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00:00:12,742 --> 00:00:15,786
(mysterious music playing)

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00:00:16,954 --> 00:00:19,749
Jamie Dimon:
Every day, you know,
you have nonstop Bitcoin.

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00:00:19,832 --> 00:00:21,751
Who cares about Bitcoin?

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00:00:21,834 --> 00:00:22,918
(click)

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00:00:23,002 --> 00:00:24,253
(cash register dings)

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00:00:25,046 --> 00:00:26,964
I could care less
what Bitcoin trades for,

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00:00:27,006 --> 00:00:29,341
how it trades, why it trades,
who trades it.

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00:00:29,425 --> 00:00:30,468
If you're stupid enough to buy,

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00:00:30,551 --> 00:00:32,344
you'll pay the price
for it one day.

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00:00:32,762 --> 00:00:34,847
(clicking)

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00:00:34,930 --> 00:00:37,058
YouTuber:
Bitcoin is a fucking scam.

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00:00:37,141 --> 00:00:38,809
Donald Trump (on phone):
Bitcoin seems like a scam.

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-Magical internet money.
-It has no intrinsic value.

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00:00:41,854 --> 00:00:43,481
(clicking)

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Dimon:
Bitcoin is worthless.

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00:00:46,108 --> 00:00:48,778
-What makes it valuable?
-Totally BS.

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00:00:48,861 --> 00:00:50,071
Bitcoin is a dead end.

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00:00:52,239 --> 00:00:54,367
Brian Kelly:
Bitcoin's dead again!

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00:00:54,450 --> 00:00:56,035
It's a combination of a bubble,
a Ponzi scheme,

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00:00:56,118 --> 00:00:57,119
and an economic disaster.

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Whatever it's doing,
it's not money.

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00:00:58,954 --> 00:01:01,665
Whatever Bitcoin is,
it is not money.

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00:01:01,916 --> 00:01:04,335
-(clicking)
-(cash register dings)

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00:01:04,377 --> 00:01:07,505
Bitcoin is simply gonna implode
before you know it.

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Today, we're having
a funeral for Bitcoin.

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Cullen Hoback: Despite all
the doomsday prophecies,

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just 15 years after launch,
Bitcoin had become

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the 10th most valuable asset
in the world,

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outperforming Wall Street
by a massive margin.

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One of the biggest
unanswered questions

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00:01:23,354 --> 00:01:26,232
surrounding Bitcoin
is who invented it.

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Andy Court:
When you ask about the creator,

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who created this,
we have no idea.

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-There's these things
called nerds.
-(studio laughter)

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And in 2008,

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one of them made up Bitcoin
out of thin air,

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using the fake name
Satoshi Nakamoto.

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Satoshi Nakamoto.

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-Satoshi--
-Nakamoto.

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Which, I think,
are the Japanese words

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-for Monopoly money.
-(studio laughter)

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Hoback:
Satoshi Nakamoto,

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the inventor of said
Monopoly money,

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was now presumably one of
the richest people on Earth.

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speaker:
We are all Satoshi!

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(applause, cheering)

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Hoback:
This anonymous character had
developed quite a following.

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00:02:01,726 --> 00:02:04,186
And if all these pundits
kept being wrong,

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00:02:04,228 --> 00:02:06,272
and Bitcoin kept going up,

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00:02:06,355 --> 00:02:08,065
then Satoshi could be worth

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00:02:08,149 --> 00:02:10,109
more than
a trillion dollars.

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-With a "T."
-(cash register dings)

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And that's because
Satoshi controlled

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a shit-ton of Bitcoin.

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Enough to break the system.

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But, many years ago,
Satoshi had disappeared

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without spending any of it.

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What would happen

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00:02:24,498 --> 00:02:26,917
if Satoshi just
reemerged one day

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to cash in?

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They'd be like
king of the world.

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Who is Satoshi Nakamoto?

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Who do you think
he really is?

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Hoback:
Simply put, Satoshi's identity

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has remained
the greatest mystery

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of the Internet Age.

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No one knows who they are,
even though a lot of people

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have tried to figure this out.

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YouTuber:
Tonight's plan?
To reveal the identity

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of Satoshi Nakamoto,

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creator of Bitcoin.

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Is he no longer here?
Is he amongst us?

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♪♪

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Hoback:
Well, someone probably knew.

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Like maybe this guy...

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It's too high risk
for Satoshi to come back.

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-(ding)
-Hoback: ...who you'll
get to know soon enough.

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It's way too high risk.

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What's risky about it?

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Well, you get
implicated as Satoshi.

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And then, every country
in the world

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is gonna wanna go after you.

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Or people are gonna go
after you to steal it.

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But, why does,
like, a murderer

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00:03:18,302 --> 00:03:19,637
go back to
the scene of the crime?

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Satoshi's doing nothing
to pick up his stash.

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Hoback:
Yeah, just a million Bitcoin.

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And that's why he went
to such great lengths

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to conceal his identity.

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He thought of everything.

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Hoback:
Well, not everything.

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(dramatic music playing)

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-Cash.
-customer: That should be 1,000.

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Hoback:
How often do you pay with it?

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customer:
Such nice guns!

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Hoback:
You probably use your card
for just about everything.

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-Denied, denied... approved.
-(studio laughter)

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Hoback:
But the cool thing about cash,

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you hand over your money,

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you get a thing,

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and no bank, credit card
company, government agency,

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data broker,
social media advertiser

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gets to know
about your hobbies.

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But, it seemed like
we were maybe on our way

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to getting rid
of cash entirely.

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As the world transitions
into a cashless society...

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speaker:
"We've gone cashless."

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No one wants to
carry around cash anymore.
That's already-- Cash is gone.

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Hoback:
In fact, there are quite
a few things about the dollar

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that were just outdated
because these dudes

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-didn't have iPhones.
-(notification chimes)

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But, if you were
to start from scratch,

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how would you make cash
for the digital age?

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It was 2017

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when I really started
paying attention to Bitcoin.

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And as a filmmaker

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who was concerned
with online surveillance...

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Everything moved
into ones and zeros,

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00:05:08,954 --> 00:05:10,790
and ones and zeros can be
tracked and traced.

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...the idea that Bitcoin

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was supposed to protect your
privacy was pretty appealing.

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It was trying to be money
for the internet.

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♪♪

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And it had a few features

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that the current
financial system just didn't.

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-(bell clanging)
-announcer: Fight!

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Hoback:
No single person or group
controlled it,

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it was basically impossible
to shut down,

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-it was scarce.
-(Pikachu panting)

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Anyone with an internet
connection could access it.

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-You are personally
responsible for it.
-(roars)

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And it was super secure

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unless you made a mistake.

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And it was distributed
through something called

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"Bitcoin mining,"

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which I tried.

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-Even if you don't usually
pay attention to Bitcoin...
-(rummaging)

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00:05:49,453 --> 00:05:51,122
...you might have
still heard about it.

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Miners using powerful computers

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00:05:54,250 --> 00:05:56,460
to guess a random
string of numbers

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00:05:56,502 --> 00:05:58,921
and win a Bitcoin reward.

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Hoback:
It's how new Bitcoins
enter the system.

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This fancy computing rig,

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00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,885
it's like a ticket
to the Bitcoin lottery.

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00:06:04,969 --> 00:06:06,595
You said 1,600 Watts?

146
00:06:06,679 --> 00:06:09,056
It takes a lot of electricity.

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00:06:09,140 --> 00:06:11,726
-(rustling)
-And if your mining rig is
the first in the entire world

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to find
the computational equivalent

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00:06:13,936 --> 00:06:14,979
of a golden ticket...

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-I got it, Mr. Salt!
Here it is!
-(cheering)

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00:06:17,481 --> 00:06:19,692
Hoback: ...you win some
freshly minted Bitcoin.

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That means that some people
are gonna lose a lot of money.

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-Probably.
-Oh yeah.

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Hoback:
And every 10 minutes,
you get another shot.

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It was the modern gold rush

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00:06:27,283 --> 00:06:29,535
from the comfort
of your living room.

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-But, my miner wasn't so lucky.
-(fan whirring)

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So, instead of winning
a down payment for a house,

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I just ended up with
a large electricity bill.

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-(whirring stops)
-Eh, fuck.

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And the occasional
power outage.

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I don't think
this is gonna work. (laughs)

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Meaning I'd have to go
get my Bitcoin on an exchange,

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kinda like
how you buy stocks.

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And like stocks,

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people kinda hope
that this digital asset

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-is gonna make them rich.
-(cheering)

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Which, let's be honest,
was the real draw.

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(blasting music)

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It was fueled
by an online culture

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that was invested
in seeing Bitcoin win.

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You're supposed to buy the dip.
Buy Bitcoin.

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Hoback:
Designed to pull people away
from a financial system

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that seemed like it was stacked
against the average person.

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If you win all three rats,

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-and they come in one-two-three,
you win everything.
-Oh, my God.

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Drew Carey:
But, you have to win some rats.

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Hoback:
And Bitcoin provided
this glimmer of hope

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that you might get
out of the rat race.

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-Look at them go! Oh, man,
you're gonna have a car.
-(crowd cheering)

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(rats squeaking)

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Hoback:
Asking you to put
your faith in math

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00:07:28,761 --> 00:07:30,054
instead of the government.

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-I don't know what I said, ah!
-We finally beat Medicare.

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Hoback:
So, maybe that's why in 2021,

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00:07:34,767 --> 00:07:37,353
an entire country
adopted Bitcoin.

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Because the current
financial system

188
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was also stacked
against them.

189
00:07:42,066 --> 00:07:45,986
-(street chatter)
-(curious music playing)

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00:07:46,612 --> 00:07:48,739
This is El Salvador,
a Latin American nation

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plagued with a history
of gang violence,

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corruption, and civil war.

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00:07:53,828 --> 00:07:55,663
For more than 20 years,
they had resorted

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00:07:55,746 --> 00:07:58,916
to using the US dollar
as their official currency,

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00:07:58,958 --> 00:08:00,918
adding to why
the president's announcement

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00:08:01,001 --> 00:08:02,503
sent shock waves
around the world.

197
00:08:02,586 --> 00:08:04,547
(crowd cheering)

198
00:08:04,588 --> 00:08:05,923
Nayib Bukele:
Where are the Bitcoiners?

199
00:08:06,340 --> 00:08:09,093
Hoback:
He planned to tie the
country's future to Bitcoin.

200
00:08:09,176 --> 00:08:11,595
For starters, they bought
a bunch of it using...

201
00:08:11,679 --> 00:08:14,265
reporter:
105 million taxpayer dollars.

202
00:08:14,348 --> 00:08:16,517
Hoback:
Then, the country began
accepting Bitcoin

203
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,561
as legal tender.

204
00:08:18,644 --> 00:08:21,564
Suddenly, Bitcoin could be
used alongside the dollar

205
00:08:21,605 --> 00:08:24,108
to pay for things
like breakfast, real estate,

206
00:08:24,191 --> 00:08:26,027
or even taxes.

207
00:08:26,569 --> 00:08:28,362
At least, that was the idea.

208
00:08:28,446 --> 00:08:31,991
We announced that El Salvador
was making Bitcoin legal tender.

209
00:08:32,074 --> 00:08:34,702
(crowd cheering)

210
00:08:34,785 --> 00:08:36,912
We had some protests,
did you see those?

211
00:08:36,954 --> 00:08:39,331
They started with misinformation
to the people,

212
00:08:39,415 --> 00:08:40,583
telling them Bitcoin was bad,

213
00:08:40,666 --> 00:08:42,501
and, you know, you shouldn't
use that currency

214
00:08:42,585 --> 00:08:44,378
because it's invisible.
You cannot see it!

215
00:08:44,462 --> 00:08:46,797
-(laughter)
-Yeah, exactly.

216
00:08:46,881 --> 00:08:48,632
They are all full of bullshit.

217
00:08:48,674 --> 00:08:50,259
Hoback:
The president was betting

218
00:08:50,301 --> 00:08:52,970
that other countries
would want in on the game,

219
00:08:53,054 --> 00:08:56,265
would reject the hegemony
of the US dollar.

220
00:08:56,307 --> 00:08:57,516
Who was behind this effort?

221
00:08:58,017 --> 00:09:01,729
So, we talked with
my friend Samson. Where is he?

222
00:09:01,812 --> 00:09:03,606
-(cheering)
-Samson?

223
00:09:03,647 --> 00:09:05,983
So, this is going
to make El Salvador

224
00:09:06,067 --> 00:09:08,027
the financial center
of the world.

225
00:09:08,110 --> 00:09:12,239
This is the beginning of, uh,
nation-state Bitcoin FOMO.

226
00:09:12,323 --> 00:09:14,158
Do you guys like that?

227
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:15,826
(crowd cheering)

228
00:09:15,868 --> 00:09:17,578
Hoback:
The guy on stage
with the president

229
00:09:17,661 --> 00:09:19,372
clearly had something
to do with it.

230
00:09:19,622 --> 00:09:21,165
So, I reached out.

231
00:09:21,207 --> 00:09:24,168
-Hello, we're going
on a helicopter.
-speaker: That's right. Hello.

232
00:09:24,210 --> 00:09:27,046
Hoback:
Samson worked for a company
that was trying to expand

233
00:09:27,129 --> 00:09:28,881
Bitcoin's reach
around the globe.

234
00:09:28,964 --> 00:09:30,716
He considered himself a kind of

235
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,219
diplomatic ambassador
for Bitcoin.

236
00:09:33,677 --> 00:09:35,805
And the president
was treating him like one.

237
00:09:35,888 --> 00:09:38,808
-(helicopter whirring)
-Samson was busy

238
00:09:38,849 --> 00:09:40,601
trying to convince
Mexico's third richest man,

239
00:09:40,684 --> 00:09:43,145
known as Uncle Richi,

240
00:09:43,229 --> 00:09:44,647
to use his power plant
to mine Bitcoin.

241
00:09:44,730 --> 00:09:47,024
Because, you know,

242
00:09:47,108 --> 00:09:49,777
who wants to just
be third richest?

243
00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:52,279
(Ricardo Salinas
speaking English)

244
00:09:55,366 --> 00:09:56,909
(Samson Mow
speaking English)

245
00:09:58,327 --> 00:10:00,079
(Salinas speaking)

246
00:10:06,043 --> 00:10:08,921
Hoback: Like myself,
investors also had questions

247
00:10:09,004 --> 00:10:12,425
when it came to Satoshi,
Bitcoin's anonymous creator.

248
00:10:13,050 --> 00:10:17,054
It was the elephant in
the helicopter, so to speak.

249
00:10:27,314 --> 00:10:28,357
-They're gone.
-They're gone.

250
00:10:52,214 --> 00:10:53,257
Yep.

251
00:10:55,134 --> 00:10:56,969
Hoback:
Just before
the launch of Bitcoin,

252
00:10:57,053 --> 00:11:00,598
there was a digital currency
backed by actual gold,

253
00:11:00,681 --> 00:11:03,267
which was reportedly
processing $2 billion

254
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:05,186
in transactions every year.

255
00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:07,104
E-gold is a currency

256
00:11:07,146 --> 00:11:09,273
that's currently
pretty popularized

257
00:11:09,357 --> 00:11:10,858
with a lot of online users.

258
00:11:11,108 --> 00:11:14,028
Hoback:
They promised that e-gold
would be here this year,

259
00:11:14,111 --> 00:11:16,697
next year,
1,000 years from now.

260
00:11:16,781 --> 00:11:18,199
But, it seems the US government

261
00:11:18,282 --> 00:11:20,659
didn't give a shit
what their website said.

262
00:11:20,743 --> 00:11:23,704
They arrested its creator
and shut it down.

263
00:11:23,788 --> 00:11:24,830
The takeaway?

264
00:11:25,039 --> 00:11:27,083
If you're going to create
a digital currency

265
00:11:27,166 --> 00:11:29,126
that will compete
with the US dollar,

266
00:11:29,168 --> 00:11:30,836
you might wanna be
really careful

267
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,839
about letting people
know who you are.

268
00:11:33,923 --> 00:11:36,550
And because Satoshi disappeared
and never cashed out,

269
00:11:36,634 --> 00:11:39,637
I figured maybe their identity
should stay a secret.

270
00:11:39,678 --> 00:11:41,889
-(propeller plane whirring)
-After all,

271
00:11:41,972 --> 00:11:43,724
it's not like they had
some master plan for Bitcoin

272
00:11:43,808 --> 00:11:46,477
to replace the US dollar
and render them

273
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,938
the richest person on Earth.
Right?

274
00:11:49,021 --> 00:11:50,314
(quirky music playing)

275
00:11:50,398 --> 00:11:52,608
Satoshi understood
the game theory of it all.

276
00:11:52,692 --> 00:11:55,486
If Bitcoin was successful,

277
00:11:56,529 --> 00:11:57,863
they'd go after him.

278
00:11:58,531 --> 00:12:00,741
(Hoback speaking)

279
00:12:05,121 --> 00:12:08,124
I don't think he would've
created this gift for the world

280
00:12:08,165 --> 00:12:11,127
just to keep it as
a threat over the future.

281
00:12:11,168 --> 00:12:14,755
He was more thinking
for the good of humanity.

282
00:12:14,839 --> 00:12:17,425
Money is very broken.

283
00:12:17,508 --> 00:12:21,178
It's just a house of cards built
on top of more houses of cards

284
00:12:21,262 --> 00:12:22,805
on more houses of cards.

285
00:12:22,888 --> 00:12:24,515
It's all gonna
come crashing down.

286
00:12:24,557 --> 00:12:28,728
And when it does, that's when
hyperbitcoinization kicks in.

287
00:12:28,811 --> 00:12:30,604
(Hoback speaking)

288
00:12:30,688 --> 00:12:32,523
Samson Mow:
Hyperbitcoinization is just,

289
00:12:32,565 --> 00:12:35,192
you can earn Bitcoin,
spend Bitcoin,

290
00:12:35,276 --> 00:12:39,405
save in Bitcoin,
and the dollar is irrelevant.

291
00:12:40,489 --> 00:12:41,991
Hoback:
There are a handful
of countries

292
00:12:42,074 --> 00:12:44,410
that had printed their way
into hyperinflation,

293
00:12:44,618 --> 00:12:48,205
where money becomes worth less
than the paper it's printed on.

294
00:12:48,289 --> 00:12:51,250
But, that could never happen
to the US dollar.

295
00:12:52,209 --> 00:12:53,627
Could it?

296
00:12:54,128 --> 00:12:55,921
-(tense music playing)
-(crowd chatter)

297
00:12:56,005 --> 00:12:57,798
reporter 1:
Lehman Brothers
is going bankrupt.

298
00:12:57,882 --> 00:12:59,717
reporter 2:
Customers are freaked out,

299
00:12:59,759 --> 00:13:01,385
waiting to see
how low the Dow will go.

300
00:13:01,469 --> 00:13:04,055
Hoback:
Back in 2008,
the world came really close

301
00:13:04,138 --> 00:13:06,557
to figuring out that
our entire economic system

302
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,268
was held together with
chewing gum and duct tape.

303
00:13:09,351 --> 00:13:11,228
reporter:
The President's plan
would allow the Treasury

304
00:13:11,312 --> 00:13:15,149
to buy up to $700 billion
worth of bad loans.

305
00:13:15,232 --> 00:13:18,152
Hoback:
Trust in financial institutions
was hard to find.

306
00:13:18,235 --> 00:13:21,489
I know Americans are concerned
about the adjustments.

307
00:13:21,572 --> 00:13:24,033
-(shutter snapping)
-Hoback: The only business
that seemed to be booming

308
00:13:24,116 --> 00:13:27,578
involved taking pictures
of depressed stockbrokers.

309
00:13:27,661 --> 00:13:30,873
It was during this fiasco
that a mysterious programmer,

310
00:13:30,956 --> 00:13:33,626
calling themselves
Satoshi Nakamoto,

311
00:13:33,709 --> 00:13:35,127
conceived of Bitcoin,

312
00:13:35,211 --> 00:13:37,922
an electronic cash system.

313
00:13:37,963 --> 00:13:41,467
And it was all set in motion
on January 3, 2009...

314
00:13:43,010 --> 00:13:45,554
when the first
Bitcoin block was born.

315
00:13:45,638 --> 00:13:47,890
It's called the Genesis Block.

316
00:13:47,932 --> 00:13:51,435
And a new block is formed
about every 10 minutes,

317
00:13:51,519 --> 00:13:54,897
adding to the record of
all the Bitcoin transactions.

318
00:13:54,939 --> 00:13:56,857
It's called a blockchain.

319
00:13:56,941 --> 00:13:59,944
It's like an indestructible
mathematical safe,

320
00:14:00,027 --> 00:14:02,488
one that keeps track
of who owns what.

321
00:14:03,155 --> 00:14:05,616
And if you want to
unlock your Bitcoin,

322
00:14:05,658 --> 00:14:07,910
it'll require
your secret key,

323
00:14:07,952 --> 00:14:10,579
which is basically
just a fancy password.

324
00:14:10,621 --> 00:14:14,250
Bitcoin now has hundreds
of thousands of blocks.

325
00:14:14,333 --> 00:14:18,045
But, in the Genesis Block,
Satoshi hid a message.

326
00:14:18,129 --> 00:14:21,173
"Chancellor on brink
of second bailout for banks."

327
00:14:21,716 --> 00:14:24,468
Referencing a headline that had
appeared in the London "Times"

328
00:14:24,552 --> 00:14:26,178
that same morning.

329
00:14:26,846 --> 00:14:28,347
It was a subtle
declaration of war

330
00:14:28,431 --> 00:14:30,307
against the world's
financial powers,

331
00:14:30,391 --> 00:14:32,977
which had just printed
more than a trillion dollars

332
00:14:33,060 --> 00:14:35,980
to satisfy the recklessness
of the big banks.

333
00:14:36,022 --> 00:14:37,690
In apparent opposition,

334
00:14:38,107 --> 00:14:40,735
Satoshi designed Bitcoin
with a limited supply.

335
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,320
No one could just
print more of it.

336
00:14:43,404 --> 00:14:46,532
Only 21 million total
could ever be mined.

337
00:14:46,615 --> 00:14:49,869
It was programmed so that
the miners would receive

338
00:14:49,952 --> 00:14:51,829
less and less over time.

339
00:14:51,912 --> 00:14:53,330
Until 2140,

340
00:14:53,414 --> 00:14:56,625
when the digital mine
basically runs out,

341
00:14:56,709 --> 00:14:58,002
with Satoshi writing,

342
00:14:58,085 --> 00:15:00,880
"It's very attractive
to the libertarian viewpoint,

343
00:15:00,963 --> 00:15:02,506
"if we can explain it properly.

344
00:15:02,548 --> 00:15:05,551
I'm better with code
than with words though."

345
00:15:05,634 --> 00:15:07,803
You know, for Bitcoiners
who actually might know

346
00:15:07,887 --> 00:15:09,096
who Satoshi is, if they do,

347
00:15:09,180 --> 00:15:11,724
do you think that
they would keep that secret?

348
00:15:11,807 --> 00:15:13,726
(plane whirring)

349
00:15:13,809 --> 00:15:16,020
Well, I would keep the secret.

350
00:15:16,062 --> 00:15:18,189
Adam Back
would keep the secret.

351
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:21,192
Hoback: Samson's boss
is a cryptographer

352
00:15:21,275 --> 00:15:24,820
named Adam Back
which jumped out at me

353
00:15:24,904 --> 00:15:26,113
because Adam Back

354
00:15:26,197 --> 00:15:28,824
has a pretty important
connection to Satoshi.

355
00:15:28,908 --> 00:15:31,243
He was believed to be
the first person

356
00:15:31,327 --> 00:15:33,662
Satoshi ever reached out to.

357
00:15:33,704 --> 00:15:36,832
People have pushed Adam
to release the Satoshi emails

358
00:15:36,916 --> 00:15:38,709
that Satoshi sent to him.

359
00:15:38,793 --> 00:15:41,253
But, Adam is
a very upstanding guy.

360
00:15:41,337 --> 00:15:44,382
His line of thinking is that
is a private conversation.

361
00:15:44,465 --> 00:15:46,133
So, he's never released
those emails.

362
00:15:46,217 --> 00:15:48,427
I've seen them, and, you know,

363
00:15:49,345 --> 00:15:50,429
they're real.

364
00:15:51,097 --> 00:15:53,724
Hoback:
Adam's company is
called Blockstream.

365
00:15:53,766 --> 00:15:56,435
They were largely behind
this effort in El Salvador.

366
00:15:56,519 --> 00:15:58,145
And now, they were looking
to help

367
00:15:58,229 --> 00:16:00,064
more countries adopt Bitcoin.

368
00:16:00,106 --> 00:16:01,941
Which brings Bitcoin closer

369
00:16:02,024 --> 00:16:04,193
to becoming
the new global standard.

370
00:16:04,235 --> 00:16:06,779
Which, in turn,
could make Satoshi

371
00:16:06,862 --> 00:16:09,156
the richest person on Earth.

372
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:10,658
It might make you wonder

373
00:16:10,741 --> 00:16:12,618
if Satoshi had any
relationship to Blockstream,

374
00:16:13,411 --> 00:16:16,205
assuming Satoshi
was still alive.

375
00:16:16,580 --> 00:16:20,209
So, I asked Samson if he could
connect me with Adam Back.

376
00:16:20,251 --> 00:16:23,170
-Adam, is your mic on?
Can you hear me?
-Just wait a minute...

377
00:16:23,254 --> 00:16:24,797
Okay, should be good.

378
00:16:25,798 --> 00:16:28,008
(over video call)
I had, you know,
a brief interaction,

379
00:16:28,092 --> 00:16:31,262
email interaction,
with Satoshi in 2008.

380
00:16:31,345 --> 00:16:33,431
And-And, like, what happened?
We don't know.

381
00:16:33,472 --> 00:16:35,933
I mean, is he alive or not?
I don't know. Um...

382
00:16:36,392 --> 00:16:37,935
Did he just choose
a different pseudonym?

383
00:16:37,977 --> 00:16:39,270
Is he-- he still active?

384
00:16:39,353 --> 00:16:40,688
We don't know that either,
I'd say.

385
00:16:40,771 --> 00:16:44,442
Satoshi's wallet,
there's this huge sort of chest

386
00:16:44,525 --> 00:16:45,484
that hasn't been tapped.

387
00:16:45,568 --> 00:16:47,695
It seems almost like a,
you know, a Bible story,

388
00:16:47,778 --> 00:16:49,321
where nobody really knows
quite what happened

389
00:16:49,405 --> 00:16:50,823
because it was
so many years ago.

390
00:16:51,365 --> 00:16:54,326
It's hard to be definitive,
I guess is my point. (laughs)

391
00:16:55,119 --> 00:16:57,204
Hoback (over video call):
So, Adam, are you
planning any trips

392
00:16:57,288 --> 00:16:58,789
to El Salvador anytime soon?

393
00:16:58,873 --> 00:17:01,208
Adam Back:
I haven't really been
traveling that much lately.

394
00:17:01,292 --> 00:17:03,127
Usually in Malta, actually.

395
00:17:03,210 --> 00:17:06,839
We should start with just
an interview with you in Malta.

396
00:17:06,922 --> 00:17:08,174
Um...

397
00:17:09,467 --> 00:17:12,303
If that sounds...
if that sounds good to you.

398
00:17:13,345 --> 00:17:14,680
Okay.

399
00:17:15,431 --> 00:17:17,475
♪♪

400
00:17:17,558 --> 00:17:19,185
Hoback:
When Adam moved to Malta,

401
00:17:19,268 --> 00:17:21,270
Bitcoin was just
getting started.

402
00:17:21,312 --> 00:17:22,605
It had no value yet.

403
00:17:22,688 --> 00:17:24,982
So, perhaps it's just
a coincidence

404
00:17:25,024 --> 00:17:27,818
that Malta is considered
a tax haven.

405
00:17:28,819 --> 00:17:30,529
So, how'd you end up in Malta?

406
00:17:30,821 --> 00:17:33,282
Adam Back:
Um, so, in 2009,

407
00:17:33,324 --> 00:17:35,201
I was working for a startup.

408
00:17:35,284 --> 00:17:37,119
I was thinking
as a remote worker,

409
00:17:37,161 --> 00:17:38,329
I would try
something adventurous,

410
00:17:38,412 --> 00:17:40,456
find somewhere
interesting to live.

411
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,667
Hoback:
The cryptography behind Bitcoin

412
00:17:43,709 --> 00:17:45,503
is what makes it secure.

413
00:17:45,586 --> 00:17:47,797
It's the "crypto"
in cryptocurrency.

414
00:17:47,838 --> 00:17:51,175
And cryptographers,
they're like the math wizards

415
00:17:51,258 --> 00:17:54,178
who are skilled
at making digital locks.

416
00:17:54,261 --> 00:17:55,679
And to create Bitcoin,

417
00:17:55,721 --> 00:17:57,848
Satoshi referenced ideas
from a few of them.

418
00:17:57,932 --> 00:18:00,935
In particular, something
that Adam Back had invented,

419
00:18:01,018 --> 00:18:02,311
called Hashcash.

420
00:18:02,603 --> 00:18:06,357
And he dreamed this up 12 years
before the creation of Bitcoin.

421
00:18:06,982 --> 00:18:10,611
Were you the first person
that Satoshi reached out to?

422
00:18:10,695 --> 00:18:11,779
I believe so, yeah.

423
00:18:11,862 --> 00:18:13,531
He just sent an email, um,

424
00:18:13,572 --> 00:18:16,075
saying that he's about
to publish, um, a paper...

425
00:18:16,534 --> 00:18:19,870
Hoback:
What would become Satoshi's
famous white paper.

426
00:18:20,413 --> 00:18:24,250
...and wants to know the
correct way to cite Hashcash.

427
00:18:26,877 --> 00:18:30,589
Did you ever release the emails
that you had with Satoshi?

428
00:18:31,632 --> 00:18:34,176
-No.
-Was that to protect privacy

429
00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:36,095
'cause they were private emails
or what was the reason?

430
00:18:36,178 --> 00:18:37,513
Yeah, kind of convention--

431
00:18:37,555 --> 00:18:40,558
I mean, convention,
so-called "netiquette,"

432
00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:42,935
which was a popular term
back then, was that

433
00:18:43,018 --> 00:18:45,479
you would not post somebody's
emails without permission.

434
00:18:45,563 --> 00:18:47,398
Like, nobody knows how to
reach this guy at this point,

435
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,858
so I can't ask, you know?

436
00:18:48,983 --> 00:18:51,235
Hoback:
But, we can look into
the group of people

437
00:18:51,318 --> 00:18:54,739
Satoshi relied on
for inspiration and support.

438
00:18:54,822 --> 00:18:56,574
Namely, the cypherpunks.

439
00:18:56,657 --> 00:18:59,118
-(modem dialing up)
-(dramatic music playing)

440
00:18:59,535 --> 00:19:01,537
Back in the day,
there was a lot of hope

441
00:19:01,579 --> 00:19:03,289
that this thing called
the internet

442
00:19:03,372 --> 00:19:05,958
was going to usher
in an era of newfound freedom.

443
00:19:06,042 --> 00:19:08,919
BBC speaker:
Imagine a world
where every word ever written

444
00:19:08,961 --> 00:19:10,963
could be viewed
instantly in your home

445
00:19:11,047 --> 00:19:13,174
via an information superhighway.

446
00:19:13,257 --> 00:19:15,426
Hoback:
But, only a few predicted

447
00:19:15,509 --> 00:19:18,054
the surveillance hellscape
that lay ahead.

448
00:19:18,137 --> 00:19:21,265
And they could be found on
the Cypherpunk Mailing List.

449
00:19:21,307 --> 00:19:24,560
Every cryptographer
worth their salt was on it.

450
00:19:24,602 --> 00:19:26,479
Cypherpunks are
cryptography activists

451
00:19:26,562 --> 00:19:29,231
who believe in personal
privacy for everybody.

452
00:19:29,273 --> 00:19:31,525
Hoback:
Which meant in a digital world,

453
00:19:31,609 --> 00:19:34,403
you would need some way
to secure your communications.

454
00:19:34,445 --> 00:19:36,572
In the physical world, you had
a good degree of privacy.

455
00:19:36,614 --> 00:19:38,282
In the online realm,
in principle,

456
00:19:38,366 --> 00:19:39,617
you should enjoy
the same rights.

457
00:19:39,658 --> 00:19:41,369
I mean, why should you lose
your rights just because

458
00:19:41,452 --> 00:19:43,287
you're using a different
communication mechanism?

459
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,416
Hoback:
But, the military,
and three-letter agencies,

460
00:19:47,458 --> 00:19:50,211
viewed cryptography
as a tool of war.

461
00:19:50,294 --> 00:19:52,046
And they didn't want
unbreakable security

462
00:19:52,129 --> 00:19:53,089
in the hands of the masses.

463
00:19:53,130 --> 00:19:55,007
The unrestrained
public discussion

464
00:19:55,091 --> 00:19:56,509
of cryptographic research

465
00:19:56,592 --> 00:19:58,177
threatened our
national security.

466
00:19:58,260 --> 00:19:59,470
Hoback:
The cypherpunks waged

467
00:19:59,553 --> 00:20:01,806
a massive battle
against the US government.

468
00:20:01,847 --> 00:20:04,100
Back:
I was sitting around
at university and thinking,

469
00:20:04,183 --> 00:20:06,102
man, this is,
this is so ridiculous.

470
00:20:06,143 --> 00:20:08,646
-Hoback: So, Adam,
being part punk...
-(electric guitar sting)

471
00:20:08,729 --> 00:20:11,649
...created an easily wearable
bit of illicit code.

472
00:20:11,691 --> 00:20:14,318
It was just a method
of encryption.

473
00:20:14,402 --> 00:20:16,278
Wear the shirt
while crossing a border,

474
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,030
and it could be considered
weapons trafficking.

475
00:20:18,114 --> 00:20:20,324
-(buzzing)
-Back: A few people
had tattoos with it on

476
00:20:20,366 --> 00:20:22,493
to, like, you know,
to make the argument that,

477
00:20:22,576 --> 00:20:24,161
"Well, can I,
can I leave the country now?

478
00:20:24,245 --> 00:20:26,205
I've got this on my arm,"
kind of thing.

479
00:20:26,539 --> 00:20:28,999
Hoback:
And if you've ever used
a secure messaging app,

480
00:20:29,834 --> 00:20:32,962
well, you have Adam and his
cypherpunk buddies to thank

481
00:20:33,045 --> 00:20:34,338
because they won.

482
00:20:34,422 --> 00:20:36,716
Except one key thing
evaded them.

483
00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:39,009
Back:
Permissionless electronic cash
for the internet.

484
00:20:39,093 --> 00:20:41,178
Hey, this could actually
change the world for the better.

485
00:20:41,220 --> 00:20:42,847
Hoback:
They understood
that in a future

486
00:20:42,930 --> 00:20:45,141
where everything would be
tracked and traced,

487
00:20:45,224 --> 00:20:47,685
you needed untraceable
digital cash.

488
00:20:47,768 --> 00:20:50,062
The holy grail was to find
a solution to this problem.

489
00:20:50,146 --> 00:20:51,230
Hoback:
And we're not talking about

490
00:20:51,313 --> 00:20:53,190
a digital representation
of money

491
00:20:53,274 --> 00:20:54,650
like when you use
a bank or credit card.

492
00:20:54,692 --> 00:20:57,111
-(buzzing)
-We're talking
entirely decentralized,

493
00:20:57,194 --> 00:20:59,697
-totally secure,
fully autonomous currencies
-(whooshing)

494
00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:03,492
spread across the globe that no
one could control or shut down.

495
00:21:03,534 --> 00:21:05,661
It all needed to work without
putting trust in a bank,

496
00:21:05,703 --> 00:21:07,872
a government,
or some big corporation.

497
00:21:08,581 --> 00:21:11,917
I want to tell you
how PayPal stole my money

498
00:21:12,001 --> 00:21:13,335
and my girlfriend.

499
00:21:13,836 --> 00:21:16,380
Hoback:
Over the years,
a few key cypherpunks

500
00:21:16,464 --> 00:21:18,924
took stabs at trying
to make this work.

501
00:21:19,383 --> 00:21:21,093
It was deemed impossible.

502
00:21:21,177 --> 00:21:25,014
But then, somehow, Satoshi
showed up and figured it out.

503
00:21:25,056 --> 00:21:26,891
Back:
You know, you talk to
a lot of technical people,

504
00:21:26,974 --> 00:21:30,102
and they will say of Bitcoin,
"I could have done that."

505
00:21:30,644 --> 00:21:33,647
I say it's actually much harder
than it looks. (laughs)

506
00:21:33,731 --> 00:21:35,232
I'm just trying to imagine,
like,

507
00:21:35,274 --> 00:21:37,151
who would've been
working around the clock

508
00:21:37,234 --> 00:21:39,070
to introduce something
like Bitcoin...?

509
00:21:39,153 --> 00:21:41,364
So, it could be somebody that
was on the cypherpunks list

510
00:21:41,405 --> 00:21:43,157
that nobody knew
the real name of.

511
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,368
Or it could be somebody younger.

512
00:21:45,409 --> 00:21:49,246
-(plucky music playing)
-(foreboding rumble)

513
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:51,499
Rachel-Rose O'Leary:
I think the question,

514
00:21:51,582 --> 00:21:53,459
"Who was Satoshi?"
always kind of creeps in.

515
00:21:53,542 --> 00:21:55,586
It's hard to avoid
that question.

516
00:21:55,628 --> 00:21:57,797
But, I've been told
it was a secret

517
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,384
which was known,
but that was closely guarded.

518
00:22:01,425 --> 00:22:02,885
That there were
people in Bitcoin

519
00:22:02,927 --> 00:22:04,762
who knew who Satoshi is,

520
00:22:04,804 --> 00:22:06,472
but that they
wouldn't reveal it.

521
00:22:06,555 --> 00:22:10,351
Um, and that maybe Satoshi
was a group of people

522
00:22:10,434 --> 00:22:12,019
that is, like, still active
in Bitcoin today.

523
00:22:12,103 --> 00:22:15,439
Hoback:
Rachel-Rose was
a journalist for CoinDesk.

524
00:22:15,481 --> 00:22:17,233
It's one of the most
popular media outlets

525
00:22:17,316 --> 00:22:19,443
covering the whole
crypto space.

526
00:22:19,527 --> 00:22:21,153
Since leaving CoinDesk,

527
00:22:21,237 --> 00:22:22,905
she'd become
a crypto-anarchist,

528
00:22:22,947 --> 00:22:26,492
-which is about using
subversive technology...
-(laughs)

529
00:22:26,575 --> 00:22:27,952
...to dodge government control.

530
00:22:27,993 --> 00:22:29,787
O'Leary: I was hoping
you might have the time

531
00:22:29,829 --> 00:22:31,580
to interview Amir
while you're here.

532
00:22:31,622 --> 00:22:33,624
He's, uh, one of
the first five developers

533
00:22:33,666 --> 00:22:35,626
to talk with Satoshi.

534
00:22:35,710 --> 00:22:37,920
-Hoback: Where is he
in Switzerland?
-He's downstairs.

535
00:22:37,962 --> 00:22:39,880
-Hoback: Oh, he's here?
Oh, he lives with you!
-(laughing)

536
00:22:39,964 --> 00:22:42,341
Who just happened
to be her boyfriend.

537
00:22:42,425 --> 00:22:43,509
Good to meet you.

538
00:22:43,801 --> 00:22:47,555
Amir Taaki is a British-Iranian
anarchist revolutionary

539
00:22:47,638 --> 00:22:49,432
and one of
the earliest programmers

540
00:22:49,473 --> 00:22:52,852
who worked on Bitcoin
after Satoshi handed it off.

541
00:22:52,935 --> 00:22:54,353
(speaking English)

542
00:22:54,437 --> 00:22:55,980
Hoback:
In terms of the "Fuck the man,

543
00:22:56,063 --> 00:22:58,524
burn down the system"
roots of Bitcoin,

544
00:22:58,607 --> 00:23:01,569
this guy is about
as real as it gets.

545
00:23:01,652 --> 00:23:03,112
Should I call it...

546
00:23:03,195 --> 00:23:04,905
Drug Market Ultra

547
00:23:04,989 --> 00:23:06,949
or Death Market Revive?

548
00:23:07,324 --> 00:23:08,659
These days, the Bitcoiners,

549
00:23:08,743 --> 00:23:10,703
they don't really talk
about me anymore.

550
00:23:10,786 --> 00:23:13,164
I'm no longer "in"
with the Bitcoin crowd.

551
00:23:13,205 --> 00:23:15,332
But, part of it is because,

552
00:23:15,374 --> 00:23:17,168
uh, I went to fight in Syria.

553
00:23:17,251 --> 00:23:18,794
(ominous music playing)

554
00:23:18,836 --> 00:23:21,714
And I was like-- I was out
of crypto for two years.

555
00:23:22,548 --> 00:23:25,342
There's a few photos of him
with Kalashnikov,

556
00:23:25,426 --> 00:23:28,054
and it's like, "Bitcoiner
Fights ISIS in Syria."

557
00:23:28,846 --> 00:23:30,139
Amir Taaki:
It was more like three years,

558
00:23:30,181 --> 00:23:33,059
because I was under house arrest
for one year as well.

559
00:23:33,142 --> 00:23:34,393
Hoback:
Oh wow. For what?

560
00:23:34,477 --> 00:23:36,729
Investigation of terrorism.

561
00:23:37,521 --> 00:23:40,524
Hoback:
How did you get
involved with Bitcoin?

562
00:23:40,566 --> 00:23:44,195
I remember when I first
got into Bitcoin in 2010.

563
00:23:44,236 --> 00:23:45,529
(dramatic music playing)

564
00:23:45,571 --> 00:23:47,365
I started to, like,
delve a bit deeper,

565
00:23:47,448 --> 00:23:49,367
started to look at the code.

566
00:23:49,450 --> 00:23:51,619
The code itself was very bad,

567
00:23:51,702 --> 00:23:54,455
didn't seem like the guy
who had wrote it

568
00:23:54,538 --> 00:23:56,749
was a professional developer.

569
00:23:57,333 --> 00:24:00,294
But, it wasn't nothing either.

570
00:24:00,378 --> 00:24:02,546
Conceptually, it was,
it was a leap.

571
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:04,298
It was interesting.

572
00:24:04,382 --> 00:24:05,674
Hoback: Was Satoshi
communicating with you

573
00:24:05,758 --> 00:24:07,968
in the early days at all?

574
00:24:08,052 --> 00:24:09,428
Just on the forums.

575
00:24:09,804 --> 00:24:11,889
Hoback:
Satoshi created
the Bitcoin Talk forum,

576
00:24:11,972 --> 00:24:14,642
where early enthusiasts
could interact with Satoshi

577
00:24:14,725 --> 00:24:17,061
who wrote 575 total posts.

578
00:24:17,144 --> 00:24:20,940
-(mouse wheel scrolling)
-Their posts usually had
a kind of bland academic style.

579
00:24:21,023 --> 00:24:23,192
Unless something
got under Satoshi's skin.

580
00:24:24,110 --> 00:24:25,903
Which Amir succeeded at.

581
00:24:25,986 --> 00:24:29,865
Taaki:
When I posted
about WikiLeaks...

582
00:24:29,949 --> 00:24:31,909
Hoback:
WikiLeaks, an online collective

583
00:24:31,951 --> 00:24:33,744
known for publishing
state secrets,

584
00:24:33,828 --> 00:24:36,080
had become the target
of the state.

585
00:24:36,163 --> 00:24:39,083
The US government pressured
Visa, MasterCard,

586
00:24:39,166 --> 00:24:41,168
PayPal to block all donations

587
00:24:41,252 --> 00:24:42,962
and freeze their funds.

588
00:24:43,045 --> 00:24:46,799
So, Amir suggested they start
accepting donations in Bitcoin.

589
00:24:47,174 --> 00:24:49,135
"PC World" picked up the story.

590
00:24:49,218 --> 00:24:52,763
Satoshi was afraid this
rapid adoption by WikiLeaks

591
00:24:52,805 --> 00:24:54,765
would attract
the wrong kind of attention

592
00:24:54,807 --> 00:24:56,767
from three-letter agencies.

593
00:24:56,851 --> 00:24:58,269
One of my favorite quotes,

594
00:24:58,686 --> 00:25:01,022
"WikiLeaks has kicked
the hornet's nest,

595
00:25:01,105 --> 00:25:03,733
and the swarm
is headed towards us."

596
00:25:03,774 --> 00:25:06,819
That's one theory
for Satoshi's departure.

597
00:25:07,570 --> 00:25:08,904
Hoback:
The very next day,

598
00:25:08,946 --> 00:25:12,199
that's when Satoshi made
their last post on the forum.

599
00:25:14,285 --> 00:25:17,455
But, Satoshi quietly
continued communication

600
00:25:17,538 --> 00:25:19,040
with a select few people,

601
00:25:19,123 --> 00:25:21,917
primarily with a guy
named Gavin Andresen,

602
00:25:22,001 --> 00:25:24,378
who had been an early
contributor to Bitcoin.

603
00:25:24,462 --> 00:25:25,796
I was kind of looking around

604
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,549
for an interesting
open source software project

605
00:25:28,632 --> 00:25:31,385
to contribute to
and stumbled across Bitcoin,

606
00:25:31,469 --> 00:25:33,012
and then got sucked in.

607
00:25:33,095 --> 00:25:35,139
Satoshi, when he left,

608
00:25:35,181 --> 00:25:37,058
he distributed control

609
00:25:37,141 --> 00:25:39,477
amongst different people
in the community.

610
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:40,770
Hoback:
Now, Gavin represented

611
00:25:40,811 --> 00:25:43,147
a very different type
of Bitcoiner than Amir.

612
00:25:43,230 --> 00:25:46,734
He wanted to work
with the state, not against it.

613
00:25:46,817 --> 00:25:49,070
He's a normie.
Like a boomer-normie.

614
00:25:49,153 --> 00:25:52,990
Hoback:
But, normalizing Bitcoin
appeared to be Satoshi's goal.

615
00:25:53,032 --> 00:25:56,035
And Gavin looked like he was
from an L.L.Bean catalog.

616
00:25:56,118 --> 00:25:57,995
Every time I tried
to make a change to Bitcoin,

617
00:25:58,079 --> 00:26:00,831
he tried to reject it.
I was like, dude, fuck off!

618
00:26:00,873 --> 00:26:02,291
Hoback:
On the Bitcoin website,

619
00:26:02,333 --> 00:26:05,711
Satoshi even replaced
their own email with Gavin's,

620
00:26:05,795 --> 00:26:08,297
seemingly rendering him
the spokesperson.

621
00:26:08,339 --> 00:26:11,926
So, I-I took over from
the mysterious Satoshi Nakamoto.

622
00:26:12,009 --> 00:26:14,637
Hoback:
But, Satoshi became annoyed
with Gavin's PR efforts

623
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,180
rather quickly, writing,

624
00:26:16,263 --> 00:26:18,015
"I wish you wouldn't
keep talking about me

625
00:26:18,099 --> 00:26:20,184
"as a mysterious
shadowy figure.

626
00:26:20,226 --> 00:26:23,521
The press just turns that
into a pirate currency angle."

627
00:26:23,604 --> 00:26:27,024
Then, Gavin did something that
mortified early Bitcoiners,

628
00:26:27,108 --> 00:26:29,860
prompting Satoshi
to permanently cut ties.

629
00:26:29,944 --> 00:26:33,155
My last email to him was
telling him that I had

630
00:26:33,239 --> 00:26:36,075
agreed to go visit
the folks at the CIA.

631
00:26:36,158 --> 00:26:37,368
♪♪

632
00:26:37,451 --> 00:26:39,036
Taaki:
Gavin Andresen announced

633
00:26:39,078 --> 00:26:43,040
that he was visiting the CIA
to present Bitcoin.

634
00:26:43,082 --> 00:26:45,543
Everybody was
absolutely shocked.

635
00:26:45,626 --> 00:26:47,878
Like, dude,
what are you doing?

636
00:26:48,337 --> 00:26:50,339
And after that,
Satoshi just disappeared.

637
00:26:50,381 --> 00:26:52,466
Nobody heard from him again.

638
00:26:52,550 --> 00:26:54,009
Hoback:
Which was good timing

639
00:26:54,051 --> 00:26:58,264
because Bitcoin was about to
find its first real-use case:

640
00:26:58,806 --> 00:27:00,599
buying drugs.

641
00:27:01,267 --> 00:27:03,519
YouTuber:
Something special
came in the mail

642
00:27:03,602 --> 00:27:05,396
just today from Silk Road.

643
00:27:05,438 --> 00:27:08,691
reporter:
Imagine logging on to
an Amazon-like marketplace,

644
00:27:08,774 --> 00:27:10,901
only instead of
household items and shoes,

645
00:27:10,943 --> 00:27:12,236
you can buy heroin, meth,

646
00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:14,864
and pretty much any other drug
you can think of.

647
00:27:14,947 --> 00:27:16,949
"Many thanks and much love."

648
00:27:17,033 --> 00:27:19,452
Yeah, I'm pretty sure
there are some, uh,

649
00:27:19,535 --> 00:27:21,662
people interested in drugs,
let's say,

650
00:27:21,746 --> 00:27:23,497
who ended up
being relatively wealthy.

651
00:27:23,956 --> 00:27:26,751
Hoback:
While this sent
Bitcoin's value skyrocketing,

652
00:27:26,792 --> 00:27:29,086
its reputation
was easy pickings.

653
00:27:29,170 --> 00:27:30,880
It's untraceable,
and that makes me think

654
00:27:30,921 --> 00:27:33,674
that the real purpose of
Bitcoin is to use it for drugs

655
00:27:33,758 --> 00:27:36,343
or to buy weapons illegally.

656
00:27:36,427 --> 00:27:39,680
Hoback:
Although anarchists like Amir
were loving it,

657
00:27:39,764 --> 00:27:42,016
the emerging generation
of corporate Bitcoiners

658
00:27:42,099 --> 00:27:45,936
wanted to improve its image,
give Bitcoin a friendlier face.

659
00:27:46,062 --> 00:27:48,272
reporter:
Bitcoin Jesus himself
joins us on the phone.

660
00:27:48,314 --> 00:27:50,608
-Roger, great to have you back.
-Roger Ver (on phone):
Hello, everyone.

661
00:27:50,649 --> 00:27:51,692
Thank you for having me again.

662
00:27:51,984 --> 00:27:54,320
Hoback: Roger Ver
put millions of dollars

663
00:27:54,403 --> 00:27:56,781
into some of
the first Bitcoin startups,

664
00:27:56,864 --> 00:27:59,325
eventually rendering him
a billionaire.

665
00:27:59,408 --> 00:28:02,286
But, when Roger first heard
about Bitcoin,

666
00:28:02,370 --> 00:28:03,829
he had what's best described

667
00:28:03,913 --> 00:28:06,957
as a near-religious
experience.

668
00:28:07,041 --> 00:28:09,043
Got so excited about Bitcoin
and didn't sleep for a week

669
00:28:09,126 --> 00:28:10,669
and literally had to be
taken to the hospital,

670
00:28:10,753 --> 00:28:11,879
and they gave me a sedative.

671
00:28:11,962 --> 00:28:14,423
Anybody here
that's sick of the government

672
00:28:14,507 --> 00:28:15,758
inflating the money supply

673
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,843
to pay to kill people
all around the world?

674
00:28:17,927 --> 00:28:19,220
Stop using their money!

675
00:28:19,303 --> 00:28:20,930
This was like a dream
come true for me.

676
00:28:21,013 --> 00:28:23,140
The-The thing I've been waiting
almost my entire life

677
00:28:23,182 --> 00:28:24,558
finally arrived,
and so, of course,

678
00:28:24,642 --> 00:28:26,352
I was gonna be busy
promoting that.

679
00:28:26,435 --> 00:28:29,021
Hoback:
Like a prophet,
Roger spread Bitcoin

680
00:28:29,105 --> 00:28:31,565
to anyone he met,
earning him the title

681
00:28:31,649 --> 00:28:33,693
of Bitcoin Jesus.

682
00:28:33,776 --> 00:28:37,029
(speaking Japanese)

683
00:28:39,824 --> 00:28:41,367
I think the world
would just plain work better

684
00:28:41,450 --> 00:28:44,495
and be better for everybody
if there wasn't a ruling class

685
00:28:44,578 --> 00:28:46,622
called the government. Uh...

686
00:28:46,706 --> 00:28:48,082
But, I don't want chaos.
I want order

687
00:28:48,165 --> 00:28:50,084
and things to work smoothly and
people to deal with each other

688
00:28:50,167 --> 00:28:52,586
on a voluntary basis to make
the world a more orderly,

689
00:28:52,670 --> 00:28:54,130
prosperous place for everybody.

690
00:28:58,843 --> 00:29:02,304
(speaking English)

691
00:29:07,518 --> 00:29:10,563
(dramatic music playing)

692
00:29:11,605 --> 00:29:14,483
Hoback:
Nouriel Roubini
is a famous economist,

693
00:29:14,525 --> 00:29:18,070
best known for predicting
the 2008 financial collapse,

694
00:29:18,154 --> 00:29:20,948
earning him the nickname
Dr. Doom.

695
00:29:21,032 --> 00:29:22,158
I'm a pain for them

696
00:29:22,199 --> 00:29:24,744
because I'm public enemy
number one of crypto.

697
00:29:24,827 --> 00:29:28,080
YouTuber:
Nouriel Roubini.
He can either be

698
00:29:28,164 --> 00:29:30,541
the world's biggest
crypto troll

699
00:29:30,583 --> 00:29:32,209
or an idiot.

700
00:29:32,293 --> 00:29:35,171
Hoback:
He's also known for throwing
wild hot tub parties,

701
00:29:35,254 --> 00:29:38,382
where he looks to have
"10 girls to every one guy."

702
00:29:38,424 --> 00:29:41,594
You know, I usually say
that I'm not, uh, "Dr. Doom,"

703
00:29:41,677 --> 00:29:43,304
I'm Dr. Realist.

704
00:29:44,138 --> 00:29:47,767
Honestly, I believe that
crypto, even blockchain,

705
00:29:48,517 --> 00:29:52,271
is the biggest fad
in financial history.

706
00:29:52,772 --> 00:29:56,150
In crypto, somebody steals
your private key,

707
00:29:56,233 --> 00:29:59,570
your money is gone,
your wealth is gone forever,

708
00:29:59,612 --> 00:30:01,447
for good. It disappears.

709
00:30:01,530 --> 00:30:02,782
reporter:
This guy is out

710
00:30:02,865 --> 00:30:05,242
of $225 million.

711
00:30:05,326 --> 00:30:07,620
Bitcoiner:
Seven and a half
thousand bitcoins

712
00:30:07,703 --> 00:30:09,914
on a hard drive
that I'd thrown out.

713
00:30:09,997 --> 00:30:11,874
If somebody steals
my credit card

714
00:30:11,916 --> 00:30:14,168
or gets my bank deposit,

715
00:30:14,251 --> 00:30:16,128
literally, I make a phone call,

716
00:30:16,212 --> 00:30:18,923
and I'm made
100% whole on that.

717
00:30:18,964 --> 00:30:20,591
We have reasons why

718
00:30:20,633 --> 00:30:22,968
we can monitor
financial transactions.

719
00:30:23,052 --> 00:30:25,346
Some government may abuse it,

720
00:30:25,429 --> 00:30:28,182
but there is no civilized
country in the world,

721
00:30:28,265 --> 00:30:31,060
or government,
is gonna allow crypto.

722
00:30:31,143 --> 00:30:33,062
There will be a crackdown,

723
00:30:33,145 --> 00:30:34,730
and it's all gonna disappear.

724
00:30:34,772 --> 00:30:38,234
This is about
undermining the Federal Reserve.

725
00:30:38,317 --> 00:30:41,612
This is about dis-intermediating
the nation-state.

726
00:30:41,696 --> 00:30:44,073
Satoshi, whoever he or she was,

727
00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:45,741
maybe was an idealist.

728
00:30:45,783 --> 00:30:48,994
Maybe he really cared
about protecting people

729
00:30:49,078 --> 00:30:51,956
from excessive abuse
of power and so on.

730
00:30:51,997 --> 00:30:54,166
The ideological origins

731
00:30:54,250 --> 00:30:57,962
of cryptocurrency, of Bitcoin,
of Satoshi himself,

732
00:30:58,003 --> 00:31:00,715
unequivocally anti nation-state

733
00:31:00,798 --> 00:31:02,717
and pro human freedom.

734
00:31:03,175 --> 00:31:05,261
Hoback:
But, they had a problem.

735
00:31:05,302 --> 00:31:07,304
While Satoshi understood
that Bitcoin

736
00:31:07,346 --> 00:31:11,183
wasn't actually anonymous,
just about everyone else...

737
00:31:11,267 --> 00:31:12,643
They didn't realize
it was traceable.

738
00:31:12,727 --> 00:31:15,312
It wasn't until
there was analysis done,

739
00:31:15,354 --> 00:31:18,649
cryptographers looking into it
started to see, actually,

740
00:31:18,733 --> 00:31:19,817
there's links.

741
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:21,485
There's like a trail
on the blockchain

742
00:31:21,569 --> 00:31:22,570
that we can actually map.

743
00:31:22,653 --> 00:31:24,155
Hoback:
So, if someone who stole

744
00:31:24,196 --> 00:31:26,073
a bunch of Bitcoin
tries to cash out,

745
00:31:26,157 --> 00:31:27,658
you can see that
their Bitcoin wallet

746
00:31:27,742 --> 00:31:29,452
contains the stolen funds.

747
00:31:29,493 --> 00:31:33,039
-(pop, yelling, banging)
-Which is how people doing
illegal shit got caught.

748
00:31:33,122 --> 00:31:35,291
Today, the FBI
successfully seized

749
00:31:35,374 --> 00:31:38,335
criminal proceeds
from a Bitcoin wallet.

750
00:31:38,377 --> 00:31:39,503
♪♪

751
00:31:39,545 --> 00:31:41,422
Hoback:
So, Amir gathered
some hackers together

752
00:31:41,505 --> 00:31:42,923
in a sketchy squad

753
00:31:43,007 --> 00:31:45,259
to try and solve
Bitcoin's privacy problem.

754
00:31:45,342 --> 00:31:47,845
They hired a young kid
as their lead programmer.

755
00:31:47,887 --> 00:31:49,805
His name was Peter Todd.

756
00:31:49,847 --> 00:31:52,349
Peter Todd was living with us.

757
00:31:52,433 --> 00:31:54,685
You know,
that's how I got to know him.

758
00:31:54,727 --> 00:31:58,856
We put Peter Todd as the
chief scientist of our project

759
00:31:58,898 --> 00:32:01,275
to put him in opposition
to Gavin Andresen.

760
00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:02,318
♪♪

761
00:32:02,401 --> 00:32:05,029
You know, we're sitting in
a freezing cold room

762
00:32:05,112 --> 00:32:07,865
because it's an abandoned
building with no heat.

763
00:32:07,907 --> 00:32:09,658
And it's very unique.

764
00:32:09,742 --> 00:32:10,951
But, equally though,

765
00:32:11,077 --> 00:32:13,662
you get people who know
what they're talking about.

766
00:32:13,704 --> 00:32:17,083
You need to give people space to
actually work on these issues.

767
00:32:17,166 --> 00:32:20,169
-(birds chirping)
-(intriguing music playing)

768
00:32:20,211 --> 00:32:21,962
Hoback:
Nine years later,

769
00:32:22,046 --> 00:32:24,256
Peter was still trying
to solve these issues.

770
00:32:25,091 --> 00:32:27,510
Peter Todd:
There's a lot of people who
would like to see cash go away

771
00:32:27,551 --> 00:32:30,388
and like see your ability to
transact anonymously disappear.

772
00:32:30,471 --> 00:32:33,349
I mean, this,
this is a very dangerous thing.

773
00:32:35,226 --> 00:32:37,770
This needs to be treated
as a human rights issue.

774
00:32:37,853 --> 00:32:39,355
Hoback:
How'd you get into caving?

775
00:32:39,438 --> 00:32:41,649
Todd:
There was something called
the Toronto Caving Group.

776
00:32:42,274 --> 00:32:45,027
Didn't really pick the best
place to live for good caves.

777
00:32:47,238 --> 00:32:49,448
Here, you can actually see, uh,

778
00:32:49,532 --> 00:32:52,576
stalactites and stalagmites
sort of forming a column.

779
00:32:52,618 --> 00:32:56,288
So, you know this thing hasn't
moved for probably 30, 40 years.

780
00:32:56,372 --> 00:32:57,915
It's unlikely it'll collapse
on our heads,

781
00:32:57,998 --> 00:32:59,959
but one day, it will. (sighs)

782
00:33:00,042 --> 00:33:01,377
Hoback:
Tell me about your endeavors

783
00:33:01,460 --> 00:33:03,879
to try to make
a digital currency yourself.

784
00:33:03,963 --> 00:33:06,006
Well, you know,

785
00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:08,259
in, like, the mid-2000s,

786
00:33:08,342 --> 00:33:11,220
I was off getting
a fine arts degree.

787
00:33:11,846 --> 00:33:15,975
Started working halftime,
like, 2007, full-time in 2008,

788
00:33:16,058 --> 00:33:18,894
and I finally kinda
finished it in sort of 2009,

789
00:33:18,978 --> 00:33:20,771
and then went on
to start doing physics.

790
00:33:21,105 --> 00:33:25,026
Hoback:
So, have people suspected you
of being Satoshi at any point?

791
00:33:25,109 --> 00:33:27,737
(Peter Todd speaking)

792
00:33:29,321 --> 00:33:31,282
Hoback:
Why do they, uh,
think you're behind it?

793
00:33:32,158 --> 00:33:35,745
(Todd speaking)

794
00:33:36,746 --> 00:33:38,539
Hoback:
It was back in 2001,

795
00:33:38,622 --> 00:33:40,958
when Peter Todd,
a self-taught coder,

796
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,627
first contacted Adam Back.

797
00:33:43,669 --> 00:33:45,629
He was only 15 at the time,

798
00:33:45,713 --> 00:33:47,465
and, like some sort of savant,

799
00:33:47,548 --> 00:33:50,676
he already had a deep
understanding of digital cash.

800
00:33:51,510 --> 00:33:53,804
You almost learned how to code
before you learned how to read.

801
00:33:53,846 --> 00:33:54,805
Yep.

802
00:33:54,889 --> 00:33:56,307
That's wild.

803
00:33:56,348 --> 00:33:58,476
The logic of coding
seemed pretty obvious to me.

804
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:01,353
Were you just interested in
those issues in high school?

805
00:34:01,437 --> 00:34:04,106
Todd:
I happened to be
a young libertarian,

806
00:34:05,232 --> 00:34:07,360
and it was pretty obvious
to me that

807
00:34:07,443 --> 00:34:10,488
control of money
is a very big problem

808
00:34:10,571 --> 00:34:11,655
for freedom of speech.

809
00:34:11,697 --> 00:34:15,534
We should find a way to
have decentralized banking.

810
00:34:16,243 --> 00:34:17,870
Hoback:
Over the years,
Peter became

811
00:34:17,953 --> 00:34:20,331
an increasingly
controversial figure.

812
00:34:20,414 --> 00:34:23,292
The war on cash is the thing
that has to be stopped.

813
00:34:23,334 --> 00:34:25,294
And, frankly, everyone
in this audience,

814
00:34:25,336 --> 00:34:28,255
if you don't use cash
to go pay regularly,

815
00:34:28,339 --> 00:34:30,883
I don't, I don't respect you
as a Bitcoiner.

816
00:34:30,966 --> 00:34:32,176
Like, that's just a fact.

817
00:34:32,259 --> 00:34:34,345
If you're using credit
every single day, fuck you.

818
00:34:34,387 --> 00:34:36,389
(applause)

819
00:34:36,472 --> 00:34:39,475
Hoback:
Let's just say his takes
weren't always appreciated.

820
00:34:39,517 --> 00:34:41,477
Todd: One day,
Bitcoin will go to zero.

821
00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:42,978
You know,
it will eventually fail,

822
00:34:43,020 --> 00:34:44,188
like everything else.

823
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:46,232
Peter will always try
to disagree with you.

824
00:34:46,315 --> 00:34:49,360
He's the contrarian
of contrarians.

825
00:34:49,402 --> 00:34:51,487
Todd: You know,
the people who really know...

826
00:34:52,071 --> 00:34:53,948
know how this stuff works,
I think realize

827
00:34:54,031 --> 00:34:56,325
that anyone competent enough
to go do Bitcoin

828
00:34:56,367 --> 00:34:58,953
probably would be competent
enough to not leave any traces.

829
00:34:59,537 --> 00:35:02,623
Hoback:
I mean, Satoshi left
a lot of digital history.

830
00:35:02,707 --> 00:35:05,626
Todd:
Yeah, but digital history
doesn't mean much, you know?

831
00:35:05,710 --> 00:35:08,713
Doesn't necessarily give you
any insight into who they were.

832
00:35:08,796 --> 00:35:10,381
♪♪

833
00:35:10,423 --> 00:35:12,216
Remember, things that
look like mistakes

834
00:35:12,299 --> 00:35:14,051
can be intentionally
misleading.

835
00:35:14,885 --> 00:35:17,972
If I were Satoshi, I would have
destroyed my ability

836
00:35:18,055 --> 00:35:20,141
to go prove I was Satoshi.

837
00:35:20,224 --> 00:35:22,435
Because then,
you'd never be tempted.

838
00:35:25,563 --> 00:35:27,815
Hoback: But, uh,
you're-you're not Satoshi?

839
00:35:28,649 --> 00:35:29,650
Oh, no, I am Satoshi.

840
00:35:29,734 --> 00:35:31,485
-I'm Satoshi Nakamoto.
-(Hoback laughs)

841
00:35:31,569 --> 00:35:33,779
-Hoback: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're all Satoshi.
-Todd: Yep.

842
00:35:36,198 --> 00:35:39,452
(intriguing music playing)

843
00:35:42,621 --> 00:35:45,416
-(church bell ringing)
-Todd: It's a monkey, I guess.

844
00:35:45,958 --> 00:35:48,461
-Back: Yep.
-Could be better.

845
00:35:49,962 --> 00:35:51,547
Hoback:
How'd you guys meet?

846
00:35:51,630 --> 00:35:52,673
Online first.

847
00:35:52,757 --> 00:35:56,552
I got more actively interested
in Bitcoin in 2013.

848
00:35:56,594 --> 00:35:59,263
Had the feeling that I don't
understand how this works.

849
00:35:59,346 --> 00:36:00,431
There are people
developing it,

850
00:36:00,473 --> 00:36:01,807
maybe I can find out
where they hang out.

851
00:36:01,974 --> 00:36:04,268
Hoback:
So, still trying to understand
how Bitcoin works,

852
00:36:04,351 --> 00:36:05,603
Adam heads over
to the forum

853
00:36:05,686 --> 00:36:08,898
and, for the first time ever,
makes some posts.

854
00:36:08,981 --> 00:36:10,107
A lot of posts.

855
00:36:10,191 --> 00:36:12,401
Trying to prove his relevance

856
00:36:12,443 --> 00:36:14,695
and his apparent ignorance.

857
00:36:15,237 --> 00:36:17,698
I was a guy
who had a fine arts degree.

858
00:36:17,782 --> 00:36:20,576
Yet, you know,
I still understood the system
better than he did.

859
00:36:20,618 --> 00:36:23,287
Hoback:
So, to clear things up,
Adam started a thread,

860
00:36:23,371 --> 00:36:25,623
"Who is this annoying
Adam Back guy?"

861
00:36:25,664 --> 00:36:27,708
Of course, the Bitcoiners
knew who he was.

862
00:36:27,792 --> 00:36:30,294
I knew who you were.
I knew you invented Hashcash.

863
00:36:30,336 --> 00:36:32,004
And here you pop up,
and you were clueless.

864
00:36:32,088 --> 00:36:35,633
Hoback:
And they just thought
he was, well, pretending.

865
00:36:35,674 --> 00:36:37,593
Best evidence of
him being Satoshi.

866
00:36:37,635 --> 00:36:39,762
-Back: Of not being Satoshi.
-Todd: Being Satoshi.

867
00:36:39,804 --> 00:36:41,972
-Uh--
-Only Satoshi would go
to such great lengths

868
00:36:42,014 --> 00:36:44,183
to go and make sure no one
thought they were Satoshi.

869
00:36:44,266 --> 00:36:46,352
By the way,
everyone's Satoshi.

870
00:36:46,435 --> 00:36:49,313
Yeah, except for me.
I'm not Satoshi. (laughs)

871
00:36:49,397 --> 00:36:51,816
Hoback:
But the most suspicious thing

872
00:36:51,899 --> 00:36:54,318
was the timing of
his appearance on the forums.

873
00:36:54,402 --> 00:36:56,404
The same day Adam registered,

874
00:36:56,487 --> 00:37:00,324
a researcher discovered
a bug in Bitcoin's code.

875
00:37:00,366 --> 00:37:03,160
It enabled them to see
how much Satoshi had mined.

876
00:37:03,244 --> 00:37:06,080
-About a million Bitcoin.
-(whooshing)

877
00:37:06,163 --> 00:37:08,207
Adam seemed concerned, writing,

878
00:37:08,290 --> 00:37:10,835
"Perhaps we're forced
to protect him."

879
00:37:10,876 --> 00:37:12,002
And he had a plan.

880
00:37:12,086 --> 00:37:14,672
And I had a potential way
to improve Bitcoin's privacy...

881
00:37:14,755 --> 00:37:18,467
Hoback:
He wanted to make
Bitcoin truly anonymous.

882
00:37:18,509 --> 00:37:22,096
Which would also mean
Satoshi could spend their stash

883
00:37:22,179 --> 00:37:23,431
without anyone knowing.

884
00:37:23,514 --> 00:37:25,015
Back:
So, I talked to developers

885
00:37:25,099 --> 00:37:27,727
about how do--
how do you achieve this.

886
00:37:28,018 --> 00:37:30,354
Hoback:
And Adam's coming-out party
on the forums

887
00:37:30,396 --> 00:37:32,565
positioned him
so that within a year,

888
00:37:32,648 --> 00:37:34,525
he could start Blockstream.

889
00:37:34,608 --> 00:37:35,860
Because Bitcoin's problems,

890
00:37:35,901 --> 00:37:37,945
they just couldn't be solved
in a squad,

891
00:37:38,029 --> 00:37:40,531
like what Peter and Amir
had attempted a year earlier.

892
00:37:40,614 --> 00:37:42,199
It required serious funding.

893
00:37:42,241 --> 00:37:43,826
Back:
It's a big undertaking.

894
00:37:43,868 --> 00:37:44,660
So, it'd need a company,

895
00:37:44,702 --> 00:37:46,037
it needs to employ
lots of people.

896
00:37:46,162 --> 00:37:49,040
Hoback:
Blockstream could do what
Satoshi couldn't.

897
00:37:49,123 --> 00:37:50,916
Raise money, build a huge team,

898
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,045
and solve Bitcoin's
technical problems.

899
00:37:54,128 --> 00:37:56,964
You could say Blockstream is
a kind of corporate Satoshi?

900
00:37:57,048 --> 00:38:01,052
-Mm-hmm.
-Like, how did he become
the head of the company

901
00:38:01,135 --> 00:38:03,220
that became
the stewards of Bitcoin?

902
00:38:03,262 --> 00:38:04,555
Uh, it's a good question.

903
00:38:04,638 --> 00:38:08,309
He kind of, uh, shows up
and very quickly

904
00:38:08,392 --> 00:38:10,895
becomes integrated
into the Bitcoin community.

905
00:38:10,936 --> 00:38:14,607
Hoback:
Where he knew to pursue
the right kind of talent.

906
00:38:14,690 --> 00:38:16,400
So, Adam,
when you started Blockstream,

907
00:38:16,442 --> 00:38:18,069
did you try
to get Peter on board?

908
00:38:18,110 --> 00:38:20,905
-Well, kinda intentionally not.
-Yeah.

909
00:38:20,946 --> 00:38:23,366
We talked about saying it would
actually be much better

910
00:38:23,407 --> 00:38:25,659
-if I didn't work
for Blockstream.
-Back: Mm-hmm.

911
00:38:25,743 --> 00:38:27,995
'Cause it's better
if Blockstream
doesn't have everyone.

912
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:29,580
♪♪

913
00:38:29,663 --> 00:38:32,124
Hoback:
While Peter Todd decided
not to work at Blockstream,

914
00:38:32,208 --> 00:38:35,211
his friend Greg Maxwell did.

915
00:38:35,252 --> 00:38:36,420
We're building infrastructure

916
00:38:36,504 --> 00:38:37,922
that Bitcoin needs
going forward.

917
00:38:38,005 --> 00:38:40,591
Hoback:
In fact, Greg founded
the company with Adam.

918
00:38:40,674 --> 00:38:42,843
O'Leary:
People like Greg Maxwell,

919
00:38:42,927 --> 00:38:44,929
they were considered
the, the thought leaders.

920
00:38:45,012 --> 00:38:47,390
Hoback:
Greg doesn't do interviews
anymore, right?

921
00:38:47,431 --> 00:38:51,477
Getting him to come
out of his, uh, home is, uh...

922
00:38:51,936 --> 00:38:55,523
Hoback:
...seemingly off the table,
with Greg writing to me,

923
00:38:55,773 --> 00:38:58,359
"I'm pretty exhausted
from years of harassment

924
00:38:58,442 --> 00:39:00,277
"driven by conspiracy theories.

925
00:39:00,319 --> 00:39:02,571
I feel like I've given enough."

926
00:39:03,656 --> 00:39:06,450
So, do you think
they were working with Satoshi?

927
00:39:06,492 --> 00:39:08,953
It was very mysterious.
Uh, th-there is the question

928
00:39:08,994 --> 00:39:11,122
of whether Adam Back is Satoshi.

929
00:39:11,372 --> 00:39:12,790
Hoback:
There's been a lot of debate

930
00:39:12,873 --> 00:39:16,419
over which of these cypherpunks
is most likely to be Satoshi.

931
00:39:16,460 --> 00:39:19,338
Hal Finney received
the first Bitcoin transaction,

932
00:39:19,422 --> 00:39:22,675
but he died of Lou Gehrig's
disease in 2014.

933
00:39:23,092 --> 00:39:24,427
Well, sort of.

934
00:39:24,510 --> 00:39:25,928
His head is frozen.

935
00:39:25,970 --> 00:39:27,722
So, if he's Satoshi,

936
00:39:27,805 --> 00:39:29,640
you'd probably have
to solve cryonics

937
00:39:29,724 --> 00:39:31,642
to get the key
that's stored in his head.

938
00:39:31,684 --> 00:39:34,228
But, there were some problems
with this theory.

939
00:39:34,311 --> 00:39:37,815
Satoshi's code bears zero
resemblance to Hal Finney's.

940
00:39:37,857 --> 00:39:40,484
-(shutter snaps)
-And Hal was photographed
in a 10-mile race,

941
00:39:40,568 --> 00:39:43,779
while Satoshi was
actively emailing with someone.

942
00:39:43,821 --> 00:39:47,700
In 2015, The New York Times
pointed to Nick Szabo,

943
00:39:47,783 --> 00:39:49,994
a reclusive cypherpunk
who envisioned something

944
00:39:50,036 --> 00:39:51,370
pretty similar to Bitcoin.

945
00:39:51,454 --> 00:39:53,956
Would you ever be
open to, to doing,

946
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,500
like, an interview on camera
about all of that?

947
00:39:56,542 --> 00:39:57,877
The key piece of evidence,

948
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,004
he changed the date
of a blog entry,

949
00:40:00,046 --> 00:40:02,339
presumably so it would seem
like he came up

950
00:40:02,381 --> 00:40:04,925
with this idea after Bitcoin.

951
00:40:05,468 --> 00:40:07,928
Thing is, he'd actually
announced months earlier

952
00:40:08,012 --> 00:40:10,765
that he'd be doing reruns
of his blog favorite entries,

953
00:40:10,848 --> 00:40:13,851
making this piece of evidence
look a lot less suspicious.

954
00:40:13,893 --> 00:40:16,103
(speaking English)

955
00:40:17,563 --> 00:40:19,023
-(Hoback laughs)
-(room chatter)

956
00:40:19,065 --> 00:40:22,026
Hoback:
There's Wei Dai,
who is a famous cryptographer.

957
00:40:22,068 --> 00:40:24,820
He claims there are no real
photos of him on the internet.

958
00:40:24,862 --> 00:40:26,697
But, he did speculate
that Satoshi

959
00:40:26,739 --> 00:40:28,866
must have been someone
with energy and time

960
00:40:28,949 --> 00:40:31,994
that isn't obligated to publish
papers under their real name.

961
00:40:32,036 --> 00:40:34,163
There's Len Sassaman,
David Chaum, Dorian Nakamoto...

962
00:40:34,205 --> 00:40:37,208
-(names overlapping,
echoing over each other)
-(mouse clicking)

963
00:40:37,291 --> 00:40:38,793
The list goes on and on.

964
00:40:38,876 --> 00:40:40,628
I am Satoshi!

965
00:40:40,711 --> 00:40:41,587
Okay!

966
00:40:41,879 --> 00:40:44,924
The biggest critic of crypto
is Satoshi himself.

967
00:40:45,549 --> 00:40:48,552
Hoback:
And while we could pick apart
each of these theories,

968
00:40:48,594 --> 00:40:50,638
the evidence pointing
in Adam's direction

969
00:40:50,721 --> 00:40:52,723
was a lot harder
to poke holes in.

970
00:40:52,765 --> 00:40:54,975
So, we're gonna focus on that.

971
00:40:55,059 --> 00:40:56,811
Though for a long time,
people hadn't really

972
00:40:56,894 --> 00:40:59,397
considered him a suspect.
And that's because

973
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,315
he wasn't just cited
in the white paper.

974
00:41:01,399 --> 00:41:04,985
He was the only person called
out by name in the body of it.

975
00:41:05,069 --> 00:41:08,155
But, was Satoshi simply
hiding in plain sight?

976
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,491
-(arrow slams)
-Back: I've never done it
before, so...

977
00:41:10,574 --> 00:41:12,868
-Okay. It's 99%.
-(laughs) It's just one--
Just this one hand, right?

978
00:41:12,952 --> 00:41:14,745
Hoback:
You see, like Satoshi,

979
00:41:14,787 --> 00:41:16,622
he writes in
a typically measured style

980
00:41:16,706 --> 00:41:18,124
with similar spelling choices.

981
00:41:19,709 --> 00:41:22,002
Now, Adam also claims that
he didn't really get involved

982
00:41:22,086 --> 00:41:24,505
until four years
after the launch of Bitcoin.

983
00:41:24,588 --> 00:41:26,716
In 2013, I felt like, you know,

984
00:41:26,799 --> 00:41:28,134
the embarrassing late guy,

985
00:41:28,217 --> 00:41:31,595
given that I should've known
better at the beginning, right?

986
00:41:31,637 --> 00:41:33,013
(laughs) And, uh...

987
00:41:33,097 --> 00:41:34,390
Hoback:
Thing is,

988
00:41:34,473 --> 00:41:35,766
back in 2011,

989
00:41:35,808 --> 00:41:37,727
you can see he was
on a mailing list,

990
00:41:37,810 --> 00:41:39,812
openly defending Bitcoin,

991
00:41:39,895 --> 00:41:43,357
and sharing complex insights
into Bitcoin's expansion.

992
00:41:43,441 --> 00:41:45,943
Weirder still, in 2012,

993
00:41:45,985 --> 00:41:49,238
he began making revisions
to Bitcoin's Wikipedia page,

994
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,409
eventually restoring
the section about Satoshi...

995
00:41:54,326 --> 00:41:57,329
Just, like, tried to right
a slight historical wrong there.

996
00:41:57,413 --> 00:42:00,624
-Hoback: ...even adding
possible suspects.
-(shoots)

997
00:42:00,666 --> 00:42:03,169
Just leaving out his own name.

998
00:42:05,212 --> 00:42:06,255
(shoots arrow)

999
00:42:07,465 --> 00:42:09,675
How much is
Satoshi worth these days?

1000
00:42:09,759 --> 00:42:12,762
I don't know. Um, I mean,
even the number of coins

1001
00:42:12,845 --> 00:42:14,805
that he might have
is a bit speculative.

1002
00:42:14,889 --> 00:42:17,516
If they had a million coins,

1003
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,560
whoever Satoshi is
would technically have

1004
00:42:19,643 --> 00:42:22,688
a huge amount of influence
if it becomes the,

1005
00:42:22,772 --> 00:42:24,982
-the new global currency, right?
-Back: Right.

1006
00:42:25,024 --> 00:42:26,942
Hoback:
That would mean that
whoever Satoshi is

1007
00:42:27,026 --> 00:42:30,237
might be one of the most
powerful people in the world.

1008
00:42:33,324 --> 00:42:34,867
♪♪

1009
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:36,702
Even the slightest suggestion

1010
00:42:36,786 --> 00:42:38,788
that Satoshi had access
to their coins

1011
00:42:38,871 --> 00:42:41,082
had the power
to tumble markets.

1012
00:42:42,666 --> 00:42:45,836
Market fear has begun
to overtake rationality.

1013
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,672
Hoback: But selling
a million coins all at once?

1014
00:42:48,714 --> 00:42:50,716
If these coins were dumped...

1015
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,260
Hoback:
That could kill Bitcoin.

1016
00:42:53,344 --> 00:42:55,805
-(zaps)
-And as the stakes grew,

1017
00:42:55,846 --> 00:42:58,849
it kinda mattered
if Satoshi still had access.

1018
00:42:58,891 --> 00:43:00,768
If you were Satoshi,
where would you store

1019
00:43:00,851 --> 00:43:02,645
your private key
to the, uh, trove?

1020
00:43:02,686 --> 00:43:05,022
I don't know. That's a lot
of bitcoins, isn't it?

1021
00:43:05,106 --> 00:43:05,981
(Hoback laughs)

1022
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,318
Hoback:
What do you think Satoshi
might've done with that key?

1023
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,278
I don't know. I mean,

1024
00:43:11,362 --> 00:43:14,865
some people speculate that
he might've deleted them.

1025
00:43:14,907 --> 00:43:17,243
But, of course, we don't know--
we wouldn't know, right?

1026
00:43:17,702 --> 00:43:19,620
Hoback:
But, we could've known.

1027
00:43:19,704 --> 00:43:20,996
You see, there's a way

1028
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,749
to verifiably destroy
your bitcoins.

1029
00:43:23,833 --> 00:43:25,876
It's called burning the coins,

1030
00:43:25,918 --> 00:43:28,713
and it's done in a public way
for all to see...

1031
00:43:28,754 --> 00:43:31,340
-(bursting)
-...on the blockchain.

1032
00:43:31,424 --> 00:43:33,509
♪♪

1033
00:43:33,551 --> 00:43:35,052
Bitcoiner:
You could burn all the coins

1034
00:43:35,094 --> 00:43:38,389
because that would remove the
small uncertainty that exists.

1035
00:43:38,431 --> 00:43:41,308
-Hoback: But,
Satoshi didn't do this.
-(whooshing)

1036
00:43:41,392 --> 00:43:44,729
Meaning they very well
might still have access.

1037
00:43:46,022 --> 00:43:48,065
If they kept that stuff,
there'd be a lot of temptation

1038
00:43:48,107 --> 00:43:49,275
to spend some of it.

1039
00:43:49,775 --> 00:43:51,277
Hoback:
So, Satoshi had to weigh
the temptation

1040
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,571
of becoming
the richest person on Earth

1041
00:43:53,654 --> 00:43:55,031
against the possibility

1042
00:43:55,114 --> 00:43:57,324
that it would
derail their invention.

1043
00:43:59,910 --> 00:44:02,830
Do you think it'll ever
be known who Satoshi is?

1044
00:44:02,913 --> 00:44:04,206
Back:
I don't think so, no.

1045
00:44:04,248 --> 00:44:05,958
I mean, just-just because
all of the people

1046
00:44:06,042 --> 00:44:08,878
that have been identified

1047
00:44:08,961 --> 00:44:11,255
have various reasons,
believable reasons,

1048
00:44:11,297 --> 00:44:12,965
why it's probably not them.

1049
00:44:13,049 --> 00:44:14,467
And you know
what the list is, right?

1050
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:17,386
-It's been circulated
a million times.
-Right. Right.

1051
00:44:18,554 --> 00:44:20,306
Hoback:
Wei Dai is on the list.

1052
00:44:20,765 --> 00:44:24,310
Um, Nick Szabo is on the list.
Hal Finney.

1053
00:44:24,393 --> 00:44:26,062
You're on the list.
And then,

1054
00:44:26,145 --> 00:44:29,440
maybe mysterious...
mysterious other person.

1055
00:44:29,482 --> 00:44:31,984
-Right.
-Um...

1056
00:44:32,943 --> 00:44:34,779
Well, I thought
you might think I'm Satoshi,

1057
00:44:34,820 --> 00:44:37,615
and I don't want that
to be on the record, really.

1058
00:44:37,698 --> 00:44:39,158
(both laugh)

1059
00:44:39,241 --> 00:44:41,619
-I mean, you're on
the list of suspects, right?
-Yeah, yeah,

1060
00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:42,953
but, uh, you know,

1061
00:44:43,037 --> 00:44:44,955
I was interested for you,
personally, to understand

1062
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:48,292
that really-really,
I'm not, you know? Yeah.

1063
00:44:50,836 --> 00:44:52,963
-(breeze blowing)
-(birds chirping)

1064
00:44:53,047 --> 00:44:55,132
Hoback:
It seemed to me that,
at a minimum,

1065
00:44:55,216 --> 00:44:57,968
Adam was more involved
than he was letting on.

1066
00:44:58,010 --> 00:45:01,263
(intriguing music playing)

1067
00:45:03,349 --> 00:45:06,102
Meanwhile, Blockstream's
Bitcoin ambassador

1068
00:45:06,185 --> 00:45:09,230
was trying to make Bitcoin
the new global standard.

1069
00:45:09,313 --> 00:45:11,816
Mow:
This is a pivotal
time with Bitcoin,

1070
00:45:11,857 --> 00:45:13,275
and we have to push
the advantage we have now.

1071
00:45:13,317 --> 00:45:16,696
I have an in in Korea,
but if you wanna do Vietnam...

1072
00:45:16,779 --> 00:45:17,863
Michelle Phan:
Wow... Yeah!

1073
00:45:18,072 --> 00:45:20,157
-Fist bump... I'm down.
-Are you down? Okay!

1074
00:45:20,241 --> 00:45:21,200
Alright, I'm down, too.

1075
00:45:21,450 --> 00:45:23,744
Hoback:
Samson's young new ally
just happened to be

1076
00:45:23,828 --> 00:45:26,163
one of YouTube's
biggest beauty influencers.

1077
00:45:26,205 --> 00:45:29,166
Now, she was advising
on more than just makeup.

1078
00:45:29,250 --> 00:45:31,752
With Bitcoin,
you can buy it in smaller units.

1079
00:45:31,836 --> 00:45:35,756
There's 100 million satoshis
in one bitcoin.

1080
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,800
Nothing ever infinitely goes up,

1081
00:45:37,842 --> 00:45:38,968
but Bitcoin will.

1082
00:45:39,218 --> 00:45:40,970
I feel like California
should become its own country

1083
00:45:41,053 --> 00:45:42,596
and adopt Bitcoin.
In my humble opinion.

1084
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,349
It's like, what, the fourth
largest GDP right, in the world?

1085
00:45:45,391 --> 00:45:46,392
Yeah.

1086
00:45:46,475 --> 00:45:48,352
Hoback:
They were headed
to a political function

1087
00:45:48,394 --> 00:45:49,395
for Andrew Yang...

1088
00:45:49,478 --> 00:45:50,604
Andrew Yang:
I'm Andrew Yang,

1089
00:45:50,688 --> 00:45:53,482
and I'm running for president
as a Democrat in 2020.

1090
00:45:53,858 --> 00:45:56,736
Hoback:
...who kinda brought the idea
of universal basic income

1091
00:45:56,819 --> 00:45:58,320
into the mainstream.

1092
00:45:58,404 --> 00:46:01,532
-So, we gotta talk to Andrew
about UBI. Your UBI!
-Yeah.

1093
00:46:01,615 --> 00:46:04,535
Yes,
the universal Bitcoin income.

1094
00:46:04,618 --> 00:46:07,038
Not universal basic income.
We don't want basic shit.

1095
00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:08,539
-We want Bitcoin.
-Yeah, we're not basic.

1096
00:46:08,581 --> 00:46:10,249
Thank you. Okay, here we are.

1097
00:46:10,332 --> 00:46:12,877
Hoback:
So, these two,
they're what's known as

1098
00:46:12,918 --> 00:46:15,963
Bitcoin maximalists,
or Maxi for short.

1099
00:46:16,047 --> 00:46:18,299
I'm a proud
Bitcoin Maxi now.

1100
00:46:18,382 --> 00:46:19,425
I'm toxic as fuck.

1101
00:46:19,508 --> 00:46:21,385
-(thunder cracks)
-Hoback: Does their profile pic

1102
00:46:21,469 --> 00:46:23,471
have lasers
coming out of their eyes?

1103
00:46:23,554 --> 00:46:24,805
Usually means they're a Maxi.

1104
00:46:24,889 --> 00:46:27,558
It was a system
of monetary belief.

1105
00:46:27,641 --> 00:46:29,310
Welcome to the new religion.

1106
00:46:29,393 --> 00:46:32,855
Hoback:
Faith that Bitcoin could fix
all the problems in the world.

1107
00:46:32,938 --> 00:46:34,231
Bitcoin fixes everything!

1108
00:46:34,315 --> 00:46:36,776
Hoback:
And that the US dollar
was on its way out.

1109
00:46:36,859 --> 00:46:38,277
Okay, here's a $10 bill.

1110
00:46:38,361 --> 00:46:41,072
-This is garbage.
This is garbage.
-(ripping)

1111
00:46:41,155 --> 00:46:43,532
Hoback:
Which could be
pretty fucking annoying.

1112
00:46:43,574 --> 00:46:47,161
But, ultimately, their goal
was to orange pill the world.

1113
00:46:47,244 --> 00:46:49,622
Phan: We're gonna try
and orange pill him.

1114
00:46:49,705 --> 00:46:51,248
Yang:
Oh my gosh! Hey, Michelle!

1115
00:46:51,332 --> 00:46:54,085
We have a real life
Asian-American supermodel
and activist.

1116
00:46:54,126 --> 00:46:56,629
Hoback:
Their tactics could
be pretty shameless.

1117
00:46:56,712 --> 00:46:58,506
-Andrew,
nice to meet you.
-Oh, nice to meet you, too.

1118
00:46:58,589 --> 00:47:00,383
This guy's changing the world.
I want you to meet him.

1119
00:47:00,424 --> 00:47:02,093
I think he's really important
for you to talk to.

1120
00:47:02,176 --> 00:47:03,719
Oh, no, I'm super pumped
about this. See this magic?

1121
00:47:03,761 --> 00:47:07,056
You see this magic in real time?
You wanna say a couple words?

1122
00:47:07,139 --> 00:47:10,851
Bitcoin is the most
important crypto out there.

1123
00:47:12,269 --> 00:47:13,896
Yang: Holy cow!

1124
00:47:31,414 --> 00:47:33,958
-Let's talk, uh, more deeply.
-Mow: Yeah!

1125
00:47:33,999 --> 00:47:36,502
What's your info? What's
the best way to be in touch?

1126
00:47:36,585 --> 00:47:40,214
Many of these utopian movements
start by a bunch of idealists.

1127
00:47:40,297 --> 00:47:42,883
But then, they're captured
by a bunch of greedy people,

1128
00:47:42,967 --> 00:47:44,301
they become a cult,

1129
00:47:44,343 --> 00:47:46,721
and the people and the system
becomes like a religion.

1130
00:47:46,804 --> 00:47:47,930
They become fanatic.

1131
00:47:48,013 --> 00:47:49,932
And then, all these utopias,
in due time,

1132
00:47:50,015 --> 00:47:52,893
they just disappear
in the dustbin of history.

1133
00:47:52,977 --> 00:47:54,854
And that's what's
gonna happen with crypto.

1134
00:47:54,937 --> 00:47:56,022
♪♪

1135
00:47:56,188 --> 00:47:58,983
Hoback:
Samson thought he could use
his own right hand.

1136
00:47:59,025 --> 00:48:00,651
Someone with connections.

1137
00:48:01,193 --> 00:48:03,821
Enter the Prince of Serbia.

1138
00:48:04,363 --> 00:48:06,115
Prince Philip:
2020, that's when
it really clicked.

1139
00:48:06,198 --> 00:48:09,201
There are synergies
between Bitcoin and monarchies.

1140
00:48:09,285 --> 00:48:11,078
-I'm a Maxi now.
-(laughter, indistinct chatter)

1141
00:48:11,162 --> 00:48:12,663
That's my great-grandfather.

1142
00:48:12,705 --> 00:48:14,206
This is my great-
great-grandfather.

1143
00:48:14,290 --> 00:48:17,001
Hoback:
I see. When do you get
your painting in here?

1144
00:48:17,043 --> 00:48:18,836
-Who knows?
-(laughter)

1145
00:48:18,878 --> 00:48:20,254
He has the perfect skill set

1146
00:48:20,337 --> 00:48:23,841
to contact, uh,
diplomats, presidents.

1147
00:48:23,924 --> 00:48:25,593
There's a lot of
big family network

1148
00:48:25,676 --> 00:48:28,137
to-to-to work through.
That opens a lot of doors.

1149
00:48:28,179 --> 00:48:29,680
Hoback:
Not that long ago,

1150
00:48:29,722 --> 00:48:32,767
Montenegro and Serbia used
to be part of the same country.

1151
00:48:32,850 --> 00:48:36,020
And Prince Philip's family
still had a lot of influence.

1152
00:48:36,062 --> 00:48:37,980
Prince Philip:
Prime Minister Spaji.

1153
00:48:38,022 --> 00:48:40,149
In terms of where he's at
with Bitcoin,

1154
00:48:40,191 --> 00:48:42,026
could be the start of
a good relationship with him

1155
00:48:42,109 --> 00:48:44,111
to get things moving
in this country.

1156
00:48:45,321 --> 00:48:48,074
I'm a big fan of Bitcoin,
obviously,

1157
00:48:48,157 --> 00:48:50,868
and of the technology
that Bitcoin brought.

1158
00:48:50,951 --> 00:48:53,037
Politically,
it's, it's a difficult sell.

1159
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,039
You have to think about
all kinds of risks.

1160
00:48:55,122 --> 00:48:58,209
I think the government
shouldn't invest in Bitcoin.

1161
00:48:58,292 --> 00:48:59,919
If you're risk-averse,
you think the government

1162
00:49:00,002 --> 00:49:01,587
should not hold it.
That's fine.

1163
00:49:01,670 --> 00:49:04,757
But, in the event
that fiat currencies collapse,

1164
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,301
everyone will rush into Bitcoin.
So, what we're trying to do

1165
00:49:07,385 --> 00:49:09,261
is get parallel systems
in place.

1166
00:49:09,345 --> 00:49:12,056
Dollars, Bitcoin, pesos,
Bitcoin, yen, Bitcoin.

1167
00:49:12,139 --> 00:49:13,682
We don't have our own currency.

1168
00:49:13,724 --> 00:49:17,561
We're using euros without
being able to print euros.

1169
00:49:17,645 --> 00:49:20,064
And that's not fair.
You know, that's not cool.

1170
00:49:20,106 --> 00:49:22,233
Maybe something to consider

1171
00:49:22,274 --> 00:49:24,902
is adopting Bitcoin
as simply money.

1172
00:49:24,944 --> 00:49:26,487
You don't need to tax anybody.

1173
00:49:26,570 --> 00:49:28,280
-You can just mine Bitcoin...
-Prince Philip: Yes.

1174
00:49:28,364 --> 00:49:29,865
...and that will
fund everything.

1175
00:49:29,949 --> 00:49:32,451
The electricity
is relatively cheap.

1176
00:49:32,535 --> 00:49:34,078
It's usually
the smaller countries

1177
00:49:34,161 --> 00:49:37,498
that are more agile
and willing to embrace change

1178
00:49:37,581 --> 00:49:39,792
'cause they're looking
for some advantage.

1179
00:49:40,626 --> 00:49:41,919
I think it's a good idea.

1180
00:49:42,002 --> 00:49:44,797
You can really be a beacon
in Europe right now.

1181
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,091
Concretely, how do we do this?

1182
00:49:47,174 --> 00:49:50,094
Mow: We had a really good talk
about Bitcoin adoption

1183
00:49:50,177 --> 00:49:53,639
and what they can do.
And they also, like Costa Rica,

1184
00:49:53,723 --> 00:49:55,391
have a lot of hydropower,

1185
00:49:55,433 --> 00:49:59,270
-so we're making progress
everywhere.
-(breaking up phone reply)

1186
00:49:59,311 --> 00:50:02,314
Hoback:
How did something with such
anarchistic roots

1187
00:50:02,398 --> 00:50:05,443
end up being
mined by countries?

1188
00:50:05,526 --> 00:50:08,696
narrator 1:
It all started in 1849.

1189
00:50:08,779 --> 00:50:10,698
There was gold in California.

1190
00:50:10,781 --> 00:50:11,782
Hoback:
In the beginning,

1191
00:50:11,866 --> 00:50:13,367
if you wanted to do
Bitcoin mining,

1192
00:50:13,451 --> 00:50:14,952
your home computer
was good enough.

1193
00:50:15,036 --> 00:50:16,746
Which is how Satoshi racked up

1194
00:50:16,787 --> 00:50:20,207
-what appears to be
over a million Bitcoin.
-(swirling)

1195
00:50:20,291 --> 00:50:21,959
But, once Bitcoin had value...

1196
00:50:22,043 --> 00:50:23,252
narrator 1:
Within a short time,

1197
00:50:23,419 --> 00:50:26,505
all had caught the fever
that only gold would quench.

1198
00:50:26,589 --> 00:50:28,215
Hoback:
...people created
specialized mining rigs

1199
00:50:28,299 --> 00:50:29,467
to increase
their chances of winning.

1200
00:50:29,550 --> 00:50:31,552
narrator 1:
Which made the job move faster.

1201
00:50:31,635 --> 00:50:33,471
Hoback:
The more people who compete,
the harder it gets.

1202
00:50:33,512 --> 00:50:35,431
narrator 1:
As the gold became
more difficult to find...

1203
00:50:35,514 --> 00:50:38,309
Hoback:
Mining industrialized,
becoming an arms race.

1204
00:50:38,350 --> 00:50:40,770
narrator 2:
It was buckets,
after buckets, after buckets.

1205
00:50:40,811 --> 00:50:43,856
Hoback:
Looking for the cheapest
energy, the fastest miners,

1206
00:50:43,939 --> 00:50:45,316
in search of
the next golden ticket.

1207
00:50:45,399 --> 00:50:48,611
reporter:
Bitcoin mines generated
about $70,000 a day.

1208
00:50:48,652 --> 00:50:50,738
Hoback:
And if you can't keep up,
it stops being profitable.

1209
00:50:50,821 --> 00:50:53,324
narrator 1:
As the gold gave out,
people moved away.

1210
00:50:53,366 --> 00:50:54,825
Hoback:
Until most of the players
left in the game

1211
00:50:54,909 --> 00:50:57,995
are basically billionaires
who own their own power plants,

1212
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:00,873
or countries
who own the power grid.

1213
00:51:00,956 --> 00:51:02,041
It's the grand unveiling.

1214
00:51:02,124 --> 00:51:04,335
I think there's
a couple hundred in here.

1215
00:51:04,418 --> 00:51:05,544
It's a 40-foot container.

1216
00:51:05,711 --> 00:51:09,298
Hoback:
Requiring about
0.5% of all the energy.

1217
00:51:09,340 --> 00:51:12,927
And it requires increasing
amounts of energy consumption

1218
00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:14,887
as more miners compete.

1219
00:51:14,970 --> 00:51:17,515
Hoback:
And while you might think
that's pretty terrible...

1220
00:51:17,556 --> 00:51:19,600
-(fire crackling)
-...compounding
a climate catastrophe,

1221
00:51:19,683 --> 00:51:22,228
if you've ever heard
of petrodollars,

1222
00:51:22,311 --> 00:51:23,854
that's because Nixon
ditched the gold standard

1223
00:51:23,896 --> 00:51:26,691
and intertwined the US dollar
with the oil trade.

1224
00:51:26,732 --> 00:51:28,526
The effect of this action,
in other words,

1225
00:51:28,567 --> 00:51:31,529
will be to stabilize
the dollar.

1226
00:51:31,570 --> 00:51:33,447
Hoback:
Which helped solidify
the dollar's status

1227
00:51:33,531 --> 00:51:35,366
as the global reserve currency,

1228
00:51:35,408 --> 00:51:38,035
but kinda kept us
dependent on oil.

1229
00:51:38,077 --> 00:51:39,745
So, maybe it's just
the nature of money

1230
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:42,331
that it's based on things
that people value.

1231
00:51:42,373 --> 00:51:45,251
Which is to say, a currency
derived from electricity

1232
00:51:45,334 --> 00:51:47,378
might pose a real threat
to the dollar

1233
00:51:47,461 --> 00:51:49,255
if it gained in popularity.

1234
00:51:49,338 --> 00:51:51,590
Assuming it actually worked.

1235
00:51:54,093 --> 00:51:55,886
♪♪

1236
00:51:55,970 --> 00:51:59,557
You see, Bitcoin's original
design had a fatal flaw.

1237
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,600
reporter 1:
Well, computer giant Dell
announcing today

1238
00:52:01,684 --> 00:52:04,311
-it will accept Bitcoin.
-reporter 2: Sacramento Kings
to accept Bitcoin.

1239
00:52:04,395 --> 00:52:07,356
Overstock is now
accepting Bitcoin.

1240
00:52:07,398 --> 00:52:09,191
Hoback:
If too many people
started using Bitcoin,

1241
00:52:09,233 --> 00:52:11,152
it would stop working.

1242
00:52:12,111 --> 00:52:13,571
And that's because those blocks

1243
00:52:13,654 --> 00:52:16,115
that make up Bitcoin's
record keeping system,

1244
00:52:16,824 --> 00:52:19,660
-they just can't hold
very much information.
-(whooshing)

1245
00:52:19,744 --> 00:52:21,370
They're small.
And you have to wait

1246
00:52:21,412 --> 00:52:23,330
10 minutes before
another block forms.

1247
00:52:24,331 --> 00:52:26,083
So, when Bitcoin got popular,

1248
00:52:26,125 --> 00:52:27,460
your transaction would be stuck

1249
00:52:27,543 --> 00:52:30,379
in line for hours,
sometimes days.

1250
00:52:30,421 --> 00:52:32,882
And since money needs
to work immediately,

1251
00:52:32,965 --> 00:52:34,717
this was a disaster.

1252
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,552
Transaction times
are incredibly high.

1253
00:52:36,594 --> 00:52:38,596
There's a lot of people
questioning long-term
sustainability.

1254
00:52:38,679 --> 00:52:41,307
Stripe is getting out
of the Bitcoin business.

1255
00:52:41,390 --> 00:52:43,601
Hoback:
So Gavin, who was still kind of

1256
00:52:43,684 --> 00:52:45,269
steering the Bitcoin ship,
announced...

1257
00:52:45,352 --> 00:52:47,355
We'll definitely
need to increase

1258
00:52:47,438 --> 00:52:48,814
the maximum block size.

1259
00:52:48,898 --> 00:52:52,109
-Hoback: In other words,
make each block bigger.
-(whirs)

1260
00:52:52,193 --> 00:52:54,445
More room for all
the transactions.

1261
00:52:54,487 --> 00:52:56,113
But, not everyone agreed.

1262
00:52:56,155 --> 00:52:57,698
This is obviously a bad idea.

1263
00:52:57,782 --> 00:52:58,824
Oh, this is all bullshit.

1264
00:52:58,908 --> 00:53:01,243
These guys are bringing
about the doom of Bitcoin.

1265
00:53:01,827 --> 00:53:05,456
Hoback:
A disagreement which resulted
in a massive nerd fight,

1266
00:53:06,248 --> 00:53:09,752
known as the Blocksize War.

1267
00:53:09,835 --> 00:53:12,797
So, why were they being
so apocalyptic

1268
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,633
about just adding more space
to each Bitcoin block?

1269
00:53:15,716 --> 00:53:17,802
The nerds had
some good reasons.

1270
00:53:17,885 --> 00:53:20,054
For instance,
if you could change something

1271
00:53:20,137 --> 00:53:22,139
as fundamental
as the block size,

1272
00:53:22,181 --> 00:53:24,809
could you also change
the total supply

1273
00:53:24,892 --> 00:53:27,144
from 21 million to 100?

1274
00:53:27,186 --> 00:53:30,773
People might lose their faith
in what makes Bitcoin Bitcoin.

1275
00:53:30,856 --> 00:53:32,775
Although, to make
a change like this,

1276
00:53:32,817 --> 00:53:35,361
you have to get pretty much
everyone on board.

1277
00:53:35,444 --> 00:53:38,280
-Otherwise,
the community will split.
-(horn blaring)

1278
00:53:38,322 --> 00:53:39,907
So, instead of
changing Bitcoin,

1279
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:43,452
the Small Blockers had
a complex technical solution,

1280
00:53:43,494 --> 00:53:45,579
but it would take years.
Meanwhile,

1281
00:53:45,663 --> 00:53:48,082
the Big Blockers wanted
Bitcoin to work now,

1282
00:53:48,165 --> 00:53:49,667
not in some theoretical future.

1283
00:53:49,709 --> 00:53:52,378
Ver:
Governments move slowly.
We need to move quickly

1284
00:53:52,461 --> 00:53:53,796
and make this cash
for the entire world

1285
00:53:53,838 --> 00:53:55,589
before the politicians
even know what happened

1286
00:53:55,673 --> 00:53:57,675
and they have time to react
via bigger blocks.

1287
00:53:57,717 --> 00:54:00,678
Hoback:
The fight became vicious,
with each side

1288
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:03,264
accusing the other of
trying to destroy Bitcoin.

1289
00:54:03,347 --> 00:54:06,308
Ver:
I'm not exaggerating, this
is a life and death matter.

1290
00:54:06,392 --> 00:54:09,854
More babies are dying
in countries around the world

1291
00:54:09,895 --> 00:54:12,273
because they have
less economic freedom.

1292
00:54:12,356 --> 00:54:14,025
Mow:
He's not Bitcoin Jesus.

1293
00:54:14,066 --> 00:54:15,568
He's Bitcoin Judas.

1294
00:54:15,651 --> 00:54:16,861
(buzzer blares)

1295
00:54:16,944 --> 00:54:18,696
He's the one that's
trying to kill Bitcoin.

1296
00:54:18,779 --> 00:54:20,364
Hoback:
With Bitcoin
essentially divided

1297
00:54:20,448 --> 00:54:22,324
between the church
of small blocks

1298
00:54:22,366 --> 00:54:23,743
and the church
and big blocks,

1299
00:54:23,826 --> 00:54:24,702
you might be wondering

1300
00:54:24,785 --> 00:54:26,328
where did Satoshi
fall in all of this?

1301
00:54:26,370 --> 00:54:28,289
I think Satoshi
handed the keys off to Gavin

1302
00:54:28,372 --> 00:54:30,541
because he viewed Gavin
as a responsible steward

1303
00:54:30,624 --> 00:54:32,376
of the future
of the project.

1304
00:54:32,418 --> 00:54:33,961
But, that doesn't mean
you're the leader.

1305
00:54:34,045 --> 00:54:36,130
That just means you're the guy
who answers questions.

1306
00:54:36,213 --> 00:54:38,174
Hoback:
Well, it seemed Satoshi

1307
00:54:38,257 --> 00:54:40,843
was about to make
their views known.

1308
00:54:41,594 --> 00:54:42,803
After years of silence,

1309
00:54:42,887 --> 00:54:45,723
Satoshi sends an email out
to the mailing list

1310
00:54:47,058 --> 00:54:49,435
to share their concerns.

1311
00:54:49,685 --> 00:54:52,938
It's from the same address
Satoshi used back in 2008.

1312
00:54:53,689 --> 00:54:56,150
The one to distribute
the white paper.

1313
00:54:56,233 --> 00:54:58,277
His words were clear, harsh...

1314
00:54:58,652 --> 00:55:01,072
and firmly against
Roger, Gavin,

1315
00:55:01,113 --> 00:55:02,656
and the big corporations.

1316
00:55:02,740 --> 00:55:05,159
There's a debate
around whether or not

1317
00:55:05,242 --> 00:55:07,578
that was, like, legitimate.

1318
00:55:07,620 --> 00:55:10,790
But, whoever had access
to Satoshi's email

1319
00:55:10,873 --> 00:55:13,459
was somewhat aligned
with Blockstream,

1320
00:55:13,542 --> 00:55:15,961
with their angle
on the scaling debate.

1321
00:55:16,045 --> 00:55:18,589
Hoback:
While some question
the email's authenticity,

1322
00:55:18,672 --> 00:55:22,426
it placed Satoshi squarely
on Blockstream's side.

1323
00:55:23,552 --> 00:55:25,679
-(curious music playing)
-(blade slicing)

1324
00:55:25,763 --> 00:55:28,974
And then, as if sent
from digital heaven,

1325
00:55:29,392 --> 00:55:31,352
Satoshi appeared
in the flesh.

1326
00:55:31,435 --> 00:55:33,646
He was apparently
an Australian fellow...

1327
00:55:35,189 --> 00:55:37,817
named Craig Wright.

1328
00:55:37,900 --> 00:55:41,946
So, you're gonna show me
that Satoshi Nakamoto is you?

1329
00:55:41,987 --> 00:55:43,823
♪♪

1330
00:55:43,906 --> 00:55:45,032
Yes.

1331
00:55:45,116 --> 00:55:47,034
I do think Craig is Satoshi.

1332
00:55:47,118 --> 00:55:48,369
I met with him in London.

1333
00:55:48,452 --> 00:55:51,497
Uh, he fits the kind of person

1334
00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:55,167
that I was interacting
with way back in 2010,

1335
00:55:55,251 --> 00:55:59,338
and he provided
some cryptographic proof.

1336
00:55:59,422 --> 00:56:01,424
Hoback:
Miraculously, this Satoshi

1337
00:56:01,507 --> 00:56:03,592
was on Gavin and Roger's side.

1338
00:56:04,009 --> 00:56:05,636
At first, it seemed
wonderful because, oh,

1339
00:56:05,678 --> 00:56:07,430
Satoshi's back,
and he's a Big Blocker.

1340
00:56:07,513 --> 00:56:09,306
Raise the block size.

1341
00:56:09,348 --> 00:56:11,392
Very quickly, people figured out

1342
00:56:11,475 --> 00:56:13,060
this is obviously bullshit.

1343
00:56:13,144 --> 00:56:15,438
Hoback:
It seems like
he'd fake the evidence

1344
00:56:15,521 --> 00:56:18,149
by backdating
his cryptographic proof.

1345
00:56:18,190 --> 00:56:19,984
Craig Wright is
incredibly convincing.

1346
00:56:20,067 --> 00:56:22,570
For me, he's proved it

1347
00:56:22,653 --> 00:56:23,821
beyond a reasonable doubt.

1348
00:56:23,863 --> 00:56:25,531
But, if you dig
deep enough, long enough,

1349
00:56:25,614 --> 00:56:27,491
the inconsistencies will emerge.

1350
00:56:27,575 --> 00:56:30,786
Yeah, I-I have to be careful
about talking about that topic

1351
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:33,372
because he, uh, sued me
at some point.

1352
00:56:33,456 --> 00:56:34,790
-Hoback: Who did?
-Craig.

1353
00:56:34,874 --> 00:56:36,083
-He sued--
-Hoback: For what?

1354
00:56:36,167 --> 00:56:37,585
For libel.
He sued a lot of people.

1355
00:56:37,668 --> 00:56:39,879
Hoback:
(laughs) Well, that's
something to look forward to.

1356
00:56:39,962 --> 00:56:43,466
(slow music playing)

1357
00:56:43,507 --> 00:56:46,135
To me, Craig Wright was
the death blow in the war.

1358
00:56:47,386 --> 00:56:50,806
"Death blow" is a strong word,
but something close to that.

1359
00:56:52,475 --> 00:56:54,101
Thanks, Craig. (scoffs)

1360
00:56:55,227 --> 00:56:56,520
Todd:
We got lucky.

1361
00:56:56,562 --> 00:56:58,230
The Blocksize War
went the right way.

1362
00:56:58,314 --> 00:57:00,399
Hoback:
The Blocksize War was over,

1363
00:57:00,483 --> 00:57:02,401
and the Small Blockers had won.

1364
00:57:03,110 --> 00:57:06,238
-(laughs) The victor
writes history.
-Mow: (laughs) Yeah.

1365
00:57:06,322 --> 00:57:08,699
O'Leary:
They established themselves as

1366
00:57:08,741 --> 00:57:10,743
the ideological
authority on Bitcoin.

1367
00:57:11,118 --> 00:57:14,580
Hoback:
But, had Satoshi
simply regained control?

1368
00:57:16,582 --> 00:57:18,626
It took the Small Blockers
almost a decade

1369
00:57:18,709 --> 00:57:20,211
to make their plan work.

1370
00:57:20,294 --> 00:57:21,921
None of that Starbucks bullshit!

1371
00:57:22,004 --> 00:57:24,715
Hoback:
You could buy
coffee with Bitcoin,

1372
00:57:24,757 --> 00:57:27,259
which is why countries
were now able to adopt it.

1373
00:57:27,343 --> 00:57:30,971
But, it required the support
of companies like Blockstream.

1374
00:57:31,055 --> 00:57:33,766
-Cheers. You're not
supposed to cheers coffee.
-(cups clink)

1375
00:57:33,849 --> 00:57:35,559
Hoback:
And these companies
would take a small cut

1376
00:57:35,601 --> 00:57:38,729
out of every transaction.
Meaning it ain't...

1377
00:57:38,771 --> 00:57:41,023
Back:
Permissionless electronic cash
for the internet.

1378
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,277
Hoback:
Which fueled theories that
they had ulterior motives.

1379
00:57:45,695 --> 00:57:47,238
It's been delayed by
at least a decade, if not more,

1380
00:57:47,321 --> 00:57:49,699
because of this, uh, block size
limit that was imposed,

1381
00:57:49,740 --> 00:57:53,077
and probably covert government
agents helping it along.

1382
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,580
-Hoback: Yeah, so I guess
we'll just go--
-Peter Todd. (laughs)

1383
00:57:56,664 --> 00:57:57,748
Sorry, what was that?

1384
00:57:57,790 --> 00:57:59,709
I said Peter Todd,
for one. (laughs)

1385
00:58:00,459 --> 00:58:04,422
Hoback:
Wait. Roger thought Peter Todd
was working for the government?

1386
00:58:04,505 --> 00:58:05,715
(tense music playing)

1387
00:58:05,756 --> 00:58:07,800
Hoback:
What-What indication
did you have

1388
00:58:07,883 --> 00:58:09,468
that he was,

1389
00:58:09,552 --> 00:58:11,929
perhaps, collaborating
with the government?

1390
00:58:12,012 --> 00:58:14,056
The things he was advocating
that should happen with Bitcoin

1391
00:58:14,098 --> 00:58:16,434
were counterproductive
to Bitcoin being usable

1392
00:58:16,475 --> 00:58:17,977
as cash and usable as money.

1393
00:58:18,060 --> 00:58:19,311
(typing)

1394
00:58:19,395 --> 00:58:20,604
Hoback:
Prior to 2013,

1395
00:58:20,646 --> 00:58:22,523
pretty much all of
Peter Todd's history

1396
00:58:22,606 --> 00:58:24,650
appears to be wiped
from the internet.

1397
00:58:25,776 --> 00:58:27,862
I finally found
his personal website.

1398
00:58:27,945 --> 00:58:29,613
2001...

1399
00:58:29,655 --> 00:58:30,948
Where, in high school,

1400
00:58:30,990 --> 00:58:33,451
when he was communicating
with the cypherpunks,

1401
00:58:33,534 --> 00:58:34,952
he joked that in the event

1402
00:58:34,994 --> 00:58:37,621
he becomes an evil dictator
who takes over the world,

1403
00:58:37,663 --> 00:58:39,915
he was screwed up
from childhood.

1404
00:58:40,374 --> 00:58:42,710
His father was an economist,

1405
00:58:42,793 --> 00:58:44,962
and his mother taught him
about encryption.

1406
00:58:45,004 --> 00:58:47,965
And while Peter Todd
might have worked for...

1407
00:58:48,007 --> 00:58:49,800
A company manufacturing
gyroscopes

1408
00:58:49,884 --> 00:58:52,178
for drones in the military.

1409
00:58:52,261 --> 00:58:56,057
Hoback:
...being in the CIA obviously
wasn't on his resume.

1410
00:58:56,140 --> 00:58:59,602
Or whatever the fuck Canada's
intelligence agency's called.

1411
00:58:59,643 --> 00:59:01,604
But, Roger brought up
something suspicious.

1412
00:59:01,687 --> 00:59:04,315
Later, somebody leaked
this email exchange from him,

1413
00:59:04,357 --> 00:59:05,483
and that guy openly claimed

1414
00:59:05,566 --> 00:59:07,234
that he was working
for the US government.

1415
00:59:07,318 --> 00:59:09,028
Anybody who looks on Google

1416
00:59:09,111 --> 00:59:12,323
and searches,
"Peter Todd leaked emails"
will see...

1417
00:59:12,406 --> 00:59:15,743
Hoback: Back in 2013,
there was this email thread

1418
00:59:15,826 --> 00:59:17,870
that had been leaked
between Peter Todd

1419
00:59:17,953 --> 00:59:20,706
and a guy who called
himself John Dillon.

1420
00:59:20,790 --> 00:59:22,249
Taaki:
And in the emails,

1421
00:59:22,333 --> 00:59:25,419
Peter Todd was conspiring
with this other guy

1422
00:59:25,503 --> 00:59:29,048
who was affiliated
with state actors.

1423
00:59:29,131 --> 00:59:31,050
Hoback:
With John Dillon claiming,

1424
00:59:31,133 --> 00:59:33,010
"My day job
involves intelligence,

1425
00:59:33,052 --> 00:59:35,971
and I'm in a relatively
high position."

1426
00:59:36,055 --> 00:59:39,183
Maybe Amir just wasn't
aware of this at the time.

1427
00:59:40,017 --> 00:59:41,811
If it looks like something's
coming into existence

1428
00:59:41,852 --> 00:59:44,689
that could replace the US dollar
as the world's reserve currency,

1429
00:59:44,772 --> 00:59:46,899
the US government and
its three-letter agencies

1430
00:59:46,982 --> 00:59:49,902
absolutely, without any doubt,
will do whatever they can,

1431
00:59:49,985 --> 00:59:52,571
including secretly and covertly
disrupting projects

1432
00:59:52,655 --> 00:59:53,739
like Bitcoin.

1433
00:59:54,115 --> 00:59:56,784
Hoback:
If the government
wanted to undermine Bitcoin,

1434
00:59:56,867 --> 00:59:59,370
or try to get close to Satoshi,
how might they do it?

1435
00:59:59,453 --> 01:00:01,872
A guy that openly said
that he was working
for a three-letter agency

1436
01:00:01,914 --> 01:00:03,249
literally paid Peter Todd

1437
01:00:03,332 --> 01:00:05,918
to implement what's
called replace-by-fee.

1438
01:00:06,001 --> 01:00:09,922
Hoback:
John Dillon offered
a strangely small $500 reward

1439
01:00:10,005 --> 01:00:12,049
for anyone who could
design replace-by-fee.

1440
01:00:12,133 --> 01:00:14,760
It was essentially
a bidding service.

1441
01:00:14,844 --> 01:00:18,806
If you pay more, you can
send your Bitcoin faster.

1442
01:00:18,889 --> 01:00:20,808
Replace-by-fee was an attempt

1443
01:00:20,891 --> 01:00:23,769
to fix one of Bitcoin's
design problems.

1444
01:00:24,228 --> 01:00:26,731
Something that Satoshi
had speculated on

1445
01:00:26,814 --> 01:00:29,275
just before disappearing
from the forums.

1446
01:00:29,859 --> 01:00:32,611
And Satoshi knew it would be
a fair amount of work.

1447
01:00:32,695 --> 01:00:35,740
So, why would Peter Todd
do it for 500 bucks?

1448
01:00:36,198 --> 01:00:39,493
On the forums, John Dillon
publicly prodded Peter Todd to,

1449
01:00:39,577 --> 01:00:42,121
"Write some code for once."

1450
01:00:42,204 --> 01:00:44,707
And so, in 2013,

1451
01:00:44,749 --> 01:00:47,626
about three years after
Satoshi's disappearance,

1452
01:00:47,710 --> 01:00:50,337
Peter Todd solves
this design problem.

1453
01:00:50,421 --> 01:00:52,089
I played that little part,

1454
01:00:52,173 --> 01:00:54,175
creating this
replace-by-fee patch.

1455
01:00:54,258 --> 01:00:57,261
Hoback:
Which the Big Blockers
thought was a terrible idea

1456
01:00:57,303 --> 01:00:59,889
because it could result
in some really high fees

1457
01:00:59,972 --> 01:01:01,766
just to send some Bitcoin.

1458
01:01:02,183 --> 01:01:04,060
Ver:
Peter Todd, whether
he's a government agent,

1459
01:01:04,143 --> 01:01:06,228
he's absolutely
a super smart guy.

1460
01:01:06,270 --> 01:01:07,772
He's gotta be
the smartest guy in the room.

1461
01:01:07,855 --> 01:01:09,106
He always wants
to make sure he can prove

1462
01:01:09,190 --> 01:01:10,608
that he's the smartest guy
in the room.

1463
01:01:10,691 --> 01:01:13,069
So, is anyone
in this audience

1464
01:01:13,110 --> 01:01:14,779
working for government
right now?

1465
01:01:14,862 --> 01:01:16,113
(scattered laughter)

1466
01:01:16,155 --> 01:01:17,990
Because if you are,
I guess I'm one of the people

1467
01:01:18,074 --> 01:01:21,077
handling negotiation
with government.

1468
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:22,620
Hoback:
Even the email exchange

1469
01:01:22,661 --> 01:01:25,414
made Peter Todd
look pretty damn smart.

1470
01:01:25,498 --> 01:01:26,624
But after the leak,

1471
01:01:26,707 --> 01:01:28,793
John Dillon
disappeared for good.

1472
01:01:28,876 --> 01:01:31,170
As far as I know, Peter Todd
never denied any of that.

1473
01:01:31,253 --> 01:01:33,798
I think that's pretty much
accepted as fact at this point.

1474
01:01:33,881 --> 01:01:35,925
Hoback:
I found myself wondering

1475
01:01:35,966 --> 01:01:39,095
if maybe he did work for
the government in some way.

1476
01:01:39,178 --> 01:01:42,473
So, how close were you with
Blockstream back in the day?

1477
01:01:42,515 --> 01:01:43,474
-Todd: Me?
-Hoback: Yeah.

1478
01:01:43,557 --> 01:01:45,810
Uh, mostly,
I went to their office,

1479
01:01:45,893 --> 01:01:47,645
uh, drink all their Red Bull.

1480
01:01:47,686 --> 01:01:49,814
I'd go and
eat all their snacks.

1481
01:01:49,897 --> 01:01:51,565
Yeah, yeah. I mean,
they'd never pay me,

1482
01:01:51,649 --> 01:01:54,068
but I might as well get paid
in all other possible ways.

1483
01:01:54,527 --> 01:01:57,988
Hoback:
So, he was just
strategically close to Adam.

1484
01:01:58,072 --> 01:02:00,533
Well, Adam seems
to respect you a lot.

1485
01:02:01,826 --> 01:02:05,121
Meh, I mean I guess
I have reasonable ideas.

1486
01:02:05,162 --> 01:02:08,124
It's not that hard.
Adam respects plenty of people.

1487
01:02:08,207 --> 01:02:10,501
-I think he thinks of
you like a son.
-A son.

1488
01:02:10,584 --> 01:02:12,294
Yeah. I mean,
I first talked to him

1489
01:02:12,336 --> 01:02:15,256
-when I was, like, a teenager.
-(Mow laughs)

1490
01:02:15,339 --> 01:02:16,632
It's probably part of it.

1491
01:02:16,716 --> 01:02:17,967
♪♪

1492
01:02:18,050 --> 01:02:20,052
Hoback:
They've got a lot of
conspiracies about you.

1493
01:02:20,136 --> 01:02:21,345
Todd:
Well, they should.

1494
01:02:21,387 --> 01:02:23,931
Don't you know I, like,
worked for the CIA, NSA,

1495
01:02:24,014 --> 01:02:26,016
and also KGB at the same time?

1496
01:02:26,100 --> 01:02:29,186
Hoback:
Well, they like to point at that
email dump that happened.

1497
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:31,313
Oh, yeah, yeah,
the John Dillon bullshit.

1498
01:02:31,355 --> 01:02:33,691
-Hoback: Did you release that?
-I have no idea
who that guy is.

1499
01:02:33,774 --> 01:02:35,901
-Hoback: Really?
-I mean, you know, people go

1500
01:02:35,985 --> 01:02:37,361
and email you all the time,

1501
01:02:37,403 --> 01:02:40,364
like, telling you
all kinds of bullshit.

1502
01:02:40,406 --> 01:02:42,366
Hoback:
Looked like you were trying
to solve a lot of problems

1503
01:02:42,450 --> 01:02:44,702
-with him at the time, and, uh--
-No, I mean--

1504
01:02:44,744 --> 01:02:45,995
Hoback:
And there was, like, concerns

1505
01:02:46,078 --> 01:02:48,164
that, I guess that
John Dillon guy

1506
01:02:48,205 --> 01:02:50,207
was like under-- was like,
an agent or something and then--

1507
01:02:50,249 --> 01:02:52,251
The guy explicitly
claimed he was, uh,

1508
01:02:52,334 --> 01:02:54,712
you know, working for
the US government intelligence.

1509
01:02:54,795 --> 01:02:56,714
But, you know,
is that true or not?

1510
01:02:56,797 --> 01:02:58,591
Who the fuck knows? Like,

1511
01:02:58,966 --> 01:03:00,051
the problem with all this stuff

1512
01:03:00,092 --> 01:03:02,887
is people play all kinds
of crazy games.

1513
01:03:02,970 --> 01:03:04,096
Could be a 4chan troll.

1514
01:03:04,180 --> 01:03:05,848
Like, that's just
the reality of it.

1515
01:03:05,931 --> 01:03:06,891
You just don't know.

1516
01:03:06,932 --> 01:03:08,392
Hoback:
In that email chain,

1517
01:03:08,434 --> 01:03:11,270
there was one thing that
the John Dillon guy said,

1518
01:03:11,353 --> 01:03:12,521
where he was like,

1519
01:03:12,563 --> 01:03:15,149
"If the US government
wanted to fuck up Bitcoin,

1520
01:03:15,232 --> 01:03:18,319
-here's the strategy
that they might take."
-Todd: Well, yeah...

1521
01:03:18,402 --> 01:03:20,196
If you wanted
to go screw with Bitcoin,

1522
01:03:20,279 --> 01:03:23,074
one of the things you do is try
to convince the coding community

1523
01:03:23,157 --> 01:03:25,409
to go splinter up into, like,
five different efforts.

1524
01:03:25,493 --> 01:03:28,913
Hoback:
Which is what happened
after the Blocksize War.

1525
01:03:29,288 --> 01:03:32,249
Because if you couldn't
change Bitcoin,

1526
01:03:32,291 --> 01:03:35,878
why not just
make your own coin?

1527
01:03:36,420 --> 01:03:39,173
♪ Pump it up,
you've got to pump it up ♪

1528
01:03:39,256 --> 01:03:41,258
♪ Don't you know, pump it up ♪

1529
01:03:41,342 --> 01:03:43,177
♪ You've got to pump it up ♪

1530
01:03:43,260 --> 01:03:46,055
Hoback:
Soon, dozens, then hundreds,

1531
01:03:46,138 --> 01:03:48,849
then thousands of
alternate coins revved up,

1532
01:03:48,933 --> 01:03:50,101
each coin proclaiming to offer

1533
01:03:50,184 --> 01:03:52,269
something different
from Bitcoin.

1534
01:03:52,353 --> 01:03:55,439
You could even bank
while you wank.

1535
01:03:55,481 --> 01:03:57,775
newscaster:
It's unbelievable
how much this has taken off.

1536
01:03:57,817 --> 01:03:59,819
Hoback:
The crypto industry exploded.

1537
01:03:59,902 --> 01:04:04,115
-(elongated) Bitconne...ct!
-(crowd cheering)

1538
01:04:04,198 --> 01:04:05,741
Hoback:
Like the stock market,

1539
01:04:05,783 --> 01:04:07,660
you could bet
that these alt coins

1540
01:04:07,743 --> 01:04:09,453
would boom in value,
and many did,

1541
01:04:09,495 --> 01:04:13,040
with some coins 10-X-ing
or 100-X-ing in value.

1542
01:04:13,124 --> 01:04:14,959
Wall Street now
had competition.

1543
01:04:15,042 --> 01:04:17,586
You heard it here first!
Bitcoin is going to zero!

1544
01:04:17,628 --> 01:04:20,464
Hoback:
Virtually unregulated
competition.

1545
01:04:20,548 --> 01:04:22,550
Dogecoin to the moon!

1546
01:04:22,633 --> 01:04:24,135
(rapid beeping)

1547
01:04:24,176 --> 01:04:25,469
Hoback:
Which couldn't last.

1548
01:04:25,511 --> 01:04:28,639
(dramatic opera singing)

1549
01:04:32,852 --> 01:04:36,647
And now, the mark--
Oh! Ow! It went to zero!

1550
01:04:36,689 --> 01:04:38,816
Hoback:
By the end of the year,
the bubble burst louder

1551
01:04:38,858 --> 01:04:42,069
-than the stock market
did in the early 2000s.
-(screaming)

1552
01:04:42,153 --> 01:04:45,698
Bitcoin's value cut in half
from its all-time high,

1553
01:04:45,781 --> 01:04:47,533
with the crypto casino

1554
01:04:47,616 --> 01:04:51,120
just making the whole
industry seem stupid.

1555
01:04:51,203 --> 01:04:53,581
crypto investor:
It sucks. I mean, I've lost

1556
01:04:53,664 --> 01:04:55,416
over $100,000 right now.

1557
01:04:55,499 --> 01:04:58,127
Yo! The motherfucking coins
are dipping!

1558
01:04:58,169 --> 01:05:00,588
Why is the price falling so low?

1559
01:05:00,671 --> 01:05:02,631
I've never cried so much

1560
01:05:02,715 --> 01:05:05,217
in my grown-ass adult life.

1561
01:05:05,301 --> 01:05:07,511
It hurts. Um...

1562
01:05:08,637 --> 01:05:09,680
Yeah.

1563
01:05:09,847 --> 01:05:12,475
Nouriel Roubini:
These shitcoins,
they were outright scams

1564
01:05:12,558 --> 01:05:14,185
and frauds.
If there were real shitcoins,

1565
01:05:14,268 --> 01:05:17,855
you could use them as manure
to fertilize food.

1566
01:05:17,938 --> 01:05:20,858
I would rather buy shit,
literally shit,

1567
01:05:20,900 --> 01:05:23,361
that's worth something,
is a good fertilizer,

1568
01:05:23,444 --> 01:05:24,528
than buying shitcoins.

1569
01:05:24,820 --> 01:05:27,573
Hoback:
So, how could Bitcoin
separate itself from the pack?

1570
01:05:27,656 --> 01:05:29,116
choir:
♪ Hallelujah ♪

1571
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,452
The answer was
Bitcoin maximalism.

1572
01:05:31,535 --> 01:05:33,579
Bitcoin is perfect.
It's perfect money.

1573
01:05:33,662 --> 01:05:35,373
singer:
♪ Hallelujah ♪

1574
01:05:35,414 --> 01:05:36,957
Hoback:
It was salvation
from the shitcoins.

1575
01:05:37,041 --> 01:05:39,418
A gift from on high.

1576
01:05:39,502 --> 01:05:42,171
Bitcoin is what they call
the Immaculate Conception.

1577
01:05:42,213 --> 01:05:44,590
Hoback:
The cure to all
the world's problems.

1578
01:05:44,673 --> 01:05:47,927
This idea that Bitcoin
was born perfect, you know?

1579
01:05:48,010 --> 01:05:50,137
It just, like, emerged
from the mind of Satoshi,

1580
01:05:50,221 --> 01:05:52,640
almost like a gift
that was received from God,

1581
01:05:52,723 --> 01:05:55,851
and just, like,
perfectly articulated
into the white paper,

1582
01:05:55,893 --> 01:05:57,144
and then into the code.

1583
01:05:57,228 --> 01:05:58,270
That's a complete myth.

1584
01:05:58,437 --> 01:06:00,523
Hoback:
So Bitcoin's greatest "virtue"

1585
01:06:00,564 --> 01:06:03,067
became that
it was already perfect,

1586
01:06:03,150 --> 01:06:06,570
reinforcing that it could
never fundamentally change.

1587
01:06:06,612 --> 01:06:10,324
Which created an opening
for its greatest competition.

1588
01:06:10,783 --> 01:06:12,910
Ethereum, a coin which was

1589
01:06:12,993 --> 01:06:15,037
Bitcoin's opposite
in almost every way,

1590
01:06:15,079 --> 01:06:17,748
including having
a very prominent founder.

1591
01:06:17,832 --> 01:06:20,292
-Why the hat?
-Oh, yeah...

1592
01:06:20,376 --> 01:06:21,460
For mosquitoes?

1593
01:06:21,669 --> 01:06:23,713
(speaking English)

1594
01:06:25,923 --> 01:06:28,008
So, Bitcoin is a blockchain

1595
01:06:28,092 --> 01:06:29,969
that's designed
for one application.

1596
01:06:30,052 --> 01:06:33,764
-The hat makes you
even more... conspicious.
-(Buterin mutters)

1597
01:06:33,806 --> 01:06:35,641
Vitalik Buterin:
Ethereum basically
will let people do

1598
01:06:35,725 --> 01:06:38,102
whatever thing that they want
to do on top of it.

1599
01:06:38,144 --> 01:06:40,187
Hoback:
Like NFTs,

1600
01:06:40,271 --> 01:06:42,648
which are basically just...
whatever fucking shit

1601
01:06:42,732 --> 01:06:44,191
stored on a blockchain.

1602
01:06:44,275 --> 01:06:46,652
-We're part of the same
community. We're both apes.
-I know. Yes, love it.

1603
01:06:46,736 --> 01:06:49,447
Hoback:
Some people paid
ungodly amounts for these.

1604
01:06:50,614 --> 01:06:53,367
The Ethereum team even made
their announcements

1605
01:06:53,451 --> 01:06:56,245
-through... rap.
-(hip-hop music playing)

1606
01:06:56,287 --> 01:06:58,748
♪ Yo, not just a pre-compiler
change of op-codes ♪

1607
01:06:58,789 --> 01:07:01,500
♪ We're here to sustain
the scale of our full nodes ♪

1608
01:07:01,584 --> 01:07:03,836
♪ Proof-of-stake is hard,
but what I do know ♪

1609
01:07:03,919 --> 01:07:06,797
♪ Is when we learn to shard
we'll change
the whole game though ♪

1610
01:07:06,839 --> 01:07:09,508
Back: I mean, that was
super embarrassing, right?

1611
01:07:09,592 --> 01:07:10,676
-Yeah.
-(laughter)

1612
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:12,094
Proof of cringe or something.

1613
01:07:12,136 --> 01:07:13,929
-(Prince Philip laughs)
-That was pretty bad.

1614
01:07:13,971 --> 01:07:16,891
Hoback:
Naturally, Bitcoin maximalists
hate Ethereum.

1615
01:07:16,974 --> 01:07:19,560
But then, what do you do
with Ethereum?
You make more shitcoins.

1616
01:07:19,643 --> 01:07:22,104
It went from
10,000 coins to 20,000 coins

1617
01:07:22,188 --> 01:07:24,482
in actually not that long
of a period of time.

1618
01:07:24,565 --> 01:07:26,317
The Scambrian explosion.

1619
01:07:26,359 --> 01:07:29,737
-(laughter)
-(somber music playing)

1620
01:07:29,820 --> 01:07:32,865
Hoback:
But, the so-called
Scambrian explosion

1621
01:07:32,948 --> 01:07:35,826
had a serious side effect.

1622
01:07:35,910 --> 01:07:38,037
China now had
the excuse it needed

1623
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,915
to ban all crypto currencies,

1624
01:07:40,998 --> 01:07:43,000
so that they could
launch their own.

1625
01:07:43,042 --> 01:07:45,711
China's currency
is going digital,

1626
01:07:45,795 --> 01:07:48,464
known as e-Chinese yuan.

1627
01:07:48,506 --> 01:07:52,176
Hoback:
It was basically
a government-backed shitcoin.

1628
01:07:52,259 --> 01:07:54,220
Their digital currency
was inflationary,

1629
01:07:54,303 --> 01:07:56,972
their government had
total control of your wallet,

1630
01:07:57,056 --> 01:07:58,766
and it took Bitcoin's
privacy problems

1631
01:07:58,849 --> 01:08:00,393
and turned them into a feature.

1632
01:08:00,476 --> 01:08:03,312
speaker:
The People's Bank of China
is gonna be able

1633
01:08:03,354 --> 01:08:06,691
to peer inside of
every single transaction.

1634
01:08:06,774 --> 01:08:10,194
So, they're building
everything to be monitored.

1635
01:08:10,277 --> 01:08:12,071
(crowd clamoring)

1636
01:08:12,154 --> 01:08:14,198
So, there were protests
in Hong Kong.

1637
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:15,324
And what people had to do

1638
01:08:15,366 --> 01:08:16,951
was buy their subway tickets
with cash.

1639
01:08:17,034 --> 01:08:18,869
-They couldn't use their card.
-Hoback: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

1640
01:08:18,953 --> 01:08:20,204
Mow:
Because then you can be traced

1641
01:08:20,287 --> 01:08:21,706
that you went to the protests.

1642
01:08:21,747 --> 01:08:23,332
So, it's a very dangerous thing.

1643
01:08:23,374 --> 01:08:26,419
Hoback:
It's what's known as a CBDC,

1644
01:08:26,502 --> 01:08:29,004
or central bank
digital currency.

1645
01:08:29,046 --> 01:08:31,465
With Bitcoin, it still takes
some digging

1646
01:08:31,549 --> 01:08:33,426
to figure out who owns what.

1647
01:08:33,509 --> 01:08:35,469
And if you're careful,
or you're Satoshi

1648
01:08:35,553 --> 01:08:38,723
-and never spend your coins,
you can stay hidden.
-(whoosh)

1649
01:08:38,806 --> 01:08:41,934
But, with CBDCs, your identity
is known to the government

1650
01:08:42,017 --> 01:08:44,478
and your wallet controlled.

1651
01:08:44,562 --> 01:08:46,981
In other words,
Satoshi's invention

1652
01:08:47,064 --> 01:08:50,443
had given rise to the very
thing it aimed to prevent.

1653
01:08:51,402 --> 01:08:55,740
-(money rustling)
-What would happen if other
countries followed suit?

1654
01:08:58,534 --> 01:09:02,246
But, the Maxis were convinced
that Bitcoin would win the day,

1655
01:09:02,329 --> 01:09:04,165
putting their faith on display

1656
01:09:04,248 --> 01:09:06,834
by pilgrimaging to a massive
yearly conference.

1657
01:09:06,917 --> 01:09:08,544
And it's ridiculous.

1658
01:09:08,586 --> 01:09:11,839
-(upbeat music playing)
-(crowd cheering)

1659
01:09:13,591 --> 01:09:15,885
I'll die on this hill,
but they can't stop this idea.

1660
01:09:15,926 --> 01:09:18,679
Maxi:
That bright orange future
that is Bitcoin...

1661
01:09:18,763 --> 01:09:22,099
We are the vanguard
of a new monetary system.

1662
01:09:22,141 --> 01:09:23,267
(cheering)

1663
01:09:23,350 --> 01:09:25,519
Yo! Yo! Yo! Bitcoin!

1664
01:09:25,603 --> 01:09:28,814
I am more bullish
than ever on Bitcoin.

1665
01:09:28,981 --> 01:09:30,149
(music stops)

1666
01:09:30,232 --> 01:09:32,151
Hoback:
It's like you're in
some sort of cult.

1667
01:09:32,234 --> 01:09:34,445
(laughs) You're gonna
make me look bad.

1668
01:09:34,487 --> 01:09:37,823
-(crowd cheering)
-I have Senator Indira Kempis

1669
01:09:37,907 --> 01:09:39,450
to give an update on Mexico.

1670
01:09:39,533 --> 01:09:42,328
Indira Kempis:
67 million people
are not included

1671
01:09:42,411 --> 01:09:43,621
in our financial system.

1672
01:09:43,704 --> 01:09:46,457
As the president of Madeira,
I believe in Bitcoin.

1673
01:09:46,499 --> 01:09:49,168
Bitcoin, within Prospera,

1674
01:09:49,251 --> 01:09:51,170
operates as legal tender.

1675
01:09:51,253 --> 01:09:53,839
I'll make a small announcement.

1676
01:09:54,548 --> 01:09:57,510
I have a new Bitcoin
company called Jan3.

1677
01:09:58,177 --> 01:10:00,137
I decided to leave Blockstream

1678
01:10:00,221 --> 01:10:02,306
and focus more on
nation-state Bitcoin adoption.

1679
01:10:02,390 --> 01:10:05,351
Hoback: So, were
they feeling the pressure?

1680
01:10:05,434 --> 01:10:06,685
(gallery chatter)

1681
01:10:06,769 --> 01:10:09,355
I guess Bitcoin doesn't
adopt itself, right?

1682
01:10:09,438 --> 01:10:12,733
-Well, I want it to go faster.
-(Back laughs)

1683
01:10:12,817 --> 01:10:15,528
Back:
So, uh, your company name, 3Jan?

1684
01:10:15,611 --> 01:10:18,072
-Jan3.
-So, explain why 3Jan?

1685
01:10:18,155 --> 01:10:20,491
January 3, 2009.

1686
01:10:20,574 --> 01:10:21,826
That was the start
of Bitcoin, was it?

1687
01:10:21,867 --> 01:10:23,494
-Well, that's the
Genesis Block, right?
-Okay!

1688
01:10:23,536 --> 01:10:25,204
Every year, it's Jan 3
is the anniversary

1689
01:10:25,287 --> 01:10:27,707
-of the Genesis Block.
-Alright, yeah, you're good
on the anniversaries.

1690
01:10:27,790 --> 01:10:29,959
Hoback:
Samson was telling me there was
another anniversary recently

1691
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,713
-that I did not know of.
-Yeah, uh, Adam's birthday
on April 5th.

1692
01:10:34,213 --> 01:10:35,256
(awkward laugh)

1693
01:10:35,756 --> 01:10:37,383
-That's not my birthday.
-Inside joke.

1694
01:10:37,466 --> 01:10:40,094
-Is it? Very well.
-It's an inside joke.

1695
01:10:40,177 --> 01:10:41,637
Hoback:
April 5th

1696
01:10:41,679 --> 01:10:44,306
was Satoshi's
supposed birthday.

1697
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:47,351
-Mow: She wants to take
a photo with her artwork.
-Back: Okay.

1698
01:10:47,393 --> 01:10:49,687
-It has no sleeve, right?
-No.

1699
01:10:49,729 --> 01:10:51,397
-It's a cloak? Alright.
-It's a cloak.

1700
01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:54,316
-(shutters snapping, laughter)
-You guys are having fun now.

1701
01:10:56,694 --> 01:10:58,863
So, he thinks that
you're Satoshi.

1702
01:10:58,904 --> 01:11:00,614
I hope he doesn't. (laughs)

1703
01:11:00,698 --> 01:11:02,867
I tried to explain to him
specifically that I'm not.

1704
01:11:02,908 --> 01:11:04,994
Hoback:
I said that you can
make a case for Adam,

1705
01:11:05,077 --> 01:11:06,328
and you can make
a strong case,

1706
01:11:06,412 --> 01:11:07,872
but it doesn't mean
that I'm convinced.

1707
01:11:07,955 --> 01:11:09,999
No, Satoshi was a team.

1708
01:11:10,082 --> 01:11:11,125
♪♪

1709
01:11:11,208 --> 01:11:12,877
(laughing)

1710
01:11:12,918 --> 01:11:14,170
Just kidding. Just kidding.

1711
01:11:14,253 --> 01:11:16,881
Hoback:
Even with the breakup,
I was a little surprised

1712
01:11:16,922 --> 01:11:20,760
he was trolling Adam this hard
about being Satoshi.

1713
01:11:21,218 --> 01:11:24,096
-(Back speaking)
-(laughter)

1714
01:11:24,889 --> 01:11:27,058
Hoback:
Yeah, yeah, as long as
the troll is on your side.

1715
01:11:27,099 --> 01:11:29,977
(Back speaking)

1716
01:11:34,190 --> 01:11:36,442
(soft music playing)

1717
01:11:38,986 --> 01:11:40,946
(upbeat music playing)

1718
01:11:42,406 --> 01:11:44,116
-(items clatter)
-Mow: Oh, boy.

1719
01:11:44,575 --> 01:11:47,203
-(plane humming)
-Hoback: The US had more
or less fought wars

1720
01:11:47,286 --> 01:11:48,788
to maintain the status
of the dollar

1721
01:11:48,871 --> 01:11:50,539
as the global
reserve currency.

1722
01:11:50,623 --> 01:11:52,249
-Let's order a coffee.
-Okay.

1723
01:11:52,291 --> 01:11:53,667
Hoback:
How might they react

1724
01:11:53,751 --> 01:11:55,586
if more countries
adopted Bitcoin?

1725
01:11:55,628 --> 01:11:56,629
Mow:
I'm not gonna lie.

1726
01:11:56,712 --> 01:11:57,922
You're probably gonna
get some heat

1727
01:11:58,047 --> 01:12:00,758
because the powers that be
don't want this to happen.

1728
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,803
Prince Philip:
All currencies
will turn to one.

1729
01:12:03,886 --> 01:12:04,637
Bitcoin.

1730
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:06,138
Things change very quickly.

1731
01:12:06,222 --> 01:12:09,266
Tucker, I just wanna say hi.
You're doing an excellent job.

1732
01:12:09,308 --> 01:12:11,227
That's my card. (laughs)

1733
01:12:11,310 --> 01:12:14,105
-I'm the crazy prince
that's talking about Bitcoin.
-(laughs)

1734
01:12:14,146 --> 01:12:16,440
But, you know how it is.
They-- First, they laugh at you.

1735
01:12:16,524 --> 01:12:18,317
(indistinct chatter)

1736
01:12:18,401 --> 01:12:19,735
Stealth mode.

1737
01:12:19,777 --> 01:12:22,113
That's not stealth.
That's a Canada hoodie.

1738
01:12:22,154 --> 01:12:24,490
(Prince Philip speaking English)

1739
01:12:27,910 --> 01:12:29,787
Jack Dorsey: What Bitcoin
does to societies,

1740
01:12:29,870 --> 01:12:32,039
what it does to people's
relationship with money,

1741
01:12:32,123 --> 01:12:35,668
to the state, to each other,
it literally changes everything.

1742
01:12:36,419 --> 01:12:38,671
Hoback:
But, what path would it take?

1743
01:12:38,754 --> 01:12:40,589
♪♪

1744
01:12:40,631 --> 01:12:43,426
Today, Bitcoin takes
yet another turn lower.

1745
01:12:43,467 --> 01:12:45,511
This is a Bitcoin emergency.

1746
01:12:45,594 --> 01:12:48,305
Complete free fall.
Anything can happen.

1747
01:12:48,347 --> 01:12:49,974
(thunder rumbles)

1748
01:12:50,057 --> 01:12:52,852
There's a crisis. You've got
reporters calling you right now.

1749
01:12:52,935 --> 01:12:55,813
-(boat rumbling)
-What are you telling them?

1750
01:12:56,355 --> 01:12:58,649
Well, I mean,
people look at the short term,

1751
01:12:58,691 --> 01:13:00,985
and the news cycle
is, like, day by day.

1752
01:13:01,068 --> 01:13:04,405
But, Bitcoin has been around
for, like, over a decade.

1753
01:13:04,822 --> 01:13:05,948
(thunder cracks)

1754
01:13:06,282 --> 01:13:07,533
(Hoback speaking)

1755
01:13:07,825 --> 01:13:09,285
-(boat captain speaking)
-Yeah.

1756
01:13:09,326 --> 01:13:11,328
-That's pretty cool.
-(murmuring)

1757
01:13:11,412 --> 01:13:13,164
(Hoback speaking)

1758
01:13:13,205 --> 01:13:14,457
(boat captain speaking)

1759
01:13:16,709 --> 01:13:18,461
Hoback:
Unfortunately for him,

1760
01:13:18,544 --> 01:13:19,837
amidst this crash,

1761
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:23,174
Luna was a shitcoin
that really hit the fan.

1762
01:13:23,257 --> 01:13:24,383
(Hoback speaking)

1763
01:13:24,842 --> 01:13:27,511
-He had it.
-Yes. (laughs)

1764
01:13:27,553 --> 01:13:29,263
Hoback:
Looking like a Ponzi scheme...

1765
01:13:29,346 --> 01:13:30,514
You're looking at
a similar scale

1766
01:13:30,556 --> 01:13:31,807
to the Madoff Ponzi.

1767
01:13:31,849 --> 01:13:33,851
Hoback:
...after million-dollar
Ponzi scheme...

1768
01:13:33,934 --> 01:13:36,187
Celsius is being
accused of functioning

1769
01:13:36,270 --> 01:13:37,480
like a Ponzi scheme.

1770
01:13:37,563 --> 01:13:39,065
Hoback:
...this was their founder.

1771
01:13:39,148 --> 01:13:42,360
Who would be crazy enough
to give their coins,

1772
01:13:42,401 --> 01:13:44,904
their crypto, to somebody
who's not a bank?

1773
01:13:44,987 --> 01:13:48,157
Hoback:
But the people who trusted
this guy with their crypto,

1774
01:13:48,199 --> 01:13:49,533
they lost billions.

1775
01:13:49,617 --> 01:13:52,036
This is bullshit!
I gave you my goddamn money!

1776
01:13:52,119 --> 01:13:54,747
I want it back!
What the fuck is going on?!

1777
01:13:54,830 --> 01:13:56,749
Jim Cramer:
Cryptocurrencies of all kinds

1778
01:13:56,832 --> 01:13:59,502
are still cascading
with no real bottom in sight.

1779
01:13:59,543 --> 01:14:01,879
-(thunder cracks)
-Hoback: Is lightning serious?

1780
01:14:01,921 --> 01:14:02,963
(boat roaring)

1781
01:14:03,047 --> 01:14:05,216
Uh, I guess we're-we're
getting the hell outta here.

1782
01:14:05,299 --> 01:14:08,219
But, this storm wasn't over.

1783
01:14:08,260 --> 01:14:09,720
FTX shocked investors

1784
01:14:09,804 --> 01:14:11,263
by declaring
bankruptcy this week.

1785
01:14:11,347 --> 01:14:15,518
It spent millions making sure
its name was seen and known.

1786
01:14:15,601 --> 01:14:18,771
Hoback:
Sam Bankman-Fried,
known as SBF,

1787
01:14:18,854 --> 01:14:21,774
was the young, disheveled CEO
of a massive US-based

1788
01:14:21,857 --> 01:14:24,068
crypto exchange called FTX.

1789
01:14:24,151 --> 01:14:26,487
FTX? It's a safe and easy way
to get into crypto.

1790
01:14:26,570 --> 01:14:28,072
Eh, I don't think so.

1791
01:14:28,114 --> 01:14:31,283
Hoback:
He defrauded customers
and stole billions.

1792
01:14:31,826 --> 01:14:33,744
reporter:
This is worse than Theranos.

1793
01:14:33,828 --> 01:14:35,538
This is worse than Madoff.

1794
01:14:36,247 --> 01:14:38,958
Hoback:
And although he donated to
a lot of politicians

1795
01:14:39,041 --> 01:14:39,917
and charities...

1796
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:41,836
If I can do anything
to help other people,

1797
01:14:41,919 --> 01:14:43,295
help the world,
that's just as good.

1798
01:14:43,587 --> 01:14:46,799
Hoback:
...he didn't manage to bribe
his way out of being arrested.

1799
01:14:46,882 --> 01:14:49,635
The fraud they committed
was worse than the Enron mess,

1800
01:14:49,719 --> 01:14:52,680
according to the guy
who cleaned up the Enron mess.

1801
01:14:52,763 --> 01:14:54,098
They used QuickBooks.

1802
01:14:54,140 --> 01:14:56,809
Multi-billion-dollar company
using QuickBooks.

1803
01:14:56,892 --> 01:14:59,270
Back:
The regulators, when they
see something losing...

1804
01:14:59,311 --> 01:15:00,604
(thunder cracks)

1805
01:15:00,646 --> 01:15:02,565
...$60 billion of retail money,

1806
01:15:02,648 --> 01:15:04,483
then, of course, they're gonna
have something to say.

1807
01:15:04,567 --> 01:15:05,776
Hoback:
Yeah, alright, let's get out.

1808
01:15:05,860 --> 01:15:07,987
The Secretary of the Treasury,
Janet Yellen,

1809
01:15:08,070 --> 01:15:09,822
began acting on
an executive order

1810
01:15:09,905 --> 01:15:13,784
that Biden had signed to
rein in the crypto industry.

1811
01:15:13,826 --> 01:15:16,078
There are risks to
financial stability,

1812
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:17,496
and we need a framework.

1813
01:15:17,663 --> 01:15:20,332
Hoback:
But, what would this mean
for Bitcoin?

1814
01:15:21,125 --> 01:15:23,919
Just because you're paranoid
doesn't mean they're
not out to get you.

1815
01:15:24,545 --> 01:15:26,797
It's actually more realistic
than you think.

1816
01:15:28,090 --> 01:15:31,594
-(planes idling)
-Hello, Melina.
Good to see you again.

1817
01:15:31,635 --> 01:15:33,637
Hoback:
Samson returned to El Salvador,

1818
01:15:33,721 --> 01:15:35,347
where the President
was facing increased

1819
01:15:35,431 --> 01:15:38,559
international pressure
for having adopted Bitcoin.

1820
01:15:38,642 --> 01:15:40,227
The attacks are increasing.

1821
01:15:40,311 --> 01:15:42,188
This rating agency
just downgraded

1822
01:15:42,271 --> 01:15:43,689
El Salvador's long-term debt.

1823
01:15:43,773 --> 01:15:45,358
They're trying to put
the pressure on.

1824
01:15:45,441 --> 01:15:47,651
But, President
doesn't give a fuck.

1825
01:15:47,693 --> 01:15:49,320
Shepard Smith:
The International Monetary Fund

1826
01:15:49,403 --> 01:15:52,490
has urged El Salvador
to reverse course on Bitcoin.

1827
01:15:52,573 --> 01:15:53,866
In response, Bukele tweeted,

1828
01:15:53,949 --> 01:15:56,911
"Okay, boomers.
You have zero jurisdiction.

1829
01:15:56,994 --> 01:16:00,164
We are not your colony, your
backyard, or your front yard."

1830
01:16:00,206 --> 01:16:02,958
William Soriano:
The IMF has some
political control

1831
01:16:03,042 --> 01:16:05,628
over the countries
they assist.

1832
01:16:05,711 --> 01:16:08,005
And that's where
Bitcoin comes in.

1833
01:16:08,089 --> 01:16:09,673
The first time I saw him,
he was saying,

1834
01:16:09,757 --> 01:16:12,510
"We're ready to die
on this hill. All of us!

1835
01:16:12,593 --> 01:16:14,011
We're ready to die
on this hill."

1836
01:16:14,095 --> 01:16:16,806
Hoback:
Hope they were ready
because the powers that be

1837
01:16:16,847 --> 01:16:19,308
-had a plan of their own.
-(waves splashing)

1838
01:16:21,268 --> 01:16:22,061
(insects chirping)

1839
01:16:22,144 --> 01:16:24,563
Okay, yeah,
this is the news. So...

1840
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:28,109
uh, MasterCard, Wells Fargo,
Citigroup, and others launch

1841
01:16:28,192 --> 01:16:30,528
a 12-week experimental
digital dollar pilot

1842
01:16:30,569 --> 01:16:32,571
with the New York Fed.
Did you see that?

1843
01:16:32,655 --> 01:16:35,241
I didn't see that.
So what, it's a CBDC?

1844
01:16:36,742 --> 01:16:38,202
Oh, interesting.

1845
01:16:40,204 --> 01:16:42,540
-Your plot is coming true.
-Can I give you this?

1846
01:16:42,623 --> 01:16:44,208
Mow:
Things are heating up.

1847
01:16:44,291 --> 01:16:46,544
Can I give you some fiat?

1848
01:16:46,627 --> 01:16:48,170
-(laughter)
-(curious music playing)

1849
01:16:48,254 --> 01:16:50,548
Hoback: Under the cover
of the FTX scandal,

1850
01:16:50,631 --> 01:16:51,841
the United States announced

1851
01:16:52,091 --> 01:16:56,095
it would explore remaking
the US Dollar as a CBDC.

1852
01:16:56,887 --> 01:16:59,890
You know, that thing that was
condemned by Western media

1853
01:16:59,974 --> 01:17:03,477
-and US politicians
over human rights issues.
-(crowd yelling)

1854
01:17:03,769 --> 01:17:06,605
The Chinese CBDC
is a surveillance tool.

1855
01:17:07,064 --> 01:17:09,859
Hoback:
But now, the West was
preparing to get on board.

1856
01:17:09,942 --> 01:17:12,069
The Fed even had
their own white paper.

1857
01:17:12,111 --> 01:17:14,071
Jerome Powell:
As our white paper
on this topic notes,

1858
01:17:14,155 --> 01:17:17,658
a US CBDC could also
potentially help maintain

1859
01:17:17,742 --> 01:17:19,160
the dollar's
international standing.

1860
01:17:19,243 --> 01:17:21,537
-Hoback: A digital dollar...
-(glitching)

1861
01:17:21,579 --> 01:17:24,415
...that could replace
cash entirely.

1862
01:17:24,457 --> 01:17:26,584
And they weren't alone.

1863
01:17:26,667 --> 01:17:28,127
♪♪

1864
01:17:28,377 --> 01:17:31,088
reporter:
60% of central banks
around the world

1865
01:17:31,172 --> 01:17:32,923
are currently experimenting
with CBDCs.

1866
01:17:33,007 --> 01:17:35,885
The CBDCs,
it's really or authoritarianism

1867
01:17:35,968 --> 01:17:37,887
from even Western governments.

1868
01:17:37,970 --> 01:17:41,307
On CBDCs, I have
pushed that project.

1869
01:17:41,390 --> 01:17:42,516
By 2030,

1870
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,478
Britcoin,
a central bank digital currency,

1871
01:17:45,561 --> 01:17:46,645
will be up and running.

1872
01:17:47,063 --> 01:17:49,023
Hoback:
Why would a country
adopt Bitcoin

1873
01:17:49,106 --> 01:17:50,816
when a government could just

1874
01:17:50,900 --> 01:17:52,651
issue their own
digital currency

1875
01:17:52,735 --> 01:17:55,071
and have complete control?

1876
01:17:55,154 --> 01:17:57,406
Digital public money
could help drive out

1877
01:17:57,448 --> 01:17:59,283
bogus digital private money.

1878
01:17:59,367 --> 01:18:01,035
Ver: The technology
is tough to compete with,

1879
01:18:01,118 --> 01:18:02,828
so if you can't beat 'em,
you have to join 'em.

1880
01:18:03,079 --> 01:18:05,122
reporter:
It is potentially
the biggest change to money

1881
01:18:05,164 --> 01:18:06,165
since, I don't know,

1882
01:18:06,207 --> 01:18:08,459
currency consolidation
after the Civil War.

1883
01:18:08,501 --> 01:18:09,835
Roubini:
Once we have CBDCs,

1884
01:18:09,919 --> 01:18:12,046
they're gonna
essentially crowd out

1885
01:18:12,129 --> 01:18:13,964
any alternative
payment system.

1886
01:18:14,340 --> 01:18:16,634
So, the future
of payment transaction

1887
01:18:16,717 --> 01:18:18,803
is one bank,
run by the government

1888
01:18:18,844 --> 01:18:20,971
with some cooperation
of the private sector,

1889
01:18:21,013 --> 01:18:22,473
financial institutions.

1890
01:18:22,681 --> 01:18:26,352
Hoback:
So, banks might still manage
things like giving out loans.

1891
01:18:26,727 --> 01:18:28,020
But someday, our bank accounts

1892
01:18:28,104 --> 01:18:30,648
could be directly with the Fed?

1893
01:18:30,690 --> 01:18:32,149
They can surveil
all your transactions,

1894
01:18:32,233 --> 01:18:33,818
and they have
complete data monopoly.

1895
01:18:33,901 --> 01:18:36,821
Well, I think it's
a bit of a crossroads. (laughs)

1896
01:18:36,862 --> 01:18:39,031
It could become
extremely dystopian.

1897
01:18:39,115 --> 01:18:41,075
♪♪

1898
01:18:41,158 --> 01:18:42,868
Mow: There is a way
that you could do a CBDC

1899
01:18:42,952 --> 01:18:45,538
that is not... bad for people.

1900
01:18:45,621 --> 01:18:47,790
-But, the problem is
they don't want that.
-No, of course not.

1901
01:18:47,873 --> 01:18:49,333
They don't want the privacy.

1902
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,169
Faster Bitcoin adoption means

1903
01:18:52,211 --> 01:18:55,464
the better off the world will be
when the shit hits the fan.

1904
01:18:56,674 --> 01:18:58,592
And the shit is hitting the fan.

1905
01:18:58,676 --> 01:19:00,761
(curious music playing)

1906
01:19:00,845 --> 01:19:03,681
Fallout continues
to grow from the collapse

1907
01:19:03,723 --> 01:19:05,683
of Silicon Valley Bank
and Signature Bank.

1908
01:19:05,766 --> 01:19:06,892
First Republic Bank,

1909
01:19:07,017 --> 01:19:10,187
second largest bank failure
in US history.

1910
01:19:10,229 --> 01:19:13,941
Hoback:
Following the pandemic,
the Fed printed a lot of money.

1911
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:17,445
$13 trillion.
It triggered inflation

1912
01:19:17,528 --> 01:19:19,780
not seen in over 40 years.

1913
01:19:19,864 --> 01:19:22,408
Suddenly, banks had
risky balance sheets.

1914
01:19:22,491 --> 01:19:23,534
There were bank runs,

1915
01:19:23,617 --> 01:19:26,704
and four massive banks
were wiped out overnight.

1916
01:19:27,204 --> 01:19:29,665
Similar to what happened
in 2009,

1917
01:19:29,707 --> 01:19:31,417
the government stepped in
to prevent

1918
01:19:31,500 --> 01:19:33,002
a total financial meltdown.

1919
01:19:33,085 --> 01:19:35,463
I can reassure the members
of the committee

1920
01:19:35,546 --> 01:19:37,923
that our banking system
is sound.

1921
01:19:38,007 --> 01:19:39,550
Hoback:
Amid this crisis,

1922
01:19:39,592 --> 01:19:41,385
regulators seized
an opportunity.

1923
01:19:41,469 --> 01:19:43,429
Kathy Hochul:
New York State Department
of Financial Services

1924
01:19:43,512 --> 01:19:46,891
took possession of
a New York chartered bank,

1925
01:19:46,932 --> 01:19:48,726
known as Signature,
last night.

1926
01:19:48,809 --> 01:19:50,352
Hoback:
This was strange

1927
01:19:50,436 --> 01:19:53,105
because Signature Bank
wasn't actually insolvent.

1928
01:19:53,564 --> 01:19:57,777
Meanwhile, First Republic,
another bank that failed, was.

1929
01:19:58,319 --> 01:19:59,820
But instead of
shutting them down,

1930
01:19:59,904 --> 01:20:01,405
they got a full bail-out.

1931
01:20:02,073 --> 01:20:05,493
The difference, Signature was
the only major bank

1932
01:20:05,576 --> 01:20:07,953
servicing the crypto industry.

1933
01:20:08,037 --> 01:20:11,415
The regulators are sending a,
uh, a clear signal.

1934
01:20:11,457 --> 01:20:13,084
Stay, stay away from digital.

1935
01:20:13,501 --> 01:20:15,920
Hoback:
But, the next signal
would come in the form

1936
01:20:15,961 --> 01:20:17,922
of a familiar face.

1937
01:20:17,963 --> 01:20:20,716
So, Roger Ver, Bitcoin Jesus

1938
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:22,676
was just arrested in Spain.

1939
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,136
Roger had allegedly evaded

1940
01:20:24,220 --> 01:20:27,431
$48 million in Bitcoin taxes.

1941
01:20:27,515 --> 01:20:30,309
You can have your own
private bank account, right?

1942
01:20:30,393 --> 01:20:33,437
It's called a Bitcoin account,
and it's impossible

1943
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:35,064
for the government
to seize your account.

1944
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:37,942
Hoback:
But, it seems
they could extradite him,

1945
01:20:37,983 --> 01:20:40,569
even though he'd renounced
his US citizenship.

1946
01:20:41,946 --> 01:20:43,656
Todd: You know,
what you're really asking

1947
01:20:43,739 --> 01:20:45,116
is what's the endpoint
to the crackdowns.

1948
01:20:45,157 --> 01:20:47,034
This is an example
of regulators

1949
01:20:47,118 --> 01:20:49,286
who cannot actually do
what they want to do,

1950
01:20:49,370 --> 01:20:51,455
-which was just go ban Bitcoin.
-Back: Right.

1951
01:20:51,497 --> 01:20:54,125
Instead, they apply pressure
in this sort of alternative way

1952
01:20:54,208 --> 01:20:56,794
to go do something they're
not really allowed to do.

1953
01:20:56,836 --> 01:20:58,713
They fired all
the missiles now, right?

1954
01:20:58,796 --> 01:21:01,298
They-They've sued
the biggest exchanges.

1955
01:21:01,340 --> 01:21:02,883
They've made
all the allegations.

1956
01:21:02,967 --> 01:21:06,554
Hoback:
But, the big banks and the
government weren't done yet.

1957
01:21:07,179 --> 01:21:09,306
Dimon:
Crypto, Bitcoin, etc.

1958
01:21:09,390 --> 01:21:11,142
If I was the government,
I'd close it down.

1959
01:21:11,225 --> 01:21:12,685
We've got a way to do this!

1960
01:21:12,768 --> 01:21:16,188
Hoback:
So, Senator Warren
introduced a bipartisan bill

1961
01:21:16,272 --> 01:21:17,815
that would essentially
make it illegal

1962
01:21:17,898 --> 01:21:20,151
to use Bitcoin
like digital cash.

1963
01:21:20,234 --> 01:21:21,944
Asked if they would
support this,

1964
01:21:21,986 --> 01:21:23,821
the banks seemed delighted.

1965
01:21:23,863 --> 01:21:25,489
-Let's go on down the line.
-Absolutely.

1966
01:21:25,531 --> 01:21:27,700
-banker 1: Absolutely.
-banker 2: Absolutely.

1967
01:21:27,783 --> 01:21:29,118
banker 3:
Absolutely.

1968
01:21:29,201 --> 01:21:31,162
-Absolutely, Senator.
-Okay, I like absolutely!

1969
01:21:31,203 --> 01:21:34,498
Hoback:
But Wall Street had a plan.

1970
01:21:34,540 --> 01:21:36,125
Let's get it inside
the regulated system

1971
01:21:36,167 --> 01:21:37,543
as much as, as we can.

1972
01:21:37,626 --> 01:21:40,296
Hoback:
Bitcoin would be traded
on the stock market,

1973
01:21:40,337 --> 01:21:42,006
but you wouldn't
actually own it.

1974
01:21:42,089 --> 01:21:45,468
The banks and hedge funds,
they would hold it for you.

1975
01:21:45,509 --> 01:21:47,261
This is the day
where it goes from malarkey

1976
01:21:47,344 --> 01:21:48,971
to actually
an investable asset.

1977
01:21:49,013 --> 01:21:52,767
Hoback:
Bitcoin would now be a part of
retirement funds and pensions.

1978
01:21:52,850 --> 01:21:55,603
Put Bitcoin in their 401(k)s.

1979
01:21:55,686 --> 01:21:58,230
Hoback:
Solidifying its role
as digital gold.

1980
01:21:59,982 --> 01:22:02,860
♪♪

1981
01:22:02,902 --> 01:22:04,362
It seemed so long as Bitcoin

1982
01:22:04,445 --> 01:22:07,365
didn't compete
with the US dollar,

1983
01:22:07,406 --> 01:22:10,201
so long as governments could
monitor every transaction...

1984
01:22:10,242 --> 01:22:12,370
Let's do
a central bank digital currency.

1985
01:22:12,453 --> 01:22:13,704
Are you there?

1986
01:22:13,746 --> 01:22:15,081
Yes, I think it's time.

1987
01:22:15,414 --> 01:22:19,585
Hoback:
...so long as Bitcoin didn't
function like digital cash,

1988
01:22:19,668 --> 01:22:21,420
it would be allowed.

1989
01:22:21,504 --> 01:22:23,047
Because
the Small Blocker solution

1990
01:22:23,130 --> 01:22:25,049
kind of required
government permission.

1991
01:22:25,132 --> 01:22:27,885
Taaki:
Those people who are like,
"We need Bitcoin

1992
01:22:27,927 --> 01:22:29,720
"to become, like,
well-established,

1993
01:22:29,804 --> 01:22:31,639
become accepted by the banks,"

1994
01:22:31,722 --> 01:22:34,392
they didn't realize that they
were, like, cutting this deal

1995
01:22:34,475 --> 01:22:36,894
which would compromise
some Bitcoin's values.

1996
01:22:36,977 --> 01:22:40,231
Hoback: In fact,
Maxis seemed more concerned

1997
01:22:40,314 --> 01:22:41,691
with Bitcoin
hitting a million dollars

1998
01:22:41,774 --> 01:22:43,150
than being usable as cash.

1999
01:22:43,234 --> 01:22:45,069
Mow:
To get to one million,
we should be going up,

2000
01:22:45,152 --> 01:22:47,071
on average, 10k a day.

2001
01:22:47,571 --> 01:22:49,740
Hoback:
And if Bitcoin hits
a million dollars,

2002
01:22:49,824 --> 01:22:51,742
then Satoshi becomes
a trillionaire.

2003
01:22:51,826 --> 01:22:54,203
O'Leary:
And there has been rumors

2004
01:22:54,245 --> 01:22:55,955
that maybe Satoshi
will weigh in.

2005
01:22:56,038 --> 01:22:58,165
Hoback:
With the stakes so high,

2006
01:22:58,249 --> 01:23:00,042
and with Bitcoin
being woven into

2007
01:23:00,126 --> 01:23:02,128
the fabric of
the financial system,

2008
01:23:02,211 --> 01:23:04,338
affecting everyone,

2009
01:23:04,422 --> 01:23:07,007
perhaps the question
of Satoshi's identity

2010
01:23:07,091 --> 01:23:09,927
was more pressing than ever.

2011
01:23:09,969 --> 01:23:13,222
(dramatic music playing)

2012
01:23:18,102 --> 01:23:19,520
(tense sting)

2013
01:23:21,105 --> 01:23:23,357
(birds flapping)

2014
01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:34,869
Peter's never taken you
on one of his...

2015
01:23:35,244 --> 01:23:38,497
-caving adventures before, Adam?
-No.

2016
01:23:39,999 --> 01:23:42,001
Civilization's ruins, eh?
(laughs)

2017
01:23:42,084 --> 01:23:44,837
-Hoback: (laughs) Yeah.
-End days.

2018
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:48,215
Hoback:
When you look out on all this,
uh, abandoned shit,

2019
01:23:48,299 --> 01:23:49,967
what does it
make you think of?

2020
01:23:50,009 --> 01:23:52,678
Maybe, um,
a more decentralized future?

2021
01:23:53,054 --> 01:23:54,805
Geopolitically.

2022
01:23:54,847 --> 01:23:57,475
There's something to be said
for not breaking what--

2023
01:23:57,516 --> 01:24:00,478
Todd:
There's something to be said
for exploring this great place.

2024
01:24:00,561 --> 01:24:01,979
-Back: Okay.
-Todd: Without dying.

2025
01:24:02,063 --> 01:24:03,856
(Todd laughs)

2026
01:24:04,857 --> 01:24:08,527
Hoback:
So, there's a lot of
things that point to you,

2027
01:24:08,611 --> 01:24:10,571
Adam, being Satoshi,

2028
01:24:10,654 --> 01:24:14,158
and I had been spending some
time trying to disprove that.

2029
01:24:14,241 --> 01:24:15,743
You know,
like the Wikipedia edits?

2030
01:24:15,826 --> 01:24:18,162
Back:
It was because I was like,
why are you deleting this?

2031
01:24:18,245 --> 01:24:20,581
Bitcoin is a big deal. It's like
a clever invention, right?

2032
01:24:20,664 --> 01:24:23,667
Hoback:
You added suspects for Satoshi.

2033
01:24:23,751 --> 01:24:25,252
-Really?
-Hoback: Yeah.

2034
01:24:25,336 --> 01:24:27,838
Well, don't-don't just
agree with him. Ask for a proof.

2035
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,716
That doesn't seem like something
very advisable to do.

2036
01:24:32,051 --> 01:24:33,302
There's, like,
old emails with you

2037
01:24:33,636 --> 01:24:36,722
commenting on Bitcoin
in pretty detailed terms.

2038
01:24:36,806 --> 01:24:38,599
-I mean--
-Hoback: It doesn't mean
that you're Satoshi.

2039
01:24:38,682 --> 01:24:40,476
-It just means that you were...
-Yeah. Well, I think--

2040
01:24:40,518 --> 01:24:42,395
Hoback:
...you were engaged before you
say you were engaged.

2041
01:24:42,478 --> 01:24:44,939
Anyway, like, you're missing
the biggest piece of evidence

2042
01:24:45,022 --> 01:24:46,399
that he's Satoshi of all.

2043
01:24:46,482 --> 01:24:48,275
Which is that he gets
on the Bitcoin Talk

2044
01:24:48,359 --> 01:24:50,194
in, what, 2012 or so? 2013?

2045
01:24:50,277 --> 01:24:52,029
-'13. Mm.
-Yeah, '13.

2046
01:24:52,113 --> 01:24:53,114
And, like, he's clueless!

2047
01:24:53,197 --> 01:24:54,573
Doesn't know anything
about Bitcoin!

2048
01:24:55,116 --> 01:24:56,534
Hoback:
This wasn't the first time

2049
01:24:56,617 --> 01:24:58,327
Peter had pointed
to this evidence.

2050
01:24:58,369 --> 01:25:00,287
Best evidence of him
being Satoshi.

2051
01:25:00,371 --> 01:25:02,289
-Of not being Satoshi.
-Todd: Being Satoshi.

2052
01:25:02,373 --> 01:25:05,876
Hoback: So, was his goal
to out Adam as Satoshi?

2053
01:25:05,918 --> 01:25:08,879
It's hard to know, right?
These agencies are sneaky.

2054
01:25:08,921 --> 01:25:12,216
Hoback:
Months earlier, I began
looking into Peter Todd,

2055
01:25:12,258 --> 01:25:14,427
trying to understand
his motives.

2056
01:25:14,510 --> 01:25:17,054
In particular, I'd focused
on the leaked email exchange

2057
01:25:17,138 --> 01:25:20,349
between Peter Todd
and John Dillon,

2058
01:25:20,391 --> 01:25:22,643
the supposed government agent
who had offered Peter

2059
01:25:22,727 --> 01:25:26,313
that ridiculous $500 reward
to create replace-by-fee.

2060
01:25:26,397 --> 01:25:29,108
John Dillon's email
had supposedly been hacked,

2061
01:25:29,191 --> 01:25:31,235
and their emails were leaked.

2062
01:25:31,277 --> 01:25:33,112
I wanna talk through the stuff

2063
01:25:33,195 --> 01:25:34,739
we were going over
the other night.

2064
01:25:34,780 --> 01:25:37,158
So, I called up an editor
on my team

2065
01:25:37,241 --> 01:25:38,909
to talk through
some of these clues.

2066
01:25:38,951 --> 01:25:40,578
This is
an encrypted email chain,

2067
01:25:40,661 --> 01:25:43,414
and this is all you do
with the hack

2068
01:25:43,456 --> 01:25:46,959
is release something that makes
Peter Todd look pretty good?

2069
01:25:47,418 --> 01:25:51,047
Uh, that, to me, that's part
of what started to really...

2070
01:25:51,130 --> 01:25:54,341
smell like maybe it was
the same person.

2071
01:25:54,425 --> 01:25:55,843
Going through the archives,

2072
01:25:55,926 --> 01:25:57,928
I discovered
I wasn't alone.

2073
01:25:58,012 --> 01:26:01,223
Gavin Andresen and some
of the folks at Blockstream,

2074
01:26:01,265 --> 01:26:03,768
they also suspected
they were the same person.

2075
01:26:03,809 --> 01:26:06,562
-I mean, why did you
create the John Dillon handle?
-I didn't.

2076
01:26:06,604 --> 01:26:08,189
-(Back laughs)
-Hoback: Come on!

2077
01:26:08,272 --> 01:26:10,358
Nope. Not me.

2078
01:26:10,441 --> 01:26:13,194
Hoback:
He was playing bad cop.
You're playing good cop.

2079
01:26:13,277 --> 01:26:15,863
Back:
So, my theory about John Dillon

2080
01:26:15,946 --> 01:26:18,199
is that Peter just enjoys
perverse game theory.

2081
01:26:18,282 --> 01:26:20,951
I don't enjoy perverse
game theory that much.

2082
01:26:21,035 --> 01:26:22,203
Although it was
certainly interesting

2083
01:26:22,286 --> 01:26:23,412
to get contacted by the guy.

2084
01:26:23,954 --> 01:26:26,791
-Okay.
-I certainly enjoyed
it enough to respond to him.

2085
01:26:26,832 --> 01:26:30,336
-(film crew laughing wildly)
-Back: Mm-hmm.

2086
01:26:30,419 --> 01:26:32,838
-Okay.
-Hoback: The only person
who believes Peter is Peter.

2087
01:26:32,922 --> 01:26:34,423
Yeah,
that's how it should be.

2088
01:26:34,465 --> 01:26:36,675
Hoback:
If Peter Todd wasn't
communicating

2089
01:26:36,759 --> 01:26:39,553
with a government agent,
and he just made this shit up,

2090
01:26:39,887 --> 01:26:42,640
then why concoct
such an elaborate scheme?

2091
01:26:42,723 --> 01:26:45,267
So, I went through everything
I could find on Peter Todd,

2092
01:26:45,351 --> 01:26:46,977
going back to his
earliest messages

2093
01:26:47,019 --> 01:26:48,813
on the Bitcoin Talk forum.

2094
01:26:48,854 --> 01:26:50,064
Now, Peter likes to suggest

2095
01:26:50,147 --> 01:26:52,024
that he didn't really get
involved with Bitcoin until...

2096
01:26:52,108 --> 01:26:54,902
2014. That's when I sort of
"quit the day job," if you will.

2097
01:26:54,985 --> 01:26:56,779
Hoback:
But, he had registered
all the way back

2098
01:26:56,862 --> 01:26:58,823
in December of 2010.

2099
01:26:58,864 --> 01:26:59,865
The first thing he wrote

2100
01:26:59,949 --> 01:27:02,410
was just asking for
an invite to something.

2101
01:27:02,493 --> 01:27:04,787
But the next post,
a few days later,

2102
01:27:04,870 --> 01:27:06,330
was super technical.

2103
01:27:06,414 --> 01:27:09,667
And then, he doesn't
post again until 2012.

2104
01:27:10,376 --> 01:27:12,670
But, it's that
super technical post

2105
01:27:12,753 --> 01:27:17,466
that made me rethink
just about everything.

2106
01:27:17,508 --> 01:27:20,761
I was so taken aback,
I called my editor immediately.

2107
01:27:21,220 --> 01:27:24,515
Uh, so, I'm kind of embarrassed
I missed this.

2108
01:27:25,391 --> 01:27:28,978
So, his first post
is on December 7, 2010.

2109
01:27:29,019 --> 01:27:32,273
But then, three days later,
uh, he makes another post.

2110
01:27:32,690 --> 01:27:34,191
editor (on phone):
"Of course, to be specific,

2111
01:27:34,233 --> 01:27:36,360
"the inputs and outputs
can't match exactly

2112
01:27:36,444 --> 01:27:39,196
if the second transaction
has a transaction fee."

2113
01:27:39,238 --> 01:27:41,032
Seems like
he's responding to something.

2114
01:27:41,073 --> 01:27:42,658
(sighs) Yeah.

2115
01:27:43,534 --> 01:27:45,369
editor (on phone):
Oh, responding to Satoshi?

2116
01:27:45,453 --> 01:27:47,288
Hoback:
He's replying to Satoshi, yeah.

2117
01:27:47,371 --> 01:27:49,415
Yeah, like
an hour and a half later.

2118
01:27:50,583 --> 01:27:52,793
But, read it closely.

2119
01:27:53,335 --> 01:27:55,588
Is he responding, David?

2120
01:27:57,214 --> 01:27:59,383
Or is he continuing a thought?

2121
01:28:00,092 --> 01:28:02,636
(typing)

2122
01:28:08,893 --> 01:28:11,687
♪♪

2123
01:28:11,729 --> 01:28:16,275
So, Satoshi is proposing this,
like, future scheme

2124
01:28:16,359 --> 01:28:18,736
that hasn't been invented yet.

2125
01:28:18,778 --> 01:28:20,696
And Peter Todd

2126
01:28:20,780 --> 01:28:22,907
just kinda continues
that thought

2127
01:28:22,990 --> 01:28:24,617
an hour and a half later.

2128
01:28:25,284 --> 01:28:27,787
Someone who had
just created this account,

2129
01:28:27,870 --> 01:28:30,498
and never posted
about Bitcoin before,

2130
01:28:30,581 --> 01:28:33,417
was finishing
Satoshi's sentences?

2131
01:28:34,835 --> 01:28:37,338
With a deep fucking
knowledge of how,

2132
01:28:37,421 --> 01:28:39,924
wait for it,
replace-by-fee works.

2133
01:28:39,965 --> 01:28:41,675
That thing that Peter Todd

2134
01:28:41,759 --> 01:28:44,470
would one day invent
a character for.

2135
01:28:44,553 --> 01:28:46,263
It gets weirder though, David.

2136
01:28:46,347 --> 01:28:48,891
So, you know,
we've thought that, like,

2137
01:28:48,933 --> 01:28:52,520
Satoshi dropped off
of the Bitcoin Talk forums

2138
01:28:52,603 --> 01:28:54,522
because of WikiLeaks, right?

2139
01:28:54,605 --> 01:28:56,482
But, when would Satoshi

2140
01:28:56,565 --> 01:28:58,484
drop off the
Bitcoin Talk forum?

2141
01:28:59,110 --> 01:29:00,945
editor David (on phone):
Three days after Peter Todd

2142
01:29:00,986 --> 01:29:03,781
-replies or adds
on to this post.
-Hoback: That's right.

2143
01:29:03,864 --> 01:29:07,493
You'll never see another post
from Satoshi ever again.

2144
01:29:07,785 --> 01:29:09,578
Three days after
joining the forum,

2145
01:29:09,620 --> 01:29:13,124
Peter Todd finishes
Satoshi's sentence,

2146
01:29:13,207 --> 01:29:14,959
and then disappears.

2147
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:16,669
Alongside Satoshi.

2148
01:29:16,752 --> 01:29:18,295
♪♪

2149
01:29:18,337 --> 01:29:19,630
Here's what I think
might have happened.

2150
01:29:19,714 --> 01:29:23,217
He created this new account.

2151
01:29:23,300 --> 01:29:24,844
Then, a couple days later,
you know,

2152
01:29:25,219 --> 01:29:28,180
writes the Satoshi post,
logs out...

2153
01:29:29,390 --> 01:29:31,142
logs back in,
but doesn't log back in

2154
01:29:31,225 --> 01:29:32,768
with the correct account.

2155
01:29:32,810 --> 01:29:35,980
And he posts as Peter Todd
instead of Satoshi.

2156
01:29:36,022 --> 01:29:39,150
And then, makes a couple
more posts as Satoshi

2157
01:29:39,233 --> 01:29:40,484
'cause he doesn't want it
to look like

2158
01:29:40,568 --> 01:29:41,902
it's directly related to this.

2159
01:29:41,986 --> 01:29:44,947
And Peter Todd just evaporates
for two fucking years.

2160
01:29:46,532 --> 01:29:48,367
editor David (on phone):
That's, that's insane.

2161
01:29:48,451 --> 01:29:49,827
It's insane.

2162
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:52,830
It was just so suspicious,

2163
01:29:52,872 --> 01:29:56,167
I wanted Peter to explain
how this was possible.

2164
01:29:56,208 --> 01:29:57,877
Satoshi's last post was, like,

2165
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,588
one week after I signed up
for Bitcoin Talk.

2166
01:30:00,963 --> 01:30:02,298
But...

2167
01:30:02,590 --> 01:30:04,467
Hoback:
Right. And then,
you disappeared.

2168
01:30:04,884 --> 01:30:08,179
Yeah, then I disappeared.
(laughs)

2169
01:30:10,473 --> 01:30:13,017
And Satoshi disappeared
at the same time.

2170
01:30:13,100 --> 01:30:13,976
Todd:
Yeah.

2171
01:30:14,351 --> 01:30:16,687
I really should've paid more
attention to Bitcoin early on,

2172
01:30:16,771 --> 01:30:18,564
but, you know,
I had other stuff to do.

2173
01:30:18,647 --> 01:30:22,026
Y-You corrected Satoshi,
but it kind of looks more like

2174
01:30:22,109 --> 01:30:25,112
you were continuing
a thought of Satoshi.

2175
01:30:25,196 --> 01:30:28,032
Well, Satoshi made
a little brain fart on, like,

2176
01:30:28,115 --> 01:30:30,034
how exactly transactions work,

2177
01:30:30,117 --> 01:30:32,995
and I corrected him
on that very boring thing.

2178
01:30:33,204 --> 01:30:35,873
Hoback:
Why didn't you delete
the 2010 post?

2179
01:30:35,956 --> 01:30:37,208
Why would I?

2180
01:30:37,625 --> 01:30:38,751
Hoback:
Well,

2181
01:30:39,043 --> 01:30:42,004
I mean, 'cause it,
it just makes you look like

2182
01:30:42,046 --> 01:30:45,549
you had these deep insights
into Bitcoin at the time and--

2183
01:30:45,591 --> 01:30:47,551
Well, yeah.
I'm Satoshi Nakamoto.

2184
01:30:47,635 --> 01:30:49,720
Hoback:
I mean,

2185
01:30:49,762 --> 01:30:52,139
it's sort of the last thing
you'd expect Satoshi to say.

2186
01:30:52,223 --> 01:30:53,349
Ah, but that's it.

2187
01:30:53,432 --> 01:30:54,725
That's like
the meta level, right?

2188
01:30:54,767 --> 01:30:57,311
Because I know you would
expect Satoshi Nakamoto

2189
01:30:57,395 --> 01:30:58,938
to delete the post.
You just said,

2190
01:30:59,021 --> 01:31:01,190
"Why didn't Satoshi Nakamoto
delete the post?"

2191
01:31:01,232 --> 01:31:04,068
-The post that was corrected?
-Yeah, yeah,
the correction post.

2192
01:31:04,151 --> 01:31:06,320
Right? But then,
I did the next level of meta

2193
01:31:06,404 --> 01:31:09,824
and then didn't delete the post
to go throw off people like you.

2194
01:31:10,825 --> 01:31:12,576
Hoback:
Peter sure remembered this post

2195
01:31:12,660 --> 01:31:15,204
he'd made 13 years ago
awfully well.

2196
01:31:16,288 --> 01:31:17,540
Yeah...

2197
01:31:17,581 --> 01:31:19,834
I don't know.
You're-You're feeding him, like,

2198
01:31:19,917 --> 01:31:23,045
-footage that's just gonna be--
-Yeah. Oh, it's gonna be great.

2199
01:31:23,629 --> 01:31:25,131
Hoback:
Peter Todd's strategy,

2200
01:31:25,214 --> 01:31:27,883
his game theory to
throw people off the trail...

2201
01:31:27,925 --> 01:31:30,886
-Oh, no, I am Satoshi.
I'm Satoshi Nakamoto.
-(Hoback laughs)

2202
01:31:30,970 --> 01:31:32,096
Hoback:
...was so effective,

2203
01:31:32,179 --> 01:31:33,806
I hadn't really
considered him a suspect.

2204
01:31:34,265 --> 01:31:36,684
In fact, just about
no one had considered him.

2205
01:31:36,767 --> 01:31:39,353
So, you don't think it's Peter?
You-- No way?

2206
01:31:39,437 --> 01:31:42,231
Peter's ruled out
way, way early on.

2207
01:31:42,273 --> 01:31:43,607
Hoback:
And even insinuating this

2208
01:31:43,649 --> 01:31:45,401
would get you laughed
off the forums.

2209
01:31:45,484 --> 01:31:47,695
Peter Todd was just
a little kid back then.

2210
01:31:47,778 --> 01:31:49,739
Hoback:
So, was it possible that

2211
01:31:49,822 --> 01:31:52,450
Peter Todd could be Satoshi?

2212
01:31:52,533 --> 01:31:54,535
When you start to, like,
run through all the,

2213
01:31:54,618 --> 01:31:55,745
all the scenarios,

2214
01:31:55,828 --> 01:31:58,664
it checks a lot of boxes.

2215
01:31:58,748 --> 01:31:59,957
Satoshi wrote messages

2216
01:32:00,041 --> 01:32:02,418
like they were
on an academic calendar,

2217
01:32:02,501 --> 01:32:04,295
with more time in the summer.

2218
01:32:04,378 --> 01:32:06,464
I was off getting
a fine arts degree.

2219
01:32:06,547 --> 01:32:09,967
Hoback:
Then, there was the British
or Canadian writing style.

2220
01:32:10,051 --> 01:32:12,678
Todd:
There was something called
the Toronto Caving Group.

2221
01:32:12,762 --> 01:32:16,390
Hoback: In 2001,
when the dude is 15 or 16,

2222
01:32:16,474 --> 01:32:18,851
he is literally already
trying to figure out

2223
01:32:18,934 --> 01:32:21,437
how to turn Hashcash
into a currency.

2224
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:23,606
After all,
I did try to invent Bitcoin.

2225
01:32:23,647 --> 01:32:25,900
And I'm not bitter that
Satoshi got there first.

2226
01:32:25,983 --> 01:32:28,736
You know, when I first
saw the Bitcoin code,

2227
01:32:28,819 --> 01:32:31,238
I was like, this is not
a professional programmer.

2228
01:32:31,322 --> 01:32:32,948
Hoback:
Which Peter Todd wasn't.

2229
01:32:33,032 --> 01:32:35,785
Experienced C++ coders
basically confirmed

2230
01:32:35,826 --> 01:32:37,620
that it could've been
written by either of you.

2231
01:32:37,661 --> 01:32:41,707
-So, do you think
I can write in C++?
-Hoback: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

2232
01:32:41,791 --> 01:32:44,418
Mm. That doesn't sound
like you've done your research.

2233
01:32:44,502 --> 01:32:45,795
-(Todd laughs)
-Yeah.

2234
01:32:46,128 --> 01:32:48,923
Hoback:
But, that old resume he tried
to scrub from the internet

2235
01:32:49,006 --> 01:32:52,510
showed that he'd coded
a system in C++ from scratch.

2236
01:32:52,927 --> 01:32:54,678
Why bother lying about this?

2237
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:56,806
So, he's done a bit of,
bit of research. That's good.

2238
01:32:56,847 --> 01:32:59,517
Hoback:
And if you were like, 22
when you created Bitcoin,

2239
01:32:59,558 --> 01:33:02,478
imagine what it would do
to your psyche.

2240
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:04,021
He's the contrarian
of contrarians.

2241
01:33:04,105 --> 01:33:06,691
I-I think people often,
often miss this nuance.

2242
01:33:06,774 --> 01:33:08,025
He always wants
to make sure he can prove

2243
01:33:08,067 --> 01:33:09,527
that he's the smartest guy
in the room.

2244
01:33:09,860 --> 01:33:11,153
Hoback:
Well, I think if it was a team,

2245
01:33:11,195 --> 01:33:12,697
it wouldn't have been
more than two people.

2246
01:33:12,780 --> 01:33:15,866
Didn't need even two people.
One could have written it.

2247
01:33:15,908 --> 01:33:18,452
Hoback:
But, who could Satoshi
trust with Bitcoin's future?

2248
01:33:18,536 --> 01:33:20,246
Adam Back
would keep the secret.

2249
01:33:20,579 --> 01:33:23,499
Hoback:
Maybe the first guy
that emailed back in 2008.

2250
01:33:23,541 --> 01:33:25,710
Or it could be
somebody younger.

2251
01:33:25,793 --> 01:33:27,044
Hoback:
The guy who, you know,

2252
01:33:27,086 --> 01:33:29,004
has sort of considered you
like a son.

2253
01:33:29,046 --> 01:33:30,172
Remind me again,
what's your source

2254
01:33:30,256 --> 01:33:31,799
for the "considered you
like a son" thing?

2255
01:33:31,882 --> 01:33:34,135
Hoback:
That was with you last time.

2256
01:33:34,218 --> 01:33:35,511
-Back: What?
-No.

2257
01:33:35,553 --> 01:33:37,555
I think he thinks
of you like a son.

2258
01:33:37,638 --> 01:33:38,848
A son. Yeah.

2259
01:33:38,931 --> 01:33:41,225
-(crosstalk)
-No, sorry. No, no offense,

2260
01:33:41,267 --> 01:33:43,144
I'm much closer
to Greg Maxwell than you.

2261
01:33:43,227 --> 01:33:44,687
Much closer.

2262
01:33:44,770 --> 01:33:48,441
Hoback:
Greg Maxwell, who co-founds
Blockstream with Adam Back.

2263
01:33:48,524 --> 01:33:49,734
This loose coupling
isn't inherent.

2264
01:33:49,775 --> 01:33:51,986
You can sort of pick
your degree of looseness.

2265
01:33:52,069 --> 01:33:53,487
Hoback:
Keeping Peter at
arm's length...

2266
01:33:53,571 --> 01:33:55,614
We talked about saying it
would actually be much better

2267
01:33:55,698 --> 01:33:57,199
if I didn't work
for Blockstream.

2268
01:33:57,283 --> 01:34:00,077
Hoback:
...in order to solve
Bitcoin's technical problems,

2269
01:34:00,161 --> 01:34:01,954
which they couldn't
do anonymously.

2270
01:34:02,038 --> 01:34:05,124
You need to give people space to
actually work on these issues.

2271
01:34:05,207 --> 01:34:07,043
Hoback:
But, they would need cover...

2272
01:34:07,084 --> 01:34:08,836
O'Leary:
Whoever had access
to Satoshi's email

2273
01:34:08,919 --> 01:34:11,714
was somewhat aligned
with Blockstream.

2274
01:34:11,797 --> 01:34:13,549
Hoback:
...to push back against Gavin.

2275
01:34:13,632 --> 01:34:15,384
We'll definitely
need to increase

2276
01:34:15,468 --> 01:34:16,927
the maximum block size.

2277
01:34:16,969 --> 01:34:18,262
That doesn't mean
you're the leader.

2278
01:34:18,304 --> 01:34:20,473
That just means you're the guy
who answers questions.

2279
01:34:20,556 --> 01:34:23,350
Hoback:
And here's the big one.

2280
01:34:23,434 --> 01:34:27,313
What if the real reason
for using the name Satoshi,

2281
01:34:27,396 --> 01:34:28,898
for the anonymity,

2282
01:34:28,939 --> 01:34:31,984
was so that people
could take Bitcoin seriously?

2283
01:34:32,485 --> 01:34:34,945
So they could believe
that it must have been created

2284
01:34:35,029 --> 01:34:37,698
by one of these
famous cryptographers,

2285
01:34:38,908 --> 01:34:41,744
and not some kid
still in school?

2286
01:34:43,037 --> 01:34:46,040
-So, here's what
I think happened.
-Todd: Hm?

2287
01:34:46,123 --> 01:34:48,626
-Possibly. Okay?
-Todd: Possibly.

2288
01:34:48,667 --> 01:34:51,253
I think that John Dillon...

2289
01:34:51,337 --> 01:34:52,338
(Todd snickers)

2290
01:34:52,421 --> 01:34:55,633
...was created
so that you would have an excuse

2291
01:34:55,674 --> 01:34:58,094
-to make replace-by-fee.
-(Todd laughing)

2292
01:34:58,177 --> 01:35:00,721
A concept which you had
envisioned years earlier,

2293
01:35:00,805 --> 01:35:04,100
-but you needed some kind
of cover in order to make.
-(laughing harder)

2294
01:35:04,141 --> 01:35:07,228
And you also needed some cover
for that 2010 post.

2295
01:35:07,311 --> 01:35:09,980
Todd:
(laughing) 2010 post? Please.

2296
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:12,316
Yeah, because I was Satoshi?

2297
01:35:12,358 --> 01:35:13,818
Hoback:
I mean, yeah.

2298
01:35:13,901 --> 01:35:16,237
You know, you're very concerned
about all the privacy stuff.

2299
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:18,280
-(laughing)
-So, you reach out
to your old buddy Adam Back.

2300
01:35:18,322 --> 01:35:19,865
You say, we need to do
something about this,

2301
01:35:19,949 --> 01:35:21,909
but we need to pay the devs.

2302
01:35:21,992 --> 01:35:23,536
But you can't join Blockstream

2303
01:35:23,619 --> 01:35:26,080
-because it would look
too, uh, suspicious.
-(laughing harder)

2304
01:35:26,163 --> 01:35:29,041
-So, you don't.
-(sighs) I will admit,
you're pretty creative.

2305
01:35:29,125 --> 01:35:31,168
You come up with
some crazy theories.

2306
01:35:31,252 --> 01:35:32,420
It's ludicrous,

2307
01:35:32,503 --> 01:35:34,964
but it's the sort of theory
someone who spends their time

2308
01:35:35,047 --> 01:35:36,924
as a documentary journalist
would come up with.

2309
01:35:37,007 --> 01:35:38,926
So yeah, yeah. I'll say,
of course I'm Satoshi,

2310
01:35:39,009 --> 01:35:40,052
and I'm Craig Wright.

2311
01:35:40,136 --> 01:35:42,012
And yes,
I was definitely covering

2312
01:35:42,054 --> 01:35:43,848
that little bit about,
you know, fees

2313
01:35:43,931 --> 01:35:45,683
to go pretend to be Satoshi.

2314
01:35:45,766 --> 01:35:48,144
Or not Satoshi,
one or the other. (snickers)

2315
01:35:48,185 --> 01:35:51,856
Hoback:
Well, why make up
the whole John Dillon thing?

2316
01:35:51,939 --> 01:35:54,525
-Well, like I said,
I'm not John Dillon.
-Hoback: Okay.

2317
01:35:54,567 --> 01:35:57,069
Sorry. I'm not John Dillon.
I don't know who that is.

2318
01:35:57,153 --> 01:35:58,946
I'll warn you.
This is gonna be very funny

2319
01:35:59,030 --> 01:36:00,865
when you put this
into the documentary

2320
01:36:00,948 --> 01:36:02,616
and a bunch
of Bitcoiners watch it.

2321
01:36:02,700 --> 01:36:05,077
-Back: I think--
-Hoback: Well, I don't think
they would be very happy

2322
01:36:05,161 --> 01:36:06,996
with this conclusion because
you're pretty controversial

2323
01:36:07,079 --> 01:36:08,247
within the community
at this point.

2324
01:36:08,330 --> 01:36:10,708
No, I-I suspect a lot
of them will be very happy

2325
01:36:10,791 --> 01:36:12,043
if you go this route.

2326
01:36:12,084 --> 01:36:14,712
'Cause it's gonna be like
yet another example

2327
01:36:14,754 --> 01:36:17,089
of journalists
really missing the point,

2328
01:36:17,173 --> 01:36:18,424
in a way that's very funny.

2329
01:36:18,507 --> 01:36:19,967
Hoback:
What is the point?

2330
01:36:20,051 --> 01:36:22,428
The point is just to make
Bitcoin the global currency.

2331
01:36:22,511 --> 01:36:25,514
And people like you
being distracted by nonsense

2332
01:36:25,556 --> 01:36:27,641
can potentially
do good on that.

2333
01:36:27,725 --> 01:36:29,852
(somber music playing)

2334
01:36:32,355 --> 01:36:36,442
Hoback:
And it seemed this plan
was coming to life.

2335
01:36:36,525 --> 01:36:38,819
(applause)

2336
01:36:38,903 --> 01:36:40,029
With Wall Street's involvement

2337
01:36:40,112 --> 01:36:41,947
bringing Bitcoin
to new heights...

2338
01:36:47,912 --> 01:36:50,915
Hoback:
El Salvador found
itself in the black.

2339
01:36:50,956 --> 01:36:53,584
Suddenly, presidents
were taking Samson's calls.

2340
01:36:53,667 --> 01:36:55,002
(group speaking Spanish)

2341
01:36:55,086 --> 01:36:57,254
And Argentina's
newly elected president

2342
01:36:57,338 --> 01:36:59,924
shut down its central bank
and allowed people

2343
01:37:00,007 --> 01:37:02,051
to use Bitcoin
however they wanted.

2344
01:37:02,134 --> 01:37:04,929
Bitcoin was advancing
as a currency,

2345
01:37:04,970 --> 01:37:08,265
even if America throttled
its use as digital cash.

2346
01:37:09,100 --> 01:37:12,645
Maybe it wasn't the design that
made Bitcoin so unstoppable.

2347
01:37:13,187 --> 01:37:15,398
Maybe it was human nature.

2348
01:37:15,481 --> 01:37:17,608
Or just plain old greed.

2349
01:37:18,651 --> 01:37:20,194
Even Dr. Doom

2350
01:37:20,277 --> 01:37:22,988
launched his own
blockchain-based token.

2351
01:37:24,490 --> 01:37:27,368
Craig Wright was proven
to be a fraud in court,

2352
01:37:27,451 --> 01:37:29,829
but it required Adam
to finally release

2353
01:37:29,912 --> 01:37:31,789
his emails with Satoshi.

2354
01:37:31,872 --> 01:37:33,624
He had been telling the truth.

2355
01:37:33,708 --> 01:37:36,794
And as more of Satoshi's
conversations came to light,

2356
01:37:36,877 --> 01:37:39,130
so did the genius,

2357
01:37:39,213 --> 01:37:42,466
the struggles,
and the immaturity.

2358
01:37:43,634 --> 01:37:45,302
But, what about the stash?

2359
01:37:45,386 --> 01:37:47,471
Well, you know my--
I-I mean, I don't know for sure,

2360
01:37:47,555 --> 01:37:49,056
but, like, my suspicion is

2361
01:37:49,140 --> 01:37:52,101
Satoshi did, in fact, go destroy
all of Satoshi's ability

2362
01:37:52,184 --> 01:37:53,894
to prove who they were.

2363
01:37:54,270 --> 01:37:55,980
Hoback:
But, they hadn't
burned the coins.

2364
01:37:56,063 --> 01:37:57,606
(explosion blasts)

2365
01:37:57,690 --> 01:38:00,693
Or in a way, had they?

2366
01:38:00,776 --> 01:38:02,737
A few months after
confronting Peter,

2367
01:38:02,820 --> 01:38:04,613
I came across
this old chat log,

2368
01:38:04,655 --> 01:38:07,324
that someone probably
shouldn't have recorded,

2369
01:38:07,408 --> 01:38:08,701
where Peter says,

2370
01:38:08,784 --> 01:38:10,911
"I'm probably
the world-leading expert

2371
01:38:10,995 --> 01:38:12,955
"on how to sacrifice
your Bitcoins.

2372
01:38:13,039 --> 01:38:15,708
"And I've done exactly
one such sacrifice,

2373
01:38:15,791 --> 01:38:18,169
and I did it by hand."

2374
01:38:18,252 --> 01:38:19,295
♪♪

2375
01:38:19,378 --> 01:38:22,923
It was hard not to read
this as an admission.

2376
01:38:23,758 --> 01:38:25,342
Like Peter wanted
his inner circle

2377
01:38:25,384 --> 01:38:29,305
to trust that he had, in fact,
sacrificed the Bitcoins,

2378
01:38:29,722 --> 01:38:31,974
and destroyed all access.

2379
01:38:32,725 --> 01:38:34,935
But, this wasn't proof.

2380
01:38:35,811 --> 01:38:37,855
It's Bitcoin.
Don't trust, verify.

2381
01:38:37,897 --> 01:38:40,149
And sometimes,
you can't verify.

2382
01:38:41,942 --> 01:38:43,361
Back:
Mm-hmm.

2383
01:38:43,444 --> 01:38:45,696
Hoback: And if Peter Todd
and his friends at Blockstream

2384
01:38:45,738 --> 01:38:48,449
were, in fact, behind Bitcoin,

2385
01:38:48,699 --> 01:38:51,118
would he remain an idealist?

2386
01:38:51,202 --> 01:38:52,995
Or was he still holding on

2387
01:38:53,037 --> 01:38:55,289
to the keys to
the world's fortune?

2388
01:38:56,457 --> 01:38:58,751
Just in case.

2389
01:38:59,794 --> 01:39:03,047
(dramatic music playing)

2390
01:39:16,852 --> 01:39:20,398
♪♪