1 00:00:19,729 --> 00:00:22,398 [Ominous music plays] 2 00:00:22,481 --> 00:00:24,859 ♪♪ 3 00:00:24,942 --> 00:00:29,155 Something unusual happened to my daughter 4 00:00:29,238 --> 00:00:32,241 when she was probably about 8-years old. 5 00:00:34,201 --> 00:00:37,121 Wow. It's hard to talk about. 6 00:00:37,204 --> 00:00:39,707 Okay. Hold on. 7 00:00:39,790 --> 00:00:45,087 So my daughter said that there had been an apparition. 8 00:00:47,173 --> 00:00:50,342 [Male voice] [Singsongy voice] Christina. 9 00:00:50,426 --> 00:00:53,679 An apparition of a boy that came in her room. 10 00:00:55,347 --> 00:00:57,308 She said he was wearing these overalls. 11 00:00:57,391 --> 00:00:59,268 He had kind of an impish smile. 12 00:00:59,351 --> 00:01:01,353 ♪♪ 13 00:01:01,437 --> 00:01:03,898 [Ominous music plays] 14 00:01:03,981 --> 00:01:07,109 And what occurred was that this little boy 15 00:01:07,193 --> 00:01:09,653 would be transformed into this character 16 00:01:09,737 --> 00:01:11,655 that was horribly evil. 17 00:01:14,533 --> 00:01:15,910 [Laughs] 18 00:01:17,495 --> 00:01:18,996 He started to laugh. 19 00:01:19,079 --> 00:01:21,164 [Laughs] Go to the window. 20 00:01:21,248 --> 00:01:24,335 [Scherlacher] I thought maybe I heard something, 21 00:01:24,418 --> 00:01:26,086 something moving in her room. 22 00:01:26,170 --> 00:01:27,505 It's okay. 23 00:01:27,588 --> 00:01:29,173 And I got up out of my bed to look. 24 00:01:32,468 --> 00:01:33,928 Now fly. 25 00:01:34,011 --> 00:01:36,639 [Laughs] 26 00:01:36,722 --> 00:01:38,348 She was gonna kill herself. 27 00:01:38,432 --> 00:01:39,725 Christina! 28 00:01:41,977 --> 00:01:44,354 I grabbed her and had to, like, restrain her. 29 00:01:44,438 --> 00:01:45,940 Are you okay? 30 00:01:46,023 --> 00:01:48,359 She said, "The little boy says I have to kill myself." 31 00:01:48,442 --> 00:01:51,070 [Male voice laughs] 32 00:01:51,152 --> 00:01:53,447 I felt so powerless. 33 00:01:53,531 --> 00:01:54,907 In my faith, 34 00:01:54,990 --> 00:01:57,158 in Christ, and in my prayers, 35 00:01:57,243 --> 00:02:00,746 I knew I was dealing with hell itself. 36 00:02:00,830 --> 00:02:02,915 [eerie piano music playing] 37 00:02:02,998 --> 00:02:05,209 This was over 30 years ago. 38 00:02:05,292 --> 00:02:08,253 And my daughter grew up, of course. 39 00:02:08,336 --> 00:02:11,173 Whether a Satan exists is a matter of belief, 40 00:02:11,257 --> 00:02:13,342 but we are certain that Satanism exists. 41 00:02:13,425 --> 00:02:15,636 [Scherlacher] Recently she called me up and said, "Dad, 42 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:17,054 I watched this thing on YouTube -- 43 00:02:17,137 --> 00:02:18,806 'Geraldo Rivera.'" 44 00:02:18,889 --> 00:02:22,184 And our own Detective Hart was on that program. 45 00:02:22,268 --> 00:02:23,769 We came down here. 46 00:02:23,853 --> 00:02:26,105 We found Mrs. Sullivan laying on the floor. 47 00:02:26,188 --> 00:02:28,566 And there was this kid, Tom Sullivan. 48 00:02:28,649 --> 00:02:30,609 [Man] Tommy Sullivan had written this contract with the devil. 49 00:02:30,693 --> 00:02:32,111 [Scherlacher] She sees the face. 50 00:02:34,238 --> 00:02:36,991 And she recognizes him as the boy that showed up in her room. 51 00:02:38,909 --> 00:02:40,369 The same kind of smirk and everything. 52 00:02:40,452 --> 00:02:42,621 She said, "That's him." 53 00:02:42,704 --> 00:02:44,957 My daughter would have not recognized Tom 54 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,918 at the age of 8, because Tom had been dead for years already. 55 00:02:48,002 --> 00:02:50,504 She didn't know anything about Tom, 56 00:02:50,588 --> 00:02:52,631 and to this day, she will tell you... 57 00:02:52,715 --> 00:02:54,550 [Laughs] 58 00:02:54,633 --> 00:02:57,678 ..."The little boy that appeared in my room, 59 00:02:57,761 --> 00:02:59,805 that was Tommy Sullivan." 60 00:02:59,889 --> 00:03:01,265 [exhales] 61 00:03:01,348 --> 00:03:03,142 [ominous music plays] 62 00:03:03,225 --> 00:03:04,560 [laughs] 63 00:03:04,643 --> 00:03:07,104 ♪♪ 64 00:03:07,187 --> 00:03:09,148 [woman vocalizing] 65 00:03:09,231 --> 00:03:12,860 ♪♪ 66 00:03:12,943 --> 00:03:14,904 [fire crackling] 67 00:03:14,987 --> 00:03:19,742 ♪♪ 68 00:03:19,825 --> 00:03:21,535 [Indistinct whispering] 69 00:03:21,619 --> 00:03:25,079 ♪♪ 70 00:03:25,164 --> 00:03:27,166 [piano music playing] 71 00:03:27,249 --> 00:03:29,418 [Roth] When something traumatic happens, 72 00:03:29,501 --> 00:03:31,795 something you can't wrap your head around, 73 00:03:31,879 --> 00:03:34,548 it's natural to reach for the oldest story in the book... 74 00:03:36,383 --> 00:03:38,761 ...good vs. evil... 75 00:03:38,844 --> 00:03:40,971 God vs. the devil. 76 00:03:41,055 --> 00:03:46,393 It gives the horror a shape, a villain, something to blame. 77 00:03:46,477 --> 00:03:48,562 But that doesn't consider the real-world demons 78 00:03:48,646 --> 00:03:50,606 that live within us all. 79 00:03:50,689 --> 00:03:53,901 It's a shield against an even more violent foe. 80 00:03:53,984 --> 00:03:57,571 It's realizing that the monster was never hiding under the bed. 81 00:03:57,655 --> 00:04:00,699 It was always much closer than that. 82 00:04:00,783 --> 00:04:03,118 ♪♪ 83 00:04:03,202 --> 00:04:04,995 [Birds chirping] 84 00:04:08,874 --> 00:04:13,545 Everybody that I've ever talked to about Tommy 85 00:04:13,629 --> 00:04:18,007 and about the whole situation definitely has questions. 86 00:04:20,427 --> 00:04:22,846 The part that stood out to me the most 87 00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:25,975 was that he killed himself that way. 88 00:04:26,058 --> 00:04:27,851 Both of his wrists were slit. 89 00:04:27,935 --> 00:04:30,229 And then the way it was described to me 90 00:04:30,312 --> 00:04:34,274 is that from ear to ear he was slit, like, 91 00:04:34,358 --> 00:04:36,151 almost, like, basically through his throat. 92 00:04:36,235 --> 00:04:37,945 Like, it was deep. 93 00:04:38,028 --> 00:04:40,781 I had the exact same pocketknife. 94 00:04:40,864 --> 00:04:42,032 It's not a big knife. 95 00:04:42,116 --> 00:04:43,951 If you were gonna hold it, 96 00:04:44,034 --> 00:04:45,744 the handle is about the size of your hand, 97 00:04:45,828 --> 00:04:46,996 and then the blade would be sticking out 98 00:04:47,079 --> 00:04:48,247 maybe an inch to an inch and a half. 99 00:04:48,330 --> 00:04:49,999 So he wouldn't have been able to hold the knife 100 00:04:50,082 --> 00:04:51,582 to cut the next wrist. 101 00:04:51,667 --> 00:04:54,503 And if you slash-- slash your throat, 102 00:04:54,586 --> 00:04:56,422 well, you're not gonna be able to do either. 103 00:04:56,505 --> 00:04:59,341 So, I mean, not to make it a math problem, 104 00:04:59,425 --> 00:05:01,301 but the order of operations just doesn't make any sense. 105 00:05:01,385 --> 00:05:03,887 [Breathing heavily] 106 00:05:03,971 --> 00:05:06,390 [Cies] The devil possessing you, giving you superhuman strength 107 00:05:06,473 --> 00:05:09,893 was the explanation that put that to bed to everybody. 108 00:05:09,977 --> 00:05:12,187 [Woman] I understand there may have been some Satanic, 109 00:05:12,271 --> 00:05:13,772 uh, indications in that letter, as well. 110 00:05:13,856 --> 00:05:15,315 That's true. That's correct. 111 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:17,735 Even as a 13-year-old trying to process it, 112 00:05:17,818 --> 00:05:21,155 like, the devil doing it just didn't -- 113 00:05:21,238 --> 00:05:23,657 It's not really a satisfying explanation, 114 00:05:23,741 --> 00:05:26,201 and it just leaves you really, like, unsettled 115 00:05:26,285 --> 00:05:27,703 and really uneasy. 116 00:05:29,872 --> 00:05:31,874 It's 30-something years ago. 117 00:05:31,957 --> 00:05:33,332 It didn't make any sense at the time. 118 00:05:33,417 --> 00:05:35,294 And, like, looking back, 119 00:05:35,377 --> 00:05:37,796 I don't know anybody that thinks that Tommy killed himself. 120 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:43,343 ♪♪ 121 00:05:43,427 --> 00:05:47,431 ♪♪ 122 00:05:47,514 --> 00:05:48,891 [Man] It's just... 123 00:05:48,974 --> 00:05:53,729 ♪♪ 124 00:05:58,609 --> 00:06:02,404 ♪♪ 125 00:06:06,158 --> 00:06:08,994 ♪♪ 126 00:06:09,078 --> 00:06:10,746 ♪♪ 127 00:06:12,581 --> 00:06:14,792 ♪♪ 128 00:06:18,253 --> 00:06:20,005 ♪♪ 129 00:06:27,137 --> 00:06:30,182 ♪♪ 130 00:06:34,269 --> 00:06:41,276 ♪♪ 131 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:42,986 ♪♪ 132 00:06:53,288 --> 00:06:55,415 ♪♪ 133 00:06:59,586 --> 00:07:01,130 Satan came to him. 134 00:07:01,213 --> 00:07:02,881 Satan had his face on it. 135 00:07:02,965 --> 00:07:05,092 And Satan told him to kill his family and then go out 136 00:07:05,175 --> 00:07:07,136 and preach Satanism. 137 00:07:07,219 --> 00:07:09,429 ♪♪ 138 00:07:13,851 --> 00:07:15,894 A neighbor down the street told me Tommy Sullivan 139 00:07:15,978 --> 00:07:17,437 used to cut his grass. 140 00:07:17,521 --> 00:07:19,356 He said he was an all-American boy. 141 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:21,650 He said nobody-- and I mean nobody-- 142 00:07:21,733 --> 00:07:23,735 can figure out what went wrong. 143 00:07:23,819 --> 00:07:28,407 Satanism made little Tommy kill his mother so brutally. 144 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:30,659 Yeah, I don't buy that. 145 00:07:30,742 --> 00:07:31,952 I just don't. 146 00:07:33,453 --> 00:07:35,956 I was there just to learn. 147 00:07:36,039 --> 00:07:38,542 I was just there to find out why. 148 00:07:38,625 --> 00:07:40,627 Why? What happened here? 149 00:07:40,711 --> 00:07:42,880 I did not talk to Tom Sr. 150 00:07:42,963 --> 00:07:45,924 Trust me, I tried really, really hard to talk to him. 151 00:07:47,509 --> 00:07:48,886 I tried and tried and tried. 152 00:07:48,969 --> 00:07:50,554 He did not want to talk to me. 153 00:07:52,764 --> 00:07:55,726 So here I was going to look into, like, 154 00:07:55,808 --> 00:07:59,354 why and what happened and really, 155 00:07:59,438 --> 00:08:02,858 you know, dig as deeply as I could. 156 00:08:02,941 --> 00:08:05,110 But it wasn't an easy dig. 157 00:08:07,362 --> 00:08:09,531 I got a lot of, "I can't talk to you," 158 00:08:09,615 --> 00:08:10,991 "I don't want to talk to you." 159 00:08:11,074 --> 00:08:14,161 "Why?" "I'm sorry. I just can't talk to you"... 160 00:08:14,244 --> 00:08:17,956 as if there was this big secret, which made me even, 161 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:19,541 you know, more curious. 162 00:08:21,126 --> 00:08:23,337 Like, what's being hidden here? 163 00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:26,506 I remember my mother not being a fan of Tom Sr. 164 00:08:26,590 --> 00:08:31,011 My folks remember Tom Sr. was heavy-handed. 165 00:08:31,094 --> 00:08:33,764 I used to occasionally catch a beating 166 00:08:33,847 --> 00:08:35,307 from my father, obviously. 167 00:08:35,390 --> 00:08:37,392 I mean, it was the 1980s 168 00:08:37,476 --> 00:08:39,561 and I was a pain in the ass, 169 00:08:39,645 --> 00:08:43,232 but Tommy was in trouble a lot, 170 00:08:43,315 --> 00:08:45,525 either grounded or afraid 171 00:08:45,609 --> 00:08:47,194 that his father was gonna give him a few cracks 172 00:08:47,277 --> 00:08:49,696 when he got home. 173 00:08:49,780 --> 00:08:52,074 I was able to rationalize it at the time, like, 174 00:08:52,157 --> 00:08:53,825 you know, that's just what happens, you know? 175 00:08:53,909 --> 00:08:56,787 But looking back, it definitely was a different level. 176 00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:59,289 [Indistinct talking on TV] 177 00:08:59,373 --> 00:09:02,125 Tom Sr., he had a temper. 178 00:09:02,209 --> 00:09:03,961 I guess that was pretty well known. 179 00:09:05,671 --> 00:09:08,048 Detective Pell related to me, and one of the people 180 00:09:08,131 --> 00:09:11,051 that he had spoken with from the neighborhood 181 00:09:11,134 --> 00:09:14,888 described Tom Sr. as having some type of argument 182 00:09:14,972 --> 00:09:16,807 or something with Tom Jr. 183 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:18,600 Kind of got loud and stuff. 184 00:09:21,937 --> 00:09:24,856 Kind of an aggressive type of situation. 185 00:09:24,940 --> 00:09:27,150 Went unreported to law enforcement, 186 00:09:27,234 --> 00:09:29,569 but nothing was ever done. 187 00:09:29,653 --> 00:09:31,822 There were people around the neighborhood 188 00:09:31,905 --> 00:09:35,242 that voiced concerns about Tommy and his father getting into it, 189 00:09:35,325 --> 00:09:37,077 but certainly nobody's picking up the phone, 190 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,787 calling 911, 191 00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:41,039 um, and didn't. 192 00:09:44,501 --> 00:09:46,795 When I first started looking at what was going on 193 00:09:46,878 --> 00:09:49,589 with this family, 194 00:09:49,673 --> 00:09:51,883 one of the things that I recall 195 00:09:51,967 --> 00:09:54,261 didn't involve Tommy or Tommy's room, 196 00:09:54,344 --> 00:09:58,473 but it was Brian and Brian's room. 197 00:09:58,557 --> 00:10:02,060 Most of us, if you had brothers and sisters growing up, 198 00:10:02,144 --> 00:10:04,354 remember putting a sign on your door 199 00:10:04,438 --> 00:10:06,356 that said, "Do not enter," or whatever or something like that. 200 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,358 "Keep out." 201 00:10:08,442 --> 00:10:10,277 That's until your mother and father said, "Nah, 202 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,279 we don't do that here," and take it down. 203 00:10:12,362 --> 00:10:15,615 The thing that struck me was that on the door 204 00:10:15,699 --> 00:10:18,452 to Brian's bedroom, 205 00:10:18,535 --> 00:10:20,746 it said, "Stay out or I will kill you." 206 00:10:22,789 --> 00:10:25,459 And I think it speaks to a level of violence 207 00:10:25,542 --> 00:10:30,797 that I hate to say was acceptable. 208 00:10:30,881 --> 00:10:35,052 It certainly wouldn't have flown in our home. 209 00:10:35,135 --> 00:10:38,805 Um, and I think most parents would say the same thing. 210 00:10:38,889 --> 00:10:41,099 That -- In my opinion, 211 00:10:41,183 --> 00:10:44,895 this was an indicator of the family situation, 212 00:10:44,978 --> 00:10:46,355 the dynamics. 213 00:10:49,483 --> 00:10:51,985 I always had this feeling that Tom was mad at his mom 214 00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:55,489 for not protecting them from the dad. 215 00:10:55,572 --> 00:10:57,491 And I remember having the sense 216 00:10:57,574 --> 00:11:00,494 that his mother didn't step in to protect him and Brian 217 00:11:00,577 --> 00:11:03,038 as much as he would have liked that she would have. 218 00:11:03,121 --> 00:11:06,083 Like, she should have been there to cushion that blow. 219 00:11:08,627 --> 00:11:12,631 I hesitate to judge a person's home, 220 00:11:12,714 --> 00:11:17,511 and there are factors in every home that have issues, 221 00:11:17,594 --> 00:11:19,179 and parents have issues. 222 00:11:19,262 --> 00:11:22,099 [Indistinct arguing] 223 00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:24,518 [Fleck] But I don't think there was good communication. 224 00:11:24,601 --> 00:11:26,812 [Arguing continues] 225 00:11:29,272 --> 00:11:32,984 In an article that was written subsequent to this, 226 00:11:33,068 --> 00:11:36,571 the father had been quoted as saying, 227 00:11:36,655 --> 00:11:39,866 "My wife was overbearing 228 00:11:39,950 --> 00:11:42,160 and she's too strict." 229 00:11:43,745 --> 00:11:45,580 And maybe she was too strict. 230 00:11:45,664 --> 00:11:47,332 ♪♪ 231 00:11:47,415 --> 00:11:48,750 [Video game sound effects playing] 232 00:11:48,834 --> 00:11:51,420 ♪♪ 233 00:11:53,547 --> 00:11:55,090 [Woman vocalizing] 234 00:11:55,173 --> 00:11:57,634 ♪♪ 235 00:12:06,768 --> 00:12:08,562 ♪♪ 236 00:12:11,523 --> 00:12:13,483 [Davidowitz] Betty Anne is the one who believed 237 00:12:13,567 --> 00:12:15,152 that parochial education was good. 238 00:12:15,235 --> 00:12:18,697 I don't think that the dad had signed up for that, 239 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:21,908 but he just went along with it. 240 00:12:21,992 --> 00:12:27,122 What little I gathered from talking to neighbors 241 00:12:27,205 --> 00:12:30,459 is that this boy, 242 00:12:30,542 --> 00:12:35,881 I think he just felt as if he couldn't breathe... 243 00:12:35,964 --> 00:12:37,883 [Betty Anne shouting indistinctly] 244 00:12:37,966 --> 00:12:39,968 [Door slams] 245 00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:44,848 [Davidowitz] ...as if he had no say in that family, 246 00:12:44,931 --> 00:12:48,977 because Mom knows better and Dad knows better than you do. 247 00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:51,021 [Heavy metal music plays] 248 00:12:51,104 --> 00:12:54,274 And if you are miserable, well, you'll get over it. 249 00:12:54,357 --> 00:12:56,026 And he wasn't getting over it. 250 00:12:56,109 --> 00:12:59,779 He was miserable. It wasn't a fad. 251 00:12:59,863 --> 00:13:01,823 It wasn't just a little period of time. 252 00:13:01,907 --> 00:13:03,408 He was miserable. 253 00:13:03,492 --> 00:13:06,161 [suspenseful music playing] 254 00:13:10,916 --> 00:13:18,423 ♪♪ 255 00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:23,428 There's piety that's good, 256 00:13:23,512 --> 00:13:27,015 and there's piety that is self-serving. 257 00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:31,937 I'm very influenced by my tradition 258 00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:35,440 for daily Mass and prayers four times a day. 259 00:13:35,524 --> 00:13:37,734 That's part of who I am. 260 00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:42,989 But it does not absolve me 261 00:13:43,073 --> 00:13:46,451 from the realities I see around me. 262 00:13:46,535 --> 00:13:50,205 I can't just pray them up to God. 263 00:13:50,288 --> 00:13:53,833 I believe that she was praying for her family 264 00:13:53,917 --> 00:13:58,088 and for herself and not seeing. 265 00:13:58,171 --> 00:14:00,340 And we all have blind spots and we all have things 266 00:14:00,423 --> 00:14:02,634 we don't want to see. 267 00:14:02,717 --> 00:14:05,262 So obviously she was struggling 268 00:14:05,345 --> 00:14:07,806 and saw things perhaps that she didn't know how to deal with. 269 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,018 [Speaking indistinctly] 270 00:14:12,102 --> 00:14:14,980 I remember when she came to talk to me 271 00:14:15,063 --> 00:14:21,111 and I told her, "The children are worried about your son." 272 00:14:21,194 --> 00:14:24,531 I said, "Some of what he's talking about"... 273 00:14:24,614 --> 00:14:26,866 I think it's something you might be interested in. 274 00:14:26,950 --> 00:14:30,537 ...is about Satan and his power." 275 00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:32,872 I said, "I don't know everything, 276 00:14:32,956 --> 00:14:38,378 but I really encourage you to talk to your son 277 00:14:38,461 --> 00:14:42,090 with your husband over the next few days." 278 00:14:42,173 --> 00:14:45,176 And she said to me, "Where's the rule book?" 279 00:14:46,928 --> 00:14:48,930 And I said, "Rule book?" She said, "Yes. 280 00:14:49,014 --> 00:14:53,393 How do I raise children? I don't know how to do it." 281 00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:54,769 I said, "There's no rule book." 282 00:14:57,355 --> 00:14:59,566 I had never been asked about a rule book. 283 00:14:59,649 --> 00:15:02,110 And I'd been doing the work for a long time. 284 00:15:02,193 --> 00:15:06,072 No parent ever said, "Give me the blueprint. 285 00:15:06,156 --> 00:15:07,365 Give me the --" 286 00:15:07,449 --> 00:15:11,411 So that spoke volumes to me. 287 00:15:11,494 --> 00:15:14,372 If you are asking for a rule book, 288 00:15:14,456 --> 00:15:16,416 you're in a lot of conflict. 289 00:15:17,876 --> 00:15:20,086 That was Thursday. 290 00:15:20,170 --> 00:15:22,964 He had killed his mother on Saturday night. 291 00:15:23,048 --> 00:15:26,593 And somewhere before they found him, he had killed himself. 292 00:15:28,637 --> 00:15:33,266 Truth be told, I thought it was my fault 293 00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:35,644 because I asked her to talk to him. 294 00:15:38,063 --> 00:15:44,069 So my first thought was, "This is on you." 295 00:15:44,152 --> 00:15:47,822 ♪♪ 296 00:15:50,116 --> 00:15:52,494 [Indistinct talking on TV] 297 00:15:52,577 --> 00:15:56,247 [McConley] Something horrible happened in that house. 298 00:15:56,331 --> 00:15:59,376 I had a lot of questions and a lot of -- a lot of confusion. 299 00:16:02,253 --> 00:16:06,007 I just know my gut feeling that something didn't add up. 300 00:16:06,091 --> 00:16:07,926 It wasn't right. 301 00:16:08,009 --> 00:16:10,804 I felt that the father was suspicious 302 00:16:10,887 --> 00:16:14,474 and maybe that knew more than he had told us. 303 00:16:14,557 --> 00:16:17,310 I mean, I wasn't saying for sure that he did anything. 304 00:16:17,394 --> 00:16:20,397 I don't know that for a fact, but I felt 305 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,357 that he seriously needed to be looked at as a suspect. 306 00:16:24,109 --> 00:16:25,568 [Speaking indistinctly] 307 00:16:25,652 --> 00:16:28,863 For a father to draw a conclusion that quickly, 308 00:16:28,947 --> 00:16:32,033 to go from knowing nothing to saying, "Get my son," 309 00:16:32,117 --> 00:16:34,035 it just didn't make sense. 310 00:16:34,119 --> 00:16:36,204 That's what really threw me off. 311 00:16:36,287 --> 00:16:38,498 How do you know that? You were sleeping. 312 00:16:38,581 --> 00:16:39,708 And now you know your son murdered 313 00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:42,627 your wife and his mother? 314 00:16:42,711 --> 00:16:44,921 It just didn't seem right to me. 315 00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:48,133 And how did this kid come back to the scene 316 00:16:48,216 --> 00:16:49,718 and cut his own throat 317 00:16:49,801 --> 00:16:51,219 with all the officers there and everything? 318 00:16:51,302 --> 00:16:53,304 And he wasn't there when we started the search. 319 00:16:54,848 --> 00:16:56,015 Something isn't right. 320 00:16:56,099 --> 00:16:58,852 Like, how did he reappear right there? 321 00:16:58,935 --> 00:17:00,520 ♪♪ 322 00:17:17,912 --> 00:17:21,415 ♪♪ 323 00:17:27,338 --> 00:17:30,216 ♪♪ 324 00:17:39,225 --> 00:17:40,727 [Camera shutter clicks] 325 00:17:40,810 --> 00:17:42,812 The thing about the Tommy situation is that... 326 00:17:42,896 --> 00:17:44,439 I don't know that anyone's ever gonna know 327 00:17:44,522 --> 00:17:46,524 what actually happened, 328 00:17:46,608 --> 00:17:49,944 but I just don't see it as possible that Tommy did it. 329 00:17:50,028 --> 00:17:51,529 It feels to me that what makes much more sense 330 00:17:51,613 --> 00:17:56,910 is that Tom Sr. is the one that killed Tommy. 331 00:17:56,993 --> 00:17:59,788 ♪♪ 332 00:18:03,041 --> 00:18:04,959 ♪♪ 333 00:18:07,212 --> 00:18:09,130 [McConley] I remember, like, early in the morning 334 00:18:09,214 --> 00:18:10,924 writing my report. 335 00:18:11,007 --> 00:18:13,843 My report originally expressed 336 00:18:13,927 --> 00:18:20,183 that I felt the father was a suspect, strongly felt that. 337 00:18:20,266 --> 00:18:23,520 And then if not, he knew a lot more than he told us. 338 00:18:23,603 --> 00:18:25,396 The chief told me I was wrong, 339 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,358 that it was a homicide-suicide. 340 00:18:28,441 --> 00:18:32,070 I couldn't comprehend how we'd determined that that quick. 341 00:18:32,153 --> 00:18:34,906 ♪♪ 342 00:18:45,834 --> 00:18:48,044 [Cies] Murder, suicide. 343 00:18:48,127 --> 00:18:50,797 It was almost like the police couldn't comprehend it either, 344 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,674 but this seemed like it made sense, 345 00:18:52,757 --> 00:18:56,386 so "let's just do this and get it done with" type thing. 346 00:18:56,469 --> 00:18:58,930 And it just never felt right. 347 00:18:59,013 --> 00:19:00,515 I think that's part of the reason 348 00:19:00,598 --> 00:19:02,350 why it's just never really gone away. 349 00:19:02,433 --> 00:19:04,978 [Hart] I've certainly heard that Tom Jr. couldn't have done this, 350 00:19:05,061 --> 00:19:07,647 that it was Tom Sr. 351 00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:11,359 I again look at it from an investigator's standpoint. 352 00:19:11,442 --> 00:19:14,737 I've never seen any evidence that would make that connection. 353 00:19:14,821 --> 00:19:17,532 [Davidowitz] The police didn't think it was the father. 354 00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:21,035 When something is incomprehensible, 355 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,454 theories are always around. 356 00:19:23,538 --> 00:19:25,164 They're always around. 357 00:19:25,248 --> 00:19:27,166 When you don't understand something, 358 00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:28,960 you got to come up with something 359 00:19:29,043 --> 00:19:31,796 that to you makes sense. 360 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,800 'Cause a 14-year-old boy brutally killing his mom? 361 00:19:35,884 --> 00:19:39,637 Unh-unh. It's got to be the husband, right? 362 00:19:39,721 --> 00:19:41,639 That's usually the suspect, 363 00:19:41,723 --> 00:19:44,684 so it must have been the father, even though it makes no sense. 364 00:19:48,354 --> 00:19:50,315 Tom. 365 00:19:50,398 --> 00:19:51,774 [Roth] On the night of the murder, 366 00:19:51,858 --> 00:19:54,485 Thomas Sullivan Sr. provided a detailed account 367 00:19:54,569 --> 00:19:58,323 of his whereabouts to police. 368 00:19:58,406 --> 00:20:01,492 He stated that, "He had not been feeling well during the day." 369 00:20:01,576 --> 00:20:03,119 [Smoke alarm beeping] 370 00:20:03,202 --> 00:20:05,580 He was awakened by the sound of a smoke alarm, 371 00:20:05,663 --> 00:20:07,457 and upon getting up to investigate, 372 00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:10,376 he hears the front door slam closed. 373 00:20:10,460 --> 00:20:12,045 As he exits the bedroom, 374 00:20:12,128 --> 00:20:14,964 he observes a small fire on the living room floor 375 00:20:15,048 --> 00:20:17,050 and begins to stomp it out 376 00:20:17,133 --> 00:20:20,762 and uses a couch pillow to beat at the flames. 377 00:20:20,845 --> 00:20:23,348 He is confused. 378 00:20:23,431 --> 00:20:26,684 He went across the street to the Eastman home, 379 00:20:26,768 --> 00:20:30,146 banged on the door, and requested help from Mr. Eastman. 380 00:20:32,607 --> 00:20:33,858 [Kennedy] He went into the house. 381 00:20:33,942 --> 00:20:37,320 He's screaming for his family. 382 00:20:37,403 --> 00:20:38,780 At that time, the younger son 383 00:20:38,863 --> 00:20:40,365 comes out of his bedroom, 384 00:20:40,448 --> 00:20:43,952 and Tom asked him if he saw his brother and his mother. 385 00:20:44,035 --> 00:20:46,829 And he said, "Yeah, I saw Tommy 386 00:20:46,913 --> 00:20:49,374 and he was covered in blood." 387 00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:57,090 Brian's interaction with Tom Sr. is just one more piece 388 00:20:57,173 --> 00:20:58,925 of the puzzle that made Tommy a kind of 389 00:20:59,008 --> 00:21:01,177 a prime suspect or person of interest. 390 00:21:02,762 --> 00:21:04,347 The night that this happened, 391 00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:07,475 there was certainly enough bloodshed in the house. 392 00:21:07,558 --> 00:21:09,811 If Tom Sr. was responsible for that, 393 00:21:09,894 --> 00:21:11,813 we would have had blood on his clothes, 394 00:21:11,896 --> 00:21:14,232 blood on his hands, blood on his face. 395 00:21:14,315 --> 00:21:16,693 And when the call went into the arrival, 396 00:21:16,776 --> 00:21:18,569 couldn't have been more than a few minutes. 397 00:21:18,653 --> 00:21:20,113 The idea that he, what -- 398 00:21:20,196 --> 00:21:22,323 He would have killed these two people, 399 00:21:22,407 --> 00:21:24,117 been covered in blood, 400 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,994 and then run into the house and took a shower. 401 00:21:26,077 --> 00:21:28,037 And certainly, 402 00:21:28,121 --> 00:21:31,916 if Tom Sr. had been responsible for killing Tommy Jr., 403 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,668 there would have been two sets of footprints 404 00:21:33,751 --> 00:21:35,962 going out to the body, not just one. 405 00:21:36,045 --> 00:21:37,505 And it would have been the same thing. 406 00:21:37,588 --> 00:21:39,382 There would have been a lot of blood. 407 00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:44,303 I think people just have a hard time accepting 408 00:21:44,387 --> 00:21:49,142 that that level of violence could be perpetrated 409 00:21:49,225 --> 00:21:50,560 by a 14-year-old. 410 00:21:52,603 --> 00:21:54,897 And people like to jump to a conclusion. 411 00:21:54,981 --> 00:21:56,399 "Tommy couldn't have done that. 412 00:21:56,482 --> 00:21:57,650 It had to be somebody else," you know. 413 00:21:57,734 --> 00:21:59,444 "It had to be somebody else." 414 00:21:59,527 --> 00:22:02,488 Well, the evidence in this case 415 00:22:02,572 --> 00:22:06,325 didn't support anybody else but Tommy. 416 00:22:06,409 --> 00:22:07,952 ♪♪ 417 00:22:11,914 --> 00:22:15,084 [water rushing] 418 00:22:19,213 --> 00:22:20,923 [Roth] Within a few months, 419 00:22:21,007 --> 00:22:23,426 final autopsy reports came back to say 420 00:22:23,509 --> 00:22:27,346 that Tommy Sullivan Jr. was not under the influence of drugs, 421 00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:29,432 and that the same knife was used to kill 422 00:22:29,515 --> 00:22:32,060 both himself and his mother. 423 00:22:32,143 --> 00:22:34,395 So the case was officially closed. 424 00:22:34,479 --> 00:22:36,981 Murder-suicide. 425 00:22:37,065 --> 00:22:39,901 But the questions have always lingered. 426 00:22:39,984 --> 00:22:43,946 I can't explain everything that happened. 427 00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:47,450 I can explain some of it. I can accept some of it. 428 00:22:47,533 --> 00:22:52,205 But I don't have any better an idea of what happened. 429 00:22:53,831 --> 00:22:57,126 There are things that can't be explained 430 00:22:57,210 --> 00:23:02,131 and died with people that are no longer with us. 431 00:23:04,050 --> 00:23:05,927 In a basic police report, 432 00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:07,887 there should be the primary questions -- Who, what, 433 00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:10,515 where, when, and why? 434 00:23:10,598 --> 00:23:13,059 But we've never had the why, 435 00:23:13,142 --> 00:23:14,727 and we never got to ask those questions 436 00:23:14,811 --> 00:23:16,145 or come up with answers. 437 00:23:17,814 --> 00:23:20,108 What cases like this bring up 438 00:23:20,191 --> 00:23:22,151 is, we often don't know 439 00:23:22,235 --> 00:23:24,529 what's going on inside of somebody's head. 440 00:23:28,074 --> 00:23:33,830 My area of expertise is kids who kill and parricide, 441 00:23:33,913 --> 00:23:35,998 which is kids who kill parents. 442 00:23:37,625 --> 00:23:41,295 The killing of a parent is very, very personal. 443 00:23:41,379 --> 00:23:44,590 Killing the people that gave you life -- 444 00:23:44,674 --> 00:23:46,968 That's why it horrifies people. 445 00:23:49,262 --> 00:23:52,515 What we know about Tommy is, he was a healthy kid. 446 00:23:52,598 --> 00:23:57,270 Good family, good community, athlete, Catholic school. 447 00:23:57,353 --> 00:24:00,231 He was kind of privileged in a lot of ways, 448 00:24:00,314 --> 00:24:03,317 but he's willing to trade all of that to be with Satan. 449 00:24:05,820 --> 00:24:11,159 So what was going on with that individual or in that home 450 00:24:11,242 --> 00:24:13,578 that things could have ended so badly? 451 00:24:15,163 --> 00:24:18,291 Could there be, for example, abuse? 452 00:24:18,374 --> 00:24:19,584 Maybe. 453 00:24:19,667 --> 00:24:22,795 Could he have been angry? Yes. 454 00:24:22,879 --> 00:24:26,883 But if it were simply a matter of responding to violence 455 00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:28,926 that he had experienced, 456 00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:32,263 I don't think we'd have this Satanic element involved. 457 00:24:32,346 --> 00:24:36,100 Once you mix in the Satanic involvement, 458 00:24:36,184 --> 00:24:40,855 you can't say, "Well, it was only the abuse that drove this." 459 00:24:40,938 --> 00:24:45,151 When you start making pacts with Satan, 460 00:24:45,234 --> 00:24:46,736 it's a whole different ball game. 461 00:24:49,906 --> 00:24:54,869 Tommy was involved in reading, drawings, 462 00:24:54,952 --> 00:24:57,371 learning about Satanism 463 00:24:57,455 --> 00:24:59,707 to the extent of making what he believed 464 00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:01,125 to be a pact with Satan. 465 00:25:01,209 --> 00:25:02,668 I mean, that's extreme. 466 00:25:05,338 --> 00:25:08,257 [Horowitz] Tommy's drawings bespeak anger, 467 00:25:08,341 --> 00:25:11,302 but there's a lot of adolescent boys filled with anger. 468 00:25:13,137 --> 00:25:15,389 You could probably find drawings like that 469 00:25:15,473 --> 00:25:18,434 in the notebooks of a vast number of adolescent boys 470 00:25:18,517 --> 00:25:20,603 from that era 471 00:25:20,686 --> 00:25:24,732 who never acted out on any of this stuff and never would. 472 00:25:26,275 --> 00:25:27,568 But he did act. 473 00:25:29,195 --> 00:25:31,656 I drew in my notebooks the same way he did, 474 00:25:31,739 --> 00:25:34,492 and I have to confess, 475 00:25:34,575 --> 00:25:38,537 I feel a certain affection and sympathy for Tommy Jr. 476 00:25:40,748 --> 00:25:43,626 He went down one path. 477 00:25:43,709 --> 00:25:45,336 I went down another. 478 00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:48,172 [Indistinct whispering] 479 00:25:48,256 --> 00:25:50,716 What was it in his life 480 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,011 that went in such a violent direction 481 00:25:54,095 --> 00:25:56,305 that my life did not go in? 482 00:25:56,389 --> 00:25:57,974 [Indistinct whispering] 483 00:26:02,812 --> 00:26:06,816 [Heide] With Tommy, we have to ask, 484 00:26:06,899 --> 00:26:08,734 why did it take a violent turn? 485 00:26:11,028 --> 00:26:12,697 When I look at those drawings 486 00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:16,325 and I read those letters to Satan, 487 00:26:16,409 --> 00:26:18,077 and I look at the background... 488 00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:24,959 ...the strongest evidence from a clinical perspective 489 00:26:25,042 --> 00:26:29,213 is that Tommy, at 14, 490 00:26:29,297 --> 00:26:31,299 was severely mentally ill... 491 00:26:31,382 --> 00:26:34,010 [Tom Sr.] You do not have a life outside of this house! 492 00:26:34,093 --> 00:26:39,348 [Heide]...and experiencing likely some type of psychosis. 493 00:26:39,432 --> 00:26:41,309 [Betty Anne] Why can't you just be a good boy? 494 00:26:41,392 --> 00:26:43,102 Like I said... [ Heavy metal music plays ] 495 00:26:43,185 --> 00:26:46,647 Psychosis means being out of touch with reality, 496 00:26:46,731 --> 00:26:49,650 having delusions and bizarre beliefs 497 00:26:49,734 --> 00:26:51,986 with no basis in reality. 498 00:26:52,069 --> 00:26:53,863 [Gasps] 499 00:26:53,946 --> 00:26:55,781 Whether it was a psychotic episode 500 00:26:55,865 --> 00:26:58,451 or childhood schizophrenia... 501 00:26:58,534 --> 00:27:00,745 [Indistinct arguing] 502 00:27:04,999 --> 00:27:09,170 ...without treatment, it's a ticking time bomb. 503 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,011 [Roth] In the '80s, mental health was a taboo subject. 504 00:27:17,094 --> 00:27:18,971 Therapy was something that the rich did, 505 00:27:19,055 --> 00:27:21,515 or if you had suffered a traumatic event, 506 00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:24,477 it wasn't something that was openly discussed. 507 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,062 If something was off, 508 00:27:26,145 --> 00:27:27,521 if you were struggling, 509 00:27:27,605 --> 00:27:29,732 if you were feeling dark or angry or just lost, 510 00:27:29,815 --> 00:27:31,525 who did you turn to? 511 00:27:31,609 --> 00:27:34,487 Your friends? They'd make jokes about it. 512 00:27:34,570 --> 00:27:36,947 Adults? They'd tell you to toughen up. 513 00:27:37,031 --> 00:27:38,783 There were no resources or guidance 514 00:27:38,866 --> 00:27:40,201 for dealing with those feelings. 515 00:27:40,284 --> 00:27:42,161 So you kept them to yourself... 516 00:27:42,244 --> 00:27:44,080 buried deep down. 517 00:27:44,163 --> 00:27:46,374 But here's the thing. 518 00:27:46,457 --> 00:27:48,334 When you keep stuff like that bottled up, 519 00:27:48,417 --> 00:27:49,627 it doesn't stay quiet. 520 00:27:49,710 --> 00:27:51,462 It festers. 521 00:27:51,545 --> 00:27:53,506 And when it's left to rot in the dark, 522 00:27:53,589 --> 00:27:55,674 it poisons everything it touches. 523 00:27:55,758 --> 00:27:56,926 [Switch clicks] 524 00:27:57,009 --> 00:27:58,302 [Man laughs] 525 00:28:00,638 --> 00:28:03,557 [Heide] It's my belief 526 00:28:03,641 --> 00:28:09,522 that psychosis could lead an individual to do such an extreme 527 00:28:09,605 --> 00:28:12,024 and unthinkable act. 528 00:28:12,108 --> 00:28:14,485 [Betty Anne] I told you to go to bed hours ago. 529 00:28:14,568 --> 00:28:16,404 [Heide] Tommy was so immersed... 530 00:28:16,487 --> 00:28:18,155 I'm going down here, Tommy. 531 00:28:18,239 --> 00:28:20,408 ...in Satanism and destructive themes. 532 00:28:20,491 --> 00:28:22,284 [Tom Jr.] Leave me alone! 533 00:28:22,368 --> 00:28:26,288 If we take, you know, the fact that his thinking is disordered, 534 00:28:26,372 --> 00:28:28,207 which is part of psychosis... 535 00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:31,168 He has delusions. 536 00:28:31,252 --> 00:28:33,087 [Betty Anne] I don't know what to do anymore. 537 00:28:33,170 --> 00:28:36,090 [Tom Sr.] You do not have a life outside of this house! 538 00:28:36,173 --> 00:28:37,758 [Heide] In this case, the delusions 539 00:28:37,842 --> 00:28:40,428 are that he's in a pact with Satan... 540 00:28:40,511 --> 00:28:42,221 How are we supposed to help him? 541 00:28:42,304 --> 00:28:44,765 He won't talk to me. 542 00:28:44,849 --> 00:28:48,352 ...and that Satan is gonna reward him, 543 00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:50,020 and, in turn, for power, 544 00:28:50,104 --> 00:28:52,606 he's gonna do the killing of the family. 545 00:28:52,690 --> 00:28:56,110 ♪♪ 546 00:28:59,530 --> 00:29:03,409 Tommy killed his mother with a Boy Scout knife. 547 00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:07,288 Boy Scout knives are pretty small, 548 00:29:07,371 --> 00:29:10,708 so that suggests to me 549 00:29:10,791 --> 00:29:13,961 a lot of effort to get those kinds of wounds 550 00:29:14,044 --> 00:29:15,754 with a little knife... 551 00:29:15,838 --> 00:29:18,716 which suggests a lot of anger. 552 00:29:20,593 --> 00:29:22,553 He may have been dissociated, 553 00:29:22,636 --> 00:29:28,184 which means that when somebody is so overwhelmed with feeling 554 00:29:28,267 --> 00:29:30,186 that they just keep going, 555 00:29:30,269 --> 00:29:31,604 it's almost like automatic pilot. 556 00:29:34,773 --> 00:29:37,860 The aggression fuels the release of stress hormones. 557 00:29:37,943 --> 00:29:40,321 The cycle then propels more aggression, 558 00:29:40,404 --> 00:29:45,576 and people don't stop until typically, they're exhausted. 559 00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:47,411 [Breathing heavily] 560 00:29:47,495 --> 00:29:49,788 [suspenseful music playing] 561 00:29:49,872 --> 00:29:51,790 [buzzing] 562 00:29:56,378 --> 00:30:01,592 [Heide] The brother said Tommy was very fidgety. 563 00:30:01,675 --> 00:30:04,637 He's hyped-up. Well, I mean, I'd expect that. 564 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,890 I'm thinking he's just, like, on automatic pilot, 565 00:30:07,973 --> 00:30:10,518 and that would fit in with the dissociation. 566 00:30:10,601 --> 00:30:13,771 Sort of like, you know, just moving, 567 00:30:13,854 --> 00:30:16,357 just going through motions. 568 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,733 ♪♪ 569 00:30:17,816 --> 00:30:21,195 [Footsteps] 570 00:30:21,278 --> 00:30:23,864 When I heard Tommy committed suicide... 571 00:30:25,616 --> 00:30:30,204 And it's actually not uncommon in cases of parricide 572 00:30:30,287 --> 00:30:34,124 that the assailant will kill himself afterwards. 573 00:30:36,377 --> 00:30:41,131 When I was informed about how he killed himself, 574 00:30:41,215 --> 00:30:43,968 I'm thinking of the intensity and the pain, 575 00:30:44,051 --> 00:30:45,427 which would be extreme. 576 00:30:47,972 --> 00:30:50,975 When somebody is really dissociated, 577 00:30:51,058 --> 00:30:53,936 the stress level is so acute. 578 00:30:55,938 --> 00:30:58,232 He's not gonna be in good contact 579 00:30:58,315 --> 00:31:01,694 with feelings and thoughts. 580 00:31:01,777 --> 00:31:04,738 He's just not in good reality contact. 581 00:31:04,822 --> 00:31:06,657 He's just not there. 582 00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:10,536 [Man] They say he fought with his mother, then stabbed her. 583 00:31:10,619 --> 00:31:12,788 [Davidowitz] I think he was a very, very sick boy. 584 00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:15,791 Wo[Man] He went into a rage, stabbed his mother to death. 585 00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:20,796 [Sighs] I know that [Sighs] 586 00:31:20,879 --> 00:31:25,426 this boy committed murder. 587 00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:28,762 That's horrible. 588 00:31:28,846 --> 00:31:31,181 But I feel for him. 589 00:31:31,265 --> 00:31:33,350 I feel for this little boy. 590 00:31:34,852 --> 00:31:36,228 He needed help. 591 00:31:38,147 --> 00:31:39,565 He needed help. 592 00:31:41,066 --> 00:31:43,360 And obviously, he didn't get it. 593 00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:47,531 [Fleck] It just makes me so sad to think 594 00:31:47,615 --> 00:31:51,660 that a 14-year-old could have been so... 595 00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:55,080 ...haunted. 596 00:31:55,164 --> 00:31:59,293 Not realizing he had any lifelines. 597 00:31:59,376 --> 00:32:01,170 That makes me very sad. 598 00:32:03,047 --> 00:32:06,050 [Morgan] Nobody realized that he was in crisis. 599 00:32:06,133 --> 00:32:08,886 And as a parent now, for me, 600 00:32:08,969 --> 00:32:14,350 that's far more terrifying than any alleged demonic possession 601 00:32:14,433 --> 00:32:15,809 or Satanic influence. 602 00:32:15,893 --> 00:32:17,519 [Applause] 603 00:32:17,603 --> 00:32:20,022 Washington Township residents packed an auditorium tonight 604 00:32:20,105 --> 00:32:21,815 to hear more about Satanism. 605 00:32:21,899 --> 00:32:24,902 Did the Satanic Panic or some of the other cases 606 00:32:24,985 --> 00:32:28,238 that were floating around at the time kind of feed into this? 607 00:32:28,322 --> 00:32:29,782 I would say probably yes. 608 00:32:29,865 --> 00:32:31,825 [Man] The Satanic message is clear, 609 00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:34,328 both in the album covers and in the lyrics. 610 00:32:34,411 --> 00:32:36,664 [Hart] People in the community 611 00:32:36,747 --> 00:32:37,915 were looking for something to blame. 612 00:32:37,998 --> 00:32:39,208 I think it's a problem. 613 00:32:39,291 --> 00:32:40,501 You can call it the boogeyman. 614 00:32:40,584 --> 00:32:41,877 You can call it the devil or you can call -- 615 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,254 something to hang a label on, 616 00:32:44,338 --> 00:32:47,257 to blame for what happened. 617 00:32:47,341 --> 00:32:49,593 You can't prevent mental illness. 618 00:32:49,677 --> 00:32:52,805 You can hope to treat it, you know, 619 00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:55,307 but you can't prevent it. 620 00:32:55,391 --> 00:32:57,393 But Satanism? 621 00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:00,604 [Man] The question in everyone's mind seems to be, 622 00:33:00,688 --> 00:33:03,148 how widespread is this Satan business? 623 00:33:03,232 --> 00:33:04,733 [Woman] It makes you wonder, you know, 624 00:33:04,817 --> 00:33:06,193 if it can't happen to your child. 625 00:33:06,276 --> 00:33:09,697 [Horowitz] Humanity enjoys looking for an enemy, 626 00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:12,825 but whole books have been written 627 00:33:12,908 --> 00:33:14,827 discrediting the Satanic Panic. 628 00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:18,205 Most infamously, Geraldo Rivera spoke about it. 629 00:33:18,288 --> 00:33:21,041 It's teenagers who are most likely to fall 630 00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:23,669 under the spell of this jumble of dark, 631 00:33:23,752 --> 00:33:25,671 violent emotions called Satanism... 632 00:33:25,754 --> 00:33:27,673 [Horowitz] ...and has recently apologized 633 00:33:27,756 --> 00:33:30,467 for having participated in the Satanic Panic, 634 00:33:30,551 --> 00:33:33,053 blaming Satan or the devil. 635 00:33:33,137 --> 00:33:36,181 Satanism gives people a false sense of calm 636 00:33:36,265 --> 00:33:40,269 that they have an enemy that is easy to identify. 637 00:33:40,352 --> 00:33:43,188 Blame it on horror movies, Ozzy, and Judas Priest. 638 00:33:43,272 --> 00:33:44,773 It's much easier. 639 00:33:44,857 --> 00:33:48,026 But a broken home with an alleged abused kid, 640 00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:49,611 a lonely child -- 641 00:33:49,695 --> 00:33:53,949 That's a story that we should be looking to learn from. 642 00:33:54,032 --> 00:33:57,494 Whether you believe in occultism, 643 00:33:57,578 --> 00:33:59,747 whether you believe that Satan has power, 644 00:33:59,830 --> 00:34:03,041 whether you believe that Satan can give you the things 645 00:34:03,125 --> 00:34:05,669 that he's promising these kids, 646 00:34:05,753 --> 00:34:07,463 that's immaterial, my friend, 647 00:34:07,546 --> 00:34:08,672 because they believe it. 648 00:34:11,091 --> 00:34:14,719 [Heide] Is Satanism inherently dangerous? 649 00:34:14,803 --> 00:34:16,429 Probably not. 650 00:34:16,513 --> 00:34:20,768 But if that becomes one's solution to problems, 651 00:34:20,851 --> 00:34:23,270 that's -- that's dangerous. [Door slams] 652 00:34:23,353 --> 00:34:24,813 [Heavy metal music plays] 653 00:34:24,897 --> 00:34:28,484 You can't take Tommy out of the times. 654 00:34:28,567 --> 00:34:31,195 This was part of the culture. 655 00:34:31,277 --> 00:34:33,405 And it wasn't just the pop culture. 656 00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:38,534 The fact that Tommy was raised in a Catholic family, 657 00:34:38,619 --> 00:34:40,245 I think, is important 658 00:34:40,329 --> 00:34:44,917 because Satan was something that existed. 659 00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:49,797 So it was easy to understand 660 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:55,052 how a mentally ill juvenile with a lot of anger 661 00:34:55,135 --> 00:34:56,553 believed he was writing to Satan. 662 00:34:56,637 --> 00:34:58,472 [Indistinct whispering] 663 00:34:58,555 --> 00:35:02,059 ♪♪ 664 00:35:06,563 --> 00:35:11,318 [Fleck] I think Tom Jr. tried God 665 00:35:11,401 --> 00:35:14,780 and didn't get the answers he wanted, 666 00:35:14,863 --> 00:35:21,912 and so he turned to another source of power. 667 00:35:21,995 --> 00:35:25,457 ♪♪ 668 00:35:27,668 --> 00:35:30,212 ♪♪ 669 00:35:33,215 --> 00:35:34,800 Later that week... 670 00:35:34,883 --> 00:35:36,301 I'm so sorry. 671 00:35:36,385 --> 00:35:40,055 ...Tom Sr. and Brian came to talk to me 672 00:35:40,138 --> 00:35:41,932 about what had happened. 673 00:35:42,015 --> 00:35:44,768 No one should ever have to go through this. 674 00:35:44,852 --> 00:35:48,647 I was afraid to see the father 675 00:35:48,730 --> 00:35:51,316 because of my feeling 676 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,654 that perhaps I had caused this. 677 00:35:55,737 --> 00:36:00,868 I had asked Betty Anne to talk to Tom Jr. about Satan. 678 00:36:03,161 --> 00:36:06,331 Did she talk to him and those were the consequences? 679 00:36:07,791 --> 00:36:10,544 We didn't listen to you. 680 00:36:10,627 --> 00:36:12,880 Tom said to me right away... 681 00:36:12,963 --> 00:36:15,132 I wish I had listened. 682 00:36:15,215 --> 00:36:18,844 ..."You told us and we didn't listen." 683 00:36:18,927 --> 00:36:21,054 [Sighs] 684 00:36:21,138 --> 00:36:25,517 And then I knew my first thought was wrong, 685 00:36:25,601 --> 00:36:27,102 that it was my fault. 686 00:36:28,770 --> 00:36:31,023 That was, for me, a graced moment 687 00:36:31,106 --> 00:36:33,901 because he was able to free me 688 00:36:33,984 --> 00:36:37,112 from what I thought perhaps had happened. 689 00:36:37,195 --> 00:36:41,366 He gave me that gift, and I was so grateful. 690 00:36:45,913 --> 00:36:49,082 I just feared for Brian. 691 00:36:50,792 --> 00:36:54,546 Brian was barely able to function. 692 00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:58,800 I found out that he saw his brother 693 00:36:58,884 --> 00:37:01,845 after he killed his mother 694 00:37:01,929 --> 00:37:04,139 with his mother's blood on his hands. 695 00:37:04,222 --> 00:37:07,017 Tommy? 696 00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:08,685 He did say this to me -- 697 00:37:08,769 --> 00:37:10,854 "My brother told me to go back to bed. 698 00:37:12,940 --> 00:37:16,693 And the look on his face, I went back to bed." 699 00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:24,576 I can only imagine his horror. 700 00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:31,750 The demons that must have haunted him about all of it. 701 00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:39,091 I couldn't even imagine living Brian's life. 702 00:37:39,174 --> 00:37:42,970 Brian had to live with the fact that the only details 703 00:37:43,053 --> 00:37:46,181 that are known up until the last minute of Tommy's life 704 00:37:46,264 --> 00:37:48,850 before he dies are in Brian's head. 705 00:37:48,934 --> 00:37:50,143 He's the last person. 706 00:37:50,227 --> 00:37:53,146 [Woman vocalizing] 707 00:37:53,230 --> 00:37:55,482 I mean, I don't know how you would live with that. 708 00:37:55,565 --> 00:37:56,858 ♪♪ 709 00:38:00,487 --> 00:38:02,739 ♪♪ 710 00:38:16,753 --> 00:38:18,005 [Door closes] 711 00:38:18,088 --> 00:38:19,923 ♪♪ 712 00:38:34,855 --> 00:38:37,691 ♪♪ 713 00:38:52,956 --> 00:38:56,752 [Davidowitz] He lost his mother. He lost his brother. 714 00:38:56,835 --> 00:39:01,339 I can't imagine that he wasn't terribly damaged by this. 715 00:39:01,423 --> 00:39:03,842 Just look at this case 716 00:39:03,925 --> 00:39:08,472 and it's just layers and layers and layers of sadness. 717 00:39:10,891 --> 00:39:13,518 The first thing I thought about when I heard about Brian was -- 718 00:39:13,602 --> 00:39:15,896 I'm like, "Does this ever go away?" 719 00:39:15,979 --> 00:39:17,981 [Woman] A small new Jersey community stunned 720 00:39:18,065 --> 00:39:20,025 by a Satanic murder-suicide. 721 00:39:20,108 --> 00:39:21,777 When a person passes on, 722 00:39:21,860 --> 00:39:25,322 the energy of the individual still remains. 723 00:39:25,405 --> 00:39:27,407 [Woman] Setting fire to the family house 724 00:39:27,491 --> 00:39:29,910 in an attempt to kill his brother and his father 725 00:39:29,993 --> 00:39:32,412 were all linked to Satanism. 726 00:39:32,496 --> 00:39:33,914 [Scherlacher] Spirits have to go somewhere. 727 00:39:35,749 --> 00:39:37,834 They just don't disappear. 728 00:39:37,918 --> 00:39:40,087 They wreak havoc in other lives. 729 00:39:40,170 --> 00:39:42,589 [Siren wailing] What occurred in Morris County 730 00:39:42,672 --> 00:39:45,008 on that night in 1988... 731 00:39:45,092 --> 00:39:46,676 [Man] Washington Township residents 732 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,970 packed an auditorium tonight to hear more about Satanism. 733 00:39:49,054 --> 00:39:51,014 ...not only affected Tom and his mother 734 00:39:51,098 --> 00:39:52,933 and his brother and his dad -- 735 00:39:53,016 --> 00:39:55,727 I can tell you that each person 736 00:39:55,811 --> 00:39:58,480 whose life was touched by that event 737 00:39:58,563 --> 00:40:00,816 carries it to this day. 738 00:40:03,235 --> 00:40:04,778 [eerie tone playing] 739 00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:09,699 [Heide] Probably the hardest thing about this story 740 00:40:09,783 --> 00:40:13,995 is just the effects on everyone. 741 00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:16,998 It's a small town. 742 00:40:17,082 --> 00:40:19,584 I mean, this -- this will live on 743 00:40:19,668 --> 00:40:21,461 in the fabric of their community, 744 00:40:21,545 --> 00:40:22,671 I would think, forever. 745 00:40:26,883 --> 00:40:28,593 [Morgan] I am haunted. 746 00:40:28,677 --> 00:40:32,430 Haunted in the sense that it's 35 years 747 00:40:32,514 --> 00:40:33,765 that I haven't been able to shake it. 748 00:40:33,849 --> 00:40:34,850 You know? 749 00:40:34,933 --> 00:40:36,977 [car passing by] 750 00:40:39,729 --> 00:40:42,232 [Sighs] 751 00:40:42,315 --> 00:40:44,651 What happened to me as a 19-year old boy 752 00:40:44,734 --> 00:40:46,319 being put in that situation, 753 00:40:47,863 --> 00:40:49,990 it really stuck with me. 754 00:40:50,073 --> 00:40:52,617 I had a tough time. 755 00:40:52,701 --> 00:40:54,619 I couldn't sleep. 756 00:40:54,703 --> 00:40:57,581 I wanted things to be good for them. 757 00:40:57,664 --> 00:40:59,749 Yeah, it was tough. 758 00:41:03,503 --> 00:41:05,338 [Hart] Not many years ago, 759 00:41:05,422 --> 00:41:09,968 I recall a conversation with Chuckie and how it affected him. 760 00:41:10,051 --> 00:41:15,932 He apparently struggled with issues in his adult life. 761 00:41:16,016 --> 00:41:19,519 You would have to think that it would have been difficult. 762 00:41:19,603 --> 00:41:21,688 To be honest with you, I lost touch with Chuck, 763 00:41:21,771 --> 00:41:23,648 but I remember him being hit. 764 00:41:23,732 --> 00:41:26,067 Like, it resonated differently with him, 765 00:41:26,151 --> 00:41:27,652 like it resonated with me. 766 00:41:27,736 --> 00:41:29,946 For me, it was 'cause he was my neighbor next door, 767 00:41:30,030 --> 00:41:31,364 and because we had hung out 768 00:41:31,448 --> 00:41:33,575 and he and Chuckie had had that relationship 769 00:41:33,658 --> 00:41:35,911 where it definitely resonated strongly with him. 770 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,957 I just recently learned that Chuck also committed suicide. 771 00:41:42,334 --> 00:41:45,670 I was surprised and saddened to hear that he'd passed away. 772 00:41:47,756 --> 00:41:50,967 You don't see those things often happen 773 00:41:51,051 --> 00:41:53,220 in small communities like this, 774 00:41:53,303 --> 00:41:56,723 and when they do, they're not easily forgotten. 775 00:41:56,806 --> 00:41:59,142 You wonder how many of the other friends 776 00:41:59,226 --> 00:42:01,895 are sitting around all these years later still, you know, 777 00:42:01,978 --> 00:42:04,898 thinking about, "Well, maybe if I had said something." 778 00:42:04,981 --> 00:42:07,234 Or maybe they just buried it. Who knows? 779 00:42:08,735 --> 00:42:11,071 [indistinct police radio chatter] 780 00:42:15,825 --> 00:42:17,744 [McConley] Everybody knew that I was the one 781 00:42:17,827 --> 00:42:19,037 that found the bodies in town. 782 00:42:21,331 --> 00:42:24,000 So people would ask me and I would just, 783 00:42:24,084 --> 00:42:27,128 "Yeah, yeah, it was terrible," you know. 784 00:42:27,212 --> 00:42:29,923 Like, how do you talk to somebody that didn't see it? 785 00:42:30,006 --> 00:42:31,174 You know what I mean? 786 00:42:33,677 --> 00:42:35,095 As far as what I saw... 787 00:42:37,555 --> 00:42:40,392 ...you know, I kind of, like, blocked that out. 788 00:42:40,475 --> 00:42:43,520 I don't know. Just kind of buried it. 789 00:42:43,603 --> 00:42:45,522 Like, I never got no counseling or nothing. 790 00:42:47,274 --> 00:42:51,361 Now that I'm a born-again Christian, it makes more sense. 791 00:42:51,444 --> 00:42:54,948 I truly believe now that Satan played a part in it. 792 00:42:55,031 --> 00:42:57,909 That wasn't God's work. 793 00:42:57,993 --> 00:43:01,871 Everything evil that happens, Satan's involved with. 794 00:43:01,955 --> 00:43:04,291 I mean, you can call him whatever you want. 795 00:43:04,374 --> 00:43:06,501 Um, if you really, truly believe in God, 796 00:43:06,584 --> 00:43:08,545 then you believe in Satan. 797 00:43:08,628 --> 00:43:10,547 You can't believe in one without the other 798 00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:11,756 if you read the Bible. 799 00:43:14,050 --> 00:43:17,554 [Children shouting playfully] 800 00:43:17,637 --> 00:43:22,350 ♪♪ 801 00:43:22,434 --> 00:43:23,768 [Roth] The community of Jefferson 802 00:43:23,852 --> 00:43:26,980 is still haunted by this mystery. 803 00:43:27,063 --> 00:43:30,650 Why did Tommy kill his mother and himself? 804 00:43:31,943 --> 00:43:35,196 Was it the devil whispering promises of power and violence? 805 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,866 [Man] "To the greatest demons of hell, I, Tom Sullivan, 806 00:43:37,949 --> 00:43:40,577 would like to make a solemn exchange with you." 807 00:43:40,660 --> 00:43:44,664 [Laughs] 808 00:43:44,748 --> 00:43:48,126 Do I believe in the possibility of supernatural forces? 809 00:43:48,209 --> 00:43:49,544 [Man] [Distorted voice] Sign below. 810 00:43:49,627 --> 00:43:52,672 Absolutely. Absolutely. 811 00:43:52,756 --> 00:43:54,549 There are dark forces out there, 812 00:43:54,632 --> 00:43:57,761 and there are people that are gonna succumb to-- 813 00:43:57,844 --> 00:43:59,179 you know, to the devil. 814 00:43:59,262 --> 00:44:01,014 [Indistinct whispering] 815 00:44:01,097 --> 00:44:03,475 [Betty Anne screams] 816 00:44:03,558 --> 00:44:06,061 Sometimes evil wins. 817 00:44:06,144 --> 00:44:08,396 Or was it a mind pushed to the edge... 818 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:09,939 [Betty Anne] Satanism? Really? 819 00:44:10,023 --> 00:44:11,858 ...breaking under the weight 820 00:44:11,941 --> 00:44:14,944 of something we can't fully know or understand? 821 00:44:15,028 --> 00:44:16,321 Leave me alone! [Door slams] 822 00:44:17,947 --> 00:44:20,241 [Morgan] The really scary part of it for me 823 00:44:20,325 --> 00:44:24,746 is that a 14-year-old kid could be angry enough to do this. 824 00:44:24,829 --> 00:44:27,248 There's true evil out there. 825 00:44:27,332 --> 00:44:30,210 It doesn't have to be, you know, supernatural or anything. 826 00:44:30,293 --> 00:44:32,003 [Crying] 827 00:44:32,087 --> 00:44:34,714 I think he was a very, very sick boy. 828 00:44:34,798 --> 00:44:36,841 [Morgan] And he needed help. 829 00:44:36,925 --> 00:44:39,177 You don't even talk to me anymore. 830 00:44:39,260 --> 00:44:42,680 This story has captured the imagination of people 831 00:44:42,764 --> 00:44:45,642 trying to understand or explain the unexplainable. 832 00:44:47,977 --> 00:44:52,649 'Cause no one can really explain the nature of rage... 833 00:44:54,067 --> 00:44:57,821 ...or what's really going on in the mind of a 14-year old kid. 834 00:44:57,904 --> 00:45:00,865 [suspenseful music playing] 835 00:45:07,664 --> 00:45:09,999 [Roth] What keeps us all up at night 836 00:45:10,083 --> 00:45:13,545 is that no matter how safe our world feels around us, 837 00:45:13,628 --> 00:45:16,714 there's always that malevolence creeping in the shadows. 838 00:45:16,798 --> 00:45:19,050 And you never know when it's going to strike. 839 00:45:19,134 --> 00:45:21,594 [indistinct police radio chatter] 840 00:45:21,678 --> 00:45:23,054 But why the Sullivans? 841 00:45:23,138 --> 00:45:24,389 [Dogs barking] 842 00:45:24,472 --> 00:45:26,850 The truth is, we'll never know, 843 00:45:26,933 --> 00:45:31,271 because the only person that can give us answers is Tommy. 844 00:45:31,354 --> 00:45:33,148 And he has disappeared 845 00:45:33,231 --> 00:45:36,234 into the silence of his own tragic end. 846 00:45:36,317 --> 00:45:38,695 [Woman vocalizing] 847 00:45:38,778 --> 00:45:41,114 [suspenseful music playing] 848 00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:47,287 ♪♪ 849 00:45:51,458 --> 00:45:55,545 [eerie piano music playing] 850 00:45:58,798 --> 00:46:06,431 ♪♪ 851 00:46:06,514 --> 00:46:14,397 ♪♪ 852 00:46:14,481 --> 00:46:23,490 ♪♪ 853 00:46:23,573 --> 00:46:27,619 ♪♪ 854 00:46:27,702 --> 00:46:29,662 [Woman vocalizing] 855 00:46:29,746 --> 00:46:39,589 ♪♪ 856 00:46:39,672 --> 00:46:42,342 ♪♪ 857 00:46:42,425 --> 00:46:44,385 ♪♪