1 00:00:18,477 --> 00:00:21,522 [foreboding music] 2 00:00:21,522 --> 00:00:25,776 ♪ ♪ 3 00:00:43,293 --> 00:00:45,045 [heavy breathing] 4 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,363 [dramatic music] 5 00:01:53,363 --> 00:02:00,370 ♪ ♪ 6 00:02:31,401 --> 00:02:33,236 AINSWORTH: There are a lot of things to like 7 00:02:33,236 --> 00:02:35,697 about being a detective. 8 00:02:35,697 --> 00:02:38,909 You don't go see the same thing every day. 9 00:02:38,909 --> 00:02:41,703 When my pager would go off at 3 o'clock in the morning, 10 00:02:41,703 --> 00:02:45,082 it wasn't like, oh, crap, now I got to go do something. 11 00:02:45,082 --> 00:02:47,834 It would be, I'm going to go see something 12 00:02:47,834 --> 00:02:51,129 that most people will never see in their entire lives. 13 00:02:51,129 --> 00:02:52,881 And not only that, I'm responsible 14 00:02:52,881 --> 00:02:54,674 for figuring out what happened. 15 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,723 I've been a police officer for just about 44 years, 16 00:03:01,723 --> 00:03:05,143 and I'm currently working as a consultant 17 00:03:05,143 --> 00:03:10,315 for cold case homicides and unidentified human remains. 18 00:03:10,315 --> 00:03:14,903 I was a detective for about 31 and 1/2 years. 19 00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:18,115 I worked on several high profile cases. 20 00:03:18,115 --> 00:03:20,617 I consulted for the DA's office in Boulder. 21 00:03:20,617 --> 00:03:23,453 I consulted on the JonBenét Ramsey case 22 00:03:23,453 --> 00:03:25,705 in 1996, 1997. 23 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,460 I worked the Betty Lee Jones homicide 24 00:03:30,460 --> 00:03:35,841 from 1970 for 16 years. 25 00:03:35,841 --> 00:03:39,636 I worked on the Boulder Jane Doe case from 1954 26 00:03:39,636 --> 00:03:45,142 where she was found dumped near Boulder Creek. 27 00:03:45,142 --> 00:03:46,893 Solved that one. 28 00:03:46,893 --> 00:03:50,939 I worked probably over 2,400 deaths in my career. 29 00:03:55,902 --> 00:03:58,155 I've only had one unsolved homicide. 30 00:03:58,155 --> 00:04:01,825 There's just all kinds of different fascinating cases, 31 00:04:01,825 --> 00:04:03,994 and it's a giant puzzle. 32 00:04:03,994 --> 00:04:08,457 So the bigger the case, the more serious the case, 33 00:04:08,457 --> 00:04:10,333 the bigger the puzzle becomes. 34 00:04:10,333 --> 00:04:14,463 And that was the challenge. I just loved the challenge. 35 00:04:14,463 --> 00:04:16,506 So a case that isn't actively worked 36 00:04:16,506 --> 00:04:19,342 and you're out of leads, that would be a cold case. 37 00:04:19,342 --> 00:04:21,386 And it could be after three months. 38 00:04:21,386 --> 00:04:23,221 It could be after a year. 39 00:04:23,221 --> 00:04:25,432 It could be after five years. 40 00:04:25,432 --> 00:04:28,226 I would go back into cold cases and look at them 41 00:04:28,226 --> 00:04:31,646 and go, OK, what can I do with this case 42 00:04:31,646 --> 00:04:33,899 to move it forward that wasn't done back then? 43 00:04:33,899 --> 00:04:35,484 - Authorities in Hamilton County 44 00:04:35,484 --> 00:04:38,153 are renewing efforts to identify the remains of more 45 00:04:38,153 --> 00:04:40,947 than a dozen people found on the former property 46 00:04:40,947 --> 00:04:42,657 of a notorious serial killer. 47 00:04:42,657 --> 00:04:44,618 Investigators believe Herbert Baumeister 48 00:04:44,618 --> 00:04:46,953 killed at least 25 people. 49 00:04:46,953 --> 00:04:48,580 Police have said he-- 50 00:04:48,580 --> 00:04:50,165 AINSWORTH: I had never heard of the Baumeister case 51 00:04:50,165 --> 00:04:52,918 until April of last year, and I got a call 52 00:04:52,918 --> 00:04:54,794 from a friend of mine 53 00:04:54,794 --> 00:04:56,671 who is a retired LAPD homicide detective. 54 00:04:56,671 --> 00:04:58,381 And he says, hey, do you know who Herb Baumeister is? 55 00:04:58,381 --> 00:05:00,175 And I said, no, I've never heard of him. 56 00:05:00,175 --> 00:05:02,302 He goes, he's a serial killer in Indiana. 57 00:05:02,302 --> 00:05:03,386 Look him up. 58 00:05:03,386 --> 00:05:04,971 So I said, OK, well, what's up? 59 00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:07,974 He goes, I want you to call this guy Jeff Jellison. 60 00:05:07,974 --> 00:05:12,103 He's a coroner out there in Hamilton County, 61 00:05:12,103 --> 00:05:15,899 and he is trying to identify all the victims of this guy. 62 00:05:15,899 --> 00:05:17,275 And so I got interested, and I started 63 00:05:17,275 --> 00:05:18,735 reading about Baumeister. 64 00:05:18,735 --> 00:05:22,572 [dramatic music] 65 00:05:22,572 --> 00:05:24,324 The more I read, the more I knew 66 00:05:24,324 --> 00:05:25,742 that we would be able to help him 67 00:05:25,742 --> 00:05:27,494 start identifying these people 68 00:05:27,494 --> 00:05:29,287 and help him to fulfill his mission. 69 00:05:29,287 --> 00:05:33,458 - My job is to figure out how these guys died, 70 00:05:33,458 --> 00:05:37,212 and there's a lot of questions. 71 00:05:37,212 --> 00:05:38,630 Steve! 72 00:05:38,630 --> 00:05:40,757 - What is going on, man? - How are you, buddy? 73 00:05:40,757 --> 00:05:43,593 Steve Ainsworth is-- in my opinion, 74 00:05:43,593 --> 00:05:47,681 he's the Michael Jordan of cold case investigators. 75 00:05:47,681 --> 00:05:50,141 He's been there with homicide investigations. 76 00:05:50,141 --> 00:05:51,810 He's been there with 77 00:05:51,810 --> 00:05:54,062 unidentified human remains cases. 78 00:05:54,062 --> 00:05:56,731 He's walked this path far ahead of me. 79 00:05:56,731 --> 00:05:59,234 - Jeff is one of those guys that does the right thing 80 00:05:59,234 --> 00:06:00,527 for the right reason. 81 00:06:00,527 --> 00:06:04,072 I believe that we gave up with this investigation. 82 00:06:04,072 --> 00:06:05,824 The criminal investigation appeared 83 00:06:05,824 --> 00:06:10,161 to have ended when Herb Baumeister killed himself. 84 00:06:10,161 --> 00:06:12,539 We didn't finish our job. 85 00:06:12,539 --> 00:06:14,666 - We think alike. We have the same philosophy. 86 00:06:14,666 --> 00:06:16,293 We have the same morals. 87 00:06:16,293 --> 00:06:18,169 We have the same sense of right and wrong. 88 00:06:18,169 --> 00:06:19,921 JELLISON: Steve Ainsworth assists 89 00:06:19,921 --> 00:06:23,967 law enforcement agencies with cold case investigations. 90 00:06:23,967 --> 00:06:27,095 He's not the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department. 91 00:06:27,095 --> 00:06:29,472 He's not the Hamilton County Coroner's office. 92 00:06:29,472 --> 00:06:32,767 He can look at this case with some very clear eyes. 93 00:06:32,767 --> 00:06:34,477 And I'll say this. 94 00:06:34,477 --> 00:06:37,480 If there's somebody else out there that had been involved 95 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,442 and Steve Ainsworth's dogging them, 96 00:06:40,442 --> 00:06:45,405 they'd better watch out because he'll catch up with them. 97 00:06:55,582 --> 00:06:57,334 AINSWORTH: These are the crime scene photos 98 00:06:57,334 --> 00:06:59,461 that were taken in 1996 by 99 00:06:59,461 --> 00:07:02,422 the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office during the search. 100 00:07:02,422 --> 00:07:05,300 This looks like a ligature of some kind. 101 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:07,510 It's kind of just in the vegetation. 102 00:07:07,510 --> 00:07:11,264 Oh, that one looks like a mandible. 103 00:07:11,264 --> 00:07:15,810 It's not really clear, but it looks like a mandible 104 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:19,022 just laying in the woods on a piece of wood. 105 00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:23,151 We've got vertebrae there. 106 00:07:23,151 --> 00:07:29,115 We've got ribs, a femur, humerus. 107 00:07:29,115 --> 00:07:31,993 I have never seen a case 108 00:07:31,993 --> 00:07:35,372 with 10,000 bone fragments and teeth. 109 00:07:36,956 --> 00:07:40,126 It's almost overwhelming. 110 00:07:40,126 --> 00:07:43,171 So for Jeff to take that on is amazing. 111 00:07:49,678 --> 00:07:53,431 [chatter] 112 00:07:53,431 --> 00:07:56,559 So, Jeff, I've been looking into this case. 113 00:07:56,559 --> 00:07:59,604 I went through all the Hamilton County Sheriff reports. 114 00:07:59,604 --> 00:08:01,731 I've gone through transcripts, and I've gone through 115 00:08:01,731 --> 00:08:03,316 crime scene photos, and I've got-- 116 00:08:03,316 --> 00:08:05,026 I think I've got some good information for you. 117 00:08:05,026 --> 00:08:06,528 - Well, I'm interested in hearing what you got, Steve. 118 00:08:06,528 --> 00:08:08,238 - Let's take a look at it here. 119 00:08:08,238 --> 00:08:12,242 This is a transcript of a conversation 120 00:08:12,242 --> 00:08:16,955 that Baumeister's business attorney, John Egloff, 121 00:08:16,955 --> 00:08:18,998 a phone call that he made 122 00:08:18,998 --> 00:08:20,667 to the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office. 123 00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:23,628 This phone call was made two days after 124 00:08:23,628 --> 00:08:26,089 Herb Baumeister was found dead in Canada. 125 00:08:26,089 --> 00:08:27,215 - OK. 126 00:08:27,215 --> 00:08:29,426 - And he says that Herb called him, 127 00:08:29,426 --> 00:08:33,096 and he was, like, in a panic. 128 00:08:35,390 --> 00:08:39,644 I got a call from Herb Baumeister last November 29, 129 00:08:39,644 --> 00:08:41,730 and he started out the conversation 130 00:08:41,730 --> 00:08:44,733 by telling me that five minutes after he hung up, 131 00:08:44,733 --> 00:08:46,693 he wouldn't be around anymore. 132 00:08:46,693 --> 00:08:48,695 And he went on to tell me that there would 133 00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:51,364 be a note for his wife behind a picture of their kids 134 00:08:51,364 --> 00:08:55,702 in the den and that I wasn't supposed to call her 135 00:08:55,702 --> 00:08:59,164 until later that evening, apparently to give him time 136 00:08:59,164 --> 00:09:00,874 to do whatever he was going to do. 137 00:09:00,874 --> 00:09:03,501 I interpreted this as suicide. 138 00:09:03,501 --> 00:09:05,795 He said, "Well, the businesses are failing. 139 00:09:05,795 --> 00:09:07,338 "I can't stand to watch them being 140 00:09:07,338 --> 00:09:09,466 "taken apart by bankruptcy. 141 00:09:09,466 --> 00:09:11,301 "I have just decided that this is 142 00:09:11,301 --> 00:09:13,678 the best way out for me and my family." 143 00:09:13,678 --> 00:09:17,348 Now, what strikes me about this is that Egloff, 144 00:09:17,348 --> 00:09:18,892 him being an officer of the court 145 00:09:18,892 --> 00:09:20,268 but him being Baumeister's attorney-- 146 00:09:20,268 --> 00:09:21,770 - Yeah. 147 00:09:21,770 --> 00:09:23,646 - he's not going to make, like, a frivolous phone call 148 00:09:23,646 --> 00:09:25,565 to report something. 149 00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:28,026 So there's no questioning that this is legitimate. 150 00:09:28,026 --> 00:09:29,986 I mean, this is bulletproof, basically. 151 00:09:29,986 --> 00:09:32,405 And I guess this is the part that is a result of his death 152 00:09:32,405 --> 00:09:35,617 that kind of becomes relevant that I wanted to pass along. 153 00:09:35,617 --> 00:09:36,743 This is the attorney talking. 154 00:09:36,743 --> 00:09:38,870 He said that, oh, by the way. 155 00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:40,538 He said that he had gotten involved 156 00:09:40,538 --> 00:09:44,459 with somebody named Mark Goodyear, and he spells a name. 157 00:09:48,046 --> 00:09:52,050 And he said, this guy was a really bad dude. 158 00:09:52,050 --> 00:09:54,010 He said, I woke up one night, 159 00:09:54,010 --> 00:09:57,263 and this guy was trying to strangle me. 160 00:09:57,263 --> 00:09:59,265 And he's been kind of stalking me, 161 00:09:59,265 --> 00:10:03,853 and I hope that he doesn't come after my family after I'm gone. 162 00:10:03,853 --> 00:10:05,563 And there is some more information 163 00:10:05,563 --> 00:10:08,942 about this guy above the lockers in my west side store. 164 00:10:08,942 --> 00:10:13,238 So none of that-- none of that was ever found. 165 00:10:13,238 --> 00:10:15,615 The note to his wife, whatever was above 166 00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:17,450 the lockers in the west side store, 167 00:10:17,450 --> 00:10:19,118 none of that's ever been found. 168 00:10:19,118 --> 00:10:23,748 - I think Baumeister is saying, watch this guy, you know? 169 00:10:23,748 --> 00:10:25,500 I'm not going to be around anymore. 170 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:27,544 It's obvious he was planning his death. 171 00:10:27,544 --> 00:10:28,962 - Mm-hmm. 172 00:10:28,962 --> 00:10:31,089 For Baumeister to make this panicked call out 173 00:10:31,089 --> 00:10:32,924 of the middle of nowhere and clearly indicate 174 00:10:32,924 --> 00:10:35,009 that he's going to commit suicide, 175 00:10:35,009 --> 00:10:37,011 something had to have changed. 176 00:10:37,011 --> 00:10:38,471 Was it the businesses? 177 00:10:38,471 --> 00:10:40,014 No, because they'd been failing for a while. 178 00:10:40,014 --> 00:10:44,018 The only other thing had to have been Goodyear. 179 00:10:44,018 --> 00:10:46,729 Obviously, their relationship is much more than we ever 180 00:10:46,729 --> 00:10:48,690 thought at the very beginning. 181 00:10:48,690 --> 00:10:52,068 I think that Mark Goodyear has become a threat to him. 182 00:10:52,068 --> 00:10:55,488 I wonder if Goodyear knows about all of these murders, 183 00:10:55,488 --> 00:10:58,199 and this is the only way out of it. 184 00:10:58,199 --> 00:11:01,077 Maybe Baumeister is thinking, 185 00:11:01,077 --> 00:11:03,913 if I'm dead and the police start finding the bodies 186 00:11:03,913 --> 00:11:06,082 at the farm, as they were going to do, 187 00:11:06,082 --> 00:11:09,335 Goodyear would go down for it because of this letter 188 00:11:09,335 --> 00:11:11,170 and because of this phone call to his attorney. 189 00:11:11,170 --> 00:11:14,716 I mean, that's a possibility. 190 00:11:14,716 --> 00:11:16,467 I mean, the more we get into it, the more I'm going, 191 00:11:16,467 --> 00:11:18,595 what is the deal with this guy? 192 00:11:18,595 --> 00:11:23,850 - It really brings to question Goodyear's relationship 193 00:11:23,850 --> 00:11:26,269 with Herb Baumeister. 194 00:11:26,269 --> 00:11:29,063 He just didn't get away from him one time 195 00:11:29,063 --> 00:11:31,399 and then never go back. 196 00:11:31,399 --> 00:11:35,528 Goodyear was more than just a survivor. 197 00:11:42,368 --> 00:11:45,204 [birds chirping] 198 00:11:56,132 --> 00:11:58,885 WILLIAMS: My dad disappearing obviously had an effect on me, 199 00:11:58,885 --> 00:12:00,762 and there is some trauma there. 200 00:12:00,762 --> 00:12:03,306 I mean, I've gone to my fair share of therapists 201 00:12:03,306 --> 00:12:05,892 over and over the years. 202 00:12:05,892 --> 00:12:07,936 According to the Indiana State Police and the FBI, 203 00:12:07,936 --> 00:12:11,564 my father is still a missing person. 204 00:12:11,564 --> 00:12:13,650 Publicly, it has been stated several times that my father 205 00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:15,818 is most likely a victim of Herb Baumeister, 206 00:12:15,818 --> 00:12:17,779 but we have not received any definitive proof 207 00:12:17,779 --> 00:12:22,742 or remains as a result of the investigation. 208 00:12:22,742 --> 00:12:24,994 There is not a day that goes past 209 00:12:24,994 --> 00:12:29,624 that I don't wish I could talk to my dad. 210 00:12:29,624 --> 00:12:33,169 This is one of those pictures that used to be in a thing 211 00:12:33,169 --> 00:12:36,130 at my grandmother's house, lost for a really long time, 212 00:12:36,130 --> 00:12:40,593 and then my cousin found it and gave it back to me. 213 00:12:40,593 --> 00:12:42,053 That's how he always smiled. 214 00:12:42,053 --> 00:12:45,431 I mean, this is how he was. 215 00:12:45,431 --> 00:12:49,477 Dad was about 5'2", 5'3", big, huge, cheesy smile. 216 00:12:49,477 --> 00:12:52,313 He wore round glasses sometimes. 217 00:12:52,313 --> 00:12:55,608 Very, very loud laugh, the kind you hear 218 00:12:55,608 --> 00:12:59,070 across the room and think it's obnoxious, actually. 219 00:12:59,070 --> 00:13:00,947 Dad was very much into construction. 220 00:13:00,947 --> 00:13:03,950 He had done major, major projects, 221 00:13:03,950 --> 00:13:06,744 like the White River Canal here and the Bank One Tower, 222 00:13:06,744 --> 00:13:09,956 airport expansions-- like, big construction projects. 223 00:13:09,956 --> 00:13:11,833 Later on in life, he was a big, big advocate 224 00:13:11,833 --> 00:13:16,337 for all things LGBTQ rights. 225 00:13:16,337 --> 00:13:20,091 Dad started The Sarj Guide with his partner, Ray, 226 00:13:20,091 --> 00:13:23,636 which was an LGBTQ-friendly bar guide. 227 00:13:26,681 --> 00:13:29,308 And when he and my mom were divorced, 228 00:13:29,308 --> 00:13:32,186 he sat me down and very matter-of-factly explained 229 00:13:32,186 --> 00:13:36,024 to me that he was gay and that Ray was his husband 230 00:13:36,024 --> 00:13:39,444 and that they lived together just like husband and wife. 231 00:13:39,444 --> 00:13:41,863 It was just a huge relief because I think I always knew. 232 00:13:41,863 --> 00:13:46,200 It made me feel better that it made him feel better. 233 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,827 I saw my dad alive for the last time 234 00:13:47,827 --> 00:13:51,080 on my birthday in 1995. 235 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,707 And I remember at the time being mad at him 236 00:13:52,707 --> 00:13:54,917 because he was supposed to spend my birthday with me, 237 00:13:54,917 --> 00:13:57,336 but he was working instead. 238 00:13:57,336 --> 00:13:58,921 But Mom took me to see him. 239 00:13:58,921 --> 00:14:01,049 She was very mad at the time as well about it. 240 00:14:01,049 --> 00:14:02,925 You know, like, I gave him a hug, and he gave me $20 241 00:14:02,925 --> 00:14:04,302 and said, I'll see you next weekend. 242 00:14:04,302 --> 00:14:07,430 And that was about it. 243 00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:11,684 It was very unusual for my dad to disappear mysteriously. 244 00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:16,689 [foreboding music] 245 00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:20,026 So the distinct possibility he'd been murdered 246 00:14:20,026 --> 00:14:25,490 was, you know, there almost from the gate, from the get-go. 247 00:14:25,490 --> 00:14:27,158 I mean, I didn't believe it at first. 248 00:14:27,158 --> 00:14:28,868 I thought, you know, he's just going to show up. 249 00:14:28,868 --> 00:14:31,037 He's on vacation or he went to London or something. 250 00:14:31,037 --> 00:14:33,831 Who knows? 251 00:14:33,831 --> 00:14:36,417 There is no, you know, TV moment where everything 252 00:14:36,417 --> 00:14:39,045 was all tied up in a bow and said, OK, this happened. 253 00:14:39,045 --> 00:14:41,631 There's no closure to any of it. 254 00:14:43,591 --> 00:14:46,928 I wish I could talk to Dad now. 255 00:14:46,928 --> 00:14:50,473 I want to tell him I'm proud of him. 256 00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:57,021 I'm seven years older now than he ever was. 257 00:14:57,021 --> 00:14:58,981 If I saw somebody that was in their early 30s 258 00:14:58,981 --> 00:15:00,775 doing all this right now, 259 00:15:00,775 --> 00:15:03,986 I'd want to tell them how proud-- 260 00:15:03,986 --> 00:15:07,615 and they should keep going. 261 00:15:11,744 --> 00:15:14,163 Whether I wanted to admit it or not, 262 00:15:14,163 --> 00:15:17,542 there's always been just an anxiety in the back of my brain 263 00:15:17,542 --> 00:15:19,335 about it. 264 00:15:19,335 --> 00:15:23,214 And hopefully, we can put Dad's memory to rest. 265 00:15:27,635 --> 00:15:29,053 AINSWORTH: This is kind of interesting. 266 00:15:29,053 --> 00:15:32,807 So this is a transcript of an interview 267 00:15:32,807 --> 00:15:35,184 that was done with a guy by the name of John Fulham. 268 00:15:35,184 --> 00:15:40,648 And he talks about when he was picked up by a guy, 269 00:15:40,648 --> 00:15:42,483 and he took him out to that property. 270 00:15:42,483 --> 00:15:44,944 He identified the property at Fox Hollow. 271 00:15:44,944 --> 00:15:47,613 He stayed the night with him and all that. 272 00:15:52,535 --> 00:15:54,036 INVESTIGATOR: And how long ago was it 273 00:15:54,036 --> 00:15:55,746 you thought you were up at the-- 274 00:15:55,746 --> 00:15:58,916 possibly at the Baumeister property? 275 00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:00,585 [fireworks booming] 276 00:17:21,290 --> 00:17:22,959 AINSWORTH: He describes the house 277 00:17:22,959 --> 00:17:24,210 and the property completely. 278 00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:27,004 I mean, it's definitely the house. 279 00:17:27,004 --> 00:17:29,090 And he describes the guy. 280 00:17:29,090 --> 00:17:31,884 He describes the truck that he was in, 281 00:17:31,884 --> 00:17:34,720 and they showed him photographs of Herb Baumeister. 282 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,433 And this guy who's driving the truck is not Herb Baumeister. 283 00:17:52,154 --> 00:17:54,657 FULHAM: It was the guy-- trying to think. 284 00:17:54,657 --> 00:17:57,743 You know, Michael or Mark. 285 00:17:57,743 --> 00:18:02,123 And he was house-sitting for his boss. 286 00:18:02,123 --> 00:18:06,294 Clearly, it's not Baumeister. It's somebody else. 287 00:18:06,294 --> 00:18:10,590 And the description of the male and of the truck 288 00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:12,300 sounds like Mark Goodyear. 289 00:18:44,415 --> 00:18:46,042 JELLISON: In the early '90s, 290 00:18:46,042 --> 00:18:49,712 Mark Goodyear was in his middle 20s. 291 00:18:49,712 --> 00:18:52,882 And Mark Goodyear, in the initial part 292 00:18:52,882 --> 00:18:55,301 of the investigation, was believed 293 00:18:55,301 --> 00:18:57,011 to be the sole survivor. 294 00:18:57,011 --> 00:18:59,263 - Right, he's played into that for years and years and years 295 00:18:59,263 --> 00:19:00,973 that I was lucky to get away, 296 00:19:00,973 --> 00:19:02,516 and I'm the only one that ever got away from him. 297 00:19:02,516 --> 00:19:05,311 He killed everybody else. That's just not true. 298 00:19:05,311 --> 00:19:10,149 - So now we have somebody else that went to that property 299 00:19:10,149 --> 00:19:12,735 where we suspect all of these people were killed. 300 00:19:12,735 --> 00:19:14,362 - Mm-hmm. 301 00:19:14,362 --> 00:19:18,282 - And now you've got John Fulham saying that 302 00:19:18,282 --> 00:19:20,826 he went to that home with Goodyear. 303 00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:22,119 - Mm-hmm. 304 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,664 - And he was able to walk away as well. 305 00:19:24,664 --> 00:19:26,165 - Right. 306 00:19:26,165 --> 00:19:27,666 JELLISON: That guy would be a wealth of information. 307 00:19:27,666 --> 00:19:29,210 - He would be a wealth of information. 308 00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:30,670 I would love to talk to John Fulham, 309 00:19:30,670 --> 00:19:32,254 but he's no longer with us. 310 00:19:32,254 --> 00:19:33,631 - Right. 311 00:19:33,631 --> 00:19:35,883 - And that's the sad part because there's so much 312 00:19:35,883 --> 00:19:37,885 that could be done with it. 313 00:19:37,885 --> 00:19:41,931 And then we have Mark Goodyear's interview. 314 00:19:41,931 --> 00:19:43,724 Oh, my gosh. 315 00:19:49,855 --> 00:19:51,482 AINSWORTH: This is the first interview that was done 316 00:19:51,482 --> 00:19:55,361 by Hamilton County Sheriff's Office of Mark Goodyear 317 00:19:55,361 --> 00:19:58,614 after the remains are starting to be found. 318 00:19:58,614 --> 00:20:01,659 Up until now, only Mary Wilson, 319 00:20:01,659 --> 00:20:03,452 the detective from Indianapolis PD, 320 00:20:03,452 --> 00:20:04,954 had interviewed him. 321 00:20:15,714 --> 00:20:18,551 AINSWORTH: So this detective is talking about Baumeister 322 00:20:18,551 --> 00:20:19,927 and Goodyear when they first meet 323 00:20:19,927 --> 00:20:21,220 and they first go to the house. 324 00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:22,388 He says-- 325 00:20:31,689 --> 00:20:33,315 AINSWORTH: What he's saying here is he wasn't abducted. 326 00:20:33,315 --> 00:20:35,025 He wasn't forced to go there. 327 00:20:35,025 --> 00:20:36,944 He went there--he went there of his own volition. 328 00:21:20,154 --> 00:21:23,866 - This description that he has of what happened when he's just 329 00:21:23,866 --> 00:21:27,411 doing this chokehold on him to make him pass out, 330 00:21:27,411 --> 00:21:30,998 that doesn't happen with auto-erotic asphyxia. 331 00:21:30,998 --> 00:21:32,750 That happens in actual strangulation. 332 00:21:32,750 --> 00:21:35,085 The only way you would know that is if you've seen it before. 333 00:21:56,899 --> 00:22:00,194 AINSWORTH: Seems to me like he really gets off on that. 334 00:22:00,194 --> 00:22:03,364 He just has too much detail for having only done it once. 335 00:22:15,125 --> 00:22:16,669 [laughter] 336 00:23:03,507 --> 00:23:05,050 AINSWORTH: This is odd to me. 337 00:23:05,050 --> 00:23:08,095 So Goodyear says throughout this whole interview 338 00:23:08,095 --> 00:23:10,264 that he is scared to death of Baumeister. 339 00:23:10,264 --> 00:23:12,766 Why don't you get out of the house and leave? 340 00:23:31,118 --> 00:23:32,578 AINSWORTH: Who does that? 341 00:23:32,578 --> 00:23:33,996 So you were scared to death, 342 00:23:33,996 --> 00:23:35,789 but you invite him over for dinner. 343 00:23:39,168 --> 00:23:41,211 AINSWORTH: I can't get into the mind of these detectives 344 00:23:41,211 --> 00:23:43,589 as to why they're not pressing him. 345 00:23:43,589 --> 00:23:45,674 They're not really challenging him on anything. 346 00:23:52,765 --> 00:23:54,975 - They might just be getting this statement right now 347 00:23:54,975 --> 00:23:56,477 and going, OK, I have to believe that 348 00:23:56,477 --> 00:23:58,228 he was there only once. 349 00:23:58,228 --> 00:24:00,689 But then when he says, then I invited him to dinner, go-- 350 00:24:00,689 --> 00:24:03,275 and it's in the same interview, you did what? 351 00:24:07,529 --> 00:24:09,782 AINSWORTH: Explain that to me. 352 00:24:12,117 --> 00:24:14,328 - Certainly a different picture than 353 00:24:14,328 --> 00:24:16,121 you're the survivor of this-- 354 00:24:16,121 --> 00:24:18,123 - Right. - suspected monster? 355 00:24:18,123 --> 00:24:20,626 - Yeah. So come over and have dinner. 356 00:24:20,626 --> 00:24:23,170 - Yeah, come over and let's cook burgers out on the grill. 357 00:24:23,170 --> 00:24:26,632 - Oh, my gosh, there's so much to it. 358 00:24:26,632 --> 00:24:28,717 [sighs] You know the video that was taken out there 359 00:24:28,717 --> 00:24:30,970 by the paranormal researchers? 360 00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:32,721 - Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 361 00:24:32,721 --> 00:24:34,014 - You know, I just don't even know what-- 362 00:24:34,014 --> 00:24:36,141 I don't even know where to start with that. 363 00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:22,688 AINSWORTH: He said he knew he had a gun, 364 00:25:22,688 --> 00:25:24,106 but he never saw it. 365 00:25:27,026 --> 00:25:28,360 AINSWORTH: And he was trying to get him in the bathroom 366 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:30,821 to shoot him with the gun that he kept in the locker 367 00:25:30,821 --> 00:25:33,699 that he never saw. 368 00:25:33,699 --> 00:25:36,493 That doesn't make any sense. 369 00:25:36,493 --> 00:25:41,206 Why would you say that if you were only there once? 370 00:25:41,206 --> 00:25:44,126 That indicates he's been there more than one time. 371 00:26:02,811 --> 00:26:04,188 AINSWORTH: Never told the police-- 372 00:26:04,188 --> 00:26:06,857 never told the police any of this stuff. 373 00:26:08,734 --> 00:26:11,111 Sure would have been helpful at the time. 374 00:26:11,111 --> 00:26:14,656 So on the video, 375 00:26:14,656 --> 00:26:16,116 I didn't see Goodyear's face 376 00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:17,534 because it wasn't really shown on there. 377 00:26:21,538 --> 00:26:25,042 He's doing a home showing, 378 00:26:25,042 --> 00:26:26,543 you know, or a museum tour. 379 00:26:26,543 --> 00:26:28,837 You know, I mean, that's what it seems like, 380 00:26:28,837 --> 00:26:32,049 because he seems very comfortable in there. 381 00:26:32,049 --> 00:26:34,802 And he's sitting there, you know, all relaxed, 382 00:26:34,802 --> 00:26:37,679 crossing his legs. 383 00:26:37,679 --> 00:26:42,601 One of the things I noticed was he wasn't wearing any shoes. 384 00:26:42,601 --> 00:26:45,854 And you know, he has recently found God. 385 00:27:05,666 --> 00:27:08,627 [tense music] 386 00:27:08,627 --> 00:27:11,338 AINSWORTH: I started thinking biblically, 387 00:27:11,338 --> 00:27:13,590 when you take your shoes off, 388 00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:15,300 it's because you're on holy ground. 389 00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:17,052 JELLISON: Right. AINSWORTH: You know? 390 00:27:17,052 --> 00:27:19,888 Like when Moses saw the burning bush and God told him, 391 00:27:19,888 --> 00:27:21,849 put the shoes off thine feet because 392 00:27:21,849 --> 00:27:23,183 where thou standest is holy ground. 393 00:27:23,183 --> 00:27:26,228 I'm thinking, I wonder if he thinks of that house 394 00:27:26,228 --> 00:27:29,439 and those grounds as being holy ground somehow. 395 00:27:33,318 --> 00:27:35,279 JELLISON: At the very least, 396 00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:37,865 he has an affection for that property. 397 00:27:37,865 --> 00:27:40,117 - Right, and that's a good way to put it--has an affection. 398 00:27:40,117 --> 00:27:43,203 I was going to say even a reverence for it. 399 00:27:43,203 --> 00:27:44,663 - Absolutely, yeah. 400 00:27:44,663 --> 00:27:47,958 But also, I remember reading 401 00:27:47,958 --> 00:27:51,003 that Goodyear admits that he lied to the police 402 00:27:51,003 --> 00:27:53,589 to help them get a warrant. 403 00:27:53,589 --> 00:27:55,382 He makes that statement. - Yeah. 404 00:28:08,562 --> 00:28:10,981 AINSWORTH: He came out of the gate lying to them, 405 00:28:10,981 --> 00:28:12,441 and he says it was because he just 406 00:28:12,441 --> 00:28:13,734 wanted to get their attention. 407 00:28:13,734 --> 00:28:15,903 Well, he got their attention, all right. 408 00:28:15,903 --> 00:28:19,615 But he's lying to them about critical things. 409 00:28:19,615 --> 00:28:21,825 So what else is he lying about? 410 00:28:21,825 --> 00:28:23,368 I think at the very minimum, do-- 411 00:28:23,368 --> 00:28:24,703 - He knew what was happening. 412 00:28:24,703 --> 00:28:27,247 - Right. 413 00:28:29,917 --> 00:28:34,212 And I think he probably was involved with Baumeister. 414 00:28:39,343 --> 00:28:42,554 WILLIAMS: About probably a year or two years ago, 415 00:28:42,554 --> 00:28:44,222 while I was walking back into some of the places 416 00:28:44,222 --> 00:28:49,519 that Dad worked on and seeing what they are now is amazing. 417 00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:51,146 Well, Metro is a really good example. 418 00:28:51,146 --> 00:28:54,232 That building was just a hollowed-out shell, 419 00:28:54,232 --> 00:28:56,318 and they turned it into something, you know, 420 00:28:56,318 --> 00:28:58,028 completely different. 421 00:28:58,028 --> 00:28:59,571 He loved going into places like that 422 00:28:59,571 --> 00:29:02,199 and seeing what could be done to have it redone. 423 00:29:02,199 --> 00:29:06,161 - Well, it makes me sad because I liked Jerry a lot. 424 00:29:06,161 --> 00:29:09,206 He was a big part of the community. 425 00:29:09,206 --> 00:29:14,461 Ray Comer was the contractor remodeling the bar, 426 00:29:14,461 --> 00:29:15,963 and Jerry was helping him. 427 00:29:15,963 --> 00:29:18,715 And Jerry also was helping the owner 428 00:29:18,715 --> 00:29:21,426 of the bar plan how we were going to lay it out 429 00:29:21,426 --> 00:29:22,970 and all that stuff. 430 00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:24,638 And Jerry was the one that really sat down with us 431 00:29:24,638 --> 00:29:27,224 and said, you ought to do this and this and this. 432 00:29:27,224 --> 00:29:28,892 And, you know, we would decide 433 00:29:28,892 --> 00:29:31,561 what we really wanted to do with it. 434 00:29:31,561 --> 00:29:35,941 So he was a good guy. 435 00:29:35,941 --> 00:29:40,529 When Ray came in that day and said Jerry's missing 436 00:29:40,529 --> 00:29:46,034 and we can't find him, it was surprise, shock. 437 00:29:46,034 --> 00:29:49,329 - Ray was extremely distraught. 438 00:29:49,329 --> 00:29:50,747 He went to New Orleans. 439 00:29:50,747 --> 00:29:53,667 He went to the Keys trying to find him. 440 00:29:53,667 --> 00:29:55,377 I mean, if my fiancé disappeared, 441 00:29:55,377 --> 00:29:57,254 I would never stop looking. 442 00:29:57,254 --> 00:29:59,798 I didn't really have any contact with Ray 443 00:29:59,798 --> 00:30:01,675 immediately after. 444 00:30:01,675 --> 00:30:04,177 You know, the family basically isolated me. 445 00:30:04,177 --> 00:30:05,721 I don't think they wanted me to hear 446 00:30:05,721 --> 00:30:07,556 about what was happening 447 00:30:07,556 --> 00:30:12,436 to shield me from the reality of it. 448 00:30:12,436 --> 00:30:16,440 As an adult, I started looking into it. 449 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,609 From what I know, they found Dad's car 450 00:30:19,609 --> 00:30:21,945 in the mall parking lot 451 00:30:21,945 --> 00:30:26,366 with quite a bit of cash, unlocked. 452 00:30:26,366 --> 00:30:29,244 Dad's not a big fan of that mall or malls in general, 453 00:30:29,244 --> 00:30:32,581 and this is not his part of town, which-- 454 00:30:32,581 --> 00:30:35,876 all of that was extremely unusual. 455 00:30:35,876 --> 00:30:39,463 It would appear that Dad met Herb 456 00:30:39,463 --> 00:30:43,300 because Baumeister owned a couple of thrift stores 457 00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:46,303 and Dad was actively involved in clothing drives 458 00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:48,263 and food drives for people that were displaced 459 00:30:48,263 --> 00:30:50,390 that were LGBTQ and things like that. 460 00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:52,434 And, you know, Dad loved going to thrift shops 461 00:30:52,434 --> 00:30:54,895 and finding random stuff that he could repurpose 462 00:30:54,895 --> 00:30:58,940 for the bars or, you know, whatever. 463 00:30:58,940 --> 00:31:02,778 Herb and Dad traveled in many of the same circles 464 00:31:02,778 --> 00:31:06,698 and, you know, frequented a lot of the same places. 465 00:31:06,698 --> 00:31:08,909 I can totally see Dad going to some rich guy's farm, you know, 466 00:31:08,909 --> 00:31:10,744 that was going to donate a bunch of clothes, you know, 467 00:31:10,744 --> 00:31:14,372 for all this and just being caught up in all of that. 468 00:31:14,372 --> 00:31:16,708 I could totally see that happening very easily. 469 00:31:19,294 --> 00:31:22,714 MUSALL: In talking to different experts, 470 00:31:22,714 --> 00:31:27,302 Herb was very calculated in knowing 471 00:31:27,302 --> 00:31:29,888 what kind of victim he was looking for. 472 00:31:29,888 --> 00:31:32,891 I think he was looking for guys who were 473 00:31:32,891 --> 00:31:34,976 least likely to cause problems. 474 00:31:34,976 --> 00:31:37,604 The one thing that I never understood 475 00:31:37,604 --> 00:31:41,733 was how exactly did he get these people to go with him. 476 00:32:09,261 --> 00:32:12,389 AINSWORTH: Why would he say luring them 477 00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:15,934 or enticing them to come to the property? 478 00:32:15,934 --> 00:32:19,646 I mean, it--all indication is that Baumeister 479 00:32:19,646 --> 00:32:21,898 is the one that picked these people up. 480 00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:24,109 But Goodyear is saying I didn't entice anybody. 481 00:32:24,109 --> 00:32:25,944 Well, somebody did, 482 00:32:25,944 --> 00:32:29,489 and I just don't understand why he would go there. 483 00:32:29,489 --> 00:32:33,410 [suspenseful music] 484 00:32:33,410 --> 00:32:36,746 WILLIAMS: My personal belief is that my dad had 485 00:32:36,746 --> 00:32:40,709 an acquaintance who was friends with Herb Baumeister, 486 00:32:40,709 --> 00:32:44,462 and that was how he kind of lured him out. 487 00:32:44,462 --> 00:32:46,298 That is my belief, anyway. 488 00:32:46,298 --> 00:32:48,675 I have no basis in fact on that or evidence, 489 00:32:48,675 --> 00:32:52,554 but that's my personal thought. 490 00:32:52,554 --> 00:32:54,764 AINSWORTH: One suspected victim-- 491 00:32:54,764 --> 00:32:57,058 he's in a relationship, committed relationship 492 00:32:57,058 --> 00:32:58,852 for four or five years. 493 00:32:58,852 --> 00:33:02,772 Doesn't match any of the other profiles other than being gay. 494 00:33:02,772 --> 00:33:07,110 And yet, he ends up likely being a victim of Baumeister. 495 00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:09,112 Now, how does that happen? 496 00:33:09,112 --> 00:33:10,405 - Yeah. 497 00:33:10,405 --> 00:33:12,407 - I heard from friends of my dad's 498 00:33:12,407 --> 00:33:17,120 that Mark Goodyear was friends with Dad and Ray 499 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,080 through Our Place, maybe. 500 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,376 - I think that Mark Goodyear was very well-known 501 00:33:23,376 --> 00:33:25,295 in the gay community at that time. 502 00:33:25,295 --> 00:33:30,926 So was Baumeister using Goodyear as that bait? 503 00:33:30,926 --> 00:33:32,260 - As bait. 504 00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:33,803 That's exactly what I was going to say. 505 00:33:33,803 --> 00:33:35,013 Is he using them as bait? He says, hey. 506 00:33:35,013 --> 00:33:36,097 I know this rich guy. 507 00:33:36,097 --> 00:33:37,515 You ought to see this house. 508 00:33:37,515 --> 00:33:40,393 And they go out to the house. 509 00:33:45,065 --> 00:33:48,401 [insects chirring] 510 00:33:48,401 --> 00:33:50,695 [doorbell rings] 511 00:33:50,695 --> 00:33:51,863 - Hi, Rob? - Yes. 512 00:33:51,863 --> 00:33:53,156 - Steve Ainsworth. - Yeah. 513 00:33:53,156 --> 00:33:54,616 Nice to meet you. I'm Rob. 514 00:33:54,616 --> 00:33:56,159 - Good to meet you. - Nice to meet you. 515 00:33:58,536 --> 00:34:00,872 AINSWORTH: When I go to a site where a murder has happened, 516 00:34:00,872 --> 00:34:02,582 a cold case has happened, 517 00:34:02,582 --> 00:34:04,334 I'm really looking for orientation. 518 00:34:04,334 --> 00:34:06,336 I'm really looking for-- 519 00:34:06,336 --> 00:34:08,338 [sighs] 520 00:34:08,338 --> 00:34:11,549 To get a feel for the scene. 521 00:34:11,549 --> 00:34:14,552 [pensive music] 522 00:34:14,552 --> 00:34:21,559 ♪ ♪ 523 00:34:26,106 --> 00:34:27,983 What does it look like? What does it smell like? 524 00:34:27,983 --> 00:34:30,235 What does it sound like? 525 00:34:30,235 --> 00:34:33,488 ♪ ♪ 526 00:34:33,488 --> 00:34:37,659 That's going to help to answer or expand 527 00:34:37,659 --> 00:34:41,288 that particular part of the investigation. 528 00:34:41,288 --> 00:34:48,253 ♪ ♪ 529 00:34:50,005 --> 00:34:51,464 If you're just reading the reports 530 00:34:51,464 --> 00:34:53,049 and trying to envision in your mind 531 00:34:53,049 --> 00:34:56,094 and all that kind of stuff, that doesn't do that much. 532 00:34:56,094 --> 00:34:58,596 But to actually be there and know what happened, 533 00:34:58,596 --> 00:35:00,390 a whole different ballgame. 534 00:35:00,390 --> 00:35:04,019 ♪ ♪ 535 00:35:10,233 --> 00:35:12,777 GRAVES: So Steve, this is the area where the authorities 536 00:35:12,777 --> 00:35:16,948 told me the mulch pile was. 537 00:35:16,948 --> 00:35:18,491 And they termed it a mulch pile, 538 00:35:18,491 --> 00:35:20,994 because this is the area where he was collecting 539 00:35:20,994 --> 00:35:22,537 all the debris from the farm-- 540 00:35:22,537 --> 00:35:25,040 limbs, leaves, grass clippings. 541 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,751 And he was placing the bodies in the mulch pile 542 00:35:27,751 --> 00:35:31,254 and then cover them up with that debris. 543 00:35:31,254 --> 00:35:34,257 AINSWORTH: Have you ever found any bones or anything? 544 00:35:34,257 --> 00:35:36,551 - Yeah, we found over the years-- 545 00:35:36,551 --> 00:35:38,553 I found maybe 10 or 12. 546 00:35:38,553 --> 00:35:41,264 We did find a rib in this area. 547 00:35:41,264 --> 00:35:45,226 This land here is virtually undisturbed since that time. 548 00:35:45,226 --> 00:35:49,022 The anthropologist, he believed they had collected about 549 00:35:49,022 --> 00:35:51,650 50% of what potentially could be here. 550 00:35:51,650 --> 00:35:53,818 AINSWORTH: From the property, about 50%. 551 00:35:53,818 --> 00:35:55,236 GRAVES: That was what he told me, yeah. 552 00:35:55,236 --> 00:35:57,447 AINSWORTH: Wow. 553 00:35:57,447 --> 00:35:59,908 So the burn pile is-- 554 00:35:59,908 --> 00:36:01,993 is it right here outside the patio? 555 00:36:01,993 --> 00:36:05,497 - No, no. 556 00:36:05,497 --> 00:36:08,041 The burn pile was actually farther in the woods. 557 00:36:08,041 --> 00:36:10,335 - Oh, because the video I saw, 558 00:36:10,335 --> 00:36:12,420 Goodyear is saying that the burn pile is, 559 00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:14,255 like, right here at the patio. 560 00:36:31,690 --> 00:36:33,650 GRAVES: No, I think he was mistaken. 561 00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:35,819 Mark's mistaken on a lot. 562 00:36:35,819 --> 00:36:38,655 The woods did actually come up much closer to the house, 563 00:36:38,655 --> 00:36:42,117 but the actual burn pile is into the woods this way. 564 00:36:42,117 --> 00:36:43,201 AINSWORTH: Oh, let's go take a look. 565 00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:44,369 GRAVES: Yeah. 566 00:36:44,369 --> 00:36:45,829 AINSWORTH: So it was in the woods. 567 00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:48,998 GRAVES: It was. 568 00:36:48,998 --> 00:36:52,210 This is also the area where, in 1994, 569 00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:56,923 his son found a complete skeleton. 570 00:36:56,923 --> 00:36:59,801 The theory is that after his son found this skeleton, 571 00:36:59,801 --> 00:37:02,846 he realized now someone has seen something. 572 00:37:02,846 --> 00:37:05,557 And he went through the woods and collected the bones 573 00:37:05,557 --> 00:37:08,601 that he could find and started burning them here 574 00:37:08,601 --> 00:37:09,936 and breaking them into small pieces. 575 00:37:09,936 --> 00:37:11,938 - And did it here. - In this area right here. 576 00:37:11,938 --> 00:37:14,607 And that's where the majority of the fragments 577 00:37:14,607 --> 00:37:16,109 were concentrated. 578 00:37:16,109 --> 00:37:18,528 And the authorities also told me that in this area, 579 00:37:18,528 --> 00:37:21,281 they found a light that was sort of stuck on a tree 580 00:37:21,281 --> 00:37:22,907 and, I think, an extension cord. 581 00:37:22,907 --> 00:37:23,950 So I think-- 582 00:37:23,950 --> 00:37:25,452 - A light? 583 00:37:25,452 --> 00:37:28,663 - he might have been doing this in the evening. 584 00:37:30,707 --> 00:37:33,084 AINSWORTH: So there were woods all the way up 585 00:37:33,084 --> 00:37:34,544 almost to the house back then, yeah? 586 00:37:34,544 --> 00:37:36,629 GRAVES: Correct. 587 00:37:36,629 --> 00:37:38,548 - I've picked up, I've dragged, 588 00:37:38,548 --> 00:37:40,300 I've carried dead bodies before. 589 00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:44,137 And going through woods like this, 590 00:37:44,137 --> 00:37:46,347 that's a daunting task. 591 00:37:46,347 --> 00:37:48,308 If you're dragging through this kind of stuff-- 592 00:37:48,308 --> 00:37:49,809 GRAVES: Right. 593 00:37:49,809 --> 00:37:51,770 AINSWORTH:--I don't think you'd do it by yourself. 594 00:37:51,770 --> 00:37:55,940 It's much easier with two people, obviously, or more. 595 00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:57,942 You know, at least you have one person in front 596 00:37:57,942 --> 00:37:59,986 with their back to it and breaking brush 597 00:37:59,986 --> 00:38:02,280 while you're getting through there. 598 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,948 This would be impossible-- - Yeah. 599 00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:07,786 - to do, especially for one person. 600 00:38:07,786 --> 00:38:11,498 He had to have somebody help him. 601 00:38:14,876 --> 00:38:16,753 Tell me about Mark Goodyear. 602 00:38:16,753 --> 00:38:19,631 What do you think his relationship with Herb was? 603 00:38:19,631 --> 00:38:24,093 - Mark, of course, is the one person that Herb didn't kill. 604 00:38:24,093 --> 00:38:25,804 AINSWORTH: How much do you think he knew? 605 00:38:25,804 --> 00:38:28,014 - Well, you know, I think initially, 606 00:38:28,014 --> 00:38:30,558 these were his friends that were disappearing. 607 00:38:30,558 --> 00:38:33,394 And I think eventually, he put it together 608 00:38:33,394 --> 00:38:35,605 that this might be what's happening to them. 609 00:38:35,605 --> 00:38:39,150 And Mark's really the person that brought the authorities 610 00:38:39,150 --> 00:38:40,610 to the property. 611 00:38:40,610 --> 00:38:42,737 I would characterize him as a hero in this 612 00:38:42,737 --> 00:38:44,405 because this could have gone on indefinitely 613 00:38:44,405 --> 00:38:46,157 if Mark didn't say something. 614 00:38:46,157 --> 00:38:48,493 - I mean, I've just seen statements that Mark made. 615 00:38:48,493 --> 00:38:51,955 And he gives knowledge that he shouldn't have had 616 00:38:51,955 --> 00:38:53,832 unless he was there. 617 00:38:53,832 --> 00:38:55,542 GRAVES: Right. - Do you know about that? 618 00:38:55,542 --> 00:38:57,043 - I can't explain why. 619 00:38:57,043 --> 00:38:59,462 AINSWORTH: So in a phone call that Herb made to his attorney, 620 00:38:59,462 --> 00:39:01,673 he says, I left a note behind the picture for Julie 621 00:39:01,673 --> 00:39:04,884 and for the kids warning them about Mark Goodyear 622 00:39:04,884 --> 00:39:06,427 and he was dangerous. 623 00:39:06,427 --> 00:39:08,429 And what do you make of that? Have you ever found that note? 624 00:39:08,429 --> 00:39:10,723 GRAVES: I never found the note. - OK. 625 00:39:10,723 --> 00:39:12,392 - I don't know that Mark would have done anything 626 00:39:12,392 --> 00:39:14,561 to put anybody in harm's way. 627 00:39:14,561 --> 00:39:16,396 - Hmm. I wonder. 628 00:39:16,396 --> 00:39:20,441 ♪ ♪ 629 00:39:20,441 --> 00:39:22,944 I saw a video with Mark. 630 00:39:22,944 --> 00:39:25,947 He was completely comfortable here. 631 00:39:25,947 --> 00:39:28,783 It just seemed odd to me. Does that seem odd to you? 632 00:39:28,783 --> 00:39:30,118 GRAVES: It does. 633 00:39:30,118 --> 00:39:32,287 He's a bit of a showman. 634 00:39:32,287 --> 00:39:34,080 He does like to embellish. 635 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,456 AINSWORTH: Uh-huh. 636 00:39:35,456 --> 00:39:37,667 And when you say embellish, what do you mean by that? 637 00:39:37,667 --> 00:39:41,170 - I just--you know-- 638 00:39:41,170 --> 00:39:42,797 - I mean, in one statement, he said he lied to the police. 639 00:39:42,797 --> 00:39:45,466 Why do you think he did that? 640 00:39:45,466 --> 00:39:48,177 - I really don't know. 641 00:39:48,177 --> 00:39:51,139 You know, a lot of people want to be involved with things 642 00:39:51,139 --> 00:39:54,851 maybe, and maybe he was trying to insert himself 643 00:39:54,851 --> 00:39:56,769 more than he really was involved. 644 00:39:56,769 --> 00:39:58,521 - Mm-hmm. 645 00:39:58,521 --> 00:40:01,024 Because I've been in investigations like this before 646 00:40:01,024 --> 00:40:02,859 where you're investigating this guy, 647 00:40:02,859 --> 00:40:04,277 and all of a sudden, they take their life. 648 00:40:04,277 --> 00:40:05,445 You go, oh, that's that. 649 00:40:05,445 --> 00:40:06,904 Well, not necessarily, 650 00:40:06,904 --> 00:40:08,615 because you have these unidentified people. 651 00:40:08,615 --> 00:40:11,200 And are there any loose ends that need to be tied up? 652 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,745 And I'm just wondering if they're looking into Mark, 653 00:40:13,745 --> 00:40:16,289 and then they said, well, that's that, you know? 654 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:22,045 GRAVES: As far as the murders, 655 00:40:22,045 --> 00:40:24,422 I don't believe Mark was involved. 656 00:40:30,762 --> 00:40:33,389 [chatter] 657 00:40:33,389 --> 00:40:35,099 AINSWORTH: So this is some cordage, 658 00:40:35,099 --> 00:40:36,893 and it looked like it was red at one time. 659 00:40:36,893 --> 00:40:38,519 - Mm-hmm. AINSWORTH: Have you seen that? 660 00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:40,271 - Steve, I've not seen these photographs before. 661 00:40:40,271 --> 00:40:41,689 This are very interesting. 662 00:40:41,689 --> 00:40:43,441 AINSWORTH: So that has a noose in it right there 663 00:40:43,441 --> 00:40:46,277 or a slipknot, yeah. JELLISON: Slipknot. 664 00:40:46,277 --> 00:40:49,155 You know, when you look at slipknots at a crime scene 665 00:40:49,155 --> 00:40:51,866 and you don't know cause of death, 666 00:40:51,866 --> 00:40:55,662 was this cord used to strangle somebody, 667 00:40:55,662 --> 00:40:59,165 or was it used to maybe restrain somebody? 668 00:40:59,165 --> 00:41:00,708 AINSWORTH: Right. 669 00:41:00,708 --> 00:41:03,002 Now, this... 670 00:41:04,921 --> 00:41:07,131 Does that look like a hinged handcuff to you? 671 00:41:07,131 --> 00:41:08,549 - It does. Oh, yeah. 672 00:41:08,549 --> 00:41:10,385 There's no doubt that's what that is. 673 00:41:10,385 --> 00:41:11,636 AINSWORTH: Yeah. 674 00:41:11,636 --> 00:41:13,429 They were found with the remains. 675 00:41:13,429 --> 00:41:15,723 This is something I think you and I talked about before. 676 00:41:15,723 --> 00:41:17,809 Are these shotgun shells out there 677 00:41:17,809 --> 00:41:19,727 because somebody was hunting rabbits or birds 678 00:41:19,727 --> 00:41:21,312 or something like that out there? 679 00:41:21,312 --> 00:41:22,939 Or are these shotgun shells because somebody 680 00:41:22,939 --> 00:41:24,982 was shot with a shotgun? 681 00:41:24,982 --> 00:41:26,609 JELLISON: We know we have people 682 00:41:26,609 --> 00:41:28,319 killed on that property. 683 00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:29,779 It's not just a coincidence that you 684 00:41:29,779 --> 00:41:32,532 have shotgun shells and handcuffs 685 00:41:32,532 --> 00:41:34,200 intermingled with human remains. 686 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:35,493 - Right. 687 00:41:35,493 --> 00:41:37,203 - You know, I'm really trying to focus it 688 00:41:37,203 --> 00:41:38,621 on that cause of death. 689 00:41:38,621 --> 00:41:41,791 - Mm-hmm. 690 00:41:41,791 --> 00:41:43,835 JELLISON: I don't discredit the theory 691 00:41:43,835 --> 00:41:46,963 that this went on in the pool. 692 00:41:46,963 --> 00:41:49,716 But I got to keep going back to 693 00:41:49,716 --> 00:41:55,388 how does one man drag a body or take a body 694 00:41:55,388 --> 00:41:58,725 100, 200 yards into the woods? 695 00:41:58,725 --> 00:42:00,560 I mean-- - That's my question. 696 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,354 - But also, I keep going back to these handcuffs, 697 00:42:03,354 --> 00:42:06,441 these ligatures, these shotgun shells 698 00:42:06,441 --> 00:42:07,900 that were found back there. 699 00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:10,695 And that certainly speaks to me 700 00:42:10,695 --> 00:42:14,115 the solution to dragging somebody back there. 701 00:42:14,115 --> 00:42:15,366 - Right, right. 702 00:42:15,366 --> 00:42:16,409 You don't have to drag him back there. 703 00:42:16,409 --> 00:42:17,827 You walk him back there. 704 00:42:17,827 --> 00:42:18,870 JELLISON: You make him walk back there. 705 00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:20,371 AINSWORTH: Right, right. 706 00:42:20,371 --> 00:42:22,123 You know, and the other thing I was thinking when I was there, 707 00:42:22,123 --> 00:42:24,792 everything that we have comes from Goodyear-- 708 00:42:24,792 --> 00:42:27,837 everything about the pool, everything about the victims. 709 00:42:27,837 --> 00:42:30,339 He could be making all of this up. 710 00:42:30,339 --> 00:42:33,342 Now, this is probably the most damaging statement 711 00:42:33,342 --> 00:42:35,261 of all of these things. 712 00:42:35,261 --> 00:42:38,139 This is a statement with a guy 713 00:42:38,139 --> 00:42:40,058 by the name of Leroy Bray, again, 714 00:42:40,058 --> 00:42:42,769 with Hamilton County Sheriff's detectives. 715 00:42:42,769 --> 00:42:47,648 He was a player off and on in the downtown gay community. 716 00:42:47,648 --> 00:42:51,527 [ominous music] 717 00:42:51,527 --> 00:42:54,030 So he goes out to this place one time. 718 00:42:54,030 --> 00:42:56,949 There's supposed to be a surprise party of some kind, 719 00:42:56,949 --> 00:42:58,659 and there's drinking and everything. 720 00:42:58,659 --> 00:43:02,080 And he says, "I was given a drink of whiskey and Coke. 721 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,041 "First, I had a Coke, and I told him I wasn't drinking. 722 00:43:05,041 --> 00:43:07,126 "And they talked me into drinking 723 00:43:07,126 --> 00:43:09,170 "a whiskey and Coke, the second drink. 724 00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:12,173 "I think they laced it because what happened next 725 00:43:12,173 --> 00:43:15,384 "was I was asked to step outside. 726 00:43:15,384 --> 00:43:18,304 "And I thought we were having a barbecue or something. 727 00:43:18,304 --> 00:43:21,307 "And I was introduced to several different people, 728 00:43:21,307 --> 00:43:23,810 "one of them being Mark Goodyear. 729 00:43:23,810 --> 00:43:26,145 "Anyway, when we got to the patio, 730 00:43:26,145 --> 00:43:29,398 "the back part of the house, I sit around, 731 00:43:29,398 --> 00:43:30,942 "and I said, well, what's going on? 732 00:43:30,942 --> 00:43:34,695 "You know, we're just going to, uh, 733 00:43:34,695 --> 00:43:37,365 "try to, uh, do some theatrical stuff, 734 00:43:37,365 --> 00:43:39,367 "you know, like, plays and stuff like that. 735 00:43:39,367 --> 00:43:42,703 "And I said, well, yeah, sure. I'm game. 736 00:43:42,703 --> 00:43:45,915 "This guy came out in some kind of big raincoat, a hat, 737 00:43:45,915 --> 00:43:47,708 "and he had a mask on. 738 00:43:47,708 --> 00:43:49,877 "Anyway, these kids, these young guys 739 00:43:49,877 --> 00:43:52,922 "came out, one being Mark Goodyear and another kid 740 00:43:52,922 --> 00:43:56,008 "I didn't recognize. 741 00:43:56,008 --> 00:43:58,344 "The kid goes, hey, baby, what's going on? 742 00:43:58,344 --> 00:44:00,805 "The guy with the big coat said, 743 00:44:00,805 --> 00:44:02,473 "hey, he's what's going on. 744 00:44:02,473 --> 00:44:06,394 "And he took a pistol and shot him while he was on the patio 745 00:44:06,394 --> 00:44:08,688 "three times at least-- two or three times. 746 00:44:08,688 --> 00:44:11,858 And then he walked over and shot him with a shotgun." 747 00:44:11,858 --> 00:44:15,194 [gunshot] 748 00:44:15,194 --> 00:44:18,072 "And then he came back over to me and held the shotgun on me. 749 00:44:18,072 --> 00:44:20,074 "And then he had someone hold the shotgun 750 00:44:20,074 --> 00:44:21,909 "while he took all this stuff off. 751 00:44:21,909 --> 00:44:26,414 "And he said, surprise, like that. 752 00:44:26,414 --> 00:44:30,293 And then I took off running with Danny Covert." 753 00:44:30,293 --> 00:44:32,420 He says that guy was Herb Baumeister. 754 00:44:36,007 --> 00:44:37,383 JELLISON: This is crazy. 755 00:44:37,383 --> 00:44:41,679 So this guy is saying he watched 756 00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:44,974 a person that he assumed to be Herb Baumeister 757 00:44:44,974 --> 00:44:47,226 shoot another guy right in front of him? 758 00:44:47,226 --> 00:44:49,562 - Mm-hmm, on the patio, because this guy, 759 00:44:49,562 --> 00:44:52,648 Leroy Bray, he said he dated Herb a couple of times. 760 00:44:52,648 --> 00:44:54,984 So he knew who he was. 761 00:44:54,984 --> 00:44:59,238 I mean, the whole thing is so bizarre and so odd, right? 762 00:44:59,238 --> 00:45:01,657 OK, so this is even better, right here. 763 00:45:01,657 --> 00:45:04,410 Detective says, "OK, did anybody else 764 00:45:04,410 --> 00:45:06,370 participate in the shooting?" 765 00:45:06,370 --> 00:45:07,830 "Only the people that saw it happen. 766 00:45:07,830 --> 00:45:09,248 They must have." 767 00:45:09,248 --> 00:45:11,626 "And Mark Goodyear saw the shooting happen?" 768 00:45:11,626 --> 00:45:13,961 He says, "Yes. 769 00:45:13,961 --> 00:45:16,589 "He was standing right behind the kid when it happened. 770 00:45:16,589 --> 00:45:19,967 As a matter of fact, they held his arms." 771 00:45:19,967 --> 00:45:23,554 - So Goodyear held this guy's arms-- 772 00:45:23,554 --> 00:45:25,097 - Mm-hmm. 773 00:45:25,097 --> 00:45:29,393 - while we assume Baumeister shot him. 774 00:45:29,393 --> 00:45:32,313 Have you seen anything that indicates 775 00:45:32,313 --> 00:45:36,025 law enforcement directly confronted Goodyear 776 00:45:36,025 --> 00:45:38,194 about this statement that this guy made? 777 00:45:38,194 --> 00:45:40,071 - No. No, there's absolutely nothing. 778 00:45:40,071 --> 00:45:41,864 And the statements I've seen, the reports I've seen, 779 00:45:41,864 --> 00:45:44,742 nobody talked to any of these people. 780 00:45:44,742 --> 00:45:48,204 And this is the only place that that shooting is mentioned. 781 00:45:48,204 --> 00:45:51,415 I see Goodyear's name in almost everything that I read-- 782 00:45:51,415 --> 00:45:54,543 all of the interviews, all of the supplemental reports, 783 00:45:54,543 --> 00:45:56,045 almost all of them. 784 00:45:56,045 --> 00:45:57,922 Every single person they talked to-- 785 00:45:57,922 --> 00:45:59,548 "Yeah, I know Mark Goodyear." 786 00:45:59,548 --> 00:46:02,426 He did this or he did that, and he was with Baumeister, 787 00:46:02,426 --> 00:46:05,054 and he did all of this other stuff. 788 00:46:05,054 --> 00:46:07,306 So here's where I am with Goodyear. 789 00:46:07,306 --> 00:46:08,516 There are so many things that you could 790 00:46:08,516 --> 00:46:09,850 sit down and pick apart-- 791 00:46:09,850 --> 00:46:11,102 - Sure. AINSWORTH:--with him. 792 00:46:11,102 --> 00:46:12,895 OK, you said this. What about this? 793 00:46:12,895 --> 00:46:15,606 What about this? What about this? 794 00:46:18,609 --> 00:46:20,111 I'd like to take a run at Goodyear, 795 00:46:20,111 --> 00:46:22,738 but I don't have the authority anymore. 796 00:46:22,738 --> 00:46:25,282 If somebody can interview him, 797 00:46:25,282 --> 00:46:28,744 I would love to show what all of the contradictions are 798 00:46:28,744 --> 00:46:31,956 and then just start hammering him with those contradictions, 799 00:46:31,956 --> 00:46:34,333 because I think he'd get flustered very quickly. 800 00:46:34,333 --> 00:46:37,044 [dramatic music] 801 00:46:37,044 --> 00:46:42,341 ♪ ♪ 802 00:46:42,341 --> 00:46:45,803 - OK, so this is my seat, huh? PRODUCER: That's right. 803 00:46:45,803 --> 00:46:47,263 - [laughs] 804 00:46:50,224 --> 00:46:51,517 - OK. 805 00:47:00,776 --> 00:47:02,903 - I always do. 806 00:47:05,197 --> 00:47:06,574 - OK. 807 00:47:07,408 --> 00:47:08,909 - OK. 808 00:47:11,162 --> 00:47:14,457 - OK, well, hello, everybody. 809 00:47:14,457 --> 00:47:19,211 This is Mark Goodyear. 810 00:47:19,211 --> 00:47:21,380 Yeah. 811 00:47:21,380 --> 00:47:24,550 Um, let me ask you. 812 00:47:24,550 --> 00:47:25,926 What do you think? 813 00:47:25,926 --> 00:47:29,722 Am I the evil culprit, the accomplice? 814 00:47:29,722 --> 00:47:35,102 I'd like to know how audience views me. 815 00:47:35,102 --> 00:47:38,898 [laughs]