1 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:19,959 Ladies and gentlemen, the fabulous Rolf Harris! 2 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,639 ♪ I'm Jake the Peg Diddly-diddly-diddly-lum ♪ 3 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,920 ♪ With this extra leg ♪ 4 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,600 {\an8}Entertaining is like a drug. The greatest drug in the world. 5 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,040 {\an8}The public adulation, the applause. 6 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,559 It's hard to give up these things if you're born to be a show-off. 7 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,119 Rolf's autobiography tells us the story 8 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,240 that he wants the world to believe about him. 9 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:52,999 - The lovable larrikin. - Okay, knock that off. 10 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,319 The people's painter. 11 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,040 Can you tell what it is yet? 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,999 It's been said of him that after Skippy, he's the world's best-loved pet Aussie. 13 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:06,200 But the most authentic account of him is by the people he impacted. 14 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:09,880 That's around about the age that… 15 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,320 I was when Rolf Harris assaulted me. 16 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:16,960 I was 11 years old. 17 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,879 I was really like, what's going on here? 18 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,359 My whole life was, don't let anybody know. 19 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,560 It took 27 years for me to come forward to anybody about it. 20 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,159 I first came into contact with Victim A 21 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:35,920 when she started to disclose that she had been abused as a child by Rolf Harris. 22 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,399 The victim had been a family friend of the Harris family. 23 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,080 She just thought, this is enough. 24 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,080 {\an8}For years, I'd been waiting for someone to tap me on the shoulder and say… 25 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:47,959 we found you out. 26 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,319 The Australian entertainer Rolf Harris has pleaded 27 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,800 not guilty to charges of indecent assault. 28 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,479 The danger was they simply would refuse to believe that he was guilty. 29 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,799 The nice Mr Harris would never touch up children. 30 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,399 I think he's just one of the worst criminals 31 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,679 that I've ever been in a courtroom with. 32 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,159 The police investigation Operation Yewtree 33 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,520 was set up to investigate this man. 34 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,440 After the death of Jimmy Savile, who was a well-known entertainer, 35 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,520 it emerged that Savile was a predatory paedophile. 36 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,439 And that led to a police investigation called Operation Yewtree. 37 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,119 When Operation Yewtree first started… 38 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,160 information came in in a number of different ways. 39 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,960 {\an8}There were thousands of messages… 40 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,640 {\an8}intelligence, allegations that all needed to be gone through carefully. 41 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,720 It was a really staggering task and one that I don't think any of us had… 42 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,839 faced quite in the same way before. 43 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,679 There were names that were coming forward that were already surreal, 44 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,879 {\an8}I suppose, were the terms that were used. People who had been in the public focus, 45 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,759 stood for family entertainment and good clean kind of wholesome fun. 46 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,799 I'd watched him on his cartoon program. My family loved him. 47 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,879 ♪ They've been gone, And the shirts that they were wearing… ♪ 48 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,119 - ♪ What? ♪ - ♪ Yes ♪ 49 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,159 So to have his name, Rolf Harris, 50 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,639 put in with that, to me, was a huge surprise. 51 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Savile was dead. He couldn't be prosecuted. 52 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,359 There was now a feeling that Rolf Harris should not be allowed 53 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,560 {\an8}to get away with this, that he shouldn't go to his grave without facing justice. 54 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,880 The police have not done their job properly with Savile… 55 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,640 that maybe they had to do it this time with Harris. 56 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,119 {\an8}We conducted a search of his home address in Bray. 57 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:07,999 {\an8}When we entered that address, 58 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,120 {\an8}the only person who was actually present was his housekeeper. 59 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,320 {\an8}We began searching the address, which was a really kind of large property. 60 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,360 {\an8}Key evidence being found in Rolf's study… 61 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,799 {\an8}copies of his diaries. 62 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,840 {\an8}There was also some letters that we seized, certainly some photos. 63 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:34,360 {\an8}His computer. 64 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,319 {\an8}And they were all reviewed. 65 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,879 The computer that was seized from Harris' study showed to contain 66 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,199 indecent images of children, 67 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,880 which was quite a shocking revelation for the investigation. 68 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,959 I was aware that this story was bubbling away, 69 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:56,519 that there was something going on. 70 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:02,960 {\an8}Rumours started, names started circulating, social media, speculation. 71 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,359 Bray's quite a private neighbourhood. 72 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,560 Rolf's neighbours were not happy to see the press at all. 73 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,719 There were dark looks and glares from the Range Rovers. 74 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,600 When I was lurking outside his house with the press pack… 75 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:27,040 no one at that stage had put in print the name that would go with the rumours. 76 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:33,679 We arranged for an initial interview to take place in a police building 77 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,600 in Wimbledon, southwest London. 78 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,680 {\an8}He was quite arrogant, 79 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,119 {\an8}and I think he thought he would walk out of there 80 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,439 and that would be the end of the matter. 81 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,960 My editors were very keen for me to pin down 82 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,000 Rolf in connection with it, but I couldn't name him. 83 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,239 You can't go into print without really, really knowing, 84 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,199 because this is a big accusation. This is massive. 85 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,040 If you're wrong, the repercussions are extraordinary. 86 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,079 As media interest grew in relation to Harris, 87 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,519 and his name was being mentioned around, 88 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,800 that's when the investigation really started to grow. 89 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,679 {\an8}In Britain, it's very difficult to report allegations 90 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,000 against powerful people with big lawyers. 91 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:29,159 In early 2013, he was arrested, and it wasn't until April 92 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,320 when the Sun decided they were just going to go and run the story anyhow. 93 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,719 Britain's Sun newspaper published 94 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,559 what has been circulating on social media for weeks. 95 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,959 Can I ask you for your reaction to the reports in The Sun newspaper this morning 96 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,920 that you've been arrested on suspicion of sex offences? 97 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,360 - No comment. - No comment? 98 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,359 They keep coming out now, these allegations. 99 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,400 There are more allegations of sexual abuse 100 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,480 emerging against Rolf Harris. 101 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,879 Scotland Yard detectives say they have no comment 102 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,520 about the latest allegations. 103 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,520 All they would confirm is that officers have travelled recently to Australia. 104 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,879 After going through an English winter, what better place to come for a holiday 105 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,080 than the northwest tip of the Northern Territory in Australia. 106 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,600 We're in Darwin, that's Darwin just over there. 107 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,599 {\an8}We were back in Australia as a family to film Rolf's Walkabout, 108 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,520 {\an8}the first documentary series to be shot in colour by the ABC. 109 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:49,360 {\an8}When I read Rolf Harris's autobiography, I think he's cultivated… 110 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,559 {\an8}an image as Mr Australia, this almost lovable, 111 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,480 adventurous character of outback Australia. 112 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:00,760 Oh, listen to the echo. Oh! 113 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,360 That every child would want to be around. 114 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,040 I've been completely anonymous about this. 115 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,640 It takes a lot to be able to talk about it. 116 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,120 {\an8}Just get rid of, thank God I haven't got make-up on. 117 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:30,759 I haven't spoken out to media or even the friends that I grew up with 118 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,199 about it because I just didn't feel comfortable, 119 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:35,960 I didn't want to upset anyone. 120 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,360 I should have been braver maybe and said something when he was alive, 121 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,160 you know, I… 122 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:46,120 but I didn't. 123 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:49,120 - But you are now. - Hmm. 124 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:55,680 - Are you nervous? - Yeah, very nervous. 125 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,239 It's just as well he's not here, you know, he's dancing down in hell. 126 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,960 So, you know, he's sweating more than I am. So… 127 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,240 That's around about the age that… 128 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,800 I was when Rolf Harris assaulted me. 129 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,320 I was 11 years old. 130 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,920 I really wish that I'd been taught to push someone away from me. 131 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,799 Rolf, you've been to many remote areas of Australia… 132 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,959 You didn't call me Ralph by any chance, did you then? 133 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:34,959 Keep going, no don't stop, that's the best bit. 134 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,560 It's Rolf, but yeah, I really hate it. 135 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,119 Everyone else refers to him as Rolf, Rolf Harris, 136 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,800 but I just automatically think of him as Mr Harris. 137 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,759 When I was young, to me an adult was someone 138 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,519 that I needed to treat as an adult with respect. 139 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,520 {\an8}I was staying at a friend's house. 140 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:10,000 {\an8}Her parents were good friends with Rolf Harris. 141 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,280 {\an8}I came downstairs and I was in my jammies… 142 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,680 …and Mr Harris was downstairs. 143 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,719 {\an8}I got towards the bottom of the stairs and he said to me, 144 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:27,880 "Oh, hello… 145 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,800 who are you"? And I said, "Oh, I'm… 146 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,600 Christine". And he said, "Oh, and how old are you"? 147 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,159 And I said, "Oh, I'm 11". 148 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,359 And he said, "Oh, just coming into womanhood". 149 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,719 He said, "Well, then allow me to be the first one 150 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,200 to introduce you to womanhood". 151 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,240 And so he said, "Come over here". Pulled me towards him. 152 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:56,480 And then… he then bent his head down and… 153 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:03,559 started kissing me and stuck his tongue down my throat. 154 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:06,919 And I was just frozen, absolutely. 155 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,039 And then he was just stroking me up and down and tongue kissing me. 156 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,759 And then he just stepped back and he said, "Well, welcome to womanhood". 157 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,720 "Now you'll know what that's all about". 158 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,840 I told my parents what Rolf Harris did to me. 159 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:27,439 They didn't believe me. 160 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,520 They said, "Oh, you and your stories, Christine". 161 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,760 I thought, if my parents don't believe me, why would anyone else believe me? 162 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,680 I have downplayed it a lot. And I feel kind of like… 163 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,880 that I'm wasting people's time saying even anything about it. 164 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,920 But, you know, the whole thing has left 165 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,200 a mark on the way that I am as a person, even now. 166 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:05,479 I feel unsafe. I feel vulnerable. I feel terrified 167 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,320 that something's going to happen that I'm going to have no control over. 168 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,039 It's a bit like a jack-in-the-box that keeps coming out 169 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,280 and frightening you each time. 170 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,240 We had very limited time working in Australia. 171 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,280 {\an8}There was absolutely a race against time and with minimal resources. 172 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,440 It's always difficult to investigate any kind of offence that's historic. 173 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,279 {\an8}You're looking for other witnesses who can corroborate 174 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,639 {\an8}what was happening at that time. 175 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,919 And over the period of ten, 20, 30 years, maybe in 40 years 176 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,639 when these offences were taking place. 177 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,320 Sing us a song while we wait. Come on. 178 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,719 ♪ O ka re ka re a… ♪ 179 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,719 Rolf Harris admits he's no expert on child abuse. 180 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,759 But feels compelled to use his showbiz pull to help draw attention 181 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,240 to what he sees as a major social problem. 182 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,999 I mean, I just started to be aware of the enormity of this problem. 183 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,519 Because it's like treading on eggs without breaking the shells. 184 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,000 It's such a taboo subject. Everybody is so… 185 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,079 touchy on it. 186 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,880 Statistics here in New Zealand, one woman in four… 187 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,320 was sexually molested before she was 16. 188 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:34,240 One in four. 189 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,359 He felt that was his protection. You've got the guy who's the celebrity, 190 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,360 who's the family favourite. He's actually a paedophile. 191 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,279 He's actually a monster. It's insane. 192 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,080 It's almost like Black Mirror, isn't it? It's almost, you know… 193 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,320 it's the ultimate twist ending, really. 194 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,479 I think it gets all the points in that I was after 195 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,440 to try and tell the whole story of the construction of the thing. 196 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,279 Don't put any powder on me, will you? Because I'm a man. 197 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:02,879 And don't get me looking too flash. 198 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,199 {\an8}Makeup artists and wardrobe, we're the only ones that actually touch performers. 199 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,640 {\an8}So we're crossing that aura, if you like, that boundary. 200 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,760 {\an8}So I'm 23, 24 at the time. This is at the beginning of my career. 201 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,480 I was so excited. I was going to be working with Rolf Harris. 202 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,520 I was a little girl. I watched him on the wobbleboard. 203 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,319 I told my parents I was going to be working with him, 204 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,959 my friends, like, "Oh my goodness, it's going to be huge". 205 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,199 On the day, I was allocated 206 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,680 a little makeup room in the Channel 7 studios. 207 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,200 Rolf sat in my chair. 208 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,759 While I'm touching his face, 209 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,239 he gets his hand and he drops it down underneath the chair. 210 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,280 And I'm standing on this side of him. 211 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:55,520 And he ran his arm up and his hand up my leg inside my shorts. 212 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,200 I kind of felt like he was trying to feel my knickers. 213 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,720 It gave me a really huge shock. 214 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,439 I did ask him not to touch me, but I didn't do it loudly. 215 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,959 The number one rule for me 216 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,719 as a makeup artist is we don't upset the talent. 217 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,360 From the makeup room, we then walked into the studio. 218 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,239 Now, there was a director there who was around the same age as Rolf. 219 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,560 What are we doing? 220 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,160 The director and him are talking about me and what I looked like. 221 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,399 What my legs look like and how shapely they were 222 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,240 and what my face looked like and what my body was like. 223 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,599 Each time it was time to powder his nose, 224 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,799 he would put both hands up the side of my legs 225 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,919 and run them straight up inside my shorts. 226 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,719 He would pull me towards him and try and crotch grind me. 227 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,480 Now, I'm in a room full of men. 228 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,999 The cameraman, the lighting guy, 229 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,079 the sound guy, there's all these men there. 230 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:09,439 Nobody said anything. Not one man asked him to stop. 231 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,320 The director egged him on. 232 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,479 He had taken carte blanche for six hours with running his hands up my legs, 233 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,839 on my thighs, touching me, trying to crotch grind me. 234 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,640 At the very end of the day, I went in to see the lady who was running makeup. 235 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,680 I said to her, I have just had the worst day with a dirty old man. 236 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,359 And she said to me, "Oh, I thought you knew". 237 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,520 And I'm like, "I knew what"? 238 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,079 She said, "Oh, his nickname is the octopus". 239 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,759 Now, this one, you'd have him just resting his, 240 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,120 this little tentacle on his walking stick, which he carries there. 241 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,999 She said, I have a message from the Channel 7 executives. 242 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:59,399 She said, they just wanted to commend you on how you had conducted yourself. 243 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,919 They had all watched me get abused and assaulted, 244 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,360 and they were very happy with how I had behaved. 245 00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:16,199 Rolf Harris was not passive during this time. 246 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,879 He had people who were working behind the scenes 247 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,960 to try and protect his interests. 248 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,640 He had plenty of money. He had plenty of friends. 249 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,519 He could afford the best advice. 250 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,160 He was not just passively waiting for this to happen. 251 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,439 His team started to try and find dirt on me. 252 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:47,319 So they would send private detectives to my family, to my neighbours. 253 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,399 They subpoenaed all my medical records 254 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:55,240 {\an8}to make out that I was a nutcase, you know, crazy, a liar. 255 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,400 Anything that would put me in a bad light. 256 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,080 Any time we tried to speak to any witness that we found… 257 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,040 we'd speak to them. 258 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,879 And then the next phone call we would get would be from Rolf's solicitors, 259 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,000 saying that, you know, if you want to speak to this person, 260 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,799 then you have to come through us. 261 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,599 We're going to try and control that element of the investigation around you. 262 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,520 Bruce is, in fact, in the audience. Hi, Bruce. Welcome. 263 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:26,919 {\an8}Bruce Harris is Rolf's older brother and was also his manager for many years. 264 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,719 He's your little brother, isn't he? 265 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,359 ]Everywhere I went, I couldn't get rid of him. 266 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,959 He called me and he said, "Well, you know, Rolf, 267 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,079 you know this couldn't possibly have happened". 268 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,039 I felt that I was being coerced to say he couldn't have done it. 269 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,680 And that he was trying to get me to testify for the defence. 270 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,760 And I just said, I cannot possibly say that it didn't happen. 271 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:54,199 Then I'd be disbelieving Tonya and I'd be calling her a liar 272 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,959 and I was not prepared to do that. 273 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,559 I believed her and I wanted to support her. 274 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,040 And the last thing in the world I was going to do was… 275 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:05,959 call her a liar. 276 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,959 So by the time I walked into that courtroom, 277 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,759 I was furious with him. 278 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,519 Australian entertainer Rolf Harris has been charged 279 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,879 by British police with numerous counts of indecent assault 280 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,280 against teenage girls and of the making indecent images of a child. 281 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,599 Rolf Harris faced court 282 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,640 and dozens of cameras, making no comment. 283 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,199 Australian entertainer Rolf Harris has pleaded not guilty 284 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:51,519 to charges of indecent assault. 285 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,359 When I was told that the defendant in this case was Rolf Harris, 286 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:22,079 I thought I have absolutely no chance of getting a conviction of this case 287 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,440 because he was universally adored. 288 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,520 {\an8}The difficulty in prosecuting historic sex offences 289 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:37,119 {\an8}is it often boils down to one person's word against another. 290 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,720 A celebrity or a victim. 291 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,799 In this case, there were ten women, 292 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,919 all of whom made allegations against Rolf Harris. 293 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,159 Many of those allegations were completely unknown 294 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:57,840 to the other before they made them. 295 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:04,679 And despite that, the majority of them had strikingly similar features, 296 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,959 which would have made it the most remarkable coincidence 297 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,960 had they all just invented them. 298 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,680 As the trial began, Rolf's defence team 299 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,280 {\an8}decided to present the jury with… 300 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,360 {\an8}the entertainer… 301 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:35,119 {\an8}that they knew and loved, the very famous man, Rolf Harris. 302 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:44,400 And so they gave him a sort of "tour de celebrity" in the witness box. 303 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,199 {\an8}If people were going to look at me when I walked into the room, 304 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,960 {\an8}I might as well give them a good reason. 305 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,560 And at one point, he was asked about his song, "Jake the Peg". 306 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,679 And he started singing a few bars of "Jake the Peg" 307 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,239 to the jury from the witness box. 308 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,319 {\an8}♪ I'm Jake the Peg Diddly diddly diddly lum ♪ 309 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,599 {\an8}♪ With his extra leg Diddly diddly diddly lum ♪ 310 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,439 And as I looked over to the jury, 311 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,120 several members of the jury appeared to be… 312 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,439 in awe, captivated by his celebrity. 313 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,360 When celebrities are involved, there's a syndrome. 314 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,679 Firstly, people think they know you. 315 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,879 The nice Mr Harris would never touch up children. 316 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,639 And the danger was they simply would refuse to believe, 317 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,199 whatever the evidence, that he was guilty. 318 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:48,040 Thank you. 319 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,919 At the trial, there were four main victims 320 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,240 {\an8}that were presented within the prosecution. 321 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,479 {\an8}The offences that had taken place in the UK. 322 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,000 In addition to that evidence, there were six character witnesses. 323 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:16,559 {\an8}Their testimony was to show that these events were not isolated one-off events, 324 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,920 {\an8}but they were a pattern of conduct across time and place. 325 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,160 {\an8}The key victim, known as Victim A, 326 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,839 {\an8}was a close personal friend of his daughter, 327 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,640 Bindi Harris, and a childhood friend. 328 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,480 The abuse had begun when she was 13 years old. 329 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,200 Rolf Harris was perceived at that time as being a national treasure. 330 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,599 A man that works predominantly with children. 331 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,479 {\an8}Now, here we are at a place 332 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,679 {\an8}where most of us have learnt to swim, at a swimming pool. 333 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:58,639 That produces public safety videos in relation to the protection of children. 334 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,119 {\an8}Oh, could you hang onto those for me for a minute? 335 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:02,920 {\an8}I'm just going to go in with them on. I want you to watch closely 336 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,719 {\an8}and see how many things you think I'm doing wrong here. 337 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,679 {\an8}Right, here we go. 338 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,640 {\an8}He was in a position of trust. 339 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,159 When Victim A was 13 years old, 340 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,479 the families by this stage knew each other very well, 341 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:25,159 and Rolf Harris invited Victim A to travel with him 342 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,919 and his daughter to Hawaii and Australia. 343 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,039 And because Rolf Harris was trusted, the family were delighted 344 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,480 to allow their daughter to travel with the Harris family. 345 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,680 Rolf Harris came into her room after she'd come out of the shower, 346 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,959 and he started by a bear hug, which was his MO, if you like, 347 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,159 and then started touching Victim A more seriously, 348 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,639 culminating in him digitally penetrating her vagina. 349 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,519 The alleged victim says she allowed herself to be abused by Harris 350 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,800 until the age of 29, having been groomed like a pet. 351 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,199 Rolf Harris' defence was that 352 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,079 there had been consensual sexual activity between them 353 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:19,559 when she was an adult, but that the allegations against him 354 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,679 that related to her as a child had simply never happened. 355 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,639 {\an8}There were several photographs 356 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,560 {\an8}and video footage put before the jury of Victim A. 357 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,280 {\an8}Rolf Harris himself took some video footage 358 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,800 {\an8}of Victim A and Bindi by a pool… 359 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,440 {\an8}and he honed in, not on his own daughter, 360 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:51,040 {\an8}but on Victim A, who was wearing what he called a flesh-coloured bikini. 361 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,920 {\an8}And much of the filming itself had quite a prurient quality. 362 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,799 {\an8}And Mr Harris admitted in court 363 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:09,080 that he had complimented Witness A about her flesh-coloured bathing suit, 364 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,560 and I asked him about that, and I said that when you compliment… 365 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,999 a woman and say that's a nice bikini, 366 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:22,200 what you're actually saying is you've got a very nice body, and he agreed with that. 367 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,159 And then I suggested that he was complimenting her on her body 368 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,280 because he found her sexually attractive… 369 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,000 and he agreed with that, and then I asked him… 370 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,800 to remember that she was 13 years old at the time… 371 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,200 and he agreed with that. 372 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,560 I mean, you could have heard a pin drop. 373 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,040 You know, it was such a stupid thing for him to admit… 374 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,159 but he did. 375 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,799 The court heard that he was a regular visitor to pornographic sites 376 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,320 with names including Young Teen Girls and My Little Nieces. 377 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,520 {\an8}When we initially had gone to search Rolf Harris' home address, 378 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,640 {\an8}We seized copies of his diaries, and they were all reviewed. 379 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,079 {\an8}One of the dates in particular in the diary 380 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,639 showed that he was taking part in the Queen's Jubilee celebrations… 381 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,959 …and on the day he was doing that, 382 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,440 he was also looking at indecent images of children on the computer. 383 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:49,400 In his defence, Rolf Harris said that the housekeeper had seen his grandson 384 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:55,200 in his study looking at possibly pornography on the computer, 385 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:56,999 and that may be an excuse 386 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,680 as to why there was these indecent images on the computer at that time. 387 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,440 He tried to blame his own grandson for these offences, yeah. 388 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,199 It just kind of goes to show the lengths of how far he was prepared to go, 389 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,759 and also how far his legal team were prepared to go 390 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,479 to distance himself from those images. 391 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,400 I was recently turned 15 when he assaulted me. 392 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,320 I was on the stand for two days giving evidence. 393 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,320 It took a lot out of me. 394 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,840 My whole life was, don't let anybody know. 395 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,280 It took 27 years for me to come forward to anybody about it. 396 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,759 {\an8}I knew that that was the first and only time 397 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,239 {\an8}that people are going to hear in a courtroom where it matters 398 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,919 what he did, and he can be held to account. 399 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,640 That's the only place it matters. 400 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:05,680 There was no stopping me. 401 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,599 Rolf Harris' defence was that those that had spoken out against him 402 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,439 were just gold diggers, that they were looking for compensation, 403 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,319 that actually there was no substance to anything 404 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,680 that they had to say, and anything that had happened was just misconstrued. 405 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,160 Rolf Harris' barrister called me a liar… 406 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,279 {\an8}and I turned round to get off the stand and I stared at Rolf Harris. 407 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,960 I was so pissed off at being called a liar. 408 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,520 He literally turned himself round on his swivel chair 409 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:47,199 and looked completely opposite. He refused to make eye contact with me, 410 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,600 and I stared at him the entire way out of there. 411 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,239 An Australian witness told the court 412 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,519 before the entertainer assaulted her, 413 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,280 he said, "I want to be the first one to introduce you to a tongue kiss". 414 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,919 {\an8}The barrister asked me, "Well, what was so bad about that"? 415 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,079 And then, explain what your jammies were, he said. 416 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,599 Did I have something on that was provocative? 417 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,879 And I looked at the jury and then I looked back at him 418 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,800 and I said to him, "I was a child… 419 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,200 I was a child". 420 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,639 In almost all cases 421 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,919 where somebody alleges that they have been sexually abused, 422 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,039 they are either accused of lying 423 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,080 or being the instigator of the sexual abuse. 424 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,599 {\an8}In this case, it was put to Victim A that she was very much the one 425 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,960 {\an8}who wanted to have an affair with Rolf Harris when she was over 18. 426 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,600 When I first encountered Victim A… 427 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,560 she always wanted to preserve her anonymity. 428 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,159 She wanted me to be her spokesperson and I was quite happy to take on that role 429 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,720 because I felt that she needed help. 430 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,840 {\an8}What he said in court about it being consensual… 431 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,920 {\an8}about it only starting when she was 18… 432 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,999 that she knew to be absolutely not the case. 433 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,239 It had been going on for years before that, 434 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,199 four or five years of inappropriate behaviour before she was 18. 435 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,079 Any idea that she was wanting this behaviour to happen 436 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,800 as I know it and I know her, 437 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,480 it was so far removed from reality and the facts. 438 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,559 What was quite interesting evidence was that Rolf Harris 439 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:53,720 wrote a very lengthy letter to Victim A's father. 440 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,879 And when I saw that letter written in his own handwriting, 441 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,559 I knew that that would form an important part 442 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:07,160 of the cross-examination of him. 443 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,640 It's the first time I've actually seen this letter… 444 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,680 that Rolf sent to the father. 445 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,599 "I fondly imagine that everything that had taken place had progressed 446 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,320 from a feeling of love and friendship". 447 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,800 "There was no rape, no physical forcing, brutality or beating that took place". 448 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:31,640 That's a really… 449 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,080 twisted way of looking at it. 450 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,040 No, there wasn't any physical forcing, 451 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,479 but what you've done is you have taken that feeling of love and friendship 452 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,880 and twisted it and used it to your advantage. 453 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,440 I said, "Why do you just never…" Oh, God, that is… 454 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,160 "Why did you never say no"? 455 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,760 I think it's fucking outrageous. I think it's absolutely disgusting. 456 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:04,880 I think any abuser who says to somebody, their victim, why didn't you stop me? 457 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:10,319 It's outrageous. I'm really upset reading this. 458 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:11,560 It makes me really angry. 459 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,919 Then he says this, "When I see the misery I have caused Victim A, 460 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,680 I'm sickened by myself". 461 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,879 "You can't go back and change things that you've done in this life". 462 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,760 "I wish to God I could". 463 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,279 This doesn't fit in at all with Mr Harris's account, 464 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,999 that this was a consensual sexual relationship instigated, 465 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,799 he says, by Victim A. 466 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,559 Why on earth would it have caused her misery? 467 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:44,359 And when he gave evidence, he really had no credible explanation 468 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,119 as to why he'd written a letter like that, 469 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,559 if nothing horrible had happened to Victim A. 470 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:05,520 Rolf Harris would arrive every single day with his wife, with his daughter Bindi. 471 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,040 {\an8}I'm so lucky to have found someone like her. 472 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,280 {\an8}I've often wondered how she'd put up with me for all these years. 473 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,000 {\an8}I've never been a perfect husband. 474 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,039 They would walk extremely slowly, 475 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:27,319 all linking arms so that the cameras could focus on him and his family 476 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,600 for a good five or six minutes. 477 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,800 Rolf, what does it mean to have the family supporting you, Rolf? 478 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,919 And I asked Rolf Harris about this when I cross-examined him 479 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,360 as to how it came about that the three of them were there every day. 480 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:49,040 And Rolf Harris said, "Well, they didn't come together". 481 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,320 He just arrived with Alwen, his wife, 482 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,280 and they met up with Bindi in a cafe around the corner. 483 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,839 And when they were all assembled, they would put on this performance 484 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,239 in order to walk slowly into court. 485 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:09,000 And I asked him why he did that. 486 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,639 And he said that's what his PR people had advised him to do. 487 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,600 I mean, it was so stupid. 488 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,200 It was ridiculous. 489 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:21,800 I think it speaks volumes. 490 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,640 He was the main breadwinner for his daughter, Bindi Harris. 491 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,679 I think she had to do everything she thought was possible 492 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,640 to protect her father, protect his credibility. 493 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,839 Rolf chose to give evidence in his trial, 494 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,600 which is obviously a matter for his defence team whether he did that. 495 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,360 And it became the complete and utter disaster for him. 496 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,439 So after Victim A turned 18, 497 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,800 the relationship, if you want to call it that, continued. 498 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,080 He revealed… 499 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,680 details, particularly in relation to Victim A… 500 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,479 that as the investigative team, we didn't know about. 501 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:16,119 He talked about meeting Victim A and that he had taken her 502 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,240 to a towpath that runs along the river at the back of the house… 503 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:27,279 and that he had got Victim A to perform oral sex on him on that towpath. 504 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,959 His defence team, his barrister, said to him, 505 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,119 "Oh, I imagine this is a place that's quite well covered 506 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,520 and secluded and secrete". 507 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,440 "No, no, no, it was all quite open. People could see". 508 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,439 Another incident he talked about was 509 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,160 while staying at Bindi's house, he had been sat on a sofa 510 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,440 and sat to the left side of him was Bindi Harris, his daughter… 511 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,759 and sat to the right side of him was Victim A, 512 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,160 who had come to visit Bindi. 513 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,600 Because it was cold, they had a blanket across their laps. 514 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:08,920 He had got Victim A to masturbate him whilst his daughter was sat next to him. 515 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:15,360 And you're sat there in a court setting, listening to this story, thinking… 516 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:18,399 what are you saying? 517 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,840 The jury were absolutely horrified by this story. 518 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,719 I think he believed by saying these things, 519 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:27,599 he was almost justifying, exonerating himself. 520 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,080 What, you know, this legitimate relationship. 521 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,160 That story that he told was a turning point for the jury. 522 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,719 The jury in the Rolf Harris sexual abuse trial in London 523 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:52,559 has retired to consider its verdict. 524 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,999 The judge told the jury to put aside any ideas 525 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,159 of typical victim or offender behaviour, saying there was no classic response. 526 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,439 The prosecution has branded him a sinister pervert 527 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,040 with a Jekyll and Hyde side to his character. 528 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,520 The days leading up to the verdict were difficult. 529 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:13,320 Have our victims been believed? 530 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,840 Have we gathered and presented our evidence in the right way? 531 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,400 If we lose, the effects of that… 532 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,040 on a personal level for me, are quite catastrophic. 533 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:32,520 From a professional level, from the Metropolitan Police… 534 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,560 it's catastrophic. 535 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,199 And for the victims, it's catastrophic. 536 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,760 All this time, effort, and most importantly, publicity… 537 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,399 will be for nothing. 538 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,119 It just felt that there was a huge, 539 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,000 huge amount hanging on that jury, that decision. 540 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,840 This was to be the day of reckoning for Rolf Harris. 541 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,240 {\an8}The jury came in, and I remember being sat next to Gary, 542 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,839 {\an8}and I remember saying to him, "Two of the female jurors are crying". 543 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,120 They were in floods of tears. 544 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,680 {\an8}And trying to work out… 545 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,360 {\an8}is it a bad sign for us? 546 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,200 What are they thinking? 547 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,600 {\an8}After an eight-week trial, the jury had made up its mind. 548 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,760 {\an8}In the mid-afternoon, it delivered its unanimous verdicts. 549 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,880 Guilty on all 12 counts. 550 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:35,320 The judge went on. 551 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,519 You took advantage of the trust placed in you because of your celebrity status 552 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,400 to commit the offences against your victims. 553 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,559 In every case, the age gap between you and your victim 554 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,399 was a very considerable one. 555 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,679 You clearly got a thrill from committing the offences 556 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,600 whilst others were present or nearby. 557 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,719 You have shown no remorse for your crimes at all. 558 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:05,959 Your reputation now lies in ruins, but you have no-one to blame but yourself. 559 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,639 The veteran Australian entertainer, Rolf Harris, 560 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,800 has been sentenced to five years and nine months jail by a judge in London. 561 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,960 He left in a prison van, his spectacular fall from grace complete. 562 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,040 Rolf Harris was Operation Yewtrees' biggest success. 563 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,999 When the verdict came in, 564 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,640 Gary called me and said "He was found guilty". 565 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,800 I was so happy and so relieved and so grateful. 566 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,120 After all those decades… 567 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,640 Yeah, you can't get those decades back, 568 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:13,080 but sort of explained maybe why my life didn't go the way people expected it to. 569 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,800 I was Rolf's didge player. I was his driver, security sometimes. 570 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,000 {\an8}Rolf, Alwen, myself and Bindi, we would get together, 571 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,000 {\an8}you know, sometimes four or five times a week, sometimes twice a week… 572 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:46,719 and I hadn't had anything to do with Rolf after his sentencing for quite some time. 573 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:55,360 Yeah, the letter. 574 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,840 Rolf wrote me this from jail. 575 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,960 It's aimed at his accusers, his victims… 576 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,600 who some of were children at the time of his offences towards them. 577 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,839 His words, "Climb up out of the woodwork, babe, from 40 years ago". 578 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,199 "Time's right to grab your chance". 579 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,479 "Clap eyes on a rich celebrity and make the bastard dance". 580 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,159 The letter made me feel sick at the time, and reading it now, 581 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,600 I feel the same fucking way. 582 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,320 He really felt that he was the victim. 583 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:33,719 He really did. 584 00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:36,879 And all of these accusers are liars, all of them. 585 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:56,040 After that awful, awful poem appeared in the paper… 586 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,440 {\an8}Wendy told me she wanted to write one back to him in return. 587 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:07,560 She wrote, "Mr. Harris, you chose me, remember, 40 years ago". 588 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,719 {\an8}- "You put your dirty hand on me… - "…hands on me". 589 00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:12,320 {\an8}"And have not let me go". 590 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,680 {\an8}"Now you are complaining. I can almost hear the wail 591 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,719 whining you are innocent from your cushy jail". 592 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:21,759 The letter. 593 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:26,560 "All this has taken its toll, and it's me who has to swerve". 594 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,760 Yeah, she probably felt, "Oh, he thinks he's had the last say". 595 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,359 I ain't gonna let that happen. 596 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,320 I was a child. I was seven. 597 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,400 A little girl, innocent. 598 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,640 And I think she just went and grabbed the power back from him again. 599 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:45,360 You know? 600 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,600 Not seen this for a while. 601 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,200 Yeah. 602 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,440 Why do you think he did it? 603 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:09,560 Well… 604 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:18,399 I think it's a difficult question to say why did he do it. 605 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,760 You know, you're trying to get into the psyche of someone… 606 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:23,920 who… 607 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,800 is sexually attracted to children. 608 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:36,040 And he was put into a position where his reputation was his protection. 609 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,199 Kids are all from the Bankstown and Newtown Police Boys Clubs there. 610 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,119 How come there's so many girls in a police boys club? 611 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:43,440 It was never like that when I was a kid. 612 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,119 Lucky devils. 613 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,760 And you look nice with the lipstick on your teeth. 614 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:53,120 One of the features of Rolf Harris's predatory behaviour 615 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:59,719 was that he would commit sexual offences against children in a very public place. 616 00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:03,079 It was almost as if the risk was part of the thrill. 617 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,879 I'd like to return to the Rolf Harris case. 618 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,159 And there is a move to extinguish all evidence of him 619 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:16,880 and his art in the public domain. 620 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,919 The memory of his evil is behind the red paint. 621 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,439 I would be urging the council 622 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,679 to remove the plaques and take down the paintings 623 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,359 that we currently have hanging in the council chambers. 624 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,160 On eBay, there's an exodus of Rolf Harris's work. 625 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,159 Rolf Harris's artwork, as I understand it, 626 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,400 is now worth close to nothing. 627 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,399 The British Academy of Film and Television Arts 628 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,280 has taken back its fellowship. 629 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:48,879 He's still got such validation from crowds, from adulation. 630 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,639 He desperately wanted to be admired. 631 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:56,839 His diminished reputation cut him off from almost everything he valued. 632 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,359 Rolf Harris was stripped of an honour granted by the Queen 633 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,040 after he painted her 80th birthday portrait. 634 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:06,879 Well, here we are. 635 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,960 {\an8}Australian victims did not get a trial. 636 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,679 {\an8}No, they've essentially got nothing. 637 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,399 There's been no charges laid. There's been no consequences. 638 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,279 It does feel like a failure of the Australian justice system. 639 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,319 Australia has very strict defamation laws. 640 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,399 In Australia, if they're a really rich, famous actor, 641 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,239 good luck, because it's up to you to prove that you were assaulted. 642 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:37,919 And for me, the defamation laws in our country stop victims, 643 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,680 survivors like me, that don't have money, 644 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,920 coming forward against the big, rich entertainers like your Rolf Harris'. 645 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,439 Rolf Harris received five years and nine months, 646 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,040 but Harris came out after about three years. 647 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:05,080 But that's nothing. 648 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,959 I thought a sexual offender's act should be a bit longer. 649 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,960 No wonder people just, like, don't say anything and just live with it. 650 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,359 What message did it send to all of you? 651 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:19,239 It's almost like you're rewarding the perpetrator, 652 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:23,720 and, like, what sort of message is that really sending to, 653 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,199 like, other victims who maybe haven't come forward yet, 654 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:28,599 you know, to the victim themselves, 655 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,080 who's going to live with this trauma for their whole life? 656 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,159 It's just, like, the opposite of what a justice system is supposed to be, 657 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,280 because it's not just. 658 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:40,439 Just, in my view, I'm, like, incredibly angry to hear that. 659 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,439 It makes me look at that and just think, 660 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,519 there is history of protecting the powerful men. 661 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,240 But why would I go forward? 662 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,760 There is the need to be heard. 663 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,239 The victims cannot move on. 664 00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:59,319 They cannot get to that point without some acknowledgement. 665 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,120 And so I can only say that in this particular case… 666 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,520 there was profound change… 667 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,560 in the life course of those who came forward. 668 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,959 So was it worth it? Did they get justice? 669 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,920 Yeah, it's haunting being back here. 670 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,200 That's the house right there. 671 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,120 The house that Rolf lived in. 672 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,799 So after he came out of jail, this is where he came, 673 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,119 and in its own right, it became a jail. 674 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,599 I know that mentally he had spiralled. 675 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,359 His depression and his fall from grace was so big 676 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,520 that he was very rarely seen out in public anymore. 677 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,640 He lived here as a recluse. 678 00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:11,080 It became a gilded cage, somewhere where he was 679 00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,959 free to walk around the grounds of the house, 680 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,760 but almost like being on house arrest himself. 681 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,120 And he lived out the rest of his days here. 682 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,599 Breaking news overnight. 683 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,919 Convicted paedophile and disgraced entertainer Rolf Harris 684 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,880 has been confirmed as dead at the age of 93. 685 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,240 He died never publicly apologising to his victims. 686 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,319 It took a long time for Rolf Harris and men like him in the UK 687 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,559 to be brought to justice because women were not listened to 688 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,440 and because we were not believed. 689 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,319 Actually being believed and coming forward and having it pursued 690 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:02,480 made me much more powerful, and that power comes from being heard. 691 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,319 The Rolf Harris case 692 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,040 was important because it broke a bit of ground. 693 00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:15,200 That kind of mental process of saying, if I believe this victim, what then? 694 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,880 Which became such a stronger theme during #MeToo. 695 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:22,879 It was part of a wave. 696 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,839 At the very least it was evidence that things were changing. 697 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,759 We will never know the full scale of his abuse. 698 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,320 I shudder to think of how many people's lives he actually destroyed. 699 00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:44,279 Back then people were allowed to get away with things 700 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,839 that they're not allowed to get away with today. 701 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,560 But stories are coming forward more and more. 702 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,200 And it's not just a handful of us. 703 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,440 That's the astonishing thing about it. 704 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,080 This is more powerful than just my story. 705 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:04,960 It's a lot of people's stories.