1 00:00:45,336 --> 00:00:47,213 And that's how he died. 2 00:00:49,841 --> 00:00:55,555 But that was not the only death that people were talking about. 3 00:00:56,848 --> 00:00:59,684 Also, there was Ron Jordan. 4 00:01:03,897 --> 00:01:05,482 Back in '85, 5 00:01:06,107 --> 00:01:10,195 Ron Jordan worked for Dave Sconce. 6 00:01:11,321 --> 00:01:13,990 I knew Ron, I knew the whole family, his family. 7 00:01:15,325 --> 00:01:18,119 He transported bodies to the crematory to be cremated. 8 00:01:20,455 --> 00:01:22,540 He saw what Dave is doing. 9 00:01:25,001 --> 00:01:28,171 Ron decided, "I don't wanna have anything to do with it. 10 00:01:29,172 --> 00:01:30,965 I'm quitting. I'm done." 11 00:01:32,842 --> 00:01:34,844 But he was scared of Dave Sconce. 12 00:01:37,388 --> 00:01:40,224 So, he told Dave, "Listen, you have nothing to worry about it. 13 00:01:40,225 --> 00:01:41,518 I know nothing, I saw nothing." 14 00:01:43,978 --> 00:01:47,232 He was looking forward for the next phase of his life. 15 00:01:48,399 --> 00:01:51,111 He was a handsome guy, he had a gorgeous girlfriend. 16 00:01:51,778 --> 00:01:56,616 Young, educated. He wanted to be a fireman. 17 00:02:00,703 --> 00:02:04,873 Two weeks later, we hear that Ron was found hanging. 18 00:02:04,874 --> 00:02:06,209 He committed suicide. 19 00:02:12,173 --> 00:02:14,509 Coroner came in, did an investigation. 20 00:02:16,136 --> 00:02:20,472 Not enough evidence to blame anyone other than hearsay, 21 00:02:20,473 --> 00:02:25,353 but we all had no doubts that he didn't do that to himself. 22 00:02:27,647 --> 00:02:30,107 Everyone knew Ron, everyone knew Dave, 23 00:02:30,108 --> 00:02:32,944 everyone knew the business, said that cannot happen. 24 00:02:35,363 --> 00:02:41,244 There's no proof, of course, but a couple weeks before, Ron... 25 00:02:42,495 --> 00:02:46,290 he mentioned it, not realizing that it's gonna come true. 26 00:02:46,291 --> 00:02:50,003 You know, "If anything happens to me, just look for Dave." 27 00:02:54,382 --> 00:02:59,344 Certain people said that I killed Ron Jordan, who, okay. 28 00:02:59,345 --> 00:03:04,184 Somehow, I had done something to him. 29 00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:07,728 I remember Ron was clean-cut. 30 00:03:07,729 --> 00:03:10,772 He was a good employee, he was a hard worker. 31 00:03:10,773 --> 00:03:13,358 I later heard he was a gay guy, 32 00:03:13,359 --> 00:03:16,486 but I don't care if a guy's a gay guy. Big deal. 33 00:03:16,487 --> 00:03:18,280 It means I don't tie my shoes in front of him. 34 00:03:18,281 --> 00:03:19,699 Okay, that's fine. 35 00:03:21,451 --> 00:03:24,412 I can't think of one bad thing I ever heard about Ron. 36 00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:27,665 Why would I want to kill him? 37 00:03:28,666 --> 00:03:30,835 Seriously? You know. 38 00:03:34,505 --> 00:03:36,507 This man has no conscience. 39 00:03:39,385 --> 00:03:42,513 He deserved to be locked up for life. 40 00:03:44,432 --> 00:03:46,559 For life. That's where he belongs. 41 00:03:55,735 --> 00:03:59,404 Good evening, I'm Ted Koppel, and this is Nightline. 42 00:03:59,405 --> 00:04:02,242 I don't even know if I've got my husband's ashes. 43 00:04:03,534 --> 00:04:05,369 Let alone, I know that they mutilated him 44 00:04:05,370 --> 00:04:08,665 to get the corneas, but I don't even know that it's his ashes that I've got. 45 00:04:11,584 --> 00:04:12,960 From California, a story 46 00:04:12,961 --> 00:04:15,295 that sounds like a plot from a horror movie. 47 00:04:15,296 --> 00:04:18,966 A ghastly tale of funeral attendants who allegedly dismembered bodies, 48 00:04:18,967 --> 00:04:20,385 secretly sold human organs. 49 00:04:21,427 --> 00:04:25,430 32-year-old David Sconce and his parents, Jerry and Laurieanne Lamb Sconce, 50 00:04:25,431 --> 00:04:30,144 who own the mortuary, face trial beginning later this year on 68 counts. 51 00:04:31,145 --> 00:04:33,897 All the stories about me and my parents, 52 00:04:33,898 --> 00:04:36,150 that was sensationalized to the max. 53 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,947 There was a bad story about me every day in the news. 54 00:04:42,282 --> 00:04:43,740 The cremation business 55 00:04:43,741 --> 00:04:46,827 was a goldmine for the owners of Lamb's. 56 00:04:46,828 --> 00:04:50,707 It was such a gut-churning, emotional kind of a case. 57 00:04:52,375 --> 00:04:56,004 Maybe part of it was irrational. Maybe, just maybe. 58 00:04:57,005 --> 00:05:01,258 What better way to vilify a guy than to compare him to Hitler? 59 00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:03,177 Come on. The all-time bad guy. 60 00:05:08,141 --> 00:05:11,268 I'm innocent of everything that I'm being accused of. 61 00:05:11,269 --> 00:05:13,854 The guilt I focus on myself 62 00:05:13,855 --> 00:05:17,566 might be for me not being on top of situations 63 00:05:17,567 --> 00:05:21,028 as much as I should have been, simply because I was overwhelmed 64 00:05:21,029 --> 00:05:23,072 with the number of things I had going. 65 00:05:26,492 --> 00:05:29,619 The preliminary hearing in the Lamb Funeral Home case 66 00:05:29,620 --> 00:05:32,998 was the longest preliminary hearing 67 00:05:32,999 --> 00:05:36,460 in the history of Pasadena, encompassing six months-- 68 00:05:36,461 --> 00:05:39,464 a little more-- and 99 witnesses. 69 00:05:42,258 --> 00:05:45,470 It was a number of counts, a litany of 'em. 70 00:05:46,721 --> 00:05:48,805 Most were for the mortuary. 71 00:05:48,806 --> 00:05:51,601 A couple of 'em in there dealt with robbery and assault. 72 00:05:52,685 --> 00:05:55,188 Maybe 80% of 'em were misdemeanors. 73 00:05:56,230 --> 00:05:59,066 You know, it just seemed like it would never end. 74 00:05:59,067 --> 00:06:04,571 We're charging 26 counts of taking brains, hearts, and lungs 75 00:06:04,572 --> 00:06:08,659 from cadavers without the permission from the next of kin. 76 00:06:10,328 --> 00:06:12,580 Walt Lewis, the district attorney... 77 00:06:13,664 --> 00:06:17,627 he kept bringing in witness after witness after witness. 78 00:06:23,508 --> 00:06:27,427 So, I did it, but I didn't want to, 'cause I knew he was in a lot of trouble. 79 00:06:27,428 --> 00:06:29,388 You know, he was getting ready to take the blunt 80 00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:31,432 of whatever it was going on, it was gonna be his fault. 81 00:06:35,478 --> 00:06:41,317 When they put Danny Galambos on the stand, this big, hulking, huge guy... 82 00:06:42,693 --> 00:06:44,778 Walt Lewis, "Are you scared of David Sconce?" 83 00:06:44,779 --> 00:06:49,283 And Daniel Galambos goes, "Oh, yeah. Oh, he used to be almost as big as me." 84 00:06:51,369 --> 00:06:52,869 And I'm thinking, wow. 85 00:06:52,870 --> 00:06:56,666 I couldn't laugh in the courtroom, but I wanted to. I wanted to. 86 00:06:58,292 --> 00:07:00,460 All these former employees testified against me 87 00:07:00,461 --> 00:07:03,338 because it was "Testify against David, 88 00:07:03,339 --> 00:07:06,050 or you're going to jail." That's what it was. 89 00:07:07,135 --> 00:07:11,264 So, none of those guys went to jail. None of 'em did. 90 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,017 I gave my testimony. I had to do it. 91 00:07:16,018 --> 00:07:19,689 And it was partially to kinda clean my slate a little bit. 92 00:07:21,107 --> 00:07:26,279 And I said, David Sconce was a dark, bad guy. 93 00:07:28,281 --> 00:07:30,407 They would ask me questions. 94 00:07:30,408 --> 00:07:34,744 David Sconce always sat by his dad, you know, and Laurieanne. 95 00:07:34,745 --> 00:07:38,374 They're all three looking at me, you know. Every one of 'em. 96 00:07:39,625 --> 00:07:42,879 Evil eyes and just, their eyes were right at you. 97 00:07:44,338 --> 00:07:46,214 It was kinda scary. 98 00:07:46,215 --> 00:07:49,259 I always wondered if they would do anything to hurt me 99 00:07:49,260 --> 00:07:51,094 for testifying against them. 100 00:07:51,095 --> 00:07:53,763 Shoot me on the freeway or something, you know. 101 00:07:53,764 --> 00:07:56,350 Break into my home and stab me or something. 102 00:07:58,853 --> 00:08:01,438 But I felt relieved in a way 103 00:08:01,439 --> 00:08:04,399 that I'm gonna be able to tell the truth, 104 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,985 you know, 'cause this is not right, this is inhumane. 105 00:08:06,986 --> 00:08:10,280 And when I went to court, I was thinking of the families, 106 00:08:10,281 --> 00:08:12,950 'cause some of the family members were there at the courthouse. 107 00:08:18,331 --> 00:08:21,292 When it came time to testify... 108 00:08:22,627 --> 00:08:26,339 my lawyer, he said, "Now, are you ready, and are you calm?" 109 00:08:28,382 --> 00:08:30,217 I said, "Oh, yes, I'm very calm." 110 00:08:30,218 --> 00:08:32,427 What I want to do is jump over the table 111 00:08:32,428 --> 00:08:35,431 and grab him by the throat and shake him till he's dead. 112 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:39,518 When I was testifying in court, 113 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:42,688 I was walking in the halls, and I saw David Sconce with his attorney. 114 00:08:44,106 --> 00:08:46,191 Heard him say to his attorney, 115 00:08:46,192 --> 00:08:48,109 "I didn't do it, my guys did it." 116 00:08:48,110 --> 00:08:51,364 Well, I was livid. It was all I could do not to choke him right then and there. 117 00:08:53,032 --> 00:08:54,699 In this particular case, 118 00:08:54,700 --> 00:08:58,995 my client denies having engaged in either one of those two practices, 119 00:08:58,996 --> 00:09:01,540 either multiple cremations or commingling of the ashes. 120 00:09:01,541 --> 00:09:04,584 I mean, he's not saying he had permission. He's just saying that he never did it. 121 00:09:04,585 --> 00:09:05,628 Right. 122 00:09:07,588 --> 00:09:11,508 I only had one experience going to a courthouse, with my sister, 123 00:09:11,509 --> 00:09:14,719 for, I believe it was a preliminary trial, 124 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:20,059 and the lawyers for the Lamb Funeral Home were really vicious with her. 125 00:09:21,561 --> 00:09:24,479 "Well, you read the contract, and why are you saying this?" 126 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,731 And you know, really, really adversarial to her. 127 00:09:26,732 --> 00:09:31,444 The body parts were removed, but with the consent of the next of kin. 128 00:09:31,445 --> 00:09:34,781 We have forms that the next of kin signed. 129 00:09:34,782 --> 00:09:37,659 They were very belligerent and battering, 130 00:09:37,660 --> 00:09:41,705 and it was this head-butting kind of situation. 131 00:09:41,706 --> 00:09:45,501 Are you kidding me? It was just unbelievable. 132 00:09:53,801 --> 00:09:55,511 David was in jail. 133 00:09:56,512 --> 00:09:59,472 And everybody kept telling me, "Don't worry about it. 134 00:09:59,473 --> 00:10:02,435 Don't worry about it. He'll be out, he'll come out." 135 00:10:05,021 --> 00:10:07,814 Things were getting worse-- his trial. 136 00:10:07,815 --> 00:10:10,775 I was running out of money. 137 00:10:10,776 --> 00:10:13,112 And I was a stay-at-home mom. 138 00:10:15,197 --> 00:10:19,576 So, I asked my in-laws, Laurieanne and Jerry Sconce, 139 00:10:19,577 --> 00:10:21,995 for a little help. 140 00:10:21,996 --> 00:10:25,875 And they said, "Well, you need to go on welfare." 141 00:10:29,003 --> 00:10:30,837 Nobody wanted to hear me. 142 00:10:30,838 --> 00:10:32,757 It was all about David... 143 00:10:33,883 --> 00:10:38,721 and getting money for attorneys and trying to get him out. 144 00:10:42,558 --> 00:10:46,812 David was on the news every single night. I couldn't get away from it. 145 00:10:49,857 --> 00:10:56,739 And I didn't know 90% of what was going on until I was hearing it on the news. 146 00:10:58,908 --> 00:11:00,326 I was devastated. 147 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:06,039 It's hard because you fall in love with a family, 148 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,501 and you wanna support, you wanna believe. 149 00:11:12,254 --> 00:11:14,715 Sitting through the trial is when I thought... 150 00:11:16,467 --> 00:11:18,678 Who is this? Who did I marry? 151 00:11:20,638 --> 00:11:24,183 David had so many felonies. 152 00:11:25,434 --> 00:11:29,271 I kept thinking, this is not David. David couldn't do this. 153 00:11:30,815 --> 00:11:33,567 Father of your kids, you want them to be innocent. 154 00:11:35,778 --> 00:11:40,324 So, when they started talking about murder... 155 00:11:43,703 --> 00:11:48,040 I didn't believe it. I didn't think that he was capable. 156 00:11:52,128 --> 00:11:56,548 When David would say to someone, "I'm going to kill you," 157 00:11:56,549 --> 00:12:01,302 or he would say to somebody else, "I'm gonna kill this other person," 158 00:12:01,303 --> 00:12:04,807 people took him seriously, very seriously. 159 00:12:06,016 --> 00:12:09,854 He always carried a gun, sometimes carried two guns. 160 00:12:11,856 --> 00:12:15,609 The thing is, he was always threatening to kill people. 161 00:12:25,244 --> 00:12:29,832 He almost routinely threatened to kill his employees. 162 00:12:31,792 --> 00:12:33,501 Throw 'em up against the wall, 163 00:12:33,502 --> 00:12:35,336 put his hands around their throats, you know, 164 00:12:35,337 --> 00:12:38,507 "I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna fuckin' kill you, man." 165 00:12:41,719 --> 00:12:45,306 By all these accounts, he was a dangerous person. 166 00:12:47,391 --> 00:12:51,103 And he made plans to kill his competitors. 167 00:12:54,815 --> 00:12:57,276 The case that was going on in Pasadena... 168 00:12:58,319 --> 00:13:02,656 all of a sudden, I got two detectives pulling in. 169 00:13:04,033 --> 00:13:07,535 They said, "We have two men in our custody 170 00:13:07,536 --> 00:13:11,916 that said Dave Sconce hired them to kill you." 171 00:13:15,377 --> 00:13:18,630 I had bought the Cremation Society of California-- 172 00:13:18,631 --> 00:13:20,090 that was the name of the company. 173 00:13:21,884 --> 00:13:25,971 Dave was pissed off at me because he wanted to buy the business. 174 00:14:13,477 --> 00:14:16,479 I thank God how lucky I was. 175 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,652 Because, you know, I would sit and think, "I could have been dead." 176 00:14:23,362 --> 00:14:25,322 Maybe not hanging from my neck... 177 00:14:26,323 --> 00:14:27,658 or with poison. 178 00:14:28,826 --> 00:14:30,578 But it came very close. 179 00:14:31,912 --> 00:14:34,039 And all because of some criminal. 180 00:14:36,876 --> 00:14:38,794 And nothing's gonna stand in his way. 181 00:14:41,255 --> 00:14:43,965 There are many threats that have been made in this case, 182 00:14:43,966 --> 00:14:47,218 and also actual assaults by people who are alleging 183 00:14:47,219 --> 00:14:48,804 that were hired by Mr. Sconce. 184 00:14:51,682 --> 00:14:56,144 Conspiracy of murder, there's some crap about that. 185 00:14:56,145 --> 00:14:59,064 That was kind of an ongoing claim. 186 00:15:01,025 --> 00:15:04,319 Walt Lewis, he just hated me. 187 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,487 You know, you feel that when you read people. 188 00:15:06,488 --> 00:15:10,909 He would put his finger up to his lips and he would have his arms folded, 189 00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:14,162 and he would just be doing this, looking at me. 190 00:15:14,163 --> 00:15:15,247 Just... 191 00:15:16,457 --> 00:15:19,084 Not even blinking looking at you. 192 00:15:20,669 --> 00:15:22,545 I just kinda thought he was out of his mind 193 00:15:22,546 --> 00:15:23,881 or he was obsessed with me. 194 00:15:26,842 --> 00:15:29,261 I was the judge during the preliminary hearing. 195 00:15:30,888 --> 00:15:33,514 And at some point, someone noticed 196 00:15:33,515 --> 00:15:36,184 the writing on the wall in the sheriff's department 197 00:15:36,185 --> 00:15:39,021 in Pasadena in the holding cell. 198 00:15:40,022 --> 00:15:41,773 They figured out that it was more than likely 199 00:15:41,774 --> 00:15:43,901 that David Sconce wrote it. 200 00:15:45,653 --> 00:15:47,363 "Lewis will die," quote-unquote. 201 00:15:49,823 --> 00:15:51,991 They found four inmates that had been approached 202 00:15:51,992 --> 00:15:54,536 by David Sconce to kill Walt Lewis. 203 00:15:58,374 --> 00:16:00,249 No! No. 204 00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:04,629 No, I wrote "Lewis will die of AIDS" on the wall, 205 00:16:04,630 --> 00:16:07,006 because he's so emaciated. 206 00:16:07,007 --> 00:16:10,177 And I thought, why, you know, why has he got this out for me? 207 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,974 But it didn't say "Lewis will die." It said "Lewis will die of AIDS." 208 00:16:19,311 --> 00:16:22,689 The ends justify the means, as far as David was concerned. 209 00:16:22,690 --> 00:16:26,944 Didn't matter what it was, who it was, or how much it cost, "Just do it." 210 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,951 And so, then it went to Superior Court 211 00:16:34,952 --> 00:16:38,831 where his mother and his father would be tried separately. 212 00:16:39,873 --> 00:16:43,543 I'll always remember that when they walked out of my courtroom, 213 00:16:43,544 --> 00:16:46,838 Laurieanne turned and very loudly said, 214 00:16:46,839 --> 00:16:50,634 "We haven't gotten justice here. We'll get justice somewhere else." 215 00:16:58,892 --> 00:17:01,477 When our trial started, 216 00:17:01,478 --> 00:17:05,774 I had never heard of the Lamb Funeral Home or the Sconces. 217 00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:11,195 So, upon hearing the details of what the trial was gonna be, 218 00:17:11,196 --> 00:17:13,157 I was like, "Oh, my God." 219 00:17:14,575 --> 00:17:16,368 Do people really do this? 220 00:17:17,745 --> 00:17:21,831 The father, Jerry, I didn't trust him. 221 00:17:21,832 --> 00:17:25,794 He just had the appearance of being shady. 222 00:17:27,421 --> 00:17:30,049 But the mom, Laurieanne, was different. 223 00:17:32,176 --> 00:17:36,013 She always looked so innocent. 224 00:17:37,681 --> 00:17:40,768 She just reminds you of a librarian. 225 00:17:42,478 --> 00:17:46,774 I testified to my findings, and they were irrefutable. 226 00:17:47,941 --> 00:17:51,945 We knew that Laurieanne had embezzled a lot of money. 227 00:17:55,365 --> 00:17:58,077 She was sitting up at the table with the attorney. 228 00:17:59,453 --> 00:18:01,621 She's got this aura. I mean, I don't know. 229 00:18:01,622 --> 00:18:03,539 It's like somebody standing behind her with a flashlight. 230 00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:05,667 I mean, it's just the glow. 231 00:18:07,002 --> 00:18:09,754 And once again, "I didn't do anything wrong. 232 00:18:09,755 --> 00:18:12,632 "All I wanted to do was just help these families and... 233 00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:14,467 I'm so sorry, I'm just--" 234 00:18:14,468 --> 00:18:15,844 you know, just-- I don't know. 235 00:18:18,931 --> 00:18:22,935 She would have given Meryl Streep a run for her money. 236 00:18:25,687 --> 00:18:31,859 The defense for Jerry and Laurieanne was that the son had incorporated them 237 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:36,031 without their will into these illegal activities. 238 00:18:38,367 --> 00:18:40,535 David had made them do it, 239 00:18:40,536 --> 00:18:43,122 that they were essentially victimized by their son. 240 00:18:49,503 --> 00:18:51,796 My parents were part of everything 241 00:18:51,797 --> 00:18:53,924 that was going on there at the funeral home. 242 00:18:54,925 --> 00:18:56,217 But you know what? 243 00:18:56,218 --> 00:18:59,555 They were never anything but good to me, ever. 244 00:19:01,181 --> 00:19:03,182 So, I did essentially lie about that 245 00:19:03,183 --> 00:19:05,685 and say they didn't know anything about it. 246 00:19:05,686 --> 00:19:08,396 I tried to fall on my spear 247 00:19:08,397 --> 00:19:10,440 because I was trying to protect 'em. 248 00:19:12,526 --> 00:19:14,153 That's important to me. 249 00:19:15,863 --> 00:19:19,116 They really tried to make us believe it was all about David. 250 00:19:20,534 --> 00:19:26,707 But the evidence was overwhelming that they were completely involved. 251 00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:32,587 The way I recall it, they would have a document 252 00:19:32,588 --> 00:19:34,463 that the family would have to sign 253 00:19:34,464 --> 00:19:38,802 to release the body to the funeral home to be cremated. 254 00:19:40,220 --> 00:19:46,268 There was a point where they had changed some of the language on the document. 255 00:19:47,769 --> 00:19:50,897 There was a line that was added. 256 00:19:50,898 --> 00:19:53,774 It was like in the middle of the paragraph 257 00:19:53,775 --> 00:19:57,778 that would pretty much give permission for them 258 00:19:57,779 --> 00:20:04,661 to remove organs without the families knowing that that's what they were doing. 259 00:20:06,747 --> 00:20:08,081 It was horrible. 260 00:20:11,001 --> 00:20:15,254 And then, it came to light that sometimes Laurieanne 261 00:20:15,255 --> 00:20:18,884 was actually forging the signatures. 262 00:20:20,844 --> 00:20:23,387 During the trial, expert witnesses 263 00:20:23,388 --> 00:20:27,099 determined that it was the handwriting of Laurieanne 264 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:29,186 on many of the release forms. 265 00:20:30,020 --> 00:20:33,941 And at one point, she even misspelled the relative's name. 266 00:20:35,025 --> 00:20:38,111 I mean, how does a relative spell his own name incorrectly? 267 00:20:38,946 --> 00:20:41,907 When Laurieanne got in trouble for forgery... 268 00:20:42,908 --> 00:20:45,702 she said she didn't know what she was doing. 269 00:20:49,206 --> 00:20:52,750 She was controlling, told everybody what to do, 270 00:20:52,751 --> 00:20:54,085 all the time. 271 00:20:54,086 --> 00:20:57,631 I think Laurieanne was the mastermind of the whole family. 272 00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:07,056 It's so sad that there are folks out there 273 00:21:07,057 --> 00:21:11,311 who would take advantage of people who are grieving. 274 00:21:13,063 --> 00:21:15,940 I remember one of the families 275 00:21:15,941 --> 00:21:22,030 whose loved one's heart was removed without her knowing. 276 00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:25,617 And she lost it. 277 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:28,661 She lost it on the stand 'cause it was-- 278 00:21:28,662 --> 00:21:32,833 and I'm getting emotional too, but it was devastating. 279 00:21:35,043 --> 00:21:38,547 I have to admit to you, when we were deliberating... 280 00:21:40,007 --> 00:21:41,383 my thought was, 281 00:21:42,134 --> 00:21:44,553 I hope these people get life. 282 00:21:56,273 --> 00:21:59,276 They only got, like, three years. 283 00:22:03,572 --> 00:22:07,492 You see, I'm speechless, because it's like, really? 284 00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:10,328 Sorry, sweetie. 285 00:22:10,329 --> 00:22:15,708 After cheating families for years, dishonoring them. 286 00:22:15,709 --> 00:22:19,420 20,000 families that this happened to, 287 00:22:19,421 --> 00:22:21,631 and all they got was three years? 288 00:22:22,758 --> 00:22:24,760 No. No justice. 289 00:22:45,781 --> 00:22:48,742 ...when I heard that Laurieanne and Jerry both went to the county jail. 290 00:22:49,284 --> 00:22:50,285 I couldn't believe it. 291 00:22:50,660 --> 00:22:52,286 I know that must have been hell. 292 00:22:52,287 --> 00:22:54,497 I know, 'cause I've been in the county jail enough. 293 00:22:54,498 --> 00:22:56,666 And his dad lost all his hair. Jerry lost all his hair! 294 00:22:58,585 --> 00:23:01,796 You know what I mean? This experience just killed them. 295 00:23:01,797 --> 00:23:03,924 It took all the good out of them. 296 00:23:04,174 --> 00:23:05,966 Man, people can say whatever they want to say, 297 00:23:05,967 --> 00:23:08,260 but to me they didn't deserve to go there. 298 00:23:08,261 --> 00:23:10,180 Especially Laurieanne, she's such a nice lady. 299 00:23:19,147 --> 00:23:23,859 As this case wound its way through the courts, it was just a bizarre 300 00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:27,780 and sort of nightmarish kind of story. 301 00:23:27,781 --> 00:23:30,449 But it was easy to forget 302 00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:32,494 that the people at the center of this case... 303 00:23:33,578 --> 00:23:35,371 David Sconce's mother and father, 304 00:23:35,372 --> 00:23:37,707 even though they were convicted of all these crimes... 305 00:23:38,708 --> 00:23:40,085 they were well-known in Pasadena. 306 00:23:42,796 --> 00:23:48,301 The Lamb family were exactly part of old Pasadena. 307 00:23:49,428 --> 00:23:52,597 It was a community with a long history... 308 00:23:53,974 --> 00:23:56,309 filled with old families 309 00:23:57,227 --> 00:24:00,814 and mansions that exude a sense of wealth. 310 00:24:02,232 --> 00:24:05,277 And I think David grew up with that mentality. 311 00:24:09,614 --> 00:24:12,492 When David's trial came up in court... 312 00:24:13,493 --> 00:24:17,788 my impression of him was that he was blonde, he was big. 313 00:24:17,789 --> 00:24:20,667 He looked like the ex-football player that he was. 314 00:24:22,711 --> 00:24:27,548 And he'd carried himself with a sense of entitlement, 315 00:24:27,549 --> 00:24:29,550 that he was not a criminal, 316 00:24:29,551 --> 00:24:33,763 but an upstanding citizen of old-line Pasadena. 317 00:24:36,057 --> 00:24:39,269 I was surprised to hear what happened in this case. 318 00:24:41,062 --> 00:24:44,273 David's judge dismissed many of the charges 319 00:24:44,274 --> 00:24:46,735 that I had ordered him to be held to answer on... 320 00:24:47,819 --> 00:24:50,280 including charges of murder conspiracy. 321 00:24:53,533 --> 00:24:55,952 I got lucky and I got a better judge. 322 00:24:57,204 --> 00:24:59,664 And he dismissed half of the counts. 323 00:25:01,249 --> 00:25:04,503 I had to say "guilty" in court to what was left. 324 00:25:05,587 --> 00:25:07,172 And he gave me five years. 325 00:25:10,133 --> 00:25:13,260 The District Attorney's sitting down, just kinda going like... 326 00:25:13,261 --> 00:25:14,471 Hand over his face. 327 00:25:17,891 --> 00:25:20,059 The judge had a lot of discretion. 328 00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:24,898 He used it, and David benefited by it. It's unfortunate. 329 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:29,986 More than the deal of the century, I think. 330 00:25:33,532 --> 00:25:38,203 What people were talking about was, "Oh, he got away with almost everything." 331 00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:44,501 A lot of people were very disillusioned with the whole proceeding. 332 00:25:45,794 --> 00:25:48,004 But it wasn't the end. 333 00:25:49,256 --> 00:25:52,341 Prosecutors were still trying to charge David 334 00:25:52,342 --> 00:25:54,928 with Tim Waters' murder. 335 00:26:03,853 --> 00:26:08,775 But the Waters thing seemed pretty clear-cut. 336 00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:14,488 More and more witnesses at the jail 337 00:26:14,489 --> 00:26:18,535 said David told them he poisoned him with oleander. 338 00:26:20,787 --> 00:26:24,207 Poison had been found in Waters' system. 339 00:26:30,171 --> 00:26:31,881 While I'm in prison... 340 00:26:33,133 --> 00:26:36,427 I get a letter from Roger Diamond, my attorney, 341 00:26:36,428 --> 00:26:38,805 about the ridiculous Waters case. 342 00:26:40,265 --> 00:26:43,768 He says, "Well, they filed a death penalty case on you." 343 00:26:44,769 --> 00:26:47,188 And I go, "Oh, wait a minute, what?" 344 00:27:06,958 --> 00:27:11,296 Toxicology is the study of poisons in living systems. 345 00:27:13,798 --> 00:27:16,884 Every modern hospital in the world, 346 00:27:16,885 --> 00:27:19,470 if you will, has screening techniques 347 00:27:19,471 --> 00:27:23,307 for measuring the drugs or metabolites in a person, 348 00:27:23,308 --> 00:27:26,268 whether they're at the proper therapeutic levels 349 00:27:26,269 --> 00:27:28,146 or whether at toxic levels. 350 00:27:31,149 --> 00:27:34,401 In 1991, I learned through a colleague 351 00:27:34,402 --> 00:27:39,239 that there was a court case going on in the California area 352 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,701 over a poisoning by oleander. 353 00:27:44,537 --> 00:27:46,872 Mr. Waters was the first one I had heard of 354 00:27:46,873 --> 00:27:49,959 or knew of to have poisoning by oleander. 355 00:27:51,628 --> 00:27:55,422 A few years earlier, a toxicologist 356 00:27:55,423 --> 00:28:00,470 had concluded that the tissue samples from Mr. Waters had oleander in it. 357 00:28:02,097 --> 00:28:05,974 Both the defense and the prosecution had reason to believe 358 00:28:05,975 --> 00:28:09,020 that they needed more definitive results. 359 00:28:10,021 --> 00:28:13,149 And so, it was at that point that they contact me. 360 00:28:15,068 --> 00:28:19,489 During the Tim Waters death penalty case that I was charged with... 361 00:28:21,157 --> 00:28:26,371 their theory was that I poisoned Tim Waters with oleander. 362 00:28:27,789 --> 00:28:32,794 They'd said it was a derivative as if it had been distilled oleandrin. 363 00:28:34,462 --> 00:28:36,840 I said, this is absolutely impossible. 364 00:28:38,049 --> 00:28:42,469 I told Roger Diamond, my attorney, I said "Roger," I said, "dig him up." 365 00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:45,723 He goes, "What?" Roger balked at it. 366 00:28:45,724 --> 00:28:48,392 And Roger said, "Oh, David, what if it's a false positive? 367 00:28:48,393 --> 00:28:51,562 "What if they find something that might not be that, 368 00:28:51,563 --> 00:28:53,021 but they claim that's it?" 369 00:28:53,022 --> 00:28:55,607 I said, "Roger, they're claiming I killed a guy 370 00:28:55,608 --> 00:28:57,609 "that I've never seen, and they don't have evidence 371 00:28:57,610 --> 00:29:00,320 that I've ever even been around this guy, ever." 372 00:29:00,321 --> 00:29:02,282 I said, "Dig him up!" 373 00:29:08,872 --> 00:29:11,206 The deceased, we learned was buried 374 00:29:11,207 --> 00:29:14,169 in an above-ground casket at room temperature. 375 00:29:15,170 --> 00:29:18,506 When you do an autopsy, you remove the organs from the body. 376 00:29:19,549 --> 00:29:24,052 And his organs, I was told were stored in plastic bags. 377 00:29:24,053 --> 00:29:26,138 I don't know whether they were Ziploc bags or what, 378 00:29:26,139 --> 00:29:29,683 but plastic bags beside his body in the casket, 379 00:29:29,684 --> 00:29:32,311 and that that's where the samples came from 380 00:29:32,312 --> 00:29:35,022 that we received at Cornell. 381 00:29:35,023 --> 00:29:41,153 Mr. Waters' liver was best described by-- I would say by, as chocolate pudding. 382 00:29:41,154 --> 00:29:43,906 It was a mush. It was badly decayed. 383 00:29:43,907 --> 00:29:47,451 So, we rolled up our sleeves and used some technology 384 00:29:47,452 --> 00:29:50,330 we were in the process of developing at the time. 385 00:29:51,831 --> 00:29:53,541 A tandem mass spectrometer... 386 00:29:54,709 --> 00:29:58,379 to look for oleandrin as well as oleandrigenin. 387 00:29:59,839 --> 00:30:03,717 Those chemicals analyzed in that way have their own fingerprint. 388 00:30:03,718 --> 00:30:06,386 You better have that fingerprint from the mass spectrometer 389 00:30:06,387 --> 00:30:07,889 to be sure you're right. 390 00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:14,561 Ex-mortician David Sconce, the man who is said to have bragged 391 00:30:14,562 --> 00:30:16,939 about poisoning and killing his arch-rival, 392 00:30:16,940 --> 00:30:18,899 mortician Timothy Waters, 393 00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:21,443 walked into court to hear two words: 394 00:30:21,444 --> 00:30:23,195 "Case dismissed." 395 00:30:23,196 --> 00:30:27,867 No oleander. Nothing. Zero. Zippo. The man died of a heart attack. 396 00:30:33,748 --> 00:30:35,625 After all the work that we did... 397 00:30:37,126 --> 00:30:38,710 our findings were negative. 398 00:30:38,711 --> 00:30:41,672 We did not find any oleander or oleandrigenin 399 00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:43,633 in Mr. Waters' tissue. 400 00:30:48,012 --> 00:30:52,891 One possible explanation is that this badly decayed sample 401 00:30:52,892 --> 00:30:56,563 was so chemically complex, that it didn't work very well. 402 00:30:58,565 --> 00:31:00,399 I gotta tell you, we tried hard, 403 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,068 but we did not see it. 404 00:31:03,069 --> 00:31:06,363 The motion and application to dismiss the action is granted, 405 00:31:06,364 --> 00:31:09,617 and the defendant is just-- is discharged. 406 00:31:13,121 --> 00:31:17,250 I don't care to shake the hand of a man I believe is a cold-blooded murderer. 407 00:31:21,004 --> 00:31:25,507 I'm elated that they have finally seen the light. 408 00:31:25,508 --> 00:31:27,342 - I'm an innocent man. - Did you ever think 409 00:31:27,343 --> 00:31:29,595 you would see this day that you would walk out? 410 00:31:29,596 --> 00:31:32,599 I always knew I would walk out. I'm innocent. 411 00:31:39,105 --> 00:31:43,818 It's my unofficial opinion that David Sconce is guilty. 412 00:31:48,531 --> 00:31:51,492 The symptoms that Mr. Waters displayed... 413 00:31:52,493 --> 00:31:55,871 all the other details-- the book that was found-- 414 00:31:55,872 --> 00:31:59,167 all is circumstantial evidence, granted. 415 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,005 But knowing the poor nature of his character, if you will, 416 00:32:05,006 --> 00:32:08,468 it seems entirely possible or likely that he did this. 417 00:32:10,345 --> 00:32:12,263 It's a shame he got away with it. 418 00:32:18,186 --> 00:32:21,396 Oh, the test results prove that this was never in his body, 419 00:32:21,397 --> 00:32:24,943 never could have been there, and what the hell are you talking about? 420 00:32:25,985 --> 00:32:30,156 Year of my life sitting in the county jail to hear all that. 421 00:32:33,159 --> 00:32:35,536 I was just really relieved. 422 00:32:36,704 --> 00:32:41,249 But I just found out that night before that I'd lost my dad's dad. 423 00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:43,044 He died. 424 00:32:44,712 --> 00:32:46,838 So, I called, and 425 00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:50,051 I talked to my grandmother, Mommy Thais, and... 426 00:32:57,392 --> 00:33:00,520 You know, he's gone, that's it. 427 00:33:01,437 --> 00:33:06,901 You know, he's gone, and I told her, I said, "It's okay," you know. 428 00:33:07,986 --> 00:33:10,946 "I'm coming home." And, you know, 429 00:33:10,947 --> 00:33:13,949 that's all she kept saying, was, "He's gone." 430 00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:15,243 And... 431 00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:20,331 You know, I left it alone. 432 00:33:21,082 --> 00:33:24,043 Friday goes by, and then she died on Satur-- 433 00:33:24,794 --> 00:33:26,796 Excuse me. She died on Saturday. 434 00:33:28,548 --> 00:33:30,841 Yeah. Nothing wrong with her. 435 00:33:30,842 --> 00:33:32,010 Nothing. 436 00:33:33,136 --> 00:33:36,347 And, you know, she was a big part of my life. 437 00:33:39,809 --> 00:33:43,520 You know, it was just, there wasn't anything wrong with her. 438 00:33:43,521 --> 00:33:46,815 She married for like 61 years, and she just died. 439 00:33:46,816 --> 00:33:48,567 Gave up. 440 00:33:48,568 --> 00:33:50,610 And, you know. 441 00:33:50,611 --> 00:33:53,948 Sorry, that was sad. I was just really sad. 442 00:33:56,242 --> 00:33:58,911 Both of 'em were just-- two caskets right there. 443 00:34:00,204 --> 00:34:03,249 Can't say I'm over it. Don't think I'll ever be over it. 444 00:34:08,713 --> 00:34:10,673 After the Tim Waters trial... 445 00:34:11,799 --> 00:34:12,967 it was all over. 446 00:34:14,385 --> 00:34:19,473 A lot of people wanted to see this family in jail 447 00:34:19,474 --> 00:34:21,976 paying for all of the things that they did. 448 00:34:23,561 --> 00:34:25,980 But at the end of the day, they were free. 449 00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:31,569 I don't know how they could live with themselves. 450 00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:05,895 After he had gotten out... 451 00:35:07,188 --> 00:35:10,525 we lived at the vacation house in Lake Mohave. 452 00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:13,610 I just wanted a clean start. 453 00:35:13,611 --> 00:35:17,031 I didn't want to think about anything that happened in California. 454 00:35:17,907 --> 00:35:19,659 We can start living a normal life. 455 00:35:21,577 --> 00:35:24,162 Laurieanne and Jerry were out of jail. 456 00:35:24,163 --> 00:35:25,998 They were living right next door. 457 00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:31,545 And David had gotten a job working for LTI. 458 00:35:31,546 --> 00:35:35,550 It was Laughlin Transit, and he was driving buses. 459 00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:43,807 You cross over the bridge and you go down, 460 00:35:43,808 --> 00:35:47,728 and you pick up people that wanted to come to Laughlin to gamble. 461 00:35:50,773 --> 00:35:53,275 Well, they gave him a stack of bus tickets and said, 462 00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:56,444 "You can sell these tickets for $20 apiece." 463 00:35:56,445 --> 00:35:58,948 Well, he decided to make his own tickets... 464 00:36:02,326 --> 00:36:06,330 ...and sell his own tickets so he could make and keep the money. 465 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,709 Well, he got caught. 466 00:36:25,725 --> 00:36:27,559 Why? 467 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,022 Why would you think that that is gonna help you in any way? 468 00:36:35,151 --> 00:36:37,445 His mother said... 469 00:36:38,446 --> 00:36:39,947 "He got caught." 470 00:36:41,032 --> 00:36:42,783 So, they were aware of it too. 471 00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:48,247 Whose idea was it? Was it David's? Was it Laurieanne's? 472 00:36:48,956 --> 00:36:50,249 Was it Jerry? 473 00:36:51,876 --> 00:36:53,294 It's so... 474 00:37:01,093 --> 00:37:03,971 David went to jail again. 475 00:37:09,227 --> 00:37:12,604 You just really start thinking about your choices in life 476 00:37:12,605 --> 00:37:15,066 and who you pick. 477 00:37:21,447 --> 00:37:24,242 Barbara and I just kinda grew apart. 478 00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:27,160 You know, the only reason I divorced her 479 00:37:27,161 --> 00:37:29,120 was because when I was in prison in Arizona, 480 00:37:29,121 --> 00:37:30,872 she got herself a boyfriend. 481 00:37:30,873 --> 00:37:34,251 You know, that's the only reason. I couldn't trust her. 482 00:37:34,252 --> 00:37:35,920 You break my trust, that's it. 483 00:37:39,173 --> 00:37:41,300 There's anger, but... 484 00:37:42,593 --> 00:37:44,053 you gotta put that stuff away. 485 00:37:45,263 --> 00:37:47,265 Say a prayer and move on. 486 00:37:51,394 --> 00:37:53,312 Still hurts sometimes. 487 00:37:56,357 --> 00:37:59,901 After he did some time in Arizona, 488 00:37:59,902 --> 00:38:04,115 David was supposed to keep his nose super clean. 489 00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:11,080 So, he walked away from that, but he didn't walk very far. 490 00:38:15,209 --> 00:38:18,170 He just kinda kept having legal issues... 491 00:38:19,255 --> 00:38:21,007 with his probation. 492 00:38:23,426 --> 00:38:26,511 Eventually, he was convicted of stealing a gun 493 00:38:26,512 --> 00:38:29,807 from somebody up in Montana, and selling the gun. 494 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,103 He was a felon, he wasn't allowed to have a gun. 495 00:38:36,272 --> 00:38:41,359 In 2012, they gave me a federal firearms charge 496 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,903 a year after I get rid of a gun that I never fired, 497 00:38:43,904 --> 00:38:45,488 that was given to me. 498 00:38:45,489 --> 00:38:48,451 'Cause I'm not a gun guy. I'm really not, never have been. 499 00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:55,708 California said that was a violation of my California probation. 500 00:38:56,792 --> 00:38:58,336 So, that's what got me here. 501 00:38:59,378 --> 00:39:00,963 Gave me 25-to-life. 502 00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:09,138 How does that happen? Who's calling the shots with that one? Hm? 503 00:39:10,306 --> 00:39:11,432 Really. 504 00:39:16,354 --> 00:39:18,939 And finally, they found me parole-suitable. 505 00:39:20,274 --> 00:39:21,400 So, here we are. 506 00:39:34,789 --> 00:39:36,831 I have theories 507 00:39:36,832 --> 00:39:40,461 on why the things happened the way they did to me. 508 00:39:44,965 --> 00:39:49,677 David and I used to literally spend hours talking in jail. 509 00:39:49,678 --> 00:39:54,474 And he had excuses for absolutely everything. 510 00:39:54,475 --> 00:39:57,102 Everything that he ever did in life 511 00:39:57,103 --> 00:40:00,856 that he failed at was always someone else's fault. 512 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,443 He's just the consummate victim. 513 00:40:05,444 --> 00:40:07,278 Had he been left alone, he would have been 514 00:40:07,279 --> 00:40:09,615 the mortician of the world. 515 00:40:11,909 --> 00:40:17,415 There's kind of a domino effect of events that led up to this, see? 516 00:40:19,792 --> 00:40:24,587 If my parents didn't tell me about the mortuary school, 517 00:40:24,588 --> 00:40:26,756 had they not thrown it out there, 518 00:40:26,757 --> 00:40:29,426 I would have gone to the Navy. That's what my plans were. 519 00:40:29,427 --> 00:40:32,137 It's fallback plans, 'cause I always wanted to teach. 520 00:40:32,138 --> 00:40:33,681 You know, I wanted to be a teacher. 521 00:40:34,890 --> 00:40:38,143 And everything would have been different if I would've just got that second year 522 00:40:38,144 --> 00:40:41,772 of, you know, eligibility playing football. 523 00:40:43,274 --> 00:40:45,733 But then I got injured, and so I didn't get it, 524 00:40:45,734 --> 00:40:47,570 so everything started. 525 00:40:52,783 --> 00:40:54,243 Nonexistent. 526 00:40:55,578 --> 00:40:58,247 Nonexistent. I've been abandoned. 527 00:41:03,752 --> 00:41:08,632 My grandfather, Lawrence Lamb, died of a brain tumor. 528 00:41:10,134 --> 00:41:15,222 In fact, my dad and I took care of Grandpa for like the last week of his life. 529 00:41:17,808 --> 00:41:21,145 My grandmother, Lucile, died a little while later. 530 00:41:24,106 --> 00:41:29,236 I was told about my dad's death by a friend of mine in prison. 531 00:41:30,321 --> 00:41:32,113 I wish I could have seen my dad. 532 00:41:32,114 --> 00:41:36,534 I wish I could have been there, you know, as he passed away. 533 00:41:36,535 --> 00:41:38,329 But I wasn't. 534 00:41:44,168 --> 00:41:47,962 My mother was always a good support system for me 535 00:41:47,963 --> 00:41:50,216 through the years of me being incarcerated. 536 00:41:52,718 --> 00:41:57,264 But after my dad died, everything stopped. 537 00:42:01,143 --> 00:42:04,230 I've never heard from her since. Not a word. 538 00:42:05,523 --> 00:42:07,191 Not a letter, nothing. 539 00:42:59,868 --> 00:43:01,160 Wow. 540 00:43:01,161 --> 00:43:04,789 Really? You want me to go there, huh? Well, you know what? 541 00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:08,626 I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, but everybody else knew I was. 542 00:43:08,627 --> 00:43:10,962 And, you know, I had drug use and stuff like that, 543 00:43:10,963 --> 00:43:12,256 and that didn't help. 544 00:43:32,818 --> 00:43:35,696 It was a part of my life that was a long time ago. 545 00:43:36,196 --> 00:43:37,697 And I would nev-- you couldn't pay me enough 546 00:43:37,698 --> 00:43:38,907 to do it again. 547 00:43:41,535 --> 00:43:43,537 Nobody got away scot-free. 548 00:43:44,246 --> 00:43:47,081 Everybody got something happening to them because of working there. 549 00:43:47,082 --> 00:43:48,500 We all paid the price for it. 550 00:43:54,214 --> 00:43:59,178 I'm the last guy standing from the Big Men Unlimited. 551 00:44:01,347 --> 00:44:03,264 Dave Edwards got hurt. 552 00:44:03,265 --> 00:44:06,184 He was getting blood transfusions 553 00:44:06,185 --> 00:44:09,605 and he acquired AIDS from those blood transfusions. 554 00:44:10,648 --> 00:44:14,860 And Danny died jumping out of a plane. 555 00:44:23,702 --> 00:44:27,706 You know what? I'm 64 years old, okay? 556 00:44:28,415 --> 00:44:30,500 I'm in the fourth quarter now, you know? 557 00:44:30,501 --> 00:44:33,337 It's not overtime yet, but you know, hey. 558 00:44:34,713 --> 00:44:38,091 I've had a good life, you know, I got my kids. 559 00:44:38,092 --> 00:44:40,093 You know, I'm okay. 560 00:44:40,094 --> 00:44:41,803 You can look back and say you would've done 561 00:44:41,804 --> 00:44:45,391 something different, but at this point, nah. 562 00:45:35,149 --> 00:45:37,609 For the history of mankind... 563 00:45:39,528 --> 00:45:43,197 treating the dead with some respect, you know, 564 00:45:43,198 --> 00:45:48,120 has been the way human beings have lived in all cultures. 565 00:45:50,289 --> 00:45:56,461 You could say that the David Sconce case was the ultimate incendiary point 566 00:45:56,462 --> 00:46:01,924 for which we now have massive regulations in funeral service practice, 567 00:46:01,925 --> 00:46:04,595 incredible rules regarding cremation... 568 00:46:05,888 --> 00:46:09,557 and more statutes than probably any other industry. 569 00:46:09,558 --> 00:46:12,185 So, there's more transparency, more clarity 570 00:46:12,186 --> 00:46:15,439 in the decision-making process for consumers. 571 00:46:18,108 --> 00:46:21,110 This case served a purpose because they got it 572 00:46:21,111 --> 00:46:24,030 on the record all of the things that they did, 573 00:46:24,031 --> 00:46:27,326 and as a result, there were laws that were passed. 574 00:46:29,369 --> 00:46:32,247 Laws that allow 'em to go in and inspect the crematories. 575 00:46:33,832 --> 00:46:36,668 And certain things became felonies. 576 00:46:40,339 --> 00:46:41,799 That's important. 577 00:46:43,425 --> 00:46:47,011 I would love to shout at the top of my lungs 578 00:46:47,012 --> 00:46:49,472 that it was one person, and this one person 579 00:46:49,473 --> 00:46:51,433 does not reflect all of us. 580 00:46:52,810 --> 00:46:56,562 The unfortunate reality is across the United States, 581 00:46:56,563 --> 00:47:00,150 we still see scandals involving cremation. 582 00:47:07,157 --> 00:47:12,454 David Sconce devastated the industry with what he did. 583 00:47:15,290 --> 00:47:16,750 And... 584 00:47:18,085 --> 00:47:20,045 families still don't trust. 585 00:47:24,466 --> 00:47:29,137 This is the Lamb Funeral Home everlasting legacy in my family. 586 00:47:30,848 --> 00:47:32,682 When my mother died, 587 00:47:32,683 --> 00:47:35,810 my husband went and watched her. 588 00:47:35,811 --> 00:47:40,816 They lifted the pine box, saw it was her, and he watched her being put into an oven. 589 00:47:43,277 --> 00:47:46,070 I mean, imagine physically watching that, 590 00:47:46,071 --> 00:47:49,532 you know, because he just was so traumatized, 591 00:47:49,533 --> 00:47:50,826 what had happened. 592 00:47:54,329 --> 00:47:56,039 And I felt terribly guilty. 593 00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,084 I was supposed to protect him. I was the oldest daughter. 594 00:48:00,085 --> 00:48:01,587 I took care of him. 595 00:48:03,338 --> 00:48:05,256 And it wasn't just my dad. 596 00:48:05,257 --> 00:48:08,509 There were 20,000 other people involved in this, and their families, 597 00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:10,220 and their children, and their grandchildren. 598 00:48:12,306 --> 00:48:13,724 And their loss. 599 00:48:15,058 --> 00:48:17,519 And their feelings of grief and... 600 00:48:18,770 --> 00:48:20,439 not having closure. 601 00:48:49,301 --> 00:48:51,762 You know, I was guilty of a lot of things. 602 00:48:53,138 --> 00:48:56,475 But when does the antipathy end? 603 00:48:57,935 --> 00:49:01,063 When is enough enough? How long do I have to be punished? 604 00:49:04,107 --> 00:49:06,192 You know, I went to prison. 605 00:49:06,193 --> 00:49:09,570 Everything happened to me bad. I lost pretty much everything. 606 00:49:09,571 --> 00:49:13,574 So, after that, I mean, what else are you looking for? 607 00:49:13,575 --> 00:49:15,410 Leave me alone. 608 00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:20,832 I can't change what happened, see? 609 00:49:22,626 --> 00:49:24,543 So, I move on. 610 00:49:24,544 --> 00:49:28,382 Sun comes up tomorrow irregardless, so that's it. 611 00:49:37,224 --> 00:49:38,225 Maybe. 612 00:49:42,479 --> 00:49:46,565 David is the type of person who believes that he's smarter 613 00:49:46,566 --> 00:49:48,402 than every other person in the room. 614 00:49:50,070 --> 00:49:53,864 When you get to jail, you're taught, you don't talk to anybody about your case, 615 00:49:53,865 --> 00:49:55,283 you know, you don't admit to shit. 616 00:49:56,952 --> 00:50:01,999 But David always felt a need to brag about his accomplishments. 617 00:50:03,417 --> 00:50:07,713 And he never figured out when to shut the fuck up. 618 00:50:10,924 --> 00:50:11,925 Alright. 619 00:50:13,051 --> 00:50:15,012 So, there was one night... 620 00:50:16,722 --> 00:50:19,182 I had to go to the cemetery with Barbara. 621 00:50:21,727 --> 00:50:25,022 I get out and I go to unlock the gate. 622 00:50:26,732 --> 00:50:28,399 And some kid jumps out of the weeds, 623 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,569 and he's got a nickel-plated thing right at my head. 624 00:50:31,570 --> 00:50:34,780 He says, "Give me your wallet, give me your watch." 625 00:50:34,781 --> 00:50:37,701 And Barbara's in the passenger seat watching this. 626 00:50:38,702 --> 00:50:40,911 And so, I said, "Look, man, I only got, like, 60 bucks," 627 00:50:40,912 --> 00:50:43,622 and I gave him my cheesy Casio watch. 628 00:50:43,623 --> 00:50:48,294 Barbara, God bless her, she's reaching over to my door 629 00:50:48,295 --> 00:50:50,921 because I always kept my nine-millimeter in there, 630 00:50:50,922 --> 00:50:53,425 'cause she's gonna come out and cap this guy. 631 00:50:54,676 --> 00:50:56,886 But the gun wasn't there because I had problems 632 00:50:56,887 --> 00:51:00,264 at the range with the Luger shells, the casings, 'cause they're too big. 633 00:51:00,265 --> 00:51:02,558 And so, it was out getting a ramp-and-throat done on it. 634 00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:04,936 I learned all this when I went through the stupid sheriffs. 635 00:51:09,441 --> 00:51:10,442 Mm. 636 00:51:11,693 --> 00:51:13,736 True story. I thought I was-- I was gonna die. 637 00:51:13,737 --> 00:51:14,905 I really did. 638 00:51:15,947 --> 00:51:18,950 I can tell you more of this, but I can't tell you on camera. 639 00:51:20,494 --> 00:51:21,661 Can't tell you. 640 00:51:23,455 --> 00:51:25,749 All I can say is, "You think I found that guy?" 641 00:51:33,757 --> 00:51:35,675 It's one of the things I can't talk about. 642 00:51:37,052 --> 00:51:40,222 The other thing I'll tell you about too, but can't talk about that either. 643 00:51:41,765 --> 00:51:44,267 Really, there's three of 'em altogether. 644 00:51:58,615 --> 00:52:00,367 Gotta promise not to tell on me. 645 00:52:03,411 --> 00:52:04,578 - Ah. - Yeah. 646 00:52:04,579 --> 00:52:05,914 What, the promise? 647 00:52:08,792 --> 00:52:09,960 Oh, yeah. 648 00:52:12,462 --> 00:52:13,629 - Okay. - Yeah. 649 00:52:13,630 --> 00:52:16,883 Nah, that's never gonna come back. Never gonna come back. 650 00:52:20,595 --> 00:52:21,888 Can't come back.