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00:00:19,936 --> 00:00:22,271
CLAIRE HUIE: Rob and I
wrote letters back and forth

2
00:00:22,272 --> 00:00:25,149
while he was
in Travis County Jail,

3
00:00:25,150 --> 00:00:27,901
and, uh, he had a lot of time
on his hands

4
00:00:27,902 --> 00:00:29,111
so he would write us
long letters,

5
00:00:29,112 --> 00:00:31,656
and this is the first one
that he wrote to us.

6
00:00:34,909 --> 00:00:36,118
"Dear Claire..."

7
00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:37,661
♪ (GENTLE PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

8
00:00:37,662 --> 00:00:40,582
"...when you're in jail,
time is weird.

9
00:00:41,499 --> 00:00:44,126
<i>Some days
a second takes all day,</i>

10
00:00:44,127 --> 00:00:46,546
<i>and others a day takes seconds.</i>

11
00:00:47,672 --> 00:00:50,340
<i>When you're in a cell,
23 hours a day,</i>

12
00:00:50,341 --> 00:00:52,302
<i>time stretches to infinity.</i>

13
00:00:53,178 --> 00:00:54,762
<i>I read a lot.</i>

14
00:00:54,763 --> 00:00:57,056
<i>I read the whole</i> Dune <i>series.</i>

15
00:00:57,057 --> 00:00:58,724
<i>That's probably
one of the greatest</i>

16
00:00:58,725 --> 00:01:03,187
<i>sci-fi fantasy series around,
and I consider it a classic.</i>

17
00:01:03,188 --> 00:01:04,646
<i>I'm not much into puzzles."</i>

18
00:01:04,647 --> 00:01:07,775
I think I sent him
some puzzle books or something.

19
00:01:07,776 --> 00:01:12,780
"But I do listen to NPR,
although I prefer the BBC News.

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00:01:12,781 --> 00:01:15,532
<i>I've used this situation to grow
into a better person</i>

21
00:01:15,533 --> 00:01:17,577
<i>in the last nine
and a half years.</i>

22
00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:19,912
<i>You can't see it</i>

23
00:01:19,913 --> 00:01:22,331
<i>since you've only known me
for about a week,</i>

24
00:01:22,332 --> 00:01:24,834
but ask my mother
or even my father.

25
00:01:26,127 --> 00:01:29,046
<i>You may even have them on film
talking about this already.</i>

26
00:01:29,047 --> 00:01:31,132
<i>I have no clue
what you've gotten so far.</i>

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<i>I've grown in so many ways
it's impossible to explain.</i>

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Please write back soon.
Sincere best wishes, Rob."

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00:01:41,101 --> 00:01:43,227
That was his first letter,

30
00:01:43,228 --> 00:01:46,146
um, and we wrote back and forth
a few times

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00:01:46,147 --> 00:01:49,567
before he got released on bond.
Yeah.

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00:01:50,068 --> 00:01:52,277
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

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00:01:52,278 --> 00:01:53,988
♪ ("YOGURT SHOP MURDERS"
THEME MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

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00:01:54,739 --> 00:02:00,203
<i>♪ I was living in a devil town ♪</i>

35
00:02:01,287 --> 00:02:06,209
<i>♪ Didn't know
it was a devil town ♪</i>

36
00:02:08,378 --> 00:02:13,006
<i>♪ Oh, Lord,
it really brings me down ♪</i>

37
00:02:13,007 --> 00:02:15,468
<i>♪ About the devil town ♪</i>

38
00:02:17,053 --> 00:02:23,392
<i>♪ I was living in a devil town ♪</i>

39
00:02:23,393 --> 00:02:29,566
<i>♪ Didn't know
it was a devil town ♪</i>

40
00:02:30,733 --> 00:02:35,362
<i>♪ Oh, Lord,
it really brings me down ♪</i>

41
00:02:35,363 --> 00:02:38,032
<i>♪ About the devil town ♪</i>

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00:02:42,662 --> 00:02:47,291
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

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00:02:47,292 --> 00:02:49,501
MICHAEL SCOTT:
<i>To hear that my sentencing</i>

44
00:02:49,502 --> 00:02:51,838
<i>had been overturned was huge.</i>

45
00:02:53,464 --> 00:02:55,465
Oh, man, it was...

46
00:02:55,466 --> 00:02:58,010
I was-- I was standing
at my cell door when--

47
00:02:58,011 --> 00:03:00,345
(STUTTERS)
'cause the officer comes to you,

48
00:03:00,346 --> 00:03:02,598
'cause it doesn't come
at the normal time of mail.

49
00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:03,724
Legal mail is different.

50
00:03:03,725 --> 00:03:06,727
They bring it to you,
and I'm like, "Hey, what's this?

51
00:03:06,728 --> 00:03:08,812
It's from
the Court of Criminal Appeals."

52
00:03:08,813 --> 00:03:11,231
And I opened it up
and went, "Oh, wow!"

53
00:03:11,232 --> 00:03:13,275
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

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00:03:13,276 --> 00:03:15,944
MICHAEL: <i>What they overturned
our convictions on</i>

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00:03:15,945 --> 00:03:18,031
<i>was a Sixth Amendment violation</i>

56
00:03:18,948 --> 00:03:22,577
of a right
to confrontation, specifically.

57
00:03:23,411 --> 00:03:24,953
<i>In Springsteen's trial,</i>

58
00:03:24,954 --> 00:03:27,289
<i>they took my written statement
and they had</i>

59
00:03:27,290 --> 00:03:30,959
<i>an officer read parts
of it into the record.</i>

60
00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:36,132
<i>In my trial, they took excerpts
out of his video interrogation.</i>

61
00:03:38,551 --> 00:03:41,470
<i>The Constitution says,
"You have an absolute right</i>

62
00:03:41,471 --> 00:03:44,598
<i>to confront your accuser."</i>

63
00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:47,559
<i>I refused to get
on the stand at his trial.</i>

64
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,812
<i>He refused to get
on the stand at my trial.</i>

65
00:03:50,813 --> 00:03:54,483
So, where in there
were we allowed

66
00:03:54,484 --> 00:03:58,029
to confront our "accusers"?

67
00:03:59,656 --> 00:04:02,324
This was sort of
a gray area of the law.

68
00:04:02,325 --> 00:04:04,493
And while this case
was on appeal,

69
00:04:04,494 --> 00:04:05,827
<i>the Supreme Court
of the United States</i>

70
00:04:05,828 --> 00:04:07,329
<i>came down with a decision</i>

71
00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:09,039
that really totally
changed the law

72
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,958
and made it
much more black and white,

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00:04:10,959 --> 00:04:13,126
which got this case reversed.

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00:04:13,127 --> 00:04:14,294
REPORTER 1:
<i>New developments today</i>

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00:04:14,295 --> 00:04:16,505
<i>in one of Austin's
most notorious crimes.</i>

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00:04:16,506 --> 00:04:18,340
REPORTER 2: <i>The Texas Court
of Criminal Appeals ruled</i>

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00:04:18,341 --> 00:04:20,592
<i>that Michael Scott got
an unfair capital murder trial</i>

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00:04:20,593 --> 00:04:21,593
<i>in Travis County.</i>

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00:04:21,594 --> 00:04:22,844
REPORTER 3:
<i>They say his confession</i>

80
00:04:22,845 --> 00:04:24,972
<i>was improperly introduced
to jurors</i>

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00:04:24,973 --> 00:04:27,140
<i>and he didn't get
to face Robert Springsteen,</i>

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00:04:27,141 --> 00:04:28,517
<i>one of his accusers.</i>

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00:04:28,518 --> 00:04:30,686
REPORTER 4:
<i>Scott's and Springsteen's
convictions were overturned.</i>

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00:04:30,687 --> 00:04:32,145
REPORTER 5:
<i>The appellate court ruled that</i>

85
00:04:32,146 --> 00:04:34,231
<i>the men's constitutional right
was violated.</i>

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00:04:34,232 --> 00:04:36,566
Every time I hear those words

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00:04:36,567 --> 00:04:40,405
that their rights
were violated, I don't...

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00:04:42,573 --> 00:04:44,826
Our girls were murdered.

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00:04:46,661 --> 00:04:48,412
PAUL JOHNSON:
<i>The highest court in Texas</i>

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00:04:48,413 --> 00:04:52,040
decided on a vote
of five to four.

91
00:04:52,041 --> 00:04:54,876
So, four of the justices said,

92
00:04:54,877 --> 00:04:56,086
"Nope, it didn't make
any difference,"

93
00:04:56,087 --> 00:04:58,380
but it just takes a majority.

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00:04:58,381 --> 00:05:00,048
Five of them said it did,

95
00:05:00,049 --> 00:05:02,051
so they're going back
for a new trial.

96
00:05:02,635 --> 00:05:05,346
CLAIRE:

97
00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:11,519
Six and a half, seven years.

98
00:05:14,689 --> 00:05:16,357
That's a--
That's a rough guess...

99
00:05:17,025 --> 00:05:18,692
on-- on that one.

100
00:05:18,693 --> 00:05:20,485
CARLOS GARCIA: <i>One of the things
that people don't get</i>

101
00:05:20,486 --> 00:05:22,195
is the sequence of events.

102
00:05:22,196 --> 00:05:23,865
The crime happened in '91.

103
00:05:24,615 --> 00:05:26,199
All right. In '99,

104
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,077
Michael Scott confesses,
Springsteen confesses.

105
00:05:29,078 --> 00:05:32,748
Springsteen loses his case,
Scott loses his case.

106
00:05:32,749 --> 00:05:34,458
One gets death, one gets life.

107
00:05:34,459 --> 00:05:37,128
Seven years later, their--
both cases are reversed

108
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,588
and they come back
for new trials.

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00:05:39,589 --> 00:05:42,049
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

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PAUL: <i>So the district attorney
decided</i>

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00:05:44,510 --> 00:05:48,972
that since the confessions
indicate that the girls,

112
00:05:48,973 --> 00:05:51,767
or at least one of the girls,
was raped,

113
00:05:51,768 --> 00:05:55,604
<i>they might find DNA evidence
to use for a new trial.</i>

114
00:05:55,605 --> 00:05:57,065
INVESTIGATOR:

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00:05:58,024 --> 00:06:01,276
ROB:

116
00:06:01,277 --> 00:06:04,654
PAUL: <i>At the first trial,
they had already done profiling,</i>

117
00:06:04,655 --> 00:06:09,451
and there was no foreign DNA
on those swabs.

118
00:06:09,452 --> 00:06:14,290
That's because at the time
they needed globs of liquids.

119
00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:20,253
<i>But now, they tested it
by kind of a new technology</i>

120
00:06:20,254 --> 00:06:21,714
called Y-STR,

121
00:06:22,882 --> 00:06:26,761
<i>which can find much
smaller amounts of DNA.</i>

122
00:06:28,388 --> 00:06:32,891
The state had gotten knowledge
of this new Y-STR testing

123
00:06:32,892 --> 00:06:35,310
and thought, "This could be it,
'cause now we're not allowed

124
00:06:35,311 --> 00:06:38,021
to use these confessions
against each other.

125
00:06:38,022 --> 00:06:40,649
We're going to prove
with science that he did it."

126
00:06:40,650 --> 00:06:43,819
<i>There's an X chromosome,
and there's a Y chromosome.</i>

127
00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:46,822
<i>If you're XX, you're a female.
If you're XY, you're a male.</i>

128
00:06:46,823 --> 00:06:51,618
<i>Y-STR, what it does
is it ignores the female DNA.</i>

129
00:06:51,619 --> 00:06:53,662
We get a call
from the judge's office saying,

130
00:06:53,663 --> 00:06:56,707
"Hey, can you come
and meet right now?"

131
00:06:57,458 --> 00:06:58,792
<i>When we got there,</i>

132
00:06:58,793 --> 00:07:00,836
<i>prosecutors said, "We have found</i>

133
00:07:00,837 --> 00:07:04,507
a full Y-STR profile
in Amy Ayers."

134
00:07:07,343 --> 00:07:09,511
"And it doesn't match
any of your...

135
00:07:09,512 --> 00:07:11,513
of your defendants.

136
00:07:11,514 --> 00:07:13,850
<i>Your two
or the other two, either."</i>

137
00:07:15,518 --> 00:07:17,353
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

138
00:07:20,857 --> 00:07:22,858
The most important thing
DNA stands for

139
00:07:22,859 --> 00:07:24,985
is it's someone else.

140
00:07:24,986 --> 00:07:28,321
It is not any one
of these four boys.

141
00:07:28,322 --> 00:07:32,617
And so I suppose the state
of Texas now is going to say

142
00:07:32,618 --> 00:07:36,371
that there were really five boys
there instead of four.

143
00:07:36,372 --> 00:07:39,749
Never mind that is inconsistent
with the theories

144
00:07:39,750 --> 00:07:42,752
they used to try them
the first time.

145
00:07:42,753 --> 00:07:45,046
They thought they were going
to get a Y-STR result

146
00:07:45,047 --> 00:07:47,048
and hammer the point home.

147
00:07:47,049 --> 00:07:50,303
Instead, they got the truth
and they can't deal with it.

148
00:07:54,015 --> 00:07:55,599
AMBER FARRELLY:
<i>The theory comes up</i>

149
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,352
by the state of Texas,
"Well, it must be contamination.

150
00:07:59,353 --> 00:08:01,522
Something had to happen
to this sample."

151
00:08:02,148 --> 00:08:04,232
It could be contamination

152
00:08:04,233 --> 00:08:07,320
or it could be
another, uh, person involved.

153
00:08:08,029 --> 00:08:10,071
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

154
00:08:10,072 --> 00:08:12,949
PAUL: <i>So the crime scene
collection procedures</i>

155
00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:14,535
<i>in 1991,</i>

156
00:08:15,411 --> 00:08:18,079
<i>with the lab processing
procedures</i>

157
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,457
<i>and handling procedures.</i>

158
00:08:20,458 --> 00:08:23,752
Y-STR can pick up
cast-off skin cells.

159
00:08:23,753 --> 00:08:28,423
So, anybody that had contact,
was even close to these swabs,

160
00:08:28,424 --> 00:08:30,800
<i>could have contaminated
the evidence.</i>

161
00:08:30,801 --> 00:08:32,761
ANGIE AYERS: <i>You've got to think
of the crime scene.</i>

162
00:08:32,762 --> 00:08:33,845
And you've got, I don't know,

163
00:08:33,846 --> 00:08:36,181
four inches of water
that has flooded.

164
00:08:36,182 --> 00:08:39,309
You've got naked girls
on the floor with water.

165
00:08:39,310 --> 00:08:41,145
It could be anything.
It could be...

166
00:08:41,938 --> 00:08:42,979
I mean, it's a restaurant.

167
00:08:42,980 --> 00:08:45,273
People are in there
all the time.

168
00:08:45,274 --> 00:08:48,235
AMBER: <i>So they began testing
every firefighter</i>

169
00:08:48,236 --> 00:08:51,071
<i>that was there on the scene,
over 50 of them.</i>

170
00:08:51,072 --> 00:08:53,114
<i>Any of the officers
that were there,</i>

171
00:08:53,115 --> 00:08:55,450
<i>any other
law enforcement personnel,</i>

172
00:08:55,451 --> 00:08:58,746
<i>the medical examiner.
They test Amy's father...</i>

173
00:09:00,206 --> 00:09:01,374
<i>her brother...</i>

174
00:09:03,042 --> 00:09:05,378
anybody who else
that they think it could be.

175
00:09:06,712 --> 00:09:08,672
<i>After testing more than 200 men</i>

176
00:09:08,673 --> 00:09:11,341
<i>who just even looked
at this body,</i>

177
00:09:11,342 --> 00:09:13,885
<i>were anywhere near this body,</i>

178
00:09:13,886 --> 00:09:15,637
there's nobody else,

179
00:09:15,638 --> 00:09:18,557
except for maybe somebody
that's not in this pile,

180
00:09:18,558 --> 00:09:20,141
i.e., the real killer.

181
00:09:20,142 --> 00:09:22,644
The idea that it could
be contamination, yes.

182
00:09:22,645 --> 00:09:25,021
It's a possibility.
Is it probable? No.

183
00:09:25,022 --> 00:09:27,817
A full profile inside
a vaginal swab of...

184
00:09:28,359 --> 00:09:30,151
of the youngest victim?

185
00:09:30,152 --> 00:09:33,239
No. That's not contamination.
That's your killer.

186
00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:37,075
(ROADWAY NOISE)

187
00:09:37,076 --> 00:09:40,663
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

188
00:09:42,582 --> 00:09:44,667
Since the original trial
of this case,

189
00:09:46,085 --> 00:09:48,753
new developments
in DNA technology

190
00:09:48,754 --> 00:09:50,089
have become available.

191
00:09:51,007 --> 00:09:52,925
Currently, it is clear to me

192
00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:56,011
that our evidence in the death

193
00:09:56,012 --> 00:10:00,515
of these four young women
includes DNA from one male

194
00:10:00,516 --> 00:10:02,976
whose identity
is not yet known to us.

195
00:10:02,977 --> 00:10:06,646
Given that,
I could not in good conscience

196
00:10:06,647 --> 00:10:08,523
allow this case to go to trial

197
00:10:08,524 --> 00:10:10,942
before the identity
of this male donor

198
00:10:10,943 --> 00:10:14,446
is determined
and the full truth is known.

199
00:10:14,447 --> 00:10:17,199
♪ (RISING TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

200
00:10:25,708 --> 00:10:29,670
(CROWD CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)

201
00:10:31,213 --> 00:10:34,175
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

202
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:37,677
JOE SAWYER: <i>For the first time
in the history</i>

203
00:10:37,678 --> 00:10:40,264
<i>of criminal justice
in the state of Texas,</i>

204
00:10:41,307 --> 00:10:44,225
two young men were released
on personal bond

205
00:10:44,226 --> 00:10:46,646
on four counts
of capital murder.

206
00:10:47,271 --> 00:10:49,189
I determined I couldn't keep

207
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:50,940
those defendants
in jail any longer,

208
00:10:50,941 --> 00:10:53,610
so I let them out
on personal bond

209
00:10:53,611 --> 00:10:56,697
and gave the state a deadline
to be ready to go to trial.

210
00:11:00,117 --> 00:11:02,619
ROSEMARY: <i>I remain confident
that Robert Springsteen</i>

211
00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:05,580
<i>and Michael Scott
are both responsible</i>

212
00:11:05,581 --> 00:11:07,582
<i>for the deaths
at the yogurt shop.</i>

213
00:11:07,583 --> 00:11:08,917
<i>I can assure this community</i>

214
00:11:08,918 --> 00:11:11,294
<i>that we're going to continue
to work on this case</i>

215
00:11:11,295 --> 00:11:12,922
until we take it to trial again.

216
00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:15,715
First thing I told Robert

217
00:11:15,716 --> 00:11:17,425
was that I was sorry
it took so damn long

218
00:11:17,426 --> 00:11:18,968
for this day to come.

219
00:11:18,969 --> 00:11:21,596
He hasn't been free
for over ten years.

220
00:11:21,597 --> 00:11:24,308
The promise I made him
is that he's never going back.

221
00:11:25,101 --> 00:11:26,059
We're going to win this case,

222
00:11:26,060 --> 00:11:27,394
and I don't care
how that's done.

223
00:11:27,395 --> 00:11:29,187
Trial, dismissal, whatever.

224
00:11:29,188 --> 00:11:30,855
REPORTER 6: What does
it feel like to be out?

225
00:11:30,856 --> 00:11:32,899
It's wonderful,
and I'd like to thank God

226
00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:36,570
and my families and my attorney
for this opportunity. Thank you.

227
00:11:37,446 --> 00:11:39,407
(CROWD CHEERS AND APPLAUDS)

228
00:11:40,741 --> 00:11:42,242
REPORTER 7:
<i>Knowing that it is a possibility</i>

229
00:11:42,243 --> 00:11:45,578
<i>a match may never be found
doesn't bother this mom.</i>

230
00:11:45,579 --> 00:11:47,330
The case is still a good case.

231
00:11:47,331 --> 00:11:49,124
We didn't need the DNA
in the first place.

232
00:11:49,125 --> 00:11:51,042
They are going to pay every day
of their life.

233
00:11:51,043 --> 00:11:52,627
(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)

234
00:11:52,628 --> 00:11:54,295
And I would be, if I were there,

235
00:11:54,296 --> 00:11:55,630
I would probably
just stay in the jail

236
00:11:55,631 --> 00:11:59,217
where it's safer for them
because there's a lot of people

237
00:11:59,218 --> 00:12:01,136
who are upset over this.

238
00:12:01,137 --> 00:12:03,973
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

239
00:12:12,606 --> 00:12:14,233
CARLOS:
<i>This case is very simple.</i>

240
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:16,569
It's about a bad interrogation

241
00:12:17,820 --> 00:12:19,654
in which interrogators
crossed the line

242
00:12:19,655 --> 00:12:23,491
into using the kind of tactics
we know cause false confessions.

243
00:12:23,492 --> 00:12:26,035
They suffer from something
called confirmation bias,

244
00:12:26,036 --> 00:12:30,373
which means that they're looking
for any... evidence of guilt

245
00:12:30,374 --> 00:12:32,459
because that's what
they already think.

246
00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:34,669
CLAIRE:
<i>So, this is Carlos Garcia,</i>

247
00:12:34,670 --> 00:12:37,589
<i>and I think what he's doing here</i>

248
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:41,176
is practicing
his opening statement

249
00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:45,930
um, for the retrial,
uh, that would have come up in,

250
00:12:45,931 --> 00:12:50,185
I think it was 2008, 2009
he was doing this.

251
00:12:50,186 --> 00:12:54,606
CARLOS: <i>Trying to get, um,
Michael to remember details.</i>

252
00:12:54,607 --> 00:12:56,942
<i>And Michael gets scared,
and he can't remember.</i>

253
00:12:58,027 --> 00:13:00,028
<i>Well, he's going
to start telling,</i>

254
00:13:00,029 --> 00:13:03,031
<i>"That's the gun, ain't it?
Come on, tell me."</i>

255
00:13:03,032 --> 00:13:05,241
Michael will say,
"Yeah, that's the gun.

256
00:13:05,242 --> 00:13:07,036
The gun he shot the girls with."

257
00:13:09,038 --> 00:13:10,497
Paul Johnson knew,

258
00:13:10,498 --> 00:13:12,999
as he's watching
on that videotape...

259
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,168
He's sitting
in some other room close by,

260
00:13:15,169 --> 00:13:16,711
watching this stuff go down.

261
00:13:16,712 --> 00:13:18,546
And Paul Johnson knows
at that moment

262
00:13:18,547 --> 00:13:20,507
that that's not the gun.

263
00:13:20,508 --> 00:13:22,593
Because Paul Johnson
had it tested.

264
00:13:24,595 --> 00:13:26,763
And the Austin Police Department
ballistics person says,

265
00:13:26,764 --> 00:13:28,681
"It's very unlikely
that this gun that you have,

266
00:13:28,682 --> 00:13:31,726
Paul Johnson, is the gun
that killed those girls."

267
00:13:31,727 --> 00:13:33,812
CLAIRE: I don't think
quite enough emphasis

268
00:13:33,813 --> 00:13:37,273
had been put
in the first trial on...

269
00:13:37,274 --> 00:13:39,484
the fact that the gun
did not match,

270
00:13:39,485 --> 00:13:42,028
that there was really
no physical evidence

271
00:13:42,029 --> 00:13:44,197
linking these boys to the crime.

272
00:13:44,198 --> 00:13:46,741
APD knew that the gun
did not match,

273
00:13:46,742 --> 00:13:49,953
even though they're indicating
in Michael Scott's interrogation

274
00:13:49,954 --> 00:13:52,414
that they had the matching gun.

275
00:13:53,624 --> 00:13:57,085
In 17 years,
since this crime was committed,

276
00:13:57,086 --> 00:14:00,547
not one single atom
of physical evidence

277
00:14:00,548 --> 00:14:04,425
connecting these boys
to that crime scene

278
00:14:04,426 --> 00:14:07,179
has ever been found. Not one.

279
00:14:08,556 --> 00:14:10,598
(SIGHS) How long was that?

280
00:14:10,599 --> 00:14:13,476
- CLAIRE: Uh, 48 minutes.
- Okay.

281
00:14:13,477 --> 00:14:16,063
Yeah, that needs to be cut down
by 20 minutes.

282
00:14:16,814 --> 00:14:17,815
Man.

283
00:14:19,275 --> 00:14:22,569
CARLOS: <i>In my own opinion,
Johnson screwed it up.</i>

284
00:14:22,570 --> 00:14:26,615
Not only did he screw it up,
he hid things that did not fit.

285
00:14:28,868 --> 00:14:31,953
PAUL:
<i>So every test from the lead,</i>

286
00:14:31,954 --> 00:14:33,913
from the bullets
that were in the girls,

287
00:14:33,914 --> 00:14:37,417
they can't say
it really did come

288
00:14:37,418 --> 00:14:40,503
from Maurice's gun
or for sure that it didn't.

289
00:14:40,504 --> 00:14:42,755
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

290
00:14:42,756 --> 00:14:44,632
<i>What Maurice had said was,</i>

291
00:14:44,633 --> 00:14:46,926
"This gun
that I was arrested with

292
00:14:46,927 --> 00:14:51,181
is the gun that Forrest took
to kill the girls."

293
00:14:53,058 --> 00:14:55,518
PAUL: <i>But we have always known</i>

294
00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:58,980
<i>that Maurice had access
to other guns.</i>

295
00:14:58,981 --> 00:15:02,150
<i>So, even though we couldn't
get a positive identification,</i>

296
00:15:02,151 --> 00:15:04,277
it still wouldn't have
cleared Maurice

297
00:15:04,278 --> 00:15:06,363
because we knew
he had other guns.

298
00:15:07,865 --> 00:15:09,324
<i>This gun
that he was arrested with,</i>

299
00:15:09,325 --> 00:15:12,036
<i>it would only be a match
if you believe Maurice.</i>

300
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:15,623
<i>I think I'm an honest person.</i>

301
00:15:16,457 --> 00:15:17,832
<i>I tell the truth.</i>

302
00:15:17,833 --> 00:15:20,043
<i>I think I'm honest
in everything I do,</i>

303
00:15:20,044 --> 00:15:25,507
<i>and I think my investigation
was done in an honest way.</i>

304
00:15:27,885 --> 00:15:31,179
<i>And to me,
the convictions confirmed</i>

305
00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:34,015
<i>what I had always thought,</i>

306
00:15:34,016 --> 00:15:37,518
<i>that not only had they done it,
but that we proved</i>

307
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:40,105
<i>beyond a reasonable doubt
that they had done it.</i>

308
00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:48,405
♪ (INTENSE MUSIC BUILDUP) ♪

309
00:15:52,493 --> 00:15:54,202
REPORTER 8: <i>Michael Scott
and Robert Springsteen</i>

310
00:15:54,203 --> 00:15:56,746
<i>have walked into court dozens
of times before,</i>

311
00:15:56,747 --> 00:16:00,208
<i>but this was the first time
they walked in as free men.</i>

312
00:16:00,209 --> 00:16:02,210
<i>Both men have been
out of jail since June,</i>

313
00:16:02,211 --> 00:16:04,253
<i>when State District Judge
Mike Lynch</i>

314
00:16:04,254 --> 00:16:05,880
<i>released them on bond,</i>

315
00:16:05,881 --> 00:16:07,757
<i>and said prosecutors
had to put up</i>

316
00:16:07,758 --> 00:16:09,301
<i>or shut up by today.</i>

317
00:16:10,719 --> 00:16:12,679
BAILIFF: Courtroom,
come to order, please.
Everyone rise.

318
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,889
167th judicial district court
of Travis County

319
00:16:14,890 --> 00:16:15,932
is now in session.

320
00:16:15,933 --> 00:16:17,308
The honorable
Mike Lynch presiding.

321
00:16:17,309 --> 00:16:18,477
You may be seated.

322
00:16:18,894 --> 00:16:20,229
(CLEARS THROAT)

323
00:16:22,606 --> 00:16:25,358
MIKE LYNCH: Good afternoon.
Uh, we're on the record.

324
00:16:25,359 --> 00:16:27,235
In August,
the court issued an order

325
00:16:27,236 --> 00:16:30,989
due to the unique nature
and circumstances of this case

326
00:16:30,990 --> 00:16:33,992
that set today as a date

327
00:16:33,993 --> 00:16:36,786
for the parties
to announce to the court

328
00:16:36,787 --> 00:16:40,374
whether or not they'd be ready
to begin a jury trial.

329
00:16:42,001 --> 00:16:46,295
Um, as the court is well aware,
the state is conducting testing

330
00:16:46,296 --> 00:16:50,466
to, uh, identify
the male donor

331
00:16:50,467 --> 00:16:53,928
that, uh, we, uh, uncovered
through some Y-STR testing

332
00:16:53,929 --> 00:16:55,596
from one of the vaginal swabs

333
00:16:55,597 --> 00:16:57,598
of one of the victims
in our case.

334
00:16:57,599 --> 00:16:59,434
So because of that, Your Honor,
given the fact

335
00:16:59,435 --> 00:17:01,978
that we have not yet
identified the male donor,

336
00:17:01,979 --> 00:17:03,688
the state sees
no other viable option

337
00:17:03,689 --> 00:17:05,106
at this point, Your Honor,

338
00:17:05,107 --> 00:17:09,027
but to, uh, file a motion
with the court for a dismissal

339
00:17:09,028 --> 00:17:11,070
pending further investigation
of this matter

340
00:17:11,071 --> 00:17:13,448
into the identity
of this male donor.

341
00:17:13,449 --> 00:17:15,074
MIKE:
Anything else you want to say?

342
00:17:15,075 --> 00:17:16,617
EFRAIN DE LA FUENTE: No, sir.

343
00:17:16,618 --> 00:17:20,121
Apparently having no objections,
the court will grant the motions

344
00:17:20,122 --> 00:17:22,999
and as to each indictment,

345
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,169
as to each
of the two defendants.

346
00:17:26,670 --> 00:17:28,337
When the state
wasn't ready by that date

347
00:17:28,338 --> 00:17:29,839
because of
these evidentiary issues,

348
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,007
I pretty much forced them

349
00:17:31,008 --> 00:17:33,635
to dismiss the case
without prejudice.

350
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:37,430
<i>I think we were
just enforcing the law</i>

351
00:17:37,431 --> 00:17:39,099
<i>and doing what was fair.</i>

352
00:17:41,393 --> 00:17:45,396
<i>I can see how most everybody
is unsatisfied...</i>

353
00:17:45,397 --> 00:17:46,482
Excuse me.

354
00:17:48,275 --> 00:17:51,278
...with there being
no final determination.

355
00:17:51,945 --> 00:17:54,155
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

356
00:17:54,156 --> 00:17:55,823
<i>But, I mean,
I'm assuming the defendants</i>

357
00:17:55,824 --> 00:17:58,993
<i>are very happy to be out of jail
and not under charge anymore.</i>

358
00:17:58,994 --> 00:18:00,453
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

359
00:18:00,454 --> 00:18:02,038
REPORTER 9: Mr. Springsteen,
can we talk to you?

360
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,750
No comment right now, please.
(CLEARS THROAT)

361
00:18:06,502 --> 00:18:08,294
JOE: <i>There is no victory here.</i>

362
00:18:08,295 --> 00:18:10,004
<i>The primary question
in this case</i>

363
00:18:10,005 --> 00:18:11,422
<i>has still not been answered.</i>

364
00:18:11,423 --> 00:18:13,591
Who committed these crimes?

365
00:18:13,592 --> 00:18:17,136
Where are those people?
And we need to find them.

366
00:18:17,137 --> 00:18:19,555
Uh, but most of all,
I think we should

367
00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:23,017
reserve our sympathy
and our concern

368
00:18:23,018 --> 00:18:24,311
for the families of those girls.

369
00:18:26,939 --> 00:18:29,149
BOB AYERS: <i>You can go to court,
but you can't get justice.</i>

370
00:18:29,817 --> 00:18:31,526
<i>All you get is the law.</i>

371
00:18:31,527 --> 00:18:34,904
Justice to you may be different
than justice to me

372
00:18:34,905 --> 00:18:38,074
or anybody else
down the street.

373
00:18:38,075 --> 00:18:40,786
- Yeah.
- Justice may be revenge.

374
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:45,916
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

375
00:18:47,042 --> 00:18:49,545
Make no mistake... Uh...

376
00:18:54,883 --> 00:18:57,176
this was a difficult decision

377
00:18:57,177 --> 00:18:59,720
and one I'd rather not have
to make.

378
00:18:59,721 --> 00:19:01,889
But I believe it is
the best legal

379
00:19:01,890 --> 00:19:04,183
and strategic course to take...

380
00:19:04,184 --> 00:19:07,228
to ultimately retry
both Springsteen and Scott.

381
00:19:07,229 --> 00:19:11,399
REPORTER 10:

382
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,319
There is no database for
this particular type of profile.

383
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,613
This is a Y-only profile,

384
00:19:17,614 --> 00:19:19,407
and there's no database
for that.

385
00:19:19,408 --> 00:19:20,491
REPORTER 11: Can you talk about

386
00:19:20,492 --> 00:19:21,909
what this means
for the justice system?

387
00:19:21,910 --> 00:19:24,912
Because either you've let
two murderers
walk out of court today,

388
00:19:24,913 --> 00:19:27,081
or the-- or the wrong guys
have been locked up.

389
00:19:27,082 --> 00:19:28,958
How should people have faith
in the justice system

390
00:19:28,959 --> 00:19:32,295
when neither one of those seems
to be a good outcome, is it?

391
00:19:32,296 --> 00:19:34,130
Twenty-four citizens
of Travis County

392
00:19:34,131 --> 00:19:36,966
have heard this case,
uh, and have convicted

393
00:19:36,967 --> 00:19:38,718
both of these men before.

394
00:19:38,719 --> 00:19:41,387
Uh, this is just
a new turn of events.

395
00:19:41,388 --> 00:19:44,932
Um, we need to keep searching
for the donor of this DNA.

396
00:19:44,933 --> 00:19:47,101
I don't, as I said,
believe it would be fair

397
00:19:47,102 --> 00:19:48,603
to give it to a jury now.

398
00:19:48,604 --> 00:19:51,773
Just ask them
to guess or surmise. Uh...

399
00:19:52,399 --> 00:19:53,609
And so we'll wait.

400
00:19:57,070 --> 00:20:00,823
♪ (PENSIVE PIANO MUSIC
PLAYING) ♪

401
00:20:00,824 --> 00:20:02,033
GUEST 1: How are you?

402
00:20:02,034 --> 00:20:06,538
(GUESTS CHEERING AND APPLAUDING)

403
00:20:07,122 --> 00:20:10,375
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

404
00:20:11,251 --> 00:20:13,753
- Congratulations.
- Thank you.

405
00:20:13,754 --> 00:20:16,381
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

406
00:20:22,763 --> 00:20:27,475
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

407
00:20:27,476 --> 00:20:30,937
FRIEND 1: And, uh, but just now
you looked, uh, confident today.

408
00:20:30,938 --> 00:20:32,439
You looked like...
You looked confident.

409
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:36,818
CLAIRE: So this is his first day
as a free man.

410
00:20:39,071 --> 00:20:42,073
Mostly free,
out of prison anyway.

411
00:20:42,074 --> 00:20:44,242
FRIEND 1: <i>And you look great.
I mean, I think you look good.</i>

412
00:20:44,243 --> 00:20:46,995
<i>I think you look, uh, healthy
and you look...</i>

413
00:20:49,414 --> 00:20:50,831
CLAIRE: Even though the charges

414
00:20:50,832 --> 00:20:53,043
have been dropped
against you now,

415
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:57,505
you're very close to
having been exonerated

416
00:20:57,506 --> 00:20:59,131
in the public view.

417
00:20:59,132 --> 00:21:00,592
I've not been exonerated.

418
00:21:01,677 --> 00:21:03,637
My charges
have only been dismissed.

419
00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:06,014
So, I went...

420
00:21:08,141 --> 00:21:12,521
kind of from one... jail
to another.

421
00:21:13,313 --> 00:21:14,356
Shit.

422
00:21:16,066 --> 00:21:17,316
Fucking 100-dollar pair of pants

423
00:21:17,317 --> 00:21:19,735
and the damn belt
won't even fit in the loops.

424
00:21:19,736 --> 00:21:24,074
It wasn't the exciting thing
that I guess a lot of people

425
00:21:24,825 --> 00:21:26,742
would think that it would be

426
00:21:26,743 --> 00:21:29,704
<i>because you can't
not think about it.</i>

427
00:21:29,705 --> 00:21:33,541
<i>There's always that question,
"Will I ever be exonerated?"</i>

428
00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:35,835
- Hi! It's nice to meet you.
- SPEAKER 1: Producer with us.

429
00:21:35,836 --> 00:21:38,045
Make yourselves at home, um...

430
00:21:38,046 --> 00:21:39,505
I can start
another pot of coffee.

431
00:21:39,506 --> 00:21:41,757
We got Gatorade
and Diet Dr. Pepper

432
00:21:41,758 --> 00:21:45,052
- and, of course, water. So...
- SPEAKER 1: Very sweet.
We're good.

433
00:21:45,053 --> 00:21:47,221
I think we just want to get
a little bit of B-roll,

434
00:21:47,222 --> 00:21:48,889
just, like, sort of
what are you doing

435
00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:51,017
on a daily basis now?

436
00:21:51,018 --> 00:21:53,227
ROBERT SPRINGSTEEN:
This here is my kitchen,

437
00:21:53,228 --> 00:21:55,980
so to speak. Um, I've got
a little toaster oven.

438
00:21:55,981 --> 00:21:57,606
I've got a microwave.

439
00:21:57,607 --> 00:21:59,109
<i>I've got a skillet.</i>

440
00:22:00,694 --> 00:22:03,864
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

441
00:22:05,407 --> 00:22:06,866
ERIN MORIARTY:
<i>Robert Springsteen,</i>

442
00:22:06,867 --> 00:22:08,784
<i>now 35 years old,</i>

443
00:22:08,785 --> 00:22:12,580
<i>he never expected to spend
the past ten years in prison.</i>

444
00:22:12,581 --> 00:22:14,915
There's been
a lot of hoopla and madness

445
00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:16,625
going on here
the last several years

446
00:22:16,626 --> 00:22:19,670
and I would like to get some of
the records set straight on this

447
00:22:19,671 --> 00:22:22,048
and have the people know
the truth.

448
00:22:22,049 --> 00:22:24,133
Were your fingerprints
ever found anywhere

449
00:22:24,134 --> 00:22:25,259
- at the yogurt shop?
- No.

450
00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:26,677
- Your blood?
- No.

451
00:22:26,678 --> 00:22:28,429
- Your DNA?
- No.

452
00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:30,222
- Any hair?
- No.

453
00:22:30,223 --> 00:22:33,059
ERIN: <i>But he does have trouble
explaining why,</i>

454
00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:36,604
<i>after denying for hours
he was involved,</i>

455
00:22:36,605 --> 00:22:39,106
<i>that he finally confessed
to the police.</i>

456
00:22:39,107 --> 00:22:41,776
- How does that happen?
- I don't-- I don't know.

457
00:22:41,777 --> 00:22:43,986
There's-- There's psychological
aspects to it

458
00:22:43,987 --> 00:22:46,198
that I don't understand.

459
00:22:47,991 --> 00:22:51,244
CLAIRE:

460
00:22:56,666 --> 00:22:59,293
In a way, yes, and in a way, no.

461
00:22:59,294 --> 00:23:02,255
I've talked to several attorneys
and several experts,

462
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:04,632
and they've all said,

463
00:23:04,633 --> 00:23:06,802
"You know, it--
It can happen to anybody."

464
00:23:08,053 --> 00:23:10,304
<i>And people
are just now really starting</i>

465
00:23:10,305 --> 00:23:13,682
<i>to find out the truth
about false confessions</i>

466
00:23:13,683 --> 00:23:15,185
<i>and coerced confessions.</i>

467
00:23:18,105 --> 00:23:19,105
(BELLE BARKS)

468
00:23:19,106 --> 00:23:21,316
- Good? Yeah. Kill him, Belle.
- (BELLE BARKS)

469
00:23:22,067 --> 00:23:24,527
Hello, Miss Belle.

470
00:23:24,528 --> 00:23:26,028
JOE: I've told you
all the line, right?

471
00:23:26,029 --> 00:23:28,155
That John Wisser asked me
what line of poetry

472
00:23:28,156 --> 00:23:31,659
I would use to characterize
the end of my case.

473
00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:34,829
And I told him
it was T.S. Eliot, you know?

474
00:23:34,830 --> 00:23:38,541
<i>This is the way
the world will end</i>

475
00:23:38,542 --> 00:23:40,668
<i>Not with a bang, but a whimper</i>

476
00:23:40,669 --> 00:23:42,838
I mean, it's dissatisfying.

477
00:23:43,463 --> 00:23:44,505
It's simply over

478
00:23:44,506 --> 00:23:46,383
because science
doesn't have an opinion.

479
00:23:47,050 --> 00:23:48,385
And here we sit.

480
00:23:49,052 --> 00:23:50,762
And there you go, by God.

481
00:23:51,972 --> 00:23:53,098
You want a cigar?

482
00:23:54,850 --> 00:23:57,143
- No, I'm good, thanks.
- JOE: Okay.

483
00:23:57,144 --> 00:24:00,354
I was just talking
to Judge Lynch this morning.

484
00:24:00,355 --> 00:24:03,316
I mean, this case is over,
but it's never gonna be over.

485
00:24:03,942 --> 00:24:04,942
And, I mean,

486
00:24:04,943 --> 00:24:06,861
that was one of the things
we talked about.

487
00:24:06,862 --> 00:24:10,197
He asked about you
and I told him.

488
00:24:10,198 --> 00:24:11,615
He thinks you're gone.

489
00:24:11,616 --> 00:24:12,992
(BELLE SNARLS)

490
00:24:12,993 --> 00:24:15,703
You know, I just said,
"You're in West Virginia

491
00:24:15,704 --> 00:24:16,954
and I told you

492
00:24:16,955 --> 00:24:19,832
that you're never coming back
to Texas."

493
00:24:19,833 --> 00:24:22,418
The DA's office
believes you're guilty.

494
00:24:22,419 --> 00:24:25,297
The cops, I mean,
are almost rabid about it.

495
00:24:26,131 --> 00:24:27,548
(BELLE SNARLS)

496
00:24:27,549 --> 00:24:29,258
If they could catch you
behind the wheel,

497
00:24:29,259 --> 00:24:31,260
you would not make it
out of Austin.

498
00:24:31,261 --> 00:24:33,721
They would find a reason
to put you in jail.

499
00:24:33,722 --> 00:24:35,514
That's what I'm saying.

500
00:24:35,515 --> 00:24:38,058
Even if the charges
were dropped,

501
00:24:38,059 --> 00:24:40,978
it would be
a sensational news story.

502
00:24:40,979 --> 00:24:43,647
You know,
"Yogurt shop defendant--"

503
00:24:43,648 --> 00:24:45,691
- (BELLE SNARLS)
- Belle, honest to God.

504
00:24:45,692 --> 00:24:47,568
Belle, I am going
to stick you...

505
00:24:47,569 --> 00:24:49,195
(BELLE GROWLS)

506
00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:52,239
No! No, I don't care
what you think.

507
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,866
(BELLE GROWLS)

508
00:24:53,867 --> 00:24:58,288
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

509
00:25:26,816 --> 00:25:28,943
ROBERT: I really like Texas.
I hate to leave,

510
00:25:28,944 --> 00:25:31,446
but it's the best thing
to do right now, so...

511
00:25:32,447 --> 00:25:36,075
CLAIRE:

512
00:25:36,076 --> 00:25:39,286
Well, we don't know for sure
that it is,

513
00:25:39,287 --> 00:25:42,706
but it gives the appearance
of being pretty bad,

514
00:25:42,707 --> 00:25:45,626
and we just don't want there
to be any issues, you know?

515
00:25:45,627 --> 00:25:46,795
So...

516
00:25:47,629 --> 00:25:49,214
it's better to be safe
than sorry.

517
00:25:50,131 --> 00:25:54,051
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

518
00:25:54,052 --> 00:25:55,803
OFFICER 1: (OVER RADIO)
<i>Eastbound N2.</i>

519
00:25:55,804 --> 00:25:57,471
<i>There's a parking lot here.</i>

520
00:25:57,472 --> 00:26:00,559
(POLICE SIRENS BLARING)

521
00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:04,312
(POLICE CHATTER OVER RADIO)

522
00:26:05,814 --> 00:26:09,066
<i>EMS 10-18,
I've got an officer down.</i>

523
00:26:09,067 --> 00:26:11,652
REPORTER 12: <i>What started
as a routine traffic stop</i>

524
00:26:11,653 --> 00:26:13,737
<i>ended with the shooting death
of a man</i>

525
00:26:13,738 --> 00:26:16,156
<i>that had a history
with Austin police.</i>

526
00:26:16,157 --> 00:26:19,577
The officer managed
to fire a single round

527
00:26:19,578 --> 00:26:22,079
that did strike the suspect.

528
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,914
REPORTER 13: <i>We are discovering
the man killed</i>

529
00:26:23,915 --> 00:26:25,666
<i>was Maurice Pierce.</i>

530
00:26:25,667 --> 00:26:28,210
<i>Police say Pierce ran
through a stop sign</i>

531
00:26:28,211 --> 00:26:30,671
and started jumping
over fences to get away

532
00:26:30,672 --> 00:26:31,755
through this neighborhood.

533
00:26:31,756 --> 00:26:33,716
When Wilson
finally caught up with him...

534
00:26:33,717 --> 00:26:35,759
The officer was attempting
to control him

535
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,138
and get him in custody.
He said he felt something wet.

536
00:26:39,139 --> 00:26:41,348
He realized that Maurice
had gotten the--

537
00:26:41,349 --> 00:26:45,019
The knife off of his belt
and had cut his throat.

538
00:26:45,020 --> 00:26:47,771
REPORTER 13: <i>Officer Wilson
is in stable condition.</i>

539
00:26:47,772 --> 00:26:49,857
REPORTER 14: <i>Minutes later,
neighbors called police,</i>

540
00:26:49,858 --> 00:26:52,610
<i>saying the attacker was dead
in a yard down the street.</i>

541
00:26:52,611 --> 00:26:54,069
REPORTER 15:
<i>Maurice Pierce is the name</i>

542
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:56,196
<i>many Austinites know well,</i>

543
00:26:56,197 --> 00:26:58,949
<i>connected to that infamous
yogurt shop murders.</i>

544
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:00,701
REPORTER 16:
<i>Members of Pierce's family say</i>

545
00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:04,038
<i>that past followed him,
saying he didn't trust police.</i>

546
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:06,248
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

547
00:27:06,249 --> 00:27:08,709
Senior Sergeant
of the homicide detective,

548
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:11,713
the next morning, he called me
and I chewed his butt out.

549
00:27:13,131 --> 00:27:15,174
I said, you should have come
and got me that night.

550
00:27:15,175 --> 00:27:17,051
I don't want to hear
Maurice Pierce dead.

551
00:27:17,052 --> 00:27:19,220
I want to see
Maurice Pierce dead.

552
00:27:20,972 --> 00:27:24,224
What I had always hoped
was going to happen,

553
00:27:24,225 --> 00:27:25,768
that we would get evidence

554
00:27:25,769 --> 00:27:30,522
to get him to trial,
and it'd be for capital murder,

555
00:27:30,523 --> 00:27:32,901
and he would get
a life sentence.

556
00:27:33,401 --> 00:27:34,486
So when...

557
00:27:35,737 --> 00:27:38,281
I found out
that he had been killed,

558
00:27:38,948 --> 00:27:40,574
it really didn't bother me,

559
00:27:40,575 --> 00:27:42,951
which may sound harsh,
but it's true.

560
00:27:42,952 --> 00:27:45,372
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

561
00:27:46,122 --> 00:27:47,247
CARLOS: <i>Over the years,</i>

562
00:27:47,248 --> 00:27:49,750
Maurice Pierce
kept talking to the cops,

563
00:27:49,751 --> 00:27:51,418
like, they'd interview him,

564
00:27:51,419 --> 00:27:53,213
and he would always talk
to them.

565
00:27:55,340 --> 00:27:57,050
<i>Pierce was always afraid
of the cops.</i>

566
00:27:57,842 --> 00:27:59,510
<i>They kept bothering him,</i>

567
00:27:59,511 --> 00:28:01,596
<i>'cause he was always
that prime suspect.</i>

568
00:28:02,722 --> 00:28:05,099
<i>Johnson would go up
and bother him and talk to him,</i>

569
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:06,685
<i>and he would always talk.</i>

570
00:28:07,977 --> 00:28:18,196
PAUL:

571
00:28:18,905 --> 00:28:29,374
MAURICE:

572
00:28:29,666 --> 00:28:36,463
MAURICE:

573
00:28:36,464 --> 00:28:43,470
PAUL:

574
00:28:43,471 --> 00:28:44,764
MAURICE:

575
00:28:45,014 --> 00:28:46,306
PAUL:

576
00:28:46,307 --> 00:28:48,476
MAURICE:

577
00:28:49,310 --> 00:28:54,857
PAUL:

578
00:28:54,858 --> 00:28:57,484
MAURICE:

579
00:28:57,485 --> 00:28:58,527
PAUL:

580
00:28:58,528 --> 00:29:09,539
MAURICE:

581
00:29:10,498 --> 00:29:12,082
PAUL:

582
00:29:12,083 --> 00:29:14,293
MAURICE:

583
00:29:14,294 --> 00:29:16,003
PAUL:

584
00:29:16,004 --> 00:29:23,011
MAURICE:

585
00:29:24,262 --> 00:29:26,054
PAUL:

586
00:29:26,055 --> 00:29:27,222
MAURICE:

587
00:29:27,223 --> 00:29:28,390
PAUL:

588
00:29:28,391 --> 00:29:30,894
MAURICE:

589
00:29:34,898 --> 00:29:41,571
PAUL:

590
00:29:42,363 --> 00:29:45,908
PAUL:

591
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:48,702
MAURICE:

592
00:29:48,703 --> 00:29:50,120
PAUL:

593
00:29:50,121 --> 00:29:52,665
MAURICE:

594
00:29:55,043 --> 00:29:58,213
CARLOS:
<i>Pierce died because of his PTSD.</i>

595
00:29:59,547 --> 00:30:01,381
<i>I have no doubt.</i>

596
00:30:01,382 --> 00:30:05,386
If Maurice Pierce doesn't decide
to take a gun to the mall

597
00:30:06,346 --> 00:30:10,224
on December 15th 1991,
he'd still be alive

598
00:30:10,225 --> 00:30:13,520
and none of us would be here
right now talking about this.

599
00:30:14,938 --> 00:30:17,857
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

600
00:30:46,094 --> 00:30:47,594
DAN JACKSON:
<i>I try not to keep,</i>

601
00:30:47,595 --> 00:30:49,388
<i>like, a lot of cop stuff
in my house.</i>

602
00:30:49,389 --> 00:30:51,557
I take my shoes off
at the front door,

603
00:30:51,558 --> 00:30:53,100
just try to leave it
as much as possible.

604
00:30:53,101 --> 00:30:54,601
But then I come home
and work from home

605
00:30:54,602 --> 00:30:55,894
for a couple hours every day.

606
00:30:55,895 --> 00:30:59,023
(CHUCKLES) So I guess it's...
kind of a moot in some sense.

607
00:31:01,109 --> 00:31:02,568
<i>When I was
in the homicide division,</i>

608
00:31:02,569 --> 00:31:04,945
<i>I solved a hundred percent
of my cases.</i>

609
00:31:04,946 --> 00:31:08,407
<i>I left there
with no open casework.</i>

610
00:31:08,408 --> 00:31:09,992
Maybe I jinxed myself,
came over here and like,

611
00:31:09,993 --> 00:31:12,494
"Oh, you think you're good?
Well, here's yogurt shop."

612
00:31:12,495 --> 00:31:13,788
(CHUCKLES)

613
00:31:15,206 --> 00:31:16,498
O.J. Simpson, you needed,

614
00:31:16,499 --> 00:31:18,667
like, a ton of blood, right,
for DNA back then.

615
00:31:18,668 --> 00:31:20,627
That's when DNA became kind of
a household thing,

616
00:31:20,628 --> 00:31:22,296
was the Simpson trial.

617
00:31:22,297 --> 00:31:25,424
And now we're talking picograms,

618
00:31:25,425 --> 00:31:29,011
which is, like, a thousandth
of a nanogram (STUTTERS)

619
00:31:29,012 --> 00:31:30,804
that you can't even see
with the naked eye.

620
00:31:30,805 --> 00:31:32,139
And it seems like

621
00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:34,016
each time you talk
to these labs,

622
00:31:34,017 --> 00:31:35,560
they're able to do more
with less.

623
00:31:37,395 --> 00:31:40,398
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

624
00:31:42,025 --> 00:31:44,444
(CAR KEYS JANGLING)

625
00:31:50,491 --> 00:31:51,992
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

626
00:31:51,993 --> 00:31:53,536
Be real careful.

627
00:31:55,246 --> 00:31:56,372
There you go.

628
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,833
CLAIRE:

629
00:31:59,834 --> 00:32:01,001
DAN: So this is reconstructed

630
00:32:01,002 --> 00:32:03,211
from the crime scene photos
and video.

631
00:32:03,212 --> 00:32:04,338
And, of course,

632
00:32:04,339 --> 00:32:06,006
this is the front where
all the customers would sit

633
00:32:06,007 --> 00:32:07,674
and then the back
where the fire started

634
00:32:07,675 --> 00:32:09,469
and the girls were.

635
00:32:11,346 --> 00:32:12,387
That is the first thing we see

636
00:32:12,388 --> 00:32:13,722
'cause we have
all the girls up here

637
00:32:13,723 --> 00:32:16,684
with a biography about each one.
Um...

638
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:18,518
And this is...

639
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:20,187
Yeah, it's the first thing
you see every morning.

640
00:32:20,188 --> 00:32:23,523
So, it's a reminder
that these girls have histories,

641
00:32:23,524 --> 00:32:27,819
have families, have, you know,
faces and had lives.

642
00:32:27,820 --> 00:32:30,030
And it's not just a case.

643
00:32:30,031 --> 00:32:31,366
It's much more than that.

644
00:32:33,242 --> 00:32:36,954
We have some of the original
yogurt shop material here.

645
00:32:36,955 --> 00:32:40,707
Uh, these two filing cabinets
is full of original material.

646
00:32:40,708 --> 00:32:42,459
And then there's multiple
other filing cabinets

647
00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:43,502
at a different location.

648
00:32:43,503 --> 00:32:46,672
So, just again,
the vastness of this case,

649
00:32:46,673 --> 00:32:50,551
this is only a portion
of some of the hard copies.

650
00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:53,387
Here it is.

651
00:32:53,388 --> 00:32:55,556
So, like, we still have
all the original VHS.

652
00:32:57,058 --> 00:33:00,060
I mean, this is interviews,
this is in-car camera,

653
00:33:00,061 --> 00:33:01,561
this is, like, the original VHS,

654
00:33:01,562 --> 00:33:03,563
and I guess
if we wanted to watch it,

655
00:33:03,564 --> 00:33:06,401
we'd have to find
a VHS player somewhere.

656
00:33:07,235 --> 00:33:10,488
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

657
00:33:18,621 --> 00:33:21,373
DAN:
<i>So we have this unknown DNA...</i>

658
00:33:21,374 --> 00:33:22,791
<i>and I gotta figure out
who that is.</i>

659
00:33:22,792 --> 00:33:24,377
<i>That's goal number one.</i>

660
00:33:25,253 --> 00:33:26,962
It could be contamination,

661
00:33:26,963 --> 00:33:30,924
or it could be another,
uh, person involved.

662
00:33:30,925 --> 00:33:33,343
DAN: <i>What's the probability
that it's contamination?</i>

663
00:33:33,344 --> 00:33:37,305
We have the original '08 profile
that went to one lab.

664
00:33:37,306 --> 00:33:40,017
<i>And then as early as 2017
and 2019,</i>

665
00:33:40,018 --> 00:33:42,769
<i>we're finding that profile
in other places.</i>

666
00:33:42,770 --> 00:33:44,980
A different--
totally different lab.

667
00:33:44,981 --> 00:33:50,153
And totally different,
unrelated pieces of evidence.

668
00:33:51,195 --> 00:33:54,448
So how would you have
contamination

669
00:33:54,449 --> 00:33:57,659
when you've got different areas
of the crime scene,

670
00:33:57,660 --> 00:33:59,661
different people with different
chains of custody,

671
00:33:59,662 --> 00:34:01,621
and these items going
to different labs

672
00:34:01,622 --> 00:34:02,957
in different time periods?

673
00:34:05,626 --> 00:34:07,461
<i>It would be like winning
the lottery repeatedly,</i>

674
00:34:07,462 --> 00:34:11,131
<i>like, the chances of somehow
samples that are unrelated</i>

675
00:34:11,132 --> 00:34:13,467
and handled by different people
in different labs

676
00:34:13,468 --> 00:34:16,303
at different time periods
somehow got contaminated

677
00:34:16,304 --> 00:34:19,014
by the same male profile?

678
00:34:19,015 --> 00:34:21,058
That doesn't--
that does not exist.

679
00:34:21,059 --> 00:34:25,187
So, I suppose the state
of Texas now is going to say

680
00:34:25,188 --> 00:34:28,691
<i>that there were really five boys
there instead of four.</i>

681
00:34:30,568 --> 00:34:31,902
DAN: <i>It's not contamination by,</i>

682
00:34:31,903 --> 00:34:33,403
<i>like, lab personnel
or anybody on the scene,</i>

683
00:34:33,404 --> 00:34:36,323
<i>but to say that
that is our fifth person,</i>

684
00:34:36,324 --> 00:34:38,825
or it shows that the four
were not there at all,

685
00:34:38,826 --> 00:34:39,993
it's some other person,

686
00:34:39,994 --> 00:34:42,162
like, until we figure out
who that profile belongs to,

687
00:34:42,163 --> 00:34:44,665
like, that's just speculation.

688
00:34:44,957 --> 00:34:48,503
CLAIRE:

689
00:34:49,087 --> 00:34:58,804
CLAIRE:

690
00:34:58,805 --> 00:34:59,846
Yeah.

691
00:34:59,847 --> 00:35:14,112
CLAIRE:

692
00:35:14,779 --> 00:35:16,363
Yeah. I...

693
00:35:16,364 --> 00:35:17,824
- CLAIRE: Yeah.
- I'm-- I'm...

694
00:35:19,784 --> 00:35:21,869
staying out of it
until I figure out
who that person is.

695
00:35:24,664 --> 00:35:27,207
<i>It could come back to somebody
totally unrelated to this case,</i>

696
00:35:27,208 --> 00:35:28,542
<i>like, their DNA got transferred</i>

697
00:35:28,543 --> 00:35:30,210
<i>for a totally normal reason,
right?</i>

698
00:35:30,211 --> 00:35:31,378
<i>Like a friend or something.</i>

699
00:35:31,379 --> 00:35:33,213
<i>Or it may be
a complete dead end.</i>

700
00:35:33,214 --> 00:35:34,548
<i>We just don't know.</i>

701
00:35:34,549 --> 00:35:35,924
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

702
00:35:35,925 --> 00:35:39,386
We can't think of DNA as proving
guilt or innocence.

703
00:35:39,387 --> 00:35:42,097
DNA is something that says,
"I have a sample

704
00:35:42,098 --> 00:35:44,891
and I may be able to tell you
who is the source of this sample

705
00:35:44,892 --> 00:35:48,103
<i>or who's not a contributor
of the sample."</i>

706
00:35:48,104 --> 00:35:51,273
<i>But how it got there,
when it got there,</i>

707
00:35:51,274 --> 00:35:53,275
that's up to
the whole investigation

708
00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:54,986
and all the other factors
in that.

709
00:35:57,363 --> 00:35:59,281
<i>Anytime you do a DNA test,</i>

710
00:35:59,282 --> 00:36:01,283
<i>you have to take some
of the sample and use it.</i>

711
00:36:01,284 --> 00:36:04,161
<i>Once we use it,
it's no longer there.</i>

712
00:36:04,162 --> 00:36:07,414
So when you have a DNA sample
and there's very little,

713
00:36:07,415 --> 00:36:08,915
you may only have one shot at it

714
00:36:08,916 --> 00:36:10,625
'cause you may have to use
all of it up.

715
00:36:10,626 --> 00:36:12,419
And then there's
no going back after that.

716
00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:15,672
Here they got a Y-profile
from Jennifer Harbison.

717
00:36:15,673 --> 00:36:17,924
<i>In a lot of ways,
you're pushing the envelope here</i>

718
00:36:17,925 --> 00:36:22,637
to cutting-edge technology,
if not bleeding-edge technology.

719
00:36:22,638 --> 00:36:25,390
So we don't know
if this is going to get

720
00:36:25,391 --> 00:36:29,144
the answer we want,
which is, uh, something,

721
00:36:29,145 --> 00:36:32,647
or it's going to just be,
you know, a waste in that

722
00:36:32,648 --> 00:36:36,526
because no one's done this
on this kind of work before.

723
00:36:36,527 --> 00:36:39,279
It's a last effort
because there's nothing else

724
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,576
the case can use to...
to try to solve the murder.

725
00:36:48,789 --> 00:36:51,875
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

726
00:36:51,876 --> 00:36:53,960
SHEILA WYSOCKI:
<i>Okay, so we, y'all,</i>

727
00:36:53,961 --> 00:36:56,379
<i>we're going to call,
bear with us,</i>

728
00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:59,925
because I'm sorry,
we may be able to solve crimes,

729
00:36:59,926 --> 00:37:02,510
but we can't solve technology,
just saying.

730
00:37:02,511 --> 00:37:03,553
(CHUCKLES)

731
00:37:03,554 --> 00:37:07,307
All right, so this is my crew
right back here.

732
00:37:07,308 --> 00:37:08,975
I told you about.

733
00:37:08,976 --> 00:37:13,688
And they're all so excited
to meet you

734
00:37:13,689 --> 00:37:15,649
'cause I've been bragging
on you.

735
00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:17,567
Okay, we have
a bunch of questions,

736
00:37:17,568 --> 00:37:21,029
but I think that where we want
to start is,

737
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:24,783
what would you do different,
knowing what you know today?

738
00:37:24,784 --> 00:37:27,453
I would have
continued investigating

739
00:37:28,287 --> 00:37:29,996
<i>the creek people,</i>

740
00:37:29,997 --> 00:37:32,415
Mac and the people
that were hanging out

741
00:37:32,416 --> 00:37:34,085
in the creek there with Mac.

742
00:37:34,877 --> 00:37:36,962
<i>Not to look at them as suspects,</i>

743
00:37:36,963 --> 00:37:38,713
<i>but just to get
any other information</i>

744
00:37:38,714 --> 00:37:41,842
because there were
tons of tips about Maurice.

745
00:37:44,512 --> 00:37:45,512
<i>Under the bridge</i>

746
00:37:45,513 --> 00:37:47,597
<i>where these people
were hanging out,</i>

747
00:37:47,598 --> 00:37:50,016
<i>that's where Maurice
told Polanco</i>

748
00:37:50,017 --> 00:37:51,978
<i>they're storing
the communal gun.</i>

749
00:37:52,937 --> 00:37:54,104
<i>This communal gun</i>

750
00:37:54,105 --> 00:37:56,983
<i>is what we suspect
would've been the .380.</i>

751
00:37:58,734 --> 00:38:01,987
POLANCO:

752
00:38:01,988 --> 00:38:04,031
MAURICE:

753
00:38:04,782 --> 00:38:10,371
MAURICE:

754
00:38:11,122 --> 00:38:15,668
POLANCO:

755
00:38:17,545 --> 00:38:19,088
(SCOFFS)

756
00:38:20,881 --> 00:38:22,674
I never knew
that all that was said.

757
00:38:22,675 --> 00:38:24,552
That is insane. Yeah.

758
00:38:25,511 --> 00:38:27,762
I don't even know
how to respond to that.

759
00:38:27,763 --> 00:38:31,182
But, I mean, you know,
we said the guy,

760
00:38:31,183 --> 00:38:32,892
Mace, who lived
in North Cross Apartments

761
00:38:32,893 --> 00:38:36,062
with his mom, I mean,
he's got to be talking about me.

762
00:38:36,063 --> 00:38:37,731
MAC: Yes, that would have been
this apartment,

763
00:38:37,732 --> 00:38:40,483
- but on the other side.
- KEVIN PARLIN: This exactly?

764
00:38:40,484 --> 00:38:42,152
MAC: <i>I don't know
that anybody else</i>

765
00:38:42,153 --> 00:38:43,778
<i>lived in North Cross Apartments</i>

766
00:38:43,779 --> 00:38:46,781
with their mom that was me,
you know, a--

767
00:38:46,782 --> 00:38:49,701
a "skinhead," whatever.

768
00:38:49,702 --> 00:38:51,745
I never thought I'd be back
here again. This is...

769
00:38:51,746 --> 00:38:53,538
KEVIN: Yeah, I feel like
my childhood's

770
00:38:53,539 --> 00:38:54,790
coming to haunt me.

771
00:39:01,088 --> 00:39:02,840
MAC: I feel like
this was the spot.

772
00:39:03,716 --> 00:39:05,008
Yeah, the yogurt shop's what,

773
00:39:05,009 --> 00:39:07,302
a two-minute walk
right over there?

774
00:39:07,303 --> 00:39:10,347
What is it,
a couple thousand yards?

775
00:39:10,348 --> 00:39:12,265
I mean, really, really close.

776
00:39:12,266 --> 00:39:13,933
Uh, the mall is just
on the other side

777
00:39:13,934 --> 00:39:15,769
of these apartments,
pretty much.

778
00:39:15,770 --> 00:39:17,479
But I feel like
there's been a lot of erosion.

779
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,022
I think it was...

780
00:39:19,023 --> 00:39:20,732
KEVIN: I think we would have
just been down here

781
00:39:20,733 --> 00:39:21,941
to hide and drink beer.

782
00:39:21,942 --> 00:39:23,234
- CLAIRE: Yeah.
- KEVIN: That's it.

783
00:39:23,235 --> 00:39:26,071
CLAIRE:

784
00:39:26,072 --> 00:39:28,448
- That is complete horseshit.
- MAC: I've been asked
about that.

785
00:39:28,449 --> 00:39:29,616
That is so ludicrous.

786
00:39:29,617 --> 00:39:31,117
MAC:

787
00:39:31,118 --> 00:39:34,371
And they also asked me
for a current DNA sample

788
00:39:34,372 --> 00:39:37,123
'cause I think they said
they lost the original one, so.

789
00:39:37,124 --> 00:39:40,168
So number one,
we didn't have money, right?

790
00:39:40,169 --> 00:39:43,797
So, if we had the money
to purchase said gun,

791
00:39:43,798 --> 00:39:46,299
we weren't leaving it
in the creek.

792
00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:49,719
So, this idea
of some shared community gun

793
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:51,513
is absolute absurdity.

794
00:39:51,514 --> 00:39:52,972
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

795
00:39:52,973 --> 00:39:55,308
<i>I think we had a lot of bravado</i>

796
00:39:55,309 --> 00:39:58,311
<i>and we wanted to be tough
and cool, but we weren't.</i>

797
00:39:58,312 --> 00:40:01,981
<i>You know. We weren't evil.
We never hurt anybody.</i>

798
00:40:01,982 --> 00:40:04,527
<i>And, uh, yeah.</i>

799
00:40:06,737 --> 00:40:09,572
<i>In my experience,
people don't want to hear</i>

800
00:40:09,573 --> 00:40:12,575
<i>that there's inherently
evil people in the world</i>

801
00:40:12,576 --> 00:40:14,411
<i>and that the vast majority of us</i>

802
00:40:14,412 --> 00:40:16,287
are neither good nor evil,

803
00:40:16,288 --> 00:40:18,373
but we'll kind of
go whatever way,

804
00:40:18,374 --> 00:40:23,044
which may in part explain
what happened up there, right?

805
00:40:23,045 --> 00:40:26,090
Somebody was evil
and somebody went along.

806
00:40:26,757 --> 00:40:28,091
I think the part I struggle with

807
00:40:28,092 --> 00:40:30,218
is how did that person
who went along never,

808
00:40:30,219 --> 00:40:32,846
ever spill the beans, right?

809
00:40:32,847 --> 00:40:35,181
How did they never,
ever come clean?

810
00:40:35,182 --> 00:40:37,851
<i>Because yeah, somebody was evil,</i>

811
00:40:37,852 --> 00:40:41,147
<i>but I tend to believe people
will kind of go whatever way.</i>

812
00:40:42,982 --> 00:40:45,192
<i>I don't ever want
to be one of those people.</i>

813
00:40:54,702 --> 00:40:56,202
LAURA GONZALES:
<i>Everyone, I think a really nice,</i>

814
00:40:56,203 --> 00:40:58,329
<i>good circle all the way around.</i>

815
00:40:58,330 --> 00:41:00,082
Everybody join hands, please.

816
00:41:01,292 --> 00:41:03,961
We thank you, man up above.

817
00:41:05,379 --> 00:41:07,755
We are so grateful
you've brought us here.

818
00:41:07,756 --> 00:41:10,049
We ask that you keep
everybody here healthy

819
00:41:10,050 --> 00:41:12,802
and that today we find
some peace and closure.

820
00:41:12,803 --> 00:41:15,388
- In Jesus's name, amen.
- Amen.

821
00:41:15,389 --> 00:41:17,223
Let's pull this away
because the capsule,

822
00:41:17,224 --> 00:41:19,726
I could tell, is there
'cause look, watch.

823
00:41:19,727 --> 00:41:21,436
- SHAWN: Oh, yeah.
- LAURA: So, it's there.

824
00:41:21,437 --> 00:41:24,565
So, let's move this over there.
Be careful.

825
00:41:26,025 --> 00:41:27,735
ANGIE:
We'll put it back where it was.

826
00:41:29,445 --> 00:41:31,529
LAURA: Was it concrete
or was it a box?

827
00:41:31,530 --> 00:41:33,282
PAM: I can't remember.

828
00:41:34,158 --> 00:41:36,034
I remember them doing it.

829
00:41:36,035 --> 00:41:38,204
BOB: There's something there.
I don't know what it is.

830
00:41:38,913 --> 00:41:41,582
(SHOVEL SCRAPES THE GROUND)

831
00:41:43,334 --> 00:41:44,960
BOB: I don't know
if that's it or not.

832
00:41:47,087 --> 00:41:49,923
- PAM: You don't remember?
- FRIEND 2: I don't remember.

833
00:41:49,924 --> 00:41:52,884
- That year was a whole fog.
- PAM: Yeah. Yeah.

834
00:41:52,885 --> 00:41:55,429
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

835
00:41:56,096 --> 00:41:59,225
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

836
00:42:01,268 --> 00:42:03,728
- Ooh.
- Yeah.

837
00:42:03,729 --> 00:42:05,689
- What are you doin'?
- I don't know.

838
00:42:06,273 --> 00:42:09,484
(SHOVEL SCOOPS SOIL)

839
00:42:09,485 --> 00:42:13,280
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

840
00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:15,865
DAN: With all these roots here,

841
00:42:15,866 --> 00:42:17,450
I don't think
it's going to be here.

842
00:42:17,451 --> 00:42:21,287
I don't either.
Maybe it's over here.

843
00:42:21,288 --> 00:42:22,747
ANGIE: Yeah, I wonder
if it's under here.

844
00:42:22,748 --> 00:42:23,957
BOB: Doesn't make any sense
that the--

845
00:42:23,958 --> 00:42:25,625
LAURA: Yes, she thinks
it was off to the side

846
00:42:25,626 --> 00:42:26,709
of the courtyard.

847
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:29,546
And even the parents
are not very sure,

848
00:42:29,547 --> 00:42:32,298
so do you think you know?
Can you help me?

849
00:42:32,299 --> 00:42:35,469
♪ (SENTIMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

850
00:42:48,482 --> 00:42:50,650
"Best buds always," yeah.

851
00:42:50,651 --> 00:42:55,655
"Amy Ayers, 2/21/92,
Mr. Sun's yearbook sponsor."

852
00:42:55,656 --> 00:42:57,323
(TAPPING ON DECAYED CAPSULE)

853
00:42:57,324 --> 00:42:59,158
- LAURA: Here we go.
- DAN: Got it going?

854
00:42:59,159 --> 00:43:01,412
- There we go. Damn!
- LAURA: Dan, watch out.

855
00:43:05,791 --> 00:43:07,918
- Oh, man. What a mess.
- BOB: Newspaper.

856
00:43:12,047 --> 00:43:14,465
DAN: Something's in
a plastic bag in there.

857
00:43:14,466 --> 00:43:16,844
BOB: Bring that trash can
over here and we...

858
00:43:18,387 --> 00:43:21,514
LAURA: That the ribbons? Uh-huh.
That's off the tree.

859
00:43:21,515 --> 00:43:23,516
- PAM: Oh, wow.
- LAURA: That's what those are.

860
00:43:23,517 --> 00:43:27,520
The ribbons off the tree
when they planted it. Uh-huh.

861
00:43:27,521 --> 00:43:29,022
FRIEND 3:
<i>I do see some names there.</i>

862
00:43:29,023 --> 00:43:30,898
LAURA: <i>Yeah, they tied them
on there when they planted it.</i>

863
00:43:30,899 --> 00:43:33,401
<i>- "We will-- we will not forget."</i>
- BOB: <i>Right.</i>

864
00:43:33,402 --> 00:43:35,695
LAURA: This was the box.

865
00:43:35,696 --> 00:43:37,363
KATE AYERS: I think it's nice
for them to know

866
00:43:37,364 --> 00:43:39,365
that they weren't alone
in all of it,

867
00:43:39,366 --> 00:43:41,743
even if they felt
that they were.

868
00:43:41,744 --> 00:43:45,371
'Cause it's obvious that
a lot of people really loved her

869
00:43:45,372 --> 00:43:47,374
and thought of her a lot.

870
00:43:50,002 --> 00:43:51,044
BOB: That's her.

871
00:43:51,045 --> 00:43:52,712
FRIEND 2: Because one time

872
00:43:52,713 --> 00:43:54,714
when we were
in elementary school,

873
00:43:54,715 --> 00:43:56,257
I don't know if she was in...

874
00:43:56,258 --> 00:43:59,136
If it dries out,
you can tell more about it.

875
00:44:00,220 --> 00:44:02,639
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

876
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,557
KATE: <i>I remember
not knowing pieces of it,</i>

877
00:44:04,558 --> 00:44:07,310
but I feel like I've always
known about it.

878
00:44:07,311 --> 00:44:09,228
Mm, at my grandparents' house,

879
00:44:09,229 --> 00:44:11,939
they have, like, a pillow
and it has her on it.

880
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:14,025
And I'd always wonder
who she was.

881
00:44:14,026 --> 00:44:16,027
And then they have
a whole hallway,

882
00:44:16,028 --> 00:44:17,236
and the whole hallway

883
00:44:17,237 --> 00:44:20,240
<i>has a bunch of different things
with her on it.</i>

884
00:44:21,909 --> 00:44:23,910
<i>I don't know,
you see how it affects them.</i>

885
00:44:23,911 --> 00:44:26,788
<i>Dad doesn't really
talk about it a lot.</i>

886
00:44:26,789 --> 00:44:30,042
It's usually Mom yelling
at people about it, but...

887
00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:35,088
I don't know, you kind of wonder
how they'd be,

888
00:44:35,089 --> 00:44:37,548
<i>how he'd be,
if it hadn't happened.</i>

889
00:44:37,549 --> 00:44:39,385
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

890
00:44:40,594 --> 00:44:45,391
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

891
00:44:48,769 --> 00:44:51,979
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

892
00:44:51,980 --> 00:44:55,943
BOB: Well...
another chapter closed.

893
00:44:57,569 --> 00:45:00,364
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

894
00:45:05,494 --> 00:45:06,828
SONORA THOMAS:
<i>There's so many ways</i>

895
00:45:06,829 --> 00:45:09,414
<i>the loss of my sister,
30 years later,</i>

896
00:45:09,415 --> 00:45:12,250
<i>shows up in my adult life.</i>

897
00:45:12,251 --> 00:45:15,503
My name is Sonora,
and I'm a therapist.

898
00:45:15,504 --> 00:45:17,756
I'm in private practice
in Massachusetts.

899
00:45:19,007 --> 00:45:21,300
<i>One thing that really drew me
to this kind of work</i>

900
00:45:21,301 --> 00:45:24,637
<i>is that I've spent so much
of my life trying to heal.</i>

901
00:45:24,638 --> 00:45:28,182
In the very beginning
when you lost your child,

902
00:45:28,183 --> 00:45:30,977
I want to look at
a little bit about

903
00:45:30,978 --> 00:45:34,313
what that initial experience
was like for you.

904
00:45:34,314 --> 00:45:37,692
<i>I think there's benefit
to telling the story</i>

905
00:45:37,693 --> 00:45:40,153
<i>in different settings,
in different ways.</i>

906
00:45:40,154 --> 00:45:41,946
I wanted to give you

907
00:45:41,947 --> 00:45:43,364
a chance to write
a letter to your child.

908
00:45:43,365 --> 00:45:46,075
It could be what's happening
in your life in this moment.

909
00:45:46,076 --> 00:45:49,997
<i>But I don't think the trauma
ever loses its potency.</i>

910
00:45:51,081 --> 00:45:52,498
Like when you ask me,

911
00:45:52,499 --> 00:45:53,833
"Can I remember
the yogurt shop?"

912
00:45:53,834 --> 00:45:57,003
Like, I can feel
my body changing

913
00:45:57,004 --> 00:46:00,632
when I have that memory,
you know? Um...

914
00:46:03,010 --> 00:46:07,514
And so... I don't--
You know, that may never change.

915
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:11,184
BARBARA: <i>Well, it's 31 years</i>

916
00:46:11,185 --> 00:46:13,019
<i>and we're still talking
about this stuff,</i>

917
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:15,271
<i>and I-- I try not to.</i>

918
00:46:15,272 --> 00:46:16,647
<i>Quite frankly,
I probably wouldn't have</i>

919
00:46:16,648 --> 00:46:18,566
<i>- if I weren't talking to you.</i>
- SONORA: <i>Right.</i>

920
00:46:18,567 --> 00:46:20,611
BARBARA: <i>But I needed
that connection with you.</i>

921
00:46:22,279 --> 00:46:24,280
SONORA: Yesterday,
we were talking about

922
00:46:24,281 --> 00:46:27,700
living through this experience,
you begin to know things

923
00:46:27,701 --> 00:46:29,911
that other people don't know.

924
00:46:29,912 --> 00:46:32,789
And I don't think it works
that way for everybody.

925
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:33,873
No.

926
00:46:33,874 --> 00:46:36,709
SONORA: Because some people

927
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:40,379
that I know in my family
became more cynical.

928
00:46:40,380 --> 00:46:41,964
I can't quite find
the words for it,

929
00:46:41,965 --> 00:46:44,675
and I've been trying to find
the words for myself too,

930
00:46:44,676 --> 00:46:47,720
like, why these
tragic experiences

931
00:46:47,721 --> 00:46:50,515
opened me up
to love people more.

932
00:46:50,516 --> 00:46:53,059
- BARBARA: Mm-hmm.
- Because it could do
the opposite.

933
00:46:53,060 --> 00:46:55,478
By the way, they both happen.

934
00:46:55,479 --> 00:46:57,063
SONORA:
Yeah, tell me about that.

935
00:46:57,064 --> 00:46:59,065
- Both of those things happen.
- SONORA: Yeah.

936
00:46:59,066 --> 00:47:02,735
You do get really bitchy
and cynical about stuff,

937
00:47:02,736 --> 00:47:04,195
but then you also,

938
00:47:04,196 --> 00:47:06,447
you feel like
you're on the other side.

939
00:47:06,448 --> 00:47:08,407
You got closer to the love.

940
00:47:08,408 --> 00:47:11,619
It's amazing the tools
that we have to use

941
00:47:11,620 --> 00:47:14,580
to heal ourselves,
and we rarely use them.

942
00:47:14,581 --> 00:47:16,582
We get so close to the pain

943
00:47:16,583 --> 00:47:19,001
that it's more comfortable
to be there

944
00:47:19,002 --> 00:47:23,089
than it is to go to the light,
to where the freedom is.

945
00:47:23,090 --> 00:47:24,423
SONORA: Yeah, I hear that a lot

946
00:47:24,424 --> 00:47:26,259
in the trauma groups
that I work with.

947
00:47:26,260 --> 00:47:27,802
"I don't like this,

948
00:47:27,803 --> 00:47:30,847
but I'm afraid I don't know
what else there is.

949
00:47:30,848 --> 00:47:32,390
And this is something
that I know.

950
00:47:32,391 --> 00:47:33,599
I know how to do this.

951
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,101
I know how to hold on
to this pain.

952
00:47:35,102 --> 00:47:36,769
I know how to live
with this pain."

953
00:47:36,770 --> 00:47:38,771
I have this saying
that when I die

954
00:47:38,772 --> 00:47:43,109
I hope I'm brave
and that I can jump into it.

955
00:47:43,110 --> 00:47:45,736
- I want the freedom...
- Mm. Mm.

956
00:47:45,737 --> 00:47:49,115
...to fall into that next thing,
whatever that is.

957
00:47:49,116 --> 00:47:50,616
SONORA: Right,
to let go of the fear.

958
00:47:50,617 --> 00:47:51,951
Mm-hmm. Let go of the fear.

959
00:47:51,952 --> 00:47:54,453
JAMES: I think one of
the hard things,

960
00:47:54,454 --> 00:47:57,123
and I'm realizing
30 years later,

961
00:47:57,124 --> 00:47:59,166
is figuring out
how to live your life

962
00:47:59,167 --> 00:48:02,962
and live the life you want
to live, after all this.

963
00:48:02,963 --> 00:48:05,131
- Mm-hmm.
- You know,
not that you shouldn't care,

964
00:48:05,132 --> 00:48:08,467
not that you shouldn't,
whatever, but you know you gotta

965
00:48:08,468 --> 00:48:11,971
figure out what you love to do
and what you want to do.

966
00:48:11,972 --> 00:48:13,514
BARBARA: Mm-hmm.

967
00:48:13,515 --> 00:48:14,641
SONORA: Right.

968
00:48:16,184 --> 00:48:17,311
Yeah.

969
00:48:20,105 --> 00:48:21,815
(QUIVERING VOICE)
And it's really hard.

970
00:48:24,693 --> 00:48:27,820
But I think it's very important.
I mean, I went back to school...

971
00:48:27,821 --> 00:48:29,364
- BARBARA: Mm-hmm.
- ...ten years on,

972
00:48:30,657 --> 00:48:32,826
went into engineering,
which I love.

973
00:48:33,994 --> 00:48:35,912
And I think the hard part

974
00:48:35,913 --> 00:48:39,165
with homicide is you get tied
into the whole investigation.

975
00:48:39,166 --> 00:48:41,208
- SONORA: Right.
- And is it good? Is it bad?

976
00:48:41,209 --> 00:48:44,337
Did somebody screw up?
Blah, blah, blah. You know...

977
00:48:44,338 --> 00:48:46,505
(SCOFFS) You know, it wasn't
until I went to an actual

978
00:48:46,506 --> 00:48:50,384
focused grief group
that I really liberated myself.

979
00:48:50,385 --> 00:48:52,470
And I was invited because my dad
had died that year.

980
00:48:52,471 --> 00:48:55,264
And it's like, well,
that was pretty trivial.

981
00:48:55,265 --> 00:48:58,225
I hate to say it. He was 85.
He'd been sick for a long time.

982
00:48:58,226 --> 00:49:01,021
I spent the whole grief group
talking about Eliza.

983
00:49:04,316 --> 00:49:08,361
And that was very liberating,
to actually focus on the grief.

984
00:49:08,362 --> 00:49:11,656
And I think you deny that
in the homicide stuff.

985
00:49:11,657 --> 00:49:14,158
- SONORA: Right.
- JAMES: Which is all necessary.

986
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:15,910
But it's not necessary
for us to do it.

987
00:49:15,911 --> 00:49:17,536
JAMES: Not necessary
for me to do it.

988
00:49:17,537 --> 00:49:19,038
- Yeah.
- SONORA: Right.

989
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:20,665
BARBARA:
<i>I agree with that so much</i>

990
00:49:20,666 --> 00:49:22,875
<i>because we thought
we were doing the right thing</i>

991
00:49:22,876 --> 00:49:24,961
<i>to be in public with this</i>

992
00:49:24,962 --> 00:49:27,213
<i>because we needed
to keep it out in the public</i>

993
00:49:27,214 --> 00:49:28,714
<i>so that we would still have</i>

994
00:49:28,715 --> 00:49:30,758
<i>the support of the community
and they could love us</i>

995
00:49:30,759 --> 00:49:32,802
<i>and help us find these people.</i>

996
00:49:32,803 --> 00:49:35,471
<i>You know,
every time anything happened,</i>

997
00:49:35,472 --> 00:49:36,555
<i>we had cameras.</i>

998
00:49:36,556 --> 00:49:40,936
<i>And as time goes on,
it takes a toll on you.</i>

999
00:49:42,104 --> 00:49:43,562
It's been 31 years.

1000
00:49:43,563 --> 00:49:46,733
I would not do it the same way.

1001
00:49:48,443 --> 00:49:51,070
<i>I would retreat and go far away</i>

1002
00:49:51,071 --> 00:49:53,031
<i>and have some quiet time
with God.</i>

1003
00:49:55,534 --> 00:49:57,576
<i>But the thing that
we have to be careful about,</i>

1004
00:49:57,577 --> 00:49:59,954
<i>because ours has been so public,</i>

1005
00:49:59,955 --> 00:50:03,457
most people don't have
the support of the community.

1006
00:50:03,458 --> 00:50:05,167
- SONORA: Right.
- BARBARA:
<i>Their brother gets killed</i>

1007
00:50:05,168 --> 00:50:07,086
<i>and no one
ever speaks to them about it</i>

1008
00:50:07,087 --> 00:50:08,380
<i>and they don't use
his name anymore.</i>

1009
00:50:09,881 --> 00:50:11,090
<i>You need that love.</i>

1010
00:50:11,091 --> 00:50:13,427
<i>You need to be held
when you're suffering.</i>

1011
00:50:14,386 --> 00:50:15,761
<i>But that was
the double-edged sword</i>

1012
00:50:15,762 --> 00:50:16,972
<i>of the public.</i>

1013
00:50:18,056 --> 00:50:20,266
We got a lot of attention early

1014
00:50:20,267 --> 00:50:22,143
'cause it was hot news.
Hot news.

1015
00:50:22,144 --> 00:50:23,894
Four White girls got killed.

1016
00:50:23,895 --> 00:50:25,396
And, uh...

1017
00:50:25,397 --> 00:50:27,773
and-- and the case, well,
we don't know about the case.

1018
00:50:27,774 --> 00:50:28,941
What do we know about the case?

1019
00:50:28,942 --> 00:50:32,154
Whatever they tell us,
we take it for face value.

1020
00:50:32,988 --> 00:50:34,572
Because it's...

1021
00:50:34,573 --> 00:50:37,116
Yeah, I would have taken
a step back a little bit more,

1022
00:50:37,117 --> 00:50:38,242
I think, that I'd--

1023
00:50:38,243 --> 00:50:41,580
but I felt such an obligation
to carry this thing out.

1024
00:50:43,623 --> 00:50:46,459
CLAIRE:

1025
00:50:46,460 --> 00:50:47,793
- Okay.
- BARBARA: These two?

1026
00:50:47,794 --> 00:50:48,919
- These two?
- SONORA: Just us two.

1027
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,004
CLAIRE: Actually, no, y'all two.

1028
00:50:50,005 --> 00:50:51,630
She needs a wide lens
from just us.

1029
00:50:51,631 --> 00:50:54,216
CLAIRE:

1030
00:50:54,217 --> 00:50:55,843
Wasn't he sweet? He's so good.

1031
00:50:55,844 --> 00:50:57,344
SONORA: (CHUCKLES)

1032
00:50:57,345 --> 00:50:58,929
I knew I was better if I did it.

1033
00:50:58,930 --> 00:51:00,473
Yeah, and when he wants
to share

1034
00:51:00,474 --> 00:51:01,515
what his experience is--

1035
00:51:01,516 --> 00:51:03,809
- And he did.
- But he's scared, yeah.

1036
00:51:03,810 --> 00:51:05,978
I was glad.
It made me feel good.

1037
00:51:05,979 --> 00:51:08,315
Yeah, I know.
I'm so glad. Yeah.

1038
00:51:09,691 --> 00:51:10,942
Yeah.

1039
00:51:18,492 --> 00:51:19,701
I just... (CRIES)

1040
00:51:20,786 --> 00:51:23,288
I just... (CRIES, SNIFFLES)

1041
00:51:28,043 --> 00:51:30,169
Just put all this away
for a while.

1042
00:51:30,170 --> 00:51:32,171
It's been a tough couple of days

1043
00:51:32,172 --> 00:51:34,673
just to get going through
all this again.

1044
00:51:34,674 --> 00:51:37,676
But I love you and I appreciate
the opportunity to do it.

1045
00:51:37,677 --> 00:51:40,388
You have given me a huge gift.

1046
00:51:41,389 --> 00:51:43,057
By talking to me
the last few days,

1047
00:51:43,058 --> 00:51:44,850
I cannot thank you enough.

1048
00:51:44,851 --> 00:51:47,270
I learned so much from you.

1049
00:51:50,482 --> 00:51:53,359
- I hope all this helps somebody.
- It helps me.

1050
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:54,777
That's the only person
I care about.

1051
00:51:54,778 --> 00:51:56,195
Yeah, it helps me a lot.

1052
00:51:56,196 --> 00:51:57,655
I'm just so grateful

1053
00:51:57,656 --> 00:52:00,199
that you're sharing
your experience with me.

1054
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,535
I don't have my mom to talk to,
but I can talk to you.

1055
00:52:02,536 --> 00:52:06,872
Well, one crazy-ass old lady
to the next one.

1056
00:52:06,873 --> 00:52:09,667
- It should blend really well.
- Right? Yeah, exactly.

1057
00:52:09,668 --> 00:52:13,003
- It should be the same person.
- Yeah, right.

1058
00:52:13,004 --> 00:52:14,755
BARBARA: All right.
Are y'all done with this?

1059
00:52:14,756 --> 00:52:16,924
Did you get the wide shot?

1060
00:52:16,925 --> 00:52:23,390
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1061
00:52:29,020 --> 00:52:30,605
DAN:
All right, we're here.

1062
00:52:31,898 --> 00:52:34,901
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1063
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,781
It's just hard to see.

1064
00:52:46,788 --> 00:52:48,914
The pictures on the wall,
these are some of the cases

1065
00:52:48,915 --> 00:52:50,624
that we've solved
over the years.

1066
00:52:50,625 --> 00:52:53,043
BOB: How old were
some of the cases? Very old?

1067
00:52:53,044 --> 00:52:56,715
DAN: Yeah, most of them
are from the '80s and '90s.

1068
00:53:00,051 --> 00:53:02,261
I'm sure you've heard
the same different kind of spiel

1069
00:53:02,262 --> 00:53:03,804
from every detective
for the last 30 years

1070
00:53:03,805 --> 00:53:05,264
about "we're working hard,"
you know,

1071
00:53:05,265 --> 00:53:07,933
"we're working on it,"
and I'm just the newest guy,

1072
00:53:07,934 --> 00:53:10,686
uh, but I want you to know

1073
00:53:10,687 --> 00:53:13,440
that I'm throwing
everything I can at this.

1074
00:53:14,274 --> 00:53:17,109
The DNA is, uh...

1075
00:53:17,110 --> 00:53:20,154
really the crux
of where we're going with it.

1076
00:53:20,155 --> 00:53:23,824
We're continuing to reevaluate
every piece of evidence

1077
00:53:23,825 --> 00:53:26,620
um, because
what may have been...

1078
00:53:28,163 --> 00:53:32,333
untestable a few years ago
because of what it's made of,

1079
00:53:32,334 --> 00:53:33,667
or its condition, or whatever,

1080
00:53:33,668 --> 00:53:36,295
may or may not be
something we can do now.

1081
00:53:36,296 --> 00:53:38,964
We've got a finite amount. Um...

1082
00:53:38,965 --> 00:53:40,299
It's my decision
as the lead detective,

1083
00:53:40,300 --> 00:53:41,300
but I'm not making it alone.

1084
00:53:41,301 --> 00:53:42,676
I'm bringing in people
way smarter than me

1085
00:53:42,677 --> 00:53:43,928
when it comes to DNA.

1086
00:53:43,929 --> 00:53:45,804
Um, some of the experts
across the country

1087
00:53:45,805 --> 00:53:47,973
that, uh, provide advice
to make sure

1088
00:53:47,974 --> 00:53:50,476
that when we move forward

1089
00:53:50,477 --> 00:53:53,354
with trying to test something
or trying...

1090
00:53:53,355 --> 00:53:55,856
to use some DNA up,
that we're at the best odds.

1091
00:53:55,857 --> 00:53:57,024
And if we don't have great odds,

1092
00:53:57,025 --> 00:53:59,109
then we'll just hold on
for a little bit.

1093
00:53:59,110 --> 00:54:00,486
If there's any questions
you have for me,

1094
00:54:00,487 --> 00:54:03,531
of course, I'll be happy
to answer them best I can.

1095
00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:06,493
It's nice to get some...

1096
00:54:08,370 --> 00:54:09,995
some info.

1097
00:54:09,996 --> 00:54:11,497
ANGIE: We've said this
over the years

1098
00:54:11,498 --> 00:54:13,958
is that it was always nice
to have fresh eyes on it.

1099
00:54:13,959 --> 00:54:16,293
We can communicate
as family members

1100
00:54:16,294 --> 00:54:17,711
and police department

1101
00:54:17,712 --> 00:54:20,632
and hopefully solve this
at the end of the day.

1102
00:54:22,592 --> 00:54:24,134
DAN: <i>I'm very hopeful.</i>

1103
00:54:24,135 --> 00:54:27,221
<i>I am confident that technology
is moving at a pace</i>

1104
00:54:27,222 --> 00:54:28,722
<i>that we will be at a point</i>

1105
00:54:28,723 --> 00:54:31,183
<i>where we can take
a sample to a lab,</i>

1106
00:54:31,184 --> 00:54:33,686
<i>items that were unable
to be tested before,</i>

1107
00:54:33,687 --> 00:54:35,437
<i>with a realistic expectation</i>

1108
00:54:35,438 --> 00:54:37,649
<i>of developing a profile
sooner than later.</i>

1109
00:54:39,025 --> 00:54:41,694
We are going to solve
this case someday.

1110
00:54:41,695 --> 00:54:43,446
I want the public to know that.

1111
00:54:44,114 --> 00:54:47,534
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1112
00:55:00,046 --> 00:55:01,005
<i>You'll have your own pain</i>

1113
00:55:01,006 --> 00:55:02,381
<i>and your own way
and your own time.</i>

1114
00:55:02,382 --> 00:55:05,051
<i>You don't need
to visit this one.</i> (SNIFFLES)

1115
00:55:06,136 --> 00:55:08,387
CLAIRE: <i>At a certain point,
the project ends</i>

1116
00:55:08,388 --> 00:55:11,515
<i>and, hopefully, the film
is finished and you let go.</i>

1117
00:55:11,516 --> 00:55:13,183
This was
a different kind of thing

1118
00:55:13,184 --> 00:55:14,769
because I didn't finish.

1119
00:55:16,021 --> 00:55:17,646
<i>It was really complicated.</i>

1120
00:55:17,647 --> 00:55:21,191
<i>I couldn't see all the angles,
all of the storylines,</i>

1121
00:55:21,192 --> 00:55:22,860
<i>all of the people.</i>

1122
00:55:22,861 --> 00:55:25,822
<i>So, the basic feeling
was a feeling of failure.</i>

1123
00:55:27,574 --> 00:55:30,617
And the larger feeling was just
that I had let people down.

1124
00:55:30,618 --> 00:55:32,745
I felt like
I had let people down,

1125
00:55:32,746 --> 00:55:34,581
you know,
who gave me a lot of trust.

1126
00:55:36,916 --> 00:55:40,461
<i>But I knew
that it was worth preserving.</i>

1127
00:55:40,462 --> 00:55:45,257
<i>And I'm glad that this footage
is finding a home</i>

1128
00:55:45,258 --> 00:55:47,468
that feels like
a way of honoring

1129
00:55:47,469 --> 00:55:49,429
the folks that let me film them.

1130
00:55:50,305 --> 00:55:51,472
Yeah.

1131
00:55:51,473 --> 00:55:55,518
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1132
00:55:57,395 --> 00:55:58,937
JOHN JONES:
<i>As the years go on,</i>

1133
00:55:58,938 --> 00:56:01,274
<i>it's still sitting out there...</i>

1134
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:03,777
<i>unsolved.</i>

1135
00:56:07,364 --> 00:56:11,408
I used to hide
every December 6th.

1136
00:56:11,409 --> 00:56:15,287
Couldn't find me.
I'd take off work,

1137
00:56:15,288 --> 00:56:19,166
even when I was still at PD,
and I did when I was at Metro.

1138
00:56:19,167 --> 00:56:21,627
December 6th,
you couldn't find me.

1139
00:56:21,628 --> 00:56:26,383
And I was off in a corner
by myself.

1140
00:56:27,467 --> 00:56:28,801
It's my version, I guess,

1141
00:56:28,802 --> 00:56:31,303
of a day
that will live in infamy.

1142
00:56:31,304 --> 00:56:35,557
Yeah, I mean, and it'll probably
be that way as long

1143
00:56:35,558 --> 00:56:37,769
as it's still unsolved.

1144
00:56:46,569 --> 00:56:48,153
SONORA: <i>Sometimes,
I think I have a memory,</i>

1145
00:56:48,154 --> 00:56:49,571
<i>but it's a photograph,</i>

1146
00:56:49,572 --> 00:56:51,740
<i>and it's a photograph
that I've seen many times,</i>

1147
00:56:51,741 --> 00:56:54,577
<i>and I sort of create
a story around it.</i>

1148
00:56:56,955 --> 00:57:00,124
<i>I don't think it matters whether
the memory's accurate or not,</i>

1149
00:57:00,125 --> 00:57:01,959
<i>because it's your memory.</i>

1150
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,128
(CHILDREN LAUGHING)

1151
00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:06,755
SONORA: So, you’re asking,

1152
00:57:06,756 --> 00:57:09,341
how do we deal
with traumatic memories

1153
00:57:09,342 --> 00:57:11,803
and change them
or heal them, right?

1154
00:57:12,804 --> 00:57:13,847
Um...

1155
00:57:16,558 --> 00:57:18,642
So, yeah, there is,
like, this big school of thought

1156
00:57:18,643 --> 00:57:20,436
that says like,
"Oh, we just tell the story

1157
00:57:20,437 --> 00:57:21,728
over and over and over again."

1158
00:57:21,729 --> 00:57:23,981
(INAUDIBLE)

1159
00:57:23,982 --> 00:57:25,774
SONORA: <i>But I think
some other things need to happen</i>

1160
00:57:25,775 --> 00:57:29,028
<i>in telling that story
over and over and over again.</i>

1161
00:57:31,531 --> 00:57:35,118
<i>I think we need to have
a lot of support in doing that.</i>

1162
00:57:36,619 --> 00:57:40,873
And to have the compassion
of other human beings around us

1163
00:57:40,874 --> 00:57:42,876
as they're witnessing our story.

1164
00:57:45,044 --> 00:57:46,712
<i>There's a real benefit</i>

1165
00:57:46,713 --> 00:57:50,090
<i>for both teller
and audience member</i>

1166
00:57:50,091 --> 00:57:53,385
<i>to telling that story
and to hearing that story.</i>

1167
00:57:53,386 --> 00:57:55,763
♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1168
00:57:57,056 --> 00:57:58,724
I think that can change

1169
00:57:58,725 --> 00:58:01,519
how the memory lives
inside of you.

1170
00:58:16,242 --> 00:58:17,869
SONORA: Look, there's Eliza!

1171
00:58:19,078 --> 00:58:20,704
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

1172
00:58:20,705 --> 00:58:23,374
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

1173
00:58:24,375 --> 00:58:27,337
(DISTORTED BUZZING)

1174
00:58:28,338 --> 00:58:31,883
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC BUILDUP) ♪

1175
00:59:20,932 --> 00:59:24,102
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪