1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.LT 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.LT 3 00:00:20,641 --> 00:00:26,095 [birds chirping] 4 00:00:31,307 --> 00:00:36,036 [gentle music] 5 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,710 [gentle music continues] 6 00:01:00,301 --> 00:01:07,032 ♪ We sing our hymn, amen. ♪ 7 00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:12,554 - Man, I love the energy. 8 00:01:12,555 --> 00:01:14,625 - When the vocals start to layer, 9 00:01:14,626 --> 00:01:17,422 particularly on that last chorus, I think that's like, 10 00:01:17,732 --> 00:01:20,976 - Those guys are the hit machine singer songwriters, 11 00:01:20,977 --> 00:01:22,909 Chris Tomlin and Ben Fielding. 12 00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:25,844 And that's not just any song they're working on. 13 00:01:27,017 --> 00:01:30,330 They're rearranging the oldest Christian hymn 14 00:01:30,331 --> 00:01:33,713 ever discovered, complete with a nearly 2000 year old 15 00:01:33,714 --> 00:01:35,578 lyric and melody. 16 00:01:35,785 --> 00:01:38,131 It's ancient, it's in Greek, 17 00:01:38,132 --> 00:01:41,203 and it's been buried in Egypt a long time. 18 00:01:41,204 --> 00:01:44,104 Our plan is to bring it back to life. 19 00:01:47,728 --> 00:01:51,041 [uplifting music] 20 00:01:56,461 --> 00:02:00,498 We're on a historical and musical journey 21 00:02:00,499 --> 00:02:04,640 from the sands of Egypt to America's music capital, 22 00:02:04,641 --> 00:02:09,163 from Australian creative spaces to English thinking spaces. 23 00:02:09,646 --> 00:02:12,476 With the help of people who know what they're talking about, 24 00:02:12,477 --> 00:02:16,756 we'll be exploring sacred songs and modern hits, 25 00:02:16,757 --> 00:02:20,000 ancient history and contemporary markets. 26 00:02:20,001 --> 00:02:22,831 We'll learn from time-honoured traditions 27 00:02:22,832 --> 00:02:24,696 and state of the art production. 28 00:02:25,352 --> 00:02:27,732 Our goal is to give back to the world 29 00:02:27,733 --> 00:02:32,358 a song the church hasn't sung for almost two millennia. 30 00:02:32,359 --> 00:02:35,500 This is The First Hymn project. 31 00:02:39,849 --> 00:02:41,505 My name's John Dickson. 32 00:02:41,506 --> 00:02:44,956 Now I'm a professor specialising in the history of Christianity. 33 00:02:44,957 --> 00:02:48,615 But before I was a nerd, I was a wannabe musician, 34 00:02:48,616 --> 00:02:51,687 touring and recording full-time with my best mates 35 00:02:51,688 --> 00:02:53,827 in a very 90s rock band. 36 00:02:53,828 --> 00:02:55,312 You don't need the details. 37 00:02:55,313 --> 00:02:57,728 All that to say, I have both an academic 38 00:02:57,729 --> 00:02:59,316 and a personal interest 39 00:02:59,317 --> 00:03:02,182 in seeing this ancient hymn resurrected. 40 00:03:03,631 --> 00:03:07,187 [Arabic music] 41 00:03:09,085 --> 00:03:11,811 Our story begins in one of the most 42 00:03:11,812 --> 00:03:14,124 ancient cities in the world. 43 00:03:14,470 --> 00:03:17,990 Cairo is the modern-day capital of Egypt. 44 00:03:18,301 --> 00:03:21,959 It was officially founded just a thousand years ago, 45 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,790 but at its edges are the ruins of Memphis, 46 00:03:25,791 --> 00:03:27,241 Egypt's ancient capital. 47 00:03:27,690 --> 00:03:31,348 That part of the city goes back 4,000 years 48 00:03:31,349 --> 00:03:34,214 to the days of the pharaohs. 49 00:03:35,698 --> 00:03:39,977 I love an old cafe and this one takes the cake. 50 00:03:39,978 --> 00:03:42,151 This is El-Fishawy in Cairo, 51 00:03:42,152 --> 00:03:46,536 and it's been managed by the same family since 1773. 52 00:03:46,847 --> 00:03:49,401 That's when America was still a British colony. 53 00:03:49,988 --> 00:03:53,509 It's a small reminder of just how old this country is. 54 00:03:55,545 --> 00:03:58,754 The region has been strategic for centuries, 55 00:03:58,755 --> 00:04:02,413 partly because it's at the juncture of the Nile Valley 56 00:04:02,414 --> 00:04:04,346 and the Nile Delta. 57 00:04:04,347 --> 00:04:06,624 That's upper Egypt in the south 58 00:04:06,625 --> 00:04:08,868 and lower Egypt in the north, 59 00:04:08,869 --> 00:04:10,835 where the mighty Nile River 60 00:04:10,836 --> 00:04:13,838 concludes its 4,000 mile journey 61 00:04:13,839 --> 00:04:15,289 at the Mediterranean Sea. 62 00:04:16,083 --> 00:04:20,189 People have flocked here for centuries, and they still do. 63 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:22,295 More than 20 million people 64 00:04:22,296 --> 00:04:24,677 live in the Cairo metro area today, 65 00:04:24,678 --> 00:04:28,751 making it the Middle East's demographic centre for Islam. 66 00:04:30,615 --> 00:04:34,307 This is the Great Mosque of Muhammad Ali Pasha, 67 00:04:34,308 --> 00:04:37,345 a governor appointed by the Ottoman Empire 68 00:04:37,346 --> 00:04:40,038 to rule Egypt in the early 19th century. 69 00:04:41,798 --> 00:04:46,285 It's also called the Alabaster Mosque, for obvious reasons. 70 00:04:46,286 --> 00:04:48,908 Egypt has a long and varied religious history, 71 00:04:48,909 --> 00:04:52,429 but nowadays 90% of the country is Muslim, 72 00:04:52,430 --> 00:04:54,501 100 million worshippers. 73 00:04:55,260 --> 00:04:58,055 But the country is also home to one of the oldest 74 00:04:58,056 --> 00:05:00,300 branches of Christianity. 75 00:05:00,783 --> 00:05:03,957 Only about 10% of Egyptians are Christians, 76 00:05:03,958 --> 00:05:07,583 and most of them belong to the very ancient Coptic Church. 77 00:05:09,723 --> 00:05:13,933 St Mark's Cathedral is named for St Mark the Evangelist, 78 00:05:13,934 --> 00:05:17,143 the author of the Gospel of Mark in the New Testament. 79 00:05:17,144 --> 00:05:20,906 He was a companion of both the Apostles Peter and Paul. 80 00:05:21,217 --> 00:05:25,876 Church tradition says Mark arrived in Alexandria from Rome 81 00:05:25,877 --> 00:05:29,880 around the year 60 during the reign of Emperor Nero, 82 00:05:29,881 --> 00:05:32,228 who was no fan of Christianity. 83 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:37,543 The oldest Christian school or university that we know of 84 00:05:37,544 --> 00:05:42,099 was established at least as early as the year 180. 85 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:46,068 We even know the names and still have some of the writings 86 00:05:46,069 --> 00:05:51,246 of the heads of this school; Pantanous, Clement and Origen. 87 00:05:51,247 --> 00:05:54,283 These were all highly trained philosophers 88 00:05:54,284 --> 00:05:55,802 who converted to Christianity, 89 00:05:55,803 --> 00:05:58,495 and in the face of staunch opposition 90 00:05:58,496 --> 00:06:00,048 from Roman authorities, 91 00:06:00,049 --> 00:06:02,015 tried to demonstrate that Jesus Christ 92 00:06:02,016 --> 00:06:04,190 was the fulfilment of everything 93 00:06:04,191 --> 00:06:07,158 Greco-Roman culture was longing for. 94 00:06:07,159 --> 00:06:09,645 They had mixed success. 95 00:06:11,371 --> 00:06:13,302 Roman authorities found Christians in 96 00:06:13,303 --> 00:06:15,132 this period really annoying, 97 00:06:15,133 --> 00:06:18,618 not just because Christianity was rapidly expanding, 98 00:06:18,619 --> 00:06:21,207 but because Christians refused to worship 99 00:06:21,208 --> 00:06:23,347 the local Greek and Roman gods, 100 00:06:23,348 --> 00:06:25,107 and so they were seen as culturally 101 00:06:25,108 --> 00:06:27,455 subversive, even disloyal. 102 00:06:27,456 --> 00:06:30,319 And sometimes this annoyance spilled over 103 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,218 into actual violence. 104 00:06:32,219 --> 00:06:35,186 We know of one major riot here in Egypt 105 00:06:35,187 --> 00:06:39,398 that resulted in the clubbing to death of many Christians, 106 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:42,297 including the local bishop named George. 107 00:06:42,298 --> 00:06:44,817 They grabbed George out of his church, 108 00:06:44,818 --> 00:06:48,061 strapped him to a camel and beat him to a pulp. 109 00:06:48,062 --> 00:06:52,101 And then they set him on fire, along with the camel. 110 00:06:53,930 --> 00:06:58,071 Stories of early Christian persecution and martyrdom 111 00:06:58,072 --> 00:07:00,453 have sometimes been exaggerated, 112 00:07:00,454 --> 00:07:04,250 but all historians agree things reached a fever pitch 113 00:07:04,251 --> 00:07:07,460 between Emperor Decius in the year 250 114 00:07:07,461 --> 00:07:11,016 and Emperor Diocletian in 303. 115 00:07:12,121 --> 00:07:14,916 Many Christians, both leaders and laypeople, 116 00:07:14,917 --> 00:07:19,783 were executed in this period, including here in Egypt. 117 00:07:19,784 --> 00:07:23,787 One of Emperor Diocletian's decrees targeted what he thought 118 00:07:23,788 --> 00:07:27,307 was the key to Christian growth: their writings, 119 00:07:27,308 --> 00:07:29,413 "All Christian books", he said, 120 00:07:29,414 --> 00:07:32,555 "were to be seized and destroyed". 121 00:07:33,211 --> 00:07:35,902 This is an ancient Christian codex, 122 00:07:35,903 --> 00:07:37,835 the precursor to the book. 123 00:07:37,836 --> 00:07:40,148 It's basically papyrus leaves cut to 124 00:07:40,149 --> 00:07:41,598 shape, sewn together, 125 00:07:41,599 --> 00:07:43,807 and then bound in something sturdy, like 126 00:07:43,808 --> 00:07:45,499 these leather book covers. 127 00:07:45,775 --> 00:07:48,363 The interesting thing is we know that Christians 128 00:07:48,364 --> 00:07:51,193 were the first to popularise the book form 129 00:07:51,194 --> 00:07:53,368 over the scrolls we normally associate 130 00:07:53,369 --> 00:07:54,611 with the ancient world. 131 00:07:54,612 --> 00:07:56,405 And the reason for this is that books 132 00:07:56,406 --> 00:08:00,168 were far more transportable than a box of scrolls. 133 00:08:00,169 --> 00:08:02,722 And one thing we know about Christians in this period, 134 00:08:02,723 --> 00:08:04,759 they were constantly on the move, 135 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,071 trying to transport their faith and their 136 00:08:07,072 --> 00:08:08,798 books to further lands. 137 00:08:10,179 --> 00:08:12,905 And on one piece of papyrus from this period, 138 00:08:12,906 --> 00:08:17,426 we have a Christian hymn, complete with musical notation. 139 00:08:17,427 --> 00:08:19,532 We not only know what Christians were 140 00:08:19,533 --> 00:08:21,707 teaching in these early centuries, 141 00:08:21,708 --> 00:08:23,605 we know what they were singing. 142 00:08:23,606 --> 00:08:27,161 But for this, we have to travel south. 143 00:08:28,577 --> 00:08:33,513 [Arabic music] 144 00:08:43,281 --> 00:08:45,627 Our destination is Oxyrhynchus, 145 00:08:45,628 --> 00:08:48,043 about another 100 or so kilometres from here. 146 00:08:48,044 --> 00:08:50,459 And I don't deny, I'm pretty excited. 147 00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:53,014 For years, I've been reading about this place 148 00:08:53,015 --> 00:08:57,156 and the stuff they've found there, and now I get to go. 149 00:08:57,157 --> 00:09:00,400 It was a thriving metropolis in Roman times, 150 00:09:00,401 --> 00:09:04,059 but I'm preparing myself for nothing but sun-baked ruins 151 00:09:04,060 --> 00:09:05,786 and ancient rubbish dumps, 152 00:09:06,166 --> 00:09:07,581 which I still quite like. 153 00:09:08,064 --> 00:09:13,518 [dramatic music] 154 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,181 Oxyrhynchus has a long history, 155 00:09:22,182 --> 00:09:25,356 stretching back to the 20th Pharaonic dynasty 156 00:09:25,357 --> 00:09:29,257 of the New Kingdom period, roughly 1100 BC. 157 00:09:29,258 --> 00:09:32,778 The town was originally known as Per-Medjed 158 00:09:32,779 --> 00:09:35,919 At first, it was a kind of military station 159 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,199 designed to protect vital caravan routes. 160 00:09:54,352 --> 00:09:57,388 - [John] Dr. Esther Pons is the head of the 161 00:09:57,389 --> 00:09:59,563 Department of Egyptian Antiquities 162 00:09:59,564 --> 00:10:04,257 and the Near East at Spain's National Archaeological Museum. 163 00:10:04,258 --> 00:10:06,984 Archaeologically speaking, she's the boss here 164 00:10:06,985 --> 00:10:09,263 and a wonderful host. 165 00:10:10,023 --> 00:10:14,474 Alexander the Great conquered Egypt in 332 BC. 166 00:10:14,475 --> 00:10:16,753 It was a cultural turning point, 167 00:10:16,754 --> 00:10:19,756 transforming Egypt and cities like this one 168 00:10:19,757 --> 00:10:23,794 into thoroughly Hellenistic or Greek domains. 169 00:10:23,795 --> 00:10:27,695 Local Greek speakers call this place Oxyrhynchopolis, 170 00:10:27,696 --> 00:10:31,215 the city or polis of the sharp-nosed fish, 171 00:10:31,216 --> 00:10:32,561 the Oxyrhynchus. 172 00:10:32,562 --> 00:10:35,945 And you can just make out the little guy here. 173 00:10:36,636 --> 00:10:39,879 Now, locals actually worship this fish as a god, 174 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,054 and there are some bizarre ancient myths 175 00:10:42,055 --> 00:10:43,745 about what he got up to. 176 00:10:43,746 --> 00:10:46,127 But it's not exactly family-friendly, 177 00:10:46,128 --> 00:10:48,233 so I'll leave you to Google that. 178 00:10:52,479 --> 00:10:55,723 The original city went about two kilometres this way 179 00:10:55,724 --> 00:10:57,552 and another two kilometres that way. 180 00:10:57,553 --> 00:11:00,555 Over 50,000 people once lived here, 181 00:11:00,556 --> 00:11:04,111 making it the second-largest city in Egypt at the time. 182 00:11:05,009 --> 00:11:07,527 The population enjoyed a fusion of 183 00:11:07,528 --> 00:11:09,288 Greek language and learning, 184 00:11:09,289 --> 00:11:13,431 combined with Egyptian funeral rites and deities. 185 00:11:14,501 --> 00:11:16,467 Sometime in the second century, 186 00:11:16,468 --> 00:11:20,161 Christians arrived here with their strange notions, 187 00:11:20,162 --> 00:11:22,197 not only that there's just one god, 188 00:11:22,198 --> 00:11:25,718 but that this god had entered the world in a concrete way 189 00:11:25,719 --> 00:11:30,068 in the life of a man from Nazareth, 400 miles north. 190 00:11:31,518 --> 00:11:34,554 And it remains one of the mysteries of ancient history 191 00:11:34,555 --> 00:11:39,076 that Christians without any power or armies or wealth 192 00:11:39,077 --> 00:11:41,665 were able to persuade so many people 193 00:11:41,666 --> 00:11:44,012 to abandon the traditional gods, 194 00:11:44,013 --> 00:11:47,015 Serapis, Osiris, the long-nosed fish, 195 00:11:47,016 --> 00:11:49,225 and worship Jesus Christ. 196 00:12:15,458 --> 00:12:17,080 - [John] In the late Roman Empire, 197 00:12:17,081 --> 00:12:18,944 the so-called Byzantine period, 198 00:12:18,945 --> 00:12:21,670 a number of monasteries for monks and nuns 199 00:12:21,671 --> 00:12:23,880 were built outside the city walls, 200 00:12:23,881 --> 00:12:26,987 making Oxyrhynchus a significant Christian centre. 201 00:12:27,885 --> 00:12:31,922 All of that changed with the Muslim conquest of Egypt 202 00:12:31,923 --> 00:12:33,855 in the 640s AD. 203 00:12:33,856 --> 00:12:37,791 It brought to an end seven centuries of Roman rule. 204 00:12:37,998 --> 00:12:40,344 Oxyrhynchus began to shrink, 205 00:12:40,345 --> 00:12:44,004 and by the Middle Ages, it was little more than a ruin. 206 00:12:45,488 --> 00:12:49,284 The British conquered Egypt in 1882, 207 00:12:49,285 --> 00:12:51,804 partly motivated by protecting their interests 208 00:12:51,805 --> 00:12:54,462 in the shipping lanes of the Suez Canal. 209 00:12:54,463 --> 00:12:56,947 British control paved the way for British 210 00:12:56,948 --> 00:13:00,364 academics to research, some would say to plunder, 211 00:13:00,365 --> 00:13:02,919 Egypt's hidden treasures. 212 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,956 In 1897, two Oxford scholars, 213 00:13:05,957 --> 00:13:08,269 Bernard Grenfell and Arthur Hunt, 214 00:13:08,270 --> 00:13:10,478 decided to mount an expedition to the 215 00:13:10,479 --> 00:13:13,240 once great city of Oxyrhynchus. 216 00:13:14,690 --> 00:13:16,829 Grenfell and Hunt were particularly interested 217 00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:19,383 in finding papyri, the basic writing material 218 00:13:19,384 --> 00:13:21,006 of the Roman world. 219 00:13:21,007 --> 00:13:24,112 So, the locals brought them out here to the edge of town, 220 00:13:24,113 --> 00:13:25,562 to the rubbish dumps. 221 00:13:25,563 --> 00:13:28,013 Grenfell wasn't super impressed. 222 00:13:28,014 --> 00:13:29,600 In fact, he wrote in his diary, 223 00:13:29,601 --> 00:13:32,672 "My first impressions on examining the site 224 00:13:32,673 --> 00:13:34,295 were not very favourable. 225 00:13:34,296 --> 00:13:37,264 "The rubbish mounds were nothing but rubbish mounds." 226 00:13:37,575 --> 00:13:40,577 He soon realised, though, that he had chanced upon 227 00:13:40,578 --> 00:13:44,133 the greatest discovery of ancient texts ever. 228 00:13:44,547 --> 00:13:48,412 Those first few scraps of papyrus quickly revealed 229 00:13:48,413 --> 00:13:51,622 an entire discarded ancient archive. 230 00:13:51,623 --> 00:13:56,386 "The flow of papyri soon became a torrent," Grenfell wrote. 231 00:13:56,387 --> 00:13:59,147 "Merely turning up the soil with one's boot 232 00:13:59,148 --> 00:14:01,806 would frequently disclose a layer". 233 00:14:03,704 --> 00:14:09,054 [dramatic music] 234 00:14:09,055 --> 00:14:10,919 Hey, Siri, what's the high today? 235 00:14:12,196 --> 00:14:16,268 "The high temperature will be 36 degrees Celsius today". 236 00:14:16,269 --> 00:14:17,890 And it feels it. 237 00:14:17,891 --> 00:14:20,859 This was the key to the discovery of these documents. 238 00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:25,208 Paper dies in the damp, but it thrives in the 239 00:14:25,209 --> 00:14:27,589 hot, dry conditions of Egypt. 240 00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:30,351 I'm no fan of 100 degrees Fahrenheit, 241 00:14:30,352 --> 00:14:32,699 but papyrus loves it. 242 00:14:33,389 --> 00:14:35,908 Grenfell and Hunt employed locals to 243 00:14:35,909 --> 00:14:37,668 carefully store the papyri, 244 00:14:37,669 --> 00:14:41,638 but they could hardly keep pace with the rate of discovery, 245 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:43,883 and they were running out of containers. 246 00:14:44,366 --> 00:14:46,919 In the end, they uncovered more than 247 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,577 half a million scraps of papyri, 248 00:14:49,578 --> 00:14:53,547 spanning the Greek, Roman and Islamic periods. 249 00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:59,207 This historical gold mine included letters, contracts, 250 00:14:59,208 --> 00:15:02,762 official records, plays, poetry and philosophy, 251 00:15:02,763 --> 00:15:05,904 as well as pages of the New Testament. 252 00:15:05,905 --> 00:15:08,354 It's impossible to overstate 253 00:15:08,355 --> 00:15:10,632 how much the Oxyrhynchus papyri 254 00:15:10,633 --> 00:15:13,498 have helped us understand the ancient world. 255 00:15:13,843 --> 00:15:17,087 Our focus is on just one scrap of papyrus, 256 00:15:17,088 --> 00:15:19,572 uncovered here in 1918. 257 00:15:19,573 --> 00:15:21,057 It's not even a page, really, 258 00:15:21,058 --> 00:15:23,576 it's just 30 centimetres by 5 centimetres, 259 00:15:23,577 --> 00:15:26,407 but it provides amazing early evidence, 260 00:15:26,408 --> 00:15:29,444 not only of the beliefs and spread of Christianity, 261 00:15:29,445 --> 00:15:31,585 but also of its music. 262 00:15:32,345 --> 00:15:34,553 Oxyrhynchus is the home of what we've 263 00:15:34,554 --> 00:15:36,762 come to call The First Hymn, 264 00:15:36,763 --> 00:15:40,352 the earliest Christian song with musical notation. 265 00:15:40,353 --> 00:15:43,355 Its Greek words and melody sound strange 266 00:15:43,356 --> 00:15:46,047 to our 21st century ear, 267 00:15:46,048 --> 00:15:47,600 but the song must have been popular 268 00:15:47,601 --> 00:15:50,639 amongst Egypt's early Christians. 269 00:15:51,329 --> 00:15:53,227 It might have been sung in people's 270 00:15:53,228 --> 00:15:56,333 houses, in marketplaces and, of course, 271 00:15:56,334 --> 00:15:59,267 in churches like this giant basilica, 272 00:15:59,268 --> 00:16:01,615 built to hold 1,000 people. 273 00:16:02,547 --> 00:16:06,792 The song hasn't been heard around here for many centuries. 274 00:16:06,793 --> 00:16:09,554 I thought I'd have a go at bringing it home. 275 00:16:11,004 --> 00:16:22,395 [Singing in Ancient Greek] 276 00:16:24,259 --> 00:16:26,122 At the time, Grenfell and Hunt 277 00:16:26,123 --> 00:16:28,710 had little idea of what they'd uncovered. 278 00:16:28,711 --> 00:16:32,473 The fragment was catalogued - number 1786 - 279 00:16:32,474 --> 00:16:35,234 packed in a biscuit tin alongside other papyri 280 00:16:35,235 --> 00:16:39,619 and sent here to the University of Oxford. 281 00:16:41,069 --> 00:16:43,277 The University of Oxford is one of the 282 00:16:43,278 --> 00:16:45,037 oldest in the world. 283 00:16:45,038 --> 00:16:47,281 It's been educating English speakers 284 00:16:47,282 --> 00:16:49,283 and Latin speakers before that 285 00:16:49,284 --> 00:16:51,424 for over 900 years. 286 00:16:52,908 --> 00:16:56,221 These lovely doorways were once the actual entrances 287 00:16:56,222 --> 00:16:58,706 to the various subjects taught here at Oxford. 288 00:16:58,707 --> 00:17:01,640 This, of course, is the School of Logic. 289 00:17:01,641 --> 00:17:06,921 And next door is the School of Astronomy and Rhetoric, 290 00:17:06,922 --> 00:17:10,062 which is a very weird combination of subjects. 291 00:17:10,063 --> 00:17:11,822 I love this guy's face right here. 292 00:17:11,823 --> 00:17:15,136 This is now the Bodleian gift shop next time you're here. 293 00:17:15,137 --> 00:17:19,968 And over here is the Schola Musicae, the School of Music. 294 00:17:19,969 --> 00:17:23,524 Now, Oxford's medieval setting is our doorway 295 00:17:23,525 --> 00:17:25,733 to something much, much older, 296 00:17:25,734 --> 00:17:30,049 to the first Christian hymn with musical notation. 297 00:17:30,290 --> 00:17:32,671 Scholars call it Papyrus Oxyrhynchus, 298 00:17:32,672 --> 00:17:37,401 catalog number 1786, P. Oxy 1786. 299 00:17:40,507 --> 00:17:43,716 Along with literally thousands of other bits of paper 300 00:17:43,717 --> 00:17:47,341 from the ancient world, our P. Oxy 1786 301 00:17:47,342 --> 00:17:50,171 is stored safely here at the Sackler Library, 302 00:17:50,172 --> 00:17:53,692 or more precisely, up in the papyrology rooms of Level 1. 303 00:17:53,693 --> 00:17:55,521 This is home to the world's most 304 00:17:55,522 --> 00:17:58,594 extensive collection of ancient Greek papyri. 305 00:17:59,699 --> 00:18:01,700 Although they recently changed the name 306 00:18:01,701 --> 00:18:06,394 to the Bodleian Art, Archaeology and Ancient World Library, 307 00:18:06,395 --> 00:18:08,327 because of the billionaire Sackler 308 00:18:08,328 --> 00:18:12,332 family's association with the opioid crisis in the US. 309 00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:15,369 The official custodian of the papyri 310 00:18:15,370 --> 00:18:17,819 is the Egypt Exploration Society, 311 00:18:17,820 --> 00:18:21,790 and their collections manager is Dr. Stephanie Boonstra. 312 00:18:22,618 --> 00:18:27,415 - The fragments range from about the late first century BC 313 00:18:27,416 --> 00:18:29,452 up until the seventh century AD, 314 00:18:29,453 --> 00:18:32,869 and we have information about ancient cities, 315 00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:34,664 about the people, what they were doing, 316 00:18:34,665 --> 00:18:36,838 but also of things like their religion, 317 00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:39,565 and it was a monastic city, 318 00:18:39,566 --> 00:18:43,122 so we have this Christian evidence as well. 319 00:18:43,329 --> 00:18:44,708 - And I think I recognize this one. 320 00:18:44,709 --> 00:18:47,125 - Yes, yeah, this is one that you'll probably know 321 00:18:47,126 --> 00:18:48,886 a lot about as well as your viewers. 322 00:18:49,335 --> 00:18:52,716 So here we have a few fragments of 323 00:18:52,717 --> 00:18:54,028 New Testament fragments. 324 00:18:54,029 --> 00:18:58,309 So here we have one that was most recently published, 325 00:18:58,551 --> 00:19:01,380 and it's a fragment from the Gospel of Mark. 326 00:19:01,381 --> 00:19:03,279 - It's the opening paragraph, isn't it? 327 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,521 - Yes, yeah, it's Mark 1. 328 00:19:04,522 --> 00:19:06,109 - Pretty much a couple of paragraphs. 329 00:19:06,110 --> 00:19:09,216 - Yeah, and so it's gotten a lot of buzz in recent years. 330 00:19:09,217 --> 00:19:13,323 It's one of the earliest examples of a fragment 331 00:19:13,324 --> 00:19:15,119 from the Gospel of Mark. 332 00:19:16,293 --> 00:19:18,294 - [John] The New Testament texts themselves, 333 00:19:18,295 --> 00:19:20,710 some of which are among the Oxyrhynchus papyri, 334 00:19:20,711 --> 00:19:23,885 regularly refer to the singing of songs. 335 00:19:23,886 --> 00:19:27,993 The Gospels say Jesus and the Apostles sang hymns together. 336 00:19:27,994 --> 00:19:29,753 The letters of Paul to the churches 337 00:19:29,754 --> 00:19:33,344 urged the faithful to keep singing and making music. 338 00:19:33,758 --> 00:19:38,210 The words of P. Oxy 1786 provide a unique window 339 00:19:38,211 --> 00:19:41,248 into the content of ancient Christian singing. 340 00:19:41,249 --> 00:19:43,836 And it wasn't all happy clappy. 341 00:19:43,837 --> 00:19:46,874 This song is actually a bit nerdy. 342 00:19:46,875 --> 00:19:48,359 And what do we sing? 343 00:19:49,222 --> 00:19:51,983 Patera, Huion, Hagion, Pneuma, 344 00:19:52,501 --> 00:19:55,677 Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 345 00:19:55,884 --> 00:19:59,542 Now, scholars often say this line is of some interest, 346 00:19:59,543 --> 00:20:02,510 and what they mean is it's amazing. 347 00:20:02,511 --> 00:20:05,582 This is the doctrine of the Trinity, 348 00:20:05,583 --> 00:20:08,136 the Christian idea that the one God 349 00:20:08,137 --> 00:20:11,381 is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 350 00:20:11,382 --> 00:20:13,211 And you sometimes hear that that idea 351 00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:15,592 was only invented much later, 352 00:20:15,593 --> 00:20:19,734 say in 325 at the Council of Nicaea 353 00:20:19,735 --> 00:20:22,220 when Emperor Constantine forced this 354 00:20:22,221 --> 00:20:23,842 doctrine on the church. 355 00:20:23,843 --> 00:20:28,330 But the thing is, here's the idea in a song 356 00:20:28,779 --> 00:20:30,712 from the previous century. 357 00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:37,235 - [Rev. Sonderegger] Eventually as the church received 358 00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:39,824 Israel's witness and Scripture, 359 00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:46,209 and reflected profoundly on the significance 360 00:20:46,210 --> 00:20:49,488 of Jesus Christ, his dying and rising, 361 00:20:49,489 --> 00:20:51,525 his presence among us, 362 00:20:51,526 --> 00:20:54,770 and the Spirit poured out on all flesh, 363 00:20:55,461 --> 00:20:58,428 they came to see that this 364 00:20:58,429 --> 00:21:02,777 was the life of Trinity 365 00:21:02,778 --> 00:21:04,814 turned toward the world. 366 00:21:04,815 --> 00:21:07,230 - [John] Katherine Sonderegger was educated 367 00:21:07,231 --> 00:21:09,715 at Yale and Brown Universities, 368 00:21:09,716 --> 00:21:12,408 and is now one of the most celebrated names 369 00:21:12,409 --> 00:21:16,101 in that strange field known as Theology. 370 00:21:16,102 --> 00:21:17,861 Okay, let's talk about Trinity. 371 00:21:17,862 --> 00:21:22,003 Can you give me the dummies guide to what is the Trinity? 372 00:21:22,004 --> 00:21:27,112 - Trinity is eternally Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, 373 00:21:27,113 --> 00:21:29,771 even if there were no cosmos, 374 00:21:30,185 --> 00:21:32,462 a God would be the living God 375 00:21:32,463 --> 00:21:35,534 who offers himself in the Word 376 00:21:35,535 --> 00:21:38,917 and receives that Word back in the Spirit. 377 00:21:38,918 --> 00:21:43,267 That would be true of God's life regardless. 378 00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:46,200 - Wouldn't it have been simpler for the early Christians 379 00:21:46,201 --> 00:21:48,720 just to go down the Greco-Roman path 380 00:21:48,721 --> 00:21:52,379 and say that the Trinity is really three different gods, 381 00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:55,485 or maybe three manifestations of the one God? 382 00:21:55,486 --> 00:21:58,937 - It would be possible to look at the relation 383 00:21:58,938 --> 00:22:03,391 between the emperor and the junior emperors, 384 00:22:04,357 --> 00:22:09,257 and get an idea that there is a high God, the Father, 385 00:22:09,258 --> 00:22:14,055 and then these subordinate Caesars, 386 00:22:14,056 --> 00:22:16,403 but only a doctrine that 387 00:22:16,404 --> 00:22:19,406 saw all of these elements 388 00:22:19,407 --> 00:22:24,859 as one and as fully God actually captured 389 00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:28,830 what it means to say God is the living God. 390 00:22:30,556 --> 00:22:32,280 - [Dr. Mccaulley] The New Testament didn't begin 391 00:22:32,281 --> 00:22:34,352 with an abstract concept of deity, 392 00:22:34,353 --> 00:22:35,939 or even the Greco-Roman deity, 393 00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:37,355 and say Jesus is like that. 394 00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:38,286 What they actually did 395 00:22:38,287 --> 00:22:39,702 is say Jesus was like 396 00:22:39,703 --> 00:22:40,911 the one God of Israel. 397 00:22:41,463 --> 00:22:44,396 - [John] Esau McCaulley says the first Jewish Christians 398 00:22:44,397 --> 00:22:47,261 didn't see Jesus as another God, 399 00:22:47,262 --> 00:22:51,473 but somehow as the God of Israel in person. 400 00:22:52,819 --> 00:22:58,306 - And so what you see then is not the Jewish Christians 401 00:22:58,307 --> 00:23:01,793 saying, "Oh, Jesus is like Zeus." 402 00:23:01,794 --> 00:23:05,590 They're saying that somehow within the one divine identity, 403 00:23:05,591 --> 00:23:08,420 you have the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 404 00:23:08,421 --> 00:23:09,835 I can give you an example. 405 00:23:09,836 --> 00:23:13,080 There's this passage in 1 Corinthians 8, verse 6, 406 00:23:13,081 --> 00:23:14,702 where it has the Shema. 407 00:23:14,703 --> 00:23:20,467 Shema is one of the most holy passages for the Israelites. 408 00:23:20,468 --> 00:23:22,814 "Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God is one." 409 00:23:22,815 --> 00:23:24,574 And you should worship the Lord your God only. 410 00:23:24,575 --> 00:23:26,611 And so, one God, that was it. 411 00:23:26,612 --> 00:23:28,854 But when Paul quotes it, he says, 412 00:23:28,855 --> 00:23:30,822 "You might have many gods, but for us, 413 00:23:30,823 --> 00:23:34,171 there's one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ." 414 00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:36,310 - [John] It's clear Christians were 415 00:23:36,311 --> 00:23:38,795 reflecting on the Trinity and singing about it 416 00:23:38,796 --> 00:23:41,419 long before the concepts were formalized in 417 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:43,663 the famous Nicene Creed. 418 00:23:44,112 --> 00:23:46,458 Here's how the hymn in part puts it, 419 00:23:46,459 --> 00:23:51,119 "Let all be silent, shining stars not sound, 420 00:23:51,395 --> 00:23:53,948 as we sing our hymn to the 421 00:23:53,949 --> 00:23:56,641 Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, 422 00:23:56,642 --> 00:24:01,232 the only giver of all good gifts. Amen." 423 00:24:01,854 --> 00:24:05,615 But what adds to the interest in P.Oxy 1786 424 00:24:05,616 --> 00:24:08,446 is that it contains more than words. 425 00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:12,484 You can see these little squiggles above the words. 426 00:24:12,485 --> 00:24:15,556 That's ancient Greek musical notation. 427 00:24:15,557 --> 00:24:18,215 It tells us the melody of the hymn. 428 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,630 And what's so fun about this 429 00:24:20,631 --> 00:24:23,564 is that the tune isn't the stodgy stuff 430 00:24:23,565 --> 00:24:26,705 we often associate with chanting monks. 431 00:24:26,706 --> 00:24:28,293 It's pop music. 432 00:24:28,294 --> 00:24:30,675 It's the kind of melody you'd expect to hear 433 00:24:30,676 --> 00:24:34,541 at an ancient Greek pub or at some theater performance. 434 00:24:34,542 --> 00:24:37,716 Whoever composed this song was trying to take 435 00:24:37,717 --> 00:24:41,858 serious Christian ideas and give them to the masses. 436 00:24:41,859 --> 00:24:43,998 This is not just theology, 437 00:24:43,999 --> 00:24:45,794 it's public Christianity. 438 00:24:46,277 --> 00:24:51,524 [Singing in Ancient Greek] 439 00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:54,561 - [Prof. D'Angour] As far as we know, 440 00:24:54,562 --> 00:24:55,734 there was music everywhere, 441 00:24:55,735 --> 00:24:58,013 just as there is in today's world. 442 00:24:58,255 --> 00:25:02,397 The main musical fragments that have survived 443 00:25:03,087 --> 00:25:05,295 relate to such things 444 00:25:05,296 --> 00:25:08,022 as music in theater, 445 00:25:08,023 --> 00:25:09,749 so music of tragedy. 446 00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:14,304 There's something called a skolion, 447 00:25:14,305 --> 00:25:16,687 which is a drinking song 448 00:25:16,998 --> 00:25:21,140 with an epicurean theme, "Live Now Because We All Die." 449 00:25:22,106 --> 00:25:24,349 There's music from 450 00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:26,213 performances that might have taken place 451 00:25:26,214 --> 00:25:29,216 in large-scale open-air theaters, 452 00:25:29,217 --> 00:25:31,011 but also stuff that might have 453 00:25:31,012 --> 00:25:34,222 been sung in smaller venues. 454 00:25:34,912 --> 00:25:37,880 - [John] Armand D'Angour is a world authority 455 00:25:37,881 --> 00:25:41,470 on the music, text, and culture of ancient Greece. 456 00:25:42,057 --> 00:25:46,130 Now you've had a chance to look at our P.Oxy 1786. 457 00:25:46,579 --> 00:25:48,960 How does it compare melodically 458 00:25:48,961 --> 00:25:51,688 to other bits and pieces of music we've found? 459 00:25:53,206 --> 00:25:56,554 - Interestingly, I think it shows very clearly 460 00:25:56,555 --> 00:25:59,487 the influence of Greek musical tradition 461 00:25:59,488 --> 00:26:01,869 going back all the way to the earliest 462 00:26:01,870 --> 00:26:03,458 document that we have. 463 00:26:03,872 --> 00:26:06,840 And the Christian hymn 464 00:26:06,841 --> 00:26:09,532 is a remarkable discovery 465 00:26:09,533 --> 00:26:13,744 because it's the only Christian piece of music 466 00:26:14,158 --> 00:26:16,298 using the ancient pagan notation. 467 00:26:16,678 --> 00:26:20,405 More recently, scholars have recognized that 468 00:26:20,406 --> 00:26:23,581 it isn't really any different from that earlier music 469 00:26:23,582 --> 00:26:27,586 in terms of the way it uses the melodic structures. 470 00:26:29,139 --> 00:26:32,313 - [John] The writer of this first hymn seems to have had 471 00:26:32,314 --> 00:26:35,903 one eye on pagan, that's Greco-Roman, 472 00:26:35,904 --> 00:26:37,560 religion and culture. 473 00:26:37,561 --> 00:26:40,218 One of the lines contains not just a 474 00:26:40,219 --> 00:26:42,703 straightforward piece of Christian teaching, 475 00:26:42,704 --> 00:26:45,533 but what looks like a bold comparison 476 00:26:45,534 --> 00:26:48,503 between Greek gods and the Holy Trinity. 477 00:26:49,124 --> 00:26:51,298 My favourite bit is here at the end. 478 00:26:51,299 --> 00:26:54,473 We sort of lose the words over here, 479 00:26:54,474 --> 00:26:56,959 so it's a bit of guesswork knowing what was there. 480 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,134 And then we can just make out the top of the words 481 00:27:00,135 --> 00:27:03,621 to "the only giver of all good gifts", 482 00:27:03,622 --> 00:27:05,692 Panton Agathon. 483 00:27:05,693 --> 00:27:10,041 God is described as the great gift giver. 484 00:27:10,042 --> 00:27:12,768 And with that theme, the hymn ends in 485 00:27:12,769 --> 00:27:17,289 good Christian fashion with the words, "Amen, amen". 486 00:27:17,290 --> 00:27:20,017 Which is a way of saying, "we really believe this". 487 00:27:20,569 --> 00:27:24,814 Experts have pointed out the expression "giver of gifts" 488 00:27:24,815 --> 00:27:28,369 was a stock description of a god like Zeus, 489 00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:29,819 the chief of the gods whom 490 00:27:29,820 --> 00:27:31,891 the Romans called Jupiter. 491 00:27:32,167 --> 00:27:35,308 Our Christian hymn calls this into question. 492 00:27:35,550 --> 00:27:38,759 The one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit 493 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:44,489 is said to be the only giver of all good gifts. 494 00:27:44,490 --> 00:27:48,425 It's confident, even a little cheeky. 495 00:27:49,012 --> 00:27:50,460 Love it or hate it, 496 00:27:50,461 --> 00:27:52,911 Jews and Christians have always said 497 00:27:52,912 --> 00:27:58,469 there's one God and he's Lord of everywhere and everyone. 498 00:27:58,746 --> 00:28:03,682 P.Oxy 1786 is a musical rendition of this same idea. 499 00:28:06,512 --> 00:28:09,652 So we've set ourselves a challenge. 500 00:28:09,653 --> 00:28:12,172 As interesting as the history is, 501 00:28:12,173 --> 00:28:14,692 our hope is to go beyond the ancient, 502 00:28:14,693 --> 00:28:17,764 to see if we can replicate here and now 503 00:28:17,765 --> 00:28:20,732 what those early Christians were trying to achieve 504 00:28:20,733 --> 00:28:22,010 through this song. 505 00:28:22,252 --> 00:28:25,219 Well, if architecture is for admiring, 506 00:28:25,220 --> 00:28:27,946 food and wine for tasting, 507 00:28:27,947 --> 00:28:30,086 songs are for singing. 508 00:28:30,087 --> 00:28:34,435 We've talked to the ancient experts about P.Oxy 1786, 509 00:28:34,436 --> 00:28:37,335 but if we wanna resurrect this hymn for a new audience, 510 00:28:37,336 --> 00:28:39,647 we've gotta talk to a couple of my friends, 511 00:28:39,648 --> 00:28:42,271 some of the most accomplished Christian songwriters 512 00:28:42,272 --> 00:28:43,618 in the world today. 513 00:28:45,102 --> 00:28:47,449 [upbeat music] 514 00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:52,454 Our first stop is my hometown of Sydney. 515 00:28:53,490 --> 00:28:56,147 I managed to grab some time with friend 516 00:28:56,148 --> 00:28:58,012 and musician, Ben Fielding. 517 00:28:58,529 --> 00:29:01,324 Ben and his co-writer, Brooke Ligertwood, 518 00:29:01,325 --> 00:29:04,742 won a Grammy for their 2018 song 519 00:29:04,743 --> 00:29:06,502 What a Beautiful Name. 520 00:29:06,503 --> 00:29:09,885 If you've ventured into a church in the last few years, 521 00:29:09,886 --> 00:29:12,508 there's a pretty good chance you've heard it. 522 00:29:12,509 --> 00:29:16,719 Then there's the gold record making song, This I Believe, 523 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,377 where Ben took The Apostles' Creed, 524 00:29:19,378 --> 00:29:21,344 an ancient statement of Christian belief, 525 00:29:21,345 --> 00:29:23,864 and turned it into a cracking song. 526 00:29:23,865 --> 00:29:28,938 Last time I checked, it had more than 130 million plays 527 00:29:28,939 --> 00:29:30,423 just on Spotify. 528 00:29:31,666 --> 00:29:35,220 Ben didn't need much convincing to help us bring 529 00:29:35,221 --> 00:29:37,015 the first hymn back to life. 530 00:29:37,016 --> 00:29:38,568 I fired off the lyrics 531 00:29:38,569 --> 00:29:41,502 and some of my singing to inspire him. 532 00:29:41,503 --> 00:29:42,746 Hopefully. 533 00:29:43,091 --> 00:29:44,713 [happy greeting] 534 00:29:46,992 --> 00:29:49,545 It seems Ben was sold on the project 535 00:29:49,546 --> 00:29:51,686 without my powers of persuasion. 536 00:29:52,652 --> 00:29:54,793 - Mate, this is such an exciting project. 537 00:29:55,552 --> 00:29:57,485 Anybody that I mention it to, 538 00:29:58,210 --> 00:30:00,143 they're fascinated by this idea that, 539 00:30:00,695 --> 00:30:03,524 that firstly, the hymn's been discovered, 540 00:30:03,525 --> 00:30:06,182 and then the idea of bringing it back to life. 541 00:30:06,183 --> 00:30:08,219 I think, of course, everybody always says, 542 00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:09,807 "What happens if the song's no good?" 543 00:30:09,808 --> 00:30:12,465 I can't get away from that. That's every single person. 544 00:30:12,741 --> 00:30:14,432 But I think that there's still just something 545 00:30:14,433 --> 00:30:16,815 in the journey of bringing this back to life. 546 00:30:18,092 --> 00:30:19,886 - [John] Ben's been thinking his way 547 00:30:19,887 --> 00:30:21,473 through the original melody. 548 00:30:21,474 --> 00:30:24,856 He reckons songwriters, whether ancient or modern, 549 00:30:24,857 --> 00:30:26,238 face similar challenges. 550 00:30:27,239 --> 00:30:30,552 - [Ben] The melody range is quite narrow. 551 00:30:30,829 --> 00:30:34,072 Rhythmically, it's not too complicated or complex. 552 00:30:34,073 --> 00:30:35,660 You can imagine a lot of people. 553 00:30:35,661 --> 00:30:37,593 - What about the little trills over the Amen's, though? 554 00:30:37,594 --> 00:30:39,664 - Well, those are cool. - They are so cool. 555 00:30:39,665 --> 00:30:40,768 - Yeah. 556 00:30:40,769 --> 00:30:43,219 - But I imagine ancient congregations 557 00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:44,669 trying to pull that off, because you wouldn't 558 00:30:44,670 --> 00:30:47,327 have that kind of trill in a modern hymn. 559 00:30:47,328 --> 00:30:49,122 Have you ever put a trill like that? 560 00:30:49,123 --> 00:30:51,020 - I haven't. I know that there's some 561 00:30:51,021 --> 00:30:53,196 more elaborate melodies that, 562 00:30:53,713 --> 00:30:56,405 and sometimes you gotta be careful that you don't dumb down 563 00:30:56,406 --> 00:30:58,510 a melody too much, 564 00:30:58,511 --> 00:31:00,340 and you just assume no one can sing it, 565 00:31:00,341 --> 00:31:03,239 because I think if it's well-structured 566 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,519 and it is memorable, people go along to a 567 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,487 concert from their favorite artist 568 00:31:09,488 --> 00:31:12,214 and sing along to stuff that's quite complex. 569 00:31:12,215 --> 00:31:13,387 And I think if it's memorable, 570 00:31:13,388 --> 00:31:15,113 that you can get away with a lot. 571 00:31:15,114 --> 00:31:18,599 - [John] Thankfully, Ben's already brimming with ideas. 572 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,017 ♪ Let everything that has breath ♪ 573 00:31:22,018 --> 00:31:24,329 ♪ Come and praise Him ♪ 574 00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:26,159 ♪ Praise Him ♪ 575 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,541 ♪ Praise to the Father ♪ 576 00:31:29,542 --> 00:31:32,510 ♪ To the Son and the Spirit ♪ 577 00:31:32,511 --> 00:31:34,201 ♪ Let everything ♪ 578 00:31:34,202 --> 00:31:36,721 - And then you could kind of build off something like that. 579 00:31:36,722 --> 00:31:39,034 - [John] It often happens with writers, 580 00:31:39,035 --> 00:31:41,105 whether composers or authors, 581 00:31:41,106 --> 00:31:44,454 a passing thought suddenly leaps out. 582 00:31:45,006 --> 00:31:46,869 I'd love to find an Egyptian singer. 583 00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:48,422 - Yeah. 584 00:31:48,423 --> 00:31:50,528 - Can you imagine if we can find an Egyptian singer 585 00:31:50,529 --> 00:31:53,462 who can do, like maybe, a little, amen at 586 00:31:53,463 --> 00:31:54,981 different points through. 587 00:31:54,982 --> 00:31:56,396 It could be really haunting. 588 00:31:56,397 --> 00:31:59,124 - Well, and to get that trill sounding authentic. 589 00:31:59,814 --> 00:32:01,539 - [John] We'll come back to that idea. 590 00:32:01,540 --> 00:32:04,370 For now, we need a collaborator. 591 00:32:06,027 --> 00:32:07,201 [phone ringing] 592 00:32:07,891 --> 00:32:09,099 [phone ringing] 593 00:32:10,687 --> 00:32:12,205 Ben put me in touch with 594 00:32:12,206 --> 00:32:15,553 American singer-songwriter, Chris Tomlin. 595 00:32:15,554 --> 00:32:17,142 I was excited. 596 00:32:17,797 --> 00:32:21,766 Chris has sold over 12 million records, 597 00:32:21,767 --> 00:32:25,770 and he has over 7 billion streams to his name. 598 00:32:25,771 --> 00:32:29,670 He's a Grammy winner with over 30 top 10 hits. 599 00:32:29,671 --> 00:32:32,432 It's estimated that 30 million people 600 00:32:32,433 --> 00:32:35,711 sing Chris's music in churches every week. 601 00:32:35,712 --> 00:32:37,782 Time magazine described him as, 602 00:32:37,783 --> 00:32:41,924 "potentially the most often sung artist in the world". 603 00:32:41,925 --> 00:32:44,306 I love the idea that you might wanna be involved 604 00:32:44,307 --> 00:32:45,341 with this, Chris. 605 00:32:45,342 --> 00:32:47,620 I love it. - Oh yeah. 606 00:32:49,174 --> 00:32:52,590 - I mean, Ben, you know, I've known Ben a while, 607 00:32:52,591 --> 00:32:54,764 and I just, I really trust his writing, 608 00:32:54,765 --> 00:32:56,076 and I trust his heart. 609 00:32:56,077 --> 00:32:58,941 And when he mentioned your name, 610 00:32:58,942 --> 00:33:00,908 and then I remembered all the songs you've written, 611 00:33:00,909 --> 00:33:02,703 I thought, oh my goodness, 612 00:33:02,704 --> 00:33:04,912 this could be very, very special. 613 00:33:04,913 --> 00:33:07,708 - Yeah, what a moment. What an opportunity. 614 00:33:07,709 --> 00:33:09,469 - [laughing] - Just incredible. 615 00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:12,196 I am so honored to be brought into this. 616 00:33:12,197 --> 00:33:13,680 Thank you, Ben, for reaching out. 617 00:33:13,681 --> 00:33:17,339 Thank you, John, for saying, "okay, let's do this", 618 00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:20,756 because I love it. 619 00:33:20,757 --> 00:33:23,000 - If we can somehow, 620 00:33:23,001 --> 00:33:24,415 sorry, let me correct myself. 621 00:33:24,416 --> 00:33:29,834 If you guys can somehow bring a beautiful melody 622 00:33:29,835 --> 00:33:32,631 that honors this ancient melody, 623 00:33:33,149 --> 00:33:35,772 and honors, obviously, the words, 624 00:33:36,531 --> 00:33:39,465 you know, some anonymous theologian put together, 625 00:33:40,949 --> 00:33:44,711 what a gift this will be to the church to sing this again. 626 00:33:44,712 --> 00:33:46,678 - And that's kind of what we're trying to do, 627 00:33:46,679 --> 00:33:48,784 is go like, could the people of God today 628 00:33:48,785 --> 00:33:51,959 join the people of God back in the, you know, 629 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,547 the second, third century, 630 00:33:53,548 --> 00:33:57,344 in these really early formative stages of the church? 631 00:33:57,345 --> 00:33:59,382 Could we sing that same hymn? 632 00:33:59,865 --> 00:34:04,386 - [John] I'd already sent Chris an image of P. Oxy 1786, 633 00:34:04,387 --> 00:34:08,287 with my translation of the hymn. He had questions. 634 00:34:09,150 --> 00:34:11,358 - Is that the whole of the song, 635 00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:13,015 or is that just a piece that was found? 636 00:34:13,016 --> 00:34:15,397 - It's all we've got, that's all we've got, 637 00:34:15,398 --> 00:34:16,881 because, you know, 638 00:34:16,882 --> 00:34:19,332 I sent you a photo of the manuscript, right? 639 00:34:19,333 --> 00:34:22,438 That is literally all we've got. 640 00:34:22,439 --> 00:34:24,026 Yeah, so sadly, there's no more. 641 00:34:24,027 --> 00:34:26,581 I mean, in terms of songwriting, 642 00:34:27,237 --> 00:34:31,345 you guys have to honor these words, 643 00:34:32,070 --> 00:34:35,625 but come up with some other ones. 644 00:34:36,798 --> 00:34:40,284 We can't just slap an English translation 645 00:34:40,285 --> 00:34:42,009 onto an ancient Greek tune. 646 00:34:42,010 --> 00:34:44,426 With all due respect to the original composer, 647 00:34:44,427 --> 00:34:47,740 the melody is a little weird to the modern ear. 648 00:34:48,051 --> 00:34:50,329 We have to find a fresh way forward. 649 00:34:50,571 --> 00:34:53,090 - John, is your vision that 650 00:34:53,091 --> 00:34:56,852 we try to stay right there with that, 651 00:34:56,853 --> 00:34:59,682 so we're really singing like we were 1800 years ago, 652 00:34:59,683 --> 00:35:00,890 I don't know. 653 00:35:00,891 --> 00:35:04,826 - No way, no, I wanna hear a song that's like, 654 00:35:05,931 --> 00:35:09,072 the kind of anthemic song you both have written, 655 00:35:09,348 --> 00:35:12,937 that's got a pop sensibility 656 00:35:12,938 --> 00:35:16,321 with a hymnic gravitas. 657 00:35:16,528 --> 00:35:19,737 It's a balancing act, a creative puzzle, 658 00:35:19,738 --> 00:35:23,362 and we need both these musical brains to make it happen. 659 00:35:24,501 --> 00:35:26,330 - I'm really open to messing with whatever, 660 00:35:26,331 --> 00:35:27,952 like I'll send you what I've got, 661 00:35:27,953 --> 00:35:29,160 and then we can start again. 662 00:35:29,161 --> 00:35:30,437 Yeah, send me what you got. 663 00:35:30,438 --> 00:35:31,749 I just think there's anything in there. 664 00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:34,096 I mean, I was like looking around, 665 00:35:34,097 --> 00:35:36,029 I was kind of writing some things today, 666 00:35:36,030 --> 00:35:38,687 as I was thinking about this, just some thoughts down, 667 00:35:38,688 --> 00:35:40,896 so I look forward to like maybe hearing what you have 668 00:35:40,897 --> 00:35:44,451 and see if it is kind of matching what I was thinking. 669 00:35:44,452 --> 00:35:46,039 It'd be interesting. 670 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,353 I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. 671 00:35:48,594 --> 00:35:51,562 Ben, send that to me. I'm ready, I'm ready to go. 672 00:35:51,563 --> 00:35:52,528 - Cool. 673 00:35:52,529 --> 00:35:54,911 [dramatic music] 674 00:35:55,222 --> 00:35:58,638 - [John] Ben and Chris have their work cut out for them. 675 00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:02,125 We'll leave them to it. We have other puzzles to solve. 676 00:36:02,953 --> 00:36:05,059 [choir sings] 677 00:36:05,749 --> 00:36:08,303 Musically, the first hymn isn't what 678 00:36:08,304 --> 00:36:11,238 we've come to expect from sacred music. 679 00:36:12,273 --> 00:36:15,689 Christian hymns like this one have been sung 680 00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:18,313 for a mere 280 years. 681 00:36:18,314 --> 00:36:21,350 Do we know how far back Christians were singing 682 00:36:21,351 --> 00:36:22,973 and writing songs? 683 00:36:23,181 --> 00:36:24,319 - Well, that's probably one of 684 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,113 the easiest questions to answer 685 00:36:26,114 --> 00:36:28,461 because we actually have songs, 686 00:36:28,462 --> 00:36:30,497 to Jesus in the New Testament. 687 00:36:30,498 --> 00:36:34,294 We have Philippians chapter 2, verses 6-11, which is a hymn. 688 00:36:34,295 --> 00:36:37,021 There's another one in Colossians 1:15 - 20, 689 00:36:37,022 --> 00:36:38,747 another hymn to Jesus. 690 00:36:38,748 --> 00:36:41,405 And so the easiest way to answer that question is, 691 00:36:41,406 --> 00:36:44,511 we know there's a lot of hymns that the Christians sung 692 00:36:44,512 --> 00:36:46,203 because they're hymns in the Bible, 693 00:36:46,204 --> 00:36:49,585 the Christian that we have as a part of our ongoing record. 694 00:36:49,586 --> 00:36:51,449 - Sadly, the musical notation 695 00:36:51,450 --> 00:36:53,279 didn't also get passed down with the manuscript. 696 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,212 - Exactly. Anytime you have a poem 697 00:36:55,213 --> 00:36:56,765 or anything that's translated 698 00:36:56,766 --> 00:36:59,319 into English, some of the rhythm and the things 699 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,840 that mark it out as poetry and as music are lost. 700 00:37:02,841 --> 00:37:06,223 But it's pretty clear to anyone who takes a close look 701 00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:09,122 at those passages and maybe 1 Corinthians 13, 702 00:37:09,123 --> 00:37:11,780 it was poetic about love. 703 00:37:11,781 --> 00:37:14,092 You have this reality, 704 00:37:14,093 --> 00:37:16,647 the early Christians were creating art 705 00:37:16,648 --> 00:37:18,442 related to the person of Jesus in particular, 706 00:37:18,443 --> 00:37:20,513 and a praise and worship of him 707 00:37:20,514 --> 00:37:22,239 that speaks a lot about his divinity. 708 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:24,137 - The first Christians were all Jews, 709 00:37:24,138 --> 00:37:26,829 and we know Jews were monotheists. 710 00:37:26,830 --> 00:37:28,590 - They believed in just one God. - Yes 711 00:37:28,591 --> 00:37:32,179 - So my question is, were the Christians departing 712 00:37:32,180 --> 00:37:35,321 from their Jewish roots in saying that 713 00:37:35,322 --> 00:37:37,668 Jesus was somehow also God? 714 00:37:37,669 --> 00:37:39,808 - Well, I don't think so. One of the things that 715 00:37:39,809 --> 00:37:41,741 often you can discover in a text 716 00:37:41,742 --> 00:37:44,020 are the things that people fought about. 717 00:37:44,296 --> 00:37:46,573 And so you can tell by reading the text of 718 00:37:46,574 --> 00:37:49,266 the New Testament, there's a lot of fights about the law. 719 00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:51,165 Christians were trying to figure out, 720 00:37:51,372 --> 00:37:53,615 should I keep the Torah or should I not keep the Torah? 721 00:37:53,616 --> 00:37:57,481 There was a lot of fights about the place of the Gentiles, 722 00:37:57,482 --> 00:37:59,241 how the Gentiles and Jews lived together. 723 00:37:59,242 --> 00:38:02,106 There's a lot of fights, a lot of discussion about ethics, 724 00:38:02,107 --> 00:38:03,556 how do we live together as Christians? 725 00:38:03,557 --> 00:38:05,351 You know what you don't see them fighting about 726 00:38:05,352 --> 00:38:07,870 a lot in the New Testament? The divinity of Jesus. 727 00:38:07,871 --> 00:38:09,976 It actually seemed to be something that, in other words, 728 00:38:09,977 --> 00:38:13,843 you never hear Paul having to argue Jesus is actually divine. 729 00:38:14,188 --> 00:38:17,328 He usually assumes it for most cases throughout his letters. 730 00:38:17,329 --> 00:38:19,468 You see the exact same thing by the time you get 731 00:38:19,469 --> 00:38:21,470 to the Gospel of John, they're not fighting about it. 732 00:38:21,471 --> 00:38:23,507 You see it narrated in the synoptics. 733 00:38:23,508 --> 00:38:27,476 And so it seems to be the case that pretty early on, 734 00:38:27,477 --> 00:38:30,099 the Christians began to think about Jesus 735 00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:32,240 and the Spirit as divine. 736 00:38:32,758 --> 00:38:36,209 - [John] So it shouldn't surprise us that the Christians 737 00:38:36,210 --> 00:38:40,420 behind P. Oxy 1786 would sing about God 738 00:38:40,421 --> 00:38:43,389 as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 739 00:38:43,390 --> 00:38:47,082 It seems from the beginning, the most important ideas 740 00:38:47,083 --> 00:38:51,017 weren't just proclaimed and written down, they were sung. 741 00:38:51,018 --> 00:38:52,743 [choir singing] 742 00:38:52,744 --> 00:38:55,918 Our modern idea of the Christian hymn has more to do 743 00:38:55,919 --> 00:39:00,371 with early modern Europe than the ancient Roman Empire. 744 00:39:00,372 --> 00:39:04,271 During the 16th century, the so-called Protestants, 745 00:39:04,272 --> 00:39:06,688 who got their name from protesting what they saw 746 00:39:06,689 --> 00:39:11,107 as certain church excesses, split from the Catholic church. 747 00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:14,834 Whatever else we might make of the tumultuous events 748 00:39:14,835 --> 00:39:16,629 of this Reformation period, 749 00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:19,218 it resulted in a lot of new songs. 750 00:39:19,874 --> 00:39:22,359 Some groups, and I won't name names, 751 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,431 said we should only sing the very words of scripture, 752 00:39:25,432 --> 00:39:28,330 particularly the Old Testament book of Psalms, 753 00:39:28,331 --> 00:39:31,575 which was kind of the ancient Israelite songbook. 754 00:39:31,576 --> 00:39:36,338 Anything else they said was unbiblical and unacceptable. 755 00:39:36,339 --> 00:39:39,617 Other groups were a little more relaxed and creative. 756 00:39:39,618 --> 00:39:42,137 They said, so long as our words reflect 757 00:39:42,138 --> 00:39:43,897 the general truth of the Bible, 758 00:39:43,898 --> 00:39:48,385 we're free to explore the joys of melody and creativity. 759 00:39:48,386 --> 00:39:51,940 And the result was an explosion of Christian hymns. 760 00:39:51,941 --> 00:39:54,598 [choir singing] 761 00:39:54,599 --> 00:39:57,428 - [Dr. Noll] Wherever the Christian faith is gone, 762 00:39:57,429 --> 00:39:58,982 people are singing. 763 00:39:59,293 --> 00:40:00,983 There's an organization called 764 00:40:00,984 --> 00:40:03,608 Wycliffe Bible Translators 765 00:40:03,884 --> 00:40:06,506 that has emphasized 766 00:40:06,507 --> 00:40:08,025 in recent years, 767 00:40:08,026 --> 00:40:10,993 ethno-musicology, and have found that 768 00:40:10,994 --> 00:40:14,341 when the Bible is translated into a new language 769 00:40:14,342 --> 00:40:16,792 that perhaps it had not even been written before, 770 00:40:16,793 --> 00:40:21,348 there is some interest, some enthusiasm, some excitement. 771 00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:24,697 But when that same text, the Bible translated 772 00:40:24,698 --> 00:40:27,148 into a new language, is set to music, 773 00:40:27,632 --> 00:40:31,428 there is much greater resonance and much deeper appreciation. 774 00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:34,361 And that worldwide phenomenon has been true in the West. 775 00:40:34,362 --> 00:40:37,951 So Western Christian history is at the same time 776 00:40:37,952 --> 00:40:42,129 a history of music and a history of hymnody. 777 00:40:42,750 --> 00:40:46,822 - There's such a back catalog of hymns through the centuries. 778 00:40:46,823 --> 00:40:48,135 Do we need any more? 779 00:40:48,446 --> 00:40:52,726 The answer is definitely yes, with a couple of qualifications. 780 00:40:53,243 --> 00:40:56,556 Hymns are designed to express truths, 781 00:40:56,557 --> 00:41:00,387 but also to ground those truths in emotions, 782 00:41:00,388 --> 00:41:02,286 to make them memorable. 783 00:41:02,287 --> 00:41:05,392 If there are not new hymns being written 784 00:41:05,393 --> 00:41:10,088 that reflect the needs, the desires, the outlook, 785 00:41:10,537 --> 00:41:12,745 the standpoint of the present, then the churches 786 00:41:12,746 --> 00:41:15,368 will be antiquarian and will have nothing 787 00:41:15,369 --> 00:41:18,165 to say to the world around them. 788 00:41:20,443 --> 00:41:23,032 - [John] Chris and Ben have been hard at work 789 00:41:23,308 --> 00:41:25,551 creating a new first hymn 790 00:41:25,552 --> 00:41:27,692 from the building blocks of the original. 791 00:41:29,901 --> 00:41:31,902 From these small beginnings, 792 00:41:31,903 --> 00:41:35,595 Chris and Ben went into their own creative wonderland. 793 00:41:35,596 --> 00:41:38,426 [music playing] 794 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,365 Meanwhile, we've come to Chicago 795 00:41:47,366 --> 00:41:50,023 to talk to someone I've admired ever since 796 00:41:50,024 --> 00:41:53,511 I first came across P. Oxy 1786. 797 00:41:54,753 --> 00:41:58,722 - The first hymn uses a kind of music 798 00:41:58,723 --> 00:42:02,104 that is very familiar to Westerners. 799 00:42:02,105 --> 00:42:03,934 It's diatonic music. 800 00:42:03,935 --> 00:42:06,971 And all that means is it's made out of the whole steps 801 00:42:06,972 --> 00:42:09,940 and the half steps that our music is made of. 802 00:42:09,941 --> 00:42:13,357 When you go to a piano, if you play keys on the piano 803 00:42:13,358 --> 00:42:16,740 in a row, you're playing whole steps and half steps. 804 00:42:16,741 --> 00:42:20,020 And our scales are made out of combinations of those. 805 00:42:20,538 --> 00:42:23,988 - [John] Charles Cosgrove is a kind of triple threat 806 00:42:23,989 --> 00:42:26,025 of classical education, 807 00:42:26,026 --> 00:42:29,754 expert linguist, historian, and musician. 808 00:42:30,548 --> 00:42:36,381 And he literally wrote the book on P. Oxy 1786. 809 00:42:37,175 --> 00:42:39,383 Perhaps strangely to the modern ear, 810 00:42:39,384 --> 00:42:41,592 the original lyrics of the first hymn 811 00:42:41,593 --> 00:42:45,045 tell all creation to be silent. 812 00:42:46,322 --> 00:42:50,739 - The beginning of this is the Greek cultic concern 813 00:42:50,740 --> 00:42:54,709 that when a cultic act was being performed, 814 00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:58,678 someone might say an inauspicious word 815 00:42:58,679 --> 00:43:00,507 that offended the god. 816 00:43:00,508 --> 00:43:03,200 And so there would be a call to silence 817 00:43:03,201 --> 00:43:04,823 or to watch your tongue. 818 00:43:05,168 --> 00:43:08,481 And then that call to silence would start the ritual. 819 00:43:08,482 --> 00:43:11,553 So silence falls, and then the ritual could begin 820 00:43:11,554 --> 00:43:14,798 with prayers and maybe a hymn and so forth. 821 00:43:14,799 --> 00:43:18,284 And in the hymns, it often announces 822 00:43:18,285 --> 00:43:20,804 that the god is approaching the temple. 823 00:43:20,805 --> 00:43:23,530 And so "Fall Silent as a God Approaches" 824 00:43:23,531 --> 00:43:27,225 and then the boys choir will sing the god. 825 00:43:27,777 --> 00:43:30,710 - [John] It seems our ancient Christian songwriter 826 00:43:30,711 --> 00:43:33,955 knew his Greco-Roman context well. 827 00:43:33,956 --> 00:43:37,337 Was he trying to make his pagan contemporaries comfortable 828 00:43:37,338 --> 00:43:40,169 before offering his controversial message? 829 00:43:40,756 --> 00:43:44,621 My favorite line is the last one, 830 00:43:44,622 --> 00:43:48,797 that God is "the only giver of all good gifts". 831 00:43:48,798 --> 00:43:53,215 Am I right that Zeus was actually 832 00:43:53,216 --> 00:43:55,701 said to be the giver of good gifts? 833 00:43:55,702 --> 00:43:58,427 But here the author of this song is saying that 834 00:43:58,428 --> 00:44:00,533 God is the only giver of all good gifts. 835 00:44:00,534 --> 00:44:02,259 So what is the songwriter doing? 836 00:44:02,260 --> 00:44:04,157 Is this just copying? 837 00:44:04,158 --> 00:44:05,262 Is he being critical? 838 00:44:05,263 --> 00:44:07,092 Is he evangelizing or what? 839 00:44:08,024 --> 00:44:11,164 - Yes, well, the hymnwriter is doing two things. 840 00:44:11,165 --> 00:44:15,617 One is to speak in a neoclassical way 841 00:44:15,618 --> 00:44:18,447 by taking up the language of a venerable tradition 842 00:44:18,448 --> 00:44:22,349 and dignifying the hymn and God with this language. 843 00:44:22,936 --> 00:44:26,490 At the same time, the hymnwriter is asserting 844 00:44:26,491 --> 00:44:30,667 that Christian idea that only one God 845 00:44:30,668 --> 00:44:34,292 gives all the good things, not many gods. 846 00:44:38,917 --> 00:44:41,781 - [John] Ben and Chris have been hard at work, 847 00:44:41,782 --> 00:44:45,336 and the first hymn project has made its way to Nashville. 848 00:44:45,337 --> 00:44:48,824 [upbeat music] 849 00:44:53,483 --> 00:44:57,003 Nashville is the mecca of Christian music 850 00:44:57,004 --> 00:44:58,453 to mix my religions. 851 00:44:58,454 --> 00:45:00,800 It's home to a baffling number of 852 00:45:00,801 --> 00:45:02,837 Christian music publishing houses, 853 00:45:02,838 --> 00:45:05,703 record labels and production companies. 854 00:45:06,773 --> 00:45:09,533 This is where big names in the Christian music industry, 855 00:45:09,534 --> 00:45:12,674 like Amy Grant, Michael W Smith, got their break. 856 00:45:12,675 --> 00:45:14,987 But it's also the home of more recent artists 857 00:45:14,988 --> 00:45:17,472 like Lauren Daigle and Anne Wilson. 858 00:45:17,473 --> 00:45:20,889 And Nashville is the home of the Dove Awards. 859 00:45:20,890 --> 00:45:22,408 They're not quite the Grammys, 860 00:45:22,409 --> 00:45:24,859 but in the US, a very big deal. 861 00:45:24,860 --> 00:45:27,309 So this feels like the perfect place to 862 00:45:27,310 --> 00:45:30,382 try and revive P. Oxy 1786. 863 00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:34,765 Chris Tomlin invited us to The Barn, 864 00:45:34,766 --> 00:45:38,390 his writing and rehearsal space just outside Nashville. 865 00:45:38,908 --> 00:45:42,462 The plan was to lock these guys in a room for a few days 866 00:45:42,463 --> 00:45:45,362 and let them hash out their best ideas 867 00:45:45,363 --> 00:45:47,192 for the new first hymn. 868 00:45:47,399 --> 00:45:50,022 - John! - I like this. Can I have one? 869 00:45:50,023 --> 00:45:51,748 Can I have one? - You can. 870 00:45:51,749 --> 00:45:53,059 - Hey, buddy. 871 00:45:53,060 --> 00:45:55,648 Wow, nice to meet you in the flesh. 872 00:45:55,649 --> 00:45:58,893 - I know. Good to see you. - And my friend. Wow. 873 00:45:58,894 --> 00:46:00,240 - Good to see you. 874 00:46:01,068 --> 00:46:02,448 - So this is happening? 875 00:46:02,449 --> 00:46:03,829 - Yeah, it's happening. - It's on. 876 00:46:03,830 --> 00:46:04,795 - Right. 877 00:46:04,796 --> 00:46:06,590 - [John] Some pleasantries, 878 00:46:06,591 --> 00:46:09,179 admiring their awesome writing space, 879 00:46:09,180 --> 00:46:11,182 and then it's down to business. 880 00:46:12,493 --> 00:46:14,081 How do you feel it's been going? 881 00:46:14,564 --> 00:46:15,772 - You should probably ask Chris. 882 00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:17,359 I feel like it's been going well, 883 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,085 but Chris might be seething in the background. 884 00:46:19,086 --> 00:46:23,296 - How did I get into this? - [all laughing] 885 00:46:23,297 --> 00:46:26,921 No, absolutely. It's been really beautiful. 886 00:46:26,922 --> 00:46:28,508 I love working with Ben. 887 00:46:28,509 --> 00:46:30,648 We've worked a little bit together over the years. 888 00:46:30,649 --> 00:46:33,030 And so, you know, going back and forth 889 00:46:33,031 --> 00:46:37,000 through from Australia to Tennessee, it's been wonderful. 890 00:46:37,001 --> 00:46:40,658 I really enjoyed it because we'll just how about this idea 891 00:46:40,659 --> 00:46:42,971 and send it and then I'll wait for him to 892 00:46:42,972 --> 00:46:44,559 wake up eight hours later. 893 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,078 And then by the time I'm asleep, 894 00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:47,700 I wake up and there's something else, 895 00:46:47,701 --> 00:46:49,288 you know, because the time changes. 896 00:46:49,289 --> 00:46:50,876 And so it's just been beautiful. 897 00:46:50,877 --> 00:46:53,568 OK. And then it gives it's been an interesting process 898 00:46:53,569 --> 00:46:55,363 because it just kind of gives me the day 899 00:46:55,364 --> 00:46:56,640 to think through it and then. 900 00:46:56,641 --> 00:46:58,400 - And to delete anything you don't like. 901 00:46:58,401 --> 00:47:00,299 I shouldn't have said that. - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 902 00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:02,853 And then I and then I send back to him 903 00:47:02,854 --> 00:47:08,480 and just us just talking about how do we really capture this 904 00:47:08,964 --> 00:47:11,103 in the best way we can. 905 00:47:11,104 --> 00:47:13,519 These beautiful, beautiful words and these ancient words. 906 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,142 And it's just such a I feel such responsibility too. 907 00:47:16,143 --> 00:47:17,592 - [John] Yeah - Massive. 908 00:47:17,593 --> 00:47:20,733 I mean, this there's this is not just another lyric. 909 00:47:20,734 --> 00:47:22,114 This is so special. 910 00:47:22,115 --> 00:47:24,426 And so I've really, really loved it. 911 00:47:24,427 --> 00:47:28,223 - What's the difficulty involved? 912 00:47:28,224 --> 00:47:30,743 Like, what have you found hard about it? 913 00:47:30,744 --> 00:47:33,297 - The only thing I've found hard is 914 00:47:33,298 --> 00:47:35,334 I just second guess myself. 915 00:47:35,335 --> 00:47:37,267 Is this good enough? Is this good enough? 916 00:47:37,268 --> 00:47:38,924 - [Ben] Yeah, that's a huge part of it. 917 00:47:38,925 --> 00:47:40,373 - You know, because it's your. 918 00:47:40,374 --> 00:47:42,375 - But is that the same with every song you write? 919 00:47:42,376 --> 00:47:44,274 - No, but this feels different because it's 920 00:47:44,275 --> 00:47:46,690 like you're just you're holding something that's 921 00:47:46,691 --> 00:47:47,725 it's already been. 922 00:47:47,726 --> 00:47:48,865 - Yeah. - Yeah. 923 00:47:48,866 --> 00:47:50,590 - It's already been sung. It's already been. 924 00:47:50,591 --> 00:47:53,179 And you're like, I know you want to. 925 00:47:53,180 --> 00:47:54,836 But obviously you want to bring it into 926 00:47:54,837 --> 00:47:58,288 this this time period and this this generation. 927 00:47:58,289 --> 00:48:01,705 And so you're like, am I do are we doing are we 928 00:48:01,706 --> 00:48:05,364 holding this the right way? - And the responsibility to 929 00:48:05,365 --> 00:48:07,538 try to capture what it was that 930 00:48:07,539 --> 00:48:11,094 unified the church way back then 931 00:48:11,095 --> 00:48:13,372 and to be able to take those elements, 932 00:48:13,373 --> 00:48:14,891 but try to modernize them 933 00:48:14,892 --> 00:48:17,617 and thinking about, well, what would a chorus be like? 934 00:48:17,618 --> 00:48:21,725 You know, would that ancient hymn have even had a chorus?. 935 00:48:21,726 --> 00:48:24,417 But I think in the modern version of the hymn, it would. 936 00:48:24,418 --> 00:48:27,524 So trying to work out where to put emphasis in the song. 937 00:48:27,525 --> 00:48:29,146 - Yes - All of that 938 00:48:29,147 --> 00:48:30,561 is just kind of like it - 939 00:48:30,562 --> 00:48:33,047 it's the challenge of taking something that was 940 00:48:33,048 --> 00:48:35,326 and making it something that is now. 941 00:48:35,602 --> 00:48:37,361 But I couldn't think of anybody I prefer to 942 00:48:37,362 --> 00:48:38,880 be doing this with than Chris. 943 00:48:38,881 --> 00:48:41,538 And when you got involved, just the enthusiasm that just 944 00:48:41,539 --> 00:48:44,368 got breathed into this was just fantastic. 945 00:48:44,369 --> 00:48:46,025 And so I was blown away. 946 00:48:46,026 --> 00:48:48,407 Chris is like firing messages. I'm trying to keep up 947 00:48:48,408 --> 00:48:50,824 and like fire back. 948 00:48:51,031 --> 00:48:52,859 It's like it was a really sweet kind of 949 00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:53,999 part of the process. 950 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,517 To kind of wake up and find like, 951 00:48:55,518 --> 00:48:57,588 you know, three or four different kind of verses 952 00:48:57,589 --> 00:49:00,695 and just keep that creativity going on the song. 953 00:49:00,696 --> 00:49:02,835 I think I think it's been really special. 954 00:49:02,836 --> 00:49:05,389 - [John] Now, you need to understand that I had 955 00:49:05,390 --> 00:49:08,910 no idea just how much these guys had been 956 00:49:08,911 --> 00:49:10,808 working together online. 957 00:49:10,809 --> 00:49:14,295 So nothing prepared me for what came next. 958 00:49:14,296 --> 00:49:17,505 The question is, how long 'till you think 959 00:49:17,506 --> 00:49:19,232 you've got a full song? 960 00:49:19,922 --> 00:49:21,405 - OK - A complete song. 961 00:49:21,406 --> 00:49:23,821 So we got we got a little bit of a surprise for you. 962 00:49:23,822 --> 00:49:25,754 And that is we think we finished the song. 963 00:49:25,755 --> 00:49:26,790 - What?! 964 00:49:26,791 --> 00:49:29,172 - [Chris] Yeah, it happened so fast. 965 00:49:29,173 --> 00:49:30,933 - How did that happen? 966 00:49:31,865 --> 00:49:34,625 - I don't know. I mean, I've written lots of songs, 967 00:49:34,626 --> 00:49:36,869 Ben's written lots of songs and rarely 968 00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:38,767 do they just... 969 00:49:38,768 --> 00:49:42,807 I think it was the lyric was so much there that 970 00:49:43,532 --> 00:49:45,705 just several times back and forth, 971 00:49:45,706 --> 00:49:47,535 like this feels really, really special. 972 00:49:47,536 --> 00:49:49,123 So we'd love to play it for you. 973 00:49:49,124 --> 00:49:49,986 - Oh, man. 974 00:49:49,987 --> 00:49:51,194 - Yeah. - OK. 975 00:49:51,195 --> 00:49:53,438 Now I've got shivers. 976 00:49:55,302 --> 00:49:59,168 ♪ Let all be silent ♪ 977 00:50:00,031 --> 00:50:02,999 ♪ The shining stars not sound ♪ 978 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,348 ♪ The rushing rivers still ♪ 979 00:50:07,211 --> 00:50:10,385 ♪ Let the mountains bow down ♪ 980 00:50:10,386 --> 00:50:13,631 ♪ In awe and wonder ♪ 981 00:50:15,115 --> 00:50:17,669 ♪ In reverence we come ♪ 982 00:50:17,911 --> 00:50:21,811 ♪ Who is worthy of all worship? ♪ 983 00:50:22,157 --> 00:50:26,092 ♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪ 984 00:50:26,747 --> 00:50:32,201 ♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪ 985 00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:40,001 ♪ All glory and praise forever ♪ 986 00:50:40,002 --> 00:50:48,630 ♪ To our God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ♪ 987 00:50:48,631 --> 00:50:49,805 ♪ Amen ♪ 988 00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:54,120 ♪ We sing, Amen ♪ 989 00:50:55,328 --> 00:50:58,055 ♪ Let all be silent ♪ 990 00:51:01,161 --> 00:51:04,094 - [John] I was stunned. 991 00:51:04,095 --> 00:51:07,546 Not just because they secretly finished the song, 992 00:51:07,547 --> 00:51:10,307 but because even in its raw form, 993 00:51:10,308 --> 00:51:12,344 I could hear how masterfully 994 00:51:12,345 --> 00:51:14,587 they'd revived the message 995 00:51:14,588 --> 00:51:17,626 and the mood of the first hymn. 996 00:51:22,976 --> 00:51:26,599 Wow, that is a gorgeous tune. 997 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,500 And the lyrics are virtually the definition of classic. 998 00:51:30,501 --> 00:51:32,985 But what makes a good worship song? 999 00:51:32,986 --> 00:51:35,436 A song designed to be sung by millions of people 1000 00:51:35,437 --> 00:51:37,645 around the world in church? 1001 00:51:37,646 --> 00:51:41,407 I suppose it has to be singable by regular humans. 1002 00:51:41,408 --> 00:51:44,376 And it also has to capture the head and the heart. 1003 00:51:44,377 --> 00:51:46,103 But what would I know? 1004 00:51:47,034 --> 00:51:49,484 I wanted to find out more about how this 1005 00:51:49,485 --> 00:51:53,903 mysterious world of contemporary Christian music works. 1006 00:51:54,318 --> 00:51:57,286 - [Mark] A great worship song is one that 1007 00:51:57,631 --> 00:52:00,426 articulates the heart of every worshipper 1008 00:52:00,427 --> 00:52:02,705 and directs their attention to God. 1009 00:52:02,912 --> 00:52:06,363 - [John] In 2024, Christian contemporary music 1010 00:52:06,364 --> 00:52:09,815 was the fourth fastest growing genre in the world, 1011 00:52:09,816 --> 00:52:13,370 up 60 percent over the last five years. 1012 00:52:13,371 --> 00:52:17,443 Labels like Capital CMG, Centricity, 1013 00:52:17,444 --> 00:52:19,549 Hillsong Worship and Integrity 1014 00:52:19,550 --> 00:52:22,345 preside over a market that now accounts 1015 00:52:22,346 --> 00:52:25,520 for more internet streams than jazz 1016 00:52:25,521 --> 00:52:27,972 and classical music combined. 1017 00:52:28,214 --> 00:52:29,938 - [Mark] The thing about a song is that, 1018 00:52:29,939 --> 00:52:32,941 especially one you enter into, it's one that you're 1019 00:52:32,942 --> 00:52:35,323 giving yourself over to and you're participating in 1020 00:52:35,324 --> 00:52:36,738 the song and what the song says. 1021 00:52:36,739 --> 00:52:40,017 And so the context of the song and in the 1022 00:52:40,018 --> 00:52:41,605 direction that it takes your heart 1023 00:52:41,606 --> 00:52:43,469 and your mind is really important. 1024 00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:45,851 And so to have an accurate theology, 1025 00:52:45,852 --> 00:52:49,234 a good understanding of who God is, of the work of 1026 00:52:49,235 --> 00:52:51,443 Jesus on the cross, all of these things, 1027 00:52:51,444 --> 00:52:53,617 they actually actually do matter. 1028 00:52:53,618 --> 00:52:56,206 - Do you think Christian music has anything 1029 00:52:56,207 --> 00:52:59,244 to offer people who don't know what to make of Christianity? 1030 00:52:59,245 --> 00:53:01,418 To the wider world? - It certainly should. 1031 00:53:01,419 --> 00:53:04,766 But part of the issue, the historic issue with 1032 00:53:04,767 --> 00:53:09,564 why it doesn't often is that it isn't always believable. 1033 00:53:09,565 --> 00:53:14,328 We only tend to write in like superlative and hyperbole 1034 00:53:14,329 --> 00:53:16,882 about God answering all of my 1035 00:53:16,883 --> 00:53:19,679 you know, answering all my prayer, meeting all my needs. 1036 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,888 And it's and that's a really foreign concept 1037 00:53:22,889 --> 00:53:25,304 to somebody who isn't a person of faith 1038 00:53:25,305 --> 00:53:27,238 or raised within the church. 1039 00:53:29,136 --> 00:53:33,001 - [John] The first hymn was lost to the world for centuries 1040 00:53:33,002 --> 00:53:35,694 and rediscovered 100 years ago. 1041 00:53:35,695 --> 00:53:38,800 Experts have studied its musical and 1042 00:53:38,801 --> 00:53:41,355 historical significance for decades. 1043 00:53:41,356 --> 00:53:43,460 For the last two years, we've been 1044 00:53:43,461 --> 00:53:46,636 working to give it back to the world. 1045 00:53:46,637 --> 00:53:49,155 I don't know what the original composer 1046 00:53:49,156 --> 00:53:51,434 would think of what we're doing, 1047 00:53:51,435 --> 00:53:56,440 but it's time to lay this thing down again for posterity. 1048 00:53:58,649 --> 00:54:03,342 Dark Horse Studios, nestled in the countryside outside 1049 00:54:03,343 --> 00:54:05,828 beautiful Franklin, Tennessee. 1050 00:54:06,277 --> 00:54:09,003 This is where songs by Hunter Hayes, 1051 00:54:09,004 --> 00:54:12,214 Keith Urban and Taylor Swift were recorded. 1052 00:54:12,663 --> 00:54:15,216 Now it's the first hymn's turn. 1053 00:54:15,217 --> 00:54:18,255 - Hey! It's been a long time. 1054 00:54:19,635 --> 00:54:22,948 And this is where we meet Jonathan Smith, 1055 00:54:22,949 --> 00:54:25,847 the two time Grammy multi Dove Award winning 1056 00:54:25,848 --> 00:54:28,194 songwriter and producer. 1057 00:54:28,195 --> 00:54:30,093 He'll be shepherding us through this 1058 00:54:30,094 --> 00:54:33,545 crucial stage of reviving the first hymn. 1059 00:54:33,546 --> 00:54:35,823 - [Ben] And then we don't have to be bound by that. 1060 00:54:35,824 --> 00:54:37,135 - Yeah. 1061 00:54:41,070 --> 00:54:43,521 - [John] Here. We. Go. 1062 00:54:44,246 --> 00:54:48,112 ♪ To the only giver of all good gifts ♪ 1063 00:54:48,561 --> 00:54:50,872 ♪ Amen ♪ 1064 00:54:50,873 --> 00:54:55,221 ♪ To the only one who forgives our sins ♪ 1065 00:54:55,222 --> 00:54:57,501 ♪ Amen ♪ 1066 00:54:57,811 --> 00:55:01,400 ♪ To the only God to the risen king ♪ 1067 00:55:01,401 --> 00:55:05,266 ♪ To the one who died and rose again ♪ 1068 00:55:05,267 --> 00:55:12,136 ♪ Amen. We sing Amen ♪ 1069 00:55:12,999 --> 00:55:18,107 ♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪ 1070 00:55:19,592 --> 00:55:25,735 ♪ All glory and praise forever ♪ 1071 00:55:25,736 --> 00:55:27,737 ♪ To our God ♪ 1072 00:55:27,738 --> 00:55:32,949 ♪ The Father, Son and Holy Spirit ♪ 1073 00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:37,610 ♪ Amen, we sing Amen ♪ 1074 00:55:38,335 --> 00:55:40,474 - So that's it. Job done. 1075 00:55:40,475 --> 00:55:43,443 Save file, send to Spotify. 1076 00:55:43,685 --> 00:55:44,857 Not really. 1077 00:55:44,858 --> 00:55:47,170 The first hymn project was never about 1078 00:55:47,171 --> 00:55:49,724 just resurrecting an ancient song. 1079 00:55:49,725 --> 00:55:52,209 It's about giving that song back to 1080 00:55:52,210 --> 00:55:55,040 a new generation of believers and doubters. 1081 00:55:55,041 --> 00:55:57,215 And for that, we need a lot more help. 1082 00:55:58,458 --> 00:56:03,013 Greek speaking Egyptians first composed and sang this tribute 1083 00:56:03,014 --> 00:56:05,982 to the only giver of all good gifts. 1084 00:56:05,983 --> 00:56:08,329 So it only seems right to ask 1085 00:56:08,330 --> 00:56:11,056 a descendant of these ancient people to help us put the 1086 00:56:11,057 --> 00:56:13,162 finishing touches on the hymn. 1087 00:56:14,267 --> 00:56:17,373 This is Music City Walk of Fame. 1088 00:56:17,374 --> 00:56:19,375 It's pretty cool, but it's not where 1089 00:56:19,376 --> 00:56:22,032 we're going to find what I'm looking for. 1090 00:56:22,033 --> 00:56:23,793 From the beginning of this project, 1091 00:56:23,794 --> 00:56:26,899 I had the crazy idea of bringing the song full 1092 00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:30,662 circle by including an Egyptian singer, 1093 00:56:30,663 --> 00:56:33,734 someone who can capture the feel of the place 1094 00:56:33,735 --> 00:56:36,115 where this hymn was first sung 1095 00:56:36,116 --> 00:56:37,945 and then lost and then found again. 1096 00:56:37,946 --> 00:56:39,222 And you know what? 1097 00:56:39,223 --> 00:56:41,708 Nashville has given us that as well. 1098 00:56:43,814 --> 00:56:46,678 The Coptic Orthodox Church in America is 1099 00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:49,612 a branch of one of the oldest continuously 1100 00:56:49,613 --> 00:56:52,200 existing churches in the world. 1101 00:56:52,201 --> 00:56:54,479 The first Copts, as they're called, 1102 00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,482 arrived in the US in the 1940s. 1103 00:56:57,483 --> 00:56:59,173 They were foreign students who brought 1104 00:56:59,174 --> 00:57:01,417 their ancient ways with them. 1105 00:57:01,418 --> 00:57:04,523 Today, there are several hundred churches here 1106 00:57:04,524 --> 00:57:08,251 and all of them are committed to preserving their heritage, 1107 00:57:08,252 --> 00:57:09,840 including their music. 1108 00:57:12,256 --> 00:57:16,086 Katy Fayck Eskander is a native Egyptian 1109 00:57:16,087 --> 00:57:17,674 and the choir director 1110 00:57:17,675 --> 00:57:20,781 at St Mary's Coptic Church in Nashville. 1111 00:57:20,782 --> 00:57:24,923 She's recorded five studio albums and 25 singles. 1112 00:57:24,924 --> 00:57:29,031 And every week she helps keep alive her ancient tradition. 1113 00:57:59,717 --> 00:58:02,236 - Hey, I'm John. - Nice to meet you. 1114 00:58:02,237 --> 00:58:03,962 - We are thrilled to have you on board. 1115 00:58:03,963 --> 00:58:05,653 - Thank you so much. 1116 00:58:05,654 --> 00:58:08,276 - [John] We've come to speak with Katy on the morning of her 1117 00:58:08,277 --> 00:58:10,416 recording session for the new first hymn. 1118 00:58:10,417 --> 00:58:12,903 I'm nervous. I don't know how she's feeling. 1119 00:58:13,144 --> 00:58:15,076 What drew you to sing worship songs, 1120 00:58:15,077 --> 00:58:16,769 not just performance music? 1121 00:58:17,252 --> 00:58:20,289 - The first part was the genetic part from my mom. 1122 00:58:20,704 --> 00:58:21,877 She has amazing voice. 1123 00:58:22,464 --> 00:58:25,709 And the second part was my dad. 1124 00:58:27,089 --> 00:58:31,507 When I was three years old, he kept teaching me Coptic music 1125 00:58:31,508 --> 00:58:34,165 and Coptic songs and recorded it. 1126 00:58:34,441 --> 00:58:37,892 Then he let me listen to my voice. 1127 00:58:37,893 --> 00:58:41,447 "This is your voice. You have a good voice. Keep doing it". 1128 00:58:41,448 --> 00:58:44,830 The magic word here is the relationship 1129 00:58:44,831 --> 00:58:46,280 between you and God. 1130 00:58:46,281 --> 00:58:48,179 I feel like 1131 00:58:49,491 --> 00:58:52,907 this is a gift from God. My voice is a gift from God. 1132 00:58:52,908 --> 00:58:58,948 And the only person deserves it is Him. 1133 00:58:58,949 --> 00:59:03,124 So if I like to enjoy that, the amazing gift, 1134 00:59:03,125 --> 00:59:04,816 I would enjoy it with him. 1135 00:59:04,817 --> 00:59:08,648 So I feel like I'm praying in my way. 1136 00:59:09,511 --> 00:59:14,551 [coptic singing] 1137 00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,590 - [Ben] Jonathan, how are you? - I'm good. How's Australia? 1138 00:59:20,591 --> 00:59:22,973 - It's beautiful. It's always beautiful. 1139 00:59:23,387 --> 00:59:25,595 - [John] Chris and Ben have already given Jonathan 1140 00:59:25,596 --> 00:59:29,254 a good idea of what they hope Katy can bring to the song. 1141 00:59:29,255 --> 00:59:31,290 - So what are you thinking? 1142 00:59:31,291 --> 00:59:32,844 I know we've talked about maybe having 1143 00:59:32,845 --> 00:59:35,156 that sort of at the top of the song. 1144 00:59:35,157 --> 00:59:38,125 Like, how are you hearing it? 1145 00:59:38,126 --> 00:59:42,301 I think starting the song with that motif, 1146 00:59:42,302 --> 00:59:45,270 with her singing it is what's going to 1147 00:59:45,271 --> 00:59:48,860 really set the tone that this song isn't 1148 00:59:48,861 --> 00:59:51,725 like any normal song, right? 1149 00:59:51,726 --> 00:59:54,175 Like it's not, it's going to instantly 1150 00:59:54,176 --> 00:59:57,421 sort of give it an ancient feel. 1151 00:59:57,973 --> 01:00:02,149 Western music usually operates with just 12 notes. 1152 01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:06,361 C, C sharp, D, D sharp, E, F and so on. 1153 01:00:06,775 --> 01:00:10,191 Middle Eastern music, Arabic, Coptic and so on, 1154 01:00:10,192 --> 01:00:13,850 has 24 notes made up of microtones. 1155 01:00:13,851 --> 01:00:16,094 Very subtle pitches between the 1156 01:00:16,095 --> 01:00:17,613 traditional Western notes. 1157 01:00:17,614 --> 01:00:22,619 The result is a melodic wonderland rich in emotion. 1158 01:00:25,207 --> 01:00:28,278 [singing] 1159 01:00:28,279 --> 01:00:30,349 It doesn't take long before Katy 1160 01:00:30,350 --> 01:00:34,871 transports us to another time and another place 1161 01:00:34,872 --> 01:00:37,495 to centuries ago in Egypt. 1162 01:00:38,876 --> 01:00:41,188 - Wow. - Yes, fantastic. 1163 01:00:41,189 --> 01:00:44,329 That "all powers cry out in answer." 1164 01:00:44,330 --> 01:00:47,919 The line you do there is like, wow. 1165 01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:53,511 [singing] 1166 01:00:55,203 --> 01:01:00,103 [layering vocals] 1167 01:01:00,104 --> 01:01:02,554 ♪ And all be silent ♪ 1168 01:01:02,555 --> 01:01:05,591 - [John] Back when music was pretty much my life, 1169 01:01:05,592 --> 01:01:09,423 I loved and hated the recording studio. 1170 01:01:09,424 --> 01:01:11,839 I mean, when you play live, little mistakes, 1171 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,634 they don't matter so much. 1172 01:01:13,635 --> 01:01:17,569 A wrongly placed finger here, a slightly off note there, 1173 01:01:17,570 --> 01:01:21,193 and you can just call it jazz and hardly anyone notices. 1174 01:01:21,194 --> 01:01:23,886 But here it's different. 1175 01:01:23,887 --> 01:01:26,233 In the studio, your performance 1176 01:01:26,234 --> 01:01:28,304 over and over and over 1177 01:01:28,305 --> 01:01:31,341 eventually has to be perfect. 1178 01:01:31,342 --> 01:01:33,274 All the while trying to maintain the 1179 01:01:33,275 --> 01:01:35,829 sense of creative energy. 1180 01:01:35,830 --> 01:01:38,798 And that's why you need a good producer. 1181 01:01:42,112 --> 01:01:43,871 I think of producers a bit like 1182 01:01:43,872 --> 01:01:47,323 Michelangelo, you know, technically precise 1183 01:01:47,324 --> 01:01:50,602 and artistically brilliant, and they can often 1184 01:01:50,603 --> 01:01:53,743 see the finished product from the beginning. 1185 01:01:53,744 --> 01:01:56,366 I mean, a good producer can hear what 1186 01:01:56,367 --> 01:01:58,748 a song really wants to sound like 1187 01:01:58,749 --> 01:02:01,545 even better than the original composers. 1188 01:02:01,856 --> 01:02:03,891 - I know what moves my spirit 1189 01:02:03,892 --> 01:02:05,168 and what moves me. 1190 01:02:05,169 --> 01:02:08,793 And that's really the only 1191 01:02:08,794 --> 01:02:12,142 compass that I know to have. 1192 01:02:13,522 --> 01:02:16,524 And so I do think as you as you work 1193 01:02:16,525 --> 01:02:18,975 and as you get experience, your instincts get honed in 1194 01:02:18,976 --> 01:02:21,322 and you know what you tend to love. 1195 01:02:21,323 --> 01:02:22,599 You trust that there's going to be 1196 01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:24,810 other people out there that love it. 1197 01:02:25,189 --> 01:02:27,156 - [John] Producers know exactly 1198 01:02:27,157 --> 01:02:29,745 what each instrument can bring to a piece 1199 01:02:29,746 --> 01:02:33,300 and how to bring out the best in every musician. 1200 01:02:33,301 --> 01:02:37,166 They guide the arrangement and the performance. 1201 01:02:37,167 --> 01:02:40,169 And once it's all recorded, they select, 1202 01:02:40,170 --> 01:02:42,033 arrange and layer the 1203 01:02:42,034 --> 01:02:45,450 dozens and dozens of individual tracks 1204 01:02:45,451 --> 01:02:48,074 to fashion a coherent whole. 1205 01:02:52,285 --> 01:02:54,528 What did you put in there to make that happen? 1206 01:02:54,529 --> 01:02:58,775 - So I added that same guitar part right here. 1207 01:03:01,847 --> 01:03:04,158 With some effects on it like these right here. 1208 01:03:04,159 --> 01:03:10,200 Some pretty wide stereo reverbs and things like that. 1209 01:03:11,235 --> 01:03:13,340 And so that was that was what I started with 1210 01:03:13,341 --> 01:03:16,274 and then even added some what I would call 1211 01:03:16,275 --> 01:03:20,105 kind of a world sounds and rhythms 1212 01:03:20,106 --> 01:03:25,007 like this right here to go along with it. 1213 01:03:25,008 --> 01:03:27,941 Again, just to put, I want those 1214 01:03:27,942 --> 01:03:31,393 musicians first time they hear it to be OK, this is not, 1215 01:03:32,394 --> 01:03:34,223 this song did not come out of Nashville. 1216 01:03:34,224 --> 01:03:35,741 [laughing] 1217 01:03:35,742 --> 01:03:39,642 I want them to know this is a an ancient thing. 1218 01:03:39,643 --> 01:03:44,544 And so even these banging on a banjo and guitar. 1219 01:03:45,476 --> 01:03:47,926 - Huh, Yeah - Yeah. 1220 01:03:47,927 --> 01:03:51,517 - Oh, that's gorgeous. - Yeah. And so you play this. 1221 01:03:52,138 --> 01:03:53,345 And then what they're 1222 01:03:53,346 --> 01:03:54,519 - So they're thinking world music? 1223 01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:55,865 - Exactly. - Yeah. 1224 01:03:55,866 --> 01:03:57,694 - And you know what I'm telling them is, hey, 1225 01:03:57,695 --> 01:04:00,145 I want you to still do the thing that you do and do well, 1226 01:04:00,146 --> 01:04:03,839 but I want you to feel sort of 1227 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,289 the heartbeat of the song and not be guessing. 1228 01:04:06,290 --> 01:04:07,912 Just picture it's going to sound like this, 1229 01:04:07,913 --> 01:04:09,120 you know, when it's all done. 1230 01:04:09,121 --> 01:04:13,434 So sometimes I'll start with those sort of 1231 01:04:13,435 --> 01:04:15,472 more stylized things first. 1232 01:04:16,162 --> 01:04:20,441 - [John] I'm in awe of the way a producer like Jonathan 1233 01:04:20,442 --> 01:04:23,651 can snatch one of those layers, move it to the front 1234 01:04:23,652 --> 01:04:28,071 of the soundscape and change the whole mood of the song. 1235 01:04:29,106 --> 01:04:32,074 Oh, yeah, no, this is this is one of my favorite bits. 1236 01:04:32,075 --> 01:04:34,110 - Yeah. - This was I saw this happen. 1237 01:04:34,111 --> 01:04:35,594 Like I remember thinking, oh, man, he's 1238 01:04:35,595 --> 01:04:38,494 just replicated the ancient melody. 1239 01:04:38,495 --> 01:04:42,084 - Yeah. So we had originally we had him playing over 1240 01:04:42,085 --> 01:04:44,328 the very beginning of the song. 1241 01:04:45,019 --> 01:04:48,193 [electric guitar playing] 1242 01:04:48,194 --> 01:04:50,195 Because we knew we wanted that melody, right? 1243 01:04:50,196 --> 01:04:52,888 And so we weren't exactly sure in the moment, 1244 01:04:52,889 --> 01:04:54,855 you know, is it going to be a guitar? 1245 01:04:54,856 --> 01:04:57,823 Is it a piano? Is it a vocal? Let's just get it all down. 1246 01:04:57,824 --> 01:05:01,966 And then sort of in the editing process, we will decide. 1247 01:05:01,967 --> 01:05:04,934 So I think this was kind of the first thing he played. 1248 01:05:04,935 --> 01:05:07,661 [music playing] 1249 01:05:07,662 --> 01:05:09,767 Kind of played through the whole song. 1250 01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:13,461 Just beautiful tone. 1251 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,498 But I think the moment that it really counts would be this 1252 01:05:17,499 --> 01:05:21,019 section between the second chorus and the bridge. 1253 01:05:21,020 --> 01:05:23,366 - Yeah. - I'll solo it. 1254 01:05:23,367 --> 01:05:25,852 We can kind of hear what he's doing, but. 1255 01:05:28,441 --> 01:05:31,824 [lead guitar plays solo] 1256 01:05:32,963 --> 01:05:34,757 Yeah - Yeah, this is basically 1257 01:05:34,758 --> 01:05:37,104 the "amen, amen". 1258 01:05:37,105 --> 01:05:39,521 - And everything altogether comes in. 1259 01:05:42,455 --> 01:05:48,185 [lead guitar plays with band] 1260 01:05:49,186 --> 01:05:52,395 - Yeah, so that's so good. 1261 01:05:52,396 --> 01:05:55,088 - It's very like an arrival moment. 1262 01:05:55,089 --> 01:05:59,299 It's a hook we've heard from the beginning, a softer version. 1263 01:05:59,300 --> 01:06:03,027 And then that's more of a triumphant version. 1264 01:06:03,028 --> 01:06:05,754 - [John] And how are you feeling about this song? 1265 01:06:05,962 --> 01:06:08,825 - I feel the most excited about it. 1266 01:06:08,826 --> 01:06:11,553 I just cannot wait for people to hear this song. 1267 01:06:12,796 --> 01:06:15,349 - [John] And the final destination for all this? 1268 01:06:15,350 --> 01:06:18,007 Well, it'll be on Chris Tomlin's next album, 1269 01:06:18,008 --> 01:06:20,527 which might already be out by the time you're watching this. 1270 01:06:20,528 --> 01:06:22,736 But stay with us and you'll hear 1271 01:06:22,737 --> 01:06:25,532 all these layers come together beautifully 1272 01:06:25,533 --> 01:06:27,811 in a new version of the first hymn. 1273 01:06:28,363 --> 01:06:30,640 And while all this has been going on, 1274 01:06:30,641 --> 01:06:34,300 we've been getting ready for something very special. 1275 01:06:35,232 --> 01:06:39,340 [footsteps] 1276 01:06:40,099 --> 01:06:42,757 [stringed instruments tuning] 1277 01:06:50,523 --> 01:06:52,007 - [Dr. Wilder] You know, it's interesting. 1278 01:06:52,008 --> 01:06:54,319 1860, the school was founded, 1279 01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,287 started with eight faculty members. 1280 01:06:56,288 --> 01:06:58,979 And one of those was a professor of sacred music. 1281 01:06:58,980 --> 01:07:00,498 So from the very beginning, 1282 01:07:00,499 --> 01:07:02,431 the humble beginnings of the institution, 1283 01:07:02,432 --> 01:07:05,192 music at the at the heart of things, 1284 01:07:05,193 --> 01:07:06,573 not that surprising. 1285 01:07:06,574 --> 01:07:09,300 When you think about the musical 1286 01:07:09,301 --> 01:07:11,648 propensity of human beings, 1287 01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:14,409 music found in every known culture, 1288 01:07:14,616 --> 01:07:16,721 music ubiquitous in our world 1289 01:07:16,722 --> 01:07:20,139 and so important to human flourishing. 1290 01:07:20,795 --> 01:07:24,212 People, it turns out, want to make music. 1291 01:07:24,937 --> 01:07:28,491 - [John] Wheaton College was established in 1860 1292 01:07:28,492 --> 01:07:30,838 by abolitionist church leaders. 1293 01:07:30,839 --> 01:07:34,567 It was a well-known stop on the famous Underground Railway. 1294 01:07:34,843 --> 01:07:37,017 Its main mission today is to provide a 1295 01:07:37,018 --> 01:07:39,640 classic liberal arts education, 1296 01:07:39,641 --> 01:07:42,643 integrating science, music, history, 1297 01:07:42,644 --> 01:07:45,061 literature and the Christian faith. 1298 01:07:45,992 --> 01:07:49,685 This is also where I teach the history of Christianity 1299 01:07:49,686 --> 01:07:51,687 and what we can learn from the good 1300 01:07:51,688 --> 01:07:53,275 and the bad of the past. 1301 01:07:53,276 --> 01:07:56,417 The first hymn is definitely part of the good. 1302 01:07:58,212 --> 01:08:02,111 Why is Wheaton College involved in this first hymn project? 1303 01:08:02,112 --> 01:08:04,355 I mean, apart from the fact that I just wandered over 1304 01:08:04,356 --> 01:08:06,633 one day to your office and sprung the idea on you? 1305 01:08:06,634 --> 01:08:08,704 - Well, I'm sure you recall we were both 1306 01:08:08,705 --> 01:08:10,809 very enthused about the whole thing. 1307 01:08:10,810 --> 01:08:14,365 What a compelling story that we would link 1308 01:08:14,366 --> 01:08:17,507 with this writer of this music 1309 01:08:17,886 --> 01:08:19,887 so, so many years ago, 1310 01:08:19,888 --> 01:08:22,062 that we would join hands 1311 01:08:22,063 --> 01:08:25,410 with those who sang this first hymn. 1312 01:08:25,411 --> 01:08:28,137 And now, so many years later, 1313 01:08:28,138 --> 01:08:31,693 resonating with the message, the music. 1314 01:08:32,004 --> 01:08:34,109 - [John] When the team at the conservatory heard 1315 01:08:34,110 --> 01:08:35,904 about the first hymn project, 1316 01:08:36,457 --> 01:08:38,389 they were keen to see the song brought 1317 01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:41,703 back to life in multiple musical formats. 1318 01:08:42,118 --> 01:08:47,295 - [Dr. Wilder] I think this is such a mysterious and honourable 1319 01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:50,573 project and our students and faculty 1320 01:08:50,574 --> 01:08:54,370 have really seized this story. 1321 01:08:54,371 --> 01:08:57,236 - [John] Which is why these guys are here. 1322 01:08:58,651 --> 01:09:02,516 They're working on a classical rendition of the first hymn, 1323 01:09:02,517 --> 01:09:06,521 both the Tomlin/Fielding version and the original Greek one. 1324 01:09:08,385 --> 01:09:11,042 - [Dr. Payne] I am honoured to be a part of it. 1325 01:09:11,043 --> 01:09:13,010 I love surprises. 1326 01:09:13,321 --> 01:09:15,978 And this is a complete surprise. 1327 01:09:15,979 --> 01:09:17,567 So I count it a privilege. 1328 01:09:18,015 --> 01:09:20,914 - [John] Dr Tony Payne is the creative mind 1329 01:09:20,915 --> 01:09:22,572 behind the new arrangement. 1330 01:09:22,986 --> 01:09:25,160 - [Dr. Payne] It's really another worldly kind of 1331 01:09:25,161 --> 01:09:29,336 experience to reach back into hymnody 1332 01:09:29,337 --> 01:09:31,822 that wasn't notated like we notate 1333 01:09:32,409 --> 01:09:35,135 and didn't have the form and structure 1334 01:09:35,136 --> 01:09:38,173 like we have today in a typical hymn 1335 01:09:38,174 --> 01:09:39,865 or Christian song. 1336 01:09:40,348 --> 01:09:42,901 And so I struggled with it a bit. 1337 01:09:42,902 --> 01:09:48,080 It's like a gift that comes in a time capsule 1338 01:09:48,322 --> 01:09:51,600 and we're suddenly confronting it for the first time. 1339 01:09:51,601 --> 01:09:54,431 And I find it really captivating. 1340 01:09:57,262 --> 01:10:00,056 I had a go at singing the Greek original 1341 01:10:00,057 --> 01:10:02,024 in the ruins of Oxyrhynchus. 1342 01:10:02,025 --> 01:10:04,406 It was special, but I'm pretty sure 1343 01:10:04,407 --> 01:10:07,133 this is how it's really meant to sound. 1344 01:10:07,962 --> 01:10:15,107 [choir sings ancient Greek] 1345 01:10:32,228 --> 01:10:36,266 [choir continues singing] 1346 01:10:56,735 --> 01:11:00,221 [choir continues singing] 1347 01:11:16,651 --> 01:11:20,310 - They say music can transport the soul. 1348 01:11:20,931 --> 01:11:24,935 I reckon I just visited Roman Egypt in the 200s. 1349 01:11:25,453 --> 01:11:29,699 How I wish we could now bring the original composer here 1350 01:11:29,975 --> 01:11:33,358 to watch what we're about to do to the first hymn. 1351 01:11:34,428 --> 01:11:38,983 ♪ Let all be silent ♪ 1352 01:11:38,984 --> 01:11:41,951 ♪ The shining stars not sound ♪ 1353 01:11:41,952 --> 01:11:43,746 ♪ Rushing rivers..... ♪ 1354 01:11:43,747 --> 01:11:45,886 - [John] Tony is the kind of musical scholar 1355 01:11:45,887 --> 01:11:49,096 that speaks multiple musical languages. 1356 01:11:49,097 --> 01:11:51,823 He tells me he just loves what Chris 1357 01:11:51,824 --> 01:11:53,999 and Ben's melody is saying. 1358 01:11:54,793 --> 01:11:58,105 - [Dr. Payne] You tend to have thirds like this. 1359 01:11:58,106 --> 01:12:01,178 [plays chords on piano] 1360 01:12:02,007 --> 01:12:03,594 - That's what our ear expects. 1361 01:12:03,595 --> 01:12:08,081 But in this newer language that we're enjoying 1362 01:12:08,082 --> 01:12:10,395 and learning about. 1363 01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:14,846 So there it is just hanging. 1364 01:12:14,847 --> 01:12:17,642 And I don't think there could be a more powerful use 1365 01:12:17,643 --> 01:12:21,164 of that suspended harmony as the technical term for it. 1366 01:12:22,027 --> 01:12:25,202 Because normally we might expect to hear this. 1367 01:12:27,066 --> 01:12:29,103 But that's not there. 1368 01:12:33,003 --> 01:12:34,833 But then you look at the text 1369 01:12:35,523 --> 01:12:38,492 and you realize it makes all the sense in the world. 1370 01:12:39,769 --> 01:12:41,667 Let all be silent. 1371 01:12:43,773 --> 01:12:45,808 Shining stars not sound. 1372 01:12:45,809 --> 01:12:51,539 The thought of the stars being silent is really powerful. 1373 01:12:52,298 --> 01:12:56,716 [choir singing] ♪ Amen we sing ♪ 1374 01:12:56,717 --> 01:13:00,305 ♪ Amen ♪ 1375 01:13:00,306 --> 01:13:04,724 ♪ Amen we sing ♪ 1376 01:13:04,725 --> 01:13:10,558 ♪ Amen ♪ 1377 01:13:11,387 --> 01:13:16,046 [audience applauding] 1378 01:13:24,952 --> 01:13:27,022 - [John] The big day approaches. 1379 01:13:27,023 --> 01:13:31,578 Chris and Ben have chosen Fort Worth, Texas for the concert 1380 01:13:31,579 --> 01:13:35,480 that officially hands the first hymn back to the world. 1381 01:13:37,136 --> 01:13:38,930 We've still got a bit of time. 1382 01:13:38,931 --> 01:13:41,657 And there's one more person I wanted to speak to 1383 01:13:41,658 --> 01:13:43,797 about how this whole project relates 1384 01:13:43,798 --> 01:13:46,318 to the broader story of sacred music. 1385 01:13:46,732 --> 01:13:48,837 - [Dr. Monteiro] And I think people remember 1386 01:13:48,838 --> 01:13:51,219 songs more than they remember sermons. 1387 01:13:51,599 --> 01:13:54,221 And in that time, especially when not everybody was reading, 1388 01:13:54,222 --> 01:13:55,707 there were not books everywhere. 1389 01:13:55,948 --> 01:13:58,502 So the words of the songs would be some things 1390 01:13:58,503 --> 01:14:01,021 that will stay deep in their memories. 1391 01:14:01,022 --> 01:14:03,127 We know from my own research, 1392 01:14:03,128 --> 01:14:05,612 how missionaries when they arrive in different places, 1393 01:14:05,613 --> 01:14:08,304 new places, they were very concerned 1394 01:14:08,305 --> 01:14:11,411 about publishing some kind of collection of songs 1395 01:14:11,412 --> 01:14:13,378 because once they were gone, 1396 01:14:13,379 --> 01:14:16,209 until the next preacher would come around, 1397 01:14:16,210 --> 01:14:19,592 the community could hold on to those words 1398 01:14:19,593 --> 01:14:22,354 and remember what they were by singing. 1399 01:14:25,426 --> 01:14:28,739 - [John] From the first century to the 21st century, 1400 01:14:28,740 --> 01:14:31,707 Christians haven't just preached their message 1401 01:14:31,708 --> 01:14:34,745 about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 1402 01:14:34,746 --> 01:14:38,196 They've sung it, inviting everyone, 1403 01:14:38,197 --> 01:14:40,302 whether believer or doubter, 1404 01:14:40,303 --> 01:14:43,098 whether in Oxyrhynchus or Texas, 1405 01:14:43,099 --> 01:14:45,273 to consider singing along. 1406 01:14:45,619 --> 01:14:47,861 - [Dr. Monteiro] I think so. I think music is very powerful 1407 01:14:47,862 --> 01:14:50,588 and it moves emotions and sometimes, 1408 01:14:50,589 --> 01:14:52,521 I think it's interesting. We have eyelids, 1409 01:14:52,522 --> 01:14:53,729 but we don't have earlids. 1410 01:14:53,730 --> 01:14:55,628 So sometimes we may hear something, 1411 01:14:55,629 --> 01:14:58,078 even if you are not planning on, that's different. 1412 01:14:58,079 --> 01:15:00,149 We can always turn our face and not see something, 1413 01:15:00,150 --> 01:15:03,739 but we can sometimes not take a while for us not to listen. 1414 01:15:03,740 --> 01:15:06,431 And I think it's interesting. I have heard stories of people 1415 01:15:06,432 --> 01:15:09,296 that they were just attracted by the sound 1416 01:15:09,297 --> 01:15:11,816 and then they join in and then they understand, 1417 01:15:11,817 --> 01:15:13,404 oh, this is what they're saying. 1418 01:15:13,405 --> 01:15:16,200 And people that have told me in their own lives, 1419 01:15:16,201 --> 01:15:18,167 how they still remember 1420 01:15:18,168 --> 01:15:20,031 that was that one line from that song 1421 01:15:20,032 --> 01:15:22,447 and they didn't understand anything about doctrine, 1422 01:15:22,448 --> 01:15:25,347 about church, what's a Protestant, what's a Baptist, 1423 01:15:25,348 --> 01:15:29,145 but that message of the song spoke to me. 1424 01:15:30,629 --> 01:15:33,355 - [John] One reason thoughtful people are put off 1425 01:15:33,356 --> 01:15:35,426 by this Christian message today 1426 01:15:35,427 --> 01:15:39,016 is the sheer number of church brands. 1427 01:15:39,017 --> 01:15:40,880 With an estimated 3000 1428 01:15:40,881 --> 01:15:44,435 denominations worldwide, it's no surprise that 1429 01:15:44,436 --> 01:15:48,371 people ask the question, which version of Christianity? 1430 01:15:48,923 --> 01:15:51,822 That's what's so special about the first hymn. 1431 01:15:51,823 --> 01:15:54,687 It was composed before there were denominations. 1432 01:15:54,688 --> 01:15:57,068 It captures the heart of Christianity 1433 01:15:57,069 --> 01:16:01,107 before there was Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, or Protestant. 1434 01:16:01,108 --> 01:16:03,730 And Chris and Ben have worked really hard 1435 01:16:03,731 --> 01:16:05,352 to highlight that core 1436 01:16:05,353 --> 01:16:08,217 so that all the brands of Christianity today 1437 01:16:08,218 --> 01:16:10,186 can sing the new first hymn. 1438 01:16:12,498 --> 01:16:16,156 Well, it's now time to test that idea. 1439 01:16:16,157 --> 01:16:18,712 And have we got the crowd to do it. 1440 01:16:19,436 --> 01:16:22,922 There's over 10,000 people here tonight. 1441 01:16:22,923 --> 01:16:24,406 It's completely sold out. 1442 01:16:24,407 --> 01:16:26,822 When I was a musician, I only ever played venues 1443 01:16:26,823 --> 01:16:30,136 about a 10th the size of this on a good night, 1444 01:16:30,137 --> 01:16:32,379 but I remember the feeling backstage 1445 01:16:32,380 --> 01:16:34,623 as the audience filled the venue. 1446 01:16:34,624 --> 01:16:36,799 I wonder how Chris and Ben are feeling. 1447 01:16:39,111 --> 01:16:41,906 - Brings out both new and old things 1448 01:16:41,907 --> 01:16:43,494 out of his treasure chest. 1449 01:16:43,495 --> 01:16:46,601 - [John] This is the climax of an extraordinary journey. 1450 01:16:46,602 --> 01:16:51,536 We have traced the rediscovery of P. Oxy 1786, 1451 01:16:51,537 --> 01:16:54,160 uncovered the significance of the first hymn 1452 01:16:54,161 --> 01:16:55,679 with musical notation, 1453 01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:59,234 and witnessed master musicians transform it 1454 01:16:59,235 --> 01:17:01,926 into a stunning 21st century anthem. 1455 01:17:01,927 --> 01:17:05,758 After two years of work, we're ready to return the song 1456 01:17:05,759 --> 01:17:09,452 to its rightful place on the lips of thousands. 1457 01:17:09,832 --> 01:17:13,559 - The last time it was sung was probably 1,800 years ago. 1458 01:17:14,284 --> 01:17:17,667 And we will sing it tonight for the very first time. 1459 01:17:19,496 --> 01:17:23,604 - [John] And now, the resurrected first hymn in full. 1460 01:17:27,090 --> 01:17:31,681 [gentle music] 1461 01:17:38,274 --> 01:17:41,518 ♪ Let all be silent ♪ 1462 01:17:42,554 --> 01:17:44,936 ♪ The shining stars not sound ♪ 1463 01:17:45,453 --> 01:17:48,215 ♪ The rushing rivers still ♪ 1464 01:17:49,078 --> 01:17:51,805 ♪ Let the mountains bow down ♪ 1465 01:17:52,046 --> 01:17:54,566 ♪ In awe and wonder ♪ 1466 01:17:56,292 --> 01:17:58,846 ♪ In reverence we come ♪ 1467 01:17:59,398 --> 01:18:02,884 ♪ Who is worthy of all worship? ♪ 1468 01:18:02,885 --> 01:18:05,750 ♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪ 1469 01:18:07,027 --> 01:18:12,411 ♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪ 1470 01:18:14,137 --> 01:18:19,142 ♪ All glory and praise forever ♪ 1471 01:18:19,660 --> 01:18:27,218 ♪ To our God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ♪ 1472 01:18:27,219 --> 01:18:32,500 ♪ Amen, we sing amen. ♪ 1473 01:18:33,329 --> 01:18:36,712 ♪ Let all be silent ♪ 1474 01:18:37,574 --> 01:18:40,369 ♪ The shining stars not sound ♪ 1475 01:18:40,370 --> 01:18:43,477 ♪ The rushing rivers still ♪ 1476 01:18:44,547 --> 01:18:47,101 ♪ The mountains bow down ♪ 1477 01:18:47,343 --> 01:18:49,794 ♪ In awe and wonder ♪ 1478 01:18:51,347 --> 01:18:53,867 ♪ In reverence we come ♪ 1479 01:18:54,453 --> 01:18:57,524 ♪ Who is worthy of all worship? ♪ 1480 01:18:57,525 --> 01:19:00,356 ♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪ 1481 01:19:01,322 --> 01:19:04,429 ♪ Who is worthy of all worship? ♪ 1482 01:19:04,670 --> 01:19:08,813 ♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪ 1483 01:19:09,020 --> 01:19:14,094 ♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪ 1484 01:19:15,440 --> 01:19:20,859 ♪ All glory and praise forever ♪ 1485 01:19:21,549 --> 01:19:28,521 ♪ To our God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ♪ 1486 01:19:28,522 --> 01:19:34,045 ♪ Amen, we sing amen. ♪ 1487 01:19:38,739 --> 01:19:42,501 ♪ To the only giver of all good gifts ♪ 1488 01:19:43,019 --> 01:19:45,641 ♪ Amen ♪ 1489 01:19:45,642 --> 01:19:49,784 ♪ To the only one who forgives our sins ♪ 1490 01:19:49,785 --> 01:19:52,441 ♪ Amen ♪ 1491 01:19:52,442 --> 01:19:56,169 ♪ To the only God to the risen King ♪ 1492 01:19:56,170 --> 01:19:59,483 ♪ To the one who died and rose again ♪ 1493 01:19:59,484 --> 01:20:05,041 ♪ Amen, we sing amen. ♪ 1494 01:20:06,111 --> 01:20:09,770 ♪ To the only giver of all good gifts ♪ 1495 01:20:10,184 --> 01:20:12,910 ♪ Amen ♪ 1496 01:20:12,911 --> 01:20:17,190 ♪ To the only one who forgives our sins ♪ 1497 01:20:17,191 --> 01:20:19,744 ♪ Amen ♪ 1498 01:20:19,745 --> 01:20:23,300 ♪ To the only God to the risen King ♪ 1499 01:20:23,301 --> 01:20:27,166 ♪ To the one who died and rose again ♪ 1500 01:20:27,167 --> 01:20:33,587 ♪ Amen, we sing amen. ♪ 1501 01:20:34,553 --> 01:20:39,731 ♪ All power's cry out in answer ♪ 1502 01:20:41,077 --> 01:20:47,082 ♪ All glory and praise forever ♪ 1503 01:20:47,083 --> 01:20:54,400 ♪ To our God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ♪ 1504 01:20:54,401 --> 01:20:59,129 ♪ Amen, we sing amen ♪ 1505 01:20:59,130 --> 01:21:01,338 ♪ Amen. ♪ 1506 01:21:01,339 --> 01:21:05,790 ♪ Amen, we sing amen ♪ 1507 01:21:05,791 --> 01:21:08,103 ♪ Amen. ♪ 1508 01:21:08,104 --> 01:21:14,283 ♪ We sing our hymn, amen. ♪ 1509 01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:19,390 - [John] At the end of all of this, 1510 01:21:19,391 --> 01:21:22,669 I just find myself thinking about the original composer 1511 01:21:22,670 --> 01:21:25,363 of the first hymn and the people who first sang it. 1512 01:21:25,708 --> 01:21:28,848 Here they were trying to engage a culture 1513 01:21:28,849 --> 01:21:31,540 that was sometimes trying to eradicate them. 1514 01:21:31,541 --> 01:21:33,094 They could never have imagined 1515 01:21:33,095 --> 01:21:34,854 what would become of their song. 1516 01:21:34,855 --> 01:21:37,167 They could never have predicted that their message 1517 01:21:37,168 --> 01:21:39,410 of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit 1518 01:21:39,411 --> 01:21:41,689 would one day cover the globe. 1519 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,725 Although maybe that's wrong. 1520 01:21:43,726 --> 01:21:46,279 Given how confident we know they were 1521 01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:48,799 in the only giver of all good gifts, 1522 01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,491 maybe this is exactly the sort of thing 1523 01:21:51,492 --> 01:21:53,804 they might have dared to imagine. 1524 01:21:53,805 --> 01:21:58,189 ♪ To the only giver of all good gifts ♪ 1525 01:21:58,499 --> 01:22:00,812 ♪ Amen ♪ 1526 01:22:01,226 --> 01:22:05,540 ♪ To the only one who forgives our sins ♪ 1527 01:22:05,541 --> 01:22:08,370 ♪ Amen ♪ 1528 01:22:08,371 --> 01:22:11,787 ♪ To the only God, to the risen King ♪ 1529 01:22:11,788 --> 01:22:15,860 ♪ To the one who died and rose again ♪ 1530 01:22:15,861 --> 01:22:17,655 ♪ Amen ♪ 1531 01:22:17,656 --> 01:22:21,660 ♪ We sing amen. ♪ 1532 01:22:22,523 --> 01:22:26,802 ♪ To the only giver of all good gifts ♪ 1533 01:22:26,803 --> 01:22:29,082 ♪ Amen ♪ 1534 01:22:29,427 --> 01:22:33,809 ♪ To the only one who forgives our sins ♪ 1535 01:22:33,810 --> 01:22:36,502 ♪ Amen ♪ 1536 01:22:36,503 --> 01:22:40,161 ♪ To the only God, to the risen King ♪ 1537 01:22:40,162 --> 01:22:44,027 ♪ To the one who died and rose again ♪ 1538 01:22:44,028 --> 01:22:45,683 ♪ Amen ♪ 1539 01:22:45,684 --> 01:22:50,689 ♪ We sing amen. ♪ 1540 01:22:51,414 --> 01:22:57,075 ♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪ 1541 01:22:58,490 --> 01:23:03,702 ♪ All glory and praise forever ♪ 1542 01:23:04,289 --> 01:23:12,020 ♪ To our God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ♪ 1543 01:23:12,021 --> 01:23:13,884 ♪ Amen ♪ 1544 01:23:13,885 --> 01:23:17,785 ♪ We sing amen. ♪ 1545 01:23:18,614 --> 01:23:27,104 ♪ To our God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ♪ 1546 01:23:27,105 --> 01:23:29,072 ♪ Amen ♪ 1547 01:23:29,073 --> 01:23:35,113 ♪ We sing amen. ♪ 1548 01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:40,256 [audience cheering] 1549 01:24:16,396 --> 01:24:20,572 [classical music plays softly] 1550 01:24:22,229 --> 01:24:26,646 ♪ Let all be silent ♪ 1551 01:24:26,647 --> 01:24:29,546 ♪ The shining stars not sound ♪ 1552 01:24:29,547 --> 01:24:33,653 ♪ Rushing rivers still ♪ 1553 01:24:33,654 --> 01:24:37,036 ♪ let mountains bow down ♪ 1554 01:24:37,037 --> 01:24:41,109 ♪ In awe and wonder ♪ 1555 01:24:41,110 --> 01:24:44,940 ♪ with reverence we come ♪ 1556 01:24:44,941 --> 01:24:48,599 ♪ Who is worth of all worship? ♪ 1557 01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:52,810 ♪ Who is seated on the throne? ♪ 1558 01:24:52,811 --> 01:24:55,986 ♪ All powers cry out ♪ 1559 01:24:55,987 --> 01:25:00,198 ♪ in answer. ♪ 1560 01:25:00,474 --> 01:25:06,307 ♪ All glory and praise forever ♪ 1561 01:25:06,308 --> 01:25:10,034 ♪ To our God, the Father, ♪ 1562 01:25:10,035 --> 01:25:14,246 ♪ Son and Holy Spirit ♪ 1563 01:25:14,247 --> 01:25:15,868 ♪ Amen ♪ 1564 01:25:15,869 --> 01:25:21,599 ♪ We sing, Amen ♪ 1565 01:25:25,154 --> 01:25:26,948 ♪ To the only giver ♪ 1566 01:25:26,949 --> 01:25:29,295 ♪ of all good gifts ♪ 1567 01:25:29,296 --> 01:25:32,367 ♪ Amen ♪ 1568 01:25:32,368 --> 01:25:34,231 ♪ To the only one ♪ 1569 01:25:34,232 --> 01:25:36,785 ♪ who forgives our sins ♪ 1570 01:25:36,786 --> 01:25:39,651 ♪ Amen ♪ 1571 01:25:40,031 --> 01:25:41,756 ♪ To the only God, ♪ 1572 01:25:41,757 --> 01:25:43,861 ♪ to the risen King ♪ 1573 01:25:43,862 --> 01:25:45,863 ♪ To the one who died ♪ 1574 01:25:45,864 --> 01:25:47,520 ♪ and rose again ♪ 1575 01:25:47,521 --> 01:25:53,493 ♪ Amen. We sing Amen. ♪ 1576 01:25:55,426 --> 01:26:01,604 ♪ All powers cry out in answer ♪ 1577 01:26:03,088 --> 01:26:08,818 ♪ All glory and praise forever ♪ 1578 01:26:09,094 --> 01:26:12,580 ♪ To our God, the Father, ♪ 1579 01:26:12,581 --> 01:26:16,860 ♪ Son and Holy Spirit ♪ 1580 01:26:16,861 --> 01:26:18,965 ♪ Amen. ♪ 1581 01:26:18,966 --> 01:26:26,146 ♪ We sing Amen. ♪