1 00:00:16,183 --> 00:00:18,352 It started with a fight between lovers 2 00:00:18,435 --> 00:00:19,895 at a South Fourth Street home 3 00:00:19,978 --> 00:00:22,856 and ended with two men charged with murder. 4 00:00:22,940 --> 00:00:25,692 When the murder of Jamie Carroll was uncovered, 5 00:00:25,776 --> 00:00:27,611 the story kind of just fell in my lap. 6 00:00:27,694 --> 00:00:29,780 Joseph Banis is accused of killing 7 00:00:29,863 --> 00:00:32,573 James Carroll and burying his body in his basement. 8 00:00:32,658 --> 00:00:36,078 "In my head, gears started to turn, 9 00:00:36,161 --> 00:00:38,205 slowly at first. 10 00:00:38,288 --> 00:00:40,082 Joseph Banis, 11 00:00:40,165 --> 00:00:42,084 Jeffrey Mundt, 12 00:00:42,167 --> 00:00:43,460 James Carroll." 13 00:00:43,544 --> 00:00:46,171 Joseph Banis is the first of two men 14 00:00:46,255 --> 00:00:48,507 to be tried for Carroll's murder. 15 00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:50,968 "Lovers' triangle. 16 00:00:51,051 --> 00:00:52,928 Body in the basement. 17 00:00:53,011 --> 00:00:55,013 Spooky old mansion. 18 00:00:55,097 --> 00:00:57,641 Revenge. Drugs. 19 00:00:57,724 --> 00:00:59,601 Kinky sex. 20 00:00:59,685 --> 00:01:01,853 You couldn't make this stuff up." 21 00:01:01,937 --> 00:01:04,982 Jury is expected to hear closing arguments today. 22 00:01:05,065 --> 00:01:08,527 You are here to judge the guilt of Joseph Banis, 23 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:10,654 and Jeffrey Mundt and Joseph Banis 24 00:01:10,737 --> 00:01:11,905 did this together. 25 00:01:11,989 --> 00:01:14,408 They acted in complicity with each other 26 00:01:14,491 --> 00:01:16,368 to commit the murder of Jamie Carroll. 27 00:01:16,451 --> 00:01:19,162 Jamie Carroll spent six months 28 00:01:19,246 --> 00:01:22,332 in a 50-gallon Rubbermaid container. 29 00:01:24,876 --> 00:01:27,420 "Would a verdict make sense of it all?" 30 00:01:40,892 --> 00:01:43,437 911 Operator Walker. Where is your emergency? 31 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,646 My ex-boyfriend is attacking me. 32 00:01:49,526 --> 00:01:51,027 Can somebody help? 33 00:01:56,158 --> 00:01:57,158 Please hurry. 34 00:02:02,789 --> 00:02:03,790 Please. 35 00:02:04,750 --> 00:02:05,959 They're coming. 36 00:02:07,669 --> 00:02:09,503 I can't get rid of him. 37 00:02:24,061 --> 00:02:25,562 The jury is getting ready 38 00:02:25,646 --> 00:02:27,189 to decide the fate of a Louisville man 39 00:02:27,272 --> 00:02:29,941 who could get the death penalty if convicted of murder. 40 00:02:30,025 --> 00:02:32,277 There's no indication yet how long Mitch Perry 41 00:02:32,361 --> 00:02:34,488 will let the jurors go tonight. 42 00:02:35,739 --> 00:02:39,159 Once we walked into the jury room to deliberate, 43 00:02:39,242 --> 00:02:41,578 we talked into the night up until about midnight. 44 00:02:42,204 --> 00:02:44,873 Jurors deliberated murder suspect Joseph Banis' fate 45 00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:47,042 for nine and a half hours last night 46 00:02:47,125 --> 00:02:50,003 before the judge ordered them sequestered overnight. 47 00:02:50,087 --> 00:02:54,091 It is an unusual situation where a jury would go out 48 00:02:54,174 --> 00:02:56,343 and we would be here late into the night, 49 00:02:56,426 --> 00:02:58,679 to the point where we had to come back the next day. 50 00:02:58,762 --> 00:03:01,348 I think we essentially all agreed like from the start. 51 00:03:03,266 --> 00:03:07,062 I feel like Jeff Mundt was more the mastermind. 52 00:03:07,145 --> 00:03:09,731 A lot of us believed that it was Jeffrey 53 00:03:09,815 --> 00:03:11,525 that was more guilty. 54 00:03:13,527 --> 00:03:16,321 After it seems like we've been stuck in the clouds forever, 55 00:03:16,405 --> 00:03:19,700 sunshine out there this morning, it's gonna last all day. 56 00:03:19,783 --> 00:03:21,535 Good morning, I'm John Boel with some breaking news. 57 00:03:21,618 --> 00:03:23,787 We wanna take you live downtown right now to the courthouse 58 00:03:23,870 --> 00:03:25,372 where we're about to get a verdict 59 00:03:25,454 --> 00:03:28,125 in the murder case of Joseph Banis. 60 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:30,252 Judge is speaking right now so let's listen in. 61 00:03:30,335 --> 00:03:32,337 I was told you have a verdict, Mr. Foreperson. 62 00:03:32,421 --> 00:03:34,047 -Is that true? -Yes, Your Honor. 63 00:03:34,131 --> 00:03:36,716 Alright. If you could hand the jury sheets to Sheriff Brown. 64 00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:39,052 Mr. Banis, if you'd please rise. 65 00:03:43,098 --> 00:03:45,350 "Under verdict instruction number one, 66 00:03:46,184 --> 00:03:48,103 we the jury found the defendant, Joseph Banis, 67 00:03:48,186 --> 00:03:49,855 guilty under instruction number one." 68 00:03:55,277 --> 00:03:58,238 It's against the rule but I let them hug there. 69 00:03:59,156 --> 00:04:02,617 I mean, if a guy going for life, what the heck? 70 00:04:02,701 --> 00:04:05,370 This might be his last time seeing his parents. 71 00:04:08,665 --> 00:04:11,334 If we had had both of them on trial together, 72 00:04:11,418 --> 00:04:14,212 our jury would've found them both guilty. 73 00:04:15,297 --> 00:04:16,923 Absolutely, 100%. 74 00:04:24,347 --> 00:04:25,807 "Dearest Kevin. 75 00:04:29,770 --> 00:04:31,313 I just got my photos back 76 00:04:31,396 --> 00:04:33,774 and decided to send you one along with this card 77 00:04:33,857 --> 00:04:35,942 to let you know I've been thinking of you." 78 00:04:40,530 --> 00:04:42,365 Joey Banis was my first boyfriend. 79 00:04:43,158 --> 00:04:44,743 He writes letters to me 80 00:04:44,826 --> 00:04:45,827 every single day. 81 00:04:46,912 --> 00:04:48,413 "I still sometimes worry 82 00:04:48,497 --> 00:04:51,457 that you won't want to be my friend in the long term." 83 00:04:51,541 --> 00:04:53,084 This goes on for years. 84 00:04:53,168 --> 00:04:54,753 I have shoeboxes full of letters, 85 00:04:54,836 --> 00:04:56,505 like cards from him, all handwritten. 86 00:04:57,506 --> 00:04:59,424 He used to always finish it with a peace sign, 87 00:04:59,508 --> 00:05:01,468 a heart sign, and a smiley face. 88 00:05:01,551 --> 00:05:03,386 "Peace, love, happiness, Joey." 89 00:05:05,847 --> 00:05:07,933 So this is the first photograph I ever took with Joey. 90 00:05:08,016 --> 00:05:09,434 This is when we fell in love. 91 00:05:11,269 --> 00:05:13,772 A drag queen once told us, "You look like bookends." 92 00:05:17,526 --> 00:05:19,653 I met him on a rainy November night 93 00:05:19,736 --> 00:05:21,238 in a bank parking lot. 94 00:05:23,615 --> 00:05:26,910 I'll never forget his face though, like, 95 00:05:26,993 --> 00:05:28,954 just the first time I saw him through the car window. 96 00:05:29,037 --> 00:05:32,582 Just like that slow looking over, like, "Is this him?" 97 00:05:34,668 --> 00:05:36,503 And we were sitting in a car, 'cause that's-- 98 00:05:36,586 --> 00:05:38,380 our relationship was limited to that, 99 00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:40,674 'cause he lived with his parents and I lived with my parents, 100 00:05:40,757 --> 00:05:42,133 like, where were we supposed to go? 101 00:05:42,217 --> 00:05:43,802 So every night we would just sit in a car 102 00:05:43,885 --> 00:05:45,387 and just talk for hours. 103 00:05:45,470 --> 00:05:47,722 Remember, don't mail it in, bring it in 104 00:05:47,806 --> 00:05:49,266 and get your cash today! 105 00:05:49,349 --> 00:05:51,101 He was very intelligent and that was something 106 00:05:51,183 --> 00:05:52,310 that was really important to me. 107 00:05:52,394 --> 00:05:54,187 Could carry a conversation and... 108 00:05:54,271 --> 00:05:56,648 from an amazing, you know, from a really good family 109 00:05:56,731 --> 00:05:59,192 and with a, you know, a great pedigree. 110 00:06:00,735 --> 00:06:04,573 We decided we wanted to get our own place. 111 00:06:05,782 --> 00:06:07,409 We found this cute little apartment 112 00:06:07,492 --> 00:06:09,286 down on First Street. 113 00:06:09,369 --> 00:06:11,746 There were no closets in that apartment. 114 00:06:11,830 --> 00:06:13,707 The joke was, "Well, we just came out of the closet, 115 00:06:13,790 --> 00:06:16,209 so I guess we don't need them anymore." 116 00:06:17,294 --> 00:06:18,753 Louisville broke the record 117 00:06:18,837 --> 00:06:22,507 for an all-time low temperature of minus 22 degrees. 118 00:06:22,591 --> 00:06:25,844 One year Louisville got hit with a huge snowstorm. 119 00:06:25,927 --> 00:06:28,305 We couldn't even go to work. Businesses were shut down. 120 00:06:28,388 --> 00:06:30,181 It was awesome for us. You know, 121 00:06:30,265 --> 00:06:32,433 be snowed in like kids in snow day in school. 122 00:06:34,436 --> 00:06:37,188 We, you know, started, you know, talking about things 123 00:06:37,272 --> 00:06:40,191 and... smoking weed. 124 00:06:41,359 --> 00:06:43,695 He told me his story. 125 00:06:44,487 --> 00:06:48,199 And his story was, he had spent time in jail. 126 00:06:48,783 --> 00:06:49,868 He was a Deadhead. 127 00:06:49,951 --> 00:06:51,494 He followed the Grateful Dead around. 128 00:06:51,578 --> 00:06:54,080 And they found some like LSD in the car and he had a gun. 129 00:06:54,164 --> 00:06:55,832 And I was like, "Wow, a gun. Like that's... 130 00:06:55,916 --> 00:06:58,084 Why would you-- why would someone need a gun?" 131 00:06:58,168 --> 00:07:00,837 But whatever. I was like, I don't-- I didn't care. 132 00:07:00,921 --> 00:07:02,422 You know, like, "I-I love you. 133 00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:04,758 It's alright, people-people make mistakes, right? 134 00:07:04,841 --> 00:07:06,509 Now, you-- let's just, let's move on. 135 00:07:06,593 --> 00:07:07,844 Let's move, let's move forward." 136 00:07:09,554 --> 00:07:11,389 And then from there, it was, "Hey, like, 137 00:07:11,473 --> 00:07:13,058 have you ever done LSD?" 138 00:07:13,141 --> 00:07:14,809 And this is when I started to realize, like, 139 00:07:14,893 --> 00:07:18,229 he doesn't have the switch that people have 140 00:07:18,313 --> 00:07:19,940 of like, enough is enough. 141 00:07:21,191 --> 00:07:23,318 One day, it was on Father's Day, 142 00:07:23,401 --> 00:07:25,862 we did some LSD and I was feeling good. 143 00:07:27,530 --> 00:07:29,240 We start-- he starts this argument, right? 144 00:07:29,324 --> 00:07:31,117 He immediately gets angry. 145 00:07:31,201 --> 00:07:33,453 He just reaches down and picks up a piece of glass 146 00:07:33,536 --> 00:07:34,955 and shoves it in my arm. 147 00:07:35,038 --> 00:07:36,873 He goes, "You see what you made me do?" 148 00:07:36,957 --> 00:07:40,043 And I'm like, "Holy shit!" 149 00:07:41,211 --> 00:07:43,672 And so I'm bleeding 150 00:07:43,755 --> 00:07:46,466 and I very calmly just get up and I walk outta the apartment. 151 00:07:46,549 --> 00:07:48,635 I walk next door and knock on the neighbor's door. 152 00:07:48,718 --> 00:07:51,304 And the girl, she opens the door and says, "Damn." 153 00:07:51,388 --> 00:07:53,139 I said, "Would you call the police please?" 154 00:07:54,975 --> 00:07:56,226 So... 155 00:07:57,060 --> 00:07:58,645 I get him kicked out... 156 00:08:00,105 --> 00:08:02,315 and that fucker moves in next door. 157 00:08:07,278 --> 00:08:08,405 It was scary. 158 00:08:27,007 --> 00:08:28,675 This is the Victorian Ghost Walk. 159 00:08:28,758 --> 00:08:30,927 It's a once-a-year, annual event. 160 00:08:31,511 --> 00:08:34,931 People in Victorian attire and-and period costume 161 00:08:35,015 --> 00:08:37,767 are staged to come alive as the spirits. 162 00:08:42,063 --> 00:08:45,025 I'm gonna sweat a lot of it off, I can tell already. 163 00:08:47,027 --> 00:08:49,029 It looks good in the beard, for sure. 164 00:08:52,157 --> 00:08:54,492 "Because of the sensational murder trial, 165 00:08:55,201 --> 00:08:57,787 more people wanted to come see the neighborhood 166 00:08:57,871 --> 00:09:00,790 in spite of its sullied reputation." 167 00:09:00,874 --> 00:09:03,960 Louisville is an extremely spirited place-- 168 00:09:04,044 --> 00:09:06,129 spirited with bourbon 169 00:09:06,212 --> 00:09:10,925 and spirited around here with a lot of ghostly figures. 170 00:09:12,093 --> 00:09:13,845 I do believe in ghosts. 171 00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:16,347 So many people have lived and died in these houses. 172 00:09:16,931 --> 00:09:19,517 People have said that they have seen 173 00:09:19,601 --> 00:09:21,770 ghostly figures walking through my house. 174 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,648 So many people have been laid in the front parlor 175 00:09:25,732 --> 00:09:26,941 for three days. 176 00:09:27,025 --> 00:09:28,902 I think there were some sad, sad things 177 00:09:28,985 --> 00:09:30,987 that happened in those front rooms. 178 00:09:31,071 --> 00:09:33,990 My husband passed away in this house. 179 00:09:34,074 --> 00:09:37,077 I found him lying on the floor. 180 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,995 I felt like somebody was pinching me, 181 00:09:39,079 --> 00:09:40,705 which sounds so crazy. 182 00:09:40,789 --> 00:09:43,165 But, uh, that's what he would've done, 183 00:09:43,249 --> 00:09:44,834 just kind of aggravated me. 184 00:09:45,418 --> 00:09:46,920 My house had a ghost in it. 185 00:09:47,003 --> 00:09:49,089 My cat was the only one who could see it. 186 00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:52,759 I never saw it. She was the only one who saw it. 187 00:09:52,842 --> 00:09:54,844 But it was always the same place, 188 00:09:54,928 --> 00:09:58,348 the same setup, the same time of day. 189 00:09:58,431 --> 00:10:00,308 It was there. It was definitely there. 190 00:10:00,391 --> 00:10:03,478 'Cause she would just walk in the room and sit down and... 191 00:10:11,611 --> 00:10:13,530 There's a ghost here. There's one back here, 192 00:10:13,613 --> 00:10:14,614 freaked out her brother. 193 00:10:16,908 --> 00:10:17,992 The woman. 194 00:10:18,701 --> 00:10:20,453 This used to be a brothel back here. 195 00:10:20,537 --> 00:10:22,247 -That's what the landlord says. -I think it's a rat. 196 00:10:22,330 --> 00:10:23,414 -I don't think it's a ghost. -No. 197 00:10:23,498 --> 00:10:24,791 The landlord talked about it years ago. 198 00:10:24,874 --> 00:10:26,292 Supposedly it's a woman. 199 00:10:26,376 --> 00:10:28,044 That's what her brother said. 200 00:10:29,379 --> 00:10:31,589 Gather around me, you see, 201 00:10:31,673 --> 00:10:34,300 she will only speak to all of us 202 00:10:34,384 --> 00:10:36,636 when she sees the near of thee. 203 00:10:36,719 --> 00:10:39,514 Every 15 minutes, starting at six o'clock, 204 00:10:39,597 --> 00:10:42,267 a group of 35 to 40 people leaves with a guide. 205 00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:45,145 The baby's dead. She's not asleep. 206 00:10:45,228 --> 00:10:47,063 These are not professional actors. 207 00:10:47,147 --> 00:10:50,066 The reaper comes for souls to keep. 208 00:10:52,318 --> 00:10:54,904 Sometimes it's their first acting gig ever. 209 00:10:54,988 --> 00:10:57,740 Let the dead come alive! 210 00:10:57,824 --> 00:10:59,951 The darker it gets, the spookier it gets, 211 00:11:00,034 --> 00:11:01,161 and more witches come out. 212 00:11:01,244 --> 00:11:03,621 Double, double toil and trouble. 213 00:11:03,705 --> 00:11:06,207 Fire burn and cauldron bubble. 214 00:11:10,295 --> 00:11:13,214 My paranormal friends, they think one of the reasons 215 00:11:13,298 --> 00:11:15,508 that this is such a haunted neighborhood is the fact 216 00:11:15,592 --> 00:11:18,303 that we have so much stone and brick construction, 217 00:11:18,386 --> 00:11:21,431 'cause they retain energy, they retain images better 218 00:11:21,514 --> 00:11:24,893 than light, airy, uh, wooden constructions would. 219 00:11:25,393 --> 00:11:28,813 Louisville is America's most haunted neighborhood 220 00:11:28,897 --> 00:11:30,982 because when you have a tour guide 221 00:11:31,065 --> 00:11:35,486 telling ghost stories three and four times a night, 222 00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:38,865 the more you say their name, the more energy you feed 'em, 223 00:11:38,948 --> 00:11:42,076 the more you're lifting their-their soul 224 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,162 and their essence, so to speak. 225 00:11:45,914 --> 00:11:49,375 Well, last year they asked me to play Annie Whipple. 226 00:11:49,459 --> 00:11:54,005 "'Dr. Anderson! Dr. Anderson!' I implored." 227 00:11:54,839 --> 00:11:57,175 Two doors down, they say a ghost 228 00:11:57,258 --> 00:11:59,802 of a governess they call Annie Whipple 229 00:11:59,886 --> 00:12:02,180 walks up and down the staircase. 230 00:12:03,056 --> 00:12:04,140 "And so... 231 00:12:05,767 --> 00:12:07,602 my head drooped 232 00:12:07,685 --> 00:12:11,439 and my hand dipped its pen in ink 233 00:12:11,522 --> 00:12:15,777 and scrawled the message across the page. 234 00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:17,820 And when I awoke, 235 00:12:17,904 --> 00:12:22,617 the chilling words before me on the page said, 236 00:12:23,826 --> 00:12:28,748 'You fool! I am not Dr. Anderson!'" 237 00:12:31,501 --> 00:12:36,214 But I wanna make sure that I do her justice 238 00:12:36,297 --> 00:12:38,967 because I only live a block from her. 239 00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:45,348 It's been suggested that we have someone stationed 240 00:12:45,431 --> 00:12:47,308 in front of the murder house 241 00:12:47,392 --> 00:12:50,144 dragging, uh, a blue Rubbermaid tote 242 00:12:50,228 --> 00:12:52,689 between the two of them. 243 00:12:53,273 --> 00:12:56,109 But we think it's a little too soon to go there. 244 00:12:56,693 --> 00:12:59,737 When I moved in across the street from the murder house, 245 00:12:59,821 --> 00:13:01,614 I was taking a lot of baths. 246 00:13:01,698 --> 00:13:05,326 I had an awesome clawfoot tub I spent a lot of time in. 247 00:13:10,248 --> 00:13:13,710 I started noticing a figure walking back and forth 248 00:13:13,793 --> 00:13:15,628 in front of the windows. 249 00:13:15,712 --> 00:13:18,047 And so I thought, "Oh," maybe at first, 250 00:13:18,131 --> 00:13:20,300 "this is somebody sneaking into that house." 251 00:13:20,383 --> 00:13:23,344 But I kept seeing that person in the window. 252 00:13:23,428 --> 00:13:26,889 Sometimes their hair is long, sometimes their hair is short, 253 00:13:26,973 --> 00:13:31,144 and after a while I realized, that person's not alive. 254 00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:35,356 I drew a sketch, 255 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:36,983 I put it on my Instagram, 256 00:13:37,066 --> 00:13:39,110 and I said, "Yeah, 257 00:13:39,193 --> 00:13:41,863 I think that's Jamie Carroll's ghost 258 00:13:41,946 --> 00:13:44,032 trying to get my attention." 259 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,708 "I wanted to piece together 260 00:13:53,790 --> 00:13:56,502 a more complete portrait of Jamie Carroll. 261 00:13:56,586 --> 00:13:58,504 He had lived and worked for a while 262 00:13:58,588 --> 00:14:00,048 in Paintsville, Kentucky, 263 00:14:00,131 --> 00:14:01,924 where he ran a hair salon." 264 00:14:03,384 --> 00:14:06,220 Jamie was just a great person. 265 00:14:06,846 --> 00:14:08,681 Jamie would give you the shirt off his back 266 00:14:08,765 --> 00:14:10,600 and not expect anything in return. 267 00:14:11,476 --> 00:14:13,394 He was a mommy's boy. 268 00:14:13,478 --> 00:14:14,937 He made sure Mom had groceries. 269 00:14:15,021 --> 00:14:17,774 You know, he made sure that Mom was taken care of. 270 00:14:17,857 --> 00:14:20,151 He would stop by and see me. 271 00:14:20,234 --> 00:14:22,612 He always did come by and see me. 272 00:14:22,695 --> 00:14:26,366 Sometimes I could tell he was not himself. 273 00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:27,742 He was... 274 00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:32,246 He was just-- he was... 275 00:14:32,330 --> 00:14:35,333 I better not say that, but he was... 276 00:14:35,415 --> 00:14:37,627 he was not himself. 277 00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:40,546 Maybe drugs or whatever. 278 00:14:41,506 --> 00:14:43,841 The name of Jamie's shop was Illusions. 279 00:14:45,176 --> 00:14:47,220 We was there a lot at night 'cause, you know, 280 00:14:47,303 --> 00:14:49,597 Jamie did a lot of his secret business there, 281 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,183 you know, making his money on the side there. 282 00:14:52,266 --> 00:14:55,186 His international house of business. 283 00:15:01,275 --> 00:15:03,820 He would mix all kinds of powder 284 00:15:04,779 --> 00:15:06,030 besides hair chemical. 285 00:15:06,781 --> 00:15:08,574 I tell you, he was our coke and meth dealer. 286 00:15:09,242 --> 00:15:11,077 I mean, I can tell you from experience of me, 287 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,329 you know, I was addicted to meth for many years. 288 00:15:13,413 --> 00:15:16,082 Started doing meth and coke, 289 00:15:16,165 --> 00:15:19,293 15, 14-year-old, and with Jamie, you know, 290 00:15:19,377 --> 00:15:20,878 Tyloxes, smoking weed, 291 00:15:20,962 --> 00:15:23,297 doing ecstasy, whatever I could get with him. 292 00:15:23,381 --> 00:15:25,758 Oh yeah, we've partied together. We've... 293 00:15:25,842 --> 00:15:28,845 we've been stupid. I've been a stupid mother, but-- 294 00:15:28,928 --> 00:15:31,722 Not really a stupid mother. She was a fun mother. 295 00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:35,810 But when I would party with Jamie, 296 00:15:35,893 --> 00:15:39,605 I would carry around his little bag of his stash, whatever, 297 00:15:39,689 --> 00:15:41,232 and I would sell it for him. 298 00:15:41,315 --> 00:15:42,608 They'd be like, "Gimme a 10." 299 00:15:42,692 --> 00:15:44,318 And I'd give 'em a little $10 bag or whatever. 300 00:15:44,402 --> 00:15:46,070 He used to have those cute little meth bags 301 00:15:46,154 --> 00:15:48,364 that had little cherries on 'em. You knew they were Jamie's. 302 00:15:48,448 --> 00:15:50,241 You'd find one laying around in Paintsville, empty, 303 00:15:50,324 --> 00:15:51,659 and you'd say, "That's Jamie's." 304 00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:54,328 He'd tell people when we first walked in, 305 00:15:54,412 --> 00:15:56,372 "This is my fag hag. You don't mess with her, 306 00:15:56,456 --> 00:15:58,499 and everything's okay." He had your back. 307 00:15:58,583 --> 00:16:00,918 You were protected when you was with Jamie. 308 00:16:01,002 --> 00:16:02,670 Around here, Jamie was a protector. 309 00:16:02,753 --> 00:16:05,131 He was a provider, but he had to get away from here 310 00:16:05,214 --> 00:16:06,632 to make all the money 311 00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:08,634 that he brought back into this place. 312 00:16:08,718 --> 00:16:10,720 He thought that's the only way he would get accepted, 313 00:16:10,803 --> 00:16:12,847 when he got here, was to provide for people. 314 00:16:14,348 --> 00:16:16,517 It started with coke, 315 00:16:16,601 --> 00:16:19,479 and, Lord, it flowed like 316 00:16:19,562 --> 00:16:22,356 snow in the Alps there. 317 00:16:25,193 --> 00:16:28,404 Someone introduced Jamie to crack, 318 00:16:28,488 --> 00:16:30,781 and that's when it went downhill. 319 00:16:30,865 --> 00:16:33,242 Jamie lost the salon. Jamie lost the house. 320 00:16:33,326 --> 00:16:35,995 Jamie lost... Jamie lost Jamie. 321 00:16:36,746 --> 00:16:41,000 And then it went to methamphetamine. 322 00:16:41,501 --> 00:16:45,004 That's the last thing I know that he sold. 323 00:16:48,216 --> 00:16:51,177 I can remember Jamie coming to visit me once 324 00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:52,386 in my apartment 325 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:53,471 and... 326 00:16:55,223 --> 00:16:57,391 I look over and Jamie's in the floor 327 00:16:57,475 --> 00:16:59,310 and I said, "What are you doing? 328 00:16:59,393 --> 00:17:00,686 Get up." 329 00:17:02,438 --> 00:17:04,315 He said, "Bitch, I can't. 330 00:17:04,397 --> 00:17:05,483 I'm high." 331 00:17:05,566 --> 00:17:07,193 I said, "On what?" 332 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,365 I said, "Bitch, you're smoking cat litter." 333 00:17:12,448 --> 00:17:15,826 She said, "Dude, your cat shits rocks, girl, okay," she said. 334 00:17:17,411 --> 00:17:19,329 The meth that was around back then was stuff 335 00:17:19,413 --> 00:17:21,082 that you had to go away from here and get, 336 00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:23,000 so the town hadn't seen the stuff like that. 337 00:17:23,084 --> 00:17:24,167 Only the gay community. 338 00:17:24,252 --> 00:17:26,212 They call it high speed chicken feed, 339 00:17:26,295 --> 00:17:28,381 because around here, you know, everybody on it, 340 00:17:28,464 --> 00:17:30,132 it's just high speed when they're on it. 341 00:17:30,216 --> 00:17:32,009 -How do you explain it? -That's about it. 342 00:17:32,093 --> 00:17:34,720 Sums it up. You can-- you can do it all, and for days. 343 00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:37,348 There's no rest. You don't need no rest. 344 00:17:38,349 --> 00:17:40,935 It kind of decreases your inhibitions. 345 00:17:41,018 --> 00:17:44,814 It lets you put what you feel is your best foot forward, 346 00:17:44,897 --> 00:17:47,692 which it may not be, you know. 347 00:17:47,775 --> 00:17:50,403 And that was what the crystal meth of that time 348 00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:52,572 really done and took it-- 349 00:17:52,655 --> 00:17:54,031 That's how it took a hold 350 00:17:54,115 --> 00:17:56,117 of the small communities around here. 351 00:17:57,827 --> 00:18:00,246 This would be 13 and a half pounds of meth, 352 00:18:00,913 --> 00:18:03,416 almost enough to fill a giant bag of cat food. 353 00:18:03,499 --> 00:18:04,834 The drug epidemic 354 00:18:04,917 --> 00:18:07,086 reaching every corner of Louisville. 355 00:18:07,169 --> 00:18:09,880 The biggest meth bust in the city's history. 356 00:18:09,964 --> 00:18:12,550 Over 34 pounds of meth. 357 00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:15,511 What happened was crystal meth came in, 358 00:18:15,595 --> 00:18:17,388 then the scene changed. 359 00:18:18,306 --> 00:18:21,100 I can always tell when, uh, someone's doing meth. 360 00:18:21,183 --> 00:18:23,352 Their eyes are darting a lot. 361 00:18:23,436 --> 00:18:25,229 They move-- twitch a lot, move a lot. 362 00:18:25,313 --> 00:18:27,607 Very "tweaky," is the word, a tweak. 363 00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:28,858 They tweak a lot. 364 00:18:30,276 --> 00:18:33,821 We used to call, uh, crystal meth was called Tina, 365 00:18:34,405 --> 00:18:36,866 because Tina Turner's very popular 366 00:18:36,949 --> 00:18:38,701 and she would... 367 00:18:38,784 --> 00:18:40,995 You know, so we call it Tina. 368 00:18:41,078 --> 00:18:42,538 "Are we gonna do some Tina?" 369 00:18:42,622 --> 00:18:44,498 "Yeah, I... yeah, I think I'm gonna do some Tina tonight. 370 00:18:44,582 --> 00:18:47,001 I'll be alright, I'll be-- I'll be-- I'll be fine." 371 00:18:47,084 --> 00:18:48,461 You know. 372 00:18:48,544 --> 00:18:50,254 You can tell by the teeth... 373 00:18:51,380 --> 00:18:54,842 how the decay in the teeth and things like that from using meth. 374 00:18:54,925 --> 00:18:56,552 They chew on their cheek. 375 00:18:56,636 --> 00:18:59,263 Crystal meth made your inhibitions go away 376 00:18:59,347 --> 00:19:01,057 and-and people were like, 377 00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:03,351 "Yeah, I can take on the world," you know? 378 00:19:03,434 --> 00:19:04,810 And a lot of times it meant, 379 00:19:04,894 --> 00:19:07,104 "Yeah, I could take on the world." 380 00:19:21,369 --> 00:19:23,537 I wanted to get high and have sex. 381 00:19:23,621 --> 00:19:27,792 And so I got online and, um, me and Jamie hooked up. 382 00:19:33,172 --> 00:19:35,424 He came over to the hotel room that I was at, 383 00:19:35,508 --> 00:19:40,221 and we had sex on like 15 ounces of crystal meth 384 00:19:40,304 --> 00:19:43,891 and, uh, had a blast. 385 00:19:45,601 --> 00:19:50,690 During that time, I also met Jase online, um, 386 00:19:50,773 --> 00:19:54,318 late night, after clubbing, um, 387 00:19:54,402 --> 00:19:57,947 messaged each other off of Adam4Adam. 388 00:19:58,030 --> 00:20:01,242 He and I were both high on crystal meth. 389 00:20:01,742 --> 00:20:04,203 The first time Joey and I met, we did drugs, 390 00:20:04,286 --> 00:20:06,956 which was very exciting sexually. 391 00:20:07,665 --> 00:20:10,418 He loved, loved, loved 392 00:20:10,501 --> 00:20:14,672 latex, rubber, gear, forced chemicals, bondage, 393 00:20:14,755 --> 00:20:17,842 all things that were new to me that he got me to try. 394 00:20:29,812 --> 00:20:32,440 I don't know the best way to describe it, but it makes-- 395 00:20:32,523 --> 00:20:34,775 it basically makes you incredibly horny. 396 00:20:35,651 --> 00:20:37,528 He was into bondage 397 00:20:37,611 --> 00:20:39,947 and I liked having threesomes. 398 00:21:01,385 --> 00:21:05,556 That's how Jamie, Jase, and I ended up having that three-way. 399 00:21:14,148 --> 00:21:16,650 I guess you probably would hear a lot of people say this, 400 00:21:16,734 --> 00:21:19,111 but, like, I don't have a problem being high 401 00:21:19,195 --> 00:21:21,697 and, like, knowing what's going on. 402 00:21:22,531 --> 00:21:24,784 Jeffrey Mundt was one of those people 403 00:21:24,867 --> 00:21:27,661 who absolutely loses touch with reality, 404 00:21:27,745 --> 00:21:30,831 um, being high on crystal meth. 405 00:21:33,417 --> 00:21:37,838 Jase is having a, I guess, toxic reaction 406 00:21:37,922 --> 00:21:40,925 to something he ate or not being able to eat. 407 00:21:41,008 --> 00:21:43,177 See, he's passed out in the bed 408 00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:45,346 after trying to clean up the room. 409 00:21:52,478 --> 00:21:55,523 They're off in the Kentucky Derby! 410 00:21:56,899 --> 00:21:59,235 Attorneys deliver opening arguments 411 00:21:59,318 --> 00:22:01,403 in a love triangle murder case. 412 00:22:01,487 --> 00:22:04,156 "In May, right after the Kentucky Derby, 413 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,158 Jeffrey Mundt stood trial. 414 00:22:06,826 --> 00:22:09,203 Joey Banis had already been found guilty 415 00:22:09,286 --> 00:22:10,788 for the murder of Jamie Carroll." 416 00:22:10,871 --> 00:22:12,456 Accused killer Jeffrey Mundt 417 00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:13,958 scheduled to be in court today. 418 00:22:14,834 --> 00:22:16,836 "Once again, Judge Mitch Perry 419 00:22:16,919 --> 00:22:18,546 presided in the courtroom, 420 00:22:18,629 --> 00:22:22,132 and familiar figures sat at the table for the prosecution." 421 00:22:22,216 --> 00:22:25,344 Three men entered, two men leave. 422 00:22:26,387 --> 00:22:29,765 "But the defense team had a markedly different makeup." 423 00:22:29,849 --> 00:22:32,268 What he just told you is a lie and you'll know it. 424 00:22:32,351 --> 00:22:36,188 "Dramatically, Romines went to the Rubbermaid storage bin 425 00:22:36,272 --> 00:22:38,065 and rolled it to the side 426 00:22:38,148 --> 00:22:39,650 as if to convey to the jury 427 00:22:39,733 --> 00:22:42,862 that he and everybody else recognized it 428 00:22:42,945 --> 00:22:44,613 as a cheap gimmick." 429 00:22:44,697 --> 00:22:46,782 It's easy to defend a case 430 00:22:46,866 --> 00:22:50,286 when your defense is the truth. 431 00:22:50,369 --> 00:22:53,289 We'll prove to you before this trial is over, 432 00:22:53,372 --> 00:22:55,374 Jeff Mundt is innocent. 433 00:22:55,457 --> 00:22:57,710 I know Steve from some of the cases 434 00:22:57,793 --> 00:23:00,713 he has in my courtroom. I call him "Big Money." 435 00:23:01,463 --> 00:23:02,464 Yes. 436 00:23:02,548 --> 00:23:06,385 Steve Romines is one of the more well-paid, 437 00:23:06,468 --> 00:23:09,388 well-known criminal defense attorneys. 438 00:23:09,471 --> 00:23:12,558 There are certain type of cases that I prefer not to take. 439 00:23:12,641 --> 00:23:15,436 The first is, and, you know, 440 00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:17,646 this is a sad reality how it is, 441 00:23:17,730 --> 00:23:20,566 can they afford to defend the case properly? 442 00:23:20,649 --> 00:23:21,859 He wins a lot. 443 00:23:21,942 --> 00:23:23,819 Jeff Mundt is innocent 444 00:23:23,903 --> 00:23:26,363 and we'll prove to you that they know it. 445 00:23:27,281 --> 00:23:30,409 He acts exactly like a very high-priced lawyer should act. 446 00:23:30,492 --> 00:23:32,786 They have had the evidence in their hands 447 00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:36,040 and they have either ignored it, they have disregarded it, 448 00:23:36,123 --> 00:23:37,583 or they have hidden it. 449 00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:40,794 Doesn't come any more theatrical than that. 450 00:23:40,878 --> 00:23:42,504 That's what you're paying him for. 451 00:23:42,588 --> 00:23:43,923 You're gonna get the whole truth. 452 00:23:44,006 --> 00:23:45,883 In fact, you're gonna start it this afternoon. 453 00:23:46,842 --> 00:23:49,053 Joey Banis's own words. 454 00:23:49,136 --> 00:23:50,512 Let's hear 'em. 455 00:23:51,555 --> 00:23:53,891 I'm recording my death for the purpose 456 00:23:53,974 --> 00:23:56,810 of informing all informed-- or all concerned 457 00:23:56,894 --> 00:23:58,479 of my own willful suicide 458 00:23:58,562 --> 00:24:02,524 and the complete non-involvement or culpability of anyone else, 459 00:24:02,608 --> 00:24:05,986 specifically of my boyfriend, lover, life partner, and friend, 460 00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:07,988 my one, Jeffrey Steven Mundt. 461 00:24:09,156 --> 00:24:13,160 We felt like that was the-the single most powerful piece 462 00:24:13,243 --> 00:24:14,995 of evidence in the entire case. 463 00:24:18,999 --> 00:24:20,960 This includes killing someone. 464 00:24:22,002 --> 00:24:23,587 It's a confession. 465 00:24:23,671 --> 00:24:27,132 He's confessing to the murder, and he's confessing 466 00:24:27,216 --> 00:24:29,093 to threatening Jeff about it, 467 00:24:29,176 --> 00:24:32,221 to holding Jeff hostage, to violence against Jeff. 468 00:24:32,304 --> 00:24:38,060 The police and the prosecution had this the entire time 469 00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:40,062 and they had never seen it 470 00:24:40,145 --> 00:24:42,856 until I showed it to the jury in opening statement. 471 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,068 You clearly had not reviewed his videos. 472 00:24:46,151 --> 00:24:48,779 -No, sir. -Some of this information 473 00:24:48,862 --> 00:24:51,240 would've been helpful in retrospect. Wouldn't it? 474 00:24:51,323 --> 00:24:53,492 Sir, it would've been-- it would've been very helpful. 475 00:24:54,368 --> 00:24:58,539 The reason why, and it's simple now, uh, 476 00:24:58,622 --> 00:25:01,959 the police's forensic evaluation of the computers 477 00:25:02,042 --> 00:25:04,962 were done with PCs, 478 00:25:05,045 --> 00:25:09,967 and that video was filmed on a Apple or Mac. 479 00:25:11,719 --> 00:25:15,055 I'm thinking, okay, well, this is-- this is a slam dunk. 480 00:25:15,139 --> 00:25:17,433 You've got this guy saying he's-he's doing it, 481 00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:20,310 he's gonna commit suicide, he's clearing his lover. 482 00:25:20,394 --> 00:25:22,271 But then when it got back to the prosecutors 483 00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:23,731 a few days later, they come back, 484 00:25:23,814 --> 00:25:25,190 "Wait, there's a start to this." 485 00:25:25,274 --> 00:25:26,650 I guess at this point, Judge, I would move 486 00:25:26,734 --> 00:25:28,360 for admission of that, permission to play it. 487 00:25:28,444 --> 00:25:30,696 And, Judge, let's-let's not make some misimpression. 488 00:25:30,779 --> 00:25:32,197 There are three different videos. 489 00:25:32,281 --> 00:25:34,408 -It's not like-- -Judge, can we approach? 490 00:25:35,951 --> 00:25:38,120 There's three separate videos at this time. 491 00:25:38,203 --> 00:25:39,872 The impression was given that there's-- 492 00:25:39,955 --> 00:25:42,499 that somehow we cut one of them off or whatever. 493 00:25:42,583 --> 00:25:44,376 Three clips on the same day? 494 00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:47,463 Yeah, but again, there-- it's not like we-we somehow 495 00:25:47,546 --> 00:25:49,757 edited it out or anything like that. 496 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,927 The defense for Mr. Mundt only played a portion of the video. 497 00:25:54,011 --> 00:25:57,222 And there is no doubt that they did not play the beginning part 498 00:25:57,306 --> 00:25:59,683 that was not that beneficial to them. 499 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:01,727 Go ahead. 500 00:26:11,195 --> 00:26:12,488 Hello? 501 00:26:17,326 --> 00:26:18,327 Alright. 502 00:26:19,620 --> 00:26:21,288 Okay, class. 503 00:26:23,248 --> 00:26:27,878 So this is Joey's explanation of what he says happened 504 00:26:27,961 --> 00:26:30,589 during the recording of that video. 505 00:26:33,967 --> 00:26:36,512 "This is a check to see if the video camera 506 00:26:36,595 --> 00:26:38,180 is recording correctly 507 00:26:38,263 --> 00:26:41,934 and setting it up for the 'Suicidal Farewell.' 508 00:26:42,017 --> 00:26:43,227 I was sick of Jase 509 00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:45,145 and didn't want to be with him anymore. 510 00:26:45,229 --> 00:26:47,106 Jase would not let me go. 511 00:26:47,189 --> 00:26:49,441 He had threatened me and threatened my family. 512 00:26:50,025 --> 00:26:52,861 The only way was to completely absolve him 513 00:26:52,945 --> 00:26:54,446 of all responsibility. 514 00:26:54,530 --> 00:26:57,491 So Jase wrote out a script and told me to read it in front 515 00:26:57,574 --> 00:27:00,619 of the flip video camera connected to my computer." 516 00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:04,665 "I am sorry for any pain that this causes." 517 00:27:23,016 --> 00:27:24,226 Mm-hmm. 518 00:27:27,604 --> 00:27:29,773 You can see who's in charge. 519 00:27:29,857 --> 00:27:32,317 You can see who's making this happen, 520 00:27:32,401 --> 00:27:37,156 and it, uh, it clearly is not Mr. Banis. 521 00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:41,535 You have Mundt almost seeming to dictate 522 00:27:41,618 --> 00:27:43,328 what Banis was gonna say. 523 00:27:43,412 --> 00:27:45,164 So you're right back to the start 524 00:27:45,247 --> 00:27:47,416 of who-who is guilty here? 525 00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:49,710 Every time you thought you knew, you didn't really know. 526 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:55,966 A big twist today 527 00:27:56,049 --> 00:27:58,135 as the trial continues for the second man charged... 528 00:27:58,218 --> 00:28:01,305 Joseph Banis expected to testify against Jeffrey Mundt. 529 00:28:01,388 --> 00:28:02,764 "The courtroom perked up 530 00:28:02,848 --> 00:28:05,267 when Bailiff Brown escorted Joey Banis 531 00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:08,061 in an orange jumpsuit to the stand. 532 00:28:08,145 --> 00:28:11,398 As Banis passed in front of the defense table, 533 00:28:11,481 --> 00:28:15,611 he gave his ex-boyfriend a strange lovesick look." 534 00:28:16,195 --> 00:28:18,322 Banis agreed to testify in exchange 535 00:28:18,405 --> 00:28:20,657 for prosecutors dropping the death penalty. 536 00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:22,826 He was the prosecution's star witness, 537 00:28:22,910 --> 00:28:24,411 just like Jeff was 538 00:28:24,494 --> 00:28:26,788 the prosecution's star witness in Joey's case. 539 00:28:26,872 --> 00:28:28,790 Do you swear and affirm the testimony you're about to give 540 00:28:28,874 --> 00:28:30,375 will be the truth and the whole truth? 541 00:28:30,459 --> 00:28:32,711 -Yes, I do, Your Honor. -Alright. Go ahead. 542 00:28:32,794 --> 00:28:35,464 Introduce yourself to the members of the jury, please. 543 00:28:35,547 --> 00:28:37,674 My name is Joseph Richard Banis. 544 00:28:37,758 --> 00:28:41,428 One of the things that we intended to introduce 545 00:28:41,511 --> 00:28:44,097 was Jeffrey's testimony from Joey's trial, 546 00:28:44,181 --> 00:28:46,350 so that the jury could hear his testimony, 547 00:28:46,433 --> 00:28:48,268 his version of events. 548 00:28:48,352 --> 00:28:50,646 If the jury in Jeffrey Mundt's trial 549 00:28:50,729 --> 00:28:52,814 would've been able to hear both sides, 550 00:28:52,898 --> 00:28:55,525 they would've been able to see the whole story. 551 00:28:56,443 --> 00:28:58,070 But the court did not allow that to happen. 552 00:28:58,153 --> 00:29:01,240 What happened on December 14th, 2009? 553 00:29:01,323 --> 00:29:03,075 We're all getting it on. 554 00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:05,369 We were comfortable. We were in bed together. 555 00:29:05,452 --> 00:29:08,413 The three of us started, you know, watching porn 556 00:29:08,497 --> 00:29:10,332 and, you know, some music was on 557 00:29:10,415 --> 00:29:13,126 and we were playing around in the bed and so forth. 558 00:29:13,210 --> 00:29:16,505 Jeff suggested that he still had some money 559 00:29:16,588 --> 00:29:19,967 that he would like to spend, and since the drugs were good, 560 00:29:20,050 --> 00:29:21,969 could Jamie get him some more? 561 00:29:22,052 --> 00:29:24,471 And Jamie said, "Oh yeah, sure." 562 00:29:24,554 --> 00:29:26,390 When Jamie was gone, 563 00:29:28,058 --> 00:29:29,518 Jeff asked, 564 00:29:29,601 --> 00:29:31,561 "Do you think anybody would miss Jamie? 565 00:29:31,645 --> 00:29:33,313 We could just take his drugs." 566 00:29:33,397 --> 00:29:35,148 When Jamie came back in, 567 00:29:35,232 --> 00:29:37,150 we decided we were gonna play together, 568 00:29:37,234 --> 00:29:38,235 have sex together. 569 00:29:40,862 --> 00:29:42,489 After we were done, 570 00:29:42,572 --> 00:29:44,992 I got up to get dressed. 571 00:29:45,075 --> 00:29:47,160 I heard a noise, and when I turned around, 572 00:29:47,244 --> 00:29:49,288 Jamie and Jeff were struggling, 573 00:29:49,371 --> 00:29:52,416 and they tumbled to the floor. 574 00:29:52,499 --> 00:29:55,043 They started struggling. I was still thinking 575 00:29:55,127 --> 00:29:57,254 this was some type of sex scene that was going on 576 00:29:57,337 --> 00:29:59,214 because that was one of the things we did 577 00:29:59,298 --> 00:30:00,424 involving in role-play. 578 00:30:00,507 --> 00:30:02,634 Jamie yelled out, "Joey, Joey, help me." 579 00:30:02,718 --> 00:30:06,805 Jamie started screaming, "No, Joey, no, no, no, please, no." 580 00:30:06,888 --> 00:30:08,890 I saw blood flying 581 00:30:08,974 --> 00:30:10,934 and I saw a knife in Jeff's hands. 582 00:30:11,018 --> 00:30:12,978 Joey had a knife in his hand 583 00:30:13,061 --> 00:30:15,314 and was slashing at Jamie's throat. 584 00:30:15,897 --> 00:30:19,109 There was blood that was literally everywhere. 585 00:30:19,192 --> 00:30:20,819 I mean, you could actually smell the blood. 586 00:30:20,902 --> 00:30:24,072 And I don't know where Jeff pulled it from, 587 00:30:24,156 --> 00:30:27,534 but he got a gun and it was the .38 Smith & Wesson. 588 00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:30,829 Joey takes several steps back and grabs a gun. 589 00:30:30,912 --> 00:30:32,331 And he shot Jamie. 590 00:30:32,414 --> 00:30:34,750 And Joey shot him, I believe twice. 591 00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:38,879 I thought Jeff was perhaps going to shoot me. 592 00:30:38,962 --> 00:30:41,923 He said he would kill me and kill my family. 593 00:30:42,007 --> 00:30:45,218 He would go and kill my family and kill my cats. 594 00:30:46,053 --> 00:30:48,472 Threatening Jeff's cats. 595 00:30:48,555 --> 00:30:50,474 That's now a crime in Kentucky. 596 00:30:50,557 --> 00:30:52,434 Threatening the pets of someone 597 00:30:52,517 --> 00:30:54,353 you're in a domestic relationship with 598 00:30:54,436 --> 00:30:56,772 is now a crime, because that has shown 599 00:30:56,855 --> 00:30:59,441 our evolving understanding of the dynamics 600 00:30:59,524 --> 00:31:01,610 of domestic violence and sexual abuse. 601 00:31:03,987 --> 00:31:07,074 Jase said that we were gonna wait till Home Depot 602 00:31:07,157 --> 00:31:08,283 or Lowe's opened, 603 00:31:08,367 --> 00:31:10,619 go there, get a plastic tub, 604 00:31:11,411 --> 00:31:12,954 get some lime. 605 00:31:13,038 --> 00:31:15,707 Joey was worried that it might start to smell, 606 00:31:15,791 --> 00:31:17,959 and I suggested sprinkling lime. 607 00:31:18,043 --> 00:31:20,629 I didn't even know what the hell lime was, 608 00:31:20,712 --> 00:31:22,798 but he's familiar with it 609 00:31:22,881 --> 00:31:25,050 from, uh, gardening 610 00:31:25,133 --> 00:31:27,719 and from some movie where it's used 611 00:31:27,803 --> 00:31:31,014 to cover up the smell of decaying bodies. 612 00:31:32,224 --> 00:31:35,602 We got some type of cordage, some type of rope, 613 00:31:35,685 --> 00:31:38,522 something to help, you know, close the box 614 00:31:38,605 --> 00:31:40,148 that he was gonna be put in. 615 00:31:40,232 --> 00:31:42,943 Jamie's body had gone into rigor mortis. 616 00:31:43,026 --> 00:31:44,903 And I held the body. 617 00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:49,157 He sledgehammered Jamie's, uh, kneecaps. 618 00:31:49,950 --> 00:31:52,536 Joey hit him with a sledgehammer 619 00:31:52,619 --> 00:31:54,621 so that the bones broke 620 00:31:55,539 --> 00:31:58,375 and I guess the muscles relaxed and moved, whatever, 621 00:31:58,458 --> 00:32:01,420 and he was put into the container. 622 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,552 I don't remember it being a particularly difficult task. 623 00:32:10,011 --> 00:32:12,514 Jeffrey's testimony from trial one, 624 00:32:12,597 --> 00:32:15,600 it did paint him in more of an accurate light. 625 00:32:15,684 --> 00:32:18,270 He was cold, self-serving, and calculating. 626 00:32:18,353 --> 00:32:21,356 And because we weren't able to show the real testimony, 627 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,233 the real him in that way, 628 00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:25,402 I think that that hurt us. 629 00:32:25,986 --> 00:32:27,237 Alright. Let's keep going. 630 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,281 Mr. Banis, you are a thief, 631 00:32:29,364 --> 00:32:31,950 you're a drug dealer, you are a murderer, 632 00:32:32,033 --> 00:32:34,161 and you are a liar, correct? 633 00:32:34,244 --> 00:32:35,328 No. 634 00:32:35,412 --> 00:32:38,623 Now, you told Detective Lesher 635 00:32:38,707 --> 00:32:40,709 the night that you were arrested 636 00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:43,128 that he worked for the NSA 637 00:32:43,211 --> 00:32:46,840 and was a secret agent slash assassin, didn't you? 638 00:32:47,424 --> 00:32:50,343 Mr. Mundt had told me that in the past 639 00:32:50,427 --> 00:32:52,721 he had worked for the US government 640 00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:54,848 and he told me that it was for the NSA. 641 00:32:54,931 --> 00:32:57,058 You're just making stuff up, aren't you? 642 00:32:57,142 --> 00:32:59,186 How-- your client is the one who told-- 643 00:32:59,269 --> 00:33:01,188 where did he get a bullet in his head 644 00:33:01,271 --> 00:33:02,856 -in Bratislava? -The NSA-- 645 00:33:02,939 --> 00:33:05,317 That's why I never knew what to believe or not to believe. 646 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,110 You know what not to believe? 647 00:33:07,194 --> 00:33:09,196 -Okay, tell me. -You. 648 00:33:13,992 --> 00:33:17,329 A lurid Louisville murder trial took yet another turn today... 649 00:33:17,412 --> 00:33:19,748 Plenty of other lurid details coming out. 650 00:33:19,831 --> 00:33:21,917 "Conroy continued to work her way 651 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,253 through the evidence, then brought up the sex tape." 652 00:33:25,337 --> 00:33:29,132 Have you reviewed, prior to your testimony here today, 653 00:33:29,216 --> 00:33:33,470 a video where Joseph Banis and Jeffrey Mundt 654 00:33:33,553 --> 00:33:35,555 are engaged in sexual relations 655 00:33:35,639 --> 00:33:37,182 after the murder of Jamie Carroll? 656 00:33:37,265 --> 00:33:38,850 Yes, ma'am. I did. 657 00:33:38,934 --> 00:33:40,393 It's about 12 minutes long. 658 00:33:40,477 --> 00:33:42,103 May stop it before the end of it. 659 00:33:42,187 --> 00:33:44,064 Judge, may we approach before this one is played? 660 00:33:44,147 --> 00:33:45,941 This is designed to do nothing more 661 00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:48,568 than to inflame the passions of the jury. 662 00:33:48,652 --> 00:33:51,112 How graphic is it? How much do you intend to play? 663 00:33:51,196 --> 00:33:53,657 Not-not much. I mean, this is not necessarily 664 00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:55,700 what I want to do on a Wednesday afternoon, 665 00:33:55,784 --> 00:33:57,452 but it's about the nature of the relationship. 666 00:33:57,536 --> 00:33:59,037 The evidence is what the evidence is. 667 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,498 The-the argument that a sexual relationship 668 00:34:01,581 --> 00:34:04,417 between an abused person and an abuser 669 00:34:04,501 --> 00:34:07,587 somehow influences that relationship 670 00:34:07,671 --> 00:34:09,172 is-is-is absurd. 671 00:34:09,255 --> 00:34:10,590 The only purpose is 672 00:34:10,674 --> 00:34:13,426 we have straight people, straight men on the jury, 673 00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:16,471 and it's to inflame the jurors against Mr. Mundt 674 00:34:16,554 --> 00:34:18,139 with this graphic sexual testimony. 675 00:34:18,223 --> 00:34:19,766 I've asked the Commonwealth 676 00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:21,893 if there's any way to avoid the graphic nature of this. 677 00:34:21,976 --> 00:34:23,603 -There's not? -Not on this one. 678 00:34:23,687 --> 00:34:26,565 I'm going to allow you to do it. Alright. 679 00:34:28,358 --> 00:34:29,525 It's raw. 680 00:34:29,609 --> 00:34:31,110 It is raw. 681 00:34:32,696 --> 00:34:34,822 -You're gonna ride it, Joey? -I'm gonna ride it 682 00:34:34,906 --> 00:34:37,659 or else you're gonna fucking pile-drive it. 683 00:34:37,742 --> 00:34:39,619 I might be able to do that. 684 00:34:44,456 --> 00:34:46,458 "Ears reddening, Jeffrey Mundt 685 00:34:46,543 --> 00:34:49,713 looked straight ahead for the entire length of the clip 686 00:34:49,795 --> 00:34:52,674 as the jury and everyone else in the courtroom 687 00:34:52,757 --> 00:34:56,553 watched Joey and Jeffrey have sex on the screen." 688 00:34:57,721 --> 00:35:00,307 -Who's your bitch? -You're my fucking bitch. 689 00:35:00,390 --> 00:35:02,726 -Huh? -Joey's my fucking bitch. 690 00:35:02,809 --> 00:35:04,561 My little bottom bitch. 691 00:35:04,644 --> 00:35:06,229 He's your what? 692 00:35:06,313 --> 00:35:08,315 Little bottom bitch boy. 693 00:35:08,398 --> 00:35:11,318 Can stick my cock in his ass whenever the fuck I want. 694 00:35:11,401 --> 00:35:12,986 Ride him. 695 00:35:13,069 --> 00:35:14,863 Make him ride my fucking cock. 696 00:35:14,946 --> 00:35:15,947 Hmm? 697 00:35:16,656 --> 00:35:18,325 Jeff doesn't appear distressed. 698 00:35:18,408 --> 00:35:19,534 Jeff isn't crying. 699 00:35:19,618 --> 00:35:21,953 Jeff isn't begging for-for Joey to stop. 700 00:35:22,537 --> 00:35:24,456 You need to lift your ass up. 701 00:35:24,539 --> 00:35:26,541 If anything, it was Jeffrey Mundt 702 00:35:26,625 --> 00:35:29,544 who was directing what was going to happen 703 00:35:29,628 --> 00:35:31,963 and calling the shots. 704 00:35:32,047 --> 00:35:34,507 They wanted to show that Jeff was a top 705 00:35:34,591 --> 00:35:36,926 and that therefore he could not have been 706 00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:39,554 the victim of an abusive relationship. 707 00:35:39,638 --> 00:35:42,182 Which any-- that's bullshit. 708 00:35:42,265 --> 00:35:44,684 You like videotaping your bitch? 709 00:35:44,768 --> 00:35:46,102 Fuck yeah. 710 00:35:48,021 --> 00:35:50,649 Everybody that was in the courtroom was texting, 711 00:35:50,732 --> 00:35:54,235 "They're playing porn in division three, 712 00:35:54,319 --> 00:35:56,154 you better get here now." 713 00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:02,952 After the first... ten seconds or so, 714 00:36:03,036 --> 00:36:04,579 it was like, "Okay, we've seen enough. 715 00:36:04,663 --> 00:36:06,831 Do we really have to see all of this?" 716 00:36:08,124 --> 00:36:09,793 You would've heard a pin drop. 717 00:36:09,876 --> 00:36:12,087 It was such an uncomfortable moment. 718 00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:14,089 The little bitch bottom boy you are. 719 00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:17,884 We stopped it before Jeffrey Mundt said the N word. 720 00:36:18,843 --> 00:36:23,473 We thought that that would be crossing the line 721 00:36:23,556 --> 00:36:25,809 and risk offending people. 722 00:36:25,892 --> 00:36:29,229 Alright. I need a break. 723 00:36:29,312 --> 00:36:32,315 It's very hard to defend somebody you believe is innocent 724 00:36:32,399 --> 00:36:34,526 when there are salacious facts. 725 00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:37,445 I'm not sure why sex is any more offensive 726 00:36:37,529 --> 00:36:39,364 than stabbing and shooting a person. 727 00:36:39,447 --> 00:36:42,867 The dominant narrative here was that Jeff didn't participate 728 00:36:42,951 --> 00:36:44,786 in any of this willingly. 729 00:36:47,914 --> 00:36:51,418 "Romines then had LeTonia Jones on the stand, 730 00:36:51,501 --> 00:36:54,462 an advocacy programs administrator for nine years 731 00:36:54,546 --> 00:36:57,090 with the Kentucky Domestic Violence Association 732 00:36:57,173 --> 00:36:59,342 in Frankfort. She established..." 733 00:36:59,426 --> 00:37:01,845 "...that Jeffrey Mundt displayed all the signs 734 00:37:01,928 --> 00:37:03,638 of a typical battered spouse." 735 00:37:04,347 --> 00:37:06,850 I was called as an educational witness. 736 00:37:06,933 --> 00:37:08,727 My purpose was to educate the jury 737 00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:12,480 about the dynamics of domestic violence. 738 00:37:13,064 --> 00:37:15,525 Putting on that evidence was important 739 00:37:15,608 --> 00:37:17,444 so that the jury would know the truth 740 00:37:17,527 --> 00:37:22,490 of what a traumatic, abusive relationship is. 741 00:37:22,574 --> 00:37:24,909 These relationships 742 00:37:24,993 --> 00:37:26,661 where there is violence 743 00:37:26,745 --> 00:37:30,498 and where power and control sits at the heart 744 00:37:30,582 --> 00:37:32,083 don't make a lot of sense 745 00:37:32,167 --> 00:37:34,794 to people who are not inside of those relationships. 746 00:37:35,462 --> 00:37:37,547 Her relevance to the whole thing 747 00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:40,133 was marginal at best because 748 00:37:40,216 --> 00:37:43,970 she was talking in theoretical domestic violence terms 749 00:37:44,053 --> 00:37:48,141 and not necessarily about anything specific to this case. 750 00:37:48,224 --> 00:37:50,143 So if I came to you and I said, 751 00:37:50,226 --> 00:37:52,645 "Well, this guy claims he's being battered, 752 00:37:52,729 --> 00:37:54,355 but I've got a video of them having sex--" 753 00:37:54,439 --> 00:37:56,107 Your Honor, may we approach? 754 00:37:56,191 --> 00:38:00,487 It would be improper for an expert of any type 755 00:38:00,570 --> 00:38:02,989 to testify to the ultimate issue. 756 00:38:03,072 --> 00:38:04,783 That would be the legal phrase. 757 00:38:04,866 --> 00:38:08,536 So to ask, "Is Jeffrey Mundt a victim of domestic violence?" 758 00:38:08,620 --> 00:38:10,371 You can't ask her that. 759 00:38:10,455 --> 00:38:12,290 I'll withdraw the question, Judge. 760 00:38:12,373 --> 00:38:14,584 Um, no. May we approach? Thank you. 761 00:38:14,667 --> 00:38:16,085 I want an admonishment to the jury. 762 00:38:16,169 --> 00:38:18,338 He did that on purpose, and you know that he did. 763 00:38:18,421 --> 00:38:19,964 I want an admonishment. 764 00:38:20,048 --> 00:38:21,382 Ongoing sexual relationship 765 00:38:21,466 --> 00:38:22,550 is not controversial. 766 00:38:22,634 --> 00:38:24,093 It's not cutting-edge theory. 767 00:38:24,177 --> 00:38:26,221 It is accepted in this area of expertise. 768 00:38:26,304 --> 00:38:27,639 -Counsel? -Yes, sir. 769 00:38:27,722 --> 00:38:31,017 You became very close 770 00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:34,729 to simply defying this court in an inappropriate fashion. 771 00:38:34,813 --> 00:38:36,606 The question was so suggestive 772 00:38:36,689 --> 00:38:38,733 of the facts and evidence in this case. 773 00:38:38,817 --> 00:38:41,319 I cannot imagine why you did what you did. 774 00:38:41,402 --> 00:38:43,154 -Alright, step back. -Sorry. 775 00:38:44,155 --> 00:38:45,698 Ladies and gentlemen, 776 00:38:45,782 --> 00:38:48,451 please disregard that last question and answer. 777 00:38:48,535 --> 00:38:50,411 The facts of this particular case 778 00:38:50,495 --> 00:38:52,372 will be decided by you and you only. 779 00:38:53,665 --> 00:38:56,125 You can't un-ring a bell. 780 00:38:56,209 --> 00:39:01,005 When a judge tells jurors to forget what they just heard, 781 00:39:01,089 --> 00:39:03,591 if they were bored before the judge said that, 782 00:39:03,675 --> 00:39:06,386 I guarantee you that they're interested now. 783 00:39:09,472 --> 00:39:11,266 Both sides rested their case today. 784 00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:12,642 -It was day nine... -Closing arguments 785 00:39:12,725 --> 00:39:13,768 are currently underway. 786 00:39:13,852 --> 00:39:15,270 If you are a victim, 787 00:39:15,353 --> 00:39:17,856 if you are a witness, if you are a hostage, 788 00:39:17,939 --> 00:39:19,190 you act like it. 789 00:39:21,192 --> 00:39:23,069 It's the final chapter in a twisted tale 790 00:39:23,152 --> 00:39:25,071 -of sex, drugs, and murder. -We wanna take you live 791 00:39:25,154 --> 00:39:26,239 right now to the courthouse 792 00:39:26,322 --> 00:39:28,116 where we're about to get a verdict. 793 00:39:31,244 --> 00:39:33,204 Mr. Mundt, can you stand, please? 794 00:39:34,747 --> 00:39:35,874 Alright. 795 00:39:38,418 --> 00:39:42,046 "For murder, we the jury found the defendant, Jeffrey Mundt, 796 00:39:43,006 --> 00:39:44,507 not guilty." 797 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,886 A jury deliberated for nearly eight hours 798 00:39:47,969 --> 00:39:49,971 before finding a Louisville man not guilty 799 00:39:50,054 --> 00:39:52,098 of killing his former lover and drug dealer. 800 00:39:52,181 --> 00:39:53,933 I was just dumbstruck. 801 00:39:54,017 --> 00:39:55,935 Like, how in the hell did a jury 802 00:39:56,019 --> 00:39:58,605 find him not guilty of murder? 803 00:39:59,772 --> 00:40:01,608 They beat him with a sledgehammer, 804 00:40:01,691 --> 00:40:05,236 they stuff him in a Rubbermaid in their basement, 805 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,698 and for six months they live happily ever after. 806 00:40:10,408 --> 00:40:13,828 I still can't believe that he's not guilty. 807 00:40:13,912 --> 00:40:15,872 Jeffrey Mundt was convicted of lesser charges... 808 00:40:15,955 --> 00:40:17,290 Convicting him of robbery and tampering... 809 00:40:17,373 --> 00:40:18,875 Sentenced to three years for robbery 810 00:40:18,958 --> 00:40:20,460 and five years for tampering. 811 00:40:21,878 --> 00:40:24,255 The wrong message was sent here, 812 00:40:24,339 --> 00:40:27,800 which is that you can, in fact, get away with murder. 813 00:40:29,177 --> 00:40:31,596 The jury simply got it wrong. 814 00:40:37,143 --> 00:40:41,105 What happens in a courtroom? It's about winning and losing. 815 00:40:41,940 --> 00:40:45,109 Very rarely do we truly get 816 00:40:45,193 --> 00:40:47,946 an honest view of what happened. 817 00:40:48,696 --> 00:40:50,865 And that, for me, 818 00:40:50,949 --> 00:40:53,451 makes it difficult to trust a system 819 00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:55,453 that we would call a justice system. 820 00:41:05,630 --> 00:41:06,673 Follow me. 821 00:41:07,256 --> 00:41:09,300 So as we walk down the steps here, 822 00:41:09,384 --> 00:41:12,512 this basement is what I use for storage of my files. 823 00:41:12,595 --> 00:41:15,515 This was one of the exhibits that we showed at trial. 824 00:41:15,598 --> 00:41:18,434 Looking at that individual, that is not the individual 825 00:41:18,518 --> 00:41:20,436 that presented himself to that jury. 826 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,147 We know that's the real Mr. Mundt. 827 00:41:24,065 --> 00:41:25,483 That's the real Jeffrey. 828 00:41:27,652 --> 00:41:31,280 I was the only one that ever visited Jeff in jail. 829 00:41:31,364 --> 00:41:35,660 He kept promising me that he would tell me the full story, 830 00:41:35,743 --> 00:41:37,370 but he didn't wanna talk about it there. 831 00:41:37,453 --> 00:41:40,623 Of course, in jail, it's being recorded and all that. 832 00:41:40,707 --> 00:41:43,918 "Mundt made parole a year after his trial, 833 00:41:44,002 --> 00:41:48,172 having served just four years of his eight-year sentence." 834 00:41:50,425 --> 00:41:52,218 And when he got released, 835 00:41:52,301 --> 00:41:53,886 we went and picked him up 836 00:41:53,970 --> 00:41:55,471 and brought him back to Louisville. 837 00:41:55,555 --> 00:41:57,682 -And had lunch with his parents. -To his halfway house. 838 00:41:57,765 --> 00:42:00,977 No, we had lunch at, uh, Red Lobster. 839 00:42:01,060 --> 00:42:02,562 And then that was it. 840 00:42:03,771 --> 00:42:07,150 After he was paroled and basically served his time, 841 00:42:07,233 --> 00:42:08,735 he kind of disappeared, 842 00:42:08,818 --> 00:42:11,070 and no one even knows where he is today. 843 00:42:11,654 --> 00:42:13,489 So you don't know where he is. 844 00:42:13,573 --> 00:42:15,616 -Last I knew was Baltimore. -Last we heard, Baltimore. 845 00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:22,373 And he told me that he got a job at a movie theater 846 00:42:22,457 --> 00:42:25,960 and he would-- he wouldn't tell people he was from Louisville. 847 00:42:26,044 --> 00:42:28,921 And then slowly he stopped talking to me 848 00:42:29,005 --> 00:42:30,715 and then he ghosted me. 849 00:42:32,008 --> 00:42:33,092 Yeah. 850 00:42:33,176 --> 00:42:35,678 And I think that's what hurts the most. 851 00:42:36,721 --> 00:42:39,807 To think how I tried to be such a good friend 852 00:42:39,891 --> 00:42:41,934 and then all of a sudden, nothing. 853 00:42:43,311 --> 00:42:45,855 -Can I ask you a question? -Yeah. 854 00:42:45,938 --> 00:42:48,399 Have you been able to-to locate Jeff? 855 00:42:48,483 --> 00:42:50,985 No. I was gonna ask if you... 856 00:42:51,069 --> 00:42:52,779 do you know where he is? 857 00:42:52,862 --> 00:42:55,281 See, that's a lot of stuff that I just am not... 858 00:42:55,364 --> 00:42:57,700 and I don't mean to be a stick in the mud 859 00:42:57,784 --> 00:43:00,119 and I don't mean to be a lawyer's lawyer, uh, 860 00:43:00,203 --> 00:43:03,081 although I'm kind of proud of being that. Um... 861 00:43:03,164 --> 00:43:04,665 -I gotta go. -Yeah. 862 00:43:04,749 --> 00:43:07,668 I'm sorry. I hope I wasn't too circumspect. 863 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,838 Much like reading a book about it, 864 00:43:10,922 --> 00:43:12,381 Jeff's case is over for me. 865 00:43:12,465 --> 00:43:15,384 Much like a lot of clients, I don't keep up with him 866 00:43:15,468 --> 00:43:17,678 when-when my case with him is over. 867 00:43:17,762 --> 00:43:19,430 I assume he's doing well. 868 00:43:20,223 --> 00:43:23,476 So the question is, where is Jeffrey Mundt? 869 00:43:24,060 --> 00:43:25,436 Your guess is as good as mine, 870 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,939 but I will make an agreement with you. 871 00:43:28,022 --> 00:43:30,149 If you find him, you let me know. 872 00:43:30,233 --> 00:43:32,110 And if I find him, I'll let you know. 873 00:43:37,198 --> 00:43:39,492 This is a prepaid collect call from... 874 00:43:39,575 --> 00:43:42,078 -Joseph Banis. -...an incarcerated individual. 875 00:43:42,161 --> 00:43:44,956 This call will be recorded and may be monitored. 876 00:43:51,921 --> 00:43:55,299 Were you surprised that Jeffrey just disappeared? 877 00:43:56,175 --> 00:43:57,593 Uh, no. 878 00:43:57,677 --> 00:44:01,055 Doesn't surprise me that he could stay off the grid, 879 00:44:01,139 --> 00:44:05,059 uh, build up a new identity, any of those things. 880 00:44:05,143 --> 00:44:07,645 He told me that he did that type of stuff. 881 00:44:08,896 --> 00:44:12,650 Obviously I was disappointed because I'm in prison 882 00:44:12,733 --> 00:44:14,861 for something somebody else did. 883 00:44:17,321 --> 00:44:20,283 The laptop that we actually have here 884 00:44:20,366 --> 00:44:23,661 is a digital copy of Joey's laptop. 885 00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:27,248 In this case, 886 00:44:27,331 --> 00:44:29,584 with all the videoing they did of each other, 887 00:44:29,667 --> 00:44:32,086 it was overwhelming because, at that time, 888 00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:33,921 there was no digital forensic unit 889 00:44:34,005 --> 00:44:35,548 of the Louisville Metro Police Department. 890 00:44:35,631 --> 00:44:38,885 There wasn't a way to sift through all of that information. 891 00:44:39,969 --> 00:44:43,431 There's a lot of files, over 700,000 files. 892 00:44:43,514 --> 00:44:46,726 It was a one terabyte or tegabyte or... 893 00:44:46,809 --> 00:44:48,144 It was a big one. 894 00:44:48,227 --> 00:44:50,897 I clicked on every link that I could go through, 895 00:44:50,980 --> 00:44:53,524 but could not access anything on a Mac. 896 00:44:56,444 --> 00:44:59,280 I guarantee you there's information on his laptop 897 00:44:59,363 --> 00:45:00,865 that people haven't seen. 898 00:45:00,948 --> 00:45:02,200 I guarantee you that. 899 00:45:06,829 --> 00:45:10,458 You know, I had all kinds of little recording devices, 900 00:45:10,541 --> 00:45:13,669 and I was always trying to get him to, uh, 901 00:45:13,753 --> 00:45:15,963 admit what really happened. 902 00:45:24,055 --> 00:45:26,390 He was cagey as hell because, you know, I mean, 903 00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:27,683 he's in the background 904 00:45:27,767 --> 00:45:30,561 and not saying very much of anything. 905 00:45:54,168 --> 00:45:56,796 And what fucking-- what-- why-why-why is-- 906 00:46:19,819 --> 00:46:22,780 He kept on threatening me saying, uh, "Joey, uh, you'll-- 907 00:46:22,863 --> 00:46:24,991 you can never say anything to anybody about this 908 00:46:25,074 --> 00:46:26,867 because nobody will ever believe you 909 00:46:26,951 --> 00:46:29,328 because you have the criminal record, and I don't." 910 00:46:31,580 --> 00:46:34,625 It was, uh, it was not a healthy relationship. 911 00:47:11,454 --> 00:47:12,830 Joey missed me or something 912 00:47:12,913 --> 00:47:16,459 and wanted me to come back after Glow, 913 00:47:17,418 --> 00:47:20,463 and they had that new house in Old Louisville. 914 00:47:22,715 --> 00:47:26,552 And then I was Joey's assistant there for a while. 915 00:47:35,770 --> 00:47:39,148 When I first went to Joey and Jase's house, 916 00:47:39,231 --> 00:47:40,858 they took me down to the basement 917 00:47:40,941 --> 00:47:44,487 and to show me where the laundry room was and stuff. 918 00:47:46,739 --> 00:47:49,075 They tried to give me that guy's clothes 919 00:47:49,158 --> 00:47:51,827 and said that the guy had just basically left them there 920 00:47:51,911 --> 00:47:53,079 and went back home. 921 00:47:53,162 --> 00:47:54,830 He didn't want 'em, I guess, 922 00:47:54,914 --> 00:47:57,208 and they were a little big on me, obviously, 923 00:47:57,291 --> 00:47:59,543 um, so I was like, "No, I don't need 'em." 924 00:48:00,503 --> 00:48:03,255 It was kind of traumatizing to, like, think about, 925 00:48:03,339 --> 00:48:04,924 like, that I was there feeding cats 926 00:48:05,007 --> 00:48:06,675 and there was a dead body downstairs, 927 00:48:06,759 --> 00:48:08,719 and I just didn't know it yet. 928 00:48:12,181 --> 00:48:14,100 You know, that could have been me, 929 00:48:14,183 --> 00:48:17,520 and the way that, um, my life was going then, 930 00:48:17,603 --> 00:48:18,813 it almost was me. 931 00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:26,112 We started to hook up a few different times. 932 00:48:26,195 --> 00:48:29,073 But I would pull back because it just seemed weird, 933 00:48:29,156 --> 00:48:31,158 the two of them, their connection. 934 00:48:31,242 --> 00:48:33,285 Something weird was going on there. 935 00:48:33,369 --> 00:48:35,830 Like just the way they talk to each other. 936 00:48:35,913 --> 00:48:39,208 You could feel the tension between the two of them a lot. 937 00:48:52,888 --> 00:48:54,390 It's not closing. 938 00:48:59,687 --> 00:49:03,149 Every single bedroom had its own padlock. 939 00:49:03,232 --> 00:49:06,569 Like the key ring was just a bunch of padlock keys. 940 00:49:06,652 --> 00:49:09,280 Every single door had its own padlock. 941 00:49:09,864 --> 00:49:13,117 It was, um, very, very weird. 942 00:49:14,952 --> 00:49:19,248 Jeff had lost his job at the end of January, 943 00:49:19,331 --> 00:49:21,250 after the murder, 944 00:49:21,333 --> 00:49:25,004 and never put in a résumé for another job. 945 00:49:26,255 --> 00:49:29,758 You know, he was supposedly renovating this house, uh, 946 00:49:29,842 --> 00:49:32,178 turning it into a bed and breakfast. 947 00:49:33,387 --> 00:49:37,349 But basically, he was in serious debt. 948 00:49:38,809 --> 00:49:41,270 If they were planning to fix it up, they hadn't gotten far. 949 00:49:42,271 --> 00:49:44,940 That house was in complete disarray. 950 00:49:45,024 --> 00:49:47,776 It-it does seem like they were desperate for money. 951 00:49:47,860 --> 00:49:49,153 Here. 952 00:50:02,291 --> 00:50:03,876 They had the telltale signs 953 00:50:03,959 --> 00:50:06,629 of two people that were living daily high on meth. 954 00:50:06,712 --> 00:50:08,923 I mean, they did a tour of their apartment 955 00:50:09,006 --> 00:50:11,050 showing off their counterfeiting process. 956 00:50:11,133 --> 00:50:12,801 No one does that unless you're just 957 00:50:12,885 --> 00:50:14,595 completely out of your mind on meth. 958 00:50:14,678 --> 00:50:17,765 I'm all about drug use. I love drugs. 959 00:50:17,848 --> 00:50:20,142 You know, a little theft by deception, sure, 960 00:50:20,226 --> 00:50:22,353 I've done that as well, but guess what? 961 00:50:22,436 --> 00:50:24,480 I'm not a computer programmer. 962 00:50:25,356 --> 00:50:27,483 This was something he was totally into. 963 00:50:27,566 --> 00:50:30,110 He was really good with computers. 964 00:50:30,194 --> 00:50:32,613 He was really good with online stuff 965 00:50:32,696 --> 00:50:35,324 and figuring all kinds of stuff out. 966 00:50:36,450 --> 00:50:39,495 I kept feeling that he was going to turn on me 967 00:50:39,578 --> 00:50:42,498 and try and throw me under the bus for everything. 968 00:50:42,581 --> 00:50:44,750 And so there was-- there was a time 969 00:50:44,833 --> 00:50:48,003 when I started documenting, um, his criminal activity, 970 00:50:48,087 --> 00:50:51,757 so, uh, particularly the counterfeiting and stuff. 971 00:51:26,959 --> 00:51:28,961 We'd made all this counterfeit money 972 00:51:29,044 --> 00:51:30,796 and we're going up to Chicago 973 00:51:30,879 --> 00:51:33,215 to turn counterfeit money into real money. 974 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:53,110 We got to the, um, Hyatt Hotel on Wacker Drive in Chicago 975 00:51:53,193 --> 00:51:57,573 and I asked Joey if he had any ones to tip the valet with. 976 00:51:59,450 --> 00:52:01,785 And then I got change for the valet. 977 00:52:02,995 --> 00:52:07,541 He passed off a bill to, uh, the guy in broad daylight 978 00:52:07,625 --> 00:52:09,168 up there, the valet. 979 00:52:10,044 --> 00:52:12,129 He was so spun out on meth 980 00:52:12,212 --> 00:52:15,257 that he grabbed stuff that he wasn't-- basically trash. 981 00:52:15,341 --> 00:52:17,384 He grabbed some tester bills 982 00:52:17,468 --> 00:52:19,428 that had been washed 983 00:52:19,511 --> 00:52:22,556 and scrubbed and printed on over and over again 984 00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,643 to test the color and passed it to the valet. 985 00:52:25,726 --> 00:52:28,145 Breaking news. This is WAVE 3 News. 986 00:52:28,228 --> 00:52:31,023 Two Louisville men are behind bars in Chicago now 987 00:52:31,106 --> 00:52:34,109 after police found $50,000 in counterfeit cash 988 00:52:34,193 --> 00:52:35,527 in their hotel room. 989 00:52:35,611 --> 00:52:37,655 I couldn't believe it was the same Jeff I knew. 990 00:52:37,738 --> 00:52:40,366 -It didn't look like him. -He didn't look happy. 991 00:52:40,449 --> 00:52:43,452 He looked angry. Well, obviously, he just got... 992 00:52:43,535 --> 00:52:45,454 -Arrested. -...arrested. 993 00:52:45,537 --> 00:52:48,332 They also found weapons, fake IDs, 994 00:52:48,415 --> 00:52:50,709 and a suspected date rape drug. 995 00:52:50,793 --> 00:52:52,711 I grew up a sheltered life. 996 00:52:52,795 --> 00:52:55,714 I don't know that much about drugs or anything. 997 00:52:55,798 --> 00:52:58,676 And, you know, people would say, "You didn't know? 998 00:52:58,759 --> 00:53:00,552 I mean, he's always sniffling." 999 00:53:00,636 --> 00:53:03,347 I'm like, "Well, he said he had allergies." You know? 1000 00:53:08,769 --> 00:53:12,314 We get arrested and I knew that my-my bail would be higher 1001 00:53:12,398 --> 00:53:14,525 because I had a felony record. 1002 00:53:14,608 --> 00:53:16,860 And so I told the detectives 1003 00:53:16,944 --> 00:53:18,862 that he didn't know anything about it, 1004 00:53:18,946 --> 00:53:20,322 that it was all my stuff. 1005 00:53:20,406 --> 00:53:23,409 I was trying to get him released on a lower bond 1006 00:53:23,492 --> 00:53:26,453 so that he could come and bail me out. 1007 00:53:28,664 --> 00:53:31,250 So the funny thing about being scared of me 1008 00:53:31,333 --> 00:53:33,752 doesn't really hold water because, you know, I mean, 1009 00:53:33,836 --> 00:53:36,338 I was basically someplace where I couldn't get to him. 1010 00:53:36,422 --> 00:53:39,091 I couldn't do anything, he could have left me in jail. 1011 00:53:40,551 --> 00:53:42,886 So, anyways, he came back 1012 00:53:42,970 --> 00:53:45,931 and paid $20,000 to get me out of jail. 1013 00:53:53,647 --> 00:53:55,315 I come back to Louisville with him 1014 00:53:55,399 --> 00:53:59,361 and it becomes just a-a-a terrible, 1015 00:53:59,445 --> 00:54:03,282 terrible situation where there's no resolution. 1016 00:55:04,510 --> 00:55:05,511 Jase! 1017 00:55:09,306 --> 00:55:11,350 What is wrong with you? 1018 00:55:14,603 --> 00:55:18,232 What did you take or what did I do, Jase? 1019 00:56:09,783 --> 00:56:12,077 911 Operator Walker. Where is your emergency? 1020 00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,037 Please, 1435 South Fourth Street. 1021 00:56:14,121 --> 00:56:15,998 My ex-boyfriend is attacking me in my house. 1022 00:56:16,081 --> 00:56:18,876 -Please come immediately. -Who is attacking your door? 1023 00:56:18,959 --> 00:56:20,502 Joey Banis. 1024 00:56:21,086 --> 00:56:25,465 While I was sleeping off, um, being up days on meth, 1025 00:56:25,549 --> 00:56:28,427 he took my keys, my phone, my wallet. 1026 00:56:29,344 --> 00:56:31,179 Went into the guest bedroom, 1027 00:56:31,263 --> 00:56:34,474 and, um, called 911 1028 00:56:34,558 --> 00:56:37,728 and, uh, took a hammer, banged it on the door, 1029 00:56:37,811 --> 00:56:40,230 and made, you know, background noises. 1030 00:56:40,314 --> 00:56:43,066 Please somebody help. I can't get rid of him. 1031 00:56:43,984 --> 00:56:45,444 I'm scared. 1032 00:56:45,527 --> 00:56:48,572 Told them that his soon-to-be ex-boyfriend 1033 00:56:48,655 --> 00:56:52,242 was trying to kill him-- which I wasn't, I was asleep-- 1034 00:56:52,326 --> 00:56:56,246 and they should break into the house and arrest me. 1035 00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,583 So the domestic run comes out, they make the run, 1036 00:56:59,666 --> 00:57:01,126 separate the parties. 1037 00:57:03,837 --> 00:57:05,631 While they're separated, 1038 00:57:05,714 --> 00:57:08,383 Mundt says to one of the officers 1039 00:57:08,467 --> 00:57:10,510 that Banis killed a guy. 1040 00:57:10,594 --> 00:57:12,846 The officer comes downstairs and tells Banis, 1041 00:57:12,930 --> 00:57:14,723 "Man, your boyfriend must be really mad at you. 1042 00:57:14,806 --> 00:57:17,184 He just accused you of killing somebody." 1043 00:57:17,267 --> 00:57:19,186 Anyways, he won't come out of the bedroom 1044 00:57:19,269 --> 00:57:20,646 until I'm in cuffs. 1045 00:57:20,729 --> 00:57:22,439 When I come out of the bedroom, 1046 00:57:22,522 --> 00:57:25,025 he says, uh, "He's killed someone." 1047 00:57:25,108 --> 00:57:28,111 And at that point I was like, "No, no, no, no, no. 1048 00:57:28,195 --> 00:57:30,405 Yeah, I didn't kill anyone. 1049 00:57:31,073 --> 00:57:32,783 He killed the person. You know, 1050 00:57:32,866 --> 00:57:35,369 and I'll be happy to take you the-- give you the story." 1051 00:57:35,452 --> 00:57:38,163 So I went down to the, uh, homicide department 1052 00:57:38,246 --> 00:57:41,375 and I started giving a statement. 1053 00:57:43,752 --> 00:57:46,088 So he comes down and he tells Lesher 1054 00:57:46,171 --> 00:57:48,215 everything about what happened with this, 1055 00:57:48,298 --> 00:57:50,133 but he puts it all on Mundt. 1056 00:57:50,717 --> 00:57:54,513 Police were definitely not inclined to believe me. 1057 00:57:54,596 --> 00:57:56,431 You're not making this stuff up. 1058 00:57:56,515 --> 00:57:59,768 This is not a lie to get back at him because 1059 00:58:00,852 --> 00:58:03,105 you were arrested for... 1060 00:58:03,188 --> 00:58:05,482 -No. -...a different crime. 1061 00:58:05,565 --> 00:58:08,443 Mundt came in there and, uh, acted at first 1062 00:58:08,527 --> 00:58:10,988 like he didn't know anything about the case 1063 00:58:11,071 --> 00:58:13,532 or the murder or the body or anything. 1064 00:58:13,615 --> 00:58:16,994 And then when he was about to be given a polygraph test, 1065 00:58:17,077 --> 00:58:18,662 he said that he couldn't take it 1066 00:58:18,745 --> 00:58:21,415 because he'd been lying to them all along. 1067 00:58:24,459 --> 00:58:26,336 The one thing I keyed on was, 1068 00:58:26,420 --> 00:58:28,714 Mundt talks about that Banis slit the throat. 1069 00:58:28,797 --> 00:58:31,967 Banis says that Mundt stabbed him in the neck. 1070 00:58:32,050 --> 00:58:33,885 Doesn't talk about slitting the throat. 1071 00:58:33,969 --> 00:58:36,054 If you look at the autopsy report, 1072 00:58:36,138 --> 00:58:37,681 it looks like they're stab wounds. 1073 00:58:37,764 --> 00:58:39,391 -Stab wounds. -Not-not a slit. 1074 00:58:42,602 --> 00:58:45,313 That might seem like not a big deal. 1075 00:58:45,397 --> 00:58:47,482 I think that is a huge deal. 1076 00:58:47,566 --> 00:58:49,693 Why is that not part of the story? 1077 00:58:49,776 --> 00:58:52,154 I don't know. You all are writing a story, not me. 1078 00:58:54,031 --> 00:58:55,574 I didn't write the story. 1079 00:58:56,867 --> 00:58:59,411 I'm literally just reading what's in the case file. 1080 00:59:00,454 --> 00:59:02,372 I've learned over the years, 1081 00:59:02,456 --> 00:59:04,374 you know, my time in homicide 1082 00:59:04,458 --> 00:59:07,919 and work in narcotics, that, 1083 00:59:08,003 --> 00:59:10,464 your motive, you don't really have to kill somebody 1084 00:59:10,547 --> 00:59:12,758 to rob 'em of their dope and their money. 1085 00:59:12,841 --> 00:59:15,469 Especially like, as brutal as what that was. 1086 00:59:15,552 --> 00:59:18,013 This was extremely personal. 1087 00:59:18,096 --> 00:59:19,431 Why would you do this? 1088 00:59:19,514 --> 00:59:21,767 I mean, there is no real motive for this. 1089 00:59:21,850 --> 00:59:24,311 Jamie was a low-level drug dealer 1090 00:59:24,394 --> 00:59:26,021 who probably had a couple hundred dollars 1091 00:59:26,104 --> 00:59:27,230 on him that night. 1092 00:59:27,314 --> 00:59:28,857 He probably didn't have enough drugs 1093 00:59:28,940 --> 00:59:30,233 to make it through the week. 1094 00:59:31,485 --> 00:59:32,944 We had a theory. 1095 00:59:35,906 --> 00:59:39,367 I mean, the killing occurred during the middle of a sex act. 1096 00:59:40,494 --> 00:59:42,162 I think it was a thrill. 1097 00:59:47,626 --> 00:59:49,961 This is a prepaid collect call from... 1098 00:59:50,045 --> 00:59:52,589 -Joseph Banis. -...an incarcerated individual. 1099 00:59:52,672 --> 00:59:54,132 This call is not private. 1100 00:59:54,216 --> 00:59:56,134 If you believe this should be a private call, 1101 00:59:56,218 --> 00:59:59,221 please hang up, follow facility instructions... 1102 00:59:59,304 --> 01:00:02,557 Ultimately, uh, I mean, it all comes down to this. 1103 01:00:03,517 --> 01:00:05,936 Mundt and-and-and Jamie, 1104 01:00:06,019 --> 01:00:08,480 they were both there to fuck me. 1105 01:00:10,941 --> 01:00:12,400 We had a couple three-ways. 1106 01:00:12,484 --> 01:00:14,236 Um, I was normally restrained. 1107 01:00:14,319 --> 01:00:17,072 Um, they were both normally, you know, topping me. 1108 01:00:19,699 --> 01:00:23,495 Jase had actual rope that he would use to tie people up. 1109 01:00:24,788 --> 01:00:28,583 He knew a zillion different rope-tying tricks 1110 01:00:28,667 --> 01:00:30,335 and knots and all that type of stuff. 1111 01:00:31,461 --> 01:00:34,798 And, um, it was fun. 1112 01:00:34,881 --> 01:00:37,843 But Mundt had to go to work in the morning, 1113 01:00:37,926 --> 01:00:40,470 and it infuriated him 1114 01:00:40,554 --> 01:00:43,557 that Jamie and I stayed behind 1115 01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,143 in his, Mundt's house, 1116 01:00:46,226 --> 01:00:49,396 um, in his bed, uh, 1117 01:00:49,479 --> 01:00:52,691 continuing to get high and have sex 1118 01:00:52,774 --> 01:00:54,943 while he had to go to work. 1119 01:00:55,026 --> 01:00:58,238 That was the-the, uh, seed that germinated 1120 01:00:58,321 --> 01:01:01,908 into, uh, the jealousy that caused the murder. 1121 01:01:02,617 --> 01:01:05,620 When the murder actually occurred, I was restrained. 1122 01:01:08,582 --> 01:01:12,252 You know, when I was tied up and-and Jamie was asking me, 1123 01:01:12,335 --> 01:01:14,337 "Joey, help me," and I couldn't help him, 1124 01:01:14,421 --> 01:01:17,716 I mean, I've had nightmares about that for years. 1125 01:01:17,799 --> 01:01:20,468 I was plagued by the sound of his voice 1126 01:01:20,552 --> 01:01:21,970 asking me to help him. 1127 01:01:22,053 --> 01:01:24,306 And, you know, I-I just-- 1128 01:01:25,473 --> 01:01:27,058 I couldn't do anything. 1129 01:01:27,767 --> 01:01:29,603 You have one minute left. 1130 01:01:29,686 --> 01:01:31,438 Ultimately, my friend died, 1131 01:01:31,521 --> 01:01:33,106 'cause Jamie was my friend. 1132 01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:35,692 Um, and I feel terrible about that. 1133 01:01:39,738 --> 01:01:41,239 I have pictures of him, 1134 01:01:41,823 --> 01:01:44,326 I think seven days before the murder, 1135 01:01:44,409 --> 01:01:45,911 looking over my shoulder. 1136 01:01:45,994 --> 01:01:47,454 We were both smiling 1137 01:01:47,537 --> 01:01:50,790 and just like, we were friends. 1138 01:01:53,460 --> 01:01:56,963 I hate Mundt because, ultimately, 1139 01:01:58,381 --> 01:02:01,927 he killed Jamie and really destroyed my life too. 1140 01:02:02,510 --> 01:02:03,803 -Um-- -Goodbye. 1141 01:02:09,976 --> 01:02:13,647 Why do you think Joey asked me to reach out to you? 1142 01:02:13,730 --> 01:02:15,982 Well... I guess because 1143 01:02:16,066 --> 01:02:18,151 he wanted someone to paint him in a good light. 1144 01:02:20,195 --> 01:02:22,113 Here's what's fucked up. 1145 01:02:22,197 --> 01:02:24,574 How long was that body there? 1146 01:02:24,658 --> 01:02:25,992 Seven months? 1147 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,454 And neither one of them 1148 01:02:29,537 --> 01:02:31,623 took the opportunity 1149 01:02:31,706 --> 01:02:34,501 at some point to say, "Hey, 1150 01:02:34,584 --> 01:02:36,544 I'm living with crazy, 1151 01:02:36,628 --> 01:02:39,756 and, uh, and there's a dead guy in my basement." 1152 01:02:41,633 --> 01:02:42,968 Neither one of 'em? 1153 01:02:44,261 --> 01:02:45,470 Fuck both of them. 1154 01:02:47,597 --> 01:02:51,351 What everyone forgets is that Jamie Carroll... 1155 01:02:52,435 --> 01:02:55,814 died, and so I decided, like, "I'm gonna do it for him 1156 01:02:55,897 --> 01:02:57,899 'cause he doesn't have a voice, and I do." 1157 01:03:00,652 --> 01:03:02,487 From what I've gathered, the body 1158 01:03:02,570 --> 01:03:05,407 was very well maintained because of the lime. 1159 01:03:05,490 --> 01:03:07,242 I'm glad it preserved him. 1160 01:03:07,325 --> 01:03:10,787 I'm glad he raised enough hell from that little box so... 1161 01:03:10,870 --> 01:03:13,039 we could get him out. 1162 01:03:13,123 --> 01:03:16,376 Get him brought to where he could be laid to rest properly. 1163 01:03:25,218 --> 01:03:26,720 I'm baffled. 1164 01:03:26,803 --> 01:03:28,179 I'm confused. 1165 01:03:29,097 --> 01:03:31,266 I don't know what made my friend enter a room 1166 01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:34,811 with two people that she barely knew, 1167 01:03:37,314 --> 01:03:38,606 and not come out. 1168 01:03:43,278 --> 01:03:45,322 Jamie Carroll should be alive, 1169 01:03:45,405 --> 01:03:47,324 and it doesn't matter, drag queen, 1170 01:03:47,407 --> 01:03:49,034 drug dealer, or whatever. 1171 01:03:51,661 --> 01:03:54,497 I can be in a situation that I think... 1172 01:03:55,332 --> 01:03:57,250 I'm just doing what I do, 1173 01:03:59,419 --> 01:04:01,296 and not be aware 1174 01:04:01,379 --> 01:04:04,215 of the danger that might exist 1175 01:04:04,299 --> 01:04:07,594 because of the toxicity in the relationship, 1176 01:04:08,094 --> 01:04:11,389 and then find myself in a really dangerous situation. 1177 01:04:14,392 --> 01:04:16,895 Yeah. That's the lie we tell when we say it's just about 1178 01:04:16,978 --> 01:04:19,064 those two people or it's none of my business. 1179 01:04:21,358 --> 01:04:23,693 What happens behind those closed doors 1180 01:04:23,777 --> 01:04:26,654 finds its way into public spaces 1181 01:04:27,322 --> 01:04:29,282 and so it puts us all at risk. 1182 01:04:30,658 --> 01:04:32,327 That's the saddest part. 1183 01:04:35,622 --> 01:04:37,791 The monsters really do exist. 1184 01:04:47,759 --> 01:04:49,177 But we create our own, 1185 01:04:52,305 --> 01:04:53,598 with the drugs 1186 01:04:55,183 --> 01:04:58,228 and the lies and the bullshit that we choose to live. 1187 01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:15,036 "There were many things I did not know, 1188 01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:16,996 did not understand. 1189 01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:18,540 What it all meant. 1190 01:05:19,958 --> 01:05:21,960 Why people did the things they did 1191 01:05:22,043 --> 01:05:24,129 or said the things they said. 1192 01:05:25,797 --> 01:05:30,176 What lingered behind the walls of 1435 South Fourth Street 1193 01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:35,849 and what really happened in the dark basement. 1194 01:05:35,932 --> 01:05:41,146 What lurked in the dark room found in every human mind."