1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.LT 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.LT 3 00:01:08,155 --> 00:01:09,286 Is that all I get? 4 00:01:09,417 --> 00:01:11,767 - No. - Jeez. 5 00:01:21,037 --> 00:01:23,344 Gee, look at that old place. 6 00:01:23,431 --> 00:01:25,781 Looks like something out of a dream. 7 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,459 Please. 8 00:02:35,590 --> 00:02:37,722 I'm so sick of these romantic comedies 9 00:02:37,853 --> 00:02:39,333 with these non-committal titles, you know? 10 00:02:39,463 --> 00:02:43,075 Like, "Feeling sorta, kinda, whoo!" 11 00:02:43,206 --> 00:02:44,816 Something's gotta give! 12 00:02:44,903 --> 00:02:46,601 It's like, that's like the movie's way of going, 13 00:02:46,688 --> 00:02:50,300 "Don't blame me, I got nothing to do with this!" 14 00:02:53,564 --> 00:02:56,176 Give a movie a title! 15 00:02:56,306 --> 00:02:57,960 Give it... And get ready to bleep me. 16 00:02:58,090 --> 00:03:00,180 ...a motherfucking title! 17 00:03:00,310 --> 00:03:03,183 - Yeah! - You know what the greatest movie title ever is? 18 00:03:03,313 --> 00:03:05,185 A movie title should let you see 19 00:03:05,272 --> 00:03:07,535 a free movie in your head when you hear the title. 20 00:03:07,622 --> 00:03:10,190 'Cause you go, "Oh, my God, we gotta go see that!" 21 00:03:10,277 --> 00:03:11,452 Greatest movie title ever? 22 00:03:11,582 --> 00:03:14,281 Texas Chain Saw Massacre. 23 00:03:24,421 --> 00:03:28,599 My first movie memory is a memory of terror, 24 00:03:28,686 --> 00:03:33,691 because I was at a Halloween activity day for kids. 25 00:03:33,822 --> 00:03:36,955 I was 5, down in Tustin Meadows, 26 00:03:37,042 --> 00:03:40,524 and it's the early '70s, and the adults, they meant well, 27 00:03:40,655 --> 00:03:43,048 but they were thinking, "Oh, let's make pumpkin cookies, 28 00:03:43,135 --> 00:03:45,442 and let's do cut-out black cats, 29 00:03:45,573 --> 00:03:47,966 and we'll show the kids an old silent movie, 30 00:03:48,097 --> 00:03:50,404 Nosferatu, that'll be safe for the kids. 31 00:03:50,491 --> 00:03:52,667 It's an old, silent, G-rated." 32 00:03:52,797 --> 00:03:56,497 And they projected a little eight-millimeter thing on a wall, 33 00:03:56,627 --> 00:03:59,369 and it was... It was... 34 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:04,940 It's still one of the scariest things I've ever experienced. 35 00:04:05,027 --> 00:04:10,206 It's just this square of light on a wall in a library activity room, 36 00:04:10,293 --> 00:04:14,515 and we were just pulled out of early '70s Tustin Meadows, 37 00:04:14,645 --> 00:04:18,127 and into this nightmare-logic German vampire world. 38 00:04:19,128 --> 00:04:21,609 Really disturbing imagery 39 00:04:24,002 --> 00:04:28,268 that has its own creepy sense of time and gravity and logic, 40 00:04:28,398 --> 00:04:31,140 and it really, really messes you up. 41 00:04:32,707 --> 00:04:35,449 Nothing in Nosferatu moves very quickly. 42 00:04:38,147 --> 00:04:39,975 The vampire rarely moves. 43 00:04:43,457 --> 00:04:47,461 So, it's like a series of photographs that are very, very disturbing. 44 00:04:51,552 --> 00:04:54,816 My first "encounters" with Texas Chain Saw Massacre 45 00:04:54,946 --> 00:04:57,297 were images. I wasn't able to-- 46 00:04:57,384 --> 00:05:00,256 I didn't have access to the movie... This was now the early '80s. 47 00:05:00,343 --> 00:05:03,868 ...but you had access to Fangoria magazine. 48 00:05:03,999 --> 00:05:07,872 I was used to pictures of films being very well-lit, very well-composed. 49 00:05:08,003 --> 00:05:11,006 And these looked like crime scene photographs 50 00:05:11,093 --> 00:05:13,225 that had been stolen, and then Xeroxed, 51 00:05:13,356 --> 00:05:15,489 and it was second and third generation. 52 00:05:15,619 --> 00:05:19,144 And there was something so primitive and forbidden and creepy about-- 53 00:05:19,275 --> 00:05:23,540 Just the photos of the film were very, very disturbing. 54 00:05:23,671 --> 00:05:26,369 The title sounds like you're chewing on flesh. 55 00:05:26,456 --> 00:05:28,066 Texas Chain Saw Massacre. 56 00:05:28,197 --> 00:05:30,417 It sounds like a guy just ripping into meat. 57 00:05:32,157 --> 00:05:33,115 And now... 58 00:05:34,943 --> 00:05:36,292 let's watch. 59 00:05:40,992 --> 00:05:42,864 Hello? 60 00:05:43,343 --> 00:05:46,520 My first viewing of Texas Chain Saw Massacre 61 00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:51,089 happened on my friend's small, color TV 62 00:05:51,220 --> 00:05:55,529 in his living room, with his ancient early '80s VCR, 63 00:05:55,659 --> 00:05:59,097 top-loading, no rewind, no pause. 64 00:05:59,184 --> 00:06:02,100 You put it in, you hit play, boom, there you go. 65 00:06:02,187 --> 00:06:03,711 - Hello! - I bet his family 66 00:06:03,841 --> 00:06:06,061 spent eight grand on that VCR. 67 00:06:12,154 --> 00:06:14,069 I remember my friend had this. 68 00:06:14,156 --> 00:06:17,464 We watched it at his house. This is... 69 00:06:17,594 --> 00:06:21,859 I love how they compiled a bunch of different images. 70 00:06:21,946 --> 00:06:25,080 This is Leatherface running away from the house at the very end. 71 00:06:25,167 --> 00:06:26,951 That's Pam being hung earlier. 72 00:06:27,082 --> 00:06:28,692 I always loved the detail 73 00:06:28,779 --> 00:06:31,608 of the chainsaw hitting the "T" and the "H." 74 00:06:31,695 --> 00:06:33,958 It's like he's killing his own movie. 75 00:06:34,045 --> 00:06:35,786 That's how evil this guy is. 76 00:06:37,658 --> 00:06:39,224 It has the feel that 77 00:06:39,311 --> 00:06:41,444 the killers in the movie have stolen a camera, 78 00:06:41,531 --> 00:06:43,272 and are filming all of this. 79 00:06:51,541 --> 00:06:53,848 The visuals and the film itself 80 00:06:53,978 --> 00:06:57,852 are ferocious and primitive, and not quite human. 81 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,379 And the stupidity of the point of view, 82 00:07:03,466 --> 00:07:05,903 of just the animal stupidity of it. 83 00:07:06,034 --> 00:07:08,166 There's no clever dialogue. 84 00:07:08,253 --> 00:07:09,777 You can make them stop. 85 00:07:09,907 --> 00:07:11,605 No, he can't. 86 00:07:12,257 --> 00:07:13,998 Shut your mouth. 87 00:07:15,522 --> 00:07:18,220 Can't be helped, young lady. 88 00:07:18,307 --> 00:07:20,004 - Oh, please. - Shut up. 89 00:07:20,091 --> 00:07:23,704 - You can't let them kill me. - Don't pay him no mind. 90 00:07:23,834 --> 00:07:25,923 There's no negotiating with this family. 91 00:07:26,010 --> 00:07:29,579 They're not doing it out of hatred. It's what they are. 92 00:07:29,666 --> 00:07:31,494 You like this face? 93 00:07:38,675 --> 00:07:41,373 Much like in Jaws, they're like, 94 00:07:41,461 --> 00:07:43,375 "Why are you swimming in the ocean? 95 00:07:43,463 --> 00:07:46,640 That's where sharks live. It's kind of your fault." 96 00:07:51,340 --> 00:07:54,386 Man Bites Dog is this amazing Belgian film 97 00:07:54,474 --> 00:07:57,128 about a film crew, a young film crew 98 00:07:57,259 --> 00:07:59,391 that are besotted with cinema, 99 00:07:59,479 --> 00:08:01,306 who are following around a psychopath 100 00:08:01,393 --> 00:08:02,786 while he goes about his day, 101 00:08:02,873 --> 00:08:06,486 and philosophizes on what life and death are, 102 00:08:06,616 --> 00:08:09,489 and it takes you a while to realize he's a moron, basically. 103 00:08:09,576 --> 00:08:11,186 But he happens to kill people. 104 00:08:17,061 --> 00:08:19,411 Man Bites Dog shares a lot of DNA 105 00:08:19,542 --> 00:08:20,848 with The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, 106 00:08:20,935 --> 00:08:23,764 but there are moments in Man Bites Dog 107 00:08:23,894 --> 00:08:26,244 when you see how it's affecting the film crew, 108 00:08:26,375 --> 00:08:27,811 all the killing that they're doing, 109 00:08:27,898 --> 00:08:29,247 and eventually, 110 00:08:29,334 --> 00:08:33,687 that there is some kind of moral judgment going on. 111 00:08:40,563 --> 00:08:42,870 Texas Chain Saw Massacre is so much more brutal 112 00:08:42,957 --> 00:08:44,785 because the camera is simply observing. 113 00:08:44,915 --> 00:08:46,177 It has no opinion. 114 00:08:46,264 --> 00:08:48,440 It's not being affected by what it's seeing, 115 00:08:48,571 --> 00:08:52,619 so you get the full brunt of what is happening. 116 00:08:54,664 --> 00:08:55,883 And weirdly enough, 117 00:08:56,013 --> 00:08:57,754 the camera, it's almost mocking us 118 00:08:57,885 --> 00:09:00,540 in the weird moments of beauty that it finds. 119 00:09:00,627 --> 00:09:03,455 Almost like, "I'm gonna show you this moment of beauty, 120 00:09:03,543 --> 00:09:05,893 because you know something horrible's coming up." 121 00:09:11,594 --> 00:09:12,726 Kirk. 122 00:09:17,731 --> 00:09:20,342 When Pam gets up off the swinging chair, 123 00:09:20,429 --> 00:09:21,909 and there's that beautiful shot 124 00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:26,043 of her walking against the blue sky. 125 00:09:26,174 --> 00:09:28,959 The camera's almost going, "Oh, you want a nice Hollywood movie? 126 00:09:29,046 --> 00:09:30,657 Well, here's your nice glamor shot," 127 00:09:30,744 --> 00:09:33,311 as she's literally walking into a slaughterhouse. 128 00:09:33,398 --> 00:09:35,139 She doesn't know that, but we do. 129 00:09:35,226 --> 00:09:38,012 So, the beauty of the shot itself is mocking us, 130 00:09:38,099 --> 00:09:39,448 and it's amazing. 131 00:09:39,579 --> 00:09:42,364 It just really jangles your emotions. 132 00:09:43,365 --> 00:09:47,369 He likes what is lurking beneath what looks like a picture postcard. 133 00:09:47,978 --> 00:09:52,287 The beautiful Days of Heaven type shots of the landscape. 134 00:09:52,417 --> 00:09:53,767 Or, you know, "Oh, this is nice!" 135 00:09:53,854 --> 00:09:56,160 And then it just goes horribly wrong. 136 00:09:59,773 --> 00:10:03,254 There's one shot in Nosferatu that totally mirrors the shot in Texas, 137 00:10:03,341 --> 00:10:05,300 where she gets up off the swing and walks into the house. 138 00:10:05,430 --> 00:10:08,912 It's a very calm, peaceful, idyllic shot 139 00:10:08,999 --> 00:10:10,392 of a ship coming into a harbor, 140 00:10:10,479 --> 00:10:14,614 but we know that ship is crawling with death, 141 00:10:14,744 --> 00:10:17,355 and is bringing the plague to this city. 142 00:10:17,442 --> 00:10:19,836 He's using it in service of telling you 143 00:10:19,923 --> 00:10:22,447 that death and destruction is coming. 144 00:10:22,578 --> 00:10:24,928 And I love it. It's amazing. 145 00:10:25,015 --> 00:10:27,235 I've never forgotten that shot. 146 00:10:31,587 --> 00:10:33,415 This is my theory about Texas Chain Saw, 147 00:10:33,545 --> 00:10:37,158 because, again, I've seen the movie 30 times. 148 00:10:37,288 --> 00:10:40,074 The opening credits have close-up shots 149 00:10:40,161 --> 00:10:43,033 of storms on the surface of the sun. 150 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,862 Red storms, just blazing on the surface of the sun, 151 00:10:45,993 --> 00:10:47,821 and then, in the rest of the movie, 152 00:10:47,908 --> 00:10:50,998 people are always looking up at the sun. 153 00:10:51,433 --> 00:10:55,002 It's like the sun itself has become diseased, 154 00:10:55,132 --> 00:10:59,615 and is bathing the world in this madness, 155 00:10:59,702 --> 00:11:00,964 and it's starting to take hold, 156 00:11:01,051 --> 00:11:03,401 and we're just following a small group of people. 157 00:11:03,488 --> 00:11:05,665 I think the madness in that movie 158 00:11:05,795 --> 00:11:07,536 is spreading all over the planet. 159 00:11:07,623 --> 00:11:11,279 We are just watching one tiny incident of it. 160 00:11:11,366 --> 00:11:13,673 Leatherface seems terrified and horrified 161 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,152 by the fact the people are in the house, 162 00:11:15,283 --> 00:11:18,373 and doesn't quite know what to do. 163 00:11:18,503 --> 00:11:20,244 In a weird way, up until this point, 164 00:11:20,375 --> 00:11:22,856 I feel like Leatherface was just digging up bones, 165 00:11:22,986 --> 00:11:25,815 but maybe he wasn't really killing anybody. 166 00:11:25,946 --> 00:11:27,774 He was just digging stuff up, 167 00:11:27,904 --> 00:11:30,080 and making arts and crafts out of it, and furniture. 168 00:11:30,167 --> 00:11:33,083 But now, people are being fed into the slaughterhouse. 169 00:11:33,170 --> 00:11:36,826 And, you know, first he clobbers the guy with a hammer, 170 00:11:36,957 --> 00:11:39,699 the way you would just stun a cow, 171 00:11:39,786 --> 00:11:40,917 then he grabs the other woman, 172 00:11:41,048 --> 00:11:44,486 and with no diabolism or passion, 173 00:11:44,616 --> 00:11:47,184 just hangs her on a hook, turns, goes back to his work, 174 00:11:47,315 --> 00:11:48,795 'cause that's what you do. 175 00:11:48,882 --> 00:11:50,492 And then, after he's killed the third guy, 176 00:11:50,579 --> 00:11:52,799 he goes into the front room, and he's looking out the window, 177 00:11:52,886 --> 00:11:54,757 like, "What is happening? What is happening? 178 00:11:54,844 --> 00:11:57,107 Why are people coming to this house?" 179 00:11:57,194 --> 00:12:00,110 Like, he's not prepared for this. 180 00:12:00,241 --> 00:12:01,416 Then, later on, when his family comes home, 181 00:12:01,503 --> 00:12:03,461 they're yelling at him and bullying him. 182 00:12:03,592 --> 00:12:06,247 It's like the world is starting to go crazy. 183 00:12:06,377 --> 00:12:07,857 Are you sure-- 184 00:12:13,733 --> 00:12:14,690 You... 185 00:12:16,083 --> 00:12:17,867 You damn fool! 186 00:12:17,954 --> 00:12:19,347 You ruined the door! 187 00:12:21,958 --> 00:12:26,354 That last shot of Leatherface waving his chainsaw at the sky, 188 00:12:26,484 --> 00:12:30,140 it's this bright red ugly sun like we saw in that first image, 189 00:12:30,271 --> 00:12:31,707 the sun storms, 190 00:12:31,794 --> 00:12:34,536 the madness is fully taking hold of the earth, 191 00:12:34,666 --> 00:12:38,192 and Leatherface is trying to kill the sun with his chainsaw. 192 00:12:38,279 --> 00:12:41,325 She's in the back of the truck laughing, she's gone insane, 193 00:12:41,456 --> 00:12:44,720 like the world is now going insane. It's an apocalyptic event. 194 00:12:44,807 --> 00:12:46,809 That's what I think is going on in that movie. 195 00:12:46,940 --> 00:12:48,985 And that's another link to Nosferatu, 196 00:12:49,116 --> 00:12:52,467 which is, it is an apocalypse coming to this city. 197 00:12:52,597 --> 00:12:55,078 Whereas in Nosferatu, the sun, 198 00:12:55,209 --> 00:12:56,776 the rising sun saves the city 199 00:12:56,863 --> 00:12:58,908 from the plague and from the madness, 200 00:12:59,039 --> 00:13:01,911 but in Texas Chain Saw, there's no escaping it. 201 00:13:02,042 --> 00:13:05,480 The whole world is bathed in this evil radiation. 202 00:13:05,610 --> 00:13:07,047 Oh, honey, you're gonna ruin your eyes. 203 00:13:07,177 --> 00:13:08,570 This is not good for you. 204 00:13:12,008 --> 00:13:14,837 Everyone watches a movie differently. 205 00:13:14,924 --> 00:13:17,361 Here's an example of how everyone watches a movie differently. 206 00:13:17,448 --> 00:13:19,407 When I was in college, 207 00:13:19,494 --> 00:13:21,975 I went with my then girlfriend and her mom-- 208 00:13:22,105 --> 00:13:23,890 I don't know why her mom was with us. 209 00:13:23,977 --> 00:13:26,675 But we went to see Silence of the Lambs. 210 00:13:26,762 --> 00:13:29,243 And we left the movie, and I was like, 211 00:13:29,330 --> 00:13:32,724 "Man, that was intense, like, that was amazing." 212 00:13:32,855 --> 00:13:34,509 And then, her mom said, 213 00:13:34,944 --> 00:13:39,557 "I know. That man had a ring in his nipple." 214 00:13:40,210 --> 00:13:43,170 And that was the thing that she took from that. 215 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:47,043 And I was like, "I think he was making clothes out of people?" 216 00:13:47,130 --> 00:13:50,699 But, like, that's what she landed on. 217 00:13:50,786 --> 00:13:53,180 So, with Texas Chain Saw, you can look at it for what it is. 218 00:13:53,267 --> 00:13:55,269 It's a horror movie, a group of people come 219 00:13:55,399 --> 00:13:57,837 and they encounter monsters, and who's gonna get away? 220 00:13:57,967 --> 00:14:00,056 But you can also look at it as 221 00:14:00,143 --> 00:14:01,797 the most fucked up Western ever made, 222 00:14:01,928 --> 00:14:04,365 where this is the long, long, 223 00:14:04,495 --> 00:14:07,498 long hangover of Western expansion, 224 00:14:07,585 --> 00:14:10,980 of going out, subduing the Native Americans, 225 00:14:11,111 --> 00:14:12,764 killing off all the buffalo. 226 00:14:12,895 --> 00:14:15,071 We've done all that, there's nothing left. 227 00:14:15,202 --> 00:14:17,857 Hey, man, did you go in that slaughter room, or whatever they call it? 228 00:14:17,944 --> 00:14:20,381 The place where they shoot cattle in the head with that big air gun? 229 00:14:20,511 --> 00:14:23,732 Oh, that-- That gun's no good. 230 00:14:23,863 --> 00:14:25,255 I was in there once, with my uncle. 231 00:14:25,342 --> 00:14:28,171 The old way. With a sledge. 232 00:14:28,302 --> 00:14:31,871 See, that was better, they died better that way. 233 00:14:31,958 --> 00:14:33,916 How come? I thought the gun was better. 234 00:14:34,003 --> 00:14:35,875 Oh, no, no. 235 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,748 With the new way, people were put out of jobs. 236 00:14:39,835 --> 00:14:40,749 You do that? 237 00:14:41,968 --> 00:14:42,751 Look! 238 00:14:45,406 --> 00:14:47,756 So, the people that did all the gross, 239 00:14:47,887 --> 00:14:50,019 dirty work that we don't like to look at... 240 00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:51,803 Although we do enjoy our steaks. 241 00:14:51,934 --> 00:14:54,154 But I don't wanna think about a guy with a hammer, 242 00:14:54,241 --> 00:14:55,242 you know, killing a cow. 243 00:14:55,372 --> 00:14:56,896 But now they're, 244 00:14:57,026 --> 00:14:58,680 "Well, we're gonna just start eating you. 245 00:14:58,810 --> 00:15:02,379 We still gotta feed ourselves, so you're the cattle now." 246 00:15:02,945 --> 00:15:04,816 And now, here's a van full of hippies, 247 00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:07,036 like, literally a Scooby-Doo group, 248 00:15:07,167 --> 00:15:08,908 and they're being slaughtered 249 00:15:08,995 --> 00:15:13,260 by these displaced blue-collar workers. 250 00:15:13,347 --> 00:15:14,870 The family in Texas Chain Saw Massacre 251 00:15:14,957 --> 00:15:17,829 are doing the most extreme, disturbing version 252 00:15:17,917 --> 00:15:20,267 of how life operates. 253 00:15:20,397 --> 00:15:22,791 It's not you dying and feeding trees. 254 00:15:22,878 --> 00:15:25,098 It's somebody hanging you on a meat hook 255 00:15:25,228 --> 00:15:27,100 so they can cut steaks off of you, 256 00:15:27,187 --> 00:15:29,754 and serve you to their family so the family can survive. 257 00:15:29,841 --> 00:15:32,061 'Cause, "I wanna take care of my dad, and my brother, 258 00:15:32,148 --> 00:15:33,193 and my grandpa. 259 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,238 And, if they need it, 260 00:15:35,325 --> 00:15:38,720 I'll go make myself look like their mom. I'll be the mom." 261 00:15:38,850 --> 00:15:42,985 Like, there is this absolutely serving the function of family 262 00:15:43,116 --> 00:15:45,727 in the most damaged way possible. 263 00:15:46,119 --> 00:15:48,860 Doesn't matter how many flowers you garland over your backyard, 264 00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:51,080 no matter how many beautiful books 265 00:15:51,167 --> 00:15:52,560 you decorate your shelves with, 266 00:15:52,690 --> 00:15:54,127 you will eventually die. 267 00:15:54,214 --> 00:15:56,738 Your body-- And death is a horror show. 268 00:15:56,868 --> 00:15:58,914 There's no way to get around it. 269 00:15:59,045 --> 00:16:00,872 There's a Stan Brakhage film 270 00:16:01,003 --> 00:16:03,310 called The Act of Seeing with One's Own Eyes, 271 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,877 where it's a footage of an autopsy. 272 00:16:06,008 --> 00:16:07,836 And you watch it-- 273 00:16:07,923 --> 00:16:09,751 I remember Alan Moore described it, where, 274 00:16:09,881 --> 00:16:11,971 at first, you're horrified, "Oh, my God, this is--" 275 00:16:12,101 --> 00:16:13,537 You know, they're cutting a body open. 276 00:16:13,668 --> 00:16:16,976 But then, as it goes on, there is a kind of beauty 277 00:16:17,063 --> 00:16:20,196 in like, this is a really complex machine, 278 00:16:20,283 --> 00:16:23,983 and it works. And that's me, I work. 279 00:16:24,113 --> 00:16:27,595 That there is beauty in all this gore. 280 00:16:28,422 --> 00:16:33,557 So, if you can face the horror of it dead on, without blinking, 281 00:16:33,688 --> 00:16:37,083 then there's poetry in you not blinking at it. 282 00:16:37,387 --> 00:16:42,958 The camera in Texas Chain Saw, by not blinking, by not judging, 283 00:16:43,089 --> 00:16:47,354 is being a very demented, poisonous sort of poet. 284 00:16:50,618 --> 00:16:53,534 Every frame has something unnerving in it. 285 00:16:53,621 --> 00:16:55,362 Like, even a long shot of the highway, 286 00:16:55,449 --> 00:16:58,191 then there's a dead armadillo. 287 00:16:58,321 --> 00:17:01,237 This weird swoop of the chainsaw at the end 288 00:17:01,368 --> 00:17:03,979 when Leatherface is coming after their pickup truck, 289 00:17:04,110 --> 00:17:08,201 or that pause that Sally does after she closes the van door, 290 00:17:08,288 --> 00:17:11,552 - and then she sees that symbol. - Let's go. 291 00:17:11,682 --> 00:17:14,163 Or, when they go visit the graveyard, 292 00:17:14,294 --> 00:17:16,948 there's the people that are kind of laughing and crazy, 293 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,516 and the one drunk sitting in the tire, 294 00:17:19,647 --> 00:17:24,434 I've always wondered, is he an accomplice of the hitchhiker? 295 00:17:24,521 --> 00:17:27,872 Is he quietly also helping him at night dig stuff up, 296 00:17:28,003 --> 00:17:30,136 and he's finally going nuts 297 00:17:30,223 --> 00:17:32,181 thinking about the morality of what he's doing, 298 00:17:32,268 --> 00:17:35,054 and that's why he's out there drunk, like, "I've seen things!" 299 00:17:35,184 --> 00:17:37,969 Things happen here about, 300 00:17:38,057 --> 00:17:39,406 they don't tell about. 301 00:17:41,886 --> 00:17:43,932 I see things. 302 00:17:44,498 --> 00:17:48,241 Is the guy who goes and comes and washes their window, 303 00:17:48,371 --> 00:17:52,201 is he another, like, cousin, or weird, distant, inbred version, 304 00:17:52,288 --> 00:17:54,856 member of the family that they don't know what to do with, 305 00:17:54,943 --> 00:17:56,249 and they're like, "Go wash windows." 306 00:17:56,379 --> 00:17:58,555 There's a whole infrastructure going on 307 00:17:58,642 --> 00:18:00,340 that they don't talk about, but it's there. 308 00:18:00,427 --> 00:18:02,994 And, also, just when they go and find the old house, 309 00:18:03,082 --> 00:18:04,300 there's all those clocks 310 00:18:04,387 --> 00:18:06,215 and watches with nails through them, 311 00:18:06,346 --> 00:18:09,305 hanging in the tree... Much like Castle Dracula. 312 00:18:09,436 --> 00:18:11,655 You're now in a zone where time doesn't matter, 313 00:18:11,786 --> 00:18:15,006 gravity doesn't matter. We rule things here. 314 00:18:17,618 --> 00:18:19,794 Texas Chain Saw feels eternal. 315 00:18:28,237 --> 00:18:32,023 The experience itself will always be disturbing and frightening, 316 00:18:32,111 --> 00:18:34,287 outside of any context that you're watching it in. 317 00:18:34,896 --> 00:18:37,551 The moment of Texas Chain Saw Massacre 318 00:18:37,942 --> 00:18:41,381 is the moment when Pam 319 00:18:41,511 --> 00:18:43,818 almost escapes the house. 320 00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:45,776 I feel like that moment 321 00:18:45,863 --> 00:18:49,737 separated a specific generation of horror movie fans: 322 00:18:49,867 --> 00:18:53,393 the ones who stayed became the people that read Fangoria 323 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,004 and got into all the John Carpenter stuff, 324 00:18:56,135 --> 00:18:57,919 and the ones who were out were just like, 325 00:18:58,006 --> 00:19:00,139 "Yeah, this isn't my... It's just not my thing." 326 00:19:00,269 --> 00:19:01,836 And I know people my age now 327 00:19:01,966 --> 00:19:03,620 who have never gotten beyond that point. 328 00:19:03,751 --> 00:19:04,926 Once the porch scene happens, 329 00:19:05,056 --> 00:19:06,145 they're like, "Yep, I'm out." 330 00:19:07,276 --> 00:19:10,845 It's also a very, very twisted version 331 00:19:10,975 --> 00:19:13,935 of the scene in Gone with the Wind, 332 00:19:14,022 --> 00:19:16,459 where Rhett Butler, who basically rapes her, 333 00:19:16,546 --> 00:19:18,722 he just-- "You're not turning me out tonight," 334 00:19:18,809 --> 00:19:20,985 and he picks her up, and takes her up the stairs 335 00:19:21,116 --> 00:19:23,510 while she's pounding on him. 336 00:19:24,598 --> 00:19:26,252 It's just a mutant version 337 00:19:26,382 --> 00:19:29,733 of what people thought romance was in movies. 338 00:19:31,648 --> 00:19:34,782 There'll be no locks or bolts between us, Mary-Kate, 339 00:19:34,869 --> 00:19:38,264 except those in your own mercenary little heart. 340 00:19:54,323 --> 00:19:56,064 You watch it now, you're like, 341 00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:57,718 "Ooh, yikes." 342 00:19:57,848 --> 00:19:59,850 So, at least Texas Chain Saw Massacre 343 00:19:59,981 --> 00:20:02,070 was like, "Well, this is what it actually is," you know? 344 00:20:02,201 --> 00:20:05,073 She is literally a piece of meat, ka-chunk. 345 00:20:07,293 --> 00:20:10,209 I see Tobe Hooper as the best kind of film stylist, 346 00:20:10,296 --> 00:20:12,559 in that he was an opportunist. 347 00:20:12,646 --> 00:20:15,431 You can plan and storyboard all you want. 348 00:20:15,562 --> 00:20:17,825 It's when you get to the location, and realize, 349 00:20:17,955 --> 00:20:22,221 "Oh, that shot I want I can't get, but I could get this." 350 00:20:22,308 --> 00:20:23,396 They had no money. 351 00:20:28,923 --> 00:20:32,579 And it has that adrenaline, desperate quality to it, 352 00:20:32,709 --> 00:20:34,755 of, "We're grabbing shots wherever we can." 353 00:20:40,239 --> 00:20:43,590 I watched it again, on my big-screen TV, 354 00:20:43,677 --> 00:20:45,853 and I just now realized, the lamp over the dinner table, 355 00:20:45,983 --> 00:20:47,855 that's a human face. 356 00:20:48,203 --> 00:20:51,424 And the "armchair." Get it? 357 00:20:51,859 --> 00:20:54,470 So, there's all these little details. 358 00:20:55,297 --> 00:20:59,693 Bob Burns, the art director, was frigging amazing. 359 00:21:04,828 --> 00:21:06,134 I mean, look, Tobe Hooper 360 00:21:06,221 --> 00:21:08,397 did kind of a scary thing for an artist, 361 00:21:08,528 --> 00:21:12,706 which is he really didn't blink from his dark side. 362 00:21:14,316 --> 00:21:16,275 Sometimes the zeitgeist picks a messenger, 363 00:21:16,405 --> 00:21:18,581 and that messenger doesn't realize that they're the one 364 00:21:18,712 --> 00:21:20,714 that's being picked, and they're the one that's channeling 365 00:21:20,801 --> 00:21:23,673 and delivering what the zeitgeist wants people to look at. 366 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,720 And I think the zeitgeist, clearly, is prankish and playful, 367 00:21:26,850 --> 00:21:28,852 and it's like, "Oh, I'm gonna show people what they are 368 00:21:28,983 --> 00:21:32,682 through the grossest drive-in movie possible, 369 00:21:32,813 --> 00:21:35,032 but that will actually stand the test of time." 370 00:22:20,426 --> 00:22:21,601 Hello? 371 00:22:25,996 --> 00:22:27,868 Is anybody home? 372 00:22:31,785 --> 00:22:34,657 Excuse me, I'm looking for some friends. 373 00:22:34,744 --> 00:22:35,702 Hello? 374 00:24:02,963 --> 00:24:04,443 I thought I heard something. 375 00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:07,228 There's a light. 376 00:24:07,358 --> 00:24:08,795 - Yeah? - Yeah. 377 00:24:10,666 --> 00:24:14,017 Oh, looks like a house. 378 00:24:43,351 --> 00:24:44,526 What are you doing? 379 00:25:08,202 --> 00:25:10,944 No, no! 380 00:25:16,427 --> 00:25:18,081 According to Sheriff Maldonado, 381 00:25:18,212 --> 00:25:19,648 there were instances in which only the head 382 00:25:19,735 --> 00:25:21,128 and extremities were removed. 383 00:32:04,444 --> 00:32:06,141 Do you believe in Jesus? 384 00:32:06,272 --> 00:32:07,273 Yes, I do. 385 00:32:08,578 --> 00:32:10,102 Well, you're gonna meet him. 386 00:33:34,925 --> 00:33:37,102 Where is my ring? 387 00:36:34,279 --> 00:36:36,890 Did you ever go back to the theater to watch City Lights? 388 00:37:47,656 --> 00:37:49,092 I was born in the same year 389 00:37:49,223 --> 00:37:51,051 Texas Chain Saw Massacre was born. 390 00:37:55,490 --> 00:37:59,407 I grew up on the border of the outer suburbs of Melbourne in Australia, 391 00:37:59,538 --> 00:38:01,496 and the bush, effectively, 392 00:38:01,627 --> 00:38:04,282 and we were about 40 minutes from Hanging Rock. 393 00:38:04,891 --> 00:38:09,025 So, growing up, that film was hugely, hugely important to me. 394 00:38:09,156 --> 00:38:12,507 Because it really tied film and the magic of film 395 00:38:12,594 --> 00:38:15,031 to a place that I knew really well. 396 00:38:15,118 --> 00:38:16,294 What we see... 397 00:38:18,296 --> 00:38:19,906 and what we seem... 398 00:38:21,821 --> 00:38:22,996 are but a dream. 399 00:38:26,521 --> 00:38:28,393 A dream within a dream. 400 00:38:43,016 --> 00:38:45,235 And for my eighth birthday, my parents took me-- 401 00:38:45,366 --> 00:38:47,934 They brought me a brand new little lace dress. 402 00:38:48,674 --> 00:38:52,112 And for some deranged reason, they thought it would be funny to hide. 403 00:38:52,242 --> 00:38:54,854 When I went to the bathroom, I came back, they were gone. 404 00:38:54,941 --> 00:38:56,682 And that has stayed with me. 405 00:39:02,383 --> 00:39:05,038 Miranda, don't go up there! Come back! 406 00:39:13,786 --> 00:39:14,917 That feeling has stayed with me. 407 00:39:15,004 --> 00:39:16,615 Partially resentment to my parents, 408 00:39:16,745 --> 00:39:19,313 but mostly just that fear 409 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,098 and that connection of fear to the cinematic. 410 00:39:22,534 --> 00:39:25,406 For a lot of Australians of my generation, 411 00:39:25,493 --> 00:39:28,017 Texas was like Road Runner cartoons. 412 00:39:28,104 --> 00:39:31,543 You know, it was this sort of imaginary, faraway place. 413 00:39:33,283 --> 00:39:36,069 The Texas Chain Saw Massacre was denied classification 414 00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:38,288 in 1975 twice, 415 00:39:38,419 --> 00:39:40,508 and then again in 1981. 416 00:39:40,639 --> 00:39:41,901 It wasn't until 1984 417 00:39:42,031 --> 00:39:43,990 that the film was cleared for release. 418 00:39:47,733 --> 00:39:49,952 Give me that flashlight! 419 00:39:50,518 --> 00:39:52,302 My memory of Texas Chain Saw Massacre 420 00:39:52,433 --> 00:39:54,740 in those very early days when it was finally released 421 00:39:54,827 --> 00:39:56,916 was it was something that was the terrain 422 00:39:57,003 --> 00:39:58,831 of friends' older brothers. 423 00:39:58,918 --> 00:40:02,312 Very gendered and very forbidden for little girls. 424 00:40:02,443 --> 00:40:04,227 And so there was a sense of danger and excitement 425 00:40:04,314 --> 00:40:05,751 to Texas Chain Saw Massacre, 426 00:40:05,838 --> 00:40:08,406 this film that's been banned for ten years, 427 00:40:08,493 --> 00:40:10,016 finally released in Australia. 428 00:40:11,757 --> 00:40:13,454 I was far too young to see the film, 429 00:40:13,541 --> 00:40:16,762 but I have a kind of ambient memory 430 00:40:16,849 --> 00:40:18,851 of it being in the atmosphere. 431 00:40:18,981 --> 00:40:22,332 And I don't know where I first saw the trailer. 432 00:40:22,898 --> 00:40:25,640 K-Tel Video. Your home of entertainment 433 00:40:25,727 --> 00:40:30,297 presents more great titles from Filmways VTC. 434 00:40:34,127 --> 00:40:37,696 This is the horror movie to end them all. 435 00:40:38,697 --> 00:40:41,047 It feels like Leatherface cut the trailer 436 00:40:41,134 --> 00:40:42,831 to the Australian Texas Chain Saw Massacre. 437 00:40:42,918 --> 00:40:45,660 Like, it's off its head, it is mental. 438 00:40:45,791 --> 00:40:48,315 It has this incredible kinetic energy. 439 00:40:48,446 --> 00:40:51,187 It doesn't make a lick of sense at all. 440 00:40:51,274 --> 00:40:52,841 It's like an art film. 441 00:40:52,928 --> 00:40:57,324 It's like this avant-garde, experimental frenzy. 442 00:40:57,411 --> 00:41:02,372 And, you know, you have sort of flashes of generic horror content, 443 00:41:02,808 --> 00:41:06,289 but, you know, kind of blurred, this sort of Stan Brakhage-esque, 444 00:41:06,376 --> 00:41:07,900 experimental blur. 445 00:41:07,987 --> 00:41:10,337 It's like Mothlight with serial killers. 446 00:41:10,424 --> 00:41:12,861 It kind of has no relation to the film, 447 00:41:12,992 --> 00:41:15,908 in that sort of images from one moment 448 00:41:16,299 --> 00:41:17,736 are sort of placed next to images 449 00:41:17,823 --> 00:41:21,043 from a completely separate part of the film. 450 00:41:21,174 --> 00:41:23,481 And so the sensory really takes dominance. 451 00:41:23,568 --> 00:41:25,004 Help! 452 00:41:25,091 --> 00:41:26,745 And that does come through 453 00:41:26,875 --> 00:41:28,311 in the film itself. 454 00:41:28,442 --> 00:41:30,183 Get back and push down. 455 00:41:31,053 --> 00:41:32,490 This is impossible. 456 00:41:35,754 --> 00:41:37,625 I knew something was there. 457 00:41:37,973 --> 00:41:40,541 The first time I saw the film was when I was a bit older, 458 00:41:40,672 --> 00:41:42,891 so it would have been the early '90s. 459 00:41:43,022 --> 00:41:45,590 And it was always presented to me as a kind of test. 460 00:41:45,677 --> 00:41:46,939 Are you hardcore enough? 461 00:41:47,026 --> 00:41:48,506 Got something for you. 462 00:41:52,684 --> 00:41:55,121 Ugh! 463 00:41:55,208 --> 00:41:56,949 I first saw Texas Chain Saw 464 00:41:57,079 --> 00:42:00,213 alongside things like I Spit on Your Grave, 465 00:42:00,300 --> 00:42:02,911 Faces of Death, Executions. 466 00:42:03,433 --> 00:42:05,566 And because these films were really gatekept 467 00:42:05,697 --> 00:42:07,350 by the young men that I knew at the time, 468 00:42:07,437 --> 00:42:10,266 there was a real clash there. 469 00:42:10,397 --> 00:42:11,746 And I remember watching these things 470 00:42:11,833 --> 00:42:13,966 and thinking, "These are for me." 471 00:42:14,053 --> 00:42:17,665 Like, "These really speak to me. These don't belong to you." 472 00:42:18,144 --> 00:42:21,408 So, the Australian VHS release of Texas Chain Saw Massacre 473 00:42:21,539 --> 00:42:24,498 really right through until the late '90s 474 00:42:24,585 --> 00:42:27,936 was copied from, like, a really beat-up film. 475 00:42:28,067 --> 00:42:31,461 So, you have the wear and tear of normal VHS usage 476 00:42:31,549 --> 00:42:35,204 combined with the fact that it was a pretty, pretty shitty print to start with. 477 00:42:35,291 --> 00:42:36,771 So, the version that I saw 478 00:42:36,902 --> 00:42:39,992 and that most people of my generation saw on video 479 00:42:40,122 --> 00:42:42,951 doesn't look like the version that we see today. 480 00:42:43,038 --> 00:42:45,650 It's visually completely different. 481 00:42:48,087 --> 00:42:50,742 I don't remember that film having any blue or green in it. 482 00:42:50,872 --> 00:42:53,832 I remember it being yellow and scratchy 483 00:42:53,919 --> 00:42:55,311 and faded and beat up 484 00:42:55,442 --> 00:42:57,052 and that that was part of the danger. 485 00:42:57,183 --> 00:43:00,273 The feeling that you were watching something really covert 486 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,101 that you weren't meant to see. 487 00:43:06,061 --> 00:43:09,195 Because the version that I first saw was so yellow, 488 00:43:09,282 --> 00:43:11,371 I tethered it much more closely, I think, 489 00:43:11,458 --> 00:43:13,460 to a lot of Australian film that I'd seen. 490 00:43:14,243 --> 00:43:15,767 What we see... 491 00:43:17,246 --> 00:43:18,683 and what we seem... 492 00:43:20,989 --> 00:43:22,121 are but a dream. 493 00:43:25,472 --> 00:43:27,343 A dream within a dream. 494 00:43:41,401 --> 00:43:43,359 Because yellow is really 495 00:43:43,490 --> 00:43:46,362 very, very at the forefront of the aesthetics 496 00:43:46,449 --> 00:43:48,713 of the outback and of the desert. 497 00:43:53,282 --> 00:43:56,198 So, yellow is how I see heat. 498 00:43:56,329 --> 00:43:58,636 And I knew that Texas was hot, and it's like, okay, 499 00:43:58,766 --> 00:44:00,463 so it looks like this, it looks yellow. 500 00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:04,250 It's this very Australian aesthetic of heat. 501 00:44:10,909 --> 00:44:13,999 You know, it looks like things like The Proposition. 502 00:44:16,305 --> 00:44:17,829 Australia. 503 00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:23,008 What fresh hell is this? 504 00:44:23,095 --> 00:44:25,750 And it looks like things like Wolf Creek. 505 00:44:35,324 --> 00:44:38,719 It looks like the start of Wake in Fright. 506 00:44:38,806 --> 00:44:41,635 I first saw Wake in Fright on a VHS tape 507 00:44:41,766 --> 00:44:46,248 that was taped off this one famous TV broadcast in 1989. 508 00:44:46,335 --> 00:44:49,991 And, of course, it's this washed-out print that was shown on TV, 509 00:44:50,122 --> 00:44:53,603 on a tape that had been played a hundred times before. 510 00:44:53,734 --> 00:44:56,432 And I saw it at school, and it was, you know, 511 00:44:56,519 --> 00:44:57,869 hot Australian summer 512 00:44:57,999 --> 00:45:00,088 with no air conditioning in my classroom, 513 00:45:00,219 --> 00:45:03,048 which fits in, of course, beautifully to the film. 514 00:45:03,570 --> 00:45:07,705 It's like this sort of post-apocalyptic Kansas 515 00:45:07,835 --> 00:45:10,838 in like a really fucked up Wizard of Oz. 516 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:12,884 And it's, like, this is the outback. 517 00:45:12,971 --> 00:45:14,929 Welcome to Australia. 518 00:45:18,803 --> 00:45:20,892 My memory of it, seeing it on video, 519 00:45:21,022 --> 00:45:24,547 looks exactly like my memory of seeing Texas Chain Saw Massacre, 520 00:45:24,678 --> 00:45:27,159 and it's tethered so tightly 521 00:45:27,246 --> 00:45:29,596 to the things that were going on in my world, 522 00:45:29,683 --> 00:45:32,425 and in my life, in my country, at the time. 523 00:45:32,555 --> 00:45:35,297 In 1983, we had, uh, dust storms, 524 00:45:35,384 --> 00:45:38,213 these enormous dust storms, terrifying dust storms. 525 00:45:38,300 --> 00:45:43,392 We had horrific bushfires, the Ash Wednesday bushfires, 526 00:45:43,479 --> 00:45:46,047 which were absolutely catastrophic. 527 00:45:46,134 --> 00:45:48,093 It's the most scary thing that's ever happened to me. 528 00:45:48,180 --> 00:45:50,008 It's the most frightened I've ever been. 529 00:45:50,095 --> 00:45:53,141 I have this very, very strong, vivid memory 530 00:45:53,272 --> 00:45:56,666 of these sort of yellow, very heavily yellowed images 531 00:45:56,754 --> 00:45:58,407 of houses that have been burnt down 532 00:45:58,494 --> 00:46:00,714 and all that remains are the chimney stacks. 533 00:46:00,845 --> 00:46:03,108 And every time, even now, no matter how many times 534 00:46:03,238 --> 00:46:04,936 I see Texas Chain Saw Massacre 535 00:46:05,023 --> 00:46:07,286 and I see that tombstone, I always think 536 00:46:07,373 --> 00:46:09,636 it's a chimney stack every single time. 537 00:46:12,073 --> 00:46:14,902 There she is, ladies. Hanging Rock. 538 00:46:15,033 --> 00:46:17,383 Hanging Rock was so physically close 539 00:46:17,470 --> 00:46:18,950 to where those fires were. 540 00:46:19,037 --> 00:46:21,039 The bush that you see in Hanging Rock 541 00:46:21,169 --> 00:46:24,085 is the bush that was destroyed in those fires. 542 00:46:24,172 --> 00:46:25,652 It's the same place. 543 00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:30,700 And there's a beautiful little montage sequence in Hanging Rock 544 00:46:30,788 --> 00:46:32,877 where the girls are sort of swaying and spinning 545 00:46:33,007 --> 00:46:35,880 and they take off their shoes and it's hot. 546 00:46:35,967 --> 00:46:37,229 And I feel that heat. 547 00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:40,536 My body remembers that heat, and that panic, 548 00:46:40,667 --> 00:46:43,496 and that fear, and that disorientation. 549 00:46:48,109 --> 00:46:50,590 So, when I think of the dust storms 550 00:46:50,677 --> 00:46:53,027 and I think of the fires, over time, 551 00:46:53,114 --> 00:46:56,117 they've sort of blurred with images from films. 552 00:46:56,248 --> 00:46:59,642 And the heat that I associate with Texas Chain Saw Massacre 553 00:46:59,773 --> 00:47:03,777 has sort of bled into my memories of the Ash Wednesday fires. 554 00:47:09,870 --> 00:47:12,568 And the fact that one was real and one was a film, 555 00:47:13,221 --> 00:47:15,006 you know, memory doesn't care, it doesn't care. 556 00:47:15,136 --> 00:47:17,791 It's like this weird, porous thing. 557 00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:23,971 I find it hard to be objectively critical 558 00:47:24,058 --> 00:47:25,581 about Texas Chain Saw Massacre 559 00:47:25,712 --> 00:47:27,279 because it's a film that you feel 560 00:47:28,541 --> 00:47:29,585 before you think about. 561 00:47:29,716 --> 00:47:31,544 It's a very smart film. 562 00:47:32,675 --> 00:47:35,591 The depth of the cultural knowledge 563 00:47:35,678 --> 00:47:37,376 is extraordinary to me. 564 00:47:37,506 --> 00:47:38,856 And I don't even know if it's conscious. 565 00:47:38,986 --> 00:47:42,511 It probably isn't even a conscious thing. 566 00:47:42,598 --> 00:47:45,340 I think of that moment in the van 567 00:47:45,427 --> 00:47:47,212 where the hitchhiker shows them 568 00:47:47,342 --> 00:47:49,127 the photographs of the meat. 569 00:47:49,214 --> 00:47:50,737 And the first photograph 570 00:47:50,868 --> 00:47:54,349 looks exactly like a Rembrandt painting. 571 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,438 And the second photograph, 572 00:47:57,135 --> 00:48:01,269 very heavily reminiscent, I think, of a Francis Bacon. 573 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,272 And it's-- There's Leatherface vibes there for me. 574 00:48:04,838 --> 00:48:07,972 There's no way that the Black Maria truck at the end is an accident. 575 00:48:08,624 --> 00:48:11,279 Black Maria was the name of Thomas Edison's film company. 576 00:48:11,366 --> 00:48:13,891 It was the very first film company. 577 00:48:15,153 --> 00:48:16,894 I feel like the hitchhiker 578 00:48:16,981 --> 00:48:19,026 when he takes his Polaroid photo and he's like... 579 00:48:19,113 --> 00:48:20,158 You know, it's, "[gasps] Look." 580 00:48:20,288 --> 00:48:21,986 The magic of photography, 581 00:48:22,116 --> 00:48:23,726 the magic of cinema. 582 00:48:23,857 --> 00:48:26,555 You took my picture. 583 00:48:26,686 --> 00:48:29,776 And that feeds back into this early film tradition 584 00:48:29,863 --> 00:48:32,474 where it's like, " I can't believe cinema's a thing." 585 00:48:32,561 --> 00:48:35,651 You know, I can't believe Texas Chain Saw Massacre 586 00:48:35,782 --> 00:48:37,131 is a thing. I can't believe it works. 587 00:48:37,218 --> 00:48:39,612 I can't believe this film pulls off what it does. 588 00:48:40,221 --> 00:48:41,483 Magic. 589 00:48:41,570 --> 00:48:44,660 Everything means something, I guess. 590 00:48:44,747 --> 00:48:47,620 That's my motto as a film critic. 591 00:48:47,707 --> 00:48:51,493 You know, film critics are often accused of reading too much into things. 592 00:48:51,580 --> 00:48:54,366 No art is ever created in a vacuum. 593 00:48:54,453 --> 00:48:58,370 Whether it's conscious or not, film soaks up the zeitgeist. 594 00:48:58,457 --> 00:49:00,807 It has to. It has to. 595 00:49:00,938 --> 00:49:03,288 It's extraordinary to me the parallels 596 00:49:03,418 --> 00:49:04,854 between Texas Chain Saw Massacre 597 00:49:04,985 --> 00:49:05,812 and a lot of Australian cinema in the 1970s. 598 00:49:07,335 --> 00:49:09,511 It's eerie because these are... 599 00:49:09,642 --> 00:49:13,211 These are places that are literally worlds apart. 600 00:49:15,953 --> 00:49:17,345 It's an odd thing to say, but I think 601 00:49:17,476 --> 00:49:21,001 we almost don't pay enough attention to Leatherface, 602 00:49:21,132 --> 00:49:24,309 which I know sounds strange because he's one of the great monsters of horror. 603 00:49:24,744 --> 00:49:26,876 Where are the kids? Where are they? Show me! 604 00:49:30,968 --> 00:49:32,186 It's a home invasion film 605 00:49:32,273 --> 00:49:33,666 from Leatherface's point of view. 606 00:49:33,753 --> 00:49:35,711 He's... He's really stressed out 607 00:49:35,842 --> 00:49:38,279 that these young people just turn up in his house. 608 00:49:38,410 --> 00:49:42,544 If you watch him as he moves from the kitchen to the window, 609 00:49:42,675 --> 00:49:44,633 he's fussing, like, he's flapping. 610 00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:46,940 He's like, "I don't know what to do with myself." 611 00:49:47,027 --> 00:49:49,551 It's such a, like, it's such an Italian, like, "Mamma mia," 612 00:49:49,682 --> 00:49:51,205 like, it's so gestured. 613 00:49:51,336 --> 00:49:53,729 It's gorgeous. 614 00:49:53,860 --> 00:49:57,690 It's very Buster Keaton, the way that he moves. 615 00:50:02,869 --> 00:50:05,176 It's silent cinema, you know? 616 00:50:05,306 --> 00:50:06,786 It's the legacy of the Black Maria. 617 00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:13,836 As much as my memories of the film are tethered to yellow, 618 00:50:13,967 --> 00:50:18,450 so much of the film's energy completely changes with the color red. 619 00:50:19,494 --> 00:50:21,105 When I think of Hieronymus Bosch, 620 00:50:21,235 --> 00:50:23,281 I think of the Hellmouth, 621 00:50:24,108 --> 00:50:28,938 you know, these big, sort of gaping red, terrifying voids 622 00:50:29,069 --> 00:50:33,291 that I think Texas Chain Saw makes quite literal. 623 00:50:42,343 --> 00:50:44,171 This idea of the Hellmouth, you know, 624 00:50:44,302 --> 00:50:46,130 taken from the Medieval art 625 00:50:46,260 --> 00:50:48,915 that was presented in paintings and in manuscripts 626 00:50:49,046 --> 00:50:51,570 as a literal mouth, like a big red mouth 627 00:50:51,657 --> 00:50:52,745 with, you know, people inside 628 00:50:52,832 --> 00:50:55,182 or devils with big red mouths. 629 00:50:55,704 --> 00:50:57,271 Those strange little art objects, 630 00:50:57,358 --> 00:51:00,100 the feathers and the bones, these weird little things, 631 00:51:00,231 --> 00:51:03,582 they're like they're straight from a Hieronymus Bosch painting. 632 00:51:03,669 --> 00:51:08,021 And it almost feels to me like Texas Chain Saw is riffing on that. 633 00:51:10,632 --> 00:51:12,895 The scene with Sally and the Cook, 634 00:51:12,982 --> 00:51:16,203 I think, is, um, is really pivotal. 635 00:51:16,334 --> 00:51:20,077 Sally's literally sandwiched between the cannibalistic grill 636 00:51:20,207 --> 00:51:21,600 and the saucers on the other side. 637 00:51:21,730 --> 00:51:23,341 I think that's really great. 638 00:51:23,819 --> 00:51:26,431 And Cook pushes her against a chopping block, 639 00:51:26,518 --> 00:51:29,086 you know, in case the cannibalism motif 640 00:51:29,173 --> 00:51:31,044 isn't kind of coming through already. 641 00:51:31,175 --> 00:51:32,785 And we have this incredible moment 642 00:51:32,915 --> 00:51:35,048 where he leaves to get the car. 643 00:51:35,179 --> 00:51:36,963 She thinks he's going to help. 644 00:51:37,050 --> 00:51:39,096 And the sound of the sizzling escalates 645 00:51:39,183 --> 00:51:41,359 and the sound of the radio escalates. 646 00:51:41,489 --> 00:51:44,318 Barometer is 29.9 and rising. 647 00:51:44,449 --> 00:51:45,885 Acting on a tip... 648 00:51:45,972 --> 00:51:48,453 You see the horror in her face 649 00:51:48,583 --> 00:51:51,978 when she puts it all together and realizes that what she's hearing 650 00:51:52,109 --> 00:51:54,850 and what she's seeing are connected. 651 00:51:54,937 --> 00:51:56,896 The way that that grill is presented 652 00:51:56,983 --> 00:52:00,552 is this terrifying red, gaping void. 653 00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:02,380 It is the entry to hell. 654 00:52:02,510 --> 00:52:04,033 ...there were instances in which only 655 00:52:04,164 --> 00:52:06,514 the heads and extremities were removed. 656 00:52:06,601 --> 00:52:09,213 And others in which only a hand or foot is removed. 657 00:52:09,343 --> 00:52:11,650 The remainder of the cadaver left intact. 658 00:52:38,067 --> 00:52:41,158 Somebody! Help me! 659 00:52:46,989 --> 00:52:49,731 Help me! 660 00:52:49,862 --> 00:52:51,516 Please! Please help me! 661 00:52:51,646 --> 00:52:52,691 Please! 662 00:53:07,009 --> 00:53:10,317 My first movie experience was a horror movie. 663 00:53:10,448 --> 00:53:12,014 It was called Bambi. 664 00:53:12,450 --> 00:53:14,408 I was probably 3 years old, 665 00:53:14,495 --> 00:53:17,368 and I remember Bambi's mother saying, 666 00:53:17,498 --> 00:53:19,065 "Man has been in the forest," 667 00:53:19,152 --> 00:53:21,807 and I just went, "Oh, my goodness." 668 00:53:21,937 --> 00:53:23,765 What happened, Mother? 669 00:53:23,896 --> 00:53:25,898 Why did we all run? 670 00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:30,729 Man... 671 00:53:31,947 --> 00:53:33,601 was in the forest. 672 00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:07,287 I've been a movie fan since forever. 673 00:54:07,896 --> 00:54:11,335 My first editor, Bill Thompson, said, uh, 674 00:54:11,465 --> 00:54:14,207 "Steve King has got a projector in his head." 675 00:54:14,338 --> 00:54:16,035 And there's some truth to that 676 00:54:16,122 --> 00:54:18,429 because I grew up on the films. 677 00:54:20,561 --> 00:54:25,349 I gravitated toward monster movies. 678 00:54:25,871 --> 00:54:28,265 My brother didn't care for them, 679 00:54:28,352 --> 00:54:32,356 and so I would usually find myself sitting by myself. 680 00:54:35,576 --> 00:54:37,143 I love the black-and-white movies. 681 00:54:39,101 --> 00:54:43,018 The idea that reality 682 00:54:43,105 --> 00:54:46,979 and the outrageously crazy 683 00:54:47,109 --> 00:54:51,113 could merge together in a film 684 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,681 and it would be realistic. 685 00:54:53,812 --> 00:54:55,944 What I'm thinking about in particular 686 00:54:56,031 --> 00:54:58,077 was Ray Harryhausen's work 687 00:54:58,164 --> 00:55:00,949 in Earth vs. the Flying Saucers, 688 00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,517 where you see a flying saucer 689 00:55:03,604 --> 00:55:07,826 crashed into the reflecting pool in Washington D.C. 690 00:55:07,956 --> 00:55:09,828 And you see another one that wobbles 691 00:55:09,958 --> 00:55:12,874 and then takes off the Washington Monument. 692 00:55:12,961 --> 00:55:14,833 And I thought, "I wanna do that." 693 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,185 I wanna bring the reality and the make-believe together 694 00:55:19,272 --> 00:55:23,711 in the same place so that you can't even tell the difference. 695 00:55:32,546 --> 00:55:33,678 Stay away! 696 00:55:37,029 --> 00:55:39,901 There are a lot of movies that are like that, 697 00:55:39,988 --> 00:55:43,078 that, uh, I just absolutely love. 698 00:55:43,731 --> 00:55:45,907 One of them is The Haunting of Hill House. 699 00:55:46,038 --> 00:55:50,129 That movie scared the living shit right out of me. 700 00:55:52,261 --> 00:55:55,003 It wasn't anything that you saw. 701 00:55:55,134 --> 00:55:57,310 It was what you thought you saw. 702 00:55:59,007 --> 00:56:03,621 You could see a door bellowing in and out like a lung. 703 00:56:06,363 --> 00:56:08,626 You could see a shape in the plaster 704 00:56:08,756 --> 00:56:11,803 that began to look like a face, that sort of thing. 705 00:56:11,933 --> 00:56:13,631 I... I just loved that. 706 00:56:14,632 --> 00:56:16,895 It's all suggested. 707 00:56:16,982 --> 00:56:18,723 It's all shadows. 708 00:56:20,594 --> 00:56:24,076 And there's a scene early on in The Exorcist 709 00:56:24,206 --> 00:56:27,296 where a clock just stops for no reason. 710 00:56:27,427 --> 00:56:30,474 It just tick, tick, tick, 711 00:56:30,604 --> 00:56:32,389 and then it just stops. 712 00:56:32,824 --> 00:56:35,740 That's a very unsettling moment. 713 00:56:35,827 --> 00:56:40,005 You have to be a real artist like Robert Wise 714 00:56:40,135 --> 00:56:43,617 in The Haunting of Hill House to do the thing 715 00:56:43,704 --> 00:56:46,533 where it's just almost suggested. 716 00:56:47,186 --> 00:56:50,929 There isn't really a lot of blood in Texas Chain Saw Massacre. 717 00:57:01,853 --> 00:57:05,857 I should say that I never saw Texas Chain Saw Massacre 718 00:57:05,944 --> 00:57:07,119 when it came out. 719 00:57:07,511 --> 00:57:11,993 I saw it in 1982 in Colorado. 720 00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:13,778 I was a young father, 721 00:57:13,908 --> 00:57:17,303 and I was writing to stay ahead of the bill collectors. 722 00:57:20,088 --> 00:57:22,439 I was in the theater almost by myself. 723 00:57:23,483 --> 00:57:25,006 And that's when a movie 724 00:57:25,137 --> 00:57:27,574 really has a tendency to work on you, you know, 725 00:57:27,661 --> 00:57:31,796 to get its cold little fingers under your skin. 726 00:57:32,449 --> 00:57:37,802 It had that kind of washed-out '70s look 727 00:57:37,889 --> 00:57:40,108 for want of a better term. 728 00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:43,198 You could tell that this print had been around for a while, 729 00:57:43,329 --> 00:57:47,464 and it's better for it because it just looks... 730 00:57:47,899 --> 00:57:49,944 It looks fucking real, 731 00:57:50,641 --> 00:57:54,035 and it works because there's no artifice about it. 732 00:57:54,166 --> 00:57:57,256 There's no, you know, kind of buildup. 733 00:57:57,386 --> 00:57:59,345 There's no character nuance. 734 00:57:59,432 --> 00:58:04,393 I mean, there are scenes in the graveyard. 735 00:58:04,524 --> 00:58:06,004 They're not extras. 736 00:58:06,134 --> 00:58:08,441 They're not Hollywood people at all. 737 00:58:08,528 --> 00:58:13,402 They look like they came from the nearest little Texas town. 738 00:58:13,925 --> 00:58:15,274 My granddaddy's buried here. 739 00:58:15,361 --> 00:58:17,189 Can we find out if anything happened to him? 740 00:58:17,276 --> 00:58:18,669 What's your granddaddy's name? 741 00:58:18,799 --> 00:58:20,061 Honey, that big heavy fella 742 00:58:20,148 --> 00:58:21,933 with that flashlight in his hand, 743 00:58:22,063 --> 00:58:23,151 that's the sheriff. 744 00:58:23,717 --> 00:58:26,633 You go tell him your granddaddy's buried in there. 745 00:58:26,764 --> 00:58:28,461 - He'll let you in. - Thank you. 746 00:58:28,548 --> 00:58:29,941 Say, fella, I'm gonna run off with your girl. 747 00:58:30,071 --> 00:58:31,420 You don't mind, do you? 748 00:58:31,508 --> 00:58:32,813 It's fantastic. 749 00:58:33,205 --> 00:58:37,949 And that adds to the horror, because you never feel 750 00:58:38,036 --> 00:58:41,343 that kind of barrier, 751 00:58:41,474 --> 00:58:43,911 that see-through barrier between, 752 00:58:43,998 --> 00:58:46,218 "Oh, well, this is just a movie." 753 00:58:46,871 --> 00:58:49,351 You wanna get about four or five men and a couple dogs? 754 00:58:49,438 --> 00:58:52,616 There's a house over here behind those trees. We wanna go check it out. 755 00:58:52,746 --> 00:58:55,227 Night of the Living Dead is the same way. 756 00:58:55,314 --> 00:58:57,359 You know, you don't know any of those people. 757 00:58:57,446 --> 00:58:59,797 They look like real people. 758 00:58:59,884 --> 00:59:02,408 The zombies look like real people. 759 00:59:06,020 --> 00:59:07,544 It just feels 760 00:59:08,588 --> 00:59:11,635 like you can't tell 761 00:59:12,244 --> 00:59:15,726 where fact ends and fiction begins. 762 00:59:28,260 --> 00:59:30,871 The thing that sticks in my mind, of course, 763 00:59:30,958 --> 00:59:34,353 was they're trying to kill the girl 764 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,269 and they want to use a sledgehammer on her, 765 00:59:37,399 --> 00:59:41,360 and they keep trying to give the old man 766 00:59:41,447 --> 00:59:45,233 who's just green, uh, to give him the hammer. 767 00:59:45,799 --> 00:59:49,411 And that's... That's a very Cormac McCarthy scene. 768 00:59:49,542 --> 00:59:53,024 In fact, in some ways, I see 769 00:59:53,154 --> 00:59:56,114 a book like Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy 770 00:59:56,244 --> 00:59:58,464 and Texas Chain Saw Massacre 771 00:59:58,812 --> 01:00:02,642 as almost like fraternal twins. 772 01:00:03,077 --> 01:00:06,994 The slaughterhouse, the idea about the bolt gun, 773 01:00:07,081 --> 01:00:09,606 it's a real Cormac McCarthy touch. 774 01:00:13,610 --> 01:00:15,742 - What is that for? - Would you... 775 01:00:15,873 --> 01:00:17,744 - Would you hold still, please? - The air gun. 776 01:00:17,875 --> 01:00:20,617 It shoots a bolt into their skull and then retracts it. 777 01:00:20,747 --> 01:00:23,141 It's just, "Boom." Goes, "Boom." 778 01:00:23,271 --> 01:00:24,446 Franklin, I like meat. 779 01:00:24,533 --> 01:00:26,187 Please change the subject. 780 01:00:26,318 --> 01:00:29,147 - Boom. - That's terrible. It's still going on. 781 01:00:29,234 --> 01:00:31,149 Josh! 782 01:00:33,891 --> 01:00:36,937 Josh, where are you? Tell me where you are! 783 01:00:37,024 --> 01:00:41,115 Texas Chain Saw has a lot in common 784 01:00:41,246 --> 01:00:43,422 with The Blair Witch Project. 785 01:00:43,509 --> 01:00:45,554 My memory is... 786 01:00:45,642 --> 01:00:48,470 I'd gotten hit by a van, and I was in the hospital, 787 01:00:48,601 --> 01:00:51,604 and I was in early recovery, and I was in a lot of pain, 788 01:00:51,691 --> 01:00:54,738 and I was taking a lot of dope for the pain, 789 01:00:54,825 --> 01:00:58,393 and my son came in, and my memory is 790 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,701 that he had a TV monitor 791 01:01:01,832 --> 01:01:06,227 hooked up to an actual tape machine. 792 01:01:06,314 --> 01:01:09,100 And we sat and we watched that movie. 793 01:01:09,187 --> 01:01:10,971 And the more we watched, 794 01:01:11,102 --> 01:01:14,366 the more these kids got into the woods and started to see 795 01:01:14,453 --> 01:01:18,065 these talismans hanging from the trees and everything. 796 01:01:18,152 --> 01:01:21,112 I got to a point where I said, "Joe, turn it off. 797 01:01:21,199 --> 01:01:22,722 I can't take anymore." 798 01:01:22,853 --> 01:01:25,769 And that's rare. 799 01:01:25,899 --> 01:01:28,510 I'm kind of case-hardened, but every now and then, 800 01:01:28,597 --> 01:01:29,860 one will get under your skin, 801 01:01:29,947 --> 01:01:33,037 and that one really got under my skin. 802 01:01:33,124 --> 01:01:37,476 Both of them were made on tiny budgets 803 01:01:37,563 --> 01:01:40,044 with small casts. 804 01:01:40,174 --> 01:01:44,613 And both of them have a look 805 01:01:44,744 --> 01:01:47,138 that's almost amateurish, 806 01:01:47,225 --> 01:01:49,053 but they both work... 807 01:01:51,359 --> 01:01:55,146 because you don't really see 808 01:01:55,276 --> 01:01:58,453 what's going on at first. 809 01:01:58,584 --> 01:02:00,629 I don't think in The Blair Witch Project 810 01:02:00,717 --> 01:02:03,981 you ever see exactly what's going on, 811 01:02:04,068 --> 01:02:09,160 because it all leads up to that final shot 812 01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:12,337 with the guy standing in the corner of the basement 813 01:02:12,424 --> 01:02:14,034 with his face to the wall. 814 01:02:14,165 --> 01:02:17,429 It's terrifying, but you can't even say why it's terrifying. 815 01:02:19,170 --> 01:02:21,912 Whereas in Texas Chain Saw, 816 01:02:22,042 --> 01:02:24,392 the brilliant thing that Tobe did 817 01:02:24,479 --> 01:02:29,702 was he begins with a number of Polaroid photographs 818 01:02:29,789 --> 01:02:33,532 that flash and are gone, flash and are gone. 819 01:02:33,619 --> 01:02:36,317 And we find out later that they're bodies 820 01:02:36,404 --> 01:02:37,841 that have been exhumed from a cemetery. 821 01:02:37,971 --> 01:02:40,278 But really beyond that... 822 01:02:40,365 --> 01:02:43,803 My old agent, Kirby McCauley, used to say, 823 01:02:43,890 --> 01:02:47,285 "It's all violins. It's all violins." 824 01:02:47,372 --> 01:02:49,461 You don't really see too much. 825 01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,987 I think that at some point, 826 01:02:54,118 --> 01:02:57,599 you have to put your cards down on the table. 827 01:02:57,730 --> 01:03:00,341 You have to show what's there. 828 01:03:00,428 --> 01:03:02,779 That's always been my philosophy. 829 01:03:09,046 --> 01:03:13,485 Horror is disintegrating into a pile of putrescence. 830 01:03:33,897 --> 01:03:39,076 Whereas terror is that ball bouncing down the stairs 831 01:03:39,206 --> 01:03:41,687 in The Changeling. 832 01:03:42,601 --> 01:03:45,691 It's a really scary moment. 833 01:03:47,475 --> 01:03:51,088 I've always felt that horror was easy, 834 01:03:51,218 --> 01:03:54,308 and at the same time 835 01:03:54,700 --> 01:03:57,007 terror is probably a finer emotion 836 01:03:57,094 --> 01:04:00,401 if you want to put an adjective on it. 837 01:04:00,532 --> 01:04:06,407 But I've tried to use terror in some of my stories, 838 01:04:06,538 --> 01:04:08,540 mostly The Shining, 839 01:04:08,627 --> 01:04:13,110 which is a story where you just see things 840 01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,503 out of the corner of your eye for quite a while 841 01:04:15,634 --> 01:04:17,549 before the horror really kicks in. 842 01:04:20,334 --> 01:04:25,644 The things that are primal and terrifying 843 01:04:26,166 --> 01:04:29,735 are the things that we know as children 844 01:04:29,822 --> 01:04:31,389 that we really, really fear. 845 01:04:31,476 --> 01:04:35,132 Like, when I was a kid, I can remember 846 01:04:35,219 --> 01:04:36,568 seeing frost on the window 847 01:04:36,698 --> 01:04:38,352 and thinking that it was the face 848 01:04:38,439 --> 01:04:42,661 of some crazy person who was out there trying to get in. 849 01:04:42,791 --> 01:04:46,708 And so, if I were to make a movie, 850 01:04:46,795 --> 01:04:48,928 and put frost on the window, 851 01:04:49,059 --> 01:04:51,626 and shoot it the way that Robert Wise 852 01:04:51,713 --> 01:04:55,282 shoots some of the plaster figurines 853 01:04:55,369 --> 01:04:58,155 in that bas-relief in that movie, 854 01:04:58,242 --> 01:04:59,591 I think it would work, 855 01:04:59,721 --> 01:05:02,550 because I think that most children 856 01:05:02,681 --> 01:05:06,119 they may not have seen frost on a window that looks like a face, 857 01:05:06,206 --> 01:05:10,994 but they've seen, like, dolls that are terrifying for some reason. 858 01:05:11,081 --> 01:05:15,041 That appear to be pleasant enough in the daytime, 859 01:05:15,172 --> 01:05:19,785 but once it's nighttime, they take on a different aspect. 860 01:05:19,872 --> 01:05:22,788 Tobe did some of that in Poltergeist. 861 01:05:32,493 --> 01:05:35,061 So, it can go either way. 862 01:05:35,192 --> 01:05:37,324 But you have to be a real artist 863 01:05:37,455 --> 01:05:41,807 to do the thing where it's just almost suggested. 864 01:05:58,563 --> 01:05:59,956 My boots aren't laced! 865 01:06:01,087 --> 01:06:03,698 Oh, my God, what the fuck is that? 866 01:06:03,785 --> 01:06:05,700 What the fuck is that? 867 01:06:09,095 --> 01:06:10,836 It is scary in a way, 868 01:06:10,967 --> 01:06:13,447 and Blair Witch is scary in a way 869 01:06:13,534 --> 01:06:18,975 that Hollywood movies don't seem to be able to replicate. 870 01:06:19,105 --> 01:06:24,241 And I think part of the reason is because there are too many people 871 01:06:24,328 --> 01:06:27,244 involved with the creative process in movies. 872 01:06:28,810 --> 01:06:31,248 I've run into producers who say, 873 01:06:31,335 --> 01:06:33,380 "Well, yes, I want to give you notes 874 01:06:33,511 --> 01:06:35,469 about this and that and the other thing." 875 01:06:35,556 --> 01:06:38,124 I hate the goddamn notes, okay? 876 01:06:38,211 --> 01:06:41,954 Because whatever they want to do, 877 01:06:42,041 --> 01:06:47,220 every step homogenizes the process a little tiny bit more. 878 01:06:47,655 --> 01:06:49,396 With Texas Chain Saw, 879 01:06:49,527 --> 01:06:51,355 Tobe didn't have to worry about any of that. 880 01:06:51,442 --> 01:06:55,098 He could do where the spirit moved him. 881 01:06:55,924 --> 01:07:00,712 So, you see that in small budget, independent movies. 882 01:07:02,714 --> 01:07:05,064 It's true with Evil Dead. 883 01:07:05,195 --> 01:07:08,676 Evil Dead is balls-to-the-wall horror. 884 01:07:08,807 --> 01:07:10,722 When I saw Evil Dead in Cannes, 885 01:07:10,809 --> 01:07:12,506 I went nuts for that movie. 886 01:07:12,593 --> 01:07:13,942 I thought it was really terrific, 887 01:07:14,073 --> 01:07:18,208 really scary, and really, really original. 888 01:07:25,867 --> 01:07:28,740 Oh, God. 889 01:07:31,395 --> 01:07:33,832 And I said to Sam when I finally met him, 890 01:07:33,919 --> 01:07:35,399 Sam Raimi, I said, 891 01:07:35,529 --> 01:07:37,662 "How did you do that steady cam thing?" 892 01:07:37,792 --> 01:07:42,319 I said, "Kubrick took all this special equipment 893 01:07:42,406 --> 01:07:44,451 and very expensive stuff 894 01:07:44,582 --> 01:07:48,064 to make what's essentially a very cold movie." 895 01:07:48,194 --> 01:07:52,372 And [laughs] Sam Raimi just kind of laughed and he said, 896 01:07:52,459 --> 01:07:55,593 "There were two people holding a two-by-four 897 01:07:55,723 --> 01:07:57,421 with the camera mounted on it, 898 01:07:57,551 --> 01:07:59,727 and they just ran like hell." 899 01:07:59,814 --> 01:08:03,209 That's the solution that wouldn't occur to somebody 900 01:08:03,296 --> 01:08:05,081 who's making a Hollywood movie. 901 01:08:07,605 --> 01:08:11,696 The merits of Texas Chain Saw Massacre. 902 01:08:11,826 --> 01:08:16,527 Well, I think it puts us all in touch with our primal fears, 903 01:08:16,614 --> 01:08:19,791 and it gives us a chance 904 01:08:19,878 --> 01:08:23,751 in a relatively harmless place 905 01:08:23,838 --> 01:08:30,149 to experience emotions that we ordinarily wouldn't feel. 906 01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,021 And I think those things are valuable. 907 01:08:33,152 --> 01:08:34,284 Not everybody does. 908 01:08:35,154 --> 01:08:36,808 Is that social? 909 01:08:36,895 --> 01:08:37,939 Is that social? 910 01:08:38,026 --> 01:08:40,246 I don't know if it really is. 911 01:08:40,377 --> 01:08:43,728 You know, that's a... 912 01:08:45,904 --> 01:08:47,471 That's a question of morality, 913 01:08:47,558 --> 01:08:52,824 and I'm not sure that when you deal with entertainment, 914 01:08:53,564 --> 01:08:56,871 those boundaries are necessarily the same. 915 01:08:56,958 --> 01:09:00,005 Speaking just for myself, 916 01:09:00,571 --> 01:09:06,533 I actually want to violate good taste. 917 01:09:06,664 --> 01:09:10,146 I think that that's where you're supposed to go, 918 01:09:10,233 --> 01:09:13,540 as somebody who writes horror fiction, 919 01:09:13,671 --> 01:09:16,326 or stuff that has to do with the macabre. 920 01:09:16,456 --> 01:09:20,112 I'm sure that, at the time, 921 01:09:20,243 --> 01:09:23,681 when Poe wrote that Tell-Tale Heart story, 922 01:09:23,811 --> 01:09:26,553 and he wrote about dismembering the body 923 01:09:26,684 --> 01:09:28,468 and putting it under the floorboards, 924 01:09:28,599 --> 01:09:32,080 there were people who went, "That's too far, that's too far." 925 01:09:32,168 --> 01:09:35,040 Well, you're supposed to go too far. 926 01:09:35,171 --> 01:09:40,045 I think that when it comes to movies, 927 01:09:40,132 --> 01:09:43,309 the taste and conscience side of it 928 01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:45,746 belongs not with the filmmaker 929 01:09:45,877 --> 01:09:49,576 but with the people who do the rating for the films. 930 01:09:49,663 --> 01:09:55,191 And I think that their tastes and their ratings are very plastic. 931 01:09:57,410 --> 01:09:59,064 The swearing, Paul. 932 01:10:01,327 --> 01:10:02,894 There, I said it. 933 01:10:03,982 --> 01:10:06,463 Yeah? The profanity bothers you? 934 01:10:06,593 --> 01:10:09,161 It has no nobility. 935 01:10:09,292 --> 01:10:10,771 For instance, you know, 936 01:10:10,858 --> 01:10:15,167 you can see a movie where Godzilla stomps a city 937 01:10:15,254 --> 01:10:17,169 and it will get a PG-13 rating. 938 01:10:17,256 --> 01:10:21,521 And as long as you don't show dismembered bodies, 939 01:10:21,608 --> 01:10:23,262 it's all right. 940 01:10:23,393 --> 01:10:25,046 But when you draw back a little bit 941 01:10:25,177 --> 01:10:27,832 and you think about it, there are thousands of people 942 01:10:27,919 --> 01:10:33,446 that are being killed by movies like Godzilla, 943 01:10:33,577 --> 01:10:36,884 or Marvel pictures with supervillains 944 01:10:37,015 --> 01:10:38,799 that lay waste to huge cities. 945 01:10:38,930 --> 01:10:40,975 We just don't see them. 946 01:10:45,241 --> 01:10:49,201 Sam Peckinpah once said, 947 01:10:49,332 --> 01:10:51,072 "There's nothing more pornographic 948 01:10:51,159 --> 01:10:53,249 than a Hopalong Cassidy movie 949 01:10:53,379 --> 01:10:55,990 where you go 'pow', like that, 950 01:10:56,077 --> 01:10:59,385 and the guy goes 'Oh' like this and he falls down." 951 01:10:59,472 --> 01:11:03,563 There's no blood, there's no mess, there's nothing like that. 952 01:11:03,650 --> 01:11:04,999 It's very sanitized. 953 01:11:05,086 --> 01:11:08,916 He just goes, "Oh, God." Like that. 954 01:11:09,003 --> 01:11:12,224 He doesn't say "Oh, God," because that wasn't allowed. 955 01:11:12,311 --> 01:11:14,792 But Peckinpah said, 956 01:11:14,922 --> 01:11:18,317 "I'm gonna actually show what happens," 957 01:11:18,448 --> 01:11:21,059 so that in a movie like Straw Dogs 958 01:11:21,189 --> 01:11:23,670 or The Wild Bunch, 959 01:11:23,757 --> 01:11:28,806 you see what happens to the people who are shot. 960 01:11:28,936 --> 01:11:30,111 There's blood. 961 01:11:30,242 --> 01:11:32,592 He even shows it in slow motion. 962 01:11:32,897 --> 01:11:36,596 So, yeah, morality and movies, 963 01:11:36,683 --> 01:11:39,338 morality and art, 964 01:11:39,425 --> 01:11:41,471 I don't think they really go together. 965 01:11:41,558 --> 01:11:44,300 Somebody else has got to decide that. 966 01:11:44,952 --> 01:11:49,783 You can't ask Tobe what he thinks about taste and conscience, 967 01:11:49,870 --> 01:11:55,528 because Tobe is gone to the great reward in the sky. 968 01:11:55,615 --> 01:11:58,270 If you asked me, I would say 969 01:11:58,401 --> 01:12:03,580 he never thought about taste and conscience in the least bit 970 01:12:03,667 --> 01:12:05,321 when he made that movie. 971 01:12:07,323 --> 01:12:12,110 You never know what boundaries are gonna be violated, 972 01:12:12,197 --> 01:12:13,459 because that's what it's about, 973 01:12:13,590 --> 01:12:15,766 it's an outlaw genre, really. 974 01:12:15,896 --> 01:12:17,333 And it always has been. 975 01:12:19,900 --> 01:12:22,468 You can't ever get comfortable. 976 01:12:22,599 --> 01:12:27,212 And that is the artist's job, to make you uncomfortable. 977 01:12:27,865 --> 01:12:32,739 And I think that there's a great gun culture in this country 978 01:12:32,826 --> 01:12:37,135 that's partially fueled by movies like Death Wish. 979 01:12:37,701 --> 01:12:41,269 The difference between a movie like Death Wish 980 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:43,533 and a movie like Texas Chain Saw Massacre 981 01:12:43,620 --> 01:12:46,100 is you don't really expect 982 01:12:46,231 --> 01:12:50,322 some impressionable 18- or 19-year-old 983 01:12:50,453 --> 01:12:53,760 to go out and buy a chainsaw and start cutting people up, 984 01:12:53,847 --> 01:12:57,024 whereas somebody who saw Death Wish 985 01:12:57,111 --> 01:13:01,855 might very well say, "Yeah, that's a pretty good idea. 986 01:13:01,986 --> 01:13:04,162 Never mind the movie, fuck that. 987 01:13:04,292 --> 01:13:08,296 Let's go out and shoot a bunch of drug pushers or something." 988 01:13:08,384 --> 01:13:10,647 You have to be careful about that. 989 01:13:10,777 --> 01:13:14,868 Now, I have a book called Rage that was published. 990 01:13:14,999 --> 01:13:18,959 It was written halfway through senior year in high school, 991 01:13:19,090 --> 01:13:22,136 and it was about this kid, Charlie Decker, 992 01:13:22,223 --> 01:13:24,748 who comes in and shoots his teacher 993 01:13:24,878 --> 01:13:27,620 and holds his class hostage with a gun. 994 01:13:27,751 --> 01:13:32,799 And it gets the class sort of, like, on his side, 995 01:13:32,930 --> 01:13:36,760 and then, later on, there was a shooter in Oregon 996 01:13:36,847 --> 01:13:39,937 and he shot three or four kids 997 01:13:40,024 --> 01:13:42,766 and that book was found in his locker, 998 01:13:42,896 --> 01:13:44,768 and there were a couple of other cases. 999 01:13:44,855 --> 01:13:47,292 And I said, 1000 01:13:47,379 --> 01:13:49,337 "This might actually be an accelerant." 1001 01:13:49,425 --> 01:13:51,122 And I pulled the book, 1002 01:13:51,209 --> 01:13:54,908 because I don't want to think of myself 1003 01:13:55,039 --> 01:13:56,954 as partially responsible for that. 1004 01:13:57,041 --> 01:14:00,348 It was written at a time when school shootings were unheard of. 1005 01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:03,047 That's my only defense, and it isn't a good one. 1006 01:14:06,790 --> 01:14:09,140 Seventy-four, November, take nine. 1007 01:14:09,227 --> 01:14:11,577 I admire this movie so much, 1008 01:14:11,664 --> 01:14:14,928 and it was made for, 1009 01:14:15,015 --> 01:14:16,974 you know, chump change, really. 1010 01:14:17,104 --> 01:14:17,975 It's amazing. 1011 01:14:18,671 --> 01:14:20,238 And Tobe was young 1012 01:14:20,368 --> 01:14:22,196 when he made this movie, too, 1013 01:14:22,327 --> 01:14:25,591 because you don't know at that point 1014 01:14:25,678 --> 01:14:28,420 that you can't do certain things. 1015 01:14:28,507 --> 01:14:30,727 So, everything is on the table. 1016 01:14:30,857 --> 01:14:33,251 It's a fantastic thing. 1017 01:14:33,773 --> 01:14:36,646 It's a kind of a classic feel to it, 1018 01:14:36,776 --> 01:14:40,650 a classic, primal, horror movie feel. 1019 01:14:44,262 --> 01:14:49,049 Man, the movie is like fucking less than an hour and a half long. 1020 01:14:49,136 --> 01:14:50,573 It's almost a short subject. 1021 01:14:50,660 --> 01:14:53,489 It really gets in there. 1022 01:14:53,619 --> 01:14:56,013 It's like a Beatles song, in a sense. 1023 01:14:56,143 --> 01:14:57,971 The archetypal Beatles song 1024 01:14:58,058 --> 01:15:00,147 would be like, "She Loves You," 1025 01:15:00,278 --> 01:15:03,020 or "I Wanna Hold Your Hand." 1026 01:15:03,150 --> 01:15:05,283 Two minutes and 17 seconds, 1027 01:15:05,370 --> 01:15:07,851 gets in, does its business, done. 1028 01:15:10,593 --> 01:15:13,552 There's no fat, there's nothing. 1029 01:15:13,639 --> 01:15:17,034 So, yeah, I would say that it's timeless. 1030 01:15:18,078 --> 01:15:19,776 And you can't say... 1031 01:15:19,863 --> 01:15:22,822 You can't say it's part of the zeitgeist, 1032 01:15:22,953 --> 01:15:24,955 because it's so early, you know. 1033 01:15:25,085 --> 01:15:30,874 It feels like, almost like... the zeitgeist came later. 1034 01:15:30,961 --> 01:15:32,049 Do you see what I'm saying? 1035 01:15:33,529 --> 01:15:37,663 That it's like... Just its own thing. 1036 01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:41,928 I read somewhere that Texas Chain Saw Massacre 1037 01:15:42,059 --> 01:15:47,717 is the only movie about psychotics that was made by a psychotic. 1038 01:15:47,804 --> 01:15:51,634 And it does have some of that feeling to it. 1039 01:15:52,417 --> 01:15:56,682 I worked with Tobe a little bit on Sleepwalkers, 1040 01:15:56,769 --> 01:16:01,687 and Tobe was just this soft-spoken, nice man, 1041 01:16:01,774 --> 01:16:04,516 and quite handsome. 1042 01:16:04,647 --> 01:16:06,649 And he had his lines down pat. 1043 01:16:06,779 --> 01:16:09,347 Hey, buddy, buddy. 1044 01:16:09,434 --> 01:16:10,609 I ain't taking the rap on this. 1045 01:16:10,696 --> 01:16:12,132 I lock this place up every night. 1046 01:16:12,263 --> 01:16:14,352 It's not my fault if every pervert, weirdo-- 1047 01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:16,833 Don't talk to me, go to talk to someone in charge. 1048 01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:18,965 I'm busy. 1049 01:16:19,096 --> 01:16:21,925 And I didn't get a real chance to talk to him, 1050 01:16:22,012 --> 01:16:23,796 but my idea about him was, 1051 01:16:23,883 --> 01:16:27,495 he's like the rest of us that do this for a living. 1052 01:16:27,583 --> 01:16:29,672 He puts on his normal face 1053 01:16:29,759 --> 01:16:32,022 and he comes out and he does his job. 1054 01:16:32,109 --> 01:16:33,371 And I'm the same way. 1055 01:16:33,458 --> 01:16:34,764 I wear a normal mask 1056 01:16:34,894 --> 01:16:36,853 when I'm doing these things, 1057 01:16:36,940 --> 01:16:40,726 and then I turn into somebody else 1058 01:16:40,813 --> 01:16:43,207 when I'm writing something that's really scary. 1059 01:16:43,294 --> 01:16:46,384 And there's always a kind of a smile on my face 1060 01:16:46,514 --> 01:16:49,474 because I'm thinking to myself, "I'm gonna getcha." 1061 01:16:55,872 --> 01:17:01,921 No! No! No! No! No! 1062 01:17:02,008 --> 01:17:04,445 No, please, no! 1063 01:17:04,532 --> 01:17:07,623 Please, please, please, no! 1064 01:17:19,547 --> 01:17:21,506 No! 1065 01:17:53,494 --> 01:17:55,409 The first time I got to see the movie 1066 01:17:55,496 --> 01:17:57,194 was on film actually, 1067 01:17:57,281 --> 01:17:59,065 at the Angelika Film Center. 1068 01:17:59,152 --> 01:18:00,588 I was about 19. 1069 01:18:00,719 --> 01:18:03,722 I was probably in the fourth or fifth row. 1070 01:18:03,853 --> 01:18:07,465 And I remember walking out of that theater 1071 01:18:07,595 --> 01:18:10,773 feeling like I had never seen 1072 01:18:10,860 --> 01:18:16,387 such a legitimately terrifying vision of the world. 1073 01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,176 I didn't understand that the movie 1074 01:18:23,307 --> 01:18:24,830 was going to affect me 1075 01:18:24,917 --> 01:18:29,313 the way a great work of art can affect you. 1076 01:18:29,443 --> 01:18:36,363 And to see a movie that had this grindhouse kind of reputation, 1077 01:18:36,886 --> 01:18:41,455 and then to recognize it as an American masterpiece 1078 01:18:41,542 --> 01:18:43,631 was just this really interesting, 1079 01:18:43,719 --> 01:18:47,897 disjunctive experience for me as a young artist. 1080 01:18:48,549 --> 01:18:52,989 I feel like we are watching this incredible depiction 1081 01:18:53,119 --> 01:18:55,992 of multiple populations 1082 01:18:56,079 --> 01:18:58,646 that feel entitled to a way of life. 1083 01:18:59,038 --> 01:19:02,738 You don't want to go fooling around on other folks' property. 1084 01:19:02,825 --> 01:19:05,697 Some folks don't like it, and they don't mind showing you. 1085 01:19:05,828 --> 01:19:07,743 Oh, my father owns it. 1086 01:19:07,873 --> 01:19:10,310 - That's your daddy's place, huh? - Yeah. 1087 01:19:10,441 --> 01:19:13,357 Whether it's the kids in a van 1088 01:19:13,487 --> 01:19:18,710 who want to see an old home that's in their family... 1089 01:19:18,797 --> 01:19:21,278 They already have a legacy of owning property. 1090 01:19:21,365 --> 01:19:25,021 They have the legacy of having a car and taking a vacation, 1091 01:19:25,151 --> 01:19:27,110 road-tripping together. 1092 01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:30,766 ...or the nightmare family they run into 1093 01:19:30,896 --> 01:19:34,465 and are tragically going to collide with. 1094 01:19:41,515 --> 01:19:47,957 That family is sort of the other side of the coin, 1095 01:19:48,044 --> 01:19:51,047 of this depiction of an American family 1096 01:19:51,134 --> 01:19:53,701 in which their industry has been taken away, 1097 01:19:53,789 --> 01:19:56,269 their livelihood has been taken away. 1098 01:19:56,835 --> 01:20:01,666 And yet, there is a sense that they are owed 1099 01:20:01,797 --> 01:20:05,235 their jobs back as professional killers 1100 01:20:05,931 --> 01:20:08,281 and good killers. 1101 01:20:08,368 --> 01:20:10,806 To watch the dinner scene again 1102 01:20:10,936 --> 01:20:14,722 in the very quiet privacy of my own home, 1103 01:20:14,810 --> 01:20:17,116 where I'm certain my dog 1104 01:20:17,247 --> 01:20:20,816 thought something terrible was happening in the other room, 1105 01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:25,733 I was really struck by the depiction 1106 01:20:25,864 --> 01:20:29,781 of, first of all, this idea of the patriarchy. 1107 01:20:29,912 --> 01:20:31,609 I won't have this. 1108 01:20:31,696 --> 01:20:35,091 It brings up so many complicated feelings as you're watching, 1109 01:20:35,178 --> 01:20:37,354 because on the face of it 1110 01:20:37,441 --> 01:20:41,140 what's happening is offensively violent, 1111 01:20:41,227 --> 01:20:42,838 offensively grisly, 1112 01:20:42,925 --> 01:20:46,319 and yet it has this quality of high comedy, 1113 01:20:46,406 --> 01:20:50,889 because it really is so revealed as base and pathetic. 1114 01:20:50,976 --> 01:20:53,631 They, as a family, are so pathetic. 1115 01:20:53,718 --> 01:20:55,285 He's just a cook. 1116 01:20:56,373 --> 01:20:59,071 Shut up, you bitch hog. 1117 01:21:00,812 --> 01:21:03,206 Me and Leatherface do all the work. 1118 01:21:03,336 --> 01:21:05,425 He don't like it, ain't that right? 1119 01:21:05,512 --> 01:21:06,731 You're just the cook. 1120 01:21:06,862 --> 01:21:08,559 Shut your mouth! 1121 01:21:09,821 --> 01:21:12,650 You don't understand nothing. 1122 01:21:12,737 --> 01:21:14,913 I cannot help but watch the movie 1123 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:18,395 and feel some very uncomfortable sympathy 1124 01:21:18,482 --> 01:21:21,964 for those characters, and deep sadness. 1125 01:21:22,094 --> 01:21:25,097 When they're talking to Sally at the dinner table, 1126 01:21:25,184 --> 01:21:29,058 it's the saddest, scariest depiction of masculinity 1127 01:21:29,188 --> 01:21:32,061 I think that might exist on film. 1128 01:21:32,191 --> 01:21:36,717 And of a broken masculinity. 1129 01:21:39,329 --> 01:21:42,636 Leatherface is a child. 1130 01:21:42,767 --> 01:21:46,597 And the chainsaw itself is just another prop 1131 01:21:46,684 --> 01:21:49,730 in a role he's trying to find a place 1132 01:21:49,817 --> 01:21:52,820 in the production to play. 1133 01:21:52,908 --> 01:21:56,259 Like, he's in a family with no role, 1134 01:21:56,389 --> 01:22:02,439 and that has made him completely insane. 1135 01:22:03,396 --> 01:22:05,050 Howdy. 1136 01:22:05,137 --> 01:22:08,271 Want to take off the mask, huh? 1137 01:22:09,315 --> 01:22:11,317 No? Okay. All right. 1138 01:22:11,448 --> 01:22:17,149 And so, to see human monsters like this, 1139 01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:21,153 it's actually evoking, I think, the feelings 1140 01:22:21,284 --> 01:22:25,462 that a lot of older horror classics, 1141 01:22:25,592 --> 01:22:27,812 I think particularly of Frankenstein, 1142 01:22:27,899 --> 01:22:31,250 where that monster is the product 1143 01:22:31,337 --> 01:22:32,904 of something larger, 1144 01:22:32,991 --> 01:22:36,908 something far more diabolical and fucked up. 1145 01:22:42,261 --> 01:22:44,655 I can't look at Leatherface 1146 01:22:44,785 --> 01:22:48,441 and feel like he's simply a monster. 1147 01:22:48,572 --> 01:22:52,576 He is a part of us. 1148 01:22:53,229 --> 01:22:57,668 And for that reason, I can't reject him out of hand. 1149 01:22:57,755 --> 01:23:02,716 There's something about this family's 1150 01:23:03,326 --> 01:23:06,503 inability to modernize that is both, like, 1151 01:23:06,633 --> 01:23:12,030 incredibly touching and maddening, 1152 01:23:12,117 --> 01:23:15,251 because they are stuck in an America 1153 01:23:15,338 --> 01:23:17,731 that doesn't exist for them anymore, 1154 01:23:17,818 --> 01:23:19,516 and it's made them insane. 1155 01:23:19,603 --> 01:23:21,953 And I feel like that's something that 1156 01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:25,609 Tobe Hooper and Kim Henkel were investigating. 1157 01:23:25,739 --> 01:23:29,265 What do you do when you take a person's livelihood away? 1158 01:23:29,352 --> 01:23:31,658 No matter what you think of their livelihood. 1159 01:23:32,094 --> 01:23:34,531 And I think in a funny way, 1160 01:23:36,489 --> 01:23:39,666 the monster family and the victim family 1161 01:23:39,753 --> 01:23:44,236 are incredibly entwined in their identity, in a way, 1162 01:23:44,323 --> 01:23:48,110 and in their expectation of what America owes them, 1163 01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:51,765 and what the promise of the American dream really is. 1164 01:23:51,852 --> 01:23:54,246 Didn't you say there's a swimming hole around here? 1165 01:23:54,333 --> 01:23:56,944 Yeah. 1166 01:23:57,075 --> 01:23:59,208 Well, Pam and I'd like to go swimming, man. 1167 01:24:01,862 --> 01:24:05,736 Uh, there used to be a trail down between those two old sheds. 1168 01:24:07,085 --> 01:24:09,435 Come on, we'll find it. 1169 01:24:09,957 --> 01:24:13,135 This must be it. 1170 01:24:13,265 --> 01:24:16,834 Perhaps the bigger nightmare of the movie 1171 01:24:16,921 --> 01:24:19,402 is that it didn't exist at all. 1172 01:24:24,276 --> 01:24:27,845 I feel like watching the movie 50 years on, 1173 01:24:27,932 --> 01:24:33,590 it is as if we are witnessing the young artist Tobe Hooper 1174 01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,462 looking into the future of America. 1175 01:24:36,549 --> 01:24:41,511 And he is imagining a world on fire. 1176 01:24:41,641 --> 01:24:44,644 He is imagining a level of American violence 1177 01:24:44,775 --> 01:24:49,171 that seems to be unprecedented, day after day. 1178 01:24:49,301 --> 01:24:53,262 He's seeing a depiction of community relationships 1179 01:24:53,349 --> 01:24:58,093 that have completely disintegrated, and... 1180 01:24:58,615 --> 01:25:00,834 It's like the movie is evergreen, 1181 01:25:00,921 --> 01:25:03,402 so sadly, for Americans, 1182 01:25:03,533 --> 01:25:06,013 because it feels relevant still, 1183 01:25:06,101 --> 01:25:08,320 even strangely more relevant to me now. 1184 01:25:08,407 --> 01:25:11,193 Health officials in San Francisco reluctantly admit 1185 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:13,543 they may have a cholera epidemic on their hands. 1186 01:25:13,630 --> 01:25:18,243 Some 40 cases of the highly infectious disease have been confirmed. 1187 01:25:18,374 --> 01:25:21,420 And he sets it all up in those opening minutes 1188 01:25:21,507 --> 01:25:24,075 with the bad news 1189 01:25:24,206 --> 01:25:26,860 that could be the bad news I'm listening to 1190 01:25:26,991 --> 01:25:30,429 on my drive to talk to you today, 50 years on. 1191 01:25:30,516 --> 01:25:33,867 I mean, it's an uncanny kind of prescience. 1192 01:25:33,954 --> 01:25:39,612 By putting the date at the beginning of a movie like this or like Psycho, 1193 01:25:39,699 --> 01:25:42,833 instead of making it more real, 1194 01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:45,662 what it does is it makes it timeless. 1195 01:25:53,887 --> 01:26:00,024 In planting this concept of specificity for the audience, 1196 01:26:00,111 --> 01:26:03,506 a day that something terrible happened, 1197 01:26:03,636 --> 01:26:06,204 for which and to which we can apply 1198 01:26:06,335 --> 01:26:09,251 all kinds of memories of our own. 1199 01:26:09,338 --> 01:26:12,515 It's like Texas Chain Saw Massacre is saying, 1200 01:26:12,645 --> 01:26:18,173 "Well, this film is going to now enter 1201 01:26:18,303 --> 01:26:20,697 that pantheon of memory for you 1202 01:26:20,827 --> 01:26:23,569 and will be burned in your memory forever." 1203 01:26:23,656 --> 01:26:29,184 It's like he's branding the audience with the time. 1204 01:26:29,314 --> 01:26:31,360 The date is very powerful to me. 1205 01:26:31,490 --> 01:26:35,102 Um, August 18th is the day my brother died. 1206 01:26:35,233 --> 01:26:38,715 And I feel like I know... 1207 01:26:39,324 --> 01:26:42,371 I just feel like that date visits me, uh, 1208 01:26:42,501 --> 01:26:46,766 in this interesting kind of cosmic way. 1209 01:26:46,897 --> 01:26:49,378 And, um... 1210 01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:53,773 It's just a strange, strange thing. 1211 01:26:53,860 --> 01:26:55,384 Strange. 1212 01:26:55,514 --> 01:26:57,516 When malefic planets are in retrograde... 1213 01:26:57,647 --> 01:26:59,344 And Saturn's malefic, okay. 1214 01:26:59,431 --> 01:27:01,955 ...their malefice is increased. 1215 01:27:02,086 --> 01:27:05,307 The depiction of and the conversation around 1216 01:27:05,437 --> 01:27:08,788 the planetary alignments on an astrological level 1217 01:27:08,875 --> 01:27:11,356 along with the constant reference 1218 01:27:11,443 --> 01:27:14,968 to the sun and the moon visually in the language of the film 1219 01:27:15,099 --> 01:27:18,755 to me is part of that bigger strategy 1220 01:27:18,842 --> 01:27:21,453 that Tobe Hooper was employing 1221 01:27:21,584 --> 01:27:26,676 that seemed to suggest something almost mythic 1222 01:27:26,763 --> 01:27:29,287 about what we were about to watch, 1223 01:27:29,418 --> 01:27:31,942 that it's not small-town America. 1224 01:27:32,029 --> 01:27:37,295 It's a depiction of primal human animus, 1225 01:27:37,426 --> 01:27:42,039 primal human urges and disappointments 1226 01:27:42,126 --> 01:27:44,781 that can only end in catastrophe. 1227 01:27:44,911 --> 01:27:47,218 But it's as if he's saying, you know, 1228 01:27:47,349 --> 01:27:49,873 this is the landscape of myth. 1229 01:27:58,969 --> 01:28:02,233 And so, we are witnessing that 1230 01:28:02,364 --> 01:28:07,151 getting acted out upon these terribly unlucky characters. 1231 01:28:07,238 --> 01:28:11,286 But then we're also witnessing this violence being perpetrated 1232 01:28:11,416 --> 01:28:15,464 by characters who themselves also seem terribly unlucky. 1233 01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,558 The film which you are about to see 1234 01:28:22,645 --> 01:28:26,126 is an account of the tragedy which befell a group of five youths... 1235 01:28:26,213 --> 01:28:29,521 I mean, I always forget about the opening crawl, 1236 01:28:29,608 --> 01:28:33,656 and then to see it, it's like what Hooper is preparing us for 1237 01:28:33,743 --> 01:28:36,180 is the American nightmare. 1238 01:28:36,267 --> 01:28:40,967 And then he's titillating us by saying, "And it's a true story," 1239 01:28:41,054 --> 01:28:45,015 which is its own kind of theatrical flourish of the film. 1240 01:28:45,102 --> 01:28:50,455 And then to be in that graveyard 1241 01:28:50,586 --> 01:28:55,199 and get those fast shock cuts. 1242 01:29:00,900 --> 01:29:02,946 ...this morning. Officers there discovered 1243 01:29:03,033 --> 01:29:05,427 what appeared to be a grisly work of art. 1244 01:29:05,557 --> 01:29:10,040 Along with this incredible tracking shot, 1245 01:29:10,127 --> 01:29:12,608 it's as if to me, Hooper, the filmmaker, 1246 01:29:12,695 --> 01:29:16,089 is announcing himself and saying, 1247 01:29:16,220 --> 01:29:20,833 "And now I present to you a grisly work of art." 1248 01:29:20,964 --> 01:29:22,487 Such an interesting question 1249 01:29:22,618 --> 01:29:29,494 to think about the role of beauty and poetry in art. 1250 01:29:30,234 --> 01:29:35,152 And this larger question perhaps about its necessity. 1251 01:29:36,675 --> 01:29:40,331 The feathers that fly through the air 1252 01:29:40,462 --> 01:29:44,814 as we watch characters crawling across a floor 1253 01:29:44,901 --> 01:29:49,558 to find a piece of furniture made out of bones. 1254 01:29:50,254 --> 01:29:54,389 It's so much like the thing that would bring a child 1255 01:29:54,476 --> 01:29:56,347 back to Grimms' Fairy Tales, 1256 01:29:56,478 --> 01:30:00,917 even if it meant they lost some sleep and had nightmares. 1257 01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:05,487 And I think that is the secret ingredient 1258 01:30:05,617 --> 01:30:08,707 to the film's brilliance, 1259 01:30:09,142 --> 01:30:11,797 is that he's not making something 1260 01:30:11,928 --> 01:30:14,800 that we can strictly look away from. 1261 01:30:15,366 --> 01:30:19,805 The final sequence of Texas Chain Saw on the highway, 1262 01:30:19,892 --> 01:30:23,635 it's a collision of competing ideas 1263 01:30:23,722 --> 01:30:28,945 about the American project as something hopeful, 1264 01:30:29,032 --> 01:30:31,774 optimistic, fair, 1265 01:30:31,904 --> 01:30:38,389 and then the madness of human impulse, 1266 01:30:38,476 --> 01:30:40,565 human instinct. 1267 01:30:40,696 --> 01:30:44,003 Hooper is saying, in my opinion, 1268 01:30:44,134 --> 01:30:47,267 "I'm not optimistic about America, 1269 01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:51,620 but I do believe beauty still has a place." 1270 01:31:08,550 --> 01:31:11,901 And that that idea that in other horror films, 1271 01:31:11,988 --> 01:31:17,123 the sun rises to put evil to bed. 1272 01:31:17,210 --> 01:31:20,126 I think, in Hooper's case, 1273 01:31:20,213 --> 01:31:24,000 he's saying the sun rises so that we may see evil better, 1274 01:31:24,130 --> 01:31:29,353 so that it's more legible to us. 1275 01:31:31,573 --> 01:31:32,791 I have a friend in San Francisco 1276 01:31:32,878 --> 01:31:35,402 - that you could stay with. - Really? 1277 01:31:35,490 --> 01:31:37,970 Eggshells is an interesting first film 1278 01:31:38,057 --> 01:31:44,063 because it's really clear that Tobe Hooper was interested 1279 01:31:44,194 --> 01:31:47,589 by American motifs. 1280 01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,770 The concept of the big old house. 1281 01:31:59,905 --> 01:32:02,386 The concept of the town square. 1282 01:32:05,824 --> 01:32:09,219 I think Eggshells displays 1283 01:32:09,654 --> 01:32:13,528 this really interesting sense of freedom. 1284 01:32:16,182 --> 01:32:17,619 Freedom with the camera, 1285 01:32:17,706 --> 01:32:20,752 freedom with the rhythms of the storytelling. 1286 01:32:20,839 --> 01:32:23,668 And it was sort of like a test run 1287 01:32:23,755 --> 01:32:26,323 for Texas Chain Saw Massacre, 1288 01:32:26,410 --> 01:32:31,546 which I think became a much more classically distilled story. 1289 01:32:31,633 --> 01:32:34,853 And then he took some of those stylistic flourishes 1290 01:32:34,984 --> 01:32:39,249 and really found his filmmaking voice, his visual language. 1291 01:32:41,643 --> 01:32:46,343 And there's something about this is America, right? 1292 01:32:46,430 --> 01:32:50,826 Like the plains, a sense of wide-open space, 1293 01:32:50,913 --> 01:32:52,567 a sense of possibility. 1294 01:32:52,697 --> 01:32:56,614 A sense of modernity is welcome here with this, you know, 1295 01:32:56,745 --> 01:33:00,009 vehicle slicing through the frame. 1296 01:33:00,096 --> 01:33:04,100 So, it's kind of playing on our romantic notions 1297 01:33:04,187 --> 01:33:06,581 of the American landscape. 1298 01:33:08,887 --> 01:33:10,106 Hello? 1299 01:33:10,236 --> 01:33:12,369 His obsession with doorways 1300 01:33:12,456 --> 01:33:15,938 and framing people in doorways, 1301 01:33:16,068 --> 01:33:19,115 it makes me think of Bergman. 1302 01:33:20,333 --> 01:33:23,162 It makes me think of Tarkovsky. 1303 01:33:33,172 --> 01:33:36,611 I feel like Hooper is right up there 1304 01:33:36,741 --> 01:33:41,528 with indelible images about characters 1305 01:33:41,659 --> 01:33:46,838 at a threshold from which walking through the door 1306 01:33:46,969 --> 01:33:51,147 ensures you will never return to your old life. 1307 01:33:51,234 --> 01:33:53,105 There's a sequence in Texas Chain Saw 1308 01:33:53,236 --> 01:33:58,415 that I watch and have to fight the urge to look away, 1309 01:33:58,545 --> 01:34:04,247 and also want to figure out exactly how it was achieved. 1310 01:34:04,377 --> 01:34:07,598 Which is the moment 1311 01:34:07,685 --> 01:34:13,648 that Leatherface takes Pam's barebacked body, 1312 01:34:13,735 --> 01:34:18,914 lifts it up onto that meat hook. 1313 01:34:19,871 --> 01:34:25,137 I'm sure there are cuts that allow for a trick of the eye, 1314 01:34:25,268 --> 01:34:27,749 but my experience of it is always, 1315 01:34:27,879 --> 01:34:32,928 this is one continuous nightmarish thing happening 1316 01:34:33,015 --> 01:34:37,410 and it feels so real. 1317 01:34:37,497 --> 01:34:42,502 It's so beautifully staged and framed 1318 01:34:42,633 --> 01:34:47,246 to set it up with the bare hook previous to that moment 1319 01:34:47,333 --> 01:34:49,248 so that you are really focused on it. 1320 01:34:49,379 --> 01:34:53,252 You really sense its potency in the frame. 1321 01:34:53,818 --> 01:34:56,038 I have that experience with other movies, 1322 01:34:56,168 --> 01:35:00,216 like Come and See, the Russian film. 1323 01:35:00,346 --> 01:35:03,045 There's a sense that what I'm watching 1324 01:35:03,175 --> 01:35:06,135 is a living, breathing nightmare. 1325 01:35:10,095 --> 01:35:14,404 What makes this movie an enduring masterpiece 1326 01:35:14,534 --> 01:35:17,973 is that its thesis seems to be 1327 01:35:18,060 --> 01:35:21,150 America is a madness, 1328 01:35:21,759 --> 01:35:25,807 and I want you to look at it and experience it. 1329 01:35:26,242 --> 01:35:31,856 And there's art that perhaps works 1330 01:35:31,987 --> 01:35:35,120 within a more polite setting, 1331 01:35:35,251 --> 01:35:37,862 but ultimately, I think most great art 1332 01:35:37,949 --> 01:35:42,301 is a punch in our complacent faces. 1333 01:35:42,388 --> 01:35:46,828 That movie expands my notion of what art even is. 1334 01:35:46,915 --> 01:35:51,136 It allows me permission 1335 01:35:51,223 --> 01:35:56,402 to make stories that feel maybe harder sometimes... 1336 01:35:59,101 --> 01:36:02,539 ...or more unpleasant. 1337 01:36:03,758 --> 01:36:05,498 Spit on it, spit on it! 1338 01:36:05,585 --> 01:36:06,935 - Fuck you. - Spit on it. 1339 01:36:10,199 --> 01:36:14,551 And still believe that there's a place for beauty. 1340 01:36:14,638 --> 01:36:16,553 There's a place for redemption. 1341 01:36:17,946 --> 01:36:20,513 I think Tobe Hooper wanted people 1342 01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:26,084 to walk out of that theater shaken and changed. 1343 01:36:26,215 --> 01:36:32,874 And he did that using the medium in a really sophisticated way. 1344 01:36:33,004 --> 01:36:37,966 He uses so much art and poetry in the filmmaking 1345 01:36:38,053 --> 01:36:41,012 that I would think many audience members 1346 01:36:41,143 --> 01:36:45,712 couldn't help but feel seen, spoken to, 1347 01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:48,759 provoked, and respected. 1348 01:36:48,890 --> 01:36:52,589 I can't think of a better mission as an artist, 1349 01:36:52,719 --> 01:36:59,639 you know, to make work that is attempting to see its audience 1350 01:37:00,249 --> 01:37:04,079 and make them see something bigger than just the mirror. 1351 01:37:05,428 --> 01:37:06,995 It's a hard movie to watch. 1352 01:37:07,082 --> 01:37:08,735 It's a hard movie to re-watch. 1353 01:37:08,866 --> 01:37:12,174 And I keep going back to it because it's worth it. 1354 01:37:12,304 --> 01:37:16,526 It has poetry... 1355 01:37:17,483 --> 01:37:18,833 beauty... 1356 01:37:18,963 --> 01:37:20,835 No, no, they didn't see me. 1357 01:37:21,270 --> 01:37:22,837 ...shock... 1358 01:37:23,794 --> 01:37:25,056 awe. 1359 01:37:25,143 --> 01:37:26,318 The remains of relatives 1360 01:37:26,405 --> 01:37:27,363 have been removed. 1361 01:37:27,450 --> 01:37:28,538 No suspects are in custody. 1362 01:37:29,234 --> 01:37:30,540 Tragedy. 1363 01:37:32,063 --> 01:37:36,676 It's as big an American film as any American classic. 1364 01:37:36,763 --> 01:37:39,549 And for that reason, I keep returning to it, 1365 01:37:39,679 --> 01:37:41,638 because it gives something back. 1366 01:37:46,512 --> 01:37:47,862 There's always more to see. 1367 01:37:50,038 --> 01:37:51,126 Sally? 1368 01:37:53,606 --> 01:37:54,956 - Sally-- - There's always 1369 01:37:55,086 --> 01:37:57,523 more subtlety and meaning 1370 01:37:57,654 --> 01:37:59,438 to glean from re-watching it. 1371 01:37:59,525 --> 01:38:01,310 Sally! 1372 01:38:05,314 --> 01:38:08,056 How lucky we are as cinephiles 1373 01:38:08,143 --> 01:38:12,495 to have Texas Chain Saw Massacre as an American statement.