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{\an8} The World Wrestling
Entertainment Ladies Champion,
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{\an8}Wendi Richter!
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{\an8} Wendi Richter was the champion,
and everything was fine for a while.
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{\an8}But Wendi had become a problem,
as I recall.
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Every woman in professional wrestling
wants my belt,
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but I want it too and I had to...
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When it was time
to do the honors,
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and pass that championship
to someone else, she resisted.
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And it's like, "This is show business."
You know? "I'm writing a script."
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"You're holding my championship belt."
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"It's mine, it's not yours."
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"I'm not gonna give it up."
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"Well, all right."
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"I'm gonna make you give it up, then."
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This contest
is for the ladies' championship.
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{\an8}The audience is expecting a match.
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{\an8}You don't wanna fire someone
when you're expecting a match,
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because you're screwing the public then.
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So, get the match in the ring,
as my dad used to say,
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and then you figure it out.
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Bell's gone,
and we're underway in this title match-up.
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The match is in the ring,
Wendi has the championship.
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It's really easy.
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Somewhere in this match,
Wendi's gonna get rolled up.
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Told the ref simply,
"Just count to three."
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Oh, small package. Nicely executed.
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Whoa, was that close.
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What was that?
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The referee counted, "One."
I lifted my shoulder up,
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and he counted, "two, three,"
even with my shoulders off the mat.
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Wendi Richter has lost her title.
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That was a very painful night.
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My dreams were completely shattered.
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I was humiliated,
and it was on television.
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I didn't care.
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It was like,
the public being in an uproar...
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"Oh my God, you know,
it really wasn't a fair count."
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My answer to that is
life's not fair sometimes,
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and, you know, I don't fight fair.
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There's a saying in wrestling,
"It's nothing personal, just business."
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And I think that's what Vince McMahon is.
He's a businessman.
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Wendi came back after the match.
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She looked at me,
bowed her head, and walked out.
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That was the last I ever saw of Wendi.
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But for me, it was nothing personal.
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This is business, and there's nothing
I wouldn't do for our business.
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{\an8} Vince McMahon came in
wearing a neck brace and smiling,
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{\an8}in his second week on trial
for steroid-selling conspiracy.
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Today, McMahon was upstaged
by his former number one star, Hulk Hogan.
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The man behind the character
would shed his Spandex
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and jump into the ring
at US District Court
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to testify with immunity
against Vince McMahon, his former boss.
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This was to be the main event
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in the prosecution's conspiracy case
against McMahon.
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It was time for me to go testify.
I walked across the courtroom.
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As I walked by,
there was Vince McMahon sitting there,
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and we were
at each other's throats at the time.
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The feds thought that
this is the perfect opportunity for me
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to throw dirt on Vince
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and all of a sudden run wild
with the wrestling world.
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Went and testified,
and I think they were shocked.
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On cross-examination,
a powerslam by the defense.
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One of the last times I talked to Vince,
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and it had been months and months
since we talked,
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one of the last things I said to him,
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"Brother, we go all the way up together,
and we go all the way down together."
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"Don't forget that."
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As far as Hulk Hogan on the stand,
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I can tell you
that the government was surprised.
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I could see the faces on the prosecutors.
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"This is not what we were expecting."
Because Hogan totally backed Vince.
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Did the government
know what you'd say?
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No, I wouldn't tell them.
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I just said, "I'll say whatever
you guys need me to say."
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Told them what they wanted to hear,
but I knew what I was gonna say.
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I was gonna tell the truth.
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He didn't sell steroids.
He didn't tell people to take them.
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All the stuff they said about him
was not true.
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He was crafty in terms of
giving the government what they wanted
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to a certain extent,
but not what they really wanted.
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They really wanted someone to say,
"Vince McMahon told me to take steroids."
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They even called me.
They wanted me to testify against Vince.
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"Did Vince encourage you to do steroids?"
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I said, "No, I was using steroids
before I met Vince."
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He let us do it, let's put it thataway,
but he didn't sell it to us.
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There was a strong influence
to take them, just based on common sense
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and realizing all the guys that are
on steroids are the main event guys,
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but Vince telling me
or any other wrestler to take steroids?
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I never saw it.
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Vince isn't going to someone and going,
"Hey, you, go on steroids."
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But would he say,
"Hey, you need to work out harder,"
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thinking they'll go on steroids?
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Um... who knows?
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I wasn't guilty of anything.
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Didn't change the fact these bastards
were coming after me for no good reason.
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So, naturally, I'm concerned.
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This is my liberty,
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and when you're about to hear the--
the verdict, it's like, "Holy shit."
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That's a moment you'll never forget.
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That's a moment whereby
my life is about to change.
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World Wrestling Entertainment
head Vince McMahon
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allowed himself just
the slightest expression of relief
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as the verdict was read.
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The verdict, not guilty.
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Cheers from fans
roared through the courtroom.
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An emotional hug
from his wife of 27 years, Linda.
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I was there. The verdict happened and, uh...
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it was relief.
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it shouldn't have gone to trial.
They didn't have evidence to convict him.
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Hello, I'm Vince McMahon...
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I think they did it because
they thought Vince was a bad guy,
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If you're a newspaper reporter,
you can go after him for that.
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If you're gonna put him on trial,
you have to have more than that.
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If there were any doubters
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as to what World Wrestling Entertainment
was and is all about,
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I think this just cleared up all of them.
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I remember Linda, "It proved
we didn't have a steroid problem."
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And it's like, no,
the case proved, by all testimony,
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that most of your guys were on steroids,
and your biggest stars were on steroids.
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That's what the case proved.
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Gonna try to portray him as the good guy,
but Vince was the bad guy.
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He wasn't convicted,
nor should he have been,
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but he wasn't the good guy.
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I don't know
that I learned really anything.
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The only thing I learned about business is
some people in the government suck.
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World Wrestling...
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Vince always paints himself
as the victim in this trial.
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I don't think it was a surprise
that he was found innocent.
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I don't-- I don't mean to imply
that he should have ended up guilty,
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but there are rumors and reports
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about everything Vince's team did
to try to win.
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Stories of contacting witnesses,
of payoffs, jury tampering,
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all of which paints Vince
in a way that's very different
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than the way
he would like to portray himself.
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Stay tuned...
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So after the trial,
after this whole series of scandals,
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Vince probably felt invincible.
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But that wasn't the case.
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Regardless
of what the outcome was,
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the trial affected business in a huge way.
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Things got tight, and things got scary.
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Some executives left. I don't blame them.
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Would I wish they didn't leave
and what have you?
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Sure I do.
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Uh, because it hurt the company,
the fact that they left.
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During that period,
their business struggled.
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They had years that they lost money.
Their revenues were way down.
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They were, um,
in pretty big financial straits.
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The company took
a huge drop in attendance.
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No more sell-outs.
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Business wasn't the same as it was
when Hulk Hogan was on top.
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What Vince was looking for
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was someone that
would replace Hulk as the face of WWE,
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and Vince thought it could be Lex.
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Made in the USA, Lex Luger!
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We did put the machine,
so to speak, behind Lex Luger
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and thought he was gonna be awesome.
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Let's take a look now
at some footage of the Lex Express.
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Lex was okay, but nowhere near Hulk Hogan.
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I know it, you know it,
everyone out there knows it...
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Lex just wasn't capable
of connecting with the audience.
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Lex was just another
in a long chain of guys
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trying to fill Hulk's shoes.
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They had to replace Hulk Hogan,
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and the guy that pulled the sword
out of the stone was Bret Hart.
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Bret!
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Go get 'em, champ.
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Wow.
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00:09:07,588 --> 00:09:11,467
The New Generation was a new era.
We have new stars. We have Bret Hart.
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You know, in the WWE,
there is a lot of changes.
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{\an8}Then we have Razor Ramon.
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There's only one man
who is oozing machismo.
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We had Kevin Nash.
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On lives the new generation!
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And we have Shawn Michaels.
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I'm the Heartbreak Kid,
Shawn Michaels, Jack.
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I'm the man that made history.
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Once you knew that it was
no longer sort of the Hogan era,
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it kind of just put
a question mark on everything.
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Everything is up for grabs.
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For most of us in the locker room,
it got a bit more hopeful
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that this was kind of anybody's ballgame.
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Hulk's gone, now who's gonna step up?
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That was the mindset.
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And there were plenty of guys
that were waiting to fill that void.
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The guys that we had,
the New Generation guys,
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like myself and Undertaker,
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some of the best wrestlers maybe ever.
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I was kind of proud to be the torchbearer
for the New Generation.
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There were many liabilities
on the company at that time,
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and I was the safest guy.
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Bret Hart's not gonna get busted
with an underage girl in a hotel,
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or, "We found a kilo of cocaine
in his bag."
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It seems to me
that you bring a certain humility.
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That's why Vince said,
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"We're gonna make you champion
for a long time."
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"You can hold the fort while
we deal with all these issues right now."
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Bret comes from the Hart family,
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{\an8}which has produced
many, many performers in the past.
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Very interesting family.
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Bret didn't have all that much charisma.
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He had some, enough.
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So it was kind of nip and tuck
for a while.
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At the same time,
during the course of that,
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Ted Turner starts grabbing
some of the talent,
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so had to deal with that as well.
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Ted opened up the checkbook
and said to the people working there,
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"You can do whatever you want.
Just make this happen."
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WCW is different than WWE,
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because there was
so much more money there.
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I mean, I cut these crazy deals
when I first walked in,
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and it was like dying and going to heaven
as far as the wrestling business.
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The amount of money he was offering them
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was far greater than the amount
they had ever made here,
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so it was logical for a lot of them
to leave and go join Ted's organization.
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And what you gonna do?
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Shortly after Hulk Hogan,
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Randy Savage
all of a sudden became available.
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Unfortunately, Randy Savage
has been unable to sign a contract
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with the WWE...
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That was the next big one.
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That's when things started to really feel
like we had momentum.
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After Hulk jumped on board
and after Randy jumped on board,
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people were looking at WCW
a little differently.
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At one point,
I had a meeting with Ted Turner,
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and he said, "Eric, what's it gonna take
to be competitive with WWE?"
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00:12:01,095 --> 00:12:03,389
I said, "Well, Ted, Monday Night Raw,
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00:12:03,389 --> 00:12:06,642
you know that's on Monday night
on USA prime time, right?"
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00:12:06,642 --> 00:12:10,688
"We're on Saturday night
at 6:05 Eastern, 3:05 Pacific."
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"We can't compete."
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00:12:12,857 --> 00:12:15,067
And without missing a beat,
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00:12:15,067 --> 00:12:17,737
Ted looked over
to the head of TNT and said,
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00:12:17,737 --> 00:12:20,823
"Give Eric two hours
every Monday night on TNT."
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00:12:21,407 --> 00:12:24,076
And I was like, "Wh-- What?!"
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00:12:24,827 --> 00:12:26,579
I just thought it'd be a good idea,
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00:12:26,579 --> 00:12:30,124
that'd at least show that
we've been on the map for so long.
237
00:12:30,124 --> 00:12:33,919
We have been hammerlocked, sucker-punched,
238
00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:36,547
beat up, jumped on, stomped out,
239
00:12:36,547 --> 00:12:38,841
chairs broken over our heads,
240
00:12:38,841 --> 00:12:41,927
all the wrestling stuff,
by Vince for so long,
241
00:12:41,927 --> 00:12:44,805
that I just thought
we'll just go head-to-head with him
242
00:12:44,805 --> 00:12:47,224
and see how it goes.
We'll get in the ring with him.
243
00:12:47,892 --> 00:12:50,227
As soon as I heard
they were gonna go head-to-head,
244
00:12:50,227 --> 00:12:53,230
that was like,
"Ooh-ooh. We're in trouble."
245
00:12:53,814 --> 00:12:55,816
I don't know what's gonna happen,
but won't be good.
246
00:12:56,817 --> 00:12:59,528
Or it was gonna put us
out of business, quite frankly.
247
00:13:00,112 --> 00:13:04,283
Welcome back to the action
here on the debut edition
248
00:13:04,283 --> 00:13:07,787
of WCW Monday Nitro...
249
00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:09,789
Now I've got this thing called Nitro,
250
00:13:09,789 --> 00:13:13,125
I've got to figure out
a way to create some real surprises.
251
00:13:14,668 --> 00:13:17,505
What a matchup
we have got in store.
252
00:13:17,505 --> 00:13:20,633
What?! What in the hell is he doing here?
253
00:13:20,633 --> 00:13:23,886
For their first show,
they had Lex Luger show up.
254
00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:27,264
{\an8}We had him on one of our live events
the Sunday night before,
255
00:13:27,264 --> 00:13:31,060
{\an8}and then he appeared on Nitro
the very next night.
256
00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:32,770
Whoa! Wait a minute!
257
00:13:32,770 --> 00:13:35,022
It was a big surprise.
It was like, "Oh my God."
258
00:13:35,022 --> 00:13:36,565
What are you doing here, Luger?
259
00:13:36,565 --> 00:13:40,069
When Lex walked out,
not only was the audience in shock,
260
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:42,363
but everybody in WWE was in shock,
261
00:13:42,363 --> 00:13:44,657
because they thought
he was still under contract.
262
00:13:45,366 --> 00:13:46,450
And he's not.
263
00:13:48,327 --> 00:13:51,455
It was fortuitous
in the sense of timing
264
00:13:51,455 --> 00:13:54,834
because Lex Luger was tired of WWE.
265
00:13:54,834 --> 00:13:56,502
He wasn't happy there.
266
00:13:56,502 --> 00:13:59,171
So I said, "Lex, here's the deal.
We're gonna do a deal."
267
00:13:59,171 --> 00:14:02,007
"You cannot tell anybody.
You can't tell WWE."
268
00:14:02,007 --> 00:14:03,926
"You just go about your business."
269
00:14:03,926 --> 00:14:06,136
I'm here for one reason...
270
00:14:06,136 --> 00:14:09,098
Yeah, that was embarrassing.
That was really embarrassing.
271
00:14:09,098 --> 00:14:10,850
It pissed Vince off.
272
00:14:11,433 --> 00:14:13,227
It was a beautiful thing.
273
00:14:13,227 --> 00:14:16,146
Lex Luger, you're a good man.
274
00:14:16,146 --> 00:14:19,400
All I had with these guys
was handshakes, not a contract expiring.
275
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,986
I just had handshakes.
It had worked for years.
276
00:14:22,653 --> 00:14:27,116
No longer was it working
because of Ted's enormous wealth.
277
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,871
And I was like,
"Man. Wow, this is brutal."
278
00:14:31,871 --> 00:14:35,207
Because you helped get these talents over,
you helped build them,
279
00:14:35,207 --> 00:14:37,960
then all of a sudden, poof. They're gone.
280
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,420
They'd one-upped us.
281
00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:42,089
It looked like
that was the cool place to go,
282
00:14:42,089 --> 00:14:46,427
that people are leaving WWE to go to WCW
283
00:14:46,427 --> 00:14:48,846
because WCW is new,
it's cool, it's different.
284
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:50,931
Eric was ruthless.
285
00:14:50,931 --> 00:14:53,851
It absolutely set the tone.
And that was the intent.
286
00:14:54,768 --> 00:14:57,521
After realizing I can't be
better than them at what they do,
287
00:14:57,521 --> 00:14:58,647
what are my options?
288
00:14:58,647 --> 00:15:04,236
I started making a list of every way
that I could be different than the WWE.
289
00:15:04,236 --> 00:15:06,363
Top of the list, they're taped.
290
00:15:06,906 --> 00:15:09,033
Hmm. Okay. I'm live.
291
00:15:09,033 --> 00:15:11,827
At Nitro, we are coming to you live!
292
00:15:12,411 --> 00:15:16,248
They're cartoonish, because they're
appealing to a teen and preteen audience.
293
00:15:16,248 --> 00:15:17,875
I'm gonna be more real.
294
00:15:18,459 --> 00:15:21,629
I wanted my characters
to appeal to an older audience.
295
00:15:22,212 --> 00:15:25,382
I wanted my stories
to be more reality-based.
296
00:15:25,382 --> 00:15:27,718
I'm not gonna try
to land my plane over here.
297
00:15:27,718 --> 00:15:29,511
I'm gonna land my plane over here.
298
00:15:31,096 --> 00:15:34,642
I wanted Nitro to be recognized
299
00:15:34,642 --> 00:15:38,896
as the wrestling company where
you never knew what was going to happen.
300
00:15:40,022 --> 00:15:42,358
I knew it was full-blown warfare
from that point on,
301
00:15:42,358 --> 00:15:45,486
because I know how Vince
feels about his competition.
302
00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:47,947
He wants to destroy it and then eat it.
303
00:15:50,407 --> 00:15:54,370
Hello, everybody,
and welcome! We are live!
304
00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:57,331
We are not like
the World Whining Entertainment,
305
00:15:57,331 --> 00:16:00,042
which is a taped, canned show.
306
00:16:00,042 --> 00:16:01,502
I had live TV now,
307
00:16:01,502 --> 00:16:05,589
so I had the ability to do things
that my competition couldn't do.
308
00:16:05,589 --> 00:16:08,842
That gave me
a really strong tactical advantage.
309
00:16:08,842 --> 00:16:12,513
At that time, Monday Night Raw
was still being taped,
310
00:16:13,097 --> 00:16:16,392
and the results
of those tapings were public,
311
00:16:16,392 --> 00:16:19,812
because there were five or six
or seven thousand people in the arena.
312
00:16:19,812 --> 00:16:23,857
As soon as our show would open up,
I would say, "Yeah, we're live
313
00:16:23,857 --> 00:16:27,361
and anything can happen.
Not like those other guys."
314
00:16:27,361 --> 00:16:30,531
"In fact, don't bother watching that show.
Here's what happened."
315
00:16:30,531 --> 00:16:32,241
And I'd give away the finishes.
316
00:16:32,241 --> 00:16:35,119
In case you're tempted
to grab the remote control,
317
00:16:35,119 --> 00:16:37,287
check out the competition, don't bother.
318
00:16:37,287 --> 00:16:39,623
Shawn Michaels beat the big guy
with a superkick.
319
00:16:39,623 --> 00:16:42,543
Stay right here. It's live.
It's where the action is.
320
00:16:43,127 --> 00:16:46,547
They would give away the results.
That hurt us for quite some time.
321
00:16:46,547 --> 00:16:48,340
Aggravated the hell out of us for sure.
322
00:16:48,340 --> 00:16:52,469
It's little things like that
that just went and...
323
00:16:52,469 --> 00:16:55,389
It was digs, constant digs.
324
00:16:55,389 --> 00:16:58,350
I wanted to upset the WWE audience,
325
00:16:59,351 --> 00:17:01,103
because I knew if I upset them enough,
326
00:17:01,103 --> 00:17:04,106
they'd tune in to see
what kind of dastardly stuff
327
00:17:04,106 --> 00:17:06,233
I was gonna do next week.
328
00:17:06,233 --> 00:17:09,695
There were many things that they did
to aggravate the hell out of us,
329
00:17:09,695 --> 00:17:13,323
uh, which, when I'm angered, um,
330
00:17:14,116 --> 00:17:16,035
then I'm gonna focus all the more.
331
00:17:16,910 --> 00:17:19,163
Everybody that I knew
that was close to Vince,
332
00:17:19,163 --> 00:17:23,375
like Hulk, like Randy,
they would say, "Vince will never sell."
333
00:17:23,375 --> 00:17:25,169
He doesn't sell.
334
00:17:25,169 --> 00:17:26,670
He never sold a thing.
335
00:17:26,670 --> 00:17:29,381
Selling is wearing your emotions
on your face.
336
00:17:29,381 --> 00:17:31,341
Yeah, Vince'll never
let you see him sweat.
337
00:17:31,341 --> 00:17:34,678
"Don't sell it.
Never acknowledge the competition."
338
00:17:35,512 --> 00:17:39,767
The more people would tell me that,
the more I'd go, "Watch. I'll get him."
339
00:17:39,767 --> 00:17:42,686
Eric would bring out
our former women's champion
340
00:17:42,686 --> 00:17:44,229
with our championship belt,
341
00:17:44,229 --> 00:17:46,106
and live on their show,
342
00:17:46,106 --> 00:17:47,858
throws it in the trash.
343
00:17:47,858 --> 00:17:49,443
That was upsetting.
344
00:17:49,443 --> 00:17:51,153
It was like, "Oh my God."
345
00:17:51,153 --> 00:17:53,906
"What else are they gonna do to us?"
346
00:17:53,906 --> 00:17:56,909
I kept gnawing at him and biting him
and doing everything I could
347
00:17:56,909 --> 00:17:58,619
to get him to react, and he did.
348
00:17:58,619 --> 00:18:00,412
{\an8} Billionaire Ted. First of all...
349
00:18:00,412 --> 00:18:02,623
{\an8} They started doing
the Billionaire Ted skits.
350
00:18:02,623 --> 00:18:04,875
That was the first real sell.
351
00:18:04,875 --> 00:18:08,295
{\an8}I finally got him to react,
which means he was off balance.
352
00:18:08,295 --> 00:18:11,673
Well, why can't I buy the WWE?
353
00:18:11,673 --> 00:18:15,928
When I saw them, it's like, "Let's tape
these things. I gotta run 'em up to Ted."
354
00:18:15,928 --> 00:18:20,599
We brought them up to Ted,
and Ted laughed his ass off.
355
00:18:20,599 --> 00:18:22,101
He thought they were funny as hell.
356
00:18:23,143 --> 00:18:25,854
That's supposed to be the Hulkster.
357
00:18:25,854 --> 00:18:28,482
I said, "We're trying
to have some fun with him."
358
00:18:28,482 --> 00:18:31,026
And then Kay Koplovitz shut us down.
359
00:18:31,026 --> 00:18:33,070
It was really distasteful.
360
00:18:33,070 --> 00:18:34,738
We didn't like it particularly,
361
00:18:34,738 --> 00:18:36,782
even though
we were competitors with Turner.
362
00:18:36,782 --> 00:18:41,787
It just didn't belong on our air.
It isn't who we wanted to be at USA.
363
00:18:42,496 --> 00:18:46,542
Kay Koplovitz made us stop
because Ted was a friend of hers.
364
00:18:46,542 --> 00:18:50,170
We're friends. Friendly competitors,
I guess you might say.
365
00:18:51,130 --> 00:18:53,632
USA Network
suggested that we stop,
366
00:18:53,632 --> 00:18:58,846
because they were receiving heat
from folks in the Turner organization,
367
00:18:58,846 --> 00:19:01,014
saying, "This is over the line,
368
00:19:01,014 --> 00:19:04,184
and now you're talking about
how much lithium he takes..."
369
00:19:04,184 --> 00:19:05,644
Jane, where's my lithium?
370
00:19:05,644 --> 00:19:08,981
In hindsight,
I wish that we hadn't done that.
371
00:19:09,565 --> 00:19:12,109
I think we should have been above it.
But we did.
372
00:19:12,109 --> 00:19:18,407
{\an8}And that's also where I figured out
Razor Ramon and Diesel,
373
00:19:18,407 --> 00:19:19,658
{\an8}they're not staying.
374
00:19:19,658 --> 00:19:22,578
Because I asked
Razor and Diesel to do one,
375
00:19:22,578 --> 00:19:24,121
and they didn't wanna do it.
376
00:19:24,121 --> 00:19:26,498
"Why wouldn't you do this?"
"Yeah, I just don't want to."
377
00:19:26,498 --> 00:19:29,293
"Are you going there?" "No, no, no."
378
00:19:29,293 --> 00:19:32,963
I had a long conversation,
with Scott Hall, Razor Ramon,
379
00:19:33,547 --> 00:19:35,507
and Diesel, Kevin Nash.
380
00:19:35,507 --> 00:19:38,010
They really didn't wanna go to WCW.
381
00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:41,388
At the same time,
they have to look into the mirror
382
00:19:41,388 --> 00:19:44,057
and have to know, "Wait a minute.
It's better for my family
383
00:19:44,057 --> 00:19:47,394
from a paycheck standpoint
to go there than it is here."
384
00:19:47,394 --> 00:19:49,396
That was just pure money and schedule.
385
00:19:49,396 --> 00:19:51,523
They were offered more money
and a better schedule.
386
00:19:52,357 --> 00:19:55,152
When Scott and Kevin
signed with WCW,
387
00:19:55,152 --> 00:19:57,821
certainly from a professional standpoint,
thrilled for them.
388
00:19:57,821 --> 00:20:02,242
From a personal standpoint, it hurt a bit
because I was gonna miss my buddies.
389
00:20:02,242 --> 00:20:07,497
There was a group of us that
were all friends backstage. "The Kliq."
390
00:20:08,165 --> 00:20:09,416
Kevin Nash,
391
00:20:09,416 --> 00:20:10,918
Scott Hall,
392
00:20:11,418 --> 00:20:13,253
Shawn Michaels,
393
00:20:13,253 --> 00:20:14,504
and myself.
394
00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:18,008
The Kliq sort of became this famous thing
395
00:20:18,842 --> 00:20:20,677
that everybody knew about
396
00:20:20,677 --> 00:20:23,805
even though it was never portrayed on TV.
397
00:20:25,307 --> 00:20:30,562
{\an8}So, you flash forward to the final night
of Diesel and Razor Ramon.
398
00:20:31,396 --> 00:20:34,399
It's not a pay-per-view.
It's a live event with no TV.
399
00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:38,320
Earlier in the day,
Shawn had talked to Vince
400
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,949
about doing some kind of tribute
to those guys at the end of the night,
401
00:20:41,949 --> 00:20:44,952
and Vince agrees to,
"Something can happen."
402
00:20:44,952 --> 00:20:47,704
I remember him asking me,
"Is it important to you, Shawn?"
403
00:20:47,704 --> 00:20:51,083
I said, "Yes, sir." And he goes,
"Then it's important to me. Go ahead."
404
00:20:51,083 --> 00:20:55,879
Since two of them were leaving,
you know, "Okay. You got my blessing."
405
00:20:57,047 --> 00:21:01,134
Kevin and Shawn
were wrestling each other in a cage match.
406
00:21:01,134 --> 00:21:05,597
They get to the end of the match,
and we all end up in the cage together.
407
00:21:05,597 --> 00:21:08,392
There's this big embrace moment.
408
00:21:08,392 --> 00:21:11,270
Oh yeah!
409
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:13,605
Basically, a curtain call.
410
00:21:14,564 --> 00:21:21,321
From an old-timer, uh, it was
sacrilege to have rivals do that
411
00:21:21,321 --> 00:21:25,367
and to just let everybody know,
"Hey, guys. You know, show's over."
412
00:21:25,367 --> 00:21:28,120
"We really love each other.
Everything's good."
413
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,289
I was actually there
at the Garden that night.
414
00:21:30,872 --> 00:21:33,750
I'm sitting there in the audience
like, "What is this?"
415
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:36,962
"I can't believe they're doing this.
My dad's gonna be so mad."
416
00:21:36,962 --> 00:21:39,506
Part of me thought
it was a little bit cool,
417
00:21:39,506 --> 00:21:42,342
but part of me was like,
"Oh, I know how wrong this is."
418
00:21:42,342 --> 00:21:44,845
To anyone of my age, it was cool.
419
00:21:45,429 --> 00:21:50,058
But to your older generation
of producers and wrestlers,
420
00:21:50,058 --> 00:21:51,977
it was the cardinal sin.
421
00:21:52,811 --> 00:21:56,189
I wasn't there that night,
but, yeah, I was with the company.
422
00:21:56,189 --> 00:21:59,735
- Yeah, I got thoughts on that. Yeah.
- What are your thoughts?
423
00:21:59,735 --> 00:22:00,861
I didn't like it.
424
00:22:00,861 --> 00:22:02,446
They killed wrestling that day.
425
00:22:03,530 --> 00:22:05,574
That was when wrestling
wasn't real anymore.
426
00:22:05,574 --> 00:22:08,535
We'd pulled the curtain back
and said, "This is how it works."
427
00:22:08,535 --> 00:22:11,955
That was the unveiling of
the new direction that wrestling would be.
428
00:22:11,955 --> 00:22:15,584
It's not wrestling anymore.
It's entertainment.
429
00:22:16,501 --> 00:22:19,755
When they came back out of the...
out of the ring,
430
00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:23,342
well, there were a number of performers
other than them
431
00:22:23,342 --> 00:22:25,635
who really hit the roof.
Like I can't imagine...
432
00:22:25,635 --> 00:22:27,971
It was what we call
a kayfabe type situation.
433
00:22:27,971 --> 00:22:33,477
So if you go back
to the way the business was,
434
00:22:33,477 --> 00:22:34,978
there's a thing called kayfabe.
435
00:22:34,978 --> 00:22:38,231
Kayfabe.
436
00:22:38,231 --> 00:22:42,110
Kayfabe is a carnival term, initially.
437
00:22:42,110 --> 00:22:49,034
Kayfabe is the fiction
that is being produced by a con artist
438
00:22:49,034 --> 00:22:54,414
where everybody who's involved in the con
agrees to maintain this reality.
439
00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:59,544
Kayfabe is basically
keeping the illusion that it's real.
440
00:22:59,544 --> 00:23:02,631
You say "kayfabe," and you know
that you gotta be in character
441
00:23:03,340 --> 00:23:04,925
and pretend everything is real.
442
00:23:04,925 --> 00:23:07,427
You know, good guys stayed with good guys,
443
00:23:07,427 --> 00:23:09,388
and bad guys stayed with bad guys,
444
00:23:09,388 --> 00:23:11,431
and never should the two intermingle.
445
00:23:11,431 --> 00:23:17,437
And for years and years,
we tried to work off of the premise
446
00:23:17,437 --> 00:23:20,732
that wrestling was not predetermined,
447
00:23:20,732 --> 00:23:24,736
and that when you had a feud
with somebody, it was a blood feud,
448
00:23:24,736 --> 00:23:27,906
and it carried on outside of the ring.
449
00:23:27,906 --> 00:23:31,159
The way I came up,
and in the time period I came up,
450
00:23:31,159 --> 00:23:34,371
I, I lived that,
and I believed in that mindset,
451
00:23:34,371 --> 00:23:39,418
even though I knew,
like, they know that I'm a real person,
452
00:23:39,418 --> 00:23:42,295
I always wanted to cast that doubt, like,
453
00:23:42,295 --> 00:23:44,589
"That dude is legit not right."
454
00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:47,342
"He thinks he is that guy."
455
00:23:47,342 --> 00:23:51,847
I kind of protected the business
and protected the character so much.
456
00:23:51,847 --> 00:23:55,350
I was just always trying
to keep people intrigued.
457
00:23:56,476 --> 00:23:59,771
But it was becoming this antiquated thing.
Like, everybody knew.
458
00:24:00,605 --> 00:24:05,277
In that period of time, there were what
were called newsletters, dirt sheets,
459
00:24:05,277 --> 00:24:07,904
with a lot of rumor and innuendo.
460
00:24:07,904 --> 00:24:09,614
So, if you went to a show,
461
00:24:09,614 --> 00:24:12,659
people are talking about
what's real and what's not.
462
00:24:12,659 --> 00:24:16,663
I honestly don't have any idea
why kayfabe and all that
463
00:24:16,663 --> 00:24:17,914
was still so important.
464
00:24:17,914 --> 00:24:20,834
And I guess that was our point
with the curtain call.
465
00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:23,128
We felt like everybody already knew then.
466
00:24:23,837 --> 00:24:27,257
What was sincerely meant to be
just an innocent act
467
00:24:27,257 --> 00:24:29,050
turned into such controversy.
468
00:24:29,634 --> 00:24:32,762
I felt like, "I don't know,
was I talked into this?"
469
00:24:32,762 --> 00:24:33,930
"Was I not?"
470
00:24:33,930 --> 00:24:35,348
You know, I let it happen.
471
00:24:35,348 --> 00:24:38,351
At the same time,
I can't let it happen again.
472
00:24:38,351 --> 00:24:41,062
So, um, there were some repercussions.
473
00:24:41,646 --> 00:24:47,110
Kev's gone, Scott's gone,
Shawn's WWE champion.
474
00:24:48,403 --> 00:24:50,113
Heads are gonna roll,
475
00:24:50,113 --> 00:24:53,992
but it's gonna only be one,
and it's going to be mine.
476
00:24:53,992 --> 00:24:56,244
Somebody has to pay for that,
477
00:24:56,244 --> 00:24:59,206
and, you know,
in that particular case, it was Hunter.
478
00:25:00,123 --> 00:25:03,084
So, at that point in time,
I was supposed to win King of the Ring,
479
00:25:03,084 --> 00:25:05,086
and that's all gonna go away.
480
00:25:05,086 --> 00:25:09,090
I said, "You know, Vince,
the one thing that's crazy to me..."
481
00:25:10,091 --> 00:25:15,055
"...the biggest reaction of the night
by far was that moment."
482
00:25:15,055 --> 00:25:17,224
"The world is changing,
483
00:25:17,224 --> 00:25:19,893
and we're going to have
to change with it, I think."
484
00:25:19,893 --> 00:25:22,687
And he said,
"Yeah, but it's not right now."
485
00:25:23,230 --> 00:25:26,024
"I gotta do something.
I can't just let this go."
486
00:25:26,024 --> 00:25:28,985
And to quote Vince,
"You're going to have to learn to eat shit
487
00:25:28,985 --> 00:25:30,320
and like the taste of it."
488
00:25:31,238 --> 00:25:36,076
Vince was not yet ready to adapt,
to evolve into the modern age.
489
00:25:36,076 --> 00:25:38,161
But WCW was.
490
00:25:41,081 --> 00:25:44,251
Welcome back live
to the first hour of this edition
491
00:25:44,251 --> 00:25:46,336
of WCW Monday Nitro on TNT.
492
00:25:46,336 --> 00:25:49,172
I'd been thinking about this storyline
in my head for a long time.
493
00:25:49,172 --> 00:25:50,966
Called it "The Outsiders."
494
00:25:50,966 --> 00:25:53,802
But I couldn't quite make it work
the way I wanted to make it work
495
00:25:53,802 --> 00:25:55,595
because I didn't have the right talent.
496
00:25:56,721 --> 00:26:00,642
And now with Scott coming in
and Kevin Nash becoming available,
497
00:26:00,642 --> 00:26:02,936
I now have the perfect cast.
498
00:26:02,936 --> 00:26:06,648
You people, you know who I am.
499
00:26:09,442 --> 00:26:13,613
But you don't know why I'm here.
500
00:26:13,613 --> 00:26:19,619
It was two guys coming in from the outside
to wreak havoc inside of WCW.
501
00:26:20,287 --> 00:26:22,581
This is where the big boys play, huh?
502
00:26:23,999 --> 00:26:25,667
We ain't here to play.
503
00:26:26,751 --> 00:26:30,297
The Outsiders
showing up and coming to WCW
504
00:26:30,297 --> 00:26:32,549
is maybe the last example
505
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:35,427
of where fans could not fully tell,
506
00:26:35,427 --> 00:26:37,220
"Is this real?"
507
00:26:38,138 --> 00:26:42,434
The way I brought them in,
some of the less-than-nuanced dialogue,
508
00:26:42,434 --> 00:26:46,980
led certain people to believe
that they were there on WWE's behalf.
509
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:50,609
Do you work for the WWE?
510
00:26:50,609 --> 00:26:54,487
The audience wasn't sure
if it was real or if it was scripted.
511
00:26:54,487 --> 00:26:56,156
That's the sweet spot.
512
00:26:56,156 --> 00:26:58,366
You don't jack us around. Don't jack us...
513
00:26:58,366 --> 00:27:01,077
- Oh, for crying-- Oh!
-
514
00:27:01,077 --> 00:27:02,162
What are they doing?
515
00:27:02,162 --> 00:27:04,831
- Security!
- Get up there right now!
516
00:27:07,751 --> 00:27:09,461
Call security!
517
00:27:10,086 --> 00:27:12,088
It was a hell of a great idea.
518
00:27:12,088 --> 00:27:14,924
Worked so well that Vince McMahon
decided he had to sue us.
519
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,431
We sued them because they were
trampling on our intellectual property.
520
00:27:21,431 --> 00:27:24,351
They were presenting Scott Hall
as Razor Ramon.
521
00:27:24,351 --> 00:27:27,228
They didn't say his name was Razor Ramon,
522
00:27:27,812 --> 00:27:30,190
but it was as close to Razor Ramon
as you could get
523
00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,651
without saying, "Hey, Razor Ramon."
524
00:27:33,151 --> 00:27:34,319
You're stealing.
525
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:37,697
You know, that's--
That's not the right way to do business.
526
00:27:38,406 --> 00:27:41,576
Eh, stealing is in the eye
of the beholder, isn't it?
527
00:27:41,576 --> 00:27:46,831
It's funny, because immediately,
Vince went into sympathetic babyface mode.
528
00:27:46,831 --> 00:27:49,626
He started whining
like a little schoolgirl with that.
529
00:27:49,626 --> 00:27:52,462
"Big bad billionaire Ted's
trying to run us out of business."
530
00:27:52,462 --> 00:27:56,424
When you have the resources
of a, uh, of a Ted Turner,
531
00:27:56,424 --> 00:27:59,678
and you use these resources
in a predatory fashion
532
00:27:59,678 --> 00:28:04,099
in an effort to put
a family-owned business out of action,
533
00:28:04,099 --> 00:28:05,141
I think it's time...
534
00:28:05,141 --> 00:28:07,310
"Big bad billionaire Ted
535
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:11,106
is trying to hurt this
small little family-run business."
536
00:28:11,106 --> 00:28:13,983
There has been a systematic, uh, attempt
537
00:28:13,983 --> 00:28:17,529
to raid the World Wrestling Entertainment
of its talent.
538
00:28:17,529 --> 00:28:19,072
"They raided our talent."
539
00:28:20,365 --> 00:28:23,827
Vince did the exact same thing
to Verne Gagne and the AWA
540
00:28:23,827 --> 00:28:24,911
and other territories.
541
00:28:24,911 --> 00:28:30,041
{\an8}He literally went into those territories
and offered their talent better deals.
542
00:28:30,041 --> 00:28:34,421
That is exactly the MO
of Vince McMahon in 1984 and 1985.
543
00:28:34,421 --> 00:28:37,841
He took stars other people had created
in certain parts of the country
544
00:28:37,841 --> 00:28:40,135
and signed them up for more money,
545
00:28:40,135 --> 00:28:42,429
and God bless him, he had the right to.
Free enterprise.
546
00:28:42,429 --> 00:28:45,432
But they had the right to do it too,
because it's free enterprise.
547
00:28:45,432 --> 00:28:49,394
One of your quotes was that
Turner engaged in predatory practices.
548
00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:50,729
- Right.
- Did you...
549
00:28:50,729 --> 00:28:55,400
You didn't see any similarity
to what you were doing in the territories?
550
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,069
No. Again, Ted's philosophy was,
551
00:28:58,069 --> 00:29:00,405
"Let's go hurt.
I'm gonna hurt my competitor."
552
00:29:00,405 --> 00:29:03,575
And that's not mine. I wanna go compete.
553
00:29:03,575 --> 00:29:06,745
You didn't look at
what Ted was doing as competing?
554
00:29:06,745 --> 00:29:07,871
Sure, I did.
555
00:29:09,456 --> 00:29:12,125
You said your philosophy
is different than Ted's.
556
00:29:12,125 --> 00:29:14,502
- He's trying to hurt the person.
- Right. Correct.
557
00:29:15,879 --> 00:29:18,381
Some would think it might be hypocritical
for me to say,
558
00:29:18,381 --> 00:29:22,385
"Uh, okay, I don't hurt someone else.
I just do what's best for me."
559
00:29:23,011 --> 00:29:26,681
Yet, when someone comes after me,
I don't think they have the right.
560
00:29:26,681 --> 00:29:29,893
Sure, they have the right.
Again, what I say a lot of times
561
00:29:29,893 --> 00:29:32,270
is totally different than what I think.
562
00:29:32,270 --> 00:29:36,441
Um, and the public
doesn't understand that sometimes.
563
00:29:36,441 --> 00:29:40,153
As a businessman,
you have to throw things out there.
564
00:29:40,153 --> 00:29:42,405
It's not really the way you feel,
565
00:29:42,405 --> 00:29:43,490
but...
566
00:29:44,491 --> 00:29:47,744
it controls thought process by doing that.
567
00:29:50,288 --> 00:29:52,791
Vince is going to do
whatever it takes
568
00:29:52,791 --> 00:29:55,376
to be successful on the business side.
569
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:02,133
And during the Monday Night Wars,
WCW was challenging us to fight.
570
00:30:03,134 --> 00:30:08,640
A lot of people would tell you
that when Hall and Nash went to WCW,
571
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,100
that that was the turning point.
572
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:13,812
But if you go back
and you really look at the numbers
573
00:30:13,812 --> 00:30:15,563
and you look at everything that happened,
574
00:30:15,563 --> 00:30:19,734
what really turned the corner for WCW
575
00:30:19,734 --> 00:30:21,152
was the Bash at the Beach,
576
00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:25,615
where The Outsiders
were going to bring in the third member.
577
00:30:25,615 --> 00:30:26,783
Who's it going to be?
578
00:30:27,742 --> 00:30:30,245
I was there
at the Bash at the Beach,
579
00:30:30,245 --> 00:30:34,457
and Scott Hall and Kevin Nash
have come from WWE
580
00:30:34,457 --> 00:30:36,292
to almost wreck shop.
581
00:30:36,292 --> 00:30:38,711
They were bad guys on this mission,
582
00:30:38,711 --> 00:30:42,298
and they were claiming
that they had a third man.
583
00:30:42,298 --> 00:30:45,093
He's here, and he's ready.
584
00:30:45,093 --> 00:30:49,264
Now the "Who's the Third Man?" mystery
is out there in the audience, right?
585
00:30:49,264 --> 00:30:52,350
The third man is here,
but he's not in the ring.
586
00:30:54,561 --> 00:30:57,355
Now we're looking
at two-on-two in this hostile takeover.
587
00:30:57,355 --> 00:31:00,316
Scott Hall
and Kevin Nash were winning.
588
00:31:01,693 --> 00:31:05,196
And so, Hulk Hogan's coming out
to make the save.
589
00:31:05,196 --> 00:31:07,824
- Hulk Hogan is here!
- Damn right he is!
590
00:31:07,824 --> 00:31:09,200
Get 'em, Hulkster!
591
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,703
When I walked out
at Bash at the Beach,
592
00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:13,580
Kevin Nash and Scott Hall
ran for their lives,
593
00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:16,249
Yes, sir! Get 'em, Hogan!
594
00:31:16,249 --> 00:31:19,919
The roof was coming off.
The hero was coming to save the day.
595
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:22,714
Hulk Hogan arrives-- Hulk!
596
00:31:22,714 --> 00:31:24,382
What's he doing?!
597
00:31:24,382 --> 00:31:26,551
- Is he the third man?
- Third man!
598
00:31:26,551 --> 00:31:28,678
What the hell is going on?!
599
00:31:28,678 --> 00:31:32,223
When Hulk finally
dropped the leg on Randy Savage,
600
00:31:32,223 --> 00:31:34,934
people were literally shocked.
601
00:31:34,934 --> 00:31:37,520
- What the hell is going on?!
- Oh God!
602
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,733
It was a huge defining moment
in all of sports entertainment,
603
00:31:41,733 --> 00:31:46,487
because it was surreal to think
that the biggest babyface,
604
00:31:46,487 --> 00:31:50,033
the biggest good guy
in the history of the industry,
605
00:31:50,617 --> 00:31:52,493
is gonna go the other way.
606
00:31:52,493 --> 00:31:53,953
Feels it all.
607
00:31:53,953 --> 00:31:55,997
Hulksters with tears rolling down.
608
00:31:55,997 --> 00:31:59,709
You can't turn Hulk Hogan bad.
You can't do that.
609
00:32:00,627 --> 00:32:04,005
That was a big "holy shit" moment.
610
00:32:04,005 --> 00:32:07,300
- A career of a lifetime.
- Right down the drain, kid.
611
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:10,053
When I walked out
to be a bad guy,
612
00:32:10,053 --> 00:32:12,847
I knew this was either gonna be
the greatest moment of my career
613
00:32:12,847 --> 00:32:14,807
or this would destroy my career.
614
00:32:16,309 --> 00:32:20,688
That's the first time I'd ever been told
there's a thing that's too much heat.
615
00:32:20,688 --> 00:32:22,190
And maybe this was.
616
00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:26,694
That rumble was there.
It got kinda quiet. I'm like, "Shit."
617
00:32:26,694 --> 00:32:29,238
I know we didn't have anybody
watching the ring
618
00:32:29,238 --> 00:32:31,240
in case they started coming.
619
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,368
Back in the day,
I was used to them coming.
620
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,331
{\an8} What do we got here?
We got a fan coming in.
621
00:32:38,331 --> 00:32:39,999
He didn't last long.
622
00:32:39,999 --> 00:32:43,753
There were people throwing stuff
in the ring and booing and screaming.
623
00:32:43,753 --> 00:32:45,546
There were people crying.
624
00:32:45,546 --> 00:32:48,466
I never thought I'd see
people throwing debris...
625
00:32:48,466 --> 00:32:50,635
- At Hulk Hogan.
- ...at Hogan.
626
00:32:50,635 --> 00:32:53,179
It was the most amazing moment
of my career.
627
00:32:53,179 --> 00:32:56,474
When you want to get
everything you can out of the audience,
628
00:32:56,474 --> 00:32:58,768
sometimes it's gotta be uncomfortable.
629
00:32:59,435 --> 00:33:04,732
And it was just a very strong
punch to the gut for wrestling fans.
630
00:33:04,732 --> 00:33:07,235
When they made Hogan a heel,
631
00:33:07,235 --> 00:33:10,029
had that been something
you guys were considering ever?
632
00:33:10,029 --> 00:33:12,407
No. Terry and I always thought
633
00:33:12,407 --> 00:33:14,993
that we would simply
keep Hulk Hogan as a good guy,
634
00:33:14,993 --> 00:33:17,704
always be someone standing up for justice.
635
00:33:19,205 --> 00:33:22,709
Vince McMahon missed out
on the most lucrative opportunity.
636
00:33:22,709 --> 00:33:25,586
He could've been the one
to turn Hulk Hogan heel.
637
00:33:26,504 --> 00:33:28,715
Every piece of trash
that got thrown in the ring
638
00:33:28,715 --> 00:33:32,760
was like a gold brick
as far as WCW was concerned.
639
00:33:33,553 --> 00:33:38,474
When he did turn heel, it was like, "Wow."
He did that very well.
640
00:33:38,474 --> 00:33:41,352
A lot of fans forget that I was a bad guy
641
00:33:41,352 --> 00:33:44,731
when I first went to the WWE
to work for Vince's father,
642
00:33:44,731 --> 00:33:47,734
so it wasn't like
this was my first barbecue.
643
00:33:47,734 --> 00:33:52,405
And so I just slid into that
Snidely Whiplash evil Hollywood character.
644
00:33:52,405 --> 00:33:55,908
Tell these people to shut up
if you wanna hear what I gotta say.
645
00:33:57,285 --> 00:33:59,829
I went out there, and I wheeled
that promo from my hip, man.
646
00:33:59,829 --> 00:34:01,706
That was nobody talking but me.
647
00:34:02,457 --> 00:34:08,588
These two men right here came from
a great big organization up north.
648
00:34:08,588 --> 00:34:11,549
I made that organization a monster.
649
00:34:11,549 --> 00:34:13,926
I made people rich up there.
650
00:34:13,926 --> 00:34:16,637
I wanted
to push hard against Vince
651
00:34:16,637 --> 00:34:19,724
to prove a point that
it takes two to tango.
652
00:34:19,724 --> 00:34:24,145
It just wasn't one guy that did all this.
It just wasn't Vince that did all this.
653
00:34:24,145 --> 00:34:29,817
The man Hulk Hogan got bigger
than the whole organization, brother.
654
00:34:29,817 --> 00:34:32,612
In those days,
it was a personal relationship
655
00:34:32,612 --> 00:34:34,489
as well as a business one.
656
00:34:35,198 --> 00:34:38,159
And when business goes wrong,
generally speaking,
657
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,203
the personal relationship goes wrong.
658
00:34:40,203 --> 00:34:43,331
Vince is very much "business is business."
659
00:34:43,331 --> 00:34:50,088
However, there are certain times
where the human being gets hurt.
660
00:34:50,088 --> 00:34:52,840
With Hogan, it was personal.
661
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,051
That was the moment in time that...
662
00:34:56,010 --> 00:34:57,178
shit changed.
663
00:34:57,178 --> 00:35:03,643
You can call this
the New World Order of Wrestling, brother.
664
00:35:03,643 --> 00:35:06,729
The Outsiders
eventually became the nWo storyline.
665
00:35:06,729 --> 00:35:10,441
Here's the nWo!
666
00:35:10,441 --> 00:35:12,610
Ready or not, here we come!
667
00:35:13,653 --> 00:35:17,156
nWo was coming in
to take over WCW
668
00:35:17,156 --> 00:35:21,452
and take all their biggest stars,
and eventually overcome WCW.
669
00:35:21,452 --> 00:35:25,748
The nWo is the only way to go!
670
00:35:25,748 --> 00:35:28,960
Yes, it was a storyline.
Yes, they were characters.
671
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,254
But in every sense of the word,
672
00:35:31,254 --> 00:35:36,217
the nWo brand was in many respects
more powerful than the WCW brand.
673
00:35:36,926 --> 00:35:39,679
During that period of time,
WCW was cool.
674
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,973
It had the cool factor going on.
675
00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:45,143
I started to see the WWE as "less than."
676
00:35:45,143 --> 00:35:50,106
New World Order. It was edgy,
like nothing that anyone had ever seen.
677
00:35:50,106 --> 00:35:53,609
And they started kicking our ass
week after week after week.
678
00:35:54,193 --> 00:35:55,945
When Hulk became a bad guy?
679
00:35:58,197 --> 00:35:59,031
Switched.
680
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:04,036
And they beat us in the ratings,
and they didn't look back for 83 weeks.
681
00:36:04,036 --> 00:36:06,289
How many weeks? 83 straight weeks!
682
00:36:06,289 --> 00:36:07,748
For 83 straight weeks!
683
00:36:07,748 --> 00:36:10,918
For 83 weeks? Was it 83, or was it 84?
684
00:36:10,918 --> 00:36:12,712
My podcast is called 83 Weeks.
685
00:36:12,712 --> 00:36:18,009
For 83 straight weeks,
we were stomping a mudhole in WWE.
686
00:36:18,009 --> 00:36:20,178
We were so far ahead of them,
it wasn't funny.
687
00:36:21,095 --> 00:36:25,099
{\an8}For us to be winning,
you know, week after week after week,
688
00:36:25,099 --> 00:36:26,392
{\an8}it became infectious.
689
00:36:26,392 --> 00:36:30,438
We thought we had the strongest team,
the better stories...
690
00:36:31,022 --> 00:36:32,440
No way we thought we could lose.
691
00:36:33,149 --> 00:36:36,235
Not only are they kicking our butts
in the ratings, they're mocking us.
692
00:36:36,235 --> 00:36:38,988
They're really having their way with us.
693
00:36:39,572 --> 00:36:44,327
This was a war, and I didn't know
whether or not we'd even stay in business,
694
00:36:44,327 --> 00:36:46,996
because Turner was coming after us.
695
00:36:46,996 --> 00:36:49,540
I'm either all the way in,
or I'm all the way out.
696
00:36:50,416 --> 00:36:54,212
So, once we committed
to go after Vince, I was all in.
697
00:36:54,212 --> 00:36:56,547
Is there any question now
698
00:36:56,547 --> 00:37:01,928
what is the most powerful organization
in professional wrestling?
699
00:37:01,928 --> 00:37:06,098
At some point, it was suggested to me
that I become a part of the nWo,
700
00:37:06,098 --> 00:37:07,475
and it-- it made sense.
701
00:37:07,475 --> 00:37:08,976
I'm Eric Bischoff!
702
00:37:08,976 --> 00:37:13,981
Because I was running WCW,
I was recognized as the president of WCW.
703
00:37:13,981 --> 00:37:16,776
- Bischoff!
- Look who is leading them!
704
00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:21,656
Who better to take over than the guy
that's actually writing the checks?
705
00:37:21,656 --> 00:37:25,326
For this man, I would do anything.
706
00:37:25,326 --> 00:37:27,328
In the beginning
of Monday Night Wars,
707
00:37:27,328 --> 00:37:30,623
I don't think that Vince
even considered Eric Bischoff.
708
00:37:30,623 --> 00:37:35,169
Vince looked at the Monday Night Wars
as something between Vince and Ted.
709
00:37:35,169 --> 00:37:38,256
When you go back
and you listen to the interviews,
710
00:37:38,256 --> 00:37:40,591
Vince always talked about Ted Turner.
711
00:37:40,591 --> 00:37:42,218
Ted Turner's wrestling organization...
712
00:37:42,218 --> 00:37:44,220
Ted Turner tried
to put him out of business.
713
00:37:44,220 --> 00:37:45,972
Ted Turner this, Ted Turner that.
714
00:37:45,972 --> 00:37:47,306
- Ted Turner...
- Ted Turner...
715
00:37:47,306 --> 00:37:51,143
Ted... Ted... Ted, trying to own
World Wrestling Entertainment.
716
00:37:51,143 --> 00:37:53,813
Was Vince McMahon
going to come out and say,
717
00:37:53,813 --> 00:37:57,108
"Hey, this guy named Eric Bischoff
that's never been a wrestling executive,
718
00:37:57,108 --> 00:38:00,569
has only been in a creative role
for about a year and a half,
719
00:38:00,569 --> 00:38:03,322
is kicking my butt every week
for 83 weeks"?
720
00:38:03,322 --> 00:38:05,825
He wanted the perception of the battle
721
00:38:05,825 --> 00:38:10,121
to be between
Ted Turner the billionaire media mogul
722
00:38:10,121 --> 00:38:12,123
and little old Vince McMahon.
723
00:38:12,123 --> 00:38:15,167
That elevated Vince,
it made him the sympathetic babyface,
724
00:38:15,167 --> 00:38:17,545
which is exactly what Vince wanted.
725
00:38:18,587 --> 00:38:20,298
Do you remember the first time
726
00:38:20,298 --> 00:38:22,383
hearing about Eric Bischoff?
727
00:38:22,383 --> 00:38:26,178
Um, I didn't know--
Well, actually, I didn't realize this,
728
00:38:26,887 --> 00:38:32,852
{\an8}but years before, Eric had come to WWE
and auditioned as a television announcer.
729
00:38:33,561 --> 00:38:34,979
Who's your hero, Eric?
730
00:38:34,979 --> 00:38:37,481
My hero? Hulk Hogan, absolutely.
731
00:38:37,982 --> 00:38:40,651
The man, the myth, the legend.
732
00:38:40,651 --> 00:38:43,779
And I didn't get the job.
I was very disappointed.
733
00:38:44,363 --> 00:38:47,533
Did you regret
not hiring him when you saw him show up?
734
00:38:47,533 --> 00:38:49,660
- Regret not hiring him?
- Yeah.
735
00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:50,661
Um...
736
00:38:51,662 --> 00:38:53,331
- No.
- You don't regret it?
737
00:38:53,331 --> 00:38:56,667
Um... I don't think I regret
anything in my life.
738
00:38:58,919 --> 00:39:02,381
Eric did everything
he possibly could do, as anyone would,
739
00:39:02,923 --> 00:39:05,760
but everything that they basically did
740
00:39:06,552 --> 00:39:09,138
pretty much was a WWE creation
to begin with,
741
00:39:09,805 --> 00:39:13,893
including when Turner took our talent
that we had created.
742
00:39:15,978 --> 00:39:20,191
At that time,
I wanted to hang on to one of my stars.
743
00:39:20,191 --> 00:39:21,650
So I made a deal with Bret.
744
00:39:21,650 --> 00:39:24,028
He flew up to Calgary,
flew up to my house,
745
00:39:24,028 --> 00:39:27,406
and gave me his offer
of a 20-year contract.
746
00:39:27,406 --> 00:39:32,328
I owe it all to my WWE fans.
I'll be with the WWE forever.
747
00:39:34,205 --> 00:39:37,249
All right! All right!
748
00:39:37,249 --> 00:39:39,668
As soon as I signed, I said,
"This isn't gonna be good."
749
00:39:39,668 --> 00:39:41,379
"Wrong thing ego-wise."
750
00:39:41,379 --> 00:39:44,799
It's a-- It was a bad move,
bad business move to try and keep Bret.
751
00:39:44,799 --> 00:39:46,300
"I had to keep Bret."
752
00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:51,097
"No, dumbass Vince, you didn't have to.
Just create new stars, Vince."
753
00:39:51,097 --> 00:39:54,475
So in any event, now there's
a big contract, and it's not working.
754
00:39:54,475 --> 00:39:58,896
So I go to Bret, and I said,
"Bret, look, I can't afford to pay you
755
00:39:58,896 --> 00:40:00,272
what I'm paying you now."
756
00:40:00,272 --> 00:40:04,318
My dad took Bret's contract
and showed Bret where the loopholes were,
757
00:40:04,318 --> 00:40:08,364
and said, "You can use this as leverage
to help negotiate yourself
758
00:40:08,364 --> 00:40:10,449
a much better deal with WCW."
759
00:40:11,992 --> 00:40:16,455
So Bret went for the other guys
and, uh, was paid a lot of money.
760
00:40:16,455 --> 00:40:19,959
Bret Hart happened to be
the WWE champion at the time.
761
00:40:19,959 --> 00:40:23,129
All that my dad expected back was for Bret
762
00:40:23,129 --> 00:40:25,965
to do the right thing business-wise
since he was leaving
763
00:40:25,965 --> 00:40:28,551
and lose to Shawn Michaels.
764
00:40:28,551 --> 00:40:33,097
"You know, Bret, you have the property
around your waist that belonged to WWE."
765
00:40:33,097 --> 00:40:37,017
"It didn't belong to you.
You didn't win it, you were granted that."
766
00:40:37,017 --> 00:40:40,855
"I can't let you go to Turner
with the WWE championship belt."
767
00:40:40,855 --> 00:40:42,356
"That doesn't make any sense."
768
00:40:42,356 --> 00:40:44,233
Bret had different ideas.
769
00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:48,988
Everybody felt like he should
drop the title to somebody before he goes,
770
00:40:48,988 --> 00:40:52,491
and I don't even think
Bret had a problem losing the match.
771
00:40:53,492 --> 00:40:55,286
It was losing it to me.
772
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,165
Shawn was a real dick at that time,
773
00:41:00,166 --> 00:41:01,667
and that's just the truth.
774
00:41:02,251 --> 00:41:07,673
The Bret and Shawn rivalry thing,
it was real and authentic.
775
00:41:07,673 --> 00:41:12,094
Both Bret and I felt that Vince
and the WWE were kind of capitalizing
776
00:41:12,094 --> 00:41:15,389
on this real-life dissension that we had.
777
00:41:15,389 --> 00:41:20,019
Shawn and Bret, two great performers, uh...
were not getting along.
778
00:41:20,686 --> 00:41:23,564
Shawn starting cutting
what we call shooting promos.
779
00:41:23,564 --> 00:41:26,484
They would go off-script
and say something personal.
780
00:41:26,484 --> 00:41:29,570
He stabbed World Wrestling Entertainment
in the back.
781
00:41:29,570 --> 00:41:33,824
Why? For his financial gain.
782
00:41:33,824 --> 00:41:35,284
After a while,
783
00:41:35,284 --> 00:41:37,786
you begin to know what bothers somebody,
784
00:41:37,786 --> 00:41:40,414
and, man, I poked that bear
like nobody's business.
785
00:41:40,414 --> 00:41:43,918
I was... Look, I was such a prick.
786
00:41:44,835 --> 00:41:48,714
I came close to punching Shawn
quite a few times.
787
00:41:48,714 --> 00:41:52,801
Even though, lately,
you've had some "sunny" days, my friend...
788
00:41:52,801 --> 00:41:58,057
{\an8} Telling on national TV that
I'm banging Sunny, when I'm a married man,
789
00:41:58,057 --> 00:42:01,769
you're crossing a line
where you're messing with my family.
790
00:42:01,769 --> 00:42:06,315
You're messing with me
on a personal level, and it's bullshit.
791
00:42:06,315 --> 00:42:08,901
What were your thoughts about that?
792
00:42:08,901 --> 00:42:12,321
My thoughts at the time was,
"Well, this is good for television."
793
00:42:12,321 --> 00:42:14,990
{\an8} The Survivor Series,
presented live by Milton Bradley...
794
00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:17,535
{\an8} So we had
this last match in Montreal.
795
00:42:18,285 --> 00:42:20,621
{\an8}"Bret, I want you to do the honors
for Shawn tonight,
796
00:42:20,621 --> 00:42:24,291
uh, because we need
someone to replace you."
797
00:42:24,291 --> 00:42:27,086
And Bret said,
"Well, I don't wanna do that."
798
00:42:28,128 --> 00:42:30,005
"Especially in Canada."
799
00:42:30,005 --> 00:42:35,594
There was a... a phone call that happened
with Shawn, myself, and Vince.
800
00:42:36,303 --> 00:42:39,890
Vince said, "Look, Bret's not gonna do it.
He refuses to do it."
801
00:42:39,890 --> 00:42:43,102
I don't remember all the specifics,
but I was the one that was like,
802
00:42:43,102 --> 00:42:45,145
"Fuck that.
If he won't do it, do it for him."
803
00:42:45,980 --> 00:42:48,190
I met Vince
when I was 23 years old.
804
00:42:48,190 --> 00:42:51,110
I've spent more time with him
than I have my own father.
805
00:42:51,110 --> 00:42:54,280
I get emotional about it, 'cause it's... uh...
806
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:56,991
You know, I put him through a lot.
807
00:42:57,658 --> 00:43:01,704
I was in a bad, bad place
for a lot of years, and he put up with it.
808
00:43:01,704 --> 00:43:05,416
To me, he deserves
something in return for that.
809
00:43:05,416 --> 00:43:07,710
And so, for that, I gave him my loyalty.
810
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:11,380
All he had to do was look at me
and say, "Shawn, this is what I want,"
811
00:43:11,380 --> 00:43:12,590
and I did it.
812
00:43:14,592 --> 00:43:16,844
On that night,
he did not want Bret Hart
813
00:43:16,844 --> 00:43:19,305
walking out of that building
with the championship,
814
00:43:19,305 --> 00:43:20,806
and I made sure that happened.
815
00:43:21,765 --> 00:43:25,477
Day of, I was told
that it was gonna be a schmoz finish.
816
00:43:25,477 --> 00:43:28,147
Everybody was gonna get involved.
We were gonna throw the match out,
817
00:43:28,147 --> 00:43:31,400
and we'd figure out what to do afterwards.
818
00:43:32,067 --> 00:43:35,195
A schmoz is a big brawl
with a bunch of different guys,
819
00:43:35,195 --> 00:43:37,156
and the referee just throws it out.
820
00:43:37,156 --> 00:43:40,743
No one really wins or loses,
and it was like, "That works for me."
821
00:43:41,827 --> 00:43:46,206
But WWE had been screwing wrestlers
in different ways for a long time.
822
00:43:46,832 --> 00:43:50,961
I knew about Wendi Richter,
so I didn't trust anything.
823
00:43:50,961 --> 00:43:53,297
Never took my eyes off Shawn.
824
00:43:53,297 --> 00:43:54,965
If he wants to make this a real fight,
825
00:43:54,965 --> 00:43:57,509
we can make it a real fight
anytime he wants to.
826
00:43:57,509 --> 00:43:59,178
I will fight him to the death.
827
00:43:59,178 --> 00:44:01,847
- Look out!
- Shawn Michaels is in.
828
00:44:01,847 --> 00:44:04,767
If you watch that match,
it's a great match.
829
00:44:04,767 --> 00:44:09,897
It's a down-and-dirty fight
between guys that hate each other's guts.
830
00:44:11,565 --> 00:44:13,984
Eventually,
Shawn puts me in the sharpshooter,
831
00:44:13,984 --> 00:44:16,111
which is my finishing move,
832
00:44:16,111 --> 00:44:17,946
and he, in fact, puts it on wrong.
833
00:44:17,946 --> 00:44:21,033
If you see it,
I correct Shawn while he's doing it,
834
00:44:21,033 --> 00:44:24,995
and he switches it and puts it on right,
and then turns me over,
835
00:44:24,995 --> 00:44:28,957
and I can see the timekeeper,
and I see Vince yell at him.
836
00:44:28,957 --> 00:44:32,544
I'm yelling at the timekeeper,
"Ring the bell, ring the bell."
837
00:44:32,544 --> 00:44:35,089
Even though Bret never tapped out.
838
00:44:35,798 --> 00:44:38,092
And he won't ring it.
He's, like, stunned. He's like...
839
00:44:38,092 --> 00:44:41,762
And then I see Vince snap at him,
"Ring the fucking bell!"
840
00:44:41,762 --> 00:44:44,056
Ring! Ring the bell, ring the bell!
841
00:44:48,852 --> 00:44:52,815
The bell rings, and I'm screaming
on the headset. "Why'd you ring the bell?"
842
00:44:52,815 --> 00:44:54,692
Oh shit!
843
00:44:55,609 --> 00:44:58,278
And I can feel it.
844
00:44:58,278 --> 00:45:02,157
Everything is coming to me now.
Like, "They did it. They did screw you."
845
00:45:02,783 --> 00:45:07,079
I wanted to be out at ringside
so that he would know what happened,
846
00:45:07,079 --> 00:45:09,873
and I took back what was mine.
847
00:45:09,873 --> 00:45:12,042
Bret obviously didn't like that.
848
00:45:12,042 --> 00:45:14,461
When you have a match
as hard as I was wrestling,
849
00:45:14,461 --> 00:45:16,880
you get a fair bit of froth in your mouth.
850
00:45:17,464 --> 00:45:19,967
I leaned over, and I spit on his face.
851
00:45:19,967 --> 00:45:21,885
I got him bullseye.
852
00:45:23,595 --> 00:45:25,139
Right into my eye.
853
00:45:25,139 --> 00:45:29,309
That was gross, but nonetheless,
I thought, "Damn, how did he do that?"
854
00:45:31,228 --> 00:45:33,313
Then I went out
and broke all the monitors
855
00:45:33,313 --> 00:45:36,191
and smashed all them to pieces
on the floor.
856
00:45:36,191 --> 00:45:37,401
It was just chaos.
857
00:45:38,235 --> 00:45:40,612
Bret writes "WCW" in the air.
858
00:45:41,363 --> 00:45:44,450
It's hard for people to imagine
how mad you can get
859
00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:47,119
when you get betrayed like that
on national television
860
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:49,163
and, in a lot of ways, made a fool of.
861
00:45:49,830 --> 00:45:52,374
My brother Owen was very calming.
862
00:45:53,041 --> 00:45:55,335
He goes, "It wasn't right, what they did.
That was wrong."
863
00:45:55,335 --> 00:45:58,005
"You have all the respect
of everybody in the dressing room."
864
00:45:58,005 --> 00:46:00,257
That kind of stuff. He was very...
865
00:46:00,257 --> 00:46:03,761
...consoling to me at that time. And...
866
00:46:09,141 --> 00:46:14,480
{\an8}Fourteen years,
I've given Vince McMahon 100% every night.
867
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,817
I've bled for him, took front turnbuckles
at 100 miles an hour.
868
00:46:18,817 --> 00:46:22,070
I've given him Christmas mornings
with my kids that never happened.
869
00:46:22,070 --> 00:46:25,282
I've never missed a show.
I've given this guy everything I got.
870
00:46:25,282 --> 00:46:28,911
I couldn't have given a man
more than what I gave Vince McMahon.
871
00:46:28,911 --> 00:46:32,331
None of that meant anything when
Vince screwed me that day in Montreal.
872
00:46:34,666 --> 00:46:38,921
When I walk back to that
dressing room, I'm ready to kill him.
873
00:46:38,921 --> 00:46:40,881
Like, kill him. Beat him to death.
874
00:46:40,881 --> 00:46:42,716
Shawn, you weren't in on that?
875
00:46:43,425 --> 00:46:47,471
No fucking idea.
I didn't know, God as my fucking witness.
876
00:46:47,471 --> 00:46:50,557
He came up immediately
and said, "Did you know?"
877
00:46:50,557 --> 00:46:52,726
I said, "Hand to God, I did not."
878
00:46:52,726 --> 00:46:54,728
Vince was so adamant.
879
00:46:54,728 --> 00:46:59,107
We had to absolutely swear
that we knew nothing about this.
880
00:46:59,107 --> 00:47:02,820
He was like, "I don't care who asks you,
you bold-face lie right to them
881
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:06,114
and say, 'I knew nothing about this.
This was a Vince McMahon call.'"
882
00:47:06,114 --> 00:47:07,699
{\an8}I swear to God, I knew nothing--
883
00:47:07,699 --> 00:47:12,079
{\an8}Yeah, swear to God all you want,
but someday, God is gonna strike you down.
884
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:16,124
It was chaos in the back,
and people everywhere were freaking out.
885
00:47:16,124 --> 00:47:19,878
Just remember, someday, Hunter,
what goes around comes around.
886
00:47:19,878 --> 00:47:25,467
I remember being just so pissed
that they did things this way.
887
00:47:26,134 --> 00:47:27,803
I think Vince was in a panic mode, like,
888
00:47:27,803 --> 00:47:32,558
"What can I do
to stop this rebellion right now?"
889
00:47:33,809 --> 00:47:39,022
I felt like, in a strange sort of way,
because Bret and I had this relationship,
890
00:47:39,022 --> 00:47:42,317
I felt like I sort of owed Bret something,
891
00:47:42,317 --> 00:47:46,196
uh, because from his standpoint,
I'd double-crossed him.
892
00:47:47,656 --> 00:47:50,617
Vince said, "He's gonna want to hit me,
and I owe him that."
893
00:47:51,285 --> 00:47:54,746
I can picture him
walking in that locker room in Montreal.
894
00:47:54,746 --> 00:47:57,583
Everybody else fired up,
everybody else emotional.
895
00:47:58,417 --> 00:48:01,003
I leave the room, 'cause I don't
wanna watch Vince get punched.
896
00:48:01,837 --> 00:48:04,131
Finally, Bret gets up,
walks across the room.
897
00:48:04,131 --> 00:48:05,841
They all kind of meet.
898
00:48:05,841 --> 00:48:09,720
I walk over to his locker room,
hands down,
899
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:13,265
and Bret hauls off and,
man, he hit me so hard.
900
00:48:13,265 --> 00:48:14,474
Right in the temple.
901
00:48:14,474 --> 00:48:17,603
There was no, like,
"Vince is gonna give me a shot."
902
00:48:17,603 --> 00:48:21,273
I don't know where they get that story,
because that is such a bunch of bullshit.
903
00:48:21,982 --> 00:48:24,443
It was Vince and me came at each other,
904
00:48:24,443 --> 00:48:27,070
and we actually
tied up like a wrestling match.
905
00:48:27,070 --> 00:48:30,616
Everybody's ready to pounce on me
as soon as we grab each other,
906
00:48:30,616 --> 00:48:33,452
and I remember going,
"The only way I can get a shot in,
907
00:48:33,452 --> 00:48:36,914
one shot, maybe, is an uppercut."
908
00:48:36,914 --> 00:48:40,083
And I came right up between Vince's arms,
909
00:48:40,083 --> 00:48:45,172
and it was like, um... You know when
you hit the bell and the thing goes up?
910
00:48:45,172 --> 00:48:49,384
To this day,
I have no idea how the punch got through.
911
00:48:49,384 --> 00:48:51,303
He was out cold like a starfish.
912
00:48:51,887 --> 00:48:53,597
- Drilled him.
- I'm proud of you.
913
00:48:53,597 --> 00:48:54,598
They're over there.
914
00:48:55,223 --> 00:48:58,518
- As hard as I could. Knocked him out.
- I'm scared.
915
00:48:58,518 --> 00:49:01,438
Probably the best thing I ever did,
and he deserved every bit.
916
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:05,108
Vince did get seriously hurt,
I mean...
917
00:49:05,108 --> 00:49:07,653
Vince had, you know, a big, nice shiner.
918
00:49:08,779 --> 00:49:10,906
That night, I'm limping around,
919
00:49:10,906 --> 00:49:15,160
and, like, "Oh my God, stars are
all over the place in terms of my head."
920
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:16,453
Pretty good concussion.
921
00:49:17,245 --> 00:49:20,874
I felt bad.
I felt bad for Bret. I felt bad for Vince.
922
00:49:20,874 --> 00:49:24,586
Vince didn't wanna do that,
but he had to do what's best for business,
923
00:49:24,586 --> 00:49:27,339
and that's what he's always gonna do.
924
00:49:28,632 --> 00:49:31,843
That was the Montreal Screwjob,
as it was called,
925
00:49:31,843 --> 00:49:35,263
and, to this day,
I don't regret any of it.
926
00:49:36,139 --> 00:49:40,435
Things just got real, and it gave me
a whole different perspective
927
00:49:41,603 --> 00:49:42,771
for the business.
928
00:49:43,897 --> 00:49:46,525
The Montreal Screwjob
was like a moment in time
929
00:49:46,525 --> 00:49:48,902
where you can see the shift.
930
00:49:48,902 --> 00:49:51,697
You know, it's like a land mass moving.
931
00:49:51,697 --> 00:49:53,740
You don't see it,
but then there's a big earthquake
932
00:49:53,740 --> 00:49:55,492
and it moves, and you go, "Ooh, I saw it."
933
00:49:57,035 --> 00:50:00,288
It, like, shifted,
and there was a... a seismic change.
934
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,042
The real-life event that happened,
935
00:50:04,042 --> 00:50:07,421
the dispute with Bret
and the controversy afterwards,
936
00:50:07,421 --> 00:50:12,676
led to the birth
of a Mr. McMahon character
937
00:50:12,676 --> 00:50:15,804
that became
one of the most hated characters
938
00:50:15,804 --> 00:50:19,182
and most beloved characters of all time.
939
00:50:20,851 --> 00:50:24,688
In the midst of chaos,
a lot of times, genius comes out of it.
940
00:50:24,688 --> 00:50:29,651
Is this the final nail, so to speak,
in World Wrestling Entertainment?
941
00:50:29,651 --> 00:50:32,446
Au contraire. We're just getting started.