. Like, we have a spiritual void. 732 00:29:30,899 --> 00:29:33,119 Like, as a society. 733 00:29:33,206 --> 00:29:34,816 Because the common person, 734 00:29:34,947 --> 00:29:36,470 a politician talks, and they don't even -- 735 00:29:36,557 --> 00:29:38,124 They're like, "Yeah, he's probably lying. 736 00:29:38,211 --> 00:29:40,561 But this comedian?" You know, so I don't care. 737 00:29:40,648 --> 00:29:42,345 I don't care where Mike jumped from. 738 00:29:42,432 --> 00:29:44,086 I don't care if Alex actually went to a meeting. 739 00:29:44,173 --> 00:29:46,567 Like, it doesn't matter because it's all about, like, 740 00:29:46,697 --> 00:29:48,395 what the approach is 741 00:29:48,438 --> 00:29:50,876 and the how and the why you're approaching it that way. 742 00:29:50,919 --> 00:29:54,705 And I think that it speaks to a massive integrity void 743 00:29:54,793 --> 00:29:56,838 that we look at entertainers the way that we do, 744 00:29:56,882 --> 00:29:58,579 that we look at stand-up the way that we do. 745 00:29:58,709 --> 00:30:00,799 Because it really is -- At the end of the day, 746 00:30:00,929 --> 00:30:02,801 there's nothing funnier than a fart joke, 747 00:30:02,888 --> 00:30:04,977 and it remains to be, and that should tell you something 748 00:30:05,064 --> 00:30:06,892 about this whole art form.Slate: I agree. 749 00:30:06,979 --> 00:30:08,850 I agree. There's nothing funnier than a fart joke. 750 00:30:08,937 --> 00:30:10,852 It's proven. 751 00:30:10,939 --> 00:30:12,506 ...falling on their head. 752 00:30:12,593 --> 00:30:14,160 You mentioned the Pennywise thing, 753 00:30:14,247 --> 00:30:15,901 and I'm curious, sort of, this idea of, like, 754 00:30:15,988 --> 00:30:18,860 Does Hollywood know what to do with all of you? 755 00:30:18,904 --> 00:30:20,644 And some of you have written your own stuff. 756 00:30:20,731 --> 00:30:22,995 [Laughter]You're laughingat this. 757 00:30:23,038 --> 00:30:25,171 "What to do with all of you?" 758 00:30:25,301 --> 00:30:27,390 I think a hardcore "no" over here. 759 00:30:27,477 --> 00:30:28,652 [Laughter] 760 00:30:28,783 --> 00:30:30,567 But would we want it any other way? 761 00:30:30,698 --> 00:30:32,395 [Laughter] 762 00:30:32,482 --> 00:30:34,745 I don't think Hollywood knows what to do right now. 763 00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:36,443 Fair....inflection point. 764 00:30:36,573 --> 00:30:39,707 And I think everyone here has been really clear 765 00:30:39,794 --> 00:30:42,579 as to what they want to do, how they put it together. 766 00:30:42,666 --> 00:30:44,059 And I don't think that anyone here 767 00:30:44,146 --> 00:30:46,018 needs to be confined to any sort of box. 768 00:30:46,105 --> 00:30:48,716 I don't think there are types. There are barely even channels. 769 00:30:48,803 --> 00:30:51,066 Like, everything is open for grabs. 770 00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:53,460 So that -- "Does Hollywood know what --" 771 00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:55,984 That's a whole other -- And no one's at fault. 772 00:30:56,071 --> 00:30:57,594 Like, that's actually just a reflection 773 00:30:57,681 --> 00:30:59,945 of the entire landscape of media 774 00:31:00,075 --> 00:31:02,251 and how things are made is just radically shifting. 775 00:31:02,295 --> 00:31:03,949 Fact-checking comedians makes as much sense 776 00:31:04,036 --> 00:31:05,515 as boneless chicken wings. 777 00:31:05,602 --> 00:31:08,257 I mean, it's supposed to have bones, y'all. 778 00:31:08,344 --> 00:31:09,389 It's a chicken. 779 00:31:09,476 --> 00:31:17,136 ♪♪ 780 00:31:19,965 --> 00:31:25,622 ♪ 781 00:31:25,666 --> 00:31:28,451 Welcome back to "Off Script with The Hollywood Reporter." 782 00:31:28,538 --> 00:31:31,367 Let's pick things back up with our stand-up roundtable. 783 00:31:31,454 --> 00:31:35,371 Mike, you at, like, 30 got a CBS sitcom pilot, right? 784 00:31:35,458 --> 00:31:38,070 Which was the thing you thought you wanted. 785 00:31:38,113 --> 00:31:39,375 This is like --This is great. 786 00:31:39,419 --> 00:31:41,290 This is like "Jerry Maguire." 787 00:31:41,377 --> 00:31:42,944 But it wasn't the thing you wanted. 788 00:31:42,988 --> 00:31:44,990 You ultimately --Yeah, no, it was -- 789 00:31:45,077 --> 00:31:46,817 [Stammering] So... 790 00:31:46,905 --> 00:31:49,385 The look on your face suggests that there's more here. Go. 791 00:31:49,472 --> 00:31:51,213 Like, in my 20's, I just thought 792 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:53,868 that I wanted to be a star somehow. 793 00:31:53,999 --> 00:31:56,697 Yeah, just, like, "I want to be a comedy star!" 794 00:31:56,740 --> 00:31:59,004 You know? I don't even -- 795 00:31:59,091 --> 00:32:00,483 I don't even think in hindsight I knew what that meant. 796 00:32:00,570 --> 00:32:02,137 And then when I was 30, 797 00:32:02,268 --> 00:32:06,402 I was given my own sitcom at CBS, 798 00:32:06,446 --> 00:32:08,752 and they shot the pilot, and Bob Odenkirk played my brother, 799 00:32:08,796 --> 00:32:12,365 and, you know, Nick Kroll played my cousin and all this stuff. 800 00:32:12,452 --> 00:32:14,149 And it was like, "Oh, my God. I can't believe it." 801 00:32:14,236 --> 00:32:18,066 And then by the time it went through the factory 802 00:32:18,110 --> 00:32:20,416 that is studios and networks and all that kind of thing, 803 00:32:20,503 --> 00:32:22,201 it just wasn't really my life. 804 00:32:22,288 --> 00:32:24,116 It wasn't my creative vision. 805 00:32:24,159 --> 00:32:26,074 And it didn't get picked up to air. 806 00:32:26,161 --> 00:32:27,946 And thank God. I went back to New York. 807 00:32:28,033 --> 00:32:30,296 I mounted "Sleepwalk with Me." 808 00:32:30,339 --> 00:32:33,690 Nathan Lane put his name behind it, um, and his reputation. 809 00:32:33,777 --> 00:32:35,823 It was "Nathan Lane presents Mike Birbiglia's 'Sleepwalk with Me.'" 810 00:32:35,954 --> 00:32:37,738 And it changed my life and career. 811 00:32:37,781 --> 00:32:39,522 And I haven't looked back. I just make my own things now. 812 00:32:39,566 --> 00:32:41,872 Although, then you did that for us, too, as well. 813 00:32:41,916 --> 00:32:43,570 That's like, my favorite kind of thing, 814 00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:45,746 is when comedians can have their own authentic voice. 815 00:32:45,789 --> 00:32:47,139 What's the brass ring? 816 00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:50,881 I feel like my generation grew up, and... 817 00:32:50,925 --> 00:32:53,928 thinking "SNL" was thething. 818 00:32:53,972 --> 00:32:56,191 Did you want to do it? Because I saw -- You work like -- 819 00:32:56,322 --> 00:32:58,889 When I think of you, you were like, always -- 820 00:32:58,933 --> 00:33:01,022 You were always doing it. That's why I was telling you 821 00:33:01,109 --> 00:33:02,241 it's so cool that you got this show. 822 00:33:02,328 --> 00:33:03,677 That's nice. Thank you, Ramy. 823 00:33:03,807 --> 00:33:05,722 Um, no, I never wanted a late-night show. 824 00:33:05,766 --> 00:33:08,377 Like, I only ever wanted to tour theaters. 825 00:33:08,464 --> 00:33:10,336 Like, that's all I ever wanted to do, 826 00:33:10,379 --> 00:33:13,730 is just tour theaters off of my stand up like Brian Regan. 827 00:33:13,817 --> 00:33:16,124 And the reason I took "After Midnight" is 828 00:33:16,168 --> 00:33:18,866 because they're like, "We film Monday through Wednesday, 829 00:33:18,909 --> 00:33:20,955 so you could tour on the weekends." 830 00:33:21,042 --> 00:33:23,914 And then everyone who's involved is just incredible. 831 00:33:24,045 --> 00:33:25,960 And I wanted to work with all of them. 832 00:33:26,004 --> 00:33:29,181 And, you know, once you're on tour by yourself, 833 00:33:29,311 --> 00:33:30,921 you don't see other comedians that much. 834 00:33:31,009 --> 00:33:33,054 So I was like, "Oh, you can just play around with 835 00:33:33,185 --> 00:33:36,797 other comedians on TV for half the week? That sounds great." 836 00:33:36,884 --> 00:33:38,581 But, yeah, no, it was never a goal of mine 837 00:33:38,668 --> 00:33:41,019 to do a traditional talk show or anything like that. 838 00:33:41,062 --> 00:33:44,152 You know, it was an hour special on HBO 839 00:33:44,283 --> 00:33:46,111 like Chris Rock.Uh-huh. 840 00:33:46,198 --> 00:33:49,592 I mean, that was it. That was center of the vision board. 841 00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:51,986 That was the -- To me, that was the height of the form. 842 00:33:52,073 --> 00:33:54,902 And I know there's now more specials than there used to be. 843 00:33:55,033 --> 00:33:56,904 And, you know, that's a whole thing, right? 844 00:33:56,991 --> 00:33:58,514 But it was marching around 845 00:33:58,601 --> 00:34:01,996 on a big stage with confidence, I guess. 846 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,085 So you've achieved the -- 847 00:34:04,172 --> 00:34:05,739 Yeah, that was really it. 848 00:34:05,826 --> 00:34:09,960 And, um, you know, I do feel some bit of, like -- 849 00:34:10,047 --> 00:34:12,224 Not that it's a constant question of, 850 00:34:12,353 --> 00:34:14,052 "Okay, if I died tomorrow," kind of thing, 851 00:34:14,139 --> 00:34:17,838 but I'd feel a lot better dying tomorrow 852 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,362 than I would have felt dying tomorrow five years ago. 853 00:34:21,449 --> 00:34:24,975 In a different era, you might have been watered down 854 00:34:25,106 --> 00:34:27,761 to like a -- your comedy might have been watered down 855 00:34:27,891 --> 00:34:29,415 to a different type of comedy. 856 00:34:29,502 --> 00:34:31,460 So, like, when people see "Get on Your Knees," 857 00:34:31,591 --> 00:34:34,681 they really see your brain, like, out on the table. 858 00:34:34,811 --> 00:34:38,032 You know what I mean? And it's like -- That's so beautiful. 859 00:34:38,076 --> 00:34:41,208 And it's -- I think partly because of the moment 860 00:34:41,253 --> 00:34:43,994 that we're in where people have -- 861 00:34:44,081 --> 00:34:47,172 Because comedy's so ubiquitous, people have become connoisseurs. 862 00:34:47,259 --> 00:34:49,609 So people found Jacqueline's comedy, 863 00:34:49,696 --> 00:34:53,351 and it's become like when you ran the show at Cherry Lane in New York. 864 00:34:53,438 --> 00:34:55,353 It was a phenomenon, you know? 865 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,008 When Alex ran his show in New York, it was a phenomenon. 866 00:34:58,096 --> 00:34:59,445 It was like -- "if you didn't see it, 867 00:34:59,488 --> 00:35:02,056 you're not in the know" kind of thing. 868 00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:05,233 And that wasn't -- But that wasn't of the era -- 869 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,583 When I was a door person in the 1990s, 870 00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:09,759 when I was in college at a Washington, D.C., improv, 871 00:35:09,846 --> 00:35:11,544 there wasn't that. 872 00:35:11,587 --> 00:35:13,850 People weren't comedy connoisseurs in that way, 873 00:35:13,937 --> 00:35:15,417 where they were seeking out like, 874 00:35:15,504 --> 00:35:17,376 "Oh, what's different from the people 875 00:35:17,463 --> 00:35:19,769 who are here for the next six weeks?" 876 00:35:19,856 --> 00:35:21,510 It's so funny, though, because I was reading an interview 877 00:35:21,554 --> 00:35:25,035 that Ramy did a couple of weeks ago, months ago, 878 00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:29,605 and someone asked him a question that I get asked a lot also, 879 00:35:29,692 --> 00:35:32,042 which is sort of about the cultural specificity 880 00:35:32,086 --> 00:35:35,089 that they suppose your thing has, right? 881 00:35:35,176 --> 00:35:37,526 I assume they're asking in a euphemistic way 882 00:35:37,613 --> 00:35:39,267 about you being a Muslim. 883 00:35:39,398 --> 00:35:40,703 And in the same way, they're asking me euphemistically 884 00:35:40,747 --> 00:35:42,270 about me being a Jew. 885 00:35:42,357 --> 00:35:44,533 And you said that people come up to you and go, 886 00:35:44,620 --> 00:35:46,361 "Oh, I understand, because that's my family. My family is Jamaican." 887 00:35:46,448 --> 00:35:48,450 Or they come to me because that's my identity 888 00:35:48,494 --> 00:35:51,845 and my desire to do XYZ, but I'm, you know, from anywhere else. 889 00:35:51,932 --> 00:35:53,847 And the first thing I thought when I read that was, 890 00:35:53,934 --> 00:35:55,631 "That's Norman Lear." 891 00:35:55,762 --> 00:35:59,113 Norman Lear always said, "I'm just another version of you." 892 00:35:59,157 --> 00:36:01,289 The specific being universal. 893 00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:05,206 Like, I do think that people are looking for specificity 894 00:36:05,293 --> 00:36:07,687 now in this, like, very scattered media landscape 895 00:36:07,774 --> 00:36:09,732 and, like, the individual in a way 896 00:36:09,819 --> 00:36:12,039 that they used to maybe get from television shows. 897 00:36:12,126 --> 00:36:14,302 And so, like, there's something very old-school 898 00:36:14,389 --> 00:36:17,523 about the aesthetic, even as the content vessel for it is really different. 899 00:36:17,610 --> 00:36:19,351 Don't go anywhere. 900 00:36:19,438 --> 00:36:21,091 More of our stand-up comedy roundtable 901 00:36:21,135 --> 00:36:22,441 coming right up. 902 00:36:22,528 --> 00:36:27,881 ♪♪ 903 00:36:30,623 --> 00:36:36,281 ♪ 904 00:36:36,455 --> 00:36:39,284 Welcome back to "Off Script with The Hollywood Reporter." 905 00:36:39,371 --> 00:36:40,937 Right back to you, Lacey. 906 00:36:41,068 --> 00:36:42,287 We're gonna end on a lightning round. 907 00:36:42,374 --> 00:36:44,637 Number-one thing on your bucket list. 908 00:36:44,724 --> 00:36:47,030 This isn't an answer, but it was cool to see you on "SNL." 909 00:36:47,161 --> 00:36:49,642 -Aww! -You were so good. 910 00:36:49,729 --> 00:36:51,426 -Thank you. -So good. 911 00:36:51,513 --> 00:36:53,341 It was really -- It was really amazing. 912 00:36:53,428 --> 00:36:54,864 So that's Taylor's bucket list. 913 00:36:54,951 --> 00:36:57,606 [Laughter] 914 00:36:57,693 --> 00:37:00,174 That was mine. And I can die now. 915 00:37:00,261 --> 00:37:01,915 -I can die tomorrow now. -See? 916 00:37:01,958 --> 00:37:04,961 To see Jenny at the Comedy Cellar. 917 00:37:05,092 --> 00:37:06,528 Oh, my gosh. 918 00:37:06,615 --> 00:37:08,748 Was that a bucket list for you? "SNL"? 919 00:37:08,878 --> 00:37:10,228 Yeah. Yeah. That was -- 920 00:37:10,271 --> 00:37:12,099 It'd be crazy if you were like, "Nah." 921 00:37:12,142 --> 00:37:14,232 No, I mean, it was -- And it -- 922 00:37:14,362 --> 00:37:16,886 And I've been so fortunate, and I think everyone here has -- 923 00:37:16,973 --> 00:37:18,584 We've all checked a lot of bucket lists. 924 00:37:18,627 --> 00:37:20,890 Even by getting to talk to you, like, it's -- 925 00:37:20,934 --> 00:37:23,502 You kind of have to check bucket-list stuff to get here. 926 00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:25,330 Sure. But "SNL"... 927 00:37:25,417 --> 00:37:26,679 It's really -- It's crazy. 928 00:37:26,766 --> 00:37:28,768 -That, for me -- -It's crazy. 929 00:37:28,898 --> 00:37:30,509 When she asked that, that was one of the first things I thought. 930 00:37:30,596 --> 00:37:33,555 I don't think that's my answer, but hosting "SNL" -- 931 00:37:33,642 --> 00:37:36,602 I think all of us are fans to some extent. 932 00:37:36,689 --> 00:37:39,126 Everyone pretends a little bit to different degrees, 933 00:37:39,213 --> 00:37:40,606 but we're all fans of comedy. 934 00:37:40,736 --> 00:37:43,086 We're all like -- I rarely meet comedians 935 00:37:43,173 --> 00:37:45,088 who I truly believe they're not fans. 936 00:37:45,132 --> 00:37:46,699 So, like, it's a thing that -- 937 00:37:46,786 --> 00:37:48,701 I almost was like, "What's being on 'SNL' like"? 938 00:37:48,831 --> 00:37:51,617 I think that probably was my, like, bucket list. 939 00:37:51,747 --> 00:37:54,881 It's weird to, like, get the bucket list and then be like, 940 00:37:55,011 --> 00:37:57,405 "Oh, I guess I'm not sure 941 00:37:57,492 --> 00:38:00,190 that it was what I wanted or, you know, 942 00:38:00,278 --> 00:38:02,105 it just -- it wasn't the thing." 943 00:38:02,192 --> 00:38:04,325 But, like, if I hadn't been on it, 944 00:38:04,456 --> 00:38:06,719 I would be trying to be on it still. 945 00:38:06,806 --> 00:38:10,244 And when I watch it, I still feel, like, magical about it. 946 00:38:10,375 --> 00:38:11,767 What's something you guys used to joke about 947 00:38:11,854 --> 00:38:13,856 that you look back on now and cringe? 948 00:38:13,900 --> 00:38:15,902 People's weight. It's not really a taboo yet, 949 00:38:15,989 --> 00:38:17,469 and no one's ever called me on it. 950 00:38:17,556 --> 00:38:19,297 And it was never, like, "That guy's fat!" 951 00:38:19,384 --> 00:38:21,603 But I would make jokes, like, obliquely. 952 00:38:21,647 --> 00:38:24,867 There are plenty of things that I wouldn't say now, 953 00:38:24,954 --> 00:38:26,608 not for the reason of, like, cancellation, 954 00:38:26,695 --> 00:38:29,002 but because my standards are higher than they used to be. 955 00:38:29,045 --> 00:38:31,483 I've made some jokes that I would just, like -- 956 00:38:31,570 --> 00:38:33,920 I'm embarrassed by a lot of my early stuff. 957 00:38:34,007 --> 00:38:36,488 It was like -- I was not good. 958 00:38:36,575 --> 00:38:39,186 When I look back on things I did early in my career, 959 00:38:39,273 --> 00:38:42,058 it's not that I'm embarrassed of the word choice 960 00:38:42,102 --> 00:38:43,886 or something that's out of date and time. 961 00:38:43,973 --> 00:38:48,326 It's, like, that I wasn't opening up to the audience 962 00:38:48,413 --> 00:38:51,764 and being honest about how I actually felt. 963 00:38:51,851 --> 00:38:56,246 I was attempting to project a persona 964 00:38:56,334 --> 00:38:59,946 that I thought people would like, and it's embarrassing. 965 00:39:00,076 --> 00:39:03,819 And I think that what's helpful to look back on that for 966 00:39:03,906 --> 00:39:05,821 is to go, "Okay, but now I can. 967 00:39:05,908 --> 00:39:08,563 Now I can walk out on stage and say exactly how I feel." 968 00:39:08,650 --> 00:39:11,218 Like, the best compliment I ever get is, like -- 969 00:39:11,305 --> 00:39:12,915 Recently, I've been touring this new show, 970 00:39:12,959 --> 00:39:15,353 and people are like, "That's what you're like!" 971 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,180 And I'm like, "Fuck yeah." 972 00:39:17,267 --> 00:39:19,574 I don't know. It's not done yet. 973 00:39:19,661 --> 00:39:21,228 It'll be another year in the oven. 974 00:39:21,315 --> 00:39:22,925 But, like, that's what I'm going towards. 975 00:39:23,012 --> 00:39:24,405 Yeah. I'm not even Jewish. 976 00:39:24,492 --> 00:39:26,755 So it's really hard to get away from that. 977 00:39:26,842 --> 00:39:28,888 Alright. We're gonna end on something that's gonna feel silly, 978 00:39:29,018 --> 00:39:30,759 but I feel like it is actually revealing. 979 00:39:30,803 --> 00:39:32,935 What's the most used emoji on your phone? 980 00:39:33,022 --> 00:39:34,284 I have the hands clapping. 981 00:39:34,372 --> 00:39:36,025 -There you go. -Hands clapping. 982 00:39:36,112 --> 00:39:37,375 -Yeah. -Eyes being wide open. 983 00:39:37,462 --> 00:39:38,985 -Yeah. -Oh, the side eye? 984 00:39:39,072 --> 00:39:41,161 -Just wide open eyes. -Yeah. The big ones? 985 00:39:41,204 --> 00:39:42,510 Like that? Where he's like...? 986 00:39:42,597 --> 00:39:45,383 I do use the heart a lot and... 987 00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:48,081 But it's a tie. I hate it. 988 00:39:48,124 --> 00:39:50,649 I truly -- It's just so like -- 989 00:39:50,736 --> 00:39:52,912 But a diaper, you know? Like...baby. 990 00:39:52,999 --> 00:39:54,261 I use the heart a lot. 991 00:39:54,348 --> 00:39:56,176 I use the heart a lot. I like it. 992 00:39:56,263 --> 00:39:58,787 I just want people to know, you know? Like, I'm just like -- 993 00:39:58,831 --> 00:40:01,268 I don't give a thumbs-up because I feel like 994 00:40:01,355 --> 00:40:03,139 that's too, um, sporty. 995 00:40:03,226 --> 00:40:06,316 But I do the lightning bolt a lot, and I love it. 996 00:40:06,404 --> 00:40:08,014 -Ooh. -I absolutely love it. 997 00:40:08,144 --> 00:40:09,668 And I feel like when people get it, they're like, 998 00:40:09,755 --> 00:40:10,973 "Oh! [Giggles]" 999 00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:12,366 You know? They love that. 1000 00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:14,586 Really, like, "You got it. Yeah." 1001 00:40:14,673 --> 00:40:16,501 Like, "See you there. Pshew!" You know what I mean? 1002 00:40:16,588 --> 00:40:20,243 Yeah. I do the one heart and then the little heart. 1003 00:40:20,374 --> 00:40:22,071 -Oh, I like that. -Together. 1004 00:40:22,158 --> 00:40:24,247 It's a little bit of like an ellipses heart or something. 1005 00:40:24,334 --> 00:40:25,945 It's, like, got a little movement to it. 1006 00:40:26,075 --> 00:40:28,121 And, of course, the ghost. Just a classic. 1007 00:40:28,208 --> 00:40:29,209 -Ghost is... -Yeah. 1008 00:40:29,339 --> 00:40:30,732 He's a little silly, too. 1009 00:40:30,776 --> 00:40:33,039 Imbued with, you know, the spiritual. 1010 00:40:33,126 --> 00:40:34,214 Yeah. I like him. 1011 00:40:34,344 --> 00:40:35,955 And, yes, I gendered the ghost. 1012 00:40:35,998 --> 00:40:37,696 -[Laughs] -You can take it back. 1013 00:40:37,826 --> 00:40:40,089 -Exactly. -I refuse. 1014 00:40:40,176 --> 00:40:42,527 Go ahead. Apologize into the lens. 1015 00:40:42,614 --> 00:40:45,007 I really like the face melting. 1016 00:40:45,138 --> 00:40:47,096 There's a lot of ambiguity there. Uh-huh. Why? 1017 00:40:47,183 --> 00:40:48,271 You're not sure what what they're doing. 1018 00:40:48,402 --> 00:40:50,056 You're just like, "Why is there..." 1019 00:40:50,099 --> 00:40:51,710 Someone says something, and I don't know how to react, 1020 00:40:51,797 --> 00:40:53,668 I'm just like, "Ehh..." 1021 00:40:53,755 --> 00:40:54,930 So, yeah, that. 1022 00:40:55,017 --> 00:40:56,149 Take it home, Ramy. 1023 00:40:56,279 --> 00:40:58,978 I think I use the baby angel. 1024 00:40:59,065 --> 00:41:01,197 There's like two angels, but...little angel. 1025 00:41:01,328 --> 00:41:03,069 Because I feel like I'm always -- 1026 00:41:03,199 --> 00:41:05,201 I don't know. I'm always in situations where I'm like, 1027 00:41:05,332 --> 00:41:07,377 "Let me show the the little baby angel 1028 00:41:07,421 --> 00:41:09,858 so we can all remember that we're here." 1029 00:41:09,989 --> 00:41:11,773 I don't even know what baby angel is. 1030 00:41:11,817 --> 00:41:14,559 He's got the face and he's got the little wings and... 1031 00:41:14,689 --> 00:41:17,736 Does he have a little -- Like, the -- ...halo? 1032 00:41:17,823 --> 00:41:19,868 It's got wings. The halo is the older angel. 1033 00:41:19,955 --> 00:41:22,349 But I use the baby to kind of say, 1034 00:41:22,436 --> 00:41:24,264 "Hey, I know I'm being annoying, 1035 00:41:24,351 --> 00:41:26,875 but remember we're all just babies navigating this world." 1036 00:41:27,006 --> 00:41:29,922 So it's just a nod to the inner child. 1037 00:41:29,965 --> 00:41:33,316 I couldn't even finish. I couldn't even finish it. 1038 00:41:33,403 --> 00:41:35,144 But I think that's -- I do use it -- 1039 00:41:35,231 --> 00:41:36,668 I think that's why I use it. 1040 00:41:36,798 --> 00:41:38,321 I've never put it in these words. 1041 00:41:38,408 --> 00:41:39,975 But then I looked at Mike, and I was like... 1042 00:41:40,062 --> 00:41:41,673 There's real elegance to some of these emojis. 1043 00:41:41,716 --> 00:41:43,370 The one that looks like Mount Fiji, 1044 00:41:43,457 --> 00:41:44,893 you're just like, "Wow. That's really beautiful." 1045 00:41:44,980 --> 00:41:47,156 ...one that's just, like, a rock. 1046 00:41:47,243 --> 00:41:49,115 Like, when you can find one and you're like, "This has not been used." 1047 00:41:49,202 --> 00:41:50,464 -You're doing work. -You feel incredible. 1048 00:41:50,508 --> 00:41:52,292 -Yeah, it's very nice. -I love it. 1049 00:41:52,379 --> 00:41:54,337 On that note, thank you, guys, 1050 00:41:54,468 --> 00:41:55,904 so much for doing this. 1051 00:41:56,035 --> 00:41:58,646 -Appreciate it. -Mike speaks for all of us. 1052 00:41:58,733 --> 00:42:00,779 -I dunno. -Taffy? 1053 00:42:00,866 --> 00:42:03,129 [Laughter] 1054 00:42:03,259 --> 00:42:04,565 Today's takeaway? 1055 00:42:04,652 --> 00:42:06,436 With all the uncertainty in the world, 1056 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,916 one thing is for certain -- 1057 00:42:08,003 --> 00:42:09,875 we need comedy now more than ever. 1058 00:42:09,962 --> 00:42:11,529 And we're not going anywhere. 1059 00:42:11,572 --> 00:42:13,356 Until next time, I'm Yvonne Orji, 1060 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,837 and this is "Off Script with The Hollywood Reporter." 1061 00:42:16,011 --> 00:42:23,062 ♪