1 00:00:15,432 --> 00:00:17,559 [producer] Okay, first question. 2 00:00:17,642 --> 00:00:19,728 Are you too rich? 3 00:00:21,730 --> 00:00:23,106 Well, it's a strange thing 4 00:00:24,566 --> 00:00:29,195 to have people worth, you know, a billion, ten billion, a hundred billion. 5 00:00:29,696 --> 00:00:34,117 It's such a mind-blowing amount of money relative to personal needs. 6 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:35,452 [quirky music playing] 7 00:00:35,535 --> 00:00:38,788 [Gates] I remember when I was young, I looked at that Forbes list, 8 00:00:39,414 --> 00:00:43,043 and it fascinated me just because understanding how society works, you know, 9 00:00:43,126 --> 00:00:46,838 is that real estate fortunes, banking fortunes. 10 00:00:46,921 --> 00:00:48,840 There's all these Wall Street people on there. 11 00:00:48,923 --> 00:00:50,467 Why is that such a source of wealth, 12 00:00:50,550 --> 00:00:53,344 and how much is the wealth very generational? 13 00:00:54,471 --> 00:00:56,765 I remember somebody saying to me, 14 00:00:56,848 --> 00:00:59,059 "Do you think you'll ever be on this list?" 15 00:00:59,726 --> 00:01:00,810 And I thought, "Well, 16 00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:04,439 you know, maybe software, the work I was doing, 17 00:01:04,522 --> 00:01:05,815 would get me onto that list." 18 00:01:05,899 --> 00:01:08,318 I didn't really think so in the early years, 19 00:01:08,401 --> 00:01:10,862 and then later that… that turned out to be wrong. 20 00:01:10,945 --> 00:01:13,615 [reporter 1] with 4.2 billion dollars, 21 00:01:13,698 --> 00:01:16,034 is the second-richest person in the country. 22 00:01:16,117 --> 00:01:17,744 [reporter 2] 23 00:01:17,827 --> 00:01:18,703 [music halts abruptly] 24 00:01:18,787 --> 00:01:21,164 [producer] So is that a "yes" or a "no"? 25 00:01:21,706 --> 00:01:22,665 [inhales] 26 00:01:22,749 --> 00:01:24,626 [opening theme music playing] 27 00:01:31,049 --> 00:01:32,675 [music fades] 28 00:01:32,759 --> 00:01:35,887 [inquisitive music playing] 29 00:01:37,305 --> 00:01:40,308 [Gates] Well, it's kind of wild that we do have billionaires. 30 00:01:40,934 --> 00:01:43,520 You know, it's a huge amount of wealth, 31 00:01:43,603 --> 00:01:46,606 which, you know, if you even tried to consume it, 32 00:01:46,689 --> 00:01:48,983 would be kind of absurd. 33 00:01:50,193 --> 00:01:55,406 You want that money to be given back to society, not just consumed. 34 00:01:56,825 --> 00:01:58,576 In a rich country like the US, 35 00:01:58,660 --> 00:02:03,039 the fact there's still deprivation says that our social safety net 36 00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:06,167 is not funded as well as we'd like it to be, 37 00:02:07,377 --> 00:02:11,965 but I'm not someone who thinks outlawing wealth above a certain size 38 00:02:12,048 --> 00:02:14,676 is the right way to go about it. 39 00:02:14,759 --> 00:02:15,885 But again, I'm… 40 00:02:15,969 --> 00:02:17,679 You know, I'm… I'm biased. 41 00:02:18,346 --> 00:02:21,724 Although, I understand why some people feel that way. 42 00:02:22,976 --> 00:02:25,562 You know, and so it's… it's… it's a good debate. 43 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,276 [man 1] When we see sprawling tent encampments 44 00:02:31,359 --> 00:02:33,278 on the sides of our highway, 45 00:02:34,404 --> 00:02:37,532 nursing uniforms slumping over from exhaustion on the subway, 46 00:02:38,408 --> 00:02:40,785 poor kids visiting food pantries, 47 00:02:41,452 --> 00:02:45,707 and I think the question we have to ask over and over and over again 48 00:02:45,790 --> 00:02:47,458 is, "Who benefits?" 49 00:02:47,542 --> 00:02:49,919 -[upbeat music playing] -[helicopter blades whirring] 50 00:02:50,003 --> 00:02:54,424 [Desmond] In America, there are winners because there are losers, 51 00:02:55,049 --> 00:02:58,636 and no one has won more than the ultrarich. 52 00:02:59,888 --> 00:03:04,601 The richest 1% of Americans own 40% of the nation's wealth. 53 00:03:05,101 --> 00:03:09,189 There are over 38 million Americans who can't afford basic necessities, 54 00:03:09,272 --> 00:03:12,275 so if America's poor founded a country, 55 00:03:12,358 --> 00:03:14,194 that country would be bigger than Australia. 56 00:03:14,277 --> 00:03:16,738 [upbeat music continues] 57 00:03:16,821 --> 00:03:19,908 A billion dollars is a thousand million dollars, 58 00:03:20,408 --> 00:03:24,996 and we have billionaires who have 200 billion. 59 00:03:25,079 --> 00:03:28,166 They have 200,000 million 60 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:34,631 while we have children who don't have any place to live. 61 00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:36,466 This is insane. 62 00:03:38,676 --> 00:03:43,556 Well, look, in a perfect world, I think billionaires don't exist. 63 00:03:44,432 --> 00:03:45,892 You could easily argue that 64 00:03:45,975 --> 00:03:48,937 the existence of a billionaire is a policy mistake, 65 00:03:49,854 --> 00:03:52,232 especially if you see what most billionaires do with it. 66 00:03:52,315 --> 00:03:55,235 [upbeat music playing] 67 00:03:55,318 --> 00:03:56,736 [toilet flushes] 68 00:03:56,819 --> 00:03:58,363 -[music halts abruptly] -Uh… 69 00:03:58,446 --> 00:03:59,864 But, anyway, 70 00:04:00,782 --> 00:04:04,494 we all know there are so many ways to exercise power with that wealth, 71 00:04:04,577 --> 00:04:06,663 to influence elections, and you name it. 72 00:04:07,664 --> 00:04:12,377 So if you create a society where there's so much wealth 73 00:04:12,460 --> 00:04:14,420 with so few people, then, of course, 74 00:04:14,504 --> 00:04:17,298 at some point, you can't really call that a democracy anymore. 75 00:04:17,382 --> 00:04:19,550 -[upbeat music continues] -[crowd cheering] 76 00:04:19,634 --> 00:04:22,929 [man 2] The people who think that we should just abolish billionaires, 77 00:04:23,012 --> 00:04:24,430 those people are wrong. 78 00:04:24,514 --> 00:04:27,517 Honestly, those transformative changes would probably wreck the economy 79 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,852 because it'd involve building a new economic system 80 00:04:29,936 --> 00:04:30,979 that we don't know how to build. 81 00:04:31,771 --> 00:04:34,857 People imagine that you'd create this egalitarian society, 82 00:04:34,941 --> 00:04:38,361 but when you look at societies that are a lot more egalitarian than us, 83 00:04:38,444 --> 00:04:39,487 they have billionaires, 84 00:04:39,570 --> 00:04:41,948 and sometimes they have quite a lot of billionaires. 85 00:04:42,031 --> 00:04:46,077 You have billionaires in Japan. You have billionaires in France. 86 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,454 You have billionaires in Scandinavia. 87 00:04:49,247 --> 00:04:51,416 There's, you know, how many billionaires in the world? 88 00:04:51,499 --> 00:04:53,001 It's not a big number of people. 89 00:04:54,002 --> 00:04:57,630 And you can say, "Yeah, having a billion dollars, that's kinda crazy," 90 00:04:58,131 --> 00:05:01,134 but you also have to realize that that's not the problem. 91 00:05:01,217 --> 00:05:03,344 That's a symptom of something amazing. 92 00:05:04,012 --> 00:05:05,221 It's the American dream. 93 00:05:05,722 --> 00:05:08,308 That's what makes America special. 94 00:05:08,391 --> 00:05:09,892 [tiles clack] 95 00:05:09,976 --> 00:05:13,021 [woman 1] I'll just do this, since we're talking about money. 96 00:05:13,104 --> 00:05:14,689 [Gates] All right. [inhales] 97 00:05:14,772 --> 00:05:17,066 I think that's only ten. Is that right? 98 00:05:18,151 --> 00:05:18,985 [tiles clack] 99 00:05:19,485 --> 00:05:21,738 [Gates] You know, our parents had us play lots of games. I… 100 00:05:21,821 --> 00:05:24,365 We're not, like, competitive about 101 00:05:24,907 --> 00:05:28,619 you know, comparing our… our work accomplishments with each other. 102 00:05:28,703 --> 00:05:31,205 -That'd be… That'd be really difficult. -[all laugh] 103 00:05:31,289 --> 00:05:32,665 [Macphee] You win. All right. 104 00:05:32,749 --> 00:05:38,379 But we're competitive in terms of just we play lots of family games. 105 00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:40,381 [Macphee] Remember when he was on top of the 400? 106 00:05:40,465 --> 00:05:42,342 -Isn't it the Forbes 500 now? -[Gates] 400. 107 00:05:42,425 --> 00:05:45,470 Then it was kinda this funny thing when it'd come out every year, 108 00:05:45,553 --> 00:05:48,514 "Is he still at the top? Is he still at the top? Is he still at the top? Oh." 109 00:05:48,598 --> 00:05:50,683 It was a matter of interest, and then it was, you know… 110 00:05:50,767 --> 00:05:53,978 That… That competitive nature that's in all of us was part of that too. 111 00:05:54,062 --> 00:05:56,105 -Like, "Okay, good. Still at the top." -[Blake laughs] 112 00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:58,608 Well, then I gave away enough money to avoid that problem. 113 00:05:58,691 --> 00:06:01,319 -He kept trying to get off the top. -[Macphee] You didn't like it. 114 00:06:01,402 --> 00:06:02,278 [Gates] Mm-mm. 115 00:06:02,362 --> 00:06:05,782 Yeah. It was part of the ethos of our family. 116 00:06:06,324 --> 00:06:11,412 I remember, Mom, as soon as you moved back to Seattle with Microsoft, 117 00:06:11,496 --> 00:06:14,499 one of the very early conversations she had with you was about, 118 00:06:14,582 --> 00:06:16,793 "Okay. How are you gonna give back to the community?" 119 00:06:17,377 --> 00:06:18,544 [Gates] I mean, yeah, at the… 120 00:06:18,628 --> 00:06:20,463 -What's it called? The bridal lunch. -[Blake] Yeah. 121 00:06:20,546 --> 00:06:22,340 Uh, you know, said to… 122 00:06:22,924 --> 00:06:24,008 Quoted, the, you know, 123 00:06:24,092 --> 00:06:27,011 "To whom much is given, much is expected," so… 124 00:06:27,095 --> 00:06:28,805 [contemplative music playing] 125 00:06:28,888 --> 00:06:32,433 [producer] You've talked a bit about how you wanna get off the billionaire's list. 126 00:06:32,517 --> 00:06:37,730 No, I… I'm not saying it's like some awful thing to be on the list. 127 00:06:38,314 --> 00:06:41,275 I'm just making it clear it's not a positive thing. 128 00:06:42,610 --> 00:06:44,195 I think the world would be better 129 00:06:44,278 --> 00:06:48,783 if billionaires voluntarily chose to give more money away. 130 00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:51,494 You know, if I'd never given any money away, 131 00:06:51,577 --> 00:06:54,497 I would have a lot more money than I have today. 132 00:06:57,583 --> 00:07:02,338 I've always thought of myself as a student trying to get to the bottom of things. 133 00:07:02,922 --> 00:07:04,966 [inquisitive music playing] 134 00:07:05,049 --> 00:07:06,926 [Gates] In the 1990s, 135 00:07:07,009 --> 00:07:10,721 as I was moving to be unbelievably wealthy, 136 00:07:11,222 --> 00:07:14,642 I was studying the great foundations. 137 00:07:15,226 --> 00:07:17,103 You know, what did Rockefeller do? 138 00:07:17,186 --> 00:07:21,941 You know, Carnegie talked about "To die rich is to die disgraced." 139 00:07:23,234 --> 00:07:29,365 It was in the year 2000 that I made the first gigantic 20-billion-dollar gift. 140 00:07:31,117 --> 00:07:35,913 You know, the foundation, as you walk in, says, "All lives have equal value," 141 00:07:35,997 --> 00:07:39,667 as the driving set of values for the work we do. 142 00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:43,421 Our biggest thing in the US will be education, 143 00:07:43,504 --> 00:07:46,382 you know, better curriculum, better teacher training. 144 00:07:47,216 --> 00:07:49,177 We also work in global health. 145 00:07:49,886 --> 00:07:51,429 They're very complex issues, 146 00:07:51,512 --> 00:07:55,933 but, you know, we were energized to take that over a billion a year 147 00:07:56,017 --> 00:07:57,935 and make sure it was… was well spent. 148 00:07:59,729 --> 00:08:04,567 I'm a big proponent that the wealthy should give back to reducing inequity, 149 00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:08,279 both in this country and in the entire world. 150 00:08:09,155 --> 00:08:13,826 We have enough wealth that we could do dramatically better. 151 00:08:15,077 --> 00:08:16,579 [cars passing by] 152 00:08:19,874 --> 00:08:22,084 [Gates] Well, I think we're both proud of the fact that 153 00:08:22,168 --> 00:08:25,296 the US bills itself as the land of equal opportunity, 154 00:08:25,379 --> 00:08:27,673 but as capitalism has developed, 155 00:08:27,757 --> 00:08:31,385 that equality hasn't been as strong as we might like to see. 156 00:08:31,469 --> 00:08:32,720 So I'm curious, 157 00:08:32,803 --> 00:08:35,973 how should the US be striving to reduce inequality? 158 00:08:36,057 --> 00:08:39,644 Well, I… I think, unfortunately, Bill, we are moving in the wrong direction. 159 00:08:40,561 --> 00:08:42,271 We have the obscene situation 160 00:08:42,355 --> 00:08:44,857 where there are three people, you being one of them, 161 00:08:44,941 --> 00:08:47,944 who own more wealth than the bottom half of America. 162 00:08:48,027 --> 00:08:50,655 You know, it reminds me, maybe 150 years ago, 163 00:08:50,738 --> 00:08:55,034 where the Czar of Russia or the kings of Europe 164 00:08:55,117 --> 00:08:56,911 had all this wealth and power 165 00:08:56,994 --> 00:08:58,829 because of the divine right of, 166 00:08:58,913 --> 00:09:02,917 "God said that you can own everything and have all the power." 167 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,838 "God said that." And I don't see a, uh, throne on your head, right? 168 00:09:07,922 --> 00:09:10,591 -You're not King Bill. -All right. You got me on that one. 169 00:09:10,675 --> 00:09:12,468 [both laugh] 170 00:09:12,552 --> 00:09:16,847 But would you go so far as to have laws 171 00:09:16,931 --> 00:09:19,058 that would stop there from being billionaires? 172 00:09:19,141 --> 00:09:20,977 -How would you deal with that? -Yeah, I would. 173 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:23,062 -Okay. [chuckles] -Yeah, I would. 174 00:09:23,145 --> 00:09:27,024 You are, just saying you personally, a very innovative guy. 175 00:09:27,108 --> 00:09:29,068 Do you deserve financial reward for that? You do. 176 00:09:29,151 --> 00:09:30,403 How much do you deserve? 177 00:09:30,486 --> 00:09:32,572 All right. Can you make it on a billion? 178 00:09:32,655 --> 00:09:35,199 Think you could feed the family? Probably. 179 00:09:35,283 --> 00:09:36,534 Pay the rent? Maybe. 180 00:09:36,617 --> 00:09:39,078 -Again, I don't mean to be picking on you. -Sure. 181 00:09:39,161 --> 00:09:41,539 But all over the world, we have multi-billionaires, 182 00:09:41,622 --> 00:09:43,749 and with that wealth goes incredible power. 183 00:09:43,833 --> 00:09:45,585 Do I think that's acceptable? No, I don't. 184 00:09:45,668 --> 00:09:47,878 So if you're asking me, "Do I think we should eliminate 185 00:09:47,962 --> 00:09:50,840 the concept of billionaires?" Yeah, I do. I do. 186 00:09:50,923 --> 00:09:54,927 You know, I have real concerns about what I would call uber-capitalism, 187 00:09:55,428 --> 00:10:00,600 and that is that incredible concentration of wealth and power 188 00:10:00,683 --> 00:10:04,270 in the hands of the few, and what it means to our whole society. 189 00:10:04,854 --> 00:10:07,064 Is the system working, in your judgment? 190 00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:08,524 Is it working? 191 00:10:08,608 --> 00:10:09,692 What do you think? 192 00:10:12,445 --> 00:10:18,743 I am a huge believer that capitalism is the… the right part of the solution. 193 00:10:20,703 --> 00:10:27,084 Capitalism creates all this freedom for innovation and mobility, 194 00:10:28,628 --> 00:10:33,549 and in a country like the US, because we don't believe in aristocracy, 195 00:10:34,508 --> 00:10:38,262 we pride ourselves on the idea of income mobility. 196 00:10:40,306 --> 00:10:43,434 It's the idea of creating that equal opportunity 197 00:10:43,517 --> 00:10:45,519 so that people are mobile 198 00:10:46,479 --> 00:10:52,109 and not stuck based on whatever their parents' outcome was. 199 00:10:53,277 --> 00:10:55,279 [inquisitive music playing] 200 00:10:55,363 --> 00:10:59,742 [Gates] You know, when I was growing up, I was a healthy white male 201 00:10:59,825 --> 00:11:05,164 in an upper-middle-class family who had access to an incredible education, 202 00:11:05,748 --> 00:11:11,587 which enabled me to go to a really great college and start a business. 203 00:11:11,671 --> 00:11:16,759 I mean, the US environment and the timing was kind of unbelievably lucky. 204 00:11:16,842 --> 00:11:19,595 [reporter 3] who co-founded a software company 205 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,182 with a boyhood friend when he was only 19 years old. 206 00:11:23,849 --> 00:11:26,018 This is the richest man on Earth. 207 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:29,188 [Gates] I believed in a certain frugalness, 208 00:11:29,271 --> 00:11:34,610 but I did buy myself a Porsche car when I was 19. 209 00:11:34,694 --> 00:11:36,570 -[tires screech] -[engine revs] 210 00:11:36,654 --> 00:11:38,948 -[engine accelerates] -[siren wails] 211 00:11:39,031 --> 00:11:40,574 [laughs] 212 00:11:40,658 --> 00:11:41,909 [inquisitive music playing] 213 00:11:41,992 --> 00:11:44,829 [Gates] So for somebody in my position, the mobility, 214 00:11:44,912 --> 00:11:50,793 the opportunity to pick a profession and do well, was incredibly high, 215 00:11:50,876 --> 00:11:52,378 but for women, 216 00:11:52,962 --> 00:11:55,297 people who had health conditions, 217 00:11:55,381 --> 00:11:56,716 people who weren't white, 218 00:11:56,799 --> 00:11:59,802 you know, some of those opportunities really weren't there, 219 00:12:01,137 --> 00:12:04,098 and we've made progress on these issues 220 00:12:05,307 --> 00:12:10,813 but nowhere near to the level that the American dream is aspirational of. 221 00:12:10,896 --> 00:12:12,523 [inquisitive music playing] 222 00:12:13,107 --> 00:12:16,152 [woman 2] Then it starts with paying our young people livable wages. 223 00:12:16,235 --> 00:12:18,446 -Yeah! -[all applauding] 224 00:12:18,529 --> 00:12:19,780 Today we're done. 225 00:12:19,864 --> 00:12:23,617 1.2 million workers have walked off the job, out of this industry, 226 00:12:23,701 --> 00:12:26,829 saying enough is enough. We will not come back unless… 227 00:12:26,912 --> 00:12:28,497 -[woman 3] That's right. -Yes! 228 00:12:29,123 --> 00:12:33,294 [reporter 4] could be on the cusp of a big pay raise. 229 00:12:33,377 --> 00:12:36,130 Right now they are paid nine dollars an hour plus tips, 230 00:12:36,714 --> 00:12:39,633 but the city council could make employers pay them what others make, 231 00:12:39,717 --> 00:12:41,135 nearly 16 an hour. 232 00:12:42,052 --> 00:12:45,848 In the United States, there are two tiers, at least, of wages. 233 00:12:45,931 --> 00:12:50,436 There's an overall federal minimum wage of seven dollars and twenty-five cents, 234 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:53,355 and then there's a sub-minimum wage for tipped workers. 235 00:12:53,439 --> 00:12:55,816 That sub-minimum wage varies depending on the state. 236 00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:59,236 At the federal level, it's two dollars and thirteen cents an hour. 237 00:13:00,112 --> 00:13:04,033 This is a population that actually is overwhelmingly still to this day women, 238 00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:05,618 disproportionately women of color. 239 00:13:05,701 --> 00:13:08,496 We have the highest rates of single moms of any occupation, 240 00:13:08,579 --> 00:13:11,373 struggling with three times the poverty rate of other workers. 241 00:13:11,457 --> 00:13:14,043 -Using food stamps at double the rate. -We want a fair wage… 242 00:13:14,126 --> 00:13:16,337 [Jayaraman] But for the last 15, 20 years, 243 00:13:16,837 --> 00:13:21,759 there have been an incredible group of Black women leaders of One Fair Wage 244 00:13:21,842 --> 00:13:26,847 in Chicago who are fighting to get a full minimum wage with tips on top. 245 00:13:27,431 --> 00:13:29,433 The money is not sustainable. 246 00:13:29,517 --> 00:13:31,519 [woman 4] The tips are not always the same. 247 00:13:31,602 --> 00:13:32,812 Some mornings when I go home, 248 00:13:32,895 --> 00:13:37,149 I can take home anywhere from 80 to 150 dollars. 249 00:13:37,983 --> 00:13:40,194 Now some days I'll go home with just 40 dollars. 250 00:13:40,277 --> 00:13:44,615 You've told me that you earn about 15,000 dollars a year. 251 00:13:44,698 --> 00:13:45,741 [Gibson] A year. 252 00:13:45,825 --> 00:13:47,785 -That is why-- -[Gibson] With my public assistance. 253 00:13:47,868 --> 00:13:49,495 You have to get on public assistance. 254 00:13:49,578 --> 00:13:51,497 And how often did you get to see your kid? 255 00:13:51,997 --> 00:13:55,000 [exhales] Just when I woke him up and sent him to school. 256 00:13:55,084 --> 00:14:00,089 That would be my only mommy time, and that went on for like two years. 257 00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:02,550 Good morning, everyone and Mayor. 258 00:14:03,217 --> 00:14:08,138 Today, tip workers are mostly women like me, forced to live on tips. 259 00:14:08,222 --> 00:14:14,311 Living on tips means we never know how much we will get day after day. 260 00:14:14,395 --> 00:14:18,399 So if we can have a real-life wage, that would be good. 261 00:14:18,482 --> 00:14:22,194 Thank you, thank you, and that's all I have to say, Mayor. I'm good. 262 00:14:22,278 --> 00:14:25,656 [crowd applauding and cheering] 263 00:14:25,739 --> 00:14:29,702 But at the end of the day, we're dealing with capitalism, okay? 264 00:14:29,785 --> 00:14:31,871 The higher-ups, they need us. 265 00:14:32,454 --> 00:14:36,250 Every year, the cost of living goes up, and we gotta stay in the industry, 266 00:14:36,333 --> 00:14:40,713 and we gotta get up on our feet, and then still rely on public assistance too, 267 00:14:40,796 --> 00:14:42,006 so it isn't fair, 268 00:14:42,506 --> 00:14:44,717 but they need to pay us and pay us right, 269 00:14:45,217 --> 00:14:48,512 and if they don't, they're gonna lose. 270 00:14:48,596 --> 00:14:50,514 [inquisitive music playing] 271 00:14:50,598 --> 00:14:55,769 [Gates] In America, we'd like for everyone to have certain basics. 272 00:14:55,853 --> 00:15:00,858 That is, you know, health care, decent education, decent housing, 273 00:15:00,941 --> 00:15:04,820 and so how do we design the right systems 274 00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:09,992 so we can raise that basic level that everybody has available? 275 00:15:13,913 --> 00:15:15,497 -[Gates] Hi, Senator. -Bill, how are you? 276 00:15:15,581 --> 00:15:17,958 -[Gates] Thanks for doing this. -Of course. Nice to see you. 277 00:15:18,584 --> 00:15:20,377 So this whole thing of the role of government, 278 00:15:20,461 --> 00:15:23,839 the role of private sector, you've had to think about that your whole life, 279 00:15:23,923 --> 00:15:26,342 and, you know, the US is the richest country 280 00:15:26,425 --> 00:15:28,761 but still short of the ideal that we'd like. 281 00:15:28,844 --> 00:15:30,346 [Romney] Yeah, no question about that. 282 00:15:30,429 --> 00:15:33,974 Uh, our free-enterprise system, capitalism, if you will, 283 00:15:34,058 --> 00:15:36,685 has generated extraordinary wealth. 284 00:15:36,769 --> 00:15:40,147 It's not perfect. It just happens to be better than any alternatives 285 00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:41,732 that we've seen around the world. 286 00:15:41,815 --> 00:15:44,234 There had been a lot of people who've been living in poverty 287 00:15:44,318 --> 00:15:47,237 under socialism, communism, for hundreds of years. 288 00:15:47,321 --> 00:15:49,990 They finally adopted free enterprise of a sort. 289 00:15:50,074 --> 00:15:52,868 China, for instance, did so, and interestingly, 290 00:15:52,952 --> 00:15:55,913 hundreds of millions of people came out of poverty. 291 00:15:56,580 --> 00:15:58,999 And when you look at the trade-offs the US makes, 292 00:15:59,083 --> 00:16:03,712 maybe versus Europe, where they have a less dynamic economy, 293 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:07,091 but, you know, some people would prefer us to be more like Europe. 294 00:16:07,174 --> 00:16:08,842 How do you see the trade-off there? 295 00:16:08,926 --> 00:16:12,179 I think if you compare the vitality and growth 296 00:16:12,262 --> 00:16:15,224 that exists in the United States relative to that in Europe, 297 00:16:15,307 --> 00:16:18,143 you'd have to say, "Gosh, the United States seems to have things, 298 00:16:18,227 --> 00:16:19,478 uh, in a better place." 299 00:16:19,561 --> 00:16:20,396 [Gates] Mmm. 300 00:16:20,479 --> 00:16:23,524 There's no question but that the most innovative people in the world, 301 00:16:23,607 --> 00:16:26,110 if they're thinking about starting an enterprise, 302 00:16:26,193 --> 00:16:28,779 think the place to do so is the United States. 303 00:16:28,862 --> 00:16:31,407 If you look at the billion-dollar enterprises, 304 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:32,950 they're almost all here in the US. 305 00:16:33,033 --> 00:16:35,995 The so-called unicorns are all American enterprises. 306 00:16:36,078 --> 00:16:38,664 And why is that? I mean, we have similar brains. 307 00:16:38,747 --> 00:16:42,835 I happen to believe that the risk tolerance here is greater. 308 00:16:42,918 --> 00:16:45,421 Our bankruptcy laws, our financial system, 309 00:16:45,504 --> 00:16:48,340 the options that entrepreneurs are able to obtain, 310 00:16:48,424 --> 00:16:52,469 these things create an environment of risk-taking and innovation 311 00:16:52,553 --> 00:16:54,972 which has led to all sorts of successes, and by the way, 312 00:16:55,055 --> 00:16:58,142 if you want people to come out of the realms of poverty 313 00:16:58,225 --> 00:17:00,060 and have better opportunity, 314 00:17:00,144 --> 00:17:04,314 there's almost nothing more powerful as an elixir than growth. 315 00:17:04,898 --> 00:17:06,400 If your economy's growing, 316 00:17:06,483 --> 00:17:09,653 if there are new businesses starting and hiring more people, 317 00:17:09,737 --> 00:17:12,448 why, that creates opportunity for people to come out of poverty. 318 00:17:12,531 --> 00:17:14,366 [inquisitive music playing] 319 00:17:15,659 --> 00:17:19,663 Well, socialism was a fantastic system to make people equally poor. 320 00:17:20,205 --> 00:17:23,667 Um, uh, capitalism makes people unequally rich. 321 00:17:24,835 --> 00:17:27,087 In the history of all mankind, 322 00:17:27,671 --> 00:17:32,760 the countries that thrived are those that have the most flows. 323 00:17:32,843 --> 00:17:33,886 [inquisitive music playing] 324 00:17:33,969 --> 00:17:36,805 [Friedman] Flows of ideas, flows of capital, 325 00:17:36,889 --> 00:17:38,682 -flows of people… -[crowd cheering] 326 00:17:38,766 --> 00:17:40,059 [Friedman] …and flows of power. 327 00:17:40,809 --> 00:17:44,563 Can we just please remember why economies grow? 328 00:17:45,481 --> 00:17:48,484 Whether it's Henry Ford with the Model T 329 00:17:48,567 --> 00:17:50,277 or Bill Gates with Microsoft, 330 00:17:50,903 --> 00:17:52,738 anything that creates good jobs 331 00:17:52,821 --> 00:17:55,699 helps the little guy as well as the big guy. 332 00:17:56,283 --> 00:17:58,702 What it does is it raises the floor. 333 00:17:58,786 --> 00:18:03,415 It also raises the ceiling, and where government policy should come in 334 00:18:03,499 --> 00:18:08,337 is maybe shrinking the gap between that rising floor and that rising ceiling 335 00:18:08,420 --> 00:18:11,423 by investing more in public goods. 336 00:18:11,965 --> 00:18:16,261 Mass transportation, public parks, public schools 337 00:18:16,345 --> 00:18:21,433 that undergird any healthy democratic capitalist society. 338 00:18:22,017 --> 00:18:24,019 [inquisitive music plays] 339 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:26,563 -[music fades] -[birds tweeting] 340 00:18:26,647 --> 00:18:27,606 [indistinct chatter] 341 00:18:27,689 --> 00:18:29,399 -[woman 5] Hello. -[all] Hi. 342 00:18:29,483 --> 00:18:30,526 Hi. 343 00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:32,528 -[woman 6] Hi. -Good to meet you. 344 00:18:32,611 --> 00:18:33,946 -This is Connor Maxwell. -[Ariana] Hey. 345 00:18:34,029 --> 00:18:35,405 [Maxwell] Let's just get into it. 346 00:18:35,489 --> 00:18:41,036 One of the topics we're very interested in at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation 347 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,163 is the challenge of economic mobility, 348 00:18:43,247 --> 00:18:47,876 but at the same time, I've found that to… to really understand these challenges, 349 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,338 it's helpful to speak to people who have developed expertise 350 00:18:51,421 --> 00:18:53,507 through their own lived experiences. 351 00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:57,553 Michael, Ariana, Lashana, you three have developed expertise 352 00:18:57,636 --> 00:19:01,515 from job training to reentry and entrepreneurship. 353 00:19:01,598 --> 00:19:05,060 All three of you have faced major challenges during your upbringings 354 00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:07,020 that affected your opportunities, 355 00:19:07,104 --> 00:19:11,024 so I think we'd like to hear from you all a bit about your journeys. 356 00:19:11,108 --> 00:19:13,443 -Um, how does that sound? -[Gates chuckles] 357 00:19:13,527 --> 00:19:15,612 Cool? Uh, Michael, could we start with you? 358 00:19:15,696 --> 00:19:16,697 [Michael] Uh, yeah. 359 00:19:16,780 --> 00:19:19,575 Growing up for me, it was, uh… it was kind of rough. 360 00:19:19,658 --> 00:19:24,037 I had both my parents, losing them both to incarceration at an early age, 361 00:19:24,121 --> 00:19:27,916 and, you know, myself being incarcerated at a young age as well. 362 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,085 I was incarcerated when I was 15. 363 00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:31,211 Fifteen? Wow. 364 00:19:31,295 --> 00:19:34,131 Uh, I wasn't released until I was 28. 365 00:19:34,214 --> 00:19:35,424 [Gates] Twenty-eight? 366 00:19:35,507 --> 00:19:37,676 -Twenty-eight, yes. [chuckles] -[Gates] Wow. 367 00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:42,514 So that was… that was an important moment, you know, of my life, 368 00:19:42,598 --> 00:19:44,808 so, uh, upon release, 369 00:19:44,892 --> 00:19:48,061 there wasn't really too much as far as reentry programs 370 00:19:48,145 --> 00:19:49,855 or help to get jobs, 371 00:19:49,938 --> 00:19:54,234 or, you know, even the simplest help with, you know, making up a resume. 372 00:19:54,318 --> 00:19:57,070 When you were leaving, what did they give you or provide 373 00:19:57,154 --> 00:19:58,572 to help you with the next step? 374 00:19:58,655 --> 00:20:01,116 Uh, two hundred dollars out the gate. 375 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,826 [laughs] 376 00:20:02,910 --> 00:20:04,411 -[Gates chuckles] -[Michael] That's it. 377 00:20:04,953 --> 00:20:09,666 Someone else I was incarcerated with was like, "You should try driving trucks," 378 00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:13,045 but what really sparked it was my son overheard it, 379 00:20:13,128 --> 00:20:15,255 and he was like, "Oh, that'd be cool. You should do it." 380 00:20:15,339 --> 00:20:17,257 -All right. [chuckles] -[Michael laughs] 381 00:20:17,341 --> 00:20:21,053 He's pretty stoked. He can't wait to go on the summer road trip. 382 00:20:21,136 --> 00:20:22,387 [all laugh] 383 00:20:22,471 --> 00:20:25,641 Great. Um, Ariana, do you want to share a bit about your background? 384 00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:30,354 Yeah. Um, so I am an, 385 00:20:30,437 --> 00:20:33,482 uh, one of the over… older siblings of four. 386 00:20:33,565 --> 00:20:36,318 Grew up in an abusive home, um, at the time. 387 00:20:36,401 --> 00:20:39,905 Around six or seven, the resources dried up, 388 00:20:40,405 --> 00:20:42,658 and so we moved to deep East Oakland, 389 00:20:42,741 --> 00:20:44,868 and it's not, um, 390 00:20:45,535 --> 00:20:48,372 the most well-resourced area. 391 00:20:48,455 --> 00:20:51,166 [somber music playing] 392 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,839 [Ariana] Poverty is oftentimes linked with the dollars and cents, 393 00:20:57,923 --> 00:21:03,887 and we don't talk about that mental toll that it can take on a person. 394 00:21:05,597 --> 00:21:08,350 My mom was constantly hustling. 395 00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:10,310 She would work multiple jobs. 396 00:21:12,396 --> 00:21:16,400 Having a lack of resources, particularly money, 397 00:21:16,483 --> 00:21:18,485 it affects your every move. 398 00:21:20,487 --> 00:21:22,531 Like, it affects where you live 399 00:21:22,614 --> 00:21:25,284 and whether you have access to grocery stores 400 00:21:25,367 --> 00:21:28,495 and whether you have access to a car, schools. 401 00:21:29,705 --> 00:21:34,084 It permeates through every single aspect of your life. 402 00:21:36,336 --> 00:21:39,631 That in itself creates a traumatic response. 403 00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:45,470 What ends up happening is you're in this constant state of survival. 404 00:21:45,554 --> 00:21:50,309 You're not able to look further out and… and plan for the future 405 00:21:50,392 --> 00:21:54,021 because you're… you're worried about dinner. 406 00:21:56,148 --> 00:21:58,525 And so when you're in that survival mindset, 407 00:21:58,608 --> 00:22:00,569 your mind is constantly going. 408 00:22:00,652 --> 00:22:04,072 You don't have time to plan for the future. 409 00:22:04,156 --> 00:22:06,950 You don't have space to dream. 410 00:22:07,617 --> 00:22:08,535 [clipper thuds] 411 00:22:10,912 --> 00:22:13,915 [Gates] Inequality is very difficult because 412 00:22:15,542 --> 00:22:17,169 it's not just purely an income thing 413 00:22:18,712 --> 00:22:20,547 but their quality of life. 414 00:22:22,049 --> 00:22:24,801 Where I know where my next meal is coming from. 415 00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:27,137 I know that I'll have shelter tonight. 416 00:22:27,929 --> 00:22:31,224 I have a chance to have my children be educated. 417 00:22:33,435 --> 00:22:37,481 You know, we want to be a land where people start their own businesses 418 00:22:37,564 --> 00:22:41,902 and feel a sense of achievement and not, you know, caught 419 00:22:42,736 --> 00:22:44,112 in a system where they… 420 00:22:44,780 --> 00:22:46,198 are deprived. 421 00:22:51,411 --> 00:22:53,038 [woman 7] I like the word "inequality" 422 00:22:53,121 --> 00:22:58,001 because I find, ironically, that it's an inclusive word. 423 00:22:58,085 --> 00:22:59,836 [inquisitive music playing] 424 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,172 [Elliott] It evokes a relationship 425 00:23:02,255 --> 00:23:07,594 between people at the top and those who are struggling to survive. 426 00:23:09,304 --> 00:23:11,515 We are all on this shared spectrum 427 00:23:12,641 --> 00:23:14,935 that also includes billionaires, 428 00:23:15,811 --> 00:23:17,062 and it's one nation. 429 00:23:18,313 --> 00:23:23,026 What does it take to close the gap between what you have and what you need 430 00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:27,364 in order to not just survive but advance in America? 431 00:23:27,447 --> 00:23:29,574 And increasingly, that gap is very wide, 432 00:23:30,909 --> 00:23:37,833 but however we talk about this problem, whether it's as inequality or social-- 433 00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:39,334 [faint whirring] 434 00:23:39,418 --> 00:23:40,252 Is that a…? 435 00:23:40,335 --> 00:23:42,796 That's probably a BLADE helicopter going to the Hamptons. 436 00:23:42,879 --> 00:23:44,464 -I'm serious. -[producer] It is Friday. 437 00:23:44,548 --> 00:23:45,590 Oh my God. 438 00:23:48,468 --> 00:23:49,970 [inquisitive music continues] 439 00:23:50,053 --> 00:23:53,056 [man 3] One of the reasons people think this is an intractable problem 440 00:23:53,849 --> 00:23:56,518 is the fact that there are so many aspects to it. 441 00:23:56,601 --> 00:24:00,230 You know, we could look at this as a problem of health care. 442 00:24:00,313 --> 00:24:05,402 Roughly a third of the country don't have regular access to medical care. 443 00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:08,530 It's a problem of education 444 00:24:09,114 --> 00:24:13,452 and the caliber of the education you are eligible to receive, 445 00:24:14,077 --> 00:24:16,037 and it's a problem of income. 446 00:24:16,788 --> 00:24:18,623 I think we have to zoom out as well, 447 00:24:19,374 --> 00:24:22,669 and then we see that the differences are just astounding. 448 00:24:23,211 --> 00:24:25,088 If you have a median wage 449 00:24:25,172 --> 00:24:28,175 in a country like the Netherlands, or from the US, 450 00:24:28,258 --> 00:24:31,094 then you're already part of the richest 5% in the world. 451 00:24:31,595 --> 00:24:35,891 More than half of the world population lives on less than seven dollars a day. 452 00:24:36,641 --> 00:24:40,353 But also there's inequality within the inequality. 453 00:24:41,104 --> 00:24:43,231 Very often there's a gender divide. 454 00:24:44,065 --> 00:24:46,485 Very often those communities are Black and brown. 455 00:24:47,152 --> 00:24:50,572 The problems of race and the problems of class are not the same, 456 00:24:50,655 --> 00:24:52,032 but they do overlap. 457 00:24:53,492 --> 00:24:56,286 We can see that time and time again 458 00:24:56,369 --> 00:24:59,623 that these ideologies are so braided together. 459 00:25:01,082 --> 00:25:02,709 The success of labor unions 460 00:25:02,792 --> 00:25:06,922 and relatively high wages in the middle third of the 20th century, 461 00:25:07,005 --> 00:25:10,800 but segregation prevents Black people from having access to that. 462 00:25:11,885 --> 00:25:17,140 Currently, the median white household has about ten times the wealth 463 00:25:17,224 --> 00:25:19,392 of the median Black household. 464 00:25:20,602 --> 00:25:25,440 One of the more notable things we saw in the midst of the pandemic 465 00:25:26,233 --> 00:25:30,570 was that the same communities were being disproportionately affected 466 00:25:30,654 --> 00:25:33,073 by disparate mortality rates, 467 00:25:33,657 --> 00:25:36,243 police violence at a disproportionate level, 468 00:25:36,826 --> 00:25:40,747 and so there's a racial correlation to these dynamics 469 00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:43,542 that further exacerbates 470 00:25:43,625 --> 00:25:46,419 the overall problem of inequality in the society. 471 00:25:48,713 --> 00:25:53,885 I don't think we've really come up with a good way of sort of addressing this, 472 00:25:53,969 --> 00:25:55,595 but the United States did a pretty good job. 473 00:25:56,263 --> 00:25:57,514 We had the New Deal. 474 00:25:57,597 --> 00:26:00,684 We implemented Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, things like that, 475 00:26:00,767 --> 00:26:05,105 and so we cobbled together a social democratic state in America, 476 00:26:05,188 --> 00:26:10,485 and people who imagine the United States as some hyper-capitalist wasteland, 477 00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:11,528 those people are wrong, 478 00:26:12,529 --> 00:26:18,034 but making a more egalitarian society with a basic sort of level of subsistence, 479 00:26:18,118 --> 00:26:19,995 a lot of countries have done really well in this. 480 00:26:20,078 --> 00:26:21,871 We've done less well, and we need to do better. 481 00:26:21,955 --> 00:26:23,957 [helicopter blades whirring] 482 00:26:25,375 --> 00:26:28,920 [Gates] Maybe it's just my optimism, but in… in our lifetimes, 483 00:26:29,004 --> 00:26:35,135 the progress on the overall wealth, the safety net, education, 484 00:26:35,218 --> 00:26:38,096 we did get through a lot of tough challenges. 485 00:26:38,179 --> 00:26:42,559 Do you think over time we can continue to make progress on that? 486 00:26:43,226 --> 00:26:45,645 Today there are these culture battles 487 00:26:45,729 --> 00:26:48,273 and demonization of people across the aisle. 488 00:26:48,356 --> 00:26:52,527 And so policy, uh, the kinds of things that help people come out of poverty, 489 00:26:52,611 --> 00:26:54,404 has taken a back seat. 490 00:26:54,487 --> 00:26:57,824 I do think that our political parties are casting around a bit. 491 00:26:57,907 --> 00:27:00,869 They don't quite know where to go. 492 00:27:00,952 --> 00:27:02,203 So my party, for instance, 493 00:27:02,287 --> 00:27:07,125 now is almost two-thirds made up of individuals without college education. 494 00:27:07,208 --> 00:27:11,379 And these are people who, I presume, would like to see a higher minimum wage, 495 00:27:11,463 --> 00:27:14,966 but our orthodoxy in the Republican Party for a long time has been 496 00:27:15,050 --> 00:27:18,887 "Don't raise the minimum wage." That's what business has been saying. 497 00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:20,013 Well, what are we gonna do? 498 00:27:20,597 --> 00:27:23,683 And that confusion has been, to a certain degree, responsible 499 00:27:23,767 --> 00:27:27,646 for the lack of actual progress on dealing with some of the challenges we have, 500 00:27:27,729 --> 00:27:30,231 so we have got to tackle this issue. 501 00:27:30,315 --> 00:27:32,651 Does it mean some changes in tax policy? 502 00:27:32,734 --> 00:27:36,112 Absolutely. I think there are some anomalies in our tax policy 503 00:27:36,196 --> 00:27:37,864 that I think ought to be adjusted. 504 00:27:37,947 --> 00:27:41,868 Does it mean some things we're spending on we need to cut back on? Absolutely. 505 00:27:42,869 --> 00:27:44,537 [upbeat music playing] 506 00:27:44,621 --> 00:27:46,748 [Bregman] This is one of the wonderful things about history. 507 00:27:46,831 --> 00:27:49,751 It gives you a little bit of perspective about what's possible 508 00:27:49,834 --> 00:27:51,461 because sometimes people say, 509 00:27:51,544 --> 00:27:53,713 "Oh, higher taxes, surely that's impossible." 510 00:27:53,797 --> 00:27:55,006 "That's never been done." 511 00:27:55,090 --> 00:27:56,758 Well, actually… [laughs] 512 00:27:57,926 --> 00:28:00,053 …in the '50s and the '60s, 513 00:28:00,136 --> 00:28:04,557 taxation rates were as high as 80, 90% for the very rich. 514 00:28:04,641 --> 00:28:08,395 It turns out that economic growth was never as high as in the '50s and the '60s. 515 00:28:08,478 --> 00:28:10,563 There was an enormous amount of innovation, 516 00:28:10,647 --> 00:28:14,275 and there was actually a slowdown in innovation in the '80s and the '90s. 517 00:28:15,276 --> 00:28:17,904 [Desmond] We need these deeper investments in the public good. 518 00:28:17,987 --> 00:28:20,365 That's democracy, right? 519 00:28:20,448 --> 00:28:24,703 Taxes are our collective investment in the public good. 520 00:28:25,870 --> 00:28:30,834 Well, it's weird that in the US, you know, the trend has been to reduce taxation, 521 00:28:30,917 --> 00:28:36,423 but I'm amazed that the rich aren't taxed substantially more than they are. 522 00:28:37,215 --> 00:28:39,217 If you raise taxes a fair bit, 523 00:28:39,801 --> 00:28:42,887 there should be enough to somewhat raise the safety net, 524 00:28:42,971 --> 00:28:46,850 which is not as well-funded as I would make it… 525 00:28:46,933 --> 00:28:49,644 Other people might go even further than I would, but… 526 00:28:51,396 --> 00:28:52,564 [Gates inhales] 527 00:28:52,647 --> 00:28:57,277 One thing I think you and I would agree on is that the tax system is a key tool 528 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,071 to moderate what capitalism does, 529 00:29:00,155 --> 00:29:02,991 where you have these extreme winners like myself, 530 00:29:03,074 --> 00:29:05,910 and so, you know, under the tax system I would go for, 531 00:29:05,994 --> 00:29:09,414 the wealthy would have, say, a third as much. 532 00:29:09,497 --> 00:29:12,625 Well, needless to say, I would go a lot further. 533 00:29:12,709 --> 00:29:14,252 And I think, you know… 534 00:29:14,335 --> 00:29:16,629 Your friend Warren Buffett makes the point 535 00:29:16,713 --> 00:29:21,301 that his effective tax rate is lower than his secretary's. 536 00:29:21,384 --> 00:29:23,845 And that is not what the American people wanna see. 537 00:29:23,928 --> 00:29:27,265 They do wanna see the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, 538 00:29:27,348 --> 00:29:29,434 but you have a political system 539 00:29:29,517 --> 00:29:32,228 which, unfortunately, represents the needs of the wealthy 540 00:29:32,312 --> 00:29:34,689 much more than the needs of ordinary Americans. 541 00:29:34,773 --> 00:29:37,567 You know, they do these happiness questionnaires. 542 00:29:37,650 --> 00:29:38,943 -Have you seen that? -Oh yeah. 543 00:29:39,027 --> 00:29:42,280 What they find is countries where people have that economic security, 544 00:29:42,363 --> 00:29:47,243 as in Scandinavia, usually Denmark or Finland or somebody, ranks at the top. 545 00:29:47,327 --> 00:29:48,328 Why is that? 546 00:29:48,411 --> 00:29:50,789 I think it's because people don't have to deal with the stress 547 00:29:50,872 --> 00:29:54,459 about how they're gonna feed their kids or provide health care or childcare. 548 00:29:54,542 --> 00:29:57,545 If you take that level of economic stress, 549 00:29:58,338 --> 00:29:59,464 if I say to somebody, 550 00:29:59,547 --> 00:30:02,717 "You're never gonna have to worry about whether you're gonna feed your family, 551 00:30:02,801 --> 00:30:04,302 whether your kid'll have health care." 552 00:30:04,385 --> 00:30:06,846 [breathes deeply] Thank you. 553 00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:09,808 Is it gonna make their life perfect? No. 554 00:30:10,475 --> 00:30:14,813 Will it ease their stress level, bring more happiness, security? 555 00:30:14,896 --> 00:30:16,105 I think it will. 556 00:30:20,193 --> 00:30:23,947 I recently tweeted that I was paying a whole lot in taxes, 557 00:30:24,948 --> 00:30:26,491 and I was proud of that. 558 00:30:26,574 --> 00:30:28,576 [inquisitive music playing] 559 00:30:28,660 --> 00:30:32,372 One of the most patriotic things that you can do as an American 560 00:30:32,455 --> 00:30:36,876 is go out, and get filthy, stinkin' rich, create a ton of jobs, 561 00:30:37,502 --> 00:30:40,046 invest in your company and others, 562 00:30:40,129 --> 00:30:41,256 and then pay your taxes. 563 00:30:41,923 --> 00:30:44,217 Look, I'm the luckiest motherfucker in the world, 564 00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:47,011 and when I write that check to the IRS 565 00:30:47,095 --> 00:30:49,430 for all those hundreds of millions of dollars, 566 00:30:49,514 --> 00:30:51,224 it's not that I like it, 567 00:30:51,307 --> 00:30:52,809 but I am proud of it 568 00:30:52,892 --> 00:30:56,145 because, you know, the roads, the military, the police, 569 00:30:56,229 --> 00:30:59,107 teachers, Medicaid, Medicare, 570 00:30:59,691 --> 00:31:02,569 that's a big part of where our taxpayer dollars go, 571 00:31:02,652 --> 00:31:04,612 and I feel like I've given something back. 572 00:31:04,696 --> 00:31:06,155 [metal clanks] 573 00:31:06,781 --> 00:31:09,367 [Elliott] People love to say that there is no silver bullet 574 00:31:09,450 --> 00:31:11,786 when it comes to solving inequality. 575 00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:13,705 I'd like to challenge that idea. 576 00:31:13,788 --> 00:31:18,835 I think there is, in a very broad sense, a silver bullet, relief. 577 00:31:18,918 --> 00:31:20,003 [dramatic music playing] 578 00:31:20,086 --> 00:31:23,631 [Elliott] These are things ranging from universal pre-K 579 00:31:24,507 --> 00:31:27,218 to supportive housing 580 00:31:27,302 --> 00:31:29,262 to livable wage, 581 00:31:29,345 --> 00:31:31,264 even things like a universal basic income. 582 00:31:31,347 --> 00:31:35,184 We have to have an income floor. We can get rid of poverty in our country. 583 00:31:35,268 --> 00:31:38,062 [Elliott] Whenever there is talk of such interventions, 584 00:31:38,146 --> 00:31:40,982 the response is, "That costs too much." 585 00:31:41,065 --> 00:31:45,194 Stunning amount the US spent last year on welfare programs. 586 00:31:45,278 --> 00:31:47,697 [Elliott] The problem with that line of thinking is that 587 00:31:47,780 --> 00:31:51,868 it presumes that by not investing in these costly programs, 588 00:31:51,951 --> 00:31:53,202 we are saving money, 589 00:31:53,286 --> 00:31:54,621 and the fact is, we aren't. 590 00:31:54,704 --> 00:31:57,040 We're paying for poverty every day 591 00:31:57,624 --> 00:32:00,793 in reduced productivity in the labor market, 592 00:32:00,877 --> 00:32:04,547 in terms of increased costs related to crime and health. 593 00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:10,219 Sociologist Mark Rank estimates that the cost of child poverty in America 594 00:32:10,303 --> 00:32:12,096 is about $1 trillion a year. 595 00:32:13,973 --> 00:32:18,353 Another problem we face is there are a lot of programs 596 00:32:19,145 --> 00:32:23,524 that are very important and helpful to a lot of people who need them, 597 00:32:23,608 --> 00:32:24,943 but we don't make it easy. 598 00:32:25,902 --> 00:32:30,365 In fact, we make it very difficult to get any benefits. 599 00:32:31,032 --> 00:32:34,869 Even those that are there, by law, for you. 600 00:32:36,162 --> 00:32:39,707 So, Bill, you know about the Earned Income Tax Credit. 601 00:32:40,291 --> 00:32:41,793 It's not easy to get. 602 00:32:43,169 --> 00:32:45,129 This is the two-page 1040, 603 00:32:46,005 --> 00:32:50,510 and this is the hundred-plus page instruction manual 604 00:32:50,593 --> 00:32:53,221 that goes along with this two-page form. 605 00:32:53,888 --> 00:32:57,517 [Rippel] And so we are going to see if you could help a person 606 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,811 apply for the Earned Income Tax Credit. 607 00:32:59,894 --> 00:33:01,896 [all laugh] 608 00:33:01,980 --> 00:33:05,400 Bill, I think I might hand you a pencil just in case. 609 00:33:05,483 --> 00:33:06,901 [all continue laughing] 610 00:33:06,985 --> 00:33:11,614 The Earned Income Tax Credit is the most important tax credit 611 00:33:11,698 --> 00:33:14,325 that is available to low and moderate-income households. 612 00:33:14,409 --> 00:33:18,246 It can be in the sum of thousands of dollars. 613 00:33:18,746 --> 00:33:24,460 It is considered the largest anti-poverty program in the country. 614 00:33:24,544 --> 00:33:28,756 So it's incredibly important to calculate this correctly. 615 00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:33,678 We're gonna start with an example. And that is Maria Johnson. 616 00:33:33,761 --> 00:33:35,763 -[Gates] I like her photo. -[Pilarski] Yeah. 617 00:33:35,847 --> 00:33:37,181 [all chuckle] 618 00:33:37,849 --> 00:33:41,561 [Pilarski] She is a single parent of two children. 619 00:33:41,644 --> 00:33:45,648 She works two jobs. So, multiple jobs, multiple kids. 620 00:33:45,732 --> 00:33:47,525 [Maxwell] If you have any questions… 621 00:33:47,608 --> 00:33:49,235 [Desmond] In the Earned Income Tax Credit, 622 00:33:49,318 --> 00:33:52,238 if you add up the amount of money unclaimed each year, 623 00:33:52,321 --> 00:33:55,742 they leave about 17 billion dollars a year on the table. 624 00:33:55,825 --> 00:33:58,828 "Church employee, clergy--" Oh my God, "Combat Pay." 625 00:33:58,911 --> 00:34:03,082 [Desmond] And if you add up the total in unused aid, every year, 626 00:34:03,166 --> 00:34:08,504 over 140 billion dollars in poverty aid goes unclaimed. 627 00:34:10,173 --> 00:34:13,509 We've saddled these programs with administrative burden. 628 00:34:14,010 --> 00:34:16,637 And I think it should be just as easy 629 00:34:16,721 --> 00:34:20,725 for someone to apply for unemployment insurance or food stamps 630 00:34:20,808 --> 00:34:24,937 as it is for me to take out my phone and order like, 631 00:34:25,021 --> 00:34:28,733 birdseed or whatever, and get it delivered to me the next day. 632 00:34:28,816 --> 00:34:32,904 -[Rippel] The answer is "no." [laughs] -Okay. Wow, that's a doozy. 633 00:34:32,987 --> 00:34:35,656 How confident are you that you filled it out correctly? 634 00:34:35,740 --> 00:34:38,534 There's a lot of money, as you saw, on the line here. 635 00:34:38,618 --> 00:34:42,955 -I'm 80% sure that I got that thing right. -[Maxwell chuckles] 636 00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:46,542 [Pilarski] I'll hand you the sheet, so you can compare it with what you came up with. 637 00:34:47,210 --> 00:34:50,421 [Gates] So, I was off by 5,000 dollars. 638 00:34:50,505 --> 00:34:51,339 Whoops. 639 00:34:51,422 --> 00:34:54,217 [all laughing] 640 00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:57,845 I'm used to these forms, but these are complicated forms. 641 00:34:57,929 --> 00:35:00,264 -I mean, you're skipping around… -Right. 642 00:35:00,348 --> 00:35:01,724 …and reading definitions. 643 00:35:01,808 --> 00:35:03,226 -Right. -Oh my God. 644 00:35:03,309 --> 00:35:06,771 [Maxwell] On top of working your two jobs and raising two children. 645 00:35:06,854 --> 00:35:08,981 -[Ariana] Raising twins. -[Rippel] Raising your twins. 646 00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:13,528 [Gates] The complexity of how a poor person has to deal 647 00:35:13,611 --> 00:35:16,739 with state-level programs, federal programs, 648 00:35:16,823 --> 00:35:19,158 it's super complicated. 649 00:35:20,952 --> 00:35:24,455 And many of those programs, the people who are eligible, 650 00:35:24,539 --> 00:35:28,417 less than nearly half are actually able to take advantage of it. 651 00:35:28,501 --> 00:35:33,297 In some ways, you could say that's the half that is the most in need of it. 652 00:35:35,299 --> 00:35:40,471 It's hard, particularly when they're facing a crisis, to get what's needed. 653 00:35:42,557 --> 00:35:44,392 -[Blake chuckling] -[Macphee] "Thus." 654 00:35:44,475 --> 00:35:47,603 I've never once spoken to my brother about taxes. Not one time. 655 00:35:47,687 --> 00:35:49,772 -[Gates] I've talked to Kristi a bit. -I hope so. 656 00:35:49,856 --> 00:35:51,816 Kristi actually did my taxes. 657 00:35:51,899 --> 00:35:53,484 So, what do we got? 658 00:35:53,568 --> 00:35:56,279 Uh, 82, 97 and 93. 659 00:35:56,362 --> 00:35:57,572 -[Gates] Wow. -You're ahead. 660 00:35:58,156 --> 00:36:00,199 I have all vowels at this point. 661 00:36:00,283 --> 00:36:02,201 [Blake chuckles] 662 00:36:02,285 --> 00:36:04,787 You're the one who's been keeping 'em. [chuckles] 663 00:36:04,871 --> 00:36:07,165 [Gates] Yeah, Kristi and I are a lot alike. 664 00:36:07,248 --> 00:36:09,500 One difference between us is, 665 00:36:09,584 --> 00:36:13,504 you know, I've kind of been spoiled, gotten lucky in so many things, 666 00:36:13,588 --> 00:36:17,884 but, you know, I always had kind of an optimistic outlook. 667 00:36:17,967 --> 00:36:20,970 I think for an entrepreneur, that's how you get successful. 668 00:36:21,053 --> 00:36:22,638 [Gates] No, it's very helpful. 669 00:36:22,722 --> 00:36:26,058 Then, particularly if it goes well, it… it gets reinforced even more. 670 00:36:26,142 --> 00:36:28,519 [all laugh] 671 00:36:28,603 --> 00:36:31,522 -So where are you on that? -I'm in between you two somewhere. 672 00:36:31,606 --> 00:36:33,024 -Yeah. -[Macphee] Yeah. 673 00:36:33,107 --> 00:36:35,526 But, you know, I don't think, without his optimism, 674 00:36:35,610 --> 00:36:39,780 how does he kind of keep going with all this philanthropy, you know, 675 00:36:39,864 --> 00:36:41,991 'cause it… it… it feels daunting. 676 00:36:42,074 --> 00:36:45,411 But the way his brain works, he's probably, in his mind, 677 00:36:45,494 --> 00:36:50,249 he's kind of got an idea of how these things might be resolved. 678 00:36:50,333 --> 00:36:56,047 Um, so, when the rest of us are thinking things are hopeless, he has a… a plan. 679 00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:57,173 [Gates breathes deeply] 680 00:36:57,256 --> 00:37:00,635 This past summer, Warren Buffett and Bill and Melinda Gates 681 00:37:00,718 --> 00:37:03,512 announced their idea of the Giving Pledge. 682 00:37:03,596 --> 00:37:05,598 They're asking America's billionaires 683 00:37:05,681 --> 00:37:08,809 to join them to give at least half their wealth away. 684 00:37:09,894 --> 00:37:11,938 [Gates] Well, Warren and Melinda and I got together 685 00:37:12,021 --> 00:37:14,482 with people who were substantial philanthropists 686 00:37:14,565 --> 00:37:17,318 and just had some dinners where we talked about, 687 00:37:17,401 --> 00:37:20,696 "How did you pick your causes?" "Why are you so engaged?" 688 00:37:20,780 --> 00:37:23,199 "Why do you think many others are not?" 689 00:37:23,282 --> 00:37:27,954 And it became clear that in philanthropy, you're… you're kind of isolated. 690 00:37:29,205 --> 00:37:34,585 It forces you to think about your death, your will, and all these topics 691 00:37:34,669 --> 00:37:39,507 that are often easier to just ignore and think about dealing with later. 692 00:37:39,590 --> 00:37:41,342 When they sign, what does it mean? 693 00:37:41,425 --> 00:37:43,594 That they're gonna give most of their money away? 694 00:37:43,678 --> 00:37:45,096 -Or some-- -The majority. 695 00:37:45,179 --> 00:37:50,893 And of the people who belong, you know, a lot are going to give 99% away. 696 00:37:51,394 --> 00:37:54,230 [Gates] You know, asking wealthy people to give away at least half, 697 00:37:55,189 --> 00:37:57,024 you know, I'm surprised how well it's worked. 698 00:37:58,109 --> 00:38:03,072 It became clear that there's quite a few who view their fortune as dynastic, 699 00:38:03,155 --> 00:38:05,908 so they want, you know, to pass it on to their children. 700 00:38:06,659 --> 00:38:08,369 And then there's a lot of people 701 00:38:08,452 --> 00:38:12,039 who just haven't faced the issues of who's gonna give it away. 702 00:38:12,873 --> 00:38:16,252 But the people who've joined the pledge have learned from each other, 703 00:38:16,335 --> 00:38:20,464 inspired each other, and we'd hoped we'd get dozens, 704 00:38:20,548 --> 00:38:22,883 and now we're up over 300 people. 705 00:38:24,552 --> 00:38:26,679 [Elliott] By giving away his wealth, 706 00:38:26,762 --> 00:38:30,641 Bill Gates is essentially imposing 707 00:38:30,725 --> 00:38:33,853 an income and wealth tax on himself. 708 00:38:33,936 --> 00:38:37,315 And I think what he's doing raises a really interesting question, which is, 709 00:38:37,398 --> 00:38:41,819 should he be able to decide what to do with his money rather than the government? 710 00:38:41,902 --> 00:38:44,488 And you can see arguments on both sides. 711 00:38:44,572 --> 00:38:45,823 The problem, though, 712 00:38:45,906 --> 00:38:50,119 is that many billionaires don't act like Bill Gates. 713 00:38:50,619 --> 00:38:53,581 They either hoard their money or, if they give it up, 714 00:38:53,664 --> 00:38:57,084 it's to things that aren't necessarily for the public good. 715 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,505 Some people say, "Well, the billionaires, they give a lot back." 716 00:39:01,589 --> 00:39:02,465 [exhales] 717 00:39:02,548 --> 00:39:04,633 I am super unimpressed. 718 00:39:04,717 --> 00:39:09,638 I mean, most billionaire philanthropy is basically about putting your name 719 00:39:09,722 --> 00:39:13,851 on some fancy university building or a museum. It's just vanity. 720 00:39:15,936 --> 00:39:21,359 Of course, charity has an ego-reputation element in it, 721 00:39:21,442 --> 00:39:24,737 and yet, at the end of the day, you have to ask, 722 00:39:24,820 --> 00:39:27,990 "Does it really improve society?" 723 00:39:28,574 --> 00:39:30,868 [producer] What about a billionaire like Bill Gates? 724 00:39:31,619 --> 00:39:34,663 The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has saved millions and millions of lives. 725 00:39:34,747 --> 00:39:36,749 I… I don't think anyone can deny that, 726 00:39:37,291 --> 00:39:38,626 but on the other hand, 727 00:39:39,293 --> 00:39:43,381 I would much rather move to a world where properly funded governments 728 00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:46,592 do the work that these rare philanthropies do. 729 00:39:47,718 --> 00:39:52,056 [reporter 5] cutting-edge and experimental ventures 730 00:39:52,139 --> 00:39:56,185 that government agencies, which are beholden to taxpayers, may not. 731 00:40:00,648 --> 00:40:04,276 [Gates] India is a very important place for our foundation work. 732 00:40:05,027 --> 00:40:07,655 We've been able to work together with the government, 733 00:40:07,738 --> 00:40:12,660 because they share the goal of reducing the inequality and lifting people up. 734 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,664 It was clear that we could pick the people 735 00:40:16,747 --> 00:40:19,375 who were already devoting their lives to these issues 736 00:40:19,458 --> 00:40:23,379 and fund them aggressively and set ambitious goals. 737 00:40:24,547 --> 00:40:27,258 [man 4] Bill, as we've looked at the inequality question in India, 738 00:40:27,341 --> 00:40:31,011 women aren't afforded the same access to opportunities. 739 00:40:31,595 --> 00:40:35,015 So, one of the key programs that the government has rolled out 740 00:40:35,099 --> 00:40:36,684 is the self-help groups. 741 00:40:37,726 --> 00:40:40,855 These are groups of 10 to 20 women at the village. 742 00:40:40,938 --> 00:40:45,484 Things that mobilize information, expands their access to markets, 743 00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:47,403 access to banking services. 744 00:40:47,987 --> 00:40:51,073 We see many women then start a small business. 745 00:40:51,699 --> 00:40:55,161 Today, we have 90 million women organized. 746 00:40:55,244 --> 00:40:58,330 They together have saved 6 billion dollars. 747 00:40:58,414 --> 00:41:00,332 [woman 8 in Hindi] Why did you take the loan? 748 00:41:00,416 --> 00:41:01,333 For my farm. 749 00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:07,006 [Krishna in English] We believe if we can continue to grow this kind of enterprise, 750 00:41:07,089 --> 00:41:10,384 we can actually create 50 to 75 million jobs 751 00:41:10,468 --> 00:41:12,761 in rural India in the near future. 752 00:41:13,637 --> 00:41:17,349 -[in Hindi] We are the women of India. -We are the women of India. 753 00:41:17,433 --> 00:41:21,228 -We're not flowers but sparks of fire. -We're not flowers but sparks of fire. 754 00:41:21,312 --> 00:41:23,606 [inspiring music playing] 755 00:41:23,689 --> 00:41:26,066 [Gates in English] You know, you have to be able to say 756 00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:28,903 there's still a lot of awful inequality 757 00:41:28,986 --> 00:41:34,575 and we've made mind-blowing progress on this issue. 758 00:41:35,451 --> 00:41:38,370 Our awareness of the bad stuff is high enough 759 00:41:38,454 --> 00:41:43,709 that people are often confused into thinking that the world is getting worse. 760 00:41:43,792 --> 00:41:46,295 So I sometimes find myself saying, 761 00:41:46,378 --> 00:41:50,508 "Hey, wait a minute. Let's learn from the cases where we have done well 762 00:41:50,591 --> 00:41:53,552 and the incredible progress that we've made." 763 00:41:54,053 --> 00:41:56,013 [audience cheering] 764 00:41:56,096 --> 00:41:59,725 Today marks the start of the end for sub-minimum wages in Chicago. 765 00:41:59,808 --> 00:42:01,352 [reporter 6] 766 00:42:01,852 --> 00:42:02,937 [reporter 7] 767 00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:05,523 the city council voted to abolish that system. 768 00:42:05,606 --> 00:42:07,858 [reporter 8] 769 00:42:07,942 --> 00:42:12,029 [Jayaraman] That was the first time in my 22 years of organizing 770 00:42:12,112 --> 00:42:14,907 we saw the majority of legislators say, 771 00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:18,410 "No, we actually have to stand with workers." 772 00:42:19,537 --> 00:42:25,125 The bill in Chicago is going to mean that these workers can support themselves, 773 00:42:25,209 --> 00:42:27,503 public assistance usage is gonna go down. 774 00:42:28,128 --> 00:42:30,756 That is what is so historic about this moment. 775 00:42:30,839 --> 00:42:32,591 And it is at every level, 776 00:42:32,675 --> 00:42:37,346 from the highly paid actors to the lowest paid restaurant workers. 777 00:42:37,429 --> 00:42:38,347 [indistinct chanting] 778 00:42:38,430 --> 00:42:40,975 [Jayaraman] People are standing up and demanding more. 779 00:42:41,058 --> 00:42:42,726 What does this mean? 780 00:42:42,810 --> 00:42:47,481 This could be the end of low-wage work as we know it right now. 781 00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:51,443 [inquisitive music playing] 782 00:42:51,527 --> 00:42:54,738 [Cobb] When you look at the long span of these questions… 783 00:42:57,575 --> 00:43:02,621 what you actually see is that inequality is not static. 784 00:43:03,664 --> 00:43:04,999 [Desmond] In 1964, 785 00:43:05,082 --> 00:43:08,586 when the Johnson administration launched the war on poverty, 786 00:43:08,669 --> 00:43:13,674 ten years after, the poverty line was half of what it was in 1960. 787 00:43:13,757 --> 00:43:15,467 It made a big difference. 788 00:43:16,677 --> 00:43:20,764 And if so much was accomplished despite the odds, one big reason 789 00:43:20,848 --> 00:43:23,142 was because normal, everyday Americans 790 00:43:23,225 --> 00:43:24,810 put pressure on their lawmakers, 791 00:43:24,893 --> 00:43:26,979 raised this issue with the American public. 792 00:43:28,314 --> 00:43:32,192 That means the best road we have to ending poverty 793 00:43:32,276 --> 00:43:35,696 is to bind ourselves together and demand this. 794 00:43:36,697 --> 00:43:39,575 [Elliott] It needs and demands the attention 795 00:43:39,658 --> 00:43:43,454 of the smartest people around and the most powerful people around. 796 00:43:43,537 --> 00:43:47,416 Not just activists on the ground, but billionaires like Bill Gates. 797 00:43:48,459 --> 00:43:51,295 [Gates] I'm excited about our next 20 years, 798 00:43:51,378 --> 00:43:53,464 which is when we'll spend all this money. 799 00:43:54,006 --> 00:43:57,676 You know, there are so many innovations coming in the future, 800 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,597 and there's nothing that has to be just for the elite. 801 00:44:02,097 --> 00:44:03,891 [inquisitive music playing] 802 00:44:06,685 --> 00:44:08,937 [inquisitive music continues] 803 00:44:34,838 --> 00:44:36,632 [music fades]