1
00:00:16,824 --> 00:00:20,347
[Geragos] The disconnect between
the public perception...

2
00:00:21,949 --> 00:00:25,292
and the publicly-filed
indictment

3
00:00:25,392 --> 00:00:31,338
may be one of the largest
chasms I've ever seen

4
00:00:31,438 --> 00:00:33,600
in the last 40 years.

5
00:00:36,803 --> 00:00:40,307
The defence has countless
written communications

6
00:00:40,407 --> 00:00:44,191
that will negate any lack
of consent in this case,

7
00:00:44,291 --> 00:00:46,653
that will negate
any coercion in this case.

8
00:00:48,094 --> 00:00:52,319
If all the prosecution can offer
by way of proof and argument

9
00:00:52,419 --> 00:00:54,281
when they put this
thing up for trial,

10
00:00:54,381 --> 00:00:57,324
is that Sean Combs was
having threesomes

11
00:00:57,424 --> 00:01:00,006
and participating,
with the enjoyment

12
00:01:00,106 --> 00:01:04,090
of legally-hired sexual escorts,
they're gonna lose, period.

13
00:01:04,190 --> 00:01:06,333
If you have a divided jury,

14
00:01:06,433 --> 00:01:08,935
a diverse jury that
doesn't get along well,

15
00:01:09,035 --> 00:01:11,978
you could very well hang this,
independent of the evidence.

16
00:01:12,078 --> 00:01:14,420
We, the jury,
in the above entitled action,

17
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,663
find the defendant,
Sean "Diddy" Combs...

18
00:01:16,763 --> 00:01:20,206
[♪♪]

19
00:01:29,735 --> 00:01:32,038
Pretty much everybody
watching this unfold

20
00:01:32,138 --> 00:01:35,001
believes Diddy
is guilty as hell.

21
00:01:35,101 --> 00:01:36,762
But it's not as simple as that.

22
00:01:36,862 --> 00:01:39,926
This is going to come down
to 12 people in a jury box.

23
00:01:40,026 --> 00:01:43,649
And they're not gonna be
looking at all the chatter
outside the courtroom.

24
00:01:43,749 --> 00:01:46,812
Fact is,
there will be a defence,

25
00:01:46,912 --> 00:01:49,895
by a team
of high-powered lawyers.

26
00:01:49,995 --> 00:01:51,697
At the end of this documentary,

27
00:01:51,797 --> 00:01:54,300
you're going to see our
mock jury deliberate,

28
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,143
and decide if Diddy should
spend the rest of his life

29
00:01:57,243 --> 00:01:59,825
behind bars, or walk free.

30
00:01:59,925 --> 00:02:03,589
Maybe someone was coming from
out of town to party with Diddy.

31
00:02:03,689 --> 00:02:06,952
They ended up having sex,
but does that mean that
they were a sex worker?

32
00:02:07,052 --> 00:02:09,114
Does that prove that
it's sex trafficking?

33
00:02:09,214 --> 00:02:11,597
No, but it's a pretty damn
strong indication.

34
00:02:11,697 --> 00:02:13,278
He ain't the only dude
committing crimes.

35
00:02:13,378 --> 00:02:14,800
Seriously,
a hundred dudes, white dudes

36
00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:16,281
-in L.A. doing this right now.
-Yeah.

37
00:02:16,381 --> 00:02:19,404
A hundred, easy.
No, they are not Diddy.

38
00:02:19,504 --> 00:02:22,808
But can you be coerced
when you're in a consensual
relationship?

39
00:02:22,908 --> 00:02:24,610
Cassie was in
a relationship for 10 years.

40
00:02:24,710 --> 00:02:26,211
I don't know
how you were coerced.

41
00:02:26,311 --> 00:02:28,774
I--I don't--even with--
I can't see it.

42
00:02:28,874 --> 00:02:30,696
[tense music]

43
00:02:30,796 --> 00:02:33,538
[jury foreperson] We, the jury,
in the above entitled action,

44
00:02:33,638 --> 00:02:35,841
find the defendant,
Sean "Diddy" Combs...

45
00:02:40,485 --> 00:02:43,888
[tense music]

46
00:02:44,929 --> 00:02:48,313
Today I'm announcing
the unsealing of
a three-count indictment

47
00:02:48,413 --> 00:02:50,355
charging Sean Combs
with racketeering,

48
00:02:50,455 --> 00:02:51,876
conspiracy,

49
00:02:51,976 --> 00:02:53,718
sex trafficking,

50
00:02:53,818 --> 00:02:56,341
interstate transportation
for prostitution.

51
00:02:57,382 --> 00:03:00,525
[♪♪]

52
00:03:00,625 --> 00:03:03,848
The first paragraph
of the indictment really
sums up the charges.

53
00:03:03,948 --> 00:03:06,050
It said, "For decades,
Sean Combs, the defendant,

54
00:03:06,150 --> 00:03:09,374
abused, threatened,
and coerced women,
and others around him

55
00:03:09,474 --> 00:03:11,255
to fulfil his sexual desires,

56
00:03:11,355 --> 00:03:13,778
protect his reputation,
and conceal his conduct."

57
00:03:13,878 --> 00:03:17,542
[♪♪]

58
00:03:17,642 --> 00:03:20,224
On one occasion
in March of 2016,

59
00:03:20,324 --> 00:03:22,547
that conduct was
captured on video,

60
00:03:22,647 --> 00:03:24,709
and later reported in the media.

61
00:03:24,809 --> 00:03:28,953
Listen to everybody,
but you believe all proof.
This video is proof.

62
00:03:29,053 --> 00:03:32,036
Yeah, well, hands-down proof.
And it is just so disgusting.

63
00:03:32,136 --> 00:03:36,160
They're gonna show that
video over, and over, and over.

64
00:03:36,260 --> 00:03:38,382
[photographers shouting]

65
00:03:39,263 --> 00:03:41,645
[man]
Cassie, Combs' ex-girlfriend,

66
00:03:41,745 --> 00:03:46,570
she sued him back in November
of 2023 for sexual assault,

67
00:03:46,670 --> 00:03:48,172
battery, sex trafficking.

68
00:03:48,272 --> 00:03:49,653
This was among other claims.

69
00:03:49,753 --> 00:03:52,756
And that case ultimately
started the ball rolling

70
00:03:53,157 --> 00:03:55,379
with more lawsuits
filed against Combs,

71
00:03:55,479 --> 00:03:59,023
and ultimately culminated
with these criminal charges.

72
00:03:59,123 --> 00:04:02,146
[reporter] <i>You had U.S. Attorney</i>
<i>Damian Williams saying</i>

73
00:04:02,246 --> 00:04:04,108
<i>that these victims</i>
<i>felt they could not leave,</i>

74
00:04:04,208 --> 00:04:07,751
<i>because their own security</i>
<i>was at risk if they did.</i>

75
00:04:07,851 --> 00:04:10,994
<i>And there is actual video</i>
<i>evidence of that,</i>

76
00:04:11,094 --> 00:04:14,237
<i>when one of the victims was</i>
<i>trying to leave a hotel room,</i>

77
00:04:14,337 --> 00:04:17,521
<i>trying to leave one of those</i>
<i>freak-offs, and what happened?</i>

78
00:04:17,621 --> 00:04:20,243
<i>Sean Combs violently beat her.</i>

79
00:04:20,343 --> 00:04:22,005
<i>That is on tape.</i>

80
00:04:22,105 --> 00:04:23,607
[photographer]
Everyone, right here!

81
00:04:23,707 --> 00:04:26,970
After Cassie filed her lawsuit,
you said,

82
00:04:27,070 --> 00:04:29,653
"Been trying
to tell y'all for years."

83
00:04:29,753 --> 00:04:31,374
What were
you trying to tell people?

84
00:04:31,474 --> 00:04:33,577
That Diddy was not a safe human,

85
00:04:33,677 --> 00:04:35,699
and that you should be careful,

86
00:04:35,799 --> 00:04:39,983
if you're planning on entering
any type of relationship

87
00:04:40,083 --> 00:04:42,305
with him, from business,
to personal.

88
00:04:42,405 --> 00:04:44,107
He's accused of creating
a criminal organization

89
00:04:44,207 --> 00:04:46,029
that carried out and covered up
his alleged crimes,

90
00:04:46,129 --> 00:04:48,071
including sex trafficking,
forced labor,

91
00:04:48,171 --> 00:04:50,513
interstate transportation
for purposes of prostitution,

92
00:04:50,613 --> 00:04:52,835
coercion and enticement
to engage in prostitution,

93
00:04:52,935 --> 00:04:54,477
narcotics offences, kidnapping,

94
00:04:54,577 --> 00:04:56,439
arson, bribery,
and obstruction of justice.

95
00:04:56,539 --> 00:05:00,523
That is many crimes, actually.
That is a lot of criming.

96
00:05:00,623 --> 00:05:03,406
-[reporter] Congratulations
on the revoke, man.
-Thank you very much.

97
00:05:03,506 --> 00:05:07,370
Combs allegedly planned and
controlled the sex performances,

98
00:05:07,470 --> 00:05:10,533
which he called freak-offs.

99
00:05:10,633 --> 00:05:12,975
And he often electronically
recorded them.

100
00:05:13,075 --> 00:05:15,538
The freak-offs sometimes
lasted days at a time,

101
00:05:15,638 --> 00:05:18,501
involved multiple
commercial sex workers,

102
00:05:18,601 --> 00:05:21,484
and often involved
a variety of narcotics.

103
00:05:22,565 --> 00:05:26,829
[Levin] One of the things
they are alleging, and this
is the prostitution charge,

104
00:05:26,929 --> 00:05:33,395
which is that Diddy would bring
male porn stars across
state lines

105
00:05:33,495 --> 00:05:37,479
to participate
in these freak-offs,
and essentially, victimise.

106
00:05:37,579 --> 00:05:39,481
I mean, that's the way
they're putting it,

107
00:05:39,581 --> 00:05:43,485
some of the women who were
pressured to be part of it.

108
00:05:43,585 --> 00:05:47,509
[♪♪]

109
00:05:50,352 --> 00:05:54,656
[D. Williams] In March of this
year, special agents from HSI
executed search warrants

110
00:05:54,756 --> 00:05:57,319
at Combs' residences
in Miami and Los Angeles.

111
00:05:59,481 --> 00:06:01,543
They seized firearms
and ammunition,

112
00:06:01,643 --> 00:06:06,808
including three defaced AR-15s,
and a large-capacity
drum magazine.

113
00:06:07,529 --> 00:06:09,391
They also seized evidence
of the freak-offs.

114
00:06:09,491 --> 00:06:12,314
Electronic devices
that contained images,

115
00:06:12,414 --> 00:06:15,577
and videos of the freak-offs,
with multiple victims.

116
00:06:17,579 --> 00:06:21,403
They seized cases and cases of
the kinds of personal lubricant

117
00:06:21,503 --> 00:06:24,406
and baby oil that Combs' staff
allegedly used

118
00:06:24,506 --> 00:06:26,768
to stock hotel rooms
for the freak-offs,

119
00:06:26,868 --> 00:06:29,491
more than 1,000 bottles
altogether.

120
00:06:29,591 --> 00:06:32,974
[♪♪]

121
00:06:33,074 --> 00:06:35,456
The victims did not believe
they could refuse Combs

122
00:06:35,556 --> 00:06:38,940
without risking their security
or facing more abuse.

123
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,062
[man]
I don't give a fuck who you are!

124
00:06:41,162 --> 00:06:42,744
[Diddy] I don't give a fuck
who you are either,
motherfucker!

125
00:06:42,844 --> 00:06:45,827
[many people shouting at once]

126
00:06:45,927 --> 00:06:48,830
Back up, back up, back up.

127
00:06:48,930 --> 00:06:51,192
Who do you think you are?
Just keep walking. Keep walking.

128
00:06:51,292 --> 00:06:55,316
I knew all of that was going on.
I've known the whole time.

129
00:06:55,416 --> 00:06:59,940
But what the prosecutors
have done is expanded
the case with more details.

130
00:07:00,261 --> 00:07:02,283
They've added
two new female victims,

131
00:07:02,383 --> 00:07:05,806
and they've also said that
the alleged crimes took place

132
00:07:05,906 --> 00:07:08,449
over a longer time frame
than they'd initially said.

133
00:07:08,549 --> 00:07:10,931
By adding these
two additional women,

134
00:07:11,031 --> 00:07:13,694
the feds are sort of bolstering
their case, and they're saying

135
00:07:13,794 --> 00:07:16,977
these women were also lured
and trafficked for prostitution.

136
00:07:17,077 --> 00:07:20,701
And he says they were
paid in career opportunities,
they were paid in money,

137
00:07:20,801 --> 00:07:23,744
and they were paid in maybe
their housing expenses,
and rent being paid.

138
00:07:23,844 --> 00:07:26,106
[reporter] <i>One of the lawyers</i>
<i>representing Sean "Diddy" Combs</i>

139
00:07:26,206 --> 00:07:28,469
<i>in his sex trafficking case</i>
<i>is quitting.</i>

140
00:07:28,569 --> 00:07:32,112
<i>Anthony Ricco filed</i>
<i>notice in Manhattan</i>
<i>federal court Thursday,</i>

141
00:07:32,212 --> 00:07:35,395
<i>writing, quote, "Under no</i>
<i>circumstances can I continue</i>

142
00:07:35,495 --> 00:07:37,277
<i>to effectively serve</i>
<i>as counsel."</i>

143
00:07:37,377 --> 00:07:39,640
<i>It's about time</i>
<i>that he goes to prison.</i>

144
00:07:39,740 --> 00:07:44,164
<i>And--and, you know,</i>
<i>and that's all</i>
<i>I'm gonna say about that.</i>

145
00:07:44,264 --> 00:07:46,266
<i>Diddy done, Diddy done.</i>

146
00:07:47,147 --> 00:07:49,690
[Smith] When you hear
racketeering conspiracy,

147
00:07:49,790 --> 00:07:52,612
when you hear
sex trafficking by force,

148
00:07:52,712 --> 00:07:56,216
when you hear that drugs
were used to keep them
obedient and compliant,

149
00:07:56,316 --> 00:07:58,138
when you hear
about the prostitution,

150
00:07:58,238 --> 00:08:00,921
male sex workers and
all of this other stuff...

151
00:08:03,483 --> 00:08:05,485
he's in a world of trouble.

152
00:08:06,926 --> 00:08:11,171
[dramatic music]

153
00:08:17,297 --> 00:08:20,680
[reporter] Diddy, we're just
trying to figure out what's
going on, that's all.

154
00:08:20,780 --> 00:08:23,923
People just want to know
if you feel sorry,

155
00:08:24,023 --> 00:08:26,806
if things are gonna, you know,
what's going on with that.

156
00:08:26,906 --> 00:08:29,088
-All right.
-Love.

157
00:08:29,188 --> 00:08:31,190
-You have a good day.
-[reporter] All right.

158
00:08:34,554 --> 00:08:38,297
[Geragos] Let me tell you what
I think my read on Diddy is.

159
00:08:38,397 --> 00:08:41,701
I think that when it
comes to public perception,

160
00:08:41,801 --> 00:08:45,585
the public perception
is that he's guilty,

161
00:08:45,685 --> 00:08:48,027
and that he's guilty
of everything and anything

162
00:08:48,127 --> 00:08:51,470
that you can think of, and let
your imagination go wild.

163
00:08:51,570 --> 00:08:56,075
The lawyer who dropped
out of his case and will no
longer be representing Diddy,

164
00:08:56,175 --> 00:09:01,000
people are talking that
necromancy is the reason why.

165
00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:03,682
Like, baby oil's
not really the baby oil,

166
00:09:03,782 --> 00:09:07,566
it's actually GHB,
which is, like, a drug.

167
00:09:07,666 --> 00:09:09,848
Imagine how many
people were paid off,

168
00:09:09,948 --> 00:09:12,571
bribed, threatened,

169
00:09:12,671 --> 00:09:15,754
for this to be hidden
for so long.

170
00:09:16,475 --> 00:09:19,978
[Geragos] When it comes
to the actual case itself,

171
00:09:20,078 --> 00:09:23,342
the disconnect between
the public perception

172
00:09:23,442 --> 00:09:27,306
and the publicly-filed
indictment,

173
00:09:27,406 --> 00:09:31,590
may be one of the largest chasms

174
00:09:31,690 --> 00:09:35,514
I've ever seen
in the last 40 years.

175
00:09:35,614 --> 00:09:39,478
I'm Mark Geragos, and I
represented Michael Jackson,

176
00:09:39,578 --> 00:09:42,641
and then ended up not
only representing him,

177
00:09:42,741 --> 00:09:46,224
but testifying for him,
not once, but twice.

178
00:09:46,665 --> 00:09:50,168
Over 120 victims,
both male and female,

179
00:09:50,268 --> 00:09:52,130
have come out
with their own accusations,

180
00:09:52,230 --> 00:09:54,252
25 of which were only minors,

181
00:09:54,352 --> 00:09:56,695
with the youngest
being nine years old.

182
00:09:56,795 --> 00:09:59,217
They have pictures, video, text,

183
00:09:59,317 --> 00:10:03,862
and would expose
many powerful people,
and their many dirty secrets.

184
00:10:03,962 --> 00:10:08,346
Essentially,
this man is the Epstein
of the music industry.

185
00:10:08,446 --> 00:10:11,549
Everybody assumes that
there's all kinds

186
00:10:11,649 --> 00:10:13,992
of Epstein-like collateral,

187
00:10:14,092 --> 00:10:16,834
that there's hundreds,
if not thousands,

188
00:10:16,934 --> 00:10:19,677
of videotapes
of A-list celebrities,

189
00:10:19,777 --> 00:10:22,160
that there's trafficking
with minors,

190
00:10:22,260 --> 00:10:27,405
that there's all kinds of
a fanciful sex slave operation.

191
00:10:27,505 --> 00:10:32,650
There is nothing that
is too crazy to find currency

192
00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:35,493
on the Internet,
when it comes to this case.

193
00:10:35,593 --> 00:10:39,216
For decades, P. Diddy has been
a hardcore sexual predator,

194
00:10:39,316 --> 00:10:42,099
running a massive
sex trafficking operation

195
00:10:42,199 --> 00:10:44,382
that has involved
many, many minors.

196
00:10:44,482 --> 00:10:46,384
I'd just like to point out
that not a single person

197
00:10:46,484 --> 00:10:48,686
has come forward to say
that Diddy's innocent,

198
00:10:49,526 --> 00:10:52,550
which lets me further know
that he did all of that.

199
00:10:52,650 --> 00:10:55,673
P. Diddy is going to end up
with the death penalty charge.

200
00:10:55,773 --> 00:10:59,757
The public and the media
have gotten nearly
every fact wrong

201
00:10:59,857 --> 00:11:02,079
about what the prosecution's
case is here.

202
00:11:02,179 --> 00:11:04,241
So, I just want
to take one issue with that.

203
00:11:04,341 --> 00:11:08,725
You know, there's no minors,
there's no celebrity sex tapes.

204
00:11:08,825 --> 00:11:10,768
You know, the civil
lawsuits here

205
00:11:10,868 --> 00:11:15,332
are not driving the allegations
that we're defending against,

206
00:11:15,432 --> 00:11:18,735
but it is driving the vitriol
against him in the media.

207
00:11:18,835 --> 00:11:21,818
[Levin] We should say that one
of the lead lawyers

208
00:11:21,918 --> 00:11:24,581
in this case,
in Diddy's defence,

209
00:11:24,681 --> 00:11:28,425
is a woman named Teny Geragos,
who is your daughter.

210
00:11:28,525 --> 00:11:31,508
So, fair to say,
this might be a little coloured

211
00:11:31,608 --> 00:11:33,830
by some family lineage here.

212
00:11:33,930 --> 00:11:37,954
Well, I will also tell you that
one of the lead prosecutors

213
00:11:38,054 --> 00:11:41,598
is the daughter of a gentleman
named James Comey.

214
00:11:41,698 --> 00:11:44,160
So, you know,
it's a battle of the...

215
00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:47,624
My daughter would hit me,
but it's a battle
of the nepo babies.

216
00:11:50,106 --> 00:11:53,009
This office is determined
to investigate and prosecute

217
00:11:53,109 --> 00:11:55,411
anyone who engages
in sex trafficking,

218
00:11:55,511 --> 00:11:59,335
no matter how powerful
or wealthy or famous you may be.

219
00:11:59,435 --> 00:12:01,137
The battleground here
will be consent.

220
00:12:01,237 --> 00:12:04,180
In this whole case, the
battleground will be consent.

221
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,983
And quite frankly, you know,

222
00:12:07,083 --> 00:12:10,766
it sounds like at the time,
people were consenting.

223
00:12:11,607 --> 00:12:13,629
My name is Joe Tacopina.

224
00:12:13,729 --> 00:12:16,993
I'm fresh off a win
at the A$AP Rocky trial
in Los Angeles.

225
00:12:17,093 --> 00:12:20,076
[jury foreperson] We find
the defendant not guilty.

226
00:12:20,176 --> 00:12:23,339
[people cheering]

227
00:12:30,386 --> 00:12:33,209
<i>♪♪ Yeah, yeah ♪♪</i>

228
00:12:33,309 --> 00:12:36,292
[Tacopina] It's not
sex trafficking if everyone
wants to be there, okay?

229
00:12:36,392 --> 00:12:38,013
When you think
of sex trafficking,

230
00:12:38,113 --> 00:12:40,496
you have connotations
of people being sold for sex.

231
00:12:40,596 --> 00:12:43,219
I mean, that's what you
think of as sex trafficking,
normally minors.

232
00:12:43,319 --> 00:12:44,620
You're not going
to get that here.

233
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,422
What I've been told is that

234
00:12:46,522 --> 00:12:49,345
the defence has countless
written communications

235
00:12:49,445 --> 00:12:54,950
that will negate any
lack of consent in this case,

236
00:12:55,050 --> 00:12:57,152
that will negate
any coercion in this case.

237
00:12:57,252 --> 00:12:59,955
It's going to be hard
for them to say,
"Yeah, I wrote those things,

238
00:13:00,055 --> 00:13:02,798
but I was just scared,
and I wrote that
I was happy to come,

239
00:13:02,898 --> 00:13:04,439
when I really
wasn't happy to come."

240
00:13:04,539 --> 00:13:08,203
So I think that this
is not quite as, you know,

241
00:13:08,303 --> 00:13:11,446
signed, sealed
and delivered as people think
it is for the prosecution.

242
00:13:11,546 --> 00:13:14,089
Don't listen to him no more,
all right?

243
00:13:14,189 --> 00:13:17,893
Just get on here in those
grandpa kicks. You listen to me.

244
00:13:17,993 --> 00:13:20,015
-[laughter]
-[man] He's a friend.

245
00:13:20,115 --> 00:13:23,578
The second we start making
free choice illegal,

246
00:13:23,678 --> 00:13:26,181
we got a big problem, and then,

247
00:13:26,281 --> 00:13:28,143
anybody could be prosecuted
for anything.

248
00:13:28,243 --> 00:13:31,786
My name is Jose Baez, and I have
won several high-profile cases

249
00:13:31,886 --> 00:13:34,829
that are nationally known,
like Casey Anthony,

250
00:13:34,929 --> 00:13:38,153
Aaron Hernandez,
Dr. William Husel.

251
00:13:38,253 --> 00:13:39,874
There's got to be a line,

252
00:13:39,974 --> 00:13:43,077
and I think people
are defined by their choices,

253
00:13:43,177 --> 00:13:45,760
and a lot of times,
we'd love to go back

254
00:13:45,860 --> 00:13:48,843
and change those choices,
but we can't, we can't.

255
00:13:48,943 --> 00:13:52,967
And that doesn't mean that
you have to blame someone else
for your bad choices.

256
00:13:53,067 --> 00:13:57,171
I think consenting adults
starts with the word consenting.

257
00:13:57,271 --> 00:13:59,293
Does it end with
the word consenting?

258
00:13:59,393 --> 00:14:01,215
I think it does.
I think it does.

259
00:14:01,315 --> 00:14:03,057
If someone
consents to something,

260
00:14:03,157 --> 00:14:06,100
and then later on
they choose to opt out of it,

261
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,942
that is still consent.

262
00:14:08,042 --> 00:14:10,284
They are still making
that choice to opt out of it.

263
00:14:19,133 --> 00:14:22,837
Yeah, they love me!
Anybody, man! Love! Love!

264
00:14:22,937 --> 00:14:26,240
You know what I'm saying?
I'm feeding my people, baby!

265
00:14:26,340 --> 00:14:32,046
If the defence can land
the plane of consent
in a convincing way,

266
00:14:32,146 --> 00:14:34,128
I think that's a problem
for the prosecutors.

267
00:14:34,228 --> 00:14:36,930
Eboni K. Williams,
the host and producer

268
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:39,653
of <i>Equal Justice with</i>
<i>Judge Eboni K. Williams,</i>

269
00:14:39,753 --> 00:14:42,936
as well as <i>Holding Court</i>
<i>with Eboni K. Williams,</i>

270
00:14:43,036 --> 00:14:44,658
which is an award-winning
podcast.

271
00:14:44,758 --> 00:14:46,700
[Levin]
When you talk about consent,

272
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,263
what's interesting is...

273
00:14:49,363 --> 00:14:53,387
that the three alleged victims
were girlfriends.

274
00:14:53,487 --> 00:14:58,191
And if the defence can show

275
00:14:58,291 --> 00:15:01,234
that they were
willing participants,

276
00:15:01,334 --> 00:15:05,559
and that there was consent
going into these freak-offs,

277
00:15:05,659 --> 00:15:07,601
doesn't that hurt
the prosecution's case?

278
00:15:07,701 --> 00:15:09,242
Oh, there's
no case at that point.

279
00:15:09,342 --> 00:15:13,567
If this defence team can
convincingly lay out a case

280
00:15:13,667 --> 00:15:17,050
that these were girlfriends and
that there was consent going on,

281
00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:20,373
and perhaps different
for us, for, you know,

282
00:15:20,473 --> 00:15:22,375
your average
Joe and Mary on the street,

283
00:15:22,475 --> 00:15:26,059
but certainly not wholly
atypical for a celebrity

284
00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:28,101
of Sean Combs' status
and the life

285
00:15:28,201 --> 00:15:30,223
in which he is living,
which is, you know,

286
00:15:30,323 --> 00:15:31,624
extreme by any measure.

287
00:15:31,724 --> 00:15:33,746
You know what I'm saying?
The fuck?

288
00:15:33,846 --> 00:15:35,628
Shit started
out in the Bronx, man.

289
00:15:35,728 --> 00:15:37,030
Look where this shit is at now.

290
00:15:37,130 --> 00:15:39,412
I'm Sean "Diddy" Combs.

291
00:15:39,732 --> 00:15:42,295
Proud owner of Cîîroc vodka.

292
00:15:43,816 --> 00:15:46,639
[E. Williams] That is why
I'm saying it really
is going to turn

293
00:15:46,739 --> 00:15:50,723
on the defence's ability
to land the plane of consent,

294
00:15:50,823 --> 00:15:53,326
to land an argument that says
that these were willing,

295
00:15:53,426 --> 00:15:57,209
competent, conscious adults
who were engaging

296
00:15:57,309 --> 00:16:01,093
on their own behalf
in activities that maybe

297
00:16:01,193 --> 00:16:03,656
you or I think are weird,
or you or I think

298
00:16:03,756 --> 00:16:05,337
might be different,
but are legal.

299
00:16:05,437 --> 00:16:08,020
This is really going
to land on that particular

300
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,863
juror's kind of personal
lens as to whether

301
00:16:10,963 --> 00:16:12,785
or not that's
a compelling argument,

302
00:16:12,885 --> 00:16:16,989
that this enticement
reaches to a point of coercion.

303
00:16:17,089 --> 00:16:18,991
I think some jurors
are going to buy it,

304
00:16:19,091 --> 00:16:21,233
and some are going
to really call b.s. on it.

305
00:16:21,333 --> 00:16:23,816
[paparazzi shouting]

306
00:16:25,778 --> 00:16:26,999
Everybody eats!

307
00:16:27,099 --> 00:16:29,281
When I'm in town,
everybody eats!

308
00:16:29,381 --> 00:16:31,603
[crowd cheering]

309
00:16:31,703 --> 00:16:35,807
[Levin] The feds say Diddy
offered these women money,

310
00:16:35,907 --> 00:16:37,649
career opportunities,

311
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:41,053
housing expenses, to go
along with the freak-offs.

312
00:16:41,153 --> 00:16:42,294
So how does that play?

313
00:16:42,394 --> 00:16:44,496
Well, here's how it plays.

314
00:16:44,596 --> 00:16:48,660
If they willingly accepted
housing, career opportunities,

315
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,663
and, you know,
whatever else, money,

316
00:16:51,763 --> 00:16:53,505
to participate
in these freak-offs,

317
00:16:53,605 --> 00:16:55,987
and they did it consensually
because they thought

318
00:16:56,087 --> 00:16:59,511
they were gonna get
something for it,
it doesn't make it a crime.

319
00:16:59,611 --> 00:17:02,434
They consented, because
it was in their own interest,

320
00:17:02,534 --> 00:17:04,035
because they were
getting something for it.

321
00:17:04,135 --> 00:17:06,137
[paparazzi] Diddy!

322
00:17:06,538 --> 00:17:09,120
Cassie, over this way!
Cassie, look right!

323
00:17:09,220 --> 00:17:10,562
Over your shoulder!

324
00:17:10,662 --> 00:17:12,163
-Thank you, baby!
-[paparazzi 2] Oh, yes.

325
00:17:12,263 --> 00:17:14,966
Unless he put a gun
to their head and said,

326
00:17:15,066 --> 00:17:18,049
"Unless you take this house
and participate

327
00:17:18,149 --> 00:17:20,131
in my freak-off,

328
00:17:20,231 --> 00:17:23,014
I'm gonna blow your brains out."
That's different.

329
00:17:23,114 --> 00:17:27,338
But if it was like, "If you
participate in my freak-offs,
you come to my parties,

330
00:17:27,438 --> 00:17:29,861
and have some fun
with me and my boys,
I'm gonna take care of you,

331
00:17:29,961 --> 00:17:31,903
I'll get you a house."
And they were like, "Okay."

332
00:17:32,003 --> 00:17:34,465
Why is that something a
prosecutor could convict someone

333
00:17:34,565 --> 00:17:36,387
and put them in jail
for the rest of their life for?

334
00:17:36,487 --> 00:17:38,990
I don't think it is,
and if that's their case,

335
00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:41,592
I think a lot of people are
gonna have trouble with that.

336
00:17:41,692 --> 00:17:45,396
[rapping indistinctly]

337
00:17:45,496 --> 00:17:47,498
Yeah.

338
00:17:48,379 --> 00:17:50,381
What is coercion?

339
00:17:59,229 --> 00:18:01,572
If you're
flying somebody to Vegas

340
00:18:01,672 --> 00:18:04,815
for a weekend,
is that sex trafficking?

341
00:18:04,915 --> 00:18:08,579
I laugh every time
I hear the term sex trafficking.

342
00:18:08,679 --> 00:18:13,424
I've been in the Burbank airport
on a Friday, back in the day,

343
00:18:13,524 --> 00:18:15,385
when it was
nothing but women

344
00:18:15,485 --> 00:18:17,828
who were flying
to Vegas for the weekend.

345
00:18:17,928 --> 00:18:19,710
Is that sex trafficking,

346
00:18:19,810 --> 00:18:23,173
if you give her the money to go
buy a ticket to go to Vegas?

347
00:18:25,215 --> 00:18:30,040
The idea that somehow,
if you wine and dine somebody,

348
00:18:30,140 --> 00:18:33,363
that's something that you hear
about every single industry.

349
00:18:33,463 --> 00:18:37,327
And by the way, this industry
that Diddy's involved in

350
00:18:37,427 --> 00:18:41,051
has coined the expression sex,
drugs, and rock and roll.

351
00:18:41,151 --> 00:18:42,853
And so, what do you expect?

352
00:18:42,953 --> 00:18:46,216
Oh, we gave you all some drinks,
now it's time to enjoy life.

353
00:18:46,316 --> 00:18:47,898
This is a celebration of life.

354
00:18:47,998 --> 00:18:49,899
This is a legendary White Party.

355
00:18:49,999 --> 00:18:52,001
It's the real White Party.

356
00:18:54,564 --> 00:18:58,108
They're talking about these
parties that everyone
was dying to go to.

357
00:18:58,208 --> 00:19:01,231
I mean, if you got invited
to a Diddy party back then,

358
00:19:01,331 --> 00:19:04,314
you were like, wow, you were it,
you made it, right?

359
00:19:04,414 --> 00:19:06,596
Let's just start to get
our groove on a little bit.

360
00:19:06,696 --> 00:19:09,158
In an hour, we'll put
the kids away, it's all good.

361
00:19:09,258 --> 00:19:11,321
All right, D.J.,
let's hit it, let's do it.

362
00:19:11,421 --> 00:19:13,162
[Tacopina] Everyone
couldn't wait to go.

363
00:19:13,262 --> 00:19:15,565
And then if they got
something for it,

364
00:19:15,665 --> 00:19:17,847
they were even more happy to go.

365
00:19:17,947 --> 00:19:21,651
Now, upon reflection,
and in this era that we live in

366
00:19:21,751 --> 00:19:24,293
now where, you know,
all of a sudden everything

367
00:19:24,393 --> 00:19:27,456
becomes a criminal act,
it's a lot easier to now

368
00:19:27,556 --> 00:19:29,979
point the finger and say,
oh, I didn't consent,

369
00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:33,222
but you have to really,
really prove that up.

370
00:19:33,322 --> 00:19:35,665
It can't be just,
you know, I'm saying it,

371
00:19:35,765 --> 00:19:37,666
and I got a lawyer,
and, you know,

372
00:19:37,766 --> 00:19:40,029
we're in the "Me Too"
Movement era,

373
00:19:40,129 --> 00:19:41,670
and I'm just going
to make a claim,

374
00:19:41,770 --> 00:19:43,793
and let's hope it sticks.
Doesn't work that way.

375
00:19:43,893 --> 00:19:48,437
The feds say that Diddy
was dangling his ability

376
00:19:48,537 --> 00:19:52,641
to make or break their careers,
give them money or cut them off

377
00:19:52,741 --> 00:19:56,605
in order to push them
into doing these freak-offs,

378
00:19:56,705 --> 00:19:59,048
and they say that's
evidence of coercion.

379
00:19:59,148 --> 00:20:00,689
-What do you think?
-Look,

380
00:20:00,789 --> 00:20:03,532
they didn't have
to accept his money, right?

381
00:20:03,632 --> 00:20:05,854
And if they said, look, I'm not
doing this freak-off thing

382
00:20:05,954 --> 00:20:08,457
with you, and that means
you're not going to pay

383
00:20:08,557 --> 00:20:11,340
for my house, I don't need your
house, don't pay for my house.

384
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,822
But he has no obligation
to pay for someone's house.

385
00:20:13,922 --> 00:20:16,545
They know what they're
bargaining for here, they
know what they're getting into.

386
00:20:16,645 --> 00:20:18,507
But saying,
I won't continue to further

387
00:20:18,607 --> 00:20:21,309
support you financially
if you don't participate

388
00:20:21,409 --> 00:20:23,311
in a freak-off, okay.

389
00:20:23,411 --> 00:20:25,674
Then don't
support me financially,

390
00:20:25,774 --> 00:20:28,116
but I'm not
participating, and goodbye.

391
00:20:28,216 --> 00:20:30,759
I'm trying to make as much
money as I can this year.

392
00:20:30,859 --> 00:20:32,601
I think that's a good idea.

393
00:20:32,701 --> 00:20:34,763
Why don't we all
get on that same page?

394
00:20:34,863 --> 00:20:38,526
Let's all make as much money
as we can this year.

395
00:20:38,626 --> 00:20:42,851
If the defence
has an opportunity to really

396
00:20:42,951 --> 00:20:45,213
start picking away
one or two jurors

397
00:20:45,313 --> 00:20:48,977
from buying
the prosecution argument,
it's gonna be on this piece,

398
00:20:49,077 --> 00:20:51,459
something that I tend
to call the golden carrot.

399
00:20:51,559 --> 00:20:54,542
You know, this argument
that I agree the prosecutors

400
00:20:54,642 --> 00:20:56,024
are going to make that say,

401
00:20:56,124 --> 00:20:58,947
Sean Combs is so
all-encompassing of a figure

402
00:20:59,047 --> 00:21:01,309
in this industry,
and really, global culture,

403
00:21:01,409 --> 00:21:04,152
at this point, that when
he promises a record deal,

404
00:21:04,252 --> 00:21:06,834
when he promises
a career advancement,

405
00:21:06,934 --> 00:21:10,718
when he promises this luxury car
or this luxury vacation,

406
00:21:10,818 --> 00:21:12,240
that this becomes convincing.

407
00:21:12,340 --> 00:21:16,324
No one's owed
a luxury five-star vacation.

408
00:21:16,424 --> 00:21:18,246
[D. Williams]
The indictment alleges

409
00:21:18,346 --> 00:21:20,888
that he maintained control over
the victims in several ways,

410
00:21:20,988 --> 00:21:22,450
including
by giving them drugs,

411
00:21:22,550 --> 00:21:25,953
such as ketamine,
ecstasy, and GHB,

412
00:21:26,514 --> 00:21:28,496
which Combs distributed
to the victims

413
00:21:28,596 --> 00:21:30,598
to keep them obedient
and compliant.

414
00:21:31,679 --> 00:21:33,100
I praise him anywhere!

415
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,723
[gospel music playing
over stereo]

416
00:21:36,403 --> 00:21:38,265
[Levin] The prosecution
is saying

417
00:21:38,365 --> 00:21:40,507
the drugs were used
to manipulate.

418
00:21:40,607 --> 00:21:45,913
The defence is saying
it was the women's choice
to take them or not.

419
00:21:46,013 --> 00:21:47,554
Yeah, I think
if that's the case,

420
00:21:47,654 --> 00:21:49,676
we need to start rounding
up all the bartenders

421
00:21:49,776 --> 00:21:51,839
who serve people alcohol,

422
00:21:51,939 --> 00:21:54,801
and ultimately get DUIs
or DUI manslaughters.

423
00:21:54,901 --> 00:21:57,844
And if you choose
to take an illegal substance,

424
00:21:57,944 --> 00:21:59,646
you have to bear
the responsibility

425
00:21:59,746 --> 00:22:02,369
of what happens next,
unless they're being

426
00:22:02,469 --> 00:22:05,772
given something that would
totally incapacitate them,

427
00:22:05,872 --> 00:22:07,874
and they're unaware of it.

428
00:22:10,076 --> 00:22:12,158
[tense music]

429
00:22:21,328 --> 00:22:23,229
I challenge
someone to find me another

430
00:22:23,329 --> 00:22:26,473
sex trafficking case
with a 10-year adult relation.

431
00:22:26,573 --> 00:22:29,315
Go ahead. Take all the time
you need to find

432
00:22:29,415 --> 00:22:31,237
another sex trafficking case

433
00:22:31,337 --> 00:22:34,000
with a 10-year adult
relationship,

434
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:36,002
and you won't find it.

435
00:22:36,102 --> 00:22:37,644
It's just not there.

436
00:22:37,744 --> 00:22:39,846
You like the construction
right here?

437
00:22:39,946 --> 00:22:41,568
Yeah, for sure.

438
00:22:41,668 --> 00:22:43,730
[Levin] Cassie is going
to be the star witness,

439
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:48,534
and the feds acknowledged
that there was a span

440
00:22:48,634 --> 00:22:53,699
between 2009 and 2018
where these freak-offs occurred,

441
00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:55,902
and this was during
their on-again,

442
00:22:56,002 --> 00:22:57,543
off-again relationship.

443
00:22:57,643 --> 00:23:01,908
Does the longevity
of that relationship help

444
00:23:02,008 --> 00:23:05,591
the defence when it comes
to issues like consent?

445
00:23:05,691 --> 00:23:09,675
I think that undermines any
suggestion that it was coercive.

446
00:23:09,775 --> 00:23:11,477
I think it was a relationship.

447
00:23:11,577 --> 00:23:15,601
Anybody who saw them,
anybody who witnessed them,

448
00:23:15,701 --> 00:23:18,964
you know, I off and on would
have a front-row seat,

449
00:23:19,064 --> 00:23:22,608
and I will tell you
that that relationship,

450
00:23:22,708 --> 00:23:28,213
which was well-chronicled,
including by your publication,

451
00:23:28,313 --> 00:23:31,296
does not appear to me
to be anything more

452
00:23:31,396 --> 00:23:33,218
than a very spirited

453
00:23:33,318 --> 00:23:36,261
and emotional
long-term relationship.

454
00:23:36,361 --> 00:23:39,324
[hip hop music playing]

455
00:23:43,488 --> 00:23:45,350
You want this shot right here.

456
00:23:45,450 --> 00:23:47,112
Hey. Hey.

457
00:23:47,212 --> 00:23:50,816
[tense music]

458
00:23:53,698 --> 00:23:55,480
[paparazzi shouting]

459
00:23:55,580 --> 00:24:00,265
[♪♪]

460
00:24:00,865 --> 00:24:05,570
[Levin] Would the defence make
the point that prosecutors

461
00:24:05,670 --> 00:24:07,612
are actually
infantilising women,

462
00:24:07,712 --> 00:24:10,855
taking their agency
away by making it

463
00:24:10,955 --> 00:24:13,618
seem like
they just can't say no

464
00:24:13,718 --> 00:24:16,021
to all the goodies
that he was offering?

465
00:24:16,121 --> 00:24:17,942
What do you think about that?

466
00:24:18,042 --> 00:24:20,225
It's a great point, Harvey.
I mean, it really does.

467
00:24:20,325 --> 00:24:21,906
It lends to that argument.

468
00:24:22,006 --> 00:24:24,189
You know, the defence
will have to be very crafty

469
00:24:24,289 --> 00:24:25,790
in how they bring
that argument up,

470
00:24:25,890 --> 00:24:28,233
because you don't want to be
offensive, either.

471
00:24:28,333 --> 00:24:32,196
But it does sort of sound
very disrespectful to women.

472
00:24:32,296 --> 00:24:35,840
They don't have the wherewithal
or the ability to say,

473
00:24:35,940 --> 00:24:38,282
no, I don't want to do this,
and thank you very much.

474
00:24:38,382 --> 00:24:41,446
If a woman doesn't want
to be degraded and placed

475
00:24:41,546 --> 00:24:44,168
in a position
that she doesn't want to be in,
again,

476
00:24:44,268 --> 00:24:48,693
doesn't want to be in,
then she should walk away
from this guy in total,

477
00:24:48,793 --> 00:24:51,215
including all his creature
comforts that he's given her.

478
00:24:51,315 --> 00:24:54,138
<i>♪♪ Been on the low lately</i>
<i>The feds hate me ♪♪</i>

479
00:24:54,238 --> 00:24:56,821
<i>♪♪ The son of Satan, they say</i>
<i>My killin's too blatant ♪♪</i>

480
00:24:56,921 --> 00:24:59,463
[E. Williams] I mean,
the prosecution is also arguing

481
00:24:59,563 --> 00:25:02,706
that there was violence at play,
that there were physical

482
00:25:02,806 --> 00:25:06,871
and aggressive violent tactics
also being used by Sean Combs.

483
00:25:06,971 --> 00:25:09,693
And see,
it's the conflation, I believe,

484
00:25:10,054 --> 00:25:13,557
but a defence ability to keep
the physical violence piece

485
00:25:13,657 --> 00:25:18,882
on one side, and perhaps
this autonomous lifestyle choice

486
00:25:18,982 --> 00:25:21,805
piece on another side,
I think that puts the defence

487
00:25:21,905 --> 00:25:23,327
in a stronger position.

488
00:25:23,427 --> 00:25:29,713
[♪♪]

489
00:25:30,954 --> 00:25:33,697
Their difficulties did not stem

490
00:25:33,797 --> 00:25:35,939
from their intimate
time together.

491
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:38,582
Their difficulties
stem from the fact

492
00:25:38,682 --> 00:25:42,506
that she was cheating on him,
and he was cheating on her.

493
00:25:42,606 --> 00:25:46,550
And what we see
in that video is terrible,

494
00:25:46,650 --> 00:25:50,433
it's unforgivable,
and we don't seek to forgive it.

495
00:25:50,533 --> 00:25:53,717
But it's not
related to the charge.

496
00:25:53,817 --> 00:25:56,159
In terms of his criminal
defence lawyer,

497
00:25:56,259 --> 00:26:00,003
that is not a piece of relevant
evidence to the charge.

498
00:26:00,103 --> 00:26:01,765
And that's what
I'm gonna say about that.

499
00:26:01,865 --> 00:26:03,526
Do I think it's gonna be
part of the evidence?

500
00:26:03,626 --> 00:26:05,288
I'm expecting it will be.

501
00:26:05,388 --> 00:26:07,570
[Levin] How does
the defence explain away

502
00:26:07,670 --> 00:26:12,455
a video that paints
a horrendous picture of Diddy?

503
00:26:12,555 --> 00:26:14,817
I mean, I imagine it would
be an argument like this.

504
00:26:14,917 --> 00:26:17,100
You know, who someone
is on their worst day

505
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,023
of their life, in their worst
moment of their entire

506
00:26:20,123 --> 00:26:23,106
lived experience, is not
who they are in totality.

507
00:26:23,206 --> 00:26:26,349
If the defence can
sell that convincingly,

508
00:26:26,449 --> 00:26:28,611
I think they stand
to fight another day.

509
00:26:29,492 --> 00:26:32,375
[paparazzi] Diddy! Diddy!
P to the I to the D!

510
00:26:33,095 --> 00:26:35,838
[Levin] So, let's talk
about the Cassie video.

511
00:26:35,938 --> 00:26:38,120
He is not being
prosecuted for that.

512
00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:39,682
It's a state crime,

513
00:26:39,782 --> 00:26:41,484
and the statute
of limitations has run.

514
00:26:41,584 --> 00:26:46,128
But this jury
is going to see that video.

515
00:26:46,228 --> 00:26:47,970
How does
the defence overcome that?

516
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:50,332
Well, you say he's not
being prosecuted for that,

517
00:26:50,432 --> 00:26:52,214
but he actually is, you know?

518
00:26:52,314 --> 00:26:55,097
[laughs] Whether it's done
at this time or at that time,

519
00:26:55,197 --> 00:26:56,619
it's still being done.

520
00:26:56,719 --> 00:26:59,982
So you can try
your best to justify,

521
00:27:00,082 --> 00:27:04,026
or you can try your best
to explain that aspect,

522
00:27:04,126 --> 00:27:05,507
that he's not
on trial for this,

523
00:27:05,607 --> 00:27:07,269
he's on trial
for something else.

524
00:27:07,369 --> 00:27:10,712
But the reality is, those
arguments fall on deaf ears.

525
00:27:10,812 --> 00:27:14,796
The prosecution is going
to say some very ugly things

526
00:27:14,896 --> 00:27:19,001
about his behaviour,
about that specific incident.

527
00:27:19,101 --> 00:27:23,365
I think the defence
would have to be even harsher

528
00:27:23,465 --> 00:27:26,008
and worse in describing
that incident,

529
00:27:26,108 --> 00:27:30,492
and showing how he is absolutely
ashamed, embarrassed,

530
00:27:30,592 --> 00:27:33,375
humiliated,
and incredibly regretful

531
00:27:33,475 --> 00:27:35,217
for that stupid decision.

532
00:27:35,317 --> 00:27:38,680
If you give them nowhere to go,
they've got nowhere to go.

533
00:27:45,447 --> 00:27:48,430
We told you about
this wild lawsuit

534
00:27:48,530 --> 00:27:51,593
that Diddy's ex,
Cassie, filed against him,

535
00:27:51,693 --> 00:27:54,756
alleging rape,
alleging human trafficking.

536
00:27:54,856 --> 00:27:57,358
And as quickly
as it came, it went.

537
00:27:57,458 --> 00:28:00,642
Just over 24 hours
after she filed the lawsuit,

538
00:28:00,742 --> 00:28:03,284
they settled it.
This was shocking.

539
00:28:03,384 --> 00:28:06,007
I mean, we knew that there
would be talk of a settlement.

540
00:28:06,107 --> 00:28:08,409
I just didn't think
it would come this quickly.

541
00:28:08,509 --> 00:28:10,671
[paparazzi shouting]

542
00:28:11,472 --> 00:28:14,896
What's significant
here is that five years

543
00:28:14,996 --> 00:28:17,919
after the breakup,
five years after the breakup,

544
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:20,661
this person comes forward

545
00:28:20,761 --> 00:28:23,864
and says, "I want money."
Not that I want justice,

546
00:28:23,964 --> 00:28:25,666
not that I wanted
to go to the FBI,

547
00:28:25,766 --> 00:28:27,748
not that I went
to Homeland Security

548
00:28:27,848 --> 00:28:29,350
or the local police precinct.

549
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:30,791
I went to a plaintiff's lawyer,

550
00:28:30,891 --> 00:28:32,753
not saying
that she can't do that,

551
00:28:32,853 --> 00:28:36,837
but in terms of the merits of
this as part of a criminal case,

552
00:28:36,937 --> 00:28:38,879
we have to look
at everything including that.

553
00:28:38,979 --> 00:28:40,921
[paparazzi] Hey, Cassie,
how are you? How do you feel

554
00:28:41,021 --> 00:28:43,684
about all the allegations
with Diddy going on right now?

555
00:28:43,784 --> 00:28:46,086
Do you feel justice
is being served right now?

556
00:28:46,186 --> 00:28:50,451
[Levin] How relevant is it
that Cassie, and others,

557
00:28:50,551 --> 00:28:55,776
first filed a lawsuit
or went to a civil lawyer

558
00:28:55,876 --> 00:28:58,058
before going to authorities?

559
00:28:58,158 --> 00:29:01,101
Is that something
that's going to be a big deal
in the criminal case?

560
00:29:01,201 --> 00:29:03,944
Well, I just think it's a fact
that you can't get away from.

561
00:29:04,044 --> 00:29:08,949
I'll give you one
of the standard retorts

562
00:29:09,049 --> 00:29:12,592
by people defending
civil cases is,

563
00:29:12,692 --> 00:29:13,994
who did you first call?

564
00:29:14,094 --> 00:29:16,196
Did you call your doctor
or your lawyer?

565
00:29:16,296 --> 00:29:20,620
And that most people understand
what the difference means.

566
00:29:21,341 --> 00:29:22,963
-[hum of chatter]
-[paparazzi] Straight ahead.

567
00:29:23,063 --> 00:29:25,085
[paparazzi 2] Two of you
looking here, right here for me.

568
00:29:25,185 --> 00:29:27,167
[paparazzi] And right
next to him, please.

569
00:29:27,267 --> 00:29:29,329
[Tacopina] They're going
to paint her as a scorned
ex-girlfriend,

570
00:29:29,429 --> 00:29:31,211
who was looking
for a quick payday,

571
00:29:31,311 --> 00:29:33,773
threatened to sue Combs if
she didn't get her quick payday,

572
00:29:33,873 --> 00:29:36,696
threatened to publish a tell-all
book during her time with him,

573
00:29:36,796 --> 00:29:38,458
and if she didn't get
that, she wanted money.

574
00:29:38,558 --> 00:29:41,101
In fact, that's what happened.
She wound up suing him,

575
00:29:41,201 --> 00:29:43,503
it became very public,
and she got a settlement,

576
00:29:43,603 --> 00:29:46,506
and then there became
a criminal case.

577
00:29:46,606 --> 00:29:48,868
[E. Williams] Jurors are people,
and you've got to appeal

578
00:29:48,968 --> 00:29:51,991
to that human curiosity
that's going to always wonder,

579
00:29:52,091 --> 00:29:55,154
why not want
the person behind bars?

580
00:29:55,254 --> 00:29:57,357
Why not, first and foremost,

581
00:29:57,457 --> 00:30:00,560
be solely concerned
with the criminal outcome?

582
00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:02,602
Not sometimes
taking into account

583
00:30:02,702 --> 00:30:04,844
that the criminal outcome
might not be available

584
00:30:04,944 --> 00:30:06,165
for a litany of reasons.

585
00:30:06,265 --> 00:30:08,247
Therefore civil outcome becomes

586
00:30:08,347 --> 00:30:11,210
something, when something
could be better than nothing.

587
00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:14,093
[♪♪]

588
00:30:14,193 --> 00:30:17,296
[Baez] We all expect victims
of domestic violence

589
00:30:17,396 --> 00:30:19,899
to go to the authorities.

590
00:30:19,999 --> 00:30:21,821
Doesn't always happen
that way, though.

591
00:30:21,921 --> 00:30:24,263
But you still, at the same time,

592
00:30:24,363 --> 00:30:27,066
want to be able to show,
like, look, she had options.

593
00:30:27,166 --> 00:30:28,707
And she chose this option.

594
00:30:28,807 --> 00:30:30,910
And you have to take that
into consideration

595
00:30:31,010 --> 00:30:32,871
when you're analysing
and trying to judge

596
00:30:32,971 --> 00:30:34,954
what a person's motives are,

597
00:30:35,054 --> 00:30:36,595
whether they're telling
the truth or not.

598
00:30:36,695 --> 00:30:38,157
We never know
if someone's lying,

599
00:30:38,257 --> 00:30:39,998
and we have
to be able to utilise

600
00:30:40,098 --> 00:30:41,960
every tool at our disposal

601
00:30:42,060 --> 00:30:44,823
to try and see where
the actual truth lies.

602
00:30:50,669 --> 00:30:54,733
Sean Combs led and participated
in a racketeering conspiracy

603
00:30:54,833 --> 00:30:57,456
that used the business empire
he controlled

604
00:30:57,556 --> 00:30:59,638
to carry out criminal activity.

605
00:31:09,688 --> 00:31:13,351
This is a racketeering case
about threesomes,
at the end of the day,

606
00:31:13,451 --> 00:31:15,553
and this is an important
sort of takeaway.

607
00:31:15,653 --> 00:31:19,077
If they can do this
to Mr. Combs,

608
00:31:19,177 --> 00:31:21,199
and intrude into
his private life,

609
00:31:21,299 --> 00:31:25,003
and build a racketeering case,
then, truly, nobody is safe.

610
00:31:25,103 --> 00:31:28,967
[paparazzi shouting]

611
00:31:29,067 --> 00:31:31,970
[Tacopina] I mean,
this is not what you would find
in a typical racketeering case.

612
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:34,612
These freak-offs, if you will,

613
00:31:34,712 --> 00:31:36,694
are not your typical
racketeering activity.

614
00:31:36,794 --> 00:31:39,097
What normally you would find
is mob murders,

615
00:31:39,197 --> 00:31:42,340
drug cartels,
financial frauds, even.

616
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,263
But something like this
is very, very different,

617
00:31:45,363 --> 00:31:47,065
so it's not going
to be that easy

618
00:31:47,165 --> 00:31:49,107
to sell it as a racketeering
conspiracy.

619
00:31:49,207 --> 00:31:51,629
Who wants to be a millionaire?

620
00:31:51,729 --> 00:31:54,792
If you work hard,
and you dig down deep,

621
00:31:54,892 --> 00:31:56,954
and you stay away
from the bullshit!

622
00:31:57,054 --> 00:31:59,357
You could be a millionaire!
You could be a millionaire!

623
00:31:59,457 --> 00:32:01,439
You could be a millionaire!
[screaming]

624
00:32:01,539 --> 00:32:05,683
This feels like
the feds have taken

625
00:32:05,783 --> 00:32:08,646
Diddy, an individual,

626
00:32:08,746 --> 00:32:12,650
and they have kind of
focused on him

627
00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:15,813
as an organised crime figure.

628
00:32:15,913 --> 00:32:18,255
Does that strike you,

629
00:32:18,355 --> 00:32:22,299
that they're using those tools
against an individual?

630
00:32:22,399 --> 00:32:25,903
It is very true that this
is not the norm, per se.

631
00:32:26,003 --> 00:32:28,786
We don't tend to always
see individuals,

632
00:32:28,886 --> 00:32:32,309
certainly not high-profile
global celebrity figures,

633
00:32:32,409 --> 00:32:35,792
under criminal prosecution
in this format.

634
00:32:35,892 --> 00:32:38,035
But we can't say
it's unprecedented, either,

635
00:32:38,135 --> 00:32:40,237
because, again, you know,
we do have a couple of examples,

636
00:32:40,337 --> 00:32:41,999
R. Kelly being
the most recent to cite.

637
00:32:42,099 --> 00:32:44,081
[reporter] <i>R. Kelly</i>
<i>is spending more time in prison</i>

638
00:32:44,181 --> 00:32:46,763
<i>after being sentenced federally</i>
<i>for child pornography</i>

639
00:32:46,863 --> 00:32:48,805
<i>and enticement</i>
<i>of minors for sex.</i>

640
00:32:48,905 --> 00:32:52,849
[Levin]
R. Kelly really involved minors,

641
00:32:52,949 --> 00:32:56,733
and that's not the case here
with the three alleged victims

642
00:32:56,833 --> 00:32:58,655
that are in
the federal prosecution.

643
00:32:58,755 --> 00:33:01,298
Indeed, but we know that
it's not a requirement

644
00:33:01,398 --> 00:33:03,900
that someone has to be
a legal minor to be

645
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,464
subject to the prosecution
and the elements,

646
00:33:07,564 --> 00:33:11,107
kind of as we know them,
to be at play here.

647
00:33:11,207 --> 00:33:13,990
Combs has been charged
with RICO conspiracy.

648
00:33:14,090 --> 00:33:17,113
He used his business
and employees of that business

649
00:33:17,213 --> 00:33:19,876
and other close associates
to get his way.

650
00:33:19,976 --> 00:33:26,002
How does it strike you that
the federal government is using

651
00:33:26,102 --> 00:33:28,444
kind of organised crime statues

652
00:33:28,544 --> 00:33:32,448
to prosecute, some would say,
what goes on in the bedroom?

653
00:33:32,548 --> 00:33:36,132
If you wanna be honest,
this man's business is not
organised crime.

654
00:33:36,232 --> 00:33:38,254
He's an entertainer
and has been for years,

655
00:33:38,354 --> 00:33:40,656
and he's also been
very successful in business.

656
00:33:40,756 --> 00:33:45,661
Is Diddy so valuable that you
get to own a piece of a business

657
00:33:45,761 --> 00:33:47,303
without putting any money
in to begin with?

658
00:33:47,403 --> 00:33:49,705
-Yes.
-Why?

659
00:33:49,805 --> 00:33:52,388
There is a value
to my involvement

660
00:33:52,488 --> 00:33:54,470
that has to be factored in.

661
00:33:54,570 --> 00:33:57,913
To attack him in that way,
I think it's...

662
00:33:58,013 --> 00:34:00,035
not only false on its face,

663
00:34:00,135 --> 00:34:04,720
but it really tries to get you
to appeal to your biases.

664
00:34:04,820 --> 00:34:09,885
Combs abused, threatened,
and coerced victims to fulfil
his sexual desires,

665
00:34:09,985 --> 00:34:13,689
protect his reputation,
and conceal his conduct.

666
00:34:13,789 --> 00:34:18,774
Can the defence use
the racketeering charge

667
00:34:18,874 --> 00:34:23,899
to say, "This is
how far prosecutors
are going to get him,"

668
00:34:23,999 --> 00:34:29,544
that it's a law that usually
is brought against the mafia,

669
00:34:29,644 --> 00:34:32,227
and here they're bringing it
against an individual?

670
00:34:32,327 --> 00:34:34,309
Does that fly with the jury?

671
00:34:34,409 --> 00:34:36,431
Can it be brought up
by the defence?

672
00:34:36,531 --> 00:34:37,993
[Geragos]
I don't see why it couldn't be.

673
00:34:38,093 --> 00:34:40,916
This seems like
a bridge too far.

674
00:34:41,016 --> 00:34:42,397
Why is it a bridge too far?

675
00:34:42,497 --> 00:34:44,279
Because you would
have to believe

676
00:34:44,379 --> 00:34:50,365
all of the urban legends that
are not in the indictment.

677
00:34:50,465 --> 00:34:54,449
And then it came out that
it was over 1,000 people

678
00:34:54,549 --> 00:34:58,333
that were victims of Diddy
and his weird tactics.

679
00:34:58,433 --> 00:35:00,295
My heart goes out
for these damn kids.

680
00:35:00,395 --> 00:35:01,776
They're little as
nine years old.

681
00:35:01,876 --> 00:35:03,938
He's the equivalent
of a mob boss,

682
00:35:04,038 --> 00:35:06,861
and he has people
working underneath him

683
00:35:06,961 --> 00:35:09,584
to put all these things
into play

684
00:35:09,684 --> 00:35:11,706
so he could benefit
off of the corruption.

685
00:35:11,806 --> 00:35:14,309
That's who he is.
That's who Puffy is.

686
00:35:14,409 --> 00:35:16,731
He's one of
the members of the mob.

687
00:35:17,932 --> 00:35:19,594
He's a mafia member.

688
00:35:19,694 --> 00:35:22,557
What the indictment
does not have in it,

689
00:35:22,657 --> 00:35:28,723
the indictment does not have a
detailed complaint about minors,

690
00:35:28,823 --> 00:35:34,608
does not have
a detailed sex trafficking
other than saying

691
00:35:34,708 --> 00:35:39,013
that there were escorts
who were involved

692
00:35:39,113 --> 00:35:42,576
in consensual private sex.

693
00:35:42,676 --> 00:35:45,579
That's what
the indictment alleges.

694
00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:51,185
It's almost as if this is
Epstein derangement syndrome

695
00:35:51,285 --> 00:35:55,309
in that we never
got our fill with Epstein

696
00:35:55,409 --> 00:35:59,073
because he killed himself
or some other explanation.

697
00:35:59,173 --> 00:36:03,437
And so now we're gonna take all
of those Epstein urban legends

698
00:36:03,537 --> 00:36:07,541
and we're gonna imprint them
or overlay them against Diddy.

699
00:36:11,064 --> 00:36:13,487
I believe the sex workers
throughout the years

700
00:36:13,587 --> 00:36:16,930
are gonna come forward
and say exactly what
they've been through,

701
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:20,614
exactly what they did,
and exactly what they had to do.

702
00:36:20,714 --> 00:36:23,737
One of the allegations is
the interstate transportation

703
00:36:23,837 --> 00:36:27,080
to engage in prostitution,
the Mann Act.

704
00:36:37,170 --> 00:36:38,912
Based on what I know,

705
00:36:39,012 --> 00:36:42,635
one of the things
the prosecution probably
can prove

706
00:36:42,735 --> 00:36:47,801
is that there were sex workers
that did go from
one state to another

707
00:36:47,901 --> 00:36:52,966
and may have been
involved in liaisons with Diddy
and with Cassie

708
00:36:53,066 --> 00:36:55,848
or with one of
the other two witnesses.

709
00:36:55,948 --> 00:36:57,730
What does
the defence do with that?

710
00:36:57,830 --> 00:36:59,772
I don't know that
that's a crime.

711
00:36:59,872 --> 00:37:02,135
-I don't think that's a crime.
-Why not?

712
00:37:02,235 --> 00:37:05,618
You're basically prosecuting
the john, not the pimp.

713
00:37:05,718 --> 00:37:08,301
Who's sending them
across state lines?

714
00:37:08,401 --> 00:37:13,266
The very definition of
a sex worker is that
they work for somebody.

715
00:37:13,366 --> 00:37:15,067
Who do they work for?

716
00:37:15,167 --> 00:37:19,632
So is that a defence that
essentially Diddy is the john

717
00:37:19,732 --> 00:37:25,838
and that prosecutors,
by not going after the pimp
but rather the john,

718
00:37:25,938 --> 00:37:27,600
it kind of shows
they're out to get him?

719
00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:29,321
Is that what
the defence would do?

720
00:37:29,421 --> 00:37:32,164
Just reading the indictment,
that's what strikes me.

721
00:37:32,264 --> 00:37:37,770
I've never seen an indictment
that charges the john
with being a pimp.

722
00:37:37,870 --> 00:37:40,152
[Levin] That sounds like
what we call in the law...

723
00:37:42,154 --> 00:37:44,777
kind of like
selective prosecution,

724
00:37:44,877 --> 00:37:48,580
that you don't
charge johns generally,

725
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,703
but you're charging
this john federally,

726
00:37:51,803 --> 00:37:55,227
and you're overlooking
the sex worker.

727
00:37:55,327 --> 00:37:57,709
Well, and not only
overlooking the sex worker,

728
00:37:57,809 --> 00:38:02,955
then you're throwing in
what appears to be
a domestic violence case,

729
00:38:03,055 --> 00:38:09,841
which is peculiarly a state
offence where the statute of
limitations expired.

730
00:38:09,941 --> 00:38:13,044
And you've heard the expression
"make a federal case out of it."

731
00:38:13,144 --> 00:38:15,447
They've made
a federal case out of it.

732
00:38:15,547 --> 00:38:19,851
If all the prosecution can offer
by way of proof and argument

733
00:38:19,951 --> 00:38:21,773
when they put
this thing up for trial

734
00:38:21,873 --> 00:38:24,736
is that Sean Combs
was having threesomes

735
00:38:24,836 --> 00:38:29,941
and participating with
the enjoyment of legally
hired sexual escorts,

736
00:38:30,041 --> 00:38:31,703
they're gonna lose, period.

737
00:38:31,803 --> 00:38:35,747
I'm on my second mountain.
I'm on my second chance at life.

738
00:38:35,847 --> 00:38:38,790
Every day we get up, y'all,
we get a second chance at life.

739
00:38:38,890 --> 00:38:43,715
And so it's like
I'm in a new era,
and I'm just blessed.

740
00:38:43,815 --> 00:38:47,158
[Agnifilo] For whatever reason,
in this country,

741
00:38:47,258 --> 00:38:52,163
we like to run down the street
with our pitchforks

742
00:38:52,263 --> 00:38:54,766
and our torches
and get the monster.

743
00:38:54,866 --> 00:38:57,208
Here's a man who has made

744
00:38:57,308 --> 00:39:02,293
some of the most important
businesses owned by a Black man.

745
00:39:02,393 --> 00:39:04,936
Run, owned, created, founded.

746
00:39:05,036 --> 00:39:07,979
The vision was that
of a Black man.

747
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:09,180
What have we done?

748
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,781
We have reduced him--

749
00:39:10,881 --> 00:39:14,225
not everyone, but
a large amount of our society--

750
00:39:14,325 --> 00:39:16,427
to being a monster.

751
00:39:16,527 --> 00:39:20,231
That should make us
shake in our boots.

752
00:39:20,331 --> 00:39:22,893
Shake in our boots.

753
00:39:23,294 --> 00:39:26,076
This is the government
scrutinising his businesses.

754
00:39:26,176 --> 00:39:27,678
His businesses are fine.

755
00:39:27,778 --> 00:39:30,521
Scrutinising the taxes,
he pays his taxes.

756
00:39:30,621 --> 00:39:31,722
He does everything right.

757
00:39:31,822 --> 00:39:33,524
What's the last vestige?

758
00:39:33,624 --> 00:39:35,446
We're gonna go into his bedroom.

759
00:39:35,546 --> 00:39:37,127
We're gonna go into his bedroom

760
00:39:37,227 --> 00:39:39,670
'cause maybe we don't like
the way he's having sex.

761
00:39:41,271 --> 00:39:42,573
[man 1] Hey, Diddy, man.

762
00:39:42,673 --> 00:39:45,135
[man 2] Hey, Diddy.
What's up, man?

763
00:39:45,235 --> 00:39:47,257
Man, we've seen this before.

764
00:39:47,357 --> 00:39:50,060
The government's been
doing this for 100 years.

765
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,623
They see an opportunity,
and they start making this case,

766
00:39:53,723 --> 00:39:59,709
in my opinion,
as a takedown, as a takedown
of a successful Black man.

767
00:39:59,809 --> 00:40:01,811
[man] Diddy, what's up, baby?

768
00:40:03,533 --> 00:40:05,475
[Levin] How important
is race in this case?

769
00:40:05,575 --> 00:40:07,797
I have said as long
as I've been practicing,

770
00:40:07,897 --> 00:40:11,641
race permeates everything in
the criminal justice system.

771
00:40:11,741 --> 00:40:13,163
Period. End of story.

772
00:40:13,263 --> 00:40:16,486
Race plays a part of
everything in America.

773
00:40:16,586 --> 00:40:20,610
What has happened with
African Americans, we have
tried to rise above that.

774
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:22,812
Race is tremendously
important in this case,

775
00:40:22,912 --> 00:40:25,295
and anybody that pretends
otherwise is either
kidding themselves

776
00:40:25,395 --> 00:40:26,776
or just not being honest.

777
00:40:26,876 --> 00:40:31,140
Do you think
the defence can point to...

778
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:34,183
the case of Eliot Spitzer, who
was the governor of New York?

779
00:40:34,283 --> 00:40:39,188
I've disappointed and failed
to live up to the standard
I expected of myself.

780
00:40:39,288 --> 00:40:45,154
Who paid $80,000 to prostitutes
to cross state lines.

781
00:40:45,254 --> 00:40:47,797
He was not prosecuted,
and this is the same

782
00:40:47,897 --> 00:40:51,480
U.S. Attorney's Office
that is now prosecuting Diddy.

783
00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:54,563
So the argument
they would make is,

784
00:40:54,663 --> 00:40:58,928
what's really the difference
other than one guy is Black
and one guy is white?

785
00:40:59,028 --> 00:41:02,291
I think it's a great argument.
If I'm the defence lawyer,
I'm making the same argument.

786
00:41:02,391 --> 00:41:07,256
Why would the federal government
be in that business of,

787
00:41:07,356 --> 00:41:09,818
as Diddy's lawyer told me,

788
00:41:09,918 --> 00:41:13,302
an attempt to take down
a successful Black man?

789
00:41:13,402 --> 00:41:15,404
Good headlines
are good for everyone.

790
00:41:17,366 --> 00:41:22,231
The government's not beyond
propaganda, public relations.

791
00:41:22,331 --> 00:41:23,872
Let's face it,
that's their business.

792
00:41:23,972 --> 00:41:25,594
They're better
at it than anyone.

793
00:41:25,694 --> 00:41:28,717
I really do believe
our government's not beyond

794
00:41:28,817 --> 00:41:31,840
exploiting race when
it's convenient for them.

795
00:41:31,940 --> 00:41:36,405
And just looking at
the situation, I think that's
what we're looking at.

796
00:41:36,505 --> 00:41:38,927
Oh, y'all like that, huh?

797
00:41:39,027 --> 00:41:42,330
Y'all like that, y'all like
that, I love y'all, I gotta go.

798
00:41:42,430 --> 00:41:46,615
So the defence has said
that race is gonna be
a big part of their case.

799
00:41:46,715 --> 00:41:51,139
How do they show that this
is a racist prosecution?

800
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,942
As subtly
as they're offering it. I think

801
00:41:54,042 --> 00:41:58,707
juries are attracted
to when you point out
the subtleties

802
00:41:58,807 --> 00:42:00,889
and allow them
to figure things out.

803
00:42:01,249 --> 00:42:04,432
Because they don't wanna be
told what to think.
They wanna think on their own.

804
00:42:04,532 --> 00:42:08,877
So I think the right way and
the right approach should be
to drop the subtle hints

805
00:42:08,977 --> 00:42:13,101
and to let them know
at some point, this is exactly
what you think it is.

806
00:42:19,467 --> 00:42:22,850
I hate to say it,
no offence to my daughter
or Marc Agnifilo,

807
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:25,493
but this case will be over
in jury selection.

808
00:42:25,593 --> 00:42:28,956
Yeah, I think jury selection
is the most important thing.

809
00:42:31,078 --> 00:42:34,502
[McGraw] Harvey, I would go
for deaf, dumb, and blind.

810
00:42:34,602 --> 00:42:37,104
Well, I'm Dr. Phil,
and although you may know me
from television,

811
00:42:37,204 --> 00:42:41,989
I spent most of
my professional career in
the litigation arena,

812
00:42:42,089 --> 00:42:46,574
most notably defending Oprah
in the Mad Cow case,

813
00:42:47,895 --> 00:42:51,759
where she was sued
for billions of dollars,
and we zeroed them out.

814
00:42:51,859 --> 00:42:57,524
[crowd cheering]

815
00:42:57,624 --> 00:43:03,811
Phil, you have been one of the
biggest jury consultants ever.

816
00:43:03,911 --> 00:43:06,613
What kind of a jury,
in broad terms,

817
00:43:06,713 --> 00:43:10,417
do you think the defence wants
and needs in the Diddy case?

818
00:43:10,517 --> 00:43:16,183
I think to begin with,
you're gonna want someone
that is truly open-minded

819
00:43:16,283 --> 00:43:19,706
and is not suffering from
confirmation bias.

820
00:43:19,806 --> 00:43:23,270
That may seem like,
well, that's obvious,
but it really isn't obvious.

821
00:43:23,370 --> 00:43:25,872
I mean, who is actually
open-minded enough?

822
00:43:25,972 --> 00:43:28,835
And the way you're gonna
do that is find people that

823
00:43:28,935 --> 00:43:32,079
can answer some questions
that reveal that

824
00:43:32,179 --> 00:43:34,441
by talking to them about,

825
00:43:34,541 --> 00:43:41,207
tell me some times
in your life where you have
been really surprised,

826
00:43:41,307 --> 00:43:44,371
where you held
a position for a long time,

827
00:43:44,471 --> 00:43:46,493
a deeply held position
in your life,

828
00:43:46,593 --> 00:43:50,256
and you were
really surprised to learn
it was not correct.

829
00:43:50,356 --> 00:43:54,821
So you're looking for people
that can say, hey,
I can change my position.

830
00:43:54,921 --> 00:43:57,624
Can I finish lunch?
And then I'll come out.
I'll holla at y'all.

831
00:43:57,724 --> 00:44:01,948
Just let me finish lunch.
I have a nice business lunch.

832
00:44:02,048 --> 00:44:06,953
Number one,
people who are sympathetic
to his lifestyle and career.

833
00:44:07,053 --> 00:44:10,276
By that, it would be people
who are fans of hip-hop,

834
00:44:10,376 --> 00:44:13,479
maybe music industry
professionals,

835
00:44:13,579 --> 00:44:16,402
people who understand
the entertainment industry.

836
00:44:16,502 --> 00:44:18,564
My name is Jo-Ellan Dimitrius,

837
00:44:18,664 --> 00:44:21,407
and I am a jury consultant
most well known

838
00:44:21,507 --> 00:44:24,450
for working for the defence
on the O.J. Simpson case.

839
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:26,612
We, the jury,
in the above entitled action,

840
00:44:26,712 --> 00:44:28,894
find the defendant,
Orenthal James Simpson,

841
00:44:28,994 --> 00:44:30,496
not guilty of
the crime of murder.

842
00:44:30,596 --> 00:44:33,099
I do believe that if
the defence ends up with

843
00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:38,144
a number of African-American
jurors on their panel,

844
00:44:38,244 --> 00:44:43,829
they have a significantly higher
chance of a not guilty verdict.

845
00:44:43,929 --> 00:44:45,631
I think without question,

846
00:44:45,731 --> 00:44:49,755
whether we want
to acknowledge it or not,

847
00:44:49,855 --> 00:44:55,601
there will be empathy
on the part of Black jurors
for P. Diddy

848
00:44:55,701 --> 00:44:58,924
because this is
a successful Black man,

849
00:44:59,024 --> 00:45:02,528
and that played a big part
during the O.J. Simpson case.

850
00:45:02,628 --> 00:45:05,851
There was definitely reasonable
doubt that we had,

851
00:45:05,951 --> 00:45:09,294
and I'm very comfortable with
the decision that I made.

852
00:45:09,394 --> 00:45:11,657
I would certainly favour
Black men on this jury

853
00:45:11,757 --> 00:45:14,019
if I was the defence,
because I think to this day,

854
00:45:14,119 --> 00:45:16,862
despite all these charges and
all the noise and all the media,

855
00:45:16,962 --> 00:45:20,465
Sean Combs remains,
in many, many ways,

856
00:45:20,565 --> 00:45:23,748
highly aspirational to
Americans, to Black Americans.

857
00:45:23,848 --> 00:45:26,231
There's going to be
an effective connectivity

858
00:45:26,331 --> 00:45:29,794
between Sean Combs
and some Black men that could
potentially sit on that jury.

859
00:45:29,894 --> 00:45:31,476
[woman] We love you, Sean.

860
00:45:31,576 --> 00:45:33,838
There's no one like you.

861
00:45:33,938 --> 00:45:36,041
[Levin]
Based on your experience,

862
00:45:36,141 --> 00:45:41,326
is it better for the defence to
have men or women on the jury?

863
00:45:41,426 --> 00:45:45,730
It would be more
advantageous for the defence

864
00:45:45,830 --> 00:45:50,214
to look at female jurors,
because as females,

865
00:45:50,314 --> 00:45:55,660
we judge other females much
more critically than men do.

866
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,943
The defence is gonna
want to find out from women,

867
00:45:59,043 --> 00:46:01,586
particularly, have they
ever been in a position

868
00:46:01,686 --> 00:46:05,750
where they compromised
their own values to get ahead,

869
00:46:05,850 --> 00:46:08,713
whether it was
professionally or personally?

870
00:46:08,813 --> 00:46:10,715
A woman who says yes to that,

871
00:46:10,815 --> 00:46:14,118
you want to explore more
to find out if, in fact,

872
00:46:14,218 --> 00:46:20,164
the person did have regret
or if they're happy

873
00:46:20,264 --> 00:46:22,266
that they did what they did.

874
00:46:24,308 --> 00:46:28,692
[McGraw] I don't think you
want jurors that have daughters

875
00:46:28,792 --> 00:46:32,416
that are in the window
that would be vulnerable

876
00:46:32,516 --> 00:46:34,898
to the type of things
that are alleged here.

877
00:46:34,998 --> 00:46:37,381
I think you want to be
sensitive to whether or not

878
00:46:37,481 --> 00:46:42,866
they would be empathetic
with the alleged victims

879
00:46:42,966 --> 00:46:46,430
in the case than someone
that did not have children

880
00:46:46,530 --> 00:46:48,792
and therefore wouldn't
put themselves,

881
00:46:48,892 --> 00:46:52,816
if my daughter was in that
situation, how would I feel?

882
00:46:56,139 --> 00:46:58,241
[Levin] There is gonna
be a lot of evidence

883
00:46:58,341 --> 00:47:02,205
in this case involving
lurid sex, freak-offs,

884
00:47:02,305 --> 00:47:05,449
the interstate transportation
of sex workers,

885
00:47:05,549 --> 00:47:07,571
all sorts of sexual acts.

886
00:47:07,671 --> 00:47:11,575
So how does that factor into
the kind of jury you want?

887
00:47:11,675 --> 00:47:14,097
There are two things that
I think about in regard

888
00:47:14,197 --> 00:47:15,979
to the sexual allegations.

889
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:19,302
One is that you
do not want anyone

890
00:47:19,402 --> 00:47:24,107
who they themselves or
a close family member has been

891
00:47:24,207 --> 00:47:26,870
sexually molested or abused.

892
00:47:26,970 --> 00:47:31,554
That is an absolute definitive
in any case like this.

893
00:47:31,654 --> 00:47:34,677
The second is,
you have to find people

894
00:47:34,777 --> 00:47:38,801
who are open to talking
about some pretty

895
00:47:38,901 --> 00:47:42,285
lurid sexual discussions.

896
00:47:42,385 --> 00:47:45,228
It's kind of an interesting
way of voir dire-ing the jury.

897
00:47:46,269 --> 00:47:50,133
Do you ask them about
their sexual tolerance,

898
00:47:50,233 --> 00:47:52,575
their proclivities,
things like that?

899
00:47:52,675 --> 00:47:56,979
Yeah. There is a very
sensitive aspect to getting

900
00:47:57,079 --> 00:47:59,101
into someone's
sexual proclivity.

901
00:47:59,201 --> 00:48:02,785
But I think that there is
a way to design questions

902
00:48:02,885 --> 00:48:06,268
that you can explore that.

903
00:48:06,368 --> 00:48:09,632
[McGraw] There's another thing
that I think is important here

904
00:48:09,732 --> 00:48:12,154
that people wouldn't
ordinarily think about

905
00:48:12,254 --> 00:48:15,998
that I often leaned into
in complex trials.

906
00:48:16,098 --> 00:48:19,241
And that is the collective
personality of the jury.

907
00:48:19,341 --> 00:48:22,605
I would want
a very diverse jury.

908
00:48:22,705 --> 00:48:25,367
I don't want this jury
getting along well.

909
00:48:25,467 --> 00:48:27,770
I want this jury to be
coming from a lot

910
00:48:27,870 --> 00:48:31,293
of different walks of life.
I want them arguing.

911
00:48:31,393 --> 00:48:33,695
I think one of the things
you may be looking for

912
00:48:33,795 --> 00:48:36,979
is to hang this jury up
and not get to a verdict.

913
00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:39,221
And if you have a divided jury,

914
00:48:39,321 --> 00:48:42,024
a diverse jury that
doesn't get along well,

915
00:48:42,124 --> 00:48:45,227
you could very well hang this
independent of the evidence.

916
00:48:45,327 --> 00:48:48,230
[tense music]

917
00:48:48,330 --> 00:48:52,474
[Levin] The problem is that he's
sitting in jail without bail.

918
00:48:52,574 --> 00:48:56,718
So if the jury is hung
and they retry him,

919
00:48:56,818 --> 00:49:00,402
he sits in jail, which is
ultimately the endgame.

920
00:49:00,502 --> 00:49:04,886
So does getting
a hung jury really

921
00:49:04,986 --> 00:49:06,808
accomplish something
for the defence?

922
00:49:06,908 --> 00:49:08,730
It does. And I'll tell you what,

923
00:49:08,830 --> 00:49:10,972
they're gonna come at him
with everything they've got.

924
00:49:11,072 --> 00:49:12,534
And if you have
an initial trial,

925
00:49:12,634 --> 00:49:14,816
you're gonna see every
card they've got,

926
00:49:14,916 --> 00:49:18,700
every witness they have,
everything that they can bring.

927
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,022
You're gonna put all
their cards on the table.

928
00:49:21,122 --> 00:49:24,425
And your ability to prepare
for that the second time around

929
00:49:24,525 --> 00:49:27,909
is gonna help you
for the second trial,

930
00:49:28,009 --> 00:49:29,991
if there is a second trial.

931
00:49:30,091 --> 00:49:33,154
And depending on how close
they got to a conviction,

932
00:49:33,254 --> 00:49:36,857
their appetite for doing this
a second time could go way down.

933
00:49:37,658 --> 00:49:39,800
That's what it is.
These are crooked people.

934
00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:42,203
It never happened in our--
it's called weaponisation

935
00:49:42,303 --> 00:49:45,486
of the Department
of Justice or the FBI.

936
00:49:45,586 --> 00:49:47,448
We've never had
anything like this.

937
00:49:47,548 --> 00:49:50,331
And it's all bullshit, too.
It's all stuff.

938
00:49:50,431 --> 00:49:53,054
[reporter]
<i>The president reaching</i>
<i>his final decision Sunday,</i>

939
00:49:53,154 --> 00:49:57,178
<i>writing in a statement,</i>
<i>"No reasonable person who looks</i>
<i>at the facts of Hunter's cases</i>

940
00:49:57,278 --> 00:50:00,261
<i>can reach any other</i>
<i>conclusion than Hunter was</i>

941
00:50:00,361 --> 00:50:03,304
<i>singled out,</i>
<i>only because he is my son.</i>

942
00:50:03,404 --> 00:50:04,905
<i>And that is wrong."</i>

943
00:50:05,005 --> 00:50:07,508
Is this a good time
for the defence,

944
00:50:07,608 --> 00:50:10,991
in that there is
a distrust of institutions,

945
00:50:11,091 --> 00:50:13,774
especially
the Justice Department?

946
00:50:15,455 --> 00:50:18,318
We've heard both
Democrats and Republicans

947
00:50:18,418 --> 00:50:22,763
talking about the Justice
Department becoming weaponised,

948
00:50:22,863 --> 00:50:24,925
unfair, targeting.

949
00:50:25,025 --> 00:50:27,287
Does that calculate here?

950
00:50:27,387 --> 00:50:31,371
This is the best time that
I can think in my lifetime,

951
00:50:31,471 --> 00:50:35,655
actually, for someone
to challenge the legitimacy

952
00:50:35,755 --> 00:50:37,537
of a federal prosecution.

953
00:50:37,637 --> 00:50:39,459
And don't say
that lightly at all.

954
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:43,263
The skepticism,
the downright disbelief

955
00:50:43,363 --> 00:50:46,266
around kind of
historic institutions,

956
00:50:46,366 --> 00:50:49,149
whether it be the DOJ,
whether it be
the United States Supreme Court,

957
00:50:49,249 --> 00:50:52,993
what is really behind
the targeting of certain
individuals,

958
00:50:53,093 --> 00:50:55,555
whether they be
elected officials, celebrities,

959
00:50:55,655 --> 00:50:58,878
tech billionaires,
you name it, it's all fair game.

960
00:50:58,978 --> 00:51:00,960
[overlapping chatter]

961
00:51:01,060 --> 00:51:02,922
Get you something special.

962
00:51:03,022 --> 00:51:05,845
[E. Williams] If I'm a
defence counsel or a defendant,

963
00:51:05,945 --> 00:51:08,848
it's a good time to be putting
12 in a box, so to speak,

964
00:51:08,948 --> 00:51:11,891
to challenge and really
suss out the credibility

965
00:51:11,991 --> 00:51:13,453
of the charging institutions.

966
00:51:13,553 --> 00:51:15,054
[McGraw]
One of the things that I think

967
00:51:15,154 --> 00:51:17,377
you have to do
in a case like this

968
00:51:17,477 --> 00:51:19,859
is what I call
plaintiffing the defence.

969
00:51:19,959 --> 00:51:22,862
And that is, rather
than defending P. Diddy,

970
00:51:22,962 --> 00:51:26,806
what you need to do is
put the prosecution on trial

971
00:51:29,328 --> 00:51:32,672
for prosecutorial abuse,
misconduct,

972
00:51:32,772 --> 00:51:35,074
overreach,
abuse of their authority.

973
00:51:35,174 --> 00:51:37,036
Now, people are listening
to this and probably saying,

974
00:51:37,136 --> 00:51:39,318
"Wow,
that seems really unfair."

975
00:51:39,418 --> 00:51:41,921
It's not a matter of unfair.
This is a chess game.

976
00:51:42,021 --> 00:51:45,444
This is chess, not checkers.
It's a matter of doing what
you're doing

977
00:51:45,544 --> 00:51:48,527
and gathering the information
you're doing
in a very subtle way.

978
00:51:48,627 --> 00:51:53,252
I'm not saying that everybody is
as adept at it as everyone else.

979
00:51:53,352 --> 00:51:55,494
I'm just saying,
your client is entitled

980
00:51:55,594 --> 00:51:57,676
to the best defence
you can provide them.

981
00:52:03,842 --> 00:52:07,686
[apprehensive music]

982
00:52:11,850 --> 00:52:16,074
Okay, so you have seen two
of our documentaries on Diddy,

983
00:52:16,174 --> 00:52:19,878
one which really focuses
on the prosecution's case,

984
00:52:19,978 --> 00:52:23,642
another on the defence.

985
00:52:23,742 --> 00:52:27,546
You will deliberate,
hopefully come to verdicts.

986
00:52:28,547 --> 00:52:30,829
We will see. Good luck.

987
00:52:37,796 --> 00:52:41,399
[inquisitive music]

988
00:52:50,368 --> 00:52:52,831
When we heard
about racketeering,

989
00:52:52,931 --> 00:52:54,552
the biggest question--

990
00:52:54,652 --> 00:52:56,794
and I don't wanna say
where I'm leaning--

991
00:52:56,894 --> 00:52:59,477
but there has been no profit
motive involved at all.

992
00:52:59,577 --> 00:53:01,799
-The last word is "profit."
-He's already reached.

993
00:53:01,899 --> 00:53:05,683
So whether or not he had the
freak-offs or he did whatever--

994
00:53:05,783 --> 00:53:07,125
Follow the money.

995
00:53:07,225 --> 00:53:08,846
Well, there is
no money to foll--

996
00:53:08,946 --> 00:53:11,048
I mean,
the freak-offs aren't a--

997
00:53:11,148 --> 00:53:13,811
Okay, the way
in which I read it,
it's not an illegal business.

998
00:53:13,911 --> 00:53:16,574
A freak-off is a freak--
or whatever these
things are, right?

999
00:53:16,674 --> 00:53:18,095
Yeah.

1000
00:53:18,195 --> 00:53:20,498
[juror] But the profit--
that last word actually

1001
00:53:20,598 --> 00:53:22,219
got my attention
'cause I was like,

1002
00:53:22,319 --> 00:53:24,902
how is he making any money
in that thing at all?

1003
00:53:25,002 --> 00:53:26,624
So I don't know.

1004
00:53:26,724 --> 00:53:28,786
You follow the money in
a lot of situations like this

1005
00:53:28,886 --> 00:53:31,549
if you really wanna
get to the truth, right?
I wholeheartedly agree.

1006
00:53:31,649 --> 00:53:34,271
If you take "For profit,"
the last two words of this

1007
00:53:34,371 --> 00:53:36,554
definition out of it,
does it change the way

1008
00:53:36,654 --> 00:53:38,275
you look at it
or the validity of

1009
00:53:38,375 --> 00:53:39,997
-that allegation
towards him at all?
-Well,

1010
00:53:40,097 --> 00:53:42,519
I don't believe that you
can take profit out of this.

1011
00:53:42,619 --> 00:53:45,683
And simply because this is
what he's been charged with.

1012
00:53:45,783 --> 00:53:48,245
And from what I could see,
there was no profit.

1013
00:53:48,345 --> 00:53:51,809
It does say that,
so that last sentence, right?

1014
00:53:51,909 --> 00:53:53,730
"And Combs to
and from freak-offs,

1015
00:53:53,830 --> 00:53:56,053
resupplying Combs
with requested supplies,

1016
00:53:56,153 --> 00:53:58,415
delivering large sums
of cash to Combs."

1017
00:53:58,515 --> 00:54:00,377
So there was profit to him

1018
00:54:00,477 --> 00:54:03,020
to the pay of
commercial sex workers.

1019
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,182
He could turn around and say,
I didn't make any money.

1020
00:54:05,282 --> 00:54:07,144
I gave you money.
I mean,

1021
00:54:07,244 --> 00:54:09,506
if racketeering is
what racketeering is, right?

1022
00:54:09,606 --> 00:54:12,789
And I'm thinking, you
know, mob and other stuff,

1023
00:54:12,889 --> 00:54:15,272
even if people turn on him,
he's like,
what kind of money did I make?

1024
00:54:15,372 --> 00:54:17,154
Maybe I did increase my profile,

1025
00:54:17,254 --> 00:54:19,436
but my profile was
wherever it was before.

1026
00:54:19,536 --> 00:54:22,599
Like, I actually
think the racketeering charge

1027
00:54:22,699 --> 00:54:25,482
might be the hardest one
for anybody to pull off.

1028
00:54:25,582 --> 00:54:27,283
But if these
parties are sponsored,

1029
00:54:27,383 --> 00:54:29,846
and like any of
those parties are paid for

1030
00:54:29,946 --> 00:54:32,128
by his business
and Combs Enterprises,

1031
00:54:32,228 --> 00:54:33,930
it's a business activity.

1032
00:54:34,030 --> 00:54:36,573
Right, but it's a loss.
It's not a profit.

1033
00:54:36,673 --> 00:54:38,895
I mean, if it's on your ledger,
Combs Enterprise could be like,

1034
00:54:38,995 --> 00:54:41,417
this is part of my marketing
budget, my marketing budget

1035
00:54:41,517 --> 00:54:43,820
doesn't give me any income.
I just kick out money.

1036
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,783
[juror] Is he the only
person being prosecuted?

1037
00:54:46,883 --> 00:54:48,584
There's nobody else
in jail but him.

1038
00:54:48,684 --> 00:54:50,827
'Cause he was the ultimate
facilitator of all of this.

1039
00:54:50,927 --> 00:54:54,430
He was the Gatsby,
if you will, of all of this.

1040
00:54:54,530 --> 00:54:56,152
He was the one
who probably, as--

1041
00:54:56,252 --> 00:54:57,713
He's the one with the name.

1042
00:54:57,813 --> 00:54:59,515
He's the man with the money.
I get that.

1043
00:54:59,615 --> 00:55:01,277
Wanted to be the centre
of all of it as a star.

1044
00:55:01,377 --> 00:55:03,159
[juror] If he's guilty
and it's a big enterprise,

1045
00:55:03,259 --> 00:55:04,800
then where is all
the other associates?

1046
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:06,762
If you're gonna bring one down,
bring 'em all down.

1047
00:55:06,862 --> 00:55:08,284
Yeah, that's what--

1048
00:55:08,384 --> 00:55:09,925
Well, maybe they will later.

1049
00:55:10,025 --> 00:55:13,169
Like, it says employees,
as well carried this out.

1050
00:55:13,269 --> 00:55:14,890
So maybe they're still coming.

1051
00:55:14,990 --> 00:55:18,073
[tense music]

1052
00:55:28,764 --> 00:55:31,146
This is a duck.
Like, if it walks like a duck

1053
00:55:31,246 --> 00:55:32,668
and it quacks like a duck,
it's a duck.

1054
00:55:32,768 --> 00:55:35,270
-This is a duck, to me.
-[juror] I believe you.

1055
00:55:35,370 --> 00:55:38,353
I'm like, this--
unlike the racketeering charge,
this is a duck.

1056
00:55:38,453 --> 00:55:40,235
-[juror] I agree with you.
-Like, wait a second.

1057
00:55:40,335 --> 00:55:42,758
And even when
Geragos was talking

1058
00:55:42,858 --> 00:55:44,800
about flying somebody
from LA to Vegas to party,

1059
00:55:44,900 --> 00:55:46,481
you ain't supposed to do
that either.

1060
00:55:46,581 --> 00:55:48,604
That's sex trafficking,
whether it's by force.

1061
00:55:48,704 --> 00:55:51,166
I mean, athletes do that.
Everybody flies
girls out nowadays.

1062
00:55:51,266 --> 00:55:53,729
-It's 2025.
-It's illegal, though.
I mean, this is the thing--

1063
00:55:53,829 --> 00:55:56,611
-It's illegal.
-No, no, I'm not saying
that people don't do it.

1064
00:55:56,711 --> 00:55:59,775
I mean, but it's illegal.
Like, this is the charge,
you know what I'm saying?

1065
00:55:59,875 --> 00:56:02,818
-Every day, all day.
-Can you convince me that
the sex trafficking by force

1066
00:56:02,918 --> 00:56:04,699
and fraud was
proven enough for me

1067
00:56:04,799 --> 00:56:06,501
to believe that this
actually went down?

1068
00:56:06,601 --> 00:56:08,503
Oh, because the transportation
of all of these people

1069
00:56:08,603 --> 00:56:10,185
from across
the country or state lines

1070
00:56:10,285 --> 00:56:12,287
is something that's
established, right?

1071
00:56:12,607 --> 00:56:15,670
They were flown out in private
jets or in regular 747s.

1072
00:56:15,770 --> 00:56:17,272
That much is on paper.

1073
00:56:17,372 --> 00:56:18,913
Does that prove that
it's sex trafficking?

1074
00:56:19,013 --> 00:56:21,436
No, but it's a pretty
damn strong indication.

1075
00:56:21,536 --> 00:56:24,118
[juror] But the coercion piece
is somebody mentioned about,

1076
00:56:24,218 --> 00:56:26,481
you know, people wanting their
career to blow up or whatever.

1077
00:56:26,581 --> 00:56:28,883
That's coercion. I mean, it's
different modes of coercion.

1078
00:56:28,983 --> 00:56:31,886
And whether or not, you know,
you shouldn't make that choice,

1079
00:56:31,986 --> 00:56:34,289
you did make a choice,
but it's coercion.

1080
00:56:34,389 --> 00:56:37,612
[juror] That has nothing
to do with sex trafficking
and prostituting them.

1081
00:56:37,712 --> 00:56:39,974
For the purpose of
a commercial sex act.

1082
00:56:40,074 --> 00:56:42,016
[juror] Yeah, but I don't
see the coercion part.

1083
00:56:42,116 --> 00:56:44,539
Like, he willingly did it

1084
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:46,581
and then the person
willingly accepted.

1085
00:56:46,681 --> 00:56:48,823
I don't--I don't see the--

1086
00:56:48,923 --> 00:56:51,706
[juror] One thing that I haven't
heard said at this table
yet is bribery.

1087
00:56:51,806 --> 00:56:54,268
So he probably promised
a lot of these people

1088
00:56:54,368 --> 00:56:55,990
either fame, fortune, riches.

1089
00:56:56,090 --> 00:56:57,832
Whether or not he delivered,
I doubt it.

1090
00:56:57,932 --> 00:56:59,633
But that's another
matter entirely, right?

1091
00:56:59,733 --> 00:57:02,236
So that's obviously--
if he incentivised

1092
00:57:02,336 --> 00:57:04,558
some of these people
in order to participate

1093
00:57:04,658 --> 00:57:06,881
in all of these things, that
wouldn't surprise me at all.

1094
00:57:06,981 --> 00:57:08,682
Is that a definition
or does that fit

1095
00:57:08,782 --> 00:57:11,125
a definition of coercion
in any way, bribery?

1096
00:57:11,225 --> 00:57:13,687
I think his name alone
would make them do that.

1097
00:57:13,787 --> 00:57:15,809
I don't even think he
would have to do anything.

1098
00:57:15,909 --> 00:57:17,371
I'll help you with your career.

1099
00:57:17,471 --> 00:57:19,253
I'll make you a star.
Come party with me.

1100
00:57:19,353 --> 00:57:21,095
[juror] Girls, if you listen
to what they say,

1101
00:57:21,195 --> 00:57:23,377
'cause I'm a little bit younger.
I can see the social media.

1102
00:57:23,477 --> 00:57:25,058
Girls asked to get
flown out nowadays.

1103
00:57:25,158 --> 00:57:27,141
Does that mean I go
to jail 'cause I did it?

1104
00:57:27,241 --> 00:57:28,942
It depends on
whether or not there's

1105
00:57:29,042 --> 00:57:31,585
sexual activity, drug use,
whether that sexual activity is

1106
00:57:31,685 --> 00:57:33,427
-consensual or not.
-Consent issue.

1107
00:57:33,527 --> 00:57:35,309
[juror] It's about what happens
after they fly them out.

1108
00:57:35,409 --> 00:57:37,311
If he flies them out saying,
"Hey, I wanna hear your voice,

1109
00:57:37,411 --> 00:57:39,152
I want you to record
a few songs for me,

1110
00:57:39,252 --> 00:57:41,475
I think you've got potential,"
something like that, then...

1111
00:57:41,575 --> 00:57:43,917
absolutely, what you just
said right there describes that.

1112
00:57:44,017 --> 00:57:45,999
But what happens after
he flies them out?

1113
00:57:46,099 --> 00:57:48,562
Are they pumped full of ketamine
and having sex with six,

1114
00:57:48,662 --> 00:57:50,323
-eight people
they don't even know?
-See, if you can prove

1115
00:57:50,423 --> 00:57:52,445
that he snuck drugs into them

1116
00:57:52,545 --> 00:57:55,068
and then stuff started
happening, then yes, he can.

1117
00:57:55,388 --> 00:57:58,171
Wait, so you're saying,
I can't change my mind
after I get on the plane?

1118
00:57:58,271 --> 00:58:00,974
No, no, no, no,
I'm not saying--no,
no, no, I'm not saying that.

1119
00:58:01,074 --> 00:58:04,958
I'm saying, like, all right,
so you might not wanna hook up
with him at the time, all right?

1120
00:58:05,278 --> 00:58:07,260
You get out there,
no one knows what happens

1121
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:08,782
when you're hanging out.

1122
00:58:08,882 --> 00:58:11,905
If drug use is in your
system the next day

1123
00:58:12,005 --> 00:58:14,267
and stuff happened
that you weren't ready for,

1124
00:58:14,367 --> 00:58:17,190
you can prove that I did
not want this to happen.

1125
00:58:17,290 --> 00:58:19,592
Right. Cassie was in
a relationship for 10 years.

1126
00:58:19,692 --> 00:58:21,514
I don't know how
you were coerced.

1127
00:58:21,614 --> 00:58:23,756
I don't even read--
I can't see it,

1128
00:58:23,856 --> 00:58:25,958
if you were in a relationship
with him for ten years.

1129
00:58:26,058 --> 00:58:28,601
I don't know how many years
the other two ladies were

1130
00:58:28,701 --> 00:58:30,643
in a relationship with him,
but ten years?

1131
00:58:30,743 --> 00:58:33,105
Well, look at how many, like,
abusive relationships there are

1132
00:58:33,426 --> 00:58:35,007
and how long those women stay.

1133
00:58:35,107 --> 00:58:37,009
Like, it can be up to,
like, over 20 years.

1134
00:58:37,109 --> 00:58:39,512
Terrified,
because they don't wanna get
strangled or something.

1135
00:58:39,832 --> 00:58:41,774
And imagine it being the most
powerful person there is

1136
00:58:41,874 --> 00:58:44,016
in like the rap career.
I would stay for that long, too.

1137
00:58:44,116 --> 00:58:45,698
Why wouldn't I?

1138
00:58:45,798 --> 00:58:48,761
[juror] The three
girlfriends' question is,

1139
00:58:49,081 --> 00:58:52,224
can you be in a relationship
and still be coerced sexually?

1140
00:58:52,324 --> 00:58:55,748
- And I think you just answered.
- Whether or not
you think about it, yeah.

1141
00:58:55,848 --> 00:58:58,270
So I think that's a yes.
I don't think time
in a relationship

1142
00:58:58,370 --> 00:59:00,352
stops you from being coerced.

1143
00:59:00,452 --> 00:59:02,194
I think it probably gets worse.

1144
00:59:02,294 --> 00:59:03,676
But can you be
coerced when you're

1145
00:59:03,776 --> 00:59:05,778
in a consensual relationship?

1146
00:59:06,378 --> 00:59:08,520
With a man like him, what if
they felt like they would be

1147
00:59:08,620 --> 00:59:11,483
tracked down, they would be
found, they would be blacklisted
everywhere,

1148
00:59:11,583 --> 00:59:13,485
they would be broke. -Or killed.
-Or their family, yeah.

1149
00:59:13,585 --> 00:59:16,288
There were rumours he put
a car bomb in one of their cars.

1150
00:59:16,388 --> 00:59:19,171
-And they say
he's one of the mob.
-I mean, it's a rumour. Rumour.

1151
00:59:19,271 --> 00:59:22,054
And she tried to get out of,
like, the hotel and he literally

1152
00:59:22,154 --> 00:59:24,296
kicked her and dragged
her back in the room.

1153
00:59:24,396 --> 00:59:26,098
It's not like
he just grabbed her.

1154
00:59:26,198 --> 00:59:28,340
He grabbed her and dragged her,
and then kicked her,

1155
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:29,781
and then kicked her again.

1156
00:59:29,881 --> 00:59:31,583
And it's just like,
you cannot...

1157
00:59:31,683 --> 00:59:32,664
unwatch that.

1158
00:59:32,764 --> 00:59:35,807
[apprehensive music]

1159
00:59:45,016 --> 00:59:48,360
So he transported from either
one state or one country
to Miami,

1160
00:59:48,460 --> 00:59:50,041
over state or country lines.

1161
00:59:50,141 --> 00:59:51,883
-Thank you.
-Compared to the other ones,

1162
00:59:51,983 --> 00:59:53,645
this is a little
more obvious to me.

1163
00:59:53,745 --> 00:59:56,287
-Yeah. No debate for me.
-Yeah, I mean, I think--

1164
00:59:56,387 --> 00:59:58,089
Ain't no party
like a Diddy party.

1165
00:59:58,189 --> 01:00:01,372
And I say that
because maybe someone was

1166
01:00:01,472 --> 01:00:04,415
coming from out of town
to party with Diddy,

1167
01:00:04,515 --> 01:00:05,937
they ended up having sex.

1168
01:00:06,037 --> 01:00:08,019
But does that mean that
they were a sex worker?

1169
01:00:08,119 --> 01:00:10,541
They might have just been
coming to have a party.

1170
01:00:10,641 --> 01:00:12,663
-No, no, but that's not--
-You know what I'm saying?

1171
01:00:12,763 --> 01:00:15,706
-[juror] That's something else.
-But if you go to a Diddy party,

1172
01:00:15,806 --> 01:00:18,109
this is gonna sound--
but if you go to a Diddy party

1173
01:00:18,209 --> 01:00:21,072
and you have sex with a sex
worker that Diddy has flown in,

1174
01:00:21,172 --> 01:00:23,554
-that ain't you, that's--
-I don't know he flew her out.

1175
01:00:23,654 --> 01:00:26,237
No, no, but I'm saying,
that's what I'm saying.

1176
01:00:26,337 --> 01:00:28,799
There's a credit card receipt
for that or something like that.

1177
01:00:28,899 --> 01:00:30,801
-I have no idea.
-He's been so
wealthy and powerful--

1178
01:00:30,901 --> 01:00:32,763
Maybe he just
cashed in, you know?

1179
01:00:32,863 --> 01:00:34,925
As someone who works for him's
assistant making these payments.

1180
01:00:35,025 --> 01:00:36,847
-[juror] No paper trail.
-He's so resourceful.

1181
01:00:36,947 --> 01:00:39,730
He's got dozens of people who
could be carrying out something.

1182
01:00:39,830 --> 01:00:42,132
And it may not even be money.
It might be just a favour.

1183
01:00:42,232 --> 01:00:45,055
Or ungodly amounts of cash
that the man has hanging around,
right?

1184
01:00:45,155 --> 01:00:49,260
I'm crystal clear that
this happens to hund--

1185
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,061
I mean, seriously,
a hundred dudes,

1186
01:00:51,161 --> 01:00:52,823
white dudes in LA
doing this right now.

1187
01:00:52,923 --> 01:00:54,184
-A hundred, easy.
-[juror] 100%.

1188
01:00:54,284 --> 01:00:56,947
However, no, they are not Diddy.

1189
01:00:57,047 --> 01:01:00,190
But no, they don't have
a 14-page indictment.

1190
01:01:00,290 --> 01:01:02,713
I mean, he committed crimes.
He ain't the only dude
committing crimes.

1191
01:01:02,813 --> 01:01:06,196
He committed crimes.
Our job, as a jury,
is to whether or not we say,

1192
01:01:06,296 --> 01:01:08,959
we find him guilty or not
guilty on these three charges.

1193
01:01:09,059 --> 01:01:11,722
It ain't right.
It definitely ain't right.
You know what I mean?

1194
01:01:11,822 --> 01:01:13,844
Yeah, that's all I was saying.

1195
01:01:13,944 --> 01:01:15,946
It definitely
ain't right, though.

1196
01:01:16,386 --> 01:01:19,829
[tense music]

1197
01:01:31,401 --> 01:01:33,303
[Levin] Has the jury voted?

1198
01:01:33,403 --> 01:01:35,505
-Yes, sir.
-Yes.

1199
01:01:35,605 --> 01:01:38,648
Madam Foreperson,
will you stand, please?

1200
01:01:40,210 --> 01:01:41,831
And will you read the verdict?

1201
01:01:41,931 --> 01:01:43,833
Yes.

1202
01:01:43,933 --> 01:01:46,276
We, the jury,
in the above entitled action,

1203
01:01:46,376 --> 01:01:49,299
find the defendant,
Sean "Diddy" Combs,

1204
01:01:50,580 --> 01:01:53,323
six guilty,
six not guilty for the crime

1205
01:01:53,423 --> 01:01:55,204
of racketeering conspiracy.

1206
01:01:55,304 --> 01:01:57,306
Split down the middle.

1207
01:01:58,788 --> 01:02:00,329
Second count.

1208
01:02:00,429 --> 01:02:02,772
We, the jury,
in the above entitled action,

1209
01:02:02,872 --> 01:02:05,815
find the defendant,
Sean "Diddy" Combs,

1210
01:02:05,915 --> 01:02:08,417
ten guilty,
two not guilty of the crime of

1211
01:02:08,517 --> 01:02:11,460
sex trafficking by force,
fraud, or coercion.

1212
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,502
And the final count?

1213
01:02:13,602 --> 01:02:16,425
We, the jury,
in the above entitled action,

1214
01:02:16,525 --> 01:02:18,527
find the defendant,
Sean "Diddy" Combs

1215
01:02:21,050 --> 01:02:23,432
12 guilty of the crime
of transportation

1216
01:02:23,532 --> 01:02:25,114
to engage in prostitution.

1217
01:02:25,214 --> 01:02:28,357
[Levin] So on the last count,
the jury was unanimous.

1218
01:02:28,457 --> 01:02:29,959
Yes, sir.

1219
01:02:30,059 --> 01:02:32,841
Thank you, Madam Foreperson.

1220
01:02:32,941 --> 01:02:36,725
Why was it easier
for you to come together

1221
01:02:36,825 --> 01:02:39,128
on that last count,
the transportation

1222
01:02:39,228 --> 01:02:41,370
of prostitution charge?

1223
01:02:41,470 --> 01:02:43,372
It's the evidence
that was placed before us

1224
01:02:43,472 --> 01:02:46,295
with the women and
the stories that we were hearing

1225
01:02:46,395 --> 01:02:51,540
and the videos that we seen,
him in his full prime,
abusing somebody.

1226
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,543
So it just makes it
more believable for me

1227
01:02:54,643 --> 01:02:56,465
that he can do other
things as well.

1228
01:02:56,565 --> 01:02:59,348
So it's interesting,

1229
01:02:59,448 --> 01:03:04,352
because the Cassie video really
doesn't relate to that count.

1230
01:03:04,452 --> 01:03:06,755
It relates to the other counts.

1231
01:03:06,855 --> 01:03:09,878
Yet on that one,
you were unanimous.

1232
01:03:09,978 --> 01:03:13,201
How many people
did this profoundly impact

1233
01:03:13,301 --> 01:03:15,243
in making your decision,
that Cassie video?

1234
01:03:15,343 --> 01:03:18,166
-Show of hands.
-Cassie video.

1235
01:03:18,266 --> 01:03:21,029
So it really impacted you folks.

1236
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:24,052
Did it turn it for you?

1237
01:03:24,152 --> 01:03:26,134
-Yeah.
-Why?

1238
01:03:26,234 --> 01:03:29,818
Being a woman myself
and seeing a woman like that,

1239
01:03:29,918 --> 01:03:33,581
it just made me more sensitive
to the whole case itself

1240
01:03:33,681 --> 01:03:36,464
and probably maybe more
siding with the victims,

1241
01:03:36,564 --> 01:03:38,466
seeing a victim instead of him

1242
01:03:38,566 --> 01:03:40,548
being the person
that was attacking her.

1243
01:03:40,648 --> 01:03:42,150
So I can't side with him

1244
01:03:42,250 --> 01:03:43,992
because I don't see
anything done to him

1245
01:03:44,092 --> 01:03:45,753
in that light that was done
to her.

1246
01:03:45,853 --> 01:03:47,915
I didn't know much
about the case at all.

1247
01:03:48,015 --> 01:03:50,638
So I came in
completely objective.

1248
01:03:50,738 --> 01:03:54,642
And watching him
beat his girlfriend--

1249
01:03:54,742 --> 01:03:57,245
he's, like, prohibiting her
from leaving as well--

1250
01:03:57,345 --> 01:03:58,926
it's very distressing to watch.

1251
01:03:59,026 --> 01:04:02,690
So you found him guilty
on that third count?

1252
01:04:02,790 --> 01:04:03,971
Yes, sir.

1253
01:04:04,071 --> 01:04:05,893
Based on that third count,

1254
01:04:05,993 --> 01:04:07,535
should Diddy go to prison?

1255
01:04:07,635 --> 01:04:09,777
-Yeah, I think so.
-Why?

1256
01:04:09,877 --> 01:04:12,419
He has proven
time and time again

1257
01:04:12,519 --> 01:04:15,142
that he has gotten away
with so many things

1258
01:04:15,242 --> 01:04:17,024
that he obviously shouldn't
have gotten away with,

1259
01:04:17,124 --> 01:04:20,067
and it's gotten to such
a point where he is such,

1260
01:04:20,167 --> 01:04:22,389
like, honestly
a danger to society

1261
01:04:22,489 --> 01:04:24,191
and a danger to,
like, women in general.

1262
01:04:24,291 --> 01:04:27,114
So I don't think he should
be, like, out in public.

1263
01:04:27,214 --> 01:04:29,156
I don't think he should
be doing it anymore.

1264
01:04:29,256 --> 01:04:30,838
He's gotten too
many free passes.

1265
01:04:30,938 --> 01:04:32,920
Your question about
whether he should do time

1266
01:04:33,020 --> 01:04:36,203
is challenging 'cause I don't
know if he should do time.

1267
01:04:36,303 --> 01:04:38,445
Is the racial component
what's giving you pause?

1268
01:04:38,545 --> 01:04:40,527
Yeah,
there's no doubt about that.

1269
01:04:40,627 --> 01:04:42,129
I mean,
there's enough brothers in jail.

1270
01:04:42,229 --> 01:04:44,531
They don't need to--
I mean, there's enough.

1271
01:04:44,631 --> 01:04:47,033
[apprehensive music]

1272
01:04:55,482 --> 01:05:00,287
[theme music]